text:
via Heartiste
I can't make sense of all this shit. I'm just one of the thousands of "forever-alones". Raised by an emotionally abusive mom and a beta dad, I'm a life long involuntary beta (omega?) in my mid 20's, though I don't feel like one. Have a few friends and have gotten IOI's from women, so I'm not socially retarded, but I have zero sexual experience with women.
I've read most of the Heartiste and Roosh blog posts and I think it makes sense. I don't pedestalize women, I don't buy them shit nor do them favours. Granted, I don't have any female platonic friends (just acquaintances) so there's no one to pedestalize, really. Neither do I have the "beta view" on women as presented in this post. Yet I'm in a stand-still; after all these years I'm finally confident on my skills and abilities in most other fields in life and believe I can accomplish a lot of things, except for this one thing. I've talked to my friends about this but don't really want to, even though it kind of makes sense considering that they're a lot like me (we spend our days doing similar things, we're not boring nor are we super fascinating) and they have girlfriends. I don't think psychologists can help me, either, that's why I post here (to hopefully get some advice). I'm beginning to realize that to get a girlfriend and/or sex I will have to expect hundreds of rejections as I make advances at women, something I really don't care for–as if involuntary celibacy isn't bad enough. I actually think this is my sticking point: rejection fucking sucks but I guess I have to "put my ass on the line", so to speak. What the hell am I supposed to do? Have I already answered my own question?
Add to this that I live in Sweden and am a native of this country, which gives a cultural component readers of this blog might not be familiar with, but if you can give me some pointers, go ahead.
" I'm beginning to realize that to get a girlfriend and/or sex I will have to expect hundreds of rejections as I make advances at women, something I really don't care for"
I hear that. I want to learn to play the guitar, I just don't want to have to play any wrong notes to do it. Can anyone give me a magic pill so I can just be able to play a song without having to make any mistakes or dedicate any amount of time or effort to it?
Suck it up, buttercup! The journey is more fun than you think once you stop looking at it as constant rejection and more as constant experimentation. It's not like you don't get laid for 10 years of being shot down and then you finally get a girlfriend. There's lots of little victories along the way.
via Heartiste
Women also understand "the hand."
This is the most important contribution I've made to this community, so listen up.
Earlier this month I was at an ez-pickup bar in San Francisco. It was the end of the night.
I don't know how, but I recognized Tyler Durden, famed PUA and foil in the original tome 'The Game.'
Me: Hey, you're that guy. What's your name?
Tyler: Owen.
Me: No, what's your real name?
Tyler: Tyler.
Now, me and my friends have a thing where if one of us loses a bet or game of foosball, they have to open whatever set any other guy points out for the rest of the night. We call it that too, "open that set." It's closing time in this bar, and there's one last cute blonde with her tall friend talking to some tall, bearded motherfucker.
Tyler and I chat for a second before I say, Tyler, that is the last hot girl in the whole place. Go open that set.
I will never forget what he did next.
He turned around, looked the girl in the eye and just held out his hand.
And she took it. She giggled a little bit first and demured, but he held his frame and she took his hand.
He pulls her in, bearded mofo fades away instantly, and within two minutes not only is the girl hanging off him but her friend is laughing and touching him all over.
That fucking hand is the most magical thing I've seen in my life. I drop that thing everywhere I go now. Super hot babe in a packed bar, swarmed by uglier friends and guys buzzing by trying to get her attention? Turn, hold out the hand, wait till she takes it and now she's dancing in your arms thinking "who is this cocky motherfucker."
Try it. Do it. Even the ones that resist, you can watch them squirm and see how hard it is for them to say no. Most comply, you've skipped the stupid "open" step and it's on.
The ultimate opener has been discovered. Take this power. It's yours now.
|on March 29, 2012 at 4:17 pm
I've also noticed that even if an opener goes awry, the moment I extend my hand, a girl's demeanor totally changes into a positive, receptive one.
Must be some sort of science behind this.
There is. But you'd have to read a lot of old school PUA teaching to fully understand why it works and it's not really important to understand it in depth.
Consider it basically a combo of "assume a positive response", frame control ("nothing weird just happened what are you talking about?"), and triggering pre-programmed responses (same as if you hold a glass up and say "cheers!" to pretty much anyone they'll clink their glass, it's just a pre-programmed response).
I say offensive stuff all the time on purpose just to push the limits. People around me gasp and girls will raise an eyebrow but then I just stick my hand out for a handshake like whatever I said is totally normal and they mentally glitch and fall into handshake/introduction mode and completely forget what just happened.
There were some good videos of a guy named Darren Brown who used mental glitches in people to do stuff like get them to give him their wallet then forget they gave it to him etc. I think it's all connected with NLP concepts but the whole NLP thing is pretty creepy to me. It's interesting and trippy to see it in action but I wouldn't want to go around doing it to everyone. I look at it as an emergency parachute to get out of sticky situations, vs something to wield around 24/7 in every interaction.
"…HER: well we will c what is waiting for us next time. could b good. im wearing those kneehighs u said u liked.
[ten minutes later, after no immediate response]
HER: and fyi, i might be a voyeur. but dont get any ideas.
[twenty minutes later, after no reply]
HER: sorry if im teasing u. im a flirty girl.
[two hours passed]
HIM: Okay!…"
I'm admiring and appreciating this work of art as I would the finest Goya or Titian.
Sheer beauty… sheer beauty.
And yet when I try these sorts of things, girls always seem to eventually give up on me. What am I doing wrong?
You're not high value enough to them. Usually this is a result of too much push and not enough pull, or simply pushing too fast or too much compared to your value level. The higher value you are to her, the more you can push (like the "Okay!" guy or an abusive guy to a girl with a daddy complex who can run "quit bothering me, fuck off" game and have the girl chase him).
If you tease a girl with a push like "we are NOT sleeping together tonight ;)" and she responds like "okay. (shrug)" you pushed before you had enough value to push.
Totally. Props to the "Okay!" man. It took me a looooooooong time to learn that you don't have to respond to every txt.
Theres an inidian girl im gaming. Couple of questions i have. We met, hit it off, got the number. We've been texting for a few weeks. I've made at least three attempts to have her come meet up with me for a 1st date (obviously not phrasing it that way)…she maneuvers around my suggestions each time, and counters by saying I should come see her at her restaurant again. I met her while she was working in this random restaurant i had lunch at.
Question is, she's balking at coming to hang out outside her comfort zone, which leads me to assume 1 of 2 things.
1.) Attention whore, milking the interaction for validation.
2.) She needs more comfort, seeing me again in person before taking the leap to drive down for a date.
*She is Indian, and their culture seems to be a bit more conservative…she doesnt drink, and told me its illegal for women to in her culture (yikes). So keep that in mind.
Any advice? I sorta feel like i'm being played… but her different culture causes me to question my own conclusions.
Go to her restaurant with some friends (guys girls doesn't matter). She probably needs comfort cause of her culture. Going with friends is a way of appeasing her needs without supplicating because you're not there JUST to see her. Shoot the shit, build a little more comfort but don't push for a meet-up, just bail after you guys are done eating. Wait a day or whatever and get the txt convo going (joke that her food gave you food poisoning lol) then push for a meet-up again.
Said it before and I'll say it again: most pickup techniques were just reverse-engineered from what girls do to guys.
The difference is that guys studying pickup are wielding this stuff consciously while most girls are doing it subconsciously. That self-awareness is what gives us the upper-hand.
Disagree. Most guys don't study pick-up, and most girls do study "The Rules" or some variation of that book. It is mostly entirely conscious on our part, the idea of "hand." Girls are brought up to believe men only want sex and thus have to play the game to keep a man interested, because once he fucks her, he'll lose interest. PUA is underground, whereas every relationship section of every bookstore in existence is female-oriented, filled with books telling them to play hard to get. "The Rules", "Why Men Love Bitches", and books by Steve Harvey all basically say the same thing – that a man values a woman who makes him wait for sex. We have no idea these actions backfire with you players and make us look "bitchy."
[heartiste: i don't really buy this cultural conditioning argument. it's more likely all the relationship books that women read are simply regurgitated reflections of their innate biological drives, feeding them information they already feel on a visceral subconscious level. women are naturally attuned to gaining and keeping hand in LTRs because it is more important to women, from an evolutionary view, to secure the best possible mate and extract his resources as long as it takes to nurture children to self-sustaining adulthood. this means women have to be good at screening out betas early on (shit tests) and enticing alphas into commitment (coyness, hand).]
Because she has low self-esteem.
via Rational Male
Good stuff. This extrapolates to why the "game only works on drunk bar sluts" argument is BS. It's ego protection cause for a guy to accept that it works on all girls means he'd have to accept that he simply sucks at attracting girls. And for a girl to accept it would work on her or her friends means she'd have to confront her own Madonna/Whore beliefs and it's too much of a mindfuck.
Newsflash: your mom has probably taken it in the ass. Your sister will probably blow 2 guys at once. The perfect angel co-worker of yours with a PHD who's WAY more intelligent and higher quality than those bar sluts, probably fantasizes about getting choked and spit on.
And that's okay. 🙂
Current story going on: Player buddy met a chick our Beta buddy thinks he's got dibs on. Beta buddy drives her around, pays for her shit, compliments her, tells other guys she's off-limits, he 100% thinks he has a shot and that she's an angel. Player buddy bitched her out for using Beta buddy. A few weeks later she's asking to hang out with Player buddy and wants to "watch a movie". And her txts say stuff like "but we can't tell Beta buddy k?". She's no sluttier or "insane" than any other chick, she's just acting on her hypergamy.
"only trailer park sluts would do THAT."
Continue to believe whatever is comforting to you.
via Rational Male
Just on a side note: Rollo's comment about bodybuilders is a big part of why they don't intimidate me in the field. Reading the Misc and Relationship forums at bodybuilding.com helps too. What you learn quick is that even tho those guys are jacked up and talk big talk about being alpha males, the reality is most of them spend too much time in the gym to learn how to handle women and they're so reliant on their external looks that they don't learn any actual game, and any female experience they've had has either been with randoms who jumped their bones (no game required, girl leads the whole thing) or they've had girlfriends like Rollo describes, girls who keep them whipped as hell under their thumb. The funniest part is that often those girls are just average at best too. But the guys are so beta and insecure in their core (thus the excessive working out) that they have Dread and supplicate.
Remember that the next time a Jersey Shore looking douche is hitting on a girl you want to approach.🙂
via Heartiste
|on March 27, 2012 at 9:58 pm
I have a question that is a bit off topic, but related to tourist sex. What suggestions would you have for two guys, a little beta but very goodlooking and straight, about gaming a girl who's not a complete hoe, but a little freaky, into a two man three-way?
They tell me that the last time they tried such a thing, it didn't work out well for them because since they're both straight, they were all nerves and this made the girl nervous so she backed out. I'm not really sure why they want to do this so badly. I guess it's a porn exposure thing.
Just how would a couple of guys go about seducing a fairly normal young woman into something like this? Also, in such a situation should one guy take on the role of alpha and the other beta, or should they behave more like a single unit?
They'll be shipping out soon, by the way, and won't have to see the girl again. I know what they want to do to her, but she doesn't. So far, I've been doing the good wingperson thing and commenting on how hot both of them are and "if I was 20 years younger…" (social proof), and mentioning they're leaving soon (scarcity/discretion).
I suppose this is a question about any out of the ordinary things. How does a guy who doesn't look like Satan or something, go about seducing a woman into really freaky stuff in a relatively short time? How do you break through both the pub/club bitch shields and the in-the-dark inhibitions quickly?
Go online for this. This isn't something you can just bring up to random women and expect a "yes" to. It's hard enough for one guy to get in a woman's pants, much less two.
Anyway, around five years ago, setting up three-ways was something best done on Craig's List, a City Paper personals section or Adult Friend Finder.
This can still be done, but these days most go through OKCupid, where women will often times boldly assert how wild they are and even answer survey questions like "have you ever had group sex." These are public profiles, replete with pics, and you'd be surprised how many women eagerly answer "yes" to this question.
In much the same way strangers on planes will tell each other personal details they'd never tell friends or family, women on Internet dating sites will reveal things that boyfriends, "co-workers" and other people close to them in real life will never get to know.
Finally, if they absolutely feel the need to meet someone in real life to arrange their three way, tell them to seek out nurses or CNAs. For whatever reason, the women I know into this are almost exclusively in nursing-related fields.
"This isn't something you can just bring up to random women and expect a "yes" to."
Sure you can.
"they were all nerves and this made the girl nervous so she backed out"
Ya. "What you feel, she feels." If they're uncomfortable, she'll be.
"Just how would a couple of guys go about seducing a fairly normal young woman into something like this?"
1) Accept that all women are freaky sluts deep down, and don't judge that.
2) Act like it's totally normal and they do it all the time, instead of like it's some freaky porn shit big deal.
3) Understand that the vast majority of women have a MFM fantasy, overthinking this is like "how would I get someone to accept a $1,000,000 bill, hmmm…I just don't know how!!"
"Also, in such a situation should one guy take on the role of alpha and the other beta, or should they behave more like a single unit?'
If you can both pull off being alpha, then both of you flirt with her and when one of you escalates, say "mmmm this one kisses good, you try her…" and turn her to face the other guy who acts casual and just pulls her in and starts kissing her ("mmmm you're right, she should come party with us…")
Or if one of you is super in with the chick and the other guy is kind of the third wheel, have the other guy eye-fuck her and flirt a bit and after she's heated up and horny and making eye-contact with the third-wheel while the first guy is groping her, have the third-wheel say (while staring her down and moving closer) "hey Bob, is it cool if I kiss her…" (but don't actually wait for a response, just do it, you're making a statement more than asking a question)
Once this all goes down, get her somewhere private ASAP. Don't pass her around like a whore in the bar all night. The general mentality should be like "oh, dude, check it out, this one's pretty awesome…" "hey, you're right, you know what fuck all these other girls let's us 3 get out of here and go have a drink back at the hotel…"
If one of you is super alpha and the other is super beta, the alpha guy can order the girl around. "mmm that feels amazing, you give good head babe, but I feel bad Bob's stuck out there spankin himself. Hey Bob, come in here! Show him what you can do babe. (he walks in in just boxers with a boner like he was spanking it out there, and the alpha guy puts her hand on his crotch, she'll take over from there)"
"So far, I've been doing the good wingperson thing and commenting on how hot both of them are and "if I was 20 years younger…" (social proof), and mentioning they're leaving soon (scarcity/discretion)."
