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Each week in The A.V. Club, we run a feature called Random Rules, in which agreeable musicians, actors, or other entertainment types talk about the first few songs to come up on their randomized MP3 players. We set out to do one with Glenn Danzig—famed frontman of The Misfits, Samhain, and Danzig, and also the artist behind a pair of classical CDs, including the recent Black Aria II. Then we learned he doesn't own an MP3 player. But he's still passionate about music, as the following conversation reveals.
The A.V. Club: Do you own an iPod?
Glenn Danzig: I hate iPods. [Laughs.] I like albums. I like holding them, seeing what they're all about, you know? I like reading liner notes. Even if it's a CD, you're getting kind of an idea of what the band is coming from. Or what they want you to think they're coming from. I like that.
AVC: When you're a musician on the road, though, iPods are really convenient.
GD: I don't even listen to music on the road, and if I did, it would be classical or whatever, something to chill me out. Actually, CDs sound so much better than MP3s. I'm sure they'll come out with a better format someday. Really, your iPod is just this little temporary go-between. Everybody will have to throw them out someday. I remember when they came out with quad vinyl. That was going to change everything, you know?
It's funny, I'm really into eight-tracks, because it's tape, and it sounds nice and thick. I really like it. I go on eBay every once in a while to look for eight-tracks. But you should see the prices that reel-to-reel tapes go for, those old four-track reel-to-reels that came with the cover artwork and everything. I saw an Elvis one, and Johnny Cash. I didn't get the two Johnny Cash reel-to-reels, 'cause at the last minute they went from, like, $8 to $70. That's crazy. But I think people are realizing that the tape format sounds really good. It's just so bottomy and thick and full. It sounds so different.
AVC: What else have you been listening to?
GD: Mostly my own music that I'm working on. I'm listening to it to review it. But here's something I'm listening to right now: Setherial.
AVC: Which album?
GD: I don't know. [Laughs.] I got it in the mail, and I put it on my CD player. It's the latest Setherial. It's black metal.
AVC: Do you keep up on black metal?
GD: One of the people at my old label sent me this. Some stuff I like, and some stuff I don't. But this is one of the things that I actually liked. I like the song structures.
AVC: So you're into the Scandinavian stuff?
GD: Yeah, actually, the reissue of that old Emperor record, the early one with Mortiis on it, is in my car right now. Oh, and the latest Belphegor.
AVC: Do you ever hear your influence on other bands?
GD: Some of them are pretty vocal about being influenced by this or that. Some of them cover Misfits or Samhain songs.
AVC: Have you rediscovered any old bands lately?
GD: I'm always listening to Black Sabbath. Actually, I just got the eight-track for the first Black Sabbath record. I love all four of the first records.
AVC: When did you first hear Black Sabbath?
GD: I'm actually the kid who turned everybody in my town onto Black Sabbath. I remember going into Sam Goody and looking in at the new arrivals. They had a jillion copies of this and a jillion copies of that, and they had one copy of Black Sabbath. Nobody knew who it was. I'm flipping through the vinyl, and all of a sudden I see this thing. It says "Black Sabbath," and there's this girl in a witch's cloak, and she's in this burned-out fucking electric forest or whatever. I didn't know what it sounded like. They didn't have listening stations back then. I just thought, "This has to be good."
AVC: Your vocals are pretty much the trademark of all your bands, but Black Aria II is an instrumental, classical album. Do you really listen to much classical?
GD: I do listen to classical music, just not lately. I was watching some movie the other day, and I was, like, "Oh, man, I gotta get that soundtrack." I forget what it is now.
AVC: Your new album is based on the ancient Mesopotamian myth of Lilith. It looks like you've been doing your research.
GD: That's my whole life. I read a lot. I've always read a lot. I'm finally finishing up my library in my house. I have so many books. I think that's something the fans know, but not a lot of other people in the media know. I probably know more than most so-called authorities. But that's where I come from. That's part of who I am.
AVC: Conceptually, it's like your music has gone from Tales From The Crypt to William Blake over the years. Have you always wanted to get into bigger ideas?
GD: I always have. In The Misfits, it started getting too crazy with Earth A.D. The concepts stared becoming too brutal and violent. It was less about fiction and more about the real world, the past, present, and future. I think a lot of people got freaked out by that. [Laughs.] People don't want to think about that kind of shit. But now, they're being forced to think about it. On the news, they just showed some child predator who had an ankle bracelet on. He was like some blip on a radar screen, and they showed him pacing back and forth in front of an elementary school, scouting out little kids. The things that I used to get in trouble for saying are now all coming to pass. I remember getting reamed by the media because I talked about priests molesting little children. They were like, "That doesn't happen." Now, with 24-hour news, people just can't ignore it any more. They can't pretend that it doesn't happen. They're being bombarded by it.
AVC: That's the same problem a lot of people had with Black Sabbath.
GD: Black Sabbath was saying, "War is always going to be here." If you look at where the world's been and where it is right now, nothing's changed. The way we kill people is a little different now, but man's inhumanity to man is just as bad as it's always been. I think it's a nature thing. Most people don't realize they have no control over it. When there are too many people, I think nature—whatever nature is—weeds shit out. I don't think it's something we're conscious of.
AVC: Do you listen to any happy, positive music?
GD: Anything that makes you feel good is happy and positive. It takes two negatives to make a positive. [Laughs.] I've always been the person who likes to take negatives and turn them into positives. And if they stay negatives, that's okay, too.


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Indianapolis, IN – The Indianapolis Colts released safety Tom Zbikowski Friday following one injury-plagued season with the team.
The Colts signed Zbikowski to a three-year contract last March, with the former Baltimore Raven starting the club's first 11 contests before missing five straight outings with a knee sprain. The Notre Dame product was deemed expendable, however, after Indianapolis reached agreement with free agent LaRon Landry on a reported four-year, $24 million contract on Thursday.
Zbikowski compiled 38 tackles, one sack and one interception in his lone season in Indianapolis.
The 27-year-old spent his first four NFL campaigns with the Ravens, during which current Colts head coach Chuck Pagano then served as a defensive assistant.

subset: commoncrawl


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American Hotel Income Properties REIT LP Announces August 2019 U.S. Dollar Cash Distribution
15 Aug, 2019, 16:05 ET
VANCOUVER, Aug. 15, 2019 /CNW/ - American Hotel Income Properties REIT LP ("AHIP", "the Company") (TSX: HOT.UN, HOT.U, and HOT.DB.U) announced today a cash distribution of US$0.054 per limited partnership unit ("Unit") for the period of August 1, 2019 to August 31, 2019, which is equivalent to US$0.648 per Unit on an annualized basis. The distribution will be paid on September 13, 2019 to unitholders of record at the close of business on August 30, 2019.
