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NEWTOWN, Conn. (AP) — Opening a long and almost unbearable procession of grief, Newtown began laying its dead to rest Monday, holding funerals for two 6-year-old boys – one a football fan who was buried in a New York Giants jersey and one whose twin sister survived the school shooting rampage.
RELATED: Sandy Hook Elementary Victims' Names Released: Saxophonist Jimmy Greene's Daughter Among Dead
Two funeral homes filled with mourners for Noah Pozner and Jack Pinto, the first of the 20 children killed in last week's massacre to receive funerals. The gunman also killed six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary, and his mother in her home, before committing suicide.
A rabbi presided at Noah's service, and in keeping with Jewish tradition, the boy was laid to rest in a simple brown wooden casket with a Star of David on it.
"If Noah had not been taken from us, he would have become a great man. He would been a wonderful husband and a loving father," Noah's uncle, Alexis Haller, told mourners, according to remarks he provided to The Associated Press. Both services were closed to the news media.
Noah's twin, Arielle, who was assigned to a different classroom, survived the killing frenzy by 20-year-old Adam Lanza, an attack so horrifying that authorities could not say three days later whether the school would ever reopen.
Newtown, a community of 27,000 people 60 miles northeast of New York City, will face many more funerals over the next few days, just as other towns are getting ready for the holidays.
"I feel like we have to get back to normal, but I don't know if there is normal anymore," said Kim Camputo, mother of two children, 5 and 10, who attend a different school. "I'll definitely be dropping them off and picking them up myself for a while."
Beyond Newtown, parents nervously sent their children back to class in a country deeply shaken by the attack, and in a measure of how the tragedy has put people on edge, schools were locked down in at least four places.
As investigators worked to figure out what drove Lanza to lash out with such fury – and why he singled out the school – federal agents said he had fired guns at shooting ranges over the past several years but there was no evidence he did so recently as practice for the rampage.
At Jack's Christian service, hymns rang out from inside the funeral home, where the boy lay in an open casket in the Giants' star wide receiver Victor Cruz's No. 80 jersey. Jack was among the youngest members of a youth wrestling association in Newtown, and dozens of little boys turned up at the service in gray Newtown Wrestling T-shirts.
Ten-year-old Luke Wellman remembered a boy who loved football and wrestling and worshipped Cruz, who played in Sunday's game with "Jack Pinto `My Hero'" written on one of his cleats.
Luke said: "I'm here to support my teammate and friend."
A mourner, Gwendolyn Glover, said the service carried a message of comfort and protection, particularly for other children. "The message was: You're secure now. The worst is over," she said.
At Noah's funeral, the boy was described a smart, funny and mischievous child who loved animals, Mario Brothers video games and tacos.
"I will miss your forceful and purposeful little steps stomping through our house. I will miss your perpetual smile, the twinkle in your dark blue eyes, framed by eyelashes that would be the envy of any lady in this room," his mother, Veronique Pozner, told mourners, according to Haller.
"Most of all, I will miss your visions of your future. You wanted to be a doctor, a soldier, a taco factory manager. It was your favorite food, and no doubt you wanted to ensure that the world kept producing tacos," she said, evoking laughter from the crowd.
She closed by saying: "Momma loves you, little man."
At both funeral homes, as around the country, people wrestled with what steps could and should be taken to prevent something like the massacre from happening again.
"If people want to go hunting, a single-shot rifle does the job, and that does the job to protect your home, too. If you need more than that, I don't know what to say," Ray DiStephan said outside Noah's funeral.
He added: "I don't want to see my kids go to schools that become maximum-security fortresses. That's not the world I want to live in, and that's not the world I want to raise them in."
Around the country, school systems asked police departments to increase patrols Monday and sent messages to parents outlining safety procedures. Teachers steeled themselves for their students' questions and fears.
Richard Cantlupe, an American history teacher at Westglades Middle School in Parkland, Fla., described the Connecticut rampage as "our 9/11 for schoolteachers."
Anxiety ran high enough in Ridgefield, about 20 miles from Newtown, that officials ordered a lockdown at schools after a person deemed suspicious was seen at a train station. Two schools were locked down in South Burlington, Vt., because of an unspecified threat.
Three schools in the Tampa, Fla., area did the same after a bullet was found on the floor of a school bus, and a New Hampshire high school went into emergency mode after an administrator heard a loud bang. A police search found nothing suspicious.
Meanwhile, the outlines of a national debate on gun control began to take shape. At the White House, spokesman Jay Carney said curbing gun violence is a complex problem that will require a "comprehensive solution."
Carney did not offer specific proposals or a timeline. He said President Barack Obama will meet with law enforcement officials and mental health professionals in coming weeks.
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, flanked by shooting survivors and relatives of victims of gunfire around the country, pressed Obama and Congress to toughen gun laws and tighten enforcement after the Newtown massacre.
"If this doesn't do it," he asked, "what is going to?"
Lanza is believed to have used a Bushmaster AR-15-style rifle, a civilian version of the military's M-16. It is similar to the weapon used in a recent shopping mall shooting in Oregon and other deadly attacks around the U.S. Versions of the AR-15 were outlawed in this country under the 1994 assault weapons ban, but the law expired in 2004.
At least one senator, Virginia Democrat Mark Warner, said Monday that the attack in Newtown has led him to rethink his opposition to the ban on assault weapons.
West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, a Democrat who is an avid hunter and lifelong member of the National Rifle Association, said it's time to move beyond the political rhetoric and begin an honest discussion about reasonable restrictions on guns.
"This is bigger than just about guns," he added. "It's about how we treat people with mental illness, how we intervene, how we get them the care they need, how we protect our schools. It's just so sad."
Authorities say Lanza shot his mother, Nancy Lanza, at their home and then took her car and some of her guns to the school, where he broke in and opened fire. A Connecticut official said the mother, a gun enthusiast who practiced at shooting ranges, was found dead in her pajamas in bed, shot four times in the head with a .22-caliber rifle.
Lanza was wearing all black, with an olive-drag utility vest with lots of pockets, during the attack.
Investigators have found no letters or diaries that could explain the rampage.
Debora Seifert, a spokeswoman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said both Lanza and his mother fired at shooting ranges, and also visited ranges together.
"We do not have any indication at this time that the shooter engaged in shooting activities in the past six months," Seifert told the AP.
In Newtown, classes were canceled Monday, and the town's other schools were to reopen Tuesday. The district made plans to send surviving Sandy Hook students to a former middle school in the neighboring town of Monroe.
Sandy Hook desks are being taken to the Chalk Hill school in Monroe, empty since town schools consolidated last year, and tradesmen are donating their services to get the school ready within a matter of days.
"These are innocent children that need to be put on the right path again," Monroe police Lt. Brian McCauley said.
With Sandy Hook Elementary still designated a crime scene, state police Lt. Paul Vance said it could be months before police turn the school back over to the district. The people of Newtown were not ready to address its future.
"We're just now getting ready to talk to our son about who was killed," said Robert Licata, the father of a student who escaped harm during the shooting. "He's not even there yet."
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Monday, February 14, 2011
Open thread on episode #696
149 comments:
God Damn Matt, That was one of your best speeches!ReplyDelete
And Jeff jumping in at the right time, it was beautiful.
When mark brought up the good deeds of churches, he basically accepted defeat.
caller Mark = deer in headlights.ReplyDelete
It was a beautiful thing to watch. I think Mark called in fully intending to give you guys a piece of his mind and have you guys shamefacedly say 'sorry'. Instead we got spluttering and ambiguity. I think you may have planted a little pebble of doubt into his dogmatic foundation. He might mull it over and who knows, call back sometime as a deconvert.
Won't hold my breath though.
Nice jorb Matt and Jeff...nice jorb
Matt and Jeff: rational reasoned response.ReplyDelete
Mark: *click*
Why is it that when they get shut down on the "The bible is true" argument, they always fall back on the "Church is good because of the sense of community" line?ReplyDelete
Mark will be co-hosting within a year!ReplyDelete
Damn, is that speech on YouTube yet? Amazing work guys.ReplyDelete
FINISH HIMReplyDelete
"Until you demonstrate faith is a good thing, how could you possibly convince someone? and btw how do you go about demonstrating faith is a good thing without evidence?
