text:
If information about you or your agency is incorrect, please let us know at 978-249-3703 or firstname.lastname@example.com. If you or your agency are not listed as a service for the North Quabbin region, please feel free to submit your information for consideration.
Please click here for an alphabetical list of agencies: INDEX
- Massachusetts Commission for the Blind
- Massachusetts Department of Children & Families (DCF)
- Massachusetts Department of Development Services
- Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education
- Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection
- Massachusetts Department of Mental Health
- Massachusetts Department of Public Health ~ Bureau of Substance Abuse Services
- Massachusetts Department of Public Health ~ Western Regional Office
- Massachusetts Department of Transitional Assistance
- Massachusetts Department of Veterans Services
- Massachusetts Department of Youth Services (DYS)
- Massachusetts Development Disabilities Council (MDDC)
- Massachusetts Disabled Persons Protection Commission (DPPC)
- Massachusetts Office on Disability (MOD)
- Massachusetts Rehabilitation Commission
- MassHealth
- Social Security Administration
Massachusetts Commission for the Blind48 Boylston Street, Boston, MA 02116-4718
800-392-6450 ~ 617-727-5550 ~ TTY 800-392-6556 ~ Fax 617-626-7685
The Mission of the Massachusetts Commission for the Blind is to work in partnership with legally blind individuals to reach their goals of independence and participation in their communities.
Vocational Rehabilitation ~ Information on employment related services, job searches, resume & cover letter writing, and information for potential employers.
Independent Living Social Services ~ Services designed to maximize independence.
Specialized Services to Children ~ Services for children from birth to age 14.
Specialized Services to Elders ~ Services for adults 55 & over.
Consumer Assistance Program and Support (CAPS) ~ Advocacy for blind persons
Rehabilitation Teaching ~ Skills development in the home, other living situations and the workplace.
Orientation and Mobility ~ Help with health costs (financial criteria apply.)
Deaf/Blind, Multi-Handicapped Services ~ Community and residential services for the deaf-blind and multiply impaired.
Vending Facilities ~ A business opportunity for persons who are blind.
Massachusetts Department of Children & Families (DCF)(Formerly the Department of Social Services)
PATCH Office, 423 Main Street, Athol, MA 01331
978-249-5070 ~ Fax 978-249-5080
The Department of Children & Families is the Massachusetts State Child Protective services. DCF provides:
Adoption services
Oversees foster care placements
Preventive family support programs
Massachusetts Department of Development Services(Formerly Department of Mental Retardation)
Franklin/Hampshire Area Office
One Roundhouse Plaze, Northampton, MA 01060
413-586-4948 ~ Fax 413-584-0611
DDS provides services and supports to adults with mental retardation and children with developmental disabilities. Assistance is available in the areas of:
Family support
Residential services or intense levels of treatment
Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education75 Pleasant Street, Malden, MA 02148
www.doe.mass.edu ~ US Department of Education www.ed.gov/index.jhtml
The DOE administrates the public education of state residents including those with special needs.
Massachusetts Department of Environmental ProtectionOne Winter Street, Boston, MA 01208
617-292-5500 ~ Fax 617-556-1049
The Department of Environmental Protection is the state agency responsible for ensuring clean air and water, the safe management of toxics and hazards, the recycling of solid and hazardous wastes, the timely cleanup of hazardous waste sites and spills, and the preservation of wetlands and coastal resources.
Massachusetts Department of Mental HealthPO Box 389, Northampton, MA 01061
413-587-6200 ~ TTY 413-586-6592 ~ Fax 413-587-6205 or
12 Prospect Street, Greenfield, MA 01301
413-772-5600 ~ TTY 413-772-3076 ~ Fax 413-772-5638
The Massachusetts Department of Mental Health (DMH) sets the standards for the operation of mental health facilities and community residential programs and provides clinical, rehabilitative and supportive services for adults with serious mental illness, and children and adolescents with serious mental illness or serious emotional disturbance.
Towns served: Ashfield, Athol, Bernardston, Buckland,Charlemont , Colrain , Conway, Deerfield Erving, Gill, Greenfield, Hawley, Heath, Leverett, Leyden, Millers Falls Montague, New Salem, Northfield, Orange, Petersham Phillipston, Rowe, Royalston, Shelburne, Shutesbury, Sunderland, Turners Falls, Warwick, Wendell, and Whately.
Massachusetts Department of Public Health
23 Service Center, Northampton, MA 01060
Bureau of Substance Abuse Services
413-586-7525 ~ Fax 413-784-1037
The Bureau of Substance Abuse Services oversees the substance abuse prevention and treatment services in Western Mass and helps to provide access to treatment services for indigent and uninsured people.
Massachusetts Department of Public Health
23 Service Center Road, Northampton, MA 01060
Western Regional Office
413-586-7525 ~ Fax 413-784-1037
DPH promotes and insures conditions that improve and protect the health of all Massachusetts residents and communities. Programs address:
Community Health
Environmental Health
Health Quality Management
Hospital Services
Substance Abuse Services
Massachusetts Department of Transitional Assistance143 Munson Street, Unit #3 , Greenfield, MA 01301
800-470-5877 ~ 413-772-3400 ~ Fax 413-774-5266
The Department of Transitional Assistance is the Massachusetts State Division of Welfare. They distribute food stamps, TAFDC, EAEDC, emergency assistance and referrals. The DTA office has a satellite office in Athol at First Call for Help, 423 Main Street. The satellite office is staffed Wednesdays from 9:00-5:00 pm with a clerk who is able to answer questions, hand out paperwork/applications & schedule appointments.
Massachusetts Department of Veterans Services600 Washington Street, 7th Floor, Boston, MA 02111
617-210-5480 ~ Fax 617-210-5755
The mission of the Department of Veterans' Services is to be the leading advocate for the more than half-million veterans of the Commonwealth and their families and survivors. DVS establishes policy, proposes legislation, ensures adequate funding for veterans programs is included in the Governor's budget, and represents the interests of veterans in matters coming before the General Court.
In addition, DVS represents all state agencies and individual veterans before the federal Department of Veterans Affairs in securing federal compensation and other benefits that might be available. It administers the needs-based benefits program (M.G.L. C. 115) through Veterans' Agents in each municipality of the Commonwealth, and also provides state funding to organizations offering homeless shelter, transitional housing, and outreach services to veterans.
Massachusetts Department of Youth Services (DYS)PATCH Office, 423 Main Street, Athol, MA 01331
978-249-5070 ~ Fax 978-249-5080
The Department of Youth Services is the Massachusetts State Juvenile Delinquency prevention program and provides oversight of court involved youth.
Massachusetts Development Disabilities Council (MDDC)174 Portland Street, 5th Floor, Boston, MA 02114
Information and referral on questions regarding developmental disabilities.
Massachusetts Disabled Persons Protection Commission (DPPC)50 Ross Way, Quincy, MA 02169
617-727-6465 ~ HOTLINE 800-426-9009 (7 days a week)
DPPC is committed to protecting adults with disabilities from abusive acts and omissions of their caregivers through investigation, oversight, public awareness, and prevention.
Massachusetts Office on Disability (MOD)One Ashburton Place #1305, Boston, MA 02108
617-727-7440 ~ Fax 617-727-0965
The purpose of MOD is to bring about full and equal participation of people with disabilities in all aspects of life in a manner which fosters dignity and self determination. MOD works to:
Advance legal rights
Promote maximum opportunities
Provide supportive services
Provide accommodations and accessibility
Massachusetts Rehabilitation Commission238 Main Street, 3rd Floor, Greenfield, MA 01301
413-774-2326 ~ Fax 413-774-4654
The MRC is the agency of the Commonwealth responsible for vocational rehabilitation services, independent living services (except for persons who are blind) and for eligibility determination for SSI/SSDI (federal) benefits programs for citizens with disabilities. There is an outreach worker who comes to Orange and Athol twice a week to meet with clients. Call for an appointment in the North Quabbin area.
MassHealth600 Washington Street, Boston, MA 02111
617-210-5000 ~ 800-841-2900
MassHealth is insurance coverage that pays for healthcare for income eligible residents of Massachusetts. MassHealth covers a broad range of health-care services by paying for part or all of a member's health insurance, or paying MassHealth providers for medical services.
Social Security Administration55 Lake Street, Gardner, MA 01440
978-632-1004 ~ 800-772-1213 or
The Social Security Administration administers:
Retirement benefits
Disability benefits to covered workers and their families
Survivors benefits to families of deceased workers
Medicare insurance for those 65 and over and the disabled
Supplemental security income benefits based on need for the aged, blind and disabled.


text:
Varus Build Guide by vJetz
This build has been archived and is for historical display only.
PLEASE NOTE: This build has been archived by the author. They are no longer supporting nor updating this build and it may have become outdated. As such, voting and commenting have been disabled and it no longer appears in regular search results.
Not Updated For Current Season
This guide has not yet been updated for the current season. Please keep this in mind while reading. You can see the most recently updated guides on the browse guides page.
Thank You!
Your votes and comments encourage our guide authors to continue
creating helpful guides for the League of Legends community.
Varus Build
ADC Role
Hail of Arrows (Hyper Carry)
Piercing Arrow (Poke)
Ability Sequence
Not Updated For Current Season
The masteries shown here are not yet updated for the current season, the guide author needs to set up the new masteries. As such, they will be different than the masteries you see in-game.
Hello! My name is Jet and this is my Varus guide. In this guide, I will be giving in-depth explanations for two different ways of playing Varus. The first, and my personal favorite, is Hyper Carry Varus. This utilizes early game harass with Hail of Arrows and focuses on kiting and late game damage output. The second, more popular, Varus playstyle would be Poke Varus. This utilizes the high scaling of Piercing Arrow for incredible poke damage and wave clear and focuses on making sure that you only go into battle with crippled enemies.
I may make a Varus mid guide at some point, but probably not for a while.
