text:
Several of you mentioned the DodgerTalk program from yesterday and asked me to explain what happened so here goes:
For many years, DodgerTalk has been hosted by various people who either travel with the team or serve as a broadcaster and can provide an inside perspective on what goes on from day to day. This year, KFWB chose to change the show and to my knowledge, the host of DodgerTalk has not spoken with Frank McCourt, Ned Colletti, Grady Little or a single player or coach yet this season despite repeated offers from the organization to do so.
The only thing I've ever expected of any DodgerTalk host is that they present both sides of every argument rather than just let fans rail away (or praise) a decision, player, executive, etc.
Fair, balanced and informed reporting is all we are asking for.
So please continue to give your feedback here, both positive and negative. We pride ourselves on being one of the very few organizations in baseball that has this sort of forum for you to express your opinions and then know that people at the team are listening to what you have to say and taking it into consideration when decisions are made.
318 Comments
I believe your points are well taken, Josh. I'll also repeat what I said in the previous thread:
…" Josh, you have every right, as well as the responsibility to defend your employer and co-employees. Despite what some people have posted here, you run the best blog at mlblogs, and I'm sure that the silent majority of us appreciate and support your efforts. It's a shame that a few hot-headed, rude, self-important, self-proclaimed experts feel the need to impose their "expertise" and vitriol on the rest of us. Keep up the good work…"
It's somewhat self-serving to assume yourself as part of the "silent majority", isn't it ebbetsfld? Kind of puts you in the "self-important" category yourself as far as I'm concerned.
"The only thing I've ever expected of any DodgerTalk host is that they present both sides of every argument rather than just let fans rail away (or praise) a decision, player, executive, etc."
Josh, what do you expect? It's a call-in talk show. Find me ANY talk show that's "fair and balanced." They don't exist. It's all about fanatics venting their frustrations or screaming their euphoria. Me thinkest though doth protesteth too much…
The only thing I've ever expected of any DodgerTalk host is that they present both sides of every argument rather than just let fans rail away (or praise) a decision, player, executive, etc.
Josh do u really think there is a need for an argument?
The only positive things that happened this year is the Youngsters! The talent they have shown this year…
When you look at this season it was all negative! and if the dodgers dont make it to the playoffs it would just add up to those negative things that has happened!
i don't know josh… that is his show… u shouldn't have done that…
i have nothing against you josh, im just saying what i think it is!
Go DODGERS!!! let's make a run for the playoffs!
Josh, you have every right to stick up and praise your employer to the very end and this blog is appreciated, but this is America dammit and Bob Harvey can voice his opinions and I might add, it's nice to hear the truth over the air waves about this team once in a while to remind us that we're not in some Soviet indoctrination camp with no news from the outside world. We're not stupid, Kevin Kennedy's not stupid, Mark Grace isn't stupid, Vin Scully's not stupid, but Grady Little?.
it's an opinion that some of the blogers here are saying!
they are not trying to be the GM of the dodgers!!! what they want, what we want is a good management!
it's been a roller coaster ride with the roller coster sinking down alot than going up!
if u can accept what's been happening this year that's you…
everyone here has the rayt to express their feelings…
"hot-headed, rude, self-important, self-proclaimed experts"
Those are the people who wants to win!!!
Hey Josh,
this is why the fans are so ticked off with Ned Colleti:
Ned Colleti's Signings for 2007
Tomko 3,700,000
Furcal 13,730,196
Pierre 7.5 million (He will cost 9 and 9.5 million in years 4 and 5)
Jason Schmidt: 15,703,946
Nomar Garciaparra 8,516,697
Esteban Loaiza 7,500,000 (9 million in 2008)
Randy Wolf 7,477,969
Luis Gonzalez 7,156,599
Mark Hendrickson 2,925,000
Mike Lieberthal 1,150,000
Brady Clark 3,900,000
Total Cost for 2007 = $82,185,407
The San Diego Padre's roster total payroll for 2007: $58,235,567
The Arizona Diamondback's roster total payroll for 2007: $52,067,546
Keep in mind that the total salary for the 2007 roster is 109,251,333. That does not include what Ned paid to Kansas city to take Odalis Perez. I didn't include David Wells or Roberto Hernandez because they are only getting paid minimum, since they were both released. The dodgers are paying most of Brady Clark's and Brett Tomko's salaries (the San Diego Padres only have to pay them the leauge minimum at a deferred rate). The 12 players I listed account for 75.2% of the total salary for 2007
Everyone is ticked off with Grady little because he benches our best hitter who is hitting .335 and who has the best homerun to at-bat ratio in Matt Kemp. Grady Little is more concerned with pleasing the veterans than winning.
Fire Ned Colleti!!!
Hire Logan White
Fire Grady Little!
i doubt any dodgers' managment would open themselves up to a real call-in show where they have to answer fans directly. but if they want to, i'd love to hear it.
like ANY large organization (so i don't blame the Dodgers in anyway), every question has to be filtered and a nice answer prepared. that's how it is. check out those "on-line" chats…
an unofficial dodger-related host actually makes sense since it will be less "PR" and more of an honest call-in show.
the Dodger's PR staff has their forums and we fans have call-in shows to explain why we are all better managers and GMs than anyone else in the world…lol
right on i_thinkblue!
One of the things that Harvey pointed out is that the LA media has done a very poor (or nonexistent) job of covering the issues brought up during Dodger talk. Grady is given this blanket of acceptance even though he has done very little to earn it. Maybe its just the LA media not caring about the Dodgers, I don't know, but Dodger Talk is one of the few forums where Grady's inadequecies are addressed. In just yesterdays game, did anyone question Liebs pinch hitting or why Kemp has sat two days in a row? No. I don't know why we're supposed to blindly accept everything Grady has done. Is 3 and done in the playoffs last year a success? This is Los Angeles, if we can't give starting position to rookies (god forbid!) if we have to spend millions on free agent veterans who have "been there", if we can't go with a youth movement cause we're in a big market, then we can't blindly support an incompetent manager. Every other big market manager has to face crisitism from the media, but not Grady in LA for some reason. More than that, when he rarely is questioned, he often doesn't even give an explanation as to why he does the things he does. And wouldn't it be more "fair and balanced" if there was more places where a multitude of opinions are expressed, such as Dodgers talk?
excellent post jspelk2
I posted something that got lost at the bottom of the first of 2 threads that ran here a few days ago.
I think it bears repeating in light of ebbetsfield comments.
My post was in response to a POST BY AIEA6 which read in part,"How egocentric do some of you think you are to believe that you have the power to influence these management decisions, i.e., firing Grady Little, or Ned Colletti, or whoever else you feel are not doing what you (not the Dodgers) want to see.
aiea6 — I don't think any of us is egotistic enough to think that individually we could influence management decisions. But I do believe that hundreds of thousands of loyal Dodger fans COLLECTIVELY can and should have an effect on Dodger management.
Remember, WE ARE THE CUSTOMER. The old saying says,"The customer is always right." And when this many customers are dissatisfied with a product, or a feature of that product, a good business responds. Here, many, many customers/Dodgers fans are expressing a grievance — the performance of Grady Little. If the company/Dodgers choses not to make changes based on our grievances, they would be wise to concede that our opinions have some value and at least justify to us customers/fans the reasons they chose not to do so rather than to simply ignore us.
I don't expect any action on this front until after the season, but I do expect Ned to in some way address the situation after the season closes.
Also, remember that baseball holds a special position in American culture as a "Public Trust". This is both a sociological position, and a legal one. It is the reason, for instance, that baseball is exempt from Anti-Trust laws and why Chavez Ravine was handed over to the Dodgers for next-to-nothing (maybe nothing, I'm not 100% clear on those facts).
So, YES. DODGERS MANAGEMENT HAS A CIVIC DUTY AND A BUSINESS RESPONSIBILITY TO RESPOND TO FAN WISHES.
Jxpelk2, I concur everything you say. What frustrates me so much, is that Logan White had everything ready and set for Ned Colleti and Grady Little, but it's not being used.
I'm not particularly down on Ned. I certainly don't agree with all the moves he has made, but I do like what appears to be his philosophy — Give the team a chance to win NOW, while at the same time preparing for the GLORIOUS ERA that is imminent due to excellent minor league/draft management of the last several years.
That said, if Ned choses to take a hard line on keeping Grady, I wont cry a lot of tears if Ned gets the boot too.
nice posts martinloneykemp,
I concur.
Well isn't A. Martinez the bridge between KFWB and the Dodgers? He used to host Dodger Talk and Bob Harvey or was it Bill did it on the weekend. Whether we critique or praise, we are all Dodger fans with a deep passion for the team. Some of us just show our frustration in different ways. -Emma
I don't want to get into a debate, but I do want to clarify my position:
1) I, too, think Grady is not the man for the job
2) I'm not sure about Ned, but will give him the benefit of the doubt
3) I think all the posts here are justified and passionate…my beef is with the attitude some of us (not you!!!)express. There is no reason for us to be anything but gentlemen (and ladies)!
4) Personally, I've followed the Dodgers faithfully since 1948 (age 5) and have experienced all of the highs and lows, and believe me the present management is a vast improvement over Murdoch and friends!
5) At this point, we have to play with the cards we've been dealt, and the odds are against us. But hope springs eternal and I'd really rather not have to repeat those anguishing words from yesteryear, "Wait 'til next year". Let's put it together, pull together, worry about management after we're eliminated and KICK THE ROCKIES WHERE IT HURTS!
A. Martinez is lame.
Exhibit A – The "x-ray" lenses comment to Loney and Loney's look of annoyance…lol
that's why i don't like having an official PR person hosting shows. that's like state-media. you know, the ones in the communist countries?
i prefer my media hiding behind the banner of free-speech but really controlled by media conglomerates and answering to corporations…
ebbets, I echo your sentiments for the most part except we're not really playing the cards we've been dealt. There's an ace in our hand that sat 2 of 3 games against our division leader who is one of the top hitters in the LEAGUE with a minimun of 250 ab's.
Like Plashke?
I beg to differ with you messagebear. I believe that the direction that Inside the Dodgers took this year caused far more people to leave this blog than those who post here day after day.
If there is anyone in the (what you call) "self-important" category, it would be the select group of posters who go into their daily feeding frenzy off each other's daily Dodger bashings (and the bashing of those who disagree with them).
We are all aware of the short comings and the weaknesses of the 2007 Dodgers, and of the poor decisions made over the course of the season. But it is what it is.
If this season has shown us nothing else, it has certainly shown us that our future is VERY bright.
Please remember that, regardless of the differences in all of our opinions, we are all Dodger fans and we express our opinions differently.
By the way, how'd you like my throw yesterday when I threw back Chris Snyder's home run ball? I only wish that I had a strong enough arm for my throw to beat him to third base. I did make him look, though – Hahaha!
It was Adrian Garcia who made that lame x-ray lenses comment, not A. Martinez.
The problem I have with Ned (and Grady really) is that he has a specific philosophy that won't change. He values the wrong things in players like character over talent and experience over talent. These are ideas that aren't going to go away as his tenior progresses. He gets mininmal credit from me for not trading the kids but it is clearly evident from his free agent choices that he did not trust them to have any kids of impact this year and about that he was very wrong. He has not sacrificed the future for the present but he has also laid down roadblocks at certain positions that are not that easily removed. He probably (and who knows to what extent) has limited what the team can do financially in the offseason by spending lavishly on mediocre players.
thanks t-bolt…
then i must apologize to A. Martinez. I should know better, cause he's the one who does the in-game fan trivia for coke prizes…and that is NO WAY lame…
Hehe, that's lame too.
Check out the latest "article" on the home page – more bs from our buddy Gonzo.
Hey Josh, but you didn't explain what happened yesterday. Is it true what Bob said ? That you called during a commercial break and told him that Dodger talk was an "Embarrasement" ? If you did do that, I think it was wrong in your part. Bob actually does a good job in talking about the Dodgers. Just because he is not kissing anyone's behind does not mean he is not a good host. What's funny is that almost all the callers agree with him, so obviously most fans agree that the Dodger management is doing a terrible job. Bob has a right to say what he wants and for you to tell him what to do is wrong.
Next year, the Dodgers might go to a new station. Does this mean, the Dodgers will try to choose a station that will blindly say good things about the Dodgers ? Look at the L.A. Lakers, they are at KLAC 570 am and they do a great job covering the Lakers. The last couple of years, it has been a nightmare for the organization and they talk about it openly. To be honest, they talk to much Lakers and I hate it. But if you are a big Lakers fan, then you love it. Being a big Dodger fan, I want them to find a station where you can get that kind of coverage.
Any update on the radio status for next year ?
I saw that bud. Nice throw.
You sure catch a lot of those. How many is that? I know you got Olmedo's early this season before the premier.
"Playing long enough, you can see when the rope is slipping away. Guys start pressing and trying to do too much," said Gonzalez, who was eliminated from the playoffs last season in September as a member of the D-backs. "That's where you hope that experience that guys have takes over, because those guys have been there before and learned from it. That's what carries a team down the stretch."
I will take Kemp and Ethier over gonzo the rest of the way…this year and for the next 10.
Gonzo & Nomar will carry us now down the stretch? i guess so, since they've been rested up from NOT CARRYING us during the season like Loney, Martin, Kemp, Ethier, Bills, Broxton, Saito…those novices.
Well then Maybe Mr. McCourt shouldn't have fired (or not rehired) a loyal dodger baseball guy in Ross Porter? Mr Dodgertalk himself.
You see when you let go of or allow some 75 to 100 loyal lifetime dodger employees, this kind of thing happens.
But really all Josh is asking for his fair coverage and for all voices to be heard and that's how it should be. So I have one question for Mr. McCourt for ya Josh…
Were our expectations for 2007 met?
LOS ANGELES – Paul DePodesta was fired as general manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers on Saturday.
Team owner Frank McCourt cited the team's lack of success as the reason DePodesta was let go.
"Our high expectations were not met," McCourt said.
OMG this article is such a joke:
But there's also a lot of balancing to do, because the Dodgers are one of the youngest teams in baseball.