It all comes Back to reason and evidence."
"sigh...." *click*ReplyDelete
I'd like to know how many members of Mark's church were watching the show, and what their reaction was to this performance.
Yeah well handled, I was hoping Mark would call in this time now that Matt and Jeff were on. And it turned out the way I expected it to. I hope Mark's church watches that episode.ReplyDelete
Excellent show. Well done. Thank you Jeff, Matt and crew! Jeff, you were remarkably well restrained. Matt, you were awesome as usual. Another totally unprepared self righteous theist gets verbally smacked upside the head. And no, I don't think you rambled on too much. I don't think you needed to give that caller more say. I don't think he actually had much to say really. He was effectively just whining about our having the nerve to think, speak, nay merely exist within eyeshot and earshot of his sheeple. Too bad there wasn't more time for Jeff to chime in with his thoughts on that. Man do I miss the longer show format.ReplyDelete
Ahhh!!! When will this be online for us to watch!? :-@ReplyDelete
The audio is already up. Listened to it last night.ReplyDelete
Now, if we were a religion, we'd be erecting a statue of Matt, pointing to the sky, with the words of his speech engraved on the base.ReplyDelete
I did wish that Mark had had more time to explain his position, but listening to it again, I don't think he had a position to speak of. Combining what he said this week with last, I think what he really wanted to say was, "Your show is causing our children to de-convert. Please stop."ReplyDelete
I wish he'd had the balls to say that outright, because then there could have been an interesting discussion about childhood indoctrination and parental rights vs. rights of children. There was a great episode in which I think Jen (?) talked at length about it, and it was very interesting. But Mark, I think, didn't want to admit to the Eeevil Atheists that they had made an impact on the minds of his young flock, which doesn't speak very well of his faith in the Bible as a source of all truth.
I was digging the hell out of that soul track on the audio version before Steeksma's thing cut in. Wondering what the hell I was listening to, but still...ReplyDelete
There's got to be some good (&cheap) skeptical soul around somewhere to use now and then.
If I had a wish, Mark would be on every week. This could be a long-term project. Maybe next time a little more understanding and finding out about his REAL reasons for his faith. But other than that - good job!ReplyDelete
Typically, after listening to an exchange between the hosts and a theist caller I almost always feel at least a little frustrated that it wasn't handled better. Not to say I could handle it better myself, but you know what I mean- emotions get raw and rationality slips or unconfirmed assumptions about the theist are made, that sort of thing.ReplyDelete
But this time, after Mark hung up, I took off my headphones and just had to say "damn" because you two totally dismantled his arguments in a focused and reasoned manner that was totally satisfying.
The irony is, that he specifically called to "defend the faith".ReplyDelete
I'm very glad that Mark called back. I hope that more people from Austin Stone continue to call in.ReplyDelete
I looked at the Austin Stone website, but I didn't see any elders or staff by the name of Mark. Naturally, this doesn't mean that Mark was lying about his identity - but maybe he just wasn't the head honcho of apologists from that church. By his performance - or lack thereof - I'd say this is very likely the case.ReplyDelete
I was surprised, however, to see an elder by the name of Jeff Mangum. That gives a new meaning to the words "I LOOOOVE YOU JESUS CHRIIIIIIIIIIIIST..."
I really wanted to hear a response from Mark after that beautiful elucidation. But I haven't come up with an answer to the question of: what could he have said? What could he possibly say that would allow him to retain his position, yet respond rationally to the points that they laid out?ReplyDelete
Matt and Jeff's speech didn't leave much, if any, wiggle room, that I could perceive. Perhaps that is why he hung up. (That is, if he actually hung up. Is it confirmed that he did, or was it more technical problems?)
I definitely heard a sigh from Mark, a click, and then Jeff, "I think he's gone again". Awesome! Well done guys!ReplyDelete
Could someone from Axp please upload the video. I'm missing out on all the fun... :(ReplyDelete
The two call ins by Mark need to be cut together in one video. Make it so!ReplyDelete
Great job on the call with Mark. If he had started that conversation with me, I would have been off on some completely useless pedantic tangent about what exactly he meant by their church being "by the book".ReplyDelete
He's made it pretty clear that the impetus behind his calls is his concern about the effects that watching the show is having on some of the younger people in the church.
Although Jeff didn't say much during the call, what he did say focused the conversation on the divisiveness of the beliefs underlying the fear that is driving Mark's objections to the content, or maybe even existence, of the show. Jeff's got quite the knack at getting straight to the heart of the matter.
And Matt, I've been a fan of the show for a while, but this is immediately one of my favorite of your responses. You were calm and rational, honest and respectful, and your compassion for people came through - well done. "sigh... click" indeed. I'm very interested to see if Mark calls in again next week.
I just wanted to jump in here and add my voice to the chorus... this week's show was pure, unadulterated WIN! I tip my hat to both of you.ReplyDelete
While at first I was somewhat surprised by Jeff's mellow response to Mark's "You know you are all going to hell" tripe it actually gave Matt room for an absolute highlight of the AE show. Matt's response was so eloquent, honest and heartfelt that even I with my black atheist heart got choked up a little bit.ReplyDelete
If by any chance Mark or a member of his congregation reads this, please call the show again. "Sigh, click" is not what Jesus would do.
There is no one on staff by the name of Mark, but there is someone listed under the name of Marcus with the title of Director of Operations, so that might be who called.
There is some good that comes out of the Christian church. People can learn respect and concern for others - humility. They can learn to love one another. They can learn to study the bible. And then they can grow up, use their brains, and be like Matt.ReplyDelete
Ok OK, by now, i really believe that people call in(like Mark) in order to goad Jeff Dee into a tantrum by threatening hell...ReplyDelete
There are several Youtube clips where the host speaks with a caller until the caller threatens hell and Jeff Dee is there already waving at the camera "pardon me a moment but do you mind apologizing?"
If I had $1 for every caller that threatened Jeff with hell...
I want to chime in with praise for Jeff and Matt. Jeff caught me off-guard when he wanted to know why a caller immediately wanted to be enemies; why he would choose to define himself in a way that excludes others and damns them, when for the most part they're no different in how they behave in the world. If found that a fresh and powerful perspective.ReplyDelete
Matt's philosophical, and yet deeply human, discussion of how religion has compromised and affected his relationships with other people was also extremely satisfying, and something that ought to give all but the most strident theist pause.
The Atheist Experience and the folks on it are unfailingly first rate in my book, and I'm really glad you guys are out there doing it, week in, week out. Thanks.
Classic DillahuntyReplyDelete
Great show guys.ReplyDelete
Call me crazy, but Mark sounds just like Ed in Toronto, heard here in episode 680, 15minutes in:
"Matt D." sounds *awesome*. Too bad it'd probably get too confusing with Jeff *Dee* around. People might think you're married or something.ReplyDelete
I hope that: 1. Mark calls again, he sets up for great rants and allows for a taste of victory when he simply gives up (did he really hang up?) 2. a member of his church calls in to continue the discussion and give us their perspective of Mark's performance and their reaction watching it 3. Jeff and Matt keep up the good-atheist-bad-atheist Spiel. It works incredibly well and is just gold to listen to.ReplyDelete
@Mario: This guy doesn't sound old enough to be director of operations...maybe of the youth group.ReplyDelete
Anyway, the guy still strikes me as a youth leader or something. I'll bet he overheard some kids in his youth group talking about the show, went to his pastor and the pastor told him to call into the show himself.
I'm not sure what he was thinking when he decided it'd be nice to start calling into the show, but it's pretty clear he didn't "study" ahead of time. His response to everything that is brought up against him is to let out one of those *massive* patronizing sighs of his and start mumbling.
And I'm sorry but the whole "I'm worried about you leading my flock astray" thing really pisses me off. It's not like Matt is a history teacher in a public school who is overstepping his bounds and trying to abuse his position to influence the kids. This is a TV show on a specific channel at a specific time. Hell, Mark, YOU'RE the ones with the oh-so-convenient ability to threaten your flock with something like eternal hell. The worst us atheists/skeptics can do is rudely tell the other person they're a "bad atheist" or a "bad skeptic".
