As a followup, this is a co-worker's machine.  He has the latest 2.03 drivers.
It only happens using the 1024x768x256 driver.  Sometimes it takes a minute
or so for the cursor to wig out, but it eventually does in this mode.  I
susect something is stepping on memory the video card wants.  I excluded
a000-c7ff in the EMM386 line and in system.ini  The problem persisted.
Perhaps it is something specific to the Gateway machine or it's components.
It is a 66mhz DX/2 Eisa bus with an Ultrastore (24xx?) controller.  Ah well,
I was hoping this was some kind of 'known problem' or somebody had seen it
before.  Perhaps a call to Gateway is in order, but I do find folks here
usually are far more in the know.


I agree and disagree.  John is saying that the batters efforts will result
in 4 more wins then losses.  While you are probably correct that 400%
does not mean 4 more wins then losses, it means something.  I would
rather have a player who increased my teams chances of winning by 1% in
each of 400 PAs then I would a player who increased my chances of winning
by .5% in each of 400 PAs.  Thus, there appears to me to be an obvious
positive association between John's statistic and winning games.  Thus,
before you disregard this stat, it appears to me that further study must
go into what sort of relationship there is.

The only problem here is an insistance that these number mean exactly
how many wins the team has.  First, we are using averages over many
seasons and applying them to one game.  Second, remember some players
performance take away from the chance of you winning.  That is a
player who gets an out gets a "negative probability" in most cases.
Thus, I'm not sure in any given game when you add up all the numbers
for a team who won that they will add up to 1 in that game.  Sometimes,
they will add up to more then one sometime, less than one.  Also,
the pitchers' bad performances (giving up 6 runs) may have given
them a large negative percentage for that game.  Also, any batter that
pulled an 0-4 night would give large negatives.

No, but really only because you have a smaller sample size.  I would
think however, that the number of runs you score in the first inning
would be just as good as a prediction as how many runs you score
in the last inning.  And, realize something else a closer usually
comes in in a close situation, not a blow out.  It is hard to argue
that any runs that a closer gives up in a game have equal importance
to those given up in the first inning.  Look, a closer giving up runs
often means a team will lose many games.  On, the other hand a starter
who gives up runs often still leaves his team a chance to win.  The
offence has many more outs to do something about.  But, I am not
saying all late inning situations are equally important either.  If
I am down 8 runs in the ninth, it really does not matter how many
runs my pitcher gives up in the ninth.

No, but why would you assume that the teams probability of winning would
be 0 before the possesion in which the free throws were made.  Look,
if you are down 1 point with 5 seconds left, there is a fairly high
probability that you will win the game if you are in possesion of the
ball.  And, do not forget that somebody elses missed shots, turnovers,
fouls, bad defense, etc. caused a "negative chance" that the team
would win.

From reading all of the discussion on this statistic, I feel that those
who critisize it to a certain extent are doing so out of an agenda.
At first look this statistic valadates clutchness.  But, it really
does not.  Cluthness revolves around the idea that certain players
in crucial situation elevate their performance and others performance
goes down.  I've never seen convincing proof that this really happens.
So, if you assume there is no clutchness, then that means that except
for a lot of noice, this statistic has a positive association to
player performance.  There is a way to get rid of the noice if you
do not believe in clutchness.  Certainly, we could find out what
the average value of a home run is for example.  We may find for
instance, that a home run increases your chance of winning by 15%
on average while a strikeout decreases your chance of winning by 5%.
I bet if this were done we would find that this statistic was just
as good as other statistics we have for predicting wins and losses.

How do we evaluate relief pitchers?  Say John and Sam have the
exact same pitching statistics (runs, earned runs, K's, BB's,
etc.)  Both had exceptional numbers.  John, however only pitched
in closer situations, while Sam was a Mop up man.  Who was more
valuble to their team?  Probably John.  Who was the better
pitcher?  They were probably about the same.


I need some help.  We are upgrading our animation/video editing stand. We
are looking into the different type of setups for A/B roll and a cuts only
station.  We would like this to be controlled by a computer ( brand doesnt matter but maybe MAC, or AMIGA).  Low end to high end system setups would be very
helpful. If you have a system or use a system that might be of use, could you
mail me your system requirements, what it is used for, and all the hardware and
software that will be necessary to set the system up.  If you need more
info, you  can mail me at   eylerken@u.washington.edu

thanks in advance.


So I should be very comfortable that 500,000,000 people want to convert me to
Islam. Or, to convert me to ANYTHING.

There are many types of violence, physical murder is only one.

'Trying' to convert is an insult. It's like trying to tell me that me and/or
my God/my lack of God are just crap, that I need a new, 'converted' one.

This does not apply for muslims only, of course. Same for jews and for some
friendly, nicely dressed neighbours who show on sunday with empty speaches
and cheap booklets about some church ....

And when the objective is (I think, however that you are wrong) to convert
everybody, it's just a matter of time when violence will occur.

Aren't we able to learn anything from thouthands of years of 'conversion related
violence' ?

Why not let 'the other, more inferiour' people live as they wish and take care
your business?. You do assume that they are inferiour (or their beliefs are)
as long as you want to change their thinking.


bm967@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Kantrowitz) writes ...

Sure.  Buy a switch box and a multisync monitor.  I have just that
arrangement on my desk and it works fine.


I've been reading, with much confusion, about whether or not to use
ATManager. Lately, all the packages I've been buying have all
included ATManager as a "bonus"
I do some desktop publishing using PageMaker and Coreldraw.
Coreldraw comes with a nifty laser disk that contains over 200 diff
types. Add that to the TTfonts that come with win31 and you have a
decent amount of fonts. I print my creations out on an HP4
Postcript, at 600 dpi resolution with the "Resolution Enhancement
Technology" and ..  well ... I get some darn good copies.
So good that there isn't any diff whether or not ATManager is turned
on or not. Is it worth it to run ATM at all? Especially with these
better printer technologies ... and TT?


Thanks Ron and Peter for some very nice maps.

I have an advice though.  You wrote that the maps were reduced to 256
colors.  As far ad I understand JPEG pictures gets much better (and
the compressed files smaller) if you use the original 3 color 24 bit
data when converting to JPEG.

Thanks again,


How is it ever going to be an Off- the Shelf Technology if someone doesn't
do it?  Maybe we should do this as part of the SSF design goals. ;-)

Gee fred.  After your bitter defense of 20 KHz power as a Basic technology
for SSF, Id think you would support a minor research program like this.

And does anyone who knows more Particle physics then me,  know if the IPNS
could Prove this technology?


I somehow started to doubt technical competence of the
people who designed the system.  Why on the Earth split the
80-bit key in 40-bit parts to keep them in escrow separately
(having 40 bit and large volumes of data voice links produce
it should be relatively easy to break it) when they simply
could keep 80-bit sequences in N (N>=2) independent places
and then XOR all the partial keys to get the actual key (N-1
sequences should obviously be selected randomly and Nth is the
actual key XOR-ed with the random sequences).

(Or is it a conspiracy? 1/2 :-)


I seldom see any posts in this group. Is anyone out there in Christendom
listening? If so, why don't we get some dialog going here?

Here's a topic to get things started. My daughter's Christian school sends
home a weekly update on school related topics. This week they sent
something *very* interesting. It was an article written by the leader of a
national (US) Christian school organization about a trip he recently made
to Jerusalem. While there, he was introduced to one of the rabbis who is
working on a project to rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem. The article
included photos of the many furnishings that have already been made in
preparation for furnishing the rebuilt temple according to the
specifications given in the Bible.

What was even more striking is the fact that the plans for the temple are
complete and the group is only awaiting permission from the Israeli
government before beginning the building. The other startling fact is the
very recent archeological discovery that the original site of the temple is
unoccupied and available for building. Previously it has been thought that
the original site was underneath what is now a mosque, making rebuilding
impossible without sparking a holy war.

Now it appears that nothing stands in the way of rebuilding and resuming
sacrifices, as the Scriptures indicate will happen in the last days.
Although the Israeli government will give the permission to start, I think
it is the hand of God holding the project until He is ready to let it
happen. Brothers and sisters, the time is at hand. Our redemption is
drawing near. Look up!


