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- First Time Stories : Tim And Rose And Their New Friends
> Thankfully we were able to work out our problems. Our problems were not the kids and it wasn't the work. The problem was due to the kids and work we distanced ourselves from each other and forgot what was important. We figured all of this stuff out and soon found ourselves taking time for ourselves. We started making love again. We started heading out on the town and hitting fun nightclubs and doing the things couples are supposed to do in order to have a fun, healthy, loving relationship. During this time Rose became happier and happier with how she looked. She was losing weight and getting back to the size she had before kids. To me though she looked even hotter. She has a flat belly, side D breast that don't sag, and hips to die for. I call them breading hips. You know the kind I am talking about�. The kind of hips that truly define a woman. Sexy, just absolutely sexy. She has a great ass, and she is very pretty.
> When we had our date nights she would get dressed up and as time went on she would dress sexier and sexier. Now, at this point in the story you are probably telling yourself that this story is no different than 100's of other stories you have probably already read. To tell you the truth it probably isn't much different than many of the stories you have already read. There are a couple of things we are putting into this story and every story we post. First, they are all true, nothing fabricated. The names are not true but the events in the stories are 100% true. Second, these are our stories. They happened to us throughout our swinging lifestyle experience. You can believe them if you want to, or don't believe them if you don't want to. All we care about is that you enjoy them, find them interesting, and even help some get into the lifestyle if that is what you want to do. We live in the Kansas City area and if you are in the area traveling through or living here and want to meet send us an email and let us know (firstname.lastname@example.com).
> After a year or so of date nights we were definitely having fun. We were meeting people that enjoyed the same kind of clubs and soon we were friends with people we never thought we would be friends with. Our sex life got even better. We were fucking every day, sometimes two or three times a day. We starting talking about fantasies and this made our love life even more exciting. One of my biggest fantasies was group sex or sex with others. We would often fantasize about the people we were meeting at the various clubs. During this time period Rose started to dress even more provocative. Short mini-skirts and tight tops that revealed her beautiful breasts. She would even flash people from time to time. Every now and then Rose would dance very sexy with other guys and girls. I would do the same thing with the women I would dance with. We both approved of each other being forward with the people were out with. We didn't have any jealousy issues, in fact, the opposite were happening. We were both turned on watching when one of us was getting hit on openly flirting with someone else. All of this really added to our sex life at home.
> One summer weekend Rose and I headed out for a camping trip at a nearby lake. We are both avid boaters and absolutely love being out on the water every chance we get. All of these mid-western lakes (reservoirs) have their own party cove. Most are really nothing more than just a bunch of boaters that tie up to each other and drink beer all day long. This particular weekend was very nice. Not a cloud in the sky, about 90 degrees, and not even a little bit of a breeze.
> Rose and I got to our campsite early Saturday morning. We set up camp and then put the boat in the water. We did what we always do when we launch our boat. Rose backs the boat into the water and I sit in the boat and back it off the trailer. Rose then drives back to the campsite and boat around to the campsite. Let me back up for just a bit. This morning Rose was wearing her sexy swim suit. This looks amazing on her and shows her breasts wonderfully. At the time we were launching the boat she was wearing very short shorts over the suit bottoms. She had a very nice tan (no tan lines) and she was in a very good flirty mood.
> As I boated into the cove our campsite was in I noticed Rose was speaking to our new campsite neighbors. Rose was speaking to a very attractive blond woman who looked like she was in her mid-thirties or so and what I assumed was her husband or boyfriend. He was a tall guy, looked about the same age, and appeared to be in pretty good shape. I beached my boat and walked up. Rose introduced me to her new friends (Sarah and Chip). These two were very friendly and after chatting for a few minutes Chip said he needed to get their camp setup so the day can start. Rose announced she was going to mix up a batch of bloody Marys. We love Bloody Marys in the morning and usually drink just enough to start the buzz of the day.
> Chip went back to work with Sarah helping him. Soon we heard Chip get after Sarah for not doing something right and Sarah walked over to our campsite with her suit in hand and a big smile on her face. Sarah asked if she could use our tent to change into her suit of which, we said no problem. After a few minutes Sarah immerged from our tent wearing a very sexy suit. She was also wearing a pair of short over her bathing suit bottoms. Sarah was very pretty, and Rose and both looked at each other with this wow look. Sarah came over to us kind of giggling and said she always does that to Chip. She said she hates setting up the campsite getting all hot and sweaty. She continued by saying she usually does something to piss off Chip, with Chip always telling her to go sit and look pretty.
> We offered Sarah a bloody mary and she sat down and started chatting with us. I soon felt guilty watching Chip set up camp all by himself so I went over and helped him. After about thirty minutes Chip and Sarah's campsite was set up. Chip and I walked over to Rose and Sarah and joined in on the consumption of bloody marys. Chip and Sarah told us they camped almost every weekend in the summer. They said they have friends that come out and join them all the time. Chip said they provide the campsite and their friends provide the boats. I remember thinking to myself that Chips may provide the campsite but he is also providing the eye candy. Man, Sarah was a little hottie!
> Chip and Sarah's friends started coming in late morning. You could tell these guys were ready to party. They were all bringing coolers and ski's and was already half loaded when they arrived. Some of them were couples and some were not. Mostly, there were guys that we learned were college buddies of Chip's. Sarah and Rose continued to talk like girls will. The few women that arrived with the bunch joined Rose and Sarah and soon everyone was getting along like we were all long-time friends. Chips friends showed up with their boats. All of us ate a little lunch and started consuming beer (a Missouri lake weekend necessity). Today though, I was not thinking very well. I had a lot of distractions � mainly Rose and Sarah. The biggest distraction at this point though was the vodka in the bloody Mary's and now the beer I was drinking. I ate a little lunch like everyone else but I got caught up in the fun and didn't drink nearly enough water and should have eaten more food.
> Around one in the afternoon everyone decided it was time to head out on the lake and join the fun at the party cove on this lake. We all loaded up. Chip and Sarah did not ride with us because they wanted to do a little skiing before hitting the cove. Chip's buddies didn't have enough room in their boats for everyone and were short by about three people. We volunteered our boat for people to ride in. Our boat seats eight people very comfortably. So, Chips three friends and their coolers of beer were loaded up and off we went.
> After a very nice ten minute boat ride to the cove we tied up to some of the boats. We tied up to a large cruiser. We recognized this cruiser right away. We had tied up to them before. The couple that owns this boat is very nice, in their late 40's, and loved to party. They partied all day and night in their boat because it had a cuddy and they would just crash in their boat when they got tired. They were not the most attractive couple but, they are very nice and a bit on the wild side. Once were tied up Rose greeted this couple with a very friendly hello. Then she took off her shorts and was standing there with that beautiful suit on exposing that body I just love to look at. The guys in our boat were also staring and Rose just loved it. She was really starting to flirt with these guys and just having a fun time. About an hour later the other boats in our party arrived and tied up.
