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Wednesday, February 5, 2014
What the *@#% was he thinking?
"I wasn't," my husband finally said. "I wasn't thinking about you at all!"
Bam. There it was.
Though he'd said variations on that same sentiment – that his cheating had nothing to do with me – plenty of times, there was something about his candid admission that, as he left our house in the morning to drive to her house for a pre-work quickie, he simply wasn't thinking of me that hit me like a lightning bolt.
He wasn't thinking about me. This wasn't about him battling his conscience, torn between the pajama-clad wife at home wiping her toddlers' faces or the showered, perfumed Other Woman.
He wasn't thinking about me. At all.
It's crazy right? And crazier still that this made me feel good. In that moment, I got it. I finally understood that his cheating really had nothing to do with me. This was about a parallel world he believed in where he was free to do what he wanted. Where he didn't have obligations or responsibilities. Where it was all about him. He didn't care about her. Didn't even like her. She was escape. And escape was what he craved.
So often when women write to me within their letters is the question "why?" over and over and over. Why would he do this? What was he thinking? How could he ruin our relationship? What about our children? Didn't he think about them?
Aren't I enough? they ask. How could he throw away five/ten/twenty years? Didn't he think about what he was doing?
I doubt it.
Cheaters become masters at compartmentalization. Some are so good at it because they're truly narcissists who simply don't care about anyone else. They aren't thinking about you because they never think about you except in how you can be of use to them.
But the others, like my husband, are garden-variety fuck-ups. They've got issues, often deep issues, that haven't been addressed. Childhood abuse or neglect. Emotional detachment. Mother issues. Unprocessed grief. An inability to recognize or manage their own fear – of growing old, missing out, failing.
And then someone comes along who offers escape. Someone in whose eyes they loom large and exciting and interesting. The someone is less important than what that someone offers. A parallel universe. Escape.
It's the reason so many of these guys are stunned when the affair is dragged into the real world and suddenly it seems so ridiculous and cliché and embarrassing. They can't believe what they've done. They're acutely aware of just what they have to lose.
It's not always immediate. Sometimes this parallel universe has such a hold on them that it takes them a while to shake it from their psyche. Like someone in the dark arriving, blinking, into the bright sunlight. They're not sure which one is reality, the light or the dark.
But a lot of guys know immediately that they've really messed up. That this escape has been a total illusion. That the price of this fantasy is going to be high.
They're the ones who insist that they're not that guy. That they didn't know what they were thinking. They don't want to talk about it. It's humiliating. It's confusing. They can't really explain what they were thinking because they weren't.
If they really think hard about it they might acknowledge that they were thinking variations on such things as nobody will get hurt. Or I feel young again. But mostly they just weren't thinking at all.
76 comments:
- AnonymousFebruary 5, 2014 at 11:08 AM
Another great topic and message from you Elle~ this is exactly where I am right now and what I keep asking him over and over..WHY? It's all I think about day and thru long, sleepless nights. If only he could give me a pat answer to the question then I could maybe understand and get somewhere. I now know the who, what, where, when...but the why is the missing link. Thank you for shedding some light into the dark world I am in right now.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousFebruary 5, 2014 at 2:08 PM
Hi. I know we are all different and no one can read minds - I get that, so no need to answer with that. My question to you, Elle, if you don't mind and I hope you will answer after thinking a long time, even if you are super duper busy with family stuff, but because I read your blog and obviously value your thoughts:ReplyDelete
Why do you think there are women like YOU and uggh, me, who have stayed - we have very different but similar stories....
Yet - I go to Surviving Infidelity - and read so many things so opposite...like today, a woman divorced her husband over an internet affair.
What is your take on such EXTREME decisions/outcomes. And yes - I know, we are all different...what else do you think? I'm sure you've struggled long about this also. Or maybe you don't read infidelity forums anymore. I know I only feel worse when I read them......Replies
I don't think it's unlike people who believe they're "right" about anything -- homosexuality, social assistance, evolution. There are people who simply see the world in black and white, wrong and right, bad and good.
Those are the people who speak in absolutes and feel comfortable generalizing. "Once a cheater, always a cheater."
But, in my experience, they're also the people who are so terrified that their world view might not be absolutely correct that they can't even entertain the possibility that there might be another point of view.
That shift is one of the gifts of this experience for me. It forced me to give up my insistence that I was the "good guy" and my husband was the "bad guy" and recognize that we all make choices that don't always jibe with who we want to be. It forced me to decide whether or not I was willing to acknowledge that he could do this horrible thing...but not be a horrible person. And to give him the opportunity to be better. To know that forgiveness of him was also forgiving myself for all the mistakes I've made in my life, big and small. In other words, to allow each of to be human.
It all sounds very Zen and, trust me, there was plenty of fury and hate involved. But ultimately I don't want to be someone who refuses to even allow for the possibility that there are other points of view. Those who want to divorce? Absolutely your choice. Not my business. But that wasn't what I chose to do. I chose to rebuild my marriage with a man who is heartbroken at his own broken-ness and has worked incredibly hard to be a better man. That doesn't make him "worse" than someone who never cheated. Nor, in my opinion, does it make him a greater cheat risk than someone who never cheated. In fact, I would argue it makes him less likely to cheat again because he was so disgusted with himself.
In the end, however, we are left with our own choices. So we'd better be damn sure we made the one that was right for us...not the one we thought we should make to fit some prescribed cultural model of how to respond to cheating.
Like you, I tend to feel worse when I read those other sites. The anger, the vitriol, the lack of compassion... However, I'm aware that my discomfort also says something about me. Perhaps a touch of ambivalence about my decision? A residual fear that I've made a mistake? It's worth noting and, when time allows (darn kids! darn pets! darn everything!) explore further.
- AnonymousFebruary 7, 2014 at 11:07 AM
This is in response to anonymous who wrote in on 2/5.Delete
My d-day was in August & I found surviving infidelity to be too triggering for me; the emotions were so raw that it depressed me even further. Elle's blog is amazing in that her entries recount the his single emotions we are feeling and yet they always seem to end on a positive note.
I knew immediately I wouldn't divorce my husband, though I wasn't sure how our marriage would continue. When I searched the internet I found most sites to be pro divorce.
Several books that really worked for me, making me feel that I was not alone with all my crazy emotions & actually walking you thru several affairs as well as understanding differences between the male & female perspective as well as societal factors were:
After the affair by Lois kirschbaum,
Not just friends by Shirley glass
And every book by Peggy Vaughn.
All these can be ordered on amazon & are geared to helping the betrayed spouse understand what happened and come to terms (although not forgive & forget).
I found beyond affairs network too sickening when I read entries by Anne, she was way too happy for what I was going through.
Btw, to reiterate what so many other women have said before,
God bless you Elle. I have read & reread every one of your articles. You have helped me personally so much.
- AnonymousFebruary 7, 2014 at 11:36 AM
Hi, Sam again. Forgot to mention in above entry I just found betrayed spouses 101 on line which I also found helpful as to why (nothing to do with us), obsessing, & reconciling.Delete
Something the author wrote which really resonated with me was although we don't have to forgive our cheating husbands, we have to learn to forgive ourselves for wanting to reconcile & work things out. This was a real tough one for me, when almost every song & every article, advice column, & radio station sends the message once a cheater always a cheater.
I myself choose to give my husband the benefit doubt. I choose to believe him when he says he made a mistake. (Or technically speaking over 6 months of mistakes). The books I read have shown me how so many good people make this same mistake & although I'm pretty sure I would not have, I can see how my otherwise ethical good natured loving husband who would have scoffed at other men cheating did.
I think so many woman would benefit from reading these books as they were written by women but help us get inside the head of the cheater, esp the husband, who sometimes seems like an alien to me now.
- AnonymousFebruary 5, 2014 at 2:28 PM
This sums up my husband I think, though I still, after two years, keep wanting him to reflect on if there was anymore to learn from the experience or the BS he spouted to me, her, himself for four months after my discovery.Those four months of guilt-ridden confusion were almost worse than the nearly 2 years of intermittent hookups and constant EA of calls/texts to a rat-faced girl from California. Ughhh....sometimes it just feels so pathetic and embarrassing (for them). The word "douche baggy" comes to my mind even if nothing was on theirs but some highschoolish hyperbole.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousFebruary 5, 2014 at 4:03 PM
The irony is that he (with the assistance of the OW, in many cases) certainly DOES think about you when he's (they're) demonizing you to justify what they did...Sad. Double-whammy.ReplyDeleteReplies
I'm aware that my "he wasn't thinking about you" post has struck some of you as just plain wrong. So let me explain: of course he has to think about you within the context of 'how can I sneak away' and so on. What I mean is that he's not thinking about you as fully human. We become props to some degree. Collateral damage. They turn us into caricatures (if they think of us at all) -- either the long-suffering wife, or the shrew, or the sex-withholding manipulator. There are exceptions, of course. But mostly we just don't register to them during the time they're living in this parallel world.Delete
- AnonymousFebruary 9, 2014 at 4:26 PM
Elle, I very much agree with this. But I think we become not so much "props" as co-actors on the same stage. So when "life" happens, things they need to escape from (job stress, financial pressures, inlaw issues, etc) we are right there next to them. And it oppresses them. And stronger people would "deal". Seek counseling from a therapist or priest. Verbalize the internal struggle and depression that is weighing them down. Weaker men (and women) seek the bright shiny object being dangled in the form of an affair. Someone is essentially saying "Look at me! I will make you feel like you are king of the world! Stress does not exist with me! Money worries disappear when we are together! I will make no real demands! You don't have to do anything but complain about life and have sex with me! And I will tell you it's everyone's fault but yours! I will find people to blame, because we know it's probably your wife's fault anyway!"Delete
Feel free to add to the list above! Because that is essentially what happens. I told my husband with all the stress in our lives, it was like we were struggling to keep a leaky dinghy afloat. He jumped ship to a cruise ship, except once on board he found out that nothing was as advertised and he got sick because disease was rampant on that ship!
