text:
High-Quality Mulch Provider In Dunwoody GA
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We rent roll-off dumpsters from 10 to 20 yards in size. Rent one for home remodeling, junk removal, yard clean up or other clean-up projects. Construction and demolition debris includes wood, cardboard, sheetrock, siding, insulation, shingles, etc. We also accept clean dirt, rock, brick, & concrete. 10-yard containers shall not be filled over 2/3 full and 16-yard containers not over full due to 8-ton truck limitation. We do not accept: Asbestos, Tires, Paint, Batteries, or hazardous waste.
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- $225 for trash or construction debris (C&D)
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16 Yard Dumpster Rental (5'x8'x12')
- $250 for trash or construction debris (C&D)
- Huge 4-ton weight allowance*
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- $275 for trash or construction debris (C&D)
- Huge 4-ton weight allowance*
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*4-tons allowance = 8000 pounds. As a point of reference a full size pick-up truck weighs about 5500 pounds. Typical junk and trash dumpsters will always be under this allowance unless you have heavy material like tile, concrete block, brick or shingles. Any amount over 4-ton allowance will be billed at $35/ton.
We will place plywood underneath wheels and rails for $50 extra or if you provide plywood and we will do this at no charge.
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At Chipper LLC Tree Service we are proud to offer the Dunwoody GA area quality mulch, topsoil, and various other landscaping supplies at an affordable cost! We do this by using our screening equipment, which makes it easy to sort out topsoil or mulch that you already have!
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"Excellent Job, guys polite, on time, cleaned up -- All around good experience."

subset: commoncrawl


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The Southington Police Department is investigating another armed robbery, this one at the recently opened 7-11 store at 777 Queen Street.
This is the third armed robbery in Southington within a 24-hour period. Two banks were robbed on Monday.
Police responded to the 7-11 at 1:20 a.m. The suspect entered the store and handed the clerk a note indicating that he had a weapon and demanding money. The suspect held his hand under his shirt as if he was holding a weapon.
The clerk gave the suspect cash from the register and a pack of cigarettes and the suspect fled the store in a westerly direction across Queen Street.
Patrol officers and a K-9 unit were unable to track the suspect.
The suspect is described as a white male wearing a plain gray hooded sweatshirt, plain gray sweat pants, clean shaven and in his 20s. He is approx. 6'0″ – 6'2″ tall, with a thin build.
Police are working to determine if the string of robberies are connected and are also following up on leads that were provided by the public.
Anyone with information on any of these robberies is asked to contact the Southington Police Department at 860-378-1698.


text:
Understanding DesignFebruary 23, 2004
It appears that Microsoft promoter extraordinnaire Robert Scoble has sparked a debate about the value of design.
Robert's claim that readability comes before 'prettiness' may be valid in some cases, but let's not waste our breaths. Throwing arguments in favour of design at one with an engineer mindset is as effective as stapling Jello to the wall; it just won't stick.
Something that we all need to keep in mind: when it comes to design, everyone's a critic. Sure, they're all allowed opinions, but here's a little secret just between us: they're not always (or even seldom) right. You're allowed to walk away from the argument without bringing them around to your way of thinking, because those who take the time to argue will rarely be swayed anyway.
Yes, there are basic design principles that every designer needs to keep in mind; legibility and usability are two very important ones that sometimes receive less treatment than they deserve. But design is always about compromising and finding the best fit for the job. Legibility comes in varying degrees, as does usability. If there was a one-size-fits-all solution, why we'd all be out of work, wouldn't we?
In the end, the designer is the one being paid to make the judgement call. Why? Because the designer has studied the issues and knows what works better for a large percentage of the population. A small and vocal minority may kick up a dust storm, but if they haven't been involved in the decision making and don't have the benefit of the designer's knowledge, they can't possibly understand how their concern may not be as important as they think.
Now pay attention, because this part is important. A lot of people will attack or question design in general, because in their minds they have reduced it to a simple and subjective styling issue. They don't have any experience with typography, proportion, colour theory (and colour blindness for that matter), emotional response, form and function. Because design is simply a matter of decoration, they feel they have the same right as the designer to dictate the visual direction of any particular project, or lack of it as the case may be.
Many of our clients feel this way; some would fire us without a moment's notice if they figured out Photoshop. We're hired for our technical skills, not our creative vision. And many of us are content to let that mindset persist.
In fact, even in the general web community this goes on daily. A stream of "I like it because…" and "I don't like it because…" inevitably follows the launch of any redesign. Some ask for the critiques, others don't, but everyone gets them regardless. The response can be valuable to create overall impressions, but when work starts being tailored to quell any one particular commenter's dissatisfaction, there's clearly a problem.
Credibility is the issue here. You don't walk up to a civic engineer and scribble on his blueprints. You're more than welcome to voice your concern at a public forum, but it's up to the engineer to take your concern into consideration, as well as the concerns of everyone else, and figure out the best way to integrate them into an existing workflow, on top of an existing project, without impacting safety and accessibility concerns, while keeping the whole thing on budget. If another well-respected engineer speaks up, you can bet that issue is weighted far higher than the voice of a member of the general public.
Designers can be too quick to relinquish their control over a project to members of the public: the squeaky wheel gets greased, and the problem gets patched. None of this is to say the public isn't right; they often are, in a limited capacity. But without having the context of the overall project, they usually won't be led to understand why their particular concern will end up being too minor to address, or an inevitable trade-off to make something else work properly, or ignored completely because of the impact making a change would have on another part of the project.
You'll rarely see me allow comments on design work I post. You'll never hear me ask for an opinion. You can take it on faith I considered your point long, long ago, and had a good reason for making the choice I did.
Debate can be healthy, but sometimes it's just a waste of time. If you get paid for your decisions, you're better off standing confidently behind them instead of reversing them at a hint of opposition.
Reader Comments
"Eric's and miffeds arguments is that the graphic designer can't possibly understand what the engineer does, and will always dismiss any objections as irrelevant to their 'vision'."
Not quite sure I'm reading that right, but designers don't understand what engineers do, and vice versa, that's why we have different jobs. Someone thinking they know how to write a page because they write a few pages and javascripts for their blog once in a while is like someone saying they know how to design because they put a pumpkin head on someone in Photoshop. As Tony points out, there are lots of bad designers, and I would add there are lots of bad engineers. Engineers who dismiss quality design are not just "being engineers", in fact they are failing at it. The responsibility of an engineer is to solve a problem, and ignoring a part of the solution because you didn't need to take an art class in school is wrong.
"I'm sure the folks at Speak Up!, some including the top designers internationally, would disagree vehemently"
I'm hoping that this page: http://www.underconsideration.com/speakup/ isn't the url of the site you are referencing. I would sincerely hope that anyone considering themself a top web designer would have nothing to do with a site like that. Teeny fixed fonts, fixed layout, missing or incorrect alt tags, unecessary graphical list headers (no doubt because someone really liked that S). Yikes.
I guess it all boils down to two types of designers (along a continuum of course). There are the designers that understand why people are actually coming to their web site, and those that don't. People don't go to sites because they are pretty, they go because there is something they want. The job of the designer is to understand what people want and get them there. Of course you also have the marketing people getting involved, and the legal department, and different people coming for different reasons, and that's where the compromises start. To bring it back to Scoble's posts, he's talking about overdesigned weblogs, and the reason people go to web logs is to read the text. Detracting from the reason 100% of your audience is on your site in any way is bad design, and you don't have to be an engineer to know that :)
I will be anonymous here because I'm going to talk about an experience with real designers and customers.
The last two designs I've worked look pretty. They're usable. Under ideal circumstances. But they really hold a list of inderterminite length, and once you get over 5 items they look terrible and are very hard to use. As an engineer I will comment on it and suggest better options.
And as a user advocate. Too many designers say "I have years of experience and already considered all options" when they haven't considered everything. Most recent suggestion was that we over-ride the user's large font size so that the design would still look the same.