Good wing skills! It's up to them from there. Only thing less attractive than one beta is two, tell 'em to man up. Also warn them that it's not as cool as in porn. When you're spit-roasting a girl you're stuck looking at your bro lol And any place you do stuff, your bro's "stuff" has already been there. It's pretty gross to me, I'm not a fan personally, but some guys are cool with it.
Also don't force it, if she's not cool with it, she's not cool with it either because she's 100% not into or curious about it, or because they're fucking up since they're not real skilled at this stuff. Two uncalibrated guys who don't know the difference between "omg we shouldn't…" and "No." and one horny girl, mixed with a bunch of vacation alcohol in everyone, can turn into a rapey situation really fast. No means no.
"How does a guy who doesn't look like Satan or something, go about seducing a woman into really freaky stuff in a relatively short time? How do you break through both the pub/club bitch shields and the in-the-dark inhibitions quickly?"
My specialty, but that's a whole 'nother topic in itself. :) The main keys to it are to believe that whatever you're doing is normal, and to not judge her in any way for letting those dark inhibitions loose.
I know what your saying but I've found that most girls have an FF fantasy, vs FMF. They're curious about being with a girl but the curiosity is about the girl not about including a guy in it, know what I mean? It's like you play Nintendo all day and then someone gives you an Xbox for the night, you don't even remember the Nintendo is there cause you're too busy playing with this new amazing Xbox that's only there for a limited time.
For actual 3-somes most girls I've met (I test the waters for stuff like this with most girls I talk to) like the idea of two guys. The ones into FMF tend to have already had at least one FF experience before (even if it was just a drunken thing with a close female friend).
lol this is why it's hard to find a good wingman who understands you have to be running the same play. You can't have one team-player and one guy who's playing every man for himself.
This is also why I'm never really worried about other guys taking my girls. The average guy has shitty game and you can throw a 3-some right in his lap and he'll still find a way to fuck it up lol
"Who gets the room", jesus. Party together for a bit then one guy takes his girl to the bathroom to fuck, the couch to fuck, the hallway to fuck, the stairwell to fuck, if it's warm then outside to fuck, a vehicle to fuck…if you have two beds in the room you just start fucking under the covers.
Thanks for letting us know how it panned out at least lol
I have the weirdest boner now…
Also for the small guys, just say: "Sorry, it's normally bigger. I'm just used to hotter girls." lol
via Heartiste
via Rational Male
I just present the facts. It's not my fault if people are too emotionally invested in believing they're special unique snowflakes to accept that they are the exact same predictable person capable of having the same blind spots and limiting beliefs that everyone else is.
There's nothing worse than a bunch of guys who don't do something giving each other advice on doing that thing lol whether it's picking up girls in clubs, approaching during the daytime, handling the girl's friends, dealing with cockblocks, picking up rich girls with no money, picking up while fat/ugly/short, handling aggressive MMA fighters, etc.
Sorry I found the manosphere and started calling the keyboard jockeys out as keyboard jockeys. I understand that was probably crippling to the bullshit "king of the hill" identity your ego created for you when newbies took your advice as experienced and authoritative simply because you write with stubborn conviction and they didn't know you were fronting.
Anyone who clearly regularly goes out and picks up, I have all sorts of respect for. If you want to half-ass your life and still expect praise, hang out with your mom. And tell her I said hi. 🙂
via Rational Male
"You could tell by his epically long butt-hurt response."
lol all my comments are epically long. Don't feel special.
"I got more success with women from going to the gym and getting in shape, than those stupid lines anyways. Why? I built REAL confidence by improving myself."
You literally just said what I've been saying. It's not the muscles that got you pussy, it's the confidence those muscles and improving yourself gave you. Thankyou for agreeing with me that confidence is what's attractive, not shit like muscles, money, a nice car, a good job, etc.
"All this effort put into lines"
No effort required. It's just learning how to communicate.
"spending money at clubs"
Make friends with the bouncers and don't drink, no $ spent.
I've been wearing the same pair of jeans for over a year and no one has noticed. I once wore the same t-shirt out every night for 2 months in a row. You don't have to spend $ on clothes.
"wasting hours of their life 'tightening their game'."
Ya, flirting with girls is such a waste of time. I mean, if you don't get pussy in 10 seconds from every girl you see, you're just wasting your life chasing pussy…fuck human interaction (male and female) or making new friends or learning to trust yourself in social situations.
"They're still worshiping the pussy. They're still a beta. Their life revolves around getting laid."
Oh wow, I've never heard that argument before. You are making a completely new and original point:
"It's perfectly possible to rarely cold approach yet still find a large enough dating pool from which to select one or several girls for an LTR or MLTR and for flings."
Absolutely, I agree 100%. But if you're not cold approaching, then you have no credentials to be lecturing guys on how cold approach works or what attracts women off cold approaches.
That'd be like saying "I totally got laid by my wife for the 500th time yesterday guys! BOOYA!!! Now lemme tell you, my wife likes when I wear my suit, so the trick to picking up girls in a nightclub or to have sex with them a couple hours from meeting them on the street in the daytime is to be wearing a suit! Pay attention bros."
It's retarded.
I don't have anything against guys who don't cold approach because they have other ways they get laid, that's cool. The problem is when those guys extrapolate their limited experience into theoretical keyboard jockey advice to guys who are learning to cold approach. You picking up a girl in your social circle, even if it's the first time you meet her face to face, is NOT the same as cold approaching a random girl and seducing her the first time you meet her.
I've never talked smack about guys who love long term relationships or marriages or whatever, every guy wants something different…I only talk smack if those guys, who are not going out regularly cold-approaching girls the way most newbies are trying to learn, start rattling off retarded advice that tested heavily in the field is clearly will be clearly exposed as bullshit. 'cause those are the guys that fuck newbies up and send them off on tangents that slow down how fast they gain the proper reference experiences to internalize the concepts of attraction.
It's like knowing how to play the guitar and then telling someone how to play the trombone. Ya, they're both music, and some principles can apply, but if your teaching contradicts the teaching of someone who's playing the trombone regularly, you have to accept that your guitar is not the same instrument and that your advice isn't relevant. It's not a judgement call, it's just knowing your limits.
"And another point I agree with you on is the emotional and hedonistic value of the LTR over the one night stand and quick fling lifestyle."
A lot of PUAs have LTRs, oLTRs, mLTRs, marriages, children, you name it. The community is fully aware of the benefits (and downsides) of it. Reality is though, when you're a newbie, the quick fling lifestyle that you could never have imagined yourself having is very alluring and having an LTR gives you an excuse to stop learning game way too soon before you've internalized the mindsets and you end up losing the girl and then saying "that game stuff doesn't work!!!" because you were a White Belt martial artist picking street fights expecting to own everyone lol So the encouragement for flings is more for the newbie's benefit than anything else. Most guys who've been in the game for a long time settle into an mLTR situation where they have one or two regular girlfriend girls, but those girls understand that they'll go pick up random pussy now and then.
It's also important to go through a fling stage so you learn what you do/don't like in women and what behavior you will/won't accept from one in an LTR. I'm sure you wouldn't disagree with that.
"Of course so does excitement and novelty, however I'm a believer that one needs at minimum bouts of genuine romance."
It only takes a few fucks before a girl starts falling in love. Vast majority of casual flings are very easy to turn into genuine romance…you just see the girl more than once a week, occasionally don't have sex with her (just watch a movie or have dinner), and you're well on your way to the love zone. I find it's actually a lot trickier to AVOID that shit and keep things strictly to sex lol
via Rational Male
lol never gotten into a fight in all my years of pickup.
I've talked my way out of a lot of possible altercations. It's a combination of massive frame control ("it's not possible that this situation will result in violence, that's just not an outcome that exists, sorry") and general alpha dominance.
I'm not a big guy or anything, I just understand the social dynamics behind why guys fight. Most of the time it's out of insecurity. You just match his mental state, pace him, then lead it into a calmer state. It's like bringing a hyper party girl's energy down, you match her high energy, pace it with her, then lead it down to a lower energy you're more comfortable with.
Violence is surface-level, like money. Break violence down and what is it? Self-expression ("I'm displaying all the rage I feel right now, and I don't care what anyone thinks or if it's illegal!!!"), dominance ("I'm gonna make this guy my bitch!"), self-assuredness ("10 guys? Fuck it I'll take you all on!!!"), the ability to protect the people around him ("stay away from my girl!!"), a willingness to act ("come at me bro lets do this!!")…
What do those attributes of violence all boil down to? That magic word: Confidence.🙂 no one who goes into a fight un-confident and expecting to lose.
So as a guy who likes having all his teeth, how do you get the same reaction without the actual swinging of fists? Are there ways you can verbally or with your body language display self-expression, dominance, self-assuredness, the ability to protect the people around you, a willingness to act, etc?
Yes, of course. Violence is simply the fastest/easiest route to displaying those things so most men, especially when a mixture of alcohol courage and female attention/rejection are involved, resort to it. It's like a girl-next-door type who wants to get laid putting on a push-up bra and a slutty outfit. It's the fastest/easiest way of displaying the same attributes that the girl who's not dressed as slutty but naturally oozes sex appeal displays.
I wonder if anyone will understand this post lol this is a pretty deep concept in pickup but the ramifications of understanding it are pretty widespread. It's the explanation for why some short guys can get laid while others let their height hold them back (the short ones who get laid display the same confidence-based attributes that we associate with tall height (power, respect from others, ability to protect loved ones, etc) thru other means). It's why some poor guys can get laid by the same quality girls a rich guy is getting (displaying the same confidence-based attributes we assoaciate with being wealthy).
It's again why I stress that a lot of what actions or physical objects people think are "attraction triggers" are still people looking at the surface level and not breaking it down far enough to really get at the core of the psychology that's going on and that's why responses to articles like this read like "i kicked this guys ass once and got a BJ!" but then the next guy is "I purposely didn't kick this guys ass once and got a BJ!" and once girl goes "I get so turned on when a guy is covered in blood" and another girl goes "my guy once handled this situation without fighting and I was so turned on at how he dominated those violent meatheads" and we add all these "it has to be in the ring, street brawls are unbecoming" and "it has to be on the street and you have to not be the instigator" nuances.
When you get conflicting and confusing opinions like that it's time to break the concept down deeper until the reactions are consistent. Ie – "standing up with confident posture is attractive" or "expressing yourself authentically is attractive"
This is the process of analyzing social dynamics and this is the secret to why PUAs advanced the knowledge of seduction so quickly. We kept breaking concepts down further and further to their core. And even now we continue to do it (the guys at RSD are leaders in this but other seduction companies are heading that way too). Before we understood that a neg worked. Then we understood WHY a neg works. Now we understand why you can get the same reaction you get from a neg without using a neg.
But maybe I'm just standin in the rain talkin to myself lol
via Rational Male
"Actually, the easiest way is your route, because all it requires is manipulative words."
I said resorting to violence was the easy route, not WINNING a fight. 😉 Swinging your fist at anything in front of you is easy but you still might get your ass kicked. Staring down a huge jacked up drunk angry beefcake wearing an Affliction shirt who thinks you "wronged" him and calmly talking him down with your words is very difficult.
"Yet, once you've disrespected their personal territory or crossed that line, they would beat you to an once of your life."
You don't cross that territory when you have social calibration and an awareness of social dynamics. That's sort of my point. I don't get into fights not because guys don't get mad at me, but because I see it coming and can diffuse or turn it around and befriend them before they swing or before I cross their boundaries to the point where they swing.
"You say it's because of confidence. I think it's because they live a life that most men only watch on TV. They're jacked, they have scars, they have a death stare… people know not to mess with them."
Then why do guys who are jacked, have scars, and a death stare still get into fights? Why are biker gangs and gangster thugs getting into fights regularly? This is the same argument as "if you're good looking or have money you'll get all the girls, you say it's confidence but I say it's looks". It doesn't hold up because there are plenty of guys who aren't good looking or don't have money who get the girls and plenty of guys with looks/money who don't (witness half the crowd at a PUA seminar).
Again, when you get conflicting results like that, you have to break it down beyond what you're looking at until the results are consistent.
"Pretending is nice and all,"
lol if you had any idea the things I've done…I speak from experience.
"but even PUAs know not to tread on a real alpha's territory. You know, the one who could strangle you till your head pops. You'd probably not even engage."
Of course not. The win if you can avoid engaging is to avoid engaging.
"One uses seduction techniques to create a false identity of dominance."
It's only false while you're learning. Over time your identity solidifies. This is how taking on new behaviors and mindsets works.
"Put the first one in a situation where he has to fight the second one, and see who actually will screw the girl at the end of the night."
Been in this situ a ton of times. Stay calm, speak authoritatively ("We're cool, man."), hold the frame ("There's no trouble tonight." it's very "These are not the droids you're looking for" lol), keep eye contact, agree with him if he's accusing you of something ("Yes, I was hitting on your girl. My bad, I didn't realize you guys were together. You're a lucky guy, you must have to deal with this shit every night, sorry man. We're cool."), act as though nothing violent can happen, calm him down, befriend him, get him to qualify himself to you ("Man, I was nervous there, you must train MMA or something hey?"), build rapport/comfort ("Ya my buddy does that, fights in the cage and stuff, I'm too tiny for that shit lol").
From there you feel the vibe out. If he's starting to like you, befriend him. I've befriended guys I've taken girls from, and guys who's girlfriends/wives I've made out with. Next thing you know you're both doing shots together.
If he's still got his guard up with you, befriend his friends. The social pressure of other people liking you (especially girls in his group) forces him to chill.
If he'll never like you ever in a million years, but you've calmed him down, you can just wish him a good night and eject and calmly walk away.
