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Finally, a modern ruleset for 4e!
I liked d20 Modern well enough, I really did. It introduced certain elements like Damage Threshold (making guns very scary things even when the PCs had buckets of HP), heroes based directly off of a particular stat, and easy multiclassing that gelled well.
Now we have Dias Ex Machina's offering, making the D&D 4th Edition game system viable with firearms, grenades, even up to futuristic robots, nanomachines and laser/plasma weapons. You choose from a Ladder which helps offset the need for enchanted gear by using enhancement bonuses granted every few levels, then you select a Class. There's quite a few to choose from, and while some Ladder/Class combinations are more optimal when paired together, there's really no useless selection to make (with the understanding you may have to strain your attributes a bit).
The system can do anything from Civil War to Wild West to Space Opera. It's not a standalone, instead a supplement to the WotC 4e books. Well worth the price of admission, I give this one 5 stars.
It seems I deleted my previous review trying to edit it ... (is what happens when the site doesn't have all the buttons for other languages) ... so I'll put a short version of it.
If you wan't a d20 Modern version of D&D 4e ... this is it.
Have a nice day.
You need more? ... ooooookey ....
You'll have classes, ladders (a typical D&D class has been divided in two, class and ladder, and you combine them as you please), new skills, feats, equipment, monsters and new rules involving firearms and such. I suppose clases and ladders could have even more powers and such ... but I suppose this would be more expansion related or maybe web features.
Ultramodern 4 is a sci-fi rpg and you are going to need Dungeons and Dragons 4 editions rulebook. Now, this book was written before Essentials in mind, so just remember that. Also, this book is a mixture of D20modern and D20future.
The ladder system is a much more robust version of WoTC's themes. The seven ladders look like classes and give option all the way to level 29. The ladders and class can almost seem like an easier version of multi-classing. Also, the ladders are a source of enhancement bonus.
You don't have as many powers for classes in this game compare to 4th edition, but the ladders make up for it. There are eleven classes, and along with the ladders you can still multi-class like in DnD 4th edition. There is a lot of optimization for your character.
The class of the specialist I felt that many of the powers could have been gear. He is the combat medic, and the powers are named after drugs, but that is easy to house rule. You can always use the powers, but less potency than the Specialist.
I really liked the way the powers were written in this book as they don't feel like the same powers. As you know DnD 4th edition was plagued with, and the powers can be pretty entertaining as hell.
Now this game does not have rules for cybernetics or space travel, but what it does have will keep you busy for a while. It has different levels of range weapons and armor which can be collection of rifles to laser and tactical vest to power armor. I know the upcoming book Neurospasta is going to have cyber rules, so be on the lookout. Most of the equipment rules have to deal with weapons and armor. Also there is a tech level, so you can decide how far into the future you want this.
One of the bad things I have to say is the PDF book marks a name just Ultramodern4 chapter one, Ultramodern4 chapter two, and so on. The contents pages have no links to them either. For these omissions, I give 4 out of five stars.
I really can't wait to get a game together for this game and really put this system through its paces. I do go a little be more in depth about it on my YouTube channel.
(This review was originally published on Roleplayer's Chronicle - http://roleplayerschronicle.com/?p=21866)
Few independent publishers handle 4e material, let alone provide truly innovative concepts and products stretching the mechanics to their limit like Dias Ex Machina. Their highly successful Amethyst setting was just the tip of the iceberg, it seems, and they've taken the applications of the core rules found in the Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition RPG away from the fantasy genre to create an open-ended modern/sci-fi alternative without completing revising the game. In other words, it's GSL compatible.
Right off the bat, I have to warn those experienced players and GMs if you think you've seen the full potential of these rules, you are sadly mistaken. One of the biggest issues for DEM and some of the concepts brought forth in Amethyst was the comparison to D&D's style of play and handling of the delicate balancing act the 4e mechanics presented. For example, DEM introduced attack powers without damage and received a fair bit of flack online for it. The biggest issue they've had to deal with is working alongside D&D. With Ultramodern4, they have simultaneously strayed away from the comparison while running alongside its core foundation. There are no new character generation, experience, or class format rules, just new components building on the essential foundation of 4e. Frankly, what Ultramodern4 has done here puts D&D to shame.
At 244 pages in PDF (a POD copy should be available shortly and was not prepped at the time of this review), there's a lot of material to go through with the goal of allowing GMs to create their own modern or futuristic setting. This book is not a setting nor does it lean towards one genre or another other than step far back from fantasy. Rather than offer a chapter-by-chapter breakdown of the book, it's better to provide a point-form analysis of the provisions offered in Ultramodern4.
Ladders & Classes
Characters are created using 11 new classes (Faceman, Grappler, Gunslinger, Heavy, Infiltrator, Man-at-Arms, Mastermind, Sniper, Specialist, Techie, and Vanguard) plus 7 ladders (Born Leader, Juggernaut, Runner, Savant, Survivor, Veteran, and Warrior). Ladders act as your character's core personality to compliment your vocation (or class) and provide a load of options to tweak which class you choose. First of all, they offer alternate powers and additional features similar to a theme in standard D&D but with the level range of an entire class. More importantly, they provide level-based enhancement bonuses to balance off the lack of magic weapons in this game and you can choose between taking additional ladder features or more cash.
Ladders are an absolutely brilliant form of customization and allow players opportunity to adjust the classes in ways standard D&D never could. For instance, each ladder allows for an alternative primary ability in attack powers, such as the Veteran substituting Wisdom for all ranged, unarmed, and melee attacks with one-handed weapons. Each ladder can theoretically work with any of the 11 provided classes with more variety than a dozen official D&D supplements ever provided.
Paths & Destinies
There are 28 paragon paths and epic destinies, none of them attuned to any particular ladder or class to allow for more variety and customization. (For a special chuckle, there's even a Pathfinder paragon path.)
Powers & Keywords
While the core mechanics of D&D remain, there are several new keywords and terms exploiting the possibilities of modern technology. The Open range, for example, allows leaders to assist allies through radio contact rather than bursts, auras, or even light of sight. The Auto keyword relates to particular weapons firing off multiple rounds and non-damaging keywords like Tactical allow you to gain power bonuses to following attack rolls if you make a crit within your initial drop of the dice. Oh, and it actually has wall powers, something D&D never uses and it's listed in the Player's Handbook.
The powers provided in Ultramodern4 are where the game really stands out. Without the restriction of standing alongisde D&D, the game has truly stretched out the mechanics' wings and made playing 4e dangerous and risky upon my initial read-through. While I've yet to play, my personal feeling is eagerness (though I can just imagine the hesitation others may feel towards such alterations, but this game is not intended for them). The key to understanding this game is to leave your preconceptions at the door – this is not D&D and never tries to be D&D.
Basic attacks take on a larger role in this game than standard D&D with some powers allowing for additional bonus attacks as features, minor actions, and opportunity attacks better simulating two weapon attacks better than standard D&D.
Weapon & Equipment
Each class provides a list of starting equipment and some cash for additional gear, as well as provide new weapon proficiencies appropriate to the use of firearms. These lists are vague enough to leave things open to the timeline of your particular campaign though there's likely a strong possibility your GM may choose to alter these starting lists a bit to suit the game to come.
As previously mentioned, there are no magic items or equivalents in Ultramodern4. But there are lasers, plasma rifles, and heavy machine guns capable of firing 10 rounds in one attack roll. Certain weapons are assigned a level adjustment (increasing the average level of the party and the challenge a GM should create in an encounter) and a tech level (designating the strength and devastation of a particular weapon based on currently available technology). Many weapons provide an at-will basic attack, such as the flamethrower with ongoing 4 fire damage or the glue gun's ability to restrain a target.
Rules for handling ammunition are also provided to prevent players from keeping track of hundreds of bullets, as well as rules for Armor Penetration (AP) negating the Hardness of certain inanimate objects like vehicles or brick walls.
While the application of equipment has changed for Ultramodern4, it does maintain the complexity of handling magic items and perhaps accentuates that complexity even more. In short, there's no such thing as just wearing armor or carrying a simple weapon or gear.
Rounding It Out
In addition to everything mentioned so far (and in an effort to keep this review short and effective), there are the typical provision of feats, new skills, alternate skill uses, and advanced rules for weaponry, armor, vehicles, and more. Plus the book includes pre-designed enemies and enemy traits built in the familiar style of 4e monsters ranging from levels 1 to 19 (which does leave epic characters out of the loop, but I'm suspecting that'll be temporary).
An adventuring chapter provides sample set pieces complete with full-color maps and detailed room descriptions and applications to create specific incidences using those sets and a re-presentation of Biohazzard, the zombie-infestation adventure from the original release of Amethyst adjusted to work with Ultramodern4.
This is an incredibly impressive book and it's a shame for such gold to come about during the dying days of 4e. What it accomplishes with the mechanics is far beyond many things ever attempted by standard D&D in wild and exciting ways. If anyone ever tells you it's impossible to try something different with 4e, your answer should be Ultramodern4.
Publication Quality: 8 out of 10
As with all of DEM's publications, this is a very attractive book with some great illustrations and layout. There may not be as much artwork as some of their earlier work, but what's there definitely does the trick. While I did find some minor layout errors, this can be accounted through its reflow allowing you to instantly switch to text only for easy printing. There were no bookmarks in the PDF.
Mechanics: 10 out of 10
As an experienced D&D player and GM, I can't find any flaw with the work presented here, but I can certainly expect many others to judge it unfairly. If you look at these rules at non-D&D, what you'll find is an electric awakening of what could have been had 4e not been called D&D. Honestly, if Chris Dias never gets the call to work for Wizards of the Coast, it would be a tragic failure on their part.