Actually, yes, I am referencing the Speak Up! forum you've listed. For one thing, it's perfectly designed for it's AUDIENCE, which is the key. It's designed to make designers smile; not for web usability, accessibility experts or even the general public. It doesn't matter if it's a small font, because the AUDIENCE of Speak Up a) doesn't care, dammit ;-) or b) are web savvy enough to press CTRL +
Also, it's sad, but your prejudice is showing with the lack of underestanding you show for the design decisions Armin made with the Speak Up redesign.
As well, one website doesn't necessarily mean that all their work are broken down to this type of design. For example, my weblog is purple and black, with a punky grunge style. Why? Because I said so, and it's a personal page, and the audience that goes to my site appreciates it. Do I always design that way? Actually, no. I CHALLENGED myself as a designer to go away from my USUAL ultra-clean and bright designs.
I find it unfortunate you've dealt with designers with closed-minded viewpoints, but it's also sad to see the same closed-mindedness in your comments. We've known from the beginning of time, that a more attractive looking piece (website or not) will garner more respect/attention and if done properly, better accessibility and usability, than if those weren't taken into account.
People go to weblogs to read them, yes. But you know what? If it came down to reading a nicely designed weblog with the same content as a poorly designed one… which one will I choose?
Everyone should learn to respect each other, instead of taking elitist viewpoints.
How did Samsung climbed out of the mess that was the mid-90s for them? Now, they sell a lot of the most popular cell phones. Why? Design. Their products worked well before. What changed? Design. Their products became more beautiful and USABLE… end result? Sales. Better design = clientelle with bigger pockets willing to spend.
In fact, Samsung went to the Art Centre in Pasdena for consultation. They also spent an entire year just re-learning ways on how to approach design. There is a direct correlation to their success with their aggressive approach to design and implementation of it. I have the article on it at my desk right now about it.
So in order to conclude my "rant" (heh), everyone needs to just learn to respect each other's strengths and weaknesses. A person who is *good* at their job will realise that it takes a team effort to create a good website or end product. And a team effort includes respecting both a designer and engineer's viewpoints. Not to point fingers and establish stereotypes like all designers are flighty artists, and all engineers are boring and unflinching duds (I'm sure William Hung proved that wrong… hehehe)
Just because you don't *understand* why a certain choice was made, doesn't mean it's "wrong."
Trent: huh? I'm looking at my site in Safari on a Macintosh, on IE6/Win, and Mozilla/Win, and my column widths are limited. Can you email me a screen shot of what you're seeing?
I guess not being a 'real' designer, I always keep discussionon my own redesigns open just to let people point out all the things that might be wrong with it. In this case, I view it more in the Open-Source sense, that more eyeballs are more likely to pick up mistakes. That doesn't mean that I'm always going to agree with, or do something about, comments, but the more critical comments I get, the better I feel 'backed up' in a design.
Of course, I've tried to teach myself most design issues to help, but actually designing an attractive website seems to be the hardest thing of all for me to grasp. Until my latest design revision, I've never been happy with my work once finished. So how does one become a 'real designer? How do you learn attractive design?
Robert [20], I'm at home now and your site seems fine. But when I was at work on Win2K using Firefox 0.8, your articles were aligned with the left side of the page and were running straight to the right edge of the page.
I'm happy to report that on my WinXP box using Firefox 0.8 (and Opera, and Firebird, and IE), your site looks normal. I'll try it again tommorow at work and send you a screenshot if it still looks messed up.
Sorry if I seemed curt before :)
When you use the term 'engineer', do you mean the profession of engineering with the license, iron ring and all?
Software engineers are required to be creative and must learn how to design software and architecture (at my school and the program is accredited). Some even have to earn credits in human-computer interaction or user-centered design in order to graduate.
The engineers and designers being discussed here, do they apply design patterns or usability patterns to support their decisions or is it done by intuition? Patterns were first introduced by Christopher Alexander for architecture (the building kind). The software patterns also have empirical support.
I made the assumption that by design, it is not 'magic'.
I think Keith made a good point. I'm not one to say that "undesigned" sites are useless, and that users should put up with whatever designers throw at them for their own good, but (obviously) I wouldn't take Scoble's viewpoint that design is just superfluous ego droppings.
My work has involved practice in both design and engineering. I wouldn't claim to be a master at either, but I think the experience from both fields really helps me to take things from every perspective. When building a website, the designer must consider, in this order: what the users need, what the client wants, and what you know. As has been said before, the process of design is a series of tradeoffs, using knowledge about usability, color theory, balance, etc. to make good decisions.
It's like a political spectrum. Each side has good points, but neither side is right on everything.
"How do you learn attractive design?"
Lach, I'm only a designer by hobby, but I can offer one tidbit of advice, you learn it by doing it ALOT. I'm sure the more experienced designers here can offer more proverbial advice, but I find you just need to have a semblance of an idea and fiddle and tweak. You'll throw away and undo 95% of your stuff before your happy with it, not unlike writing. I read somewhere that if design ever comes easy to you you're in trouble…
Good discussion. As stated, there's a broad spectrum of views and abilities.
My cohorts and I all have different skills and abilities and recognize what those are so we can bring them together to build a kick-ass web site or application. Front-end, back-end, usability, content writers(oh yeah, content!), etc. We all overlap slightly, but recognize our abilities and talents and work towards those. Being the (D)designer, and front end coder, I'm able to incorporate backend databases from one person, writing from another (usually) and usability/documentation from another, among other things. Sometimes we don't have that luxury and do the best we can with what we have to work with.
Do we have opinions about each others work? Yes, but we have professional reason to back up what we do (which get altered sometimes to please a client) and make the case for our work. If you're so thin-skinned that you feel the need to put down obviously lousy work, then it may be time to move on.
Eric, what so bad about fixed widths? Some of the best "read" sites use fixed widths to increase readability.
Live and let live folks.
Also, to add on how to learn to do "attractive design"– use your eyes. ;-) Seems obvious, but not very many people are observant. Flip through magazines, look at posters plastered around your city: find ones you like. Pick up those postcards, visit media websites. Then… apply your visual knowledge to your work.
In some ways, design is very methodical. There's the golden mean, colour wheels that show you different color relationships and harmonies, and balance studies. It's all math, but translated visually. :-) Designers are just visual mathetmaticians. Sometimes it adds up, sometimes not. But we keep plugging away at the "formula" until it works.
That reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
"Design is thinking made visual" - Saul Bass
dunno, but i thought i'd take a crack at it… as when i read Scoble's post today it almost sounded like a "challenge" to me…. then again, maybe it was the 2 latte's i just gulped down and felt… nevermind.
anywho, i posted this over at Scobles:
which i just whipped up pretty quick this afternoon. taking his site, not changing much, but just tweaking it a little bit…. dont think he liked it too much, however. maybe he does, i dunno. make some points about my specifing the font-type, prefering to leave it absolutely blank and subject to the users default browser font… *blink*
as a 'designer' that just made me take a step back and go "what?" so let me ask: is this common?
Has it ever occured to you, David, that you might be overcomplicating the matter, like A List Apart?
Of course, you DO know everything about design, don't you?
well said, Lea!
This aerospace engineer appreciates the reference to my general profession. :) You might have all sorts of great questions as to why this or that in spaceflight construction is or isn't done, and we'd have a long dialogue. But if we leave it surface, everyone will go, "But of course you'd want to design the crew-compartment of the Shuttle orbiter to be detachable and parachutable!"
Until you take all the design considerations and risks/benefits/costs into perspective, you get to the Good Enough Point and just stop.
I think the Good Enough Point is just not well-understood by the layman. I don't know how you get to evangelizing it, either.
while I'm definitely from the engineering side of the camp I enjoy reading your posts and the resulting comments as they tend to (as expected) have a design-centric perspective. There's a mentality shared by some that a sharp, black line splits the two worlds. While they may be at opposite ends of a spectrum, there is no discrete point where you cross the border from one to the other. Individual perspectives are scattered along the continuum, often relocating as the context of a specific project changes. It seems to me it's the rhetoric from the extremes that causes most of the animosity. Fortunately we all have the right to express our viewpoints and means to put them into practice. Ultimately the market-style forces of the Internet will hand down judgment.
