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Resuming the debate adjourned on April 4, 2012, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:
Bill 13, An Act to amend the Education Act with respect to bullying and other matters / Projet de loi 13, Loi modifiant la Loi sur l'éducation en ce qui a trait à l'intimidation et à d'autres questions.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?
Ms. Sylvia Jones: Thank you, Speaker, and good morning. It is a pleasure to join the debate on Bill 13. I'm happy to rise today and to comment on such an important issue.
As we know, over the last number of years, the need for serious anti-bullying initiatives in Ontario has become particularly urgent, and as a parent, I've seen it first-hand. I've seen it with my peers, my friends as they talk about what they have to deal with in the school system, and so I'm pleased, actually, that we're trying to bring forward some legislation here that will try to deal with it.
Therefore, let me say that I must commend both the Minister of Education and my colleague from Kitchener for bringing forth legislation. It is clearly an attempt on both of their parts—and I know that my colleagues in the NDP caucus have also been active on it—to try to deal with an issue that is not an easy fix. I think if we've seen one thing in this debate, it's that there is no easy fix for how we're going to deal with bullying in our schools, in our society.
Much to my and I think every other parent's frustration, bullying seems to have mutated in recent years to something far more vicious than any of us would have been used to or seen when we went through the school system. It's truly saddening to consider the many new forms of torment that children are suffering and do suffer at the hands of a bully, particularly as we widen our social circles with Facebook and other electronic forms of communication, which, while they have a benefit of widening our circle of interest, also have an ability to—how shall I say?—do the pile-on very quickly, and that's where bullying has taken on a very different form in today's society.
The very word "bully" used to be associated with lost lunch money and broken sandcastles. Of course, now we know of far too many examples where it has a much more sinister association. Cyberbullying, text threats, vicious beatings and highly hateful discrimination are now commonly associated with bullying, and rightfully so, Speaker, because these heinous things do occur and bullying does often reach these extremes. While awareness of this fact is critical, it's also equally imperative that action complements awareness. The members of this House, Speaker, must act to combat bullying in our schools and make sure that every Ontario child is happy going to school in the morning and as well when they are coming home in the afternoon.
I think it's fitting at this time to take note of one member in particular who has worked very hard to both raise awareness about and put an end to bullying in our schools. The member of which I speak, of course, is Elizabeth Witmer, the MPP for Kitchener–Waterloo. As a former teacher, board chair, critic and Minister of Education, Mrs. Witmer has brought a great deal of wisdom and expertise to this debate on bullying, and I would urge, encourage in any way possible, that we incorporate and we listen to that depth of knowledge that we have sitting on this side.
Simply because we are on this side of the House does not mean that we do not have any ideas, and if there is an example of it right now, it is the private member's bill that Mrs. Witmer took three years to debate, to discuss, to have consultation with before she was prepared to put it into the chamber and debate. I guess I am disappointed that the Minister of Education hasn't accepted that offer of assistance, accepted that offer of help from the member from Kitchener–Waterloo, because I think there's a lot to be gained there, and it is not for a partisan reason. It is not for a political gain. It is, quite frankly, because she wants to help and because she wants to make it better for all students in our school system.
Before the constituency week, we heard the member from Nepean–Carleton, our education critic, relate some terribly heart-wrenching stories of her friends, the Hubley family, who tragically lost their son Jamie to the senseless, heartless persecution that too often characterizes bullying today. Speaker, as my friend and fellow member said so graciously, we owe it to the Hubleys and every family in Ontario touched by these cruel actions to prevent these kinds of tragedies from ever occurring again. After hearing the story of Jamie and the many other children who suffer needlessly, I'd be shocked if there was even one member left in this chamber who thought Ontario students don't need legislation preventing that kind of brutality.
This brings me to the legislation before us. About four months ago, there were two competing bills introduced in this chamber back to back. The Liberal government introduced Bill 13, and the PC opposition, through the member from Kitchener–Waterloo, introduced Bill 14. While these bills are greatly different in their approach, they were born of the same positive and noble intention, namely that never again in our province should a student feel so isolated, so alone, so depressed as a result of bullying that they should do the unthinkable and take their own life. It is unfortunate, Speaker, that, yes, there may be some extreme cases, and the fact that if even one of these tragedies occurs, that we didn't try to prevent it. If there was ever a time or a subject to unite, to unify the provinces in this chamber, this should be it.
I've studied both bills and I've listened to the competing arguments and I have great respect for the authors of both bills for their passion, their enthusiasm and their dedication. But in my mind, Bill 14 takes a more comprehensive approach to eliminating bullying once and for all across Ontario. It is for this reason that I honestly believe Bill 14 is a superior bill to the one that we are debating here this morning, and I really do hope that there will be a—how shall I say?—meeting of the minds so that we can incorporate some of the positive ideas that my colleague from Kitchener–Waterloo has brought forward in her Bill 14, to be incorporated or replaced into Bill 13.
For example, in Bill 14, the definition of the actual word "bullying" is more thorough than in Bill 13, since it focuses on what constitutes bullying and how it affects the victim. I feel this is a more radical approach as opposed to focusing on the reason for bullying, which is relative.
Bill 14, by design, includes all conceivable reasons a child may be bullied. Moreover, it also takes into account the wide-ranging effects bullying has on the victim, the bully themselves, the school environment, the education process and the family.
This comprehensive nature is also reflected in Bill 14's specific focus on cyberbullying, something Bill 13 is lacking. In today's day and age, we are constantly exposed to information 24 hours a day, and no one more so than our children. While this is often touted as a benefit of modern society, the dark side of this connectivity is that it means bullying can often become a 24-hour affair that very quickly escalates and gets out of control.
Bill 13 mentions cyberbullying in passing; however, it comes to nowhere near the thoroughness of Bill 14's definition, which defines cyberbullying as creating an anonymous webpage, impersonating another person, communicating material to more than one person or posting material on an electronic medium that can be accessed by more than one person.
After reviewing Bill 13, I've noted it requires school boards to issue biannual surveys to students in order to collect information on the success of boards' policies and plans. This information, however, is for internal board use only. I guess what frustrates me is that it seems to be another process-oriented idea where we have more paperwork and more surveys to fill out, and yet we're not actually dealing with the issue faced in front of us.
I know that my time is coming to a close, but it does remind me of another issue that we have before the chamber, and that, of course, is the frustration where we are trying to get into the process of what is happening at Ornge. For that reason, I must call for adjournment of the debate until we get the select committee on Ornge.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Dufferin–Caledon has requested adjournment of the debate. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard a no.
All those in favour, say "aye."
All those not in favour, say "no."
I believe the noes have it.
Call in the members. This will be a 30-minute bell.
The division bells rang from 0913 to 0943.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): I'd ask all members to take their seats. Order. I'd ask all members to take their seats.
Ms. Jones has moved adjournment of the debate.
All those in favour will rise and remain standing to be counted.
All those opposed will please rise and remain standing to be counted.
The Clerk of the Assembly (Ms. Deborah Deller): The ayes are 28; the nays are 36.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): I declare the motion lost.
Further debate?
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Oh, are you? Okay.
Questions and comments?
Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It sounds like you're suffering from the same voice issue others are.
It's a pleasure to rise and speak to this bill. I certainly would ask both my friends from the Liberal Party and my friends from the Progressive Conservatives that they work together so that we can see this bill moving forward, because that's what their children need. This is not about us. This is about our children, and this is about the safety of our children in our schools. We should be together at committee looking at both bills. There are strengths in both.
I also want to take this opportunity to give a shout out to the trans community, who had a historic victory yesterday in the Supreme Court of Ontario, who ruled that they do not have to have sex-reassignment surgery to be considered a trans person. That's good. We have more work to do on that file.
But here's the bullying bill. The bullying bill needs to move forward. Unfortunately, because of other issues pressing, it's not. I would hope that both the minister, who brought in Bill 13, and of course the member from Kitchener–Waterloo, Liz Witmer, who brought in Bill 14, could get together and speak and make this happen. That's my ardent wish, and my ardent wish is the wish of the LBGT community, and it is the wish of our schools, including OECTA, the Ontario English Catholic Teachers' Association. Shout outs to them, because everyone who is concerned about our children is concerned about their safety.
We need something in place by September. To get it in place by September we need to get it to committee now. That's our fervent belief in the New Democratic Party, and Andrea Horwath's fervent belief. We hope that both the members opposite and the members next to us share in that belief for the future of our students. Thank you.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The Minister of Education.
