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Brake lights
Brake lights
At night, drive with your rearview cam on and you'll see the brake lights come on when you let off the accelerator.
If you press the Tesla "T" icon top center of your display, it will show you when the lights go on and off...brakes included.
Shouldn't this regen brake light be adjusted for certain speed levels? My fiancee was behind me the other night and she was kidding me about riding the brakes. At some speeds, letting off the accelerator shouldn't automatically trigger the brake lights... IMHO.
@billberndt The brake lights come on based on accelerometer, so they come on whenever the rate of deceleration exceeds a certain measure.
There are two exceptions to this rule:
-The brake lights come on whenever you physically press the brake pedal
-The brake lights come on if you are not pressing either pedal at all and regen is at full strength (kW guage showing -120 kW)*
*I've noticed that in this scenario, even if the car is holding a steady speed, the break lights come on. This scenario can happen when you're going down a steep hill at a high speed (60 mph).
I must say that I am not too thrilled about the regen breaklights coming on most of the time. I always hate to drive behind someone with a "nervous foot" - breaking all the time. All us Tesla drivers will be one of those nervous drivers now. I fully understand why this needed to be implemented by Tesla but I don't like it:-)
I really don't get what the concern is. They don't come on unless the regen is slowing you down to the point that it's similar to braking with the disc brakes.
If you are worried about the brake lights coming off and all the time, well then don't drive that way.
Do they come on if you dial the regen back to the lighter setting? Or is it all based on the amount of deceleration no matter what?
@ Carefree: (olanmills +1) If you are constantly doing regen and then accelerate rather than using a constant amount of power you are wasting some amount of energy and are exactly the "nervous foot" type of driver you dislike. You use regen when you want to slow down, just like you used to use the brake pedal. If you're cruising on the freeway your brake lights should not be coming on. (Note that a small amount of regen while slowly decreasing speed will not cause the brake lights to come on.)
Brake lights coming on, upon vehicle deceleration via regen "I believe" (not 100% sure) is required by law. And if it is not "It Should Be".
Would you rather be rear ended because no one knew you were slowing or put up with the brake lights on your car which you can't see anyway "unless using your display or rear view cam" both of which are not advisable when underway more than necessary.
If a putt-putt is heading down a steep hill at 60 mph, don't you think the brake lights would be on as the driver burns up his brakes? What's the problem?
And give the breaks a break, OK? It's brakes.
I agree with err-on-the-cautious side comments above, but I still think that the brake lights come on too soon at high speed. I'm sure it makes people behind nervous and could potentially cause massive slow downs, behind, when too many Model S are on the road :-)
Seriously, I still can't figure out how the lights are controlled. I thought they came out at or over 20KW of regen, but that's not the case at low speed. Some have suggested they're controlled by an accelerometer, but that doesn't seem to be true at high speed. Plus, why would you use an accelerometer when you have access to real time speed readings and can derive deceleration from it...
And the best way to see the brake lights in action is at night using the rearview camera, when nobody else is around. I wouldn't use the screen that pops up when you press on the "T". It's too distracting if you also want to pay attention to what's happening in front of you.
I actually like the fact that my break-lights going off more than normal might annoy drivers behind me, because there is more a chance someone who likes to rubberneck, will just switch lanes, thus there is far less of a chance of getting rear-ended.
I have been noticing this a fair bit more while driving in the HOV lane. I hate rubberneckers (aka tailgaters), and the MS is not a car they enjoy doing their hobby behind ;-)
I feel safer in my S because I leave more room in front of me to ensure I have room for a regen-only slowdown, and I think other drivers leave more room behind me because they see my brake lights come on often. It's like I have a force field around me!
"Plus, why would you use an accelerometer when you have access to real time speed readings and can derive deceleration from it..."
That method doesn't work when going downhill when you have to brake to just to keep the same speed. People expect the brake lights to come on in that situation, but your method then doesn't work because it detects a constant speed.
@Andre-nl just because people expect brake lights to come on when going down hill even if you are actually increasing speed does not mean they should come on. It gives no useful information to the driver behind you. Since brake lights do not indicate the intensity of the braking, brake lights when going downhill with ICE actually can mask your actions a bit, and reduce the raction time of someone behind you if you go from dragging the brakes to hold speed downhill to pressing them fully to slow or stop.
@je-martin and everyone else really, I still don't understand why you guys think the brake lights come on often. Check the car's display when you press the 'T' icon (it shows the status of the car's brake lights). You will notice that the brake lights only come on when the rate at which you are slowing is similar to the effect of pressing the brake pedal in an ICE. They do not come on too often.
If they are coming on often for you, it means that you are pressing down and letting up on the accelerator too much and too often. In an ICE car, this would be like constantly hitting the brake pedal whenever you want to slow down at all, rather than easing of the accelerator some to slow more gradually.
The brake lights work perfectly as is. Learn how to control the car with just the accelerator.
I was speculating what one could do with "break" lights. After a crash, they come on? ;p
My wife, following behind, says brake lights do not go on when I am in Low Regen mode. The regen is gentle enough that the accelerometer does not activate.
You are still able to slow, but with less aggressiveness. If you allow room and slow with regen and no brakes, you do not lose any of your regen power, you just have to plan ahead and keep more distance. Or use the brakes.
@olanmills Safe driving is about predicting the future a few seconds ahead. I would say expectations are everything. Just my 2c.
Yes, "drive to where the hole will be." (A modified hockey quote from the Great Gretzky; "Skate to where the puck will be.")
@olanmills - 120 KW/h regen? I only have a maximum of 60 KW/h regen (the limit of the display even when nothing is happening). Has anyone else noticed this difference or know what options cause it? I have a single charger, 60 KW model. Does the twin charger get you 120 KW/h regen or is it a 85 KW model?
I can't say I miss it (never having it), as the regen works great.
If twin charger gets you 120 KW/h regen, I wonder if it improves the system efficiency. I guess only Tesla would have the numbers, but if it does improve the system efficiency, it might be a reason to get the twin chargers.
@Frank2 - Does the inverter even play a role when not charging? The car can put 320KW into the motor (per the display) but only 60KW on regen (on my P85, single inverter)
@Frank2, the increments seem to increase exponentionally, every major tick is double the value of the last.
The -60 kW tick is not at the end of the guage, so I assume that the very end, which is not marked, is -120 kW.
Sorry if that caused any confusion. I do have the twin chargers, but I think the guage display looks the same for everyone.
When going down a steep hill at constant speed, the brake lights will come on if you are using sufficient regen to keep speed. Even though you are not changing velocity, part of the acceleration due to gravity will be acting in your forward direction. Assuming Einstein was right this is indistinguishable from actual acceleration (deceleration in this case).
You are continuously changing velocity from free-fall. Partly the road pushing up, partly the resistance of the wheels to "free-wheeling" (supplied by the drive-train and/or brakes). Just don't continuously try to figger "which leg comes after which"; you'll end up flipped, in the ditch. :D
Always wondered why cars don't have yellow lights for when you lift off the gas (battery.)
Because, most folks speed up when they see a solid yellow-light ;-)
@olanmills - Thanks for the clarification about 120 KW regen marker. I'm fairly sure I've never seen more the 60 KW of regen, but I'll have to try it out again and see if I can get it to go beyond the 60 KW tick.
In thinking about it more, I don't see the single/twin chargers being used for regen. These are only rated for 10 KW each, so if you have 60 KW of regen on a single charger car setup, it seems the charger would not be able to handle it.
The chargers aren't used for regen. This is accomplished by the inverter (now turned rectifier).
Thanks @olanmills. Will take a look. From my understanding the drive inverter is the thing that takes care of AC/DC conversion for both propulsion and regen. The single or twin chargers are only used for charging and play no part in regen.


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Dining Table with Sparkle Aplenty
Nothing says autumn like rich, warm colors, and interior designer Betsy Speert's approach to decorating makes the most of the seasonal palette. In this dining room, Betsy extracts deep jewel tones from the sumptuous paisley velvet that covers the walls, and she uses those colors as the driving force for a table that is luxurious but not overblown. Intense emerald, ruby, and amber hues leave no question that this intimate dinner party will glisten.
Betsy believes that visual harmony is the key to elegance. "There is a movement to mix things up and do something that is eclectic," she explains. "But eclectic doesn't mean that just anything can go together. Here, the jewel tones work perfectly with the paisley."
A red-and-black china pattern with gold ornamentation also complements the colored stem-ware. The wood of the table is too beautiful to cover, so Betsy chooses simple linen placemats in soft gold rather than the standard tablecloth.
A sparkling crystal chandelier and formal tableware are usually accompanied by traditional floral arrangements. Instead, the designer flanks a boxwood-filled antique cachepot with large pieces of coral . The result: a statement that is striking in its simplicity.
Rich colors can get too dark if you don't throw in some light and sparkle. Use brilliant, jewel-toned glassware that will add depth and reflect light. The layering of patterns on a table also adds interest.
I love finding beautiful jewelry at junk and antiques stores, but I don't love to wear it," says Betsy Speert. "Incorporating collections into table schemes is a great way to display those finds that you wouldn't use otherwise."
For this table, Betsy customized each setting by wrapping a beaded necklace around a cocktail napkin layered over a dinner napkin. The same could be done with jeweled vintage brooches or the elastic bracelets set with semiprecious stones that are now the rage.
Photography: Keller + Keller

subset: commoncrawl


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A BlankTV Premiere Presentation:
Them County Bastardz - "In the County"
Artist Bio:
Them County Bastardz keep it simple! They are local dudes from Essex County who are in it to make old school metal with back forty rock and having fun while doing it!
Formed in 2013 and based in Leamington, ON (an hour south of Windsor/ Detroit area) these Canadian rednecks are headbanging heavy riffs with heavy lyrics to give insight to their county life style.
Their album 'Sick Daze' released on February 24, 2015 via Smokehouse Records tells the story of life in the county, with tracks such as their fan favorite 'Drive By' to heavy hitters such as 'Bastard' to 'Rise Up'. Inspired by true stories and experiences, their seven track debut is about county living so crack open a beer, get ready to rock out and have a good time!
The band features Andrew Watson on vocals, Mike Rennie on rhythm guitar, Tyler Wickham on bass, Jim Kay on drums and Brien Alexander on lead guitar.
Fact about album title = Sick Daze is when you take a Monday off work because you are still feeling the weekend fun.
About The Video: Living life 'In The County', Director Name: Chris Towle
>> Get music by Them County Bastardz from iTunes, BandCamp, and Smokehouse Records NOW! <<
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LEBANON — The Lebanon North Berwick Baptist Church will be holding the last, for 2012, pancake and waffle breakfast on Saturday, Nov. 10 from 7 to 10 am. This will be at Little River Road in Lebanon, Maine, 2 miles from Route 202.
All are welcome. There is no charge, but we will accept donations to our mission teams. Please come and join us.
Choose the plan that's right for you. Digital access or digital and print delivery.