- AnonymousFebruary 5, 2014 at 4:34 PM
I hope thats true is my case.ReplyDelete
I want that to be true. I want to share this with my husband and have him say you are 100% right.
He hasn't really said much about what he was thinking or what he has thought about since. We are just opening that conversations so I don't want to lead him by giving him this. But ohh, I want to hear something like this come from him in an authentic way. But truthfully, right now, I just feel like he saw this woman as a viable option for "real" love and a fullfilling relationship. I feel like he still thinks this. He might. He is very dense and veeery slow moving in his insight (thought when he get there, it is from the heart).
- AnonymousFebruary 5, 2014 at 6:19 PM
I am so glad to read that I am not alone. My H has told me over and over that he never thought about "us" when he was headed to meet his whore. I have had a very hard time believing that it was true, it makes be feel better that in fact may be the case.ReplyDelete
Our MC counselor even said that my H was the master compartmentalized, what happened at work (which is where the A happened) stayed at work. He has sworn that he never thought about her when he was at home, also. It is all so foreign to me, because I always have my family on my mind. Our MC says that we are just wired differently. Men are waffles (with all the little boxes for each thing) and women are spaghetti (where everything intertwines). I keep trying to focus on the face that he never wanted to end our marriage or be with her outside of their weekly/monthly meetings at the hotel, but it is so hard.
Reading blogs like yours, at least gives me some sanity. Thank you for sharing your experiences with all of us!
So true!ReplyDelete
Luckily, he's thinking now! ;-) And he knows he was so so so wrong!
Why we stay? Because we love them? Because I've made lots of mistakes too and he's always forgiven me. Because we can have a better marriage if/when we come out on the other end?
It took my husband several months to get out of the affair fog, after I discovered what was going on. He was sorry for hurting me (in the beginning), not for the affair. It was beyond devastating, living with a man who was still in love with someone else. But we made it.
I don't read anti-marriage blogs/forums. I get why some people get divorced, but because I want my marriage to work, I don't go to these places. Because I know there are many who have survived and are writing about it. Reading stuff about *once a cheater always a cheater* confused me! Because you don't know if you can ever trust your husband again (and that will take time!!), these websites will make it even worse. Just don't go there if you want your marriage to work. You've got enough doubts in your mind already.
I'm even reading a guy's website (he was the WS) who is (now) very much anti affairs and gives advice http://affairadvice.wordpress.com/
Mara x
I agree the affair was all about them, but to say that the CS does not think of us is not true. In fact they did think of us, they just didn't care. The ends justified the means in their minds. In other words whatever repercussions, that they knew would have ensued had or when we found out, was worth the risk. In my H's case, when I looked at the phone records, he would call me on his way to her house and always call me on his way home. This does not say he wasn't thinking of me. He was covering his tracks and I think totally feeling guilty for what he was doing. I'm sure the calls to me on his way to see her was to make sure he knew where I was and what I was doing and actually by talking to me on the way to her house made the act even more titillating for him. Every morning during his affair he would ask me what I was going to do that day. Now some of that may have been feigned interest in my day, but I now see he was planning his day and he needed to know where I was so I wouldn't be checking up on him. Funny how after the affair ended he never asked me what I was going to do that day. It all just adds up.
I'm glad this notion helped you, but I do not believe he wasn't thinking of you or his commitment to you. He really believed he was so smart he would NEVER be caught. I'm sure he felt tremendous guilt, but the fantasy was worth it. The guilt was punishment enough for him. The guilt was his "hair shirt". Sorry but I call BS that he didn't think of you. How could he NOT think of you.
I may be all wrong and this is just my experience. I think these poor slobs just don't know what to say :(Replies
I know my experience is different than many in that my husband was acting out his sex addiction. Like an alcoholic who doesn't think about his spouse as he pours himself another drink, my husband simply didn't consider me at all. And the more I heard from other spouses, the more I read, the more it struck me that men who cheat (most, not all) simply aren't thinking about their spouse. See my comment above to Anonymous for more of what I mean.
Of course, if that wasn't your experience, that's completely valid. There's never a one-size-fits-all understanding of this. Though I'm always amazed at just how similar our experiences are. In the end, our differences all come down to fingerprints... :)
Ya know, I kind of agree with tryinghard. The night I actually caught my husband in the back of whore's van my son actually talked to him on the phone so we could gauge where he was and how soon he would be at the rendezvous spot. And I texted with him about what he wanted to do for dinner about 5 minutes before he pulled into the parking lot to meet OW. But when he was out of town with his business and traveling all the time - he was compartmentalizing to the max and he was living a total other life and he didn't 'think' of me at all....Delete
Exactly Elle,Delete
They think of us in demonized terms as the shrew/warden keeping them from their fix. You are so correct to compare it to the alcoholic. The reward justified the means in their compartmentalized little minds :) Yeah we women don't get that maybe it's because we are more mature and evolved, who knows. I had to quit asking that question of why, what were you thinking, a long time ago. There is NO answer at least no cut and dry answer. Yes, the OW is just a plaything. A diversion from the reality they need to escape for whatever reason they come up with at the time or even when trying to explain their past behavior. I truly don't think they know and they search like hell to come up with answers to our incessant questions just to shut us the fuck up!!! A very wise woman told me many, many years ago when I had just started dating "...remember TH a stiff cock has no conscience"! A huge statement that went wholly un-understood at the time however, truer words have NEVER been spoken.
BTW--You and your blog rocks :)
- AnonymousFebruary 14, 2014 at 2:25 PM
My husband was like yours, Trying Hard. He was sneaking out at night after I had gone to bed, and when I woke up I thought he had gone to work early - until one morning I woke up at 4 a.m. and he wasn't there. Then I knew. He did this for almost a year. At first he acted the same at home but withdrawn. I thought he was just tired. Then he started being hypercritical of me. He had cancer and had lost so much weight he looked terrible, but he felt superior to me and denied that he was sick. Then after months of this he started telling me in so many words that he was getting sex and I wasn't - just being cruel right to my face. A couple of times he even talked to her on the phone sitting right next to me and would laugh at me. Then he got really sick and found out he had a week or so to live and all of a sudden I was so pretty, he was never sorry he married me (even told his coworkers this - they told me so), etc. I took care of him his final week and he died. He never said he was sorry. I never knew who she was or anything. Was he going to divorce me after 35 years of marriage if he hadn't gotten sick? Was he seeking revenge on me because I had interstitial bladder disease and Sjogren's syndrome and couldn't have sex any more? I think he thought I was just cutting him off, even though he took me to the drs. & knew better. Maybe it was just an excuse to do what he always wanted to do. I don't know, but I know he was a broken, sad, guilty man when he died, and I never said a word of rebuke to him. Not one, because I knew he was going to die soon. Sometimes I wish I had at least asked who it was and why? I feel ashamed to live in this town with everyone knowing what he did, so I am going to move and start over at 67 years old and this time live the way I want to live. I know one thing, I learned I never want to die with the guilt he had to have had. I want to die with my children and grandchildren beside me and proud of me and the way I conducted my life. I would never want to die a cheater, in shame the way he did.Delete
- AnonymousFebruary 16, 2014 at 6:55 AM
What a sad story. As a physician myself I'm sure a lot of what ur husband did was related to his psychological response to his having cancer. U don't have to ask why- it was probably his escape from the real world which u were a part of. The affair is fantasy. Sometimes I tell my husband he took the cowardly way instead of trying to face his problems whatever they were: our marriage being in a rut, child centered lives, feeling neglected, being depressed because he was always working (he's an overachiever workaholic extremely successful physician himself), he chose a fantasy way out of his real life responsibility.Delete
I myself am agnostic, so I can't say that u will be rewarded in heaven for what u have been thru. I hope there is karma. But if not, I can tell u u have a beautiful admirable attitude of where & how u want to carry urself in ur life. God bless u & thank u for ur post.
Let's try stay positive btw, many women of on this site turn to others for encouragement and support unlike other sites we understand each other as many are reconciling with our husbands. I would hate to think that unhelpful comments made could set us women back. I prefer to believe that my husband didn't think about me and my feelings, he was thinking of himself. Much of what we tell ourselves post d day is what gets us through the day. People may be quick to knock our decision on staying, however if we have made the decision to stay we have the right to defend that decision, that's how it certainly feels at times x xReplyDelete
- AnonymousFebruary 6, 2014 at 2:26 PM
My husband told me he barely thought of me during the affair. He recognizes that he was a self-absorbed child needing indulgence. If I (mommy)/his life wasn't giving him what he wants, he decided he would take whatever made him feel good. But he wasn't thinking about who I really am and how I deserved to be treated. When someone is truly thinking of another person in a loving way, they are thinking of them with empathy and consideration. I might have come into the picture for brief moments, but he wasn't thinking, "what am I doing and how is it going to affect the person I promised fidelity to?"ReplyDelete
I love that quote about a stiff cock...