Introduction to Varus
Varus is an AD Carry that brings a lot of utility to his team with Hail of Arrows and Chain of Corruption. He has slightly higher range than most ADCs at 575. (Average is 550.) Varus both dominates the early game (Out-trades with Blighted Quiver, Has a constant attack speed steroid while farming in Living Vengeance, and his Hail of Arrows / Piercing Arrow packs a punch, even at early levels) and comes close to matching other late game hyper carries as long as you can pick someone off at the beginning of a fight.
Mastering Varus can be tricky. His lack of escape ability means that he is reliant on Flash. Piercing Arrow and Chain of Corruption are very potent skill shots, however, they both can be difficult to land. Knowing when to stack Blighted Quiver can also be hard. With practice, Varus can be one of, if not the best AD Carry.
Pros / Cons
+ Higher range than most other ADCs
+ Passive attack speed steroid ( Living Vengeance)
+ Kites well ( Blade of the Ruined King + Hail of Arrows + Chain of Corruption)
+ Hard CC Ult ( Chain of Corruption)
+ % Max Health Damage ( Blighted Quiver)
Pros (Poke)
+ High range poke ( Piercing Arrow)
+ Wave clears well ( Piercing Arrow + Statikk Shiv)
+ Good Disengage ( Hail of Arrows + Chain of Corruption + Banshee's Veil)
+ Decent at Sieging
+ Burst Potential
- No gap creating abilities
- Piercing Arrow is less effective
- Needs an assist or kill to get attack speed steroid ( Living Vengeance)
- Lower Damage than other Late Game ADCs
Cons (Poke)
- Mana Hungry
- Damage reduction through units ( Piercing Arrow)
- Piercing Arrow is easily avoided
- Low kiting ability
- No gap creating ability
Ability Explanation
Living Vengeance (Passive): On champion kill or assist, Varus gains 40% attack speed for 6 seconds. On minion kill, Varus gains 20% attack speed for 3 seconds.
Living Vengeance supplies a lot of Varus' damage output. It goes unnoticed, naturally, since most passives do, but Living Vengeance grants Varus bonus attack speed equal to that of a Statikk Shiv. This means that as a fight gets rolling, picking up a kill or assist will essentially grant you an extra item for 6 seconds.
Piercing Arrow (Q): Varus starts drawing back his next shot, gradually increasing its range and damage, then he fires it, dealing minimum 10 / 47 / 83 / 120 / 157 (+1.0 per attack damage) to maximum 15 / 70 / 125 / 180 / 235 (+1.6 per attack damage) physical damage, reduced by 15% per enemy hit (minimum 33%).
While preparing to shoot, Varus cannot autoattack or use abilities, and his movement speed is slowed by 20%. After 4 seconds, Piercing Arrow fails but refunds half its mana cost.
Piercing Arrow provides great poke, however, can be difficult to hit and renders you vulnerable. Unless the desired target is the first to get hit by the arrow, they will take reduced damage. While charging the arrow, you can not auto attack or use other abilities. On top of this, you apply a self slow, leaving you open to enemy skill shots and counter attack. This ability is actually a hindrance to Varus while he is within auto attack range as basic attacks will out dps Piercing Arrow. (Barring the Poke Varus Build. As maxing Piercing Arrow first will allow it to out dps basic attacks until 30-40 minutes into the game.) Piercing Arrow should be charged and fired from a safe distance, preferably from the fog of war.
Blighted Quiver (W): Varus' basic attacks deal bonus 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26 (+0.25 per ability power) magic damage and apply Blight for 6 seconds (stacks 3 times).
Varus' other abilities detonate Blight, dealing magic damage equal to 2 / 2.75 / 3.5 / 4.25 / 5% (+2% of ability power) of the target's maximum health per stack.
Blighted Quiver has two different parts to it. Both are extremely useful and potent. The first part is the passive magic damage on every basic attack. This is similar to Miss Fortune's Impure Shots in the sense that, as long as you match your opponents damage, you will out-trade your enemy auto attack for auto attack.
This leads into the second part: the detonation damage. Even if your opponent does out-trade you like this (and even better if they don't), by hitting them with an ability when they carry blight stacks, they receive damage equal to a % of their max health. (It is important to note that the % of max health listed on the tooltip is per stack. Therefore a level 5 Blighted Quiver at 3 stacks will do 15% of their max health when triggered.) In lane, it is best to try and stack all 3, but don't end up losing a trade because you got too greedy for stacks. In teamfights, you will more than likely have to kite their tanks and bruisers. It is best to get all 3 stacks of blight on them for maximized damage.
Hail of Arrows (E): Varus fires a hail of arrows that deal 65 / 100 / 135 / 170 / 205 (+0.6 per bonus attack damage) physical damage and desecrate the ground. Desecrated ground slows enemies' Movement Speed by 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 / 45% for .25 seconds and reduces their healing and regeneration by 50%. The slow duration is refreshed if enemies stay within the zone.
Hail of Arrows is a slow field / desecrated ground that deals damage upon cast. As well as utility, it also brings more reliable poke than Piercing Arrow. This is the case because Hail of Arrows is much more difficult to dodge than Piercing Arrow. The slow can help with kiting, especially when paired with a Blade of the Ruined King. As long as you don't get locked up, this can be nearly as efficient as an escape ability. Desecrated ground can also help to quickly get rid of pesky regen-based front liners. (ex. Volibear's Chosen of the Storm, Dr. Mundo's Sadism, Swain's Ravenous Flock.)
Chain of Corruption (R): Varus flings out a tendril of corruption that deals 150 / 250 / 350 (+1.0 per ability power) magic damage and immobilizes the first enemy champion hit for 2 seconds.
The corruption then spreads towards nearby uninfected enemy champions, applying the same damage and immobilize if it reaches them. The corruption will continue to spread until there are no further unaffected targets in range.
Chain of Corruption is essentially an AoE snare, with the effective area expanding from the current snared person. This ability is cast as a skill shot and is notorious for being completely whiffed. A key to mastering Varus is to not miss this skill. Once you hit somebody with Chain of Corruption, the hard work is done. The Chain will then spread to nearby enemies (550 range) after the first enemy is free from the snare. This works similarly to Malzahar's Malefic Visions, however, it doesn't need to kill to be passed on and the damage is done upfront. It can also spread to multiple targets at once. Aside from Ashe's Enchanted Crystal Arrow, this is provides the most utility of all AD Carry ultimates.
Skilling Order
"Jet, why do you skill Blighted Quiver before Piercing Arrow. Piercing Arrow does a lot more damage."
REWQ and REQW are rather similar ways to skill Varus. Some of it comes down to personal preference, some of it comes down to what you need in lane.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Since completing Project 365 last week I stepped away from climbing and blogging to relax a little bit–to take a bit of time to revel in the success of this venture. I found that relaxation was hard to come by–and that anxiety was plentiful. In order to stay occupied I have been spending my time editing photos and preparing to share my account of the final 5 days of Project 365 and the grand finale. "Processing" would probably be the appropriate term. I have only bouldered a little bit and that little bit has been very comforting. Good habits can die hard too.
For the last year I have been focusing on the minutia of the daily routine of climbing and traveling, to the exclusion of most everything else–without having much time to actually stop and digest what was happening. Many days I would just force myself to zone out everything other than getting through the days climbing because I couldn't think about all of the unknown and risk beyond that without my mind imploding. Not having a home and living on the road forces you into a different headspace. Now, we have a small apartment, and the reintegration has begun. On January 16th, everything just sort of hit me–like I had come to a complete halt, a near reversal of all my momentum up til that point. To be honest, I feel very little completion. I don't feel relieved on a grand scale. I don't feel like the Project is truly finished.
I have felt a bit rudderless, like I am drifting without much direction. Sleep is hard to come by and I have been forcing myself to enjoy watching cartoons and I even started playing old Nintendo games on my computer in between editing and writing to try and keep my wheels from spinning out of control. It's been a challenge–an adjustment. I wasn't prepared for it–and I have heard from other friends who have taken on big projects that this type of comedown period is normal. It occurs to me that challenge IS change and there isn't really an effective way to prepare for change other than accepting that you have to ride it out and let it get better.
I feel like drawing a connection between this point I am making and living with diabetes is too obvious for me to bother specifying, but I could be too deep in my head to recognize that such a point needs to be made. Sometimes (many times, in my experience) no matter what the challenge, you have to let it get better which only happens when you stop trying to make it better. So that's what I am doing–surrendering to the process.
I can feel the adjustment happening a little bit at a time and I know that this is all for the best. I also have been sorting out ideas for the future–both personally and for LivingVertical as an organization. It's been obvious to me for some time that Project 365 is a good start–a good way to demonstrate our mission and raise awareness, but my goal in the next steps are to DO more to engage others.
I have been getting a decent amount of questions on our facebook page and I am excited to start answering those questions in the coming blogs. The focus of LivingVertical now is fulfilling the perks for Project 365 contributors and creating the documentary about the Project to give back to the community. I am excited at this challenge–but we are producing this work in house (meaning Stefanie and I, working out of a dimly lit one bedroom apartment!) and we are learning as we go. Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe, movies are not put together through the week in order to entertain people on the following weekend. My goal is for you to be watching our film in approximately 6 months. I am excited to share the play by play of that process with you all!
So yes, this blog is sort of an icebreaker to get the ball re-rolling as we look toward new horizons. I am interested in taking questions–so please leave comments here or on the LivingVertical Facebook page. This week, I will be telling you about the last several days of Project 365 and the hail-Mary finish–with a LOT of photos!


text:
Join Team Patrón
Whether you are looking for a career or a place to earn some extra income, Pizza Patrón has great opportunities available. We are looking for talented and dedicated individuals of all skill levels to help make Pizza Patrón the very best restaurant company around.
We want to hear from you today!
Email your resume
Fax us your resume
Send us your resume
Pizza Patrón Inc.
Human Resources Department
510 Portland Rd
San Antonio, TX 78216
Download the Employment Applications PDF here.
Submit your resume online
Please complete this form (*indicates required fields)


text:
November 11, 2011
Here are your Puck Previews: Spotlighting the key games in NHL action, news and views as well as general frivolity. Make sure to stop back here for the nightly Three Stars when the games are finished.