Hon. Laurel C. Broten: Thank you very much, Speaker. I want to use my time that I have to speak today to encourage my friends on the opposite side of the House to join with us in our endeavour to see this bill passed so that we can have it in place in schools before September.
We are committed to working with our colleagues in opposition to make this legislation as strong as possible. I'm pleased to tell this House that I have been in touch with MPP Witmer. I have sent her a letter with a long list of items that we'd like to include in the Accepting Schools Act from Bill 14. But I want to be clear that it is imperative that the procedural games in the House end so that this bill can go to committee, so that we can hear from Ontarians, so that we can see this legislation in our schools in September.
Ontario students depend on us in this Legislature to be responsible, to understand that they need to be safe in our schools, to make this bill as strong as possible. I can tell you, Madam Speaker, that we're absolutely committed to doing that. Both bills raise important, important issues, and we look forward to working. But I do want to say that it is absolutely critical that we acknowledge that Bill 13 speaks widely to the issues that students face in our schools.
I just want to take the last moments that I have to read a section from the preamble, just so that Ontarians watching today will know what the bill is about: "Recognize that a whole-school approach is required and that everyone—government, educators, school staff, parents, students and the wider community—has a role to play in creating a positive school climate, preventing inappropriate behaviour such as bullying, sexual assault, gender-based violence and incidents based on homophobia."
We believe that all students have the right to have a school climate that is safe and accepting for us. That's what Bill 13 speaks to. I hope that we will be able to see this debate conclude and move on and get this bill in our schools to where it needs to be so that Ontario students are protected.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. The member for Durham.
Mr. John O'Toole: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the member from Dufferin–Caledon. I think she brought a very balanced commentary to Bill 13, paying respect, of course, to the member from Kitchener–Waterloo on Bill 14. It's in that spirit of co-operation that I think both sides of the House are trying to move forward to end bullying. But even the tone this morning of the Minister of Education, who's here, the ultimatum kind of minister I call her—she's given that same thing to the teacher unions, the sort of "my way or the highway"—that's sort of like a bullying culture that I'm starting to pick up. I think it's critical that she says that we do have this in place, but she's not really clearly explaining the motive for the procedural wrangling here.
The government and the opposition passed a motion in this House that there would be a select committee. That select committee would be on Ornge. Now, she's leaving the impression that this is about Bill 13. It's not about that at all. It's about Ornge and the waste and scandalous spending on an issue; we insist there be a select committee.
For the clarification of the minister trying to leave the impression that procedural wrangling here was based on Bills 13 and 14, it's not at all. It's based on the inability of the Liberal government, under Premier McGuinty, to deal fairly with the people. In fact, on that bill there, they're bullying us. They really are. They won't have a select committee. They're using all sorts of procedural standing order issues, with their House leader carrying the sword.
But getting back to Bill 13, I would put on the table that we all respect the fact that there should be opposition totally to any form of bullying. That's a given. We have to find a compromise here to make this happen, and I would put on the table the Ontario Catholic School Trustees' document Respecting Difference. I think that's a very good starting point, that we could have an agreement and move forward, as the minister suggests we should.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Comments and questions.
Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I'm glad to be here this morning and I want to congratulate the member from Dufferin–Caledon on her 10-minute thoughts on the anti-bullying Bill 13.
In her speech, she recognized the efforts of the Minister of Education and also the efforts of the member for Kitchener–Waterloo. I think recognizing the fact that two members have brought the same concerns over the same issue should make us think that we need to work together on this bill, improving Bill 13. I think Bill 14, which the member from Kitchener–Waterloo brought forward, has a lot of valid points and I think they really need to be looked at when it goes to committee—Bill 13—to incorporate some of these great ideas.
We also, the NDP, the New Democrats, have a lot of feedback that we can offer into Bill 13.
Bullying, of course, has come from the time when we went to school, escalated to the time that it is here today. One of those things is the cyberbullying, and cyberbullying needs to be addressed, which is one of the items in Bill 14 that was brought forward. I think that's something that really needs to be looked at. Bullying under cyberbullying is basically a faceless act and it can hurt. Words sometimes hurt more than actions for children.
So I encourage the government to work together. This, to me, is the purest of issues, a nonpartisan issue. We all have children, we all have family that we certainly don't want this to have a negative impact on—bullying. So to make this a better environment in our schools, let's work together in the House so that we can set the tone that we are going to work together to help eliminate bullying.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member for Dufferin–Caledon has two minutes to respond.
Ms. Sylvia Jones: Thank you, Speaker, and thank you to the members from High Park, Durham, London–Fanshawe and the minister.
I must focus my comments on what the minister chose to speak of. She used words like "have this bill passed," "procedural games." Well, quite frankly, Minister, those procedural games are us making our point. They are clearly laid out in the standing orders. We have every right to do it. It's called the will of the Legislature. We voted to ensure that Ornge go to a select committee and to start looking at what the issues are. We need to find out what is going on at Ornge. And the fact that you're using "procedural games" as your response to Bill 13 and Bill 14, I find quite offensive.
What I would like to see is for the minister to stand up and say what kind of discussions she's had with the member from Kitchener–Waterloo. You don't need to send a letter. She's right there. You could actually have a meeting and have a meeting of the minds, because there are some excellent ideas in Bill 14. If you would only open your ears and listen instead of only talking and saying, "We must do it this way because we're Liberals and we're the smart ones"—it doesn't work that way. We're legislators; we all come here with good ideas. If you would start listening instead of just talking, you might actually come forward with some positive suggestions and we could solve this issue.
You and I are both mothers, and we know what's happening in our classrooms, we know what's happening in our arenas, in our communities, and for heaven's sakes, let's try to solve it. And you need to solve it not by writing letters but by actually sitting down and talking to someone who has done the research, who has spoken to the school boards, who has spoken to the principals and the schools and the parents, and I just wish you would do that now.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further debate?
Mr. Todd Smith: It's an honour to rise today to speak to Bill 13. I'd like to congratulate the member from Dufferin–Caledon and her passion when it comes to this issue and the fact that what the Minister of Education said was completely bogus and did not deal at all with what we've been fighting for, which is a select committee on Ornge. That's something that the government has ignored, despite the fact that the Minister of Health, on probably 12 or 15 different occasions in this House, said she would do what the will of the House was and we would move forward with a select committee on Ornge. I'll get back to Ornge in a moment.
I have listened with great interest as several of my colleagues have risen in the House to speak both to this bill and to Bill 14, which the House passed some three weeks ago, four weeks ago, something like that. There has been a lot of contentious debate in the House on this issue; there are a lot of good reasons and bad reasons for that. On an issue like bullying, that impacts our kids every day at school, this shouldn't be a contentious issue here in the Legislature, but it has become that way because of the political games that have been played by the current government.
I have no doubt that there are members of every party in the House who are genuinely interested in combating the bullying epidemic. There are a lot of parents who are here in the House and have been speaking on this. There are a lot of former teachers who are here and know the situation in our schools. Madam Speaker, I remember listening to the member for Trinity–Spadina in the House just a couple of weeks ago as he gave a rather passionate analysis of both bills alongside each other and which one had nothing in it—the government bill—and which one was comprehensive, and that would be Bill 14, put forward by my colleague here in the Progressive Conservative caucus, Elizabeth Witmer, from Kitchener.
It has been speeches like the one given by the member from Trinity–Spadina that show that there is a difference between these two bills, and there is a very serious matter at hand here that has to be dealt with. There are three-plus years', or two-plus years', anyway, worth of research and thought that went into the bill that Liz Witmer put forward, and I don't know how much went into the bill that the current government has put forward, but by the flimsy nature of it, it doesn't seem like a lot has gone into it.
When the issues are big enough and pervasive enough, we are actually capable of overcoming our differences in this House, and we have many differences, and that's obvious.
What is discouraging to me is that this bill is rather typical of the way the government has crafted policy over much of the last eight years. This government has used policy as a way of saying that some people in Ontario are just a little more important than others. Nobody on the other side seems willing to say why a kid who's bullied because of their weight or a kid who's bullied because of their race or religion or economic class is any less worthy of special protection or special designation by the government. That's because they aren't; all kids should be treated as equals.
When you're a parent, as I am of two young daughters, and your kid is being bullied, which one of my daughters was in school, you want to do everything you can to protect them. You want them to be safe at school. You want them to be safe on the school bus when they're on their way to school. Unfortunately for my daughter, when she was in grade 1, she didn't have that safety. She was bullied. And she's a wonderful, normal young girl who did absolutely nothing to provoke any kind of bullying, but that's the nature of bullying. Sometimes it doesn't need a reason or an excuse. So it's very frustrating to me to see the way that the political games are being played with this legislation right now. Why not go with the best bill possible to give the teachers and the educators and the administrators the weapons and the information and the tools that they need to combat bullying in our schools?
