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Legal Reasoning
Legal Reasoning
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Re: Legal Reasoning
Reply #20 on:
September 16, 2005, 03:12:22 AM »
An extreme case of obsessive behavior was processed throught the court system of a large American city. Frank Carroll met Dorothy Lewis at their mutual workplace in a neighboring state. For a time they socialized at work together -- eating lunch and so on -- until Lewis, who was involved in a romantic relationship with another man, tried to discontinue any association with Carroll, who had begun to display signs of becoming obsessed with her. Lewis then moved out of the state and enrolled in a graduate program in the city where her case would eventually be processed. She soon discovered that Carroll had followed her, and had in fact moved into the same apartment complex. At this point Carroll began to engage in a classic pattern of relentless stalking behavior: he left books on her doorstep, followed her to school, bicycled and drove past places where she worked, and tried to rent apartments near her workplaces. Lewis went to court and obtained a restraining order against Carroll, which he ignored. Finally, Carroll tunneled his way underneath the apartment complex and drilled a hole in Lewis' bathroom floor. When she dicovered the hole she fled the apartment in terror; an apartment complex employee then discovered the tunnel, with Carroll in it.
Carroll was convicted of two counts of harrassment, six counts of restraining order violations, and one count each of criminal trespass and attempted third-degree sexual assault. Amazingly, Carroll was not charged under the state's stalking statute. This statute requires that the stalking behavior pose "a credible risk" to the victim; apparently the prosecutor's office believed the fact Carroll had never made what the office considered a "verbal threat" to Lewis precluded Carroll from being charged with stalking. The judge gave Carroll the maximum possible sentence for the relatively minor set of offenses of which he was convicted: nearly six years in jail.
Sixteen months later, Carroll sought a sentence reduction. At the hearing, Carroll's lawyer told the same judge who originally sentenced his client that Carroll was "worth taking a chance on. Give him the benefit of doubt ... this obsessive behavior happened only once in 37 years." A psychologist then testified that he didn't believe Carroll presented a danger to Lewis or anyone else. "He's already understood the impact of his behavior and won't repeat his behavior," the psychologist testified. "He doesn't want contact with the victim." Another psychologist testified that Carroll wasn't safe in the county jail. Because of the nature of his crime Carroll had taken "a lot of abuse" there. After considering this testimony, the judge decided to place Davis on probation, on the condition that he leave the state, receive counseling, and live for a time under an officially monitored regimen.
First, it might be noted the absurdity of the claim that Carroll's behavior never posed a "credible risk" to Lewis. Here it can be seen certain atavistic features of legal reasoning at work, with this reasoning taking place in a context of remarkably primitive psychological interpretation (i.e., if a stalker doesn't actually strike or explicitly threaten his victim, the stalker isn't posing a risk to the victim). Second, notice how our culture's belief in the value of therapeutic intervention devalues the core ethical ideal that a wrongdoer should suffer not merely for his own good, or for the protection of others, but because he deserves to suffer (i.e., modern therapeutic ideology tells us that once a wrongdoer is "cured" there can be no valid reason for punishing him). Third, note the lawyer's highly dubious assertion that his behavior happened "only once in 37 years" (for obvious reasons, stalking is one of the most underreported crimes, it wasn't even recognized as a crime until recently, leading one to wonder how it would be possible to determine this behavior had not happened before.)
Most importantly, consider what in the context of this case the legal system treats as constituting "expert knowledge." The first psychologist's statement that Carroll no longer poses a threat to the victim or anyone else can be nothing more than a sheer guess. Even more questionable are the psychologist's claims that Carroll has understood the impact of his behavior and therefore won't repeat it, and that Carroll doesn't want any contact with the victim. How does the therapist know these things? Because Carroll told him so? The long-term prognosis of obsessive maniacs is extremely poor: in time, they almost invariably relapse into some type of obsessional behavior. Add to this the fact that Carroll seems to have suffered considerable indignities while imprisoned -- indignities that have likely produced deep feelings of victimization and fantasies of eventual revenge -- and it becomes very difficult to give any credence at all to this "expert" testimony. Nevetheless the law in all its solemn idiocy must rely on
; and thus, on the basis of such therapeutic entrail-reading, it lets the wrongdoer go free.
Again, this sort of case illustrates how in contemporary public life legal and therapeutic modes of decision making can come to resemble frankly superstitious practices, whose invocation gives us a spurious sense of control over what remain insoluble mysteries of human behavior. Beacuse in the context of a relentlessly rationalist culture the prospect of confronting the actual extent of our ignorance of the world terrifies us, we simply assume the rituals we perform to forestall that confrontation actually work.
