text:
Thu 11 Jun 2009
Important Student Choices
Posted by David Dudley Field '25 under Athletics, Faculty at 12:40 pm
The anonymous faculty member who started this thread has further comments.
I whizzed through the discussion pretty fast, but I didn't see anyone directly address another significant effect of athletics: the extent to which it determines important student choices, ranging from which classes they take or don't (anything in the last afternoon time slot is off-limits because it prevents them from doing early practices–all official denials notwithstanding) to whether they study abroad. I can't tell you the number of kids who've said to me things like, "I'd really like to go to Oxford next year, but I'm running track and can't." OK, life is about choices, but I personally find it sad that students are passing up important opportunities–in many cases, opportunities never again to be open to them–to play on a team, especially since they have three other years to focus on their sport. This kind of dilemma is extremely hard to get at empirically, but I'd have to say, anecdotally, that it's more significant than most people realize. My hunch is that it may also explain why it's been hard for the interest in service-learning and community service to get much traction at Williams: too many students are obliged to be in practice or on the road for sports events.
Funny how the debate always drifts toward discussion of athletic tips in admissions. I think that Morty did a great job of responding to this and moving Williams to a better place. The real number that people should be debating is the percentage of students who participate in varsity athletics. Last time I heard, it was about 46 percent, but perhaps you have better data. How many other colleges or universities in America come close to that figure? Some alums may take pride in it, but I find it way out of balance for an institution that prides itself on the quality of education that it offers.
1) Best data on participation is here. 36% of Williams students play on at least one varsity team. Few other colleges came anywhere near that figure.
2) I agree that Morty has done a good job with regard to tips and that the College will (and should) make similar moves going forward.
3) "[D]etermines important student choices" reads like sour grapes to me. Just because students make different choices than you (or I) might make does not mean that those choices are poor ones, either in the short or long run. If I Williams student decides not to go abroad because she loves her sport, then more power to her. That is her choice and her right. (Obviously, if coaches put pressure on athletes, that would be a completely different situation. I have never heard any accusations along those lines.)
I can't tell you the number of kids who've said to me things like, "I'd really like to go to Oxford next year, but I'm running track and can't."
Just what does "can't" mean in this context? The coach won't permit it? Williams will cancel the students athletic scholarship? There is no "can't."
This student just means that life is full of choices and we can't do everything that we want to do. Welcome to adulthood.
4) And just what concrete solutions is this professor proposing to fix the problem? I understand professors who want less of an emphasis on athletics in admissions or even professors who want stricter/clearer rules concerning the interference of athletics with academics (e.g., no mid-week travel, no matches during exams and so on). But there is no (plausible) policy change that solves the problem of a student choosing between track and Oxford during her junior year. She can do one or the other.
5) "it's been hard for the interest in service-learning and community service to get much traction at Williams." Yeah, right. More than 60% of students play no sports. That's around 1,200 Ephs. Perhaps the reason that service/community activities don't get much traction is that many/most students find them boring and stupid. Just saying! Until you can explain your failure with the 1,200 non-athletes, please look for other scape cows.
6) How should we interpret "way out of balance?" To the extent that there is a Williams ethos (similar to the spirit at many LACs) is is "excellence in all things." We want students who play a sport and write for the Record and sing a capella. (Or insert your favorite extra-curricula activities.) The magic of Williams, and places like it, is that you get to do more than one thing.
Should 10% or 36% or 50% or 100% of Williams students play a sport? What is "balance?"
To me, the answer is the same as always. Williams should admit the most academically accomplished and ambitious students, and then let them choose. Provide them with opportunities, in sports, singing, art, theater, writing, dance, service and everything else under the mountains. Whatever percentage of them choose activity X is fine by me.Print • Email
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68 Responses to "Important Student Choices"
JeffZ says:
A few points here in response. The majority of varsity athletes play sports only one season out of the year … yes, there are out of season workouts and the like, but for the majority of sports (some winter sports are the trickiest in this regard) athletes have at least one semester each year where they could potentially engage in a less traditional academic schedule, and at least one semester (not to mention winter studies) where they can study abroad.
And time constraints aren't limited to athletes. For example, when I decided I wanted to run for CC co-pres, that meant I couldn't do Oxford or any other year long study abroad program. Same thing goes for editor in chief of the record or, I imagine, many other leadership positions on campus, which often start junior year. If you want to be a JA, guess what, you can't go abroad EITHER semester. I just don't see athletics as UNIQUELY positioned relative to other time-intensive campus activities in that regard.
rory says:
i'm getting more and more convinced that some professors aren't as well-connected to student life as they might think they are.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
Perhaps the reason that service/community activities don't get much traction is that many/most students find them boring and stupid
Ummm… I don't want to do the usual dismissal here, but it strikes me that there is something to this, and there's something more to it.
But, — I believe the counterargument, (which is equally nearsighted,) reduced to brevity, would go something like "most Williams students are spoiled brats."
frank uible says:
Certain persons' responses to competition is not to compete better themselves but to lobby for eliminations of, or other restrictions applicable to, the competitors.
JeffZ says:
Very true Frank — drug dealers being a case in point.
Oh, and I missed that line the first time Ken. Good point. I also disagree with the fundamental premise, given the huge percentage of Williams students who participate in community service, and the large number of community service oriented groups on campus. Considering the large time commitments required for academics, plus all activities (including athletics), I don't see Williams students as deficient in this regard, and I'm troubled that the prof asserts that without any support. And I know for a fact that some high profile sports teams have engaged in community service activities collectively, not to mention some individual varsity athletes who have been unbelievably engaged with the community — Will Bruce comes immediately to mind there.
sophmom says:
A couple of comments here.
Why didn't "anonymous faculty member" join the conversation in the last thread? There were numerous questions raised about statements "AFM" made, that many of us would have enjoyed seeing answered.
And personally, the first paragraph of this post is either rife with misinformation, or just plain misleading. I know of numerous athletes who have done, or are planning to do, Study Abroad. It all depends on seasons and priorities, but every student can make it work if they want to. And, I even know of students who chose to leave their sport because something else became more important to them, one being an entire year abroad.
And this sentence is so odd:
but I personally find it sad that students are passing up important opportunities–in many cases, opportunities never again to be open to them–to play on a team,
What AFM finds sad is her or his choice, but I cannot imagine why anyone familiar with a large number of varsity athletes would even say something like this. For most varsity athletes, their sport is a passion, and they consider playing on a team a wonderful opportunity and a part of the college experience they will never forget. Would AFM lament the missed opportunities for the dancer who commits time to rehearsal and performance?
Ken Thomas '93 says:
'I can't tell you the number of kids who've said to me things like, "I'd really like to go to Oxford next year, but I'm running track and can't."'
Just what does "can't" mean in this context? … There is no "can't."
Ahnnt– not so fast there. You're drawing conclusion before exploring the premises. The second "can't" in your quotation might be called, a special employment of "weasel words." If so, that's important.
Both "cants" turn on ambiguity– though I'll give the writer, that "I can't tell you" is a stock phrase, and one might dismiss the logical contents of the grammar on those grounds.
eyetolduso says:
I think the number of students who applied for Oxford was 70? with 24? being permitted to go, so the suggestion that anyone who did not apply due to sports is missing and opportunity is silly. The "opportunity" was only sufficient to satisfy 30% of the current demand of those who had the minimum requirements for application. Straw man. Many think that Disney World is in the amusement business, and they are, but mostly they are in the food, beverage, and lodging business, so is Williams. Students pay their 50K for more than an education and if sports is a part of that purchase so be it. The piece of paper you get at the end has no real economic value, does not entitle you to pursue any particular career, or license you in any practice. Its value is perceptual and if you perceive that participating in athletics adds to the overall experience I guess I don't see the objections. The students are paying for the opportunity to play, it is not a gift.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
"I'd really like to go to Oxford next year, but I'm running track and can't."'
Regardless, one possible reply to this locution might be:
"What you're really saying to me there is that the reason you're choosing not to go to Oxford, is that you want to run track. So the question is, is that reason valid? Could you find a way to run track at Oxford and be just as happy– or more? Or maybe Oxford really just isn't that appealing versus staying at Williams– that's fine with me, if that's what you think."
hwc says:
I believe that everything the professor mentions is an accurate issue. There is no question that varsity athletes are less likely to study abroad and less likely to become involved in community service activities. It is, however, a bit like bringing home a dalmation and then complaining that the dog has too many spots. Williams College is one of, if not the, most sports oriented Division III liberal arts colleges in the country. As Wesleyan grad Bill Belichick likes to say, "it is what it is".