It's inconceivable to me and to any parent that someone wouldn't see their child the way a mom or dad sees them. Of course, as I sit here as a father of two, I can't understand why other people wouldn't see that these are children and they need to be protected.
As I said in my past speakings here in the Legislature, I'm a long-time coach of young people, young girls in particular, when it comes to hockey and, in the past, soccer and baseball. We teach them to stand up for themselves. We give them confidence, and I think the same thing should be happening in our schools right now. They need to have the tools at their disposal, the administrators and teachers and the principals, to ensure that our children are safe and that they are given the space that they need to thrive in our schools.
As I said, Madam Speaker, this is not atypical of the way, though, that this government does business by and large here in this House. The people in this House have heard me talk about Prince Edward county in the past, which is in my riding. The county is the perfect example of exactly how divisive this government's policies are. For some reason, when we're talking about power projects, the citizens in Mississauga are just a little bit more important to this government and worthy of more protection than the citizens of Prince Edward county are. We saw that illustrated perfectly in the last election. Even in the county itself, the project has proven to be an instrument of division there. There are families in the county that go back to the 18th century. In parts of the county, knowing someone's last name is often enough to know if their family is from South Marysburgh or Sophiasburgh ward. As it has with this bill, though, the government has used policy as an instrument of division, and that's what it's aimed to be: an instrument of division in this House.
It's hard, Madam Speaker, for me to stand up in the House and lend any support to legislation whose chief accomplishment is to tell one group of people that they're more important and more deserving of protection than another group of, in this case, children. All kids are worthy of protection from bullies.
In the Quinte region, we've been fortunate to have some great parents who stepped up and made this an issue for our community. What we're here to do, and I believe that every member of the House has an interest in this, is to ensure that we're not here again any time soon to discuss a tragedy like one that my friend the member from Nepean–Carleton spoke about a few weeks ago, when she discussed what happened to the young figure skater named Jamie Hubley. I legitimately believe that there is a genuine interest on behalf of everyone in this House to prevent another kid and another family from going through that kind of ordeal.
I do know that back in the Quinte region today, administrators at the Hastings and Prince Edward school board have formed a partnership with the Hastings and Prince Edward Learning Foundation. They're actually having an anti-bullying symposium for all the secondary schools in our region. Tonight, they're having a cyberparenting 101, which is parenting the always-on generation, which infers the fact that our kids are always on because they're always on the Internet, it seems, and there's a lot of cyberbullying going on there, of course. The special presentation is taking place tonight at Quinte Secondary School for parents from 7 until 9. Then tomorrow, there's actually a symposium that's taking place at Quinte Secondary School for students and staff in partnership with the learning foundation as well, and it's taking place all day tomorrow from 8:30 until 5. The keynote address there is "Virtual World-Real Consequences" by Bill Belsey, who's the president of the bullying.org site on the Internet and cyberbullying.org as well.
As I say, it is an important issue that is being dealt with at the local level by parents, by our Hastings and Prince Edward Learning Foundation and by our school board. But what we need to do here in the Legislature of Ontario is get this legislation passed so that we can actually get things moving in the right direction and give the administrators the tools that they need.
That's why I insist that Bill 14 is the right way to go. It's a far more comprehensive anti-bullying bill. It focuses on prevention, accountability and awareness. Bill 14, put forward by Liz Witmer, provides students, parents and educators with a strategy to raise awareness and prevent bullying, as well as the process to resolve it. It also collects data and reports to the ministry. The Liberal bill, unfortunately, does none of these things. That's why we need to see some real action by the Minister of Education and Liz Witmer in merging Bills 13 and 14 and putting them together in one large, comprehensive bill that can actually do the job that all of us I think believe is the appropriate thing to do, and that's do what we can to end bullying in our schools.
Madam Speaker, I'd also like to tell the House quickly about Mary. She's a 10-year-old at Parkdale public school who took her campaign against bullying to the local press. The Belleville Intelligencer did a story about a month ago as this whole debate was starting. Mary was picked on because some other kids thought she was a tomboy. She actually went into a washroom at the school and pulled down her pants so the other kids could see that she wasn't a boy and she was in fact a girl. These are the kinds of things that are occurring in our schools and these are the kinds of things that need to come to an end quickly.
We also need to get an end to this whole Ornge debacle. We need to form a select committee and have it formed now, and that's why I am moving adjournment of the debate.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Mr. Smith has moved adjournment of the debate. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?
All those opposed, say "nay."
In my opinion, the ayes have it.
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Blog Archives
Word from the Queen Camp
Just thought I would post a follow up to my previous entry there……
I sent a message to the Queen fan club the other day just to voice my support of a tour and reminding them that they would need to make a stop somewhere in the northeastern states just for me 😉 In any case, one of the things I've always loved about the QFC is that the woman who runs it is just the coolest and will actually take the time to write back to you – I never really expect it, but she always does…..I just think that's a wonderful way to run things.
Rumor has it…..
Ohmuhgah! Ohmuhgah!! Oh My Freakin' God!!!!!!
I heard the absolute coolest thing on the radio today!!! I was driving home from work listening to one of the classic rock stations here in Philly and they played "Bohemian Rhapsody" – yay for me, right? Well, when it was over, they said that word is that Queen is planning a reunion tour with George Michael singing lead!
I have yet to catch my breath 🙂
I mean who the hell cares about George Michael – it is freakin' Queen!! I can deal with George as long as I get to see the rest of the gang….yes, thank you I am quite aware that it just won't be the same thing without Freddie but I don't care!
I am entirely too excited about this……..I know it's either gonna turn out that it is in fact just a rumor or that they are going to tour, but it will only be a European tour and that would totally suck ass. I would literally just die!
See you all don't quite understand this obsession that I had (have) with Queen….I mean I was a real nutter. For about 4 years, I really think I listened to no one else! I was head over heels in love with John Deacon (the bass player) and wrote him religiously. I actually wish that I had kept copies of those letters because they would make quite the journal entries……I don't know why I thought he'd want to listen to the incessant babble of a 16 year old girl but, whatever…..
On the plus side, at least he did write back now and again……….
Oh, God….PLEEEEEEEASE let it be true! Please just let me see this guys play once in my life!!
You just don't know how badly I want this…………..
….and hippopotamuses like me, too….
I've been trying to download Brittany's current favorite Christmas song for the last 45 minutes.
Why? Because when she woke up she decided that she needed to hear it. So Mama has to sing it. I sing three lines and then she wants to sing a different part, sing that part then I have to go back and sing it over six times and then she wants to hear the part I was singing to begin with………
[gritting my teeth as I smile really big]
Needless to say, I am more than a little annoyed. Guns 'N Roses never played. And, oh boy, let me tell you about the fun.
We got to the First Union Center at 7:00. We had seats in a Party Suite so we went in the VIP entrance and right up to the room. At 7:30, some local rock band came on and made alot of noise….at 8, they went away. At 8:30, Mix Master Mike came out and was on for no less than one whole hour! Rumor was that Axl was watching the Lakers game and wasn't coming out till it was over……
Mix Master Mike went away and we waited. And waited. And waited. They were playing music over the PA system and every time a song ended, everyone started to cheer thinking that the band would be taking the stage. By 10:30, people were getting pissed and cursing and booing.
When they came out at about 10:45 and started taking the stage apart – not having made any kind of announcements, mind you – people started throwing shit. Fortunately being in the suite, we weren't in danger of being hit with anything so we actually sat and watched for a bit.
The floor was trashed….literally, since the threw all the trashcans at the stage. Then they ripped up all those chairs and tossed them around for a while. Then someone threw a chair down from the balcony seats above us. Like I said, we were in a box with a roof over us, but we still decided it was time to go.
We left before most of the crowd did but just after they made an announcement about refunds, but because of all the noise no one could tell if they said "no refunds" or "call for refunds" so I have to call TicketMaster today to find out.
I want:
– The ticket price back
– Our parking money
– The cost of the clothes we bought just for the show refunded
– And the money Bill lost by using 8 hours holiday time to go to the show
And I want it now! Yeah, right. I seriously doubt that they are giving refunds, but I'm calling anyway.
We were able to get back out the VIP entrance and back to the car without running into any nit-wits and we picked up Brittany and got back here by about 12:15.
