text:
This article may require a little stage setting before its value can be appreciated. Michael Brown, who lives in South Africa, is here describing what is happening as we approach 2012.
Alchemy of the Heart: Transform Turmoil into Peace Through Emotional Integration is a book he has written. Here is its central point:
"The causal point of the things that occur in our everyday experience isn't outside of us in the actions of other, but within each of us. During our early years, we are imprinted by the emotional condition of those responsible for us. Their emotional state overlays the essence of who we are, so that we learn to behave like them instead of growing up to be ourselves.
"In Alchemy of the Heart, we are asked to become conscious of the ways we were imprinted and how these imprints drive our behavior. Our guide in achieving this course correction is the heart. The heart is our bridge to the vibrational dimension of reality, which is experienced as consciousness."
I have, elsewhere, called what he is discussing "competing unfinished business by being with it or present to it as an observer."
What he is discussing is how us passing through a portal means that the universe is raising our unfinished business for it to be completed prior to Ascension in 2012 (or sooner). In other words, passing through a portal is not all sweetness and light. The Earth changes that are happening around us, and for him recent events in South Africa, are one of the portals that the South African population is passing through at the present time.
I heartily recommend that we take his point of view to heart. The very crises we are passing through at the moment are helping us to clear our karma in preparation for Ascension.
The Golden Heart
A Blog by Michael Brown
Apr 28, 2010
Alchemy of The Heart is about an approach into and through a portal. Let's call this portal The Golden Heart, 2012—or Our Human Awakening, or Evolution of a Species—simply to give it a tangible point of reference. Alchemy of the Heart is a roadmap for navigating such an experience.
Our challenge right now however is that many of us wouldn't recognize a portal even if it bit us on the butt. We are so indoctrinated by our own mental fantasies that the real thing has become invisible to us. What we may not yet fully realize is that it is our awareness that moves through the portal—and it is our moment-to-moment experience that is the portal itself.
This movement takes place within us and is mirrored as our shifting experience within the physical, mental, and emotional world in which we are wrapped. Because of fantasy machines like Hollywood, which may be wonderfully entertaining, we commit the error of expecting our portal encounter to be an externalized movement through some physical device—or maybe seeing something like an opening of light in the sky with a choir of radiant angels standing on each side singing, "Hallelujah!"
What we definitely don't expect to see as we approach and move through the portal is exactly what is happening in the world right now. We are now in a fast final approach into a massive portal, and the invitation is to participate fully in the experience. But we cannot do this if we don't even recognize what a portal is. Many of us are actually trying to push our awareness away from this portal encounter, instead attempting to manipulate what is currently unfolding to try and make something else happen.
In the past month the Sun gave us a good blast of solar love. It initiated this during the Easter weekend. Just examine your 2010 Easter experience. Bet you got crucified a few times during and since then.
Let me share our collective South African experience of this. We were already being set up here for mass processing in the weeks before, when the ANC Youth Leader, Julius Malema, started inciting fear by singing ApartHate songs about killing white farmers. Many farmers have already been murdered, so this is already a big fear button. He then went to visit Robert Mugabe, colonialist hating extraordinaire, which is like thrown gasoline on a fire. Fear began surfacing throughout the white community, especially among the very conservative sector.
Then, while Malema was in Zimbabwe talking to Mugabe about nationalizing anything white-owned, Eugene Terreblanche—the charismatic leader of the AWB, a fringe group of the Afrikaans rightwing community—was murdered in his bedroom by two of his black farm workers.
Fear and anger immediately raised their heads in all sectors of the society. Old unintegrated grief was triggered from the long history of ApartHate. The country suddenly felt like 1976 again. White people started talking about leaving the country again. Rage, fear, and mistrust descended upon the land.
However, what it's hard to see when we cannot recognize a portal, is that this was not a turn for the worst. This was what was required as we South Africans approach the portal through the resonance of our unintegrated imprinting: to consciously face a reflection of our country's unresolved karma.
This instance in our current South African experience is really what the portal looks like as we approach it on an individual and national perceptual plane, especially when we are still entertaining massive amounts of unintegrated emotional imprinting around ApartHate.
We don't see stereotypical biblical angels on each side of the entrance. We see angels all right, but angels representing what we have to resolve in order to move consciously through the opportunities offered by our current human experience.
When we still have a past to die to, we see angels of death, not angels of life. These portal angels deliberately hold a mirror up to us as we make our approach, and reflected in it are the very things intended to liberate us from our illusions.
So, for us South Africans, the recent angels on each side to the portal are Eugene Terreblanche and Julius Malema. The whites look at Julius Malema and see their unresolved fear, anger, and grief related to their past experience in this country. The blacks look at Eugene Terreblanche and see their unintegrated fear, anger, and grief related to their unresolved past. The coloreds look at them both and see what they see.
It isn't cut-and-dried because there are many in the white, black, Indian, and colored population who walk the middle road and who, when confronted with the unresolved black-white polarities, see something particular to their past experience.
These portal angels show us what needs to be now if we are to participate as fully as possible in the great approach to full vibrational awareness.
Do we attack what we see? Do we run from what we see? Do we respond by consciously integrating what we see?
South Africa hasn't been alone in facing its demons. Every individual, community, corporation, and country in the world is facing its required angels. Ask the Catholic Church and Wall Street.
On the day of the volcanic eruption in Iceland, we were bombarded by yet another magnetic field flux as the sun again dished out love to earth. This volcanic eruption facilitated millions into unexpected but required personal, national, and international processing. It facilitated Europe into process, along with all those tentacle countries it serves. Suddenly people either couldn't move or had to move in ways that caused unexpectedly long journeys. This volcano served as the current portal angel for millions.
How much fear, anger, and grief was triggered by this event? How many people were stopped in their tracks and, possibly for the first time in their life, facilitated into having no choice but to "just be" where they were?
The reality is that every individual human being, every living creature—indeed, this entire planet—is currently approaching the entry into and through a vibrational portal. Each sentient being is having their own experience of the event according to what they are still resisting within themselves.
For us humans, each moment of this part of the journey is an opportunity to enter the body fully, to get out of living only in the head, and to lighten the imprinted generational load of the heart.
I am a portal just as you are. Like you, my awareness is approaching this portal right now. The experience I am having in each moment is this approach. Am I able to respond to it, or am I going to continue behaving as if it isn't supposed to be happening? Because this choice determines the quality of the ride.
Do I realize that moving through the portal consciously hinges upon being able to discern the difference between what I want and what I require?
As I journey through Alchemy of the Heart on this website, this is the point of view I am moving from. This book is a means of consciously navigating through the portal of our current shift. It's a perceptual roadmap.
As we continue moving through 2010, we are likely going to transition through many more event horizons. Other angels will take the place of Julius Malema and Eugene Terreblanche for us South Africans—just as other angels will take the place of the Iceland volcano, and for whatever has been reflecting what is as yet unresolved for you. The universe provides whatever is required to get the job done. Whatever it takes for heaven's sakes.
There is nowhere to run because the portal is all around us in every moment. Within us, our direct connection to our relationship with the portal is through the heart. Outside of us, the portal is represented by the Sun. We are to feel our way through it, each of us traveling alone, yet intimately connected. We either integrate our karma or drown in our drama.
I am up for the ride. I will be using Alchemy of the Heart as a medium to share what insights I have as I make my own journey. May it inspire you to navigate yours as consciously as possible.
Onward, inward, and upward then.


text:
Osaka, Japan (SportsNetwork.com) - Former champion Samantha Stosur was among the winners Monday in the first round of the HP Open, while top-seeded Jelena Jankovic withdrew from the tournament.
Jankovic, coming off a loss to Serena Williams on Sunday in the final of the China Open, cited a left hip injury as the reason for her withdrawal. France's Kristina Mladenovic was elevated to a ninth seed for the event and took Jankovic's place on the top line of the draw.
Stosur, meanwhile, is this week's third seed and cruised past Sweden's Johanna Larsson, 6-4, 6-2, on Monday. The Aussie won this event in 2009 and was the runner-up in 2011.
Last year's champion, Heather Watson of Great Britain, was eliminated Monday by eighth-seeded Monica Puig. The native of Puerto Rico claimed a 6-4, 6-4 victory and will next face Japanese wild card Kurumi Nara, a 6-3, 6-2 winner over France's Caroline Garcia.
Other winners Monday were fifth-seeded Eugenie Bouchard of Canada and Japan's Misaki Doi. Bouchard had little trouble in a 6-3, 6-0 rout of American Varvara Lepchenko, while Doi thumped Spain's Silvia Soler-Espinosa, 6-1, 6-2.
The top player for this event is now second-seeded German Sabine Lisicki. She'll face South Africa's Chanelle Scheepers in the first round on Tuesday.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
When the economy was flush, Michael Patrick King produced a little show called Sex And The City, where women lived in a New York full of champagne brunches, lavish parties and Manolo Blahniks. Last night, CBS aired King's latest show, 2 Broke Girls, where New York gals wait tables, carry tasers and work two jobs. Times, they are a changing.
Of course, there were always non-rich (and non-white!) people in New York, they just weren't considered worth thinking about back in SATC's heyday. On 2 Broke Girls, the kind of women who took center stage on SATC — the rich and the privileged — are mocked.
Kat Dennings plays Max, a bitchy, sarcastic, gum-chewing waitress who hates hipsters and likes to bake cupcakes. Beth Behrs plays Caroline, the daughter of a Bernie Madoff-type tycoon; she was born rich and went to Wharton but her family's assets have been seized and she's, you guessed it, broke. Caroline ends up waiting tables at the same Brooklyn diner where Max works, and worlds collide, etc. Plus, Max's day job is babysitting for a superrich young mom who's too polished and manicured to lift a finger and pick up her infant twins, Brad and Angelina — cue more upper-class mockery.
The end of the pilot episode sees Max and Caroline moving in together and starting a business plan: If they mark up Max's cupcakes, they can save enough cash to rent a storefront and start a bakery business. Since it seems like so many women on sitcoms are wives, girlfriends or moms, it's refreshing to see ladies with relatable issues: career dreams and money issues. (Also, at one point, Max and Caroline are discussing a man's anatomy, specifically the curves that lead from the lower abs to the pubes, and Max says, "I don't know what those are called, but they make smart girls stupid.")
