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Thursday, January 14, 2010
Lowbie Tank Tales: Authority
I've ran Gnomeregan a fair bit, and now know the easiest way to get to the boss with a minimum of fuss.1 When I'm on my tank, the group falls in behind me and we move through the instance smoothly.
On the other hand, when I'm on my rogue, generally people don't know which way to go, and the group stops for discussion. I can tell them the way to go, but they never seem to listen to me. Half the time we go in a crazy direction, and the group never makes it to the end boss. This happens even I am the nominal Party Leader.
Generally, my tank is perceived to have much more authority than my rogue, even though there's not a lot of difference between the two characters. It's like WoW players are trained to defer to the tanks.
Maybe it's just that the tank goes in first. Maybe being the first person in the battle confers an aura of leadership, in the style of ancient generals and kings.
I find the automatic mantle of authority to be a very interesting part of tanking, even if I'm not completely sure why the tank is assumed to be in charge.
1. Generally, always go left, and don't jump down. Jumping down with an inexperienced group inevitably causes more problems than it's worth.
30 comments:
Alts of tanks should have no cooldown on tricks of the trade and misdirect so they can still lead the instance.ReplyDelete
I will say, I noticed back in BC that my rogue was treated differently than my other toons... I'd get /spit on while doing my dailies and I'd constantly have people trying to steal mobs I was obviously heading toward, where I'd bring a different alt over to the Isle of QD and get the SAME people giving me a hand and asking to group with me.ReplyDelete
No idea if it's the same way now as my rogue sits in IF unplayed but most people assumed I was going to suck. And with respect to the good rogues out there [I know a few], it SEEMS like a large number of rogues make themselves problems in instances.
I suspect DKs have a lot of that bias now. I still have healers quit group on my DK tank when they see my class "ugh dk tanks suck" /leave group.
Anywho, random observation I know :D
I've noticed the same. My bear is inching closer to 50k hp and I never get any grief at all when I do my random HC to get my frosts, people keep their head down and listen to my suggestions. However - when I started tanking i had around 35k hp and it was a major pain, people would call me failtank before we even started pulling and generally just not give a toss about what I had to say. People listen to the tank, but only if the tank is in top notch gear (at 80).ReplyDelete
Lower level tanking usually works out well, ocassionally you get one of those asshats that have 3 lvl80 tanks and you're a fail, but a quick whisper to the healer to let the person die and then they fall in line :)
Playing on my baby rogue however is a major pain. Just like you outlined in your post, and the experience of previous commenters, people will compltely ignore you. Even healers sometimes gives me snarky comments about "why do YOU care about letting tank establish aggro, you're just a fkn rogue"
It's not just WoW that has this, it's all MMORPGs and it stems from the responsibility of each party member.ReplyDelete
Good tanks are taught to pull the mobs and set the pace of the group; good DPS are taught to wait until the tank pulls and then engage without getting aggro.
It all adds up to the fact that party members expect the tank to lead them through a dungeon. Regardless of nominal notations, the tank will always be the leader of the group.
- Anonymous6:33 AM, January 15, 2010
On DK tanks: My random daily yesterday sent me into DTK. The DK tank popped in with 29K HP (that included my BoK) and you know what? It was one of the smoothest run I have had in a long time. I did more DPS than healing. We did not stop moving once, the DPS new to not pull agro (or the DK was that good at keeping it) and we were done in just under 20 min.
Contrast that with the just shy of 47K HP Bear tank that I had to heal nonstop (even out of combat he was managing to take damage) thru UK.
The tank that has knowledge of their class will always trump the tank that facerolled to gear.
I've found a subtle way to do this when people 'refuse to believe a dps knows what to do' is to simply start marking things up and heading off in one direction - much as I hate to move ahead of a tank ever ><;ReplyDelete
Anyone who's 'not sure' generally follows you and the tank can learn on-the-fly what the pulls are for next time. This has worked pretty well for me the last few times I've been to ST >_>
As to the DK bias... I'd never leave a group because a DK was tanking, but both druid and DK tanks seem, to me, to be far harder to heal in 5-mans. This can be a welcome change when you've been healing a *yawn* 43k hp paladin with block out the wazoo, though. Same for undergeared tanks, too!
