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Naruto 503 Breakdown: The day the village stood still. Demotivational poster and official debate (plus last week's results…oh, wait, there aren't any) inclusive. Boomshakalaka!
*drops a beat*
I gotta feelin'…that tonight's gonna be a good night
That tonight's gonna be a good night
That tonight's gonna be a…
Hello, hello, WRA and creepo stalkers who never comment! You are cordially welcome to this week's Naruto breakdown which is the latest of the three as per usual. This time it's not my fault, I swear! I've been having a blast with the new Divorced Barbie. Yea, so what I have indulgences! This one comes with all Ken's stuff. >_>
I'm feeling especially chipper tonight, and no, it isn't what your dirty little mind is probably thinking. I may suddenly freeze mid-sentence and faceplant asleep for a few days, but who the frack cares? Tonight's the night! Let's live it up!
Isn't it lovely? A pleasant image of life in the Uzumaki family. Unfortunately, things never did turn out quite so merry. Smiles exchanged for frowns; laughs exchanged for tears; cold in place of warmth, and hatred for love. I see these sort of portraits, and I can't help but to wonder about Naruto. What could have been.
The chapter illustrates the miserable events that shook the village at its very center, and turned the life of one newborn completely around. Where many will say for the worse, I happen to think otherwise. We can only imagine how happy a family, minus the involvement of the villain that turned it all to waste. But to every truth, there is a 'however'. And while Naruto may never know the feeling of a ham sandwich over expired milk, he has learned how to stick it out and developed the physical and mental fortitude to carry on with his head screwed on tight. This is what makes him so powerful. And having been through the pain, there will come the joy: a joy far more gratifying than any other.
The time will come. And until then, we'll be moving on from the cover page now. >_>
And so comes the all-important question: WTF?!
Not many had spotted it initially, but you can see it now from the picture above. This won't be the first time it's happening, either.
Then comes the next question: WTF?!!
First, he pops off his right arm like an angry 11-year-old on an unsuspecting naked doll, then he takes an extra-large-Jawbreaker-size Rasengan to the back and lives long enough for some more bad guy "I'll be back" monologue. Oh, but not before his left hand goes running back to its rightful place in The Addams Family.
Once again, I ask…WTF?!!!
All this evidence points in one direction, and it becomes apparent that the Masked Man's body is far from normal. And now the question is: what on earth is he made of?
For me, the first thought that comes to mind is that Masky could actually could be the real Madara. How else could he live for so long if his body weren't still flesh and blood? I don't suppose he found the Philosopher's Stone under his pillow one night. Nah, Kishi wouldn't take the plotkai approach.
If you catch my drift, you're probably right now picturing Madara as more like Sasori: a human puppet, but no strings attached. He somehow maintains his being inside a container devoid of the conventional biological human makeup.
And when he and Itachi say he's just a shell of his former self…it ain't no figure of speech…
That being said, what if there are strings attached? Is it possible that a new figure is controlling this inhuman 'body' from the background; calling all the shots?
In effect, the man in the mask is probably a
high-tech cyborg that's powered by Coke and farts from its hands proxy representing the real villain. It may also explain the mask. And figuratively speaking, Tobi as we know him would a 'mask' of the true villain.
It isn't a far cry from Nagato's technique, minus the Black Rods of Emo, so it may come off as cheap imitation. I mean, it's not like Kishi has ever spammed the unique abilities of certain clans on other random charac– never mind…
The questions continue to stack and the answer remains hidden. This keeps up and we may have to employ the help of the Oracle.
One more subject illuminated by the chapter is that of Bijuu immortality and how they remain even after their Jinchuuriki dies.
First off, one thing should be gotten clear: Bijuu are simply chakra beasts. They are made entirely of chakra, and there's also evidence to back that up.
Minato sealed away half of the Kyuubi's chakra. The Kyuubi is chakra. Effectively, it should become two times smaller, no?
Again, compare other pictures of before the Kyuubi was sealed and afterward. The difference becomes clearer.
I don't suppose chakra can die. Kill stuff, yea, but not die. >_>
If you think about it, too, The Kyuubi never bleeds. Now if he found himself a smoking hot vixen, I bet he'd be bleeding all kinds…but that's another story…>_>
There are a few questions called to mind in that case.
- Why did Akatsuki need their Bijuu medium rare and not well done? Well, if the Bijuu 'died' there is a time lag before it is 'reborn'. Seeing as time was of the essense, quite possibly, this would throw a wrench in the plan…the Moon's Eye Plan, that is. @__@
- Why was the Kyuubi afraid of Naruto dying? The time it takes for a beast to return from its temporary 'removal' remains unknown. For all we know, it could take centuries. The Kyuubi possibly would rather take his chances at turning Naruto emo and breaking free than waking up in 3010 to find that Backstreet Boys has broken up…FOREVER! ;_____;
- Why am I using bullet points? Well, they are simple, convenient, cutesy-looking and– why the hell are we talking about this? -__-
Oh, guys, did I forget to mention how awesome this chapter was? Why? For me, the reason is no more than the last seven pages. While it was saddening watching as Konoha shinobi put their lives on the line and lost as they fought valiantly to protect their village and their will, the final scenes easily took the prize as the most heartbreaking.
I can't bring myself to edit any of the pictures there, and that's saying a lot.
But, dear reader, keep your sleeves up and Kleenex nearby, because the most depressing is yet to come.
Good job this week, guys! I actually had a hard time choosing the top five, but here they are.
5) It's a tie! I'm not trying to cop out! >_>
Bubble: WOOAAAAAHHH!! Oh I see Ichiraku's from here .
Caption: Skydiving, they do it differently in Konoha, up instead of down, without parachute even X___X
Bubble: Hopefully that hard cement will break my f…
Caption: Some positives should be taken with a grain of salt
4) Alec
Bubble: Help i've fallen and I can't get up!!!
Caption: All Konoha ninja need life alert…
3) Eke2k6
bubble: i hear the pit pit patter of the rockdrops, i feel the conc conc con-cu-ssion.
caption: kyuubi chakra + H20 = falling rocks
2) Blackbaron
"Did he fire six shots, or only five?!!"
Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is Kyuubi, the most powerful Bijuu in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
Uuuh, looks like Baron's been knocked off the #1 spot.
So who's the winner?…*drum roll*
Congrats to 会長加賀 Chairman Kaga !
And here's this week's material.
I think they're pointing at YOU. @__@
Here it is: the first in weeks.
No polls this time. All I want to see is BLOOD!
Killing yourself is only a win when you're emo, and Deidara doesn't qualify as one, so self-destructo makes it a draw. And if he still misses his target after that, that makes it a fail. >_>
Alright, I'm outta here.
Sayonara, suckas!
Tell me your own politik.
~ by Captain Pickles on July 25, 2010.
Posted in Mangas, Naruto, Naruto Manga Breakdown, New Manga, weareawesomeness
Tags: Naruto, Naruto 503 breakdown, Naruto 503 discussion, Naruto 504 spoilers, Naruto debate, Naruto demotivational poster, Naruto Manga, we are awesomeness, weareawesomeness, WRA
263 Responses to "Naruto 503 Breakdown: The day the village stood still. Demotivational poster and official debate (plus last week's results…oh, wait, there aren't any) inclusive. Boomshakalaka!"
Ore-sama no SHodai
kantonkage said this on July 25, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Nice breakdown Pickles that was too funny.
Oh and that reminds me HOW DARE YOU TURN ORE-SAMA INTO ASSUKE *Fires multiple flaming boulders at Pickles*
kantonkage said this on July 25, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Now about the debate: I say Deidara since he has better range and the elemental advantage as well as better maneuverability.
kantonkage said this on July 25, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Niidaime! I get random jutsus every 10 chapters! 😀
Sweet breakdown Pickles, but I think only the Jubi and Kyuubi can be revived once the Jinchuriki dies. I'll explain once I secure my # 2 spot
kisuzachi said this on July 25, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Now as I was saying, the Jubi apparently releases immediately as the person dies, the Kyubi takes at least over 16 years, otherwise it would have let Naruto die. But here's the fun part, both the Kyubi and Juubi are monstrously strong. Minato said its incomprehensible to seal the entire Kyubi (and since the Juubi is stronger…well u get the point), so he sealed half. Now the other Biju are not this powerful and their Jinchuriki get all their power, so that's why I think all the other Biju die when their Jinchuriki die.
As for the thing about their bodies, I think them manga shows how physical the bodies are. The Biju ARE chakra monsters, but their bodies apparently arent just pure chakra, otherwise when the Hachibi ran out of chakra gaainst Kisame, it would cease to exist, would it not? And the Jubi's body would disppear, yet it still lives in the moon despite not having its chakra.
Btw, the Kyubi's size is as inconsistent as Bleach's plot. We know Gamabunta is ass big as the buildings in Konoha, yet in this chapter he's as big as the Kyubi, despite the buildings barely reaching the Kyubi's knees.
Just my incoherent ramblings >_>
Ah, but that's that's exactly what I mean. They are living manifestations of chakra. So they maintain certain level physical attributes such as fur and hide and others as the one Shadowaid mentioned, but still are based off of just chakra. Think Homonculus from FMA.
Oh, and Gamabunta was only as big as the Kyuubi's head. 😉
kisuzachi said this on July 25, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Dang it i have to agree with kisuzachi about the tailed beast being more than just chakra. Besides the tailed beast have personalities and to my knowledge we have not seen any chakra with a personality.
How can the size of the tailed beast be as inconsistent as bleaches plot when there is no plot in bleach???
shadowaid said this on July 25, 2010 at 7:37 pm
sorry for the double post but if deidara commits suicide like he did against emo boy is it considered a loss or a win.
Oh, I forgot to remember to add that to the post when I decided he'd be fighting. Thanks for the reminder to remember. X__X
shadowaid said this on July 25, 2010 at 7:39 pm
Bubble: OK let's show these Whippersnappers what were made of CHAAARGGE!!!!
Caption: We put our elderly in nursing homes. Konoha puts them on the front line. Well, there gonna die soon regardless.
kantonkage said this on July 25, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Bubble: I want YOU!
Caption: For Konoha Ninja's nearest recruiting station.
Gavin said this on July 25, 2010 at 8:07 pm
Great breakdown! Cool demotivational poster. I think he is the official "Hokage's No. 1 Brand Toilet Paper" carrier..
Woohoo! I won!hahaha!
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 25, 2010 at 8:16 pm
@shadowaid, u got me there bud 😉
@Kisame vs Deidara, I hate to be a physics nerd here, but water slows down anything that travels through it, including explosions. Kisame could probably contain Deidara's blasts using his Suiton. Then if he transforms into his full fishman form he can absorb Deidara's chakra much more easily. I see Kisame winning this, even though Didara has .5 more for his stat total than Kisame >_>
kisuzachi said this on July 25, 2010 at 8:17 pm
hahaha not related to anything (minus our love for anime) everyone needs to hear this song lol
urisas said this on July 25, 2010 at 10:00 pm
Assuming the fight will be underwater like Bee's, I vote Kisame. Deidara's clay may not even work underwater, it may not be able to detonate when it's wet or something. And like Kisu said everything is slower underwater, Kisame would easily be able to avoid his clay bird-bombs and the like. Deidara is not a close-range fighter Kisame is, and Kisame has a huge speed advantage underwater. Kisame could maneuver around Deidara's bombs and get close. Kisam could also just let time run out until Deidara runs out of breath. Now assuming Kisame chooses not to submerge the battle it would be a tough call. I would still however would say Kisame, mainly because of the HUGE chakra advantage he has. One thing though is in Deidara's favor. If he took to the air before Kisame could drown the battlefield, he would almost certainly win. Kisame has not been shown to have many attacks that could hit Deidara in the sky. Deidara could also (knowing he could win no other way) just fly up and nuke the area. Obviously Kisame has water element chakra, but someone his level should have at least two types. It's not far-fetched that he could have lightning element chakra as well. water and lightning elements make a great combo.
Amaterasu77777 said this on July 25, 2010 at 10:03 pm
If Kisame had lightning element as well, there is no contesting who would win.
Amaterasu77777 said this on July 25, 2010 at 10:05 pm
@urisas, wtf?
kisuzachi said this on July 25, 2010 at 11:32 pm
If deidara had poison bombs = curb-stomp
kantonkage said this on July 25, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Double what Kisu said.
kantonkage said this on July 25, 2010 at 11:41 pm
What do mean poison bombs? Do you mean like mixing rat poison into his clay, or like a poison smoke bomb, or something else? The smoke bomb wouldn't work under water, and liquid poisons would be extremely diluted so they probably wouldn't work either. And again with Kisame having such massive chakra, he probably wouldnt feel the full force of the poison and would fight it off quickly.
Amaterasu77777 said this on July 25, 2010 at 11:53 pm
Bubblition: Just point and stare guys. Maybe it'll go away
Caption: When the fourth is gone and there's no one strong enough to fight a tailed beast, resort to kindergarten tactics.
eke2k6 said this on July 26, 2010 at 12:42 am
@Amaterasu77777: Deidara was able to make a fish type clay bomb, he actually used it to capture the 3 tailed beast.. I think i saw it in shippuuden 112 and chapter 317 in manga http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/04/
Still, i believe that deidara's a$$ will be handed to him by kisame.. The power and experience gap is just too vast…
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 26, 2010 at 12:47 am
@Kisame/Deidara debate
I think deidara's bombs would go off underwater, its not like the bombs have a fuse that must be lit, Deidara is the one who controls when a bomb is to be set off. Also, who knows what kind of clay creatures Deidara could come up with. He is an "artist" he could, theoretically, create fish bombs or other underwater animal-shaped bombs.
So Gamabunta was about the size of the Kyuubi's head. And Shukaku was close to or slightly bigger than Gamabunta (as shown here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/01/ ) … Would it be safe to say that the amount of power each bijuu have determines its size?
bbgurly14 said this on July 26, 2010 at 1:27 am
Nice breakdown Pickles. It was getting pretty deep there, and I like deep. ^ ^
Anyway, as for the debate, I think we should take Deidara's performance against the three tails into consideration here. The three tails is a Bijuu of the water element and Kisame is essentially someone with the chakra of a Bijuu who can also use the water element. The biggest differences are that Kisame is far more intelligent than the Sanbi and he has the Samehada.
None-the-less, we can still take Deidara's success against the Sanbi into factor here. From the brief glimpse of the battle we do get, we see him use a large explosive fish to pwn the Sanbi. Now, whether this would work against Kisame is questionable, but what it does show is that Deidara can shape his explosives for use in any situation and even for varying terrain, water included.
We also know he can create explosives of varying speeds, some being very fast. This means he could effectively combat Kisame even if he turns the battlefield into an ocean, and the best part is that he could do it from a very safe distance.
Now, that being said, Kisame still has ways to counter Deidara's attacks, like absorbing the chakra from explosives as they reach him, thus making them useless. He could even assume his "perfect form" by fusing with the Samehada to give him a great overall defense. So basically, we now have both parties fighting a battle of endurance, with both having no sure way of defeating the other. In terms of endurance, Kisame obviously has the advantage, but who's to say whether Deidara couldn't find a way around his defense like he did with Gaara? He would most certainly have enough time to figure things out.
In the end, I am going to call a tie, at least until I can think of a good reason the advantage would tip significantly to one or the other.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 26, 2010 at 1:37 am
BTW this chapter had a fantastic, good old Kishi moment. *ahem*
Kurenai's daddy: "You are a ninja and you won't live forever…But, my daugher… you are a woman. At least pass the spirit of fire on to my future grandchildren!"
bbgurly14 said this on July 26, 2010 at 1:41 am
He already did create fish bombs..hehehe..