I have to say I honestly DON'T hope that Mark calls in again. He's nervous, has no idea what he's talking about and seems to have *nothing* prepared. It's like watching Mike Tyson fight Justin Bieber or something.
I know like a billion people have already mentioned the Mark call, but I had to put in my 2 cents.ReplyDelete
Dillahunty off the top rope!
There, done. Seriously, though, I had to pause the file about four or five times just because listening to Mark talk was starting to get to me. He sounded -really- friggin' nervous, to the point where he was making me nervous. While I think it was an awesome bit of oratory, I felt a little like Jeff and Matt were kicking a puppy. Oh well, serves the puppy right for calling in. Best of luck to him.
Oh, and Jeff, you should totally get back on the NP, we've missed you.
Matt D: "What kind of God requires faith instead of supplying evidence?"ReplyDelete
James K: "What does God need with a starship?"
"It all comes back to reason and evidence."ReplyDelete
His silence at the end said it all.
The way Mark entered the conversation intrigues me the most. I feel like I recognise that zeal in his voice when he talks about how the guys are going to hell. I've seen it in other street proseltyzers and so forth over the years. They play it like it's such an ace too, as though it taps some deep seated knowledge which you won't be able to ignore now they've pointed it out to you (which is surely what they believe, if experience is any judge).ReplyDelete
That J.D can come back with, essentially, "Dude! WTF?" seems so shocking to the guy he's got pretty much nothing after that. The curious bit is that he really thought it would work and I venture that it has actually worked in the past, possibly on himself.
As enlightening as that all was I expect Mark will only provoke another round of "Why don't you get some real apologists on, like Matt Slick or William Lane Craig, instead of dumbstruck sunday school teachers leaning absent-mindedly on their phone cradle".
Matt, that was f'ing brilliant. I hope the clip sees wide distribution, because it just can't be done any better.ReplyDelete
I hope that viewers will also take note of the argument used -- it's an argument that I think of as the "argument from non-obviousness" (similar to the more familiar argument from divine hiddenness). Basically the argument holds that if a religion were true and a god wanted us to know it, the religion would be obviously and demonstrably true, from the raw fact of the god's existence down to every significant detail of the religion. We would have no need for a holy book, because we would encounter the truth of the religion in our daily lives, and there would be little or no room for rational, reasonable disagreement. I really wish this argument had a higher profile, for I think it's the best in our arsenal, as Matt D. so ably demonstrated.
On a side note, I'm not sure why many commenters think that Mark is a member of the church's clergy. I figure he's just a church member.
Matt's speech makes you want to shine up his head and kiss it..lol. The click at the end of Mark's call is priceless and speaks for itself. The end of this episode is destined for greatness on youtube.ReplyDelete
Like a lot of people already said, that speech was brilliant. Maybe the best speech Matt ever did.ReplyDelete
One of the most eloquent, heart-felt, passionate shows I've heard. Almost brought me to tears. Great job, guys.ReplyDelete
Damn. Had to go back and listen to that ish again. Brilliant!ReplyDelete
This was just beautiful, Matt and Jeff.ReplyDelete
I am so happy right now. Thank you.
- Anonymous2/15/2011 10:13 AM
Bravo Matt and Jeff. Bravo!ReplyDelete
When Matt started talking about how it breaks his heart and is almost unbearable to watch people he loves be duped... I started to tear up.
Youtube link anyone???
I am compelled to add my congratulations to what was an excellent speech by Matt D; that speech should be bookmarked by everyone.ReplyDelete
Another comment related to an earlier caller:
You might save some time defining exactly what each individual person is defining as 'god' by referring to what is called the "Standard Model of God" as given in the "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" blog. Then all you need to do is assume any caller is using the standard model unless he/she declares otherwise. This model is explained in http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god3.htm.
Again--excellent show and keep up the good work.
Other than Tracie's instant-classic dismantling of a Christian a couple weeks ago, this is the best handling of a Christian caller I've ever seen on this show. Well done Matt and Jeff.ReplyDelete
That was completely off the charts brilliant. With his years on tAE, Matt has become so razor sharp that he can actually decide to be gentle.ReplyDelete
But one has to deplore the quality of callers sometimes. Mark was very ill equipped or prepared to deal with his own thoughts, let alone those of a well-honed first-rate intellect. I myself, who am not in any way a theist or deist or mystic, can think of two or three things in response to Matt's points. So come on, theists. Bring it on, otherwise Matt and Jeff and the rest will grow bored.
@ PermafrostReplyDelete
Let's here your responses to Matt's points then. A little critique is never out of the question.
I so so hope that young members of Mark's church were watching that episode. It would be incredibly healthy for them to see this video (with accompanying hang-up form Mark) to go along with the sermons they are regualrly exposed to.ReplyDelete
I expect many of them did, given that Mark only found out about the show from young church members: I think it likely that he would tell them if he was going to call in.
Sowing seeds and all.
Youtube clip is up:ReplyDelete
What struck me about the Mark-Matt-Jeff exchange was that it was interesting to have a theist who actually listened. Matt and Jeff were awe-inspiring - calm, rational, empathetic and yet passionate. A classic moment. Thank you.ReplyDelete
What is comming out of Matts and Jeffs mouths is pure gold. I have listened to this three times already, its razorsharp but nice, emotional but still 100% rational. Awesome.ReplyDelete
I am going to show the bit with Mark to my grandfather, who prays for my soul every night, and my creationist friend. My position is so very aptly put forth in it.ReplyDelete
@Geth JonesReplyDelete
I think the only reason it seemed Mark was so attentive was that he was stunned into silence. He had absolutely *zip* ready to say to begin with, let alone respond to Matt/Jeff.
What the hell has happened to the atheist experience lately?ReplyDelete
I've tried to watch online as I have been for a couple of years now an it is near impossible, phone problems, audio problems, stream problems. But when I get a chance to listen to the podcast or in the archive they have been hands down the most lucid and insurmountably brilliant shows since I began watching! Bravo to all of the hosts.
It's been amazing to see what Mark's motivations here are. He has called each time to tell us that he is perturbed by the mere existence of the show with the sidenote that other members of his church are tuning in.
Each and every time he has been the most perfectly timed jumping off point for every host that has had a chance to receive a call from him! delivering the perfect non-suiqitur, logical fallacy or threat of hell at just the right moment!
If the ACA was for profit and I were Mark I'd be demanding some sort of payment!
I think you hit the nail on the head. The only thing he had to fall back on was scripture, and the absurdity of that position was made clear. "Sigh, click" was the only recourse left to him after that verbal bludgeoning.
If he was attempting to show the youth in his charge the validity of christian theology, then I think a few fence sitters fell our way.
This was a great show. Good job to Matt and Jeff for keeping their cool.ReplyDelete
There's something I've noticed in watching the show for a couple of years that really stands out, though: It always seems that the callers who ignore basic manners and niceties, simply bowling into their points, come from the theist camp.
Mark started off better this time (rather than his last call to Tracie and Jen), doing his best to exchange perfunctory pleasantries, but then he got to the Hell threat (which was handled very well by Jeff), and then he ended up simply hanging up without even acknowledging the points made, interspersed with multiple condescending sighs, the whole time completely avoiding making even a single position clear or bothering to substantively reply to you. The disdain he exuded throughout both calls was tangible.
This is a minor point compared to the vacuousness of the remainder of his position (the little he shared), but it is in and of itself symbolic of the divisiveness caused by religion. I can understand the position rationally: "I am one of the chosen people the creator of the universe is buddies with, and my magic book tells me you are evil, so I don't even have to bother being civil to you." But is this really how anyone's grandparents taught them to behave? Why is it not possible to even fake politeness with one's intellectual opponents, especially given the common Christian preconception that one has been gifted with superior moral understanding?
tl;dr: Mark is rude.