> Pretty soon we were all partying on the water like we were long time friends. The beer was flowing freely and everyone was having a great time. I noticed several of the guys flirting with Rose and paying a lot of attention to her. Rose and Sarah ended up floating on some of the floating lounge chairs. They were floating next to each other. It was fairly comical to watch all the guys from this group hanging around these two as they floated in the lake. All I know was it was sexy as hell watching them. By about five Chip came over to my boat and told me Sarah loves all the attention she gets from the guys that come to the campouts. He said they both really get off on it and have some amazing sex fantasizing about all the fun they could have while out with their friends. Now, Chip was pretty drunk by this point, and was too. As many if not all of you are fully aware of when drinking the truth serum (called beer) will allow one to say more than they should. At that point I told Chip that Rose and I fantasized about the same kind of stuff as well. About how wild our sex gets when we do this.
> Chip and I sat there and continued our conversation. At one point Chip told me he would love to see his wife fuck another guy or girl. At that point I told Chip I would love the same thing and I told him that Rose would love for the same thing to happen. Now, remember I am drunk. Rose has never told he should do something like that, we have openly fantasized about it (a lot) but never acted on it. Chip and I continued our conversation. As we were talking I was sprouting wood and I noticed that Chip was too. Soon Chip and I were very worked up and we both decided we needed to stop our conversation. We did stop and jumped in the lake. The water was refreshing and got rid of my hard on. I swam over to Rose and Sarah and when I arrived at their floating location I rested on Rose's lounge. At this time there were about four guys floating around Rose and Sarah. Rose and Sarah were both feeling no pain. Sarah had one of those floating coolers with her and the frozen margarita's had been flowing freely. Rose and Sarah both were being flirty with the guys and loving every minute of it. As I said earlier in the story Rose has a wonderful tan. Now that we were out in the sun she was wearing a bathing suit and I just happened to tell her she is probably getting a tan line. Without any hesitation Rose had her top off and those beautiful breasts were exposed to all. After seeing what Rose had done Sarah took her top off as well. Sarah had very nice breasts. They were smaller then Rose's but still very nice.
> I swam back to my boat and watched all that was going on. I was pretty lit at this point in the day. I sat in my boat and soon I kinda drifted off to sleep. At one point I remember seeing Chip in the cruiser next to my boat and he disappeared into their cuddy. I woke up to Rose shaking me and telling me everyone was ready to go. I was still pretty lit and told her I would not be able to drive the boat back to the campsite just yet. Rose said she was starting to get cold and would go back in the boat Chip and Sarah were riding in. I was handed some Gatorade, a couple of sandwiches, and bottles of water. One of the couples and a guy that rode out to the cove in a different boat stayed in my boat with me because there was not any room for them in the other boats. I watched as the other boats left. At this time it was about eight in the evening. There was about two hours of daylight left, which was plenty of time for me to get some food in my belly, hydrate, and sober up. I liked the couple and the guy that was in my boat with me. They were very nice and really were not ready to go back to camp anyway. They continued to swim while I ate and hydrated myself. I watched as the three of them swam up to the beach and sat on the beach. The next time I looked over I could not see the three of them. I didn't think anything of it. That beach has a nice picnic area, a bathroom, and an outdoor shower so people could get the sand and lake water off of them. I just figured they were taking care of some personal business.
> I was soon feeling much better, the world was not spinning any longer, and I was ready to head back. I got in the water and swam up to the beach. By this time it was almost dark. There was only two or three boats left in the cove and they were pretty far out away from shore. Once I got to the beach I remember thinking how nice it was to walk on the sandy little beach. I walked back to the bathroom/shower area and heard moaning. I started paying attention to how I walked and snuck up to the area I heard the moaning. When I got there I was able to see the female half of the couple being fucked from behind by the guy. Her husband was sitting on the table and she was sucking on his cock. Holy Fuck I thought to myself. I was actually seeing this woman getting fucked by someone other than her husband and sucking off her husband. It was awesome! I sat there and watched from a distance with a huge hard on. I didn't know what to do. My cock was telling me to get up there and get some the action but my brain said don't.
> I didn't want to piss off Rose. I started to wrestle with what was going on. This is something Rose and I had fantasized about but I had never received the green light to act on. I sat there and watched. Pretty soon I heard the guy friend announce he was going to cum. The female turned, took his cock in her mouth, suck him hard while jacking his cock. Pretty soon he came, and she swallowed all the cum. At least from my vantage point I could not see anything come out of her mouth. Her husband who had been jacking off after she turned announced he was going to cum and she turned to him and sucked his cock. Again, it looked like she swallowed every drop. It was really starting to get dark at this point and I could not see really well. I remember thinking since they are done they will probably be coming out soon. I softly headed back to the beach. Once I got back to the beach I made some splashing noise and made sure my location was known. I headed up to the bathroom area. At this point they were back in their swim suits. The female was in the outdoor shower washing off. The trio was very friendly with me. Told them I was ready to head back to camp if they were. The female said she was washing off here feet and would be done in just a second. I used the bathroom and we all headed back to the boat.
> Once in the boat we headed back to the campsite. It was dark so I took it slow, plus I was still just a bit buzzed. We got back to the camp about 11pm. I tied up the boat and walked up to the campsite. A couple of campfires were going. I walked over to Chip and Sarah's campsite to find Rose. Chip was sitting in a chair with some of his friends sitting around the fire. They all greeted me TIM like in the show Cheers with Norm only this time it was TIM. I sat down next to Chip and asked where Rose was? He said Sarah and Rose headed up to the camp showers a few minutes ago. He handed me a beer and invited me to stay and drink with the boys.
> About forty minutes later Rose and Sarah returned. They both were all giggly, holding hands, and acting like innocent school girls. Rose sat on my lap and gave me a big sexy kiss. She tasted like very sweet margarita. I asked her if she had been having fun. She got this big smile on her face, looked at Sarah and said oh yes. I thought to myself that was a strange response but not all out of place for my goofy wife. The night continued with more drinking and being silly. At around two in the morning Rose hit the drunken brick wall and I decided to take her back to the tent and fuck her silly.
> When Rose and I got into our tent we took our clothes off. I started feeling Rose all over her body. I was very worked up because of the things I had seen all day, especially at the end of the day. My finger went right to her pussy. Rose's pussy was soaking wet. Her thighs were wet. My fingers slipped easily into her pussy. Rose started to moan, and respond to my finger. As I was finger fucking her I asked her if she had fun today. She said oh yes, lots of fun. I told her I saw and heard her flirting with all the guys like a little slut. When I said slut she moaned out loud as I was fingering her. I asked her if she was my slut. She moaned again and said yes, I am your slut. I then asked her if she would be a slut with the people we are camping with. She responded by saying I am your slut. I then told her what I saw after everyone had left. I told her about the threesome I saw. She started moaning. I got on top of Rose and my cock slipped easily into her very wet cunt.
> As I fucked Rose I continued by asking her if she wanted another cock to play with. Rose stated yes, I want another cock to play with. I want to suck another cock. She said she wants to be the slut in the middle. I was so excited that I came quickly shooting my cum in her pussy. Rose and I fell asleep.
> The next morning I woke up as the son came up and heated our tent to 500 degrees in no time flat. Rose was lying naked. I remember thinking how beautiful she looked laying there naked with little beads of sweat forming on her chest. I got out of the tent and headed down to the lake. I got in the lake and cooled down. I was thinking to myself I got way too wasted yesterday, I hope I didn't do anything to piss someone off.