The policy of AHIP is to pay cash distributions on or about the 15th day of each month to the unitholders of record on the last business day of the preceding month.
American Hotel Income Properties REIT LP (TSX: HOT.UN; HOT.U and HOT.DB.U), or AHIP, is a limited partnership formed to invest in hotel real estate properties located in the United States. AHIP is engaged in growing its portfolio of premium branded, select-service hotels in larger secondary markets that have diverse and stable demand. AHIP hotels operate under brands affiliated with Marriott, Hilton, IHG, Wyndham and Choice Hotels through license agreements. The Company's long-term objectives are to build on its proven track record of successful investment, deliver reliable and consistent U.S. dollar denominated distributions to unitholders, and generate value through the continued growth of its diversified hotel portfolio. More information is available at www.ahipreit.com.
SOURCE American Hotel Income Properties REIT LP
For further information: Jamie Kokoska, Director, Investor Relations, Phone: 604-670-6242, Email: [email protected]


text: SOS Children's Village Pfalz The SOS Children's Village Pfalz was established in 1959 and consists of fourteen family houses, where about 60 children are living. It is situated in a plain, only a few kilometres from the Rhine river and close to the cities of Kaiserslautern and Mannheim. The SOS Children's Village Pfalz offers a kindergarten with 25 places for children from two to seven years to the neighbouring families. An educational community for eight children in problematic family situations is also enclosed to the SOS Children's Village Pfalz. The children receive care six days a week for a maximum duration of two years. During these two years, the educators aim at stabilizing the situation and re-integrating the children into their natural family. In addition to this program, a family counselling centre was opened in the vicinity of the SOS Children's Village Pfalz, offering the assistance of psychologists and educators to children, youth and parents in difficult situations. Moreover, a close cooperation with local schools and kindergartens was established. A youth community for young people who can not live in their natural families for a variety of reasons completes the program of the SOS Children's Village Pfalz.


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" 'Fotogramas' and Film Culture in 1940s and 1950s Spain" will showcase covers of the magazine from 1946 to 1962, together with displays relating to censorship, cinema theaters, and handbills from the 1940s and 1950s in Spain.
New York University's King Juan Carlos I of Spain Center (53 Washington Square South, New York, N.Y.) will host an exhibit from February 12 to May 3 celebrating the film magazine Fotogramas. Founded in 1946, Fotogramas is the only Spanish film magazine of the era to survive today. The exhibit – Fotogramas and Film Culture in 1940s and 1950s Spain – will showcase covers of Fotogramas from 1946 to 1962, together with displays relating to censorship, cinema theaters, and handbills from the 1940s and 1950s. (Curator: Ana Cabello.)
The exhibit will stage its inauguration event Tuesday, February 12, 7:00 p.m., with remarks by Jo Labanyi (NYU) and Vicente Sánchez-Biosca (NYU-University of Valencia-University of Paris III). A reception will follow.
In addition, a round table discussion on film magazines and film culture in Spain (1920s – 1960s) will be held Wednesday, March 27, 7:00 p.m. in conjunction with the exhibit. The speakers will explore the history of film magazines in Spain over half a century, focusing on their role in constructing cultural imaginaries. Toni Ulled Nadal, the current editor of Fotogramas and grandson of the magazine's founder, will be on hand.
Eva Woods Peiró (Vassar College), "'Soy/Eres una estrella': Magazines and Star-building in 1920s and 1930s Spain"
Jo Labanyi (NYU), "The Photographs in Fotogramas: The First Two Years (1946-1948)"
Kathleen M. Vernon (SUNY – Stony Brook), "Media Divergence in a Modernizing Nation: Fotogramas in the 1950s and 1960s"
Moderated by Isolina Ballesteros (Baruch College CUNY).
A reception will follow.
Acknowledgments: KJCC extends its thanks to Fotogramas for making this exhibit possible, and to ICAA—Ministerio de Educación, Cultura y Deporte for permission to use material from the cultural program Fotogramas de posguerra held at the Matadero, Madrid, June 2012. Fotogramas de posguerra was conceived and directed by Ana Cabello; produced by Altea Alcalde, Teresa Cabello, and María Ángeles Serón; curated by Natalia Giménez and Clara Zarza; and designed by Estefi Martínez.
For more information, contact KJCC's Laura Turégano, Associate Director, (212) 998 3652 email@example.com, or Cristina Colmena, Press Relations, (212) 998 3650, firstname.lastname@example.com.


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Get up, stand up, rock out. In style
No rocker who really deserves the title should refrain of playing standing up and this little strap will help all kids do just that. Manufactured in Canada by Levy's Leathers, this ¾" leather guitar strap with a 1¾" movable pad and buckle adjustment will add comfort and stablity to impromptu home concerts and its buckle adjustment (adjustable from 43" to 53") makes joining in possible even for adults. Best thing? It makes dropping the Loog while playing almost impossible.


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Towards a new global agreement to facilitate investment for development
Representatives from 113 economies have finalized a new agreement on sustainable Investment Facilitation for Development at the World Trade Organization.
The World Economic Forum – committed to improving the state of the world – is the international organization for public-private cooperation. The Forum engages the foremost political, business and other leaders of society to shape global, regional and industry agendas.
Representatives from 113 economies have finalized a new agreement on sustainable Investment Facilitation for Development at the World Trade Organization.
The Forum, Bain, Ralph Lauren, Vestiaire Collective and EVRYTHNG, have launched a pilot to ensure the authentication of fashion products in second hand markets.
The Forum and the city of Helsinki have developed an innovative blueprint for leveraging the power of data to proactively improve the residents' lives.
The World Economic Forum is convening stakeholders with a role to play for global cities to have a chance of reaching the net zero carbon goal for by 2030.
The Centre for the Fourth Industrial Revolution (C4IR) has been a key contributor in helping shape Rwanda's AI strategy.
The Centre for Cybersecurity is identifying future cybersecurity risks created by next-generation technology in order to avert a possible cyber pandemic.
Turkey must reskill more than 21 million workers to meet the demands of the future of work. The new Turkey Closing the Skills Gap Accelerator will help.