The technical problems aren't the fault of the ACA, nor of Axp. The ACA is working with the equipment provided, making the best of a bad situation. Matt wrote a post about it recently. You simply cant blame them for the problems of the studio the broadcast from; and Im not saying that you do blame the ACA/Axp for the problems, I'm merely stating reality.
@ Mamba24ReplyDelete
I may call in some day.
@infi: Mark called in with Russel and Mark previously but it ended abruptly as there was some sort of disconnect (on Mark's end apparently). It was another caller (Mike, not Mark) from the same church that called in when talking to Tracie and Jen. Both calls were excellent, and although the first caller was a bit more abrasive initially, he wasn't rude. He was exhibiting a strong defense mechanism in reaction to someone criticizing his beliefs. Its a common response and one I've encountered myself many times when conversing with theists. Its not necessarily their fault, as their minds have become so entrenched and reliant upon this set of ideas that they naturally exhibit a strong protective need of it when they feel it is being threatened. I guess its sort of a psychological flight-or-flight mechanism, as opposed to a physical one like being confronted by a tiger.ReplyDelete
I know, my post was really meant in Jest. I don't mean to complain about the show. Its about the great content of the show, not the polish of it.
@Tyler: Ah, you're right. Same church, same first letter of their names, conflated the two I guess. I remember Mark being disconnected last time, and giving him the benefit of the doubt. But this time it seemed to me (and others above) that he just hung up.ReplyDelete
The defensive reaction is normal, I can understand that. But after going through that a few times and seeing how silly one feels that they can't make any realistic points, one tends (I hope) to consider their position (if for no other reason than to avoid appearing silly).
However, I still say that's no excuse for bad manners.
I put it up on YouTube as well:ReplyDelete
It would be so funny to shoot a clip of Mark on the other end with his preacher standing next to him. And the preacher, realising that his prize student just got trashed and is unable to defend himself, moves his finger to the telephone and *click*.ReplyDelete
It doesn't take much to become an atheist. Someone just needs to plant a small seed of doubt into your mind. I'm still trying to plant that seed in my girlfriends head, but like most christians, she's emotionally attached and indoctrinated so it could take years, if it ever works at all.ReplyDelete
Jeff & Matt's response to Mark is probably my favorite moment in AETV history, and I've listened to every episode.ReplyDelete
You're probably right about the theist having nothing to say, but because he didn't fall back on a script or start shouting or ranting, it made a much more interesting conversation - and Matt and Jeff truly got a chance to shine. I half-believe the comment made above that Mark will be helping to present the show in two years...
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
it is easy to beat up on amateurs, but here is what happens when atheists debate a pro:ReplyDelete
sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but atheism looks a whole lot different from outside your little bubble of comfort.
Tell you what then, Mike. Present your very best argument/evidence for the existence of god, and we'll see how good it is and how atheism looks in the light of it.ReplyDelete
The typical theist response from MikeAdAstraSmith....."That guy didn't know what he was doing, debate a pro and see what happens."...Like we haven't seen and gone through every single argument for the existence of god and revealed the false premises/logical fallacies in them. Instead of whining Mike, how about you present what you think is the best and most clear argument for the existence of God? Forget the emotional aspects and back of your talk, the floor is yours.ReplyDelete
MikeAdAstraSmith - Mark had the chance to talk, it's his own fault he didn't take it. He avoided giving straight answers to every question asked him, instead heavy sighing and not taking any responsibility for his opinions. When asked for a piece of evidence backing up his claim that the bible is divinely inspired, he responded with a URL. That's not an answer, it's a deflection. If he really believes that something on carm.org gives solid evidence, why didn't he bring up that evidence? His response basically amounted to "Well, I don't know, but there's this one website that said some stuff that sounded good..." It's not the fault of the hosts of the show that Mark was completely unprepared to discuss his beliefs.ReplyDelete
Frankly, you're not doing much better at making an argument in your comments than Mark did on his call. Do you have one to make? Do you have anything other than the same sort of vague, thoughtless finger wagging and link citing that Mark resorted to? If so, lay it on us.
mark was talking about this, before you cut him off: http://carm.org/apologetics/evidence-and-answers/evidence-biblical-inspirationReplyDelete
read it and weep.
matt said we have to rely on copies of copies of translations of copies.ReplyDelete
ok, do you apply the same standard of evidence to ancient greek writers like Herodotus, Lucretius, Scorates, and Homer?
if you did you would have to DISCARD those texts.
and the New Testament is 99.5 percent accurate with 5600 copies.
so matt should apologize for this lie.
the evidence is there, you jsut find it more comfortable to sit in your little bubble and stick your fingers in your ears and sing lalala...ReplyDelete
by the way, if atheism is true, why are you so scared to have dr. craig on your show?
is it because you think it mgiht turn out like it did when he demolished hitchens, as i linked above?
man, it must suck when your atheist posterboy gets demolished!
As I asked you before, Mike, "Do you have anything other than the same sort of vague, thoughtless finger wagging and link citing that Mark resorted to?"ReplyDelete
Your last post seems to indicate that the answer to that question is a resounding "no".
Please try to think for yourself.
Mike: So in fact, you are incapable of defending your religious beliefs with an argument of your own, and must send us links where people whom you think are very bright will do you arguing for you.ReplyDelete
Got it. Around here, we call that a fail.
Anyway, we have wept reading that CARM page, many times. Wept with laughter, that is. Seriously, if they're still dragging out supposed prophecies (no, Isaiah wasn't referring to Jesus) and old saws about the Bible predicting the roundness of the Earth—a fact known to the Greeks centuries before Jesus's time—as "evidence" of its divine inspiration, they really need to up their game. None of that stuff is anything that hasn't been dealt solid refutations already.
And no, we didn't cut Mark off. He got upset, sighed and hung up, which can be clearly heard on the audio.
Hi Mike, are you a member of Mark's church? I was on the show the first time he called, and I've been really interested to know what Mark's intent was in calling in. Is he trying to convince us to stop doing the show, or is he just hoping to make us look bad for the kids watching?ReplyDelete
Once again you fail to understand that we already know about Matt Slicks TAG argument...and it fails, so instead of pointing us to a link, how about you discuss the argument with us and explain why you think the argument is valid. Then we will point out all the logical fallacies/False Dichotomies and false premises that make it up and explain why it fails to prove that a god exists. Sure it will take long but if you are truly convinced of this argument you should have no problem defending it. It seems you have just read through it and thought it sounded good to you, I want to know why you think it's valid...stop finger pointing and defend your views and beliefs. But if you don't want to have an actual discussion, then I suppose I can just direct to the Iron-chariots.org Wiki that has a step by step counter-argument to Matt Slicks TAG, so make up your mind buddy.ReplyDelete
i used to be a bit intimidated by atheists until i saw this hilarious clip:ReplyDelete
then i realized, there is nothing to be afraid of. just ask them simple questions and you will see they are silly.
by the way, if atheism is true, why are you so scared to have dr. craig on your show?ReplyDelete
Here's a question. Were you dropped on your head as a child?
If William Lane Craig is willing to appear on our show, we'd love to have him, though I suspect his speaking fees are outrageous. In any event, there isn't one of us who wouldn't be willing to talk to him. As for the video, it's one thing for dishonest Christians to pull a clip and cut in Looney Tunes music, but another thing entirely to watch the full unedited debate, which you apparently don't realize is also on YouTube. Too bad.
If you're such good buddies with Craig, maybe you can get in touch with him and set things up for us.
In the meantime, how about making with that evidence for God we asked for?
Mike? Hello? Evidence for God?ReplyDelete
the kalam cosmological argumentReplyDelete
1.Whatever begins to exist, has a cause of its existence (i.e. something has caused it to start existing).
2.The universe began to exist. i.e., the temporal regress of events is finite.
3.Therefore, as the universe is something which exists, it must have had a cause of it being here.
Following Al-Ghāzāli, Craig argues that this cause must be a personal will.
"the fool hath said in his heart there is no god"
:) sorry guys
Ugh... either Mike is deleting his own comments, or the blog's acting screwy again. I see them showing up in my email, but they're not appearing in the comments section.ReplyDelete
The latest one says:
the kalam cosmological argument
1.Whatever begins to exist, has a cause of its existence (i.e. something has caused it to start existing).