Does this guy even know how to COUNT? The Dodgers are one of the OLDEST teams in baseball. Their average age is OLDER than the GIANTS thanks to a certain crusty old fellows. What is this guy smoking?
junger, I can't wait to read that again, but insert "Ned colleti" instead of "paul DePodesta."
or do we not expect to make the playoffs anymore? after all our expectations werent met in 05 when we lost this year equivelent to furcal, saito and kent out for the year and that year we didnt have loney, kent, abreau in others to fill up when veterans got hurt or got demoted.
look it up here if you don't believe me. every teams average age:
i meant to say:
year we didnt have loney, kemp, abreau and others to fill up the roster when veterans got hurt or got demoted.
"said Gonzalez, who was eliminated from the playoffs last season in September as a member of the D-backs."
Who wouldn't want that kind of experience and leadership?
I believe we all have a right to vent our frustration with a "product" that isn't working. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have no problem with Ned Colletti, he's made mistakes but so has every GM, the problem is Grady. You cannot put the same emphasis on the mistakes of a GM compared to those of a manager. A GM signs a guy who is coming off a season where he hit .300 and had 30 HR and drove in 110 runs (examples) now you sign him for 4 yrs at 34 million bucks. When he signs with your team, everybody is happy with the GM, now the guy comes here and he hits 260 hits 18 HR and drives in 75 runs, well he's a bust and the GM is to blame. Why? You can't predict success, now if the manager has a guy who is hitting .300 and has 10 HR's in the last 25 games and he benches him to play a guy hitting 250 and 8 HR's total, different story. If the manager refuses to bunt runners into scoring position, then you are impeding success. Based on this, I believe that we give Ned Colletti the benefit of the doubt, but Grady Little, I just don't understand what he's doing. In the words of Mark Grace "he may know more about baseball and managing a team than me, but, wow…"
It was only my second live homerun ball ever, with the Saenz HR ball being my first (thanks for remembering). I have caught hundreds during BP, but these are my only two live game homerun balls.
What is funny about it is that I swore to myself many years ago that I would NEVER throw back an opposing team's homerun ball. It is a stupid thing to do. Nobody ever throws back an opposing team's foul balls, so why on earth would they throw back a homerun ball? After all, you are lucky to even GET a homerun ball. Well, as you can see in the video clip, I couldn't throw that ball back fast enough. Although I was angry Snyder for his cheap, bounced-off-the-wall homerun, I was even angrier at Loaiza for walking the two guys in front of Snyder. Four of the D-backs six total runs were the result of walks and that su cks!
A GM signs a guy who is coming off a season where he hit .300 and had 30 HR and drove in 110 runs (examples) now you sign him for 4 yrs at 34 million bucks. When he signs with your team, everybody is happy with the GM, now the guy comes here and he hits 260 hits 18 HR and drives in 75 runs, well he's a bust and the GM is to blame.
But you can blame the GM if they didnt bring that guy in and try, when all of BASEBALL knew in October of last year that it was THAT exactly what would keep the dodgers from making the playoffs this year if they didnt go out and get a bat like that.
earlier this year, i caught Glaus's HR which was my first ever…and after a second, I threw it back. it one-hopped and luckily furcal turned around and caught or it would have hit him in the back 😦
i've always wanted to try and throw it back in time so the player would see it before he got to third.
but, i'm not keeping a HR unless its a Dodger or a HOF guy like Pujols, A-Rod, Griffey, etc…
You threw that thing back before I knew it was over the wall. Great job. Looked like you knew it was going back before you caught it.
So Bob Harvey goes on the air and publicly wonders why Grady Little rested Martin in a crucial game the day before an off day, and why Kemp was benched for 2 days before an off day — somethingall the fans are wondering as well — and the Dodgers give him **** for it? Give me a break.
Wow…nice article…they got quotes from Gonzo, Nomar, and frickin' Blowberto. Guess Grady is planning on letting Martin catch both games tomorrow with the 2 days off.
Fire Grady Little!
Bob Harvey says in public what quite a few fans think in private or on message boards. We're season ticket holders for over 7 years and every year I've become more and more disgusted by how this teams is perceived to be run, the product that is provided, and the price at which this comes to the fans.
I personally don't like the management style that Grady seems to put on the field. Perhaps I'm missing something behind the scenes, but the team often seems to take on Grady's laid back, "We'll get them tomorrow" attitude. It only seems as though it's been the last few games where Grady has finally said it's now or never.
He seems to be a players manager. That's great if you're trying to win citizen of the year award, but he's not. It just seems as though he's catering to the egos of some very talented and some lesser talented ML baseball players. His statement last weekend about pulling Penny with 82 pitches seemed to be a glimpse into his bizarre, player / stat driven reasoning. "He was pitching far too good a game to get in position to lose a game right there.". That's a bunch of garbage. It's the end of the season. That's your Cy Young candidate starter and he's well under his normal pitch count. Why change the game's course at this point? That was Penny's game to win or lose at that point, but to say he didn't deserve to lose it because he pitched so well prior to that point, tells me that Grady felt as though some deserved to lose the game. That's a mental miscue and a submlinal message sent.
So in Penny's next start, Grady sticks with him with 104 pitches through 4 innings. Again he hits for himself, and is brought out for the 5th, where Penny promptly gives up the lead. If not for the heroics of the offense in the bottom of the 5th, Penny gets a loss. Would Grady have considered that a deserved loss? Shouldn't he have come out and said that Penny deserved to lose that game. I mean it's the same thing. It worked out, but it seems that Grady is often bailed out by something working out, but it honestly made no sense to leave Penny in the game, other than to give Penny a shot at a decision, which is what I'm certain Little was doing.
Josh, I'm sure you know Grady on a personal level, but from an external point of view, the man seems completely lost and clueless. I could care less if Brad Penny gets a loss or a win. He should give a **** as to whether the team gets a win. Grady just seems so incredibly random with so many decisions and as a fan, it's aggravating.
Furthermore, another indicator that there is some sort of motivational issue with the Dodgers, and this goes back several years, is the record against the Padres. Now they seem to have average out a little this season, but in the past, the Dodgers have been beat by inferior Padres teams with regularity. Baseball is a mental game, and motivation can sway a game considerably. The Dodgers have not put management and players into place that seem to have a motivational drive. Perhaps it's a side effect of high priced players that only care about their careers, or a lack of cohesive years together for players, but it just can't be a coincidence that the Dodgers get their butts handed to them every season by the Padres.
All that said, I personally feel as though Grady lacks the personality and drive to be a ML manager. It just appears as though the players play down to his personality, dead and without fire or inspiration. Again, I know you know him personally, but from the exterior, this is how he appears to many. The "we'll get them tomorrow" attitude is bs for guys playing at this level. You tell little leaguers that, not highly paid professionals. Sure you put every loss behind you, but there are better ways to instill a killer / winning mentality.
My greatest hint that it is just not the Dodger Talk guy that feels this way and it is not just all of the bloggers etc is Vin Scully. I have never heard him in 31 years of listening to the Dodgers be as critical of Dodger management as I have this year. He has mentioned repeatedly how well the Dodgers would be doing in the standings if James Loney had been with the team all year. he points out the stats and states how he can't beleive that he was sent down. Vin has made several other small jabs at management over the past month and I think even the most consumate professional in the game (Vin Scully) is frustrated at watching what is a very talented team be so mismanaged. I am waiting for you to go on the air with Vin and tell him not to say these things. By the way guys, just a guess but with all of us being so critical, I would guess that this blog will disappear before next season.
You can listen to yesterday's dodgertalk at kfwb's dodgers section for free.
Oh and after 7 years with season tickets, I have only had the opportunity to see 3 playoff games at Dodger stadium, one of which was a win. But the cost of my tickets have doubled and the cost of parking has doubled, and I'm sure consessions have increased in a similar fashion.
So spin that PR ****. The only saving grace is ticket exchange, but I suspect tickets will go up another 20-30% next season and Frankie will justify the rising cost of sewage disposal or something along those lines.
I realize that I have the right to stop following the team (which this year has been minimized compared to other years), but I've grown up following the Dodgers and I love baseball, but what's being sold to me right now is not the Dodgers and is not baseball. It's the management / babysitting of a bunch of overpaid athletes. As a fan, I could care less about their win / loss records. I still remember Penny throwing a complete fit for being taken out of a game in AZ after he just gave up 6 straight hits and was about to surrender the lead. He threw a fit because he wasn't going to get a decision in that game. Seems like his previous trantrums have worked out for him, Grady is well conditioned and trained now.
Cosmow & Blonde:
You guys are hitting the nail right on the head. Keep it up!
please, i implore everyone to read the "vets leading the stretch run piece" Its complete garbage. For the gazillionth time, WITHOUT THE YOUNG KIDS WE WOULD BE WORSE THAN THE GIANTS.
I'll put in my Australian perspective on the Dodger Talk programme. Up front I must say I've been in the Australian media for over 40 years and I listen to Dodger Talk albeit after it has been archieved.
It appears to me to be a fan driven sports talk show and if Dodger management does not like it then start a show of your own. Organisational Radio is always biased toward itself and there is never a need to ring the station during a commercial break to complain. Just make sure the script is prepared well in advance for all your callers.
Josh, as the PR Man for the Dodgers is obligated to protect Dodger Management (he'd soon be out of a job if he didn't) but if this blog is to continue then he has to learn to take the good with the bad.
BTW I think "Dodger Talk" is outstanding sports radio.
To hear some people talk, multitudes of fans have left this forum this year because of the critical tone that this blog has assumed. Could it be that the product on the field and its management have colored the tone of the comments on this blog, as well as the Talk Show that is being discussed today. I think so. I'm not condoning personal attacks on people who express a different point of view, but I do sense and personally feel the frustration and even a sense of betrayal by this management of expectations that we rightly held at the beginning of this season. Both Colletti and Grady have failed to meet the expectations of the fans for this team, and unless Mr. McCourt chooses to lower the bar on his own expectations, he'll do what's right for the fans and for the future of the Dodgers and FIRE BOTH COLLETTI AND GRADY.
Yeah totally. First we get the Plascke article which says well Grady has done a great job, I will cover his butt because he covered mine.
Now this..if the dodgers worked as hard at winning as they do at covering up why they can't win, maybe we would be somewhere.
All year management has done nothing but smear the kids.
Where is the article today talking about Jeff Kents poor base running?
If not for Kemp, Martin, Loney and Billingsley- the dodgers best OF, best SP, team leader and best infielder, yeah 4th place for sure.
Josh, I posted this in the last blog and I'm posting it again here.
Granted, the following is just one columnist's opinion, but "holy cow" from the L.A. Daily News' Paul Oberjuerge:
"The Dodgers have an unhappy clubhouse.
"They are a team in only one sense: They wear the same uniform. (At least until the next clubhouse-churning trade.)
"The Dodgers' 2007 motto might as well be: "All for one and none for all." It's every man for himself.
"All you need do is spend a few hours in the dismal and dreary cellblock that is the Dodgers' clubhouse to pick up the energy-sapping vibe.
"Is there any team with a winning record in baseball that seems to enjoy itself less than the Dodgers?
"Any team with less apparent chemistry or camaraderie?
"Any team where surliness is more readily accepted as acceptable behavior? Any team with less clubhouse leadership?
…"The team's natural leaders, veterans Jeff Kent and Nomar Garciaparra, are reticent to a fault. Maybe you get that way when you're in the latter stages of careers and feel as if speaking up brings nothing but trouble. (Remember Kent and his abortive 2005 attempt to straighten out Milton Bradley?)
"Some of the self-impressed kids have heads rapidly outgrowing their ball caps. Which rankles some veterans. Who are considered irrelevant by some kids.
"And if they all wanted to talk about it, not that they really do, serious issues of language arise in a clubhouse where English, Spanish, Japanese and Cantonese are native tongues.
"And, anyway, perhaps all they might agree on is this: They have little respect for management."
please, i implore everyone to read the "vets leading the stretch run piece" Its complete garbage. For the gazillionth time, WITHOUT THE YOUNG KIDS WE WOULD BE WORSE THAN THE GIANTS.
Posted by: firstname.lastname@example.com | September 17, 2007 02:53 PM
You got that right. Call it propaganda, putting a spin on what's happening, or whatever, it's still a crock!
As far as most of the previous postings..WOW!
I haven't been blogging here all that long, but I've been a life long fan of this team, no matter where I live. These are by far the most passionate, intelligent, and insightful views I've seen to date without all the nasty mud slinging, name calling, or just getting too carried away-for the most part. From what I've read today, everyone has covered every aspect of the team, and management I would care to discuss, or 'vent' on the way this season is shaping up. Everyone has covered all the bases so to speak.
Great postings Dodger fans!!!
We still got a chance for a wild card-barely, but I'm not giving up just yet!
Quoting the last sentence from the Daily News article noted above:
"and let Ned Colletti take another whack at team chemistry during the coming offseason."
Please, oh please don't let that happen. I'd rather have Logan White in charge trying to do that for next year.
Re: Chemistry
From what I've noticed, the younger guys seem to have pretty good chemistry (Ethier, Martin, Loney, Kemp, etc…) with chest bumping and leaping high fives. The wet blanket "veterans" are blocking them and so the clubhouse is divided understandably.
I plan on attending Saturday's and Sunday's game against the DBacks in Phoenix this coming weekend. I hope that by then we are not just playing out the season, it would be a huge disappointment to go into Chase and have all the DBack fans remind me how they're in and we're not. The problem I have is not with the DBacks making the post season, it's that they got there with a lesser team than us. The DBacks have good young talent, but not as good as ours. I would take Kemp, Loney, Martin, Ethier and LaRoche over Young, Drew, Montero, Reynolds and Upton any day of the week. The difference is that Bob Melvin plays his young guys with no regard to what the veterans may feel is disrespect. When they brought up young Mark Reynolds he promptly started hitting like crazy and hit 4 home runs in his first 4 games, Chad Tracy now watches him from the bench. Chris Young is hitting .233, but Melvin stayed with him and he has 30 HR's and 61 RBI's out batting mostly in the leadoff spot. I find it disappointing that our young guys don't have that kind of leeway because of Gonzo and Pierre and Nomar. It will be very disappointing to be left out of the post season because it will lead to another winter of discontent and what should have been. If we miss the playoffs where is the improvement going to come from? Free agent signings, trades? No need, the talent is in house, the problem is in management, field management, lack of leadership lack of vision, the problem is Grady Little and no one in house sees it. It is very sad that Frank McCourt has done such wonderful things for this organization and the city of Los Angeles, I consider him to be a very good owner, but he can't see past his own shadow to realize that the problem sits within his sights.