More than a decade after a global financial crisis that spawned new policy tools designed for traumatic events like COVID-19, will they be enough?
On September 10 2001 my wife and I arrived in New York as I was to receive the Candlelight award from then-UN-Secretary-General Kofi Annan. That night we had a very inspiring conversation...


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Earning $100, $200 or even $300 per day with Google AdSense is not an impossible job.
Many bloggers and website owners are doing it, and you are not an exception. The only thing you need is better planning and execution, hard work, determination and passion for blogging about your topic or niche.
Before diving into the exact process, let's know some terminology for better understanding of Google AdSense and how you can generate more revenue by selling your ad inventories on your blog.
What Is AdSense: It's a monetization program by Google for online content from websites, mobile sites, and site search results with relevant and engaging ads.
CTR : Your ad Click-through Rate is the number of ad clicks divided by the number of individual ad impressions. Suppose you are showing 3 AdSense ads on every page, your 1 page view is equal to 3 ad impressions.
CTR = Clicks / Ad Impressions X 100
Suppose, you get 5 clicks out of 500 ad impressions, your CTR would be 1% (5/500X100).
CPC : Cost-Per-Click is the revenue you earn each time a visitor clicks on your ad. CPC is usually determined by the advertisers. In some competitive niches like finance, marketing, online products etc. advertisers may be willing to pay more per click than others.
CPM: CPM means "Cost Per 1000 Impressions."
Sometimes advertisers opt for CPM ads instead of CPC and set their price for 1000 ad impressions. And they pay each time their ads appear on any website.
Let's Make $100 Everyday With Google AdSense, Right?
For the convenience of calculation we assume that – You serve your AdSense ads on your blog or website, irrespective of showing your ads on your mobile site and added the site search results with AdSense.
Your CTR is 1% and your average CPC is $0.25. It's quite achievable and lots of bloggers usually get it. We also assume that Page View = Ad Impression for easy calculation. You can manipulate the parameters on your own for desired results.
- To make $100 everyday you need 40,000 Page Views/day Or, 400 Clicks a day @ 1% CTR and $0.25 CPC. For 40,000 Page Views you have to produce 500 awesome articles or blog posts which attract at least 80 or more page views/article everyday.
- Apart from CPC, you will also earn from your CPM ad impressions. Irrespective of any niche, the average CPM earning is $1 to $1.5 per 1,000 impressions. You can make $40 to $60 per day easily from 40,000 page views.
- You can also sell your Ad space directly or via BuySellAds.com and generate $6,000 Per Month on an average from 40,000 page views. Check out how webmasters and bloggers are making $6,000 to $8,000 Per Month fromBuySellAds with forty thousand page views per day. So your daily earning will be $200 (6000/30=200).
- A niche blog with high quality articles converts very well withaffiliate marketing. You can easily earn $40 to $80/day from affiliate selling with correct implementation and execution.
Now your total earning per day is $100 + $40 + $200 +$40 = $380 from CPC, CPM, Direct Ad Sell, Affiliate Marketing for 40,000 page views per day. I've taken the lowest possible earnings from all the 4 sources.
$380 per day means $11,400 per month (380X30= 11,400) Or,$136,800 per year (11,400X12=136,800). Isn't it a whooping amount to lead a lavish life?
Which is well above your desired earning of $100 per day from Google AdSense, right? 1000s of bloggers are making money this way, and you can also do it. The only thing I want to say is "Be Focused!"
P.S. The above results can be possible if you produce at least 200 to 250 great articles or blog posts per year for 2 years. So how much traffic you actually need to make $100 per day from Google AdSense – It's way less than 40,000 Page Views Per Day!


text: - With notes of notes of Solid Black Ebony Wood, Ripe Peaches, Apple Blossom. The perfect size to pepper throughout a room, you'll enjoy a clean burn with our proprietary coconut wax blend. As enchanting as the aroma itself, this tin features a nod to 1920s' design. The details are timeless and replete with glamour. Burn time is approximately 25 hours. Candle Volume: 4 ounces. Metallic tin container with lid. Proprietary coconut wax blend. Hand-poured in the United States. Sustainable, ecologically-sound, pesticide-free manufacturing. No animal testing. Phthalates, parabens and sulfate free. 100% cotton wicks. Unparalleled fragrance integrity. Adhere to the highest quality/regulatory standards.


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The Japanese laboratory that retracted a paper reporting a potentially major breakthrough in stem cell research said Wednesday its researchers have not managed to replicate the results.
Scientists at the government-affiliated Riken Center for Developmental Biology said they are still trying to match results reported in two papers published by the journal Nature in January and then retracted in July. But they refused to say whether or not they expected to succeed in doing so.
"It's like asking scientists to try to predict the odds of winning a lottery," said Shinichi Aizawa. Later in the press conference he said his analogy was not entirely apt in explaining his reluctance to speculate on the chances for success.
Riken scientist Haruko Obokata, originally lauded for leading the research that raised hopes for a discovery of a simple way to grow replacement tissue for various diseases, is participating in the experiments. They are to continue until next March.
Obokata and other researchers in Boston and Japan participating in the project said they used a simple procedure to turn ordinary cells from mice into stem cells. They exposed cells from spleens of newborn mice to a more acidic environment than they are used to.
Having failed to generate the stem cells using spleen cells from one type of mouse, the scientists plan to use cells from another type of mouse, and from other organs, and to alter the methods of stressing those cells, said lead researcher Hitoshi Niwa.
The discovery of problems with the original research caused an uproar and prompted an investigation at Riken. One senior Japanese scientist involved in the research died earlier this month in an apparent suicide.
Riken announced plans Wednesday for an organizational overhaul to prevent any further problems, changing its director and reducing the number of researchers by half.


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Bursts of Productivity Are Key to Getting Things Done
Practice "Deep Immersion" to limit your email-induced ADD.
There's a reason people find email to be such a drag on their productivity. It is. More to the point, it's a treasure trove of distractions. Each new email represents an escape point, an entreaty to deviate from the task at hand. We accept this burden, thankful for email's "convenience," and slog on--oscillating between suspecting it might cause our ADD and outright knowing it.
Accepting that distraction is part of modern work life, the "Deep Immersion" approach posits that the antidote to constant distraction is long, uninterrupted bursts of productivity.
