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3:00 am
Outdoor Idaho "The Foothills" The backdrop for Idaho's Statehouse and the city of Boise is also the instant getaway for people in the Treasure Valley with more than 10,000 acres set aside through a voter-approved levy and more than 135 miles of trails. Runners, walkers, mountain bikers, wildflower hunters, wildlife watchers and more make year around use of the Foothills, which merge into the Boise Ridge, topped by Bogus Basin Ski Resort.G
3:30 am
Dialogue "Idaho Wildlife Summit" NULL
4:00 am
Sesame Street "Jack's Big Jump" Jack Be Nimble is getting ready for his big jump over eight candlesticks! He tries to jump over them, but instead he knocks them over and falls. Jack runs away and hides. He messed up and now is having trouble jumping. D
5:00 am
Sid The Science Kid "Sid Wings It!" In his backyard, Sid shows off his homemade cardboard wings. He's wearing them because he wants to fly, just like the bird he has been watching all morning. When his flight plans don't work out, he heads to school to investigate. D
5:30 am
Martha Speaks "Eyes on the Skies/Camp Truman" Eyes on the Skies - Astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson (Truman's #1 hero), is holding a seminar at the library. Truman becomes more and more certain that his activity partner T.D. is going to embarrass him in front of his idol. D
6:00 am
NOVA "Hunting The Edge of Space - The Mystery of the Milky Way" Three centuries of engineering produce telescopes far beyond Galileo's simple spyglass. They perch on mountaintops, orbit the Earth and circle other planets; together they reveal the solar system in greater and greater detail. This episode visits today's most powerful telescopes and embarks on a journey to the planets and moons. Part 1 of 2G
7:00 am
Rick Steves' Europe "Eastern Turkey" Rick experiences a Mount Ararat sunrise, visits Abraham's 4,000-year-old home town and tours one of the world's biggest dams.G
7:30 am
Smart Travels - Europe with Rudy Maxa "Alpine Christmas" Hot-spiced cider and strains of "O Tannenbaum" warm our hearts as we head to Europe for Christmas. Switzerland has a special glow this time of year and we find plenty of good cheer in the bright Christmas markets and toasty ski lodges. We begin in the magical atmosphere of Zurich, with its glittering trees and festive music. D
8:00 am
The Desert Speaks "Beyond The Asphalt Part 2" Interstate highways allow for quick trips, but they also provide a gateway to some of the most amazing places you'll ever visit. Host David Yetman travels by foot, car, bike, and motorcycle to examine the caves of Kartchner Caverns State Park, the historic sites of Tombstone, the Sandhill Cranes of Sulphur Springs Valley and the "Wonderland of Rocks" in the Chiricahua Moutains. D
8:30 am
Ciao Italia "Mushroom Fantasy/Una Fantasia Dei Funghi" Mary Ann visits the magical world of David Connor, AKA "Mister Tomato" who grows the most fantastic mushrooms you've ever seen in a energy-efficient greenhouse. He gives her a basket full to take nella cucina to create a hearty Pasta with Mushroom Sauce, a wintertime treat of White Polenta with Mushrooms and Peppers, and finishes it off with a Baked Mushroom Frittata. How about them tomatoes?. D
9:00 am
Taste of History "Three Women" Three seminal cookbooks are the inspiration for Chef Walter's 18th Century American recipes: Mary Randolph's "Stuffed Veal Breast," Hannah Glasse's "Braised Veal Heart and Martha Washington's Excellent Cake. D
9:30 am
Simply Ming "Joanne Chang & Pastry" If you ever thought you couldn't bake because it requires precision, you are not alone. On this episode of SIMPLY MING, Ming shows how grasping one small but important rule can allow viewers to bake countless desserts with just a few ingredients in quantities you can eyeball. Joining Ming, fabulous Boston baker, Joanne Chang, proves you don't need recipes to make amazing desserts on the fly. D
10:00 am
America's Test Kitchen from Cook's Illustrated "Southeast Asian Favorites" Man on the Street Doc Willoughby ventures to New York City to learn the secrets of Thai cooking. Test cook Julia Collin Davison shows host Christopher Kimball how to make the ultimate Thai Grilled Beef Salad. Next, equipment expert Adam Ried reveals his top pick for smoker boxes in the Equipment Corner. D
10:30 am
Around The House with Matt and Shari "Crafts for the Whole Family" Crafting is a family activity for all ages. Our first project is making pom poms into flowers or as an accent on pillows and other crafts. Next, make a pet pillow - sewn and no sew versions. D
11:00 am
Austin City Limits "Rosanne Cash/Brandi Carlile" Cash is backed up by a full band with her husband, John Leventhal, on lead guitar. Most of her songs are from her album, The List, that draws on the 100 songs her father, Johnny Cash, described as essential country songs. Carlile blows the roof off with her big voice and exciting music.G
12:00 pm
Sesame Street "Inspected By 4" Leela, Telly and Elmo are folding clothes in the Laundromat when Inspector 4, Judah Friedlander, comes along to inspect for things that are in groups of four. Inspector 4 can't find four of anything and threatens to shut down the Laundromat! Luckily, Elmo suggests counting the bottles of fabric softener. Time to count! 1,2,3,4! There are four bottles of fabric softener. D
1:00 pm
Dinosaur Train "Erma Eoraptor/Under The Volcano" Erma Eoraptor - Buddy, Tiny, and Mrs. Pteranodon go on an expedition to find Erma Eoraptor, a member of the first species of dinosaur that ever lived. They venture off the beaten paths in the Triassic to find Erma, and then bring her back for a ride on the Dinosaur Train! Under the Volcano - Tiny, Buddy, and Mr. Pteranodon take the Dinosaur Train to Volcano Valley to see the local volcano. The sight is so spectacular, they go back for the rest of the family only to discover they've already gone to see the volcano! The merry mix-up concludes as the whole family meets up to marvel at the sight of Mt. D
1:30 pm
Super Why! "Molly's Dance Show" The curtain rises on Princess Pea's dance recital but she's too scared to come out of the wings! Super Why and his friends head into the story Molly's Dance Show to meet a ballerina doll with similar stage fright. When Molly's dreams of performing come true, thanks to a fairy princess and some magic slippers, Princess Presto wonders what it will take for her to have confidence, too. Educational Objectives: To learn about self-confidence. D
2:00 pm
Cat in the Hat Knows A Lot About That! "Amazing Eyes/Water Walkers" Amazing Eyes - Sally and Nick are trying to guess which game Harvey the guinea pig might like to play with them. The Cat takes them to meet his friend Katie the Cavy, a wild guinea pig. But when they try to ask her, she playfully runs off! With the help of three different animals with very different ways of seeing, they finally find Katie and discover a guinea pig's favourite game - hide and seek! Water Walkers - Nick and Sally are waiting for Mom to come back so they can play in the pool. D
2:30 pm
Wild Kratts "The Blue and the Gray" Martin and Chris are absorbed in a hilarious competition to discover who is the best acorn planter, blue jays or gray squirrels, when a strange Creature Power Suit malfunction transforms Martin into an acorn and grows him into an Oak tree! Chris activates the squirrel powers of his Creature Power Suit, but gets waylaid by a bobcat and goshawk, and the Aviva, Koki, and Jimmy can't find them. It'll take some animal-loving Wild Kratts kids to get them out of this mess. D
3:00 pm
Sara's Weeknight Meals "Girls at the Grill with Elizabeth Karmel" Women of America, pick up your tongs, put on your aprons and man the grill! It's easy with Sara's buddy, grilling expert Elizabeth Karmel, to guide you! First is an easy Chicken Paillard with Greek Farmer's Salad and Tzatziki to get the basics down. Then, pizza! This one is a Blistered Corn and Asparagus Pesto Grilled Pizza. Finally, we'll go all out with Elizabeth's famous Texas Hill Country BBQ with a universally loved finger lickin' sauce. D
3:30 pm
Rick Steves' Europe "England's Bath & York" Rick takes in Medieval York and Georgian Bath, both easy sidetrips from London. He explores Roman hot springs, cruises canals, and marvels at England's finest Gothic church.G
4:00 pm
Live from the Artists Den "The Fray" On an early Autumn night, the Angel Orensanz Center, a magnificent landmark in the heart of New York City's Lower East Side, hosted a stunning performance by multi-platinum rockers The Fray. The Denver-based band played 15 songs, a mix of such fan favorites as the Top 10 hits "How to Save a Life," "Over My Head" and "You Found Me," alongside new material from the forthcoming album "Scars and Stories, " including the current hit single, "Heartbeat." The show marked the first time some of these songs were ever played on stage, and concluded with a powerful version of the brand-new ballad "Be Still," performed solo at the piano by singer Isaac Slade. D
5:00 pm
PBS NewsHour NULL
6:00 pm
My Hero "Shock, Horror!" George becomes careless while zooming back and forth to check on Baby Ollie's temperature and a journalist snaps his picture.G
6:30 pm
Are You Being Served? "Change Is As Good As A Rest" Mr. Grace plays musical chairs with the departments. Ladies' and Gentle-mens' Wear find themselves in the toy department.G
7:01 pm
May to December "I'm Old Fashioned" Zoe invites Larry and Pete for dinner and Alex finds that his Inspector Dangerfield is not what he seems.G
7:30 pm
As Time Goes By "Alistair's Engagement" Judy invites her new boyfriend, Paul, to stay while Jean and Lionel are out of town.G
8:00 pm
Ladies of Letters Irene invites Vera down for a visit but long-held insecurities raise their head when Vera revels in the limelight at a soiree that Irene takes her to. Worse still, Irene learns her daughter is moving to Australia.G
8:30 pm
The Red Green Show "What A Dump" The Lodge proposes itself to the city of Toronto as an ideal place to dump garbage. Red makes an elaborate automated firewood chopper.G
9:00 pm
Keeping Up Appearances - The Memoirs of Hyacinth Bucket "Singing for Emmet" Hyacinth is still eager to impress Emmett with her prowess as a singer, especially now that he is divorced and has moved in next door with his sister Liz.G
9:30 pm
Mr. Bean "The Curse of Mr. Bean" At the swimming pool, Bean falls from the diving board and then his swim trunks fall off. Later he outwits a malicious parking lot barrier.G
10:00 pm
Outnumbered Mum tries to keep peace in a car with a new-age auntie, a bewildered grandfather, and three fractious kids while stuck in traffic. Meanwhile, Dad is waiting outside the Headmaster's office, after an ill-judged joke.G
10:30 pm
Vicar of Dibley 2004 Christmas Special Everyone in Dibley is determined to celebrate Geraldine's 10th anniversary as the first female vicar of England's most eccentric parish. However, the Christmas carol-writing competition produces the worst rhyming couplets ever written and Geraldine barely manages to head off a plan to have a stripper at the Christmas Eve cocktail party. Other disasters and complications culminate in a most unusual Midnight Mass.G
11:30 pm
My Hero "Shock, Horror!" George becomes careless while zooming back and forth to check on Baby Ollie's temperature and a journalist snaps his picture.G