The consistency in responses here on EphBlog confirms my belief that the priority placed on varsity sports at Williams is highly valued by all constituencies and viewed as a defining quality of the Williams ethos. Hence my suggestion in the other thread that our professor friend is simply at the wrong school. It's not rocket science to prioritize "service learning" over athletics — in admissions, in curriculum, and in campus culture — if that's a desired institutional priority. Plenty of schools do just that. That is not what the Williams trustees, administration, alumni, and students have opted to prioritize. That's not Williams.
Reunion Bound says:
I wish I had more time to respond to this professor's insanely misinformed (at least IMO) statement, but I am about to get out of town and head to WTown for Reunion weekend.
In the absence of a more complete response, I for the most part want to adopt and sponsor the majority of what DK wrote — it had to be said.
JeffZ says:
HWC, I know you aren't a big fan of athletes, but to blanket assert that athletes are less likely to engage in community service strikes me as particularly egregious. Sure, they may have less time in season, but out of season, you certainly don't know that to be true. Moreover, there are things athletes do that may not be formally "counted" as community service but certainly benefit the community. There are tons of young kids who attend Williams basketball games, for example, and have warm, wonderful interactions with some of the players … that benefits the community, of course, as much as many other community service activities. But in all events, as I noted before, tell it to Will Bruce, probably the most decorated community service participant in recent Williams history. Tell it to the (per capita) huge number of Eph Rhodes scholars, most if not all of whom were varsity athletes at some point.
JeffZ says:
And given what I've heard about most study abroad programs, all that says about athletes is that they are spending more time at Williams, which is more rigorous than any study abroad program that anyone I know attended — not exactly an indictment of athletes that (assuming this is accurate) more of them forego a six month party in Europe or Australia to load up on classes at Williams.
hwc says:
I have close family members who would be considered among the country's most knowledgeable professionals at the top tier of the college community service programming. I am aware of serious collegiate commitment to community service and your example of entertaining local children at sporting events suggests that we are talking from very different perspectives. I am also not talking about community service that can be recorded in "hours" or carwash fundraising.
There are colleges and universities that attract top community service/service learning "recruits" in the same way that Williams athletics is one the recurring themes attracting Williams applicants and that achieve national recognition for their programs. For various reasons, community service was something that my daughter and our family researched intensively in her college search. Williams is not a leader in this area. That's fine. Colleges have different institutional priorities and those priorities, quite properly, reverberate though campus culture, student life, and admissions.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
HWC: Yes, there are issues here. I don't think the anonymous Professor's comments are unusual, or misrepresentative– in fact, it's just that I've seen these issues framed this way for twenty years. I think we need to remove the frame and look at things from different perspectives.
JeffZ: Like many an administrator, I'm somewhat out of touch with the current situation on campus. If the service situation has changed significantly in terms of participation, that would be interesting– but I think I would say, many of the professors I know (there must be a selection bias there) want a different campus culture.
Surely part of their desire is "wrong," and part of it "right." As with the choice presented above ("athletics vs. Oxford"), I think there's an unnecessary exclusion (false dichotomy of sorts), an obfuscation of the real questions, and — what it comes down to, is whether we work through the issues or they remain obfuscated and a source of tensions and frustrations.
Can Williams engage in that kind of community conversation, self-examination and resolution? In frankness– I wouldn't bet on it.
In regards to service and participation– Williams is not Haverford or Berkeley, nor should it be– and much of the faculty frustration I've heard, is common among faculty everywhere. A future vision for the College, as David points out, would have to be compelling and practically viable– I don't have that vision, I've never heard an articulation of that vision, and if such a vision is possible, it would take a lot of community work to create.
Equally– when I was at Williams, one of the tour guide tropes (at least when a PIRGer was giving the tour) was to mention that 300 students attended the MassPIRG organizational meeting each year; over 500 actively participated in MassPIRG; more than half the student body worked with PIRG in some way while at Williams. (Note that I do not support PIRG). Then they added numbers for the various other groups such as Lehman, the food programs, etc.
PIRG is gone, and while I am opposed to some of its methods, it taught some political and organizational methods; it infused the campus. I can't characterized what has replaced it– out of touch.
David seems to be saying that some community/service options– (let's ignore the dead horses on the side of the road here!)– are uncompelling. That's sort of a scattershot accusation, but if we sort past the collateral damage, I think he may have hit a genuine target or two there.
The Williams service model– well, I only really speak of the 90s– and some contacts since– and I don't want to go on, except to say it may be out of date.
Heck– I'm looking around for one of the directors of Nashville's literacy programs, who sent me an email appeal for 2 hours of my time last week, to deliver the message to her that with one in four adults in Metro who can't read and write (as her email mentioned to me), we're not going to get anywhere by quarter-measures, incremental change and condescending to those we serve– we have to imagine, build and execute a program of systematic change.
Larry George says:
Ken's comments at #15, which he posted while I was writing my comments (below) make them just an aside. I post them just for the sake of accuracy.
Williams prides itself on its student-athletes being able to participate at high levels in varsity sports and still study away. In fact, that is a selling point that both coaches and Admission use and that has successfully lured student-athletes away from the Ivies and D1 schools where studying away is much more difficult, if not impossible, for varsity athletes. It is true that many of the top Williams athletes do not go away for a whole year at a time, but they do study away, and in droves. If one reads the sport releases and profiles from Sports Information, Record articles, and college press releases, one finds it a common practice among everyone from bench warmers to All-Americans.
The Oxford example is an interesting one. Admission sells Williams with a heavy emphasis on the Oxford program. One of their main points is that the Williams presence at Oxford is very different from that of other schools' study away programs in that the Williams students are actually enrolled as students of Oxford University, not as visitors, and that, as official Oxford students, they are eligible for all of the Oxford student organizations, including the debating teams and athletic teams. I have heard that part of the presentation several times. It means that a Williams student could, for example, row for Oxford if he or she could make a boat (and to do that in the ancient bastion of rowing tradition should be quite an attractive option). That special characteristic of the Oxford program doesn't help the Williams American-style football players (there being no Oxford American-style football team), but it should help a lot of other Williams athletes. Rowers, runners, and swimmers come to mind especially (as well as those in some club sports such as rugby and riding, who might have a wonderful time of it).
In addition to being able to study abroad for a semester (or even a year), there are other options to go abroad during the college years, including during the Winter Study Period, which would seem to present a great opportunity for a fall-season student-athlete in particular. Furthermore, Williams, through the departments and the alumni programs, has very generously funded summer travel and research abroad, which would seem to open the doors for even more student-athletes to have international experiences.
And, by the way, maybe it varies from team to team, but the students on the team I know best do not have early practices, do not avoid the class slot before Division of the Day (many could not complete their majors if they did so – it is a heavily-scheduled slot in some departments), wear practice clothes to that class, and show up breathless at practice after hustling to get there in time. I don't have in-depth knowledge of other teams (and I have no doubt that the anonymous professor has had student-athletes who avoided the slot before practice, for any number of professed reasons, but that isn't a universal problem and may not even be a widespread problem — I just don't know but my knowledge of the one team tells me that is unfair to tar all student-athletes because of it).
I think there's a lot to be said about the balance amongst academics, athletics, and other things, but we need to be fair about the facts. I hope the anonymous professor is reading this thread and will contribute, and that we can all learn from each other.]
Reunion Bound @15 – Have a good time.
JeffZ says:
In terms of MassPirg, good riddance.
Here is a list of community service organizations on campus. For a school of 2000, looks pretty darn good to me. I am not saying Williams is Oberlin or Wesleyan, a notoriously activist type climate (and one I'd also associate with community service), nor should it aspire to be, but I also see no evidence that a higher percentage of athletes on campus in any way equates to a lower percentage of community engagement / community service involvement than most other similar schools:
Note some of the figures listed in this webpage as well:
I take it that HWC has at the very least, via his inability to respond to my critique, retracted his unfounded and unfair comment that athletes are less engaged with community service than non-athletes. I realize to you certain kinds of community service don't "count" (not sure who made you the arbiter), but I think any reasonable person would consider these type of activities — all involving athletes — to provide tremendous value to the community:
This is just a sampling of ONE team's community service activities:
And again, I do consider more informal interactions like talking to area kids after a game to be of value to the community. And trust me, many in the community agree and really don't give a damn what you happen to consider valuable to them. In the futrue before you go and make generalizations about an entire category of Williams students, you might want to at least perform some due dilligence.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
JeffZ: Thanks for the points on athletics and community service, aspects of community involvement which may be overlooked.
