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1850 sq. ft. | 3 Bedroom | 2 Bath | Sleeps 6
- Panoramic, 180 degree Ocean Views
- Fully equipped Gourmet Kitchen
- Beautiful Teak Furniture, Window Coverings, & Linens
- Cable TV in 2 Rooms
- Unlimited, Free Telephone Calls within Hawaii, the Continental U.S. & U.S. Territories
- Oceanfront
- Ocean View
- Oceanfront Resort
- Air Conditioning — Fee
- Kitchen - Full
- Laundry - In Unit
- Pool - Shared
- Hot Tub - Shared
- Jetted Tub in Bath
- Parking - Free
- King Bed — Master Bedroom
- Twin/Single Bed (4) — 2 in Second Bedroom (Convertable to King) and 2 in Loft
- Internet - Wireless [Free]
- Telephone
- Free Local Calls
- Beach - 1 Min Walk
- Snorkeling - 1 Min Walk
- Tennis Courts
- Surfing - Nearby
- Golfing Nearby
Entry Area
- Slate Floors
- Tropical Entry
- Spectacular Ocean/Pool/Sunset Views (Seasonal)
- Spectacular Ocean/Pool/Golf Course/Sunset Views
Living Room
- Designer Sofa with Love Seat
- Ceiling Fan
- 2 End Tables & Lamps
- Stereo w/ Ipod Dock
- 42" Flat Screen TV/Cable/DVD
- Slate Floors
- Pool, Ocean & Sunset Views
- Slate Floors
- Granite Countertops
- Frigidaire Refrigerator/Freezer
- Jenaire Range
- GE Profile Microwave
- Frigidaire Dishwasher
- Garbage Disposal
- Dishware - Service for 12
- Cookware
- Full Glassware - Service for 12
- Extensive Kitchen Utensils, Bakeware, Serveware
- Toaster
- Blender/Mixer
- Coffee Maker
- Cleaning Supplies
Dining Area
- Beautiful Designer Dining Set - Seats 6 Persons
- Slate Floors
- Pool & Ocean View with Gorgeous Sunsets (Seasonal)
- Full Size Stacked Washer/Dryer
- Laundry Supplies
- Iron & Ironing Board
Linen & Utility Closet
- Beach Towels
- Full Bath Towel Sets for 6 persons
- Broom, Dustpan, Mop & Cleaning Supplies
Master Bedroom
- California King-Size High Quality Serta Bed & Mattress Set
- High Quality Berber Carpet
- Large 6-Drawer Dresser
- Two Bedside Night Stands
- Two Reading Lamps
- 32 TV/Cable TV
- Clock-Radio
- Ceiling Fan
- High Quality Bedding
- Walk-in Closet
Master Bathroom
- Dual Vanity Sinks
- Walk-In Shower
- Soaking Spa Tub
- Private Lavatory
- Tile Floors & Shower
- Luxurious Turkish Spa Towels
- Hair Blow Dryer
Second Bedroom
- Two Twin beds can be converted to King
- Two Bedside Night Stands with Lamps
- High Quality Berber Carpet
- 6 Drawer Dresser
- Clock Radio
- Ceiling Fan
- Quality Bedding
- Large Closet
Second Bathroom
- Shower
- Slate Floor & Shower
- Granite Countertop
- Luxurious Turkish Spa Towels
Third Bedroom
- Full-Size Futon
- Two End Tables with Lamps
- Clock Radio
- Ceiling Fan
- Quality Bedding
- Large Closet
- Spacious 3 Bedroom 2 Bathroom
- 1800+ Square Feet of Living Space
- Open Beam Ceiling
- West End of Resort
- Sunset Views
- Quick access to Restaurant
June family visit
Reviewed by Scott
Date 06/16/2019
Loved the condo. The view over the pool and ocean was AWESOME. We loved sitting on the lanai over coffee and wine and enjoying the view.
The condo complex is quiet The condo is nicely appointed and the kitchen was fully furnished with pots and pans etc. The bathroom is wonderful , very large and a very large dual shower. Will definitely recommend it to family and friends
nice condo for vacation
Reviewed by Calvin
Date 02/13/2019
we stayed here during the Chinese New Year holiday for 5 nights. The condo is in a very nice community, everybody we're very nice and friendly, also very convenient to a small shopping center, around half mile. inside, it's very clean, only thing we bought was towels from local grocery store. another thing was we couldn't figure out how to find the TV channels and the Wifi router needs to restart frequently. my son likes this place very much, wanted to stay more days :-)
Great time at great condo
Reviewed by Edward
Date 12/14/2018
My whole family loved our stay at Kanaloa at Kona, Condo #2403. The Condo is very nice and very well equipped with everything you could possibly need for cooking and a fun day at the beach. The views from the lanai with crashing waves on the lava beach are stunning. The master bedroom and bath are very spacious with walk in closet, large dual shower, dual vanities, and washer and dryer. The complex is beautiful, safe, and peaceful.I would stay here again if we come back to the Kona.
Beautiful Unit with a Fantastic View
Reviewed by KAB
Date 07/14/2018
This condo is absolutely beautiful! The kitchen is well stocked with everything you could ever need. We really enjoyed our time on the balcony watching the ocean crash into the black volcanic rocks. We also enjoyed the walks along the rocks as well. This unit overlooks the pool and we were a little worried about pool noise but the pool hours allow for quiet time. There is a nice big grill located by the pool that many guests use. The grill, grounds, pool and unit are well cared for at all times. There is also a grocery store very nearby which was convenient to stock the kitchen. There were plenty of bath towels and pool towels were provided as well. We would stay here again if we ever return to the Big Island!
Spring Break in Kona
Reviewed by Leigh-Ann
Date 04/06/2018
We recently had a two week stay in Kona. As we had never been to the Island, we were unsure as to what area /complex etc. to stay at. I chose unit 2403 at Kanaloa based on proximity to Ocean view/pool/BBQ and size and layout of unit.Overall, we found this unit to be ok. The plus factors were the view of the Ocean, pool and BBQ very close and the overall spaciousness of the unit.The negatives were old and worn out Beach equipment which we had to supplement with a new boogie board and TB umbrella. We also found the unit older/outdated (especially the living room furniture and kitchen cabinets and some kitchen equipment, worn staircase carpet) and the master shower was unsightly (and partly unusable) due to exposed plumbing from a repair that could not get finished due to back to back rentals. The TV in the living room was not operational, but this wasn't a big deal as we weren't in Hawaii for TV. (After a couple of days you forget about all that when you enjoy a lovely sunset on the lanai :))Something to consider seriously if you are a light sleeper, is that due to the design of the louvered windows, it tends to allow more noise from the outside... This is important to know if you are considering not having Air Conditioning as you will need these to be wide open and therefore a lot more noise in the evening and especially in the morning we be noticeable...We had purchased Air Conditioning and kept the louvered windows closed all the time, but still found that the noise from outside (and the unit below) was very noticeable. Likewise, you could hear my husband and or kids in the bathroom etc.. from the pathway outside too.The complex is very nice, with 3 pools, tennis courts etc.. The grounds are lovely and lush.The proximity to the beaches we liked (up the Kohala /Waikaloa /Mauna Kea coast) were very far away (took almost an hour each way to get to). The snorkeling (a few minutes drive away) was excellent (very very crowded, but fantastic nonetheless). The shopping plaza was convenient too (KTA supermarket, subway, etc.) Overall, if we ever return to the Big Island, we will likely stay up in Mauna Lani or Waikaloa resorts as they were situated in the area we enjoyed most. If you are going to stay in the Kona area, this complex is nice, and the Unit is decent too..
Beautiful view
Reviewed by Michelle
Date 03/02/2018
My friends and I spent a glorious week in this beautiful condo. The location was perfect, and best of all was watching the whales go by from the lanai. We especially loved the Oceanside pool and hot tub. The staff was friendly, and the grounds clean and lovely to walk around.
Reviewed by Tracey
Date 07/18/2017
The condo was very large and updated. The furniture was very comfortable for the four adults staying there which is what we look for. The view was spectacular and the path walking along the lava beach was well maintained. It was fun watching the fishermen and the adult only pool was appreciated. Air conditioning is recommended if anyone will be sleeping in the loft. The lanai was large and great for views and the water toys were a bonus. Will definitely stay again.
Weekend @ Kanaloa
Reviewed by Chris
Date 03/11/2017
Aloha! Great stay...the property was clean. Fantastic view of the ocean. Was not aware the assigned parking was taken, however lots of other parking. The property caretaker was very friendly and helpful. I will rent this property again for my next visit. Mahalo.
mini Vacation
Reviewed by Roxann
Date 08/30/2016
This unit was awesome close to the ocean pool and everything we needed as far as utensils was all there in the unit. We always stay at the kanaloa at kona at least twice a year but this unit was the best yet. Security there was really bad this one guy his name is George very very bad he has no self respect for others and is rude if I was management I would of get rid of this guy along time ago. Besides that our mini Vacation was awesome. Mahalo
Excellent Stay
Reviewed by Ramona
Date 02/20/2016
Would recommend this suite for your stay in Kona, it has all the amenities you need for your stay. The proximity to the grocery store, beautiful walks, pool, etc., we were glad we booked this suite this time. We loved the view from the balcony, and apart from some small inconveniences, our stay was definitely memorable and without problems!