If he was just trying to intimidate you because you were both after the same girl, once he qualifies to you, you use your body language and turn yourself and the girl slightly so he's angled behind your shoulders a bit and looks like the 3rd wheel and then you ignore that he exists (no talking to him, no responding to anything he says, no acknowledging him) and spike your girl's buying temperature a bunch so she's giggling away and you two are having basically a "private" conversation with him stuck standing there feeling like a tool. The social pressure of feeling like everyone is watching him makes him walk away…he started to feel like you were buddies and he's calmed down so he won't swing at you, he basically becomes the odd man out like when your wingman is talking to a girl who likes him and neither of them acknowledge you so you wander off to get a drink or piss.
All of these methods display social dominance. You've taken a guy who would knock any other guy's head off and completely handled him. The girls can tell who the alpha in that situation is.
But it took me like 4 paragraphs to describe just the basic common situations and how to handle them, and there are a ton more. That's why I say this isn't an easy skill to learn. You're not just "saying some words", there's a shit-load of social dynamics going on that you have to be aware of and know how to manipulate and adapt to.
I've had a guy right on the edge of killing me (I was sitting leaning against a cement wall and he was a jacked up angry latino White Knight guy who saw me fingering the girl he had a crush on, he was standing in front of me with his leg wound up ready to kick my head into the wall and there was no way I could've physically stopped him from doing it). Held the frame and calmed him down enough to walk away (I ran like a bitch once I got around the corner lol). Txt message from her 15 min later asking me to come over, fucked her in the alley behind his house while he was inside drinking with her friend.
This is a whole sub-section of study in the oldschool PUA community. Google for Tyler Durden's old articles on handling AMOGs.
Now your automatic response to my reply will no doubt be something like "lol whatever that's just keyboard fantasy. If you cross my super MMA badass scarred death stare buddy's line he will kill you instantly no matter WHAT you say, you can't calm him down and befriend him like some purring kitten."
…but if that was your response, it would only show that you haven't spent enough time out in the field and been in or seen these situations and haven't done or seen someone do what I'm describing in those situations.
"Secondly, its one thing to go face to face with some wannabe tough guy beta but quite another to come across a drugged up criminal with no hesitation who gets off on fighting."
Ya, I have the skills to diffuse most situations, but I still wouldn't put myself in stupid situations. Like a girl wearing a short skirt into an alleyway in the bad part of town at night, like, take a cab. I used to hit up biker bars and gangster bars just for the practice, and hit on girls with obvious boyfriends, etc. (Iearning how to handle different environments and people/classes) but now I'm old and I'd rather just steer clear of most of that if I can avoid it.
No one puts down their blue martini to fist-fight in a swank lounge lol
…well that's not true either. But you get my point.
Part of social awareness and calibration is diffusing situations waaaay before they escalate. It's like Ceaser the Dog Whisperer says, react to the situation when the dog is at a 1/10, don't wait till he's at a 10/10.
"Women, living in the visceral, have a difficult time extrapolating out how far violence can escalate."
Ya, a good point. This is why girls will do stupid shit like play drunk guys off one another, start drama on purpose, invite mutliple guys out to the same place, get in a guy's face and expect her BF to step in and sort out the mess she makes, not delete her texting history with you when she has a boyfriend/husband, text you while sitting beside him, etc.
Like she doesn't understand that those situations can escalate to death, paralysis for life, get shot, get a beer bottle over your head 3 months later when the guy recognizes you again, bang your head against the sidewalk and now you're mentally retarded, etc.
So if your believe violence is stupid, and she believes violence is cool, and you get into a fight to impress her, are you really following your own beliefs or are you following hers? Does an alpha live by his rules or by the rules of others? etc. etc.
Those things absolutely help…..you to become confident. Which is the attraction trigger.
Nope. Anything I write is just a complication of PUA knowledge that's already available around the net, and backed up by experience testing it out.
"No matter what you've done, you're still a beta at heart."
"One. The guy was a bitch"
So is that your thing? When something conflicts with your reality, you just throw an insulting label on it and write it off so you don't have to consider it anymore?
Have you purposely gone out and tried to pick girls up from mixed sets of guys & girls? At night? In the day? Have you sat down with a couple at their dinner table while they were on a date and macked on the girl? Have you picked up in a biker bar? Have you cut thru a circle of jacked up MMA looking guys to hit on the one girl in their group? Have you gone to environments where you clearly don't belong and tried to take girls off the guys there who think the girls belong to them? Have you had jealous guys threaten you or make lies up about their relationship with the girl and diffused and plowed thru the situation? Have you been followed out of a bar by drunk guys wanting to kick your ass? Have you had guys aggressively hit on your girl while your arm is around her?
Cause I have. That's why I don't say there's nothing attractive about violence, I say there are underlying concept behind why it SEEMS to be attractive.
"Most of the middle post sounds like a bunch of try hard for some slit."
Oh it is. Most girls aren't worth going to that much effort for. But just cause flying into space is hard it doesn't mean the science behind space travel is bogus.
" No self respecting MAN would fight over a crush"
" if he were really 'alpha' he would have beat your ass before you got a word in edge wise."
So which is it? Or do you have conflicting definitions of what an alpha man is because you haven't been around a variety of people? For the record I have buddies who do MMA. Some of them get girls, some of them don't.
"especially an easy slut that got finger banged by you"
lol will your next sentence be "that game stuff only works on drunk easy college sluts?". Seriously do you even go out more than once a week?
"And of course you ran once you turned the corner."
He who screams and runs away lives to scream another day. You have a very cartoon version of what an alpha male is in your head. I wish you the best of luck with that, but understand that it WILL hold you back in pickup. Approach with "what will happen?" not "this is what's supposed to happen!"
My knowledge doesn't just come from reading shit on the Internet. It comes from gaming hard for years and experiencing and testing the concepts in action first hand.
Guys who go out a lot relate to my posts. unfortunately very few men in manosphere blog comment sections go out and approach girls and put themselves in tough circumstances regularly. It seems like most guys commenting go out once or twice a week at most, with their boys, get drunk, and talk to an average girl or two who give them blatant invites to approach.
In the old days of pickup you couldn't even ask "do you guys think this would work?" because the automatic response from everyone would be "go try it out and see. Try it on 10 girls at night. Try it on 10 in the day. Try it on different types of girls. Try it when you're in a shitty mood. Try it in a good mood. Tweak it a little and try that the same way.". And we DID.
"Now your automatic response to my reply will no doubt be something like "lol whatever that's just keyboard fantasy. If you cross my super MMA badass scarred death stare buddy's line he will kill you instantly no matter WHAT you say, you can't calm him down and befriend him like some purring kitten.""
"if he were really 'alpha' he would have beat your ass before you got a word in edge wise."
For the record that's exactly what I said you'd say lol
via Heartiste
I like that none of the regular female commenters are in this thread lol fuckin science. Maybe you should've added a footnote about snookie's pregnancy.
Haha I did notice that as well.
However, I couldn't locate your on-topic contribution to the conversation.
I don't have a desire to be immortal, but I would like to live to see the discovery of life elsewhere in the universe. Talk about a dizzying alteration to man's relationship with religion, society, and politics. I would argue that this would be a more earth-shattering discovery than the key to immortality.
I'm immortal. …so far.
via Heartiste
Why is it that you men find such glee in rejecting women? Generally, we already have a reason to feel bad about something. Today someone I thought was an actual nice guy, illustrated that he has some sort of game. He just lost the right to my smile.
[heartiste: men and women both secretly find glee in rejecting suitors. women may be better at hiding their glee (though that is debatable) but they surely feel damned good walking home after a night out spurning one advance after another.]
My grandmother had a really beautiful friend when she was young. This was back in the day when you would have an official Friday night date. This girl would promise two or three men she would go out with them, and then at the last minute pick the one she liked best.
The modern version of that being the girl who txts a dozen of her orbiter chumps and exes to come out to the bar her and her girls will be at so she can spend the night feeling like a princess with a dozen suitors fighting over her and make her girlfriends jealous because of all the attention she's getting.
Then she goes home with a new guy who doesn't give a shit about his competition, or she cabs it across town to meet up with some guy she's already fucking who doesn't give enough of a shit to respond to her invite txt let alone come out and waste his night orbiting.
d)Your personality is unfuckable.
My lance won´t joust for women with egos bouncing all over like ping pong balls in maracas. Being as they are (fake and controlling with low self-esteem) , and me seeing right trough it and knowing it I just find it untolerable.
Nothing bad with low self-esteem and expressing it in some way. I actually enjoy making these girls happy.
So, only genuine women get the call and therefore (i) can unsheathe my excalibur.
I don´t glee in making rejections, I used to, but as I see what the market in all its twistedness is, now I hate it.
"Your personality is unfuckable."
lol'd for real! next time I run into a girl who deserves it I'm going to just say that flat out.
I don't enjoy rejecting girls, I just don't have a lot of time/energy to waste. If I meet a girl on a Friday and she's fuckable but our logistics are no good I'll grab her number and shoot her a txt of where I'll be Saturday night. If she can't make it I'll give her one more shot for during the week but at that point she can either come over to my apartment to "watch DVDs" or nothing…I'm not traveling somewhere to spend money on a date (even for myself, why would I go buy myself a drink, I have drinks at home).
If she doesn't meet up I just throw an x in front of her name and stop txting. If she gets horny enough to make things easy she can txt and my "DVD night" offer is still on the table, but otherwise I'll go meet new girls and get new numbers so who cares about this one?
Personally I like to test new stuff out on numbers I'm not into. Like demanding naked pics right away, telling them to come over at 3am, escalating things to dirty talk with inappropriate questions way earlier than I normally do, treating her like a piece of shit if she's super hot, etc. cause I don't care if I creep her out, I wasn't gonna hook up with her anyway, but this way I get to practice my game and try stuff out that I might hesitate to try on a girl I "really like".
I escalate fast in txts with girls i like to lead things into sexual conversations cause I did it enough times with numbers I didn't care about to learn the calibration required to consistently do it.
via Heartiste
|on March 22, 2012 at 8:26 am
I think it is very common for guys to use women for ego boost or validation, especially the AFC guys. Even if chick is just talking to him it is at least gives him delusion that there some women in his life.
[heartiste: no. AFCs who get numbers tend to call them because they are starved for female love. the kinds of guys who get numbers for the fun of it are usually alphas who already have a full dating plate and can't be bothered to pursue suboptimal girls.]
|on March 22, 2012 at 12:47 pm
I was more referring to those AFC who don't get nothing, like those stalkers on Facebook who leaves pointless messages and likes, just to make themselves to feel good and like they got some social life going on. I think for them it is some kind of delusional ego validation that has nothing to do with the real life.
AFC don't really go out and get numbers, hence the name is (average frustrated champ), at least not often, maybe once in a blue moon. Otherwise AFC who gets numbers often is at least some kind of natural, or somebody who tries to get better with women.
Another point often overlooked in the pua community that there is actually lots of alphas who doesn't have any game, many sport athletes, military guys or man who did build successful business for themselves and many others, they all can be called alpha to that or another degree, but it will be wrong to assume that all of them got game or abundance when it comes to women.
I think being alpha does imply that women drawn to guy like that, but it doesn't imply that the guy automatically good with women.
just my 2c.
"Another point often overlooked in the pua community that there is actually lots of alphas who doesn't have any game"
lol it's not overlooked. Do some reading.
Seriously tho, I get what you're saying. The level of detail taught in pickup these days is a lot more shallow than it used to be during the Mystery Method days. People want instant results so a lot of old-school info like this is glossed over now which is unfortunate for guys who find things like an alpha not necessarily having game to be important details.
If you're noticing that stuff at all, it means you're going out or at least observing the social dynamics going on around you so props for that! :)
via Rational Male
I actually like my women to flirt around, because what guy could even compare to me. 🙂 They just come back to me extra attracted after realizing that I'm better than the other guys and my prize mindset solidifies even further.
It's a combination of how unreactive I am to their flirting with other guys (no jealousy), subtle AMOG skills, and how shitty 99.9999% of guys' game is.
Watch the hamster scramble if you reply with something like "dunno I'm pretty busy this week" followed by just one word answers or a week of radio silence after she tried to make you jealous. It's epic lol
"The last thing most guys want to do is to fuck with a woman's head. We are forced to fuck with women's heads."
Yup. I WISH I could just be Mr. Nice Guy and be like the dude in the Pedestal letter post. I love being romantic and all that sappy shit. I just learned the hard way that there's a time and place for that (not during the initial seduction lol) and that you have to balance it out so she doesn't lose attraction.
It's not even that she's a bitch or anything, or that she does it consciously. She has no idea that the things she tries to make you do will make you unattractive to her. Same way a child doesn't understand that eating cookies for dinner will give him an upset tummy. As the parent it's your responsibility to say "Hush, I know best, eat your vegetables."
"It would be the equivalent of an ugly woman somehow being able to convince you she's hot just long enough for you to marry her."
lol isn't that pretty much like 90% of marriages these days anyway? 🙂 "Ring's on the finger, no more blowjobs, time to let the good behavior slip, and time to replace Pilates with Chocolate!" The dread and anxiety are what keep a woman paying attention to her SMV…that's a win/win for both people in the relationship. Men keep their shitty jobs they hate to keep bringing in the dough because they "dread" their woman leaving them if they can't provide. Why is that acceptable dread and this isn't especially when staying in shape and beautiful benefits a woman in the longrun in general?
Yup. This is how I frame my Open Relationships. "I might go wander off, but I'll be safe about it if I do and I'll always come home to you babe." Girls won't admit they're okay with it and will try to shit-test me on it, but the difference in attraction when she knows I have other options and choose her over them VS when she knows I have nothing else on my plate is significant.
Any guy who doubts this should take his girlfriend to a restaurant, wear his suit and do himself up all fancy, and (competently lol) flirt with the waitress, then see what kind of sex he gets from his girl when he gets home.
Stick it out and learn to play within the fucked up system. Look at it as an opportunity to better/master your sex/love-life.
