text:
by Mike Masnick
Mon, Jul 7th 2008 3:24pm
Filed Under:
hybrid cars, prius, solar power
Toyota, already considered a leader in producing hybrid gas-electric vehicles is apparently preparing to make that hybrid a bit more hybrid: it's going to add solar panels to some models, using the solar energy to power air conditioning. It's not much, but it's a start. I've actually been fascinated with solar vehicles since the fifth grade (yikes) when I convinced some engineers at GM to send me some cheap solar panels to build a tiny solar-powered car (Chrysler ignored my letter, Ford sent a form letter in response). While GM had invested in some prototypes and took part in various solar powered car contests, the technology has never been good enough to do very much at a practical level. Now, how long will it be until Toyota figures out a way to use wind power as well?
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asymptote, 7 Jul 2008 @ 4:27pm
PV on a hybridI've been wishing for exactly this for a long time. Imagine how cool it would be to get into the hybrid car at the end of the day, and instead of a solar oven, it's cooled down because it's had the A/C running, powered by the sun. Or, if you don't care about A/C, the PV will charge the traction battery, maybe providing a good percentage of the power for the drive home. The charging algorithm will change soon, either when PV is added, or when plug-in capability is added. My guess was that Toyota would add something like a PV "sunroof" in conjunction with the plug-in capability they said they would bring to market in 2010.
GeneralEmergency (profile), 7 Jul 2008 @ 4:54pm
PhotoVoltaic is not the solution.Clearly, the optimum power source for green vehicles of the future depends upon harnessing the virtually unlimited bloviating rhetoric on this subject being spewed by greenies everywhere. If we could just cork and divert 30% of this resource nationally, we could reduce oil imports a substantial amount.
I can see the little sticker on the rear of these cars now: "This car fueled by clean, but obnoxious environmentalist rhetoric."
Anonymous Coward, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:12pm
Re: PhotoVoltaic is not the solution.Wow
Time to up your meds ?
Anonymous Coward, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:27pm
Re: PhotoVoltaic is not the solution.Clearly they need to be hooked up to something like in the matrix.
al miller, 8 Jul 2008 @ 11:19am
Re: PhotoVoltaic is not the solution.You are the dream of the corporations. They love a gullible public who believes them. Myself, I see no disadvantage to clean air, land,and water. Maybe it takes emphysema or lung cancer for ones like you to see the light.
Rick, 7 Jul 2008 @ 4:56pm
Prius Silly Solar PanelThis panel is being marketed as aiding the airconditioning. However it will provide only about 10% of the power the AC uses in optimal sun.
In fact there have been longstanding issues with the Prius starter battery drain problem (incidently the Hybrid Camry, which I own - has it's own starter battery drain issues).
So this panel PROBABLY is intended to resolve a Toyota design problem by jacking the price further up (and adding yet another item with maintenance issues).
But hey in the religion of Man-Caused Global Warming (AGW) any bandaid can be sold. Just ask Al 'Offset' Gore!
Mark Murphy, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:30pm
Re: Prius Silly Solar PanelOne of these days, people will learn to include links when they make claims such as these.
A Google search on "Prius starter battery drain" turns up nothing -- with the quotes, there are literally 0 matches; without the quotes, I'm not seeing any entries describing the problem, other than a handful of complaints typical of any consumer product.
Similarly, I see a few complaints about the starter battery on the Camry Hybrid, but nothing out of the ordinary.
In fact, the only comments I've ever heard about Priuses and the starter battery come from people asking about leaving the car sit for an extended period, in which case they're recommended to turn off the keyless entry system, because that does put a drain on that specific battery.
If you have links to back up the claim of these "longstanding issues", post them. I own a Prius and therefore have a vested interest in finding out about these things. But you can't just hand-wave about issues, offer no links, and expect people to just take you at face value.
Bear Field, 7 Jul 2008 @ 6:39pm
Re: Re: Prius Silly Solar PanelI, for one, am on my second Prius. I gave the first one to my son after 5 years of driving it, which is the only reason I had to get a second one. In almost 6 years of Prius ownwership, I have never yet had a problem with either the "starter" battery or the traction battery. So much for the "Prius starter battery drain" problem!
Rick, 7 Jul 2008 @ 7:06pm
Re: Re: Prius Silly Solar PanelHumm I must have a better version of google, where 'prius starter battery problem' yields 18,000 hits and same thing with camry hybrid yields over 10,000.
Toyota Nation has multiple threads for each car which is what I tried to use to convince my service mgr that something was broken. No luck with him - he just recharges it and says 'hope you have better luck.'
BTW he tells me that the Prius has a switch to disable the keyless entry - the Camry hybrid does not. One of my dead battery problems happened overnight (it was 10 months old that first time) - the other 3 months later after 5 days of non-use. Neither very satisfactory to me.
I'm sorry - I don't have a url for either of my friends that have also had similar problems (one a Prius - the other a TCH).
Toyota tells me there's no field note calling for a fix (though on ToyotaNation one user says his TCH problem went away when the starter computer module was replaced with a newer version). This didn't impress my local service mgr.
I'm not trying to fix anyone's hybrid problems here - and fix your own google - but the suggestion that this is a Toyota marketing joke was not mine but the technical editor of the power design column at Electronics Design News today.
I'm fond of my TCH & very happy with the gas mileage - just wish I could trust it to leave it at the airport while I'm gone on a week's trip. 99%+ of the cars may be fine - doesn't help me if I have one of the 1%'ers. But I'd say don't worry about it if you don't have the problem.
When I can put a wind generator prop on the back to replace the gas engine - that will be quite a boon. I'll keep looking for that with Google too.
Ron, 8 Jul 2008 @ 3:15am
Re: Re: Re: Prius Silly Solar PanelWhen I Google "Prius starter battery problem" here in Southern California, I get exactly one hit, and believe it or not, it is a link to this page containing your post. No other hits, period.
Like Mark Murphy, I own a Prius (2006 model), and have a vested interest in finding out if there's really a problem. Personally, the only problem I've had is that my Prius seems to have a target painted on it, in some kind of color visible to everyone but me. It's been hit three times, each time causing substantial damage. It runs great, though, and sure does get great mileage.
Actually, now that I think of it, I have had another problem: my kids and friends borrow the Prius so much, I hardly ever get to drive it!
Stephan, 8 Jul 2008 @ 6:44am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Prius Silly Solar PanelWhen you google "Prius starter battery problem", remove the quotation and you will get more result.
Nazmul Ahsan, 8 Jul 2008 @ 10:41am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Prius Silly Solar Panel - 1 hit onlyIf you search: "Prius starter battery problem" - you get 1 hit
If you search: Prius starter battery problem - you get 18400
Freedom, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:08pm
Solar Paint = Real SolutionUntil they can make Solar Paint or embed solar into the fiberglass using nano techniques, we probably won't get much if any real benefit from Solar Energy integrated with vehicles or houses for that matter.
From the articles I've read in Technology Review and various sources online, the two major obstacles right now is the conversion percentage which currently is somewhere around 20 to 30 percent although there may be some specialized forms that top out at 40 percent, and the cost. While the increasing oil costs help to justify the solar panel costs more each day, it's still fairly steep on the energy cost versus return line.
Hopefully the "nano-geeks" will figure out a way to embed solar panels into roof tiles, fiberglass, paint, etc. Assuming the price was right, it could make a huge impact.
I live in Phoenix, Arizona area and the thought of having my home's roof covered in solar tile and providing enough AC to power the HVAC and house during the day would be more than cool - it be COOL!!!!!
Anonymous Coward, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:31pm
Re: Solar Paint = Real SolutionApparently you need to do some more research, there's several people who already have their entire homes powered by solar roofing, and sell their excess back to the power company.
Jonathan, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:15pm
Great Start, Great Possibilities!I am excited about the solar panels, despite the fact that they don't do much yet! You have to start some where! It will just get better! The article mentioned wind power! That is what really interests me! I don't know how feasible it is, but how awesome would it be if you had wind generators on your car? It wouldn't be attractive sure, but as long as your moving, your constantly generating the electricity to propel your vehicle! The only limit to how far you can drive now depends on the capacity of your bladder! =)
CJ, 8 Jul 2008 @ 12:41pm
Re: Great Start, Great Possibilities!I have thought about using wind power for cars myself and came to the conclustion that although the wind generators on your car would provide some power, they would reduce the overall milage of the vehicle. Great idea though. I hope that these sorts of ideas catch on.
KC, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:17pm
Help Charge BatteryThe PV does not have to run the car or A/C at full power. If it just trickle charges the battery for the 90% of the time that most cars are parked, it would give you some extra juice until plug-in hybrid electrical outlets become common. Mainly, though, Toyota just knows the image of a PV car will help them out fox Detroit again.
Chris, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:21pm
define practical"the technology has never been good enough to do very much at a practical level"
Says who?
The technology has been proven time and time again to be able to power several different kinds of vehicles, most notable perhaps, the HELIOS. As far as using it's application for replacing the combustion engine, industry hasn't had a demand for it. The combustion engine industry makes nearly just as much money as it does from selling new equipment, as they do in charging parts for maintenance. Once you go electric 60% of your profits go as well, so there's really no initative to persue its uses until there's no other option.
