text:
The Washington Post on Thursday night promoted the claims of a new, shadowy organization that smears dozens of U.S. news sites that are critical of U.S. foreign policy as being "routine peddlers of Russian propaganda." The article by reporter Craig Timberg — headlined "Russian propaganda effort helped spread 'fake news' during election, experts say" — cites a report by an anonymous website calling itself PropOrNot, which claims that millions of Americans have been deceived this year in a massive Russian "misinformation campaign."
The group's list of Russian disinformation outlets includes WikiLeaks and the Drudge Report, as well as Clinton-critical left-wing websites such as Truthout, Black Agenda Report, Truthdig, and Naked Capitalism, as well as libertarian venues such as Antiwar.com and the Ron Paul Institute.
This Post report was one of the most widely circulated political news articles on social media over the last 48 hours, with dozens, perhaps hundreds, of U.S. journalists and pundits with large platforms hailing it as an earth-shattering exposé. It was the most-read piece on the entire Post website on Friday after it was published.
Yet the article is rife with obviously reckless and unproven allegations, and fundamentally shaped by shoddy, slothful journalistic tactics. It was not surprising to learn that, as BuzzFeed's Sheera Frenkel noted, "a lot of reporters passed on this story." Its huge flaws are self-evident. But the Post gleefully ran with it and then promoted it aggressively, led by its Executive Editor Marty Baron:
Russian propaganda effort helped spread fake news during election, say independent researchers https://t.co/3ETVXWw16Q— Marty Baron (@PostBaron) November 25, 2016
In casting the group behind this website as "experts," the Post described PropOrNot simply as "a nonpartisan collection of researchers with foreign policy, military and technology backgrounds." Not one individual at the organization is named. The executive director is quoted, but only on the condition of anonymity, which the Post said it was providing the group "to avoid being targeted by Russia's legions of skilled hackers."
In other words, the individuals behind this newly created group are publicly branding journalists and news outlets as tools of Russian propaganda — even calling on the FBI to investigate them for espionage — while cowardly hiding their own identities. The group promoted by the Post thus embodies the toxic essence of Joseph McCarthy, but without the courage to attach individual names to the blacklist. Echoing the Wisconsin senator, the group refers to its lengthy collection of sites spouting Russian propaganda as "The List."
The credentials of this supposed group of experts are impossible to verify, as none is provided either by the Post or by the group itself. The Intercept contacted PropOrNot and asked numerous questions about its team, but received only this reply: "We're getting a lot of requests for comment and can get back to you today =) [smiley face emoticon]." The group added: "We're over 30 people, organized into teams, and we cannot confirm or deny anyone's involvement."
Thus far, they have provided no additional information beyond that. As Fortune's Matthew Ingram wrote in criticizing the Post article, PropOrNot's Twitter account "has only existed since August of this year. And an article announcing the launch of the group on its website is dated last month." WHOIS information for the domain name is not available, as the website uses private registration.
More troubling still, PropOrNot listed numerous organizations on its website as "allied" with it, yet many of these claimed "allies" told The Intercept, and complained on social media, they have nothing to do with the group and had never even heard of it before the Post published its story.
Just want to note I hadn't heard of Propornot before the WP piece and never gave permission to them to call Bellingcat "allies" https://t.co/jQKnWzjrBR— Eliot Higgins (@EliotHiggins) November 25, 2016
.@ggreenwald No-one I've spoken to listed as "allies" on their site had even heard of them before the WP piece.— Eliot Higgins (@EliotHiggins) November 25, 2016
I can confirm. I've no idea what this website is nor who runs it. Not sure how that makes us "allies." Looks like just a blogroll https://t.co/BfKo5j4Lvo— James Miller (@Millermena) November 25, 2016
At some point last night, after multiple groups listed as "allies" objected, the group quietly changed the title of its "allied" list to "Related Projects." When The Intercept asked PropOrNot about this clear inconsistency via email, the group responded concisely: "We have no institutional affiliations with any organization."
In his article, the Post's Timberg did not include a link to PropOrNot's website. If readers had the opportunity to visit the site, it would have become instantly apparent that this group of ostensible experts far more resembles amateur peddlers of primitive, shallow propagandistic clichés than serious, substantive analysis and expertise; that it has a blatant, demonstrable bias in promoting NATO's narrative about the world; and that it is engaging in extremely dubious McCarthyite tactics about a wide range of critics and dissenters.
To see how frivolous and even childish this group of anonymous cowards is — which the Post venerated into serious experts in order to peddle their story — just sample a couple of the recent tweets from this group:
Awww, wook at all the angwy Putinists, trying to change the subject - they're so vewwy angwy!! It's cute ???? We don't censor; just highlight.— PropOrNot ID Service (@propornot) November 26, 2016
Fascists. Straight up muthafuckin' fascists. That's what we're up against. Unwittingly or not, they work for Russia. https://t.co/LBp2y19PTv— PropOrNot ID Service (@propornot) November 22, 2016
As for their refusal to identify themselves even as they smear hundreds of American journalists as loyal to the Kremlin or "useful idiots" for it, this is their mature response:
We'll consider revealing our names when Russia reveals the names of those running its propaganda operations in the West ????— PropOrNot ID Service (@propornot) November 25, 2016
The Washington Post should be very proud: It staked a major part of its news story on the unverified, untestable assertions of this laughable organization.
One of the core functions of PropOrNot appears to be its compilation of a lengthy blacklist of news and political websites that it smears as peddlers of "Russian propaganda." Included on this blacklist of supposed propaganda outlets are prominent independent left-wing news sites such as Truthout, Naked Capitalism, Black Agenda Report, Consortium News, and Truthdig.
Also included are popular libertarian hubs such as Zero Hedge, Antiwar.com, and the Ron Paul Institute, along with the hugely influential right-wing website the Drudge Report and the publishing site WikiLeaks. Far-right, virulently anti-Muslim blogs such as Bare Naked Islam are likewise dubbed Kremlin mouthpieces. Basically, everyone who isn't comfortably within the centrist Hillary Clinton/Jeb Bush spectrum is guilty. On its Twitter account, the group announced a new "plugin" that automatically alerts the user that a visited website has been designated by the group to be a Russian propaganda outlet.
We just published a BETA (very beta) version of our Chrome plugin, which highlights domains we've IDed: https://t.co/FaGTOTJO2C— PropOrNot ID Service (@propornot) November 25, 2016
To hype its story, the Post article uncritically highlights PropOrNot's flamboyant claim that stories planted or promoted by Russia's "disinformation campaign" were viewed more than 213 million times. Yet no methodology is provided for any of this: how a website is determined to merit blacklist designation or how this reach was calculated. As Ingram wrote: "How is that audience measured? We don't know. Stories promoted by this network were shared 213 million times, it says. How do we know this? That's unclear."
Presumably, this massive number was created by including on its lists highly popular sites such as WikiLeaks, as well the Drudge Report, the third-most popular political news website on the internet. Yet this frightening, Cold War-esque "213 million" number for Russian "planted" news story views was uncritically echoed by numerous high-profile media figures, such as New York Times deputy Washington editor Jonathan Weisman and professor Jared Yates Sexton — although the number is misleading at best.
Some of the websites on PropOrNot's blacklist do indeed publish Russian propaganda — namely Sputnik News and Russia Today, which are funded by the Russian government. But many of the aforementioned blacklisted sites are independent, completely legitimate news sources that often receive funding through donations or foundations and have been reporting and analyzing news for many years.
One of the most egregious examples is the group's inclusion of Naked Capitalism, the widely respected left-wing site run by Wall Street critic Yves Smith. That site was named by Time magazine as one of the best 25 Best Financial Blogs in 2011 and by Wired magazine as a crucial site to follow for finance, and Smith has been featured as a guest on programs such as PBS's Bill Moyers Show. Yet this cowardly group of anonymous smear artists, promoted by the Washington Post, has now placed them on a blacklist of Russian disinformation.
The group eschews alternative media outlets like these and instead recommends that readers rely solely on establishment-friendly publications like NPR, the BBC, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, BuzzFeed, and VICE. That is because a big part of the group's definition for "Russian propaganda outlet" is criticizing U.S. foreign policy.
PropOrNot does not articulate its criteria in detail, merely describing its metrics as "behavioral" and "motivation-agnostic." That is to say, even if a news source is not technically a Russian propaganda outlet and is not even trying to help the Kremlin, it is still guilty of being a "useful idiot" if it publishes material that might in some way be convenient or helpful for the Russian government. In other words, the website conflates criticism of Western governments and their actions and policies with Russian propaganda. News sites that do not uncritically echo a pro-NATO perspective are accused of being mouthpieces for the Kremlin, even if only unwitting ones.
While blacklisting left-wing and libertarian journalists, PropOrNot also denies being McCarthyite. Yet it simultaneously calls for the U.S. government to use the FBI and DOJ to carry out "formal investigations" of these accused websites, "because the kind of folks who make propaganda for brutal authoritarian oligarchies are often involved in a wide range of bad business." The shadowy group even goes so far as to claim that people involved in the blacklisted websites may "have violated the Espionage Act, the Foreign Agent Registration Act, and other related laws."
In sum: They're not McCarthyite; perish the thought. They just want multiple U.S. media outlets investigated by the FBI for espionage on behalf of Russia.
Who exactly is behind PropOrNot, where it gets its funding, and whether or not it is tied to any governments is a complete mystery. The Intercept also sent inquiries to the Post's Craig Timberg asking these questions, and asking whether he thinks it is fair to label left-wing news sites like Truthout "Russian propaganda outlets." Timberg replied: "I'm sorry, I can't comment about stories I've written for the Post."
As is so often the case, journalists — who constantly demand transparency from everyone else — refuse to provide even the most basic levels for themselves. When subjected to scrutiny, they reflexively adopt the language of the most secrecy-happy national security agencies: We do not comment on what we do.
Timberg's piece on the supposed ubiquity of Russian propaganda is misleading in several other ways. The other primary "expert" upon which the article relies is Clint Watts, a fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a pro-Western think tank whose board of advisers includes neoconservative figures like infamous orientalist scholar Bernard Lewis and pro-imperialist Robert D. Kaplan, the latter of whom served on the U.S. government's Defense Policy Board.
What the Post does not mention in its report is that Watts, one of the specialists it relies on for its claims, previously worked as an FBI special agent on a Joint Terrorism Task Force and as the executive officer of the U.S. Military Academy's Combating Terrorism Center. As Fortune's Ingram wrote of the group, it is "a conservative think tank funded and staffed by proponents of the Cold War between the U.S. and Russia."
PropOrNot is by no means a neutral observer. It actively calls on Congress and the White House to work "with our European allies to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT financial transaction system, effective immediately and lasting for at least one year, as an appropriate response to Russian manipulation of the election."
In other words, this blacklisting group of anonymous cowards — putative experts in the pages of the Washington Post — is actively pushing for Western governments to take punitive measures against the Russian government and is speaking and smearing from an extreme ideological framework that the Post concealed from its readers.
Even more disturbing than the Post's shoddy journalism in this instance is the broader trend in which any wild conspiracy theory or McCarthyite attack is now permitted in U.S. discourse as long as it involves Russia and Putin — just as was true in the 1950s when stories of how the Russians were poisoning the U.S. water supply or infiltrating American institutions were commonplace. Any anti-Russia story was — and is — instantly vested with credibility, while anyone questioning its veracity or evidentiary basis is subject to attacks on their loyalties or, at best, vilified as "useful idiots."
Two of the most discredited reports from the election season illustrate the point: a Slate article claiming that a private server had been located linking the Trump Organization and a Russian bank (which, like the current Post story, had been shopped around and rejected by multiple media outlets) and a completely deranged rant by Newsweek's Kurt Eichenwald claiming that Putin had ordered emails in the WikiLeaks release to be doctored — both of which were uncritically shared and tweeted by hundreds of journalists to tens of thousands of people, if not more.
The Post itself — now posing as a warrior against "fake news" — published an article in September that treated with great seriousness the claim that Hillary Clinton collapsed on 9/11 Day because she was poisoned by Putin. And that's to say nothing of the paper's disgraceful history of convincing Americans that Saddam was building non-existent nuclear weapons and had cultivated a vibrant alliance with al Qaeda. As is so often the case, those who mostly loudly warn of "fake news" from others are themselves the most aggressive disseminators of it.
Indeed, what happened here is the essence of fake news. The Post story served the agendas of many factions: those who want to believe Putin stole the election from Hillary Clinton; those who want to believe that the internet and social media are a grave menace that needs to be controlled, in contrast to the objective truth that reliable old media outlets once issued; those who want a resurrection of the Cold War. So those who saw tweets and Facebook posts promoting this Post story instantly clicked and shared and promoted the story without an iota of critical thought or examination of whether the claims were true, because they wanted the claims to be true. That behavior included countless journalists.
So the story spread in a flash, like wildfire. Tens of thousands of people, perhaps hundreds of thousands or even millions, consumed it, believing that it was true because of how many journalists and experts told them it was. Virtually none of the people who told them this spent a minute of time or ounce of energy determining if it was true. It pleased them to believe it was, knowing it advanced their interests, and so they endorsed it. That is the essence of how fake news functions, and it is the ultimate irony that this Post story ended up illustrating and spreading far more fake news than it exposed.
Wow. So some strange, nefarious outlet declared that Russia is pushing wild propaganda on the Internet. Granted, the group's nature and methods are unclear, and maybe overstated.
But really, what's so preposterous about it? Is it really worth this sanctimonious rage, and a hair-on-fire, panties-in-a-bunch reaction?
As for the idea that Vlad Putin is a trustworthy and upright citizen of the world … well, Norton and Greenwald must be smoking some pretty good stuff if they actually think that.
Its worth every bit of the rage and well justified, because the shady group are fascist scum who spread fake news which only serves their greedy, selfish putrid little lives. Soon the public will rise and they will swing from lamposts, and good riddance to these manipulative, evil, psychopathic sociopaths.
"Editor's Note: The Washington Post on Nov. 24 published a story on the work of four sets of researchers who have examined what they say are Russian propaganda efforts to undermine American democracy and interests. One of them was PropOrNot, a group that insists on public anonymity, which issued a report identifying more than 200 websites that, in its view, wittingly or unwittingly published or echoed Russian propaganda. A number of those sites have objected to being included on PropOrNot's list, and some of the sites, as well as others not on the list, have publicly challenged the group's methodology and conclusions. The Post, which did not name any of the sites, does not itself vouch for the validity of PropOrNot's findings regarding any individual media outlet, nor did the article purport to do so. "
Since publication of The Post's story, PropOrNot has removed some sites from its list. The note follows intense criticism of the article. It was "rife with obviously reckless and unproven allegations," Intercept reporters Glenn Greenwald and Ben Norton wrote, calling PropOrNot, one of the groups whose research was cited in Timberg's piece, "anonymous cowards." One of the sites PropOrNot cited as Russian-influenced was the Drudge Report.
Thank you Ben Norton for informing me that that Prop or Not smiley face emoticon was in fact a smiley face emoticon. I come here for serious journalism, and the very notion of seeing a smiley face there in the actual body of this august publication – nude of any parenthetical explanation – truly makes me shudder to my core.
And — it's official. They have their very own privatized version of the Great Firewall now: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-internet-extremism-database-idUSKBN13U2W8 At this point we go from having silly conversations about begging one or the other not to be censors to looking for who will try to stand up as a replacement for America.
Brand new vapid Washington Post story calling for creepy blacklisting, but now it's of students:
They swallow a crazy PSA that butters people up with the idea that if they only noticed, really carefully, like Sherlock Holmes (nay, better than Holmes, since he always starts after a death!) they could tell who was going to commit a gun massacre. They just have to be on the lookout for "antisocial" kids who have "outbursts" and watch videos about guns on YouTube. Very clever.
You know, some of those videos probably have a million hits, so where are the million shooters? Well, that's where the Other Shoe fits in. It should be obvious that no real human being can actually track every video the kid watches and decide how dangerous it is and tie it in with his body language and his political ideology to decide if he is a Risk. No, only an all-wise, all-powerful, all-knowing Machine can do that. And aren't we lucky that just such a machine exists, and awaits only a pittance of taxpayer money to set it loose on the population?
The Other Other Shoe still has to drop after that though. What do you do with all those Risks? I mean, you see a kid being bullied and ostracized, and you do what any professional teacher or ambitious student would do, namely join in – brand him as too dangerous to join in this or that, learn this or that, ever get a job, ever have access to arms I suppose. But then what – you end up with millions of To-Be Killers and now you're making them want to kill somebody. It should be clear that only a drone air force capable of targeted strikes based on behavioral characteristics can settle things properly…
Couple of years ago I thought Washington Post was one of the "most trusted papers". Now I'm feeling like Xinhua might be more likely to make sense.
PropOrNot would have had better luck if it had put together a more or less plausible list of actual Russia-sympathetic sites and then slipped in one or two sites that it was hoping to discredit.
However, it cast its net too wide. Although it did include a few actual Russian government-run websites (e.g. RT.com, Pravda.ru) on its list, PropOrNot also targeted:
Many highly-respected American left-leaning sites, including NakedCapitalism.com, CounterPunch.org, Truth-Out.org, ConsortiumNews.com and TruthDig.com.
Many highly respected American conservative and libertarian sites, including Antiwar.com, LewRockwell.com, 23-year Congressman Ron Paul's RonPaulInstitute.org, former Head of the Office of Management and Budget David Stockman's DavidStockmansContraCorner.com and former Deputy Treasury Secretary and Wall Street Journal Editor Paul Craig Roberts' PaulCraigRoberts.org.
Many other extremely popular American websites, including DrudgeReport.com, ZeroHedge.com, Rense.com, InfoWars.com and WhatReallyHappened.com.
Sites publishing documents leaked by whistleblowers (WikiLeaks.org and DCLeaks.com).
While this wide range of targets produced a spectacular initial press release, the variety of sites named as "useful idiots" for the Russians caused the whole project to come off as unhinged (see for example here, here, here, and here). The targeted websites, which absent PropOrNot's clumsiness might have been maneuvered into internecine struggles, instead largely closed ranks against what they melodramatically termed a "new McCarthyism."
Propornot owner identity revealed:
Viewing source code of propornot.com reveals an Adsense id (1556223355139109). Adsense id's are unique. It's a good way to identify the owner behind multiple domains that use the same id.
Searching for 1556223355139109 reveals this cached page:
There you will find a long list of spammy sites connected with this Adsense id. I found a name but I won't post it. I'll leave it up to you reporters to finish tracking down this guy down.
I'm thinking the media was well played by this guy. There is no propornot team.
And this is how the Hutu's got their folks to kill Tutsis. Let's all shout fire in a crowded theatre….what could go wrong?
Clinton Stupidity© of Neera Tanden quality written all over this podesta dna-laden utterly transparent desperation tactic-
Truly a 1% Waplorable!
It's probably run by Robby Mook, Neera Tandem, David Brock trolls and HFA interns. I recognize their tweet style. :^)
With the help of uncritical journalists Glenn Greenwald and Ben Norton, the Intercept's November 26th story about the Washington Post / ProporNot debacle ended up disseminating far more "fake news" than it exposed.
Greenwald and Norton noted:
"PropOrNot listed numerous organizations on its website as 'allied' with it, yet many of these claimed 'allies' told The Intercept, and complained on social media, they have nothing to do with the group and had never even heard of it before the Post published its story."
Greenwald and Norton then saw fit to publish verbatim the Twitter remarks from Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat and James Miller of the InterpreterMag.
Displaying a shocking lack of skepticism, Greenwald and Norton did not bother to conduct even the most basic investigation of PropOrNot's purported "Allies" Bellingcat and InterpreterMag.
The Intercept entirely bypassed the reality that Bellingcat is allied with the Washington Post and directly affiliated with numerous organizations listed by PropOrNot, including Stopfake, and the Atlantic Council's Digital Forensics Research Lab.
In addition, self-acclaimed "expert on verifying citizen journalism" Miller has frequently promoted self-acclaimed "citizen investigative journalist" Higgins. The Intercept allows Miller to do what he does best: simply chime in to "confirm" Higgins' claims.
After giving a platform for Bellingcat and InterpreterMag, posting direct links to the Twitter remarks of Higgins and Miller, the Intercept simply accepts these alibis at face value.
Greenwald and Norton then noted that PropOrNot had updated its site:
"after multiple groups listed as 'allies' objected, the group quietly changed the title of its 'allied' list to 'Related Projects.' When The Intercept asked PropOrNot about this clear inconsistency via email, the group responded concisely: 'We have no institutional affiliations with any organization.'"
If Greenwald and Norton had used the opportunity to visit the Bellingcat site, it would have become instantly apparent that Higgins' group of so-called "independent researchers" precisely matches the Intercept's description of ProporNot.
Indeed, Higgins' group "far more resembles amateur peddlers of primitive, shallow propagandistic clichés than serious, substantive analysis and expertise; that it has a blatant, demonstrable bias in promoting NATO's narrative about the world; and that it is engaging in extremely dubious McCarthyite tactics about a wide range of critics and dissenters".
Interestingly, on November 25, the day before the Intercept article appeared, Higgins Tweeted: "So it's clear, @ bellingcat in no way endorses the work or methodology of @ propornot, and have found their behaviour unprofessional".
What is clear about the Intercept article is that Bellingcat is positioned as a "professional" organization in comparison to PropOrNot.
The deeper layer of deception underlying the Washington Post episode is that PropOrNot functions as a conspicuous straw man.
Repudiation of PropOrNot can be leveraged to project the appearance that Bellingcat and "Related Projects" are "professional" organizations of true "independent researchers" by comparison.
This disinformation strategy is reinforced by the fact that Bellingcat is allied with the Washington Post and New York Times, the two principal mainstream media organs for "regime change" propaganda, via the First Draft Coalition "partner network".
In a triumph of Orwellian Newspeak, this Google-sponsored Propaganda 3.0 coalition declares that member organizations will "work together to tackle common issues, including ways to streamline the verification process".
The Washington Post / PropOrNot episode is no accident of journalistic malfeasance. (WaPo had no need to embellish its track record.)
The PropOrNot hoopla is a highly streamlined Propaganda 3.0 process designed to elevate the "professional" status of Bellingcat.
By disgracefully promoting Higgins and Bellingcat, Greenwald and Norton have verifiably served as "useful idiots". Or worse.
Here's a case of the Washington Post's propaganda mill stepping well over that subtle boundary between foaming at the mouth and just drooling like an idiot: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/12/01/justin-trudeaus-claim-that-castro-made-significant-improvements-to-cuban-health-care-and-education/
Data from the mid-1950s indicate that per capita consumption of calories in Cuba was 2,730 in the mid-1950s — and 2,357 in 1996. Meanwhile, other countries in the region saw an improvement; for example, Mexico went from 2,420 to 3,137 calories.
Now to be sure, Cuba had a very bad time of things from 1991 to 1995 (the "Special Period"). But sources like the World Food Programme seem to give them credit for prioritizing food security. Meanwhile, Mexico's tremendous progress is seen on the scale – they are famously the most obese country in the world, surpassing the United States.
Obesity often correlates with poverty; foods with high calories and poor nutrition are more accessible to the poor. So if Cubans are eating fewer calories, this is anything but proof that their economy is failing them. Based on their life expectancy figures, which is now #32, just behind the U.S. at #31, I daresay their nutrition must be reasonably good.
And despite 50 years of punitive and vicious sanctions by the U.S. and that part of the world the U.S. dominates, not to mention all sorts of other economic warfare, attempted assassinations, and so on…
KAPERNICK is a hero: get on one knee with him, or get on both knees, and beg for your life in front of a mass grave.
The USA is the biggest threat to world survival on all fronts: from global warming, nuclear weapons, military follies, and the destruction of peaceful political movements since Operation Gladio, to unrelenting bigotry and ignorant hatred.
I pray for a natural disaster to wipe these pigs form the face of the Earth. No one will miss the USA, just as everyone shrugged when Rome was obliterated.
I think it is essential to note that the NYT award winning reporter and book author on international issues, David Sanger, used this article and another shady group to promote the issue that Putin and Russia was a danger to US democracy and even suggested that Germany and France were now vulnerable to the almighty Putin. He used these same "sources" and did so in a bizarre way when noting the White House sent out a message that no Russian manipulation of the elections had occurred, which is odd, since the only reason to do that would be to give some validity to the idea that maybe it was possible. This use of these sources by Sanger put in doubt his entire opus of work until now, especially his use of "anonymous sources" if these are the sources he is willing to quote. The use of anonymous sources rests on the respectability and good name of the reporter involved. Sanger and the Times' uncritical use of this story, especially in light of Lee Fang's piece in which he identifies real sources of "false news" is deeply troubling. Not least of all is Sanger's notion that opinion pieces criticizing US support to overthrow Assad in Syria is the equivalent of "false news" suggests that expressing viewpoints opposed to US military and political projects are essentially "false news" in the service of a malevolent Russia is really creepy. I would like to see Greenwald and others examine this issue in the light of Sanger's piece.
I have not checked out The Intercept yet, and don't know where it's credibility level stands. I have checked out a great number of other sites (and a very large number of smearing comments about the Democratic Party, Clinton, etc, as well as claims about Trump and the GOP both positive and negative) durng this past election year and found that most negative reports about Clinton were false, most negative reports about Trump were accurate, that blatant attempts were made to smear Clinton with already-debunked nonsense over and over by both the same screen names and the same GROUP of posters who all switched from one tactic to another as a group simultaneously, that similar anti-Trump attempts did not exist but rather posters brought up documented negatives about him and his record over and over, that the group Clinton smear posts also often contained obvious lack of familiarity with fundamental information known to Americans…and that an astonishingly high percentage of the posts claiming false negatives against Clinton and/or claiming there was no Russian attempt to influence the election contained word for word copies of articles stating just the opposite that had been edited to switch names, organizations, ideology and political party, the journalists who wrote them, and the sources they appeared in. The general Post story is very much in line with what I found myself, over several months. The question is, why would someone attack it and ignore all of that? The fact of hoax news, deliberate faked news, and that such falsehoods are far more smears against Clinton than truth about either Trump or Clinton because of what "sells" is found in numerous sources. Why is that not considered important?
…I have not checked out The Intercept yet, and don't know where it's credibility level stands.
NEITHER DOES PROPORNOT if you don't know, look it up.
…I have checked out a great number of other sites (and a very large number of smearing comments about the Democratic Party, Clinton, etc, as well as claims about Trump and the GOP both positive and negative) during this past election year and found that most negative reports about Clinton were false…
…most negative reports about Trump were accurate…
…that blatant attempts were made to smear Clinton with already-debunked nonsense over and over by both the same screen names and the same GROUP of posters…
…who all switched from one tactic to another as a group simultaneously…
…that similar anti-Trump attempts did not exist…
…but rather posters brought up documented negatives about him and his record over and over…
…that the group Clinton smear posts also often contained obvious lack of familiarity with fundamental information known to Americans…
…and that an astonishingly high percentage of the posts claiming false negatives against Clinton and/or claiming there was no Russian attempt to influence the election…
…contained word for word copies of articles stating just the opposite…
…that had been edited to switch names… FROM WHAT NAME TO WHAT NAME?
…switch organizations… FROM WHAT ORG TO WHAT ORG
…switch ideology… FROM WHAT IDEOLOGY TO WHAT IDEOLOGY?
…switch political partys… FROM WHAT PARTY TO WHAT PARTY?
…switch the journalists who wrote them… FROM WHO TO WHO?
…switch and the sources they appeared in… FROM WHERE TO WHERE
The general Post story is very much in line with what I found myself, over several months.
The question is, why would someone attack it and ignore all of that?
…The fact of hoax news, deliberate faked news, and that such falsehoods are…
…far more smears against Clinton than truth about either Trump or Clinton because of what "sells…
..is found in numerous sources. Why is that not considered important?…
FACTS: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-29/what-professional-disinformation-campaign-looks. This Is What A Professional Disinformation Campaign Looks Like.
"Today Wikileaks published in searchable format (https://wikileaks.org/hbgary-emails/) more than 60 thousand emails from private intelligence firm HBGary. As Wikileaks reported on its website (https://wikileaks.org/hbgary-emails/press-release), "the publication today marks the early release of US political prisoner Barrett Brown, who was detained in 2012 and sentenced to 63 months in prison in connection with his journalism on Stratfor and HBGary. Coinciding with Mr Brown's release from prison WikiLeaks is publishing a searchable index of the HBGary emails. WikiLeaks published the Stratfor emails in 2012."
If influenced by anything the present dnc party is pimping, then what you believe are clean sources are actually known tainted rivers of toxic liar shitstew-
Clintons are shitstew and hav fed it thru the DNC andso are really GOP-Jeb types looking directly at you saying they are all that is between you and the devil incarnate, and the tone of your comment shows that you swallow this deception hook line and sinker-
Read stuff here and when you have time, look and see where the people who write here came from, and why they are here-
IOW, if you don't know anything about the Intercept than look it up!
This Is What A Professional Disinformation Campaign Looks Like
Today Wikileaks published in searchable format more than 60 thousand emails from private intelligence firm HBGary. As Wikileaks reported on its website, "the publication today marks the early release of US political prisoner Barrett Brown, who was detained in 2012 and sentenced to 63 months in prison in connection with his journalism on Stratfor and HBGary. Coinciding with Mr Brown's release from prison WikiLeaks is publishing a searchable index of the HBGary emails. WikiLeaks published the Stratfor emails in 2012."
For those who missed it five years ago, the story behind the leak is fascinating.
The HBGary emails are from four email accounts of key people from HBGary and HBGary Federal. HBGary was founded in 2003 by Greg Hoglund to provide cyber security-related services to corporate clients. A separate entity, HBGary Federal, was managed by Aaron Barr to do similar work for government agencies and so had staff with security clearances and worked with companies such as Booz Allen Hamilton (one of the contractors Edward Snowden worked for).
As was reported several years ago, in February 2011 Aaron Barr stated he had been investigating the internet activist group Anonymous and claimed to have uncovered the real identities of some of what he described as the leaders of the organisation. In retaliation Anonymous penetrated Barr's organisation and took emails from the accounts of four key people from HBGary and HBGary Federal: Aaron Barr and Greg Hoglund, but also Ted Vera (then Chief Operating Officer at HBGary Federal) and Phil Wallisch, a former Principal Technical Consultant.
These emails and revelations from them started to be published on the internet, predominantly through the work of Barrett Brown and a crowd-sourced investigative journalism project he ran: Project PM. As a result, later that month Barr was forced to step down, HBGary Federal closed and HBGary, Inc. was sold to ManTech International. This would have been little consolation to Mr Brown, who a month later on 6 March 2012 had both his and his mother's houses raided by the FBI, seeking "Records relating to HBGary, Infragard, Endgame Systems, Anonymous, LulzSec, IRC chats, Twitter, wiki.echelon2.org, and pastebin.com." Agents seized his laptops.
Barrett Brown's work through Project PM was one of the first collaborative investigations into the US corporate surveillance industry. Looking into corporate firms that work hand-in-hand with the government to surveil on citizens, Mr Brown was one of the first to shed light on this unaccountable industry.
The HBGary revelations that came out through the work of Barret Brown and others showed that HBGary and related companies were involved in plans to spread disinformation and to attack watchdog organisations, including WikiLeaks and US Chamber Watch. For example, the emails revealed a plan to form a group called Team Themis with a number of companies from the industry to "ruin" WikiLeaks by submitting false documents in the hope they would be published, as well as discrediting WikiLeaks staff and supporters, including journalist Glenn Greenwald. HBGary was also bidding to fulfil a tender from the US Air Force to assist it in manipulating social media to spread propaganda about the Air Force.
"……Some posters are so pro-Russia in their comments (especially at the Guardian) that you know they are Russian-bots, but t]hey always want to give the appearance that they are westerners disagreeing with western policies. They very much mirror the radical left in their comments. They never admit they are Russian. [Because in a western democracy, westerners can never disagree with western policy. So anyone who does must be either from Russia or the radical left. That's the only argument I have]…….." – DocHollywood's addition in brackets
You would think that I was the only one to observe posters appearing from Russia. Indeed, Russian-bots are frequent guest as the editor of the Guardian noted, Doc (Guardian, May 4, 2014):
"…….Trolling covers a multitude of sins but a particularly nasty strain has emerged in the midst of the armed conflict in Ukraine, which infests comment threads on the Guardian and elsewhere, despite the best efforts of moderators. Readers and reporters alike are concerned that these are from those paid to troll, and to denigrate in abusive terms anyone criticising Russia or President Vladimir Putin……"
You gotta love the use of the word "infests". Personally, I don't consider this to be trolling since most were advancing a point of view – and that made responding that much more enjoyable. It's not easy to defend Russian aggression in Ukraine by the way. I just wish they were a little more up-front. In addition, according to the New York Times (August 28, 2016):
"…….In Crimea, eastern Ukraine and now Syria, Mr. Putin has flaunted a modernized and more muscular military. But he lacks the economic strength and overall might to openly confront NATO, the European Union or the United States. Instead, he has invested heavily in a program of "weaponized" information, using a variety of means to sow doubt and division. The goal is to weaken cohesion among member states, stir discord in their domestic politics and blunt opposition to Russia……"
No kidding? Can you imagine that?
"……. [I just know he's one of those] Russian-bots. [That's the only possible explanation. Even though it's not an explanation; it's a label]……." – DocHollywood comment in brackets
I give you this Doc: it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between a Russian-bot and a radical anti-American leftist since they advance nearly identical arguments – but I wouldn't want to wear either label.
Thanks Doc as always……..
