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We are writing a live blog of the U.S. stock market Tuesday. You can read a wrap of pre-market actions here and after the open, a compact rundown of the stock market in Market Snapshot.
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- 9:39 am
- In the green
- by Laura Mandaro
- Add a Comment
Happy Tuesday!
Green is the thing for this May opener. The S&P 500 is notching out an intraday record, hitting 1,908.80.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average is up 40 points at 16,646.
The S&P 500 is up 15 points at 1,907.
The Nasdaq Composite is up 20 points at 4,206.
- 9:49 am
- What's working
- by Laura Mandaro
- Add a Comment
Durable goods orders was a big crowd pleaser.
Thanks for orders to military equipment, overall orders rose last month rather than fell. Stocks strengthened and Treasurys added to losses. Gold tumbled to its lows of the session.
The report didn't look so great in the details, by the way. Bookings fell in most civilian categories.
- 9:56 am
- Power companies leading
- by Victor Reklaitis
- Add a Comment
FirstEnergy /quotes/zigman/201722/delayed /quotes/nls/fe FE and Exelon /quotes/zigman/252515/delayed /quotes/nls/exc EXC are the two best performers in the S&P 500 so far today, last up 5.1% and 4.7%, respectively.
- 9:59 am
- WSJ: How to navigate a 'sideways' market
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
How do small investors deal with a market that is in large part moving sideways, and stay in the market for the long term? Blue Marble Capital Management president and global investment strategist Vincent Catalano discusses. Photo: Getty.
- 10:04 am
- Maintaining gains after confidence figure
- by Victor Reklaitis
- Add a Comment
That consumer confidence figure from the Conference Board just came out in the last couple of minutes, and stocks are basically holding their gains.
The reading was 83, matching what was expected by economists polled by MarketWatch.
- 10:12 am
- Apple hits 52-week high
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Apple Inc shares reach 52-week high as tech stocks rise, write Rex Crum.
Tech stocks started the week on a largely upbeat note Tuesday, with Apple Inc. among the advancers. Apple shares rose by almost 1%, to a 52-week-high of $620 as the company prepares for a 7-for-1 stock split to take effect on June 9. Gains also came from Facebook Inc., LinkedIn Corp. and Cisco Systems Inc. The Nasdaq Composite Index rose 33 points to 4,219
- 10:13 am
- Small caps lead
- by Victor Reklaitis
- Add a Comment
About 40 minutes into today's session, all the main indexes are showing solid gains and trading near session highs.
The tech-heavy Nasdaq and small-cap Russell 2000 are faring better than the S&P 500 and Dow, which of course feature older, bigger-cap names.
Dow +0.4%
Nasdaq +0.8%
Russell +1%
The S&P 500 still has the best year-to-date gain of 3.3%, while the Russell's performance is the worst, but the small-cap benchmark has cut its YTD loss to 2.2%.
- 10:29 am
- MarketWatch Radio newscast
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Wall Street continues to gain ground. And chicken producer Pilgrim's Pride wants to gobble up Hillshire. MarketWatch's Ann Cates reports.
- 10:31 am
- S&P breaking out, 2000 next?
- by Victor Reklaitis
- Add a Comment
The S&P 500 is breaking out today, Colin Cieszynski writes in a note this morning.
The senior analyst at CMC Markets says 1,900 now looks like a support level, followed by 1,890.
"Initial measured resistance appears near 1,940 then 1,980 with a run at the 2,000 big number barrier possible in the near term," he writes.
- 10:34 am
- HillShare Brands soars
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
A potential merger between Pilgrim's Pride Corp. and Hillshire Brands Co. sent shares of Hillshire surging Tuesday.
Shares of Hillshire Brands surged 22% following the announcement of a buyout offer from Pilgrim's Pride. Pilgrim's Pride's $6.4 billion bid for Hillshire would pay out $45 a share in cash and break up Hillshire's previous agreement to take over Pinnacle Foods Inc., the food company said.
Pilgrim's Pride was up 4.3% and Pinnacle Foods dropped 5.9%.
- 11:13 am
- Colin Cieszynski: Breadth in this rally
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Colin Cieszynski, chief market strategist at CMC, says that traders came back from the long-weekend in a good mood.
"Gold is positively hammered and the fact that the S&P 500 is trading above the 1,910 level suggests there is a real flow of capital back into riskier assets and away from havens.
After new highs in the industrials and transports a few weeks ago, this is a confirmation that there is breadth to this rally.
However, the fact that the Vix is so low means that investors are getting complacent, so that is worrying."
- 11:31 am
- Add a Comment
#Russell2K clears 1,135 confirms upturn following downtrend break and highlights growing #breadth of market advance. #SPX now above 1,910.
— Colin Cieszynski (@CCieszynski_CMC) May 27, 2014
- 11:45 am
- MarketWatch Radio newscast
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Pilgrim's Pride is offering to buy Hillshire Brands which wants Pinnacle Foods.
- 11:56 am
- Quincy Krosby: headline numbers were good, but ...
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Quincy Krosby, market strategist at Prudential Financial, says headline numbers on Tuesday's economic reports were good, but one could also find negative details.
"Durable-goods orders rose, but capex part actually declined. Corporations are still hesitant to invest in capital expenditures. For this market to go higher, companies must deliver top-line growth, because we know the Fed is winding down the QE.
Today we would want to see much higher volumes to validate new highs on the S&P 500."
- 12:19 pm
- Gold loses its luster
- by Sue Chang
- Add a Comment
Gold is poised for its lowest close in more than three months on a combination of technical correction and strong equities.
"A stronger U.S. dollar tone, aided by better than expected April durable goods, up 0.8%, continue to drive capital into to the equity markets. The $1,277 level must hold to prevent a test of significant support at $1,262," said Peter Hug, global trading director at Kitco Metals, in his note.
Gold for June delivery /quotes/zigman/698029/realtime GCM4 shed $24.30, or 1.9%, to $1,267.40 an ounce.
- 12:26 pm
- A protein-rich combination
- by Sue Chang
- Add a Comment
Hillshire Brands /quotes/zigman/10406668/delayed /quotes/nls/hsh HSH is better off merging with Pilgrim's Pride /quotes/zigman/13509380/delayed /quotes/nls/ppc PPC than pursuing a deal with Pinnacle Foods p /quotes/zigman/14664120/delayed /quotes/nls/pf PF , said Ken Goldman at J.P. Morgan.
"We think joining two protein companies makes a lot more sense than marrying a meat company with one that has a focus on frozen vegetables," Goldman wrote in a report to investors.
So far the market likes the idea of a union between Hillshire and Pilgrim's Pride with Hillshire surging 22% while Pilgrim's Pride rose 1.9%.
- 1:06 pm
- Oppenheimer: Go long on Google
- by Sue Chang
- Add a Comment
Shares of Google Inc. /quotes/zigman/93888/delayed /quotes/nls/googl GOOGL got a lift after Ari Wald at Oppenheimer ranked large-cap tech stocks as his favorite pick and recommended staying long on Google.
"We recently added GOOGL to our buy list and view recent losses as a tactical opportunity to build a small position. While the stock is stabilizing at its 200-day moving average, continued weakness in the Internet space could pressure the stock to $465. However, we are comfortable with this near-term risk because we believe a positive long-term trend should take the stock to new all-time highs in the coming quarters."
Google rose 1.1% to $570.09 as of mid-day.
- 1:39 pm
- Market update
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Stocks are slightly off their session highs but still firmly in the positive territory.
S&P 500 /quotes/zigman/3870025/realtime SPX +0.42%
Dow /quotes/zigman/627449/realtime DJIA +0.33%
Nasdaq /quotes/zigman/12633936/realtime COMP +0.75%
Russell 2000 /quotes/zigman/2759624/realtime RUT +1.09%
- 1:49 pm
- A choppy summer ahead for stocks?
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Marty Leclerc, portfolio manager at Barrack Yard Advisors says "it would not be unusual for us to have a choppiness" for the next several weeks. He says investors should ignore the market's gyrations and stick with "quality names."
- 2:48 pm
- Power surge
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
The power sector is one of the stock market's biggest winners after getting a boost from the country's biggest grid operator this weekend.
FirstEnergy /quotes/zigman/201722/delayed /quotes/nls/fe FE , Exelon /quotes/zigman/252515/delayed /quotes/nls/exc EXC and NRG Energy /quotes/zigman/337115/delayed /quotes/nls/nrg NRG sit atop the S&P 500, each gaining about 4%.
From Dow Jones Wires: PJM Interconnection LLC, which operates the grid in 13 states, completed an auction Friday that increased an element of prices, as much as doubling what it pays for these companies to supply power. Analysts said it would be a big win for power companies in that territory, increasing their baseline revenue stream.
- 2:55 pm
- Add a Comment
Going back 40 yrs, the avg May tends to bottom on 25th and rally nicely the rest of the month. $SPY http://t.co/2TejRbapy7
— Ryan Detrick, CMT (@RyanDetrick) May 27, 2014
- 3:11 pm
- Newscast: S&P stretches record-breaking gains
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Newscast: S&P stretches record-breaking gains. A proposed $6.4 billion buyout of Hillshire Brands has its shares surging.
- 3:12 pm
- Add a Comment
Utilities now has the weakest breadth reading of any sector. That's what bulls want to see during rallies: pic.twitter.com/Y2CeDzFouF
— Bespoke (@bespokeinvest) May 27, 2014
- 3:18 pm
- Why is gold falling?
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
From Mark Hulbert: Here's the real reason gold is falling.
Are you surprised gold bullion has been weak recently, including a 2% drop today?
You shouldn't be. It's exactly what contrarian analysts were forecasting at the beginning of this month, given the absence of the high wall of worry that bull markets like to climb.
Unfortunately for gold enthusiasts, the market has no better sentiment today than it did a month ago.
- 3:28 pm
- WSJ Live: Bond market flips the script on risk and reward
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
For many bond investors this year, the reach for yield has come up short. Bonds perceived as safe have produced better returns than riskier ones for the first time since 2010 and the second time since 2006, according to data from Barclays. Katy Burne joins MoneyBeat.
- 3:49 pm
- Koesterich: Low volatility can have a downside
- by Anora Mahmudova
- Add a Comment
Russ Koesterich, Global Chief Investment Strategist at BlackRock:
In pushing stocks higher, investors looked past some mixed economic data. Not only did stocks advance, but volatility also fell to its lowest level in more than a year. Low volatility can have a downside, in that the market may be vulnerable to a slide should there be any outside shocks — a possibility with key elections taking place in Europe and Ukraine. While we would remain overweight equities, we would exercise a bit of caution in the near term and focus on areas of the market that offer good value and downside protection.
- 3:52 pm
- Nasdaq break through?
- by Victor Reklaitis
- Add a Comment
The Nasdaq has staged a significant technical breakout, according to MarketWatch's Technical Indicator column.
The column by Michael Ashbaugh features the adjacent chart.
Read more here.
- 4:02 pm
- The close!
- by Victor Reklaitis
- Add a Comment
The main indexes all closed higher for a fourth straight session.
The S&P 500 scored another record close.
Dow +0.4%
Nasdaq +1.2%
Russell 2000 +1.4%
- 4:15 pm
- Workday up after hours
- by Victor Reklaitis
- Add a Comment
Workday /quotes/zigman/12221563/delayed /quotes/nls/wday WDAY is rising in late trading after its quarterly earnings report.
Read more about Workday's results and other late movers in our After Hours column, which will be available shortly here.
That's a wrap for today's live blog. Thanks for checking it out.


