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Every day the likes of Google and Microsoft push me further and further out of their domain. I stopped using Google search 2 years ago, Chrome long before that; I stopped using Hotmail 3 years ago, Office long before that. I already have OpenSUSE on dual-boot, it feels like it won't be long before I take the "dual" out of that, or at least push Windows to the side, just use it for games that won't run on Linux.
Windows Store nixed Google Chrome 'app' hours after it went live
Microsoft has bounced a Google Chrome Installer out of its Windows Store, just hours after making it available for download. Google's "Chrome" app was a minimalist offering – merely sending the user to the official Chrome download app. In a statement to the press, Microsoft said it had removed the Chrome Installer because it …
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:12 GMT Just Enough
This post has been deleted by its author
Wednesday 20th December 2017 21:41 GMT Jamie Jones
Monday 25th December 2017 11:30 GMT P. Lee
Re: Congrats!
But the story isn't really about Windows.
Its about:
1. The windows store doing the right thing (by its users) and junking third-party installers for big-name software. They are almost always going to lead to bad things.
2. The windows store doing the wrong thing (by its users) and blocking alternatives to MS products.
So its actually an ecosystem story and in that context, talk of ditching increasingly closed ecosystems is valid comment. In fact, I'm not sure how you can comment on app store policy without commenting on ecosystem issues.
And in the spirit of sharing, opensuse here (including steam gaming), though with xfce since kde stability has gone to the dogs on my particular kit. BSD (pfsense) on the firewall and mail servers.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:36 GMT Anonymous Coward
The point Geniality is making is perfectly valid and relevant. There are many of us who use both, me included. Until Windows 10, I didn't really care which I was using, so long as it had the tools I needed, the only time I rebooted between them was when the tool was in one and not the other. Since Windows 10, my laptop no longer dual boots and I do as much as I can in Linux on the PC, because it doesn't interrupt me with forced updates and reboots.
This is another decision, in the long line of recent MS decisions that are pushing users away, the users who are most easily pushed away are those with somewhere else to go (Linux, MacOS, the BSDs).
By not allowing Chrome in the Windows Store, it results in a worse end-user experience - we have to keep the Chrome updater instead of it updating through the Store. You must have heard us Linux fanboys going on about "one click updates" to update everything (apps & OS) - this is MS's opportunity to have the same seamless updating by using the Windows Store + Windows Update, and they're throwing it away over a rendering engine.
The Windows Store is also their opportunity to reprogram users into getting software from the Store, instead of all the unverifiable websites out there hosting who knows what. That can only improve Windows security.
A rendering engine is not worth the negativity it'll bring to the Windows Store.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:56 GMT Naselus
Wednesday 20th December 2017 15:39 GMT Steve the Cynic
Since Windows 10, my laptop no longer dual boots and I do as much as I can in Linux on the PC, because it doesn't interrupt me with forced updates and reboots.
Windows 10 has never interrupted me with anything like that. Sure, it tells me there's an update, and offers to reboot, but it has *never* forced the issue. (That said, at work I use FreeBSD...)
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:24 GMT JohnFen
"Windows 10 has never interrupted me with anything like that."
You're lucky. Despite telling Windows not to, it consistently reboots to install updates whenever it damned well feels like it.
The fall creator's update was extra annoying, because it took a full hour to complete the update. What did I get in exchange for being unable to work for an hour? Not a damned thing.
Windows 10 is one of the most annoying and infuriating OSes that I've used.
Thursday 21st December 2017 15:18 GMT keith_w
Thursday 21st December 2017 19:04 GMT Donn Bly
you are aware, are you not, that you can tell W10 when to install updates? Including when you are not there to be interrupted
The "Choose When Updates Are Installed" option lets you select between which Semi-Annual update channel to which you wish to subscribe. It does not, however, let you specify a time.
There is no option in my W10 that allows me to tell it when to install updates such as the 3AM default on earlier versions of the OS. The only thing you can do is give it a time window -- except that you can't give it an active time range of more than 18 hours, give it a split time window, or tell it which days -- and even then it still puts popups on the screen over the top of what you are working on DURING the "active hours".
So, when I am watching a training video and Windows decides to reboot without visible warning (because the video is playing full screen) or when it reboots while I run grab a cup of coffee when I'm working later into the evening -- I'm f*cked.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 16:17 GMT Tigra 07
Wednesday 20th December 2017 17:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 20:18 GMT Rifter00
Thursday 21st December 2017 19:18 GMT Ilsa Loving
Thursday 21st December 2017 21:31 GMT Danny 14
Re: RE: AC
you can only choose update times if you are using enterprise AND wsus. Even then some updates can ignore the update time gpo.
you also only get 2 years on feature updates. i have 1603 that ive not updated as im curious to see what will actually happen ccome march (it isnt internet connected at the moment)
Friday 22nd December 2017 14:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:51 GMT bombastic bob
MUST use engines provided by Windows
From the article:
"Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate HTML and JavaScript engines provided by the Windows Platform"
and (quoted from post I reply to)
"This is another decision, in the long line of recent MS decisions that are pushing users away, the users who are most easily pushed away are those with somewhere else to go"
And the 2nd quote is a BRILLIANT assessment of where Micro-shaft currently is.
I have to wonder if Micro-shaft is *ALSO* *HOBBLING* "The Store" UWP CRapps by (essentially) forcing them into having 2D FLATSO FLUGLY interfaces.
Some recent experiences between me Micro-shaft have shown me that the rank/file people are REALLY TRYING to make customers happy and be reasonable. But their overall infrastructure AND bureaucracy, *ESPECIALLY* dealing with "The Store", has shown me that it's a *COMPLETE* *CLUSTER* *BLANK*. What used to work (let's say renew MSDN), but now *MUST* be done through "The Store", has broken, in a bad way. And though good people at low levels do their best to try and "fix it", and I most definitely appreciate their efforts, they are up against an INTERNAL BUREAUCRACY that is as OPPRESSIVE as [here comes the politics] a SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIP.
But I've commented on that MANY times before, and I've experienced the effects of it first-hand. I've interpreted the results of "decisions from on high" within their corporation, and seen how a small number of "activist types" are driving the ship towards the rocks. I've seen (and then pointed out) specific people who are KNOWN to be responsible, none of whom seem to work for the company any more. And yet... STILL, the problems remain, and Micro-shaft CONTINUES to go down the SAME road to HELL as they were when they horked-up "The Metro", Win-10-nic, GWX, UWP, and "The Store".
Yes... those who HAVE an alternative already are moving towards it. I pity those who do NOT.
/me runs FreeBSD most of the time, with Linux and 'some windows' thrown in their, though I _still_ keep my MSDN subscription alive... I guess I'm nostalgically hopeful or something.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 22:06 GMT Jamie Jones
Re: MUST use engines provided by Windows
Dammnit Bob. By the time I managed to filter out the ranting, bad grammar, and RANDOM use OF capital LETTERS, you almost managed to make a good point.
But then you wrote "SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIP" and your Fox-and-Friends alarm went off.
Please explain what it worse about the (rare) Socialist dictatorships, compared to the much more common religious or capitalist-anarchic dictatorships?
Quoting Alex Wong:
"There's nothing inherent about communism or socialism that leads to being a dictatorship. There are democracies that are communist like Nepal, there are oligarchies like China and you have social democracies like Sweden, or flawed democracies like Venezuela. In comparison, look at capitalist countries. You have a brutal monarchy in Saudi Arabia that leads the world in human rights abuses, failed states like Afghanistan or Somalia, flawed democracies like Italy or one party states like Singapore, South Korea and Japan."
Thursday 1st March 2018 07:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
"This is another decision, in the long line of recent MS decisions that are pushing users away, the users who are most easily pushed away are those with somewhere else to go (Linux, MacOS, the BSDs)".
Exactly. MS know they cannot "lock us in" as we have the knowledge to "circumvent" their attempted lock-ins. Therefore we aren't worth bothering with. For every one of us there are 10 users who don't know what Linux is or Android. THAT is the kind of user MS wants.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:54 GMT MonkeyCee
"just use it for games that won't run on Linux."
So you run Windows then. For the applications you want that aren't easily accessible on Linux. Yet to meet a game I can't run on Linux, but you often need a fully patched version on Windows, which often makes the whole exercise redundant.
Look, I'm happy to get into "one true Scotsman/OS/text editor" arguments over the appropriate beverage, but in practice purists are down right frustrating. Most ideologues are also happy to be quite contrary when it comes to things they like/want. Like vegan tree huggers that don't see a problem with taking ecstasy or coke, but will lecture you on the environmental perils of coffee drinking and chocolate consumption.
You use the tools appropriate for the job at hand. Depending on where you work, that may well mean that you use tools that other people have sourced which you wouldn't touch with a bargepole. I'd love to say to users "oh, you wrote a 400 page document in Word and now it's corrupted? Well, that'll learn ya, use LaTex next time, now off you fuck" but that's not very helpful.
"I stopped using Google search 2 years ago"
And replaced it with what? I'm serious here, I'll use anom methods of searching, but I find that most results are either from Google one way or another, or are just shit. For specific instances you don't need it, but then you're searching a specific database like PubMed. Which may be using Google products on it's back end, but you don't really know.