The post lightly [edited] for clarity:
"You would think that I was the only one [making the fact-free claim] that posters [are] appearing from Russia. Indeed, Russian-bots are frequent guest[s] as the editor of the Guardian [citing no examples, no names, and no evidence, claimed – so it must be true – that]:
". . .Readers and reporters alike are concerned that these are from those paid to troll, and to denigrate in abusive terms anyone criticising Russia or President Vladimir Putin……"
You gotta love the use of [an insubstantial statement devoid of any data that can be confirmed or refuted]. Personally, I don't consider this to be trolling since [I'm just repeating what I'm told] – and that made responding [without one iota of either evidence or thought] much more enjoyable. It's not easy to defend [make-believe] by the way. I just wish [everyone accepted without question whatever appears in the mainstream media]. In addition, according to the New York Times [SEPT. 8, 2002:
". . .Iraq has stepped up its quest for nuclear weapons and has embarked on a worldwide hunt for materials to make an atomic bomb. . .Officials say the aluminum tubes were intended as casing for rotors in centrifuges, which are one means of producing highly enriched uranium. The Washington Times reported in July that Iraq sought to acquire stainless steel for centrifuges on one occasion."]
No kidding? Can you imagine that?
I give you this: it's nearly impossible [for me] to tell the difference between [fantasy] and [fact] – but I wouldn't want to [try]."
Hi Doc
"……I give you this: it's nearly impossible [for me] to tell the difference between [fantasy] and [fact] – but I wouldn't want to [try]."….." – DocHollywood comment in brackets
There is nothing really earth-shattering about the attempts by Russian-bots to influence the debate on line. After all, that is why we comment. If I spoke Russian, I would surely enjoy commenting on some pro-Russian blogs located in the Soviet Union…..er Russia. The loss of Ukraine to the west was a bitter blow for Putin, and a massive intelligence failure on their part.
The Guardian READERS editor is a credible source. Possibly, you have a source that discredits the Guardian position on the "particularly nasty strain [that] has emerged in the midst of the armed conflict in Ukraine", but I doubt it ("The readers' editor on… the pro-Russia trolls below the line on Ukraine stories" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/04/pro-russia-trolls-ukraine-guardian-online?CMP=share_btn_tw
Personally, I would not delete any of their comments since it actually takes very little critical thinking to discredit their propaganda – like it was a US coup.
The article by Johnathan Marshall at Consortium News had something very interesting in the comments section ("Trump's Possible Path Out of Ukraine Crisis" https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/24/trumps-possible-path-out-of-ukraine-crisis/). In fact, in the first comment under the thread, there appears to be a very proud supporter of Russia with the moniker, "Stand with Russia". His comment is shown below:
Stand with Russia
November 24, 2016 at 9:29 am
"……..I think part of this is really foolish. Everyone knows that Crimea is mainly ethnic Russians and want to be part of Russia. And have wanted to rejoin Russia for years. The Western elite simply does not support self determination unless its specifically in their interests. Crimea is a moot point. That discussion is done. What you are describing would never happen because the Western elite knows they could do referendums till they are blue in the face and they will always side with joining Russia.
The way to stop this situation is partly for the people to pressure the puppets out of the government. Then Kiev needs to grant federalization and stop attacking the East. Then there should be a treaty making a large demilitarized zone.
The Western elite does not want to stop it. They know its an unwinnable frozen war so they just keep antagonizing Eastern Ukraine and keep it going to they can push ridiculous narratives about Russia…………."
In the years I have posted at the Guardian and the Intercept, I cannot recall anyone openly supporting Russia in Ukraine. "Stand with Russia" could very well be a citizen of Russia. Some posters are so pro-Russia in their comments (especially at the Guardian) that you know they are Russian-bots, but they always want to give the appearance that they are westerners disagreeing with western policies. They very much mirror the radical left in their comments. They never admit they are Russian
– craigsummers
The post lightly [edited] for clarity:
"The article by Johnathan Marshall at Consortium News had something very interesting in the comments section. . . a very proud supporter of [democracy and self-determination] with the moniker, "Stand with Russia." His comment is shown below:
Stand with Russia
November 24, 2016 at 9:29 am
". . .Everyone knows that Crimea is mainly ethnic Russians and want to be part of Russia. And have wanted to rejoin Russia for years. The Western elite simply does not support self determination unless its specifically in their interests.. . ."
In the years I have [spewed mindless drivel] at the Guardian and the Intercept, I cannot recall [ever] openly supporting [self-determination unless its specifically in the interests of the western elite. It's the job of the rubes they rule to internalize and regurgitate their propaganda.] "Stand with Russia" [doesn't perform this patriotic duty, so he] could very well be a citizen of Russia. [I just know he's one of those] Russian-bots. [That's the only possible explanation. Even though it's not an explanation; it's a label.
T]hey always want to give the appearance that they are westerners disagreeing with western policies. They very much mirror the radical left in their comments. They never admit they are Russian. [Because in a western democracy, westerners can never disagree with western policy. So anyone who does must be either from Russia or the radical left. That's the only argument I have.
It's the only argument I need.]"
The article by Johnathan Marshall at Consortium News had something very interesting in the comments section ("Trump's Possible Path Out of Ukraine Crisis" https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/24/trumps-possible-path-out-of-ukraine-crisis/). In fact, in the first comment under the thread, there appears to be a very proud supporter of Russia with the moniker, "Stand with Russia". His comment is shown below:
Stand with Russia
November 24, 2016 at 9:29 am
"……..I think part of this is really foolish. Everyone knows that Crimea is mainly ethnic Russians and want to be part of Russia. And have wanted to rejoin Russia for years. The Western elite simply does not support self determination unless its specifically in their interests. Crimea is a moot point. That discussion is done. What you are describing would never happen because the Western elite knows they could do referendums till they are blue in the face and they will always side with joining Russia.
The way to stop this situation is partly for the people to pressure the puppets out of the government. Then Kiev needs to grant federalization and stop attacking the East. Then there should be a treaty making a large demilitarized zone.
The Western elite does not want to stop it. They know its an unwinnable frozen war so they just keep antagonizing Eastern Ukraine and keep it going to they can push ridiculous narratives about Russia…………."
In the years I have posted at the Guardian and the Intercept, I cannot recall anyone openly supporting Russia in Ukraine. "Stand with Russia" could very well be a citizen of Russia. Some posters are so pro-Russia in their comments (especially at the Guardian) that you know they are Russian-bots, but they always want to give the appearance that they are westerners disagreeing with western policies. They very much mirror the radical left in their comments. They never admit they are Russian.
The surprise about how Fascism has taken over the entire West is ludicrous. All these oh so intellectual people are still having their heads deep up the left/right divide hole.
While the people may have changed since paperclip, the Fascism they installed, organized and refined to dumb down the Western populations remains the same that destroyed Germany and many other countries.
Fact remains that even those who thought they were part of the Fascist 'systems' – peddling it, promoting it, doing eagerly all its bidding – will in the end be crushed by Fascism. Because Fascism is a viral mental illness that will always kill its host.
With glee I am witnessing the development of Nazi America to ask all those gullible Americans:
"How Could You Let This Happen?"
In case you really need the answer:
"Just like that."
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
-Joseph Goebbels
This article by vanden Heuvel, also in the Post, sums up my feelings about "The Russians are Coming! The Russians are Coming!!":
It was the media, not Putin, who decided that catastrophic climate change didn't merit even one question during the course of the presidential debates, or decided that the troubling foreign-policy views of both the hawkish Clinton and the blustery Trump needed less probing than Clinton's emails or Trump's potty mouth.
…Gerrymandered congressional districts make it so that Democrats must win the popular vote by an overwhelming margin to have any hope of winning a majority in Congress. The Russian-state-funded RT may report on these grotesqueries, but Putin didn't create them.
…It doesn't take alleged Russian propaganda operations to reveal that the way we run elections is a disgrace. Leaders of both parties, if they had any concern for the republic, would move expeditiously to reform our election laws. And it doesn't take Russian hackers to discredit our free press.
Greenwald clings to obsolete reality-based news concepts.
And why did COUNTERPUNCH make the list?
*Enter the ADL's (and Mossad's) Abraham Foxman* The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), with 34 regional offices in North American, a staff of 400, and a $32 million annual budget, is one of the core organizations of the Israel lobby in the United States, exposed by U.S. political scientists John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt in their study "The Israel lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy." The ADL has a long and sordid history http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/12/adl-spies/ of spying on, slandering and vilifying critics of Israel -victims of its infiltration have included the NAACP, the ACLU, Greenpeace, the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination League, and thousands of private citizens, among others – in cooperation with Israel's foreign intelligence service, Mossad.
ps.. Someone mentioned that donations masked by David Brock could be money laundering and i replied it wasn't. An example of money laundering is
elected reps in congress use American taxpayer money and give it to israel under certain pretenses which money, fungible as it is, could end up in the hands of an israeli lobby in the US who then give gifts to the congress whores and fund their re-election.
CP is now a wasteland of commie losers,intent on divide and conquer,as its all they print.
Cockburns death killed it.
link for the upper content
found it in the podesta email group searchword MOSSAD
lots of stuff came up
Deception operations have many layers, and have a lot to do with what is known in marketing parlance as "positioning".
Aghast at the "shoddy journalism" of the Washington Post, Glenn Greenwald and Ben Norton of the Intercept see fit to publish Twitter remarks from Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat and James Miller of the Interpreter.
Greenwald and Norton curiously take the Tweets of Higgins and Miller as flat fact, unworthy of further investigation.
If Greenwald and Norton had used the opportunity to visit the Bellingcat site, it would have become instantly apparent that Higgins' group of ostensible "independent researchers" is precisely described by Greenwald's assesment of ProporNot:
Bellingcat "far more resembles amateur peddlers of primitive, shallow propagandistic clichés than serious, substantive analysis and expertise; that it has a blatant, demonstrable bias in promoting NATO's narrative about the world; and that it is engaging in extremely dubious McCarthyite tactics about a wide range of critics and dissenters".
If Greenwald and Norton had conducted an actual investigation of PropOrNot "Related Project" Bellingcat, they would have to acknowledge the frequency with which Higgins engages in "McCarthyite tactics" against critics, including veteran journalists Seymour Hersh and Robert Parry.
Parry's exposure of Higgins' erroneous claims about the 2013 chemical attacks in Ghouta, Syria and Bellingcat's numerous deceptive "investigation reports" about the 2014 crash of Malaysian Air flight MH-17 in eastern Ukraine have triggered numerous Twitter attacks from Higgins.
If Greenwald had done a real investigation of PropOrNot's list of purported "Allies", he would have verified that self-acclaimed "expert on verifying citizen journalism" Miller has frequently promoted self-acclaimed "citizen investigative journalist" Higgins.
Miller is the managing editor of The Interpreter Mag, a self-published project of The Institute of Modern Russia (IMR). The president of IMR is Pavel Khodorkovsky, the son of Russian former multi-billionaire Mikhail Khodorkovsky (who was released from prison in December 2013).
Bellingcat is verifiably allied with the Atlantic Council, a notorious "regime change" think tank", and Mikhail Khodorkovsky's Open Russia organization.
Media darling Higgins has repeatedly claimed to be under attack by the Kremlin, and froths about "Kremlin trolls" at the drop of a hat.
Google, an enthusiastic supporter of Higgins despite his track record of baseless claims about Syria and Russia, helped form the First Draft Coalition in June 2015 with Bellingcat as a founding member. In addition to the fake "independent researchers" at Bellingcat, the First Draft "partner network" includes the New York Times and Washington Post, the two principal media organs for "regime change" propaganda.
In a triumph of Orwellian Newspeak, this Propaganda 3.0 coalition declares that member organizations will "work together to tackle common issues, including ways to streamline the verification process".
Let's hope the WaPo/ProporNot debacle won't end up buried the shoddy journalism of Greenwald and Norton.
Your slip is showing!
"Some of the websites on PropOrNot's blacklist do indeed publish Russian propaganda — namely Sputnik News and Russia Today, which are funded by the Russian government."
Using the same yardstick, BBC fully qualifies as a propaganda outlet of the British government.
Moreover the non-Western world considers Western corporate media content as propaganda peddled by the Western establishment.
The source of funding does not determine whether an outlet dispenses propaganda.
Propaganda is in the eye of the beholder.
Like all the other democratic parties foolery this is only great free advertisement for the sites the establishment fear the most.
I'm pretty sure it was Ron Paul who brought the policies and tactics of the "neoconservatives" to a much wider audience. As usual his warnings and diagnosis of who is really pulling the strings was prescient.
I wandered into the web site, Consortium News, since it is listed by PropOrNot in the Greenwald article. Consortium may or may not support Russia, but they certainly do propagate the same Russian propaganda. In an article written by Johnathan Marshall, November 24, 2016 ("Trump's Possible Path Out of Ukraine Crisis" https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/24/trumps-possible-path-out-of-ukraine-crisis/), Marshall recognizes the Russian sphere of influence. A "sphere of influence" is a cold war idea which is anti-democratic to the core. Russia has annexed part of Ukraine and is supporting a war in eastern Ukraine to retain that "right" to dominate adjacent countries. Theoretically, a countries "sphere of influence" should have ended when the Soviet Union (gratefully) collapsed – but not so in the world of the anti-American radical left:
"……..The U.S.-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014 sparked a New Cold War with Russia, but a President Trump could roll back tensions with a creative strategy for resolving the Ukraine standoff,………The Obama administration helped ignite that war by attempting to yank Ukraine out of Russia's orbit and into the Western security and economic sphere. Working alongside the European Union, Washington fanned mass street protests that led to a violent putsch against Kiev's elected government in February 2014……."
The idea of an area around Russia which belongs within a Russia sphere of influence is also supported by Greenwald. In a previous article at the Intercept, Greenwald quoted As'ad AbuKhalil:
"…….This is what imperialism is all about: to give yourself the right to intervene in far away places and to project power in every corner of the globe, including the arctic, and to disregard world public opinion. Imperialism is to have the temerity to lecture and hector Russia about the evils of intervention in the affairs of its neighbor, Ukraine, where the U.S. and EU are blatantly conspiring against Russian interests there………"
Besides promoting the idea that Russia has some kind of right to dominate her neighbors economically and militarily, Marshall also supports the Russian propaganda that this was a US coupe. The fact that the Ukraine people have been dominated since (at least) WWII by the Russians and Soviets seems to be irrelevant. Apparently, the Ukrainian people belong to their masters in Russia. But mention US dominance of South America (US sphere of influence) and it's a different story. Greenwald pointed the finger at the US for the impeachment of Rousseff, but without apparently acknowledging that Brazil is in the US sphere of influence – which he seems to recognize for Russia:
"……Many on the Brazilian left believe that the U.S. is actively engineering the current instability in their country in order to get rid of a left-wing party that has relied heavily on trade with China……"
The hypocrisy is breathtaking, but par for the course for the extreme left. Consortium pushes the standard RT lines, but it may not be so much in support of Russia as opposition to the US. The same can be said for the Palestinians: the radical left opposes the US far more than they support the Palestinians.
someone mis-spelled PORNOPORT
Since you are running off the rails here perhaps you can explain the new "Gaza is a prison Now", operation
Israel barring Fatah members from leaving Gaza:
Smart people would want people they dont favor to leave. Stupids gone paranoid crazy on the other hand come up with the dumbest solutions that arent really solutions but are instead problems. So the stupids solve a problem with another problem. Go figure.
" A "sphere of influence" is a cold war idea which is anti-democratic to the core. "
Oh? The US sphere of influence goes all the way back to Monroe and his Doctrine. I don't think any American president since then would agree with you, not even Jimmy Carter, who stated stated that "the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf. " How is that not a sphere of influence?
Patrick Powers
An sphere of influence is one of several subcategories of "imperialism". What the US, Japan (WWII) etc. has or has not done is NOT justification for Russian violation of the sovereignty of Ukraine – or the justification of Russia's violations by radical leftists like Johnathan Marshall at Consortium News and Glenn Greenwald (as I pointed out in my first post). You agree that the idea of a sphere of influence is anti-democratic simply because the economy of one country is controlled by a second country. In this case, the Russian puppet, Viktor Yanukovych, turned down closer economic ties to Europe in favor of Russia – which led to the revolution – and running the elected President out of the country.
Russia violated two agreements when they invaded Ukraine. Russia signed the Budapest Agreement in 1994 which recognized the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Additionally, in 1997, Russia entered into an agreement with NATO stating the "aim of creating in Europe a common space of security and stability, without dividing lines or spheres of influence limiting the sovereignty of any state." (Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security). Russia broke both agreements when they stole the Crimea Peninsula and supported the war in Eastern Ukraine.
Robert Parry and other contributors at Consortium News have investigated the propaganda efforts of Eliot Higgins and Bellingcat.
Greenwald and Norton of the Intercept have disgracefully provided an uncritical platform for Higgins.
Fake "citizen investigators" like Higgins and Bellingcat are employed as deception conduits by the more aggressive factions in Western governments, which seek to sabotage peace efforts in Ukraine, Syria and other parts of the world.
The Internet offers a ubiquitous, inexpensive and anonymous method for "open source" deception and rapid propaganda dissemination.
With no credible evidence of crimes by the Syrian government in its battle against terrorists or direct Russian military involvement in eastern Ukraine, and faced with the prevailing distrust of the Pentagon or Western intelligence agencies, Washington advanced an internet-based "open source" Propaganda 3.0 strategy.
The Pentagon and Western intelligence agencies now disseminate propaganda by making it "publicly available" via numerous channels, including "investigation reports" produced by Higgins and his Bellingcat site.
The actual purpose of these fake "citizen journalist" deception operatives is to provide a channel for Western propaganda to more effectively reach the public and be perceived as truthful.
As Ray McGovern pointed out in "Propaganda, Intelligence and MH-17" on Consortium News (August 17, 2015):
"The key difference between the traditional 'Intelligence Assessment' and this relatively new creation, a 'Government Assessment' is that the latter genre is put together by senior White House bureaucrats or other political appointees, not senior intelligence analysts. Another significant difference is that an 'Intelligence Assessment' often includes alternative views, either in the text or in footnotes, detailing disagreements among intelligence analysts, thus revealing where the case may be weak or in dispute.
"The absence of an 'Intelligence Assessment' suggested that honest intelligence analysts were resisting a knee-jerk indictment of Russia, just as they did after the first time Kerry pulled this 'Government Assessment' arrow out of his quiver trying to stick the blame for an Aug. 21, 2013 sarin gas attack outside Damascus on the Syrian government."
The primary source in both "Government Assessment" episodes, both the 2013 chemical attack in Syria and the 2014 crash of MH-17 in Ukraine, the one person in common who generated what McGovern accurately described as "pseudo-intelligence product, which contained not a single verifiable fact", was British blogger and media darling Eliot Higgins.
Higgins and the Bellingcat site serve as deception "conduits" as defined by the Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms (Joint Publication 1-02), a compendium of approved terminology used by the U.S. military.
Within military deception, "conduits" are information or intelligence gateways to the "deception target", defined as the "adversary decision maker with the authority to make the decision that will achieve the deception objective."
The primary "deception targets" of Propaganda 3.0 are Western government policymakers and the civilian populations of the United States and Europe Union.
Higgins has been actively promoting this deception strategy. In a January 2015 article, "Social media and conflict zones: the new evidence base for policymaking", Higgins citied "Bellingcat's MH17 investigation" as a prime example. Higgins' "overarching point" was that "there is a real opportunity for open source intelligence analysis to provide the kind of evidence base that can underpin effective and successful foreign and security policymaking. It is an opportunity that policymakers should seize."
US and EU policymakers definitely have seized the opportunities provided by Higgins, Bellingcat and other "open source" deception operatives.
Higgins was a principal author of the May 2015 Atlantic Council "report" on Ukraine.
Damon Wilson, Executive Vice President of Programs and Strategy at the Atlantic Council, a co-author with Higgins of the report, effusively praised Higgins' effort to bolster anti-Russian propaganda:
In the Atlantic Council's debut of the report, Wilson stated, "We make this case using only open source, all unclassified material. And none of it provided by government sources. And it's thanks to works, the work that's been pioneered by human rights defenders and our partner Eliot Higgins, uh, we've been able to use social media forensics and geolocation to back this up."
However, the Atlantic Council claim that "none" of Higgins' material was provided by government sources is an obvious lie.
Higgins' primary "pieces of evidence" are a video depicting a Buk missile launcher and a set of geolocation coordinates that were supplied by the SBU (Security Service of Ukraine) and the Ukrainian Ministry of Interior via the Facebook page of senior-level Ukrainian government official Arsen Avakov, the Minister of Internal Affairs.
Higgins and the Atlantic Council are working in support of the Pentagon and Western intelligence's "hybrid war" against Russia.
Intercept readers are invited to read Robert Parry's investigations on Consortium News:
MH-17: Two Years of Anti-Russian Propaganda (July 17, 2016)
Will NYT Retract Latest Anti-Russian 'Fraud'? (July 22, 2016)
Troubling Gaps in the New MH-17 Report (Sep 28, 2016)
What to Do About 'Fake News' (Nov 18, 2016)
A Brief History of the Election OMG PUTIN IS TAKING CONTROL OF THIS ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure Thomas Paine was considered "propaganda" too.
WOW! NutritionFacts is in the list! I know it. It's absolutly nonsence. Just eat plant-based diet and watch MORE TV:)
The Washington Post is a disgusting rag. We have unleashed the worst part of society and its going to take a fight to put this genie back in the bottle.Shame on you the editors, jounalislts and owner of the paper. But if you did have shame this would not have happened.
OK, except that no one who knows what's going on considers a corporate propaganda paper like the Post to be real news.
On the other hand, this McCarthy-like bullshit that Clinton and her minions pulled during the election seems to have taken off, unfortunately. We could be headed for some really bad times, and I'm not talking about Trump.
Noted, that most of the content was on PropOrNot and Watts, and none on the other named authors in the War on the Rocks report, because that would conflict with The Narrative. It's no secret that Putin has a Troll Army.
Cass Sunstein (Samantha Powers Hubby) was Barack Obamas Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs
Read more about Cass Sunstein's agenda in "Shut Up, America!: The End of Free Speech"
Sunstein said government agents "might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action."
Sunstein defined a conspiracy theory as "an effort to explain some event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role."
Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law professor who has been appointed to a shadowy post that will grant him powers that are merely mind-boggling, explicitly supports using the courts to impose a "chilling effect" on speech that might hurt someone's feelings. He thinks that the bloggers have been rampaging out of control and that new laws need to be written to corral them.
Advance copies of Sunstein's new book, "On Rumors: How Falsehoods Spread, Why We Believe Them, What Can Be Done," have gone out to reviewers ahead of its September publication date, but considering the prominence with which Sunstein is about to be endowed, his worrying views are fair game now. Sunstein is President Obama's choice to head the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. It's the bland titles that should scare you the most.
so does everyone when it comes to power or money
israel does
the political parties do
so did t-boone for fracking
so do IPO's for the boards to support buy sides
so do short sellers – especially the naked ones
It is shocking how gullible Americans are falling under the spell of the CIA/ VoA, RL trolls that besieged this site after Glenn utterly repudiated WAPO piece and fake CIA-DOD website that proliferated this crap and its empty bully threats.
It looks like that CIA false flag op under WAPO article and ProPornOt fake site is somehow working and American sheeple are biting the crap and gorge themselves on that nonsense again.
Picking up the false narratives and lies that this is about Russian influence of the US elections when the massive MSM media has unified and become a tube for Hillary propaganda, as ruling establishment wanted.
In fact Glenn is writing about nothing close to it. And certainly not about motivation driven propaganda of "external" influence of the US political process, knowing well that American political process for long decades is bought and sold by foreigners namely Israelis and their extortionist outfit AIPAC, as well as Saudis, EU, Japan even China during Bill Clinton years and many more buying American politicians wholesale every elections even by that pushing US into senseless wars and enormous expenditures.
Glenn is not talking about that either, although it would have been interesting, but solely about resurrecting insane McCarthyism within journalistic community that would lead straight to destruction of free speech.
The truth is that McCarthyism is coming back big time but this time with a corporate twist meaning that main targets are not government institutions or even corporate news or cultural organizations who are just mouthpieces of the government agenda yet but independent news media funded by specific foundations, corporate interests or completely unfunded living off donations of readers.
So far "The Intercept" that is epitomizing Russian propaganda as Wapo sees it, by publishing classified documents "stolen" by Snowden , a proverbial Russian spy, has been spared for now but believe me after Glenn's repudiation of Wapo editorial process they will make next list of enemies of the goodness and niceness of nuclear Armageddon pushers next to Disney.com and nightingalessing24-7.com
Their paranoia will only grow if not surgically removed by journalistic community with extreme prejudice. Hence pardon me for harsh language I feel totally appropriate to the occasion.
We must take this provocation of Wapo extremely seriously not only that blacklisting anybody either as unemployable or site as unvisitable etc., is a form of arbitrary discrimination for political reasons or any reasons but also because is a direct, inevitable and immediate path to fascism and open attack on the First Amendment and foundation of constitutional and social order by a Wapo gang peddling discrimination, old divisions of the people between humans and subhuman aliens strangers, slaves.
Now this monstrosity is metastasizing in sick minds of whom Wapo is peddling into subhuman journalists who need to be separated, alienated from society and sub-subhuman journalists who need to be jailed and sub-sub-subhuman beings, like whistle-blowers who like Snowden or Manning, need to be murdered as for concocted crimes against higher morality .
These are those provocateurs and fascism peddling enemies of the democracy that must be investigated for whom they are serving with their hatred and social division and why.
There is no exaggeration what enormous gravity Wapo piece of sh..it must be assigned and its abhorrent notions eradicated without prejudice in its core before the wild fire of terror and violence consumes us all. All independent medial journalists and readers must unite and must drown this puny voice of paranoia perpetuated by Wapo in the ocean of sanity and humanity.
As I see it, mildest response to this disgusting incident of publishing this pure provocation is utter repudiation of the motivation, methods and form of Wapo article as well as fake sources that were used, journalists and editors who derelict their duties of vetting the stories for hate inciting potential and instead they gave this sh..it a cloud of credibility must be fired immediately and for Bezos himself to immediately resign and sell the Wapo to a neutral foundation of journalism and the same should be addressed to NYT and others who must fire the editorial management at once before slew of lawsuits of slander hit them and massive boycott unfolds.
Once again there is no shred of exaggeration in what I am writing not at all.It is that serious.
In fact the problem is even deeper than McCarthyism and warmongering drum beat toward WWIII.
The WAPO shills are prostitutes for the global ruling elite and political establishment that have been horrible embarrassed of losing last shred of credibility, revealing themselves of buffoons, morons, big freaking mouth mof..os who do not know a sh ..it, not because they lie but cause they are impotent in shaping public opinion and manipulate outcome of elections thru propaganda lies they were paid for to proliferate and are now in panic that their bosses will whip their as–s hard and freak them up literally and metaphorically out of their cushy repugnant and dirty jobs as poor excuses for journalists, actually nothing but abhorrent influence peddlers. But their disdain for ordinary people and those in media who picked up fight for them is echoing the inhumane attitude of their ruling elite bosses.
Here is who are those ruling elite WAPO sold out to and foe whose silver coin the spew the McCarthyism venom:
An excerpt from:
"Structure of Society vs. Moral Attitudes [of Elites].
Every society consist of a continuously emerging elite, a group of often interbred families or clans that persuaded themselves that it is their prerogative to control the rest of society, seen as animalistic masses, immoral abominations of humanity.
They see themselves, whether they admit it or not, as reluctant saviors of the humanity, against all odds. Their self-proclaimed objective and perceived necessity is to become the absolute moral arbiters, life and death decision makers. They believe that they are Hegelian type "ubermensch", supermen, meant as the only true humans, the building blocks and foundations of perfect social order and the power structure able to support it. Hence, to hold the power is their solemn duty, a burden they must carry for the higher good of the society at large.
They consider themselves not as much better humans as they just consider the rest of the humanity as a certain earthly creatures, items of natural world, a resource to be harvested or exploited in any way they deem necessary.
Such a attitude permeates all the decision-making processes within the ruling elite, all understood not as means of survival and dominance but as a self-sacrifice for the higher end, for higher purposes than their individual well-being, one of the paranoid delusions deviously nurtured among themselves.
In their obviously psychopathic or even psychotic state of mind it is all about the binary moral order, the good and the evil, absolute truths and absolute values, incomprehensible concepts to those who don't belong, those unable to achieve the higher state of consciousness beyond any notion of forethought or petty human concerns. Seen as a matter of the objective reality, their law is their will and their morality is their immediate need or benefit, all the other considerations rescinded. They regard themselves beyond any earthly moral insecurities or doubts as an expression of the ultimate justice and absolute truth.
What is astounding that all those assertions are not developed and accepted by the ruling elite as much as dogmas of their rule but rather as a rational conclusion based on the results of numerous experiments and detailed observations of the society at large and its behavior. The ruling elite rationally concludes that their rule is the only thing that works for all the society.
The idea of the ruling elite as a conspiracy in common meaning of the word it is not, since they have no specific plan of action or even specific ultimate objective to be achieved, short of holding onto the power and expand the limits of control by whatever means available. What they use are the methods and techniques of manipulating of the population stratified into the casts or classes via propaganda of the abstract concepts of economic development, political process, social policies, law, religion, science, vertical mobility, sports, nationalism, racism etc., and in the cases when it fails they use raw brutality as the ultimate expression of "innate" morality of their power."
It is telling how you all are more than willing to push anonymous sources and suggest that both Trump and Clinton should be criticized (while focusing heavily on Clinton) (in the course of assisting, in a small part, in Trump's election) but completely unwilling to let other folks do similar. All sorts of media can be manipulated… and that was absolutely done by both campaigns in this election. You can be manipulated too.
Now expose the government targeting innocent citizens with military weapons to isolate them, ruin their lives and then try to have them act out criminally. They are using mind control and directed energy weapons (V2K, remote neural monitoring, microwaving, scalar, sound) and gang stalking on innocent citizens. These technologies can't be seen or traced and the victims are left with little recourse since the attacks can't be proven. The victims may appear to have mental issues, however it is the technology that is violating their minds and bodies causing voices, hallucinations, time lapses, and multiple other violations. Psychiatry is a hoax, these technologies cause many mental issues. Freedomfchs.net, ICAACT.org, Jesse Ventura's Brain Invaders youtube, intellihub.com, John Hall's book Guinea Pigs, Renee Pittman's (Anne Frank of our times) books and countless victims are trying to expose the truth. The media, politicians, and psychiatry all cover for this and are complicit for this torture taking place for decades remotely in every city. These psychopaths in government need to be exposed and the true terrorists are in government agencies remotely targeting individuals with military technology.
These technologies violate the minds and bodies of the afflicted persons and are the most egregious violation of human rights perpetrated by the government with your tax dollars. Taxpayers should be demanding their government quit paying for these crimes against humanity on law abiding citizens. No wonder we are broke. Why pay perps sitting at computers screwing with people in their beds and living rooms, these treasonous criminals and agencies need to be exposed and jailed. EXPOSE AND END THE TORTURE AND HOLOCAUST NOW.
lol msm is going full on derp!
The analysis in the WP article is spot on even if the website chosen to identify fake ne was improperly fact checked. As a leader of the smug left wing echo chamber, Greenwald was complicit in disseminating the stolen, hacked emails that Putin used to suppress HRC's vote and get trump elected. He needs to take responsibility, rethink his journalistic ethics and move on instead of looking for scapegoats to ease his conscience.
You are a lost, clueless idiot if you actually believe Putin had anything to do with HRC's losing the election. That there are people like you wandering around, spouting such stupidity leaves me a bit worried about the future of humanity.
Reminds me of that quote from Mark Twain about a lie being halfway around the world before truth has even put its boots on.
For them to be asking the FBI to investigate, that wouldn't be McCarthism, because McCarthy didn't care about whether the evidence is legit or not. But since they want it investigated that tells me this isn't McCarthism.
It is McCarthyism, just read more about it. When investigations spurred by his accusations showed that somebody was innocent , he accused FBI agents or police of being card carrying commies or useful idiots of Kremlin. His accusations had no end and were driven by his alcoholic hallucinations.
It is just exactly like McCarthyism, accusation is enough to divide people and to blacklist them, applying, as Chomsky wrote over two decades ago, an american totalitarian culture of submission to authority and alienation of all those who do not submit.
I was born in Russia and I have many friends there. I have seen a huge efforts of propaganda for Trump from Russian media. All the news in Russia had some part of lie that was anti Clinton and pro Trump. I don't know if Putin had planned this infowar but I have seen how all my friends in Russia and those who were listening the Russian news were brainwashed. Many news were false – about Clinton's illness for example. Obviously, Putin is interested in weakening NATO. I don't want to believe any rumors without a solid facts, but the Washington post statement have some valid point that you can't simply dismiss.
Excellent contribution.
Thank you.
When I see Putin driving Russian tanks down Pennsylvania Ave., I might start to worry, milt.
*I'm more concerned with the looming 'constitutional crisis'
if when President-elect refuses to divest from his global business obligations.
When I see Putin driving Russian tanks down Pennsylvania Ave., I might start to worry, milt.
I suspect this isn't true. You don't strike me as the que sera, sera sort.
But then, substitute "armored vehicles" for "Russian tanks" and "Putin ally" for "Putin" and that's less than two months away.
I strongly suspect many Ukrainians aren't so dismissive.
I also doubt they much care about a constitutional crisis in the US.
The United States is not the center of the universe.
@ milt'mello
I'm listening to Bernie on 'Democracy Now' … and thought of you.
#Bernie2017 … 2018 at the latest./
.. wasn't Ekaterina one of the muses in the romantic musical fantasy film, Xanadu?
h/t – eugene curran 'gene' kelly
"Believing rumors without solid facts"
Then please provides your facts on the following :
1. Clinton illness storyline was from Russia and no one else.
2. Putins interest in weakening NATO tied to any fake news stories.
3. WaPo's valid points that cannot be dismissed and evidence to support your comment.
Any alleged ex Russian who critiques Russians is obviously prejudiced against Russians,and probably a zionist,not Russian at all.
They hate Putin,and Trump,although they will gladly work with either if so desired.They are very very adaptable,for billions trump all .
They are going to buy more F35s with our tax dollars.
"Believing rumors without solid facts"
Then please provides your facts on the following :
There are places where facts are respected. Courtrooms, scholarly texts, box scores, election results, etc.
The internet is not one of those venues that respects facts.