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2018 Ford Fiesta
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Asking Price
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4 Cylinder
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Audio Streaming: Bluetooth, Audio Voice Recognition, Phone Wireless Data Link Bluetooth, Phone Voice Activated, Airbags - Driver - Knee, Rear View Camera, Airbags - Front - Side, Airbags - Front - Side Curtain, Airbags - Rear - Side Curtain, Linked Or Integrated Apps, Electronic Messaging Assistance With Read Function, ABS Brakes (4-Wheel), Audio System 6 Speakers, Seats Cloth Upholstery, Audio Auxiliary Input: USB, Seats Front Seat Type: Bucket, Air Conditioning - Front, Auto-Lock, Power Door Locks Anti-Lockout Feature, Exterior Mirrors Power, Audio In-Dash CD: Single Disc, Windows Laminated Glass: Acoustic, Multi-function Remote Keyless Entry, Rear Seats 60-40 Split Bench, Security Perimeter Alarm, SYNC - Satellite Communications, Mirror Color Body-Color, Air Conditioning - Air Filtration, Capless Fuel Filler System, Floor Mat Material Carpet, Spare Wheel Steel Rim Type, Audio MP3 Player: CD MP3 Playback, Airbags - Side-curtain Rollover Sensor, Security Remote Anti-Theft Alarm System, Windows Front Wipers: Variable Intermittent, Windows Rear Defogger, Braking Assist, Braking assist hill start assist, Airbags - Front - Dual, Front Brakes Ventilated Disc, Grille Color Black With Chrome Accents, Power Brakes, Rear Seats Split Folding, Security Engine Immobilizer, Audio Auxiliary Input: Jack, Front 12V Power Outlet(s), Driver Information System, Floor Mats Front, Rear Seats Rear Heat: Vents, Steering Wheel Tilt And Telescopic, Windows Solar-Tinted Glass: Front, Child Seat Anchors LATCH System, Front Suspension Classification: Independent, Front Suspension Type: Macpherson Struts, Audio - Radio: AM/FM, Electronic Brakeforce Distribution, Power Steering, Rear View Monitor In Dash, Stability Control, Traction Control, Airbags - Passenger - Occupant Sensing Deactivation, Center Console Front Console With Storage, Door Courtesy Lights, Driver Seat Manual Adjustments: 6, Inside Rearview Mirror Manual Day/Night, Interior Metallic-Tone Accents, Reading Lights Front, Seatbelts Emergency Locking Retractors: Front, Seatbelts Seatbelt Force Limiters: Front, Seatbelts Seatbelt Pretensioners: Front, Spare Tire Temporary Size, Tachometer, Warnings And Reminders Maintenance Reminder, Cargo Area Light, Engine Battery Saver, Suspension Stabilizer Bar(s): Front, Floor Material Carpet, Multi-function Remote Keyless Entry With Panic Alarm, Rear Bumper Color Body-Color, Steering Wheel Mounted Controls Audio, Storage Front Seatback, Vanity Mirrors Dual, 2-stage Unlocking, Air Conditioning - Front - Single Zone, Audio - Speed Sensitive Volume Control, Exterior Mirrors Manual Folding, Multi-function Remote Trunk Release, Rear Brakes Drum, Retained Accessory Power, Roll Stability Control, Seatbelts Seatbelt Warning Sensor: Driver And Passenger, Window Trim Black, Adjustable Rear Headrests, Assist Handle Front, Assist Handle Rear, Audio - Antenna: Mast, Audio System 80 Watts, Body Side Reinforcements Side Impact Door Beams, Child Safety Locks, Clock, Crumple Zones Front, Crumple Zones Rear, Digital Odometer, Driver Seat Manual Adjustments: Recline, Emergency Interior Trunk Release, Exterior Mirrors Spotter Mirror, Front Headrests Adjustable, Front Seatbelts: 3-Point, Headlights Halogen, Headlights Quad Headlights, Number Of Front Headrests 2, Number Of Rear Headrests 3, Passenger Seat Manual Adjustments: 4, Passenger Seat Manual Adjustments: Recline, Seatbelts Second Row 3-Point, Seats - Driver Seat Manual Adjustments: Height, Spare Tire Inside Mount Location, Storage Accessory Hook, Storage Door Pockets, Suspension Front Arm Type: Lower Control Arms, Suspension Front Shock Type: Gas Shock Absorbers, Suspension Front Spring Type: Coil Springs, Suspension Rear Coil Springs, Suspension Rear Gas Shock Absorbers, Warnings And Reminders Low Fuel Level, Warnings And Reminders Low Oil Level
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Students Relished in New York Immersion Experience• October 11, 2007 Share:
Scott Crawford and his Career Services Office is leading a mini-immersion trip to New York City over Fall Break. Wabash students are meeting with Wabash alumni to learn about careers and the city.
Several of the students will be writing about the visit. Bachelor reporter Patrick McAlister is helping coordinate the students' effort.
Check back through the weekend for updates and photos!
Visiting CBS, Seeing Celebs, and Knowing I Must Work Harder
Today was another whirlwind day, and, even though this was our third excursion into Manhattan, we still hadn't figured out the subway system. Most New Yorkers who commute from other states or other boroughs to Manhattan know this system like the back of their hand; as outsiders, we were forced to follow small pocket maps. In fact, our most effective and coveted tool for travel was Senior Brian Crum's iPhone with its map feature. It provides me yet another reason I need to buy one.
But I digress.
Our first stop today was to meet CBS sales executive Rick Calacci '91. We were allowed behind the scenes of one of their major stages. We wandered around the set of the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric and BET show 106 and Park. The elevator that was to take us to these sets opened up and out emerged R&B giant Brian McKnight. The page giving us the tour said this type of celebrity run-in is pretty germane at the CBS center.
After the tour, Calacci took us to lunch and gave us some idea of where he came from. Calacci thought any experience Wabash men have in a big city like New York is important regardless of what they intend on doing in the future.
"I think one of the limitations of any liberal arts school is that they are always confined to parts of the country or areas that are either rural or small town environment," Calacci said. "To bring kids from that rural environment into a big city is a really eye opening experience and one that everyone should participate in for a day, week, semester, grad school or for a business career."
After CBS, the group tooled over to Lexington Street to the Bloomberg building. For me, this was probably one of the best parts of the experience. Bloomberg was for me the epitome of an intense, progressive organization operating at a level that transcends most business. Their building design was out of a movie, the technology used by the employees was state of the art and the people were interactive and constantly moving. It reminded me of everything I have seen and read about Google's corporate structure. I sincerely hope more businesses take pages out of Bloomberg's book.
Our final stop was as atypical of everything else we had seen thus far in our trip. Every other business, from Goldman Sachs to Bloomberg, were established names of reputable and profitable organization. VAULT Inc. was not like those other places. Established in 1997 at the advent of the dotcom boom, its total revenue last year was $52 million housing roughly 100 employees – much smaller than the $1 trillion in assets of Goldman Sachs.
VAULT Inc. is responsible for creating guidebooks with the "inside scoop" on many major corporations including the abovementioned. Analysts look at the individual corporate culture of each company to give the job searcher an idea of what it would actually be like to work at the searched for company. VAULT has expanded to include many graduate schools and international opportunities for graduating students. I was thrilled to get an inside look at what happens at a smaller company looking to grow.
I was thrilled with the opportunity to meet with so many fascinating alums in New York City. Each has a unique story to tell, some with more vicarious career paths than others. Nonetheless each utilizes their Wabash education to its fullest extent. I fly away from New York with a greater appreciation for all the hard work I have to put into my education.
In photo: Steve Zajac '10 and Patrick McAlister '10 at Times Square.
- Patrick McAlister '10
Trip Helps Senior Learn He's on the Right Path
There is no doubt that New York City is art the center of the country, and its job market is just as competitive and unpredictable as many other scenes that we can find in the city. I had the chance to meet with gallery directors, high profile officers in private organizations and museum coordinators who shared the "secret" of their professional path with me. It was helpful and reassuring to know that most of them said that I was on the right path; that they, just like me, started with the kind of things I am doing right now (internships, individual research projects, etc) and they have worked their way up to their current positions.
They all looked at me resume and were very impressed with it; I understood that it is not just a matter of connections, although that is indeed a very helpful part of the entire situation, but of ambitions and tenacity.
Matthew Deleget, class of '91, said to me that after Wabash everything is a piece of cake. Wabash prepares you for Grad School; Wabash prepares you to face the big problems of the world through the necessary critical skills. A certain gallery director was very impressed with the idea of the trip in and of itself, since she said that was a total foreign idea at her school.
This trip has been very helpful to trace my career path. I was clueless when I got to NYC, now I know what I need to do. I have the connections and the skills; it is just a matter of time.
In photo: The Wabash College students in front of the famous bull in the financial district.
-Ivan Acebo-Choy '08
Students Visited Thursday with Alums in Finance
Today started at 8:30 AM with a crowded train ride into the city from our Jersey City hotel. The Subway in New York was literally everything I imagined and more – cranky, tired people literally crammed into cars for a cheap $1.50 ride into the city. It was most definitely the "immersion" part of our trip.
The three stops today were Banc of America Securities, Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. At each stop, we had alumni discussed what it took to get and maintain some of the most coveted positions on Wall Street – Financial Analysts.
The Financial Analyst profile is pretty germane no matter where you go. The average starting salary is around 65K. However, with bonuses some make north of 120K in their first year, depending on the strength of the market and job performance. The analyst also gets a crash course on their specific market sector, be it healthcare, chemical, energy or whatever. Many analysts after two years either go on to top level business schools or work for other corporations for top dollar.
All that experience and money come at a significant cost, however. Many analysts post 110-120 work hour weeks, coming in around 9 AM and leaving after 1 AM many nights. Many times analysts are asked to work weekends and once in a while an analyst will need to pull an all nighter, in order to help get a deal done as quick as necessary. And they are all supposed to do it with a smile on their face.
We stopped first to visit Jay Allen '79 at Banc of America Securities. Our alum at Citigroup, Harsh Singh '01 had to cancel on us because of an emergency meeting in Philadelphia (such is the life of a Wall Street Banker I guess). He had colleagues present in his stead, and they gave us an excellent overview of one of the world's largest banks.
Our final stop was to meet Dr. Tom Halverson '87, Chairman of Goldman Sachs Bank. Dr. Halverson's career path into banking was the more vicarious than I heard today.
A political science major at Wabash, Halverson then went to DC and did various political jobs for two years before going to London to earn his D. Phil at a London university. He then worked for the European Reconstruction Bank, a large umbrella organization which helped get former communist countries on a more western economic trajectory. He then went to work for Goldman, living in London and Hong Kong before finally moving to New York to manage Goldman's first foray into commercial banking. His eclectic career path seems like something a Wabash man is truly destined for.
After our trip to Goldman, the guys headed over to Chelsea in the Meat Packing District for dinner at a restaurant called Macelleria. Chelsea is the chic, up and coming area of New York – which makes it no place for a person like myself, of course. Nonetheless, our dinner party gave us an excellent opportunity to sit and chat with alumni from the banking industry to the theatre.
Tim Closson '09, who has been in New York for his study abroad experience since the beginning of school this year, also met us at Dinner. Closson informed me he will be assisting Marcus Doshi '97, a light designer for theatre productions in the city. Doshi graduated with a Masters in Fine Arts from Yale Drama School, the best light design program in the country. Closson's ability to network put him in contact with an excellent alum with connections all over the New York theatrical scene.
That type of networking is exactly why most of us came on the trip. Friday we will visit CBS, Bloomberg Media and VAULT Inc.
In photos: Above, students listen to Jay Allen '79.
Group Arrives in Big Apple
After multiple delays even before we left Indianapolis, we finally got of the ground at 4 PM and landed in Newark, New Jersey at 5:40. We dropped our stuff off in our hotel in Jersey City and went immediately to Manhattan for dinner.
Our esteemed tour guide and Career Services Director Scott Crawford decided on a small hole in the wall place in East Greenwich Village to eat some cuisine never to be found in Crawfordsville – Ethiopian food.
The food was strange – it was served on a very large platter that many shared at the table. You took a piece of bread – which was a spongy doughy concoction - scooped up some of the beans, lamb, chicken or beef, roll it all together and eat it like an egg roll. Some of it was very spicy; some of it was milder. Although as a lifelong Hoosier I do prefer my meat and potatoes, I was glad I experienced Ethiopian food once in my life.
On our way back to the subway that will take us back to our hotel in Jersey, Scott had us on yet another detour. We stopped at a chocolate store – Max Brenner's Chocolate by the Bald Man. This store is literally enough to put a chocoholic into a chocolate coma. It has chocolate everything – from the traditional chocolate milkshakes to chocolate martinis.
There was even a chocolate syringe – you would literally take a syringe full of chocolate syrup and squirt it into your mouth. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but those who tried it were glad they did.
Tomorrow we will be going to talk with alums at Citigroup, Bank of America and CBS. Look for a post about our day later!
- Patrick McAlister '10


