text:
1:32 banisterfiend: can someone tell me how to setup clojure in linux?
1:35 ayrnieu: banister - go to clojure.org, click on 'wiki' at the top-right, go to Getting Started.
1:41 banisterfiend: can you please help me though instead
1:46 cp2: banisterfiend not much to setup
1:46 all you need is java
1:46 and then you can either grab the source from the svn and build it, or download the latest release
1:46 banisterfiend: which do you recommend?
1:46 source or latest release?
1:46 cp2: doesnt matter really
1:46 banisterfiend: (and how long does the source take to build?)
1:46 cp2: building from source isnt necessarily "stable"
1:47 it builds pretty quickly
1:47 cmvkk: on the other hand, some pretty significant changes have occurred since the last real release?
1:47 cp2: yeah, that is true
1:47 banisterfiend: ill build from source
1:47 cp2: banisterfiend, i also recommend what ayrnieu told you to do
1:47 the wiki is a great place to start at
1:48 banisterfiend: can i use clojure with slime?
1:48 cp2: there is clojure-slime
1:48 banisterfiend: is emacs the recommended clojure editor?
1:48 cp2: and also clojure-mode
1:48 and swank-clojure
1:48 well, banisterfiend, its up to you in the end
1:48 banisterfiend: yeah
1:48 just curious what most ppl are using though :)
1:48 ayrnieu: I did all my clojure editing with vi.
1:49 banisterfiend: what is the javac package called?
1:49 it says i need javac
1:49 but apt-get install javac doesn't do the trick
1:49 cp2: jdc
1:49 er
1:49 jdk
1:49 *
1:49 banisterfiend: thanks
1:50 cp2: javac is included in the jdk
1:50 but, the package is not labeled jdk probably
1:50 what package manager?
1:50 oh right, apt
1:50 banisterfiend: apt
1:50 cp2: apt-get install sun-jdk iirc
1:51 banisterfiend: apt-get install sun-java6-jdk ?
1:51 cp2: yes thats it
1:51 banisterfiend: (i dont know anything about java sorry)
1:51 java6 rather than java5 ?
1:52 cp2: java6 is the latest
1:52 banisterfiend: ok thanks
1:52 cp2: you could have java5 if you want, but it lacks some newer features
1:52 nothing too special though
1:52 banisterfiend: like templates?
1:52 cp2: generics* were introduced in java 5
1:52 clojure will build in either tho
1:53 banisterfiend: generics are the java word for templates?
1:53 cp2: pretty much
1:53 banisterfiend: last time i looked at some java code
1:53 seems like it's getting pretty much as complicated as c++
1:53 cp2: eh, not so much
1:54 banisterfiend: so
1:54 hmm
1:54 is clojure really so good for multi-core systems?
1:55 cp2: i dont know; maybe a more competent person can answer :)
1:55 banisterfiend: you're new to clojure too?
1:55 cp2: somewhat
1:56 banisterfiend: new to lisps too?
1:56 cp2: somewhat
1:56 heh
1:57 banisterfiend: so what about clojure appealed to you?
1:58 cp2: i dont know, i was always curious about lisps
1:59 started learning cl, but never really did anything with it
1:59 then i found out about clojure, and like it because it used the java library
1:59 coming from java, that was appealing
1:59 being able to use a library i was familiar with
2:00 banisterfiend: what other languages do you know besides java? which dynamic ones esp? :D
2:03 cp2: pretty much python and ruby
2:03 and i wouldnt go as far as "know"
2:06 banisterfiend: ah ok
2:06 which do you prefer out of python and ruby?
2:07 cp2: i havent used either enough to say for sure, but i will go with python
2:07 banisterfiend: wow so you're pretty much just a java programmer?!
2:08 cp2: well, was
2:08 i had a fling with C# too
2:08 banisterfiend: what have you set things up to run the clojure repl?
2:09 cp2: what ?
2:09 banisterfiend: i mean what do you type to run the repl?
2:09 cp2: you can use java -jar clojure.jar
2:09 and it will drop a repl
2:09 on the wiki it goes over using jline with clojure at a shell, which is a bit nicer to use
2:21 banisterfiend: ok
2:21 how do i get ant to do the equivalent of a 'make install' to install clojure system wide?
2:22 cp2: well, you dont really need to install clojure, its just a java library after all
2:22 i suppose you could put it in a directory thats in PATH
2:22 banisterfiend: oh ok
2:22 im qutie new to linux
2:22 cp2: so you can just java -cp clojure.jar:. clojure.main somefile.clj
2:23 banisterfiend: how/where should i put the clj bash script so that i can run it from anywhere?
2:23 cp2: /usr/bin
2:23 banisterfiend: oh ok
2:23 thanks
2:23 cp2: make sure you chmod to a+x as well
2:25 banisterfiend: thanks
2:45 can someone give me a quick factorial example function in clojure?
2:45 (nothing clever using apply or whatever, just a simple recursive) :D
2:49 cmvkk: (defn fact [i] (loop [i i res 1] (if (< i 2) res (recur (dec i) (* res i))))
2:51 replaca: Simpler is this: (defn fact [n] (if (<= n 1) 1 (* n (fact (dec n)))))
2:51 but it's not as optimal, since java doesn't know how to optimize it
2:51 cmvkk: true; i automatically disregard solutions that aren't tail recursive now apparently?
2:52 replaca: strictly speaking, that is tail recursize :-)
2:52 *recursive
2:52 cmvkk: actually it isn't; fact's return still has to multiply against n.
2:53 otherwise you could use recur there, but if you try that it won't work.
2:53 replaca: oh yeah, you're right
2:54 but I think a good CL compiler would still optimize it, wouldn't it?
2:54 cmvkk: well you can't optimise a solution that isn't tail recursive so that it won't blow the stack.
2:55 replaca: hmmm
2:55 banisterfiend: thanks replaca
2:55 cmvkk: because you have to store that last "* n" somewhere...
2:55 and that somewhere is on the stack.
2:56 replaca: now I'm having to think too hard for this late on a Saturday night :-)
2:56 banisterfiend: no problem
2:56 cmvkk: i was going to say, i'm not actually sure; maybe there IS a way or something.
2:57 replaca: well, it seems optimizable in this case, but I don't know if it generalizes
2:57 since you could basically analyze it out into a loop
2:59 but a quick check shows me that sbcl can't do it, so I guess it "isn't done"
3:00 cmvkk: yeah; although possible, it doesn't seem feasable in any general sense
3:00 replaca: Thanks for the clarification cmvkk - I thought that case got converted to TCO
3:01 so I just learned something! :-)
3:08 jhujhiti: anyone using vimclojure 1.3.0?
3:59 Lau_of_DK: Morning all
4:00 ImInYourMonad: is the ants example by rhickey an example of swarm intelligence algorithm or is it just concurrency?
4:01 Lau_of_DK: concurrency
4:11 ImInYourMonad: knn.Knn with constructor Knn, then i should (import '(knn.KNN Knn)) right?
4:11 knn.KNN with constructor Knn, then i should (import '(knn.KNN Knn)) right?
4:13 lenst: Wrong?
4:14 ImInYourMonad: well it doesnt work
4:14 but is it the correct syntax?
4:15 lenst: You should only import the class, not the constructor.
4:16 hmm. What is a constructor btw? Isn't a constructor in Java just the class name?
5:40 Lau_of_DK: Hmm, SofiaBA, running with fog, double-textured translucent water and detail-textured Imagebased heightmap + skybox, idles at ~650 fps :)
5:42 hoeck: Lau_of_DK: and your machine is a??
5:42 Lau_of_DK: Its a single-core AMD 4000+ with a Geforce 8600 GTS
5:43 It goes roughly at the same speed on my laptop also, nvidia MX something
5:44 hoeck: Regarding physics - I got everything imported, all classes instantiated, added both statics and dynamics to my rootnode and everything rendered - but the physics wasnt active somehow, the gravity didnt pull for instance, so after working with that for 2 days I decided to freeze it until I had provided more wrapper functionality
5:45 hoeck: aha, thanks for the info, was just about to ask :)
5:45 Lau_of_DK: If you want to contribute that functionality - you'd be most welcome :)
5:45 hoeck: at least, there is box2D + processing left for java-clojure 2D physics
5:45 Lau_of_DK: I always felt like I was THIS close
5:46 Hows that useful in this regard?
5:46 hoeck: only for 2D, but still fun
5:47 did you try the jme-physics example from their wiki?
