text:
|View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi Total Series Rating
|Perfect 10
|9 out of 10 : Excellent
|8 out of 10 : Very Good
|7 out of 10 : Good
|6 out of 10 : Average
|5 out of 10 : Below Average
|4 out of 10 : Poor
|3 out of 10 : Bad
|2 out of 10 : Very Bad
|1 out of 10 : Painful
|Voters: 860. You may not vote on this poll
|Thread Tools
|2006-07-22, 17:54
|Link #61
One PUNCH!
Join Date: Dec 2005
|2006-07-22, 18:41
|Link #62
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
I'm not anti-popular at all. In fact my anti artsy fartsy mentality is very much in favor of mainstream hits. Which is why I can't appreciate 3 min steaks of watching ppl read books for their artistic value vs their mainstream (or lack thereof) appeal. Let's face it, a lot of ppl didn't like ep1. Heater ep had its moments, mainly toward the end, but overall it too was lacking. If BT activity is dropping for this series, then--as I brought up in this or another nearby thread--apparently this series will not in fact stand the test of time very well.
SR's quite popular and I liked it. I thought the popularity was well founded. This, however, is more popular--sort of the it show that has drawn a large bandwagon. And I think ppl too willingly jump/hang on to that bandwagon. I guess once one immerses and devotes oneself to something so wholly, it's hard retaining objectivity, much less turning back.
LH was popular; SR is popular. They're some of my favs. While I'm not anti-mainstream, I am pro-free thinking. Making judgments on one's own, that is. So I'm not strict about my outlook on this series solely to oppose others. I just don't want to get caught up in a herd mentality, making me extra careful in this territory. It's very akin to stock markets and valuation/overvaluation. If BT is dropping, that to me would not appear to be a good sign. It makes me wonder if and when ppl will start to jump ship. Hell, it could be an academic study for some prof who studies anime.
Last edited by Shredder; 2006-07-22 at 18:55.
|2006-07-22, 18:47
|Link #63
One PUNCH!
Join Date: Dec 2005
However, in regards to your last sentence: isn't the opposite also true?
|2006-07-22, 18:53
|Link #64
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Too many points at which opposite could be applied, even within that one sentence. So I'm not able to infer which point. I'm no Yuki you know ).
Btw I don't indulge much in Western/American TV or cinema. It's why I've joined this place in the past few months. But it's still wildly successful. I may be contradicting myself at some points--it happens during intense talks. I like to think I'll admit to it if called on it.
I guess the only definitive answer as to which camp is right (overrated, under, just right) is that time will tell. I think it's too recent to make judgment calls. However, being only a recently converted fan of anime myself, I don't have historical perspective about what has happened in past situations like this. I do know that markets correct themselves eventually. It did not escape my notice (accurate, unless I'm mistaken) that KGNE for one seems to have cooled with the passing of time.
Last edited by Shredder; 2006-07-22 at 19:05.
|2006-07-22, 19:16
|Link #65
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
As for bt activity dropping, of course it did. It does with almost every series. 110k downloads of the first episode? That's almost in naruto/bleach territory. episode 14 still has 51k downloads, a huge number by any normal measure. I think many people downloaded it, then didn't get what they were expecting. Some probably thought episode one was what the show would be like, and were turned off, not realizing it was a "movie" made by the characters. More were probably turned off by the non-linear ordering. Besides, popularity isn't a good indicator of quality. People, in general, like straight foward, linear stories.