text:
Kyocera Ecosys FS C2526MFP Toner Cartridges and Parts
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Emperor Chi- New York (Produced by Hard Work)
Ryde Out Records reports: "In this song titled "New York", Emperor Chi does a great job describing the state of New York rap and why it has hit an all time low, but he also mentions why New York still holds the crown. (Produced by Hard Work)
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Volume 14None.
Volume 29Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a howling manga tsunami, an epic graphic-fiction masterpiece that leaves no stone unturned and no blade unbloodied. A boiling blend of action, horror and humor, Berserk is not for the faint of heart, the weak of knee of the lilied of liver. No Guts, no glory!
Volume 14: No text. WHAT?!
Volume 20Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a bludgeoning manga bulldozer
Volume 34...and dark humor that places Berserk among the most respected–and feared—manga series ever published.
Volume 35Like a gauntleted fist to the face, Kentaro Miura's Berserk is a shocking explosion of epic action, gruesome horror and dark humor that places Berserk in the pantheon of adult manga.
Almost every one of these harps on about DARK, GALLOWS HUMOR, TABOO HUMOR, BLACK HUMOR, RULE-BREAKING HUMOR... Can anyone point out an example of this in the series? Nothing comes to mind for me. Humor isn't exactly a large part of this series. Not to say it's not featured, but worth putting on the back of a box? And to cast it in such a light...?
Volume 13...and remorseless humor...
God, these are terrible. I can't help but wonder if Dark Horse's presentation of the manga has something to do with the misconception some people have that Berserk is this grimdark and edgy gorefest and nothing else. I mean really, if you didn't know any better would reading those blurbs make you want to get into the series? I probably would have dismissed it as some juvenline, power fantasy schlock.
I hate the black and red colour scheme that most of the anime releases go for as well. Come on guys, you can be more creative than that!
I try to rationalize it in my head that all blurbs are bad, and I'm not really sure who they're written for. But I do think they ultimately do Berserk a disservice, by filtering everything that occurs in the series down to its most "BRUTAL" components. I feel like there's probably some value in hinting at the many other flavors the series has to offer.
I've been complaining about that since the late '90s For a decade, nearly every Berserk fan site (but ours) had a strict Red+Black color scheme. Dark Horse's alien-font for the Berserk logo is also pretty appalling. The suppose they're trying to evoke the original Japanese volume logos, but with the gun metal texture, it looks like something Locus might shit out while in his apostle form.
Yeah, I mean hopefully I'm not coming off as some kind of prude when it comes to the violence in Berserk since I love that shit, whether its Guts taking Rochine's horn through his face or Mozgus grinding up nightmare penis monsters, I'm 100% down for that, but to act like it is ONLY that while simultaneously ignoring everything else the series has to offer is just sad.
Volume 39's decidedly more subdued:From creator Kentaro Miura comes Berserk, a sprawling adult fantasy epic of horror, humor, and fierce imagination and the inspiration for the wildly popular anime.Hope they're talking about '97
Huh. Is that all the text that's there? No mention of 1 million sold?
"The Godfather of manga" (Anime Planet) is one of the longest-running adult manga series ever published and has sold over 1.5 million copies in Dark Horse translated editions.
There's more text after that.