Re: Legal Reasoning
Reply #21 on:
September 16, 2005, 03:43:14 AM »
Within the legal culture, the assumed efficacy of social practices such as criminal law and psychological counseling reflects this broader cultural faith in what is thought of as science. Indeed, the breakdown of the formalist conception of law as an autonomous discipline has given birth to the idea that, at least in "hard" cases, legal thinkers must extend the jurisdiction of law into the realm of what is thought of as "policy." Thus the modern law student is taught, either directly or by implication, that when the formal materials are indeterminate the outcome of a legal matter should be determined by the best policy; yet the student is also trained to believe that the content of this policy can and should be determined through the proper use of legal reasoning. Ideally, this instrumental use of reason is supposed to achieve a level of scientific rigor; hence the contemporary conception of law as a kind of "scientific policy making."
This gradual transformation of legal thought from a formal to a self-consciously instrumental practice has itself been enabled by the circumstance that, in the contemporary world, science has become the opium of the intellectuals. The reconceptualization of law as policy science is just one example of a more general trend. It is merely a prominent instance of how the cultural prestige of what is called the "scientific" -- that is, the materialist -- worldview has come to play a crucial role in producing a kind of rationalist addiction: an addiction to an intellectual narcotic that soothes the metaphysical anxieties of many a modern thinker. The weak magic of law draws what strength it has from the effects of a much stronger ideological intoxicant. And, if we are to fully understand our culture's abiding faith in its legal elixirs, we must turn our attention to this more powerful drug: the secular materialist rationalism.
Re: Legal Reasoning
Reply #22 on:
September 22, 2005, 11:42:19 PM »
Re: Legal Reasoning
Reply #23 on:
September 25, 2005, 07:03:55 PM »
Re: Legal Reasoning
Reply #24 on:
September 30, 2005, 12:24:30 PM »
Very interesting thread, tagging it.
here it is what they say
Reply #25 on:
October 01, 2005, 12:36:22 PM »
Lawyers, judges, and legal scholars have traditionally presumed that humans are rational beings, at least insofar as the law is concerned, and that judicial decision-making is a determinate process characterized by the application of precedent to existing facts in a deductive and logical manner. The presupposition of law's inherent rationality has led to the eclipse of another dimension of law -- the mysterious emotive forces lying beneath conscious awareness that often influence the life of the law without manifesting themselves explicitly. Is it possible that humans are primarily governed by irrational instinctual impulses, and that the law is a necessary external element that must regulate their behavior in order for civilization to persist?
Could it be that the law is inherently illogical, although it exists under the pretense of rationality? What of the proposition that judicial decision-making is the fulfillment of personal prejudices of judges rather than the product of "legal reasoning based on precedent"?
The idea that law serves the social purpose of regulating the resolution of disputes among members of society in a peaceful and orderly manner is rather obvious. One can imagine the chaos that would ensue in a state where citizens did not have access to an institutional mechanism for resolving their disputes with one another. The parties would have to resort to private vengeance; the stronger party would likely humiliate, extort, and/or physically harm the other. Soon society would revert back to the Hobbesian "state of nature," characterized by utter lawlessness, absence of justice or ethics, and such a war as is of every man against every man" wherein "the life of man is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
Perhaps less obvious is the psychological function served by choosing law as the social mechanism for adjudication. The adversarial legal process serves a very important psychological function insofar as it results in the sublimation of the aggressive instinct, thereby curbing the path for the expression of the litigants' hostility towards each other. Before commencing litigation, parties have often reached a point where no other means of resolution seem to exist. They are frustrated, enraged, and filled with "combat feelings" that seek some form of expression. The adversarial legal process allows litigants to express their aggression without resorting to physical violence. That clients ... try to use litigation as a channel for ... hostile and aggressive impulses ... is, of course, hardly surprising, since lawsuits are historically, and even presently, substitutes for private brawls, blood-feuds and the like. Furthermore, litigation allows the parties' lawyers to "fight" for their clientsassuming they empathize with their client's cause and in this way, the lawyers themselves release aggressive impulses, albeit in sublimated form.
In return for the apparent peaceful solution that the law brings to dispute resolution, there is a corresponding disadvantage bestowed upon citizens by the rule of law: namely, neurosis and unhappiness. From a psychoanalytic view, the renunciation of instincts (in the sense of suppressing innate sexual and aggressive urges) is a necessary prerequisite for joining civilization and upholding lawful society. This repression of instinctual urges increases the unpleasant experience of guilt when one fails to repress fully such unacceptable unconscious tendencies. The renunciation of instincts leads to some degree of neurosis, which in turn results in unhappiness for civilized humanity. Indeed, by becoming members of lawful society, citizens exchange a portion of their happinessformerly fulfilled through direct instinctual gratification for the degree of security brought about by the law.
However, this subordinated form of instinctual gratification is not adequate to the Id, whose impulses must be continuously repressed by the Ego in order to obey the internal and external rules of law. The Ego finds itself in a very difficult position, since it must mediate between the Id's demand for instinctual gratification, and the Super-Ego's opposing demand for the renunciation of morally questionable and unacceptable unconscious desires emanating from the Id. In order to protect itself, the Ego employs various defense mechanisms, and simultaneously uses the law as an external instrument for regulating irrational tendencies. The outcome of creating such a complex psycho-legal regulatory network is that judicial processes are inevitably influenced by irrational emotive factors. Indeed, one may speak of the "psychodynamic judicial process," where chaos is disguised as order, and irrationality disguised as reason.