2.The universe began to exist. i.e., the temporal regress of events is finite.
3.Therefore, as the universe is something which exists, it must have had a cause of it being here.
Following Al-Ghāzāli, Craig argues that this cause must be a personal will.
"the fool hath said in his heart there is no god"
:) sorry guys
Which, you know, is the Star Trek Rule all over again. Oh no! Some guy I've never met says that Captain Kirk called me a fool!
can you hear me?ReplyDelete
sorry, your blog didnt post my last comment.ReplyDelete
i KNOW i can prove god,
i have for many atheists and agnostics,
but i need a chatroom or something.
No but we can see and read your posts.....ReplyDelete
Craig argues that this cause must be a personal will.ReplyDelete
Yes, but how does he get from A to B?
You should be able to defend your beliefs right here in this blog man, have a go at it. We're waiting for your argument....ReplyDelete
if you give me 10 minutes and a chat room i will prove to you that god exists, beyond any doubt.ReplyDelete
that is, if you arent too scared to have your whole world view demolished.
Blogger is doing its usual thing of randomly putting comments into the spam dump, and so I've had to pull a couple of Mike's out of there.ReplyDelete
Anyway, we've whomped Kalam here.
What else you got?
On ustream?ReplyDelete
bring all your friends, so they can watch this.ReplyDelete
i want to educate you all at the same time rather than one at a time.
Playground taunts aren't the least bit intimidating, kiddo. If you have the proof, bring it.ReplyDelete
You don't need a chat-room, do it right here, what are you scared of? We are waiting for the argument that is supposed to shatter our world view! Let's hear it.ReplyDelete
everything has a cause, right?ReplyDelete
i am not scared of anything, i find this a really bad way to have a conversation, thats all.ReplyDelete
i mean, the universe had to COME from somewhere, right?ReplyDelete
Well, that's not our problem. Anyway:ReplyDelete
everything has a cause, right?
No. Quantum fluctuations are uncaused events.
Mike, I think you will find that having a discussion on forums works a lot better if instead of spamming the post with 5-8 line bursts of arrogant, patronizing crap, you put some effort into a post and say everything you mean to say, wait for someone to respond, then respond in kind.ReplyDelete
All you've done is spam this post with links to horrid arguments and awful YouTube videos and sit back on your haunches and smirk and say "tsk tsk tsk...silly atheists"
In fact, as I've written this brief little post, my gmail inbox has gone off with "Mike has responded to..." notifications FOUR times.
Grow up, try to make some sense, wait for people to respond, read their responses, then repeat.
Oh no, not the first cause argument! It's one my crippling weakness! Strength... fading... can't... form... complete... sentences...ReplyDelete
this is a place for people to post comments, not have a real0time discussion.ReplyDelete
but i udnerstand if you are scared.
after all, i have never lost a debate.
God has a cause too, right? He's part of everything after all.ReplyDelete
MikeAdAstraSmith quoth:ReplyDelete
"the fool hath said in his heart there is no god"
What's the next line say? Bible Gateway says it's "They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."
So the Bible says that someone who doesn't believe in God is incapable of being a good person. Are you one of those inerrantists? If so, care to defend that?
Anytime I see someone spouting off the first line of Psalms 14:1, I like to continue to the next sentence to see if they want to defend that one.
Is this your best argument Mikey? lol. Damn I thought I was going to hear a argument that I actually haven't heard before...silly me.ReplyDelete
why not a chatroom?ReplyDelete
just be honest if ur scared or if there is some other reason.
i mean, the universe had to COME from somewhere, right?ReplyDelete
But that would imply it already existed, or the matter it comprises already existed, somewhere else, before it came here from there.
Another possibility, and one that does a better job of adhering to Occam's Razor, is the metaphysical position called primacy of existence. "Existence exists" is not a proposition that requires proof, therefore existence itself can be taken as a causal primary. The matter comprising the universe has always existed, only that up until the Big Bang, it existed as a singularity, a point of infinite density.
To me, Mike, it seems like the only one who is scared to is the guy who's desperately trying to escape from this comments section.ReplyDelete
We like it here better than a chatroom, Mike. Sorry, your arguments will have to stand or fall on their merits, not because you got to use your preferred format.ReplyDelete
And stop with the "are you scared" babytalk already, dude. We're not 12.
But Martin, what if he double-dog dares us? What will we do then? You didn't think of that, DID YOU?ReplyDelete
Why not here? This will work just as well as a chat-room. So spill out your best argument, unless it was the Kalaam cosmological argument, then you have already failed. Let's go buddy stop dancing around and present your evidence for the existence of a god.ReplyDelete
Then we'll just get him at recess.ReplyDelete
you "like it here better".ReplyDelete
how come?
is it because i cant direct the flow of the argument?
"I can't direct the flow of the argument" sounds like an admission of failure to me. Nice talking with ya.ReplyDelete
...and he disappears in a puff of logic.ReplyDelete
No, we just don't feel like going on chat.ReplyDelete
But thanks for admitting you're only comfortable in arguments where you get to direct the flow. Thing is, we don't see any reason to follow your script in these things.
Here everybody gets their say.
Man, Mike keeps deleting his own comments as fast as he posts them.ReplyDelete
the reason you still dont believe is you shut someone up every time they try to enlighten you.ReplyDelete
Nobody's stopping you from posting your entire, blinding new rendition of the First Cause argument, Mike. In fact, if it will save time, just type up the entire script if you like. Tell us what we'll say too. That way you can saunter off and declare victory to all your friends over the scary atheists who live in your head.ReplyDelete
your blog is blocking my comments.ReplyDelete
do you know how frustrating this is for me?
Then how is it we can see your posts?ReplyDelete
No no, I think the blog really is acting screwy. I'm noticing it too. Hang on, I'm going to set up a new thread and see if posting there will fix the problem.ReplyDelete
A lot of Mike's comments are getting caught by Blogger's spam guards. I'm releasing them fast as I can.ReplyDelete
Also, keep in mind that if you're trying to post something large, there's a size limit, of sorts. So breaking it up into smaller chunks helps.ReplyDelete
Mike, please try posting on this thread instead.ReplyDelete
you can try to shut me up but eventually the truth gets out.ReplyDelete
Mike: after all, i have never lost a debate.ReplyDelete
Probably because you have never had one. Now that you're having one, let's see how you're doing: Kalam = refuted. First cause = refuted. Zero for two, so far. Hmmm.
We're not trying to shut you up, you petulant infant. Kazim is in fact going out of his way to set up a new thread for you to comment in where you might not get hit by the spam guard, and I've been removing your comments from the spam filter so they can appear here.ReplyDelete
Jeez, the problem with talking to Christians is you can never get past their arrested adolescence.
Man, you're right Martin. I had no idea that our damn spam filter was being so overzealous. Now that I look at it, it has piled in lots of stuff that I thought was just disappearing.ReplyDelete
The good news is that Google supposedly analyzes your past spam/not spam preferences, and so once I release all those comments it should not keep eliminating them. But in the future, it might be a good idea to keep a better eye on the spam filter and rescue stuff that is not by D**** M****.
Okay. I've cleared all 50 or so posts out the spam queue now, which is going to result in a lot of old posts having duplicate comments, but whatever.ReplyDelete
to get my 2 cents in. When Martin said it was a fail to link to arguments instead of making them yourself. I'd have to make the point that it's only a fail if the person can't discuss and defend the argument himself. Defending his position using someone else's argument that he understands and agrees with is more then okay, it infuriates me when others pull the "you can't think for yourself" because you quote someone, or bring up a common argument. It's not like you can go back in time and posit the argument first.ReplyDelete
But Im sure Martin meant "you posting links without trying to defend them is a fail."
So far we've got a copy and paste of the Kalam Cosmological Argument? Only Evidence so far, right?
well, here's several good "POWNS" of our own.