text:
man of sin
The Bottomless Pit and The Beast
Published by Olivia on August 19, 2013 | 2 Responses
End of Page ↓ You probably have studied the Book of Revelation many times by now, and have read many commentaries and books on it. So have I. And every time I did, a little bit of veil was removed and more dots were connected. But, what produced the most fruit has always been my […]
Posted in Biblical Prophecy, Blog, Book of Revelation | Tagged 7 years, 7th empire, 8th empire, Abaddon, abyss, angel, anti-christ, Apollyon, armageddon, ascend, Babylon, bear, bottomless pit, Daniel, Daniel 7, Daniel 9:24, Daniel 9:27, demons, destroyer, destruction, empire, end time, eternal damnation, eyes, fallen angel, forth beast, Great Tribulation, Greek, harlot, hell, horn, islam, judgments, king, lake of fire, last, Last Days, Last Week, leopard, lion, little horn, man of sin, Mead-Persia, mouth, muslim, mystery babylon, Ottoman, perdition, permanent damnation, pit, prince, Prophecy, punishment, Revelation, Revelation 11, Revelation 13, Revelation 17, Revelation 20, Revelation 9, Rome, sea, Second Coming, the beast, tribulation, war

subset: commoncrawl


text:
DeKALB – A 1,273-home Irongate subdivision proposed near DeKalb High School could get the go-ahead today, as DeKalb aldermen negotiate the final details of the development with ShoDeen Construction.
The public will be able to sound off again at a public hearing the DeKalb City Council will hold on the new development, which could be the last chance to do so.
A proposed annexation agreement between the city and the developer is scheduled for a first reading today. Six aldermen must vote to approve the agreement, which could be finalized if they decide to waive a second reading.
"The developer has made significant changes to the land plan in response to the council's comments," City Manager Mark Biernacki said. "We will ask if there's a consensus, at least a supermajority of the council, on this project."
If approved by the council, ShoDeen plans to build 1,273 homes on about 420 acres north of DeKalb High School, west of First Street. The development will feature a mixture of houses and townhouses, with housing lots ranging between 50 and 80 feet wide.
Biernacki and ShoDeen President Dave Patzelt said all of the council's requests on the Irongate project have been met. The number of townhouses has dropped to less than 10 percent of the total housing units, and no discounts on any impact fees are offered.
"We've listened," Patzelt said. "Hopefully they've agreed that we listened, and hopefully they can favorably support the development plan we've put forward."
Two city aldermen – Kristen Lash and Monica O'Leary, of the Third and Seventh Wards, respectively – have said they will not vote to annex Irongate, regardless of the changes.
Both have said they saw no demand for new development in DeKalb, and would rather focus on redeveloping certain areas. Patzelt said their opposition was unfortunate.
"To do nothing is not a sign of moving forward," Patzelt said.
The aldermens' opposition also means that the remaining six council members all must be present and vote to annex the property, or the measure fails.
DeKalb aldermen are concerned that the new development could become filled with rental properties. This is why they pressed Patzelt in limiting how many and when the townhouses and 50-foot-wide houses can be built.
"Any house or apartment or condo or vacant lot could be rental if there's a market for rental. Their biggest concern was apartment rental – which are totally removed from the plan – and townhouses," Patzelt said. "I think those are all significant restrictions on this development that others don't have on their developments."
The Irongate development will feature 1,273 units located south of Bethany Road, west of First Street, and north of DeKalb High School. The development will have:
• 250 50-foot housing lots. These lots will not be built until 200 other lots have been built.
• 524 60-foot housing lots
• 190 70-foot housing lots
• 186 80-foot housing lots
• 123 townhouses. These townhouses will not be built until 350 single-family homes have been built.
• 12.6 acres for a senior living community
• 33.9 acres of parks
• 21.6 acres of school property
• 1.5 acres of wetlands


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Experts urge employee appreciation
Dubai, October 29, 2009
A radical rethink on management approaches to build bonds of trust in workplaces and enhance employee engagement has been called for by the world's top leaders at an ongoing business forum in Dubai.
The two-day Leaders in Dubai Business Forum, which sets the stage for renowned experts in management and leadership to share their insights, opened on October 26 at the Dubai International Convention and Exhibition Centre.
Speakers at the forum also stated that the prevailing global economic climate will force a positive change in working environments, with employees who uphold human values, define goals and recognise performance, standing to benefit in terms of employee retention and higher financial returns.
"Human rights and ethos apply to corporate world as much as they are relevant to the world at large. You and I are created to be part of a delicate network of interdependence – this applies to every community and team of which we are a part," Nobel laureate and rights campaigner Archbishop Desmond Tutu told the audience.
"Recognition is the accelerator of business performance and the chief driver of employee engagement," said Chester Elton, management expert and best-selling author, citing the findings of his 10-year study of over 200,000 people.
"Almost 79 per cent of the employees leaving a job are known to do so due to lack of appreciation. The average pay rise one gets out of shifting jobs is merely three per cent."
Elton, co-author of the critically acclaimed research The Carrot Principle, added that there exists a major perception gap on appreciation within organisations, with the top management often less convinced on the results of such an approach.
Speakers at the session also stressed the need for upgrading management techniques to modern day challenges.
"Much of what we know now as management was laid out in the early years of this century," said Gary Hamel, the renowned strategist, ranked as the 'World's most influential business thinker' by the Wall Street Journal.
"Today's management and managers need to adapt to the changing economic and social landscape," he added. – TradeArabia News Service


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Our other websites
Our other websitesSpillers Myspace page. Come and be our friend, see our pictures and videos. If you've got any questions about music or tickets we're selling you can send us a message too.
Spillers on Flickr. Instore pictures, and stuff that goes on in the shop.
Spillers YouTube. Videos of instore gigs, if we film them. See Gruff Rhys, William Elliott Whitmore and more.


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Selena Gomez Spotted Smoking & Flirting At Coachella? — Pics
Selena Gomez is definitely enjoying Coachella! The 'Come & Get It' Singer was spotted partying all night with Kylie Jenner, and while it was just the two of them at first, they were later approached by a Bieber look-alike!
Selena Gomez and Kylie Jenner appeared to have a great time at the Details At Midnight party at Coachella on April 11, an eyewitness told HollywoodLife.com exclusively. However, in new photos, we can see that not only was Selena chatting it up with another guy, she also had what looked like a cigarette in her hand!
Selena Gomez Smoking?
Kylie, 16, and Selena, 21, hung out in the Palm Springs House in a private VIP area by the pool at the big party on April 11, but we couldn't help but notice that Selena had something in her right hand that looked a lot like a cigarette. We talked about the shocking pic on our hit VH1 morning show, The Gossip Table, and you'll never believe what else we found out!
Get More:
The Gossip Table, Celebrity Gossip
See The Pics Of Selena Smoking
The pop star has never been spotted publicly smoking before so this comes as quite the surprise. However, in January she was spotted in L.A. purchasing a pack of cigarettes from a gas station, the day after boyfriend Justin Bieber was arrested for his DUI. Could she be stressed that he's not there?
Was Selena Flirting With A Justin Look-ALike?
It wasn't just the apparent smoking that caught our eye, but also a guy that approached Kylie and Selena's table, who Selena chatted with — he looked just like Justin! (See the pic here!)
He had on a flat brimmed red hat, a matching red shirt and get this — leather pants. That's totally Bieb's style.
While Kylie posted a pic with Selena writing "#girlstrip," it looks like there may be some boys involved. Especially since on April 13, Kylie posted a pic of her with her rumored beau, Jaden Smith. Since Jaden and Justin also happen to be BFFs, could there be a chance that Justin's meeting the girls at Coachella, too?
Well, never say never, right JB?
What do you think HollywoodLifers — do you think Selena was flirting at Coachella?
— Emily Longeretta