So I'm not sure really what point you're trying to make by adding all that extra information other than to make GM look better than Ford and Chrysler. GM as you may recall actualy had a fully functioning electric car ready for market, but once they saw they required virtually zero maintenance and would have lost billions in service fees for new parts, they decided to recall and scrap every car along with anyone involved in the project.
The technology for a fully electric car has been around since the 1880's, and shown to work countless times. The only reason we don't have them currently is because there's still trillions of revenue to be made from fossil fuels, and neitehr OPEC or the Automobile Industry are going to want to pass on every cent that can be squeezed out of the market.
The plain and simple truth is it's a lot more convenient to go and chop down a tree and burn it for energy, than it is to harness the power of the sun. Humans take the easiest path they can to achieve their goals as quickly as they can. Coupled with competition in the open market, you're not going to try and create the best product that can be made, you just do the bare minimum required to look better than the other guy, and try to do it first so you can get all the IP rights.
Because the American and European auto industries have shown they aren't going to jump at the chance to develop groundbreaking electric and hybrid cars, the Japanese will. Just like they did 20 years ago when everyone wanted cleaner engines with higher gas mileage. American and European manufactures knew they could ignore public outcry, because at the time no one had a choice for an alternative. The Japanese saw an opportunity to make the superior product and have continually done so over the past several years, and this case is no different. If GM were smart and continued to push their EV line, they could have established themselves as the pioneers, but it looks like they'll once again let the Japanese walk away with the title, and for our sakes I hope they do.
Domo Arigato, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:41pm
Re: define practicalThe Japanese saw an opportunity to make the superior product and have continually done so over the past several years, and this case is no different.
Agreed! A related industry has also seen a good deal of growth. This weekend, a friend of mine decided to go Japanese. Nonetheless, it's an interesting trend. At my recent year HS reunion, 25% of the people I knew in high school preferred the Japanese product to the comparable American product. One main selling point is that they spew 90% less obnoxious whiny words. I will possibly try Mail Order Japanese Bride myself.
Anything from Japan is good quality!
Anonymous Coward, 7 Jul 2008 @ 6:10pm
Re: define practicalHelios has almost no carry capacity...just like most of the entirely solar powered cars...that is the failing of those vehicles.
The US electrical grid is barely handling capacity as it is...how do you expect all electric plug cars to be powered by a grid that is taxed by the A/C in the average household?
I live in Columbus, OH, and there is a guy here who was murdered over a car that runs on tap water...The guy that has the prototype swears it. He lives right next to the guy with the authentic big foot print and a scale from the Loch Ness monster.
GE knew there was no future at the time for the electric car they had invented, it didn't provide the benefit of gas - Long ranges and easy to refuel. 12 hours to recharge or 12 minutes to fuel, grab a bite to eat, and go to bathroom.
Anonymous Coward, 7 Jul 2008 @ 6:47pm
Re: Re: define practicalGo watch "Who Killed The Electric Car"
Things have progressed greatly in the past 100 years since GE originally built an electric car. The Electric car built in the 1990s met the needs of 95% of drivers.
Nasch, 8 Jul 2008 @ 7:22am
Re: Re: Re: define practicalI would say it met the needs of 95% of drivers, but only 95% of the time. The last 5% is a deal breaker; I know it would be for me. I usually don't need to drive more than a few miles at a time, but now and then I go 300-500 miles. People don't want to have to rent a car for longer trips because their own car can't go far enough.
There is no conspiracy. I assure you, if electric cars could compete with gas cars and hybrids in the marketplace, they would. Tesla (the company, not the man) has shown that it's possible for a small startup to produce electric cars, so the argument that the big companies are keeping everyone out doesn't hold water either. There's way too much money to be made from an affordable electric with adequate range for someone not to start making them. Which means nobody knows how to make them yet.
Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2008 @ 8:29am
Re: Re: Re: Re: define practicalNobody knows how to make them yet?? What about http://www.zenncars.com/
Nasch, 11 Jul 2008 @ 10:45pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: define practicalLet's see....
Charge/refuel time: gas - minutes, Zenn - overnight
Top speed: gas - typically 100+ mph, Zenn - 25 mph
Range: gas - typically 300+ miles, Zenn - 50 miles with upgraded battery
Legality: gas - anywhere, Zenn - roads up to 35 mph speed limit
The Zenn competes successfully in the overall car market in America. And you're smoking what exactly? If this is the best option, then no, nobody has figured out how to make competitive electric cars. Tesla has come closest as far as I know, but they're not competitive on price or practicality with mainstream cars.
Anonymous Coward, 7 Jul 2008 @ 7:51pm
Re: Re: define practicalThe point with Helios is how efficient of a system can be designed using solar energy. With the major technological advancements currently being made, like building solar "antennas" specifically tuned to the spectrum of light much like a radio wave, coupled with super conducting metals with zero electrical resistance, the efficiency rate at which solar energy can be collected will skyrocket. Doing this with nano-technology creates an even higher efficiency potential. The current 20% rates compared to the theoretic 85% rates would be a major chance in the way we think about electric power. Batteries are taking major strides as well, although it's not reflected in the commercial products most are familiar with.
Drawing a direct current from solar cells isn't the only way to harness the power of solar energy. Using mirrors to create a highly focused beam of light to instantly convert water into steam is another practical application. Considering the vast majority of generators employ the use of a turbine to generate all of their power, and are powered by steam, creating a structure with an extremely large mirror that could convert hundreds of gallons of water into steam instantaneously would generate tremendous amounts of power. Combine those turbines with a wind farm, and build a platform and send it out to sea, and you can extract mass quantities of hydrogen as well. Point being, once technology catches up to the point where we can design systems such as these, the need for any combustible fuel becomes useless.
Of course, if humans could just all get along nuclear power would be the definitive way to go.
Gelbstoff, 8 Jul 2008 @ 12:33pm
Re: Re: define practical-Helios was a prof-of-concept. This is how technology gets tested. Besides, nobody is trying to sell a mas-produced solar car.
-Most plug-ins will be charging at night when the loads on the grid are lower (because of lower temp). Moreover, the grid has to be improved anyway, so I do not see your point.
-GM is now producing an all electric car with an on-board gasoline generator. This is really a good old idea. Most ships and locomotives use electric motors with generators providing the power. The concept looks very good on paper and they hope to have it out in a few years. Ford is also working on electric cars, similar concept.
-At a global average >200 W/m^2 of solar irradiance, solar panels can be practical, particularly if one considers that cars are parked outside most of the time. Just because a technology is not optimal now, does not mean that one has to abandon it. Solar panels are becoming more efficient, and are powering many buildings. Solar-thermal systems are powering desalination plants, and cities. Wind power is already powering Islands and cities.
-I suspect that all this blah blah comes from global warming deniers. They just need to consider that reducing our oil consumption is a good idea regardless of ones opinion about global warming. See the comments of someone like T. Boone Pickens - an oil billionaire who thinks that we should stop using oil because it is a finite resource.
-So, my ill-informed friend- please explain to me what is so bad about trying alternative sources of energy?
The Irate Citizen, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:23pm
Sun PowerHey everybody knows that oil is the only way to go. Get more of it. Burn more of it. Milk it out of the ground till the last drop is sold. Nothing like that nice choking feeling of hydrocarbon exhaust. Ahhhhh! Can't ya smell that smell? Everybody that has a pocket open for oil is always gonna poo poo any alternative fuel source, especially the hardest to regulate of all, , , the sun. Nope, solar can't work, can't even help, still to much oil to burn. Watch what happens when the wells run dry. I'm betting the oil companies will be all over solar power, like hair on a gorilla. Remember, if a lie is repeated enough, people soon start to believe it!
Brad E, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:23pm
Great Start, Great Possibilities! by Jonathanwow! I hope you are joking!
if not, just wow! ... dude! ugh, could you look up "perpetual motion machine"?
Jonathan, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:43pm
Re: Great Start, Great Possibilities! by JonathanRelax man! I'm just sayin that would help a hybrid use its gas engine alot less if it generates enough power. Check out this vidio. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkcn8ZkvKKc
Anonymous Coward, 7 Jul 2008 @ 6:18pm
Re: Re: Great Start, Great Possibilities! by JonathanIn Denmark, they are replacing all of the highways with conveyor belts that are directly connected to big windmills. The windmills are right next to the road every 2 kilometers.
The cars driving over it also make it move faster (like one of those unpowered treadmills.)
pawnblue, 8 Jul 2008 @ 4:41am
Re: Re: Great Start, Great Possibilities! by JonathanArrrrrggg, I need a company with a magical energy solution that has zero chance of success. I could retire off of investment money. That fan car in the video cannot work. Here is why:
The fans generate drag. That's right, to make them spin requires energy. You get that energy from the propulsion of the car.
So the car moves forward using X amount of energy. Add some fans. To move the car forward at the same speed, you now need X+Y amount of energy.
The fans cannot generate more energy than Y. That's the maximum amount of energy that goes into making them spin. That's all the energy you can possibly get out of the fans.
If the car were stationary and in neutral, would you expect wind to push the car up a hill? Of course not. Wind just doesn't produce that much energy. Imagine a sailboat. How fast does it go? And it's 90% sail and on a low friction surface. So why would capturing a small part of that energy in a battery power a car?
Anon, 8 Jul 2008 @ 11:51am
Re: Re: Great Start, Great Possibilities! by JonathanYou are laughably gullible. Really.