If anyone missed yesterday's DodgerTalk on KFWB, please check it out at kfwb.com and hear for yourself Bob Harvey's comments regarding Josh and the Dodgers PR spin.
You sound like a stand-up guy, and I really appreciate the hard work you've done on the blog and so on. And I agree that people on this blog are getting ridiculous with the personal attacks. That said, I have to say that I think you're completely off the boat on this Dodger Talk issue. I agree with the other bloggers that Dodger Talk has been one of the few (if not only) sources for unvarnished opinions about the Dodger management. If you're going to provide a means for fans to call in, I don't think it's your or management's place to try and censor that talk. The fact is that the VAST majority of Dodger fans on this blog, the fan board, and otherwise believe the Grady (while a very good player's manager) is a horrible in-game manager and that Ned and Grady place far too much emphasis on veterans just because they're veterans.
If Bob Harvey is only cherry-picking fans with negative comments, that's one thing. But that's simply not the case.
Finally, if the Dodgers want to have a chance to respond to Bob Harvey's criticisms, maybe it should take the chance to do that during the post-game interview and Dodger web stories. Instead, when tough game decision questions are asked during post-game interviews, Grady gives us cryptic responses like "Well, you guys don't know what's going on behind the scenes." It's obvious that management has heard our concerns, and simply disagrees. At least give us our chance to vent our concerns.
i thought gonzo is a great club house guy?
"Playing long enough, you can see when the rope is slipping away. Guys start pressing and trying to do too much," said Gonzalez, who was eliminated from the playoffs last season in September as a member of the D-backs. "That's where you hope that experience that guys have takes over, because those guys have been there before and learned from it. That's what carries a team down the stretch."
sounds to me like he is doing everything to be notice!
We are still in the hunt coz of the kids! everyone knows that! why would he say things like that…!
all in all! i guess i can say that he is not a great club house guy!
Thank god for Loney's expierence.
Where would he be without it?
Matt Kemp would hit .347 if he just had a little more expierence. If he had been there before he may have been allowed to play.
I said to my family that I would have done exactly what you did. Thank you for helping me visualize the disgust I was feeling after those two walks and the line drive off the top of the wall. You throwing it back on the field was like me throwing up at our management and the game.
Billingsley gets rallied for two many pitches thrown.
Grady pointed it out on Friday.
If he had been more veteranish he could have thrown 104 pitches in 4 innings like Penny. I's just that he is not veteran enough.
Man you guys are just so negative on here I don't even want to read the posts anymore.. Yes it's been a tough year, but we are still in the race! With all the injuries we've had, to still be alive with a couple of weeks left is a decent accomplishment. Yes, I'd like to be in first place… but hey we could be fans of the Devil Rays or Royals or some other perenial doormat that never goes anywhere. I think its a mistake to fire management at this point. The Dodgers need some stability and constantly firing the GM and Manager every couple of years is a terrible way to go. Most of you want to turn this team over to someone else with no experience of running a club… that doesn't really work for me.. I'd like to let these guys have at least another year.. It's easy to sit back and slam the team on message boards but when you are actualy making the decisions and dealing with the players on a daily basis I'm sure its much more complicated.
As for Dodger Talk.. personaly I miss the way the show was years ago when Rick Monday and Ross Porter did the show.. thats the way the show should be.. not the snarky slam fest it is today.
I'm sure it was that veteran experience that caused Jeff Kent to get thrown out on the basepaths, down two runs with two outs and THE BASE AHEAD OF HIM OCCUPIED.
Gonzo is just trying to toot his own horn with that statement. The young guns have carried this team lately more than him. He's far from consistent. He has one decent game, and then doesn't do squat for the next few. He just doesn't fit here being a the one dimensional player he is. His fielding, and arm are horrendous. Let him go to the AL where he belongs. Thankfully he won't be back in Dodger Blue next year. Adios!!
Just like Kemp gets reprimanded in the paper every time he makes a baserunning mistake, but "vets" like Kent get a free pass.
jjriley, gonzo played fairly well the first half of the season and has had a few good games recently… yes he had a prolonged slump in the second half, but he certainly has helped us win games and he doesn't deserve the animosity from you.
spanner is Grady Little
hey spanner (who doesn't want to blame management)
Why don't you ask management where Ross Porter is then?
There are plenty of candidates for both GM and Manager with enough experience and "NEWSFLASH", this is LOS ANGELES and that's why we demand better.
I wasn't around here for Sunday's game, but I was listening to it on the radio and when Lieberthal came up in the fifth with two on and no out (and because I hate bunting, especially that early in the game), I was yelling at Grady that he should be PHing for BOTH Lieberthal and Loaiza with left-hand hitters like Sweeney and Young – at least force Bob Melvin to consider if he's changing pitchers or not – and sending in Moeller to catch if Russell Martin is going to continue to have the day off.
Die-hard fan since 1980. Regular lurker here and poster at Dodger Thoughts. Count me in the camp that yesterday's Dodger Talk was the best I've heard all year. Please don't fault Bob Harvey for attempting to deliver an honest and informed assessment of the team. The host of Dodger Talk is not there to defend the team and recite the press notes. There's nothing mean-sprited or excessively negative about yesterday's show. I believe the team has left 5-6 wins on the table this year through game strategy and more importantly roster management. I appreciate a host who might share that point of view and doesn't feel obligated to sugar-coat his opinions. Please don't deliver a whitehouse spin version of Dodger Talk in 2008! Thank you. – Brian Greene
From Spanner ..
As for Dodger Talk.. personaly I miss the way the show was years ago when Rick Monday and Ross Porter did the show.. thats the way the show should be.. not the snarky slam fest it is today.
I guess then that you like Fox News and it's biased look at the world. Dodger talk is outstanding radio. Just because it doen't toe the party line doesn't make it bad. I appreciate the unbiased look at Dodger baseball and as a broacaster myself I applaud Bob Harvey for not being "just another Organisational mouthpiece."
The last time KC won a WS was 3 years before we last one won. So we pretty much already are.
There are fine candidates for GM within the organization. Kim Ng, for example. I'd hazard a guess she'd listen to the good talent evaluators more than Ned does, and ask for some objective evidence that players, particular "proven veterans" have enough left to justify signing them, e.g., Tomko, Hendrickson, Hernandez.
This blog and DodgerTalk are pretty similar. If you sift through the junk you'll find some really intelligent baseball fans. Problem is for every Jungar there are 15 guys like DieHardBlu.
The truth lies somewhere in the middle. This organization isn't as incompetent as most bloggers and DodgerTalkers believe but the competency level isn't near what Josh portrays.
Scott, I didn't say you can't disagree with management.. its the tone of hostility towards them that bothers me. It seems everyone here is in love with Logan White.. I'd rather keep the current guys in place than turn the team over to him..
As for Ross… well… I'd certainly rather he still be here than Charley Steiner.. when Steiner and Rick get off on one of their idiotic tangents its a little hard to listen to… but it could be worse… we could still have geoff witcher doing dodger talk.. he was terrible..
My point was that Dodger Talk used to be a place where fans could call in and talk to someone with at least some connection to the team.. where you could disagree and have discussions… but they could give you some inside scoop.. Harvey is basicaly just some random guy and "A Martinez" is pretty useless.
spanner, what is your objection to Logan White? I don't see him as an ideal GM because his forte is talent evaluation (unbelieveable draft dividends so far, eh?), but the GM job is largely business, thus my suggestion of Kim Ng earlier. Still, White is extremely valuable and his skills need to be kept (and maximized by actually ponying up a couple more bucks to sign the draftees!)
Thanks for that great article..couldn't have said it better myself..By the way, I think Bob Harvey is great..I am a constant caller into him and he is a gentleman with great baseball views in my opinion…Anyway, he agreed with me about 2months ago when I said, "Ned lost this season for the Dodgers in the off season"..I still believe that with the moves he made..Thought Schmidt was a bad signing before he was hurt..among others…and Grady will never be capable of leading the Dodgers to anything but mediocrity…and I, for one, CAN'T STAND THAT!!!
jjriley, gonzo played fairly well the first half of the season and has had a few good games recently… yes he had a prolonged slump in the second half, but he certainly has helped us win games and he doesn't deserve the animosity from you.
Posted by: email@example.com | September 17, 2007 04:11 PM
spanner Think rationally here. Gonzo gas contributed some, I admit, but what he's spewing to the press now is just sour grapes. He needs to keep his mouth shut, and do his job, He's doing more harm than good to the team spilling that **** to the press. How do you think his younger teammates who've done more for the team feel about his so called leadership now?
Geez spanner I wonder why everyone here is in love with Logan White. Maybe it's because he netted us the talents of : James Loney, Chad Billingsley, Matt Kemp, Jonathan Broxton, Delwyn Young, Andy laRoche. And we're still waiting to see the highly touted talents of Clayton Kershaw, james McDonald.
Meanwhile Ned Colleti has brought in the old veterans: Esteban Loaiza, Mark hendrickson, Roberto Hernandez, Jason Schmidt, Mike Lieberthal, Brett Tomko, Juan Pierre, Luis Gonzalez.
That is why many of us, well-informed baseball fans are in love with Logan White and why we want ned Colleti canned.
How about completely revamping Dodger Talk to be the fan conduit straight into the post-game press conference? Calls are already screened; let the "host" relay the most intelligent questions straight to Grady or whoever is at the podium. Now THAT could be good radio!
If you read this blog, please tell Dodger management to do everything they can to keep Logan White…whether that means a promotion, raise, or both…he is the one part of management we can't afford to lose…
Thank you.
Then I suggest Spanner that the Dodgers buy a radio station or radio show and do just as you outlined. It wouldn't be a "true" sports talk show but at least Josh wouldn't be ringing in to tell them how to run the show. Josh's actions were far from being professional.
old fogey,
Just how many unfavourable calls would you think would get through? That my friend is NOT Radio.
Colletti himself called Gonzalez "the bridge to Kemp". Well Kemp is here and he is ready (2007: .337/.374/.528 129 OPS+) so the bridge's value has been realize. Time for Luis to fade into the AL DH sunset.
rodmky – good point, since "Dodger Talk" is still on the official Dodger station. And any rival sports radio station would fear being blackballed by the Dodgers if they tried that tactic.
Still, as a listener, I'd rather hear the press conference live on the radio after the game, followed by a commentator such as Bob Harvey, where he and the callers could comment directly on what was just heard. This could so much more in the moment than it is.
thunderbolt, his job was to oversee the scouting people.. and you need to sign veterans.. you can't just sign kids… for every James Loney, you get a Billy Ashley or a Karim Garcia.. guys that don't quite work out. Scouting rookies and dealing with other GMS on trades and player signings are two different things..
I don't think anyone could have expected Schmidt would get hurt.. And I personaly think that Pierre has done the job he was signed for.. he gets on base, he steals bases, he is a good signing.. Lieberthal and Hendrickson have also done well as back up catcher and midle reliever, Hendy struggled as a starter but has been great in the bullpen. Gonzo has had his moments as well… Sure Hernandez and Tomko and so far Loiaza didn't work out but Loiaza may be better next season when he is fully healthy so its too early to say on that one.
Unfortunately all I can access in Australia is the archived verson of Dodger talk and I can't access the post game press conference but your idea has merit.
Have Loney, Kemp, Billingsley, and Broxton worked out like Billy Ashley or Karim Garcia? How did Colleti not expect jason Schmidt to not be hurt? His velocity has been declining for the past two years and, why would anybody in their right mind sign a 34 year old power pitcher to a 3 year 51 million dollar contract?
"Sure Hernandez and Tomko and so far Loiaza didn't work out but Loiaza may be better next season when he is fully healthy so its too early to say on that one."
Yeah, well, that's $13.3 million that you're nonchalantly saying hasn't worked.
The Dodgers cannot afford to lose Logan White. They cannot afford to keep Ned Colletti (and by extension, Grady Little).
Let's do what we can to influence McCourt:
"And I personaly think that Pierre has done the job he was signed for.. he gets on base, he steals bases, he is a good signing.. "
Posted by: firstname.lastname@example.com | September 17, 2007 04:36 PM
i agree with you!
but don't you think it makes more sense if he signed Carlos Lee?
or wait for another year while giving the youngters the time to mature and sign Jones or Hunter?
I am still confused about what happened on DodgerTalk and what was said. I can't get the thing to play on-line–if anyone can post a transcript, that would be cool. I would not be surprised if Josh called Bob Harvey and asked basically what he stated in this blog, or if Bob mentioned it on the show.
Jungar was right to point out that there is irony here because the Dodgers did not renew Ross Porter, who did a great job with knowing incredible amounts about the team and being very balanced. It was a harsh point, but needed to be made.
That said, I think Bob Harvey is one of the best DodgerTalk hosts I remember. There have been so many years where the host was a complete apologist for ANYTHING that management did at all–one host even denied that the base coaches stood outside the coaching box.
Josh is supposed to give "the company line," and generally does it well and with credibility. Sure he spins, but that's his job. He is supposed to explain the organization's decision, and even if we disagree, he usually does well in presenting it and not losing credibility. And obviously, credit should be given for providing a forum which has gotten really down on management.
Bob Harvey on DodgerTalk is a pure fan. He'll be up on the team and the manager when we win, and down when we don't. He has a point of view, to be sure, which is to let the young guys play (he pushed for Loney to play from the outset)–and he's not always been in agreement with management, but you have to give him credit for being right.