Deep Immersion hinges on reducing the cost paid each time we start--or restart--a task. If you spend 10 - 15 hours at once on a project, rather than stretching that time out in 1 hour chunks over several weeks, you streamline your thinking. Rather than starting and stopping every few hours or days and having to actively remember how to get back into it, or where you left off, deep immersion only requires you "get started" once--affording you a flow-like period of uninterrupted productivity.
Writing on his blog Study Hacks, Georgetown Professor Cal Newport sees the benefits of the time allocation technique as twofold:
1. It reduces overhead. When you put aside only a couple hours to go deep on a problem, you lose a fair fraction of this time to remembering where you left off and getting your mind ready to concentrate. It's also easy, when the required time is short, to fall into the least minimal progress trap, where you do just enough thinking that you can avoid breaking your deep work chain, but end up making little real progress. When you focus on a specific deep work goal for 10 – 15 hours, on the other hand, you pay the overhead cost just once, and it's impossible to get away with minimal progress. In other words, two days immersed in deep work might produce more results than two months of scheduling an hour a day for such efforts.
2. It better matches our rhythms. There's an increasing understanding that the human body works in cycles. Some parts of the week/month/year are better for certain types of work than others. [A] professor's approach of spending the fall thinking and discussing ideas, and then the spring and summer actually executing, probably yields better results than trying to mix everything together throughout the whole year. During the fall, he rests the part of his mind required to tease out and write up results. During the spring and summer he rests the part of his mind responsible for having original thoughts and making new connections.
What we're really talking about here is focus. And this complements the theory offered by Gary Keller and co-author Jay Papasan in their book The One Thing—that the most successful people are known for just one thing, passion or skill.
Quartz staff writer Vickie Elmer notes that this theory comes from Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto's principle, "which showed that 80 percent of wealth was held by 20 percent of the people. This works elsewhere as the 80/20 principle, where a small portion of effort leads to oversized results. 'Things don't matter equally. …The smaller I make my life, the bigger it gets,' says Keller, the co-founder and chairman of Keller Williams Real Estate. Great bosses understand that businesses will succeed when staff are encouraged to excel in one domain."
All this raises the question, does multi-tasking work? More importantly, is the North Star of government leaders ("do more with less") actually something to aspire to? Might it instead be creating an environment where, people torn between innumerable tasks, are less productive than if they, perhaps, did less with less?
What'd you think?
Read more about Deep Immersion at Study Hacks.
Image via Varijanta/Shutterstock.com


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I recently did a little bit of shopping on eBay and found some great bargains. Heck, shipping cost more than the cards themselves. Unfortunately, I got them from 5 different sellers so I couldn't take advantage of a shipping discount, but I'm not crying.
Above are my only two Chin-lung Hu autographed cards. He use to sell for a hefty premium when he was a legitimate prospect, but no more. They can be had for a song and a dance. I got the 2008 Upper Deck Signature Premier card on the left for $2.25 and the 2008 Topps Chrome card on the right for $0.99. Below are the reverse of the cards and, as always, you can click on any of the pics to enlarge.
The next three cards were all purchase for only $0.99 each. On the left is a 2010 Obak Blake Smith brown back (numbered 45 out of 75), center is a 1997 Upper Deck SP Top Prospects of Adrian Beltre, and at right is a 2007 Bowman Best Blue Refractor of Andy LaRoche (numbered 29 out of 99).
Sunday, June 12, 2011
Mailbag: Some Dodger Autographed Bargains
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Defending national champion Florida State is ranked No. 1 in the preseason Amway coaches' poll.
Florida State received 1,543 overall points and earned 56 of a possible 62 first-place votes in the poll, which was released Thursday. Alabama was second in the poll despite not receiving any first-place votes. Rounding out the top five were Oklahoma, Oregon and Auburn with the first-ever playoff looming at the end season.
Ohio State was sixth, UCLA seventh, Michigan State eighth, South Carolina ninth and Baylor 10th.
The Southeastern Conference had five of the top 13 teams in the poll, with No. 12 Georgia and No. 13 LSU joining Alabama, Auburn and South Carolina.
Oklahoma received three first-place votes. Oregon, Ohio State and South Carolina received one first-place vote each.


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Page 404
1 Friday, 13 October 2006
2 [Rule 11 bis Hearing]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 4.04 p.m.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Good afternoon. Madam Registrar, would you please
7 call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is case number
9 IT-96-23/2-PT, the Prosecutor versus Dragan Zelenovic.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
11 We're here today for a hearing under Rule 11 bis. May we have the
12 appearances. Prosecution first.
13 MS. SOMERS: Good afternoon, Your Honours; counsel. For the
14 Prosecution, Susan Somers; to my left, Mr. Aleksandar Kontic, legal
15 officer; to my right, extreme right, Ms. Verica Balikic, case manager;
16 assisted by Mr. Greg Bodulovic.
17 Thank you.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
19 And for the Defence.
20 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours. I'm
21 attorney-at-law Zoran Jovanovic from Belgrade appearing on behalf of
22 Mr. Dragan Zelenovic.
23 Thank you.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. And then we have a videolink with
25 Sarajevo. Perhaps I should have first have checked whether the -- I do
Page 405
1 not receive interpretation at this moment, but -- yes.
2 Could you please introduce yourselves from Sarajevo. That's --
3 you're representatives of the -- of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Please
4 proceed.
5 MS. BASIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Your Honours, on behalf of the
6 government of Bosnia and Herzegovina and the delegation of Bosnia and
7 Herzegovina, we would like to thank the Referral Chamber for allowing us
8 to participate via videolink.
9 I would now like to introduce to you the members of the
10 delegation. Mr. Emir Neradin, registry office for section 1 and 2 of the
11 court of Bosnia and Herzegovina; Ms. Mechtild Lauth, office of the
12 registrar for department 1 and 2 of the court of Bosnia-Herzegovina;
13 Mr. Philip Alcock from the Prosecutor's office of Bosnia and Herzegovina;
14 Ms. Stephanie Godart of the Prosecutor's office of Bosnia and Herzegovina;
15 and I as head of the delegation, Fatima Basic come from the Ministry of
16 Justice of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Ms. Basic, for introducing yourself.
18 Mr. Zelenovic, I had not yet asked you whether you could hear us
19 in a language you understand. Yes, you can?
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes. Yes.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Zelenovic, it maybe clear that additional
22 opportunity will be given to the parties now and to the government of
23 Bosnia and Herzegovina to add whatever they would like to add to their
24 written submissions. You may remain seated.
