text:
Vatican ruling on disputed Medjugorje shrine expected soon
Has the Virgin Mary been appearing daily for many years in the once obscure Bosnian village of Medjugorje to share religious messages with a few local believers? Is the site visited by over 30 million pilgrims a hoax? The question has long divided Catholics who have debated whether the visions are a modern-day miracle, wishful thinking or the result of an elaborate fraud.
(Photo: Virgin Mary statue at reported apparition site, 25 June 2009/Damir Sagolj)
After observing events sceptically for many years, the Vatican may soon issue firmer guidance for Catholics on the claim that the mother of Jesus has been visiting the Balkans, Cardinal Vinko Puljic, head of the bishops' conference in Bosnia, told Reuters in an interview on Tuesday. That guidance, if it clearly expresses the scepticism the official Church has long shown towards the Medjugorje phenomenon, could deal a serious blow to a site some Catholics see as a "new Lourdes."
"We are now awaiting a new directive on this issue," said Puljic, the Sarajevo archbishop who survived the city's long wartime siege in the 1990s. "I don't think we must wait for a long time, I think it will be this year, but that is not clear… I am going to Rome in November and we must discuss this."
Official Church scepticsm about Medjugorje has become more public in recent months. In June, Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar, the nearest city in Bosnia, warned Catholics against uncritical belief in Medjugorje and issued a series of restrictions on the parish. "Brothers and sisters, let us not act as if these 'apparitions' were recognised and worthy of faith," he said in a sermon (full text here in Italian translation).
Then in July, Pope Benedict defrocked Rev. Tomislav Vlasic, the former "spiritual director" to the six visionaries, after a year-long probe into charges he exaggerated the apparitions and had fathered a child with a nun.
(Photo:About 20,000 Catholic pilgrims in Medjugorje, 24 June 2001/Matko Biljak)
The investigation, according to a Catholic News Service report, focused on alleged "dubious doctrine, the manipulation of consciences, suspect mysticism and disobedience towards legitimately issued orders." One account of his story called him "a modern-day Rasputin with a taste for sex and séances" and another placed the Medjugorje story in the context of anti-communism and Croatian nationalism.
Six children first reported visions of the Virgin Mary in 1981 in a scenario reminiscent of famous apparitions in the French town of Lourdes and Fatima in Portugal. In the following years, the Bosnian village became a major pilgrimage site, giving many visitors a renewed sense of spirituality and locals a steady source of much-needed revenue. It also became the focus of controversy as local Franciscan priests running the site promoted their claims in such open defiance of warnings from the Vatican that 10 of them were expelled from the order and the local bishop called them schismatic.
The 1992-95 Bosnian war disrupted the flow of pilgrims, but with three now middle-aged locals still reporting visions, thousands still flock to the Bosnian town every year. One of the visionaries, Ivan Dragicevic, says on the Medjugorje website that he has received nine out of ten secrets from the Virgin Mary, another element reminiscent of Fatima. He now spends half the year in Medjugorje and the other half in the United States, stopping off in places such as Canada and Peru as well to give lectures on his experiences.
Puljic declined to give his own views on the events of Medjugorje. "People have the right to pray everywhere, including in Medjugorje," he said.
(Photo: Pilgrims pray at reported apparition site, 25 June 2009/Damir Sagolj)
"It is not a sin to pray, it's not a sin to hear confessions, it is not a sin to give penance, this is a good climate. But this phenomena, apparitions or visions, falls to the (Vatican) commission," said the cardinal. "It is a very delicate question."
Do you think Medjugorje represents a miracle or a fraud? What should the Vatican say about it?
We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/
As Jesus said in the Bible, if they're not against us, they're for us. I want to believe the events at Medjugorje all these years are definitely true and real. But even if the Vatican rules on it and says they're not, lots and lots of good and holy things seem to have come out of the whole thing. So as Jesus said, if they're not against us, they must be for us. What's been going on over there cannot be the devil's work with that much good going on.
I believe that the Virgin Mary the Mother of God is and has been giving messages to the six seers. Look at the the out come and see the fruits it has brought about. I hope the Pope will be in favor but he has the last say and we must listen to what he says. God Bless and that is what the blessed Virgin would tell us to do.
I believe the message is good, Prayer, Repetance, kindness, love…all matches with our Catholic Church,we do have wolfs among the sheep, that is normal, we must carefully look at the message and what is coming out of the apparitions…the messages…the conversion of sinners…of course the Vatican has the last word…May the Holy Spirit guide the Pope and may we obey…but God also said, watch for the signs…Mary is guiding us to HER SON JESUS>>>
I am medical doctor and have been in Medjugorje for five times. The Bishop of Mostar has never interviewed he visionaries nor the priest in charge during the apparitions which is pretty weird if you want to know truth. On the contrary, Cardinal Schonborn from Vienna use to invite the visionaries to his cathedral. The defrocked franciscan friar has nothing to do with the visionaries since he left the parish 25 years ago. If the Vatican recommends not to go to Medjugorje I will keep going to pray I continue my conversion there…
I have never believed in this. The "good" that has come of it has come from people of good will, who, through the grace of God, could probably have brought the same or similar good under other circumstances. But the immorality, the disobedience, the contradictions of the people directly involved, and some of the words supposedly from the Virgin Mary, are not "with us" at all. I doubt Satan originated this event, but I'm sure he is quite content to steal even one soul by means of it, and he has probably gained even more than that. God, however, can bring great good out of anything, even lies, disobedience and scandal. This power of God does not make the evil good, it just shows how great is his power. This thing is a very popular fraud, which will test the obedience of Catholics when the Vatican makes its declaration.
I have visited Medjugorje four times "so far" and will return, I have read the Messages which are in line with the Gospel of the Lord. I have one photo of the "Blessed Mother"
taken be me, and I do not mean a statue. I have experienced the Holy Peace in this little village and have heard a Heavenly choir of Angles, not to mention the physical and spiritual healing that has transpired while I have been in Medjugorje. I will continue to Trust in Jesus, and His Blessed Mother, and will obey the direction of the Pope.
I have been to Medjugorje and the love and peace I felt there was "not of this world". I believe the six visionaries are telling the truth and if they were frauds, they would have been found out a long time ago. We judge by the fruits. We should not judge on what this priest or that priest did or didn't do, what are the visionaries saying and doing in their lives? They seem to be living holy lives and giving good example.
To say that many holy things have happened in Medjugorje doesn't do anything to lend it credibility, because many prodigies, conversions, and supposed healings were also reported at the apparition sites of Bayside (New York) and Necedah (Wisconsin) both of which were condemned by the local Ordinary (bishop) as false apparitions and hoaxes.
I've been there twice, in 1997 and 1998. If you can judge something by its fruits, it has been huge in my life. To this day since Medjugorje I go to Mass many times each week, regular confession, participate weekly in Eucharistic adoration for over 11 years, pray the rosary almost every day, praise God and his holy name all the time and generally I now live a sacramental life and believe, adore and have faith & trust in God. It has been the greatest blessing of my life outside the sacraments! Thank you dear Mother for drawing me to Medjugorje.
I have been to Medjugorje, witnessed the miricle of the sun, my rosery changed to a gold colour from one minute to the next, my friend who had no belief, did not want to receive a blessing by fr.Jozo, at my persistance, he agreed, after being blessed by father Jozo, walked out of the church with with full faith, wow, that was the greatest miricle I have ever witnessed in my life I had known him for 8 years. Medjugorje changed my life I have never been the same, so Do I beleive, Mary our mother is there?? are you kidding, of course she is there –
Attention readers — comments here must be in English. Several are coming in now in foreign languages, but we want everybody to be able to read them so we have to insist on a common language. All the non-English comments that have come in so far have been in languages I understand and they present no other problem. But I've had to delete them because others might not understand them. Anyone who has sent a comment in a foreign language is invited to resent it in English.
One of the seers came to a town near my home in Illinois. The event included the recitation of the Rosary, a talk by the seer, and a visit from the Blessed Mother following the talk. Yes, the apparition was scheduled–for 6:40pm to be exact. Now, the Rosary was said and the talk may have been spiritually uplifting but a scheduled appartition?
No doubt much good has come from Medjugorje but this is the same good that would be wrought from prayer, confession, and Mass. And, has there not been some spoiled fruit? Was this level fame and wealth attained (or even sought) by other approved visionaries? I would hope that folks have faith in the Christ through His Church and are therefore not too badly wounded if Medjugorje is proved fraudulant.
I believe with my whole heart that Medjugorje is true…..I have never been there…..but, I truly wish I can go…..I have been reading the messages for years, and I try hard to live them…..I have never felt closer to God than I have now at this moment of my life….I pray our Holy Father finds Medjugorje to be authentic and I also pray for the 6 visionaries who have been blessed with these apparitions for the last 25 years. I could just imagine what poor St. Bernadette must have endured in her life here on earth……or Lucia, Francesco, and Jacinta…..it must have been very hard for them……May they all help now to show us all the truth……we need this more today than we ever had before…..Let's us all pray our rosaries everyday for the Blessed Mother's intentions in Medjugorje…….
I have been to Medjugorje 10 times( and hope to return ) and each time has been a Blessing and a very big help in my daily conversion. The feeling that you get while you are there and Peace is like no other. There is no doubt that the apparitions are authentic and in the end will be approved by the church. GOD BLESS
While an apparition can be considered to be false while it is still allegedly happening, I don't think the Vatican will proclaim Medjugorje as "approved" while it is still happening. That would be giving approval to supposed messages that haven't even been announced yet. The most they might do, most likely, is either say it is not approved, or say that the fruits appear to be good – which is what the signals already appear to be. From what I have read, people have had amazing experiences of grace in Medjugorje. It is good to read that those who love Medjugorje will obey the Vatican, whatever the decision on it is.
The Church has always and everywhere taken a skeptical attitude towards private revelations such as Medjugorge (and Lourdes, and Fatima) until they can be authenticated without a doubt. Usually this happens years after the apparitions stop happening, and after any predictions or prophesies have been fulfilled. One of the tests the bishops use to determine whether these things are true or not is the attitude of the seers. If they are humble and obedient, even in the face of skepticism and suppression from the Church it is a better thing for the truth of the apparitions than if the seers seem to be self-seeking, and disobedient to proper Church authority. The Church's perspective is centuries, not decades, so they don't have to be in a hurry to approve this. They'd rather be absolutely right than approve something in haste that might lead the faithful away from God (give scandal) if the apparitions are eventually debunked. I appreciate that the shepherds of the Church take such a careful attitude when it comes to such things. But, all that said, like the Lady at Medjugorge says, don't wait for the promised sign, to be given for the non-believers, to believe and have faith. By then it might be too late.
I went to Medjugorje last year as a full believer; I now am not and am convinced the apparitions there are Satanic like those of Garabandal. The devil has many powers and things like the scent of roses, alchemy and pulsations of the sun can be deceptions. The things I saw while in Medjugorje were not consistent with what others were seeing. By contrast, everyone at Fatima saw the miracle of the sun during the final apparition. Contrary to some of the posts here, the bishops have questioned the "seers" and were met with lies, contradictions and disobedience to their authority. None of this happened during the investigations of Lourdes and Fatima and Our Lady would never condone or foster such disobedience. The "messages" themselves are not focused or consistent with Church teaching (i.e. "all religions are equal before my Son"). Unlike Bernadette of Lourdes, Juan Diego of Guadeloupe and Lucia Dos Santos of Fatima, the "seers" of Fatima live lives of luxury compared to the intense poverty of thier neighbors in Bosnia-Herzegovinia and not one of them had a vocation. In addition, there are no hotels in Medjugorje: all the pilgrims wind up staying in "guest houses" which are run my family members of the "seers." Probably the best argument against Medjugorje came from the priest who traveled there with my group when I was there. On our final day, he scolded us in the homily for spening the week looking for "signs" when the greatest miracle was right before us – Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
Lord Jesus said"You will know them by their fruits" 30 million people have had the opportunity of visiting the site, many more have been evangelized by them. Granted some rotten apples have emerged, but they can be counted individually being so few. This is a matter of FAITH, and the Church's responsibility is to defend and preserve our FAITH. Be very careful in trying to destroy Medjugorje you are not trying to destroy our Catholic FAITH.
About 21 years ago I experienced a tremendous personal conversion in Medjugorje and my faith is stronger today than ever. I've been there 4 times and have never found such peace as I find there. I have been graced with a number of 'extra ordinary' experiences while there on pilgrimages. If this is not of heaven, why would the devil work in such a manner? "By their fruit shall you know them" (St John)
Yes, there have been betrayals of the spirit of Medjugorje, but Jesus too, had his Judas.
I will of course follow Rome, but I know Medjugorje changed me forever!
Wednesday, October 7, 2009
I went on a pilgrimage to Medjugorje from late May to early June 2004. How could the wonders I witnessed be anything but miraculous? Every message I have ever read attributed to the "seers" is biblical. Recall the stories of how the atheistic government tried to bomb Medjugorje and everytime they tried the area disappeared from their radar screens?
My question to anyone who has been there: what is not miraculous about Medjugorje? I see it as a work of God for the Last Days in which we are living. My theory of Medjugorje is that a place is being prepared (probable on Cross Mountain) for the Two Witnesses to return to the world (read your Bible Book of Revelation, Chapter 11, verses 1-13). If you believe the Bible you believe Medjugorje.
Like Helen's comment, anyone who has ever witnessed a miracle in Medjugorje is going to be a believer, or has been present for an apparition with the visionaries will believe as well. I have been present for an apparition with Ivan, and it changed my life. I will always believe Our Lady was there, no matter what anyone says.
I have been consecrated to Jesus through Mary since 1978. I was not sure if it was Our Lady appearing in Medjugorje until I watched a video in 1987 during the Marian Year (the year JPII gave to the Church to draw close to and honor Our Lady). In this video when I saw the droves of people going to confession my heart believed. I have since been there 3 times. The experience of Our Lady's love and presence in embracing Her messages of love has been indescribable. The change and deepening of my prayer life has been beautiful. I have also received tremendous grace to bear the hardships and sufferings of my life during all of these years by taking to heart the messages Our Lady has been giving to mankind there. Our Lady's apparitions in Medjugorje have been a tremendous gift of God's mercy to humanity in this time. Read what St. Louis de Montfort has to say about the age of Mary, Her time and Her children. I will remain obedient to the Holy Father with whatever decision comes from him. May God be glorified and Mary loved during this Her era. God's peace.
Please check your facts here, Rev. Tomislav Vlasic was NEVER a spiritual director to the six seers. see mej.com for further information.
Our Lady of the Most Holy Rosary pray for us all!
I think it is very possible that these apparitions are true. Who is to say what the Mother of God can and cannot do?
I prefer to follow the apparition of Our Lady of America from Rome City, IN and Her definite messages which give direction to us with more detail than any of the messages I have read coming out of Medjugorje. Learn about the Our Lady of America messages by visiting OLTIV dot org. I have been there several times and I can assure you the presence of Our Lady and the Holy Spirit is very strong there.
BTW: these messages of Our Lady of America have received Canonical approval as far back as 1962 and have recently been supported by Archbishop Raymond Burke.
Read the messageas and make your own decision after careful discernment.
Nope, I don't believe it. I believe this is a fraud. It's just on a very big scale. Folks are going to feel quite angry at the church if they aren't validated.They are just spiritually hungry. Kinda makes me think of Montanism, a Heresy from about 133ad. They had many followers too. God is good and he can bring good from it.
I personally have been to Medjugorje twice already (1990 and 1991) and I for one admit that, in both of my trips, I came to the conclusion that something good really is taking place there. However, in all frankness, I am starting to get skeptical about Medjugorje (I have not gone so far as to renouncing my belief in it but I sure am getting there!) for the simple reason that the apparitions have been going on for so long, so very, very long! What's more, the supposed messages are just getting repeated over and over again making the Blessed Virgin sound like a broken CD! In all the approved apparition sites, Our Blessed Lady appeared only a number of times (the most number was in the Belgian town of Beauraing where she appeared 33 times and then, she spoke very, very little there and in the few times she did speak, she spoke in one short sentence each time) and, at the same time, in the space of just one year. Now if Medjugorje really is of God, it will withstand the test of time, that's for sure. In any event, we already have all that we need to achieve our personal salvation (the Sacraments, for instance). You want to be with Christ? Then go visit the Tabernacle in your own parish church (which, for many of us, is but a mere walking distance from our home thus never needing an exorbitant amount of money for a plane ticket!) and Christ is already there in all His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (that's why Sr. Briege McKenna said that, when we present ourselves before the Tabernacle, we have the exact same privilege as, say, Jairus because we are presenting ourselves before the exact same Jesus who raised Jairus' daughter from the dead). You want to know what God's message is for you? Then go read the Bible. You want to communicate with the Blessed Mother? Then reach out for your rosary and pray it (the Blessed Mother will hear you loud and clear wherever you may be).
I believe Medjugorje represents a miracle, i believe in de grace of God, Mary, Jesus, i sie satan in a women in 2OO6 in Medjugorje……….
From Belgium – Medjugorje I've been there 9x.
Furst X 2000 etc……..2OO9
I Thank for de special grace of God, Jezus, et Mary in 2OOO, 2005.
I believe Medjugorje represents a miracle………..
Medjugorje is a gift to the Church in our day and age. God did not need to send His Mother down to earth to warn us that we are on the wrong path — He could have just punished us with little warning for mankind's sins like in ancient biblical times. But He chose to send His Mother and so many innumerable spiritual graces have been received through her appearances in Medjugorje — countless conversions, vocations, movements inspired by the place. It may be that Medjugorje will go through a testing period but in the end the hand of God will be revealed to be there.
aLL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THE GOOD THAT IS COMING FROM mEDJUGORJE. i THINK THIS IS JUST A bISHOP TRYING TO SHOW OFF HIS AUTHORITY. bISHOP'S DO NOT OBEY THE Pope and priest do not obey the bishop's, parents do not obey the priests and children do not obey parents. Its the world we live in. John Paul II said if he were not the Pope he would go to Medjugorje. I am a believer.
it's a parody of Fatima, simple as that.
well Mary was the mother of Jesus, and I'm sure she was a good woman but she is not in the trinity, nor is she Jesus.
Here is the problem with this, this diverts attention from Christ.
1 Jn 5:20-21
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
And I was born and raised Catholic, this is wrong
Dominick From
World School Of Prophecy & News Events
I've been there. I've seen the signs, the miracles. I've met and spoken to some of the visionaries and their family. There is no doubt in my mind it is real. Very real. God has blessed us in a remarkable way. One day everyone will know and understand. God Bless.
[…] and worthy of faith,? he said in a sermon (full text here in Italian translation). Continued- http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009 /10/07/vatican-ruling-on-disputed-medju gorje-shrine-expected… __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or […]
Thank GOD!!..I have been waiting for The Vatican rule on Medjugorje….
Look at all the good! Look at all the miracles & the blessing that have taken place. Nothing bad ever happens on apparation hill. How could these 6 visionaries never have swayed from their story in all these years, they were so young when it started, if they were lying surly one of them would have admitted to it by now. No one ever wants to beleive anything good & spiritual without 100% proof. They need to just look into their souls to know what sounds right and what sounds wrong. Medjugorie has never spoken out of line with what the Catholic Church believes, everything is for God and nothing against God and I believe that's how you can tell who is real and who is not.
I would not be the Catholic I am today if it weren't for Medugorje. It changed my life. I went 12 years ago, at the time I went I was far away from the sacraments. I have been an active Catholic, receiving Eucharist and confession regularly ever since. My life is rich with faith and I thank God for that. Medugorje is also responsible for my husband's conversion. He now has such an amazing faith. I have been there four times now and have also witnessed many miracles there, most importantly the change of hearts.
You judge a tree by the fruit it produces, Medugorje only serves to bring people fully into faith and the sacraments, it is only producing good fruit.
I've been to Medjugorje 4 times and in my heart have no doubt that Mary is appearing. The messages are straight from the bible: prayer with the heart, Eucharist, Confession, Fasting and Reading the Bible. Nothing contrary to our faith. Medjugorje has started me on my conversion and quite possibly could be the event that leads to my salvation if i am able to get to heaven someday. I now pray the rosary daily, go to mass and receive the Eucharist daily, go to confession regularly and read the bible and other spiritual readings. I still have trouble fasting. These are all wonderful fruits that are leading me towards God. Satan is the father of all lies and he would never lead anyone closer to God it is not in his nature. Therefore, he would never lead millions of people to God as Medjugorje has
The "fruits" of Medjugorje seem to be disobedience and pride in having a higher type of spirituality. These are not the sort of things one usually associates with the works of Our Lady.
We need to understand the difference between supernatural miracles God alone can do and preternatural miracles worked through the angelic spirits good angels or bad? On April 10, 1991 the Bishops of ex-Yugoslavia declared: "… On the basis of the investigations, so far it cannot be affirmed that one is dealing with supernatural apparitions and revelations." This does not rule out preternatural phenomenon. The miracle of the sun as viewed by so many at Medjugorje did not happen in the same extraordinary manner as at Fatima witnessed by everyone present and in a 70 mile radius by believers and unbelievers.
I was brought back to the church by an unapproved apparition in Bayside NY. It took me years to pull away from it having the same feelings and using the same arguments as Medjugorje devotes do today. I also witnessed miracles; rosaries turning to golden colors, photos with unexplained image popping up and the miracle of the sun. I felt I owed our Lady to defend the apparition. I know what I witnessed! I did not understand the difference between supernatural and preternatural miracles. The Devil does appear as an Angel of light and has appeared to Ann Catherine Emmerich and other mystics as Jesus and Mary. If they never had a true vision they would have been deceived. The devil divides and conquers!
Obey the Church our Holy Mother.
If all the monies time and efforts to promote the Apparitions of Medjugorje went into living the Message of Fatima approved by the Church the triumph of Mary may have taken place long ago. Disobedience to legitimate church authorities puts one in danger of cooperating in sin. The Bishop of the diocese in which the apparition takes place has the grace by God to discern the truth of an alleged apparition. Not even a Bishop of another diocese can go against the bishop of the diocese in which the apparitions take place. How many bishops have failed here to counsel the people to obey and wait. If it is from God he will change the Bishops mind. Follow the bishops in union with the magisterium. Your Salvation and the salvation of others depend on it! Spera Rose,OCDS
I have been to Medjugorje on 98'. I was with the first and second group to stay with Ivan and his family. All I can say is this. Ivan is a good man. A caring father, loving husband who is not someone who could put on an act for the 17 days I was with him.
Once right before an apparition, we were praying the rosary and Ivan's daughter started to cry. I thought "what do you do now?" Ivan got up and picked up his daughter to comfort her. We continued with the rosary and Ivan's wife came and got their daughter.
Now 11 years later and I have children, I hope that I would do the same thing if the need arises.
There is a personal perspective that reports like this do no justice to. I get upset with these reporters who already have an opinion and cannot report without injecting it into the story.
I am a firm believer in Medjugorje BUT if the Church ruled against it today, that would be fine because Mary at Medjugorje taught me that my faith is based in the Roman Catholic Church even though the flame was started in Bosnia.
Members of my family have gone to visit and there were miracles, visions of the sun, Jesus in the sky and the photos developed in the US a vision of Mary in the church. I know the presence of GOD was there by the fruits.
I, too, have been to Medjugorje. I would go back every year if I could. When the purification comes and the miraculous, indestructible sign appears on Apparition Hill, no one will have to speculate anymore. The apparitions are real and Medjugorje will be vindicated.