Christmas stay at Kanaloa 2403
Reviewed by Bette
Date 01/07/2016
Nice stay over the holidays. Great weather every day. View is outstanding of Pacific and whales. Palm tree could use some trimming to make it even better. Ocean pool is really convenient for the kids. Nicely furnished and equipped condo. Screen door to lanai could use replacement or repair. Thanks for the opportunity to spend holidays in Kona.
Perfect condo
Reviewed by Lisa
Date 12/03/2015
This condo was absolutely perfect! The beds were very comfortable. The kitchen was completely stocked with everything we needed. The condo had 2 coolers, chairs, umbrella, snorkel gear, we could take to the beach. The pools were amazing and the view from the balcony is priceless. We stayed here with our family and had an amazing time. Definitely five stars.
Vacation get away
Reviewed by Larry
Date 08/20/2015
Was a great vacation. The unit was totally upgraded up to and including the little things like coffee maker, etc. Very well maintained. Great location with nice ocean view from the balcony. Upper unit so you didn't have to worry about guest above you. All you needed to enjoy your vacation was your suitcase and your food, everything else was there. Wifi was a plus as it enabled us and the kids to stay connected. It was a challenge however working with the Time Warner programing in the living room. The TV's in the bedrooms worked great, just didn't have the channels you get in the living room, which was fine.
Very comfortable
Reviewed by Martin M
Date 03/14/2015
First off the Kanaloa complex is in a great location and is perfectly maintained. It's location on the water is unusual in Kona and it is very convenient to Keauhou Shopping center with Restuarants, Supermarket, Longs, shopping and movies. Unit 2403 is well located with beautiful ocean views and convenient to the Ocean Pool. (The down side to this is it can be noisy) It is well appointed and functionally set up for comfort and convienece. Bathrooms are obviously new and beautiful. 2 out of 3 TV's are flat screen and have a great selection of channels including Apple TV in the Living Room. WiFi works great.
don't stay here
Reviewed by rickyvr1
Date 02/25/2015
We arrived shower not working, called many times to the owner no response. At the end of our vacation washing machine broke no response from owner. Have not received our deposit back even though we only had one shower that worked for 32 days that we paid to stay there.
Manager Response
It is unfortunate that we were unable to make this guest happy. All of our reviews except this one are 4 and mostly 5 stars.
Upon reporting shower problems maintenance went three times to the unit. The first two times the occupants would not allow entry, sited inconvenient time. Third time maintenance found no problems with the shower, but were unable to discuss the problem with occupants as they were not present.
Maintenance did attempt to gain entry to unit as water was dripping into the unit below from the washing machine. Occupants attempted to disallow entry, and property damage was occurring, we insisted. Occupants would not allow repairs to be made. They were made after occupants checked out.
Finally, Aloha Condos does not charge deposits to renters cards. A hold is made and released after a set period. An actual charge would never show on a statement. No refund is due, as no charge was made. The renter did not pay any deposit.
Perfect View, Great Furnishings, a truly luxury condo!
Reviewed by champHouston
Date 09/21/2014
This condo was above expectations as far as furnishings go. Lovely bedding and a huge master bathroom.Unfortunately the hot water tank leaked whilst there but the owner was very helpful and offered to move us.The view was delightful and we enjoyed the use of all the beach equipment and coolers etc .Definitely to be recommended.
Loved this place!
Reviewed by Gabe_Oak365
Date 07/28/2014
Our family of 5 stayed at this condo. We all loved it. Everyone had their own beds. The condo was spacious, modern and clean. The location was great. Close to everything that Kona has to offer. It was easy getting in and out of the condo. Great view of the ocean. We loved sitting out on the balcony to have our meals. Air conditioner worked well. Every appliance you can think of was provided. We also made use of the snorkel gear and boogie boards as well as the beach towels. If we every came back to the Big Island, we would definitely stay here again.
practically perfect in every way
Reviewed by Terry
Date 01/21/2014
The location of Condo 2403 is perfect. The lanai overlooks the pool and the ocean. On the second floor, we could watch the boats going by searching for dolphins. In the evening, we could see the lights on the boats looking for manta rays. The condo was luxurious, comfortable, met all our needs. The condo is located a half mile from a shopping center with a grocery store and numerous small restaurants. You can catch the shuttle there to go to beaches or the downtown area. Some of our favorite time was spent at the pool adjacent to our condo. A big thank you to the owners!
Condo has everything you'll need for your stay and the view is w
Reviewed by A-night-abroad
Date 11/17/2013
Condo 2403 is wonderful with many sets of snorkeling gear, beach chairs/blankets/mats, coolers, boogie boards - everything you'll need for your beach trips! There is in-suite laundry, internet, air conditioning, a dishwasher - you just need to bring yourselves. The views from the lanai on the 3rd floor let you see the beautiful Kona sunsets and dolphins jumping in the mornings. The oceanside pool is right outside your door (it can be a bit loud at times when there are children playing in the pool during the day - but it's not too bad). This unit is in a perfect location within the condo complex which has three pools, tennis courts, Bbq's. The golf course is currently under renovations until Jan. 2014. We loved unit 2403 and Kanaloa at Kona condos and can't wait to return to this unit.
Awesome Place to Rent!
Reviewed by Kevin
Date 06/02/2013
Check in was easy and painless...condo was very clean and Beautiful with great outside area with view of ocean...condo had alot of nice amenities that made stay even more enjoyable...would definitely recommend this condo to anyone who wants a great deal for a Great place to stay!!!
great condo
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 05/13/2013
wonderfull spacious 3 bedrooms condo, very well equiped, had everything you needed and more (kitchen accessories even spices and condiments ,beach & snorkeling equipments) And what a beautiful view from the lanai where we took our breakfast each morning. The unit is convenient with the pools, BBQ,tennis court. Would definity recommend this condo for anyone visiting Big Island.
Everything you need
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 03/15/2013
Condo was excellent - lots of room, great facilities and everything was provided: from beach towels and boogie boards, snorkelling equipment to laundry detergent. The owners (unlike all too many) realise that customers are flying in and cannot pack all of this equipment themselves; plus it made the price even more reasonable as it was not necessary to hire the equipment.
The views were beautiful.
The only thing that was not so great was that the bed in the master bedroom was soft - a personal preference but there it is.
Reviewed by R&A
Date 02/24/2013
Condo 2403 was wonderful. View was amazing. Plenty of dishes, cookware and cutlery. Every appliance worked great. Condo is spacious and well appointed. We loved everything about it. We had most of our meals on the lanai and watched the waves of the ocean. You would enjoy your vacation in this condo. Close to the pool and BBQ. It is upstairs so not suitable if you can't do stairs.
Everything you need and great views
Reviewed by Dcrask
Date 01/22/2013
We very much enjoyed our stay in your condo. The decor was very tasteful and the unit is equipped with everything we needed. The master suite is especially spacious and great. All if the tech and electronic options to keep everyone connected and happy as if the views weren't enough to keep us focused on staying unconnected. Thanks for all of your thought that went into anticipating what a renter would need and providing it.
A deluxe home away from home!
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 01/04/2013
What a fantastic place to stay! Our family came over to get married and this was our "home base" Everything we needed was here! We were especially impressed with the little touches for children! We can't wait to return!
wow we will be back...totally loved this condo
Reviewed by Rob, Denise, Michael and Maddie
Date 06/01/2012
This condo by far is our best choice. We have stayed in three others here and by far this place was awesome.We have been to every island and this condo unit is our number one choice.It has everything you need . The kitchen was well stocked the only thing to buy is whatever you are going to eat.The kitchen had a great supply of condiments and spices already.Never used the beautiful dining table we ended up eating at the big table on the deck every night enjoying the beautiful view.The master bathroom and bedroom were another plus..The only thing i would suggest is maybe a few more pool towels.I know if we come back to kona this will be our first choice..I still cant believe how beautful this place was thank you so much for the week we had there it really wasnt long enough..
Paradise Found
Reviewed by Charlee011
Date 03/06/2012
The condo is in a great location within the resort which is close to many amenities. Access to parking, pool/hot tub, and BBQ is very convenient. The ocean view is extraordinary. The condo is extensively equipped with everything one could possibly need, beautifully furnished and very comfortable. Staff were very friendly. Charles handled the reservations and details very efficiently. The "Red Book" with instructions and suggestions was most helpful. Free Wifi was an added bonus. This place truly is a paradise and made this vacation with our friends so memorable.