I know I have seen bored healers in the past. through one DK run (instance not class) I had a tree hot me up pre pull and then hurricane through the entire pull on one of the larger pulls (ok, I pulled three packs at once, paladins need their rage bar filled too) he dropped into tree maybe twice to re-hot. And they the comments above are accurate, tanks, the ones who aren't failtank (which has little, though still some relation to gear) have been taught to pull and establish aggro first. because of that they set the pace, and tend to lead, if only by virtue that the priest running infront of the tank towards the mob tends to be a dead priest.ReplyDelete
I think it's an interesting thought that we have some sort of social disposition to follow the shiny one in armor waving the 'I'm Going First' flag.ReplyDelete
What happened to 'letting the hunters pull' ? I remember that was a huge issue in vanilla. If you were a hunter, you were expected to lead. Maybe all the failHunters trained us away from that?
I ran an H POS the other day with this shammy (no names). As soon as the group zoned in he mounted up, and started heading away from the group (skipping trash I suppose).ReplyDelete
I only mention this, because this was the first time it appeared someone else was attempting to lead my group. As the tank I'm generally used to that format.
I pulled the first caster mob just to illustrate the point (the one right in front of you as you zone in). He just sort of stood there for a minute before coming back to help the group. This didn't seem to get the point across. Later in the instance he was marking kill orders on flamebearers, etc. (even though my girlfriend was the healer, and planned to shackle the second while we burned down the first). After getting the first down, he instantly broke CC and started to destroy the second (while I was still dealing with the skeletons). By this time I'm a little frustrated, and I was tempted to change the marking order around, etc., to see if I could get under his skin a little. How do other people handle this? When I'm tanking the run, I expect to be the leader (unless I ask for assistance). Anyone else run into this? I can only assume this person has a tank main. Tank main or no, I don't take kill orders from a shammy. The rest of the dungeon was tense, and it boiled over at one point. I told the guy I was just there to get my badges, and we finished the dungeon out. I still don't like being questioned when I'm tanking. If I'm on my dps toons I'll defer to the tank. I expect the same from everyone else. Is that so much to ask?
This is a little off-topic (not exactly lowbie tanks), but it frustrated me enough to ask other people to comment on it. I hope you don't mind.
t0xic (frustrated tank)
I think the reason lowbies (and higher levels) follow the tank is because they're the ones that are supposed to be holding the mobs.ReplyDelete
Let's say the rogue knows where he's going and properly points himself at the start of the passage to the left.
The rest of the group could possibly join him, but until the tank goes that way they can't start pulling anyway.
As a leveling dps I've been that person standing facing the right way to go, but it's 50-50 whether the other party members will join me before the tank does.
Speaking of DTK - what's with the tanks who pull the whole room with the acid spewing A-bombs at once? That room is actually harder to heal than any of the boss fights in that place. Pull the whole room and it's a real PITA.ReplyDelete
I'd say it's just difficult to follow someone who's behind you. The tank has to be in the front, and may be reluctant to repeatedly check chat for advice.ReplyDelete
It's an ego problem a tank can have (my main and my primary alt are both tanks). It's important to understand that the tank is only one-fifth of the group of PEOPLE you're playing with. Play nice and work it out.
It's also nice to know in PoS that if you mount up immediately and ride to the right, you can beat many spawns and get to Forgemaster Garfrost's steps right away, without any fights.
re: XORReplyDelete
Let him die. I was tanking DTK for my daily frost badge when the unholy DK decided it would boost his DPS by summoning Army of the Dead on boss #1. I stop tanking and stand next to the healer, as protection the healer became my only responsibility.
- Anonymous2:56 PM, January 15, 2010
"I'm not completely sure why the tank is assumed to be in charge."ReplyDelete
I have a warrior tank and I wish it isn't assumed. We are there to generate aggro and take the hits, not to babysit others...
Yes, I agree that it's accepted that tanks lead and dps follow. What you don't mention is whether you spoke to this shammy about his actions or not, or if your healer had indicated intent to shackle, etc, etc. While there is always the chance of 'tards who are incapable of listening, communication is key. Most people are not mind-readers.
AlvarNunez said...ReplyDelete
"Speaking of DTK - what's with the tanks who pull the whole room with the acid spewing A-bombs at once?"