Hey, Axl!! Listen, hon….you don't have that much of a grip on people this time around to start pulling this shit already. And it's really bad form to do it for the first show in a city…..if you actually show up for the performance on Sunday, I predict a record low crowd number.
Oh, yeah….don't forget to duck. You're in Philly, sweetie – we like to throw shit at losers.
Fuckin' A, man!! I was soooooo looking forward to that show!!!
Guns 'N Roses
I'm goin' to see Guns 'N Roses tonight – whoo-hoo!!!!

subset: commoncrawl


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Security guards "use force illegally" on homeless, Pivot Legal Society reports
Pivot Legal Society has released a long-awaited and damning report on private security in Vancouver.
Titled Security Before Justice: A Study of the Impacts of Private Security on Homelessness and Under-housed Vancouver Residents, the report begins by noting that in Vancouver, the growth of the private security industry has vastly outstripped that of public police forces. According to the report, the number of private security guards in the city grew by 300 percent between 1991 and 2005.
"There are now at least twice as many private police as public police," the report claims.
A number of "central issues" related to the growth of the private security industry are identified early in the report.
Pivot's study claims that homeless and under-housed people are unusually likely to have frequent and relatively problematic interactions with security guards.
The report found that private security guards "routinely overstep the bounds of their authority on public property" and that "profiling" on behalf of security guards results in the harassment of homeless and visibly poor people. Aboriginal people, the mentally ill, and drug addicts are allegedly especially affected.
"Private security guards use force illegally," the report also stated. "Both survey respondents and focus group participants claimed that guards are using force and threats of violence against homeless and other marginalized people on a routine basis."
Pivot's study is based on survey information collected from 154 Downtown Eastside residents and two follow-up focus groups.
Many statistics in the report taken from those surveys point to allegedly widespread problems.
The report states that roughly 50 percent of respondents' interactions with private security guards are happening on city streets. Street are public spaces where private security guards have no more authority than the citizens they are interacting with.
The study also found that 59 percent of the homeless people surveyed said they had been asked to leave a public space and that 51 percent of homeless participants in the study have four or more encounters with security guards a month.
The report states: "This study focuses on the experiences of those most on the margins of society, but it raises issues that should alarm anyone committed to democratic policing, accountable governance and respect for human rights."
Included in the report are several recommendations for how the City of Vancouver could reverse negative trends in private policing.
In the report, Pivot Legal Society recommends that there be a moratorium on the moving of homeless people from public spaces; that public funding for private policing cease until certain issues are addressed; and that a "strong system of accountability" for private security be implemented.
In December 2007, the City of Vancouver approved $872,000 be spent to expand the Downtown Ambassadors program, which is operated by Genesis Security and sees private security guards patrol many areas of Downtown Vancouver.
You can follow Travis Lupick on Twitter at twitter.com/tlupick.
8 Comments
Nov 27, 2008 at 11:52am
Interesting that Pivot says it wants to get rid of private security companies, but, not the "public" security guards at Carnegie Centre who have committed civil liberties violations for years. Let's be perfectly clear here: Pivot and Eby will only help those who support CUPE, Vision or the NDP. Everyone else is a potential target of Pivot's and Eby's political mudslinging operation.
General Zod
Nov 27, 2008 at 1:07pm
As Security Director for a well known local company i would like to add something to this discussion.
I have several guards in the areas listed within the article and, as a result, have encountered several situations with DTES residents. Some of the situations have been to the fault of the guards but most are not. The article fails to accept any of blame for issues that arise from public disorder, public drunkenness, drug dealing, assault and vagrancy. I do not condone the aggressive behaviour exhibited by some guards and some companies but it must be addressed that a large portion of the problem comes from the attitudes of people who have very little respect for any request by any figure of authority.
A good solution to this: don't smash windows, urinate on doorways, assault people who refuse to give change, get drunk in public, throw things at security guards or judge guards based on their occupation.
Also, who were these 154 residents? Do they have criminal records? What is their status within the DTES community? This information should be considered when analyzing the information.
Travis Lupick
Nov 27, 2008 at 1:27pm
"The article fails to accept any of blame for issues that arise from public disorder, public drunkenness, drug dealing, assault and vagrancy."
This article is a summary of Pivot Legal's report. The report did not discuss issues that arise from public disorder.
Areas that the report did cover that were not discussed in the article include: the regulation of public space, the legal powers of security guards, private security and the police, the regulations and training of the security industry, and public funding of private security.
The above issues were not discussed in the story because they have been written on in the Straight in the past.
Pivot's full report on private security can be found here.
Private police, a cover story from October 2007
Dow... Ambassadors security training questioned
Business Improvement Associations differ on ambassadors
<a href="http://www.straight.com/article-125299/npa-pushes-downtown-ambassadors-f... pushes Downtown Ambassadors funding through council
Nov 28, 2008 at 12:14pm
"...it must be addressed that a large portion of the problem comes from the attitudes of people who have very little respect for any request by any figure of authority."
General Zod, how is a Downtown Ambassador a "figure of authority"? To whom??
Nov 28, 2008 at 1:58pm
Anyone who wants to employ security guards can easily get around the provincial legislation that regulates security guards. All they have to do is hire unlicensed security guards. For example, licensed security guards aren't allowed to carry handcuffs, let alone use them. But unlicensed security guards are allowed to carry and use handcuffs.
The Pivot report mentions that Vancouver police provide peoples' names and dates of birth to private security guards, or in other cases VPD allow security guards to record the info while police are questioning people. This matches my own experience. Three VPD officers made me give my name, home address and birth date to two unlicensed security guards who had just handcuffed and assaulted me on a public street.
In addition, Vancouver police interpret the Criminal Code (Section 494 (1) and (2), regarding the right of citizens' arrest) to mean that security guards have the right to handcuff and detain someone on a public street for no better reason than a vague, unsubstantiated allegation of "suspicion." A layman can see that this interpretation is not only mistaken but also dangerous. Yet that's the interpretation the VPD use. The Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner agrees with the VPD on this.
Greg Klein
Nov 28, 2008 at 2:16pm
Maybe it's time we stopped using public funds to fund Pivot? I live in Gastown where I have been spit at, sworn at, had crack addicts run circles around me demanding money, been chased down the hallway by a crack addicted neighbour and had to step over human waste to get to my door. It's a nightmare.
I depend on those security guards and they do a great job. I have never seen them harass anyone. But then, I guess these poor homeless types think being asking to please not crap on the doorstep is harassment.
I would rather have my money go to security to ensure my safety in my neighbourhood than to a legal society that has gone so far left they can't see that taxpayers and people who do contribute to society have some rights too!
Tommy Douglas would roll right over in his grave if he realized what social programs have come to mean in this day and age.
Social programs were meant as a short-term safety net for hard working Canadians who found themselves falling on hard times or for the 'less fortunate' who were unable to support themselves. Less fortunate did not and does not mean drug addicts who have caused their own situation. It was never meant as a sustainable lifestyle. Members who want to be part of a thriving society must at least attempt to contribute to it.
Oh I know that these poor drug addicts have all sorts of very good reasons for being drug addicts but let's face it, not everyone who had a bad childhood is a drug addict and malingerer now are they? No, it's just the ones who don't want to work.
Mack asked General Zod, how is a Downtown Ambassador a "figure of authority"? To whom??
I'll tell you whom Mack, to me and every other hard working individual in the community! Why should I have to come home every day and walk past the same guy who vomits and craps all over my sidewalk telling me to F off? We all should have the authority to tell that guy to get out of the neighbourhood and get a job! And don't say there are no jobs, there are jobs if you want them. I have 2 jobs. My daughter has two jobs and is in full time school. In fact I don't know anyone who wants to work that doesn't right now.
Our homeless problem is a self fulfilling prophecy. Keep pandering to it and it will inevitably become a bigger problem. Maybe if the money trough stopped some of the homeless would get a job! What a novel idea...contribute to the society they say they want so desperately to belong to...how about that for a change?
Maybe Pivot could do a study with my peace of mind, my mental health and my security in mind instead of constantly pandering to a bunch of drug addicts and thieves!
With all the recent plant closures and company layoffs, we might need that social safety net to help those that will really deserve it. Then we'll need more security guards to defend us against all the druggies smashing car windows to scratch up a bit of change for their next fix.
Feb 8, 2010 at 3:50pm
There is an easy answer to this so called problem, Teach everyone with the issue to this what public property is and what private property with public acsess is.....then you may understand why security has the right to remove people from these places.
Berg, Esq.
Sep 6, 2010 at 10:55am
>> As Security Director for a well known local company
What local company? Well-known by whom?