WRT MassPIRG, I am as usual conflicted. I am categorically opposed to the methods they use in practice; I've been opposed to a lot of their specific initiatives, which have ranged from quackery to ill-conceived to plain old deceptive.
I didn't get a chance to discuss this the last time I saw Laura Nader, but I think it's worth saying there is a political vision there, and it is a democratic vision of public participation. I don't think Laura has a good sense of the details of what goes wrong in such organizations– and why– and the challenges– or of the US-American left's failings, in practical ability to enact real democracy. All of which is at play in these conversations; I hope Laura's around if I make it to Berkeley this summer (though she's probably in Oaxaca).
MassPIRG also did a lot of good things, regardless; despite all the failures, it supported food programs and local initiatives; it organized people and gave them a quick, clear path to service– it was just corrupt, misorganized at the top. Thus I want to gently counter your dismissal.
As well– to go on– MassPIRG was a sacred cow when I was on campus; almost universally supported; I'd have to look up the vote in the Record, but I believe support for the fee was above 95%. It's demise in popularity reflects a sea change in sentiment and judgment on campus– and if not a senior thesis, a careful investigation of how, and why, could at least be an interesting seminar paper, which I would be very glad to read.
hwc says:
I take it that HWC has at the very least, via his inability to respond to my critique, retracted his unfounded and unfair comment that athletes are less engaged with community service than non-athletes
No. Your take would be incorrect. The examples you cite of community service underscore the gulf in what we are talking about in terms of leadership in collegiate community service and service learning endeavors.
This isn't really open for much debate. All you have to do is look at the community service structure and staff at Williams to see that it is not a notable institutional priority or strength of the College.
Larry George says:
Let's not take this from athletics into MassPIRG (we could start a separate thread for MassPIRG, if anyone wants). I think there's still a lot to be shared and learned on the main topic.
I have heard it said that many Williams students do three things very well and with passion. Number one is academics. Number two might be sports or it might be an art or it might be singing in a group or it might be service. Number three, especially for student-athletes, is usually on a more minor note, such as serving on a joint committee or fishing or photography, but it is done with passion as well — service may fall into this category for students who have heavy commitments to athletics or some other activity outside of their studies. They are learning to make choices, to balance, and still to live well-rounded and passionate lives.
JeffZ says:
HWC, you claim, without any evidentiary support but for your increasingly strident, naked assertions, that there is "no question" that athletes at Williams engage in fewer community service activities than non athletes. The only thing that there is "no debate" about is that you have not, and I imagine can not, provide any support for this highly insulting and apparently fabricated-out-of-thin air claim. You have no basis to make any such claim as it is clear you have no idea what sort of community activities athletes at Williams engage in, nor, I'm sure, would you bother to try to learn — you are far more comfortable relying upon your stereotyped views of athletes.
I'll leave it to other more reasonable and fair-minded readers to judge the examples I provided of community service for ONE (albeit exceptional) individual and of only ONE team (and again, they may well do more, these are just a few I was able to quickly find) to see if they consider these to be valuable community service activities. Just because for whatever reason YOU don't happen to, doesn't make it so, no matter how smug and dismissive you choose to be. But if you claim Will Bruce, at least, is not a community service leader, than you I guess you are living in an entirely different reality from the one I inhabit.
JeffZ says:
David, do you really have to have 20 more of essentially the same posts on athletics? It gets really tiring. Some professor and/or HWC will make some generalized claims. At least half the time, I can easily rebutt and pretty much eviscerate whatever claim HWC makes (on the rare occasion he is accurate, I'll acknowledge that as well), then he has either no response, or something smug and off-point, to the specific claim I've debunked. Then you post a week later basically the same type of provocation and he comes back and makes the exact same previously debunked claim as if we never even had the conversation in the first place. It is just stupid and pointless because you'll just open up this same exact topic in another week or another month, and HWC will make some other generalized anti-athlete claim that he repeats over and over and over again on here as well as other internet forums. And I'll feel compelled to debunk or contextualize the false and/or misleading and/or unsupported claims all over then so anyone who is new to the discussion won't be fooled. Please, for the love of god, gives these a rest for awhile and move on to some other topic. Heck, maybe diversity, so that Rory rather than myself can do the heavy lifting.
hwc says:
That's not what I said. I did not mention Williams at all. I said, and I quote:
There is no question that varsity athletes are less likely to study abroad and less likely to become involved in community service activities.
This is not an indictment of varsity athletes. As you have pointed out time and time again, the time they spend on athletics is a major, and worthwhile, commitment as is the equally large time commitment that students invest in world-class community service and service learning endeavors.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
JeffZ, hwc:
I fear we're talking around each other, and about slightly different things because of our different perspectives, and overemphazing points of disagreement instead of exploring convergences.
Williams is not Haverford; it never was. It's not Deep Springs. "Institutional priority" is one way of describing it– but I'm not sure you can buy culture in that way, or that Williams hasn't tried. In fact– behind the scenes– especially in the Oakley years– I think a lot of priority and resources may have gone into these questions. (I'm thinking of being given the keys to a storage room at Mount Hope, to grab any furniture a particular social nonprofit needed).
I think it may be useful to consider that the traditions of service that 'hwc' is referencing, as very particular historical threads, grounded in places and people and institutions. Williams just isn't organized this way– its political structures, its ways of getting things done, are not those of an open, participatory democracy, grounded in (if you'll permit an enormous gloss) a tradition such as the Quaker one. It's not institutional priority; it's the presence of the past. You can't easily stop the 'desarrollo' of the existing structures at Williams– it's like trying to stop a huge stone wheel, rolling down a hillside.
{…in progress…}
JeffZ says:
For the love of god, that is your defense HWC? This is a blog, thread, and discussion about Williams athletes. Anyone reasonably reading your comment would take it to INCLUDE Williams athletes. I wasn't a major in logical thought, but this one seems pretty straightforward: Williams has varsity athletes — according to you, varsity athletes are without question less likely to become involved in community service activites — therefore Williams' varsity athletes (which is the topic at hand) are, according to you, without question less likely to become so involved. Maybe if you had gone to Swarthmore that rudimentary level of logic would not be novel to you, too bad you are a product of a deficient Williams education. If you want to insult a whole category of Williams students, either defend it or retract, but don't claim the insult was never levelled.
In all events, I think it is clear that the organization structure of teams in some ways ENCOURAGES community service by engaging in these types of activities on a group basis — peer pressure can be as much a positive, wonderful force as it is a negative one …
JeffZ says:
I really don't follow Ken, but my main concern is with the claim — like all of HWC's claims, essentially — that a larger percentage of students involved in varsity athletics is the proximate cause of some sort of deficiency in life at Williams, in this case, engagement with the community. This is completely fabricated and unsupported. And maybe HWC will claim that is not what he was saying / implying, but that would be utter BS.
sophmom says:
I agree with Jeff @ 22. To different degrees, almost every one of these posts starts out with something that needs major debunking. The Peck thread was a bit of an exception in that the original material was at least a real (and published) source.
AFM may mean well, but his/her comments are oddly misinformed. You go on to comment on this, which some readers catch and some do not. But if even you agreed that the statements AFM made needed correction, then why post it to begin with?
And why do we need the same arguments over and over? There are many valuable counter suggestions and questions that you never bother to address, that you just skim right over, which only makes you look like you have an agenda. It gets very tedious for those of us who are privvy to the modus operandi. And the day that I can't depend on Jeff (and LG) to carefully point out and correct the sloppy stuff in the athletics threads, because they are worn out from doing it so many times, is the day I give up as well.
(And as for anonymous sources, I would like to address that with the board. I think, at the the very least, an anonymous source who emails you with the intention of being posted (as this one obviously did) should at least join into the conversation. And any anonymous commenter should at least have a legitimate return email.)
hwc says:
I'm really not thinking of any Quaker schools when I talk about community service — although several of those are leaders in that area. The school I'm most familiar with in terms of world-class community service is in New England and was, I believe, founded by Protestants of some ilk (Puritans, I believe).
Not to stand in the way of a good rant or anything, but I don't have a problem with Williams in terms of its level of community service/service learning prioritization or its level of athlethics prioritization. Williams has an institutional culture and set of priorities that Williams constituents strongly endorse. Those priorites make Williams a leader in some areas (Div III athletics) and not a leader in other areas (community service/service learning).