That room is designed so that the Abominations are on patrol paths that spend most of their time inside the "shared aggro" range of the stationary goul packs.
A skilled tank who is patient can wait out the patrol, and pull individual groups if his timing is good.
An unskilled or impatient tank will pull at the wrong time, and get two or three groups. Especially if his party is urging him to "gogogogogo!".
An overgeared tank may deliberately pull the entire room, just for fun. If I time it right, I can get two abominations and two ghoul packs at once. (Make sure to face the abominations away from the party.)
It sounds like you and your gf were the ones being the problem in that group. You started out by going the wrong way and wasting time. Then you were ignoring the marked kill order.
Your gf was CCing without calling it out and you were getting mad that they were being broken?
And you won't follow someone's leadership just because of the class they're playing? You got one hell of an ego there man.
- Anonymous3:34 PM, January 15, 2010
This having the tank as leader is the one reason I don't tank even though I have leveled as a prot Warrior. I like the class and the class mechanics but I'm not a leader, so I don't run 5 mans.ReplyDelete
class/role does not equal leadership. maybe you and your girlfriend should try communicating with the group. if you weren't marking things then the shaman did the right thing by attempting to insure the group was coordinated.
- Hairymuppet4:40 PM, January 15, 2010
I think the main reason tanks generally assume leadership is not just because it's their job to take control of every pull... but simply because it's faster and less complicated. Even if a dps knows much more about the instance, it takes time to tell the tank which pulls to do, and even marking takes a few seconds to do properly. Why bother when most tanks can pull everything willy-nilly and not run into any problems.ReplyDelete
Fair enough if the tank has no experience in an instance, then they say so and someone else says "I'll mark/lead the way" and everyone's happy, but this case is generally rarer than most. And after all this time most dps are used to following, and tanks used to leading, that changing it on an instance that the tank knows like the back of his/her hand is only gonna cause tension. (And tanks generally know instances very well, since they're constantly on the lookout for pats and stuff.)
On a final note, any rogue/hunter who used misdirect/tricks to pull onto the tank (or any dps pulling for that matter) WITHOUT checking with the tank first if they're happy for them to do it, deserves to be killed by that mob. It's not only a matter of it being a pain to organise those mobs rushing at me from nowhere... it's a matter of respecting the tank, and the job they're doing. Sure it's dead easy in heroics, but on the same grounds I could say "yeah I won't bother pulling those 5 mobs off that trigger happy dps, we can still finish the instance with only 2 dps."
it's already been said, but people follow the tank because he's the one who is supposed to be getting hit. as a tank, i recognize that it's my job to learn each encounter even if nobody else does. if i didn't know where to go or if it's my first time in an instance, i have no problems asking questions, though.ReplyDelete
i definitely have a problem with other people pulling. my healer in a hup run the other day decided to pull a pack of additional mobs while i was tanking an abomination, which is no problem as far as my ability to stay alive or his ability to heal me, but the fact that i'm playing a big fat tauren with a my back to a wall staring at a gigantic monster in front of me could easily have led to me not being able to see the mobs that he pulled, and could have ended up with him dead, then the rest of us. i told him if he did it again, i would drop group, he told me to pull faster, i told him to learn to tank, he told me he was a healer, and then he shut up and healed and let me pull.
i used to pull in vanilla days on a hunter. the reason that we don't pull anymore is because the nature of the game changed. holding five mobs isn't hard anymore, pats aren't as complicated.
maybe the shaman had the leader tag on him? wouldn't surprise me, if you aren't signing up to lead, if he did and figured you didn't know what to do. and if you weren't marking and didn't tell him that your gf was going to shackle, then what's your beef? almost no one ccs anymore, unless it's as a response to a pending disaster. and for real "i don't take kill orders from a shammy"... wtf? if it infuriates you to have someone else mark, you should be marking yourself.
- Lothiradin7:29 PM, January 15, 2010
Tanking that whole room is one of the few fun parts in DTK for an overgeared tank ;).
As to the tank leadership, I repeat what has been mentioned above - while anyone can tell people where to go, in general the group can't go anywhere without the tank running in first, so I suppose it's simply efficient/natural to let the tank lead (unless they're completely incompetent).