You didn't throw the Chess board out when you learned the Knight can only move in an L shape. 🙂
"So, dude flirts with women: bad.
Women flirt with dude: good."
Actually ya, that's a really good point. If you take your girl to a bar and approach and flirt with some girls, it's not the same as if you walk in and the shooter girl hugs you and calls you by name and rubs her tits on you and 3 other girls come up to you through the night and hang on your every word.
This is part of why going out, even in a relationship, is important. Have a place where you're socially proofed and go out without your woman. She won't sit at home thinking "I bet he's flirting with other girls" she'll think "I bet those sluts are flirting with him!!"
"The thing she doesn't seem to grok is that this stuff is on the market because compliment-and-cuddle game is a failure. If women were banging nice beta guys with all the passion of a horny cheerleader, game wouldn't exist"
Yep. Soon as women provide an alternative that works as good or better than learning some basic game does, I'm sure we'd all be happy to adapt their proposed method. Unfortunately most of us have been burned repeatedly by it and watched other guys get burned repeatedly by it.
"They love a man who can make them laugh AND cry, although they'd never mention the latter on their dating profiles!"
Yep, there's a reason soap operas and reality TV shows don't just film people standing around having completely healthy stable relationships. Girls want to feel a range of emotions from a man. It's good for her to be upset once in a while. Not only does it make her feel alive and like she's not with a dial-tone bore of a beta, but when you calmly pass the tantrum shit-test your ability to handle any drama the world throws at you is re-enforced which reassures her that she has a real alpha male who can handle his shit.
Neecy's predictable post reminded me of another angle to look at the anxiety concept: it's a good way to weed out low self-esteem women. If you make a chick with high-self esteem jealous, she'll throw on her best lingerie and win you back ("fuck those bitches I'm hotter than them, he's not gonna even notice other girls after tonight!").
If you make an LSE chick jealous she folds and gives up and cries and whines about being hurt. Both girls need the anxiety fire stoked now and then because relationships just naturally go thru phases where she takes the guy for granted and attraction dulls, but it's a lot like how a playful Neg makes an HSE chick challenge/tease the guy back because she's secure enough to handle it but it crushes or pisses off an LSE girl.
And any guy who's been trapped in the hell of a relationship with an LSE girl should understand how important weeding them out is lol
via Rational Male
This is a perfect breakdown. Guys, especially ones in relationships, should read this.
I'd say the two most important points are 1) the one about giving up on himself not the relationship. Most guys were alpha(esque lol) when they met their girl. Then she tames him and he settles down. Then she doesn't want him anymore and they're like "wtf????". Have your own path, she accompanies you on it, she doesn't divert it. She may complain but she'll respect you and be attracted to you for it.
Or this sums it up nicely lol:
And 2) " He falls into the same binary thinking trap that most AFCs do – "If I can just plead my case well enough and logically enough while applying a good amount of indignation, guilt and conviction she'll see I'm the perfect boyfriend and desire me again." This logic is great when you're an attorney or arguing on a debate team, but he hasn't come to the realization yet that desire and attraction cannot be negotiated"
Another extremely important point, not just in relationships but in pickup in general. In the PUA community we describe this as "change her mood, not her mind".
This doesn't make her attracted:
"let's go get food"
"I dunno…"
"come on, it's late and the pizza place is nearby and I'll buy your pizza and what if I promise nothing will happen okay? I just like you and want to hang out some more? Please?"
"I guess so…"
This does:
"let's go get food"
"I dunno…"
"tease, joke, joke, tease, innuendo, tease"
"giggle giggle omg!!!"
"let's go get food"
"okayyyyy!!!!!🙂 :)"
The concept has widespread applications. It also leads into important deeper concepts about qualifying yourself and qualifying others and setting the right prize frame and actually leads into a REALLY advanced really deep concept about buying temperature and how shit-tests are designed to help the girl purposely throw herself out of state which circles back to explaining why attraction is amped when you pass her tests. It's all super fascinating oldschool PUA knowledge that mostly just the oldschool guys know (today's pickup is taught with more of a "don't overthink it" attitude because of the "instant results" shift in mentality today's newbies have toward learning pickup with compared to the "I'm prepared to dedicate years of my life to mastering this" old days).
But I digress, all a newbie needs to remind himself to get by is "change her mood, not her mind".
Great breakdown! Love this kind of thing, hope it wakes a few guys up who don't realize they're the guy in the letter.
On a side note, the best response he could've emailed to her breaking up is:
via Heartiste
When people refer to choice, they are referring to the average male vs. average female. The average female exercises much more choice than the average male. The average female sitting in a bar by herself gets hit on by everyone, from losers to alphas. The average male in a bar gets hit on by no one, or at best, a fatty.
Don't forget all the married couples where you see an average male with a below average fatty.
I would hazard to say that a guy with tight game raises his level of choice to that of an average chick, which is still far beyond that of an average guy.
The average guy has a much harder time raising his choice than the average girl. The average guy has to develop tight game or earn a lot of status or money, but any guy who can achieve those things is, by definition, not average at all. The average girl just needs to show some skin, wear a push-up bra, and act friendly to raise her choice level.
[heartiste: you mean, to raise her choice level in men who are already willing to fuck her for at least a one night stand. showing skin does not improve a woman's chances to snag a higher quality man for commitment. in fact, it does just the opposite.]
Not exactly. Read this paragraph again:
The rejection may be more often indirect than direct (i.e. girls rarely approach, so when you don't return their eye-play, or when you ignore their flirting, it subconsciously registers as the equivalent of a direct rejection to them), but it's rejection nonetheless.
Women are the real initiators. Men simply respond to such encouragement. When men initiate, that's when women complain about being harassed. The only change I'd make in heartiste's statement is I'd strike "subconsciously" — that's not true in all cases.
"Women are the real initiators. Men simply respond to such encouragement. When men initiate, that's when women complain about being harassed"
Cold approach PUAs will approach girls who've given zero signals at all or don't even realize they're there and still work their game and do fine.
Harassment is when a guy is socially uncalibrated and can't tell he's making the girl uncomfortable. Two guys jump out of the shadows at a girl, one makes her laugh the other creeps her out. The first guy is a funny "how we met" story she'll tell for years after boning him. The second guy is a creep harassing her. The approach itself and whether there were signals for it or who initiated it is irrelevant.
I've found that naturals tend to wait for signals though. Even if it's just eye-contact.
I do it too. One of my natural buddies will ONLY do that.
The downside is that it forces you to hold back until you basically get approval from the girl to approach which means you're limiting your selection a bit from "I approach any girl I'm attracted to" to "I approach any girl who gives me the signals that she's into me".
For your own development, approach some girls 100% cold. Like their back is to you, no drive-by comment, just start spitting your game. It's good for the soul in two ways cause 1) you'll find a lot of girls are still receptive and now you've just unlocked another situation you're comfortable opening in, and 2) a lot of girls will be creeped out lol but the rejection will teach your brain that it's not the end of the world and you get to practice turning around awkward social situations and handling social pressure. After doing some sets like that, approaching a girl who responds to your drive-by comment is child's play. :)
|on March 19, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Having dated a guy who was fucking god damn gorgeous but troubled before he became famous, and then been pushed aside once he "arrived", I can say that this post rings very true to me. I'm not sure though that love is the issue.
Men love differently than women, and can love multiple women simultaneously. Social status is going to determine how he treats them though, especially when the guy is more alpha than just in your social group or neighborhood or something.
There is a minority of men who can actually let social concerns twist their emotions, but those men aren't what I'd call manly. Actual men seldom give a care to a woman's social status at all.
So a fat chick's fatness may reduce her social status, but if it doesn't detract from her overall beauty enough that she is truly less pretty rather than simply low status compared to the butterface gym bunny standing next to her, it's going to affect whether or not the guy commits but not touch his bonding or even territorial urges.
I do not envy a high status man's torment in a situation where he's in love with a low status woman and the maintenance of his social position depends on the judgement of less attractive, but higher status women and their lackeys…but that's the price you pay to play.
Wouldn't all this time you spend defending fat women be better spent at the gym?
Not all people.
I frequently say, that: although women claim that they do not like 'creepy' Beta guys and that the worst thing that can happen to them is to be pursued by someone they are not interested in; in fact the thing they cannot abide is rejection, for to reject a woman is to reject everything she stakes her reputation on – her looks and sexuality. Only as recently as last Friday but one, as I entered the bar I found myself being glared at by a woman – a flight attendant for a major airline, so you can tell she's good looking – because for one reason or another I have made it clear and very bluntly so that I am not interested. Women cannot tolerate this.
In sizing up a woman I am weighing up looks against sluttiness. If she is going to give me all I seek in bed, I will lower my standards, but if not they are as high as I am comfortable with.
My advice – gratis – to women , is for them to realise that their SMV is on a slow decline after 24 and that they should realise that they are nowhere near as hot as most of them think they are. If they realised that and were a little more pleasant and a little less slutty, they would not be so likely to receive rejection. It is rejection that fuels a lot of Feminism including the ridiculous slut-walks.
"a flight attendant for a major airline, so you can tell she's good looking"
Have you been on an airplane in the past twenty years?
lol ditto
I've given up the hopes of joining the mile-high club with a flight attendant. :(
I tell friends all the time: it's VERY easy to get laid. Any night I go out there's at least 1-3 girls that want to fuck me without me even doing anything. It's just that they're not hot lol
I reject a lot of girls, especially as I get older, but it's a lot more subtle a rejection. I just let the convo die and walk off or mention having a girlfriend, whereas an 18-yo turbo hottie will snub you hard or cut you off mid-sentence ice cold style.
When I was younger I didn't turn much down, a chick could be ditzy or not know how to dress sexy or not be a great lay and it wasn't a big deal, I just wanted the notches. But now I've been around enough to know what's worth my time.
I'll still talk to a girl that isn't worth fucking to keep my game sharp, but now they tend to just know that it's not going to happen, even if I'm flirty. They used to think they had a chance so I'd end up with these annoying clingy orbiter chicks I wasn't into and that was frustrating 'cause they'd cockblock me or nag me and shit. But my value has gone up since I was younger and now they just seem to know that there's no way it could happen. My financial state hasn't improved any, in fact it's gotten a lot worse lol But my value isn't tied to my financial state.
My natural buddy has been with some of the hottest girls I've ever seen. He's also been with some of the ugliest. He just doesn't care lol but when you see him leave the nightclub one week with a chubby drunk older chick who has 2 kids at home you can't talk much smack because a week later he'll be going home with the hottest shooter girl working there.
This all comes back to the "Thrill of the Hunt" VS "Pleasure of Sex" personality types:
A guy who needs regular sex (like my buddy) is much more likely to lower his standards than a guy who cares more about the hunt than the lay (like myself). I'd rather fuck it up with a turbo than wake up beside an uggo lol
How old are you?
Old enough to get into trouble, young enough to get away with it.
via Heartiste
Approach Anxiety has hindered my growth as a man. I get out to the bar or to the club and it's like I have cement in my shoes I've tried everything to force myself to do it. It's the worst feeling in the world to care too much and not be able to talk to the women you desire sexually.
I'd pay big money to get rid of the feeling. You said something in a previous post a few years back about how the popularity of online dating speaks volumes to how hard it is to approach a woman in the flesh. Truer words could never be spoken.
Maybe one day i'll be able to go after what i want. For some reason it's just a helpless feeling to stand there and not be able to walk over and say something.
"Maybe one day i'll be able to go after what i want. For some reason it's just a helpless feeling to stand there and not be able to walk over and say something."
You're able to. You've just created an identity for yourself of "I'm not someone who's able to approach" and are hiding behind it as an excuse. It's hard for all of us, even instructors. But they push themselves to do it.
Being rejected or weirding a girl out won't kill you. Go out and teach your brain that!
What does "cutting distance" and "getting in her face" mean specifically? Does this mean getting very, very close to someone, closer than American custom would usually provided for?
What is meant by your tweet: "Malthusian adjustment vs economic growth: this will be the question of the age." I am not exactly sure what you mean by Malthusian adjustment, but if I were to guess it seems odd that you are presenting MA and EG as a choice when I would think they would work in tandem, that is, economic growth would lead us invariably to a Malthusian adjustment.
"What does "cutting distance" and "getting in her face" mean specifically? Does this mean getting very, very close to someone, closer than American custom would usually provided for?"
Yes. Examples:
Watch at 0:07, 0:15, 0:20, 0:26, 0:38, and 0:45
Watch at 2:52
Watch at 5:53 and 7:03
"Staring a woman down until she lowers her eyes or looks askance will trigger the submissiveness reflex, and that is a place where she secretly yearns to be."
Good stuff, but What about holding heavy eye contact with a girl during the day.
For example, Roosh in Day Game advises "no prolonged eye contact during day" because it telegraphs heavy interest – which will make an indirect ramble on an innocuous subject less believable because you are already telegraphing your interest in her, and sabotage the pickup
"Good stuff, but What about holding heavy eye contact with a girl during the day."
Go try it on 10-20 women and let us know how it went.
Is it really a good idea to stare at people in the street ?
Won't you end up getting punched in the face at one point ?
Go out and try it every day for a couple weeks. Let us know if you got punched, then we'll all know the answer to your question.
The ability to maintaining eye contact is THE most important skill a man can learn. Not just for game, but for everyday life.
Every time you begin an interaction with someone, a small non-verbal war begins to see who will dominate the conversation. Eye contact is the primary weapon.
The good news is that it's a learned behavior, so you can train yourself to do it. Just practice looking in people's eyes until they look away first. Don't get discouraged if, at first, you give into the urge to look away. Just keep practicing. Make it a point to practice it every day.
I will maintain eye contact with a man until he looks away first. Maintaining it any more can be interpreted as a sign of aggression.
With women, I try maintain eye contact until they have made and broken contact three times. It unnerves them a little bit. The hamster wheel starts spinning. Keep in mind, this usually only takes one or two seconds. The only exception is if they start rattling on about something uninteresting. Then I purposefully let them see me break contact and start ignoring them.
