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Ford Expedition Lease Questions
Hi suvmom1. You never mentioned the selling price of the Expedition that you are interested in leasing. This is an important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing the price of the truck that you want to lease you don't know how good a price you are getting it for. The second reason is that one needs the selling price of a vehicle that they want to lease is that it is necessary to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to give you my opinion of this deal if you let me know what its selling price is.
Prices Paid Forum0
ram87 Posts: 1Thanks for all this great info. I'm a newbie to leasing and wish to lease an 07 Expedition Limited. I understand about negotiating the price of the vehicle just like purchasing. But what would be considered good factors for my area? I live in san jose ca and received a quote of $43,585(invoice price) for a purchase. I would like to lease this vehicle plus install options like bluetooth. Do the extra options get rolled into the lease? I'm looking at a 36 month 15k miles per year deal. Can I apply the $2000 cash back towards my upfront costs? Thanks a bunch0
chrod Posts: 3Please help I need to know the Residual rates on a 2007 Expedition for a 36 month lease and a 48 month lease. I live in California and want to buy this weekend. I also show a 2.0% lease rate for the 36 and a 4.2% for a 48 are these correct?
Thanks for all your help!!!0
You're welcome, ram87. Since you are new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.
Ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2007 Expedition Limited 2WD with 15,000 miles per year are 2.0% and 44%, respectively. You should be able to fully residualize any factory-installed options and roll them into your lease payment. Dealer invoice is an excellent selling price for this truck, if you are able to have the $2,000 lease cash that is available on it subtracted from that before calculating your lease payment.
Prices Paid Forum0
Hi chrod. Here's the information that you are looking for. This truck's lease program varies by trim level, so for now I will assume that you are interested in the 2007 Expedition XLT 2WD. Let me know if you want a different version. Ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of an '07 Expedition XLT 2WD with 15,000 miles per year are 2.0% and 44%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 48 month lease are 4.25% and 36%. When negotiating your lease on this truck, make sure to take advantage of the $2,000 lease cash that is available on it.
Prices Paid Forum0
curte Posts: 4I'm looking for the base lease rate and residual for 2007 Expedition XLT 2WD with leather, comfort, appearance, convenience packages and moonroof, manual 3rd row seat, premium radio and SAT radio (located in South Carolina)...I see above lots of info on a 36 month lease with 15,000...I'm interested in 24 month lease with 12,000 and 15,000 and also a 36 month lease with 12,000. MSRP is $36,850 - the dealer has offered an "invoice" price of $34,489 with $2,000 lease cash off of that and $4,000 off for my trade of a 99 Jeep GrCherokee0
fletch58 Posts: 19I qualify for the X program. I got good number but want to gamble that Ford will up the rebate from 2K to 3K soon. I have a M35 lease that I can extend month to month so I have no urgency to pull the trigger until the numbers get where I want. Car Man or anyone else, if you follow Ford closely, I live in central Florida and within 50 miles along there msut be 250 of them. Any bets on what the rebate will do next month or the month after ?0
sakpeg100 Posts: 1Hi, i am new to the boards but love all the information. I have gotten a quote on a EB explorer 2007, 39 months, 15,000 miles per year, no money down, first months payment upon pickup. Dealer said everything but navigation package. He said we are looking at 508.00 per month. Is this a good deal? Oh, we are in allentown, PA.
Here's the information that you are looking for, curte. Ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2007 Expedition XLT 2WD with 15,000 miles per year are 1.0% and 51%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 36 month lease are 2.5% and 44%, respectively. If you were to lease this truck with 12,000 miles per year, its residual values would be 2% higher. Dealer invoice minus all of the available cash incentives is a good price for a lease of this vehicle.
Prices Paid Forum0
Hey fletch58. It looks like your gamble paid off. Right after you posted this Ford introduced $2,007 bonus cash on the 2007 Expedition. I believe that this incentive is available on top of the $2,000 lease cash that Ford is already providing on it.
Prices Paid Forum0
Welcome Scott. You never mentioned the selling price or MSRP of the Expedition that you are interested in leasing. These are important numbers for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this truck's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to give you my opinion of this deal if you let me know what these numbers are.
Prices Paid Forum0
mavericknole Posts: 1Car Man,
I am trying to figure out what a lease package would be with the numbers listed below I was thinking that since it is a 2007 that the selling price should be around $34,500 to $35,000 after rebate. Please let me know you thoughts and what the average lease price would be on the vehicle listed below. Base the lease package on 3 year / 36,000 miles...
Thank you Any help would be greatly appreciated
2007 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer 2WD
Rebate ($2007)
Total $36,131.000
philly70 Posts: 6Shopping comparable full-size SUVs. Expedition Ltd w/DVD,Navi,Moonroof, Trailer package. MSRP $46,315. $1500 cap cost red., 10500 miles, 36 months - lowest dealer quote $583.48 including tax. Seems like a decent deal, if not out-of-line according to Edmunds TMV and lease calc. Anyone know dealer inputs (money factor/depreciation)?0
The residual for a 36 month, 10,500 mile per year lease is 48% for a 4WD model and 47% for a RWD. Interest rate for 36 month lease is 2.5%. All this is per my dealer. Hope this helps.0
hello Car Man
thanks for all the info
the car will be leased from either a
NE Pa. NJ, NY or Ct. dealer
2008 Expedition Limited EL 4x4
24 month
no money down
1,029 a month out the door (including tax and title etc)
he didn't mention a security deposit
he told me the Value would be 52% from 56% due to losing 1% for every 1,500 miles over 15,000
vs a 2007 at 52% - 4% due to mileage and a 2,000 rebate
the value is 52% of what ever I pay for it in this case it is rated on $50,275?
Money factor was 1% if I divide this 1% by 2400 I get 0.0000041666666667 is this the correct number to use?
Does the dealer get a holdback for a customer ordered car?
This dealer is also a Certified Blue dealer.
He also told me that he was sure that he will give the best price around. I don't know how much if he did take off, since I just wanted to get an idea of lease payments and I didn't even start neg. price.
So just wondering if I'm using the numbers correctly
52% of what and finding the money factor so I can plug those numbers in and do it myself
Bronx NY0
Carman: I saw in an early post (FLETCH58) that you had said that the Ford $2007 rebate cash may also be able to be added to the $2000 lease cashback, is this true? I was about to sign on the dotted line for a 2007 Tahoe, but GM does offer the $2000 rebate they advertise to people who lease the Tahoe. Needless to say not very happy about this, and it will be a dealbreaker. Please let me know if the offers can be combined. Thank you0
Sorry what I meant to say was that GM does NOT offer the $2000 rebate they advertise to people who lease the Tahoe.0
I don't think the $2007 can be added to the $2000 lease cash on the Ford. The Ford web site shows the $2000 for leases and the $2007 for purchases.0
Hi mavericknole. Let's work up a lease payment on the truck that you are interested in and see what we come up with. I will use a selling price of $500 over invoice minus the $2,000 lease cash that is currently available on it. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2007 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer 2WD that has an MSRP of $40,055 and a selling price of $36,638 through Ford Credit right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $542.
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum0
You're very welcome, Anthony. Wow, $1,000 per month is way too much money to pay to lease any Ford product. Heck, you can lease a BMW 7-Series for less than that. I personally would pass on this deal.
I was just looking at '08 Expedition EL pricing and I was having a hard time finding one that would have an MSRP of $50,000. How is this truck equipped? Regardless of how it is equipped you need to find out what this truck's selling price is. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. Without knowing what this truck's selling price is, it is difficult to tell how good a deal you are getting on it.
Ford Credit's current base lease rate for a 24 month lease of a 2008 Ford Expedition EL Eddie Bauer AWD is only 1.0%. As you can see, Ford Credit publishes lease rates instead of money factors for the vehicles that it leases. you can convert its published lease rates into approximate money factor equivalents by dividing them by 2400.
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum0
goodyedmunds Posts: 1Car Man - long time reader, first time poster - I could use some specific help now, beyond all of the general help I've had in the past
I've been back in forth on the '08 Tahoe and the '08 Expedition. The Expedition proposal that I am closest to right now is as such:
The dealer's MSRP quote on the '08 Limited built out the way I want matches the Edmunds built out MSRP of $47,910. The dealer tells me that he is selling at invoice to me, which he quotes as $44,200. Even if I add in the $300 for the chrome grill they are putting into the Limited (you can't order it as an option from the factory and we don't like the body color grill) he is still a little north of the Edmunds invoice quote. So be it for now:
Can you offer an opinion on the whole package:
MSRP $47,910 (or $48,210 if you want to add the grill here)
Invoice quote of $44,200
12m miles/$634 a month/and a $2,500 check for whatever else (inceptions, cap cost, I don't think I care how they use it do I)
The uncomfortable part is that he is telling me that the program can change by the time the truck gets delivered - say mid to late October. How does anyone sign on for that? I think I know my payments but then they change when I actually get it? He says the current program is a $500 rebate, 3.25%, and a 48% residual.