- Anonymous2:56 AM, January 16, 2010
Authoriy is an odd one that I've never really considered until now.ReplyDelete
Quite a nut in farming randoms, in the beginning for the dog and ach, but in the end for the sheer amount of fun I get from doing it.
Don't know how it is as a DPS since I'm totally impatient and capable of switching to Tankspec
but I love the speed at which you get teleported to a random destination, with random people.
And thats where the magic only begins..
Small mindgames like:
do we have a suicidal dps onboard? how many will die from poison nova?
will the healer get interrupted ?
keep it very entertaining if you feel very comfortable as a tank.
And if you are in that comfort zone, and gear and experience is the reason why you are in it then it is more than obvious you will always be the backbone that should lead on to victory.
Dps can only do as much dps as the tank can keep aggro. Healers can only heal period.
If you have to have imba in your party, let it be a tank and thou shalt always have clear sailings.
And thats why, THEY SHOULD RESPECT MY GODDAMN AUTHORITEH!
To be honest, this authority issue is why I was always afraid to tank. Now I don't mind much because I know my way around most places, but I don't think I could ever level a tank first... not knowing exactly what the bosses will do and where I should be going is just easier as DPS, for some reason.ReplyDelete
This is definately something I've noticed going from a Mage to bear Druid. As a tank I've had to really learn the dungeons and mobs a lot more than as dps - which mobs are linked, do I need to move the boss, etc. Knowing more about the dungeon naturally leads to leading. Having said that, if another party member knows more about a pull than I do, I'm more than happy to defer to them.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9:19 AM, January 17, 2010
I am married to a man who has 3 level 80 tanks, so I am familar with what they should be doing and how. However, as either a healer or dps myself, people aren't looking at me to lead, as it has been aptly pointed out. So if I'm in a pug and I see a situation where problems are arrising, I usually take one of two courses:ReplyDelete
1) It is now possible to macro the marking icons, and mine are, so I simply focus the tank and click a handy button to put a skull on his target. Or if he's obviously clueless, just mark things and the tank usually hits that. This most often works. If it doesn't....
2) Politely remind people of what needs to be happening. "Please hit what the tank is hitting, it's been marked." "Please turn on RF/Ret aura." If non-verbal cues aren't working, communication is in order. Nice communication is appreciated.
- Anonymous4:12 PM, January 17, 2010
These days most tanks will chain pull heroics. When I'm tanking, DPS can't get ahead of me because I've already pulled the next group before they finish killing the last one. With a good healer the party can not leave combat for the entire instance.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9:40 AM, January 18, 2010
Im an old warrior tank and not to sound like a grumpy old man, I really miss the the old days of Vanilla when grouping really meant working as a group.ReplyDelete
To make a generalization, it seemed there was less "Phail" back then. Hunters could pull and main assist, rogues could sap properly, and mages could sheep pull and they didn't mind doing it. It was expected.
Leadership wasnt too much of an issue, teamwork was better back then. Off subject sorry, but also downtime wasn't seen as a bad thing back then. Now its just gogogogo! I always made sure my mana drinkers were topped off and happy. Again it was just teamwork, and every class brought their own leadership to the table in terms of class knowledge and skill.
sorry for teh QQ
I will back up the assessment that much of the deference to a tank comes from them being the ones that pull and set the pace. Often you have to assert this authority, and a few words at the beginning of the instance will help this. As an overgeared tank, I like to chat with my PUG healer and make sure they let me know if I start pulling too fast for their mana or I bore them.ReplyDelete
We've been working on teaching a new raid tank (spec swap), and there's a lot of specific instruction with that. They've stated that they didn't realize there was as much stuff they needed to be aware of; that it was almost completely relearning the fights.
@ Anon 1/18
I also remember the "good ol' days" of vanilla, and I think the perception of "less fail" is rose colored. I recall trying to put together Strat and Scholo and UBRS runs that fell apart. The end game was also more inaccessible and more unfriendly, so there weren't as many participating and required a fewer mistakes. How many times do you remember people being knocked off the balcony back into the whelps? How many scholo runs did you see end at the first big room because of terrible puls or an errant fear?