If you want to be a more dominate person, this should be your first assignment. Go to a check out girl at a grocery store, fast food restaurant, convenience store. Not someone you wan to pick up, just someone you interact with on a semi-regular basis. Put a cocky smirk on your face. Make eye contact with them and maintain it until they make and break eye contact with you three times. You'll be amazed at how much more receptive they become to you.
You mean you keep staring a woman until she has made and broken eye contact 3 times? That's quite long yeah?
I THINK he means once he's already in a conversation with her, not before the approach.
|on March 14, 2012 at 4:24 pm
You know, musicians use beta blockers to ward off stage fright. I wonder is if would help with approach anxiety.
Booze too.
You also won't have improved yourself as a man. You'll just be putting a bandaid over a problem and become dependant on them. Like the guy who can't approach a hot girl in the daytime because he's dependant on downing a couple beers before he can overcome his anxiety.
It works, you just aren't really fixing yourself internally. Same way getting lipsuction doesn't teach you good eating habits or winning the lottery doesn't teach you financial responsibility.
I witnessed this in a strip club in 2001. The hottest stripper came up to our dorky group and my much younger 23 year old friend calmly moved toward her as she started running her stripper game. He wasn't saying much, if anything but his face was inches from hers with intense eye contact. Don't know what he said to her but she called him the next day at work.
You don't actually need to say much. Because the subcommunications are so intense and sexual you can just mumble slow bored small talk. This works like when you can't get kino and sexual subcommunications in so you make verbal innuendo instead. It's that opposite "saying one thing and doing the other" deal.
"where you from…cool…you having fun? ya…that's good…" while you're practically nose to nose and locked on her eyes.
There was actually an entire PUA method based around this concept of "heavy sexual sun communications offset with non-sexual small-talk" but it's concepts have been merged into modern pickup theory these days.
Too many beta-tard comments on here about eye contact shit. Like it really all comes down to your eyes and how long you stare and how you stare and if you blink twice you get a blowjob and blah blah blah….ya ya ya…
EC is one of a whole shit ton of non-verbal cues between you and your target. So if you stare too long or not long enough or whatever…doesnt fucking matter if you never approach…
What CH and YaReally are saying is that on the onset of an approach, Alpha EC will reverse the frame and invoke an "AA like" anxious pang in your target; which is true.
AA exists in all men. Period. How/why it exists? Eh, who gives a shit.
How do you get through it? Will power. *self forced conditioning*. Execute. Do it.
The more you go through it, the more conditioned you become to it, and the logical side of your brain learns how to "manage" it (suppress outer non-verbal cues, invoke supportive inner thoughts).
It's a skill. It can be learned (as is all GAME). If you're still making excuses like you have some special acute sand-in-your-vagina condition and you can't approach…straight up, you're a pussy and you're weak. Do man kind a favor and don't pro create and pass on your bitch DNA.
Approach Anxiety = Action Weakness
lol my fav way of putting it is from one of Tyler's speeches. He says something like "I'm exactly like you. I get the same anxiety and I don't feel like socializing after working all day and I start the night feeling out of state and my brain tries to convince me not to approach. But by going out consistently, I've trained myself to follow a set of steps to force myself OUT of that mode and into a good state."
He means stuff like talk to the first girl you see (ugly or hot doesn't matter) when you enter the bar before getting a drink or anything. Talk to people on the way to the bar. Approach within 3 seconds. Etc etc.
Hmm, but what's the fine line between meeting everyone's gaze, and staring people down and making them uncomfortable the wrong way?
Go stare people down every day for 2 weeks and let us know where that line is.
|on March 14, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Physiologically there is no difference between anxiety and excitement.
Approach excitement not anxiety.
Great reframe!
Off topic:
Look at this crime
what has been seen….
Tyler on approach anxiety and getting himself in state and how he reframes having anxiety as a GOOD thing because it means he gets a chance to practice the skill of getting over it. Now
THAT'S a reframe.
via Rational Male
Don't read while eating. Or while hoping to have a boner sometime in the next week. So depressing.
Why don't guys want to marry these "beautiful, accomplished, sexy, incredible, incredibly skilled, affluent, athletic women" now that they're done sucking a bunch of cocks and are ready to settle down with a Nice Guy??? Come on guys, man-up!!!
via Heartiste
I'm not disagreeing with any of the criticisms of modern women (to use the term loosely) in this post. But, I just don't buy this idea that the lack of thin, attractive, marriage prospects is the cause of the explosion of obese, video game-playing, perpetual man-children in our society. Isn't it just basic self-respect/self-preservation that causes us to work hard to be the best at our careers? Isn't it just basic self-respect/self-preservation that makes us normal people want to take care of our bodies?
I don't need the prospect of marriage to want to do these things, and I can't imagine that most other men do either. I look around at the guys I went to high school with and most are morbidly obese, work at menial jobs that require no skills or education, are obsessed with professional sports, dress like children, lack basic hygiene, cannot hold a basic conversation about any intellectual subject, etc. These guys were like this in high school – before the thought of marriage ever entered our minds.
Let's face it. There is some fundamental flaw in our society that is failing to properly socialize young men. We can't keep pretending that if women would just lose weight, that these problems would be solved. The problem goes much deeper than that and is mostly independent of the problems discussed in this post. I just finished reading "Coming Apart" and Murray is spot on. I face the same challenges as other men when it comes to the current dating market, but I feel like there is an entire generation of men who I can't even relate to. They are just sorry excuses for human beings and I'm not going to apologize for them because they have penises. Flame on.
I can see where you're coming from, Nathan, but…
I like to think I'm pretty intelligent. I enjoy reading and learning about stuff just because I like it and I feel I can use the learning to my benefit in my life. I enjoy some crafts skills like taking a knife to a piece of wood and carving a little statuette of an old man or a simple functional eating utensil, and I enjoy some sports, for the pleasure of seeing what I can do and create, and feeling good about my physical being and health, and being able to do things. I like knowing I can run this long, or walk that long with a heavy rucksack, or shoot this well. I like spending time with my friends and family and doing stuff with them. All of it gives me pleasure. I don't do it for women. But I don't do it for society either, only because I myself want to do it and like it.
That brings me to work and career. What if I don't get anything that I like from working my ass off and pursuing some supposedly illustrious career? What then? If I don't get off on sitting in the office, stressing about my calendar, planning shit that doesn't really mean anything except a few more tens/hundreds/thousands of a thousand dollars for the company? If there's no field of work I feel passionate or skilled enough to be able and willing to pursue it as a career? Should I pursue to become vice president of company X just for the title, work the long hours just for the paycheck that I couldn't find any use for? I could buy a bigger place and car, but what for? Who's gonna respect me more if I pursue such a career? Not anyone I care that much about. Why do I need their respect? I don't care about them at all. They're just other animals. I won't work to hurt them, but I won't work to become popular with them either, unless there's something in it for me that I want. Should I waste my days at work, and wear myself out with stress and effort, and spend less time doing things I enjoy, like reading or working out, or hell, even playing the occasional video game? Gran Turismo 5 is fucking great.
If I have a "simple" or at least simpler job, with friendly steady and predictable working hours and nice long weekends off and a modest but adequate pay check, and I'm happy with this, why the F would I pursue a "successful career" with a big title and big pay but shitty hours and lots more stress and wear and tear on my poor little brain? What if I don't find such work/career centric life constructive, but a waste of time that could be spent on more pleasurable things, from working out to hitting on women?
I'm looking out for myself. Most other people are not looking out for my interests, so I gotta do it. Other guys are the same. They'll work enough to get money for their hobbies and other pleasures, but they won't pursue big careers just because someone says they should. Does that make them and me man-children? I don't see how. Makes them rational, more like.
But as for those who'll not do any work, nor take care of their health in any way, who hide in some hole to rot and wither and keep away from humanity… well, there is a thing called depression, and it's more common every day I'd guess. It's easy to be depressed in this world. We may be surrounded by safety and material welfare, but also trouble: we're blamed for all the world's miseries just because we're neither poor nor black, our parents don't know how to be parents, our traditional extended family / village / tribe social network is gone or in scattared pieces, nobody loves us, nobody gives a fuck, except the government, who gives a lot of fucks to get our money to support more social programs and immigration and save-the-whales-of-Rwanda programs. Our food is unhealthy, the air is polluted, and we live in cold concrete prisons, far from the friendly sounds of nature and the clear air. Hell, what's there not to be depressed about. Life, on the other hand, can suck. These dudes won't "man up" no matter how much they're shamed. They'll man up only if they have to, in order to survive, and in that case many will still fail and die. They'll man up if they get professional help, or the right words from the right person that I give a damn about, and that's not always easy to make happen.
There's another thing, too. It's called being the bottom of the barrel. Nowadays it's verboten to say or even think it, but we're not all the same, every man an equal. Some of us have great talents, some have no talents. Most fall in between. These days, a lot of people survive that would never have survived in the wilderness of the old. Every day I go out the door I see bazillions of people that make me think: "You. If we turned the clock back 3000 years, you would be dead, or a different man. You'd never survive in that world. But here today? You can drag that meaty ass around safely, and no-one will kill and eat you because you can't hold a weapon and can't run without falling over breathless and helpless and don't have the brains to design a trap to catch some food for your heroic self. Probably you would have died of sickness as a baby." Nature's waste disposal system doesn't work. We broke it. Don't be surprised if there's waste around, that's what you get from it.
Harsh words. Yeah, but I don't see that the general idea is so much mistaken from what the reality is.
Classic story relating to your bit about "They'll work enough to get money for their hobbies and other pleasures, but they won't pursue big careers just because someone says they should. Does that make them and me man-children?":
"There was once a businessman who was sitting by the beach in a small Brazilian village.
As he sat, he saw a Brazilian fisherman rowing a small boat towards the shore having caught quite few big fish.
The businessman was impressed and asked the fisherman, "How long does it take you to catch so many fish?"
The fisherman replied, "Oh, just a short while."
"Then why don't you stay longer at sea and catch even more?" The businessman was astonished.
"This is enough to feed my whole family," the fisherman said.
The businessman then asked, "So, what do you do for the rest of the day?"
The fisherman replied, "Well, I usually wake up early in the morning, go out to sea and catch a few fish, then go back and play with my kids. In the afternoon, I take a nap with my wife, and evening comes, I join my buddies in the village for a drink — we play guitar, sing and dance throughout the night."
The businessman offered a suggestion to the fisherman.
"I am a PhD in business management. I could help you to become a more successful person. From now on, you should spend more time at sea and try to catch as many fish as possible. When you have saved enough money, you could buy a bigger boat and catch even more fish. Soon you will be able to afford to buy more boats, set up your own company, your own production plant for canned food and distribution network. By then, you will have moved out of this village and to Sao Paulo, where you can set up HQ to manage your other branches."
The fisherman continues, "And after that?"
The businessman laughs heartily, "After that, you can live like a king in your own house, and when the time is right, you can go public and float your shares in the Stock Exchange, and you will be rich."
The fisherman asks, "And after that?"
The businessman says, "After that, you can finally retire, you can move to a house by the fishing village, wake up early in the morning, catch a few fish, then return home to play with kids, have a nice afternoon nap with your wife, and when evening comes, you can join your buddies for a drink, play the guitar, sing and dance throughout the night!"
The fisherman was puzzled, "Isn't that what I am doing now?""
via Heartiste
Twitter update about approach anxiety…
They should run the woman side of the study with different men until they find out what sort of male observation can impair a woman's cognitive abilities.
[heartiste: this would be a worthy experiment. my guess: women would experience "approached anxiety" being approached by high social status men, famous men, very wealthy men whose wealth was public knowledge, men who were seen the whole night with other women and thus preselected, extremely good looking men (in the top 5% of looks only), and men running game. dropping a neg on a chick can instantly elicit a happy anxiety in her.]
"what sort of male observation can impair a woman's cognitive abilities."
Confidently cutting the space between the two of you (ie – get in her face) while locking eye contact.
Very few women can form a coherent sentence in that situation.
[heartiste: yep, that's the biggest one. striding over to a girl while maintaining eye contact will take her right off her game. girls melt for unstoppable confidence.]
A smokin hot 18yo girl I see at the club regularly purposely practices this. She always cuts the space and puts her arm around a guy and is practically nose to nose and stares him in the eyes and talks to him about whatever.
She's literally teaching herself the seduction skillset at 18 that guys learning game don't start practicing till they're in their 20s-40s+. It's interesting to see in action…guaranteed she has men wrapped around her finger for the rest of her life.
Your "sense of entitlement" is basically "how hot can the other person be for you to not be nervous around them?" She's building a massively huge sense of entitlement because she can stare down pretty much any guy an inch away and make small talk and the guy will always flinch first and look around the room and stammer and she chalks up another reference experience of her being high value.
When she meets a guy who can approach and stare her down without being nervous? Because his sense of entitlement tells him that he shouldn't be nervous around her? He's the guy who fucks her.
need to blatantly steal some quick tips:
1. cute 7 grocery store clerk.
-saw her last week, was super flirty with me
-very brief contact
Now I want to get her number, but am not sure what would be the best way to go about it. I basically want some clever openers that I could use, or maybe conversational ideas. I want to do this preferably direct, go in, get number, and then get out of dodge.
[heartiste: direct? try this. "i'm impressed." wait for her to answer. "you can flirt and scan my food at the same time." another option that's more direct and less flirty: "write your number on my receipt. no time to explain. i'll tell you over drinks."]
Talk to 10 people on your way to the grocery store and while you shop.
New video by Tyler Durden just went up. The definitive video on day game in my opinion. "The only difference between day game and night game is that the sun is out."
Wish this video had been posted back when day game was being discussed lol so I'm just throwing it on here so people who don't visit RSD don't miss it.
It's long (half an hour) but the shit he talks about in this video is 100% legit.
The game remains the same but the environment fucks with your head. Anyone who's hung with a pussy-obsessed Stiffler-type natural who's "on" 24/7 will have seen him successfully do the same stuff he does in the day that he does at night. You could too, if you could forge the same mindset as him.
via Heartiste
I can't control whether a girl likes me or not. But I can control whether I take action and approach her.