Reviewed by Susan
Date 02/14/2012
The condo was exactly as described and pictured in the photos! It is very spacious and nicely appointed. The owners have left nothing out that you could possibly need during your stay. The view from the lanai is beautiful and we enjoyed watching and listening to the surf crash against the rocks. We made good use of the BBQ, the completely stocked kitchen, and the pool area. Sta Grocery store is very close (we walked) so you can get fresh food for your stay. It's also just a short drive to Kona town which has lots of restaurants and shopping. There are tons of beaches in any direction where you can enjoy the soft sand and play in the waves. We went out on the Bite Me 3 fishing charter-very fun-I caught a huge Mahimahi (very tasty on the grill!). The drive up to the volcano was interesting and informative-also recommended.We'll definitely be back to the Big Island and this condo!
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 01/15/2012
It was my husband and I last weekend in Hawaii visiting family, we thought it would be fun to rent a condo for the family as the place where we can hangout. I it was such a good idea because everyone enjoyed and we all now decided it would become a new family tradition,we loved it so much we plan and hope to get this place every year my husband go and visit family in kona.
A truly fabulous condo with a big lanai overlooking the ocean
Reviewed by Sally and Mick
Date 09/27/2011
We had a fabulous stay. Everything about the condo is top-notch, including the location overlooking the pool and the ocean, the ease of reservation, the amenities. We can't say enough about how much we enjoyed our stay. So nice to be able to cook big meals and have all the pots/casseroles/utensils/spices etc. Not to mention the beach towels, mats, coolers, snorkel gear, binoculars, etc. The resort is great, too, with lovely grounds, pools, tennis courts, hot tubs, lovely landscaping. We will be back!!
Absolutely incredible!
Reviewed by Juls082
Date 08/19/2011
This condo is incredible. We were a group of 4 adults and 1 baby (10 months), and the condo couldn't have been more ideal. We were all surprised that it was as nice (if not nicer!!) than the website pictures show. It was immaculately clean, and the kitchen was wonderfully stocked with any cooking utensil you could ever use, plus a lot of pantry "basics" (olive oil, spices, condiments, etc). The master bed and bathrooms were gorgeous, and the second bedroom is also very nice (though smaller with a bathroom next door). The condo was stocked with everything we needed while visiting - including snorkeling gear, beach umbrellas (which as it turns out are 100% necessary when visiting the beaches in the summer - it gets HOT and there is very little shade!!), binoculars, several large beach towels, beach chairs, playing cards, board games, DVDs and Bluerays, the list goes on and on. The lanai is absolutely perfect, and we ate about 95% of our meals outside while enjoying the views and sounds of the ocean. There are a few BBQs on the property (one right below the condo), and we did not have any problems with them being busy on any of the 3 or 4 times we wanted to BBQ. Overall, this was an incredible place to stay and if we ever returned to Kona we wouldn't hesitate to stay here again.
Paradise Found
Reviewed by John and Family
Date 06/10/2011
It's difficult to add something new to the accolades already posted. My only advise would be to open up to the sights and sounds that Hawaii has to offer. Arise each morning to the sounds of the birds. Go out to the Lanai and just look, listen and feel all that is taking place around you. See if you agree with me, when I say - Paradise Found.
Ordinary but miracles
Reviewed by Toshi
Date 05/06/2011
In the morning, walked around to breathe fresh air with flower fragrance and to say "good morning" to people and small birds just passing, and took breakfast with looking at palm-leaves flowing in the breeze. All happened there are ordinary but nothing to be compared like miracles. We are now looking for the next chance to stay, hope once a year going forward. Mahalo!
Great condo! Can't wait to go back!
Reviewed by KenO
Date 04/20/2011
We thoroughly enjoyed our stay at Kanaloa. The condo was beautifully remodeled, the kitchen was well equipped, and the pool and beach toys were great! Our kids especially loved the boogie boards and sand toys.
We traveled with two kids, ages 5 and 3. They loved having the space to run around and play.
The view from the deck was fantastic. We ate all of our meals out there!
The unit is very convenient to the pools, tennis courts, and BBQ. The ocean pool was a couple of degrees cooler than we would have liked, but still warm enough to play in. The other pool was a bit warmer. We never tried the adult pool.
The grounds at Kanaloa are very nice with nicely maintained tropical vegetation.
The location is convenient to shopping and beaches, and only a few miles from the heart of Kailua/Kona.
I hope we can visit again in the future. I would definitely stay in this unit again.
Unit 2403 at Kanaloa at Kona is a gem.
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 04/02/2011
This is simply a lovely place to stay. We vacationed for eight nights with family, four adults and two children, and found the condo furnished beyond our expectations. See what is provided in the online listing. The beds were comfortable. Everything was clean. The kitchen was great with more than ample glasses, cooking utensils, plates, detergent and other helpful items. The washer and dryer were new. The solid wood table with matching chairs made eating on the lanai a delight. Placemats were provided. The children loved the swimming pools and the snorkeling at the nearby beach. We could hear the surf and had a great view of the ocean from the lanai.We needed to adjust to the solar heated water, which is the way that most water should be heated. I want to thank the owers for having a solar water heating system. In the travel book, "Hawaii: The Big Island" by andrew Doughty gave Kanaloa at Kona a gem rating. I agree, it is a gem.
Great time
Reviewed by Randy
Date 04/01/2011
The condo was in great condition. The only problem we had was that the Hot water timer was out of sink with the time of day so we had to turn it off to get hot water in the mornings. Otherwise only good things to say. Got to see whales with the binoculars off the lanai.
Our two weeks in heaven
Reviewed by The 5 Happy Visitors
Date 01/01/2011
This condo really exceeded our expectations. It simply had everything; amazing view, newly refurbished pool and hot tub steps away, fabulous ocean view, sunset view and peace and quiet. We practically lived on the lanai and ate every meal there.The grounds and pool were kept scrupulously clean everyday. The kitchen was loaded with every sort of equipment, pots, pans, casserole dishes and even condiments. For a Canadian, the only thing missing was a tea pot! The beds were comfortable, the linens were pure cotton, the fans kept the rooms cool. We were grateful for an abundance of beach towels, mats, coolers to take to the beach, ice machine in the fridge, even flippers and beach shoes. When one of us couldn't find their passport and keys, one of the security came up and went over every suitcase until they found it in a underlying hidden pocket which we missed. Crisis averted! We loved our stay so much that we've gone back to the website just to look wistfully at the photos of "our rooms" in condo 2403 and Kanaloa. We'll be back next year to stay there again.
fabuloso! :-)
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 12/17/2010
It really was lovely! Very comfortable. It had everything you'd want from cards and games to beach towels, boogie boards and ketchup, binoculars & blender to hair dryers. I was wonderful. I grew up in Hawaii so I am used to having open windows and fans to keep cool. I was surprised how warm it was in December, so if you are not used to it, I would suggest getting the a/c. It was really wonderful...
Our stay was simply amazing!
Reviewed by The DeSarro Family
Date 10/28/2010
The condo exceeded our expectations! It was so spacious and comfortable and had everything we needed! It truly felt like home. The view from the lanai was spectacular and the location was great! We will definitely be returning next year and will absolutely stay at condo 2403. Thanks for a wonderful experience!
Great Location! Great Time!
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 08/12/2010
Everything was great about our stay. The location and view were wonderful, and it was nice to be away from the downtown Kona crowds. Especially nice to be minutes away from great snorkeling at Kahalu'u!!! The condo had all the supplies we needed, complete with beach gear like boogie boards and straw mats. The beds were very comfortable, and the common area was conducive to a nice family gathering.
The downside was the water temperature. We took many lukewarm, if not cold, showers. On the other side, sometimes the water was too hot, and the coldest we could get the water was "warm". It would have been nice to have written instructions regarding how to manage the hot water heater, and also how to use the temperature controls in the master shower (very confusing!). If you have a large group of people, all of whom would like a tolerable shower at the end of a long day, this can be very frustrating.
I definitely would not let the water situation keep you away, because that is really the only downside, and is probably something that can be fixed. It's just something to keep in mind.
Unbelievable condo in a fantastic location
Reviewed by MikeB
Date 07/16/2010
This condo was absolutely fabulous. Hands down, the best thing about this condo was the 'pay it forward' atmosphere. We cooked/Bbq'd the whole week because the kitchen had *everything*...and not just the normal plates, pots, pans, but spices, condiments, you name it. Coolers and beach maters were available for beach trips; flashlights for lava tube exploring; complete snorkeling sets outfitted the whole family; binoculars were great for just sitting on the lanai watching the ocean activities.
Beyond that, the condo is elegantly and tastefully furnished, well-maintained, and in a fantastic, lush-landscaped location with easy access to the community pools and shops just up the street. We found it to be well located to everything we wanted to do and a great home-base.