You can dispute, dismiss, quibble over or accept anything you like on the internet.
Touching your middle finger to your thumb (the "asshole" symbol) and then pointing and waving your index finger at the sky while blabbering stuff like "people are saying …" and "believe me" isn't quite the frame I would expect from a rigorous fact freak.
In fact just the opposite. Maybe I'm wrong.
Prove me wrong.
Please provide your facts for concluding Putin isn't interested in annexing Ukraine.
Remember, you're NOT being asked to prove a negative.
You're being asked to provide facts that Putin has no interest in the Ukraine. You can say stuff like this: "there are no Russian troops in Ukraine," "MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian partisans," or "Putin wants to join NATO," or even "Crimea spontaneously decided to rejoin the old Russian empire. Putin had nothing to do with it."
Stuff like that.
I'm sure you have many such facts at your fingertips.
Have at it.
Red Herrings
"You're being asked to provide facts that Putin has no interest in the Ukraine."
Ummm, No. That's not what was asked or even hinted at. If you going to lie, you had better do better than this.
Where to begin with your garbage post is like picking through the garbage. Full of crap that is no longer relevant.
A) The post you are participating in from the comment from Ekterina regarding WaPo story. I asked her to provide some fact for the opinions she expressed. Not sure why you are bringing in non-relevant information.
B) the comment regarding MH17 was from a totally unrelated post by another commenter used as 'evidence' of Russian Propoganda. The question I recall was to provide why that story is Russian propaganda.
C) Since you believe MH17 is propaganda and I don't know or even care, it is incumbent upon you to prove it's propaganda.
I couldn't care less about Putin or his ambitions in Ukraine. The rest of your comment is just plain Troll Garbage.
I'll be expecting your usual Troll response to this post. Probably some more Red Herrings or I'm guessing you'll resort to Ad-Hominem attacks.
I'll give 2:1 odds on Red Herring; 3:1 odds on a Straw man rebuttal and finally, 5:1 odds on a Ad-Hominem attack.
If you don't know what these things are (like you didn't know what a Red-Baiting was), look them up and try not to rely on me for all your answers.
I'll give 2:1 odds on Red Herring; 3:1 odds on a Straw man rebuttal and finally, 5:1 odds on a Ad-Hominem attack.
A preemptive refutation!
Not many people have the precognitive skills you display. It's almost like you're reading your own mind. Your grasp of this internet art form is truly beyond my greatest reach.
No matter.
I'll humbly make the futile effort despite being a liar who offers red herrings, strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks on such a fine fellow as yourself.
Ekatrina said,
Obviously, Putin is interested in weakening NATO. I don't want to believe any rumors without a solid facts, but the Washington post statement have some valid point that you can't simply dismiss.
Instead of merely accepting her (I assume a female) statement for what it is — a personal observation — you demand she provide facts for her statements.
Then please provides your facts on the following :
1. Clinton illness storyline was from Russia and no one else.
2. Putins interest in weakening NATO tied to any fake news stories.
3. WaPo's valid points that cannot be dismissed and evidence to support your comment
Your first demand is to provide facts impossible to provide — from a virtually infinite universe of possibility sources show it was "from Russia and no one else." Demanding facts impossible to provide is more bullying than sharing. It certainly disallows refutation.
Your second demand for facts that Putin's intent to weaken NATO comes from "fake" news is equally impossible to meet. Since the whole point of differentiating "fake" news from "real" news is exactly the subject that generated this article and (so far) approaches a thousand comments, your crafty quibble distracts from a rather well-founded assumption that Putin wants to weaken NATO.
That assumption has little to with fake news, info news, propaganda or real news. I imagine that's your point. Blur, quibble, stretch, confuse, distract are tools for the propagandist rather than someone who wants to know the truth. When you make demands of someone not likely to challenge you is not my idea of honest engagement. Rather it sounds like someone seeking validation in a mirror.
Finally, your third demand seems the most reasonable — so reasonable that I wonder why you didn't just read her answer before you demanded it of her.
I have seen a huge efforts of propaganda for Trump from Russian media. All the news in Russia had some part of lie that was anti Clinton and pro Trump. … I have seen how all my friends in Russia and those who were listening the Russian news were brainwashed. Many news were false – about Clinton's illness for example. Obviously, Putin is interested in weakening NATO….
For a precognitive like yourself, I'm surprised you couldn't just read her answers before you question her like a lawyer with a weak case.
Eyewitness testimony counts as facts — even when you don't like those facts. Your cross examination without the witness present is simply grandstanding.
Russia (Putin) has a national interest in seeing Trump rather than Clinton as president.
Attacking those who say so makes you look weak and insecure.
"Your first demand is to provide facts impossible to provide — from a virtually infinite universe of possibility sources show it was "from Russia and no one else." Demanding facts impossible to provide is more bullying than sharing."
1. It's incumbent for those saying a story is "Russian Propaganda" to give facts to support that assertion. Since Ektarina can't provide them, perhaps you can? Either way, neither of you are willing or able to give any evidence. I'd admit, the story may in fact be false. But then again, any idiot can make sh*t up. It's not necessarily Russian. So, provide some evidence if you can. Otherwise, you're just spouting garbage.
2. "Your second demand for facts that Putin's intent to weaken NATO comes from "fake" news is equally impossible to meet."
Well, I'm sorry if the task seems difficult. But I wasn't the one who stated or implied Putin was creating fake stories to undermine Nato. Again, see point #1. Those who make unfounded assertions have the responsibility to provide evidence to support their assertions. I guess it's not beyond you to call 'asking simple questions' as 'quibble'.
"When you make demands of someone not likely to challenge you is not my idea of honest engagement."
How am I to know this exactly? I simply asked for evidence of the claims she was espousing. I guess asking questions or for evidence of wild assertions is your idea of not engaging in an honest discussion. Whatever.
Lastly, I asked her for which WaPo statements were valid points that cannot be dismissed. Again, such a simple question, yet neither of you can seem to answer it. Why is that? Is it really that hard to cut and paste from WaPo story and state the reasons why? It's such a simple task, one has to wonder why it cannot be done.
How is your block quote even related to the WaPo story? I'd call this a Red Herring.
So, you somewhat flirted with a 'bullying' comment close to Ad-Hominem. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You seem angry (as usual) but you did refrain from out-and-out name-calling. So, points on anger control.
But the prize goes to Red Herring. This is why it has the least odds. It was the argument most likely to happen from you. I probably should have given it 4:3 odds.
FYI, it's not preemptive refutation. It's simply an educated guess based on your past behavior.
Collaboration between the Trump campaign is so manifest, different aspects of it have been posted in numerous publications.
It's as simple as google.
Here, Russian trolls are even interviewed.
You want to deny this?
Your flailing attempts to circumscribe dispute — to dismiss, delegitimatize, and discredit something which is not even controversial is really sort of pathetic and as odious as the p.o.s. you're protecting.
"Your flailing attempts to circumscribe dispute — to dismiss, delegitimatize, and discredit something which is not even controversial is really sort of pathetic and as odious as the p.o.s. you're protecting"
lol…..I think you're under the impression that I'm a Trump supporter. Actually, I'm not.
Look, I don't deny fake stories exist. Yea, I know they do. I'd be willing to bet that some of these stories are in fact. Russian.
What I don't buy, is yours and Eketerina's blind faith in the PropOrNot site's baseless pointing the Red Finger at a vast number of sites without proof and hiding in the shadows like the cowards they are.
That's just plain stupid. And even after so many posts, my original three questions haven't been answered. Except you did admit that it was impossible to link the fake stories to Russia.
So, if that is true….if it really is impossible that you can't (in this universe) link the fake stories to Russia, how is PropOrNot identifying it so casually and why are you defending them?
FYI, here are my original 3 questions.
1. [Provide evidence that] Clinton illness storyline was from Russia and no one else.
2. [Prove that] Putins interest in weakening NATO [is] tied to any fake news stories.
3. WaPo's valid points that cannot be dismissed and evidence to support your comment [cut and paste and comment]
Maybe the Guardians of Trump will allow just a single link through.
We'll see.
Well, I'm sorry if the task seems difficult. But I wasn't the one who stated or implied Putin was creating fake stories to undermine Nato.
Let me clear up one of your many misconceptions. The fake news stories exist.
Proving the source is more of the problem, especially when the source wants to remain hidden.
As your glib Russian stooge pointed out during a debate, "It could be anybody."
Yes, it could be.
But we know it is the same Russia that feeds Wikileaks hacked documents because the collusion between the Trump campaign is well documented. Ask Paul Manafort or Mike Flynn. Or don't. They will no doubt pull the same "Huh?" schtick as you.
Your Nathan Thurm routine does get annoying.
are you being paid to write this stuff?
No, I believe there is enough Red-Baiting going with the site PropOrNot. So, I simply asked why Ekaterina was making such sweeping unfounded commentary.
After which, Milton jumped in. He's disgruntled about HRC losing (as many Americans are) and generally like to be confrontational with me given past conversations.
I would ask that you read the entire thread and see how evasive he is and tries to Proof-Shift to me. This is the strategy of many HRC and Trump supporters.
They make these outrageous claims with zero proof and when you ask them to provide proof, they simply try to put the burden of proof back you.
It's very deceptive. It's actually called Argument from Ignorance.
See here:
I was born in America and have many brainwashed friends here. PropOrNot has removed the veil from our eyes. A few more names for the list.
Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage and Glenn Beck have been expressing concerns over Ms Clintons' physical and mental health for more than decade. Now thanks to your incisive analysis its clear they are nothing more than Kremlin stooges after all.
The PropOrNot CHALLENGE: Find one (1) article by the Ron Paul Institute that is Russian propaganda.
Tsomv ? Chris Smith
November 26 2016, 12:26 p.m.
Please point to one article by the Ron Paul Institute that is Russian propaganda. Then go ahead and find one for '[e]very single one of the websites mentioned'.
? Reply
Christian C Holmer ? Tsomv
November 28 2016, 12:13 p.m.
A fair and reasonable test. One per site. Surely as pervasive as PropOrNot claims Russo Friendly articles are among those pub listed Tsomvs metric seems a fair starting point for determining the veracity of their assertions and the journalistic integrity of their MSM benefactor.
Ron Paul Institute seems to publish mostly original content of their own and contributors but many, many articles are sympathetic to Russian positions on Syria, Ukraine, and other issues which divide the US and Russia. For example, several reports advance denialism about Russian responsibility for MH17, something which any conscientious and fair-minded observer knows has not been subject to serious dispute since very shortly after the shootdown. Russia supplied the missile, probably with a Russian crew, and took back the launcher after the probably unintended shootdown of a civilian airliner. Russia's continuing coverup of this is criminal and its role was at a minimum irresponsible. RPI is apparently among those who continue to aid Russia's coverup by casting doubt on what has been well-established in the public record and promoting long-debunked conspiracy theories. I think RPI's involvement is reason enough to include them in the list of Russian propaganda mouthpieces, but their involvement is much broader than just MH17. By the way, they also support Trump.
Your argument amounts to "I don't agree with their opinions."
That does not equal Russian propaganda.
Ah,the hellbots surface,lying as usual.You have our definitive radar photos which we claim to have but haven't released?Another terrible warmongering attempt to start WW3,committed with the full support of the hell bitch and Obomba.
Na na na na,na na na na,hey hey hey,goodbye!To bad rubbish.
Oh to be in the dark with Mark…
Ron Paul's position is bring the troops home, avoid entangling alliances and meddling in the affairs of other nations, start holding the US government fiscally accountable beginning with auditing the Fed and DoD and (this is a big one for him Mark) defend the constitutional rights of US citizens.
Here's a trick question for Mark regarding intramural foreign policy debates.
If you were for the Surge in Iraq was it Russian PropOrNot?
I'm sure Ron Paul and I can agree on plenty of things. But anyone who continues to dispute Russian responsibility for MH17 is not someone whose judgment I would have any confidence in generally.
Great story today on an important subject. Congrats to Ben and Glenn. And the Intercept.
The entire ProporNot effort seems like crude, 60s era propaganda for the ill informed, i.e. anyone who actually reads/believes the Washington Post.
Well, the Big Lie technique never really went out of style, did it?
The WP article was not about the ProporNot website it was about how Putin influenced the election. Greenwald played a central role as Putin's willing tool.
Ok, I have a question–you state that RT is a propaganda site but in the next paragraph you claim that Yves Smith and Naked Capitalism is unfairly maligned and in support of that claim you point out that he/she has appeared on Bill Moyers show. If an appearance on that show is a reliable guide then wouldn't the fact that Yves Smith has appeared on RT (several times) arguably be deemed "useful" to their propaganda efforts? Even though I share your concerns re: the anonymous nature of ProporNot and the lack of information on their methodology, I think the WAPO article provides fodder for all of us to pause and give some serious thought to what we read and watch an whose interest is being served.
I think there's a fair and reasonable distinction to be drawn between 'propaganda' and 'fake' news.
It seems reasonable to expect a media organization called 'Russia Today' to have a decidedly Russian perspective. Nothing inherently nefarious about that, imo.
*Otoh, the credentials of 'Propaganda or Not' … are impossible to verify, as none is provided either by the Post or by the group itself. The Intercept contacted PropOrNot and asked numerous questions about its team, but received only this reply: "We're getting a lot of requests for comment and can get back to you today =) [smiley face emoticon]." The group added: "We're over 30 people, organized into teams, and we cannot confirm or deny anyone's involvement."
Why would you oppose an effort to reveal the true source of propaganda stories in our news?
"propaganda stories in our news"
Are you claiming that you work for or associated with PropOrNot?
Implying everything but establishment-approved 'news' is illegitimate or untrustworthy (which it seems is the goal of this project) is tantamount to brainwashing, and the First Amendment was created so that such tight message-control for the guardians of the status quo would be too difficult to accomplish effectively.
Maybe WP is making a move the World Weekly News' audience? Unsubstantiated stuff is not food for thought, whether it comes from Breitbart, Matt Drudge, The State Department, The FBI or The Washington Post, or Alex Jones.
Yes,why would any American oppose the effort to reveal the wizard behind the curtain,Zion.
All naked truth exposed daily by our zionist media,with their terrible anti American propaganda of divide and conquer,which has so many confused and fearful of the solution to our misery,nationalism,America first,and Donald Trump.
And the monsters are still at work,daily,with their poison pen and attempts to destroy our electoral integrity.
Israel is all to them,we are nothing but economic coffers to drain.
Washington Post = PRAVDA
More of the same. The mainstream media just does not get it.
Their credibility is shot and they refuse to set things right by doing actual unbiased investigations and research.
They continue to try to tell their dwindling audience that the reporters that got it right were wrong.
What's curious is that instead of exposing WAPO through publishing the donors of all the listed sites, there is a smear campaign which imitates the BS perpetrated by WAPO: unsubstantiated accusations. What it amounts to is deflecting accusation by calling the accuser a liar. In other words, instead of engaging McCarthyite allegations with journalistic work that exposes them for the lies that they are, we are given tweeter wars of innuendos.
Cowardly is not an adverb
According to every dictionary in Earth, it's an adverb.
Lot's of Cold War era COINTELPRO going here, and a fair amount of competitive capitalism in the name of democracy and journalism. I've been getting anonymous threats from these guys for years. Working on identifying at least two members of their team. For info, get in touch. Between a Rock and a Hard Place: Did 'Fake News' Elect Trump? http://www.newamericanjournal.net/2016/11/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place-did-fake-news-elect-trump/
This story is planned to run as the recount gets started in several states. I believe HRC's camp has manipulated the ballots in the weeks since the election and no one was watching. They tossed out Trump ballots, inserted Hillary ballots. Stein specifically called for the recount to be done by HAND. Why? Because they KNOW the count will come out different, in Hillary's favor. They will then say the reason is that the Russians hacked the machines or somehow fixed it so Trump would win. HRC is desperate with Sessions as incoming AG. No one will tell Sessions not to prosecute if he finds lawbreaking took place by HRC and her cohorts. She must be installed in the White House to keep power, to keep the donations coming in to the Clinton Foundation, to keep the truth hidden, and to avoid prosecution. If the only way to protect herself is to steal this election, she will go to any means to do so. I truly believe this. The Russians have had nothing to do with this election and Putin must be elated to be given so much credit.
And here I thought the "Russians did it" theory was tinfoil hat nonsense. The simplest possibility is usually the correct one, PCM: a group of liberal Anons from the depths of the #chans and Reddit decided they'd try to manipulate the media, and found an outlet desperate for a story to pander to their left-wing audience.
Clinton has nothing to do with it, and no one should be treating the recounts as anything more than a technicality.
Now Mike, you know calm level-headed thinking towards American politics just gets you on both side's blacklist.
'Hillary Clinton collapsed on 9/11 Day because she was poisoned by Putin.'
To be fair, the Russians may at some point have gifted her with a bottle of vodka which she downed for breakfast that day resulting in alcohol poisoning
"To be fair, the Russians may at some point have gifted her with a bottle of vodka which she downed for breakfast that day resulting in alcohol poisoning"
That sounds like depraved indifference to me. They should have known better.
Sounds like a Brock operation.
Yep, and it looks like their trolls are present, too. Not all that leftover Clinton election $ (especially the soft stuff) is going into her pocket, evidently…. In other (non) news, did anyone hear that IRAN pointed … something… at a NAVY HELO… in international waters. Holy f, batman, bomb them, like f-ing now!!! WAR, WAR, WAR!!! it's really great, you dummies just don't get it… listen to your MSM betters and let's get cracking on Iraq 2.0, Syria, Iran, or Libya version. https://www.c-span.org/video/?15026-1/eisenhower-farewell-address
"If you're even asking if Russia hacked the election, Russia got what it wanted"
Paul Musgrave, Washington Post, November 28 at 6:00 AM.
Doubling down.
The way the MSM as a whole has so precipitously become detached from reality and prone to such absurd conspiracy theories reminds me of a court room drama where the guilty sits on the stand an has an epic meltdown at the moment guilt is inexorably laid upon them, trying to pin the blame on anyone but them.
Well WaPo, and the rest of the MSM, we the jury find you guilty of promoting fascism, globalism, financial fraud and the terrorization of innocent human beings of foreign nations whose leaders refuse to do the bidding of your elite masters. The individual actors may never be dragged off in handcuffs as they so rightly deserve, but the corrupt empire is crumbling, and will come to an end one way or another. We owe this to alt media sites and vigilant REAL journalists who have stuck their neck out time and time again for the truth.
DISCLAIMER: I do not consider the election of Donald Trump as any marker of success in the progress towards ending corruption, it may very well have the opposite effect, just as electing Hillary Clinton would have.
Obama ran the country like it was a college classroom. You listened quietly and took notes in his classroom. The professor relied on positional authority, not facts, during his lectures. You could not question his wisdom. His wisdom was backed by consensus – which is defined as mere opinion – not science, truth, or facts. Once you left Lower Education, you discovered what you were taught by the professor was bull crap. Now you have to get a real job and move out of mom's basement. Welcome to the real world.
The move to label alternative news sources as "fake news" by the Post is an important milestone, as it indicates how the narratives put forth by establishment press of the seven conglomerates are losing credibility to the increasing audiences.
In my mind this would seem to occur when the ruling class starts losing control of people's sentiments. The election of Trump was a strong indicator of how a large segment of the population already ignores mainstream diatribes.
A logical extension of the this by a historical perspective will be a further move to totalitarianism, a grass roots revolution, or both.
Unfortunately this article is itself an empty attack piece, shrieking "McCarthyism!" and "blacklisting!" but failing to engage PropOrNot with anything approaching serious criticism.
PropOrNot lists sites that have run what they assess as "absurd pro-Russian propaganda" but don't deny that at least some of these sites also carry quality content. There are at least as many right-wing as left-wing sites on the list and many others are simply peddling paranoia, conspiracy theories, New Age snake oil and sundry fringe warez.
Sure, we know of many cases of the US government lying and planting false stories in news outlets, and propaganda is nothing new; what escapes me is how this is evidence against the existence of a massive Russian propaganda operation as alleged by PropOrNot.
Russia's propaganda network is just one aspect of a larger phenomenon we need to understand better. Shame for trying to shout down those who are exploring it and presenting their findings.
Do you have an example of a "fake news" article posted at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ you'd like to use for your backing of propornot's claim, or their "presenting of their findings," that Naked Capitalism has been posting Russian propaganda news?
Please note that PropOrNot lists "Sites That Reliably Echo Russian Propaganda" and not specifically "fake news" (i.e. fabricated stories dressed up as "news" content).
There are currently 222 stories Russia-related stories listed on nakedcap: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/category/russia
The first page of 15 includes these two:
I'll grant it's just a judgment call on my part that these pretty unambiguously represent (particularly odious) examples of either direct Russian propaganda or somebody echoing it. If you don't have the judgment to see that, I don't have time to argue with you. We're living in fast and dangerous times.
"I'll grant it's just a judgment call on my part" and "I don't have time to argue with you. We're living in fast and dangerous times"
Ahhhh, now I see your criteria. ANYTHING that mentions the word "Russia" is deemed 'odious' to you and it also seems that you don't have the time to read any of these articles and SOLELY rely on the use of the word, "Russia" to make your determination because as you state it, "We're living in fast and dangerous times"
Thanks for clearing up your ineptitude. I can see why when one lives in "Fast and Dangerous times" they should result in doing less work and doing it more quickly rather than doing it correctly.
Who cares about those pesky facts? Expect maybe Benito.
And apparently to you stories alleging that the reason for Syria's civil war is a Western plot to build a pipeline and that Russia is being framed for the MH17 shootdown are not examples of Russian propaganda. I can agree to disagree.
"stories alleging that the reason for Syria's civil war is a Western plot to build a pipeline and that Russia is being framed for the MH17 shootdown"
I don't need to prove this is NOT Russian propaganda. It's incumbent upon you to prove that it is. Same is true for PropOrNot.
The person making the claim also has the duty to provide evidence of their assertion. Without it, it's just an unproven assertion.
Your taking the position of guilt by accusation only. Is that really your position?
Here are two examples from the first batch of 15 of 222 Russia-related stories posted on nakedcap:
Two examples from the first 15 of 222 Russia-related stories on nakedcap:
Gaius Publius: Syria Is Another Pipeline War
John Helmer: Four MH17 Questions – The Answers to Which Prove the Dutch Police, Ukrainian Secret Service, and US Government Are Faking the Evidence of the MH17 Shootdown
Also please note that PropOrNot lists "Sites That Reliably Echo Russian Propaganda" rather than "fake news" which is a more specific category of falsifications dressed up as news content.
LOL. You really should try reading the article. The Intercept attempted to contact PropOrNot, and received a smiley face as a response.
I'm not sure you get it. A bunch of anonymous Twitter trolls are not a legitimate organization one needs to pay attention to.
what escapes me is how this is evidence against the existence of a massive Russian propaganda operation as alleged by PropOrNot.
You don't understand how burden of proof works.
"what escapes me is how this is evidence against the existence of a massive Russian propaganda operation as alleged by PropOrNot"
Generally speaking, people prove the existence of something, not the reverse as you indicate here.
The burden of proof isn't for the Intercept and other new agencies to prove there ISN'T Russian propaganda. The burden is upon PropOrNot to prove there IS and that they are credible judges to make these conclusions.
PropOrNot have not done the following:
1. Identified themselves
2. Stated why any of their example are 'proof' of Russian intervention
3. Stated their credentials and other qualifications that renders them with being the authoritative experts to make such pronouncements
4. Given reasons as to why, if only 1 or 2 examples are found, justify labeling an entire site as "Useful Idiots".
5. Their criteria for making such assessments
6. Their quality control process by which false positives are not produced or corrected
7. Any statement of principles or concepts for labeling organizations or how they conduct themselves.
With the exception of #1, this is a pretty good synopsis of the entire Trump campaign.
It wasn't the Trump campaign that went around calling people Useful Idiots and Red Baiting.
It was HRC. Show some examples of how Trump was Red Baiting? I'm curious.
Red Baiting.
What is "Red Baiting"? Using a red fishing lure? Fishing for red snapper? Waving a red cape at a bull? Convincing a green light to turn red?
Language should be used to communicatewith others rather than to propagandize to others.
Do you see the difference between actively seeking understanding and imposing your understanding on others?
I don't know what you mean by "Red Baiting" but I think proposing a ban on Muslims constitutes something similar to what I think you might mean — that is, advancing a political agenda by opposing a popular anathema.
Or are you confusing Russia with a bunch of Commies?
The Soviet Union (the Commies) vanished over a quarter of a century ago.
As I argue in another nearby post, radical Islam is the new communism.
So please, at least for the sake of clarity, define "red baiting."
verb (used without object)
1. to denounce or deprecate as a political radical, especially to accuse of being communist.
Although, I do enjoy red snapper on occasion, this wasn't meant to be a fishing term. Surprised by your admittance as Greenwald and other TI writers use this term as well as some commenters. But now worries.
I would admit many of Trump's claims were outlandish to say the least, but he didn't accuse anyone of being a communist or spreading communist propaganda. That was purely DNC tactics.
Here is a Greenwald article on Red Baiting and the DNC history you might find interesting.
Hes a lying propagandist,who disappeared years ago from GG,and now like an O'Henry,bobs back to the surface..He's worse now that ever.In the old days a few words spewed were true,now it is down to 0.
His blog probably collapsed.
I'll take the time to ask; What are you babbling about?
Babbling?Just saying,as with Craig Summers and Gator 90,he is a zioliar with nothing credible to add.
Sorry for the heads up,go back to your arguments,you'll find it fruitless.But have a nice time.
All that to say :"I want to believe it"about Russia.
Another disbarred lawyer.
Who wants to bet, that the socialist and convicted criminal George Soros is behind and funds the website ??
Glenn, call it what it is: WaPo is, has been, and will always be a vehicle for CIA et al disinformation a la 'Operation Mockingbird'. When I first saw this article, it was a LMAO moment! Bezos and his 'tribe' are certifiable nut-jobs who think they are still writing and publishing for 5th graders, low IQ 5th graders! If you are going to waste your time on this bloviation, please take off the gloves. I don't have the resources to do such, but you do.
The United States of America is allegedly a 'democratic republic'. Unfortunately, its government in Washington has become a well-oiled Fascist entity. Bezos and his 'tribe' are de facto traitors to what's left of our constitution.
Garbage article. Russians have no interest getting involved with anything we do. They don't need to, everything we touch is flawed. We blamed the JFK murder on Russia. 9/11 was in-house job and they know, same with the moon landing. The USA spends millions of dollars getting involved in other countries' such election, that is whtpy we have bases in most of the countries around the globe. As the president of Oeru said, he wants us out?
The big difference between this group and McCarthy, is we now have verifiable proof (Venona Project) that McCarthy was not only correct in his claims about paid Soviet agents actively working in our own government, but rather McCarthy under estimated the extent to which paid Soviet agents had infiltrated our government.
This group is just full of sh!t, and trying to disrupt Trump's ability to govern.
Bears repeating:
"As is so often the case, those who mostly loudly warn of 'fake news' from others are themselves the most aggressive disseminators of it.
Indeed, what happened here [The Post story] is the essence of fake news."
Make America Fake Free again. *h/t TheRealDonaldTrump
…That is the essence of how fake news functions, and it is the ultimate irony that this Post story ended up illustrating and spreading far more fake news than it exposed.
*note. Propaganda (or not) and 'fake' news seems a bit of a mixed metaphor, Glenn. The nature of 'fake' news is dishonesty. Propaganda, absent 'lying by omission', is merely … "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view"
Interesting but which of hellary's 2 faces would be reported as being propaganda and which as fake, dishonest?
As a fine feathered fascist once pointed out here "Mrs. Clinton has public and private opinions" … and I can't afford her private ones./
*iow, I have insufficient data to properly answer your query, but I'm confident The Electoral college has spoken (if not the people) … and will soon be another subsidiary of Trump University.
Has anyone considered the possibility that the 'people' behind this could be Russia. If Russia wanted to destabilize the US, the types of tactics are very affective.
Operation Mockingbird continues ,the CIA depended on NYTimes and WaPo misinformation and disinformation since the 50's they depend on each other !!!
Glenn et al., this is why I have The Intercept bookmarked. Please don't ever stop. Your work is so vital now that it is clear the majority of the MSM are just hacks and propagandists for those with dangerous agendas.
Sounds like propornot is the WAPO's new alt-left alter ego…..
Good grief, PON are TROLLS! How much more obvious could it be?
Laugh at the WP's hierarchy for the rest of the year for the way they've displayed all the percipience and ethics of a dead rat.
But turn off the self-righteous dudgeon first, it's embarrassing.
It's the Washing Post, for Pete's sake! Not even fit to line a bird cage with!!!
It's called the Supreme Court, and that will be that! This is all pure bull!
Glenn's disclosure of ongoing incompetent journalism and fake news is sorely needed
and, as always, is very thorough about it. It's unfortunate that he has to deal with all this nonsense
addition to other issues of greater concern that take time and effort to address.
Anyway, if there is anyone who can disclose the lies with the attention it deserves, it's Glenn
and his colleagues at the Intercept.
That….is a printed ass whooping.
Wnt ? Si1ver1ock
November 27 2016, 1:48 p.m.
Regarding an earlier post by Silverlock about a short TedX Talk by Sharyl Attkisson titled (on youtube) "Former CBS Reporter Exposes Media Lies, Internet Shills & Astroturfing"
Wnt responded:
"I don't trust this woman……She also raised a red flag with an apparent positive mention of a vaccine-autism link, which is bullshit that has traditionally been paid for. I'm suspicious her Redskins example was also sponsored. That's not to say that commercial interests *don't* have a sneaky, highly unwelcome footprint on Wikipedia, but their influence is not unlimited.".
You have got things a bit backwards if you are claiming it is the vaccine opponents who are being paid to criticize the vaccine manufacturers. And your saying the argument by the vaccine critics is "bullshit" is exactly what this Sharyl Attkisson was deriding in the TedX Talk, how labeling something a 'myth' (or 'bullshit') has the effect, in the uncritical mind, of shutting down any discussion of the actual facts. Moreover, the vaccine proponents use all the dirty, lying tricks of Big Pharma—paid shills, donations to medical schools & research centers, hyperbolic advertising, scam articles, falsified testing, and censorship within Wikipedia entries.
The vaccine industry is worth many billions of dollars per year and they spend millions scaring people into getting ever more vaccines.
"We see how questions of medical importance that are nitpicked to death on points of scientific purity can cost a lot of lives—millions of lives. There are more than one million children and adults with autism and the numbers continue to grow. This is a medical disaster of monumental proportions. The link to the vaccine program is scientifically and logically compelling but these same medical elitists refuse to listen.
"Like smoking and lung cancer, we have enough proof today to call a halt to the present excessive vaccine program and ban any level of mercury in vaccines. In 1983, before the autism epidemic began, children received 10 vaccinations before attending school and the autism incidence was 1 in 10,000. Today children receive 23 vaccines before age 2 years and 36 by the time they attend school; the autism rate is now 1 in 150 births. Medical "experts" have provided no other explanation for this dramatic and sudden rise in autism cases, despite a draconian effort to find one".
Excerpted from "Vaccines, Neurodevelopment, and Autism Spectrum Disorders" – Russell L. Blaylock, MD, neurosurgeon. (Note: this article was written in 2012. Centers for Disease Control—CDC–now says Autism Spectrum Disorder rates are 1 out of 68)
i suspect that vaccines containing mercury have some electrical conductive potential more than any non-metal solution. Salts will conduct but salts only are ionic, temporary and subject to dilution. Mercury is not. Mercury binds. We are dealing with microelectronics here and the non-imaginative pathways that hardwire early. Autisim is the result of an electrical pathway or co-ordination center that either doesnt exist or fails to develop – a lack of communication between i think creative and memory process which prevents a virtual mapping of self with other objects – following the boot mapping of ones own body, the virtual map comes next and with autism, that doesnt happen. My suspicion is that the process is SHORT CIRCUITED by the mercury.
Mercury, as a cellular toxin, is only one of the reason vaccines are harmful and many of the subcellular ways mercury acts as a toxin are known. But as neuroscientists have pointed out, giving too many–and sometimes just one!–vaccine(s) will cause harm through the process of excitotoxicity that does not have to involve mercury. "Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged or killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances." (Wikipedia) (Note: the vaccine excites those transmitters to release glutamate).
Also, 75% of the immune tissue of the body is found in the gut, and this is where most pathogens are processed so they can be fought or neutralized. Injecting vaccines directly into bodies, bypassing the gut, can be problematic because the GALT (Gut Associated Lymphoid Tissue) does not have a full chance to deal with the antigens being injected.
Even though mercury, added to some vaccines, is one of the most toxic substances known, it nevertheless just adds insult to injury in the overall harm caused by (over) vaccination.
Bacterial vaccines are grown in petri dishes, but viral vaccines require a 'live host'—which can be a monkey kidney. At conferences of vaccine scientists, behind closed doors, away from the media –(researchers will lose their jobs if their words leak out to the public), researchers admit that many, often hundreds, of different pathogens are found growing on the kidney(s) they use to get the one that goes into what is injected into your arm. And they also admit that they cannot purify out all the other pathogens growing there, which means you aren't simply getting injected with whatever you are told you are being injected with.
But, just as this Glenn Greenwald article plus comments points out, it won't be easy hearing about any of this, thanks to those very corporate 'spin doctors' who are paid millions to debunk any info that may leak out to the public which threatens those corporations and government interests. Note they employ the same scare tactics as "the Russsians/ISIS/Vietcong are coming!"—when they constantly bombard people with scare stories about needing to be vaccinated. "The virus is coming!"
Billions of people on the planet, all of whom they would like to sell 30, 40, 50 or more vaccines to before they even start school, and even more during the rest of their lifetime…this is what makes executives of Big Pharma salivate when they wake up every morning.