text: FOR SALE: Five brand-new RadioShack (made by Motorola) BTX-128 handheld UHF business band radios. Two channels, 1 watt power with programmable subaudible (CTCSS) privacy tones and selectable for any two of eight business frequencies (464.500, 464.550, 467.7625, 467.8125, 467.850, 467.875, 467.900, and 467.925 MHz). Currently, Channel A in each radio is preset to 464.550 MHz and Channel B is preset to 464.500 MHz (both itinerant business channels). You can set Channels A and B to any of the eight frequencies available. All radios are brand new and never used and in original boxes and packaging. Radios come with chargers, batteries and antennas. Original value of all five radios is more than $500. Package deal for all five radios (will not sell less than all five): $175. USPS shipping is available for an additional $22. Review the owners manual for these radios here:http://support.radioshack.com/support_electronics/doc64/64742.pdf. Photo also can be seen here: https://sites.google.com/site/scancomm/photos/BTX-128.JPG


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NEW YORK - The desire to produce a quick documentary on Olympic runner Oscar Pistorius and the shooting death of his live-in girlfriend has led to a new partnership between two television networks.
The Investigation Discovery Network on Sunday will premiere a special, "Beauty & The Blade Runner," about the South African athlete and his role in the shooting death of model Reeva Steenkamp. ID is making the special with the help of NBC News and that company's Peacock Productions.
ID even coined a new phrase to describe the quick specials, calling them instamentaries.
People close to both Pistorius and Steenkamp talk on the special, which examines evidence in the case.


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by: all1knew
Description: Hello all,
Here's your chance to pick up a nice pre-war belt buckle.
$69.99Includes free shipping within the United States & I don't charge PayPal fees like the other guys!
If this sale is outside of the US we can split the shipping.
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War Relics Militaria sales


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DIY Minions Costumes Photo 2 of 10
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This homemade costume for kids entered our 2015 Halloween Costume Contest.
A word from Judith, the 'Minions' costume creator:
These costumes are hand made i made them myself and the fire fighter minions lights actually spin and light up just like the movie. When we went trick or treating we kept getting stopped and... Read more »


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drubie wrote:matilda5 wrote:How do you explain/constrain/ to your other half the point that you NEED 5 bikes to ride and a further 5 donor bikes for backup?
- bring em in after dark
Dismantle them quickly. An incremental change in the pile of frames or box of bits is much harder to notice than a whole rusty old bike.


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The CM17a is stupid because your PC must always be on to run a x10 command at a certain time.
Do you have CM17a that will turn x10 devices on and off on its own? It stores the x10 commands that are executed at a particular time daily/weekly without another controller? If so, tell me how... Do you know what CP290 is?


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The Kenwood HS-5 deluxe communications headphones are engineered and tuned for radio communications purposes to provide distinctive voice sound (150-4000 Hz -6 dB). They are supplied with removable foam-type ear pads. They are also supplied with a second set of leatherette pads with a cavity in the center. It is easy to change the pads.
Black metal and plastic. 8 Ohms. With ¼ inch, mono plug and 6.6 foot (2m) non-coiled cord. Weight is 0.77 Lb. (350 g).
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I usually wear flip flops during the day and chucks at night (stored in our locker). This year I have f-ing arch issues so we'll see...probably from wearing the flip flops and chucks!
I usually wear flip flops during the day and chucks at night (stored in our locker). This year I have f-ing arch issues so we'll see...probably from wearing the flip flops and chucks!
nike free walks... most comfortable shoes ive ever had...and i need em cuz im a fat fuck...
so comfortable! prolly gonna get vibram shoes for coach as these are meant specifically for training.
bought these mephisto's, love them, most comfortable shoes ever:
Can the Sanuks be worn without socks? I was also thinking maybe some Keen sandals or Keen sneakers?
My very first Coachella - Weekend 1...Woot! Bonnaroo June 2012
Prefer casual sneakers for Coachella/concerts, sporting events, and general use. Have exclusively been wearing Penguin the last five or so years for their style and comfort.
Rainbow sandals in the summer.
Only wear italian black leather with buckles for formal occasions or business meetings.
Basic, even generic, basketball and hiking shoes.
Need to buy motorcycle boots, but have just been cheaping out by using the hiking ones.
vibram 5 fingers all day
New ones
Coachella 2002-2019
Trainers and running shoes are highly recommended!!! even if they look funny, who gives a fuck! comfy over styly any day
I think my Kid Robot x Havaianas Flippys have one more fest left in them. Has anyone ever tried a low natural soft moccasin like a Yuketen, I'm curious if that's a really bad idea? I'm looking for a stylish alternative to flip flops, but I absolutely refuse to don espadrilles/Toms.
Years Attended:
I always wear flip flops, and bring sneakers for night. But my feet always get stepped on. I think I may try wearing ankle boots during the day this year.
These are pretty handy: IronManBoots.jpg
Chucks, sanuks, and maybe flipflops.
Roos with dr sholls
I wear da shoes wit da laces on da actual shoe, in da plane, or at the show with the bands and carnival round e round.


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Palmetto Sun Balloons, a family run hot air balloon company in South Carolina, will be conducting a Hot Air Balloon Ground School for general aviation private and commercial pilots the weekend of Feb. 25-26.
The school will be held at the Runway Café at Greenville Downtown Airport (GMU) beginning at 8 a.m. each day.
The FAA written test will be available on Sunday for $150 at Greenville Aviation for those wishing to take it. The cost of the class is $200 for students and $100 for people wishing to receive refresher training. The registration fee includes all materials.
The Palmetto Sun Balloon staff has been in ballooning since 1981 and has a combined flight time of over 5,000 hours in balloons and fixed wing, general aviation aircraft. They have flown for major sponsors such as Ziploc, Coors and Re/Max and local sponsors such as WESC and WSPA. They have instructed many students from ground training all the way through their commercial licenses and have a perfect safety record.
For more information: PalmettoSunBalloons.com or 864-580-0026
People who read this article also read articles on airparks, airshow, airshows, avgas, aviation fuel, aviation news, aircraft owner, avionics, buy a plane, FAA, fly-in, flying, general aviation, learn to fly, pilots, Light-Sport Aircraft, LSA, and Sport Pilot.


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As we clear the worst of winter but realize summer is still months away, Canadians begin their annual search for hot destination deals.
Maui, Dominican Republic and the Bahamas are always popular. Heck, even Mexico with its horrendous crime news still draws tourists in search of a tan.
But this year, why not embrace all that is white?
Save the airfare for a really good spring splurge closer to home where you don't have to worry about foreign exchange or taco tummy.
With temperatures hovering above zero and abundant snow, now is the perfect time to explore Banff National Park and Lake Louise.
If you haven't been in years, except to hit the slopes at Sunshine or Louise, take the time to reacquaint yourself. There are plenty of activities, from superb cross-country skiing in track-set trails to snowshoeing, skating and even rocketing down the ski hill in a rubber tube at Norquay. (Even if you're a wuss it's a blast!)
Norquay has mid-week, two-for-one deals starting at $69 and on certain Thursdays you can ski or tube for an unbelievable $2. The last two Toonie Thursdays are March 21 and April 11.
If you want to be close to all the action, stay at Sunshine Mountain Lodge for three nights and your fourth night and fourth day of skiing are free.
Many Banff hotels have early spring deals ranging from discounted nights to free days which make for an affordable long weekend. If you want a real treat, take advantage of specials at the Fairmont Chateau Lake Louise.
Most Calgarians have at one time wandered through the opulent lobby, maybe checked out the February ice sculptures or even experienced the magic of Christmas here. But to truly soak up the luxury, stay at least one night.
Spend the day outside in the fresh air on skis or snowshoes, then relax in the steam room or spa. Enjoy a meal worthy of any five-star restaurant in the richly renovated Walliser Stube and sleep like a baby on silky soft sheets. Attention is paid to every detail, down to the Canadian-made toiletries and fluffy robe in your room. The staff here treat guests like royalty even if you're just escaping from the city for a day.
So if you don't have the time or cash for Costa Rica or Cuba, a Banff break may be the answer. It won't colour your skin but it will clear your mind.
Try to time your getaway with some of these upcoming activities in the area.March 29-31: The Easter Bunny will make an appearance at Lake Louise over the Easter long weekend.
April 13: Get creative with cardboard for the annual Cardboard Box Downhill Derby. Using only cardboard, string, tape and glue, build the fastest sled in town! Prizes will be given for top three times and the best three designs. Get a team of 1-4 people together and out-design, outwit and out-sled your competition.