Desire to Play: 8 out of 10
Sign me up, that's what I have to say about this game. Hell, I want to take my D&D players (even though it's not my campaign) and get them to shift into this version in an effort to show them the true capabilities of this system.
Overall: 9 out of 10
Ultramodern4 is a magnificent accomplishment in alternative game design and I can't help but feel it is superior to D&D, even if it is required to play this game. It achieves what D&D could not because it was not held down to a particular reference point – previous versions of D&D – and capable of stretching its reach far beyond what many experienced players may have expected of these troubled mechanics. I only hope the GSL does not make this product a limited edition.
As a long time fan of Chris Diaz's work, I must say this is among the best he's done. I hope to see more books from Diaz as quickly as possible. If you want to run a Post-Apocalyptic or modern/near future game, this book is for you. He's evolved 4e into something much more usable, and if you're a follower of his work, you'll note that WotC have taken more than one idea from him.
First off I would like thank Chris Dias for finally getting this book out, its been a long wait but it's so worth it!
Ultramodern4 (UM4) is the latest supplement from Dias Ex Machina, taking the next logical step beyond it's previous Amethyst setting and bringing more generic modern rules to the table.
The biggest changes from your standard D&D or amethyst game is the new class/ladder system.
Classes are a bit lighter in weight, they have fewer powers in general but still are the "What you do" of the game. They are a bit more generic with names like: Faceman, Heavy, Mastermind, Specialist. Anyone familiar with Amethyst will probably recognize a fair share of the mechanics, the sniper uses the marksmen talent from the stalker sniper for instance.
While classes are a bit pared down from what you would be used to it's because of the Ladder mechanic. Ladders are the other side of the coin, they are "How you do it". While you might be a sniper, you could be a Juggernaut Sniper, replacing your usual reliance on DEX for powers with CON. You could be a Savant Gunslinger, using your keen intellect to take your foes down.
Overall I love the mechanic, it really opens up more themes, letting more then one type of person be locked into a class.
Paragon paths and epic destinies like most items in this book are also fairly generic, with 22 paragon paths such as: Driver, Field Sniper and Cinematic Cliche and 5 Epic destinies like: Ultimate or Respected. you should have no problem bringing your character into the higher levels with some great mechanics and flavor.
Skill and feats, some of these are revised or updated versions of Amethyst rules, notable vehicle operation and demolitions, but with expanded sections in some of the skills such as sabotage under engineer there is plenty added for any game you'll run. Also included are contacts, which can be purchased or received with feats, these characters are pulled right out of an action movie, they are the people the hero always contacts for that helpful bit of information or to find some kind of black market object or occasionally showing up as added backup.
Weapons and equipment, For me this is the real meat of the book, there are items in here for every level of tech you might want. Everything from revolvers to plasma cannons, Ballistics Armor to XH Dragon powered armor. This book has it.
Another aspect I liked about the equipment is that everything has a price and a loadout value, loadout being rules for adventurers who might be a part of an organization or other kind of group where they wouldn't necessarily buy all of their equipment. it lets you set a loadout value per adventure with modifiers depending on intelligence and a few other items and lets the characters requisition equipment. Perfect for a military game.
included in the book as well are two adventures and a great resource with its Adversaries chapter, giving you a lot of basic bad guys with great trait templates.
Overall I have to give this product a thumbs up, its quality is not only in its content but its layout as well, I personally have not had many 4e 3rd party products with the production quality that DEM puts in its products.
If I were to place one complaint, it would be that the class layout is a bit of a jumble, no clear definitions between classes, they just flow into each other. But its a minor nitpick.
If you are looking for the perfect 4e modern rules, they are right here.
Picked up U4 this morning. I've been waiting on this book for a long time and it was worth the wait. Great job DEM.


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I think it was probably assumed when Kate Walsh announced that she was getting a divorce from her husband of 15 months, Alex Young, that it would be a quick thing and really not much would be heard of it again. Really, they were married for about 5 seconds and so really, how messy could it get? […]
Entries Tagged 'Alex Young' ↓
Another Nasty Divorce
December 26th, 2008 — Alex Young, David Sutcliffe, Kate Walsh
Kate Walsh may have had Private Practices of her Own
December 21st, 2008 — Alex Young, David Sutcliffe, Kate Walsh
After it was announced just a week ago that Kate Walsh, who stars in the hit medical drama, Private Practice, and her husband, Alex Young, had called it quits on their marriage, it turns out that the reasons may be more than a simple case of a marriage that happened too fast, as we all had […]

subset: commoncrawl


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BATON ROUGE — While it's easy to focus on local projects included in the coastal master plan the Legislature passed this week, it might be more difficult to pick apart and identify policy-related themes
BATON ROUGE — While it's easy to focus on local projects included in the coastal master plan the Legislature passed this week, it might be more difficult to pick apart and identify policy-related themes.
The plan outlines 50 years worth of programming and engineering that weighs in at a staggering $50 billion. Local, state and federal money flow in and out of the complex plan, which was developed through several rounds of public hearings over the past two years.
"It provides flood protection for every coastal community," Garret Graves, the state's director of coastal activities, told lawmakers. "No one is being left behind."
An overlooked goal of the master plan is an aggressive 30-year time line for reversing a cornerstone trend. Within this period, officials expect Louisiana will be able to boast that more land is being created than lost. When this transition is achieved, Louisiana officials will be tasked, for the first time since the 1930s, with measuring how much land is being added as opposed to the net loss. In part, this is being credited to more of a holistic approach in the plan, which must be updated every five years.
Graves said hundreds of projects were reviewed and only the "best investments" were included. While the last master plan that was drafted in 2007 had a price tag of $200 billion, the latest incarnation is a quarter of the size and represents an "achievable dollar figure," he added.
For Lafourche Parish, the plan includes a new focus on protections for La. 1 through a marsh platform configuration. It's a critical artery for the region and the nation as the only land route to and from the Gulf oilfield hub of Port Fourchon. The commitment shows a shifting focus on what's needed to continue progress in the Grand Isle and Port Fourchon areas.
For Terrebonne, parts of the plan address the increasing sustainability concerns in the eastern part of the parish and new marsh creation opportunities throughout its saltwater boundary.
Many of these local efforts came as a result of the public- comment process, which Rep. Joe Harrison, R-Napoleonville, said is proof the planners "listened" and then acted on the recommendations.
"This is what the people of Louisiana have been waiting for," Harrison said during the last Senate committee hearing on the plan. "It's action, not just words."
In regard to the synergy of both parishes, there are commitments in the plan to re-establish and maintain the barrier islands; use the Atchafalaya Basin for fresh water and sediment; and continue large-scale hurricane protection projects such as Morganza-to-the-Gulf and Larose-to-Golden Meadow.
House Natural Resource Chairman Gordon Dove, R-Houma, said the continued support for Morganza is a major accomplishment, and it should be noted that the marsh creation slated for Terrebonne will help complement the massive hurricane protection project.
From a political perspective, the master plan was approved by both the Coastal Protection and Restoration Authority and the Legislature without an opposing vote.
Additionally, public opinion statewide appears to be surging with renewed optimism, according to a March poll that was funded by the National Audubon Society and sampled 801 likely Louisiana voters.
The poll found 88 percent of respondents expressed "optimism" that when adequate funding becomes available, "coastal areas can in fact be saved." It also revealed widespread agreement statewide that Louisiana's coastal areas and wetlands are "very important" to Louisiana's future.
Moreover, 91 percent of participants statewide defined coastal areas and wetlands as "very important" and 86 percent wanted lawmakers to approve the coastal master plan.
Buster McKenzie, president of Baton Rouge-based Southern Media and Opinion Research, which conducted the poll, said it helps paint a picture of where coastal needs stand in terms of state priorities.
"This poll shows Louisiana voters feel strongly that our state's coastal areas and wetlands are crucial to our future," McKenzie said.
Terrebonne Levee Director Reggie Dupre, who as a former state senator was instrumental in compiling the first master plan, suggested it may also be a sign that the state as a whole is taking more ownership of the issue.
Since the federal government began studying the Morganza project 20 years ago, Dupre said not a single dollar from Washington has been dedicated. Local and state governments, however, have put in more than $200 million.
"What has happened practically is the state has taken the place of the federal government," Dupre said. "Big Brother may come and save us one day, but we don't know when and if that will ever be."
Of course, there are critics of the plan. During the legislative debate, Jerry Holden, Ducks Unlimited's director of conservation programs, was one of those voices.
"There are specific issues with the plan that DU would like to see addressed, most notably consideration of migratory bird and private landowner focus groups as part of future framework development teams," Holden said.
He added that anyone owning a part of the coast has a "strong desire" to see wetlands sustained indefinitely, and DU feels private landowners represent a "crucial and untapped resource for plan development and subsequent implementation."
While the final passage of the master plan might be something to cheer, King Milling, chairman of the America's Wetland Foundation, said the focus must immediately shift to Washington, D.C., where several lines of funding are being considered.
"Now, we call on the federal government to act accordingly and fund key projects in the master plan to thus ensure that our coast is less vulnerable to the rising tide and the greatest continuous loss of land on the planet," Milling said.
Jeremy Alford can be reached at email@example.com.


