text:
Heirs: Episode 9
by javabeans
There's a whole lotta fighting in this episode, without the makeup smoochies to make it worth all the bruising and angst. And most of that has to do with this guy right here—and yunno, I get why Young-do is arguably the most dynamic character in the bunch and therefore the most interesting, in that he is wild and unpredictable and played by an actor with charisma.
On the other hand, there are many things in this world that I find fascinating that I don't necessarily like, respect, or care to have anywhere near me. Serial killers, for instance, or the bubonic plague. Interesting does not equate to sympathetic, and in that regard I find much of this drama's central conflict hard to swallow, since I just don't get it; I'm half-convinced Young-do is descended from cavemen, or maybe aliens. Although, Cavemen Alien Idols—now there's a show I'd watch.
Thomas Cook – "청춘" (Youth). If you're thinking this voice is familiar, it's because Jung Soon-yong was previously part of the band My Aunt Mary, which is a band I've missed.
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After Young-do's cafeteria terrorizing, Tan finds Eun-sang crying on the roof and stops her from answering Young-do's call by moving in for a kiss. I do dearly wish their first kiss were more about wanting to kiss than, say, staking a claim over your rival, but I think I have to give up hopes of that drama ever happening in this world.
Tan has grabbed her by the wrist, and the phone (which has accepted the call) falls out of her grasp. Gah, I hate that subtext So Damn Much, that he has subdued the girl's protests with his manly romantic aggressiveness. This writer.
Tan breaks the kiss and warns her not to answer calls from Young-do, or he'll go crazy and also kill Young-do: "I have no middle ground." Is that supposed to be romantic? That's an honest question. I feel like I'm in alienromanceland and need an interpreter.
Eun-sang hurries away, missing more of Young-do's incoming calls, though he sees her on her way down and grabs her by the wrist. She flings his hand off angrily, and gratifyingly he looks a bit stunned at that (as though tripping her and smearing her with lunch earned him a better response?).
Myung-soo wonders at Young-do's behavior, pointing out that he never bullied girls before. Nice to know you had boundaries. Young-do says that this time was different—he tripped Eun-sang "because I wanted to know how I would feel if I did that." Biggest facepalm in the history of the world, insert here. Myung-soo tells him that if he's interested he ought to confess rather than bully.
Bo-na finds Eun-sang washing her soiled jacket in the bathroom and shoves a change of clothes at her. Aw, I love how she's grudgingly coming around, even though she says grumpily that she's only doing it because of Chan-young. Or maybe it's because she's so reluctant to care that makes it all the more endearing.
Tan spots Young-do in the lobby and charges at him, which erupts into a full-fledged fight. A crowd gathers in no time and Rachel guesses at the cause, which explains (I guess) why she finds Eun-sang in the bathroom and yanks on her hair. Oy. When did this turn into a Neanderthals: A Love Story?
Eun-sang and Bo-na hear about the fight and run to the scene, which has been interrupted by students pulling the boys apart. Into the mix comes Madam/Director Jung, who's all, "You two again?"
She calls them in for an explanation and gets none, the boys as tight-lipped as ever. But this time won't get glossed over with a lecture, and she states that they'll investigate footage to see exactly who started it, and states that she won't have them putting a stain on her workplace—they get to graduate and leave, but this is her career.
Young-do pokes at Tan's sore spot on their way out, taunting that his mother worried about her career more than his safety, saying that it must because she's not his biological mother. God, can you shut it with the mom barbs? It's one thing to be a charming smartass, but now he's turning into a one-trick bully. Young-do smirks, "Aren't you all wound up to know when and how I'll use the 'Kim Tan is Jeguk Group's Illegitimate Son' card?"
Tan is unfazed: "You can't use that card. Without it, you're nothing, and you can't do anything to me." Boo-urns.
Eun-sang worries with Chan-young, thinking that she's been marked as the new bullying target (it hasn't even occurred to her that Young-do's interest may lie elsewhere). Chan-young promises to fight on her side, but worries about something worse than her status being revealed: Tan liking her. That would open her up to even more abuse.
He explains that the school is full of kids who'd dearly love to see Tan fall, but aren't able to go after him directly—so if they found out he likes Eun-sang, they'd go after her as punishment by proxy. That's how he interprets Young-do's attacks on her, in fact.
Tan waits outside the front gate for Eun-sang, first putting on his teasing face to pout about his injuries. He doesn't get much of a reaction and switches to his serious face, getting upset when she tries to brush aside his attempt to talk.
Big Bro interrupts with his arrival, and Eun-sang quickly heads inside. Tan tries to talk to him about moving back home, but Won counters, "Then do you want to be the one moving to a hotel?" Tan insists he doesn't want to take anything away from his hyung, but Won replies that Jeguk Group decides Tan's feelings for him, and therefore Tan's very existence is a thorn in his side: "That's what being an illegitimate son is."
Tan rattles off a warning text to Eun-sang telling her to stay away from the wine cellar tonight, to avoid a run-in with Won. Cut to: the wine cellar, said run-in already in progress.
Eun-sang cowers nervously, but Won is polite as he makes small talk and says it was nice seeing her again. Won grabs some wine and heads to his hotel, where Hyun-joo waits for him. He's waylaid in the lobby by Rachel, however, and he invites her for a cup of tea, leaving Hyun-joo unseen and deflated.
Rachel comments on Tan's bruised face, saying that he fought over a girl, and Won has a pretty good idea of who that girl is. It's too bad a Won-Rachel pairing seems unlikely (not merely because of the age gap but because of Hyun-joo's presence), because I think these two are at their best when they're together. They're even able to make wry comments about their own weak spots, which you'd never see them admit to other people.
And so, our main love triangle spends the night in meaningful flashbacks and broody stares. Young-do looks particularly mopey, but I'm a bit confused as to why I should feel sorry for him, and so I don't. Moving along.
Tan gets up extra early the next morning to take Eun-sang to school, waiting for well over an hour before realizing that she left even earlier just to avoid him.
She's absent from school, and Tan and Young-do take turns casting dark looks at her empty seat in class. That goes noticed by Rachel and Chan-young— it's a veritable stare-o-go-round. You practically expect that chair to burst into flames from all the concentrated attention it's getting. The second the bell rings, Tan bolts from class to go in search of her.
She's spent the day wandering the city streets in a funk, killing time. The school calls her mother to ask about her absence, and as Mom cannot speak, the caller hangs up. Still, she mutters enough about Eun-sang's truancy to give Mom the general idea.
Tan calls Chan-young for ideas on where to find Eun-sang, and gets directed to a certain free movie theater where she sometimes goes. Sure enough, Tan finds her sitting in the audience, and watches her throughout the screening.
He follows her out, keeping his distance until she stops in front of a storefront to look at the dreamcatchers in the window. He then takes her by the hand (thank you) and pulls her along, informing her that he won't let go even if she tells him that she's causing his life more damage. I'd argue that the reverse is more true, but in any case he keeps his grip firm and says, "I'll keep going like this, and if I do, you'll still be there at the end of the road, won't you?"
But she says no, pulling her hand from him in a meaningful slo-mo edit, telling him that she will have long run away. He vows to find her anyway, but she urges him not to because she'll have nowhere to retreat. In frustration, Tan asks what he's supposed to do when he likes her this much, and she actually admits to liking him back—it's a bit of a surprise to be dropped with such little fanfare, but I like it better for the way that her delivery emphasizes that her feelings aren't the point. Liking each other doesn't solve anything.
She points out that nobody knows about his family background, reminding him, "You can't protect me. Worry about protecting yourself."
That lands with him, and Tan takes that in for a long, hard second… and then turns and walks away. What? Way to give up, bro.
Young-do uses Eun-sang's visa information to track down her old address, which confirms that she's no rich kid. I suppose you could argue that she moved out of the place after a recent windfall made her rich, but this is enough to confirm his hunch.
Hyo-shin gets a new tutor after Hyun-joo quits. Hyo-shin ignores his new tutor and sends Hyun-joo a product-placement-laden message asking how she could quit without saying goodbye. She replies about sending over materials, and he sighs that he'll always be a student in her eyes. Well, yes, have you seen Won?
Hyun-joo takes another meeting with Manager Yoon, and now we find out the reason for their regular contact: She's been offered a position with Jeguk Group. She understands that if she were to take it, this would be publicized in the news, and she'd be touted as a successful case of a Jeguk-sponsored plebeian making good on their investment. And that, essentially, keeps her as Jeguk's puppet.
Hearing Hyun-joo's take on it makes Manager Yoon wonder anew at whether it's such a good thing for his son to be going to Jeguk High as one of those charity cases. Or Eun-sang. He'd sent Chan-young there thinking to take advantage of its resources and connections, but now he's not sure.
Eun-sang gets harassed at the cafe by a couple of rich high school kids who pressure her for her number. She warns them that she'll call the cops if they don't back off, but before anybody can challenge the threat, Young-do shows up to kick over the prats. He recognizes them from middle school, and they know enough about him to skedaddle on sight.
Young-do's feeling cocky for playing the white knight, though Eun-sang is far from keeling over in gratitude. He sniffs that if she's going to be bullied, she should be bullied by HIM, not those wimps, which… there's so much wrong with that statement I can't even. I have lost the ability to even, where Young-do's concerned.