- AnonymousFebruary 8, 2014 at 1:12 AM
Elle, soon I am going to give myself a "real name" to use here. You have not clue one how much you have helped me since day 3, at the start if this year. You have no idea what this blog has gifted me with.ReplyDelete
It took a while.. I could not face the "club" aspect for the first 48 or so hours, lol..until like others I had gone through the all the other "divorce him" websites.
As heartbroken, crushed, pissed, confused, COMPLETLY and utterly blindsided, shattered, shaking, crying, and disgusted as I was, after a few days I wanted HOPE.
I found that here.
For whatever reason, I never asked him why, I still have not. I know that no answer will ever satisfy me. I have asked him why he did not talk to me if there was an issue, told him I will never understand that part of this.
I also immediately, instinctually knew that it wasn't about me. I instinctively knew he had to write a letter and say good bye and then delete this entire fake email account, give me his passwords to everything. He complied with every single thing I asked for all within an hour of discovery. Yes, I discovered, I was not told. Anyone reading this knows that feeling I would wish on no one.
Others online told me he was a liar. Once a cheater always a cheater, that this was all a show, that he would do it again, that there were more (there were two I discovered, along with a whole bunch of failures he instigated, ouch)
He agreed to immediate MC, I don't know how anyone can get through this without professional help. he answers every question (I never ask about her, her name is not uttered in our home) he assures me everyday, in many ways that he will go through hell for me and with me.
I have not made the last month easy for either of us, this is the hardest thing I have ever been thought and it's no walk in the park for me, but I think it's just as hard for him, I really do.
So thank you, I hope every woman who reads this comes to know it's not about her and there no why that will make sense, your husband, our husbands had a chance to come to us first, or divorce us and chase someone else. But they didn't. They made big big mistakes, but this is not about you or me. THEY made the mistake, and if they are man enough they will cop to that and work with us.
I would not believe that if. Had not found your blog Elle, thank you. For everything you post, thank youReplies
Thank-you for your heartfelt post. I'm glad you instinctively took such positive steps in the wake of finding out. My guess is you've got really strong boundaries in place, something I've had to learn post D-Day.Delete
I'm so glad this site has been helpful to you. I do indeed know how important this site is for many women, me included. It's the site I wished I had found after D-Day. And the women who come to it are incredible, compassionate and smart women trying to navigate a difficult (and publicly unpopular) choice.
- AnonymousFebruary 8, 2014 at 10:28 AM
Thank you everyone for your words of wisdom. I really related to this post Elle...i often think what was in your mind man?! Or more appropriately what wasn't! One thing that I have found helpful was something Peggy Vaughn said that our husbands are not necessarily rejecting us personally, they are rejecting their role of husband, father, etc...rejecting responsibilities and a long lasting deep commitment to a wife that takes work. It is intoxicating to have a "butterfly in the stomach...teenage like forbidden love affair" just like an addict with no thought of how much his actions are devastating others...his wife, children, family members. My husband (who is a recovering drug addict) told me he did it simply because "it felt good". Plain and simple selfishness. I try to keep these things in mind on the really hard days when it feels so personal and all I can think about is that my husband picked her over me for a time, or perhaps he just picked how she made him feel...she personally was irrelevant. jenReplyDeleteReplies
You hit the nail on the head with your observation that "he just picked how she made him feel..." There's much research to indicate that affairs create much of the same brain chemistry as drugs. Your husband, being a recovering addict, can be susceptible to that quick high, particularly if he's not very far along in recovery.
This isn't personal, any more than choosing a needle over a spouse is personal. As the child of an alcoholic, it took me a long, long time to understand that my mother didn't "choose" alcohol over me. She was an addict. It was never a "choice". And she did ultimately choose to give up an addict's life, but it was never, ever easy. It took every ounce of willpower and determination and support she could muster.
In our case, the affair revealed what a truly addictive personality my husband has. He was always a thrill-seeker, loved to have a good time, uninhibited, prone to overimbibing (though not frequently, and able to tolerate alot of booze in one sitting), unable to limit himself, always looking for escape, and indulging in much fantasizing. Addiction runs in his family. While he wasn't unsafe or a "drunk," the addictive sensibility was something we were always aware of. But it wasn't until he admitted to being a porn and love addict, that everything clicked. Though it was something I never ever imagined was going on, it has finally opened him up to being able to really see the affair for what it was for him. Attending Love Addicts meetings has really opened him up to seeing how his mind works--seeking escape through fantasy and pleasure--and it is a huge punch of truth in the gut for him. He has to own up to a very dark part of himself that he has been trying to escape and put on me or others for his whole life and our whole relationship. This has allowed us to address deeper, longstanding issues in our relationship that have nothing to do with other women.Delete
Above someone mentioned "once a cheater, always a cheater" much in the way one is always an alcoholic. But the label "cheater" is unfair, atleast in my situation. Cheater is so judgement loaded and defines the person as a who is always emotional or sexually unfaithful to his spouse. And it bypasses the real issue. I think it is more accurate to say "once an addict, always an addict." He can clearly see that the action of cheating is just a symptom of being an addict--a person whose brain chemistry is dependent on pleasure and escape. My husband was not a cheater before his affair and he is no longer a cheater. He has decided that he doesn't want another woman and unlike alcohol or drugs, it is harder to pursue love or sex addiction once you admit it. But he is now willing to really look at his other escapist behaviors that have been the deeper issue in his life and our marraige.
- AnonymousFebruary 9, 2014 at 9:33 AM
I too appreciate this blog and thank you for your gift of writing! I am 15months past DDay or as I prefer to call it the day I got my marriage back...my husband had a 2year affair that fell on the heels of his father's death...I have to say that I have asked the why...what were you thinking...why was I worth loosing...you all know the drill...and in all reality he WASN'T!!! not about me his 3 kids or the man he used to be who always said, "THE BEST PREDITOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR"....he was broken and he found another broken married woman (who actually divorced her husband during their affair) a woman who was my competition in high school...that was hard to take but that's the ego taking over... I can say he WAS NOT thinking then but boy is he thinking NOW! and I thank GOD for that every day....I really think the WHY is almost a rhetorical question...this is my first post here but I have been reading it for quite a few months...I agree with so many others in that this site is HELPFUL and positive...and I need that more than the others I have seen...May I suggest another book that we BOTH have read and found it very helpful...The Secret to Surviving Infidelity by Dr. Scott Haltzman...and also PISD Post Infidelity Stress Disorder!!!ReplyDeleteReplies
Thanks for your post here. I'm glad you choose to come out from the shadows and share your thoughts. :)Delete
You're right -- the "why" is a rhetorical question because I don't think we'll ever get the type of answer we expect. Which is why my husband's honesty -- "I wasn't thinking about you" -- was actually helpful. Made me realize that I'll never really understand his "why".
- AnonymousFebruary 10, 2014 at 8:31 AM
I have read so many of these posts & articles that I'm not sure where Elle wrote this, but I recently read where she would argue that the fact that her husband had the affair makes him less likely to do this again. I wholeheartedly agree with that. It's human nature; as many times as u tell someone not to play with fire or they will get burned, for many if us we still have to experience it firsthand to learn our lesson for ourselves; otherwise it is forbidden fruit tempting our curiosity.Delete
Yesterday morning 6 months plus 1 day after d day, when we were cuddling in bed together before starting our day (which we do regularly now) out of nowhere my husband said: I'm sorry u found the email (how I discovered the affair which took place over 2 years ago). Then he followed it up with: I'm sorry for what I did.
That is why I stayed. My heart melted.
& btw someone recommended affair advice written by a former cheating husband. Great site that shows how they are suffering too.
- AnonymousFebruary 10, 2014 at 9:13 AM
Also to blogger who shared men are waffles with so many compartments women are spaghetti with everything intertwined: what a great analogy! Thank u for that; it is so true.Delete
I am right in the middle of the "toss the creep to the curb" and making my marriage work. I believe it's very important to look at all the options. I have learned so much from all the people who post, whether they have chosen to stay in their marriages or toss the cheating bastard to the curb. By enlightening myself with both options has made me even more resolute in my decision. I will say even though I have chosen to stay and try to forgive and rebuild my marriage, I am in firm agreement with the adage "Once a cheater, always a cheater". Trying to erase the fact of the arguably most egregious act our spouse has committed in our marriages is like putting your head in the sand. They cheated, they are cheaters and we are choosing to give them a second, or in some cases, a third chance at a marriage with us. Sure some of them may have rehabilitated and you are convinced that they will NEVER cheat again, but that doesn't change the fact that they are cheaters. Much the same as an alcoholic may be reformed, or a drug addict (Philip Seymour Hoffman) may be sober for many, many years there is NO changing the fact that they are addicts and are perfectly capable of falling to the temptation again. Cheaters are of the same ilk. Every book I have read says that cheating is the same as drug addiction. It rewires the brain. Those good feelings with the contribution of feel good chemicals is intoxicating and they loved it, just like the drug addict. This road is not for sissies and we need to be armed and educated or history will just sadly repeat itself. We are NOT dealing with the same innocent person we first married. This is a different person. Doesn't mean we can't make a life and even a happy life but let's just not be naive anymore.