Likewise, I think it's fine that student athletes (at Williams or anywhere else) chose to devote their time more heavily on their sporting endeavors and less heavily on community service/service learning or study abroad.
And, no I don't find the kinds of community service you linked very compelling when compared to the kinds of activities pursued by national-level student leaders in community service. To borrow a sports metaphor, the types of activities you cite are intramural level pursuits.
JG says:
Out of curiousity hwc, what kind of community service programming do you consider to "count" in this discussion? While at Williams, I had the opportunity to participate in all kinds of community service activities. Those that weren't already set up, I set up myself. And for alums that you claim don't give a shit about community service, who started the Berkshire Food Project? I guess that must have been a Swattie on vacation to the Berkshires or something?
BTW, did you do any community service while at Williams or even look into it? Are you basing any of your commentary on actual current students not being able to do community service at Williams? I was paid by the alumni internship program to work at a nonprofit one summer. I was offered on fellowship post-grad with a community service org but ended up working at another nonprofit, then being a community organizer for another for serveral years. Wow, Williams must have TOTALLY DEFICIENT to have helped me develop those skills.
Granted, I learned so much primarily because Williams is such a student-run kind of place when it comes to activities. This is reflected in club/intramural sports (which account for a LOT of the athletic participation), but also with acapella groups, student theater, the Lehman Community Service Council, etc. One community service project I worked on was through the Newman Association, another from a woman I met while in line for the Empty Bowl dinner at the Congo Church. Another was through the Chaplain's office. Another was organized by myself and some friends who wanted to help out. Tons more did the SMART reading program and Habitat and other things. Several times there were big fundraising and education activities around international crisis-type issues.
Where is the deficiency? Seriously. Where is it?
rory says:
cmon, Jeff…don't throw me under the bus like that! :P
mallow says:
So what's wrong with there being one or more very "sports-centric" liberal arts colleges? I mean it didn't work for my daughter, so she chose otherwise, and, frankly, it didn't work that great for me either (I didn't know what I'd walked into until I was there), but why should Williams be all things to all people?
JeffZ says:
Sorry Rory :) (in any event, I am sure your day will come soon enough, with or without my, umm, encouragement … I am just so sick of rehashing the same things over, and over, and over — somehow, I am guessing you can empathize).
JG — well said.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
@hwc: that was an incredible gloss– the Quaker connected schools and traditions are the ones I think of, because of my own biography– other models are based in other religious histories– other models do not rely on that– and Williams, too, has a history here, which contradicts my argument.
@JeffZ: Lessee. The argument that hwc constantly rails against athletics/Williams is– just not very appealing to me. If he makes such arguments, I've already taught my brain to skim over and ignore such statements. What's the quote– a man is richer, in the number of things he can ignore? Something like that.
I don't want to ignore the service that goes on at Williams– I just– desire something else. Hell, I desire to turn Nashville into a city where everyone can read and write and where ignorance and prejudice are not constant drains on public life– and I'd like to find a way to do that soon enough that I have a few decades left to look at it and draw some lessons from what happened– and the desire to do things like that tends to overwhelm other things.
I think I have a problem with the service situation at Williams, though I'm not sure I can articulate it well– and I certainly wouldn't express it as hwc does– maybe I'm tilting at a windmill– maybe everyone with the concern is. But I could roll off a list of twenty-five professors who have expressed similar concerns. Perhaps hwc really hates Williams and only wants to say nasty things; if so, I don't really give a damn, because I have better things to do and don't think such statements, however posed, have much plausibility or are likely to get much traction. (When compared to Reality). I'm, generally, joking jabs at David aside, not here to psychologize, at least, not today.
I am interesting in listening carefully to what everyone is saying, and trying to understand what the problem is, if there is a problem– or if we're just chasing a ghost we've conjured in our minds, and there is no problem– or if we're talking about a disparate series of events and concerns, largely separate and separable, which could be addressed individually.
If there is a problem or problems– I'd like to push towards solving it, or them. If we're chasing a ghost– maybe we can stop. If there is no easy solution or path– maybe we can reconcile ourselves to that fact, or table the issue until circumstances change.
@hwc: national-level vs. "intramural": examples to substantiate the metaphor?
Ken Thomas '93 says:
Cross-posting above;
Where is the deficiency? Seriously. Where is it?
but why should Williams be all things to all people?
Both great observations and questions.
JeffZ says:
In addition to indisputably "world class" community service undergrad Will Bruce (I'll take the word of the several NATIONAL awards he won over HWC's, thanks very much), here are a few more I'd nominate as such:
(started right after she graduated from Williams)
Heck, I'd also include Noah's efforts to create the library … he learned something right at Williams in embarking on such an endeavor.
These are all examples of "world class" community service efforts by Ephs while they are students or right after graduation. Now, can Williams improve in this regard? Of course … I'd love to see more students emulate the examples of those listed above. But I'd also LOVE to see a group of young people, at or recently graduated from any college, who are making more of a creative, tangible, demonstrable positive difference in so many people's lives …
Ronit says:
Just a minor correction to David's original post:
More than 60% of students play no sports.
is incorrect. 60% of students play no varsity sports. If you count JV and club sports (students in JV track still go to the same practices as varsity track, and club sports like WUFO and rugby can be just as time-consuming as a varsity sport), it is clear that the rate of participation in sports at Williams is much, much higher than 36% and could plausibly explain the relative lack of community service or related activities pursued by Williams students. I am not saying this is a good or a bad thing; it just is. The professor doesn't have to propose a solution in order to point out, correctly, that the predominant athletic culture could be causing students to exclude other opportunities.
hwc says:
Jeff: The issue here is not whether you can point to one or two students who did meaningful community service at Williams. I am quite confident that there are hundreds. The issue is how Williams community service/learning compares to other colleges. This is no different than comparing Williams athletics to other schools.
There is no way that anyone knowledgeable in the field could look at the structure and staff of community service and see it as a high priority at Williams.
anon says:
Personally, I've had a number of students who are varsity athletes and who also studied abroad. Some were able to do so without missing out on any athletic competitions because of the timing of their sports, others chose to miss a season of athletics because they thought study abroad was more important. Obviously every student athlete has this choice and it is indeed a choice.
One interesting side note is that varsity athletes do take tutorials at a lower rate than non-varsity athletes. I think there are innumerable possible explanations here, but thought is was an interesting fact to note.
hwc says:
Here's an example of "national championship caliber" collegiate community service:
To be fair, there is no liberal arts college doing programs on this scale, but there are colleges doing similar things on a smaller scale and colleges with a very high budget, staff, and structure priority on community service and learning including specific courses integrated with NGO internships.
Likewise, I would point to activities such as War News Radio as an example of the kinds of resources that LACs are putting into the broad category of "service learning" endeavors and gaining national recognition.
Of course, Williams has community service. It is not a leader in these areas and that's OK. It's a leader in other areas that are higher institutional priorities. Harvard's not an athletic powerhouse.
JG says:
**deleted b/c cross-posted with the answer I was requesting**
hwc says:
"other than saying that anyone who knows anything knows Williams doesn't measure up"
That's not what I said. What I said is that anyone knowledgeable about community service/service learning can look at the community service structure and staff at Williams College and see that it is not an institutional priority (budget, staff, curriculum, etc.) and that it is not in the top tier.
Have you been to the Williams website and looked at the community service organizations and staff? Have you done so for other schools?
Jay says:
Re: Do athletes do as much community service as others?
I doubt there is any way to know this at all. I'm pretty sure the track team at least requires a certain number of community service hours of its participants. Even if done begrudgingly, that still makes for quite a few hours of community service done by athletes, as the track team is quite large!
Re: Community service at Williams generally
Williams makes it very easy to do community service. I suppose requiring everyone to put in some hours would indicate it's more of an "institutional priority," but when I was there, Rick Spalding/Lehman made it extremely easy to do any community service you wanted to.
I'd go talk to Rick Spalding and his helpers, and they'd help in any way they could – heck, they even let you take one of several cars – no charge – and even pay for the gas!
Ronit says:
I'd go talk to Rick Spalding and his helpers, and they'd help in any way they could – heck, they even let you take one of several cars – no charge – and even pay for the gas!
No question. Rick Spalding is a great facilitator for any student who has interest in service. His help allowed me to take part in some of the most fulfilling things I did at Williams.