Eun-sang snaps that he's way worse than they are, and asks why he's made her his next bullying target. He tells her he saw her old house and starts to threaten her with that info, but she cuts him off to say that yeah, she's a charity case, so what? Is he going to chase her away too?
To her great shock, he says frankly that he likes her. Well then.
At home, Tan resorts to scanning the house's CCTV screens for sign of Eun-sang (secret surveillance is romantic, not creepy! Said no one ever). He finds her sitting outside the house and starts to go after her, but refrains when he sees her mother joining her there.
Mom understands that Eun-sang is going through hard times at school, which is why she doesn't rip into her for playing hooky. Eun-sang is touched at Mom's consideration and assures her that her tough spell was only temporary, and that she'll be back at school tomorrow.
The next day, Eun-sang ignores the stares and gossip as she returns to school, and when she and Tan run into each other in the hallway, they make a pointed effort to pass in silence, as though they're strangers.
Rachel corners her wearing her usual bitchface to sneer that she thought Eun-sang was quitting. She states that she and Tan are engaged, which in their world means that their respective companies have made a deal to join assets, and it's Eun-sang who has wriggled her way in the middle of a massive business deal. Therefore Rachel feels justified in demanding, "Who the hell are you?" Eun-sang merely tells her she'll know soon enough, since Young-do knows the truth.
Mom gets another call about the parent-teacher meeting, and looks to Madam Han with pleading eyes. So Madam Han answers the phone for her and lets the PTA chair assume she's Eun-sang's mother, though she barely gets in a word before essentially being ordered to show up to the PTA meeting.
Madam Han huffs at the rudeness, then decides maybe she'll go to the meeting after all, screw the rules (which basically keep her housebound so that the outside world doesn't know she's the mistress). Mom scrawls a warning that "You'll get found out as concubine" before scribbling out the offending word concubine—ha, how can you put your foot in your mouth when you're writing?
But Madam Han says coyly, "Who said I'd go as Tan's mother?" Hahaha. Okay, this is a pretty great turn.
So Madam Han arrives at school in all her finery and hauteur, and the room full of wealthy matrons puzzles over the new face. She announces herself as Eun-sang's mother, and if anything, this is the absolute perfect woman to play up Eun-sang's image as nouveau riche, without even having planned it. (Elegant clothes with just a hint of gauche, the slightest ditz tone to her voice…) Talk about serendipity.
The mothers discuss an upcoming leadership camp for the students, and parents are thanked for their generous sponsorship. With Rachel's mother and Young-do's father earning all the praise, Madam Han charges forward and volunteers to handle the leftover slots—all of them.
Then she hears that Director Jung is on her way in and has a mild moment of panic, haha. Director Jung narrows her eyes to see La Concubine at the table, but plays along with her ruse as Eun-sang's mother. Madam Han gets caught up praising Tan to the skies, which is hilarious given how inappropriate her familiarity sounds to everyone's ears. She lies that she heard about Tan from Eun-sang, who gushes about him, and how she'd want him for a son-in-law if she had a daughter. Director Jung: "You do have a daughter." Ha, I had a feeling her brainpower wasn't quite up to the demands of such an elaborate lie.
Director Jung follows Madam Han to the bathroom to rip into her for this stunt, warning her to use her mothering energy on her son so that he doesn't fight all the time. Madam Han sniffs that boys will be boys, not that the childless Director Jung would know. She also takes a jab at that shrewish-looking woman among the group (Rachel's mother), only to be told that that's her future in-law.
The threat of endangering Tan's engagement, at least, has Madam Han deflating. But she's already made an impression on the other mothers, who get on the phone to find out about Eun-sang's family.
In class, Eun-sang is pestered by some girls to prove her rich status, either with a parent's or company name. Tan tries to ignore the conversation, but it's Young-do who beats him to the punch by telling the lead harasser to back off.
It's enough to stop the questioning for now, and then Myung-soo comes bursting in with news of the PTA meeting. He crows that Eun-sang's mother showed up in the best clothes, the best car, and bowled over the whole meeting. Plus, she offered to pay for practically everything on the class trip.
Eun-sang and Tan are stunned, Young-do is confused, and Rachel bristles to be proven wrong. After school, she pumps her mother for information and hears that Eun-sang's mother was carrying an exclusive handbag that even Rachel's mother hadn't been able to buy.
Bo-na puzzles over the gossip, knowing it to be impossible, while her friend is mortified at being told off by Young-do. (I'm thinking crush.)
Tan and Young-do get stuck with clean-up duty as punishment, and they both try to pawn off the task on each other. Young-do goes in for his favorite cheap shot ("Why, you wanna go home to your birth mommy?"), and Tan fires back with one of his own ("Was your mother at the PTA meeting? Oh right. She ran away"). Young-do chafes at that, but Tan reminds him that it was Young-do who started things, both then and now.
Madam Han is positively chipper about her trip to the PTA meeting, though Tan scolds her for it. A bit tearfully, says she was just curious—she wanted to know what his friends' families were like, and what school parents do. Tan relents and asks his mother to cut her drinking, and she agrees.
A surprise visitor drops by, catching Tan off-guard: Young-do strolls in with a gleam in his eye and pointedly asks where his mother is (the school director) so he can say hello. Madam Han tries to make a discreet exit, and Young-do stops her to ask for a glass of water, treating her like the maid. Aw, and poor Madam Han bows her head and agrees. That's really sad.
Tan stops her, though, calling her "Mom" openly and introducing her directly to Young-do. Even she knows this is against the rules and protests, but Tan doesn't wilt and orders Young-do out for a chat.
Outside, Tan says that Young-do has proven himself to be a bastard beyond all expectation, and says he's barking up the wrong tree if he's doing all this just to see Tan kneeling at his feet. And then, Young-do gets distracted with a wholly unexpected sight: Eun-sang, marching up the walk, distracted (as ever) with her phone.
By the time they all realize what's going on, it's too late. "Jackpot," Young-do smiles.
God, Young-do. He's really ruining the show for me, which was definitely not one of my concerns when I heard Kim Woo-bin was cast as the rival. My problem isn't that he's a violent asshole, because though those are undesirable traits, admittedly you can make that kind of character sympathetic with the right set of circumstances. My problem is that I have no idea what the hell is driving Young-do, and therefore his actions seem to be not the rebellion of tortured youth, or the misguided actions of a boy seeking love. Instead, I see a loose cannon who likes stirring the pot for the sake of his own amusement, and who delights in others' pain, most of all when he's the cause.
Let's say Young-do isn't that guy, which would frankly make my day because that guy would be a sociopath. Let's say he really is misunderstood, and that there's a decent human being underneath the psycho suit, and we're just waiting for that vulnerable layer to peek out (and with real, fleshed-out reasons that amount to more than "Kim Woo-bin stares really well").
Well, in that case the writing has failed you mightily, because I don't get you, Young-do. What do you want? Attention? A hug? A cookie?
Tan was also a puzzler this episode, in that he was literally vowing to hold onto Eun-sang forevah and hunt her down if she left, and then she reminds him about his parentage issue (which he's known about his whole life), and he's all, "Oh. Right. Backing away now." What the heck, Tan? I get that you're weak, I get that you're a puppet to your father and his corporation, and I even get that that is part of your appeal as a hero (with a trajectory away from those things, that is). And I am certainly willing to understand that he is choosing to disengage from life as a defense mechanism.
It's just that I thought the point of the show would be to move him away from that and allow him to find himself. I think at halfway through a run, it is not asking for too much to have your characters grow, or even look like they may be pointing in the direction of future growth. But I don't get that from any character in the whole show, and that is frustrating.
I did, however, love Madam Han impersonating Eun-sang, and for that scene alone I found this episode enjoyable. (Only just.) I hope this is more than a one-off joke, because Madam Han is one of the best characters around and by nature of her place in the story she has been cut off from the rest of the cast. With this excuse to insert herself into the mix, there might be room for a lot more fun.
Tags: featured, Heirs, Kim Ji-won, Kim Woo-bin, Lee Min-ho, Park Shin-hye
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just slowly
getting interesting...
very SLOW
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i feel bad for Choi Jin Hyuk and other supporting cast, they were underused in this drama.
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I just don't get this drama yet. Like, who exactly are we supposed to be rooting for and why? I feel like the writers are setting up an elaborate back story for the main "in the future years"(if that makes sense). Maybe we're getting the hormonal adolescent stage for a greater set-up of the characters as the twenty year old adults we know these actors really are. And it BUGS me to NO end, to see Lee Min Ho in these type cast roles. Like COME ON! The guy has obvious star qualities, but no one has tapped into those great acting skills because of popular fluff like this.
Heirs for me right now is the alternative to Secret, because no one likes to end their days in angst.
Secret, (aka Secret Love) by the way, is an AMAZING drama which I think should be recapped by dramabeans, but hey that's my little ol' opinion. ;3
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same sentiments here. already this is the 9th ep, and i seriously dunno what the show is trying to even tell me. other than the rich and famous have got nothing better to do than boss people around.
so..i get it that young-do and kim tan likes eun-sang...and then? so wat?
it's a situation where you have so many good ingredients all dumped in (read: the stellar cast), but you juz ruin the whole pot of soup.
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Slow and I have no idea what this show's about beyond the usual chaebal/candy basics.
This episode feel like it should have happened weeks ago like the week after they started school. YD and KT come to blows, creating new reasons for the continued rivalry. ES takes a day out to get her head together and goes back to school with a no BS attitude but it's quickly challenged by the growing doubt in her new money status.