5:47 Lau_of_DK: Thats the one I ported, almost directly
5:48 Then when that didnt work, I commented out every but the physics part, it rendered, but didnt respond to forces
5:49 But its a big step that it rendered, because that means that all physics nodes (static + dynamic) were intantiated correctly
5:53 hoeck: well, I'm giving it a try, repl-interactive physics sounds just too interesting to give up :)
6:02 Lau_of_DK: Yea, although I dont have the physics, its cool to navigate an interactive world, like what Im doing now
6:03 But I recommend that you stick close to the Github, Im updating alot of stuff these days
6:03 (adding particle support atm)
6:08 hoeck: last night i was busy with adding a better clojure-def-regexp to clojure-mode, so that speedbar and imenu will show correct definitions
6:10 Lau_of_DK: Youre contributing to technomancy's clojure-mode aswell ?
6:12 hoeck: no, just a local fork to keep xemacs compatibility
6:14 don't know if any xemacs and speedbar users are here
6:15 Lau_of_DK: k
6:18 Already got particles flying around - Im really feeling the rapid pace of Lisp development on this one now :)
6:21 hoeck: cool
6:21 bOR_: thanks rhickey :). 7 8-core computers crunching on simulations that take 13 hours each :). would have been horrible if I would be using a single core per simulation.
7:10 banisterfiend: what is a 'special form' ?
7:15 Lau_of_DK: As I understand it, its a form thats provided from neither a clojure-function/macro
7:18 rfgpfeiffer: ,`(let [def [1 2 3]] (def 2))
7:18 clojurebot: (clojure.core/let [def [1 2 3]] (def 2))
7:19 rfgpfeiffer: ,(let [def [1 2 3]] (def 2))
7:19 clojurebot: DENIED
7:19 rfgpfeiffer: banisterfiend: you can't rebind special forms, for example
7:20 ,(let [fn [1 2 3]] (fn 2))
7:20 clojurebot: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: Integer
7:23 rfgpfeiffer: ,([1 2 3] 2)
7:23 clojurebot: 3
7:24 rfgpfeiffer: ,'def
7:24 clojurebot: def
7:50 hoeck: Lau_of_DK: which revision of clojure are you using for SofiaBa?
8:13 Cheshire: hi clojeure
8:31 rhickey: Cheshire: hi
9:42 gnuvince_: Good morning
10:10 Lau_of_DK: hoeck: The one just before Lazy Town moved in
10:10 I think only 1 functions is affected
10:11 Is it easy enough to get running from the clone?
10:35 replaca: gnuvince_: you were asking about "status of pretty print" yesterday?
10:37 The core pretty print engine is all done, pretty printing data is all done, now I'm getting all the defiinitions for various code structures in
10:37 Should be ready for "preview release" RSN, but my day job has been a bear the last couple of months
10:41 gnuvince_: replaca: thanks
10:41 replaca: gnuvince_: np
10:47 gnuvince_: Does anyone have any recommendation for tutorials or books to quickly get up to speed with Swing?
12:09 blbrown: http://
12:11 kotarak: blbrown: you don't? With proxy you get an object, which behaves as specified, when calling the methods. Why would you want to implement a constructor for an object, which is already there?
12:12 blbrown: kotarak, maybe that is the intended purpose, but if I wanted to implement an abstract class and have access to protected methods through defining a constructor, you are saying I can't do that?
12:14 kotarak: blbrown: I'm not that solid in Java knowledge. I never tried to access protected methods via a proxy....
12:16 blbrown: hmm, according to the docs, I do have access to protected methods
12:16 kotarak: blbrown: Well. then it should be possible, no? I'm not sure, though, why you would need a constructor to do so.
12:18 blbrown: kotarak, I don't necessarilly need a constructor. but i need to call the protected method some how
12:18 kotarak: blbrown: is this method implemented by the super class? Then there is proxy-super (or something like this).
12:19 mattrepl: kotarak: was looking for that to post.. not finding it on site docs, must've seen it on list
12:20 blbrown: glad there aren't any usage examples in the clojure api docs
12:20 mattrepl: oh, no it's on the api page, just not on the java-interop page
12:21 http://
12:21 ,(doc proxy-super)
12:21 clojurebot: "([meth & args]); Use to call a superclass method in the body of a proxy method. Note, expansion captures 'this"
12:36 Chouser: "Note that while method fns can be provided to override protected methods, they have no other access to protected members"
12:38 gnuvince_: Is -Xprof considerer accurate? Because it reports that one of the costliest functions in my code is PersistantVector.count, but I never call it (and as far as I know, count is supposed to be really fast)
12:41 durka42: PersistentVector.java:138 public int count(){ return cnt; }
12:41 blbrown: OK, this is what I am trying to do. Obviously I am doing that wrong, but at least it doesn't give me an error. http://
12:41 p_l: gnuvince_: You sure it's never called? Is there any call graph tool available?
12:42 gnuvince_: 22.9% 3774 + 0 clojure.lang.PersistentVector.count
12:42 Chouser: blbrown: (doto (proxy [PircBot] []) (.setName "-->dog"))
12:42 durka42: i don't know how you do breakpoints in java, but you could edit PersistentVector::count to throw an exception, then you'd get a backtrace
12:43 gnuvince_: p_l: the better profiler (which takes ages to run) has very different numbers
12:45 blbrown: Chouser, setName is not found because it is protected
12:45 Chouser: blbrown: allow me to introduce you to gen-class
12:45 blbrown: bah
12:45 Chouser: I know. I'm sorry.
12:46 Lau_of_DK: Good evening gents
12:47 Chouser: all you would need is a class that extends PircBot, and provides public access to the protected members you need.
12:47 Then you could go ahead and use proxy on that new class instead.
12:47 Lau_of_DK: hi
12:47 Lau_of_DK: Yo Chris
12:48 Coaching the crowd on Gen-class again? :)
12:49 Chouser: :-(
12:49 Lau_of_DK: My solution worked out so great, that Im now doing gen-class in gen-class :)
12:50 Did you check out my latest screenshot Chouser, with the fog and everything?
12:50 Chouser: proxy teases with its ease of use, then suddenly betrays.
12:50 ah, nope, hadn't 'seen the fog.
12:51 those are nice clouds. do they move?
12:51 Lau_of_DK: They move when you move, its a skybox
12:51 rhickey: Chouser: is that :let for doseq ready for me to take? did you have any other thoughts on for unification?
12:51 Lau_of_DK: (im not happy with it yet though)
12:52 clojurebot: proxy is <Chouser> proxy teases with its ease of use, then suddenly betrays.
12:52 clojurebot: You don't have to tell me twice.
12:52 Lau_of_DK: Truer words are rarely spoken
12:52 Chouser: rhickey: don't use that, it's got a bug.
12:53 rhickey: ok
12:53 Chouser: still working on let. I think I've got it by the tail now...
12:53 er, for
12:57 mattrepl: Lau_of_DK: link to screenshot?
12:59 Chouser: mattrepl: http://
12:59 Lau_of_DK: http://
12:59 mattrepl: its a work in progress
13:00 mattrepl: Lau_of_DK: and I'm assuming this is jME? I'm curious if you've tried adding models to a scene after it was created. I've noticed issues with lighting
13:00 Lau_of_DK: Yea, in the current project you can press P to spawn a swarm on particles, and N to spawn a textured sphere with a picture of my daughter :) All works perfectly
13:01 mattrepl: heh, nice. =)
13:10 Lau_of_DK: hoeck: report
13:32 blbrown: hiredman you there?
13:34 Lau_of_DK: hoeck: report
13:37 hoeck: Lau_of_DK: segfaulted my vm
13:37 Lau_of_DK: really... Thats no good
13:37 Why are you on a VM ?
13:38 hoeck: regardless which renderer (lwjgl or jogl) was used
13:38 i mean my jvm :)
13:38 Lau_of_DK: Any way to deduct what kills it ?
13:38 Can you compile it?
13:38 hoeck: now I've just upgraded to jdk6.11
13:39 yeah, it compiles, then asks for screen resolution and such, then I see an empty frame, then the segfault
13:39 Lau_of_DK: Hmm
13:39 hoeck: somewhere when calling an openGL routine
13:40 Lau_of_DK: Have you tried the Webstart demos from JMonkeyengine.com ?
13:40 hoeck: no, that would be the next step
13:41 Lau_of_DK: Ok... Hope you can point your finger at something that breaks
13:41 You did read the README right?
13:41 cp2: hoeck it could be an opengl problem
13:42 Lau_of_DK: cp2: You got it running?
13:42 cp2: no, i dont know what you are talking about actually (the program i mean)
13:42 i know about jME, etc
13:42 link me, ill try it
13:42 hoeck: definetely a java-opengl problem (glxgears works)
13:43 Lau_of_DK: http://
13:43 cp2: righto
13:43 give me a sec
13:44 Lau_of_DK: thanks
13:45 cp2: stupid tortoisegit
13:45 Lau_of_DK: Git rocks
13:45 Github is a little tortoise-like these days though
13:45 cp2: yeah, but tortoisegit (shell interface for windows)
13:46 right, now i need to get jme (again)
13:46 Lau_of_DK: hehe
13:47 I think LWJGL is included in the git clone
13:47 the deps/ needs to be in your library path, and the src/ in your classpath
13:49 cp2: googlecode svn not too fast today
13:51 Lau_of_DK yeah, lwjgl is in there
13:51 once less thing for me to grab
13:53 Lau_of_DK: man tortoisegit looks awful
13:53 cp2: yeah
13:53 then again, windows is pretty awful too
13:53 i just ended up opening a git bash shell
14:01 blbrown: PircBot hello
14:03 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: Madison?