Legal Reasoning
Reply #26 on:
October 01, 2005, 12:42:06 PM »
Trial provides various opportunities for all participants to express unconscious parent-oriented emotions that have been repressed since childhood. These emotions are repressed in childhood primarily due to the fact that they are extremely ambivalent, eliciting punishment from the Super-Ego. From a psychoanalytic view, the trial judge can be viewed as a symbolic father figure, who may arouse in the litigants parent-oriented feelings. If the judge is perceived as an unconscious symbolic father-substitute, the litigants may unconsciously displace their parent-oriented feelings onto him. This may take the form of an unconscious wish to physically harm the judge, manifesting itself in conscious hostility toward the judge, particularly if he is ruling against one's case. A trial judge who uses his discretion to limit a litigant's chances of winning the case may be perceived as a father who sought to limit the child's desire for having intimate relations with the mother, thereby evoking the child's Oedipal feelings of hatred.
In a sense, a child's parents are his first judges, constructing the family "tribunal" wherein the father's "law" adjudicates whether the child's actions are right or wrong, and mandates appropriate rewards and punishments. If someone had experienced frequent "injustice" in the parental tribunal, then it is not inconceivable that he would later view all courts and laws as instruments of oppression designed to perpetuate injustice. Such a litigant would tend to displace feelings of hostility originating from childhood onto the judge and the court. Likewise, someone who has experienced violent abuse during childhood may later perceive all instruments of the law the police, the judge, and the criminal law as extensions of the unjust father figure who will forever pursue him to inflict further harm. From this point of view, it is not surprising to observe an uncooperative attitude in criminal defendants toward the criminal justice system. These ideas may shed light on the proposition that an abusive family environment in childhood may be a significant cause of adult criminality.
Furthermore, trial provides an atmosphere where not only litigants but also their lawyers can displace family-oriented feelings onto the judge and opposing counsel. A lawyer who identifies with his client, or at least empathizes with his client's cause, will often perceive the other side's counsel as a threat. This rivalry is not simply limited to the purpose of winning the case, for it may have its origins beyond the immediate court action. The lawyer's rivalry may be motivated by subconscious tendencies that have been repressed in childhood, turning his case into a personal matter. Specifically, the opposition between each side's counsel may have its underlying origin in a childhood experience of sibling rivalry that significantly influenced the development of the lawyer's personality. In such a situation, the trial judge may be a symbolic parental figure for lawyers who subconsciously perceive each other as rival siblings reliving a childhood experience. The lawyers could project parental feelings onto the judge, and depending on which side he favored in the litigation, the projections could range from severe hostility to intense liking. Accordingly, sibling rivalry may be a valid explanation for why opposing counsel at times scream at each other and express hostility toward one another in the courtroom.
The judge may also subconsciously displace family-oriented emotions onto the trial participants. A trial judge who subconsciously perceives a litigant or lawyer as a symbolic daughter or son would likely displace parental emotions onto the symbolic child-figure. Depending on how the judge views his or her own child and what sort of emotions he or she feels toward the child, the litigant or lawyer who symbolically represents the judge's child would be subject to familial emotional reactions ranging from intense like to dislike from the judge. These ideas could explain a situation where a judge seems to favor one of the litigants over the other, even though the disfavored party has a better argument. Thus, none of the trial participants is immune to the everlasting recreation of the Oedipal triangle, and the resulting emotional reactions generated therefrom.
Re: Legal Reasoning
Reply #27 on:
October 01, 2005, 12:47:50 PM »
The legal profession has traditionally held dear the notion that judicial decision-making is a rational and objective process in which the judge applies precedent to existing facts. Indeed, the immense focus on "precedent" and "legal reasoning" within the legal profession has rendered these concepts irrefutable and unquestionable. One may even speak of the propaganda of the American legal culture, which holds all legal processes to be driven by logic, order, and reason. Why has this culture so seldom questioned the presupposition of rational decision-making which all of law seems to be based upon? Could there be another explanation for the process of judicial decision-making?
Lawyers and judges purport to make large use of precedents .... But since what was actually decided in the earlier cases is seldom revealed, it is impossible, in a real sense, to rely on these precedents. What the courts in fact do is to manipulate the language of former decisions. They could approximate a system of real precedents only if the judges, in rendering those former decisions, had reported with fidelity the precise steps by which they arrived at their decisions .... Of the many things which have been said of the mystery of the judicial process ... the most salient is that decision is reached after an emotive experience in which principles and logic play a secondary part.