Will I base my worth, confidence, value, state, self-esteem, etc. on the reaction I get? No, that would be silly. I'll base it on whether I took action or not.
Outcome independance: I'll approach, because it's important to me to take action. But if she doesn't like me, that's alright…and the fact that that's alright is why she likes me.
via Rational Male
Unfortunately we live in a spectator society now, especially in North America.
Do we go out and socialize and talk to the opposite sex? Nah. Just flip on Jersey Shore and live vicariously through them as they do those things.
Do we go exploring nature and learn to camp, fish, build a fire, and survive? Nah. Let's just watch other people do that on Survivor.
Do we travel the world? Nah, let's watch other people do that on Amazing Race.
Do we exercise and keep thin and healthy? Nah, let's order pizza while we watch other people do that on The Biggest Loser.
Do we start a business? Nah, let's watch other people do that on Dragon's Den and other entrepreneurial shows.
Do we pursue our dreams of becoming famous singers or dancers or making a living off our personal talents/hobbies? Nah, let's watch other people do that on American Idol and Americas Got Talent.
Do we go out and talk to girls? Nah, let's just read game blogs. 😉
And then tomorrow morning we'll go back to our mundane job we hate working for a boss we don't like, trapped in a relationship we settled for, running out of breath walking up a flight of stairs, and sing in the shower until the next chance we get to escape our shitty lackluster lives when the next episode is on TV.
It really is a sad state of affairs. Most people are just waiting to die. Cancel your cable, sell your Xbox, limit your Internet usage, quit watching pickup seminars, and go live life.
via Heartiste
The choke Olivia quotes are hilarious. Even funnier should be a male-osphere twitter response mirroring all the all-caps advice given to Rihanna regarding Chris Brown. NO NO NO, LEAVE HIM GIRL!!1112123!212 don't lets him chokez you. lololol..
Anyway…"Just try not to think about the torrid sexual abandon your sweet snoogumwoogums is capable of unleashing in bed, in the kitchen, in a public restroom, with a better man for that one week her womb can actually bear fruit." Yeah, hang out with a natural and see bitches on their bachelorette party night decide to bang a random stanger. And THAT should clear up the matter, less alphaish doesn't mean you morph into "surprise I have a penis game" and watch lifetime with her.
For the record I didn't come up with the "Surprise! I have a penis!" label. Real Social Dynamics (Jeffy specifically if I remember right) coined it a few years back when pickup started exploring more direct game.
It's a perfect description though.
via Heartiste
WHY do women want to ride the alpha cock carousel when it is quite clear that such relationships will go nowhere for the woman?
I mean, let's elaborate:
Almost never is there marriage, let alone a relationship waiting at the end of it.
Especially for an 18 – 21 chick with, say, a guy 15 years older in 30s or 40s.
You could say "Pre-selection": Yes – but pre-selection for what – if the fling clearly isn't going to go anywhere to begin with.
Wondering what the crowd here thinks about this explanation, from Robert Greene's description of "Rake" (read: cad alpha) in "Art of Seduction." :
"A woman strives to be the tender, civilizing force in society, virtuous and decent, and inevitably faces a routine life with a distracted mate. The Rake's promise of an affair of pure pleasure, an exciting brush with danger and taboo by a pleasant, dashing man who lives only for her – if only for a while is irresistible. Throughout history, the Rake type has been fatal for women"
But then he gives an unusual twist:
"The most common misconception about rakes is that they are cold creatures, who use and discard women at a fantastic rate. In fact, rakes are very emotional, and they are prone to fall deeply in love with a woman.
The problem is that in the course of their lives they will fall in love with hundreds, or in the case of Errol Flynn, thousands of women. A Rake is a machine for falling in love. This can last for a few days, months, or even years. But they fall quickly out of love, as the enchantment wears off and the next prey appears on the horizon.
"Now, most rakes can have a strong effect on certain women. That is because when they fall in love, for that short period, they give themselves over to the woman in a complete manner, one that is rare for a man. This is devastatingly seductive. It also shows the weakness such a man has for a woman.
Using Bill Clinton as an example Greene says: "Women are the first to forgive the foibles of a Clinton, because they understand deep down inside that he is weak, and his weakness is women. And this is charming. So many times, as men, We think women want this boldness, or this alpha demonstration, etc. We end up so wrong.
That is what makes a Rake such a powerful seducer. He is invariably a man who has spent much time with women, understands their psychology (as best as a man can) and yet remains very much a man.
His desire for you is so powerful you have no time to think of the consequences. Intense desire has a distracting power on a woman."
So the thinking here is this: that part of the appeal to ride the carousel for women is this so-called "Intense Desire of the Alpha": unusual to a woman, also flattering to her as a female… and, finally, a useful "distraction" for her seducer.
Where I disagree is he's claiming the desire is real… and not a put on by a PUA. I think it could be a combo of both, or of course — sometimes – just a put on.
I fall in love with every girl I flirt with, to some extent.
That love might only last for a make out in the bar, or a one night stand, or a few months of being fuckbuddies, or a few years of dating…
But in the time that we're together, that girl feels like she's the only girl in the world to me. Even if she heard thru the grapevine that I fucked her friend and sees the picture of my GF on my nightstand and my phone is buzzing with txts from other girls, the way I bring her into my bubble she feels an intense passionate love she can't resist.
Of course as soon as she leaves my apartment, the next girl feels that same love. It's all the same on my end.
A lot of guys get into pickup thru a bitter hate for women cause they got burned and that's how they found the community. And in the more advanced guys a lot of them end up too mindfucked by the things they see and experience women doing once they've taken the red pill (hypergamy and cheating and cuckolding and shit) so they get disillusioned and hate women. They're the guys that call me a hidden white knight or whatever because I like to give girls orgasms and I just accept that girls will lie, cheat, etc without holding any resentment against them for it.
Those guys learn to fake the love over their bitter disillusioned insides, and it works just fine.
But his mind will be in a much healthier headspace when he learns to simply accept women for the flawed creatures they are and protect himself (financially, emotionally, etc). Once that's solidified you're free to open up and love women as a whole.
I can express my emotions to you, but at the same time I can understand not to let your judgement or reaction to those emotions affect me to my core.
When you're beta, you express yourself to seek approval from girls, society, etc. "is it okay for me to feel like this?"
When you're alpha, you express yourself out of an honesty and unashamed refusal to apologize for who you are. "this is how I feel. You may accept it or not but this is who I am."
A lot of guys who watch me game are surprised at how honest I am with girls. Why do girls admire singers, artists, etc? Those are guys who are expressing themselves and refusing to let society tell them "your song is gay" or "this painting is stupid" etc.
I wouldn't have wasted my time doing that to her if I didn't love her to some extent, the aftermath clean-up time was retarded lol
"I gotta wonder about the validity of the stories you tell now and what level of society you come from."
She's a hot 22 year old who doesn't go to bars very often who works as a dental assistant in a financially well-off high-class city, and she can afford to buy sexy dresses from sex shops to wear for me (ie – she's not a trailer trash bar star in a college town). We fuck stone-cold sober too (even during "the incident").
You would never ever guess she was as crazy in bed as she is. Her friends have no idea and never will.
"That is some trailer trash conduct."
That belief is exactly why you will never see this side of girls or be a part of this Matrix-like world that's going on all around you.
P.S. Read this comment on another post, since you are exactly the type of guy I'm talking about in this comment and your attitude is exactly what allows me to do the things with women (including your girlfriends, wives, sisters, mothers, etc.) that I do.
Sorry for the mindfuck. I'm sure you'll reject it anyway since it conflicts with your reality and ultimately limited experience in this particular area of seduction, sexuality, and female psychology.
Doesn't matter to me ultimately, it's your sex life. You don't have to know, understand, or accept that this exists in the world around you to have a satisfying and full-filling life in general. I'm just knocking off the rose-colored glasses for fun since I have more experience than probably 99.9% of Manosphere blog commenters and no one seems to censor me here lol
Yep. "Accept me or don't, it's fine either way, there's another girl who looks just like you around the corner."
If he had apologized and backpeddaled like she expected him to, he wouldn't be the alpha mofo he is. You might not agree with his opinion, you might not like his opinion, but he won't apologize to you for it.
"i've told girls i've loved them before and not needed to hear it back"
ya, this is the nuance newbies don't get about buying a girl drinks or bringing her flowers or whatever. You can do that shit when you're doing it from a place of "I want to do this and don't care if you like it and reciprocate or not" VS "Will this convince you to like me? Please?? Do you approve of me now?"
Ironically as an AFC you're extremely honest and up-front about your feelings, then as you learn pickup you learn to hide all of that shit and put up a front while you learn to internalize alpha behaviors and attitudes…but once you come out the other side, you actually return full-circle to being extremely honest and up-front about your feelings except now you're coming from a much different place internally than you were when you were an AFC.
This is why Direct Game works when you're actually legitimately sexually attracted to the woman ("goddamn she's cute!! who the fuck is SHE??") and have your basic alpha subcommunications down, but bombs miserably when you're using it as a "technique" ("they said to tell her she's cute and I just had to meet her, what a brilliant line I hope it works!") or don't have your subcommunications down.
I love you.
via Heartiste
Guys waiting on a girl's period to get laid is super gay. She'll fuck you at any time of the month (yes even the same night you meet her) if your game is tight. I had a buddy who was obsessed with trying to figure out the signs a girl is on her period so he could approach blah blah. Fucking retarded.
All that is is ego-protection. You're waiting for a green light so you can hopefully avoid being rejected. It's like not approaching until you have a million dollar career or a 6-pack or waiting for the girl to make the first move.
Just approach and tighten your game up. You learn more about game from the difficult sets than the easy ones and you learn more about yourself as a man when you overcome adverse conditions than when you fall ass-backwards into an easy victory.
via Heartiste
A lot of fears get blown out of proportion in these comments. Facts men should keep in mind:
1. On average, women cheat much less than men.
[heartiste: mostly true. I would be careful about using a qualifier like "much less". recent studies are showing a convergence between men and women's cheating rates. this is in part due to a general emasculation of the men and concomitant de-feminization of the women in culturally decaying nations.]
2. Women have lower sex drives than men.
[true. but this doesn't mean women aren't sexually aggressive when intimate with men they love.]
3. Women are evolutionarily-favored to pair-bond with one mate.
[meta-analysis of studies examining the issue conclude that humanity is primarily monogamous, with polygynous tendencies. this ratio may (probably does) vary by race. women are evolutionarily favored to pair-bond, but also to get impregnated by an alpha cad when beta partner isn't looking. modern contraceptives mostly thwart the female ideal of cuckoldry and duped beta resource and parental extraction, but the urge still exists.]
4. Cuckolding is very rare statistically.
[see above editorial comment. the rarity of cuckoldry is in dispute, and i have seen figures range from 2%-10% for the general population, and as high as 30% for the self-selected population of men who have reason to doubt paternity. so while cuckoldry may be rare, the incidence of women fucking around with alpha interlopers is likely not as rare.]
Hypergamous impulses are real, as is the female preference for dark triad traits during ovulation. But the good news is that it is possible for women to find both alpha and beta provider traits in the same man. You just have to be able to read them.
[precisely. this is what a lot of game is about.]
If you are having regular sex with your woman, the chance that she is off doing some guy in a bathroom stall is VERY slight.
[heartiste: true. also, to be extra sure of fidelity, be attuned to how much pleasure she is receiving from your carnal ministrations. if she lays there like a dead fish, you may be gazing into the eyes of a woman thinking about some other man.]
Whereas men could do the maid in the morning, the secretary during the day, and the wife at night, women typically will only sleep with one man at a time.
[absolutely correct. and a point we here at CH have been making since day one. it takes an incredibly souldead slut to handle fucking two men at once for any prolonged period of time. those types of women are exceedingly rare.]
On the other hand, when your girlfriend/wife stops sleeping with you, that's trouble.
[and how do you spell trouble? with a capital I-H-A-V-E-A-H-E-A-D-A-C-H-E.]
Women cheat a shitload but then don't count it as cheating, and other women back them up:
via Heartiste
Love it! Yes, our favorite things are your time and your attention. And we have to be exasperated that we don't get it once in a while too :)
Ya, chicks love emotional ups AND downs. That's why they watch soap operas and reality tv and shit. Nothing is worse than a flatline.
Attractive guy:
– gives her attention, then vanishes for a week
– forgets their anniversary, remembers her birthday
– slaps her around in bed, cuddles with her after
– spits in her face and chokes her in bed one night, lights candles and has sensual romantic sex the next
– makes fun of her shirt, tries to kiss her
– kisses her, then gets distracted and ignores her as he chats with his buddies
– forgets when they make special plans, surprises her with a nice dinner
– makes her feel like the only girl in the world, flirts with the waitress with the nice ass
Her emotions go: /\/\/\/\/
Boring guy:
– remembers every special occasion
– predictably buys gifts each time
– same sex over and over
– can always be counted on
– never leaves his girl's side in public
– never flirts with other girls
– calls 10x a day to reassure her she's The One
Her emotions go: ———
This is why being an asshole and even purposely pissing girls off as an opener works if you understand how to recover and balance it out. The chick doesn't need to only feel good emotions she needs to feel ANY emotions.
That's why Rhianna goes back to Chris Brown and the White Knights are baffled. He's giving her /\/\/ not —— and her gina tingles.
Not kidding. Read "The Sex God Method".
I'd say the number one reason girls cheat on their significant others with me is because they've fallen into routine predictable couple "schedule it in if we have some free time and no DVDs to watch" sex.
I'm a goddamn adventure playground to them lol
|on March 6, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Think I found the girl for me.
The hotter they are the nastier they get. Thank Fucking God.
lol I should post some of the txts I get.
It's awesome to see public reaction to that stuff. "no way it's real a girl would never txt that" and shit from both men and women.
Those Hackers exposed the "Secret Society" in action:
When you're a part of it, this is standard shit, when you're not a part of it every girl will pretend to be an angel and pretend other girls are all angels. Certain guys will never ever know it exists. Most girls will only show their secret society side to the appropriate guys…so she'll txt her BF "drive safe love you baby xoxoxo" and then seconds later txt a secret society guy "god I want your cock my pussy is so wet…"
The funniest to me is always that the girls are usually super horny when they start texting like that and I'll be texting back like I'm super horny too and helping them get off but really I'm making a sandwich or playing Xbox at a buddy's place or whatever.