>> i would like to add something to this discussion.
By "adding" to the discussion, General Zoo is sidestepping the issue and trying to change the subject.
Due to his employment history, it's obvious where his loyalties are: he's WITH the GUARDS.
Due to his statements, it's also obvious he's AGAINST the PUBLIC (i.e. the residents of Vancouver).
>> A good solution to this: don't smash windows,
>> urinate on doorways, assault people who refuse
>> to give change, get drunk in public, throw things
>> at security guards or judge guards based on
>> their occupation.
By "adding" to the discussion he's not adding anything of value. What he's REALLY adding is the implication that the ILLEGAL actions of GUARDS is A) no issue (in his opinion) and B) perfectly acceptable (to him), as long as he and his company can blame it on YOU (i.e. the residents of Vancouver).


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Lisa Owen interviews David Parker
Lisa Owen interviews Labour's deputy leader and finance spokesperson David Parker
Labour to broaden Reserve Bank targets beyond inflation and introduce "new tools" to get current account deficit under control
Parker reveals he'll propose "one big new tool" and in addition allow the Bank to apply existing tools differently.
Asked if Labour will ask the Reserve Bank to target employment, says "it might not be that blunt"
Says value of New Zealand dollar should drop 5-15%; a 15% drop in the Kiwi would put $9 billion back into our economy
Commits Labour to raising superannuation age from 65: "So we're willing to raise it... It's got to move"
Asked if Labour will negotiate super eligibility to get a coalition deal with New Zealand First, Parker says: "I don't compromise my values"
Parker: "You don't negotiate these things in advance of an election..."
Owen: "So it is negotiable then"
Parker: "No I didn't say that"
Owen: "So it's your bottom line?"
Parker: "I didn't say that".
LVRs aren't working and Labour would rather limit them to just Auckland
LVRs "certainly not necessary" in Dunedin, for example. "Why should our economy be hobbled? Why should our young people be prevented from buying houses" because of Auckland house prices
Labour's deputy leader says Shane Jones is "a loss to us" but people vote for the party not individuals
The Nation on TV3, 9.30am Saturdays and 10am Sundays.
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Lisa Owen: Welcome, first off though I would address the issue of Shane Jones. Now he's departed in possibly the worst way, as I said, lobbed a grenade into the Labour nest and wandered off. How could it be any worse for you?
David Parker: Well obviously we'd like to have stayed but no, really, people in the end don't vote for me or for Shane Jones or David Cunliffe, they vote for the Labour Party, because we attach the issues that are important to like the ones we are talking today that affect house prices and the like. So although Shane is a loss to us, National suffered the loss of Simon Power last time. He was number five in their caucus, said to be their next leader. We carry on; other people step up as the likes of Kelvin Davis will.
But if you're a voter who's sitting at home in Waitakere, or Gisborne , or anywhere in the country, you don't look like a government in waiting, do you?
You know the polls at the moment have a less than five percent gap between National and Labour and the Greens. Five percent. Two and a half percent swing towards us and we are ahead. This election is going down to the wire. That's already clear. National know it, that's why we have had the royal tour and golfing with Obama. But actually people don't vote because of golfing with Obama or because of me or Shane Jones. They vote for Labour or National because they think that we are attached to the values that are important to them. And I know the issues that are important to people because they tell me: secure work, decent pay and an affordable house. It's clear that the Labour Party have the policy that address those issues and that's why we are within striking distance of National.
Well let's talk about policy then, monetary policy in particular. On Tuesday you are going to announce what you want to be the changes to the Reserve Bank Act. You want the bank to focus on more than controlling inflation. I just want to refer you to 2011 manifesto where you said "employment, economic prosperity and the health of the export sector are as at least important as inflation rates". So is that your policy now?
Well you will see the details of that on Tuesday but yes, we are going to broaden the objective of the Reserve Bank. Look at what is happening now, last quarter we had zero general inflation in New Zealand, excluding the increase in tax on cigarettes. And yet we have already got higher interest rates than the rest of the developed world, than our competitors. We have got house prices that have gone up forty percent under National and they're saying interest rates are going to go up more. What's the affect of that? As you have already said despite the fact that export prices are going down and we are not covering the cost of our imports and interest, our exchange rate has been jacked up and we are losing jobs in the export sector. We gotta change something.
Well you're a Labour Party so it's a no brainer that one of these targets will involve employment, won't they?
Well you'll have to wait for Tuesday; it might not be that blunt. We are not going to lose the inflation grounding. Inflation control is important. But it is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The end should be high paid jobs, secure work. Too many of our young people are pulling coffees or cleaning the elderly, these are all good jobs, or tucking in tourists. We haven't got enough secure work for our young people. Young people can't afford to buy a house. And I know these issues worry not just young people but their parents.
So if you say it's not going to be as blunt as just jobs, what are you talking about?
You'll have to wait till Tuesday. We have said that we're going to broaden the objectives of the Reserve Bank beyond targeting inflation, with zero general inflation; it's not the only tiger in town to be tamed. You know good ideas have many parents. Winston Peters asked the Greens, we are all on board with this. In fact changes to monetary policy have been proposed twice in this Parliament and went down by one percent. There is broad agreement across the progressive side of politics in New Zealand that we have to do better if we are going to keep our young people in New Zealand: give them jobs and have affordable houses without ridiculously high interest rates.
So if you're going to be in announcing new targets will you be announcing a new tool as well? So at the moment you have inflation as the target, interest rates is the tool, can I expect some more tools?
Yes you can. You can. You can expect that the objective of the Reserve Bank will be broadened, that they'll have new tools to address this challenge of getting New Zealand's current account deficit under control. It is forty years since we paid our way in the world, forty years since we covered the cost of our imports and interest by the value of our exports. You see all these raw logs going offshore, one of the reasons is our monetary policy. It helps keep our interest rates higher than our competitors so our exporters facing a high dollar and high interest rates aren't willing to invest in the plant. We need them to.
How many new tools?
One new tool. And in addition to that because the objective of the bank will change the way in which they apply their existing tools, now I'll give you an example of that. At the moment they change the capital ratios for banks to back their lending based on whether the banking sector is going to fall over, not on whether the housing market's going crazy. Now they'll approach their tool differently if their objectives are broader. We can make a difference here. If we change nothing, nothing is going to change.
Well you raise the housing market because you have, as you pointed out, talked about the fact that there is zero general inflation, that the housing market is what is driving inflation. So how are you going to cool that housing market?
Well look you know at the moment the Reserve Bank is in a corner because the Government's housing policy has just failed in a dramatic way. House prices are up 40 percent under them despite there being close to zero inflation. Well there are a number of things you need. You need to tax the speculators….capital gains tax, you need to build some more affordable houses which the Labour party is going to do. You need to ban foreign purchases and you need to address monetary policy so that you are not jacking up interest rates when they're already the highest, higher than Australia, the United States, China and Europe. But they're out of whack.
So where does the LVR fit into all of this, because previously Labour has been against it applying to first home buyers, so are you going to get rid of that? Because actually it appears to be working-
Well actually no, the bank economists say it has had very little effect. Our criticism of loan to valuation ratios has not been so much directed at the Reserve Bank as the Government. Loan to valuation ratios would not be needed if they were taxing speculators and building affordable homes. The reason that the government doesn't do either of those things if that they back the people that they gave 40 percent of the income tax cuts to. They are playing for the big end of town. This comes back to your earlier questions. Why will people still back Labour the Party despite Shane Jones going? Because we're actually willing to deal with the issues that affect their lives: jobs, housing. National Party, despite the fact that we had 40 percent house inflation, they're not doing anything about it. Not taxing speculators, they're not banning foreign buyers of houses, they're not building any more houses and they're not willing to address interest rates and the exchange rate through monetary policy changes.
So what you are saying is when you bring in these new tools you won't need LVRs?
We'd be less reliant upon them. Whether LVRs or any other tool or interest rate rises or the new tools are applied will always be for an independent Reserve Bank. They will never lose their inflation objective but they will have more flexibility to address these issues in a way that doesn't require them to put as much reliance on things like loan to valuation ratios or jacking up interest rates.
What about regional loan to valuation ratios because everyone is pointing out its Christchurch and Auckland and not everywhere else, so why not target it regionally?
Well that is one issue that I have been critical of the Reserve Bank on because-
Would you consider that?
We have said we would. Yes, I mean it's ridiculous that places that have got no or low house price inflation are caught up in the same rules are Auckland and Christchurch.