Does that mean that they're gonna bring back the Biscayne and Bel Air?


     Really?  What if it said "lentil eating" or "legume eating",
     what then?
     And I suppose "Accept 10" is anti-Octal bigotry?
     Geez, how PC can you get!?

     Uncle Fester


The pricing of parts reminds me of something a chemist once said to me:

"A gram of this dye costs a dollar.
It comes out of a liter jar which also costs a dollar.
And if you want a whole barrel of it, that also costs a dollar."

I.e., they charge you almost exclusively for packaging it and delivering
it to you -- the chemical itself (in that particular case) was a byproduct
that cost almost nothing intrinsically.


sorta.

'88 Honda Hawk

YMMV.


Hey,

        I have a Color Watchman by SONY for sale. It is 6"x3"x1" in total
and the screen is 2.75" diagonal, over 2" wide, over 1.5" tall. I got it 2
years ago for $320, so I'm asking $160 obo.

        * VHF and UHF switch for channels 2 through 69.
        * slot for Audio/Video in from VCR (appropriate cord provided)
        * slot for phones
        * slot for A/C adaptor (A/C adaptor also provided)
        * slot for external Antenna (internal antenna provided)
        * On/Off switch
        * Manual Tuning, Volume, Brightness and Hue
        * Battery run as well (4 AA batteries provided)

It's been used very little. Looks like new. Email if interested.


;Revving the throttle requires either [dis]engaging the clutch,
;or accelerating.

Not if it's a Harley.


    The immunization program is just a "useful first step". Among other
    things, the money will go to pay for creating and maintaning a
    a computerized "innoculation" database on all U.S. children.
    (code-named Big Mother... Just kidding, the name will be Children
    Defense Database, or something like that.)

    Once the money is spent and little or no tangible results achieved,
    the goverment will have to start knocking down doors, in some
    neigborhoods, and bribe parents in others (probably the ones that
    are paying kids for attending the school - what a fantastic idea!)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.


Thats the file...


Does anyone have enough experience to report whether disk data
compression has any effect on the optimal disk sector interleave?
Offhand, I expect that the time required to decompress disk data
would increase the optimum disk sector interleave.
                                              - Alan Hinds


We have a Gateway 486DX50 with a SMC Elite16 Series Ethercard Plus.

When we use NCSA FTP to send from the Gateway with hash turned on, we see
4 hash marks immediately.  Then the computer  r e a l l y  drags.  If we turn
off the internal cache of the 486, the speed is better, but doesn't match
the speed when we receive to the Gateway.

It doesn't matter if we send from the Gateway or get to it: 4 hash marks and
then extreme slowness if the cache is not disabled.

Does anyone know any more about this?  Is there a fix?

The Gateway was purchased in June, 1992.

Please respond directly.  You wouldn't believe how slow the news is on this
system.


Archive-name: atheism/faq
Alt-atheism-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 5 April 1993
Version: 1.1

                    Alt.Atheism Frequently-Asked Questions

This file contains responses to articles which occur repeatedly in
alt.atheism.  Points covered here are ones which are not covered in the
"Introduction to Atheism"; you are advised to read that article as well
before posting.

These answers are not intended to be exhaustive or definitive. The purpose of
the periodic FAQ postings is not to stifle debate, but to raise its level. If
you have something to say concerning one of these questions and which isn't
covered by the answer given, please feel free to make your point.

Overview of contents:

   "What is the purpose of this newsgroup?"
   "Hitler was an atheist!"
   "The Bible proves it"
   "Pascal's Wager"
   "What is Occam's Razor?"
   "Why it's good to believe in Jesus"
   "Why I know that God exists"
   "Einstein and "God does not play dice""
   "Everyone worships something"
   "Why there must be a causeless cause"
   "The universe is so complex it must have been designed"
   "Independent evidence that the Bible is true"
   "Godel's Incompleteness Theorem"
   "George Bush on atheism and patriotism"
   "I know where hell is!"
   "Biblical contradictions wanted"
   "The USA is a Christian nation"
   "The USA is not a Christian nation"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: What is the purpose of this newsgroup?

Typical posting:

Why have a newsgroup about atheism?  Why do atheists organize in groups?
What is there to discuss?

Response:

Many things are discussed here, including:

* Whether it is reasonable to feign theism in order to avoid upsetting one's
  family
* Prayer in schools
* Discrimination against atheists
* Sunday trading laws
* The Satanic Child Abuse myth
* Whether one should be an overt atheist or 'stay in the closet'
* How religious societies prey (sic) on new college students
* How to get rid of unwanted proselytizers
* Whether religion is a danger to society and/or the individual
* Why people become atheists

Of course, inevitably alt.atheism tends to attract evangelical Christians
looking for someone to convert.  Most readers of the newsgroup don't
want to be preached to, although a few seem to derive perverse pleasure
from tearing apart particularly ill-considered or uninformed postings.

------------------------------

Subject: Hitler was an atheist!

Typical posting:

Hitler was an atheist, and look at what he did!

Response:

Adolf Hitler was emphatically not an atheist.  As he said himself:

   The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in
   his own denomination, of making _people_stop_just_talking_
   superficially_of_God's_will,_and_actually_fulfill_God's_will,_and_
   not_let_God's_word_be_desecrated._[orig. ital.]

   For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their
   abilities.  Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the
   Lord's creation, the divine will.  Therefore, let every man be
   active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every
   man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who
   in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his
   religious community and tries to butt into the other.

   [...]

   Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will
   of the Almighty Creator: _by_defending_myself_against_the_Jew,_I_am_
   fighting_for_the_work_of_the_Lord._[orig. ital.]

          -- Adolf Hitler, from "Mein Kampf", trans. Ralph Mannheim.

Of course, someone bad believing something does not make that belief
wrong.  It's also entirely possible that Hitler was lying when he claimed
to believe in God.  We certainly can't conclude that he's an atheist,
though.

------------------------------

Subject: The Bible proves it

Typical posting:

In the Bible it says that...

Response:

Most of the readers of alt.atheism feel that the Bible is of questionable
accuracy, as it was written thousands of years ago by many authors who were
recording oral tradition that existed many years before.  Thus, any claimed
'truth' in it is of questionable legitimacy.  This isn't to say that The
Bible has no truth in it; simply that any truth must be examined before being
accepted.

Many of the readers of this group also feel that because any passage is
subject to "interpretation", any claim that a passage 'means' one thing and
one thing only is not legitimate.

Note that this feeling tends to extend to other books.

It is also remarkable to many atheists that theists tend to ignore other
equally plausible religious books in favour of those of their own religion.

------------------------------

Subject: Pascal's Wager

Typical posting:

If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing --
but if you don't believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you will go to
hell. Therefore it is foolish to be an atheist.

Response:

This argument is known as Pascal's Wager.  It has several flaws.

Firstly, it does not indicate which religion to follow.  Indeed, there are
many mutually exclusive and contradictory religions out there.  This is often
described as the "avoiding the wrong hell" problem.  If a person is a
follower of religion X, he may end up in religion Y's version of hell.

Secondly, the statement that "If you believe in God and turn out to be
incorrect, you have lost nothing" is not true.  Suppose you're believing in
the wrong God -- the true God might punish you for your foolishness.
Consider also the deaths that have resulted from people rejecting medicine in
favour of prayer.

Another flaw in the argument is that it is based on the assumption that
the two possibilities are equally likely -- or at least, that they are of
comparable likelihood.  If, in fact, the possibility of there being a God
is close to zero, the argument becomes much less persuasive.  So sadly the
argument is only likely to convince those who believe already.

Also, many feel that for intellectually honest people, belief is based on
evidence, with some amount of intuition.  It is not a matter of will or
cost-benefit analysis.

Formally speaking, the argument consists of four statements:

  1. One does not know whether God exists.
  2. Not believing in God is bad for one's eternal soul if God does
     exist.
  3. Believing in God is of no consequence if God does not exist.
  4. Therefore it is in one's interest to believe in God.