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/05/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/04/
I guest its not the size, cause if that's the case then the 2 tails would be pretty weak…
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 26, 2010 at 1:55 am
@Tenrai – "He would most certainly have enough time to figure things out" – If he was underwater he wouldn't have much time at all. He would have to keep moving away from Kisame because he wouldn't stand a chance close range,and moving takes a lot of oxygen.
I dont see how anyone can escape Kisame once they're underwater, he moves at a high speed underwater. There's no way for human to escape a shark. Not that Kisame is as fast as a shark, but he's certainly much faster than human. Once you're underwater its pretty much a forced close range fight. Once in that close range not only are you running out of breath, but your chakra is constantly draining as well. In short once you're underwater (unless you have special set of skills like bee's hachibi mode in which he inked the water and could keep up with Kisame's speed) it's pretty much game over. I think the only way Deidara would stand a chance is if he took to the air imediately, which he usually does.
Amaterasu77777 said this on July 26, 2010 at 3:52 am
*, which he probably would.
Amaterasu77777 said this on July 26, 2010 at 3:54 am
Deidara could make a clay though, which is faster than a shark, or any sea creature. But then, kisame is no ordinary person/fish. But nevertheless, he can create things he can use in water, much like the bird he was always using..
But still, deidara's a$$ will be handed to him by kisame.. The power and experience gap is just too vast…
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 26, 2010 at 4:15 am
Awesome Breakdown!!!
that song thing earlier WTF :O
Diedara vs Kisame. Well Depending obviously but I think close range Kisame, long Diedara. The water even if blast is on one side will create shock waves in the water displace the water slightly and that could work in Diedara's favor since he could detonate anywhere and still slightly affect Kisame, plus if Diedara has that massive bomb that attacks at an atom level.. So even though all saying Kisame, if Deidara is on that bird in the air how would Kisame attack him? With the Jutsu's we seen of Kisame, I think so, and if Diedara is put into a corner by Kisame he could just blow himself up
pein0avenue said this on July 26, 2010 at 4:53 am
Lol Again, great breakdown Fix.
Kisame is way better than that pale-skinned-explosive-tranny-barbie. Why?
1. He's still alive.
2. He has plans and thinks foreward. Ex. Killer Bee + His sword. 3. He's not that emo and stubborn to blow himself up.
4. He's not a pale-skinned-explosive-tranny-barbie, he's a cool-blue-skinned-shark.
That's the reason why Kisame would kick Deidara's as… hard. 😉
And also… HAPPY BIRTHDAY SUPER!!!! 😀 May your wishes come true.
– Love, your sis. (>^^)> ♥ <(^^<)
Kushina said this on July 26, 2010 at 5:01 am
@ Kushina –
1. Kisame is only alive cause he hasn't fought Sasuke yet, didn't you know technically if you haven't fought Sasuke you can't be defeated 😛 I mean really have a match Sasuke vs Kisame and plot no jutsu win everytime 😛
2. Bee wasn't exactly his plan, he was told what to do, so technically he was no better then an actor in a play and he had Zetsu's help with that one big time.
3. Diedara blowing up should of worked and would of if he was fighting anyone but Sasuke 😦
4. Emo's in Naruto are cool, Itachi, Naguto/Pein, Deidara, (except Sasuke) Even emo naru is pretty cool 😛 Odd the expression feeling a little Blue is usually sad :O
Dude its Supers Birthday!!! O_O Hope there is cake for me to eat… or maybe he getting to old for Cake hmmm, *gives Super some prune juice and gram crackers. Sends him to the shelter for old people*
pein0avenue said this on July 26, 2010 at 5:26 am
"Deidara could make a clay SAILFISH, which is faster than a shark, or any sea creature." Hahahah, just noticed i wasnt able to type it!
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 26, 2010 at 5:51 am
Nice breakdown, as always Pickles. I think the debate is really simple. If the Samehada can suck the chakra from Deidara's bombs, Kisame wins. If not, Kisame is easily blasted away because Deidara could always surround himself with bombs (at a certain distance of course) to stop Kisame from getting close. Now for the caption:
Bubble: Holy shit, a giant fox!
Caption: Even the best can succumb to fear.
Bubble: You're the one that insulted me, aren't you?
Caption: Street fights…who said ninja's fight fair?
Bubble: You go next!
Caption: The konoha council, sending others to do the work for them.
kiridorean said this on July 26, 2010 at 6:28 am
Everyone knows that sharks pwn birdies 😉
Kushina said this on July 26, 2010 at 6:50 am
That argument is based on the assumption that Deidara would be trapped in Kisame's water. Deidara could easily take to the sky in the time it would take for Kisame to flood the battlefield, and by then, he would be more than far enough away to stay clear of the water bubble. If he can outrun Gaara's sand in a desert full of the stuff, then I don't see why he couldn't escape Kisame's water just as easily.
Then, from there, it is as simple as dropping fish bombs into the water to attack Kisame.
However, as I said before, Kisame may be able to prevent the bombs from detonating by absorbing the chakra from them. However, as Pein0Avenue suggested, the shock wave from Deidara's blasts could effect Kisame from a distance. He could detonate them just outside of absorption range, while using a larger payload for bigger explosions. This power over quantity strategy could allow him to defeat Kisame.
Is Kisame more powerful than Deidara? I would say most certainly yes. However, in this match-up, Kisame is simply facing the wrong opponent for his abilities to be usable at full effect, which means who wins is not as clear an answer as it may have been in a different match-up.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 26, 2010 at 7:30 am
Bubble: We are Konoha!!!!
Caption: Shinobi… they pwn mages any day. <_<
(Fairy Tail readers will understand).
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 26, 2010 at 7:32 am
Bubble: We Are AWESOMENESS!!!!
Caption: But not as awesome as WRA!!! ^ ^
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 26, 2010 at 7:38 am
Bubble: OMG we all gonna be crushed!!!
Caption: by hinata's Giant boobs.
pein0avenue said this on July 26, 2010 at 7:53 am
@ Pein: lmao
Hinata's + Tsunade's fat boobs = Largest milk production in Konoha X__X
Kushina said this on July 26, 2010 at 8:44 am
Bubble: YOU'LL NEVER GET OUR PANCAKE MIX!!!
Caption: Pancake mix, Konoha's pride.
Kushina said this on July 26, 2010 at 8:52 am
anyone else see Naruto's mom's hair?? its divided into 9 Tail's… maybe that was her feature when she got mad
pein0avenue said this on July 26, 2010 at 10:17 am
and why does the third look like the joker @_@
pein0avenue said this on July 26, 2010 at 10:22 am
@ Pein0avenue
lol duude hiniata's a sperm cell right now. i call this extreme pedophilia
eke2k6 said this on July 26, 2010 at 11:22 am
I'd like to add Kisame can use his water to fly like Gaara uses his sand.
Kisame in the air on water: http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-256/03/
Kisame dealing with explosives: http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-256/08/
kisuzachi said this on July 26, 2010 at 11:45 am
lol! Comparing Tenten's explosives to Deidara's is like comparing a pebble to a mountain.
Also, Kisame is riding a wave, not flying. He is just creating a swell of water to lift himself higher, but that is not true flight. We have yet to see Kisame actually float in the air on water, with air between that body of water and the ground. This means that the height Kisame can achieve is limited by how much water he can produce, which will also be hindered by this wonderful force called gravity. The larger the body of water, the more difficult it would be for Kisame to move it or keep control. Even then Deidara can still just keep going higher at no stamina cost to himself. It is as simple as him as riding a breeze.
Gaara actually does fly with sand and we can see his sand act independently, without touching the earth, not like Kisame's water which has yet to be seen behaving in the same manner.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 26, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Nice job Pickles, very funny! 🙂 If a chakra monster can live, dying isn't to far of a stretch is it? A temporary death is still a death. ^_- I'd be surprised if mostly everyone didn't notice Madara's arm. XD
@Debate: I'm giving it to Deidara since he usually immediately takes to the air in any battle. Kisame is a close range fighter while Deidara is long. Plus he has this.
A bomb that can level an entire village and detonate at any time before Kisame sucks the chakra away. The only way Kisame can protect himself is if he previously made a large body of water and swims to the bottom of it. I don't believe that would be suitable protection from an explosion that large though, especially if the bomb detonates in the water. Underwater explosion are deadly mind you, just ask any submarine captain. 😉
Kisame can heal himself using his enemy's chakra but again, Deidara would be fighting him from afar. Not like how Naruto, Gai, or Killer Bee were close up to him.
@Kushina and Pein: THANK YOU!!! ^_^
supertrek89 said this on July 26, 2010 at 1:49 pm
@Superdude, Sasuke was a close range fighter no? lol wait, he has plot no jutsu on his side XD
@Tenrai, yeah, what was I thinking? I forgot rule no.1 of Naruto debates, NEVER use Tenten to back up your argument. Anyhoo, Kisame can generate a LOT of water, enough for him to be able to handle Deidara. And as long as chakra triggers these explosives, or even let them move, then they're fair game for our old friend Samehada 😀
kisuzachi said this on July 26, 2010 at 2:01 pm
@Kisu: Lol, not only did Sasuke have "plot-no-jutsu" to beat Deidara but also the right element and eyes. Which Kisame has neither. 😛
supertrek89 said this on July 26, 2010 at 2:04 pm
You are stubborn indeed, which is to be expected. It's amusing how we always seem to end up on the opposite side of a debate, even a simple battle debate.
But, as I said earlier, I am still not 100% decided on who would win, I was simply countering a point I feel was incorrect. Even now, you are still basing your argument on the assumption that Kisame could create that much water to gain that much height, even though we have not seen it yet.
In any case, Super already gave a solution for Kisame absorbing the chakra out of explosives. The explosive Deidara used on Suna has a massive damage area. All he needs to do is detonate it out of Kisame's absorption range. If he sees Kisame approaching the bomb, he can just detonate it prematurely.
Once the bomb goes off, chakra is no longer a factor. It is all physics from there, because explosive damage is in the force of the shock wave as opposed to any actual chakra discharge and a shock wave is caused by the collision of particles. That is also why shock waves are actually stronger under water than they are in the air, because the force dissipates quicker in the air.
Perhaps a new argument in Kisame's favor is needed. It's too bad we don't know about any really good examples of long range jutsu he may have.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 26, 2010 at 2:10 pm
@super He did have plot no jutsu but that was a one time only. So did Deidara also one time only.
kantonkage said this on July 26, 2010 at 2:18 pm
@pein I mentioned that last chapter
kantonkage said this on July 26, 2010 at 2:20 pm
@Ten, My counter-argument to that is actually pretty simple. Samehada has shown that it doesn't actually need contact to absorb chakra. And I think we're all forgetting Kisame has Earth chakra as well, so he could just go underground to escape the blast.
@Superdude, and yet all that can be summed up under plot no jutsu lol. What were the odds that he'd have the exact element needed to counter Deidara, and what were the odds that he happened to have the same kekkei genkai that would drive Deidara to commit suicide? lol
kisuzachi said this on July 26, 2010 at 3:01 pm
It's been a while since I've been on this site. Nice to see that not much has changed…
For those of you who know me (or knew me), I wrote an article for the Examiner.com site that mentioned that Shueisha (the Japanese company that publishes Weekly Jump) was going to start cracking down on scantilations (OneManga, Mangastream, etc.). Many thumbed their nose at this but…
I know many use mangastream for scantilation, but there are those that also use OneManga. In the next week, OneManga is shutting down – PERMANENTLY. Nope, this isn't one of Pickles' jokes. I went to One Manga to check out something and a dialog box popped up with the announcement.
Apparently Shueisha has started cracking down (legally) on unauthorized scantilations and One Manga decided to avoid being caught and will be shutting down. The forums will still be up but the translations for manga will NOT after next week. It isn't clear as to what Mangastream will be doing but be aware that OneManga, its main competitor, will no longer be around, at least for the manga. The issue at hand is the manga-ka and their rights to their own material – as well as seeing their material used/translated into things where the manga-ka's intent/meaning is lost.
This issue is the major reason I am no longer writing breakdowns for any site. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. However, I am sure that Trek and the gang will make sure that WRA is still up despite all of this. I'd hate to see this blog go down because some scummy lawyer in Tokyo or wherever got a wedgie up their arse over manga being shown somewhere…
綱手- Penny said this on July 26, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Much in the same way shock waves are carried further under water than they are in the air, the same can be said with similar relativity to greater densities, such as earth.
Think of how an earthquake works and how effectively a shock wave travels through the ground for up to thousands of miles from the epicenter.
Had a similar force been triggered in a body of air, the force would dissipate very quickly due to the freely moving molecules and lower density. Molecules are further apart and flow more freely, and essentially don't collide as much, so most of the force is lost over a comparatively short distance relative to the power released.
So, what I am essentially saying, once we take away the scientific jargon, is that Kisame would feel a bomb blast much more severely in a body of water than he would through a medium of air. In the same breath, he would also feel it a lot more underground as well, because the shock wave will travel further and faster through the denser medium.
It is the same in how sound travels faster through denser mediums. The only way Kisame would survive is if we went far enough underground to avoid the force completely. Although with smaller blasts, this is quite possible, we have seen Deidara's blasts form more than large enough craters to know that that would have to be pretty far down to avoid a shock wave of that power and to escape not only the primary blast, but also the shock wave traveling through the earth after it, which would likely shatter his bones to pieces.
As for absorbing chakra at a distance, we already know that the distance the Samehada can absorb from isn't more than maybe three meters at best. The explosive radius of Deidara's bombs can achieve a far greater distance than that, he simply has to detonate it before Kisame comes within range.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 26, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Yeah, some of us saw the message on Onemanga. All I can say is that I hope Mangastream doesn't meet the same fate. T__T
Anyway, good to see a comment form you again. I hope you are doing well.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 26, 2010 at 4:05 pm
"And creepo stalkers who never comment!"
Hey!! That's offensive! Not every creepo stalker never comments. I do it all the time!
*reads the rest of the breakdown. Laughs uncontrollably several times which results in a change of underwear. Stops at the Bubblition contest*
…. ! ….. What!!!….
*Destroys entire room after seeing the second!! spot*
*Logs on from another computer*
Congratulations 会長加賀 Chairman Kaga,…
Tsss, like he's something to get excited about. I can tell you what he does early in the morning, in the afternoon and sometimes at night too. And it ain't pretty… >__>
1redbaron1 said this on July 26, 2010 at 5:01 pm
All kidding aside. Awesome breakdown as always!
1redbaron1 said this on July 26, 2010 at 5:05 pm
@Penny: Yep, I remember reading that article. All I can say is that there are still a ton of other sites out there which will provide fans with scanned and translated mamga. Which is why I already started using links from another site because Onemanga will most likely be removing all of its manga and the links to the site won't work anymore.
Penny you're right, this won't stop the blog. It's a loss we'll feel though. Onemanga was one of the best… Nice to hear from you again! 🙂
@Tenrai: Very well said. ^_-
supertrek89 said this on July 26, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Bubble: AAAH it's Tenrai and he's come to eat us.
Caption: Beware of the bottomless pit.
kantonkage said this on July 26, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Wow this was one of the funniest breakdowns everrrr!! Congrats on a great job!
@ ANYONE: Well, after reading this chapter, i guess we have all received confirmation as to where the other half of the kyuubi's chakra went:
I know there was much speculation as to whether the other half as in sasuke especially with what karin had said when she recognized the similarity in naruto's darkness and sasuke's. And many people were hoping that wasnt the case. So now we see that the other half of the chakra was sealed away permanantly, as minato said. Now it's left to see what tobi/madara really is…
1angel2heart said this on July 26, 2010 at 7:58 pm
hahaha.. Bring it on!