So I say to those women who have chosen to get divorced and move on with their lives without their cheaters. Good for you. I wish you the best of luck. You didn't deserve what you got and maybe you are way smarter and independent than I. To those of us that are staying, I say the same. We all have our reasons for staying. For some it's the children, financial reasons and also for the mere fact that we just really love these meatheads! In my case divorcing would have affected many more people than just me and my H. It would have been a dissolution of a company. The thought of affecting so many people's lives including many family members just to assuage my own pride was daunting to me. It would have been a legal war and for what?? I can't use the excuse that I wanted to set an example for my children because they are adults and way past any kind of influence I can impose. I actually believe one of my sons thinks I'm crazy for staying. Such is life. So yes we are all making decisions based on what is going on in our own lives. I don't judge any of us and all betrayed spouses have a lesson and a story that deserves to be respected. I haven't read many blogs that are visceral towards those of us who are staying. I'm sure we are being judged as whimpering nitwit women who can't get along without a man. But I know who I am and what my motives are for my choices.
Elizabeth Edwards stuck by her husband. Jenny Sanford tossed him to the curb and left him to go "walk that Appalachian Trail"! Both women made their own choices and I respect both of them. We can learn from both these women and the tough choices they made.
I do not however respect anyone who judges others.Replies
I agree. There is no right path and any of us who thinks we knows what another "should" do is fooling herself. I think betrayal triggers deep feelings in people and is, therefore, really polarizing. But we need support and compassion, whatever choice we make. Judgement doesn't help any of us and, I think, speaks more about the one doing the judging than the one judged.
Tryinghard - you hit the nail on the head. I appreciate everything you said. We are all somewhere on the the same boat together, but still have our individual circumstances. I too felt it was too daunting to toss the lying scum to the curb. Too many people that would be too hurt. Including myself. I stayed for 2 reasons. Financial for one, as I'm older and would not be able to support myself and it would have been hard for my husband as well. The other reason is the simple fact that we had been married for 36 years when the first train hit me broadside. I simply could not envision life without him and I did love him. I've never been so destroyed as I have been over this last 2 years with all of the trickle truth and finally catching him in the 'act' and then full disclosure. I know for a fact that one of my son's thinks I'm crazy to stay, but all 3 of our kids are very forgiving and have also chosen to love their dad back into the family. It's been 2 years from the beginning of this hell to where we are today. I never want to do this again. I won't. But I also believe I won't have to because the brain of my husband is being re-wired yet again to being healthy. I believe it can be done and he will not forever be a 'cheater'. He was once a sinner and a 'cheater', but with God all things are possible. Thanks again for your article. Bravo!!Delete
- AnonymousFebruary 10, 2014 at 4:15 PM
Trying hard I hear you loud and clear! The "judgers " out there are just that...judgers! Everyones story is different! Although I told my husband once that I feel like what happened to us reads like a textbook case! Married 34 years (at the start of his affair) empty nest...his father died...last of both sets of parents...I'm sure the sex was predictable ...and now "this is it?" He feined trouble with "ED".....once his affair was full blown he cut me off...(he has since told me it was SLEAZY to sleep with 2 women ....no comment. Ha!) last night I asked him for probably the hundrrth time did he ever bring her into OUR home. He has always said NO. I asked him why should I believe that answer.... well he broke down and said he was so selfish.... and it was because he didn't want to get caught....we have lived here 30 years and everyone knows everyone AND their cars! Also there are lots of people in the music and Hollywood buisness. They do NOT keep regular hours....soo I think I FINALLY have my answer ...NO he did not bring her inside our house...I wish it was because of some 'boundry' he had in place for me but it was a boundry to save his own ass none the less... I am 15 months out and I would say that year one was about REALITY. Year two is all about survival...I have more melt downs than I did in the beginning...and find that it's more about sorrow and sadness ... I really believe he won't do this again because he truly sees real RAW pain...and he never leaves my side while I sob uncontrollably ...he went into IC immediately and has been going 3x's a month for over a year...he is the man I missed for those 2years during his 'nomad' life.... I try my best not to judge him and I am finding empathy for that broken man...we will survive this...and we will be wiser for it. Slightly scarred BUT wiser nonetheless...again thank you for your site...Delete
TryingHard - 'Those good feelings with the contribution of feel good chemicals is intoxicating and they loved it, just like the drug addict.'Delete
You can crave something for a time but later understand better that your craving was mixed with disquiet, even dread. And not want to relive the experience. I had encounters in my 20s I'd rather forget, infatuation wasn't a pleasant experience.
I don't see my husband as 'a cheater'. His other qualities haven't disappeared because he chose to do something he's now very much ashamed of. I don't mind anyone else saying he is, or that all adulterers are, it's just the way I see him. I love him, and he's learnt a hard lesson. I don't believe his brain has been permanently rewired to cheat (our brains are being rewired all the time - from the BBC: 'Being online does change your brain, but so does making a cup of tea.')
I have two friends whose husbands had affairs. One was a serial adulterer who never expressed remorse, blamed my friend and even, she realised later, had a ten year affair with a woman who worked for them both! So she'd been sitting in their office for ten years, unaware of the grubby frisson of sexual tension under her nose. After 25 years of marriage he finally told my friend that he didn't see why he couldn't openly see other women and carry on living at home with his family. She threw him out. I saw him as he drove away - he felt.. misunderstood. He continued to blame his wife. He thoroughly enjoyed cheating for decades, I'm sure he felt entitled to the chemical high. I'd call him a cheater, no question.
The other friend's husband is a good man who had an affair and deeply regretted it. He emerged from the fog in a state of shock. He was discovered, the repercussions were terrible for two families, he felt humiliated. He's worked hard to recover his marriage, the respect of his adult children and to understand why he did something that afterwards made little sense. Some people told my friend she should leave him, which surprised me at the time (I was inexperienced, unlike now). It didn't seem to me a good enough reason to leave a man who so obviously loved her, whatever he'd done. I didn't then understand the magnitude of her pain. Still, I agree, no one should judge those who stay or go. When people are in deep suffering we can only offer compassion and listen, as Elle does here.
Hi IrisDelete
What you said makes a lot of sense to me. I do hope the "re-wiring" can be reversed. And the difference in the two scenarios makes perfect sense too. Some people are just incorrigible. I hope my husband is not in that camp and his actions since the affair has shown that he is not, mercifully. I hope I have made the right choice and more so that he has. There is no doubt about his love for me or I him. Even during the affair his love for me never wavered. He's admitted to that and to being terribly tormented.
I've tried the road that says, he's learned his lesson and he will never do that again. This notion only left me guessing if I was right. When I stick to the facts of what occurred and that I stand by my choices to remain I am much more peaceful. Believing the former only made me question my own sanity. Living and accepting the reality of my circumstances brings me peace of mind. The same with all this forgiveness crap. I don't know if I've forgiven or not. I think so but now I am to a point where it really doesn't matter. My H doesn't believe he's forgiven and I'm not sure he wants to be because he can't forgive himself. All I know is he's good to me now. He shows me every single day how grateful and sorry he is. He never misses a moment to touch me, kiss me, hold me and tell me how much he adores and loves me. We vacation at least once a month. Sometimes it's just short weekend trips and sometimes it's longer. We are always together. He's even helping around the house. This is NOT the same man so I can tell by his actions that I am important to him, that our marriage is important to him. I'm not sorry about reconciling but I do however understand, respect, and yes in some cases admire those women to left. The way I see it, I would have still gone through all the same turmoil (plus more!) had I decided to divorce him. It would have been seriously ugly and all I can think is the music of Flight of the Valkyries would have been playing the entire time. It would have been a war. I'm glad I didn't make that choice.
These forums and blogs help so much. I really appreciate your input because it's given me hope that those wires are being disconnected PERMANENTLY!
TryingHard - I'm hoping the same. And I haven't forgiven either. I'm only a year out, it's only recently stopped seeming insurmountable. I thought (and sometimes said): as much as I love you, I just can't stay with you. I want to but I can't. I don't think the pain will ever end. I was angry too - I'm still angry but it feels distant. I'm chewing over what happened, my second friend calls it 'rumination'. My husband's actions, over time, are giving me solace. And I'm in therapy. So is he. We've extended the mortgage..Delete
There's a site called 'mindhacks' which explores among other things popular misconceptions about the brain - if you like it look for a post about Neuroplasticity. 'It's currently popular to solemnly declare that a particular experience must be taken seriously because it 'rewires the brain' despite the fact that everything we experience 'rewires the brain'. So those weekend trips and vacations, his remorse and devotion, are rewiring his brain. And yours too.
You may well have regretted divorcing him, going by the stats. My first friend however is re-marrying after years establishing herself in her own right. She was strong, she was wise and she's been rewarded. I'm proud of both my friends.