It's an interesting change since BC, when I started pally tanking. Since the advent of the "randomizer", I find that I'm usually not running as much with guildies and friends just to get my daily done. And there are some seriously different play styles. Add in the overgearing for heroics, and we're awfully casual about pulling a huge room of mobs.ReplyDelete
I don't care if I'm leading or following, but I do care if the DPS is pulling mobs that I dont know about. What tends to happen is DPS being "helpful" by pulling more mobs, but they end up on the DPS or the healer because gee, it was behind me or some other brilliant plan. Communication, as said before, is key.


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Q. Whenever a team goes to a training camp, there are certain guys who go there designated as starters. In your mind, what are Cortez Allen and Jason Worilds going into this camp?
A. Starters.
Q. Why do you look at them that way?
A. They were solid contributors a year ago to our efforts defensively. They've been around this program and understand the level of expectation and what's expected. It's their time. They're continually ascending, or they need to be, and we'll give them that benefit of the doubt as we go into training camp. Obviously, things are subject to change, but what they've done here in Pittsburgh to this point in their careers I think merits that.
Q. Ben Roethlisberger is your franchise quarterback. What do you need from him in this camp to put this team on the right path?
A. He needs to be what his teammates need him to be, formally and informally, on the field and off. Not only is he a capable player, but he's a veteran one. He understands the drill, what we're doing here and what we aspire to do. He needs to be a shining example of all of those things for our young players.
Q. When you say "he needs to be what his teammates need him to be," is that one thing or is it something different for each of his teammates?
A. It's a multitude of things. It's a very complex answer, probably, to a simple question. That's what comes with leadership, and that's what comes with being where he is in his career and the position that he plays.
Different people need different things from him. He's got to provide them what it is they need. Maybe it's a pat on the back, maybe it's a kick in the butt, maybe it's individually, maybe it's collectively. He and I spent a lot of time talking about those things, and he understands it. It's a very complex balancing act, but one that I think is done naturally for those that play that position. The men who play that position, particularly as long as he has, understand what comes with it.
Q. When you talked to the media after minicamp, you said that you learned where the buttons on the young guys are. What are you going to do with those buttons at training camp?
A. We'll push them. (Laughs)
Q. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
A. The training camp process – the team-building process – is one where you're not only evaluating who stays and who goes, but just getting an understanding of the people you're potentially working with. What makes them tick? What motivates them. Strengths and weaknesses, and so forth. That's what all of this is about. That information can be gathered during the OTAs and minicamp.
I talk a lot about "football in shorts" and the perception of that, and I mean it. I don't want to make too many judgments in regards to somebody's playing ability during an offseason program, but you can make some judgments about how they learn, how they process information, how they take in information, how they work, how they respond to positive things, how they respond to negative things, etc.
Q. When the pads go on for the first time, are you looking for anything in particular from these new people?
A. More than anything, I'm looking for who stands out positively or negatively. When you infuse pads into a drill, there are some who are going to stand out or rise up, and there are some who are going to shrink. I'm always interested in what happens in regards to that.
Q. Does your impression of a player in that regard change over the course of camp, or is your experience that if the guy shrunk the first time, that's pretty much it?
A. I acknowledge that it's capable of changing, but my experience also tells me that usually what you're seeing is what you're seeing in regards to that. Guys understand the gravity of the moment the first time you put the pads on. Those who shy away from it, I think that's a pretty good indication of where they are.

subset: commoncrawl


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text:
VICTORIA – The man behind "HarperPAC" says it lived and died in a few days to make a point about third-party advertising in Canadian politics.
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Tom Fletcher is legislature reporter and columnist for Black Press. Twitter: @tomfletcherbc


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Grumpy Cat Takes the Internet by Storm
This furry character has become the latest and greatest trend of internet memes. His naturally grumpy face has led to a number of hilarious images that are taking the world wide web hostage with laughter.