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Laurence Claus
Arlene Penticoff
(619) 260-6843
Professor of Law
Areas of Expertise
Comparative Law, Constitutional Interpretation, Constitutional Law, Contracts, Federal Courts, International Law
Professional Experience
Claus clerked for distinguished jurists in Australia and for the Honorable Frank H. Easterbrook of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit. He served for three years at the U.S. Embassy in London for the Office of Foreign Litigation, U.S. Department of Justice.
Professor Claus teaches constitutional law, comparative constitutional law, and contracts. He writes about public law and legal theory.
Honors and Affiliations
USD awarded Claus a University Professorship in 2013-14. He received the Herzog Endowed Scholar Award in 2007 and 2011, and won USD's Thorsnes Prize for Outstanding Legal Scholarship in 2008 and 2013.
Scholarly Work
"Law's Evolution and Human Understanding" in 51 San Diego Law Review 953 (2014); Law's Evolution and Human Understanding (Oxford University Press, 2012); "The Empty Idea of Authority" in 2009 University of Illinois Law Review 1301 (2009); "The One Court That Congress Cannot Take Away: Singularity, Supremacy, and Article III" in 96 Georgetown Law Journal 59 (2007); and "Montesquieu's Mistakes and the True Meaning of Separation" in 25 Oxford Journal of Legal Studies 419 (2005).


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It is entirely legal as both of these species are not-native to the USA.
Is there a law that makes it explicitly legal to make traps for non-native species? Or is it just not forbidden?
Texas has spelled out which are and aren't protected...http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/rehab/protected/I can certainly understand starlings and sparrows being on the non-protected list. They are a serious problem here.I wonder what a "feral pigeon" is?


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There is a delay when you´ve updated the folio, and when its actually completed in the Adobe Viewer.
Example. You can login and only half of the Folio is complete, so you have to log out, and then in again, then its maybe 75%.
A nice feature to make this process easier would be to place a update button in the library/adobe viewer?
Moved to feature request forum.


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Search Engine Optimisation (SEO)
If you need an online application developed to service multiple users in multiple locations with great functionality and reliability, see our web development section.
We provide a full range of web design services from the initial graphic design, through development of the code and platform, on to search marketing services.
Our aim is to provide service you need to get your business website noticed online and generating revenue - in plain English.
We'll help you get your website online and visible to potential visitors searching for your services online. Look at our search engine optimisation page for more information.
We have a range of SEO services to give your business the exposure you need, and in a language you understand.
Update your own website yourself with your own CMS, with no need to contact your web designer to publish fresh, new content on your website with your content management system..
Fully featured e-Commerce solutions are available to suit the budget of most small and medium sized businesses. You'll be impressed with the flexibility and power of your eCommerce website.
We love helping new businesses to get off the ground and help them on their way to success. Our Startup Websites will get your business online and visible to existing and potential clients.
If you have an existing site that needs a little 'TLC', we're happy to discuss making it more profitable - website maintenance.


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|2012-12-24, 08:40
|Link #5581
150% done
Join Date: Feb 2012
|2012-12-24, 11:38
|Link #5583
Ava courtesy of patchy
Join Date: Jan 2009
It's the culture. I once has a conversation with a Japanese friend of mine in China about a Chinese couple we passed by. My Japanese friend commented that when the Japanese saw a couple flirting in the open(the Chinese couple isn't even kissing, just cuddling on a bench), there will be a lot of comments from the passerby about the bakaple(from baka and couple). It seems that in Japan, you can do every pervert thing you can think of behind the doors, but you're socially expected not to do it in the open.
|2012-12-24, 11:45
|Link #5584
Emperor of the Expected
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
|2012-12-24, 16:43
|Link #5585
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
|2012-12-24, 19:52
|Link #5586
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
that is true I think in the end though he should honor them all and take responsibility it wont be in a legal way but more in a traditional way have a group wedding between the 4 of them !
each of them has made an unrevokeable pledge to him so in a way they are already married !
him taking this as the next step is really only logical to do !
|2012-12-24, 19:55
|Link #5587
Emperor of the Expected
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
Well Godou has become really lax with the boundaries with him and the harem. He close to the point where he doesn't find a problem with it no more, but he will still abide by laws of the normal world. Unless Godou threatens to destroy Japan, then he can marry all 4.
|2012-12-24, 20:15
|Link #5588
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
|2012-12-24, 21:01
|Link #5589
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Seriously thought it'll be an insane wedding if it's all 4 girls at same time. Uncle Paolli and Godou's grandpa in one place?(If I've learned anything from anime/tv shows it's that old people are overpowered. Ex: Master Roshi from Dragon Ball Z, or Uncle from Jackie Chan Adventures)
Hmm speaking of the family....I can't wait to see when when Godou has to visit the rest of the girl's families
|2012-12-24, 21:05
|Link #5590
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
I agree, the smaller the harem the more character focus there can be to develop the women in meaningful ways. Erica, Liliana, Yuri, Ena form a very manageable group. As for Godou, he is Campione. He can marry all four.
Also, being American born and raised, I do find the cultural differences in public displays of affection (PDA) to be rather interesting. Of course, it should be known that even most Americans are somewhat uncomfortable with it. That very classic line of "get a room" is used quite a bit. Still, I think we are less nerve wracked about hand holding, closely sitting together and cheek kissing. There is a pretty strong puritanical segment of American society, especially in our 'Bible Belt'.
Despite that, hooray for the girls!
|2012-12-24, 22:47
|Link #5591
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Also all I can say it's Godou for to go on a little rampage in Italy sends a nice message to all the magicial associations what happens if they mess with his ladies.
|2012-12-25, 03:55
|Link #5593
The Wanderer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Return of The Comeback
If we are talking about the future wedding of Godou and his 4 lovers,
Here are my concerns:
- I guess the wedding reception would be Japan and the Gals will be wearing either a traditional japanese wedding kimono or the western wedding dress.
They're still beatiful either way.
- for the guests, The HCC, the 4 families, Copper & bronze organizations, etc.
- I think the wedding will be kept a secret to normal people. Because there are many people will be angry at this event( Shizuka, Asuka, etc.)
I'm not sure if Lu Hao would attend in such crowded area. Maybe she'll visit him "when his alone". Doni will just crash the party for a duel.
- After they have wed, the ladies will wear wedding rings at school bu that will just attract attention and chaos from both sides.
- It's not hard to imagine that they'll be living in the same roof. Only they know where their future house and the HCC. So that Godou's relatives will not find out about it. It's for safety purposes for the wives to enjoy their time with Godou.
|2012-12-25, 08:10
|Link #5596
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
|2012-12-25, 08:55
|Link #5597
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
I dont mean break any laws more of a exchange of vows between the 4 of them!
thats what I mean after all its been done quite often where the lovers are not married legally but exchange vows between them and follow what would be the tradition if they were married and if they want to have his family name well that could be easy to legally add it to their own .
some people have been known to change their name so adding his to theirs is not really that far of a stretch .
|2012-12-25, 13:55
|Link #5599
150% done
Join Date: Feb 2012
|action, campione, ecchi, godslayer, harem, light novel, myth, romance, sd bunko, shounen, supernatural, time travel, true harem
|Thread Tools


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Leading Print Management Company Picks Alfresco For Fortune 1000 Publishing Needs
Proforma Global Finds Alfresco is More Robust and Less Costly Than Alternative Document Management Solutions
LONDON—October 22, 2007 – Alfresco Software, Inc., today announced that Proforma Global, a leading print management and workflow solution provider to the Fortune 1000, has selected Alfresco document management solution to help the company serve and collaborate with its global customers.
Proforma Global is a division of Proforma, a $300 million company with 650 offices worldwide. It provides some 30,000 clients with fully integrated solutions for both print and electronic communications, designed to serve its clients' industry-specific graphic communications, commercial printing, promotional and multimedia needs.
Proforma Global began using Alfresco to help one of its customers, which has locations in 40 different countries, collaborate on and update the look and content of product data sheets among scientists, project managers, graphic managers and marketing personnel throughout the world. Proforma Global is also using Alfresco for four other marketing asset management projects within the same company, ranging from managing the company's brand art to managing different projects for various divisions.
"We knew from the get-go that Alfresco is more robust and less costly than any of the content management alternatives we considered," said Paul Knipe, vice president of Operations, Proforma Global. "Alfresco is a great tool that we can use for a wide variety of opportunities. Its usefulness is only limited by our imagination. We plan to pitch Alfresco's content management and collaboration capabilities as a major part of our value add to every single one of our clients going forward."
"Proforma Global's use of Alfresco is an excellent example of the way we are revolutionizing the ability to provide dynamic publishing solutions," said John Powell, CEO, Alfresco Software Inc. "Alfresco couples the innovation of open source with the stability of a true enterprise-class ECM platform, and makes it simple to capture, search and collaborate on documents."
Alfresco has seen major adoption of its open source ECM system throughout the world. The company now has more than 300 customers, including the American Stock Exchange, Boise Cascade, Christian Science Monitor, the Federal Aviation Administration, Informa and the Nebraska State Legislature. The community version of Alfresco's open source ECM has been downloaded 700,000 times.