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 26, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Bubble: Only you can prevent forest fires!
Ms.Mandi said this on July 26, 2010 at 9:58 pm
@Tenrai, my turn I suppose. AND you basically countered your argument for me 😀
"The only way Kisame would survive is if we went far enough underground to avoid the force completely"
So lets say Kisame creates his water dome, the Deidara drops his c3 into it and before it detonates Kisame escapes underground, you're telling me its powerful enough to destroy him despite it not being powerful to cause any collateral damage to Suna after Gaara simply put a shield above the village? Kisame has better defenses than that.
Also, we know the water is solely dependent on Kisame's chakra since it originates from his body, so it isnt far fetched to say he could shoot Water Shark Bombs at Deidara (and Deidara cant got too high or he'd suffocate and die, so simply saying he could go way high and dodge is not gonna fly with me) or keep firing bullets of water. This fight can very easily become a stalemate, Deidara cant get too close and neither can Kisame.
Btw, aren't the creatures Deidara makes are just masses of chakra? In that vein, I'd say the explosions come purely from his chakra, and if that's the case, the nthe explosions can also be absorbed, like any Katon Jutsu.
kisuzachi said this on July 26, 2010 at 11:55 pm
Kisu = prince of the Asspull
kisuzachi said this on July 27, 2010 at 12:02 am
His bombs are clay explosives infused with chakra, yes, but that doesn't mean the explosion is pure chakra. Remember, Yamato can use chakra for doton jutsu, but the earth itself is not chakra. Just because he is moving it doesn't change what it is so Kisame cannot just absorb the earth.
As for Deidara's bombs, they themselves are chakra enfused, but the explosion caused by them is a physical force. Like any bomb, a release of energy is required, but energy is converted from one form to another, I.E. Into kinetic energy. As for Kisame having better defences than Gaara, where is the proof for that statement? Yes, Gaara was able to save Suna, but remember, there was a gap between his sand and the village, so the shock of the blast was unable to continue travelling through. His sand is also chakra enfused in order to increase its defecive capability, because I can assure you, a wall of sand wouldn't be that effective otherwise.
Anyway, any bomb can be escaped by travelling far enough, that is true, but tell me kisu, how will Kisame win a battle if all he is doing is travelling further undercround? That seems counterproductive to me. So at best, your argument brings this battle to a tie, but I think you may need to start finding reasons as to how Kisame could win and not just how he can simply survive.
This is a good debate though. I am enjoying it.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 12:34 am
Guys, is the human xerox guy Homura Mitokado?
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 27, 2010 at 12:51 am
@Chairman Kaga
I also thought the same thing.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 1:14 am
"As for Kisame having better defences than Gaara, where is the proof for that statement?"
You misunderstood (or I just wasnt clear, i think its the latter lol). In the sense of defending against the C3, Kisame has a better defense. He can freely control the movement of his water so the shock-waves isnt really an issue.
Anyhoo, bombs need some kind of reaction to take place, what we know is Deidara's is just clay infused with his chakra, which then moves from matter to energy (chakra-induced explosion), thus fair game for Samehada.
As for your comparison; do you remember the Sanbi filler with Guren? She could turn almost any jutsu to crystal, ie Suiton and Doton, but has no power over Katon, Raiton and Fuuton. Why is this? Because these are jutsus formed from energy, while Doton and Suiton are simply elements being manipulated. So while Kisame cant absorb a boulder thrown at him, he can absorb Kirin if Sasuke threw that at him.
kisuzachi said this on July 27, 2010 at 1:49 am
Goddammit I'm sleepy as hell but I cant leave Tv Tropes until I finish reading all the articles I clicked T^T Those cunning bastards
kisuzachi said this on July 27, 2010 at 1:51 am
You still seem to miss my point that Deidara can just detonate the bombs before Kisame comes close to them. And you still forget that even if by some chance you are correct and Deidara's explosions are a force of chakra, that still doesn't mean Kisame can absorb the physical shock wave generated by that force.
When an explosive goes off, different forms of energy are released, in the form of heat and kinetic energy. But it is the physical shock wave, caused by the collision of molecules, that causes the most damage. So unless Kisame can take matter out of the equation, he cannot absorb a shock wave.
As for your counter about elements like water and earth, just remember, Kisame could create water out of pure chakra. It isn't just limited to manipulating an element, in some cases it is creating an element as well straight out of pure chakra. However, once the chakra's property is change into water, then it is water and no longer just chakra. If it was the case that Kisame could just absorb any element, then he wouldn't need to steal his enemy's chakra and he would literally be an overpowered immortal who can simply regain his stamina from the very ground he walks on.
Even still, you are only giving me reasons as to how Kisame would survive, even if only barely, a battle with Deidara. You haven't given me any real solid way he would actually defeat Deidara.
(P.S. I still think Kisame is stronger than Deidara overall, I just don't think he is suited for this particular match-up. And I am not debating for the sake of just supporting Deidara so much as just for the fun of it, seeing as how you are the only one coming up with a consistent retort. If you can come up with a great argument as to how Kisame could win, I may just join his side of the fence, but it seems we are the only two battling, so that would mean the end of the debate. O_o)
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 2:22 am
Ok lets step away from physics for a bit and stick to what can be proved. Technically speaking, it is impossible to mold and form chakra such as shown in the manga, and applying real world physics to fictional abilities doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
Before launching into a full blown BEATDOWN ON DEIDAR- I mean, logical argument, a few questions I'd like to pose.
1) Clay + Water = Formless slurry. How would Deidara be able to maintain the form and structure of a clay explosive underwater?
2) Gaara's sand was indeed chakra infused, which shielded the village below from the blast. But isn't Kisame's water also chakra infused? If so, would explosives have the same effect inside a chakra water bubble as they would in say a lake?
3) In a game of paper-scissors-rock, what is a sharkbite worth?
and lastly:
4) Does it really matter who would win, when Minato would pwn them both anyway? XD
– Darks
DarkAvatar said this on July 27, 2010 at 2:22 am
Lol! For some reason, I just can't stop laughing at that bubble.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 2:24 am
1: Deidara's clay does work in water. We saw this with his battle with the Sanbi.
2: Yes, Kisame's water can be infused with chakra, but water is pwned by earth, which is the element Deidara uses, so in that case, Kisame would have the elemental disadvantage.
3: Bombs pwn shark bites.
4: Yes, Minato is still the coolest, we will agree there.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 2:28 am
1: And pseudo-jinchuuriki's were a great idea. O_O come on man! no filler pleases ^_^
2: true, the elemental disadvantage exists. But unless the earth jutsu is as strong or stronger than the water jutsu, there is no advantage at all. please don't ask for references, i'm at work lol.
3: Unless that sharkbite came from Taylor Lautner, in which case his fangirl would bludgeon the bomb wielder into oblivion.
4: Flawless victory. Your soul is mine. XD
DarkAvatar said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:01 am
DarkAvatar said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:01 am
1: Who said anything about filler? This was in the manga.
2: I have already explained how explosive forces can cause more damage under water. That coupled with an elemental disadvantage = pwnage.
3: Kisame is, thankfully, not Tayler Lautner.
4: The victory is only Minato's. 😛
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:09 am
There is the link in the manga where Deidara uses an aquatic bomb. Notice the size of the blast relative to the size of the bomb. <_<
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:14 am
But that is NORMAL water, not water infused by the chakra of a ninja monster with a chakra level comparable to a bijuu. Somehow I dont think it would be as effective…
DarkAvatar said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:50 am
@kantonkage – Sorry I sometimes don't read all the comments :O
@ debate – I fail to see how Deidara can loose, if put in a corner and knows he is gonna die he will just kill himself by massive explosion and Kisame doesn't have plot no jutsu and time space no jutsu like Sasuke 😛 So in the end if Deidara see's he is loosing he will make it a draw.
Deidara can create multiple bombs at multiple speeds and size and also I think Salamanda has a certain speed it can absorb at if the object has enough chakra and fast enough it may be able to detonate and create a reasonably sized explosion, plus it will be close enough to Kisame to hit him.
pein0avenue said this on July 27, 2010 at 4:00 am
Ah, but that wasn't the point we were arguing. We were arguing about whether Deidara could make bombs that could work in water when we were refering to that particular point.
What you have explained is a separate point altogether and it is also a point based purely on speculation that Kisame infuses all the water around him with enough chakra to form a suitable defense. As far as I could tell, Gai was able to move through Kisame's water pretty fine just buy swimming and the human body isn't really made for swimming like a marine animal such as a fish is, and from what we have seen already, even Bijuu have their limits with regards to chakra, so Kisame infusing a massive body of water consistently for the duration of a battle would only drain his chakra that much faster.
In any case, a good defense is all good and fine, but the longer you play defense, the more time you give to your enemy to figure out your weaknesses. Deidara is very smart and cunning. He was able to find a way around Gaara's defense given the time and he could do the same with Kisame, if all the guy is going to do is swim around in a big bubble of water and simply defend himself as best as he can.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 4:19 am
Hang on hang on.
Notice the top 2 frames? Unless you're telling me that is the normal behaviour of water when subjected to Earth's gravity, I fail to see how you can dismiss my claim that the water is chakra infused as just speculation. It is clearly being suspended by another force and we have yet to really see how a bomb would react in chakra infused water. My point still stands. And he seems to be able to hold that form of water for a long while, so your claim that it would drain him of chakra faster than normal is itself dismissable.
It has been shown that Kisame is able to manipulate the water he creates – even turn them into various shapes and propel them towards opponents – I don't see him having any trouble firing jets of water at incoming bombs and propel them back at his opponent. And if Kisame manages to trap Deidara in his water, he will have about 2 minutes before it is game over in Kisame's favour.
Gai was moving through a water pool made by a Kisame clone at 30%, not a full blown water bijuu. Bit of a difference there buddy.
DarkAvatar said this on July 27, 2010 at 4:50 am
As for the human body not being designed for swimming, tell that to Michael Phelps.
DarkAvatar said this on July 27, 2010 at 4:57 am
I said that him infusing the water, and I quote, "with enough chakra to form a suitable defense" was speculation, not just him infusing the water with chakra overall. In other words, we don't know if he can use water as an effective barrier against attacks that are not strictly fire based. Against an element that it is weak against, that is even worse…
As for my point about him running out of chakra faster, it is a completely valid argument and I will explain why. In the battle with Bee, Kisame was able to constantly drain his opponent's chakra, thus keeping his own reserves constantly topped up, regardless of any drain, throughout the battle, which explains why he wouldn't have had trouble with it running out. Against Deidara, that wouldn't be the case, especially if his opponent is flying outside of his range.
We have not seen Kisame use any long range jutsu that appear suitable for anti-air purposes, so we don't know if he actually has any that would be suitable. Until we do know of such jutsu, I will simply refer to what Kisame does have in his arsenal, and from what I can tell, he has nothing suitable for long range combat against an air-born target.
Deidara, however, does have suitable techniques to defeat water-based targets. He also has more mobility, an elemental advantage and a range advantage. He has bombs powerful enough to level an entire village and he has a trump card in being able to self destruct if things do happen to go south. As far as I can tell, judging by all of that, he has the upper hand in just about every way.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 5:49 am
@ Darks – I think though Kisame can move the body of water with his chakra, but that is only general movement if you see in the manga Bee can still move around in the dome freely, that means water displacement within the water and around it can occur, i.e when bee throws out his buddies… this suggests though the water is controllable it may not be as controlable just because of its sheer size, look at Gaara he has so much sand infused with Chakra that is super hard and then he has a lot of sand he controls but with far less control and strength… If Kisame could just control all movement within his little bubble why allow Bee to move around, if it was like Zabuza's water Prison he would just need a ball the size of bee and then move on…
to create a water bubble higher then highest cloud Deidara can reach would take a lot more chakra…
pein0avenue said this on July 27, 2010 at 6:35 am
@ Darks – Also Kisame can only breath underwater when he is fused with Salamanda, when fused with it he can only absorb chakra by touching the opponent, this would mean if he creates the Dome he will have to literally touch the bomb to take chakra fast enough and the amount absorbed by the water wouldn't be enough to stop Deidara's size explosions. So his whole jutsu will be wasted if Deidara can stay outside the bubble or using displacement blow up a portion of the bubble to escape and get out before Kisame can reform it around them…
pein0avenue said this on July 27, 2010 at 6:50 am
The main problem for Kisame is getting Deidara in the water prison and getting close to his opponent. This opponent being Deidara who almost immediately takes to the air in all his battles. Kisame won't have the bottomless chakra and absorption then. I'm sure he can shoot shark bombs out of his mouth and other water jutsu but there's maybe a 5% chance that'd hit Deidara who had the maneuverability and speed to dodge Gaara's most elaborate sand tricks.
In other words Kisame still has no means of defeating his opponent. Whereas Deidara still has village size explosions, air, water, and ground bombs.
supertrek89 said this on July 27, 2010 at 8:09 am
*Forms the Super/Pein/Tenrai alliance* ^ ^
Sorry Pein, we South Africans have to team up with the American for now, but don't worry, our secret plot to take over the blog is still in the works. No-one will ever know about it. @__@
Just remember, you know nothing!!! @__@
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 27, 2010 at 8:14 am
@Tenrai, I cant come up with a convincing argument for Kisame to win so I've been aiming for a stalemate this whole time lol. Well ciao for now
kisuzachi said this on July 27, 2010 at 9:12 am
@ Tenrai – lol its a genius plan, it has the intelligence of Lee, the motivation of Shikamaru, the self control of Chouji, its as useful as Sakura, its as well organized and forward thinking like the Bleach plot, the only obstical would be Sasuke @_@ and plot no jutsu 😛
pein0avenue said this on July 27, 2010 at 9:39 am
dont really know much about the debate but ten said
"This means that the height Kisame can achieve is limited by how much water he can produce, which will also be hindered by this wonderful force called gravity."
kisame has chakra almost equal to that of a tailed beast meh for all he cares he could make the whole world a sea and as far as gravity is concerned lol in this manga people stand on water , people fly (pein 😉 ) people walk on trees ….. who cares about stupid laws of physics 😉
lol anyway i lovved the video you posted kisu , even though i saw it before you 😛 and was thinkingn the exact same thing can the naruto animators even not make stuff that fans can make eff that
Ahsan 阿赫桑 said this on July 27, 2010 at 1:56 pm
About a week ago we were talking about Sasuke and Naruto again, on the 'who is a harder worker/who is more spoiled' topic. And it brought up thoughts about Sasuke's alignment again.
I think it's still possible that Sasuke is not totally evil. He did put on a big show for us that is totally uncharacteristic of his character the last few times we've seen him in action. He's killed some people I think. They even said his chakra was different – that this wasn't the same Sasuke.
But, just like we are observing him – so is Madara. What are Sasuke's intentions?
I believe, everything considered, that Sasuke is trying to follow in his brother's footsteps. The closest ties to family are with Itachi and Naruto. He sides with both people. So Sasuke is most likely trying to convince the audience (or Madara, rather) that he has lost his cool. He has lost his old self, is driven by revenge, and dead set on destroying Konoha (and perhaps killing everyone there).
This elaborate ruse is a front to trick Madara into thinking that Sasuke is on his side. Sasuke might want to kill the elders. He might kill people that are in the way. He might have to murder people to get in close with Madara, to prove his loyalty. But so did Itachi. Sasuke is following in his brother's footsteps and is finishing what Itachi started. He is working towards the greater good by working against Madara. Therefore, even though he is not beyond reproach, he is not completely evil.