The Irate Citizen, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:38pm
Sun PowerHey everybody knows that oil is the only way to go. Get more of it. Burn more of it. Milk it out of the ground till the last drop is sold. Nothing like that nice choking feeling of hydrocarbon exhaust. Ahhhhh! Can't ya smell that smell? Everybody that has a pocket open for oil is always gonna poo poo any alternative fuel source, especially the hardest to regulate of all, , , the sun. Nope, solar can't work, can't even help, still to much oil to burn. Watch what happens when the wells run dry. I'm betting the oil companies will be all over solar power, like hair on a gorilla. Remember, if a lie is repeated enough, people soon start to believe it!
The Irate Citizen, 7 Jul 2008 @ 5:42pm
HmmmmI wonder if hitting the back button at the wrong time made that post repost? If so, sorry!!
John, 8 Jul 2008 @ 9:14am
Re: HmmmmHi, It doesn't matter - it was worth saying twice!
As well as repeated lies getting believed, have you ever noticed how corporations etc give things names in order to make them legitimate. Such as 'Stock Market Adjustment'.
The real meaning being 'perpetuation of the profits for investors by keeping the markets moving and allowing profit removal'.
Anyway, the Toyota idea seems better than the GM advertising where a redneck says that he wants to grow his fuel, not drill for it.
Now, if we can just starve a global load of non-consumer people to death, there might be room for people who will be consumers.
Mogilny, 7 Jul 2008 @ 6:46pm
A marketing move?Why can't they use the battery to power the ac on the hybrids? Is this just a superfluous add-on to differentiate from competitors? If i'm correct and this does not affect gas mileage, i don't see people buying.
Joe J., 7 Jul 2008 @ 7:38pm
Enery Calculation provide Reality CheckSolar panels cannot be the solution because the sun simply does not provide enough energy per sq meter to power the creature comforts we all love in modern cars.
Allow me to estimate:
1000W/sq meter * 10m^2 surface * 8 hours * 3600 sec/hour = 180MJoules.
These are all very very very favorable calculations estimating the energy POSSIBLE via solar panels on a Prius. Solar cells efficiency 100% efficient with the car parked for 8 hours... ...on a cloudless day... ...at the equator.... ...at noon (which lasts for 8 hours!)... ...with 10 square meters of solar panels.
And you get a whopping 180MJoules - possible.
For comparison purposes 1 gallon of gasoline has 130 MJoules.
Toyota is simply making a marketing statement. I am okay with that, but let's not wet our pants about the idea.
Joe J.
Mogilny, 7 Jul 2008 @ 8:04pm
Re: Enery Calculation provide Reality CheckDon't forget this assumes optimal panel angle, which is next to impossible to achieve on a moving car!
Gelbstoff, 8 Jul 2008 @ 1:30pm
Re: Enery Calculation provide Reality CheckDear Joe J.
Check your numbers. I think that irradiance at the top of the atmosphere is about 1,370 W/m^2. At the surface, the global average is about 340 W/m^2, but lets call it ~200 W/m^2 to be on the pessimistic side. So, based on your calculation we get about 5.7E7 Joules. Now, lets use a more realistic 30% solar panel efficiency and we are down to 1.7E7 Joules. This case is worst than the one you presented. However, you cannot do an apples to apples comparison. As you probably know, you do not get a 100% transfer of energy to motion when you burn the fuel. I think that the theoretical limit for internal combustion engines is about 20%, so you are left with 26MJoules. From this you have to subtract the loses due to friction in the drive train, and then there is the drag, and do not forget the energy needed to move the fuel in the fuel tank. I am too lazy to do the numbers, but I suspect we are down in the 10's of MJoules. On the other hand, the solar panel is not intended to run the car, it will just be happily charging the batteries of the Prius (with loses only due to transmission over very short distances) at no extra cost to the environment and the consumer. Nothing wrong with that, and my pant are definitely wet with anticipation.
OnanTheLibrarian, 28 Jul 2008 @ 9:11am
Re: Enery Calculation provide Reality Check"For comparison purposes 1 gallon of gasoline has 130 MJoules."
But don't internal combustion engines use only a fraction of that?
Alan Larson, 8 Jul 2008 @ 11:18am
amzaing press releases
Todd, 8 Jul 2008 @ 1:30pm
BMW is doing this tooBMW has been offering several Efficient Dynamics (ED)options on some later models, and have a test car X5 outfitted with all their prototype ED options, INCLUDING Solar (PV) on the roof. This keeps the engine & transmission oil warm to avoid high-emission cold starts, and also helps power the stereo and other interior accessories while the vehicle is idling or in traffic.
Combined with other ED options, they have reduced this vehicle's fuel consumption dramatically, and boosted mpg by a third or so (if I remember correctly).
Steven Easton, 8 Jul 2008 @ 5:27pm
Gasoline – Electric – Solar hybridThe car companies caused their own problems. They have been promoting power over economy in their advertisements. The American public bought into the concept and started driving SUV and Pickup trucks. These vehicles get 16 mph instead of 26 mph for economy cars. This caused a high demand for gasoline and low supplies and therefore higher prices for gasoline. The fuel shortage and the higher gasoline prices have woke up the public. Many car manufactures are 2 to 5 years behind on fuel economy cars. When the public goes to trade in their gas guzzler, they will buy a fuel efficient hybrid.
For hybrids, when you slow down or break, the energy is stored in a battery. And when you take off, the energy in the battery is used to get you back up to speed. It is like bouncing on a pogo stick (spring). Each time you bounce you loose a little of the energy but you get 90% of the height back. For cars, the stop and go traffic is where conventional cars use most of their fuel. Also up and down hills requires extra fuel. Regenerative breaking is not a new concept; elevators have been using it for 40+ years.
Adding solar to the gasoline – electric hybrid cars makes since. Hybrid cars already have the batteries, electric motors and computer controls. I calculate that the Honda Insight would get 17 more miles to the gallon by adding solar cells that could deliver 6 kilo watts per day assuming you drive 55 miles per day. That is what a hair drier would use in 6 hours. That's the same amount of energy in 1 half of a gallon of gasoline. It is also what the MIT solar race car captured a few years ago. Gasoline fuel is 5 times more expensive then grid electricity, making solar cells easier to justify on cars than houses.
Photovoltaic cells produce energy continuously as long as the sun is shining. Battery types matter. Some have to be fully drained before recharging, similar to a cell phone. For this type of battery, the computer must control which battery can be charged. Solar cell voltage varies too based on the amount of sun light received. Capacitors must be used to build up the voltage before delivering it to the battery. One day of chargeable battery capacity reserved for the solar cells.
Mazda is using solar cells to drive a fan which keeps the car cool when parked. The price of solar cells is dropping and the amount of power per square foot is going up. Solarpowercorp.com SPR-220 panel produces 29 watts per square foot per hour. A 6 foot by 5 foot panel mounted on and SUV's roof would provide 6000 watts of power on a peak day. That is 60 gallons per year if every day was peek. In Oklahoma there is a 75% annual solar rating. Photovoltaic cells are approaching 7 dollar per watt so 1000 watts would be $700. The payout at $3.00 per gallon of gasoline is 66 years. If the solar cell cost goes down to $1.00 per watt like computer prices have dropped, it will become a no brainer to make hybrid gas electric and solar energy cars. Solar panels can also be mounted on the roof, hood, sides and trunk and glued on like vinyl roofs. Transparent solar cells can be mounted on windows to tint the glass.
The Chevrolet Silverado has smaller batteries that are made of led acid. There are lots of solar battery chargers for 12 volt lead acid batteries. You could mount a 500w solar collector on a fiberglass bed cover for $4500 (plus the price of the bed cover). This could boost the fuel usage from 19 mpg to 19.5.
Cons: Hybrids that could plug into the electric grid would make it harder to justify.
7/6/2006 Steven Easton
Mark, 6 May 2009 @ 9:08pm
Solar chargingI currently own a 2008 Civic Hybrid, and I too have interest in Solar. I was happy to hear Toyota is planning on making use of the sun shining down on a car all day! I recall over 20 years ago of solar power window vent fans! Why not make more use of solar such as cabin venting as well as trickle charging Hybrid battery packs. Biggest problems for hypermilers is not generating enough charge back power to restore the battery packs. But a solar charger could restore that power at no cost to the plugin grid. And allow even higher battery useage which would deplete batteries on long trips but shorter trip to work would give 6 to 8 hours of battery recovery time. We could affectively see EPA city numbers of 60+ MPG. Key reason is even on the Honda IMA system the motor reverts to generator when releasing the gas petal which hurts the natural coasting but if you shift to coast you will deplete the battery and then drive 100% gas plus the drawn of the generator to recover the battery charge. This type of change would really benifit Toyota & Ford models due to the electric only ability. Since it would enable greater use of electric and solar recover later, and even while driving charging. So even while stuck in traffic it could be charging batteries. But even in Honda's IMA system it can reduce drag by generating and could be used to run AC like Toyota's new electric AC system. So even on hot days no engine idling. Also congrates to Toyota for using exhaust heat to quickly raise engine temp so emissions and fuel efficency can be reach even in cold weather in less time. I myself am working on a way to use standard cabin fan to move air through cabin using only solar power and therefore reducing the AC cool down needed and keeping battery packs at a safe temp in the hot summers. Solar is free so why not use it!
manishfusion (profile), 16 Jul 2009 @ 12:50pm
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manishfusion (profile), 16 Jul 2009 @ 12:52pm
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reHi, i have read many discussions and found mostly the economic issues, is it a economics blog?