"I stopped using Hotmail 3 years ago"
I'd love to. In fact the only use I have for Hotmail is that it's part of my MS Live ID thingy, and that's required for me to be certified by MS. If I'm not certified and I bugger up something on a MS system, my indemnity insurance won't cover me, and that will cost me my savings, business and probably my house.
"Office long before that"
So no jobs in corporate then? Fair enough.
I could also refuse to work on any MS systems. Let me know how many "pure" linux installations are out there in the real world that are not part of a tech/research outfit. Most of my clients are from non-tech sectors, and if they are really lucky they will have the choice of two business applications, both of which have the user facing stuff run on Windows. Sometimes there's only one vendor, also Windows only.
I'm not a fan of MS business practices, and while I own Google stock, they are pretty shady too. But they are market leaders whose products are used by billions, so you you can't declare you're not going to use them and still find work in operations.
I <3 linux too, for almost any dedicated system, or for fiddling in the software equivalent of "no user serviceable parts".
As an example, I build GPU miners. They are about as solid in linux or windows, although you can crank a little more out of the cards in linux. However, the linux tools for bios editing (OSS) and overclocking are rubbish, so it would be impossible to work out a cards best performance in linux alone, and pretty hairy to flash those settings to BIOS for each test. But benchmark them in Windows then flash them in Windows and drop them into a linux box and they'll be just fine.
Use the right tools for the job.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:58 GMT AdamWill
Re: So...
"Look, I'm happy to get into "one true Scotsman/OS/text editor" arguments over the appropriate beverage, but in practice purists are down right frustrating."
But, er, no-one claimed to be a purist. Both the OP and the person responding to him talked about using both Linux and Windows, but attempting to minimize their use of Google and Microsoft software as much as seemed practical to them. So...not purists, then. Sort of the opposite of purists, really. So...who are you arguing with, here, exactly?
Wednesday 20th December 2017 22:23 GMT PeteA
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 4th January 2018 16:52 GMT Not That Andrew
Wednesday 20th December 2017 12:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 15:01 GMT Stephen Clifford
Nope - because it wasn't Chrome anyway.
It was a link to the Chrome installer - which you then had to run to install Chrome itself.
So, it still wouldn't have been installable on Windows 10 S.
And, this isn't exactly Microsoft's fault - Google have shown they're willing to play by the rules to get Chrome into iOS, so they can do the same for Windows 10.
People always complain about Windows and how on older PC's it runs slow - Windows 10 S is Microsoft's answer to that by trying to ensure that applications installed do pass basic quality assurance. And then people complain because Microsoft is stopping them doing what they used to do previously (which cause the problems in the first place).
Oh - and let's not forget, anyone reading, and commenting in, The Reg are almost definitely going to consider themselves more of a 'Power User' than the majority of the population so lets take comments here with a pinch of salt on how they'd affect 'everyday users'.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 17:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Google have shown they're willing to play by the rules to get Chrome into iOS, so they can do the same for Windows 10."
That's the thing it is a game and a stupid one at that. You have Chrome by name but it's a completely different offering on IOS. So you can create a PWA with service workers and although Safari on IOS won't work with it (yet - although Safari on MAC OS will) you could just fire up Chrome, right? Wrong as Chrome on IOS isn't allowed to use service workers either and has to use a different rendering engine.
Do we really want this extended to every platform each with their own renderers, quirks and features? Preferably not.
Apple can get away with it because IOS is so big, Microsoft can't because Windows Mobile is non existent and the Windows store not required.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 22:05 GMT Adam 1
@Stephen, whilst you are correct to say that the installer won't work on Windows S, I don't think that is really the point. I'm sure the brains at Google could figure out how to build the same code base for multiple platform targets if that was the only barrier.
The real barrier to choice is the requirement to be a wrapper around Edge. This isn't a technical constraint, but a commercial one. Do you want to associate your brand with the capabilities and performance or otherwise of the Edge rendering engine? Whilst it is an OK browser in my view (and certainly the best they have managed to produce to date), there already exists a perfectly acceptable Edge browser for those who want to experience that rendering engine. There is no need for a second one with a different logo.
They made a choice to wrapper Safari on iOS. I believe that was a mistake. They should have written a blog post on why they cannot produce a real Chrome browser on iOS due to Apple policies, express regret, and express hope that they may one day permit the world's best* browser to be enjoyed by those choosing the iOS platforms for tablet and phones. As it stands, they are second class citizens. Even though the same rendering engine is used, performance can never equal Safari because of differences in the threading models between the built in Safari browser and what apps can do. So your page will now render with the safari quirks, not implement a bunch of standards that all the others (including Edge) do, but do so even slower than the one that comes preinstalled. Where do I sign up? I'm guessing they did it to drive Chrome on MacOS. If there's a few more generations of ho hum same same notched fashion accessories and market share drops to the fanboys only, watch Google drop support for it.
*Yeah I know
Thursday 21st December 2017 12:20 GMT Stephen Clifford
"The real barrier to choice is the requirement to be a wrapper around Edge. This isn't a technical constraint, but a commercial one. Do you want to associate your brand with the capabilities and performance or otherwise of the Edge rendering engine? Whilst it is an OK browser in my view (and certainly the best they have managed to produce to date), there already exists a perfectly acceptable Edge browser for those who want to experience that rendering engine. There is no need for a second one with a different logo."
As I said though, people reading The Reg are more likely 'Pro' users at least. The vast majority of people on the street really don't care about rendering engines within web browsers. What they want is a web browser that syncs between their mobile, their tablet and their computer with a reassuring icon between all device types. If I bookmark something on my tablet, I want it to be there on my PC when I load up the browser. There are ALSO a lot of users who see the 'Chrome' icon now as 'The Internet'. I remember trying to explain to my step mother a few years back when she got an iPad that she had to tap the Safari icon to browse the web and in the end just gave up and installed Chrome because she could never see the icon.
A 'wrapper' for Edge that skins it to look like Chrome and syncs with your Google account would be EXACTLY what a lot of users would want.
Thursday 21st December 2017 22:09 GMT Adam 1
that's backwards
You seem to think it is Google's job to make iOS easier to use. There are plenty of tablets out there which can run chrome/Firefox/opera/Vivaldi/palemoon and would happily run Edge or Safari if the authors of those browsers elected to publish them. I too have some family who .... struggle .... with things technical, but even they learn very quickly after you show them the "internet button". Of all the .... limitations .... in Safari, for me, the icon is way down on the list. In fact, I will admit to liking that icon. If they need to see the Chrome icon, any of those tablets will suffice.
The rendering engine isn't some abstract concept. It is the biggest difference between ie6 and modern Chrome. Poor* rendering engines directly hurt your experience. They may be slow, use more memory, draw incorrectly (or fail to draw), and fail to protect you from threats by ignoring CSP rules. It directly influences whether you think your tablet is too old which costs you real money if you buy a new one.
*and add to that poorly maintained
Wednesday 20th December 2017 22:29 GMT PeteA
Wednesday 20th December 2017 12:58 GMT wallaby
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:15 GMT Anonymous Coward
And I have to wonder why people get so sensitive over an operating system. Linux is an alternative to it, so why not bring it up in the context of a negative story about Windows? As the article mentions, the Windows Store is filled with scam apps, it's not my fault Microsoft (or Google) can't fix their own storefront.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:23 GMT wallaby
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
I didn't claim any high ground, I just claimed it as an alternative. Hell, I even pointed out that I'd still use Windows, because it's a tool that has advantages over its competition. This is what I don't get, two gigantic corporations are having a pissing contest over apps and people are getting defensive because someone points out there's an alternative.
Thursday 21st December 2017 00:35 GMT Teiwaz
Mr Adams, have an apple...
Had Douglas Adams been alive today he might have re used his line thus :-
"who cursed and swore at him from a moral high ground that Linux users alone seem able to inhabit"
But then, the late Mr Adams was a long time Apple fan....although it never stopped him being critical when he thought they'd made a poor choice...
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:52 GMT Naselus
"Linux is an alternative to it, so why not bring it up in the context of a negative story about Windows?"
Because it's completely irrelevant to a story about Google Chrome being rejected from a single distribution channel to an operating system that is not Linux? Or because, in many cases, the sparse ecosystem of 2nd-rate Open Source apps means Linux actually isn't an alternative (go ask Munich how effective their Linux switchout was), and so endlessly hunting for excuses to bring it up is a complete waste of time?
Also, Windows users aren't actually sensitive about their OS - every Windows story is accompanied by plenty of people pointing out the flaws with the operating system and bitching about Microsoft. That doesn't mean they should have to put up with a constant deluge of pointless 'Personally, I use Linux and now I sit atop a pile of smug self-satisfaction about it, assured that merely installing a 15-month old copy of Mint has made me a computing God' posts. Who's it going to convince? I'm not likely to nip over to my bosses' office and tell him we need to re-image 15000 PCs with Linux just because a 17-year old found he could browser porn on Ubuntu just as effectively as on Windows.