Dave, I've tried your little JELL-O metaphor out. You're right: it doesn't stick, but it does leave a nice red splotch on my wall… do you think bleach will take it out?
Even though I consider myself a "Microsoft promoter" in a way, too, the attitude exhibited by Robert is veeeery typical among the developers in the Microsoft camp. *sigh*
I put much effort in my design because it's a matter of "practice what you preach". Still, I think these discussions are healthy because they are finally drawing attention to the design aspect of web development. Unfortunately few people understand that web development is a science with careful research of colors, layouts, column width, accessbility, etc.
*shakes head*
Never let an engineer do your design work… and don't listen to their opinions on design.
I actually have to attempt to dance on the fence being a CS student and a web designer. Of course, I mainly focus on usability design, but I never make anything outstandingly cool, just workable. That said, my fellow CS students couldn't desin their way out of a paper bag.
Keep it coming Dave.
Mark - "It seems to me it's the rhetoric from the extremes that causes most of the animosity."
Bingo. I generally get along quite well with engineers, and I respect the work they do. I recognize that I don't have nearly enough experience to comment on things like RSS/Atom, XML, PHP or Perl. I'd expect everyone to call me on my inexperienced fumbling if ever I were to.
But that's a two-way street.
"Fortunately we all have the right to express our viewpoints and means to put them into practice. Ultimately the market-style forces of the Internet will hand down judgment."
I like this.
There's really no need to argue that design is necessary, because companies keep paying for it.
AMEN! There is a level of truth in what Scoble said. Readability is part of good design. Just because something is colorful or has dynamic photos or graphics does not mean it is well designed. But just because something is readable, does not make it well designed either. A lot of the criticism toward designers, web and otherwise, I feel is due to how easily accessible desktop publishing systems are. non-designers think design is all technical, and they can do it just as well as the "pros" for a lot less money. Look at the bookshelves. Books like "The Nondesigners Design Book" and the like perpetuate this view. The problem is that people don't know how to track the effectiveness of design and the impact good design has on promotional work, advertising, etc.
A friend of mine - one of the most respectful designers I've ever known - used to say "design is opinion" and he was so damn right. The old design = decoration = "anyone can do it" conundrum is largely based, I think, on the plethora of software that has surfaced since the beginnings of desktop publishing that allows anyone with few or no expertise at all to create "instant design" that is "equal or better" to that of professional graphic designers. If you remember, Microsoft released some time ago an ad campaign for their MS Publisher product that exploited those beliefs to full effect.
Granted, any one of us with a professional design background know there is more to the design discipline than just dabbling around in Photoshop. But try telling that to the client that is holding your paycheck unless you finally put that ugly, flaming, spinning logo on their site.
Luckily for us, that's a situation that seldom happens here. Once you get some big-name clients under your belt, clients start taking you seriously… as for our engineers, they rather ask ME for application design and usability suggestions. How could I complain about that.
I'm going to take a typical Swedish middle-of-the-road stand here and say that both you, Dave, and Robert Scoble have valid points.
I'm from the engineer camp, and I have no formal knowledge about design. I do like good design, though, as long as it doesn't get in the way of readability. Some sites (not mezzoblue) go overboard with their design, making it very pretty but also hard to read. If the design itself is the main goal of the site, that's fine. If the author wants to convey information, then s/he has failed.
I'd like to propose a compromise between the two extremes: design to the extent of your ability, but pay attention to accessibility and usability. I know, this is what most bloggers do already.
Oh, and having a degree in design doesn't necessarily make anyone a good web designer. There are far too many examples out there of print designers who have designed their web sites as if they were on paper. Perhaps it's those that Mr. Scoble targets with his post?
I guess I have to play the foil here…
"Because the designer has studied the issues and knows what works better for a large percentage of the population."
I have to disagree here. Designers rarely seem to have a sophisticated view of their work. Designers rarely say "most people…", but they are always saying "what i'm trying to do here is…" Sad to say but designers like some of you who actually care about accessibility and legibility (even if you don't prioritize it properly) are in the minority.
"Never let an engineer do your design work… and don't listen to their opinions on design."
The second part of that is a great way to ensure a poor end result. It's like the architect/engineer situation. You can have a building without an architect's stamp, but not without an engineer's. Why? Because they aren't concerned with their "vision" as much as they are with the fact that you the thing won't fall over.
If I need to have something built by a certain deadline, and my schedule has already been cut because of extra rounds of creative review, do you think I'm going to bring up fundamental design issues or am I going to do what needs to be done to make sure the person can get complete the task the site was designed for?
In general I have to say that engineers need to be included in the design process far more than they typically are. They are the voice of reason, and they are the ones that are going to turn your comps into something useful, so be nice to them. We see the alternative every day, sites that obviously had a good premise but broke down because there was a lack of reality in the initial design.
"Because the designer has studied the issues and knows what works better for a large percentage of the population. A small and vocal minority may kick up a dust storm, but if they haven't been involved in the decision making and don't have the benefit of the designer's knowledge, they can't possibly understand how their concern may not be as important as they think."
Sorry Dave, I see your essay as just more "designer" snobbery. So you think the "designer" is the only one on a team who may have "studied the issues?"
Come on! Some of us are not even allowed to be on the design team because we are not graphic designers who, by default, think they seem to know everything about anything.
As a webmaster, I know the issues as well as the next guy regarding web development, but they are simply dismissed as bullcrap because I am not a degreed graphic artist.
Unfortunately, when you graphic "designers" are involved, the idea of teamwork or user testing goes out the window, because after all, if artists don't know it, it ain't worth knowing … apparently.
Thank you.
P.S. Even though, I still like you and your web site.
Before Scoble preaches about readability, maybe he should make it so the text on his page doesn't run on for 15" per full line of text on my monitor.
Both dissenting comments so far (#9 and #10) have presented an interesting alternate take on the post. The underlying assumption in Eric's and 'miffed's arguments is that the graphic designer can't possibly understand what the engineer does, and will always dismiss any objections as irrelevant to their 'vision'.
Are you sure about this guys? Designers aren't always glorified artists, you know.
It sounds like 'miffed' works on a team where the graphic designers sit on top of the coders in a hierarchy, and call all the shots. Healthy for the final product? Depends on what that final product is.
But generalizing like this isn't fair. Broadly lumping all designers into one category of 'those who don't need to squint at 8pt' is about as dangerous as saying all engineers have no design sense.
(By the way, please stand up for yourself next time miffed. Use a real name. This is largely why I haven't been enabling comments recently.)
What the designer thinks about a design is completely unimportant. For that matter, what the client thinks is fairly unimportant too. Clients pay us to design to some standard, usually the image they want to project or feeling they want to invoke. The final arbitrator of good design is does is do that when tested against real live users. My opinion and the clients opinion doesn't really matter, and we frequently have to remind our clients of that. (Note I'm speaking purely of graphic design, we always seperate IA and graphic design)
Thank you Dave for this article. This is how I feel.
However, "miffed" is a little misguided in his/her thinking. It's not further design snobbery that Dave is preaching–it's recognizing that if you hire someone to do a specific task (say, DESIGN a website), then the person doing the hiring and team working with said designer, should respect his or her expertise. Too much have I seen that designers are left out of things are important as branding meetings to something as menial as implementing ID cards for the company. All of which should have consulted their resident designer.
The problem isn't the professional individuals expertise, it's the closed-mindedness of the individuals and frankly, personal arrogance coupled with fear of your job security. Miffed, how can defending your profession be considered "design snobbery?"
Also, Eric: "Designers rarely seem to have a sophisticated view of their work."
I'm sure the folks at Speak Up!, some including the top designers internationally, would disagree vehemently. The point with the engineers vs. designers line is that you wouldn't hire a contractor to design your house, would you. An engineer has a specific job; so do designers. If I want to decorate my house, I ask an interior designer. Not the house builder.