14:03 blbrown: Chouser funny, you have to connect to the server, change the nick then join the channel. with pircbot/clojure
14:04 ,(+ 1 1)
14:04 clojurebot: 2
14:04 blbrown: hehe [clojurebot] (email@example.com): PircBot 1.4.6 Java IRC Bot - www.jibble.org ...haha your name is really pircbot because hiredman didn't add code to change your name
14:06 Lau_of_DK: danlarkin: Its good :)
14:06 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: madison it is, then!
14:07 Lau_of_DK: WEEEE! Its a big day today
14:07 cp2: ok, finally
14:07 got jme physics to build with much hassle
14:07 would be nice if ant didnt forcibly exit when its done
14:07 would also be nice to have known jmephysics needs jmetest
14:08 *sigh*
14:08 Lau_of_DK: cp2, I wrote out physics in the latest commit
14:08 so - You wont need it :(
14:08 cp2: ugh
14:08 Lau_of_DK: Sorry
14:08 cp2: didnt care to update your readme then
14:08 >:(
14:09 Lau_of_DK: No I just wrote it in one of todays commit, because I plan on bringing it back
14:09 * cp2 is an unhappy windows user
14:11 Lau_of_DK: ofc
14:15 cp2: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: dk.bestinclass.sof
14:15 iaba$get_resource_uri__3164 (sofiaba.clj:12)
14:15 eh Lau_of_DK ?
14:16 it gets built at least
14:16 hold on
14:16 kotarak: cp2: maybe you should rebuilt the project. Failures like that indicate an incomplete jar or an inconsistent build.
14:17 cp2: kotarak i fixed that problem
14:17 but now
14:17 java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: lazy-cons in this context (wrappe
14:17 rs.clj:59)
14:17 *sigh*
14:17 this is a fresh svn build of clojure too
14:17 (lazy-cons t (map (eval f) c))) ;; TODO: UPDATE TO LATEST REV OF CLOJURE
14:17 Lau_of_DK: cp2, lazy-cons = cons
14:17 Youre on a later revision than me
14:17 cp2: k, so just change it
14:17 ?
14:17 Lau_of_DK: just remove "lazy-"
14:17 yea
14:17 cp2: aye
14:18 hoeck: Lau_of_DK: did that replacement too :)
14:18 cp2: yay, it compiled
14:18 Lau_of_DK: What can I say - I had to wait for SLIME and SWANK :)
14:18 yay
14:18 hoeck: Lau_of_DK: but slime and swank works already with lazy
14:18 Lau_of_DK: Yea I know, now Im just waiting for me
14:18 hoeck: :)
14:20 cp2: of course, got all that set but i forgot to put lwjgl in classpath
14:20 Lau_of_DK: LIBRARY_PATH
14:20 not classpath
14:20 cp2: no, im not talking about the shared libraries
14:20 im talking about lwjgl.jar etc
14:21 Lau_of_DK: Also notice the "compile-it" function in sofiaba.clj, you need to adjust *compile-path*
14:21 hiredman: blbrown: ?
14:21 Lau_of_DK: k
14:22 cp2: ok Lau_of_DK, it runs
14:22 jme didnt prompt me to set anything thought :(
14:23 Lau_of_DK: cp2, the very last function in sofiaba.clj, change NeverShowConfig to AlwaysShowConfig and run again
14:23 cp2: ok
14:24 Lau_of_DK: But you see the island, and everything renders okay, you get an fps count?
14:24 cp2: yes
14:25 Lau_of_DK: cool
14:26 cp2 - Are you comfortable with jmephysics?
14:26 cp2: as in, can i use it?
14:26 er, write code for/with it rather
14:27 cp2: tbh i never really took the time to learn about jmephysics, and i never did much with jme
14:27 as for right now, i am going to go play some et :)
14:28 Lau_of_DK: Yea - I tried to integrate it, but I didnt fly - I got objects attached to dynamicphysicsnode / staticnodes, and everything rendered, but the physics didnt function
14:40 blbrown: hiredman, cool, you are back. In your clojure bot code, is there a way to call the protected methods of the pircbot api. E.g. I noticed that you didn't call setName in your code
15:01 Lau_of_DK: Chouser: Are you done porting this yet? http://
15:03 hiredman: blbrown: no, I use proxy, so all the proxy provisos apply
15:03 Lau_of_DK: clojurebot: proxy?
15:03 clojurebot: proxy is <Chouser> proxy teases with its ease of use, then suddenly betrays.
15:04 hiredman: WFM
15:04 blbrown: hehe
15:04 Chouser: Lau_of_DK: what a waste.
15:04 blbrown: seems like it can do everything except access protected members and implement constructors
15:04 Chouser: and add new methods
15:05 blbrown: ...OK that too
15:05 Chouser: and produce specifically-named classes
15:05 blbrown: Chouser, ok, ok
15:05 kotarak: And when it can do all that, we rename it to gen-class. ;)
15:05 blbrown: kotarak, does gen-class work dynamically or do you need to compile
15:05 kotarak: You have to compile.
15:06 blbrown: hmm
15:23 rlb: Is there a better way to write (in the scheme/lisp sense) to a file than calling pr-str or prn-str and then writing that?
15:24 Lau_of_DK: There are many java-ways to write to a file, the right one depends on your purpose
15:24 rlb: Lau_of_DK: I just mean wrt clojure, i.e. since pr and prn only write to *out*, then it seemed like you probably needed to use pr-str or prn-str if you want to send the output somewhere else (unless clojure has some way to locally bind *out*).
15:25 Lau_of_DK: (with-out-str
15:25 (doc with-out-str)
15:25 clojurebot: Evaluates exprs in a context in which *out* is bound to a fresh StringWriter. Returns the string created by any nested printing calls.; arglists ([& body])
15:25 kotarak: rib: (binding [*out* something-else] ....)
15:25 rlb: Lau_of_DK: right, but that still wouldn't send the output to a file -- i.e. you still create the string then write that.
15:25 kotarak: ahh, ok, thanks.
15:25 kotarak: that's what I was wondering about.
15:27 How do pr or prn handle errors?
15:28 More specifically, is there a documented return value you're supposed to check, or are you supposed to rely on exceptions to report any errors?
15:29 i.e. if you need to be able to know for sure (or as sure as possible), whether or not something went wrong by the time you finish closing the file.
15:32 Chouser: pr and prn will return nil or throw an exception
15:32 Lau_of_DK: Do you guys generally use the java convention when naming clojure vars/functions ?
15:32 rlb: Lau_of_DK: I'm not sure what conventions you're talking about, but I know scheme and lisp much better than java, so I tend to treat clojure like a scheme/lisp.
15:33 Lau_of_DK: k
15:33 rlb: Chouser: thanks.
15:33 Chousuke: java convention?
15:33 Raynes: I remain closer to Scheme and such when naming vars and functions
15:35 rlb: Lau_of_DK: in particular, assuming that this relates to what you're asking, I would use names like open? exists? with-frob-connection, etc.
15:37 Lau_of_DK: I meant specifically like the java convention names everything with smallFirstCapitalizedAfterThat
15:37 * durka42 doesn't use camelCase in clojure
15:45 rlb: I'm fairly unfond of camelCase anywhere...
15:47 Raynes: It's very unlispy to use camelCase.
15:48 Lau_of_DK: It is -unfortunately I didnt notice until I had written about 4000 lines of it
15:48 rlb: Lau_of_DK: emacs to the rescue ;>
15:48 (or maybe perl)
15:49 Lau_of_DK: Emacs... :)
15:49 kotarak: Or Vim :)
15:49 * kotarak couldn't resist.
15:49 Raynes: Screw Vim.
15:49 Lau_of_DK: kotarak: neither could Raynes
15:49 Raynes: Agreed.
15:50 Lau_of_DK: ;)
15:50 rlb: That would be nice -- a tool that knows clojure well enough to unambiguously do a search/replace for a particular logical entity, i.e. "this particular foo".
15:56 leafw: rlb: yeah -- who is developing that?
15:58 Lau_of_DK: Java folk, I have a bunch of java files that I want to incorporate in my project, is there a quick way to convert them all to class files? java -compile * or something ?
15:59 kotarak: Lau_of_DK: Have a look in the clojure ant build.xml.