Jay says:
Re my statement in 42, "Even if done begrudgingly," I don't mean to say track athletes would only do community service begrudgingly. I worked closely with several track athletes who were extremely committed to our service projects.
PTC says:
I was a D1 varsity athlete and I went to Spain for a semester… yes… it can be done!
rory says:
assuming no economy of scale or of location or data manipulation (all bad assumptions in this case), PBHA (the Harvard version of Lehman) says 1400 students (assuming its only the undergrads) participate in community service @ Harvard. Williams admissions claims 500 students participate in community service @ Williams.
1400/6200 = 23%
500/2000 =25%
those are based on some terrible assumptions, i know, but sometimes its worth stating even numbers based on incomplete and possibly biased data.
The Jewish faith says that the best act of charity one can perform is that in which you receive no honor for it. Food for thought as we contemplate colleges and "leadership" in the field of "community service" (however we define it. And I think Ken's making a good point that we need to think about how we define it).
In fact, it reminds me of a dinner I had at a professor's house when we discussed this very same issue. A professor chided me–as a freshman–for my criticism of students who do a couple hours of service and put it on their resumes. To an extent, she was right (though horribly rude!) as any service is greater than no service. I was arguing that without building a program for success, these students did nothing significant to solve any problem, just to push that problem to the next day (and the next student).
Ideally, service programs would be design not to give men fish, but to teach them to fish. Wesleyan's prison program that got mentioned in speak up seems to be in the second category.
Rather than debating who spends X hours doing Y deeds (let's instead celebrate everyone who spends any hours doing any good deeds and hope for more from all), wouldn't it be better to ask who creates programs that change lives in meaningful and long-term ways?
PTC says:
"there is a Williams ethos"- I cannot stand the term Ethos. It is sooooo 2005. Why not just be retro… and call it a "Vision"… lol.
kthomas says:
@hwc: Thanks for the links– they do a lot to explain what specifically you're pointing to.
What I was going to ask, was something like, well, what exactly would an "expert" say about Williams? It may be obvious to you– it's not within my experience. I'd like to hear the words, or your representation of them, or someone's.
Of course, I may take an obligatory dig at the "expert," and wonder if this is a field in which expert knowledge has so much value, or their expert knowledge is superior to Williams' local understanding. Maybe you're just talking about needless "social spending?" (
I'm willing to accept that there is a substantive difference between what you're talking about, and what goes on at Williams. I'm not willing to attach a value judgment to it, yet.
I don't think we have to take the step of accepting that Williams is sufficient or deficient or "behind"– "not the same par–" I think we can start, by simply noting that the kinds of opportunities you highlight, may not be available at Williams.
Is that a true statement? If so, why not? And– if so– ignoring institutional priorities and internal politics– what could we (and "we specifically," as alums) do to foster them, to "get there?"
I see no reason why a student could not– with support– initiate a Berkshires version of the SUP. Why not? I believe the federal funding is there; the housing is probably there. (If I may beat my favorite horse: it seems to me that not having a "House System" is one barrier to the breeding of such programs, and such a culture).
War News Radio strikes me as "great"– I mean, think of Ethan Zuckerman, and Global Voices, and that there are similar threads of thought and conversations on globalism going back far before I was at Williams. How to do this? The economist and integrator in me, says, partner with Swarthmore.
Other ideas?
And by the way– we're just alums. It's the students' campus– at Deep Springs we had a concept that alums should not disturb "the privacy of the Valley," which meant something like "don't interfere in an experience that is no longer yours." (It also meant– one should stay a little out of touch).
I'd thus be interested, and honored, to hear about what any current students think about the topics of our jawing– if any of them care to bother with us.
Ronit says:
current students think about the topics of our jawing– if any of them care to bother with us.
I bet they're all on summer vacation somewhere far away from the internet.
kthomas says:
rory:wouldn't it be better to ask who creates programs that change lives in meaningful and long-term ways?
And: how?
sophmom says:
Rather than debating who spends X hours doing Y deeds (let's instead celebrate everyone who spends any hours doing any good deeds and hope for more from all), wouldn't it be better to ask who creates programs that change lives in meaningful and long-term ways?
I remember a couple of terrific Winter Studies that consisted of life-changing community service…the Gaudino one run by Jeff Thaler in Maine, and the trip to New Orleans which Will Slack went on.
I may look for them when I get a moment.
(cross-posted with Ken, hence the repetition)
kthomas says:
@Ronit: somewhere far away from the internet.
Forbid the thought!
David says:
HWC: 1) Do you have any data on how many hours an average Williams student spends on community service? And how that compares to other schools? Unless you have such data, my default assumption would be that Ephs volunteer a similar amount.
2) You mention staff and spending. Do you have data on how much staff and spending Williams devotes to these issues and how that compares to other schools? Note that 90% of Rick Spalding's time (and others in offices that may not be labeled "community service") is devoted to these projects?
SophMom and Jeff: You may find these conversations boring. But:
a) When a Williams prof takes the time to write me, I am always going to publish her thoughts. I recommend you do the same.
b) There conversations may be repetitive to you, but we have new readers every day. Note that at least two have expressed their pleasure in these discussions.
sophmom says:
a) When a Williams prof takes the time to write me, I am always going to publish her thoughts. I recommend you do the same.
But David, with so many questions asked of her, why won't she participate in the discussion? It would be different if you had lifted her comment from a thread, but she seems to be directing her post to EB. She was even asked questions in her last post which she didn't bother to even slightly address in this post.
b) There conversations may be repetitive to you, but we have new readers every day. Note that at least two have expressed their pleasure in these discussions.
New readers are exactly why many of us spend time debunking…so they won't get the wrong idea. And, um, as far as specific "expressions of pleasure" for these two posts, I apologize if I missed them. Could you please point me in their direction?
David says:
1) As Sam Crane can tell you, I am not always the best judge of why Williams professors do what they do. If I had to speculate, I would guess that the professor happens to be busy right now.
2) Here is one.
I have been finding the discussions of tips, and the current level of emphasis on athletic achievement at Williams very interesting.
I find the other one that I recall just now, but with hundreds of comments, it can be tough to find things.
3) "spend time debunking?" Perhaps this is not directed at me, but I have written several thousand (?) words on athletics/tips in the last few weeks, all either correct or clearly labelled as my opinion.
If there is anything of mine that you have debunked, feel free to highlight the point again, perhaps in a new post.
4) Suggestion for those who feel that we go over the same points again and again, whether it me related to athletics or affirmative action or anything else. Create a new post (not a comment) why you carefully marshall your point of view, with links and statistics as need be. Then when I (or anyone else) make a misleading claim, you can just link to that post. No need to retype what you have typed before.
hwc says:
I'm not ignoring your questions. I wrote a long answer and lost it when the submit failed. Arrrghh. I'll only recreate two portions.
I believe that an outsider observer would look at three key characteristics of a state of the art community engagement effort:
a) A unified community engagement center on campus, well-funded, with a permanent staff, and a director with clout (reassigned faculty member, former provost, former dean, etc.). Of course, these are typically associated with an interested alumni donor!
b) Community engagement integrated into the curriculum. This was touched on at Williams in the discussion of Williams in NY and is a trendy direction in academia. Here's an example of such courses. Link to community engagement course offerings and a study abroad program
c) Availability of grant money to encourage entrepreunial community engagement projects, requiring formal grant proposals so that students, with the help of the professional staff, learn how to structure and present NGO grant applications. War News Radio and Pemion Health in Venezuela were both funded with such grants.
As far as how to such programs get started, here's the story of War News Radio according to the New York Times. The idea came from an alum who was a 60 Minutes producer and remembered a similar college program in the Vietnam War. He approached a history professor who agreed to push the idea, including course credit in the same way that members of musical ensembles receive course credit. The college and community service covered the purchase of $100,000 of equipment and the hiring of a veteran NPR producer to mentor (or coach, if you like) the student-journalists.
hwc says:
I don't think "hours" is the optimum metric for measuring community engagement efforts. In fact, I'm sure it's not. The students actively involved in this stuff work at it ridiculous hours, some essentially full time — often to the detriment of their school work. That's another issue. Colleges that value this stuff have to make allowances as some of these start-up projects literally evolve into NGOs while the students are still nominally enrolled in college.
sophmom says:
Dave @ 55:
With all due respect, that comment was from Vicarious '83, and it was on the Peck thread, which I already praised and cited as having been posted in a very different manner than the two posts by Anon Fac Member.