Not sure if this point has been made but…
Why does it often seem like these concepts need to be exclusive to each other? "Miffed" talks about design snobbery and there is quite a bit of that out there, just as there is an equal and opposite form of "engineer" (or whatever) snobbery.
I cosider myself a designer and I think I know quite a bit about teamwork and user testing. I imagine many designers don't care, and just as many engineers don't care about design, or what-have-you.
This debate is older than me and frankly there is no right or wrong, no black or white…Only a whole crapload of grey area.
When you sit in the middle, as many of us do, post like Scoble's seem very shortsided and biased. The same could be said for many designer types who are on the opposite side of the spectrum when they talk about how, say, Google is ugly and needs a redesign.
Both arguments are pretty silly when you add context to them and look at them from both sides…or from somewhere in the middle.
Eric said: "Sad to say but designers like some of you who actually care about accessibility and legibility (even if you don't prioritize it properly) are in the minority."
Yes and no. I think one of the problems is there are so many untrained, uneducated (in design theory), self-professed "designers" out there mucking up the talent pool. These days, it seems that anyone with a copy of FrontPage and (possibly) Photoshop deems themselves a "web designer", whithout the first clue about usability, interface design, information architecture, color, whitespace, contrast, proper coding techniques, and the list goes on…In my view, the "majority" of designers aren't really designers…any more than I'm an accountant because I use Quicken.
> Isn't web design all about communicating effectively?
I agree. To me building a website isn't about technology, its about people connecting and communicating with other people, even better if a relationship comes out of it, no matter if it is a business or personal site.
> I'm not the person posting as "miffed", but last time I posted here, somebody wrote off my opinion as nonsense just because it was me posting it, and didn't bother to respond to any of my points.
Actually that's one of the things that I find so hilarious about people commenting on weblogs. For the longest time I would very rarely see people directly talk to one another! It's almost like showing up at a party with a bunch of people in the room and everyone is talking but just to themselves standing alone. Now, however, I'm seeing more and more interaction. Authors of sites are actually responding to those commenting and even those commenting are talking amongst each other now on occasion. The interaction is nice to see, instead of just individuals talking into space!
> I'd like to pose a question to all the people who think that "engineer types" shouldn't have any input into the graphic design side of things.
There are a ton of people who may not know how to draw a stick man but they know a beautiful design when they see it. I agree with you there. Actually every once in a while people actually get shocked and surprised when something unexpected sheds light on something. People are the same way, don't stereotype a person by their job title. Every person is diverse. Diversity is good. It allows you to look at life from different angles.
(too far down to get read, oh well…)
this isn't a new argument.
in fact, this argument is very similar to the one that the "interaction designers|architects" still seem to be having periodically. perhaps it's just another facet of it.
part of the problem about being a web designer is that the visual part of what you do is often perceived by clients to be more of the total work than it actually is.
there is a semantic issue here.
given the above arguments, if we were called web engineers (with or without comparable qualifications) what is the likelyhood is that clients (or other vested parties) would argue and interfere less?
because of photoshop, because anyone can read my HTML architecture and because anyone can quickly learn the basics the assumption is often made that this is easy.
we might on occasion even add to the devaluing process by making it look easy, in an effort to impress.
if people were more aware of the breadth of skill involved in web design*, they might be a little more afraid, a little less hasty to stick an oar in.
A "design" free title might help.
* (i'm thinking that you might know all about typography, colour design, accessibility, usability, information architecture, css & html authoring, layouts, hacks, search engine optimization, - you obviously have advanced skills with photoshop and may have skills in javascript, java, php, perl, sql and all manner of other things)
Design is a very personal thing, really, and each of us has our own internal definition of the word "design" that we all assume is the same as everyone else's. To me, I see there being similar yet ultimately divergent definitions of design that differ only by the _result_ expected by the viewer. Some, I think, would define design as the aesthetic, the composition – purely the cosmetic surface – where the result of the design is beauty. Others would define design as the structure – the system – and the result of the design is functionality. Both definitions are right and in an ideal world both results are expected equally, unfortunately, that is not always the case and often we each have our own bias as to what result is valued more.
When you're at the top of your game, and you have already considered points long, long ago Dave's point: 'stand confidently behind your design decisions' is excellent advice (and obviously there's a responsibility to explain those choices in a meaningful way when challenged within the project team). When you're developing your game, in the process of evolving your skill set and aesthetic, I would still keep this advice in mind and work that much harder to have the knowledge needed to get to that point.
Reading this thread, the discussions at Scoble's site, it made me take a hard look at my own definition of design, and it's obvious that I lean towards expecting beauty as a result. And even to a certain extent I sacrifice functionality for that goal. For me, these discussions are a great way to reevaluate my process, to better develop my game, so eventually I will be able to have skills needed to gain the confidence Dave wrote about.
Doesn't the old saying go "Form follows function"? That to me is what design is about. Not one without the other, but one striving over the other. Think of it like the Tao symbol of yin and yang. I'm sure most people strive for the positive over the negative, but for wholeness to be achieved, they both have to be there. If you place too much emphasis on one aspect over the other though, you get out of balance and the entire thing suffers because of it.
Too much design may look cool but as you start navigating around the site you may say "This sucks!" because you hit too many roadblocks in trying to get what you want and thus have a bad user "experience". Too much emphasis on functionality, on the other hand, may make a site easier to use and get around but strips the "beauty" away from it, making it a gray wasteland to walk within. Yet when both form and functionality come together and merge to form a perfect balance, you achieve that simple "beautiful experience" that people just can't seem to get enough of.
I'm with Nollind on this one. IMHO, the whole point of having a webpage is to put some kind of content on it. For some websites, the design *is* the content (like the Zen Garden (wink)), but for most sites the content is something more "mundane"… text, non-design images, sounds, etc. If you sacrifice being able to easily access that content for the sake of design, you've just defeated the purpose of your site!
But… design is an important tool. It can (and should, IMHO) be used to enhance your content, and reinforce the message you're trying to convey with it. Yeah, a site with just meaningful content is good, but a site with meaningful content and an attractive matching design is great.
Like most things in life, the "truth" tends to lie somewhere in the middle.
(Of course, this is coming from someone who's in the middle of redesigning her sites and wishing she had better design skills…)
> Robert's claim that readability comes before "prettiness" may be valid in some cases
Isn't web design all about communicating effectively? In order for a design to succeed, it has to achieve at least *basic* readability, something that is often not the case when designers get carried away. As such, readability *always* "comes before" prettiness, in the sense that if something isn't readable, the design has failed, no matter how pretty the designer thinks it is.
Yes, I agree that there are tradeoffs to be made, but actively making something difficult to read is going to be open to valid criticism in the *vast majority* of cases.
> Throwing arguments in favour of design at one with an engineer mindset is as effective as stapling Jello to the wall; it just won't stick.
I disagree, I am very much the engineer type, but I can certainly appreciate the aesthetic side of things. It's just that it's a lot harder for me to be happy with a very nice looking but useless picture instead of a nice looking and *useful* website. Graphic designers have the handicap that their job requires them to focus on how something looks rather than how it works for most of their time, and so they can often miss the big picture. In a perfect world, designers would all be competent and not create useless but nice-looking pictures, and I would feel a lot happier trusting their judgement. This isn't a perfect world, so when a designer tells me to "take it on faith" that he's made the best possible decisions and considered all angles, warning lights start flashing.
> In the end, the designer is the one being paid to make the judgement call. Why? Because the designer has studied the issues and knows what works better for a large percentage of the population.
Sure, *competent* designers do that. It seems to me that competence is rarer than it should be.
> A small and vocal minority may kick up a dust storm, but if they haven't been involved in the decision making and don't have the benefit of the designer's knowledge, they can't possibly understand how their concern may not be as important as they think.
Perhaps on a weblog like this, the small and vocal minority are worth ignoring, but are you really stating that in a professional setting, when actual users complain, you just write them off as cranks who don't appreciate your art? It's a very common attitude in the web design industry as far as I can tell, and statements like that just promote it.