> After a few minutes Rose came down wearing her bathing suit. She had handed me a breakfast drink and sat down next to me. Rose asked me how I was doing? I said I was doing fine and I told her I hope I had not done anything while drunk to piss anyone off. Rose told me that I didn't piss anyone off. She continued by saying I was pretty funny and everyone had a great time. We kissed a little and I soon had a hard on. I asked her if she wanted to fuck. Rose said it was way too hot in the tent. It was still pretty early and we didn't see anyone so we walked over to our boat. Rose dropped her bottoms and placed my cock at the entrance to her pussy. I felt her pussy to make sure she was wet. Her pussy was still very wet. Rose looked back at me and said fuck my slut pussy! Just hearing her say that made my cock jump. I easily slid my cock in her very wet pussy. We fucked for what seemed like five minutes and I came in her pussy. We swam around in the lake for a few minutes and walked back up to camp.
> As the heat of the morning continued to rise people emerged from their tents. You could tell these people were hung over. Gotta say I was too. Chip and Sarah joined us at our campsite while breakfast was being cooked around the camp. Sarah looked fantastic. Rose joined us after running up to the bathrooms. Sarah gave Rose a big kiss as she sat down next to her. This was not ordinary kiss and I was intently watching as they passionately kissed each other. Then I started questioning what the hell happened yesterday?
> The three guys that rode out with us in our boat the day before and rode back with Rose, Sarah, Chip, and whoever was the owner of that boat came over to our site. One of the guys (Dave) walked over and gave Rose a big hug and kiss. While kissing her he was feeling her ass. Rose responded to his forwardness. What was going on?
> As the morning continued on the guys, Sarah, and Chip were much more forward with Rose and it appeared as though all of them were really much closer than people who met the day before, did some drinking with, flirting, and flashing. Around lunch time Rose and Sarah left together for the bathroom. I was very curious as to what was happening so a few minutes after they left I followed. The camp bathroom was the type where the ladies and men's restroom was separated by a common wall in the center. I went into the men's side and listened to whatever I could hear. I heard the two speaking to each other however, it was mumbled by the wall. At one point I thought I heard a moan but I could not be sure. My mind was racing with the thought of what was happening. I was putting everything together in my mind but, was I just being a worked up guy?
> I walked outside, by this time the two women had been in the bathroom for easily fifteen minutes. I waited outside for a few more minutes. No other women had gone in and no one had come out. So, I quickly walked into the women's restroom. The door was a loud door and the bathroom was quiet as could be when I walked in, except for water from a shower running. I walked back into the area where the showers were and I looked under the curtains. When I looked under the curtain to the last shower I saw the bottom half of a woman on her knees (on a towel). I could barely see that because it was a deep shower stall. It was a handicap accessible shower stall so it was deeper and wider than the others. I got closer to the ground so I could see deeper into the stall and that is when I could see all of Sarah, naked on her knees, with Rose sitting on a bench. All I could see of Rose was her naked spread eagle bottom half sitting on the bench with Sarah between her legs quietly eating her pussy.
> I stood up, not believing what I just saw. I cock instantly became hard as a rock. At this time I heard the main door to the bathroom open and two voices speaking to each other. I did not recognize the voices in fact one of the voices sounded like a little girl and a woman. Now I FREAKED OUT! I am going to jail. I reacted, and as fast as I could I walked past the curtain to the shower into the shower stall Rose and Sarah were in. Needless to say they were very shocked. I stood there with my finger to my mouth in an extreme expression for them not to say a word. They both just looked shocked as could be. All three of us froze in the position we were in. In a few minutes the two that had walked in finished what they needed to finish and walked out of the bathroom. Sarah and Rose stood up. Rose was now standing, looking at the ground, with a look on her face that told me she thought I was mad. I walked up to both of these two beautiful women and I whispered to them I want to know all the details of what happened yesterday. I am not mad, I am very turned on, very excited, and I want to know everything. Rose looked up with a big smile on her face.
> Sarah on the other hand was looking at the cock in my hand. I guess through all of this I was standing there with my shorts on but I was holding my hard cock through my shorts. Rose noticed the same thing. Rose was the first to undo my shorts and let my shorts fall to the floor. I was now standing in front of two beautiful women, in a public restroom, in the middle of the day. Rose looked at Sarah and said see, I told you he has a nice cock. I do have a fairly large cock. Not huge like some of the cocks you read about. But I am a solid eight inches, with a large girth, and a curve that a lot of women have told me is very nice.
> Before I knew it, both women were on their knees sucking and licking my cock. This was a very new experience for me. These two women were sucking and licking my cock all the while licking each other's tongues and French kissing with my cock in their mouths. Wow, it was an amazing site and feeling. This went on for a few more minutes and I announced I needed to fuck someone. Rose stood up looking at Sarah with a do you want to fuck him look on her face. Sarah got in front of me and bent over while holding on to the fixtures on the wall. I fingered her wet pussy while Rose stroked my cock. Sarah's pussy was very wet and it felt tight as well. As I moved to get into position it dawned on me that I was not wearing a condom and I didn't have a condom, and I didn't think it was the right thing to do. So I backed away from Sarah. That took every fiber in my being to do that. The girls looked at me with a questioned look on their faces. I told them I don't have a condom. Rose looked at me with a smile and said well, you're going to have to fuck me then. Rose bent over where Sarah had been. Sarah took hold of my cock and guided it into Rose's pussy. My cock slide easily into Rose's pussy. While I fucked Rose, Sarah played with my balls, Rose's clit, my asshole, and then stood up and kissed me passionately while I fucked Rose. This was all way too much. It was an erotic overload by all counts. I felt the orgasm coming from my toes. Rose started to cum as well. I soon emptied my load into Rose. It felt like I emptied a gallon of cum in Rose's pussy. I pulled out and Sarah sat on her butt below Rose and started licking her pussy. Rose responded by sitting on her face. I could see my cum coming out of Rose's pussy and Sarah licking it up. I finger fucked Sarah while she was eating my wife's pussy. This lasted a few minutes and then we were done. We went ahead and showered up and once the cost was clear we left the bathroom.
> So, what the fuck happened yesterday? I was not mad, I was the happiest, luckiest guy on the face of the earth. What did I have to be mad about? As Rose, Sarah and I walked back to camp Rose told Sarah that we (Rose and I) were going to head out on the lake by ourselves for just a little while. Sarah said, not a problem, completely understand.
> Rose and I headed out on our boat. We went back to the cove we were in the previous day and anchored out a ways from the boats already there. We were a good 300 yards away from everyone else. Once anchored Rose told me the story:
> Rose told me that while still in the camp yesterday Sarah was really coming on to her and flirted heavily. When the guys were off doing the guy stuff and Sarah and I were able to spend a lot of time just sitting and talking about girl stuff. The conversation went in a lot of different directions, work, families, kids, other women, the women that were coming to the campout, and then to sex. This is when Sarah started talking very openly about the open lifestyle Chip and Sarah lead. She also started talking about the openness of all the people coming camping with them. Remember the girls were drinking Bloody Mary's all morning, beer in the afternoon, leading to margaritas in the late afternoon.