A negative Linux story, on the other hand, is invariably the site of much whataboutism ("Well, maybe this kernel bug means that there's a raging escalation of privilege exploit in the wild, but what about when Windows 98 did something similar 19 years ago?") and denial. Plus, there's that insecure need to constantly inject it into every conversation regardless of whether it's remotely relevant, like a 17 year old who's just read The Communist Manifesto and now needs to make it clear he's a Marxist every time you ask him what he wants for dinner.
So really, which group is oversensitive about its favourite OS?
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:02 GMT wallaby
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:16 GMT Charles 9
Plus you have to understand that Stupid Users WAY outnumber smart users and THEIR dollars are what tell Microsoft's board what to do given Stupid Users also outSPEND smart users by their sheer numbers. This means Microsoft has to cater to Stupid Users who wouldn't know an worm from a clickbait AND can take other people with them when things go wrong. And us Smart Users have to realize we live in a world surrounded by Stupid (and not just Stupid, Cockbill Street Stupid who refuse who acknowledge their own stupidity).
And for those who say Linux is all sunshine, remind them of Slapper.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 20:01 GMT bombastic bob
"one day maybe someone will post a story about Microsoft that wont get usurped by the penguins"
Micro-shaft would have to roll back their business strategies and internal policies NEARLY TWO DECADES for *THAT* to happen. Their current stupidity began when Ballmer took the helm, with the ".Not" initiative [which eventually morphed into the 'windows logon' that Win-10-nic practically STRONGARMS you into], which was originally called "Passport", and all of the big "dot com" people laughed hysterically at [as in 'why must we pay a toll to Micro-shaft for what we do already for FREE???'].
SO... as long as Micro-shaft continues to do STUPID THINGS and make STUPID POLICIES, I'm sure that the ratio of unfavorable to favorable articles will continue to be a value significantly greater than one. And "the penguins" (I guess I'm one too, even though I'm running FBSD for day-to-day things) will continue to point out, as a public service, the ~superior~ choice of alternative (and free) OS known as Linux.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 21:41 GMT Geoffrey W
RE: And "the penguins" [...] will continue to point out, as a public service, [Their superiority]
And thus, given the chance and sufficient motivation, I will continue to troll Linux articles and attempt to derail the following comments, highlighting the admittedly exaggerated faults in the feathery community of short legged, useless winged, waddlers. It's childish but, given the level of irritating provocation from such as yourself, it's also supremely satisfying. Back to your guano stained icy colonies with you!
Thursday 21st December 2017 07:18 GMT wallaby
Thursday 21st December 2017 08:50 GMT TonyJ
Honestly....Microshaft, Micro$oft, Slurp, yada yada yada yada
Even if good points are made, puerile and childish name calling detracts from it to the point a lot of people don't even bother to read what's said.
The points that both sides forget all too often are that it's about choice. Yes, really - your average user will choose to buy a computer from the likes of PC World, Dell, HP or even Tesco or Sainsbury's and because it ships with a copy of Windows installed (and it's what they most likely use at work) and it'll run the Office package they mostly know (also from work) and the games they or their kids want to play then they are happy with their choice.
They will never open a machine up, drill down into the guts of either the hardware of software. They don't want to.
The same people happily use Facebook, Google and any other number of sites that gobble up their personal information so the stuff that Windows 10 sends back is of less than no concern to them.
Having had to dig too many people out of the shit in the past because they had hookie copies of XP that wouldn't update, personally, I believe no home versions of Windows should prevent users from (or rather allow users not to) applying updates. Ever. Rather the occasionally borked machine than one with more holes than your average sieve.
Likewise you may be more computer savvy (most certainly if you comment here) and your choice may be one of the many many versions of Linux out there and you really probably enjoy tweaking and playng.
I run both for whatever tools or applications suit my need but I don't feel the need to shout about either or cuss the choices of others.
Likewise, I dont feel the need to constantly complain about things that I last experienced 10 or even 20 years ago - a lot of MS software has moved on. Try some of it. Hell I even got downvoted recently for pointing out that LIbre Office 5.03 (I think it was) had included the option of allowing you to have a ribbon just like MS introduced with Office over a decade ago and to which still dozens of commentards here foam at the mouth about....look around you people....office workers and home users have adapted to it and just get on with it. Hell it's worth saying twice - it's been over a decade...it's not going away.
Seriously....for people that espouse the benefits of the right to choose, some of you are very anti-choice when it doesn't match your personal ideal or idea of the "right" choice!
I've said it before - both sides of this fence need to grow up some. It's an OS not a religion.
Thursday 21st December 2017 18:42 GMT Geoffrey W
Yeah, about that ribbon thing: It's good to see Libre Office is carrying on the Microsoft tradition by making me foam at the mouth. If anyone is tempted to try it out, I can only say beware. I turned it on, then I set one of the alternative display options other than the default, which resulted in a cut-down ribbon with fewer settings. I then discovered there was no way to turn it off again. Nothing on the ribbon itself and the standard menu's became disabled, so no way back to the real world. Well, damn!
I'm sure there is probably a work around I was unable to discover but...watch out! In the end I just reset the configuration, which lost all my additions and settings. BAH! I should probably mention it on the Libre Office site but I'm still foaming.
Monday 19th March 2018 01:18 GMT Updraft102
personally, I believe no home versions of Windows should prevent users from (or rather allow users not to) applying updates.
You seem to share the same confusion as Microsoft over the meaning of the word "ownership." The owner of the computer gets to decide when and whether updates happen. If you're not going to let me (as a hypothetical home user) pick and choose, you've got some 'splaining to do as to why you think you now own my PC even though I can show you the sales receipt proving it's mine. That's the long and short of it right there, and the bit about "otherwise it will be full of security holes" doesn't even enter into it. The ends (having an ostensibly "safe" computer) do not justify the means.
Thursday 21st December 2017 00:32 GMT Teiwaz
Running from or running to...?
one day....... one day maybe someone will post a story about Microsoft that wont get usurped by the penguins and turned into a story about Linux
If it were 'about' Linux, it would all be about what qualities it has that people flock to use it.
All these 'gospels' of the good news are all people running from the annoyances they are fed up with on Windows. Still 'about' Windows after all...
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:11 GMT Craigie
Another reason the MS 'store' will never catch on
'You can only have apps that use our markup rendering engine'. eh, jog on MS. There is no such restriction in any other modern store or market for any platform. Grow a set and let people choose what they browse with, or they'll just continue to choose to not use your 'store' as they do now.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:20 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:57 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 20:06 GMT bombastic bob
Thursday 21st December 2017 08:52 GMT TonyJ
Thursday 21st December 2017 23:18 GMT Eddy Ito
Re: Store is a Verb
... English (Simplified)
Simplified?!?! Don't I wish. At least it's better than some of the other ones you lot have over there. I mean what's up with those "romance" languages where verbs change based on who is performing the action and yet as often as not folk will still use the redundant pronoun. And forget that spoons and bowls having gender which changes the article preceding it. Maybe some simplification would be an improvement.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Store is a Verb
Hmm - "Great Universal Stores" was a UK mail order company in the 1960s. "International Stores" was a chain of high street small supermarkets in the 1970s. Tesco was always a "store" not a "shop" - as was "Harrods".
Store in England tends to be used for the larger retailers - shop is usually something smaller. A bit like the French "magasin" and "boutique" distinctions.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:27 GMT JohnFen
Wednesday 20th December 2017 23:10 GMT Jason Bloomberg
Thursday 21st December 2017 00:10 GMT albaleo
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:31 GMT Laughing Gravy
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:45 GMT Lysenko
Re: I use Linux
I write software for Linux and embedded microcontrollers - on Windows. I have three physical Linux machines (not counting servers) and any number of VMs, but 90% of my work is conducted on Windows[1], even though I haven't deployed anything on that platform for half a decade.
This isn't really relevant to the discussion either, but it (hopefully) might enrage a fanboi or two.
[1] Because: Visual Studio ... and yes I know about VSCode and I have a JetBrains subscription I use for Kotlin. Vim or Emacs? I'd rather change career. Eclipse? Hahahaha ...yeah ...right after I start developing in PHP ... or Visual FoxPro.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:17 GMT MacroRodent
Re: I use Linux
> I write software for Linux and embedded microcontrollers - on Windows
Well, whatever works for you. With me it is the opposite: I write Linux software and am most productive on that platform. It annoys me no end that the company technology choices force me to hop to the Windows side for various tasks (one of those companies that Microsoft now holds firmly by the balls with Office365 and sharepoint- there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth when they start tightening the screws...).
> Vim or Emacs?
That old canard. Those never were the only choices, and especially not now. I use Emacs since I learned it by heart back when my brain was more malleable, and text-only terminals ruled, but someone now coming from Windows will have no problem finding GUI editors with UI essentially indistiguishable from typical Windows editors (or even the very same code, as in the VSCode you mentioned).
Wednesday 20th December 2017 20:14 GMT bombastic bob
Re: I use Linux
" I write Linux software and am most productive on that platform"
ack - at first I didn't know how well 'gedit' (and then 'pluma') did as an editor, so I used VS. But within a short time, I discovered that syntax highlighting in 'gedit' (and then 'pluma') does a FANTASTIC job of making it posible to use those applications to edit things on Linux or BSD natively. I do miss "virtual space" though, which is why I'm [off and on] working on my OWN IDE. [I've got some time off for a month or so, maybe I can work on it some more].