Remember that nine times out of ten, if somebody is unhappy with something, they silently make do rather than complain, so a "small but vocal minority" often indicates a larger problem. For instance, my mother didn't use the web at all because she found it difficult to read because of all the small font sizes. She didn't complain about it, she just didn't use it. She found her default font size to be readable though, it's just that the websites she had seen didn't use it. That's a classic example of a design failure. The same applies to most people with a problem - they just learn to live without or go elsewhere.
> You'll rarely see me allow comments on design work I post. You'll never hear me ask for an opinion. You can take it on faith I considered your point long, long ago, and had a good reason for making the choice I did.
Are you really stating that you always think of all possibilities beforehand and never make mistakes? That, as soon as the design is finished, nobody can offer any useful input whatsoever? That any possible criticism has already been pre-empted by you and overruled?
> But generalizing like this isn't fair. Broadly lumping all designers into one category of "those who don't need to squint at 8pt" is about as dangerous as saying all engineers have no design sense.
I agree. But it's a strong stereotype, and posting things like "You can take it on faith that I considered your point long, long ago" only strengthens it.
> (By the way, please stand up for yourself next time miffed. Use a real name. This is largely why I haven't been enabling comments recently.)
I'm not the person posting as "miffed", but last time I posted here, somebody wrote off my opinion as nonsense just because it was me posting it, and didn't bother to respond to any of my points. There's a small minority of idiots that make it easier to post anonymously (and there's also a small minority of idiots that make it easier to make up a name, as apparently only people with names are worthy of an opinion).
I'd like to pose a question to all the people who think that "engineer types" shouldn't have any input into the graphic design side of things. If there was something *technically* wrong with a website that you were working on, would you bring it up, or would you assume the engineers already saw the problem and dismissed it, and consider your opinion to be irrelevent and that you should just keep quiet? If you'd mention it, then why, when an engineer sees a problem with a design, do you expect him to keep quiet about it?
I'm a CS student and a web designer at once. Sometimes I have both views on design (the engineer's view AND the designer's view) and it's just straight up confusing. Most of the time though, I take the engineer's side when designers start whining about how people don't understand how "hard" their job is. I've been in web design since I was 15 (I'm 21 now) and to be honest, I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but it really is easy to be a web designer. I hate it even more when people say engineers can't design (one guy above says that his "fellow CS students can't design their way out of a paper bag" or something like that).
Hey Duc: "The other" David S was just saying that the other CS students in his class couldn't design. This is a lot different than saying all CS students can't design.
I'm a graduate of a computer science and software engineering course, and I'd definitely say the same thing about my old class.
You say it's really easy to be a web designer. To a certain degree you're right. It's easy to put a website together. What's difficult is putting one together well. If you start worrying about typography, whitespace and giving the user visual hints as to the relative importance of content, things start to get really difficult.
I'm working on the design for an online tech magazine called "Antidisinformation". From time to time I'd put up the in-progress design comp for the co-creator of the site to look at and comment on. I made a gallery of these designs: http://dave.antidisinformation.com/addesigns/1.html
(by the way, I think we can all agree that 1 and 2 are terrible)
It would have been easy to stick at around stages 3 or 4. Definitely at stage 5. But the design would not be as tight and as sharp as it is at stage 7. You know what the hardest part of the design process was? Moving from stage 5 to stage 7. The work involved was more difficult than that taken to move from stage 1 to stage 5. It was at this stage that I really started to look at how the brand was communicated, how the different text elements looked together, etc.
And the design is still not finished. The sidebar needs a lot of work, as does the main content area. But the point is, design gets hard when you start to worry about such important things as the brand, typography, emotional response, and usability. If you don't concern yourself with such things, you get an easy ride but an inferior end result.
Dave Shea: It's pretty easy to staple jello to a wall. Just put it in a bag, or keep it in the original packaging. This is the engineering mindset at work.
The problem is software developers and designers are talking two different types of design.
For software developers, the design behind a piece of software product is not immediately visible to users. In this world, it is all abstract. Objects and patterns are used to satisfy the needs of users, implemented as code as efficiently as possible. Probably because with the complexity of making sure every piece of code works correctly, most programmers do not have time or attention to care how the piece of software "looks". Presentation is just an afterthought buried behind requirements, efficient code, and quality assurance.
The problem is in the software development world, user experience is a concept that is not fully understood or talked about. Without understanding this important concept, I do not think any software guru should comment on the importance of what graphic design is all about or one aspect comes first than the other.
Yeah it is really easy to be a web designer; as easy as painting a picture that recreates the experience viewing Picasso's Guernica. Software guys probably would say, that is so true.
> The problem is in the software development world, user experience is a concept that is not fully understood or talked about.
On the contrary, HCI is a well-established field, taught as part of many computer science degrees.
> Without understanding this important concept, I do not think any software guru should comment on the importance of what graphic design is all about or one aspect comes first than the other.
Graphic design is not HCI. As I understand it, many graphic design courses include a module for HCI, just the same as computer science courses. I fail to see why "software gurus" should be told to keep quiet.
"It's pretty easy to staple jello to a wall. Just put it in a bag, or keep it in the original packaging. This is the engineering mindset at work."
– David Barrett
Hehe, I agree. ^_^ Real engineers are trained to solve problems.
"Diversity is good. It allows you to look at life from different angles."
– Nollind Whachell
Yup yup, agree with this too. It is important to get as many points of view as possible, for one does not encompass all. I believe a web site designed with input from both an engineering perspective and artistic perspective will be better than simply one or the other. Of course, there will be conflicts.
"On the contrary, HCI is a well-established field, taught as part of many computer science degrees."
– Jim Dabell
It is also supported by empirical research.
"but it really is easy to be a web designer."
– Duc
Perhaps those "web designers" are designing from a craftsmanship perspective akin to artisans making pottery and passing knowledge by word of mouth. The process is ad-hoc.
Interesting reading. However, your font size choice is so small as to be unreadable to me unless I push it up to 140%. Zeldman sites are the same way. I'm a engineering type, not a designer. I appreciate design, but am lousy at it myself. In fact, I like the look of small type, but it does make it hard for people who are over 40 or so to read.
!!Never mind!. I found your typesize button. So, I amend my remarks to say, well done!
Ah, the old debate. Some comments:
HCI. Yes, many CS programs teach this. Not all, though—although I wish they would.
Font size & readability. If a site isn't readable, odds are there's one of two reasons for it: the textual content is not the focus, or the person responsible for the design did not do a great job. You see lots of examples of both on the web; seeing a poorly executed example doesn't mean that *all* sites designed with poor readability is a bad thing.
Now for my own 2 cents: form reinforces function, just as function can reinforce form. Both will always be there, and it's really just a matter of what degree. And this is not just a web site issue, although it's the most talked about around here.
Take the product lines carried by, say, Walmart…vs. the product lines carried by Target. The majority of the products at Walmart are of your "no-frills" variety; very low on the the form and high on the function. They get the job done.
Now take the products carried by Target. Seemingly higher on the form than the function (although that's really not the case—they are for the most part very well balanced), these products tend to be much more sellable, mainly because they are both attractive and functional. This is how Target does well in the face of the WalMart giant. Many of the products sold by Target are a good combination of both form and function, and the really successful ones reinforce both.
There's nothing wrong with having a good balance, and most of you will find—mostly subjectively, of course—that a good-looking site is inherently more usable than a bare-bones, all function one (such as Master Scoble's site).
(as an aside, while there may be engineers that *can* do decent design, they are very, very rare—and usually in high demand because of it)


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Can you believe it?! December is here! That means whatever I'm reading that's not a Christmas story, it needs to be abandoned for everything that is Christmas story.
Before I get to them though, I'd like to thank you all for making our second anniversary a huge success.To all the authors that have participated and to those that have been busy in their 'writing caves' and couldn't stop by this year [and who I'll certainly accost next year], I want to send my heartfelt thanks. You are a bunch of unbelievably generous people that make me appreciate and love your work and you that much more.