If I'm not mistaken, Bishop Peric was ordered by the Vatican to not make any public pronouncements about Medjugorje. It is not true that 10 Franciscans were defrocked. It is true that the devil causes division and chaos. Millions have been converted after having prayed at Medjugorje. I don't know if the visions are authentic, but I do believe Our Lady touches the hearts and souls of those who go there in good faith to pray. I have difficulty in believing the seers simply because the greatest scourge of mankind, the extermination of over 50 million human lives in the wombs of their mothers, and the termination by consequence of the hundreds of millions of lives those human babies would have generated had they been allowed to live…is never, or rarely mentioned by Our Lady. If an earthly mother was to see her children slaughtered, she would proclaim it to all…all evil stems from the evil of abortion…so why is Our Lady silent on this…? We shall see…
It is not up to us to say what the Vatican should or should not do. I believe it is authentic, but if the Vatican rules the opposite, I am done with it.
They have and always will have more information on subjects like this than I will ever have. I trust their decision.
In his recent book, "The Last Secret of Fatima," (Doubleday, 2008 – Foreward written by Pope Benedict XVI) Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, present Vatican Secretary of State, included on pp. 93, 94 in his chapter titled, "Medjugorje" a May 26, 1998 directive that he wrote as Secretary to the CDF, clarifying that the Bishop of Mostar's negative judgment of the reported apparitions of Our Lady in Medjugorje, "should be considered the expression of the personal conviction of the Bishop of Mostar which he has the right to express as Ordinary of the place, but which is and remains his personal opinion."
The Bishop's view of the events of Medjugorje is the same as yours or mine: it's his personal opinion. That the Vatican would again publicize such a directive speaks volumes…. as does the fact the Catholic media never reports it.
I believe they are TRUE – I converted to Catholicism and it changed my life – based on the Messages of the Virgin Mary of Medjugorje.
What a true Blessing from God to be living in a time when He sends His Mother to help form our consciences. Often people want to know what is God's will for my life. Just like He sent His prophets in the Old Testament to instruct the people, so today He is sending us His Mother to do likewise. God's will for our lives is summed up in Our Lady's messages. It is so very simple if we make time for God. To those who believe, no explanation is neccessary. To those who do not believe, no explanation is possible. BELIEVE!!!!
I believe in the Blessed Virgin Mary appearing in Medjugorje. I was there in October, 1997. I also believe in Holy Mother Church's decisions she makes and I will obey them, whatever they are. Remember Padre Pio was not allowed to offer Mass for years due to skepticism of his authorities, but that lasted for years, and we all realize what happened many years after that. God always makes Good from (other) good or bad. I trust in Jesus Christ, son of Mary, Savior of the World. Amen. thanks be to God!
It is good to believe in miracles, the power of prayer and intercession of our Blessed Mother. But we must remember that as true Catholics we are subject to the rule and decisions of those above us. If the Vatican is to decide that the events of Medjugorje are not divine in nature or cannot be truly considered miracles, then the decision should be accepted by all true Catholics. We must remember that the Church places its faith in the Holy Spirit and relies on its guidance when making such important decisions, and the Holy Spirit is never wrong.
"We should always be disposed to believe that that which appears white is really black, if the hierarchy of the Church so decides." St Ignatius of Loyola.
I have been to Medgjugorje 3 times in 1995, 1997 and 2000.
I truly believe Mary is appearing there.As to the length of her apparitions, what mother if her child is dying,would not sit up night after night taking care of her, trying to save her life. This is what Mary is trying to do for us, her children. Can you not look around the world and see the extent of sin and sickness? Every day our news gets worse, yet many refuse to change their lives and call on God for help. Mary loves us and through the mercy of God, she is pleading with us to convert and turn back to God. Her messages are gospel-based. Prayer, conversion, penance, faith, peace, reconciliation. May John Paul II guide the Vatican's decision.
For your information, Fr. Tomislav Vlasic was NEVER the spiritual director of the visionaries. Reporters are supposed to be objective. The above article certainly is biased against Medjugorje.
I have read so many things about Medjugorje, good and bad but there are only two things I need to say and that is For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible. I was blest with great things through Medjugorje – my life won't never be the same after my first pilgrimage and for the good that strengthen my Catholic faith. And I have been there four times. I never realize my love for Jesus until His mother showed me the way. You can tell the tree from its fruit. I will truly respect the decision of the Vatican but I am grateful to our Blessed Mother for the gift of Medjugorje which brought me and my husband back to the sacraments of the Holy Mother Church and proud to be a Roman Catholic. As Our Lady has pleaded all this years…. Pray, Pray, Pray.
This article shows the sign of the times. Anything positive is always met with skepticism. No one bothers to check to see how many lives have been changed? How many pilgrims have been there and what are the fruits? The only thing that seems to get attention is the negative statements. Several members of my family and many of my friends have been there and their lives have changed as a result of the trip. There story did not make the news it seems the only one that made it was the doubts that someone may have about it. Fatima had it detractors and there were many who claimed it was not real, but the Vatican made its pronouncement after the apparition was over. In the case of Medjugorje the apparition is still going on. In our parish we have some detractors who wish to tell us that it is not real and they try to regurgitate the same non sense that is written in this article. You can't argue with them because they have their minds already made up so therefore all we can do is pray for them. We will all see for ourselves. As the Gamiel stated in to Jesus' detractors, "lets see if this is real, if it is from God then nothing we will do can change that", and God help you if on your day of judgment you find yourself on the wrong side of God's will.
This is certainly some interesting news. We have been discussing these latest developments at the Medjugorje Forum. There have been all sorts of reactions from those who believe in these apparitions. Only time will tell what the Vatican has to say.
As an athiest who, in 1995, was called by Our Lady to go to Medjugorje, and who, through many miraculous events, had my entire life changed from one moment of disbelief in God, to the next knowing without a doubt that He exists, I must say that there should be no controversy. Almost 15 years later I am still growing and trusting in Jesus & Mary, completely, and there are many people in my life who have changed as a result of seeing my complete turn-around. This phenomenon is really Heaven sent, and my experience there has been repeated through millions of other pilgrims. Our Lady in Medjugorje has kept her messages very simple in order to draw all types of unbelievers to belief in God, and to strengthen faith. It is Our Lady's School. There are other prophets receiving messages from Our Lady or Our Lord, who get into more specific areas, to reach other certain types of people, ie, priests, fallen away Catholics, etc.
The sad thing is that people are using their brains too much, and not their hearts. We are all called to be in God's Holy Will, so that we will be happier – it's for OUR benefit. Think how wonderful the world would be if all people were in God's Will, depending upon Our God for everything, rather than thinking we are the gods and ruling ourselves in a fallen, twisted way. All you have to do is look at the condition of the world to see where our "selves" have taken us! Everyone needs to be quiet and listen – God is speaking through His Mother, whom He sent to retrieve us from the edge of the pit of hell. All will know this is true very soon, and hopefully will not pridefully turn away from the truth.
The bible tells us, "if it not from God it will end, if it is from God, you will be fighting God Himself." Wise words to meditate upon!
In the lives of the Saints, we often read how they insisted on obedience to the Church, that is, obedience to the Pope and the Bishops in Communion with him. Up to this point, the current local Bishop and his predecssor have judged negatively against the alleged visions and messages at Medjugorje.
While a Catholic may personally disgree with the judgement of the local Bishop, he/she is still obligated and required to submit to the judgement of the Church with practical obedience. A Catholic is free to disagree (the Bishop is not infallible in this matter), but we owe him practical obedience, that is, you may not act against the decree; you may not propagate a revelation that the Bishop has judged negatively, or continue to say publicly that you regard it as genuine. We should consider that a bishop or a Church commission may give a negative verdict for reasons which it cannot state publicly, e.g., it may have found out things against the character of the seer, but will not say so publicly, even though this would justify the decision and help people to accept it.
Mark Johnson
I do believe in Medjugorje and feel very surprised that a
newspaper correspondant does not get the true full infor-
mation and background to be able to speak with the truth.
Tomislav Vlasiv WAS NEVER THE SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR OF THE
VISSIONARIES you got your source wrong.
Nevertheless…it does not mater, he went away and had
nothing more to do with Medjugorje for at least 20 years.
We have been going for 21 years been there 104 times and
can give testimony to the many conversions and spiritually growth of the pilgrims that visit Medjugorje.
Our life changed there…meaning: living our Holy Mass with the real conscience and trying to be a better Christian every day of our post-Medjugorje life.
It is so sad to see the people that are away from Our Lord trying to destroy something that brings THEM back
to HIM.
Peace and Good
Mary Fernandez
My question is, what will happen if Rome decides negatively against Medjugorje? Will Catholics who are currently in favor of it obey Rome? Would a negative judgement from Rome cause some sort of "Marian schism"?
I went to medjugorje Blessed Mother is truly present. She was with me always. I love blessed Mother. Thank u Most mHoly Trinity. sincerely carmen Madala
I have always tried to be a good Catholic and follow all the rules of the church. In the early 80's I started reading about Medjurgorje and became curious. In 2000 I joined a pilgrimage in Denver, Co. I had a wonderful week as if going on a retreat. Many were seeing the phenomena of the sun. I told God I already believed without seeing anything. On our last day there, Oct. 17th, 2000, I saw the sun phenomena and all I could think was "HOW GREAT YOU ARE LORD"! Fatima happened in 1917 and was not approved until 1938. Sincerly, Magdalen
I myself have traveled to Medjugore and If this is not a place that Our Mother is apearing then I don't know that there are any. It is a very Spitual place with Hunderds of conversions and Callings to the Priesthood.It is Mary's Place.
I have been to Medjugorje twice. My most recent trip was last March in 2009 during Lent. I am an obedient daughter of the church and will submit to the authority of the church with regard to Medjugorje et al.
Our Lady is so wonderful. So patient. So full of graces that she wishes to bestow on her children. It is a delight to be present with Our Lady and her angels.
There is peace for all her children. She calls out to us. Let us accept this time of grace and pray for unbelievers in the world who are…according to her revelation at Medjugorje…the source of most of the problems in this world of ours.
Have people forgotten the authority that the Church has to teach and guide Catholics in Jesus' name? Regardless of our "feelings", if the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit says that Medjogorie is not from God then that is the definitive word on the subject. Remember, many things that appear to come from god can come from Satan.
I have been to Medjugorje three times and wish I could go more! My pilgrimage to Medjugorje almost 10 years ago led to my hearing in my heart, the call by our Blessed Mother to pray for priests. I have been doing that and when our Holy Father declared a Year for Priests, that confirmed that I have to remain faithful to this call. Join me in praying for priests. Now more than ever before, they need our prayers.
God bless those who believe and those who dont.
Love and prayers from Sri Lanka
I have a Rosary from medjugorje. thats my entire involvement with it.. so take this for what its worth…
i am however a long time devotee of Padre Pio (now St Pio of Petrelcina. HE was suppressed by Bishops, and lived in obedience to the church even when it meant that he could not say Mass publically, could not hear confessions, etc for many years….. his obedience to this was one of the things that convinced many that his stigmata and visions were true.
If the church says "we do not have any reason to believe this and it cannot be promulgated in this or that way" then OBEY.. and keep praying… and perhaps it will lead to further revelation.
but do recall that the church has seldom said much of any definitive nature on modern day apparations
Our Lady Queen of Peace, Our Lady of Medjugorje, has by her motherly admonitions and guidance blessed my life abundantly. I have been a believer of these apparitions since 1985, I have read many articles for and against Medjugorje, I have debated with many friends about the authenticity of these apparitions. At the end of the day, I believe! The fruits have been to wonderful to ignore. I wonder how many people remember Father Slavko Barbaric. We hear much about this Fr. Vlasic but not much about the saintly Fr. Barbaric. If anyone read his books, read about his life and death they would experience one of the great fruits of Medjugorje. Let us pray and wait! Queen of Peace, pray for us!
This decision will truly polarize Catholics. This is a good thing. Our Faith should not be based upon apparitions whether true or false. Our Faith is based on Christ and his teachings through the Magesterium of the Church alone. I believe, that is one of the reasons the Vatican has hesitated so long on this decision, it will be a weeding out issue…plus the fact that the apparitions are supposedly ongoing, how can they rule on something that is ongoing. what would happen if they rule it 'positive' and then something demonic (God forbid) comes out of these apparitions, it would foolish.
Medjugorje: It's about time to lower the curtain. But what to do about the hundreds of spin-off seers and so-called apparitions?
ivisited medjugore in 1988. Although I considered myself a devout Catholic at the time ,Icame home from medjugore with such joy and strenth in my faith. The miraculous events I witnessed where over wealming. I witnessed the spinning sun,my rosaries turned to gold on the second day of my visit.These events I consider gifts from heaven.No matter what is decided to the validy of Medjugore I still have my heavenly experiences in my heart and I will always be grateful I was on such holy ground. Through Mary to Jesus!
I went twice to Medjugorje and i lost 2 baby boys and after going there i have now 2 baby girls . my sister who never conceived went with her husband and came back pregnant. my brother went once and he keeps on going every year i can t count any more and he now talks only about God. Our Lady changed my family life and mine. I am 100% that the Vatican would not say anything bad about it cause Our Lady loves and prays for the Pope and the Pope does the same and he can never hurt Mother Mary.
Jerry, Adam Tanner has simply reported what Cardinal Puljic told him in an interview in Sarajevo on Tuesday. Puljic said he expects the Vatican to issue guidelines soon — Tanner did not make this up. Would you say Tanner had an agenda if he had decided not to report this? The news has obviously stirred a lot of interest among readers.
i am a Baptist convert to the Catholic church and fruit of Medj. through reading anothers book on the subject. From reading this book it brought me to my knees and brought me Home. For a former Baptist, this was a miracle. Then in 1998, on our Blessed Mothers birthday. Sept 8th, a grace was granted in which i had been most desirous of, to live a celebate life, indeed this was a miracle, and just enjoyed this life and renewed this vow of celebacy of now 11 years with the assistance of my local Bishop. I had lived a life of samesex attraction up to this point for 35 years, 21 of those with a companion, Bob, who just this year passed away, who became my greatest benefactor in urging me to Live my faith, Thanks be to God, Most Holy Trinity, throught the Immaculate Heart of Maty. In J.M.J. ray linton
To start, let us consider some facts;
Prior to 1960 the percentage of U.S. Catholics who attended weekly Mass was around 75%. Today that percentage is (depending on study) between 25-33%.
Over 60% of U.S. Catholics born after 1960 rarely or never attend Mass. Of those Catholics who rarely or never attend Mass, 90% do not believe in the Divine Presence in the Eucharist.
This is the fruit of Vatican II, less and less Catholics believing in the source and summit of the Catholic faith – the Holy Eucharist.
It appears that the Catholic faith could use a stimulus plan, oh wait, they've already received one and her name is Mary. And, she's been leading pilgrims to her Son from obscure parts of the world, such as Medjugorje.
The Catholics who believe in the apparitions of the Blessed Mother are the ones who attend daily Mass, pray a daily rosary, exercise the confessional regularly, participate in Eucharistic adoration and, in general, are the most devout practitioners of the Catholic faith.
This is the fruit of Medjugorje, case after case of reversions and conversions to the Catholic faith, including clergy, even amidst the terrible scandal of rampant acts of perversion within the priesthood.
If the Catholic Church was healthy, then there exists the logic to in suggesting that the reported apparitions of the Blessed Mother could be a trick by the Devil to distract Catholics from appropriately practicing the faith. This acceptance of the visions being from Heaven could place the believer in grave danger. But the truth, the real truth, is that the Church is not healthy. There has not been any expediential growth to the Church since the advent of Vatican II and the percentage of Catholics who practice their faith has declined dramatically since Vatican II. As Catholic Seniors, who represent a high percentage of the most ardent practitioners of the faith, continue to pass away that percentage will continue to decline.
If it were not for the apparitions of the Blessed Mother in Medjugorje (and other locales) the state of the Catholic Church would be much, much, much worse. If it were not for the apparitions of the Blessed Mother Catholics would not see the need to pray the rosary, fast, confess their sins regularly, participate in adoration, and in general, practice their faith.
So, for the sake of argument, what if the "smoke of Satan" had infiltrated the Church and affected the practice of the Catholic faith so that Catholics wouldn't practice their faith and that, say 90 percent, of Catholics thought the Eucharist was purely symbolic. And, then God, witnessing this disaster on earth, sends the Blessed Mother to be the messenger from Heaven to inspire the faithful towards embracing the reality of the Divine Presence in the Eucharist. What might God think if the Church, the Church He established on earth, told those believers, following the direction of the Blessed Mother to seek her Son, to not trust in Her messages, essentially to reject Her? Do you think that God would continue to allow for Her intervention if the Church rejects Her intercession?
Doesn't the thought of the Church rejecting the Blessed Mother sound ill-fated? If there were ever to be a catalyst that might bring about the end of civilization, rejecting the Mother who brought the Savior into the world might suffice.
Why would the Church promote this rejection? It is because Medjugorje presents a conflict of interest to those who ardently prefer the post Vatican II modernization of the Church. Queerly, the visions of the Blessed Mother are being perceived as the work of Satan, in his effort to subjugate the authority of the Church. Apparently, the crafty one, through promotion of Catholic traditionalism and devotion to Sacred Heart of Jesus and Immaculate Heart of Mary, is tricking Catholics into practicing their faith too much and too intensely that it is actually interfering with the direction of the Church.
The serious and legitimate threat that these apparitions impose upon the Church is that at some juncture there might be a message that questions the authority or direction of the Church. The concern is that devotionals (especially lengthy ones) to these apparitions could interfere with the trust that the faithful have for the authority of the Church (See the apparitions at Garabandal).
There is a great deal to discern on the matter, it isn't as cut and dry as one might perceive (because it is our perception which is, and has been, under assault). What seems more logical, that God would allow for Satan to poison the Church or exploit the Blessed Mother? If the Church is preparing to condemn the apparitions at Medjugorje will the visionaries begin to receive their final messages, thus initiating the events in connection to the final harvest/end of times? If the Church doesn't act towards condemning the apparitions does it then provide credence to their legitimacy, thus frustrating opposition to the apparitions within the hierarchy of the Church?
Let us pray, pray, pray that God will grace us with the wisdom to discern the truth.
I believe 100% in the apparitions of Medjuogrje. I have been there seven times and many times have seen the manifestation of God that can not be explained.
I have seen people who have been instantly cured of years of pain after
being prayed over by Vicka. I have seen many conversions that take place in the hearts of pilgrims so much that they come home a different person filled with peace and love and joy. The Bishop of Mostar it is reported, does not agree with even Fatima and that is an approved apparition. Let us wait then for the Vatican Commission to decide as we will all be obedient to the Pope. Our Lady will let him know the truth.Our Lady in Medjugorje calls us to put God first in our lives, to the importance of Holy Mass and the Eucharist, to the importance of reading the Holy Bible daily, to open our hearts when we pray especially the rosary, and to fast on each Wednesday and Friday. Nothing new……isn't that what the Catholic Church has called us to ?
Everyone who does not believe in what comes out of Medjugorje will awaken to the truth.
It doesn't matter what I think. My opinion regarding the authenticity of Medjugorge will not change the reality of this phenomena one way or the other. Neither will the defrocking of one priest, or 100 priests associated with Medjugorge impact whether it's true or not, because if God has been allowing the Mother of Christ to visit this place and affect the lives of millions of people in a way that brings them back to the Faith or deepen their faith in Christ, then no opinion is going to change that. What I do know is that my cousin experienced a renewal of his Catholic Faith at Medjugorge, as did his fallen-away father and sister. Three things are obvious pertaining to this story. Millions more have experienced their own conversion stories at Medjugorge. The visionaries have never altered their accounts of their experiences. If it was all a hoax would not one of them have been exposed by now – 28 years after their first alleged encounter with Mary? If they were all crazy, would not at least one of the countless medical, scientific or paranormal studies performed on them exposed their madness? All these children-turned-adults have done for 28 years is lead people to Christ through Mary. As Christ empowered His Church to bind and loose, so the Church will have the final say. When that day arrives, Her decision will not minimize in the least the spiritual fruit that Medjugorge has produced.
I believe in Medjugorje, but I have a stronger connection to Our Lady of America as mentioned in a previous comment.
Our Lady of America is so much further along in its approval process by the Catholic Church. People should awaken to what the messages from Our Lady of America can teach us about how to resolve the problems we have today.
You want to see the sun spin? Go to Rome City, IN and pray the rosary. If the clouds allow it, you'll see the sun spin. You want healing water? Bring your jugs. It is shooting out of the hillsides and people have reported many healings and spiritual conversions from their visits to this Holy place.
The bishops have given canon approval to this devotion…not to Medjugorje…Yet! Think about it.
Jon in Charlotte,
In condemning the apparitions the Church would not be condemning Our Blessed Mother. There are many other reasons and criteria the Church uses in deciding the authenticity of any apparition, one of these is looking at the visionaries themselves…have they benefited materially from this? …Among many others.
Regarding the growth of the Church, you are also confused on this issue. The Church has grown exponentially in Africa and in Asia as well as Latin America, including South America (Brazil). So, please get your facts before you write your own agenda.
Look, We all love the Blessed Virgin Mary…She is our Mother …The Mother of the Church. Whether or not the decision is positive or negative does not detract that the Church is the TRUE Church founded by Jesus and led by the Pope. Let us not let this issue cloud our spiritual vision.
God Bless us.
This article mentions the scandal of Fr. Vlasic but doesn't give any context, just an association with Medjugorje. Buried in the Catholic News Service article referenced by this piece is the fact that Fr. Vlasic left Medjurgorje in the mid-1980's …
So,what year is it now? How long ago did he leave? For the math challenged, that is over 24-25 years ago … quite a long time … and he was only there in the parish for 1 1/2-2 1/2 years. His influence was marginal. For those interested in the truth of that story, do some more research … I've read a very full and oomplete accounting that situation (I can't tell you right now the website … but he sought to capitalize on Medjugorje, even falsely claiming that the Blessed Virgin Mary authorized/endorsed his community … he was publicly refuted by one of the Medj. visionaries who said that was absolutely not true. The guy has proven to be a scoundrel (May God have mercy on his soul) … so it is absolutely unfair and untrue to judge Medjugorje by any association with this character.
On the positive side, Pope John Paul II told friends that he went to Medjugorje every day in prayer. When asked about the appropriateness of people going there, he rhetorically asked (knowing the answer), "Are people praying there, are people fasting there, are people converting there, returning to the sacraments there? … Well, let them go." There have been many religious and priestly vocations that have come out of contact with Medjugorje. "Can a rotten tree bear good fruit? … No, a good tree bears good fruit." "By their fruits, you shall know them." I had the privelege of sitting within 10 feet (probably 5′) of one of the visionaries on her first trip to America … on an overnight TransAtlantic flight … she was prayerful, fun, completely normal and wholesome … I'm grateful for having been so close to her for that period of time.
There's no question in my mind that these young people now older are authentic and credible … the real question and challenge is … what are we doing with the messages which they have passed on to us? Are we taking them seriously? Are we living them? That's why true prophets are hated … because they call us to conversion, to change, to repent, to turn away from sin, materialism, comfort seeking and to turn back to God and His will, His way … and we don't want to do that … we're in a rut and prefer to stay that way.
I, like many who have responded to this article, am disappointed that the author of this same article couldn't get his story straight….No, Fr. Vlasic was never the visionaries spiritual director…Yes, I have been to Medugorje three times, the last time in the 90's…and would go back again if called by the Blessed Mother…I, like many others, have seen miracles happen there and happen to me personally…I thoroughly believe Our Mother is there in a special way..but, I also know she is always with us everywhere we invite her in…I personally don't think the Vatican will rule on this site before the visions have stopped…but if they do and it should be negative, I would adhere to their ruling, as I am a Catholic who believes in the Magesterium of our Church…but, in my heart I will always believe what I have seen and how it changed my life and the lives of those I know who have been there…God is still in charge and He always knows what to do in all situations…Praise God and His Most Precious Mother…Harriet Algren
This to me has always been suspicious and I feel that our lady does not need to appear daily and i mean daily for over 25 years to 6 people. I feel that all lot of the messages repeat themselves and have a human touch to them. Its always Dear Children, hmmn well there is a lot of MONEY involved here and the 6 seers are doing very nicely thank you very much.Furthermore how many of them have taken holy orders?