The show tries very hard to show how hip it is, dropping semen, Schwarzenegger, and Arcade Fire jokes, and showing graffiti-scrawled subways (we haven't had spray paint in our trains for a decade or so, by the by). Unfortunately, they didn't get the memo about the "cool" way to do a sitcom now: Kill the laugh track. 2 Broke Girls is taped in front of a studio audience, but the canned laughter feels forced and robs the funny moments of humor. Since many hit shows — 30 Rock, Parks And Recreation, The Office — have figured out the standards of television comedy have changed, especially when it comes to laugh tracks, 2 Broke Girls feels weirdly retro, even as it tries to be so very "now."
But the question remains: Do audiences want to see smart-ass ladies talking dirty on TV, or would they rather watch idiot teen moms, housewives, and pageant kids? Keep an eye on the ratings if you're looking for an answer.


text:
It's not only those with brittle, unmanageable or dry hair that could benefit from a deep condition. Every hair type could do with some extra TLC, and this guide will let you know exactly what you'll need and what's involved in giving yourself a professional treatment in the comfort of your own home!
What You'll Need:
- Deep Conditioner
- Comb
- 4 - 6 Hair Clips
- Plastic Shower Cap or Plastic Wrap
- Shampoo
- 2 Towels
Deep conditioning is a great hair habit to get into because it treats the outer layers of your hair strands. These are the layers that make your hair look dull or frizzy when they are damaged from styling, wear and tear and outside elements. When you deep condition the outer layer of your hair, especially if you do it regularly, you temporarily repair the damage and your hair becomes healthier, smoother and shinier looking.
Hair tip: while deep conditioning your hair goes a long way to improving the look and strength of your hair, it cannot cure damaged locks. Truly damaged hair can only be cured by cutting off the damaged strands and letting new, healthier growth take its place.
If you're not sure what a deep conditioner is, or what to buy, here are some tips…
Look for the words "Deep Conditioner" on the bottle and ensure that's what you get. Using just a normal conditioner, a crème rinse or a hot oil treatment will not give you the same benefits that a true deep conditioner will.
Check the label to see what the treatment time is. All individual products have their own suggestions, but generally, a deep conditioner should be left on for around 15-20 minutes. If the product you're looking at says only 5 minutes, it's not a true deep conditioner.
How to Deep Condition Your Hair
1. With your supplies on hand, comb your locks to get out any tangles.
2. Wash your hair with shampoo to ensure it's clean and then towel dry it.
3. Comb your hair and then section it into 4-6 sections, depending on the length and thickness of your strands. Clip away all sections except for your starting section.
Hair tip: sectioning your hair will allow you to work with smaller areas of hair at once, ensuring you'll cover all strands equally.
4. Apply a thin coat of the conditioner to your first section of hair. Start at your scalp and go all the way to the ends. Remembering to cover your scalp as well as your hair will give your scalp (which can also get dry) some TLC too. Once your hair is covered, lay the section back against your head.
5. Repeat in each section until all of your hair is covered in deep conditioner.
6. When all sections are complete, put a plastic shower cap or plastic wrap around your hair, ensuring every strand is tucked in.
7. Next we apply some heat. If you have a hood dryer, set it to medium and sit under it for the treatment time (around 20 minutes). If you don't have a hood dyer, throw a clean towel into the dryer or the microwave to heat up, and then wrap it around your head for the suggested time.
Hair tip: heat will help to open up your hair shaft and allow the deep conditioner to penetrate as far as into your hair layers as it can.
8. When your treatment time is over, remove the towel and plastic cap/wrap from your head and then use cool water to rinse your hair. The water needs to be cool (the cooler, the better) so that your hair shaft closes and leaves as much moisture from the treatment trapped in your strands as it can. If you use hot water, all you'll do is open up your hair shaft and lose all the great moisture you've just added.
9. Once the deep conditioner has been removed completely from your hair (it may take a few rinses to get the treatment completely out, but it's worth it), towel dry your locks gently and then style your hair as you normally would. Your locks should now be super soft and shiny!


text:
July 23, 2006
173 comments:
- Mridula said...
And what is this suppose to mean? Goodbye to what?
- July 23, 2006 11:24 AM
- July 23, 2006 11:28 AM
- wise donkey said...
But why?
& to what
this thought?
- July 23, 2006 11:38 AM
- san said...
It means Dilip is flighty enough that he'll abandon whatever he's doing to flit off on a whim to find his latest new calling in life, with hardly a word.
That's what you do when you're Daddy's spoiled little brat.
- July 23, 2006 12:25 PM
Just need to know whether I should or shouldn't continue you to keep you in my rss reader
- July 23, 2006 12:43 PM
Thank you so much!
- July 23, 2006 1:23 PM
Goodbye. Come again!
- July 23, 2006 1:51 PM
this is for san.
san, am still waiting to hear from you.
for the others,
at a previous post (http://dcubed.blogspot.com/2006/07/what-this-is-about.html#comments) comrade san announced that the gujarat riots were not premeditated. that the cops did their utmost to stem the violence, and so on. i am still waiting for him to substantiate these claims.
san, old son, having exercised your right to free speech, do revert.
surely you are not so spoilt that you would make irresponsible comments and then hare off without backing them up.
warmest regds,
anon 1118
- July 23, 2006 2:33 PM
- July 23, 2006 2:34 PM
- km said...
If this has anything to do with those mango pickles I once promised to send you, let me assure you that the delivery truck has just left the building.
- July 23, 2006 7:11 PM
- kuffir said...
this can't happen..a cigarette doesn't tell a smoker : i quit.
- July 23, 2006 8:14 PM
I'm sure Dilip's post is directed at the trolls and not the rest of us
- July 24, 2006 2:09 AM
- vamanan said...
- This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
- July 24, 2006 4:00 AM
- vamanan said...
san is a genius who worships rajeev srinivasan's phallus. don't ask him questions. he does not know how to answer. he knows only to make statements.
- July 24, 2006 4:01 AM
- Neela said...
shivam: how confident we are that we are not trolls. perhaps you think we are the Billygoats Gruff?
- July 24, 2006 9:33 AM
- Bombay Addict said...
D3 - come back ! all is forgiven !
- July 24, 2006 1:21 PM
Seems Dilip has decided to bid adieu to to blogspot. Maybe he meant he'll blog at http://dcubed.wordpress.com/.
- July 24, 2006 3:54 PM
What kinda sick joke is this?
- July 25, 2006 12:14 AM
anon 1118 :
Maybe the cop did not do their utmost in Godhara. Some 30 odd cops who died in the riots must have used the cover of riots to commit suicide and collect insurance money and posthomoous medals. You might have unearthed a real plot here. I wish Dilip writes about those cops who died in Godhara.
Comeback now Dilip.
- July 25, 2006 12:17 AM
Dilip, you've been "net-scaped".
- July 25, 2006 1:15 AM
hist post title forecasting is on thew roll..
- July 25, 2006 1:30 AM
- Pareshaan said...
Wassup boss?
- July 25, 2006 7:35 AM
- san said...
anon and vamanon, I'm here, unlike Dilip
Perhaps he's off "finding the real killers" a la OJ Simpson.
go ahead anon, what have you said that's worth responding to? anything more than the usual blather?
- July 25, 2006 10:08 AM
- 30in2005 said...
What what? You are one of the most inspiring writer in the blogworld. I hope 'Goodbye' does not mean what it implies
- July 25, 2006 4:57 PM
Good riddance.
- July 25, 2006 8:42 PM
hi! delurking now...i've been reading your blog for ages... and disappointed as i am, i guess i understand ... what with readers like mister anonymous above.
- July 25, 2006 10:11 PM
you are back.
about a week ago, i asked you to substantiate what you declared earlier -- about the riots in gujarat not being premeditated. you are still to. do try and answer that question, instead of trying to run a very valid question down as blather.
ps - you will notice the carefully polite tone. it would be child's play to sit and hurl abuse back at you. i do not wish to do that. i want to discuss this issue. i want to understand whether you or i is wrong in his thinking about gujarat. reply.
- July 26, 2006 12:26 AM
Godhra was indeed premeditated.
For details check:
Who Knew About Godhra Riots - And Other Mysteries
- July 26, 2006 12:48 AM
Welcome to The Journal of Contemporary Obituaries,
Good Bye!
Good Bye is an opinionated quarterly magazine which chronicles the dead – famous, infamous and non-famous.
The magazine is in hiatus while the editor adjusts to his new job as Obituaries Editor of the New York Sun. He hopes to be back with new obits soon.
(Do I get the prize, Uncle?)
- July 26, 2006 1:45 AM
i am asking about the gujarat riots. not godhra (am reading up on that already).
- July 26, 2006 8:52 AM
Is this the end of Mr.DDS? The man who is the collectively the voice of our nation?
Wait, maybe you're just the voice of our Jehadists, Communists, and sundry other malcontents.
Bye. You won't be missed.
- July 26, 2006 10:13 AM
Lines #0
- hey bro, What is this Goodbye?
-When these English people go that is called goodbaee
-But where do these English go?
-Oh, Oh Stop Stop.
-Should I stop? If you insist...
- July 26, 2006 4:51 PM
yaar. kitna intezaar karvaoogey?
i wait and wait for you to enlighten me.
- July 27, 2006 10:23 AM
- Anil said...
Dilip : All the best. Thanks for all the wonderful writings you have shared.
- July 27, 2006 10:33 AM
- san said...
anon, on the contrary, it is I who am waiting for evidence from you. I won't run around to please you. If you have an argument to make, then you can provide the evidence to back it up. I don't accept the premise that you have the truth by default, and that it's upto others to prove you wrong. So you go ahead and make your case.
- July 27, 2006 11:27 AM
- san said...
looks like the flighty D'Souza has bailed out. How unsurprising.
- July 27, 2006 11:28 AM
san, yo no soy "Anon 1118". I am not Anon 1118. Entiendes? Understand?
But in this comment you said -- "Gujarat riots were a pre-meditated attack? Garbage -- it was a riot."
Since then, Anon 1118 has asked you here, here, here, here, here, here and here to substantiate your claim that the Gujarat riots were not premeditated. Seven times. Nowhere have you answered.
Now you pop up and say "it is I who am waiting for evidence from you."
Please substantiate your claim. There's a good lad.
- July 27, 2006 12:49 PM
- anon1118 said...
anon at 1249,
this is hugely appreciated.
anon 1118
anon 1249 said what i would have. do revert.
anon 1118
- July 27, 2006 3:21 PM
Goodbye, Mr. Chips. Of course your spirit lives on as we comment here, blogging through tough times without you.
A few seeds. The farmer, the sun ... and the wholly spirit is produced by fermentation. Which is what we are doing without you.
See you later, much later, on the day of razor-action. Until then we believe and continue with faith, armin'.