Jamie Benn(notes) uses Ryan O'Reilly(notes) for a quick cat nap on the ice.
Preview: Dallas Stars at Pittsburgh Penguins, 7 p.m. ET. We went from tonight being "Hey, Sidney Crosby(notes) is coming back!" to "Oh, hey, Alex Goligoski(notes) is coming back to Pittsburgh and James Neal(notes) is facing his old team". Sorry, assembled media who spent this entire week in Pittsburgh. Crosby news aside, it's still a matchup of No. 1 in the East versus No. 1 in the West.
Preview: Edmonton Oilers at Detroit Red Wings, 7:30 p.m. ET. Detroit's five-game winning streak over Edmonton is on the line and they'll be facing a red-hot Nikolai Khabibulin(notes), while potentially missing Henrik Zetterberg(notes), who's a game-time decision with a "middle-body injury". Elbow-height expert Andy Sutton(notes) will return to the lineup for the Oilers after serving a five-game suspension for elbowing Gabriel Landeskog(notes).
Preview: Vancouver Canucks at Anaheim Ducks, 10:30 p.m. ET. As Detroit looks to extend a winning streak, Anaheim is trying to snap a six-game losing streak and begin their rise out of the bottom of the Pacific Division. Vancouver's six-game road trip comes to an end and they're going for their third straight win. Odds are good for the Canucks if they can score as the Ducks are 30th in the NHL at 1.87 goals per game.
Check out previews and updated scores for all of today's games on the Y! Sports NHL scores and scheds page. For tonight's starting goalies, check out Left Wing Lock.
Evening Reading
• Jarome Iginla(notes) is a wise, wise man. His thoughts on getting rid of the loser point: "It would be a little more stressful when you're in a shootout but be more fun. You'd have more riding on each game," Iginla said. "I'm sure I'm in a minority in that, but it would be exciting." [Calgary Sun]
• LeBrun on Wayne Gretzky warming up to playing in the Winter Classic Alumni Game, Tampa GM Steve Yzerman responding to the 1-3-1 "controversy" and the GMs meetings agenda. [ESPN]
• "Gone are the days of his electric spirit engulfing the other eleven players on the ice. Gone are the days where his celebrations alone are highlight worthy. The youthful smile and bottomless pit of energy has escaped him. Nowadays, we see a more calm and composed Alexander Ovechkin. An unstoppable force of a player has been reduced to just another All-Star caliber player. The difference between the two types of players in this nit-picking analysis is very clear. Alexander Ovechkin no longer has his mental edge." [Puck Drunk Love]
• Guillaume Latendresse(notes) is out for indefinitely with a concussion. [Russo]
Puck Buddy Comment of the Day: Andrew on possible retribution on Eric Staal(notes):
"As a Rangers fan I don't want the distraction. The hit was a clean hit and players need to learn to keep their head up at all times especially along the boards. As some have said the best way to get back at them is to beat them every time you face them this year. Sending Deveaux or Avery out after him does no one any good, especially because it was a clean hit."
Bold Prediction: Patrick Kane(notes) hat trick as the Blackhawks rout the Flames 5-1.
Gary Bettman's unlikely musical tastes
Posted Jun 21 2012
Yakupov says he's ready for NHL
Posted Jun 25 2012
Canada's Stanley Cup curse explained
Posted Jun 21 2012
Edited By Doug Farrar
Edited By 'Duk
Edited By Kelly Dwyer
Edited By Greg Wyshynski
Edited By Matt Hinton
Edited By Jeff Eisenberg
Edited By Jay Busbee
Edited By Jay Busbee
Edited By Steve Cofield
Edited By Chris Chase
Edited By Chris Chase
Edited By Brooks Peck
Edited By Andy Behrens
Edited By Cameron Smith
Edited By Mark J. Miller


text:
Saturday through Thursday, watch mecca Tourneau will be taking 50-70% off tons of new and resale watches. Early on, these events typically draw insane crowds, so bring a book. Also, for V Day, expect plenty of jewelry.
Tourneau Sale – 317 W 33rd St between 8th & 9th – 9am-6:30pm – **Credit Cards Only** – 718-747-1656 – Map


text:
Flirting Tips for GuysAttitude :
Be a tease
My boyfriend to be always playfully teases me about something. Seriosuly, it drives me crazy and I can't help but crack up. It raises their interest in you big time opening up for conversation or indearing looks. Trust me, it works all the time on me.
This tip was submitted by an anonymous visitor to our website.
Flirting Tips for Guys > Attitude
Printer Friendly Version
Pretty Version - for Gift Giving
Forward Tip To a Friend
|Follow @RomanceClass
Flirting Tips for Guys : List of Topics
List of Romance & Relationship Topics


text:
"We must do away with this absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living…" – Buckminister Fuller
This idea is actually very thought out and has actual trials in Canada (though limited) that showed UBI had no negative effect on work and income.
One thing to realize is you have to set the UBI at an affordable level. 25% of the mean per capita income seems like a decent start. That puts it around 12k in the US. By setting it at 25% of the mean, you allow for increases in the UBI as the economy does well, but limits UBI from being too generous to be unaffordable.
The government is clearly where UBI has to come from. You pay for UBI in a few ways. One, is you get rid of all welfare, subsidies, food stamps, etc that we have now. UBI is much more efficient and less prone to fraud since it is simple and equal for everyone. Don't have to high a bureaucracy to determine who gets aid and who doesn't on the margin.
On top of that, you can increase tax rates on things like Carbon tax, gasoline tax, or other externalities. The idea is, since we all breathe the air, we should all be compensated equally for the polluting of our air.
Yes, my guess with all the numbers, the marginal tax rate for higher incomes will need to go higher as well. Do not know how much, but considering the huge good we would have by giving everyone a basic income. I know I would get taxed extra and still think worth it.
Now you are worried specifically about discouraging workers. Well we are talking about 12,000 a year. Those who make more than that won't stop working cause they are given a basic income. Those who are willing to stop working for only 12,000 a year are not the most productive workers anyway. Few teenagers may not work. Some new mothers may decide not to work. Some jobs like Wal-Mart greeters may disappear. Again, you are not losing the most productive workers here, if any.
This could have lots of side benefits as well. Ex. Crimes of desperation would go way down. As why risk jail and losing ur freedom for a few hundred bucks if you are getting enough to live on already.
Iaor December 24, 2016
This may have been true at some point, but ever since the industrial revolution the world has needed fewer and fewer ditch diggers until at some point in the near future all menial labor will be done by machines. Most of the jobs of the early 1800s world no longer exist, as gradually machines have taken them over. Ditch diggers? Really? When was the last time you saw 100s of men lined up along the side of the road with shovels. I doubt you are old enough to remember.
Brivestas December 17, 2016
Could be an idea he had called [Spaceship Earth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceship_Earth), which is better known as one of the driving themes behind [EPCOT](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceship_Earth_\(Epcot\))
Ybele December 14, 2016
If such a system could exist I still think that individual people would need to work towards something. My concern would be that if the need for jobs was removed many people would just sit at home and play video games or wander the streets pointlessly rather than devote themselves to a passion. I'm sure we would get many great philosophers, artists, musicians, and writers if the need to work a 9-5 job was suddenly gone, but I think the majority of people would probably just waste away not doing much. People need a drive or passion in their life and for the time being careers are what that is for most people.
Nyem December 11, 2016
There were absolutely no rules stopping universities from upping tuition without providing more service, and Congress was complicit by just loaning more money instead of asking why things were getting more expensive than the market dictated.
If you increase debt instead of limiting cost, you get a student debt crisis.
Two ways to avoid this:
(1) Don't increase the amount given.
(2) Either regulate costs or demand explanation when costs go up.
The state in which I live demands public explanation from our main power company and a public vote before they are allowed to raise rates. It's perfectly doable, you just have to have a government that favors citizens instead of business.
hobbyrobie186 November 28, 2016
Maybe people would actually start to get paid what it is worth for doing those jobs.
Odynu November 26, 2016
Really like your explination, but you might want to expand your bottom point of Crimes….less crimes = less prisoners = less dat prison(court) money.
It costs CALI $47,102 per year per person, get rid of all the minor drug offenders/homeless/crimes of desperation that's a lot of $ to go toward the UBI
sarkisian93 November 25, 2016
> Capitalism and competition built the modern world
What prevents us from moving on to another way of building our future? A world in which we don't compete but instead collaborate.
We are wise enough to put our minds and resources together but we are still pursuing money, power and control above all else.
That's not a sign of a modern and evolved society.
Oasi November 22, 2016
You're really overthinking this. We already do welfare, right? Unconditional basic income is welfare for everybody, equally, all the time, without question. The number of people choosing to live at that level of frugality isn't going to skyrocket.
> I would also note that considering the technological advancements of the past century, it's pretty amazing to me that we still find it necessary to work 40+ hours a week in order to have what's considered a "real job."
That's exactly the problem. All advancements have gone toward higher profits and lower prices – even the "labor-saving" inventions never actually save labor. The moment we reduce how many man-hours it takes to accomplish what we already do, we insist on maxing out our new capacity. Constant improvement is fine… but we're putting no value on free time. We have to strike a balance or we'll eventually find ourselves in Jetsonian button-pushing jobs for eight hours a day.
Mcglade666 November 20, 2016
> When was the last time you saw a hamburger vending machine on the side of the road?
Undihin November 18, 2016
It can, but not to the degree of effectiveness it has with people filing those roles.
On the contrary, situations obviously exist where a company needs to reduce spending, and the quickest way to do so is by reducing headcount. However, production trends to reduce as well in these cases, and those positions are refilled when possible. Usually this happens when demand for the companies produce wanes and they need to adjust their supply to compensate.
swedberg November 17, 2016
> We're creating superfluous jobs to keep the economy "growing"
I find this assertion especially contestable.
I'm not aware of a single person, throughout the entirety of my lifetime, who had a job that was created simply because that person needed a way to earn money.
Everyone that I currently work with has a role. That role is not made up. The idea that this would happen is quite silly actually.
Can you imagine? A for-profit company imagining new ways to pay people they don't need?
