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Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Open letter to Mark/ChrisLanganFan et al
I'll call you Mark because that was the first name you used when you called us, and I've spoken to you at length using that name twice. If that's not your preferred name, please let me know what name I should use instead.
For a long time, I denied that your calls were coming from the same person -- I suppose due to some kind of misguided pride. After all, I thought that you and I had some interesting and even somewhat productive conversations when I was talking to you. I didn't want to feel like those conversations had been a waste of time, and I was unfairly annoyed with the viewers in email and chat who were trying to point out the obvious -- that you were disguising your voice to keep calling.
Even after accepting that you were faking the British accent, I wasn't completely convinced that you were the original "Mark." But obviously, you gave the game away when Matt asked you about it this past Sunday. Instead of asking "Who's Mark?" you answered by repeating an argument from another of your alter egos, which was basically as good as an admission. And I know you read this blog, because you're obviously the one writing in as "ChrisLanganFan" (and Andrew, when you double-posted) so I thought I'd ask you about this directly.
First of all, why do you feel the need to disguise your identity? We don't avoid conversations with real theists. A few months ago I invited you to meet us for dinner, and I was serious about it -- I'd be happy to meet with you. (Granted, I was also trying to work out whether you were really a native of Austin as you claimed. I guess I have my answer now, and I'm disappointed.)
I recognize that the internet and phone-only conversations can feel impersonal enough that you don't need to reveal every detail of your identity, but I've always valued honesty a great deal. On the web I sometimes go by the screen name "Kazim," but I've always been up front about who I really am and what my real values are. I tend to expect that of others -- sometimes, unfortunately, incorrectly.
I had a phone conversation about you with Martin once, when I wasn't sure whether you were really calling in with multiple names and voices. Here's what I said in a nutshell: "I suppose Tom might be Mark, but I don't understand what his goal is. The way I see it, there are three possible reasons why he might be doing it: 1. To make us look bad; 2. to make us look good; 3. Some kind of weird performance art." Number three doesn't make much sense to me (again, as someone who values honesty). If it's number two, we don't need your help. And if it's number one, well, first of all you're not doing a very good job of it; and second of all, I don't see how it helps you in your goal to use fake identities. Shouldn't the arguments speak for themselves without worrying about the personality?
I guess what I'm feeling most of all is disappointment mixed with a bit of confusion. On some occasions, you seemed to be very angry about the show. On other occasions, you seemed like you were actually listening to the people who were talking to you and trying to understand what they said. And in the latest calls you've started out angry and then switched topics repeatedly without settling on one point long enough to make a lasting impression about it. This Chris Langan fascination seems like a new development -- you never asked us about him in your first few calls, and you always seem to hang up before any real discussion about him can get underway. Besides that, you appear to be more fixated on the idea that Chris Langan himself should speak to us directly to defend his ideas rather than being willing to do it yourself.
So I'm just wondering which one is the real you? How do you really feel about our show, and why is it so important that you keep talking with us at all costs? Is it because you really like us, worry about us, hate us, want to shut us down, or what?
I really am interested in trying to understand you better, but I can't do it without your help. Doesn't it bother you to try to keep all these lies straight? Wouldn't it feel better to come out and say what's really on your mind? Come on, give it a try. What do you say?
If it IS performance art, then I guess you win. You've gotten past the screeners multiple times, and now you have a lot of people talking about you. That must really stroke your ego to get all that attention, I guess. Do you want to supply a web site or a podcast so people can admire other facets of your work?
Ball's in your court, Mark.
Russell Glasser
Update: "Mark" came clean in comments, pronouncing that he's an atheist who is deliberately prank calling. He repeatedly states that he will only stop if we devote 75% of the show to theist callers. He is now banned from this blog for all the previous posts in which he's lied.
133 comments:
Markuze 2.0 needs to get a life.ReplyDelete
Hey Mark you might wanna read this if you are so interested in understanding Chris Langan better: http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmath/2011/02/11/another-crank-comes-to-visit-the-cognitive-theoretic-model-of-the-universe/ReplyDelete
Maybe you wrote this yourself and that is the real you and your objective is to make the AE crew disprove Langan.
I think your option 3 might actually be changed to "troll" rather than performance artist. I suppose trolls could be considered a modern performance artists in a way.ReplyDelete
If he is a troll, your last paragraph still applies and he certainly has gotten a lot of traction. I don't blame you for trying to make an effort to investigate, though- he has certainly done a good job of making it interesting by making his various identities curiously inconsistent.
And I can see how all the attention the hosts and viewers have given "Mark" would give such a troll great pleasure- other callers come and go without much of a fizzle, but he is becoming AETV legend.
Warren, just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.ReplyDelete
I hope Mark will not just ignore this post, because then I will have to refer him back to it the next time he tries to get in touch with us.
I'm with you, I have been teetering on the fence of the camp that he is an atheist with odd tactics, so I hope he enters a dialog that will be worthy of all the time he has put into it so far.ReplyDelete
1. I want more hostile theist callers.ReplyDelete
Like this guy.
And this guy.
2. My friends and I will continue to prank you until you get something like 75% hostile theist callers. If you hang up that doesn't count. I want 75% of the SHOW to be hostile theist callers.
3. Currently it seems like you have about 20% hostile theist callers. You have a ways to go.
4. A good start would be Chris Langan. And keeping three lines open for theists.
5. Good luck.
wow, thanks for finally spelling out your motives if this is for real (reluctant to commit to believing this after all the deception, ha).ReplyDelete
I do listen to the early episodes (thanks especially to whomever seeded the archive a while back) and I do sort of miss some of the theist callers of old, but I prefer the ones who at least try to think more than the hostile or condescending ones who obviously aren't interested in a dialog.
1. This is a good call.ReplyDelete
2. This is a good call.
3. This is a good call.
4. Fact: 80% of your calls are not like this.
Funny. Many of the viewers, and I believe even the hosts, would like the show to be 75% theist callers as well--if not more.ReplyDelete
There's no need to be dishonest about it. Just call.
You really think you can tell them how to run their own show?ReplyDelete
What are you, twelve? Thirteen? "Do what I want or me and *my friends* will be MEAN to you!" {stamps feet and holds breath}ReplyDelete
Seriously, if you want an internet atheist call-in show with nothing but assholes and ill-informed theists calling in, make one yourself. The AE team runs their show as they see fit. You don't get to internet-grief them into submission. Grow up.
You should invite Church pastors to call in.ReplyDelete
You should schedule hostile church people ahead of time.
You should be fair to them and not hang up.
If you do this, my friends and I will stop pranking you.
"ChrisLanganFan: 1. I want more hostile theist callers..."ReplyDelete
I agree with you entirely (ignoring your smug attitude of course). I'd love to see more Christians call the show and get smashed into bits by Matt, Jeff, Russell, Tracieh - or whoever just like you did over and over again. That's what makes the show so much fun and so educational. And please tell your Chris Langan to call in; We would love to have him. After all we need a new version of Matt Slick and TAG to beat up on.
Cheers mate.
Also, you're a dick.
Why does that sound like an ultimatum?ReplyDelete
You realize you've pranked no one but yourself.ReplyDelete
We will stop calling as soon as the show gets 75% hostile theist callers.ReplyDelete
It's not hard. You live in Texas.
The ChrisLangan Club
Every indication is that the show gives extreme precedence to theist callers. You must know this since you have been able to get on the air so often by claiming to be a theist.ReplyDelete
How exactly are they going to control what kind of calls come in? You want them to sit around and discuss the news until they get a theist caller? Your "demands" are asinine.