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If your students are anything like I was, they probably don't beg you to learn a duet. And if you've taught them one before, they've probably complained about how hard it was. Duets can be challenging and because of that, they are very valuable for you to teach and your students to learn. Here are … Continue reading
St. Patrick's day piano fun
The more I incorporate the festivities of upcoming holidays, the more fun piano lessons seem to be, both for me and my students! So, with St. Patrick's day right around the corner, I've been searching for some creative ways to add some green, luck and shamrocks into my upcoming lessons. I found some great St. Patty's … Continue reading
Celebrating birthdays: piano style
In honor of my birthday this coming Sunday (March 4th), I decided to dedicate this week's blog post to celebrating birthdays of students (and teachers) during piano lessons. I am a big fan of the birthday certificates that teachers hand out to their students on their birthday but I was not able to find any piano themed … Continue reading
Piano activities for Valentine's Day
Whenever I have the chance to incorporate holidays into my piano lessons, I try to. Not only does it make a lesson more engaging, but it's a fun way for me to teach and for my students to learn. (Plus, anything that involves chocolate is always more fun.) As Valentinte's Day approaches, I've been on the hunt for some … Continue reading
Practicing the piano: methods and techniques on how to get students to practice
A great piano lesson is useless if it isn't followed by some dedicated practicing time. Like anything new we are learning, whether it be math, science, a foreign language, or music, the concept won't stick in our brains until we've practiced and become familiar with it. Here are some great tips I found from another … Continue reading
Teaching piano to auditory learners
Learning how to read music as an auditory learner can be quite a tricky situation. What is an auditory learner and how to do you tell if you or your child is one? Some indicators of an auditory learner are: talking aloud having difficulty following written directions memorizng by saying things aloud being distracted by background noise explaining things … Continue reading


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Current Law Students / Re: Psychiatric Disability Right in Law School« on: October 13, 2009, 06:51:54 PM »
You all want to know, I'll tell you. I have ADD and Bipolar II. I was diagnosed with ADD at 12 and Bipolar II at 19. I know what you all are thinking. Youre thinking Im stupid, unintelligent, insane, and incapable of leading a full life. Guess again! I am smart and intelligent, and perfectly sane. I am a straight A student, who is a Phi Theta Kappa member. I do the same work and take the same tests, as everyone else in my class. I go to college full time. Live on my own, and I am planning on getting an academic scholarship to a school I want to transfer to. I plan to go into public interest law, doing civil rights and litigation work. One of my areas will be disability rights, and I will make sure that one no disabled person has their rights denied, especially people with psychiatric disabilities. Nothing and no one will keep me from being an attorney. If anyone tries to deny me my civil rights, I will sue the pants off of them.
On a personal note, I can tell you that there is nothing worse than being sick, alone and scared and having people ridicule and stigmatize you for it. No one deserves that type of treatment.
I find it really sad that people in this day and age continue to stigmatize people with psychiatric disabilities and deny them their civil rights. They think we're lazy, weak, insane, stupid, violent, etc. However, people with psychiatric disabilities are just as capable and competent as anyone else. They have an illness, just like any other. Like asthma or diabetes. To treat people with psychiatric disabilities this way, is the same as discriminating against someone because of their race, gender, and sexual orientation. You wouldn't make fun of someone with cancer, you wouldn't deny someone with cancer disability accommodations if need be. Then why do the same to someone with a psychiatric disability.
I also find it really sad that people in this day and age, can't see people with psychiatric disabilities for the gifts and abilities they have. Abraham Lincoln suffered from depression. He was a lawyer and the president of the United States. If Lincoln were alive today, and he was a student and had depression, who you deny him his civil rights and a chance to succeed in school? If someone did, they would have never have known one of the greatest presidents who ever lived.
The rehabilitation act of 1973, section 504, grants student with psychiatric disabilities the right to their civil rights and academic accommodations. However, higher education institutions continually ignore the laws regarding student with psychiatric disabilities and its a disgrace. Not to mention that suicide is the second leading cause of death among college students, and the age for most mental illnesses are in ones late teens and twenties. Even with this information, higher education institutions still do nothing to address the problem. Still colleges continue to do nothing about it. Student insurance doesnt even cover mental health parity, and there is a lack of awareness on campus. This is all a result of ignorance and bigotry.
Its time for people to get a clue about mental illnesses and stop the bigotry.
First of all, you really need to work on your writing skills if you plan to be accepted, let along suceed in law school and become licensed because judging on your two samples show above, you are sorely lacking. "grants student with psychiatric disabilities the right to their civil rights". Really? What does that even mean?
Second, what in the world are "psychiatric disabilities"? There are such things as learning disabilites, problems that specifically affect how an individual learns, absorbs information, and their ability to regurgitate that information, but what you described above is an emotional disorder, something that as of yet has not been proven to hinder the learning process. Certain disorders may affect how one copes with stresses, responds to stimuli, and behaves, but it does not affect the brain in such a way as to limit or impede learning.
Finally, lose the chip. Nearly everyone who applies to law school has their own little sob story. Just do a quick search of this site and you will find out that many, many people had to deal with hardships and such. So, join the club, we have jackets.
For your information, I don't have a chip. I am just sick and tired of dealing with people's bigotry. If this was about african-american civil rights, instead of psychiatric disability rights, you would not be saying that.
Also, I had a friend of mine whose a law student read over my statement and he said it was very good and lawyer like.
Also I'm not planning on coming across angry in my personal statement. I am upset with that some of the bigoted statements in this post.


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On 10/30/08 11:41 AM, "Jessica Rosner" <email@example.com> wrote:
> Um Mark
> Record companies are being KILLED, CD sales are off a cliff and the money
> they get from say iTunes is not close to covering it . Record companies are
> LOSING money for the most part , there have been massive cutbacks and
> mergers, it is anything but a thriving business and I think that is what
> Us distributors are very worried about. It should be noted that the music
> market is being destroyed more or less by individuals even those pirating on
> a big scale, schools on the other hand have made licensing deals in many
> cases which of course is what all of us would like if all those really big
> problems could be worked out.
> On 10/30/08 11:29 AM, "Jerry Notaro" <firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote:
>> I don't agree with Mark's analogy either, Jessica, but we have heard the
>> same argument you are presenting from record companies when people started
>> streaming music. Buying and managing music online is a reality and the
>> rights and content holders are making tons of money because of it. If they
>> would have stuck to selling music "only" on cd's, yes, they would be in
>> trouble, but that didn't happen and they are thriving. Much as producers
>> and distributors think librarians are trying to make a fast buck, it is
>> going to be survival mode soon for content providers. People are demanding
>> it and yes, they will pass and choose other content because of the format
>> available.
>> Jerry
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.


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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Santa Clara University vs. University of San Francisco« on: March 20, 2013, 10:58:24 AM »
If USF was still ranked 99, I would go there in a heart beat. Unfortunately, they have dropped to 144. Like you said though, rankings don't matter much at the bottom, or maybe at all, but the new US News rankings take into account employment prospects, and that is where USF took a hit. The fact they they dropped so far down mainly because of employment is very disconcerting to me, because my main goal is to become a lawyer, and to become a lawyer I need a job.
1. As far as location, I currently live and work in SF, and wanted to go to Hastings (but didn't get in) so I could stay in SF. I really liked the USF campus as well, and I am not a fan of the South Bay at all. I actually hate the South Bay. But I am biased, because I had an internship in Santa Clara a few years back and it was a horrible time in my life and caused me to hate the area. Plus I am not a fan of the suburbs, growing up in a small rural town. But my gf went to Santa Clara and she loved it, so I am willing to give it another shot if I like the school. Another thing that I am not sure about regarding location, is that if I want to eventually work in the North Bay, does it matter if I attend USF or SCU? Even though SCU is only an hour (with no traffic) south of SF, it is pretty much another world. I would imagine that most graduates of SCU stay and work in the south bay after graduation, and I refuse to do that (although if push came to shove, aka gotta pay off them loans, I would take a job anywhere).
2. I am looking at all the scholarships as a one year deal. I am not naive enough to think I am going to go into law school and dominate. I have confidence in myself of course, but to assume I am going to renew my scholarship would be doing myself a disfavor. All the scholarships are renewed at about top 1/3 of your class as well.
I have already appealed all the scholarships, USF and McGeorge said they did not negotiate scholarships, and I have not heard back from SCU. Even though USF rejected my appeal, I am thinking about writing/calling them again after their free fall in the rankings (100 to 144). I am sure I am not the only one freaking about about their new rankings and horrible employment statistics, and this could (and probably will) significantly affect their incoming class. If I were them I would start upping scholarship offers, just to try to keep quality students at their school, but who knows. I know you said US News rankings don't matter, but sadly it does matter to 0Ls who don't have much information to pick schools with.
3. I really liked the USF campus and the feel. I could definitely see myself going there. Like I said before, I am not a fan of the South Bay at all, but maybe the Santa Clara Campus will change my mind. We shall see when I visit the campus. I really know what you mean about the feel of a school and their students though. I transferred universities in undergrad because I hated the one I attended first (loved it when I visited in the summer of my Jr. year of HS), and it made a world of difference. I absolutely loved the second university I attended, and it made my quality of life a million times better and just made me an overall happy person. So the feel of a school matters immensely to me, since I have experienced hating the school I attended.
Would you say USF and SCU have similar alumni networks in terms of strength of lawyers in the Bay Area? The alumni network of each school is high on my list of deciding factors, but I cannot get a grip on which is better, or how strong they are, because everyone I talk to says their school has the best alumni network. I guess I need to contact more lawyers who didn't go to USF or SCU and asked them. I have contacted a few, and they didn't really know.