The invention of texting was epic for guys with game. You can keep a girl horny for you all day long, thinking of your cock while she's at work with nobody knowing which pays off in spades sexually when you hook up that night or if you go silent on her and suddenly stop texting for a few days. I make them send pics from their work bathrooms and tease them about "what would your co-workers think if they knew what a dirty little slut you were…I bet you love it." and all that shit.
A lot of guys are like "texting is for pussies, real men call" blah blah. Those guys suck at txt game. I usually try to get a girl texting like Olivia Munn before our first date (txt em past 10pm when they're in bed and turn the convo sexual vs texting friend zoney shit), that's why I usually (sometimes I still need to build some face to face comfort, depends on her personality) don't have to take them to restaurants or anything, our first "date" is them coming over horny as fuck since I laid the groundwork in advance.
Sometimes I'll even make pretend plans to go to a fancy restaurant or whatever because I know I can just escalate fast and we'll end up stayin in and I'll save my $ lol
"7. My phone is now like a magic poon securing device. I just text the particulars of the service I like to a particular number and then, boom, the service will be waiting for me. Like a pizza. This is the future right now. Three hearty cheers for texting."
lol'ed out loud
And ya, young chicks (18 to 22-ish) love txting. A phone call is weird to them. Even older cougar chicks are learning to do it and like it because it makes them feel like they're hip and young keeping up with dating trends.
It's a mindfuck to see that a lot of cougars are actually worse at spelling/grammar/punctuation than 18yos. Like wtf?
""Let's see how far I can wind him up, while I think about what to make for lunch." Usually resulting in the guy sending pics of his erect member, then his jizz"
lol don't worry. One day you'll meet an actual alpha male.
"So…is this true?"
From what I've seen. When they're txting him. In front of me. After we've finished fucking and she's trying to come up with an excuse for why she's so late coming home.
Or when they txt me bits of their convos with their BFs to laugh at and then follow it with "god I want your cock so bad right now…"
Or when I'm fingering them while they're on the phone shooting the shit with their BF as they blush trying not to sound strange on the phone as they cum.
It doesn't mean if they're not sexting you they're definitely sexting someone else. But if your girlfriend isn't sexting you…..that should be something you pay attention to in general for the health of your relationship.
"How do you know if your shnookum wookums is doing that?"
I can't tell you how to know but I can tell you why most guys WOULDN'T know: judgement.
When you're with a significant other that you hope to secure a future, family, home, etc with you don't want to scare them off. So girls will tone down their kinky desires because a lot of guys are prudish and lame and will judge them for saying Olivia Munn shit. Cause if they weird the guy out, he leaves and they just lost a perfect white-pickett future.
So they'll sit there with a bunch of fucked up twisted My Secret Garden fantasies they think about during sex/masturbating but never get to really live them out.
Then along comes an alpha guy with game who's just a fling. There's no consequence to weirding him out so if he has tight sexual game and knows how to read what type of girl she is and get her sexting about her fantasies, and he gives off a clear non-judgmental vibe where she feels she can tell him anything and he wont think she's a slut or freak, she'll let it all hang out because it's a safe space.
This is why my experiences tend to be a lot more fucked up than other guys who get laid a lot. A lot of naturals are just "I banged her doggy style man it was awesome" or don't care about getting her off. I'm very specifically digging into the depths of her sexual nature and desires and helping her live out a lot of her fantasies society has made her feel ashamed of having.
The end result is her BF gets the "miss you babe I'll be home soon xoxoxo" txts and I get the Olivia Munn stuff from the same girl. The BF will never ever ever know what his girl is truly like deep down, the way I do.
It's like the Joker in Batman Begins when he talks about killing the cops with a knife and how in their final moments they show you who they really are so in a way he knows them better than their friends.
Part of why girls come back to me over and over and generally don't sleep around once we've started hooking up is because they know its rare for a guy to be able to show them the sexual world I show them and once they've opened up those twisted dark parts of their mind they've been so scared to share with anyone, it's such a relief that they don't want to fuck things up with me because to get that amazing sex they crave they'd have to go through that scary confession stage again with another guy who might not be so tolerant of her kinks.
In the girls defense, they often legitimately love their man and really do want a future with him. They just aren't sexually satisfied and don't know how to bring the subject up with their S.O. or they've tried and have been snubbed or they're just too scared to admit it to ANYONE (sometimes even themselves)…so they're just taking care of the need on the side.
I could easily say "I'm now in love with you lets go to dinner" and give off enough provider vibe to make them leave their man but I don't want that, I just want the sex. I like when they just come over in a sexy outfit, we fuck for a few hours, and she goes home. No date/couple stuff (I have a main girl for that).
So I'll specifically say "you better not fall in love with me. This is sex only. If you break up with your guy you will never hear from me again." and snuff that out every now and then. Keep my txting to only sexual conversations, no talking about how her day at work was or friends bullshit, and only see her max once a week and irregularly so I'm never a sure thing she can feel like she can rely on.
I like this blog cause it's a halfway point between MSM and PUA. MSM has already written PUAs off as silly fuzzy hats raping drunk bar sluts. PUA blogs are too unacceptable to the MSM.
But the Chateau presents stuff just bordering on unacceptable so the MSM can occasionally acknowledge the content here.
Except for the shitting thing.
[heartiste: ima goddamn diplomat for poon!]
15 rules to staying safe being the Other Guy:
1) Don't let the girl know much about you. They generally don't know my last name, what I do for a living, my E-Mail address, Facebook name, anything past my address and phone number. Even those I wouldn't give out if I didn't have to, I'm tempted to get a second phone number just for chicks since a Google of it by an angry BF/husband will find all my info. Often I'll have them put my name as Julie or something in their phone too, for prying eyes.
For one night stands I'll often say my address to the cabby quietly and when we get to my place, distract them when we're in the elevator with a makeout/etc. so they don't pay attention to what floor we're on, and I'll distract them again as I open the door so they don't pay attention to what apartment they're going into lol If I'm super paranoid (ie – their guy is a big jealous dude) I'll walk them down in the morning and distract them again in the elevator.
Regular chicks have to know my address because I don't have a car, don't have money for a hotel room, and don't want to travel to get laid (not to mention if they live with their BF/husband I don't want to shit in his territory), so it's necessary for them to know how to get to my place.
One regular fuckbuddy was like "I just realized that if I lost my phone or my BF made me delete your number or something I'd have no way to get in touch with you again." lol
2) Don't go out in public with her, and if you do, keep things casual and friendly until you have 100% assurance that her guy isn't around, or going to be around, or COULD be around, and that none of her friends are around. This means passing up the lay sometimes. Safety first though. Her nosy best friend comes back from the bathroom and sees the two of you making out and it's drama-city and the beautiful secret tryst you guys had going implodes.
If you're certain her guy isn't around (like he's out of town…if he's "out with his boys", there's a chance his boys will happen to decide to drink at the same bar you're groping his girlfriend at) and her friends either don't know him or don't care if she cheats (a girl's BFF will often not care because she's seen her friend cheat before and they're BFFs 4evAR), still be cautious about it. I like to build the sexual tension by keeping kino minimal while we blab or dance, but as soon as it's crowded enough around us that no one's paying attention or if the place is dead enough that I can sneak her into the bathroom, then let loose. A good one is to set up a roleplay where you pretend not to know eachother then meet up in the bathroom or outside in an alley and fuck eachother's brains out, then go back inside pretending not to know eachother.
Ideally though, keep things to the bedroom. Have other girls who aren't taken that you can go out with or go out with your boys. This girl is just for sex, she already has a boyfriend she can go out with.
3) Don't see her more than once a week. She'll get attached and start thinking stupid thoughts about ditching her boy and living happily ever after with you.
4) Don't do romantic shit. No watching movies cuddled up together, no chit-chatting about her day at work. Every conversation is heavily sexual and every meet-up instantly turns to sex. Cuddle if you want after so she doesn't feel like a slut, but cut it short and let her know it's time for her to go.
And don't get sucked up in her drama. She'll try to get you to White Knight her a bunch (the correct response to "omg if my BF found out he'd kill me…he hit me once you know…" is "when are you coming over?"). You aren't a part of her world, you aren't a part of that drama. Stay away.
5) Dig for as much information on her boy as possible from her. If you can see her name when he txts, awesome, Google it and see what you can dig up. If she mentions his job, where he likes to drink, anything, memorize it. Girls are stupid and secretly love the drama of almost getting caught so they'll do shit like walk you past where their guy works or invite you out but then when you see her go "my BF came out too sorry pretend we don't know eachother" etc. If you find a pic of the guy online or something, fucking awesome. Might save your life.
6) It helps if you have a girlfriend yourself, or just let them know that you're a player or unavailable for some other reason. Snuff out any fantasy that you two could be a "thing" beyond fucking. You are way more attractive than her boy to her because you're the sexy mysterious fling side guy, so she's going to start picturing that you two could be together if she just gets caught and her boy leaves her.
7) Call him her "boy" and never call him by his name lol AMOG/psyche language thing. It just helps re-enforce in her mind that he's a "boy" (not a "man") and avoiding his name just helps keep you distanced from her world. Like if you went "so how was Bob's soccer game?" you might as well be one of their friends. Distance distance distance.
8) Bitch her out HARDCORE if she slips up at all. Which she will. Because girls are stupid with this stuff. They don't realize that some guys will kill another guy for fucking his girl. They get off on the drama of almost getting caught or actually getting caught. So they'll do stuff like not delete their message history or txt when they're in bed with their BF beside them and just tilt the screen away from him ("sarah's just telling me about this guy she met") etc.
If she fucks up at all, ream her out HARD, even if she doesn't get caught. Withdraw emotionally, take away all the fun sexy vibe you normally give her, act super paranoid and angry like she doesn't understand your safety, make her think she's going to lose you, then finish it all off with "which would suck 'cause we have such a good thing going on…I'd hate for it to have to end :("
You let her slip up once or twice without bitching her out and she'll just keep slipping up until she actually gets caught.
10) Don't ever send her pictures that can identify you. Even if you guys are sexting or whatever. If you take a pic of your dick to send her, take it standing in front of a blank wall and make sure none of the rest of your body is in it, but ideally don't even do that. Don't let her take any pictures of the two of you. Any sex stuff you record/photograph is done with YOUR camera/phone, not hers. You are the invisible man.
11) If you guys get into really rough stuff, record her agreeing to it. Try not to leave bruises/marks she can't hide. If she goes home with unexplained marks and can't hide them and her boy sees them, she'll get caught.
12) Use protection. If you pass her an STD and she passes it to her boy, she's fucked. If you get her pregnant she'll tell you that "you won't have to worry about it" and if her and her boy's relationship is heading toward marriage she'll have the baby expecting to get away with him raising it as his own. Cool, except if the guy gets a paternity test and says "fuck off bitch" and runs, you are now a dad paying child support for 18 years. This relates to #13.
13) Understand that she WILL throw you under the bus without hesitation if shit hits the fan. 100%. It doesn't matter how much she likes you, she will ALWAYS put herself first. ALWAYS. She will tell her boy that she was raped, she will tell her boy your name and address and everything if he's pissed off and demands them. She will lie about how often you did stuff together. She'll say you got her drunk and took advantage of her. She'll do anything to pass the blame onto you instead of her so she can try to salvage her relationship.
14) Don't txt during the weekend or evenings, basically when you know he could be around. Txting during the day is usually safer because she's at work and can txt you with no problems. Chicks are stupid and if their phone goes "BLEEP BLOOP: TXT FROM BOB JONES – MSG: Hey sexy what you…" you risk her boy seeing it.
15) Don't talk smack about her boy. She'll bitch to you about him, and you'll be tempted to laugh/agree with the stuff she says, but scold her for it instead or just change the subject. If you encourage that talk, you'll encourage her considering leaving him, and then she'll break up with the guy, say she loves this Other Man, and he'll be hell-bent on finding out who you are and you'll have an annoying clingy girl on your ass who's expecting you to swoop her up in your arms now that she's single and if you don't, she's gonna be pissed at you and want her guy to find you and there you are, under the bus where she threw you.
I've only had one close call with a boyfriend who wanted to kill me. The rest have no idea I existed and that their girlfriends/wives did things with me that they've begged her to let them do to her for years.
Ideally you should just go after single girls instead, it's a lot less hassle. But when you go for the hotter girls you'll find that hot girls almost ALWAYS have a boyfriend or are at least "dating" someone…they might not even like the guy, they just don't want to be seen as weird not having a boyfriend. And there'll be a dozen guys who THINK they have dibs on being her boyfriend. So it's like, what's better, play it safe and fuck an average single girl or take the risk and fuck the really hot one behind her BFs back?
"I see, nevermind. You're the sexual magician they want to keep around"
If I fuck her like any other guy fucks her, she doesn't care if she loses me or not, so she's more likely to be sloppy with keeping us a secret and get caught because who cares if I get my ass kicked and we can't hook up anymore, I'm the same as any other guy.
But if I fuck her in ways that make her fantasize about me 24/7 and rock her world sexually more than any other guy has ever rocked her world, she's going to be a lot more careful with keeping our relationship discreet because now it would be an actual loss to her if we got caught.
"You've got some powerful shit going on brother"
I've been around.
"I don't fuck girls with boyfriends or married women. Too sleazy and too easy. Fucking some girl while she talks to her boyfriend on her cell is low-level action."
Gee willikers, an armchair psychiatrist who's broken my soul down to it's core and shattered all my false illusions. I'm so devastated by your cunning analysis and incredible moral fortitude.
Never been burned by a girl, I just like sex. Never said taken women were difficult, there just happens to be a lot of them out there. Hell, a lot of them won't even mention they have a BF/husband until after we fuck. Never gave a shit about any power trip, it's about her and I and our sexual chemistry, not about "I'm so pimp look at me put one over on that dude, lol I'm getting revenge on so many people right now for my tortured life!!1111″
The shittiness of their relationship is between them, it's not my concern. I know I'm the prop and I'm fine with it.