Shamica, 14 Dec 2012 @ 1:00amThey are really amazing but I hope that they sell those types of cars with a cheaper price since it is using solar panels to power the AC of the units. I want to see solar panel installation Perth too because there are a lot of expensive cars here that I want to be converted.
Tina Smith, 15 Jan 2013 @ 9:11pmI hope that the Toyota branch here will use Solar power Perth too. A hybrid car plus solar power is an amazing idea. I hope that there are more cars like that in the future.


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Reina S. Weiner reading her recent book, "Strong From the Start - Raising Confident and Resilient Kids"
Views: 20
My friend's daughter - not three yet - isn't toilet trained. Fortunately, mom is not pulling her hair out because she remembered what we talked about years ago - DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF! She'll definitely be trained by the time she gets married! Seriously, she'll begin to show signs of physical and emotional readiness soon and she'll practically toilet train herself. Don't worry about what the "other" kids are doing. Your child will accomplish goals in her own time.

subset: commoncrawl


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Our daughter, Stephanie Crowe, died in Spokane, Washington on September 12, 2013.
On September 12 around 11 p.m., my wife and I received a telephone call that no parents ever want to receive.
The Spokane County Medical Examiner's office called to inform us that our youngest daughter, Stephanie (Taylor) Crowe, had been found dead in her bed. Kathie had answered the telephone call and soon awakened me, trembling and sobbing.
After a long and mostly sleepless night, we departed for Spokane, Washington mid-afternoon the next day to settle the affairs of our daughter's life. We left late due to waiting for Stephanie's sister, Ashley, to travel from Udall with her van, which had more room and carrying space then our small Hyundai.
All day long, Kathie had had a gut feeling that something was wrong. Stephanie had called her around 3 a.m. that morning, complaining of not having been able to sleep for the past day and a half and also of her wrist hurting. Stephanie had recently broken her wrist. She told Kathie that she had taken two sleeping pills, two Benadryl, and four ibuprofen, hoping to get some sleep. Kathie texted Stephanie later that afternoon and also, ironically, in the evening at approximately the same time that the coroner was at the home pronouncing our daughter deceased.
That late night conversation will be the last Kathie will ever have with Stephanie. She has said repeatedly since then how grateful she is that she talked to Stephanie for awhile that night, instead of telling her it was late and to just go to bed.
Since Stephanie's divorce in June, drinking had become an increasing issue for her. We believe that the combination of alcohol remaining in her system from drinking earlier combined with the various medications may have been the cause of her death. We won't really know, though, until we receive the toxicology report, following her autopsy, from the State of Washington.
Our long, arduous trek from Pratt to Spokane included two flat tires and a 60+ mile tow from west of Coeur D'Alene to our motel.
Having arrived, we sorted through Stephanie's possessions, donating most of them to a community donation center called Arc of Spokane. We took some of her belongings home with us, particularly those that had personal or sentimental significance. We had her body cremated and scattered the remains at Vedauwoo, a unique and beautiful rock formation area that she visited when she was a student at the University of Wyoming. Stephanie began her college career there and maintained a love for the state even after moving to Washington and attending Eastern Washington University. She was one semester away from graduating from EWU and had anticipated attending graduate school. Stephanie graduated from Pratt High School in 2005.
Fortunately, Kathie and I spent a day and a half with her just two and one half weeks prior to her death, when we looped up to Spokane on our northwest vacation.
Life brings all types of sadness and adversity. Thankfully, family and friends help you down the rough roads. We returned to Pratt to find several sympathy cards in our mailbox, as well as phone messages expressing sympathy, not to mention numerous Facebook and e-mail messages Also, several members of our church provided financial support (unasked for), along with one of Kathie's co-workers at Southwind Hospice and one of mine at Southwest Kansas Area Agency on Aging.
Everyone's support, love, and prayers have been much appreciated as we begin what will be a long journey of healing.
We miss you, Stephanie.


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The Quotable Thanissaro
A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
The Reductor and marc108,
Help me keep 'em comin'!
Kind wishes,
Help me keep 'em comin'!
Kind wishes,
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
"Progress along the path comes simply from staying right here and growing more and more aware of what's going on all around right here. You develop a more all-around awareness, not only all-around in the body, but also all-around in the mind. You see through the blind spots that allowed you to consume experiences obliviously, forgetting the fact that you had to produce them. It's like watching a movie — two hours of lights flashing up on a screen — and then later seeing a documentary about how they made the movie. "
This entire talk is worth quoting
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#steps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This entire talk is worth quoting
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#steps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Silence gives answers"
Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi
Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
Thanks Kamran.
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
You've probably heard the rumor that Buddhism is pessimistic, that "Life is suffering" is the Buddha's first noble truth. It's a rumor with good credentials, spread by well-respected academics and meditation teachers alike, but a rumor nonetheless. The real truth about the noble truths is far more interesting.... A fair number of writers have pointed out the basic confidence inherent in the four noble truths, and yet the rumor of Buddhism's pessimism persists.... It's hard to imagine what you could accomplish by saying that life is suffering. You'd have to spend your time arguing with people who see more than just suffering in life. The Buddha himself says as much in one of his discourses [MN 74 Dighanaka Sutta: To LongNails].
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... e.html#lif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
This discourse (Susima Sutta, SN 12.70) is sometimes cited as proof that a meditator can attain Awakening (final gnosis) without having practiced the jhanas, but a close reading shows that it does not support this assertion at all. The new arahants mentioned here do not deny that they have attained any of the four "form" jhanas that make up the definition of right concentration. Instead, they simply deny that they have acquired any psychic powers or that they remain in physical contact with the higher levels of concentration, "the formless states beyond forms." In this, their definition of "discernment-release" is no different from that given in AN 9.44 (compare this with the definitions for "bodily witness" and "released in both ways" given in AN 9.43 and AN 9.45). Taken in the context of the Buddha's many other teachings on right concentration, there's every reason to believe that the new arahants mentioned in this discourse had reached at least the first jhana before attaining Awakening.
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
Mindfulness Defined (or, What Sati Isn't)
The British scholar who coined the term "mindfulness" to translate the Pali word sati was probably influenced by the Anglican prayer to be ever mindful of the needs of others—in other words, to always keep their needs in mind. But even though the word "mindful" was probably drawn from a Christian context, the Buddha himself defined sati as the ability to remember, illustrating its function in meditation practice with the four satipatthanas, or establishings of mindfulness.... The full discussion of the satipatthanas (DN 22) starts with instructions to be ever mindful of the breath. Directions such as "bring bare attention to the breath," or "accept the breath," or whatever else modern teachers tell us that mindfulness is supposed to do, are actually functions for other qualities in the mind. They're not automatically a part ofsati, but you should bring them along wherever they're appropriate.
One quality that's always appropriate in establishing mindfulness is being watchful or alert. The Pali word for alertness, sampajañña, is another term that's often misunderstood. It doesn't mean being choicelessly aware of the present, or comprehending the present. Examples in the Canon shows that sampajañña means being aware of what you're doing in the movements of the body, the movements in the mind. After all, if you're going to gain insight into how you're causing suffering, your primary focus always has to be on what you're actually doing. This is why mindfulness and alertness should always be paired as you meditate.
In the Satipatthana Sutta, they're combined with a third quality, ardency. Ardency means being intent on what you're doing, trying your best to do it skillfully. This doesn't mean that you have to keep straining and sweating all the time, just that you're continuous in developing skillful habits and abandoning unskillful ones. Remember, in the eight factors of the path to freedom, right mindfulness grows out of right effort. Right effort is the effort to be skillful. Mindfulness helps that effort along by reminding you to stick with it, so that you don't let it drop.
All three of these qualities get their focus from what the Buddha called yoniso manasikara, appropriate attention. Notice: That's appropriate attention, not bare attention. The Buddha discovered that the way you attend to things is determined by what you see as important: the questions you bring to the practice, the problems you want the practice to solve. No act of attention is ever bare. If there were no problems in life you could open yourself up choicelessly to whatever came along. But the fact is there is a big problem smack dab in the middle of everything you do: the suffering that comes from acting in ignorance. This is why the Buddha doesn't tell you to view each moment with a beginner's eyes. You've got to keep the issue of suffering and its end always in mind.
Otherwise inappropriate attention will get in the way, focusing on questions like "Who am I?" "Do I have a self?"—questions that deal in terms of being and identity. Those questions, the Buddha said, lead you into a thicket of views and leave you stuck on the thorns. The questions that lead to freedom focus on comprehending suffering, letting go of the cause of suffering, and developing the path to the end of suffering. Your desire for answers to these questions is what makes you alert to your actions—your thoughts, words, and deeds—and ardent to perform them skillfully.
Mindfulness is what keeps the perspective of appropriate attention in mind. Modern psychological research has shown that attention comes in discrete moments. You can be attentive to something for only a very short period of time and then you have to remind yourself, moment after moment, to return to it if you want to keep on being attentive. In other words, continuous attention—the type that can observe things over time—has to be stitched together from short intervals. This is what mindfulness is for. It keeps the object of your attention and the purpose of your attention in mind.