- July 28, 2006 12:23 AM
have a feeling you shifting to your own domain :-)
- July 28, 2006 12:28 AM
- Saraansh said...
What next, after goodbye???
- July 28, 2006 12:44 AM
Came to this really late. I will surely miss the discussions we have had - though we have disagreed many times. Please do come back.
- July 28, 2006 9:37 AM
Anon 1118, you see? san will not substantiate his claim. These are fellows you'r dealing with who have no substance in them anyway.
Prove me wrong, san. Substantiate that claim, please.
- July 28, 2006 4:03 PM
Seems like our dcubed has taken identity of anon118 to hunt san
anon118: You get some after you give some. Get it? It's a two way street.
- July 28, 2006 10:47 PM
- anon1118 said...
dear anonymous,
i am not the one going around making assertions about gujarat. young san is. on him falleth the onus for substantiation.
more seriously, i am not hounding san out of spite or something. there is a larger purpose for this. as www.crazyfinger.org wrote recently, most comments left on blogs are worse than useless. opinions masquerading as facts. that serves no purpose at all.
let us argue, by all means, but it will be good if we can argue on the basis of data and facts. not with these empty assertions and namecalling.
it is possible that the data san cites will clash with the data i will marshall. but isn't that divergence itself deserving of a closer look? the riots in gujarat could not have been both premeditated and, cannot think of the right word here, "unpremeditated".
in the internet, in all these wonderfully opinionated blogs, we have a medium that can put us in touch with people who think very differently from us. from there on, we have two options. we can rain abuse on them for not thinking the way we do. or try and understand why they think differently.
that is kind of it. i am, incidentally, not dilip, though i do know him.
anon 1118
- July 29, 2006 11:27 PM
- san said...
Haha, I love these juvenile delinquents, who stupidly hope to get others to run around to impress them.
What are you, in kindergarten? Little kiddies, I'm not running around for you. I reject the premise of your argument that you're right unless I prove you wrong. I think the public knows who's right, and that's why Modi keeps getting re-elected.
You're right, D'Souza has suddenly disappeared to make room for his alter-ego "anon1118"
The kid is a schizo.
Dr Jerkyll and Mr Hide.
"I'm not a leftist or a rightist -- I'm a schizo. I'm Dilip D'Souza."
What a wackjob this kid is? And this is supposed to be the future of secularism? Nah, as somebody who understands what genuine secularism is supposed to be about, rather than the tripe D'Souza peddles, I'm offended that this punk calls himself a secularist, when he's just a pseudo knockoff.
- July 30, 2006 9:43 AM
- Slogan Murugan said...
Typist. It was nice reading your blog.Hope to read more from you in a new avtaar somewhere else.
- July 30, 2006 10:29 AM
Feature common to the san's of this world:-- they will always wriggle. They will never ever answer a question. They will always twist any and everything around. Anon1118, you have patience in buckets.
I've followed dcubed's (dilip) bloigging for little more than a year. One pattern has repeted many times. One person will get into an argument with dcubed. At some point, a second person will either agree with dcubed and-or challenge the first person.
Then immeditely, the first person will announce that dcubed and the second person are one and the same. I have seen this has happened with some Purvi, one Sukumar Nair, Shivam Vij, Illogical Triusm, Chetan, somebody on Gaurav's blog. May be more. All got accused of being same person as dcubed.
Now same thing again, san is saying anon 1118 is same as dcubed.
Please note that I am not dcubed, I am not anon1118. But I know san will say I am.
- July 30, 2006 3:39 PM
- anon1118 said...
hey san.
maybe we should escalate this a bit. will be more fun. :-)
to begin with, where the sandas (sorry, could not resist that) did you get this idea that i am suggesting that i know what is right about gujarat. and that you are wrong. and that the onus is upon you to prove me wrong. my premise is that only one of us can be right about gujarat. i wrote as much in my previous comment.
and since it is you who bravely stepped forth and made that claim about gujarat not being premeditated, i asked you to prove that statement.
anyway, chalta hain, let us ignore these cute little aspersions you cast for a while and move on, let me briefly share my position on the riots. maybe that will get you to share your account of what happened.
i believe that while godhra served as the trigger, the riots themselves were premeditated. i say so because of what i have read, and heard from people like shiv visvanathan who are studying the aftermath of the riots -- the rioters, surprisingly large numbers of them, many of them wearing saffron banians and khaki chaddis, were equipped with voter lists; muslims shops and houses were selectively targeted while the adjoining hindu shops and houses remained untouched; if one group doing the rioting, another was supplying them with supplies -- petrol, kerosene, LPG cylinders, swords, passing down reloaded weapons; the swords themselves are an interesting thought, i am not sure how many people routinely keep swords at home. you said something about the police. and i think what happened to ehsan jafri pretty much sums up what the cops were doing.
there. that is my version of what happened. i think narendra modi's government is a genocidal regime. the fact that he won the elections is either here nor there - the state has a hindu majority. now, the ball is back in your court. what do you say happened?
i am wondering, as i type this, if you will answer seriously, refuting my points, or if you will restrict yourself to mocking me and poor dilip (who seems to get abused even when he doesn't write anything).
let us see. :-)
- July 30, 2006 3:50 PM
- anon1118 said...
anon at 339,
tell me. wouldn't you like to obtain that transquil state of mind where you can ignore the abuse people hurl at you, and stay focused?
comrade san is helping me get there. :-)
- July 30, 2006 4:02 PM
I've been following the discussion on your Airports post at the Other Half, and I thoroughly enjoyed how people poked holes in your Leftist arguements to the point where you had to shut down the comments section.
Maybe you should quit writing there as well.
- July 31, 2006 1:29 AM
the last anonymous has been following discussions on theotherindia on a post about airport privatisation when the post was made so long ago, the discussions got over ages ago.
now wonder then that he is anonymous!
- July 31, 2006 3:57 AM
While I share your thoughts about Modi government's complicity, calling it a genocide is going a tad too far. Let us not paste labels so easily that they actually devalue their import. As far as facts go, around 700 Muslims and 240 Hindus were killed in the riots according to the Home minister of the present government. Most of the Hindus killed were in police firing, of course the police action was delayed and certainly charges of it being ineffectual would be fair, but to claim that it was a state sponsered genocide would be incorrect in my opinion. Also, many times, what actually happened in lost in stray incidents which define a said situation for us. For example, all of us know about the Merrut riots of 1987 and how PAC enacted a genocide against Muslims. Here is a PUCL report about the same, which is scathing in its criticizm of PAC but also brings to light a lot of other factors which a lot of may not ever know
On a side note, I wonder how no one ever worried about the ethnic cleansing of Hindus from Kashmir, not a small figure-300,000 of them. As I asked once, how many people will write about it?
- July 31, 2006 7:49 AM
- anon1118 said...
dear confused,
thanks for your mail. you said calling gujarat a state sponsored genocide is incorrect. fair enough. i need to understand where you are coming from on this. are you objecting to "state sponsored" and "genocide", or just to "genocide"?
if the latter, i used genocide deliberately. huge question here -- should mass murders be classified according to the dead they leave behind (a genocide only if more than a million have been killed; ethnic cleansing if between 50,000-100,000 dead; etc). or according to the underlying logic - were members of one community indiscriminatingly targeted and killed (with the blessings of the state).
and when i define it thus, does this in any way diminish what rwanda and the jews went through? i don't think so. but would like to hear your views on this.
and, if you are objecting to all three words (state, sponsored and genocide), then, yes, absolutely, maybe an incomplete account of what happened in gujarat got captured, and just because there is no other version, people like me believe in the version that exists. it is definitely possible*.
which is why i have been badgering old san. he clearly thinks that my interpretation of gujarat is poppycock. i want to understand why he thinks so. who knows, maybe he will cite some evidence that will make me reexamine everything i hold to be true.
i am a journalist. and one thing i have learnt in all these years is that it is essential to investigate these contradictions that crop up all the time -- that is where the truth always lies. the media is active on gujarat, and, as you say, much less so on the kashmiri hindus. is that true? if so, why? what about the riots in gujarat? were they premeditated? or were they not? both versions cannot be true.
* how the media goes about deciding which tiny fraction of the total information it gets everyday into news is another depressing question, innit?
- July 31, 2006 10:00 AM
> "how no one ever worried about the ethnic
> cleansing of Hindus from Kashmir, not a small
> figure-300,000 of them. As I asked once, how
> many people will write about it?"
many people have worried, have written and will write about it. after all, how do you know about that?
this commenter does not like the leftist (economics-wise) politics of the owner of this blog. but he has himself visited kashmir pundit camps and written about their condition sevral times. (i think one was in lajjpat nagar in delhi).
but what does that have to do with godhra/gujrat?
when will we get past the "you did not write about that"/"you did not condemn that" business?
that's why I thank anony 1118 for trying to stick to the debate and inviting others (san) to do the same.
- July 31, 2006 11:07 AM
> the fact that Islamists targeted Hindus in all of
> them; whereas in Guj riots 300 Hindus died
> along with 800 Muslims.
in mumbai train blasts which you say "targeted hindus", how many muslims died along with how many hindus?
godhra was terrorism targeted on hindus. yes. so what would you call best bakery, about 15 killed? or gulberg society (ehsaan jaffrey), about 30 killed? please do answer.
ot: just noticed there is another nikhil commented on this page (jul 28 937). note i am not him. I have this comment and previous one (jul 31 1107) only.
- July 31, 2006 12:08 PM
He ended the fun. Did he die?
- July 31, 2006 1:29 PM
That's all that DDS posted.Is he such a polarising figure that this simple post leads us to heavy discussions about godhra and pseudo-secularism?
- July 31, 2006 1:34 PM
Pole rising figure, did you say? But he ended the fun.
- July 31, 2006 1:55 PM
Hi anon1118,
Ok. Here is my clarification.
I object to both, state sponsered and genocide.
State-sponsored-It is an undeniable fact that modi's government's role was less than desirable in the riots. However, I would define state sponsered as when instruments of the state actively take part in riots against one particular community. The police in Gujarat may have reacted slowly but it surely did, most of the Hindus who were killed actually died in police firing. Contrast this to the 1984 anti-sikh riots, 3000 sikhs were killed in 3 days, how many of the rioters were killed in police firing? Not even one! According the accounts I have read, the Army was not deliberately called out so the rioters could have a field day. Yes, I would surely lay the charge of Modi government being ineffectual in its initial reaction to the riots and I am indeed sad that he ever got re-elected. I find his brand of religion based politics but no more despicable than I find Laloos and Mulayams with their shameless pandering to the Muslim religious right. But then, they are secular heroes in this country!