We have a director because we need leadership. We have HR staff to hire/fire, train, work out issues employees may be having, administer benefits, etc. We have IT people to keep our infrastructure running. We don't have a single person on staff who's job is to stand around and collect a paycheck. I know that joke gets made often, but it's a joke.
Automation isn't great because it deprecates jobs. Automation is great because it allows those jobs to be allocated elsewhere.
So we don't have 100 people knitting socks anymore. Instead, we have machines do that. And we have machine operators. And mechanics. And engineers. And people who run the machines that make the machines. And people to run the website, interface with customers, handle purchasing, accounts payable, accounts receivable. And volume is through the roof.
And everyone has socks.
Korah November 17, 2016
Yeah [he's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller) an idiot…
"Fuller published more than 30 books, coining or popularizing terms such as "Spaceship Earth", ephemeralization, and synergetic. He also developed numerous inventions, mainly architectural designs, including the widely known geodesic dome."
"Buckminster Fuller was the second president of Mensa from 1974 to 1983"
Garan November 9, 2016
Quotes like this are cool to sit around and think about while you're tripping on acid, but sadly that isn't the way the world and the dynamics of human societies work.
southwickship5 November 4, 2016
She/He probably meant to say "humane".
In which case I would agree with them.
Rynepi November 4, 2016
Machinery absolutely replaces jobs, because the designers / builders / maintainers are always much fewer in number than the people who'd otherwise be doing the job manually. The implication that all the ditch-diggers can "just become designers / builders / maintainers" is rubbish. We don't need them for that. They may find similar work as the markets for those careers expand, but that's new work that formerly didn't need doing. We are descending into ever-less-necessary jobs – but everyone's still busting their ass eight hours a day, five days a week. At what point do we collectively admit we're comfortable and relax a little?
Ludser November 3, 2016
If I am correct in understanding your principle of UBI, then it sounds like an unstigmatized and elevated form of welfare where everyone receives enough to live on just because they should.
But where is the money coming from?
The government is perhaps our first option, but like welfare, UBI would then be paid for by revenue received from taxes *which are derived from these very jobs that you would do away with*. No jobs means no income tax, which means *greatly* reduced government services. This in turn reduces the standard of living,
So the government's out. What about private sources? Surely the 1% would be fine… Yea, right.
It's a great idea but really poorly thought out. What he's talking about here is a complete overhaul of the way not just one country does business, but the entire global economic system.
Emn November 1, 2016
Amen. And yet the more supposedly advanced we become, the more ingrained and pernicious this notion becomes.
ShellieFiles October 16, 2016
Man, if only someone could design a machine that could dig a ditch… or flip a burger.
RomaMcray October 15, 2016
This is very silly to me and I think its way too much text to be called a quote. I don't expect people to have to earn their right to be here, but how else are you going to pass your days, especially for a 70+ year existence? Laying around and making up reasons not to work? Buddhists have chores because it is a cathartic process. I find I feel better emotionally and physically when I am given a task or project. Am I wrong for feeling the delusion of purpose when I am doing a task?
Ludser October 14, 2016
Many ITT seem incapable of understanding work without the survival impetus. Some people do work because they want to. Some people work for the status, some for the money(not survival money but money money), some for the good it does others or themselves. It's like no one has ever met a nun or a monk or a LCSW (a masters degree to make $25k). So many science or math teachers or writers or painters are broke but well qualified to do something that makes more money but they don't.
TL:DR some folks seem really freaked out by the **IDEA** ofbwork being less mandatory.
Esstiaing October 14, 2016
If it involved walking for eight hours a day, and I could keep the lights on and food on the table, that'd be awesome.
lamoureux89 October 13, 2016
Indeed, there are many uses for the unemployed, like helping to make the world a better place by helping others, building infrastructure etc
Stramald October 10, 2016
Isn't that kind of what we have now?
At least that's how the current "Providers" see it.
walters1981 October 9, 2016
Universal income doesn't mean that you can't earn money. If no one wants to crawl through the sewers for $9.25/hr, raise the wage until everyone wants to, or at least someone wants to.
MeghannBoardman October 9, 2016
to quote my father, "the world needs ditch diggers."
for our society to function at this level, we will always need menial laborers to do the "drudgery."
if you, the technological genius, want to walk down the street and eat a burger, somebody's gotta flip it for you. how will you get this person to flip your burger for you without the offer of 'making a living'?
Mylil October 4, 2016
I'd love to go back to school, if it were completely free both in cost and risk and I were taken care of with food, shelter and entertainment needs.
Daros September 29, 2016
And just because there are bullshit jobs out there doesn't mean that the economy is on average making up bullshit jobs out of nowhere. We see layoffs all the time in business, bullshit jobs are the first thing to go anytime a business runs into "tough times".
Tryt September 27, 2016
> how to decide who toils and who doesn't
Supply and demand? Give some money to the moochers, and give a *lot* of money to the providers?
barbozaIsland September 25, 2016
wow it's pretty weird how i agree with this guy saying i shouldn't have to get a job
Sulghaeng September 22, 2016
The point is you get to chose what do do with your time. 70+ year old can volunteer, write a novel, or just sit on his butt in front of TV. Making 70 year olds waste their time as wal-mart greeters to make ends meet do think enriches people's life as much as you think. Doing tasks are important, but you get much more out of tasks you chose than tasks you are forced to do.
GaleBostick September 17, 2016
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll gladly take $50k/yr of the state's money in exchange for not going to jail. Hell, I'll even do it for 40k so I'm saving them money.
lamoureux89 September 9, 2016
>Your napkin math is completely wrong because you assume that everyone would simply stop working. That absolutely would not happen. Maybe up to a quarter of the population would stop at best.
It's unconditional income. That has to go to everyone regardless if they're working or not.
Eldoq September 8, 2016
We are stunting our own growth right now. Progress comes to some extent from monetary incentive, but the biggest breakthroughs come from free, unencumbered minds following their passions and trying to make things better for other people. Some people are selfish now and will be in the next society, but technology has already afforded us the capability to care for the weakest among us, if we only would make that choice. Who cares if they are not contributing? We need to redefine what is important in life, and that is *doing something,* not *having things.* Seeing things from this perspective will destroy any pettiness you feel about people being lazy, which they invariably will be.
Iceru September 6, 2016
Just because you can list jobs that aren't bullshit doesn't mean there don't exist bullshit jobs
AdalbertoHumes September 3, 2016
But /u/arturenault's point still stands… How do we select who "toils" to use your word?
Ongha September 2, 2016
>UBI would then be paid for by revenue received from taxes *which are derived from these very jobs that you would do away with*.
The whole point is that the same level of production can be achieved – and therefore the same GDP can be taxed – while employing less than 80% of the population full-time. You wouldn't lose tax revenue under this system, as long as you raise income and capital gains tax in order to keep the employed as wealthy as they are now.
Usklor September 2, 2016
We're getting there. We're not quite there, but I feel like we're at the point where we can have 30 hour work weeks. Hell, that's what the work week was at the start of America.
Oldtiavor August 30, 2016
Wait… what if all the teachers quit *their* jobs too?
RSpofford August 30, 2016
I totally agree, we are all selfish.
As you said we are all very different, products of our education, the country we were born in, our languages, the advertising we are subjected to, etc..
But some day maybe in a distant future the differences will attenuate, if we grow over that idea that we are right and the others aren't.
The US are a good example of what could be achieved someday, Europe is trying to do the same, to regroup people into a larger culture where everyone can be different but still function and recognize themselves as members of a bigger group. This could be extended to the whole planet.
You might know this idea: what would happen if we discovered alien life, or if aliens landed on earth? It would change our world forever and could unite us in ways that we can't yet imagine, even with our differences. A similar effect would be achieved in the face of an imminent natural catastrophe such as a menacing asteroid or extreme rising temperatures.
Differences are only important when there is no higher commonality.
When astronauts look at the earth from the moon and see it as a whole they don't see differences, they just see one planet, one human race.
While I agree with you on most of what you said I do not understand why the idea of a single human race working together in a system where resources are shared, where greed, power and selfishness are contained, where a higher purpose is found, why such a system where we collaborate instead of compete would crumble under its own weight.
Rodel August 28, 2016
He's right. We should all just quit our jobs and go back to school. That would totally work.
Zimmermann169 August 26, 2016
You've pretty much described Switzerland to a Swiss citizen. I stayed with a Swiss couple where the boyfriend worked half the year as a welder, quit and used his savings and unemployment to make music and hang out with friends all day.
Lucessinger98 August 24, 2016
>Machinery doesn't replace jobs, it displaces them.
Sure they do. A machine is more efficient and efficiency requires less labor.
Nyest August 23, 2016
You are completely missing the point. At no point does he say anything about people not needing to work. He simply says that people don't need to "earn a living." The distinction is slight but important.
Right now people work so that they can feed themselves and house themselves. They are forced to work so that they can have the very basic necessities that will keep them alive. In essence we are forced to work to prove that we deserve to live. But since (as Fuller says) we have a society that produces enough sustenance for the whole with the toil of the minority, we don't have enough jobs for everyone.
So sure enough we end up with a society of people who are starving because they can't find a job. Even if they are highly eager and qualified to "work."
CarlGuerrier August 23, 2016
This clearly misses the most basic principles of economics.
In the very statement that 1 in 10,000 people make tech breakthroughs that could support all the rest, I can only assume, means that they make enough money off their breakthrough that they could pay for the basic needs of the other 9,999.
Problems I see with this: how will the 1 make all that money when nobody is earning their own way? They can no longer pay for his product. Are the 9,999 forced to live on a fixed income and have no say in the matter? Are they allowed to try and earn more money?
We could come up with many more problems, but that is sufficient I think.
This is a fantasy that encourages laziness and childish living. Stop perpetuating this ignorant crap.
Schiat August 21, 2016
woodgears.ca ◄- this man quit his job as a computer programmer and worked out of his basement selling sketchup plans for his complex wooden machines.
Perfect example in my opinion
Daros August 18, 2016
and enables that low skill worker to focus on getting a degree, or learning a trade, without a shitty job distracting their studies.