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Brad Keselowski, driver of the #2 Miller Lite Dodge, won for the first time at the Monster Mile winning the AAA 400 on Sunday.
Brad Keselowski used superb fuel management, and perhaps a little luck, to win the AAA 400 Sunday afternoon at Dover Downs International Speedway.
Keselowski claimed his second checkered flag in the last three races, and his first such victory at the Monster Mile.
Kyle Busch led the majority of the race, but like many others, he didn't have enough gas to last down the stretch. After Busch fell out of the lead, Jeff Gordon and Keselowski went head-to-head through the final 10 laps, but the #2 car was able to hold off Gordon for the win.
With the win, Keselowski becomes the point leader for the Sprint Cup Championship. It's his fifth win of the season after winning four races combined coming into this season.
Jimmie Johnson, one of many drivers who weren't able to make the final push due to lack of fuel, finished 4th and stands 5 points behind Keselowski in the Chase for the Cup. Behind Keselowski and Johnson are Denny Hamlin, Clint Bowyer and Tony Stewart who round out the rest of the top 5 in the Sprint Cup standings with seven races to go.


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A Town Meeting article on building heights could help simplify the process of flood-proofing buildings for Marshfield residents and business owners.
A Town Meeting article on building heights could help simplify the process of flood-proofing buildings for Marshfield residents and business owners.
The article would allow those who are flood-proofing their structures to measure building height from the base flood elevation of their property, identified in the Federal Emergency Management Agency flood maps, instead of from the height of the adjacent ground, said Karen Horne, Planning Board chairman.
"It helps the homeowners by eliminating some of the red tape with flood proofing their homes," Horne said.
The Planning Board brought the article forward with the aim to provide a workaround to the town's restriction on building height for flood-proofing homeowners.
Currently, houses cannot be more than 35-feet tall in Marshfield without a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Flood-proofing buildings above base flood elevation can push homes beyond that limit. Measuring building heights from the base flood elevation to the roof would alleviate the need for a variance in that case, Horne said.
For non-elevated buildings, the building height measurement would remain from the adjacent ground to the roof.
"For the flood-proofed building, the total height from the ground to the roof may be over 35-feet, but the building height as measured by the article definition would be under 35-feet," Horne said.
Even under the proposed article, any building that exceeds 35 feet after measuring from the base flood elevation would still need a variance from the Zoning Board, she said.
Former Town Planner Paul Halkiotis said at the joint Advisory Board/Selectmen public hearing on March 25 that the article was designed to make flood proofing easier for homeowners.
"With increased base elevations on FEMA flood maps, those people trying to protect their homes are hitting the top of that 35-foot height limit," Halkiotis said. "We want to make it easier for homeowners and businesses to flood proof their buildings."
The article would also establish a definition of building height for Marshfield. The town's current zoning bylaws do not include a definition of building height, Horne said.
"Essentially the article has no effect unless a structure is being elevated for flood-proofing," Horne said.
Follow Lisa Kashinsky on Twitter @MarshfieldLisa.


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Course News & Downloads
- Bear Mountain Golf and Country Club - Mountain Course Overview Page
- Bear Mountain Golf and Country Club - Mountain Course Scorecard
- Stellar field of PGA TOUR Champions stars set to tee off today in the Pacific Links Bear Mountain Championship on the Nicklaus-designed Mountain Course
- Pacific Links International Announces Partnership With Bear Mountain Golf Resort and Spa In Victoria, British Columbia
- Weir wins $270,000 in Telus Skins
- Camilo Villegas and Fred Couples Added to Field For 2010 Telus World Skins Game
- Ian Poulter and Retief Goosen Round Out the Field For 2010 Telus World Skins Game
- Westin Bear Mountain Victoria welcomes Telus World Skins Game
- Mike Weir headlining 2010 TELUS World Skins Game
- Bear Mountain doubles its pleasure
- TELUS World Skins Game coming to Victoria and Bear Mountain Resort
- Bear Mountain adds a gentler touch
Bear Mountain Golf and Country Club - Mountain Course News
June 3, 2009
Bear Mountain adds a gentler touch
Don't be lulled into complacency, though: this Victoria resort's new course is no pushover
By Brad Ziemer, Vancouver Sun
VICTORIA -- Bear Mountain already had its beast. Now it's got a beauty.
The Victoria resort's new Valley course opened for public play this week and the best way to describe it is as a kinder, gentler version of the original Mountain layout.
Of course, kinder and gentler is a relative term. The Mountain course is rated as British Columbia's toughest track. Its slope rating from the back tees is 152 and without getting too technical that basically means anyone not a scratch golfer teeing it up from back there figures to be a whimpering wreck by the time their round is over.
The Valley course is sloped at 135 from the tips, so it is far from a pushover. But the fact is it's much more playable than its original sister course and Bear Mountain boss Len Barrie says that is no coincidence.
"One of the knocks we had early on was that it was too hard for everybody," Barrie says. "But we couldn't do it all at once. This is a lifetime project and I think we now have something to offer everyone.
"The Valley course is made for everybody to really enjoy. It was really built for the everyday player. If you want to beat yourself up, we've got the Mountain course which is rated as the second hardest course in Canada."
With five sets of tees, the par-71 Valley course can play anywhere from 4,674 to 6,807 yards. That makes it a full 400 yards shorter than the Mountain layout.
But it's more than length that sets the Valley course apart from the Mountain.
Although tree-lined, the Valley's landing areas are for the most part extremely generous. You don't stand on the tee wondering how on earth you are going to find the fairway.
Also, many of the Valley's tee boxes are elevated and you play down toward the hole. That makes the course play significantly shorter than its yardage.
The Valley course is set at between 300 and 400 feet above sea level. The Mountain course, by comparison, rises as much as 1,100 feet above sea level. So there's not quite as much up and down, although a power cart is a necessity.
The real challenge on the Valley course comes on its huge greens. They are full of undulations and that would be my only criticism of the course. Some of them are just too severe. Chances are, you will be left with at least one or two near impossible putts. One of my playing partners, who carries a low double-digit handicap index, shot one of the rounds of his life -- an 80 -- but had to endure six three-putts.
If the guy setting the pin positions happens to be in a bad mood the day you play, you could be in for a long, frustrating round.
But there is so much to like about the Valley course. There are some truly unique holes and the extensive bunkering is very impressive. The bunkers have a minimalist look to them, with jagged edges and rough around the borders. They fit the natural surroundings wonderfully.
There are creeks and lakes to play across and impressive rock outcroppings to avoid. A couple of holes feature huge solitary boulders near the green.
The opening of the Valley course gives Bear Mountain the distinction of having 36 holes -- 37 if you count the extra bonus par 3 hole on the Mountain layout -- of Nicklaus Design golf. Jack Nicklaus and son Steve did the Mountain course, while the Valley layout was a Nicklaus Design Group production.
The Valley course cost $20 million to build, with much of that spent to blast 350,000 cubic meters of rock. Two fish ladders were built to help trout navigate their way through the course.
The addition of a second course should help make Bear Mountain a true golf destination resort.
"You can come here for a three-day weekend and you're not bored," says Barrie, the former NHL player who has about a dozen past and present NHL stars as his partners. "We have got a (Westin) hotel, five different restaurants, we have a wine cellar, we have two spas, you've got 37 holes of golf, a Nicklaus Academy that will be ready to go next spring. I think we have tried to cover it all."
That Nicklaus Academy will be set up on the newly opened three-acre driving range that is just a mid-iron away from the Bear Mountain pro shop. That leads us to yet another tree story involving Barrie, who is now part-owner of the NHL's Tampa Bay Lightning.
In was back in the fall of 2001 that Barrie, who lived behind the third green at nearby Royal Colwood Golf Club, had 28 trees that he thought were on his property removed to provide him with more sunlight for his backyard and a better view. It turned out those trees were on Colwood's property and Barrie had to pay damages and was turfed from the club. Barrie then stumbled upon the Bear Mountain property, purchased 1,300 acres and built his own course.
Barrie had another run-in with trees last year when he decided he wanted to clear some timber for his practice facility. He required regulatory approval, but that seemed to be taking forever. Barrie noticed that the maximum fine for tree removal was $10,000 and he did the arithmetic in his head. He knew the timber he wanted to remove would fetch him well into six figures. Out came the chainsaws and Barrie went down to the local government office where he happily paid his $10,000 fine.
"I think they have now changed the rules," Barrie says with a smile.