I'll take anyone's advice - thumbs up or down? Many thanks.
For what it's worth this is being done in Central/Northern New Jersey.0
Hello Car Man
To answer your questions in addition to every number the dealer gave me that is figured in the prices below. So here we go, thanks again
2008 Ford Expedition 4x4 EL (600A order code)
everything below is in the purchase price of $46,673.08 from the dealer's
Skid Plate
Daytime running lights
Power moonroof
rubber floor mats
rearview camera
trailer tow
chrome rack with cross bars
power lift gate
rear seat entertainment
8 U.S. Gal gas charge $24.08
FDAF assessment $578
Dest and Deliver $900
all for $46,173.08 plus $500 his commission = 46,673.08
and an additional 25 gallons of gas (full tank on delivery is in this price)
now he gave me a copy of the "Deal Worksheet" with the following numbers from his
Lease Work sheet from Ford's dealer website
Lease Source - RCL
Price -$46,740.00 ($66.92 more then his quote price)
trade in amt - $0.00
trade in payoff - $0.00
cash down - $0.00 (no check mark in the box next to this number)
Rebates -$500.00 (no check mark in the box next to this number)
Lease Rate - 1
Term -24
payment per yr - 12
next payment due
other - $0.00
Insurance -none
credti life -none 0.00 (a check mark in check box)
credit A/H -none 0.00 (a check mark in check box)
ext. srv -none 395.00 (Red Carpet Lease wear care) (check mark in check box)
ext. srv plan code- blank
garage location
Mileage Allowed -15,000 (.20 mile over 30,000 at the end of 24 months)
mileage purchase - 0
mileage cost -$0.15
residual % 56 - $28,235.20
sales tax% 8.375 - $1,844.58 (check mark in check box)
property tax - 0.00 (no check mark in box)
luxyrt tax - 0.00 (no check mark in box)
office fees - $57.50 (no check box available)
title/reg - $45.00 (check mark in check box)
license/lien - 0.00
soft adds - 0.00
ACQ Fee - $595.00 (what is this) (check mark in check box)
security deposit - $0.00
amount due at signing ------- monthly payment
$1,40.09 ------- $903.09
I would also get any additional rebates at the time the car
was delivered if anything better was in affect at the time of delivery.
which he was told by his rep that these cars are "FREE WHEELING", built in 4 weeks and up to 2 weeks to deliver. Not unless if ordering the power running boards the built time could be doubled.
Also if he was to order this car he would need a $500 deposit
that would be applied to the $1,403.09 so all I need at pick up is $903.09
he also told me if I order this in silver and were to change my mind he would give the $500 deposit back, if I ordered any other color I would lose the deposit. so happens I like the silver car anyway.
So is this a deal worth going for?
Is this dealership giving me more info that usual?
Is Ford strict when they evaluate the car at the end of the lease? The dealer said Ford wants you back so they are somewhat lenient. He wasn't pushing the Red lease care package. But Ieft it in for now.
(I am planning on buying car seat covers with 4 car seats in the car)
I noticed he used the Residual valvue against the MSRP price is the correct?
Which number did he get the tax of $1,844.58 from?
ACQ Fee do you know what that is for?
Also I found strange is that he told me in writing .20 cents per mile over 30K at the end of 24 months and another dealer told me
.25 cents a mile over $30,000 at the end of the 24 months. Who is correct?
This is every piece of info that I have from the dealer, he gave me all print outs off the computer from Ford's dealership website.
Hope I gave you all the info you need to determine if the $903 is good or not?
Is this dealer on the level with everything he supplied?
what would the payment be if I was to put 1,000 or 2,000 down?
Thanks again
bx, ny0
rob052067 Posts: 4CarMan,
Aside from the residual differences between 2WD and 4WD models, does FMC have any other adjustments to the residual percentage based on vehicle features? My main question is if there are any residual deductions on XLT models with the front split-bench seat and/or no 3rd row seat? Also, what's residual bump for mileage lower than 10k vs 12k/yr? Is there an 8k option?
macsnjets Posts: 4Hi Car man, I'm looking to lease an Expedition in the Northeast. I have in mind an 4x4 XLT with a MSRP of $39,875.00. Hypothetically speaking if I can get the price to 34,500 including discounts, incentives and negotiations and lease for 39 months(& 39000miles) what can I expect the figures to be ? I'm coming up with a monthly payment of $463 (without doc fees and tags, etc) using a residual of 47%, money factor of .00104, 7% sales tax and a down payment of $1000. How far off am I with my figures ?
Thank you0
gonecruzan Posts: 13Hey Carman, I'm back. My lease of my '06 EB Explorer is up in Nov. and I am ready to move on. I am looking to go a little bigger as I am 6'2 and the explorer is not as big as I would like it to be. Soooo, that being said. I am looking at 2008 Expedition Limited 4x4 with 2 options only. Navigation and rear bucket seating. The total MSRP is $44.670 with a Dealer invoice of $41,106. I am looking to lease this with 10k miles a year allowance. Now my question is this. On my explorer, I only have 14k when my allowance was 21k. Can I use any of that towards the deal? Thank you for your time carman. This forum is great!0
dylcon Posts: 8Hi car man, I could use a little help here. I'm looking at leasing a 2008 Limited 4x2 and narowed it to 2:
I'm looking at 36 months, with 10K miles per year...zero down.
-MSRP $46,265. with final (x plan) selling price at $40,681.
-2nd choice vehicle....same terms... MSRP $43,775 with selling price of $38,416.
Would I save much by going out to 39 months?
Car man
when will you be able to answer post #83
Hi Anthony. The truck that you described probably has a spread of around $4,700 to $4,800 between its full MSRP and its dealer invoice price. In addition to this spread, Ford is currently providing $1,000 bonus cash and $500 lease cash ($1,500 total) on it. This gives you a total of over $6,000 to play with in your negotiations. If I was in the market for this truck, I personally would want a larger discount than the $3,600 that you were quoted. I would shoot for a discount of at least $5,000.
The lease rate that you were quoted for this truck looks about right to me. Vehicles' residual values are always calculated as a percentage of their full MSRPs. The acquisition fee is OK as well. Ford Credit charges a $595 acquisition fee on every vehicle that it leases.
I have never personally leased a vehicle through Ford Credit, but I have never seen anyone complain about them being unusually strict when evaluating vehicles for excess wear and teat at lease-end. I have found that most manufacturers' captive finance companies are very reasonable when evaluating the lease-end condition of vehicles. If I was leasing this truck, I personally would pass on any additional excess wear and tear coverage.
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum0
kevinulms Posts: 3does anyone know what the going lease rate for an 08 el limited loaded would be for 3 years 36000 miles with 4000 thousand up front .....0
Hey rob052067. The options that a vehicle is equipped with have not impact upon Ford Credit's residual values. The only things that have affect the residual value are trim level and whether the truck that you want is 2WD or 4WD.
I believe that 10,500 miles per year is Ford Credit's lowest mileage option.
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum0
This discussion has been closed.


text:
My art department's field trip this semester was to Madison, Wisconsin, to visit the Chazen Art Museum. Like many museums, the Chazen's permanent collection unfolds chronologically, progressing through art eras room-by-room, with the preponderance of work representing the modern and contemporary at the end of the tour in the biggest galleries. A funny thing happened as my class and I strolled through a millennium of art history; somewhere between the gilded altarpieces of the 13th century and the identity politics of the 1980's, I realized that much of the impact of early modernism was lost on my students, and, for a while, on me as well.
I spent my college years an abiding supporter of reductive visual evangelists like Roger Fry, Adolf Loos, Clive Bell and others who set out to strip the western world of the ornament and excess of an outmoded academy. My students on the other hand grew up mostly without art as a significant influence in their lives. Yet they and I gravitated to the same works at the Chazen that afternoon: folksy melodramas by the pre-Raphaelites, John Steuart Curry's hearty regionalism; Cossack-filled canvasses by 19th century Russian academics, and an exhibition that would have sent me running for Montmartre 20 years ago: "The Golden Age of British Watercolors, 1790–1910."
After a century of steeping in insignificance, these outliers finally seemed strange enough to pass for contemporary. Next to the forgotten neoclassicism and bizarre watercolors of the early 20th century I considered the possibility that the modernist gospel – the Manet through Pollock narrative – might be a bit overdetermined, perhaps baked too long in the ivory towers of art history departments. Conspiring with my students, to whom Piet Mondrian paintings read as clumsy academic pranks, and for whom Andrew Wyeth is an unassailable visionary, I dwelled on the legitimacy of a history subordinated by the modernist narrative; the Kenyon Coxes, the Franz Xavier Winterhalters, and the Jules Bastien Lepages. And for a while, Fernand Leger's work had never seemed so tired, and Thomas Hart Benton's never so improbably contemporary.