Lastly, you are trying to get your way by prank terrorism. How terrible and pathetic all at the same time.
If you don't like the show, don't watch it. Make your own show and conjure up your own theist callers. Most of all, Get a life douchebag.
Are you... using your own calls as examples of good calls? That is just the height of arrogance.ReplyDelete
Once they start to call, the show will generate more views through Youtube. This momentum will build. It will become easier and easier to fill a 75% quota of hostile theist callers.ReplyDelete
Word will spread. They will call.
This will be a revolution.
The ChrisLangan Club
@CLF: If you're so adamant the show needs more 'hostile theist' callers, why 75%, why not 100%. Seems that the whole demand for percentage is rather arbitrary. Why not simply request for one of the hosts to look over your argument with the week build up to the following show, then present the information for the views at the next episode. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter if you're hostile, or gentle, your argument wont gain any weight just because you're louder and more obnoxious.ReplyDelete
We'd all love to have more theist callers, I'm really not a fan of atheists calling in!ReplyDelete
Unfortunately prank calling the show isn't the way to fix this, the best thing to do, is to promote the show in theist circles encouraging them to call in! The more theists that actually call, the more we get to talk to!
I respect wanting more theist callers, but it's a fairly ridiculous way to go about achieving that goal.
90% of everything is crap, CLF. No show is ever as good as the highlight reel, which is essentially what the YouTube clips are for TAE.go ahead and encourage theists to call, but people calling disingenuously doesn't make for any better television than people calling to gush and praise.ReplyDelete
As for Chris Langan, his argument is gibberish. There's no more point in discussing such a silly and obscure apologetic on the show than there is in debunking the Time Cube. His claims to being super-smart are spurious at best, and such intellect is useless withoutexpertise in a relevant field.
You want better calls? Stop taking up lines with trolls and pranksters. You want Chris Langan debated? Have him schedule a debate, or call in with more than "Chris Langan proved God"--such as, I don't know, a clear paraphrasing of his argument? Hell, even the king of "baffle 'em with bullshit" William Lane Craig's typical arguments can be easily rephrased and understood.
But being a troll doesn't help anyone. It just makes you look like a tool and your God look like a foolish fiction. And neither of you needs help in those regards.
How you do it is not our concern.ReplyDelete
This will be our last communication with you.
Good Luck,
The ChrisLangan Club
Wow "ChrisLanganFan" you and your friends are making asses of yourselves. Do this or else? Why should they? They don't control who calls in.... that's why it is real instead of staged like you want. You want entertainment, we want real people calling in.ReplyDelete
Why don't you encourage more theists to call into the show? It isn't the hosts job to actively go out looking for every call. I enjoy a good discussion no matter with whom, even if the caller isn't 'angry'.ReplyDelete
And if you keep 'prank calling' you are shooting yourself in the foot, since real theists will think that this isn't a show where they will be taken seriously.
btw: my word verification for this comment was 'MARKD'. Irony!
By the way stop using the word "we". You are one guy calling under different names, linking to your own calls. That's how sad you are. Nobody else is sad enough to share your little trolling venture. Now go away troll.ReplyDelete
Hahaha, dude thinks he's some kind of God.ReplyDelete
Mark/CLF is clearly a fellow with something very very strange to prove. I'm not sure what it's all about, and frankly, life's too short.ReplyDelete
Let me get this straight, Mark. You have been making fake calls to us because you think that your calls in particular are making our show better.
Let me to disillusion you, then. People hate your calls. Even before it became obvious that you were a fake, we were getting flooded with mail demanding that we stop talking to you. When you started up with the multiple personalities, people were angry at us for continuing to talk to you. Some of them even accused us of staging the calls ourselves -- unfairly, as you are obviously well aware.
It sounds to me like you think you are helping the show in some way by playing a fake theist, but that's not the case. For one thing, you're intentionally eating up valuable air time that could potentially block the real theists who do try to call in with real arguments. For another, you are making the atheism movement as a whole look bad. When we regularly accept calls as genuine which turn out to be an atheist like yourself, you're unwittingly throwing the entire open dialog aspect of the show into question -- thanks partly to you, even the genuine theists who now call are dismissed as "poes," almost always an unfair accusation. You're wasting our time and theirs, and you're proposing to deliberately sabotage the purpose of the show instead while pretending to improve it.
Even when we were just a local show on cable access, no internet clips, we never got 75% theist callers. We can't force theists to call. Since we've now got an international audience that is mostly favorable to us, the call screeners already are working overtime just to make sure that the lines that YOU ARE FILLING can accept the few theists who do voluntarily call.
And furthermore, most of the theists in the world are actually reasonable, mostly sane people. If you'll recall, I DID invite a local pastor to join us on the set one time. He was really nice, the conversation was reasonable, and people were bored with it. That's what you want more of?
Mark, you're a weak troll at best and a terrorist wannabe at worst. Please stop making yourself the biggest example of what you claim to dislike about the show.
To some degree, I can't wait for AE to move to its own studio... then they can actually get caller ID, and this loser can be banned into obscurity.ReplyDelete
If one of the admins would like to block that account from the blog - I approve.ReplyDelete
I don't think the hosts of this show will be "upset" if they get hostile theist callers. They deal with that on every show. And in their daily lives. Do you really think that its going to break their spirits? If anything, it's only going to strengthen their non belief.ReplyDelete
Chris Langan Fan,ReplyDelete
You are a liar. I don't believe that you are a club, you are one lonely person. I also don't believe that you're being honest with your goals. If you really want to make the show better, they don't need pranksters calling in being dishonest. You are actually making the show worse by doing that. Stop being a dick.
I haven't seen anyone else bring up the fact that there are now supposedly a group of people prank calling as theists- I have noticed a few others recently that didn't seem to really believe what they were arguing for (but clearly weren't the same voice)ReplyDelete
so I wonder how many theists even get through anymore.
This guy has some serious issues. I think Mabus 2.0 isn't far off the Mark.ReplyDelete
Someone needs to up their meds.ReplyDelete
"How you do it is not our concern. This will be our last communication with you."ReplyDelete
So if that was their last communication with you, then does that mean they wont be calling the show anymore?
You know, in this day and age of cheap basic gear anyone and everyone can start whatever show they want, and if other people like it then it will be popular. It strikes me as both arrogant and incredibly lazy to complain about the work of others when you have every opportunity to create something of your own.ReplyDelete
You said you hate our calls.
You know how to stop them.
-The ChrisLangan Club
Chrisandrewmarkmikelangan, EVERYONE hates your calls. You are neither insightful nor hilariously misinformed. You are just boring. If you need a new hobby, why not take up masturbation? I hear that's fun.ReplyDelete
ChrisLanganFan: Dramatic exit fail...ReplyDelete
He doesn't give a crap about the show's content, so long as he's a part of it. He's a narcissistic punk who thinks he is 'Anonymous'.ReplyDelete
If he really did care about the 'angry theist' quotient of the show, then by pranking, all he'll do is lower the youtube interest he says he's so keen in generating. All the show will become then will be squelching his prank calls like it's going out of style.
Either way Mark, you're a waste of skin and air. Go away.
Your fear of theist callers is obvious.ReplyDelete
And especially of Chris Langan.
I'd be scared too if someone had proved God and I was an atheist.
-The ChrisLangan Club
haha, I was counting the seconds after the "final transmission"ReplyDelete
ChrisLanganFan: Yeah, I'd also be "scared". Good thing that nobody did prove God then, isn't it?ReplyDelete
Kestra has it right. Your calls are nothing. It's the epitome of arrogance to try and hijack someone else's show to try and push whatever petty and ridiculous agenda you have.ReplyDelete
And I think we're giving this troll way too much attention.