There are two approaches to the argument.  The first is to view 1 as an
assumption, and 2 as a consequence of it.  One problem with this approach, in
the abstract, is that it creates information from no information.  This is
considered invalid in information theory.  Statement 1 indicates one has no
information about God -- but statement 2 indicates that beneficial information
can be gained from the absolute lack of information about God.  This violates
information entropy -- information has been extracted from no information, at
no "cost".

The alternative approach is to claim that 1 and 2 are both assumptions.  The
problem with this is that 2 is then basically an assumption which states the
Christian position, and only a Christian will agree with that assumption. The
argument thus collapses to "If you are a Christian, it is in your interests
to believe in God" -- a rather vacuous tautology, and not the way Pascal
intended the argument to be viewed.

The biggest reason why Pascal's wager is a failure is that if God is
omniscient he will certainly know who really believes and who believes as
a wager.  He will spurn the latter... assuming he actually cares at all
whether people believe in him.

------------------------------

Subject: What is Occam's Razor?

Typical posting:

People keep talking about Occam's Razor.  What is it?

Response:

William of Occam formulated a principle which has become known as Occam's
Razor.  In its original form, it said "Do not multiply entities
unnecessarily."  That is, if you can explain something without supposing
the existence of some entity, then do so.

Nowadays when people refer to Occam's Razor, they generally express it
more generally, for example as "Take the simplest solution".

The relevance to atheism is that we can look at two possible explanations
for what we see around us:

1. There is an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there, which
came into being as a result of natural processes.

2. There is an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there, and
there is also a God who created the universe.  Clearly this God must be
of non-zero complexity.

Given that both explanations fit the facts, Occam's Razor might suggest
that we should take the simpler of the two -- solution number one.
Unfortunately, some argue that there is a third even more simple solution:

3. There isn't an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there.
We just imagine that there is.

This third option leads us logically towards solipsism, which many people
find unacceptable.

------------------------------

Subject: Why it's good to believe in Jesus

Typical posting:

I want to tell people about the virtues and benefits of my religion.

Response:

Preaching is not appreciated.

Feel free to talk about your religion, but please do not write postings that
are on a "conversion" theme.  Such postings do not belong on alt.atheism and
will be rejected from alt.atheism.moderated (try the newsgroup
talk.religion.misc).

You would doubtless not welcome postings from atheists to your favourite
newsgroup in an attempt to convert you; please do unto others as you would
have them do unto you!

Often theists make their basic claims about God in the form of lengthy
analogies or parables.  Be aware that atheists have heard of God and know the
basic claims about him; if the sole purpose of your parable is to tell
atheists that God exists and brings salvation, you may as well not post it,
since it tells us nothing we have not been told before.

------------------------------

Subject: Why I know that God exists

Typical posting:

I *know* from personal experience and prayer that God exists.

Response:

Just as many theists have personal evidence that the being they worship
exists, so many atheists have personal evidence that such beings do not
exist.  That evidence varies from person to person.

Furthermore, without wishing to dismiss your evidence out of hand, many
people have claimed all kinds of unlikely things -- that they have been
abducted by UFOs, visited by the ghost of Elvis, and so on.

------------------------------

Subject: Einstein and "God does not play dice"

Typical posting:

Albert Einstein believed in God.  Do you think you're cleverer than him?

Response:

Einstein did once comment that "God does not play dice [with the universe]".
This quotation is commonly mentioned to show that Einstein believed in the
Christian God.  Used this way, it is out of context; it refers to Einstein's
refusal to accept the uncertainties indicated by quantum theory. Furthermore,
Einstein's religious background was Jewish rather than Christian.

A better quotation showing what Einstein thought about God is the following:
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of
what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of
human beings."

Einstein was unable to accept Quantum Theory because of his belief in an
objective, orderly reality; a reality which would not be subject to random
events and which would not be dependent upon the observer.  He believed that
QM was incomplete, and that a better theory would have no need for
statistical interpretations.  So far no such better theory has been found,
and much evidence suggests that it never will be.

A longer quote from Einstein appears in "Science, Philosophy, and Religion, A
Symposium", published by the Conference on Science, Philosophy and Religion
in Their Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York, 1941.  In

  "The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events
   the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side
   of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature.  For him
   neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an
   independent cause of natural events.  To be sure, the doctrine of a
   personal God interfering with natural events could never be
   *refuted* [italics his], in the real sense, by science, for this
   doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific
   knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.

   But I am convinced that such behavior on the part of representatives
   of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal.  For a doctrine
   which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark,
   will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm
   to human progress.  In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers
   of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal
   God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past
   placed such vast power in the hands of priests.  In their labors they
   will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable
   of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity
   itself.  This is, to be sure, a more difficult but an incomparably
   more worthy task..."

  "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religous convictions,
   a lie which is being systematically repeated.  I do not believe in a
   personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.
   If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the
   unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our
   science can reveal it."

The latter quote is from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side", edited by Helen
Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press.
Also from the same book:

  "I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics
   to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind
   it."

Of course, the fact that Einstein chose not to believe in Christianity does
not in itself imply that Christianity is false.

------------------------------

Subject: Everyone worships something

Typical posting:

Everyone worships something, whether it's money, power or God.

Response:

If that is true, everyone is a polytheist.  Theists care just as much about
those things that atheists care about.  If the atheists' reactions to (for
example) their families amount to worship then so do the theists'.

------------------------------

Subject: Why there must be a causeless cause

Typical posting:

Sets of integers that have a lower bound each have a smallest member, so
chains of causes must all have a first element, a causeless cause.

Response:

The set of real numbers greater than zero has a definite lower bound, but has
no smallest member.

Further, even if it is true that there must be a causeless cause, that does
not imply that that cause must be a conscious supernatural entity, and
especially not that any such entity must match the description favoured by
any particular religion.

------------------------------

Subject: The universe is so complex it must have been designed

Typical posting:

The presence of design in the universe proves there is a God.  Surely you
don't think all this appeared here just by chance?

Response:

This is known as the Argument From Design.

It is a matter of dispute whether there is any element of design in the
universe. Those who believe that the complexity and diversity of living
creatures on the earth is evidence of a creator are best advised to read the
newsgroup talk.origins for a while.

There is insufficient space to summarize both sides of that debate here.
However, the conclusion is that there is no scientific evidence in favour of
so-called Scientific Creationism. Furthermore, there is much evidence,
observation and theory that can explain many of the complexities of the
universe and life on earth.

The origin of the Argument by Design is a feeling that the existence of
something as incredibly intricate as, say, a human is so improbable that
surely it can't have come about by chance; that surely there must be some
external intelligence directing things so that humans come from the chaos
deliberately.

But if human intelligence is so improbable, surely the existence of a mind
capable of fashioning an entire universe complete with conscious beings must
be immeasurably more unlikely?  The approach used to argue in favour of the
existence of a creator can be turned around and applied to the Creationist
position.

This leads us to the familiar theme of "If a creator created the universe,
what created the creator?", but with the addition of spiralling
improbability.  The only way out is to declare that the creator was not
created and just "is" (or "was").

From here we might as well ask what is wrong with saying that the universe
just "is" without introducing a creator?  Indeed Stephen Hawking, in his book
"A Brief History of Time", explains his theory that the universe is closed
and finite in extent, with no beginning or end.

The Argument From Design is often stated by analogy, in the so-called
Watchmaker Argument.  One is asked to imagine that one has found a watch on
the beach.  Does one assume that it was created by a watchmaker, or that it
evolved naturally?  Of course one assumes a watchmaker.  Yet like the
watch, the universe is intricate and complex; so, the argument goes, the
universe too must have a creator.

The Watchmaker analogy suffers from three particular flaws, over and above
those common to all Arguments By Design.  Firstly, a watchmaker creates
watches from pre-existing materials, whereas God is claimed to have
created the universe from nothing.  These two sorts of creation are
clearly fundamentally different, and the analogy is therefore rather weak.