25 I had in mind to give a short opportunity to the Prosecution to
Page 406
1 make any further submissions, or to reserve their time, as you have done
2 before, I take it, I remember, Ms. Somers, to say, well, nothing to be
3 added at this moment, but I'd like to have some time at a later stage. I
4 think that altogether some 20 minutes would do.
5 Would you like to add anything at this moment, Ms. Somers, or
6 would you rather reserve your time?
7 MS. SOMERS: May I reserve, please?
8 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
9 MS. SOMERS: Thank you.
10 JUDGE ORIE: So 20 minutes still available to Ms. Somers.
11 Mr. Jovanovic, is there anything you'd like to add to the
12 submissions you've given already and annexes attached to it, or if you
13 would like to summarise at this moment? You have also -- altogether you
14 have 20 minutes available to -- and if there is any need, if there is a
15 lot of new stuff, then of course you could apply for more time.
16 Anything you'd like to add or to summarise?
17 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
18 Very briefly, given that all of the arguments of the Defence were
19 included in our motion on the 22nd of September, now I would just like to
20 briefly point out some additional issues which were contained in our
21 motion, but I would like to give you additional clarification. Not even
22 in relation to all of the points, just some of the points. I can do it at
23 any time that the Chamber deems convenient.
24 JUDGE ORIE: If you want to give any additional clarification,
25 you're invited to do that right now.
Page 407
1 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
2 Your Honours, as I have stated, the arguments of the Defence are
3 contained in our written motion. In a way, the Defence found itself in a
4 situation where we not only challenged the arguments listed by the
5 Prosecution in this referral case, but we also had to challenge some other
6 decisions issued here at ICTY in the case against Stankovic and Jankovic,
7 which is a bit of an awkward situation.
8 I would now like to point out some of the issues that I consider
9 relevant. I am fully aware of the position taken previously by the
10 Referral Chamber about the fact that there exists in Bosnia and
11 Herzegovina a court that can accept the cases referred by the ICTY and
12 that there are no impediments for cases being tried there. What I think
13 needs to be further clarified, and perhaps additional clarification can be
14 given by the representatives of Bosnia and Herzegovina, is the application
15 of the law.
16 In Stankovic and Jankovic cases, the Referral Chamber already took
17 the position considering the law that is to be applied, whether it is
18 going to be the law of the SFRY, which was in force at the time when the
19 crimes were committed, or whether it is going to be the law on criminal
20 law of Bosnia-Herzegovina, which was adopted in 2003, the Criminal Code of
21 Bosnia-Herzegovina. And in Annex I of Defence submission, I attached the
22 indictment issued by the prosecutor of the Brcko district dated the
23 13th of July, 2005, which is to say at the time when the state court of
24 Bosnia and Herzegovina and the war crimes chamber in Sarajevo had already
25 been established and when the new Criminal Code of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Page 408
1 had already been adopted, the code with amendments, particularly those
2 pertaining to Article 4(A) of the Criminal Code.
3 I would like to draw the attention of the Chamber to the fact that
4 this was the case referred by the Prosecution of this Tribunal to the
5 Brcko district. The OTP here did not issue an indictment. However, they
6 completed the entire investigation and referred the case to Bosnia and
7 Herzegovina. The decision of the Prosecution was quite clear. They
8 qualified the crimes in that indictment in the light of the law that was
9 in force at the time when the crimes were committed, which was the
10 Criminal Code of the SFRY.
11 I additionally emphasise that --
12 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, Ms. Somers.
13 MS. SOMERS: I'm sorry. I beg your pardon for interrupting at
14 this time. But in order -- at this moment so that there is no
15 misunderstanding, it was not a referral by the Office of the Prosecutor.
16 At best, it was a Rules of the Road case. It is not a referred case. So
17 the language I think needs to be clarified considerably.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Mr. Jovanovic, Ms. Somers draws our attention
19 to the fact that it was not a referred case but that it was a case
20 which -- I understand the Rules of the Road with the full consent of the
21 OTP was dealt with by a court in Brcko and not by this Tribunal. They
22 gave the green light to have the case prosecuted over there.
23 Unless you would disagree, you're invited to proceed.
24 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
25 Naturally this was a case where the indictment had not yet been
Page 409
1 issued by this Tribunal. However, the evidence accompanied by the letter
2 of the Prosecutor was sent to Bosnia, to the Brcko district. This was not
3 a case where -- this was not a case of a referral under 11 bis. I fully
4 agree with that.
5 This case pertain to the events in the Luka camp in Brcko. Goran
6 Jelisic was convicted by this Tribunal for the same events, and in this
7 case the same events were included. So as I said, as long as the law of
8 Bosnia and Herzegovina was in force, the Prosecution of Bosnia and
9 Herzegovina qualified these acts, among other things, in Count 4 -- or,
10 rather, in Count 6 of the indictment as rape and other acts based on
11 Article 4.
12 Article 4 speaks of the principle of legality and the principle of
13 lex mitior, that is to say that, namely, the law more beneficial to the
14 accused needs to be applied. The different approach taken by the
15 Prosecution in Bosnia and Herzegovina, even though it concerns in this
16 case the Brcko district, can lead to legal uncertainty; namely, the
17 accused finds himself in a situation where the Referral Chamber submits to
18 the Prosecution and to the Chamber in Bosnia and Herzegovina -- rather,
19 when they allow them to choose which law is going to be applied should the
20 case be referred. So the accused does not know in advance which law is
21 going to be applied.
22 I think that it is necessary to establish very clear criteria --
23 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Jovanovic, this seems to be a big
24 misunderstanding. The only thing this Referral Bench has done in the past
25 is to make sure that whatever law will be applied in accordance with the
Page 410
1 local legislation, the legislation in Bosnia-Herzegovina, not knowing
2 exactly what case law would develop, that there is nothing in either the
3 old law or in the new law which would result in a situation where the
4 applicable law would not enable to try these cases, without saying
5 anything on which law had to be applied, because it's not within the
6 competence of this Referral Bench to decide for the courts in Bosnia and
7 Herzegovina, how they should interpret their legal system, especially in
8 view of the applicability of law in terms of time.
9 So there's a consistent case law of this Referral Bench which
10 makes abundantly clear, I would say, that this Referral Bench is not
11 saying apply this law or apply that law. We're just having an overview
12 and see that no results could be expected which would be, our law does not
13 provide for the instruments which would allow to punish those who are
14 found guilty of the crimes covered by the indictment as it lies before
15 this Tribunal at this moment. That's the only thing we're doing.