Gavin said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:13 pm
*poofs into blog*
*sees incoming flaming boulders*
*summons Aizen* Stop those boulders!
*Aizen's precense erases existence blog* X__X
@Baron: Ha! Everbody loves me! Don't you, guys? *silence*
Captain Pickles said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Is it Susan Boyle?! Is it Susan Boyle?!!!
1redbaron1 said this on July 27, 2010 at 4:02 pm
So, can this chapter finally put to resist the theory about Obito being Madara?
You see how young Kakashi was in this chapter. Obito would have been the same age and average height.
thelaughingwiseman said this on July 27, 2010 at 4:38 pm
I really need to find a new ammo.
kantonkage said this on July 27, 2010 at 6:00 pm
ammo dealer
kantonkage said this on July 27, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Ammo supplier.
kantonkage said this on July 27, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Alright guys! It's morphin' time! Wait, wrong show…
Caption: Because this is the closest thing we'll ever get to see Naruto themed power ranger.
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 27, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Bubble: Pickles… You. are. the greatest breakdown writer EVER!!!!?
Caption: ass kissing… the easiest way to win a bubble contest 😉
kingtuckerviii said this on July 28, 2010 at 12:52 am
Nice try, but in debates, you still have to try and be realistic, or at least, realistic as far as the laws of that world are concerned. However, for interest's sake, let's just pretend you are right and Kisame could just create enough water to reach the upper atmosphere while still having enough chakra to retain a relatively reasonable degree of controll.
Just remember, the higher Kisame is, the more vulnurable he is, especially if he is further from any form of cover. As Pein pointed out already, if he was able to stop things from moving within his sphere of water, he would have shown that ability in the battle with Bee and yet Bee, who was already becoming chakra exhausted, was still able to swim around freely in his water dome.
So I don't see how Deidara's bombs would have any difficulty getting close to their target, even through water. In addition to that, Kisame still has no way to attack Deidara effectively.
In any case, I think that is taking things too far. Even Kisame has his limits, so no, he can't flood the world with water.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 28, 2010 at 12:54 am
@Tenrai Senshi
I guess, i've confirmed it. The Xerox guy is Homura Mitokado..
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 28, 2010 at 1:12 am
@Chairman Kaga
Yeah, but I wonder what the scrolls are used for. We know scrolls can have a lot of uses, like containing weapons (Tenten) or even being used to seal.
They could even contain jutsu, or maybe they are just giant explosive scrolls. Rofl!!! @__@
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 28, 2010 at 2:21 am
@ Gavin – I used to think the same thing, hey its the ninja world every shinobi except for Naruto have killed people that stand in the way of their objectives, I mean even Ahsan's precious Kakashi has killed people, its just not shown to be a cold an ruthless act but for the greater good… but after the last while I doubt he is still good, Itachi always showed a soft spoken side where he would try to avoid conflict and use genjutsu instead of physical ninjutsu, I think Kishi wants to use Sasuke more like a Vegeta villain either he is gonna repent in the end or he is like Vegeta backwards, instead of slowly becoming good, he starts good and slowly becomes more and more evil and the rivalry at first being friendly becomes more and more death match
pein0avenue said this on July 28, 2010 at 3:52 am
Great analysis @ http://naruto-spoilers.blogspot.com/2010/05/naruto-504-raw-spoilers-and-predictions.html
holydemonandy said this on July 28, 2010 at 7:00 am
Sorry for the double comment, but as for this debate, please remember that first Kisame had to drain some of the chakra tails from Killer Bee before he was able to create that much water? Maybe I'm just imagining things.
holydemonandy said this on July 28, 2010 at 7:03 am
It may be better to ask the permission of the author of this breakdown (I.E. Captain pickles) before posting an analysis, discussion or even a breakdown from another site. Some authors might be alright with it, but others may see it as disrespectful to their own hard work.
It is another story if you take some of those ideas and discuss them here, but posting links to other similar kinds of work may not be the best idea.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 28, 2010 at 7:09 am
Sorry for triple comment, but @Kisuzachi. Sasuke had elemental affinity against earth, which caused Deidara's landmines (which could end up being used as underwater mines, which, if put in oil similar to Bee's could render him just about sightless unless you use sense of smell, but even then that would be neigh useless), which caused Deidara's landmines to be stripped of their power. Not to mention Deidara's bomb that created flakes of earth chakra or whatever to detonate inside the bloodstream – if that got inside the water, it would probably likely still explode even when it got wet. Kisame has no chance so long as Deidara can keep all of his chakra.
Sasuke also had genjutsu, and it doesn't appear that Kisame has much genjutsu, so it would be difficult to trick his opponent.
holydemonandy said this on July 28, 2010 at 7:09 am
Sorry about the fourth post, and also sorry about posting the analysis. If you could please, delete it. I just felt that there were some stuff there (and predictions, even if people have suggested them before) that were added there which weren't added here. Sorry about that, I wasn't thinking.
holydemonandy said this on July 28, 2010 at 7:22 am
S'all good, jo. A caution is fair enough. ^^
Captain Pickles said this on July 28, 2010 at 7:45 am
Bubble: ITS RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!
Caption: what don't believe me… don't come crying to us when you hear "SURPRISE"
pein0avenue said this on July 28, 2010 at 7:59 am
@pein0avenue: There was one time that I think is important to note, that Itachi went all crazy on Sasuke. During their final fight Itachi acted out his part by doing crazy about Sasuke's eyeballs. I'm sure you remember the scene. Very uncharacteristic of Itachi. To me this is a good example of how Sasuke is following in his brother's footsteps – Sasuke is also playing a part. What do you think?
Gavin said this on July 28, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Haha, it does look like they're pointing at me…
Oh shit, they're on to me. Time to run…
1redbaron1 said this on July 28, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Or maybe they are just used for taking notes on whats going on..hahaha.. thats what a true copy ninja would do..',…,'
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 28, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Everyone (including myself) was raving about how badass Minato is but I kinda feel let down by his character development in a few areas.
For one, we never got to see his sage mode skills. It woulda been cool to see him land a "frog kata" hit on an unsuspecting Madara this way. Maybe before landing his rasengan using FTG. Or some other cool adaptation of sage techs
Also, no display of any badass elemental jutsu use. Hiraishin is pretty awesome in itself but as a Kage I guess I thought they'd give him more of an arsenal than just physical based weapons (sage mode, hiraishin, sealing jutsus, etc.). Makes me think Naruto might REALLY be limited to only wind element, but I know we're all hoping for water too
kahmix said this on July 28, 2010 at 5:56 pm
@ Kahmix,
Minato hasn't been trained in senjutsu. Besides Minato is the first and only Naruto character that made Tobi run for the hills. If that isn't badass I don't know what is.
With the Hiraishin and his vast knowledge of sealing jutsu he is without a doubt the most dangerous Kage a ninja could face.
1redbaron1 said this on July 28, 2010 at 6:01 pm
To kill all of your theories on "Deidara's bombs cannot deetonate underwater"… he used fish clay bombs when fighting te 3 tailed beast… and idc if it was a filler he still used fish bombs so yah his fish bombs won't go slower, psh they might keep up with Kisame and also he can make small critters and he controls the skies so he won't be sucked into the water ball like Killerbee did… he can send in a huge clay monster to disrupt the aqua bubble. I say Deidara would win, afterall they did say he was one of the strongest in Akatsuki…
greyfox2012 said this on July 28, 2010 at 6:44 pm
@baron: You're stating your assumption about Minato, but not quite a fact. The fact is, we don't know for sure. But the evidence shows, that he most likely was.
And instead of reconstructing what's already been done, I'll borrow from an old IRA post and present my exhibit A : http://iareawesomeness.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/minato-sage-or-surreal/
Check the poll results, most people at the time (and probably tons of people who're now active on WRA) thought he was definitely a sage. I think the cape shown to be worn by all three as detailed in the above post makes the strongest case
kahmix said this on July 28, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Firstly, it has never been mentioned or even suggested that Minato learned sage mode, and I really doubt he did because the frogs are very picky about who they choose for that training. It takes certain base requirements and Minato may not have been suitable.
Secondly, I always thought the cool part about Minato was the fact that they focussed on his space-time jutsu and how strong it was. Yes, they could have shown other elements, or techs, etc, but that wasn't what Minato was renowned for and those are also things we have seen in action a hundred times before. It would have been a waste if they focussed on that rather than focussing on something we have only rarely seen a hint of the power from, and that is the Hiraishin. At least now we have an idea of how advanced it actually is. It even allowed Minato to defeat Tobi and force him to retreat. That says a lot.
In the end, Minato is still gone, so we can't expect too much development from him. This was more a glimpse of his power than anything else, but the real development of this arc is all focussed in Naruto's character.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 12:58 am
Actually, that isn't a bad theory and considering the twists we have already had in this story, especially with Itachi, it is perfectly plausible.
The only reason I would refrain from believing that it might be true, though, is because I believe Kishi is trying to create a stark contrast between Naruto and Sasuke. He is showing how two different people who have both experienced a tragedy in their lives react differently to it. It's a similar contrast that was shown between Naruto and Pein.
The one is trying to find peace and overcome the hatred in the world, while the other is embracing that hatred and using it for power.
This impact and contrast would be lost if Sasuke was just acting and I don't believe he is. That doesn't mean he is not redeemable though and I believe this is a story about redemption at the end of the day.
We have seen this contrast throughout the story, with many characters, starting with the Sage's two sons, going all the way down to Madara and Hashirama and now Naruto and Sasuke.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 1:33 am
Sorry about all the posts, I just need to make one more point quickly.
Anyway, you posted a link to a poll to support your idea that Minato may have been a sage, but the truth is, until we have actual evidence, it is still just an assumption at the end of the day. Also, just because a majority believe that he may have been a sage, that doesn't suddenly make it true.
Think about it, hundreds of years ago everyone believed the world was flat. But, just because the majority thought that was the case, did that in fact make it true?
No, it didn't, because we now have evidence that the world is in fact round, despite past beliefs.
In the same vein, just because a lot of people think Minato might have been a sage, that doesn't make it true. It's the same as all who believe that Tobi is Obito. It is just a theory at the end of the day until it is proven to be a fact. I think that if Minato was a Sage, Kishi would have shown it by now, because I don't see why Minato would battle something as powerful as the Kyuubi without utilizing the sage mode if he had it, especially considering how much stronger it could make him. This is the last time we will likely see Minato in action, so if it hasn't been shown now, in this battle, then we can't assume that he ever learned Sage mode at all.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 2:24 am
is naruto not out this week?
dricedt said this on July 29, 2010 at 2:53 am
@Tenrai Senshi: Wow, that was quite a well thought out response. In fact, I'm inclined to believe what you're saying is true. I'm still on the fence about it.
I think when Sasuke thought about his path after Itachi died and Madara spoke to him, he decided his ultimate path. I really think that what happened since then 'could be' the act of trying to be an inside man and gain intelligence on an enemy.
I think the contrast you are talking about existed between Itachi and Sasuke right up until the twist ending where Itachi ended up being the guy looking out for Sasuke's interests. You are right that the contrast between Naruto and Sasuke display a theme, but I'm also trying to figure out if Kishi is trying to surprise us with something else in the end.
That said, I wouldn't mind the impact of that contrast being lost if the alternative twist had just as much, if not more, impact. Because, for sure, if Sasuke is not evil – it would be a twist considering what has happened. It would be cool if Sasuke could pull it off, and it would be even cooler if he accepted Naruto as his friend finally.
As much as we've seen history repeating itself in this story, I think the end must be about history not repeating itself in light of having a new world of peace. I think considering the relationship between Sasuke and Naruto. they will eventually have to work together, and not have to fight to the death. I hope this also means that once Sasuke and Naruto have a chance to exhange stories away from Madara, that we can hear that his behavior was all an attempt to fool Madara and mess his plans up.
That's not all my thoughts on the subject. But I'm freaking really tired. More later….
Gavin said this on July 29, 2010 at 6:16 am
@ Gavin – hmmm, I remember that Sasuke himself tried to kill/attack tobi before going to the Kage summit, remember he had still told Jugo that they (he) was using Akatsuki and not the other way around… This could also be the reason he has been pushing Taka away from him and instead relying only on his own strength, he didn't want to keep the bond with them cause it would become a distraction, almost the same as Itachi wanted Sasuke to hate him. That way he would not be involved in the greater scheme, same with his attempted killing of Sakura and Karin, he may of sensed Kakashi coming and knew he would save her, also when it happened he seemed to delay attacking her to the last second…
I think what will happen Sasuke may kill all the elders of the Village and gain his revenge, and what may happen is he would want to prove his Uchiha pride and kill Tobi himself without Naruto's help (Vegeta O_O ) but just fail (this theme is seen through most of the movies/fillers etc, Sasuke fails but weakens the armor/sword etc and Naruto comes in for the final kill shot) So I see that happening, Sasuke won't exactly be good but in the end he will want to destroy Tobi in so being the enemy of Naruto's enemy… Like killing Deidara/Oro/Itachi, Sasuke was actually doing good in the eyes of the villages even as a missing nin
pein0avenue said this on July 29, 2010 at 6:57 am
Also killing Madara may be part of his plan for revenge remember he knows Tobi played part in the murders of his family
pein0avenue said this on July 29, 2010 at 7:04 am
Ok, it seems we'll have the new chapter in few short hours 😀
to63to said this on July 29, 2010 at 9:04 am
But I want it now! 😦
cumulusbg said this on July 29, 2010 at 10:23 am
Well, I wanted it yesterday but alas… As far as I know shonen jump( or whatever) has been late this week so they couldn't find raws. They probably have them by now but the translation isn't done yet.
to63to said this on July 29, 2010 at 10:30 am
I know. 😦
I'm an Naruto addict. I need new dose. 😀
cumulusbg said this on July 29, 2010 at 10:37 am
Wow, I'm impressed that you went all "everyone thought the world was flat" on me. If you read the second sentence in my post I said the same thing we're all saying: "we don't know for sure". But the EVIDENCE (not the poll) makes a CASE for Minato being a sage. If you take some time to visit the link I posted, it uses pictures from the manga itself to make an argument that it's true. I'm not saying it is, I'm saying I THINK it's true. Just my (and lots of other's) opinion, even our own Supertrek at the time thought so (read his comments on that thread). Although he can obviously speak for himself on his current belief.
As for your argument that he wouldn't have battled the kyubi or madara without using sage mode, I'm sorry but that doesn't make a very strong case in my opinion. Why? Because madara came out of absolutely nowhere during Kushina's birth and started going off like crazy without wasting any time whatsoever. Everything was so immediate and constantly happening that the only way Minato could keep up with the action and distance it covered was by using Hiraishin (and thank God he had it).
So with the above in mind, you can see by following the battle that Minato would have had no time or chance to sit still and collect natural energy for sage mode. Even Pa frog commented that Naruto's ability to create bunshins to collect the chakra during battle was unique to him, that's why he kicks ass at being a sage. Anyway, my point on this one is that this battle without Minato being in sage mode doesn't prove he wasn't a sage and all the evidence already gathered in the link I posted above makes a stronger case for it, rather than against it.
kahmix said this on July 29, 2010 at 10:56 am
I was actually specifically referring to this line in my response:
"Check the poll results, most people at the time (and probably tons of people who're now active on WRA) thought he was definitely a sage."
I just thought that a poll result is not the most definitive asset to base the value of a theory on, or to try and convince someone else that it is true, that's all. After all, the majority isn't always right.