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Nikon D70 Firmware 2.0
Posted 16 May 2005 - 10:10 AM
Firmware 2.0 Nikon USA
UWPhotoNewbie: Not such a newbie to diving and UW photography.
Nikon D70: 60 mm, 11-16mm, 105mm, 15mm, 10.5mm
Ikelite iTTL Housing, dual Ikelite DS125
Nikon D600 topside 14-24, 28-300, 70-200, 35,50,85
Posted 16 May 2005 - 10:22 AM
Also some are claiming improved auto focus in all modes and improvements to noise performance at high ISO. These are completely unsubstantiated and not claimed by NIKON so you will have to see if this is irrational exuberance.
Nikons' Statement:
Issues addressed with firmware version 2.0
Performance of the 5-area AF system has been improved (Dynamic area and Closest subject AF-area modes).
Changes have been made to the design of menu displays.
Page-size settings can now be applied from the camera with direct printing from a PictBridge-compatible printer.
The number of exposures remaining, displayed in the control panel and viewfinder, when shooting at an image-quality setting of NEF (RAW) or NEF+JPEG Basic has been changed (the number is calculated based on the size of compressed RAW file).
Maximum number of exposures displayed when a 256-MB CompactFlash memory card is used:
Version 2.00: NEF (RAW): approx. 44 exposures; NEF+JPEG Basic: approx. 39 exposures
Version 1.03 or earlier: NEF (RAW): approx. 23 exposures; NEF+JPEG Basic: approx. 21 exposures
The default setting for camera clock has been changed from 2004.01.01 to 2005.01.01. Now you cannot set the clock back to a date before 2004.12.31.
A problem that sometimes caused communication between the camera and computer to be unexpectedly terminated when using Nikon Capture Camera Control has been corrected. (Windows)
Of these I think the improved autofocus and the fixed shot count are the most exciting. I never liked how the D70 handled shot count. I understood why it was like that but it was annoying.
UWPhotoNewbie: Not such a newbie to diving and UW photography.
Nikon D70: 60 mm, 11-16mm, 105mm, 15mm, 10.5mm
Ikelite iTTL Housing, dual Ikelite DS125
Nikon D600 topside 14-24, 28-300, 70-200, 35,50,85
Posted 16 May 2005 - 10:52 AM
Personally I'll wait few days with it to see that there aren't any side effects.
Nikon D200, Ikelite housing, Dual SB105.
Posted 16 May 2005 - 11:26 AM
Posted 16 May 2005 - 12:04 PM
Posted 17 May 2005 - 03:28 AM
I think AF is surely improved. It is fast & more accurate.
D500/D5 in modified Nexus housing
and EOS-1DS Mk3 in Seacam.
Posted 17 May 2005 - 08:11 AM
PS. Karl, let us know if you see any "improvement" with the new firmware. B)
Posted 21 May 2005 - 07:42 PM
Life is one long surface interval
Posted 23 May 2005 - 07:08 AM
Phone: 603-432-1997, Web: www.uwphoto.com
Posted 23 May 2005 - 07:25 AM
You have to copy first the A file and update the firmware, then delete this file from the card, copy the second one and update the B firmware.
Somehting that's not quite clear in the Nikon D70 Firmware 2.0 Updgrade instructions: When copying the firmware to the memory card make sure to copy the "A" Firmware and "B" Firmware separately (or use two cards). If you copy both "A" and "B" Firmware to the card together then only the "B" Firmware will be updated.
Since( as usual ) I didn't finished to read all the instructions, I copied the 2 files and it updated me only the B firmware and then after I deleted the B file and ran the update again its updated the A also with no problem.
Nikon D200, Ikelite housing, Dual SB105.
Posted 23 May 2005 - 08:22 AM
Posted 23 May 2005 - 08:35 AM
Posted 23 May 2005 - 04:29 PM
I doubt you have version 2.0. It was only released last week.
Anyone know offhand how to quick-check your firmware version? I am pretty sure mine was updated when purchased back in March, but I want to be positive.
"It's much better down there... It's a better place..." Enzo, Le Grand Bleu.


text:
Texhoma Christian Care Center
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Since 1980 we have cared for people whose physical conditions or limitations make it impossible for them to stay at home. We're here for you. You can talk to us anytime, with no obligation. We are happy to answer all your questions, discuss the special needs of your family member, and give you a tour of the campus.
You do not have to make an appointment or call ahead. Just drop by the Windmill Rehab Building and ask for the admissions department. We're waiting and ready to share with you the many features that make Texhoma Christian Care Center stand out in the nursing industry.
Our Mission Statement
It is the mission of Texhoma Christian Care Center to provide compassionate, caring, high quality nursing service to all entrusted in our care and deliver unparalleled service and quality in all support areas needed to fulfill this mission.


text:
Department of Duh: More House for Your Money in East Bay
And now we present yet another story about people having to move to the East Bay and insisting that it was a great idea.
Families flee S.F. for East Bay with cheaper homes
Carolyn Said, San Francisco Chronicle
Updated 9:45 pm, Saturday, September 7, 2013
"Family flight" out of San Francisco is nothing new. But now, real estate prices in the city have risen so steeply – much more so than in the East Bay – that there's an extra incentive for longtime San Francisco homeowners to cash out their equity and head across the bay seeking more house for less money.
After 20 years in San Francisco, John Perryand Rob Picciotto, along with their children, Ben and Louisa, and three dogs, transplanted themselves to Oakland. "I didn't think we would ever leave San Francisco, but a convergence of things made us consider moving," said Perry.
In 1998, Perry and Picciotto had stretched to buy their Bernal Heights house and make it work as their family grew. In June it sold for more than triple what they'd paid, a windfall that allowed them to pay cash for a less expensive house in Oakland's Leona Heights neighborhood in the hills above Mills College.
"We don't have a mortgage anymore, which is awesome," Perry said. "We doubled our square footage on more than an acre of land, and have phenomenal neighbors. Oakland is so diverse; it's a whole new world to learn and explore. There's more space, more mix."
We've pointed out many times in the past that the East Bay was not part of the Real Bay Area because it hasn't benefitted from the same batshit insane price increases found in places West of the Bay. Outmigration serves as a release valve on the price hikes. When SF gets too expensive compared to Oakland or Walnut Creek (two places mentioned as where SF sellers moved to), people will move East because they get more house for the money.
Three things of note from this article:
- Moving from SF to Silicon Valley will NOT gain you a damned thing. The prices have gone up just as much in Googleville. These bargains are only to be found in the Nickle and Dime or Nine and a Quarter area codes.
- The exact same newspaper has a another feature on how the batshit insane SF home prices are leveling off, which isn't exactly demonstrated by this piece.
- San Francisco has fewer residents under 18, by percentage, than any other major city. This really still remains as a Family Flight From 'Frisco story. The only difference is more people moving to Montclair instead of Marin.
This is also your Weekend Open Thread. Are you considering moving further afield because trading up where you already live is too expensive?


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Results 1 to 2 of 2
#1 Autumn Angst: Dems fret about Obama09-11-2008, 01:48 AM
Autumn Angst: Dems fret about Obama
Polls showing John McCain tied or even ahead of Barack Obama are stirring angst and second-guessing among some of the Democratic Partys most experienced operatives, who worry that Obama squandered opportunities over the summer and may still be underestimating his challenges this fall.
Its more than an increased anxiety, said Doug Schoen, who worked as one of Bill Clintons lead pollsters during his 1996 reelection and has worked for both Democrats and independents in recent years. Its a palpable frustration. Deep-seated unease in the sense that the message has gotten away from them.That shift in the publics perception of the issues, in Democratic pollster Celinda Lakes words, tremendously concerns meThe thing voters likely remember most from the period is Obamas July trip to Europe a trip that prompted the McCain campaigns focus on the issue of elitism and celebrity and that some Obama campaign officials now privately acknowledge was a mistake.
Their 50-state strategy is insanity, said Schoen. If they dont use their financial advantage where they need it most, he said, citing states from Ohio to Nevada, and put every thing there and blow it out, they are at deep risk of losing.A lot of Democratic elites thought this was a slam-dunk. And I thought, no its not, said Lake, the pollster. People in this town were already measuring drapes. And I was thinking, have you been in the real world lately?
If you have been involved in campaigns, you thought it was going to be close for a year, she added. And I think a lot of Democratic elites are waking up to that.
|« Previous Thread | Next Thread »