- AnonymousFebruary 12, 2014 at 3:55 PM
Thank u to the above women. Very early on I read an on line article written by a betrayed wife who reconciled & said she never regretted it. She relayed the story of a married female friend who divorced & got remarried & always regretted it saying although she loved her second husband, not as much as her first who was still her best friend, if only she could have gotten past her anger.Delete
& to both of u, to me it sounds like u both have achieved forgiveness, which is not to be confused with condoning. U seem to have both come to terms with what happened & have moved on to some degree. That is forgiveness (not forgetting)
- Sam
Hi Sam xDelete
Not quite come to terms with, but certainly moving on to some degree. It really helps to not be alone with this. x
- AnonymousFebruary 10, 2014 at 8:36 AM
Thank you Elle for the support and vulnerability. That is what makes this group so special...what is said here is so uplifting and helpful for us who are rebuilding marriage relationships. I feel blessed that I found this blog within days of d day. JenReplyDelete
- AnonymousFebruary 10, 2014 at 9:10 AM
Ok, done with your siteReplyDelete
- AnonymousFebruary 14, 2014 at 9:15 AM
To all of u who want to know what they were & are thinking, I highly recommended a site which one of BWC ladies said she reads: affair-advice. It's a blog written by a former cheating husband. He wrote a post about what he was thinking during affair & after d day. Not one size fits all, but I think it goes a long way towards recovery & healing. If u want to understand someone u have to walk a mile in their shoes. If u want to "forgive" (which doesn't mean condone), u must find a way to empathize & I think a lot of us can benefit from reading this gentleman's writing.ReplyDelete
Hi Elle (and all),ReplyDelete
I'm hoping you might have some encouraging advice. My husband has been talking to/seeing the same girl off and on for about 3 years. She shows up for a few months, then she's gone for a year, then she's back. Long story short, he moved out 7 months ago. Quickly their thing died out, and we got back together (not moved in yet, but talking about it). 3 months later, she came back. Now they are dating, and he is open with me about that. But still tells me he loves me and doesn't know what he wants and calls me almost daily. I'm trying to hard to hold out for my marriage. I believe he's still in the affair fog and it isn't really about her but about other things in his life right now. But how do you know when it's addiction, or when they are really in love with this other person? He said before (when he came back) that he didn't know what he was thinking, and that she was like a drug, etcetc. But now that they are dating and seem happy...? I'm so confused. Thanks to all of you for support!Replies
You're husband is a classic fence-sitter (I won't say what else he is, but you can probably guess). He'll sit there, having his cake and you too, as long as you (and she!) will let him. Surely you want more than this. Surely you can see how you're disrespecting yourself by allowing this. You've made it clear that you want to rebuild your marriage. He's made it clear that he's happy having two women after him. Whether or not he loves her or is using her as a distraction doesn't really matter at this point. What does matter is that he's willing to sacrifice you on the alter of his "confusion".Delete
I think it's time to cut your losses and cut him loose. I'm sure he'll come running back again. But this is who he is, someone who only considers his own needs. You deserve better. He's not it.
- AnonymousApril 1, 2014 at 3:50 PM
Dear Elle and all you ladies! My story is kinda different... We are young and engaged. Our love story is 6years old. And in these 6years I caught my bf cheating on me at least twice. I can tell he loves me, (in his own selfish way). Can a guy love the girl who he's cheating on??? The first time it happened I tried to end our relationship but he tried so hard to win me back and make me believe... Our story had its ups and downs, when we were far from each-other he had other stories which he hided from me, even though we were far, he keept calling me daily and telling me he loved me...blahblah. So this time again I chose to forget everything and when we finally got back to each-other, we got engaged, hoping that we had grown up, I was hoping he had learned from his mistakes and from that day on, everything would be ok. 1year after our engagement I find out he keeps talking to his bitches, has fake accounts, hides things from me... Even though, he was always kind to me, he loves to spend as much time as possible with me, but in the same time he acts like a playboy with other girls, with many other girls. He doesn't care about any of them. When I found out and he saw the pain I was going through he felt so sorry, he swore he would never ever do that again to me, he was crying and saying he didn't deserve my forgiveness because I was always there for him and caring about him, I gave him everything and I am much better looking, smarter and blahblah than all of the other girls. So he had no need to do what he did. When I ask why, all he can say is: I don't know, I was not thinking, I am ashamed to even talk about it... it has nothing to do with you. I just don't think. I assumed I would never get caught and nobody would get hurt because those stories mean nothing to me. I know it all sounds bullshit because he said the exact same words the first time he cheated on me. In the same time, I see he means it, he really feels sorry. He felt sorry the first time as well, so why did he do it AGAIN? What should I do??? I know he loves me, I know he is sorry, I love him too, I know he doesn't wanna hurt me and really wants to become a better partner but I am not sure he is not gonna fall again in the first opportunity he gets... What type of cheater is he? Please help, I am in deep pain, ashamed to talk to friends because they would consider me crazy still destroying myself for this liar. And I also can not talk to my cheater, because he says he is ashamed and keeps avoiding the topic trying to protect me from feeling worse.ReplyDelete
Respect to all of you! **eliReplies
You've had too much to deal with...and you're not yet married. I hope you'll take my response as the advice of a woman who's not so young anymore but far wiser than my younger self (who also overlooked a boyfriend's cheating) and who would love to spare you the pain of a cheating husband.
Of course, you're in deep pain. The person you've trusted with your heart is breaking it. This should show you that he doesn't deserve your heart. That doesn't mean breaking it off with him will be easy. It sounds as if he's a master at wooing you. But getting someone to fall in love is easy. KEEPING them in love is the tough part. And he has shown himself to be incapable of that. It could be because he's young. It could be because he's inherently dishonest. It could be any number of reasons. But none of them change the fact that he's showing you who he is. And unless you want to be married to someone who cheats on you (and, trust me, you do NOT), walk away now.
I know you love him. But you need to love yourself more. You need to treat yourself with the respect that he isn't treating you with. We accept the love we think we deserve. (That's from The Perks of Being a Wallflower -- great book.) Why don't you think you deserve someone who loves you enough to not hurt you? You are worthy of more and better.
You're aware that your friends would think you're crazy for staying with him. That's because you know they want better for you. You need to want better for yourself.
He won't talk to you about it NOT because he's protecting you from feeling worse but because he's protecting HIMSELF from feeling worse. This guy is focussed on what he wants, when he wants it. He does not deserve you.
Please take my advice and let me know, years from now, that you're with a guy who realizes just how lucky he is to have you.
And please read TryingHard's advice to you below. She has put it far better than I did.Delete
Thank you very much Elle. I tried add coment below but due to problems with my connection I don't know if it was posted.Delete
OK well you are not going to like what I have to say.
Run, don't walk. You do not have that much time invested in this guy and mercifully there are not children involved. OK so you love him and he loves you. Good for you, I'm sure you are both lovable. Enough said about loving. There's all kinds of ways to love and be loved. Love is NOT the issue. Respect and boundaries are the issue and this guy doesn't have them and you are NOT the one to teach them to him. He will keep doing and get better at his lies and deceit because he is learning how to work you.
You are young. There MANY wonderful, respectful fish in the sea. Please do not set yourself up for this pattern of abuse. Some cheaters change, many do not. It takes a lot of maturity and effort. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE LIKE THIS! There is no such thing as a one and only, there are no soul mates there are only mature, respectful, moral people in this world. This man is having a hard time grasping that. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, ITS A DUCK. Walk away and let him be someone else's problem.
I was Googling last night and found an interesting article regarding these men. The writer called them Cakemen because there are men who just want their cake and eat it too. I think if you google Cakemen and infidelity you might find it.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I can't stand thinking about young women continuing to give these losers second, third, and fourth chances. Get out while you have very little invested in this guy. Read books about liars, sociopaths and narcissists and I think you will see a pattern.
Good luck to you. And if you stay with him you are going to need it.
Love you ladies! Thanks for your advices. I would answer the same as you did to a young girl trying to fix a serial cheater. So I realise that I know what should be done here, I just don't have the guts to do it. So I keep fooling myself, trying to get a different answer. I am not a coward, not at all. I am Albanian, Albania is a small country, very conservative. And ending an engagement is not that easy, it will affect a lot of people, my family at most. It was different when we were just dating. I live in a small city where I can not find a job whatsoever even why I graduated in accounting... So what is keeping me stuck with this guy is not only love I guess. No doubt I do have strong feelings for him and everything happened hurts so much, but now I realise I can not save this, I can't change him. And I did try so hard. 6years was long enough for me. I did a lot of reading these days and I think he is a sex addicted cheater, the worst! I don't wanna worry about this anymore, I should focus on myself, on my future, I am hoping to find a job overseas and dissapear for a period, it would make everything easier. God help me and all of you!ReplyDeleteReplies
Oh my. This does add a new spin and I so feel for you and your feelings of being almost trapped in this relationship for cultural and family values. I am so sorry. But maybe you can be the change that everyone needs to see and put an end to this type of behavior and acceptance of this behavior.
Please don't feel that this is only a situation particular to your country. Trust me there are many American women that stay in abusive situations and worse than this. It may seem that American women have so many opportunities, and we do, but there are many who choose stay because they are scared of the same things you are scared of.
Maybe you feel this is your only opportunity to marry given the cultural circumstances but that is a choice only YOU will know how to make. Marriage is not everything, I don't care what country you live in.
I am so sorry that such a bright young woman such as yourself is having to face this. You know when we old, crusty women face it at least we have a little more experience under our belts to know somewhat what to do. We know where to find the resources to help us. I hope we have at least given you something to think about.
Hoping and praying you find the right answer for YOU.