Kalam gets you nowhere close to god. The absolute most that you can get from kalam is that maybe there is a being that created the universe. This being could however, be powerless in every other endeavor. It could create the universe yet not be able to change anything about it or know of it's inhabitants. It would still fulfill the kalam argument without being what you would call god.ReplyDelete
The reason your spam filter was going off is because Mike was spamming the thread with stupid comments.ReplyDelete
"The reason your spam filter was going off is because Mike was spamming the thread with stupid comments."ReplyDelete
It's funny how obvious that is, but we still gotta say it 'cuz guy doesn't understand that we're NOT in a chat room.
the best part about that youtube link that mike ask us to watch is that you can't comment on it. Because of course Christians just can't put up with other people's opinion. Cowards!!ReplyDelete
A bit of a n00bish question: I don't know where the other thread is. Was it set up? Can I see?ReplyDelete
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.ReplyDelete
I couldn't listen to the episode earlier, but now I have to praise (pardon the word) the work that was done here. On an earlier episode (the latest Jen and Tracie one) I said that they had the best call ever and I still think this is true in some way, but now I have to say Matt had one of the best speeches ever in 696.ReplyDelete
First of all, I'm probably one of the persons who enjoys the most Jeff's passionate talk against people who believe he deserves to go to hell. He didn't do the same in this one, so it wasn't as fun, but let me say he couldn't have done better in this case. It was put well enough that even some Christians should understand that they're a bad person when they say things like that. Then Matt's speech. I don't know what to say to explain how much I liked it. Not only was it a perfect representation of what I think and probably lots of us think (although we're not completely an "us"), only said in a much better way, but I also think it was one of the strongest case for atheism I ever heard, explaining how you have every reason to be one and no reason to believe in a God. And I don't mind people being "dicks" usually, but that wasn't the case at all here.
It was strong, yet simple and said in a nice enough way that I believe some Christians must have been convinced by it. Even the guy sounded nervous and I'm pretty sure he realized you had a point. The only valid thing in his beliefs is not the supernatural, it's only the community at church that he could get many other potentially better ways. He probably won't admit it to people at church and he was probably in denial to himself from the second he hung up, but it's impossible that the logical part of his brain hasn't at least been challenged a bit by this.
I know I should be on the other thread, but this is slightly off-topic, anyway. As for your point about "not linking and being able to defend" a claim, I suspect that there is also a practical matter to it as well.
By making the opponent articulate an argument, you are requiring that person to put in an amount of work on par with what you are putting into refuting the argument. You're also requiring the opponent to focus on a single argument and evaluate that claim completely, before moving on to the next argument.
Linking seems to be the text equivalent of the Gish Gallup. One person spends 30 seconds linking to a slew of questionable claims, with end result being that the atheist doesn't have the time to debunk them all. (Or a Denial Of Service attack, to use another analogy).
I loved jeff's rant starting with why do they want to be their enemy. Good tact i thought. However i felt earlier in the show he came across a bit rude to some of the atheist callers. It was a bit of a fuck off and lets get to the theists attitude. Which makes it seem as though hes just their for a damn good argument rather than sharing points of view. If thats the case fair enough, just an observationReplyDelete
In a way I feel bad for guys like Mark. These are people who have never really questioned their faith or investigated their own belief system, so as such cant really defend it. All they know is that they are upset, they feel they have been wronged by the simple fact that other people don't believe as they do.ReplyDelete
So then they sputter and cast about, looking for ways out of a conversation they had no business being in. I would feel for them. Sorta. If they didn't call in the first place.
What Matt said to Mark is one of the reasons I wish the Atheist Experience is more well known than Richard Dawkins. He is a good guy but not nearly as good at debates, and if the Atheist Experience was more well known, there would certainly be more Atheists out there.ReplyDelete
Christie Luv may get part of her wish. The Mark segment has just been posted on the Richard Dawkins website and Richard himself wrote in and said (in effect) "Who is this Matt character you Americans seem to know about?" This was followed by a large number of comments regarding the greatness of Matt and the entire AEx gang. One commenter suggested that Richard Dawkins should call in himself. This will be great exposure.ReplyDelete
Book 'em , Dano......
PLEASE NOTE: The Atheist Experience has moved to a new location, and this blog is now closed to comments. To participate in future discussions, please visit http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/axp.
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text:
Death Records
St. Johns County Deaths 1950-2004
This information is provided by the St. Augustine Genealogical Society for genealogical research purposes only.
St. Johns County Deaths 1950-2004 for last names beginning with A-L was compiled by C. Mack Wills and updated 5 Aug 2009. M-Z was updated 2 Oct 2007.
Duplicates and questions may be found. Some cemetery names may have changed! Maiden names and nicknames are in ( ).
Name of Spouse @Parents: @ indicates parent of an individual. The spouse does not have this prefix. Key: w/o is wife of; s/o is son of; d/o is daughter of; inf/o is infant of; ch/o is child of.
DORSEY, John
Birth Date: Not Available
Age at Death: Not Available
Death Date: 7 Sep 1998
Burial Place: Not Avaiilable
Name of Spouse @Parents: Not Avaiilable
Notes: Not Available
Source of Record: St. Johns County Deaths 1950-2004


text:
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(JTA) — A Belgian municipality has cancelled a debate on Zionism following complaints about organizers' use of anti-Semitic imagery to advertise the event.
The event, planned by the Brussels branch of the Belgian Socialist Party, was cancelled on Monday following criticism of a poster showing a caricature of a snake-eyed Israeli soldier wearing the mask of an ultra-Orthodox Jew. The soldier is depicted holding one finger on the scales of justice, tipping it toward a single white man. A group of people of color are depicted on the other side.
"This kind of caricature that stigmatizes an entire community is of course unacceptable in form and essence," Vittorio Mettewie, the Socialist Party president for the area of Molenbeek, is quoted as saying on Sudinfo.be, a news website.
Mettewie also said there were "Nazi overtones" to the caricature, which advertised the event titled, "Let's talk freely and seriously about Zionism."
The cancellation followed criticism by Alain Destexhe, a lawmaker in the Brussels region, who said the caricature was "worthy of Nazis propaganda about the all-powerful Jew." CCLJ, a Belgian Jewish group, also said it smacked of fascist stereotypes about Jews.


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First Known Use: 1542
verb vi·tu·per·ate \vī-ˈtü-pə-ˌrāt, və-, -ˈtyü-\
Definition of VITUPERATE
transitive verb
: to abuse or censure severely or abusively : berate
intransitive verb
: to use harsh condemnatory language
— vi·tu·per·a·tor \-ˌrā-tər\ noun
See vituperate defined for kids
Origin of VITUPERATE
Latin vituperatus, past participle of vituperare, from vitium fault + parare to make, prepare — more at pare
Related to VITUPERATE
Synonym Discussion of VITUPERATE
scold, upbraid, berate, rail, revile, vituperate mean to reproach angrily and abusively. scold implies rebuking in irritation or ill temper justly or unjustly <angrily scolding the children>. upbraid implies censuring on definite and usually justifiable grounds <upbraided her assistants for poor research>. berate suggests prolonged and often abusive scolding <berated continually by an overbearing boss>. rail (at or against) stresses an unrestrained berating <railed loudly at their insolence>. revile implies a scurrilous, abusive attack prompted by anger or hatred <an alleged killer reviled in the press>. vituperate suggests a violent reviling <was vituperated for betraying his friends>.