text:
The memories have begun to fade a bit as the decades roll by, but those who lived and worked in Hendersonville in the mid-1900s still recall vibrant details of "the most wonderful time of the year" in the mountains.
What was Christmas like on Main Street a half-century ago?
"It was a happy and friendly and busy time," said Mary Louise Barber, part of a longtime family business that began in 1884, when Arthur "Uncle Baker" Farrington Baker emigrated from London and opened a photography studio in Hendersonville catty-cornered from the Historic Courthouse.
Barber remembers fondly the holiday season while working in the family camera shop and photo studio at Main Street and Sixth Avenue, where First Citizens Bank now stands.
For starters, Main Street in the 1950s didn't have a serpentine layout, Barber said, and there were more merchants, including J.C. Penney and Belk department stores, "so it was rather bustling for a while."
"It was a friendly time as well," Barber said. "You knew your customers; the customers knew you; the merchants knew each other."
The holidays were so busy, in fact, that Becky Sherman Banadyga — daughter of Sherman's Sporting Goods proprietors Kalman and Francee Sherman — recalled hamburger lunches inside the family store from the Hot Spot, where her parents would get take-out to save time.
Back then, Sherman's sold toys and wrapped them for 88 cents apiece.
"Favorites were things like Tonka Toys and Erector Sets, Lincoln Logs, Betsy Wetsy, Barbie dolls," said Banadyga, who still runs Sherman's Sports on North Main and Second Avenue with her husband, Rex. "You didn't have credit cards, so people saved up their money to go shopping in December; it wasn't like you spread it out all year."
Other downtown holiday recollections by Banadyga include Christmas lights running along wires across the street rather than along it, and that it was a big deal when Belk began opening on Friday nights; stores on Main Street were not open in the evening.
Banadyga also recalls schoolchildren visiting churches and other local venues to sing Christmas carols, and families lining up in their cars at the GE plant in East Flat Rock to enjoy the spectacle of the company's Christmas light display.
Further up Main Street, Barber remembers wrapping presents with large bows on them for customers of the camera shop, where family photos and portraits made for popular gifts.
"Every family had their different traditions and their different ways of how to manage Christmas," Barber said. "And families would visit one another. But sometimes they were too far to get there, so there were more letters, there were more cards. And, of course, we didn't have email, and we didn't have cameras on the back of telephones, so it was kind of nice to get a picture of your relatives at Christmas.
"And that still happens; it was just a different process (back then). You actually brought your 35-millimeter film in, or whatever you had, and had that developed. If it was color, we sent it to Kodak in Atlanta. If it was black and white, which most of them in the 1950s was, we did it in our processing plant." According to Barber, merchants kept busy during the holiday season driving business through window decorations, adding stock, getting creative with advertising and offering specials. They also were bolstered by a popular radio show on WHKP called "Merry Christmas Shop with Mary Barber," featuring Mary Louise's mother, in which various merchants in town from gift shops to grocery stores got a chance to discuss their Christmas merchandise.
Meanwhile, local historian and Times-News columnist Tom Orr said he will always associate Christmas with Cal's Home and Auto Supply on North Main Street, where the Black Rose Pub now stands.
In addition to B.F. Goodrich products such as tires, batteries and small household appliances, store owner Cal Kuykendall, who served as the first executive director of the local Merchants Association, according to Orr, also featured a "knockout" of a bicycle on display above the main entrance door that Orr's parents eventually bought him for Christmas.
Kuykendall died of cancer in 1979, but not before leaving a legacy of Christmas spirit that will forever stay with Orr and many others who grew up around here in the early to mid-20th century.
"The WHKP Santa Claus was a fixture in the store for many years, (and) Cal's Toyland was the best anyone had ever seen," Orr said. "Cal took particular delight celebrating this time of year."
Christmases past were bustling times
The memories have begun to fade a bit as the decades roll by, but those who lived and worked in Hendersonville in the mid-1900s still recall vibrant details of "the most wonderful time of the year" in the mountains.


text:
Jail escapees back in custody
Jail escapees back in custody
CLINTON, Iowa —
Both men now face escape charges.
Authorities have captured the second of two men who escaped from an eastern Iowa jail.
The Clinton County Sheriff's Office says Clinton County deputies took Kyle Julian back into custody around 12:20 a.m. Monday. He was taken from a vehicle that was stopped on U.S. Highway 30 just west of Lowden.
Julian and Kendrell Keith escaped from the jail in Clinton around 4:40 p.m. Saturday. Keith was captured in Clinton late Saturday night. Both men are 18.
Keith had been jailed pending prosecution on a theft charge. Julian is charged with a felony probation violation.
Both men now face escape charges.


text:
I have RRD kites and the RRD Global V3 bar. I've been in several sketchy situations recently with punching out and the kite not depowering.
Yesterday I went to the park so I could work on this in a more controlled way and explore the problem further. I flew my 9m kite, brought it to the edge of the wind window, and punched out. The kite just sat there at the edge of the window, canopy filled up, as if I were launching. In the process of trying to wrap my lines, the kite never "flagged"; it tumbled, wrapping itself in the lines, rose up into the air upside down, and eventually went into a death loop. This is similar behavior to what I had experienced on the water. I was able to secure the kite without further chaos, but this is obviously not acceptable.
My previous kite flagged out to one line and when I punched out, it truly released all power and turned into a piece of flopping cloth. So I think this is an issue with the two-line setup. Or maybe it's an RRD issue--I'm not really sure.
Have you been in similar situations, and have complete confidence that you can self-rescue without any of these issues? If so, how did you achieve this? Any thoughts on what I can do to remedy this (aside from getting different gear)? I've already spoken to the local RRD experts and they claim that the kite flags completely when you punch out and that they've heard no complaints about this.