A few weeks later, I attended a program in New York City called "Culture Shock 1913†at the Greene Space with some friends. It recounted the events that rocked the cultural world that year, including the Armory Show, Arnold Schoenberg's first atonal symphony, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring and Marcel Duchamp's first readymade. MoMA curator Ann Temkin persuasively made the case for 1913 being the most pivotal cultural upheaval of the century; a time when civilization hung in the balance, its future up for grabs.
In terms of art I might have quibbled, but with the assist of music and literature, I was reminded of the reverberations and residue of that formal remodeling project. Listening to Erik Satie next to Stravinsky next to Schoenberg, and considering the formal inventions of Virginia Woolf and James Joyce, Picasso and Matisse started to laugh at me from their graves.
The question inevitably arises from such panel discussions as to what the next big thing in art will be. Are we doomed to languish in cyclical postmodern ennui, or does our ever-unfolding society always unpack a new paradigm at every dead end? Ms. Temkin was sure there would indeed be an "it†and "it†would be something birthed from technology and social media. Even with Picasso snickering, I had to wonder silently whether "it†might still be a wholesale reevaluation of the modernist project, dredging up an alternative history to coexist alongside the one we've taken for gospel.
On Monday, back in class, I decided to serve up some Rite of Spring to my students to gauge it's impact. Before the music could even set in, one of them blurted, "it sounds like a soundtrack to an intense science fiction movie.â€
"An old one?†I asked. "No one in the theaters now.†I agreed that it did, but pressed no further. They were squirming and ready to flee as freshmen do when class time is up.
I looked up at the clock and confirmed that class was ending. Only as they scrambled out the door did the institutionalized simplicity of the clock strike me. "The stripped-down and reductive spawn of 1913, " I thought. Twelve sans serif black numerals stark on an ornament-free white metal disk covered in curved Plexiglas. Vladimir Tatlin himself would be proud of the legacy. And modernism ticked along implacably as the students moseyed on.
We may all be moving past modernism, but its ghost haunts us whether or not we've been listening to it rattle its chains against the tile floor of the institution for the past 50 years.
Latest posts by Shane McAdams (see all)
- Gavin Brown at the Green Gallery in Milwaukee - January 16, 2014
- The Wisconsin Triennial and the Value of Context - December 11, 2013
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
BERLIN (AP) — The German government says Chancellor Angela Merkel will meet Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras in Berlin next week.
Merkel spokesman Steffen Seibert said Merkel will welcome Samaras to the chancellery on Tuesday.
He said Friday that the informal meeting offers an opportunity for the two leaders to review progress that Greece has made in implementing reform plans. Samaras will be in Berlin to attend a closed-doors economic conference organized by a German newspaper.
Greece has been kept afloat since May 2010 by rescue loans from the other 16 eurozone countries and the International Monetary Fund. In return for the loans, the lenders — Merkel's Germany in particular — insisted on a series of economic reforms, tax raises and spending cuts.


text:
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:I am confident they can get back on track and clinch their division... but come on! What's up with those penalties! Talk about beating yourself....
Asking a Raider fan that question is like going to church and asking jesus what the meaning of life.
I like Palmer.. He's throwing the interceptions at a game breaking rate.. but i think it's more of a chemisty as opposed to a tendancy interception.. they'll go down (i hope)
San Diego and Oakland have similar schedules on the home straight. I think we are in it with a real red hot shot.


text:
Relax and unwind in the pure luxury of this 600 thread count bed linen. Made from the finest Egyptian cotton sateen in brilliant white, completed with a simple border edge detail in your choice of grey or beige. This luxurious linen will complement contemporary interior schemes. Available in the following sizes: Double, King, Super king, Emperor and available in 2 different colours: White/beige, White/grey. The set includes: x1 Duvet cover, x1 Flat sheet, x2 Standard housewife pillowcases with a border edge detail and x2 Oxford edge pillowcases. Superking sized pillowcases 50x90cm available in superking and emperor sets.
DIMENSIONS: Finibus Border Super-King size Duvet set White/Grey
W:260cm / D:0cm / H:220cm


text:
by moonlight
autocaps off
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Both of Hood River County's state legislators have voiced strong opposition to Gov. John Kitzhaber's veto on Wednesday of two key budget-balancing bills.
Sen. Rick Metsger, D-Welches, and Rep. Patti Smith, R-Corbett, believe that Kitzhaber's action has threatened the future of Oregon's students by slashing $317 million from primary and secondary education — just three weeks before some schools open.
"What the governor has done is blown up the bridge just as the train is approaching," Metsger said.
"This governor by himself has decided that he knows better than the rest of us — I don't think he's made the argument and this action is totally irresponsible," Smith said.
On Wednesday evening, Kitzhaber made a televised speech to explain his veto of Senate Bill 1022, which would fund education with $267 million by doubling the first payment in the next budget period and allowing schools to borrow against it. He also vetoed House Bill 4056, which would use cigarette tax revenue to back $50 million in bonds for schools and provide a $175 million safety net if revenues continue to fall.
Officials from the Hood River County School District, Columbia Gorge Community College and Educational Service District 9 believe the only way to avoid severe budget cuts is for lawmakers to override Kitzhaber's action. The governor is calling all legislators to a fourth special session next Friday. If the House and Senate do not overturn the vetoes, Kitzhaber said he will bring the assembly back to Salem for a fifth special session in early September to confer on his plan to send an income tax increase to voters in November.
Smith is also challenging the fiscal responsibility of having repeated special sessions that cost taxpayers about $16,755 for the first day, including mileage and printing costs, and then $8,000 for each additional day.
Immediately after Kitzhaber's vetoes, Hood River County School District Superintendent Jerry Sessions, Dr. Pat Evenson-Brady, ESD superintendent, and Dr. Frank Toda, president of CGCC, joined other school officials across the state in the scramble to absorb the deep budget cuts that are now in effect until further notice.
Hood River schools stand to lose $1.4 million, CGCC nearly $500,000 and the ESD about $172,000 — in addition to budget reductions already enacted.
"The cuts will not change our fall schedule of classes," said Toda. "They will not change our commitment to our community — now expanded to include annexed areas of Hood River County — but they certainly endanger the essence of comprehensive community college services to our constituents."
Sessions said if the legislative override is unsuccessful the 10 schools in the Hood River district will add the current loss to the $1.2 million in cuts already made this year. He said the school board will meet Wednesday to discuss possible program reductions that could include elementary music classes, middle school sports and $60,000 of extra-curricular activities at the high school level.
"We're going to be looking at all of the options but this is just not good," said Sessions.
Evenson-Brady said the ESD, which serves both Hood River and Wasco Counties, will possibly be forced to vacate more than three professional staff positions, necessitating a reduction in services.
During his Aug. 7 speech, Kitzhaber said he vetoed the two bills because they were not "good for Oregon's future" since they did not provide a long-term solution to budget problems.
However, Smith said the legislature never intended for the bi-partisan plan to overcome the existing $860 million deficit to be the ultimate solution. She said the consensus of the elected House and Senate bodies was to provide immediate financial help to schools and other essential programs and then take a long look at how to bring more family wage jobs to Oregon and ensure its sustainability.
"I, for one, am willing to work on solutions but the governor has initiated the largest cut in funding to our public schools since the state took over their financial backing — and we simply cannot let this kind of reckless action prevail," said Smith.
Toda agrees that long-term action needs to be taken to solidify educational funding since the override would help schools this fiscal year, but only postpones budget challenges.
"What we really need to do in Oregon is to stabilize the education budget process. How do you run a multi-million dollar organization every year when you can't depend on stable revenue?" he asked.
Metsger and Smith are already serving on special committees to find a cure for Oregon's ailing economy.
During that search, they have vowed to guard funding for the youth, elderly and disabled populations.
"In good economic times some of the governor's actions would have been good, but these are unusual times and you have to take unusual steps to protect Oregon's most vulnerable populations," said Metsger.
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text:
holympus necesitaba un nuevo diseño de logotipo y lanzó un concurso de diseño en 99designs.
Un ganador ha sido elegido entre 136 diseños de 22 diseñadores freelance.
We're a brand new fitness startup about to enter soft launch. Simply put, we enable our users to track the results of their workouts. We also allow users to track their progress along a host of interesting metrics, and compare their performances to others across gender, age, experience, level of fitness, and so on.
We provide a dead simple user experience because we're trying to take the place of a technology that has no learning curve: a paper notebook. Think clean, fast, and easy to understand.
Our initial target market is CrossFit affiliates, gym members, and any other athletes who do CrossFit-style workouts. They meticulously track progress offline and we want to bring them online so that they can fully leverage everything online tracking will provide to improve their fitness.
The target audience is largely young, fit, and male. Women are also well represented. Our target audience is disproportionately Type A: they're aggressive; they relentlessly pursue goals; they consider themselves the best at everything they do, or aspire to reach that level.