15:59 Should be easy to transfer.
15:59 Lau_of_DK: I was hoping for something quick and dirty :)
16:01 kotarak: Lau_of_DK: well. That's quick and clean. Isn't that better? :)
16:01 ayrnieu: find .|egrep 'java$'|xargs javac
16:02 Lau_of_DK: perfect :)
16:02 sorry Kota, Im too lazy to be clean
16:02 slashus2: Lau_of_DK: javac *.java
16:03 kotarak: Lau_of_DK: hm... That will come to haunt you anyway later on.... Be clean now, have less work later. ;)
16:04 leafw: Lau_of_DK: I use often: javac -classpath .$(find -name "*.jar" -printf "%h/%f:"):. $(find -name "*.java" -printf "%h/%f ")
16:05 or some variation.
16:05 Lau_of_DK: cool
16:07 blbrown: is OK to put lisp datastructures in a database. I have this idea for storing a list of items. hmm
16:07 RDBMS don't really support tree/list structures very well
16:13 hoeck: blbrown: well, that hurts the relational model very hard
16:13 blbrown: you use the ability to express queries over those stored lists
16:14 but for storing code, or big hashtables, maybe
16:16 blbrown: yea, would hurt the relational model. But modern databases are great for storing and retrieving "Data" and that would be the main goal.
16:16 For example, it would be better than storing XLM
16:19 Lau_of_DK: hoeck: Did you ever get beyond that segfault?
16:20 hoeck: Lau_of_DK: not with sofiaba, the jme examples run fine, at least, they run
16:20 Lau_of_DK: ok - weird
16:22 hoeck: it seems they all require shaders, too much for my old chipset graphics
16:22 Lau_of_DK: Yea they're pretty advanced
16:23 hoeck: yeah, weird, before segfaulting they say something like "unsupported texture size - rescaling to power of 2"
16:23 Lau_of_DK: Hmm, if you comment out the call to makeTerrain, you should be fine, thats the only object I scale
16:23 hoeck: and that my card won't support textures other than with 2^n sizes
16:23 jhujhiti: (HttpServer/create (InetSocketAddress. 8080)) where create is a static method of HttpServer. what am i doing wrong? i get "No matching method: create"
16:24 Lau_of_DK: Its also about to go away, Im working on a much larger streamed in terrain
16:30 It seems the gentlemen who wrote these java-classes were working off some odd OS, which has characters that are unmappable for UTF8. Is there a quick-fix way to convert them ?
16:30 hiredman: well
16:31 magic
16:32 hoeck: blbrown: definitely better than storing xml
16:32 blbrown: hoeck, exactly
16:32 hoeck: blbrown: but you loose the expressive power of the relational algebra
16:33 some databases provide means to query graph-like structures in sql
16:33 or you use datalog for that
16:33 blbrown: blbrown, kind of buitin serialization if I save data as lisp code, plus, I suck at algebra. hehe.
16:33 Lau_of_DK: blbrown: Have you looked at Voldemort / CouchDB ?
16:33 hiredman: there are also graph databases
16:35 blbrown: Lau_of_DK, I looked at couchdb. for my application, it is for my irc bot, so it isn't a production system or anything. couchdb might work. Actually my databse I was going to use was sqlite
16:35 Lau_of_DK: Then go with Derby instead
16:35 If you go with some type of SQL program, check out ClojureQL
16:36 Im quite stuck here - Can someone help me compile this: http://
16:36 blbrown: Lau_of_DK, why did you recommend couchdb. At the same time, I want to try new things
16:37 Lau_of_DK: I recently read an article about a new website called Urbantastic.something which used Clojure and CouchDB and were quite happy with that choise
16:37 twopoint718: CouchDB is a key/value store, right?
16:38 Lau_of_DK: As far as I understood, yes
16:38 twopoint718: So can you do things like give me all of X whose value is Y?
16:38 Lau_of_DK: Google will tell you :)
16:38 blbrown: I thought it was a document database
16:39 twopoint718: say: SELECT * FROM some_table WHERE id==10
16:39 Lau_of_DK: But actually, Clojure comes pretty close to perfect, if you want to write your own database system
16:39 blbrown: yea, that won't take any time, hehe. Actually I like the idea of serializing objects as a database system
16:39 hiredman: (use terracotta and persist to disk)
16:40 twopoint718: Heck for most of what I do (usually just store little config files) I love being able to 'print' 'read'-able data structures to a flat text file.
16:40 hoeck: twopoint718: yeah, thats a big win for lisps in general
16:40 hiredman: clojurebot keeps factoids in a hash map printed to a file
16:41 blbrown: OK, here is what I think I will use, order of preference: couchdb -> terracota -> derby/hsqldb -> serialize -> rabbitmq -> sqlite
16:42 hiredman: terracota will, I think, be the most work there
16:42 twopoint718: I was just looking to see what the equivalent was in Clojure and was happy to find (read-string (slurp "datafile.clj"))
16:43 blbrown: hiredman, yea, deployment on win32/linux would have to be easy. derby or hsqldb sure is a simple approach though, hmm
16:51 great, on your own personal projects, you can make architecture decisions in 5 minutes.
16:54 rlb: If clojure doesn't already have it, it might be interesting to have a persistent object store like rscheme's.
16:56 -- the ability to make a data structure and everything it references (at least read/writable things) persistent automatically, and only fault it in/out on demand as the pointers are traversed.
16:57 ...same thing the Texas persistent object store does (one of Dr. Wilson's topics)...
16:59 In any case, it might be interesting to at least have something like a "giant seq" interface, i.e. easy to use list/vector/hash-table's for data that's way to big to fit in RAM.
17:01 hiredman: rlb: lazy-seq
17:01 just don't hang on to the head
17:03 rlb: hiredman: I wonder if some of the semantics that I was thinking of don't fit in well with a functional model (unless you use some kind of versioned store), i.e. a giant vector (32GB?), that you can read and write efficiently, but that can be treated like a seq.
17:04 hiredman: well
17:04 rlb: hiredman: of course I'm still getting used to clojure, so I'm not familiar enough to have any strong opinions/ideas about it.
17:04 hiredman: functional implies no write
17:04 rlb: s/it\./it yet./
17:04 hiredman: right -- that's what I meant.
17:07 Perhaps you could have a store that handled things more like clojure does internally, i.e. just create types of vectors, lists, etc. that can handle using the disk as a backing store, but still preserve the right functional semantics.
17:08 anyway... not today's problem.
17:12 Do any filesystems allow the user to efficiently and atomically splice two files?
17:12 (just curious)
17:22 Does clojure have anything like atexit or trap? i.e. a way to register a function to be run when the program exits?
17:23 (actually dynamic-wind or unwind-protect would be just fine here -- I'll go check for that...)
17:24 kotarak: rlb: (try ... (finally (do-something)))
17:25 rlb: kotarak: ahh, thanks -- I suppose I should have thought of "finally".
17:25 (or rather expected finally)
17:26 kotarak: rlb: since there are no continuations, try-finally should be sufficient, I guess.
17:26 rlb: kotarak: right.
17:28 kotarak: rlb: beware of lazy-seqs so. (try (map #(do-something-depending-on-the-finally %) some-seq) (finally (close-some-file-or-whatever))) will get you in trouble.
17:28 rlb: kotarak: do you know if try will even handle catchable signals?
17:28 kotarak: s/so/though/
17:28 rlb: signals in the sense "kill -15 1234" ?
17:28 rlb: kotarak: right -- signals that you can catch, but that take the app down by default.
17:29 i.e. stuff you would protect with a bash trap.
17:29 kotarak: rlb: dunno. Probably some JVM setting somewhere.
17:29 rlb: The goal is to make sure that the program always cleans up on exit if it didn't finish cleanly.
17:29 (if that's possible, i.e. no kill -9)
17:29 jhujhiti: http://
17:30 i only googled that for you because i was curious of how to do it myself
17:30 rlb: jhujhiti: thanks.
17:31 kotarak: what did you mean wrt lazy-seqs?
17:32 kotarak: just that the finally could/would be executed before the list was fully traversed?
17:33 kotarak: rlb: if you use resources like a open file in something like map or the like you need to realize the sequence before leaking it outside the try. Otherwise the file will be already closed when the seq is realized.
17:33 rlb: kotarak: right -- that's what I guessed you meant.
17:33 kotarak: rlb: yes. one can do (doall (map ...)) to realize the seq.
17:33 rlb: kotarak: right.
18:00 clojurebot: svn rev 1316; made futures use CachedThreadPool
18:04 pietia: hello
18:04 anyone use eclipse + clojure plugin ?
18:05 clojurebot: svn rev 1317; made letfn emit fn, not fn*
18:06 pietia: clojurebot, hello darling :P
18:10 rlb: Just started reading about clojure's answer to objects. It looks nice so far -- more like clos/generic-functions...