Judges make their decisions primarily based upon emotional reactions to the facts presented to them in a case, and then use precedent to rationalize their decision. Law's indeterminacy and contingency lie in the fact that precedent can be interpreted in numerous ways, and that it is often used as justification for a position held by the judge long before he even considers precedent. Accordingly, from a psychoanalytic point of view, judicial decisions are often made based on the personal prejudices and emotional reactions of judges with respect to a set of facts, and the process of "legal reasoning" is merely a mechanism employed by the Ego to rationalize the Id's irrational prejudices. But why is there such a need for rationalization? Two possibilities present themselves. First, the legal profession and society as a whole idealize the law as the perfect father-figure, and in their search for stability, demand that the law be a coherent and logical set of rules derived from reason. In other words, the Ego seeks to use the law as a further means of bringing order to the chaotic and passionate world of the Id. Second, the legal profession engages in endless rationalization as a means for alleviating the threat of punishment imposed on the Ego for its failure to incorporate the commands of the Super-Ego's "inward court of law" in laws governing members of society. In other words, if the Ego were to acknowledge explicitly that judicial decision-making is primarily an Id-driven process, then it would be subject to severe punishment from the Super-Ego for allowing instinctual impulses to reach conscious awareness, and worst of all, be the basis for law.
If judicial opinion-writing is merely a linguistic practice of rationalizing pre-existing attitudes, then a judge engaged in such activity may plausibly be called a sophist (an intellectual jolly). Just as the sophist can make the worse cause appear the better through the use of oratorical skills, a judge engaged in sophistry can make the worse argument appear the better by arguing that it "more accurately conforms to precedent," and by presenting it as "the law." Opinion writing is not a mechanism by which decisions are generated, but the complex of rhetorical gestures to which one has recourse when a decision, already made, must be put into presentable form. This would lead one to say that judicial opinions codify the perpetuation of a tradition that disguises prejudice as "precedent," forever passing down arbitrary rules from one judicial generation to the next. In this light, the history of law may be viewed as the history of evolving subjective and socio-cultural prejudices that find verbal expression in legal opinions, "rules of law," and social reactions thereto formulated in new legislation.
If law is merely an arbitrary set of rules based on judicial prejudices and emotional reactions, presented under the guise of "legal reasoning based on precedent," where does that leave us? Should we acknowledge such a subversive discovery, at the expense of disturbing the normal functioning of the Ego and diminishing our sense of stability in the world? Should we simply disobey whatever law is contrary to our liking? Should we set sail in search for truth upon the tumultuous ocean of uncertainty? Or should we rather immure ourselves forever in self-deceit, so that we may live under the shadow of illusory images depicting "law," "order," and "justice"?
You decide for yourself, dear fellow reader.
Lust isn't one of the 7 Deadly Sins for nothing...
Re: Legal Reasoning
Reply #28 on:
October 01, 2005, 07:49:45 PM »
Could you at least credit the work you're so shamelessly paigiarizing?
Yom Kippur
Re: Legal Reasoning
Reply #29 on:
October 06, 2005, 07:28:30 PM »
This time seen from a slightly different perspective, F7! Very interesting!
Law School Discussion
Law Students
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Legal Reasoning


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McLean's Force Green '96 Wins Virginia State Cup Championship
RICHMOND, VA (Nov. 4, 2012) – McLean Premier Soccer's (MPS) Force Green '96 dominated PWSI Courage Red '96 in a 3-0 shut-out to win the U16 Girls Fall 2012 Virginia State Cup Championship today.
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MPS Force Green '96 State Cup Roster (listed by primary position):
FORWARDS: Mia Hoen-Beck (#96), Ta-Tiana Brodie (#27), Madeline Dalzell (#1), Hailey Williams (#10), Sara Wilson (#24)
MIDFIELDERS: Alexis Chavez (#21), Meg DeGrafft (#16), Kaitlyn Forsht (#97), Mary "Jenna" Hamilton (#15), Ricki Libby (#11), Ashley Taylor (#20), Sidney Tison (#13)
DEFENDERS: Alia Abu Hawa (#26), Shaefer Cabaniss (#33), Karina Castillo (#12), Gracie DeGooyer (#7), Fionn Fortune (#44), Caitlyn Herron (#99), Caitlin Keenan (#9), Hannah Natanson (#65), Elena Williams (#14), Katie Taylor (#19)
GOALKEEPER: Katelyn "K.J." Jensen (#17)
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subset: commoncrawl


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The term "surface", when used to refer to the entity upon which the Evolver operates, refers to all the geometric elements plus auxiliary data such as constraints, boundaries, and forces.
There are no limitations on how many edges may share a vertex nor on how many facets may share an edge. Thus arbitrary topologies are possible, including the triple junctions of surfaces characteristic of soap films.
Edges and facets are oriented for bookkeeping purposes, but there are no restrictions on the orientation of neighboring facets. Unoriented surfaces are thus possible.
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.fe extension I always use for datafiles stands for
facet-edge, which refers to the internal data structure
used to represent the surface. You may use any name
you wish for a datafile.)