It took a bit of a learning curve, to familiarize myself with autotools, to get the 'Makefile' syntax down pat [both for BSD-style and GNU-style Makefiles], to completely familiarize myself with how the gcc and clang environments work, etc. etc. but it's paid off and NOW very easy to set up an application that builds/runs under Linux, BSD, Cygwin, OSX, and maybe even Win32 if I bother to add the '#if' blocks for "the differences". And if I need GUI stuff, GTK and wxWidgets do pretty well for me.
I keep MSDN anyway because, you never know when you'll need it for something. [getting my IDE and toolkit to build cross-platform for winders would be a good reason]
Wednesday 20th December 2017 21:59 GMT Lysenko
Re: I use Linux
but someone now coming from Windows will have no problem finding GUI editors with UI essentially indistiguishable from typical Windows editors
If you're coming from Java riddled monstrosities like Eclipse and (for a lesser value of monstrous) IntelliJ then I'd agree with you, just like OpenOffice on Windows is just as bad as the Linux version. I'm not discussing cross-platform lowest common denominator-ware though.
In any case, I don't need to "come from" Windows. All my dev work is Linux or bare metal already and I have three Linux dev machines and one Windows (VMs complicate hardware interfaces). I don't need to "see the light". I've been using Linux for years (xcfe-Mint, CentOS and Yocto, mostly) and I know exactly what it is capable of.
Today, for example, I was doing web stuff. Linux has no answer to either PhotoShop or Illustrator, even if we set the coding aside. How do I know that? Because I just spent half the day in Gimp and Inkscape. The issue isn't that I'm unaware of Linux tools or unable to use them. It is that I am aware, can use them, do use them - and judge them to be inferior in most cases (PCB CAD being an exception).
Thursday 21st December 2017 00:58 GMT DrBed
Re: I use Linux
I'm not sure now are you a troll or you just publicly admitted that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Those stupid arguments about "Vim & Emacs vs VS" - well, just came from last century, I don't want to mess with that FUD.
> Today, for example, I was doing web stuff. Linux has no answer to either PhotoShop or Illustrator, even if we set the coding aside. How do I know that? Because I just spent half the day in Gimp and Inkscape.
FYI, I run from Win few years ago. Last thing to keep me was PhotoShop. Then I realized i can use it @Linux under Wine or VirtualBox. But right now, for years, I'm using Gimp for every professional need I have, just with a little help of Krita and Scribus (for CMYK, PDF). It is far more superior then PS (which is a great tool), in many aspects.
And what about vectors? Inkscape has weird interface for newbies, but it is much superior then AI. Just take a look at the best tracer on market. Beside, accomplished with FontForge, you'll get all power you need for making pro fonts. And there's much, much more.
Friendly advice: you said "I was doing web stuff". Just try Gravit Designer, don't mumble about XX century tools. It runs equally great on platform you prefer (I didn't try it @Win, but it can't be so awfull).
Wednesday 20th December 2017 20:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 21:21 GMT Lysenko
Re: @Lysenko - I use Linux
If the only editors you know are Vim and Emacs then I strongly doubt you've ever really used Linux.
What did you have in mind? Geany? GEdit? Atom? I already mentioned I use IntelliJ (also the Pycharm and CLion variants) for some things and consider Eclipse to be a bad joke. VSCode? A pale shadow of the real thing (better than Atom though).
Wednesday 20th December 2017 16:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 13:54 GMT Len Goddard
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:24 GMT Captain Scarlet
Wednesday 20th December 2017 18:38 GMT jaywin
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:45 GMT Richard Plinston
Re: snub the platform by withholding big-name apps like YouTube and Google Maps
> Google blocked the (pretty good) MS supplied YouTube app because it wasn't written in HTML5.
No. Google blocked it because the MS app broached the site's terms of service.
> The Google maps website is pretty unusable on Windows Phone too.
Google makes money from ads. The more users it has, the more money it makes. Google does not make money from Android or Chrome (except that they are Google users). Thus, it is quite happy to have Windows users, Windows Phone users, iOS and MacOS users access its sites so it can send ads to them.
It makes no sense for Google to block _any_ access that users may make, except where the terms of service are broken. It does make sense that Microsoft wants to direct users to its own sites or otherwise prevent Google from making money.
Thursday 21st December 2017 10:27 GMT LDS
Thursday 21st December 2017 23:27 GMT Anonymous Coward
A duck is not a teapot.
Microsoft made an app that used by Google's API services and "YouTube". Google made thier own software, a web browser, to distribute on Microsoft's store.
While one or both of them may have broken rules, they are different things and ownership is in different places. Do you need to reapply your argument in a different way?
Tit for tat or two wrongs don't make it right. But Google breaking terms of service will result in removal.
Personally I think Google should be allowed to make the app, but at the same time Microsoft should be forced to remove the store from existence for being so scam ridden!
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:32 GMT Lars Johansson
Final defeat in the Browser Continuation War
If MS allowed Chrome into the MS Store, it would mark it's final defeat in the Browser Continuation War, as there would no longer be any purpose or use for it's own bundled browsers. Seeing as their primary, neigh only, use is downloading the Chrome installer...
Thursday 21st December 2017 09:12 GMT Psy-Q
Re: Final defeat in the Browser Continuation War
Remember when it was the same with Internet Explorer in the 90s, when people only used that to download Netscape Navigator or later Firefox? And then Microsoft aggressively made IE the default, and soon IE was the dominant browser.
Maybe it can happen again. Although Google is a powerful rival, they seem to shotgun the Chrome installer all over the place and bundle it with thousands of unrelated products. I've seen people using Chrome by default who usually don't even know how to install software, so they must have managed to install *that* somehow.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:36 GMT Palpy
OS wars aside --
-- Windows, Mac, and Android all seem to have trouble with their official app stores. Malware and fakes seem to be common. Apps coded to ask for more permissions than they need to operate add to security risks.
Independently-curated repositories (Debian, Fedora, Slackware, etc) seem to be less bad. The downside is that often these repositories lack the most up-to-date version of a software.
For a long time we had a wild-west array of Win32 software online -- I got burned once downloading paint.net when in a hurry, and got a malware-barnacled version. I suppose the official Windows store is an attempt to mitigate that, but -- like the other official stores -- it appears to come with as many problems as it attempts to solve.
For that reason, I tend to stick with old-style Windows applications, downloaded and Clammed once on a Linux machine, then scanned again on the internet-isolated Windows box before installation there. (As always comes out in these discussions, usage cases vary widely, and it's pointless arguing them; my case happens to not need Windows for anything much, so my lone Win10 machine seldom gets booted. But it's there if I want it.)
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:29 GMT JohnFen
Re: OS wars aside --
"The downside is that often these repositories lack the most up-to-date version of a software."
Which isn't really that much of a downside. For the most part, there's very little value in having the most up-to-date version of anything on any OS. And if you really need it, you can still get it regardless of whether it's int he repository or not.
Thursday 21st December 2017 10:38 GMT LDS
Re: OS wars aside --
The difference is those repositories are not money sources. So you'll not make money from look-alikes or other scams. It may also be more difficult to get into those repositories with unknown applications, and anyway, you'll reach a limited number of users - the "app stores" front ends are designed to lure users into installing more stuff, unlike repos where you usually look for something you already know.
But as seen in other articles, other repositories, like the WordPress one, are being used to deliver nasty code.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 14:40 GMT x 7
Wednesday 20th December 2017 16:11 GMT Tigra 07
Wednesday 20th December 2017 17:03 GMT FordPrefect
Wednesday 20th December 2017 17:16 GMT sabroni
Wednesday 20th December 2017 17:44 GMT nkuk
Thursday 21st December 2017 09:06 GMT Charles 9
Thursday 21st December 2017 17:54 GMT Richard Plinston
> So how come Google is willing to use the Safari engine on an iPhone but isn't willing to use the Edge engine on Windows Phone, given the circumstances are similar?
Because both Safari and Chrome renderers are based on WebKit (which itself is derived from KHTML from the KDE project used by Konqueror and others).
Also "Windows Phone" never ran Edge, Windows 10 Mobile is dead. This is about Windows Store for Windows 10 desktop and Chrome does not need to be in the store because it can be downloaded from Google.
Monday 25th December 2017 15:26 GMT Charles 9
Except you CAN'T download it from Google if you're using Windows 10 S, which is part of the problem. In 10 S, apps can ONLY come from the Store, which means if Chrome can't get on the Store, they're SOL. Which STILL begs the question. How come Google is willing to use Apple's web engine to get on iOS devices but is not willing to use the Edge engine to get on Microsoft's store? Why the different stances in two similar situations?
Monday 25th December 2017 18:33 GMT Richard Plinston
> How come Google is willing to use Apple's web engine to get on iOS devices but is not willing to use the Edge engine to get on Microsoft's store? Why the different stances in two similar situations?
As has been already answered: Chrome and Safari both use WebKit derived browser engines so there was almost zero effort in getting Chrome to use 'Apple's web engine' - it is the _same_ engine (though Google added some enhancements to make WebKit into Blink).