16 So it seems that your argument was based upon a wrong
17 understanding of the task of this Referral Bench.
18 Please proceed and keep this in mind.
19 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Thank you, Your Honour.
20 At the outset of my presentation, I said that given the previous
21 rulings of this Chamber has established that there is a firm legal
22 framework in Bosnia-Herzegovina, regardless of which law is going to be
23 applied, be it the one which was in force at the time when the crime was
24 committed or the one that was adopted later, and this is all pursuant
25 Article 4(A).
Page 411
1 The important distinction that I would like to draw your attention
2 to is the sentence which is provided in the law. At the time, when these
3 crimes were committed, the law which was in force when the crimes were
4 committed stipulated that the maximum sentence was 20 years, whereas the
5 new law specifies that the minimum sentence is 10 years and maximum
6 sentence is 20 to 40 years.
7 I just wanted to reiterate that regardless of the role of the
8 Chamber that you have just explained yourself, at the time when the
9 Chamber rules on whether this case is going to be referred to Sarajevo or
10 not, the accused finds himself in a situation where he doesn't know which
11 law is going to be applied. I think that Bosnia and Herzegovina needs to
12 establish clear criteria as to exactly which law is going to be applied
13 under those circumstances. Naturally, both laws facilitate unhindered
14 proceedings, and naturally there is a possibility that the charges would
15 be dropped and proceedings suspended.
16 Now, as to Bosnia and Herzegovina, I think that they need to
17 clarify the following: Once the case is referred and once --
18 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Jovanovic, are you telling -- at this moment are
19 you saying that Bosnia and Herzegovina should clarify for this Referral
20 Bench, or are you saying Bosnia and Herzegovina should clarify in its
21 future case law, well, whatever you'd like to address? Is it relevant at
22 this moment for our decision, or is it just for future development in the
23 case law of Bosnia and Herzegovina?
24 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] I think that in general their
25 position needs to be clarified. As for the jurisprudence of the Referral
Page 412
1 Bench, it is quite clear.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Before we continue, we have some difficulties with
3 the videolink at least.
4 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
5 JUDGE ORIE: It seems to us that the videolink with Bosnia and
6 Herzegovina has been re-established. Did you miss important parts? Are
7 you long already deprived from what was said in The Hague?
8 Could I ask you, Ms. Basic, to inform me?
9 MS. BASIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, we didn't miss anything.
10 We heard everything that was said, and we can even reply to the question
11 raised by the Defence.
12 In accordance --
13 JUDGE ORIE: I would first, as a matter of fact, give an
14 opportunity to Mr. Jovanovic to finish had his argument and then there
15 will be an opportunity to -- to make your observations in relation to
16 that.
17 Mr. Jovanovic, I consulted with my colleagues. The future
18 development of case law in Bosnia-Herzegovina is not something that would
19 be very important, very relevant. We are looking forward to -- to see
20 what happens there, but it's not relevant for our decision at this moment.
21 So you are invited to proceed and to leave this.
22 One question, you said maximum sentence was 20 years under the old
23 law. Isn't it true that death penalty was the maximum sentence?
24 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Then you're referring to the term of imprisonment
Page 413
1 that could be imposed. Then that's well understood.
2 Please proceed.
3 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour, I was referring
4 to the term of imprisonment, because the 20-year imprisonment was in fact
5 a substitute for the death penalty. However, pursuant to further
6 developments, it became impossible to implement the death penalty any
7 longer.
8 I have nothing else to add, Your Honours. I would just like to
9 draw your attention to the fact that it is possible to qualify the act in
10 two different -- significantly different ways given the sentence envisaged
11 for that act, and that it would be beneficial if clear criteria were to be
12 established so that the accused know exactly, even though it's not going
13 to be contained in the decision as you stated, the decision only specifies
14 that it's possible to conduct the proceedings in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
15 However, I think that Bosnia and Herzegovina needs to establish very clear
16 criteria so that the accused knows which law is going to be applied.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Jovanovic, now I think for the third time you try
18 to revisit a matter on which I first said that it was based on a
19 misunderstanding, then I said it was irrelevant, and now you try it for
20 the third time, which is -- well, let's say not very intelligent to do.
21 Please proceed.
22 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honours. I just
23 announced that this was it as far as my arguments were concerned in
24 relation to this issue.
25 As for all other directions given to the Defence as to stating our
Page 414
1 position, it is fully explained in our motion dated the 22nd of September,
2 and I have nothing further to add to it.
3 Thank you.
4 JUDGE ORIE: We've read that carefully.
5 Ms. Basic in Sarajevo, I would like to give you an opportunity to
6 add anything you think of relevance to the submissions, the extensive
7 submissions, including case law, full text case law for us.
8 May I ask you also to keep in mind what I just said to
9 Mr. Jovanovic about the relevance of some of his submissions and that
10 further development of case law in Bosnia and Herzegovina is not within
11 the competence of this Chamber to further elaborate on.
12 Please proceed.
13 MS. BASIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, we believe that given
14 the gravity of the crime and the level of criminal responsibility, this
15 case meets the criteria under Rule 11 bis for referral to the BH
16 Prosecutor, especially if we bear in mind the fact that the Stankovic and
17 Jankovic cases were referred and are being successfully tried, all the
18 more reason to back the motion to have this trial, too, referred to
19 Bosnia-Herzegovina.
20 As for the application of law, perhaps my colleague Mr. Neradin
21 can provide an answer to that.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, Mr. Neradin, you're invited to deal with the
23 matter. Please keep in mind that of course this Referral Bench has
24 already received a lot of information and has in its decisions I think
25 also already explained what our role in this is.
Page 415
1 Please proceed.
2 MR. NERADIN: [Interpretation] Thank you.
3 Given the fact that this is not what this hearing is really about,
4 all I can say is that the BH court has already established a body of case
5 law in a number of trials that have been completed so far. The Abduladhim
6 case, the Appeals Chamber of the BH court has passed a judgement in that
7 one. There are three other cases where we have sentences; in the
8 Samardzic, Simsic, and Paunovic cases. The court applied the Bosnia and
9 Herzegovina Criminal Code in these proceedings. These judgements have
10 already been forward and fully explained.
11 Thank you.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you very much, because we have received
13 the full text of the judgements you're referring to now. I must admit I
14 have not read them in full yet but will do so before a decision will be
15 taken, that we are acquainted with these developments in the case law of
16 Bosnia-Herzegovina.
17 Is there anything else, Ms. Basic, you would like, or Mr. Neradin,
18 you'd like to add at this moment?