Lucia who saw our lady in fatima became a nun and remained so until she died.
I suspect these people are riding on the back of the TRUE apparitions and eventually they will be caught out and what ever happens the TRUTH always comes out in the wash especialy with OUR LADY if they have been misleading the faithful i would not like to be in their shoes.
The Imaaculate Heart of Mary will Triumph what ever happens.
A pilgrimmage to Medjugorje in 1987 totally changed my life. I will never forget the infused knowledge of the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist that went through me as I witnessed the miracle of the sun. Today twenty two years later, I still am convicted that nothing is more important than to receive Jesus in the Eucharist as often as possible and to pray the rosary, fifteen decades at least, every day. I was raised Quaker, not Catholic. For a long time I was Catholic only to please my in-laws. Medjugorje changed all that, forever!
I have been fortunate to go to medjugorje 7 times,
The last visit. I made friends with a college teacher' who was there with his family [under protest]we sat together at dinner, and every day we walked up the mountain, he was more interested in his hobby [the sky stars formation]with his home made binoculars
and his attitude was flippant' directed towards the priest and devotees in medjugorje.
The last night there,I left him on the mountain, to take his wife and sister-in-law back down to the hotel.
Next morning he was changed' he told us with tears in his eyes, that the blessed mother appeared to him, why me…why me, he kept on saying.
This man now has become a deacon, and has changed out of all recognition.
this story was published on the web
I didn't have to go to Medjugorje to believe she is appearing there. My pilgrimage and conversion of heart happened at home after reading a book in the early 90's my Mom gave me on Medjugorje with a photo of Mary on the cover. One of the Blessed Mother's messages was she wanted people to also join prayer groups and to pray for the youth. I joined a prayer group through the parish here and continue to go to mass and pray the rosary. I have discerned the signs of the times, no doubt we are living in a truly remarkable times. Pray, Pray, Pray! Praise be Jesus, thank you Mother Mary.
There's no business like religious business: Vicka, Maria, Ivan, Jacov, etc. are exploiting this in a very convincing way.
Praying to God and always expecting or an answer or a sign is not "believing" in the way Jezus meant it to be.
It doesn't differ from the faith a young child has in Santa: "if I'm good, I will receive". That's a very childish approach to being a Christian.
A French philosopher once said: "you have to live as there was no God".
You must be good, not because there could be a God, but simply because you want to be good.
I've been to Med once and I can assure you: it's really a place where you have to go if you want to lose your Faith.
I went to Medjugorge as a favour to someone else.
I arrived as a confirmed atheist.
After two weeks I left as a believer, ministered to by God's love, having truly accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour.
If it is God's will, I will be ordained in the Spring of 2010.
Yes, I guess you could say I believe that there's something happening there. Are there excesses? Undoubtedly, just as there are in Fatima, Lourdes or Rome. More money-grubbing pilgrimage packagers than you could shake a stick at.
But the true pilgrim will not go for the spinning suns or unexpected frangrance of roses. He or she will go to find a place where God shows Godself to the open heart, where it is possible to "be still, and know that I am God."
May the peace of the Lord be with you all.
Padre Pio – the false one below – is a way off. Not only did this "French Philosopher" say what you say he said – but Buddha (or some incarnation of him did).
If one examines the call of the messages from Medjugorje – they are good for the faith. Fasting, prayer, conversion, confession…..those all nurture faith. I don't expect to get into some conversation to make you or any other carnally obedient individual to understand that. However, for those who have been there with the understanding that with faith – you get the grace out of something for what faith you put into it – then you know what I am talking about. I have never personally been myself – but have seen others and the witness to the site that their lives portray. Padre Pio, go again. This time seek solely to do God's will instead of going with your discriminatory judgment. For you will get out of it, what you put into it.
Are things happening in Medjugorje? Yes, I have been there and did see the sun pulsate, casting off hues of pink and blue. I also smelled roses during Ivan's "apparition" and heard a few people on the tour swear the links in their Rosaries turned gold. However, Satan has the power to deceive and that is what I believe is happening in Medjugorje. Like the Protestant Reformation, Medjugorje is DIVIDING the Church – not uniting it. The promoters of Medjugorje in the U.S. and in Bosnia are mostly followers of the charismatic movement which is a Protestant movement. For those who truly believe in Medjugorje, I advise to you study the "messages" and compare them with the ones delivered in Fatima, Guadeloupe and Lourdes. I think you'll find that Our Lady had messages that were brief yet powerful and not in contradiction to Catholic teaching. Study how the seers at those approved apparitions behaved when they were doubted and questioned initially by their priests and bishops. Study how they (unlike the Medjugorje seers) choose lives of service to God through vocations rather than self-promotion and greed. If the Vatican over-rules the Bishops of Mostar then I will accept but when you take a good hard look at Medjugorje v/s approved apparitions, you have to question how much grace is really there.
As a once adamant defender of Medjugorje, I am now a confirmed skeptic. There are "miracles" there I'm sure, just as rosaries turned gold at the now condemned apparition site of Bayside, NY. The problems are not in the "signs and wonders" at Medjugorje–I believe they are there, and I believe the children, now adults, really see something. The problem is not in Medjugorje's 95% "good fruits," its in the watering-down of the faith the Martyrs died for. The faith is relative there. The "Gospa" says that all "religions are dear to my Son," and "Christ rules over each religion." This is relativism–the very thing destroying the Church right now. Insidious as it is, the very same feature animating Medjugorje right now, might in the end bring negative fruits ten times worse than the positive fruits there.
I have visited Medjourje in 1990 and met 2 of the children who said they had received visions of the Virgin Mary. What I saw of the town was, to me, at least partial proof of the visons. I say this because I saw such spiritual people that I have not seen anywhere else in the world. People working in the fields were praying the rosary while they worked. They used the tools with one hand and with the other held the rosary beads to pray. The church there was filled everyday for every Mass. The many, many priests who were present in the village were kept busy all day hearing confessions. Everywhere people were openly praying.
My personal experience was very enlightening for me. When I decided to go, I wasn't sure what to expect; but when I came home some 10 days later, I was a changed person. My husband was terminally ill at the time and I was fighting to hold on to my faith. What I prayed for while there was the grace to accept God's will and for God to help remain faithful to the Catholic faith through all of the situation at home. I wasn't expecting a miracle cure for my husband or anything like that.
But when I arrived at home, I found that I was much more serene and calm. More importantly, my husband was calmer also and seemed to have accepted that his case was terminal. He asked me to call our parish priest. When Father came, he and my husband talked privately for quite awhile. Afterwards, Father told me, "Don't worry; Jerry will be alright now." Nine months later, my husband joined his parents in heaven. I witnessed his prayful life from my return until he died.
Do I believe in the visions there? Most definitely because I know how they affected me and my husband. I pray that the Vatican will at least be open to the possiblity and continue to investigate the situation.
God bless you all and, on this feast of the Most Holy Rosary, I will pray the Rosary a second time today for this.
Damien: the messages have a "human touch"? Well, Mary was and is human and the messages are meant for humans. What would you expect? Of course they are repeating b/c we are still not listening. A patient mother is repeating her entreaties over and over and over b/c we are not getting the message.
And so what if the visionaries are ok financially? They aren't rich. They are raising and supporting families, which last I checked was a viable vocation. If they were out committing adultery and taking mistresses, well then i would be concerned.
Anyone who has been to Medjugorje or even read the text of the messages should have no doubt that they are not contrary to Church teachings. The Vatican has not ruled on the veracity of the apparitions, but i believe in my heart they are true as i am allowed to.
Prayer, Holy Mass, conversion, fasting, return to Christ, etc etc. How are these bad things? Not one apparition of thousands is contrary to any Church teaching. Zero.
The only suspicious thing is the intensity with which the anti-Medjugorje people are attacking it. They take the same tired liberties with the facts. I would bet my life savings that most of the scornful critics have never met any of the visionaries and probably have never even read the messages. Like the local Bishop.
BLESSED BE GOD FOR SENDING US THE BLESSED MOTHER AND THESE MESSAGES IN THESE END TIMES! BLESSED BE JESUS, BLESSED BE THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE CONSOLER, BLESSED BE MARY, THE GREAT MOTHER OF GOD, AND BLESSED BE ALL GOD'S ANGELS, CHILDREN AND HIS CREATION! MAY HIS KINGDOM COME SOON AS WE PRAY IN THE Our Father EVERY DAY — AND MAY HE CONTINUE TO BE MERCIFUL IN HIS CHASTISEMENTS WHICH ARE EXTREMELY NECESSARY AS THE WORLD IS SINKING MORE AND MORE INTO DARKNESS — CLEANSING IS NEEDED — WOULD YOU WANT JESUS (OUR LOVE) TO COME INTO THIS MESS — NO THE HEARTS OF MEN AND THE WORLD MUST BE CLEANSE AND CHANGED SO THAT HE CAN COME AND THAT WILL TAKE GREAT ACTS OF GOD — WE AS DISOBEDIENT CHILDREN WILL FIND IT VERY PAINFUL– IF THE MOTHER OF GOD REPEATS HERSELF IT IS BECAUSE WE ARE SO WILLFUL — BUT THE WHOLE WORLD WILL SUFFER —
Please provide examples of Medjugorje messages that are contrary to Church teachings. My bet is you can find none at all. And enough with the attacks on the visionaries b/c they chose marriage and family. Is that not allowed by God?
Medjugorje is a holy place. So many come to their spiritual sense there. By whose power to they return to the faith. By whose power was Rita Klaus cures of her illness? the power of God or the power of Beezebub?
The question must be answered.
Like those who believed in Padre Pio even when he was condemned as a fraud by Bishops and other clergy, I believe Medjugorje is an extraordinary gift from heaven. I have been there and a few times and it was sheer joy to pray there with those who lov our Blessed Mother.
My own prediction is that the Vatican statement will be moderate – as it can only be – no confirmation can yet be given while the phenomenon continues – but no condemnation yet either.
The Medjurgorjie apparations are about MESSAGES to help us live our life in this world. It is a call from God to come back to him. Miracles, the like of what you read about that happen at Medjurgorjie only happen when God touches someone. It is a SIGN of God presence.
Some people LACK faith and try to justify their behavior; READ all the messages and see if what is conveyed is the TRUTH. Pray for discernment first to see the truth.
p.s. If this is Satanic deception I am having difficulty seeing what his goal is here. Satan is not an idiot, so what would he gain from leading many people to prayer and conversion? The messages involve going to Mass, fasting, prayer, conversion, coming back to Jesus. There are massive lines for Reconciliation and countless people attending adoration and mass, saying rosaries up and down the mountain. Odd strategy for Satan.
And this is not dividing the Church. The people who do believe are allowed to do so and get great benefit from Medjugorje in every case i have heard (and experienced). Catholics who do not believe, also allowed, in my opinion are missing out but we know that everything needed for salvation is contained within the existing Church. So they are not sacrificing salvation by not believing. No harm, no foul. So what's the issue?
Here's a "message" that should give a Catholic with a properly formed conscience pause:
"In God's eyes, there are no divisions and there are no religions. You in the world have made the divisions…"
Authentic message from the Blessed Mother or nod to the false ecumenism of the modernists?
Also, someone compared the Medjugorje "seers" to Padre Pio. Well, here's one VERY critical difference: Padre Pio submitted to Church authority, always. And, he always told others to do the same thing. Even when he thought the Church authorities were wrong…even when he KNEW they were wrong. He still submitted to Church authority. Same for St. Teresa of Avila, etc. The spirit of Medjugorje sometimes seems to be one of rebellion against Church authority. That alone is enough to make me not want to jump on the bandwagon.
I am perfectly content to await the judgment of Holy Mother Church, knowing that Her discernment is vastly superior to my own as an individual. Anyone who believes that his or her own private discernment is superior to that of the Church is not Catholic. It is really as simple as that.
It was reading Wayne Weible's column in 1988 that slowly led me back into the Church. I have been to Medjugorje in 2006 and I can't say enough about it. Once you visit, there will be a longing in your soul to always come back to the "oasis" of peace, love, and spiritual presence. There are many great comments before me but I would like to add that if I were not in my present state of life which God has chosen, I would go back there in a flash and be satisfied living as a pauper dependent in total on the grace from God for my well being. Ad Deum!
Such Inaccuracies,
Firstly Fr Thomislav Vlasic was NOT defrocked; He refused to obey orders from the Vatican to obey his superiors.
He was NEVER Spiritual Advisor to ANY of the six Medjugorje visionaries despite this false claim of his.
Furthermore, he was assigned to Medjugorje for a period of just 4 years,having been reassigned to another Parish by his Superiors in 1984.
Not long after, he moved to Italy to form his own religious community with a German woman who is a lay person.
At this point his Superior General became the Friar in the Italian Province where Fr Tomislav now resided.
Fr Tomislav Vlasic steadfastly refused to give up the group, the German woman or to acknowledge the Vatican's request for his obedience to his superiors.
Neither did he respond to the charges made against him.
He failed to comply with orders from The Holy See to cease preaching or teaching the faithful his own mysticism, false doctrines,etc.
He was also charged with offences {contra sixtum]where he
had been accused by his superiors of being in breach of the 6th commandment, and therefore his Priestly vows of celibacy.
After two serious letters were sent to Fr Tomislav Vlasic by the Vatican regarding aforementioned, Tomislav stubbornly refused to acknowledge or respond to the charges.
Finally Fr Tomislav Vlasic wrote to the Holy Father Pope Benedict 16th REQUESTING TO BE RELEASED FROM HIS PRIESTLY VOWS.
The Holy Father GRANTED THE REQUEST OF FR. VLASIC.
Since 1985 the former Fr Tomislav Vlasic has not been answerable to the Friar General of the Franciscan House in Bosnia but to the Friar General of the Province in Italy where he was residing.
Fr Vlasic had ABSOLUTELY NO INVOLVEMENT in Medjugorje since 1985 and the Franciscans there had no involvement with,nor news from him.
All the above stated can be confirmed easily by the Friar
General of the Franciscan House in Bosnia.
For those seeking the truth confirmation of these facts is easy.
For those seeking to push an agenda contrary to seeking the truth no amount of factual evidence will be enough.
Medjugorje is clearly and indisputably the Work of God.
The fruits in the parish and around the world from the more than 30 million pilgrims is clearly good.
Many have been converted, grown fervent in faith, been healed spiritually and physically and have experienced the "Peace of heaven on the earth" in Medjugorje. I am blessed to be one of them.
In God's time all will be clear and like many millions of others I have no doubt Medjugorje will indeed be given full recognition by the Holy See as the fountain of God's Mercy which it is.
As for Bishop Ratko Peric who was a fervent believer in the beginning and now pours distain on Medjugorje at every opportunity I would say this;
Is the Bishop so blind he cannot see the "Light",of his own Diocese illuninating the whole world?
God alone knows the reason for the Bishop's darkness.
For all who believe and have been to Medjugorje, all who have not been but believe, we have the Blessed Mother's assurance that the coming "Acts of God" will leave no more doubt about the truth of Medjugorje for believer and unbeliever alike.
Please provide the date of the message that you quoted. I don't think it's correct, but i could be wrong. Following is a message from Medjugorje and it does not support the supposed quote you gave.
October 1, 1981
Are all religions good?
"Members of all faiths are equal before God. God rules over each faith just like a sovereign over his kingdom. In the world, all religions are not the same because all people have not complied with the commandments of God. They reject and disparage them."
I think most people agree with your statement that they will comply with what the Church decides. Thus far, the Church has not ruled against Medjugorje in any way. We are perfectly free to believe or not.
Have any of you ever heard of Our Blessed Mother causing the members of her Son's Church to disagree.
Please get real people, what you are been told at Medjugorje are the basics of your Roman Catholic faith.
Do your priests at home not teach these things to you!
Why do you need to travel to Medjugorje to learn of the necessity to confess your sins regularly? Have your priests not already told you that!
Ivan's property dealings have just recently been published on a website. Did you know he was able to pay back an $800,000 bank loan in six months in 2004 not bad for someone that doesn't even hold down a job?
I just returned from Medjugorje a little over two weeks ago. The erroneous picture this article paints of Medjugorje doesn't even come close to what actually going on in Medjugorje. Medjugorje is a 'school of prayer' as often said by the late Fr. Slavko Barbaric.. Medjugorje is drawing many people into a deeper and more intimate Faith in Christ.
The negativity that surrounds Medjugorje is just that! It 'surrounds' Medjugorje but it is NOT Medjugorje.. As mentioned already, Fr Thomislav Vlasic was never a spiritual director to the six visionaries nor had a direct and personal role in the happenings of Medjugorje.
The reason evil seems to surround Medjugorje is because it wants to destroy what Our Lady is trying to accomplish, which evidently, is to bring Her children, the children of the Church back to Christ, and to the Mystical Body of Christ which IS the Church..
I continue to pray..
Please remember Lourde, Fatima and so many apparition shrine that have been also critisized as such. Try to stop people to go, put the seer in prison ect….. But at the end (many years to come )It survive all, the question is WHY ???? because it is The Queen of Heaven that win always at the end.
This article is full of false statements. Ten Franciscans were never removed or sent away. Father Tomislav, who is only human, was distanced from Medjugorje more than 20 years ago, the visionaries themselves did so. The Vatican has never had a "skeptical viewpoint" of the apparitions at Medjugorje. It would have shut it down almost 30 years ago when it started if there was anything false about it. The Vatican has consistently allowed pilgrims, including Church hierarchy, to go to this beautiful village for pilgrimage. Medjugorje has the support of millions of laity, thousands of priests, and hundreds of devout cardinals and bishops and illegedly Pope John Paul II. The positive fruits of Medjugorje are there: conversions, vocations, lives being changed but the media always focuses on the few negative aspects which are prevalent everywhere and in everything in this world! Why are people so cynical? If you don't believe in it fine but stop bashing Medjugorje with a serious lack of journalistic integrity. If the Church in Rome says for people to not go there, I would ofcourse respect and obey but I would continue to believe in my heart. I know God is giving us this last chance through His Mother Mary and her apparitions and articles like this throw this back in His face. We have lost our faith!
my concern is if the vatican rules against how many souls will lose their faith feel they have been duped is this the evil ones plan
i have been once had a great time but wont go back until the church rules
Lake J:
You asked for examples of messages that contradict the Church so here you go…
"The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God and that people have enforced unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect other religions as well." There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church and that has been Church dogma since day one.
"The Madonna said that religions are separated in the earth, but the people of all religions are accepted by her Son." So Jesus accepts Islam, the New Age Movement and the Wiccans? I don't think so.
"The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son." Well Wiccan is a religion so are we to believe that Our Lord and Our Lady have a fondness for witchcraft?
"I do not dispose of all graces.. Jesus prefers that you address your petitions directly to him, rather than through an intermediary." This message, allegedly from Our Lady, basically disregards the need to say the Rosary (Hail Mary full of grace…) or respect sainthood.
"Tell the Father Bishop (Zanic) that I request his urgent conversion to the events of the Medjugorje parish…I am sending him the penultimate warning. If he is not converted, or will not be converted, my judgment as well as that of my Son Jesus will strike him." Our Lady does not talk like this. She never told Bernadette of Lourdes or Lucia of Fatima to tell their skeptical bishops to convert or else.
I know that all apparitions are ultimately judged by their fruits and accuracy of their prophecies. The Rawandian messages have been officially accepted by the Church due to the genocide events of 1991 occurring that were described in the apparitions of 1984. These apparitions began during the same year as Medjugourge. I truly believe there will be a time when the Church declares these apparitions as authentic — unfortunately, that time may be after the events (secrets) occur as in Rawanda.
[…] me but I would like to add that if I were not in my present state of …. View original here: FaithWorld » Blog Archive » Vatican ruling on disputed Medjugorje … Posted in Jesus Will Answer | Tags: always-come, are-living, pray-the-rosary, Present, […]
If so many people, including myself, come back to GOD, then their must be something to it. The devil has been against us since the 1st apparition.
I have read some of these messages and they are all so blessed. They have been touched with the love of our Blessed Mother, who leads us to Her Son. I have been twice and it has also changed my life. I long to go back one day….Medjugorje has changed alot of lives. My prayers is that the Vatican will see what an awesome place Medjugorje is. Dear Lord hear all the prayers of the faithful. Maybe, we could all start a Rosary Novena for the Vatican to approve this wonderful spiritual place.
God Bless, Linda
Note that this article is just a (personal) weblog of one of the Reuters correspondents. It is not a news report from Reuters and should not be referred to as such. It did not come through the board of editors to be launched as an official news article from Reuters. Note that it says "After observing events sceptically for many years, the Vatican …" Everyone who knows what John Paul II and the then cardinal Ratzinger as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, now pope Benedict, have said about Medjugorje, knows that this is far from the truth. The verdict over Medjugorje (the right to speak as a church person over Medjugorje) has already long been taken out of the hands of the bishops of Mostar and recently Sarajevo and put in the hands of the Vatican itself. So whatever these bishops say about Medjugorje, it does not matter anymore, only what the Vatican says matters.
I went to Medjugorje in the early fall of 1992. I am from the U.S. but I went with a group from Canada. I went right at the exact time the war broke out. I remember a night in Medjugorje when we sat in a dark staircase praying the rosary because there was a blackout in the village due to a bombing threat from the air. It was scary and uncertain during that night. But my week there was a very deep spiritual event in my life. We had a private audience with Vicka, one of the visionaries, who had an appraition while we were there. My faith became deeper; my prayer life became stronger; my love for Jesus grew more than ever. I had a reconciliation with many things in the confessional there. I often look back on my experiences from Medjugorie as great. If the Catholic Church debunks the visions, it will not shake my faith and experiences I took from that great week. Once you are touched profoundly in a deep spiritual sense, it is nearly impossible to shake one's faith. I will always charish my time with God in Medjugorie.
I know what I seen, and no one can say I did not
see the sun spinning, and changing beautiful colors. I
also seen a woman foat up the stairs on Cross Mountain after the last station. She made it up that mountain
by the Grace Of God. The apparitions are what brought
me this Holy Place.
John T. Koszalka
Lindenhurst, New York
To those who believe no proof is necessary and to those who don't believe no proof is enough.
Our Lady DID NOT say that all religions are the same.
This is relativism; a modern day spiritual death-trap.
Certainly the Mother Of God is not a relativist.
Our Lady said;
All men are born equal in the sight of God.
Man caused the divisions in the faith not God.
Our other Christian brothers and sisters, Muslim, Jewish.
Hindu etc are also much loved by God and are destined one day to return to the House of The Father.
We are to love them and respect them.
Our Lady also stated that all religions are NOT THE SAME.
They power of prayer differs in each of them.
The Holy Mass is the "greatest prayer on earth".
We cannot understand it's greatness.
Also Blessed Mary told the Visionaries that if the choice was to go to Holy Mass or see Her in an apparition, they should always choose The Holy Mass.
This should speak volumes to all Catholics and all people God and of goodwill
Regardless of what Rome rules, many are praying and
giving adoration to our GOD and Majestic KING !!