> In 10 S, apps can ONLY come from the Store, which means if Chrome can't get on the Store, they're SOL.
It is the 10 S _users_ that are SOL. They are stuck with Edge only.
Tuesday 26th December 2017 11:31 GMT Anonymous Coward
Windows 10 S might as well be RT v2.0: users won't like not being able to run the software of their choice, regardless of the reasons why. (Which is why last time I heard MS was offering paid updates to the non-S version of Windows 10).
As for different stances that you seem to have chosen/been paid not to understand, Google may be willing to play ball with Apple for the reasons already stated, plus the fact Apple have a large number of valuable users on their popular store. Microsoft's store, on the other hand, is a ghost town full of nothing much and isn't worth the effort even IF Google was willing to tarnish the Chrome name by putting a wrapper and their logo on something as inferior as IE/Edge. It'd be like asking BMW to put their badge on junk yard scrapper cars that barely run and inflicted all kinds of problems on the user. Why would anyone want to tarnish their brand by being associated with Microsoft's junk?
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:19 GMT JohnFen
Wednesday 20th December 2017 19:26 GMT David 132
That Store screenshot is depressing and alarming
If Microsoft's store curators can't (or won't) even weed out obvious shitware like "GoGo Chome" and "Saffari Browser" then what are the odds that they're thoroughly scanning the apps for malware?
I mean, "curated, safe, trustworthy" are pretty much the only reasons a user might download from an app store rather than a website.
Frankly, looking at that screenshot, I'd feel safer downloading my windows software from the Pirate Bay (which has a pretty effective peer review system*)
* so I've heard. Allegedly. I wasn't there, you can't pin anything on me.
Wednesday 20th December 2017 20:52 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 21st December 2017 23:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
The unreported news.
Is that it is not just third party companies who are targets and spam falling through the checks. Paint, MS word etc all also bring up tones of vectors for scams when searched for.
I've not checked a second time after seeing it on a friends pc years ago (win 8.0 iirc) even though I still have a 8.1 install (yes I know the smallest of the install base... but Win 10 would be suicide and why waste time installing anything else... with exception to when support ends or the device dies).
Wednesday 20th December 2017 20:18 GMT Lorribot
Wednesday 20th December 2017 21:21 GMT Anonymous Coward
Wednesday 20th December 2017 23:44 GMT mark l 2
It seems like MS are wanting to copy Apple by restricting the browsers on the Windows 10 store only use their own rendering engine. The difference is that the iOS app store has millions of users actively on it so it was worth Google making a version of Chrome for that platform to ensure they get to hoover up all that lovely data. Where as the 3 users of the Windows 10 store are not worth the effort of coding a specific version of Chrome that is just a skin on top of Edge.
Thursday 21st December 2017 08:25 GMT Slx
Thursday 21st December 2017 08:45 GMT Mikel
IE sucks. Microsoft Edge sucks. Bing sucks. Windows sucks. Objectively, they all suck. The purpose for IE and Edge in Windows is to preinstall an app that you can use to Google and install a decent browser.
You should search in Google with Chrome or Firefox, and it turns out you overwhelmingly do - Even though IE and Edge come preinstalled and Bing set as the default.
You should use Linux or BSD. And more do every day.
Thursday 21st December 2017 16:20 GMT Charles 9
Tuesday 26th December 2017 12:27 GMT conscience
Re: Obligatory
"Call us when it can do mainline games like..."
You mean like Sony's PlayStation 4 uses Orbis OS, a fork a FreeBSD? Besides the kernel, much of the system software is also open source and UNIX-based. Though the console itself is not open source, even the SDK, compilers etc. are open source (LLVM). Much of this is also the case with both MacOS and iOS.
CellOS, the system software from the Playstation 3, also uses FreeBSD and much open source code.The Playstation Vita and more recent Nintendo Switch also follow this path.
When Sega tried to use a cut-down, mobile orientated Windows CE as their Dreamcast OS to try and pull in more developers, it broke them as a mass-manufacturer of hardware and nearly killed the company leaving them to transform into a software-only and IP licensing company to try and survive. Other than that, the only games console that doesn't use open-source UNIX-based software appears to be Microsoft's own XBox, which is hardly a great endorsement from the gaming industry.
Wednesday 27th December 2017 14:33 GMT Charles 9
Re: Obligatory
"When Sega tried to use a cut-down, mobile orientated Windows CE as their Dreamcast OS to try and pull in more developers, it broke them as a mass-manufacturer of hardware and nearly killed the company leaving them to transform into a software-only and IP licensing company to try and survive."
It wasn't the OS that killed the Dreamcast. First, they were previously reeling from the Saturn (which suffered from atypical 3D hardware and a clunky SDK). Second, they used CD-based media which lacks space. Because of the first, and also due to lack of media connections, they couldn't blaze the trail like Sony did and use DVDs. Technically, the Dreamcast actually had a better GPU unit than the PS2 (seen when you compared each platform's DOA2 offering and titles like Skies of Arcadia and Shenmue were really something), but all that space AND the ability to play DVD movies right at the point when they were maturing on the market meant the PS2 featured a killer twofer. Finally, a recession in Japan meant Sega lacked the wiggle room to stay in hardware.
"Other than that, the only games console that doesn't use open-source UNIX-based software appears to be Microsoft's own XBox, which is hardly a great endorsement from the gaming industry."
When it comes to consoles, the OS doesn't really matter. Otherwise, the Xbox would've been long gone, but it's still around thanks to its DirectX support. Meanwhile, like I said, the Taito Type X series is still alive and kicking in arcades and full of headliners...and still using Windows as the underlying OS.
Wednesday 27th December 2017 18:58 GMT conscience
Re: Obligatory
Isn't that a little contradictory, stating "Call us when [Linux, BSD/Unix] can do mainline games like Street Fighter IV or V (and no, the arcade versions don't use Linux, either--IIRC they use the Type X arcade system...which is Windows-based)" and then claiming "When it comes to consoles, the OS doesn't really matter"?
Monday 19th March 2018 02:36 GMT Charles 9
Re: Obligatory
No, it's not contradictory, because they're two different worlds, especially PC gaming where the professional gaming leagues reside. It's still probably the only one where people regularly plunk down real-life money per month to play. Nothing on the consoles comes close. That's the kind of pull you want to really show you're something, and Linux and Mac gaming can't hold a candle to Windows, and if you want to really pull gamers off Windows, find a way to get those professionals to make the jump.
Monday 19th March 2018 04:53 GMT conscience
Re: Obligatory
I don't know why you keep banging on about "professional gamers", but I do think that you're overstating the importance and influence that is associated with it. Professional gaming is a drop in the ocean compared to the non-pro living room amateur gamers who spend considerably more money on a lot more games. I don't think it matters which system pro games use, the pro gaming scene is still a minority thing that has less people with a lot less money spent on it than ordinary arm chair gamers, and the numbers involved in it are tiny. Nor do the masses necessarily follow what the pro gamers use. From what I've read there's barely 150m people who regularly view these events, and a similar number who only occasionally view the tournaments (2017 figures).
I'd say professional gaming is totally irrelevant with regards to showing "you're something", showing you're something is more about either enjoying/doing well at the game (for gamers - pros and non-pros alike), or selling huge numbers of games (for the companies). As for the ordinary gamers, whatever OS they decide to use, be it *nix based stuff like MacOS, iOS, Android, Linux, Playstation 4, Nintendo etc., or Microsoft's Xbox and Windows, there are more than enough games to keep everyone busy for a very long time.
It is well known that operating systems other than Windows are more than capable of playing any game on the market, whether or not they are available on that system is another matter entirely but non-Windows OS game availability is improving all the time. While it is true that Windows is still dominant in the gaming space, largely due to inertia of the past, there are still hundreds of pages of non-Windows games available right now on Steam for both Linux and Mac OS. e.g. Mac OS has 281 pages of games (25 per page = over 7000 games), Linux has 186 pages of games (25 per page = 4650 games). Sure Windows has many more, but how many games can a gamer play in one lifetime?
"Pulling gamers off Windows" isn't really the point. The big game engines have added the ability to export to multiple platforms from Windows, Mac OS, Linux, Android, iOS, Playstation, Xbox, Nintendo Switch, and even web browser, and the number of games available for non-Windows systems is rapidly growing. The truth is that gamers are no longer tied to Windows if they choose not to be, and given that WINE allows me to install the Windows version of Steam alongside the Linux version, therefore allowing me to play all the Windows games that I own right there from my Linux desktop, it's the best of both worlds as far as I am concerned especially as I don't have to put up with Microsoft's shoddy software, shitty attitude, dodgy practices, untrustworthy patches, etc.
As always, each to their own.
Monday 19th March 2018 07:55 GMT Charles 9
Re: Obligatory
Then where's WoW? Overwatch? And no, Mac and Linux are not an option since Blizzard still has an anti-WINE stance that can warrant a ban from Battle.net (needed for both)? WoW isn't on any console, and Overwatch separates by platform, and PC is where all the serious gamers are.
