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CMV: Communism/Socialism (as theories) sound like utopias, and for that reason I'm skeptical of them.

Some housekeeping:

I say "communism/socialism" because while there are some marked differences between the two, in the years I've spent discussing and researching the subjects I've noticed that everyone seems to have their own definition for what's communism, what's socialism, when one transitions to the other, etc., there seems to be a lot of overlap and, indeed, some people use the terms interchangeably. That's not really the crux of this CMV, though you can correct me if you feel I'm wrong in that analysis. I'll be getting into the general "markers" of communist/socialist societies later. 

I say "as theories" because something else I've noticed is that precious few people seem to actually agree if communism/socialism have every actually been realized in practice. For example, I've seen many people call what I would regard as capitalist democracies that just have some typically socialist policies "socialist countries." For another example, while there are many countries past and present that have called themselves "communist," there's a fair bit of disagreement on if they actually were (notably, since many/most of them failed, they aren't seen as "true" communist societies). 

As for utopias and my skepticism, I think it's healthy to be skeptical of anything that seems too good to be true. When someone accosts you in the grocery store to share how wonderful their pyramid scheme is and how you should participate in it, for example, simply the fact that they're spinning a narrative that's all upside and no downside is reason enough to be weary of their proposal, even if you know nothing else about multi-level marketing. Indeed, I actually recently posted a topic on multiple subs for discussing this topic that went something like "\[Socialists/Communists\]: what, if anything, are the downsides inherent/unique to socialism/communism" and I got pretty scant replies. A lot of it was just stuff like "ah, well, people will be doing so well that overpopulation will still be a problem," i.e. stuff that's not really unique to socialism/communism and was more akin to "my greatest weakness is that I care too much"-type responses during job interviews. 

Now, some of (certainly not all of) the typical markers of what I understand as socialist/communist societies:

* An end to poverty.
* Healthcare, housing, food, childcare, and all basic needs (plus some extra care for luxury activities/items) taken care of by the government/society. 
* Workers/the people controlling the wealth/means of production and having a fair, just, and proportional say in societal matters. 
* (More specifically for communism) an elimination of class, money, and the state. 
* All of the "shit jobs" (unless people want to do them?) and much of the work generally being taken over by automation (since automation will be used to better society rather than turn a profit), which will allow for more free time. 
* A society that's fully egalitarian/feminist/progressive/environmentally friendly. 
* A general end to exploitation, corruption, wealth inequality, inequality generally, etc. 

Back to my skepticism: those things add up to a pretty hard pill for me to swallow, because they sound, well, wonderful... utopian, actually. It sounds pretty much perfect. Basically the only "downside" is the inability for any specific individual to accrue the kinds of vast wealth (at the expense of others) that'd lead to, say, owning half a dozen mansions and spending their free time traipsing around the world on private yachts packed to the gills with professional models, pure Colombian cocaine, and stacks of $100 bills that they can burn for fun... although even where that's concerned, I've had communists/socialists tell me that these trappings of extreme wealth will be divided up fairly among the people so that I could, say, book a vacation a few times a year where I get to stay in one of those mansions or cruise around on the yacht since all these things would exist for the public good post-capitalism. 

Again, kind of a hard sell *specifically* because it sounds so lovely. It goes against my instincts to believe that something like that could even be possible because, like I said, anytime someone is trying to pitch me a MLM scheme that's all pros and no cons, it's always a scam, the person pitching it is a moron, or both. Or that other adage that when it comes to "cost, quality, and speed;" you can only pick two: you can't ever have it all, and from where I'm sitting the communist/socialist pitch seems like it's saying that not only will **I** have it all, but we'll **all** have it all. I'd be markedly less skeptical if socialists/communists instead proposed individual facets of socialism/communism. Universal healthcare, for example, is something I could get behind: it's been done and I'm sure it could be done here. But pitching everything as a package that has no downside (e.g. I'd also be less skeptical if the pitch was more like "yeah we'll take care of your housing, but your family of five will be living in a studio apartment" or "yeah we'll take care of your food, but it's just raw turnips 95% of the time" or "yeah we'll end government corruption, but the bureaucratic checks and balances will render the government horribly impotent") makes me skeptical of it. 

I'm a little mixed on how and why I "want" this view changed. On one hand my capitalist democracy has been pretty good to me, I think it can be good for everyone who plays their cards rights, and I'm a fan of the old adage "capitalism/democracy is the worst form of economic system/government... except for all the others." On the other hand, as I've stated, socialism/communism does sound pretty peachy, and it'd be nice to know, or perhaps at least believe, that such a thing is actually possible and practical. 

Also note that this utopian skepticism isn't the **only** reason I'm weary of communism/socialism (there are whole books and webpages dedicated to the "which system kills more people" line of inquiry, for example), but it's probably my main one and is the focus of this CMV post. 

One thing I can think of in advance that won't change my view is "Well X communist/socialist thinker/activist specifically rejects the notion that communism/socialism would be a utopia." First, even when it comes to the "founders" of the ideologies, they don't always agree with one another and not every modern socialist/communist agrees with them. Second, and more importantly, they can say it's not a utopia all they like, but, if I'm remembering the saying correctly: "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's probably a utopia." 

Y'all know what to do. Cheers.
gpt
As a person who thinks communism is BS, this is not a good reason to discount the possibility that it could be fine, the elevator pitch for every system of governement is utopian. the elevator pitch for democracy is that everyone votes for what they want and we get the best possible solution to the issue at hand, and for capitalism it's that two people get what they want by exchanging things they don't want. Naturally neither systems deliver exactly these things, but they aren't giant dumpster fires either.