You won't be able to understand that though, since you're clearly an intelligent man of the educated class who's too busy riding around on his White Horse throwing bolts of judgement at others to care about fucking.
Oh, also:
16) Don't let her meet your friends or be a part of your social circle in any way. Your friends are stupid and don't understand the situation and what a tightrope you're walking. They just literally have no concept that one seemingly okay comment or action of theirs can set off a butterfly effect that destroys a marriage, gets the girl killed, gets you killed, removes a father or mother from their child's life, etc. like these aren't pretend or exaggerated stakes here.
Don't refer to her by name if you do talk about her to them and if they were with you when they met her make them delete her number, tell them to forget about her and that they'll never see her again, and if any of them picked up or got a number from any of her friends, make him delete the number and let him know that girl is off limits (or back off 100% from your girl, delete her number and avoid her etc, if you want to let your friend have his girl).
I've had situs where buddies are like "are you bringing Sally out? Her friend Helga texted me and says they're gonna be at ThatBar tonight! We should go there!" and I've had to give him the speech and make him understand the situ and why that wasn't going to happen. He already had a girlfriend so the obvious move was him backing off. If he was hard up for a lay I'd let him have the friend and back off my girl.
We happened to meet these girls as a group and I knew mine was taken but he had the best intentions and steamrolled them into coming back to our place to party after, just trying to wingman for me. But that just got too many people involved so I had to play it cool and eventually kick them out. He asked how I would've wanted to handle it instead (he's learning a bit of game) and I told him because she was taken I would have just grabbed her # secretly and arranged a meet via txts with neither her friends nor mine having any idea we were even keeping in touch.
This is a little over dramatic and controlling but it's the best for everyone involved in the situation because you're the one with game who understands the psychology involved in all the balls being juggled in the air. Your friends are well-meaning but clumsy.
via Heartiste
Many students that begin to have success with game often error by too much AAG. It's important to remember that the attraction phase of PU is short- less than 3minutes.
Whether you are able to continue game process at the point of initial contact or have to time-bridge to a day2 (first date) it is key to remember that you are in the COMFORT stage and flashes of BRG are necessary.
As a guideline Mystery mentions that comfort building usually requires 4 to 10 hours before seduction can be successful (mitigate LMR). Thats 4 to 10 hours face to face time.
During this mid-game is where the art of balance between AAG and BRG is needed relative to your target's responsiveness. Many beta men, even good looking men blow themselves out by going into excessive mis-calibrated cocky/qualifying over emphasized attraction routines because they have misread that the target is *already* attracted and they should now be focusing on adding dimensions to their personality and genuinely (or manipulatively, heh) building a connection.
BRG can be used to achieve this.
Suggested topics for comfort BRG: family, health, desires in life, past relationships (good feelings), food/cooking.
BRG routines mixed with playful teasing and kino plowing (when she laughs) builds connection -> comfort -> sexual comfort.
Contrast the above with a sprinkle of random asshole spikes of making fun of fat/ugly people in proximity, a light neg, fleeting eyes of disinterest in her stories, calling her a dork, telling her she bought her clothes at Walmart……..and voila! She'll think "I just can't figure this guy out??? He's charming but so critical but sometimes he's sweet but he's also a dick I just can't tell if he likes me…"
Solid post as usual!
PUAs have already broken this part of the game down cause back when they were running wild with cocky/funny stuff they started running into girls flaking on them and lower value girls (like 7s and down) disqualifying themselves from getting with them, and just in general a lot more "you're a player, aren't you" challenges.
The prob was that they were too smooth and too flawless and the girls couldn't find any faults so they just assumed they were missing something and would either challenge right away, take themselves out of the running for his attention, or just flake when they had too much time to think.
The reason we don't really focus on this with newbies is because is the problem with Nice Guys that they aren't nice enough? Fuck no. They're already dying to reject game and having to be an alpha/asshole so if you give them an inch and say "well you can buy a drink or remember her birthday" they take a mile and go "oboy!! See?? I can keep being a nice guy like I wanted to!! The PUAs SAID I can buy her drinks!!" and they don't get anywhere.
Once you've burned all that shit out of your head and replaced it with assholishness, THEN you can go back and start adding little dabs of your nice guy treatment in there.
Getting good with girls is a long process, it's not something you change overnight. You have to cross into a lot of extremes outside your comfort zone, make an ass of yourself, learn where the boundaries are, then pull back and settle somewhere in the middle between where you started and the extreme. This is why most PUAs (myself included) come off as social retards when they start out learning game. They're over-negging, over-peacocking, over-energetic, over-approaching, over-gaming, over-DHVing, over-AMOGing, etc.
Down the road you pull it back because you learn to calibrate, but giving newbies even a glimmer of hope that they don't have to do a massive psyche overhaul is just giving them an excuse to clutch onto. Pop their lifeboat and make them swim, they'll thank you for it when they get to shore.
via Heartiste
«a little tiring to have to calculate how you behave based on another person's hormonal/menstrual cycle?»
That's the entire PUA story: to get laid one has to learn a lot of finesse, to give a girl, on the knife edge between desire and fear, exactly the right dosage of both for a gina-tingle fix.
It takes a lot of practice to build effortless intuition on how to deliver exactly what she craves.
As the Heartiste has said many times, to get laid with a woman one has to turn on a woman, no matter how bizarre or complicated the behavior needed to achieve that.
«How can you be in love if you can't be yourself?»
The impression one gets from the success of "game" is that most women don't care at all about the "in love" side, only about having their gina-tingle fixes. As another "game" blogger wrote, solipsism seems to be standard.
"It takes a lot of practice to build effortless intuition on how to deliver exactly what she craves."
I think a lot of non game types get hung up on this including the "well you're just putting all this effort into learning what the girl wants so that's supplicating" MRA and feminist types.
They don't seem to understand that ya, you go through that phase, but you internalize it and it becomes effortless ("unconscious competance") the same way you don't think about walking or brushing your teeth.
I can generally tell a ton of things about a girl just from a quick interaction. How she's be in bed, what kind of kinks she has, how experiences she probably is, what kind of men she responds to, what kind of personality makes her wet, if she's frigid and boring, if she'd cheat on her hubby etc.
I don't have to sit down and make a checklist…it's just an instant effortless thing now. Radar just pings off certain things even if I'm just watching a waitress talking to a customer on a Tuesday afternoon.
via Heartiste
|on March 5, 2012 at 2:20 pm
Let's take a moment and really think about a sweet young pussy.
Yes it is very easy in that case to persuade oneself to assume the laughable male doggystyle and just stuff your tongue into that briny lightly-flossed little conch and belabor its glistening pearl.
And when 18 is squealing and needs to be gagged because you simply cannot bear to hear the phrase O My God even once more, you spend a little time, more than a little time, taking a good long whiff of her young crack and poking a stiff proxy finger into that sweetest of all holes.
Staring up at you with those babyfat cheeks and unknowing eyes as she sucks you for her ass, brewing a gusher in your fat, hairy, dangling sack.
Fuck yes!
fuck youre creepy lol
via Heartiste
Agree 100% with this article. Obviously.
The worst are the guys who used to go out and get laid, but now they're older and less attractive and have settled down with a wife or whatever. But they run around spouting nonsense about how looks and money matter because since they don't go out and pick up anymore their beliefs have hardened thru vague memories of when they "used to be QUITE good with the ladies chuckle chuckle" and they go "well trust me I used to have a 6-pack and a mansion and I got laid all the time"
If you think looks matter, you're not hitting the field hard enough.
I'm not attached to this notion because it's part of "the pua belief system" or I'm brainwashed or ignorant of my failures. I'm attached to it because I'm out regularly seeing and experiencing it in action.
If I went out and for months saw girls only fucking the 6-packed Armani suit guys I'd say "you know what? Looks matter.". But I don't see that. Because that's not how it works.
That's why harping on looks or money etc mattering tells me right away that the person doesn't go out and pick up girls regularly.
Love the wisdom of the old timers who used to be big players back in their day and all that shit, it's good to have your perspective on long-term relationships and long-term gaming and marriage and kids and gaming way below your socially approved of age range and everything…
And props to the day game guys or social circle guys who've carved their niche out and get laid regularly because they've created a pussy ecosystem for themselves, cause that takes a lot of work and balls to get going and it's awesome that you've set that up and found a way to avoid the retardedness of the bar scene.
And hell, even props to the online guys who raid dating sites for unwed and divorced single mom fatties with messed up teeth and BPD who have a over-inflated expectations of what their SMV should get them…they're generally not high quality and you're running the least effort game possible but at least you're getting laid.
…BUT. Straight up. If you are not currently going out at a MINUMUM of every fri/sat night, preferably 4 nights a week, and going up against big scary drunk alpha guys wearing Affliction shirts and competing against flashing lights, loud music, alcohol, rich guys, bouncers, managers, cockblocking girlfriends, etc as you go after gorgeous turbo hotties (not the easy fatty sets), and pulling them out of there, and trying regardless of whether your hair is perfect that night or you have your favorite shirt on or whether you've slacked off at the gym lately or whether you're sick and cant talk loud etc
If you arent doing that then you just aren't qualified to be making judgements about how "looks matter" or that "money is an attraction trigger" or that "you need X amount of comfort before you can escalate so you have to take her skydiving" or that "you have to tell them you have an important job" or "that opener wouldn't work" or "that behavior would be creepy" or "any guy who tried that would get his ass kicked" or "that would only work on dumb drunk slutty college girls"
It's not a judgement, I'm not saying you suck. Not everyone likes the bar environment and ya, it's completely retarded there, we all know that. But those environments are the hardest to pull, with the most obstacles, and most of the people are running at their base instinct level not even from the alcohol but just from the "cut loose" atmosphere that encourages it.
That's where you see the myths shattered. Ugly guys with girls crawling on them. Jacked up alpha AMOGs standing in the corner with a beer up at their chest like pussies. Super players who talk a big game but make bullshit excuses like "it's too loud" or "I normally do day game" or "that one looks like she's with her boyfriend" or "these girl's aren't good enough for me I only like classy women". Scrubby poor bouncers fucking girls in the bathroom. Waitresses and shooter girls that every guy in the club thinks he's going to fuck because her game is so tight as she makes hundreds of dollars a night. Girls wanting to fuck guys their girlfriends have fucked. Girls rejecting good looking guys. Girls snubbing rich guys. Girls letting rich guys buy them drinks then ditching them for other guys. Girls getting jealous of eachother and competing for guys that don't look like the type girls would even be into let alone compete for. Girls dressed up like theyre going to a ball making out with guys in t-shirts and dirty jeans. Rocker alternative girls making out with Armani douchey looking guys. Jersey shore dudes physically fighting eachother over girls who don't give a shit which of them wins as long as they get cock. Smoking hot girls being friendly as hell. Ugly fatties being rude and throwing massive shit-tests at you. Short guys with tall girls chasing them. Fat guys who take over the party.
That's the environment where any sticking point or incongruency you have is magnified 1000x and shoved in your face for you to go home and cry about and then either give up on game and become a keyboard jockey giving bullshit advice and talking smack, or man up and start working on fixing whatever holes in your game have been exposed.
That's the environment where you see what really matters in attraction, alpha male interaction, logistic complications, social proof, etc. boiled down and on display and shitting all over your face.
Now it's Friday night and I'm about to shower up and go out. …Are YOU?
Related Tyler Durden vid.
|on March 3, 2012 at 12:15 pm
Only a fool would doubt that time in the trenches is the only thing that teaches. Unless you put in the time early on and often, you know less than nothing.–
That said, if you're out there *grinding* it out, with absolute relentlessness, week after week, when are you enjoying your best piece of ass?
The ultimate goal of enjoying women is to get a young beauty in love and sexually trained.
And to have that set up and running smooth more than a few times over the years.
Sometimes it's best on a Saturday to fuck a fine piece in the late afternoon for a few hours and then kick her out contented. When that piece becomes a problem for whatever reason, and they almost always do when they're young and fine, you politely disengage and move on. Back to the trenches, day and night.
But *only* to find that next piece of ass to enjoy for a nice smooth 6 months to a year.
Going into the trenches just for the sake of it becomes a kind of vice. You sound a little bit like some guys I know who love to gamble. ;)
It so ridiculously easy to get a girl to fall in love with you that that's not a challenge. Here's how you do it: take a fuckbuddy and see her more than once a week. Done. Saying the ultimate goal is having a girl in love with you is like saying married guys are the ultimate players with the best game lol
Some guys are happy with one piece of ass at a time and that's cool, do what you want. But if you pick up a new girl 3 or 4 times a year, you simply don't have the massive experience in picking up and understanding attraction that a guy who gets new girls weekly or juggles multiple girls at a time has. And that's fine too, as long as you aren't running around saying "trust me, this is how attraction works (insert complete bullshit beliefs that a year hitting the field hard would completely shatter)".
You enjoy your girls whenever you want. Fuck one during the afternoon, kick her out, go out and chat some new ones up, if nothing pans out call up one of your other girls for a last call hookup, have dinner with your main girl the next day, txt your numbers from the night before and set stuff up during the week…it's fun if you like variety.
One of my buddies just invites all his new numbers out to the same bar we're going to and lets them fight it out and goes home with whichever one he's into by last call and texts the others "hey where'd you go? Lol I wanted to hang with you…" like it's their fault they didn't hook up lol
Btw here's a good post that explains the disconnect between your view and mine if you're curious about the psychology behind it. You're probably a PoS guy and I'm heavily a ToH guy.
Like I say it's cool if that's what you want out of game. Some people take up boxing for self defense and some take it up to compete in tournaments regularly. But the guy regularly fighting in a ring has way more valid experience with what works and doesn't work and what wins a fight than the guy who isn't.
The guys not pulling new pussy regularly but still spouting nonsense are like the martial artists going "well if someone came at me like that that's where'd i'd do the ninja death touch, trust me it would kill them instantly". Like ok dude lol