Finally, reserving the condo and use of the site was easy and convenient and Charles' thoroughness and follow-up was unparalleled.
When we hit the big island again, this is the only condo we'll even consider.
Happy but disappointed
Reviewed by spectrum360
Date 06/27/2010
The condo was beautiful and looked exactly like it was pictured on the web site. It was well stocked with everything from cooking supplies to Dvds to boogie boards and snorkeling gear. The location of the condo was alright, but I would recommend a place further north. It took over an hour to get to the beautiful white sand beaches such as Hapuna Beach and Mauna Kea Beach. We loved the comfort of the condo but we were sorely dissapointed that we were not informed that the main pool out front of the condo was closed for repairs and had been for some time.
Spectacular and relaxing vacation!
Reviewed by Tara & Keith Gipp
Date 05/27/2010
This is our second time staying in this unit and we really love it. The location is fantastic! The staff is very friendly and the grounds are beautiful. We are already planning our return visit in 2012 with our son and we can't wait!
Fantastic location, and wonderful lodging all for a reasonable p
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 05/07/2010
We had a great 3 day experience in Kona this April and a great portion of it was due to the wonderful stay at this lodge. The owner has thought of everything, and it was fantastic to have a book of reviews of the restaurants in the area. We followed their reviews religiously and they didn't steer us wrong once, I would highly recommend doing likewise. As far as the lodging itself it is 20 minutes away from several of the hotspots on Kona, its beautiful, decorated tastefully and sits right on the beach. What more could you ask for? If I go to Kona again, I will definitely be staying here again!
It was a wonderful experience except for one problem!
Reviewed by Debbo
Date 04/22/2010
The service Charles provided in arranging our stay was terrific. He was very accomodating and quick to respond to my emails. The home was beautiful and had so many extras to enjoy such as beach chairs, beach towels, binoculars, etc. It made our experience so easy and pleasurable. The view and sound of the surf off of the lanai were breathtaking. We would definitely stay there again and recommend it to all our family and friends. The only problem we had was that they were resurfacing the spa and grounds right below the lanai. We had to listen to the jackhammers and compressor, as well as the workers yelling back and forth, from early morning to late afternoon. It made thinking or talking impossible! We were forced to leave even when we would have liked to enjoy the view and peace of the home. It also made giving the baby a nap impossible. I know this kind of work must be done but I wish we had known it was going to be happening during our stay so that we could have had the option to choose another condo. It was difficult with 2 small children and all the disruptive noise. Aside from that, everything was beautiful and the home warm and inviting. I'm sorry to even have to complain about anything but I figured honesty is best!
Best Vacaton ever!!!!
Reviewed by Cheryll
Date 05/10/2009
....Just got back and cannot wait to tell you what a fabulous time we had at the Condo (# 2403).....I was looking for a review page where I could thank you for a really top notch vacation not only because of the unbelievable views from our lanai, but also for the excellent accommodations and a wonderful "Red Book" with detailed information on restaurants, things to see, and step by step guide to all the conveniences that make for a truly relaxing and enjoyable vacation!! I am so glad that this venue is available for those of us who just want to share a really awesome experience.
Everything we needed (or thought we would have to go out and get) were at our fingertips and convenience. There was nothing we ran out of that was not provided for. A lot of thought was put into making this a (gorgeous) home away from home, and that, in my estimation, is definitely the earmark of a well managed enterprise.
Please make sure that the word gets out so that no one misses out on a 5 star vacation!!!
Cheryll Neese
Upscale condo with a view!
Reviewed by carson
Date 04/23/2009
Six ladies spent the last three nights of an eight night stay in the Kona area at this nicely appointed condo. We were lucky to find something available at the last minute and were very pleased with the ammenities, the complex, and the view from the lanai. The housekeeper was very helpful in getting us into the condo early. We enjoyed ourselves and wished we could have stayed longer. Our only recommendation is that renters be aware that the third bedroom is indeed only a loft with a full size futon for a bed. We made it work for us but a "real bed" would make the condo perfect for 5-6 adults. We would definitely recommend this unit as well as the complex.
Perfectly outfitted and located!
Reviewed by A FlipKey verified reviewer
Date 04/05/2009
The condo was gorgeous and conveniently located for getting supplies/groceries at the shopping center, as well as visiting beaches and other attractions. The space was absolutely perfect for our family vacation. We had plenty of room for 6 adults and a little tyke. The lanai with the large dining table allowed us all to dine outside together. The condo was well equipped right down to the kitchen amenities, boogie boards and snorkel masks. It was decorated nicely and very comfortable. It was easy to make reservations online and communicate with the owner by phone and email to finalize arrangements. Beth also helped ensure everything was perfect for us and was available to answer questions of us while on island. Thanks for providing the perfect accommodations for us!
Have Questions?
Owner/Manager: Charles Horton
Phone: (214) 513-2190
Email: Click here to send email
Tax ID: TA-142-051-3280-01


text:
nspurloc necesitaba un nuevo diseño de logotipo y lanzó un concurso de diseño en 99designs.
Un ganador ha sido elegido entre 220 diseños de 50 diseñadores freelance.
doyou IT (no space between doyou, but there is a space between doyou and IT)
We will be servicing small businesses and helping with ALL of their technology needs. To be exact; will maintain, setup, and sell all of the computers, networks, hardware, and software that most small businesses use. Basically a one-stop-shop for anything to do with technology when it comes to small businesses.
Our audience is small and medium businesses in the area, but don't want to focus on the geographics to allow for future expansion.
Very simple I NEED your help!!!
Company name is: doyou IT
Colors: Not really attached to any colors YET...I'm thinking of the following combinations, but again I'm VERY OPEN-MINDED. Maybe: 1) red, orange, black and grays, 2)blue orange gray, 3) yellow black and gray...again very open!
1) Should be professional, not childish since it will cater to business owners and not residential.
2) I thought about maybe playing on people's fear of computers/IT, but putting a carrot and adjectives demonstrating that (ex. doyou ^fear,hate,need,want IT ?)..but really not sure
3) Would prefer a modern design.
4) If you can think of a way to incorporate computer/network/IT image to logo that MIGHT work for me, but not sure.
5) Ask for feedback and I will give it QUICKLY!
FINAL format needed:
- Adobe Illustrator in CMYK color space
- MUST BE layered so background can be dropped/merged if needed
- At least 300 DPI
Further incentive: Final designer choosen will also work with us on stationery, business cards, etc in the VERY near future (next week)
Descubre cómo funciona un concurso de diseño u obtén más información sobre nuestros servicios de diseño de logo.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Here's Katie Holmes, attending the Lexus Short Films 'Life is Amazing' New York premiere in head-to-toe Michael Kors, including the Michael Kors Avra Paisley Pumps. Katie is practically drowning in all that volume, and I do not like this outfit one bit, least of all those pumps. If you feel differently, however, you can find them for $350 at Neiman Marcus.
The Michael Kors brand has produced some great, comparatively affordable bags in the last few years, but I can't say I particularly care for any of MK's apparel or shoes. The brand frequently dresses celebs in beautiful formalwear for the red carpet, but I think its ready-to-wear line is rather cheap-looking and severely overpriced. If you'd like to see some of Katie's far, far better fashion ensembles, you can check out "The Many Bags of Katie Holmes" on PurseBlog.


text:
Sorry for taking so long to get back.
If you have poor data and only poor data, you must of course try to get something out of them--provided you have nothing better to do (i.e., can't get more funding to do a better experiment, or can't go back in time to redo measurements). Every geoscientist who works extensively with real Earth measurements has run into the necessity of trying to make the best possible use of flawed data. The poor quality is what makes data adjustments necessary, and the best way to make these adjustments is often uncertain and involves the interpreter's subjective judgment.
Actually, seismic static corrections, if done competently, are among the least questionable kinds of adjustments, so they're a special case. A kind of adjustment closer to what I imagine is the kind that climate scientists must make would be well log adjustments. For example, when you record rock velocity and density in a well, you know there should be a close relationship between the quantities measured. If instead you find that one record seems to be shifted by a constant amount relative to the other, you'd naturally apply a shift to bring them into alignment. But exactly how you do the shift can affect the overall data interpretation.
Every such subjective correction, though reasonable (if done ethically and within accepted standards), introduces interpreter bias and hence adds uncertainty to the final data interpretation. One thing Glenn seems to have shown is that some of the climate scientists' measurements were done with such callous disregard for good experimental practice that the validity of any subsequently applied subjective correction must be in doubt.
So yes, different scientists will have different data rejection threshholds. I set quite high standards in my own work, and the company one way or another was willing to pay. The worst standards I witnessed in my career were those of a few national lab and university scientists. They were unfortunately stuck with trying to make silk purses out of sow's ears (to coin a phrase), and they called on all sorts of "sophisticated" data processing to extract something from practically nothing. Their end products did not inspire confidence.