My thanks go to all of my new and old subscribers who've faithfully followed and made comments [and made my days so much fun just by reading them all], I send my big, huge, humongous Serbian hug and a kiss! Without you, there wouldn't be bookworm2bookworm. Period.
I also want to thank you all, authors and readers alike, for your patience with me on the contests that ran with every post [thirty-five in total for the month of November], as I procrastinated 'till the very last. I promise that by the end of this weekend many of you will be pleasantly surprised to find your names on our Contest page, and by the end of next weekend, we will have the Grand Prize announced and given away!
This month I'd like to dedicate to Christmas stories and will be recommending some that I've read before as well as some newly published. I hope you'll stop by and join me in the coming weeks to find out which one's I'm recommending and maybe recommend some of your own… I love this time of year and there's nothing better than finding that perfect Christmas story that touches your heart, makes you sigh and cry…
Let me start with one of my all time favorites, and that is a story from Anne Gracie from an anthology I read a couple of years ago, Gifts of the Season. If you asked me about the other two stories in that book, I would have to probably think a bit to recollect them, but if you asked me about Anne's, I'd tell you that I just cried and cried and smiled and smiled, that's how much I loved the story and highly recommend you pick it up.
Gifts of the Season Anthology
BOOK BLURB: The Virtuous Widow by Anne Gracie
Ellie was afraid she had no future. Left to her own devices now that her husband had passed away, she worried for her daughter's welfare as well as her own. But her world changed when a stranger landed on her doorstep.
A Gift Most Rare by Miranda Jarrett
Sara had never thought to see her precious Rev ever again. Yet here he was, come to stay for the holidays in the very home where she was a governess…and bringing up the painful memories of their shared past.
Christmas Charade by Lyn Stone
Beth didn't want a husband. But when she agreed to marry handsome Jack as part of a scheme, she didn't expect to be playing with her heart.
My next two recommends are from Mary Balogh. She never fails to give me one of the most touching Christmas stories and here are the two I think you'll love.
BOOK BLURB: A love that cannot be bought or sold proves to be the greatest gift of all, in this heartwarming classic that demonstrates once again why New York Times bestselling author Mary Balogh is among the most celebrated authors of historical romance.
Weddings are supposed to be joyous occasions—especially when a couple seems as well matched as Randolph Pierce, Earl of Falloden, and his bride-to-be, Eleanor Transome. Ellie brings to the marriage a vast dowry, while Falloden, though distant, is handsome, tremendously desirable, and possessed of a title most young ladies can only dream of sharing.
Yet Ellie is not most young ladies. She knows that she must honor her dear father's dying wish for her to wed the proud earl, but she dreads a lifetime in a union without love—and how can Falloden claim to love her when he married her only for her fortune? As Christmas descends upon the Falloden manor, the warmth of the season may yet melt away the trappings of duty and wealth, leaving behind only a man and a woman destined for each other's arms.
Under the Mistletoe Collection
BOOK BLURB: In this collection of five Christmas-themed stories, beloved author Mary Balogh brings together tales of love, marriage, friendship, loneliness, and healing.
Includes four Balogh holiday classics, The Star of Bethlehem, The Best Gift, Playing House, and No Room At the Inn, as well as A Family Christmas, which is only available in this anthology.
A Christmas Scandal by Jane Goodger
BOOK BLURB: In her latest romance, Jane Goodger weaves an unforgettable tale of a woman who thinks she's lost everything–until a little Christmas magic reunites her with the one man she could never forget. . .
Dashing, debonair, and completely irresistible, Edward Hollings has all of Newport buzzing–and to Maggie Pierce's surprise, she alone has caught his eye. But when the handsome earl returns to England without proposing, a devastated Maggie knows she must forget him. Life only gets worse for Maggie, as all her dreams of happiness and love come crashing down around her. When Maggie receives an invitation to go to England for the Christmas birth of her dear friend's baby, she accepts–vowing to keep her devastating lies and shameful secrets from the one man she has ever loved.
Edward vowed he'd never marry, but he came dangerously close with Maggie. She's beautiful, witty, indescribably desirable–and Edward can't forget her. When Maggie visits mutual friends for Christmas, Edward can't stay away. In fact, he finds himself more attracted to her than ever–a desire fueled even more by Maggie's repeated snubs. With the love he never thought he'd find slipping away, Edward is determined to make Maggie his own, no matter what the cost. . .
The Present by Johanna Lindsey
BOOK BLURB: As the entire Malory family gathers at Haverston to celebrate the season, a mysterious present arrives anonymously. The gift is an old journal — a tender and tempestuous account of the love affair between the second Marquis, Christopher Malory, and a dark gypsy beauty named Anastasia, who seeks a love match with a non-gypsy in order to save herself from a prearranged marriage to a brute.
Though the dashing English lord Anastasia sets her sight upon burns for the exquisite, exotic miss, Christopher could never consent to wed such a lowborn lady. But miracles have been known to happen in this season of peace and giving and love, as two extraordinary people separated by circumstance of birth begin a passionate dance of will and wiles.
And in the miraculous blossoming of a glorious romance at a long ago Christmastime, there are wise and well-learned lessons that will enrich the hearts of the Malory descendants — and, indeed, of everyone who has ever dreamed.
Forbidden Magic by Jo Beverly
BOOK BLURB: Left penniless after her parents' death, Meg Gillingham was in dire straits. Her cruel landlord threatened to turn her and her siblings out of their home by the New Year—unless she surrendered her sister to his lecherous whims. Only a miracle could save her: a magic statue that granted wishes—for a price.
Meg never expected the statue to bring her a marriage proposal, especially from the handsome Earl of Saxonhurst, who needed a bride to keep his fortune. Her heart raced wildly, for she was held spellbound by her desire for this man. But a villain was determined to destroy their union with mistrust, and see them dead. Now Meg had to put her faith in a more powerful magic—the magic of love.
A Wallflower Christmas by Lisa Kleypas
BOOK BLURB: Rafe Bowman has just arrived from America for his arranged meeting with Natalie, the very proper and beautiful daughter of Lady and Lord Blandford. His chiseled good looks and imposing physique are sure to impress the lady-in-waiting, and if it weren't for his shocking American ways and wild reputation, her hand would already be guaranteed. Before the courtship can begin, Rafe realizes he must learn the rules of London society. But when four former Wallflowers try their hand at matchmaking, no one knows what will happen…
Winning a bride turns out to be more complicated than Rafe Bowman anticipated, especially for a man accustomed to getting anything he wants. However, Christmas works in the most unexpected ways, changing a cynic to a romantic…and inspiring passion in the most timid of hearts.
That's just a handful of books that I really enjoyed in the past and I hope you'd give them a try, unless you already read them, in which case I would love to know what you thought of them. I usually look for short Christmas stories, often found in Anthologies at this time of the year. They are the best because they give me the feel for the authors that I haven't read before.
Speaking of, do you like Anthologies and why? If you have any good Christmas recommendations for me please let me know. This month should be fun as we talk Christmas books…and giveaway a few of those…


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No, Virginia, Facebook Doesn't Cause Cancer.
A friend forwarded this link to me about a doc claiming that Facebook causes cancer and other fatal maladies and asked for my doctorly opinion. See here for the article, and below for my response.
A few reactions:
1. People did not stop face-to-face interaction with the creation of Facebook. Duh. That started with the rise of the TV as primary evening activity in the second half of the 20th century, along with the living situation transition away from closely knit family communities to isolated nuclear families living in suburbia. If anything, I believe Facebook has brought people back together into communities, and is used as much for event planning and bridge to connecting with people in person as it is for online interaction.