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|November 7, 2012, 08:29 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: September 1, 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 284
2012 Election and Rules for L&CR
Moderators Note: Read through to post #13, before you decide to reply to this thread. Al Norris.
There are many of us who are concerned about what the aftermath of last night's election means for gun owners and the Second Amendment. I've already seen two threads closed because the moderators were concerned about the direction or tone those threads were taking. I didn't see anything offensive in either of those threads and am concerned the Moderators may be a little overzealous in their approach. As long as we are discussing issues with no ad homiem attacks...isn't this the proper thread for such discussion?
Some of my fellow gun enthusiasts say that President Obama was the best thing that ever happened to the firearms industry (in terms of increased sales and the number people involved in recreational shooting). They usually follow that up by saying Obama didn't do anything to hurt us in his first term; why should we expect anything different in his second?
But the fact is Obama is now unencumbered, by having to be re-elected. Don't be surprised if we start hearing about "common sense & reasonable" gun control in the near future. Obama sincerely believes that crime can be reduced by making the public's access to firearms more difficult and expensive. I am curious as to what others may think; and if as long as the discussion is done in a civil and respectful way, will the moderators allow it to continue?
Last edited by Al Norris; November 7, 2012 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Added a warning
|November 7, 2012, 08:36 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,013
I am pretty sure that most of the forum members are too stunned or depressed to discuss right now.
NRA Life Member
USN Retired
|November 7, 2012, 08:40 AM
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Join Date: January 24, 2010
Location: South West Riverside County California
Posts: 2,763
We can only have "PC" discussions which is the right of the board owner(s). They pay for it not me.
|November 7, 2012, 08:43 AM
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Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,171
I'm just concerned about what this means for those of us who are just getting into the sport.
I don't have the disposable income to really get into the game as much as I'd like to. However, I'm not dillusional or naive enough to not believe that the topic of gun control will come up sooner or later.
With the House still held by Reps and the Senate held by the Dem' it's going to be tough for both parties to get anything passed.
We shall see, honestly, I'll remain vigilant regardless and for better or worse, I'll just try to ride out the storm and hope things get better. If not, well, I'll at least have one rifle to help defend me and my own.
|November 7, 2012, 08:58 AM
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Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
I agree it would be nice to have an open if separate sub-forum to discuss issues related to gun rights that are political. To pretend like politics itself is not one of the biggest things impacting anything and everything guns is refusing to see the whole picture.
On the other hand, I see the point of the mods. While a lot of us can have a rational discussion; the moderators are concerned every topic will eventually turn into an "XXXXXX is a poopy pants commie African who hates America and guns" discussion and that would become too overwhelming to moderate effectively. Ontop of that they do not want to alienate forum members who might happen to support politicians who are not very popular with the gun community in general.
Last edited by Patriot86; November 7, 2012 at 09:04 AM.
|November 7, 2012, 09:08 AM
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Join Date: January 24, 2010
Location: South West Riverside County California
Posts: 2,763
A separate forum that lets people blow-off some steam makes sense for me. Works well over at Cast Boolits,Graybeard, Lever Guns, etc, But other sites choose not to have them and are still very popular. It is not our call. This is a good forum with or without political/religious forums.
|November 7, 2012, 09:23 AM
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Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,118
It's a single-issue forum. That's what Rich wants, and since Rich pays for it, he should get it.
I think everyone should chill for a bit, walk away for a couple of days, and let the reality sink in that they (whoever "they" are) aren't going to get another AWB or anything like it through Congress.
Once we all understand that, then we can have a rational discussion... But until everyone gets it through their heads, we'll have those that ruin otherwise productive threads/discussions.
Let's wait for the weekend, possibly Monday, shall we?
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
|November 7, 2012, 09:35 AM
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Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,171
What JG said. As I had mentioned before, the house and senate are just as they were before the elections, and regardless of who sits in the big chair, they're in for an up hill battle if they want to try and push anything through, be it gun control or otherwise unless both sides come together and agree on something, and given the state of things, that's not very likely.
|November 7, 2012, 09:58 AM
Join Date: October 9, 2012
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 21
While the house majority may be able to run interference for us, the Prez will not hesitate to use "executive order" to achieve his agenda.
The elder Bush set the example when his order stopped the import of inexpensive rifles.
I think we can look forward to similar actions by the present administration.
|November 7, 2012, 10:22 AM
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Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
Keep your eye on the ball; most of our "victories" have not come through legislations per say but through litigation. Be more concerned about the SCOTUS and the lower courts. The rest is just a smoke screen.
The bottom line is anti-gun states will keep trying to pass anti-gun laws until the courts do or do not stop them. Pro-gun states will keep passing pro-gun laws and as stated above the House will keep any federal anti-gun laws in check at least for another two years.
|November 7, 2012, 10:29 AM
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 19,724
Our rules are to be NON-political. There are other forums to discuss such.
L and CR is for the practical questions about L and CR and theoretical discussions of such, not partisan politics. If there is legislative movement to do XY or Z we can discuss it.
I do say that such discussions fall apart quickly and lead to infractions and bans, as seen in the past.
Thus, as you might see this coming, I'm closing it.
The staff can discuss it.
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
|November 7, 2012, 10:37 AM
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,632
Stand by.
|November 7, 2012, 11:51 AM
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,632
I'm going to attempt to answer a few things here, not necessarily in the order they were asked (or stated).
If that is what you are calling, "PC," then you have a very short sighted view of the meaning of that term.
There have been some purely political discussion threads here, in the past 4 years. Yes, they have been very few and far between. That will remain to be the way things are. As Glenn wrote when he initially closed this thread:
Will politics intrude? Of course! Yet we hope to keep it as minimal as we can. I simply will not stand for the rancor that caused the closing of the old Legal and Political forum, and its self-destruction.
Those of you that were here at that time, know exactly what I'm saying... Which s a good time to address the OP:
As for the other thread closures, I can only speak to the one I closed here. The voting thread. That was closed as a pre-emptory move, since the polls were (essentially) closed, and the discussion began to turn towards the strickly political "chicken little" side... Yup. I closed it.
Now I try to be fair and open minded. But my experience as a moderator comes into play, here. It is just that experience that causes me to frown on certain threads and to close them when I can see a clear direction that they are headed. The "Get Out and Vote" thread was clearly headed in that direction.
Do valid topics get shut down? Yes, they do. If they weren't, then even more members would get banned, simply because they let their emotions get the better of their good sense. Hence, there is no "Free for All" at the Firing Line.
With all of this being said, I'm going to reopen this thread. It will be the only thread at TFL to discuss the results of this election cycle.
This is going to mean that if you cannot restrain your comments so as not to attack your fellow members, simply because they don't agree with you or that they don't hold to your beliefs, then you will be banned. No recourse. No second chance.
|November 7, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Join Date: May 5, 2010
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 468
was watching Fox yesterday midday, and judge napolatono (sp?) noted that if congress and the president didn't change (and they didn't), there would be no new laws passed affecting guns, the house simply wouldn't go with it, but the president may try to enact his policy via rule making. the example he gave was of the EPA finding that lead was a dangerous substance, and because most ammo has lead, ta da, no more ammo.
we'll have to keep a close eye on 'rule making', but it wouldn't surprise me that either by rule or by executive order the president tries to clamp down on guns and ammo.
|November 7, 2012, 12:18 PM
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Join Date: September 1, 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 284
Al Norris:
Thank you for your response. I'm fairly new to TFL and was not here to witness some of the problems you may have had to deal with in the past. I do hope that as long as members take the high road of civility, that we can responsibly discuss matters of law regarding firearms as these issues come up.
|November 7, 2012, 12:20 PM
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,632
1-DAB, in that respect, there can be no such rule making. Lead, for use in ammo, is explicitly protected by law: Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976, a law in which Congress expressly exempted ammunition.
The EPA can do nothing if the Congress does not repel that section of the law.
|November 7, 2012, 12:29 PM
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Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 468
perhaps the judge picked a poor example, but nonetheless, the only route left to the president is rule making and executive orders. and with a split congress, nothing will get thru the senate, thus, congress cannot undo whatever they may object to.
i won't put it past this president to assemble some clever people and find something in the law that gives him an opening. he did it with work for welfare, and that was against the way the law was written. he will make rules and issue orders and let those who oppose take the action to court, where it will take years to reach a decision about whether the president exceeded his authority or not. meanwhile, the rule or order will stand and we all will get to have it apply to our lives.
|November 7, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,395
The danger is, the president only needs the Senate to sign treaties and to appoint judges.
THR and TFL and APS still share a lot of membership, and even moderators. So it would be a good place to spillover to when this thread eventually gets closed. Come back here to talk gunz and stuff.
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
|November 7, 2012, 01:09 PM
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Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
The president established a long gun registry specifically in violation of the law in certain SW states via EO did he not? This would appear to violate the FOPA.
We cannot rely on the letter of the law alone to stop EO's. I am not really sure what we do about EO's actually, besides punish the offending party in the midterm elections. What judicial recourse do we have for EO's that violate the law? I think we need to take a wait and see attitude because nothing is going to stop EO's. Its pointless to fret about what could be.
Last edited by Patriot86; November 7, 2012 at 01:20 PM.
|November 7, 2012, 01:31 PM
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Location: Minden , Nebraska
Posts: 1,404
the thing that concerns me most as Obama will probably have a chance to nominate at least one if not two supreme court judges which are lifetime appointments. that scares me a lot
|November 7, 2012, 01:48 PM
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,632