In such cases of terrible data, were their interpretation efforts of any value at all? IMO--in the few cases I'm thinking of--they were of no scientific value. They had to do the work, however, because they'd been given the funds. For them to just give up would possibly have precluded further funding.
How much climate data is of this inferior sort? Judging from Glenn's comments, probably a lot. And much of it was recorded long before anyone thought it might be used for really important stuff like controlling human economies and behavior en masse.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Powers<mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com>
To: Don Winterstein<mailto:email@example.com>
Cc: asa<mailto:email@example.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Data doesn't support global warming
I think the difference, at least with regard to global warming, between
the climate data and oil industry data is the dearth of data. When you
are data rich and can readily collect more data, you can afford to
discard data. In the work that I did experiments were extremely
expensive and rare. In such a case, you've got no choice but to try the
make the best of a bad situation.
This suggests a question for experts like Rich and Glenn. Does everyone
acknowledge that the data could be better to support the conclusions, or
is there disagreement about this? Rich appears to think that the data
is "adequate" to reject the null hypothesis (no warming), Glenn
disagrees. Is it possible that they are using a different confidence
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, Don Winterstein wrote:
> Bill,
> Static corrections to seismic data cause somewhat incoherent reflected waves to become more coherent, so "proof" they are working is in the increase in coherency. But there's more to it than that: The way modern reflection seismic data are acquired is roughly equivalent to doing dozens of ancillary mini-experiments which, under certain assumptions, make it possible to experimentally determine something about the real Earth properties that give rise to the need for the corrections. A common method of finding the corrections is to do a massive least-squares type calculation, and the results--provided the assumptions hold--say something about real properties of Earth's near-surface materials. These corrections thus involve no hand-waving except what goes into formulating the assumptions.
> I'm getting the impression from the stuff Glenn is showing that oil company geophysics holds to rather higher scientific standards than climate science. Without question I would have thrown out data acquired near equipment that was likely to cause aberrant, false readings. On one of my experiments I spent more than $10 000 (to the consternation of management) to suppress a noise source that threatened to degrade data quality. (Big cost overruns on that one!)
> The homogenizations of climate data, while no doubt important for a satisfactory interpretation, raise red flags about how exactly the adjustment magnitudes were determined. This is particularly so because prominent climate scientists have said things that reveal a strong bias towards making GW appear as large as possible.
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Powers<mailto:email@example.com<mailto:email@example.com>>
> To: Don Winterstein<mailto:email@example.com<mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com>>
> Cc: asa<mailto:email@example.com<mailto:email@example.com>> ; Glenn Morton<mailto:email@example.com<mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com>>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 6:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Data doesn't support global warming
> Don:
> I would presume that when making seismic measurements and "adjustments"
> are made to the data that these "adjustments" have been empirically
> confirmed in some manner. That is, these "adjustments" have been found
> to be reliable (e.g., they found oil).
> I can't say that I understand this "homogenization" process, except that
> it is an attempt to make the temperature measurements coherent. I
> suppose we need to be clear what measurements we are speaking of. Rich
> appears to be saying that since it is gradients that we are interested
> in, and not absolute temperatures, systematic errors at each site can be
> eliminated (assuming that the systematic errors are independent and
> produce constant effects, or at least that the systematic gradients are
> much less than the temperature gradients).
> The question would be whether such "homogenization" has proven to be
> reliable. No data set can be said to be measuring a single parameter
> (e.g., temperature). There will likely be many other influences that
> affect individual measurements. Assuming that these unmeasured and
> uncontrolled for influences are independent helps, as does that they are
> linear, and have a zero mean affect on the measured quantity. Whatever
> we are measuring, it appears essential to have some handle on the kinds
> of unmeasured and uncontrolled affects. This understanding (or at least
> presumption) will guide us in knowing how to massage the data and what
> kinds of useful data can be gleaned from the data set. So that perhaps
> absolute temperatures would not be unambiguous, but perhaps "trends" (as
> Rich) says might be. But in saying this I have either presumed
> something about the environment in which the data is taken or know from
> experience something about it.
> I am by no means an expert regarding this data set. My point here is
> only to emphasize that an explicit discussion of the various
> environments in which the data was taken and a characterization of the
> unmeasured and uncontrolled influences might be useful. Glenn has
> emphasized that some of the data was taken near "air conditioners" and
> similar "biasing" environments. Saying this is not sufficient to know
> how to treat the data. An attempt must be made to characterize what
> influence air conditioners will have on the data. Having taken a shot
> at this, one might be able to find "trends" reliable, but this is far
> from certain. Given that such biased data is consistent with
> independently biased data, we might be led to find the data and our
> manipulations more reliable.
> Well, I've said nothing that everyone doesn't already know. So I'll
> stop and go do something else.
> bill
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009, Don Winterstein wrote:
> > Glenn,
> >
> > I appreciate your efforts here.
> >
> > You wrote: "I learned that if you want to measure some quantity X you don't mess with the observed values when you average up all your measurments."
> >
> > In at least two previous posts on this list I explained that there's often a need to apply adjustments to geoscience data in order to make a satisfactory interpretation. This need generally arises from unknown variations encountered during recording, and as a rule the recording can't be repeated to get a handle on the reason(s) for the variations. Data that you know from physical principles should be coherent frequently turn out instead to be incoherent, so you can't interpret without making adjustments. An example of a common kind of adjustment: in reflection seismology we always apply static corrections to land data; this process is done automatically with special-purpose computer programs. The programmer has built into these programs assumptions about many things, and there are usually several parameters the user can vary, depending on the level of sophistication. (I'm not telling you anything you don't know.) So oil company geophysicists also must "mess with the observed values" before they can interpret, and the way they do the messing can affect the interpretation.
> >
> > The need for such adjustments of geoscience data sometimes gives the interpreter flexibility to make the outcome go in a desired direction without being unethical about it. So, although I've not "engaged with the climate data," I was sure that climate scientists were making such adjustments, and I have felt that, because their biases are so obvious, some of the adjustments they've made are sure to have moved their interpretations in the direction of their biases. You're effectively arguing that much of the effect they want to see is in fact not in the data but comes from their "homogeneity adjustments." Partly because of this expectation I made "a modest proposal" a week or two ago that a different set of geoscientists, such as oil company geophysicists, with a different set of biases, should completely reinterpret all the climate data to see whether different conclusions might be plausible from the same data. Before the world spends trillions on a possible goose chase it might be good to get a second opinion.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Glenn Morton<mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com<mailto:email@example.com<mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com%3Cmailto:firstname.lastname@example.com>>>
> > To: email@example.com<mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com<mailto:email@example.com%3Cmailto:email@example.com<mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com%3Cmailto:email@example.com%3Cmailto:firstname.lastname@example.com%3Cmailto:email@example.com>>>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: [asa] Data doesn't support global warming
> >
> >
> > Replies for Rich Blinne, Michael Roberts, Rich Blinne again, Murray Hogg,
> > Randy Isaac, Murray Hogg again, Michael Roberts again, and Gordon Brown.
> > A comment on the 4 post limit. What difference does it make if one posts 29
> > small emails or 1 big one? Answer, doing the former gets you chastised on
> > the ASA, doing the latter doesn't.
> >
> > Rich Blinne wrote:
> > >>>>
> >
> > Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Arctic isn't warming. This just shows you have zero
> > credibility. <<<<
> >
> > I would like everyone sane on this list to note that Rich just ducked
> > dealing with the monthly raw data and refused to engage with the data. His
> > "scientific" reason for not paying attention to the discrepancy is "yeah
> > yeah yeah the arctic isn't warming". This is so laughably not engaging with
> > the data.
> >
> >
> >
> > >>>>TIKSI, Russia - Freed by warming, waters once locked beneath ice are
> > >>>>gnawing at coastal settlements around the Arctic Circle.
> > In Bykovsky, a village of 457 on Russia's northeast coast, the shoreline is
> > collapsing, creeping closer and closer to houses and tanks of heating oil,
> > at a rate of 15 to 18 feet a year. Eventually, homes will be lost, and maybe
> > all of Bykovsky, too, under ever-longer periods of assault by open water.
> > "It is eating up the land," said Innokenty Koryakin, a member of the Evenk
> > tribe and the captain of a fishing boat. "You cannot do anything about
> > it."<<<<
> >
> > And Have you considered that part of this might be, gasp, SUBSIDENCE? Of the
> > Timan-Pechora basin in which Tiksi lies, it is written
> > "The active rift stage of the West Siberian Basin terminated in the Late
> > Triassic and was followed by tectonic subsidence and deposition of
> > predominantly siliciclastic sedimentary rocks of Jurassic to Quaternary
> > age." Mann et al, "Tectonic Setting of the World's Giant Oil and Gas
> > Fields," in Michael T. Halbouty, Giant Oil and Gas Fields of the Decade,
> > 1990-1999, Tulsa: AAPG, p. 48
> > Not all subsidence is caused by Global WARMING, Rich. Are you going to try
> > to prove that this subsidence is, or are you like the above going to say,
> > Yeah yeah yeah Tiksi isn't sinking because of subsidence... blah blah
> > blah???