Genocide- The point to understand is that words like genocide carry a certain meaning only because they are used sparingly. One cannot equate 8 million Jews being exterminated in prison camps to what happened in Gujarat. It is not only about the numbers though it does play a part in my classification. It is also about how the state actors played out, did the police in Gujarat lock up Muslims in camps and send them to poison gas chambers? Was the state ''actively'' involved in the said operation. By your definition, we would have about 1 million genocides in last 50 years all over the world, in my opinion when that happens the word simply loses its horrifying power. Of course, in a state sponsered genocide the police would not be taking ''any'' action against the rioters but would actively participate in them.
The distinction of the role of the state is important, otherwise we can lay the charge that the recent Mumbai blasts are state sponsered because it failed to prevent attacks against its own citizens, something which it of course has failed to do for last 15 years.
Finally here is my question and I would like a pointed reply. You are a journalist, right? How many times you have written about the plight of Kashmiri Pandits? How many times you have called it genocide, ethnic cleansing? By ''you'' I mean the mainstream journalists in India, how many column inches they devote to them? Why? After the Mumbai blasts, I have seen many reports of how the Mumbai blasts were a result of Gujarat riots. By that yardstick, all kashmiri Pandits should have the right to become suicide bombers. No? IMO, the reason why the MSM will never cover their plight is because it knows they never will and thus do not threaten the status quo. So what is the message here? If you want to be heard, adopt the path of violence and suddenly people will find justification for your actions?
- July 31, 2006 6:55 PM
ow do I know about it? Dude, I read the newspapers everyday. Please point out to the last column in a mainstream publication which deals with their plight. Kindly do that. Or for that matter in a mainstream blog. I would be glad.
The reason why brought it up is because I see so much double standards, words like genocide are bandied about as soon as Gujarat is mentioned but talk about Kashmiri Hindus and all of them go back to sleep. Why?
- July 31, 2006 7:01 PM
Hmm... let's crunch the numbers, shall we?
1. Godhra : 58 kar sevaks killed in an unprovoked attack.
2. In the subsequent riots, 900 Muslims killed along with 300 Hindus.
3. This is labelled as a genocide by "secular" forces.
4. Along comes anon1118, who tries to pick a fight with san, over the post-Godhra riots, while completely ingoring the Godhra incident. That incident is a small Hindu footnote in his secular mind.
- July 31, 2006 7:20 PM
anon1118 is a journalist!!! And he doesn't understand the terms 'genocide'.
Hmmmm... why am I not surprised.
anon1118 dear, please read this and see if this article sheds any light for you. Good luck on future reporting.
UNDP is ignorant and insolent
- August 01, 2006 3:11 AM
Best of DDS?
Hope this goodbye isnt as permanent as it comes across here; but I think this would be a good time to remember the best stuff he wrote. How about it?
Could you post links to what you consider his best articles?
My vote is for a small series he wrote abt 5-6 years ago on rediff, where he actually tried to bridge the left-right divide. I'm trying to trace it and will post the link if I get it.
Perhaps one of very few occasions, he actually conceded some validity in some of the right-wing positions.
From what I remember the right -wingers then on rediff ignored this effort (RS) or almost shouted him down (VB) :-(
- August 01, 2006 9:49 AM
- anon1118 said...
good morning, everyone.
before i start, a message for the einstein who wrote this...
July 31, 2006 12:20 PM
Anonymous said...
He ended the fun. Did he die?
message - dude, it gives me great pleasure to reiterate the same sentiment back to your family. :-)
confused, to begin with, i really appreciate the tone in which you phrase your arguments. makes one hope that the conversation might actually end in better understanding of the alternate viewpoint. and so, thanks.
and now, here is what i think. there are, broadly, three points that i can make.
the first is short and pithy. will make that first. i take your point on genocide. maybe some words, like the nuclear option, should be used only as a last resort
two. this question of kashmiri hindus and the media that crops up everytime we talk about gujarat. i don't know too much about the media treatment that the kashmiri hindus have received. and maybe the media does don a pro-muslim filter while reporting on this country's secular fabric. will take your word for it. i move in business journalism circles and i have resultedly zero exposure to prevailing media mindsets about coverage for the kashmiri hindus vs the muslims.
that said, i definitely need to understand this better (this is the big question -- rabid communalism masquerading as secularism). here is my question. when you and many of the others raise this point about the kashmiri hindus, about the people who were burnt alive in that compartment at godhra, why do you raise that in this context?
i am not able to phrase this question well enough. maybe your answer will help me understand your position better. basically, the gap i see here is that even if the media is adopting selective amnesia, does this result in a furthering of he animosity towards the muslims? if so, should it? the people who died in the riots were innocent, right? they had nothing to do with all these power games.
incidentally, i think you are quite forgiving of the modi government. gujarat was state sponsored. stopping the police from stepping in to quell the riots, delaying the army's deployment, not quickly acting against inflammatory local media...
i think they played a more active role than you give them credit for. incidentally, a friend who reported on the riots tells me that the 300 hindus dead number is way too high. that the state had recorded some muslims deaths as hindu deaths.
repeat any number frequently enough, and people will come to believe it. can someone point me towards more data on this 300 dead hindus number?
cheers, all.
- August 01, 2006 10:30 AM
> ow do I know about it? Dude, I read the newspapers
> everyday.
think you misunderstand. i meant, how do you know about the plight of the k'mir pundits? obviosly, by reading papers/internet/watching tv/whatever your source of news. by definition, it has been covered in press.
> Please point out to the last column in a
> mainstream publication which deals with
> their plight. Kindly do that. Or for that
> matter in a mainstream blog. I would be glad.
i said in earlier comment that the owner of this blog has himself written about pundit's condition many times. i located two of them. here is one on tehelka. and this is on india together.
please be glad. my compliments. i see no double standards.
rest later.
- August 01, 2006 10:39 AM
"message - dude, it gives me great pleasure to reiterate the same sentiment back to your family. :-)"
Ouch. Clever comeback. Hurts!
But neither I nor my family ended fun, dudoid. Since you brought family into picture: did D'Souza rope in his family also in this fun-ending endeavor!!? And are _you_ DSouza? (Didn't you say goodbye?) If not, why are you reiterating a "sentiment" targeted at DSouza back to me when D'Souza is presumably capable of doing it from wherever he currently is -- earth or hell or the company of 72 houris?
"the gap i see here is that even if the media is adopting selective amnesia, does this result in a furthering of he animosity towards the muslims?"
Let me see. Is it okay to spread hatred against Hindus and desire their death in larger numbers because Muslims died in greater numbers in Gujarat riots?
That's one question. Another is: why does media have 'selective amnesia'? Could it be because it's peopled with congie-commie-islamist-evangelical dirtbags for whom the riots are god-sent opportunity for furthering their -- and their masters' -- politics? So like, let us see .. another Mulsim is killed in another riot and these waiting dirtbags pounce on the opportunity, and try and make the most of it? Like, in fact, the NDTV clowns attempted to do recently in Vadodara by focusing only on the retaliatory killing of a Muslim man but conveniently ignoring the fact that it all started when a couple of Hindu passers by were murdered by Muslim rioters?
"if so, should it? the people who died in the riots were innocent, right? they had nothing to do with all these power games."
What do innocent Kashmiri Hindus rotting in refugee camps (an entire generation is growing up there) have to do with the power games of a media driven -- as you admitted -- by 'selective' amnesia? What do the Hindus killed Baroda have to do with it? What do the pilgrims bombed to death in varanasi have to do with it? What do train coomuters in Bombay have to do with it? What do the Hindus of J&K, pulled out of their homes in the dead of the night and shot mercilessly dead -- have to do with it? Is "selective amnesia" a good enough excuse to endorsing the deaths of Hindus and spreading hatred against Hindus, while at the same time manufacturing lies about the deaths of Muslims?
"a friend who reported on the riots tells me that the 300 hindus dead number is way too high. that the state had recorded some muslims deaths as hindu deaths."
A friend told me that the govt ordered police to kill Hindus ruthlessly but take a lenient view of Muslim rioters. Which is why a lot more Hindus were killed in police firing than Muslims. Why isn't there a investigation into why so many people -- and especially Hindus -- were killed in police firing? In all of 1984 riots, not a single rioter was killed by police. How come so many Hindus were killed in Gujarat? Why is there no investigation into this police brutality?
"repeat any number frequently enough, and people will come to believe it"
Precisely. Some Islamist outfit claims 5000 Muslims were killed in Guj. Arundhati Roy -- whose hubby is a land-grabber -- lied through her teeth about the rape and killing of Ehsan Jaffrey's daughters. And lies that 70000 Muslims were killed in kashmir by security forces. Damn liars.
- August 01, 2006 12:45 PM
Ok here's the plan...we're going to completely ignore the valid points raised by the guy above me and continue complaining about the "Godhra Genocide", because we have no answers.
- August 01, 2006 2:24 PM
> "valid points raised by the guy above me"
which would those be?
"are _you_ DSouza"? or "earth or hell or the company of 72 houris"? or "congie-commie-islamist-evangelical dirtbags"? or "good enough excuse to endorsing the deaths of Hindus and spreading hatred against Hindus"? or "Damn liars"?
(a sample).
which of thse are valid points that need answers? has this fellow answered one qustion directed at him? can one discus anything with someone who starts by questioning if anony1118 is dsouza, and writes like this?
now he will try same tactics with me. wont work. i think you have to work sligtly harder to make "valid points."
yet once more. annony1118, you have buckets of patience.
- August 01, 2006 3:59 PM
"are _you_ DSouza"?
Yes, are you? Very valid question to ask because you're bringing my family into picture to pay back a sentiment directed at D'Souza.
I bet your kind believes bringing families, wives, grandmothers and kids into discussions is a valid thing to do. Fellows can dish it out but can't take it eh?
"earth or hell or the company of 72 houris"
Let D'Souza take the bait, dearie. Why froth at the mouth at something not directed against you who is not D'Souza? ;-)
"congie-commie-islamist-evangelical dirtbag"
You mean to say they can't be dirtbags because they develop amnesia only about the killings of Hindus?
"good enough excuse to endorsing the deaths of Hindus and spreading hatred against Hindus"
That was in response to your allegations of spreading animosity against Muslims. No answer? Can't answer? Well, only dishing it out is your policy, it seems.
"Damn liars"
No, I did not accuse your friend who knew of Hindu deaths in Guj being inflated. Don't get defensive!