Matt was right, "Chris," you can fuck right off now. Banned.ReplyDelete
Reposting your admission of trolling just for posterity before you go:ReplyDelete
1. I want more hostile theist callers.
Like this guy.
And this guy.
2. My friends and I will continue to prank you until you get something like 75% hostile theist callers. If you hang up that doesn't count. I want 75% of the SHOW to be hostile theist callers.
3. Currently it seems like you have about 20% hostile theist callers. You have a ways to go.
4. A good start would be Chris Langan. And keeping three lines open for theists.
5. Good luck.
So.. you prank as a Christian who is so feebly equipped to argue as to appear as an atheist troll that is making fun of Christians... in order to prove God?ReplyDelete
Newsflash, Chriswhatchamacallit: they're not going to obey your every whim so you'll go away. Best way to get rid of a problem such as you is to ignore it, and that's the most likely outcome of your irritating behaviour. This is the real world, not a movie in which some anonymous, mysterious caller hiding on the other end of a phone line can pathetically half-assedly (quasi-)blackmail the world into being how he/she wants it to be. Make your own damn show.ReplyDelete
yeah, thanks for banning, he had just reverted right back to low troll after he got bored.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9/13/2011 2:19 PM
Sounds like "we," "our," "my friends(?)," are being used in the royal sense in Mark's case. I agree with Kazim 100%. And I'll add it's my assumption Mark doesn't care a whit about improving the show. He just likes to hear himself on TV. I vote "performance art." We actually had a kid ("James calls in") who used to do the same thing--pretend to be a theist and see how far he could get before either Matt caught him or he gave himself up. Not very mature. Not very useful to the programming. The only difference was that James actually made better points--even as a crank. Oh, and James used to be on Youtube where he posted his prank calls. At least he took credit for his jokes.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9/13/2011 2:20 PM
this makes me think that this guy is an atheist, and he just wants to improve the show by getting more theist callers, alot of fans also want this. i dont understand why you would do it this way though. i think he might be a kid, maybe 14/15, and thus not mature or smart enough to know the right way of doing things. the show already prioritizes theist, they cant put on calls that they dont get, what more can you want?ReplyDelete
>>I'd be scared too if someone hadReplyDelete
>>proved God and I was an atheist.
Can you say projection???
What's obvious here is that CLF is scared because the evidence is working the other way disproving his god's existence and he's incapable of coping with the cognitive dissonance. So, in an effort to justify his beliefs rather than logic, he imitates multiple people to make it appear that he has more people on his side (see Maslow's hierarchy.) His attempts to debilitate the show feed into this same need. It's the same method modern conservatives have adopted, such as downrating "liberal" books they haven't read on Amazon, simply because the viewpoints are contradictory to their beliefs. If the show bothers you so much CLF, don't listen.
At least when Matt's fiance called, it was funny.ReplyDelete
"Mark" and his imaginary friends all lack that talent.
this makes me think that this guy is an atheist, and he just wants to improve the showReplyDelete
He's definitely not a Vorlon.
I guess we need another foolish atheists show?ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9/13/2011 2:45 PM
I guess the theists have admitted defeat. We're having trouble getting an authentic theist to call in. Maybe we can rent one. Is there a "rent a fundie"?ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9/13/2011 2:47 PM
Grab the number. Contact Skype. They can cross reference with the account used and then you can ban is lying butt.ReplyDelete
As a fan for years now, I don't really think the show needs more theist callers, so I will throw my possibly dissenting voice onto the pile. Here're my reasons, with numbers to give them the illusion of being organized:ReplyDelete
1) Most theist callers aren't even good enough to talk in obfuscated circles, more or less provide a proof of god. You occasionally get the caller who can change the subject enough to provide chase, but that's just frustrating.
2) Seriously, at this point, what possible new, original and exciting argument is a theist going to make? If they had a new and exciting argument to make, it'd be all over the 24-hour news networks already. "Jesus Returns, Orders Turkey Sub." Some schmo on the phone isn't going to reveal this to us.
3) Atheists still have a lot of issues to discuss. There's political issues, child-rearing, conflicts with loved ones, conflicts with employers or employees, conflicts with other atheists, conflicts with skeptics, Christmas, Buddhism, UFOs, black body radiation and the always-popular abortion. Let's get over the part where we laugh at the crazy theories of the non-fact-based community and move to the next step.
4) Sure, it's fun to watch people get shot down every once in a while, but there's an element of it that's pure spite. I don't like spiteful atheism. I like cold, dispassionate, "There's no proof so why should I believe it?" atheism. Really, who wants to support spiteful atheism?
5) I like lists that have five elements. It's kind of a superstition, except I just like it and don't expect it makes the lists better, nor that it keeps the juju away. Even I can be irrational. It's kinda fun.
That said, I'm a fan, not a meaningful contributor. You guys do whatever you need to do, even if it means discussing free will versus determinism.
Mark, you are an arrogant, lonely, annoying, and stupid individual. You haven't the intelligence to come up with a good plan, and you haven't the comprehension to understand your "plan" (if it can be called that) is complete garbage and self-defeating. You waste time of both parties (you and the show) with your annoying prank calls, and yet are arrogant enough to think your calls are entertaining, and even doing something good for the show. Both of which are not the case. Please break your tv and your phone as well as your computer because you have clearly demonstrated you can't handle them responsibly. go away and don't call back. NOBODY LIKES YOU!ReplyDelete
This incident is obviously bizarre in a multitude of ways, but the one I'm stuck on is: how does it make sense to demand of you that you have some percentage of callers with certain beliefs (theists) and in a certain emotional state (hostile)? You don't control who picks up the phone and calls into your show. What did he think you were supposed to do if you don't have enough hostile theist callers dialing in? Just talk to one of them for thirty minutes?ReplyDelete
Sigh. People can be so strange sometimes.
We're forgetting the worst part: Matt had to waste an afternoon in fucking CHURCH because of this clown.ReplyDelete
Brian, that brings up an interesting point. When "Mark" claimed to be from ASC, he came across as angry, hostile, and wanting to shut us down. The REAL representative of Stone Church turned out to be friendly and welcoming.ReplyDelete
Mark's got this fantasy theist caller in his head which only VERY rarely corresponds to a person that actually calls in. And like some theists, he's gotten very hostile when reality doesn't match his expectations.
I don't get it. The show doesn't get enough theist callers, so how does taking up air time with bullshit solve this problem? Also, the gall "Mark" has is unbelievable. What fucking right do you have, Mark, to tell other people what to do with their own show? If you don't like it, START YOUR OWN GOD-DAMNED SHOW, and then we can all call and bitch to you how you can't find any theist callers.ReplyDelete
Russel, I'm starting to wonder if "Charlie the Atheist Homophobe" wasn't part of Mark's cabal. That was his M.O. as well. He called expecting Matt to respond to his questions a certain way, and when Matt didn't conform to his script, he became totally unglued and incoherent. I hope I'm wrong. The idea of other atheists like Mark out there gives me the willies. We don't need an atheist Dennis Markuze.ReplyDelete
"How you do it is not our concern. This will be our last communication with you."ReplyDelete
Oh for the love of Jebus! Mark probably thinks emergency meetings are being organized as we speak to figure out how to deal with this 'threat'. I say take atheist-only calls as "punishment" for a show or two and anytime Mark is caught...or SUSPECTED of calling in, do another few atheist-only shows.
I'm pretty sure there have been TAE fans that have issued challenges for theists to call in by posting on theistic message boards and facebook groups. Why can't he do that if he wants theists to call in? Why should the hosts or crew ALREADY volunteer so much of their time, be responsible for yet another task?