There is an explosion of neurodegenerative disorders now—autism, dementia, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, learning and mood disorders. And there are many 'players' as to causes including pesticides; heavy metals; PFCs in fish; vaccines; food colorings; hormones and psych meds which are excreted and then flushed down toilets and which are too small to be filtered out by municipal water systems before it reaches your house. Another player is MSG, Mono Sodium Glutamate, that is allowed by the FDA to be hidden on labels under words such as 'flavors', 'natural flavors', 'textured vegetable protein', 'autolyzed yeast', 'hydrolyzed protein', 'soy protein extract/concentrate', 'seasonings', 'broth', etc. Note the word 'glutamate' in MSG—glutamate is the very thing the body uses as the main excitatory neurotransmitter which we need for life, but too much of which is deadly.
"Glutamate is the main excitatory neurotransmitter in the CNS (central nervous system). Although glutamate receptor stimulation is necessary for normal brain activity, excessive glutamate receptor activation can produce convulsions, neuronal damage, and death… The excitatory amino acid receptor system is the most complex of all neurotransmitter systems. This complexity is necessary for protection against the devastating effects of uncontrolled excitatory neurotransmission. At present, 11 different glutatmate receptors are recognized" ('Goldfrank's 'Manual of Toxicologic Emergencies' pg 129, 2007 ed.)
Why is so much MSG hidden in foods? Because it acts as a 'flavor enhancer'. It makes a soup made with three chickens taste like one made with ten. It makes a protein bar made with soy beans (yecchhh) taste yummy. It makes the bulk powder sold in Whole Foods as 'Vegetarian Chicken Broth" (autolyzed yeast) taste oh so good, so much so that pregnant women buy it by the sack full and eat it thereby bathing developing fetal brains with glutamate. But glutamate doesn't only 'enhance flavors'. It also excites a major part of the appetite control center (Arcuate nucleus located in the hypothalamus) to tell you that "you're not full yet! Eat more! Eat more! Eat more!"
When brains exposed to too much glutamate are analyzed, lesions (cuts) are found on the Arcuate nucleus where the neurons have died from excitotoxicity. "The arcuate nucleus provides many physiological roles involved in feeding, metabolism, fertility, and cardiovascular regulation." (Wikipedia)
MSG is very good for stock prices of food companies, but since "excessive glutamate receptor activation can produce convulsions, neuronal damage, and death"—it is not so good for people, especially when added to all the other toxic insults already mentioned.
But these things aren't being discussed much at all now, mainly because of the relentless spin doctors' with their tentacles into most media including, of course, the Washington Post.
There are 20 amino acids in protein. One is glutamic acid, which when neutralized by base (as in the intestine) is called glutamate. Eating protein causes it to be split up into its component amino acids.
Now biology isn't *quite* that simple, and I won't guarantee it has totally zero effect (actually, I've noticed eating it somehow gives me little headaches that affect one spot on my scalp) but still, glutamate is a reasonable component of food, present in any predigested food at some level. Skepticism is a double edged sword, and we must swing it at believer and skeptic alike.
"McCarthyite"…? The difference being that McCarthy was CORRECT in citing communist influence in America. Today's allegations of "Russian propaganda" in the 2016 election are nothing but a desperate grabbing-at-straws on the part of America's socialist minority.
Does anyone believe anything they read in main stream newspapers anymore? After this election and everything that came out about news media colluding with candidates to spin webs of deceit and lies, I think I'm done with the news. I'll find some alt news site that's looking for a few new readers and go there. Tired of all the propaganda and BS that permeates cable news shows and the old, hack journalism that's taken over once great newspapers that used to inform readers instead of trying to convince them who to vote for…
It was a list of 'news' sites publishing Russian propaganda masquerading as news. Just because a liberal/left news site publish some good articles does not mean everything they write is trustworthy. One needs to identify their bias and then discount it. For example Naked Capitalism's Yves Smith knows a lot about Wall Street and finance. Her expertise. I trust her on that. I do not trust her article on Fukushima from March 2016. She knows sweet FA about electricity, nuclear power, real versus imaginary dangers of radiation, etc. Russia has been feeding anti-fracking, anti-nuclear power, anti-energy articles to Western media. Sputnik and RT are full of such junk. About how Western energy systems are bad, doomed and should shut, or never start. Presumably so we can be dependent on Russian energy. It's obviously an organized, planned strategy. The green/left (are they the same thing now?) media is full of such junk telling us how we can close down fossil fuel and nuclear power. Live off "free" wind, sun and renewables. Clinton pledged to erect 500 million solar panels. Green billionaire hedge fund owner Tom Steyer spent 74 million helping Clinton's campaign based on that promise. Are Clinton or Trump Russian stooges? No. Just because the Democrats have bought into the modern anti-electricity, Luddite, craze, is no reason to think they are Russian stooges. The money trail leads back to a 'green', hedggie, not a Russian plutocrat. Two people who, coincidentally, share a common interest.
It's easy for Russia to place pseudo-news at places like Naked Capitalism. All they need do it identify NC bias and feed it.
Wallstreet is run by criminals.
The wallstreet criminals provide financial support for their hellarious whores to run for political offices so they can subjugate the US to the TPP and rob not just Americans, but whoever is fool enough to obey the TPP criminals.
Thank God for the Off Broadway media!!
Joe Scarborough explains how the media got the 2016 election all wrong:
The great hypocrisy in this entire Fake News hysteria is that the Anglo-American media is the greatest peddler of propaganda on the planet and is the most successful, as it has a global level of influence and prestige that Russian media cannot match.
For instance, the Anglo American media were the ones leading the propaganda barrage about Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction in the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, which turned out to be a complete fraud.
These Anglo media lies were used to justify an Anglo-American war of aggression against Iraqi that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, displaced and maimed hundreds of thousands of more people, and has led to the broader destabilization of the Middle East and increase in Islamic jihadism spreading into Syria today.
You have America, its allies, and their precious "free press" to thank for this crime against humanity.
So, these nations led by the USA need to swallow a big cup of STFU about their "fake news" hissy fit.
Does anyone else smell David Brock?
I mean, he's running 14 money-laundering… er.. non-profits out of the same office.. what's another one?
Also, some vetting process they have, huh? They went from what? 40-some sites to 200 in what? a day?
that's not money laundering.
in a form vs substance charge it might, might be called skimming.
however i do believe it is a common technique to raise money while at the same time maintaining the appearance of doing it for nothing which is quite difficult.
Great reportage, Glenn and Ben.
I filed my complaint, already, but I had to read this again.
You kicked up quite a sand (or browner) storm.
Thank you.
Sandstorm;Australia had a ryestorm,where particles of rye seed were inhaled by thousands,and 8 people died of asthma like symptoms,and hundreds?hospitalized.
This Yankee will stay home.
The name of this blatantly absurd site actually reads 'pro porn ot (out there) service'; quite the joke on all sorts of folks. Yes, dance around the middle finger.
That article achieves the following:
1. It tars several respected left leaning online publications, and casts doubt about their legitimacy.
2.It launches it's attack from a seemingly pro Hillary angle, thus making it seem like either she or political agents acting on her behalf are trying to push a narrative of the election being stolen. This does NOT reflect well on Clinton. It makes her look petty and manipulative, despite the FACT that not one of the sources is shown to be connected to her or anyone legitimately supporting her.
3. It creates confusion and doubt:
"Well, how can we believe that the election was tampered with if the evidence put forth is by such a shady source?"
This has the effect of placing doubt in the publics' minds as to whether or not the election was tampered with. By attaching respected left leaning sites to the "Russia manipulated our election" claim, the Washington Post and the "source" of the information make it seem like the respected sites are in bed with Putin, which does nothing to either further or derail the conspiracy, but rather just weakens the accused publications.
What it does NOT do is the following:
1. It does not strengthen the "Putin manipulated the election" claims with any solid evidence. If the point was to further that claim, then the article would not have been so easily eviscerated.
2. It does not help Clinton, either with the recount nor with her PR. It makes it look like she is trying to manipulate public opinion both in how she is viewed and by how those sites are viewed.
3. It does NOT hurt Russia or anyone acting on her behalf in any way. This is very important. Russia, with the election of Donald Trump is already protected and safe from any of the "plans" that the source in this article wants to enact. This is the equivalent of tossing a hand grenade at a 4″ steel door and claiming that it's meant to knock down the door. It's pretty obvious if you stand back and observe the damage afterwards that the intended target was not the door, but those standing next to it and clamoring to tear it down… The American left, Hillary Clinton and her allies.
4. The token right wing publication in that article is part of the impenetrable steel door. The Drudge Report dwells in the same sewer which houses Breitbart, Inforwars and other far right lunatic asylums. A story like this does NOT hurt them. In fact it may actually increase their circulation. The only ones hurt by something like this are respected publications which reside on the left side of the political spectrum.
In essence, this hit piece was nothing more than an attempt to weaken the left.
1. Left? Clinton? Please. Clinton is center-right with a very thin sjw veneer. There is no American left.
2. If you honestly believe that Putin or Russia had anything to do with tampering with this election, or that Putin has 'Soviet designs', you need to learn how to use a map. Get a map. Look at where US and NATO forces are
(Don't forget ISIS and AlQueda in Syria, or the Azov battalion in Ukraine). Look at where Russia is. Understand that Washington is the aggressor here.
3. If you're still hiding under your bed b/c of Putin: Turn in any firearms or kitchen knives that you have, give your car keys to a responsible adult, and GET HELP IMMEDIATELY!
How to identify a troll:
1. First decipher the literal argument.
US and Nato threaten Russia.
Therefore Putin has nothing to do with "tampering with this election."
(Comment: Putin has every incentive in the world to tamper in the US election if the first premise is true — particularly if one pays attention to Russian history.)
2. Then deliver the insults:
You're ignorant. ("learn how to use a map")
You're cowardly. ("still hiding under your bed b/c of Putin')
You're crazy, ("GET HELP IMMEDIATELY!")
Na Zdorovie!
How to identify a troll;Well with you,its milton wiltmellow,easily identified as a no class lying troll.
You have a long history of short, completely idiotic posts, dahoit. You hate Israel. OK. Let's move on.
See,this is the problem with you nuts,I hate no one.
I just hate that American policy is zionist directed,and why I voted and was pro Trump,as America first will end that stupidity of doing things for a foreign nation that hurts our own.
Israel will rise or fall on its own agenda,not mine,isn't that normal?
hellaryous! nice hit. it's a triple.
left leaning? wapo left leaning?
How left is wallstreet?
According to you, the hellary-supported-wallstreet-thieves who vandalise rob and sell out Americans and mainstreet to TPP predators are the very left demarcation?
Re-calibrate your compass.
WaPo lost all credibility with me during the Dem primary. Anyone attacking wikileaks has no credibility with me. Kick their bu++s Glen..
Good interview Spike Lee did with Sen. Bernie Sanders.
I like Sen. Sanders policies, and his rhetoric. If we don't, as liberals/leftists/progressives, learn to communicate with our fellow Americans without writing all of them off as racists or misogynists because they voted for Trump, then we on the left are in serious trouble electorally for a long time.
Seems to me we can both resist and push back against racism/sexism et al, while still trying to form bridges and engage in meaningful dialogue with our fellow citizens (and must) who aren't the relatively small portion of the American populace that is "hard core" or "ideologically driven" racists/sexists et al.
I just don't see we have much other choice, or that running around calling everyone Trump decides to appoint as an advisor is a racist Islamophobic scumbag (from Guiliani to Bannon to Sessions to whomever).
Or the "left" can going around doing that for the next 4 to 8 years and see how that works out for them. Seems to me they've been doing that for decades and hasn't really worked out too well for them or those groups of Americans they claim to care about.
Back to – or resorting to the messaging meme is not the answer. The Republicans tried that after losing two recent elections. "We have a great message. We have great ideas. The American people love our small government, no regs, no taxes, christian values. We just have to learn to communicate better."
I can accept the results, because my candidate did not run. I can deplore and bemoan what has happened to our country and become active. I cannot, however, accept further idiocy, lies, and the constant crap from people who have exhibited no self-reflection or the desire to grow through knowledge. This seems to be far too many public people. I love talking to people of diverse backgrounds, cultures, languages, beliefs, and geographic locations. I do it five days a week. I have nearly a zero tolerance for stupidity..
The Dems need a brain transplant first, then the heart.
Take it from me, from a long line of Democrats who thinks I can vote for a stand-up Dem but who will never wear the label or support the party until it becomes more progressive. Neoliberalism, corporate welfare, drones, senseless "cheap" wars, the management class, entrepreneurs (they are abundant, like weeds, aren't they?), catering to banks, multinationals. This is what they have been doing for around four decades. Nobody's responsible – no bankers jailed, no "decision makers" punished for torture – just Private Lynndie England (and that other soldier). They kicked unions. They ignored most people but the class to which they belong. Edward Snowden exiled, Julian Assange exiled, Chelsea Manning jailed, whistleblowers jailed, a trillion-dollar nuclear modernization program. I could, but I cannot go on.
"…what these virtue-consumers are doing is purchasing liberalism offsets." ( Further explained by Mr Frank as "an ideological version of the carbon offsets that are sometimes bought by polluters in order to compensate for the smog they churn out.") Thomas Frank – Listen, Liberal.
I'm not disagreeing with you–that's why I said I like both Bernie Sanders policies and rhetoric.
In other words, he is doing both correctly, and how all Dems should do it. I have zero faith that the Chuck Schumer part of the Democratic Party will learn any lessons from this election, nor will what is left of the Democratic Party except members of the "progressive caucus".
The Democratic party "establishment" can get on board with a new direction, or they won't. And maybe some of them will keep their jobs until they choose to retire. But until there are wholesale changes to the Democratic party "platform" and rhetoric, and they can actually deliver on their "platform" then they are toast for at least 20 years.
Chris Matthews schooled Rachel Maddow on election night as to why Trump legitimately was about to win the election:
One of the websites listed by "PropOrNot" responds……
Washington Post's 'Fake News' Guilt
November 27, 2016
Propornot sound like a bunch of foul-mouthed college kids.
Wondering how many sheeple installed the plugin, lol. Sounds like something straight from the 1984.
…someone needs to remind them that peace is actually war, and that freedom is certainly slavery. Much easier than actually thinking….
The so-called MSM is now little more than Pravda West. The NYT and the major networks should simply adopt the slogan "All the News That's Fit to Slant." Virtually 100% of all MSM reporters and talking heads are registered Democrats or laughingly call themselves "independents." LOL, they're about as independent as pack of baying coyotes.
I'm actually thankful to the creators of PropOrNot – it provides an up to date list of alternative media sources, something I've been looking for for ages.
BTW Glenn, I'm not sure I agree with you about RT being a Russian propaganda site. Yes, it gives a Russian perspective on some things, but they make that perfectly clear to their viewers. From what I've seen on RT, they cover stories overlooked by the MSM, and question narratives pushed by Western media. While there's certainly stories that could be classed as propaganda, I'd say the same thing about the BBC, NBC, Fox News, The Guardian, WP etc etc etc. I believe it's healthy to hear the Russian side of things.
I wonder how many people who reflexively call RT and Sputnik propaganda have actually read a single article on their sites.
The sites they list are definitely some of the worst (veterans today is laughable!), and you'd really need to be a special kind of stupid to believe what those "journalists" report. I could add a few dozen to the list, however I cannot confirm or deny they're Russian in origin, though it wouldn't be a shock.
Thank you for your blind obedience comrade Jaruzelski. Those shipyard workers are in for a surprise.
Does anyone else think that David Brock's #HillTroll army just found a slightly different niche since their old one went up in flames on 11-8?
The primary objective of WAPPO is to be the "state media" dominant force by inaugurating censorship into the US just as any predatory dictatorial 3rd world piece of shit would condemn upon the people that it abuses, not serves.
They just want their whores in congress to "make some rules" against freedom of speech and tie it to yelling fire in a theatre. From there they will want to establish a committee that reviews speech during election time which will go from days to weeks to months to office holders to years. Then they will want to establish a "publishers license" thing etc etc etc. This is the slippery slope of an abuser's delight. From there it goes to criminal charges against persons contributing support for websites that exaggerate or opinionate and would seek to shut down sites like this.
Give me liberty or, because when you do not have liberty, you are effectively dead.
3rd World USA
Excellent article! Keep up the good work guys…
So was it fake news when the Guardian reported that Hillary's chief of staff John Podesta has a child porn screening room/dungeon built into his house?
"They are known for purchasing "awkward" works, such as video
installations, that many other private collectors will not consider.
"It's easy to store them, but difficult to display them," says Podesta.
To get round the problem, he and his wife have excavated a huge
subterranean vault beneath their house outside Washington – a white
space 5m square and 4m high in which it will be possible to show "very
complicated video pieces" on all four walls."
Yes, it is fake.
The Guardian article reports Podesta and his wife collect video art. That's it. Nothing about child porn at all. You, joe, baselessly and perversely insinuate child pornography. What is wrong with you?
I had this thought all morning, so I had to come back with this post script.
First thing in the morning, I had on Washington Journal like I always do. After its conclusion, I went up the dial to CNN, FOX, and MSNBC.
The crawl read something about a Trump tweet. After he found out the President and coalition forces had launched around 16,000 airstrikes, he took credit. I saw it on two of the three channels, but nobody said a word about it and nobody called it a lie. This idiot keeps taking credit for things he hasn't done.
I cannot post a link – I searched vigorously (but I don't use G 00gle) and could not find the tweet anywhere, but I know I saw it on the bottom of the screen this morning.
Maybe somebody complained and it was taken down.
He could be trying to erase Barack Obama or just doing what it is that he does, without a filter, a thought, or a care. Don't know if it was with exclamation point!
WTF? The media is just giving up?
Bullshit. I don't know why the left sees lying as such a necessary part of their existence, but it certainly defines them.
WTF? The media is just giving up?
Not at all … and despite this load of crap article passing as "journalism," I suspect many, many Americans have responded and will respond to this coup.
Masks are common during revolutions.
Nobody is sure how it ends but to suggest this is some sort of McCarthite blacklisting is just plain stupid. 17 US intelligence agencies presented their findings. (google it) That's not McCarthism. That' s intelligence agencies doing what they're paid to do.
They're paid to inform the decision makers.
"Masks are common during revolutions."
So are clowns. what's your point?
So are clowns. [common during revolutions}
Maybe you could provide an example. Boris Yeltsin standing atop a tank? No facepaint, no red bulbous nose (yet), no garish costumes, no seltzer bottle … nope. None of that during the failed August Putsch.
(Perhaps some of our commenters with more knowledge of Russia can inform me of the clowns parading through the Moscow White House. Nyet? ??? ???????? ????????.)
Meanwhile, with a few exceptions, everyone commenting here wears a mask — including me. Including you. Duh.
There is no grand theme of a Communist takeover of the United States (a staple of right-wingers and Birchers since 1917). Nobody is using the Senate to denounce reporters nor circulating secret lists of reporters not loyal to the United States. The A Bomb hasn't been stolen, movies don't refer to the Red Menace, and anti-communist newsreels don't fit between advertisements for popcorn and advertisements for Coca Cola.
But Glenn drags out this "McCarthyite" like Granny Smith dragging out her old flapper dress from a trunk in the attic (or maybe Granny Smith's granddaughter dragging out her love beads and Jimi Hendrix poster from a trunk in the attic.)
What's going on is quite remarkable. And if I were employed by Fox News or the CIA or the NYTimes, I would hide my involvement too. Not as an intimidation technique but to keep my job in case this moron backed by the Russian actually gets inaugurated.
That is my point, since you ask.
Masks are common during coup attempts (besides for tear gas.)
Clowns are not so common.
Next time think a bit before you post.
"And if I were employed by Fox News or the CIA or the NYTimes, I would hide my involvement too. "
"Clowns are not so common."
Well, you are a rarity but, all one has to do is look at the more than a dozen GOP candidates in the clown-car of an election. They knew Hillary was the bankers pick and they put on a show for America. The trouble is a fucking megalomaniac was on the bill too.
There's always one more clown coming out of that car no matter how small it is.
I feel like I am the only one complaining. I know I am not.
I allow you the rant at TI, but you answered me also, so I will respond.
The media is not doing itself any favors. Last Wednesday, PBS Newshour reported on Betsy DeVos and had a guest tells us about our new Ed Secretary-designate. They merely called her An Advocate.
The Dems did not reflect, the Repubs did not reflect, perhaps Les Moonves laughed his way out of it, but I don't think so. The media certainly has not reflected. Check out Sen Sanders sit down with the Christian Science Monitor. Some USA Today "reporter" asked him what he thought about Cory Booker in 2020. Bernie gave him exactly the kind of answer I would have given him, had I been asked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwn7Kko8ERo
Having read Tim Weiner's book on the history of the FBI in the past twelve months, and his book on the CIA, plus others in that vein and far from it, let me give you my perspective.
I read The Devil's Chessboard (David Talbot) and just finished The Brothers, by Stephen Kinzer. We have been using the threat of the Soviet Union and the threat of Communism since the early 20s for the purpose of fear. For control. For defense. For weapons or contractors. For more defense financing. More fear. More war. More fear, more coups. This was one of the most fear-driven elections of my lifetime. Mr. Obama was no help. Trump on RT with Larry King?
All of the agencies swear a threat is real. Nobody knows differently. The heads of agencies lie or are lied to. At some point Congress decides to investigate abuses by the IC. Then along comes the Church committee. More time passes. Forward to the recent post -2000 unclassified CIA documents. More revelations about abuses. It wasn't that long ago, was it?
Arthur Hays Sulzberger was a particular friend of the CIA/State Dep't machinations. James Reston was a critical voice, but he was also a friend of Allen Dulles. These storied and prize-winning journalists were willing to spread propaganda here and abroad.
Read about the Dulles brothers. Allen ran the CIA 1953 – 61. He ran with Wild Bill before OSS was formed. Foster ran State 1953 – 59. First Foster, but they were both lawyers at Sullivan & Cromwell. Their clients were companies such as United Fruit.
You want to see two people wreak havoc on the world, read about these two particularly devious, power-hungry, adrenaline junkies (Allen) and his annoying pious brother (Foster) – greedy, twisted, sick f**king bastards who were responsible for the death and destruction of millions all over the globe.
Kinzer's book is particularly poignant in the last chapter. He claims that the Dulles Bros were able to do what they did because they were uniquely American. They are us and we are them. We are exceptionally – what? He points out how Shane and High Noon captured the American ethos. My two cents – people admired cowards (I mean cowboys) like John Wayne. I reject that take on exceptionalism with every fiber of my body. I haven't been this repulsed since I read a bio on Donald Rumsfeld, a particularly odious man. I read, I listen, I watch, and I observe. In some areas, I know better. Most people do not. Clear as day – as glass – as clean water – is that our foreign policy hasn't really changed. Of course it hasn't – we are still exceptional douches, with the same exceptional ethos.
Clear as day – as glass – as clean water – is that our foreign policy hasn't really changed. Of course it hasn't – we are still exceptional douches, with the same exceptional ethos.
In his farewell speech in 1959, Eisenhower warned of the growing power of the Military-Industrial Complex which I'm sure you've run across in your reading. Little has changed except that its power and influence has grown exponentially beyond all control and oversight. (I call it the MIS Complex to include "security" agencies like NSA, CIA, and others not so public.)
But yes, huge douches — responsible for killing millions in Southeast Asia and overseeing regime "adjustments" favorable to the US in Iran, Chile, Malaysia … and just about everywhere else in the world. Literally countless victims.
These were all justified and classified as an anti-communist foreign.policy.
So when communism implodes in Russia and China abandons Marxist orthodoxy, the MIS complex loses its best reason for existing. No more Communism, no more need for huge defense budgets.
What to do??
Here is the answer from the Cato Institute in 1993:
"a new specter is haunting America, one that some Americans consider more sinister than Marxism-Leninism," according to Douglas E. Streusand. "That specter is Islam."(3) The rise of political Islam in North Africa, especially the recent electoral strength of anti-liberal Islamic fundamentalist groups in Algeria; the birth of several independent Moslem republics in Central Asia whose political orientation is unclear; and the regional and international ties fostered by Islamic governments in Iran and Sudan are all producing, as Washington Post columnist Jim Hoagland put it, an "urge to identify Islam as an inherently anti-democratic force that is America's new global enemy now that the Cold War is over."(4)
"Islamic fundamentalism is an aggressive revolutionary movement as militant and violent as the Bolshevik, Fascist, and Nazi movements of the past," according to Amos Perlmutter. It is "authoritarian, anti-democratic, anti-secular," and cannot be reconciled with the "Christian-secular universe" and its goal is the establishment of a "totalitarian Islamic state" in the Middle East, he argued, suggesting that the United States should make sure the movement is "stifled at birth."(5)
Radical Islamic terrorism is the new Communism — ISIS is the new Viet Cong, Afghanistan the new Vietnam.
I lived in the culture between the early 1950s and the late 1980s. Since I'm still here, I've watched the subsequent growth of the "terrorist threat" along with everyone else.
There is a dramatic and undeniable consistency in language, in State policy and in political factions between then and now. The very same "strong anti-communist" factions are now the "strong anti-terrorist" factions.
It's almost like they wear uniforms; but they do have published statements — and there's not a bit of political difference among McCarthy, Nixon, Reagan, Cheney, and Trump. Their enemies changed but their rhetoric and political strategy is remarkably similar. Liberals ignore "fly-over country" (Trump), condescend to regular Americans by wearing earth tones (Bush), appeal to Reagan Democrats (Reagan(, beware the "silent majority"(Nixon) The words change, the meanings remain.
The answer to every opponent, every argument, every peep of skepticism is exactly the same: "Do you want the Communists [terrorists] to win?" They even threaten a worldwide caliphate — just like international Communism, THE RED MENACE!! (cue Jaws theme music) — if we allow the buggers even one single victory.
Here Glenn even drags out and dusts off the old liberal complaints of McCarthyism. As if Donald Trump is fighting this ancient liberal battle against fierce rightists protecting the MIS complex.
Two problems:
1. Defense spending in 2017 budget — $735b.
2. Donald Trump says he will increase military spending, "loves" war, advocates torture, promises reprisal killings, and knows more about ISIS than the generals. He rides with the same old anti-communist factions reinvented as Nationalists, White Nationalists, anti-immigrant xenophobia, and anti-Muslim militancy.
Meanwhile, add in the Russian conspiracy to weaken the US, undermine Nato, and flood social media and news sites with pro-Trump/pro-Russian propaganda, and the stage is set for yet another.
This puts the MIS in a tough spot. Either capitulate to Russia by supporting Trump or capitulate to the "liberals" by supporting anti-Trump coalitions. (I think Clinton is history. I could be wrong.)
Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Wilt Says: 'That' s intelligence agencies doing what they're paid to do…'
IC Doing What They're Paid To Do: Do CIA Directors continuously lie to the American Public (Brennan, Morrel, Patraeus, Morrel, Hayden, Goss, Tenet, Deutsch, Woolsey, Gates, Webster, Casey, Turner, Bush, Colby, Schlesinger, Helms, Raborn, McCone and Dulles) and anonymously feed US Propaganda (Fake News) to MSM management and personnel they either bribe or blackmail a la Project Mockingbird as described by Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Carl Bernstein?
And beyond though the current day…
We all know what this shadowy research group paid the Washington Post to do Wilt. Publish stories Ben Bradlee would have laughed at or fired any cub reporter for submitting..
A QUESTION FOR WILT: How does Wilt "know" PropOrNots undisclosed experts are doing what they're paid to do if Wilt doesn't know who they are (secret), how they're funded (secret), what research methodologies they employ (secret) to collect their as yet undisclosed data (secret) to feed their (secret) research algorithms to draw their independently unverifiable conclusions?
"A QUESTION FOR WILT: How does Wilt "know" PropOrNot[']s undisclosed experts "
That someone doesn't recognize the use of selective capitalization in ProPornot may be a sign that someone has been hitting the Pinot a little hard …
A QUESTION FOR WILT: How does Wilt "know" PropOrNots undisclosed experts are doing what they're paid to do …
I do not know the sun shines or that the moon isn't made of green cheese. Like everyone else on earth, I draw conclusions and I hope those conclusions I draw are less outlandish than the conclusions others draw.
I have no inside information. The first I heard of ProporNot is this article. Far from outlandish, it seems quite reasonable to me that some sort of ad hoc group of Trump … um … opponents (like myself) would emerge and especially from the ranks of official government agencies and official corporate news.
It is the same sort of reasoning behind throwing bread crumbs in the park (or that wretched Costner baseball movie) . If X happens, Y follows. Here, X = Trump's declaration of victory and Y = opposition.
Trump's win — besides being not predicted, unlikely, a disaster for the country, and a repudiation of democracy and common logic — can't have been unforeseen. Many in government, (what passes for) news, and in mom's basements around the world must have imagined a parallel universe in which a prickly, illiterate, mean-spirited dumbass gets elected president.
Despite the fact that Jerzy Kosinski and Mike Judge had already imagined this catastrophic possibility of an utterly unfit guy becoming president, real people in real jobs who know how the real world really works must have made plans to do something real.
Thus when somebody does something, I draw a conclusion that these are experts enough to be known to one another sufficient to know their collective non-partisan response to a Trump presidency. I imagine they're like minded people with sufficient name recognition to collaborate.
This is how I know. It's what I expected. As much as any conclusion drawn from scarce facts, it seems most reasonable to me. If I knew in the way your question suggest I know then I would have said, "this is how I know.
That is why I wrote these two sentences following, you know, other words contributing to my meaning.
That's not McCarthism. That' s intelligence agencies doing what they're paid to do.
You needn't go all Area 51 on me. People actually do perform tasks they're paid to perform. Even government employees. Even corporate news staffs.
Besides, the articles states:
In casting the group behind this website as "experts," the Post described PropOrNot simply as "a nonpartisan collection of researchers with foreign policy, military and technology backgrounds." Not one individual at the organization is named. The executive director is quoted, but only on the condition of anonymity, which the Post said it was providing the group "to avoid being targeted by Russia's legions of skilled hackers."
I suspect no amount of knowledge will be sufficient to know, but that's how I know. (<– notice the de-stress to indicate ordinary knowing.)
Finally, I cannot imagine the Pentagon is too happy with a Putin puppet in the presidency. I also imagine they've game planned for this.
Thus when somebody does something, I draw a conclusion that these are experts enough to be known to one another sufficient to know their collective non-partisan response to a Trump presidency. I imagine they're like minded people with sufficient name recognition to collaborate.
That is some fancy keyboarding to convince yourself you are not duped by a gag site named Pro Porno. (The 'T' is silent as in Pinot Noir; get it?)
Your imagination is just that.
A QUESTION FOR WILT: How does Wilt "know" PropOrNots undisclosed experts are doing what they're paid to do …
How does Wilt "know" PropOrNots undisclosed experts are doing what they're paid to do if Wilt doesn't know who they are (secret), how they're funded (secret), what research methodologies they employ (secret) to collect their as yet undisclosed data (secret) to feed their (secret) research algorithms to draw their independently unverifiable conclusions?
WILT: I do not know the sun shines or that the moon isn't made of green cheese. Like everyone else on earth, I draw conclusions and I hope those conclusions I draw are less outlandish than the conclusions others draw.
WILT: I have no inside information. The first I heard of ProporNot is this article. Far from outlandish, it seems quite reasonable to me that some sort of ad hoc group of Trump … um … opponents (like myself) would emerge and especially from the ranks of official government agencies and official corporate news.
WILT: It is the same sort of reasoning behind throwing bread crumbs in the park (or that wretched Costner baseball movie) . If X happens, Y follows. Here, X = Trump's declaration of victory and Y = opposition.
WILT: Trump's win — besides being not predicted, unlikely, a disaster for the country, and a repudiation of democracy and common logic — can't have been unforeseen. Many in government, (what passes for) news, and in mom's basements around the world must have imagined a parallel universe in which a prickly, illiterate, mean-spirited dumbass gets elected president.
WILT: Despite the fact that Jerzy Kosinski and Mike Judge had already imagined this catastrophic possibility of an utterly unfit guy becoming president, real people in real jobs who know how the real world really works must have made plans to do something real.
WILT: Thus when somebody does something, I draw a conclusion that these are experts enough to be known to one another sufficient to know their collective non-partisan response to a Trump presidency. I imagine they're like minded people with sufficient name recognition to collaborate.
WILT: This is how I know. It's what I expected. As much as any conclusion drawn from scarce facts, it seems most reasonable to me. If I knew in the way your question suggest I know then I would have said, "this is how I know.
WILT: That is why I wrote these two sentences following, you know, other words contributing to my meaning.
WILT: That's not McCarthyism. That's intelligence agencies doing what they're paid to do.
WILT: You needn't go all Area 51 on me. People actually do perform tasks they're paid to perform. Even government employees. Even corporate news staffs.
WILT: Besides, the articles states:
In casting the group behind this website as "experts," the Post described PropOrNot simply as "a nonpartisan collection of researchers with foreign policy, military and technology backgrounds." Not one individual at the organization is named. The executive director is quoted, but only on the condition of anonymity, which the Post said it was providing the group "to avoid being targeted by Russia's legions of skilled hackers."
WILT: I suspect no amount of knowledge will be sufficient to know, but that's how I know. (<– notice the de-stress to indicate ordinary knowing.)
WILT: Finally, I cannot imagine the Pentagon is too happy with a Putin puppet in the presidency. I also imagine they've game planned for this.
"A QUESTION FOR WILT: How does Wilt "know" PropOrNots undisclosed experts are doing what they're paid to do …"
Here is what PropOrNot say about how they are compensated. See below
"We are currently volunteering time and skills to identify propaganda"
Monkey, meet Wrench.
Don't sweat it, CCH. Milton just learned today what the term, "Red-Baiting" means. So, don't have too many expectations regarding logic, argument, etc.
Oh, and he doesn't understand "Substance over Form" concept. He doesn't believe HRC did anything wrong just because she wasn't convicted by a court of law. I wonder how he sees the 2008 financial collapse. I guess all those bankers are A-Okay with him as long as they weren't convicted.
Substance = Spirit of the Law
Form = Letter of the Law
Wow, 17, count-em, SEVEN-damn-TEEN, servants of the state said what the state wanted them to say. As I said to many Clintonite trolls back in the primary, you are either dumb as dirt or getting paid (one way or another). Btw, you're not fooling anyone with four or more functioning brain cells.