> > ...
> >
> > >>>Coastal erosion is a problem in Alaska as well, forcing the United States
> > >>>to prepare to relocate several Inuit villages at a projected cost of $100
> > >>>million or more for each one.
> > Across the Arctic, indigenous tribes with traditions shaped by centuries of
> > living in extremes of cold and ice are noticing changes in weather and
> > wildlife. They are trying to adapt, but it can be confounding.<<<<
> >
> > I want everyone to note how Rich has ducked, dodged and evaded the questions
> > I asked him about why the monthly raw data doesn't show siberian warmth, how
> > one can correct the output of a thermometer next to an air conditioner, why
> > the satellite data has a step function in the middle of it, and why are
> > modern thermometers made to read warmer than those of 1900. So far in this
> > 'reply' of his, he is ignoring those questions. I will keep asking him to
> > explain.
> > Rich claims to be the expert on AGW here on this list but he can't or won't
> > answer a simple question about how a particular station is to be corrected
> > if it has a heat source next to it.
> >
> > Now, since I will deal with issues, Building modern energy intensive
> > cities, even small ones, on top of permafrost, will melt the permafrost
> > below and cause them to sink into the ice. I used to work for ARCO and we
> > had this problem at Prudhoe Bay. So, once again you can't prove that your
> > sinking is due to warming from CO2. it might be because the huts now are not
> > igloos but homes with heaters emitting too much heat for the permafrost
> > below to remain solid.
> > >>>Take the Inuit word for June, qiqsuqqaqtuq. It refers to snow conditions,
> > >>>a strong crust at night. Only those traits now appear in May. Shari
> > >>>Gearheard, a climate researcher from Harvard, recalled the appeal of an
> > >>>Inuit hunter, James Qillaq, for a new word at a recent meeting in
> > >>>Canada.<<<<
> >
> > Let's see, most AGW folk would now claim 'anecdotal'. Is this the best you
> > can do??
> > >>>One sentence stayed in her mind: "June isn't really June any more."<<<
> >
> > Awwww.
> >
> > >>>Even in this funny little island we have lost our winters in the last 15
> > >>>years . That I know from winter climbing. Before then you could guarantee
> > >>>some good snow and ice climbing in the mountains of England and Wales,
> > >>>and get many good days in. Today you are lucky to get one or two.<<<
> >
> > Maybe you should look out the window at your country, Michael. Scotland's
> > Cairngorm ski resort has opened early. The article says it is an early
> > start.
> > http://www.fasttrackski.co.uk/ski-news/general-ski/scotlands-ski-season-begins-200911294879.php<http://www.fasttrackski.co.uk/ski-news/general-ski/scotlands-ski-season-begins-200911294879.php<http://www.fasttrackski.co.uk/ski-news/general-ski/scotlands-ski-season-begins-200911294879.php%3Chttp://www.fasttrackski.co.uk/ski-news/general-ski/scotlands-ski-season-begins-200911294879.php<http://www.fasttrackski.co.uk/ski-news/general-ski/scotlands-ski-season-begins-200911294879.php%3Chttp://www.fasttrackski.co.uk/ski-news/general-ski/scotlands-ski-season-begins-200911294879.php%3Chttp://www.fasttrackski.co.uk/ski-news/general-ski/scotlands-ski-season-begins-200911294879.php%3Chttp://www.fasttrackski.co.uk/ski-news/general-ski/scotlands-ski-season-begins-200911294879.php>>>
> >
> > Rich Blinne wrote again:
> >
> > >>>>Not only that but what about "cooling" Darwin? The following is from the
> > >>>>October 2009 NCDC global report:
> >
> > Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia experienced warmer-than-average
> > temperatures during October 2009. The capital city recorded an average
> > maximum temperature of 34.8Ã,°C (94.6Ã,°F) on October 2009, the highest on
> > record for any month (Source: Australia's Bureau of Meteorology).
> >
> >
> > I guess the people at the Darwin Airport were firing up their air
> > conditioners. :-)<<<
> >
> > Actually Rich, that wasn't what I asked you. I asked you to explain how one
> > could correct the bias in the temperature record caused by heat sources next
> > to air conditioners. Here is another picture.
> > http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=20757<http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=20757<http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=20757<http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=20757<http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=20757<http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=20757<http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=20757<http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=20757>>>
> > Rich, both the house and the air conditioner are heat sources. Siting
> > requirements say that the mmts should be 10 m away from a house. Do you
> > think that above picture fulfills that requirement? Don't duck weave and
> > evade this question.
> >
> > And yes, if it was warm, and the Australians have air conditioners next to
> > thermometers, that will warm them. Do you deny that blowing hot air
> > conditioner exhaust on a thermometer will actually warm the thermometer?
> >
> > Murray Hogg wrote:
> >
> > >>>I suggest you relocate them away from the air-conditioner.<<<
> >
> > I want everyone to note how cavalier these people are when there are
> > problems with measurments of the data upon which they depend. This is
> > certainly not a scientific attitude--it is an attitude of a politician who
> > doesn't really care about truth. Scientists are supposed to care about
> > truth--in the case of the thermometers, what is the TRUE temperature.
> >
> > Frankly I want to cry when I see such abysmal sloppiness excused and
> > tolerated by people who are interested in science.
> >
> > Christine Smith, I have a question for you. Do you think Murray's cavalier
> > uncaring attitude is what scientists should do?
> >
> > Randy Isaac wrote:
> >
> > >>>>I think you're on the right path, doing what good scientists would and
> > should do. Whenever a complex primary analysis leads to a result with
> > significant impact, the first thing to do is a sanity check, or a "sniff
> > test" to see if the result holds true. In essence, you've done that for the
> > global warming case. Instead of taking all the data for all the earth and
> > all the time periods, you've done a sanity check on specific areas for
> > certain periods and found it didn't hold up.<<<<
> >
> > Thank you Randy, you don't know how much I appreciate your attitude. It
> > seems that few on this list care to do a sniff test on the data (look at the
> > shameful answers and evasions above).
> >
> > >>>When a sanity check of data isn't consistent with the primary analysis,
> > there is one more critical step that must be taken before conclusions can be
> > drawn. There are four logical possibilities:
> > a. The primary analysis is wrong
> > b. The sanity check is wrong
> > c. Both are wrong
> > d. Inconclusive--more investigation is needed.<<<
> >
> > Agreed. I would make one observation, Randy, I have probably downloaded more
> > raw data here than anyone else on this list, yet almost none of them care to
> > follow your sense checks. Of course my data could be wrong, but one isn't
> > going to show my data wrong by saying " Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Arctic isn't
> > warming. This just shows you have zero credibility" as Rich says. To show
> > how I might be wrong, one must repeat my work and show where I made the
> > error. Unthinking parroting of GISS sites is merely an excersise in mantra
> > spouting. Thus I really really appreciate your attitude. At least you are
> > willing to look at the data and possible problems
> >
> >
> > >>>The key point is that until the source of the discrepancy between the two
> > points is identified and verified, the answer is d. I have experienced many
> > situations of this kind and the story isn't over until the understanding of
> > why the two approaches differ has been confirmed. It doesn't matter how each
> > approach can have its strong advocates. There must be an explanation of the
> > difference.<<<
> >
> > That is fine, more investigation is always needed. But I will tell you from
> > my experience in debating YECs that they too will say more investigation is
> > needed and then ignore the problems presented. Some go so far as to say we
> > should draw no conclusions until all knowledge is known. So, since I don't
> > think you are a person like that, what exactly would convince you that
> > global warming is false. Please be specific about what steps one should
> > take. And then assure me that if I did that herculean task (which I am not
> > sure I can do whatever it is) that it would actually change your mind. I
> > have met far too many people in this world who say they will change in the
> > face of evidence but who never will. Which kind are you Randy?
> >
> > >>>You provide eloquent descriptions of why and how various subsets ought to
> > >>>be
> > a good substitute for the full blown analysis and I'm not arguing with any
> > of it. We still have a discrepancy to resolve. To do that, we have to try
> > all sorts of different approaches before the matter is settled. Until we
> > know the difference between the two techniques that leads to the different
> > results, we will remain inconclusive.