They are not bodybuilders. For the most part, they look like this http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2…sonMUP.jpg or this http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2…scleUp.jpg or this http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2…2_0111.jpg.
"WOD" stands for "workout of the day."
Great logos will include something related to weightlifting, such as a barbell, kettlebell, or better yet a person performing a movement with one of these, such as someone doing an overhead squat, snatch, jerk, clean, or press. See the Potomac Crossfit logo for an example: http://www.potomaccrossfit.com/. Someone performing a muscle up or dip on the rings as above (or a handstand pushup or some other difficult bodyweight movement) could also be a great image. 'Isolation' movements with a small range of motion (e.g., bicep curls) should be avoided.
The brand name must appear in all caps, or as capitalized above. All caps is preferred but not required.
There are many great logos on tshirts at: http://www.lifeasrx.net/examples.php. This is the aesthetic we would like to duplicate.
We also like, in order of preference:
The latter two especially look a bit less professional than what we're looking for.
The logo should evoke strength, movement, confidence, aggression. It should be impactful and memorable. Professional appearance is critical.
The word CrossFit should not be involved in the logo whatsoever.
The phrase "tracking elite fitness" in all lowercase letters could appear somewhere in the logo, akin to the way "forging elite fitness" appears in some of the LifeAsRx designs linked to above.
We will require a layered PSD and a JPG. A matching favicon is also a plus.
Descubre cómo funciona un concurso de diseño u obtén más información sobre nuestros servicios de diseño de logo.


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The best mixtape is made with love and care. The best mixtape requires deep knowledge and skill to make. The messages contained in a mixtape are simultaneously opaque and clear. A mixtape is an invitation. A mixtape is not a compilation. I've been thinking a lot about exhibitions recently. They are expensive beasts and tend […]
Entries Tagged as 'reform'
An exhibition is a mixtape
May 29th, 2012 25 Comments
Tags: change · ideas · provocation · reform


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I hope that you took yesterday's assignment to heart, and started on creating 'your' space.
I say started because I have found that over time our spaces change and evolve as time moves forward.
As you attend your space, you will be moved to remove items, bring new items in. Go with it. This will do your heart good.
Anytime you are in 'your' space, take the time to really feel it.
Whenever you are in 'your' space leave the stresses and frustrations of the day outside the line of 'your' space. Don't worry they will wait for you.
Allow your mind to go blank, your body to relax. Breath in deeply, exhale slowly. If you find your mind wandering back to the reality of your situation, consciously force your mind to go blank. Let your mind be like a clean slate.
Practice this every time you enter 'your' space – with time this will become so natural you will not even think about it.
You will be able to enter, and Just Be.
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Hang Havenstein! He once quoted the President
July 19. 2014 8:59PM
One's record is fair game in politics. Bob Smith is regularly reminded of once leaving the Republican Party and, at another time, endorsing Democrat John Kerry for President. (Smith now says he didn't actually vote for Kerry, which reminds us of Bill Clinton saying he once smoked pot, but didn't inhale.)
Jeanne Shaheen may yet be forced to defend her claim of independence while voting 99 percent of the time with President Obama.
Gubernatorial hopeful Walt Havenstein, on the other hand, doesn't have a political record and that is driving his opponents, and apparently some journalists, to distraction, and absurdity.
Fellow GOP candidate Andrew Hemingway was out last week to denounce as "disturbing'' that this Havenstein fellow once gave a speech at his alma mater, the U.S. Naval Academy, in which he quoted President Obama.
The speech was in January, 2009. The new President had barely taken office. In fact, Havenstein's quote was from Obama's first Inaugural.
"As President Obama stated in his inaugural address last Tuesday, 'Our challenges may be new. The instruments with which we meet them may be new. But those values on which our success depends - hard work and honesty, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism - these things are old,'" Havenstein told Academy students.
"I believe our 44th President is saying that true leadership transcends generational differences."
Hang the man!
Seriously, reasonable people tend to wish the new guy well, for the nation's sake.
Unless we were dreaming, even GOP stalwart Judd Gregg considered joining Obama's first Cabinet on that basis.
Hemingway is undermining his own credibility with this kind of silliness. But his opponent must be thrilled every time people are reminded that Walt Havenstein is a successful business man AND a Naval Academy graduate.


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12:00 pm
To The Contrary with Bonnie Erbe Tammy Duckworth, (D-IL) - One of the first two female combat veterans in congress and the former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs. Tulsi Gabbard, (D-HI) - One of the first two female combat veterans, first Hindu and first female of Samoan ancestry to serve Congress. Susan Brooks, (R- IN) - She has made efforts to battle mortgage fraud, gun violence, drug trafficking, gangs, child exploitation and identity theft. D
12:30 pm
McLaughlin Group NULL
1:00 pm
Oscar Hammerstein II - Out of My Dreams Hosted by Matthew Morrison ("Glee"), this special is a celebration of the acclaimed lyricist and librettist. His works include Show Boat (1927), Oklahoma! (1943), South Pacific (1949), and The Sound of Music (1959). The film features movie clips from his musicals and interviews with Stephen Sondheim, Harold Prince, Shirley Jones, Mitzi Gaynor, Hammerstein family members and more.G
2:30 pm
Wallace Stegner This profile of Pulitzer Prize-winning author Wallace Stegner (Angle of Repose) reveals his increasing involvement in the conservation movement in the 1950s while fighting a dam proposal for Utah's Green River in Dinosaur National Monument. Known as the "dean of Western writers," he became passionate in the need to protect wild places. On the faculty of Stanford University, he mentored many of today's well-known writers.G
4:00 pm
Alone in the Wilderness Richard Proenneke lived nearly 30 years alone in the spectacular Alaskan backcountry, building a cabin and staying to become part of the countryside itself. This account follows his day-to-day explorations and activities and the chain of nature's events that kept him company.G
5:30 pm
Divinas Live at Chambord Castle A new musical genre is touching the hearts of fans worldwide, combining classical crossover, world music and newly arranged classic pop. Three female singers - Rita of Israel, Yulia of New Zealand and M?av of Ireland, a former member of Celtic Woman - present examples of the genre in this outdoor concert at France's Chateau de Chambord in May 2012.G
7:00 pm
Outdoor Idaho "A Sawtooth Celebration" OUTDOOR IDAHO takes a trip through time and space to examine the Sawtooth National Recreation Area, the first of its kind in Idaho and now celebrating its 40th anniversary. This special show profiles how the SNRA came to be established, the land use controversies that hastened the designation, and the people involved. The show also traces people and projects that contribute to its success, and looks at some of the issues leading into the future.G
8:30 pm
The PianoGuys: Live at Red Butte Garden Jon Schmidt on piano and Steven Sharp Nelson on cello bring the unique musical style they have honed in popular YouTube videos to the stage on the grounds of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. Their classical spin on new music and new spin on classical music strikes a chord with their growing audience. There is an opportunity to pledge for tickets to a live performance in Boise.G
10:00 pm
Joe Bonamassa: An Acoustic Evening at the Vienna Opera House Playing on the same stage as Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms, the guitarist known for his bluesy electric instrumentation performs on a selection of vintage acoustic instruments. He is supported by traditional Irish fiddler Gerry O'Connor, Swedish multi-instrumentalist Mats Wester on a Swedish keyed-fiddle, Los Angeles keyboard maestro Arlan Schierbaum, and Puerto Rican percussionist Lenny Castro.G
11:30 pm
Rick Steves' Delicious Europe Rick samples classic European cuisine from garlicky snails and homemade mozzarella to savory bouillabaisse, and other regional specialties.G


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Interfaces are used to define specific capabilities for classes that do not necessarily have an "is a" relationship. For example, the
interface can be implemented by any class or struct that has to enable client code to determine whether two objects of the type are equivalent (however the type defines equivalence).
does not imply the same kind of "is a" relationship that exists between a base class and a derived class (for example, a
is an
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I agree, Elisabeth. This is particularly tragic in light of the fact that B12 deficiency can be so easily and cheaply diagnosed.
sandi says
so, is this and your comment saying, that if we find we have a deficiency, it is impossible to rectify by taking Vit B12 supplements? this is irreversible?
Low B12 levels are correctable through supplementation – either sublingual or via injection. The damage caused by B12 may or may not be reversible, depending on where that damage has occurred.
joanna says
HI Chris. I was going to my Dr, for years,with pains achs and pure tiredness,falling asleep all the time!i lost my baby boy over B12 deficiency ,so for me and mine,it doesnt really matter if its reversible,my son would of been 12 in april.. no one ever thought about looking for it untill it was way to late,Doctors should test for it!if only i were given the test before it was to late!and a painless injection,Seth would be here with mme now
V-12 Def …. is a life changing problem as i said i lost my baby but also i lost my family,the loss tore my family apart,my husband couldnt take the stress,so he left and we lost everything,including our home!..ppl plz push ur doc on testing!