Mdm Han pretending to be ES mother has so much potential but I doubt KES is going to capitalise on it.
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Couldn't agree more, i was so excited to watch Heirs before the drama started, only to end up with disappointment after every episode, and yes, totally agree with you that Secret should be recapped here as well, but I believe dramabeans must have their own reason on not to do so.
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I skipped watched 1st episode for like 10 mins and never looked back to this show ever again. I think I was right in thinking even before the show started that this drama is going to suck given the writer's history. At least Secret Garden had Ha JI Won and Hyun Bin to save it from complete wreck. This train wreck can't be saved by LMH and PSH.
Plus, just from glancing at the recap and everyone's opinion it feels like Boys over part flower II with 2nd lead who acts like an Ass that no women would even chose even with Kim Woo Bin's face.
Not surprised at all considering the writer's limp and cliche/stereotype-filled writing in "Secret Garden."
This writer doesn't know how to write a good plot, much less good/fun dialogue.
And to think this writer won awards for SG (shows how popularity and star power of its leads goes a long, long way).
I give up. After 8 hours of my life (and more from reading recaps), I'm dropping this. If you continue recapping, GF and JB, I'll continue reading them...cause it's obvious I'm even more of your fan than I am of any of these beautiful actors and actresses.
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My sentiments exactly! Especially about Secret. I would have really appreciated if DB had recapped that show. But with two episodes left, I'll just participate in the Open Chat forum where Secret is discussed thoroughly.
I'm thinking of taking a break from watching Heirs until it's complete. Just isn't the same anticipation as, say, Reply/Answer Me 1994. Now THAT is my crack show of the moment.
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I'm sorry, but how can you like Secret? This drama is SO SO horrible and sexist! I like melodramas and I started to watch this one looking for the angst and the romance, even if I hated all the characters. But now its impossible for me to watch.
Both the male leads are abusive. They embarrass the female protagonist, humiliate her, abuse her. I can't even. Is this the kind of man I'm supposed to admire?
And she suffers SO.MUCH. She gets dragged around by her wrist all the drama. She's so passive and submissive. I was horrified by their rape kiss, this scene was supposed to be romantic?
I watched some episodes on viki and I felt like an alien. Lots of people saying how romantic the playboy hero was and I "WTF he's an abusive piece of shit". I'm sorry javabeans, this is off topic, but this drama is bugging me so much I had to say something.
I totally agree. I feel like Kim Woo Bin is the only one with the interesting story and acting although the writing for the drama sucks. Like where are they going with this? I feel like they are trying to bring the Gossip Girl scenarios in a kdrama world, but its not working out so well
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Secret? Wait, are we watching the same show?
Because if they recapped that drama, they'd be constantly stabbing themselves in the eye with a spork. Remember all the wrist-grabbing, near-strangling, and abuse the main girl constantly endures?!?! And how all the males in that show are chauvinistic, violent, sociopaths?! And don't even get me started on character growth . . . there is none! Heirs may be awful, but come on now, so is Secret. I'm only still watching out of morbid curiosity - how much abuse can one girl take before she finally snaps and yells, "I wasn't driving the goddamn car!"
(I'm guessing she'll die first.)
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Especially Kang Ha Neul! The poor boy doesn't seem to even have friends (is he the only senior in the school???) and his loveline isn't even really a loveline.
Sadness!! I loved him in Monstar!
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Kang Ha Neul so far seems like a mere observer. He did have a pretty hot moment with Hyun Joo when he leaned over within kissing range to tell her she smelled like ramen. WOOF! There was some simmer in his HOTness.....
So far, Kim Won comes across as a petulant, possessive man-child. Sulking when things/people get in his way, glowering when he thinks another man might be encroaching on his "territory". A puppet to Daddy's purse strings with rebellions that are ineffectual.
I think Woo Bin is acting the hell out of this role and my love of him is distracting me from how awful the character of Young Do is (as written). Even with the misogynistic, abusive, psychotic character he manages to spark a chemistry with Eun Sang. So far Lee Min Ho as Kim Tan has NOT been able to surpass 2nd lead in my opinion.
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Won is so annoying. His script for the whole 9 episodes can't be more than 1 page long. He has the same lines over and over.
While I agree that WB is acting the hell out of this role I think LMH could have done just as well playing YD. Furthermore, Woo-Bin can stare just as well as LMH and he could probably had played Tan in the same fashion as LMH. My problem is not with the acting but with the writing of these characters. The character of Kim Tan is so bland and it is nothing against LMH's acting, except maybe that both of the main male leads look too old to be in high school, LMH even more than WB.
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yeah, my biggest problem with this show is the writing. i haaaate the writing. all the characters are written terribly. half the characters don't matter as much as they could, the other half isn't as sympathetic as they could be, and i don't think that most of the "romantic" moments are actually romantic. but i like the actors, and i like the directing... i don't have problems with the world, i just wish someone else were writing these characters.
I totally agree with your statement. Choi Jin Hyuk, Kang Ha Neul, etc... they are all being underused. All the great acting potential being lost is disappointing and frustrating.
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i think the slow pace is one of the reason why some of the supporting cast were underused especially Choi Jin Hyuk, Im Joo Eun and Kang Ha Neul
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heirs got a whole lot more interesting (for me) when the fighting started.
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I only skimmed most of the last 3 episodes (like 5-10 min each), but I thought the fight was kind of stupid. Yah, I know they are both playing Mr Macho Man, but there is no background on anyone, so there is no context for the fight. Aside from one being a psycho and one being an ex-psycho, I just don't see any motivation or reason for most of what these characters are doing.
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Me too. Although the fight was kinda pointless, I mean they fought but what was gained from that fight besides cuts and bruises? What was Tan trying to achieve? He didn't really get anywhere with YD. Nothing changed... threat of 'you're a mistress' bastard' still in the air and ES still not safe from YD's antics.
If KT was going to make a point about 'No bullying Eun-Sang' it would have been better served if the fight happened right after the tripping not after walking away, kissing, phonecall (btw hw long does it take to get down the stairs from the roof? ES was down in no time at all but KT was still up there despite YD's 'threatening' phonecall about seeing ES. If he's this really Big Bad Bully then isn't KT worried enough to rush down said stairs to get to ES?)
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I hope it gets interesting. I swear if I hear "love is my pain" one more time... Show, YOU are a pain.
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x 100000000000000000000000000 on that song! I cant take it anymore.
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I feel like the director is using the OST as a substitute for the non-existent/very slow plot movement.
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For me a good OST is one I don't notice that much. It's one that enhances a scene, not something that makes me go "OH god this song again."
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Yeah they realllly need to do something about the OST >><< and that metal music that plays whenever Tan and YD meet?? Could it GET any worse?? Hahahaha.
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yes the songs SUCKS!!
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Yes! This song is SO overused and it feels like its purpose is to force us to feel something for the characters.
Honesty, it is grating on my nerves and fast approaching "Almost Paradise" levels...(You know, the insanely overused song from BOF)
There, I said it and now I feel better. lol
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OMG I LOLed so hard at your comment!
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i agree a thousand percent. i actually like the OST songs, but i still wish they'd tone it down and use them much less frequently...
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(1) eun sang saw kim tan and kim won talking in the orchard in america. kim tan said that he is his brother. eun sang met kim won in the family house in korea and was told that he is the first son. eun sang is supposedly smart... so WHY did eun sang did not figure out that kim tan is the second son again?
(2) bo na and eun sang were talking in the bathroom, ye seul walked in and announced that kim tan and young do were fighting each other in the hallway. info does not register. rachel walks in, grabs eun sang's hair then announces the same thing - kim tan and young do were fighting each other in the hallway. bo na and eun sang suddenly reacts. it is the same info, WHY not react when one person say it but then react when another person say it? is there really a purpose for rachel grabbing eun sang's hair then? because it seems there is not any need for that.
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You just did something unforgetable for Heirs. Trying to find any logic in heirs = punishment
BTW very good point :-))
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I'll try not to be rude here, but:
1.) Won's back-ish side was facing Eun-sang. She did not see him clearly at all at that distance. Hence, she couldn't have figured out that that person was Won.
2.) The girl who came first never finished her sentence- Rachel grabbed Eun-sang's hair first. Bo-na even said "Tan and Young-do what?" in the background.
Honestly, I'd kinda appreciate it if you watched the drama so that stuff like there's no logic wouldn't arise. Because, it made me- a person enjoying Heirs- kinda upset.
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1 first of all, kim tan and kim won were walking straight to eun sang before they stopped around 2 meters away from her to talk. eun sang was facing both of them directly - close enough to see both of their faces, and had enough time to do so... the conversation took long enough.
2 second of all, ye seul said enough about kim tan and young do fighting in the hallway. and question still stands, if the purpose of both ye seul and rachel is just to inform bo na and eun sang about the fight - then what is the purpose of rachel grabbing eun sang's hair? is that action really necessary?
good of you to say that if one is watching heirs then "stuff like there's no logic wouldn't arise" though... does that mean anyone criticizing heirs - writing, story/plot, phasing, actors/actresses, characters, use of music, etc - are what? watching an entirely different drama?! *rolls eyes*
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1.) I just watched that scene again wondering if I'd made a mistake but nope, it was Won's back-ish side facing Eun-sang, she never saw his face. (When they were walking his face was covered by the leaves too.) I thought of the same thing too the other day; that's why I went back to check.