Losing obviously stinks. And even though it seems clear we will finish with a winning record–and maybe with as good of a record as last year, those were not the expectations, and that is frustrating for the fans, for Bob Harvey, and I am sure for the organization too. The difference, however, is this–people here, like Bob Harvey on DodgerTalk, have been saying things like Loney needs to be playing (I actually saw Ned in the Dugout club in April and begged him to recall Loney), Kemp needs to playing, etc. Would those things have made a difference? The results suggest that, yes, it would have. (Sure, it's impossible to tell for sure–maybe Loney really was not ready–and it's easier to see in hindsight.) And so while a lot of fans here, DodgerTalk callers, and Bob Harvey were begging for these things, it did not happen, and now we're 2.5 games out of a playoff spot with 13 games left, and no longer in control of our own destiny. All of us fans now feel that we were right and the management was not. Not out of ill-will or bad intent, but because, just like the game itself, some things work out and some things don't. But a lot of people feel like the management does not acknowledge that we were right. Except for one post which I regret, I have not called for Ned or Grady's head, but I do want them to take responsibility for these miscalculations. I would like to see some acknowledgement from them that Loney should have been playing, and Kemp should have been plaiyng. And when Kemp sits 2 days in a row, it seems like they still don't get it. And when we have the next guy coming up (for fun, let's call him "LaRoche"), and he sits in favor of grizzled veterans who are not performing the way they should (let's call them "Nomar" or "Hillenbrand") it makes us think we're making all the same mistakes over again.
I don't think Ned or Grady will be fired. Jungar pointed out that DePodesta got the boot because we did not live up to expectations in 2005. No doubt, unless we end the season on a 13-game winning streak, we will not live up to expectations in 2007 (literally–I expected that we would win 92 games, and win the NL West). But, it's not the same. In 2005, I actually think that we lived up to expectations for the team we put together–it was just a lousy team. Winning 86 games (if we go 7-6) is not up to expectations, but it's not embarrassingly bad, which is really why DePo got canned.
And, assuming we don't live up to expectations, Ned and Grady will point out that a lot of lousy things happened:
1) We did not expect Jason Schmidt to only get 4 starts
2) We did not expect Randy Wolf to miss the whole second half.
3) We did not expect Hong Chih Kuo to be out for all but a few games this season.
4) We did not expect Nomar to have the worst year of his career.
So it's totally fair for management to say given these things, we did really well. BUT, this is where the divide between management and Bob Harvey (and the people who agree with him) comes in. Because we only got to this point by a bunch of other unexpected events:
1) Management did not expect that James Loney would hit .330 (I assume not–otherwise they would have promoted him). But Bob Harvey did.
2) Management did not expect Matt Kemp would flourish this season. Bob Harvey did.
3) Management did not expect Chad Billingsley would turn into a staff ace (maybe–I've speculated that they could be trying to be careful with his young arm, but that's certainly not clear). Bob Harvey did.
So, when the season ends and there are excuses for not living up to expectations, there is going to be (and already is) a huge frustration because it's true that no one expected the things that went wrong to happen, a LOT of people expected the things that went right to happen, but management did not. And if Loney, Bills, and Kemp were playing a full season, there is a lot of reason to believe that we would be looking down on the Diamondbacks and Padres, and not up at them. And as someone has pointed out, it's not just us on the board, or Bob Harvey on DodgerTalk, but even Vinny has speculated as to what would have been. It's been 19 years since we won the pennant, and the last drought this long was between 1920 and 1941 when the Daffyness Boys reigned. It's been 19 years since we won a world series, and the last drought that long was the one that ended in 1955. There's a lot of frustration, out there, largely because we have high expectations–and honestly, for the first time in a decade, we have REASON for high expectations. I mean, when we finished third in 2002 under the Fox regime and a mish-mash of free agents, I really was not that disappointed. But to have Russell Martin, James Loney, Matt Kemp, Chad Billingsley, Jonatahn Broxton, Takashi Saito, Derek Lowe, Brad Penny, and Andre Ethier, finishing third is a shock.
Anyway, these are long ramblings for an off-day. We actually COULD win the next 13 games, and I think we would win the NL West if we did it. And while that is probably overly optimistic, you're not crazy to think that the Dodgers could still go 10-3, have a better record than last year, and make the playoffs. So it's not over for sure.
Finally–a note about next year's radio. I like KFWB, which is why I hope the Dodgers have a new radio home next year. I often drive home listening to the game, but sometimes want to flip over for a traffic report. Also, they don't broadcast all the Spring training games, so someone who will do all that would be great.
well let me ask this…..
Why would anyone want to keep Coletti?
A very basic here is how I see it.
1. Took over after an injury plauged terrible 2005. All he could do was go up. And he did. So did Depodesta in 04 vs 03. I would suggest that 2006 was as much Depodesta's team as Colett's. Likewise 2004 was as much Evans as it was Depodesta. Depo was fired after 2005 for lack of meeting exepectations, surely our expectations are the same this season, even though this year's payroll is 40 million more than 2005s. We had to go down to the last week of the year to get in, even though our payroll dwarfs other payrolls. So I call last year an overall wash.
2. No track record. He is in his 2nd full year as a GM. Not sure what qualifications he has that say NG/White don't have.
3. The facts this year clearly supports that his lack of trust in the dodger system has led to issues both on and off the field. It's his job to know and he failed this year. Or at least thats what the press is making it seem like.
If the reason is continuity then I say shenanigans. I like to learn from history and his history shows me nothing to make sure I hold onto it. If the reason is cause he didnt trade the kids then that's cool but not enough.
Not at the expsensive of loosing Logan White.
I would love someone to give me reasons that McCourt should hold onto to Ned. Most of his trades have been bad, most free agent signings have been bad and his choice of manager is bad.
Guys, the only way we loose Grady is if we loose Ned. So those who dislike Grady as manager but don't mind Ned need to take a look at it deeper. Why do you stand for a GM who hires and then gives a vote of confidence to a manager you all can't stand. That alone should make you want Ned gone too.
One of the things I look at is that most of his free agent signings played exaclty as epxected based on recent stats. All of them. Gonzo, Pierre etc…The two exceptions were guys who got hurt unexpectadly in Schmidt (baseball had red flags, i can point you to the right articles written in Nov of last year, before the dodgers even considered signing him) and Furcal.
What didn't play according to stats to their level were the kids..such as Kemp, Bills and Loney..all better than projected. What if they weren't?
Fire Grady Little! Hire Bob Harvey!
Just because Pierre does what he's supposed to do does not make him a good signing. He wasn't a good fit for this team, period. He is not a valuable player, period. And what's worse is he hampers us from getting a real outfielder with power in the offseason without getting rid of one of the kids.
This just goes so to show the real reason behind the Alyssa blog removal.
u have a point there…
but let's use the word "maybe" lol
I can tell you one thing for certain. Most fans here will be Dodger fans long after Grady and Colletti are gone. Neither are Dodgers, they aren't Dodgers. They aren't from the organization and I think it's a shame that the team couldn't find someone within to do the jobs. Let alone hiring an Ex Giant. There have been very few ex giants that have worked out for the club, and there is a good reason for this failure, they're properly taught to despise their enemy and they carry it with them to the Dodgers.
leekfink and Jungar(jason)
nice post guys!
I disagree. Pierre has been valuable and a good fit for the team. I never understood the animosity for him on these boards.
back to Van,
How do you know Carlos Lee was available or wanted to sign here? This isn't fantasy baseball.. we can't just sign whomever we want.. doesnt work like that.
i'd like to ask you about something you posted above. if dodger talk was all pro-dodgers, would you call the host and tell him/her the show is an embarassement because they weren't presenting the anti-dodger sentiment? i think not. please realize that the grady criticizers have a point. and it's not like we all don't know a thing about baseball. that's the beauty of this game. because it really is america's game, so many of us have played it, watched it, and discussed it all of our lives. we know a bad move when we see one. not having lieberthal bunt on sunday was a bad move, plain and simple. it cost us the game. moves, or non-moves, like that have happened with so much frequency this year that it can't be just a fluke. grady is a bad game-time manager. fans are frustrated and because we have no other outlet, we call in to shows like Dodger Talk to voice our opinion. it at least gives us some feeling of telling someone how we feel. we truly bleed dodger blue. let us show it.
I listed a whole list of names that didn't work out, and the only one you were able to defend was Pierre? Fine, Pierre is a solid player, I'll throw you a bone on that one. But, for 5 years?! Now there's no chance of getting Torri Hunter. 5 years?! OK, I take that bone back.
"How do you know Carlos Lee was available or wanted to sign here?"
What do u mean how do i know if he is available? he is a FA last offseason!
and i don't even know if he really wants to go to a certain place!
i think all he wants is money and a team who can at least contend! that's the reason why he didn't sign with the Giants coz the giants aren't contenders!!!
Khola, Lieberthal not bunting is NOT what cost us the game on sunday.. if we lost by one or two runs maybe you could say that.. but i'd say that the poor pitching by Loiaza cost us the game.. And really the only other options for the fifth starter would be Stults and Houlton, neither of whom has pitched that well of late.
Thunder, I actualy defended more names than that.. the only ones I agreed with you on were hernandez and tomko..
Van, just cause someone is a free agent doesn't mean they want to sign with your team. How do you know they didn't make him an offer? Maybe he didn't want to play here? We have no idea what deals were considered during the offseason.
stults/houlton have pitched just as well as Loaiza has. Even his one "good" start in Chicago looks alot better than it actually was, as he gave up plenty of hard hits.
The dodgers entered the year with a projected OF Home run total of less than 40.
The dodgers entered the year with all three OF spots being below average on defense
The dodgers entered the year with a poor infield defense.
The dodgers entered this year with an above average pitching staff.
The dodgers entered this year with projected 3-4-5 hitters who as a unit may be considered the weakest in baseball (Nomar, Kent ,Gonzo)
The dodgers entered this year with two players at the top of the order who are average at getting on base. Both have good speed and are good baserunners when on base.
Are all these true?
"Lieberthal not bunting is NOT what cost us the game on sunday."
it didn't cost us a game ur rayt!!!
but it might cost us the hopes to go into the playoffs!
if grady had let lieberthal bunt we would have LaRoche and Ethier on 3rd and 2nd base with one out!!!
and to be honest with u im not a fun of bunting!!!
in that situation i would let russell martin pinch hit for lieberthal then just use moeller to catch next inning!!!
Those are all true jungar but I think you forgot one.
The Dodgers entered the year with a manager who plays with an AL mentality and sits back and waits for a 3 run homer. The problem being their were no consistent power guys in our opening day line-up.
they did make an offer!
i don't know how much…
but i do know it's not the price that any all-star player would want!!!
I think they expected more homers from Nomar, Gonzo and Kent than they got.
I wouldn't consider Ethier to be a below average defensive outfielder.. and Pierre is actualy not a bad outfielder.. he covers a lot of ground and can make catches, his one weakness is his arm strength..
Infield defense… well Furcal is normaly a good defender.. Kent was the main weak spot and we couldn't get rid of him.
Yes the pitching staff was supposed to be good.. but we didnt expect schmidt, kuo and wolf to all be hurt
The weakest 3-4-5 in baseball? I'm not so sure about that…. the guys that the Royals (for one) are trotting out there don't really scare me..
van, how do you know how much the offer (if there was one) was?
i don't know how much is the offer!
but i do know as i said that no all-star player will sign with a low amount of money!!!
remember? after they lose the chance to sign alfonso soriano they turn to carlos lee!
If the veterans are going to carry the team to the playoffs why didn't Nomar start yesterday .
that game wasn't important just aganst the snakes .tomorrow they might have the tomato at first with hildabrant in right with hernandez starting the vets will cary them through .then the vets must have been saving their talent for the stretch run
van, maybe they made him a great offer.. but he just didn't want to sign here for some other reason.
On the subject of Carlos Lee, I bet he is just as happy as a clam being on a cellar dweller team like the Astros this year, laughing all the way to the bank.
yeah..the nomar thing yesterday was weird. i didn't expect the two "monster" games back, but he did it so why didn't he play? i read something about his calf still bothering him, which isn't good news.
"Andy LaRoche started Sunday at third base for the first time in 10 days after a flare-up of a protruding disk in his lower back. He started in place of Nomar Garciaparra, who had five hits in his previous seven at-bats on Friday and Saturday but is still battling a strained calf muscle."
I guess that's one vet who can't "carry us" for more than 2 games at a time.
Well he did give us two good games when he was in there. It's not like Hillebrand an Abreau were lighting the world on fire or anything.
I'm SO glad we didn't sign carlos lee. he's only going to get slower and fatter. at least for 5 years, we know what we'll get from JP…speed.
if lee didn't play in minute maid and its short LF and had to roam DS, we'd all be rolling our eyes. anyone who makes adam dunn look like a defensive upgrade is bad.
Lee has put up some good numbers in Houston so far, but I think playing in a small 'hitters park' like Minute Maid has alot to do with it. Their pitching staff, with the exception of Oswalt, has been hammered this year in that lauching pad.
I know it is your job to make everything that the Dodger management does seem reasonable. However, you are between a rock and a hard place. As with most all management Dodger management tends to believe that fans (workers) are stupid and will believe (know) only what they want them to know. However, since this happens to be a free country with access to the internet knowledgeable fans exist in amazing numbers.
These knowledgeable fans have access to the stats that Ned eschews (OBP/SLG%/OPS etc)and they have watched Ned make numerous errors. However, the errors are not what annoys me it is the fact that Ned does not seem to learn from his errors. He does not seem to recognize an error after he makes one and consequently he is no better at his job than when he started. Dodger management has been basically reactive rather than proactive in almost any situation that arises. It seem that there are no plan B, C & D only plan A. BTW – collecting numerous mediocre pitchers for false depth is not a plan. They seem genuinely perplexed when their carefully laid out plan goes awry. Ned's obsession with washed up veterans is wearing very thin with the true knowledgeable fandom. Sorry Josh there is no way to spin the awful truth. I am just happy that a radio station and host can give a voice to the fans. If management cannot deal with the results of their actions then they should change their actions.
spanner…Juan Pierre? We could have kept Kenny Lofton and paid him rather substantially less. You don't have an OF with no arm playing CF since as we saw yesterday, the same is an invitation for the other team's baserunner who doesn't run all that well to go from 1st to 3rd on a single to CF. Pierre's arm has cost us more runs than his feeble offensive output could ever hope to make up for. The team should have simply re-signed Lofton and saved its money for Kosuke Fukudome [here's what we gave up for Pierre: http://tinyurl.com/2b6num ].