Eldoq August 13, 2016
There would be an enormous number of ~~burger flippers~~ Fine Arts majors who would quit their jobs and pursue art for it's own sake — and that's a good thing.
Esstiaing August 7, 2016
I actually agree with you, but what do we do in the meantime? Just roll the dice? "Sorry Bob, you have to pick up shit until the science guys figure out the robots. Maybe your kids will fair better in the lottery?" This is always the problem with idealistic worldviews like Communism. How do you make your perfect idea work on imperfect people? Because even once we have the robots, there will be menial jobs maintaining them or managing the planetary warehouse they are shipped from. And Bob's kid may have to take that boring ass job instead of starfleet commander because Bob didn't have the influence to get him into a nice academy when he was young…
Like I said, I basically agree with you, but the real world always starts complicating our best laid plans.
Nulad August 4, 2016
What about, for example, open source software? Tons of very talented people are writing completely free versions of most all software anyone could ever need, and they do it mostly because the problem is interesting enough to work on, not because they expect to become rich giving out free software.
Haizden August 2, 2016
Just imagine the amount of societal change that would occur when the creative minded people are free to work on their own creative ideas without being limited by a job. Artists are very important for a society but capitalism crushes a big percentage of them.
MeghannBoardman July 30, 2016
How am I supposed to take this quote seriously with that Sagan-esque background?
StacyHickox July 30, 2016
When science as we know it was forming in the 1700/1800s, virtually all the work was done by and all discoveries made by the idle rich. These are people who had absolutely no need to work a day of their lives, and they have created the world we now enjoy for no other reason than they felt the urge to learn and discover. The idea that people won't work if they don't have to is nonsense.
ShellieFiles July 26, 2016
Most of us wish we could live that way but we can't.
walters1981 July 26, 2016
"It's as if someone were out there making up pointless jobs just for the sake of keeping us all working. And here, precisely, lies the mystery. In capitalism, this is precisely what is not supposed to happen. Sure, in the old inefficient socialist states like the Soviet Union, where employment was considered both a right and a sacred duty, the system made up as many jobs as they had to (this is why in Soviet department stores it took three clerks to sell a piece of meat). But, of course, this is the very sort of problem market competition is supposed to fix. According to economic theory, at least, the last thing a profit-seeking firm is going to do is shell out money to workers they don't really need to employ. Still, somehow, it happens."
[***On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs***](http://www.strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/) ~ David Graeber, Professor of Anthropology at the London School of Economics.
Darpolo July 26, 2016
As a civil engineer I can assure you we still need ditch diggers. There is a reason when I do my cost estimates that there is a cost of labor assessment. Or as a non-engineer just look at a construction site. You see people for a reason, less people maybe and they will continue to decrease but you will always need people to run equipment and maintain them.
Neab July 23, 2016
>but the biggest breakthroughs come from free, unencumbered minds following their passions and trying to make things better for other people.
Do you actually believe this bullshit? Capitalism and competition built the modern world. Not wishful thinking and not people doing stuff "for free."
milonekilone4 July 15, 2016
If hypothetically through automation and eliminating currency we are able to eliminate 75% jobs that doesn't mean 25% still have to work. It means 100% of the people split that up, you would only work 4 months out of the year. How does a month of work then two months off sound?
Esstiaing July 14, 2016
By extension of your logic; life is essentially meaningless unless we are given tasks to complete… left to our own devices we would just wander around aimlessly…??
I think the key here is that the "drive or passion" as you say, that people need is not being provided by their careers, at least not for the vast majority of workers. Most people I know are either just satisfied with or simply tolerate their "careers", allowing them to maybe pursue their passions after hours… if they still have the energy.
NelsonBakken July 13, 2016
Sure, who wouldn't spend some time enjoying live, in ide pleasures. I think that that eventually some of those people will get bored, and some them will go on to make something..
I'm not saying that everyone will be more productive, however, just go to a SciFi Con, or a Maker's Fair, look at what people make now, in their free time.
rowles09 July 11, 2016
Not a single labor-saving invention has ever reduced the hours we work. Capitalism's incentives place no value on human comfort – price is everything. Thus whenever machines double productivity, half the workforce gets fired. We could instead pay them all the same salary for half-days. We don't. We never will, so long as capital and profit drive every decision. We will be stuck forever in this 40-hour paper-pushing tedium, chasing marginal improvements over what machines alone could do, struggling to let more people accomplish less work between them – unless we insist that societal interests and free time have meaning.
brusswszech July 10, 2016
> which means greatly reduced government services.
Whoa. Why can't we take away from our NSA spying budget? Pentagon budget? Defense budget? We have the funds to do some things that would blow your mind. It's the priorities of our Gov't that is so warped.
Yuania July 9, 2016
While yes, single jobs are useful in the context of them existing within the business, can the business not continue to run if it shuts down multiple of those at the same time?
AlexTibbs July 8, 2016
Just because someone is quoted doesn't make what they said profound or truthful. This is a terrible notion. While it certainly has it's advantages and sounds wonderful. It's like communism. On paper it sounds great but in practice it will always fail miserably when applied to a large group of people.
MilesVickers July 4, 2016
Yay, we fixed society!
There still must be a lot of drawbacks. Nothing is perfect. We just need to figure them out and fix them.
Suloon July 3, 2016
Have you never achieved anything in your life by cooperating with others instead of competing with them? If you answered yes then you will have to agree that struggle and competition are not the only way to achieve great things.
Iaor July 1, 2016
Without digging too deep into a discussion that's already been made higher in the thread, if everyone was making a basic universal income, it would actually relieve pressure on employers to have higher wages for *everything*, generally lowering the cost of goods.
Jobs that are particularly difficult or disgusting would probably need to be more competitive, it's possible that we would see some inflation because of a rise in wages for difficult/dangerous jobs, but it wouldn't be outrageous, because how many production jobs are so difficult/dangerous that the wages would need to increase more significantly, to attract people, than they are now? We could effectively eliminate a federally mandated minimum wage. People would accept 10k a year for flipping burgers, manufacturing products, or tending cash registers, because they're already making 12k a year guaranteed.
And really, shouldn't people who volunteer to do difficult/dangerous jobs earn significantly more money? No one gets bent out of shape about the effects of inflation when CEO's all across the country make 100x their highest paid employee, when they could be comfortable earning significantly less, decreasing the price of their products, lowering inflation in the process.
Rannund June 30, 2016
I know people who get paid to literally do nothing due to having tenure with a labor union
TyroneVautour June 26, 2016
you're assuming that no-one would want to work, I'll bet enough people would get satisfaction from working, but now they're free to walk away if the job sucks.
I'm reminded by the TED talk by Mike Rowe, who mentions that people picking up road-kill as their job whistle while they work. Even the dirty jobs would still get done. But a person could determine for him or herself how they would enjoy life.
Perhaps its too utopic a view, but I certainly hope to see a society where we choose to work, rather than feel obligated to.
Ongha June 26, 2016
This brings up a realization that has been slowly growing in my thoughts for many years. Working in a factory when I was younger, I saw first-hand how machinery could be designed to do the jobs of several people. I started to realize that eventually we would have automated systems in place for a large majority of our labor needs, AND we would have goods being produced and delivered and ever higher quantities and lower prices. Eventually there would be very few "jobs", but people would need to earn more money for doing less work so the economy could continue to function.
I never understood how that would happen, but recently I've started to realize that it is happening, only the extra funds resultant from automation within the workplace are being funneled to those in charge – executives, presidents, CEOs. I should have seen that coming.
Mcglade666 June 23, 2016
Your napkin math is completely wrong because you assume that everyone would simply stop working. That absolutely would not happen. Maybe up to a quarter of the population would stop at best.
What would be interesting is to see how this affects things like fast food. Noone would ever deal with the bullshit for a minor bump in income. This means that suddenly the fast food industry either adapts or dies. Employees wouldn't be expendable anymore. Whatever employees actually stay would have to be paid more, and since they aren't expendable, they wouldn't deal with bullshit from customers and "customer is always right" crap would die overnight.
More people would be able to have better education since they could save for a while to pay for classes and simply stop working to do those classes since they could still live off nothing.
This has a gajillion implications across the board, but I think most of those have good results.
Cheann June 22, 2016
Translation: if you are smart and talented you should work your ass off to provide for idiots who will enjoy their lifes and Multiply.
Very. Nice. Idea.
Stramald June 17, 2016
I always thought it was the beginning of a Star Trek style society. When you **know** you will be able to live and eat doing absolutely fuck all then you left to pursue the things that interest you the most.
Man, if you couple this with free higher level education I think some shit would start to change for the better.
goodellkol June 15, 2016
Look at the Renaissance. Some of the most prolific and brilliant artists came from that period because those with money recognized their genius and became their patrons thus eliminating (or removing a large part) of their necessity of having a job to support themselves. They were free to create great works in pretty much all fields of the visual arts including advancing architecture and engineering.
chrisman9020 June 6, 2016
If people had the bare minimums, they wouldn't need to concern themselves with wasting 80% of their lives surviving. Instead they could come up with innovations or be free to pursue other options. You simply can't make a blanket statement like that. People get bored of enjoying. They want to contribute something to the world.
Ensulard June 2, 2016
Absolutely. I would like to think that would be the case. I can't say I have many examples of this from the people in my life who don't *absolutely have* to work, but I would like to think that people like that are out there.
ArletteMaddix May 28, 2016
You earn a living because your forefathers decided to eliminate the chance of you running through a forest ,spear in hand and draging your still bleeding lunch back to your cave.There are a great many people who think this was a serious error of judgement.
Rac May 28, 2016
I also think that (some of) those who aren't tied down by work can utilize their time creatively and originally. They might enrich society in unexpected ways
ArletteMaddix May 21, 2016
Why do you imagine people would be *less* inclined to pursue their interests if they don't have to come home exhausted every weekday?
Anyway, basic guaranteed income doesn't mean eliminating jobs. Most people would still have them, because however much stuff they have, they'll want more. That's just how we're wired. It just means that careers are things you choose for passion or particular ability instead of things you choose because the alternative is homelessness and grinding poverty.