Thanks for all the help, I really really appreciate it Mr. Library Crackhead Man. If you want to respond back I would be forever greatfull, but if not, no hard feelings.


text:
Holland's evolution has given KC elite closer
SURPRISE, Ariz. -- There's a story about Greg Holland that manager Ned Yost likes to tell, which he did at the Royals FanFest a while back. It's about Holland's big league debut on Aug. 2, 2010, at Oakland.
"The thing with Holly back then is he had great stuff but really struggled to command his fastball. He'd throw it all over the place," Yost said.
SURPRISE, Ariz. -- There's a story about Greg Holland that manager Ned Yost likes to tell, which he did at the Royals FanFest a while back. It's about Holland's big league debut on Aug. 2, 2010, at Oakland.
"The thing with Holly back then is he had great stuff but really struggled to command his fastball. He'd throw it all over the place," Yost said.
So it was the eighth inning, the Royals were getting beat by the A's in a shutout and it looked like a low-stress situation for Holland.
"It's always kind of cool for me to see guys make their Major League debuts, because they've worked their whole life to get to this point and now their dream's going to be recognized when he gets to be a Major League pitcher," Yost said.
Holland got the first batter out but then came a walk, a single and an infield hit that scored a run.
"It's 3-2 on the next guy and he walks him, and he's got the bases loaded and one out," Yost said. "You could tell at this point that his Major League debut is not going really well. So I called time out and walked out to the mound and looked him in the eye and calmly as I could I said, 'Hey, you've got yourself in a little bit of a jam here, don't you?' And he looked at me and said, 'Yeah.'
"So I said, 'Here's what you do.' Jason Kendall was the catcher. I said, 'You just stay focused on Jason. He's going to give you a nice little target. You just attack. Don't try to aim it, don't try to guide it. Just rear back and fire it into the zone to Jason, and you're going to get this guy to hit a ground ball.' "
The infielders, of course, gathered around to listen.
"'Now, who wants a ground ball?'" Yost asked them. "I turned to the infielders and they're all looking at me. I said, 'Who wants it? Who's going to get this ground ball and turn two for Holly?' And they're all looking at each other and Yuniesky Betancourt says, 'I'll take it.' So I said, 'Holly, here's what you do. Stay focused on Jason, this guy's going to hit a ground ball and Yuni's going to turn two for you and we're going to go sit in the dugout.' Second pitch, ground ball and Yuni turns two, and Holly walks off the mound with a big smile on his face."
Holland was listening as Yost unraveled the tale. What did the pitcher think?
"He should've come out before the inning started," Holland said with a wry smile.
Things have changed dramatically for Holland. He's in the Royals' Spring Training camp for the second time as the club's Pitcher of the Year.
After a rocky beginning in 2010, he went to Venezuela to play that winter, harnessed his command and came to the Royals' camp in '11 looking like a new pitcher.
Called up from Triple-A Omaha early that year, Holland quickly became the Royals' most reliable reliever. By midseason 2012, he graduated from setup man to full-time closer. And in '13, he had 47 saves in 50 chances, a 1.21 ERA, 103 strikeouts and just 18 walks in 67 innings.
"It's been a process for me, and it's something I hope to continue to build on. But the thing that's helped me the most is just staying in the moment and not looking at the big picture, especially when stuff starts going wrong for me," Holland said.
"You can think about the situation at hand and the pitch at hand instead all the negative things that might have already happened in the game. Then you can calm yourself down and slow the game down. This game's played at a fast level and a lot of times as a young pitcher when things are going good it's easy. But when things are going bad it speeds up on you, you don't think very well, you just kind of look at the plate and throw it."
Holland was a shortstop and third baseman at McDowell High in Marion, N.C., and then was a walk-on candidate at Western Carolina University.
"I had to walk on there at Western Carolina, and I just always wanted to be as good as I could be and I never knew where that was going to lead me," he said. "Few of us do."
What it led to for Holland was not the infield but the pitching mound.
"I've always felt like I had something to prove. It's always been my mentality, so I kind of pitch with a chip on my shoulder, I guess," Holland said.
That chip is a good thing, according to pitching coach Dave Eiland.
"Every pitcher should have it -- all the great ones do," Eiland said. "Holly is an extreme talent, but his makeup matches it. I hate to use clichés, but he has that bulldog mentality - 'I'm coming at you, and here we go.'"
That chip apparently is part of his DNA.
"I guess I've always had it," Holland said. "I grew up playing baseball with my dad and my brother. We love the game and we love to be outside playing sports, whatever it was. I think it's just the competitive nature. You can't really teach it, you either have it or you don't."
Holland's wife, Lacey, has learned first-hand about Holland's competitiveness.
"Whatever I was doing, I always wanted to be the best," Holland said. "I still get really upset when my wife beats me at cards or something at home. She's always giving me stuff like, 'It's just a game!' "
Holland always has an answer for her: "It's a game, but we're playing it to win. So why would I not want to win?"
Most of the time, he does.


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Liberian Doctor Dies of Ebola Virus
Two American Health Workers at Hospital in West African Country Have Been Infected
One of Liberia's most high-profile doctors has died of Ebola, a government official said Sunday, and two American aid workers at a hospital in the West African country have been infected, highlighting the risks facing health workers trying to combat the spread of the deadly virus.
Samuel Brisbane is the first Liberian doctor to die in an outbreak the World Health Organization says has killed 129 people in Liberia, and more than 670 in several West African countries. The WHO confirmed that the Liberian ministry of health had...


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Buying a Used Sienna
Carfax's +/- market is a joke. You will see some one owner vehicle has -$100.00 or 4 owners vehicle has +$200. There +/- market is all over the map. The worst I have seen was one "accident" "airbag deployed" car has a +.
Go figure.
My rule for a used car is like this: take 50% off from orginial price (NEW) for every 5 years. If a new 2011 Sienna LE sell for $30K right now, a 2006 LE should be around $15000 (of course you do make adjustment on overall condition, miles and who is selling the car).
KBB works for the seller, not the buyer. Don't buy 1 or 2 years old USED car unless you get good deal. If you look around, you will notice a 2009, 2010 Sienna still ask for high number, sometime even close to 2011's pricing.
Don't waste time buying from small auto broker (unless you have a small budget), they get cars mainly from auction (meaning no body wants to keep those cars at the beginning).
I have good experience picking up used car from Lexus, Toyota and Nissan dealership. 1) most of the cars they got are from trade, 2) if they sell it themself, it means the cars are worth keeping, otherwise, they just send it to auction.0
stever Posts: 52,683Did you go looking for a used car and find that prices were so high that it made more sense to buy a new car instead? Or found that your trade-in was worth a lot more than you expected?
If so, a reporter wants to interview you. Please email [email protected] no later than 3pm Eastern on Thursday, May 5, 2011 and include your daytime contact information.0
I posted in the RWTIV about a used 2007 LE that I am going to look at this weekend, hopefully.
It seems that used prices of 2007-8's are in the high teens to low 20's.
After looking at Zag it appears I can get a new 2011 LE for about 27K plus TTL.
Does anyone have any thoughts on comparison between the two?
After searching it seems that more people are preferring their older models over the new one.
I think I am now leaning towards a new one.
Interested to hear what others are thinking.
Here is the 2007 private sale asking 15K
Mileage: 50000
Color: Gray/ Gray cloth
The online listing says Automatic Transmission, ABS, Alloy Wheels, Power seat, Cruise Control, Parking/Backup Sensor
Power Sliding Doors, DVD System with remote and two wireless headsets.
6 CD MP3/CD AM/FM Stereo System, Premium JBL 12 Speaker system. Privacy Glass, Roof Rack, 7 Passenger seating.
New Brakes,New Tires, Fully Maintained and Serviced. Moving Must sell.
I contacted private seller and he gave me a link to carfax and said he is second owner.
You have to ask yourself 1st how much you want to spend, 2nd, how long you plan to keep the car.
We had 04 LE AWD and ready to get a 2011 XLE AWD, within our budget and plan to keep for many years but I end up cancelled my order. Reason 1), really don't feel the interior quality on the 2011, 2) didn't have the same excitiment compared to buying our 04 back then (kind of telling me something is not right) 3) see the 04-2011 has better value.
So we went back and look for a 2006 Limited Sienna, cost less, better equip (over the 2011 XLE we were looking at). well, at the end, we ended up buying a 2007 Highlander AWD
WHY? We still like to move to the new sienna but not on the 2011, maybe in a year or 2 when they make some improvement (hopefully) and we know the HL will hold the resale better since we only plan to keep it for a year or 2.
In your case, if LE is what you are looking for, and money is not a factor, go with 2011, newer and has warranty. Your listing if is LE, not sure you can get factory DVD and JBL 12 speakers? I will see it in person to confirm0
Thanks for the post Lou. Honestly, I don't want to spend any money . We usual keep our cars until they are well over 100K miles.
We have had our current 99 Sienna XLE for almost 8 years. We bought it used from a family member with about 65K miles and now it has 165K. Little things like the power door not closing properly for the last 5 years has been wearing on the Mrs. Every door handle has had to be replaced including the rear hatch. Currently, the passenger side door handle needs to be fixed. The check engine light says we need a need o2 sensor. A lot of the radio buttons have fallen off, but I got some Mighty Mendit and glued them back on finally.
It still runs well. . . but my wife would like to have an mp3 input and Middle windows that go down. Oh, and doors that work.
I started looking at 07 and 08 LE's because they should fit the bill. My wife would miss the sunroof of our current van but she will be thrilled with something new to her.