18:12 ayrnieu: rlb - defmulti/defmethod , you mean?
18:14 blbrown: rlb is that on a blog somewhere
18:15 Raynes: pietia: I have.
18:15 pietia: Raynes, do you have problems with running scripts?
18:16 rlb: ayrnieu, blbrown: I was just poking around here -- http://
18:17 Hmm, for now perhaps I'll just rely on File atomic creation, and not worry about other (non-java) clients.
18:17 Raynes: pietia: Running doesn't run a script, it just loads the REPL, you can then load the script with C-M-l I believe and use it like that. With no offense to Laurent, I know he's doing the best he can, the Eclipse plugin leaves a lot to be desired such as autoindent. I recommend using the netbeans plugin simply because I find it suited to everyday editing and development.
18:17 blbrown: I have a good zazzle clojure t-shirt idea. "Clojure, I can finally be productive again"
18:18 pietia: Raynes, yeah, it loads REPL - that's the point ;)
18:18 Raynes: Someone really needs to make a damned wall paper.
18:20 I would give all the parentheses in the world for a Clojure wall paper :<. I suck at image editing.
18:26 blbrown: Raynes you might post something about the google group board, I wouldn't mind one either.
18:42 brennanc: been learning Clojure for the last 2 days. It's my first lisp dialect. It's very impressive. Anybody using it on their servers? Wondering easy it is to get sites up and running with it.
18:43 how is it deployed normally?
18:45 dcnstrct: Does Clojure have any 'lispy' file IO functions?
18:45 something like with-open-file
18:46 brennanc: yes, it has with-open
18:46 dcnstrct: or does everyone just use java.io ?
18:46 ahh
18:46 ok I'll check out with-open
18:47 gnuvince_: dcnstrct: there's also some nice stuff in clojure.contrib.duck-streams
18:47 dcnstrct: good to know, will check that
18:52 powr-toc: brennanc: If you're talking webapps, it's easily deployed in standard java infastructure... i.e. an app server/servlet-container... for non web stuff, you just throw a jar on the java classpath... easy! :-)
18:53 brennanc: like glassfish? I've only glanced at java app servers. only looked at them briefly.
18:53 powr-toc: brennanc: yeah, glassfish, jetty, tomcat, jboss... any of 'em
18:54 brennanc: cool, I'll look for that once I get through the "Programming Clojure" book
18:56 powr-toc: Chouser: looks like add-watch's has changed again... did you revise your code yet?
19:00 lethalcode: Howdy folks - Is there a way to get a pared down version of clojure for already compiled .cljs to link to? No compiler, interpreter, etc.
19:00 hiredman: mm
19:01 clojure doesn't have an interpreter
19:01 lethalcode: By that, I meant Repl :D.
19:02 brennanc: you can compile to a .class file. From there you can run it like any other java class file. You will need to have clojure.jar and whatever other libraries you need though. Not sure if that answers your question.
19:02 dcnstrct: lol @ spit and slurp functions awesome naming
19:03 lethalcode: Not really, brennanc - clojure.jar also includes the Compiler, Repl, etc.
19:03 durka42: hiredman: what is clojure-slim.jar?
19:03 lethalcode: What I want is to build .class files from .clj, then jar it up (aimed at an embedded platform with minimal resources)
19:04 So I don't need Repl, Compile, etc.
19:04 brennanc: lethalcode: ahh, I think I get what you are asking. I'm only on my 2nd day of learning Clojure but you might be able to re-jar it without those things in there. Hack it down so to speak.
19:04 durka42: the thing is, you might need those things, to implement the read and eval functions for instance
19:05 brennanc: not sure about the dependencies
19:05 durka42: lisp has trouble separating these things :)
19:05 lethalcode: brennanc: Trying to do that now. Removed them, hacked at RT.java, etc.
19:05 durka42: We don't want read and eval. =).
19:05 We're using clojure to develop an app for users. Won't include eval() or any lisp scripting by the user, etc.
19:07 durka42: well, i know there's been work done on getting clojure running in places where you can't generate code, like applets and android
19:07 so it might be possible
19:07 lethalcode: durka42: Any idea who those folks are?
19:08 durka42: well, rhickey for one, of course
19:08 hiredman: lethalcode: why do you need to remove eval completely? why not just don't use it?
19:08 durka42: i'd advise looking through the mailing list for android
19:08 hiredman: I don't think the android stuff removes eval, it just doesn't work if you try to use it
19:09 lethalcode: hiredman: Long story. What we're actually doing is compiling clojure to .class files. Then using xmlvm to turn .class files into .objc files.
19:09 So we can then compile for the iPhone. :D.
19:09 durka42: that sounds a lot like what you have to do for android
19:09 hiredman: long story indeed
19:09 lethalcode: However - xmlvm has limited support. Can't do too much more than a "Hello World".
19:10 hiredman: yeah, track down the android stuff, I think there was a patch
19:10 that could be tricky
19:10 xmlvm looks twisted
19:10 lethalcode: I'm hoping that by removing eval and compile, we can reduce the work needed on xmlvm by a considerable amount. (Reflection, etc?)
19:11 The work needed to write wrappers in .objc, rather.
19:11 durka42: actually, xmlvm claims it can compile from android to iphone
19:11 lethalcode: durka42: Not quite true. :D.
19:11 durka42: i suspected :p
19:11 lethalcode: durka42: A Hello World is the only thing they can handle.
19:12 And they implemented just barely enough of the android API for that hello world.
19:12 (And often incorrectly. e.g: ImageView uses hardcoded image names . . .)
19:13 As for Android: Davlik VM has cut out some portions needed for dynamic code generation as well, it's true.
19:13 But still has all the java files there that need to be wrapped when converted to objc.
19:13 brennanc: xmlvm looks wicked. I'm looking at the javascript target now. That could be fun...
19:14 lethalcode: After converting clojure .classes to objc, we have *90* java header files that aren't implemented in xmlvm's compatability layer. 49 of those are Error or Exception classes. A bunch of others are probably easy to wrap, just need doing. And then there's Reflect, ClassLoader, Thread, . . .
19:15 I've been talking with Arno (main author of xmlvm) about what needs to be done and can be done.
19:15 durka42: Thread is kind of important...
19:16 lethalcode: Right. I intend to either ask Arno to do it (if he's willing), or to implement it myself. (Objc tutorials, here I come?)
19:16 Reflect and ClassLoader, though - If they can be done away with, that's probably best?
19:16 Raynes: blbrown: Good idea, I'll get right on that
19:39 Chouser: powr-toc: http://
19:46 powr-toc: Chouser: cool :-)
19:47 cmvkk: I frequently get in these situations where I essentially want a constant but I have to 'initialize' it first.
19:47 and it always seems wasteful to me to use a ref for something that i'm only planning to change the value of once
19:48 but there's not actually any other way right?
19:48 rhickey: cmvkk: atom is the most lightweight
19:56 brennanc: is it considered bad practice to do "(def my-func #(do-something %))" instead of "(defn my-func [x] (do-something x))"?
19:57 hiredman: I think it is
19:57 Chouser: it's not idiomatic
19:57 you won't get docstring and arglists in the metadata
19:57 hiredman: at the very least I would prefer using (fn ) to #( ) in that case
19:57 cmvkk: it seems like you're only saving about 4 characters too.
19:58 brennanc: k, thanks
20:00 hiredman: ,((partial apply identity) 1)
20:00 clojurebot: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: Integer
20:00 hiredman: I see
20:02 brennanc: I'm looking at this code in the clojure book: (defn non-blank? [line] (if (re-find #"\S" line) true false))
20:02 why is the if needed? and isn't there a better way if it is needed than explictly saying true false?
20:03 ayrnieu: brennanc - it could equivalently say (not (not (re-find ...))) ; would that be better?
20:03 Chouser: (boolean (re-find ...))
20:04 cmvkk: does re-find return nil if it doesn't find anything?
20:04 hiredman: ,(re-find #"\S" "")
20:04 clojurebot: nil
20:04 hiredman: ,(re-find #"\S" "foo")
20:04 clojurebot: "f"
20:04 hiredman: ,(re-find #"\S" " ")
20:04 clojurebot: nil
20:04 brennanc: yes, that was what I was looking for
20:04 anything that is not false or nil evaluates to true, correct?
20:04 cmvkk: so if you take the 'if' out, it will function the same as a predicate but you can also use it for if-let and stuff.
20:05 hiredman: correct
20:05 brennanc: so why would it be needed to actually cast it to a boolean
20:05 hiredman: *shrug*
20:05 cmvkk: heh
20:05 actually i guess it doesn't matter; the true value would probably be pretty useless
20:06 ayrnieu: the author was being fastidious. This is like having a side-effecting function carefully not return anything of interest.