It is definitely time to cut off the attention. All praise be to the ban code!ReplyDelete
I wonder if Mark thinks 75% unfunny poes is good enough. Because if getting more theist callers is his real goal, he's not exactly helping to remedy it by eating up airtime. The last caller, an apparently geunine theist, got only one minute of airtime thanks in part to Mark.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9/13/2011 3:19 PM
Charlie has a similar MO, but he argues the same crap on other atheist forums. So, he's just an idiot who likes to use other people's formats to grandstand his stupid, but seemingly sincere, ideas. "Ask An Atheist" told me they had trouble with Charlie calling in incessantly as well, and said he had a Youtube channel that didn't allow comments. My thought was, if you have a forum and won't let others argue w/you there--then don't expect to come hijack our forum for your personal, constant use. Maybe if you would allow commentary from YOUR own audience, you wouldn't need to come and try to monopolize on other peoples'.ReplyDelete
I don't know how many times over the years Matt and others have repeated that if you are a atheist trying to play as an theist that they don't want your call because there are plenty of theist that they want to get through. Every time that Mark/Christ called in he was stopping the very people that he says the show needs.ReplyDelete
With more than 700 shows under their belt the ACA has a pretty good idea of how to conduct their shows.
I do have some worries about the technical aspect but that is because I come from a professional television and radio background.
Anyway, If Chris wants to do this he can make his own show and I am sure if done in a civil mannor that the ACA would even mention it onthe air to let people see what he has to say.
But I would love to call in but I have nothing to add. Yes Tracie, Russell and the gang, your are doing great keep it up. Well I have told them that in person when I have seen them. SO deed is done.
If I ever convert back to a theist I will be sure to call in and be honest about it too. But I don't need to call in and pretend I am a adherent to a theology that I don't ascribe too.
And nether does anyone else.
"this makes me think that this guy is an atheist, and he just wants to improve the show"ReplyDelete
This makes me think of the old adage "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." The religious reference not withstanding, the intent, in my opinion, is valid.
I find it profoundly ironic that his actions actively contradicted his supposed goal. Every time he called as an atheist masquerading as a theist he was potentially taking time away from real theists. It's astonishing that a person can be so stubborn and short-sighted that they can't realize how counter-productive their actions really are.
All of this, of course, is going on his stated goal, which, considering his less than exemplary honesty, is still under question.
In any case, I can't find even a modicum of respect for Mark-if-that's-your-real-name. Unless of course he turns out to have a mental disorder, in which case he has my sympathy. If not, then his flagrant disregard for the truth, and astonishing arrogance is worthy of only contempt.
I personally don't think Mark is an atheist. I can't imagine an atheist doing what he's done, as it's an entirely pointless exercise.ReplyDelete
Most atheists aren't 'evangelical' in their rejection of others beliefs; if questioned we'll state our case, but generally we don't go looking for a fight. However, people like Thunderf00t, AronRa, Pat Condell and The Thinking Atheist do make the effort to proselytise against religious dogma.
The point I'm trying to make (rather badly) is that if HE, Mark, was an atheist, it would be natural for him to be a loud noise against theism, rather than pretend to be with it.
I think the tipping point came a few months ago, when he was talking after the show to Matt and Jen; he'd backed himself into a corner and Matt with his clear logic, kept him up against the ropes. He realised that people decide what is good or bad and not a god.
A couple of weeks after that he reappeared in one of his persona's. I THINK he was preached to by his theist peers and his dogmatic beliefs had been reinforced. However, after his near conversion to an atheist, he's too ashamed to call in again as 'Mark' and creates these characters to shield his 'shame'.
Now that he's been truly found out, rather than confess his doubts as a theist, he creates this fantasy where he was an atheist all along.
That's my hypothesis, based on my own observations; I do not say it as statement of fact.
Most atheists aren't 'evangelical' in their rejection of others beliefs; if questioned we'll state our case, but generally we don't go looking for a fight. However, people like Thunderf00t, AronRa, Pat Condell and The Thinking Atheist do make the effort to proselytise against religious dogma.ReplyDelete
Careful, Phill... you're skirting the "No true atheist" fallacy.
Well, I suppose if we want more theists to call in (or really anyone you would like to hear on the show), we could always put on a campaign, hand out fliers at churches and such. If we could get one of the big tv preachers to mention the show I bet we could get some good callers in.ReplyDelete
cant see "Mark's" comments cause hes banned. >:(ReplyDelete
Right-click and view source if you must.ReplyDelete
Remember, everyone, being crazy doesn't necessarily say anything about your theological standpoint, one way or the other.ReplyDelete
That said, I agree with Phill. I doubt this guy is an atheist. I doubt he has any well-defined position at all. So far, he hasn't demonstrated the intellectual capacity to hold a position.
I think he's just another crazy-ass internet troll. A broken human being on the waste-pile of society. Sad, but utterly trivial.
Right-click and view source if you must.ReplyDelete
Thanks for the tip, it's hilarious. I especially like the part where he says "This will be our last communication with you" and then proceeds to post two more comments.
I mean, it's like he's not even trying. Ten bucks says he'll try to call in next Sunday.
Russell, I know your comment is 'tongue-in-cheek' but after I mentioned my suspicions about Mark in the the AE youtube channel, Jen accussed me of being like a theist, making claims without evidence.ReplyDelete
It's just my opinion, put out there for discussion, I'm not asserting a fact.
Don't you realise that sometimes 'you atheists' (as the religious call you) sometimes appear just as dogmatic as theists are?.
The 'logical fallacy' comeback is akin to theists quoting scripture; put out to end discussion, not encourage it.
Kudos to you, Russell, for giving him the benefit of the doubt long after others would have stopped. I think that's a commendable attitude.ReplyDelete
"Don't you realise that sometimes 'you atheists' (as the religious call you) sometimes appear just as dogmatic as theists are?. "ReplyDelete
Appear dogmatic or are dogmatic? And appear dogmatic to who? People who don't understand what dogma is?
"The 'logical fallacy' comeback is akin to theists quoting scripture; put out to end discussion, not encourage it."
Nope, discussion can continue, just not with anything that is derived from the fallacy. Fallacies, when recognized, should end that line of reasoning. Full stop.
@mistergone: You've meaningfully contributed to my day, had a nice laugh, Thank You!ReplyDelete
Appear dogmatic or are dogmatic? And appear dogmatic to who? People who don't understand what dogma is?"ReplyDelete
I said 'appear' and put 'the religious' in brackets to indicate what I meant.
Some religious people, view some atheists in much the same way we atheists view them.
They are unable to use common sense and are quick to quote scripture or make accusations of 'lack of evidence' or any number of logical fallacies in an attempt to shut down the person they are talking to.
In questioning the authenticity of 'Mark' I was not using any falacious arguement, just offering my opinion based on what my own ears heard and how my brain is able to decode and remember patterns of speech (I assume that's evolutionary). No extraordinary claim, just my stated opinion.
After a bottle of chenin blanc and a couple of stellas I seem to be in the position where I'm arguing with some of my heroes. I was only trying to make a point (rather cack handedly it seems).
It's bizarre, that after listening to and watching every non-prophets and AE show made, my first contact with my 'idols' is a point of contention.
Captain Kirk expressed a similar sentiment about meeting one's 'god' as disappointing.
I'm kidding of course. Much respect to you guys. from a real native of England.
Best wishes and good luck with the wedding Matt.
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
What you said. Thank you.