Chris, If they catch the B12 deficiency in time symptoms can get better. In my case, drs. didn't and I have permanent nerve damage. Apparently, my body cannot absorb Vitamin B12 orally' so that's why I started shots and now I'm on Nascobal a B12 nasal instead of the shots and it has worked as well as the shots for me. When your body can't absorb B12 orally it's called the intrinsic factor, which is what I have.
Hi Jane, I have the same problem you had. They didn't catch my B12 level in time cuz they took a lot of tests, foe other things, MRI's, Bloodwork and a spinaltap. And found nothing causing all my symptoms. Two years later a dr. did some tests and found my B12 level was 41. By that time the nerve damage was permanent.I took B12 injections and now take Nascobal. My levels are always up but no change with my symptoms. So I'm looking into MeCbl/AdoCbl to help the central nervous systems.Possibly TransderOil which I read about on this site. But my body too can't absorb B12 orally which before 8 yrs. ago I took supplements and then that's when all this started.
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Have Camera Will Travel
National Mall, Washington DC
Most photos you see of the Reflecting Pool are looking west towards the Lincoln Memorial or east towards the World War II Memorial, Washington Monument, and US Capitol Building. This one, which I took on a cold, misty winter's day, is looking across, from south to north, towards Constitution Gardens.
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Lincoln Memorial
Reflecting Pool is a long, thin, shallow body of water running from the
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's "I Have a Dream" speech as part of the 1963 March on Washington, a pivotal moment in the American civil rights movement.
Because it's so shallow, it gets calm quickly, providing a mirror-like, smooth surface. It is particularly effective at night, when the smooth surface of the water provides a sharp reflection for the lights on the monuments at either end.
This was taken before sunrise around the time of the spring equinox. You can see the glow of the sun below the horizon directly behind the Washington Monument , which is directly east.
The renovations of the Reflecting Pool fixed a number of things with the water flow and drainage. They also made it shallower. On this hot spring day people were out doing the Forrest Gump thing. During very cold winter stretches you can also find ice skaters out on it (not officially sanctioned).
Sunrise a few days before the spring equinox. At the time this was taken, scaffolding covered the dome of the US Capitol Building in the distance.
This view is from the top of the Washington Monument. Under normal circumstances, you can tour the Washington Monument and ride an escalator to the top for views out over DC. But the combination of renovations and unreliable elevator mean that that option isn't always open.
The area around is a favorite for soldiers from the local military bases to do their early morning exercise. In this shot, two soldiers are doing laps around the Reflecting Pool while wearing their packs to build up their endurance.
With the water temperature colder than the air temperature on this morning at sunrise, a mist rises from the water.
This shot, taken with a moderate telephoto lens, is from the eastern end of the Reflecting Pool, next to the World War II Memorial.
The best way to get to the Reflecting Pool is by Metro. The closest stops are Foggy Bottom (0.8 miles) (Orange and Blue lines), Smithsonian (1.1. miles) (Orange line), Arlington National Cemetery (0.9 miles) (Blue line), or Federal Triangle (1.4 miles) (Orange line). Metro has a handy Trip Planner and here's a map of the Metro lines .
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Pakistan: NATO supply deal looking more likely
ISLAMABAD – U.S. and Pakistani officials expressed optimism Monday that Islamabad was close to reopening its Afghan border to NATO troop supplies after a 7-month blockade, a move that could significantly reduce tension between the two countries.
The tussle over the supply line, which Pakistan closed in November in retaliation for American airstrikes that killed 24 of its troops, has driven the bilateral relationship to new lows, threatening U.S. prospects in Afghanistan.
The two sides have been deadlocked for months because of disagreements over transit payments and Washington's refusal to apologize for the deadly attack, which it insists was an accident.
The Pakistani government has also been worried about the inevitable political backlash from reopening the route, given the high level of anti-American sentiment in the country.
While the exact details of a deal remain unclear, there are growing signs that a breakthrough could be imminent.
Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf called a meeting of the defense committee of the Cabinet on Tuesday to decide whether to reopen the supply line, according to a senior Pakistani official.
"The environment seems to be optimistic," the official said.
The Pakistani ambassador to the U.S., Sherry Rehman, left for Pakistan on Sunday night to be present for the meeting, according to two other Pakistani officials who said it appeared a resolution on the supply line was near.
The officials all spoke on condition of anonymity because of the delicate nature of the matter.
The decision to call the Cabinet meeting followed a visit Monday by a high-level American delegation to Islamabad that included the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Gen. John Allen; Under Secretary of Defense for Policy James Miller; and Deputy Secretary of State for Management and Resources Thomas Nides, said a senior U.S. official. It was Allen's second visit in less than a week.
The latest trip was a prime example of how "quiet diplomacy can play a significant role to get things done," the official said.
The U.S. addressed Pakistan's demands for higher transit fees by sweetening the deal with extensive road construction projects, the American official said, without providing specific figures.
Before the November attack, Pakistan was charging the U.S. $250 per truck. Afterward, Pakistan demanded $5,000 and the U.S. countered with $500. It's unclear where the deal stands now.
The U.S. has compensated for the closed route by using a much longer, more expensive supply line that runs into Afghanistan through Central Asia. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has said the route is costing an extra $100 million a month now and could grow as the U.S. starts to withdraw equipment in advance of the 2014 troop drawdown in Afghanistan.
The issue that has bogged down negotiations the most is the U.S. refusal to apologize for the November attack, which Washington has said was conducted in self-defense after Pakistani troops fired on American forces.
The Obama administration is apparently worried that apologizing could expose it to criticism from Republicans, given anger over Pakistan's alleged support for militants battling U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
The U.S. has sought to finesse the issue by providing a list of senior officials who have expressed regret over the incident, including President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, said the senior American official on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the discussions.
While a deal seems more likely, it is by no means guaranteed.
Pakistan appeared close to reopening the supply line in May, prompting NATO to invite Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari to a summit in Chicago largely focused on the Afghan war. When Pakistan failed to follow through, Obama made his anger clear by refusing to have a one-on-one meeting with Zardari.
The U.S. is eager to resolve the conflict because Pakistan's cooperation is seen as key to success in Afghanistan, especially in negotiating a peace deal with Taliban militants with whom Islamabad has strong historical ties.
Pakistan is motivated by a desire to keep billions of dollars in American aid flowing to the country. More than $1 billion in military aid has been frozen over the last year and would likely be released only if Pakistan reopened the supply route. Some members of Congress have called for cutting off all U.S. aid unless Pakistan cooperates.
Gannon is AP Special Regional Correspondent for Afghanistan and Pakistan. Associated Press writers Matthew Lee and Kimberly Dozier in Washington contributed to this report.


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|Forum Rules
|Firearms Safety
|Firearms Photos
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|Email Changes
|Today's Posts
|Mark Forums Read
|View Poll Results: The Total Cost of a Self Defense Shooting
|Less than $100.00
|Between $101.00 and $1000.00
|Between $1001.00 and $2000.00
|Between $2001.00 and $3000.00
|Between $3001.00 and $5000.00
|Greater than $5001.00 please let us know how much total
|Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll
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|Search this Thread
|January 22, 2010, 07:29 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2006
Posts: 424
After the shooting Poll
Building on Firepower's "Have you ever been shot at" Poll.
First, if you've been involved in a Self Defense shooting NOT AN ACT OF WAR (edited 1/24/09 thank you JohnKSA) or as an LEO what was the total cost to you? Missed work, legal fees, Doctor Bills, hell, I'll even let you factor in stress. Please factor in inflation if this happened in the past and let us know what year this occurred
Please be discreet and let's not let this evolved into a whizzing contest
Thank you very much for your time and contribution!!
Last edited by 1911rocks; January 24, 2010 at 09:39 AM.
|January 22, 2010, 07:16 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,384
I put down $5 grand plus, but every case is different. Remember, self defense is not a "right", it is an affirmative defense to a charge of murder or manslaughter. If the shooting is in the shooter's home, and there is no other involvement (e.g., a drug deal gone bad), the police will probably not make an arrest, and there will be no charges; a civil suit is still a possibility.
But, in a shooting outside the home, the shooter will almost always be arrested, so lost work, etc. can be a factor. If the prosecutor chooses not to press charges, that is the end of it from a criminal law point of view.
But if charges are pressed, and bail is required, a bail bondsman will charge ten percent, non-refundable, of the bond amount. Bond may not be allowed if the charge is murder, but even if allowed may run to, say, a half million. That means someone has to come up with $50,000, in cash or collateral that they won't get back.
Attorney's fees can run $500+ per hour, depending on the lawyer and the case. And on, and on.
Then, if the criminal charges are dropped or the outcome of a criminal trial is successful for the defendant, the shooting victim or his survivors may file a civil wrongful death/injury suit. Charges for defending that suit will pile up also.