Also, if you didn't like the series that much, why'd you give it a 9?
|2006-07-22, 19:22
|Link #66
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
I'd say about 8.5 so I rounded in the generous direction. My opinion too could change with time, dunno. With each new series I gain new perspective and often changed perceptions of prior series. LH FTW always though. If Haruhi were ugly or plain and the ED dance were absent, my score may have dropped substantially. Kiss also raised it a lot. Blush could've done more if only it had happened.
|2006-07-22, 20:15
|Link #67
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
What SuzuHaru has, is not swarms of fans like OP/Naruto/Bleach but rather a smaller but very hardcore group of fans.
|2006-07-22, 20:46
|Link #68
Haruhiism Worshipper
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 34
Probably the main reason for the drop offs since the first episode is simply because the second wave came in expecting a simple comedy. What they got however something different in which many of those did not know how to react to. Mindyou internet ratings aren't exactly creditable to start out with. In my mind, there are three things that no one can deny that Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu provided - it was fresh, the ideas within the story was thoughtful and it was produced incredibly well.
A good show could warrant another watching, but a great show would be one in which upon re-watching, you find out something new. It's not simply to understand (I'm sure that everyone that has finished the series understood what happened) but to understand better. SuzuHaru is subtle in the way that on the first viewing, you will recieve enough superficial in formation to understand what is going on. But on the second viewing, the motives and personalities of the characters become much more apparent along with many other underlying themes.
No, anime is not a puzzle but maybe all shows should have some puzzle elements in it. It'd certaintly make for a much more enjoyable watch than "hot blooded hero goes berserk and destroys enemy the end". As for SuzuHaru being a fad, maybe, but it is definately deep enough to challenge the throne from EVA/Rahxephon (and at the rate most of the other shows are going, we'd still remember Haruhi 5-years later). The show has its flaws, but it couldn't make less of a dent on my enjoyment. It's an incredible gateway drug into the universe that the novels built and in a way has enriched my life as I am currently attempting to tackle the first four novels in Chinese after years of not reading anything Chinese.
There isn't a doubt in my mind, the winner of this season is Suzumiya Haruhi and I only wish to be able to give this series more than a 10/10.
|2006-07-22, 23:00
|Link #69
Dansa med oss
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 31
... I feel like saying something very Kyonish, but I shall refrain.
|2006-07-22, 23:46
|Link #70
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Shirobane, I definitely encourage you to read the chinese novels. They aren't really that difficult to understand if you have some chinese backgrounds, and they are pretty updated as well.
I will post my thoughts on the series later, already pretty late over here.
|2006-07-23, 00:03
|Link #71
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
I was responding to Shredder's comments that the declining bt downloads were somehow indicitave of how well the series will stand the test of time. I was merely pointing out that it's common for a series to decline in downloads as people decide it isn't for them, while offering speculations to reasons for it in this case, based on which episodes saw the biggest drops in downloads.
As for my almost naruto/bleach territory comment, I was using that to show the number of downloads were unsustainable for an anime targeted at otaku. Only mainstream series like Naruto and Bleach get that many downloads. Last time I checked, Bleach was getting about 100k downloads per episode, and Naruto about 170k, with some peaking above 200k. I'm not aware of any other series breaking the 100k barrier. Now that was a while ago, and I'm sure they've since gone up, but I don't care enough to check.
|2006-07-23, 00:24
|Link #72
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 61
*Rewatchability* is one of my key factors in determining the goodness of a series (just like a book is better if I can reread it periodically and continue to enjoy it or spot things I missed or reconnect with the story in a new light).
I've been suggesting to anyone I think would like this series that they start with episode two and come back to one later unless they've had some experience with "disorienting" film technique (suddenly "12 Monkeys" springs to mind or a couple of Hitchcock films). They also have to commit to watching the first five episodes before making any judgement.
In my case, about 10 minutes into ep 1, I could see we were getting foreshadow clues and that this was a really well-animated version of a "student made film". The narration was what really kept me intrigued with its dry sardonic comment.