2.) Rachel was upset because she thought Tan and Young-do fought over Eun-sang and took it out on Eun-sang by pulling her hair. She's been like that the whole show- being very annoying.
Also, no I didn't mean that. I meant that these two things did have logic so they didn't need to be said as illogical. Heck, I didn't like last weeks stupid kiss at the end. It's fine to criticize, but not say that a plot point is illogical when it's not. That's what I meant. I've been seeing a lot of criticism for this drama, some I agree with others not. That's all. Sorry if this came off as very rude to you. ^^
It's K-drama, is there any need to explain more?
at episode 3, around 48 minutes in, kim won and kim tan are walking towards eun sang. later at the bar/hotel, kim tan told eun sang that that guy was his brother. just, fyi
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Maybe I am missing something here but I do not get your point.
I'm assuming you mean the 2nd son of Jeguk (Empire) Group? So, what if Eun San Saw kim and Tan talking (in the orchard) she did not know that the brother was the first son of Jeguk (Empire) Group so how would she know he is the 2nd?
that scene just says to me that Tan has an older brother and things are not good between them...
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korean and english sentence structure are different, so maybe it was translated differently... but all ye-seul managed to get out was "kim tan and choi young-do in the hallway just" she didn't get to the part about them fighting, because she was cut-off. and since she didn't finish her sentence, bo-na even asks "kim tan and choi young-do what?" because she kind of just left them hanging. so mostly their non-reaction to ye-seul is a result of the non-information she gave them.
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Very slow, and way too much staring, and lingering on stares, and filming stares from ten different angles, and quite possibly:
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We need an open thread dedicated to why kdrama kisses are 50/50. Why do you either get two planks touching or an actual kiss. I get that some moments dictate less passion than others, but throw us a bone!!! Please!!!
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this drama is a disappointment...the writing is disappointing...she has the HOT lee min ho and the charismatic kim woo bin and the gorgeous choi jin hyuk in her drama and THIS IS ALL SHE COULD COME UP WITH?!?
sad, sigh, tears TT
i will still watch it for the above actors and hope that it gets better, but what a waste of their time and ours...all of the actors in this drama deserve a better drama
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yep. at first this story runs smooth without some kind of repetition of same scenes like other dramas. turns out this story like the others.
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Even though this show is so slow, I am really getting addicted to it!! Especially to Young-do....i love bad boys!
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I really loved this ep., and I will start by asking my questions:
1—It was interesting to me the looks YD had when ES pushed his hand in the hallway, and when he was at Mango Six. I was a little surprised to see YD look hurt and upset (but I was not surprised to see him look shocked). Is that how you guys would interpret the look in his eyes, hurt and upset? (both times). It was obvious that something had shifted in YD, KWB did a wonderful job of showing that with his eyes. YD looked as if he was disturbed and bothered about something, which I am assuming was ES's reaction (she didn't recoil at his touch and at his presence, this time around). However, it did feel like there was more to it, like YD felt lost, like he didn't know how to feel and think (I could see it when he was talking to MS, because he still looked that way and behaved as such).
2—Did I hear it right, I am not sure who said it, "when KT left for the States, YD did not come to school?" meaning he missed him that much?
3—What does this expression mean, "KT has come and left your heart?" Does that mean that KT left an impression on ES's heart? Or he was in her heart and now he is not any more? (I think this was said by CH to ES, in the library).
4—This is just my own curiosity, do any of the beanies know anything about the house they film in (the Tan's house)? It's really nice. I was just wondering if it is actually someone's house, or a set they built or created for the drama.
5—Why did KT told ES, "you are going to die from my hands today?" He does like her, so why did he say that?
6—The expression that little Madam (Madam Han) used, talking about the other parents, "should I go in and 'clean' those people up?" What does that mean?
7—Some of the questions I have are really linguistic questions, because I am trying to understand what they would mean. So when Bo Na said (and I am basing all that I am writing on the subtitles I read, of course), that if KT and YD are locked up together, only one would come out alive, (and I am assuming the other one) would have been "chewed all up," does she mean that one person would have eaten the other one, or that one person would have just killed the other one? I understand that the translations are from Korean, and that Koreans would probably not wonder about the implications or meaning (because they would know what is being is implied).
8—When YD and KT went outside, KT apologized to YD, saying, "I am sorry (and then there was a line, as if KT said a bad word that could not been shown/written)." Am I correct in assuming that?
9—Why does HJ have to accept Daddy Chairman's offer?
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@Ivoire - re#1, I think we *are* meant to see YD's feelings as having shifted - that he genuinely likes Eun Sang, and is "hurt" by her rejection. The problem for me is that since he's just as much of an abusive ass as ever, I could care less about his feelings.
Re #4 -I remember reading this is an actual house in Korea. Wouldn't you like to live there :)! Two houses, actually - I think they use one house for the external shots and another one for the internal scenes.
#9 - If I recall correctly, HJ was a charity project of sorts of the Chairman -he sponsored her through school. So I guess she feels obligated to him, especially given that he's rich and powerful enough to mess with her future if she doesn't.
I, too, enjoyed this episode. I acknowledge not all that much is actually happening, but somehow the characters are compelling enough to keep me watching.
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Hello Faye,
Thank you for your responses, I will be back later to comment. My thoughts on this ep. are here, if you are interested in reading them :-). They are on page 2.
71 Ivoire November 6th, 2013 at 9:45 PM
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Hi Ivoire - just found them and commented!
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@ Faye, yes, thanks for that. I will be back later to comment back. I am working today :-(
No you didn't hear it right. He said that YD didn't come to the airport to see Tan off when he got exiled to America. Thus proving what a colossal ass he is since Tan was his boy, his BFF back then.
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2 - he says that young-do didn't go see him off at the airport, not that he didn't go to schoo
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also 7:
so the word she used here was "뜯어 먹다." (ddeudeo meokda). it's a compound word.. the first part is a verb with a lot of meanings, among which are bite, take something apart, and rip something open/out/off (like an envelope, or a page from a book, or the wrapping off a gift). the second part means "to eat." maybe that will help you grasp the meaning of her statement:) she's essentially saying that with the way they are currently, if you locked them in a room together, it'd probably be violent and only one would come out alive.
8 - maybe the subbers couldn't understand what he said, so they left a line? i've seen that sometimes from subbers who try to get it out really quickly, sometimes that just don't get everything. he didn't say anything bad. the line is "미안하다, 얕봐서," (mianhada, yatbwaseo) which means "i'm sorry for underestimating you/looking down on you." and then he goes on to say that he didn't know that Young-do was this much of a jerk. this isn't cable, so if he had said anything bad, SBS wouldn't broadcast it. it would have been edited.
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Hello adette,
I was looking for you, wondering when you would come to my rescue for my language lesson :-). Thank you! You add so much to my understanding of this drama, and to my understanding of the Korean language and culture. I always love reading your explanations and suggestions. I will be back later to respond, as I have to go attend to real life.
Also, my thoughts about this ep. are on page 2, # 71 if you are interested in them. Warning, it is an essay :-) (as if you wouldn't know that by now :-) )
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#1 to me the look was the realization was of how much she hates him because of his bullying and how she will no longer tolerate his presence. It was a "oh shit what have I done" look. I don't think he'd realized till then how much he liked her and how much he'd pushed her away. So he looked hurt because he does seek her out and like being around her but he has been expressing it in the worst way possible. Myugsoo doesn't have much use in the plot but at least he talked some sense to Youngdo about not bullying girls and just admitting when you like someone.
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Hello modest-goddess,
Thank you for your response, and I will be back later to comment, if you don't mind checking back much later (like tomorrow :-) ) if you are interested in more of my thoughts.
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For a second I thought I might be the only person who liked this drama. I am not sure why, but I like that we don't know who to root for. I like that all the lines are blurred. It feels more real to me. In the real world we only see action, and we are not always sure what drives people. In that sense I really like YD. I do think he is changing, it's slow, but present. He's been taught, to "win at all cost". Eun-Sang's presence makes him question that philosophy. Every time he pushes her in order to "win", he ends up losing. I like that Tan is trying to find a balance but he keeps ending up at odd ends of the spectrum. In the scene where he walks away from ES after she points out he can't protect her because he can't protect himself, I didn't really see that as running away. I saw it as a reality check he hadn't taken the time to process. I do think the angst is way dialed up though, I would like to see some more balance on that end. Sometimes the angst gets so loud you miss the cute, and the funny. Thank goodness for Lee Bo Na and Tan's "real" mom.
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Hi Ivoire,Hope you are doing fine. Your answers,here you go:
#1 Yes. YD looked hurt and upset. Bcz, he wanted to be the guy who will have someone who may give him compassion and love without worrying about his status
and his mother issues. ES is that girl but he went in his own twisted way into getting to know her-ending up himself hurt. He knew he was behaved badly after
he made her fall which,at that point, he didn't realise bcz of KT,that's why he called her back later. But when she recoiled from his touch, he understood
her hurt as well as his boundary cross.