Secondly, a watchmaker makes watches, but there are many other things in
the world.  If we walked further along the beach and found a nuclear
reactor, we wouldn't assume it was created by the watchmaker.  The argument
would therefore suggest a multitude of creators, each responsible for a
different part of creation.

Finally, in the first part of the watchmaker argument we conclude that
the watch is not part of nature because it is ordered, and therefore
stands out from the randomness of nature.  Yet in the second part of the
argument, we start from the position that the universe is obviously not
random, but shows elements of order.  The Watchmaker argument is thus
internally inconsistent.

------------------------------

Subject: Independent evidence that the Bible is true

Typical posting:

The events of the New Testament are confirmed by independent documentary
evidence.  For example...

Response:

The writings of Josephus are often mentioned as independent documentary
evidence.

Early versions of Josephus's work are thought not to have mentioned Jesus or
James; the extant version discusses John in a non-Christian context.  Many
scholars believe that the original mentioned Jesus and James in passing, but
that this was expanded by Christian copyists.  Several "reconstructions" of
the original text have been published to this effect.

Much information appears in the Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius (about 320
C.E.).  It is worthless as historical material because of the deliberate
falsification of the wily Eusebius who is generally acknowledged as 'the
first thoroughly dishonest historian of antiquity.' It is Eusebius who is
generally given the title of authorship for this material.

Aside from the New Testament, the biographical information about Jesus is
more well-documented.  For further information, please consult the Frequently
Asked Questions file for the newsgroup soc.religion.christian.

------------------------------

Subject: Godel's Incompleteness Theorem

Typical posting:

Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates that it is impossible for the
Bible to be both true and complete.

Response:

Godel's First Incompleteness Theorem says that in any consistent formal
system which is sufficiently expressive that it can model ordinary
arithmetic, one can formulate expressions which can never be proven to be
valid or invalid ('true' or 'false') within that formal system.  (Technically
speaking, the system must also be recursive; that is, there must be a decision
procedure for determining whether a given string is an axiom within the formal
system.)

Essentially, all such systems can formulate what is known as a "Liar
Paradox."  The classic Liar Paradox sentence in ordinary English is "This
sentence is false."  Note that if a proposition is undecidable, the formal
system cannot even deduce that it is undecidable.

The logic used in theological discussions is rarely well defined, so claims
that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates that it is impossible to
prove or disprove) the existence of God are worthless in isolation.

One can trivially define a formal system in which it is possible to prove the
existence of God, simply by having the existence of God stated as an axiom.
This is unlikely to be viewed by atheists as a convincing proof, however.

It may be possible to succeed in producing a formal system built on axioms
that both atheists and theists agree with.  It may then be possible to show
that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem holds for that system.  However, that
would still not demonstrate that it is impossible to prove that God exists
within the system.  Furthermore, it certainly wouldn't tell us anything about
whether it is possible to prove the existence of God generally.

Note also that all of these hypothetical formal systems tell us nothing about
the actual existence of God; the formal systems are just abstractions.

Another frequent claim is that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates
that a religious text (the Bible, the Book of Mormon or whatever) cannot be
both consistent and universally applicable. Religious texts are not formal
systems, so such claims are nonsense.

------------------------------

Subject: George Bush on atheism and patriotism

Typical posting:

Did George Bush really say that atheists should not be considered citizens?

Response:

The following exchange took place at the Chicago airport between Robert I.
Sherman of American Atheist Press and George Bush, on August 27 1988. Sherman
is a fully accredited reporter, and was present by invitation as a member of
the press corps.  The Republican presidential nominee was there to announce
federal disaster relief for Illinois.  The discussion turned to the
presidential primary:

 RS: "What will you do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?"

 GB: "I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community.  Faith in
      God is important to me."

 RS: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of
      Americans who are atheists?"

 GB: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens,
      nor should they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under
      God."

 RS: "Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation
      of state and church?"

 GB: "Yes, I support the separation of church and state.  I'm just not
      very high on atheists."

UPI reported on May 8, 1989, that various atheist organizations were
still angry over the remarks.

The exchange appeared in the Boulder Daily Camera on Monday February 27,
1989.  It can also be found in "Free Enquiry" magazine, Fall 1988 issue,
Volume 8, Number 4, page 16.

On October 29, 1988, Mr. Sherman had a confrontation with Ed Murnane,
cochairman of the Bush-Quayle '88 Illinois campaign.  This concerned a
lawsuit Mr. Sherman had filed to stop the Community Consolidated School
District 21 (Chicago, Illinois) from forcing his first-grade Atheist son to
pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States as "one nation under God"
(Bush's phrase).  The following conversation took place:

 RS: "American Atheists filed the Pledge of Allegiance lawsuit yesterday.
      Does the Bush campaign have an official response to this filing?"

 EM: "It's bullshit."

 RS: "What is bullshit?"

 EM: "Everything that American Atheists does, Rob, is bullshit."

 RS: "Thank you for telling me what the official position of the Bush
      campaign is on this issue."

 EM: "You're welcome."

After Bush's election, American Atheists wrote to Bush asking him to retract
his statement.  On February 21st 1989, C. Boyden Gray, Counsel to the
President, replied on White House stationery that Bush substantively stood by

  "As you are aware, the President is a religious man who neither supports
   atheism nor believes that atheism should be unnecessarily encouraged or
   supported by the government."

For further information, contact American Atheist Veterans at the American
Atheist Press's Cameron Road address.

------------------------------

Subject: I know where hell is!

Typical posting:

I know where Hell is!  Hell is in Norway!

Response:

There are several towns called "Hell" in various countries around the
world, including Norway and the USA.  Whilst this information is mildly
amusing the first time one hears it, readers of alt.atheism are now
getting pretty fed up with hearing it every week.

------------------------------

Subject: Biblical contradictions wanted

Typical posting:

Does anyone have a list of Biblical contradictions?

Response:

American Atheist Press publish an atheist's handbook detailing Biblical
contradictions. See the accompanying posting on Atheist Resources for
details.

There is a file containing some Biblical contradictions available from the
archive-server@mantis.co.uk. See the contacts file for more information.

------------------------------

Subject: The USA is a Christian nation

Typical posting:

Because of the religious beliefs of the founding fathers, shouldn't the
United States be considered a Christian nation?

Response:

Based upon the writings of several important founding fathers, it is clear
that they never intended the US to be a Christian nation.  Here are some
quotes; there are many more.

  "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society?
   In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the
   ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen
   upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been
   the guardians of the liberties of the people.  Rulers who wish to subvert
   the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient
   auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it,
   needs them not."
      - James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

  "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of
   the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross.
   Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
      - John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

  "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people
   maintaining a free civil government.  This marks the lowest grade of
   ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will
   always avail themselves for their own purpose."

      - Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

  "I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or
   requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely
   above it."

      - Benjamin Franklin, from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion",
        Nov. 20, 1728

------------------------------

Subject: The USA is not a Christian nation

Typical posting:

Is it true that George Washington said that the United States is not in any
sense founded upon the Christian religion?

Response:

No.  The quotation often given is in fact from Article XI of the 1797 Treaty
of Tripoli (8 Stat 154, Treaty Series 358):

   Article 11

   As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense
   founded on the Christian Religion, -- as it has in itself no character of
   enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, -- and as
   the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility
   against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no
   pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption
   of the harmony existing between the two countries.

The text may be found in the Congressional Record or in treaty collections
such as Charles Bevans' "Treaties and Other International Agreements of the
United States of America 1776-1949", vol. 11 (pp. 1070-1080).

The English text of the Treaty of Tripoli was approved by the U.S. Senate on
June 7, 1797 and ratified by President John Adams on June 10, 1797.  It was
recently discovered that the Arabic version of the treaty not only lacks the
quotation, it lacks Article XI altogether.

The person who translated the Arabic to English was Joel Barlow, Consul
General at Algiers, a close friend of Thomas Paine -- and an opponent of
Christianity.  It is possible that Barlow made up Article XI, but since there
is no Arabic version of that article to be found, it's hard to say.