> >
> > May I suggest an approach that could test some of the possible sources of
> > discrepancy? First, instead of tackling the full global trend, one might
> > focus on a more regional observation analyzed with the same techniques. So,
> > for example, the GISS data which was used for global trend analysis, was
> > also used for assessing the geographical distribution. Chart number 11 in
> > this presentation http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/Trinity_20090605.ppt<http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/Trinity_20090605.ppt<http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/Trinity_20090605.ppt%3Chttp://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/Trinity_20090605.ppt<http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/Trinity_20090605.ppt%3Chttp://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/Trinity_20090605.ppt%3Chttp://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/Trinity_20090605.ppt%3Chttp://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2009/Trinity_20090605.ppt>>> is
> > an example. Here we can see that their data indicates a 0.5 to 1.0C
> > difference (except for Texas) in temperature for the US during the period
> > 2001-2007 compared with 1951-1980. This is a specific result for a specific
> > region. (By the way, that chart shows what I was referring to about
> > variations in geographical regions.<<<<
> >
> > Let me ask this. If that trend shown in the above slide 11 is to be
> > believed, don't you think that the monthly temperature record should show
> > it? Do you think the RAW temperature should show SOME rise in temperature?
> > Answer this question before we continue along this path.
> >
> > >>>>As you point out, the variations in CO2
> > concentration are small, though not zero, and the physics is the same,
> > though the radiation intensity is different. <<<<
> >
> > Given that the atmosphere is so thoroughly mixed that in every breath we
> > take we inhale molecules that had been in the lungs of every famous
> > historical person, I would challenge the idea that a stationary deficit of
> > CO2 can hang around Texas or any other location for a long time (or hover
> > over Brookhaven MS). So please provide a reference to a scientific paper
> > saying that the CO2 content can vary for decades over a given spot. I would
> > be very interested in learning that I am wrong about my view in that regard.
> >
> >
> > >>>>However, several ocean and wind
> > circulation patterns with decadal oscillations can influence the analysis
> > for specific regions) For your analysis, to avoid any possibility of skewing
> > data by month, it should be possible to take all 12 months for the period
> > from 2001 to 2007 and derive the average anomaly, taking care to blend the
> > data from the various states by accounting for the geographical area
> > represented. If the error bars from that work have an overlap with the error
> > bars of the GISS data, then the discrepancy disappears for this particular
> > situation. <<<<
> >
> > How about I do it for the 18 cities I have spread from one end of Siberia to
> > the other since you all seem to be fixated on Siberia and I see no warming
> > there?
> >
> >
> > Murray Hogg wrote:
> >
> > >>>>That the homogeneity adjustments (i.e. "editing") are responsible for
> > >>>>the difference between the raw and adjusted data is quite clear. The
> > >>>>real question is whether those adjustments are reliable.<<<<
> >
> > I would agree with you. I would point out that when I learned my physics
> > (something Michael Roberts did not learn and isn't qualified to comment on),
> > I learned that if you want to measure some quantity X you don't mess with
> > the observed values when you average up all your measurments. If I am
> > measuring the speed of light, I must measure the distance, and I must
> > measure the time, and I might also have to measure rotation of a toothed
> > wheel etc. Now, all those measurements have error in them. If I know that
> > the previously measured speed of light is 299,792,458 m per second, and I
> > adjust my distance measurement to make my result come out to match the
> > previous value, you could rightly accuse me of cheating, of scientific
> > fraud.
> >
> > But, somehow that doesn't seem to apply when we are trying to measure the
> > TREND of the temperature. Remember, we want to observe the TREND. The
> > homogeneity filter CHANGES THE TREND, THE VERY THING WE ARE TRYING TO
> > MEASURE. And when you change the trend at hundreds of stations, the average
> > trend output by this process is not an observed trend but something else.
> > That is why the homogeneity filter is so bad.
> >
> > Here for the benefit of the lurkers are some examples, all taken from data
> > downloaded at
> > http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/<http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/<http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/%3Chttp://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/<http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/%3Chttp://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/%3Chttp://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/%3Chttp://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/>>>
> >
> > Note that the above is a NOAA site. I am merely reporting what they have
> > there.
> > Here are some examples of changing the trend, the very thing we are trying
> > to MEASURE.
> >
> > http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEbfok3RI/AAAAAAAAA4w/ytWE0uFWkrw/s400/weatherNZChristchurcheditedRaw.jpg<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEbfok3RI/AAAAAAAAA4w/ytWE0uFWkrw/s400/weatherNZChristchurcheditedRaw.jpg<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEbfok3RI/AAAAAAAAA4w/ytWE0uFWkrw/s400/weatherNZChristchurcheditedRaw.jpg%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEbfok3RI/AAAAAAAAA4w/ytWE0uFWkrw/s400/weatherNZChristchurcheditedRaw.jpg<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEbfok3RI/AAAAAAAAA4w/ytWE0uFWkrw/s400/weatherNZChristchurcheditedRaw.jpg%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEbfok3RI/AAAAAAAAA4w/ytWE0uFWkrw/s400/weatherNZChristchurcheditedRaw.jpg%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEbfok3RI/AAAAAAAAA4w/ytWE0uFWkrw/s400/weatherNZChristchurcheditedRaw.jpg%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEbfok3RI/AAAAAAAAA4w/ytWE0uFWkrw/s400/weatherNZChristchurcheditedRaw.jpg>>>
> >
> > http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEJAYmlzI/AAAAAAAAA4o/seB6cG0G0-k/s400/Picture1weatherNZWellingtonall.jpg<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEJAYmlzI/AAAAAAAAA4o/seB6cG0G0-k/s400/Picture1weatherNZWellingtonall.jpg<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEJAYmlzI/AAAAAAAAA4o/seB6cG0G0-k/s400/Picture1weatherNZWellingtonall.jpg%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEJAYmlzI/AAAAAAAAA4o/seB6cG0G0-k/s400/Picture1weatherNZWellingtonall.jpg<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEJAYmlzI/AAAAAAAAA4o/seB6cG0G0-k/s400/Picture1weatherNZWellingtonall.jpg%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEJAYmlzI/AAAAAAAAA4o/seB6cG0G0-k/s400/Picture1weatherNZWellingtonall.jpg%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEJAYmlzI/AAAAAAAAA4o/seB6cG0G0-k/s400/Picture1weatherNZWellingtonall.jpg%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUEJAYmlzI/AAAAAAAAA4o/seB6cG0G0-k/s400/Picture1weatherNZWellingtonall.jpg>>>
> >
> > http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUGXiktDYI/AAAAAAAAA44/8LY-0X2-QPc/s400/weatherSAKimberlyHomogVSRaw.jpg<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUGXiktDYI/AAAAAAAAA44/8LY-0X2-QPc/s400/weatherSAKimberlyHomogVSRaw.jpg<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUGXiktDYI/AAAAAAAAA44/8LY-0X2-QPc/s400/weatherSAKimberlyHomogVSRaw.jpg%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUGXiktDYI/AAAAAAAAA44/8LY-0X2-QPc/s400/weatherSAKimberlyHomogVSRaw.jpg<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUGXiktDYI/AAAAAAAAA44/8LY-0X2-QPc/s400/weatherSAKimberlyHomogVSRaw.jpg%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUGXiktDYI/AAAAAAAAA44/8LY-0X2-QPc/s400/weatherSAKimberlyHomogVSRaw.jpg%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUGXiktDYI/AAAAAAAAA44/8LY-0X2-QPc/s400/weatherSAKimberlyHomogVSRaw.jpg%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Lxqre8hMG3M/SyUGXiktDYI/AAAAAAAAA44/8LY-0X2-QPc/s400/weatherSAKimberlyHomogVSRaw.jpg>>>
> >
> > I have verified these but a friend did the work and he deserves the credit.