Rhymes with VITUPERATE
abbreviate, abominate, accelerate, accentuate, accommodate, acculturate, accumulate, adjudicate, adulterate, affiliate, agglomerate, alienate, alleviate, alliterate, amalgamate, ameliorate, amyl nitrate, annihilate, annunciate, anticipate, apostolate, appreciate, appropriate, approximate, arpeggiate, articulate, asphyxiate, assassinate, asseverate, assimilate, associate, at any rate, attenuate, authenticate, barbiturate, bicarbonate, calumniate, capacitate, capitulate, catholicate, certificate, coagulate, coelenterate, collaborate, commemorate, commiserate, communicate, compassionate, concatenate, conciliate, confabulate, confederate, conglomerate, congratulate, consolidate, contaminate, cooperate, coordinate, corroborate, deactivate, debilitate, decapitate, decelerate, decerebrate, deconcentrate, deconsecrate, decorticate, decrepitate, de-escalate, defibrinate, defoliate, degenerate, deliberate, delineate, demodulate, denominate, depopulate, depreciate, deracinate, deregulate, desegregate, desiderate, detoxicate, devaluate, diaconate, dilapidate, discriminate, disintegrate, disseminate, dissimulate, dissociate, domesticate, effectuate, ejaculate, elaborate, electroplate, eliminate, elucidate, emaciate, emancipate, emasculate, encapsulate, enumerate, enunciate, episcopate, equivocate, eradicate, etiolate, evacuate, evaluate, evaporate, eventuate, eviscerate, exacerbate, exaggerate, exasperate, excited state, excogitate, excoriate, exfoliate, exhilarate, exonerate, expatiate, expatriate, expectorate, expostulate, expropriate, extenuate, exterminate, extrapolate, facilitate, felicitate, fish or cut bait, garrison state, gesticulate, habilitate, habituate, hallucinate, humiliate, hydrogenate, hypothecate, illuminate, impersonate, inactivate, inaugurate, incarcerate, incinerate, incorporate, incriminate, indoctrinate, inebriate, infatuate, infuriate, ingratiate, ingurgitate, initiate, inoculate, inseminate, insinuate, instantiate, intercalate, interpolate, interrelate, interrogate, intimidate, intoxicate, invalidate, investigate, invigorate, irradiate, Italianate, Korea Strait, lanceolate, legitimate, luxuriate, mandarinate, manipulate, matriarchate, matriculate, Merthiolate, necessitate, negotiate, noncandidate, obliterate, officiate, Orange Free State, orientate, originate, oxygenate, participate, particulate, patriarchate, patriciate, perambulate, peregrinate, perpetuate, pontificate, precipitate, predestinate, predominate, prefabricate, premeditate, preponderate, prevaricate, procrastinate, prognosticate, proliferate, propitiate, proportionate, quadruplicate, quintuplicate, reciprocate, recriminate, recuperate, redecorate, reduplicate, reeducate, refrigerate, regenerate, regurgitate, reincarnate, reintegrate, reiterate, rejuvenate, remunerate, repatriate, repudiate, resuscitate, retaliate, reticulate, revaluate, reverberate, scholasticate, second estate, self-flagellate, self-immolate, self-pollinate, seventy-eight, sextuplicate, Singapore Strait, sophisticate, subordinate, substantiate, syllabicate, tergiversate, transliterate, triangulate, vanity plate, variegate, vaticinate, vociferate
Learn More About VITUPERATE
Next Word in the Dictionary: vituperationPrevious Word in the Dictionary: vitulineAll Words Near: vituperate
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Equip your wardrobe with the latest styles and technology from this duo of sportswear titans, PUMA and Helly Hansen. Known for their excellence with outerwear, we teamed up wi...
- Style: 521216_65
- Color: Intense Blue-Hot Coral
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Panoramic 6
This product belongs to the Ninja Library and requires Ninja Membership to access. You can add the Ninja membership to your account through here through this page.* Please click on the black button to download the original high resolution virtual set WITHOUT watermark. You need to be logged in before the black download button will be visible.


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Insurance against losses for U.S. futures customers may be feasible, according to a study commissioned after MF Global Holdings Ltd. and Peregrine Financial Group Inc. collapsed.
The study, commissioned by CME Group Inc., the Futures Industry Association, the Institute for Financial Markets and the National Futures Association, surveyed private insurance companies to gauge their interest in providing protection to customers if their futures broker goes bankrupt, according to a statement released today.
A group of eight insurers expressed interest in forming a consortium to provide coverage. When a futures firm fails, as much as $300 million in customer funds would be protected under the insurers' proposal, with the first $50 million of losses funded in part by brokers.
The industry is attempting to restore confidence after customer money went missing in two of the futures market's biggest failures ever. When MF Global collapsed in 2011, it said $1.6 billion had disappeared. Russell Wasendorf Sr., the founder and chief executive officer of Peregrine, was sentenced to 50 years in prison in January after being convicted of stealing more than $215 million from clients of his brokerage.
Customers of MF Global are poised to get back all the money they lost when the firm failed, the brokerage's bankruptcy trustee said this month.
The industry insurance study isn't a policy recommendation, according to Christopher Culp, a consultant at Compass Lexecon who led the team that conducted the analysis.
Industry Fund
"The objective of the study was to analyze and quantify the potential costs of various scenarios, including a government-mandated solution similar to what exists today in the securities industry as well as voluntary market-based solutions provided by private insurance companies," Culp said in the statement.
The study also examined whether a government-mandated program, like the Securities Investor Protection Corp. in the securities market, would work as an alternative to relying on insurance companies.
Such a program—which would protect $250,000 of investments for all futures users—would require a government backstop until it amassed a $2.5 billion fund. That would take about 55 years, assuming futures brokers were charged a 0.5 percent tax on their annual gross revenue, the study concluded.
–Editors: Nick Baker, Jeff Sutherland


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We're tasked by the state with responding to wildfires. We study weather patterns, drought cycles and the status of vegetation across the state to predict when and where dangerous fire conditions may occur. Should a wildfire ignite, we maintain a statewide network of strategically-placed teams of firefighters and equipment so that we're able to respond quickly when the call comes.
Rural fire departments respond to 80 percent of wildfires in Texas - and they do it with shoestring budgets and almost entirely with volunteers. We help fire departments pay for needed training and equipment and help Texans learn how to prevent, prepare for and protect against wildfire.
With roughly 94 percent of forestland in Texas privately owned, the trees, forests—and the benefits they provide - rests in the hands of thousands of Texans. While keeping the entire state's forested landscape in mind, we inform and educate landowners on sustainable land management practices.
We work with communities to plant, care for and conserve trees. We empower local volunteers to make a positive impact in their communities. We are here to assist when disaster strikes with damage assessments, information, technical assistance and long-term recovery.
We analyze and monitor forests, landscapes and communities for susceptibility to health and wildfire risks. We take action with education, information, diagnosis and treatment. We know that any information we have is more powerful when we give it to you.
We can help quench your thirst for learning. Explore links to identify trees using their leaves and branches, create your own tree trails and experience Texas history from the perspective of a witness tree. Share activities in the classroom to open up a world of conservation for new generations.
Rural fire departments respond to 80 percent of the wildfires in Texas - and they do it with shoestring budgets and a staff often made up almost entirely of volunteers. Sometimes they need a little help. Our programs help fire departments pay for needed training and equipment. We also help communities and property owners learn to prevent, prepare for and protect against wildfire.
We work with communities to plant, care for and conserve trees where people live, work and play. We foster appreciation and stewardship of urban forests empowering local volunteers to make a positive impact in their communities. We are here to assist when disaster strikes. From damage assessment, to information and technical assistance, to long-term recovery - we help property owners and communities thrive.
Our experts research, analyze and carefully monitor forests, landscapes and communities for susceptibility to health and wildfire risks. We take action with education, information, diagnosis and treatment. We know that any information or knowledge we have is more powerful when we give it to you. As a state agency, our responsibility is share what we know.
If you have an unquenchable thirst for learning, we offer programs and information that you may either explore independently or share with a group. Learn about trees, forests, the benefits they provide and the challenges they face. Read stories about trees that are living witness to Texas history. Locate champion trees across the state. And bring activities into the classroom to open a world of conservation to a new generation.
+About Urban & Community Forestry
Tree Planting Guide
Services for Residents / Homeowners
+Services for Local Government
Community Forestry Resources
-After the Storm
Wildland Urban Interface
Tree City USA
Tree Campus USA
Tree Line USA
+Arbor Day
Click here to read how to care for your trees in the cold.
My Tree Be Saved? Tree
First AidChainsaw
Safety Hire an ArboristDrought
Ice Damage and Oak Wilt
Get Help After The FireDisaster
My Tree Be Saved? Chainsaw
SafetyDrought TipsFloodingIce Damage and Oak Wilt
Donate to the TreeCovery Fund to help communities recovery from storms and
other natural disasters.