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Dear Graduate:
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President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST), 51790-51791 [2012-21063]Download as PDF
[Federal Register Volume 77, Number 166 (Monday, August 27, 2012)] [Notices] [Pages 51790-51791] From the Federal Register Online via the Government Printing Office [www.gpo.gov] [FR Doc No: 2012-21063] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST) AGENCY: Department of Energy. ACTION: Notice of partially-closed meeting. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: This notice sets forth the schedule and summary agenda for a partially closed meeting of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST), and describes the functions of the Council. Notice of this meeting is required under the Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA), 5 U.S.C., App. 2. DATES: Friday, September 7, 2012. ADDRESSES: The meeting will be held at the National Academy of Sciences (in the Lecture Room), 2101 Constitution Avenue NW., Washington, DC. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Information regarding the meeting agenda, time, location, and how to register for the meeting is available on the PCAST Web site at: https://whitehouse.gov/ostp/pcast. A live video webcast and an archive of the webcast after the event are expected to be available at https://whitehouse.gov/ostp/pcast. The archived video will be available within one week of the meeting. Questions about the meeting should be directed to Dr. Deborah D. Stine, PCAST Executive Director, by email at: email@example.com; or telephone: (202) 456-6006. Please note that public seating for this meeting is limited and is available on a first-come, first-served basis. SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: The President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST) is an advisory group of the nation's leading scientists and engineers, appointed by the President to augment the science and technology advice available to him from inside the White House and from cabinet departments and other Federal agencies. See the Executive Order at https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/pcast. PCAST is consulted about and provides analyses and recommendations concerning a wide range of issues where understandings from the domains of science, technology, and innovation may bear on the policy choices before the President. PCAST is co-chaired by Dr. John P. Holdren, Assistant to the President for Science and Technology, and Director, Office of Science and Technology Policy, Executive Office of the President, The White House; and Dr. Eric S. Lander, President, Broad Institute of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Harvard. Type of Meeting: Open and Closed. Proposed Schedule and Agenda: The President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST) is scheduled to meet in open session on Friday, September 7, 2012, from 9 a.m.-12:30 p.m. Open Portion of Meeting: During this open meeting, PCAST is tentatively scheduled to hear from speakers who will provide information on innovation and public private partnerships, and innovation inducement prizes. PCAST will also receive an update on its study of the Networking and Information Technology Research and Development (NITRD) program. Additional information and the agenda, including any changes that arise, will be posted at the PCAST Web site at: https://whitehouse.gov/ostp/pcast. Closed Portion of the Meeting: PCAST may hold a closed meeting of approximately 1 hour with the President on September 7, 2012, which must take place in the White House for the President's scheduling convenience and to maintain Secret Service protection. This meeting will be closed to the public because such portion of the meeting is likely to disclose matters that are to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy under 5 U.S.C. 552b(c)(1). This notice is being published less than 15 days prior to the meeting date due to programmatic issues, logistical circumstances, and member's availability. Public Comments: It is the policy of the PCAST to accept written public comments of any length, and to accommodate oral public comments whenever possible. The PCAST expects that public statements presented at its meetings will not be repetitive of previously submitted oral or written statements. The public comment period for this meeting will take place on September 7, 2012, at a time specified in the meeting agenda posted on the PCAST Web site at https://whitehouse.gov/ostp/pcast. This public comment period is designed only for substantive commentary on PCAST's work, not for business marketing purposes. Oral Comments: To be considered for the public speaker list at the meeting, interested parties should register to speak at https://whitehouse.gov/ostp/pcast, no later than 12:00 p.m. (EDT) on Friday, August 31, 2012. Phone or email reservations will not be accepted. To accommodate as many speakers as possible, the time for public comments will be limited to two (2) minutes per person, with a total public comment period of 30 minutes. If more speakers [[Page 51791]] register than there is space available on the agenda, PCAST will randomly select speakers from among those who applied. Those not selected to present oral comments may always file written comments with the committee. Speakers are requested to bring at least 25 copies of their oral comments for distribution to the PCAST members. Written Comments: Although written comments are accepted continuously, written comments should be submitted to PCAST no later than 12:00 p.m. (EDT) on August 31, 2012, so that the comments may be made available to the PCAST members prior to this meeting for their consideration. Information regarding how to submit comments and documents to PCAST is available at https://whitehouse.gov/ostp/pcast in the section entitled ``Connect with PCAST.'' Please note that because PCAST operates under the provisions of FACA, all public comments and/or presentations will be treated as public documents and will be made available for public inspection, including being posted on the PCAST Web site. Meeting Accommodations: Individuals requiring special accommodation to access this public meeting should contact Dr. Stine at least seven business days prior to the meeting so that appropriate arrangements can be made. Issued in Washington, DC on August 22, 2012. LaTanya R. Butler, Acting Deputy Committee Management Officer. [FR Doc. 2012-21063 Filed 8-24-12; 8:45 am] BILLING CODE 6450-01-P
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The Secret Beyond Matter
The entire list
Adnan Oktar Says...