As for my point about Minato not using Sage Mode in the battle against the Kyuubi, when you think about it, after he defeated Madara and forced him to retreat, he would have had time to gather more Sage chakra before he went to battle the Kyuubi. It doesn't take THAT long to gather sage chakra, maybe a minute at the most.
In any case, the real focus of my point is that if we didn't see it in this battle or any other battle Minato was in, including those from the third shinobi war (Although we only got brief glimpses there) and neither Jiraiya or Fukusaku mentioned it, then it is unlikely that he could use Sage Mode.
You gave your reasons why you belied he had it, I gave my reasons why I think he doesn't. Nothing personal.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 11:10 am
As for the part about "the frogs are very picky about who they choose for that training", that doesn't really correlate with what we've seen so far either.
Minato had both pre-requisites that Pa frog mentioned for senjutsu: large amount of chakra, and the guts to never give up.
Also, when minato summoned Bunta it's not like the frog was like "who the heck are you?". Which suggests he had at least used him in battle before and earned bunta's respect (remember the hell bunta gave naruto in order for him to earn the right to fight w/ him?)
As Jiraiya's student I can't see minato not being trained w/ the frogs, especially since jiraiya initially thought that minato was the destined child.
kahmix said this on July 29, 2010 at 11:13 am
None taken personal at all. Good points of view IMO
kahmix said this on July 29, 2010 at 11:33 am
Also remember that Jiraiya was trained by the toads because he stumbled on their mountain and met with the elder toads. From what we can tell, Naruto only got chosen for training after he met with Fukusaku. And even then, that might not have happened if Jirtaiya didn't battle Pein.
I am basing my points on what we have seen, while you are basing your points on what we haven't seen or even been hinted at. Maybe Minato did get trained by the frogs, but maybe he didn't succeed at it. Or maybe he was never trained at all. It's just in your first comment that I had read. You said you were disappointed that Minato didn't use sage mode, as if to suggest that it was certain that he had learned it. In my response, I said that he may not have and gave my reason's why.
If you don't have definitive evidence that proves that Minato had learned sage mode, then it will always remain open to question.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 11:43 am
I seem to be getting into a lot of debates this week. O___O
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 11:46 am
Oh boy, talk about the past coming back to haunt you. !_! Well, I believed it back then might as well stick to it. 😉
About your point of Minato gathering Natural energy after making Tobi retreat Tenrai. You just have to take into account the Kyubi's attack was still ongoing and every second lives were being lost by the ninja who were fighting it. Minato couldn't delay even for a minute or he'd have the loss of lives on his consciousness for his decision to sit still.
Though for the record of not being stubborn I'm much less sure of Minato being a Sage now than I was back then. So unsure that I could climb the fence anytime…>_>
supertrek89 said this on July 29, 2010 at 12:24 pm
I do think I'm basing my assumption on what I've seen, what else would give me reason to think he was a sage, or even at a lower level, trained at mt. myobokuzan. The "fiery cape" worn by the young jiraiya and naruto after achieving sage status, which happens to be minato's calling card is the biggest visual cue. I'm simply pulling out what the manga itself seems to be suggesting. It's not proof, but it's significant. And it's pretty well known that manga character's outfit "changes" or "enhancements" are serious implications to achievements or status. It's not like minato is wearing it as a "hokage cape", so a sage accessory seems to make sense.
Either way, it's not 100% proof. But my initial point, waaaay up there, was that minato's hiraishin is awesome and I was stoked to see it in action. I was just disappointed by not seeing a few other things in addition. More and more action is never a bad thing right? It's what we spend six days at a time hoping for. Stretch that since the beginning of naruto's training with Bee over how many weeks now and I think my feelings on this are justified.
They're taking 4 chapters to illustrate this flashback and I'm just bummed that as badass as hiraishin is, I wanted to see what awesome elemental jutsu they were gonna throw out with Minato since the battle b/w the resurrected 1st and 2nd against the 3rd had each of them come out with some serious techs.
Btw, if minato had taken 1 minute to charge up for sage mode after sending madara off, ALL of the shinobi including the 3rd who had the "oh sh*t" face staring at the kyubi's blast probably woulda been taken out. Maybe along with the whole village. The panels show minato got there and transported the kyubi out at the last second.
kahmix said this on July 29, 2010 at 12:33 pm
@Super: Sorry for draggin you into this but I needed some ammo. Cheap of me I know ^__^
kahmix said this on July 29, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Lol, it's cool. I'm up for a good debate anyway. 🙂
supertrek89 said this on July 29, 2010 at 12:56 pm
@debate: i'm on tenrai's side. i don't think that minato was a sage…and there's no proof that he is one.
truepain said this on July 29, 2010 at 1:01 pm
@Pein: Pffffffffffffffffffft, nani!? I suggest you go over the links and evidence Kahmix provided stating otherwise. >_>
supertrek89 said this on July 29, 2010 at 1:10 pm
So sad… T_T
Anyway, here it is.
Against Kushina's begging, Minato begins the Shikifuujin.
Kushina doesn't want Naruto burdened.
Only I have to die, Minato, you should be there to see Naturo grow up.
You shouldn't become the sacrifice for me
Minato, Casting aside your Village, Casting aside you country–That's the same as throwing away your child! (This Japanese needs better punctuation… I'm not sure if the names at the start of the sentences are part, or who's talking… )
The country will collapse, You should know. Besides, our family, We're Ninjas!
This isn't for you. I'm doing this for Naturo.
The Deathgod is already behind Minato
Minato: If it's for our son, dying is fine. That's my duty as a father.
3rd: Let's keep an eye on the 9b
The 3rds barrier stretches? so that the 9b can't get outside.
From Minato's stomach, the death god's hand extends
The 9b has a dangerous feeling.. (Pictures would be a help for this…)
Minato: The seal?
The 9b suffers/complains
Minato is on his last breaths as well.
3rd: The seal feels like it's not all sealed off (?)
Minato prepares the 8 trigram seal
9b: You're sealing me in that brat?~~~9b is unable to understand these circumstances.
Kushina's not breathing anymore
The 9b's power is being aimed at Naruto (Part of the sealing tech?)
The 9b's claws pierce Minato
Kushina dives out in order to get Naruto out of the 9b's reach…
Minato: This is what a father can do
Kushina: and all the more, If I'm the mother (not sure how to write it in English…)~~ This is the first time I've lost a marital fight, eh?
Thank you, Kushina
The tiger seal's necromancy? key, deliver it to Jiraiya to store.
3rd Finally understands the situation.
The key disappears
The Shinagami take's it's sword.
Minato: Do the 8Trigram seal. I want to put a little bit of my chikara in Naruto
as well, as we can't meet now. Now, The we want to say to to Naruto let's leave them behind. (Hard to say in English without sounding strange)
Soundly sleeping Naruto
Kushina: Don't be a picky eater, and bathe every day
Don't stay up too late,
Get plenty of sleep
Make some friends, even if not too many.
Steadily do your studies and ninjutsu study. Don't worry about your weak points.
Respect your academy professors, The three banned Ninja laws (??) Be careful borrowing and lending money,
No booze until you're 20. Girls and Mothers are women, so you don't understand them, but in this age, there's just men and women, so find a mother like figure. (I think she's saying because he won't have a mother, he won't understand women, thus he should find a mother like figure…)
And, be careful of Jiraiya Sensei ;P
Naruto, from here on out, there will be a lot of painful, heartbreak.
Always hold yourself high, and chase after your dreams with confidence.
I really wish I could teach you many other things as well.
I wish I could be with you longer, I love you
Minato, Please forgive me
Minato: It's alright. Naruto… Your fathers words… I wonder if they're the same as the mother with the annoying mouth
8 Trigram Seal!
Here's where the reminiscence ends.
From here on out is Naruto's soul/heart world.
Crying Kushina
Making Naruto into a container (Spoken with regret), Together we couldn't live together… Naruto wasn't given love [as a child]
Naruto: Don't appologize.. I don't feel bitter or anything towards Father, and Mother.
I didn't know the love from true parents, as both mine were gone… but now I understand.
I was given my own life, for my own sake (strange in English again…)
Naruto, with a AWESOME good happy face
I understand my container was filled with love. Thus, I'm happy as well.
Father, Mother, and Child are happy.
Kushina begins to fade away.
Minato are you listening, please pay attention to our feelings
Naruto, thank you for having me as your mother, When we gave birth to naruto,
we embraced Naruto.
Truly, Thank you
Kushina disappears
最强 Dragon said this on July 29, 2010 at 2:42 pm
The new chapter is finally out 😀
to63to said this on July 29, 2010 at 2:51 pm
sad ass chapter.
but a great one.
fearvano said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Great chapter, something kishi has been waiting to draw up for a long time… A little on the short side though and after a weeks wait (along with an atrocious anime filler) i'm not really satisfied… bleach better not let down…
Oh and put Kushina on team NaruXSaku!!!
adakias said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Tis' a sad chapter indeed. Reminds me of Harry Potter and how his parents love protected Harry from Voldemort and stuck with him as he grew older. o_o
So according to Kushina's questioning Minato could have possibly used another seal, and the reason why he used the Death Reaper was to put half the Kyubi in Naruto and to die with Kushina? That's what shinobi do… Maybe the Death Reaper seal was the only one that could split the Kyubi's chakra in two and make Naruto the Jinchuuriki. Anyway, Minato's and Kushina's last words to Naruto were heartbreaking. I didn't cry (even with your hug Pickles :P) but it was very well done. Can't say I didn't see this coming. >_>
So Naruto always had his parents love which made him grow healthy and happy. That's nice to know. *grins*
supertrek89 said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:21 pm
SO THE KUBI DID SHRINK!!!! the question now is, does that mean the nine tails isnt stronger then eaight-o because half his chakra is gone?
dricedt said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:21 pm
T.T so sad.
kantonkage said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:25 pm
@Super and Kahmix
You are both forgetting something very important. Fukusaku already said that a solution was created to counter the problem of having to keep perfectly still while going into Sage Mode.
And that was fusing with the toads so that they can gather natural energy while the user continues to battle. The only person who isn't able to use that strategy is Naruto, so the disadvantage of needing to sit still to gather the energy or to use clones, is only one Naruto suffers.
So, if Minato did learn how to use sage mode, he could have used it in this battle quite easily. And yet he didn't.
As for visual clues, with the cape, I believe that is more symbolic of the will of fire being passed on from master to student, rather than being symbolic of being a sage. In either case, we don't know when Jiraiya became a sage regardless, it may have happened when he was young or many years later. You can't go by something like that as proof of a sage any more than Tobi's right eye proves that he is Obito. It is just speculation until you have some real solid evidence to support it.
As I said, there is the slight chance he could have been a sage, but I highly doubt it, so it isn't something we should have expected.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:27 pm
the other thing is, how can the jubi be brought back with part of it's chakra gone forever?
dricedt said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:30 pm
I had tears flowing that was F-ing Sad cause it Happened.
I hope that was Water element flowing into Naruto at the End there.
Also If Minato sealed his soul into reaper death seal then HTF was Orochimaru going to Rez him in the battle agaisnt the 3rd.
BlackBurstBoom said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:54 pm
i dont think why every one's saying its a sad chapter . the thing is this chapter sucked . im not generally this cold hearted but kishi seriously failed to create even a drop of concern or sadness about minato's and kushina's death i dont know if its the story telling the art or what but something just wasnt right .
ill take your guys [due to come] suggestion of my mind not working though 😉
Ahsan 阿赫桑 said this on July 29, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Maybe you are just turning emo. You need more hugs during the day.
*Invites everyone to hug Ahsan and runs away.*
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 29, 2010 at 4:12 pm
@Tenrai: You got a good point there.
*sits on fence and teeters*
@Ahsan: I can see where you're coming from regarding the emotion in this chapter. I wasn't feeling any tears for this chapter but to say the chapter "sucked"!? Which part, Kushina and Minato sacrificing themselves for their son or Naruto saying goodbye to his mom? Was it because Kishi couldn't bring any emotions out of you? But even if that, there were still other things the chapter offered like the reasoning behind Naruto's happiness (partly the reason) and the conclusion to the flashbacks…
Your mind is working perfectly though and there's nothing I can say to change your opinion. I love differentiating opinions. 😉 But I will say this. YOU'RE A COLD HEARTED BASTARD!!! Lol, jkjk. ^_^
supertrek89 said this on July 29, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Ahaha! I was just going to suggest the same thing!
This is for you, Ahsany-pooo!!!
Captain Pickles said this on July 29, 2010 at 4:28 pm
@blackburst you only ever see orochimaru trying to use edo tensei for minato was in the anime, therefore it wasn't canon and didn't technically count.
minatotheyellowflash said this on July 29, 2010 at 4:28 pm
lol yeh super maybe it was too wrong to say the chapter downright sucked but i was really surprized to see the lack of emotion kishi was able to bring out of me .
*uses lightning blade to cut the bears and pickles head off *
Ahsan 阿赫桑 said this on July 29, 2010 at 4:38 pm
since we are having so much fun here is one of my favourite videos 😀
here's another
Ahsan 阿赫桑 said this on July 29, 2010 at 4:48 pm
@ Kahmix,
You're allowed to think it's true but you're still wrong
And all that "evidence" isn't evidence at all. Where does it state that to have a cape (Danzou had a cape…), use toad summons (Naruto could summon toads before) or have flames on your jacket you must be a Sage?!? Give me that "evidence" and I'll support your theory.
This is just as good a theory as Obito being Tobi
Fail argument number one on that theory;
"The name Tobi can be taken out of Obito, so it MUST be true." >__>
Fail argument on this theory;
"Minato looks like Naruto so it MUST be true"
It's just wishfull thinking, nothing more nothing less.
1redbaron1 said this on July 29, 2010 at 5:14 pm
@minatotheyellowflash: Here you can see orochimaru trying to summon the 4th
supafreak17 said this on July 29, 2010 at 6:11 pm
New chapter is so sad. 😦
Last picture when Kushina is leaving and Naruto is crying was so emotional. They sead "Thank you" to each other, and I say Thank you Kishimoto. One day when it gets to anime it's gonna be hell of a episode.
cumulusbg said this on July 29, 2010 at 6:16 pm
@ dricedt…the kyubi shrank. I'm glad someone popped that balloon. Does this mean that it is less powerful? No! I don't think having more or less chakra means being more or less powerful although it probably helps endurance one way or another. Having more chakra is definitely useful when carrying out chakra intensive activities e.g. playing catch or just cooking.
darkgeenie said this on July 29, 2010 at 6:45 pm
what up everybody, this is my fisrt post on WRA, i used to follow IRA but i was mostly on ome manga. one day i impulsively decided to check this out again and found that OM was shutting down,weird that i didnt see that info on One manga…anyway i decided to actually use this account that i set up like a year ago and pretty much forgot about…"creepy stalker who never comment"
haha, man that breakdown felt so personal.lol
@kisame vs deidera
In the beginning, i was thinking kisame all the way but after comparing how they fight, kisame cant effectively get within range without getting blown up. and deidera is creative, and in some scenarios desperate. only way kisame could do it is if kisame rushed him from the get go and starts eating chakra immediately.actually, skip the horseplay, he'd have to murder without a second thought…
but im not saying kisame isnt a beast or that deidera is the illest, but they have different strenths, for example, if they wanted to atkatsuki could've just had kisame colloect EVERY single bijuu on his own cause his strenths are absorbing chakra and brute strenth. of course that would take longer than just dividing up the work, but he could do it. now deidera is a long range fighter, which theres not that many of. like kakashi said, if you have no talent for long range,you'd either need a companion who CAN fight long range. since this is a one on one fight that wont happen.another possibility is genjutsu which we've never him do soo… deidera almost wins by default if you ask me….