(except #5...freak. J/k)
@Kazim: Careful, Phill... you're skirting the "No true atheist" fallacy.ReplyDelete
Agreed, though I also think that Mark/CLF isn't an atheist, largely because I don't know why he would keep harping to us about Chris Langan's proof of God and how we're afraid of it if he were. I mean, I suppose he could, but it seems a strange affectation for an atheist troll.
I've not been one of the "that guy sounds like Mark!" people from previous threads or anything, and haven't generally bought into the Mark conspiracy theory. That said, I could often see where people heard the similarity in the voice. This time, when it definitely was Mark, I didn't think it sounded like him at all. In fact, it sounded more like Charlie to me.
I guess it goes to show how fallible human ears listening to a transmitted-then-recorded voice might be--and it's why I trust the hosts to make the distinction better than I can.
You know what the worst thing about Mark taking up at least a third of the show because he wants to have more angry theists? It's the fact that by taking up a third of the show or more he actually ends up taking time away from actual theists who call the show. Wasn't there a theist at the end of this last show that had to have his discussion cut to a matter of a couple minutes due to the show being out of time?ReplyDelete
I knew who this was the moment he started talking. It's nice to finally have confirmation that I was correct each previous time I detected his voice on the show. Whoever "he" is because we still really don't know. I'm just curious if anyone else detected a hint of Canadian to his voice as I did each and every time he called in? In each call he uses the word "about" listen to him say that and see if you sense a north of the border accent in there. Not that it matters one bit I'm just curious.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9/13/2011 9:22 PM
I never really minded him. Since I couldn't really tell his voice apart from any other caller my 'Experience' listening to the show wasn't lessened. When he was called out by Matt it was mildly entertaining. Just like all trolls I'm sure he'll fade away.... eventually....ReplyDelete
I think he's likely an atheist because although he has called in to defend Christianity, at one point, he had his faith shaken (or at least pretended to do these things). An atheist would be able to "play these parts", but I remember thinking (even before the Mark/poe theory started) that his faith shaking was "quick". In just a few short calls, for him to make that kind of "progress" seemed unusual. Maybe the reason he seemed to waiver so easily is that Matt was already preaching to the choir.ReplyDelete
Also, why would a theist want more hostile theist calls? I think its usually the atheists that want to see the hosts take down a theist. Couldn't he just provide those calls himself if he is, in fact a theist? Why would he be arguing for others to be doing what he is doing? In fact, if he's a theist, can he truly be considered a POE since his defending theism is genuine?
I don't know, maybe its just past my bedtime, but it makes no sense to me how he could be a theist.
If "Mark" wants to control who the show devotes its attention to, he needs to get his own show. What an arrogant thing to demand.ReplyDelete
I agree with jklein about the Candadian tinge to his voice. I also noticed the way he says 'about'ReplyDelete
Not that it matters of course.
I don't think there's any way to determine what this shmoe's real intentions are, or what he's thinking. Everyone keeps talking as if his actions will make sense if they can just figure it out. It's time to stop assuming the guy is in any way sane or rational. I see no evidence that he consistently knows his own position, so how could we possibly determine it?ReplyDelete
It's amazing....ReplyDelete
Whoever this "Mark" guy is, and if he has friends or not, they're utterly unethical.
Trying to hijack a show, which doesn't belong to them in any way whatsoever, simply to make some sort of insane demand that the show get more Theist callers when the show has literally no control over who calls in or doesn't.
Not only is it an insane thing to do, it's aslo a fucking moronic thing to do. He's an idiot. He's also a bloody coward who should be utterly shamed for what he's done. I have absolutely no pity for a person who holds other people's hard work as hostage. It's completely fucking disgusting and low.
Hey guys. Why don't you take no theistic callers next show?ReplyDelete
Have you thought of taking emails/phone messages before the show, then have pre-selected people use a code for the call screeners?ReplyDelete
It would keep topics relevant and give you time to prepare as a bonus. On the other hand, spontaneous discussion is interesting as well.
Another shout out in support of mistergone's comments. The theist callers can be entertaining at first, but quickly become annoyingly repetitive.ReplyDelete
You know, Mark / Whatever, you'd probably have more success (and more fun) by prank calling a theist show and demanding they tell their flock to call into the Atheist Experience.ReplyDelete
Fact is, the AE show staff couldn't comply with your demands if they wanted to. Actually they probably do want to - well up to the point where you demanded it.
Think about it.
The worldwide underground success of AE is probably it's own undoing. People like Mark (who crave attention) see it as an easy vehicle to get into the limelight. Imho, the show was better when you were not streaming, and taking more local calls from the bible belt. I know it would be now be impossible to recreate shows like those of yesteryear, but I hope you give serious consideration to "tweaking" the format, so it takes into consideration the new reality. Is it possible to have theists sit in on the show and have a few of the abundant atheists who watch call in questions? Not only Christian guests, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc.ReplyDelete
I completely disagree with people who find common theistic arguments boring. At least in as much as I understand the complaint. Of course there is probably not a new argument for god to be found. But this is the only venue I have been able to find that has people consistently discussing these same failed arguments in a live dialog. It's not that I expect something new when it comes down to the brass tacks, but I enjoy the process of discussion and how people deal with these basic arguments being challneged.ReplyDelete
I have at least 2 dozen atheist outlets of slightly different varieties bookmarked. The thing that has always made this program unique amongst all the other atheist media, is the discussions with actual, on the street theists. Please know that I cherish it, and I'll happily accept whatever minor issues and annoyances in order to get some actual "water-cooler" religious discussion.
I like having a variety of call types/discussions. If it was just wall-to-wall "hostile" calls, I would get fatigued.ReplyDelete
I agree. Not only do atheist callers allow for a bit of diversity, sometimes they open the door for some important information, like local atheist groups and such.
This is still the Atheist Community of Austin and so allowing for a bit of community work may not be completely unreasonable.
That said, it's often the theist callers that are the most entertaining. Personally, I love yelling at the idiots. Religion may be the opiate of the people, but theist callers are the opiate of the atheist community and I need my fix, dammit!
- Anonymous9/14/2011 3:07 PM
[this comment has been removed by the cyber police]ReplyDelete
Is there no way to ban someone without deleting all of their posts? I would have liked to read what he said in this thread. :/ReplyDelete
aww Chris/ Mark.. does that mean our " bet" was off, well assuming that it is, it really isn't fun now that you reallly can't do anything. by default, and by result, it seems like I won, Cheers Chris/ Mark- AtoTheTheistReplyDelete
I'm with others saying that it's actually better that this took a while rather than jumping at the calls of Poe early on. "Mark" got boring but some of the others resulted in worthwhile discussion for viewers. It's not the sort of thing you want but the show is plenty robust enough to handle it, is I think the point. Making "Mark" all the more irrelevant.ReplyDelete
So no need to get twitchy because of this (not that there's any suggestion of such).
Those demands of his are the dumbest thing yet, made up long after he started doing this I'd wager. Just kinda shaking my head along with everyone else here.
You know what we need? Charlie the Schmarriage Guy again, so we can all forget about Mark and his Chris Lang stupidity. If I ever need a self-called atheist looking like an idiot, I will stick to Charlie, thank you very much.ReplyDelete
No wait I won't. Both of them suck.
- Anonymous9/14/2011 10:52 PM
What I don't understand is why was he so eager to have Matt talk to Chris, it doesn't make any sense. I didn't even know who Langan was up until reading the first post AE made about Mark/Blah, now I know he was reported to have the highest IQ in America...ReplyDelete
So what? He's smarter than Matt... ZOMG! HAHAHA...
ChrisLanganFan puts to much faith in IQ. If Langan has a theory that someone of -even 100 points- lesser IQ disagrees with, that still doesn't mean the lesser should just take the greater's word for it.