Short videos - Don't miss
A9 TV, September 29th, 2011
ADNAN OKTAR: The only unspoken issue that hasn't been talked is about the organization being communist. They don't talk about that. Their resource is again a communist/ Leninist idea. This will continue unless the invalidity of that idea is not being discussed and the man hasn't been educated.
You can't get a result other than this. YOU WILL ONLY PROPAGANDIZE FOR COMMUNISM. FOR INSTANCE; IT SAYS THAT THE TRAITOR TRAP KILLED THIS MANY PEOPLE. THIS IS A HUGE ACT OF THE PKK. ALL THE NEWSPAPERS HEADLINED IT. FOR 30 YEARS EVERYDAY THE PKK WANTS TO BE IN THE NEWS. THIS IS AN ENOURMOUS KIND OF ORGANIZATIONAL PROPOGANDA. Night and day all the televisions and newspapers are referring to the PKK. Night and day. This is being discussed as the number one issue in Turkey.
THIS IS A STUPENDOUS ORGANIZATIONAL PROPAGANDA. UNWILLINGLY THEY MAKE WIDESPREAD PROPAGANDA IN PRESS, RADIO AND TELEVISION BY NOT WANTING THE REQUIRED PROPAGANDA METHOD OF COMMUNISM AND LENINISM. THE PRIMARY NEED OF THE ORGANIZATION IS PROPAGANDA. In order to provide courage, enthusiasm, excitement, tenacity to fight to their supporters, this news has to be published. These needs to be heard.
For instance; EVERY REPORT OF A DEATH , EVERY REPORT OF A BOMBARDMENT GIVES A SPIRITUAL POWER AND STRENGTH TO THE PKK MEMBERS' HEARTS. THAT WILL PROVIDE ENTHUSIASM AND WILL ENCOURAGE THEM FOR MAKING NEW ATTACKS. BUT IF YOU PERFORM COUNTER PROPAGANDA, THEN THE MAN LOOSES HIS OWN BELIEF. NEITHER HIS ENHUSIASM, NOR HIS TENACITY TO FIGHT WILL BE LEFT. HE WILL BE PACIFIED. THIS WILL CONTINUE UNLESS IT IS DONE, IT WILL CONTINUE. I'm watching the television; there isn't any other subject. Just the PKK is being discussed. Night and day. We look at the newspapers, there isn't any issue other than the PKK . Everybody is speaking of the PKK. In this way, the propaganda that the organization needs the most is being provided without this fact being recognized. Of course, it is being done in good faith, but unconsciously they [the media] are enormously serving the organization. Because if the PKK doesn't perform an act even for one day, than it will cause a deformity in them, on the PKK. That will demotivate them. For instance, only for one day if there hasn't been news of a bombardment or some terrorist act then this will cause a slackness in them. Slowness. But they excitedly listen to every bit of news regarding an attack. They have radios, pocket radios, televisions. They always talk about this subject with each other. For this reason, if counter propaganda is being performed, then they will collapse inside. Whenever they hear of it, that will prick their conscience. Whenever they hear of it, they will understand that they are on the wrong path. Whenever they hear of it, they will understand that their ideology is an emptiness and they are fighting for the sake of an empty goal, and they will understand that they are killers with no purpose. And then they will give up.
Star, August 25th, 2012
Ozay Sendil, an author at the Star newspaper stated in his article, " Media is the best partner of a terrorist. The terrorist act itself is nothing, the promotion of that act is everything." and he reviewed the bomb attacks in Gaziantep accompanied with comments from the media that might be supportive of terrorism. Moreover, Turkish media prefers the "sensational" and "narrative" expressions so this considerably serves the terrorism.


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When the Koreas suddenly began the push to form a joint Olympic team in women's hockey, angry parents of South Korean players considered public demonstrations against the notion. They thought the plan would cost their daughters time on the ice — and, just as important, put them right in the crossfire of inter-Korean politics.
Once the Pyeongchang Olympics opened, though, attitudes started changing.