Popular books on meditation, though, offer a lot of other definitions for mindfulness, a lot of other duties it's supposed to fulfill—so many that the poor word gets totally stretched out of shape. In some cases, it even gets defined as Awakening, as in the phrase, "A moment of mindfulness is a moment of Awakening"—something the Buddha would never say, because mindfulness is conditioned and nirvana is not.
These are not just minor matters for nitpicking scholars to argue over. If you don't see the differences among the qualities you're bringing to your meditation, they glom together, making it hard for real insight to arise. If you decide that one of the factors on the path to Awakening is Awakening itself, it's like reaching the middle of a road and then falling asleep right there. You never get to the end of the road, and in the meantime you're bound to get run over by aging, illness, and death. So you need to get your directions straight, and that requires, among other things, knowing precisely what mindfulness is and what it's not.
I've heard mindfulness defined as "affectionate attention" or "compassionate attention," but affection and compassion aren't the same as mindfulness. They're separate things. If you bring them to your meditation, be clear about the fact that they're acting in addition to mindfulness, because skill in meditation requires seeing when qualities like compassion are helpful and when they're not. As the Buddha says, there are times when affection is a cause for suffering, so you have to watch out.
Sometimes mindfulness is defined as appreciating the moment for all the little pleasures it can offer: the taste of a raisin, the feel of a cup of tea in your hands. In the Buddha's vocabulary, this appreciation is called contentment. Contentment is useful when you're experiencing physical hardship, but it's not always useful in the area of the mind. In fact the Buddha once said that the secret to his Awakening was that he didn't allow himself to rest content with whatever attainment he had reached. He kept reaching for something higher until there was nowhere higher to reach. So contentment has to know its time and place. Mindfulness, if it's not glommed together with contentment, can help keep that fact in mind.
Some teachers define mindfulness as "non-reactivity" or "radical acceptance." If you look for these words in the Buddha's vocabulary, the closest you'll find are equanimity and patience. Equanimity means learning to put aside your preferences so that you can watch what's actually there. Patience is the ability not to get worked up over the things you don't like, to stick with difficult situations even when they don't resolve as quickly as you want them to. But in establishing mindfulness you stay with unpleasant things not just to accept them but to watch and understand them. Once you've clearly seen that a particular quality like aversion or lust is harmful for the mind, you can't stay patient or equanimous about it. You have to make whatever effort is needed to get rid of it and to nourish skillful qualities in its place by bringing in other factors of the path: right resolve and right effort.
Mindfulness, after all, is part of a larger path mapped out by appropriate attention. You have to keep remembering to bring the larger map to bear on everything you do. For instance, right now you're trying to keep the breath in mind because you see that concentration, as a factor of the path, is something you need to develop, and mindfulness of the breath is a good way to do it. The breath is also a good standpoint from which you can directly observe what's happening in the mind, to see which qualities of mind are giving good results and which ones aren't....
We're often told that mindfulness and concentration are two separate forms of meditation, but the Buddha never made a clear division between the two. In his teachings, mindfulness shades into concentration; concentration forms the basis for even better mindfulness. The four establishings of mindfulness are also the themes of concentration. The highest level of concentration is where mindfulness becomes pure. As Ajaan Lee, a Thai Forest master, once noted, mindfulness combined with ardency turns into the concentration factor called vitakka or "directed thought," where you keep your thoughts consistently focused on one thing. Alertness combined with ardency turns into another concentration factor: vicara, or "evaluation." You evaluate what's going on with the breath. Is it comfortable? If it is, stick with it. If it's not, what can you do to make it more comfortable? Try making it a little bit longer, a little bit shorter, deeper, more shallow, faster, slower. See what happens. When you've found a way of breathing that nourishes a sense of fullness and refreshment, you can spread that fullness throughout the body. Learn how to relate to the breath in a way that nourishes a good energy flow throughout the body. When things feel refreshing like this, you can easily settle down.
You may have picked up the idea that you should never fiddle with the breath, that you should just take it as it comes. Yet meditation isn't just a passive process of being nonjudgmentally present with whatever's there and not changing it at all. Mindfulness keeps stitching things together over time, but it also keeps in mind the idea that there's a path to develop, and getting the mind to settle down is a skillful part of that path.
This is why evaluation—judging the best way to maximize the pleasure of the breath—is essential to the practice. In other words, you don't abandon your powers of judgment as you develop mindfulness. You simply train them to be less judgmental and more judicious, so that they yield tangible results....
Liberating insight comes from testing, experimenting. This is how we learn about the world to begin with. If we weren't active creatures, we'd have no understanding of the world at all. Things would pass by, pass by, and we wouldn't know how they were connected because we'd have no way of influencing them to see which effects came from changing which causes. It's because we act in the world that we understand the world....
t's best not to load the word mindfulness with too many meanings or to assign it too many functions. Otherwise, you can't clearly discern when a quality like contentment is useful and when it's not, when you need to bring things to oneness and when you need to take things apart.
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
Great advice. Thanks!
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
Venerable Thanissaro's writings helped me to learn how to ask the right kinds of questions, and the short essay from which an extract is quoted above (No-self or Not-self?), along with The Not-self Strategy and Questions of Skill - these three essays sparked a process of renewed inquiry into the Dhamma for me, and saved me from intractable doubts which I had never been able to assuage myself. With a renewed sense of faith, I was able to practice with more commitment again, and this led to improvements in virtue, study and meditation. And so although I have not met him personally, I feel much gratitude to Thanissaro Bhikkhu."If you develop the path of virtue, concentration, and discernment to a state of calm well-being and use that calm state to look at experience in terms of the Noble Truths, the questions that occur to the mind are not "Is there a self? What is my self?" but rather "Am I suffering stress because I'm holding onto this particular phenomenon? Is it really me, myself, or mine? If it's stressful but not really me or mine, why hold on?" http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... self2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
Thanks manas,manas wrote:Venerable Thanissaro's...(No-self or Not-self?), along with The Not-self Strategy and Questions of Skill - these three essays sparked a process of renewed inquiry into the Dhamma for me, and saved me from intractable doubts which I had never been able to assuage myself. With a renewed sense of faith, I was able to practice with more commitment again, and this led to improvements in virtue, study and meditation. And so although I have not met him personally, I feel much gratitude to Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
The good Reverend has helped me understand Buddhist faith also; and I too feel very grateful towards him.
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
Karma Culture Shock!
From KarmaWe read the early Buddhist attacks on the caste system, and aside from their anti-racist implications, they often strike us as quaint. What we fail to realize is that they strike right at the heart of our myths about our own past: our obsession with defining who we are in terms of where we come from — our race, ethnic heritage, gender, socio-economic background, sexual preference — our modern tribes. We put inordinate amounts of energy into creating and maintaining the mythology of our tribe so that we can take vicarious pride in our tribe's good name. Even when we become Buddhists, the tribe comes first. We demand a Buddhism that honors our myths.
From the standpoint of karma, though, where we come from is old karma, over which we have no control. What we "are" is a nebulous concept at best — and pernicious at worst, when we use it to find excuses for acting on unskillful motives. The worth of a tribe lies only in the skillful actions of its individual members. Even when those good people belong to our tribe, their good karma is theirs, not ours. And, of course, every tribe has its bad members, which means that the mythology of the tribe is a fragile thing. To hang onto anything fragile requires a large investment of passion, aversion, and delusion, leading inevitably to more unskillful actions on into the future.
So the Buddhist teachings on karma, far from being a quaint relic from the past, are a direct challenge to a basic thrust — and basic flaw — in our culture. Only when we abandon our obsession with finding vicarious pride in our tribal past, and can take actual pride in the motives that underlie our present actions, can we say that the word karma, in its Buddhist sense, has recovered its luggage. And when we open the luggage, we'll find that it's brought us a gift: the gift we give ourselves and one another when we drop our myths about who we are, and can instead be honest about what we're doing with each moment — at the same time making the effort to do it right.
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
FAITH and Refuge
FAITH and Karma
FAITH in Awakening
FAITH and Refuge
From Wings to Awakening, IntroductionThus, for every listener, faith in the Buddha's Awakening was a prerequisite for advanced growth in the teaching. Without faith in the fact of the Buddha's knowledge of Unbinding, one could not fully accept his prescription. Without faith in the regularity of the Dhamma — including conviction in the principle of kamma and the impersonality of the causal law, making the path open in principle to everyone — one could not fully have faith in one's own ability to follow the path. Of course, this faith would then be confirmed, step by step, as one followed the teaching and began gaining results, but full confirmation would come only with an experience of Awakening. Prior to that point, one's trust, bolstered only by partial results, would have to be a matter of faith [MN 27].
Acquiring this faith is called "going for refuge" in the Buddha. The "refuge" here derives from the fact that one has placed trust in the truth of the Buddha's Awakening and expects that by following his teachings — in particular, the principle of skillful kamma — one protects oneself from creating further suffering for oneself or others, eventually reaching true, unconditioned happiness. This act of going for refuge is what qualifies one as a Buddhist — as opposed to someone simply interested in the Buddha's teachings — and puts one in a position to benefit fully from what the Buddha taught.