Patriot, I agree, we need not speculate on things that could be. A lot of things, could be. Just as many won't or never will be.
As you may know, the 4-State rifle reporting requirement is under litigation (Item #54 in the 2A Cases thread). That may or may not go our way. However it may go, it will resolve that particular item. That fact that you and I (and the NSSF and NRA) may think it unlawful, there is actually a rebutable premise that the ATF does have that authority. We shall see.
Stevno, Judicial appointments (not just the SCOTUS, but district and circuit courts) is the single biggest thing, to my mind. Whatever else happens, these appointments are for life and if the trend continues (the trend of appointing younger judges), then we will be saddled with judges whose ideology will endanger the gains made., for years to come.
|November 7, 2012, 01:50 PM
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Posts: 3,687
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
|November 7, 2012, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,320
One hope with respect to younger judges and life-time apointments, is the reality that as we age, we become more and more conservative in our beliefs. I know this generalization is just that, but I do hope that the current rulings on the 2A are given plenty of time before they are revisited. I also hope the current court sees fit to expand on them prior to current justices being replaced.
I would really like to see how the two new judges truely feel about the 2A and its individual rights before I write them off.
Go Pokes!
Go Rams!
|November 7, 2012, 04:39 PM
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Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,171
So if the house re-elects every two years, I have roughly two years to get as many of the toys I want before things may become risky.
No pressure eh? Naw I'm kidding, but seriously, I agree that we need to wait and see what happens. If we're lucky, the new judges of the SCOTUS will be more in favor of supporting the 2A. With Obama being the one who chooses who will be assigned for the task of replacing some of them though, the liklihood I feel may not be all that great.
It's too early to really say, I just hope that we all turn out to be worrying for nothing.
|November 7, 2012, 04:48 PM
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 19,724
It is hard to see a massive change in the house in the next 2 year election cycle. Nor does the Senate seem likely have a filibuster proof majority in 2 years.
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
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Expert Reviews
2012 Mini Cooper
The Mini Cooper delivers agile handling, crisp performance and an interminably cute bulldog appearance in a tidy, efficient, front-wheel drive package, with plenty of space and comfort for front seat passengers.
The number of Mini Cooper body styles has expanded to include Hardtop, Clubman, Coupe, Convertible, and Roadster versions, all similar in terms of mechanicals, structure, front sheetmetal, and interiors. All ride on the same 97-inch wheelbase except the Clubman, a stretched version that rides on a 100-inch wheelbase.
The styling of the Mini Coopers was freshened for 2011 with new bumper, tail light and wheel designs. The front ends were also reshaped to meet new requirements for pedestrian safety.
For 2012, updates for the Mini Cooper models were confined to cosmetics, including a new line of trim options aimed at giving owners more opportunity to individualize their cars. Offered as a new collection of custom options called Mini Yours, the choices include a two-tone leather-clad instrument panel with fancy stitching; a two-tone leather steering wheel; Soda pattern Lounge Leather upholstery; 17-inch aluminum alloy wheels; and new interior and exterior colors.
The 2012 Mini Baker Street and the Mini Bayswater are special edition Hardtop models with expressive design features and exclusive equipment influenced by contemporary London style as the city prepares for the Olympic Games. Mini Baker Street is oriented around the fresh, youthful style of the brand, and comes with the 118-hp Mini Cooper engine. Mini Bayswater is focused on the sporting verve and agile handling for which the Mini is renowned and is available with either the Mini Cooper engine or the 172-hp Mini Cooper S engine.
The Mini Coopers are powered by a 1.6-liter four-cylinder engine available in three levels of power output. All Minis are available with an optional 6-speed automatic.
The Mini Cooper models come standard with a 1.6-liter four-cylinder engine rated at 121 horsepower and 114 pound-feet of torque. This engine works best with the standard 6-speed manual transmission, which adds to the sportiness and makes the Mini Cooper fun to drive. Acceleration performance isn't quick but it's adequate. The Mini Cooper delivers excellent fuel economy, earning an EPA rating of 29/37 mpg City/Highway, or 28/36 mpg with the automatic. Premium gasoline is required, however.
The Mini Cooper S models come with a turbocharged version of the same engine that generates 181 horsepower and a substantial 177 pound-feet of torque, making it one of the world's most powerful engines for its size. All the Minis are fun to drive, but in Cooper S trim they deliver exhilarating performance and nimble handling that's most easily appreciated on a twisty back road. With all that torque, this engine works well with the automatic though we still prefer the manual for sportiness. In spite of the significant performance difference, fuel economy is still excellent, earning an EPA-estimated 27/35 mpg or 26/34 mpg with the automatic. Premium gasoline is required.
The Mini Cooper Hardtop is quite practical when viewed as a two-seat car with cargo capacity. The front seats are very comfortable and supportive seats, and they are large enough to accommodate all sizes of drivers and front passengers. With its hatchback and folding rear seats, the Hardtop can haul reasonable amounts of gear. It has a two-place rear seat, but it is hard to climb into and offers very limited leg room. The back seats are best left for small children or, better yet, stuff.
Those who want more room might choose the Mini Cooper Clubman, which is essentially a small station wagon. The Clubman is 9.4 inches longer overall than the Hardtop, and 3.2 inches longer in wheelbase. The extra wheelbase converts to more rear legroom, making it more practical for rear-seat passengers. Access to the rear seat is eased by a third, rear-hinged door on the passenger side. The Clubman also features side-hinged swing-out doors at the back, for easy access to the cargo area, though they don't improve the appearance.
A wide range of styling options allows owners to personalize their cars, and it's a major part of Mini's appeal. The choices cover upholstery style, material and color; exterior graphics; trim pieces; ambient lighting; and exterior paint, including contrasting colors for the roof. Functional options include high-end features like adaptive Xenon headlights, rear obstacle warning and a navigation system. The basic Minis are reasonably priced, starting under $20,000. Check too many options, however, and the ticket can soar into luxury territory, approaching $40,000.
The most expensive Minis are the high-performance John Cooper Works models. The JCW models play on the brand's heritage as a multiple rally and touring-car racing champion in the 1960s. With 208 horsepower, 192 pound-feet of torque and ultra-firm suspension tuning, the JCW package turns the Mini Cooper into a little hot rod, just the thing for charging up the Monte Carlo stages. The JCW package is available for all models (except the Mini Countryman crossover). For 2012, the Mini Cooper JCW performance package includes the aero body kit as standard equipment.
Mini Coopers offer a great combination of style, driving fun, low operating costs and practicality. Engineered by BMW, Mini Coopers come standard with as much safety equipment as any small car available.
Model LineupMini Cooper Hardtop ($19,500); Cooper S Hardtop ($23,100); John Cooper Works Hardtop ($29,900); Clubman ($21,200); Clubman S ($24,900); John Cooper Works Clubman ($31,400); Cooper Convertible ($24,950); Cooper S Convertible ($27,950); John Cooper Works Convertible ($34,100)
Walk Around
The Mini Cooper lineup has multiplied since this second-generation version was launched as a 2007 model. Each new variant has been a bit different than the standard two-door Hardtop, as Mini calls the hatchback version. Yet none of the subsequent models will be mistaken for anything other than a close sibling to the chic, irrepressible cute Hardtop, or for that matter any Mini model sold since the brand was re-introduced in 2000.
All Mini models were freshened a bit front and rear for 2011. The updates include new bumper designs and tail lights, and five new wheel designs. Also, the front ends were reshaped, primarily to meet new requirements for pedestrian safety.
The Mini Convertible closely resembles the standard Hardtop, and matches its dimensions. The soft-top maintains the same basic silhouette as the Hardtop, though the heated glass rear window is tilted farther forward. The rear side windows are about a third of the size of those on the Hardtop because the cloth top wraps farther around the sides of the car. When the Convertible top is down, it stacks at the back of the car. The look is fine, but it blocks the driver's lower line of sight to the rear.
The Convertible's insulated fabric roof opens at the touch of a button in just 15 seconds at speeds up to 18 mph, which is very convenient. There are no latches to unhook, simply press the button. A sliding roof function opens just the portion of the top that's over the front seats. It's like a big sunroof that can be opened at speeds up to 75 mph.
The Clubman is identical to the Mini Cooper Hardtop from the front bumper to the back of the doors. Of its 9.4 inches of added length, 3.1 inches are located behind the doors and in front or the rear wheels, increasing rear legroom by a roughly equal amount. Another 6.3 inches are found behind the rear wheels, for more cargo space, but the Clubman still manages to keep a wheels-pushed-to-the-corners look.
The two biggest changes with the Clubman, compared to the Mini Cooper Hardtop, are the substitution of split rear barn doors at the back and the addition of a rear access door on the passenger side. The right-side access door, called the Clubdoor, is a rear-hinged demi-door that doesn't open independently of the front passenger door and provides easier access to the back seat. At the rear of the car, the handles for the split rear doors are placed together where the doors join. The rear glass is fixed and does not open.
Mini Cooper S models are distinguishable from the standard versions, no matter the body style. Black mesh grilles replace the shiny bars, lower brake ducts with optional chrome frames guide cooling air toward the brake discs. Most noticeable is the chrome-ringed hood scoop on Cooper S models.
The current group of Minis represents the second generation of the re-launched brand, but Mini heritage dates to the late 1950s. The original was a landmark design by Alec Issigonis for the British Motor Corporation. With its transverse front engine, front-wheel drive and surprisingly roomy interior, it changed the game in minimalist transportation. It became even more famous for winning the Monte Carlo Rally. Production of the original Mini finally ended in the 1990s.
BMW revived the marque with a totally new Mini Cooper in Europe for the 2000 model year. It was completely redesigned for the 2007 model year.
Mini interiors were updated for 2011 with new features and materials and improved noise counter-measures, and the 2012 Mini Yours line of optional upgrades lend an opportunity for owners to personalize and upgrade their cars. Mini affords numerous interior trim options that can give each one an individual character.
All Mini Cooper cabins are charming with excellent finish. The plastics have a quality look and feel. This also goes for the base Leatherette upholstery (vinyl). Multiple leather options are available, including a cloth and leather combination, a full leather option, and the glove soft Lounge Leather with contrasting piping, similar to classic British sedans. Ambient lighting is standard on most models, and it softly illuminates the door panels and footwells with subtle LEDs. The driver can change the color of the lighting across a spectrum from soft orange to crisp blue.
Despite diminutive exterior dimensions, Mini cabins are surprisingly spacious up front. Even a 6-foot, 5-inch driver can be comfortable in the front seat. The basic manual levers, controlling height, seatback rake, and front-rear travel, allow just about everyone to easily find a comfortable spot.
The Mini driving position is excellent. We found the seats comfortable for long-distance trips, and they're nicely bolstered to keep you in place when you inevitably hustle through the turns. The available sport seats are even better.
A round, plastic transmitter replaces a conventional ignition key. It slides into a slot next to the steering column, and the driver fires the engine by pressing the adjacent a start/stop button. The button is cute and inoffensive, but no more effective than a standard key. The optional proximity key allows the driver to leave the transmitter in purse or pocket and just press the start button. We'd prefer a traditional key, but that's not an option.