Now that I have exhausted your excuses, how about asnwering the valid points? Can't? Never mind. It's not like I really know who you are, so there's no loss of face for ya ..
- August 01, 2006 4:18 PM
While on the subject ..
"a friend who reported on the riots tells me that the 300 hindus dead number is way too high. that the state had recorded some muslims deaths as hindu deaths"
Why do you think more Hindus should have been killed in Guj? Do you think the cops killed a sufficient number of Hindus? How many Hindus should have been killed, in your view, to make sure not a single Muslim lost his life?
- August 01, 2006 4:21 PM
> you're bringing my family into picture
it wasn't me, but its ok. as i predicted, "he will try same tactics with me" i.e. he will say i am dsouza, i am anonny118 etc.
but anyway, this complaint is coming from same person who wrote in fourth comment near top of this page ---
> Daddy's spoiled little brat.
- August 01, 2006 4:55 PM
> best bakery and gulmarg (note the name)
> happened in the IMMEDIATE context of Godhra.
"gulmarg"? some odd joke? didn't get it. sorry.
it was gulberg. for example see this report.
and "immediate context"? a repulsive statement. was bomb blast of mumbai 1993 retaliatreoy in immediate context of earlier riots? people said that, it was as repulsive.
gulberg, best bakery, godhra train -- all completely innocnt people killed for no reason.
yet we all play our vulgar political games with them.
- August 01, 2006 5:25 PM
Hey DD, what's this about?! What's with your "Goodbye" and what's with this war that's broken out here!
For some guy way up there, it's Sudhakar. Not Sukumar.
- August 01, 2006 6:47 PM
""gulmarg"? some odd joke? didn't get it. sorry.
it was gulberg. for example see this report."
How about this report?
Should we attribute the error to the fact that The Hindu is a loonie leftwing rag that leftwing loonies write for?
"and "immediate context"? a repulsive statement. "
Never mind. We are even. Every statement of yours is repulsive to me, and I tend to think: how can a human being ever sink as low as this fellow? (Though, I admit, not as low as the slimeball who asked, in the context of massacre of school children at Beslan by Islamic terrorists: "what is the big deal about killing children"?)
"and "immediate context"? a repulsive statement. was bomb blast of mumbai 1993 retaliatreoy in immediate context of earlier riots?"
Ah, our Moraluddin who a shortwhile ago was terming others' statements as 'repulsive' is now repulsively claiming that 1993 blasts happened in the immediate context of riots. No, they did not, repulsive dude. The riots happened in December-Jan, starting with killings of Hindus by Muslims (eg: Radhabai Chawl). The blasts happened in March. Long way.
Godhra train happened on Feb 27. Gulmarg etc happened on Feb 28-March 1. Immediate context. Get the point?
- August 01, 2006 9:32 PM
" > you're bringing my family into picture
it wasn't me, but its ok. "
Is that so. Allright. So you were defending the fellow who brought my family into picture. Fat lot of difference.
- August 01, 2006 9:34 PM
Boohooo. Guess who comes crawling out of the woodwork?
- August 01, 2006 9:37 PM
> Guess who comes crawling out of the woodwork?
- August 01, 2006 10:52 PM
"> Guess who comes crawling out of the woodwork?
Good question. You show some talent and promise.
Are you Sudhakar Mukta Khanna Nikhil Vengsarakar by any chance? Or his brother? Or uncle?
- August 01, 2006 11:13 PM
Anony 1118,
First, I am glad we agree that the word genocide is wrongly applied.
Second, No. I am not forgiving of the Modi government. In my book Modi is guilty of crimes of commision and omission and should be behind bars. Period. However, that does not mean that I buy this idea of state sponsered genocide, my tipping point is much lower.
Third, you ask me about bias and it is a question which I would like to answer.
First, I object to your classification as a pro-muslim bias. It is a pro fundamentalist Muslim bias. This classification is important because the likes of Bidwai are unconcerned about what happens to common Muslims, for example, wont they have demanded a Uniform Civil code because the present laws are so discriminatory to Muslim woman?
Now, suppose I am Kashmiri Hindu. What message I get? That since I am not choosing the path of violence, my problems would be ignored, why? Or suppose I am one of those victims of the Godhara carnage? Laloo Yadav appoints a commision which reduces it to an accident! So, I see the world wide concern about Muslims who have been killed, how the MSM is using words like genocide but when it comes to Godhara carnage, the secularists dismiss it as an accident. I would further examine why is that the case? My conclusion would be: Because Muslims vote as a single block of voters, and hence are courted. So what should I do? Vote as part of the Hindu vote bank.
Is that the message we want to convey? The rise of Hindu right in this country can be directly linked to the shameless pandering of the Muslim right, starting from the Shahbano case. Fundamentalism is dangerous for this country and this kind of selective secularism provides fodder for the same.
- August 02, 2006 8:05 AM
Joshua Project rules forbid blogging.
- August 02, 2006 10:53 AM
Is that so?
I was wondering why absolutelyanonymous.blotspot.com disappeared too!
- August 02, 2006 1:18 PM
Ahhhh! I shoulda known! The old familiar combination of abuse, extreme slipperiness and tired sarcasm! Means it has got to be everyone's ghOstly friend Raghu Reddy, also known as RR, once of poodlesofindia.blogspot.com (why don't you update that empty-headed site, RR, after all you told us all to go visit), trolling around here.
Now incarnated as "san", "k", "gavaskar nair" and sundrey "anonymous"es, but not once as his own adored self, RR! Why, RR, afraid of yourself all of a sudden?
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. No more responses to this guy.
- August 02, 2006 1:36 PM
- anon1118 said...
dear confused.
you mean your tipping point is much higher?
anyway, i will be attending a workshop on friday about a new bill being mooted by the govt to tackle communal riots. it seems to be tending towards more power to the centre than the state at such times. i thought i should. need to clarify my thinking on these issues.
and now, i think i will take this discussion offline and mail you directly (i have your email).
all of you, take care.
a special word for san: dude. it amuses me that for all the fiery bombast, you did not come back with a single fact to support your claim that gujarat wasn't premeditated. tsk tsk.
- August 02, 2006 2:41 PM
"Now incarnated as "san", "k", "gavaskar nair" and sundrey "anonymous"es, but not once as his own adored self, RR!"
You are imagining conspiracies, kiddo. Doesn't do good to your constitution, and causes constipation. Take care!
- August 02, 2006 2:59 PM
> you did not come back with a single fact
> to support your claim that gujarat wasn't
> premeditated.
annony1118, don't tell me you expectd san to come back? he cant.
confused, no reaction to pointers you asked for? to stories re: k'mir pundits? gave you two.
- August 02, 2006 3:16 PM
Anony 1118,
Ooops. Sorry! Thats what I meant. Higher. my bad.
Dude. My point was not that the plight of Kashmiri Hindus has NEVER been covered. My point is compare that with coverage for Gujarat riots and tell me which hogs more space?
The point is that we are ready to talk to Pakistan, which has actively taken part in ethnic cleansing in Kashmir, shows how much we care. No?
- August 02, 2006 5:27 PM
whats going on here?
- August 02, 2006 6:00 PM
> My point was not that the plight of
> Kashmiri Hindus has NEVER been covered.
didnt seem that way. when you first brought this up, said:--
> "no one ever worried about the ethnic
> cleansing of Hindus from Kashmir.
> how many people will write about it?"
then you said:--
> Please point out to the last column in a
> mainstream publication which deals with
> their plight. Kindly do that. Or for that
> matter in a mainstream blog. I would be glad.
so i pointd out as you asked. now that is not enough. your latest is you did not mean "never". (even though you said "no one ever" (example). now you say is in comparison to gujrat coverage. you did not say that before.
goes to prove that when we want to belive something, we do it irregardless of evidence.
why so hard to say "oh, i didnt know that? maybe i can rethink this?"
does not invaliddate your argument.
- August 02, 2006 6:10 PM
"goes to prove that when we want to belive something, we do it irregardless of evidence."
Actually, goes to prove that we'll clutch at any feeble straw that comes our way when we want to deny the obvious.
- August 02, 2006 6:22 PM
- anon1118 said...
no problem. the meaning was clear enough. :-)
- August 02, 2006 8:40 PM
You are wrong Dilip D'Souza. 'Confused' made good points. Please don't justify the killings of Hindus.
- August 02, 2006 9:02 PM
This is just one hlel of an amusing page! Everyone here is accusing everyone here of being someone else! But nobody uses his REAL name!!!!
D-Cubed, you should be proud of what you got going. Somebody needs to make a song out of this!!
- August 02, 2006 10:38 PM
'Frisco, what do you mean. Nikhil and anon1118 are using their real names.
- August 02, 2006 10:46 PM
> Muslims vote as a single block of voters
forgotten about this. sorry.
does anyone has evidence to support this? this is very serious question. please.
- August 02, 2006 10:58 PM
see, nikhil just proved that he is using the real name! (which is anon1118)
- August 02, 2006 11:07 PM
Came back here only to register my thanks - Thank you for the pointer to visit PoodlesOfIndia. Such paranoia, almost hilraious! RR is the Best.
- August 03, 2006 12:21 PM
I disagree with ya, kiddo. poodlesofindia.blogspot.com isn't bad. (And thanks for giving it publicity by the way. Otherwise I'd never have known about it.) The only problem, it seems to me, is that that chap musta been under some kinda pressure to rival this "death ends crap" blog. Look what happened in the end? This blog's owner committed suicide by hanging himself from a ceiling fan. Death ended the crap, indeed, and comprehensively too. Moral of the story: compete with the good, not the ugly.
- August 03, 2006 1:12 PM
Quotable quote, Release 2.0: "Compete with the good, not the crappy!"
- August 03, 2006 1:18 PM
Look at this.
- August 04, 2006 9:41 AM
Why do you want us to look at lunacy, d-clobbered?
- August 04, 2006 12:26 PM
Hi all,
Best & Worst of DDS
A while ago I posted here about trying to find an article by DDS from lonng ago where he genuinely tried to tread the middle path- on the left-right divide on religion/ secularism.
I couldnt find it but did find a few that sadly I would rate among the worst. Here they are in ascending order:
1. SIMI-larly lets ban partiality http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/oct/13dilip.htm
OK hindsight is 18/20, the article is not so bad, well reasoned but wish he had avoided the god-like certitude of:
"this ban on SIMI had nothing to do with SIMI's criminal activities. It had everything to do with simple political expediency."