> > These pictures are from
> > http://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-would-you-like-your-climate-trends.html<http://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-would-you-like-your-climate-trends.html<http://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-would-you-like-your-climate-trends.html%3Chttp://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-would-you-like-your-climate-trends.html<http://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-would-you-like-your-climate-trends.html%3Chttp://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-would-you-like-your-climate-trends.html%3Chttp://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-would-you-like-your-climate-trends.html%3Chttp://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-would-you-like-your-climate-trends.html>>>
> >
> >
> >
> > http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30AvBD0_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/ggaNCmPziQA/s1600-h/Tokyo.png<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30AvBD0_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/ggaNCmPziQA/s1600-h/Tokyo.png<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30AvBD0_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/ggaNCmPziQA/s1600-h/Tokyo.png%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30AvBD0_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/ggaNCmPziQA/s1600-h/Tokyo.png<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30AvBD0_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/ggaNCmPziQA/s1600-h/Tokyo.png%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30AvBD0_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/ggaNCmPziQA/s1600-h/Tokyo.png%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30AvBD0_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/ggaNCmPziQA/s1600-h/Tokyo.png%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30AvBD0_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/ggaNCmPziQA/s1600-h/Tokyo.png>>>
> >
> > http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30XSvMcjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/l441BUWy8uw/s1600-h/Blindern.png<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30XSvMcjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/l441BUWy8uw/s1600-h/Blindern.png<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30XSvMcjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/l441BUWy8uw/s1600-h/Blindern.png%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30XSvMcjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/l441BUWy8uw/s1600-h/Blindern.png<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30XSvMcjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/l441BUWy8uw/s1600-h/Blindern.png%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30XSvMcjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/l441BUWy8uw/s1600-h/Blindern.png%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30XSvMcjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/l441BUWy8uw/s1600-h/Blindern.png%3Chttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv30XSvMcjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/l441BUWy8uw/s1600-h/Blindern.png>>>
> >
> >
> > http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv308Jg25JI/AAAAAAAAAGE/fvX1YTGz4iE/s1600-h/Nassau.png<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv308Jg25JI/AAAAAAAAAGE/fvX1YTGz4iE/s1600-h/Nassau.png<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv308Jg25JI/AAAAAAAAAGE/fvX1YTGz4iE/s1600-h/Nassau.png%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv308Jg25JI/AAAAAAAAAGE/fvX1YTGz4iE/s1600-h/Nassau.png<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv308Jg25JI/AAAAAAAAAGE/fvX1YTGz4iE/s1600-h/Nassau.png%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv308Jg25JI/AAAAAAAAAGE/fvX1YTGz4iE/s1600-h/Nassau.png%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv308Jg25JI/AAAAAAAAAGE/fvX1YTGz4iE/s1600-h/Nassau.png%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv308Jg25JI/AAAAAAAAAGE/fvX1YTGz4iE/s1600-h/Nassau.png>>>
> >
> >
> > http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31OYOuWzI/AAAAAAAAAGU/1XMQdsB8sQw/s1600-h/Arcadia,+FL.png<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31OYOuWzI/AAAAAAAAAGU/1XMQdsB8sQw/s1600-h/Arcadia,+FL.png<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31OYOuWzI/AAAAAAAAAGU/1XMQdsB8sQw/s1600-h/Arcadia,+FL.png%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31OYOuWzI/AAAAAAAAAGU/1XMQdsB8sQw/s1600-h/Arcadia,+FL.png<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31OYOuWzI/AAAAAAAAAGU/1XMQdsB8sQw/s1600-h/Arcadia,+FL.png%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31OYOuWzI/AAAAAAAAAGU/1XMQdsB8sQw/s1600-h/Arcadia,+FL.png%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31OYOuWzI/AAAAAAAAAGU/1XMQdsB8sQw/s1600-h/Arcadia,+FL.png%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31OYOuWzI/AAAAAAAAAGU/1XMQdsB8sQw/s1600-h/Arcadia,+FL.png>>>
> >
> > http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31FUZV1CI/AAAAAAAAAGM/5nuOczBZS8w/s1600-h/Aswan.png<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31FUZV1CI/AAAAAAAAAGM/5nuOczBZS8w/s1600-h/Aswan.png<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31FUZV1CI/AAAAAAAAAGM/5nuOczBZS8w/s1600-h/Aswan.png%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31FUZV1CI/AAAAAAAAAGM/5nuOczBZS8w/s1600-h/Aswan.png<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31FUZV1CI/AAAAAAAAAGM/5nuOczBZS8w/s1600-h/Aswan.png%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31FUZV1CI/AAAAAAAAAGM/5nuOczBZS8w/s1600-h/Aswan.png%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31FUZV1CI/AAAAAAAAAGM/5nuOczBZS8w/s1600-h/Aswan.png%3Chttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31FUZV1CI/AAAAAAAAAGM/5nuOczBZS8w/s1600-h/Aswan.png>>>
> >
> > http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31YAkLd8I/AAAAAAAAAGc/YW5lTW_JMMY/s1600-h/Bombay.png<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31YAkLd8I/AAAAAAAAAGc/YW5lTW_JMMY/s1600-h/Bombay.png<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31YAkLd8I/AAAAAAAAAGc/YW5lTW_JMMY/s1600-h/Bombay.png%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31YAkLd8I/AAAAAAAAAGc/YW5lTW_JMMY/s1600-h/Bombay.png<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31YAkLd8I/AAAAAAAAAGc/YW5lTW_JMMY/s1600-h/Bombay.png%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31YAkLd8I/AAAAAAAAAGc/YW5lTW_JMMY/s1600-h/Bombay.png%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31YAkLd8I/AAAAAAAAAGc/YW5lTW_JMMY/s1600-h/Bombay.png%3Chttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31YAkLd8I/AAAAAAAAAGc/YW5lTW_JMMY/s1600-h/Bombay.png>>>
> >
> > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31fHAEA1I/AAAAAAAAAGk/KBYITwQQG5s/s1600-h/Adelaide.png<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31fHAEA1I/AAAAAAAAAGk/KBYITwQQG5s/s1600-h/Adelaide.png<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31fHAEA1I/AAAAAAAAAGk/KBYITwQQG5s/s1600-h/Adelaide.png%3Chttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31fHAEA1I/AAAAAAAAAGk/KBYITwQQG5s/s1600-h/Adelaide.png<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31fHAEA1I/AAAAAAAAAGk/KBYITwQQG5s/s1600-h/Adelaide.png%3Chttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31fHAEA1I/AAAAAAAAAGk/KBYITwQQG5s/s1600-h/Adelaide.png%3Chttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31fHAEA1I/AAAAAAAAAGk/KBYITwQQG5s/s1600-h/Adelaide.png%3Chttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/Sv31fHAEA1I/AAAAAAAAAGk/KBYITwQQG5s/s1600-h/Adelaide.png>>>
> >
> >
> > >>>>As you are no doubt aware, there is an extensive literature addressing
> > >>>>that question, and the Peterson article from which you derived the graph
> > >>>>is a part of that literature.
> >
> > Now, I regret that this particular subject is so far outside my area of
> > expertise such that there is doubtless an enormous amount of background
> > knowledge one needs in order to make sense of Peterson's article. But I will
> > venture on the following brief observation; <<<
> >
> > Yes, but there are lots of people who think the homogeneity issue is where
> > the fraud is perpetrated. I am one of those. Scientifically one should not
> > alter the measurement of what one wants to determine.
> >
> > >>>Peterson's methodology is essentially to compare the trends of adjusted
> > >>>data (for stations with known siting issues) and non-adjusted data (for
> > >>>stations with no known siting issues) by way of running a cross-check on
> > >>>the adjustments.<<<
> >
> > It is a subjective judgement that the cooling stations in his study are the
> > badly sited stations. I looked into those stations and the cooling stations
> > looked better sited according to the rules but he thought they needed to be
> > warmed.
> >
> >
> >
> > >>>I short, am I not correct in thinking that Peterson's evaluation of the
> > >>>reliability of homogenity adjustments on data from poorly sited stations
> > >>>is somewhat at odds with your own?<<<
> >
> > Darn tootin' I differ from Peterson. I have tried to engage climatologists
> > on the issue of stations next to air conditioners and they are all quite
> > blaise about them. That is not consistent with a group of people who care
> > about getting the data right, so I am not ashamed to go against Peterson on
> > his changing the trend. Truth is determined by data, nothing else.
> >
> > >>>I wonder if you have taken the time to bring your analysis to Peterson's
> > >>>attention, and what his response (if any) may have been?<<
> >
> > I have brought it to the attention of others. they all say what I am doing
> > is well known and not newsworthy!!! Gordon Simons was witness to two of
> > these instances if anyone wants to ask him for verification.
> >
> > MICHAEL ROBERTS said:
> >
> > >>>There are more than two options. There are those who don't want GW to be
> > >>>true and throw up red herrings, those who are just bloody-minded for a
> > >>>start<<
> >
> > How scientific of you Michael. Yep, that is a grand scientific reason.
> > Anyone who has an ounce of skepticism is just bloody minded. Christine
> > Smith, is this the kind of answer you think is a good one?
> >
> >
> > >>>It is not true that trees don't live in permafrost. Much of the boreal
> > >>>forest
> > is located on permafrost. The lower elevations of Alaska's interior are
> > taiga,
> > not tundra. However the trees' roots cannot go deep because they encounter
> > permafrost. I recall once that a tour guide pointed out an area of forest
> > which
> > he called a "drunken forest" in which the trees did not stand up straight
> > due
> > to the permafrost underneath them. The existence of forest in these
> > latitudes
> > is apparently determined by whether the average summer temperatures are high
> > enough.
> >
> > Gordon Brown (ASA member)<<<
> >
> > Not so fast Gordon. Tree roots in permanently (as in year round) frozen
> > ground can't take up water. Permanentely frozen ground is the definition of
> > permafrost--the perma short for permanent. Trees live ABOVE permafrost, not
> > IN permafrost. Please acknowledge that I am correct on this.
> >
> >
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Received on Mon Dec 21 02:02:20 2009
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