Funny. Many of the viewers, and I believe even the hosts, would like the show to be 75% theist callers as well--if not more.ReplyDelete
There's no need to be dishonest about it. Just call.
My suspicion after the second time he brought up Chris Langan under an assumed identity was that he was like that prank caller who put up his videos with AE (and other Austin public access shows) on YouTube - you know, the "we are the Mormons" kid.ReplyDelete
He is a much better prank caller than that guy though.
Said it on Sunday's blog and I'll say it again. Trolls be trollin.ReplyDelete
With such a viral youtube following, it happens that some fans call in their comment/question instead of posting it underneath the video they watch which is unfortunate because it's not really helping anybody. They just want to participate. On the plus side, the show has a viral youtube following. Just don't feed the trolls.
This shows that atheists are not immune from being MORONS. "I want more theist calls on the show, so I'll call in and take up the time they could be using." Brilliant! But wait, there's MORE! I'll THREATEN the people doing the show to do what I claim I want, even though I am a major obstacle to it actually happening, or I'll become abusive and ....ReplyDelete
I really have a hard time believing someone who thinks this irrationally is an atheist. Not that we have a corner on it, but it seems that someone this irrational would never have made the rational choices to become an atheist. I try to avoid personal insults, but if you didn't get it the first time, I'll say it again: MORON!
Think we are still being trolled by him...ReplyDelete
@Thomas F. BourqueReplyDelete
Where is my fainting couch?ReplyDelete
i acutally enjoyed his call fake or not he usually brought up arguments we as atheists hear often.ReplyDelete
now Charlie the Schmarriage Guy that guy was annoying,
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough". Albert EinsteinReplyDelete
This would look great as a motto in the show.
How do we know this "chrislanganfan" is the Mark that called in? Couldn't any 'ol person create a profile on here and claim to be him?ReplyDelete
I'm a theist and I would like to call into the show more often, but I happen to work on Sundays now and I don't really have anything to call in about.ReplyDelete
So the question is begged:ReplyDelete
If a Poe (in this context) is basically someone who is an atheist pretending to be a theist and arguing theist points in an attempt to "job" (wrestling term for deliberately lose) to the atheist, what would a theist pretending to be an atheist pretending to be a theist be? Whatever it is, that's what I suspect "Mark" is.
"I don't know if faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers" - Unknown
I don't really have anything to call in about.ReplyDelete
Well, there's always the old faithful (no pun intended): What do you believe and why?
And if you can't call in, then feel free to explain here.
I already told them what I believe in. They didn't ask me why at the time though.ReplyDelete
Anna, I vaguely remember that you called. I think if I remember, you believe in a polytheistic religion? Can you remind me what its called? Do you remember when you called in so I can find the episode and refresh my memory?ReplyDelete
3/20/2011, about the half hour mark.ReplyDelete
My religion is called Fyrnsidu.
Hah! I was just googling for a bit of background, found fyrnsidu.org, scrolled down the main page and who do I see? :)ReplyDelete
Anyway, I found this on the FAQ page relating to epistemology:
Fyrnsidu embraces the practice of mysticism which is to say, the direct experience of the divine or sublime through non-ordinary states of perception...
it is the official position of the Sácerdhád that the truth claims of any religion, with regard to its doctrines or teachings concerning divinity, can only be justified within the context of a religious tradition...
Therefore, the goal of epistemology within the tradition of Fyrnsidu cannot be to prove the truth of our religious doctrines
First, do you agree with this?
If yes, can you justify this as a valid position?
My problem here is that this is just a complete surrender; a total abandonment of the project of finding truth. It basically amounts to introducing a premise that says that you're right.
Sure, you can just assume that you're right, but someone else with a contradictory position can, with equal validity, just assume that they're right.
Ergo, this method does not allow us to reliably identify truth.
And if you don't agree, then please describe how you think your beliefs can be examined and validated.
Hey guysReplyDelete
So, you banned him from the blog, that's fine, he's a dick and all, but why did you erase his posts? I'm just now coming to this, and would've liked to be able to follow the conversation.
Can you put them back?
You can view the comments raw by using the "view Source" option in your browser. Use the find feature to go to his comments. Then you can read them.ReplyDelete
I've done it myself, though, and trust me, you haven't missed much.
He was a pranker?? After all of these years and all of these calls??? For crying out loud! There was a time when it sounded like you were finally getting him to think, getting him to question, and it seemed like reason was finally getting to him. It actually felt like a little bit of interesting drama. Then after a bit of silence, he came back more hostile than before, and it turns out it was all fake? What a jerk.ReplyDelete
Seriously, a person who poses those arguments dishonestly or as a joke is much worse than a person who sincerely believes them. Shame on you, Mark. What a disappointment.
To the AE crew, you guys deserve tons of credit for putting up with him the way you did when you thought he was sincere on the show, and for reaching out to him on the blog like this. And for that matter, for cutting him off now that his nonsense has been exposed.
I was one that Russell was rude to awhile back when I said that Bob was Mark. It is good of him to be big enough to admit he was wrong and apologize. I admit, it was so obvious that Bob was Mark and the way Russell was denying it had me thinking that Mark and all his characters were a plant because they know we like theist callers... and I'm not a conspiracy theorist! I'm very glad that I was wrong.ReplyDelete
What I don't get is that if he wants his plan to succeed, he would need to stop calling and taking up time that could be a real theist. Counter-intuitive. It's also some pretty good evidence, that he gets on each time, that you guys put the theists on the hotline whenever you can. They have to call, and have something at least entertaining to say.ReplyDelete
Most blogs log the IP address of the poster so unless they were going through proxies to hide their real IP address then it should be clear if the poster is the same person.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous10/02/2011 5:45 PM
[This one too.]ReplyDelete
PLEASE NOTE: The Atheist Experience has moved to a new location, and this blog is now closed to comments. To participate in future discussions, please visit http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/axp.
This blog encourages believers who disagree with us to comment. However, anonymous comments are disallowed to weed out cowardly flamers who hide behind anonymity. Commenters will only be banned when they've demonstrated they're nothing more than trolls whose behavior is intentionally offensive to the blog's readership.