So where, Auckland and Christchurch, would they be cities that you would target with the loan to valuation ratio?
Probably primarily Auckland actually. One of the reasons house prices are going up in Christchurch is of course they had an earthquake and it costs more to replace a house than…new houses cost more. The big problem is in Auckland and the answers there lie in building affordable houses. Loan to valuation ratios if they are necessary, certainly not necessary for example where I come from in Dunedin. We haven't got house price inflation there so why should our economy be hobbled? Why should our young people be prevented from buying houses because of the blunt way in which loan to valuation ratios are being applied.
What about the New Zealand dollar? You keep saying it's overvalued, what 86 US cents at the moment. So what do you reckon is the ideal value?
Well the IMF say it's overvalued to the tune of about 15 percent. The Treasury and the Reserve Bank they agree that it's overvalued. Everyone's saying it's overvalued, but no one is willing to do anything about it other than us.
So where do you put it?
Well I'm not going to give you an exact figure. I think the IMF has got it about right.
Well they say between 5 and 15 percent, so it's something that… But let's say the New Zealand dollar was overvalued by 15 percent that means that our exporters at the moment are losing 9 billion dollars per annum. Imagine how many more people they could employ in well paid jobs if they were earning 9 billion dollars per annum more from our exports. It would change the shape of our economy, our young people would have better job prospects and we wouldn't need to jack up interest rates to suppress the housing market if we had things going into those sorts of investments instead of too much money into rental housing.
I want to move onto another financial matter that is close to your heart which is superannuation. So is Labour's position still that you want to raise it to 67? How important is it for you to do that and how important is it for the country?
Look it's the largest growing area of expenditure after health. Under this Government the cost of superannuation in the last five years has gone up by 3 billion dollars per annum. They pretend they're only spending 250 million dollars more per annum and yet they have spent 3 billion dollars more per annum on super alone. No one wants to address the age of superannuation because it's not a popular policy, but a responsible government isn't just populist. You have to protect the sustainability of things that are important to the people that vote for you. And I know that for Labour voters the sustainability of superannuation is essential. So we are willing to raise it with lots of advance notice. It won't start going up till 2020 and then by 2 months a year.
But if you are going to raise it, you're going to need to get Winston Peters on board aren't you and he's not going to want a bar of that?
Well you know I'm not responsible for Winston Peters' policy, I'm responsible for mine. I know that within two years the government spends more on superannuation than they do on education. That is wrong. It already costs more than all benefits combined, plus working for families, plus the accommodation supplement. It's gotta move.
Haven't you just ruled yourself out of government with that stance though? Winston doesn't like it, the Greens are lukewarm on it. You are on your own and you need them.
Well time will tell. Look I don't compromise my values. I stand for the sustainability of important settings. I want enough money to give people a decent education through the state and decent health service. I want to have settings –
But you have to be in power to do that and you need friends to do that.
We do, we do. But you don't negotiate these things in advance of an election. I stand for what the Labour Party stands for, which is fairness for New Zealanders.
So it is negotiable then?
No I didn't say that.
So it's your bottom line then?
I didn't say that. Who was elected…
It's got to be one or the other?
Well actually we don't even know if Winston Peters is going to get back into Parliament. He probably will, but let's wait for the voters to make up their mind who they think we should vote for.
I think that's the perfect place to leave it. Thank you very much for joining us this morning David Parker.


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Think You've Got Horrible Bosses? 7 Tactics to Stay On Their Good Side
Jennifer Aniston plays a mean, man-eating manager in Horrible Bosses, but we all know America's favorite Friend is all sugar. What if your boss really is that brutal? Stay on their good side with these fail-proof pointers.
In Horrible Bosses - in theaters today - three friends fed up with their employers conspire to get rid of each other's awful bosses, permanently. It's a dark, screwball comedy where Aniston steps away from her typical rom-com role to get raunchy, and Jason Bateman, Jason Sudeikis, Charlie Day and Jamie Foxx promise one hilariously misguided murder plot after another. Watch the trailer:
Your overbearing boss may not be blackmailing you into an affair or physically forcing you into alcoholism, but there are managers out there who just don't know how to treat the little people - even when those are the ones who keeping things running smoothly. Feeling under-appreciated, or even abused? We talked to Anita Bruzzese, author of 45 Things That Drive Your Boss Crazy, to find out how you can make your workplace a happy place.
"I don't want to trivialize what it's like to have a horrible boss. I think there are few things in life that are worse than having a horrible boss, including having a toenail fungus," says Bruzzese. "But I do think there are ways to make it more bearable, and that's what many of us have to do until the economy improves and we can all leave our bad bosses behind in the dust." Try these tactics to stay on your supervisor's good side.
What can you do if you have a horrible boss? How can you make the best out of a situation where your supervisor is just not on your side?
In the short-term, I'd enlist some co-workers for some help. Not to murder the boss, of course...but to help watch your back for when the boss is out for blood, or just to go to lunch together and tell bad "knock knock" jokes. Go for a walk on your lunch hour just to break the stress. It's all about changing your perception of your job and how you want to live your life. For long-term help, I'd find a mentor who can give you professional advice or ask to cross-train in another department to get away from the a--hole boss for a while. The key is to take back control of your life and not to end up in a jail cell for offing your manager.
On the other hand, what if your boss is too friendly? How do you maintain a separation between a professional relationship and a personal one?
I think many people are so grateful the boss isn't making their lives miserable that they don't stop to think about the consequences of having the boss get too close. But such a relationship can be just as damaging, if not more so. Such a boss can become really possessive of your time because they feel so personally invested in you. You may begin to make career decisions based not on what you want or need, but what you believe the boss wants or needs.
A key here is to really try and put up some boundaries. That means you have separate private and professional social networking accounts, and let voicemail pick up your phone after hours when the boss calls. I wouldn't respond to personal e-mails or phone calls right away from the boss, but still respond in a timely way to work-related messages. You don't want to be a jerk about it, but there are lots of subtle ways you can let the boss know that you're keeping some things private. So, for example, I wouldn't broadcast your weekend plans at work in front of the boss. It's your responsibility to draw that line in the sand.
How about if your manager is usually pretty decent, but when they get stressed, they take it out on you? Is there an appropriate way to get them to stop using you as their scapegoat?
While your first reaction might be to egg the boss' car, you can't become angry. You've got to learn to think on your feet. When she first starts yelling or blaming you for something, take a deep breath and stay calm. You can ask questions to try and get at the core of the problem and ratchet down the emotion. Try saying something like: "Are you saying the delivery was late? Can you tell me who you talked to so I can trace the records and find a solution?" Don't tell the boss she has an attitude problem unless you really want to make some new friends in the unemployment line.
If your supervisor is unhappy with you and telling other people about it, how can you protect your reputation?
This is when it pays to have built up your reputation capital. If you haven't done it, then you may have to take it on the chin until you do. But here's the key: You should be working on your professional reputation one layer at a time, so that when someone like your boss does take a potshot at it, it still is standing in pretty good shape.
That means you have a blog that shows off your professional expertise; you belong to industry associations where you are a board member or help organize seminars; you provide interesting industry links on Twitter; and post insightful comments and answer questions on LinkedIn. You are a vital part of your professional community and work to build your network so that when one boss makes spiteful comments, it barely makes a dent in your reputation.
Say you messed up at work. What's the best way to make amends and get back on track?
Sincerely apologize right away to those who were affected. Tell them how you're going to fix the mistake - if you can - and the lessons you've learned from it so it doesn't happen again. Then, you're going to have to just suck it up and show that you can be trusted again. There is no rule that says others have to forgive you, so forgive yourself, learn your lesson and move on.
When you need to talk to your manager about something important - a promotion, or maybe a raise - what's the best way to have that conversation work out in your favor?
Do your homework. No one is going to give you a raise or a promotion just because you're putting in extra hours these days and working really hard. Everyone is doing that. You're going to have to show how you're helping the company's bottom line. For example, maybe you found a glitch in the system that was costing the companies thousands of dollars a month. Or you brought in new customers. You've got to have the evidence that you're making a difference. One other thing: Don't back the boss into a corner. Present the reasons you believe you deserve a raise or promotion, then give the boss time to think about it. Don't threaten to leave if you don't get what you want, unless you're ready to back it up and walk out the door. And, in this job market, that's something you may want to think twice about.
What's the number one piece of advice you can share in order for someone to stay on a boss's good side?
If it's important to the boss, it should be important to you.
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Members and stakeholders are invited to Shelter WA's AGM, to hear about key Shelter WA successes for the 2015/16 year as well as participate in the formalities of electing members to the Shelter WA Board for 2016/17.