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Customer Reviews
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Executive Wach: Music Business Association, STIM, ole, Fender Musical Instruments Corporation, LOUD, Primary Wave MusicMusic Biz Chairman Steps Down; STIM CEO Appointed; ole GM of Creative L.A.; Fender Brand Executive VP; Mackie APAC Product Specialist; Primary Wave Music Snr VP of Creative/Head of Sync
Rachelle Friedman Steps Down as Music Business Association Chairman
After an unprecedented seven terms as Chairman of the Music Business Association (Music Biz), formerly known as NARM and digitalmusic.org, Rachelle Friedman, Co-Founder and President of J&R Music & Computer World, has stepped down from the association's Board of Directors.
"I'm sad to leave the Music Biz Board but happy to see the organization in such a good place as I retire," said Friedman. "Each and every year, we were able to nurture the next generation of music industry movers and shakers with our Scholarship Foundation, honor the best and brightest artists and executives with our annual Music Biz awards, launch incredibly successful traveling series such as the Music Startup Academy and Entertainment and Technology Law Conference, and realign the entire organization to better reflect our ideas for the future with our rebrand to Music Biz. I'm confident that the association will continue to reach new heights in the years ahead."
Friedman and her husband Joe founded J&R Music & Computer World in 1971 in downtown New York City, turning it into one of the most important independent retailers in music history. She joined the then-NARM board in 1996 and has presided over many of the association's biggest advances, including its rebranding from NARM and digitalmusic.org to Music Biz in 2012. For her efforts, Friedman was named to Billboard's Women in Music list in 2011 and received the Independent Spirit Award from Music Biz (then NARM) in 2011.
Karsten Dyhrberg Nielsen Appointed STIM CEO
Sweden-based music creators' rights organization STIM appointed Mr. Karsten Dyhrberg Nielsen as CEO. Dyhrberg Nielsen is at present CEO of Nordic copyright management organization NCB, Nordisk Copyright Bureau, as well as its subsidiary NMP, Network of Music Partners.
Sweden-based music creators' rights organization STIM announces the appointment of Karsten Dyhrberg Nielsen as new CEO. Danish citizen Dyhrberg Nielsen succeeds former STIM CEO Kenth Muldin, who stepped down last February. At present, Karsten Dyhrberg Nielsen is CEO of Nordic copyright management organization NCB (Nordisk Copyright Bureau), based in Copenhagen, Denmark. NCB manages recording and copying rights, and is owned by STIM and its counterparts in Denmark, Finland and Norway. Dyhrberg Nielsen has served as NCB CEO since 2008, and has since 2012 also been CEO of its subsidiary NMP (Network of Music Partners), which is owned by NCB and PRS for Music.
During the coming months, Karsten Dyhrberg Nielsen will continue to serve in his previous position at NCB and NMP, as the Boards of Directors of each organization decide on how to structure future management. Karsten Dyhrberg Nielsen plans to take office in Stockholm, Sweden, during early August. Until that time, STIM interim CEO Alfons Karabuda will remain in charge.
ole Hires Leo V. Williams as General Manager of Creative (Los Angeles)
ole, one of the world's foremost rights management companies, has hired Leo V. Williams IV as General Manager of Creative (Los Angeles). Williams will be responsible for heading up ole's Los Angeles Creative functions, reporting directly to Robert Ott, Chairman and CEO.
Williams began his career as an A&R consultant to record companies such as Hollywood Records, where he assisted with various projects, including Jesse McCartney's Departure album, which spawned three Billboard Hot 100 hits in "Leavin'," "How Do You Sleep?," and "It's Over." He got his start in music publishing in 1999 when he joined U.K.-based Notting Hill Music, where he helped expand the company's presence in the U.S. market, allowing them to open an office there in 2002. He then joined L.A. Reid's joint venture Hitco Music Publishing and Windswept Holdings LLC, where he progressed to be VP Creative-Urban and then SVP/Head of Creative with Bug Music. Williams then served as Senior Vice President of Creative for BMG Chrysalis through 2012.
Fender Musical Instruments Corporation Promotes Richard Mcdonald To Executive Vice President, Fender Brand
Fender Musical Instruments Corporation has promoted industry veteran Richard McDonald to Executive Vice President, Fender Brand. The move represents a larger strategic shift that improves alignment and better unifies all aspects of the Fender brand under one executive. McDonald's responsibility now expands beyond Fender electric guitars, amplifiers and pro audio equipment, to also include Fender acoustic products and Fender accessories, allowing the brand to be optimized for growth.
McDonald most recently served as Senior Vice President, Fender Brand, and has been with the company in a variety of key positions since 1993, rising from an entry-level position to his current executive role. Among his many accomplishments at FMIC, McDonald served as Fender amplification and audio marketing manager (1997 - 2000) and vice president of electric guitars (2000 - 2002), an especially creative period during which he was instrumental in developing some of Fender's most successful products. Prior to joining Fender, McDonald was a successful touring guitarist and Fender endorser.
LOUD Appoints Raymond Tee as Mackie APAC Product Specialist
LOUD Technologies' Music Gear Group has announced the appointment of Raymond Tee to the position of Mackie APAC Region product specialist. Based in Malaysia, Tee joins LOUD with eleven years' experience in the live sound industry and an advanced engineering diploma in electronics. Prior to LOUD, Tee worked as Operations Manager for one of the largest rental companies in Malaysia, Singesen Technical Production Sdn Bhd. He also held positions with Harman Malaysia as an application engineer, as well as in pro audio distribution. Tee will report to Rohan Smith, LOUD director of APAC Music Gear sales.
"We are delighted to have Raymond join the LOUD team at this very exciting time for product innovation across the Mackie portfolio, and the corresponding growth in the APAC Region," remarked Smith. "Raymond will add another dimension to our Mackie distributor support capabilities, and is further evidence of our continued investment in region-wide partnership and market development. This new role will ensure we provide the fastest-possible in-region support to our partners' training, technical and customer engagement activities, and to fully drive the rollout of some revolutionary Mackie products in the coming months."
Primary Wave Music Promotes Marty Silverstone to Senior VP of Creative/Head of Sync
Primary Wave Music, a leading independent music marketing, talent management, and music publishing company, has promoted top executive, Marty Silverstone, to Sr. VP of Creative/Head of Sync. Based in Primary Wave's L.A. office and formerly the VP of Creative/Head of Film & TV, where he focused on film and TV placements, Silverstone will now oversee the entire sync department including film, TV, advertising, video games, and new media. As a result of this recent promotion, he will also focus on new catalog acquisitions and artist signings.
Part of the Primary Wave team for over four years, Silverstone has driven sync activity in all media with major placements in film, TV and advertising campaigns for artists such as Hall & Oates, Kurt Cobain, Steven Tyler, Def Leppard and Chicago. Recent placements include writer/artist L.P. on Homeland (Showtime) and CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (CBS); cover version-uses of Nirvana's iconic "Come As You Are" in both Private Practice (ABC) and the SyFy Network's Defiance; as well as original theme and music score for projects such as The Fight Game (HBO) by The Boxer Rebellion. Additionally, Silverstone has distinguished himself from others in his field by working closely with key music supervisors, writers, and directors to facilitate early stage collaboration, resulting in unique music integrations. Recent examples include Graham Parker's extensive role in Judd Apatow's This is 40, the band Chicago in the HBO film Clear History, and most recently, a successful integration for the emerging artist RIVVRS on NBC's About a Boy.
Related News from Mi2N: » Karsten Dyhrberg Nielsen Appointed STIM CEO» Ole Hires Leo V. Williams As General Manager Of Creative (Los Angeles)» Fender Musical Instruments Corporation Promotes Richard Mcdonald To Executive Vice President, Fender Brand» LOUD Appoints Raymond Tee As Mackie APAC Product Specialist» Primary Wave Music Promotes Marty Silverstone To Senior VP Of Creative/Head Of Sync» Rachelle Friedman Steps Down As Music Business Association Chairman
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Things you love and loathe about record reviews
Was having a discussion last night with some DiS writers about writing reviews, and the things other people do that irk us or that we worry we do that really piss off other people.
I guess a lot of the time I write some things knowing it will rub certain people up the wrong way. Not really in a trolling sense, but moreso because I hate the idea of compromising my writing for the sake of being agreeable. Perhaps that makes me a shoddy writer, but I personally love writing that tells you as honestly as possible what someone thinks, and if that is breathless glee, then I'll probably be swept up by it and find myself listening to the album before I've finished reading the review. Enthusiasm - done right - can be really infectious.
Pet hate: words like sophomore
reviews that don't really tell you about the music but just serve
as an instrument for the writer to attempt to show off their writing skills.CillaCrack, waterwings, Icarus-Smicarus, sadpunk, Gorkys_Forever, Oissin_, theguywithnousername, DriftingSkeleton, furio, Kitchmo, dis-charge, xheathenx, Antelope, jontosh2001, colinzealuk, and ThisTemporaryLife this'd this
I know exactly what you mean
I think some people think it's pointless to write about what something sounds like in an era when you can hear everything at the tap of a mouse...
there's a difference between a reviewer having a distinct voice
and being able to convey the emotional connection or resonance they had with music, how it triggered something in them, why its deemed worthy or not
and having someone tell you nothing or little about the music itself, and getting lost in their own sense of themselves and their craft.
i could have worded this in more vitriolic terms, but it wouldn't really aid the point im trying to make.
i like reading reviews where there's more sense of passion for the music (or music in general) which is being written about rather than someone's passion for the writing (or the writing process) itself.
If there's a passion for the subject matter i can often excuse a lack of craft itself, as its the music im fundamentally interested in.
Exact opposite of this
Criticism is literature and I want to be entertained and moved by the writing. I don't give a flying fuck for boring biography or whether or not the reviewer likes a song per se.marckee, GoatmeatMF, Teeej, blisters, fuck_this_band, moker, automatik, incandenza_, and monoshono this'd this
Wholeheartedly agree
I appreciate that it's not always easy to write intelligently and lucidly about what something sounds like, then draw comparisons, give a little background, and inject a smattering of opinion, all whilst sounding 'professional', or even (and fuck this) 'academic'.
Reviews that manage this are worthy of some praise, sure. But really, I think that I can only love a review (so give the review an 8/10 or more) when the reviewer invests as much in their writing as they do in the music they're writing about, when they fucking cut loose and dance a bit. True, it doesn't always work out, and it can be arrogant, self-serving, and lead to downright awful prose, but I've started to feel recently that the risk is worth it for the times it gets pulled off. A writer can be as knowledgeable and skilled as you like, but unless there's some indication in their review of the ecstasy that music invokes(whether the writer loves or hates who they're writing about)then I'm never going to love it, it's never going to be any more than another dried-up A-Level textbook entry.JRNeasom this'd this
- japes this'd this
yes to conveying some sense of whether /I/ might like the music too
no to boring biography or dull descriptions.
Hate: Reviews that give a score that in no way correlates to the review itself
Huge disappointment from a band we've come to expect more from: 7/10.
I kinda wish more people were harsher with their scores. a 5/10 shouldn't be anything but a 'meh'.
Contributors - perhaps rightly so - get so angry when you turn a 8 to a 7 or a 7 to a 6, and it seems kinda crazy that they have their own idea of what these scores are, whereas everyone else seem to have this idea that all DiS reviews are equal. I struggle with calling anything a 10/10 (although I have done so with Blondes this year, and nearly did with Chromatics... although I'm slowly thinking the latter is a 10/10 too). I find harsh scores much easier to give, whereas others seem to think anything below a 6 is so terrible and lacking any merit. I'd give most things I hear 4/10, and only begin to mark upwards if it moves me. Anything that makes me curious enough to play it more than 10 times gets nearer a 6/10 and then anything that I start to realise is truly special moves toward the 7s and 8s. It's only when I think it's the pinnacle of a genre or one of the 50 greatest albums I've ever heard do I begin to shift toward the 9s and 10s.
There are a lot of albums I'd give a 9 or 10 to that DiS has given 6s and 7s to (Panic at the Disco's debut LP, for starters) and vice versa. It's an imprecise science, which probably means it's no science at all.
i'd agree that scoring is no science at all,
given the review is subjective, and the review based upon the first batch of listens may be entirely different to a review made by the same person when they were in a different headspace, or any other number of other factors outwith the music itself.
Scoring is shorthand really and personal opinion is that it holds more import than it really needs to or deserves to. It's just the roughest of outlines of what the rest of the review holds, (generally speaking).
I totally agree
10/10 is for all time classics only in my opinion. 9/10 is for the peak of the genre/truly innovating stuff. 8/10 is great music you know you're still gonna be listening to in a year. then 6/7 is good and 4/5 is tolerable to average. so many sites give every bloody album they review a 7 or above. it's ridiculous. they seem to think giving any album less than a 7 deems it as having no worth at all.
That's a knock on from game reviewing
where virtually everything scores 75%+
Remember Amiga Power?
Best mag ever. They had the same principle of scoring: a 50% meant exactly average, 80% meant bloody good, 90% was extremely rare. But in a market where 'average' games got 78% from other mags, AP seemed incredibly harsh.
9/10 approaching pinnacle of genre is how I see it too. For instance, Koi No Yokan is brilliant and I love it, but I'd give it 8/10 tops, not 9 or 10.
- Icarus-Smicarus this'd this
in fairness
they have panned almost everything they've released post-CODY.
or have they?
i double-checked and they haven't apparently. carry on
Ditto on 'sophomore'...
The tinymixtapes review of Instrumental Tourist is a classic example of pseudo philosophical nonsense masquerading as music writing. Whether it's boring or not, it's good to know:
i) what does it 'sound like' (glitchy, fuzzy, etc)
ii) who does it sound like (kindred spirits sort of thing)
iii) is it any good (subjective I know, but if it needs tunes, does it have them)
iv) would I like it if I like their other stuff or stuff by their kindred spirits
Reviews that suggest they're authoritative enough to assign 10s are annoying (e.g. the XX). To me, a 10 is something you award in retrospect after the music community has had time to assimilate a record, understand it in its context (cultural, social, political, whatever) and establish whether it something that stands the test of time. Pitchfork's Disintegration Loops 10 seems fair, after the event, but would it have been at the time, probably not.
Humour is good.
Novel approaches to reviews are good for a bit of variety (can't think of one off hand).
5 or six medium length paragraphs is good too.
Length discourse is a turn off.
Apologies for rambling. This is why I don't write music reviews.
discourse on length would be fun (see 'euphemisms' thread)...
you should read the quietus review for instrumental tourist...
Highpoint 'Racist Drone' is the album's hallelujah chorus of cultural violence, forlorn chords masking the cries of a diseased koto.
dis just ate half my comment...
here's the link:
and the above is a quote from the review not my own word (tbank god)
that's just amazing! What a guy...
If and when I picture audio, I liken it to architecture
That's incredible! A beautiful example of someone who can string a sentence together, but can't actually write. Loved this comment: 'I wrote shit like this in my AS English class'.