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Win a 'Best Sleepover Ever' Prize Pack from The Who!
With the release of 'Quadrophenia: Live in London' and the news that there will be a new album expected in the fall, there has been increased interest in the Who of late. To celebrate, we're giving away a Who 'Best Sleepover Ever' Prize Pack courtesy of The Creative Quirk.
Our sleepover prize pack consists of three items: a sleeping bag, complete with its own carrying case; a onesie and a bathrobe, which also comes with four Who pins. All items feature the Who's early target logo and 'Quadrophenia'-era logo. Both the onesie and the bathrobe have soft fur lining inside the hoods.
Based in the U.K., The Creative Quirk specializes in uniquely designed licensed merchandise. In addition to the Who, they also have products from the Rolling Stones, the Ramones and the Beatles. You can view their catalog at their website.
For your chance to win the Who 'Best Sleepover Ever' Prize Pack, simply follow the instructions in the widget above. Sharing your entry on Facebook and Twitter will give you more opportunity to win. The contest ends on Monday, Aug. 11 at 11:59PM Eastern. Be sure to read the official contest rules!


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How to Find Us
Something Else for the Weekend is based at:
UCL Roberts Building
Malet Place
Look for the Waterstone's bookshop on the corner of Gower Street and Torrington
Place. We are opposite that in the orange building with big glass windows.
Some events take place at The UCL Art Museum and The Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology.
Crime Scenes and Cycle Paths: Copenhagen's Hidden (Hi)stories
Date: May 11, 2013
Time: 2pm - 3pm
Location: Ground Floor Lecture Theatre, Roberts Building, Malet Place, London, WC1E 7JE
You've seen the statue of the Little Mermaid, walked with Prime Minister Nyborg through the corridors of parliament, and crossed the Øresund Bridge in Saga Norén's police car. Ever wondered about the other stories that lie hidden in the courtyards and canals of Copenhagen?
Come with us on a one-hour interactive tour of the city in the company of old friends like HC Andersen, Birgitte Nyborg and Martin Rohde, as well as some new acquaintances from the Danish literary scene.
FREE - just turn up!
(Image © Kim Wyon, 2012)


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Vacay layaway: Pay now, enjoy later plans spread to vacations
Cruises, airlines, travel agencies offer savers debt-free choices
Hear the word "layaway" and you'll probably envision presents under the Christmas tree. But instead, imagine yourself at the beach under a palm tree, as travel agencies and airlines have begun promoting vacation layaway plans.
The vacay layaway -- and similar payment options -- allow you to book your dream vacation now and pay for it down the road.
Because of the relatively small upfront payment, "it's easier to make a commitment earlier," says Marty Seslow, vice president of sales and marketing at Gate 1 Travel.
While Gate 1 has offered travel layaway for years, others embraced the option more recently after retailers such as Sears and Walmart began reviving the pay-now-buy-later practice during the heart of the recession as a way to move merchandise.
Now, layaway is expanding beyond items such as TVs and toys. Sears, for example, launched Sears Vacations in the summer of 2012. The website allows travelers to put thousands of cruises and vacation packages on layaway.
The company says it introduced the option so consumers wouldn't have to skip their vacations because of financial concerns.
"It's a natural fit for Sears," says Shannelle Armstrong, the company's director of public relations. Layaway already is offered at the chain's physical stores, "so our customers are used to more flexible payment options."
Airlines add payment options
Even some airlines have entered the game. In October, British Airways began offering layaway for vacation packages. "This will benefit both families looking to budget for their 2013 holidays as well as those looking to book a special occasion like a honeymoon or luxury holiday," says British Airways Holidays Managing Director Claire Bentley, in an email statement.
Delta offers something similar -- a two-step payment option, says spokesman John Kennedy. Travelers can book a vacation with a $150 deposit charged to a credit card, and then the remainder of the balance is charged to the card 31 days before departure.
Vacation budgets tight
Whether you pay early or late, vacations aren't cheap. In 2012, consumers expected to spend an average of almost $1,200 per person on their summer vacations, a survey by American Express found.
It's a time when many household budgets are still stretched thin, and many consumers are wary of running up new credit card debt.
As of February 2013, American consumers still owed almost $851 billion in revolving debt -- comprised almost entirely of credit card debt -- according to the Federal Reserve. That figure has increased just 0.5 percent from the low recorded in 2010.
Bruce McClary, director of media relations for ClearPoint Credit Counseling Solutions, says putting a vacation on layaway can be appealing. "This allows people who may not have access to credit to take advantage of opportunities without going deeper into debt."
While the details vary from company to company, vacation layaway typically means paying a deposit at the time you book your trip, then paying off the balance several weeks before you travel.
No set series of payments
Unlike traditional retailers' layaway plans, vacation layaway providers don't require you to pay a set amount every few weeks. While you can do that if you prefer, your only financial obligation is to pay off the balance by a specific date.
Seslow says Gate 1 had considered establishing a set payment schedule, but "it seemed too contrived and constricted."
Before you get into something, know what your cost is for changing your mind.
|-- Donald Lichtenstein
University of Colorado
Donald Lichtenstein, chair of the division of marketing at the University of Colorado, says layaway appeals to consumers, as well as retailers and travel companies, because of "sheer inertia." If someone has committed to pay $50 a month for a TV or a trip, they're most likely to continue paying that amount each month until the purchase is completed, rather than canceling the purchase.
Or if they put $200 down on a $2,000 trip, knowing they'll lose their deposit if they don't complete the transaction, they'll be inclined to pay up, even if an emergency crops up, because of the financial commitment they've already made, Lichtenstein says.
"Before you get into something, know what your cost is for changing your mind," he cautions.
While you're likely to lose your deposit if you back out on your layaway vacation, there also are typically costs involved for canceling or changing flights when you purchase your ticket directly, unless you buy travel insurance.
And layaway can have drawbacks if you have a credit card that offers points or rewards, he says. By using layaway "you may be missing out on earning rewards."
Before you rush off and put your once-in-a-lifetime trip to Europe on layaway, "take a moment for a quick reality check," McClary warns, and make sure it actually fits in your budget. "Travel is a wonderful thing, but you don't want to go on vacation now and be regretting it years later."
|Layaway plan
|Eligible travel
|Deposit amount
|Payment terms
|Cancellation terms
|Sears Vacations
|More than 5,000 land-based vacation packages and 3,000 cruises
|At least 10% down
|No regularly scheduled payments. Pay the balance at one time or in increments. Balance must be paid off before travel begins.
|Deposit nonrefundable. Also may be subject to vendor cancellation fees
|British Airways Holidays
|Travel packages of $3,000 to $3,999
|$900 for packages between $3,000 and $3,499; $1,050 for packages between $3,500 and $3,999
|No regularly scheduled payments. Pay the balance at one time or in increments. Balance must be paid off 10 weeks before departure.
|Generally deposit is not refundable. Some exceptions apply.
|Gate 1 Travel
|Land-based travel packages and cruises
|$100 for land packages and $200 for cruise packages
|No regularly scheduled payments. Pay the balance at one time or in increments. Balance for land-based vacations must be paid off 45 days before departure; cruises must be paid 120 days in advance.
|Deposit is not refundable.
|Norwegian Cruise Line
|Cruises and land-sea vacations
|Depends on length of cruise and type of cabin. Minimum of $100 for 3-night cruise
|No regularly scheduled payments. Pay-off depends on length of cruise and type of cabin, but must be paid for at least 60 days in advance.
|Varies depending on length of cruise, type of cabin. Canceling closer to departure date results in larger penalties, up to 100% of the cruise fare.
|Delta Vacations
|Selected vacation packages
|$150, charged to credit card
|No regularly scheduled payments. Balance is charged to the same credit card 31 days prior to departure.
|Deposit is nonrefundable.
|Source: CreditCards.com research, March 2013
- Your Chase card could help you get your next personal loan – Chase recently announced it will launch two brand-new personal loan options that will be available to its cardholders ...
- Are contactless 'tap-and-go' credit cards about to take over the US market? – Contactless cards, which you tap instead of dipping or swiping, currently make just a tiny fraction of the credit card market in the U.S. But that may be about to change ...
- How to pay, send, receive money using Google Pay – Google has combined Google Wallet and Android Pay in one mobile wallet and P2P app: Google Pay. Here's everything you need to know about security, privacy, payment options and fees ...