What seems rather clear is that Ned and/or someone else rather high up in management do not only not understand the "new math", they don't even understand the "old math", as Pierre rarely if ever walks and so his OBP is absolutely wretched.
Here's the relevant lines:
Lofton 2006: .301/.360/.403
Pierre 2007: .290/.328/.349
Lofton's 2006 is superior to Pierre's 2007 in every respect. So what was the point in signing a guy who has an OBP of .328 and who gets run on by even the slowest baserunners in the league? I will never ever forget seeing, during that Angels sweep of the Dodgers at their place, well, how on earth does Casey Kotchman tag up and score on a shallow fly to CF?
Re homers, well, how many did Kent, Nomar, and Gonzo hit last year? Didn't JD and Nomar lead the team last year with 20? JD isn't here and Nomar fell just about completely off the table during the second half last year. Kent otherwise had 14 homers last year. So how many more homers were you expecting?
If you haven't figured it out yet, last year we were next to last in homers in the NL, above only the lowly Pirates. But we were 4th in runs scored. We were 4th in runs scored owing to the team OBP. So what did we do coming off that lesson? We didn't get the power bat that we didn't need, but we did get a guy (1) who can't field his position worth squat and so was going to cost the pitching staff some earned runs, and (2) who is otherwise certain to kill the team OBP, what with his .328 OBP on the year. And so you get the point, here's the difference between last year and this one:
Player – OBP:
Furcal – .369
Lofton – .360
Furcal – .334
Pierre – .328
At least Rafi can say that he's been playing on a bum ankle all year, but what's Pierre's excuse? That he's "old school"? Every time I hear the man say that, I think of that old adage, to wit, you can't teach a Juan Pierre new tricks [since like the old dog, he's too stupid to listen]. And for more on what we can expect, Juan Pierre's OBP:
2005: .326
2006: .330
2007: .328
2008: Can you say somewhere between .326 and .330?
Call those numbers a recipe for offensive impotence [and even if we do get the "big bat", they'll only be solo homers as Pierre won't be on base ball all that much].
I am otherwise firmly convinced that Sabean never intended to sign Pierre, but what with his "manly rivalry" with Ned, he simply bid up the price to lock us into a ridiculous contract for a more or less do nothing player. And with Bonds about to bid a fond farewell, well, the Gnats can sign Kosuke Fukodome with the money that they didn't spend on Juan Pierre. Sure, his homer total will drop, just like Matsui's, but he's a rifle for an OF arm and he's an OBP right around .400. And he would have moved Kemp to CF…but we got the noodle-armed, I can't even bunt for a basehit, "old school" Juan Pierre instead.
Re kiper04 at 3:34 above and other misstatements of facts:
The problem I have with the majority here is the basic theory you have constucted about Little. Every day, as I said yesterday, you are amazed by his line-up; then alex explains the line-up and it doesn't matter. You say Little likes veterans, I say prove it. Predict a line-up. You can't,Little is a joke to you, unpredictable in his stupidity yet alex can look at the opposing pitchers splits and tell you the next day's line-up.Your theory is useless and wrong. Little plays the R-L percentages so when a RH pitcher who is particularly bad against LH hitters starts Kemp sits and Gonzo starts but it's not because Gonzo is old and Kemp is young. Can you find counterexamples to this? Yes, but I can explain them if you do by looking at the pitcher.
Now why did I mention kiper? (who unlike many is a gentleman)Because of his discussion of the D-backs.He has an important fact wrong.Chad Tracy watches from the bench because he is hurt hasn't played since 08/13 until yesterday? Do you really think a player (Mark Reynolds)with 113 SO in 363 PA would start over Tracy?
Arizona is playing kids to save money. It just happened to work out this year.
I don't know the relationship between Little and Colletti. Does Grady feel free to sit Pierre but chooses not to? How were the cuts made at the end of spring trading? By committee, by Colletti, some other way.Without knowing that it's hard to know how to allocate criticism. But I feel negative towards Colletti and think Little has done a good job. This Dodger team went into a 7-19 funk with Tomko and Hendrickson making 10 of those starts of which (I think) the Dodgers won 2. Explain how that 7-19 stretch happened and you explain the season.Everything else is details.
Three cheers for Bob Harvey man. Josh, you're way out of touch. Get a clue.
And another thing…..what good is "…being one of the very few organizations in baseball that has this sort of forum for you to express your opinions…" if no one is listening?
Just because Grady plays the splits doesn't mean its right. He still hasn't learned. Who do you honestly want in the outfield for the next 13 games.. Ethier/Kemp or Gonzo? It is a no brainer. Its common sense. Its………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………BASEBALL.
Just like the Nomar situation and how long it took the team to call Loney up and move Nomar to third. "Nintendo managers" were calling for this move at least a month before it actually happened. Our mangement DOES NOT learn from their mistakes. PERIOD. They are STUBBORN in their ways. I can only hope Frank sees this and makes the necessary changes.
I love how Gonzo says the vets know how to handle the pressure and they have experience. My question is, when will the kids get their experience? Is Ned going to sign vets for next years stretch run because the kids won't have experience next year because they didn't get any this year? The year after? And the year after? Its ridiculous. Loney should doesn't know how to handle September baseball Gonzo. Bills sure can't pitch in crunch time Grady. Its flat out sickening and disappointing and I can only hope that management does some SERIOUS growing up this off-season.
As for Grady, regardless of splits and tendencies and stats, the reality is, that beyond the 1, 2 and 9 hole, the batting order CHANGES DAILY. Even if a player starts every day for a week, he doesn't come to the park knowing where he's batting. Each spot in the order calls for a different approach. There is no consistency. Where's the comfort zone? Kemp bats 3rd, 5th…Garciapara bats 5th, 8th…Ethier's all over the map. Even Little League teams settle on a set batting order.
This blog and DodgerTalk are pretty similar. If you sift through the junk you'll find some really intelligent baseball fans. Problem is for every Jungar there are 15 guys like DieHardBlu.
The truth lies somewhere in the middle. This organization isn't as incompetent as most bloggers and DodgerTalkers believe but the competency level isn't near what Josh portrays.
Posted by: firstname.lastname@example.com | September 17, 2007 04:19 PM
S C R E W YOU Lath19. I'm sorry I don't want to see another year of Grittle.Pick a side I'm not a blind fan I express my opinions. This blog has a lot of great post. I read this blog for the line up and the comments its amusing.
Many posts in this thread are bashing Josh for calling Dodger Talk. "He should be ashamed of himself…" "He's acting unprofessionally…" "He's mad because DT is not spouting the party line…"
But not one post mentioned this part of Josh's post.
"This year, KFWB chose to change the show and to my knowledge, the host of DodgerTalk has not spoken with Frank McCourt, Ned Colletti, Grady Little or a single player or coach yet this season despite repeated offers from the organization to do so."
Many of you are so intent on myopically believing that Josh called up to yell at (or "censor" as some of you are ignorantly claiming) Bob Harvey for criticizing management that you have completely overlooked Josh's stated reason for calling – he is angry that Bob is bashing without ONCE in a season talking to management to learn the reasons behind their moves. Honestly, how can our Aussie friend draw a negative comparison of DT with Fox News when the man at DT is doing nothing but spouting his own unbalanced opinion? (BTW, I'd like for someone to tell me about a news network or show that doesn't have preconceived opinions toward the news they present – I believe that idea is a myth.) I don't listen to Dodger Talk, as a Denver-area Dodger fan, but I love any conversation that is informed on BOTH SIDES of an opinion. If Harvey criticizes management on a daily basis, yet never seeks an interview with a single member of the Dodgers upper echelons, how is that good journalism? He becomes nothing more than a man with a mic and a bunch of "yes" men who call in and agree with him. A journalist/host is not a good one simply because you agree with what he says; I'd rather listen to someone informed on stats, independent of management, but who is interested in what management has to say and not simply in speaking his own opinions each day.
You can hardly criticize Josh for calling him and saying Bob should be ashamed of himself. As a radio host, he SHOULD be ashamed of himself if it's true that he covers the Dodgers and he's never interviewed anyone in Dodger management. And Josh SHOULD be angry if his job is the team's Public Relations and a major PR outlet will not even consider an opposing viewpoint to his own.
And for those of you who are so happy that Dodger Talk exists because Dodger management only touts the "company line" (which is their JOB to do) and doesn't listen to or offer an outlet for opposing viewpoints, I offer you one vivid example to refute your simply reactionary point of view:
Inside the Dodgers.
Oh yeah, and calling Josh "out of touch" is probably not going to make him forget his PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY as head of Public Relations to defend and support his employers.
Dodger Talk belongs to the fans…not the PR machine. The Dodgers get PLENTY of accolades on Dodger Talk when deserved…just like on this blog. We're not a bunch of idiots. Like a lot of other gray beards on this blog, I've been a fan for many decades. I think we know incomptentcy when we see it.
Even if it belongs to the fans, don't you want its host to be in touch with management so it is a more informative show? That wouldn't by any stretch mean that Dodger Talk belongs to the "PR machine," whatever that is.
I don't recall Ned or Grady willing to make a cameo on Dodger talk. You don't think Bob Harvey would jump at the chance if they wandered by the booth?
I assume there is a booth. A Martinez certainly finds it.
I've been watching this fascinating forum most of the day and I have yet to hear Josh come clean about why he called Dodger talk "embarrasing". And why in the world would he bother the host of the show during the broadcast. He's in denial and he's pretty unprofessional. I wonder what his employers would say about him spouting off on their behalf.
Did you lisyen to the show in question? I did, even from Australia, and if you had you would have heard Bob say that he has repeatedly asked for Dodger Management to talk with him but the only response he EVER gets is Josh. As a radio personmyself I know how hard it is to get the BIG BOYS to talk and just how easy it is for the spin doctors like Josh to appropiate blame.
That said it is never professional or correct to ring during a break with no intention of going to air to call the presenter an Embarrasment. If Josh had the balls he would have gone on air to state his grievance.
It is honourable of you to write and defend Josh and the Dodger Management but next time I'd get my facts right before leaping in.
Even if Bob DID talk to Grady, he probably wouldn't get an explanation. Grady explains things by saying like "Im the manager" or "There are things you people don't understand" or "You people play ninetendo baseball." I don't think he'd be willing to go into more detail for a talk show host.
Maybe over the final 13 games we'll get an explanation from Josh. If I'm McCourt, I'm having a sit down with the employee who calls my flagship station and tells the host his show is embarrasing. It's not only a slap to the host, it's a real slap in the face to the callers. Josh is basically telling them their comments dont matter unless those comments are pro Dodgers.
Dont forget Grady's famous "Nintendo comment".
Oops you did remember jspelk.
So has anyone heard. Did Harvey get canned because of his comments about Josh? I'll be curious to hear if he's on the air.
He made a comment just before he went off air that he had the full support of his executive producer who told Bob when he hired him that "He was hired by the station – not the Dodgers".
Is his job safe?? I don't know… but If Josh rang to tip a bucket on Bob then he had every right to tell his audience about it.
I, too, just listened Sunday's show on KFWB's website. There was nothing out of the norm from any other day/night the Dodgers tank. Matter of fact, the first few callers were quite eloquent. I like to refer to this stuff as hate crimes, as in, "I can't wait to listen to the hate crimes on Dodger talk." Big deal. It's been going on for as long as Dodger fans have cared enough to gripe. The REAL big deal, for me, is Josh phoning the host and calling him out. That call has now become the story when it shouldn't be.
From the web site "Dodger Dugout"
Dear Grady,
Did you know that you're in a playoff race? I wasn't sure if you were aware because you continue to make decisions that defy baseball logic. Perhaps it's me. If you wouldn't mind, could you clear a few things up for me? Obviously I'm missing something.
Why, exactly, was Matt Kemp held out of the starting lineup for two straight days? Yes, the Matt Kemp with the highest batting average on the team. And why was Jonathan Broxton called in from the bullpen on Sunday in a game you were losing – especially when he's been overworked? Isn't his role to be the setup guy in the eighth? Wouldn't the other Jonathan – Meloan – have been a better choice for that situation? And why did you pinch-hit for Andy LaRoche in the 9th inning when you were down by five runs? Doesn't he need the experience and at-bats? Lastly, does Luis Gonzalez have incriminating photos of you? Just curious.
If you could please reply I would be eternally grateful.
I wonder if his site and others like it are in Josh's sites. And while I'm at it how come Vin Scully, Charley Steiner and Rick Monday can be critical during the broadcast and that trio is never called on the carpet publicly?
Rod –
I don't seem to have any facts out of order – I'm just more prone to believe Josh when he says that management has offered to talk to Bob than believe a hothead radio host, who apparently despises management, when he says that HE has requested interviews. You're just choosing to believe the side of the story you want to believe, and I mine. Please don't say my "facts" aren't straight when you didn't introduce any new ones into the discussion…
Thanks for calling me honourable. I've never been called "honorable" with a "u" in it before, as far as I can tell, and I appreciate it. 🙂
I'm just curious–fan to fan– why it would be okay for Josh to call the host of the show (while he's on the air) and 'dog 'em when he's much tamer than say Kevin Kennedy or even the Hall of Famer? You sound like your a backer of Josh and that's your right. But has he came into the forum yet and explained why he called the show "embarrasing"? I guess my point is which ever side you take, wasn't his behavior unprofessional for a man in his posistion. I just re-read his daily post for today and no where in it did he mention that he might have been out of line. That's sort of like Grady or Ned never once this year admitting they made a mistake. Is it Dodger management's arrogance I'm hearing?
One article says the Dodgers have bad chemistry. This link disputes that.
ahhh…Josh…you are just so cute when you attempt to manage our "customer experience" for us…
Dude most of us have been Dodger fans longer then you have been alive. We know stink on ice when we see it…thank the gawds for Vinny, Kennedy & Gracie…at least they remember the beauty of sports is HONESTY not spin and fluff.
Stop trying to equate sports to shopping at Nordstrom…or in this case…Tar-jjjay (Target) now…the Dodgers once were Nordstrom in quality and honesty.