Damn!! this is long post.. sorry….
westerndjango said this on July 29, 2010 at 7:47 pm
dammit! this chapter made me so sad that i laughed so hard…and cried behind the laughter…
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 29, 2010 at 9:44 pm
504 is really sad it made me cry… Especially during the last speech of Kushina to Naruto.. Huhuhu at least one thing is sure…
SASUKE has no BIJUU inside him!! I find it mysterious though that both of Sasuke's parents is not home when the masked man attacked. Hmmmm…. But very awesome chapter nonetheless… Cant wait to see the anime of this one. (prepares a tons of tissues… huhuhu)
gudoruto said this on July 29, 2010 at 10:45 pm
there were rumors of sasuke having kyuubi chakra?
we saw when sarutobi said minato used the dead demon tech to do the seal…
as much as i like sasuke he cant get away with that…not yet.. jk
westerndjango said this on July 29, 2010 at 11:09 pm
@pein0avenue: Speaking of references from other shows…
I think Kishi has shown that he's kind of into Star Wars. There might be a scene in the future that has Naruto defeating Sasuke. After that Madara starts killing Naruto, but Sasuke has a change of heart and kills Madara.
Gavin said this on July 29, 2010 at 11:54 pm
Welcome to WRA Westerndanjo (A.K.A. one of the many creepy stalkers who never comment) and enjoy your stay. 🙂
supertrek89 said this on July 30, 2010 at 1:05 am
Discussion: Kushina's comment about finding a girlfriend more like herself. To me it sounds like Sakura is the one since they both are pretty hot headed.
tigerpalm said this on July 30, 2010 at 1:13 am
oh yeah! Sakura is indeed the Mother's Choice for Naruto.. .BWahahaha Sorry Hinata… Hahaha I know those breast implants would still be useful someday.. hehehe
gudoruto said this on July 30, 2010 at 1:44 am
well some claimed that there is a bijuu-like something inside Sasuke as seen by Karin. and i also find it mysterious why there are flashbacks of baby Sasuke during baby Naruto's arc. Maybe its just to emphasize the absent of BOTH the parents of Sasuke. But personally what Sasuke has was just pure evilness and nothing more…
gudoruto said this on July 30, 2010 at 1:52 am
@ Gavin – lol, like Minato's I am your father, lol maybe it will be revealed that Naruto and Sakura are related @_@ but yeah I am expecting some sort of twist for Sasuke.
@ Kyuubi Chakra in Sasuke and why he was shown in the manga… well I have a feeling, that the crow that Kishi seems to be negelecting is in fact Itachi's memories of that night (naruto will have every Character's spirit in him eventually) so when Naruto has to use the ability Itachi has given him, it will be itachi retelling the story of that night from his perspective, maybe the Uchiha involvement, etc this will lead to Sasuke turning on Madara more.. well that is my theory
pein0avenue said this on July 30, 2010 at 3:38 am
i dont think there is a biju like chakra in sasuke, i think karin was refering to the hatred in sasuke. She was saying that the kubi's chakra is filled with hatred and it is just like whats inside sasuke. Remember the kubi even refers that the chakra in madara was more sinister then his own, because of madara's hatred. Sasuke might be like madara in the fact that his chakra is filled with hatred, and intern similar to the kubi's
dricedt said this on July 30, 2010 at 4:23 am
remember the context of karins thoughts as well, she was refering to the warmth of narutos chakra, not it's strenghth then she saw the darker chakra inside him, like sasukes chakra, which karin also says is very different and cold.
dricedt said this on July 30, 2010 at 4:24 am
@ supertrek
@ sasuke's chakra
i think its like what zazuba did, he isnt jinkuuriki but his chakras felt demonic.
i was reading the kage summit again last week and i was looking closely at what happened before karin sensed the change in his chakra.
first he was mad that madara was hindering his goal to attackthe leaf,then he found out it was too late for that plan and that danzo had been appointed hokage.that really pissed him off, and he decided to go, even tho in reality madara told him to.now we can tell he was suspicous cause he was ready to burn zetzu if he tried to pull a slick one, which he totally did. but at that moment, when sasuke realized that he'd been tricked into coming out right front of everybody hunting for him who then got in the way of his reason for going there at all…. so now i think he just got tired of the crap and let instinct take over..
westerndjango said this on July 30, 2010 at 5:17 am
It seems that Minato sealed half the Kyuubi's chakra into himself, while the physical body of the Kyuubi, along with the other half of his chakra, was sealed in Naruto…
Now, here is my take on things… When someone runs out of chakra, or even when they have it drained out of them (I.E. Kisame draining Bee's chakra), they normally recover it after some time. Does this mean that although Minato sealed half of the Kyuubi's chakra in himself, that the Kyuubi would still regather it over time?
Perhaps Minato needed to weaken the Kyuubi in order to seal it into Naruto, but maybe while Naruto was growing, his body would adapt to the Kyuubi's chakra and become more tolerant of it. So, even if the Kyuubi started to regain its former strength, Naruto's body would adapt to that slow change in time, allowing him to contain the full power of the Kyuubi where he wouldn't have otherwise been able to.
As for Karin sensing the same darkness in Naruto as Sasuke, I still believe that it has something to do with the Juubi and when the Sage passed on his power to his two sons. I believe that when the Sage became the host of the Juubi, his chakra may have been corrupted in some way. When he passed on his eye powers onto his oldest son, that corruption took root and eventually led to the creation of the Sharingan, which may just be a corrupt or mutated form of the Sage's original Rinnegan. I also believe that is why the Sharingan can control the Kyuubi (because the Sharingan and the Kyuubi are both born from the corrupt chakra of the Juubi) and also why Karin senses the same chakra in Sasuke as she sensed in Naruto, because they are both essentially carrying power from the same source, albeit in different forms.
It's ironic, because if that is truly the case, it would further emphasis the contrast between the two sons of the sage and Sasuke and Naruto. The youngest son became powerful in body (Naruto has a bodily form of the Juubi sealed into him in the form of the Kyuubi) while the older son gained power in his eyes (The Sharingan eyes were born from the corruption of the Juubi's power).
I think Susanoo is actually a manifestation of the spirit of the oldest son. If the Uchiha have his blood in their veins, perhaps they also carry some of the taint of his hateful spirit and that Susanoo is the physical manifestation of that.
*Dies from lack of breath.*
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 30, 2010 at 5:28 am
Kishimoto and Naruto probably don't want to dwell on Minato's and Kushina's deaths. He probably wants it to see noble, and not seem sad. To seem like they are going to, to some degree, be able to have happiness with their son and ultimately rest in peace.
holydemonandy said this on July 30, 2010 at 8:03 am
If Naruto and Sasuke was really related to the two sons of the Sage then he should be at par with Sasuke even WITHOUT the Kyubi, ryt? The Kyubi should be at least a bonus for him because his parents did it to him, ryt? unlike Sasuke that have a Sharingan which is a specialized weapon, Naruto has none. I mean what Naruto has without the kyubi is a large tank for chakra nothing more. I mean all his "special" features came from the Kyubi and if not for his parents it shouldnt be inside of him in the first place.
gudoruto said this on July 30, 2010 at 9:18 am
Everyone, I've figured it out…. Madara is Naruto (Madarato) from a future time. Naruto was forced to take Sasuke's eye(s), much like Kakashi and Obito, and Madarato wants the Kyuubi back to make him whole… oh, Madarato uh…also died his hair…
arpotu said this on July 30, 2010 at 10:29 am
But if he kills himself in the past, then he cannot exist in the future, which also means he can't become whole. Also, if he takes the Kyuubi out of Naruto, then he is essentially taking it out of himself in the past, which means he wouldn't have had it to need to become whole in the first place.
So taking it out of himself is oddly self hindering.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 30, 2010 at 10:40 am
Actually, we don't know how closely Naruto is related to the youngest son of the Sage. At the moment, we know that the Uzumaki are distantly related to the Senju, so that means Naruto is technically a descendant of the youngest son, just as Sasuke is a descendant of the oldest, and his special traits would be the longevity of life and strength in body.
I do, however, have a feeling that Naruto's sage like transformation after he absorbed the Kyuubi's chakra is hinting that there is more to this than we have seen so far, so I guess we just have to wait it out a bit.
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 30, 2010 at 10:44 am
@tenrai: maybe some event occurs between now and then, where something else removes the Kyuubi, and Madarato has to travel back to now-ish – a time when his former self had Kyuubi.
arpotu said this on July 30, 2010 at 11:21 am
Hey do you people really believe in this Madarato crap? Hahaha No offense @Arpotu i just find it very ridiculous! Hehehe
gudoruto said this on July 30, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Pardon me for switching gears back but I gotta chime in again…
Before giving a lecture on wishful thinking or what is and isn't evidence you might wanna look up the definition of the word. I got no problem with you disagreeing, it happens here all the time, but the way people debate each other I think is kinda important.
Where's your pics or examples from specific points in the manga against Minato learning senjutsu? If you wanna just call things out as "FAIL theories" and flat out say I'm dead wrong then you're more wrong than you're claiming me to be, in more ways than one. I don't have proof that it happened, but you don't have proof that it didn't happen in the backdrop of the story.
This manga leaves a lot up to reader's assumptions about what is and what coulda been. Like where and when the heck did Sasuke train or sign a contract with some hawk beasts out there? No clue. It just happened in the unseen backdrop and we're all like WTF? So why is thinking Minato trained as a sage so crazy?
Lastly, it's here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/20/ and the page before it that really gets me. I think it makes more sense for fukusaku to be talking about naruto surpassing the other two in sage ability, not just in general as a ninja, in turn suggesting that minato was a sage along with jiraiya. At THIS point, would anyone say that naruto would kick minato's ass in a straight up fight? Not so sure about that. Maybe after controlling the kyubi, yes. But after that rasengan? I don't think so.
*Dies next to Tenrai*
kahmix said this on July 30, 2010 at 12:20 pm
I know, I know… I'm just having fun. If Madara really is Naruto, I feel that I would stop reading the manga, but that would be revealed so late in the game it wouldn't matter – I would have already read it all. Once again, just having fun XD
arpotu said this on July 30, 2010 at 12:27 pm
@ arpotu – maybe its cell traveling back in time to become complete with the tailed beast chakra (ki) XD
lackofimagination said this on July 30, 2010 at 2:09 pm
@lack: lol there ya go – Naruto is actually a Kishimoto/Toriyama crossover!! The truth is revealed!
arpotu said this on July 30, 2010 at 2:15 pm
@Arpotu: If we're talking multiple dimensions and parallel universes then yeah, lol, Madara could be Naruto. Travel back in time, extract the Kyubi, kill himself and still exist. 😉
@Kahmix: Naruto vs. Minato. Now that's a good idea. ^_-
supertrek89 said this on July 30, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Me? I'm always talking other dimensions and parallel cosmos, but I understand… Naruto must reside in his particular cosmology 🙂 (Still like the name, tho… "Madarato"… has a nice ring to it… a toe ring to be precise…
arpotu said this on July 30, 2010 at 2:40 pm
@ Kahmix,
Lol. Keep your shirt on. We're not debating the existance of God or anything important. And your evidence is my evidence as well. Like I said before, where does it say that to have a cape, be able to summon toads or have flames on clothes one must be a Sage. Nowhere.
But if you want proof I'll give you something logical;
Minato got the cape after he became Hokage. Remember what it says on the back?!?
So that's not Sage related but it does leave the question why Naruto was wearing something similar. Simple. Kishi did it as an homage to Minato AND Jiraiya. Besides, if the cape is a sign of Sage mastery why isn't Naruto still wearing it…
On the summoning I can be brief. Naruto was able to summon toads way before he became a Sage.
And the flames, just a reference to the will of fire.
There's no need to overthink everything.
1redbaron1 said this on July 30, 2010 at 3:37 pm
@1redbaron1: Lol, no. Kahmix isn't the one getting agitated it seems. 😛 If I recall long ago on a variety of forums people were debating on whether or not Naruto was the 4th's son just because he looked like the Yondaime.
Fail argument on this theory;
"Minato looks like Naruto so it MUST be true" (1redbaron1)
So looks can mean something after all. Who would've thought? ^_-
supertrek89 said this on July 30, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Wow it took me quite some time to read everyone's posts, thing \i usually do before commenting on something that might already have been brought up, anyway overall great chapter but it was a predictable one. Only thing we've learned is that the fox had indeed shrunk almost 5x as much as seen in this panel:http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/8
Comparing the way the paw of the kyuubi looked before the demon soul was done and then after, in the right upper panel, it looks like even if half the kyuubi was sealed a lot more of it's mass was taken then just half.
And the other thing was the way hiruzen knew that minato was doing the demon soul tech, I thought you couldn't see that tech unless u were a victim of it, so how come hiruzen saw the marks, or better yet what marks did he see? The ones on the reaper's arms or something else, because he made the argument before the kyuubi was sealed so the seal on Minato's belly was out of the question.
Anyway great chapter with a great sad ending to it, if u still don't like it Ahsan I have a hug for u too, guess we'll see if Bee and Naruto have some shark file next time, or continue training or maybe even join the war.
And as for the deidara vs Kisame debate:
Well, we have two very unique styles of fighting here, one is Long range and one is short to mid range.
I actually can't choose this time around one factor is that I hate Deidara's ass for being a bitch in the Gaara fight.
But seeing as Sharky can repair himself with the aid of samehada and actually absorb massive amounts of chakra in a couple of seconds can prove to be a decisive factor in a fight that and being the akatsuki with the most chakra, it should only take seconds for kisame to finish the job.
But if you take in consideration what Super said and we see \deidara taking to the skies at the start then he has kisame in the ropes, one bite from that giant GARUDA or the micro bombs and kisame is fish bait, unless he has some way of defusing the bombs like sasuke did or at least neutralize them for a short while the kisame is FTW ALL THE WAY.
That's all I got for now, oh and happy birthday for yesterday Super, may all your wishes of the Naruto Manga being called Sasuke come true, caught Not! caught, jk, hope u had a great B day dude.
Eugen said this on July 30, 2010 at 4:50 pm
I meant cough Not cough.
English and ear pain killers don't go well together. sry for any other typos I can barely sit str8 at the pc, spelling grammatically correct English is a bit of of the question noW, sayonara lads and ladies.
Eugen said this on July 30, 2010 at 5:01 pm
@eugen: is that the carisoprodol talking? o.O 🙂
arpotu said this on July 30, 2010 at 5:31 pm
"So looks can mean something after all. Who would've thought?"
In terms of lineage, yes. In terms of skill… No.
@ Kahmix
If Minato could use Sage mode that means he would have been able to summon Fukasaku and Shima. Meaning he doesn't need time to gather Sage chakra himself. That would have given him the ability to deal with Kyuubi without sacrificing himself. The fact that he didn't summon or tried to summon those two means he isn't a Sage.
1redbaron1 said this on July 30, 2010 at 5:39 pm
@ arpotu :)):)) it actually Coxtral. I know I know the name dr Cox comes to mind, don' make fun of me, i'm in a lot of pain and can'y fight back at the moment
Eugen said this on July 30, 2010 at 5:42 pm
@eugen: hmm Dr. Cox sounds like a purveyor of useful things 😉
arpotu said this on July 30, 2010 at 5:47 pm
OMG!!! Super's birthday??? @__@
Happy birthday SUPER!!!!! *Feels bad now because he didn't say it earlier.* T__T
For your birthday, I will promise not to eat you for a weak. ^ ^
*Eats Eugen as a substitute.* Sorry, you were the first name I saw… <_<
Tenrai Senshi said this on July 30, 2010 at 6:42 pm
*snatches Eugen from the jaws of death*
whew…close one man.