Here's my Hate of the Day:
'That's ultimately where quick collaborators for cash wind up, do they not?'
Do they not? We're impressed by his formal language, are we not? Especially the way he mixes registers - 'wind up' is colloquial, but 'do they not?' is formal! Incredible word control! He must speak better English than us and therefore be more intelligent. We should take his opinion Very Seriously Indeed, should we not?
That must be it: otherwise he's just trying to show off with pretentious high-register phrasing.
If and when I press Alt-F4, I liken it to smothering this twat with a pillow.
I recall posting a link to a review of the same by tinymixtapes
"I'm reminded of the famous scene from Koyaanisqatsi called "The Grid," which, like Instrumental Tourist, not only speaks to the microcosm that is consumerism and metropolitan life, but is also both mesmerizing and spiritual."
I think Tim Hecker attracts twattish writing like a turd attracts flies. I don't know who these journos think they're catering for.
I don't necessarily always like humour in reviews...
I mean, it's good when it works. But the only publication I've ever read that willingly tries to enforce humour is NME and most of the time it just isn't funny. Music is something that should be taken seriously, and so unless you manage to weave humour in and turn it into an aspect of your writing style that IS entertaining, I don't think it has a place.
I know what you mean
But mostly because a lot of people aren't very funny.
Then again, I adored J.R.'s Loutallica review http://drownedinsound.com/users/johneggfish/articles
It would be better if it was a full on piss take, but yes, brilliant writing.
obscure references
Review begins like 'there's an ancient sanskrit saying that goes...'
shut up
The word bingo
that exists solely for music and film reviews - it's a postrock record so 'epic soundscapes' and 'wall of noise' are in the first paragraph, it's folky so pastoral scenes need to be cujoured up, the inability of almost anyone to write a meaningful review of an electronic record... perhaps there just aren't enough superlatives sometimes :D
But yes with the above, if the writer has a particular axe to grind with an act then either don't let it shape the whole article or please articulate your grudgeful feelings better so we don't feel like we're reading a blog of your shit life with incedental music.
There is still a need for music reviews despite the 'product' being there for all to hear there and then. There's too much music to listen to out there and there is still a need for people who don't have time and budgets to get everything to fall back on a trusted critic for their opinion, especially when you don't know where the next great record is coming from (ooh, heard this on soundcloud, this band on bandcamp are great, reverbnation flagged up- scratch that last one actually).
I dunno
I quite enjoy reading someone giving an album a real slagging for reasons that are entirely personal and completely unrelated to what the album actually sounds like. I remember Everett True absolutely murdering Suede's Coming Up in MM back in 1996, purely because they symbolised the kind of stylised, glammed-up British pop that had blown his beloved grunge out of the water a couple of years previously. His review said little about the album & everything about the writer himself, and whilst I completely disagreed with it, it was great car-crash reading. Reviews should be subjective, not objective.andyvine, WhiteLightWhiteCity, and Caesurob this'd this
Fair point
Though from my perspective it was too much of self-indulgent writing that got Everett ostracised from the weeklies, that and the whole "my mate Kurt" in every article. There are masters at getting the personal balance, like Everett and Swells but a lot of bad imitators.
I've been reading the Lester Bangs book of articles recently, that guy knew how to write! The main thing I get out of it is the debunking of this myth that he slagged everything off, the writing in this book is amazingly inquisitive and naieve in its praise for a lot of it, which I just wasn't expecting. You tend to think of him as Mr Agreeable's dad...
Coming Up
Do you know where I can find that review? I really want to read it!
I just can't write electronic reviews
I don't know why. I've listened to loads of it in the last couple of years but for some reason. when I come to write about, tt just doesn't happen.
I mean, I even managed to review your band...
id find it difficult to review techno or house records
anything electronic of that ilk.
itd boil down to
as, for me, that's its function.
I'd probably have to fling some adjectives in to describe roughly what the sound is (heavy, moody, sexy, melancholic, raging, etc). it would hardly be enlightening, informative or entertaining but i can't see the point in writing 800 words on a techno track (for example) as its not particularly cerebral music at its core.
There's plenty of great writing out there on house and techno which would provide a counter-argument to your last, rather blase sentence.
links please
most of the interesting stuff to write about techno and house is for the most part proper spoddy stuff, the production, the process, synth sounds and effects, tracking the influences of the individual sounds used, how they've been manipulated, the topography and history of the genre and how it fits in with that.
Its a trainspotter paradise, but for most people who buy these songs on a single by single (12inch by 12inch, whatever) basis, it will come down to will this work in a set, will this make me or the punters move. And there's not a great breadth of material to pull from that.
basically it comes down to whether its a pure recommendation
in a review or you want to wank off and show to other spods how clever and knowledgable you are.
The expression "life-affirming"
Don't know why, it just gets right on my tits.emmettcruddas, krankenhaus, and monoshono this'd this
I'd love to know what the opposite is
I guess a record has never actually made someone commit suicide (but some have probably helped)
Have you ever listened to Pornography by The Cure
Or the Marble Index by Nico or The Holy Bible?
That sort of stuff is definitely the opposite of 'life affirming' (even though it might be excellent)
Perfume Genius
Is not life-affirming.
Just the words, really
Most people reviewing records see it strictly as a platform to show they own a thesaurus
Sounds like X shagging Y in a Z
eg "Track 7 sounds like Kraftwerk shagging Neil Young in a Moroccan souk".
Four blokes
grunting "Ja! Ja!", one bloke whining "Oh god no", and hundreds of blokes yelling angrily in Arabic/French.funkycow, rainmaker, WhiteLightWhiteCity, Infinite_Jest, kubrahhh, and SCROTUM this'd this
ive been to that club
would not go again.hitsville this'd this
Hate this
See also: it's something ON ACID, which mercifully died a death after that Bill Bailey sketch.
I do this in conversation
It's tremendous amounts of fun, although you're right, in reviews it's pretty awful.
I really dislike that thing (and, I'm sorry, but it might just be you who does this sean), where you write something in that crossed out (struck through?) font.
Is trying to indicate it was how your thought process went but you disregarded it? If so, why is it still there? I understand you're trying to show a realtime experience of the record and how it made you feel, but that's not what the review is, it's a summation of your thoughts. If that thought it now invalid and irrelevant, cut it. If it is still worth us reading about, leave it in. It's like putting ummmm in a written post to approximate speech, it's attempting sincerity but actually doing the opposite, it's just drawing attention to the artifice.
I know this is really minor and probably done by about two people and I'm usually a fan of 'experimental' things like this, but it just doesn't sit right with me.andyvine this'd this
I don't cross things out because it's part of my thought process
I do it so I can say two (often contradictory or somewhat contrary) things. Mostly I do it so I can say something really harsh, but not say it at the same time. For me it's just another - stylistic - way of using brackets and sub-clauses. I like to ramble. Sometimes that rambling is totally subbed away, but like with my Gaga review, it felt like the unedited nature of the blathering fit with the style, scope and length of the record. Sometimes writing perfectly succinct and snappy just doesn't fit the record you're writing about. And I have a bit of a thing about writing my reviews in a similar tone to the record (like my How to Dress Well review was annoyingly obtuse). I realise this makes me a massive cunt.
Fair play, you're entitled to your style and I admire the fact you're doing something different.
It's just my innate reaction to seeing it!
``...but that's not what the review is, it's a summation of your thoughts...``
says who boss? Neither of your solution conveys the imprecision and second-guessing indicated by the crossed-out words. Yeah it's a bit artsy or whatever, but it does communicate something that isn't quite done any other way.Caesurob this'd this
Unless you're creating a stream of consciousness the likes of which has never been seen in prose before,
all reviews must be something of a summation. I understand it's trying to convey imprecision and second-guessing, but I think there are other ways of doing that that are just as effective.
I don't have a passionate hatred of it, it just jars with me when I see it.
- WhiteLightWhiteCity, FilthyLittleCreep, and monoshono this'd this
- seedler this'd this
Sophomore's just an american expression
that younger British writers in particular tend to use because they've only read it in American reviews that are informed by a different cultural context. I mean, arguably the fact that we don't talk about sophomore years over here means that in a perverse way the scale of misapprehension of the word means that its meaning in British English really is 'a second album', but it looks rubbish and I always edit out of people's reviews. WHAT A FUCKING BORING POST.twicetwoequalsfour and Backbone this'd this
I read music reviews for the same reason I read book criticism
I want to see if there are ways of appreciating a record that I've missed, or legitimate criticisms that I hadn't thought of, or more basically, just to see if people feel the same way I do about something.
They're also useful for finding out extra info about the band, other bands doing similar things or helping to understand the context of the music - e.g. the Disintegration Loops story.
And finally I read reviews of records I don't know, because if they're written well enough, or make it sound like something I'd like (and get a high score) then I might go and listen to it, which has happened with Death Grips and Purity Ring this year.
When the writer goes off on a tangent and starts crowbarring personal anecdotes/details into a review.
Yeah, I tend to agree
but I know a few writers who do this really well. I think it's more fitting for blog-style writing really, or perhaps certain genres? For example, I think Oli at Sonic Router is great at this, using personal anecdotes to bring life to electronic music. There's only so many ways you can read descriptions of drum patterns before you fall asleep.no-class this'd this
I think this gets done, for the most part, very badly
because people who are now inexplicably 'writers' have grown up reading fantastic reviews with personal experiences incorporated. They've then made the half-boiled inference that 'personal experience=good review', and proceed to shoehorn a bunch of crap into their own reviews, which as a result come off self-indulgent and clumsy. On the other hand, if personal experience is used well, it adds a whole bunch to the character of both the review and its writer.
I blame Plan B / Careless Talk
I especially blame MissAMP for being such a revelation to read. I will never forget her piece about buying a Gonzales record and finding a used condom in the pocket of her jacket.
I feel much the same
about a bunch of stuff from Everett True's 'Live Through This', because I got it when I was fifteen and I thought it was the best thing ever. That said, reading his stuff on Collapse Board now just makes me feel a bit sad...
When said band gets descibed as other band 'on crack' or 'on acid'
Reviewers reviewing an album by a band they hate with the sole purpose of slagging it off
Even if it's total shit I want a bit of effort to enjoy it put in, not some vague references to the new album you've clearly only listened to once and the rest of the review being about all their older material being shit and the band being dickheads.
When it comes to reviews, there should be no rules at all other than being entertaining to read.
I personally find reviews that try to tell you what the music sounds like to be crushingly boring, and they are usually written by people who mistake description for insight, but there are no defined lines over which a good review mustn't step.TheoGB, Caesurob, whatisthewhat, andyvine, and twicetwoequalsfour this'd this
Most reviews (for me) are to inform a purchase...
so I think it's important to know what it sounds like (though not for a whole review)...it's good to be enlightened by a reviewer's interpretation of a record, but this is often something I'll only do after owning the record for a few weeks or months. Then the review serves a different purpose (along the lines of rainmaker's comments above).
Hate: Reviews with no point of reference
Give me an idea of what the Artist sounds like.Icarus-Smicarus and funkycow this'd this
I LOVE: reviews of records
I LOATHE: endless fucking meta-chat about record reviews.
Stop killing music, sean.
hes not killing music
hes killing music journalism
at least get your accusations framed correctly. :)
Reviews where the writer spends more time having
A go at the musicians teat tosh behaviour than telling you whether the album is any good.
COUGH - every single dis review of a smashing pumpkins album / re-release, and WU LYFs album review - COUGH
Not sure what teat tosh means?
writer referring to themselves as
this critic' or 'your critic
- no-class this'd this
It's a review, not a memoir. The whole 'it left this critic cold/your loyal reporter arrived at the venue 10 mins early' feel of some reviews makes writers sound kinda pompous and affected. I know reviews are rooted in personal context and experience, but I prefer reviewers that don't put themselves at the centre of everything they write.
Tell you what ground my gears recently - you using strikeouts in the Crystal Castles (III) review
You've got a backspace key if you think of something better to write, you know
I think reviews ought to be grounded
in the very boring: THIS IS WHO BAND IS, THIS IS WHAT ALBUM SOUNDS LIKE, AND THIS IS MY OPINION.
Then the writer may add reasonable stylistic flourishes around the basics. Respectfully, I disagree with Sean: there is NO PLACE IN PROFESSIONAL WRITING FOR RAMBLING. (Unless your name is Virginia Wolfe.) To my eyes, rambling reviews don't come across as being more authentic or honest. They just look sloppy and lazy.
A return to form
RRRAAARRRGGGHHH!!!moker this'd this
I hate it when the review
is not in line with my opinion. It means the reviewer is obviously a complete boob.
You know the worst reviews?
Those entirely pleasant and ok 6/10 records. Not without some merit, slightly forgettable and likely to be number 15 in your albums of the year. What the FUCK are you supposed to say about them. Eh?!?oh_gerardus_MERCATOR this'd this
or believe their opinion to anything more than simply an opinion.
Or kid themselves that they can be in anyway objective or rational.sadpunk, WhiteLightWhiteCity, and xheathenx this'd this
What aspect of it?
I'd have said it was a relatively self-evident statement. Giving your opinion on stuff is a fun thing to do and reading someone's opinions can be fun but all they are is opinions - there's not really anything there to take seriously; certainly there's nothing massively meaningful or important about the whole process as some critics try to kid on.
in some cases, serious/meaningful is the only way
as long as there's genuine insight and perhaps a shred of levity, it's fine.
and I hate a lot of sarcastic/jokey/self-effacing journalism.
Ah - that's not quite what I mean.
I mean critics who consider themselves to be uniquely qualified and able to understand film, music or art on a different level to non-critics and hence take their opinions too seriously rather than people who write in a jokey fashion.
i think it could do with a bit of qualification
i do recoil a slight bit sometimes at some of the more self-important/pretentious music criticism/critics out there, but you'd have to acknowledge that there's a bit of difference between giving your opinion on something and the more longform kinds of music criticism or articles that take a wider sociological or cultural perspective.
as well the very nature of the game surely is that you are taking it seriously to some degree if you're wasting your precious leisure hours typing out 500-word articles for no tangible reward or return. yeah it'[s not massively meaningful but are you saying that if a reviewer puts genuine effort/research into what they do or aims for genuine insight that they look a bit silly? i wouldn't agree
Sociological and cultural insight is fun and interesting to read of course