Tuesday 20th March 2018 14:39 GMT conscience
Re: Obligatory
That is not true. Blizzard never had an official problem with using WINE, any bans because of WINE use were actually unintentional and the few bans that did happen were reversed by Blizzard who updated their software/policy so that it didn't happen again in the future. IIRC WINE was mistaken for some soft of unauthorised cheat software, which is what Blizzard do have a problem with.
No official support doesn't mean a game won't run on other platforms. Personally I have enjoyed playing many unsupported 'windows only' games on Linux without any problems. As far as I know (I don't play either game you mention), it is possible to run both of those games on Linux according to various web sources.
Besides which, even if any particular game didn't work, it isn't essential to own or play every single title. Every platform probably has their own exclusive titles, and maybe this matters to 15 year old kids or your beloved pro-gamers if they happen to play one particular title that has problems on other systems, but for the rest of us gamers there's still plenty of choice.
Thursday 21st December 2017 11:06 GMT Bibbit
Thursday 21st December 2017 14:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
Microsoft and its delusions of being the 'third app ecosystem'
Case in point: the Windows 10 taskbar clock. The classic analog clock is replaced with a 'Metro' one, and a former tweak to revert back to the classic analog clock was disabled in the Anniversary Update, much to the chagrin of most users.
(The Windows 10 calculator is horrible too, but oldcalcwin10 takes care of that.)
And if you go to the Microsoft help forums to talk about this, those SatNad fanboys would go 'LOL, go download a clock app on the Microsoft Store!'. Never realizing that many users do not have, and do not want a Microsoft account, and also do not want Cortana, Edge, Bing, Onedrive, Groove Music etc.
We just want a stable (and fairly secure) Windows OS which runs win32 stuff competently, doesn't break legacy stuff, with a coherent and sensible DESKTOP UI for using with a KEYBOARD AND MOUSE.
There's a good reason why Steve Jobs didn't want to merge OSX and iOS.
'Metro' should have died with Sinofsky and Julie Larson-Green in Windows 8. Instead, Windows 10 became a doubling down of that madness, combined with the new CEO SatNad's unhealthy obsession with clouds and spying.
Microsoft is not going to overcome Google and Apple in the mobile app duopoly, forget about it. Microsoft *might* be able to steal some of Amazon's cloud business, but that is of no concern to PC users. Xbox is not going to supplant Steam, Sony and Nintendo in gaming.
Thursday 21st December 2017 14:48 GMT sloshnmosh
Thursday 21st December 2017 15:24 GMT macaroo
Giving up on IE
I have used ms's ie for years. After the latest out of band update it became very slow and unstable running under windows 7. I decided to try Chrome, what a relief and improvement. it is faster and more stable. Enabling the pop up blocker extension has eliminated all the nasty ads and sidebar annoyances from the most popular websites.
Thursday 21st December 2017 20:44 GMT Zakhar
I bet on Google
Redmond should realize the O.S. is now a commodity.
The O.S. should do his job which is handling your hardware and allowing you to run your software, and you should not even care what type of O.S. you run (unless you are a programmer).
On the other hand, users care about being able to run the software they like.
There was a similar "battle" in France between Free (a French ISP) and Google, around Youtube. At some point you couldn't watch comfortably any decent Youtube video. There were investments needed (network, cache, etc...).
Free said that users will change to another platform (Dailymotion?).
Google said that users will change ISP.
Fortunately, they end up with a deal: Google did some infrastructure investment for Free, and in exchange Free gave to its clients an Android-TV box (so that Google gets even more data, like what program you look on TV and when!).
We have the same battle here: Redmond says users will use other services than Google (GMail, Youtube, GMaps, etc...) and Google bet they will rather use another O.S. (Android/Chromebook...) to have the service.
My bet is that the service will win!
Thursday 21st December 2017 21:01 GMT Bob Dole (tm)
At the end of the day all I want is for MickeySoft to fix Outlook so that it can start searching my gmail folders again. After they broke it a few months ago I keep finding myself going straight to gmail to search for old emails. At some point I won't even bother starting Outlook.


text:
I'm no PR expert, certainly not when it comes to PR in Silicon Valley. I'm learning through, thanks in part to this article from the NY Times. So if you're also confused, I've gone ahead and made up a little flowchart that breaks down the process.
What Others are Saying:

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Canada is high on real estate. Its home price index rose 9.3% y/y in Q4 2017 as the number of sales rose 4% y/y. Even higher is Canada's optimism that its housing market will continue to appreciate into and throughout 2018. Some 43% predict that appreciation.
Bloomberg's Nanos Confidence Index for Canada is the highest its been since 2009. A booming jobs market, a strong housing market and the end of year bump in commodities prices buoy that consumer confidence. Across all regions of Canada, people see gains in job security and housing outlook.
More reasons for optimism…
– Canada's jobless rate in November fell to 5.9%, the first time that rate has fallen below 6% since 2008 and one of the lowest jobless rate readings in the past 4 decades
– Average hourly earnings, stagnant in 2017, are showing "up" signs.
– The housing market is resilient in all regions.
– Canadian dollar is stronger and rising stock market prices are boosting purchasing power.
– Oil prices are beginning to rise.
– Prairie provinces indicate highest levels of confidence in the housing market since 2014.
The two big questions relating to Canada's housing market are…will the Canadian economy decelerate from 2017's elevated levels due to the Bank of Canada's strategy to raise interest rates? And will household spending continue to carry Canada's economy as it has since the collapse of oil prices some years ago?
Another big question relating to Canada's housing market is…why are there still no robotics, drones, 3D printing and artificial intelligence apps/amenities available to real estate professionals and consumers in Canada?
Rather than buyers in the past wanting exclusivity, real estate consumers today everywhere want inclusivity. With seemingly endless tools and apps available in the US for real estate players, Canada currently has these tech options to make the buying process more accessible and accountable:
– Zoocase – online neighborhood search for online brokerage platforms
– Casaloca – users can search listings, book viewings, pay rent and enter buy/sell markets
– ReInvent Realty – merges big data with local listings
– Opus 44 – data intelligence bots for agents
-Homies – automates property management
– Red Pin – listing database
– FeeDuck – asks sellers for details and then agents bid for listing over 24 hours
True Bidz – same as above for Toronto
No doubt there will be more tech available for Canadian real estate professionals and consumers sooner rather than later (and likely there are already more choices right now than those listed above.) Either way, more real estate tech for the Canadian housing market will be much appreciated by all.


text:
Enter a valid city, state or zip code
Enter a valid city and state or postal code
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Boys' and girls' Soft Soles -- with an elastic ankle, these shoes are easy-on and easy-off but stay on when they should. Made to last and to be easy on little ones' feet, they have soft suede soles that are both flexible and slip-resistant. They are available as athletic shoes, Mary Janes, casual shoes, sandals, boots, moccasins and slippers.
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text:
This feature originally appeared in the Stratford Herald on 4th July
ANYONE who watched England take on the United States on Tuesday night at the FIFA Women's World Cup would agree with manager Phil Neville's post-match declaration that the team 'touched the souls of the nation'.
Even though they lost 2-1, the Lionesses were true to their name, playing with great prowess and proud hearts. Goalkeeper Carly Telford said the team set out to inspire: "I hope there are a lot of young girls and boys picking up an England shirt. That's an important message for us."
While it's a great sentiment, a majority of schools still only offer football to boys. In the UK only 43 per cent of schoolgirls are offered the chance to play team sports such as football, cricket and rugby, according to new research by Girlguiding. These statistics are mirrored in the Herald area with girls not routinely being offered football at their secondary schools.
It's a subject that is particularly close to this reporter's heart. My teenage daughter, Mery Sutherland, is in Year 8 at Chipping Campden, one of the schools that doesn't offer football to its female students.
With four friends she gathered 400 signatures from their fellow Year 8 pupils petitioning the school to give them the same sporting opportunities.
She said: "Boys and girls shouldn't be treated differently. Men's sport always seems to overrule women's. At the school we are pushed more towards dance, gymnastics and netball – this is while the boys are off playing rugby, cricket and football. It affects attitudes about what is 'appropriate' for girls – and that's just so old fashioned."
But she was quick to praise the efforts of the PE staff, who she said worked many unpaid hours offering extracurricular opportunities.
Head teacher John Sanderson responded at length to the Herald, outlining issues with new curriculum demands from the Department of Education and resources that Campden and many other secondaries face: "In response to the significant changes in GCSE PE, particularly the required sports, the PE Department have reduced the number of sporting activities to ensure that our pupils are able to access the top practical grades when they reach Year 11."
Mr Sanderson explained that the school has offered football to girls in the past, but that it had been dropped through a lack of resources, and a lack of enthusiasm from students.
However, he added: "The PE department recognise that attitudes should start to change given the success of the Lionesses at the World Cup and so this will be reviewed periodically. Indeed, our new head of PE, Mr Cole, has already indicated that the staffing for Year 9 PE next year may lend itself to incorporating the delivery of some girls' football and rugby alongside other different opportunities."
The Herald asked all the schools in the area about their PE offering of team sports, perhaps unsurprisingly the ones that responded were proud of their egalitarian approach. Stratford Girls' Grammar, Kineton High School and Alcester Grammar offer cricket, rugby and football to girls. Alcester Academy has just introduced football for girls in the last year and it is something it is keen to develop. James Powell, head of PE told the Herald: "Football is new to many of the girls so it is not something that comes necessarily naturally to them, and some aren't very enthusiastic, but we are keen to give them exposure and get them interested in football especially given the Lionesses' World Cup success."