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By Barry Duchan
In the 1973 Amateur Draft, right after the Texas Rangers selected the highly regarded and ultimately ill-fated David Clyde with the first pick, the Phillies used the second selection to take catcher John Stearns out of the University of Colorado. The next two picks both turned out to be hall-of-famers, Robin Yount and Dave Winfield. Since Bob Boone was just starting what would turn out to be a long tenure as the Phillies' #1 catcher, it's a little hard to understand why they would have taken Stearns over Yount and Winfield. Stearns, of course, never achieved anything close to HOF level, but after being traded to the Mets, he had a pretty good career. He might have fit in even better with a contending team, but the Mets were awful during Stearns' entire tenure as catcher, while the Phillies with McGraw as bullpen ace and Boone as catcher were perennial contenders in the '70's and early '80's.
The December 3,1974 trade that involved Stearns and Tug McGraw was an interesting one. McGraw had some shoulder trouble during the 1974 season, and the Mets had some doubt whether he would return to form. So, trading McGraw along with two nondescript outfielders for Stearns, one of the best young catching prospects in the game, Del Unser, an experienced centerfielder and well-regarded leadoff hitter, and Mac Scarce, a lefty specialist who looked like a cinch to win a spot in the bullpen seemed almost like a no-brainer.
Stearns wasn't quite ready for big league duty, but by 1977, he became the team's number one catcher and despite a string of injuries, was good enough to represent the Mets in the All-Star game 4 times. Stearns was solid all-around with exceptional speed for a catcher being his trademark, but he never really became a big star and certainly wasn't in the class of Yount or Winfield. Also, Stearns was injury-prone leading to a lot of missed time and ultimately a shortened career, and in retrospect, his numbers weren't all that good, although they were better than what most of his teammates produced.
Stearns will be remembered as a hard-nosed, hustling player on some terrible Mets teams. Unser and Scarce were both disappointing, so the trade will ultimately be remembered as McGraw for Stearns, so Stearns was in effect, "replacing" a true Mets' hero and one of the game's great personalities, and it was kind of unfair to put that onus on him.
John Stearns later served as a coach and minor league manager with the Mets. He is still managing in the minor leagues, and who knows, may yet become a big league manager. Like so many young players who came to the Mets in trades, the fans had high hopes for him which were never quite fulfilled, but Stearns was solid and did put in a few good years with the team.
About Barry Duchan: I've been following the Mets since 1962. Have to admit I was a Yankee fan as a kid, but I found it to be so much more interesting to see how a young team could build itself up rather than following a team where the season didn't really begin until October. I remember them all - Casey, Marv, ChooChoo, Don Bosch, The Stork, etc. As the years went on, I became more and more of a Mets fan, and a Yankee hater once Steinbrenner and Billy Martin entered the picture. Read More -->


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Turned out to be a fateful decision of sorts as I saw an eastern painted turtle trying to cross Rt. 202 (busy road) and I picked him up and moved him to a safer area at the edge of the woods.
Ran 3.1 miles @ 7:50/mile pace.
Paved roads.
Slightly hilly.
Mid-70s, sunny.
Saucony Kinvara, shorts.


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Welcome to Our New Site! We are proud to announce the unveiling of our new website at Corporate Technology Group!
Learn more about what Corporate Technology Group can do for your business.
Call us today (817) 557-4091(806) 355-3316
801 Stadium Dr Suite 112, Arlington, Texas 76011509 S Arthur Street, Amarillo, Texas 79102


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Kepler-22b is the closest planet yet to Earth in terms of its potential for supporting life. However, it is so far away that we wouldn't be able to send any possible inhabitants a message, much less plan a visit. Still, "the discovery that the planet Kepler-22b is in the habitable zone around a sun-like star is a crucial step towards discovering life outside the solar system," said astrophysicist Mario Livio.
NASA's Kepler mission on Monday confirmed the discovery of a small planet 600 light-years away from Earth in the "habitable zone" of a star not unlike our own sun.
About 2.4 times the size of Earth, the newly confirmed planet -- called "Kepler-22b" -- is the smallest yet found to orbit in the middle of the habitable zone, or the region where liquid water could exist on a planet's surface.
This diagram compares our own solar system to Kepler-22, a star system containing the first "habitable zone" planet discovered by NASA's Kepler mission. The diagram shows an artist's rendering of the planet comfortably orbiting within the habitable zone, similar to where Earth circles the sun. Image credit: NASA/Ames/JPL-Caltech
Though scientists don't yet know if Kepler-22b is primarily rocky, gaseous or liquid in composition, its discovery is a step closer to finding planets similar to Earth.
"This is a major milestone on the road to finding Earth's twin," said Douglas Hudgins, Kepler program scientist at NASA.
Of 54 habitable-zone planet candidates reported in Feb. 2011, Kepler-22b is the first to be confirmed. The discovery will be published in The Astrophysical Journal.
A 290-Day Orbit
While Kepler-22b is larger than Earth, its orbit of 290 days around a sun-like star is much like that of our own world. Though it is smaller and cooler, the planet's host star also belongs to the same class -- dubbed "G-type" -- as our sun.
To discover such planets and planet candidates, Kepler measures dips in the brightness of more than 150,000 stars as indications of planets crossing in front of them. At least three such "transits" are required to verify that a signal is a planet.
A variety of instruments are used to review and verify observations made by the Kepler spacecraft, including ground-based telescopes and the Spitzer Space Telescope. Making that task more difficult, Kepler observes a star field in the constellations Cygnus and Lyra that can only be seen from ground-based observatories between spring and early fall.
More Than 1,000 New Candidates
"Fortune smiled upon us with the detection of this planet," said William Borucki, Kepler principal investigator at NASA Ames Research Center, who led the team that discovered Kepler-22b.
"The first transit was captured just three days after we declared the spacecraft operationally ready," Borucki added. "We witnessed the defining third transit over the 2010 holiday season."
Kepler has also discovered more than 1,000 new planet candidates, nearly doubling its previously known count. Included among those are 10 that are close to Earth's size and orbit in the habitable zone of their host star, but follow-up observations will be necessary to determine whether they are true planets.
'A Crucial Step'
"The discovery that the planet Kepler-22b is in the habitable zone around a sun-like star is a crucial step towards discovering life outside the solar system," Mario Livio, a senior astrophysicist with the Space Telescope Science Institute, told TechNewsWorld.
While the fact that liquid water can exist on the surface of the planet "does not necessarily mean that there is life there, we think that liquid water is a NECESSARY ingredient for life," Livio explained.
Planets discovered by Kepler "are not the easiest targets for follow-up observations because of their distance," he added. Still, "they provide the important information that these planets do exist, and with time, they will provide us with information about the frequency of such planets."
Future telescopes, such as the James Webb Space Telescope and its successors, will attempt to identify "biosignatures" in the atmospheres of these planets, Livio noted.
'We Couldn't Get There'
The discovery is an interesting one, but even if Kepler-22b does turn out to be habitable, it likely won't have any practical implications for humans anytime soon, Paul Czysz, a professor emeritus of aerospace engineering at St. Louis University, told TechNewsWorld.
"We couldn't get there if we had to," Czysz said.
The star system closest to Earth, Alpha Centauri, is just over four light-years away from Earth, he pointed out, meaning that it would take more than four years to travel there at the speed of light, or 40 years at one-tenth of the speed of light.
'We're Isolated'
We can't yet even come close to speeds of one-tenth of the speed of light, however, making the prospect of trying to travel the 600 light-years to Kepler-22b completely prohibitive, Czysz said.
Humans also haven't yet come up with a transmitter than can send a signal that far, Czysz added, making any prospect of trying to send a message in case there's life on Kepler-22b equally bleak.
"As it stands right now," he concluded, "we're isolated."


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The Congos
Read a review
Download Cover Notes pdf
Buy Heart Of The Congos (2-CD) £10.00
Bring the Mackaback Sample!
What the press say:
No reggae album more obscure than the Congos' Heart of the Congos is as rich, and no richer album is as obscure. The Congos were just a duo, airborne falsetto Cedric Myton and tenor Roydel Johnson, who got together in 1976 and approached old acquaintance Lee 'Scratch' Perry about recording an album at his Black Ark Studio. This was in a two-year period when Black Ark (along with King Tubby's) offered the most exciting, unpredictable facilities on the island and attracted top hands like guitarist Ernest Ranglin, organist Winston Wright, and percussionist Noel "Skully" Simms. During the sessions, unrepeatable chemistry resulted in Perry's finest production of a vocal group and a body of songs more vivid than anything else by the Congos. Oddly, Island Records passed on The Heart of the Congos. Perry put it out under his own Black Ark insignia. Then the Congos released in themselves. The British Go-Feet label reissued it in 1980. It has popped up several other times, each edition muddy sounding, incomplete, or both. The handsome Blood and Fire reissue package gathers every snippet; vocal renditions and their dubs, extra Perry-Congos numbers and a second CD of 12-inch remixes. This is a full-length revival metting in the Promised Land of the Rasta faithful, though nonbelievers can still revel in its fervent activist force. Perry knots electronic and handmade beats with consummate ease while Ranglin and Wright deliver unobtrusive solos that etch like slow acid. The album swims in hazy tones, shot through with mammoth bass rumbles and slow sweet moans from background singers, most often the silky Meditations. The sound that bursts out immediately is Cedric Myton's falsetto. On "Can't Come In" and "Solid Foundation" he seems to breathe the same air as Curtis Mayfield. Roy Johnson puts the vocal dignity and assurance he learned as a member of of all-Rasta bands into his tenor work on tunes like 'Open up the Gate'. The snaps and rumbles that power 'Congoman' make it a party natural, as does the jocular mood of 'At The Feast" Passover plus ganja). Poetically twisted Biblical metaphors add mystery to 'La La Bam-Bam' and especially 'Ark of the Covenant', which fuses that ark and Noah's into a militant salvation granted to 'Even the ants / Safe in a Noah sugar pan.' Still, compassion for humans shines on Heart of the Congos. The mysterious images of 'Fisherman' flow around and around from Jah Rasta/Jesus as a fisher of men, to a provider of spiritual food, to a symbol of the congregation voyaging to redemption. All that is certain is that those who would save their souls must row to reach higher ground. No one sings the parable better than the Congos. Milo Miles - Spin (US), June '96
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Items where Author / Artist / Editor is "Holton, John"
|See full list of headings
Younson, Justine and O'Mahony, Rachel and Liu, Haiqun and Grant, Steven and Campion, Colin and Jennings, Lisa and Vaira, Dino and Kelly, Charles G. and Roitt, Ivan and Holton, John (2009) A human domain antibody and Lewisb glycoconjugate that inhibit binding of helicobacter pylori to Lewisb receptor and adhesion to human gastric epithelium. Journal of Infectious Diseases, 200 (10). pp. 1574-1582. ISSN 0022-1899
De Bernardis, Flavia and Liu, Haiqun and O'Mahony, Rachel and La Valle, Roberto and Bartollino, Silvia and Sandini, Silvia and Grant, Steven and Brewis, Neil and Tomlinson, Ian and Basset, Rachel C. and Holton, John and Roitt, Ivan and Cassone, Antonio (2007) Human domain antibodies against virulence traits of Candida albicans inhibit fungus adherence to vaginal epithelium and protect against experimental vaginal candidiasis. Journal of Infectious Diseases, 195 (1). pp. 149-157. ISSN 1537-6613
O'Mahony, Rachel and Basset, Christelle and Holton, John and Vaira, Dino and Roitt, Ivan (2005) Comparison of image analysis software packages in the assessment of adhesion of microorganisms to mucosal epithelium using confocal laser scanning microscopy. Journal of microbiological methods, 61 (1). pp. 105-126. ISSN 0167-7012
Basset, Christelle and Holton, John and O'Mahony, Rachel and Roitt, Ivan (2003) Innate immunity and pathogen-host interaction. Vaccine, 21 (Supple). S12-S23. ISSN 0264-410X