A sport MUST be honest and understand fans KNOW the game as well or better the the whole staff of marketing "V-Pee's" dictating press these days.
There are NOT two sides to sports. Well, maybe there are…there are winners and losers. It's that basic and fundamental. And in sports, spin = LOSERS…honesty = WINNERS. If you lose yet play honestly as well as project that same honesty by standing up and accepting when things are not right, that too is a WIN because we fans will respect an honest losing team…for a while anyway as long as there is some success mixed in there somewhere.
Just get rid of the thugs and create a family atmosphere at the ballpark. Then let the manager decide the lineup based simply on performance not salary. Just because the Dodgers signed them to a big contract does not mean we fans want to see them on the field instead of WINNING. Ultimately it is US who are paying the players…and we are paying for WINS. It's not about looking pretty and talking about winning…it's about WINNING….PERIOD.
D'Backs lose, Padres win
4 back in the division
3 back in the Wild Card
13 games remaining
I have no comment on this issue, my comments will come AFTER the season, whenever that day comes.
That's the way we spell honourable down here and as for believing Josh over a "hothead radio host" – who by the way has over 35 years of broadcast experience – is of course your right.
As for entering facts .. I thought I did .. and I ask again … Did you listen to the programme?"
I am a broadcaster with over 40 years behind a microphone and eventhough I wasn't in the studio it appears a fact that Josh did ring the station and make derogitory comments about the show and its host and if a radio person makes a statement on air about asking repeatably for Dodger management to talk on the show you'd better believe it's true because radio people are just as liable to the laws of the land as for example you are.
Philadelphia also won. Dodgers now 1.5 behind Phillies in the Wild Card.
One final thought. I do recall hearing an interview with Frank McCourt that aired on Dodger Talk right around Super Bowl time. So there goes the "he wont talk to the management theory". You want fluff, check out these web chats with various Dodger brass where they filter the questions to make sure there's no negativity.
Based off of the splits, here's my prediction for both games:
vs. Jeff Francis
Furcal, Pierre, Loney, Kent, Kemp, Martin, Ethier, LaRoche, Bills
vs. Mark Redman
Furcal, Pierre, Loney, Kent, Nomar, Kemp, Ethier, Lieberthal
Gonzo has no success against Francis nor Redman, but Grady may start him in one of the games anyway which would be a mistake. And let me make this clear right here and now. Gonzo should NOT start the first three games of this series. I think Kent will play both games he kills Francis, but Abreu may get the start in the nightcap.
Thank You Puppyhead !! I couldn't agree more.
Now I ask you other groundhogs, has Josh ever done this blog or any of you fans wrong ?? Other then asking you groundhogs to behave, all he has done is allow you all to vent regardless of what your beliefs have been. Now the first chance you get to see the human side of the guy and you people attack him !!
I listen to the show and have even been a caller a number of times. What I read from Josh and what I heard on the show, Josh called it what for it was. All he was asking is for Harvey to be fair and enable both sides to come out. All he did was call Harvey out for never interfacing with the team. So what if all he was offered was to talk to Josh. He never tried !! With that said Josh should have never of called, he didn't stand a chance against a guy with a mic. KFWB has a big axe to grind and they took it out on Josh. My appreciation for Josh continues to grow and I think you all owe him your utmost respect.
Go Dodgers !!
Go Josh !!
A voice from the past that is sorely missed, good to hear it again
Loved Vinny's take on Grady's non-bunt with Lieberthal. Basically saying the move was surprising, he futher quipped, in a rather light-hearted way, "but then, life is full of surprises." You could not miss the sarcasm.
Josh, this blog is embarassing. Not once have you ever tried to contact me for an opposing view.
I hope I don't sound like I got a Chicago Cub fan mentality, but I possitively sure that if the McCourts want to win, they are watching, listening & reading everything they can. I'm sure they will make up their minds on how satisfied they are with this team's progress. I know they have high expectations and they will do everything possible to speed up the process. As a long time fan, I've seen quite a few things that didn't work out so far, this year. The Schmidt & Wolf cases as far as I can tell, the only people that can be faulted are the people who examined them. But then again, it could be a case of hard luck. The way some things worked out with the use of young players and veterans, all I can say is the people who make these decisions are not fortune tellers. Most of what happened we see in hindsight. I can't figure out how Little comes to his decisions, but remember success is in the result. If something works out it's a good move, if it doesn't it's a bad move. I think the weakest part of this team is its offense. It seems to me as a whole they lack patience, they're too anxious to hit the ball, they look like they don't go up to the plate looking for a particular pitch. They seem to never make a pitcher work. I think this is the reason for all the shutouts and low scoring spells. It might be the batting coach's fault. I hope in time this will work itself out. The strongest part of this team is its bullpen and its been that way for years now, even with turnovers. Something inside of me says they are doing the right things. It takes time to build a championship baseball team.
I think ever since KFWB took over as the Dodger flagship radio station, the teams radio coverage has been sub-par!!!! They did away with a good and true pre game show and they don't even broadcast the spring training games. I love listening to Vin Scully, Charlie, and Rick but it starts and ends there. I never listen to the partial pre game show and never to the post game show…I think that the Dodgers should sign a radio contract with an all sports talk radio station and A. Martinez should host all the pre and post game shows…He is a good analyst and I enjoyed him back in the days of 1150 AM radio.
Please do us all a favor and ditch KFWB and get a real sports talk station for all of us to listen to.
I remember in 1976 Alston just didn't seem to have his team's attention anymore. They were playing the kids (dubbed the Little Blue Bicycle in 1973 in contrast to the Big Red Machine) and everyone was calling for Lasorda–the guy who knew the kids from AAA Spokane. Now Little is no Alston, but I "feel" a similarity here. I don't know who should be the next Dodger manager, but I'd like to see Dodger blood. Someone with passion and a brain. Maybe Davey Lopes should get his long-awaited shot at the helm?!??!
The day Dodgers management takes away my medium to be critical (and complimentary at times) of the Dodgers is the day I will no longer be a fan.
Terrific story about Logan White, Marion and James Loney. Must read!
milkshake: Hope you see this.
You ignored my point on the splits. Grady only sits Kemp now when the opposing RH pitcher is particularly (I said above)bad against LH hitters. If a pitcher gives a great advantage to LH hitters then it's right to sit Kemp (assuming you will not sit Pierre but that's a whole other question)Your common sense is wrong.Do you even look at the splits? If LH hitters are slg. 40% more than RH hitters then Gonzo should start; can't you see that? I hope not next year but still this year.It depends on Kemp's continuing development.(of course Gonzo will be gone I assume and hope)
I agree that the Dodgers are slow to bring up young players which is a fault but it was even worse when Lasorda had more influence. It's a very long standing problem in this organization. I tried to say that I can't tell who currently is to blame and I don't see how any of you others can tell either. Grady said the other day that Colletti doesn't influence his line-ups and game decisions. I don't believe that. If you do then blame Grady but I will be shocked if we ever learn the full story of how player decisions are made by the club.
You and others make too much of Gonzo's quote. He was just talking to a reporter.Haven't you ever heard an athlete interviewed? 99% of the time it's one sports cliche after another.All he said was it's easier not to press late in the season when you've been though it before. Yet you guys act like he's some sort of evil genius influencing Little and Colletti. Which takes me back to my main point. Little's not stupid.The mob here thinks he's stupid because they refuse to give any thought to how he makes his decisions (even though alex explains every game day). Colletti and Little are just not big risk takers,DePodesta was.There is good and bad in both styles.
I want to repeat my closing point from above. Tell me how a team with this much talent can go 7-19 over a month long stretch. I don't understand it. I don't know who to blame. And I've seen it more than a few times before.
alex that was a great read thanks…
logan white should take over the general managing duties and the dodgers shall FIRE NED and GRADY
GO Dodgers!!!
I would be MOST upset if Bob was gone next year, or if he was censored in anyway.
His UNBIASED review/commentary/opinions are what I love most about Dodger radio (besides innings 1-3 with Vin).
He's sooo much better than those homers down in Anaheim (I can't stand Terry Smith and AngelTalk). From the sounds of your opinion that is EXACTLY what you want to make DodgerTalk.
PLEASE don't turn Dodger Talk into more Company PR and Spreading of the Company Word.
Very interesting read from both sides concerning the season and the side issue over Dodger Talk. My approach is very simple (some may say it is too simplistic). I want to look at the results – do we make the playoffs and acquit ourselves there at least competitively or we don't. Two years in place for the management and a payroll investment in excess of $100 million should provide enough time and basis for an evaluation on results. How they get to that end result is management's business, although it's interesting to argue in the fans' forum.
So, in my simple way, if the Dodgers make it to the playoffs and do reasonably well, management will stay and be rewarded regardless of their style, their good points and their faults. If the don't make it, COLLETTI AND GRADY SHOULD BOTH BE FIRED with no excuses accepted, PERIOD.
To you Josh supporters:
Why does Bob Harvey need to have someone from Dodger management on DodgerTalk? Or why should he interview them off the air even? The Dodgers give the whole world their positive spin every day in the paper and on TV and at the beginning of this blog every day. Us fans want to hear an HONEST opinion and thanks to Bob Harvey and the fans that call in to his show.
I'm sick and tired of the PR spin the Dodgers have been putting out. Those "on line" chats are the biggest joke of all and their supposed to be the fans conduit to real Dodgers people like Colletti.
Josh has to say what he has to say, but let's not pretend that we're getting the truth about the team.
dang…what the **** happened here? I haven't been on my pc for a while can someone explain what is going on?
Josh with all due respect I understand you are doing your job but could you please please please please please please please not use the words "Fair" and or "balanced" in a sentence of any kind…it reminds us that part of the team is still owned by satan…i mean fox.
Too lazy to explain what happened… Just read the comments after Sunday's game. I posted what happened at Dodger talk and Josh responded with this post.
I wonder if anything new will be said today.
Can we get 2 wins today ? That would be nice!
Come on guys, were just a bunch of nintendo baseball players. What do we know about baseball? FIRE GRADY !!!
We have a tough task ahead of us now…2 teams in front of us and in Colorado for 4….not easy.
Please keep Bob Harvey..he is absolutely terrific, a guy who says it like it is and I think is balanced and fair..if his comments are considered "anti" Dodger sometimes it's only because he's being honest..
Also….FIRE GRADY, FIRE NED…KEEP KEEP KEEP LOGAN WHITE.
wow….thats pretty wow.
I really think the only embarassment here is that we have a 110 million dollar payroll, one of the most talent group of young players in all of baseball and we don't have a better record then the Padres or D'Backs.
remember at the beginning of the year when i was being called anti dodger cuz i said this team wouldn't make the playoffs and that we should fire Grady and Ned….ah those were the good old days.
Hi email@example.com,
Well if the Dodgers go to another radio station next year, I'm sure Bob Harvey won't be the host of Dodger talk. Bob works for KFWB 980
max, while I always had my doubts about Colletti, I was willing to give Grady the benefit of the doubt after '06. This year however has killed that notion, kudos to you for seeing it well in advance.
Great article on James Loney today… http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/la-sp-dodgers18sep18,1,7508208.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-majorbaseb
Honestly Charris, I tried to give Grady the benefit of the doubt going into this season. He did ok for most of last season but he lost me in spring training. Bills in the pen, Loney in triple A, Kemp/Ethier Platoon….then it just got worse as the season went on.
Me and you both.
Tony Gwynn came out today/last night and said that he think that the Padres will win the division and the Dodgers will win the wildcard.
1:00 game today. Let's start another winning streak fellas!!! All positive talk from here on out; even Grady and Ned's biggest supporters (not many support BOTH of them it seems) can't be happy with not being in the playoffs as of today. It's a dead horse. They have 13 games to keep their jobs….
Im glad i can watch the game this afternoon. I've been so busy with school lately I haven't even had a chance to check the box scores from the weekend games.
I'll miss tonights game (class), tomorrow nights (class) and thursday nights game (ARCADE FIRE AT THE HOLLYWOOD BOWL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
BOB HARVEY IS A TOOL! He has taken Dodger talk and made it into ****. The show was a thousand times better when A Martinez was the host… He made the show and critisized when needed but also defended as well…
The dodgers need to move to a sports station again instead of a news station… the whole sports at 15 and 45 to get 30 seconds of the dodgers on the station that airs the ames is ****… & the Coverin the bases which is really just a name fr the news show that they insert a little more sports into is just ridiculous.
Kudos to all in advocating free thinking , free speach and the opposition of towing the company line.
Josh has been terrific here on this BLOG and a great service to all us Dodgers fans with this open forum. However, once any establishment tries to control opinions it is no longer honest and that brews resentment.
I hope next year when Dodger Talk is no longer associated with KFWB that it's content and opinions will not be controlled by Dodgers management wherever Dodger talk finds itself.
Josh, On another radio note…I was at the game Sunday, I brought my transistor radio so we could listen to VIN. Everybody around us kept asking us to turn up the volume. EVERYBODY wanted to listen to Vinny.
Why on earth are stuck listening to the other guys after the third inning. NOBODY wanted to hear the "other guys" Vinny is calling the game on TV anyway. I understand when the team is on the road and Vin is not there. But if he is calling the game anyway, why wouldn't Vinny be on the whole game? Does Dodgers management actually think we would rather listen to Rick and Charlie? We get enough of them when the team is on the road!
What a stupid decision by management! Why on earth would you guys throw away all those great play by plays by the greatest there ever was. No doubt Vinny is in his final days and were stuck listening to the other guys from the fourth inning on.
Happy Anniversary guys.
Quiet, all of you (blog host included).
Let's just worry about trying to sweep today's double dip.
I echo Jungar's comments…let's keep it all positive, at least until we're eliminated. We've got thirteen games to go, and negativity is simply not going to get us where we all, obviously, want to be. So let's all agree to pull together and save the criticism and calling for heads for post season, whenever it comes…later rather than sooner!
BOB HARVEY IS A TOOL! He has taken Dodger talk and made it into ****. The show was a thousand times better when A Martinez was the host… The dodgers need to move to a sports station again instead of a news station…
Posted by: email@example.com | September 18, 2007 09:05 AM
Yes, KFWB does stink, but Bob Harvey is being honest and not surprisingly reflects the views of MOST Dodger fans. A Martinez still kisses up too much.