#2 No to your question. But I believe ,Yes, YD DID miss his Best buddy. Of course. It drives one of my previous posts about YD missing KT true. Bcz, as you
can see, YD is just a guy who does what his father does to win. Immemdiately. He thinks that will make him a winner as his father but doesn't understand he
himself is suffering bcz of his Dad and he hates him. Whatever his dad has achieved, is not success - is what YD needs to learn. But KT is a guy who has
everything according to him - a father/chariman, a mom/biomom, a mother/chairwoman,son/heir of the school/jeguk group. These are the things he's missing -
the things that are clouding his eyes when he sees KT - instead of a friend/buddy. Still,his heart knows it - you can see his behavior towards KT, an extra
anger which is just a cover - he misses his BF.
#5 When people get angry, they say a lot of things. That was one of those that KT said to ES. It'ssimple as that. Implying,he cares for her and dare she
disobey him.
#6 May be, go and knock them of their high horses?
#7 They'ld fight with each other to death. Wherever the hell they are.
#8 I believe so.
#9 This is my guess: Daddy Chairman is,obviously, Chairman of Jeguk Group. That gives him the power to knock of anyone with his power/money/status. If HJ
doesn't accept his offer,he may: publish that HJ is not worthy for the Scholarship/help the org. provied/make other or any parents/schools for that matter
not to take HJ for as tutor/get even lower-release ba rumors(you know,we've LAWYERS in the drama,too!!)/etc.
Well,I am not sure they're correct.They're just my opinions and hope they helpin clearing at least some of your doubts. And coming to my opinion of this
drama, I LOVE IT..especially Young Do's. I know JB is gonna kill me but I love his Character as well. From the start,before even these two episodes, my crush
started. He's such a person to behave differently to express his feelings. Yes, sometimes and to be realistic,he may come across as pshycopath but I could
feel his turmoil from the start - I don't know why - but,that's the reason I love him.
A word of advice Javabeans/Girlfriday and others who don't get YD: Think like YD.We've got a mother who ran away,leaving the son to a father who's an asshole
- always with different mistresses - especially when infront of best buddy, who himself is,as later revealed to him, a son of a mistress - which could mean
the same way for him, to get him a rival in the form of his father's mistress's son.
And I've a question for all those who think YD is worst(me too,but 0.01% less): Do you think KW is any better? Yes,he's not violent. Yes, he's not
using bad words as YD. BUT, he's REMINDING KT that he's a mistress's son. He's treating him coldly. He's ignoring him saying his existence in itself bad for
him and hates him for that. For coming to get HIS Life. Is he ANY Better? JUST bcz he's not VIOLENT? Well, for me,he's not any better. He's using silent
words, just the way his Father does to teach others-making HJ/ES under his wings just to tell them that they don't belong here. And,YD uses HIS Father's way
of teaching others - "no rules on my mat". I don't see any difference. If any - it's their parent's.
Enjoy the Drama guys. (Sorry Ivoire, my reply is soo late and I kind of think that you wouldn't notice it. But if you read it, then nice. The real life in
between is lil harder,you know....)
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Here's another question: Who is Eun Sang texting that keeps her so distracted? KT and YD are there, it's not her mother, and she has no girlfriends, is she checking up on episodes on Dramabeans?
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I don't know how to feel about this show... and we're halfway through the series
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Oh, and slow clap for when Eun-sang decides not to take the wrist-grabbing thing from Young-do. She should do that more often.
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Agreeeee. That part is so good for me. And Young do's expression after that is the best.
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agreed. I guess she finally had enough of being yanked here and there by the two boys... about time, I say.
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And it only took 9 episodes...
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That's what I felt about Gentleman's Dignity at some parts, but the pacing was just right in the end
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I hate Youngdo. He is so unbearable that i want to drop this drama. But i love lead actors so i'm sticking with it. His reason to hate Tan is one of the worst excuses i have ever heard. He should leave KT and ES alone because clearly, they don't even want to see his face.
One has to show some affections towards other person, in order to receive some.
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Young Do beat the crap out of Joon Yong (4 Eyes) many times, and it went unnoticed. He and Tan go at each other once, and the whole calvary show up. Why?
2 high school boys of equal fighting ability going at each other doesn't bother me. But until YD comes to terms with his anger with Tan for revealing that his mother is a mistress (in order to comfort YD), he is a total jerk in my book.
Now that YD comes face to face w his feelings for CES, he is going to defend her at school, and protect her at work, isn't he? W his purported high IQ, I'm sure he can find a way to let her know that he isn't going to bully her. He'll want to take Tan down from his pedestal, by outing his birth secret? If he does that, then there is no turning around for him. CES will want to plead w him to not do it. She'll be in some serious pickle.
Kim Won is an even bigger jerk. Jeguk should be enough of a business empire for two inheritors. He wants it ALL for himself. That's greed and a very small heart and mind. Why not share w a sweet half brother who loves him for being an elder brother?
My SIL has never done a thing for her parents. She didn't even show up when my MIL died. My husband and I do all the care-giving and pay the bills. Yet when my FIL says his inheritance will go entirely to my husband, he said: I would want my sister to share in it. It is not how much money is at stake, but what your priorities are: Sibling or Money.
So until the show explains satisfactorily when KW has so much greed, he is the bigger jerk in my book, psychological damage or not.
Why does Jeguk arrange a marriage for Tan aged 17, but not Kim Won, who at 30 is at much more of a marriageable age? He needs to have an arranged marriage to louse up his life.
I think that maroon color (jacket) might be Lee Min Ho's fav. We've seen him wear that color a no. of times.
That CES always texting on her phone when she walks, never once noticing what is in front of her. I worry that she might get run over by a truck someday! That'll solve the boys' problems? Just kidding.
As for all the wrist grabbing, and 'forceful' kissing, I can't help but wonder if there is a cultural element there, in that perhaps they are viewed more favorably in Korea than outside, esp. in the U.S., esp. in CA.? Sometimes we tend to forget that we are watching KOREAN drama after all. I'm not sure how fair it is to judge them from other cultural view points.
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LOL at this:
"Why does Jeguk arrange a marriage for Tan aged 17, but not Kim Won, who at 30 is at much more of a marriageable age? He needs to have an arranged marriage to louse up his life. "
That's not only funny, it's an excellent point. Why hasn't Chairman Kim arranged a match for Won yet -the older, *legitimate,* son?
Regarding cultural differences - I believe javabeans is ethnically Korean, so certainly she has a right to call out issues in these dramas that are problematic. Beyond that, I want to address the larger issue of whether we're allowed to judge another culture that's different from ours.
From a personal standpoint, I was raised in America, but I'm not from here and neither were my parents. In addition, I'm in a religious minority. So believe me, I have experienced more than my share of annoyance when outsiders judge my culture without being part of it. However, if it comes to something that is damaging and harmful, I believe we have not only a right, but also an obligation to highlight it. It's the only way to work toward a society where we can practice our differences but all still be safe and have rights. The wrist-grabbing and some of the more sexist attitudes toward women that we sometimes see in K-dramas are things that, in my humble opinion, could be minimized without denigrating Korean culture. Just my 2c.
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I'm referring in general to All the talk all over the internet on various English KD blogs.
On to the 2nd pt: What our parents' ethnicity may be doesn't entirely determine our cultural perspective and values. It is very much determined by the cultural milieu in which we grow up, the tv we watch, the books we read, the peers we have.
I don't feel strongly about this or the male-glorifying behavior in the show one way or another to write 4000+ char treatise on it. ;) (Has someone been writing those?) My point is only a passing comment that it is a Korean drama made primarily for a Korean audience. Personally, if the wrist grabbing or forceful kissing doesn't bother them, well, as an international viewer watching online, I'll shrug it off. It's kinda like: I won't touch it w a 10 foot pole, but if they like BBQ fatty pork, who am I to condemn them for liking it?
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My point was that as someone who has grown up in a very different cultural milieu than the general surrounding culture, I know what it's like to feel that someone judging your culture from the outside shouldn't be doing so. But there's a big difference between BBQ fatty pork and yanking women around. I do believe there has to be some absolute concept of right and wrong no matter what culture you're from. However, that's just my personal opinion, obviously.
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Towards the end of ep 9, Tan wrist-grabs his mother when she is about to go into the kitchen to get that glass of water YD asked for. That's wrist-grabbing too, done completely out of love and protection. So maybe it isn't necessarily such a detestable thing every time it appears on screen.
Part of the international backlash against America in the past decade or so is that American ethnocentrism stems from a certainty that its values are right and good for the whole human race. It's too complicated and political an issue for anybody to say who is right and who isn't. Those sentiments are out there.
@KDaddict - It's interesting that you conflate opposing violence against women with being American. If that is the case, since I am an American by choice, I'll proudly accept that labeling!
It's true that anti-Americanism exists in many areas (and always has, not just in the last ten years). However, if you travel abroad extensively, as I do, and talk to actual people, not just pay selective attention to certain media sources and political pundits, you'll see that just as many appreciate America and in many cases want those "ethnocentric American values" like greater freedom for women (P.S. technically, "American ethnocentrism" isn't an accurate term, since being American, unlike being Korean, is a nationality, not an ethnicity). There's a reason why people all over the world are still fighting just to get into an immigration lottery to enter this country (I work for the federal government -I've seen the numbers!).
In any case, my original point was really NOT "American values are better than Korean ones," and wrist-grabbing itself may be a gray area. My original post was a reaction to your original point - that we can't judge a Korean show because we're not Korean. And putting aside the isolationist consequences of such a sentiment (which, admittedly, as the daughter of people who emigrated here to flee persecution, disturbs me) - let's look at this from a drama-analysis perspective. Saying we can't judge because we're not Korean sort of shuts down discussion altogether, doesn't it? You can't properly explore and learn about a culture that is different than yours if you're not allowed to critically analyze certain parts of it, too. Otherwise, you're just a passive viewer.