In other words, the idea that you can just shoot someone, claim self-defense and walk away whistling is something that happens in movies, not in real life. The fact is that, web site ninja nonsense notwithstanding, shooting or killing someone, even in a clear cut case of self defense, is NOT taken lightly in modern society.
NOTE: Before responding with silly nonsense about how YOU can shoot half the county, claim self defense, and be awarded a medal by the governor, THINK! You will NOT be the exception, and if something does happen, the more you rant and bluster about gun rights, and how want to shoot people, the more likely you are to get a lot of prison time.
Jim K
|January 22, 2010, 07:33 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,169
I can't really put a value on the lives of my children. Whatever the cost it will be worth it.
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
|January 22, 2010, 07:35 PM
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,340
I will be interested to see what people have to say about this.
I would guess that your higher choices don't even scratch the surface.
In other words, I think that the cost is generally going to be next to nothing, like $100 or $200 or less, or it's going to be astronomical. If you actually get charged or sued in civil court then $5000 is not even going to cover the retainer.
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
|January 22, 2010, 07:39 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,560
The price of the ammo
|January 22, 2010, 07:44 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: East TN
Posts: 2,645
Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250
Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!!
If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging.
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|January 22, 2010, 07:51 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: November 21, 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 419
It cost me 15k
Jesus according to Luke:22:36: Then said he unto them, ,,,,,, and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one......... Thomas Jefferson: "No man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
|January 22, 2010, 08:35 PM
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,092
In many cases, $5,000 is going to be pretty much the floor.
You'd be well advised to get a lawyer, and even if everything is absolutely clear cut and cleanly in your favor, you're going to burn up 10+ hours of lawyer time, and that's $2,000 to $5,000 +/-.
If your lawyer is going to have to push the DA to decide that the shooting was righteous or otherwise pitch your position, we're getting up toward $10,000. Throw in a court appearance or two, and now we'd be pushing $15,000 to $20,000.
Now if you're really unlucky and wind up in trial, costs for a jury trial, including private investigator and expert witness fees, will push the bill up to somewhere between $75,000 and $150,000.
You can probably add another $2,000 to $20,000 to the above figures to cover time off work, bail bonds, etc.
|January 22, 2010, 08:57 PM
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 19,562
But what if it is a good shoot? I thought you got a pizza!
Nice analyses, folks. I've heard the same figures in classes.
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
|January 22, 2010, 09:05 PM
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,092
|January 22, 2010, 09:07 PM
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,340
Otherwise, I don't deliver across the street!
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
|January 22, 2010, 09:15 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: September 22, 2005
Location: Behind a keyboard.
Posts: 1,565
I have never been involved in a self-defense shooting, but a friend of mine was. The BG broke in at night downstairs while my friend and his girlfriend were home upstairs. While the BG was trying to pull the wires to the alarm system, which was blaring, my friend locked his girlfriend in the bedroom as she called 9-1-1 and stationed himself on the stairs. BG finally gave up on the alarm system and went to the stairs, where my friend met him with a .357. One shot to the chest, and no more BG.
Local DA ruled it a justified self-defense shoot. No charges and no civil suit.
Keep in mind that it was a pretty clear self-defense situation. BG had just been released from prison something like 48 or 72 hours earlier, and the alarm system was busted up. If your particular situation is not very clear, and/or your state laws are overly strict, a similar scenario might play out differently for you.
NOTE: I did not vote in this poll because I was not personally involved in the shooting. The above is intended for information purposes only.
Last edited by WhyteP38; January 23, 2010 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Note added.
|January 22, 2010, 09:32 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: November 3, 2009
Location: Not close enough to the beach
Posts: 1,478
After the shooting
Not a thing, the PPA had a good attorney on retainer if needed, and my grandfather had an even better one on retainer for years. My case was clear-cut, the legal use of deadly force to stop a fleeing felon.
My incident had nothing to do with it, but the law on using deadly force to stop a fleeing felon was tightened up about 18 months after my shooting.
|January 23, 2010, 08:40 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: October 17, 2004
Location: Rural N.H.
Posts: 1,586
A friend of mine and I were discussing this the other day. He stated he felt you may be better off to just walk away if there are no witnessed the shooting. I don't agree because first you NEVER know if there may have been a witness, second you now look GUILTY! I understand the thought in some places where prosecutors and police are anti gun. Another guy I talked to said Shoot, Shovel, shut-up, I think you would look more guilty!
My position is if you are justified ( and you better be sure ) you should stand up for your rights. No one wants to look over their shoulder and have their stomach in knots when the doorbell rings or they see a cruiser for the rest of their life. That's like being mentally incarcerated for life, your physically free but not emotionally. The emotional cost of killing someone is a high price, but the financial cost can also bury you. Bottom line is you fight for your freedom just as hard as you fought for your life.
The real danger to America is not abroad but within..
Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out!
Save America, abort liberalism.
|January 23, 2010, 09:11 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2006
Posts: 424
One rhetorical question that I want pose is: Where does the "validity/legality of the shooting occur? Answer, in some cases a Grand Jury, in some cases the arraignment. Anyone want to go before a Judge in an arraignment without an Attorney/Lawyer/Solicitor?
Yes, the DA, in some locales can drop it right there.
This post is just to give us all some food for thought.
Remember, the Poll is after the shooting and is based on the respondant actually being involved in the shooting. Hey, maybe even, the victim. If you were the person shot, did you sue?
|January 23, 2010, 09:15 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,719
Nothing, it was cleared through the local DA. Didn't happen to me but my mother. She shot/killed an intruder (that had already been to prison once for murder) in her home that beat the crap out of my sister with a tire-iron (almost killed her) and was heading for my mother. She never got arrested, even got the gun back. This was back in '98/TX.
"Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul."
|January 23, 2010, 09:16 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2006
Posts: 424
N.H. Yankee
You did a fine job of putting it all together. Nowhere in our system of Law is it implied or suggested that our Freedoms and Liberties are without tangible costs. Sometimes, it's the sacrifice of battle. Sometimes, it's bankruptcy, Overtime, a Second Job, etc. We sometimes forget because our lives, in the US, are as good as they are.
|January 23, 2010, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2006
Posts: 424
Thank you for your contribution. TX has some good things going for it. Thanks again.
|January 23, 2010, 11:14 AM
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,092
This was recently discussed at length: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=390985 .
|January 23, 2010, 10:46 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,157
I was just watching an episode of "Cops" where they were called to a shooting.
From the program, a guy in his own house, was assaulted by one or two individuals. He claims to have been hit in the face three or more times and he pulled a gun and shot one of the BG 3 times.
The cops rolled up and found the gunshot victim and his friend and got an ambulance called. They interviewed the shooter and he looked like he had been worked over, The shooter claimed to have a CCW and the police recovered the weapon.
The SHOOTER was arrested and booked for attempted homicide.
Whether is is found innocent or not, the cash flow will be substantial.
I do not know if it was a good arrest or not but you can bet the shooter is going to be facing some huge expense.
I am sure the police acted IAW facts developed at the scene but is looks bad for the shooter.
|January 23, 2010, 11:14 PM
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 21,714
Might also have been a good idea to exclude LEO in the line of duty shootings since the department typically pays any legal fees, pays for any counseling required, pays leave as required, etc. The cost to the actual shooter might be nothing while the actual cost (borne by the department) could be considerable.
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
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text: The Best Book I Read This Year Full Name * Affiliation * - Select -StudentFacultyStaffOther NCSU College/School/Department * Design, Chemical Engineering, etc. (or "None" if Non-NCSU) Email Address * Title of Book * Author(s) * Your Review * Permission * I give NCSU Libraries permission to publish my review on its website. I understand that my review may be modified to correct errors in grammar, spelling, or to reduce its length.


text:
The Tilles Center for the Performing Arts, on the C. W. Post campus of Long Island University, is a state-of-the-art facility that hosts a variety of artists and ensembles throughout the year: the New York Philharmonic, ballet and modern dance companies, Broadway productions and more—music and theater from around the world, in fact. A month ago, the Broadway musical actress Bernadette Peters graced the stage and offered a dynamic tribute to the works of Rodgers & Hammerstein, Stephen Sondheim and other great lyricists and composers. Broadway devotee that I am, I could not pass up this opportunity.
Possessed of a lustrous voice that has captivated audiences for decades, Ms. Peters is clearly devoted to the theater. But not everyone knows of her charitable passions, one of which is saving and rescuing homeless animals. Ten years ago, in 1999, she and the actress Mary Tyler Moore founded Broadway Barks, an annual summer charity event held outdoors in New York City to promote the adoption of shelter animals. The adopt-a-thon has come a long way, garnering promotional support and presentations by many celebrities. It currently benefits more than two dozen animal welfare groups (I'm sure there are countless similar programs around the country and abroad as well).