In fact this article is filled with false statements about Medjugorje. For example: Fr. Vlasic was never the visionaries' spiritual director and the Vatican would have shut down the site a long time ago if they believed it was a hoax. They are investigating and people should be humble and pray that Our Lady will enlighten the investigation commission to the result that She wants not to be bringing false statements and hatred about the site. Much good in terms of conversions and reconciliation has come from the messages and visits to Medjugorje and that is NOT the work of the devil. The devil does not reconcile and does not bring people to God. Many lives have been touched in a beautiful way and the lives of the ones they affect have been touched as well. Many members of the clergy including exorcist priests have visited and celebrated the sacraments there. They would know if that is the work of the devil and would be the first ones to speak up against it if they did not believe it was from God. The comment by "Lake J" do not have a date or a source. Humm! Where did he get that from? Perhaps from an anti-Medjugorje web site? Those are full of lies and misconceptions. I would advise anyone to do a better research before believing these skeptics who are full of self-rightousness and full of pride. They think that because they are good Catholics they don't need to respect the work the Lord is doing in the world to bring those away back to the Church. We all need conversion of the heart before we can walk fully in the commandments of the Lord. Pride blinds people to see the work of God. Skeptics made Bernadeth (Lourdes), Francisco, Lucia and Jacinta (Fatima), Alphonsine (Kibeho) suffer much and made all sort of false accusations. But the Lord showed to all through the approval by the Church years later that they were true prophets used by Our Lady to bring people back to the Lord. The only one interested in destroying the good work in Medjugorje is Satan. Do not be part of his work. If you do not believe in Medjugorje, be humble and wait silently and in prayer for the Vatican's ruling, but do not bring your pre-judgement into the picture and do not advance lies. The ruling on Medjugorje is the job of the Vatican, not of the laity. People are free to believe in the messages as long as they are not condemned, and as of today they are not condemned by the Church. The Bible said we should not despise prophecy and we should use our discernment based on Scripture and the Magisterium. As for me, I have not found anything against the Church's teachings and I believe Medjugorje is true and I am so happy the Blessed Mother is doing this beautiful work.
Hail the Queen of Peace
The Peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Our Savior and King be with you always.
Has the virgin Mary been appearing–NO. Those Christians who actually pay any attention to THE lasting word God given us so we can know about if people come back and give us message or not–the Bible–know that it teaches that when we die, we rest and then at the end of days we will be resurrected for judgment and rewards (for the faithful). Mary like ALL OTHERS who die in Christ is not in any way, shape, or form aware of whats going on here on earth, nor are they able to communicate with us. But the RCC has been spreading this lie of Mary's visiting and sending messages for centuries–now people believe she appears on potato chips and screen doors too. She, as a faithful,saved, believer is simply awaiting the end of days so she can receive her reward like the rest of the faithful, as that is what God has told us happens through HIS MESSAGE to us, THE BIBLE. But this is a book that unfortunately the RCC continually contradicts with teachings such as the one talked about here.
I believe Medjugorje is one of the greatest graces our Lord has given us in these times. He said to St. Faustina that this is his time of mercy and that his time of justice is coming. Medjugorje is a major part of the mercy God is giving to this world that has strayed so far from his commandments. Medjugorje, via our Lady Queen of Peace, is a great source of conversion (and divine peace) to those who open themselves even a little to the graces God wishes to bestow on us. Pope John Paul the Great was one of those strong supporters of Medjugorje and I believe our present Pope Benedict is likewise.
My friend Andrew, I'm afraid I don't agree with your interpretations:
"The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God and that people have enforced unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect other religions as well." There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church and that has been Church dogma since day one.
((We are still called to respect other religions and their followers. Church dogma does not say to have no respect for other religions, just that Catholicism is the final say of religious truth. John Paul II said almost the same thing here: http://www.romancatholicism.org/jpii-aud ience.htm))
"The Madonna said that religions are separated in the earth, but the people of all religions are accepted by her Son." So Jesus accepts Islam, the New Age Movement and the Wiccans? I don't think so.
((She said "the people" of all religions, not the religion itself. Big difference. God loves all people, even Wiccans and New Agers))
"The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son." Well Wiccan is a religion so are we to believe that Our Lord and Our Lady have a fondness for witchcraft?
((I would offer that her definition of religion does not include Wicca. I doubt John Paul II was referring to Satanism when he made his quote that I linked above….Summarising the theological vision of Vatican II, the Secretariat for Non-Christians (later renamed the Pontifical Commission for Interreligious Dialogue) declared in 1984:The Fathers of the Second Vatican Council . . . affirm that in the religious traditions of non-Christians there exist "elements which are true and good" (LG, 16), "precious things, both religious and human" (GS, 92), "seeds of contemplation" (AG, 18), "elements of truth and grace" (AG, 9), "seeds of the Word" (AG, 11; 15), and "rays of that truth which illumines all humankind" (NA, 2). According to explicit conciliar indications, these values are found and preserved in the great religious traditions of humanity. …..this does not include every belief system that the government might call religion))
"I do not dispose of all graces.. Jesus prefers that you address your petitions directly to him, rather than through an intermediary." This message, allegedly from Our Lady, basically disregards the need to say the Rosary (Hail Mary full of grace…) or respect sainthood.
((Sir, please. Mary says countless times in Medjugorje that the Rosary is one of the greatest prayers to say. Addressing to Jesus directly is also a good thing))
"Tell the Father Bishop (Zanic) that I request his urgent conversion to the events of the Medjugorje parish…I am sending him the penultimate warning. If he is not converted, or will not be converted, my judgment as well as that of my Son Jesus will strike him." Our Lady does not talk like this. She never told Bernadette of Lourdes or Lucia of Fatima to tell their skeptical bishops to convert or else.
((Maybe she felt that harsher words were needed in this case b/c this Bishop is on a personal crusade to attack the apparitions. This is not against Church teaching, it is just your opinion of what Mary would say or not say))
The message that really counts is God's message and you have several hundred pages of messages from Him that you can carry with/keep with you 24/7 and refer to, more than you will be able to plumb the depths of in a lifetime. Go there for messages from God, He wants to reveal them to you–if you will give what HE has to say, GOD, what I repeat, G O D has to say, first place in your mind and heart and not go looking for the supernatural in the form of Mary–who is at peace and rest in the Kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit (God the Spirit) brings, conveys to the reborn believer what God has to say, not a person who died and is at rest.
People raised to new life in Heaven are not "at rest" are they? Sounds like a funeral.
In reality, though, of course the Bible is the word of God which is what Catholicism teaches. After all, the Catholic Church compiled the Bible, yes? And the Catholic Church still retains the ability to interpret it, which is where Protestantism and their 30,000 schisms confuses the issue.
It is not right or spiritual healthy exert these opinions for none of you have the authority to make this decision. Neither should you lose your confidence in the your conversion to the Catholic Church nor should the atheist loose his/her gift Or power of his Christain faith. As fruitful as Medjugore as been no appariation has authority to invoke the church directions or teachings that is reserved alone to the Bishops and the ultimately the Pope the Vicar of Christ. The churches ascent is required: for what she binds heaven will also bind. Also did not heaven sort Mary's yes so that salvation may become a reality…do you know if she said no there would not be Christ the salvation plan would not be. We have by divine providence always have from our Jewish breathren been patriarchal with one head…all these head exerting options without authority will create a medusa a monster…you know as lovers of Christ obedience and humility is the foundation of all virtue…the same virtues echoed my Mary as the Annunciation. Why have you lovers of Christ failed to echo the same humilty and obedience to this upcoming decisions from the Vatican. What other approved visionary you know of abandon their level of poverty at their poverty? Or sort out focus of attn or celebrity status? Or conflict with teaching of the church or dogma? If these are allegations but innocent is not your decision. The authority of the church is to love God and the faithful… Did not the Lord ask peter 3 times without apology to ascertain the single motives of all the churches acts…to the point of hurting his feelings! Do not think the Lord did not no he will hurt his feeling… This is done to assure the motive is the Love of God: the truth the way the life and the protection andfeeding of the sheep: the faithful. So good works in itself also has nothing to do with the vatican's decision… Works in itself is not the all in all. Even wonders and signs are not the determinate..this element was also eliminated by Christ words. You have nothing to worry: heaven is bound whether right or wrong…if heaven is silenced it does so in obedience and humility just as Christ comes to the altar by the call of the priest…equally the servant of servants of God must comply with the Holy Spirit and it's Head. Just like it is sinful and rude to insinuate oneself between husband and wife it is equally sinful to insinuate oneself between Bridegroom(Christ) and Bride(His Church). So I exhort all to cease these discussions to be odedient humble and holy like all good saints and approved apparitions…obedience to one's superiors in all except sin is a virtue that will never condemn. Our Lady insists…did she not say do whatever He tells you. May the peace of Christ be with all of you.
All messages of the apparition of Medjugorje, from 1981 until 1988 from the book of marialogian Rene Laurentin and from 1988 until now from www.medjugorje.hr, are on my webpage www.medjugorje.eu/messages/ . It is one large saveable, printable and searchable Internet page. It includes the following messages:
Written questions asked of the seers: "Are all religions good?"
All religions are similar before God. God rules over them just like a sovereign over his kingdom. In the world, all religions are not the same because people have not complied with the commandments of God. They reject and disparage them. (On this ambiguous response see annex 2.)
"Are all churches the same?"
In some, one prays to God more. In others, less. That depends on the priests who motivate others to pray. That also depends on the power which they have.
Published by Kraljevic (1983):
Messages approximately grouped on Ecumenism (see annex#2):
In God differences do not exist among his people; religion need not separate people. Every person must be respected, despite his or her particular profession of faith.
God presides over all religions, as a king controls his subjects, through his priests and ministers. The sole mediator of salvation is Jesus Christ.
Do differences exist among the believers of different churches? (A question asked in reference to a certain Protestant community.)
It is not equally efficacious to belong to or pray in any church or community, because the Holy Spirit grants his power differently among the churches and ministers. All believers do not pray the same way. It is intentional that all apparitions are under the auspices of the Catholic Church. (K.59).
Published by Castella – Ljubic (1984-85):
On the matter of a Catholic priest, confused because of the cure of an Orthodox child:
Tell this priest, tell everyone, that it is you who is divided on earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, for the same reason as Catholics, are equal before my Son and me. You are all my children. Certainly, all religions are not equal, but all men are equal before God, as St. Paul says. It does not suffice to belong to the Catholic Church to be saved, but it is necessary to respect the commandments of God in following one's conscience.
Those who are not Catholics, are no less creatures made in the image of God, and destined to rejoin someday, the House of the Father. Salvation is available to everyone, without exception. Only those who refuse God deliberately, are condemned. To him, who has been given little, little will be asked for. To whomever has been given much (to Catholics) , very much will be required. It is God alone, in His infinite justice, Who determines the degree of responsibility and pronounces judgment. (C 128).
Neither do you need to be concerned about somehow the decsion by the Vatican is an evil act. First the Holy Spirit guides the ways of the Church: did not Caiphas, the High Priest, condemn Jesus and plotted against and he was under influence of the Holy Spirit when he said it is better fir one man to die than many…even if it is an evil act as stated did not Jesus himself said the gates of Hell will never prevailed against her: His Church. So you see it is no need to be concern of these matters. No need to loose faith, to good hope, or love or graces that have adorned your holiness and your soul. Even the what the church declare that this an invalid event your testimony of holiness glorifies God still in that he can draw good out of evil. This is a matter for the Church and it's authorities not a matter of the Churches children.
Would all those who have been to medjugorje and not had a spiritual awaking,conversion,healing or other devine grace, please raise your hand.
That should settle that question.
Dear Faith World, I thank you for giving me and 30+ million pilgrims who have actually been to Medjugorje to weigh in on this issue,as well as those who do not believe in the events at Medjugorje. Everyone is entitled to their opinon. However, I believe the time has come to maintain an open mind, until the Vatican and the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith has officially announced the Churches stance on the Alleged Apparitions at Medjugorje. First, let me say, that, as a Theologian with a Master's Degree in Pastoral Ministry I happen to believe in the Fruits of the Alleged Apparitions in Medjugorje. However, that said, I maintain what the catholic church has always taught regarding such private revelations. That is, no one, especially Catholics, are required to believe in private revelations. The truth of the matter is, that we as catholics have no further need or proof than what has already been revealed to us in the sacred scripture. This is, indeed, a fact. However, since that time there have been instances throughout history where Our Lady, the Blessed Virgin Mary has honored this Earth with her presence via private Apparitions, such as the church approved apparitions, most notably, to Bernadette Soubirous at the Grotto in Lourdes France and to the 3 young children at Fatima in Portugal. We must keep in mind that each of these, now church approved apparitions had many detractors, as with present day Medjugorje. Further, there were many who fought against the validity of those apparitions, even though, the age old Maxims,"by their fruits you shall know them" surely applied. Jesus himself tells us in the sacred scriptures that " a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, as a Bad tree cannot bear good fruit." Jesus continued: "By their fruts you shall know them." When one applies this teaching of Jesus to the Alleged Apparitions in Medjugorje, it is my firm belief that in the end, the Fruits of Medjugorje cannot and will not be denied. That said, even if the Holy Roman catholic church approved the Medjugorje Apparitions tomorrow, catholics would still no be required to beleive in their validity, nor, would this validity add anything to Revelation of the sacred scriptures and the vast Tradition of the catholic church.
In closing, let me say this, it is clear that the "Alleged" apparitions at Medjugorje will always have those who believe in them and those who do not. In my humble opinion, the fruits of the alleged apparitions will win out in the end and Medjugorje will eventually be recognized as worthy of belief for those who wish to believe. As long as pilgrims who have gone and continue to make pilgrimage to Medjugorje understand that when the Congregation for the Doctrine of the faith makes it final decision on Medjugorje, it is to be adhered to and followed to letter. Further, as long as the millions of people who have gone to Medjugorje coninue to strive to Live the faith according to the teachings of the Revealed Truths of the sacred scripture and tradition of the catholic church. May God's Will be done.
Jim Greene, NJ USA
Those who believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary DOES NOT APPEAR here on earth, let it be your belief that the people who otherwise believed, respect your belief. But please consider its ultimate intention. On the other hand, I believe you might have your own good way to pray to God. On the part of the Roman Catholic, to prove if it is true or not, it undergoes a thorough and careful investigation, and as of this date, it has no official final statement yet. It takes a long time so that it will never be wrong.
Remember that even Jesus himself has not pleased everybody. When He was on Earth, many people did not believe on him. They even embarrased him, spit on His face, scourged, crowned with thorns, pierced, and killed Him – the heaviest punishment to the worst criminal was intensified for Him.
RESPECT. We, people are separated by differences in belief and/or religion but we can be ONE in prayer to GOD. Love and Respect will build a good relationship to all people even with differences in belief.
The apparitions of Mary to the seers associated with Medjugorje are true. A tree is known by its fruit was Mary's answer and that says it best. The fruit of father Vlasic is similar to the fruit of Judas Iscariot. Was Jesus a FALSE Messiah because one he chose was a crook? So the argument posed against Vlasic's connections to Medjugorje shows a lack of wisdom or even a lack of scripture knowledge. The local bishops , Peric and Zanic's open disdain and animosity against the apparitions veracity, is a sign of the times. We are in the major spiritual battle of all time. Pope John Paul said this in 1976 ("We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the antichurch, between the Gospel and the antigospel, between Christ and the antichrist" – Pope John Paul II), prior to the first App's in Medjugorje. Satan got to them is my humble reading. This being Mary's last apparitions on earth (the world is about to CHANGE not end) gives rise to things not following other past apparitions. People often get the quote about God respecting all religions as being a proof that it is not Mary. She said all religions are NOT equal but God loves ALL people no matter what religion or no religion they chose. The good news is Mary's message to Pray, Pray Pray and pray unceasingly is true. She is a "broken record" on this topic so maybe we will get the message that it is supremely important. We didn't at Fatima and we got WWII as a result. So let's get the prayers started and see what God will do with our humble sincere prayers from the heart and let the church do its work on ruling on Medjugorje. That its a true supernatural event is obvious according to science. Now let the Holy Spirit inform an UNBIASED commission. 28 years of DAILY apparition is what we should be debating. Why ?? We will find out and then wish we had prayed more. We will echo Schindler in the movie Schlinders list, "I could have done more". Praying in this case.
TO LAKE J–The Catholic church COMPILED, not AUTHORED, the word of God–this is what Catholics always stumble over–making their church's role more important than the thing it was asked to compile. That God used your church at a particular point in time to compiled His words into book form –words he gave to other men long ago, does not somehow anoint you as God's mouthpiece. Paul spread the message on Romans or the roads–do we praise the Romans/the roads because he used them to get around on and get to the places he took the message to? Being the organization that God used doesn't mean your church somehow supersedes the Word of God–you were simply the servants used to complete the task. The servants role and position is lower than the one served and what he has to say. But the servants got a big head, unfortunately at having been used and now strut around acting as though they wrote the word and can assign it a third place position AFTER their organization and its leader and Mary. God spoke through a donkey too, it doesn't mean the donkey should be seen as more important than the message it was given to speak. Random house publishes many books, but what matters most is what the book says–what it says and who authored it, not the publisher. As far as being at rest in heaven, read the Bible and you'll see that's what it says–your questioning of it shows you don't know whats there. If you weren't content to be regurgitated to and would pick up your own fork, and make the effort to put it into solid food, bring it to your mouth, chew and shallow, –that is open, read, meditate on, grapple with, digest and ingest the Word, you'd not be following falsehoods and insisting that what your are being told is true. God gives the Holy Spirit to his children to help them. that there some disagreement is among believers is even addressed by God in the Bible, that he knows it will happen–we are not perfect -but he is and can get around any mistakes we make. NO man was given supernatural power to perfectly understand Gods work never making a mistake. You can believe a church that makes itself more important than God and his message, or you can crack open the book, and read–many things are easily understood, things that the RCC teaching completely contradicts. But if you don't look for the truth yourself, you will remain mislead on so many points, such as Mary and what happens to believers after they die, before the end of days.
Like Randall Sullivan,who investigated Medjugorje and wrote, I believe, Miracle Detective, I'm bothered by the FACT that some horrible,brutal,barbaric massacres in which some of Medjugorje villagers were likely involved, have taken place around Medjugorje in the late 80s and 90s even while visitors were there. Muslim villages were destroyed and the Franciscans quickly established churches in them. That's obscene.
Why has the Most Holy Mother of God not spoken out about this, or spoken of the dire need for peace in this tinderbox of a region among the area's Croats, Serbs, Muslims,Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians?
Perhaps there was once something holy happening in Med,but that doesn't mean that that is still the case. The evil one wouldn't appear completely as he is because no one would continue to come to Medjugorje;of course miracles would be allowed to happen,and God can bring good out of anything.But please remember that even the holiest saints,have been well fooled by the evil one. If they could be fooled,then it is millions
of times easier for us to fall victim to the evil one's deceit.
Plus, this 'all religions please God' comment is very troubling. That is not The Roman Catholic Church belief and the Most Holy Mother of God would never say anything that contradicted the Church.Ever.Islam denies the Cricifixion and Ressurection so how God the Father tell the Mother of God that Islam, a religion that denies his Son and her Son,is equally pleasing to God?! Illogical.
Winky–God says to "contend for the faith" and "preach the word! Be prepared in season and out of season–correct, rebuke and encourage with great patience and careful instruction. –2 timothy.
but you tell us to not disagree with false RCC teaching and obey but to obey Mary who cannot speak to us. If you knew what GOD HAD TO SAY, you wouldn't be speaking untruths and giving false counsel.
"our lady" as you call her was an imperfect woman used by God as all those used by God are(imperfect) she served God, and then died and went to her rest She is not speaking.
The Catholic church compiled the Bible–as a servant of God, they were asked to take HIS WORDS, given to others hundreds of years before, and to put them into book form— that does not make you somehow greater than the words you were asked to compile, nor in a position to put your church and its leaders in a superior position to those words. But the RCC always teaches that the Bible is down there about 9th on the list below the this capital C church This is outrageous pride. It puts itself above God in doing so. Catholics always stumble over this, bragging that they were used to compile the Bible as though that is someone on par with being the author of those words. Random House publishes books, but its whats in the book and who authored it that are of the primary importance, not the agency that was used to put it into the others hands. The RCC got a big head over being used for this task and has since gone around insisting that being used as a servant somehow puts them on par with the one they serve and his words. IT DOESN'T. Pride blinds and it blinded your leaders to what God words say.
I believe in Medjugorje because there are so many good fruits coming from it and also because I don't believe that the visionaries could have kept up a facade all of these years – if they had been lying they would have broken down years ago. Also they suffer persecution which show that something good is happening there and there life is not an easy one having to go out each morning to speak to lots of pilgrims etc
Johannes writes: "Those who are not Catholics, are no less creatures made in the image of God, and destined to rejoin someday, the House of the Father. Salvation is available to everyone, without exception."
Those words, ascribed to the "Gospa," make a mockery of the Martyrs who died–who were fed to the lions–defending the Faith. More importantly, it makes a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice. It dilutes and in some ways, nullifies, His Propitiatory Sacrifice. As if Christ just sauntered down here to hang Himself on a cross, but, if you believe it, great! If you don't believe it, also great!
For God–Christ–to Sacrifice Himself in such a manner, man must have been so fallen that there was no other way to Redeem him. But Medjugorje makes a mockery of this unique salvific act because it espouses syncretism, indifferentism and relativism. It dillutes the salvific act down into a common parlance.
I believe in Medjugorje, I have been there 7 times. The first time I came with my husband,who was not a Catholic, we shared many miracles, one which was a miracle. He asked if Jesus wanted him to become Catholic and follow this road he needed a miracle, he asked to have his sinus problem cured and within 15 seconds, liquid poured out of his nose, also his rosary became gold colored overnight, and saw the sun spinning. He did in need follow that path, we remarried in the Catholic church, he went through the Catholic process and became Catholic, joined the K of C. He loves our faith.I saw on that first visit 2 large, slightly different in size, light blue clouds in the dark sky at 10pm head to the top of apparation hill and heard the dogs barking during the whole apparation and stopped barking when she left.I pray for the Bishop of Mostar because I think his pride was hurt when Our Lady said , he acted to quickly kicking out the two Franciscan Priests. I see nothing in her messages in 28 yrs that is against our faith, her son Jesus should be proud of his Mother, for she brings me joy in my life.
The visions of Medugorje prompted a surge in Marianist spirituality. That can be a good thing, if gentleness, compassion and other qualities of Christ's mother are boosted in the faithful. Anti-intellectualism and overly orthodox religiosity can be negative byproducts of such devotions. Don't discount Medugorje's validity, though, solely because of the sordidness of the visionaries' spiritual director. Remember, Mother Theresa also received counsel from a sordid priest, a clergy abuser.
My understanding is that the Church does not give an official "ruling" on any apparitions until the alleged apparitions are completed. Discernment could not be completed unless all info was available.
I vsited Medjugorje with a group in 2004, and while walking back from the Oasis of Peace with them, stopped to take a group picture around a tiny roadside shrine which had a small statue of Our Blessed Mother, the same that a few of us had bought in a gift shop. When the film was looked at that evening, perfectly outlined in the noonday sky above us was the large figure of a woman wearing a veil, the folds of her dress outlined (the picture was sent to spirit daily by my friend after it was properly developed and named "Our Lady of the Clouds" and can been seen in unusual pictures on the medjugorje web. I also have the moving image on my video camera. I do not think that anyone could have manufactured that as there was not a building for miles -only fields and the image was hundreds of feet in the air. I had never heard of Medjugorje before I went and never for a moment expected to see anything unusual. I just went to pray with the others and hope that God would answer us, and experience a long overdue break. Two other unusual things happened in that trip. A visionary from Ireland on pilgrimage there in Medjugorje stopped at our Inn and spoke to the guests and previous acquaintances there informally. When I was introduced to him, I drew him aside and asked him to pray for my brother who had been harmed by a priest as an altar boy many years ago. We only had recently found out about the abuse. He was severely depressed and his life in turmoil. He asked what we as a family had done about it, and I said 'nothing, we endured, prayed, got some help and counseling for my brother – the Priest was a sick man. The visionary went around to speak to others and came back to speak to me before he left. He said 'Before the year is out, great things will happen for T….(my brother)". Within 8 months, and after 30 years of pain, my brother was acknowledged as a victim, awarded compensation, is married with a family in 2009, an happier than I have seen him before. One other strange thing happened. In my room at the Inn (small private room), I was awakened one night when my bed was lifted at the bottom end and hit against the wall. Needless to say, I was jerked awake, flipped the light terrified at what I might see but, there was no one or nothing to indicate how my bed had moved so hard against the wall. The room was subsequently sprinkled with Blessed Salt, Holy Water, and the light was left on every night after that! Is Medjugorje a fake? – I can't say but I feel sure that all the Masses, Rosaries, Confessions and fervent prayers have not go unheard of in Heaven.