> Rose continued the story: Once out on the water and floating in the lounge chairs the guys started really hitting on them. The girls started teasing with the guys. She said that at one point Sarah had reached over and played with her nipples and slipping a finger onto her pussy, of which all the guys around them saw and soon became part of the flirting with the guys. Rose said she looked over to get my attention but I was standing on our boat talking with Chip for a long time and was not paying attention to what was going on out on the water. When I finally joined them they decided to start messing with me and that is when they took off their swim suit tops. Rose then said she could tell I had a lot to drink and told Sarah to stop teasing me because I needed to be in the boat and not in the water. Sarah understood this because she was worried I was in the water as well because I was pretty drunk. This is when I went back to the boat and took my nap.
> What I didn't see happen was Sarah and Rose ended up taking everything off while floating out on the water. The guys loved it and started playing with the girls. Rose said guys were trying to finger fuck her and played with her breasts. She said all of this turned her on in a huge way. It was everything we had fantasized about for such a long time. It became very apparent Sarah was turned on in a huge was as well. This is when I kind of woke up and saw Chip head into the cuddy cabin of the boat next to us. Turns out Chip and Sarah were close friends with this couple and Chip along with another guy fucked the woman who was in this boat when we first pulled up. Rose said she looked at Sarah and said she wanted to be sexually free and do that stuff as well. Sarah told Rose at that point that she would love to include both of us in the fun if we wanted too. Rose told Sarah that we wanted to.
> Sarah and Rose swam up to our boat, saw that I was asleep, and tried to wake us up. Rose said I was out, very out, and would not wake up to their efforts (mental note, don't drink so much when out with very sexy people). They made sure I was okay and covered up so I would not get burned. Rose then told Sarah that she should not do anything because I would not be joining in. Sarah then told Rose that if I was like Chip I would want her to do anything she wanted to as long as I was told everything afterwards. Sarah was very correct in that assumption too. As Rose told me about this I was hard as a rock and could not have been happier. Rose continued to tell me that she and Sarah crossed over to the big boat we were tied up to. They could not fit into the cuddy because the woman was in there with three other guys (Chip, Chip's friend, and the woman's husband). Rose and Sarah watched what was going on inside the cuddy. While doing this Sarah started playing with Rose's pussy. Rose said she came very quickly with her pussy being played with and watching the mini-gang bang in the cuddy. Soon, some of the other guys got on this boat and started watching what was going on. Soon after that Sarah realized this boat was getting a lot of attention by the other boaters and became concerned someone would call the Water Patrol.
> This is the point where Sarah pulled Chip out of the gang bang and told him they should be going. Chip looked at me and saw that I was passed out and asked What about Tim? Sarah looked at Rose and said what about Tim? Before Rose could respond one of the guys on the boat behind them said he would stay because one of the couples wants to fuck outside on the beach and we won't be able to do that until later when people and boaters leave. Rose was good with this and decided to go with Chip and Sarah.
> Rose, Chip, Sarah, got into the boat of one of their friends. Two other guys joined them on their boat as well. Rose said they motored out onto the lake and then turned into a private cove. Once in the cove Sarah stood up took off her bathing suit. Chip sat next to Rose and helped Rose out of her suit. Once everyone was naked Rose said she reached out and felt naked people all over the place. She soon found herself sucking on Chips cock while someone played with her pussy. She said her position was not good and placed a towel on the floor, got on her knees and continued sucking on Chips thick cock. A few minutes later she felt a cock entering her pussy from behind. She didn't know who it was but the cock felt good. She looked behind her and saw Chip's friend fucking her. After a few minutes she felt Sarah beside her, getting on her knees while one of the guys sat next to Chip. She started sucking on Chip's friend and the owner of the boat started fucking Sarah from behind. Rose said she was experiencing orgasm after orgasm.
> The sexual adventures continued for over an hour. She said that between her and Sarah they sucked and fucked all of the guys on the boat. This is when I asked about condoms. Rose said the guys wore condoms when they fucked her. But, she said they didn't wear condoms when she sucked their cocks. She also said two of the guys came in her mouth and she swallowed every bit of their cum. She said the last time Chip fucked Sarah he didn't use a condom and came in Sarah's pussy. Rose said she ate Sarah's pussy and sucked and licked out as much cum as she could. Rose then informed me she loved cum now more than ever.
> Rose came to the end of the details of what happened on the boat. She said after they had rested for a bit they headed back to the camp. She said nothing happened at the camp until her and Sarah went to the bathroom to take a shower. She said her and Sarah fucked each other in the shower for a while and then came back to camp. This is when I had returned from my little adventure. This is when I told Rose what I had experienced. I told her I watched and didn't do anything. Rose then said if something like that happens again I have her permission to join in and have fun if invited.
> At this point I was so turned on that Rose and I fucked in the boat right out in the middle of the lake. Of course, as excited as I was it didn't take long for me to cum. Rose said her pussy was very sore after being fucked so much in the past twenty four hours. When we returned to the camp people were breaking down their camps and getting ready to leave. Sarah and Chip came up to us and we kind of giggled a bit about the situation. Chip said dude, remember, and drink in moderation so you don't miss anything. Great, thanks for the advice.
> This was our first experience in the lifestyle. Chip and Sarah invited us to come out and join them camping anytime. We exchanged email addresses and phone numbers. Turns out Chip and Sarah organize a campout like this with their friends once a month as soon as the weather turns warm until it gets cold again. Then in the winter they have parties at their cabin in Northern Missouri. We have been a regular at these parties since we met them. Chip and Sarah are very close friends of ours. We do stuff all the time together � adult sex stuff and the non sex stuff.
> If you are feeling bad for me because I didn't get any pussy on this trip, don't. Believe me I have made up for it tenfold. My wife Rose is a true doll and I love her to death. We have a great marriage. We completely balance our lifestyle life with our family and work life. This lifestyle does not consume us at all. But, I can proudly say I have a slut wife, and she is proud of that too.


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NEW YORK — "Dear Mr. Lowell, I don't know how to get in touch with you now that Randall is away but I should think this would reach you through Harcourt Brace. I just wanted to say…."
Three years ago, pregnant with twins and ordered to bed rest, playwright Sarah Ruhl got a present from a friend: "Words in Air," the collected correspondence of poets Elizabeth Bishop and Robert Lowell. It is a behemoth of a book, three decades of epistolary conversation packed into 875 pages, beginning in 1947 with Bishop's slightly tentative overture and lasting until Lowell's death in 1977, when he was stricken with a heart attack in a New York City cab.
Ruhl, a 2006 MacArthur fellow, had had grand ambitions for her forced repose: learning Greek, tackling Proust. But in need of soothing distraction, she found herself able to read only "Twilight," at one end of the literary spectrum, and "Words in Air," at the other.
"I couldn't focus on much — it was a really difficult pregnancy — and this book I found to be a complete page turner," Ruhl said the other afternoon at a cafe in Brooklyn Heights, near the home she shares with her husband and three children. "And I wasn't sure why, because it's not plot-driven. But I couldn't stop reading it. I couldn't put it down. And I thought, oh, I would love to hear this out loud. And that was sort of the first thought: like, what wonderful oral material. And then the second thought was, well, maybe it's a play."
Signs point to yes. Performances of "Dear Elizabeth," Ruhl's adaptation of the letters, begin Friday at Yale Repertory Theatre, where the piece is making its world premiere. Directed by frequent Ruhl collaborator Les Waters, it stars Tony Award winner Jefferson Mays ("I Am My Own Wife") as Boston native Lowell and Mary Beth Fisher as the Worcester-born Bishop.