Natalia Gemmell, Manager, Housing Policy - Market Innovation and Partnership from the Housing Authority, will speak about the development of the Seniors Housing Strategy, of which Shelter WA has been involved, in the broader context of the State Affordable Housing Strategy.
Nominations are called for the following positions on the Shelter WA Board:
- Vice-Chair
- Treasurer
- One (1) Board Position
Organisational and individual members are entitled to nominate for positions on the Board if:
- The individual, or the organisation, has been a financial member of Shelter WA for at least one year; or
- The individual, or the organisation, submits a nomination that includes two signatories of others eligible for election.
To nominate for any of these positions, please complete a Nomination Form and return to the Returning Officer, Sei Hwee Lee by 2pm on Tuesday 11 October at email@example.com. Any nominations received after this time will be invalid.
If you are unable to attend, please complete a Proxy Form so another member can vote on your behalf.
Shelter WA would also like to advise its members on the appointment of Australian Audit for the audit of 2014/15 and 2015/16 financial statements.
Please note, only financial members are eligible to vote at the Shelter WA AGM. Please confirm your membership status with Shelter WA prior to the Nomination Closing Time.
Places are limited for the AGM. Please confirm your attendance by RSVP below or contacting us at firstname.lastname@example.com or (08) 9325 6660.
33 Moore St
East Perth, WA 6004
Google map and directions


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Creating the right environment for your customers in your store or shop unit can correlate directly with creating a profitable retail business.
With this in mind, here at Elegant Decorating we pride ourselves on decorating to exceptionally high standard, as standard for all our retail customers.
We work seamlessly with a range of other trades on all of our retail projects and look to ensure important areas such as point of sale areas, entrances, floors and walls meet a high and precise standard of workmanship.
We are able to offer our services out of hours and dust free sanding to minimize impact on your business.
From small independent stores to major retail outlets, we have experience in delivering outstanding results, at the right price to get the retail space you need for your business to succeed.
We offer a wide range of painting and decorating services for retailers, these include:
We would relish the chance to find out more about your project, so either call us on 0800 999 3232, email us on email@example.com or enquire via our Free Quote form and we will look to be in contact as soon as possible.


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2 Vives 1 room: VR Meetup 8/20/2016
This Saturday 8/20 5 pm-11 pm I'll have my HTC Vive setup at i3 Detroit. What's better than one VR headset? Two VR headsets! My friend will also be bringing his HTC Vive to i3 Detroit. It'll be a VR LAN Party of 2 (for now)! We expect to try out some Hoverjunkers co-op and versus and maybe some co-op Raw Data. If you've been wanting to try out the HTC Vive stop on by i3 Detroit this Saturday. Members and guests are welcome. I'll give periodic tours of the space to people new to i3 Detroit.


text: From March 16-24, twenty-six law enforcement officers from Lao People's Democratic Republic and Thailand underwent an intensive bilateral investigations training course at a major endangered species smuggling corridor. The course focused on investigation techniques to detect ongoing wildlife trafficking between Thailand and Lao PDR, a major route for smuggling wildlife, including tigers, pangolins (scaly anteaters), and many other endangered species destined for markets in China and Vietnam. Law enforcement investigators including customs, police, wildlife officers, and prosecutors attended the course, which provided participants from Lao PDR's Department of Forestry Inspection with their first-ever training in advanced investigations. The U.S.-supported training course developed the capacity of the officers to investigate organized criminal groups engaged in natural resource and wildlife crime. The course was also designed to improve enforcement collaboration between the two countries, which are both members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Wildlife Enforcement Network (ASEAN-WEN). The U.S. State Department's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs co-funded the course, which was conducted by Freeland, a Bangkok-based counter-trafficking organization. Freeland implemented the training course as part of the USAID-funded Asia's Regional Response to Endangered Species Trafficking (ARREST) Program, the U.S. Government's largest counter wildlife trafficking initiative.


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@Langotriel - Thanks for your reply! Makes complete sense. I suspected your process might be something like that but it's nice to know for sure.
Why am I just now finding out about Skywind? I would love to play a role in the development to make Skywind the best remaster available. I would like to audition for the voice acting. I am looking through the tutorials and information as I type this.
Hi, I am currently recording my samples for Gothren, but after about eight runthroughs of practising each line, my throat started to hurt, and I can't stop coughing when I try to do the voice because it's such a wheezy strain.
Here's the sample that I managed to complete https://soundcloud.com/jaymeseph/sample
Has anyone got any advice as to make my voice last longer and not put as much strain on it?
Thanks, Jamie.
Are Auditions still open? Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere but after much searching I am stuck wondering. The video said they are closed but the page says they are open? I probably have misread something somewhere XD
Jay, all I could suggest is that you keep a glass of water handy while you record, and take breaks as you need them. The voice sounds great, though!
ELL, auditions are still technically open, but we've got most male characters assigned at this point with exception of Dunmer. Still loads of Dunmer left.
Is there a full list of people I could look through to find who I could "audition" for I was thinking I could "audition" for a dunmer but I don't know who I could be?
Audition for a race. Smitehammer will assign you to a particular character based on your audition, so don't worry about finding someone in particular. Just use any of the example scripts and apply the accent you feel is your best attempt at that race.
I should warn everyone that at this point, most parts have been assigned for males from the base game. Females are still open across all races except Altmer. We will not assign expansion characters until after the lines are pulled for the main game, generics have their scripts, and the idle banter is written for them.
There is of course always the possibility of people assigned to roles not being able to complete the task of recording, so we still may need people to fill in, in such cases.
Is there a spot/thread just to get feedback on our voices? I posted my auditions, but I'd also like to get some feedback like which voices sound the best, what I need to work on, etc.
There's some background noise, and some problems with pronunciation of a few of the words. The acting is pretty good, and the Dunmer voices have a nice sound to them. As mentioned in my previous post, though, males have been assigned for the base-game unique voices. We've not covered 'generics' or characters from expansions yet, and there's the possibility that some of the people assigned so far may not be able to record lines for some or all of their characters.
Hello, I dont know if you still need Female Voice work. But I attached a demo of some of the lines ive done in other mods and indie games.
I hope you are well. good luck on your project! I know the sound quality isnt so great, i just bought a Samsung Metoer Mic so if there are any lines you would like me to read I can read it with that microphone. I can do a lot of differnt sound variations that arent included here as well. Let me know if I can be of any help =)
Hey Windmorro! Yes, we could definitely use more female voice actors! As you said, the sound quality is a bit low, but it sounds like that could be fixed with noise removal. You can follow Langotriel's tutorial in the first post of this thread for ways to improve your SQ.
Feel free to audition for any races you want, reading the first post in each audition thread for a description. You can listen to other people's auditions for some ideas on how they should sound. (If littlecuppajoe has an audition for a given race, she's probably done it right ;))
One thing I would suggest, is to 'let go' when you record. The volume is fine, but it sounds like you're speaking softly. Record like you're actually speaking to someone else, and don't be afraid to be super emotive. A lot of the lines from Morrowind are fairly bland by themselves, so it's up to the actors to deliver them in an interesting way.
Hello i am Portuguese and i am a big fan of skyrim, i can do Khajiit voice sounding, old or more young, and i can do like Elder spirits or Elementals with ancient voices in reference of the old Tauren of Warcraft. Let me know if you have spot for these kind of character voices and if you need samples. Cheers!
Please read the OP, kenshi. It outlines what you should do pretty clearly :)
Hey, possibly a dumb question, but I posted my sample lines and got some feedback (not yet reviewed by a second SQ checker). I was wondering if I should repost my second round of sample lines soon, or wait for the second SQ checker? And if so, is there any specific way you'd want me to label them? Sorry if you've already answered this question, I couldn't find anything related.
Not a problem Serenerly, this process is still ramping up. In short, we're hoping to have them all peer reviewed in the next few days. If you got a message from someone in SQ telling you to re-record your sample then go ahead, otherwise hold on for a few more days and it'll get peer reviewed and you'll recieve a message. Cheers.
Hey there! It would seem that I am required to have permission in order to view my script. It also states that I have not yet been contacted, not sure how to go about this.
Forgive me if this is the wrong place to put this, the message did say this would be a place for comments and concerns. I was a little disheartened with but two roles, but I am hoping to impress. Thanks!
Out of curiosity, will we be adding any bards to Skywind? I'm sure I'm not the only capable vocalist here. :D
It's been talked about. I inquired about getting some nice guitar instrumentations from a guy on youtube but haven't gotten a response. I'd say they'd be considered expansion content at this point to be done after a first release.