2. Man from myth: Che
Early Dilip. My fave. non-leftist writes with surprising cold objectivity of revolts and "liberating" bloodshed. Except for one place where Che "unforgivably supervises an execution", no sense of the usual DDS: futility of violence, I_dont_see_the_dignity etc
3. I'm Venal, youre Scum
Starting from a shocking incident of Pakistan torturing to death 6 Indian soldiers, DDS traverses a wierd circuitous loop thru notified tribes (desingated criminal) and Bhagalpur blindings to prove that we Indians are so very equally into casual torture and killing.
Absolutely no link otherwise, I wonder he could have included elimination of stray dogs from his locality too.
- August 04, 2006 2:41 PM
Nice try, d-clobbered.
- August 04, 2006 3:41 PM
Hi nikhil,
> Muslims vote as a single block of voters.
I think it is more correctly put as "Muslims vote strategically to defeat the BJP". I for one dont blame them for that and dont understand the need to contest this.
You may not get hard evidence but just googling "Muslim voting trends" returns several hits- articles by Asghar Ali Engineer, KK Katyal etc. where this is openly discussed /accepted.
The worries of the Muslim leaders over the secular vote getting split (resulting in a possible victory to the BJP) are also transparent.
- August 04, 2006 8:20 PM
I agree with you Jai. Well said. Hats off to you. Brilliant.
- August 04, 2006 9:29 PM
- san said...
sudhakar, you accused me of being someone else posting under a fake name. No, I'm not someone else, and if you look at my other posts across blogspot -- and there are plenty -- you'll see that I post under this unique name.
Dilip "Mel Gibson" DSouza is the one with the Jekyll-Hyde alter-ego syndrome. I think he's the one lacking credibility.
- August 05, 2006 3:13 AM
- Vidya said...
...and good luck.
- August 05, 2006 8:02 AM
- anon1118 said...
i think people who are incapable of buttressing their comments with even an iota of proof are the ones running low on credibility.
isliye, bombast thoda kam kar. it was entertaining to begin with. but it has just become so bally boring and tedious and predictable now. yawn! at the very least, try a new rhetorical device.
- August 05, 2006 8:18 AM
Hello. Glad to see that the blog has a life of its own. As you can tell from my name, I am now taking over this b-log/comments. Please change the subject immediately. Shall we talk about the middle east now? Living proof of Death Begins Fun. Check with the Hezbollah.
- August 05, 2006 10:13 AM
" On July 31, 2006 1:29 PM, Anonymous wrote:
He ended the fun. Did he die?"
No. He is alive and kicking. He is about to launch a brand new blog:
- August 05, 2006 11:14 AM
I'm thinking all this glee at Mr.DDS's departure is misplaced, he's merely off on one of his jaunts where he sees nothing but povery and suffering.
He'll be back in a few days with an article that possibly includes a veiled attack on "reform" or "the communal forces".
- August 05, 2006 12:50 PM
- san said...
I think he's gone to renew his lithium prescription.
- August 06, 2006 1:38 PM
- anon1118 said...
and san has clearly decided to ignore me. in case you are wondering why, read the rest of this message thread. it is all rather amusing.
- August 06, 2006 9:20 PM
- Sunil Shibad said...
Latest reports indicate Dilip is in POK interviweing LeT terrorists and will write a colmun on how they are "misunderstood".
From there rumor has it that he will go to Lebanon to interview the Hezbollah terrorists for their views on Israel and "how the Sena, BJP and RSS were secretly behind the Qana bombings" ( his next rant against Hindus).
We await your "highly unbiased columns" with bated breath, Dilip.
- August 08, 2006 3:21 AM
Not that I think this is going to matter, but let me add myself to the crowd of people who want you back. I've really enjoyed your writing and I agree completely with your thoughts on a particularly contentious recent subject. I admire and respect your honesty and the ability to put these uncomfortable truths out there. And, I also know that no matter how coherent or compelling the argument you put forward, there are loads (rather most?) of people who would never accept it. However, there are only few amongst us who can stand up for their principles and even fewer who can put them eloquently into words; and you were one of them. I feel sad that we're losing your voice. I'm sure there a dozens of people who would agree with me and would really really love it if you came back. Pretty please?
And if you decide not to, (despite all my grovelling :) ), then just keep in mind that your writing gave several hours of pleasure and provoked quite a few introspection sessions for a lot of us. Thanks!!
- August 08, 2006 5:26 AM
I have reason to believe that this is only a temporary break.
> I agree completely with your thoughts...
I respect your right to do so but I am unsure that we can agree absolutely completely with anyones thoughts on any subject. There are always some shades of difference?
I do like DDS's humanist, inclusive approach; but I have noted some gaps - sensitivities more tuned to some triggers than to others- over the past several years. I dont actually deny him the right to be biased; most all of us are in some way or the other.
I do wish he worked on it though. I have noted with examples before (August 04, 2006 2:41 PM) :
1. Passion over objectivity: Occasionally seems to cloud his reasoning like his protest at the ban on SIMI. He seems here to be guided by other previous events and justifiable anger against them shadows his thinking here.
2. Non-leftism:
This is OK, we should indulge his sincere belief that he is a non-leftist :-) just proves he is human.
3. "Tangentialism":
He sometimes takes off at a tangent and then does barrel rolls. I pointed out one egregious example in "I'm Venal, youre Scum".
Usually his loops close with some valid points eg: Mumbai 7/11 to Guj riots, and then on to the inclusive campaign for justice for all. This one didnt- preventing or punishing the Bhagalpur "blinders" would have cut no ice with the Pak torture team that killed our soldiers.
Even without any improvements on these, I still like his writing for the introspection it has triggered. It would be really great if he addressed some of these concerns though....
- August 08, 2006 10:24 AM
- Bombay Addict said...
Sarah - thank you. I agree and I also join you in your appeal.
- August 09, 2006 11:43 AM
- In The Shadows said...
Wow.. great. Good riddance.
Maybe he isnt getting enough of good quality scotch to keep him going.
Lets donate generously for dilips cause.. 2 paisa each (maybe for this blogs requim). The amount will be deducted from your income as Triple-Dumb tax.
- August 09, 2006 1:10 PM
- In The Shadows said...
You say you are a journo.. and using such filthy language. Awww.. no wonder the quality of news, content and presentation, has worsened ten times in last few years. Nonsensical kids out of college, incapable of even speaking a sentence correctly, are calling themselves journalists.
I just recalled Barkkha dutt the other day on ndtv on cola controversy, while channel surfing. What a useless and illmannered person.
A lady senior doctor in the audience said - "my home is cola free" . barkha laughs and says (jokingly) - "what else is it free of" . doctor smiles, does not reply and continues. barkha - "What else is it free of" and laughs. The doctor says something and continues. After a few seconds, barkha - "mam, your time is up".
Sigghhss.. arre ladki, bolne to do bichare doctor ko, nahi samaj aata to chup karke baitho.
- August 09, 2006 1:23 PM
I had read the articles linked by Nikhil (DDS on Kashmir Pandits) some time ago- nice touching pieces,I felt.
But I re-read them in the context of his debate with Confused on Kashmir coverage and came up with the following thoughts:
Lalit Koul covers this more frequently on rediff and perhaps emphasises some different aspects of their suffering than DDS.
In the backdrop of the DDS articles, I imagined 2 groups A & B both oppressing a group C. Imagine you belong to group C.
A (now): lips curl in distaste at you.
B (then): hands hurled in grenades at you.
A (now): music bands play tunes around your place- extra loud, extra late.
B (then): armed bands played AK47s around your place- extra loud, extra late.
I write on your plight.
I put in almost at 2:1 words on group A activity: group B activity.
Even if went 1:1, you may not be impressed by my objectivity and balance in comparing the 2 groups?
I am reputed by friend and foe alike for placing current conflicts in past contexts, usually dwelling on the past contexts.
Yet I go about 2:1 on your present: your past. I am curiously incurious abt your past.
I of all people, wonder why you dont seem to notice the curled lips & the music.
But then you may not find much wrong with the commentary.
You may think I have done OK.
You are not C.
- August 09, 2006 2:58 PM
wow you sure got a lot of attention just cos you posted GOODBYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
- August 09, 2006 4:09 PM
- anon1118 said...
in the shadows?
filthy language? me? really? would you say it is as filthy as what san has been uttering?
- August 09, 2006 7:37 PM
I think the joker started a new blog. The Goodbye blog.
- August 09, 2006 9:14 PM
> filthy language
I think shadows means as filthy as Barkha Dutt is "useless and ill-mannered"
I would almost take that as a compliment :-)
- August 10, 2006 9:36 AM
In the Shadows says anon1118 uses "filthy" language". I re-read all the comments on this page for understanding this.
In that context, I found anon1118 saying "where the sandas" and "fiery bombast".
San saying "spoiled little brat", "usual blather", "flighty", "juvenile delinquents", "stupidly hope", "little kiddies", "schizo", "wackjob", "punk", "tripe" and "pseudo knockoff".
In the Shadows in his two comments saying "nonsensical kids", "useless and illmannered", "triple-dumb".
Soniah! (same as dalmiah! I think) saying "use your tongue. lick-o'-lick".
One anonomous (same as RR or san or dalmiah! I think, plus San Francisco and others) saying "dirtbags" and "damn liars".
vamanan saying "worships rajeev srinivasan's phallus".
What else?
But after all this, In the Shadows says only anon1118 uses "filthy" languge.
- August 10, 2006 10:54 AM
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- August 10, 2006 12:59 PM
The litany of complaints made by d-clobbered with respect to "filthy" language are silly. They are not examples of "filthy" language at all. He is just whining, projecting himself as The Victim.
- August 10, 2006 3:16 PM
- In The Shadows said...
I think shadows means as filthy as Barkha Dutt is "useless and ill-mannered"
If you note, she is quite rude and illmannered with the guests on her talk shows.
Well, to tell you frankly, I once even heard her utter "bloody" in one of the shows. Heck, you are not supposed to say such words if you are to be taken seriously as a news channel. You may do so elsewhere. You are not enacting a play in a school drama competition.
Go and watch bbc or cnn, or the so called "dumbed-down" news channels of west. The guests may use such language, but never a news anchor on those channels will utter such words. Yep, they have more freedom to use such words, but they know where to use them, unlike our dumb aajtaks and ndtvs.
As for Dilip, good riddance actually. He goes all over the blogosphere and argues blindly without fact or reason. And he is so confused, he has contradicted himself so many times. If he were a regular blogger, nobody would have cared to read it. Its just because he writes for Himal (nepali maoist mag), outlook, rediff, etc that people do visit here.