Then at the end when it cuts to "real life" (normal KyoAni animation), its really an eyecatch event.
|2006-07-23, 01:03
|Link #73
Back Again From Haruhiism
from what i see from some of my friends, they quitted Naruto because of the same sequence and such going on and was bored of it. As for bleach we continued, its pretty interesting, but boring at times too.
now as i read through all the viewpoints, arguments and such just now, i found out something... only true anime lovers appreciate whats in all the anime. bad or not, there's always a flower blooming in them, so still they're beautiful.
in my standpoint, i still loved Susumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu. I even went mad as i did for Shuffle! and Shakugan No Shana, and was saving money for the novels and manga, japanese imports or not. Because i think SHnY is something worth it to buy, something worth myself to bring down to the next generation. i had my family prepare to watch it, but due to no burners, i have to ask friends to help me burn them out. sadly no Chinese subs from them.
and yeah... SHnY, in a way, is also like School Rumble. Not in the school life way but the way they do things. all the same i say.
hmmm well EP1 for SHnY is like someone said, bad? i dunno, i just liked it for the sensation, pretty interesting. everything that has a start is never nice, but wait till it blooms.
|2006-07-23, 01:20
|Link #74
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
You're right about unsustainability, it's just that you weren't anywhere nearly as clear in your previous post which would not have informed Shredder of SuzuHaru's unique status apart from the other anime. I think AMG actually sustained a fairly high number of downloads for quite some time; with many episodes from the first season roaming around 120k. However, it's now probably dropped to lower than 40k..
We have to be careful about generalizing the target audience factor to other anime in your notion of unsustainability, though. AMG S2 and more notably recently, School Rumble S2's BT downloads have dropped probably in part because of their inconsistent subbing schedule. People just drop it and leave because of that.. SuzuHaru had a really consistent subbing schedule so this couldn't have been the case. In any case, while it is likely that the viewership target of SuzuHaru played a part in its BT downloads dip, I think the fact that it was a steady decline in BT download figures that hints that there's abit more to the story.
It just really says that it's losing more and more of its audience as it runs (eventually stabilizing at 40,000+/-).. whereas you'd think that if it were just the otaku/mainstream factor, the dip would have been rather immediate and the stabilization occur more quickly than not.
|2006-07-23, 02:55
|Link #75
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
I don't remember how many downloads AMG got, and I can't seem to find any statistics for it either, nor for the second season. However, if one discounts the losses to irregular fansubbing for season 2, I'm sure it followed a similiar trend, "bleeding" fans as the series progressed. Apart from series like Naruto and Bleach, which gain more viewers than they lose due to mainstream appeal, most anime series seem to follow that pattern.
Of course, it's harder to tell with series released by multiple groups. For those it might just be a case of a lot of people downloading the same episode from each group to decide which to follow.
|2006-07-24, 11:34
|Link #77
Holy Beast ~Wuff!~
where on earth did you pull that from?
Gotta use that the next time someone question about my Anime hobby.
Nothing like throwing something random about flowers into argument to thrw them off.
|2006-07-24, 11:37
|Link #78
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tejas
Age: 43
That being said, SHnY is obviously good (it was done by KyoAni and was executed as well as their previous series have been), but that doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable. Personally I found the episode skippage part of it's quirky charm. But then I'm also in the minorest of minorities, I watched the whole thing and didn't particularly love it nor did I dislike it. I found it to be an enjoyable watch with some interesting subplots, but if my choice had been this and another season of FMP!TSR, I'd have taken FMP. Now if my choice is this or a remake of Kanon, I'd take another season of this any day of the week. I thought it started stronger than it ended, but it still ended very well it had a lot of nice touches and nods to it's own continuity. And, most importantly to the author, it made me interested in picking up the novels. Like Higurashi no naku koro ni though, I can't help but feel like there's a much better story contained in the original source material. I mean MUCH better, it has the feel of something that has been compressed a lot to fit in what KyoAni wanted to do.
|2006-07-24, 12:45
|Link #79
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 61
One doesn't have to trash it to feel better. On the other hand, a story full of plot holes or characters that behave so erratically that you think the producers are using a random line generator for dialog should be labeled for what it is -- junk.