In 1806 a new Treaty of Tripoli was ratified which no longer contained the
quotation.


<
<>If the Clinton Clipper is so very good, [...]
<
<Please note that Bill Clinton probably has little if anything to do
<with the design, implementation or reasoning behind this chip or behind
<any "moves" being made using this chip as a pawn.

Uh, I notice he has not either asked for or allowed public input, and he damn
sure has not stopped it...

<Remember, when you elect a president of the united states, it's not
<the case that all the Republicans, etc. in the NSA and FBI and CIA
<immediately pack their bags and get replaced by a team of fresh young
<Democrats.  Most of the government -- say, 96% -- is appointed or
<hired rather than elected.  Since this Clipper device has been in
<production for over six months, it probably has little or no
<foundation in the currently elected Democratic Executive body.

Again, if it was something Clinton didn't like, how come he did not
stop it, or get PUBLIC input before implimenting the DECISION?  He
sure has asserted his authority on other things he did not agree with
from the Bush administrationk, I notice.   He is the president, therefore
he is RESPONSIBLE for the actions of the Execuitive Branch.  I have
not the slightest bit of doubt you would be holding Bush or Reagan
to that standard had they been in office when this thing was cast into
stone...

<>BTW - those who suggest that this is just an attack on Clinton, believe
<>this:  I would be going ballistic reagardless WHO seriously proposed
<>this thing.  It is just another step in a gradual erosion of our rights
<>under the Constitution or Bill of Rights.  The last couple of decades
<>have been a non-stop series of end-runs around the protections of the
<>Constitution.  It has to stop.  Now is as good a time as any, if it
<>isn't too late allready.
<
<Could be.  However, the sky hasn't fallen yet, Chicken Little.

Thanks for the name-calling.  That really makes your position higly
credible.  Lenin had a term for folks with your outlook.  Do you REALLY
have THAT MUCH faith in the trustworthiness and honesty of the government
that is primarily concerned with people control?   I suspect you will
be in for an unpleasant surprise.  I would just as soon see this nipped
in the bud while/if it still can be done, instead of waiting for yet
more abridgements of our Bill of Rights, thank you...


##It should be noted that NAMBLA has not been present in the
##other 600 or so gay parades in the nation. While I view this
##as an isolated event, I am very troubled by its reccurence.

Thank you for correcting the error in my post to the net.
This information came from a newspaper article that was
fuzzy in my mind.  I can only wonder if there have been
similar outcries about NAMBLA's presence in the parades
of New York and Boston.

Yours in Liberation from Molestation,

Mark

North American Micro-Biological Laboratories Association
For a packet containing a sample bulletin, publications list
and membership information send $1.00 postage to...

Note:  Sometimes I do the darndest things while trying to
squelch my desire to flame the living daylights out of
somebody for their beliefs and/or associations, especially
if they are so genial...  Phil, take it away!  :-)


Choose any or all of the following as an answer to the above:


Oh, darn.
Okay, okay, let's stop slamming Ipser, and get on with making fun of other
people.


[deleted]

Which crap, the ridiculous assertions that Uzis are mowing down cops
right and left? The assertions that dialing 911 should be the proper
and only option available to the law-abiding citizens?

A factoid:

56 cops were killed in the whole country last year. This is down from
around 100 in the early '80s. Wow, a real explosion in cop killings
there eh?  :-)


Be sure to say "chronic" dizziness, not just dizziness.  Most
patients with acute or subacute dizziness will get better.
The vertiginous spells of Meniere's will also eventually go
away, however, the patient is left with a deaf ear.

This may have helped you, but I'm not sure it is good general
advice.  The odds that you are going to find some miracle with
your own research that is secret or hidden from general knowledge
for this or any other disease are slim.  When good answers to these
problems are found, it is usually in all the newspapers.  Until
then, spending a great deal of time and energy on the medical
problem may divert that energy from more productive things
in life.  A limited amount should be spent to assure yourself
that your doctor gave you the correct story, but after it becomes
clear that you are dealing with a problem for which medicine
has no good solution, perhaps the best strategy is to join
the support group and keep abreast of new findings but not to
make a career out of it.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon."


TRH> I hope you're not going to flame him.  Please give him the same coutesy you'
TRH> ve given me.

But you have been courteous and therefore received courtesy in return.  This
person instead has posted one of the worst arguments I have ever seen
made from the pro-Christian people.  I've known several Jesuits who would
laugh in his face if he presented such an argument to them.

Let's ignore the fact that it's not a true trilemma for the moment (nice
word Maddi, original or is it a real word?) and concentrate on the
liar, lunatic part.

The argument claims that no one would follow a liar, let alone thousands
of people.  Look at L. Ron Hubbard.  Now, he was probably not all there,
but I think he was mostly a liar and a con-artist.  But look at how many
thousands of people follow Dianetics and Scientology.  I think the
Baker's and Swaggert along with several other televangelists lie all
the time, but look at the number of follower they have.

As for lunatics, the best example is Hitler.  He was obviously insane,
his advisors certainly thought so.  Yet he had a whole country entralled
and came close to ruling all of Europe.  How many Germans gave their lives
for him?  To this day he has his followers.

I'm just amazed that people still try to use this argument.  It's just
so obviously *wrong*.


Well here in Australia you dial
11544
to get the number read back to you
if you live in the country include the area code of the nearest capital city
eg for wa 09 11544

Yours
Mark


There's been extensive discussion on the CompuServe Cancer Forum about Dr.
Burzynski's treatment as a result of the decision of a forum member's father
to undertake his treatment for brain glioblastoma.  This disease is
universally and usually rapidly fatal.  After diagnosis in June 1992, the
tumor was growing rapidly despite radiation and chemotherapy.  The forum
member checked extensively on Dr. Burzynki's track record for this disease.
He spoke to a few patients in complete remission for a few years from
glioblastoma following this treatment and to an NCI oncologist who had
audited other such case histories and found them valid and impressive.
After the forum member's father began Dr. Burzynski's treatment in
September, all subsequent scans performed under the auspices of his
oncologist in Chicago have shown no tumor growth with possible signs of
shrinkage or necrosis.

The patient's oncologist, although telling him he would probably not live
past December 1992, was vehemently opposed to his trying Dr. Burzynski's
treatment.  Since the tumor stopped its rapid growth under Dr. Burzynski's
treatment, she's since changed her attitude toward continuing these
treatments, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Dr. Burzynski is an M.D., Ph.D. with a research background who found a
protein that is at very low serum levels in cancer patients, synthesized it,
and administers it to patients with certain cancer types.  There is little
understanding of the actual mechanism of activity.


NUT CASE PANICS!!!!REALIZES HE'S MADE A COMPLETE FOOL OF HIMSELF IN FRONT OF
THOUSANDS OF NETTERS!!!!BACKS AWAY FROM EARLIER RASH STATEMENTS!!!!GOD HAVE
MERCY ON HIM!!!!


OK.  Instead of holding an auction, I have decided to compute prices for each comic (after many suggestions).  These are the most reasonable prices I can give (not negotiable).  If you would like to purchase a comic (or group), simply email me with the title and issue #'s you want.  The price for each issue is shown beside each comic.  First come, first served!!!  There is no more bidding.  Meet my price and it is yours.  I can be reached at this email address:

02106@chopin.udel.edu or
02106@ravel.udel.edu or
02106@bach.udel.edu or
02106@brahms.udel.edu

NO MORE HAGGLING ABOUT THE PRICE!!!!!!!!
LOTS OF COMICS FOR $1, $2, or $3 LOOK AT LIST!!!!!

For all those who have bought comics from me, thanks!!!

All comics are near mint unless otherwise noted (my books were graded by
mile high comics and other comic professional collectors, not me!)