Happy Birthday Super!!
*runs away to hide before Tenrai realizes what's happened*
dish11 said this on July 30, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Yeah sure Fukusaku did referred Minato and Jiraiya when he said that Naruto already surpassed them. But it is not conclusive to say that Minato did undergo the same training as Naruto. Take note of what Gamakichi was saying : http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/19/
he was referring to the FORM of Naruto with the cape and stuff.
Second, we all know that Naruto surpasses Kakashi also, ryt? but Fukusaku never mentioned him because he did not know Kakashi personally meaning his referral to Minato is just because he knows Minato not because he is a Sage but because Minato has a contract with the toads.
Third, Fukusaku never mentioned Minato during his Sage training. Its easy to refer to Minato because Naruto knows him and i dont think there is nothing wrong if Fukusaku referred to the 4th Hokage.
Fourth, The Great Elder toad spoke to Jiraiya and Naruto and never mentioned to have talked to Minato (or at least still not mentioned) If someone is under the Sage training it is inevitable not to talk to the Great Elder toad and the toad never really mentioned meeting Minato.
Last and most important, Aside from the FORM in which Gamakichi was referring to, DO YOU REALLY THING NARUTO CAN SURPASS THE FOURTH HOKAGE IN TERMS OF NINJA Skills? I dont think so, sure Naruto is the main character in this manga but as seen in the manga the fourth gave the responsibility of defeating Madara to Naruto not because he cannot defeat Madara, its because Madara got away.
gudoruto said this on July 30, 2010 at 9:06 pm
@gudoruto- Well Naruto may not surpass him in every way, but by finishing the Rasengan he has already surpassed him in at the very least that aspect. Also given time he could probably surpass him fully. Just think about it, he has gotten as far as he has gotten and is only 16, how old was Minato when he fought the Kyubi? can't exactly compare 16 year old Naruto to an older Minato, if we knew how strong Minato was when he was Naruto's age then we could make a more accurate comparison, but until then we can only speculate, and at this point I would probably lean towards Naruto being just as good as his father when he was 16.
@supertrek89- Happy Belated B-day =P
Prediction: Naruto wakes from his little trance to find Kisame laying the smack down on Kirabee and has to do something about it =P
Bubble: There's Kubo Tite!! A full years salary to the one who brings back his head!!
Caption: You know you've gone too far when the characters of the manga you rip off actually put out a hit on you O.O
Bubble: There he is!! The Bastard that keeps putting words in our mouths!! Get Him!!
Caption: Run Captain Pickles, RUN!!!
iamnotreallyhere said this on July 30, 2010 at 10:44 pm
@baron – Your reasoning that Minato could have summoned Fukusaku and Shima so that he wouldn't have had to sacrifice himself doesn't hold water so unfortunately you can't use that as a reason why he's not a sage. Suggesting he wasn't is one thing, but again your evidence isn't any more concrete than mine is. And I'm typing this with my shirt on even…
Why doesn't it hold up? Because minato didn't have to sacrifice himself in the first place. He DECIDED to. Go back and read the chapter and you'll be able to throw out your logic on your own there.
@gudo – That panel you're referring to only proves my point even more: that all of these different points leave different impressions on different readers. I see it as one thing, you see it as another, and I'm sure three other people could chime in with different things gamakichi and fukusaku saw and meant when naruto laid the smack down w/ that rasengan.
You make a good point about Minato not being mentioned, I still suspect that it was because everyone and their mom had sealed lips about him around naruto. Of course I've considered all that in whether I think he was probably a sage or not, but I'm still not swayed. Can't be sure of course, but I think he was and maybe I'll end it at that.
As for naruto not EVER being able to surpass minato? Umm, I'm not sure you wanna take that stance cuz I won't even have to weigh in on that one. There'll be plenty of other people to debate-ttebayo otherwise
kahmix said this on July 30, 2010 at 11:10 pm
sup guys long time stalker and 1st time posting. always enjoy the discussions and am ready ta start chiming in. cant wait ta add 2cent in along w/ Kisu, usper,gavin, shinrai, eugen, mandy and ne other regulars i failed to mention. K enough with the creepy stalkin. keepin it AWSOMENESSSS
10evsama01 said this on July 31, 2010 at 12:10 am
Anyone notice how, in the manga, the "main fight" has now officially become "Naruto vs Madara" rather than "Naruto vs Sasuke"? Naruto now will have the goal of becoming stronger than Madara, rather than becoming stronger than Sasuke.
I think Sasuke will go into deep emo mode upon hearing this, and as a result he will be able to summon entire armies of Susanoo, and be able to use the amaterasu like he uses lightning jitsu. Cause he complains loudly about being the last Uchiha… cause he killed the other one…
arpotu said this on July 31, 2010 at 1:11 am
Naruto did leveled up this time but its only chakra-wise. I hope Kishi would develop Naruto jutsu-wise like the Thunder-god technique. I think someone needs to teach him this but Jiraiya is dead and who do you think will? does kakashi know this? It could also be a Uzumaki-Senju secret hideout just like the Uchiha and maybe theres jutsu scrolls there. Hmmmm…
gudoruto said this on July 31, 2010 at 2:46 am
@gudo you said that Naruto can't surpass Minato but you forget one thing the Rasengan.
kantonkage said this on July 31, 2010 at 2:50 am
i just thought of something right now, when minato transferred the kyuubi blast while standing on the hokage MT., im just wondering where all that energy went… i mean i know he sealed it but kishi never really went into depth on how that works or where sealed objects go.
for that matter, where did deidera's arm go when kakashi warped it?
"16 years ago: kumo explodes"
raikage"damn you yellow flash!!"
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 4:27 am
@ Kahmix,
Your dismissing the fact that Minato wouldn't have decided to sacrifice himself IF he had another good option like use Sage Mode. Minato sacrificed himself because he believed that was his best option.
That's what I meant. And the rest of my logic holds up too.
Let's sum up the facts:
Minato developed and taught Jiraiya the rasengan, Jiraiya taught it to Naruto. Not Sage related in any kind.
Minato wore the cape after becoming Hokage, meaning it is an Hokage cape and not Sage related.
Naruto learned how to summon toads when he was 12. So a contract with the toads is not Sage related. Minato signed the contract while training under Jiraiya and grew up with Gamabunta much like Naruto is now growing up with Gamakichi.
1redbaron1 said this on July 31, 2010 at 6:32 am
@ sage minato
I dont see how he could've had the time to learn sage mode on top of developing flying thunder god, all its variants, rasengan AND
going on missions for the village, and btw, was he born before or after the war started? i honestly dont know, either way he was doing that too…
is it safe to use the jiraiya gaiden as cannon? if it isnt, is it safe to assume that its not very far from the truth?we know he found the frog mt. on accident and if what the gaiden said was true, he began learning senjutsu at around the same time his in depth ninjutsu training started I.E. after he graduated the academy, so he was tutored at a young age and he still wasnt perfect at senjutsu. thats why i dont believe minato could have known sage mode, or if he did, his mastery of it was far from adequete…….
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 6:55 am
guys guys stop fighting over minato is a sage or not
even if he isnt a sage he can pwn the shit out of jiraya , naruto and all other sages
Ahsan 阿赫桑 said this on July 31, 2010 at 7:01 am
I totally agree with you, yodaime owns all, excluding THE sage…
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 7:33 am
My point exactly… The Hell with Rasenshiruken, it would NEVER hit Minato… Hahaha
gudoruto said this on July 31, 2010 at 8:01 am
"it would NEVER hit Minato"
Thats what kakuzu thought XD
although he doesnt have ftg sooo, nvm minato owns all!
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 8:07 am
@ 10evsama01 sup, keep on the stalking and the posting and welcome to la famillia WRA. 😉
Eugen said this on July 31, 2010 at 10:11 am
I actually think that Minato doesn't need sage mode at all, everyone has his own special style of fighting and for someone as strong as minato was the Sage tech would just have made him way to strong.
The guy had the FTG, rassengan, toad summoning, and a lot of sealing jutsus to boot and probably a lot more tech we don't know about. But there's only so much u can do and the fact that Minato was so strong at such a young age meant one thing, the DUde didn't need sage mode to rule over everyone.
The only thing that bugs me is that Tobirama was this well versatile ninja with tech such as impure world resurrection, a form of FTG, that genjutsu that made everything black, well in the anime tobirama did it and in the manga Hashirama did it so can't tell yet if both could do it.
All I'm saying is this guy was a power house, with jutsu that could own anyone, so how come we haven't seen more about him so far. With a arsenal like that In my opinion Tobirama could beat Minato or at least be equals at the end. Guess we'll have to wait and see if Kishi's gonna give us a Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara gaiden.
Eugen said this on July 31, 2010 at 10:28 am
When you put it like that, he does sound incredibly strong, with moves like his it makes you wonder how those kumo nin took him out….
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 10:39 am
What i would like to see is a movie wherein all the past Hokage are in action! Oh yeah!
gudoruto said this on July 31, 2010 at 11:11 am
I always wished that the naruto movies would have backstory that couldnt be covered in the show, like for example, a movie concerning the original seven swordsmen of the mist, zauzba's attempted coup on the mizukage,a movie per hokage etc. etc., it would be cool right?
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 11:17 am
Sorry dude. It's NOT a "hokage cape". Go back to this post http://iareawesomeness.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/minato-sage-or-surreal/ and check out the pic from the manga that shows Jiraiya's young self wearing the cape, presumably after he was done training with the toads.
And seriously, the last chapter comes out and says directly from Minato's mouth that he's sealing the kyubi in naruto so the power balance b/w the Biju's of all the countries is not offset. So here's the real fact from the last chapter: Kushina is about to die, leaving the kyubi without a jinchuuriki and leaving the kyubi up for Madara to grab. Minato know's Naruto is the better host because he carries his mom's blood but somehow you're twisting all this to mean minato didn't have enough skill for a plan B? I don't think so. Like the chapter itself says, he chose what he thought was the best option. Not the only one.
And I'm aware of when naruto signed the toad contract and summoned gamabunta. It was a pretty significant occurence in the manga. Being a sage obviously isn't a pre-requisite so I'm not sure what you're proving. But it does go a long way in suggesting it's a good precursor to working with the toads and becoming a sage, doesn't it? That was my point on that one. It goes towards fueling the probability
kahmix said this on July 31, 2010 at 11:22 am
@everyone else
Nah, of course he didn't need sage mode. I think that's something we could all agree on. Makes me wonder then, why did naruto's character develop to master both sage mode and the kyubi inside him? I'm sure he coulda been badass enough with just controlling the 9 tails. Necessary for both against sasuke and madara? Maybe, maybe not. Necessary for minato to be a sage on top of his other techs? Maybe, maybe not.
kahmix said this on July 31, 2010 at 11:30 am
@ westerndjango, Actually now that you brought it up I've been very curios if Tobirama actually died by there hands, I know he said that who would act as bait would die, but com'on minato and hashirama were know'en to kill a lot more enemies at once then 20 anbu hunters,so maybe he died then and there or maybe he didn't that's what I want to know, How was Tobirama and how strong he really was in comparison with the other kages.
@ gudaruto & westerndjango, that movie idea would rock, to think we could see all the shinobi wars and the caliber of each kage just blows one's mind. Hope kishi reads this blog, cause this could be the mother of all Naruto Movies ever.
Eugen said this on July 31, 2010 at 11:33 am
Chapter 139 http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/139/15/ shows jiraiya wearing the its-not-a-hokage-cape
kahmix said this on July 31, 2010 at 11:45 am
@ kahmix, actually I would have preferred Naruto only mastering the sage Mode instead of the kyuubi. Sure Kyuubi is the best power up out there but it's not Naruto's own merit while Sannin mode is something he mastered all on his own, and to be able to find a way to gather Natural energy while moving could have been Naruto's way of perfecting the technique.
But I've also suggested this before, now that naruto can separate the mind of the kyuubi from it's chakra and possibly become friends with the beast he could rely on the kyuubi to do the stillness part for him while Naruto moves and kicks ass. So while the kyuubi gathers the NAtural energy NAruto could have a almost limitless supply of chakra, both natural, kyuubi and his own for that matter.
So that actually makes Naruto a limitless chakra vessel.
Eugen said this on July 31, 2010 at 11:53 am
@ kahmix, I'm not against the whole Minato sage theory but think about this, in the last pic u posted Jiyraia was about 6 years old, about the same age team 7 did that drill with kakashi right, well Jiyaria already had the flame cape on, so it wouldn't suggest he had it from the frogs either because he was to young to earn the title of sage yet from the frogs thus learning the sage arts. So the cape is nothing more then Jiyaia's own clothing to start with. Don't take my post as offensive or something like that cause I only pointed out what I think, and I said it before, Minato could or could not have been a sage but in my opinion he didn't need to be.
Eugen said this on July 31, 2010 at 12:01 pm
@ Kahmix,
So because Jiraiya wore a robe with flames on it WAY before he became a Sage the cape that Minato wore AFTER he became Hokage and reads Fourth Hokage on the back is not a Hokage cape but a Sage cape…. ?!?
And you blame me for not supporting your theory.
And no that pic of Jiraiya isn't from after training with the toads. It's before. As we all know the two bells test is done after the academy students finish the academy and try out for the genin rank. Back then Jiraiya didn't even know about the toads. So, like I said before, it's just a reference to the Will of Fire.
Jiraiya wore the robe from the moment team Sarutobi was formed.
1redbaron1 said this on July 31, 2010 at 1:08 pm
im not against it, except i dont see how he could've have the time to do the training in that time period on top of all his other training.and about the cloak, his says yodaime and like eugen said jiraiya has always worn his.so really naruto is the only one we know of who recieved his cloak after learning sage mode…also like i said eariler, jiraiya had been training from a young age, so perhaps he may have taught him senjutsu principals, like determination,but like said, there's a war going on at around this time sooo….yar
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 1:25 pm
No offense taken guys, I'm just defending my stance here…alone it seems. I do concede that Jiraiya had his fiery apparel on before becoming a sage. It's a good point definitely noted. But in a "WTF are you talking about??!?" kinda way, I'm still seeing it the same way (to symbolize a character's aesthetic "mark" as a sage) and I'll tell ya why…
From the beginning, Kishi has done two very significant things in the creation of this manga. 1) He's introduced a lot of symbolism early on. With the characters and with the incorporation of Japanese folklore (if you don't know what I'm talking about, look up Susanoo, 9 tailed fox, Amaterasu, Jiraiya, etc in the context of Japanese history).
2) He's been one of the most purposeful authors I've ever come across in this manga. Cases in point: He brought at least two things full circle over a huge span of chapters. What are they? This for one: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/4/01/. That's the cover from CHAPTER 4! How early on was that and look what happened. Sasuke ends up summoning Manda three hundred and fifty-nine chapters later. Also, the swirly mark on the konoha ninja's backs. It took Kushina mentioning it in chapter 500 something for us to get the background of it. Kishi writes and illustrates with very specific purpose, which is why I admire the manga.