"I still don't know that it does seem like a play, to be totally candid with you. Maybe I shouldn't say that in an interview. But in a way that's what I love about the project," said Ruhl, whose acclaimed work includes "In the Next Room (or the vibrator play)," "The Clean House," and "Eurydice." "Whenever I start a play, I feel like if you're really honest with yourself, you have to ask that question: Is this a play?"
"Dear Elizabeth: I find that every day I less like writing letters and more like getting them; it's the same with poems. I.e. I am waiting for them to come in dreams…."
The words Bishop and Lowell utter in "Dear Elizabeth" are entirely from their letters, and they speak them mainly to the audience, narrating their own lives. Moments of wordless action come in the interstices.
On the surface, the play has more in common with "Dear Liar," based on the correspondence of George Bernard Shaw and Mrs. Patrick Campbell, and with A.R. Gurney's fictional "Love Letters" than with any of Ruhl's other plays. But "Eurydice," which Waters directed at Yale Rep, at Berkeley Repertory Theatre, and off-Broadway, also makes use of letters: the missives Orpheus sends into the Underworld.
"There is something about the two that is rather similar," Waters said by phone. "They have a kind of emotional quality that is similar, of people trying to stay in touch with each other: that yearning to be in touch with someone who is gone from your life."
Of course, in "Eurydice," Ruhl had the freedom to invent dialogue. Here the task is to take words meant for the page and have them spoken aloud — so it helps, Ruhl said, that poets wrote them.
"Robert Lowell, in his prose, often is writing in iambic pentameter," she said. "If you scan the letters, you're like, oh my God, he couldn't help himself: There's another one, there's another one, there's another one! So in some ways it rolls off the tongue."
After Ruhl began "Dear Elizabeth," she often dreamed of Lowell. "He was very kind in my dreams," she said. But she never dreamed of Bishop — maybe, she speculated, because she had admired Bishop's work since high school.
She'd been less drawn to Lowell's confessionalism. "But when I read his letters, I just fell in love with him," she said. "I just felt like the man was so generous, so brilliant, and something about these two minds overlapping was incandescent to me. And I thought, they couldn't have written these particular letters to anyone else."
"Dearest Elizabeth: I feel rather creepy and paltry writing now to announce that I am all healed and stable again. So it is. Five attacks in ten years make you feel rather a basket-case…."
Human beings live messy lives, and Bishop and Lowell lived theirs in the public eye. But Ruhl said she didn't want her play to concentrate on "the more salacious details" of their biographies.
"I didn't want that to be the theater of it. We know that she was an alcoholic. We know that he had manic depression," Ruhl said. "I was interested in their letters and their relationship and their language. And really, what's moving to me about the letters is that they presented their best selves to each other and that they were allowed to do that. . . . They had the chance to write themselves as really honorable in the letters, so you don't hear about Lowell punching his wife, and you don't hear about Bishop scrounging around in the bathroom for rubbing alcohol when all the alcohol was locked up. You just hear, 'Oh, I had a rough patch.' So it's recollected in a moment of calm."
Or, as Bishop wrote to Lowell in 1963: "I have some wonderful anecdotes when I can get them sorted out of the nightmare parts."
But calm, Ruhl noted, is inherently anti-theatrical. And while she wanted to explore in the play "the ways in which they loved each other, the kind of odd friendship that they had," she sees friendship, too, as dramatically problematic.
"It is what makes us human to a degree, and I feel like we don't talk about it much in literature because we don't know how to tell the story of it somehow," she said. "We're so obsessed with romantic love. We've got the buddy movie, but real friendship between a man and a woman? Where do we see that?"
Ruhl is teaching at Yale this year, and she has plenty of work in the pipeline beyond "Dear Elizabeth." But she's also trying to take it a little easy.
"With this project, it was so hard to find the time," she said. "Last year, they were sick all the time, my whole family. We just were recycling illness. Nothing serious, but someone was vomiting, someone had a fever, someone had a lazy eye, someone had celiac disease. I literally thought my full-time job was going to the pediatrician. They would just laugh at me when they saw me."
About a year ago, her "Dear Elizabeth" deadline glaring, she didn't know where she would get the focus to complete the first draft.
"My husband said, 'OK, go away for three days for your birthday and finish this,'" she said. "So I drove to the Berkshires for three days and I finished it in two days, and on the third day he called me and said, 'Everyone's vomiting.' "Laura Collins-Hughes can be reached
at email@example.com.

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Rains bring floods to NCR, provinces
Under Memorandum Circular 33-A, Executive Secretary Paquito Ochoa has ordered the cancellation of work in private offices in the National Capital Region, Zambales, Bataan, Pampanga, Pangasinan, Tarlac, Laguna, Cavite, Rizal and Bulacan due to the harsh weather (August 7).
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A young mountain lion made an evening appearance on one of Boulder's remote wildlife cameras on Mount Sanitas earlier this week.
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Topic: D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill) (Read 8270 times)
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D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
May 05, 2004, 09:30:50 AM »
Quote from: Ron Edwards
All three represent a brief correspondence of role-playing material with a wave of "teen craze" purchasing. That's distinct from fan purchasing or anything else associated with SF or pop subculture - it literally means a ton of people who are buying the game as
It doesn't last long (although it makes a huge impression on retailer re-ordering habits that does last), and I think it's best viewed as a lucky draw rather than a reliable tactic that can be generalized across publishing in general.
How would you categorize D&D 3e's sales in that light? The numbers I have unearthed put the 3e PHB at between 700,000 and 800,000 books sold. You can tack on about 300,000 to 400,000 DMGs, and 200,000 to 300,000 MMs. My impression is that 3.5 has done very well for WotC, though I haven't yet tried to wrangle any information about it. I've seen sales numbers for d20 books released in the past year that the big SF publishers would be happy to see for a hardcover release.
The problem with this thinking is that it assumes that all the active participants in the three tier chain have any useful, actionable institutional memory from those time periods. I would also argue that Erick's experiences directly counter the idea of a fad - as soon as TMNT was on TV, its audience dried up. Where are all the kids who were watching the TV show, buying the action figures, and going to the movies?
(As an aside, I found that an interesting development - my own game group at the time went through the exact same thing when TMNT went from a B&W comic to a crappy TV show.)
Furthermore, most of those sales would have take place outside of the hobby/game store channel. In the early 80s, TSR had D&D books in department stores, toy stores, and other venues that are no longer open markets. This might change with the new D&D starter set due out in September.
Now, I think the basic thought still stands - those aren't levels of success that a publisher can count on. But in at least one case - D&D - you have players and buyers on an order of magnitude greater than anything else in the business. Even Vampire managed to out sell D&D for exactly one month, and that was when TSR had stopped printing and selling books.
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My name is Raven.
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #1 on:
May 05, 2004, 09:41:47 AM »
Heya Mike,
Quote from: mearls
My impression is that 3.5 has done very well for WotC
That's quite the opposite of what I've heard through the grapevine: while 3E sold well for WotC, 3.5 itself ended up being a money-sink for the company (for various reasons -- including that the rules were simply an update of the core, rather than a new version, and came out too soon after the most recent release (especially given what they were)).