and that's absolutely fine if the reviewer wants to do that research and write it and I don't think that makes them look silly per se - if they want to it, it's up to them really. And I don't necessarily mean that everyone should be jokey or self-effacing reviews - or that people shouldn't take the work they're writing about seriously - of course they should.
I mean more when critics regard criticism or the fact they're writing criticism and socially or culturally important and place a great deal of importance in themselves as critics and arbiters of fine taste and judgement. They're people with an opinion - no more, no less. They're hopefully people who express their opinion well in writing and can be engaging and entertaining in doing so (hence why they get paid to write reviews in the first place) but that doesn't actually mean their opinions themselves should have more importance attached to them than anyone else.
If by this you're talking about
reviews that go around with a stick up their arse hammering on their opinion with backing it up in any meaningful or satisfying way, then I agree.
That said, I'm not sure about your above point that (broad sense) 'art' critics shouldn't consider themselves to be better qualified when it comes to their chosen form. If somebody reads books and literary criticism 14 hours a day, then I'll presume they're a better reader than me. Why can't we apply the same logic to music?
Because we can't honestly apply it to literature so why would we transport a claim that's demonstrably false to another medium too?
In what sense would it make them a better reader? What would that even mean?
Sure, they'd have knowledge of a wide range of books and probably be good at talking about the context of a book. But realistically critics aren't purely employed on the basis of the range of their knowledge alone - it'll also be whether their opinions fit in with the views and aspirations of the readership of a particular publication; someone could listen on loads of music and have an immense knowledge of the history and context of music but if their favourite music ever was, say, Chris De Burgh there's a fair chance few music publications would deem them appropriate to their readership. Plus there will of course be people with an intricate knowledge of films or books or music but choose to have a different career instead, or simply cannot write eloquently enough to become a critic.
But more fundamentally, however many books you've read, however well you state your opinions, it doesn't make your opinions more correct or more worthy than anyone else's. People enjoy something or they don't - it's pretty much an instinctive reaction (albeit one you'll later justify with reasons and explanations) and it's entirely entirely ludicrous to say one person's enjoyment is worth more than someone else's.
And - what's far worse, perhaps especially within art criticism - it alienates people and makes them feel art isn't for them because the self-declared experts try to pretend that they're the only people who can say if a piece of art is good or not. Which means they constantly hold up the works that reflect their own beliefs and interests and exclude the ones that do not creating a self-fulfilled prophesy of what' becomes 'canon' (at least for a time). To me the function of art is to express things, communicate and reach out to people and to turn int into an exclusive club for intellectuals utterly defeats the entire point.
Furthermore, it's easy to see from past history that critics views on what's good may well be utterly reversed in the future and are only correct within their own context. Look at the way people like Van Gogh and Blake were largely ignored by the critics of their day in favour of people who are long-since forgotten.
Yes, critics will have seen more of a particular medium and, yes, they will probably know more about similar artists and what to compare it to etc. But it's manifestly a misguided misconception to assume their opinions are in anyway more correct.
Ah - I never said the critic's opinions are more correct.
You're right, that would be elitist and depressing. To the best of my knowledge there's no amount of research that can alter the rightness of a person's opinion.
Here is the statement of yours I disagree with most strongly: "I mean critics who consider themselves to be uniquely qualified and able to understand film, music or art on a different level to non-critics and hence take their opinions too seriously."
You don't think a good reader exists? A person with a better understanding of the art form than another person? I'm wary of stating the obvious here, but we know the quality of being a good reader exists because we feel it as we read. I can finish reading a certain book and henceforth feel better qualified to tackle other books that previously I may have deemed beyond my best perception. I imagine most literary critics are better readers than me in the sense that I imagine I'm a better reader than most children. There are certain analytical skills we expect of critics and good readers - basic understanding of the text, analysis of literary context, analysis of intent, analysis of broader social influence - and you'd be hard-pressed to invent any kind of academic test of these skills that would be *better* answered by a child than a critic. It doesn't make their opinion more right, but by my definition it does make them better qualified.
I won't address the second paragraph - yeah, certain publications use critics with different frames of reference - because I don't think the presence of a known readership invalidates the critical qualification argument or in any way contradicts my opinion. In fact, it further helps measure a critic's degree of qualification by establishing a more specific framework by which to judge exactly what said readership requires. Again, it doesn't make the critic's opinion more right, but if they've been accurately deemed by their editor to have a broader knowledge-base and sense of perception on a given topic than the average reader (which is a primary goal for most critics, isn't it?) it does make them better qualified to express that opinion in that publication.
As for the Van Gogh/Blake argument, predicting how a work will be perceived in future is only one facet of criticism - if that - not the sole purpose. There's no need to devalue the entire form based on failure to fulfill a single criteria. All that said, I'm not sure that at the core of it we actually disagree. Feel free to prove me wrong.
this conversation looks boring.
Bullet points?whatisthewhat this'd this
I like it when they're written with a sense of humour
possibly a bit rose tinted, but it does feel like a dying art. There's a certain school - which DiS is as guilty of as anyone - of rant reviews being the only time people seriously attempt humour, but there's really no reason why you can't put a gag into a positive review, it's only a bunch of fucking musicians.
Yes yes yes
The po-faced music journalist. Taking something fun and that you love and turning into fucking academia. PISS OFF. Observer Music Monthly was so so guilty of this.
The phrase 'game-changer'
makes me fucking cringe like the mother of an outed paedophile. Over-used and past its sell-by date.
I like angry writing, as long as you can tell that there's some justification for the anger, a real indignance at the insulting naffness they've been presented with and a believable sense of deserving and demanding something better, rather than the mere desire to show off and try (fail) to be David Stubbs.
And reviews where you could tell that the writer didn't know what the hell to say about the record, felt totally out of their depth and just burbled something to fill the word count. I think lots of writers have written those reviews, and I guess depending on yr situation sometimes it's unavoidable but I'd rather not write the review at all, and ideally pass it to someone with a worthwhile opinion/understanding of the band or record, than churn out something rubbish for the sake of it.twicetwoequalsfour this'd this
the main issue I have with music reviews/ music writing in general
is that 99% of reviewers are not good writers
when somebody reviews an album and they clearly have no interest in that type of music
just seems like a waste of everybody's time.Lililololaure and -gen- this'd this
Scholars have a facebook advert
that reads "like at the drive-in covering the smiths".
I hate that kind of comparison, and it's also hugely inaccurate because they are no where near as good as at the drive-in covering the smiths, which by the way, sounds like this;
it seems like
a great deal of reviewers don't possess
adequate knowledge to provide accurate reference points, so they just draw tenuous comparison to the acts that they do know with any kind of superficial similarity.
Regviews that tell you all the band members names
and where they come from and how they formed.
...is fine up to a point, but there's nothing that bores me more than reading a review written by someone i'll never know, slinging his/her jizz all over the page like anyone should give a fuck. i like a few facts followed by a few personal interpretations of the music, that regardless of the writers opinion, has been elucidated in such a way that will give me an idea if i might like it or not. its not fucking rocket surgery.
Radiohead have really pushed the envelope with this record
No they haven't, they've made another album of self-indulgent electronica.
See also: the idea that music that dispenses with things like melodies, chord sequences and traditional song structures are unoriginal and derivative. Fuck off, so's everything.
The worst comment I ever read
was in a review of a George Michael album in Word, think it was about 2004. The reviewer didn't like the album's lack of melody & said something like "the most damning thing I can say about this album is that none of the songs could be played on an acoustic guitar". So fucking what? You could say the same about the entire discographies of Kraftwerk, Public Enemy or Miles Davis. So many reviewers are still in thrall to the Dylan-inspired singer-songwriter paradigm that they don't take anyone seriously until they've "gone acoustic" - look how much more critical kudos Nirvana got when they did Unplugged, as if Nevermind wasn't enough.
Writers who review Scott Walker albums
& begin with a lengthy discourse about his career history - Walker Brothers blah blah, bigger than the Beatles blah, nervous breakdown, Jacques Brel covers blah blah, Scott IV commercial disaster blah blah, working men's clubs, Nite Flights blah blah & so on. Every fucking album he releases, same thing, as if anyone reading a Scott Walker review in 2012 would be unaware of his history.
To be fair
In the time between Scott Walker albums, a whole generation of listeners can come of age who might not know who he is. The new one only being six years since the last throws this off a bit, but still.
Agreed that the 'potted history' approach is often a convenient way to reach a certain word count without having to talk about the record.
That's another thing about Scott Walker: his stuff takes time to process, and how do you say if it's 'good' or not? I would hate having to file a review after only hearing it for a couple of days - I wouldn't say I get The Drift even now.
So what do you do? You either fill the review with history, waffle about avant-garde atonalism or come clean and say 'I don't know, it was like a load of buzzing and wailing wtf. Prefer Pablo Honey'.
We should do a list
of facts about artists that reviewers always mention to pad out the word count.
For example
has anyone ever reviewed Def Leppard without mentioning their one-armed drummer, or reviewed Marianne Faithfull without referencing Mars Bars?
Future of the Left started after mclusky ended
So let's review mclusky's career while we're here!
Manics -> Richey
They'll never get out from under this, and probably rightly so: Richey is a huge part of who they are. But his story isn't always relevant to the record at hand (Journals for Plague Lovers aside). Loads of their reviews still get a little 4REAL nod in there somewhere.
New Order - Ian Curtis
...who died in 1980. But to this day you'll struggle to find a review of any of their albums or gigs that doesn't mention him.
There's this rapper Nas
Whose debut was called Illmatic. Let's talk about how good it was and how it moved hip-hop forward and how nothing he's done since was as good (or was it), how he lives in its shadow etc, then on the last paragraph say 'The new one is 69 minutes long and is pretty good I guess'.
Also Tupac was murdered
Which doubled his output
Just read this in a review
"Is it more like the crunchy peanut butter cousin of CocoRosie, or Joanna Newsome with tunes? No, neither."
Why is it that reviewers feel the need to constantly ask pointless rhetorical questions?
people usually don't know how to describe the music
"folktronica", "psych" - all those stupid bullshit terms. Just tell us - does it rock, is it Bon Iver crap, is it twerpy bleep stuff, hip hop bullshit. Hell, even those are dumb. Just link us to samples of the tracks, we'll figure it out for ourselves.ThirstyDog and Silentcommand this'd this
When writers knowingly revel in their "I'M A TOUGH MISANTHROPE WITH THE SWORD OF TRUTH"
Like...I'm going to RANT now!!1111 Rahhhhh!
and just sit waiting for bumlicks.
You're writing about indie music on the internet for fucks sake.
I barely read reviews.
All I need to know is "Is it out?" "Who is in the band?" and a very very rough description of what it sounds like in about one sentence. I can take things from there.
When reviewers review the artist
rather than the album. Bob Dylan is invariably the beneficiary of this, so occasionally is Tom Waits (look at the gushing reviews the awful Glitter & Doom live album received), and Nick Cave seems to have joined the pantheon too. It's almost as if they're afraid that, by correctly pointing out that a legendary artist's latest album is a bit crap actually, they'll be kicked out of the Serious Music Journalist club.
Pretending that a classic artist's new album is a RETURN TO FORM when it quite obviously isn't is related to this, with pretty much every Bowie album since the early 80s being prime examples.
Pretty much, yeah.
I'd imagine the Uncut offices need hosing down every time Dylan announces a new album.
the use of the word "wonderment"
which seemed to feature in every other record review for a while and nowhere else.
Any review that says
So and so are all XXX and YYY, like "Los Campesions! are all cardigans and racket". It's getting to "achingly beautiful" levels of annoying..
Reviews by males in their early 20s.
Reviews by people who have no life beyond posting on message boards such as this one, no perspective, littered with sweeping statements about things of which they know nothing.
I rarely read reviews on here because I feel I know who is writing them and the search by this person for meaning is utterly worthless; frustrated, rotten and self serving.
I'm all for playfulness in reviews because its just music. I love Wendy's singles reviews, that stuff is magic and has introduced me to so much music in a positive, funny and honest manner.calumlynn this'd this
Wendy's column frequently contains some of the best review-format music writing around, not just for being positive, funny and honest but exciting, smart and literate.
Your paragraph about reviews on here is a bit too vague to be as outrageous as it claims, but I'm very happy to agree with your first point.
Its entirely personal, sorry to be vague.
The funny thing is that I think I just don't want to read a review by myself 10 years ago, because that person is wholly uninteresting to me now...
I wrote a couple reviews for Plan B years ago and am ashamed of that because I thought I had something to say, but I was just a nerd fumbling around.calumlynn this'd this
without wanting to criticise a lot of the guys who write reviews on this site/other websites, I completely agree with this
self-serving is the key phrase...
as for own pet hates
comedy and biography.
you're a critic, not a comedian and 99% of people aren't nearly as funny as they'd like to think, so I dislike people who constantly try and inject humour in their reviews.
and people who use a music review as some kind of catharsis for whatever personal problems they're enduring at the time. go see a therapist or write a blog.
i like reviews that are quite forceful/authoritarian. you're offering your opinion, not entering a debate, so as long as you're backing up your rational and train of thought soundly and are actually knowledgeable of what you're writing i really enjoy quite polemic and almost 'snotty' (not quite the write word I'm looking for but it's late) reviews.
Interesting reading this thread and noting that
although it's called 'things you love and loathe' it's 99% loathing in the comments. Conclusions:
-there's more stuff about record reviews that winds people up than otherwise.
-people on here love to moan.
I enjoy reading and writing reviews on here to be honest. The things I love best about music reviews are when you get that sense that the reviewer really clicked with a record and they infect you with your enthusiasm and made you check it out. Anais Mitchell's Hadestown would be an excellent case in point. Never heard her before, read the review, thought 'that really sounds like it's going to be amazing', got the record and it was.
lolled at some of this