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OMET Partners with Clemson's Sonoco
- Published: May 01, 2009
Lecco, Italy | OMET S.r.l. has formed a partnership with Clemson Univ.'s new Sonoco Inst. of Packaging Design and Graphics. The emphasis will be on printed electronics, and the hope is that Clemson will be able to break new ground in this emerging market.
OMET has donated a Varyflex press to be used by students for R&D, industry activities, and for OMET customer demonstrations. The narrow web press features seven printing stations that can be configured with rotary screen, flexography, or gravure, with a variety of solvent-based, water-based, and UV-curable ink systems. It can handle polymer substrates as thin as 12 microns or paperboard materials as heavy as 600 microns, while achieving high-end registration through a complete servo-controlled system.
Find more news at www.pffc-online.com


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Complexity and enjoyment
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Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 346
Topic: Complexity and enjoyment
Posted: October 25 2012 at 15:29
What qualities do you feel makes a song complex to create? Are these the the same qualities you seek for auditory enjoyment? Just curious to hear what the prog community comes up with...
Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011
Location: DruryUniversity
Status: Offline
Points: 2533
|Posted: October 25 2012 at 21:32
Good topic.
I think that complexity is a requirement for music to be considered progressive rock, but it can be difficult to define as musicians can explore complexity in a number of ways. A song that is not complex in the traditional melodic/harmonic/rhythmic way can be complex in the intricacy of it's parts, in the timbres it uses, and in the atmospheres it generates. I'm not even going to try to define how any of those aspects can be complex (I'll let our post rock experts and other more knowledgeable people take that one on) but I think it's important to realize that complexity comes in many more forms than many of us traditionally recognize.
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 27 2012
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 69
|Posted: October 25 2012 at 21:35
One factor that I feel is responsible for a lot of complexity and (for me) personal enjoyment in music is rhythmic in nature. If a piece of music contains unusual time signatures, or multiple voices playing in differing rhythms, this makes it more complex. Not only do I find the complexity enjoyable, I like the "layering" that results from the interaction of these different rhythms. In general, the presence of many interlocking layers makes music both complex and enjoyable for me, but the rhythmic component of this is one of the most influential aspects.
I would say that complexity (to a point) can hold a listener's attention, because in the absence of a complex arrangement, the music can become either predictable or sparing, both of which can be boring. This isn't to say that sparse music is necessarily boring, because there is a lot of good sparse music as well, but the presence of complexity can provide enjoyment of its own.
When it comes to music, very little is objective.
Eclectic Prog Team
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|Posted: October 25 2012 at 21:55
Complexity is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The most successful prog artists were complex because the existing rock music offered them an insufficient vocabulary to get their ideas across. Complexity for its own sake is rarely enjoyable (to me anyway.)
While I love a lot of very complex music because it challenges me and presents me with things I haven't heard before, sometimes the simplest song can be incredibly powerful.
An example fro one of my favorite musicians:
Special Collaborator
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Points: 28772
|Posted: October 25 2012 at 21:59
Rhythmic complexity is a quality I've always enjoyed in music. It's not necessary, but as a bassist and wannabe drummer, I've always paid particular attention to rhythm (both from within the rhythm section and without).
Ambient Hurricanes
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Joined: December 25 2011
Location: DruryUniversity
Status: Offline
Points: 2533
|Posted: October 25 2012 at 22:12
Amen, here's to that.
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 346
|Posted: October 26 2012 at 03:40
What makes me enjoy a song, or album, is when it moves me emotionally. If it manages to move me through multiple different ones, great. I think creating a song/album that can do this very well is, to me, the fundamental of musical complexity, and this makes some songs/albums in a different class to others (to me). I feel there are alot of tools that can be used to create this complexity. I like what ambient hurricane posted regarding the fact that there are many aspects that can be complex in music. I understand that alot of this is subjective, but there does seem to be certain songs/albums/artists that succeed in reaching out to more people than others (even within prog).
One example I can quickly think of is the opening track of The Wall (In the flesh?). When you hear the first 15 seconds of that track for the first time, you are expecting another space rock standard opener, as on earlier albums like WYWH, and then Gilmore and Mason knocks you out of your seat with a riff that basically sets the tone for the rest of the album.
Fantastic element of surprise, almost fear. Then the song starts to morph into beauty close to the 1 minute mark with that absolute peach of a riff by Gilmore. And then at the 1min30sec mark, when the vocals come in, the song starts to take on the space atmospere that the floyd is so well known for, but with more of a mad twist this time around. Absolutely brilliant! I am not surprised this album had the effect on people that it had. It was so huge, it is almost uncool :)
Most of the albums I enjoy happen to be from the progressive rock era of the late 60s and early 70s, and I feel it is for this reason mostly. The fact that alot of recordings from that time could move me so fantastically. Artists like Pink Floyd, Caravan, Harmonium, PFM, Rush etc... Absolute masters!
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Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3098
|Posted: October 26 2012 at 07:27
for me, complexities is mainly a factor product of orchestration ad arrangements. Sometimes musicians get to entangled in complexity, making their music a little dull. complexity is good, provided it conveys the emotions and the ideas the music is meant to express.
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Joined: March 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2400
|Posted: October 26 2012 at 08:37
I'm in agreement about rhythmical complexity. I think that is the first thing that draws me into music. After that though, I look for melodic complexity. However, I find even fairly simple songs can become quite interesting if the arrangement is complex.
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|Posted: October 27 2012 at 09:04
Could be odd time, could be dissonance, could be lots of harmonic or rhythmic changes, could be layers of harmony, plenty of things that could make music complex. As far as enjoyment, firstly, it's a personal preference and depends on what each one enjoys. And secondly, it depends on whether the complex arrangements serve the need of the composition or not. If they are there just for the sake of it, just to make it sound proggy, it's probably going to be more of an irritant than an attraction. IMHO, it should ideally be done so neatly that you do not even notice the complexity until you start paying attention to the details.
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|Posted: October 27 2012 at 09:15
For me, I get bored if a composition stays mainly in 4/4 or some other common meter - I'm always looking for changing rhythms and compound time, so that's a big factor for my own personal enjoyment.
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|Posted: October 27 2012 at 14:00
All of them and none of them. I hope that it all never becomes so clinical that, what you suggest is all there is to music!
Complex, is not hard or difficult and it might be simply something that is inherant in that culture ... but it is more difficult for someone else to play. You will find that most western musicians can not handle the different scales in India ... unless you are a seasoned veteran and enjoy Jon McGlothlin!
I don't listen to music because it is "complex" or "simple". I listen to it because the spirit behind it is special and important and valuable to my experience ... not your words! I experience it myself, not through/via someone else. Thus, for me, it is important to remain independent so you can define/illustrate your OWN ability to listen ... and learn to invest in that and EXPAND its abilities.
If all you can enjoy is a specific thing, or style, you will miss a lot of beautiful things stated in a different manner ... and I hope that you, one day, will see that a bit better and not worry about ideas and wordings that make it all so clinical that it is not enjoyable anymore.
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|Posted: October 28 2012 at 00:31
Music that is imitative is no longer complex.
Robert Pearson
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|Posted: October 28 2012 at 01:06
For me, complexity is not just playing technical stuff or odd time signature crazy stuff. Many can do it. It is nowadays not a big deal. But what is complexity is how you are able to bring emotion/feel out of such technical music. That is where your true musicianship lies. There are a lot of bands which have full emotion but no technicality as well as bands that have only technicality but no emotion. How you are able to balance them is where complexity lies. And I feel the genre of progressive is one of the few genres which have been able to do that and that is why prog is so great. From the 70s till date, there are a lot of bands which were able to master that balance and that is why they are legendary. Being a drummer and composer of my band, I tend to make technical stuff as it is fun to play but I don't get the emotion running within me which I get when I play songs of say, Tull or Yes or SB or TA or DT, etc. This is where my other band mates come in to add new dimensions to the music
Hence, this is where I work on to improve myself as a musician on the whole to strive for that perfect balance.
And I think everyone ought to work on that in order to achieve high complexity in music and to improve themselves as musicians. If you reach that level of complexity, you not only feel happy and enjoy it but also reach another dimension.
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|Posted: October 28 2012 at 02:12
Exactly my thought.
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|Posted: October 28 2012 at 04:36
Complexity subverts the expectations of the listener, which is what can make it so enjoyable. If a song does something that you didn't expect it to do, that can be very satisfying as long as it still makes sense in the context of the song. That said, it can also be very enjoyable for a song to do exactly what you thought it would do.
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|Posted: October 28 2012 at 05:03
I don't think music should strive to be complicated exactly, when it does that it gets kinda over the top and without a point. I think most prog is complex simply because the musicians were trying to make interesting music and it ended up complex. I also think it can be complex in many different ways. Some music I made might just be a jam centered around two chords but I would layer so many different parts that I still think it is complex music to take in, even if the structure isn't as complicated as something like Yes or Gentle Giant
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|Posted: October 28 2012 at 17:41
I really think that this is exactly what populist and commercial tastes are all about. And when all one can say is discuss the "context of a song", you lose sight of the complexity! Why? ... a "song" is one of the simplistic forms of music there is!
So sorry ... that would suggest that this discussion is not progressive and is not about music ... just about one little facet in music that popular music experts do not like to admit is much more simplistic than REAL music out there, and acredit some rock music by people that DEFINITLY know the difference and were not interested in a simplistic format!
In general, adding complexity to a "song" is a waste of time ... you do not have enough time to develop the theme and make it work within the 3, 4 or 5 minute context for your ears ... so why bother with more experienced and better musicianship (or music for that matter) ... when just a top ten singer that simply has a voice with some good notes on it, and has no ability to extend that beyond the "pop song" singing routines.
Enjoyment has nothing to do with complexity or simplicity ... or next thing you gonna tell me that you having ___ with your girlfriend is a complex song .. ohhh yeah ... you have to get her flowers, make sure you do not spit on the carpet, that you do not show up late when she's ready to __________ .... your analogy is silly ... please see that, so you can FREE the music to live ... think of the music as a person ... so you will be saying that the complexity makes sense as long as it is within this person named ... your girlfriend ... kinda silly ...
There is no such thing as "as long as it makes sense in the song" ... and specially when almost all of the 20th century history of music has been about countering the process and the standard that it was defined by ... and then rock and jazz got here, and they set the music back 300 years with its simplicity ... because you certainly are not talking about a guitarist that does 10 to 15 minute pieces, or a violinist that does that ... !!!
Edited by moshkito - October 28 2012 at 17:52
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|Posted: October 28 2012 at 18:18
I would like to give an in-depth answer to your post, but quite frankly I'm not sure if I correctly understood a single word you said. A little, uh, coherence would be appreciated. So let me just say this: When I say "song", I mean it colloquially, in the broadest possible (and admittedly inaccurate) sense. The definition of a "song" requires that it have vocals, but like many other people I incorrectly refer to all types of compositions in rock music as "songs". A bad habit, if you will. By the way, this also disproves your claim that a song is a simplistic form of music: It's not a form at all. Any composition with vocals is a song, regardless of its content or complexity.
What I meant with "as long as it still makes sense in the context of the song" is that complexity should always be in service of the composition. Subverting expectations is good as long as the composition still follows an internal logic. A bunch of non-sequiturs make for a very complex composition, but also a very incoherent one. I'm not saying that something is only complex when it's enjoyable. I'm saying that complexity is only good when it's enjoyable. Complexity is not a virtue by itself, it is a tool like any other that can be employed to good or bad effect.
And that rock music reversed or set back the development of music is an odd thing to say in a progressive rock forum. If that is indeed so, the music we all enjoy must be a futile exercise is developing a genre that is degenerated and useless to begin with.
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|Posted: October 28 2012 at 20:55
^^^ I have had this problem a few times before on this forum while using the words "song" or "songwriting" because, like you, I tend to use them broadly and not specifically w.r.t the likes of Burt Bacharach. There exists a certain viewpoint that looks at 'progressive' purely from the standpoint of liberating composition from the limitations of "song" and from such a perspective jazz and rock would look like a step backwards than forwards. But I'd rather look at all the shades of expression they added to music, at all the new sounds they've brought.
His point is well made (but expressed unfortunately in a confusing manner), though, that adding complexity to a song in the strict sense of the word is pointless. Which is why I rarely find prog vocals particularly sumptuous for my taste - it can't be when the vocal sections are just interjected between long instrumental passages. The argument I have heard to that is that's like opera but it's not strictly like opera either. It's an unorthodox structure, like others prog devised in the 70s for its peculiar needs, but one that ultimately doesn't really let the singer shine. In that case, why have a singer at all...just have instrumental compositions which might facilitate deeper development of good musical ideas.
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Location: At the moment at the hunted side of Phoenix, AZ (USA). Originally from Brazil.
Más vídeos en www.youtube.com/DemonaBast
Your favourite Metal Style
Doom, Black Metal, Trance Metal, Melodic Metal, Experimental Metal
Your Bands TOP 5
Opeth, King Diamond, Incursus, Burzum, Abrutum
Male Musician most apreciated
Vlasoroth aka Valfor (VJS) 😉
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Diamanda Galas
Song always playing in your headphones
Besides mine lol…Opeth (Black Water Park), Anathema (Judgement), Burzum (Filosofem), Dead Can Dance (Cantara)
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Caipirinha, Sangria Wine, Mixed drinks, Fruitty Juices, Coffee
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Act, Sing, Model and dance for Alternative Dark Projects
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To the MetaLadies website, all Fans and friends out there…Thanks for all of your help and support! New movies, CD and photos will be out soon.
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Browsing Lindsey Blayney papers, 1893-2004 (MS 64) by Issue Date
Now showing items 1-3 of 3
Portrait of WWI Veteran Thomas Lindsey Blayney (1971)Ret. Col. Blayney wearing his uniform with medals in foreground. Portrait of younger Blayney as a U.S. Cavalry officer during World War I in background.
Thomas Lindsey Blayney, Rice University Retrospective (1962) (1962)Honorarium presented during the Rice Semicentennial; part of the Thomas Lindsey Blayney Collection
Thomas Lindsey Blayney and dog Biddy Aboard Ship to Europe (1937) (1937)Blayney was traveling with his dog to Europe, 1937.