And even if you can find positive responses to these two threads, does that mean you should ignore the (many more) criticisms and expressions of dismay? You yourself refuted AFM in the first post, and again in the second post. So much so, that I wonder at the intentions of a professor who would make so many seemingly misinformed statements, allow herself to be refuted many times over, and then return and do exactly the same thing in a second thread. It seems very irresponsible on her part, and unbelievably forgiving on yours, especially considering the standards to which you hold all of your bloggers.
It doesn't mean that there hasn't been meaningful discussion here. But I think if you can demand of your bloggers, to…
"carefully marshall your point of view, with links and statistics"
… then you might be a bit more demanding of the claims made by your anonymous sources. It only seems fair.
JeffZ says:
This discussion has been particularly illuminating.
To sum up:
(1) the original claim which led to the tangential discussion was HWC's attempt (and he can deny it all he wants, but it is right there in black and white in comment 10 as well as other comments on this thread, as well as innumerable analogous claims made in the past) to link a higher participation in varsity athletics at Williams to a lower participation in community service activities. Neither HWC nor anyone else has provided any evidence that this is true. I have, on the other hand, provided at least some anecdotal evidence of the proliferation of team-oriented community service activities occurring on and off campus. While it is an obvious point that anyone who devotes [x] hours to one activity can not devote those same hours to any other activity, I don't hear anyone saying Williams should have fewer students doing theses or taking lab science classes because it will detract from their community service opportunities. And I've seen no evidence that, in the spare time / offseasons they do have, athletes are any less likely to be engaged with the community. Until such evidence is produced, I expect to see no further claims of this nature from HWC (or other anonymous posters).
(2) HWC, a self-proclaimed expert on community involvement / engagement, picked presumably the very best examples he could find from peer institutions. Yet, Soph Mom (the Maine program) and myself (the Iraq grant / program, the national-level awards won by Will Bruce, the Alabama tax endeavor) were able to find examples that are, at the very least, just as "world class" occurring at or immediately upon graduation from Williams, both in the curriculum and outside, despite our far more limited knowledge of this topic. I am guessing there are more outstanding endeavors by Williams students / recent alums with which I am not familiar. This doesn't prove that Williams can not or should not do MORE to encourage students to engage in the community — indeed, I think Williams could and should. But to suggest that Swarthmore students and alums are doing "world class" work while Williams students are not is laughable, in particular based on the concrete examples in this thread. We've seen a few examples of such work by each, and maybe more at Swarthmore are heavily engaged in service learning / service projects (I'm even willing to grant that is likely considering that Swarthmore pushes this theme), but nothing offered in this thread has demonstrated any difference between Williams or any other of its peers in this regard. And even assuming there is some demonstrable difference between Williams and ONE of its peers (I've yet to see any), that doesn't mean Williams is, in general, deficient relative to its larger peer group.
The point is that the athletic excellence at Williams has not prevented it from excelling, relative to ANY liberal arts school, in other arenas — inarguably, the arts and academics, and at least potentially, and certainly in the case of certain students actually, community service / engagement. Again, I am NOT claiming this is not an area that is perfect as-is, but I AM claiming that there is nothing at all fundamentally incompatible with excellence in BOTH athletics and this arena, just as Williams has been able to simultaneous achieve excellence in athletics, science/math, and the arts.
(3) Let's not forget that Williams DOES have an office for community engagement with dedicated office space, website, programming, etc., DOES have at least one well-regarded administrator focused on these issues, DOES have a vast, very active body of community service organizations on campus, DOES have a substantial portion of campus engaged in some form of community service / engagement, DOES support some novel experiential learning opportunities during Winter Study, and DOES support things like spring break service trips. Now, again, I'd love to see more — maybe a big push one year, for example, for a large percentage of the student body to collectively commit to spend one spring break doing a service trip, or other creative ideas. But no one has produced any evidence that Williams is in some way below-par in this regard relatively to, generally, its peer institutions, let alone that participation levels in athletics are somehow responsible for Williams being below par.
If you really care about these issues, rather than trying to make ill-founded claims about athletics, I suggest you send an email lobbying the Presidential selection committee to make history of successfully promoting community engagement a priority in selection of the next President. Far better way to spend time than making specious claims about athletes and (as it turns out, incorrectly) smugly opining (without any actual knowledge of what Williams' students are engaged in) the community service / engagement of those who DO participate in these initiatives at Williams as somehow less substantial or impressive than similar initiatives by Swarthmore students.
hwc says:
So, I think we can safely count JeffZ as an alum who believes Williams has the right mix of institutional priorities.
That's what I've been trying to argue: that all major constituent groups are supportive of Williams' institutional priorities as they exist today and that a professor who believes the priorities are not ideal is probably at the wrong school. I see zero interest among any major constituent group (Trustees, Administration, students, and recent alums) to re-prioritize spending and effort at Williams. That's ideal to have everyone on the same page.
hwc says:
If you really care about these issues, rather than trying to make ill-founded claims about athletics, I suggest you send an email lobbying the Presidential selection committee to make history of successfully promoting community engagement a priority in selection of the next President.
Alternatively, I've simply accepted that "Williams isn't the right school" for my particular vision of institutional priorities. I recognize that the vast majority of Williams constituents are thrilled with the mix of priorities, I'm fine with that.
I share my views on the College's priorities at the appropriate time — when my class agent calls for the annual fund.
hwc says:
But no one has produced any evidence that Williams is in some way below-par in this regard relatively to, generally, its peer institutions, let alone that participation levels in athletics are somehow responsible for Williams being below par.
Nobody here has argued that Williams is "below par". My impression is that Williams is "about average" in community engagement. It is not "world class" or a leader in his area as it is in Div. III sports. It is not a particular strength of the College. That's all.
Ken asked what kinds of elements typify the programs of the current leaders in this field. I gave him three that are current hot button attributes of strong community engagement programs. I expect to see discussion of these in Williams accreditation reports.
I can't provide a link because The Williams Record archives are currently disfunctional. There was, however, a student petition drive and accompanying editorial last year calling for the College to address what the students felt were insufficient community engagement resources. Since I can't get to the archives, I can't evaluate the legitimacy of the complaints:
Dear reader, fellow Eph:
You may not have read Laura Christianson and Janna Gordon's article in the Record concerning the lack of support for community engagement at Williams College. As a member of the Lehman Council for Community Engagement, I ask you to please read their opinion and decide whether or not you would like to support our initiative and bring this to attention to the Williams College Board of Trustees.
If so, please sign our petition below by leaving your name and class year/role in the message section of this article.
"Dear Williams College Trustees:
We, members of the Williams College community, are concerned with the lack of institutional support for student involvement in public affairs and civic life. In order to provide a holistic liberal arts education, Williams College must encourage and streamline academic and extracurricular engagement with local, national, and global initiatives. We, as a College community must invest in preparing students to become active and knowledgeable citizens of the world.
The Undersigned"
Thank you for your help!
– The Lehman Council for Community Engagement
— Al Hu
frank uible says:
In my view, the turning of Williams into Swarthmore Light would significantly detract from the breadth of the array of LACs which would be available to college bound high school students. Forming everything in one's own image means certainly a less interesting universe and most probably a less virtuous one, irrespective of the image.
sophmom says:
I share my views on the College's priorities at the appropriate time — when my class agent calls for the annual fund.
Lord have mercy. Does he dial, put the phone on speaker, and settle in with a good book?
hwc says:
We usually have a nice chat. About his house being featured in the WaPo's christmas tree light feature. About our daughters in college. About Martha Coakley's march through the ranks of Massachusetts politics.
hwc says:
This got eaten by WordPress. I hope it's not a duplicate:
But no one has produced any evidence that Williams is in some way below-par in this regard relatively to, generally, its peer institutions, let alone that participation levels in athletics are somehow responsible for Williams being below par.
Nobody here has argued that Williams is "below par". My impression is that Williams is "about average" in community engagement. It is not "world class" or a leader in his area as it is in Div. III sports. It is not a particular strength of the College. That's all.
Ken asked what kinds of elements typify the programs of the current leaders in this field. I gave him three that are current hot button attributes of strong community engagement programs. I expect to see discussion of these in Williams accreditation reports.
I can't provide a link because The Williams Record archives are currently disfunctional. There was, however, a student petition drive and accompanying editorial last year calling for the College to address what the students felt were insufficient community engagement resources. Since I can't get to the archives, I can't evaluate the legitimacy of the complaints. Here's a link to the student guest post here on EphBlog:
My name is William Lee and I am a sophomore from Brooklyn, NY. I serve on the Lehman Council for Community Engagement, and we are working very closely with Lindsay Moore '09 to push for greater institutional support for student engagement with public affairs and community service. We were wondering if Ephblog could raise this issue in a post.