Here is the list:

Incredible Hulk
156 (vs another Hulk) $3
195 $2
196 $2
246 (vs Captain Marvel) $1
248 $1
249 $1
250 (Double size issue vs Silver Surfer) $5
255 (vs Thor) $1
279 $1
300 $2
312 $2
313 $1
316 (vs Bi Coastal Avengers) $1
347 $1
348 $1
350 (vs Thing) $2
354 $1
358 $1
360 $1
362 (vs Werewolf By Night) $2
364 $1
365 $1
366 $1
379 (1 copy) $5

Punisher
50 $1
57 $2

Punisher War Journal
29 (Ghost Rider) $2
30 (Ghost Rider) $2

Punisher Armory
1 $4
2 $2

Original Ghost Rider Rides Again (Reprint)
1 $1

Ghost Rider (old series)
37 $3
43 (vs Johnny Blaze) $3
77 (2 copies, origin of GR dream) $4 each

Ghost Rider (new series)
15 (1st print, Green glow in dark cover, 1 copy) $5
15 (2nd print, gold cover w/ glow cover) $3

Web of Spiderman
56 (2 copies) $2 each
60 $3
69 (vs Hulk, 1 copy left!!!)  $2
70 (SpiderHulk, 1 copy left!!!)  $2
71 $1
72 $1
78 $1

Deadly Foes of Spiderman
1 (2 copies) $2 each
2 $2
3 $2

Amazing Spiderman vs Dr. Octopus (special NACME issue) $2

Amazing Spiderman
350 (vs Dr. Doom, 1 copy LEFT!!!) $2

Spiderman (1990)
1 (silver, not bagged) $4
6 $3
7 $3
8 (2 copies) $2 each
9 (w/ Wolverine, 1 COPY LEFT!!!) $2
10 $2
11 $1
13 $5
16 $1

New Warriors
1 (gold cover) $2
8 $4
10 $2
11 $1
12 $1
13 $1
14 (w/ Darkhawk) $1
15 $1

Superman Man of Steel #1 $2

Superman (new)
53 (2 copies) $1 each
55 $1
56 $1

Adventures of Superman
479 $1
Annual #3 $1

Superman Annual #3 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1

Action Comics #666 $1

Avengers West Coast #69 (Hawkeye vs US Agent) $1

Batman
465 (Robin returns) $2
466 $1
467 $1
Annual #15 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $3

Captain America
230 (vs Hulk) $2
257 (vs Hulk) $1

Armegedon 2001
1 $4
2 $2

Foolkiller #1 $2

Infinity Gauntlet
1 $6
4 $3
5 $3

Double Dragon #1 $1

Deathlok (series)
2 $1

Transformers #80 (last issue) $2

Wonder Man
1 $1
2 $1

Flaming Carrot #25 (w/ Ninja Turtles) $2

The Comet #1 $1

Legend of the Shield #1 $1

Justice Society of America
1 $1
2 $1
3 $1
4 $1

Official movie mag from Turtles II movie (sealed w/ Jelloman comic) $5

Robin
1 (1 copies w/ poster) $3
1 (3rd print) $1
5 (6 copies) $1 each

Guardians of the Galaxy
1 $6
2 $3
3 $2
4 $2
5 $2
6 $2
7 $2
8 $2
9 (2 copies) $3 each
10 $2
11 $2
12 $1
13 $3
14 $3
15 $1
16 $1
17 $1
18 (2 copies) $2 each

Superman vs Amazing Spiderman (oversized issue from 70's) $7

DarkHawk
1 (3 copies) $8 each
2 (2 copies) $6 each
3 $5
4 $4
5 $4
6 $3
7 $2
8 $2
9 $3
10 $1

Thor
246 $1
428 $1
429 (vs Juggernaut) $2
430 (w/ Ghost Rider) $1
431 $1
432 (Thor vs Loki, 2 copies) $3 each
433 (new Thor) $2
Annual #16 $1

What if....
13 $1
23 $1
25 $2
26 $1

Alpha Flight
29 $1
51 $6
53 $6
94 (vs Fant. 4) $1

New Mutants
22 $2
100 (last issue, 1st look at X-Force, 1st print, 2 copies) $5 each
100 (2nd print, gold cover) $4

Flash (new)
43 $1
48 $1
49 $1
50 $2
51 $1
Annual #4 $1

X-Men (new)
1 (all 5 covers) $1 each but $2 for magneto  foldout cover

Uncanny X-Men
191 $3
215 $2
255 (2 copies) $2 each
258 $6
268 (1 sold,1 copy left!, Lee reg artist) $10
275 (1 COPY LEFT 1st print) $6
275 (gold 2nd print) $3
276 $3
277 $3
278 $2
279 $2
280 $2
281 $3
282 $4
283 $6

Defenders
52 (Hulk vs Sub Mariner) $2

Fantastic Four
347 $4
348 $2
349 (3 copies) $2 each

Wolverine
11 $3
20 $2
41 (w/ Cable, 2 copies) $6 each
42 $4
43 $3

Silver Surfer (1987)
1 $6
2 $3
3 $3
4 $3
5 $2
6 $2
8 $2
22 $2
24 $2
32 $2
49 $2
50 (Foil cover, only 1 copy left!!) $6
51 $2
52 $2
53 $1
54 $1
55 $1
56 $1
58 $2
59 $2

Avengers
326 $3
328 (origin of Rage) $3

X-Factor
40 $6
67 $3
68 $6
71 $3
73 $1

Quasar
21 $1
22 $1
23 $1
24 $1

Green Lantern (1990)
3 $2
9 (2 copies) $1 each
10 $1
11 $1
12 $1

Toxic Avenger
1 (3 copies) $1 each
2 $1

Sleepwalker
1 (3 copies) $2 each
3 $1
7 $1

Kool Aid Man #1 (sealed in white bag, 2 copies) $2 each

X-Force
1 (bagged w/ Cable Card) $4
1 (bagged w/ Shatterstar Card) $3
2 $2
3 $1
4 $1

NFL Superpro
1  $1

Dr. Strange #31 $1

Hawkworld Annual #2 (2nd print, Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1

Hawk & Dove Annual #2 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1

Justice League of America Annual #5 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1

Send all bids and comments to

02106@chopin.udel.edu

Thanks
Sam (the "ex"  comic book collector)


Our panel of judges has deliberated the question, and the answer is:

Send the requester one copy, and then gang-FAQ yourself.


Is the ".3ds" file format for Autodesk's 3D Animation Studio available?

Thanks,
Gary


If you'd like to find a home for that beekeeping equipment you'll never use
again, here's a likely victim, uh, customer.

To make a deal, call:

		Laura Forbes (503)275-4483


Writer Kathy Sawyer reported in today's Washington Post that Joseph Shea, the
head of the space station redesign has resigned for health reasons.

Shea was hospitalized shortly after his selection in February.  He returned
yesterday to lead the formal presentation to the independent White House panel.
Shea's presentation was rambling and almost inaudible.

Shea's deputy, former astronaut Bryan O'Connor, will take over the effort.

Goldin asserted that the redesign effort is on track.


I see . . . you're not running Ultrix!

	:-)

				- - Steve


MLB Standings and Scores for Satruday, April 17th, 1993
	                   (including yesterday's games)

NATIONAL WEST	      Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10  Streak    Home   Road
San Francisco Giants   07   04    .636    --     6-4     Won 2   04-01  03-03
Houston Astros         06   04    .600   0.5     6-4     Won 1   01-03  05-01
Atlanta Braves         06   06    .500   1.5     5-5    Lost 3   04-03  03-02
Los Angeles Dodgers    04   07    .364   3.0     4-6     Won 1   01-03  03-04
Colorado Rockies       03   06    .333   3.0     3-6    Lost 1   03-03  00-03
San Diego Padres       03   07    .300   3.5     3-7     Won 1   01-04  02-03
Cincinnati Reds        02   08    .200   4.5     2-8    Lost 4   01-03  01-05

NATIONAL EAST
Philadelphia Phillies  08   02    .800    --     8-2    Lost 1   05-01  03-01
Pittsburgh Pirates     07   03    .700   1.0     7-3    Lost 1   03-02  04-01
St. Louis Cardinals    07   03    .700   1.0     7-3    Lost 1   04-02  03-01
New York Mets          05   04    .556   2.5     5-4     Won 1   02-03  03-01
Chicago Cubs           05   05    .500   3.0     5-5     Won 2   02-02  03-03
Montreal Expos         05   05    .500   3.0     5-5     Won 2   02-02  03-03
Florida Marlins        03   07    .300   5.0     3-7    Lost 1   02-04  01-03