While some schools have been slow to offer chances, progress is being made in women's and girls' grassroots football, cricket and rugby, with many local clubs prospering and recruiting ahead of the next season.
Kirstin Wright has two daughters, eight and 11, who play for Stratford Town Colts. She told us: "Girls' football is still not available in many schools. Most girls have to play in boys' teams and are heavily outnumbered. Things are slowly starting to change, but there's still a long way to go. Both my girls love it."
Final word goes to Linda Wright, from Luddington, who commented on a Herald Facebook post: "Outside school, clubs are great, but the incentive has to start in school if it is to be inclusive. The Government keeps banging on about cutting obesity… Offering young children/ladies the chance to play the sport they see our national sides playing, at such a high level, is crucial in tacking this along with body image issues etc."


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Additivity — a dangerous assumption21 Jan, 2016 at 20:28 | Posted in Economics | 1 Comment
The unpopularity of the principle of organic unities shows very clearly how great is the danger of the assumption of unproved additive formulas. The fallacy, of which ignorance of organic unity is a particular instance, may perhaps be mathematically represented thus: suppose f(x) is the goodness of x and f(y) is the goodness of y. It is then assumed that the goodness of x and y together is f(x) + f(y) when it is clearly f(x + y) and only in special cases will it be true that f(x + y) = f(x) + f(y). It is plain that it is never legitimate to assume this property in the case of any given function without proof.
J. M. Keynes "Ethics in Relation to Conduct" (1903)
Since econometrics doesn't content itself with only making optimal predictions, but also aspires to explain things in terms of causes and effects, econometricians need loads of assumptions — most important of these are additivity and linearity. Important, simply because if they are not true, your model is invalid and descriptively incorrect. It's like calling your house a bicycle. No matter how you try, it won't move you an inch. When the model is wrong — well, then it's wrong.
1 Comment
Sure. But this does invite the (inevitable) "We already have non-linear and non-additive models" line. "And … interaction terms!"
I propose something more radical. How about?:
"Algorithmic Composition — An Arbitrary Assumption"
Why on earth should causes in the social world necessarily combine according to some mathematical function?
Comment by KM— 24 Jan, 2016 #
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by Martha Michael
Beauty is only fur-deep, but your animal's health and wellness has a lasting effect.
When it comes to grooming your pets, there are household tools for brushing their coats and shampoos that are specific to dogs or cats. But do-it-yourself washing and preening should be reserved for time between appointments by professional groomers.
"Every breed is different, but most of your typical household pets need to be groomed every 6-8 weeks," says Chris Anderson of Chris' K-9 Clippery in Canyon Country. "Cats need grooming every 3-6 months, especially if they're long-haired cats. They need their nails, ears, and some cats require their coats to be shaved, while some don't – it depends on whether or not they maintain it themselves."
The purpose of grooming animals isn't just to improve their looks, says Veronica Ochoa of On The S'paw, a new grooming salon on Soledad Canyon Road in Canyon Country.
"I would advise owners to keep their dogs and cats clean, not only for the physical appearance, but for their health as well," Ochoa says. "When owners don't keep their pets maintained, it could hide some health issues such as dry skin and other skin problems. When they are groomed, both the groomer and the owner can find this and be aware of the condition the pet is in."
An article on PetMD suggests readying your dog for grooming before its first appointment, while still a puppy, particularly in the case of long-haired dogs, as their appointments tend to be longer and more intense than dogs with short, clipped fur styles. They can begin routine grooming as early as 3 weeks old. It increases the chance of the experience being incident-free.
Brushing is recommended for long-haired and short-haired breeds, as they benefit from the removal of dirt, dandruff and dead hair, plus it brings out their natural oils. It's also a good time for health checks, such as inspecting the skin for the presence of fleas, ticks or afflictions stemming from allergies, and for trimming nails, as well as examining teeth, ears and the eyes.
"Grooming your pets on a regular basis not only keeps your pet looking their best but also can alert you to any new physical changes you might not have previously been aware of," says Corrin Bailey from Groomingdales in Acton. "When a pet comes in on a regular basis, the groomer gets real familiar with your pet's skin and coat."
Even serious issues are often detected by groomers. "Sometimes the groomer is the first to notice a new lump growing in an unusual place or a rash that has broken out, or changes in the coat, like brittleness or not growing back properly," Bailey adds.
Mobile groomer Fernando Martinez concurs. "You'll see if they have skin issues or ear infections," he says. "Most of the time, when you don't groom your dog they'll have a lot of liquid inside of their glands, and that will cause a lot of problems. Grooming is the best way to keep your dog in good shape and healthy."
Anderson said it's the groomer's responsibility to check all the orifices of the animal. "If there are any skin issues, we'd be the first to tell you," she says.
But the animal isn't the only one affected by the threat of allergies. "Our dogs collect a lot of dust and pollen every time they are out running or out for a walk," Bailey explains. "Remember, they are a lot lower to the ground than us and put their noses in everything. Then, guess where those little noses end up – in our faces. So, in conclusion, regular grooming can alert you to health issues, keep allergens at bay, and make your pets look and feel fabulous."


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Xbox One Essentials: the must own accessories, gifts and merch for Xbox owners
With the official unveiling of Microsoft's Project Scorpio due any minute now (or having already happened, depending on when you read this), there's never been a better time to be an Xbox fan. Whether you're already an Xbox One owner or you're holding out to pick up Microsoft's brand new 4K machine, here are the must-own accessories and gifts you need.
Starting with the essential bits of hardware first, we've taken a look at the absolute must-own accessories for Xbox One owners. This includes everything from the extra fancy Xbox Elite controller all the way to the best arcade fighting sticks around. These are the absolute best Xbox One accessories that any Xbox One owner should have.
No doubt the most recognisable figure in the annals of Xbox One exclusive franchises is Master Chief and the Halo series in general. Beginning its existence alongside the original Xbox over a decade and a half ago, we've seen the Chief battle countless enemies and come out on top. At least, so far. We've gathered up our top picks for the best Halo gifts – t-shirts, hoodies, action figures and even Halo Monopoly – in one handy little post.
Microsoft's other massive franchise is, of course, Gears of War. This series began early on in the Xbox 360's life and has gone on to spawn four sequels, several novel adaptations, a whole heap of action figures, clothes and even its own Xbox One Elite controller variant. If you'd like to take a look at some of our favourite bits of Gears of War merchandise, accessories and merch, head on over to the link below and all shall be revealed.


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365 Project : 3rd March – 9th March
I've decided to start updating these posts on Mondays instead of Sundays. It makes a lot more sense as if i'm busy on Sunday (like I was yesterday) I don't get a chance to edit and upload the photo from that day. But I shall still be posting photo's from the first monday to the sunday. Hopefully this will make it easier to stay up to date with this project.
On the 3rd I made some delicious brownies! I really must do a recipe for these as they're divine!
The 4th was shrove tuesday and of course meant that we ate lots and lots of pancakes! Yum!
On the 5th I met up with my sister for the first time in ages. We had some burritos and then went out for a couple of cocktails.
On the 6th we went skating late at night. I took some awesome creepy photo's with long exposures. You can see more of these here.
On the 7th I took a few pictures of a new item, the gorgeous blue tie in the middle, and then spent the rest of the day editing.
The 8th saw me relaxing at home, still doing lots of computer work but taking breaks staring out to the sunshine.
Yesterday I went to Cantelowes Skatepark in Camden with Ash and some friends. I didn't skate (I don't have a suitable pool deck) but a good friend from Newtons Shred taught Ash to drop in and I managed to take some great pictures which I will be sharing with you all soon. We finished the day with cider and stew. Perfect!
Back at work next week and so not as much time to frolic, but I will still be making sure I take lots of photographs!
Claire x
Messing with Manual
I've decided that it's finally time to figure out how to use my camera on manual settings so a few days ago I joined Ash and some of our friends and tried to take pictures of them skating.
I spent most of the session just trying to figure out how to use the camera (I've lost the manual and so had no idea what all the buttons actually did) but eventually I managed to get a few good photographs. A lot of the photo's came out blurred, out of focus or just too dark to begin with, but i'm sure with a bit of practice I can be taking even better photographs than I was before!
Unfortunately the weather was a bit dreary which meant that it was hard to get my ISO low enough for the fast shutter speed I needed and I had to crack out my flash quite early on. But this was also a good learning experience as I haven't used my flash much either!
If there's any photographers out there that could give me some good feedback or tips for shooting manual than please don't hesitate to comment! I'd very much appreciate it 🙂
There are more on my facebook page here
But for now I'll leave you with my favourite photo from the night, it might be a little over exposed due to the harsh flash, but I like it 🙂


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For the third and final entry recognising the royal honours received by local residents in the Queen's Birthday Honours List, I am delighted to see that Elizabeth Prichard QSO has been made a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit. Mrs Prichard has served in numerous roles to aid in the advancement of women. She held a key leadership role in the United Nations NGO 10 and 15 year reviews of the Beijing Declaration and Beijing Platform for Action. She has also served two terms as President of Pacific Women's Watch New Zealand and six years as Vice President of the International Council of Women. In 2010, the Bridge-Builders Trust appointed Mrs Prichard as a Patron and she was President of Bridge-Builders International from 2011 to 2014. Congratulations to her for the recognition she has received and to all the Tamaki residents recently honoured.