With no end in sight to the Texas drought, how do we protect our trees? The most important thing you can do for your trees is water – which can be a challenge when trying to conserve the necessary resource. Click here for more about drought and trees.
Find current wildfire activity, Texas fire potential, news and more.
Texas A&M Forest Service offers careers that can take you anywhere from a wildfire line defending lives and homes, to a forest protecting and conserving Texas natural resources to a computer working on a new application to create solutions for Texans across the state.
Outstanding tree care professionals, projects recognized at 2023 Texas Tree Conference
Texas A&M Forest Service and the Texas Chapter of the International Society of Arboriculture (ISAT) recognized the Texas Community Forestry Award winners at the 43rd annual Texas Tree Conference in Waco, Texas.
Texas A&M Forest Service employee earns prestigious national award for fire protection
A Texas A&M Forest Service employee was honored with the Current Achievement Award for Fire Protection during today's National Association of State Foresters Annual Meeting in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Texas A&M Forest Service experts continue to monitor drought conditions in forests
While Texas is feeling some reprieve from the heat this week, slightly cooler temperatures and minimal rainfall will do little to help trees being affected by drought and extreme heat conditions.


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See our list price up front and online for new vehicles in our inventory. We make it easy to quickly find and compare available vehicles, saving you time.
Test drive any model in stock at our dealership. Or, have us bring the vehicle to your home or place of work. Set up a test drive when and where it's most convenient for you.
- Calculate your exact monthly payment.
- Get the value of your trade-in.
- Fill out your credit application.
- Qualify for financing and get your loan approved.
Once you know the vehicle you want, start your Streamlined Purchase through our website.
If you change your mind about a purchase, we want you to be happy. With our 3 Day Worry-Free Exchange,* you can return a vehicle within 3 days and exchange it for another new Hyundai from our extensive model lineup.
*(1) Drive App:
The Hyundai Drive application and program is limited to a few participating dealers only in select markets in CA, MO, RI, LA, MA, MD, VA, IL, TX and FL. Test drive is subject to availability and dealer approval. Hyundai Drive program participants must have a valid U.S. driver's license and no restrictions upon their ability to operate a motor vehicle. The Hyundai Drive application is available on compatible Android™ and iPhone® mobile devices. See participating dealers and hyundaiusa.com/hyundai-drive for full terms and limitations.
* Flexible Test Drive:
Test drive subject to dealer personnel and vehicle availability at a mutually agreed upon date and time.
** Streamlined Purchase:
Financing available for well-qualified buyers.
*** 3-Day Worry-Free Exchange:
Under the 3 Day Worry-Free Exchange, a customer who purchases or leases a new Hyundai vehicle from a participating dealer may return the Hyundai vehicle for any reason to exchange it for another new Hyundai vehicle, provided that: 1) the Hyundai vehicle is returned to the dealership where the vehicle was purchased or leased within three (3) days from the date of purchase/lease (with the three-day period being extended by one day if the final day of the three-day period falls when the dealership is closed); 2) the returned vehicle is in "like new" condition (e.g., the automobile has not been in an accident and is free from modifications, dents, scratches, tears, breaks, cracks, stains, etc.) as determined by the dealer; 3) the customer has driven the returned vehicle less than 300 miles from the date of purchase/lease; and 4) the returned vehicle is free from any outside lien. If the returned vehicle meets all of these requirements, the customer may exchange it for another new Hyundai vehicle, subject to the mutual agreement of the customer and dealer on the terms of the new vehicle purchase or lease. Additional costs may apply to exchanges for a vehicle of greater value. See participating Hyundai dealers or Hyundaiusa.com/ShopperAssurance for details.


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Kiran Banarasi Handwoven Organza Dupatta DCM36
Kiran, a rich Banarasi handwoven organza dupatta with handmade self embossed Gota Lampi and Kiran fringe. An old world charm that is trendy in tradition. This can be customised in a colour of your choice.
Care Instructions
Dry Clean only.
Iron at minimum temperature.
Keep folded in muslin or cotton and refold regularly to allow the natural yarn to breathe.
Lighter fabrics like Organza, Kora Silk, Tissue Silk should be kept on rolls.
We recommend you avoid use of perfume directly on fabric.
Variations in yarn, weave and colour with occasional fiber migration are unique and intrinsic to this handwoven luxury textile. This is a delicate textile and requires care during use, handling and storage. Kindly Note: The original colour may vary slightly due to your device screen settings or photography.
For a more in depth academic introduction to the weave and design, we are just a click or call away.


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Showtimes for Monday, January 16, 2023
Here are the parade and fireworks showtimes for Disney World. Click through to see the full show schedules.
Magic Kingdom
Disney's Hollywood Studios
Disney's Animal Kingdom
Note: Showtimes are updated regularly via disneyworld.com, walt disney world entertainment, and our own sources -- but the schedules may change at any time.
» View Crowd Calendar
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Alley Springs, MO
Median flip profit
Average ARV
Real Estate Investing in Alley Springs, MO
There are 0 investment opportunities in Alley Springs, MO. 0 investment properties are listed for sale and 0 are off-market. As of October 4 the median property price is $0. The average gross profit per flip is $0. Connected Investors has located 0 landlords in the area that own a total of 0 rental properties.
Alley Springs, MO currently has 0 vacant properties, 0 pre-foreclosures, and 0 other types of investment properties. The banks are holding 0 REO properties they have not yet been listed.
Find properties to flip in Alley Springs, MO. Find cheap houses for sale that can be wholesaled or purchased below market value. Browse the Connected Investors marketplace to locate vacant properties, foreclosures, pre-foreclosures, REO properties, bank owned, probate, courthouse auctions, online auctions, and houses offered by wholesalers. Signup to Connected Investors for free.
Take part in real estate discussions inside Connected Investors. Participate in real estate forums, join real estate investment groups in Alley Springs, MO and grow your network inside Connected Investors, the real estate investors social network & marketplace.
Hey I'm on here looking for some owner financing homes and buy and hold in Saint Louis North county
Hello Everyone! Are you looking for more properties in the Kansas City area? I get 40+ properties in and around KC every month. Each property I send will be accompanied by a property analysis packet detailing comps, purchase price, tax info, hoa dues, and more helpful information. It doesn't cost anything to receive my exclusive off-market ...More
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Review the latest real estate investing articles and free courses designed to help you learn how to find, fund, and flip investment properties.
Imagine making an average of $11k per house flip, without ever making renovations to the property. Now imagine doing that 24 times over the course of 18 months as a brand-new real estate investor. This is exactly what Eudania Burrell has ...
In 2019 Connected Investors launched PiN, a marketplace of UNLISTED properties highly likely to sell at deep discounts. PiN is the ultimate tool for real estate investors & the world's first real estate software that can be voice-activated. Since the launch ...
In the first ever episode of The Real Estate Cash Chronicles, Connected Investors' Patrick Giarelli and Luke Wishmyer discuss the process by which Luke managed to flip thirty rentals using none of his own capital ...
Rental property cash flow is the key to financial freedom, controlling your life, and being able to retire. In this episode, our special guest brings a new strategy for creating rental property cash flow. ...


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This picture was submitted to "Black & White Wednesday", an event created by Susan at "The Well-Seasoned Cook". It will be hosted on the 27th of February by Simona at "Briciole" (click here in order to see who is hosting the next roundup).
I have the pleasure to announce that I have been interviewed by my very good friend, lovely ex-neighbor and talented artist Jessica Brogan! So, if you want to learn a little more about me, then head over to her wonderful blog.


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Maria. Age: 30. Hello dear one! My name is Masha. I am an elegant and sensual, the perfect company to share the best moments of pleasure. I like to seduce my guest and to see it enjoying....Do not doubt it and allow you to surprise.
A Teen on the Beach: part 3 - nudist sixteen oral first time
Zarina. Age: 30. Gentlemen, Let me start off by saying your pleasure and relaxation is my top priority. I cater to gentlemen that love to indulge in adventures and naughty fantasies!