Thank you dear! Yes, you made me see things from a different point of view. Hoping for the best. :*Delete
- AnonymousMay 15, 2014 at 8:27 AM
My marriage turned into a sexless marriage after my rejection of my husband in the wake of feeling abandoned with our twins - one was disabled .... I wanted to fix it and talked openly to him about it. Within 6 months I went to a therapist who advised me to get him into couples therapy (we did not because he did not think it was the right thing to do) ... and to initiate sex again. I did and was rejected... from 2006-2013 (d-day) we had sex a few times every year. I exploded once in a while and begged him to show up in our marriage. I even told him how my self esteem suffered and that I might even be tempted to have an affair if this continued. I asked him if he was gay (as I am an exceptionally attractive woman) and called him impotent.. He never acted. In October 2013 I was angry with him again and opened his FB for the first time only to find out that he had had four different inappropriate relationships with other women. One of them had involved secret vacation trips and sex with a very young, very beautiful woman (my complete opposite - bohemian, dark-haired, tatooed, nose-ring). Two had involved kissing and touching. One was just steamy emails from an infatuated idotic woman which he had enjoyed receiving (eeew). After all three d-days, I decided to try to make it work as he seems very remorseful. All the affairs had been more or less simultanously from 1. August 2011- 15. December 2011, when he felt like a complete failure as none of his plans for his business seemed to go through... I recalimed my territory with hysterical bonding after finding out that he had given to others what he denied me... Our sexlife is now back to a more normal rate, but I am very tired of working so hard to make our marriage work for so many years and feel the resentment towards him kicking in again. I am afraid to loose the momentum and just slide back into our very unsatisfactory marriage.ReplyDeleteReplies
You two need to learn new skills in terms of dealing with each other. An improved sex life is great...but not if it isn't accompanied with improved interactions on all levels. You need to be able to better communicate. You need to be able to talk about your feelings/fears/passions/whatever with each other. And you need to be able to treat each other (and yourselves) with compassion.Delete
Without a marriage counsellor to teach you this, it's really hard. Counselling isn't because you're "crazy" or anything. It's simply someone to teach you skills that you weren't able to learn in childhood or early adulthood. Without having learned those skills, we tend to fall into patterns that don't always serve us well. And once those patterns are entrenched, it's difficult to move out of them -- I think of it like those car tracks in the mud. Once the mud has hardened, our tires just want to keep following those familiar tracks. We get resistance when we try to move out of them.
I would urge you to try counselling. At the very least, commit to reading some good books on getting past affairs (Janis Abrams, Peggy Vaughan, Shirley Glass, I'm sure there are others).
You don't mention what work your husband has done around his cheating. Does he have an understanding of why he did this? Is he able to understand how to stop himself from going down that road again? Has he committed to change?
You're smart to want to move this newfound intimacy into other areas of your marriage. I hope he'll take the opportunity too to rebuild your marriage.
- AnonymousMay 15, 2014 at 11:25 AM
Dear Elle, Thank you for taking time to answer. Very insightful! ...after the infidelity, my husband suddenly agreed to couples therapy, and it has been very helpful... especially giving me a place to vent my feelings with an intermediate person to interprete what I say to avoid defensiveness in my husband. His favourite remark to shut me up all those years when I asked for change was that I just wanted to control him by inflicting guilt...which really wasnt true - I just wanted us to work on our marriage. He has started to look into his abusive childhood where everybody just pretended that it was normal and said nothing. He even compartmentalized his bad experiences to an extent where he has trouble remembering... exactly as he tells me about his trouble remembering his feelings and thoughts when he was with the OW. He has vowed to do everything he can to make it up to me and be the best husband ever and to never cheat again... I am just so tired. He has agreed to reading different books like not just friends and other relevant material together with me, and we have tried to do it nightly as a basis for discussions about our own situation. This has been very helpful, but it has now been 11 days where we have been too busy to do it, and he has not mentioned that we need to start again... always my initiative - never his. I am TIRED! Thank you for lending an ear.ReplyDeleteReplies
You cannot manage his recovery from this. As tempting as it is to direct it -- "read this", "go to therapy", etc -- you can't do it. What you can do is create your terms for reconciliation. It's certainly reasonable for you to say that you can't consider rebuilding a marriage with a man who isn't willing to do whatever it takes to get to the bottom of his issues in order to be healthier. The difference is control. You can't control him. You can only create boundaries around yourself to keep yourself emotionally and physically safe. And to only invite in those who will protect and support you.Delete
And I know what you're saying about being tired. This is exhausting stuff. Sleep when you can. Take good care of yourself. And trust that this gets easier as long as you stay focused on your own healing.
- AnonymousJuly 18, 2014 at 10:20 AM
I am 3 months post D-day. I too have decided to stay with my husband and work things out. We have been married 15 years and have 3 children. It felt like a lot to walk away from. And the fact remains that I still love him. I struggle so much with "why". He had a 2 year affair with a woman 12 years his junior. There were a lot of factors that I see now that set up the perfect setting for an affair. What I can't understand is why it went on for so long. I struggle with that a lot. 2 years of lies and deception is a lot to recover from. I found an email between them where they said they loved each other. That was devastating to me! I knew we were having problems, but I never doubted that he loved me. I do now. He says that he loved me the whole time, thought about me all the time but he just couldn't stop. It was like a drug. I can't get past how he can say he loved me and do the things that he did. He tells me he really didn't love the OW, that he told her a lot of things he didn't mean... But I have a hard time buying into that. He is talking and answering my questions, except the why. He doesn't know why he kept it going for so long. Why he told her he loved her. I wish I knew if he really did love her. Can you really love two people at once?ReplyDelete
This blog has helped me so much! I found it on day 3 and have read it over and over again. It is so helpful and comforting to know there are others that are going through the same things. Those who have chosen to stay. Thank you all for the strength you have given me and others.Replies
The short answer is 'yes', though it would certainly be a very different type of love. Affairs are about fantasy. They aren't about the day-to-day stuff of a marriage. So while you were in love with your husband when you were dating, my guess is it's a far different love than what you experience now, having washed his dirty underwear and mopped his sweaty brow when he had the flu.Delete
So often what people in affairs really love is the escape. They love the excitement. The chance to step out of their lives into this world where nobody sweats about when the mortgage is coming due or whose turn it is to get up in the night with a sick child. Who wouldn't love that?
So my guess is, that when your husband now realizes he didn't really mean it, what he's saying is that he recognizes that he didn't love her so much as he loved the escape. That what he feels for you is far deeper and richer, though he couldn't see it at the time until he almost lost it.
Three months is so raw and new. I suspect you'll understand better as you learn more about the dynamics of affairs and as your husband continues to open his eyes to how deluded he was.
- AnonymousJuly 18, 2014 at 1:58 PM
Thank you so much! This one response from you has helped me more than the MC we have been seeing for 3 months. (He is more concerned with me and my depression right now then delving into the deep issues of the affair it seems). What you wrote makes perfectly good sense. Yes I do love him with a deeper love now then I did when we were dating and I do hope that him coming so close to losing it all will make him see what he didn't see before. This is the first time this has happened to me and yes it is still very fresh. But I do feel like I am in a better place then I was even a month ago. I really do know that this blog has helped me. You and the other people are so insightful and so caring for others. It's amazing how something so horrific can bond people together. You can't understand the complexity of this issue unless you have dealt with it yourself. Thank you again for your quick reply and for having a healthy forum for people to come to and try to get some understanding.ReplyDelete
I'm so sorry that you have become on of us. We've all been where you are. Elle gave you the perfect answer and she is right on. You will look for the answer to the why question forever and what we are really hoping for is the answer that it didn't happen. That is never going to come. There will never be enough answers to why.
I have found that the simplest answer to why is because he could and it was easy. The better question is , how could you. Delve into that and you may find some answers.
Believe him when he says he loves/loved you. Everyone's meaning behind those words is different. Yes he loved you but he was not acting in a very loving way. Truth is he loved himself more. He didn't know how to deal with issues inside himself so he looked outward which never works. I don't care if it's, booze, drugs, affairs etc. they are all quick fixes to a troubled person. I'm not even going to give his bad behavior of saying that it was a problem in your marriage or relationship. The cheating is all on him. Don't even blame his affair partner because honestly if it weren't her it would have been someone else. He can kick a trash can and fifty more just like her will jump out willing to have an affair for their own selfish gain.
Stick around here. There are many wise folks here willing to support you. You're not unique or alone in this hell. You're going to be ok one way or another, just be smart.
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2014 at 7:42 AM
Dear Trying Hard,ReplyDelete
Thank you for your insightful words as well. I will try to take your advice and stop asking why. I think that it's just so new that it's hard for me to wrap my head around. I'm hoping as time goes on that I will be able to arrive at a place that I can live with. I know I will never get all my questions answered I just can't understand why anyone, man or woman, would cause so much hurt and damage to the people they love. I'm sure there are some deep rooted issues that led him to do what he did. The time frame is a big one for me too. For 2 years he lived a double life and this woman who knew he was married and had three children, didn't have any moral code obviously to not go along with it. I do have a lot of anger towards her and towards him right now. But I am trying to look more at what he is doing now to try and make restitution and focus on that instead of all that happened. I can't change that and I know that, but I can change my future. He has literally done everything I have told him to do, even sold the car where some of the rendezvous occurred. I think he is remorseful and I think he really does feel like he was trying to get an escape from reality. But I am just having a really hard time with trusting him and believing him and not playing mind movies in my head over and over again. I wonder sometimes of that will ever stop. I have good days and bad days and triggers hit me at any time and I feel like I'm back to square one all over again.