20:38 lethalcode: Trying to compile clojure/core_print.clj gets this error: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.Exception: namespace 'clojure.core_print' not found after loading '/clojure/core_print'
20:38 Compiling clojure.core works fine, but clojure.core_print (or any other file that uses in-ns and is in a namespace that doesn't match its filename) borks.
20:39 Any easy fix?
20:41 hiredman: lethalcode: I believe compiling clojure.core should take care of core_print
20:41 the file core-print is loaded using load-file by clojure.core
20:42 (isn't it?)
20:42 Chouser: I believe that is correct.
20:42 rhickey: hiredman: right, you can only compile namespaces, core-print is not a namespace
20:43 lethalcode: Really? Because, e.g, print-sequential, print-meta, print-method, etc - aren't being turned into classes.
20:45 rhickey: core-print is a subsidiary of core and gets compiled when core does
20:45 lethalcode: Then shouldn't it be generating files such as clojure/core$print-method__blah.class ?
20:49 Chouser: classes/clojure/core$print_sequential__5231.class
20:49 rhickey: print-method is a multimethod, won't have a class, I don't understand the question - if you build clojure it compiles core - can you not build?
20:51 cp2: 'sup rhickey
20:54 lethalcode: Let me back up a bit. rhickey, don't know if you saw my earlier comments/statements - I'm building a more minimal clojure, targeting XMLVM (which will convert .class files to objective-C for iPhone development)
20:55 rhickey: lethalcode: scary
20:55 lethalcode: So to do this, I've set up a smaller compile environment for clojure.
20:55 Got most of the jvm classes pared down, I think, but clojure/core.clj at least seems to be needed.
20:56 So I've got the clojure core .clj files in the project, and am compiling them using the (full, unabridged) clojure compiler.
20:56 And dumping .class files into build/classes. There are build/classes/clojure/core$*.class from core.clj, but nothing that I can see from core_print.clj
20:57 rlb: Are the java string methods the normal way to manipulate strings (substrings, etc.)?
20:58 nevermind.
21:00 rhickey: lethalcode: I ant clean, mkdir classes, java -cp ./src:./classes:clojure.jar clojure.main, (compile 'clojure.core)
21:01 I get core$print*
21:03 lethalcode: rhickey: I'm using clojure.lang.Compile
21:04 And the only print functions I get are print, print_doc, print_namespace_doc, print_special_doc, print_str, printf, println, println_str
21:05 rhickey: lethalcode: use clojure.core/compile
21:07 gnuvince_: (doc compile)
21:07 clojurebot: Compiles the namespace named by the symbol lib into a set of classfiles. The source for the lib must be in a proper classpath-relative directory. The output files will go into the directory specified by *compile-path*, and that directory too must be in the classpath.; arglists ([lib])
21:10 lethalcode: (+ 2 2)
21:10 clojurebot: 4
21:10 lethalcode: Cool.
21:10 rhickey: As in, use Repl then (compile 'filename) instead of using clojure.lang.Compile? How do they differ?
21:10 (doc clojure.lang.Compile)
21:10 clojurebot: excusez-moi
21:11 lethalcode: (. @"hello" substring 3)
21:15 hiredman: lethalcode: compile takes a namespace
21:16 not a filename
21:16 Chouser: ,(.substring "hello" 3)
21:16 clojurebot: "lo"
21:16 hiredman: the unit of compilation is by namespace
21:17 lethalcode: (. "hello" substring 3)
21:17 Hm.
21:17 hiredman: And the unit of compilation for java.lang.Compile is file, not namespace?
21:20 hiredman: uh
21:20 you must mean clojure.lang.Compile
21:20 banisterfiend: some guy just said this about clojure, is it true? "banisterfiend, I haven't used it, but I heard its implementation is full of black magic and dark and sinister hackery."
21:20 hiredman: and that I dunno, my guess would be that it is namespace as well
21:21 ayrnieu: banister - it certainly doesn't seem that way, but you can look at it yourself.
21:21 lethalcode: hiredman: Err, yeah.
21:21 hiredman: the java source takes some getting used to, but the clojure source is very readable
21:25 Chouser: banisterfiend: nah. other than STM, it's pretty straightforward, though frequently clever.
21:26 in my opinion it's more the design than the implementation that's the key
21:26 though the STM is still magic to me. :-)


text:
- 4 Beds
- 4 Full, 1 Half
- 2,696 +/- Sqft
Property TypeResidential – Condominium
SubdivisionSettlers Lodge
Listing Date03/02/20
Year Built2001
AreaBachelor Gulch
ParkingMulti-Car, Unassigned
Property Description
Great attention to detail has been put into the mountain modern dcor and furnishings throughout each room of this newly completed residence. Magnificent south facing windows offer incredible views overlooking Bachelor Gulch ski mountain with incredible ski-in and ski-out access to perfectly groomed ski slopes. The spacious open living room is expansive and very comfortable for everyone to gather, along with a generous balcony offering indoor and outdoor living experience .
Presented By
- Bus Route
- Ski In
- Ski Out
- Mountains
- Ski Slopes
- South Facing
- Cross Country Trails
- Fitness Center
- Health Club Membership
- Hiking/Pedestrian Trail
- On Bus Line
- Pool
- Shuttle Service
- Tennis Courts
- Fireplace - Gas
- Vaulted Ceilings
- Pool
- Shuttle Service
- Spa and Hot Tub
- Tennis
- Cable TV
- City Sewer
- City Water
- Electricity Avail.
- Natural Gas Avail.
- Phone Available
- Snow Removal
- Trash Pickup
- Baseboard
- Ceiling Fan
- Dryer
- Washer
Financial Information
2 Beds 2.5 Baths
5 Beds 5.5 Baths
5 Beds 5.5 Baths
5 Beds 6.5 Baths
4 Beds 4.5 Baths
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Copyright © 2020 Vail Multi List, Inc. (VMLS). The information displayed herein was derived from sources believed to be accurate, but has not been verified by VMLS. Buyers are cautioned to verify all information to their own satisfaction. This information is exclusively for viewers' personal, non- commercial use. Any republication or reproduction of the information herein without the express permission of the VMLS is strictly prohibited.
Listing courtesy of Slifer Smith & Frampton/281 Bridge Street

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[2019 Edition]
See AFMC PGI 5335.006-90.
See AFMC PGI 5335.007-90.
5335.015-70 Special Use Allowances for Research Facilities Acquired by Educational Institutions
(c) See MP5301.601(a)(i).
(d)(3)(ii) See MP5301.601(a)(i).
See SMC PGI 5335.017-3.
See SMC PGI 5335.017-90.
5335.070-1 Indemnification Under Research and Development Contracts
(a) The authority to approve requests for indemnification for unusually hazardous risks under 10 U.S.C. 2354 is delegated to the following officials, without power to relegate: AFMC/PK SCO, AFLCMC/PK SCO and SMC/PK SCO.


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Congratulations on the choice to commence a health care career as a phlebotomist! People are exploring phlebotomy certification in Kansas for many reasons:
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Archive for the 'Social Responsibilites' Category
Of Chetan Bhagat, Twitter And Detractors
Posted by: IRFAN on: August 28, 2013
How difficult or challenging it may be to become Chetan Bhagat? In other words, what it feels like to be Chetan Bhagat. Chetan Bhagat is not new to controversies. Whether controversies love him or he loves them is difficult to say. Those who follow Chetan Bhagat on Twitter, read his articles and books and watch films based on his books know that Chetan Bhagat and controversies are always within kissing distance of each other.
One wrong or politically incorrect word in a tweet can land him in a controversy. This is what seems to have happened today. Nowadays the word 'rape' sends a chill when used in public discourse or in a tweet. Due to two incidents of gang rapes in the recent past, there are those who believe that the use of word 'rape' must be avoided at all costs. And if a celebrity and a Youth Icon like Chetan Bhagat who has lakhs of followers on Twitter ought to think more than twice before using the R word in a tweet that's likely to get hundreds of RTs and Favourites.
While slamming the slide of rupee, he used the R word in a tweet. Unfortunately, the ill-fated tweet stirred up hornet's nest and outrage was so deafening that he had to delete that tweet. This spontaneous outrage over the use of R word in a tweet by a best selling author raises many serious questions.
It is agreed that rape is a beastly crime and the rapist deserves the harshest possible punishment. By committing rape, a rapist violates not only his victim's dignity but her entire existence. Those who follow the current affairs would know that Indian rupee has been falling as if there were no tomorrow. This unabated fall of rupee is raising serious concerns. Economists are worried at this alarming trend and to make the matter worse, there's no trick in sight to arrest the fall of rupee. The ruling class is equally clueless and what we get from the powers that be are false assurances and free advice to remain calm even as the rupee fall continues to break all previous records.