The Buddha employed various means of instilling faith in his listeners, but the primary means fall into three classes: his character, his psychic powers, and his powers of reason. When he gave his first sermon — to the Five Brethren, his former compatriots — he had to preface his remarks by reminding them of his honest and responsible character before they would willingly listen to him. When he taught the Kassapa brothers, he first had to subdue their pride with a dazzling array of psychic feats. In most cases, however, he needed only to reason with his listeners and interlocutors, although here again he had to be sensitive to the level of their minds so that he could lead them step by step, taking them from what they saw as immediately apparent and directing them to ever higher and more subtle points. The typical pattern was for the Buddha to begin with the immediate joys of generosity and virtue, followed by the longer-term sensual rewards of these qualities, in line with the principle of kamma; then the ultimate drawbacks of those sensual rewards; and finally the benefits of renunciation. If his listeners could follow his reasoning this far, they would be ready for the more advanced teachings.
We often view reason as something distinct from faith, but for the Buddha it was simply one way of instilling faith or conviction in his listeners. At several points in the Pali Canon [e.g., DN 1; MN 95] he points out the fallacies that can result when one draws reasoned conclusions from a limited range of experience, from false analogies, or from inappropriate modes of analysis. Because his teachings could not be proven prior to an experience of Awakening, he recognized that the proper use of reason was not in trying to prove his teachings, but simply in showing that they made sense. People can make sense of things when they see them as similar to something they already know and understand.
Thus the main function of reason in presenting the teachings is in finding proper analogies for understanding them: hence the many metaphors and similes used throughout the texts. Faith based on reason and understanding, the Buddha taught, was more solid than unreasoned faith, but neither could substitute for the direct knowledge of the regularity of the Dhamma and of Unbinding, for only the experience of Unbinding was a guarantee of true knowledge. Nevertheless, faith was a prerequisite for attaining that direct knowledge. Only when the initial presentation of the teaching had aroused faith in the listener, would he/she be in a position to benefit from a less-adorned presentation of the content and put it into practice.
FAITH and Karma
From Wings to Awakening, Kamma & the Ending of KammaThus the experience of his Awakening gave a new purpose to narrative and cosmology in the Buddha's eyes: they became tools for persuading his listeners to adopt the training that would lead them to the phenomenological mode. This accounts for the ad hoc and fragmentary nature of the narratives and cosmological sketches in his teachings. They are not meant to be analyzed in a systematic way. It is a mistake to tease out their implications to see what they may say about such metaphysical questions as the existence or lack of existence of entities or identities underlying the process of kamma and rebirth, the relationship between the laws of kamma and the laws of the physical sciences, or the nature of the mechanism by which kamma makes its results felt over time [see the discussion of appropriate questions in II/G]. The search for systematic answers to such issues is not only invalid or irrelevant from the Buddhist point of view, it is actually counterproductive in that it blocks one from entering the path to release. And, we should note, none of the modes of discourse — narrative, cosmological, or phenomenological — is capable of describing or even framing proper questions about what happens after Awakening, for such issues, which lie beyond the conditions of time and the present, cannot be properly expressed by the conventions of language and analysis, which are bound by those conditions. Only a person who has mastered the skill of release has the mental skills needed to comprehend such matters [AN 4.174, MFU pp. 31-32]. The Buddha reserved his systematic explanations for the particular phenomenological mode to be used in viewing the process of kamma in its own terms, as it is being mastered, so that the actual problem of kamma and its retribution (as opposed to the theoretical questions about them) will be solved. The right way to listen to the narratives and cosmological sketches, then, is to see what they imply about one's own need to master the kammic process on the level of awareness in and of itself.
From these points it should become clear why kamma, as an article of faith, is a necessary factor in the path of Buddhist practice. The teaching on kamma, in its narrative and cosmological forms, provides the context for the practice, giving it direction and urgency. Because the cosmos is governed by the laws of kamma, those laws provide the only mechanism by which happiness can be found. But because good and bad kamma, consisting of good and bad intentions, simply perpetuate the ups and downs of experience in the cosmos, a way must be found out of the mechanism of kamma by mastering it in a way that allows it to disband in an attentive state of non-intention. And, because there is no telling what sudden surprises the results of one's past kamma may still hold in store, one should try to develop that mastery as quickly as possible.
In its phenomenological mode, the teaching on kamma accounts for the focus and the terms of analysis used in the practice. It also accounts for the mental qualities needed to attain and maintain that level of focus and analysis. In terms of focus, the principle of scale invariance at work in the complexities of kamma means that their essential processes can be mastered by focusing total attention on them right at the mind in the immediate present. This focus accounts for the practice of frames-of-reference meditation [II/B], in which attention is directed at present phenomena in and of themselves. These phenomena are then analyzed in terms of the four noble truths, the phenomenological terms in which appropriate attention and discernment direct and observe the experience of developing the qualities of skillful action.
The most immediate skillful kamma that can be observed on this level is the mastery of the very same mental qualities that are supporting this refined level of focus and analysis: mindfulness, concentration, and discernment, together with the more basic qualities on which they are based. Thus, these mental qualities act not only as supports to the focus and analysis, but also as their object. Ultimately, discernment becomes so refined that the focus and analysis take as their object the act of focusing and analyzing, in and of themselves. The cycle of action then short-circuits as it reaches culmination, and Unbinding occurs. These elements of focus, analysis, and mental qualities, together with the dynamic of their development to a point of culmination, are covered by the teachings on the Wings to Awakening discussed in detail in Parts II and III. Thus the Wings can be viewed as a direct expression of the role of skillful kamma in the path to release.
It is entirely possible that a person with no firm conviction in the principle of kamma can follow parts of the Buddhist path, including mindfulness and concentration practices, and gain positive results from them. For instance, one can pursue mindfulness practice for the sense of balance, equanimity, and peace it gives to one's daily life, or for the sake of bringing the mind to the present for the purpose of spontaneity and "going with the flow." The full practice of the path, however, is a skillful diverting of the flow of the mind from its habitual kammic streams to the stream of Unbinding. As the Buddha said, this practice requires a willingness to "develop and abandon" to an extreme degree [AN 4.28]. The developing requires a supreme effort aimed at full and conscious mastery of mindfulness, concentration, and discernment to the point of non-fashioning and on to release. A lack of conviction in the principle of kamma would undercut the patience and commitment, the desire, persistence, intent, and refined powers of discrimination [II/D] needed to pursue concentration and discernment to the most heightened levels, beyond what is needed for a general sense of peace or spontaneity. The abandoning involves uprooting the most deeply buried forms of clinging and attachment that keep one bound to the cycle of rebirth. Some of these forms of clinging — such as views and theories about self-identity — are so entrenched in the narrative and cosmological modes in which most people function that only firm conviction in the benefits to be had by abandoning them will be able to pry them loose. This is why the Buddha insisted repeatedly — and we will have occasion to return to this theme at several points in this book [II/E; III/A (CONVICTION)] — that conviction in the fact of his Awakening necessarily involves conviction in the principle of kamma, and that both forms of conviction are needed for the full mastery of the kamma of heightened skillfulness leading to release.
FAITH in Awakening
From Faith in AwakeningThe Buddha never placed unconditional demands on anyone's faith. And for anyone from a culture where the dominant religions do place such demands on one's faith, this is one of Buddhism's most attractive features. We read his famous instructions to the Kalamas, in which he advises testing things for oneself, and we see it as an invitation to believe, or not, whatever we like. Some people go so far as to say that faith has no place in the Buddhist tradition, that the proper Buddhist attitude is one of skepticism.
But even though the Buddha recommends tolerance and a healthy skepticism toward matters of faith, he also makes a conditional request about faith: If you sincerely want to put an end to suffering — that's the condition — you should take certain things on faith, as working hypotheses, and then test them through following his path of practice....
Repeatedly the Buddha stated that faith in a teacher is what leads you to learn from that teacher. Faith in the Buddha's own Awakening is a requisite strength for anyone else who wants to attain Awakening. As it fosters persistence, mindfulness, concentration, and discernment, this faith can take you all the way to the deathless.
So there's a tension in the Buddha's recommendations about faith and empiricism. I've discussed this point with many Asian Buddhists, and few of them find the tension uncomfortable. But Western Buddhists, raised in a culture where religion and faith have long been at war with science and empiricism, find the tension very disconcerting. In discussing the issue with them over the past several years, I've noticed that they often try to resolve it in the same ways that, historically, the tension between Christian faith and scientific empiricism has been resolved in our own culture. Three general positions stand out, not only because they are the most common but also because they are so clearly Western. Consciously or not, they attempt to understand the Buddha's position on faith and empiricism in a way that can be easily mapped onto the modern Western battle lines between religion and science.
The first interpretation has its roots in the side of Western culture that totally rejects the legitimacy of faith. In this view, the Buddha was an embodiment of the Victorian ideal of the heroic agnostic, one who eschewed the childish consolations of faith and instead advocated a purely scientific method for training and strengthening one's own mind. Because his method focused entirely on the present moment, questions of past and future were totally irrelevant to his message. Thus any references to faith in such issues as past karma, future rebirth, or an unconditioned happiness separate from the immediate input of the senses are later interpolations in the texts, which Buddhist agnostics, following the Buddha's example, should do their best to reject.