CS cannot see the irony in his quest to determine if " any credible ones still alive?"
Jeff Bezos attempt at playing Citizen Kane is hilarious.
I will say Glen this article and the Washington Post did diserve that vitriolic style you used in a recent article.
Silly me I thought Saul Alinsky was dead
George Carlin would say that everything the U.S. government declares is fake news…
I have certain rules I live by. My first rule, I don't believe anything the government tells me – and I don't take very seriously the media, or the press, in this country.
Oh, I have long known that Carlin was a genius!
PropOrNot are not really very shady and not even a group until recently you can find 'them' on reddit.
The Russians ate my homework…..
The key thing to bear in mind with this plan for suppression of "fake news" is that it copies the Chinese policy since 2011 of using the Great Firewall and other methods to act against dissidents for spreading "false rumors". Facebook has taken action to cooperate with US elites against fake news, and it is simultaneously taking action to cooperate with Chinese authorities against false rumors. ( http://www.computerworld.com/article/3144353/internet/facebook-said-to-create-censorship-tool-to-enter-china-again.html )
That is not to say that outrageously false, stupid stories did not appear before the election. *I* knew they were false and I knew people who swore up and down to me they were true, who should have known better. But the way to fight those stories is by demanding higher standards of sourcing from our media, and higher standards of checking sources from ourselves.
Great article, thanks.
Peace On Earth…Purity of Editorialism
Job well done Glenn, but your criticism is too mild, we must squash these cockroaches running Wapo, this propaganda outfit passing as mainstream press before Cold War 2.0 driven McCarthyism returns with vengeance. We will not be bullied or shut up no more.
The WAPO shills are prostitutes for the global ruling elite and political establishment that have been horrible embarrassed of losing last shred of credibility, revealing themselves of buffoons, morons, big freaking mouth mof.os who do not know a shi..t, not because they lie but cause they have been unvailed as impotent in shaping public opinion and manipulate outcome of the election thru propaganda lies they are paid for to proliferate and are now in panic that their bosses will whip their ass..es hard and freak them up literally and metaphorically out of their cushy repugnant and dirty jobs as poor excuses for journalists, actually being nothing but abhorrent influence peddlers.But their disdain for ordinary people and and hatred for those who picked up the fight for masses of deplorables is echoing the inhumane attitude of their ruling elite bosses.
Here is who are those ruling elite WAPO sold out to and for whose silver coin they spew the McCarthyism venom:
An excerpt from:
"Structure of Society vs. Moral Attitudes [of Elites].
Every society consist of a continuously emerging elite, a group of often interbred families or clans that persuaded themselves that it is their prerogative to control the rest of society, seen as animalistic masses, immoral abominations of humanity. They see themselves, whether they admit it or not, as reluctant saviors of the humanity, against all odds. Their self-proclaimed objective and perceived necessity is to become the absolute moral arbiters, life and death decision makers. They believe that they are Hegelian type "ubermensch", supermen, meant as the only true humans, the building blocks and foundations of perfect social order and the power structure able to support it. Hence, to hold the power is their solemn duty, a burden they must carry for the higher good of the society at large.
They consider themselves not as much better humans as they just consider the rest of the humanity as a certain earthly creatures, items of natural world, a resource to be harvested or exploited in any way they deem necessary.
Such a attitude permeates all the decision-making processes within the ruling elite, all understood not as means of survival and dominance but as a self-sacrifice for the higher end, for higher purposes than their individual well-being, one of the paranoid delusions deviously nurtured among themselves.
In their obviously psychopathic or even psychotic state of mind it is all about the binary moral order, the good and the evil, absolute truths and absolute values, incomprehensible concepts to those who don't belong, those unable to achieve the higher state of consciousness beyond any notion of forethought or petty human concerns. Seen as a matter of the objective reality, their law is their will and their morality is their immediate need or benefit, all the other considerations rescinded. They regard themselves beyond any earthly moral insecurities or doubts as an expression of the ultimate justice and absolute truth.
What is astounding that all those assertions are not developed and accepted by the ruling elite as much as dogmas of their rule but rather as a rational conclusion based on the results of numerous experiments and detailed observations of the society at large and its behavior. The ruling elite rationally concludes that their rule is the only thing that works for all the society.
The idea of the ruling elite as a conspiracy in common meaning of the word it is not, since they have no specific plan of action or even specific ultimate objective to be achieved, short of holding onto the power and expand the limits of control by whatever means available. What they use are the methods and techniques of manipulating of the population stratified into the casts or classes via propaganda of the abstract concepts of economic development, political process, social policies, law, religion, science, vertical mobility, sports, nationalism, racism etc., and in the cases when it fails they use raw brutality as the ultimate expression of "innate" morality of their power."
In other words, they steal everything.
Wallstreet thieves will tell US, nay show US, that there is more profit in stealing than earning. And there is more profit in valuation fraud than real markets. Thieves, if they can run the planet, they end up in prison.
Wapo is simply trying to increase it's readership. And all the NYT readers are falling for it.
Ron Paul on Julian Assange and the false unnecessary wars :
Maybe George Soros, the Russians threw him and cronies out. Could also look at some EU members with economic issues.
One of the worrying aspects of this is that their are rumors that Russia is going to release more WWII documents, specifically documents dealing with the manufacture of the Holocaust. These deal with the smearing of the German people, the propaganda work and the false "lampshades", "gas chambers", shrunken heads, etc., evidence. This will be a seismic shock to the European people. The Americans will have to be faced with the falsity of the Nuremberg Trials testamentary given under torture and a certain demographic is going to lose a lot of shekels.
This may be a lead up to try to Smear Russia and lessen the impact of these revelations.
That's funny – the socialists and communists at the Washington Post claim that people who hate leftists like them are allied with the communists running Russia.
Communists don't run Russia,capitalists do.
But yes,they do try to associate anti zionism with Russians,as these criminals are all Trotskyite descendants,to whom communism was just a vehicle of command and control.
These people are not egalitarians.
Nice echo chamber you have going here.
Propornot has Ukrainian fingerprints all over it, including Twitter tags typical of Ukie nationalists. Money and oversight most likely provided by the EU. Tramp's victory served as a catalyst for this coming out.
The only thing lower than WashPo is whale $hit.
Drudge is all links. WaPo should add itself to "The List" since Drudge frequently links their articles. By implication, WaPo must also be a Russian propaganda outlet.
Interesting coincidence that it appears just as "Correct the record" starts to go away…
Looks as though the WP got played.
Citing Buzzfeed and featuring a bunch of tweets while making a bunch of noise about how you think we should feel is journalism. The presupposition is that you are the propaganda that we should trust while dropping doubt on other propaganda. I say cool story, how about that snow job?
Was I really censored for adamantly taking issue w/Mr Greenwald's position on Russian Propaganda?
I first stated that I was aware of journalists walking off the air.
Then I cited the shows that I watch.
I included links for Thom Hartmann – Big Picture, Chris Hedges – On Contact , and I threw in Lee Camp, comedian, on Redacted Tonight. I have been watching Hartmann on RT for years. The other shows are bonuses that I discovered. (I'm not doing the work again, unless people insist.)
I don't watch Larry King or Ed Schultz – but I do not think they are Russian toys.
Did your post include more than one link? For some reason, posts with multiple links never go through. You weren't censored, but were victimized by limitations of the sites posting system.
Just resubmit your info with one link per post.
Agreed. Multiple links per post hang up the post to be cleared the next day.
Check back at 11am next day to see if they post through.
Many links, as in the first part I cited three people.
Then I added a few links to the State Department briefings by John Kirby and his combative treatment of RT reporter Gayane Chichakyan – who was twice defended by AP's Matt Lee.
RT stooge (not likely): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges
Are TinyURL or bitly not accepted? Is there something more protected?
I never closed Notepad, but I am not sure if I have everything.
Thank you for the tips, Galactus and Donald B.
Do you guys love Putin too? One part of this piece was highly disturbing:
"demonstrable bias in promoting NATO's narrative about the world…".
What is precisely wrong with the NATO narrative? Quite frankly, if you are saying they are bad you can go back to Moscow…
Well, I don't know…if anyone knows about fake news, it would be the Washington Post.
Good work Glen. Propornot is alarming indeed. Thank you for the heads up. What's eye opening for me is the majority of the sites listed are pretty good sources for what's really going on in the world. The fact they attack and list both left and right outlets reinforce my believe it's probably a Clinton operation or others who enjoy the status quo.
I think their stupid website might backfire on their agenda.
By listing all the websites they claim are propaganda hubs for Putin/Russia, I discovered some really cool sites! Like the Corbett Report!!
Thanks Propornot!
I agree; Corbett is definitely worth a listen.
Same here. I just added nakedcapitalism to my bookmarks. lol.
Really curious to see just how many new readers these (too small to sue for libel) great websites get from the free publicity? There must be hundreds of thousands of disgusted loyal, life-long Keynesian Democrats looking for ANY pertinent, fact-checked journalism, as the big-name liberal blog aggregators became a plaything for David Brock's trolls? It took no time at all, before these blogs dumped prescient, experienced and factual writers for K Street's social networking advocacy interns, cut&pasting echo-chamber, click-bait agitprop; as moderators removed, then banned long-time readers who dared post pertinent links to factual articles. It must've seemed required hardball tactics, after the fiascos here in NYC, the Acela Primary & California, leading to Philadelphia, where the last glimmer of hope of defeating Trump was smugly stomped out, along with any pretense of either platform or down-ticket candidates rank and file Democrats wanted to vote for? With so many media deserts, rural and urban; folks turned to the blogs and comment threads, to refute the reality infomercial of glib große Lüge we're all fed every day.
You've got it all wrong : it's simply Michael Lucas's latest private joke…
proPORNot… Hello !?
Marty Baron says independent analysts
What do you mean Marty? You didn't cut the checks directly?
Let's get this straight: If you want peaceful coexistence and cooperation over, let's say, oh….I dunno…OIL and Natural Gas…then you're an Enemy of the State. This is verified by solid, reliable, and always truthful Washington Post.
Every violent, abusive person has justified their cruelty saying, "You deserved to be taught a lesson…you brought it on yourself…"
As for anti-semitism, it's the Mainstream media that puts out the Goebbel-isms.
It is garbage like this that makes one not even trust the box scores if the WP prints them.
"Except that Clintonites are, like Hillary Rodham Nixon, corporate conservatives, through and through." -Steve Magruder
Wait Steve, Clintonites are the voters whom no less than Bernie Sanders told to vote for her. Clintonites are gun-control legislating, anthropogenic Climate Change acknowledging, Equality chanting, public employee union promoting, immigration reforming, Obamacare preserving, NY Times subscribing, hard progressive leftists.
So as it turns out, it's the progressive leftists who are the corporatists.
Entertaining, and engrossing article my dear. I kept getting interrupted, however, continued to return to it without getting bored. I enjoy your verbiage, and thank you for being so direct. It is appreciated.
A big part of this "fake news" push is about trying to discredit and put the lib back on the pizzagate scandal that's been going viral online.
oops – lid*
You would think with the hole that 99% of the media has dug itself into over the election this would be a no touch, no publish article, but no the deranged and misdirected Liberal brain trumps all.
It's interesting to follow the spread of propaganda. Once the Washington Post gave credibility to the anonymous list on PropOrNot, other mainstream media are free to repeat and amplify the story. As reported in USA Today, Reports: Russian operation boosted 'fake news' phenomenon:
Two teams of independent researchers found that the Russians exploited American-made technology platforms to attack U.S. democracy at a particularly vulnerable moment in the rancorous campaigns.
Combined with Jill Stein's campaign for recounts in key states, is this a serious campaign to reverse the results of the election?
I will be amusing if the US gets Mrs. Clinton as president and a war with Russia after all.
Oh the horror, the horror!
You can't call it a vote recount unless it is ALL votes, not just a few states the wicked witch of the universe would like to steal.
"The credentials of this supposed group of experts are impossible to verify, as none is provided either by the Post or by the group itself. "
You should check with the Democratic Party; they really have nothing better to do than toss mud balls at ghosts.
It would look better for the Intercept if it had made this list, too.
Had to stop reading when you started questioning methodology after an early salvo of "This Post report was one of the most widely circulated political news articles on social media over the last 48 hours…" with nothing to back that up either. Pot meet kettle.
Since their criteria for judging propaganda are not being shared, one can only assume it is modeled after their namesake, the venerable attractiveness rating website HotOrNot. I imagine that various news organizations were displayed, and the members of the PropOrNot group would click on "Prop" or "Not" to make the determination.
Shoddy, slothful journalistic tactics is a perfect perfect description of the idiocy produced by Ben NeoNaz Norton.
Hopefully, this is the final nail in the whole idea of "fake news" whatever that really is. When a supposed fine example of the MSM resorts to publishing this nonsense as actual news or opinion, they have" jumped the shark" and exposed themselves as something less than even a shill. At some point the Washington Post will look back on this and shudder in embarrassment. So much for the layers of fact checkers we were told about this. Maybe Factcheck.org, Politifact, and Snopes should hop on this.
Lol…jump the shark..that's perfect!
Here the increasingly less venerable Washington Post engages in the very worst kind of "journalism" citing conclusions reached by a newly minted (3 month old) collection of anonymous "experts" backed by Cold War think tanks reviewing data made unavailable for peer review by fellow journalists.
One of the few names the piece does mention is Clint Watts a former special agent on the JTTF and as the Executive Officer of the USMACTC. Great news. As Glenn n' Ben describe it the Washington Posts treatment of this story "embodies the toxic essence of Joseph McCarthy but without the courage to attach their names to their blacklist"
This should concern everyone. If current and former law enforcement populate this or similarly populated "anonymous groups" are assessing the "Anti Americanism" of US citizens reading and US journalists writing habits how long will it be until such individuals are blacklisted for a wide range of secretly manifested transgressions against the state by anonymous parties with no means for redress of grievances.
Evidence Based vs. Accusation-Driven Prosecutions (Stalinist Show Trial Targets)
Evidence-Based vs. Accusation-Driven Reporting (DHS Suspicious Activity Reports Targets)
"…If you are evidence-based you lead with the lack of evidence for explosive or insidious charges. That becomes the news. If you are accusation-driven, the news is that certain people are making charges. With the details we may learn that there's no evidence, but the frame in which that discovery is made remains "he said, she said."
After the 2016 campaign, in which the winner routinely floated baseless charges — including many about the press — the unsuitability of accusation-driven news coverage should be obvious to mainstream journalists…"
THEY (anonymous unaccountable parties) target you for WHAT you read, write, say and show HOW MUCH you read, write, say or show HOW YOU GO ABOUT RESEARCHING what you've read, written, said or showed and who you communicate with about what have, are or will read, write, say or show.
Although Vladimir Putin has spoken positively of Drumpf, I think that he rejoiced too soon. Far from "draining the swamp", the talking pumpkin is hiring the old guard.
I wonder if the evangelical Christians – whom I call Krishchunz – realize that in idolizing Putin's Russia for its anti-gay policies, they're idolizing one of Iran's number one allies (remember, these yahoos want the US to attack Iran).
As for Tila Tequila, some people might not be familiar with her. She's a half-white, half-Vietnamese woman who adopted white supremacy as her shtick. She frequently appears at Nazi events.
Hey General,
You sound like a miserable Loser. Go crawl back into your hole.
Recite this 3 times fast before you do :
President Trump
President Trump
President Trump.
Lee, with all due respect, you are misinformed. As a Born Again believer myself, I know of no one of like mind who idolizes Putin nor Trump for that matter. It appears that idolatry is quite prevalent on the left though, such as Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Castro, Obama and Clinton As for anti-gay policies, though I disagree with the practice, people of gay persuasion are God's children too. If you go to the aids wards you will note that the majority of people helping are Christians. We are also there helping in the inner city. Gays have nothing to fear from Christians, but they do from Clinton and Obama policies which want to flood our country with people who do not respect gays, women , people of different faiths, or minorities.
"It appears that idolatry is quite prevalent on the left though, such as Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Castro, Obama and Clinton …"
There was not idolatry for Reagan on the left.
What kind of church are you going to?
I have this suspicion that the site is a giant hoax, fishing to see how many people are gullible enough to take the bait. How else do you explain the complaints of anonymous meddling whilst remaining anonymous?
Is it just me or does their website name seem odd… keep reading it as ProPornOT… as in Over-Time… like they used a domain name for their fake news site that they'd previously purchased for one of their porn enterprises.
Can't believe a major newspaper would quote annonymous sources from a source like that… a sign of the times.
Stay alert, question authority!
Blacklisting was a by-product of the HUAC hearings which began in 1948, two years before McCarthy was sworn in as a US Senator. Labeling the tactics being deployed by ProctoNaut and the editorial staff at WaPo "McCarthyite" dishonors the memory of a true American, and continues to promote the fictions that the Left have effectively attached to his name. McCarthy was flawed, true, but his mission was limited to finding and expelling Soviet spies that were working at the State Department. He had nothing to do with blacklisting. The Democrats, having been in charge since 1933, had a very partisan interest in dismissing infiltration at the highest levels of government as paranoid fantasy, and quickly moved to crush any investigation that might reveal the extent to which Stalin had penetrated our government.
And who did the Democrats turn to in 1952 to disseminate their anti-McCarthy propaganda? Why, none other than the Washington Post and the New York Times. Some things never change.
Prepare for three weeks of The Big Lie while the Left attempt for the first time in history to steal the electoral vote right in front of God and everybody. Expect buses to roll, riots to bloom, and Hillary to resume campaigning in key states.
But remember:
"Everything HRC touches she kind of screws up with hubris." -Colin Powell
millions of Americans have been deceived this year in a massive Russian "misinformation campaign." Well, not really………but………
Million of Americans have been deceived this year by the Washington Compost.
Desperate much?
The MSM i.e. The Wash Post, NY Times, CNN, Fox et. al. laments that it no longer has a stranglehold on the 'news' propaganda.
I'm actually very grateful to the Washington Post – I'd heard of only a fraction of these websites but I'm working my way through the list signing up to the best of them.
I hadn't realized how many great sites there were! Thanks, WaPo, keep up the fantastic work!
Who gives the green light and the green cash for these ridiculous articles, Jeff Bezos , of course!
Bezos is just as unschooled and as much of a "fellow traveler" from the Cold was as Timberg. Just much richer and more globally opinionated.
Never forget…
1. The left always accuses the right of the 'sins' they ALWAYS commit.
2. The left has to EXAGGERATE how right we go in order to scare their base into action… their followers vote based on FEAR.
3. McCarthyism has been going on in the left for years… their terminology, however is not, COMMUNISTS, but: bigots, Islamophobia, homophobia, sexists, climate-change skeptics, etc.
…and to the 'Fake News' charge that they are labeling the GOP, President Trump, RIGHT NOW, must investigate Hilary Clinton to debunk the insinuation that it was just 'Russian propaganda', but it was the actual criminal activity of the Clintons the reason people change their vote and supported Trump.
umm…but they were infiltrating in the 50's or have you not heard of those admitting decades later that they were sweating it in the 50's that they'd be found out? or the professors that turned out todays professors that turned out todays young communists?
The only fake news I know of is CNN. CNN = Fake News
Most if not all of the corporate media is corrupted by its corporate bias. It just reveals itself in different ways, depending on which network you're discussing.
Funny you have to keep reminding people of that. I learned this year that Megan Kelly can do a terrific job. I watched all of the shows, until I can't take it anymore. MSNBC pissed me off, FOX is mostly too deceptive to count, CNN prefers to cover plane crashes. I watch Democracy Now! They cut Thom Hartmann to 30 minutes on RT (I'll have to complain) but they are adding Atty Mike Papantonio (interesting man). I recently discovered Viceland which has great series, Cyberwars and Black Market. I'll watch the UK, China, Japan, Korea, France, Russia, just to find out what's going on here and abroad. I watch C-SPAN, 2, and 3. I think I have a lot covered, but not enough. PBS has a channel devoted to Native Americans. There are only so many hours in a day for news. I try to choose wisely or watch John Oliver and reruns of Masters and Johnson or catch up on Ray Donovan (particularly violent) with their own Russian mobster.
The whole MSM is fake news.
My new nickname for The Washington Post: "The 21st Century Beacon for Yellow Journalism".
WaPo should be sued by most entries on "The List".
What is stunning is the poor quality of this agitprop. The awkward language in the Timberg article is telling: "…the kind of folks…. bad business". Paraphrased statements from Propornot are peppered with dumbed down phrases that indicate the speaker hopes to influence an 'average man'. Some hypothetical target individual who is, conveniently, not all that sharp and who is partial to very simple, folksy language. But, where are these morons (h/t Mel Brooks, Blazing Saddles) ? Who are they? They are not the median reader of the WaPo, that is certain.
The whole schmear reads like it was spun off of a final project from a spring semester seminar in public relations: "Influences on Modern Electoral Politics 431/631″, MW 5:00-6:30 pm. Room 23-122. Bring your own beer.
I think that Correct the Record morphed into PropOrNot. Now that they're no longer needed to spread the Hildebeast propaganda. How could anyone believe any of this drivel? Nothing to back it up, no credibility, integrity or track record. Just another spring up that wants to point the finger at anyone and everyone that disrupts their narrative. Sorry, ya propagandists but we're all wise to you now. You hold no sway with anyone who actually has an original thought in their heads and doesn't just mindlessly follow. Knock yourselves out though, your words are falling on deaf ears.
Sincere thanks go to Norton and Greenwald for letting me know about this wonderful new resource.
Greenwald ignores the larger point in order to promote his jihad against the Clintons, the Post and other MSM pubs that dare challenge his pacific world view of the Kremlin. US intelligence agencies have tracked Russia's media policy and reached the uniform conclusion that it was part of a broader campaign to foster an anti-Hillary, pro-Trump news cycle. I don't know anything about the identities of the PropOrNot organization and neither does Greenwald – or Ingram whose embarrassingly shallow piece was utter clickbait. Putin played this one beautifully and he bamboozled the usual suspects – including Greenwald. My only hope is that the intelligence bureaucracy will disclose publicly what they uncovered in order to give the lie to columns like this one. You don't need to be a clueless Cold Warrior to be concerned about the interference of a foreign power in our domestic affairs.
the 'intelligence bureaucracy' is certainly an excellent, reliable source of truth, they never lie to serve their masters… DEEERP.
WP – Can't WP understand??? You pissed away any credibility you had pre 2016. How many time did you Proclaim Trump done, imploded, etc. WP IS PROPAGANDA.
The sour grapes from the crybaby Clinton supporters is endless.
WAPO has morphed into just another of a collection of panicked globalist rags that spew sewage while praying that their historic legacy will lend credibility.
On top of the Washington Post/New York Times both of whom selectively publish 'Fake News' and support the Neo-Marxist (socialist/liberal) Globalism push, which has replaced 'old speak' the World Communism/Marxist push. Like all Marxist/Neo-Marxist's/Globalist world domination theory, 'United Nation' centered nations and extracting treasure and dominating the first world nations to finance the third world.
Go figure.
"For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances as though they were realities and are often more influenced by things that seem than by those that are" — Nicolo Machiavelli
Washington Compost… fitting.
Today's media is so one sided and in the tank for the advancement of the Progressive State, they would make Leni Riefenstahl or Pravda blush. Donna Brazil had been caught but the question is how many other reporters at CNN and other news organizations were not caught. All the ones that came to see Trump were DNC shills and have given up and right to be called journalists. All of the ones that put out fake news stories should be barred from the press room for a month when they do a cut and paste from the DNC.
When I saw the excellent Naked Capitalism blog on the list, I knew that propornot was garbage. Those tweets sound like a teenager wrote them. No one with any media experience would ever write that way, regardless of their political leanings.
The Washington Post got taken in by an obvious troll.
When I saw Black Agenda Report on the list … I was proud. The fact we are talking about 'lists' shows how close neo-liberalism is to becoming to fascism.
If all the people on "The List" got together and sued The Post for defamation of character then maybe the damages they had to pay for would be enough to end the "news" source. I am sure if they tried hard enough they could find out who Propornot is and include them in the lawsuit and ruin them as well…and legally. Make a frivolous lawsuit do something good for a change.
the Washington POOP is good only for lining bird cages.
Sounds like a stupid fabrication to delegitimize trumps presidency. Sorta like the birther thing with obama.
Sweep it under the rug and ignore these marxist trash bags who self label themselves as journalist. Just like the left did with the birther thing.
Who cares. Yay for trump!
The Washington COMpost
Maybe someone should inform them that the Election is over. THEY lost and America won.
The closest thing we have to Russian Communists are the Left Wing Crazies in the Democratic Party
super-intelligent comment, thanks
Except that Clintonites are, like Hillary Rodham Nixon, corporate conservatives, through and through.
When it comes to corruption Nixon wasn't in the same league as the Clintons at all. Not even a close second.
As to the Clintons, let's not mistake naked opportunism for Conservatism.
Also, Nixon was no conservative. He gave us the DEA, EPA, HUD, proposed an expansion of ADC that would have doubled welfare rolls (not passed), ended the gold standard, and was the first President to agree to a nuclear arms treaty with the Soviets. Call him what you want, but don't call him a conservative.
What the Left despises most about him is that he outed Alger Hiss as a Soviet spy. Unforgiven for that one to this day.
You are all particularly unhelpful. Your three comments, just to be clear.
I bet PropOrNot is a guy living in his mom's basement who thinks he's very clever at Googling stuff and finding "patterns".
Could be the soon to be unemployed Ben Rhodes>
That's their way of trying to control the information people hear. If you only hear the democratic talking points and opinions you will remain a low-information democrat voter forever. It's all about keeping their people on their plantation, keeping them distracted and fighting about identify politics while becoming ignorant, no skill, leeches feeding off the tax payer. They get college degrees in identity politics now. They give PHD's in this stupidity. Once they are dependent they have a democrat for life.
Its " The Washington Post " ! Think about what that means folks .
BTW— Wall Street is in NY so they call their rag THE NYTIMES .
As a Wikipedia editor, I know most of the presentation is baseless pap from someone who only has a superficial understanding of what's going on.
But I will say this: Wikipedia depends too much on a resource that is becoming increasingly bad in terms of corporate bias — the corrupt corporate media. But what replacement "reliable sources" regarding current happenings can the Wikipedia rely on?
I used to be a Wikipedia editor but barely post any more. The "reliable source" excuse has been used to corrupt Wikipedia into becoming a left-liberal site, because only left-liberal news sources are "reliable sources".
Wikipedia needs to burn down to the ground and another site needs to take its place, hopefully one more dedicated to the marketplace of ideas, instead of the orthodoxy of the MSM.
I don't trust this woman. She mentioned a Philip Roth controversy, but he simply tried to get Wikipedia to believe his user account about something when *anyone* could register as "Philip Roth" and claim to be the author. Wikipedia doesn't check ID cards. So the standards are that he would have to publish something, at least put it on his web site, don't just take "Philip Roth", Wikipedia Editor's word for it.
She also raised a red flag with an apparent positive mention of a vaccine-autism link, which is bullshit that has traditionally been paid for. I'm suspicious her Redskins example was also sponsored. That's not to say that commercial interests *don't* have a sneaky, highly unwelcome footprint on Wikipedia, but their influence is not unlimited.
It is the method of cowards, isn't it?
And the Washington Post has always been a pretty cowardly publication, never challenging government on anything which really mattered, as in all the horrible colonial wars and Neocon Wars in which millions have been killed.
The Ministry of Truth continues it`s work, George Orwell was right . Members include WAPO,NYT,USA TODAY,ETC, and all the major television news outlets .We the people done believe them anymore nor do we need them. Thank you for this article . We must be ever vigilant .
I would love for the PropOrNot fake news blog to be hacked by the Russians or anyone else to see who is behind it. Soros is the likely suspect, but I would bet my bottom dollar the Washington Post is a part of it as well.
The media has become so distrusted these days that most people just skip it altogether, and the media will of course assume that is because everyone is too stupid to see their 'truths'.
Soros this, Soros that. :rollseyes:
There are plenty of other manipulators in this world. Think.
Soros, space aliens, the juice. Go to hell.
Pull back the curtain and you will see George Soros manipulating this along with Bezos.
The Washington Post is a fake news site. Jeff Bezos runs the Washington Post to protect Amazon from anti trust suit. Anyone who doesn't conform to the Crooked Hillary- Jeb Bush model of politics is slammed as pro Putin.
The biggest fake news sites are ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, NPR CNN, Washington Post, New York Times, and LA Times. They resemble the old Pravda which prints all the news that the political elite accepts.
Earth-shattering exposé? The only thing exposed is the propensity of the left to silence any opposition by propaganda and slander. At least McCarthy put his name on the line with his (true) accusations. It's a shame Joe couldn't finish the job because he was right and we wouldn't be where we are now as a country.
Executive Editor Marty Baron has George Soros roaming around in his underpants!!! WaPo was SO off-base during the last 4 years and in the runup to America's Rejection of Mainstream Media Propoganda. I could not believe the garbage they published – covering up for Hillary and mounting all out assaults on President Trump…who knew? Soros has the Executive Editor by the short-and-curlies
An obvious, clumsy and inept Democrat stalking horse. No wonder the Hilldabeast lost. The Washington Compost is earning its sobriquet.
All of this as well as the reaction by liberals to Trump's victory is the result of the disinformation campaign orchestrated by Hillary herself. People who fear Trump and call him racist are reacting to the news stories that falsely portrayed Trump as the second coming of Hitler.
The story about Russian hackers being responsible for the leaked emails was also false. The story was created by the Clinton campaign with the help of the Obama administration to give Hillary cover from the content of the leaked emails.
Julian Assange himself said the leaked emails did not come from the Russians. There was never any shred of proof that story was true. No emails were doctored either. It would be simple to prove if they were and if even one email was modified by anyone it would discredit every email after that.
The White House and Clinton campaign proved they would do anything to win, including damage relations with the Russians. But not they country has to live with the aftermath of a massive propaganda campaign that smeared Trump and the Russians.
Pro Porn…should've been the first tell. Lol
Glenzilla continues to inform! He missed on point though. Did he use incorrect cases and spacing for this groups name? Pro Porn OT? It seems to me that far too much supposed journalism, such as the WaPoo, is effectively pop culture or culture porn. Thank you glen for continuing an honorable fight against The Authoritarians!
I smell George Soros, at least where it comes to money and financing an organization like this. As far as the rest of it goes, apparently being owned by Jeff Bezos is more of a problem for a "news" organization than being owned by a conservative.
Typical Democrat party operating procedure (and the Washington Compost is clearly a propaganda arm of the Democrat Party)…
They look in the mirror, then point at others accusing them of what they see.
When they look in the mirror do they see themselves? I don't think so.
They see the bestest brightest beautiful people who have ever lived in their mirrors,but we see shite.
They are very concerned about that,our problem of perspective.
I subscribed to the WPost some years ago. Someone told me it was excellent. I cancelled within a month and asked for my money back because the paper was no better than the rest. In fact it had a sensationalist flair that reminded me of a certain NYC tabloid that poses as newspaper. So I went back to just reading LRN and NYRB as reading sources I was fairly confident in. This was about a decade ago.
Some of the tweets published by that US propaganda site look like a sad attempt to connect to Millennials! Who uses the phase "so vewwy angwy"??
So sad!
Elmer Fudd.
PropOrNot are probably alumni of
which is supported by Democratic Party's National Endowment for Democracy and the German foreign ministry.
The language is similar and there sure are some Ukrainians.
I've never heard any leftist be able to coherently connect these dots, which is;
The endless bleating all during the campaign that Trump (or any Republican during any presidential campaign actually) is unstable and he'll use nuclear weapons and start a war, and the other dot;
Putin backs Trump over Clinton.
Wait…if Trump would start a war, why would Putin support him? Putin is a lot of nasty things, but having a desire for a nuclear war does him no good, and of the two candidates, according to leftists, Trump would start one.
Why in the world would Putin be afraid of the self-dealing Hilliary?
This is a very nice piece of reporting…
The very same people whining about "fake news" are the fake news. They have been the chiefs of disinformation from the get-go. I'm talking about ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, New York Times, etc. We all know who the real liars are.
Mr. Greenwald
"……Indeed, what happened here is the essence of fake news. The Post story served the agendas of many factions: those who want to believe Putin stole the election from Hillary Clinton……."
You would think in such a close election that you might concede some basic statistics. The (potential) interference by Russia in the election – or even by WikiLeaks – may have changed the election. Only a few tens of thousands of votes separated Hillary from winning the Presidency in a few states. She won the popular vote. That is an incredibly small percentage of independent voters to influence. Indeed, you seem to be just dismissing that possibility all together as "fake" news.
But US intelligence didn't think this was fake at all. They have a high degree of confidence that Russian hackers were behind the DNC hack. That certainly is a much higher degree of confidence than you had pointing the finger at the US government for the impeachment of Rousseff in an article on Brazil:
"……Many on the Brazilian left believe that the U.S. is actively engineering the current instability in their country in order to get rid of a left-wing party that has relied heavily on trade with China……"
Now that's fake News – and you spreading it! Indeed, you expressed extreme skepticism when the US government correctly implicated North Korea for the hack of Sony Pictures:
"..……The U.S. Government's campaign to blame North Korea actually began two days earlier, when The New York Times – as usual – corruptly granted anonymity to "senior administration officials" to disseminate their inflammatory claims with no accountability………."
Even the Intercept's own columnists, Mackey, provided good evidence from non-government experts in the intelligence field for Russian hacking of the DNC. The pattern is obvious. You are adversarial to the US government in all cases. It doesn't matter to you if Russia interferes in a US election. It doesn't matter if WikiLeaks selectively releases information about Clinton to influence a US election. In fact, for the extreme left, it might be more accurate to say whether it's terrorism or just interference in US elections, it's justified. Americans deserve what is given (back) to them. You even showed a huge amount of disdain for Americans in general:
"……..I got on an airplane last night before the news of bin Laden's killing was known and had actually intended to make this point with regard to our killing of Gadaffi's son in Libya — a mere 25 years after President Reagan bombed Libya and killed Gadaffi's infant daughter. That is something the U.S. has always done well and is one of the few things it still does well……"
Craig, the combined GOP+Libertarian vote was a lot more than the Dem+Green vote.