A brand new 2011 seems to be only 10K more than these 3- 4 year old used ones. It would be a little bit of a stretch to get the new one, but we would have a warranty and maintenance for 2 years covered.
I have yet to see the 2011 interior in person.0
If you haven't seen the 2011 interior yet and want to go that route, my suggestion is NOT to check out too many 2004-2010 Sienna. Jumping from 04-10 to 2011+, you WILL disappointed with the interior quality. The 1 thing good about the 2011+ is the outside, new style. Sounds like you keep your van for long time, again, may as well go with 2011+ LE (it comes with mp3, 2 power doors)0
CR lowered the score for the new model, so you're not the only one to feel that way.
I'd probably look at a CPO 2010 if I were shopping today.
Funny thing is CR docked the Odyssey's score also. Both were downgraded.0
We went shopping for a 2011 LE, and ended up with the CPO '08 LE. Realize that our last 9 car purchases have been new vehicles, so buying uses was a new experience for us.0
Please share the details and the reasons behind it. Thanks.0
Sorry, didn't see your note before now.
My wife is the primary driver of the van, so her preferences carry a lot of weight. Our first preference was another Honda Odyssey, having had an excellent ownership experience with our '02. We didn't even get out of the parking lot with the new style '11. She hated everything about it, particularly the exterior styling and the impact of those windows on drivers visibility. Next up was a CPO 2010 Ody, but the price was high and she didn't like that the rear quarter windows are fixed. She frequently leaves them open to vent the van.
So now off look at others. The Kia Sedona felt too truck-like. It's just not as refined. We drove an LE and XLE 2011 Sienna. They were both pretty nice, but there were issues with quality of materials, fit & finish, price, etc. She hated the way the middle seats move, and just couldn't master folding them. The tracks look like a real liability. We've also been burned on 'first year' models before, and so when we looked at the recalls and owner comments were a little bit worried about the potential for problems.
Finally we tried a CPO van (I think it was an 8 passenger '08). It had the most 'familiar' feel to her, and hit all the right buttons (look, feel, function, etc.). It took a tri-state search and some driving to find the best deal (we wanted a 7 passenger), but ended up with a 'drives like new' CPO '08 LE with 20k miles for $19k. We added a Platinum warranty to that to be sure it was a good choice.0
Good choice...0
Thanks for the informative post. Good stuff. I appreciate it.0
mco1950 Posts: 1I am waiting for the new Toyota sienna 2012 and I want to know when is arriving
And what is new if is any changes0
lxowner2 Posts: 51Toyota's website has a release on the 2012 Sienna. It says the price increase is negligible (except for the SE model which went up about 2K), and that there are no significant changes from the 2011 model. Which means no interior upgrade or MPG improvement as rumors have it. Do you think you will get 4K off the sticker on a 2012 when it comes out?0
hp2009 Posts: 65if you are not in rush for sienna then wait for 2012....my friend who worked in sales told us that interior will be changed with more quality....dealer will make u buy 2011 ...they will never tell truth about 2012 model since they donot get any special rebate or hold back on new models...same as cust no special apr and 1st 3 months....most 2012 models goes for msrp price (every models )
bravojunkie Posts: 5From Toyota's Aug 8, 2011 press release:
All-new in 2011 model year, the Sienna van carries over virtually unchanged. Pricing for the Sienna will range from $24,520 for the front-wheel-drive Base grade to $40,570 for the all-wheel-drive Limited, reflecting an overall increase of $174 or 0.5 percent. Prices for the 2012 Sienna will go into effect beginning with the start of production on September 6.
They have a table in the PDF that lists the new MSRPs and shows how much of a increase there is for each vehicle.0
jrsharp88 Posts: 20
rangers6905 Posts: 1i have the oppt to get a 2006 sienna xle limited which has 74000 miles on it. the inside is in very good condition-and the outside is also good.
my question is what should I pay for it? my trade is a joke-I am still driving a 1993 Taurus Wagon with 125 k miles. overall my wagon runs well-the engine is good but I do not want to put any more $$ in repairs -the rust on the sides and underneath is getting bad. To get $1 k for it is good. with that said- Edmunds is a saying that a 2006 XLE Limited at 74,000 miles trade in value is from $14,300 to $16,800.00
The dealer wants about $19 k. so what should I pay for this Van? lets say they gave the owner $16 k for this XLE -i would say thta to offer $18 K IS PLENTY. I get $1k for my wagon and buy this van for $17 k or is that too much-shoot for $16 k?
Hope you can help me with my questions. Much apprecited!0
Question #1 is do you really need an XLE Limited. It was an expensive van to begin with, so it drives a higher resale value. Could you live with an LE, or is that just too stripped for you? I ask because if you go back a few posts you'll see that I bought a Certified 2008 with 20k miles for slightly under $19k earlier in the season. A full year bumper to bumper, and lots of time left on that 7 yr / 100k powertrain warranty.
The 2012's are about to roll out, and resale on used vans takes another step down. 2+ years older, relatively high miles, not much warranty (assumed). To me, that's a lot of money for more van than I have a need for.0
wtn928 Posts: 1fibber2, thank you so much for you help on this forum. I'm also looking for a used 08. I'm wondering if the price you paid includes the "all fee" charged by dealer? If yes, how much is it? Thank you very much.0
Full breakdown:
2008 LE, 20,053 miles = $18,931
Dealer Doc fees & Gas = $75
NYS 2 yr Registration & Title = $151
NYS Inspection = $21
NYS Sales Tax = $1627
That's it.... No extra garbage fees.
Afterwards, I decided to add a Toyota Extra Care Platinum zero deductible 8 year 125k extended warranty. Yes, the Certified van does come with the 7 yr /100k powertrain, but only a 1 yr / 12k B to B. Given our projected usage, I think the 125k miles coverage will be about right. I have lousy luck, and tend to find that I at least break even on these or even come out a little ahead if I get a good price going in. I got a great offer ($1,450) from dealership in Illinois. I doubt that you will find much better out there.0
I thought I might clarify something... You do not have to purchase a Toyota (or most brands) extended warranty from the selling dealer. I went shopping on line for the best deal. Over the years I bought a Subaru warranty from a dealership in CT, Honda from KY, and now Toyota in IL.0
I'd love some feedback from others who have bought used! I am trying to buy a good clean low mileage minivan. I have tried other brands and models with little success; now am trying Toyota.
I have been using Edmunds.com TMV with disastrous results -- nobody seems to accept these numbers. Not dealers, not private sellers. They often get seriously angry if you bring these numbers in.
Example: I have found a very nice clean 2005 Sienna with 50K. But the dealer has it marked $17,950. Edmunds TMV (for dealer retail!) is .... $11,040.
Now that's a darn big gap. I can see going a bit over TMV for an especially nice car, on of the border of "excellent" vs. "good". But $6000? How can there be such a huge gap?
How can I offer $6000 UNDER asking price? I mean, I can negotiate a thousand or two off the price. But $6000?
So which price is correct? And how do I keep from getting ripped off? (The van is not Toyota certified, but "dealer" certified, about a 3 month warranty, nothing worth paying for.)
If I could buy a Toyota van this age and mileage for $11K, I'd be thrilled, but it seems impossible. Dealers all have these marked into the mid-teens. Even a 2004 is about $14-15K. Even private sellers won't go this low.
How can I trust TMV if it is not represented in reality? Who is getting these fabulous deals? NOT ME!
Also: any advice on how to deal with dealers who mark up vehicles sneakily with HUGE document fees. I remember just a few years ago the doc fee was like $60. Then it was $100. Today it is standard to charge $250. I am paying cash, so this is insane -- no credit check, no actual DOCUMENTS. Yet I must pay! If I suggest rolling this into the offer, they go ballistic on me.
I have read here some dealers only charge $75 but I can tell you that is unheard of in NE Ohio!0
jproc Posts: 135go to the "smart shopper" board-"what is my trade in worth topic and ask this question.There is a dealer there who is very forthcoming on what used cars are going for.Good Luck!0
jpf Posts: 496You'll find used Toyota's are way overpriced. If you want a much lower price either buy a Chrysler (Caravan or Grand Caravan) or GM (Uplander or Montana). I just bought a 2007 Uplander LT (SWB) with 55k miles for about $11k (taxes incl.). The dealership had a 2004 with 133k miles for about the same price and a 2005 with 88k miles for about $15k. I know Toyota is better quality but these price differentials are ridiculous. The Edmunds TMV for the Uplander was about right. Good luck.0
I finally did buy a 2006 Mazda MPV minivan with 50K -- just a newer version of my old 2001. Not too exciting, but a good solid vehicle. It wasn't as cheap as your Uplander, though.
I had very few choices, and finally decided this was my best option out of the limited ones available. There are very few affordable minivan choices left, and some vehicles like the MPV just aren't in that big supply, or all the ones you see are very high mileage (over 120K).
I think Toyota Siennas are a good van, BUT anyone paying $11K for ANY car with 133k miles, especially in a winter climate, has been deluded into "magical thinking" about the most popular Japanese manufacturers! That's just too much money, and out of whack depreciation on those vehicles.
I definitely found this summer that prices are way up and the supply is way down -- at least of minivans. Many factors, including:
• Cash For Clunkers removed a lot of good vans from the market, unnecessarily (they are/were no more high mileage than an ordinary sedan!)