Ms. Peters will appear in mid-November at a Broadway theater for a repeat concert, with all proceeds to benefit Broadway Barks and her other charity, Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS. A children's book (for ages 4 to 8) she wrote in 2008, Broadway Barks (illustrated by Liz Murphy), benefits her animal charity. The book comes with a CD of the story and a lullaby, "Kramer's Song," with music and lyrics by Ms. Peters herself (whose mixed-breed dog, adopted from a shelter, is named Kramer).
As many America readers are aware, I am an animal lover and try to do as much as possible for the cause of homeless, abused animals (not to mention supporting the efforts of the Audubon Society, the National Wildlife Federation, the Nature Conservancy and the Equine Protection Network, among others). The causes, unfortunately, are numberless while needed resources are scarce. Some progress is being made on shutting down puppy mills, on greater oversight of the treatment and crating of farm animals and on legislation to prohibit having a wild animal as a personal pet.
What I see and experience in my volunteer work at a local adoption shelter (a no-kill center, by the way) can be equally disturbing. We have had dogs and kittens literally dumped outside our door anonymously. We have found animals bound to fences and trees with hard wire. We were recently visited by someone who blithely announced she has a 10-year-old dog and now wants a cat—but not both. Will we accept the dog? Responsible animal owners realize the place a pet should hold within a family and shudder in the face of such cold indifference.
It is especially gratifying in this volunteer work to know we make a difference. We save a needy animal, (re)socialize him, engage a professional trainer (who donates time) and take animals out of their crates for much-needed holding or cuddling time. This is crucial for building trust and human connection in the case of a heretofore isolated, neglected or mistreated animal. Manifold duties keep a large group of volunteers—who range from youngsters to oldsters—busy seven days a week.
Happily, we do find good homes for many of our animals, which should be reward enough. But this Broadway babe would also love to sing for her shelter. Give me a C, Maestro, please.


text:
Pictured above: A slide from Margaret Atwood's marvelous presentation at TOC on the future for authors
it comes to non-narrative nonfiction books, I don't think of the
authors of these books as authors. I think of them as experts,
entrepreneurs or business professionals who are interested in authoring a
book because of the credibility it lends them. Maybe it makes it easier
for them to get other paying gigs, or speaking invites, or to gather
more audience for other products and services.
In other words,
the book is a critical aspect of their platform. Maybe for some authors
it's a money-maker, but most mid-list authors cannot quit their day job
based on royalties.
I'm starting to wonder if a traditional print
book has become a glorified platform builder (and an ego booster) that
doesn't deserve as much weight as we all still give it. It offers
precious little ROI given the time-sink of writing and promoting
something that's 80,000 words or more.
I speak from the author's
point of view here, but certainly publishers must be asking this
question too. (I've seen what a typical nonfiction book sells. It's not
Here are 2 key reasons why I would rethink pursuing authorship of a nonfiction book (of the non-narrative kind).
1. For ideas/information, a book is becoming less and less of an ideal medium.
Consider all the ways one might convey the same ideas, with even more
power and impact, with either the same time commitment or less, and for
more money/value (plus it's content that's not tied up with a
E-mail newsletters
Blog series
Self-study curriculum
Digital downloads (packages of content)
Online/community forum
Live online seminars or calls
Multimedia presentation (video/audio)
Mobile apps
For anyone who has the requisite platform to interest a publisher,
there's probably more money to be made in marketing and selling their
own content, in whatever form/medium they most enjoy (or their audience
enjoys). As more and more readers transition to digital
reading devices, and physical bookstore distribution/visibility becomes
less relevant to success, a publisher will have to add value in some way
that the author cannot.
Will it be through editing? Probably
not. The author can get that himself if he has a good network. (And if
he has a good platform, he has a good network.)
Will it be
through direct-to-consumer relationships that the publisher has that the
author doesn't? Maybe, but the Internet levels the playing field, and
most savvy authors I know are developing their direct-to-reader
reach—and would be more interested in partnering with an Amazon or a
Levenger type—or some entity that has the attention of an audience that the
author has yet to capture or be exposed to.
A further note on the future
The book format is still being used too often, and in sloppy ways, to fill holes in publishers' schedules.
I love how Kevin Kelly defines books:
A book is a self-contained story, argument, or body of knowledge that takes more than an hour to read.
majority of nonfiction books published today don't meet this criterion
honestly. Instead, they feel like a series of blog posts. The ideas are
padded to make a book. Often they they don't teach me anything I
couldn't have found or learned online; they regurgitate well-known
knowledge in a sexy package. Sometimes even the package isn't that
great. For this reason alone, I think the book format loses credibility,
validity, and importance in our culture.
There is an alternative
for everyone (aside from what I've described in points 1 and 2). As
more reading and book buying moves into the digital realm, and
publishers (and authors) don't have to meet a certain length requirement
or page count to be marketable in print or through bookstores, quality
ought to improve. Seth Godin's Domino project is an example of how this is happening. Also take a look at Atavist.
these aren't really books by Kelly's definition—just an alternative and
better medium for delivering certain ideas. Perhaps this medium is one
of the new business cards or platform builders for tomorrow's nonfiction
"authors." Not unlike traditional publishing, you're getting the rubber
stamp of a brand or an authority who believes your work or your ideas
merit their time and attention.
(Is it bad that I'm starting to
use author in quotation marks? It already feels like an anachronism in a
world of collaboration, sharing, and electronic media.)
In any
case: given that a formal book (whether print or digital) isn't going to
be the best way to deliver most information/advice/teachings in the
future, I think Kevin Kelly's definition will start to become the gold
standard by which anyone (either author or publisher) considers
investing in this legacy form. But there are few authors and few ideas
out there that really deserve it.


text:
Rochester police junior citizens academy still accepting applicationsBy JOHN QUINN
Union Leader Correspondent
October 28. 2013 12:37AM
ROCHESTER — While the deadline is quickly approaching, there is still time for youngsters interested in law enforcement to sign up for the city's first junior citizens academy.
The academy, geared to area residents aged 14 to 20, will run Tuesdays between Nov. 5 and Jan. 14 from 3 to 6 p.m. at Spaulding High School. A bus will be available to transport middle school students to the high school during the class.
As of last week, 11 participants have signed up and there's room for more, according to Police Lt. Anne Gould.
"I would love to see up to 25 kids," Gould said. Potential candidates have until Oct. 31 to submit their names. Participants, who must pass a background check that includes a criminal records check, will be accepted on a first-come, first-serve basis. Preference will be offered to Rochester residents. Applications and Release of Information Authorization forms must be filled out and signed by a parent/guardian if the teen is under the age of 18, according to police.
"This is definitely an excellent beginning process for kids ages 14 to 20 to utilize as a gateway into a career into law enforcement," Gould said. "We will be encouraging all the participants to consider being part of the Rochester Police Department Explorer Post.
"Like the previous citizens police academies — which have been offered for adults — the department has hosted in the past, the focus is to better educate the public about what officers do, how it happens and why it serves the community, Gould said.
Police plan to hold classes about ethics, community policing, investigations and prosecutions, the use of technology, Internet safety and scams, traffic accidents, collecting and processing evidence, specialty units and lethal and nonlethal weapons.
As a culmination of the class, participants will be able to ride along with an officer to see how the skills are used to help serve the city, according to police.
Gould said she will also encourage participants to take part in the N.H. Chiefs of Police Cadet Training Academy — a weeklong, 24-hour academy for kids of the same age group, where she's been a staff member for the past decade.
For more information, contact Lt. Anne Gould at 330-7148 or via firstname.lastname@example.com.


text:
Lloyd and hundreds of 32BJ SEIU airport workers from LaGuardia, JFK and Newark airports marched down Ditmars Avenue on Monday to call on the Port Authority for higher wages, paid sick days and to create a stable work environment.
"It makes no sense to have a full-time job if you have to go on public assistance," Lloyd said. "That's for people who aren't able to earn any income or don't have a job at all. I work full time so I should be able to support myself."
Although Lloyd said he is expecting a new position as a truck driver at the airport, he still has not received any notice of a pay increase or health coverage.
"I'm here today to fight for the salary and benefits, but also for the respect of an employee that works at JFK," he said. "All we want is the recognition for the work that we do."
Congressman Charles Rangel joined the protestors at a pre-march rally held at the corner of Ditmars Boulevard and 94th Street, just across the highway from LaGuardia Airport, on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.
"What a great opportunity we have to remember Dr. King and to realize that no matter what life is like, there are so many people that have less than we do," Rangel said. "There are people that work here every day and they live in poverty and that is wrong."
Rangel and 32 federal, state and city elected officials, along with clergy and airport workers, were later arrested as nearly 1,000 protestors blocked a bridge to the airport.
"We have to stand up for justice," Rangel said. "If it means getting arrested in an act of civil disobedience, then we wear that arrest as a badge of honor."