2. The studies he cites talk about the lack of hormonal response to emailing, which is entirely different from the interactions one has on facebook. Emailing is unidirectional communication, static and out of real time, and private between sender and recipients. Facebook has IM chat, which, for example, I've been using a ton to connect with my awesome cousins Justin and Andrew who are 10 and 12 yrs old in Houston - they're still at an age where it's sort of awkward to have any meaningful sporadic conversations on the phone or email, and I only see them 1-2 times a year - but now through Facebook chat we're getting to know each other and share ideas, and I feel so much more involved in their lives, which is so great. Furthermore, when one posts status updates or to someone's wall, all of your friends see it, so there's this communal communication that is strange but fantastic and weblike. And finally, I bet if they did studies on the hormones and physiologic changes during an intense flirtatious IM chat between two people, it would be less significant than those with face-to-face contact but way more than just emailing or sitting at home by yourself. Well, depending on what you were doing sitting at home by yourself.
3. There is evidence that people who have poor social connectivity are more likely to get cancer, heart disease, recover worse from illness, etc. And there's corresponding evidence showing that people who have amazing social support and communities live longer with cancer, live longer in general, are healthier, etc. But I would argue that Facebook is a form of social support that's just as important as face-to-face contact given our current culture of moving away from our origin communities -- e.g., having facebook as a way to effortlessly and instantly connect with all of my family and best friends from back East was a crucial factor in helping me get through this past year of medical internship, which was otherwise pretty rough on the social front.
So, in summary: yes of course physical social interaction is incredibly important, in part because we are a cuddling species and regular touch is absolutely essential to our health. But, I disagree that Facebook has anything to do with the decrease in face-to-face social interaction of Americans, and I think rectangle time (as in computer, TV, video games) in general is the culprit - I think Facebook is actually a way to counteract the otherwise detrimental effects of too much socially isolated electronic sport.


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Is it bad if I've never heard of this person or this book?
Your books playfully but insistently picture God as Trinity. Why is the Trinity so important to you?Because it grounds both relationship and love. If you have a distinctiveness of persons within the very nature of God, and you have oneness (which is absolutely essential), you have a basis for love inside the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is what Athanasius and Irenaeus and the early church fathers started and ended with. To me, everything relational gets grounded inside of that.
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Analysing voices, speech and audio recordings for investigations and forensic cases
J P French Associates is the country's longest established forensic speech and acoustics laboratory. We are independent experts in forensic voice analysis, transcription, authentication and audio enhancement, as well as providing a number of other forensic speech and audio services. Our experience in producing reports and giving evidence is unrivalled in the UK. In criminal cases, we work for both prosecution and defence. We also provide advice and training services to law enforcement agencies and lawyers across the world.
AHRC grant for 'Voice and Identity' research
Staff at J P French Associates are collaborating with academics from the University of York on a major three year project entitled 'Voice and Identity: Source, Filter, Biometric' after being awarded funding of £892,000 from the UK Arts and Humanities Research Council (AHRC). The project will investigate the performance of a range of methods used in forensic speaker comparison.
Electrical Network Frequency (ENF)
We are the only independent forensic laboratory in the UK to hold a database of fluctuations in the national power supply.
This data is compared with residual low-level mains hum in recordings to determine the date and time a recording was made and to detect editing.
We are now using this new technique in cases to authenticate digital recordings.
30 year anniversary
J P French Associates is celebrating 30 years of providing independent, research-led expertise to the criminal justice systems in the UK and across the world. The company was formed in August 1987 and, across three decades, has grown and formed strong links with the University of York's forensic speech science research centre.


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The Gun That Shot The Kid
Historic Acquisition On Exhibit At Pioneer Museum
The recent Courier photo of Hugh Calderwood (Yesterday's Courier Memories, July 31), early lawman and philosopher, brings to mind a new acquisition of an old gun at the Valley County Pioneer Museum.
Calderwood sold a Luger pistol, purportedly the one that killed The Pigeon-Toed Kid at Bonnabel's Ranch on Poplar Creek near Richland in North Valley County in 1908, to a local young man in the mid-1930s. That family has now placed the Luger on display in the museum's law enforcement exhibit.
Corroborating the story is the transcript of the Coroner's Inquest of the death of the Pigeon-Toed Kid. That transcript, provided by current Valley County Sheriff Glen Meier, is added provenance to the oft-told legend surrounding the death of the young outlaw.
Of especial interest is the transcript itself, replete with the names of the jurors impaneled, the interrogators and the witnesses. Called to testify were those present at Bonnabel's that fateful day in May: Bonnabel, Maxwell, Merch, Baker.
Lawmen who appeared included Sheriff S. C. Small, Deputy Sheriff Sid Bennett, and Hugh Calderwood, who identified himself as a rancher deputized by Sheriff Small.
R.W. Getty, M.D., coroner of Valley County presided over the proceedings, with questions also proffered by Mr. Slattery, evidently an assistant to the coroner. (Mrs. Slattery's Emporium was an early Glasgow business.) The jurors were free to interrogate directly and often did.
The jurors, many still recognizable community names, included W.C. Beede, clerk of District Court; foreman H.D. Coleman (Coleman Hotel); George Klein (Klein Street still exists north of the tracks); C.R. St. Clair, longtime jeweler; dairyman C.S. Hurd; J.E. Dawson (think of the county); and an M.J. Peters.
This document – and others – offers ample substantiation to the story. The curious minded are invited to come and glean even more interesting details – and look at the gun that shot The Kid.


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Mary Grace Integlia (nee Poliero), 89, of Wyndmoor and formerly of Chestnut Hill passed away on November 12, 2011 at Chestnut Hill Hospital with her family by her side. Born October 30, 1922 in Philadelphia, she was the daughter of the late Joseph and Jennie (D'Auria) Poliero. She was the wife of Felix Integlia for 61 years. Mary grew up in Chestnut Hill and was a graduate of Springfield High School. She was employed by the Philadelphia Navy Yard until 1950. While visting family in Italy, she met her husband, Felix. After a long distance courtship, and another visit to Italy, Mary knew that they were meant to be together. Felix moved from Italy to Chestnut Hill and they were married at Our Mother of Consolation Church on November 23, 1950. They moved to Wyndmoor in 1958 and became members of Seven Dolors Church. Mary was a wonderful and devoted wife, homemaker, and mother. She loved to cook and grew many fruits and vegetables in their own garden. She was a seamstress, artist, and avid reader. Mary was a very kind person and was always ready to help her family, friends, and neighbors in any way she could. She will be greatly missed by many people. After her children completed school, she went to work at Killian's Hardware in Chestnut Hill as a bookkeeper. She retired in 1990 to help with the care of her grandchildren and to volunteer at the CCD program at Seven Dolors Church. She and her husband also enjoyed traveling during this time. In addition to her husband, Felix, she is survived by two daughters, Theresa Krauth (William) of Oreland and Diane Gross (Charles) of Chalfont; one son, Joseph Integlia of Hollywood, California; a sister Jeanette Perri (Joseph) of Montgomeryville; three grandchildren, Jason C, Krauth, Erin J. Gross, Charles J. Gross, IV and many beloved nieces and nephews. She was preceded in death by her brother, Charles J. Poliero and her sister Lillian R. Brown. Relatives and friends may call at Seven Dolors Church, 1200 E. Willow Grove Ave., Wyndmoor, Thursday Nov. 17th, 6:30-8:30PM and Friday Nov. 18th at 10am. Funeral Mass 11am. Interment will be in Holy Sepulchre Cemetery, Cheltenham, PA. The family would prefer to have donations made in her memory to The American Diabetes Association, P.O. Box 11454, Alexandria, VA 22312 or www.diabetes.org.
Jacob F. Ruth Funeral Home


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House Cloakroom: July 30 – August 3
Analysis: This week, the House will take up its bill to avoid Taxmageddon. HR 8 would extend the Bush-era rates for a year and provide for a fast track process to consider tax reform next year. The fiscal cliff represents a real threat to our economy. Find more on the tax increase it will impose on your family here.
Major Floor Action:
- HR 8 – Job Protection and Recession Prevention Act of 2012
Major Committee Action:
- The House Armed Services Committee will hold a hearing on the "Impact of Sequestration on Defense."