• The Japanese tsunami delayed a lot of new vehicles, pushing some new car buyers into used
• Overall, MUCH higher pricing on new vehicles of all types has pushed many cash-strapped Americans into used vehicles
• Dealers taking advantage of all this, and jacking up prices
• The fact that since 2006, many of the more moderately priced vans (MPV, Venture, Freestar, Montana, etc.) were discontinued, meaning many fewer choices
It was definitely discouraging. Kia dealers told me that this is the last year for the Sedona, the last of the moderately priced vans. (Chryslers really are not cheap; not anymore!) SO in the future, the choices will be even worse.
I agree that one must often make a tradeoff between ideal quality and price -- some point, price gouging makes even good quality vans like the Sienna simply unaffordable -- at least for me!0
I totally agree about used Siennas being way too pricey, but the silver lining is if you do buy one, the residual values are strong.
I bet I could sell my van for $7000 less than I paid for it, new, 4.5 years ago. They hardly depreciate at all. That's about $130 per month.
Used Kias - my issue with that is the 10.100 goes away, you only get what's left of the 5/60 warranty. Hence low resale.0
Good points. People want to buy Siennas, but the pricing is so high they are driven to used --- which has driven the USED prices sky high.
I am quite sure you could sell your Sienna for what you say. I have seen used 2009 Siennas on dealer lots priced only $5000 less than a new model. What ever happened to the old saw that "it depreciates 30% the second you drive it off the lot?" hahahaha.
Also: an interesting article in my local paper about Priuses -- some owners find they can sell after 1 year or 2 years at slightly MORE than they paid....meaning they drove the car for free.
You have an excellent point about the Kia Sedona: it has a horrible resale value (at least, on paper) because A. the warranty goes away and B. dealers won't lease it.
You certainly won't get the resale of a newish Sienna with the Kia. But for a cash-strapped buyer IF you could buy the Kia at Edmunds TMV at the ideal point (IMHO) of 4 years (48 months) of age and under 48,000 (no more than 1000 per month, ideally less) and use that car for 5 years, then you'd be ahead of the Toyota -- quite a bit moneywise.
That assumes you like the Kia (and I do) and would be satisfied with it. Some people attach great value to the brand, over and above actual performance. Some people could not live with having a US carmarker's nameplate on their bumper -- Toyota and Honda are very important status markers in some upscale areas.
One example: my niece (then 20) needed a car for college. Her grandfather had left her a beautiful six year old Buick LeSabre -- with every bell and whistle and 19K on the odometer -- leather, CD player, etc. SHE SNEERED AT IT. She told her parents she'd rather die than show up at school amongst her friends (who all had Toyotas and Hondas) with A BUICK. So they sold it at a big loss, and had to put several thousands together to buy her a Toyota Corolla, with no airconditioning let alone leather seats. It was also a couple years older than Buick. It's needed some maintenance as a result. But GOD FORBID the dear girl drive a "low class American" car, even for free.
I know dozens of such examples. It is very hard to separate the actual quality of Toyota and Honda (which definitely exist) from the "mystique" and I suspect the mystique drives much of the high used pricing.
Unfortunately I cannot afford any "mystique" so I must look elsewhere for car values.0
Priuses -- some owners find they can sell after 1 year or 2 years at slightly MORE than they paid....meaning they drove the car for free.
Incredible, really. But I think they were helped out by a tsunami that basically cut off supply significantly, driving up used prices. Lucky timing.
I'm impressed with what Kia has done lately, but the Sedona is an older design. They did put a modern engine and transmission in it, at least.
I test drove one - my thought was that the base models they were selling for $19 grand were great values. At that price I had no issues whatsoever. The loaded ones pushed high 20s and then suddenly some parts of the interior felt cheap for that price class.
If you can sacrifice options and content, see if you can get a bargain on a base model.
Then add a DVD screen for the kids aftermarket, slap on a portable GPS, and call it good. Haven't shopped lately but if you can start at $20k or so for a new one...and used 3 year old Siennas are the same price, go with the one that will still have a warranty in 2021.0
I should be so lucky, LOL. Yes, I don't think this is always true or will be in the future when Japan is back in their feet, but for SOME Prius owners, it was a fortunate windfall.
Definitely the Sedona is an older design; it was redesigned in 2006 and a big improvement over the first Sedona.
Dealers have told me confidentially "this is the last year for Sedona....it's just not selling". Of course, that doesn't matter to me in some ways -- it (should) mean lower prices.
It's just sad that there will be yet another loss of choice, and almost nothing in the "affordable minivan" category unless you count the Mazda 5, which is frankly a 4 cylinder station wagon and not a true minivan.
Also your impression of the Sedona is similar to my own. The first few times I saw them (early to mid 00s), I was underwhelmed. Even with a fantastic warranty, I thought they looked a little cheap next to my Nissan Quest. Plastic side door panels, etc.
They have improved, but are obviously a lower cost alternative to a pricey Toyota or Honda. Certainly SOME of the reason they are cheaper is they have not used as high grade materials in the finishes.
The LX models (used to be mid-range, but now basically the standard model) are indeed being offered around $19,999 which is not bad. However, they lack some basics like alloy wheels (they have super-cheap plastic hubcaps, which are sure to fall off!).
If you go up to the EX, you get at least alloys, power seats and doors and much improved upholstery materials. As you say, if you slap on a DVD player (woohoo, what do those run? $30?) and leather, you can push this vehicle up into the 30s. That is far too much to pay for Sedona IMHO.
There appear to be a lot of Sedonas left on Kia dealer lots -- both '11s and '12s -- and I think in the winter months there will be additional price cuts.
However, I am far from the new car market in affordability. I think I've owned my last brand new car -- too overwhelming to owe a payment each month, too much depreciation (excepting those lucky Prius owners).
You make a good point that SOME dealers are pricing USED Sedona LXs from '09 and '10 pretty darn the same as a NEW Sedona LX -- that's crazy talk. You lose the warranty, and don't benefit one inch from some fairly steep depreciation. Don't know who is going for those bad deals, but it is not ME.0


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|2007-09-19, 01:19
|Link #461
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 33
In Gundam SEED, Athrun is in the exact same position that Shinn is. Why did Athrun join ZAFT? Because his mother, along with the colony of Junius 7, was destroyed by the Earth Alliance. Why did Shinn join ZAFT? Because his family was killed by fighting between Earth Alliance and Orb, and his nation was damaged as well. The reasons are practically identical.
What happens as SEED progressed? We see the fighting escalate, and eventually Athrun and Kira reach the point where they try to kill each other. After this, they have a revelation about warfare in general and get a good look at the big picture. They change their ideas about fighting after that. What about Shinn? Like Athrun, he has a moment where he thinks that he killed Kira. Unlike Athrun, he didn't have an emotional attachment to Kira, but Athrun's remorse and explanation about how Kira never tried to kill anyone did seem to impact Shinn. Considering that Shinn's whole strategy against Kira was to exploit his unwillingness to kill, I'd imagine that Shinn felt like a bit of a villain (the viewers surely saw him as such). Shinn also has a moment where he believes that he killed Athrun and Meyrin. Shinn wasn't all that close to Athrun, or even to Meyrin, but he was close to Luna, and Meyrin was Luna's sister. This could have also triggered a revelation for Shinn, as Shinn lost his own sister to war, and now someone close to him lost her sister (or so they believed), at Shinn's own hands, due to war. These are some major opportunities for Shinn to exhibit a change of values, but he doesn't.
It's important because after the events of SEED, the viewers have been hyped up about stopping the war. Orb's philosophy was presented as the prevailing one that would save the world. When Shinn trashed it, obviously that was a negative. The series never had him come around to doing what was really right, though. Shinn's idea of stopping war was to purely support the ideals of Chairman Dullindal. Unlike "Team Lacus" he never really seemed to put much thought into how war could really be stopped - he was just told by Rey to believe in and support the Chairman, and he did. He occasionally seemed to hesitate, but unfortunately we were never shown his thought process, so we can't know why or how deep it went.
I felt that Shinn seemed to be sort of hollow at the end of the series, as though he were confused about whether what he was doing was the right thing or not. He never pulled out of it, though. The last bit we get to see of him in action is where he'd have killed or seriously injured Luna had Athrun not intervened. His character development was nonexistent, and he was given some terrible traits. I was surprised to find that anyone could be a fan of him, but I'm glad that we're all able to discuss it like this. I can see that you who support Shinn had very different takes on the series than I did.
|2007-09-19, 05:37
|Link #462
Ancient Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
|2007-09-19, 14:49
|Link #463
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Shin fans - I don't understand them. Shin was just stupid because he couldn't control his emotions, he just blamed people for not being able to protect his family- specialy his sister. He had so many chances to change himself, to see what's right but no - he just used his anger to kill people, nothing more.
To bad that most of the battle scenes were involving him and the fact that he defeated Freedom with that mobile suit - no comment.
This is just my opinion, I won't be having a debate with anyone .
|2007-09-19, 15:28
|Link #464
Magic Pilot
Either way, since Orb was presented with the "right" ideology in the last series, the entire idea of new characters opposing the old ones could have worked, and worked well, if a new ideology really brought into question the righteousness of Orb's world view.