You are right, this is hell. It is hell on earth. I keep reading that it gets better and you get stronger but I guess I'm not quite there yet. I will stick around for sure bc this blog has helped me to understand so much. I am not the same person I was before this happened. Something broke inside of me on D Day and I don't know if I will ever be that person again. I feel like I'm moarning the loss of that me, the loss of what I thought my marriage was, etc....
Hope that makes sense. Thanks for your comments. You ladies are angels!
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2014 at 7:58 AM
Dear Trying Hard,ReplyDelete
Thank you so much for your thoughts as well. I am going to try to focus less on the why. I know it happened, I know the details and I can't change those. I need to learn to accept them and quit trying to make the past my present. It's just very hard. I'm sure there are some deep rooted issues on his end that caused him to do what he did. I hope that through counseling we are able to figure those things out. I just have a really hard time with it going on for 2 years! How can someone live a double life and constantly lie and deceive the people he loves? Man or woman, it's inconceivable to me. I do have anger towards him and to the OW. She knew he was a married man with three children. He told me that she told him that she wanted him the first time she saw him. So she played her hand and played on his vulnerability and he went right along with it. I'm trying to focus more on the future and the things that he is doing to make restitution, but sometimes the mind movies and the replaying of events and triggers make that very difficult. As I'm sure we are all aware. He has literally done everything that I have told him he needs to do, even selling his car where some of their rendezvous took place. I think he is remorseful and has guilt he's dealing with and wants to make it right. He has said that he wanted an escape so that makes sense to me what Elle said. We were having a lot of problems with our oldest son and it made the home environment not so happy. I think that was one of many factors that led him to do what he did. I just can't phathom how long it went on. He says he got in so deep that he couldn't get out. He says he didn't have the balls to tell me what he had done and he knew she would tell me if he broke things off. Which is exactly what happened. He says he didn't want to hurt me, but he knew he was bc of what he was doing. So he wasn't going to win either way. So he took the cowardly way and kept trying to appease her so she wouldn't tell me. Finally when he broke it off, he knew he was going to have to face the music. You can imagine the look on his face when he walked out of work one night and we were both there standing together. Cheaters worst nightmare.
Anyway, I guess I just am trying to find my way. I feel like I have changed as a person, and I moarn the loss of who I was before the affair. I moarn the loss of what I thought my marriage was and the love that I thought would be untouchable. Very naive. I feel like something broke inside of me that day and I'm just trying to put it back together. And my marriage back together. I just hope that one day I can arrive on the other side and look back without feeling so much hurt and anger.
Thanks again for your thoughts. You ladies are angels.Replies
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2014 at 1:32 PM
Oops! Both of those last ones were from me! I thought it erased my first one, so I typed out another. ��Delete
No worries. You make great points in each one!Delete
I do think we need to mourn the loss of who we were and the marriage we thought we had. It's absolutely a loss we need to grieve. But I think that sense of feeling untouchable is, in hindsight, naive. Nobody's marriage is untouchable. However, it is possible to create a marriage in which each partner knows that, while they may be tempted, the cost is simply too high.
Dearest anonReplyDelete
I could have written every single word you wrote. This is my story too. My husbands affair lasted 4 years and thousands of dollars spent, stolen from my business given to her.
I too still can't wrap my head around how someone can live so many lies for that length of time. Yep my husband was scared of her telling me as well if he cut it off and well he liked having his cake and eating it too. It worked until it didn't work for him. I too have great hate red for his AP and she's been diagnosed with terminal cancer. I hate that I revel at the thought of her dying a slow painful death. And karma can be such a bitch. But she sure as hell didn't think twice about the pain she was inflicting on me, my family and my business for her own personal gain.
I'm 3 years out and I am at full acceptance and probably even forgiveness what ever that is:). It takes time and I still do have those damn triggers but they don't last as long and aren't as debilitating. You'll get there but you have to do things to empower yourself to get there. I had to really start believing in myself and my ability to know I would be ok if he left me or if I would choose to throw him out. You keep making yourself strong and no doubt this experience will make you stronger.
- AnonymousJuly 21, 2014 at 6:08 PM
Trying Hard,ReplyDelete
You give me hope. Some days I don't know if I will ever be able to be rid of this hatred. For both of them. It's funny you spoke of karma. I have thought about karma a lot lately. I am normally a very nice and compassionate person...but I truly hope that the OW has the exact same thing happen to her one day. I know that's awful, but I feel exactly as you do. She didn't care about what she was doing to me or my kids, so why should I? I'm just going day by day and hoping that I will one day be able to accept and forgive. I know that's the only way. I don't think I'm strong enough right now to even think about forgiveness yet. But I hope to get there. Reading yours and Elle's comments the last few days has helped me a lot. I know you both "get it" whereas I don't feel like most people do. So thank you both from the bottom of my heart!
My hope is that I've helped because that is all I have to offer. I'm no professional, or brainiac in psychology, nor marriage therapy. I can't even say for sure that I've made the right choices to stay. But I too live day by day and hope for the future. Some may call me a chump but that's ok, I can wear that moniker. What I'm not is stupid. I've learned so much from this experience and in a crazy, masochistic, way I'm glad Ive been given the opportunity to become much wiser in my old age. Who knows how this experience will serve me in the future. That said, I try to move forward and I've reached a point where I'm satisfied in my relationship. I like myself more than ever and so does my husband. I've proven to be a strong woman to him and the rest of the world. I have my own demons but my husbands poor judgement is not one of them.
I suppose where I to measure my marriage only on fidelity I would definitely leave. He betrayed me very deeply and for a long time but I have found value in our relationship that surpasses the infidelity and it works for me.
Trust, forgiveness are just words that are subjectively meaningful. Don't put a timetable on them. You will know when it comes and it may never. But if your life is working on a day to day basis and you aren't totally miserable with those choices, then rest assured you've made a good decision.
Hope I've helped. Be happy and be the best YOU can be. everything else will follow my friend:)
- AnonymousJuly 23, 2014 at 11:25 AM
I know my H wasn't thinking about me or the kids while embarking on his A.ReplyDelete
He was coming up on his 40th bday and to my surprise, he was horrified!
I started noticing changes in the way he dressed, he was what I saw as more secretive.
He had started travelling for work. he would be away for a week at a time. this continued for 6 months. That is when the emotional affair started with a younger, attractive co-worker who was having problems in her own marriage.
it remained emotional for quite sometime...you look great today, love your hair....blah, blah. it wasn't until months later that it turned physical, away for a training course for work, that was April, and then again in August and then one last time in October.
I don't believe either of them were in it for the physical/sexual aspect of it. They both needed their egos stroked. he needed to feel like a stud and she had a huge weight loss and liked the attention of another man I guess.
They were selfish. He didn't need her to feel like a stud, we had a great sex life and still do. he thought it was something he needed from someone else for the attention. I was apparently too busy with the kids...he didn't think about me, or the kids.
He has recently told me that everyday he came home from work, he was greatful that myself and the kids were still standing by him, even though he made a choice that will haunt him and me until the day we die.
I refuse to give up and so does he. we have invested too much time and effort to just throw it away.
Thank you Elle for your candid writings, very insightful!
- AnonymousJune 9, 2015 at 10:02 AM
What really gnaws at me is that a month before it happened, I was tempted to cheat on him. Due to his porn addiction (which he was able to hide from me) we rarely had sex anymore. I felt so unattractive after almost 13 years of physical neglect that I was tempted to hook up with someone just to prove to myself that I wasn't undesirable.ReplyDelete
The difference is I THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT IT WOULD DO TO HIM. What it would do to our son if my husband threw me out for cheating on him. What it would do to my self-respect. How I would have to live with it for the rest of my life. I stopped myself and thought about what would happen and decided not to do it. And yet he didn't do the same. That really eats at me.
Is this just a man/woman difference? Or the addiction? IDK. I do know he compartmentalized for decades, telling himself he could quit anytime, that what I didn't know wasn't hurting me (ha!!!), that it wasn't the porn that was killing our sex life, etc. So when it came to a head and he tried to cheat on me in real life, he was so skilled at compartmentalizing that he was able to do it, until the moment she actually started kissing him and he freaked out and left.
Some times it's a comfort to know he wasn't thinking about me (that he didn't think, "Who gives a crap about my wife, I'm going to get mine.") and sometimes it hurts all the more that we could be together for almost 14 years and he could throw it all away from a temporary thrill.
We started marriage counselling a few months before D-Day because I'd been tempted to cheat with someone I'd become friends with. I recognized this as dangerous to our marriage, I knew I didn't want to be that person. I had no idea what was already going on with him. So yes, I know your pain.
- AnonymousJune 10, 2015 at 8:50 AM
I wish I'd taken it as a warning sign and made us go to counselling (I considered it), but I was too ashamed that I'd been tempted to tell him. Although maybe it wouldn't have prevented what happened anyway. Playing the "what if" game kept me stuck for a long time, so I try not to think about it.Delete
There doesn't seem much point in thinking about it other than simply acknowledging what you know now.
As my latest blog post points out, we can't go back and make the past "pretty" but we can move forward and create something beautiful with our lives.