The second interpretation has roots in the side of Western culture that has rejected either the specifics of Christian faith or the authority of any organized religion,but has appreciated the emotion of faith as an essential requirement for mental health. This view presents the Buddha as a Romantic hero who appreciated the subjective value of faith in establishing a sense of wholeness within and interconnectedness without. Tolerant and opposed to dogmatism, he saw the psychological fact of a living faith as more important than its object. In other words, it doesn't matter where faith is directed, as long as it's deeply felt and personally nourishing. Faith in the Buddha's Awakening means simply believing that he found what worked for himself. This carries no implications for what will work for you. If you find the teaching on karma and rebirth comforting, fine: Believe it. If not, don't. If you want to include an all-powerful God or a Goddess in your worldview, the Buddha wouldn't object. What's important is that you relate to your faith in a way that's emotionally healing, nourishing, and empowering.
Because this second interpretation tends to be all-embracing, it sometimes leads to a third one that encompasses the first two. This [third] interpretation presents the Buddha as trapped in his historical situation. Much like us, he was faced with the issue of finding a meaningful life in light of the worldview of his day. His views on karma and rebirth were simply assumptions picked up from the crude science of ancient India, while his path of practice was an attempt to negotiate a satisfying life within those assumptions. If he were alive today, he would try to reconcile his values with the discoveries of modern science, in the same way that some Westerners have done with their faith in monotheism.
The underlying assumption of this position is that science is concerned with facts, religion with values. Science provides the hard data to which religion should provide meaning. Thus each Buddhist would be performing the work of a Buddha by accepting the hard facts that have been scientifically proven for our generation and then searching the Buddhist tradition — as well as other traditions, where appropriate — for myths and values to give meaning to those facts, and in the process forging a new Buddhism for our times.
Each of these three interpretations may make eminent sense from a Western point of view, but none of them do justice to what we know of the Buddha or of his teaching on the role of faith and empiricism on the path. All three are correct in emphasizing the Buddha's unwillingness to force his teachings on other people, but — by forcing our own assumptions onto his teachings and actions — they misread what that unwillingness means. He wasn't an agnostic; he had strong reasons for declaring some ideas as worthy of faith and others as not; and his teachings on karma, rebirth, and nirvana broke radically with the dominant worldview of his time. He was neither a Victorian nor a Romantic hero, nor was he a victim of his times. He was a hero who, among other things, mastered the issue of faith and empiricism in his own way. But to appreciate that way, we first have to step back from the Western cultural battlefield and look at faith and empiricism in a more basic context, simply as processes within the individual mind.
There, they play their major roles in the psychology of how we decide to act. Although we like to think that we base our decisions on hard facts, we actually use both faith and empiricism in every decision we make. Even in our most empirically based decisions, our vision is hampered by our position in time. As Kierkegaard noted, we live forwards but understand backwards. Any hard-headed business entrepreneur will tell you that the future has to be taken on faith, no matter how much we know of the past. What's more, we're often forced into decisions where there's no time or opportunity to gather enough past facts for an informed choice. At other times we have too many facts — as when a doctor is faced with many conflicting tests on a patient's condition — and we have to go on faith in deciding which facts to focus on and which ones to ignore.
However, faith also plays a deeper role in many of our decisions. As William James once observed, there are two kinds of truths in life: those whose validity has nothing to do with our actions, and those whose reality depends on what we do. Truths of the first sort — truths of the observer — include facts about the behavior of the physical world: how atoms form molecules, how stars explode. Truths of the second sort — truths of the will — include skills, relationships, business ventures, anything that requires your effort to make it real. With truths of the observer, it's best to stay skeptical until reasonable evidence is in. With truths of the will, though, the truth won't happen without your faith in it, often in the face of unpromising odds. If you don't believe that democracy will work in your nation, it won't. If you don't believe that becoming a pianist is worthwhile, or that you have the makings of a good pianist, it won't happen. Truths of the will are the ones most relevant to our pursuit of true happiness. Many of the most inspiring stories in life are of people who create truths of this sort when a mountain of empirical evidence is against them. In cases like this, the truth requires that faith actively discount the immediate facts.
If we dig even deeper into the psychology of decision-making, we run into an area for which no scientific evidence can offer any proof: Do we actually act, or are actions an illusion? Are our acts already predetermined by physical laws or an external intelligence, or do we have free will? Are the results of our acts illusory? Are causal relationships real, or only a fiction? Even the most carefully planned scientific experiment could never settle any of these issues, and yet once we become aware of them we have to take a stand on them if we want to continue putting any energy into our thoughts, words, and deeds.
These were the areas where the Buddha focused his teachings on empiricism and faith. Although his first noble truth requires that we observe suffering until we comprehend it, we have to take on faith his assertion that the facts we observe about suffering are the most important guide for making decisions, moment by moment, throughout life. Because his third noble truth, the cessation of suffering, is a truth of the will, we have to take it on faith that it's a possible goal, a worthwhile goal, and that we're capable of attaining it. And because the fourth noble truth — the path to the cessation of suffering — is a path of action and skill, we have to take it on faith that our actions are real, that we have free will, and yet that there's a causal pattern to the workings of the mind from which we can learn in mastering that skill. As the Buddha said, the path will lead to a direct experience of these truths, but only if you bring faith to the practice will you know this for yourself. In other words, "faith" in the Buddhist context means faith in the ability of your actions to lead to a direct experience of the end of suffering....
So instead of an empirical proof for his teaching on karma, the Buddha offered a pragmatic proof: If you believe in his teachings on causality, karma, rebirth, and the four noble truths, how will you act? What kind of life will you lead? Won't you tend to be more responsible and compassionate? If, on the other hand, you were to believe in any of the alternatives — such as a doctrine of an impersonal fate or a deity who determined the course of your pleasure and pain, or a doctrine that all things were coincidental and without cause — what would those beliefs lead you to do? Would they allow you to put an end to suffering through your own efforts? Would they allow any purpose for knowledge at all? If, on the other hand, you refused to commit to a coherent idea of what human action can do, would you be likely to see a demanding path of practice all the way through to the end?
This was the kind of reasoning that the Buddha used to inspire faith in his Awakening and in its relevance to our own search for true happiness....
Faith in the possibility of nirvana — the heartwood of the path — is what keeps you from getting waylaid by the pleasures of the sapwood and bark: the gratification that comes from being generous and virtuous, the sense of peace, interconnectedness, and oneness that comes with strong concentration. Yet, surprisingly, modern discussions of the role of faith in the Buddha's teachings rarely mention this point, and focus on faith in karma and rebirth instead. This is surprising because nirvana is much less related to our everyday experience than either karma or rebirth. We see the fruits of our actions all around us; we see people being born with distinct personalities and differing strengths, and it's only a short leap to the idea that there's some connection between these things. Nirvana, however, isn't connected to anything we've experienced at all. It's already there, but hidden by all our desires for physical and mental activity. To touch it, we have to abandon our habitual attachment to activity. To believe that such a thing is possible, and that it's the ultimate happiness, is to take a major leap.
Many in the Buddha's time were willing to take the leap, while many others were not, preferring to content themselves with the branches and sapwood, wanting simply to learn how to live happily with their families in this life and go to heaven in the next. Nirvana, they said, could wait. Faced with this honest and gentle resistance to his teaching on nirvana, the Buddha was happy to comply.
But he was less tolerant of the stronger resistance he received from brahmas, heavenly deities who complacently felt that their experience of limitless oneness and compassion in the midst of samsara — their sapwood — was superior to the heartwood of nirvana. In cases like this he used all the psychic and intellectual powers at his disposal to humble their pride, because he realized that their views totally closed the door to Awakening. If you think that your sapwood is actually heartwood, you won't look for anything better. When your sapwood breaks, you'll decide that heartwood is a lie. But if you realize that you're using bark and sapwood, you leave open the possibility that someday you'll go back and give the heartwood a try.
Of course, it's even better if you can take the Buddha's teachings on nirvana as a direct challenge in this lifetime — as if he were saying, "Here's your chance. Can you prove me wrong...?"
To act on...faith is to test it, the way you'd test a working hypothesis. You need faith to keep following..., but you also need the honesty to recognize where faith ends and knowledge begins. This is why, in the Buddhist context, faith and empiricism are inseparable. Unlike a monotheistic religion — where faith centers on the power of another — faith in the Buddha's Awakening keeps pointing back to the power of your own actions: Do you have enough power over your intentions to make them harmless? Do harmless intentions then give you the freedom to drop intention entirely? The only way you can answer these questions is by being scrupulously honest about your intentions, to detect even the slightest traces of harm, even the slightest movement of intention itself. Only then will you know the deathless, totally unconditioned by intention, for sure. But if you claim to know things that you don't, how can you trust yourself to detect any of these things? You need to make your honesty worthy of your faith, testing its assumptions until you find true knowledge in the test.
This is why science will never be able to pass valid judgment on the truths of Awakening, for the path deals in matters that outside experimenters can't reach. Although others may sympathize with your suffering, the suffering itself is an experience you can share with no one else. The honesty and skillfulness of your intentions is an affair of your internal dialogue, something that is also purely your own. Scientists can measure the neurological data indicating pain or intentional activity, but there's no external measurement for how the pain feels, or how honest your intentional dialogue may be. And as for the deathless, it has no physical correlates at all....