But we obviously have very different views on this subject, so I'll back away from this discussion now.
@KDaddict - I just have to throw this out there - plenty of people on this board and others who are not American - from Europe, Canada, different parts of Asia - have criticize the incessant wrist-grabbing and pulling and some attitude towards women in K-dramas. Are they not allowed to criticize either, or is it just Americans?
I'm not Korean, but I think you are totally wrong. You should try BBQ fatty pork -- or what I'm guessing is really grilled pork belly. I bet you will like it -- there are few things more delicious and nourishing for the soul than pork belly, either grilled or smoked.
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The BBQ pork is an allegory.
KDaddict...I feel how the guy treated the woman in the drama e.g wrist grabbing, is how the writer writes and its all the usual ppl who writes....and I have learned a few famous one who writes good story for a drama.....as for the Korean drama you watched be thankful because I have watched almost all nations dramas and kept an open mind about it..seen worse story,how man treats woman...in Asia..very few but still it happens...man thinks their are superior...mind you not all but from my the place I come from south east Asia its a norm,but in dramas totally the writers views......take it as purely entertainment....
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I am the one with a similar position as yours. Your reply should be addressed to somebody else.
@athena - I'm sure there's much worse out there, but it doesn't necessarily make this action right.
Just to play devil's advocate, let's say the wrist-grabbing is totally fine (although, please note, the KOREAN recappers on this site have spoke out against it in more than one show). My posts were about the idea that we're not allowed to criticize things we see in K-dramas because we're not Koreans. And that's just silly to me. You can respect and appreciate a culture that's different than yours while still acknowledging parts of it are problematic. Saying everything about another culture is wonderful and "just different" is actually kind of condescending.
"The wrist-grabbing and some of the more sexist attitudes toward women that we sometimes see in K-dramas are things that, in my humble opinion, could be minimized without denigrating Korean culture. Just my 2c."
Very well said Faye. :) It bothers me sometimes, mainly in very alpha macho dramas like Heirs where the Candy is a very weak character. The thing is: I never know how much of this is possible/usual in real Korea. I don't know if it's just a trope and regular korean audiences know it's exaggerated and don't mind and don't even think about it. Or if they do, maybe they don't like it either but the writers just haven't caught up with modern times yet? Modern sensibility? It's certainly ONE of my all time big kdrama curiosities.
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"Why hasn't Chairman Kim arranged a match for Won yet -the older, *legitimate,* son?"
I think it's part of the chairman's plan for keeping everyone in line. It would be harder to manipulate Kim Won if there wasn't an element of hope.
A*legitimate* son is a trump card...legit son getting married could"save" the company.
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"Young Do beat the crap out of Joon Yong (4 Eyes) many times, and it went unnoticed. He and Tan go at each other once, and the whole calvary show up. Why?"
Because the justice only care for the rich VVIPs. The school can continue to function without a kid from the welfare program: That won't make waves.
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I know. That's my point. Rhetorical Qn. Kinda disgusting isn't it? And ppl say there is No social commentary in the show.
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The thing is, the powerful vs. the powerless, the haves vs. have nots dynamic is not something new, brave or groundbreaking that this show is doing. It has been done before and in that sense then many dramas then are a social commentary of class division.
For example, in BOF the dude in the 1st episode was about to commit suicide, all stemming from bullying rooted in yje red card that he received from the richest, most powerful guys in school - F4. It became a huge deal and had the potential of hurting the school's reputation. What did the school, ran by the mother of the leader of the abusers, do? Investigate the incident? Nope. They moved to cover it up by giving a scholarship to the plebeian who prevented the suicide.
Another example, in School 2013 whenever the poor/bad guys did something there was immediate uproar and calls for action and expulsion. When it was one of the upper class kids that caused an incident their mothers and principals acted immediately to cover it up.
Heirs is not original in exploring and presenting social class differences and conflicts. Many other shows have done the same, one way or the other.
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I agree with Faye in that although I think cultural difference may play a role in the forceful kisses and wrist-grabbing, for there to be change, there has to be criticism. Korean people need to hear people saying that this is wrong and needs to be changed and the reasons for that. So I think it is ok to use a different perspective to look at sexism in Korea.
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I agree that some behavior towards women is terrible in any culture and deserves general criticism. Examples that come to mind include but are not limited to wife-beating n marital rape. I'm only Not Sure of the wrist grabbing and "forceful kissing" that have been shown in the context of this show.
Is it possible that with a girl who likes you back but deems herself unworthy of loving you, they don't quite fall in that category of behavior worthy of international condemnation?
I don't know for sure; just wondering.
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i may not be right but my 2 pennies: i don't think it is viewed favorably outside Dramaland.. think it is not this way in reality..even in our dramaland, if a guy other than the lead/cute second lead does it, it is not shown in a favorable light.. have you read any new-adult books or Twilight for that matter? i did read a couple of them and girls are treated in similar ways in those books(that is why i stopped reading such books, but then again i'm in my early thirties and many teens and twentyish old girls squeal over those books) and these books are written mostly by Americans/Brits/Aussies.. this doesn't mean that behavior like in the books is accepted by the society.. hmmm, what did i want to say again? oh yeah, i don't think it is a culture thing.. i come from India and live in Germany, so I have some perception of how things work in 2 different cultures and i think people in reality don't act like the drama characters(usually anyway)..
i hope i could answer your question, instead of confusing you even more..
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Very well said luv-Kim Rae won... It's mostly in dramaland...I detest the hand holding and forced kiss too the "T" ..I mean come on I m nearing my thirties and I know it's not so called romantic ..bit girls who are in there teens are thinking it to be romantic ..I was baffled when I was reading sm blog and people thought it is swoon worthy ..duhhhh btw I m from India too and have been living in Seoul..and I m telling you I have never seen any thing like this happening in reality ..like ever...over here
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@ luv_KimRaeWon - Plenty of American critics, from actual literary critics to individual bloggers, have savaged "Twilight" for its portrayal of women. Seriously, google it - there are thousands of links. And rightfully so.
@Sumee - I've only visited Seoul, never lived there, like you, so I'm glad to here it's not reality :). Still, popular culture does influence/reflect what's in society to certain extent so I think it's worth examination (just as there are many aspects of American popular culture that disturb me).
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i know that and I do know how some new adult book characterisations irritate readers(i am a regular on amazon :):) )..just wanted to say that characters potrayed in dramas need not necessarily reflect reality and paralleled dramas with those kind of books to make my point..
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I understand that. I think my problem is that many viewers (mostly younger ones?) are watching this show and not thinking "well, they're just drama characters." Even on this board, there are people talking about how poor Woo-Bin just needs the love of a good woman to save him. That's just disturbing. To what extent that obligates the creator of the show (or books) to modify the character or, more importantly, how other characters react to him, is a good topic for debate :).
In reply to184.108.40.206.1:completely agree with you..it worries me when i read the swooning and squealing comments to the jerk like behaviour of good looking guys.
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"Why does Jeguk arrange a marriage for Tan aged 17, but not Kim Won, who at 30 is at much more of a marriageable age? He needs to have an arranged marriage to louse up his life. "
I've wondered this myself, they haven't even mentioned arrangements which fell through or blind dates he maybe subtly sabotaged because of his feelings for HJ.
To marry off the spare who's still in high school while the heir remains a bachelor is baffling.
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That is just one of many baffling things throughout this drama.
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:-)) Good job.
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i think, even as outsiders looking in, we are allowed to comment. passing judgement may be going too far, but bringing a topic up for discussion, i think, is permissible. i mean, if i see blackface on korean variety shows (or in any other nation's media), i'm not going to let it slide because its a ~cultural difference~
i think as long as the conversation is about displays of misogyny and male dominance and the gender divide (which are universal problems and not at all specific to korea) rather than having a conversation about how korean men must all be misogynistic creeps with no respect for women, we're okay.
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Thank you for summarizing my position accurately. I don't think anybody was trying to make blanket statements about Korean men in general, but we can still point out these specific issues that are troubling to us as viewers.
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oh! i didn't mean to imply that anyone was, i just meant that i think it's okay as long as we have some boundaries.
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Thanks for the recap! I am really digging heirs. Kim Tan's mom is a hoot! I laughed so hard when she made that comment about Rachel's mom's necklace, Eyeball candy. Haha. Kim Woo Bin I LOVE YOU!!!!
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Almond Scene.
Let's all rejoice for our dear Madame Han :D
She is the TRUE star :D
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My favorite scene! lol
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Madam Han is a breath of fresh air in this drama (of characters that are going nowhere!); she's hilarious. If only Tan was half as funny, playful and fun as his mom!
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Can I just say I love the fact that Madam Han pretending to be Eun Sang's mom is awesome in that it causes an even bigger You're Beautiful reunion? Second time around for those two to be acting opposite one another, and this time PSH's character has a little more spine :)
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I don't know what to feel about Choi Young Do. Kim Woo Bin is a great, charismatic actor, and I want to see more of him on my screen. And if anyone could sell the "my abusive ways are all caused by my secretly lonely, daddy-abused self," it's him. But this portrayal of him is kind of sick. The whole "I tripped Eun-Sang to test how I felt about her" logic – what.is.that??!! You know what? Maybe you should have beat the crap out of her, Young-Do – then you *really* could have confirmed how much you liked her!