- AnonymousAugust 21, 2016 at 8:38 AM
I don't believe that my husband just wasn't thinking about me. It wasn't about 'compartmentalising'. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he knew that it would kill me. He just didn't care.ReplyDeleteReplies
Anon---Agree. No need to spin it any differentlyDelete


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Thursday, March 1, 2012
Cinnamon Nut Muffins
From the kitchen of One Perfect Bite...These tangy and sweetly spiced muffins are the result of several staged experiments gone bad. I was trying to create a muffin that had a crackly, sugar crusted top, much like that of a snickerdoodle. My quest began with cookies. Now, part of the problem was I'm not expert with this type of cookie. As a matter of fact, I had my first snickerdoodle just last week and I must admit I was underwhelmed. At the suggestion of the Silver Fox I grabbed a recipe from a source I trusted and made a batch for us to sample. They were fine but neither of us thought the cookies fell into the Remembrance of Things Past category. Not easily discouraged, but for reasons that are still unclear to me, I decided the topping, especially if it could be given some crunch, would be perfect for muffins. Out came the pots and pans and I began my search for what I hoped would be the ultimate muffin. My first attempt was a standard bread-type muffin that I thought was too dry. I moved on and tried a cake-style muffin that had better texture but surprising little flavor. I tried yet again and ended up recreating large French Breakfast Puffs. Still undeterred, I pulled out my go-to muffin recipe, which by the way comes from Cook's Illustrated, swapped out the sugar and added some nuts and spices for additional flavor and had another go at it. I must say the muffins were quite nice, but I was never able to achieve the crunchy top that started the whole experiment. If you are looking for a nicely spiced cake-type muffin, you might want to give these a try. They may not rival Madeleine's in the realm of memory, but they are great with tea. Here's the recipe.
Cinnamon Nut Muffins...from the kitchen of One Perfect Bite adapted from Cook's Illustrated
1/2 cup granulated sugar
1 tablespoon cinnamon
3 cups all-purpose flour
1 tablespoon baking powder
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon mace
1/4 teaspoon nutmeg
10 tablespoons unsalted butter, softened
1 cup golden brown sugar, packed
2 large eggs
1-1/2 cups plain low-fat yogurt
1-1/2 cups toasted chopped walnuts
Vegetable oil, cooking spray or additional butter for muffin tins
1) Adjust oven rack to lower middle position and heat oven to 375 F. Mix topping cinnamon and sugar in a small bowl.
2) Mix flour, baking powder, baking soda, salt, mace and nutmeg in medium bowl; set aside.
3) Beat butter and sugar with electric mixer on medium-high speed until light and fluffy, about 2 minutes. Add eggs, one at a time, beating well after each addition. Alternating 1/3 at a time, beat in the dry ingredients and yogurt until a smooth, thick batter just forms. Fold in walnuts.
4) Spray 1 or 2 12-cup muffin tins with cooking spray or coat lightly with butter. Use large ice cream scoop to divide batter evenly among cups. Generously sprinkle tops with cinnamon sugar mixture. Bake until muffins are golden brown, about 25 minutes for the large muffins. Set on wire rack to cool slightly, about 5 minutes. Sprinkle again with cinnamon sugar. Remove muffins from tin and serve warm. Yield: 12 large or 18 medium muffins.
One Year Ago Today: German Chocolate and Almond Cocoa Cream Cake
Two Years Ago Today: Chicken Mole Poblano
28 comments :
- Alicia said...
I read through the recipe and it sounds amazing. I've never heard of mace though. I wonder what flavor that gives these muffins?
Will have to try them.
- March 1, 2012 at 12:29 AM
- David said...
Mary, These muffins sound terrific! My wife and I were spoiled by the great muffins we found in the Boston area some years back. Maybe these will get the job done for us... Thanks for the recipe. Take Care, Big Daddy Dave
- March 1, 2012 at 12:44 AM
- Ginny said...
I love muffins, and these looks so good. I will make six at a time and bake them in the toaster oven. And cinnamon is now really good for diabetes, so this is health food!
- March 1, 2012 at 1:10 AM
- Lenia said...
Wonderful recipe!I love the perfume of cinammon!Blessings,dear!
- March 1, 2012 at 2:13 AM
- Coleens Recipes said...
What a great breakfast!!
- March 1, 2012 at 3:23 AM
- My Little Space said...
Oh wow, what a funny looking muffin! Looks more like a scone. Cute! Have to bookmark this for sure. Thanks again, Mary.
Hope you're having a fabulous day.
- March 1, 2012 at 3:41 AM
thanks for your lovely sharing..
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- March 1, 2012 at 4:04 AM
thanks for your lovely sharing..
our websites are 徵信社. and 台南室內設計.
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- March 1, 2012 at 4:04 AM
- The Blonde Duck said...
With a name like that, how can they not be good?
- March 1, 2012 at 6:55 AM
- Tanna at The Brick Street Bungalow said...
Mary, you always amaze me in your quest for "one perfect bite". ;)
I'm sure I would have any of the versions you rejected. LOL!
Hope you have a wonderful day. blessings ~ tanna
- March 1, 2012 at 7:03 AM
- Jenn said...
I'm a fan of anything with cinnamon and nuts! I bet they smelled so wonderful while baking too!
- March 1, 2012 at 7:27 AM
- Sue/the view from great island said...
I'm on a lifelong quest for the perfect muffin, so I will give these a try, they certainly look the part! it's been ages since I've used mace, I can't even remember what it tastes like.
- March 1, 2012 at 8:37 AM
- Sue/the view from great island said...
I'm on a lifelong quest for the perfect muffin, so I will give these a try, they certainly look the part! it's been ages since I've used mace, I can't even remember what it tastes like.
- March 1, 2012 at 8:37 AM
- Henry said...
Wow looks delicious, think kind of post makes me visit food blog everyday.
- March 1, 2012 at 8:38 AM
- Rachana said...
This recipe sounds wonderful. So flavourful and delicious.
- March 1, 2012 at 8:49 AM
- Kim said...
Sometimes, I'm in quest for some stuff to... I totally recognized myself in your description. These muffins, even if they are not what you wanted to achieve looks pretty good!
- March 1, 2012 at 9:41 AM
- From the Kitchen said...
May I give you a challenge? One of coming up with madeleines with a crunchy cinnamon sugar topping? Marcel and I would be ever so appreciative!!
- March 1, 2012 at 9:46 AM
- Clint said...
The problem I have with your dialogue is that I believe you to be a paragon in all things culinary and I cannot accept that you did not perfectly achieve your goal of the perfect muffin.
- March 1, 2012 at 11:54 AM
- JG said...
Mary, these look delicious! If it tastes like a New England Snickerdoodle we'd enjoy them.
- March 1, 2012 at 5:41 PM
- Lynda said...
These are great looking muffins Mary, even if they didn't turn out like you hoped. I imagine they'll hit the spot with a cup of tea or coffe to go along. Thanks for sharing!
- March 1, 2012 at 6:04 PM
- Amalia said...
I agree, snickerdoodles aren't all that great. But these look way better! I think it's hard finding a good muffin recipe, they tend to be too dry and rubbery so these will definitely have to be the next muffins I try!
- March 1, 2012 at 7:32 PM
- The Harried Cook said...
These look great! I would be more than happy to polish off whatevers left on the plate - if there was anything left! looks way yummier than snickerdoodles! Being a HUGE nutmeg fan, I must mention that I love the addition of mace...
- March 1, 2012 at 9:05 PM
- Joanne said...
I can't believe you don't like snickerdoodles! I'm sure these muffins are delicious nonetheless...I'm a sucker for anything cinnamony.
- March 1, 2012 at 9:18 PM
- Red Nomad OZ said...
Marvellous!! Anything cinnamon works for me - now if only I could find someone to make them for me!!!!
Don't know if you're still interested in passing on a RED recipe + short i/v for my RED Alert series? Totally OK if not! Just askin'!!
- March 2, 2012 at 12:43 AM
- Hovkonditorn said...
Ohh, these sound so delicious! Have a great day!
- March 2, 2012 at 8:05 AM
- What's Baking?? said...
Determination always pay off, Mary! Nice looking muffin and I especially like the aroma of cinnamon in any bakes. Well done!
- March 2, 2012 at 8:26 AM
- Becki's Whole Life said...
I love the flavors in this muffin and I love the sugar topping.
I do love snickerdoodles, but only if they have cream of tartar in them.
- March 3, 2012 at 8:42 AM
- tenderb said...
Walnuts and cinnamon..perfect.
- March 4, 2012 at 6:39 PM


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Some men think they have right to tell woman, any and all women what to do and not do. This guy found out otherwise.
Planting time! A joyous time for me. Even though we have many varieties of iris, lilies, and roses, I like to fill pots with annuals and put them on the deck. I was enjoying my stroll through the just delivered plants at a local green house, and loading up on a variety of fresh plants when I noticed an older man in coveralls following me. I turned and looked at him, and he said, "You sure are spending a lot of money."
I had never seen this man, so he did not know me or my circumstances. I was instantly furious that he felt entitled to suggest what I purchased or spent!
I was raised to think and do for myself, and his presumption hooked me.
I snarled, "I do not smoke, drink, or gamble. I taught junior and senior high for 27 years! I earned the right to buy flowers with MY own money."
It seemed no woman had ever spoken to him in such a way. Even though he was considerably larger than I, his jaw dropped and he back up! Then he turned and went the other way.
My imagination conjured up a meek, submissive woman in his kitchen. My hunch is he bossed his wife around for 50+ years. He likely felt he had the right to control women, even a woman he did not know. I wonder if he is in the North Dakota legislature now, passing laws to restrict a woman's right to make her own decisons?