- August 10, 2006 4:03 PM
- In The Shadows said...
But after all this, In the Shadows says only anon1118 uses "filthy" languge.
Ok jai, I had not read all the comments, now I did. All of those you mentioned use filty language. Khush ho gaye bhaiya... maza aya.. chalo ab taaliyan bajao...
I wonder whats so filthy about calling barkha illmannered. or calling someone nonsensical. Well, yippieeee.. I am abusive too now. :)
- August 10, 2006 4:06 PM
on this page alone, d-cubed is been accused of being anony118, myself (nikhil), confused, firsco, anonymous, jai.
by same man who uses san, RR ("72 houris", nice touch), gavaskar, tulip, soniah!, in the shadows ...
- August 10, 2006 4:28 PM
In the midst of all this, does anyone know where DDS really is?
- August 10, 2006 5:07 PM
Reed Watch -- does anyone know where DDS really is?
Heh! Earlier the great man "newinimproved" said he is in PoK on the way to Lebanon.
Have to take newnimproved seriously. He is the fellow who got into a BigFight with many bloggers, then phoned up one of them pretending - can't stop laffing at this - to be many different journalists! (From "Boston Chronicle", "Andheri times" ect. Very famous papers).
Details at his post here, but definately also read this one by blogger who was phoned up.
- August 10, 2006 7:31 PM
> wonder whats so filthy about calling barkha illmannered.
youre serious?
nevertheless, at least barka has guts to uses her real name. unlike those i am encountering here - san, anatonia, anon1118, red watch, gavaskar, tulip, oppse the, log_d, jagmohan, in the shadows, confused.
many others.
each one saying others is faking!
what a collection of cowards. (co-co).
- August 10, 2006 10:30 PM
I'm using my own name. Nikhil is a coward pretending to be d-clobbered, when he is only Nikhil which is when he is not binaryannoy1118 which is when he is Jai DDosa which is when ...
What a coward! (whaco)
- August 11, 2006 12:26 AM
> on this page alone, d-cubed is been accused of being anony118, myself (nikhil), confused, firsco, anonymous, jai.
And even a casual read will reveal fair-to-significant divergence of opinion between these comments.
for eg. my post on your post abt DDS articles on Kashmir Pandits.
If we were both the same person, we're talking some serious schizophrenia here :-)
I'd say, dont get into the name game
BTW somebody else is posting here now with regards,Jai etc. (August 10, 2006 10:54 AM). Mine is an anonymous ID, but I request this person to create his/her own style to avoid confusion.
- August 11, 2006 11:16 AM
> filthy language
Forgot to add this. I just read the other Jai's (10:54) list and agree with somebody else's criticism that they are not examples of filthy language (well maybe vamanan could have reconsidered his choice of words...)
I would like to thank pretty much ALL posters here, including those who think I am DDS/ nikhil etc. for keeping this generally clean.
Thanks & regards,
- August 11, 2006 11:28 AM
Came here from bytheganges.blogspot (On the Ganga Mail) ... I'm not disappointed! To top it all, now there's Jai saying he's not Jai!
Keep it up, you fellows! What will you come up with next?? What a hoot.
- August 11, 2006 12:18 PM
I never said that I am not Jai. My point is: if Indian authorities had uncovered an Islamist terrorist plot like the one foiled in Britain, guess what would be the reaction of the usual suspects? You only need look at the foiled attack on RSS HQ in Nagpur: a bunch of lunatic left-wingers are claiming that the government (right, the Congress government) staged it to make Muslims look bad.
That's the point.
- August 11, 2006 12:50 PM
Jai, good point. There is another point. The media is highlighting the terror plot in UK, but deliberately suppressing the following. Why? Are Hindu women and children not human beings?
Friday, August 11, 2006 (Jammu):
Three members of a Hindu family, including two children, were shot dead by militants in Udhampur district on Friday.
A group of suspected LeT militants entered into the house of one Ram Singh in Ara village of Gool tehsil and enquired about him.
Singh, who had been receiving threats from militants, had taken shelter for the night in a nearby Special Task Force camp of J & K Police and only his wife and two children were present in the isolated house, on the outskirts of the village and surrounded by hillocks.
The militants severely beat up Singh's wife and their two children before shooting them dead. All the three died on the spot. The ultras later escaped.
After hearing gun shots, jawans from the STF camp rushed to the spot and recovered the bodies.
The deceased were Singh's 35-year-old wife Chitra Devi, son Neelam and daughter Meena.
A massive search operation has been launched to track down the militants responsible for the heinous killing. (PTI)
- August 11, 2006 2:01 PM
Off-topic: NYTIMES BIAS:
Militant vs terrorist, in the same news story!
foreign MILITANTS, possibly al-Qaida members, may be planning to carry out bombings in two major Indian cities…
British police said they had thwarted another TERRORIST plot, possibly just days away, to blow up U.S.-bound jetliners….
Independence Day celebrations, a time of year when MILITANTS from the country's myriad regional separatist movements often launch attacks….
Militants when attacks planned in India, terrorists when attacks planned in London :-(
- August 11, 2006 7:40 PM
I see there's one more Jai now (August 11, 2006 12:50 PM and 7:40 PM).
Once again, I request this person(s) to use his/her own style, otherwise there is confusion.
- August 11, 2006 7:50 PM
Yeah, Dot, why don't you get a job?
- August 12, 2006 2:31 AM
I'm waiting for you to get one, Red Watch. I'm already with the CPI Maoist
- August 12, 2006 3:34 PM
When the wife gets tough, the husband stops blogging?
- August 13, 2006 2:09 AM
What gives?! A whole day passes without Jai saying he's not Jai? What about that other set (or is it just one?) who says everyone is dcubed? (And so which one of the Jai's is dcubed, or is it dclobberred?) Who is he?? That Confused fellow, evades questions?
Come on!! Don't get lazy, people, there's loads of us waiting for entertainment!
- August 13, 2006 12:26 PM
Dilip D'Souza is the ultimate parasitical filth of human society.
- August 13, 2006 3:56 PM
theotherdilip is taking a nap.
- August 13, 2006 3:59 PM
> ultimate parasitical filth
therefore even ultimate parasitcal filth has guts that you does not have -- guts to use own name in the discussion and while giving criticizm.
what comes below ultimate parasitical filth then?
- August 14, 2006 9:52 AM
You answered it yourself, chappie. Look below.
Lalita Kohli
what comes below ultimate parasitical filth then?
- August 14, 2006 11:13 AM
I cant believe folks are still at it. :)
Anyway, which question I have evaded?
I made my point and moved on, I cant keep repeating myself till the cows home or whatever.
- August 15, 2006 8:13 AM
> which question I have evaded?
i dont know what lalitha meant, but you didnt reply to this my last coment to you.
> My point was not that the plight of
> Kashmiri Hindus has NEVER been covered.
didnt seem that way. when you first brought this up, said:--
> "no one ever worried about the ethnic
> cleansing of Hindus from Kashmir.
> how many people will write about it?"
then you said:--
> Please point out to the last column in a
> mainstream publication which deals with
> their plight. Kindly do that. Or for that
> matter in a mainstream blog. I would be glad.
so i pointd out as you asked. now that is not enough. your latest is you did not mean "never". (even though you said "no one ever" (example). now you say is in comparison to gujrat coverage. you did not say that before.
goes to prove that when we want to belive something, we do it irregardless of evidence.
why so hard to say "oh, i didnt know that? maybe i can rethink this?"
does not invaliddate your argument.
- August 15, 2006 2:21 PM
@ confused & nikhil,
confused: good to see you back. you evaded the question:
..when we want to belive something, we do it irregardless of evidence.
why so hard to say "oh, i didnt know that? maybe i can rethink this?"
Other than nikhil's posted articles on KPs by DDS, I have pointed that Lalit Koul covers this often on rediff.
nikhil: you evaded the larger point
confused was trying to make.
Is the message to KPs to suggest that they (or somebody on their behalf) indulge in violence and then get circular justification/ media
attention etc.?
Imagine after a couple of such blasts,
Outlook: publishes a series on how K.Ps are just like us.
India Today: does a series on how the KPs are economically and educationally backward, are getting ghettoised and so on...
Surely, peaceful non-violent demo & protest should be getting them this kind of attention already?
- August 16, 2006 9:59 AM
confused made comment, "no one ever worried about the ethnic cleansing of Hindus from Kashmir."
i replied this comment saying that, "this commenter does not like the leftist (economics-wise) politics of the owner of this blog. but he has himself visited kashmir pundit camps and written about their condition sevral times."
then confused replies, "My point was not that the plight of Kashmiri Hindus has NEVER been covered."
from "no one ever" to this, by "confused".
you are not liking coverage of K'mir pundit's issue by dsoza, fine. you prefer lalit koul's coverage, fine. but he (dsouza) went to pundit camps and wrote about their sitution, no? how many other journalist did that?
- August 16, 2006 11:51 AM
God! Talk about vultures feeding on carcass!!!
Goodbye from me too... fun ends?
- August 17, 2006 1:04 AM
Thanks for the response. I think DDS is a sensitive soul who cares for KPs... who in his zeal to push the point that KPs are being ignored by their hosts and the ones who loudly claim to be on their side,slightly stretched their current situation over their past tribulations.
I found this surprising coming from DDS, a master analyst of things past. It is possible that LK may be overdoing the past... lets just be aware that they are putting forth various viewpoints and its up to us to correlate and cross-relate them into an overall picture?
Lets wait for confused's take on this.IMO you made a pretty good case that he appeared to be "shifting the goalposts".
But IMHO the validity of the point he was trying to make should not be obscured by the absolutism he seemed to indulge in, and that you called him on.
By the way, as far as MSM coverage on KPs vs. Guj riots/ blasts is concerned, I am of the opinion that there is no significant bias- its the nature of the media beast to cover the sensational stuff and ignore the quiet (even simmering) stuff.
- August 17, 2006 10:14 AM
- In The Shadows said...
oye nikhil,, stop this crap of yours.. use your real name etc etc..
who knows whether you are using your real name or not.
Atleast I am signing in to post comments, and any comments by me will carry my id and a link. you are not even a registered user.
Anyway, i just came back to see if dilip has returned, has the fun started? But no, comrade dilip will not let us have fun.
Hey dilip, come on post now. We are bored. Havent had a good laugh since last few days.
- August 17, 2006 1:37 PM
How funny that a guy who calls himself "In The Shadows" asks others to use their real name! We may not know whether or not "nikhil" is his real name, but we know for sure that you are not using your real name!!