AMERICAN WEST         Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10  Streak    Home   Road
Texas Rangers          06   03    .667    --     6-3    Lost 2   04-02  02-01
California Angels      05   03    .625   0.5     5-3    Lost 1   03-02  02-01
Chicago White Sox      05   04    .556   1.0     5-4     Won 2   02-03  03-01
Minnesota Twins        05   04    .556   1.0     5-4     Won 1   02-02  03-02
Oakland Athletics      04   04    .500   1.5     4-4    Lost 2   04-02  00-02
Seattle Mariners       04   05    .444   2.0     4-5    Lost 2   03-02  01-03
Kansas City Royals     02   08    .200   4.5     2-8    Lost 1   01-05  01-03

AMERICAN EAST
Boston Red Sox         07   03    .700    --     7-3    Lost 1   03-01  04-02
New York Yankees       06   04    .600   1.0     6-4     Won 1   03-01  03-03
Detroit Tigers         05   04    .556   1.5     5-4     Won 3   03-00  02-04
Toronto Blue Jays      05   04    .556   1.5     5-4    Lost 1   04-02  01-02
Cleveland Indians      04   06    .400   3.0     4-6     Won 1   03-01  01-05
Baltimore Orioles      03   06    .333   3.5     3-6     Won 2   01-02  02-04
Milwaukee Brewers      02   05    .286   3.5     2-5    Lost 4   00-02  02-03

			     YESTERDAY'S SCORES
                  (IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)

NATIONAL LEAGUE				AMERICAN LEAGUE

New York Mets		3		Chicago White Sox	9
Cincinnati Reds		1		Boston Red Sox		4

Florida Marlins		3		California Angels	1
Houston Astros		9		Baltimore Orioles	4

Philadelphia Phillies	1		Kansas City Royals	3
Chicago Cubs		3		Minnesota Twins		4 (10)

Colorado Rockies	2		Seattle Mariners	0
Montreal Expos		3		Detroit Tigers		5

Pittsburgh Pirates	4		Toronto Blue Jays	1
Los Angeles Dodgers	7		Cleveland Indians      13

Atlanta Braves		0		Texas Rangers		3
San Francisco Giants	1		New York Yankees	5

St. Louis Cardinals	1		Oakland Athletics     PPD
San Diego Padres	5		Milwaukee Brewers    RAIN
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Hernandez          |    RAMS  | |    /.\  ******* _|_|_  / |   LAKERS
jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU  |   KINGS  | |__ |   | DODGERS _|_|_  | |   RAIDERS
jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU  |  ANGELS  |____||_|_| *******  | |  |___|  CLIPPERS


Joe;

Your logic excapes me.

If the Papacy is infallible, and this is a matter of faith, then the
Pope cannot "be wrong!"  If, on the other hand, this is not a matter
of faith, but a matter of Church law, then we should still obey as the
Pope is the legal head of the church.

In other words, given the doctrine of infallibility, we have no choice
but to obey.

Bob

--
Bob Van Cleef              Peace -0- be      revc@garg.Campbell.CA.US
The Land of Garg BBS        unto /|\ you           BBS (408) 378-5108


Brian Yamauchi asks: [Regarding orbital billboards...]

    Well, I had been collecting data for next edition of the
Commercial Space News/Space Technology Investor... To summarize:

SPACE ADVERTISING
    First, advertising on space vehicles is not new -- it is very
common practice to put the cooperating organization's logos on the
space launch vehicle.  For example, the latest GPS launcher had the
(very prominent) logos on its side of
   - McDonnell Douglas (the Delta launcher)
   - Rockwell International (who built the GPS satellite)
   - USAF (who paid for the satellite and launch), and
   - the GPS/Navstar program office
   This has not been considered "paid advertising" but rather
"public relations", since the restrictions have been such that only
organizations involved in the launch could put their logos on the
side, and there was no money exchanged for this.  [However, putting
a 10' high logo on the side of the launch vehicle facing the cameras
is "advertising" as much as it is "public relations", in my
opinion.]  [And by the way, I note that the DC-X test vehicle has
rather prominent McDonnell-Douglas and SDIO logos on the side...]
   There have been several studies looking at the revenue potentials
for use of space vehicles for advertising, or placing large
advertising signs in orbit.  On the shuttle, for example, I know of
several serious studies in the early and mid 1980's which looked at
putting logos on the external tank, or on the sides of the payload
bay.  These ventures would be different than "public relations", in
that the logos or displays would not be restricted to the firms
participating on that flight, and would involve payment of sums for
the right to fly the logos in a prominent organization.  (For
example, painting the ET to look like a Pepsi can, or putting a
Disneyworld logo on the inside of the payload bay where the cameras
would scan past it.)

ADVERTS ON LAUNCH VEHICLES
   The first paid advertising was done on a Soviet launcher in about
1990, when several non-involved foreign organizations were allowed
to pay to put their logos on a Proton launch.  (An Italian shoe
company was one of the first advertisers, I remember.)  Similarly,
Soviet cosmonauts on Mir made a paid advertisement for the last
Olympic games, and have gleefully shown banners and other items from
participating firms and organizations.  Mars candy bars, for
example, got a plug from orbit as a sponsor of the launch of the
British visiting cosmonaut to Mir.
   Now US firms are starting to put paid advertisements on launch
vehicles.  The upcoming Conestoga launch (in June) putting the COMET
recoverable payload capsule into orbit will have paid advertisements
on the side, for Arnold Schwarzenegger's upcoming movie "The Last
Action Hero".  Besides the usual logos of the participating
organizations, Columbia pictures has paid $500,000 to put ads on the
main fuselage of the mission's Conestoga rocket, its booster
rockets, and on the COMET payload, which will orbit the Earth for
one month.  A concept for this advertising display was published in
Space News magazine a couple of months ago.
   (As a side note: Robert Lorsch, an advertising executive, is
talking about suing NASA.  He charges NASA with appropriating an idea he
created with the space agency in 1981 to form corporate advertising
sponsorships on NASA spacecraft as a way to get funding for the
space program.  Lorsch contends that in selling advertising space on
the upcoming COMET, NASA violated an agreement that it "would not use
his idea without him being the exclusive representative for NASA and
receiving compensation."   This is being disputed, since the launch
is a "commercial launch" and NASA is receiving none of the
advertising revenues, but the funding for the COMET program is
coming from NASA.)

ORBITAL "BILLBOARDS"
   Orbital "billboards" have been the staple of science fiction for
some time.  Arthur C. Clarke wrote about one example, and Robert
Heinlein described another in "The Man Who Sold the Moon".  Several
different potential projects have been developed, although none have
been implemented, but the most real prior to 1993 being the "Eiffel
II" project, which would have placed a large inflatable sculpture in
orbit to celebrate the French Republic's Bi-centennial.
                                                (cont)


I am having trouble with SCSI on a Mac IIfx. The machine is 3 years old
and I have been using the same hard drive (internal Maxtor LXT-200S) for
two and a half years. The disk recently crashed. I reformatted (Silverlining
5.42), but during the reformat I received random write errors during testing.
The error message reported was like:

Sector 0: Write error detected after testing good - sector not mapped out.

This occurred randomly all over the hard disk (which makes me suspect the
diagnostic's reference to Sector 0 ??? ). On the third reformat and after
reinstalling the SCSI read/write loops I was able to get through passes
2,3, and 4 with no errors. (Pass 1 for some reason reported a lot of errors,
but still mapped out no sectors.) I decided to go ahead and try to resinstall
System 7 and reload my data from a backup. This proceded normally; however,
I now have sub-optimal performance. Symptoms include:

   o Frequent crashes
   o Instances of extremely sluggish disk access requiring a reboot to
       correct.
   o Instances of not finding the disk on the SCSI chain on reboot.
       - If I boot from Norton Utl. after this occurs, it cannot find the
         disk either.
       - The only thing that fixes this is recycling the power. It sometimes
         requires several attempts.

