system
Given the following post, respond as if you're commenting on Reddit:
human
CMV: If America really wants illegal immigrants out in order to preserve American jobs and save American tax dollars, America should take measures to reduce demand for illegal workers, rather than fight against the incentives by trying to keep them out.

Here is an exchange between a friend of mine and myself, which he abandoned :(, in which I outline what I think would be a reasonable alternative strategy to wallbuilding and fix for some of the employment/economic problems of US immigration enforcement. I would like to continue the conversation with you all and invite commentary about the potential pitfalls of my design (as I do not believe it is at all the overall best solution to the immigration/employment problem, merely a system that could potentially work given the aims outlined in my title, in a vacuum), as well as direct opposition on the basis of a wall or different priorities being somehow better than this approach.  My assumption is that a physical barrier isn't effective at keeping people out, if there is sufficient incentive for them to get in. I realize my friend's argument isn't the most cohesive so I am really only including it for context on the premise. Thanks for reading.

Friend:    


Have you ever worked with anyone that shouldn’t be in America? I’ll tell you a story about a guy named Luis. He can claim tax exempt. Has free healthcare. Gets EBT, I know because this is how he bought lunch one day. \[Il\]legitimately taking a job of an unemployed legal American. Working in the construction field for over 10 years has opened my eyes to the fact that no ones cares they are here they just want everything to be fair. Same healthcare opportunities, same taxes, same pay. But what I have seen is that contractors get what they pay for. Sloppy work and constant call backs. But in reference to the wall. Why does one build a fence? Is it to keep the nonsense out or keep the dog in? I say get rid of the what if’s about the wall. Build it first to keep the President's promise. I believe he was asking for a little more than 2 billion for it out of a budget in the trillions. Best case scenario is we just put people to work. Essentially giving the money back to the people. Build it. Kill the argument.

My response:    


My counter-proposal to your anti-immigrant sentiment is to hold the unpatriotic employers of illegal workers accountable for their illegal employment practices. If there is genuinely an American ready and willing to take a job currently being held by someone without documents, the employer of that illegal worker is culpable for cutting his fellow American out of the workforce. The employer should pay the taxes, and the benefits, and the healthcare for every illegal employee that can be proven on their payroll- as they would typically with any other employee- and pay the equivalent of a median unemployment salary for the American he has disenfranchised, and pay fines on top of it to fund enforcement of the law. That would fix every complaint \^ you have about Luis except his shoddy workmanship...  It would remove the incentive for employers to utilize illegal labor through strict penalties. It would shift the tax burden from everyone to just the law breakers. If employers stopped employing illegal labor, it would reduce demand and not as many people would come here. Once all that deterrent is in place, we just need to enforce everything better. Perhaps you are asking why I would prefer to punish the American businesses and not punish the immigrants? The answer to that is that the immigrants mostly have no power and nothing to take away. If an immigrant comes here and works illegally, they only have their wages. If we take the job away from them, they can't pay fines, or taxes. Jailing and deporting them costs us money, not them. It's better to remove the incentive for them to be here, and have them go away on their own, or follow the proper channels (revise the VISA program, but maintain the onus of tracking on employers?) and get in legally. If you really want to solve this problem, that's the way you do it. As long as there is demand, and incentive for people to come here illegally, and for employers to employ them illegally without sufficient deterrent, people are going to find a way.
gpt
You have the right idea, but you are missing the big reason why it hasn't worked so far, and is unlikely to work anytime soon.  Also why the government won't go for it.

&#x200B;

The problem is as always money.  Companies must be profitable or investors will refuse to give them the money they need to expand and grow.  And with the power that Wall Street now has, this is actually magnified to a huge degree.  (I know everyone likes to blame 'big business' for many of the ills of society, but its actually 'big money' that drives the decisions since upset Wall Street investors can destroy a CEO's career.)  So companies find that due to the massive amount of competition from overseas factories, they need to drive their own costs down if they are to stay profitable.

&#x200B;

But the US and State governments, in an attempt to protect workers have put in so many laws that many low level jobs are actually a detriment to the company.  These are positions they need to fill, but that cost them far more than any benefit they receive.  Yes, you could say the fact that they don't get fined for having unsanitary bathrooms is a huge benefit, but the reality is that unless someone complains, they are unlikely to get fined.  still a clean bathroom means happier and hopefully more productive employees, so you pay for janitors.  There are many other jobs like this, where the immediate benefit is very low, but there is a financial reason to employ people.  Its just the cost of complying with government regulations makes the price for filling these roles very expensive.

&#x200B;

So companies look for ways around the problem.  They figured out long ago that illegal immigrants are far more likely to accept low pay, poor working conditions and unreasonable demands, since the illegal immigrant isn't able to complain to the government.  (they'd be deported even if the company does get fined.)  So many companies are quite happy to ignore the law.

&#x200B;

And government doesn't enforce it.  Which falls into 2 categories.  The Rethugican side doesn't because they love business and want to make big business happy, and big business wants to have cheap labor.  The Demonrats don't enforce it because they see these immigrants as exploited people who will merrily vote for them in all future elections, giving the D party near permanent control over the government.

&#x200B;

The people lose.  

&#x200B;

So while I'd love to agree with you on punishing the businesses.  The problem is first you have to break Wall Street's power so that CEOs and other executives are willing to look for a long term solution to their labor needs and not just looking for the quickest way to save money.  But to do that you'll need to break the back of big government and remove a lot of regulations that manage to drive the cost of hiring a person up so high that having someone who is desperate and scared working for your company is a benefit, even if it is illegal.

&#x200B;

then you can enforce the labor laws without having a mutiny that would get to Wall Street and immediately work to crash the government.

&#x200B;

Its a vicious cycle and yes, the wall isn't the best way to fix it.  But all the better ways are politically impossible at the moment.