All models follow Mini's sporty tradition of a big, round speedometer in the center of the dash. The tachometer is mounted on the tilt/telescoping steering column, moving with the wheel as it's adjusted it up and down. The Convertible has a unique Openometer next to the tach. It tracks the number of hours you drive with the top down and displays the owner's enthusiasm for open-cockpit motoring, a cute feature.
Heating and air conditioning controls sit below the speedo, and they're straightforward in base models. The available automatic climate control system is cleverly configured in the shape of the winged Mini logo. The switch layout is generally effective, though sometimes it's a bit too clever.
The audio controls sacrifice ease of use for design symmetry. The tuning knob is centered with most other audio buttons at the bottom of the speedometer, while the volume control sits further down the center stack, closer to the HVAC controls. At first, you may find yourself changing the station when what you really want is to turn up the volume. The integrated design of the audio controls makes it nearly impossible to fit any aftermarket sound system, and the buttons are obviously plastic, with a matte-gray in finish, and detract from the otherwise high-quality interior appointments.
A retro touch, chrome toggle switches that look like something out of an airplane or racecar cockpit, are positioned at the base of the center stack to control the windows, auxiliary lights, and stability-control system. The toggles are duplicated above the rearview mirror to control interior lights, the optional sunroof and the Convertible top. The steering-column stalk switches for wipers and turn signals are pleasing to look and satisfying to use.
The navigation or Mini Connected systems add a rectangular 6.5-inch video screen in the central speedometer, with a digitally generated speed needle around its perimeter. Maps are stored on a built-in flash drive. Both Mini Connected and the full nav system add Bluetooth connectivity and a USB port, and they make it easy to integrate mobile devices. Audio can be streamed via Bluetooth, and album cover artwork and mobile-phone caller lists can be displayed on the monitor. BMW is a leader in this area.
Interior storage space is not abundant, but it's adequate. There are bins in the door panels, map pockets on the front seatbacks, a small center-console bin and an average-size glovebox. The glovebox can be cooled with the air conditioning, and it's enough to keep a bottled drink reasonably cool, or to keep chocolate bars from turning to mush. The optional Center Rail storage and fastening system replaces the standard center console with two aluminium rails running lengthwise through the middle of the interior. Various accessories, including cupholders, storage boxes, trays or armrests can be locked anywhere along the rails to the occupants' preference.
In the Mini Cooper Hardtop, the rear seat is barely habitable for adults, and only for very short rides. Access to it is anything but convenient. The Convertible has even less rear leg room, 28.1 inches compared to 29.9 inches, so adults or even children won't fit back there unless the front seats are moved far forward.
The Clubman offers more interior space. Its additional wheelbase length translates into additional legroom for rear-seat passengers, and those in back have more shoulder room, as well. The Clubdoor makes the Clubman's rear seat of the Clubman much easier to access from the passenger side. A slot was added on the door for 2011 that keeps the front seatbelt out of the way when rear passengers duck in. The third door is particularly handy for parents who need to deal with child safety seats.
The Convertible has the least cargo space of the Mini models. Room in the trunk doesn't change when the top is lowered, which is good, but there is only 6.0 cubic feet of space to begin with, which is bad, and hard to use, which is also bad. The rear seats fold down, and Mini claims that opens up 23.3 cubic feet of space. But that space is hard to get to, and big items won't slide in behind the front seatbacks or through the short trunk opening. In short, the Mini Convertible is an impractical car.
The Hardtop, with its large rear hatch and separate folding rear seatbacks, does better as a cargo hauler. With the rear seats in place, there's a miniscule 5.7 cubic feet of storage, enough for an airline roll-aboard and a brief case. But with the rear seats folded down, cargo volume expands to a readily accessible 24 cubic feet. That's more than enough for two passengers on long trip.
The Clubman provides a more usable 9.2 cubic feet behind the rear seats, and a shade-type, pullout cargo cover is provided. With the rear seatbacks folded, it presents a flat load floor and nearly 33 cubic feet of space. The Split Rear Barn Doors are hinged on the rear pillars and open out, providing wide access.
Forward vision is excellent in all Minis, at least when the road ahead is clear. Given the Mini's diminutive size, larger cars can block the view in the same way big SUVs can block the view from the driver's seat of midsize sedan.
Rear sightlines are good in the Hardtop. The Convertible has a couple of issues, however. When the top is down, the lower portion of the driver's rearward line of sight is compromised. With the top up, its corners block vision in the rear quarters. Backing out of a parking spot can be a challenge, making the Park Distance Control warning system an important option. In the Clubman, the line where the rear barn doors join is a bit of a distraction in the rearview mirror.
Driving Impressions
We've driven all the Mini Coopers on race tracks, streets and highways around the world, and rank them among the most fun and responsive front-wheel-drive cars available, enhanced by outstanding real-world fuel economy. All Minis have a basic sporting character. Yet most are quite comfortable as daily drivers.
The current-generation Mini, introduced as a 2007 model, is in nearly all respects a better car than the version that re-launched the brand in the U.S. as a 2001 model. It's even easier and safer to drive quickly, and benefits from changes to the suspension and increased engine torque.
For 2011, Mini upgraded its 1.6-liter inline four-cylinder engine across the line. The changes were aimed at improving efficiency, with less engine weight and friction, accessories that sap less power, and BMW's full, no-throttle Valvtronic variable valve timing. Still, engine output has increased slightly.
The 1.6-liter engine in standard Mini Coopers delivers 121 hp at 6000 rpm, 114 pound-feet of torque at 4250 rpm. The turbocharged 1.6-liter in Cooper S models generates 181 hp at 5500 rpm, with a minimum 177 lb-ft available from 1600-5000 rpm, plus an overboost feature that will deliver 192 lb-ft in short bursts. The extra-racy John Cooper Works models peak at 208 hp at 6000 rpm, 192 pound-feet of torque at 1850-5000 rpm plus an overboost delivering 207 pound-feet when needed. Measured by specific output, a technical label for the amount of power an engine delivers for its size, the Mini JCW four is one of the most powerful engines in any automobile.
Mini touts its new Mini Coupe (reviewed separately) as the quickest member of the lineup, but we think the Hardtop is the best body style from a driving standpoint. It seems the most fun to drive in the purest sense.
Mini says the Hardtop hits 60 from a stop in 8.4 seconds, which is not particularly quick, while the Mini Cooper S performs this feat in 6.6 seconds, which is quick.
The turbocharged Mini Cooper S engine reacts almost instantly to the gas pedal, with only the tiniest hint of turbo lag, and produces satisfying acceleration at all speeds. Its steady, even power delivery across a wide rpm range is impressive, as we've learned in a race track test drive, as well as public road experience.
Cooper S models come with a sport-tuned suspension, but their behavior is still quite refined, and more so than some other cars capable of similar track speeds. With a MacPherson strut front suspension and multi-link rear suspension, the Cooper S is flat and stable in corners, and absorbs small bumps and joints without discomforting passengers. With front-wheel drive, the car never feels at risk of spinning out, even with radical changes in throttle position or braking in the middle of corners.
A key factor in the Mini's sporting feel is its electromechanically assisted steering, which uses an electric motor, instead of a hydraulic pump, for steering assist. Despite the fuel-saving electric power assist, the steering shaft is still mechanically connected to the steering box, so the driver continues to enjoy great feel for the road. This system also varies the steering ratio and effort according to speed.
The effect of the electric steering is most apparent in tight, slow parking lot maneuvers, where very little effort or wheel motion is needed to make large changes in direction. In comparison, at highway speeds an equal rotation of the steering wheel results in smaller and less sensitive directional changes. Another advantage of electrically assisted steering, from the performance perspective, is that steering ratios can be optimized for various portions of a curve, and not just varied with vehicle speed. In the Mini, this means that the initial turn into a corner is cushioned slightly, so the car doesn't feel as go-kart twitchy as the previous generation. It feels a bit numb on center.
The 6-speed automatic transmission works reasonably well with both the standard and turbocharged engines. Paddles on the steering wheel let the driver override the automatic and shift manually; and when the driver stops using them, the transmission reverts to Drive, picking the gears itself. Automatics also come with a Sport mode button that switches to a more aggressive shift algorithm that holds gears longer to keep more power on tap. On all models, the Sport button quickens throttle response and chooses a quicker steering ratio.
The 6-speed manual gearbox offers more driver engagement than the automatic and wrings the most from the Mini's small engine. We strongly recommend the manual for the low-powered base models, and prefer it for the high-powered models. It's crisp, precise, and makes the driving experience more fun.
Mini brakes are first-rate. The four-wheel discs are large for cars of the Mini's weight, and they provide quick, stable stops with good, consistent pedal feel. They're also managed by one of the slickest control programs in small cars. Both the base and S models benefit from Mini's brake cornering control, which can use the ABS to apply individual brakes to inside wheels to help get the car through a corner.
The Convertible is almost as sporty as the Hardtop. This latest version handles better than the previous-generation, thanks to a stronger body structure that substantially reduces cowl shake and body shimmy.
The Clubman is nearly as fun to drive as the regular Mini Cooper Hardtop, and its extra length is an advantage in some ways. The longer wheelbase makes the Clubman a bit more stable in turns. The Hardtop is slightly more eager in quick changes of direction, but the Clubman is still nimble compared to similarly sized cars in tight quarters.
On the road, most drivers should find the Clubman a little more comfortable than the Hardtop. The longer wheelbase makes for smoother ride quality. If ride comfort is a top priority, the Countryman should be the Mini Cooper of choice.
Tires play a crucial role in the Mini ride-quality equation, and there is a variety of tires to choose from. All-season tires on the smaller rims deliver the most comfortable ride. This is most obvious in the Convertible, which tends to emphasize road shock and shakes. The run-flat performance tires on the Mini Cooper S Convertible with a Sport Package made us dread the early spring potholes blooming on Chicago streets. Be sure to actually drive a car with the sports suspension and big rims, regardless of the Mini variant, before buying. They may make the ride too stiff for some tastes.
The Mini Cooper models are nimble and visually unique. In Cooper S trim, they are quite fast. There is plenty of room for the passengers in front, but the Clubman is the better choice if the rear seat will be used for people. Prices range from just over $20,000 for a basic hatchback up to $40,000 for a loaded Convertible. Any way you choose, the Mini provides as much style and sheer fun as any small car extant, and even more personalization options.
Kirk Bell reported from Chicago, with J.P Vettraino reporting from Detroit.


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NWSB Editor and Writer Chris Anderson talks about his love 'em and hate 'em from last night's Timbers 5-3 loss to the Los Angeles Galaxy. There was a goal in the third minute, four goals in nine minutes by one team, three players with two goals each, goals from penalty kicks, goals from set pieces, all bottled up in a stadium that provides for one of the best atmospheres. Landon Donovan, Robbie Keane, David Beckham, and Kris Boyd were on form.
LA Galaxy vs. Portland Timbers: love 'em & hate 'em
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