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It's Halloween time, so let's talk about horror movies. Ahh my favorite ! What are your favorite horror & horror/sci-fi movies? Why?
This list is not in any order (as I think of more I will add then to this post):
1. All the Friday the 13th's, Jason Goes to Hell, Jason X, Freddy v. Jason
Jason Vorhees is the best horror villian ever! Very unique kills! Kills differently almost every time. Has the most documented kills in horror movie history!
2. Nightmare on Elm St., The New Nightmare
I only care for the first and the last of the Freddy horror series. Both had very intriguing stories and some good, but not excessive gore
3. John Carpenter's The Thing
The best remake film ever! Great gore factor! If you love horror you have to see this. My favorite horror/sci-fi of all time! Great acting all the way around!
4. The Shining
No horror movie compares! Jack Nicholson should have won an academy award for the best psychopathic acting I have ever seen. Creepy to the bone and has wonderful background symbolism.
5. The Lost Boys
The best vampire horror movie of all time! Keifer Sutherland does a great acting job. One of my favorite movies as kid! Used to watch it every year for my sleepover birthday parties.
6. Evil Dead 2
The most hilarious horror movie ever! Bruce Campbell is top notch with the one liners. Has one of the best horror scenes ever... the "flying eyeball" scene! Evil Dead and The Army of Darkness are great too, but for me Evil Dead 2 is the best!
7. Child's Play
Never cared for any of the sequels. Loved the foul mouthed doll dialog. Chucky's a great horror villian!
8. Halloween, Halloween II
Both of these films should be put together into one long film! The perfect movies to watch during the Halloween season! Has many classic scenes. Never really cared for the films made after the first two.
9. Demonic Toys
The most underrated horror film ever made! Hilarious and scary! Never knew why this movie wasn't that popular. What's better then a bunch of toys coming to life and killing people!? A must see! Don't even try to watch the sequel... Horrible!
10. Demon Wind
Gruesome and creepy! Has the best "crazy, wise old man" that warns the main characters ever. This was the inspiration for the XXX Comedy Rap group RTM's "Scary Story" track. By far classic horror!
11. Return of the Living Dead
Great combination of zombies and characters. Hilarious content. The two main characters at the beginning of the movie are the best! The second one was good too, but don't go on any further!
12. Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning
Just saw this in the theaters and loved it. Gore and creep factor 100%. Leatherface just moved up in my favorite horror movie villians list. All the Texas Chainsaw movies are good, but this one stands out for me!
13. Alien, Aliens
Great horror/sci-fi films! The ones that came out afterwards are good, but do not compare to the first two. I actually like Aliens better than Alien. Sigourney Weaver was the first bad ass horror movie chick! Aliens is my second favorite horror/sci-fi film.
14. Zombie
The best foreign horror film ever! Lucio Fulci is downright crazy with his gruesome affects and soundtracks. Never cared for the sequels.
15. John Carpenter's The Fog
Way better than the remake. The best soundtrack for a horror flick! For the love of God do not even attempt to watch the remake! Horrible film all together. Read The Pasta Mafia review of the remake under the movie database section and you'll see why it's horrible. www.pastamafia.com
16. The Blob
What a great remake. Nothing's better then having a whole town get taken over by a big slimmy blob that eats people. There are some great kills in this one. Recommended!
17. Maximum Overdrive
One of my favorite Stephen King based movies. All electronics get a mind of their own and start killing everyone! Wonderful! Great old school flick!
Horror Movies!
Here you can chat about anything that's not Warriors related.
Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, 32
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:28 pm
Starting Lineup
SoCooLBob wrote:Oakland Raiders vs. Anybody This Year?
Oakland Raiders vs anybody this year isn't scary...
but Oakland Raiders FANS vs anybody this year is bloody scary!
I mean would you like to meet this guy in a dark alley after his team has dropped 5 games in a row... tis guy would be scary even in a lit up alley in Denver, (John Elway wouldn't be taking this shortcut home)
The scariest thing to come out of the blackhole. AL DAVIS