And your conflation of the DNC hack with fake news is the problem. The DNC hack showed a deliberate and systematic collusion and corruption by Hillary and her supporters. Nothing about that was "fake." You are engaging in generative fallacy.
"……..And your conflation of the DNC hack with fake news is the problem. ….."
I'm not conflating the DNC hack with "fake news". The emails were real in my opinion exposing the lying, cheating democrats for what they are – and who I never could vote for. That doesn't excuse Russia for (potentially) hacking the DNC to influence an election. We will learn the final call on that one in time. Hillary WON the popular vote regardless of the Green Party vote and the Libertarian vote.
Craigsummers, did it never occur to you that these accusations of Russia trying to influence the USelection actually was a vote winner for Hillary. ? Did the.DNC not try to associate Trump with Putin ?
"……..Craigsummers, did it never occur to you that these accusations of Russia trying to influence the USelection actually was a vote winner for Hillary. ?……"
No, it never did occur to me. What did occur to me was the actual hacking of the DNC to attempt to influence the election. Russia had every reason to support Trump against HRC because of her willingness to challenge the Russians in Syria and elsewhere (like Ukraine).
And I am not sure how exposing that the DNC favored Hillary over Bernie helped Hillary since the election was lost in the upper Mid West among white, blue collar workers many who may have supported the message of Sanders – and the vote count was close in several game changing states. DNC Chair, Debbie Wasserman-Shultz resigned because of the release of those emails which clearly showed bias in favor of Hillary over Bernie.
The wikileaks podesta files indeed proved how biased the DNC acted pro Hillary and anti Sanders. Voters deserved to know this fact. Saying it was Russia through wikileaks and associating Trump with Putin was a tactic by the DNC to turn this in favour of Hillary. The USmedia didn't report the content of the emails but focussed on the Russia aspect. For your info: in Europe wikileaks is not regarded as an agent of the Kremlin as most MSM in tha US is trying to make us believe.
"…….For your info: in Europe wikileaks is not regarded as an agent of the Kremlin as most MSM in tha US is trying to make us believe……"
I agree with that. Assange is not an agent of the Kremlin, but he is a typical extreme leftist – anti-American to the core. That is the political motivation for Assange to release information about HRC and the DNC. Did he have similar information on Trump which he refused to release? The inherent dangers of granting one individual so much power should cause everyone to give pause for the ramifications of WikiLeaks and Assange.
"…….The wikileaks podesta files indeed proved how biased the DNC acted pro Hillary and anti Sanders. Voters deserved to know this fact……"
I agree with you here also The DNC is a sleazy lying organization, but you are dismissive of who probably is behind the theft of the emails as if it doesn't matter. But it matters a lot. That is the problem I have with the theft by Russian hackers (most likely) and the release by Assange who was simply motivated to keep Hillary from winning.
Hillary won the popular vote???? really? you believe that? it's already been shown that there were over 2 MILLION (at first look probably double that or more) ILLEGALLY cast votes for her. so take those away and she didn't even win the popular vote NOT THAT THAT MATTERS. and fake news? email server was fake? pedophile island was fake? IRS targeting conservative groups fake? yeah, she was JUST a victim of the vast alt-right conspiracy cause conservatives SOOO control mainstream media…..
The nearly 100% positive coverage by the mainstream media most certainly effected the election. As did the hundreds of paid Hillary trolls, the skewed polls as instructed by Podesta, the giving of debate questions to Hillary, etc.
Hillary's popular vote lead is from illegal aliens and felons. Remove the criminal vote and Americans roundly rejected the crook.
"…….The nearly 100% positive coverage by the mainstream media most certainly effected the election……"
No question that the main stream media fully supported Hillary, but that is not the point. That is their prerogative. I am talking about Russian interference in a democratic election.
"…….Hillary's popular vote lead is from illegal aliens and felons. Remove the criminal vote and Americans roundly rejected the crook……."
Hillary did win the popular vote which crosses a little wider section of the population than you are admitting. However, she was an incredibly bad candidate for President.
"That is their prerogative."
Do you have even a smidgen of comprehension regarding the constitutional power of the press? No wonder I wake up every morning inching myself (happily!) that Trump won.
It has already been proven at least 4 million votes for Clinton were from illegal invaders and those that voted more than once. Factor in the votes for Trump that were changed to Clinton by the voting machines and Trump has a landslide in popular vote as well as electoral vote. The people are finally fed up with socialist politics and Trump better hear our voices or he will be out.
"…….It has already been proven at least 4 million votes for Clinton were from illegal invaders and those that voted more than once….."
You want to provide a link on that?
"No question that the main stream media fully supported Hillary, but that is not the point. That is their prerogative. I am talking about Russian interference in a democratic election". . .
– craigsummers
. . .something the US would never do.
"…….something the US would never do……"
And I don't support US interfering in the elections of other countries. The only time I supported a coup was in agreement with Hillary Clinton who said the US should not have allowed the internationally recognized terrorist organization, Hamas, to be elected. She was right. That would have saved thousands of lives (with more to come). Instead, there has been three wars – and the Israeli right has become far more entrenched in power.
Above are examples of responsible journalism, even from a notoriously leftist newsite and the "Paper of Record".
What does Russia gain from having DT in the WH? DT based a large part of his campaign on the promise of restoring the strength of the US military. Hilliary did the opposite.
They have a high degree of confidence that Russian hackers were behind the DNC hack.
There's zero evidence the Wikileaks material came from Russian hackers, much less state-sponsored hackers.
To suggest there is no evidence just indicates that you are in total denial. Russia had good reasons to oppose Hillary since Hillary supported a no-fly zone while Trump has promised to work with Putin. In fact, there is considerable "evidence" to believe that Russia or Russian hackers were involved (If Russian intelligence did hack the DNC, the NSA would know, Snowden says http://bit.ly/2aurlJe by @RobertMackey).
Could it be possible there were Patriot/Rogue state actors within our security services releasing this info dating back to the Panama papers? All is not always as it seems.
"To suggest there is no evidence just indicates that you are in total denial. Russia had good reasons to oppose Hillary"
You just contradicted yourself, Russia had good reasons, sure, but those are suspicions, not evidence that there was Russian involvement in the Wikileaks dump.
You said : "But US intelligence didn't think this was fake at all. They have a high degree of confidence that Russian hackers were behind the DNC hack"
High degree of confidence ? Well golly molly, that seems like a strong basis for an aggressive foreign policy approach ! Where's the actual evidence ?
I keep seeing 'US intelligence says this, US intelligence says that' but it's a fucking empty sentence ! Where's the actual evidence ? I have no horse in this race, show me the evidence Russia was involved in the hacking and I'll be on board. But refuse to show some evidence and keep making me rely on blind trust towards US intelligence, and my doubts will only grow stronger. This shit is like Iraq and WMDs all over again, I ain't buying it unless there's proof this time
"…… I have no horse in this race, show me the evidence Russia was involved in the hacking and I'll be on board……I ain't buying it unless there's proof this time……."
I doubt that is true. In fact, I immediately think Russian-bot when you post a qualifier like "I have no horse in this race". Carefully note that I said "evidence", not proof. Proof takes enough evidence to establish that it is true – and takes time like who really shot down MH17 over Eastern Ukraine (Russian rebels established over a couple of years by a Dutch investigation); who bombed the aid convoy on its to Aleppo bring relief supplies (Russia); or that Russian troops were in eastern Ukraine (although denied by the Russian government for several years). I posted a link to Mackey's article for Jose which links to "Motherboard" for evidence of Russian involvement ("All Signs Point to Russia Being Behind the DNC Hack" http://motherboard.vice.com/read/all-signs-point-to-russia-being-behind-the-dnc-hack via @motherboard).
Say…. is that the same Vice that's headed by Obama's former Deputy Chief of Staff – Alyssa Mastromonaco????
>You just contradicted yourself, Russia had good reasons, sure, but those are suspicions, not evidence that there was Russian involvement in the Wikileaks dump.<
This is not a contradiction, just a silly non sequitur.
I have heard there is evidence yet i have not seen it. Does it actually exist or is this a ruse. When we are in total darkness nothing has color until light is let in.
"They have a high degree of confidence that Russian hackers were behind the DNC hack."
Just like they had a high degree of confidence that Iraq had "Weapons of Mass Destruction."®
Mackey is an obvious establishment shill. The Washington Post long ago degenerated into a sort of pravda for the (hopefully) outgoing regime. It's disgrace is sealed by this disgraceful article which could become an effective index for websites to trust, except of course they leaven the list with conspiracy theory jobs to defame the good ones on their shitlist.
I have little trust in Mackey. He is as politically motivated as anyone. None the less, it doesn't mean what he writes is wrong. It doesn't make Mackey a shill just because he agrees that Assange stepped over the line with his politically-motivated release of the emails. Mackey supported Hillary over Trump who (even as a Republican) I can safely say is an arrogant, lying ass-hole. Assange's release had nothing to do with exposing the truth – but was simply meant to influence the election.
"But US intelligence didn't think this was fake at all. They have a high degree of confidence that Russian hackers were behind the DNC hack" This is simply not true.
Can you please provide any evidence that the DNC was even "hacked"? Just because something was leaked, it doesn't mean it was hacked. In a similar vein, just because you believe something doesn't make it true.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Russia made a concerted effort to manipulate the outcome of the US election in Trump's favor. There are reams of evidence that the media promoting all of this nonsense colluded with the DNC to manipulate the outcome of the US election in Clinton's favor.
So add the 1st amendment to the lefts attacks on the 2nd amendment. Waa Waa, our establishment king/queen-making abilities have been called into question so let's smear the ways people get news around our control and seek to eliminate it. You guys are criminals and should be treated that way. There should be criminal penalties for those that seek to destroy our rights. Move forward with those plans and you will simply make yourself more irrelevant and then Out-of-business. Things have changed – wake up and become journalists again (if you ever really have been.)
Heinsohn argues that an excess in especially young adult male population predictably leads to social unrest, war and terrorism, as the "third and fourth sons" that find no prestigious positions in their existing societies rationalize their impetus to compete by religion or political ideology.
This is exactly why the US with an extreme surplus of adolescent males without perspective and economic future desperately looks for wars to get rid of those potential threats to society. That state propaganda media now tries to manufacture a consent for a possible more wars in the east (possible with Russia) while smearing alternative news sources is just natural. Also have a look at the new EU resolution to counter "Russian propaganda" and the "intrusion of Russian media" into the EU. According to the EU Russian news "undermine the very notion of objective information or ethical journalism," and one of its methods is to cast all other information "as biased or as an instrument of political power."
So, in other words, you don't want people engaging in forming their own opinions that are outside of the "mindset" you want. How very "Pravda" of you. . . . this is just more "sore loser" behavior by some leftists who want to discredit Trump's victory, and de-legitimize his win. We saw the left doing this, and still doing this with "recount" claims. . . .hopefully the states slap Clinton/Stein in the mouth and send them packing.
People getting "news" from The Washington Times, CNN, NY Times, MSNBC etc are getting fake news. I'm amazed that Hillary got more than 10% of votes, but considering the contributions of the press and entertainment I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Who is funding the McCarthyite attack site? Any connection through leftist "non-profits" to Soros? Where are they located? Are they connected to the DNC, Hillary's campaign, Democracy Alliance or any other group? Who are these "experts"? Is Bob Creamer or John Podesta involved? I guess any investigative reporter at The Washington Post is busy trying to come up with stories that fit a narrative to smear president-elect Trump.
Dig one layer below these efforts at war with Russia, open borders, gun grabs, recounts, riots, cop killings, global warming taxes, BLM radicals and you'll find Jews like Soros (real name Schwartz)
LOL! Dig one layer beneath Christianity and you'll find Jews like Jesus (real name Yeshua).
I think it was Gore Vidal who said that read the WaPo and the NY Times was like reading Pravda and Izvestia in the old days. If you read carefully and between the lines, it is possible to learn something which is true!
I stopped reading WaPo a few months prior to the election. They have become unhinged from reality
Russian propaganda?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that this is George Soros and DNC panty rant because they want a war with Russia and if their witch bitch Hillary was the new leader of the USA they would have had there war against Russia because their economy is in the toilet under Obama and what better way to cover it all up then WW3…..those involved in trying to save this republic have those that are involved in trashing it, aka Pizzagate, are now under surveillance and their is no place on Earth they can escape, we have drones, you know and their days are numbered all 70K of these pedophiles including Soros and HRC. Cyrus is now in command
Yes, it is ironic that the Democrats are now the party of nuclear war, McCarthyism, and unchecked imperialism. Notice how this will change when Trump takes office, suddenly liberals will all become peaceniks — simply because Trump has an 'R' next to his name. Pavlov's dog's is a free thinker when compared with modern day liberals.
after favoring Hillary and smearing Bernie with 19 unfavorable articles in 24 hours and letting Capehart off the hook for claiming Bernie lied about his civil rights involvement the Post is just a joke to me.
Only Pablum-heads read or believe anything published in mainstream media outlets.
Why tarnish the name of McCarthy? He was a good, courageous, devout man who fought against a real enemy.
Yes, he was demonized and smeared by the forces he sought to reveal and defeat. Now people deny that atheistic Totalitarianism exists.
What this article describes is more of what McCarthy was fighting. This is about controlling peoples' minds, souls with lying propaganda.
When Drudge links to a WaPo story, is he spreading Russian propaganda?
I hope that Anonomous will now heavily target the PropOrNot website, and that the scum behind it can be revealed.
Or WikiLeaks.
I didn't see any of the main stream media networks on this list – which would seem logical since they never said anything negative about Hillary and bashed Putin and Trump 24/7. But, it was obvious they were in the bag and propagandizing themselves. So… I guess the List provided by these guys is a backhanded admission that the MSM is definitely in the George Soros MoveOn globalist corner. And the list makers must be too.
Sounds to me like the Democrats, or George Soros, or the Clinton campaign, or all three, are trying to gin up public support for some sort of scheme to undo the results of the election. And blame it on Russia. Of course, the followers of the American left will buy this garbage hook line and sinker.
This has Soros written all over it. Backed by the slick one.
There are more communists in Manhattan than Moscow.
I'm so tired of america fighting we the people. I'm done with voting or poltics.
So the Post is reporting propaganda on their propaganda? Has anyone checked on the increase in the sale of tinfoil to the Post? I hear there is a tunnel from Area 51 under the Post? Anyone, Buehler
Propornot did us all a public service by compiling and posting the list. I'm enjoying it immensely.
Truthdig is not a Russian propoganda website. How ridiculous.
RT may be, at times, but it also offer some of the best news shows out there.
Yes, of course. The preposterous nature of the story goes without saying, but it's surely enough to snooker the Democrats and that's really the only purpose.
There seems to be a divide at The Intercept with some authors running with the Fake News meme in the apparent hope that The Intercept will be welcomed into the mainstream media. Mr. Greenwald appears to be resisting this trend. It is difficult to see him become a willing mouthpiece for power, and so he probably prefers The Intercept remain part of the Fake News, alternative media.
The media manufactures consent. Otherwise democracy collapses into feuding factions. The internet has slowly eroded the role of the media, however. In the past election, the mainstream media universally endorsed Mars. Clinton and it made no difference. After the shocking election of Mr. Trump, the mainstream media suddenly realized it had become impotent and no longer could play its role as the shaper of public opinion. Surprised, it looked around and saw a host of other information outlets which people were accessing over the internet.
Can they smother Fake News using an enemies list? I hope so, since a competing cacophony of lies is going to make the United States ungovernable. But I fear the simple days of the single 'Big Lie' narrative as disseminated by the mainstream media are over. However, here is my battle plan, if they are interested.
Merely blocking the fake news sites will create kick-back and probably only increase the popularity of those sites as they shift to new venues to avoid the blocks. So it is better to simply filter those sites, allowing people to see the harmless parts and selectively blocking those which are dangerous. Or better yet, don't filter but merely make the controversial stuff more difficult to access. People are lazy and won't bother to access an article if it is buried well down on a web page. A few fanatics may make the extra clicks, but they are a lost cause anyway. There will always be a few nut cases in any society. The main goal is to prevent them from influencing others, leading to the election of somebody like Mr. Trump. If they can be confined to their own walled gardens, they are relatively harmless. So place people into fenced Facebook pens, and make Facebook the disseminator of mainstream news. Other sites will still exist, but be too difficult to access for the average person to bother, since a password and biometric verification will be needed to reach them.
Mar. Clinton should be Mrs. Clinton – I don't actually believe she is from Mars, although I concede I have no definitive proof.
One man's fake news being another man's freedom of Facebook speech might end up in the Supreme Court, Duce, so it's probably a good thing Mr. Trump soon gets to stack it with his judges – and can then build his fenced pens, or walls or whatever.
Facebook, as a private entity, can censor on the government's behalf without raising any first amendment issues. In return, they will be given a monopoly as the gateway to the internet. It's a win-win.
Monopoly on the Internet
And with their Monopoly, they should be given or allowed to decide who goes to jail and who gets the Get-Out-Of-Jail-For-Free card.
I heard WaPo is first in line. ;)
… of course, you do realise you have described yourself as a fanatic and a nutcase in your post BM … and you have described everyone who has bothered to read this far (and click on the comments section) as a fanatic an nutcase.
… that does not make sense
… that does not make sense
I don't quite follow you. Why can't everyone be a nutcase?
A shell game of nutcases.
Thank you. Maybe an implicit assumption we make is that the Washington Post is a "real" news source. It's not, and this kindof story is now so unsurprising, it's becoming not newsworthy. Hopefully more people will realize the WashPost is not news. So much of their phony criticism is pure projection.
The only reason my friends and others post on the post rag is to piss them off. It has been known for decades about the leftist leanings of this 3rd. World propaganda septic tank.
Fascists of the Progressive Left Worriers Against The People …
This is a bunch of Whining Weenie's and that dear is a BAD ding on Weenie's world wide.
These Sniffling " safety zone " Haters crawl from their Mama's couch to troll the American people trying to scare the " stupid and gullible " among us.
Well I am not fooled.
Hmmn I looked at the hyperlink to the Twitter page of BuzzFeed's Sheera Frenkel…I don't see a Tweet by her with that specific position as claimed in the article. Instead, it's post by Trevor Timm. Let's stick to facts here.
McCarthy was right about communists infiltrating our government back then…
Decades later, Obama is the result of ignoring his warnings.
It's simple, PropOrNot is the CIA or the State Department. There's no mystery here. The public needs to be wary of this 'fake news' smokescreen that's being floated around. It's nothing more than the door to censorship being opened. Fake news has been around since the written word was first laid down. This is why a free press armed with ACTUAL journalists is so important to society.. well, that and an educated populace. It's up to us to figure out if news is fake or not.. not fucking Zuckerberg or Google (for those of you who still use those shitty sites), or the CIA or the State Department.
And to those who think we can still be scared by this Russian under every bed thing (I'm looking at you CIA/State Department)… please. Stop it already. The United States will lose it's hegemony on the world because it's run by a bunch of narrow minded ultra-Capitalist oligarch monkeys. We're Rome in it's final days. Starting WWIII isn't gonna save us.
Indeed, what happened here is the essence of fake news. The Post story served the agendas of many factions: those who want to believe Putin stole the election from Hillary Clinton; those who want to believe that the internet and social media are a grave menace that needs to be controlled, in contrast to the objective truth which reliable old media outlets once issued; those who want a resurrection of the Cold War. So those who saw tweets and Facebook posts promoting this Post story instantly clicked and shared and promoted the story without an iota of critical thought or examination of whether the claims were true, because they wanted the claims to be true. That behavior included countless journalists.
Here's another faction you didn't cite.
Perhaps I'm the only one in this faction.
This faction is the faction which believes Donald Trump will bring death and suffering to the world — not only in his expressed policies like torture, reprisal killings, continued denial of global warming, and the injudicious use of the US military for vengeance and intimidation, but also in his open support for openly repressive regimes like Russia and strongmen regimes around the world.
Further, as a member of this faction, I don't believe that a man as deficient in empathy and ethics as Trump has shown sufficient responsibility to be allowed anywhere near State power … particularly if unproved but repeated assertions of collaboration with Russian oligarchs and Russian State security have even a drop of accuracy.
Finally, if your political inclinations demand evidence for your slanders thrown with impunity at Clinton and her staff, produce that evidence IN AN OPEN FORUM like a US court of law. Wikileaks is neither impartial, credible, nor demonstrably balanced in its presentation of stolen documents.
Salute the moral leper Donald Trump if you want, but don't pretend that many dark and malignant forces don't give the sort of clandestine support to Trump that feeds these monsters of the right wing keyboard army … and perhaps the monsters of Russian oligarchy.
I'm sure I'll receive cries of "Clinton, Clinton, Clinton" but here's another fact.
The election is over.
The question now isn't "what to do about Clinton" but what to do about Trump. And until you have a better response to repugnant Trumpism than attributing an equally repugnant McCarthyism to opponents of Trumpism, you should allow these anti-Trump the exact same leeway you give Russia. (Which is to say, the unknown is unknown.)
Sure, Nazis have First Amendment rights.
Their intended victims — Muslims, Mexicans, and other minorities — also have rights.
Most especially they have a right to live without threat or being scapegoated by a ferocious regime fueled by bigotry and slanderous agendas.
I don't see anyone here denouncing the various spontaneous attacks upon religious and ethnic minorities since the election. I see absolutely no indication of restraint or tolerance or balance — either by commenters or the authors of this rhetorical defense of fake news in support of Trumpism.
If you want "critical thought," display some.
Four years of this sort of reflexive attack by scapegoating will get very, very rancid.
For this faction of one, it already is rancid and repugnant.
This swaggering bunch of drooling predators anxious to destroy civil government don't deserve the benefit of any doubt because they have never offered tolerance or respect for anything other than their own gluttonous tribe of fascists and predatory capitalists.
When you feed and nurture the wolves, they only get stronger.
You're whining about Trump bringing torture back into the world…
While Obama sings the praises of Fidel Castro at his death????
The true Nazis are the cowardly Fascist scum that hide their identities within PropOrNot. The war profiteers the same disgusting, power crazy, greedy, selfish sociopaths that made a criminal empire out of the US Government. The same scum that falsified,and self perpetuated the War on Terror so that their arms companies could profit from the deaths of millions, and at the expense of the US tax payer. These are the true Fascists, and those that need to be tried for treason. The same scum that has no respect for democracy. The very same fraudsters that created the banking crisis, and who have murdered millions of innocent people in Iraq, Yemen, Syria, and Afghanistan. Trump should jail them all for their war crimes, corruption and treason. The war against the political elite, and war profiteers, and their corrupt mass media must now be the 2nd phase of destroying these criminals.
.. and your opinion on the 'scum' who just settled a lawsuit by agreeing to pay 25,000,000 in restitution for 'fraud'??
They also supported, and still do, actual Nazi battalions in the Ukraine coup that was staged two months before an election– yet have the audacity to call Trump a fascist.
Great. Another angry venting Hillary Clinton voter . Your angel from heaven lost. Get over it.
Trump and Putin respect each other. That means say bye bye to Obama's Cold War.
World Peace anybody? It is coming. But first Trump and Putin will join ranks in wiping ISIS off the map.
It's a really bad time to be a Jihadi. Good riddance Warmonger Obama. Good Riddance Hillary. And Good Riddance to your creation called ISIS.
Yeb. Bye bye to Obama and Hillary's cold war tactics. Good riddance to their war mongering ambitions, and their self perpetuating the never ending state of war. Goodbye to all the war profiteering, and misappropriation of tax payers money for the fake war on terror that's bankrupting America. Goodbye to all of their shitty trade pacts that would have cost millions of American jobs. Goodbye to the criminal enterprise government,the sewer of Washington and all of the corruption. Clean the sewer, press on with Brexit, finish the costly wars, end all of the trade pacts, and investigate the Clinton Foundation, and the war profiteers, and America will be great again.
"World Peace anybody? It is coming"
Someone's delusional lord, Kumbaya
Dear Blacks, Latinos & Gays
The Trumpinator
America: The Greatest Country on Earth
Well at least our educators are guiding their students on the importance of the peaceful transition of power ….oh wait:
"Liberalism itself has failed, and for a pretty good reason. It has been too often compromised by the people who represented it."
? Hunter S. Thompson
The real left revealing itself, and they can't deal with it.
"When ideology is your guide, you're bound to get lost. Ideology deludes, inspires dishonesty, and breeds fanaticism.
Facts, experience, and logic are much better at leading you to the truth. Truth, however, is not everyone's intended destination."
– Daniel J. Flynn, Intellectual Morons
Liberal left progressive, SJW snowflake reality check coming?
"Now let me tell you the critical significance of what you're seeing—within every single bit of red you see on this map, lies the largest army the world has ever known—tens-of-millions of American hunters who are nearly all ex-military soldiers with combat experience, and are not only heavily armed, but would take to the streets of their nation in an instant if called upon to do so by President Trump to save the their nation.
For anyone of you believing this couldn't possibly happen, you couldn't be more wrong—and America's own history proves it."
'Donald Trump Victory Averts World War III, But Starts American …'
That was a long winded way to say that you support tyranny, as long as that tyranny allows you to unseat candidates who don't share your political viewpoints. You sound mentally ill, like someone who would've been (ironically) perfectly at home in Soviet Russia. You're a scary dude, and it's good for the American people (who you seem to hate because they elected Trump) that you are a "faction of one", a lone nut who just spent his 15 minutes of fame making himself look dangerously unstable on the internet.
Ha ha. That was comedy, right?
Who is the real Fascist here, it is you and your panty rant to the dubious zombies that are so repugnant to the constitution and what it means to be an American and you twist it, to accepting a bunch of people that want to destroy the republic. Islamic terrorist have told you that the best way to take you down is thru breeding their own kind, in your land with your social programs, so in a few years, they can take advantage of democracy and become the 51% that vote in Sharia Law and ditch you flaming faggots once and for all.
Milton, Well written and I completely agree… but maybe a bit too early as those who felt like Trump directly spoke to their issues still see him as "their man".
IMO Trump did a good job acting in the manner he understands politicians are supposed to…
This is the first time I've read something non-Snowdon from Greenwald and I honestly expected better.
Now think, Mr. Milton
Who will be worse for the world, ISIS or Trump?
Q: Why did ISIS develop? A: Premature troop withdrawal from IRAQ under Obama and Clinton, plus anarchy in Libya courtesy of Secy Clinton
Q: Will it be good for our country to have open borders with Mexican Drug Lords coming and going at will? and massive importation of unvettable refugees from Terrorist countries? Will that cause any "death and suffering to our country?
Q: Did HRC's virtual meltdown on election night give you confidence in her ability to handle the stress you have to endure as President? Does her rarely reported foul mouth and lack of empathy to subordinates and Secret Service detail make her any less of a moral Leper? And speaking of Moral Leper, what did you think of Leper-in-Chief William Jefferson Clinton, who reset the bar for moral abuse in power? Or HRC using her office as a private slush fund while SOS?
Donald Trump is sometimes crude, sometimes adulterous, sometimes crass, sometimes bloviating, and never PC. But he has the interest AND energy and now the POWER to rejuvenate our country.
He is handling the transition with a cool efficiency that drives the Press crazy. And unlike the situation with Obama/Clinton, in which the Press looked away from and allowed massive corruption to take root, trust me Trump will be scrutinized like no other President before.
The Media has now by its own admission lost its independence and become an arm of the Left Wing. And that is why they do not report on anything unfavorable to left wing goals, or even fabricate to achieve those goals. That is why the mainstream media is on the downslide and has a low approval rate. and that is why the alternative media is beginning to take over as the place where people get their news. And that is why you have rags like the Washington Post panicking as in the article that has 0 journalistic merit trying to link any and all more objective news sources to the phantom Russians. It reminds me of that old movie "The Russians are coming, The Russians are coming."
Asylum,one of your patients is on the loose.
You are gonna need a big net for this blowhard.
Finally, someone with a little sense. Jesus Christ….
"Their intended victims — Muslims, Mexicans, and other minorities — also have rights.
"Most especially they have a right to live without threat or being scapegoated by a ferocious regime fueled by bigotry and slanderous agendas."
Your rant is composed of furious hyperbole vilifying those whom you hate, and euphemisms. "Muslims" is a code for foreign Moslems, and "Mexicans" is a code for Hispanic illegal aliens, neither of which group has "rights."
"I don't see anyone here denouncing the various spontaneous attacks upon religious and ethnic minorities since the election."
The "attacks" you cite never happened. They were hoaxes. However, the violent hate crimes committed against Trump supporters did happen. You are blind to the real hate crimes, because you support them.
"I see absolutely no indication of restraint or tolerance or balance — either by commenters or the authors of this rhetorical defense of fake news in support of 'Trumpism.'"
"If you want 'critical thought,' display some."
You're projecting like crazy. You're clearly a liar and a hater.
Why do you hate white people?
This new tactic to label those who are against the establishment as being covert Kremlin spies before the election. https://freedomfromconscience.wordpress.com/2016/09/15/232/ The powers-that-be had a setback when Hillary was defeated, as Trump at least appears libertarian on press freedom, but the media is probably enraged that their credibility was severely damaged by the election results. They appear to be lashing out now, what with all these stories of "fake news" but never forget that to the "mainstream" it may be that to question will be enough to be considered a spy or "fake."
The left wing commies in our system are blaming NEWS SITES that tell the truth that they are run by commies?? LMAO.
Thank GOD for Drudge and infowars and other right conservative websites telling us about you left wing commies and your plans to subvert this great country.
MUST also hate that the giant pedophile ring with John Podesra is being exposed . PIZZAGATE!
Wow, The Washington Post has turned into a Third World news source, not a trusted news source. It is now viewed as a political attack ad against conservatives. Just another liberal rag, suitable for bird cages only.
Total Globalist Neo-Con Bullshit… See what happens when the corporate fascists, the cia, and their government media lackeys try to steal the election from 100 million citizens armed with 275 million firearms and the US military who are all ready and waiting to respond at a moments notice. Feel lucky today? Go ahead, make our day….. punks!
Glenn Greenwald Rules!
Glenn Greenwald for Pulitzer Prize! Long overdue!
"To see how frivolous and even childish this group of anonymous cowards is – which the Post venerated into serious experts in order to peddle their story – just sample a couple of the recent tweets from this group"
While the content of the article is good, what does calling them "childish anonymous cowards" do? That's essentially the exact same name-calling political talk I've been trying to avoid by coming here.
OMG, this is insane!! Is this what any of us want really?? Service to your global elitist masters in hopes that they will accept you? You are nothing more than a tool, the great news men of the past would be ashamed, even those red ones. Castro's dead, let this idea die with him!!!!!!!!
"In other words, this blacklisting group of anonymous cowards – putative experts in the pages of The Washington Post – are actively pushing for Western governments to take punitive measures against the Russian government, and are speaking and smearing from an extreme ideological framework that the Post concealed from its readers."
If you manage to get finally Russia into a war on Eurpean grounds I hope you will be nuked as well!
Like to avoid it? Get rid of the devel, Geroge Soros!
"we cannot confirm or deny"
Sooo… NSA?
It is funny b/c they cannot even differentiate themselves from Russian-backers (or potentially someone even worse like China with THEIR censorship and hatred for Russia) – while they claim to "not censor" with the plugin that BLOCKS sites. That is censorship – maybe they should invest in a dictionary instead of a website. Then again, their Chinese-backers will probably find some new way to tell the USA how to run things. Like usual. Heck, we literally JUST seen China in the MSM news, making the SAME, EXACT claims that this PropOrNot group now advocates within WEEKS of each other!
This is SUCH a joke. Who will install potentially harmful software, from entities that wont even share who they are? Clearly THEIR privacy is okay, but to give others the privacy of staying out of their interests online, becomes the point in which these people draw the line.
Their "examples" are not even credible in the sense of being "Russian" or "Russian supporters". It is news – plain and simple. They try to say that websites mess with sources and all too – when they themselves know that SO many people dont even check sources, let alone read entire articles. Anyone with half a brain can see through this desperate attempt to censor – and it is not even a partisan issue at this point. They are bashing websites just for believing, or showing facts about certain events, in which the "official" reports do not even make sense, or work in the realm of known-physics. It is ALL lumped up as "Russian propaganda". It is beginning to sound like Clinton during her race – everything was, "The Russians did it". Well, Hillary – the people are STILL waiting to hear about WHO these "17 different professional agencies" who have gone over your data dumps, let alone the millions of Americans who have shown your flat out crimes (not even including the thousands of Haitians who come to protest, peacefully but angrily, after robbing a charity (even the NY Times had to admit to her theft, it was so bad), then leaving an entire nation to die… while spending over 30 million dollars on traveling alone).
I think people are smart enough to understand what citations and sources are: and for those that need a browser plug in to tell them what is "propaganda or not" – are not concerned with actually finding the sources themselves. And many like myself, actually care about finding WHERE the data comes from. It would be different if this tool gave opinions, but it simply blocks – and censors. That leaves the user open to putting ALL their trust into a group who wont even identify themselves – even though they claim they are helping, are non-partisan and are obviously full of themselves. I surely would not trust data from that type of "source". Thats for sure.
Those of you wielding McCarthy's name as a club need to look into the Venona intercepts, and what has come out of the KGB's files post cold war. McCarthy was right, and nearly everyone on his list was, in fact, a Soviet agent, or a fellow traveler, and there was, in fact, a concerted effort to penetrate the American government with soviet agents.
Amazing how thoroughly his name has been besmirched by the left that, even now, 60 years later, his name is used unthinkingly as an adjective.
Why exactly is rehabbing McCarthy the theme of the day? Someone is certainly pushing the point. Seems like many of the posters here are working from a talking points memo… would they actually want to beatify McCarthy to legitimize all the 'ooooh, scary Russia is out to get us, and they are hiding behind every mailbox- suspect your neighbor, be vigilant against the red menace!' BS? Talk about Orwellian….