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subset: commoncrawl


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Thursday 13 March 2014
Reasons to be Cheerful Week 11 #R2BC
44 comments:
How lovely that you get to see friends like that. I think facebook is great for keeping in touch xReplyDelete
- Susanne Remic13 March 2014 at 15:12
Wow! This looks fantastic! Mine would love this- especially the triops... whatever they are! Growing things sounds intriguing though! :DReplyDelete
- Kate Holmes13 March 2014 at 15:58
Lovely reaons as ever - you always seem to have life very sussed to me. Amazing to meet those online friends. Going to look into that bag challenge - may be just what I need. Have a gorgeous week @kateonthiniceReplyDelete
Fab reasons, how great that you met up with your group and that decluttering challenge sounds right up my street!ReplyDelete
it has its positive side!ReplyDelete
I wish ;-) bag thing is way to goReplyDelete
- Kate Fever13 March 2014 at 16:54
This looks amazing - both my older 2 would enjoy this. Thanks for linking up with #TriedTestedReplyDelete
Ohh that 40 day challenge is a good one. Mich xReplyDelete
- Colette Burgess14 March 2014 at 11:01
What a great day out! Think I'd be avoiding the bugs though!ReplyDelete
- Colette Burgess14 March 2014 at 11:02
That 40 bag challenge sounds fab!ReplyDelete
- ClearlyBex14 March 2014 at 12:47
Looks like a great place to visit. Although like Colette i'd be petrified of the bugs section - I once owned a stick insect and I couldn't hold one again. *shudders*ReplyDelete
- The explorer's mum!14 March 2014 at 13:34
This looks like an amazing place to visit. How fantastic that you can feel so close to the snow leopards.ReplyDelete
- The explorer's mum!14 March 2014 at 13:35
I love the sounds of the 40 bags in 40 days challenge! I might join in (belatedly) with that one!ReplyDelete
- Grumpyishmum14 March 2014 at 17:07
Wow Becky that looks fantastic! My husband and children would really enjoy the snow leopard enclosure! I think we'll have to go there this summer.ReplyDelete
4 bags to charity today felt good :-)ReplyDelete
it feels goodReplyDelete
its never too late!ReplyDelete
- A Girl I know14 March 2014 at 18:34
I love day trips like this. Its the kind of thing you can enjoy no matter what age you are! : )ReplyDelete
- A Girl I know14 March 2014 at 18:37
I really need to join the 40 bags challenge! I'm a terrible hoarder. Is there a stipulation on what size bags they have to be? Can they be sandwich bags, haha.ReplyDelete
- Grumpyishmum14 March 2014 at 19:31
I'm going to join in with #R2BC more often - I keep saying that but I keep forgetting. Must try harder!ReplyDelete
- Susanne Remic14 March 2014 at 19:57
I joined an ivillage group when I was having Luka in 2009 and those ladies are still wonderful friends. One of them joined me when I jumped from the plane for Matilda Mae x xReplyDelete
- MamaUndone14 March 2014 at 19:59
Loving the paws on the roof! Looks like a fab day out, the perfect mix of educational and fun. Great pictures :-)ReplyDelete
Tiaras & Prozac
- MidlifeSinglemum14 March 2014 at 21:18
Great reasons. I envy you living close to family. Decluttering is also a way of making your house bigger. When I did it seriously last summer, I managed to get rid of two old, cheap and nasty bookcases and an old desk. We now have space where they used to be. And who couldn't be cheerful when spring appears at last. Have a wonderful week. xxxReplyDelete
I love the idea of 40 bags in 40 days. I'm trying to de-clutter our house too, we have so much stuff it's ridiculous! xReplyDelete
- Let's Talk Mommy15 March 2014 at 13:02
What an awesome idea 40 bags challenge. I could so do that! Although I get going crazy once I start bagging stuff and going through stuff I could do the 40 bags in one day. It just doesn't end. I have four bags yesterday just of baby stuff I don't need for charity. Declutter is the best feeling in the world.ReplyDelete
- Coombe Mill (Fiona)15 March 2014 at 15:49
What a fab zoo with so many fascinating inhabitants to watch, although I'm not too fond of the cockroaches. The photos are great especially of the beautiful snow leopards. Thanks for linking up and sharing your day with Country Kids.ReplyDelete
- Misplaced_Brit15 March 2014 at 19:34
wow wow wow! Looks like you had a lovely time, and seriously impressed with holding all those animals! The leaf ants make me feel itchy just looking at your pic!!ReplyDelete
I only like holding mammals!ReplyDelete
it was a great experienceReplyDelete
its well worth the tripReplyDelete
thank you :-)ReplyDelete
its a fab little zooReplyDelete
I didn't fancy them either! thanks for hostingReplyDelete
my 10 yo not me!ReplyDelete
It all counts!ReplyDelete
You have all week to do it!ReplyDelete
It was a fab communityReplyDelete
Helping me :-)ReplyDelete
Need to find my space ;-)ReplyDelete
We do seem to collect stuff!ReplyDelete
It's a positivity thingReplyDelete


text:
Published November 1932 Model wearing a Gossard brocade girdle and flesh net brassiere Photo licensed from the Cond? Nast Collection, home of The New Yorker, Vogue, Vanity Fair and other popular brands. Find this and other artwork at the Cond? Nast Collection.
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Perennials assortment Meynell Langley Gardens
At Meynell Langley Gardens in Ashbourne you'll find the best perennials in Derbyshire. Perennials bring a garden to life with movement, colour and scent: an ever-changing tapestry of beauty which marks the passing of the seasons and gives you something new to look at each time you go outside.
Technically a perennial is simply a plant which comes back every year. They don't have woody stems, like a shrub or tree: herbaceous perennials die right down, while evergreens like hellebores and bergenias keep a clump of leaves right through winter. Because they're seasonal you can really ring the changes if you choose carefully, giving your garden colour and interest all year round with perenials from Meynell Langley Gardens.
Perennial performers from Meynell Langley Gardens
Perennials are the mainstay of the plant benches at Meynell Langley Gardens here in Ashbourne and they search far and wide for top performers, including the best of the on-trend designer plants and old traditional favourites.
Long-flowering perennials never go out of fashion and offer fantastic value, often flowering their socks off for months on end. Every gardener's wish list should include desirable plants like ´Salvia 'Caradonna', with its summer-long cobalt-blue flower spikes, perennial wallflower Erysimum 'Bowles' Mauve', perfect for cottage gardens, or dainty Geranium 'Rozanne', recently voted RHS Plant of the Centenary and always in flower from June to October.
Buy perennials for every season at Meynell Langley Gardens
Start your perennial display with spring beauties like pulmonarias, primulas, dainty-flowered Epimedium (great for shady corners) and the sweetly nodding flowers of aquilegias.
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And it doesn't stop there: even in winter there are perennial beauties like the broad, deep purple leaves of Bergenia (topped with lipstick-pink flowers in spring) and demurely nodding hellebore flowers.
Perennial design advice at Meynell Langley Gardens
All the perennials you'll find at Meynell Langley Gardens in Ashbourne are grown with care to reach a good, robust size before sale so they'll slot straight into your garden and start growing right away.
The knowledgeable staff can advise you on the right combination of perennials for you, whether you're extending up your year-round interest, redesigning a border or hunting for the right plant for a tricky spot. Whatever your gardening conundrum, perennials have the answer – so come on down to Meynell Langley Gardens for the best perennials!


text:
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text:
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also happen as every run is influenced by the predominant colors on the run so
if you reorder a card a second time is it possible for the shades to vary from
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Can Color Variance Be Eliminated
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>> All efforts are made to cut everything exact but cuts can and will vary. Cuts
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DESIGN TIP - If you are doing your own
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>> If you have purchased graphic art services and would like to receive a FREE
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>> Remember that your prospects only care about
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text:
Top picks this week
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text:
Neckline: Jewel
Waist: Natural
Style:Fashion , Elegant
Hemline/Train:Sweep Train
Sleeve Length:Sleeveless
Back Details:Backless
Shown Color:Blue
Occasion:Prom , Evening
Season:Spring , Summer , Fall
If the color box is not in your requirement, please check the color chart When you choose color name, please leave us a message that which color that you want.
Please note that all of the dresses are tailored from scratch including the standard sized dresses.How to
When you choose "Customer size", please leave us a message about your bust, waist, hips, hollow to floor with bare foot, extra heels and other necessary measurements.
bust______ cm/inch
hollow to floor with bare foot:_______cm/inch
extra heels:_______cm/inch
shoulder to shoulder :_______cm/inch (measured from back of shoulder)
shoulder to bust :_______cm/inch (measured from middle shoulder to nipple)
shoulder to waist :_______cm/inch (measured from middle of shoulder to natural waist)
nipple to nipple:_______cm/inch
Sleeve length:__________cm/inch
Returns Policy
Your satisfaction is very important to us. After your package arrives, we recommend that you check and make sure the dress meets your ordering requirements. Try on your clothes as soon as possible without removing labels, changing or washing clothes. If you are returning or replacing clothing or accessories, make sure they are in their original condition - not worn, unwashed, unaltered, undamaged, clean, lint-free, with a full label.