The basic operation of the Evolver is to read in a datafile and take commands from the user. The main command prompt is
Enter command:The most common commands are one letter (case is significant for these), sometimes with a numerical parameter. The most frequently used commands are:
g n do n iterations ('g' is for 'go') r refine the triangulation of surface P graphics output (option 8 for geomview, option 3 for PostScript) s show surface on screen (Evolver's own simple graphics) q quitThere is also a more elaborate command language (in which case is not significant). Commands must be followed with the ENTER key; Evolver only reads complete lines.
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Badaga Community
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Frequent poster
Joined: 01 Aug 2001
Posts: 198
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:00 pm
Badaga folk songs have always been very melodious and beautiful !
Especially, during 'Gasu Hakkuva' , 'Kai Bettuva' seasons... all the Badaga 'hatti hemakka' standing in one row, with rhythmic swinging of 'guddalis', would sing in one voice many wonderfully nice songs.
I wonder whether they still do in those very few hattis where they grow 'gasu' in their 'holas'.
During my early days ...I am talking about fifty years back.... the following song used to be very popular. Anyone knows the full version ?
O , Sinikki...O , Ponikki
Hakkilu kappa koosa,
Halla ethindu hora,
Aowae Kathiga hegille,
Kanna neera hakkiya,
Appa Karaga hegille,
Mande mara sachina,
O..Sinniki.. O.. ponniki
Wing Commander Bellie Jayaprakash
Last edited by bjaypee on Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:09 am; edited 3 times in total
Occasional poster
Joined: 08 Jun 2001
Posts: 44
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:17 pm
Thanks for updation, i have seen this in North, North-East India and always wonder did our people also do/did like this. I guess there are very few people of yours age as registered member in this site and remember the Full versions. The collection of Folk Songs in this site would be wonderful idea.
Frequent poster
Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 279
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:00 am
Hi Mr.Bellie,
I can feel your pulse longing for those bygone days!
The old folk songs have long been replaced with the latest tamil songs. In today's "Holas" and "Thottas", discussions hover around "Metti Oli", "Manaivi" (Two of the most popular soaps with high TRP ratings) and at best "Jaravadhu" - a pun (I mean poking fun / speaking ill of neighbours for no obvious reasons).
Incidentally, If Iam not wrong, O...Chinnaama is a folk song sung inorder to lyrically bring the crying child to sleep. I dont think there is an extension to the seven lines you have mentioned.
This song is very effective with your back is against the wall, the kid on your shoulders and you hit the walls in a synchronising motion with the raga from deep heart, a kind of transient sedation which cannot be explained by mere words. This heritage which I have probably enjoyed, I extend it to my son today. Global thoughts; Local actions!
Emerald Bhojan Hariharan.
Frequent poster
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 340
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:50 am
The last three lines of that folk song..
...if i remember correct......
double double thotta
aarinji morana notta
raniya kootindu hotta
Occasional poster
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 93
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:18 am
adhuthaney nodidhey! old folk song thava rammaya elli reply madulendhu wait madinidhey! i've heard these lines in the middle of a song in the album, 'NETTHIYA BAREY'.lovely tune too..!
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Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 340
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 3:17 am
geeth hethey enga kunna kunnavey; iyya maadibhuttey eakka???
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Joined: 01 Aug 2001
Posts: 198
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:22 am
Nice to know that many friends are showing interest and getting involved.
E B Hari's description of 'Koosa origichodhu' is very nice. Sure, Global thoughts and local actions.
Here is another song which was very famous during 'Habbas' (kuduthu Aadodhoga) before 'Mele Keri' delivered a knockout punch. Once again I remember only a few lines.
Baby Powder-a baekkendaga
Bellana hennu en-Janagi
Akka akka, Huttida Aowei
Ondu jolia hegine baali
Silk - ku jacket-a baekkendaga
singara ulla en-Janagi
Akka akka , Huttida Aowei
Ondu jolia hegine baali
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Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 340
Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 2:55 am
Two decades ago, a typical hethey was singing ..
mammanennu gangi Nee
moorundeyaa nungi
Naayembhadhu nangi
olagogivikka mangi
Madathareya ooru adhu
Maayaakalluna theru
Adhubagu joru
Naabhannaney thaaru
Hattigabhandhara rali
Obbigoppo saeli..
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 7
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:42 pm
Hey frens,
New comer to IBA, folk songs is really an interestin topic, all i remember is my dad singin "Akkilu kaapa kusa" to lull my bro, he wont sleep without listenin to that... that sweet rythm still lingers in my ears.
For my part I no a little "Folk kinda song" u can all it whatever which my cousin in village used to sing for me it goes like this,
Onthu enthalae odayaratti bassu (bus) bantha
Eradu enthalae ebbanadu bassu bantha
Moori enthalae muttinadu bassu bantha
Naku enthalae nanjanadu bassu bantha... goes on n on that was so much of fun. pls frens share more folk songs if u no any...
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Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 194
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:02 am
"Sikkavara Jenane
Siggu Maada bedane
SIlkuna padane
Cinemaga Oppane"
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Joined: 31 Dec 1999
Posts: 279
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:54 am
Satthundoppaney Burumaleythaa...