As Team Korea becomes one of the hottest newsmakers in the Winter Games, their daughters are drawing crowds of spectators and journalists who want to know more about a squad at the center of rare rapprochement moves between the two rival Koreas split along the world's most heavily fortified border for 70 years.
"I'm so proud of my daughter," said Woo hee-jun, mother of South Korean substitute goalie Han Dohee, who hasn't hit the ice in all three of her team's preliminary-round matches. "If Dohee plays, I would be happy to see that, but I still come to the stadium to root for the joint team because she's part of it."
All three games at the Kwandong Hockey Center were filled with thousands of spectators chanting "We are one" and waving a blue-and-white "unification flag" that North and South Korean hockey players put on their uniforms instead of their national flags. Hundreds of others waited in lines to enter the stadium — a highly unusual scene in a country without a professional women's hockey team.
The team's first two matches against Switzerland and Sweden both ended in crushing 8-0 defeats. It lost again to historic rival Japan 4-1 on Wednesday. But world media cared more about the historic significance of the games, rather than scores, and the team's first goal recorded Wednesday. After the debut game Saturday, Swiss players and their coach were bombarded with questions about how they felt going up against such a historically important team.
After her team's Japan match, Han went up to the stand to meet her mother, grandmother and other family members.
Patriots, Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics and more
"I feel sorry to my family because I failed to play on the games. I should train harder," Han said. "I really want to (play) and I will just get myself prepared to play anytime."
Woo said she had a "bittersweet feeling" because the Korean team clinched its first goal but that she couldn't see her daughter on the rink again.
The squad's formation initially triggered a serious backlash in South Korea, with a dozen North Korean athletes being added to South Korea's 23-person team. A survey showed that about 70 percent of South Koreans opposed the team's makeup.
South Korean Prime Minister Lee Nak-yon tossed fuel on the fire after local media cited him as saying his nation's hockey team was already "out of the medal range" while backing the idea of a combined team. He later offered a public apology, though he said his comments were taken out of context.
Woo said she was initially quite frustrated at the joint team plans. The 12 North Korean hockey players include a goalie — her daughter's position. "It didn't make sense," she said. "But it was something the government was pushing to do, and we are weak so that we had no other options (other than) to follow its decision."
Woo said she's a bit relieved after her daughter asked her not to worry too much because she and the North Korean goalie, Ri Pom, could learn from each other. Han confirmed Wednesday that she doesn't feel any rivalry against Ri, saying she's getting along with all 12 North Korean players. She described them as "innocent" and "pure-hearted."
Heo Saeng-gum, mother of South Korean defender Kim Selin, who appeared in both of the preliminary round matches, said she feels very sorry for the South Korean players who could lose playing time. "If somebody is taken off an entry, they would suffer the pains and a sense of loss."
Nevertheless, Heo considers her daughter an "honor of our family." Her husband, Kim Woo Il, said he's proud of his daughter for "marking a chapter in the history" of inter-Korean relations and paving the way for a chance to promote hockey in South Korea.
Every move by North and South Korean players was in the news. They held birthday parties for two North Korean athletes, took a selfie together, created a dictionary to overcome a linguistic divide between the Koreas and visited an east coast beach together to enjoy winter breezes and sodas.
On Monday night, when South Korean forward Choi Jiyeon spoke to reporters that she's grown close to two North Korean players, Hwang Chung Gum and Kim Hyang Mi, she called them "eonni," a Korean word used when a woman refers to an elder sister or friend.
"The eonnis approached and talked to me first, and they cared for me," Choi said.
After the Olympics, Korean players will be separated, probably for good, because the two Koreas bar their citizens from visiting each other or exchanging phone calls, letters and emails.
"The other day," Woo said, "Dohee told me she'll likely cry because there are no ways to stay in touch with North Korean players once they leave here."
Follow Hyung-jin Kim on Twitter at @hyungjin1972. More AP Olympic coverage: https://wintergames.ap.org


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Biennial Report of the State Inspector of Mines, 1906.
Names in this online transcription include Bromletto, Dyer, Erickson, Fairbrother, Fisher, Fuller, Kaiser, Leonesio, Leukamaa, Long, Maki, McCracken, Mikkelson, Miller, Nikoli, O'Brien, Stone, Tate, Trewhella, Walker.
Labels: South Dakota, Mining Accidents
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