Russia got Hillary to sell them US uranium when she was Secretary of State. Hillary is a proven asset to Russia. If they support Trump, the reason is they want Trump's help to defeat Islamic terrorism. Something Hillary would never do. Romney was the one telling us that Russia was our greatest threat in 2012 and Obama and Hillary told him the 1980's called and they wanted their foreign policy back. Now the media and the Democrats are siding with Romney.
Thank god Trump won.
Mr. Greenwald
I haven't visited any of these sites so I cannot comment on what they publish, but it's clear that Russia and the Soviet Union use disinformation to influence public opinion – and they have a long history of using disinformation campaigns for propaganda purposes. What gives PropOrNot the credibility to accuse outlets of spreading Russian disinformation to influence an American election is the very real probability that Russia hacked the DNC and provided the hacked emails to WikiLeaks (See Mackey's article at the Intercept, for example). US intelligence believes with a "high degree of confidence" that Russia was behind the hacking of the DNC emails. According to Edward Snowden, the US has the capability of identifying the hackers. Trump was clearly supported by the Russian government and their state-operated media outlets like RT and Sputnik. The New York Times recently featured an article on Russian propaganda campaigns to influence public opinion. Much of the article focuses on European experiences with Russian propaganda. According to the New York Times. . .
"……"The dynamic is always the same: It originates somewhere in Russia, on Russia state media sites, or different websites or somewhere in that kind of context," said Anders Lindberg, a Swedish journalist and lawyer……."Then the fake document becomes the source of a news story distributed on far-left or far-right-wing websites," he said. "Those who rely on those sites for news link to the story, and it spreads. Nobody can say where they come from, but they end up as key issues in a security policy decision."……." – craigsummers
The post lightly [edited] for accuracy:
"Mr. Greenwald
I haven't visited any of these sites so I cannot [know what I am talking about,] but it's clear that [the MSM and the US] use disinformation to influence public opinion, and [I] have a long history of [mindlessly regurgitating that] disinformation. Wh[ile] PropOrNot [has no] credibility, [I'm still] sp[outing the] disinformation that Russia hacked the DNC and provided the hacked emails to WikiLeaks (See [my other fact-free claims] at the Intercept, for example). [US Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told Congress that US intel agencies have no idea who] was behind the hacking of the DNC emails. According to Edward Snowden, the US has the capability of identifying the hackers, [and yet hasn't identified the Russians]. Trump was clearly supported by [both me] and their state-operated media outlets like RT and Sputnik, [so that proves nothing, either.
Facts and reason just don't matter to me.] The New York Times recently featured an[other] article [demonstrating how US] propaganda campaigns to influence public opinion [work on me]:
". . .The dynamic is always the same: It originates somewhere in [the MSM or some other] state media sites, or different websites or somewhere in that kind of context. Then the fake document [WMD in Iraq, Russian hacked the DNC, etc.] becomes the source of an [immutable belief for] those who rely on those sites for news link to the story, and it spreads. Nobody can say where they come from, but [stupid twits always fall for it]." "
Nailed it…
If you are getting your news from WaPo, NYT, and other liberal sources then you get what you deserve… the lie, the whole lie and nothing but the lie. Ref: see published articles on Trump losing from each of these rags.
WP is a fake news site.
Propornot is a hoax
it's an anagram for Porno Port
Correct, and its fake, false news, no doubt, from those that enjoy spirit cooking, children in hot tubs, and the Lolita Express. Others behind this disgusting attempt to create and spread misinformation will no doubt include George Soros and the war profiteers, and corporate tax cheats that have bankrupted America. These evil scum have no respect for democracy, and Trump must have them all investigated by the FBI, and jailed for treason.
PropOrNot is
Pro Porno T.
I'm guessing that's a big T …
i played with it for a bit and couldnt handle the T
WAPPO subconciously wants to get into the PORN Thing?
Getting awfully tired of George Soros and his attempts at thwarting the free Press he can't control.
We dumped our online subscription to the Washington Post more than a year ago because it was a worthless rag failing to provide credible information on topics which interested us. Ever since, we get an email from the Post at least once a week begging us to subscribe again at ridiculously cheap rates.
The Post is like a very old hooker chasing sailors demanding they buy her wares.
If the Russians were behind any of this, Chainsaw would know.
"because the kind of folks who make propaganda for brutal authoritarian oligarchies are often involved in a wide range of bad business."
Poop farming.
New age cymbal orchestras.
Mud gliding.
chills man, chills.
My Comment was Immediately deleted
"Who exactly is behind PropOrNot, where it gets its funding and whether or not it is tied to any governments is a complete mystery".
Not So Much. Soros is in Overdrive at this time, so Funding? Check. This is by the book, Psy-Op /Commi 101. For folks who know about all this crap: No brainer. For most Americans- Clue less. This will baffle them with B S.
Only an alleged pedophile publisher like Jeff Bezos would allow this type of garbage to be published in the WaPo. Just a rumor I heard Harry Reid propogating. Funny how he hasn't yet been arrested for child molestation. Tic, toc, Harry. Tic, toc.
lol hilarious. The race card is worn out, so now it's the "fake news" card. They listed drudge? Really? He links to sites from all sides. What's that got to do with Russia? Answer: nothing.
Ben & Glenn never heard of you guys before, but this was well done. The Washington Post article by comparison is written like a childish conspiracy blog. WaPo has nothing more than a tabloid toy for Jeff Bezos these days.
McCarthy was right, as indicated in the Venona Papers released after the fall of the Soviet Union.
TRUTH…..the new Hate Speech. "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell
I read the WaPo story through the Drudge link. I thought it was great that Drudge gave it exposure because the story damns itself and shows Bezos's agenda. Thanks Ben & Glenn for the full exposé!
The Propornot.com website is owned and registered by Google.
It first appeared on Nov 9, 2016, one day after the election, as shown by the WayBack Machine, which snapshotted it on the 16th, 19th, 25th and twice on the 26th.
Twitter, Facebook and Google decided that Hillary needed help during the campaign and began engaging in censorship of posts and videos which were not complimentary to her. Shadow banning or deleting posts, or even accounts was common on Facebook and Twitter, while YouTube activated gangs of SJW's to patrol its videos and mark or even change those that Google disagreed with. The result was the videos unfavorable to Hillary were demonetized, deleted and/or the account was deleted.
Now these champions of Left Wing orthodoxy have combined forces to censor the local web sites by creating a private news aggregation site that the major outlets use to funnel "news" to their local subsidiaries in order to control the narrative locally as well.
:~$ nslookup propornot.com
Server: 127.0.1.1
Address: 127.0.1.1#53
Non-authoritative answer:
Name: propornot.com
Address: 184.108.40.206
Name: propornot.com
Address: 18.104.22.168
Name: propornot.com
Address: 18.104.22.168
Name: propornot.com
Address: 188.8.131.52
[email protected]:~$ whois 184.108.40.206
# ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
# available at: https://www.arin.net/whois_tou.html
# If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
# https://www.arin.net/public/whoisinaccuracy/index.xhtml
# The following results may also be obtained via:
# https://whois.arin.net/rest/nets;q=188.8.131.52?showDetails=true&showARIN=false&showNonArinTopLevelNet=false&ext=netref2
NetRange: 126.96.36.199 – 18.104.22.168
NetName: GOOGLE
NetHandle: NET-216-239-32-0-1
Parent: NET216 (NET-216-0-0-0-0)
NetType: Direct Allocation
Organization: Google Inc. (GOGL)
RegDate: 2000-11-22
Updated: 2012-02-24
Ref: https://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-216-239-32-0-1
OrgName: Google Inc.
OrgId: GOGL
Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
City: Mountain View
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 94043
Country: US
RegDate: 2000-03-30
Updated: 2015-11-06
Ref: https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/GOGL
OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE5250-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Abuse
OrgAbusePhone: +1-650-253-0000
OrgAbuseEmail: [email protected]
OrgAbuseRef: https://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/ABUSE5250-ARIN
OrgTechHandle: ZG39-ARIN
OrgTechName: Google Inc
OrgTechPhone: +1-650-253-0000
OrgTechEmail: [email protected]
OrgTechRef: https://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/ZG39-ARIN
RTechHandle: ZG39-ARIN
RTechName: Google Inc
RTechPhone: +1-650-253-0000
RTechEmail: [email protected]
RTechRef: https://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/ZG39-ARIN
The elite know that the gig is almost up and, therefore, must throw the hail Mary of political subterfuge. This includes the "fake news" propaganda, the "Russian hack" propaganda, the "#Pizzagate is Fake" propaganda, the attempt to put in enough fake votes after the fact to change the ballot in three states effort, the Soros paid professional -Trump demonstrations and riots, and other, even more nefarious deeds. And how did "they" co-opt Jill Stein, who thought Hillary was dangerous???
The website is another Sorostitute stooge.
Why isn't anyone reporting on the obvious ties between Jeff Bezos and the Washington Post? He didn't give marching orders, he just built up a culture that pushes the narrative that keeps his profit margins on the tech side safe. Trump will take away his outsourced labor. People underestimate the tech giants. Watch Zuck run against Trump in 2020. May God have mercy.
Ever since Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Compost three years ago, the paper has gone completely and extremely leftist. It's a propaganda rag now that makes stuff up as they go. They've become irrelevant, particularly after their antics during this past Presidential election. Katharine Graham must be rolling in her grave over the damage this Bozo Bezos has done to her newspaper…
The corrupt MSM is anchored by the pathetic Washington Post.
Is it any surprise that the WAPO is fascist? All socialists end up being fascist on some level.
More lies from the communist left. They are trying to spread hate and suspicion with there lies to steal the election in a recount. Democrats excel at finding boxes of votes out of midair and graveyards during recounts.
They are shutting down access to the net with any Pizza and gate discussion groups. Gab.ai is down…
This is censorship to protect evil.
I happen to know that this website is run by Jayson Blair, Van Jones, Donna Brazille, George Will and Linda Ronstadt, and is paid for by Soros money laundered through the Clinton Foundation, with Anthony Weiner as middleman.
My sources? We don't need no sting sources!
Sounds like CBS news and Dan Rather or remember Janet Cooke, from The Washington Post itself.
Cooke gained fame when she published a story, "Jimmy's World," in September 1980 about an 8-year-old heroin addict in Washington, D.C.
The story provided a detailed account of Jimmy's daily life, quotes from him, his mother, his drug supplier… and his tragic aspirations to be a drug dealer.
The story created a flood of sympathy among readers, culminating in an unsuccessful police search for the boy.
Cooke was awarded with the Pulitzer Prize in 1981…. then admitted the whole thing was fake.
The Washington Post returned the prize and offered a public apology.
Cooke later resigned. Years after, she and her former boyfriend Mike Sagar sold their story to Tri-Star Pictures for a reported $1.6 million.
So, work for Washington Post, make up entire "news" stories. Win Pulitzer Prize and then sell your own repugnant story for 1.6 million.
I believe in freedom of the press but there should be prison terms for this behavior such as in subverting the public trust. News media types should have to sign an oath or pledge for honesty in reporting. These flagrant abuses are the full definition of criminal.
One thing I know for sure is never believe the Washington Post.
They are just part of of the propaganda wing of the Democrat Party.
The year has been just pathetic for the Washington Post, lies, fake stories, fake polls, constant smearing of Donald Trump.
The Post hides behind the 1st amendment . Cowards, all of them.
Well well well, they used that stupid way overused emoji (????) on one of their "queefs". That makes them fake news, not the sites they're slandering. >_>
Why get your bowels in an uproar. If they have libelled you, sue them. A couple of heavy duty law suits is all that is needed.
Who gives a rat's rectum what the Washington Post says? Just another member of the MSM that's been shown to totally irrelevant.
The Washington Post is still around. For all practical purposes that organization has been on life support since November 8th. Everyone knows the National Inquirer has more credibility than the Post and NY Times
Final desperate flailings from a drowning leftist rag. Bye,bye Post. You won't be missed.
No proof has been provided for any Russian connection with the websites on the PropOrNot black list. Some of the articles on these websites may be congruent with the views of the Russian government, but this doesn't mean they are Russian propaganda sites in any meaningful sense of the term.
The only useful idiots in this saga are Timberg and his editors.
Anyone on here know how I can delete my online account I have with the Washington Post (I don't have a subscription to the paper, merely an account to make comments with)? I refuse to give them anymore of my internet traffic.
Wonderful article, by the way.
You can blacklist it in your router settings.
1. log in and "correct" all your information
2. if they have your credit card number, "correct it"
only after having corrected your account should you make an attempt to delete it if possible, might not be possible. after corrections, wont matter
Nothing surprising about the WaPo latching on to this. If fits their agenda and worldview. They've learned nothing.
The article is another glaring evidence, the WaPo is part of NATO's Secret Armies ( Gladio-style ).
"The main function of the Gladio-style groups, in the absence of Soviet invasion, seems to have been to discredit left-wing groups and politicians through the use of "the strategy of tension," including false-flag terrorism.
"The strategy of tension is a concept for control and manipulation of public opinion through the use of fear, propaganda, agents provacateurs, terrorism, etc. The aim was to instill fear into the populace while framing communist and left-wing political opponents for terrorist atrocities."
The liberal Left be so desperate?
What has been left out of this article is that in a little known cost cutting move a couple of years ago, the WaPo outsourced both its hard news and editorial divisions to the Annual Staff at nearby Madison High School.
where are my posts?
The WaPo was a fairly solid center-left paper just a couple years ago. They went off the rails this year.
Mine too? It's a mystery.
Bezos controls the Post. Amazon AWS has $600 million contract for Cloud Services to CIA, NSA and all 15 other US intelligence agencies. The Post, like Google, Facebook, Verizon, Yahoo, et al are all co-opted. Faux 'journalists' like the Post's Craig Timber might as well be on Federal payroll. Journos like Glenn and Ben need to keep shining the bright light on phonies like Craig Timber and scams like Pro-porn-ot
The only shock is they didn't list The Intercept as one of the fake news sites.
I visit all sides – when I saw 'Naked Capitalism" I knew the WaPo has far worse problems as a propaganda site for someone (investigate!) than anyone else on the list.
Oh shut the hell up. Just becasue you dont agree with something doesnt mean it is "fake" news. Stop everyone using that term to dismiss anyone and everyone who doesnt agree with you.
Oh shut up. Just because you dont agree with something does not mean it is fake news.
Oh shut up.
Dear Ellen, [Arnold Schwarzenegger saying "that's the joke" goes here]
Ellen,….you have mental illness, you crazy old bird,……can you read English??, TZ is not saying what you clearly think he is , i feel you should try and reread his words and this time try and comprehend the meaning , he is making fun of the term fake news and saying that the Washington post is the most "fake news" out of all of them , he isn't saying he doesn't agree with anything, how do you read that into his words?…are you drunk?
The Intercept was not listed as fake news because they have been shilling for Hillary Clinton during the whole election season and trashing Trump. They also have been good little propagandists, spreading lies about Syria and the White Helmets, while memory-holing the US backed Nazi coup in the Ukraine. I am sure the Intercept is also holding very relevant information from Snowden that would embarrass liberals and Obama– so they earned their Orwellian exemption from the list.
Just more of our government disinformation to the dumbed down masses. It is sad when we have to go to Russian news to get the real story of what our government is doing in this world. What do you want to bet that this shady group of anonymous sleazeballs won't be censored on social media as 'fake' news. Anyone who disagrees with the disinformation spewed by those who are supposed to be serving us are of course either communists or terrorists. Take your pick as to which one you choose to be labeled as. I'm not a Trump fan but at least he's not selling us out to the highest pay for influence bidder…yet.
I was over at the website of these McCarthyite freaks, I saw how left wing websites I read are on their list – it isn't right.
They instruct people to "highlight the names of Russian propagandists with YYY", meaning blogs, websites, and individuals who post comments.
They did not directly explain what they meant by "highlight with YYY."
Apparently, they are instructing their trolls, to go on websites, and post messages where they see someone like me and say yyyOHyyy over and over.
But they don't spell it quit out. Also, the purpose of this, is not directly explained, but they say that it "helps track" those accused Russian propagandists – or useful idiots.
Examples of how to identify a Russian propagandist, or useful idiot, for example if they badmouth the USA, Israel, Democrats, Centrists, Bankers, or if they are for peace with the Iranians, etc.
The explain right away, "this is not McCarthyism".
Those who always claimed nobody important reads posts, are apparently, flat out wrong.
The reason for this is simple: these trolls rewrote the "coincidences" browser plugin. You know, the "echoes" one used by white supremacists to identify (((Jewish authors.)))
So is Greenwald finally going to wake up and realize that we dodged a huge bullet and elected the right person?
You assume this will stop when Trump is in. Why?
Trump and Clinton were both the wrong people to elect.
You don't understand. Trump will fit right in with the establishment. He's friends with the Clintons. He brags about bribing politicians. He's part of the elite. If anything, the greed and abuses of the establishment will become more blatant.
Holy shit that was a long article. I didn't read it.
Can it be that all the rumors swirling on line about international paedophile/blackmail rings are true? And the perpetrators know this change in administration cannot be blackmailed into silence? That the DOJ and FBI will no longer be able to cover for them? That this is a last ditch effort to premptively smear all those that will honestly report on the scandal if it eventually is exposed? Remember that the BBC knew of the perverse Jimmy Savile and covered for him. The NY Times and Slate have published articles that have opened the door to normalization of paedophilia. The Franklin savings and loan paedophile scandal of the late 80s went no where even though there were rumors of high ranking Republican involvement. The recent Epstein pardon island scandal was even a disgrace! The guy got a slap on the wrist and no one seems to think it was odd that Bill Clinton traveled to this guy's island many times!
I think there is something big going on behind the scenes and the hysteria from the establishment megaphone MSM is an indication of desperation. All they have left is a pathetic attempt to smear those that they cannot control.
Well said Biff.
Libbies …. delusions and "wet panty syndrpme". Too funny!
Take this psy-op and mix it with the recount in three states. They're trying to steal the election from Trump and accuse the Russians for everything.
am happily sharing this at fake-news central
The great news is that this Wapo article is a massive failure. Just read the comment and 90% of them pan this puff piece
CIA has been using the media as a PR firm for a while.
more likely "the CIA did it" to make it look like the Russians did it which lying hellary would have known about all along. Dumya had to know that WMD was a lying conjob.
This kind of smear campaign is the last ditch efforts of the discredited MainStream Media. Go have a look at the Wikileaks to see who is busy lying to the public. Yes, this includes the Wapo.
Thumbs Up
#pizzagate, everything else is cover.
Washington Post is being a comrade in the lefts move to communism. Tell a lie until the sheep believe. I find it funny that all these so called mainstream media are accusing all these new sources of news as fake news when the truth is, the mainstream media are the true leaders of the fake news. Wekileaks (sp?) documented this sad fact.
WP is pure, laughable, Soros funded bs. Thank you for the entertainment.
Man, this is ENTIRELY too long of an article.
what's this goldfish doing out of the tank?
All of it is too long?
You find it difficult to concentrate for anything longer than sound bites?
I needed it. After visiting PropOrNot, reading this article was like taking a long, hot bath to get the grime off of my body.
ADD's a bitch.
They're flinging poop looking for something (anything) that will stick. These losers have less than NO integrity or morals. WE DO NOT WANT THEM IN CHARGE.
"Working with the government to suppress stories, covering up election fraud in the ruling party and ruthlessly campaigning against the main US opposition leader, The New York Times has sentenced itself to wither away into irrelevance. Remembered only in history books as a relic of the Cold War, much like its sister newspaper Pravda of the Soviet Union. The New York Times R.I.P."
There has been no clear evidence that Russia hacked anything during the election. That was the Hillary campaign that came up with that garbage to hurt Trump during the election. Just like the left, they will lie or cheat to get their results…….
Some of the accused "Fake News" sites listed were the ones who got the story of the election right. While the WaPo, NYT, etc.. got it wrong or worse, played a game they thought they were winning but badly miscalculated. Their reaction is absolutely chilling. The ever louder drumbeat of a red-scare replaces dialog and competing points of view in public discourse with accusations and threats. Things are strange and getting stranger.
"The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them."
? Joseph Heller, Catch-22
Washington Com-Post has gone from bad to worse since the immature Beezos took over.
"Indeed, what happened here is the essence of fake news. The Post story served the agendas of many factions"
…In other words – the Post story IS *Propaganda* .
If we learned anything from the last decade, particularly this election cycle, is how deeply mired in propaganda our own "mainstream" western media outlets are – to the extent that a frightening majority of the population hyper-reflexively accepts it, mirroring the daily behavior of their role models on television. Even that unimportant percentage of us who see through the deceptive tactics seem hard pressed to state explicitly the reality that we ourselves are drowning in our own propaganda.
As one who makes a point of reading as many sides as I can about stories that interest me – I generally get my news from a variety of outlets. Those include RT, and while they certainly present the Russian point-of-view, and often somewhat sensationalist, I doubt that the ratio of propaganda to news would even be comparable to the insanity that is western mainstream outlets.
..So, when I read an article such as this, by an author such as Glenn whom I consider to be independently minded, analytically thorough, and accurately informed I am often left feeling that the point was made perfectly, while the conclusion was stated only indirectly.
Objectivity is becoming the greatest challenge of the misinformation age.
Bottom line: All that really matters? We kept the Socialists/Communists out of the White House!
Ben and Glenn Naked Capitalism, I'm sorry to say, bears no resemblance to the blog it was. Over the past few years it went from a sharp, insightful economics blog to one filled with conspiracy laden diatribes and fueled the top hatred of HRC. Anyway, I really don't know what to believe anymore – I would think you two would have some time familiarizing yourself with what your writing about. Instead I see you using Naked Capitalism as a prop to prove a point, sad.
The left survives and thrives on lies.
See "New Lies for Old", by Anatoliy Golytzen and you will understand how the left uses the lie.
See "New Lies for Old", by Anatoliy Golytzen and you will understand how the left uses the lie.
"disinformation campaigns" aimed at undermining the legitimacy of America's Electoral Process and the Electoral College – that is exactly what the DNC & Obama {through Homeland Security} did before the election implying hacked voting machines /are doing after the election. – blame Russia, imply ties between Trump & Russia, ties between Russia-Trump-WikiLeaks – mean while now that Trump has been elected the left is demeaning the Electoral College Process as a Relic of the past – outdated – should be done away with and worse – The real reason we have an Electoral College: to protect slave states :
There are even petitions being circulated urging Electoral College Electors to change their votes in favor of Clinton. as well as harassment and threats of violence against electors.
If Obama's Treasury Department {Jack Lew}, with instruction & aid from George Soros were to crash our already fragile economy early in 2017, the Dems would scream – "see we told you so" – Obama's "Brown Shirts" {Move on. Org., Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, the New Black Panthers, La Raza, CAIR} would take to the streets : Dems & RINO Repubs blame Trump, Conservatives, the Tea Party.
Since Trump won the White House earlier in November and then met with Obama in the White House, Obama has urged Americans to unite behind Trump, saying the president-elect is "pragmatic in that way and that can serve him well as long as he has got good people around him and he has a good sense of direction." – he does not mean it – he is going to continue living & working in Washington D.C. – keeping an eye on his legacy – watch for Michelle to be more :political" also. Every Sunday News Show will be asking his "opinion" WEEKLY. {guess Al Sharpton is out of a job – maybe he can go back & be an FBI informent} Obama is a "Highly Trained" Community Organizer {Rabble-Rouser} he is well organized & well funded. George Soros is the Money Man, Obama's "Brown Shirts" {Move on. Org., Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, the New Black Panthers, La Raza, CAIR, the Communist Party},all bought and paid for by George Soros and Organized Labor, organized by Jarrett, Ayers, & Dohrn, approved by Obama & Clinton, take to the streets – their "Free Speech" & "Peaceful" protests.
Then comes Obama's coup de gras ::::: Obama, Holder to lead post-Trump redistricting campaign
The former attorney general heads up a new Democratic effort to challenge the GOP's supremacy in state legislatures and the U.S. House ::::: one party rule :::::
Click here: Obama To Take On Resdistricting In Post-Presidency Project With Eric Holder
I take issue against your stance against RT as an agent of the Kremlin.
Sure, I know the stories of journalists walking off the set, but you referenced one of the people in your article as one of the good guys.
The shows that I watch:
Lee Camp, host of Redacted Tonight said that the show isn't exactly state-owned but privately funded. I'm not going to post RT-linked propaganda. But read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Camp_(comedian).
Christopher Hedges, On Contact – (yeah, of Truthdig fame): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges.
Thom Hartmann – has a more storied history than I knew, other than Air America and his Brunch w/Bernie weekly shows that aired for at least six years in the mid-2000s.
Please explain why AP reporter Matt Lee defends correspondent Chichikyan's questions , more than once.
I cannot pull up her background, but here is some questionable behavior by our administration's State Dept Briefers.
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/state-dept-calls-out-rt-reporter-working-russian-govt/ min: 1.40
00:05 (or so).
2015 – (only 2:17)
Appreciate all sides to a story.
Talk about free advertising…
Just counterproductive.
And besides, Drudge is an aggregate, so this blacklist is a real boon to Drudge advertisors across their swath.
But what can one expect from an information source that was so very sure Hillary would win, sound judgement?
Stupid, just…stupid.
All of the media is in the hands of just six megacorporations. Perhaps 'Draining the Swamp' should include breaking them up.
Get the built in sanctions against small businesses out of the way(regulations) and small business will erode the power of those large corporations. It's the suppression of small business that is the central purpose of onerous regulation. It's easier for a central government to deal with a few large entities than millions of smaller ones.
Their Chrome extension is not open source. There is no author website given just an email address.
This is inline with the shadiest of extensions.
While the extension may be safe now, down the road it could easily be updated to spy on users or worse.
So typical of the Left. Cry wolf too many times and see what happens.
Here's the rub. What's wrong with Russia? It doesn't say I'm unworthy like a religion, it doesn't tax me like Washington. For the most part, Russia leaves me alone. So does North Korea, so does Iran, and Saddam's Iraq never cost me a dime.
I don't love and hate because I'm told to do so.
Thinking, and being – it's what's for dinner.
Nothing is real, strawberry fields forever.
Nothing is wrong in the sense that these fools project. They create a fictions opens to keep the war machine going.
"They create fiction to keep the war machine going."
At first blush, the sites and behavior of ProporNot sounds like Hillary campaign former staff members upset by the outcome of the election and taking it out on the liberal wing of the Sanders backers.
The incessant Red Accusations were an integral part of HRC strategy. Does anyone know if Sanders backers were known to not show up at the poles for HRC?
Give Trump a chance. "Maybe", Trump will continue to expand McCarthyism, rather than stop it, as you seem to assume.
As I seem to assume???
Not sure how you come to that conclusion. I said nothing about Trump or McCarthyism.
In fact, just the opposite. I think it's remnants of the Clinton campaign and most likely DNC affiliates.
Perhaps you should learn to read before making comments about others.
Senior editor: Joy Reid
Actually, I had her pegged for the twitter activity. Especially the very juvenile one. ;)
Excellent article. I do remember how the early Civil Rights movement was attacked as being communist and Soviet inspired and lead. Watching the situation in Eastern Europe for the last few years, it was apparent to me that the Putin scare would reach the same proportions as the McCarthyism brilliantly exposed by Glenn Greenwald. And with it everything we saw with McCarthyism of the first Cold War. It would be a tool to smash dissenters to the establishment and characterize any criticism of the government and policies as traitorous and worthy of investigation and if needed jail time. Hillary Clinton in a pro-fracking speed accused the Russians of sponsoring anti-fracking protesters. Marcy Wheeler exposed an article in the NYTimes by "straight news reporters" of attributing anti-TPP protests as driven by Putin. I went to some big well known democratic sites, and it seems this odious article has inspired the most grandiose conspiracies and attacks. My favorite was that people concerned with a confrontation with Russia over a Syrian no-fly zone were useful idiots of Putin. In essence new McCarthyism over domestic issues and dissent has been re-born. And it won't go away as it has now become part of the DNA of the democratic party and most segments of the republican party. (McCains hatred of the Russians is going to give him a heart attack.)
We can look to the EU to see how our McCarthyism will evolve. Putin's name was constantly invoked to attack pro-Brexit supporters even though the Russians were quite clear that they didn't care and up to the British to decide. Major domestic European problems originate in the Kremlin. All those refugees in Europe? Putin created and weaponized them according to an article by Soros. Nothing about disastrous foreign policy and war decisions made by Western powers. And now the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has declared it is in an information war with Russia (no evidence cited) and claimed that the Kremlin "distort the truth, provoke doubt, divide the EU and its North American partners, paralyze the decision-making process, discredit the EU institutions and incite fear and uncertainty among EU citizens." In other words any divisive issue in the EU is a direct result of Russia's information wars. I haven't followed up to see if the EU will create their own version of HUAC, or if that will be up to member states.
After meeting with Obama this past month, and seeing her poll numbers diving, Mad Merkel decided to get on the Kremlin bandwagon, accusing Russia of influences the election. Claiming that Russian bots are "liking" AFD in order to make AFD seem more likeable. Of course there is "fake " news, documenting the rapes on German women. More "fake" news on documented increases in crime by these immigrants. But to Mad Merkel, it's all fake! All done by Russia. These globalists are getting desperate, and it isn't working. They will be jailing people soon.
Migrants don't rape because they're brown
The Washing post, and the New Your Times, have sunk so low, they are now no more than a propaganda arm of the DNC and rife with misinformation, lies, and should be treated as such. Their new names, The Washington Onion, and the New York Slimes. Worthless rags.
But wait, the worthless rags make great cage liners for my bird!
Hey I know, let's write their name over and over with YYY! Then we can track them! YYYWashington PostYYY! YYYWashington PostYYY! Gotcha!
The elitists and globalists are running scared folks. This will quickly morph into actual killings of those that oppose them. My suggestion is choose one globalist and focus on destroying them, their families, and their businesses.
Here is some more fake news:
The Huns are coming, the Russians are coming, the North Koreans are coming, the North Vietnamese are coming, the Muslims are coming, and the Russians are coming again…
Because if something was not coming the masses may start to focus on the criminals that are already here that have long ago purchased and gained control over all three branches of our state and federal governments, enabling psychopaths to both brain wash and oppress the masses and their children generation after generation.
The criminals in control would much prefer that as we enter our car we look in the backseat for a hidden Muslim, rather than than consider the fact that if we turn on our car radio our only talk radio listening choice is fact free right wing hosts spewing out sound bites of propaganda, which would have made Joseph Goebbels drool in envoy enough to fill Lake Tahoe?
You mean left wing not right wing right? Besides faux (fox) the rest are almost unarguably "left"
You obviously do not live in the Philadelphia market, or anywhere else in the US where talk radio is at least 90% right wing controlled.
Liberal radio lefties, can't seem to get their ideologies off the ground. Mostly DOA.
Poor fellow…that's just not fair, we need to have government intervene so that lefty talk radio gets 50/50 airtime. Or maybe you and your buddies could start a lefty talk radio station of your own. Since there's no real competition should be a breeze. Or better yet, you should start a petition to ban right wing talk radio since you dont agree with it. I bet ur buddy Joseph would be proud.
Ummm, who exactly is in charge of making YOU listen to rightwing talk radio? The government? The guy who supplies your tin-foil hats? Who?
Here's a plan: TURN OFF THE RADIO/TV. There, you're "safe" from the "propaganda." Easy peasy.
Oh, and Hillary STILL LOST.
LakeTahoe? Try Lake Mead!
Poor fellow – throwing the hail Mary I see with your nazi reference. You and your lefty buddies should pool your money together and start your own lefty talk radio station cuz that's never been tried before. Oh wait, that's right, lefty talk has been tried and it always fails with govt subsidized NPR being the only exception. Maybe you (and ur lefty buddies) should try to silence talk radio…ya know cuz you don't agree with what's being said.
Get it off your chest, sweetie. Losing an election is hard to accept and deal with when you've been lied to throughout the campaign by your own preferred propagandists. Find your safe space, grab some Play D'OH! and pet the puppy for awhile. You'll feel better.
For the past couple of weeks, I've been fairly focused on coming up with a way for people to help heal this country by fact checking and debunking fake news.
A couple of days ago, I thought that I would be able to unveil my plan by tonight. I've had to take a pause. There's been a major hiccup. As is the case with all plans to take over the universe, it's become more complex.
The WaPo article caused a stir. It contains a lot of very good information, but as I read further, checking what they were promoting, I became very uncomfortable. So I checked further.
Many thanks to Glen Greenwald and crew at the Intercept for picking up on my thoughts.
I still firmly believe that becoming active in debunking false posts is important. It's just gotten a bit more complicated. Who do you believe anymore? Has the Washington Post become part of Russia's propaganda arm? Talk about wanting to disrupt trust in our institutions. Shame on you WaPo.
Bozos has driven the WaPo into the very bottom of the MSM cesspool.
Even more disgraced than CNN, which is almost impossible.
Good work Jeffy boy. Please take your Amazon and stick it where the sun don't shine!
Ah, Marty Baron, the man that Hollywood painted as a hero for standing up to the Church. Plenty of propaganda to go around, I guess.
What amazes me are the ham-fisted methods these "journalists" use in their attempts to make us frightened of Big Bad Russia. That they actually persuade people with their bullshit is the scariest part.
Well, it is a little frightening when you consider in a close election that Russian propaganda and lies could make a difference. Other than that, Russia is not very frightening to the US. However, the Russians might be a little more scary to people in Eastern Ukraine or in Eastern Aleppo – and possibly within some countries of their sphere of influence. After all, quite a few countries in Eastern Europe beat a hasty path to NATO and the EU because they fully understood that after the collapse of the USSR, a passive Russia was not going to last.