Back to Shinn for this last bit, though. Shinn is a career soldier, and the fact that he's in the military keeps him out of the cold. I don't think Shinn has as much leeway to question why he's fighting - If he stops, what's he going to do with the rest of his life?
|2007-09-20, 16:40
|Link #466
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 33
As for Shinn, your points about the military are valid, but there's an exception. Shinn wasn't just part of the military - he was a pilot, and a red suit at that. This becomes pure speculation at this point, but I'd argue that he had to have some major drive not only to become a pilot, but to become so skilled that even as an upper-level pilot he had his own unique unit. Arguably this trumps any facts of whether he truly believed that he'd end up fighting or not - if he just wanted to join the military and live out his life, he could have just become a mechanic or any other maintenance worker. The mechanics of the Minerva even seemed to make up the majority of his friends.
|2007-09-20, 17:41
|Link #467
Magic Pilot
|2007-09-20, 23:06
|Link #468
Tsubasa No Kami
They all respected Athrun even before he took charge of the Lohengrin gate destruction thingy. They were all gushing "Athrun is the hero of the last war" yadda yadda yadda. It was only Shinn who came to respect him I think in that particular episode - remember that he was also suspicious of Athrun being another new superior officer and all that. And we all know how Shinn reacts to authority.
|2007-09-21, 05:26
|Link #469
Ancient Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
|2007-09-21, 08:42
|Link #470
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|2007-09-21, 14:17
|Link #471
Magic Pilot
|2007-09-21, 15:07
|Link #472
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 33
My first point of disagreement is over what we'd consider a good soldier to be. Is it someone who can simply follow orders? Is it someone who is skilled at their position? Is it someone who fights for the ideals, rather than their superiors? Depending on which definition you choose, or which you mix and match, Athrun or Shinn emerge as the superior soldier. Athrun falls into the type of soldier who has his eye more on the big picture than on obeying orders from his superiors. Seemingly from the very beginning of Destiny, Athrun is shown to be troubled by what he sees unfolding: fake Lacus; the development of more weapons; an agenda that somehow makes him clash with Kira once more; the call for the destruction of Logos (followed by the development of even more weapons), and so on. He didn't leave ZAFT for no reason in Destiny, either. Meer warned him of the conversation between Rey and Dullindal, and Athrun happened to second-guess what they were going to do. Leaving ZAFT was, in a way, a matter of survival for him. In Gundam SEED, he did leave ZAFT of his own decision, but not without a lot of thought and anguish.
Contrast that with Shinn's decisions. Arguably, Shinn worked on a much smaller scale, performing actions that weren't as massive as changing sides. Shinn always did his actions relatively quickly, as well. Disobeying Athrun's orders was one thing, but the returning of Stellar was arguably the biggest defiance that Shinn performed. He didn't take any real deliberation over it. I believe we see him looking upset, and then a few scenes later, he's going ninja on the nurse and busting Stellar out of there. He never truly put thought into it and gave thought to ZAFT's protocols or actions, he just acted out of emotion for Stellar and that was it.
Toward the end of the series there does seem to be some hope for Shinn, as he answers less readily to Dullindal and Rey and does seem to be a bit confused. The series never really allowed him to draw his own conclusions, though.
|2007-09-21, 16:01
|Link #473
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
Durandall, I don't think was a bad guy because of his ideology. Ideologies are never wrong. Ever. They're opinions, no more and no less, and a "wrong" ideology implemented in a good way, would probably be much better than a "right" ideology implemented in a bad way.
Lacus didn't decide to strike down Durandall because of his ideology, and Kira I don't think ever really opposed Durandall directly for his ideology. Hell, even between ep 23~28, the part where Kira is talking to Murrue when she gives him that big sister pat on the head, he says that maybe it was all just some mistake and that there really was a rogue group from the PLANT trying to kill Lacus.
Heck, as for the Destiny Plan placing people in work that they would be good at by the code of their genes, do you know how good of a plan that actually would be?! If it would work perfectly, it'd mean the end of unemployment and perhaps even the end of all poverty. Interestingly enough, both of my grandfathers were engineers, and in turn, my major is also of an engineering discipline. My parents deviated from these engineering genes, and we're not millionaires. I think I have a good future ahead of me since essentially I'm returning *to* the disciplines which my genes have imparted upon me.
On an aside, I also heard upon campus that an African American's brain was 5 cm less in circumference than a caucasian's, whose brains were 1 cm less in circumference than that of asians. It seems to be a reasonable explanation as to why there are so many african-americans playing sports (take note of football, basketball, and boxing), and finding employment in manual labor, and makes a joke I once heard less surprising.
"Demongod, you're 92nd in class rank," says my counselor (in high school)
"Man, I'm 92nd...who's ahead of me?!"
"Lots and lots of asians," responds a classmate.
End aside.
Frankly, if there was some sort of politiconomical plan that took note of this, was able to map it, and to find opportunity for everyone, what's *not* to like about that? I highly doubt that it would absolutely destroy freedom of choice as Lacus thought.
What *would* take away freedom of choice, is how Durandall chose to implement this plan. He wanted everyone to comply to his rules, and those that didn't would no longer exist. Come on, the guy tried to kill you, and on top of that, he's trying to zap your country with a giant laser. You call *that* a good idea?
Frankly, I think it would have made for a much *better* plot if instead of sending assassins after Lacus that Durandall went and assassinated the *Seirans*, and instead figuratively picked up the little doll that was Cagalli, and put her in power with his own blessing. I also wonder why he would choose to assassinate Lacus, when she was just living on an island taking care of orphans. And in the end, ironically enough, Lacus was *supportive* of Mia taking over her songstress role, if it made Mia happy.
It probably would have made life a lot easier for Lacus had Mia lived, and had Mia run into trouble of not being able to write original songs, or would have had two children with Athrun (okay, let's not go there...I'm trying to make Britney Spears look stupid here, in case you didn't notice ), Lacus would have stepped in for a little bit and fixed things up, so long as Mia put in the legwork, which Mia had the unlimited energy to do.
And because of Durandall's fetish with removing Lacus, Mia in the end bit it, as did Durandall.
What *would* have been interesting, though, was if Durandall, rather than trying to wipe Lacus out, simply gave her no reason to come after him with her space fleet and custom-built shiny-suits for her two knights. In that case, the Minerva *would* have been the second archangel, and Destiny and Legend the second coming of Freedom and Justice.
No...Dully's plan wasn't bad...Dully's implementation was just horrible. Then again, I really think that the producers didn't give Dully's character enough thought...why would he send a few mobile suits to take out Lacus when he knew the Freedom was hiding there, when the Seirans would have been a far easier target?
|2007-09-21, 16:40
|Link #474
Magic Pilot
I think I'm judging "better soldier" in terms of following orders quickly. Athrun is preferable in other jobs, and I think most of us would like to be more easily compared to Athrun as a person rather than Shinn (Athrun's ability to think for himself is something I think we'd all, myself included, like to think we can do). Athrun, is, in the end, a person who can follow what he ultimately believes in, no matter what outside interference comes. This is not the formula for "a good soldier." I have difficulty picturing someone who hesitates whenever they need to pull a trigger as being the type a commander would want to have in their unit... Granted, Athrun doesn't hesitate THAT much, but I think most people in charge would prefer to not worry about their subordinates constantly worrying if they made the right choice. Of course, Athrun was in a more commanding role in SEED Destiny, so we didn't get to see that, and in SEED, until a little before the end of his time in ZAFT, he tended to just follow orders.
1. This is a way to end poverty. Everyone will be employed, and it's a way to make sure almost everyone is happy. Yes, there will probably be some people would still be depressed and have problems with life, but that's a natural part of being human and can't be helped. As a matter of fact, therapists will have been perfectly selected for their jobs, so they'll be the best the world has ever seen, if all goes properly. War won't ever have to happen again, it'd become a thing of the past, since, with everyone working under one system, there won't be any enemy anymore. It'll all fit, just like pieces of a puzzle.
2. The destiny plan undermines the power of human determination. Yes, perhaps one person's genes are better suited to one task than another, yes, perhaps the person has all the prerequisites in his DNA, but that doesn't mean that they're going to want to work in the job their assigned. People dream, people have aspirations, and those who work hard have always been able to overcome their difficulties. Setting up a system where, no matter how hard a person works, they still can't change where they are in life is simply inhumane.
I tried to make those sound about even. The truth of the matter is that I swing back and forth in my opinion on this, but in the end, I know I'd hate to be trapped in one job against my will, and I know that simply realizing I was trapped would be enough to make me want to do somethin' else. From a purely impersonal standpoint, yes, the destiny plan looks like it could work. So does communism, and democracy could, just like the destiny plan, end poverty "if it all works right." It's designed by humans. Nothing designed by humans works to it's full potential, whether it runs out of batteries, malfunctions, runs slow, breaks, or doesn't work at all.
|2007-09-21, 16:55
|Link #475
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
About the destiny plan point 2:
I think that's a matter of extents. If by your genes I could tell you that you'd be better in a quantitative field and it is strongly suggested for you to go into one, you still have a huge spectrum of options. We don't know how precise the DP was, but to be able to guide people into a potentially suitable field for a slight concession in overall choice I think may work well.
As for Dully not knowing about the Freedom, how could he not know about the Freedom despite knowing about Lacus, and probably Kira? I mean honestly, would the thing just go poof and disappear? He certainly knew who Kira Yamato was ala Ulti Coordy, and he certainly knew about Lacus. It didn't make sense that he just conveniently forgot about Freedom.
|2007-09-21, 17:25
|Link #476
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 33
Let me bring up an interesting series of studies that were performed on identical twins. Twins are people with an identical genetic make up. Have you ever met some? They look alike, but their personalities are not the same. Studies performed on various twins verified that their DNA was the exact same, and yet their genetic expression differed. We have many genes, but not all of those genes are active at once - they couldn't be, or else we'd be in major trouble. The genes only become active under certain conditions and times. A large part of this is due to environmental stimulus. In order to fully clone someone, you would need not only to give them the same genetic makeup, but subject them to the exact same experiences and conditions that the original went through.