All I know for sure is that in 1989 on a visit there my life was completely changed, healed and is complete now, until I "see Him who my soul desires".
Per The Bible: "You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build My Church and the gates of hell shall NOT prevail against it". The Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church and will continue to do so; as in the case of Medjugorje.
The Magisterium of the Church lead us.
God the Father chose to send His Son to us THROUGH The Virgin Mary ("Hail Full of grace" was the greeting the Angel Gabriel gave her, we believe she was perfect and without original sin). Mary only knew how to love. Our Lady brings everyone back to her son. Suggested book to read: "Rome Sweet Home" by Scott and Kimberly Hahn which shows their journey from the Presbyterian church where he was so adamantly opposed to the Catholic Church TO their family becoming Catholic. EWTN's, THE JOURNEY HOME, shows converts/reverts journeys to the Catholic Church. Watch it with an open heart and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal his truth to you.
Personally, I visited in 1991 with my parents and siblings. It was such a peaceful place though war would break out the following year. I find it amazing that not one of the bombs dropped on the city exploded during the war. There were many conversions there; many good fruits.
I believe that Mary appearing in Medjigoie. I read about this when I was a teenager. My aunt had visited and talked about her trip. I was a teenager then and it was just ne persons account I thought. Than in 2006 I went to confession to let my priest know I had been Married outside of the church in 1993 and that my husband had been married before. My priest said I could not take the Eucarist until my husbands past marriage was anualled and are marriage was blessed in the church. I was saddened and continued to attended mass and not receive the eucharist for two years. During the time I waited, I yearned to have a deeper faith, to stay conected with other Catholics, I started to attended "Hearts on Fire" charistmatic prayer group. It was not long before I had people praying for me and my husband became Catholic and my marriage was blessed in my church. Also I joined 'St. Josephes" Prayer ministry out of Anacortes, wa. During my few first months of classes the lessons were reflective on bible readings, lessons on how to pray for others taught by Sisters and other prayer ministry members on video and than the practical part were me and the members would pray. Well, the first time I was prayed for I was instantly healed. I had a back problem and when prayed for I was healed as the words came out of the mouth of my prayer partner. I never accepted to experience a healing my self, Just see one perhaps. Now the Miricle Im talking about was not just a miricle because of the instant healing. It was because who truely directed the prayer. It was Mary. I can not tell you exsactly how I knew it was her- I just knew. She told me how to direct the prayer towards her to give to our lord Jesus and he would heal me, and he did. The following lesson, the next week was on soaking prayer and in the same spot that I once had pain was a numming sensation. When I was prayed for the following day the numming left. I believe I was allowed to have the numming sensation to understand the importance of soaking prayer; being prayed for more than once for healing.
Two weeks later, in Feb. I went with a friend to Portland, Or. where others witness one of the seers Ivan from Mejegoria have a vision. I was in the pius praying my Rosery. I could feel the holy spirit in the Church. It filled the air almost like a thickness as you walked in. As I was praying Mary- spoke again- When she speeks you can not do anything but listen. I felt like I was at such peace.
I would share with anyone what was said- What is important is that Mary-Is never to far away from her son and your prayers our being heared so do not stop praying. And even though I love my church and understand why we must be careful to check and double check all super natural mysterys- It is evident to many people that the holy spirit is alive and is continuing to move the hearts of many believers to a richer faith in Jesus. Jesus.
I would also like to share that same year I received the gift of speaking in Arabic. I was also driving over Deseption pass bridge in Oak Harbor, Wa that same year. I did saying my rosery and just started praying in a new language. I read alot after that about prayer languages and a couple of years later a Doctor of Languages ask me to speak my prayer language and she was asstounded that I was speaking the language. She said she toss and turned at the miricle of me speaking another language. She knew I was given this gift from god and that god was truely alive today.
Sister in faith- Lucy
Of course the Catholic Church is not more important than God. My point is that the Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Christ and run by an unbroken line of leaders since St Peter. The Protestant church has split a million ways into everything from liberal Methodists and Episcopalians to modern day fundamentalists, but they are all johnny-come-latelies. The Catholic Church alone remains true to its moral teachings and always will. The every man for himself nonsensical method of Biblical interpretation doesn't work, so it's better you figure that out now. Of course all the Christian denominations are guided in some degree by the Holy Spirit, and through them people can find God, but the Catholic Church remains the original and the true.
I never been at Medjugore. However, it represents a lot to me. I believe in it. In Haiti my country in a Charismatic congress I have seen the sun Miracle just like it is hapenning overthere. I felt that peace, I felt the presence of heaven. Let's all pray for the intentions of Virgin Mary at Medjugore.
I believe it is a fraud. I have read about the children of Fatima and these seers seem to be in stark contrast to the humility of the children of Fatima. Also I cannot believe that the Blessed Virgin would appear for 25-30 years in the same place. It is great that people who go there go to confession, but that is not proof of an apparition.
Why people just couldn't be a little more prudent. All we needed is an act of obedience in the faith. My view on this matter is that – it doesn't matter what miracles and how many conversions it would claim to be to those who experienced but without the Obedience it's worthless.
You report innocent things in a tone that suggests otherwise, and have distorted the role of the defrocked priest in Medjugorje. This is a most thoroughly investigated and document event, with supernaturally good effects on people worldwide of all backgrounds and walks of life. I do not see any cause for this rancor except jealousy. Even if it were placed under restriction, truth is truth, and no one's declaration can change what is. Ultimately, truth will prevail, and those who have opposed something so extensively self proven, will be revealed in their own shortcomings.
To: Puddlejumper: if anyone is a puppet, people like yourself who believes the false doctrine taught by renegade preachers are the ones who are fooled. No discipline, wacky interpretations and beliefs. Some of the interpretations of scripture I have seen are outright ridiculous in many cases,as they are doing it on their own, no tradition or authority as handed down from the Apostles. You don't believe what Jesus said "Unless you eat my Body adn Drink my blood, you shall not have eternal life – WE DO and HAVE HAD MASSES SINCE THE DAYS OF PAUL AND PETER. WHO STARTED YOUR CHURCH? THERE IS A NAME FOR EVERY POPE BACK THROUGH PETER, AND HE IS BURIED IN ROME (THE ROME YOU ATTACH TO US WITH EVIL). You are the one(s) attributing to yourself such authority, very haughty indeed. (there are 30,000 different sects of self-interpreted "churches" in shopping centers, movie theaters, etc. around the country). When Jesus said to eat His body and blood, many said, how can this be? They walked away. It wasn't symbolic – He said My flesh is Food indeed. And that's just one of the multitudes of scriptures you ignore or twist to you own purposes, even though all of the early Apostles and Fathers clearly regarded the Eucharist as the true Body and Blood of Christ, in the form of bread and wine. You and false preachers malign confession with the very weak "call no am your father" argument, yet Jesus asks the rich young man, what are the commandments, Honor thy Father and Mother was one – did he admonish him and say, don't say Father – utter, utter ridiculousness and wacky interpretation aimed at leading you and others away fro the church. We can go on and on – you put down confession – Yet Jesus appeared to the Disciples after His resurrection and breathed on them with the Holy Spirit and said – "Whomever sins you forgive they shall be forgive, whose sins you bind they shall be bound." But again, you and other wacky interpretation to fit your purposes…on and on and on.
Medjugorje without mask:http://marcocorvaglia.blog.lastampa .it/mcor/2009/08/articles-in-english-ver sion.html
The franciscans in Medjugorje have misled and brainwashed the whole world.The 'seers' are like puppets in their hands, but are making much money only by their status as 'seers'.Already 50 books have unmasked the fraud in Med. Fr. Slavko Barbaric died in disobedience to his bishop. Fr. Jozo Zovko has been suspended 3x and is now exiled by Rome to the island Badija. Fr. Tomislav Vlasic has been reduced by the pope to the lay-status. I have 200 arguments against the authenticity of the 'apparitions'. Read the website of the bishop of Mostar : www.cbismo.com
The link I have posted doesn't work. So put together "dot" and "it", that appear separate:
(Medjugorje without mask)
My spiritual conversion is because of Medjugorje . Many Many miracles are attributed to Medjugorje , Physical Mental and Spiritual . Confessions , in Medjugorje , are a Major Part of The Healing Process , that is why Medjugorje is called The Confessional Of The World . Many Priests have found their Vocation in Medjugorje , and so I could go on and on about The Phenomenon that is Medjugorge . If this is the work of Satan , it has got to be the Biggest mistake he has ever made ! Yours In Christ . Joe
I visited Medj. in the early nineties.
If it is a fraud then somebody there has access to very rare and very advanced technology, in order for me to have witnessed what I and many others simultaneously witnessed.
If it is a fraud then it is the most fantastic fraud of all time.
Also, because of fantastic occurrences in my personal life, directly related to my visit to Medj. I do not believe it to be a fraud.
I am grateful to God for my time there and I urge you to visit.
I have been there many times as far back as 1985. I truely now believe it is a deception, not a fraud. I believe those kids saw what they believe to be the Blessed Virgin Mary. but in saying that i believe, that these vision are not of GOD and are designed, to divert from the real messages of FATIMA, which were RESTATED IN AKITA, WHICH ENDED IN 1981. WHEN DID THIS START 1981. If you look at LOURDES. AT THE TIME THERE WERE NEARLY 50 REPORTED SIGHTINGS OF OUR BLESSED MOTHER, ALL FALSE IN AN ATTEMPT TO DESTROY LOURDES.
I know we have to be very careful re apparitions etc. But one can only go by your own experiences. I am 63 and have been having locutions since the age of 5, I do have a spiritual director and he has 98 pages so far of my experiences. I have been to Medjugore 4 times the first time was with my daughter Kate, she had been away from church for a number of years. Kate had cancer and she was reluctant to come (it was my first time too) anyhow she came. As I went to bed I felt Our Lady's presence with us she was there whilst I fell asleep, I awoke about 5am and there she was again, I just lay in this beautiful presence of Our Lady. When we climed up Cross Mountain (sorry can't spell the correct name!) there was 3 of us went up and we went our separate ways for a while, when we got together again my daughter told me "well I've had a word with him, and I said if you are really there and if you are listening to me then send one of these birds through the middle of the mountain (she said that whilst up there she noticed that all the birds were flying on the outside and not coming into the middle)she said in about 2 mins a bird came across the middle, Kate being Kate said "well thats ok but I want another one" she said I had to laugh because one almost hit my nose it came so close" I said "well you have your answer" Kate was spiritually healed in Medjugore once home she went to confession and returned to church, my daughter died on August 27th 2004, the afternoon she died I was sitting doing the rosary and about 4pm I just said to myself "Oh Our Lady and the Holy Spirit are here" for me it is so natural I don't get excited I just accept things, but that is when Our Lady took her in her arms to heaven. This is only a very small part of the experiences I've had in Medjugore, there is one thing for sure if Our Lady wants Medjugore to continue it certainly will.
God Bless
I'd be surprised if Medjugorje was a fraud and I'd have to ask, why would God perform miracles there if that were so? To confirm a place that is fake? To confuse? Or are these miracles of the Devil? It seems strange that the many fruits of Medjugorje are healings, miracles, conversions and prayer groups…..So if it's of the Devil? Then it's certainly backfired!
I went there in 1996 a non Catholic. I was witness to the first supernatural miracle of my life and have yet to witness anything like it before or since. The miracle of the sun during an outdoor Mass. How was this done? Smoke and the mirrors? There was no way there was any trickery involved.
The stunning miracle lasted approx 5-10 mins and occured during the consecration of the Mass. Nothing could have prepared me for it. I was shaking, I was awe stricken and tearful. At that moment, I felt I was faced with the undeniable realisation that God EXISTS! It should not take a miracle no, and I already believed in God? Yes! But I cannot describe what affect something like this can have on a person and if something like this changes an atheists' mind or lifts a person's faith, or confirms those whom already believe? Wonderful! God IS alive and God IS a God of miracles. One only has to read the bible to see that. Why should He then not exercise this in our day and age?
So to me, something is definitely going on there that is spiritual. I cannot say if the actual apparitions/messages themselves are a hoax or not, but I can say that either God or the Devil are showing signs/wonders regardless!
I came back home from that place and I was soon baptised a Roman Catholic.
I believe in Our Blessed Mother's appearances at Medjugorje. No need to say another word. The Vatican will approve soon – I know this.
We agree with CHurch teaching on all things faith and morals. Our opinion is only that an *opinion* Only those given the authority can make a valid and final decision. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church concerning apparitions. If you have a problem with the Church's authority..I suggest you re-examin your faith.
There are three causes of apparitions 1) God (very rare), 2) the Devil (quite often) and 3) humans (more likly then not). Human beings can delude themselves through either malice i.e. money and wealth. or innocently i.e mental illness. The scripture tells us that the Devil can immittae the angels of light and indeed the much famed spanish nun Magadelene of the Cross in the 16th centuary worked marvellous miricles through the work of the Devil which even convinced princs of the church. At this alleged site, the model has been one of intentional disobediance to church authroity and the desperate looking for loopholes in church rulings. Yes many people have found faith and that is good but the foundation rock must be faith in Christ and His church and not some apparition in the former yugoslavia. What does the Devil gain he gains a generation of disobediant catholics he would rejoice. The only valid position given that the Zadar Declation in 1991 found no prove of supernatural source after ten is to be very cautious. And we should ask our bishops to censure claimed apparition tracts under canon 823 and 827 of the Code of Canon Law 1983. In the case of Med following the 1991 declaration the best cause is "it is better to not believe then to believe".
Be patient brethren in Jesus Christ! I hope it will be confirmed as authentic apparitions. Otherwise it could be a real deception in modern era. People made claims there were numerous conversions stories, a confession place of the world, millions and millions of pilgrims made visiting there. All these evidences are seem to be so authentic and convincing indeed. But – also it may well be works of the Satan. The very first signs for us is the confusions and divisions among the elected. What sacrifices the devil wouldn't unwillingly to do for some good works – fruitful works, but the ultimate goal of him is to deceive many – "…even the elect". The bottom line is we must wait and see what come out from the Vatican will say. Maybe we live in a fast-food epoch times that may affect our rational thinking. People slowwww down, read the Holy Bible, Love your neighbours, do good things. Love GOD likewise in the Ten Commandments then we don't have to worry about. May God Bless you all with a lot of peace.
I knew and visited a vatican-based Cardinal during JPII 's reign.
he said that the pope had no objections but followed that up saying that there was some woman [ not visionary] travelling the world claiming supernatural phenomena and Miracles associated with Medj. This meant that every single claim would have to be investigated etc and so the task was being made futile [ in short , too much boasting etc was the root problem ].
the Bishop of Mostar MUST speak and guide- my only reservation is that the Archbishop of Split [ Franic] was totally in favour and supported medj.from the start.
even cardinals including the english one have also been impressed. are they ALL gullible ?
Remember that many , many years after lourdes and fatima was approval given; S.PIO was exiled from the church and his order for over 15 years as was S.FAUSTINA before recognition.
if it is declared 'a fraud\'[ and it cannot be proven so ] now – it will still remain an open question ; that's my point .that's the nature of "apparitions".
there is far too much debate & dissension &'boastfulness' to qualify such 'private' apparitions in this case .
[…] because the weeds are so strong that they ultimately choke out the wheat. In both the case of Medjugorje and the Legion, this is exactly what the magisterium is doing now, and we would do well to listen […]
It's an obvious fraud, so the church should stay true to two-thousand years of lying and accept it as true. Rejecting the apparition merely because it's a hoax would break with lifetimes of Catholic tradition.
We pray, pray, pray… Thanks to Blessed Mary…
One of the common theories put around concerning Medjugorije is that these manifestations are the work of Satan.
One of the common responses is "Why would Satan do something which only reinforces faith in God?"
The answer is obvious. God requires faith from his followers. Faith means you believe without evidence.
If God were to provide direct evidence that he exists, there would be no need for faith. Because direct evidence would mean God is a fact, not a belief.
Why believe something which is proven? You don't need to *believe* something is true, because evidence means you *know* it is true.
So why would Satan create these manifestations? Because it destroys faith. People think there is actual evidence god exists, so they no longer need faith.
Those people who view the miracle might worship God. But they worship him because they saw *evidence* he exists. Not because they have faith he exists.
And if people don't have faith in God, where do they end up? You guessed it. Oblivion.
So think. All those people going to see the manifestations, might just end up on the highway to hell courtesy of the deceiver's clamshell tricks.
I don't know about you, but why would anyone want to risk their soul in such a way? True faith shouldn't need proof anyway.
Imagine the Enemy consulting his chief advisor. "We've done well with scandals, drugs, dissenters and all that, but how do we get the good ones?"
"Ah", says the advisor, "you go and impersonate the Woman you hate, you get them all coming to Mass and confession, you throw in a few of those tricks you're good at, and feed them messages that will make them think they're special. They'll come in their millions, and they'll swear it's all genuine. OK, so you'll lose some to Him, but they'll say – look at the good fruits – and not see the poison in the fruit. That fruit trick worked before, didn't it? And you'll get them following their own imaginations, instead of following Him and His Mother."
"Good advice", says the Enemy. "We'll do it. I know just the place, there between the hills."
And he did.
The Church must be very careful and deliberate. Their is nary a diocese in the world that hasn't received vocations as a result of Medjugorje. The Church previously declared that it cannot be proved that anything supernatural is occurring there but that it is a legitimate place of pilgrimage and the pilgrims should be ministered to.
The best proof will come soon enough. The visionaries said the secrets would be revealed in their lifetimes. If any one of them passes away before that happens, then they lied and lies don't come from God. As they reach their fifties, their normal mortality approaches, especially in that part of the world.
The Church is on dangerous grounds here….regarding the implications that Satan is attempting to lead us astray we must always check w/Scripture and remember Matt 12:25 before making such a statement. She (The Vatican) will also do well to remember Matt 15:8-9 less she fall into the same judgements of the Sanhedrin!
"dubious doctrine, the manipulation of consciences, suspect mysticism and disobedience towards legitimately issued orders."
These are virtually the exact same words used to describe Fr. Gino Burresi, a well known reputed mystic once considered by many to be the heir apparent to St. Pio of Pietrelcina. In the decree signed by then-Cardinal Ratzinger, any delusion Fr. Gino's fanatical followers maintained about him should have been dissipated. But the beliefs many had in him continue to this day despite the Church's judgment and an abundance of evidence against him (that the Church in Her sense of justice has never publicly revealed). His followers believed he had visits from the Virgin Mary, secret messages, and that he bore the stigmata. Many stories of conversions, wonders, and miracles surrounded him as well. Eventually he was exposed by a long Church investigation that took 15 years. Interestingly, the conclusions Cardinal Ratzinger reached (and confirmed as Benedict XVI) were identical to those reported to the Vatican by Fr. Gino's superiors in 1988. (I know because I was the one who wrote them and took them to the Vatican.)
My point is, I have learned that in the history of the Church it seems at least 99% of the time visions and apparitions, no matter how appealing and seemingly approved by wonders and signs, turn out to be false. It is a very important part of spiritual wisdom to realize this to be the case.
It is noteworthy that the few apparitions of the Virgin Mary that in time have been declared "worthy of belief" by the Church, involve very few actual visits from the Mother of God, and very few words. For my part the length and frequency and details of these so-called apparitions are proof enough they are not valid. Or have we all forgotten Garabandal, Bayside, San Damiano, and Necedah, Wisconsin?
What is even more alarming is the need some of the faithful seem to have to cling to "signs and wonders." Have they never read in the Acts of the Apostles how Simon Magus did many signs that even led some early members of the Church astray? Be done with these things, people! And stop listening to whispers and rumors about what this Cardinal or that bishop said. One of Fr. Gino's penitents at the time he was exposed was the Archbishop Secretary of the Congregation for Consecrated Life! Yes! Bishops, priests, and anyone can be deceived unless they maintain a healthy skepticism accompanied by a thorough knowledge of the Church's experience in these cases, and a good grasp on mystical theology.
I already assert as my opinion that these visions at Medjugorje are not worthy of belief, and I will be thoroughly surprised if the Vatican does not soon publicly declare the same thing.
I believe that God is doing something here. People are coming back to Him through the Sacraments of confession and the Eucharist. I also will put my trust in my Church. It si Christ's Church and the Church will decide if it is to be public or not. Whatever happens God is to be praised above all.
The rules of faith are clear:
Beware of miracles, regardless of the form. The evil one may use miracles too. And mankind doesn't have the ability to tell one from the other.
What does Satan and his fallen angels want to do ? Yes ! Destroy Medjugorje. For all of you who have eyes and ears and a heart. Please listen :
I say to you in all sincerity and love. Believe ! Shed your unbelief for you are falling prey to the fallen angels. This is exactly what they want. They are the sowers of doubt and criticism. They are the liars, the destructive forces behind all this. Do not give in to them but believe ! The Blessed Mother is appearing in Medjugorje. I will give my life for this truth.
I've been a witness to many miracles there ! Pray for those Bishops who are so heavily attacked by the fallen angels which are in the air. Let us pray for all the doubters. Keep going there. You will be richly blessed beyond your wildest dreams.
I've been in so many arguments with my friends over this, because they truly believe in Medjugorje and I think it is clearly an elaborate hoax. But all the evidence points to a fraud. No real Marian vision would include sexual scandals and such blatant money-mongering as Medjugorje has. It has done some good, as the conversion stories and spiritual renewals show, but good can come out of evil and that is what has happened in this case. I am eager to hear the official Church ruling so we can find out once and for all whether Medjugorje is a lie.
All we keep hearing over and over is that "you have to go there. I experienced this or that. It has to be true." To this I ask, since when is our faith founded on what we see or hear or what emotional experience we have? Thank the Lord that he gave us a "system" of faith called the Catholic Church that isn't dependent upon feelings or supernatural occurrences. Jesus Christ himself warned against basing our faith on signs and wonders. God does work miracles and does on occasion appear to people, but for the most part he's an even keeled non-emotional steady-Eddy. He works in our lives every single day in ways that most of us don't even realize. He wants us to believe without seeing and doesn't want us reliant upon some seer to guide us in our daily prayer life. Instead, he wants us to be obedient to his Church to free us from the dangers of addictions to emotional and spiritual highs and keep us on the proper path to holiness for which there is no prescription i.e., fast on Weds., pray 5 rosaries this day, go to confession every week, etc., etc,.
If we were to believe the messages of Medjugorje were coming from the real Virgin Mary, we would have to think God would have us be kept on the emotional roller coaster of fear, accusations, guilt and confirmations of our holiness. Ooh, today I'll make the sun spin for you. Tomorrow I'll give you the exact words you were hoping for. Next week, I'll point out the lack of faith of all of those around you. Next month, I'll make you feel guilty for not praying enough. Next year I'll give you that thing you asked me for and then make you feel like you need to travel all the way here to thank me. Talk about being a puppet on a string! This isn't the God I profess faith in.