text:
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text:
Eagle River necesitaba un nuevo diseño de página web y lanzó un concurso de diseño en 99designs.
Un ganador ha sido elegido entre 86 diseños de 31 diseñadores freelance.
Eagle County Health Services District
http://www.echsd.org - current website to be redesigned. we want to keep it simple but lighter.
Eagle County Health Service District serves 550 square miles of Eagle County Colorado, providing paramedic and ambulance transport services to residents and visitors. We are one of only three medical transport agencies in Colorado to be nationally accredited with the Commission on Accreditation of Ambulance Services (CAAS).
we are highly trained, professional and fast.
We offer numerous free services to the community including car seat safety checks and senior wellness.
Eagle County is a rural part of Colorado. below are links to the towns in the county. The community is mostly rural, be we also serve Vail - which is the largest ski area in the US and very cosmopolitan.
I've posted these links to show what the town is like. I don't want our site to look like these websites.
- anyone in the community wanting to learn more about ambulance service.
- People who have been in an accident and need to pay their bill
- prospective employees
- employees - linking out to employee login and employee calendar
This is a redesign
http://www.echsd.org - current website. This website is several years old and really we just want a fresh new look.
Navigation links will remain the same. the only addition will be PAY ONLINE and SUBMIT INSURANCE INFORMATION. But this will fall under Patient Accounts. I would like to see it highlighted somehow on the home page without adding it to the navigation top level.
1. logo on home page
2. CAAS logo on home page
3. top level nav
4. we'd like some flash animation or rollover. something to make it a least a bit interactive. nothing major, just a touch of motion or rollover motion.
5. we want light, and fill the screen - at least 960 px wide.
6. I've attached some photos. feel free to use them or not use them.
7. I can purchase istock photos if you go that route.
Eagle County Health Service District provides skilled, professional and compassionate Emergency Medical Service (EMS) to our community in Western Colorado.
9. PAY ONLINE and SUBMIT INSURANCE INFORMATION - highlight this somehow
10. feel free to pull out other content if you wish. or not. I'm completely open to ideas.
I have not found any other ambulance websites I really like.


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