Adadhey endhu Aadabheda...
Illadhoppaney Burumaleythaa...
Moral: Don't act too smart b'cos u r better off...be down to earth. Nobody can predict the future.
Emerald Bhojan Hariharan.
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Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 340
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:52 am
Anu, a little correction..or a modified form
Ondhu ondhu earadu thaaney Naa
Ebbanaadu bassu goney
Earadu ondhu mooru thaaney Naa
Mulligooru bassu goney
Mooru ondhu naakku thaaney Naa
Nanja naadu bassu goney
Naakku ondhu aidhu thaaney Naa
Athikadavu bassu goney
Aidhu ondhu aaru thaaney Naa
Appukodu bassu goney
Aaru ondhu izhu thaaney - Naa
Ithalaaru bassu goney
Izhu ondhu ettu thaaney Naa
Emaraldu bassu goney
Ettu ondhu ombhathu thaaney Illi
Ondhu bassu kaaney thavaney ..
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Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 340
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:06 am
Eana bhevara maaduvo
Ethey maathuvo..????
Kaala kettothu baala menu
Hutti yothu
Bambu bhandhothu
Badugaana gathu getta
Eana bevara maaduvo
Ethey maathuvo..???
Pittana hotti bhappa
Peelu kolai saraai ikki
Pitti oori kuladhaley
Mutti getta murikkira
Eana bhevara maaduvo
Ethey maathuvo..???
Sweeeeeet old and golden memories
Frequent poster
Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 293
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:11 pm
Hi Guys!
Something I remember.....
ore dharee ole oru thale ragane
nadu dharee ole vazve mayane...
thare dharee bappane nee enna korusuvane
appa kara ibbane naa ena maduvane...
selma theataru kadaisi seettune
nanga irada oopane siggu aaga bedane.......
Please continue this may be we can bring out a long one.....
Frequent poster
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 340
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:11 am
hmmm..nandhu, still u r remembering those days...
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Yes, the stir fry is the ultimate pre-vacation meal. You can clean out the fridge and use up any meats and vegetables. For this stir fry, had a bunch of sweet peppers and carrots, as well as a pack of chicken sitting in the fridge. With a business trip coming up on Thursday, I decided to use up the stuff in the house, rather than buy groceries this week. Also, since I tend to make a lot of stir frys, I had all the ingredients for my sauce already. My pantry is a well-stocked stir fry zone!
What is your go to "Use it up" recipe? With so many business and personal trips this year, I find that I've been tossing way more food than I would like. Resorting to eating out each night is not the best plan either, for the wallet or the waistline!
Two Years Ago: Milky Way Cake
Three Years Ago: Peanut Chicken with Asian Slaw
Four Years Ago: Banana Coconut Muffins
Five Years Ago: Indian Chicken Curry


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Osaka, Japan
Event Description
International Conference on Technical Advancements in Smart Materials and Nanomaterials (ICTASMN -2018) will be organized by Conferencefora on 21st - 22nd October 2018 at Osaka, Japan.
Conferencefora provides platform to the researchers, scientists and analysts to join together and discuss their topics of interest by organizing conferences worldwide for a better and healthier world.
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Call For Paper
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text:
Hinduism would be Linux. If religion was the Web, Hinduism would be Web 2.0.
Richard Stallman would be pleased. You can debate what is Mac and Windows till the cows come home but that really is not the point of this post. Bear with me for this post, as I attempt to step into slightly uncharted waters. On Religion. On the religion we know as Hinduism. And my attempt to make a small comparison of the religion with open source and Web 2.0.
The last few years, for a variety of reasons, I have found myself at temples, ashrams and other pilgrimage centers all over India all the way from Puri to Tirukadavur and historical temple sites like Hampi. And if I count my family, we have been to quite a few temples around the world including the Kailas Mansarovar Yatra. Each one of it has been an amazing experience. Sabarimalai and some of the temples on its route perhaps among the most striking as far as experiences go. I have visited at various points of time in my life ISKCON, Raghavendra Swamis Ashram, Ramanasram, Sri Ravishankar ashram - which between them represent ashrams and groups old and new. By no means exhaustive, each of these groups have something common across them, yet may not have anything common across them.
And through these visits to temples, ashrams and related places - each slightly diverse, yet encompassing all others - I marvel at this religion. Hinduism seems to embody - notwithstanding new found guardians of the faith - open source to its truest extent. It encompasses just about all open source, web 2.0 principles. User level participation, creation of communities - look no further.
Pick an avatar for god - any one. You need not choose humans, past or present, though thats your choice. You could pick a lake, a mountain, a spring, a tree, a sand bridge, a river, an animal or a combination. How that for variety? Spore?
Write an epic. Come up with a zillion versions of it. No copyrights, no copylefts either. No paper? Pass down traditions orally. Create your own epic. Build history. Mathura or Madurai. Ayodhya or Ayutthaya. Create your user experience by building a website, I mean temple or city. Fan created content? If those temples were not created by fans of their gods, who did it?