People who go there on pilgrimages for the purpose of being around the apparitions and expecting grace from the apparitions are going in disobedience to Church authority, but all you hear them say is that it is "just like heaven there." Plain and simple, the beings in Heaven are there because of their Obedience to God. The ones that are not there are in Hell because of their disobedience to God. So, if they're saying Medjugorje is like Heaven, I think I'd rather stay home!
If you have ears, eyes and a heart. Believe ! Our Blessed Mother is truly appearing in Medjugorje.
I give my life for Medjugorje!!!! Hundreds of miracles happened there! Hundreds of healings and conversions ! Satan and the fallen angels want to destroy Medjugorje. They are full of rage and jealousy.
You are helping them if you don't believe. Stand firm in your belief. Our Blessed Mother needs you. Go there in faith. You will be blessed beyond your wildest dreams.
Pray for those who persecute you and Medjugorje, They don't know what they are doing.
I visited Medj. in the 90s on retreat because my aunt invited me, though we were not close, something made me go. I had 2 experiences that were not my imagination: an intimate encounter while praying alone before the Blessed Sacrament (exposed in our chapel) where I sensed an invisible arm coming down around my shoulders. I was miserable and crying and didn't know why. Someone was trying to comfort me. I think I was being purged on this trip. Regardless of the verdict, I know that satan will interfere wherever good resides.
Ponder all things in your hearts, keep what is good, pray to the HOLY SPIRIT daily, persevere in your faith & receive the sacraments often (confession is key), trust in Jesus & His Mother.
HOPE is a fundamental anchor in our faith. satan will strive to extinguish it. Stay close to Our Lady and entrust all you love to her!
Heaven is asking each of us: WHAT SIDE ARE YOU ON?
The difference in this war is: There is NO neutral ground.
"You will know by the fruits". If the "fruits" of Medjugorje for the past 28 years have been millions of people returning to the sacraments, conversion of Protestants (Wayne Weibel, myself and several people I personally know) to the "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church", numerous vocations to the priesthood, how, pray tell, can this be of satan? What is of the evil one is dissension and division. He's the master – the author of lies. He knows every single one of our weaknesses – and that's where he strikes. PRIDE is man's (or HUman's, if you will) downfall. It's pride which fuels rebellion; pride which convinces the educated and experienced that we know all and God will not do "something new" without our perfect discernment. Many times it has been published that John Paul II privately said, "Medjugorje! Conversions, conversions, conversions!" Was he deceived? Or perhaps he didn't say it all; maybe that's a deception. We are all free to decide. "As for me and my house"…, we will continue to "pray, pray, pray", regularly avail ourselves of the Sacraments and read our Scripture as Our Lady, Queen of Peace, pleads with us to do. My faith tells me this is what is right and the devil is in for one hell of a fight.
Why don't you believe in the apparitions of Our Lady of Peace of Medjugorje?
1. Check this amazing 1 minute video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBiXbJmGz c4
Our Lady of Peace cried for our sins in Honduras 2007 but this is happening all over the world. The image is a replica from the one in Medjugorje (Bosnia) where our Mother is appearing right now (as well as in Salta and San Nicolas, both in Argentina).
Something similar, even with tears of blood, happened in:
• Civitavecchia, Italy, 1995 (blood)
• Córdoba, Argentina, 2005 http://www.reinadelcielo.org/estructura. asp?intSec=3&intId=84
• Mendoza, Argentina, 2005 (blood)
• Marigliano, Italy, 2006 http://www.reinadelcielo.org/estructura. asp?intSec=3&intId=110
• Caracas, Venezuela, 2008
2. Pope John Paul II asked for the statue of Our Lady of Civitavecchia which cried tears of blood (copy of the one in Medjugorje to be taken to the Vatican, prayed in front of her, blessed it and signed a document certifying all this!
Court Finds No Deceit With Weeping Statue [2001-03-20]
http://eltestamentodelpescador.wordpress .com/category/civitavecchia/
http://www.medjugorje.ws/it/articles/int erviews/statue-our-lady-civitavecchia-we eping-tears-blood/
3. Ratzinger rejected the objections of the local bishop of Medjugorje (who recommended his successor because he was against Medjugorje too).
http://www.papanews.it/dettaglio_intervi ste.asp?IdNews=9399
http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/archive s/2008/10/petrus-intervie.html
4. Benedict XVI prayed in front of the image of Medjugorje.
This was reported and spread by VATICAN Radio:
http://www.radiovaticana.org/it1/Articol o.asp?c=145895
5. Why does the Vatican encourage further investigations when local bishop objects the apparitions?
After formal investigations, bishops can declare apparitions as one of the following:
1) constat de non supernaturalitate (established as not supernatural)
2) non constat de supernaturalitate (evidence reviewed so far don't seem to support the supernatural)
3) constat de supernaturalitate (established as supernatural)
It is very important to understand the historic order of events:
1. Successive local bishops have reached the conclusion of non constat de supernaturalitate.
2. THEN the Yugoslavian bishop's conference confirmed this view.
3. As proven above, The Vatican, under both John Paul II and Benedict XVI, has always encouraged further investigations and sent indirect hints that the apparitions are true. The Vatican respects the hierarchical order and does not make a formal statement which is still in the hands of the Episcopal Conference of Bosnia-Herzegovina (which inherited the authority of the dissolved Yugoslavian bishop's conference).
For instance, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, currently the Vatican Secretary of State and one of the highest-ranking officials in the Church, in his "The Last Secret of Fatima," published in 2007, said the bishop's declarations are not the definitive and official judgment of the Church. He clarified that personal pilgrimages are permitted to the site, as the investigations continue.
Regarding declarations of the current bishop of Mostar, where Medjugorje is located:
http://chonak.tripod.com/documents/m1997 1002_peric.html
For wrong reasons, he has publicly declared his opinion of constat de non supernaturalitate (i.e. people shouldn't believe in the apparitions). It is very important to clarify that this is only a personal opinion, NOT AN OFFICIAL ONE, since the bishop can't open an official enquiry of something which is now in the hands of the bishop's conference. Anyone omitting this clarification, makes the bishop of Mostar's statement look not prudent, disordered, out of line, defying a higher authority and making it appear that the bishop is claiming an authority which he has not.
Even more, the bishop's conference claims it is now in the hands of the Vatican.
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009 /10/07/vatican-ruling-on-disputed-medju gorje-shrine-expected-soon/#respond
One of the wrong reasons the bishop used to dismiss the apparitions is that the seers shouldn't know beforehand when our Lady will appear. If the bishop considers this a reason to suspect the apparitions, then he would have to dismiss Fatima, since the three shepherds were told exactly when Our Lady would appear (and that very day happened the miracle of the sun).
This bishop also forbids pilgrimages to Medjugorje which "presuppose the authenticity of the apparitions". If this isn't a bad translation, the bishop is wrong: it is obvious good Catholics don't put themselves over the Church formal approval just as the pilgrims to Fatima or Lourdes weren't defying authorities by going there until it was finally approved even decades later. The Vatican made that very clear (see above Bertone's quote): pilgrimages are allowed.
Let's pray for the bishops of Bosnia-Herzegovina so that they promptly issue a true statement on Medjugorje.
Further reading from EWTN, the largest Catholic media network in the world, founded by a cloistered nun and only based on donations (if that isn't a miracle then what!!!):
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/medju gorje.htm
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/appar itions.htm
6. Apparitions of Salta, Argentina confirm Medjugoje.
The seer from Salta, María Livia travelled to Medjugorje where in a message there she confirmed Mary's real birthday on August 5th (as indicated by Our Lady in Medjugorje). This message (and all the rest until 1997) has received the nihil obstat imprimatur declaration by the Salta Archbishop Blanchoud, who endorsed the apparitions, though did not issue a formal statement (his successor upon his death hasn't approved the next messages yet, let's pray for him).
Messages at:
http://www.inmaculadamadre-salta.org/es/ 3Mensajes/Leer/Mensajes1990-97-ingles.ht m
Note: my 4 year old born-deaf nephew recovered perfect hearing and I personally know healings of leukemia, brain degenerative disease, scoliosis, etc.
7. Important information
Former Medjugorje Priest Laicized [2009-07-29]
Superior: Not a Judgment on Pilgrimage Site
Watch this impressive videos of Medjugorje:
http://www.dmisericordiamed.it/videosmed jugorje.htm
(if Firefox does not work try with Internet Explorer)
http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_appa ritions/statements/index.html#medjugorje
? May 26, 1998 – Letter by Archbishop T. Bertone to Mgr. Gilbert Aubry, Bishop of Saint-Denis de la Reunion [ more ]
? January 7, 2000 – Msgr. H. Brincard, Bishop of Puy-en-Velay, Association of Marian organizations; From the official bulletin of the French Episcopal Conference [SNOP], No. 1,064 [printed in Documentation Catholique of 7 January 2000]. [ more ]
? JULY 3, 2001 – Zenit News Agency Article: Medjugorje: 20 Years Later, the Questions Linger – Church Has Not Ruled on Reported Apparitions [ more ]
? February 17, 2004 – MEDUGORJE: SECRETS, MESSAGES, VOCATIONS, PRAYERS, CONFESSIONS, COMMISSIONS Msgr. Ratko Peric Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, BiH From a talk given at Maynooth, Co. Dublin [ more ]
? June 15, 2006 – HOMILY OF BISHOP RATKO PERIC, SOLEMNITY OF THE MOST HOLY BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST, MEDJUGORJE, 15 – VI – 2006, [ more ]
"Blessed are those who believe without seeing…" Jn 20,29
Woe to those who work against Our Lady's work. Isaiah 5,20
His Holiness, Pope Urban VIII (1623-44) declared:
"In cases like this (apparitions), it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is not proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because Our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true."
In "Lumen Gentium", Vatican II, CH. 12, we read:
"Such gifts of grace, whether they are of special enlightenment or whether they are spread more simply and generally, must be accepted with gratefulness and consolation, as they are specially suited to, useful for, the needs of the Church… Judgments as to their genuineness and their correct use lies with those who lead the Church and those whose special task is not to extinguish the spirit but to examine everything and keep that which is good. (confer 1 Thess 5, 19-21)" ["Extinguish not the spirit. Despise not prophecies. But prove all things; hold fast that which is good". (1 Thess 5, 19-21)
"Since the abolition of Canon 1399 and 2318 of the former Canonical Code by Pope Paul VI in AAS 58 (1966) 1186, publications about new appearances, revelations, prophecies, miracles, etc., have been allowed to be distributed and read by the faithful without the express permission of the Church, providing that they contain nothing which contravenes faith and morals". [This means that no IMPRIMATUR is necessary.]
In obedience to the decrees of Pope Urban VIII and other sovereign Pontiffs, the writer declares that the graces and other supernatural facts related in this text, rest on human authority alone ; and in regard thereto, as in all things else, the writer submits himself without reserve to the judgment of the Apostolic See, which has power and authority.
It has been said that you can judge a situation with the fruits it produces. Why are so many people enimical and sceptical about Medugorje? The fruits are miraculous! How many conversions, people brought back to the faith, lives transformed, and what to speak of vocations to the priestshood and religious life as a result of visiting Medugorje? When our Lady appeared at Fatima, and at Lourdes, the response was the same it has been for many non-believers about Medugorje. Doubt, unbelief and skepticism. If people would pray to the Holy Spirit for the Spirit of Truth, and clarity, it all will become very clear that Our Lady is definitely appearing there, just as she did at Lourdes and Fatima. Of course, we have to be obedient to what the Church rules on it. Remember, it was the Church that was skeptical about Lourdes and Fatima in the beginning, but the Holy Spirit perservered, and shed His Truth on the apparitions so that Holy Mother Church could rule favorably. May the Holy Spirit descend powerfully on all those who are making that crucial decision about Medugorje…May God's Will be done!
I am a believer in many Marian apparitions, but this one troubles me. I had a bought a book on the subject many years ago, and after reading it that first night I had a dream of seeing Our Lady and after trying to touch her garment, it turned black. I never finished the book and have never had the desire to know more about this place or its apparitions.
I find it hard to believe that the Virgin, Mother of God
has appeared these many years.
There is NO DOUBT in my mind that Medjugorje is an out and out fraud. Priests cohabiting with nuns, disobeying one's superiors, silly messages. Imagine the Virgin Mary agreeing to allow one of the female 'seers' to frequent discos or encouraging them to smoke! The sooner the Vatican officially rules on this fraud, the better.
The widespread disobedience there makes it impossible for these apparitions to be genuine. Too much power and money are involved. One can have conversions or good experience anywhere. If one looks at other false apparitions, all the "followers" were also experiencing great fruits, faith revival, conversions, going to Mass, etc. Nothing new here, except maybe the scale of the deception…
Re Joseph Danielson's posted comment, Garabandal has never been condemned, unlike Bayside and Necedah which have been condemned.
When our Beloved John Paul II was here on earth ,he stated that he and or then Cardinal Ratzinger(now Benedict XVI)would decide on the authenticity of Medjugorje.Perhaps our Pope will rule on it soon or state as did his predecessor that if people go there,convert there,pray there,go to confession there,that is good.True the events APPEAR TO BE GOING ON FOREVER:HOWEVER, is that reason to condemn the whole thing.If the events are from the devil,then,he is helping a great number of souls convert to Our Lord's way of thinking .Again let's wait & see how the Holy Father handles this and respect his directves whether we agree or not. CARLYLE
Submission to lawful authority is the hallmark of the virtue of humility. It takes humility for proper discernment of such things.
As for "good fruits",…"If the virtuous man turns from the path of virtue to do evil, NONE OF HIS VIRTUOUS DEEDS WILL BE REMEMBERED." Ezech. 18:24
The "good fruits" of those who actively support such "apparitions" in defiance of lawful authority aren't good at all and count against them as hypocrisy.
Fiat Voluntas Tua
I wonder how many of you that commented even went to
Medjugorje. If you haven't and then give criticism about
then shame on you. There are many and I mean MANY men
young and old who have gone there and been so touched by
Our Dear Mother that they have become priests! If that's
not GOOD fruit then one must be truly blind. No wonder
Our Lady appears every 2nd of the month to pray for unbelievers! Catholics against Catholics. Is this not what the devil likes? It the same Mother where she appeared at Lourdes, Fatima or Medjugorje. Go there and esperience Her there with an open heart and ask the Lord if its real or not and then lets hear what you have to say. If you haven't been there with a sincere open heart, abandoned to God and letting Him show you if its true or not, then you are just gossiping.
God help you if you are truly wrong and its all true!! May Our Lady bring the Holy Spirit and enlighten our minds and sould to the truth about her appearances in Medjugorje and may all be for the GLory of God. Peace to you ALL.
Man from Uncle wrote;
Regarding the growth of the Church, you are also confused on this issue. The Church has grown exponentially in Africa and in Asia as well as Latin America, including South America (Brazil). So, please get your facts before you write your own agenda.
Man from Uncle you are correct that there has been growth in those regions of the world, however, when you examine the statistics you'll find that the percentages of Catholic population in the United States and in the World has not seen change. For example the percentage (provided by the CARA study) of Catholics worldwide was 18 percent in 1965 compared to 17 percent in 2009. So, there has actually be a decline in the percentage of Catholics worldwide, regardless of the reported growth in certain regions. These are the facts.
Apparently, based on statistical evidence, changing the language of the Mass from Latin to every language has not impacted the growth of Catholicism worldwide, but, in fact, there has been a decline.
So, a slight decrease in the percentage of Catholics doesn't seem to be a big deal, right? The body of the Church is about the same as it was 50 years ago, right? Not exactly, and here lays the concern. The percentage of Catholics remains about the same as it was, however, the percentage of practicing Catholics has dramatically decreased. So, the body appears about the same, but, in truth, there exists a corosion that is rapidly depleting it.
For example;
A Gallup study shows that the peak for Catholics attending Mass regulary was in 1957-1958 at 74 percent. In 2009 the percentage, according to a Gallup study, is 36 percent. In 1965, the percentage was 67 percent.
From the CARA study the number of Catholics in 1965 in the U.S. was 45.6 million. In 2009 the total number of Catholics in the U.S. is 65.2 million. The number of Catholics has grown, however, the percentage of Catholic population actually decreased from 24% in 1965 to 22% in 2009.
What is the most alarming statistic is that the number of Catholics who regularly attended Mass in 1965 is greater than the total in 2009, even though there is nearly 20 million more Catholics today than there was in 1965.
So, in the U.S. today, there are actually less Catholics receiving the Eucharist on a weekly basis than there was in 1965. And, we're talking millions less.
This is the fruit of Vatican II. If the Church were a corporation somebody would have been fired already. And, indicators suggest that it is going to worsen.
Recent trends from the CARA study;
Aside from weddings and funerals,
about how often do you attend Mass?
2002 2008
Rarely or never 25% 32%
A few times a year 25 24
Once or twice a month 12 10
Almost every week 12 11
Every week 22 20
More than once a week 4 3
Fewer Catholics are attending Mass on a weekly basis and more are choosing to rarely or never go to Mass.
A major component to this declining trend revolves around generational differences.
Again from the CARA study (U.S. statistics);
Previous research has consistently shown strong generational differences for Mass attendance and related measures of Catholic commitment.
45 percent of Catholics born prior to 1943 report attending Mass at least once a week (64% at least once a month).
24 percent of Catholics born between 1943-1960 report attending Mass at least once a week (42% at least once a month).
15 percent of Catholics born between 1960-1981 report attending Mass at least once a week (39% at least once a month).
18 percent of Catholics born after 1981 report attending Mass at least once a week (36% at least once a month).
So, as Catholic senior citizens (representing the strongest percentage of Church attendance) pass away the overall percentages of Church attendance will continue to decrease. The reason for this is that the successive generations are not replenishing Church attendance.
Only 15% of Catholics aged between 28-49 reported to attend Mass on a weekly basis. And 60% of all Catholics born after 1960 rarely or never go to Mass.
As I contended in my previous post, which has been showcased throughout this thread of posts, is if not for the Marian apparitions in Medjugorje the percentages of weekly Church attendance would be dramatically less. Medjugorje has provided an infusion to the Church which it desperately needed. The body of the Church might appear stable, but, it's nearing critical condition.
It is sad that in this time we are living in a world of so much corruption and lies, we don't see past our own thoughts. Past apparitions have also been doubted; and then given approval once a sign was given. We have had so many conversions in this time of Our Lady's apparitions but as it is the church hold's the final say and all will go through a process. Ultimately God's Will~Will be done.
Do you remember that 'seer'Ivan Dragicevic would become a priest? That's what the 'Gospa' of Medjugorje did tell him… She should help him…
Well he failed in 2 seminaries(Visoko and Dubrovnik) and married the ex-beauty-queen of Massachusetts, Laureen Murphy. Between 1999 and 2004 they bought 2 appartments and a big villa for the total sum of…(fasten seatbelts)
1.566.000 Dollars!!!
They have their own travel agency in Boston and have a pension for 28 pilgrims in Med.
Read it for yourself :
http://abateoimpertinente.files.wordpres s.com/2009/09/dossier-dragicevic2.pdf
People, I found a few justified questions to the bishop of Mostar, the main source of denigration of the events of Medjugorje:
Why is the bishop of Mostar disobedient to his higher authorities, because the latest statement from the Doctrine of Faith, through Cardinal Bertone, was that the bishop of Mostar should mainly spend his energy gathering material FOR the rightful authorities to judge the validity of Medjugorje, and called bishop's position (against Medjugorje) his PERSONAL opinion?
Does this statement from a higher authority matter in any way to the bishop, especially since his neighbour bishop from Split has a completely different view on Medjugorje than he has?
The bishop of Mostar knows that he is in NO way the authority to decide the validity of the events? If so, why is him condemning so vehemently the seers and all those surrounding them BEFORE time? For 28 years, both bishops of Mostar, would not stop calling them publicly, liars, daydreamers, deceived by Satan, fanatic 'false prophets' and creating a 'second' class of (fooled and miracle seekers) Catholics out of those who were blessed in some way at Medjugorje?
The result of all this? Look only at this posting, at the similar verbal and, why not, physical violence of those who were mounted by him against Medjugorje… Detractors of Medjugorje go even that far to judge the good will and authority of the Pope for this matter, because it 'brings money' to the Church. How sick is that?
In case the Pope will validate this apparition, what will it be with those who oppose it now so vehemently? Will they gladly accept the authority of the Pope in that matter, as I am ready to accept it in case Medjugorje is proved otherwise, or will they form yet a new branch of Lefebreists?
The human mind is so fickle it tends to attach mystery to what it can not explain..be it deception or genuine phenomenon. most often there are nothing new about the "messages" from these apparitions. They all talk about call to repentance and more elaborate rituals in practice of catholicism. In Nigeria there was a time Aokpe and Umunya towns were the centres of attraction with marian phenomena..later one hears unsavoury stories about the seers or visionaries. Well I have always believed that if there is something new I have not heared from my Parish priest and it must come from Mary, then she better come and tell me by herself! I dont want to be exposed to the debate on what is true or false.
To MaryAnne Tassiello posted comment, "Garabandal has never been condemned, unlike Bayside and Necedah which have been condemned"– Please be accurate with your facts. Bayside has never been condemned, period. I challenge anyone to provide an official statement from the Brooklyn Diocese declaring that these apparitions have been "condemned". The bishop's 1986 letter against Bayside never used the word "condemned".
For true and accurate information on the Bayside apparitions, go to: smwa.org/bfr.htm
Darryl Bolisay
My own personal opinion of Medugorje is that it is a very holy and special place where Our Lady has been pouring out a multitude of graces on all who have visited there. it doesn't matter what faith or lack of faith who receive these graces. I have been there three times and have experienced many blessings.I experienced a miracle through our lady of Medugorje in march of 1990.So from my own standpoint, I definitely believe in it. Also, so many people have come back to their faith roots through Medugorje.Let's all continue to pray for God's divine plan and will in this matter.
God Bless
Betty Ann
Lets suppose that the virgin mary hasn't apperared in Medjugorje. there has been alot of people that have been helped, by their devotion, the blessed mother still hears their prayers. more people should say the rosary, and they would'nt worry wheather she is apperaing or not.were falling into darkness because there is not enough people praying for peace in the world. look at abortion, we spent all our time worrying about things that don't help peace.
I'll wait for the official Vatican statement and accept whatever is determined. My personal opinion: this is a hoax or something worse.
I have read the comments so far, and agree that if you have nt been there, then may be it is better not to say much. I have been there and have not seen visually the manifestation of the apparitions; but I can tell you that God has manifested himself to me in Medjugorje in various other ways. GO TO MEDJUGORJE AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.
Dear Friends,
Of course Our Lady is appearing in Medjugorge. If this were the work of satan, "can a house divided against itself stand?" The abundant good fruit of Medjugorge is also solid proof of the goodness of its source, according to the test given to us by Christ Himself. But of course satan is nearby. He always is, and especially where Our Lady is being so effective at drawing so many, many souls to her Son. Satan must hate that Our Lady is bringing so many souls to her Son through Medjugorje. So it doesn't surprise me at all that one commenter would have a dream with satanic overtones, or that satan had won at drawing disobedience from some members of the Church…He has a vested interest in destroying Medjugorje, and no doubt all persons who are connected with Medjugorje are still human, subject to the same human frailties as the rest of us. And who among you has not yielded at one time or another – or even on a daily basis – to his evil wiles – you cast the first stone. And of course all we faithful Catholics must be obedient to whatever our Holy See decides. Remember St. Francis of Assisi, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Padre Pio, St. Jose Maria Escriva and so many others who were unjustly judged from within the Church. Yet they remained obedient even in the face of unjust persecution. Hmmmm. Sounds like Someone Else we know…
Catholics,,, don't be fooled by these things occurring in Medjugorje. The Vatican will reject Medjugorje. The Bishops will denounce it. Then thousands upon thousands of catholics will reject the Vatican and will be divide and "out of the fold."