Now if this brazen disregard with which the ruling class is dealing with the falling rupee is not rape of rupee, then what is it? If Chetan Bhagat demands punishment for this continuous rape of rupee, what's the problem? Why should he be subjected to the lectures on the usages of certain words in popular discourse? There's an entire army of self-proclaimed conscience keepers out there against Chetan Bhagat and his use of R word in a tweet. Are they not going overboard in taking him to task?
In spite of incidents of rapes in metros like New Delhi and Mumbai, the Hindi films often portray heroes stalking heroines with a view to wooing them. This is exactly what rapists are supposed to do. They stalk their victims before striking. Why doesn't anybody raise their voice against such scenes in films that glorify stalking? There are songs in which heroes tease heroines and call them by names. This type of behaviour in real life amounts to eve-teasing if emulated on streets. Why don't we ever hear even so much as a whimper of protest against such songs?
Nothing can justify these potshots against Chetan Bhagat. His tweet was subjected to unfair scrutiny, criticism and vilification. It is sad to see that he had to delete that tweet because his detractors were out their with knives to misinterpret it. Another sad thing is he often gets unsolicited advice on English grammar and usage of right words at the right places on public platforms like Twitter.
It must really be extremely tough to be Chetan Bhagat. One wonders how he copes with so much scrutiny and not to mention unfair criticism. But he often comes across as a brave underdog who keeps doing his job no matter what others think and say about him. He doesn't mind getting pilloried. Maybe he knows that what great heights he has achieved both as a popular writer of fiction and a Youth Icon are exactly what not many (read his detractors) can digest. And this is precisely why his path will continue to be infested with thorns.
Poor Chetan Bhagat. He is someone who keeps dodging bullets and yet manages to write best selling novels that get converted into super-hit films and columns that create controversies and debates. As I've often argued on this platform, if Chetan Bhagat's detractors are successful in muting or dumbing down Chetan Bhagat's spontaneity, then Twitter won't be half of as much fun as it is today.
I wish his detractors are forced to eat an humble pie yet another time and Chetan Bhagat comes out smelling of roses this time too.
A Secret Letter to Mr. Pankaj Pachauri
Posted by: IRFAN on: July 11, 2013
- In: Humour | Morality | MP | Nature | News Satire | Politicians | Politics | Satire | Scandal | Social Media | Social Responsibilites
- 1 Comment
Dear Pankaj Pachauri Sir,
Pratap Bhanu Mehta's Indian Express column 'While we were silent' has created buzz throughout the day. You were right in saying that our country progressed while he was asleep. Pratap Bhanu Mehta's column seems to have touched some raw nerve and it has indeed found many takers. Forget about takers, those takers are mostly on Twitter and Facebook. We need not take them seriously. But can you please explain to me as to how a person can remain asleep for nine years at a stretch?
Okay, sir. Just don't give me any explanation. You are in a very influential position. You know better. When you say Mr. So-and-so had been asleep for almost a decade, one must believe your words without an iota of doubt. Sir, Mr. PBM must have received a serious shock when you rolled out statistics along with graphs and tables.
One look at the statistics tweeted by is enough to convince anyone that employment has doubled. The corpus of PF for private sector employees has increased four fold. Agriculture wages have increased. Poverty has declined in the country. Telecom sector is booming. Rural tele density has crossed 40 from 1.5. As far as freedom is concerned, millions of Indians have used the RTI to keep an eye on public expenditure as a tool of transparency. Roads too are built.
The graphs are impressive. The data is mind blowing. The progress is enormous. India has never been in such safer hands before. Nobody must be in doubts now. Those who praised 'While we were silent' and jumped with joy have gone into hiding now as their joy has proved to be so short-lived.
Sir, there are a few things that you could have done well to include in your tweets. Those omitted statistics would have made stunning graphs. Even those things our countrymen deserve to know. Please allow me to share them with you in case you had been asleep while they were happening. It is quite possible, isn't it?
As far as poverty is concerned, it has indeed declined. How? Commonwealth Games wasted public fund only to the meagre tune of 101.02 crore. It is just a small bucket from a big ocean. Remember coalgate? Only 1,85,591lc. And then comes 2G spectrum. Again a paltry 309,845.5 but according to Mr. Kapil Sibbal 'zero loss'.
After taking care of poverty, UPA regime moved heaven and earth to provide roof above people's head and built The Adarsh Housing Society that captured the imagination of the whole country. It has contributed to banking sector also significantly by way of money laundering. Since India is a rich country and people have started resorting to air travel, the Railway was neglected. But UPA infused fresh lease of life into the Railways with the help of appointment scams.
Sir, another achievement that you seemed to have overlooked is Ashwani Kumar and Pawan Kumar Bansal voluntarily resigned from the posts of Ministers on the same day to mentor young and upcoming leaders of India. Our investigative agencies have no work left to do. Therefore, UPA has asked them to bring Salman Khurshid and Sriprakash Jaiswal under their scanners. Subodh Kant Sahai and MS Gill were dropped from cabinet to give more work to rusting investigative agencies.
What else? A Raja, Kanimozhi and Suresh Kalmadi visited the Tihar jail to examine the conditions prevalent in India's jails. They spent great deal of time behind bars to prepare detailed reports to table before the Parliament.
The achievement that takes the cake is 15th Lok Sabha is likely to go down as the most disrupted house in history.
Sir, please do include these achievements in your graphical tweets next time.
Thank you.
Jai Hind.
Ramzan Mubarak
Posted by: IRFAN on: July 11, 2013
The holy month of Ramzan is here. This is ninth month of Islamic Calendar. The month of Ramzan is special to the followers of Islam worldwide in more ways than one. Whenever the month of Ramzan arrives, people think that during this month Muslims observe fasts. In other words, a person who is observing fast doesn't take food and drink water from the sun rise until the sun set.
In theory this is true. During fast, the observer of fast must neither eat nor drink anything. But there's still more. The Arabic word for "fasting" is "sawm." The literal meaning of this word is "to refrain." To elaborate further, fasting is not only refrain from food and drink but also refraining from evil actions, thoughts and words.
The person who is observing fast must offer prayers five times a day. He must not look at unlawful things. His hands must stay from committing unlawful activities. He must not indulge in gossiping or bad mouthing others. Since this month is a time of enhanced devotion and prayers, one is supposed to refrain from sexual relations and behaviour. In a nutshell, the entire body (not just mouth) must observe the fast.
The purpose of this holy month is to redirect the heart away from the worldly activities and reevaluate one's life vis-a-vis the teachings of Islam, and thereby achieve cleansing or purification of the soul.
This holy month teaches Muslims self-discipline, self-control, sacrifice and empathy for the underprivileged. This month encourages acts of generosity and compulsory charity known as Zaka'at.
Why is Ramzan the most sacred month in Islamic Calendar? It was during this month that the prophet Mohammed received revelations of the holy Quran. And this is precisely why the repeated reciting of the Quran during Ramzan is highly recommended.
Ramzan Mubarak.
Rs 1.82 : A Salesman's Curse
Posted by: IRFAN on: June 28, 2013
- In: Humour | Injustice | News Satire | Politicians | Politics | Satire | Social Media | Social Responsibilites | Twitter Trends
- Leave a Comment
So much is happening in our country. Brave hearts are dying while undertaking rescue operations in Uttarakhand. Politicians are squabbling over who rescued how many people trapped amidst ruins. News anchors are grilling all and sundry under the comfortable guise of the-nation-wants-to-know. New films are hitting the cinema halls. Indian Cricket Team led by MS Dhoni is winning cups after cups. Rahul Gandhi is holidaying in some far flung country where nobody can reach him. The rupee is falling down at breathtaking speed. The list is long as so many things all around us are happening.
Amidst all this ha ha hoopla comes the news that the price of petrol is all set to receive yet another hike. This time around the hike is Rs 1.82 per litre. This means to say petrol became dearer once again. The timing of this news couldn't have come at a more critical juncture. The country is yet to recover from the trauma and shock of Uttrakhand calamity in which several thousands have perished and a few hundreds have gone missing. The Congress and BJP are locked in a bitter fight over allegations of fake encounters that took place several years ago.
When nobody has time to protest or question the latest petrol hike, this hike has quietly surfaced from nowhere. And it seems that the culprits behind this latest petrol hike will go scot-free. Who cares for aam admi? A hike of few rupees isn't a big deal anyway. The ruling party seems to cock a snook at aam admi at regular intervals by hiking the petrol price. Isn't it worried about losing the votes of middle class? Has middle class stopped mattering to the ruling elite? Why then is this politics with the prices of petrol?
There are no political or social commentators out there at the moment who can possibly justify so many frequent petrol hikes. Everybody is busy with something or the other. The rich have cars and to them a hike of a couple of rupees every now and then doesn't matter. The poor have two wheelers. The poor salesmen working in the metros get peanuts as their daily allowances. The dilemma is how to manage with such meagre allowances. The choice is between the food and the petrol. If a hapless salesman starves himself to save money for petrol, he cannot give effective presentation before his client.