It would be one thing if "Heirs" was portraying this damaged yet compelling character, showing us how his mind works. But I get the idea we're actually supposed to buy into this kind of logic and sympathize with him, and that is just so wrong to me. Sadly, the number of girls (and women!) I've seen swooning over him on the Internet indicates I'm mostly alone in this.
There was some hilarity (probably unintentional) in the Young-Do/Eun-Sang meeting at the café. "Hey, I just almost beat up some boys again for no real reason. And I spent this afternoon stalking your past and unearthing the secret you've clearly been trying to hide. Oh, and hey, I like you! You don't like me?" Gee, I wonder why not, after that display of romance.
However, I completely buy into the Young Do-Tan relationship and angst. Once we found out that Young-Do's mother ran away, it makes sense (well, for him) that he lashed out at Tan when Tan revealed his true parentage. How it must rankle him that Tan has two mothers, while he has none. From his perspective, his own legitimate mother ran away and abandoned him – while Tan's mother loves him so much she is willing to deny her real identity to stay near him. I'd actually like the two of them to patch up their relationship (maybe bromance couples therapy?).
Did anybody else LOL like a teenage boy when Young-Do asked Tan what he had to do to bring him to his knees? I know it wasn't meant to be dirty, but given how angsty these two are about each other, it *was* kind of funny (No? Just me? Okay then.).
Although Tan is far from perfect, I feel like he made strides this episode in respect Eun-Sang. He let her go when she dropped his hand, and didn't pursue her when she cut school. The CCTV monitor thing was a bit creeper-ish, though. Baby steps :).
On the positive side, we finally got to hear Eun Sang acknowledge that she likes Tan, too. It's not just a one-sided pursuit anymore. Yay! While I think the writing for her has been very realistic relative to her position, hopefully we will see some opportunities for her to be more proactive now that she's openly admitted her feelings.
Won meeting Eun-Sang was an interesting development. His being nice to her was intriguing as well – although rather unnerving at the same time. I hope he doesn't use his knowledge of her budding relationship with Tan to drive a further wedge between Tan and their father.
Thanks for the recap!
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You are not alone. I basically feel the same.
"You know what? Maybe you should have beat the crap out of her, Young-Do – then you *really* could have confirmed how much you liked her!"
Haha. Same idea. Same effect--of turning her off him completely. She witnessed him throwing JY against the lockers and on the floor. She gets what he is like.
"Hey, I just almost beat up some boys again for no real reason. And I spent this afternoon stalking your past and unearthing the secret you've clearly been trying to hide. Oh, and hey, I like you! You don't like me?" Gee, I wonder why not, after that display of romance.
As cool as he is, it's safe to surmise he hasn't dated much. LOL.
If he had a REAL sister with whom he was close, maybe she could explain to him why those were so NOT things to gain a girl's favor.
The no. of girls swooning over YD might be due to the fact that YD is being played by KWB. He is the undisputed king for making the bad boy look irresistible. Beyond that I hope for those young girls' sake that they don't get attracted to such guys in reality. Quick way to ruin one's life.
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Re Swooning over YD played by KWB:
KWB makes that leather jacket look so hot. It should be illegal for him to wear a leather jacket, On a motorcycle. How can girls not swoon?
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I swoon, and I am so much older than KWB is (31yrs old), its a little embarrassing to admit to anyone I know IRL....
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I agree with EVERYTHziNG you had to say. I dare say I enjoyed reading your comments as much as I did reading javabeans'!
Excellent thought provoking comments. I had never thought much about Tan and Young-do's strained relationship but your reasoning makes total sense!
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Wow! Thanks for the compliment! I can't compare with the recappers on this site, but I'm glad you found my comments thought-provoking.
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I know right? YD just gives me mixed feelings. For someone who is able to manipulate people with such skill (which requires some knowledge of what makes people tick and he pushes people's buttons so well!), it just strikes me as odd that he is so out of touch with his own budding feelings towards ES. Seriously? Tripping her to get a gauge of whether your heart aches for her? I was expecting him to say that Tan brings the worst out of him, that his anger at Tan overrides his reason and logic that he just lashes out at anyone in order to hurt Tan. Well, that's my take on his tripping ES, cos I just don't buy his excuse. Please, just have some "bromance couples therapy"! (LOL, that's just so hilarious! And I always read into things whenever YD and Tan happen to be in the scene... It would be super interesting if it's a real full-fledged love triangle, but doubt that'll ever happen.
About Won and ES, I thought Won was nice to her cos he's smart enough to put things together and deduce that ES is the housemaid and sort of the charity case sponsored by Empire Group like Hyun Joo, and so can see a shadow of his relationship dynamics with Hyun Joo in ES and Tan's relationship, of a rich boy liking a poor girl who's indebted to their family... And so he's nice to ES, cos he sees HJ in her? Crossing my fingers and hoping that this would bring Tan and Won together to bring bad daddy down. Though I'm not sure why Daddy Kim is so opposed to their relationships? After all, Won's mother is also a poor country girl that Daddy Kim liked and brought back to Korea, but that didn't work out at all; I think Won said something about his mom being suffocated by the superficialities of Korean upper class society which led to his death, I wonder if it's suicide? I think I would be very surprised if Daddy Kim actually used that as an excuse to object both of his sons falling in love with poor girls who don't fit in and can't adapt to their world, other than just the usual typical excuse of poor girls bringing down the reputation and standing of chaebols in other Kdramas I've seen...
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I like your take on Won's attitude toward Eun Sang. I'd really like to see it as a catalyst for bringing some rapprochement between he and Tan.
Interesting thoughts about Won's biological mother. I can't remember all the details, but was she actually a poor country girl? I thought she was from a vintner's family in Napa Valley. So she was probably more "countrified," but not necessarily poor.
The suicide theory is an interesting one. I wish they would cut some Young-Do bullying scenes to make time to explore some of those issues :).
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What if Won's mother isn't really dead? Stranger things have happened in k_drama land.
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That for me is just WHAT THE F!? about him. I like you believe Kim Woo Bin could sell a damaged abusive childhood that has made him what we see today. In part we get that with his arse emotionally and physically violent father who has made him a product of his up bringing and taekwondo rules "lessons". However, the writer fails to see that, that simply isn't enough for how extreme Young-do is. KWB was not lying when he said YD uses his intelligence in all the wrong/bad ways.
I keep hoping we will see true vulnerability, remorse, something or someone he truly cares for and treats humanly (a sweet flashback with his mom, or Tan, or a freaking puppy, anything would help) but I am starting to doubt that will ever come. The writers keeps edging the line of no return with his character, and it is honestly the saving grace of Kim Woo Bin's talent, screen presence, and charisma, that anyone still gives two flying shits about Choi Young-do. You get it writers!? We need to get more on his mommy issues (she better have abandoned him in the most hurtful, curliest, tear jerking manner) and better reasoning for the destroyed friendship(?) with Tan.
Young-do has such an abuser/abusive cycle mentality that it is honestly scary. They hurt you and think an apology or some roses and kisses makes it all better. They have the audacity to look offend or hurt when you let them know they can f off with that bull (the hallway scene). There are many things in the world an "I'm sorry" (no matter how sincere) or look I have reformed" simply cannot fix. You can't scratch me, put a band-aid on, and then be all 'why can't we be friends? I gave you a band-aid'. This is Young-do's mentality and the sad thing is I don't think (right now anyways) he nor the writers see why that is wrong and needs to change it ASAP!
Let's not even get started on the fans that can't separate actor Kim Woo Bin from character Choi Young-do. One and the other are not the same. It's okay to find Young-do fascinating and think KWB is doing an awesome job playing him. But, still be able to see that Choi Young-do with each episode teeters closer and closer to an irredeemable psycho. Something that the much too little moments of honest look of realization of his assness, cannot fix.
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"Young-do has such an abuser/abusive cycle mentality that it is honestly scary."
This, so much. This is not hyperbole. I used to volunteer at a local women's domestic abuse shelter, and he is such a classic abuser. The idea that his actions are the result of something else, usually a childhood sob story . . .the concept that it's the obligation of the woman he fixates on to "fix" him . . .the violence as a manifestation of an alleged love. You nailed it.
I want to copy your whole second paragraph and mail it to KES and her staff :).
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glorifying bullying with sob stories (family problems, broken friendship, etc) also happened in school 2013 drama - bullies without remorse, but just given a backstory.
the bullies in school 2013 are repulsive and yes, young do is even worse than that. but the international audience seem to think one is acceptable, while another is not simply because of the level of intensity... when at the end of the day, they are basically the same mold. it is just weird...
bullies having sob story does not excuse them from victimizing others, more so if they did not even show any glimpse of remorse for their past actions at all.
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I think you're confusing back story used as an explanation and back story used to justify.
I thought School 2013 was very clear that the bullying was 100% wrong. The back stories given to the bullies were simply there to contextualize their motivations.
The difference between Heirs and School was that the bullies were given redemption arcs. They bullied, they got punished, their vulnerabilities were exposed, they went too far, they realized they were wrong, and then they tried to change for the better.
Even more, in School they began to seek forgiveness from the person they bullied the most. And that boy was allowed to forget and move on but not fully absolve the bullies of guilt.