With all that said, there are too many symbolic, very purposeful elements in this manga that I doubt anyone could ignore in the recipe for this evolving story. No, it's not enough to convince anyone else about what I've been saying, but I don't think I'm being a madman for using it to base an assumption about one aspect of one character in the story. I'm perfectly fine and understand that you don't think minato was a sage (everyone?). And hopefully you can understand me too in the context of what I've ranted about and be fine with my stance too. Cuz you won't convince me otherwise
kahmix said this on July 31, 2010 at 2:45 pm
@10evsama01: Welcome to WRA good sir! Continue to comment but with a bit improved spelling and you'll officially relinquish your stalker status. 😉
@Westerndjango: Minato warped the Kyubi's blast, its entire body, and himself past some mountains miles away from Konoha. Also, Kakashi didn't warp Deidara's arm to another dimension. He just warped it off and it was later reattached to Diedara.
@Newcomers: You all can start getting pictures on your gravatars instead of those weird monsters. Just edit your profiles and upload a cool/preferred pic from your PC or internet.
@Everyone: Thanks for the birthday wishes now please send money. >(^_-)>
Lastly! Where were all of you in the Naruto vs. Minato debate we had in 2009!? -_-
supertrek89 said this on July 31, 2010 at 2:51 pm
As for minato not having enough time to master senjutsu, I can't really consider that a reason he wouldn't be able to. He was labeled a "genious" somewhere in the manga I believe, and at a young age. Remember this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/68/16/ when Gai said that even with the sharingan, Sasuke shouldn't have been able to perfect Lee's move that quickly? It seems like geniouses get time-skip bonuses when it comes to learning things.
And besides, who are we to say how much time he had or didn't have to train? A guy smart enough to come up with the rasengan and FTG should be a quick learner I think.
I'm loving the debate though. I've never had this much to add on WRA. Thanks guys!
kahmix said this on July 31, 2010 at 2:58 pm
@Kahmix: Sorry but yeah you may be the only one but "may" is the keyword here. I'm on the fence teetering towards the 'Nah Camp'. I just think if Minato had a Sage Mode Kishi would have shown it to us by now but regarding that it's not like Minato had a lot of time to show us in any of his battles. There's a movie coming out with Minato later on, maybe that's the time. Naruto goes back in time and meets his dad. If there's a chance for Minato to show a Sage Mode it's then.
We just have to ignore the non-canon material…>_>
supertrek89 said this on July 31, 2010 at 2:59 pm
@Super – Happy birthday, bro
kahmix said this on July 31, 2010 at 2:59 pm
Im talking before that, id post a link only i dont know how to, but its in chapter 502 page 8, and when i went back to look for it, i answered my own question:the blast is transported safely just out of the village…whatever, i like my idea with the backdoor of the seal being on top of kumo better XD jk jk
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 5:01 pm
504 was cheesy to the most extreme sense of the word. And Minato's excuses won't hold up in court. YOU ABANDONED YOUR SON YOU BASTARD! He did it just because he couldnt go on without Kushina…there are so many other women out there *sigh* japs.
kisuzachi said this on July 31, 2010 at 5:25 pm
ohhhh there's been some good debates here! How about we add another shall we? *evil smile appears*
Kushina gave her motherly opinion in the last chap… what do you all think about it? 😉
bbgurly14 said this on July 31, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Well, if he really wants a girl like mom, it should be naru karui
westerndjango said this on July 31, 2010 at 5:49 pm
happy birthday super!hehehe
会長加賀 Chairman Kaga said this on July 31, 2010 at 8:14 pm
@bb well thinkin hinata and kushina are a bit alike. they were both tried to be captured by kumo and have sacraficed themselves for their lovers.
but altogetheer i hate sakura so anybody would be better, even karin, and thats sayin something
minatotheyellowflash said this on July 31, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Question about the son's of the Rikudō Sennin. Now if i am correct the Sharingan stemmed from a mutation of the Byakugan right, and didnt Kakashi explain how in most ways the Hyūga's dojutsu surpassed Sharingan. So my question is what kind of dojustu did the son have??
10evsama01 said this on July 31, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Ok, Sakura is fiery but weird as hell. Hinata isnt fiery and isnt THAT weird. So both dont fulfil the criteria. So its either NaruIno cuz she's fiery and isnt weird and then there's Narutenten, for the same reasons.
But isnt it funny how Naruto broke all of his parents' wishes. He didnt watch out for Jiraiya and became a perv just like him, he's a picky eater, he was a shrimp in Part 1, he never had any respect for is teachers (poor Iruka's blood pressure), he was a slacker and never became too adept at ninjutsu, he borrowed money in fillers, and lent money to Jiraiya (or got his money taken by Jiraiya lol).
Maybe he'll follow this trend and dont take her advice about women! HA!
kisuzachi said this on July 31, 2010 at 9:24 pm
@10evsama01, his Dojutsu looks similar to the Rinnegan, however instead of the concentric circles, he has spirals.
kisuzachi said this on July 31, 2010 at 9:33 pm
@kisu, ahh i see thanks for the link, so i can only imagine that both sharingan and Byakugan both stem from the eldest son
10evsama01 said this on July 31, 2010 at 10:27 pm
Kushina/Hinata Similarities
– Both kidnapped by Thunder Village for their Blood Limits.
– Both decendants related to Rikudo Kushina body, Hinata eyes.
– Personalitys alike each other Except Kushina expresses herself from frustration I think and Hinata through determination.
– Naruto is Loud and Hinata is Quiet, Sakura is just a annoying.
– Naruto and Hinata both wear the Same style of Ninja Attire even similar style Jump Suits as to Sakuras Clothing that resembles a typical Sasuke Groopie.
– Naruto and Hinata even share the same Ninja Code like minds are perfect for each other.
– Hinata can teach Naruto secret Hyuuga Seals, Sakura Medical jutsu wtf is Naruto gonna need with Medical jutsu.
– Plus Hinata is a Quiet girl all the Boys know they're the Best.
– Hinata is a Hyuuga Princess just Like Kushina would of been somekind of specialty to be sent to Konoha, Sakura is just a Hurano.
– Hinata is perfect because Naruto doesnt know hes got it so good yet, Sakura is truly in Narutos friend Zone and thats Where she will stay untill Sasuke has Stabilised.
BlackBurstBoom said this on August 1, 2010 at 12:04 am
I think with Narutos new Chakra upgrade instead of his Fox cloak that he used to have he will have his own style of Sage Cloak.
Like how before his Nature Chakra could attack you it will now be Visable possibly Orange like due his Sage transformation being Powered up. And instead of it Burning like Fox style it will kinda be like Frog Chakra how it turn you into stone or something but it will be a perfect counter balance in controlling Powerful Burning chakras in future.
I also think the Uzumaki clan when they Use the Dead Demon seal their Chakra chains hold their soul inplace allowing them to fully seal anything or anyone, I think that is THAT JUTSU..Minato wants his son to perfect.
BlackBurstBoom said this on August 1, 2010 at 12:17 am
Actually scratch that last part I dont even wanna go anywhere near THAT JUTSU…
But Im wondering how Kushinas chakra supressing chains ability will be used by Naruto like if it will envelop naturally when he uses Seals or if he can cast chains over Susanoo with a Jutsu?
@Minatos Jacket – Isnt it Hanging in Sakuras House?
BlackBurstBoom said this on August 1, 2010 at 1:09 am
depends if this was a you can leave when you want and come back later type of fight. If it is then as long as deidara could get on his bird i don't see how kisame catches up to him as deidara leaves the place, a few days later finds kisame and bombs the shit out of the area. otherwise if it's one continuous fight it's a close call. As soon as kisame gets close it's game over, and as soon as deidara is out of range it's not likely he'll get back in kisame's range. All in all kisame needs chakra to heal himself, and deidara in all likely hood can stay out of kisame's reach (he did manage to avoid capture at the hands of team gai with no arms)… i say deidara wins because he's shown the ability to fight water based chakra beasts with low intellect before, where as kisame has not shown to be able to fight at long range, massive scale=yes, but massive scale does not mean long range.
@amaterasu- Kismae can use another element, when he is about to fight team gai he does that submarine voyage thing and makes it look like a shark is coming at them. So far both sources i've seen says that the technique is an earth based one. All in all, kisame is strong enough he could probably find some boulders and kill one bird with two stones.
Alec said this on August 1, 2010 at 3:36 am
Ok Naruto's storyline hit a HUGE hole… who raised him? How come the village didn't know he was born? I mean he was the 4ths son and the Hokage is the most renowned person in the village and i'm sure they saw his mom walkin around pregnant
greyfox2012 said this on August 1, 2010 at 4:49 pm
and at the ppl who say Minato is a sage… how can u base a theory off a coat?… as a matter of fact Jiraiya didn't have that coat, that gear he wore was the clothes to symbolize him as a hermit in a way… the 4th had that with the flames as the bottom of the leaf… you know the sfamous saying "The burning fire" or the fire burns in the youth or watever they said about fire that remaltes to that so with Naruto as a symbol that the fire burns within him.
greyfox2012 said this on August 1, 2010 at 6:00 pm
@grey That plothole was always there. Naruto's upbringing that is.
kantonkage said this on August 1, 2010 at 8:00 pm
@massive plothole
Orphanage maybe? perhaps he stayed there, but they were a part of those who treated him badly being the reason why he doesnt have fond memories of anyone…maybe?
westerndjango said this on August 2, 2010 at 4:04 am
holydemonandy said this on August 2, 2010 at 8:31 am
Sorry for double post but…
@BlackBurst: I'm sorry but that changed at the fourth reason…
"- Naruto is Loud and Hinata is Quiet, Sakura is just a annoying."
From Hinata ~ Kushina to Hinata > Sakura for Naruto.
Second of all you're such a ****-***** ***** yourself thinking every guy is the same. Reminds me of those people that cause girls to think all guys love big breasts and big butts. Being loud but not the majority.
I for one prefer a happy medium. I want someone who can talk and offer ideas – someone I can bounce ideas off of – and will act as a cheer leader and give me support, not someone who's going to stay quiet as though they're good for nothing but smacking around.
Excuse me, that's most likely not the reason you like quiet girls, but I'm getting a tad carried away. Sakura can help keep control of Naruto to some degree, and heal him when he's been hurt (although by this point healing is neigh useless except for when and if he were to get poisoned, which isn't totally likely).
As for Hinata, the seals could be helpful, yes, I will admit that.
Happy belated birthday Super! 😀
holydemonandy said this on August 2, 2010 at 8:40 am
Thanks whoever combined my posts, and sorry about triple post again, ugh. X3 I just thought of a new debate topic when I realized how little of pairings like this we actually see.
If you read MSPA, then you'll know when I mean when I say love-hate relationship, yin yang relationship, love-love relationship, or whatever.
NaruSasu, what relationship might they have given what we have seen so far, if they were a coupling!
SakuIno or SakuHina… Same as before, and considering we've seen an interaction or two with Saku Hina we can at least use our imaginations, right?
THIRDLY! Here's a really good NaruHina fanfiction for any who are interested. I enjoy it as well, despite being NaruSaku fan. XD
I might join in discussions because these actually interest me a little! 😀 Extra points for creativity. ^,^
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6170908/1/ The writer of this fanfic is also currently looking for ideas for Hinata to ask Naruto during training. Hope everyone enjoys.
holydemonandy said this on August 2, 2010 at 10:29 am
@Holydemonandy: Are you American???
BlackBurstBoom said this on August 2, 2010 at 10:32 am
Yes actually, apparently that makes me stupid, obese, and ignorant. Is that what you're going to imply? Or am I jumping the gun and just making an ass of myself? 🙂
I hope it's the latter, actually, to be honest with you. But considering the latter would just add to a bad reputation for Americans… I don'know… ^,^ And I guess I'm stereotyping you as well, by assuming that you'll think ill of Americans because you're asking that, and through that, assuming you're foreign. Sorry about that – completely.
holydemonandy said this on August 2, 2010 at 10:34 am
I was born in the States but Raised in Australia Ive been back and forth, but My friend American and Aussie Women are 100% differant.
Hinata has it All she just hasnt come out of her shell yet she has so much more to offer.
Sakura and Naruto are too much alike almost like brother and sista, Sasuke could find more Romance their because he likes Naruto as a friend Sakura is just a Female version of Naruto so its the perfect Substitute.
Hinata also has no place really leefft in the Hyuuga House.
That comment about American woman…yea, let's try not to generalize so much, ok? Especially not in such a manner. 😉
BlackBurstBoom said this on August 2, 2010 at 10:41 am
That's true, Burst, and when you think about it, it really is. :O I just still think that Sakura cares about Naruto to some degree, she just doesn't know how to do what's best for Naruto. XD But she has actually comforted him before. I think it was once during the time before the Land of Iron arc but after the Pein arc. Sakura actually complains here, wondering why she's comforting him when he should be comforting her.
holydemonandy said this on August 2, 2010 at 10:45 am
Sakura when she punches Naruto and stresses about him thats her immature way of loving Naruto but she hasnt realised this yet shes to young to understand, Yamato pointed it out when Naruto hurt Sakura but she didnt get it.
When Hinata was hurt fighting for Naruto and Sakura healed her she understood Hinatas Pain cause she too Loves Naruto but she also Loves Sasuke and because of that shes confused.
At every Confrontation Naruto and Sasuke have Shes in the Middle and she will always be in the Middle until there is a Winner and the she will Love the Looser, Well I just see Sakura undecided when it comes to Love and Hinata she is so Shy she at least knows what she wants and is willing to Die for it.
Plus Naruto is So Dumb he didnt really realise what Hinata was doing for him untill she had to spell it out for him.
BlackBurstBoom said this on August 2, 2010 at 10:54 am
Very true, Blackburst. 🙂
holydemonandy said this on August 2, 2010 at 10:57 am
Thanks Im glad we can Agree, Holydemonandy. 🙂
BlackBurstBoom said this on August 2, 2010 at 11:04 am
@Blackburst and Holydemonandy Well Naruto is:
A) an orphan that has never experienced love before
B) It's not like Hinata was throwing herself at him compare some girls *cough*SakuraKarinIno*cough*.
Personally, I like to call Team Kakashi: Team Dense.
Naruto: not noticing Hinata but he has logical excuses in my opinion
Sakura: failure to notice Naruto's love despite being a good thing it's still is an Epic Fail.
Sasuke: failure to notice Karin's feelings and Itachi's intentions. THE ULTIMATE EPIC FAIL!!!!
kantonkage said this on August 2, 2010 at 11:39 am
oh yeah and the rest of his fanclub.
kantonkage said this on August 2, 2010 at 11:40 am
Wow it actually turned into a " who's the better girl for who " in here.
I'm not a big fan of this type of discussions mainly because Kishi is a very crafty little japanese man.
He's trying to makes us believe that despite Sakura's intense aggression towards Naruto, that results in feelings of care and sympathy and maybe even love.
On the other hand he uses Hinata as the girl who actually comes out and says " hey you clueless dumb ass I love you ", and suddenly Naruto connect's the dots.
But what will Naruto's final decision be? I personally don't like Sakura all that much, and just like Jyiraia failed with Tsunade so should Naruto, who knows maybe were Jyiraia failed Naruto will succeed.
About Hinata, this is a little tricky cause just like the Uchiha this clan is a bit…. on the incest side, if u get me, at least that's what I always thought, "keep the kekegenkai in the family son, now go and marry your 2nd cousin on your mother's side!".
I don't know maybe it stupid to think like that but hey to each his own.
Eugen said this on August 2, 2010 at 3:53 pm
"About Hinata, this is a little tricky cause just like the Uchiha this clan is a bit…. on the incest side,"
Ahsan 阿赫桑 said this on August 2, 2010 at 4:05 pm
This discussion went from questioning who raised naruto, to who is the better girl for naruto, to kekkegenkai=inbreeding…Wow, only on the internet.
westerndjango said this on August 3, 2010 at 4:26 am