Don't attach the name of a fine American like Joe McCarthy to this bunch. McCarthy worked of a list he got from the intelligence community. He was right on every accusations. When the KGB archives were opened that was proven. So stop using his name like it was the American equivalent of Hitler. It isn't. Not even close. He was a solid American besieged by the same biased press we live with today. He was Borked before Bork was.
It is FAR more likely that the Soros owned contingent has ties to the Russians. Aren't they the same people singing the praises of that mass murdered, Castro? But it's the right wing media that is operated by the Russians. Right. These people won't be satisfied with anything short of a civil war it seems.
Propornot sounds like a fake news site to me. They won't show their methodology behind these "facts" they present and all the members are anonymous lol
The more I read about the degenerate lame stream media the more I'm convinced that Trump has to master the double cross.
The Washington ComPost is now the KING of FAKE "news", surpassing CNN, in my opinion.
Tom Woods call your office, Glenn Greenwald is your next podcast interview:
"Basically, everyone who isn't comfortably within the centrist Hillary-Clinton/Jeb-Bush spectrum is guilty."
Wait just a second here. "Shoddy, lazy journalism"? I'm shocked….shocked I tell you.
LOL ProporNot the latest Soros propaganda organization that spreads FAKE news disinformation. These leftists are so transparent now. A tactic out of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.
Difference is McCarthy was right and quite above board, especially seeing what we are seeing now. These others continue to act as subversives.
I smell Soros money. Since the progressive left had a lock on mainstream media, and websites posted stories that weren't helpful to their world view, and it influenced the election, the quote "progressive powers that be" have declared war on Drudge and other websites that put out stories they find "inconvenient". Just like how they want to purge "fake news". Fact is in what the want to wipe out is news that exposes what the truth is. But people are wise to their ideas.
I have to agree that this is just the latest "new" proganda machine. I know for a fact that half of what were told about Russia is pure crap. Washington needs an enemy in order to justify its own existence, hopefully Trump can change that? I mean really think about it, Trump wants to befriend (cautiously) Russia and look who's screaming the loudest about it, the establishment war hawks who make money from war or the threat of war. Reminds me of the AP's humble beginnings, created during WWII by being the only group allowed to report news inside Germany to the world, provided it was all good (propoganda) news. Note to these McCartyites: Hillary lost because she's a criminal and those who did vote for her are unwitting criminals too. We are awake and we are paying attention. Attempts to tell us who is real and who is not are futile! Quit being sore losers and fade away, I don't think your gonna like the alternative.
Wow. So this is their next tactic of the failing leftist media, to attack every other news source as part of some conspiracy; a "misinformation campaign." The level of WaPo's desperation stinks like a high school gym locker.
And so it begins…we warned about Obama.
Now they'll try to take back the FAIR election. Funny it's only when Dems lose that they claim rigged elections.
The second I read that wikileaks (fact), and Ron Paul (moral integrity), were included, I knew it was fake.
Truth, peace and prosperity. Something the neocons, and the demicons, and certainly, the government cons want to avoid.
Be afraid everyone! At least until you spend the time to read the all the various leaks.
My guess? The IRS/Treasury/Fed Reserve is behind this list. This is a long list of opponents of taxation specifically due to how citizens earnings are being spent. Crony corporatism, endless warfare/murder, nepotism, payoffs, institutionalized welfare, and lets not forget world-wide banking fraud.
Demicons? You know that the "con" bit is short for conservative – so you're saying the neo conservatives and the democrat conservatives and the government conservatives …
Is is factually incorrect to call this tactic "McCarthyist".
Because McCarthy was actually right.
Probably the Clinton Crime Cartel has been Russian oligarchs' best friend, acting with Hillary in State Dept to permit their purchase of uranium mines in USA.
Of course those Clinton grifters are shielded by WaPo and leftist groups.
Yes, "protests too much" fits well on the CrookdClintonso Legacy machine. They are working on the "Legacy" so they can write some books and be oaid as authorities.
I hope the Clinton's (including Chelsea) are toast.
I hear that The Clinton Foundation donations have dried up now that the Queen of Chaos can't do the contributors any more "favors" (pay to play as detailed in "Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich" by Peter Schweizer).
Even if she DOES write a book everyone with a brain knows it will be nothing but LIES from cover to cover.
But here is how really desperate and ambitious Hillary is: she has approved, through her attorney, her involvement in the "recount" fiascos in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania!
This way she will be forced to concede to Donald J. Trump TWICE!!! Maybe the second time she can stay sober so she won't have to send her man servant, John Podesta, to do the deed for her.
L-O-S-E-R and L-I-A-R. That should be the title of Hillary Clinton's next book.
And regarding Truthdig….I have been reading Robert Scheer's website for several years now and throughout the election there were MANY pro-Hillary articles by Juan Cole, Robert Reich, Eugene Robinson and others, especially once Sanders lost the primary. It actually got to be a joke, their pleading and begging progressives to vote for Her Royal Highness.
In spite of these writers' diatribes against Trump, I would say 90% of the comments were against Hillary Clinton in one way or another and I noticed several people (progressives!) were vowing to vote for Trump as the ultimate FU to Clinton and the DNC.
It is not just "Republicans" who are fed up with the "establishment"!
Just an observation:
SEDTION.. Black's Law Dictionary 5th Ed.:
"Communication or agreement which has as its objective the stirring up of treason or lesser commotions, or the defamation of the government. …….
An insurrectionary movement tending towards treason, but wanting an overt act; attempts made by meetings or speeches, or by publication, to disturb the tranquility of the state."
Take heed, WAPO….
The Washington Post marginalized itself years ago. They censor posters, slant news stories and have fake users who post tons of liberal trash on the message boards. I haven't been back there or to Huffington Post for years because they are not credible, unbiased news sources.
I appreciate the left making a nice list for all of us freedom lovers to use – any site that makes this list means it is very effective against leftist socialism so I will make sure to add to my reading list. You will not silence us you scumbags!
rbis whole fake news thing is comical. It's the msm that has become the fake news. God I hope people aren't this stupid
This article blaming Russia for Criminal Hillary's loss is pure fiction of an hysterical quality. Article blames Russia for news that Hillary has bad health. Folks that news came from US Author Ed Klein who revealed Hillary has severe brain valve damage which causes her Grand Mal Seizures visible on youtube dot com and also causes her to faint without warning which she did in 2012 on the top floor of the 4 story State Dept. She hit her head in the fall. Bill was summoned and he had her flown from DC to a New York hospital where doctors revived her. State Dept lied and said Hillary fainted at home. It took 6 months for Hillary to recover from that episode and the doctors were not from Russia whose medicine expertise is 50 years behind the times according to my medical sources. This entire article is pure fiction atatcking Mother Russia who had nothing to do with 62 million voters rejecting Hildebeast's attempt to rule the world from Obama's White Mosque which needs an exorcism.
Russia Today and Daniel McAdams from the Ron Paul Institute respond to the accusations:
'Fake news' & Russian 'sophisticated propaganda machinery' trend spreads, picked up by media (Video: 9 mins)
Thanks for posting. Glad to see RT had a little fun with the story.
Agreed, it was great to see them in mocking mode.
Speaking of RT, here is a 30 minute video which is nearly all of Chris Hedges doing a special edition of On Contact reporting from Standing Rock by speaking directly with those who are "the front line voices" at Standing Rock.
Standing Rock Resistance
Thanks, Kitt. Really appreciated.
Amazon's Jeff Bezos has a $600M contract to run a cloud database for the CIA. How could you leave that out of your story? What else is The Washington Post going to be doing to help Bezos keep his CIA contract? That's the real story.
Bezos is a leftist media fascist and a hater of Trump-like adherence to America First. Bezos is part of some hazy Globalist coven . Remember it was Bezos and the Washington Post who hired/appointed 20 of the Washington Post staffers/researchers/reporters to actually be part of an anti-Trump brigade to try to dig up dirt on Trump. Tellingly – simultaneously the Post announced they had no desire to dig up dirt on or research Clinton.
The entire establishment media spent months and months shitting on trump non stop, but he still won.
So, basically what this tells us is that the establishment media no longer controls the narrative, the neocons and neoliberals no longer control the narrative. The people drown out CNN, MSNBC, FOX, they dont read the new york times or Washington post.
Instead, people watch some guy in his basement that has a webcam and really likes ron paul, or still believes that the revolution is coming and communism will prevail, or even a 4chan posting alt rightist who thinks Hitler is kawaii desu ne.
All those people have their biases too, but they legitimately believe in the insane stuff they believe in, they aren't being paid by a billionaire or corporation.
So, the old media is no longer relevant, trump winning proved this.
And they have gone insane, making lists, the idea that establishment is "real news" and everything else is some putinist "fake news" plot , calling on the fbi to round up anyone who is critical of america, capitalism, and never ending war.
this is the end game for the repeal of the Smith Mundt Modernization Act during Obama's watch, not coincidentally.
It used to be illegal to lie to the American public, but this sneaky little bill known as H.R.5736 enabled the disingenuous Press to throw around reckless rhetoric with ease as they sit in their well protected Ivory Towers. The people of the rapidly declining middle class has to face the consequences of animosity and hatred these deceitful soulless privileged class of people empowers and provides moral cover.
This list is just another lie that is perfectly legal in the bizarro world that the Elites (both parties) throw our way. Too bad for them we are wide awake now.
I think we are seeing a prelude to something bigger here such as we saw in Germany before the Nazis took over. Obama wasn't ordered to buy almost 3 billion hollow point rounds for nothing and the "conspiracy theory" ideas surrounding the proposed use for those have a lot more legs than this Washington Post story. I really do feel the US is headed to a very bad place. At least the heat is free there ;o)
Marty Baron and Craig Timberg are pedophiles, experts say.
Washington Post, You have met the propagandist and They is You!
Anyone who thinks Wikileaks acted with the interests of the American public in mind is sorely mistaken. The same can be said for Bierbart, Drudge and so many others who reprinted lies that couldn't pass the snopes test. Facts are facts and opinions, suppositions and innuendo are something else. I voted for Hillary. I would again. If you have any facts to show me that would pass the courtroom test, I would be happy to listen and if they bore up, I would change my mind. But in the last thirty years, Republicans have done their worst to destroy her, they have spent hundreds of millions towards investigations, and cannot seem to prove a damned thing that they could take to court. So all we are left with is a bunch old white men…..gossiping about a woman they really don't like but do envy.
That Assange guy. What a maroon. Could you share with us ordinary Americans a few of the most epic Wikileaks Snopes test fails.
so when drudge links to an article at the washington post, that's "russian propaganda" ?? what nonsense !
What is happening to the Post ? Is this part of the thrust of the Bezos empire with the paper being part of an overall business strategy ? It seems to strain the credibility of an already damaged media giant does it not ? What does Bob Woodward have to say ?
While I do not share WaPo's liberal leanings, it was always easy to ignore. The last several months though have seen a more blatant and shrill slant. Less mature, sort of like what we're getting from CNN as the journalists there get younger. I too wonder if this has something to do with Bezos but perhaps it's turnover among the editorial staff (outside of Bezos' direct oversight).
This is great!I've been looking for a list of dissident news sites for ages.
Thanks propornot
Haha. I was just thinking that! I'm going to get their plug-in specifically for that reason :)
Russia not the USA's enemy. Islam is the enemy of both the USA and Russia. Only Clinton/Obama/Kerry cannot figure that out.
Shared this truth telling article on their (WP) government worshiping news site. Thanks Greenwald and those at The Intercept, great work.
lttle jeffey bezos wubbing his wittle eyes wiff his wittle fists…"I WANT HIWOWY. I WANT HIWOWY OR I WIWW FIWER MY VEWWY BIG WOCKET!" the little sht will be gone in five years.
Amazing how the Fake New, projects almost in a propaganda style THAT other (none aligned journalist and News Papers) of promoting FAKE NEWS manufacturing.
One finger out, three fingers in.
Its the Three Fingers in which needs to be investigated.
FREEDOM OF THE PRESS is not "CENSORSHIP OF THE PRESS"
Band News Papers like, the Washington Post, the New York Times and others, as FAKE NEWS EVERYWHERE! Look at them now and then only to LAUGH at their Deceitful Comments, Fake News, and irrational opinions.
Do it now, admit it, they (the real FAKE NEWS MEDIA) are the problem.
Never Go Back except to Laugh!
This Is another offering from Soros World that seems to be designed to keep the attention of the snowflakes focused while the Clinton cult is dissolving and the minions are atomizing. Jill Stein now seems to be on the payroll pushing the recounts that will only keep people frantic and demanding an altered reality. You would think that anyone who can count to twenty without taking their shoes off would reject this BS but apparently there is an audience for this and some activists who can use it for their agenda.
Someone needs to call Putin and get his hackers on this right away.
I'm betting Propornot is a Soros-DNC enterprise. Assange likely already knows.
Its official
In some kind of crazy symmetry, the West has become the Soviet Union
Stalin kicked out the trotskyites and they all came here.Well,most.
The Russian Jewish Bolsheviks came to USA and bought up all the mass media. 94% liberal Jews who never attend a temple or synagogue but own all US English TV networks including Fox which shares ownership with a Saudi Muslim, most major magazines, newspapers, film and recording studios, all theaters, major book publishers, book and magazine distributors, control PBS, NEA and have a firm control of public discourse so will call you anti Muslim, anti gay, anti everything if u deviate from the words the Jews demand you say. Hillary a Hebrew posing as a Methodist said she hates Catholics and demand they change their doctrines to her views. Talk about chutzpah!!!
Book publishers for sure. I wanted to read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "200 Years Together", his best work according to Alek – a winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature. The book has been banned in English for decades – nowhere to be found on the web (a couple of chapters are out there).
This is a full frontal assault coming from the mind of Bezos, and is aimed at chaos to undermine the pending Trump presidency, and in line with what has come out of the Obama administration for 7.11 years.
Using the Post's own means and methods against them allows me to say that both PropNot and the WashPost appear to be CIA fronts.
Steven Bankler, CPA, is the registrar contact for propornot.net, propornot.org, propornot.us, which oddly redirects to "naked capitalism."
"As a forensic accountant, he was the sole investigative accountant providing expert tax and accounting services for the United States Senate Special Whitewater Committee.
In addition he was asked by the staff of United States Senate Banking Committee to review the various documents dealing with the audit of Swiss Banks, which involved looking for assets of the holocaust victims. Several of his suggestions were incorporated into Senator D'Amato's testimony before the House Banking Committee on December 11, 1996."
Huh. Perhaps someone would like to ask him if he is involved as the in propornot.com, since it be unusual for a site not to control the .com first. It happens, but unusual.
The WaPo does not coordinate it's articles. NPR just did a radio story in which they tracked down the source of many fake news sites to a man in Los Angeles. They sprung an unannounced home visit on him–hoping he'd be a Trump guy or Russian. It turned out he was a Democrat who did the fake news, at first, to prove that Trump supporters would very readily click on fake news. And, not Democrats. But, he discovered the traffic could make him money, so he then started selling advertising, making around $30k, a month. So much for the big Russian propaganda effort. He ran upwards of 10 or 15 fake news sites–all of which NPR tracked to him.
No, we were given the truth, and we are still receiving it. The truth will collapse the evil that has infiltrated our government. Watch God at work thru those that are His.
Proportion is a tool of the billionaire oligarchy; which owns th WaPo.
Ron Paul, are you kidding me?!?!?! You're wanting us to buy the line that the Ron Paul Institute is pimping disinformation and Russian propaganda? What the hell is wrong with you? At what point will you pull your heads out of your ass (that would be your giant collective ass) and realize that you've sold out your soul?
As journalists, you've long since crossed the line. You gave up truth and being unbiased the same time you sold your virginity. This is outright prostitution to the highest bidder. At this point, you're condemning Libertarians for simply believing in small government. That used to be called democracy. You may want to invest in a dictionary app. Or a literal dictionary, though I question (after reading your post) whether or not you have opposable thumbs.
This has to be a joke. I kept waiting for the punchline, or the byline from the Onion, but no, this is supposedly real journalism. It's a sad day indeed when this passes as a serious expose. How jealous of Alex Jones must you be, to rope in Ron Paul. You might as well insult the Pope.
Oh wait. You can't. He's on the DNC payroll.
Seriously, educate yourselves. Beyond CNN and the rest of the MSM. Surely you know how to use a computer. This isn't journalism. It's a senior in high school playing with photoshop. You can do better, and you should. So do that, and redeem yourself. Otherwise, this is the day that journalism died. Officially. Ready the dirge. The fatty-tissue challenged woman has sung.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
How about we clear up the use of the English language. To call Hillary Clinton a "centrist" politician or the Washington Post a "news" organization are gross mischaracterizations of their true nature. Clinton is a dedicated Stalinist totalitarian. The Post is nothing more than a progressive propaganda rag.
Is it really PropOrNot, and not BrockOrNot? Odd how Hillary's fake news machine (funded with several millions of dollars through David Brock's Correct The Record) continues to shield its phony Blue Nation Review and ShareBlue faux-news operations from any of these hit lists.
Seriously, everyone knows Wapo is 60% fake news by now very few articles with truth in them and most of them are fluffed with word soup to the point that facts are floating in a sea of propaganda and spin.
If you want to call yourself a real journalist and you work for outlets like WAPO report the facts without bias or word soup and let your readers form their own opinions.
If you want real raw journalism, … Drudge, Infowars, Breitbart are the tip of the spear, sure sometimes they get it slightly wrong, but they dont outright lie and try to brainwash you like WAPO / CNN do.
They are using the following material to support their claims: Watts's
report on this work, with colleagues Andrew Weisburd and J.M. Berger,
appeared on the national security online magazine War on the Rocks
this month under the headline "Trolling for Trump: How Russia Is
Trying to Destroy Our Democracy." can be found here:
I don't know what was wrong with RT report it appears to be more or less correct:
I don't know why warontherocks.com put info about Disney stock traded in the US in their report.
And then if you google about the events in the Disney park in August, 2016:
We have here: mirror.co.uk, metro.co.uk, dailymail.co.uk…… Where is RT?
And the park was evacuated… at least according to the British media.
Not a Glen Greenwald fan or Ed Snowden either, but I agree with him here re: the WaPO
Infuriating when major 'news' outlets do this. Way to go Intercept, for calling them out on this. It will be interesting to see if they retract or 'update' it. I'm sure it's too mush to ask that Craig Timberg get fired. But until 'reporters' like him get removed, this will continue at WaPo and other sites. The guys running PropOrNot sound like some kids in a basement.
DJT needs to shut WaPo, along with HuffPo, out to the WH newspaper pool.
So the WaPo is claiming to be the "Ministry of Truth" deciding which news is the truth? Am I missing anything? I guess no clicks for the WaPo henceforth.
Mere like the Ministry of US Propaganda.
It sure looks like this is nothing more than Craig Timberg, himself, making up this non existent group. Talk about fake news. He hasn't produced any names because there aren't any. This is nothing more than a cheezy attempt to make a paper that has colluded with the Clinton campaign and the DNC to look relevant. The Washington Post has now surpassed the New York Times as the most used cage liner for birds in the country, because that is all either is good for.
I love the cute little names that David Brock and John Podesta come up with. ..
Where is Margaret Chase Smith when we really need her? As in the Democratic congressperson who will say, "Have you no shame?" when it comes to some of their colleagues finding a bigot under every bed the way McCarthy was outed by his Republican colleague.
When they can't tell you their version of your reality, they make blacklists.
There is a big campaign by the CIA to go after the left. psyops, subversion, Steve Bannon is, I believe CIA. There will be a lot of stories like this coming soon because Tchump is a great encouragement for the bottom of society to act.
Doesn't it look like Putin did get Hillary's emails off her server (setup in 2008, with also Bill's, Chelsea's, and others)? Why all the favors for Russia (backing off the Syrian Red line, toothless sanctions for Putin invading Ukraine, a great deal for Iran their ally, and the sale of 20% of the US's uranium)? Did Hillary step down in Feb. 2013 because Obama learned she was being blackmailed? Then there were those pictures of Putin whispering in Hillary's ear without an interpreter, and her freaked out reaction. And would those millions in donations from Russians to the Clinton Foundation provide cover plus a carrot to go with the stick?
Given Putin has dirt on Hillary, no wonder the Democrats are trying to claim Trump is in with Putin. And it also looks like we dodged war with Russia, so Hillary can cover up her corruption. But Putin really has nothing to use anymore now that Trump won.
There is no credible evidence that Assad used poison gas. Sunni jihadis are the more likely suspects and the neocons almost arm-twisted Obama into using cruise missiles against Assad until the American people raised holy hell. Russia "invaded Ukraine" by holding a plebiscite in Crimea. You're full of fake news yourself.
The left is out of its mind!
The Clintons and Democratic establishment are centrists or center-right, they are not leftists. Ditto for the Washington Post.
He said nothing about clintons or wapo
The left is out of their mind…
The Washington Post publishing "fake news" isn't new. Neither is them making things up.
Wow. We are living in crazy and dangerous times.
"Ben Bradlee, editor of the Washington Post during the Watergate era (who is exposed in the book as one of the CIA's major media assets). In my view, knowing that Bradlee was in the CIA's pocket helps explain why the Washington Post was so successful in taking down Richard Nixon following the Watergate break-in. Nixon had used his Chief of Staff, Haldemann, to attempt to get the CIA to "warn off" the FBI in its investigation of the Watergate break-in and the "plumbers."
Nixon instructed Haldeman to threaten the CIA (Richard Helms) with exposure of its involvement in the JFK assassination, as an incentive for the Agency to cooperate with him. This "hardball" leverage failed, and Bradlee was allowed (and perhaps encouraged) to take down Nixon. He acted as the CIA wished in the Watergate matter. Unaccountably, Bradlee never employed the considerable investigative resources of the Post to look into the Kennedy assassination…well, perhaps that is not so "unaccountable" after all, now that we know he had been a CIA asset since the early 1950s, a part of the Agency's remarkably successful penetration and control of foreign and domestic media"
WaPo has always had 'bloody hands'…
Hey Keith.
Which book was that?
No right-minded person would ever reject liberalism. Reject the bias of the liberal MSM. It must be manipulation of the stupid republicans, right?
We're smart and those that don't agree with us are stupid and wrong.
If they will not name themselves, then they have only the status of "rumour-mongers", and I have no reason to believe them.
I am an American that happens to be living in Russia now, and I am hoping to pursue Russian citizenship. So there is my full disclosure. Now, to my point.
Russian propaganda and disinformation had nothing to do with my moving here, as I did in 2015. What happened was very simple. I came to visit a friend and his family here in 2014, and it was my first truly international trip.
When I came here I was amazed at how free things feel. Christianity is honored, even by those who are not Christians. Family and traditional values are strongly upheld by everyone, including those without families. And there is no political correctness. People say what they think without hesitation, and I even suspect, with gratitude.
President Putin's approval here is very high, not because the thought police are massaging the numbers, but because he actually does a good job for his nation, and it is appreciated by a lot of people. There are a substantial group that do not agree with him, and they say it, but they are the minority. Most people are very pleased with his work, and worry about the weakness of Russian government because too much hangs on Putin's shoulders, and one day he will retire. This concerns some of them, that is to say, who will replace him?
I know that Russia's government and people have been concerned about Hillary, because she was talking about doing things that would have led our two countries into a shooting war with one another. No one here wants that. But I think it is rather hysterical to say that the people who voted for Mr. Trump (I was one of them) did so because of Russian propaganda. No. All I had to do was study what Obama and Hillary have been doing for anywhere from eight to forty years.
The information is in plain sight. It was not something that magically "appeared" as revelations from some "new" media source. I just collect history and study it over the years. Simple.
The truly amazing and alarming thing here is that shoddy journalism gets easily foisted on the ignorant masses. THAT is a problem. Having sheeple for a populace is a problem.
The real reason behind the corporate media's Pravda-like effort to control their narrative is that the whole American Empire notion is crumbling into dust, and this upsets the owners of the corporate media because it means a lot of their "tribute" income stream is going to get cut off, as always happens when empires collapse. What will they do then? Nothing as sad as a helpless unskilled aristocrat cut off from their trust fund and forced to work at McDonalds, is there?
Consider the trends: the new Cold War Clinton wanted is much less likely now, and that's cause for relief. A more realistic view of the world today would be that multi-polar geopolitics is the new world order – countries like the United States, Russia, China, India, etc. will all operate on an equal basis. Each continental region of the planet – Africa, Australia, Eurasia, North America, South America – should focus on regional cooperation and fair trade with the rest of the world.
Yes, that means the era of superpowers is over. And it should have ended in the 1990s, and would have, if the U.S.-British axis hadn't tried for a "to the victor go the spoils" post-Cold War behavior, trying to take over all the Eastern European and Central Asian ex-satellite countries of the Soviet Union and control their natural resources and access to Europe.
That's exactly what happened – instead of a peace dividend after the Berlin Wall came down, the American-British military-industrial complex, faced with its own diminishment, sought to expand NATO, when it should have been dissolved just as the Warsaw Pact was dissolved. The flow of capital into Russia in the 1990s, the rise of the plutocrats who ran Boris Yeltsin and destroyed the Russian economy, the effort by ExxonMobil to take over Russia's state oil company in 2003 – that was all ended when Putin came into power and began rebuilding the Russian economy, a largely successful effort.
The U.S. and Britain, in contrast, entered into neocolonial operations in Iraq and Afghanistan that largely ended in disaster and debacle, a last effort at the game of empire-building, under the PNAC "Project for a New American Century" gameplan, breaking OPEC, controlling global oil supplies, a ludicrous pipe dream that saddled the American economy with an additional $6 trillion in debt!!! We could have rebuilt our domestic infrastructure twice over with that money – but no, had to keep the empire alive, enter Bush and then Obama.
The corporate media was a key player in that gross debacle, and they've been a key player in the whole effort to restart the Cold War – but the general public is finally understanding that the media in this country is dishonest, untrustworthy, and always needs to be questioned. What it really needs is a round of anti-trust legislation aimed at breaking up the conglomerates – just like the plutocrats need to be slapped with a 90% personal income tax bracket.
"……..if the U.S.-British axis hadn't tried for a "to the victor go the spoils" post-Cold War behavior, trying to take over all the Eastern European and Central Asian ex-satellite countries of the Soviet Union and control their natural resources and access to Europe….."
It didn't take much coaxing to get much of eastern Europe to join NATO and the EU. After all, they lived (anything but) the dream under Soviet domination since WWII. When the USSR collapsed, eastern European countries could see that Russia (as in the USSR) was just temporarily dormant – but still very dangerous. Look at Ukraine and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand they were correct.
"…….The flow of capital into Russia in the 1990s, the rise of the plutocrats who ran Boris Yeltsin and destroyed the Russian economy, the effort by ExxonMobil to take over Russia's state oil company in 2003 – that was all ended when Putin came into power and began rebuilding the Russian economy, a largely successful effort……"
What destroyed the Russian economy was the same as what destroyed the USSR – 3/4 of a century of failed socialist policies and overextending the empire. Putin partially restored the economy using the price and supplies of energy (sometimes as a weapon). Russia needs to diversify because energy is not doing well at the moment. By the way, Putin, himself is an obvious plutocrat.
"…….The U.S. and Britain, in contrast, entered into neocolonial operations in Iraq and Afghanistan that largely ended in disaster and debacle, a last effort at the game of empire-building, under the PNAC "Project for a New American Century" gameplan, breaking OPEC, controlling global oil supplies……."
Well, it's not the last. Russia, Iran and Lebanon (Hezbollah) are currently empire building in Syria. Iran just lost their 1000th soldier. Russia is protecting a navy base in Syria, and has been targeting hospitals and aid convoys to ensure an Assad victory. All three are propping up the Syrian government which initiated the civil war in Syria. The destabilization of Syria resulted from Assad'd crackdown on (largely) peaceful demonstrators associated with the Arab Spring.
Russia is also nation-building in Ukraine having lost their next door neighbor to Europe when the Russian puppet was democratically ousted. Russia is supporting the rebels in eastern Ukraine where thousands have been killed and illegally annexed the Crimea Peninsula. Isn't it amazing how we suddenly forget all of that when discussing "empire-building"?
Oh bologna. Compare the number of nations bombed or invaded or governments toppled via clandestine operations over the past 25, 100, 200 years between Russia and the US. The record is very clear. Russia gets invaded more than it invades and the US invades while has not been invaded at all in any of those timeframes.
Big bad Russians, what a joke. The US is the evil empire and the historical numbers show this beyond any doubt whatsoever. This I say as an American, a very sad one to have realized some years ago that everything we were taught in public school is shaded to cover up the naked aggression of which we are guilty.
Also, all wars are bankers wars. If you want to know who is bankrolling the (pro-war) propaganda outlets in the US just follow the money. It all leads to a single corporation run by a very small circle of people and who's owners we cannot determine.
Assad initiated the civil war in Syria? What – he wanted to depose himself? Do you neocons even listen to the crap you're saying?
Amnesty International:
"…………When army tanks recently rolled into the city of Dera'a in southern Syria and began shelling residential areas, the human rights crisis in the country reached a new low. More than 400 people have died across Syria since protestors calling for political reform took to the streets in mid-March. Hundreds of people have been arbitrarily arrested and detained incommunicado, placing them at serious risk of torture [or execution] and other ill-treatment. Torture of detainees has long been common and endemic in Syria…..Amnesty International has repeatedly urged the Syrian government to rein in the security forces……The Syrian authorities have failed to take these steps and intensified repression.Consequently, Amnesty International has called on the UN Security Council to refer Syria to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, to impose an arms embargo and to freeze the assets abroad of the Syrian President and his senior associates……."
Look at Ukraine and it is clear it is the US with Nuland's $5 billion and the former EU, now a dead man walking, that are the war mongers on this planet. I fear the US and EU have done peace great harm because whilst we in the West are in the process of shaking off US and EU tyranny another tyranny in the form of China may make the leap to world domination. And of course 95% of people voting to rejoin Russia isn't annexation when a tyrant, Khrushchev, handed them over to Ukraine by diktat. And when "your government" tells you your language is banned in the first few days of the US regime installing them it is pretty clear they aren't your government and quite rightly people said stuff this we are going to fight. Isn't it funny how you suddenly forgot about all those inconvenient facts when writing your propaganda piece above?
John Sinclair
"…….Look at Ukraine and it is clear it is the US with Nuland's $5 billion and the former EU, now a dead man walking, that are the war mongers on this planet……."
After Ukrainian affairs were dominated by Russia for the past half century mostly under the former USSR, the Ukrainian people decided to democratically remove the Russian puppet, Viktor Yanukovych from power. This was a massive intelligence failure on the part of the KGB…..er, FSB. The FSB was in Ukraine in force, but could not prevent the democratic action by the Ukrainian people.
"…….And of course 95% of people voting to rejoin Russia isn't annexation when a tyrant, Khrushchev, handed them over to Ukraine by diktat……"
Russia signed the 1994 Budapest Agreement recognizing the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Russia broke their own agreement when they illegally annexed Crimea. The military facility was under lease so Ukraine could not remove the Russians from Crimea anymore that Castro could remove the US military from Cuba (which is also under lease). The referendum was illegal and conducted under Russian military occupation.
Two classic lies and disinformation promoted by the Russian government on Ukraine
1. The Nazis took over Ukraine (promoted in part by Greenwald) and,
2. this was a US coupe.
Classic lies and RT propaganda.
craigsummers: "After Ukrainian affairs were dominated by Russia for the past half century mostly under the former USSR, the Ukrainian people decided to democratically remove the Russian puppet, Viktor Yanukovych from power. This was a massive intelligence failure on the part of the KGB…..er, FSB. The FSB was in Ukraine in force, but could not prevent the democratic action by the Ukrainian people."
The so-called 'Russian puppet' was democratically elected. He was overthrown in an illegal coup. You need to get your facts right. This resulted in the Ukraine splitting in half when ethnic Russians rebelled against this state-of-affairs. It was the people responsible for the illegal coup (probably involving the CIA and agents of NATO) who miscalculated. Once again, the neocons screwed up.
"…….You need to get your facts right……"
Didn't you read the article? It's ironic in an article about Russian disinformation . lies and propaganda, you choose to promote even more. After over one-half of a century of Soviet control of Ukrainian affairs where democratic elections were "discouraged", the Ukrainian people had enough of Russian control of their affairs. The Ukrainians wanted closer economic ties to Europe which Putin strongly discouraged (being that Ukraine is in the Russian "area of influence").
There is nothing more democratic than protests against the prevailing order – so Yanukovych was democratically ousted in a "free and fair" coupe. Hmm, I wonder where Yanukovych lives today?
Did the CIA have a presence in Ukraine. More than likely, but you can bet your sweet "bippy" that the FSB was all over Ukraine. After all, Ukraine is Russia's playground.
"…….This resulted in the Ukraine splitting in half when ethnic Russians rebelled against this state-of-affairs……."
With a lot of help from the Russian army. That wasn't a US missile which the Russian-supported rebels used to shoot down MH17. Additionally, the Russians illegally annexed the Crimea Peninsula.
"…….It was the people responsible for the illegal coup (probably involving the CIA and agents of NATO) who miscalculated. Once again, the neocons screwed up……."
It's no screw-up. Ukraine does not belong to Russia – and Ukrainians made that clear. A bitter Russia needs to accept the reality of an independent Ukraine – and quit supporting the war in Eastern Ukraine. Didn't the Russians sign the Budapest Agreement recognizing the territorial integrity of Ukraine?
Regurgitating neoliberal and neoconservative talking points again? One doesn't even need to read your posts, one can merely predict what you're going to say – boilerplate U.S. State Department / Israeli / Saudi propaganda straight down the line.
Yes, they wanted ISIS to overrun Syria – as Israeli Defense Minister Ya'alon said. They're lunatics, nutters, fanatics:
"…….Regurgitating neoliberal and neoconservative talking points again?….."
Granted. It does get a little tiresome, but there are just so many responses to typical RT propaganda.
Craig your posts are all fake news. The reason why everyone is so nice to you is that we feel sorry for you.
The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!
Reporters Without Borders ranks Russia 149th out of 180 countries (2016). As long as you keep heaping raises on Putin, you should live a long and healthy life.