Last Wednesday, the Record published an op-ed by Laura Christianson and Janna Gordon, also on Lehman, which very succinctly explains what we are doing. There seems to be a general sentiment on campus that Williams students could be doing so much more with public affairs and community service, and that there is a severe lack of institutional support for students who do this kind of work. Currently, Williams' Center for Community Engagement employs only one part-time staff member, and simply does not have the capacity to effectively coordinate resources and expertise for students. By comparison, schools like Amherst, Swarthmore, Middlebury and Hamilton have endowed, multi-million dollar Centers for Community Engagement that employ up to eight full time staff members. The amazing work that Williams students do now with public affairs and community engagement could be exponentially greater and more closely integrated into the Williams experience if the College made an institutional investment in supporting student activism and service.
And, the actual petition:
"Dear Williams College Trustees:
We, members of the Williams College community, are concerned with the lack of institutional support for student involvement in public affairs and civic life. In order to provide a holistic liberal arts education, Williams College must encourage and streamline academic and extracurricular engagement with local, national, and global initiatives. We, as a College community must invest in preparing students to become active and knowledgeable citizens of the world.
The Undersigned"
PTC says:
1) Best data on participation is here. 36% of Williams students play on at least one varsity team. Few other colleges came anywhere near that figure.
That statistic is misleading… it does not take into account junior varsity… mostly lower classmen who will play varsity in the future. The REAL measure would be, at Williams, what % of the student body will eventually play Varsity sports or "is competing" to play Varsity… if you have that much competition to make a team… I bet well over half the student body, perhaps even ¾ or more, is competing to get on a varsity squad. That is an astounding %.
JeffZ says:
Well, PTC, generally, the people who play JV are divided into two categories: kids who are ALSO on a varsity roster (so they'd count in that figure anyway) but are allocated to JV during their frosh season, and then those who play for fun but never have any serious intention or expectation of playing varsity. I think there are a few sports where non-varsity roster players eventually make varsity, but that would be a very, very small handful, and I think concentrated primarily in football due to varsity roster limits imposed by NESCAC.
The figure often cited is that half the student body plays some form of competitive intercollegiate athletics — club, varsity, or jv — at some point during their four years at Williams. That includes sports like ultimate, rugby, etc.
And HWC, I am pretty sure I have seen similar letters (or heard similar concerns) voiced about institutional support for athletics — in particular, regarding some of the deficient facilities for track and a few other sports. That a few people voiced concerns means nothing about prioritization at Williams.
But at least you have backtracked some from your earlier, bolder claims. Not an uncommon pattern for certain posters on Ephblog — say something outlandish, unsupported (and often unsupportable), and overbroad, then when called out instead of just saying "I was wrong," claim that the overbroad claim was never made in the first place. Whatever. I will grant that Williams, as a whole, MAY not be a leader among liberal arts colleges in terms of community service and community engagement, and that some colleges place a greater institutional focus on these arenas (and in all events, Williams has room to improve in this regard), and I am glad that you have now admitted that there is no evidence that an emphasis on athletics necessarily detracts from a community service orientation, nor any evidence that athletes are less inclined towards community service, and that there is no evidence that Williams is generally deficient relative to its closest peers in terms of community service / community engagement. Let's leave it at that.
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Articles 1 - 4 of 4
Full-Text Articles in Social and Behavioral Sciences
What Will We Lose If The Trial Vanishes?, Robert P. Burns
What Will We Lose If The Trial Vanishes?, Robert P. Burns
Faculty Working Papers
The number of trials continues to decline andfederal civil trials have almost completely disappeared. This essay attempts to address the significance of this loss, to answer the obvious question, "So what?" It argues against taking a resigned or complacent attitude toward an important problem for our public culture. It presents a short description of the trial's internal structure, recounts different sorts of explanations, and offers an inventory of the kinds of wounds this development would inflict.
Moral Character, Motive, And The Psychology Of Blame, Janice Nadler, Mary-Hunter Morris Mcdonnell
Moral Character, Motive, And The Psychology Of Blame, Janice Nadler, Mary-Hunter Morris Mcdonnell
Faculty Working Papers
Blameworthiness, in the criminal law context, is conceived as the carefully calculated end product of discrete judgments about a transgressor's intentionality, causal proximity to harm, and the harm's foreseeability. Research in social psychology, on the other hand, suggests that blaming is often intuitive and automatic, driven by a natural impulsive desire to express and defend social values and expectations. The motivational processes that underlie psychological blame suggest that judgments of legal blame are influenced by factors the law does not always explicitly recognize or encourage. In this Article we focus on two highly related motivational processes – the desire ...
The Death Of The American Trial, Robert P. Burns
The Death Of The American Trial, Robert P. Burns
Faculty Working Papers
This short essay is a summary of my assessment of the meaning of the "vanishing trial" phenomenon. It addresses the obvious question: "So what?" It first briefly reviews the evidence of the trial's decline. It then sets out the steps necessary to understand the political and social signficance of our vastly reducing the trial's importance among our modes of social ordering. The essay serves as the Introduction to a book, The Death of the American Trial, soon to be published by the University of Chicago Press.
The Language Of Consent In Police Encounters, Janice Nadler, J.D. Trout
The Language Of Consent In Police Encounters, Janice Nadler, J.D. Trout
Faculty Working Papers
In this chapter, we examine the nature of conversations in citizen-police encounters in which police seek to conduct a search based on the citizen's consent. We argue that when police officers ask a person if they can search, citizens often feel enormous pressure to say yes. But judges routinely ignore these pressures, choosing instead to spotlight the politeness and restraint of the officers' language and demeanor. Courts often analyze the language of police encounters as if the conversation has an obvious, context-free meaning. The pragmatic features of language influence behavior, but courts routinely ignore or deny this fact. Instead ...


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Sony Ericsson are famed for their 8MP camera range and this one is no different, despite it's size it whacks a sturdy punch in the smartphone arena.
Don't be put off by the screen size as the resolution far outweighs any other of this size and infact some of the bigger screens too.
New Style Land of Droid Video
The review of the handset should be online in the not too distant future however for now you can watch the video and send any questions you have to firstname.lastname@example.com
Key Specifications:
- 111 x 53 x 9.4 mm
- 100 g
- 3.3 inch LED Backlit LCD with Bravia Technology
- 480 x 584 Pixels
- Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/n
- 8 MP Rear Facing Camera with autofocus & LED flash
- 720p Recording
- Front Facing VGA Camera
- Android 2.3 (Gingerbread)
- 1GHz Scorpion CPU
- Adreno 205 GPU
- 1500 mAh Battery
What's your reaction?
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John McKenzie
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Just a quick test post, it'll be deleted soon but to test, this needs testing.
Google Offering 6 Months of Free Netflix with Pixelbook, Chromebook Plus and Pro
Freebies, we all love a freebie right? Well Google have announced that they are offering 6 months of the "Two Screens at a Time Streaming Plan" for people who purchase a Google Pixelbook, Samsung Chromebook Plus or Pro. Now it does look like this is available both in the UK and the US according to the […]
OnePlus Begin 1 Hour Shipping in UK via Amazon Prime
The OnePlus 2 failed to reach the dizzy sales heights of its predecessor the One and despite that fact (and the fact that the OnePlus 3 is expected to be announced imminently) the Shenzen based company are still trying to offload the older stock of these handsets. In an email sent out yesterday the company […]
Another Oneplus 2 update rolls out from today
I guess one of the advantages of having a handset made by a company with so few products is that their developers get to spend a whole heap of time fixing any bugs. Today Oneplus have started rolling out a second incremental update for their latest device with a promise of a more substantial update […]
First custom ROM lands for Oneplus 2 following kernel source release
Earlier today OnePlus released the kernel source for their controversial second handset, the OnePlus 2. In doing so they have opened the floodgates for ROM developers to start releasing custom ROM's based on their own stock ROM as well other bases like AOSP & Cyanogenmod. The first ROM to hit the XDA developers site is […]
Watch Three's New #makeitright Marketing Campaign
If you have watched TV in the UK over the past 2 years you will be under no illusion that the team behind the Three UK marketing adverts are genius. The latest campaign which airs its first TV advert later tonight during the Big Brother TV on Channel 5 show features a character by the […]


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Tips For Searching For A Top Quality Pipes Professional In Your Local Areage water heater repair by-Berthelsen Lauridsen
You won't be finding the appropriate pipes repair service service provider just by having all the best. It might take a lot of job to find the right individual if you aren't even sure what you are searching for. Without this synopsis, it is going to be virtually difficult to understand whether the regional professional will exercise. This info could aid you find the right professional for you.