- The House Small Business Committee will hold a hearing on the "Impact of CFPB in Small Business."
- The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee will hold a hearing on the "Tax Aspects of Affordable Care Act Enforcement."
- The House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee will hold a hearing on the "Review of Amtrak Operations."
- The House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Energy and Power will hold a hearing on "Clean Air Act Implementation."
Senate Cloakroom: July 30 – August 3
Analysis: This week the Senate will begin by considering a circuit court nomination, despite Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's (R-KY) invoking the Thurmond Rule. The Thurmond Rule, which is also known as the Leahy Rule because of past support by Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is a Senate tradition that the chamber stops allowing judges through within six months of a presidential election. Heritage's Brian Darling has a more in-depth explanation here. After voting on the judge, the Senate will return to consideration of the Cybersecurity bill. This bill differs from the House-passed version in that it contains an onerous regulatory scheme. Heritage's Paul Rosenzweig has policy analysis here.
Major Floor Action:
- Nomination of Rovert E. Bacharach, of Oklahoma, to be a United States Circuit Judge for the Tenth Circuit
- S 3414 – CSA2012 (Cybersecurity Bill)
Major Committee Action:
- The Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee will hold a hearing on the "CFPB Report to Congress."
- The Senate Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry Committee will hold a hearing on "MF Global and Accountability in the Futures Market."
- The Senate Foreign Relations Committee will hold a hearing on "Next Steps in Syria."
- The Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee will hold a hearing on the "Taxation of Internet Sales."
- The Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense will hold a markup of the Fiscal 2013 Defense Appropriations bill.
After this week, Congress will leave for the August recess. Congress and the Cloakroom will return in September.


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What is Category Leaders?
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In addition, a product must have at least 20 unique user-submitted product reviews across the three Gartner Digital Markets web properties: softwareadvice.com, capterra.com, and getapp.com, and those reviews must be published within 18 months of the start of the analysis period. The analysis period for the Q1 2019 Category Leaders update is May 9, 2017 to November 9, 2018.
How are the scores calculated?
An app's score is calculated using five unique data points, each scored out of 20, resulting in a total score out of 100. The ranking and scoring methodology ensure complete impartiality and independence from any relationships that GetApp has with app vendors.
User Reviews
Review scores are calculated using weighted reviews collected from GetApp and its sister sites, Software Advice and Capterra. This score is based on average user ratings (on a scale from 1 to 5) of how satisfied users are with a product overall. The scoring includes ratings left within the previous 18-month period; ratings that are more recent are weighted more heavily.
The methodology calculates the percentile ranking for each product relative to all other products in the software category that have qualified for inclusion. That percentile ranking is then translated into a 1 to 20 score.
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Mobile Platforms
Mobile scores are calculated based on the availability of an iOS and Android app. Five points are awarded for the presence of each app, with an additional 10 points awarded for the number and average rating of reviews in both the App Store and Google Play. These review scores are calculated on a scale based on the category average for a maximum of 5 points per platform and an overall maximum score of 20.
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Fifty percent of the score is based on average user ratings on a scale from 1 to 5 of how satisfied users are with the product's functionality. The scoring includes ratings left within the previous 18-month period; ratings that are more recent are weighted more heavily.
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All told, a vendor can receive up to 10 points based on user ratings and up to 10 points based on the features assessment for a total maximum score of 20 for "functionality."
Security scoring is calculated using answers from a vendor-completed survey. The questions in the survey are based on the Cloud Security Alliance self-assessment form as part of the Security, Trust & Assurance Registry, supplemented by the expertise of our security research experts. Each answer in the 16-question survey is assigned a point value. The scoring then calculates the percentile ranking for each product relative to all other products in the software category that have qualified for Category Leaders consideration. That percentile ranking is then translated into a 1 to 20 score.
In the event of a tie, each data point is weighted for importance, with security taking precedent, followed by reviews, integrations, mobile apps, and functionality, respectively.
External Usage Guidelines
Providers must abide by the Category Leaders External Usage Guidelines when referencing Category Leaders content. Except in digital media with character limitations, the following disclaimer MUST appear with any/all Category Leaders reference(s) and graphic use:
GetApp Category Leaders constitute the subjective opinions of individual end-user reviews, ratings, and data applied against a documented methodology; they neither represent the views of, nor constitute an endorsement by, GetApp or its affiliates.


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This is cross-posted from the Disruption Department blog, and while St. Louis focused, I believe the coop can provide some insight into some problems I'm struggling with.
It's interesting to think of community education in light of the issues brought forward by a recent @jessicabock article in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
I've often struggled with the most appropriate ways to approach our service to our community's (communities') families. I think the difference of our approach is that we listen and provide resources and means, rather than articulating some end we want people to meet.
We ascribe no general "reform" answer, but rather seek to help community members provide more human educational opportunities for our cities students, connecting them with the outside world that befits their talents and intellect (rather than continuing to work in zones of isolation and schools of mediocrity).
Charter schools reflect an attitude that more efficient, or more effective schools can overcome the obstacles our community faces, rather than focusing on individual needs and helping people find the resources they need to thrive. With Imagine Schools (a for-profit charter school "district" in St. Louis) closing at the end of this school year, we see the reverse trend we've noticed in St. Louis the past decade. Charter school students searching for St. Louis Public Schools as an answer to meet educational needs.
This is interesting because the charter "districts" have in many ways fragmented the role families have in their own children's education, being that charter schools are less geographically cohesive as neighborhood schools, and less topically cohesive as magnets.
There has to be a more sustainable approach than students being at the fluctuations of what amounts to a "free market" in education. Students are not customers/consumers, they do not deserve volatility. They do not deserve to bear the brunt of other people's risks.
They deserve to take their own risks, and reap the rewards of all the learning that comes along the way.
I would love to hear your thoughts on how we might better meet families needs outside the school building context. How can the Disruption Department truly listen and create environments that are authentic to community needs, rather than just reflecting some idea that some well-meaning person dreamt in their head?
How can we execute this environment in a way that it is flexible to meet changing priorities, but not volatile like recently closed charter schools?


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Butler County (Missouri, USA)
Butler County, Missouri, was the home of a small group of Old Order Amish Mennonites from about 1920 to 1924. About 15 families, consisting of settlers mostly from Reno County, Kansas, including families of Miller, Bontrager, Glick, Amstutz, Troyer, Hostetler, Chupp, and Mast, lived in the area between Poplar Bluff and Harviell. The one and only minister of the group was Chriss Bontrager. The settlement was never very substantial, and in 1924 most of the Amish moved 50 miles (80 km) east to Scott County and to other states. The Amish buried a few of their people in the county, but later took up their remains and shipped them to Kansas.
|John A Hostetler
|Date Published
Cite This Article
MLA style
Hostetler, John A. "Butler County (Missouri, USA)." Global Anabaptist Mennonite Encyclopedia Online. 1953. Web. 20 Apr 2019. http://gameo.org/index.php?title=Butler_County_(Missouri,_USA)&oldid=91309.
APA style
Hostetler, John A. (1953). Butler County (Missouri, USA). Global Anabaptist Mennonite Encyclopedia Online. Retrieved 20 April 2019, from http://gameo.org/index.php?title=Butler_County_(Missouri,_USA)&oldid=91309.
Adapted by permission of Herald Press, Harrisonburg, Virginia, from Mennonite Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, p. 486. All rights reserved.
©1996-2019 by the Global Anabaptist Mennonite Encyclopedia Online. All rights reserved.


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The National LGBTQ Task Force Action Fund builds the grassroots political power of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. The Task Force Action Fund does this through direct and grassroots lobbying to defeat anti-LGBT ballot initiatives and legislation, and works to pass pro-LGBT legislation and other progressive initiatives. The Task Force Action Fund is a 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation incorporated in New York. Contributions to the Task Force Action Fund are not tax-deductible.If you decide to make a gift of $1500 or more, you become a member of our Leadership Council.You can make a tax-deductible contribution to support the work of the The National LGBTQ Task Force, by clicking here.
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