If he cannot give effective presentation, his sales will suffer. As a result his productivity will come down. Once that happens, bosses will keep an eye on him and if things don't change, poor salesman will get marching orders. If he compromises on petrol and keeps his two wheeler under nourished, naturally he cannot run around for appointments on time. Competitors will take advantage and slowly salesman will be out of business. Whichever way we look at the petrol price hike, a poor salesman is at a loss. For him it is like Devil and the Deep Sea.
Poor ruling party has ignored salesmen as its important constituents hook, line and sinker. This petrol price hike will surely push it out of power. All the salesmen are eagerly waiting for the General Elections. Let the party begin now.
Rahul Gandhi & Newspaper Boy
Posted by: IRFAN on: May 13, 2013
Today world saw a new side of Rahul Gandhi. Since he is a shy politician and avoids publicity, his PR was instructed not to blow the incident out of proportion. But somehow this incident has come to light and everybody is talking about it. Obviously, Rahul Gandhi is livid and has decided to fire his PR for this gaffe.
In a nutshell, the much talked about story goes like this. A young boy knocks at the window of a car in which Rahul Baba is travelling. It turns out that the young boy wants to sell Rahul Baba a newspaper. Though Rahul Baba has already read all the dailies of the day on his mini iPad, he doesn't want to disappoint the young boy and buys a paper from him. Rahul Baba pays him 1000 rupees for a single newspaper after inquiring as to why he was not at school.
This is the story being peddled by the PR chaps hired by RG Baba. The whole world seems to have lapped it up without doubt. But insiders are miffed at what is being told to the people. The real story is totally different. All of a sudden the AC of Rahul Baba's car broke down. Now this is the summer season. Unfortunately, the support staff had forgotten to carry tissues with which Rahul Baba could wipe his sweat beads on forehead. Suddenly, they saw this boy selling newspapers at the traffic signal.
The support staff approached the boy and purchased all his newspapers for one thousand rupees. They took those papers with the sole intention of converting them into tissues for Rahul Baba. The overzealous PR managers saw some opportunity to market the generous side of RG in this incident and rolled out a narrative depicting RG as the messiah of boys across the country selling newspapers at traffic signals.
Soon this story found many takers much to the delight of PR guys. But their joy proved to be short-lived, and; alarm bells began to ring when the news that the crew of a foreign news channel was looking for this newspaper boy for an interview reached the PR chaps. They pressed the panic button and came out with the story of this boy having been picked up for education, and; hence unavailable to appear before media.
According to sources close to Rahul Gandhi, the ministers are unhappy with these turns of the events. They know that the end is nigh and the last days in the office ought to be spent plundering the national wealth. There is no time left for them to provide education to the boy hand-picked by Baba at a traffic signal let alone arrange employment for lucky boy's beleaguered father whose dream is to become a doctor when he grows up.
Leader of Goat Writes an Open Letter
Posted by: IRFAN on: May 10, 2013
- In: Humour | Injustice | Morality | News Satire | Politicians | Politics | Satire | Scandal | Social Media | Social Responsibilites | Twitter Trends
- Leave a Comment
Dear Ministers & Political Leaders,
I am the leader of all the goats and lambs in India. The intention of this open letter is to make the voice of my community members heard. My name is Lamb and I live in the vicinity of 10 Janpath. Today one of our community members has made our community proud.
At the young age of seven months, Chulbul has sacrificed herself to save the portfolio of one of the ministers who finds himself embroiled into the charges of corruption. Our intelligence report suggests that demand for my young community members is only going to go up as more scandals are likely to tumble out in the days leading to the general elections.
The mango man of this country may not know why high and mighty sacrifice young members of my community. Today one goat is sacrificed. And thanks to TV news channels entire country has come to know the important role we goats and lambs play in running the governments at both central and state levels.
The secret behind sacrificing us is we have direct connection with god. We can enter god's room any time without knocking. We can barge into any high level meeting god is presiding over. We can wake up god from sleep any time. God loves us. He listens to our pleas and requests. He is accessible to us any time. This is why when our netas are in neck deep troubles, they come knocking at our doors. Before sending us to the Heaven, they tell the member who is chosen what exact message they want delivered to god.
This practise has been in fashion since time immemorial. Netas belonging to the ruling party (at the Centre) are our prime customers as more often than not it is they who end up as the targets of opposition's sting operations and are exposed. When they fall out of High Command's good books, they seek divine intervention and get in touch with us.
We never fail to deliver. My members are trained specifically for the purpose carrying netas' messages to god in code languages so that the opposition doesn't know what messages have gone up there. After my member reaches up there, Party High Command changes her/his mind within no time and ministers about to be shown the door are promoted up the order. The spin doctors successfully dress up that promotion of minister as some sort of punishment for the alleged misdeeds to calm down growing anger of mango men.
However, what is sad is after using our services the political class keep us at arm's length. In many cases, ministers have promised the kith and kin of sacrificed members jobs and various government perks entitled to the VVIPs. But there has been no change in the condition of my community. None of the promises has been kept to our dismay. Even media persons ignored and refused to cover us for fear of offending the political class.
Today let it be known to the entire world that next sacrifice will not happen until special quotas in railways and civil aviation are reserved for my community members. The kith and kin of Chulbul (the goat sacrificed today) have placed a demand on record that one percent of amount taken in bribe must immediately be shared with them. Unless this happens, minister's message will not be delivered to god and minister will get the boot in all likelihood.
I sincerely hope that following world wide attention we have received on social networking sites, netas will learn a lesson and start treating us with the respect we deserve.
Yours Faithfully.
All India Leader of Goat and Sheep Association.
IPL and Sanjay Dutt
Posted by: IRFAN on: March 28, 2013
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The IPL marketing managers have, so far, failed to arouse both interest and enthusiasm amongst the viewers. How they are going to grab the eyeballs is a million dollar question on every one's mind. If, at all, IPL has dominated the news headlines; it has done so for all the wrong reasons. A couple of days ago there was a news item about the Sri Lankan players not allowed to play the IPL matches in Chennai.
Fortunately or unfortunately, the politicians have started using IPL as a tool to settle their political scores. Cricketers and the cricket managers have been deprived of an opportunity to milk IPL for their personal popularity and gains. Be that as it may, the fact that IPL is likely to prove to be a damp squib this time around has left the organisers a worried lot. Suddenly they have realised that the cricket fatigue is setting and the upcoming edition of IPL is yet to find many takers.
Since the stakes are high and big bucks are riding on the success of this IPL tournament, the strategy makers have gone into a huddle so as to come out with a winning formula that makes this edition of IPL a super success. The major stakeholders in IPL are not the players but beleaguered businessman like Vijay Mallya who is hoping that his team RCB will turn around the fortunes of debt ridden KFA and employees will finally receive their much awaited salaries.
In terms of debts, inflated egos, political rivalries and sinking popularity, there is indeed a lot that is at stake with regards to IPL. This IPL edition is a make or break for many stakeholders including players in more ways than one. Keeping all these factors in mind, the marketing in-charge of IPL has got a few game changing ideas in one of the brain storming sessions.
This self proclaimed reporter filed an RTI to get the minutes of the strategy meet of the IPL marketing team. According to the highly confidential documents available with this reporter, in the said meeting, a unanimous decision has been taken to withdraw all TV commercials featuring Farah Khan whose irritating dance moves have enraged the viewers world wide. There were reports of a few frustrated viewers having smashed their TV sets as soon as the ad had appeared on their TV screens. Somehow the IPL organising committee managed to stop those news items from making it to the headlines of the newspapers and TV news channels.
However, with less than a week to go before the IPL tournament gets underway, all is not lost. The think tank has been surfing the latest trends in the cyberspace. The startling revelation is Justice Katju. His open letters have got an uncanny knack of ending up as the talk of the nation. These MBA guys have reportedly roped in Mr. Justice Katju to write an open letter to the cricket lovers. In his soon to come out open letter – the draft of which is being carefully reviewed – he is going to cite example of how this IPL edition is different from the previous ones and why watching IPL will improve the overall IQ of the nation and how each countryman will be doing a great service to the nation by watching those games.
This move will really hit the bull's eye and do wonders for IPL and its popularity. In addition to Katju's open letter, Sanjay Dutt has been roped in to file a petition in the court requesting that he be granted time till IPL is over to surrender. In the run up to the final date of IPL, a lot many things are expected to make the IPL tournament the top most trending topics across various online social platforms.
Marketing is an art of making the shit hit the fan. Once the shit hits the fan, there's no looking back. The IPL marketers are just going to do that. After all, isn't everything fair in love and war?


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