Higurashi and SHnY are both attempts to do something unusual and creative using some what appears to be really excellent source material. So you have to give the "Peter Jackson award for a really entertaining try" medal to them both.
|2006-07-24, 15:05
|Link #80
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
We all know that it stabilized at about 40k towards the end, so the audience loss is obviously much more than what you've claimed.
|Thread Tools


text:
Another Wall Street CEO makes a blunder.
This time American International Group CEO Robert Benmosche, while assuring us that "too big to fail" has been resolved, said he doesn't get the national outrage about AIG's big bonuses, compares the public outrage to that of a lynch mob in the South.
The uproar over bonuses "was intended to stir public anger, to get everybody out there with their pitch forks and their hangman nooses, and all that-sort of like what we did in the Deep South [decades ago]. And I think it was just as bad and just as wrong."
The comments in the candid conversation with the colorful CEO was not part of the original story appearing in The Wall Street Journal on the weekend and appeared in a blog on Monday.
The CEO goes onto explaining that "less than 10" employees were behind the bad trades, on the campaign by government's against partial bonuses to be paid to hundreds of employees in the troubled AIG financial-products unit that was unwound following the crisis and the bailout. Benmosche took over the firm in 2009, after the government poured in $182 billion into AIG bringing it back from the brink of collapsing.
In justifying the bonuses, Benmosche says there are villains and there are villains:
"We're trying to find the villains [for the financial crisis]. There's got to be a villain somewhere. The problem is that there isn't a villain. There are villains. And they are everybody. They are the speculators in real estate. The people who flipped houses. People who lied and cheated [on mortgage applications]. Nobody did the income appraisals. … I include myself in there. I knew stuff was wrong" in the mortgage-underwriting system years before the real-estate bubble burst.
This isn't the first time Benmosche has compared criticism over bonuses with lynch mobs. In 2009, it was revealed more than 70 employees received bonuses of more than $1 million each, by then-New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo.
Benmosche at the time had these choice words about Cuomo:
"(He) doesn't deserve to be in government, and he surely shouldn't be the attorney general of the state of New York. What he did is criminal. You don't create lynch mobs to go out to people's homes and do the things he did."
Here is what the AIG CEO is saying today:
\"It was a poor choice of words. I never meant to offend anyone by it."
Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD), the ranking Democrat on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, released a statement in response to the \"lynching\" comment calling for Benmosche to resign.
The Congressman said:
"As the leading critic of AIG's lavish spending before and after its taxpayer funded bailout—and as the son of sharecroppers who actually experienced lynchings in their communities—I find it unbelievably appalling that Mr. Benmosche equates the violent repression of the African American people with congressional efforts to prevent the waste of taxpayer dollars. If these statements are true, I believe he has demonstrated a fundamental inability to lead this modern global company in a responsible manner—a company that exists today only because it was rescued by the American taxpayers—and that he should resign his position as CEO immediately."
Here's the Twitter reaction:
1/4: Shockingly ignorant comments from #AIG CEO: uproar over bonuses "was intended to stir public anger": http://t.co/6PvGcycAay
— Better Markets (@Bettermarkets) September 24, 2013
Bob Benmosche's biggest weakness is the same as my own. He doesn't know when to shut up. Great CEO, though. $AIG http://t.co/ziZpabUEAd
— Scott Hall (@ScottMONEYHall) September 24, 2013
The deplorable state of #America business leadership: RT @AntDeRosa $AIG CEO compares anger over bonuses to lynchings http://t.co/g9SmA7tyW8
— Texas Hedger (@TexasHedger) September 24, 2013
In a business largely led by unrepentent sociopaths, you have to admire the particular unabashed amoral decadence of Robert Benmosche. $AIG
— Rudolf E. Havenstein (@RudyHavenstein) September 24, 2013
Benmosche is great CEO. No denying that. Look at $AIG stock price since he joined. But what the heck was he thinking with lynching comments?
— Paul R. La Monica (@LaMonicaBuzz) September 24, 2013
— Sital S. Patel
— Follow The Tell on Twitter @thetellblog
— Follow Sital @Sital

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