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Frederik Wellmann
Purpose: analysis of the relations between semeiotic (physiology of signs) and logic (theory of reasoning). Meaning of "argument." Doctrine of chances. Nominalism and realism. The meaning of the word "real." CSP refers to his review of Frazer's edition of Berkeley, in which he took the qualified realist position of Duns Scotus. Here CSP comes out for an unqualified version of realism. CSP regards himself as a disciple of Berkeley, although he is opposed to Berkeley's denial of matter as well as to his nominalism. The distinction between God's reality and God's existence. God's reality, apart from the question of God's existence, canont be doubted by anyone who meditates upon the question. Belief in God is a natural instinct. The nature of God: God is both intelligible and incomprehensible. All atheists are nominalists. Is nominalism consistent? Substance and accident. Indefiniteness: The indefinite is not subject to the principle of contradiction. Modal logic. Analogy between modes of being and modes of meaning. Biographical material: CSP writes of the conferences in Paris of leading geodesists, and he recalls an incident involving Sylvester.
Accident, definition of Argument (see also Abduction Deduction Induction Inference Reasoning), Atheism, Berkeley George, Frazer's edition of, Contradiction principle of (see also Laws of thought), Duns Scotus, Frazer Alexander Campbell Berkeley, God, belief in, God, existence and reality of, God, nature of, Indefiniteness, Logic (modal see Modality), Logic and significs, Modality, Nominalism, Probability and Chance, doctrine of chances, meaning of Real, Realism, Reality of God, Reasoning (probable see also Probability), Semeiotics, Significs and logic, physiology of Sign(s), Substance, Sylvester James j.
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Phoenix Racing will put Regan Smith in its car for the Daytona 500 and plans to have Smith and AJ Allmendinger share driving duties for its Sprint Cup team in 2013.
It also hopes to reunite with Kurt Busch for Nationwide Series races.
MORE: NASCAR's biggest assets | Kurt Busch vs. the media | Top 10 prospects
Team general manager Steve Barkdoll said Tuesday that the team plans to field a Cup car for the entire season and a Nationwide car for restrictor-plate events plus other select races.
Smith will drive the Cup car at Daytona and possibly in seven to 10 races throughout the season. Barkdoll said he expects Allmendinger's first race to be at Phoenix.
Both drivers competed in races for Phoenix Racing after Busch left the team late last year. Allmendinger ran four races while Smith ran two for the team owned by longtime team owner James Finch.
Smith, who was replaced by Busch as the driver for Furniture Row Racing late last year, has a full-time Nationwide ride for JR Motorsports in 2013. Allmendinger, who was fired by Penske Racing midway through last year after failing a NASCAR drug test, said last week he had no NASCAR plans set for 2013.
"It will be more than likely AJ at Phoenix and the next handful of races," Barkdoll said. "Regan, with his concentration on the Nationwide deal, he's going to pick and choose the ones that he wants. … I talked to AJ yesterday and he doesn't have anything going right now and he did us a really good job.
"We certainly would like to find a sponsor to back it."
The team plans to announce sponsorship for the Cup events at Daytona and Las Vegas as well as the Nationwide race at Daytona soon.
For the Nationwide car, Barkdoll is hoping to reunite with Busch, who won a Nationwide race at Daytona for the team as well as driving the Cup car most of the year.
"We're going to meet with Kurt Busch about driving our Nationwide car while we're down testing (this week)," Barkdoll said.
"We would love to have him in the car and we're going to meet with him down there. … In all three of the (races that use) restrictor plates, we really had a chance of winning so we'd certainly like to get him back in the car."
Barkdoll said the current plan is to run a full season in Cup but if no sponsorship materializes during the season, the schedule could be cut back.
The team will use Hendrick engines all season, Barkdoll said.