Councilman Daneek Miller, among those arrested in the protest, later said in a statement that, "Today we honored Dr. King's memory by standing with airport workers and fighting for justice."
"We were arrested so that airport workers can have the living wages they deserve," Miller said. "The importance of properly compensating the individuals who tend to our city's gateways cannot be understated."
Prior to the march, dozens of elected officials threw their support behind the union's call for living wages.
"The City Council will stand united for you, airport workers, for your demands," Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito said. "We have seen mobilization across this nation for fast food, car wash workers and airport workers, and we will be sure that we stand with you."
After ushering in airport workers, one after another telling a similar tail of struggle and injustice, Hector Figueroa, president of 32BJ SEIU, said the rally is just the beginning in an effort to bring fairness to the working class of the city.
"It is an honor to stand with these courageous men and women who are asking only for decent wages, good benefits and to be treated with dignity and respect," Figueroa said. "You can be sure that this is not the last time you will see us. We are not going away after this."


text:
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Custom Kube
Create, Customize and Share your own unique 3D screensavers, and create 3D Slide shows, 3D Photo albums, 3D Presentations and many more.
Features: 24 awesome 3d effects, screensaver creation wizard, imports easily custom images-videos-music's, 3d Benchmarking, inbuilt mp3/wav/midi player,...
Platforms: Windows
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|Cost: $15.95 USD
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Custom Calendar Maker allows you to make your own calendars that you can customize with your pictures and photos. You can add your personal events, save your customized calendar to a bitmap file or print it to paper.
Some features available are: make photo calendars with your images,define...
Platforms: Windows
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Custom Eclipse Builder is a lightweight Ant-based project to build a company and personal customized Eclipse distribution including company and personal relevant plugins, preferences and settings. The modern software development process becomes more and more distributed characted. Now, a usual...
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Custom Geometry is an extension which resizes and positions the window according to your settings. Custom Geometry adds a button to the Firefox status bar that will resize the Firefox window to your specifications. Many other extensions will resize the window, but only to preset dimensions,...
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Make happy your dear ones by designing beautiful greeting cards with personalized messages to shown all much you loved or cared for them using advance custom greeting card maker software. Most extraordinary featured greeting card maker software allowed user to craft colorful and good looking...
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If you are looking for professional custom icon design, IconDesignLAB.com does all of the hard work for you, presenting you with high quality expert results. Whatever type of icons you need, this service will not disappoint, offering you main program icons, company logos and interface icons for...
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Black and white toolbar icons set created by Gentleface custom icons and user interface design company. These program icons can be used for wireframes and software mockups creation, websites and software applications including iPhone and iPod apps. You'll find a set of 8 cursors and 236...
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Custom QuickIcons is a backend component to customize the Quick Icons in the CPanel of your Joomla! Backend. So you have not to go through the menus to reach important and most used Settings, Modules, Components.
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This is designed for desktop blog clients, which don't support native custom fields. InstallationUnpack and upload it to the /wp-content/plugins/ directory.Activate the plugin through the 'Plugins' menu in WordPress. Requirements: - WordPress 2.0.2 or higher
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HarePoint Custom Alerts is a must-have solution which enables the creation of all types of custom alerts and email notifications and their editing in SharePoint.
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Custom Aquarium Screensaver will decorate your desktop with the amazing 3D tropical fish swimming around the beautiful 3D aquatic plants. Free download the custom aquarium screensaver. Build your own aquarium and watch the 3D fish alive on your own custom aquarium. Compatible with Windows XP,...
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This script is a custom scroll bar maker for both vertical or horizontal applications. The Scroll Bar may control a 'Scroll Element' content or return the slider position relative to its travel to a specified function.Features:- The Scroll Bar and optional Scroll Content Panel are defined in the...
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This project will create a custom App Wizard for creating MEX files in Visual Studio.Net. After installing, use the wizard to create a skeleton mex-file project, with the correct project settings. Simply fill in your function code and compile to create your DLL.
Platforms: Matlab
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This package contains no M-code - just a set of custom icons I created for a blog post on Doug's Pick of the Week using the submitted icon editor.
Platforms: Matlab
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This project will create a custom App Wizard for creating MEX-files in Visual Studio.Net. After installing, use the wizard to create a skeleton MEX-file project, with the correct project settings. Simply fill in your function code and compile to create your DLL.
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Module Yahoo Messnger (YM) Status Custom Image is a modue that allow you to display your current yahoo messenger status with various of images options. Also, you can to define your own image!
Platforms: PHP
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Dreamrig is a PHP script that creates a website for a user to put together and order a custom computer. It would be great for the website of a Custom Computer Manufacturing Company.
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Simple display of the latest updates to your custom post type.Simplicity at its finest!This simple plugin adds a widget that allows for the display of recent posts in any custom post type. It functions almost identically to the built-in WordPress "Recent Posts" widget with the added option of...
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Works with Custom Smilies 2.3!I use Custom Smilies 2.3 plugin. However, I prefer the Yahoo! Messenger emoticons. So, I did some digging, found them all, then tweaked my plugin to use those emoticons. Yahoo! Emoticons for Custom Smilies 2.3 is a tweak for the plugin Custom Smilies 2.3 found at...
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text:
CIU Professor Begins Music Program in Prison
By Clark Newsom,
Communications Director,
South Carolina Department of Corrections
(Originally Published in "The Rap Sheet")
Each Tuesday and Thursday morning, the flute-like sounds of recorders can be heard playing very basic musical notes coming from beginners either new to music or just a bit rusty. The sound is part of an unlikely scene in the Greenwood Dorm at Broad River Correctional Institution (BRCI) where inmates are enjoying an opportunity never before offered at the South Carolina Department of Corrections.
For one hour on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, inmates who represent a wide range of ages are learning music with the aspiration of being a part of SCDC's first-ever concert band. They have signed up for beginner music classes with the goal of learning to play either brass, woodwinds, or percussion in what will eventually become an institutional concert band.
A concert band in prison is the brainchild of Dr. David Osterlund, the former director of Columbia International University's Prison Initiative and a long-time music instructor at the school, and SCDC's director of Chaplains Lloyd Roberts. After discussing the idea with Warden
Robert "Chip" Stevenson and agency Director Bill Byars, Osterlund was given the go-ahead in August.
"Our goal is to provide qualified inmates with an opportunity to exercise a constructive means of discipline and personal expression through the development and exercise of musical skills in group settings," said Dr. Osterlund. "We believe that the men of BRCI that take part in this program will find the challenge of developing musical skills to be constructive, therapeutic, enjoyable, and mentally and spiritually healthy."
If the initial music program goes well, the plan is to expand it to eligible men and women of the Department of Corrections' other institutions around the state.
Osterlund will be the initial instructor for the concert band program with the hopes of adding more instructors and support personnel when possible. The program will subsist on donations and a volunteer support base in the beginning. So far, 28 inmates at BRCI have qualified to take part in the band program. They must have displayed incident-free behavior and show an interest in learning to read and play music.
Inmates who participate will be taught in the recorder class, three times a week for an hour per session. They will have group practices and are expected to practice on their own 30 minutes each day. Experienced musicians will be auditioned to determine reading level and experience. After 15-weeks of training, the student should be able to successfully demonstrate the skills necessary to begin training on brass, woodwind, or percussion instruments. The concert band program at SCDC is based on four years of musical study leading to a certificate signifying a level of advancement which indicates a student's ability to complete a task and demonstrate to a potential employer that the participant has the ability to be faithful in his work with a desire to improve. The hope also is that, in the case of advanced players, their participation may lead to future recommendation in the area of music teaching or performance.
Osterlund and Chaplain Roberts managed to get a discount on 50 recorders for the beginner students by working through the Columbia Philharmonic Orchestra, while a piano was donated by Rice Music House of Columbia and brass instruments by individuals around the state donated
Warden Stevenson credited Associate Warden Sharonda Sutton for her hard work and dedication in assisting Osterlund in getting the music program underway. Sutton says the concert band has already created a lot of interest and excitement among the BRCI inmate population.
"It gives our inmates another interesting and creative task to do that has not been available to them before," Sutton said. "It is also a chance for them to earn a certificate and build some camaraderie and teamwork among their fellow inmates which will serve them well when they return to society."
Randy Regan, who heads the Palmetto Unified School District which oversees education among the inmates, also likes the idea.
"Participating in activities like music education helps inmates improve themselves which will ultimately reduce recidivism," Reagan said. "This is the primary purpose of correctional education."
As the concert band program evolves, plans call for expanding it to qualifying inmates from other institutions. Osterlund says a separate string orchestral program directed toward the population at Camille Griffith Graham Women's Correctional Institution in Columbia is also under consideration. The concert band will be expected to prepare musical programs that will be open to inmates and the community.
If you or someone you know is interested in donating used band instruments in good condition to the SCDC Concert Band program, you may contact Chaplain Roberts at (803) 896-8504 or by email at firstname.lastname@example.com.