Endvesa May 21, 2016
> that's new work that formerly didn't need doing
Isn't that his point?
Mylil May 19, 2016
Isn't it strange how biased words are? You say people need to struggle and I say people need a challenge. Which I think it more accurate. People with great goals can accomplish amazing things, which is exactly what capitalism shows. We don't need money to do things we just need motivation, a goal.
Belacha May 18, 2016
Napkin math indicates this idea is not economically feasible large scale. Providing every adult in the US with $12k annually would cost ~2.7 trillion. The 2013 budget was around 3.6T, and (very) roughly .4T of that could be categorized as the sorts of welfare programs that might be rolled into UBI.
Theres no way the US can pull an extra 2.3 trillion dollars of revenue, no matter what you do with taxes. You could double taxes across the board and you still wouldn't be able to fund it. This assumes we wouldnt just fund it with debt, but hopefully adding an extra 2 trillion to our annual debt is universally agreed as insane.
Unless we would also be rolling social security and medicaid into UBI? Would still come up quite short, but then we do get to something potentially feasible. I could see social security working (would depend on what payments are for that right now, I've got no idea how much people that are drawing SS get per year), but medicare would be a bit iffier because medical expenses arent really evenly distributed and I'm sure $12k/year wouldnt be enough for people with bad disease things.
Cool idea and all, but, thats a lot of money.
Darpolo May 16, 2016
Not sure if you're being a smart ass or serious, but if they could get a machine to replace a McDoalds worker don't you think they would?
Cheann May 15, 2016
All of those processes (jobs) you've mentioned could be automated or could be accomplished by doing things slightly differently; all without the need to subject a human being to a soul crushing existence.
As for fallibility, I would take a well designed mechanical system over reliance on a human based system of minimum wage workers any day.
Capitalism has served us well for the last few hundred years; feudalism served us well for a while too but we eventually advanced beyond it's benefit. Capitalism too will need to be restructured if it is to survive in a post scarcity economy just as we will need to start thinking outside our current confines of dogma if we are to survive as a species… or at least to continue to advance as one.
Adir May 14, 2016
I work on a team developing a new breast cancer treatment, one that spans all time zones and is on every continent except Antarctica. However, we are pushed very hard by the fact that competitors are trying to be the first one also to prove this new class of drug so I do not see competition and cooperation as mutually exclusive. I also compete with some of my teammates for raises.
Belacha May 13, 2016
Understand I'm not looking to argue because I see the truth in this concept BUT there will always be necessary jobs that require a human to work if for no other reason than to overlook the automation not to mention the many jobs that could never be automated.
So arturenaults point still stands, how to decide who toils and who doesn't.
Just a small bump in the concept but a problem none the less.
persaud May 11, 2016
Agreed, communism as it was could not work.
But do keep in mind that a world where we put things *in common*, where we share and collaborate is still a valid idea, preferable to the selfish rate race mess we live in.
LucienneDewees May 11, 2016
Warning: Lived around French/Swiss border for 10 years, would not say it was much like that.
Stramald May 10, 2016
I don't see why this couldn't work. Sure it's like communism but do you honestly believe there's not some type of modification that could be made to communism or something similar that would allow it to be effective? I think this is the same way, it would require a system that was very well thought out beforehand and able to be adapted when they find things that simply don't work. But it is possible.
Reavis2000 May 3, 2016
Indeed, but failiure has a kind of finality no longer present in modern society.
hyunsc2 May 3, 2016
Projecting ourselves in the future we can imagine a world were people would be allowed to pursue what they are good at instead of having jobs that don't bring anything to humanity.
We can imagine a system where profit and ego are not the drive but instead where everything is centered around preservation of nature, education, the evolution of our race, technological progress, the well-being of all humans and animals, space exploration etc.
And yes, the concept of debt would need to be abolished, that would make us more human.
Ybele April 27, 2016
Don't forget he wanted to use the leftover bombs from WWII, dropped from blimps, to dig foundations for his geometric homes.
Rannund April 26, 2016
> Pizza Delivery Guy: You want pizza delivered to your door? You need this guy.
Self-driving cars are on the way. The pizza delivery process could definitely be automated.
> Mini Putt Stand Operator: You want to play Mini Golf? You need this guy.
Kiosk style. Swipe your card, get your ball and your putter. If your ball or putter isn't returned, you get charged for them.
> Bus Boy: Do you want to bus and wash your own plates when you go to a restaurant?
I suppose busing tables could technically be automated, but I don't see that being very realistic. But on the other hand, dishwashers.
Cashiers aren't necessary. Many stores already have self-checkouts where one or two people monitor 5-10 checkout areas.
A lot of customer support has already been automated. Sure there are times when you actually need to talk to a person, but everyone requiring basic support (paying a bill, checking a balance, etc) doesn't need to connect to an actual person.
Along the same lines as self-driving cars for pizza delivery: valet workers will no longer be necessary. As well as pretty much any sort of delivery/transport driver.
Plenty of manufacturing/assembly jobs now only require a fraction of the manpower that they once did, and that number will decrease as automation becomes more sophisticated.
They're not bullshit jobs in the sense that they don't need to be done. But they don't need to be done *by a person*.
And then you have truly useless jobs like most of the TSA. A lot of bureaucratic jobs (as you said, some are necessary, but many aren't). You might even consider those who have 40hr/week jobs that only require a fraction of that to actually do their work to be similarly categorized. Not that the job is useless, but the time required to spend on it is.
Stramald April 26, 2016
Totally agree. The point is to find what you love to do. No one wants to sit around all day and do nothing – finding joy in *some* type of creative process will result in a much more beautiful world.
Therein lies what I think the key to the quote is: *The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.*
edit: format
Mcaaast9 April 23, 2016
In my opinion, right now we have moochers who get very little (and are made to feel bad about mooching), moochers who game the system and get quite a bit (and are also made to feel bad), providers who get very little, providers who get a lot, and… a whole bunch of people who "work" but don't provide much, most of which get little and a few of which get a whole lot.
Cerlory April 17, 2016
"absolutely specious notion." bullshit.
If we got rid of that notion, 1/10,000 people would make significant technological breakthroughs, and 9,999/10,000 people buried in debt from youthful romanticism.
Btw, Buck*minster* Fuller.
Oslt April 17, 2016
If you genuinely can't imagine what you'd do if not for someone paying you to do what they want, you have my sincere pity.
> Buddhists have chores because it is a cathartic process.
Yes, exactly. Money is not the only reason to do stuff. People find their interests and pursue them. If your interests are being paid for doing something – why would basic guaranteed income prevent that?
Brivestas April 15, 2016
>Again, you are not losing the most productive workers here, if any.
It also frees the people up to leave these bullshit jobs that don't really need to exist and don't pay very well, such as a Wal-Mart greeter, to engage in productive work that capitalism has no way of recognizing as productive because it doesn't make money for anyone. Raising one's children is probably the best example of this.
LeolaBou April 14, 2016
The difference is that the guys at the top of that 'provider' chain pocket most of the money, whereas the people actually *creating the value* get paid a fraction of the value of their work.
People who play this imaginary game called 'speculation,' – let's use housing and real estate as an example – can make hundreds of thousands of dollars or more betting in a largely fictional marketplace on the future value of things. The people who *actually make the things* which fuel this market and provide the actual tangible value to the national economy are lucky to pull $10 an hour. It doesn't make sense from any but a nakedly exploitative perspective.
tischDE April 14, 2016
What do you mean by "carry their own weight"? Contribute by working endless hours in a meaningless job that provides absolutely no fulfillment and actually hinders personal happiness?
If you have a passion – say music, art, architecture, food, making banjos, or *whatever-the-fuck-you-can-think-of*, chances are there are enough people in the world that share the same interest that can help support and sustain livelihood. The advent of the internet has enabled communities of like-minded people to find each other all over the world and share in the same passions.
Queton April 12, 2016
To be clear; I would equally consider that to be earning a living.
codayrzeszow April 7, 2016
*gasp* Are you saying that there are people that teach to earn a living?? Outlandish!
EloyVanostrand April 6, 2016
That's the thing about these kinds of ideas. They sound cool in a paragraph, but if you ever actually tried to put a calculator to it, it'd take you 30 seconds to realize it's crap.
LeotaBerkeley April 5, 2016
i think the whole point is theres no need for money since your only goal is to realize whatever personal goals you have (learning things youre interested in, growing as a person) instead of the goals society sets for you, aka a meaningless job that simply exists so that you have a job and can pay for things you need.
that said, the whole idea is bullshit. the only example of a meaningless job he can come up with is inspectors, that disregards anyone in any kind of service industry from food production and distribution to trash pickup. unless this quote seriously implies that all of those jobs can be replaced by robots, in which case i again call bullshit because i dont want to deal with a robot when i buy things i want to deal with a living human being who can understand my concerns and address them.
RobbynDosch April 5, 2016
The guys who designed the machine to deliver power to other machines. Like some huge wires or something.
LatashiaReece April 1, 2016
Struggle is what brings greatness in humans and it is what drove evolution for billions of years. Evolution and struggle are the natural results of the laws of physics. You don't wish them away with happy thoughts. If you look at the most "evolved" societies on Earth today, you have to look at Europe, which is running out of money to pay for their social programs and their birth rate is WELL below replacement. Its not a sustainable model if you make life too easy.
I hope theres a better way than the past and the bankrupt ideas of the modern liberal state, but I have yet to see one beyond "there must be a way."
Endrr March 27, 2016
Lets take all those stupidly smart grads working in the financial sector building AI stock trading programs, and instead pay them well for automating labor of civil engineering.(Obviously different but I think you might sort of get my thinking)
Oughumde March 22, 2016
And boom we have inflation. Jobs pay more, things in turn cost more, how is this different than the current welfare system?
ShellieFiles March 19, 2016
Fuller is popular among hipsters, trust fund babies, and collage aged white males who don't have jobs yet are very educated.
Now if you need me, I'll be in the desert of the real.
LatashiaReece March 14, 2016
On the contrary, I'm assuming no one would stop working. If people stopped working, revenue goes down and the funding deficit gets even larger.