If you clone a person, you'll be able to get the majority of physical features to be the same, sure. But your physical build is only part of being matched to a job - depending on the job, it doesn't even have anything to do with it. What matters to a job is your interest in it. I'd propose that the reason why your family has a line of engineers is because the parents laid the foundation for a further interest in engineering, either by inspiring their children about engineering or simply passing on a mentality that is conducive to engineering. There's also the fact that in many cultures, it is expected that the children will take on the same job type as their parents, but I don't know whether your lineage is part of such a culture.
If people could be matched to jobs that they were good at, then it'd simply make things more productive. It wouldn't end unemployment, because people not being able to find what they're suitable for is only part of unemployment. A larger part is simply the jobs not being there, or people being denied opportunities. In order for the Destiny plan to be feasible, not only would the population need to be controlled, but developments would need to be controlled. For example, what if someone is matched perfectly to be a car mechanic, and then robots are developed that could take over that job? The person would be unemployed, or forced into a job that they weren't "destined" for. What you're proposing is an end to progress and development in order for people to exist happily - or what we'd presume is happily.
Speaking of progress, things like scientific advancement, or advancement on any front, aren't formed by people who accept the status quo. My opinion is that a society that accepted something like the Destiny plan would not see any advancement. How could it? People would simply be doing what they were told; sheep who were happy to be herded. How can anyone think outside of the box, and how could anyone suggest something that could shake such a "perfect" system up? There are actually socieities that exist and have existed where something similar took place - people did what they were ordered to do, and didn't question it. Many of those societies were destroyed or are seen as undeveloped by our current standards. Read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel if you're interested in the ideas about why certain societies dominated over others.
Either way, the point that I want to drive here is that genes aren't everything. The debate over "nature vs. nurture" will always continue, but the twin studies that I mentioned above should prove that it's really a combination of both that make the individual. Genetics is still a relatively young science, and I think that people jumped to conclusions over its implications.
When a child is born, their brain is full of activity. It's not just cellular division, but massive linking between the cells. As a person ages, fewer connections are formed and connections are severed. Some say that it's nature's way of making a person more specialized - an energy-saving mechanism so that they only keep what's really necessary. This explains why often, children have an easier time picking things up than adults, and why we lose skills if we don't use them. It's not just a matter of being closed-minded, but about mental flexibility (there is an official term for this, but I can't recall it).
This is science, there's no arguing with it.
If you want to really explain your observations, I'd say that it has to do with psychology and culture. In America, at least, many minority groups are coming from impoverished backgrounds, and it does impact them. They may place less value on education, or they may simply feel that the system is against them and that whatever they do is helpless. For certain, there's likely a level of mistrust against the greater society, and it would be well warranted. It has nothing to do with core intelligence, but motivation, inspiration, and all of those factors.
You (jokingly) mentioned your class rank, and stated that Asians were all ahead of you. This is also cultural. In the Asian culture, bringing honor and prestige to the family is of the utmost importance. As Asian families become Americanized we don't see it as strictly, but the core values are often still there. Caucasians, on the other hand, are much more individualistic. It impacts your drive to study and do well - it even impacts what your definitions of doing well and success are.
But even attributing it to psychology and culture is a bit of a simplification. The point in bringing those up, however, is to show that genetics are not the sole determining factor - arguably they're a very small one.
It's an interesting read either way, as it seems relatively horrific. I'd imagine that the only people who would like such a society are those who do not want to be responsible for themselves and do not like uncertainty in life. Like the Destiny Plan, such a setting as in Brave New World would eliminate those. While it doesn't explicitely take away freedoms in a police state fashion, it takes away freedom of people's development. If you live in a society where everything is taken care of, and you only follow orders, how free will you feel to step out of line, to do something different and revolutionary? Not very. And in some parts of the world, and to some cultures, this is perfectly acceptable. I come from a very individualistic, rather than a collective culture, so my view is that such a thing would be terrible.
The potential for corruption is also seemingly very high. Society has suddenly become accustomed to being given orders. People are afraid of not conforming to the standards. But certainly, someone at the top of the society must be free from it? If so, who's to say that they wouldn't abuse it for their own personal gain? Or, if the entire society came to truly believe in their Destiny society, how likely is it that they'd change it? The society would be stuck, paralyzed out of fear of ruining Destiny. Limited to no progress. Remember, when considering what such an implementation would be like, think about it in terms of how it would impact people's deeper psychologies and the culture. If tomorrow everyone were placed into a new position that they were well-suited for, it'd be wonderful. We all retain the memories of individually fighting for our own betterment, and trying to advance ourselves. What happens in a society where people do what they are told, and never aspire to anything greater?
|2007-09-21, 18:43
|Link #477
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
Good points. As for me, my father is a real estate agent (one of the most disastrous occupations as of the moment), and my mother is a piano teacher. My grandparents were engineers. And I do value individualism more than collectivism, as collectivism has shown itself not to work as it directly clashes with intrinsic human natures.
I am thinking that under the DP, those that were genetically meant to be scientists would be the ones thinking out of the box.
While I never read brave new world, I did read 1984. I think it's the same idea...although once again, if the DP assigns only one job to a person rather than a multitude, yes, we may have a problem.
|2007-09-21, 19:31
|Link #478
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
1. Following orders.
2. Seperating personal feelings from the uniform.
3. Insubordination.
By any measure, Shinn scores extremely poorly on all of these factors. In comparison, Athrun could have acted more professionally, but his overall performance was still fairly decent. While he left ZAFT twice, they were both for reasons that verged towards illegal orders, so there's quite a bit of leeway there.
Also, note that a soldier has absolutely no choice in whose orders he decides to obey.
On the other hand, Durandal is a fairly decent person in many ways. However, his problem is that his belief in his ideology meant that he felt justified in doing very ruthless things.
|2007-09-21, 22:12
|Link #479
Magic Pilot
And then there's the matter of "insubordination" and "following orders." Yeah, Shinn's more insubordinate, but he follows orders extremely well. At this point, I'm defining "insubordination" as "disrespecting superior officers." I would say, however, that Shinn is very adept at handling the majority of his orders. I should also note that I'm judging "following orders" in terms of the severity of the order. When Athrun left the first time, yes, it was after a great deal of thought, but the orders he'd received were perfectly legal. A weapon with a dangerous component in it had fallen into what may be enemy hands. Finding it or destroying it is a perfectly logical, and perfectly legal, action for the military to take. Athrun then goes ahead and changes sides and fights against ZAFT. Yes, that turns out to be the morally right decision, but it doesn't change the fact that he refused to follow lawful orders and went as far as to fight against the military he had previously been in. I'm not gonna say that's the wrong thing, but if you were in charge of the military (and, for the record, believed yourself to be doing the right thing), a soldier who does that is a worse soldier than one who's mouthy, especially if the mouthy soldier happens to complete his missions remarkably effectively. And then in SEED Destiny, we don't know what Dullindal was going to do to him, but if a person in charge has reason to believe that one of their subordinates intensely disagrees with what he's being asked to do and probably won't do their job well, I think most people would want that subordinate off the job. Now, I don't remember all of this episode, and if we had any hint that Athrun was going to be killed or have anything else illegal done to him, it'd be a different story. No, let me rephrase that: If Athrun had had any hint that something illegal may happen to him, then it'd be a different story. If I recall, I don't think he did, other than the military police coming for him.
I'd say Shinn's most severe breach of orders came when he returned Stellar to the Earth Alliance. What ZAFT was doing at that point was, unless there are special, international rules for treating Extendeds, quite illegal. They're running tests on a prisoner of war, and they're going to deface the dead body in order to learn more. This is a human rights issue, I think, and while the Earth Alliance is CERTAINLY not following a good human rights ideal in even creating the Extended, ZAFT would be at fault for not treating them humanely. Shinn returned Stellar to an unlawful military to save her life from another unlawful (I assume) military. In this instance, Shinn's collective transgressions would be less severe before an unbiased audience, or so I believe.
Last edited by Azure22; 2007-09-24 at 13:44.
|2007-09-21, 23:39
|Link #480
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
I think that classifying Athrun as a pure soldier is sort of not in the correct ballpark. Frankly, the second time around, I think Athrun joined ZAFT not to follow ZAFT orders, but to get another gundam, more or less. He joined up so he could do something for Cagalli. In other words, he's more of a knight than a soldier.
As for the military police coming after him, when he saw he was being spied on, I think he added two and two. Either way, there was nothing good that was going to happen to him, so he bailed.
And as for Shinn completing his missions with efficiency, had Kira been not such a nice guy, Shinn would have been dead in episode 23, perhaps 28, 34, and certainly 43 when Kira decided not to torso-beam him right in the cockpit.
For all his "effectiveness", it should be noted that he got as far as he did since Kira was just such a nice guy.
|mecha, seed it and weep
|Thread Tools


text:
ATDI 4G CONTEST awards ceremony has been successfully accomplished at Universidad Rey Juan Carlos (Fuenlabrada) de Madrid.
With the full support of of Universidad Rey Juan Carlos, the excellent presentations of Mr. Ignacio Urrutia, Gerente Service Demand Management from Orang and Juan Perdro Fernandez Cuartero, vocal de la Junta del Gobieerno del COIT, the awards ceremony has gained an overwhelming responses from all participants.
ATDI is proud of this competition which helps engineering students open their first page of career and make more possibilities on the use of 4G network femtocells.
Special thank to Javier Ramos, Director of Telecommunications Engineering school from the Universidad Rey Juan Carlos I, whose premises was held, also attended, during development, the presence of representatives of the French and Finnish embassies and Fanny Bergé, the photographer.