Etymology —-The idea of demons is as old as religion itself, and the word demon seems to have ancient origins. The Merriam-Webster dictionary gives the etymology of the word as Greek daimon, probably from the verb daiesthai meaning "TO DIVIDE", distribute."
Do your research here is a good place to start
THE GREATEST MIRACLE is not halfway around the world,,,, it is in your parish church at the altar,,, When the Bread and Wine becomes the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ AMEN.
Am I right?
I have never been to Medjugorje, so I don't know if the appirations are true ( I beleive that they are).
I have two friends that have been and they were totaly moved by their experiences.
I would love to go, so I pray that one day I can.
There are many "saints' in heaven that are not cannonised.
God bless all
When I first heard about the visions at 15 I scoffed. At 24, I heard about them again and attended a service with Ivanka, Ivan and Mirjiana. I then went to RCIA class for 9 months and converted to Catholicism.
I will say that Fr. Tomislav and Fr. Jozo among other priests were definitely not living a Holy life and disobeyed orders from the Bishop – however this has not hurt my Faith. You can't administer the Sacraments unless you have permission to serve under holy orders in an area. That means all of the people being married, confessed, etc are not under the Church's Blessings, as these people have been duped into believing. Churches have been built without permission and staffed without proper authority.
Whoa unto those who are being led astray by these pretenders – they will answer to God for their lost sheeple.
However, with that said, we are each responsible to know our priest and what is happening in our own parish.
Even Satan can disguise himself as an Angel of Light and fool some of the people someone the time. Priests today are under attack by their very own liberal parishoneers. I am fortunate enough to have ones that are not afraid to speak out against abortion, premarital sex, contraception, euthanasia, etc…This is not the case in most of the parishes I have visited.
Be ready to search for the Truth and avoid error – like St. Francis of Assisi said in his prayer.
Those who believe in God due to miracles, believe through imagining. Not by faith.
Are they worshiping the god? Or the miracle? And why do they need the miracle anyway?
Some of the clergy in Croatia have been against the apparitions from the start, however, I was there in 1987 and experienced many spiritual occurences. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Our Lady is appearing to the visionaries all these many years. I am a devout Catholic and am of sound mind and am not imagining all that I experienced there.
Father Benedict Groeschel in his book, "A Still Small Voice: A Practical Guide on Reported Revelations" has stated that people could merely be having a religious experience at Medjugorje and not because of a true private revelation or true apparition. I highly recommend the above book.
I have done much research on private revelations and I believe that Medjugorje is false. Please people do your homework and not just blindly believe things.
How can Medjugorie be a hoax? This is a place where there has been many conversions and miracles. It is Satan's last attempt at ruining and turning people away from our Lord's Mother.
I did not believe in the apparations but had the opportunity to go over 20 years ago. I spent the day with our group over about 100 lay people, priests, nuns, brothers, students. I looked at the sun when I heard people saying that it was spinning, etc. and a year later, when I had my annual eye exam, there was no damage to my eyes. I knew than that it had to be a miracle as I had looked at the sun a long time trying to see what the others where talking about. I had completely forgotten this until I heard the doctor say my eyes were perfect for my age. Since than I have many times written email petitions to Our Lady of Medjugorje & they have always been answered – many family members & friends have returned to the faith.
So do I believe that Our Blessed Mother has and is appearing in Medjugorje? Absolutely YES. Praise God! And may she continue to appear there to counsel us and hear our petitions and bring them to her Son, Jesus. May the Holy Catholic Church, in Her Wisdom, bring a good judgement concerning this blessed, peaceful place.
I went to Medjugorje in 1989. I have no doubt Our Lady is appearing there. It is a place steeped in peace. I could not get to confession fast enough. Before this trip you couldn't drag me to reconcilliation. The pilgrimage to Medjugorje has deepened my faith. I know God exists. I did see signs and wonders. The signs were not the most important fruit. The fruit was a full conversion of heart to love and serve God.
For Maria Teresa:
If you haven't been to Medjugorje, how can you write that you believe it is false? I visited Medjugorje in the summer of 2000 with my wife. I met several people who didn't believe who by the end of our 10 visit, were the strongest believers. Miracles happened to them whether internally or externally. It is Heaven on Earth there and you can feel it. Never mind with the literature you read about apparitions, etc. Some are false but it's really simple: by the fruits you shall know them. So how do you explain millions of conversions, confessions, thousands of masses, many more physical healings, interior healings, and public miracles? You will always find critics, and this is where you tap into your faith. If you don't believe it, ask the Blessed Mother why? Perhaps she will intercede for you and give you an answer. Better yet, go to Medjugorje with an open heart and then made an informed decision.
Medjugorje is The Church on Track. Every city, town, village in the world should follow the example lived in Medjugorje and joy and peace in the heart would enter every soul. Peace would envelop the earth. Jesus has come to us again through His Blessed Mother our Gospa.
I have been four times to Medjugorje from South Africa since 1991 and have only experienced love and the simple way of Christian life. Pray, Fast, Holy Mass, Confession, Read Bible. Where is the problem if any?
I have been to Medugorje 8 times and have taken pilgrims there. Medugorje is real. After my first visit, my life changed dramatically and I have experienced the conversion of many pilgrims. So much good has come from Medugorje, religious vocations, healings, conversions, etc. Satan hates Medugorje and will do what he can to destroy Our Lady's School of Love and Conversion. Satan is losing souls and God the Father is getting his children back through Medugorje.
Medjugorje is my second home. I Love it.
I`ve been to Medjugorje 3 times (the second in the middle of the Bosnian War) and all in a whealchair. Nothing has reached my inner soul like Medjugorje. Nothing was able to lift me out of despair and give lasting peace like the Virgin of Mejugorje.
If a negative judgement is given by Pope Benedict, it will not cause upset or confusion to me and I`m sure many others. St Padre Pio and St Faustina received similiar negative judgements only to be declared great saints of the Christian faith, in Gods good time
You ask, why do people need miracles?
How about we ask Jesus? After all, he performed a lot of them back in the days.
My comment on this article: it is very misleading.
(Former) father Tomislav was involved with Medjugorje early on, but he let it get to his head. He got involved into a cult where he believed he was the 'star'.
I have been to Medjugorje but I did not need to go to believe. I already knew it was true.
Medjugorje is Jesus' Mother last attempt to save us from ourselves.
Know the tree by its fruits. Medjugorje's fruits are incredible. Do the research.
That's all I will say.
Could you explain how Fr. Jpzo was not living a holy life? I had not heard this information.
Thank you and God bless
The visions and messages are a hoax.
The fruits, however, are very real. If tens of thousands of people came to my backyard every day and said the rosary, there would be equal conversions. That does not validate the supposed visions, however.
The seers' rank disobedience to their bishop – for many many years – and their attachment to worldly goods and esteem – are the hallmarks of false prophets. There has not been one verifiable, authentic miracle (i.e. supernatural) at Medjugorje beyond the power of prayer which exists throughout the universe. T
he obssession with "secrets" that are not at all for public consumption until some nebulous later date, smacks of Gnosticism. At Fatima, the secrets were indeed for public consumption at the direction of the bishop, and later, the Holy Father.
None of these Medjugorjean "secrets" have been revealed to either the local bishops or the Holy Father, elevating the seers' to a level of uncommon power instead of humility. Visionaries are never in control, yet at Medjugorje, they are given open-ended power to withhold supposedly grave information even from the heirarchy!
One doesn't have to go anywhere to know this is simply not the work of God. The conversions are, however, the work of God – and they are the result of all that prayer. The danger is that those who have hitched their wagon to Medjugoje will refuse to unhitch it if/when Rome issues a final negative finding, and place themselves in danger of schism.
Most of you think that Medjugorje is real and thought that you have received graces from the Blessed Mother and conversions directly. But if, I say if, ultimately Medjugorje is proven false, like Garabandal, then what will you think about your conversion? Will you thank Satan? Will you not scream against the Church? Will you not be very confused? If the Church ultimately ban Medujugorje, I believe many of you will jump up and down in protest against the Church and probably begin swearing like the devil against the Church for its ignorance. Confusion is the best tool for Satan. Anyhow, human can never be as powerful, or as cunning as Satan, yet Satan can never be triumphant over our Blessed Mother. So, beware, do not deliberately put yourself to the test, but listen and be obedient to the Church. Never forget our Mother teaches obedience, and, especially, celibacy as a complete devotion to God, lacking, please walk away.
If people believe in God because of miracles, and not faith, then what good fruit is there?
If the miracles are false, the people are believing in the miracle and not god. And that is not good fruit at all.
My personal thought is that Medjugorje is true. But I will conform to and teach, whatever the Vatican says.
What a slanted, awful article.
The local ordinary is against the apparitions. The Archbishop of Split before the war was in favor of the same.
Two previous commissions have allegedly investigated yet they neither came to the village, interviewed the children and were handpicked based upon their bias.
Rome took the extraordinary step of removing the investigation away from the local Bishop. That in itself is a refelction of his attitude and the dangers of pre judgment.
Lastly, the Tomislov matter is left Medugorge in 1983. He was in Italy. He left the franciscans and had nothing to do with the children and they deny he was a spiritual counselor. He has issues, like all of the rest, and it is called sin. But to link his moral failure to the equivalency of somehow an implied linkage to these events is absurd.
Millions have converted. Millions have found peace. Millions pray now. By their fruits?
The Church will do the right thing. Everyone just needs to calm down.
Dcn Tim Treadwell
I have been to Medjugorie in 1989…I do not believe the Blessed Mother is appearing there…I have been to Lourdes, Fatima laSalette….many numerous appartition sites that habe been approved. I felt a big difference at the approved sites. For one thing, when she was to appear during Mass to Ivan, the church was full and we were outside, he stood around outside until "apparition time", then went into the choir loft for a couple of minutes, came back outside, had a cigarette and left…That did prove to me that something was "fishy"
Medjugorje is real. Check out this column/article on Medjugorje:
http://www.examiner.com/x-11053-Manchest er-Faith–Culture-Examiner~y2009m10d5-Pea ce-and-poetry-in-the-former-Yugoslavia
I have been to Medjugorje, Lourdes, Fatima, and The Holy Land. All of these places left me feeling closer to Jesus when I left. However, the one place that has touched me the most is a place in Rome City, IN (yes, ROME CITY, IN) where the Our Lady of America apparitions and messages were given in 1956 to Sr. Mildred Neuzil (Ephrem).
Unlike Medjugorje, the Our Lady of America messages and appritions have received formal Church approval and are so much further along the path to confirmation than medjugorje will be until all these visionaries are dead and gone.
This property is in danger of being lost to foreclosure. The owners and caretakers are preparing it as a home for retired priests and nuns who need a safe place to live in community and offer pastoral care to the many visitors who come seeking Our Lord and Our Lady's intercession. Please help if you can.
Go to www.oltiv.org and www.ourladyofamerica.org for all of the messages and informaation on how you can visit (free of charge) and help to preserve this place as house of prayer and pilgrimage to truly honor Our Lady of America at the place of her birth in Rome City, IN.
Leo the Lion wrote;
THE GREATEST MIRACLE is not halfway around the world,,,, it is in your parish church at the altar,,, When the Bread and Wine becomes the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ AMEN.
Am I right?
Leo, you are absolutely correct. The Kingdom of Heaven is nearer than most appreciate. We can receive our Lord each and every day if we so desire. The problem is that so many do not desire it or are completely oblivious to the fact that He truly exists in the Holy Eucharist.
One would think that if the greatest thing on earth were being passed out, for FREE, everyday at the local Church that there would be a line around the block waiting to get in. But, that's just not the case.
Now, we each are graced with free will to do as we please and so we can choose to be ignorant, but, presumably, every person, to some degree at some point in their lives, would gain some knowledge to the teaching of the Divine Presence in the Holy Eucharist. "Hey, have you heard, Catholics say they've got the real Jesus in their Church. Maybe we should check it out."
According to studies, 90 percent of Catholics who rarely or never go to Church do not believe in the Divine Presence in the Eucharist. Which makes sense – If you don't go then how can you know. These studies also state that over 60 percent of Catholics born after 1960 rarely or never go to Church. That's a whole lot of Catholics who don't know what there missing out on. And, this is a progressive trend because the majority of Catholics who are presently rearing children do not believe in the Divine Presence in the Eucharist. What's the likelyhood that the next generation, the children of today's children will believe in the Divine presence when their parents (today's children) aren't being taught by their parents to believe in the teaching.
And, these are the modern Catholics who drive by the Church on Sunday's on their way to Starbucks, never mind the other 5 billion souls on the planet who would prefer a Mocha latte to recieving the Eucharist.
So, in a world filled with the fantastic it has taken the fantastic, the apparitions of the Blessed Mother, to re-engage legions of Catholics to not only appreciate the reality of the Divine Presence but to be devoted to it. And, yes, it has taken some to travel half way across the world to love what existed just down the street from them.
It is certainly understandable for the Catholic who has remained faithful throughout their entire lives, and this includes many clergy, to not see the logic in one spending their 401K to travel to Bosnia when the Eucharist is provided for free in one's neighborhood. And, due to this perception that sees this behavior as illogical the individual then calculates that there must be a falsehood to the apparitions. Even to the point of suggesting that they must be ploy of the devil in his effort to distract the faithful from the neighborhood Eucharist. From the faithful's logic it is simply spiritually unhealthy to expend energy and thought on something that is superfluous to the sacraments.
This logic makes good sense, however, what the faithful (including clergy) don't factor into their calculations, because they don't see it, is that the body of the Church is eroding and as to why it is eroding. And, what they don't see is exactly what has been the work of the devil. This erosion, exemplified by the fact that the majority of child rearing Catholics don't believe in the Divine Presence of the Eucharist, is meeting the objective of the devil's plan. Eventually, as the erosion persists, the majority of Catholics will see the Eucharist only as symbolic and not see the True Presence of Christ.
This is the devil's plan on how to destroy the Church. The Church would not literally be destroyed, but, rather the perceptions within the body of the Church would be altered to the point where they would not be witness to the Real Presence of Jesus Christ. The wickedness to the plan is that the faithful would be duped into thinking they were practicing their faith when in reality they would just be going through the motions, assimulating the practice of Catholic religion.
HERE IS WHY THE MARIAN APPARITIONS IN MEDJUGORJE ARE REAL, because they are directly counteracting the devil's efforts to minimize the faithfulness of Catholics. Testimony after testimony speak on the impact of Medjugorje and how it has ignited passion and committment to the practice of Catholicism. The fruit of Medjugorje has been this infusion of devout practioners of the Catholic faith and how they have been influencing and praying for others to become passionate and committed to the practice of Catholicism. Medjugorje has provided a systemic healing to the erosion progressing through the body of the Church. The devil hates Medjugorje because it is constructing precisely what he has been deconstructing.
Just as Christ wasn't driving demons out in the name of Beelzebul, the devil isn't driving Catholics into Christ through our lady of Medjugorje. "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste and house will fall against house. And if Satan is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand?" It would be illogical for the devil to be poisoning the body of the Church, as well as, providing the antidote at the same time.
So, what will the Church do about the apparitions of Medjugorje?? Well, the devil wants Medjugorje stopped because not only is it halting his progresses, but, it is also repairing the body of the Chuch. The only way to stop Medjugorje is for the Church to rule against it and condemn the apparitions. This would stop the apparitions from influencing Catholics and cause damage to those who have been influenced by them. A negative decision would likely cause division among Catholics, in particular practicing Catholics (Non-practicing Catholics will be asking what's Medjugorje?), which would be to the delight of the devil. It would also likely cause dissension which would further damage the body of the Church. Condemning Medjugorje, being the most respected, would impact devotionals or interest to other unapproved apparitions, and Marian devotionals in general, which would further cause serious injury to the practioners of the Catholic faith.
Will it happen? We know that the Church won't be approving the apparitions anytime soon, and, as long as the devil has someone's ear there will be those calling for them to be condemned.
I have been to Medugorje twice – in 1987 and again in 2001 and nobody will ever convince me that Our Blessed Mother is not appearing there. The two most profound experiences of my life where I felt so close to Mary and Jesus happened there and it has changed my life forever. I feel that Mary is working so hard to save souls and I know I am a better Catholic because of this. She is there doing God's will and if people would only believe and pray and live the commandments we would have peace.
I read the book on Medjugorije many years ago,and have kept up on the Visions of these children. It's my understanding that only one of these children, now an adult still has visions. I do believe. And for you who don't that's your opinion, I have a right to mine. And to leave a blog you don't have to right a book. Just a few lines.
To all those who are so sure that Medugorje is a hoax, how will YOU react if the Vatican approves these apparitions? Probably the same way you accuse those who believe in Medugorje.
Why doesn't everybody just fast, pray the rosary, go to confession at least monthly, read the Bible and go to Holy Mass. No one could say those things are false.
I believe the children are seeing the blessed virgin. If the church says someday that we cannot believe in it then I will do as directed by the pope.
it also took alot of years before St. Faustina was believed. She was eventually condemned and then Pope Paul the second made her a saint. Thank you Jesus.
In March 1987, I was invited to view a videotape of an event that was occurring in Medjugorje in the former Yugoslavia. Several children reported that they had seen and were still being visited by the Mother of Christ. I found it quite interesting but did not form a real opinion about whether or not it were true. The friend, that invited me to the viewing, asked me if I wanted to go to Medjugorje to see firsthand. Without hesitation, I said yes.
I arrived in country in May 1987. I neither believed nor disbelieved anything that I had previously heard about the apparitions. I had an open mind.
I boarded a bus for the trip from Dubrovnik Airport to Medjugorje. Ten minutes into the ride, I witnessed the sun spinning in the sky. It was like a fireball.
The group leader announced that our purpose was not solely to witness the physical phenomena that were occurring but was mainly to experience the spiritual. The bus arrived at Medjugorje and we settled in for a 9 day visit in the home of a local family. The person that I roomed with was a Ph.D. candidate who was there to gather information for a dissertation on love.
The apparitions were said to occur weekly at the rectory of Saint James Parish. The church was a Rosary away from where I was staying. We walked to the church as a group and prayed the Rosary aloud along the way. I felt somewhat uncomfortable at first. I guess that I was feeling the remnants of a belief that prayer was more of a private matter and not to be engaged in such a public forum. I soon realized that passersby and everybody else were doing the same thing. Public prayer immediately became the norm and I embraced it. After exactly one Rosary, we arrived at the church.
The church and surrounding areas were filled with people. As I listened to the general conversations, I heard a variety of languages. Yugoslavia was an open communist country so people from all over the world could come and more or less travel freely. I thought, if the Mother of Christ were to appear anywhere in the world, this would certainly be the perfect place.
I attended Mass at St. James Church. The Masses were scheduled to accommodate the different languages. The first Mass I attended was an English-speaking Mass that was said by a visiting priest. The sermon was given by a local priest who spoke only Croatian and German. A woman in the congregation spoke German and English. She served as translator.
As the days passed, I began to feel and believe that this was, perhaps, the most spiritual place on earth. The spinning sun was pretty much a daily occurrence. People were giving out photos that had been taken by other pilgrims that showed the image of Our Lady. Others had reported seeing the huge concrete cross on Mount Krusivak spinning and turning crimson red. And others had reported seeing the Mother of Christ in the sky, holding the Baby Jesus. But this was not what was making Medjugorje a holy place. It was prayer that made it holy. Prayer was always the underlying theme. I prayed with the local Croatian people and I felt the strength of their prayer. I prayed with the visionaries and I witnessed their total conviction. I prayed with people from different parts of the world and I felt united. And I prayed with people of different religions and I became their brother.
On the day of the apparition, I walked to the church alone. I prayed the Rosary along the way. This was the first time I had ever prayed the Rosary alone.
The church was full when I got there so I went to the grassy area beside the church. There were loudspeakers outside so I could hear what was being said inside of the church. I was in full view of the rectory from the hilly area where I was standing. The visionaries would go there each Thursday to be visited by Our Lady. The rectory was about 75 feet from where I stood.
I heard what sounded to be a pack of barking dogs. The barking went on constantly for several minutes. Then, in one brief instant, the barking stopped abruptly and completely. It was at that moment that I felt that perhaps The Mother of Christ had appeared. I got down on my knees. My eyes focused on the rectory.
The church apparently had not yet been told that Our Lady had appeared, as the loud speakers were still active. Then there was silence. Except for the birds singing, there was silence.
My eyes remained focused on the outer walls of the room where the apparition was occurring. I felt honored and humbled at the same time. After all, who was I to be there in the presence of the Mother of Christ? Who was I to be in the company of One Who Is Most Holy?
I began to feel that that moment in time was most sacred. I wanted to live in that moment forever. This was not something abstract. This was real. I reflected on the Life of Mary and the events that took place nearly 2000 years before. I thought about Jesus and His followers and how Mary was in their company. And now, She was here. She was here with us.
As my eyes gazed upon the apparition room, what appeared, at first, to be a cloud, came through the wall. The cloud had form and substance and came directly toward me. I bowed my head. As the Spirit form passed by me, it very gently brushed the corner of my eye. It was like a feather. There was no doubt in my mind but that this was Mary. There was no question but that it was prayer, the Rosary, that I had said earlier, that brought Her to me. Within seconds, the visionary children exited the rectory.
As my journey to Medjugorje was ending, I found myself gathering any tangible evidence that I could, to bring home. I thought if I had physical evidence, it would help my family to experience this spiritual feast. I gathered rocks and soil from the very place where Mary first appeared. I bought posters and religious articles. I filled my canteen with water from a spigot located in front of the church.
On the day I was leaving Medjugorje, I brought my canteen to Mass. At the final blessing, I held the canteen up to be blessed. I have no recall of the return plane trip to the states. I must have been consumed by the thoughts of this wonderful experience.
The people of Medjugorje are vibrant and alive. They are strong in their convictions. They pray with a strong, united voice. It has been said that before the apparitions began, the different ethnic groups that occupied the area were in conflict. After the apparitions began, the conflicts went away. Prayer conquers all.
The Water
When I returned home from Medjugorje, I was still on fire with the memories of what I had seen and felt there. My mind, body and spirit were unified. No doubt could be found anywhere in my being that could challenge my belief that the Mother of Christ was indeed appearing in Medjugorje.
I joined a prayer service with a group of people that had also traveled to Medjugorje. We met in a church to pray the Rosary on one Thursday night each month. It was a Rosary like I had never prayed before. After each prayer, an accolade to the Mother of Christ was given. It was not just words. It was prayer with heart-felt meaning. And it was prayer with a multi-denominational group. Mary, the Mother of Christ, always leads us to Her Son. She intercedes for us. She invites us to live in God's Love.
I took a job that allowed me to read and think and meditate. It turned out that my working partner was spiritual, open-minded, and loving. She was a wonderful person. She became a very dear friend. After about a year and one-half, I had to leave that job. There was a chemical agent or something in the new carpeting that caused an old stomach condition to re-activate.
I met up with an old friend and we started a product development company.
The job required long hours and began to take a physical toll on me. It was exciting but I was not able to devote as much time to what really matters. I got physically sick. My doctor became concerned because my stomach condition had become somewhat life-threatening.
After 3 years on that job, I left. My physician scheduled a stomach biopsy. I knew what that meant. He was looking for cancer. I had suffered from a stomach disorder for 20 years.
On the night before the scheduled biopsy, I removed my shirt and lay down on my young son's bed. I poured some of the water that I had brought from Medjugorje into my hand. I rubbed the water on my stomach while saying the following prayer out loud: "Heavenly Father, I come to You in Jesus Precious Name and I ask You to heal my stomach, Amen." As I rubbed my hand across my stomach, I felt heat coming from my palm. I believed that I had been healed.