NASA's SOFIA Mission
I had the great privilege of flying on one of NASA's aircraft a few days ago. Known as SOFIA, the Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy, it is a heavily modified Boeing 747 that carries an infrared telescope on board. The project generally flies in the Northern Hemisphere, out of California. However, for the past several years, Christchurch has hosted missions over the winter months. This allows scientists to study the southern skies.
The mission I traveled on lasted 10 hours and tracked a variety of objects across the night sky, including the Centaurus A galaxy and the Keyhole Nebula. The plane is very much a working laboratory and the interior is certainly not luxurious. As the plane has had most of its insulation removed it is rather cold and very loud. Approximately 20 people fly four times a week.
It was a thrill to see the information being gathered first hand, but most of the data will require months of analysis. Several significant scientific discoveries have already been made as a result of New Zealand hosting SOFIA and our entire country can be proud to have contributed.
End of Life Choice Bill
You have, no doubt, seen that David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill passed its second reading by 70 votes to 50. Most of you will know my opposition to the bill and will therefore understand that while I was expecting this result it still saddens me. However, the bill still needs to go through a third reading and it is by no means a fait accompli; only five MPs need to change their mind and it can be voted down.
To understand my thinking around euthanasia, assisted suicide, and this bill, you can watch this video put together by the team at pyjama. While recorded before the first reading, it is a good piece for teasing out the various arguments, including the duty of MPs to create laws that protect everyone, particularly the most vulnerable.
You may also wish to view this video, in which I, and two of my colleagues, discussed the problems with the bill prior to its second reading.
State Housing Wait List Grows
I'm concerned by state housing waiting list which is growing ever longer under this government. It has doubled under Labour to its highest point in nearly a decade. What particularly bothers me is that Labour said they had all the answers and numerous plans to put into action. They had bold designs and promised the New Zealand public rapid solutions at the last election. But, adequate state housing is quickly becoming yet another item on their growing list of broken promises. The sad reality is that not only are Labour's policies not helping the situation, they're exacerbating it. You can read the press release I sent out on the issue here.
Electric Car Taxes
If it moves, tax it! The Labour government, presumably at the behest of their Green Party colleagues, has introduced another new tax. (I'm quite certain the Prime Minister promised no new taxes in her first term, but with all the taxes they've added already, I'm not surprised by yet another.) This policy will see less fuel-efficient cars pay a levy and more fuel-efficient cars receive a rebate. They have promised it is going to be a revenue neutral policy, but given all of the promises they've broken so far, I don't think anyone should hold their breath.
One of the problems with attempting to change behaviour through tax is that it creates false market conditions. The strategy has been employed for centuries by governments around the world. Like import levies in general, the goal is to favour one group at the expense of another for political purposes. Whereas free trade has fostered growth, jobs, development, and greater efficiencies around the world, taxing something for political reasons has the opposite effect. In an age where free trade is under attack and trade wars are creating great uncertainty, I don't think this sort of tinkering is very helpful. New Zealand tried a command economy in the middle of the 20th century. I'm not surprised that Labour and the Greens are trying to drag us back there, but after it was proven to be such a catastrophic failure, why would anyone want to go back?
Around Tamaki
Thanks to all who turned up on a cold wet evening in Tamaki to discuss the Budget (and the myriad of issues therein). It was a pleasure to host my colleague Alastair Scott MP as our guest speaker. As National's Associate Finance Spokesperson, he had a lot of insights to share and was well placed to answer the wide range of questions. Thanks again to everyone who came along.
You may have read Simon Wilson's piece on AT's proposed changes to St Heliers. He is very keen to turn our Village into a cycling and walking mecca. I took the chance to note, in response to him, that that locals should have a say on how their community looks and operates, not zealots like him who pretend to be reporters. If you would like to express your views on how Auckland Council is performing and, importantly, let them know how you would prefer things to operate, you can do so on this new Facebook page named 'Rate Your Council'.
Finally, The team at the Eastern Bays Songbird Project are providing free traps once again, between 10am and 2pm on Sunday 27 July @ the St Heliers Market Day. Look out for them and get yourself a trap to join me and many others in returning more birds to our area.
Local Body elections
As you may know, local body elections will be taking place soon – voting for a Mayor, Councillors, and Local Boards. If you have a fence or property on which you wouldn't mind a hoarding, let me know, as the C&R team would very much welcome your support. Drop me a line and I can put you in touch with the right people (all puns intended!).
What I've been reading
I enjoyed this excellent article by Juliet Moses on the glaring deficiencies of both identity politics and intersectionality. How such weak-minded concepts continue to gain traction in our civic discourse remains a mystery to me.
I can also recommend this very good and thoughtful op-ed from the Maxim Institute on why we should be careful around rushing to referenda on difficult political issues. And finally, following on from that subject, I've also been reading with some concern on developments in areas where cannabis has been legalised. Here is one such article in Stuff.co.nz. It is disturbing that the Green Party in New Zealand seems to be hell-bent on introducing similar harmful legislation to this country.


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To replace your cables often... even if they feel good. Here is my rear derailleur cable which was planning to convert my roadie to a single speed when I least expected it!
Brake cables are next as they are a little crustified and are not as smooth as I'd like them when I'm cm's away from other wheels at high speeds.
Aplogies to Jaywoo.... next time I'll post this reminder a few weeks before you snap cables out on the road! :)


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A New Canaan holiday tradition will live on in new hands for its 100th year.
The Christmas Eve Carol Sing on God's Acre is being taken over by a group of residents under the care of the New Canaan Chamber of Commerce.
Previously, through the New Canaan Advertiser, the Hersam Family collected donations for the Christmas Tree Fund. Small donations were encouraged so that many could take part in the tradition started by John. E. Hersam, who started the New Canaan Advertiser in 1908.
Money is needed to light the tree on God's Acre, and to set up and dismantle the bandstand.
With the transition of the Advertiser from the 110-year ownership of the Hersam family to Hearst Connecticut Media, Chamber of Commerce Executive Director Tucker Murphy said some wondered what the future held for the Christmas Eve gathering.
"When Don [Hersam] called me to say, 'What are we going to do about this year?'" Murphy said it was easy to say, "We got it."
Murphy, Steve Karl, Leo Karl, Scott Gress, Steve Benko and Tom Stadler, all in their roles as residents of New Canaan, formed a committee to keep the century-old tradition alive.
"We have met twice," Murphy said. "We asked Don [Hersam] for all the info he has. We are in good shape."
Donations payable to the God's Acre Caroling Foundation should be sent to the foundation, ℅ Tucker Murphy at the New Canaan Chamber of Commerce, 91 Elm St., New Canaan 06840.
An online portal may be set up for Internet donations.
"Like everything, I think people think that things just happen," Murphy said. "But they don't . There are a lot of people who have to be pulling some levers behind the scenes."
For the past 100 years, it has been the Hersams, the Karls and "in the dark of night," said Benko.
As the committee discussed arranging for the Town Band, police, the Fire Department, the Community Emergency Response Team, Murphy said Benko repeatedly said, "I do that."
The Advertiser will again publish the lyrics to the carols in an ad purchased by Karl Chevrolet, make them available Christmas Eve at the Congregational Church and publish them online.
The foundation plans to establish a 501c3 nonprofit to make the Christmas Eve Carol Sing a sustainable tradition, Murphy said.
This year, however, there is a bit of reflection on the event's history.
"What we really want to do is make sure this is a nod to Don and the family for doing this," Murphy said.
"We are so mindful of and grateful for all the years the Hersams have brought this wonderful tradition to our town," Murphy said. "It's one of the most important nights in all of New Canaan and it wouldn't be possible if the Hersams hadn't been there."
Caption: Christmas caroling on God's Acre in New Canaan on Christmas Eve, Tuesday, Dec. 24, 2013. (Abby Hersam photo)


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Asia's leading source of real estate investment news, Mingtiandi.com, is growing and if you have a background in marketing for media companies, then this could be a chance to join our award-winning team.
We are currently seeking a marketing executive to help promote Mingtiandi's online promotional products, events and subscriptions to real estate executives and investors in the region.
On the web, successful candidates will need to be able to qualify leads from the company's existing web and social platforms, generate proposals for potential customers and ensure fulfillment of client requirements.
The prospective team member can also expect to play a key role in organising real world events for senior real estate professionals in Asia.
- Generating and qualifying new leads through email campaigns and customer relationship management
- Creating and implementing new marketing campaigns to support sales via online media
- Promoting company events via web, email and social media platforms
- Sourcing speakers for company events and arranging event logistics
- Drafting and submitting proposals for senior executives at Fortune 500 companies
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- At least three years of B2B marketing experience is required, including a demonstrable record of creating successful online campaigns
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