The item is defective, damaged or mishandled You are eligible for a refund of the full purchase price and shipping costs for defective, damaged or mishandled items. If you believe that the item was damaged during shipment, you must first obtain a "Certificate of Damage" document from the shipping carrier.
Size or assembly problem Since all of our dresses are hand-stitched, the finished dresses may differ by about one (1) inch in either direction of the specified size. To ensure that your dress is still perfect for you, our tailors add extra fabric to all the stitched garments when sewing, making it easy to make smaller size modifications.
The dress is not the size you ordered If your dress size differs by more than an inch from your order size, we recommend that you find a local tailor to adjust and we will be happy to compensate you for 100% of the price of the product in the ruling cost. If you choose this option, please remember to ask the tailor to request a receipt, as a copy of the receipt must be provided when requesting a refund.
The dress is the size you ordered, but it is not suitable Dresses that do not fit but meet the specifications you ordered cannot be returned or replaced. Since our dresses are made from other fabrics at the seams, you can adjust them yourself at your own expense. Please note: If your order size is too different from the final size requirement, you may not be able to adjust the size.
Original shipping is non-refundable.
If there are quality problems, we also hold the right to refuse any unreasonable returns, such as wrong size you gave us, but we offer free alternation.
Please show us photos of error firstly, there are 3 ways to solve it.
1, Send dress back to get full payment back.
2, get 50% discount to keep it.
3, We will remake one and send it as soon as possible, the first dress no need to send back.
Shipping PolicyRush order: within within 20 days or even earlier, shipping cost is $30.00 extra more.
Normal time: Within 30 days (From May to Dec)
Around 30-35 days (From Jan to April), it's busy season, so produce time will be a little long.


text:
|Location Map
|Street View
|Walk Score
LOT 29 Waters Edge DR (MLS #787171) is a lot/land listing located in Penhook, VA. This lot/land listing is on a lot of 21,780 sqft (or 0.50 acres) and is 2023 years old. This property was listed on 11/16/2022 and has been priced for sale at $129,500.
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Listing Last updated . Some properties which appear for sale on this web site may subsequently have sold or may no longer be available. Walk Score map and data provided by Walk Score. Google map provided by Google. Bing map provided by Microsoft Corporation.
All information provided is deemed reliable but is not guaranteed and should be independently verified.
Listing information courtesy of: Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Smith Mountain Lake Real Estate
Call: 540-525-4510 800-858-4653
© 2023 Real Estate Web Solutions, LLC. All rights reserved. realOMS Login


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Fantastic Four #291 95¢ Variant Value
The 2022 CPV Price Guide for Canadian Price Variants (Type 1A)
by Bill Alexander, Tim Bildhauser, Paul Clairmont, Jay Halstead, Jon McClure, Benjamin Nobel, Conan Saunders, Doug Sulipa, and Angelo Virone
table of contents
all titles
, other
price guide editions
Near Mint -
Very Fine / Near Mint
Very Fine
Very Good
Fantastic Four #291 95¢ Cover Price Variant, Marvel, 6/1986, Published in the USA
Find Fantastic Four #291 CPVs on eBay »
Fantastic Four #291 95¢ Canadian Price Variant Issue Notes:
Conan notes: Example variant sales at
: a raw 4.0 on 6/21/2021 for $3, a raw 6.0 on 9/21/2020 for $7
Doug notes: Action #1 cover swipe
CGC label note: Nick Fury appearance. Action Comics #1 cover homage. 95¢ cover price.
« #290
#292 »
This page:
Fantastic Four #291 value
(95¢ Price Variant)
« Back to
Fantastic Four Comics, Full Price Guide Page
Fantastic Four #291 Comic Book FAQ
What is the value of Fantastic Four #291?
I have a copy of Fantastic Four #291 and I want to know what this comic book is worth in different grades as a first printing?
Accepted answer:
The answer depends on the type that you own. For Fantastic Four #291, Marvel published a direct edition type (exceptionally well preserved by collectors as direct edition comics were the type sold in comic shops), and two newsstand types which were sold to the general public on newsstands (a regular cover price version and the 95¢ price variant). If you own a price variant, lucky you, it is worth $14 in 9.2 (Near Mint Minus).
Suggested answer:
Check whether the cover of your copy of Fantastic Four #291 has a graphical logo or a bar code box. If it has a graphical logo, sorry to break it to you but you own a commonplace direct edition copy which is worth about $4.
Suggested answer:
If your copy of Fantastic Four #291 has a bar code box on the cover, then you've got a newsstand copy! Is it the more-rare price variant? Now for the moment of excitement: is the cover price of your newsstand copy 95¢? If so, congratulations, you own the cover price variant!!
What is Fantastic Four #291 worth in VF/NM condition?
Accepted answer:
The direct edition (logo on cover) is worth about $4 in VF/NM whereas the 95¢ newsstand variants are worth $12.
Why are the Fantastic Four #291 newsstand cover price variants worth so much more than the direct edition copies?
Accepted answer:
As collectibles, direct edition copies are already at a disadvantage compared to newsstand copies in the highest grades, because direct editions were extraordinarily well preserved as the distinct type sold in specialty comic shops. The comic shop owners ordered direct edition copies of Fantastic Four #291 at a discount to cover price, but on a non-returnable basis (the graphical logo was to tell non-returnable copies apart from their returnable newsstand counterparts). When their orders arrived, the comic shop staff handled the books with extreme care to preserve their condition, and then the comic book collectors who shopped there typically preserved their purchases in plastic bags with backing boards. By contrast, newsstand copies were treated as reading material with no staff training to handle the books with any semblance of care, and they were then sold to the general public; unsold copies were returned for credit and typically pulped/recycled forward. Only those newsstand copies of Fantastic Four #291 that were taken home and preserved by collectors would survive today in the highest grades. Among surviving newsstand copies of Fantastic Four #291, the market area that received the 95¢ cover price newsstand copies was a restricted area representing less than 10% the population of the total North American newsstand market. That's because the destination market for 95¢ copies of Fantastic Four #291 was Canadian newsstands — hence the name Canadian Price Variant as a short-hand for 95¢ Price Variant. All of this adds up to a market value for the 95¢ variant approximately 200% higher than the direct edition in Very Fine / Near Mint (9.0) condition, as of our 2022 CPV Price Guide Edition.
In VF condition, how much is Fantastic Four #291 worth?
Accepted answer:
The direct edition version of Fantastic Four #291 is worth about $3 in Very Fine (8.0) whereas the 95¢ newsstand variants are worth $10.
What is the value of Fantastic Four #291 in Fine condition?
Accepted answer:
In FN (6.0) shape, the direct edition version of Fantastic Four #291 is worth about $2 whereas the 95¢ newsstand variants are worth $7.
What is the approximate Fantastic Four #291 value in very good condition?
Accepted answer:
Down in VG (4.0) Very Good condition, the direct edition version of Fantastic Four #291 is worth about $1 whereas the 95¢ newsstand variants are worth $5.
What is the Fantastic Four #291 price guide value in good condition?
Accepted answer:
The price guide value way down in GD (2.0) Good condition for Fantastic Four #291 is about $1 for the direct edition version whereas the 95¢ newsstand variants are worth $2.
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is presented on a best-efforts basis, but none of the included information is guaranteed to be free of error and therefore you should use this guide only as one tool among your comics research tool-belt, and you should verify information with other sources before acting. Please read the full
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