Friday, June 27, 2008
If religion was software
Hinduism would be Linux. If religion was the Web, Hinduism would be Web 2.0.
6 comments:
- ashish said...
Your observation couldn't be more accurate. It is something I'm proud of as a Hindu. However, in moments of contemplation I have tried to find reasons for some of the ills that plague our people or society (whatever is more politically incorrect). I've often wondered if human beings need a uniting force, a battle cry to move them forward. We all know very well the problems that arise out of fanatical approach to religion. However, there might be a middle ground. Going back to your analogy, who owns open source (and isn't that often cited as a problem), who will support open source when the chips are down?
Have you given this a thought? Ask 10 Hindus this question-"which is the seat of highest power for Hindus or who is the flag bearer of the Hindu message". I don't think you will get a uniform answer from all people. Problem? Don't know.
However, it is important to know that every other major religion has a clear and only ONE answer to both those questions. Could this be the reason why it is more difficult to harness the energies of all of us in one direction, we have a fractured political system, a fractured sports system, a South Indian who calls a North Indian names and West Indian who calls an East Indian names? Have you ever heard this from your friends (especially those living overseas)-"Indians don't help other Indians". Could this be bacause of open source religion. It's an extended logic but I believe religion (before corporations took over) has been the biggest uniting force for human beings and we as Hindus don't find common ground across the board.
Ashish Abrol
- 12:14 AM, June 28, 2008
- JK said...
More on the same lines from Sankrant Sanu's review of Invading the Sacred.
Finally, the internet can truly be regarded as a Hindu medium. This is only half in jest—the Indian traditions share many similarities with the internet. Whereas the large publishing houses represent centralized control the internet decentralizes power. There is no church. The Indian traditions have always allowed for this marketplace of ideas with no threat of heresy. There is no central authority to stamp ideas with official sanction or suppress others with the pain of death and torment. New teachers and teachings could thus always arise, and thrive, without persecution, mixing and commingling with the old. Invading the Sacred is in anthology of articles and voices of many individuals with their own points of view and style—who were not commissioned by any one organization or told to write what they did. Nor does the "defense" of Hinduism require a counter-church or centralized organization. The ideas, one seeded, were followed through by different individuals, on their own time and self-leadership just as TCP/IP packets get routed in different ways from origin to destination.
- 1:47 AM, June 28, 2008
You are echoing ( albeit, in a different fashion ) what's written here: http://tinyurl.com/59wgq4
Quoting from the above:
Three religions now stand in the world which have come down to us from time prehistoric — Hinduism, Zoroastrianism and Judaism. They have all received tremendous shocks and all of them prove by their survival their internal strength. But while Judaism failed to absorb Christianity and was driven out of its place of birth by its all-conquering daughter, and a handful of Parsees is all that remains to tell the tale of their grand religion, sect after sect arose in India and seemed to shake the religion of the Vedas to its very foundations, but like the waters of the seashore in a tremendous earthquake it receded only for a while, only to return in an all-absorbing flood, a thousand times more vigorous, and when the tumult of the rush was over, these sects were all sucked in, absorbed, and assimilated into the immense body of the mother faith.
From the high spiritual flights of the Vedanta philosophy, of which the latest discoveries of science seem like echoes, to the low ideas of idolatry with its multifarious mythology, the agnosticism of the Buddhists, and the atheism of the Jains, each and all have a place in the Hindu's religion.
Where then, the question arises, where is the common centre to which all these widely diverging radii converge? Where is the common basis upon which all these seemingly hopeless contradictions rest? And this is the question I shall attempt to answer.
- 7:05 PM, June 28, 2008
- Kavi said...
Thats Hinduism in essence. But can you imagine a Bill Gates saying open source should follow certain basics amenable to MS ?
He'll fall flat! At some places though, it does flourish !
- 12:13 AM, June 30, 2008
- Charles Frith said...
This is an amazing post. I've thought long and hard about India and its place in the world and despite reading The Age of Kali I believe India represents a more natural state of human affairs than elsewhere in the world.
I think it's time for India to declare that its different and that it doesn't necessarily see swift adoption of empirical metrics as any more valid than its own way. India should embrace its compelixity because frankly the rest of the world prefers to sweep theirs under the carpet.
You wrote this post on my birthday and I"m thieving it as a serendipitous digital birthday present :)
- 12:08 PM, July 06, 2008
- Neelakantan said...
Thanks Ashish, JK, Arpit, Kavi and Charles. Glad that this post was appreciated. Will try to make this into a larger piece sometime...
- 1:48 PM, July 07, 2008


text:
HERE is currently seeking an Assistant General Manager. Click the link for more information and to apply.