Unfortunately, that's at "rumor" status right now; I'd have to go ask questions for an accurate report. However, I do know and can report you are the first person I myself have heard say the 3.5 update sold well, which everyone can take to mean as they will.
Anyone have any accurate and supported information?
Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
Posts: 46
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #2 on:
May 05, 2004, 10:05:00 AM »
Quote from: greyorm
Anyone have any accurate and supported information?
I've talked to a few retailers. For instance, the local store here in Boston sold nearly 200 copies of the 3.5 PHB from its time of release to the end of the year. The 3.5 books were also consistently atop every retailer-supplied best seller list I've seen.
I was planning on doing some more research into this over the summer. My personal theory is that 3.5 did fine, and that many of the problems facing d20 publishers are self-generated. (The common rumor I see is that 3.5 has killed D&D sales and wrecked the d20 market - I haven't seen that supported with hard numbers.)
I have seen people claim that 3.5 did poorly, but I haven't heard that from anyone who was reliable or didn't have an axe to grind.
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Ron Edwards
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D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #3 on:
May 05, 2004, 10:13:43 AM »
Hi Mike,
You addressed the 3.5 question to a point of mine, so here's my take, or at least a minor hypothesis.
I think all the D&D3E and 3.5 sales are great sales for a role-playing game, in the scope of role-playing sales, albeit the top end. But I don't think they are the same phenomenon as the "fad buy" events. I think instead that TSR reached very effectively into its target markets of (a) old-school old guys with their shelves and shelves of late-70s stuff and (b) the bright pubescents who now had a "game of their own" with art and iconography much like other things they're used to.
To address the TMNT "gear buy" event, that's a good question. No one really knows how fads work and what aspects of them rise and fall in relation to others. It so happens that I think that TV, action figures, and movies beat the shit out of other gear, most especially an RPG, especially for the age group in question. But I don't claim that's
answer, or
Posts: 46
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #4 on:
May 05, 2004, 10:41:36 AM »
Quote from: Ron Edwards
To address the TMNT "gear buy" event, that's a good question. No one really knows how fads work and what aspects of them rise and fall in relation to others. It so happens that I think that TV, action figures, and movies beat the shit out of other gear, most especially an RPG, especially for the age group in question. But I don't claim that's
answer, or
I have my own theory about the sales pattern Erick described - RPGs probably tend to appeal to people who want a more interactive experience. A TV show or movie is the exact opposite of that. So you have a situation where the kids watching the show had no real desire to pick up the RPG. Compounding things, the exact sort of people who would in interested in black and white, indie comic are also the same people who would be repulsed by the typical, brain dead kiddie fare that the TMNT show offered. By the same token, I think a lot of the D&D merchandising worked against the game, rather than for it, helping to kill off the first wave of D&D's popularity.
I definitely agree with the idea that D&D 3 managed to capture the grognards and the younger players. What's fascinating, and something that I think should give everyone reason to have hope in pushing the RPG envelope - is that the game was so well received even though it re-wrote major parts of the rules. I think people are really hungry for stuff that makes their games more fun.
I think that right now, D&D faces some interesting tests. WotC has put a lot of backing behind Eberron, the new setting that's due out next month. I think that's one of the pitfalls of the treadmill - you can only offer up so many duds before people start turning away from buying a game. Non-core RPG books are the ultimate luxury item. There's is very, very little compelling need for them once you have a corebook and the skills needed to make your own content. (Aside: I think that's what's killing many d20 publishers. They're making stuff that gamers don't need, because they can put it together themselves without much effort.)
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Matt Snyder
Posts: 1380
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #5 on:
May 05, 2004, 10:50:52 AM »
Interesting, Mike. That begs a question in my mind. What do d20 gamers
? For that matter, what do gamers need?
I mean, besides a job and a shower and a girlfriend and all that stuff real people really need. I'm not interested to hear from anyone that "no one
any gaming material, it's a hobby, yadda yadda." Yes, I get that.
What I'm asking is what a marketer would ask himself of the market. What market need can my resources provide?
I'd be curious to hear what everyone thinks, especially those already participating in this thread. However, perhaps that't another topic? Ron?
Matt Snyder
"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
Posts: 46
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #6 on:
May 05, 2004, 11:13:05 AM »
Quote from: Matt Snyder
Interesting, Mike. That begs a question in my mind. What do d20 gamers
? For that matter, what do gamers need?
I think that deserves its own thread. My impression its that we're talking more about a more global assessment of supplements as part of a game line, rather than what an individual supplement could/should be.
I'll go ahead and start one.
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D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #7 on:
May 05, 2004, 12:07:40 PM »
Quote from: Matt Snyder
Interesting, Mike. That begs a question in my mind. What do d20 gamers
? For that matter, what do gamers need?
I see the sub-thread has been put into it's own thread. Thanks.
Moving along:
I think this cuts to the heart of a lot of activity in the mainstream RPG publishing business, but I think it can be a useful thing to consider for indie designers and publishers. I can't address it from the indie perspective, but I can talk about from a d20 one.
A game designer has one valuable asset he can offer: his time and mastery of a game. I'm paid to spend 40+ hours a week thinking about D&D and d20. I have the resources needed to not only write new game rules, but to research how they fit into the existing body of material, and to ensure that they work properly. Few gamers can claim that. Between work, school, and their other interests, they don't have the time to pay as much attention to all the details needed for a system as intricate as d20.
Even if you do this on the side, you've commited more time to design than the typical gamer.
The problem lies in figuring out how to take that advantage and build something useful off of it. The knee jerk reaction amongst publishers is to produce two basic threads of material:
1. Prestige classes, feats, and spells
2. Setting material
I think the problem here is that in both cases, this is the easy stuff in game d20 design. A lot of DMs, particularly the experienced ones who know about d20 stuff and are willing to buy it, can do that already.
So I think in the first place, you need to figure out what sort of material is difficult for the typical DM to create.
Second, you need to look at what you're thinking of designing and decide if it can have a positive impact on a game. In short, does it reward the person who paid the money for it and took the time to read it with a better game? This is the key question - how does my book make a D&D game more fun? This is the question that either never gets answered or has an essentially value-less answer ("It's cool, so people should like it.")
To answer the first question, it helps to look at all the exceptions based parts of a system. The fewer guidelines that exist for making something new, the harder it is for a DM to do it himself. Feats and prestige classes are a bit of an exception to this, because they are small, self-contained, and have appeared so many times that in most cases you're retreading old ground with one. In addition, I've found that DMs are less likely to trust ones made by third parties.
The second question can only be answered through actual play. Not just your play, but how other people use the d20 system. It's very instructive to read between the lines of forum posting - what are people complaining about? What are the problems that come up again and again?
This is the most important litmus test: given that you engage in actual play (and if you don't you have bigger problems to worry about), do YOU use the supplementary material you've developed? That's such a critical issue. If it isn't compelling enough for you to add to your game, don't expect others to adopt it.
I can't give any specific examples right now, but in a month (when my current project is announced) I can do that. The book I'm writing right now has radically changed how I view supplement development for d20, and I think it might be the kind of book that opens up an entire new design space in d20.
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D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #8 on:
May 05, 2004, 01:41:48 PM »
Fantastic, Mike. Thanks for sharing that info; good, thoughtful stuff there, as ever.