Thank you kindly taerkalith, I'll get my sample finished soon!
Just checking in to say I'm still here and still awaiting scripts. This is the sheet I'm supposed to be checking, right? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gBA4DZukdM_3WPZpc-s8...
It looks like I have two roles, but no scripts yet, so I'm just opening the spreadsheet now and then when I think about it to see if things have gone through.
Tegwyn, Good to know. I'll try to get you something early next week. RL is quite busy for me atm but I'll make a point of getting you something. If you post here I'm more likely to not forget about you :) Same goes with any other Voice Actors awaiting scripts. Cheers!
I'm interested in contributing here, but I also have an Australian accent, would this eliminate any chance I have of contributing? Would I need to feign a European accent?
Like most people doing VA, you have to do the accent of the race. I'd recommend reading the individual race based audition threads to get a sense of the different accents we're looking for. You may find one easier than others as some accents are rather fictional (dunmer, khajiit, etc) while others are more closely related to an australian accent (you may find high elves easier than imperial for example).
Sorry, wrong thread.
I posted my auditions a few days ago but haven't heard anything, is there anything else I need to do? :)
I'm out of town now but I'll be assigning you some characters when I can.
Hello! I'm a female who is interested in perhaps voicing a character or two. I'm not entirely certain where to begin in looking for specific characters as I'm not very picky, but if there is anything that you'd like done, and if there are any spots available, could you point me in the right direction? Thanks!
@arilarah, all races will need a voice actor or two more, but dark elves are by far the most in need. Try a bit of an english accent (BBC style - google search) or argonians. Really, whatever you think is appropriate for a given race as per the outline, give it a go. If we think it is off, but appropriate for another race we'll move you over no problem, just get crackin'!
I guess I'm a few weeks late getting logged in to notice I have lines now, but I'm really excited! I'll get to them soon! :D :D :D
Quick question though, the special announcment has me a bit confused,
Smitehammer wrote:
SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!!! Recording VAs no longer have to cut their own soundfiles. Just submit your recordings as single .wav files and we have a team of people to do this work, so you can focus on recording all those beautiful lines
Will I still need to edit my sound file as was described in Langotriel's tutorial, or is it fine to just send it in raw? I don't mind doing the work if I need to, but if we have volunteers who are willing to do that part for me, then it would seem like a better use of my time to simply record my lines instead.
- Thanks!
You still need to mix the clip, but you no longer have to chop it up.
Great to know the VAs can focus purely on the sound recording aspect! Is it okay to submit the .WAV files in smaller chunks (but still in read order)? One WAV file for a character who has 300+ lines and speaks for over half an hour could be getting on for 1GB.
For sure, smaller chunks work well if they are how you describe above. I understand the size issue :)
I am really excited that we don't have to cut our files ourselves! This will be easy for sure, as when I record I do all of my lines by full pages at a time. Look forward to churning out my other characters.
Hi everyone! I'm a devout TES fan and a guitar player who has posted several auditions for Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon, Dremora, Khajiit, Argonians, Dunmer and Altmer. I'm also interested in helping out with music where I can. I would very much appreciate any feedback on my voice work. If further is required of me, I have necessary tools to record instrument and voice (a PC with Pro Tools as well as recording equipment, including a condenser microphone and pop filter) Thanks!
What does the G mean on the Assigned Voice Acting Docs file? Where it says U/G
G are generic, unimportant NPCs. sometimes we change the assignment if we think our initial look at the NPCs dialogue was incorrect. The have less lines and 1 VA can cover a lot of them.
Possibly dumb question - this is in the Skywind board, but does the acting also apply to Morroblivion?
No, just Skywind.
Ah, I see. Is the Morroblivion voice acting mod still under development?
I don't believe so.
Aw, that's disappointing. Thanks for answering, though.
I have posted completed lines in the appropriate Google Doc for Oritius Maro.
Cheers again and thanks. Ill check it for feedback occasionally unless that comes through a PM
Hi! This is Moongem, following a link here from VAA (Voice Acting Alliance)! I've loved the Elder Scrolls modding community, and I've always wanted to contribute to the cause! Voicing in Skywind would be an amazing experience to me, and would love the chance!
If I could be provided a few line to audition with, I'd be most appreciative!
My voice could be suitable for;
- Imperials
- Nords
- High Elves
- Wood Elves
- Dark Elves
and I'd be more than willing to go for Argonians and Khjiits!
If you would like an email, just tell me here, or through PM. Either way, I'll be waiting!
I have a question...
I saw the scripts, to see the yet-to-be-assigned characters... And then I remembered about a riddle with a Fire Atronach, a Frost Atronach and a Storm Atronach. And I see they are not listed in the Excel sheet (at least I haven't found them)
My question is... Are they actually listed? Have they been assigned, already?
If not, I'll try recording lines for the Frost and/or Storm Atronach (not the Fire Atronach for being a female-like creature, as suggested by Skyrim, so it would be interesting for a woman to record lines for it).
Sorry, I am super, super late to this party, but...
Do you guys still need woman voice actors? If so, for what parts? I still need to get a nicer mic, but I can at least do an audition, & if I'm cast I can go buy myself something nicer than what I currently have.
Still open. Feel free to audition.
As far as both men and women, we could use new active VAs with impeccable quality (this last part's important) for all races at this point. While all male parts have been assigned, many of the VAs assigned haven't gotten back to us and so their claim is now subject to replacement. None of the races so far have been 100% recorded with their VAs confirmed, so as I said, we're taking all possibilities.
I don't remember a riddle with storm, frost and flame atronachs... Part of some quest somewhere?


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Gear List
My main Bass is a 1962 Fender Precision, it started life as a "salmon pink," then "natural," but since 1981 it's been black. After 6 re-frets, a great guitar maker called Dick Knight fitted a new fingerboard made from a piece of rosewood that's over 100 years old. It has a Schecter brass bridge and nut, the original pick-ups and replacement machine heads (70's). I bought it in 1962 when I was 16 and I've used it on just about everything I've done.
Because I'm left-handed, I looked for years for something similar in case anything happened to the other one and in 1990 I found a 1963 sunburst Fender Precision which is totally original apart from a replacement pick-up and absolutely beautiful.
I've played quite a lot of fretless bass too, over the years, and mine is a 1988 Warwick Thumb 5-string.
Ive used just about everything during my career but the best have been a 1954 Fender bassman, Fender PS400 with a 2 X 15 JBL CAB and JBL Bullet Tweeter. Then from the 80's on, whenever possible, I've used an AMPEG SVT with an 8×10 CAB. The last few years I have also used a MARK combo which sounds great, and because it's digital it is so light and easy to transport. I also love the combos made by AER.
Since the end of the 60's I've used ROTOSOUNDS, they're great and they make them in a wide range of gauges, mine are 35, 50, 80 and 100.
I've used various pedals over the years but now only use a BOSS DIGITAL DELAY, although I do like their DIGITAL REVERB.
When I use picks they're JIM DUNLOP 88's


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Discover dining and occasional tables with exclusive, artisan finishes. Oxidation transforms heavy materials into something light and elegant. Iron is acid-washed and sealed to preserve the moment in time. Heavily distressed, reclaimed oak contrasts with smooth, splayed legs. Geometric and flatstock underpinnings feel ahead of the curve.
Plantation yukas deliver warmth to minimalist styling. Slender legs of bronzed iron support an ashfinished frame as resin fills yukas' natural graining. Iron hardware adds modern edge to midcentury form. Open-front doors and slim center drawer for ample desk storage.
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Zinacantán, a small town close to San Cristóbal de las Casas in the mountains of Chiapas, is home to some of the most beautiful textiles of Mexico. These small shawls, "chals" or "rebozos" are woven from traditional purple cotton thread. The warp also features the shiny warp threads in red, silver and blue. After it is woven, it is machine-embroidered in the most amazing floral designs. Each one is unique and all of them are especially beautiful. I handpicked them. Each one features the beautiful, large tassels that are used to tie the shawl around the shoulders. The tassels can be removed, if you like. Some of the edges are scalloped and others are not. Some have embellished edges and others do not. Beautiful as a table runner or a wall hanging. Be creative...
There is one left with a purple background--The first photo of the available piece is the one on the counter, then the 3 photos following are the detail. They are all very beautiful so you can't go wrong!
Last one!
state of origin: Chiapas dimensions: approximately 38-42"" long by 17-21" wide