19 MS. BASIC: [Interpretation] At this point in time, I have nothing
20 to add. Thank you very much.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then I am moving to you, Ms. Somers. You
22 reserved your time. We're now in the second round, more or less. Would
23 you like to make observations either in addition to what you have put on
24 paper already or in response to what the Defence or the government of
25 Bosnia and Herzegovina has submitted?
Page 416
1 MS. SOMERS: Thank you, Your Honour. Just a couple of points and
2 very briefly.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
4 MS. SOMERS: With respect to what has been raised by my learned
5 friend opposite, Mr. Jovanovic, the case, just to set the record straight,
6 that was referred to in Brcko was not an OTP investigation. It was at all
7 times a Bosnian investigation. Strictly rules of road and received a
8 green light in August of 2000 for continued processing in
9 Bosnia-Herzegovina. So that there is no misunderstanding that it was not
10 subject to indictment here as was alleged on page 5, line 16, I believe,
11 in the record.
12 In terms of the level and gravity, which are the principal issues,
13 we stand, of course, on our submissions that this case falls squarely
14 within the contemplated level of the accused, lower to intermediate, and
15 the gravity of offence falls squarely as has been effectively confirmed by
16 this Bench and the Appeals Chamber in the sister case of Jankovic. The
17 fact that those cases are well under way provides a body of law that
18 should be allowed, as I understand it, to be applied to this case should
19 it be referred and allow for a speedy trial in Bosnia-Herzegovina in the
20 state court; that the designation of Bosnia-Herzegovina is correct as we
21 indicated in our submissions. There really should be no issue on that.
22 And that the direct perpetration, 7(1) charges, are the gravamen. There
23 is no 7(3) in this case as both we emphasise and BH.
24 If there is anything we can help the Bench with, please let us
25 know, but I think that we just want to stand on our submissions and
Page 417
1 correct the record that was made today, as done.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
3 Mr. Jovanovic, is -- do you feel any need at this moment to
4 respond to what Ms. Somers just said?
5 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour. I believe the
6 matter has been clarified in relation to Annex I.
7 As for the other matter, this is something that has already been
8 raised by the Prosecution and the Defence has already replied to that.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you.
10 [Trial Chamber confers]
11 JUDGE ORIE: I have one question for you, Mr. Jovanovic.
12 You're explaining in your submission that you're concerned about
13 witnesses living in Serbia which under the European Convention on Mutual
14 Assistance in Criminal Matters could not be forced to appear before a
15 court in Sarajevo and might not be inclined to go to Sarajevo. It is not
16 entirely clear to me what your -- what your concern is. Are you afraid to
17 lose them as witnesses at all, or are you concerned about the way in which
18 they'll bring their information, bring their knowledge of the events
19 before the court in Sarajevo?
20 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, it's certainly not
21 the latter. I'm not concerned about that, what the witnesses might
22 possibly say before the court. It's only about the accessibility of
23 witnesses or their desire to respond to a Defence summons to appear in a
24 trial held before a Sarajevo court. There is the ECMACM that exists
25 pursuant to an agreement or a treaty signed between Bosnia and Herzegovina
Page 418
1 and Serbia. This sort of assistance would be provided only in cases where
2 witnesses living in Serbia was in a position to testify via videolink at
3 the Sarajevo trial. It is pursuant to that agreement that the Belgrade
4 court would then make sure that all the conditions, technical conditions,
5 were in place for something like that to be done.
6 However, based on a brief preliminary investigation, there are a
7 number of witnesses potentially essential for our case who reside in
8 Belgrade. Any binding summons by a BH court, and this has been explained
9 on a number of occasions because in keeping with the BH Criminal Code it
10 is the duty of a witness to respond to a summons, which is the same as
11 applies in Serbia, and a failure to respond to a summons is liable for
12 penalty. However, a summons cannot be served on citizens of the Republic
13 of Serbia or those residing there.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. That's all clear from your written submissions
15 already, but let me then be more concrete.
16 If they, even after you've explained to them, because you write in
17 your submission they are afraid of being prosecuted, I think the treaty as
18 such, do we agree on that, protects whatever witness who is called to
19 appear on the basis of this convention is -- has a, how do you say, has a
20 safe conduct if he appears? Do we agree on that?
21 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I apologise. I may
22 have misunderstood, but it is precisely safe conduct that was discussed
23 when the ruling was made in the Stankovic and Jankovic cases, and doubt
24 was cast on the possibility of their having such a measure implemented.
25 Let's say there is a person who is charged with specific crimes in
Page 419
1 Bosnia-Herzegovina. If this person resides in Serbia, at the moment this
2 person reaches Bosnian soil this person will be arrested. So safe conduct
3 does not apply in this case. At least that's my position.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, that's your position. Although the -- if he is
5 summoned under the convention you just mentioned, he has a safe conduct
6 under that convention. Isn't the convention not quite clear on that?
7 Isn't it true that the European Convention says that someone who is
8 summoned on the basis of this convention and appears before a foreign
9 court could not be arrested, prosecuted, whatever? I mean -- and if you
10 say that's not in the convention -- I haven't got that text here at this
11 moment, but ...
12 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I think the position
13 of Bosnia and Herzegovina is that any such person would be arrested, any
14 persons being investigated or under detention measures. The moment they
15 step on Bosnian soil they will be arrested.
16 JUDGE ORIE: We'll ask Bosnia and Herzegovina. But let's just
17 assume that that is then not a way to get these people in before the court
18 in Sarajevo. Isn't it true that under that same convention you could ask
19 a witness to be heard or to be examined in Serbia in the presence of the
20 parties who come from Bosnia and Herzegovina and even could attend the
21 examination of a witness in accordance with that treaty, what they call an
22 examination under letters rogatory?
23 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. We're now
24 talking about those witnesses willing to respond to the prompting by the
25 Defence, and then it's down to them to organise a videolink.
Page 420
1 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Jovanovic, isn't it true that if through letters
2 rogatory a witness would be examined on the territory of Serbia not as
3 part of the trial but perhaps in pre-trial proceedings, that where you
4 couldn't force a witness to come from Serbia to Sarajevo, that you could,
5 however, force a witness to appear before in his local court and be
6 examined there so that at least the transcripts or the report of that
7 testimony or -- perhaps I shouldn't call it testimony, but that statement
8 can then be used abroad in Sarajevo? And isn't it true that under those
9 circumstances it depends on Serbian law that the situation were exactly
10 the same if someone if -- if someone was summoned before a Serbian court
11 and is therefore under an obligation to appear?