When I arrived at the hospital the following day, the physician that was about to work on me said he wanted another x-ray before doing the biopsy. The most recent x-ray showed three areas of concern: two in my stomach and one in the lower part of my esophagus. There were also old scars from where the original condition had activated and recovered over the twenty year period of time.
The physician came to me after the x-ray and said the x-ray was clear. The x-ray showed nothing. There was no need for a biopsy. I lived with the original condition off and on for 20 years. There were times, in fact, when the pain was so bad, I could barely stand up. That was when I was in my early twenties. The disorder has not returned.
There is no doubt, whatsoever, but that I was healed by the Loving Power of God. When I said the prayer the previous night, I also had no doubt, whatsoever, but that I was healed. Jesus said, "Whatever you ask of the Father in My Name, will be given to you." I believed Him.
It is now over 22 years since I left Medjugorje. I am still on fire with the memories of what I had seen and felt there. My mind, body and spirit remain united in belief. No doubt can be found anywhere in my being that challenges my belief that the Mother of Christ is indeed appearing in Medjugorje.
I apologize for the length of this post but I believe I have a responsibility to give testimony to my visit to Medjugorje. Peace to all.
Dcn. Tim [ABOVE] has put it well.
Remember that the vatican actually exiled s.pio for over 15 yrs and also s.faustina. so there's nothing to fear .
Faith is like that – but do the 'good works' also.
the vatican can say what it likes for now [ but has it got any evidence to cotradict the messages ? Personally, i think not.] Loads of priests, bishops and cardinals [ even THE english one !] have painted a 'pretty picture' – but this is not what it's about. Devotees are much too boastful- YES, INTOLERABLY SO . ['If you don't go to medj. it's because Our Lady has not called you ' ; or, 'if you don't see the sun spinning- you are not chosen' etc etc is the sort of rubbish that comes out of there – too frequently ; does one honestly believe that these are good fruits .
the other BIG problem is the Wealth that the seers are exhibiting. [ how bad is that ? even that exemplary catholic ,and ex-PM is seen to be 'rolling in it now'.
is that wrong – or just envy ?
the seers are human – they have families – are they not allowed to get wealthy ? [have they taken vows of poverty? or, maybe in some critical eyes – they should ?]
the Bishop is absolutely within his remit to 'guard and to guide those in his care ' and he will not yield his stance . so, collegiality will succeed – that's the score.
the very interesting question is – how does the church forbid Apparitions; the Bishops latest letters are an excellent example of the 'Procedure' – so much so i believe that his latest approach IS Vatican-backed.
These APPARITIONS seem to be impenetrable. they are also harmless to the Faith. BUT , QUO VADIS ?
Fr Slavko [and his brothers] always focussed on the Mass- he rejected all theories about the sun & rosaries turning gold etc etc . and when Fr Jozo began to 'slay in the spirit' he remarked jocularly : ' oh, so he's learned how to push' !!**
he was a believer but only if the mass had place of priority. all else must only direct one there.
We need to look to the Church, not an apparition. Whenever we take our eyes off of Jesus and His Church, we are like St. Peter who was walking on water as long as his eyes were on Jesus. When he looked elsewhere at the storm around him, he began to sink. If we pay significant attention to apparitions rather than the Public Revelation of God through His Church then we are in danger of sinking.
Bro. Ignatius Mary
forwarded by Leo the Lion
My husband, daughter and myself traveled to Medujorge in 1987. My life has never been the same since that time and neither has my husband's. I was a converted Catholic and accepted Catholism, but on my own terms. All that changed with that trip. There is no doubt in my mind but that the Blessed Mother is appearing there. They say by the fruits you will know, and I have only seen good fruit coming from there. The night before we left, the Blessed Mother blessed all of our marriages. Since that time, my husband and I have never had a serious fight and that's been over 20 yeaars. I had a major request while I was there and God answered that prayer in the most wonderful way. To Those who do not believe, I would say do not knock it if you have not been there.
I have a question. Why should people await for church's ruling on Medjugorje or any other appariton site? Most of the apparitions (The Lord, The Virgin Mary and Angels and Saints)comes directly from The Authority of God The Father in Heaven. If it comes directly from God The Father, what authority does the Catholic church have over God The Father???
I would like to share my incredible experience in Medjugore..There was suddenly a blinding light in my hotel room…..it sounded like a gas boiler being lite…when I looked across the room there was a very bright light in the shape of a flame it was a few feet above the floor and very large….I can'nt say I was'nt afraid but …it was in the middle of the night…..it seemed to last about 7 to 10 minutes….There was great peace in the room afterwards….However at the time I never told anyone..but on reflection the experience happened on the feast of Our Lady of the Rosary…I have since wondered if it was the special blessing of Our Lady mentioned at the back of the Pieta prayer book…but I am baffled as to why it happened especially to me…..I wondered can anyone enlighten me on what this could have been…However I have to say concerning Medjugore..it is most Holy place….
I knew it was a lie when I read the "tomes" which reported its claim to be "the way, truth and light" God has sent into the world in these last days. See it to be a lie and you have already dealt it its mortal blow!
[…] "It is not a sin to pray, it's not a sin to hear confessions, it is not a sin to give penance, this is a good climate. But this phenomena, apparitions or visions, falls to the (Vatican) commission," said the cardinal. "It is a very delicate question." Source. […]
John Paul II said if he were not the Pope he would go to Medjugorje. I do not believe the present Pope will condemn these appearances of the Mother of God which brings many conversions and healings..The truth will always prevail. May it be in our lifetime. God Bless you and peace to all.
There's objective traits of valid apparitions of Mary happening somewhere and they don't seem to be met at Medjugorje. I was in S. Korea and very close to Naju. I wish I could have gone, but the bishop said it's not to be visited. That was it. If it would seem any angel or Christ himself were defying Church authority, to whom he gave authority in his name over his flock, they would not be an angel or Jesus. Why? Because Satan can ape what God does. He loves disobedience to authorities. He'll influence superiors to punish good people to push people into disobedience. Once they do break away, they become lost lambs–easy prey for him.
The Catholic Church discourages belief that the Virgin Mary appeared to six children in Medjugorie, Yugoslavia. Yet, despite numerous Vatican statements and denunciations against the so-called apparitions, dissatisfied Catholics today continue running after this sensationalist lure only to become entangled in the web of deceit and error.
Beginning in 1981, six children under the direction of Fr. Tomislav Vlasic began making fraudulent claims of having seen the Virgin Mary in order to stir up mischief and to assist Vlasic's efforts to undermine the Church authority in Medjugorie. Today Medjugorie has grown into a worldwide cult that has served to undermine the Faith by bewitching the faithful with a new religion not connected with the apostles. (Charismatic Renewal)
The Charismatic Movement is a diabolical sect wherein the devil presents himself as the Holy Spirit for the purpose of luring Catholics away from the institutionalized Church. This was condemned by Pope Paul VI in 1969 when he said it attacks "the very existence of the Church… extinguishing the real flame of Pentecost." (May 17, 1969) That is, the Charismatic Renewal has no connection with the Holy Spirit.
Yet, Medjugorie has served precisely to advance the Charismatics and to promote the fallacy that their revolt from sacred tradition is the work of the Holy Spirit. It coincides directly with the so-called renewal of our time to depart from traditional practice and press toward a new pentecost which is Protestant in nature.
Among other things, Medjugorie teaches that we do not pray to Mary but that we pray with her, as if she were our equal. Under the pretext of honoring Mary they put her in her place and maintain the Protestant idea that we go directly to Jesus without her, which of course is not possible.
Accordingly, Medjugorie teaches that God works through other religions, which is heresy. God does not abide in other religions because the Dogma of Faith is that there exists no salvation outside the Church of Rome. To profess otherwise would place one outside the Catholic Church should they have had sufficient knowledge of this beforehand.
Hence, the Church denounces the Medjugorie visions on the grounds that they are an insidious attack on Catholic faith and morals. This denunciation is best reflected by the Vatican's recent verdict against Tomislav Vlasic, the founder and central figure of the Medjugorie movement. He was punished and stripped of his priestly status on July 27 because he disobediently continued with this movement after Rome denounced it in the early 90's following an ecclesiastical investigation.
This fulfills an earlier statement from Bishop Andrea Gemma, the Vatican's top exorcist, when he said, "Soon the Vatican will intervene with something explosive to unmask once and for all who is behind this deceit." The wolf who dresses up like a lamb has now been stripped of his faculties!
Vlasic earlier was suspended for failing to cooperate after he had been charged with scandalous sexual immorality "aggravated by mystical motivations." It earlier had surfaced that he had fathered a child with a nun named Sister Rufina, and that he had begged her not to expose him. He then moved to Parma, Italy, where he set up a male and female religious community, called Queen of Peace, a licentious order dedicated to Medjugorie and the Charismatic Renewal.
Needless to say, Medjugorie is not Catholic but is a wing of the New Age cult that only uses the name of Mary to gain the confidence of unsuspecting Catholics for the purpose of selling them on this renewist sorcery. Their babbling in tongues and foaming at the mouth is not a 'charism of the spirit' but a vile manifestation of the devil who controls this movement through its promoters, beginning with Tomislav Vlasic. It can best be described as demonism, for which reason Bishop Gemma described the Medjugorie visions as the "work of the devil."
With this same reasoning Cardinal Ratzinger [now Benedict XVI] banned pilgrimages to Medjugorie beginning in 1985.
The various statements against Medjugorie thus far do not constitute a formal judgment of Rome against the movement, though we are told the Vatican is now making ready to issue its verdict on the Medjugorie visions. The Church through the years has been sawing the Medjugorie tree down in pieces, but now Rome will take the ax to it seeing that it has no worthy fruits to its credit. "By their fruits you shall know them." (Matthew 7:20)
David Martin
Our Lady's Workers of Southern California
[…] of consciences, suspect mysticism and disobedience towards legitimately issued orders." Source "Benedict says that the Blessed Virgin Mary (BVM) allegedly making daily appearances in the […]
I pray to God that the Catholic Church be illuminated by the Holy Spirit so that the statement that will be made on the apparitions of Medjugorje be a truthful statement. My impression from what I have read is that it really is a truthful statement. The book written by Janice T. Connell named "The visions of the Children of Medjugorje" looks quite convincing to me. Also my heart is telling me that the visionaries are not lying.
i first went to medjugorje in the year 2000, i was cured of a growth their in year 2002, in the month of september , and during an apparition with ivan and our blessed mother, i was sat next to ivan, during the entire apparition, not only was i cured of a growth, but i witnessed with my own eyes, our lady during the apparition, the fact is this , medjugorje is true, our lady is appearing their, their were thousands of people their that night, and i know a priest who was sat close by me, who himself witnessed, something very special during that apparition , i have now been to medjugorje 35 times since the year 2000, i feel close to heaven in that village, their is a great number of people who have gone to medjugorje, who have become priests shortly afterwards, would the devil take credit for this ,he would take people from the ministry of god , not increase it, theirfore we have it in one instant , medjugorje is true , the work of the holy spirit, who prepared the way for our blessed mother mary, to give great graces to a multitude of people who have gone their, and whose very lives have been changed by the devotion to our lady and whose prescence her son jesus has in the blessed sacrament, to be at holy mass and to be at holy hour at medjugorje, makes my very soul that god gave me, dance for joy,at medjugorje, i know in my heart the mass is for the good of the church, why then in my own country, are changes takeing place in our churches, which isnt for the good of the church, god is whatching everything that is going on, his eyes are fixed on the wrong doers,my advice to you, is to come back to the church, before it is too late,
The Church has the last word in all of this, but if this is the work of the devil, then how come thousands and thousands of people have converted, changed their lives to be better Catholics?? Why would the devil want this??
Unless, the devil wants to destroy the faith of those thousands that once believed, by the scandal that could come out of this, if the Church now says that this was all a farce!!
I am unsure of whether Medjugorje is genuine or not. I have been there in the earlier years and more recently in 2002. I had no experiences there of any kind. I would only say that it is unwise to base your faith on any apparition. It would also be better to give the money to the poor rather than spending it on travelling to Medjugorje twice or three times a year. I know people who go there obsessively every year and even twice a year. We must be careful of this to avoid spiritual greed. These apparitions in Medj have also led to many false visionaries around the world promoting messages of their own claiming to see Jesus, Mary and the Saints (especially in Ireland). I know this apparently also happened with Lourdes where many false apparitions were reported around the same time as the authentic visions took place. It is inevitable that these visions also cause fanaticism which can give a place of genuine apparition a very bad name. Ultimately obedience to the Hierarchy is the true test of an authentic visionary. I am not sure whether obedience has taken place in Medjugorje. There is so much publicity about Medj on the net, it is very difficult to find something that just relates the facts in relation to whether they (the visionaries, or the Priests in Medjugorje) have been truly obedient or not. But again I would not base my faith as I stated earlier on an apparition whether it is authentic or not.
Jesus' presence in His sacraments is not dependent upon the ruling of the authenticity of the apparitions in Medjugorje. And His mother, Mary, is just as available to us throughout the world as she is to God's children in Medjugorje. Multitudes of people traveled there to pray and many were seeking some kind of reconcilliation. God can draw good out of evil intentions. And He did not disappoint the people who went to Medjugorje to seek Him. People who experienced a conversion in Medjugorje should not doubt the saving grace of God if the Vatican rules in the negative regarding apparitions there.
One of the visionaries claimed that her mother who had died a short time previously had appeared to her and spoken to her. This would seem to be contradicted by Scripture in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man which clearly states that a barrier has been placed between this world and the next so that no one can pass from one to the other.
I wish to confirm to you that Our Lady certainly still appears in Medjugorje. As a Queen of peace, She continuously points us towards her son Jesus, who is the prince of peace. Medjugorje is a place of peace and conversion. My relationship with God has certainly deepened since my pilgrimmage to Medjugorje in August 2009. Jesus I thank You. Our Lady Queen of peace I thank you. All for Jesus through Mary.
Sr kalu.
[…] Vatican ruling on disputed Medjugorje shrine expected soon (blogs.reuters.com) […]
i am a muslim but i love mother blessed and i love jezus and i love all commandments of God.i am hearing about medjugorje and i want to know sincerely if the Blessed Mother has realy apparetions or is the work of devil? I want to say that i am in doubt.I am remembering the word of Jezu that 'recently will come many in the name of me but you have to know Who is the real.But in the other hand i think how devil interced with the word of God.Why God permit devil to speak in His name?I dont know but sincerely i want to know!I love Jezus with my heart!
Just returned last night from Medjugorje, and I want to share with all of you my experience there. Maybe it might help any of you who have doubts on the fruits of this tree.
First of all, let me make clear my position on the apparitions. It is true that these apparitions have taken place for a long time, and all looks like a never-ending enigma, but this has nothing to do with the teachings that come from this blessed place. I believe in God, and all these teachings are His teachings. If they are not transmitted by Mary, as the visionaries say, than who else could be in God's name? It is very simple, and nothing invented: just pray, confess, fast, read the bible and go to mass!!! Mary is not requesting us to believe to her apparitions, but only to believe in her Son, Jesus Christ, and lead us towards him.
Given the parenthesis, I went to Medjugorje not with a curiosity to prove my faith, or to test if the apparitions were true. None of these! I simply went to experience the faith of this community and bring it back with me in my daily life. I go daily to Holy Mass, and fully believe in the presence of Jesus in the Most Holy Eucharist. But, unfortunately when the Mass is celebrated, most of the times it is only the Priest, I and 1 or 2 other people present in the church. Christianity is living God in community, and that's why it is important for everyone to make the experience of a strong believing community as the one in Medjugorje.
It is not important to know if the apparitions are true, because blessed are those who believe without having seen. The most important thing in Medjugorje are the super-long lines to confessions, the supernatural conversions and life consecrations to God, the loving silence during prayer, Mass and Adoration. The strong experience of a faithful Christian Community is the most convincing proof that Mary, our Blessed Mother, is guiding us to her Son.
So, if you decide to go to Medjugorje, go, and live God's presence in its fullness of a devoted community, and bring it back to your parishes. Don't miss for anything in the world the Adoration hour!!!
I know that some will find it hard to believe, but that's a long story going on for 2000 years now. Who believed Jesus when he was alive? Who believes in Him today? We Christians are losers for the world, but let's keep our heads up as the King is coming. Let's empty our hearts to make room for the Jesus Child, so Mary can deliver Him in the deepest of our inner and live with the love only He can give us.
God bless us all!
God's about to intervene in a way unlike any other in the history of the world.
I have been to Medjugorje and thank the Mother of God for her Blessings there. For Her showing me the importance of the Mass and Confession.
People better start getting priorties in the proper place and stop offending God.
There is no one yet who has come close to changing my position on Medjugorje. Ivan the visionary is my friend. I will defend it as much as I can. every arguement that I have read against it can be dismissed with a little bit of research.
BUT, if the Church ruled against it today, you would not hear another word out of me about Medjugroje. Obedience to the Chruch is a top priortity. Unlike the former Bishop who was told not to speak publicly anymore about Medjugorje and contunued after he was moved.
Medjugorje could be a horny headed demon with hooves!
Medjugorje is a horny headed demon with hooves.
Medjugorje was hatched out of the bowels of hell – An adulterous marriage between charismaticism and Mariolatry. It is a stench in the nostrils of a Holy God.
The roots of this phenomenon can be traced back to a grave yard where is buried a deacon; a disciple of Cornelius Jansen. What Jansen is most famous for is his treaties entitled "Augustinus" which he left for publication upon his death, after spending some twenty years of his life in its preparation. In it he readdresses the age old argument between Augustine and Pelagius in his attempt to dismantle the theology of the Jesuits and justify his rebellion against Rome in establishing the "old catholic church" in the Netherlands. His writings which have come to be known as Jansenism have been condemned as heretical by the Church.
The deacon we are considering had a reputation among his peers for sanctity and was quoted as saying that if any miracles were performed on his grave he wanted them attributed not only to Catholicism but to Jansenism and well. Now this is where history takes a curve.
It is the theological writings of Jansen that has gotten so much attention in many circles in the study of the history of the "old catholic church" and its origin. What has fallen between the cracks however, is the answer to the request of that deacon. Satan showed the reality of Jansen's pact with the devil when he showed up at that deacon's grave with some of the most bizarre manifestations to make their debut in Church history, many of which bear a striking resemblance to what we have seen happen in the heretical protestant sects over the last fifty years, even creeping into the Holy Roman Catholic Church in the late 1960's. The men who are responsible for this are creeps. They crept into the pulpit when nobody was looking, and have been spreading their false spirit throughout the Church like a cancer up to our present day – which brings us back to Medjugorje.
Now, the fornicating franciscans which are in rebellion to both their superiors in Rome as well as the Diocesan authorities in Mostar, where these sensational happening originated, have taken to concocting a false authority for themselves by going to none other than what is left of the "old catholic church" which is still there in the same geographical location, to get – you guessed it – a deacon!, masquerading as a Bishop to ordain priests for their new religion that they have desperately been trying to pawn off as Catholicism to the unsuspecting masses.
They have been successful in separating the people of God from their Bishops in the True Catholic Church by inundating them with what are supposed daily messages straight from Heaven via the 'Mother of God', thereby deceiving untold thousands through brainwashing techniques accomplished with the help of internet technology and old fashion gullibility. It's been an amazing feat to observe. Truly the work of some of the best con men the world has ever seen. The used car salesmen's old bait and switch pales in comparison to what we have been seeing take place right before our eyes.
The connection between Jansenism and Medjugorjeism is spiritual in nature. Basically, it's the same demon. The little rat has been hovering around in that area just looking for his opportunity to strike; and he found it in the disobedience of the six minions of the fallen angel that have been perpetrating this fraud for over twenty five years.
When disobedience in not checked, it leads to rebellion. And this is exactly what happened in the former Yugoslavia when six young people refused to obey their Bishop. And when rebellion is not put down swiftly, it leads to mutiny! Now, somebody's got to die in an attempt to restore order, regain control and prevent chaos. If this is unsuccessful then you've got witchcraft.
Rebellion is as the as the sin of witchcraft.
There is nothing more powerful in opening up a way to the demonic spirit world than rebellion; it's more powerful that pharmaceuticals. And the devil has taken advantage of this to demonstrate his wares to his unsuspecting visitors. Nothing has ever happened at Medjugorje that the devil couldn't do. So beware, my friend – Beware.
P.S. No one has ever seen "her" ears or "her" feet!
[…] because the weeds are so strong that they ultimately choke out the wheat. In both the case of Medjugorje and the Legion, this is exactly what the magisterium is doing now, and we would do well to listen […]
Reaction from the Church hierarchy
Pope John Paul II
The initial reaction to the movement by the Church hierarchy was cautiously supportive. Some initially supported it as being a harbinger of ecumenism (greater unity of Gospel witness among the different Christian traditions). It was thought that these practices would draw the Catholic Church and Protestant communities closer together in a truly spiritual ecumenism. Today, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal enjoys the strong support of the hierarchy, from the Pope to bishops of dioceses around the world, as an officially recognized ecclesial movement.[10]
Three popes have acknowledged the movement: Pope Paul VI , Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Pope John Paul II stated that the movement was integral to the renewal of the entire Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II (as well as then Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI) acknowledged good aspects of the movement while urging caution, pointing out members must maintain their link to the Catholic Church.[11]
Pope John Paul II, in particular, made a number of statements on the movement. On November 30, 1990, The Pontifical Council for the Laity promulgated the decree which inaugurated the Catholic Fraternity of Covenant Communities and Fellowships. Brian Smith of Brisbane, elected President of the Executive of the Fraternity, called the declaration the most significant event in the history of the charismatic renewal since the 1975 Holy Year international conference and the acknowledgment it received from Pope Paul VI at that time, saying 'It is the first time that the Renewal has had formal, canonical recognition by the Vatican.' [12]
In March 1992, Pope John Paul II stated
At this moment in the Church's history, the Charismatic Renewal can play a significant role in promoting the much-needed defense of Christian life in societies where secularism and materialism have weakened many people's ability to respond to the Spirit and to discern God's loving call. Your contribution to the re-evangelization of society will be made in the first place by personal witness to the indwelling Spirit and by showing forth His presence through works of holiness and solidarity.[13]
Moreover, during Pentecost 1998, the Pope recognized the essential nature of the charismatic dimension:
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are co-essential as it were to the Church's constitution. They contribute, although differently, to the life, renewal and sanctification of God's People. It is from this providential rediscovery of the Church's charismatic dimension that, before and after the Council, a remarkable pattern of growth has been established for ecclesial movements and new communities."[14]
The Papal Preacher, Rev. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, has written on the topic numerous times since 1986.[15]
Pope Benedict XVI affirmed the Charismatic Renewal during 2008.
Since I have heard of Our Mother appearing in Medjugorje, I am a firm believer. I do not need evidence since I know she is there. Just look at the visionaries and what they have gone through, yet they persevere. I never went to confession and church before, and since I heard of Medjugorje, I feel I am in the process of conversion. Thank you Blessed mother for bringing me back to your son, Jesus.
As a devout Catholic, I have been to Medjugorje on two occasions,2001 and 2003,and I experienced the presence of our Blessed Mother appearing in the home we resided. She didn't appear in the room in which we were gathered, but She appeared to Ivan in a room across the hallway, we all felt Her presence. The area had a drought for three months, so I prayed the rosary devoutly for rain, and it rained that very night, and off and on for two weeks. I was a skeptic, but after being their I'm a firm believer. My sterling silver rosaries turn to a gold color prior to going to Medjugorje, and I firmly believe She called my wife and I there as it is believed. Satan couldn't dwell is such a quiet, peaceful and holy place.