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http://modesto76yong.total-blog.com/tips-for-finding-a-high-quality-pipes-specialist-in-your-area-20615297 are still a great way to identify neighborhood pipes repair work professionals. You can create a checklist of service providers that you would love to meeting or research study additionally. The economic details, that include the repayment routine, are an essential part of the composed contract. Do not hesitate to ask your contractor or their employees to clean if the location of their work is beginning to end up being a little bit as well unpleasant looking.
Make your hopes obvious when it entails discussing with a possible pipes repair professional. Possible contractors must duplicate your vision and also assumptions in their own words to avoid miscommunication. To be on schedule, you ought to establish a timeline and set it with the specialist. A composed agreement including all details agreed upon by both celebrations should be signed prior to job commences.
If your pipes fixing contractor will certainly be working around your pets, allow him or her recognize. If your pet dog animal will bring disturbances or disrupt his tasks, obtain a short-lived home elsewhere. Having a pet in a workspace can place both the pet and also the staff members at risk.
Before a licensed pipes repair work professional agrees to do a work for you, he or she'll need to discover every information of your project in order to offer you with one of the most informed suggestions about it. See to it the plumbing company has sufficient opportunity to ask inquiries and also validate individual products in the agreement. If you connect regularly, you could be guaranteed the plumbing company will have the work done appropriately. The very best communication is continuous as well as goes two methods, which might assist you avoid misconceptions.


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Super Brutal Soccer
- Click the i-icon top left in the Chrome address bar.
- In the Flash dropdown, select 'Always Allow ..'
- Refresh the page.
Super Brutal Soccer
movement: arrows, shooting / attack - SHIFT
Play football, which there will be no shortage of brutal scenes. Here, players cas use weapons during the match.
100% 4.7k plays
Published: May 1st, 2018 HTML5 In this soccer game, you'll be using swords instead of your feet.
80% 13.2k plays
Published: Oct 29th, 2013 Flash Kick the ball and destroy disgusting creatures.
100% 10.0k plays
Published: Nov 11th, 2012 Flash Play soccer on a rope in this crazy game.
73% 2.1k plays
Published: Jun 16th, 2020 HTML5 Another installment of the Toon Cup game, where you'll be playing football with cartoon characters.
91% 3.1k plays
Published: Apr 20th, 2020 HTML5 Score as many goals as you can in this online sports game.
81% 1.8k plays
Published: Apr 14th, 2020 HTML5 An online sports game where you will be trying to score.
74% 2.8k plays
Published: Feb 5th, 2020 HTML5 Play a game of soccer and score as many goals as possible.
94% 3.7k plays
Published: Jan 16th, 2020 HTML5 Dodge your opponents and score a goal in each of the levels.
81% 4.0k plays
Published: Dec 4th, 2019 HTML5 Pick your team and play football in this online game.
83% 3.4k plays
Published: Nov 15th, 2019 HTML5 Play a game of soccer with weird physics.
77% 2.5k plays
Published: Jun 25th, 2019 HTML5 Get rid of all the obstacles from the playing field by kicking your ball into them.
92% 18.9k plays
Published: Jun 6th, 2019 HTML5 Play football in the newest Toon Cup game.
85% 10.6k plays
Published: Apr 30th, 2019 HTML5 Another football game, where you will be playing as a coach.
88% 6.6k plays
Published: Apr 30th, 2019 HTML5 Try to score as many goals as you can in this sport game.
80% 17.1k plays
Published: Apr 15th, 2019 HTML5 Shoot the ball as far as possible in this football online game.
82% 6.9k plays
Published: Apr 3rd, 2019 HTML5 Play football in an arena and destroy your opponents.
79% 21.5k plays
Published: Apr 2nd, 2019 HTML5 Pick a national team and play this 3D football game.
73% 6.1k plays
Published: Mar 29th, 2019 HTML5 All you need to win in this game is aim well and victory will be yours.
77% 8.8k plays
Published: Feb 26th, 2019 HTML5 Try out just how difficult it can get to lead a football team in this online game.
84% 6.7k plays
Published: Jan 25th, 2019 HTML5 Score as many goals as you can from your penalty kicks.
New Games
73% 685 plays
Published: Jul 3rd, 2020 HTML5 The fifth sequel to the game Vex, where you will again try to get to the finish in the shortest possible time.
100% 1.2k plays
Published: Jul 2nd, 2020 HTML5 Try a great game for motocross fans and win all the races.
71% 1.5k plays
Published: Jun 30th, 2020 HTML5 Puzzle game where you have to figure out a way to destroy all the boxes on the platform.
50% 973 plays
Published: Jun 29th, 2020 HTML5 Fire bubbles of the same color and remove them all from the board.
77% 2.2k plays
Published: Jun 29th, 2020 HTML5 Action online game where you have to overcome many obstacles to escape from prison.
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Published: Jun 26th, 2020 HTML5 An action 3D game where humans will be fighting with dinosaurs.
Popular Games
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Published: Jan 21st, 2020 HTML5 Play a 1v1, build up platforms and kill your enemies.


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Find local BMW Dealers and BMW Certified Inventory by entering your ZIP code
10999 SW Canyon Rd
Beaverton, OR 97005-1818
Sales: (503) 748-5400
CARFAX 1-Owner. Nav System, Heated Leather Seats, Moonroof, Turbo Charged Engine, Premium Sound System, Satellite Radio, Back-Up Camera, All Wheel Drive, COLD WEATHER PACKAGE, APPLE CARPLAY COMPATIBILITY, DRIVING ASSISTANCE PACKAGE
Navigation, Sunroof, All Wheel Drive, Back-Up Camera, Turbocharged, Premium Sound System, Satellite Radio, iPod/MP3 Input, Onboard Communications System, Keyless Start, Dual Zone A/C, Hands-Free Liftgate, Heated Leather Seats Rear Spoiler, Leather Seats, MP3 Player, Keyless Entry, Steering Wheel Controls.
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CARFAX 1-Owner
Kuni BMW is the largest BMW Center in Oregon. At Kuni BMW we take a tremendous amount of pride in the relationships we develop with our clients. The philosophy at Kuni BMW has always been to hire the most dedicated, professional
Sale price may include any or all applicable offers.
10999 SW Canyon Rd
Beaverton, OR 97005-1818
(0 Miles)
Sales: (503) 748-5400
Year: 2018
Make: BMW
Model: M550i xDrive
Price: $43,278
Mileage: 54,203
Engine: V8
Exterior Color: Black Sapphire Metallic
Interior Color: Black Nappa Leather
Fuel Type: Gasoline
Stock #: TJB035886
City MPG: 16
Hwy MPG: 25
Featured Options
Cold Weather Package
Driving Assistance Package
Driving Assistance Plus Packag
Dynamic Handling Package
Parking Assistance Package
20" M wheel 668M w/ perf rft
Space-saver spare
Rear sunshades
Fineline Ridge Wood Trim
Apple CarPlay Compatibility
Gesture Control
Tier 2
Included Packages
Cold Weather Package
Driving Assistance Package
Driving Assistance Plus
Dynamic Handling Package
Parking Assistance Package
Additional Options
20" M wheel 668M w/ perf rft
Space-saver spare
Rear sunshades
Fineline Ridge Wood Trim
Apple CarPlay Compatibility
Gesture Control
Tier 2
CO2 relevant vehicles
Tire pressure monitor
Power tailgate
Universal garage-door opener
Comfort Access keyless entry
Without Lines designation
Multi-contour seats
40/20/40 Split Rear Seat
SensaTec Dashboard
Auto dimming driver ext mirror
Adaptive Full LED Lights
Additional 12-V power sockets
Automatic High Beams
Active Protection
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SIRIUS radio capable
ConnectedDrive Services
Advanced RTTI
Remote Services
Enhanced USB and Bluetooth
WiFi Hotspot with comp 3 M
Increased top speed limiter
Oil Chg 10,000 mls/12 months
Variable Light Decoding
Daytime driving lights
Shipping package
Transport protection
Carbon Fiber Mirror Caps
Wheel Locks - Spline Style