12 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, you're entirely
13 right. My interpretation is much the same as in Bosnia-Herzegovina there
14 is the obligation of a witness to attend a Serbian court for proceedings
15 being held before a Serbian court. The Law on Criminal Procedure applies
16 to proceedings before Serbian courts. Therefore, if there's a summons by
17 a BH court and the person receiving the summons lives, resides in Serbia,
18 there is no obligation whatsoever to appear and to respond to the summons,
19 unlike a situation with a tribunal which has the power to issue a binding
20 summons.
21 So a Bosnian court has no power to issue any form of binding
22 summons to anyone, resident or citizen of the Republic of Serbia.
23 JUDGE ORIE: It seems, Mr. Jovanovic, we still do not yet
24 understand each other. Let me try to be clearer.
25 If -- and we are still talking about the European Convention on
Page 421
1 Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters. If a court in Bosnia and
2 Herzegovina would like to receive the information available to a witness
3 who lives in Serbia and who is unwilling to come to Bosnia and
4 Herzegovina, couldn't they then ask the Serbian authorities to examine
5 that witness in Serbia before a Serbian judge, add to that request that
6 the parties in the Bosnia and Herzegovina case could attend that
7 examination of the witness? Would the witness under those circumstances
8 not be under an obligation to appear before the Serbian court where he
9 gives testimony which will then be relayed on paper to the court in Bosnia
10 and Herzegovina? That's the situation I'm talking about.
11 Is that a possibility, in your view; and would he be under an
12 obligation then to appear before his Serbian court?
13 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, my interpretation of
14 the agreement is that this means assistance. A court in Serbia can and
15 indeed must, within the terms of this agreement, make sure that a witness
16 is heard, but I don't think this is binding for any citizen of Serbia to
17 appear and testify before a Sarajevo court. So although this may be done
18 before a court in Belgrade, this is still a trial that is held before a
19 court in Bosnia and Herzegovina. In that sense, there is nothing binding
20 and no obligation.
21 Perhaps we could imagine a similar situation. Say the OTP are
22 summoning a person in Serbia for --
23 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Jovanovic, have you any case law to rely upon,
24 any practice which would support your position?
25 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this is not an
Page 422
1 example from the case law. I am in touch with the justice ministry of the
2 Republic of Serbia, their legal assistance department, and they told me
3 about this position that I'm informing you about now. There have been
4 videolinks between the Belgrade court and the Sarajevo court, and this
5 seems to work very well, but that still doesn't mean that a witness can be
6 subpoenaed to appear at a Sarajevo court in any way.
7 My grievance was therefore related to the impossibility to ensure
8 the presence of a witness before the court in Sarajevo. I was just
9 telling you that this Tribunal has the power to order a witness to appear,
10 irrespective of the witness's place of residence or nationality. This
11 Tribunal has the power to subpoena a witness and to issue binding orders
12 to the witness's country, whereas the BH court does not have the same
13 powers, and I don't think an agreement has been signed that might further
14 this process and cooperation in legal matters.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you for these answers, Mr. Jovanovic.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Then I'd like to give an opportunity to you,
17 Ms. Basic, to respond to what was said by Mr. Jovanovic. He suggested
18 that if through the channels of the European Convention on Mutual
19 Assistance in criminal cases, if someone would be summoned living in
20 Serbia that that witness would not enjoy a safe conduct as provided for in
21 that convention.
22 Could you please respond to that, because it was not totally clear
23 to me on what basis Mr. Jovanovic took that position.
24 MS. BASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours. I would like
25 to pass the floor to Mr. Neradin for this issue.
Page 423
1 Thank you very much, Your Honours.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, Mr. Neradin, you may understand that I was
3 specifically referring to -- I think it's Article 12 of that -- of that
4 convention.
5 Yes, please.
6 MR. NERADIN: [Interpretation] As you've already stated,
7 Bosnia-Herzegovina is a signatory to the ECMACM. It is pursuant to
8 Article 12 of that convention there is guarantee of immunity to all
9 witnesses summoned before this court that are nationals of a different
10 country. Bosnia and Herzegovina has ratified a contract with Serbia and
11 Montenegro in legal assistance in criminal and civil matters. On the 2nd
12 of June, 2005, Article 14 guaranteed the same sort of immunity to those
13 subject to criminal prosecution. These witnesses are free to leave within
14 15 days after their presence is no longer legally required.
15 As for forcing a witness or subpoenaing a witness from Serbia,
16 generally speaking, if there is a witness who refuses to appear, there is
17 the possibility of using the instrument of legal assistance and legal
18 cooperation, be it by videolink, as counsel has mentioned, or by taking a
19 deposition from a witness pursuant to all these international agreements
20 that are after all binding for Bosnia and Herzegovina.
21 Thank you.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you for your clarification, Mr. Neradin.
23 I have at this moment no further question. I'm looking to my
24 colleagues. They have no further questions.
25 Then I would give a brief opportunity to the parties, if there is
Page 424
1 need to add anything which has been said, you have an opportunity to do
2 that now.
3 Ms. Somers.
4 MS. SOMERS: Your Honour, I can see nothing further that would
5 need to be added.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
7 Mr. Jovanovic.
8 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have nothing to
9 add.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Ms. Basic, is there anything you'd like to add
11 from Sarajevo?
12 MS. BASIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, there is nothing we
13 would like to add.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
15 Finally, Mr. Zelenovic, you have been here listening to argument
16 which is of a rather high technical nature, legally technical nature. I
17 can imagine that there is nothing you would like to add to that, but if
18 there's anything at this moment you'd like to say, and you are aware
19 we -- I mean, we are dealing with these legal technical matters because
20 it is of course for you not a legal technical matter, but it's what will
21 happen to you, but if you'd like to add anything, you may do so.
22 THE INTERPRETER: The microphone was not on.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Could you switch on your microphone if you say
24 something. Mr. Zelenovic, the interpreters couldn't hear you.
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have nothing to add.
Page 425
1 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you very much, Mr. Zelenovic. Please be
2 seated.
3 The Chamber will consider everything that has been submitted and
4 will give its decision in due course, or if it feels that it's not able
5 yet, to return to the parties.
6 We stand adjourned.
7 --- Whereupon the Rule 11 bis Hearing adjourned
8 at 4.53 p.m.


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