In Heirs, Young Do is given long moments of staring, a sick crush-obsession on Eun Sang, and a back story of a runaway mother and abusive dad...but he never changes.
He continues to maliciously hurt people, he is not checked/punished by any authority, he feels no regret over his actions, and his reign of terror goes on. But magically we are supposed to forgive him cuz of Kim Woo Bin's deep eyes???? He has literally learned nothing in 9 episodes so the writer has given us zero reason to care about him.
That is why I can enjoy the bully story line in School more than I can even palate the one here in Heirs.
I never saw School 2013, so I can't comment on that.
"However, the writer fails to see that, that simply isn't enough for how extreme Young-do is. KWB was not lying when he said YD uses his intelligence in all the wrong/bad ways."
Agree but maybe the writer has written him as a psycho period? Maybe I'm being too nice to the writer? On one hand I get the feeling KES expects us to "understand" him and that makes me sick on the other I feel she may be smarter, at least about him, and just wrote the character as a psycho, abusive bully. NO redeeming past explanations and that's good because I always hate these things anyway, unless it's done properly, which doesn't happen in shows like Heirs.
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You are not alone, Faye. I swoon over Woo-Bin but Young Do is the biggest asshole there is. I give WB credit for playing this nasty character with such intensity.
I truly wish Young Do wasn't the second lead because that means the writer is likely going to try to reform him because he falls in love and the girl is going to heal his emotional scars and blah, we will see that he was just a little scared puppy all along trying to hide behind the meanness mask.
This type of guys in reality do not reform (I know that is generalizing and generalizing is wrong but I fully believe it to be mostly true). They may seem to change for a while because they want to conquer a girl but this is the type of guy that ends up being abusive in a relationship after the high and newness of love wears off. And with YD's ability to switch personalities in a heartbeat, it is the type of guy that will get girls to forgive them over and over. Ugh.
This may not always be the case but abusers in relationships do not turn into abusers overnight. They have a long story of being assholes. Just like YD.
In general, I think most of us are smart/old/experienced enough to understand that this is a drama and far from reality but I cringe thinking about the possibility of young girls -even one- watching this and thinking that the power of love can solve it all and that violent guys can be changed if and when they find the right person. Some may, but most don't.
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*why yes...have you SEEN Won?*
Best line of the week.
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^ This is SO true. This is a good-looking cast, but my oh my is Choi Jin Hyuk ridiculously good-looking.
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Agreed. And an awesome actor to boot!
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Man, Choi Jin Hyuk is kind of a waste in this show so far... All he does is say the same line over and over again, and have the same conversations with everyone over and over again.. For example, to Tan: "Just because you say it isn't your intention to get in my way doesn't mean you're not getting in my way. You're illegitimate. You're existence is the stain that I can never get rid of blah blah blah.
Not that I take acting lightly, but I feel like this will probably be the EASIEST acting job he's probably ever had -_-;;
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Agreed. In the future, he can tell his children 'Son, that was a good drama garnering fans all over the world, but it was the easiest job ever'
CHOI JIN HYUK , you lucky hottie :D
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He should be a lead in a primetime drama already.
But I must say that he and Lee Min-ho look like a real brother standing next to each other.
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Absolutely. I need more Won and Hyun Joo romancing on my screen. They could have the hottest chemistry in the show if only they were given something to work with. :(
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Thank you, Javabeans for the recaps.
Been refreshing since God-knows-when.
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An hour where nothing happens. I can't believe episode 9 already needs to kill time with blink-less stares and slow-motion walking. Best part of this episode is when Tan's mom pronounced her "daughter's" name wrong. I am disappointed Young Do came to the wrong conclusion of why Eun Sang was at Tan's house. I'm going to chalk it up to this being an odd-numbered episode, which are routinely more boring compared to even-numbered episodes, but I hope the upcoming leadership camp is interesting. Thanks for the recap, javabeans!
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Best part of the episode was defenitely Madam Han^^ I so knew that she would impersonate ES's mom and I loved it :D I also hope that this will go on for some time because it's really fun to watch whereas the rest of the show... Not so much fun :P
Tan was really confusing this time and I'd love to feel some sympathy towards YD but I just can't.
It's funny though that I like the show quite much despite the flaws but then I guess I have been sucked into the big hole of pretty boys that won't let me go xD
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Madam Han fan here too!!!!
Let's wait for her new shenanigan :D
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urgh. i love kim woobin but THIS SHOW. my patience is being severely tested.
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Funny I too was thinking I am enjoying watching the acting but the story isn't changing and I feel no compulsion to catch the next episode ASAP, darn!
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YD tripping CES to find out how he'd feel! Well, it achieves that PLUS one more thing: If there was ever any hope that he could compete w Tan for her affection, that chance is now GONE! How do you feel about that?
Do I feel sorry for him? No, at least not yet.
For one thing, he should apologize to CES for tripping her.
For another, he should go find Joon Yong and seriously apologize to him, and make it up to him somehow, if that is possible. I'm afraid the amt of bullying JY has suffered at YD's hands will leave a permanent damage on his view of the world and on his psyche.
Most of all, YD owes Tan an apology for turning Tan's confession against him. To me that's betray at the deepest level.
YD is a tragic figure in this story. The more he threatens, fights, torments Tan or anyone else, the deeper he is digging his own grave. I hope out of his feelings for CES will come a day when he learns the meaning of love, of giving and acceptance. Then we won't need to feel sorry for him, but say, Bravo, YD for growing up to be a proper person.
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I feel like some were complaining that KT was harassing ES by continually following her and not giving up on her (which I found to be romantic -- the not giving up part since it's been obvious for a while that she likes him too).
Now that she once again told him to back off, and he has, we're complaining that he's giving up too easily?
It actually makes sense to me. Because that mom issue is a very sensitive topic for him. But also because ES's comment hurt his pride as a man. She's pretty much telling him he can't protect her cause he can barely protect himself. That would hurt the pride of any dude.
It's interesting how we all have different interpretations of the same scenes. I like that KT has backed off, I think it's time ES came to him instead of always the other way around.
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Same here.
I thought it was endearing how earnest he was in not giving up. Where was the "harrassment" in that? ES liked him too. And I'm sure she was fine with him being around. It's just the fact that she was so worried about other things that made her want to push him away. But he was always there for her. As much as he could be.
But now that he's backing off and giving some space, he's the bad guy now? So what exactly do you want him to do? lol
that said, I hated the kiss. I didn't take it as him using the kiss to assert his dominance. I just thought the whole thing was just not done well. The screen shot was horrendous. And ES looked like she wanted to throw up. Like. Not romantic at all.
What kind of stupid kiss was that... just everything was OFF about it. Sigh.
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It was the notorious kissing style of Park Shin-Hye as the female lead in a drama.
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I always wonder when the kisses are so awful if they are just following the directors instructions. Prolonged agony watching them. He even swallowed while he was holding the pose. Bad!
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"He even swallowed while he was holding the pose. Bad!"
AHAHHAHAHAHA ! You, Trixie, have made my day.
I read that they spent 3 hours filming kissing scene.
Totally agree with you. I loved that he didn't give up so easily earlier, and found it adorably romantic.
And now that he's backed off when she asks (like she actually means it) I find it even more romantic. And I love that scene when he walks off and it cuts to CSE's face like she didn't think he'd actually go but finally realises how much she didn't want him to leave.
And my heart broke in the slow-mo hallway scene. I know most people weren't really fans of this part but I loved it.
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Best episode so far. The comedy was more present in this episode and the fight was awesome. The strange love triangle is on and I can't wait for what's going to happen.
It's OK if some people don't understang YD cause I totally get him. I must be wired to understand those kind of people (and writer-nim by extension): Rachel is in the same basket as YD by the way.


text:
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subset: commoncrawl


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Round doily Daffodils - Filet Crochet Patterns
Supplies: 1 20 g. of white cord no. 30; steel hook no. 20 (n-1, 25).
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Sample: 1 row. br. = 0.6 cm.
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Reasons B: Around 12 units A, 1 round to m. tight, then 1 round by repeating 1 br and 2 ch drawing along with four angles br, 2 ch, 4 br. 2nd to 4th row: Make chq. Pattern B rows separately. return and finish with 1 st round. tight.
Central motif: Close round one chain. 8 ch. 1st round: 12 times: 1 br., 1 ch (1st br.'s tower is replaced by 3 ch). 2nd round: 12 times, 1 pt. blown 2 br., 2 ch, 1 st. squeezed into a pattern for connecting the central motif, 2 ch.


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Elena combines artistic talents with medical skills to enhance everyones own natural beauty.
Why is FNP. Elena Ginsberg Different?
FNP. Elena Ginsberg is one of the few practitioners devoting her entire practice to the field of aesthetics. It is not a service just "added on" to a practice already busy with other types of medical demands. She continuously advances post-master courses in medical aesthetics. After years of training and working closely with the leading plastic surgeons and injectors in Europe and in the USA, she now provides training to a new generation of Aesthetic doctors and nurses. All of these have been an important part of her work …. not so with other practices offering cosmetic injectables.
She has completed Advanced Training in Aesthetic Medicine from The Esthetic Skin Institute and holds National Certification in Advance Botox, Dysport, Dermal Fillers / Soft tissue Augmentation.
Elena Ginsberg , FNP successfully completed Cosmetic Laser from Empire Medical and received her certification and training in YAG Laser, IPL/PhotoFacial, Fractional CO2 Laser.