I'm all for being positive, but then I'll be watching or listening and then Grady does something stupid like not bunt Lieberthal or PH for him. At that moment, the radio or tv gets turned off. There's just so much you can take. It's like torture.
Scott, the guy you responded to hates our prospects, so it's obvious that he wouldn't like Bob Harvey (who praises them all the time). Best to just ignore him.
Truthfully, for the lst year since Ross was fired, I have listened to Dodgertalk. Harvey does a great job of being unbiased, & it's so refreshing to not have to listen to calls that say, "oh, I love the Dodgers & they'll win the WS". The calls should be the calls–whatever listeners think. Frankly, I think your calling the show "an embarrassment" was undeserved.
I felt, from the outset, the team was not well constructed. No thought placed on defense, poor outfield arms (causing many more bases for the opposition & additional pitches), no power & too many older guys clogging up the bases for talented younger guys. Truthfully & respectfully, as a Dodgers (& Baseball) fan of 60 years, I've never seen such nonsensical line-ups & in-game moves by a manager: not starting Loney, when it was clear Nomar was not having a productive year; an obvious preference for Vets over more-productive younger guys, i.e., Ethier sitting every other day in spite of being a very productive hitter for most of year, Kemp sitting in spite of being only 1 of 2 guys with power; having "speed guys" at top, with a no-power team, but, having an ex-AL manager who doesn't play "small ball", i.e., utilize the hit & run, etc., allows players to continually swing at lst pitches & play poor fundamental baseball. He appears to always be waiting for the elusive 3-HR. Since this is not a team with power, that won't happen. Frankly, if the preponderance of calls point these out, it's because they are true.
Sad to say, poor line-up & in-game decisions probably cost the Dodgers post season play. All along, the best players should have been playing.
Scott if you were replying to me, just to set the record straight: I love the prospects, can't stand Grady's decisions, and still want to keep this positive. Let's try the "Power of Positive Thinking" for the next thirteen games…what can we lose?
You couldn't have said it better. Thanks.
Yeah guys I was really upset when Ross was let go or not rehired. I know he is not Vinny, but I grew up with Ross all the same. He was always the working man's Vinny to me. Vin is the best, I mean the best and I know that Ross had his own style, sometimes to the point of aggrevation (welp here comes karrus, did you know in day game past 3:30 PM karrus is 5 for 11 with 3 homeruns?) but he was like your crazy uncle that you just loved..
hey ebbets,
I'm trying, I'm trying…
jungar, agreed… I grew up with Porter as well and we seem to have a void now that he's gone.
Now you're talking let's keep it up as long as we can.
Speaking of Ross Porter, Travis Barbary (Dodgers minor league catching coach) does a dead-on imitation!
I like Steiner though…I know others don't but I do but I miss Ross. He would just ramble and ramble on…The worst is Monday. When he calls the game on the radio it's like the game distracts him from the story he is telling. So then he tries to make up for it…"The first pitch a ball and now a now double to left …"
Harvey is much better at his job than his immediate predecessors. He does present more than one point of view; it is just that he has a point of view of his own, not bought and paid for by the Dodgers. And the fact that the fans are frustrated with management choices by the Dodgers is hardly his fault.
Of course, there was a good host of Dodgertalk who travelled with the team and brought balance and perspective while being generally positive about the Dodgers: Ross Porter. You fired him.
Scott, the guy you responded to hates our prospects, so it's obvious that he wouldn't like Bob Harvey (who praises them all the time). Best to just ignore him.
Posted by: email@example.com | September 18, 2007 09:17 AM
First off… I don't hate the dodger rookies… I think rookies are essential to the game to move on…
What I do dislike is to rely on the kids in crucial situations… why you would have "the kids" batting 3rd in a major market team just blows my mind. Rookies should be batting 6th on…
so big papa duck….you don't want Loney hitting third? Or Kemp? both of whom are hitting over .400 when they are in that spot in the lineup?
holy ****. I think we just found Ned Colletti's personal email address.
Secondly… at least A Martinez talks to the players… unlike Bob "The Tool" Harvey.
bigpapaduck, who do you propose bat third? Nomar, Gonzo? In the absence of a true power hitter on the team, you have to go with who's hot, and right now Kemp, Loney, Ethier and Martin are the 4 options that I would use to bat 3rd and 5th. I would not bat Gonzo or Nomar in the 3 hole as their age has been exposed. The Dodgers need to win out to have a shot at the playoffs, so major market or not, they need production and the kids are getting it done.
Would it kill Steiner to mention the score at least?
Who do you think is better in the 3 spot than Loney or Kemp?
You're just not being honest if you say Gonzo or Nomar or you're a poor judge of talent.
I agree with Bigpapaduck. Problem is our rookies are better than the players who were suppossed to be batting 3-4-5. That's been my take all year. We are too old and too young all at the same time. But when in doubt, I will go with the young. They will get better for it. The old guys will just get older.
LOL, I don't know about you max but I want our best hitter in the 3 hole, he can be a rookie or a 20-year vet, he just better be our best option…cough,cough…Loney, Kemp.
nope… becase they dont have the major league experiance in a playoff run. we are a major market team and should have someone who is a solid vetern with palyoff experiance in that role… (A-Rod) anyone.. how about Mike Lowell… etc…
well said charris, that's exactly my point. We have the veterans, they just can't get it done anymore.
thank you jungar… Gonzo and Nomar arent the answer… should have made a major move at the deadline… (like the Braves did) Texeria would have been a nice fit.
bigpapaduck, If we had one of those 2 guys on this team, we would not be worried about the wild card. But, since we don't have Arod or Lowell, we have Gonzo and Nomar that is precisely why Loney and or Kemp are batting 3rd. You don't make a great argument when you use hypothetical players on a team that is knee deep in the reality of how much it needs a power hitter.
My point I guess is that you don't know how a younster might react to a playoff run, some buckle under the pressure, others thrive. Loney has been nothing short of remarkable the past few weeks so it's pretty apparent to me that he doesn't get fazed by the October scramble. To bat under-producing veterans in those places by default is counterproductive to our team.
bigpapaduck, I assume you'd much rather have Brett Tomko making todays start instead of Chad Billingsley then?
I don't agree with Texiera (just to much to give up at that point of the year), but the season was lost in the offseason. As you say, we are a major market team with a 100 million payroll and all of baseball knew we needed a big bat for the middle of the order and we got Juan Pierre.
I understand the market was limited but with the talent on the major leauge roster, the talent in the farm and the finances we have our GM somehow, someway (trade, free agency) should have gotten it done and he didn't. To me that's the key problem looking back on 07. Alot of faults could be hidden with a true in his prime middle of the order bat to go along with Kent and emerging talent.
jungar, i with you on the Ross Porter and Rick Monday comments…who else would rather just hear Vinny broadcast the whole game on the radio? Is it a no brainer or what?
Game 1 Lineup provided by Tony Jackson:
SS Furcal
CF Pierre
RF Kemp
2B Kent
1B Loney
C Martin
3B LaRoche
LF Ethier
RH Billingsley
I like Rick Monday, I just don't enjoy listening to him. Steiner needs to call the game instead of name dropping from his old yankees or ESPN days. Vinny can tell a story AND not miss a beat with the action on the field, that's why he's the best that ever was. I always enjoyed Ross. Maybe too many weird stats, and he called Mondesi "RAWL", but I still liked him!
I think the point bigpapaduck is trying to make is that it's a sad fact in itself that with a 100 million team we are hoping to make the playoffs by hitting a rookie third and platooning our other best rookie and relying on a 2nd year pitcher and a two other 2nd year players.
WOW, Alex!
Probably resting the vets for the all important game 2?
Based off of the splits, here's my prediction for both games:
vs. Jeff Francis
Furcal, Pierre, Loney, Kent, Kemp, Martin, Ethier, LaRoche, Bills
vs. Mark Redman
Furcal, Pierre, Loney, Kent, Nomar, Kemp, Ethier, Lieberthal
Gonzo has no success against Francis nor Redman, but Grady may start him in one of the games anyway which would be a mistake. And let me make this clear right here and now. Gonzo should NOT start the first three games of this series. I think Kent will play both games he kills Francis, but Abreu may get the start in the nightcap.
Posted by: firstname.lastname@example.com | September 17, 2007 10:04 PM
Maybe Grady wants to save his job….
exit, What do you mean save his job? Haven't you heard, he's doing a great job and he'll be back next season. Grady enjoys job security. He will be around next season because Ned likes the job he's done with this years team, but he won't give him an extension. So with all his job security, he goes into next season as a lame duck manager. Go Grady!!!
great points made…but something about the whole $100M+ payroll. It was not to improve the team but rather a PR move. Now the McNuggets can say "…hey look we are trying the payroll is over $100M…so we have the money…"
See they are trying to imbue the team with perceived value. Meaning if something looks to be expensive then it must be a good product. In turn those who buy the product feel somehow "empowered" because they bought "the best" and are therefore "elite". If you dissect the marketing spin and PR spin one can easily see this is the goal of the whole organization. Image over substance.
The Dodger organization is about manipulation of the whole thing. Welcome to big business that makes you frustrated when dealing with AmeriCorps…it now runs the Dodgers too. So, dance puppets dance, the Dodger ownership and management has zero respect for your intelligence…to the point they expect, errr-ummmm, DEMAND you will ignore what you see and know to be true in favor of what they TELL YOU is the "truth".
To the Dodger management/ownership…win or begone…period.
grumpy that was awesome.
yeah Max I guess grady didn't listen to Gonzo's pleas of Vets can do it better..Whenever we need a win he goes with the kids. Hmmm….
You guys put way too much thought into this…I sat down last night and took 5 minutes to look through some numbers and I gave you the exact same eight men for today's game. You guys are looking for something that is not there, no matter how much you want there to be something. You're scrapping at the bottom of the bowl.
That should be the ********* lineup for the rest 13 games. Everytime it comes down to a must win, Grady always plays the kids.
"If LH hitters are slg. 40% more than RH hitters then Gonzo should start; can't you see that? I hope not next year but still this year.It depends on Kemp's continuing development.(of course Gonzo will be gone I assume and hope)".
FALSE! Do you honestly think Gonzo has more of a chance for success against righties than kemp does? Come on! You need to be real! And its not even that, lets give Kemp experience now. Like Gonzo says, he is going to need it through out his career.
Also, side note. I think there might of been a mis communication with Josh and Bob Harvey. I think Josh was calling in as a fan, not an employee of the Dodgers, nad admitted to Dodger management should be embarrassed, not the show !
I love that call, grumpy – "WIN OR BEGONE".
You can apply that to Josh as well as far as I'm concerned.
Alex –
It doesn't MATTER about numbers with Gonzo and Kemp. Gonzos numbers are pre dinosaur age. Kemps our future. He deserves to play…….everyday. Thanks!
ok… my point exactly.. todays lineup has 6 kids in it… WE ARE IN A PLAYOFF PUSH and we have 6 kids in the lineup… and no I wouldn't rather have bombko, but I'd rather have a good veteran pitcher make the start say… Matsuzaka
The rationalization ship has sailed.
And for anyone who hasn't heard the Dodger Talk broadcast that is the subject of this post you can hear it via podcast on the kfwb website. Or through this link that may or may not work.
^^^^^It works. Use it.
Matsuzaka a veteran picther? Wow, I'll be sure to ignore everything you post from now on.
Bills has been better than Dice-K bigpapa…
Why don't you take your veterans somewhere else.
I couldn't agree more there are very few people on here who are rationale about anything. So, thanks for pointing out what is so obvious.
There are stats to back any argument in baseball Alex. If it's not stats, it's gut feeling, or veteran experience, or some other intangible. Baseball is great like that. I love your ambition and attitude but your fighting a losing battle here cowboy.
Then you're the quitter nkirby, you're given up. That to me is a battle you can never win.
Given up….. on Grady.
today line up courtesy of fox sports
If that's the line up, then tonite we look forward to Gonzo, Nomar and Shea.. Maybe Abreu for Kent and maybe Young for Pierre..LOL!!! Had to throw that in there.
99.99% of us love this lineup and I would have no problem taking my chances the rest of the way with it.
I can dream can't I?
It looks like most of you want Grady fired. Who would you want to manage the Dodgers in 2008 and why ?
the only difference i see tonight will be kent and laroche sitting tonight. abreu and nomar will play tonight, if grady wants to win both games.
But gut feeling kent will play both games, maybe only taking off a couple of innings off in the first game.
I still like Kennedy or Gibson or Girardi.
Hey Scott, why do you like Kennedy ?
Josh must be really upset, he has even posted the line-up!!!!!
Yeah, he was a a-hole while with boston.
I think Josh is busy with damage control.
Kennedy was in the old Dodger system for a while and he seems to be in agreement with a lot of our concerns, but I do notice some of you do not like him so that makes me a little hesitant.
I'm ok with the other options I mentioned no problem.
Chiming in on the announcers talk……I never liked Ross…..actually bordered on hate. The reason is that Ross was never positive on the Dodgers. He would always give his stats that should the Dodgers in a negative light. Even if a player was having a great streak, he would always revert back to when that player was slumping. So if a player was hitting 39 out of his last 90 at-bats, he would go back and say prior to that, he was 10 out of 60 and harp on that during the player's at bat. Or if the Dodgers blew a lead, as it was happening on the field, his voice seemed to have a bit of excitement (or schaudenfreund) in it. (For those of your who don't know what schaudenfreund is, it's a German term that basically means "to get satisfaction in the misery of others")
Now, I don't always want a rosy picture of something. But Ross was always finding and announcing the negative about a player or the Dodgers as a team. That's something that Vin does masterfully…weaving the positive and negative.
James Loney sees Logan White as a second dad…
The last dodger manager to win a WS was Kirk Gibson, so I would go with him. LOL
Hey Scott, I have no problem with Kennedy either. He looks like a good candidate, but I have noticed alot of people don't really like him. I know he had his chances in Texas and Boston, so I don't know if he deserves another chance. I just wonder what Frank McCourt is thinking right now.