As in science, faith in the Buddha's Awakening acts like a working hypothesis, but the test of that hypothesis requires an honesty deeper and more radical than anything science requires. You have to commit yourself — every variation on who you feel you are — totally to the test. Only when you take apart all clinging to your inner and outer senses can you prove whether the activity of clinging is what hides the deathless. The Buddha never forced anyone to commit to this test....
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Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
Greetings Daniel,
Thanks for sharing this...
Thanks for sharing this...
This is by and large why I steer clear of Dhamma/Science crossover topics. I understand there may be some compulsion or excitement to say, "See, science agrees with the Dhamma in relation to x!" but as Thanissaro Bhikkhu rightly says, "the path deals in matters that outside experimenters can't reach". Focusing on science is to look outside, when the answers are really within.This is why science will never be able to pass valid judgment on the truths of Awakening, for the path deals in matters that outside experimenters can't reach. Although others may sympathize with your suffering, the suffering itself is an experience you can share with no one else. The honesty and skillfulness of your intentions is an affair of your internal dialogue, something that is also purely your own. Scientists can measure the neurological data indicating pain or intentional activity, but there's no external measurement for how the pain feels, or how honest your intentional dialogue may be. And as for the deathless, it has no physical correlates at all....
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)
"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)
"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
From the Buddha to Feyerabend; and to when my doctors ask me about my pain "levels." Medical professionals have so much FAITH in their training (and usually their humungoid egos!).retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Daniel,
Thanks for sharing this...
This is by and large why I steer clear of Dhamma/Science crossover topics. I understand there may be some compulsion or excitement to say, "See, science agrees with the Dhamma in relation to x!" but as Thanissaro Bhikkhu rightly says, "the path deals in matters that outside experimenters can't reach". Focusing on science is to look outside, when the answers are really within.This is why science will never be able to pass valid judgment on the truths of Awakening, for the path deals in matters that outside experimenters can't reach. Although others may sympathize with your suffering, the suffering itself is an experience you can share with no one else. The honesty and skillfulness of your intentions is an affair of your internal dialogue, something that is also purely your own. Scientists can measure the neurological data indicating pain or intentional activity, but there's no external measurement for how the pain feels, or how honest your intentional dialogue may be. And as for the deathless, it has no physical correlates at all....
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
From Purity of HeartThe primary causal relationship isn't something gentle like light reflecting off mirrors, or jewels illuminating jewels. It's feeding. Our bodies need physical food for their well-being. Our minds need the food of pleasant sensory contacts, intentions, and consciousness itself in order to function. If you ever want proof that interconnectedness isn't always something to celebrate, just contemplate how the beings of the world feed on one another, physically and emotionally. Interbeing is inter-eating....
Re: The Quotable Thanissaro
The Path of Concentration & MinfulnessTo be in jhana is to be absorbed, very pleasurably, in the sense of the whole body altogether. A very broad sense of awareness fills the entire body. One of the images the Buddha used to describe this state is that of a person kneading water into dough so that the water permeates throughout the flour. Another is a lake in which a cool spring comes welling up and suffuses the entire lake.
Now, when you're with the body as a whole, you're very much in the present moment. You're right there all the time. As the Buddha says, the fourth jhana — in which the body is filled with bright awareness — is the point where mindfulness and equanimity become pure. So there should be no problem in combining mindfulness practice with the whole-body awareness that gets very settled and still. In fact, the Buddha himself combines them in his description of the first four steps of breath meditation: (1) being aware of long breathing, (2) being aware of short breathing, (3) being aware of the whole body as you breathe in and breathe out, and then (4) calming the sensation of the breath within the body. This, as the texts tell us, is basic mindfulness practice. It's also a basic concentration practice. You're getting into the first jhana — Right Concentration — right there, at the same time that you're practicing Right Mindfulness.
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No added prison time in police chase
Staff Report
STAMFORD -- After nine months in jail, the man who in May 2012 led a Stamford police officer on a chase into Norwalk -- during which the officer fell 20 feet onto Interstate 95 and was seriously injured, was released Wednesday.
At a hearing at State Superior Court in Stamford on Wednesday, Frank Douglas, 30, of Norwalk, pleaded guilty to misdemeanor counts of interfering with an officer, engaging police in pursuit and cruelty to animals and was sentenced to time already served.
Douglas, who was being chased by police because his car looked like one involved in an early-morning robbery on May 17, 2012, had his original charges, including assault on a police officer and reckless endangerment, dropped because some elements of the offenses did not fit facts of the case, Assistant State's Attorney David Applegate said.
Douglas was given a suspended 27-month prison sentence, three years of probation and 300 hours of community service.
On May 17, Officer Troy Strauser was on patrol when he heard an alert for a white BMW sought in a robbery, Applegate said.
Strauser saw Douglas' car near West Avenue and tried to stop it, but it fled onto the highway, headed for Norwalk. After spike strips flattened some of the car's tires, Douglas crashed at Exit 14, got out of his car and fled with Strauser close behind, Applegate said.
While trying to run Douglas down, Strauser fell off a 20-foot-tall bridge embankment onto the highway.
Douglas then doubled back, running over six highway lanes and hid in a wooded area on the south side of I-95 before being apprehended.
Strauser was critically wounded, suffering from severe head and internal injuries. He spent the next week in surgery. Titanium was used to put his arm together, his nose had to be rebuilt and it took months for him to eat normally again.
Applegate said the plea agreement with Douglas was a fair disposition.
"I don't think this was a slap on the wrist at all. It was a real sentence here," he said of the nine months Douglas spent in jail.
Applegate said while Strauser was satisfied with the agreement, he was also troubled that no laws applied to his situation. Applegate said assault on a police officer and reckless endangerment laws don't cover officers who are injured while chasing someone.
"What really shocked officer Strauser was that if he had died that night chasing the defendant into the woods, the only charge that he would face was interfering," he said.
At the end of Wednesday's hearing, Judge Richard Comerford, whose son is in the Stamford Police Department, called for changes in state law that would hold a person being chased by police responsible for any injuries to officers.
"These people do our bidding every day. Fine young men and women out there on the streets and we take them for granted, all of us take them for granted," Comerford said. "... absolutely outrageous, the law should be changed."
Douglas' attorney, Darnell Crosland, said his client, who was on parole at the time and driving with a suspended license, ran because he was worried he may be arrested.


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The Cleveland Indians today announced the following roster moves relative to the Major League roster:
Placed OF RYAN RABURN on the 15-day Disabled List with right wrist soreness, retroactive to August 18.
Recalled OF TYLER HOLT from AAA Columbus.
Raburn has been battling soreness in the area most of the season and aggravated it on Wednesday, August 13th after his diving catch vs. Arizona (game 2). For the year he is hitting .191 (36-188) with 3 HR and 21 RBI in 70 games for the year. Today marks his fourth career stint on the Major League DL.
Holt begins his fourth stint with Cleveland in 2014, the last of which came from August 10-16. He is 5-for-13 (.385) with Cleveland in 6 games/3 starts. Combined on the season between AA Akron and AAA Columbus he is hitting .305 (107-351) with 74 runs scored, 19 doubles, 2 home runs, 30 RBI and 31 steals in 37 attempts. Among Tribe Minor League players he is leading the system in steals, is 2nd in runs scored and 4th in batting average.


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Congress Tries, Yet Again, To Fix Outdated Electronic Privacy Laws
from the that-4th-amendment-thing dept
Law enforcement, as always, flipped out about the ECPA reform bit, and at the very, very end of Congress, the video rental reform stuff passed while ECPA reform was left on the cutting room floor.
This week, however, ECPA reform has been brought back once again, this time in the House, by Rep. Zoe Lofgren, along with Reps. Ted Poe and Suzan DelBene. The proposed bill, called The Online Communications and Geolocation Protection Act, is embedded below. It's a strong bill, meaning law enforcement folks are likely to flip out again. Among the reforms, it would set up a clear and consistent standard for requiring a warrant for government access to electronics communication. That is, it will get rid of the hodge podge of ECPA rules that change based on how old the communications are, if it's been opened, if it's a draft, etc. Now, we just get one rule, across the board, and that rule is get a warrant. It also requires (with a few exceptions) that notice be given to the user/account holder, so that people actually know when the government goes looking through their data.
In an attempt to appease law enforcement, the bill leaves in many "exceptions," that will allow law enforcement to bypass these rules in certain cases. The bill would be stronger without these exceptions, but there's no way the bill passes without something like that in there.
As you may have realized from the name, the bill also has a section dealing with "geolocation" information. This is important because there are a bunch of ongoing fights concerning the privacy of your location data (obtained via mobile phones, GPS devices and such). As we've covered here repeatedly, the courts have been ruling every which way on the legality of law enforcement accessing this kind of data, and so the bill tries to clarify that, and puts in place prohibitions on the government intercepting location info without a warrant (with, of course, a few key exceptions -- including in an emergency, if the person gives consent or if the data is already public).
It's a good bill that deserves support. While it may not be perfect, it's a hell of a lot better than what we have now. This would be a huge step up in protecting our privacy from government intrusion, which means it's going to be an uphill battle against law enforcement interests to get it passed. That said, maybe this is finally the year when all those elected officials who claim ECPA reform is important get their act together and vote to approve real reform.


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