HERE is an Equal Opportunity Employer and has a strong commitment to equity, diversity, and inclusion (EDI) in our hiring process, as well as in all areas of our work. We believe that diverse ideas, cultures, and traditions reflect the broad diversity of the U.S. and are vital assets which enrich the programs and services we provide to the field. We respect intersectionality of identities and are committed to EDI in all areas of our work and workplace. People of color, LGBTQ+, and women candidates are strongly encouraged to apply.
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Please send a résumé and letter of interest to firstname.lastname@example.com or to the attention of the Intern Coordinator, HERE 145 Sixth Ave, New York, NY 10013. You must specify an area of interest.
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Rolling: Please apply 3 months–6 weeks prior to your desired start date.
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Dramaturgy Department Intern will assist the Resident Dramaturg producing post-show discussion panels for the HERE season and the PROTOTYPE: Opera/Theatre/Now festival. Intern will also assist with written descriptions of past performances for the HERE Archive Project, HERE's current presented performances, and with written feedback to resident Artists' Works in Progress, and presentations at the CULTUREMART Festival. Intern can attend staff meetings and is expected to regularly watch performances at HERE. In January and February, performance and panel attendance/support is expected multiple evenings a week. Applicants should have a background in theater practice and studies, and a desire to work with unconventional, multi-disciplinary performance material. Prior experience with Microsoft office suite is highly desirable. Along with Resume and cover letter, please also submit a writing sample. 4-8 hours per a week, a minimum of a six month commitment.
Programming Intern works closely with the Artistic Director. An ideal candidate is an emerging director interested in becoming an Artistic Director in the future. The intern is involved in all aspects of the Artistic Director's working process:
• initial review of artist applications for our HERE Artist Residency Program (HARP), HEREArt exhibitions, and Sublet Series
• review and writing up analysis of work samples - video, scripts, live performances
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Joseph T. McLaughlin Award for Public Debate
fulton debating society
The accomplishments of Joseph T. McLaughlin '65 as a Boston College debater are unrivaled. He and his debate partner, James Unger, achieved remarkable success at the National Debate Tournament (NDT), which remains the gold standard for measuring debate success. In 1963, the BC duo reached the semi-finals of the NDT, where they lost a 4-1 decision to the University of Minnesota. McLaughlin and Unger improved upon their performance at the 1964 NDT where they lost the final round to the University of the Pacific on a close 4-3 decision. These two performances at the NDT were not surprising: McLaughlin and Unger were one of the dominant teams both years, winning elite national tournaments such as the Henry Clay Debates at the University of Kentucky in 1963.
After graduating from Boston College with honors, McLaughlin attended Cornell Law School, and then clerked for Chief Justice Joseph Tauro of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court. For the next forty years, McLaughlin enjoyed a fabulously successful career as a litigator. A former partner at Shearman & Sterling, McLaughlin served as counsel at Bingham McCutchen, he taught international arbitration at Fordham University School of Law, and he served as a professional arbitrator and mediator with JAMS. McLaughlin passed away in January 2012.
In honors of his long and distinguished career, the Fulton Debating Society inaugurated the Joseph T. McLaughlin Award for Public Debate in 2010. The Award is presented to the Fultonian who has demonstrated a commitment to the Society's public debate series and has mastered the art of arguing before large audiences.
Past winners of the Joseph T. McLaughlin Award for Public Debate include:
2017 Sean MacDonald 2016 Fisher Pressman
2015 Sean MacDonald 2014 Michael Maerowitz Alexander Tingle 2013 Patrick Allen 2012 Gabe Stacy 2011 Grant Gendron 2010 Ryan Malone


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George Traver, 88, LaFontaine, passed away at 10:30 p.m. Tuesday, May 13, at Wabash County Hospital in Wabash. He was born to the late William and Sylvia (Shannon) Traver on March 22, 1926 in Kokomo.
George married Inabelle O'Connell on July 3, 1947. They have been married for 66 years; she survives in LaFontaine. George was a toolmaker at Fisher Body in Marion for 35 years. George was a member of United Methodist Church in LaFontaine. He was also a member of Knights of Rifleman, National Rifle Association of America and Wabash Gun Club. One of George's favorite things in his life was going fishing, especially with his grandchildren Ryan and Alley.
He is also survived by two sons, John (Theresa) Traver, LaFayette, and Jeff Traver of Wabash; a daughter, Mrs. Larry (Janet) Dailey, LaFontaine; eight grandchildren, Keith Dailey, Chad Dailey, Angie Underwood, Allison Irvin, Ryan Traver, Jorden Traver, Chelsea Traver, and Alley Traver. He was preceded in death by three brothers and two sisters.
Funeral services will be held at 10 a.m. on Saturday, May 17, at McDonald Funeral Home, LaFontaine Chapel 104 S. Main Street, LaFontaine. Burial will follow in the LaFontaine IOOF Cemetery.
Visitation for family and friends will be from 4-8 p.m. on Friday, May 16 at the funeral home.
Preferred memorials are directed to Special Olympics of Wabash County.
Online condolences may be sent to the family at www.mcdonaldfunerals.com.