I know that their aren't too many pitchers as managers but I also wouldn't mind seeing Hershiser take control, he seems to have a good grasp on ins and outs of the game. Plus I think he'd handle our staff excellently.
Feh, the A team plays while everybody's stuck at work – chances are this afternoon we have to watch Shea, Martinez, Valdez, Gonzo, Nomar, Lieberthal and others bottomfeed their way to a loss.
Or maybe the youngsters, on a day's rest, can mostly play both games … ?
One can but dream 😉
I'm kind of tired of retread managers, but I don't want another Jim Tracy either. maybe someone with a little experience like Girardi.
I think Frank is thinking, "all these mensos keep paying and coming to the game, i'm going to be rich"
It's less than an hour till gametime, and the lineup is not posted here yet? What's up with Josh? I'm thinking he might be fuming over some of the comments posted. Who knows for sure?
Over under on the destruction of this blog– 13 games.
i posted the line up already!!!!!! look up a little bit.
That's funny californiaautorebuilder…
Hey you said before that you are from Sonora ?
great line-up today. I realize that Martin has been burnt up by the manager not being a manager and trying to make him an ASG catcher in favor of the long haul of the season. Martin's 2nd half numbers bear this out too. Better to rest him in the 1st game today and play in the 2nd game.
And Gonzo is one of my fav dudes on the team. One of my Dodger fan buds calls him "Scooter Boy"…basically because she sees him riding his Rascal Scooter around the bases…hehehehe. Gonzo was nails earlier in the season and has done his share offensively. But really it's time for him to be a platoon if he is really about winning.
Same goes for Nomar (I have taken to calling him No-more on most days). He has to realize the young guys are getting it done and the vets simply have not earned their keep or a consistent basis. Nor have the vets shown they are BETTER then the kids. So youth must be served. Play the kids who are hot and play them everyday. And to heck with the fragile ego's of these supposedly sage vets. Thing is the vets will adjust and do the job if platooned or even used off the bench.
Someone needs to show this team the tapes of the '88 season. Tommy used every trick and line-up in the book to win. but he always went with the hot hand. Same for the '81 team too…and then what was it, '85 when Niedenfuer got to know Ozzie Smith the power hitter and Jack Clark became the most hated Dodger rival until Barroid's? That team also had few days of the "regular line-up" as I remember. But Tommy always when with who was hot at the time.
I do agree Tommy was also not always rookie-friendly either. He also tended to fixate on wheezer-geezers to add to the team over kids. But at least Tommy made the moves to try and win.
Sweep the Double Header!
Lineup has already been posted here….
SS Furcal
CF Pierre
RF Kemp
2B Kent
1B Loney
C Martin
3B LaRoche
LF Ethier
RH Billingsley
McCourt has shown he has a short fuse for losing, so let's see what happens. I want the Dodgers to win, but in all honesty, does anyone here really believe that Grady is going to out-manage his counterparts IF we make it to the playoffs?
Roberto, yes i am from sonora, and so is kiper, he actually still lives there!!!!
Next Dodger manager..Orel Hershiser and Kirk Gibson bench coach. That would bring back a few memories and keep players on their toes. Definitely bring some more energy to the clubhouse and dugout than the old southern gentleman Graaaaady.
calautobuilder, correction, I live in Arizona. On the border with Sonora.
i say Gibby manager, orel pitching coach, duncan first base coach, ron cey third base coach, and davey lopes bench coach.
some one needs to teach this players how to "hate" the Giants and Padres franchises. That killer instinct. This laid back, "we'll get them tomorrow" attitude is for little league.
What part of Sonora ? My mom is from Hermosillo. All of her family lives there. I've gone to Sonora a couple of times in the last few years. It's fun. Have you gone to a Naranjeros baseball game ?
good call kiper! That would be so retro-88, I'd love it. Hershiser could leave the offensive intricacies to Gibby and worry about his staff and line-up. Bud Black (another former pitcher) seems to be making all the right decisions for those hated Pads in his first year at the helm.
You're in Nogales Kiper ?
roberto, yes I am…
I have gone to a few Naranjero games myself, as a matter of fact about 10 years ago, Jim Tracy was managing the Naranjeros. Go figure. I saw Fernando pitch for them about 5 years ago, the last year he was here before pitching for Calexico.
I meant Mexicali, not Calexico..
Roberto, from aguaprieta, I haven't been to a ball game there, I heard it's pretty cool. My buddy got the manager job this year for the Aguilas de Mexicali, we grew up together, and played little league and high school ball together, and played against each other in college. His name is Bobby Magallanes, he's actually the manager for the double A team in Arkansas, the Angels affilate.
Catchers seem to make the best managers…Joe Torre, Bob Melvin, Joe Girardi, Bruce Bochy, Ned Yost…say, who was the Dodgers catcher on that '88 team? Oh yeah, never mind…
I would gladly see either Gibson or Hershiser as the manager next year. The key would be who would be Logan White's choice, because I really want him as the GM.
Cool kiper, yeah I've been to a couple of Naranjeros games. Back in 98 I believe, I saw Fernando pitch for them and in 2005 I drove to Mexicali to see Fernando play for the Aguilas. Sometimes when I see Fernando, I tell him "Soy de Sonora!" and he just laughs.
Catchers seem to make the best managers…Joe Torre, Bob Melvin, Joe Girardi, Bruce Bochy, Ned Yost………
Grady Little.
i love that line-up. although andy could be 8th, maybe having ethier behind him will get him some better pitches. but if they pop nomar 5th ahead of all the kids, then andy 7th isn't the end of the world. at least martin and kemp and loney are ahead of him.
so the big Q is the 2nd game. i wonder if nomar is hurt and that's why andy is playing? they said his calf was still bothering him. i will hate to see gonzo play and kemp on the bench for game 2 though. but i'm guessing since its a lefty ethier sits and gonzo plays. but where would he bat? 4th probably since kent will not be playing. i'd rather have loney 4th, martin 5th and gonzo 6th.
Yeah, but Little was a MINOR league catcher, so you finish the sentence….
lol. I am just saying….
Doubleheaders never seem to have sweeps. They are usually splits….1 win and 1 loss. I think in the past year, I've only seen seen one sweep in a double headers.
We can't split since we'll be right where we are today. You need to play your best team always and if that means playing the same guys for 2 games, so be it. You have the whole rest of the day and most of the next day off.
Aguaprieta ? Cool dude. That's nice about your friend. I might go see a game if Fernando comes back and pitches for them again.
Ok but jungar, Bochy is NOT a good manager 🙂
Roberto, where are you now?
From the linked Diamond Leung Press-Enterprise article on Loney and Logan White.
"Loney is hitting .330 with 11 homers, and it is White who has a cult following among fans. A Web petition created last week declares, "Promote Logan White. A brighter future is within reach." "
Well let's hope for a sweep today, since that's the only way we can make up any ground. If we sweep the worst case scenario is a 1/2 game improvement, the Pads and Phillies are just not looking like teams that are gonna lose to many games the rest of the way. The DBacks are sliding and vulnerable, but the Pads stand in the way there also, so we need a sweep today and in the series. With 13 games left, honestly, how many games can the Dodgers afford to lose? I say 2, max or it's over.
yep! run this line-up out there for game 2 (except swap abreu for kent) and let abreau bat 8th and move everyone else up.
i'm nervous of gonzo's "arm" in LF cause that OF is huge!
Did anybody during Sunday's game when Justin Upton of the DBacks stole 2nd base on Lieberthal? Lieberthal's throw sailed into CF and as Upton got up at 2nd Pierre moved in to grab the ball and he was probably no more than 60 – 70 feet from Upton and he, Upton, just got up and cruised into third. It was a total disregard for Pierre and a sign of how people basically laugh at his arm. Wow, and we have him for 4 more years.
Sweep of this DH is absolutely needed.
I live in Southern California, what about you?
Kiper and I Think Blue — i think both of your comments are right on playing all guys and swapping only one or two guys. The kids have the stamina to play 2 games.
A sweep is necessary and will send a strong message to the Rockies that they are posers for the post-season.
Kiper — Do you think we can move Pierre to the infield? It doesn't seem possible given what we have coming up? You can't really put him at 3B since that's tradionally a power hitting position and a hot spot defensively. You could wait until after next year when Furcal goes and put him at SS or 2B and let Abreu play.
orth, Pierre has a heck of a time fielding fly balls, imagine a hot chopper to him that catches him in between bounces, not going to happen. The guy doesn't have the glove or arm for SS, and he will not be moved to 2b, so he will be in the outfield, I just wish they would consider moving him to LF and let Kemp play CF.
Kiper…I agree moving him to another field that benefits either Kemp or Ethier is better. I know he was brought in for his speed and offense, it's just that he hasn't "balanced" that in the wins-loss…..i.e. we've won more games than lost more games because of him.
BTW….I know this is more on the reporters but I don't want to hear any more "We've got to win games"-type of quotes in the paper from the likes of Pierre or Seanez when these guys have cost us more games than won.
You can't put him at 3rd because he's throw left handed and the only spot is as 1st base and you're not going to removed Loney there. I don't know how many left-handed played 2nd, SS or 3rd bases.
I just listened to Dodger Talk from 9/16 and I have to say that Josh has no business telling Bob that his show is embarassing. You are a public relations director for a professional franchise. I suggest you act professional. This team is being managed into the ground and Bob is the only one in the media with any balls to say so. I am a lifelong Dodger fan and I make trips out to LA every season to watch games and I never complain about the prices because I always thought it was worth the price. I thought I was supporting an organization that knew what it was doing? Now, it has became apparently clear that this organization is a MESS. Once Logan White leaves to become a GM somewhere else, and it will happen, the Dodgers will just sink farther into mediocrity. And why wouldn't they, our GM believes in washed up vets over young promising players. Once Logan leaves, our farm system will erode, but Ned will overcome that because he has a great eye for major league talent. Look at his track record- Pierre, Nomar, Gonzo, Schmidt, Tomko, Hendrickson, Hernandez, Loaiza, Mueller, Baez, Carter, Seo, and Wolfe. A job well done Ned.
Spin it any way you want Josh, but the bottom line is Ned and Grittle did not get it done and Grittle is a terrible manager.
Mr. Rawitch, Do you know what is an embarrassment?
1. The size of the Dodger payroll and it's inability to be competitive in a so-so division.
2. Increasing the cost of tickets and parking to cover the price of lackluster performance.
3. The idea that the team wants to imped the free speech of fans.
4. The paid attendance figures given during a game, purporting a near sell out crowd, when the stadium is less than half full.
I have been a Dodger fan all my life, as were my father and grand-father before me. The ineptitude of Dodger management shows little improvement over the Fox-era. If things do not change soon I will cease attending games and buying Dodger merchandise, only watching games from home that Vin Scully Covers and once he passes so too will my fervor for the Los Angeles Dodgers.
I just read dodgerblues which led me to the Plaschke article. Man, bad news. Josh, I like you, appreciate you, and respect you. However, I think you were way out of line for calling Harvey during the broadcast and calling the show an "embarrassment." Are you kidding me? Harvey has been a refreshing voice to turn to after a game throughout the entire season. Regardless of a win or a loss, he's been articulate, accepting of all view points, enjoyable, and has shown himself to possess a great mind for the game. He understands baseball and he understands the need of fans to sing their praises and voice their frustrations. It's not hard to predict his dismissal. Quite possibly in the middle of the off-season, discreetly; you know, sort of like Ross Porter…
I love the Dodgers so, so much. I can voice my opinions, frustrations, anger at management, front office, owners, players, etc. but it doesn't change my love of this team. That will never go away. I will continue to buy tickets, new hats, shirts and the like year in, year out. Why should Harvey have to be a "homer?" In the words of the late great Red Barber to Vin Scully, "if you want to be successful, don't be a homer."
Go blue. Now stop the spinning nonsense.
Wow, Josh, no runs, no hits and one huge PR error! Part of the allure of being a hardcore Dodger fan is second guessing managerial decisions and player acquisitions. It's office fodder here at our company and we have a ton of fun with it. WE as fans sometimes need to vent our frustrations as WE see them. If my son's youth ball travel team wins a tournament, the managerial staff are heros. We lose, they're all idiots. That's part of the fun. You like facts? Many of the bloggers have posted facts that back up the listener's comments on KFWBs Dodger Talk. I ALWAYS listen in for the fun and the opinions of Mr. Harvey and the callers. It's part of the fun. Lighten up stud.
If this huge error on your part affects the KFWB/Dodger radio contract, you then should join Mr. Little in the unemployment line. I'm an old guy loves the Dodgers and was present at Roy Campanella night at the L.A. Coliseum. I have stuck by them as many have through thick and thin. KFWB's Dodger Talk is not going to drive us to Anaheim, actions like yours will.
Does anyone know where or how it's possible to listen to the clip from Sunday night's DodgerTalk? After hearing so much and reading Plachke's column, I'd like to hear everything myself. Thanks.
Your actions were completely cowardly and unprofessional. You should be fired.
DodgerTalk is a TALK show. It's not news reporting. If you want news reporting, you can ask for balance, but this is TALK. Take your criticisms like a man. You have a right to free speech. You and the front office do not have a right to be free from getting your feelings hurt.
Wow, another year of no play off wins, underachieving vets, a clueless manager, a GM that can only hire ex-Giants and ex-Red Sox, and it's the media's fault. Gee, and McCourt wanted to buy the Red Sox. He'd get eaten alive in Boston.
I owned Dodgers season tickets for 23 years. I gave them up this year because I refuse to pay my hard-earned money to annoying, self-absorbed amateurs like Frank and Jamie McCourt. What I always liked about the O'Malley regime is that the front office respected the fans and didn't patronize and insult them with constant corporate spin. That all changed under FOX and has been accelerated under the McCourts. You Dodger front office hacks remind me of fundamentalist religionists — any criticism or dissent is blasphemy that must be stomped out. Unfortunately, your mediocre team stinks, and everyone knows it. Whiny little kiss a^s Yes Man bloggers like Josh Rawitch, and slick spin doctors like Camille Johnston won't stop people from criticizing the Dodgers lousy play, and when you do we fans just mock you incessantly for the boot lickers that you are.
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