UBI is *Universal*, its not just a name for "Neverending unemployment benefits". Thats "Guaranteed Minimum Income", an entirely different system.
chrisman9020 March 13, 2016
If you think construction work is nearing automation, you are so very wrong. The world needs ditch diggers. The amount of human labor required to build anything, maintain anything etc is staggering.
And what on earth do you mean "we have reached a level where we can compensate (them) much more"? That we have vast pools of tax money that we can pay them that is otherwise unused? What "level"?
I don't think you've thought your argument through at all.
DianHohn March 13, 2016
They volunteer. If, overnight, everyone was fired, would chefs stop cooking? Would teachers stop teaching?
Sure, there are lots of jobs that would go unfilled, but there are better ways to fill them than playing musical chairs. Start pragmatically- if nobody is volunteering for, say, janitor, grab all the folks who have experience with the job. Now, instead of offering a "living wage" ask them what benefits they would want. Whatever they clean ought to provide those benefits or operate such that they don't need a janitor.The point is to flip the perspective from "I need a job" to "Jobs need me".
For some reason we think 8% 10% X% unemployment is a bad thing but in reality, the goal is 100%! What would the immediate impact look like? Vending machines. Freaking. Everywhere. I'm typing in a mall right now and 50-60% of the positions here are waste. I pay overhead to put food in their mouths, but the service they provide is, at best, the same I'd get from a vending machine or self checkout.
But hold on a second- food isn't free. Where's all this money going?
*Markup*. Every thing sold has markup. Ham, cheese, and bread at a supermarket costs a lot less than at a diner.
*IP*. Bought clothing lately? You weren't paying for cotton.
Zapes March 12, 2016
I like the idea of pursuing passion, but I am also so sick of people feeling that it is somehow a tragic crime that they are required to carry their own weight.
Where did this idea come from that there are just hordes of wealth lying around and all we have to do is divide it up equitably? Life (and civilization) requires continuous effort. Life is still beautiful.
It is not tragic or wrong that we can't just play in the kid's corner our whole lives.
Eldrdan March 9, 2016
Finally, someone in the comments with a little common sense. Seems like it's becoming less and less common these days.
Awust March 5, 2016
I think it's worth pointing out that productivity should, maybe, go up. Many people 'have' to work to support their families. If the people who really wanted to work were doing it, it might be done better or more efficiently.
barbozaIsland March 4, 2016
Here is info on the Canadian experiment:
codayrzeszow March 4, 2016
While I agree with the premise here, it does bring up some problems. For example, if only some people work, how do we divide up the limited resources? How do we reward the 1/10 people who come up with technology that benefits the thousands? What about the people who decide to take on some of the dirtier jobs society needs (waste management, food production, etc.). Do we expect that everyone gets a minimum, and you can work extra to achieve extra things? How much separation is acceptable?
I love the notion of a society where everyone works toward the common good of man, but the bottom line is that many people are lazy and irresponsible. At what point are they expected to contribute, or "earn their share."
I will agree, however, that we have created meaningless jobs for the sake of giving someone a chance to "earn it," which doesn't really help anyone. I would also note that considering the technological advancements of the past century, it's pretty amazing to me that we still find it necessary to work 40+ hours a week in order to have what's considered a "real job." In many cases, technology has enabled our employers to expect even MORE of us ("Why haven't you responded to the email I sent you an hour ago?!")
In my mind the primary obstacles are greed and fear, and it's a pretty hairy one. If you don't work the 40 hours, someone else will. You're primary options are to accept a life of drudgery and sacrifice most of your time and energy to a task that means little to yourself personally and the world around you, or to live a life where you are unable to support your basic needs and also appear lazy and unproductive, which will make it even more difficult for you to find any form of employment at all.
The personal cost required to achieve one's bare minimum needs are definitely too high. Demanding that bar be lowered is going to require people to stick their neck out, which again will make it difficult for you to find any kind of employment.
Uskunte March 4, 2016
Without minimum wage working in these mcjobs(no offense), inflation would occur.
What used to be a $4 burger would now cost $10, due to inavailability of cheap labour.
Suddenly, the $2,000 per month that the government gives to you doesn't go quite as far, and your standard of living goes down.
Endvesa February 24, 2016
Offer them income in excess of ubi. I guarantee everybody would work if it was the difference between having a tv/phone/car and not.
Radbel February 22, 2016
We handsomely pay whoever's willing to put up with it. Even with basic guaranteed income, most people will choose to work, because stuff would still cost money and basic income would never cover *all* the stuff that people want.
Sayeche February 21, 2016
Not doing anything for a living is great work if you can find it.
Ceribo February 13, 2016
I liked George Clooney's line in The Descendants about giving his kids enough money to do something, but not enough to do nothing.
Neab February 10, 2016
FUCK YES! So much fuck yes. I wish I had known this quote existed so long ago. I have been having this argument with everyone in my life for years. This is what I want to tell every politician who is trying to "create jobs." Jobs are not something you are supposed to create, they are supposed to be a natural byproduct of a working society. If our society is functioning with the amount of jobs we currently have then we need to figure out something to do with the excess people besides jobs.
EunaCalifano February 8, 2016
Can I ask what a bullshit job is?
Because here is my rebuttal.
Pizza Delivery Guy: You want pizza delivered to your door? You need this guy.
Mini Putt Stand Operator: You want to play Mini Golf? You need this guy.
Bus Boy: Do you want to bus and wash your own plates when you go to a restaurant?
These are all bullshit jobs that I have worked, but they are all, in their own way, necessary.
The point is, all of these provide an essential service or function to an industry *where there is a market for them*. It is not anti-captitalism. It is the very definition of capitalism. Yes, they are frivolous and "not-necessary" in the black and white sense of things, but not a lot of things are. The world needs ditch diggers because the world needs ditches. It's that simple.
Though I suppose you believe this man is talking about bureaucratic jobs, like the inspector of the inspector mentioned in the quote. Of course, that doesn't serve capitalistic purpose in that there is no market. Dr. Graeber is correct in that belief. But the very reason is there is an inspector for the inspectors is the same reason that there are seatbelts as well as airbags in cars, and the same reason that you put a the safety on a gun and then lock it in a gun case – it is a stop gap measure.
And I don't know about you, but I'm glad there is more than one person checking the quality of my food.
codayrzeszow February 4, 2016
I wouldn't. Debt is the concept of negative moneys (i.e. you can spend more than you have). Without it, you couldn't possible take a shot at going to college or fund your research for a giant space ship etc. The negative effects of debt come from one's *miss-management* of debt, causing one to be "in debt".
czakNorris1 January 28, 2016
You need to read a lot more sci-fi to begin to broach the subject of Bucky and the universe not being related, son.
Hinoldo January 25, 2016
The point is automation and other advances in technology are making jobs that require "toiling" obsolete. For example, we have machines across MANY industries that handle the work that would have required human labor 100 years ago, but people are still working as much – if not, more – than we were back then. We're creating superfluous jobs to keep the economy "growing", when, in my opinion, we could be finding an equilibrium that enables everyone to pursue their passions.
EviaBruss January 23, 2016
Because then everyone would get 25,000 a year. That's almost enough to ENJOY life, and not just… not die.
Ingn January 23, 2016
Please cite a source for your statement that we're creating superfluous jobs to keep the economy growing. I'm fairly sure that the data shows that we're doing exactly the opposite, and have been for the better part of 30 years.
RSpofford January 21, 2016
> at some point, they're going to have to provide value to other people so that value may be returned to them.
He's saying with technology, we don't have to have every single person providing value. We have enough value.
Phois January 19, 2016
I know I'd be a lot more productive (productive being actually producing something of worth instead of flipping some more burgers) if I could just sit here and follow my passions instead of dedicating 8+ hours a day to a dead-end job that accomplishes nothing in the grand scheme of things. Hell, I'd even go back to school and learn about all the various subjects that interest me and just keep growing.
persaud January 17, 2016
I have no problem at all with working, but I hate the game we are all forced to play and the hoops we are made to jump through.
Inest January 15, 2016
Ah. I see, the space motif expresses a belief that this idea is outside our usual sphere, and mayhaps it is time he "come back down to earth"?
But yeah I agree, why the hell is that there?
christianson44 January 15, 2016
UBI -Unconditional basic income. If you give everyone enough to live on. Not luxury, but enough to live, then you won't have people toiling at worthless jobs just to earn money. Those who do decide to work can still earn lots of money.
Odynu January 13, 2016
I'm sure that my landlord and the grocery store will totally understand now. Thanks.
NelsonBakken January 11, 2016
Every picture of the universe is of the universe when it was younger.
Hinoldo December 29, 2015
> that would make us more human.
I mostly agreed up until this little piece of shit.
Queton December 28, 2015
Exactly. Without being stuck in a dead end job to earn their dinner, all those walmart greeters / shelf stockers can decide if that's what they want to do or if they want to do something they consider more productive. Teenagers could pick up the slack in those jobs while the college age focus on college and internships and the mid 20's / 30's / 40's gain far more freedom to build companies of their own or get a good job, while the 50's / 60's / 70's decide whether they want to keep doing what they're doing or retire.
No pressure on anyone. If you want a home, a bed, food and the occasional bit of entertainment, you need not work. If you want to change the world, get working on it. If you want an xbox and the latest games, get a low level job, maybe working for the world changers. If you're not happy in your area, retrain.
Such a simple concept.
hobbyrobie186 December 24, 2015
Communism actually does kinda work but only if you get the consent of all involved. I actually went to a little "commune" recently and they get along nicely.
lamoureux89 December 24, 2015
The world doesn't need ditch diggers. We have come a long way from building railroads and dams with thousands of men and shovels. I can see a day where fast food is nearly completely automated as well. The notion we need 'ditch diggers' is disappearing. On top of that, we have reached a level where we can compensate those 'ditch diggers' much more for their drudgery.
Garan December 20, 2015
Thus, in the long run, being an investment that pays dividends into the economy!