I'd love to hear what others (or Mike for that matter -- he's right a helluva lot more often than he's wrong) have to say about supplemental material for
games, especially indie games. But, clearly, that's for yet another thread, since this one's labelled for D&D specifically.
Matt Snyder
"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
J�rgen Mayer
Posts: 240
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #9 on:
May 05, 2004, 02:43:00 PM »
Quote from: mearls
Furthermore, most of those sales would have take place outside of the hobby/game store channel. In the early 80s, TSR had D&D books in department stores, toy stores, and other venues that are no longer open markets. This might change with the new D&D starter set due out in September.
Slightly off-topic, but maybe interesting: the german D&D 3E is sold in boxes, so that non-hobby stores will sell it in their (board-)game section. There's just the translated book in a box, nothing else. Player's Guide in a box. GM Guide in a box.
Posts: 1183
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #10 on:
May 06, 2004, 06:15:22 AM »
Quote from: mearls
So I think in the first place, you need to figure out what sort of material is difficult for the typical DM to create.
I don't have much to add by I can tell you what the answer was for
when I was running D&D:
* fully-statted NPCs that can be put into my campaign
* balanced encounters and treasure for same
* balanced encounters that could be solved by talking rather than fighting or skill use
Creating NPCs is THE most time-consuming thing in D&D 3.x, yet very little work has been done in terms of making it easier or quicker. I'd kill for something like what's in the DMG, but quicker yet more flexible.
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D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #11 on:
May 06, 2004, 06:51:34 AM »
Quote from: xiombarg
* balanced encounters that could be solved by talking rather than fighting or skill use
I'm with Kirt, right up to this one.
I want more encounters that could be solved with skill-use, and less with talking and "role-playing" (blah). Hence, encounters that give you "A Gather Information check rolled when talking to this NPC will reveal the following information: (roll result) (info)" and "An Intimidate check rolled when talking to this NPC will cause him to: (roll result) (behavior)" are what I'd like to see.
So, more use of the social skills, and more use of the reaction charts, more
...both are usually and sadly overlooked in published material, with the focus being on somehow "role-playing" through all such encounters rather than using the mechanics created for such situations.
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Alex Johnson
Posts: 34
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #12 on:
May 26, 2004, 06:47:20 AM »
Quote from: xiombarg
I can tell you what the answer was for
when I was running D&D:
* fully-statted NPCs that can be put into my campaign
* balanced encounters and treasure for same
* balanced encounters that could be solved by talking rather than fighting or skill use
Creating NPCs is THE most time-consuming thing in D&D 3.x, yet very little work has been done in terms of making it easier or quicker.
I'm 100% with xiombarg here. 3E NPCs are the most time consuming thing I've ever seen in an RPG. There is nothing out there to help with creating them. And there are few suggestions for encounters that can be solved in any way other than fighting.
Posts: 152
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #13 on:
May 27, 2004, 10:56:41 AM »
I've tried to design a number of the ideas in this thread into the Masters and Minions horde books and the
online tools that support them. Thanks to everyone for the insight!
: The print version will have one complete NPC for each monster (with stat blocks, appropriately-valued equipment, spell selections, character background and motivation, and roleplaying tips). Online, we'll be developing an open database that has all these NPCs plus more contributed by users & the community; you can search the database for NPCs of a certain creature type/race, challenge rating, alignment, etc. and output the modifiable source code for the statblocks etc. that you need for your game. Eventually the database will also include tools to make designing & entering your own NPCs easier.
Encouraging use of social skills
: Each monster has a custom matrix which cross-indexes the skills relevant to that creature with its current attitude to yield a specific DC. Subsumed in this matrix are existing rules (Charisma based reaction checks, the added difficulty of using Handle Animal on a magical beast) along with some unique ones: it's possible to use Appraise to get on the good side of an ashmalkin by recognizing what its body-jewelry display indicates about its social status in its nation, but it's much more likely to succeed if the ashmalkin's attitude is neutral or better. JoT's
love letter
to the Chainmail combat matrix was a big influence on the design of this matrix!
Balanced encounters and treasures
: Using a summary table in the print edition, or a Vorpal online generator linked to the NPC database, you can specify a type of encounter (a minotrice hunting pack, for example) and the desired encounter level, and it'll give you a rounded group of monsters as well as the appropriate XP and treasure award. We're also working on a calculator that works bottom-up instead of top down: click on the monsters you want and it'll add up their EL/XP/treasure and assess what kind of challenge that would be for a given party.
Re: Mike's post about what's easy to do (and what everyone's doing as a result), the Horde Books have no setting material; they're designed to offer possibilities for any campaign that uses the core monsters. We're guilty of the occasional feat and spell as a way to suggest how one of the horde creatures can be integrated into the game. BTW, Mike, when can you hint about your new release? Sounds mighty cool!
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Posts: 22
D&D specifically (split from Supplement Treadmill)
Reply #14 on:
June 01, 2004, 09:15:41 AM »
Quote from: greyorm
Heya Mike,
Quote from: mearls
My impression is that 3.5 has done very well for WotC
That's quite the opposite of what I've heard through the grapevine
The grapevine you're tapped into doesn't appear to know what it is talking about.
WotC spent a pittance to make 3.5. Most of the design work had already been paid for via other products. To make 3.5 required a year's work from a talented developer to consolidate all the errata and integrate material from other sourcebooks, maybe a few months of design time to test things like the changes to the DR rules, and the new P-Classes, and a few months of playtesting to debug the results. Add some art, new covers, and some marketing, and you've got a 3.5 project budget. I'd estimate the 3.5 project costs to be less than $250K.
Those books are sold at $30SRP. WotC gets about half of that, depending on the channel of distribution. For the sake of argument, say WotC gets 47.5% of SRP.
Minimum, and I mean "MINIMUM", they sold 100,000 units of each of the 3.5 books in 2003. (You could knock me over with a feather if they only sold 100,000 units, but we're constructing a hypothetical here.) They'll probably sell another 100,000 copies in 2004. For this examination, let's just focus on 2003.
100,000 units x3 volumes x $30SRP x 47.5% == $4,275,000. The books themselves probably cost about $5 to manufacture and $1 to ship ($6 x 3 volumes x 100,000 units == $1,800,000). Gross profit to WotC for 3.5 is therefore something like $2,225,000.
Is it likely that 3.5 books will sell better in 2004 than the 3.0 books would have? My answer is "yes". 3.5 is a better product than 3.0. It will, over time, outsell 3.0, in my opinion. I can't imagine anyone inside WotC feeling that 3.5 was anything other than a home run. In fact, I bet they wish they could figure out how to do it every other year or so, just like Magic does.
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Welcome to the Winter Bazaar, this is the last week for the Bazaar this year but don't let that stop you from joining in next week. In January I'll be posting general activities for kids, New Year's tips, some fun games I've found, all kinds of things to help deep, dark January be more fun. Have you got a fun family game? An easy kid-helper recipe? Ideas for helping with New Year's resolutions? Fun activities for winter play? I can use all the help I can get!
Next make other cuts in the dough, being careful not to pull the dough apart or separate the pieces, then let them paint the tops of the pieces with some beaten egg whites colored with food coloring to make the pieces pretty. Bake the cookie according to the package directions and when it comes out of the oven let it cool before you take it off the pan and separate the pieces.