The funniest fellows on this page are the ones who use these blogger ids like "Dot", "Confused" and "San" and "In the Shadows", and think they are more legit than everyone else. What a joke!
Also, the same guy says on this page about d-cubed's goodbye, "great" and "good riddance". Now, he's missing d-cubed enough to say "come on post now"!!
Keep it up, boys! I got a week of entertainment here so far!! I must not forget to thank bytheganges.blogspot once again!
- August 17, 2006 6:09 PM
> the validity of the point he was trying to make
but what point was "confused" trying to make? first of all, point that nobody is writing about k'mir pundit issue. that is clearly wrong. then, point that what he meant was that there is less writing about pundits than about gujrat. but why to meassure the seriousness of some problem by amount of coverage? as you say, this is not an indication of any "significnt bias".
then the real point is that there is great injustice with k'mir pundits, and also with gujarat. that is the problem for us. for people who try to say one is "worse" than other, i am tired of that.
- August 18, 2006 11:34 AM
For all who have been missing DDS:
He's blogging again, this is from the Other India site, as recent as Aug11th
- August 21, 2006 8:42 PM
Come back Dilip - I enjoy reading your blog.
- August 21, 2006 8:59 PM
> What a jerk.
> nikhil
must be for the first time that i am calling myself a jerk.
regarding gujrat and k'mir pundits, i will only repeat from my last coment. i.e.:
for people who try to say one is "worse" than other, i am tired of that.
- August 22, 2006 12:14 AM
oh, forgot.
i must tell you that i am also tired of logic, reason and rationality.
the other day some fellow was contesting the well-known fact that islamic terrorists are freedom-fighters. i was tired of that.
- August 22, 2006 9:24 PM
- In The Shadows said...
Lalita Kohli wrote: How funny that a guy who calls himself "In The Shadows" asks others to use their real name! We may not know whether or not "nikhil" is his real name, but we know for sure that you are not using your real name!!
Stupid Lalita Kohli,,, i was responding to nikhil. And nobody else can use my id, whatever it is. if you had a little idea about technology, in fact not tech at all, just a little common sense, you would notice that nikhil is posting with just a name, while I am logging in with my id, with a link to my profile. It was nikhils idea to abuse everyone who isnt using his/her real identity, which does not add anything to the discussion (or whatever is left of it).
Sadly enough, dilip still hasnt returned.. hey come back triple dumb, we all are bored here. What will happen to those poor secular muslims, who are terrorised by those filthy idolworshipping Hindus.
- August 22, 2006 9:25 PM
- In The Shadows said...
nikhil said: - i must tell you that i am also tired of logic, reason and rationality.
Yep, thats pretty evident from your stupid posts.
- August 22, 2006 9:27 PM
For anybody that's interested in what is left of this discussion:
Media and Kashmir Pundits
I feel overblown MSM coverage of an issue is not necessarily a good thing. The quickie MSM covers / lead articles on the Indian M. community in the wake of Mumbai 7/11 actually had some detrimental effect, IMO.
They talked abt the econ. / educ. backwardness, ghettoisation etc along with the polarization /profiling aspect. A message like "Improve our lot... or ELSE!" was hard to miss.
This really nettled me for a while (and perhaps lots of others). And I am a secular H who believes these issues are quite genuine and need to be looked into- on their own merit, not under the threat of any extremist violence.
I know quite a few H. who believe that "the M.s are being appeased etc" Imagine the effect on them.
What the KPs need are committed ppl like Communalism Combat maybe? on their side. I am not aware of how active they are on this issue.
- August 23, 2006 5:10 PM
On second thoughts, I agree I have rather been phenomenally stupid when I said that: "What the KPs need are committed ppl like Communalism Combat maybe?"
I have come to know that these Communanlism dingbats need "donations" in Saudi currency before they take up the cause of anybody. Moreover, taking up the cause of the KPs angers the backers of the Communalism Dingbats, who are Saudi Wahabbis.
Sorry for making a stupid assertion.
- August 24, 2006 7:32 PM
Well Jai_the_other, Abdul,
From what I know of their activity, I do like Teesta Setalvad and co. and respect what they are doing for the Guj. riot victims.
I am not really aware of what else they are into, but comparisons to Taliban are surely unwarranted.
I didnt find a direct website but on sabrang.com I find quite a few denunciations of extremist M. positions and condemnations of Godhra/ attacks on Hindus etc.
Quite odd for a "Wahhabi-funded org" ..
- August 25, 2006 10:17 AM
Guys and Gals.
Frankly I cant for the life of me figure out who is who here, so who ever is still missing me, this goes for him/her.
First, I dont have the time to come here endlessly and keep making the same points. I write two blogs which I have been unable to update for sometime, so if I dont reply back, its not evasion, its simply a lack of time.
Second, someone called Lalita Kohli said that I have questioned anyone's identity. I have not done that. I have no interest in knowing which id folks adopt here.
So, what was my point? My whole point was that we do not give the same importance to plight of Kashmiri Pandits as we give to victims of Gujaraat riots. Is that too difficult to understand? Someone called Nikhil reduced my statement to matter of semantics, I am not shifting goalposts here. When I ask, when was the last time the plight of Kp's was covered in msm, what I mean is (and I think it is pretty obvious meaning) that compare it to Gujaraat riots, it gets much less coverage. As simple as that. And yes, of course it shows that we simple do not care. IMO, plight of a minority which has been forced out of their homes by the number of 300,000 deserves a much greater coverage and importance. Of course, this is not restricted to media, when was the last time someone from our government raised this issues in the U.N. Infact, we actually seem to think that we can actually negotiate which such Jehadi elements and bring peace to Kashmir. The nature of Kashmiri terrorism has always been Islamic, please remember the KP's were forced out in the earlier phase of terrorism, right in 1989. So many of our leaders who are lablled secular understand this? Today itself, Mulayam Singh claimed that all terrorism in India is due to Babri Masjid demolition!
Does that mean we should not punish those who are responsible for Gujaraat riots? Hell no, by all means they should be punished and I am glad the SC is taking an active interest in this.
But unless we understand the true nature of Kashmiri terrorism, and truly adopt a zero tolerance policy towards terror, nothing will change.
I hope I am clear now.
- August 25, 2006 1:11 PM
Guys and Gals.
Frankly I cant for the life of me figure out who is who here, so who ever is still missing me, this goes for him/her.
First, I dont have the time to come here endlessly and keep making the same points. I write two blogs which I have been unable to update for sometime, so if I dont reply back, its not evasion, its simply a lack of time.
Second, someone called Lalita Kohli said that I have questioned anyone's identity. I have not done that. I have no interest in knowing which id folks adopt here.
So, what was my point? My whole point was that we do not give the same importance to plight of Kashmiri Pandits as we give to victims of Gujaraat riots. Is that too difficult to understand? Someone called Nikhil reduced my statement to matter of semantics, I am not shifting goalposts here. When I ask, when was the last time the plight of Kp's was covered in msm, what I mean is (and I think it is pretty obvious meaning) that compare it to Gujaraat riots, it gets much less coverage. As simple as that. And yes, of course it shows that we simple do not care. IMO, plight of a minority which has been forced out of their homes by the number of 300,000 deserves a much greater coverage and importance. Of course, this is not restricted to media, when was the last time someone from our government raised this issues in the U.N. Infact, we actually seem to think that we can actually negotiate which such Jehadi elements and bring peace to Kashmir. The nature of Kashmiri terrorism has always been Islamic, please remember the KP's were forced out in the earlier phase of terrorism, right in 1989. So many of our leaders who are lablled secular understand this? Today itself, Mulayam Singh claimed that all terrorism in India is due to Babri Masjid demolition!
Does that mean we should not punish those who are responsible for Gujaraat riots? Hell no, by all means they should be punished and I am glad the SC is taking an active interest in this.
But unless we understand the true nature of Kashmiri terrorism, and truly adopt a zero tolerance policy towards terror, nothing will change.
I hope I am clear now.
- August 25, 2006 1:11 PM
- rama said...
Hullo Dilip. Glad to have discovered your blog. Look forward to reading through the archives. I'd like to invite you to visit my blog too, at cuckooscall.blogspot.com Best, ramaswamy, Calcutta
- August 25, 2006 5:11 PM
Some clown is assuming my identity and making claims on my behalf.
No I don't respect Teesta Setalvad. She justified the roasting alive of 60 Hindus in Sabarmati Express on the grounds that those people did not go to Ayodhya for a peaceful assembly. Muslim extremists liek her are a serious threat not only to Hindus but to all peace-loving people.
Commualism Combat is not a non-profit. It is not an NGO. It is a money-making entity. Her outfit also refused to divulge its sources of income (suspected to be Arab).
- August 26, 2006 10:35 PM
As a secular Muslim, I really can't help laughing at the stupid secular H's who are only too eager to believe the con-artists who claim that Setalvad types are merely "working for riot victims" . In the wake of London airplane plot, it came to light that many terrorists were working for the relief of earthquake victims in Pakistan! They diverted earthquake relief funds (coming no doubt from stupid secular H's also) to terror activities in Britain.
I see a willing suspension of disbelief. Play ostritch and pretend that extrremist Muslims are actually secular and everything will be hunky-dory. There won't be any jihad and no killing of unbelievers.
Such stupidity.
It is because of stupid secular H's that secular M's like me feel unsafe. Secular H's, to save their own necks, are projecting the extremist M's as secular M's.
Of ocurse people like d-clobbered, who are not H's at all, find this situation most advantageous for their own con games.
When extremist M's attacked Indian parliament, d-clobbered wrote expressing disappointment that our politicians were not killed. As a secular M who is a proud Indian, I express disappointment that d-clobered was born at all. I ask my atrological H's what was the arrangement of stars like on that dark moment when he was conceived.
Abdul Khan
- August 26, 2006 10:47 PM
Well Jai_the_other, Abdul,
The 2 of you seem to operate in fine synchronization. Abdul, you posted last time as Abdul Khan and this time as anonymous. Do take care to maintain consistency :-)
You may have some valid points about Communalism Combat, to the extent that I found them to be considerably less active on the issue of KPs than on Guj riot victims.
Re. funding & other stuff, you seem to know the org almost like you belong to it, so I wont contest your assertions. You could have made your points in a more refined manner and that would have helped your credibility.
I was waiting for Confused's clarification. Now we have one that I can *nearly* agree with, and I am *almost* comfortable with Nikhil's final stance too.
So it's goodbye from me and I am leaving the field clear to you, Jai_the_sensible.
Jai (the clown)
- August 28, 2006 2:40 PM


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