Nicolhowle December 18, 2015
I think I would be. It's a lot easier to be productive and not want to escape from the reality of life when you know you can do something without the worry of how you're going to pay your bills and feed yourself.
Phois December 10, 2015
Wouldn't you only really be missing income tax? These people would still be buying things which could be taxed. However in this hypothetical situation It would make sense that the 1% get the majority of their wealth taken away.
czakNorris1 December 8, 2015
A person's credentials, experience, and accomplishments do not justify every thought they've ever conceived.
The quoted text is silly. It's counter-intuitive, and very poorly argued. His supporting arguments are made-up "facts". He does nothing to address even the obvious issues with his idealistic utopian society.
We have drudges because there is a demand for drudges. Invent something that fixes the drudgery in one area, and drudges will be required in yet another to further our progress.
His idea is great. As an idea. It's idealistic. In essence, I believe he is saying that the world would be a better place if we all pursued the things we were passionate about instead of allowing ourselves to be shoehorned into whatever need society has. The reality of the situation is that many people do not have passion, and, at some point, they're going to have to provide value to other people so that value may be returned to them. Or become entirely self-sufficient. In which case, they'll need to find some land that someone is willing to part with for free.
In short, Utopia is fun to dream about.
DonnieHeinlein December 7, 2015
I think the quote is being mis interpreted by many, he is refering to societys ability to free up some great minds from the drudgery of everyday work so they can flourish and develop their education, then go on to improve humanities lot, i dont actualy think he is proposing a society of ignorant lazy freeloaders getting along of the backs of the workers,however, the guy being an academic has worded it naievly.He has also failed to take into account the fact that most people need work to ocupy them and feel validated,and without it, they fall into cycles of depression.
Zapes December 4, 2015
I've never seen 100s, but I have seen many men running these ditch digging machines that people seem intent on implying run themselves.
I also know several janitors. Fast food workers. Valets. Bellhops. Desk clerks. Data entry people. Telemarketers.
When was the last time you saw a hotel room clean itself?
When was the last time you saw a ditch dug by machinery alone?
When was the last time you saw a hamburger vending machine on the side of the road?
These things could exist. And they would still need someone to design them, build them, sell them, install them, clean them, maintain them, etc.
Machinery doesn't replace jobs, it displaces them.
Mcglade666 December 3, 2015
Saw an exhibit of his at the Ruben Museum in NYC. As such I can confirm this guy was a nut job and it's unclear whether he contributed anything to science other than some funky designs that hipsters enjoy.
LeotaBerkeley November 22, 2015
Yes, but only on a small scale. You can't have an effective system where people share and collaborate on a wide scale. It just doesn't work. We are similar in some ways but very different in others. Look at the US. We're all American's and have lots of similarities but look at how different people are from the Northeast versus the Southwest or East coast versus West coast. There are differences in thought, what is and isn't appropriate, how we talk (not just accents, either, East coast people talk faster than West coast people), heck, we can't even agree on what's the best method of BBQing a rack of ribs. It's the Carolina Style by the way, if you were curious.
People fail to realize that when you start to scale some of these ideas and hopes up to a larger size, they fail under their own weight. Kinda like how you can't have a gigantic ant, it's outer shell would crush it's mushy internal bits.
And here's a fact. In some way you and I are selfish. It was long ago established that no one can truly be altruistic. Even if you help people every single day you get something out of it (i.e a good feeling about yourself). Now while on an individual level our minor small selfish behaviors do not seem to have an effect but when you have millions of people doing the same thing, the behavior compounds itself. It's like wasting electricity. We are all guilty of it in some way. No one is being malicious but it adds up.
So while you accuse society of being selfish, you aren't looking at it correctly, because you are just as guilty of the same things you dislike as well. It's just that it's so small it's hard to see.
Undihin November 10, 2015
In the former Soviet Union, it was common practice to cut down on unemployment by employing 'guards' to simply stand at doorways of various buildings… no arms, no nothing.
This still occurs today
Lordnys November 6, 2015
Most of this thread was making me mad until I got to your comment. So, thanks.
I get that people work too much, to the point of sometimes wearing themselves out. But fuck this guy for implying that an individual EARNING for themselves is the problem.
christianson44 November 2, 2015
Exactly. I think many people would want to work. I know I would and do. I can't speak for everyone, but no matter what job I had, whether it be carrying a gun and walking around in blistering hot/cold weather, cleaning pubes off the floor at a truck-stop gas station, answering calls from people who believe a wireless router needs *literally* no cords, or watching a screen for information that will go into a daily report; I loved doing them all. Sure, I hated some of the jobs, but I *love* working.
I have only my POV to back it up, but I'm sure there are more like myself who would still fight for jobs. It sure would be nice to fight for a job to make my life better*… instead of fighting for one simply so I can eat every night. My wife would be the other side of the spectrum, but given the ridicule she receives from others, I can't help but feel she's a part of the minority.
*better only meaning that I can have more 'things'. Whether that makes for a 'better' life is up for debate, I'm sure.
ornbakerset2 November 2, 2015
Sorry, but as a person who has transitioned multiple startups into purchase targets, there is no end to the number of superfluous executive positions created to benefit those that are connected and in the know.
Nyest October 31, 2015
While I think this is a quite a lofty goal. I would love to see a plan in order to migrate to such a society.
Yuania October 30, 2015
This is basically the main theme of Vonnegut's *God Bless you, Mr. Rosewater*
deardorff3 October 25, 2015
Regardless of how many people stop working, it's going to be more expensive than any other government program that's ever existed in the history of mankind.
Ultimately, if we want to have UBI 2013 is not the time, nor 2014 or 2015. Ideally, we'd need to live in a much wealthier society in order to provide that initial push to keep the entire ball rolling.
Plus, we have no idea how people would react. How many would become lazy, or unproductive, or unmotivated? As many problems as there is with having to do things inorder to survive, survival is the best incentive that exists. If we were to take away this we have no idea how anyone would react. Best to let some country like Sweden or a European country test this out, and if they don't collapse or show signs of this only being short term then it could be feasible.
Odynu October 24, 2015
And once you hit 20 or so, you can realize it's crap without even pulling out the calculator.
CristineLacomb October 19, 2015
I think this is the real problem with this idea. When people don't HAVE to work to sustain themselves, they get lazy and stop being productive in any way. Some people will obviously not do that, but I believe the majority of people would.
Fitinack October 18, 2015
Where the hell did the Darwin bit come from? I always thought you earned a living because you had no right to expect anyone but yourself to provide a living for you. I paid for my education by working till I was trained enough to justify others wanting to pay me for it.
EviaBruss October 15, 2015
They will once its cheaper, its just not there yet, especially since the actual cost of a bugger flipper to a company keep going down every year.
swedberg October 13, 2015
While this quote is true in a lot of ways, it also leads to a lot of problems.
If we accept that not everyone needs to earn a living, then how do we select who needs to work and who gets not to? Won't those who don't have to work feel useless and sad after a while? And what if we produce more and grow more if more people are working; wouldn't we be stunting our growth?
EloyVanostrand October 8, 2015
There is a proposal to the EU to give every citizen a "unconditional basic income" high enough to cover housing, food, school and health. That would be one way to keep economic growth in a job less society. I think there was a test in a canadian town where they gave everybody a basic income just for being an inhabitant.
I could look it up for you if you want.


text:
Out of Line
by Michael Hofferber. Copyright © 1998. All rights reserved.
In the town where I live, there's just one streetlight with one color: red. It flashes the same in all directions at a four-way stop where one state highway crosses another.
The traffic bottles up when a freight train passes through, blocking the north-south lanes. I've seen cars backed up five, maybe six deep...
Queued up in one of these small-town traffic jams the other day, I started to reflect on the lines I've waited through and the ones I missed. I used to work in midtown Manhattan, you see, once of the most densely populated places on earth.
Checkout lanes at supermarkets were almost always seven or eight deep and the rows of people waiting for taxis after concerts or ballgames were exasperating.
Looking back on all the lining up at toll booths, pharmacies ("take a number, please, and wait your turn"), schools, and even fast food drive-up order windows, I wonder how we ever got anything done. Just think of all the productivity lost in lines.
At the post office, my packages are waiting at the counter if they see me coming and even letters that are misaddressed find their way into my box.
These days, the only time I spend on line is on the Internet. The shops around here never ask you to queue up for service and whatever can't be purchased locally can be delivered to my door by some parcel service. I eat at restaurants where I'm greeted by name and go to movies at a theater where rapid seating is virtually assured.
Rural Delivery
Commentaries and advice
on rural living
by Michael Hofferber


text:
IGNEA — Şeytanu Akbar (Official Video)
Oriental Metal Band IGNEA Announces first dates for "The Tour of Faith"
IGNEA will be supporting the release of their first full-length album "The Sign of Faith" with the following tour dates in Ukraine. The tour includes single shows as well as many Ukrainian metal festivals. This is the first leg of the tour with upcoming dates to be announced in Central Europe.
08.04.2017 — Kharkiv, Akuna Matata
23.04.2017 — Kyiv, Monteray
29.04.2017 — Ternopil, Koza
XX.05.2017 — Chernivtsi, TBA
14.07.2017 — Chornomorsk, Black Sea Metal Fest
16.07.2017 — Dubno, Taras Bulba Fest
05.08.2017 — Zhmerynka, Kalyna u Vogni
IGNEA state: "We are excited about the upcoming shows across our homeland and sharing stage with awesome bands. The response to the album has been great so far and we can't wait to perform it live."
"The Sign of Faith" LP consists of 10 diverse songs including symphonic elements, clean female vocals and brutal tracks.
Recently, the band premiered the video for "Şeytanu Akbar". Despite its provocative title IGNEA carrie the message of peace. Evgeny Zhytnyuk, composer and author of lyrics states: "What we want to say is that there is no reasonable cause to kill other people, be it regime, faith or moral principles. We mainly speak about islamic terrorism in this song, as one of the social plagues of 21st century, taking lots of innocent lives. However, this applies to every human on Earth, regardless of their religion."
Links to the album:
Links to IGNEA
Website: http://ignea.band/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ignea.band/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/igneaband