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text:
Imagine having the power to make molecules that never existed before you drew up the plans, broke down and re-constituted bonds. And your ultimate goal is to have these molecules become self-assembling structures that will grow into a machine. Now that's chemistry at The University of Texas at Dallas [UTD]!
At least it is according to Greg Hundt, a fourth-year doctoral candidate with one year left.
"We make large hoop-shaped structures [called Wurster's Crowns] on a molecular scale in the Sibert lab. They can capture organic guests inside them. Essentially, if you had a straight rod threaded through a wheel, that is the sort of mental image of what I'm talking about. This aggregate is called a pseudorotaxane with the Wurster's Crown providing the wheel-type structure.
"The catenane would be two hoop structures linked together like links in a chain. And then you control how these assemble – you put both of them free into a solution and they will form aggregate structures all by themselves. We can actually control how they assemble using electrochemistry – when you put in or remove electrons from the system, you can induce movement in these molecules relative to one another.
"On the grand scheme the big idea is people want to take these kinds of structures and do things with them. One, they want to make, or they think they can be the basis for, molecular-level machines. People are really trying to do this kind of thing, you know, they're nanotech or nano-scale machines. You can store binary information at the molecular level through these kinds of systems," Greg said.
These guests are ionic and organic molecular materials, such as paraquat, he said.
Molecular-level machines
Wait a minute! Did he just say molecular-level machines? Scenes from a science fiction movie pop into mind. Where did this guy come from?
"I was born in Dallas. I was an undergraduate at Austin College, in Sherman, Texas, about an hour north of here, and I did research and published a paper there as an undergraduate. And so it was very easy for me to just come down and check out the UTD campus. I guess that's part of what helped me come here, was that it was so easy geographically for me to come down and look," he said.
Greg said he liked the industrial aspects of UTD's chemistry program.
"If you look, the ACS [American Chemical Society] says that most chemists end up working for industry, so I thought that this would afford me an opportunity to go work for companies and things before I got my degree. And that is, in fact, what I have done. I left the department for a year and went on an internship and worked for Dow Chemical for a year and came back. And so it's that kind of experience that other chemistry programs can't give that I thought was so attractive about UTD," Greg said.
The Sibert lab
Greg is a research assistant in the laboratory of Assistant Professor John Sibert, Ph.D. Sibert's research program centers on the synthesis and coordination chemistry of novel classes of macrocyclic receptors with applications that range from catalysis to medicine to materials science.
"I've been doing research in the Sibert lab since I began at UTD. Except for the time I was away for my internship, I've worked in there both for my master's work and now for my Ph.D. work," Greg said.
But enough of Greg's background information. Let's go back to the goals of the research.
"It's synthetic chemistry. I make new molecules that haven't been made before and then we study their properties.
"Specifically, we want to see whether we can sense guests captured by our molecules. They are sort of elaborate molecular sensors, in a way. We use electrochemistry — CV [cyclic voltammetry] — and UV-Vis [ultraviolet-visible] instrumentation to study the way these molecules capture other ions and molecules in solution," Greg said.
Cyclic Voltammetry and UV-Vis spectroscopy
Ultraviolet-Visible Spectroscopy, an analytical tool to determine organic structures, irradiates a compound with light of a particular wavelength. If the compound absorbs the light, the detector will record the amount of absorbance. By contrast, cyclic voltammetry measures the transfer of electrons during an oxidation-reduction [redox] reaction. Both are tools Greg and members of the Sibert lab – manipulators of the Wurster crowns – depend on to do their work.
"These molecules are designed to capture things within them. We can examine that capture through a variety of different ways. And cyclic voltammetry tells us how easily or how difficult the compound is to oxidize, or to remove electrons from. Once we capture guests, they all turn out to be harder to oxidize or remove electrons from the system, until recently, when we experienced that sometimes the opposite may also happen. But we can study that by CV and that gives us information about how tightly the guest is captured and the affinity that our molecules have for their guests.
"So essentially, it allows us to see what type of light is absorbed by molecules over time," Greg said. "It also allows us very quickly to see whether or not we've been successful in designing molecules because I take it all the way from paper – drawing out exactly what we want to make – and so, in that process, you have to just ask yourself, 'What kind of properties are desirable in the end' and 'What do I need the molecule to be like?' "
Breaking the law?
Greg continued, "We take it all the way from its inception on paper, through making it and then studying final properties. It's, in fact, pretty gratifying to know whether or not your initial idea way back a year ago actually turns out to be useful or bunk."
"It's the way you arrange the matter that's important," Greg said, matter-of-factly. "Of course, we can't create atoms or entirely new material but we can organize it in different ways, and that's really the job of a synthetic chemist, is to break and create bonds to organize pre-existing molecules into new shapes and forms," he said
Does anybody else's mind drift off to the lab of Dr. Frankenstein? Although the first law of physics states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, what Greg is doing seems to come pretty darn close.
"But, yeah, the molecules in our lab, to the best of our knowledge, have never existed before. Synthesis is a really cool thing. You know at the end of the day, you get to hold a flask that you know you are the first person in the world to have ever held that molecule and looked at it, so it's really kind of cool," Greg said with a genuine look of pride.
Speaking of pride, Greg has nothing but praise for Sibert, his principal investigator.
Gone fishing...
"I think it's pretty unique to the department that all graduate students are on a very friendly, casual basis with Sibert. It's not some sort of aloof professor and students. We'll go, as a group, out to lunch and then hang out. That's a very unique atmosphere.
"And I think that's Sibert's idea, actually. He has said so many times that he wants the lab to be relaxed and casual because the more at home you feel in the lab, the more you'll come to work. So we're fortunate in the sense that we have that atmosphere.
"But it leads to us coming in, even late at night. I mean, I worked until 4:30 a.m. last night in the lab. And that's not uncommon. And not even for Sibert. He's actually in there until very late at night, 3 or 4 in the morning, a couple of times a week. It's like we are working with him as, not equals but operating in that sense on a daily basis. To us, that's actually a nice leadership method that he has to get us to work or be in the lab," Greg said.
Greg spoke of a trip last summer, when Sibert chartered a boat out of Lake Jackson to fish the Gulf of Mexico. Students from Sibert's lab participated as well as chemists from Dow Chemical Co. Before catching their bounty of fish — red snapper, mackerel, mahi mahi and shark — Greg said that they spent three hours heading out to sea.
"That's the thing: When you get a bunch of chemists on a boat, and you are isolated from everybody else, the conversation naturally turns to chemistry. So we just sat around, from the time the boat leaves the dock and you go out to where you are going to fish and you just end up chatting about chemistry.
"I mean, whatever comes to your mind. So actually that was a nice time for the UTD people and the Dow people to get together and have candid conversation, 'Hey, this is working. Hey, this isn't working. What do you think?' that sort of thing.
"Gosh! You learn almost as much in those sort of casual settings as you do at a professional conference because you get to ask very specifically what it is you want to know," Greg said.
- Updated: September 23, 2005


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text: Is this a video of John Hodgman improving a Mac vs. PC commercial, tearing apart Vista shred by shred by improv? There isn't any of that "baby music" and the audio sounds raw. The language seems to be in the personal style of his book, Areas of My Expertise, which I find incredibly inspiring and distracting when I try to listen to it while I blog. Yes, if I am anything, I am a conflicted man. Give it a listen.