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Finally! After much hemming and hawing and expert procrastination, I have finally made the famous (infamous) No-Knead Bread! Yes, the very yeasty monster that so many have tried before, most raving about the results. Mark Bittman, a writer for the New York Times, featured the recipe of Jim Lahey, a breadmaker from the Sullivan St. Bakery in New York. What makes the recipe special is that it involves no kneading (yes, as the name suggest, I know) and a long (12-20 hours) rest period. But of course, you already knew that seeing as to how I am probably the last to attempt this.
As you can imagine of a recipe that effectively nixes what is seen to be the most onerous part of bread-making, it took off like a rocket and spread like wildfire. Everyone tried it. It was simple, it was easy, you could do it with one hand! And best of all, it worked. People who had never made bread before were turning out boules straight out of a Montmartre boulangerie. I had to have a piece of the action.
Two things though: First, I actually like kneading. It relaxes me tremendously and, along with shopping, is my only form of exercise. Second, I am, if you haven't yet figured out, a horrible procrastinator. If you are one too, then you know how it can be – rationalization and avoidance are our weapons.
I don't have a Le Creuset/enamel/cast iron pot! (the vessel where you are to bake the bread) That was my common refrain (excuse). My friend M (Bond isn't the only one with an M you know) quickly laid that doubt to rest as she made her No-Knead Bread in a crockpot bowl covered with a ceramic plate in a turbo broiler. Yes, I know she rocks. It was soon a moot point though because I bought two cast iron faux creusets (my wallet is not yet ready to spring for the Patek Philippe of enamel/cast iron French/Dutch ovens) in IKEA during a trip to Hong Kong. So no more excuses.
And if I still was the least bit hesitant this post totally won me over. There are more no-knead blog posts out there then you can shake a stick at, but if you need to be convinced to make this bread right now, just take a look at this. I love Jaden of Steamy Kitchen – love her recipes and her story-telling – but most of all I love her two adorable sons! Technically, it wasn't Jaden that convinced me to get my tush in the kitchen and bake this bread…it was Andrew. See him in action…you won't be sorry 🙂
So! Faux creuset at the ready, I started. As Jaden says (and Andrew demonstrated) it is simpler than boiling pasta: 3 cups flour, 1/4 teaspoon yeast, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 1/2 cups lukewarm water, stir! Then cover the bowl and leave to rest for 12-20 hours. After the rest, dump it on a floured surface and with wet hands grab the dough and fold the ends towards the middle, then flip it over and tuck the dough ends under so you get a taut surface. Cover and let rest again for two hours. Half an hour before the rest ends, preheat your oven to 450F and stick the covered pot into the oven. After the dough has rested, remove the pot from the oven and dump the dough into the pot (I put a bit of parchment in to avoid sticking as Jaden advised). Cover and bake for 30 minutes. Uncover and bake for a further 15-20 minutes. You're done! (please see Jaden's post for a more detailed procedure and photos of the dashing Andrew making the bread)
Now. The reason it says "round 1" up there is because it did not turn out as perfect as I dreamed it would, but it did turn out good enough for me to keep at it until it does. If there are expert No-Knead Bread bakers out there (and I know there are!) or any kind of bakers at all, your advice would be seriously appreciated.
Here's my result:
- This is by far the best crust I have ever had on bread that I have baked.
- I like the hole-y interior…again, bigger holes than I've ever baked before.
- The depth of flavour was superior to any of my past breads.
- It was soft, hearty, with a good chew but too gummy.
As you can see, the good outweighs the bad…but it still needs some work. I've consulted with M and she mentioned that it could be too much water (causing the gumminess), which is very likely as we live in an amazing amount of humidity. Extra (too much) moisture in the air is something we need to deal with constantly, wreaking havoc to our baked goods and our hair. So one thing to think about for the next round would be to lessen the water from 1 1/2 cup to 1 1/4 cup.
Any other suggestions? Temperature, baking time, baking vessel? Did I bake it too long? Too short? Did it rest too long (I let it rest for 19 hours)? Do I actually need more water (who knows)? The dough looked just as wet as it should compared to the photos I've seen around…
Help please! 🙂 I am already half in love with this bread…if only I could turn out a less gummy crumb!
Another reason for my excitement and determination: As soon as I am done cutting my teeth on No-Knead Bread, I will move on to Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day! Yes, I have bought the book and I'm ready to eat homemade bread for the rest of my life! Ok, a dream maybe, but Jeff Hertzberg and Zoë François (the authors) are actually making it possible!
Just so you know, I still plan to knead every once in a while. I mean, a girl needs her exercise right? 🙂


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It is hard to read the recent Washington Post story about the rising power of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egyptian political life without concluding that the most important word in it is "Islamist." After all, this term shows up 11 times in the text -- including in the lede.
CAIRO -- As Egypt's ruling generals near the end of their formal reign, the country's main Islamist party is asserting increasing authority over the political system and openly confronting the powerful military.
The Muslim Brotherhood's growing influence came into sharp focus Sunday as its political wing and other Islamists established a dominant role in the 100-member body chosen by the parliament to write the country's new, post-revolutionary constitution. Liberals and leftists vowed to boycott the assembly, and at least eight withdrew from it, accusing the Islamist parties of taking over the process.
Note, in particular, that it is one thing to talk about the Brotherhood and its work and something else to talk about this organization's "political wing." This implies that the focus of the main body is something other than politics.
I've read this story several times and, to me, it seems that it is impossible to make any sense out of it without a working definition of "Islamist." The problem is that the story does not contain a definition. It is also missing a clear set of facts about what Islamists say they believe or what changes in Egyptian society they are seeking.
Thus, "Islamist" is left as a kind of buzz word that, essentially, means "really religious Muslims who are competing against liberals and leftists." We also know that they are clashing with the troubled land's predominately secular (whatever that means in an Islamic nation) military leaders.
Here's another key passage that, to me, seems a bit religion haunted.
"There's been a major shift in Egyptian politics," said Shadi Hamid, an expert on the Brotherhood at the Brookings Institution's Doha Center. "The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces is entering its lame-duck stage. At this point, no one can stop the Brotherhood."
The aged and increasingly unpopular generals are still in control of Egypt, a longtime U.S. ally considered a linchpin for Middle East peace. But the Brotherhood has been able to leverage its influence using the parliament, which is likely to become a key vehicle for channeling popular concerns, analysts said. Already, the military council has been forced to cave on several key issues amid public discontent.
The phrase "several key issues" is a missed opportunity to give readers information about the kinds of conflicts that are taking place in Egypt today. For me, reading the rest of this article turned into a search for these "key issues." This would give context for the Islamists references, if I, as a reader, was not given a clear definition.
So, I soon hit this:
The Brotherhood, however, appears emboldened and ready to challenge the military. As the group consolidates power, it is increasingly willing to take up issues popular with its constituents but anathema to the ruling generals, said Marc Lynch, director of the Institute of Middle East Studies at George Washington University.
So, now we have "issues popular with its constituents." And what might they be?
Well, there is U.S. aid to Egypt, much of which goes to the military. Then there is this:
Brotherhood leaders have portrayed themselves as pragmatists who will maintain the country's peace treaty with Israel and focus on the country's unemployment and poverty rather than social issues such as banning alcohol.
So now we have "social issues" and a specific mention of alcohol. But where these Islamists get the logic for banning alcohol?
Finally, near the end, there is a final hint:
Liberals and leftists worry that the Brotherhood and other Islamist groups will leave them marginalized. They point to the Brotherhood's huge role in the constitutional assembly, which will draft a document that will map out the role of religion, the executive and parliamentary powers and minority rights in the new Egypt.
"We are going to boycott this committee, and we are going to withdraw and let them make an Islamic constitution. We are going to continue struggling for a secular Egypt in the streets," said Mohammed Abou el-Ghar, head of the Social Democratic Party, who was elected to the assembly but has resigned his post.
He noted that Brotherhood officials had said initially the committee would represent all Egyptians' views. "But as you can see, there is no representation of secular Egypt," he said.
So this is a religion story, in the end. Thus, is the term "Islamist" linked to a strict concept of Sharia law, one that would be written into the constitution as normative and shaping the lives of all Egyptians? Where would this put Shia Muslims, Coptic Christians, Muslim feminists and many others. The Copts, after all, are 10 percent of the population.
So what does "Islamist" mean? Are these, in fact, Egyptians who embrace what is ordinarily called "Islamism"? If so, here is one online definition of that term:
1. An Islamic revivalist movement, often characterized by moral conservatism, literalism, and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all spheres of life.
Literalism? This term only raises more questions. Might the Post team have offered its readers some guidance, some help in understanding the issues that loom behind this important religion story?
Just saying. Again.