QUESTIONS:

   1) Has anyone had this type of problem before?
   2) Is the problem with the fx motherboard (And its non-standard
      SCSI implementation) or with my Maxtor Disk? Is there some
      diagnostic software that would help me make this determination?
   3) Is it a termination problem? I currently have external Syquest
      and an external DataFrame XP60 on the chain. The XP60 is at the
      end, and has internal termination; so I am not using the IIfx
      terminator. I do have the SCSI filter installed on the internal
      drive. I have run with this exact steup for 2 1/2 years with
      one previous disk crash requiring a reformat (about a year ago).
      I also have symptoms if I disconnect the external devices;
      so I don't see how SCSI termination would now be an issue. Of
      course who knows :-<

Help would be much appreciated.


 	Take a look at ftp.cica.indiana.edu at pub/pc/win3/(util?misc?)
for a program caleld vswitch.zip.It's as close to want you want as you can
get in WIn3.1 ...
Hope it helps...


Hi all,

I have a IIsi with a floppy drive that might be bad (and might just be out
of alignment, I haven't checked yet. :-))  If the drive is not easily
reparable, I'd like to replace it with an _internal_ floptical.  Can this
be easily done?  Can it be done at all?

I'm assuming that floptical drives can read and write both 800k and 1.4k
floppies.  If this is not in fact true, please tell me.


I tell you, Steve Stone is like a prophet.
He must be making a ton in the boradcoast booth because
I can't understand why he's not actually back in the game itself.

The other day he called Sosa's homerun against the Sox and
claimed the game would be going into extra innings when the
score was 8-3 in the 5th.

So yesterday he notices that Sosa's ahead in the count against
Maddux and says, "This is a fastball situation and Sosa will be
looking for it.  But this is also the spot where Maddux throws
the straight change."   Sure enough. Sosa gets ahead on it and pops
it up to the infield.

Stoney for Cubs manager!


This may be a fairly routine request on here, but I'm looking for a fast
polygon routine to be used in a 3D game.  I have one that works right now, but
its very slow.  Could anyone point me to one, pref in ASM that is fairly well
documented and flexible?
	Thanx,
            //Lucas.


Archive-name: ripem/faq
Last-update: Sun, 7 Mar 93 21:00:00 -0500

ABOUT THIS POSTING
------------------
This is a (still rather rough) listing of likely questions and
information about RIPEM, a program for public key mail encryption.  It
(this FAQ, not RIPEM) was written and will be maintained by Marc
VanHeyningen, <mvanheyn@whale.cs.indiana.edu>.  It will be posted to a
variety of newsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific
to RIPEM is redirected to the group alt.security.ripem.

This month, I have reformatted this posting in an attempt to comply
with the standards for HyperText FAQ formatting to allow easy
manipulation of this document over the World Wide Web.  Let me know
what you think.

DISCLAIMER
----------
Nothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything
other than one person's opinion.  If you want real legal advice, talk
to a real lawyer.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
---------------------

1)  What is RIPEM?

 RIPEM is a program which performs Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM) using
 the cryptographic techniques of RSA and DES.  It allows your
 electronic mail to have the properties of authentication (i.e. who
 sent it can be confirmed) and privacy (i.e. nobody can read it except
 the intended recipient.)

 RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan <mrr@scss3.cl.msu.edu>.
 Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines,
 which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc.

2)  How can I get RIPEM?

 RIPEM contains the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is
 considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution
 to people who are not citizens or permanent residents of the U.S. or
 Canada.  Therefore, the following request is quoted from the README
 file:

 #Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution
 #outside of the USA or Canada.  This is a personal request from me,
 #the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM.

 Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is
 included with the distribution.  You should read it before using
 RIPEM.

 The best way to get it is to ask a friend for a copy, since this will
 reduce the load on those sites that do carry it (not to mention the
 humans that run them.)  Naturally this requires that you trust the
 friend.

 RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent residents
 in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README file for
 info.  Last I looked, this site contains only the source tree, and
 does not contain compiled binaries or the nice Mac version.

 RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its "home site" on
 rpub.cl.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the
 U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents.  To find out
 how to obtain access, ftp there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file
 GETTING_ACCESS.  For convenience, binaries for many architectures are
 available here in addition to the full source tree.

3)  Will RIPEM run on my machine?

 Probably.  It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of
 Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.)  Ports to
 Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice
 Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt.  More ports
 are expected, and help of users is invited.

4)  Will RIPEM work with my mailer?

 Probably.  How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend
 on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though.  The users
 guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM
 with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH.
 Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU
 Emacs.

 If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one
 in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure,
 and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem.

5)  What is RSA?

 RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key.  This means
 that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to
 decrypt.  Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other,
 you may publish your encryption, or public key widely and keep your
 decryption, or private key to yourself.  Anyone can use your public
 key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to
 decrypt it.  (Note that the "message" sent with RSA is normally just
 the DES key to the real message. (See "What is DES?")

 Note that the above only provides for privacy.  For authentication,
 the fingerprint of the message (See "What is a fingerprint, like
 MD5?") is encrypted with the sender's private key.  The recipient can
 use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm that the message
 must have come from the sender.

 RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who
 invented it.  To find out more about RSA, ftp to rsa.com and look in
 pub/faq/ or look in sci.crypt.

6)  What is DES?

 DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or
 secret-key, crypto system.  Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to
 encrypt and decrypt messages.  However, DES is much faster than RSA.

 RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts
 your mail with DES using that key.  It then encrypts that key with the
 recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter,
 allowing the recipient to recover the DES key.

 DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a
 key length considered too short by modern standards.  However, it
 should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large
 corporation or government agency.  It is not unlikely that future
 RIPEMs will strengthen the symmetric cipher, possibly by using
 multiple encryption with DES.

7)  What is PEM, and how does RIPEM relate?

 PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a system for allowing easy transfer of
 encrypted electronic mail.  It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these
 documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115.

 RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM
 specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not
 handle at this time.  Their addition is planned.

8)  What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?

 For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know
 your public key.  For you to be able to confirm that the message
 received came from her, you must know her public key.  It is important
 that this information be accurate; if a "bad guy" convinces her that
 his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read.

 RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server,
 the distributed finger servers, and a flat file.  All three are
 described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution.
 None of them provide perfect security.

9)  Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?

 RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS identifier describing various
 characteristics about the key, so the first bunch of characters in
 your key may be the same as those of lots of other people's keys.
 This does not mean your keys are similar, but only that they are the
 same class of key, were generated with the same program, are of the
 same length, etc.

10)  What is a fingerprint, like MD5?

 MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc.
 It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash,
 of the plaintext.  It is cryptographically secure because it is not
 possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a
 different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint.  Thus,
 instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key,
 only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication.

 MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often
 used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a
 passphrase interpreter or cookie generator.

 MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in
 RFC 1321.

11)  What is PGP?

 PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy.
 PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently.
 PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA.

 Some major differences between PGP and RIPEM:

 - PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without
   a direct network connection.

 - RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability of
   working with other PEM software.  PGP makes no attempt to be compatible
   with anything other than PGP (in fact, PGP 1.0 is not compatible with
   PGP 2.0.)

 - RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSA Data Security
   Inc.  RSAREF comes with a license which allows noncommercial use.
   PGP uses its own implementation of RSA which is not licensed; thus,
   PKP, the firm holding the U.S. patents on the RSA algorithm, claims
   that it is a infringement of that patent to make, use or sell PGP in
   the U.S. or Canada.  In acknowledgement of this, PGP's original
   author, Phil Zimmermann, says in the documentation:

   #In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency,
   #you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public
   #Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software.  PGP is
   #contraband.

 - Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside
   the U.S. and Canada.  However, PGP already exists on many ftp sites
   in Europe and other places.

 Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is
 recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues.

 Note that the above facts, both regarding patent and export
 restrictions, are somewhat controversial; many people think it
 shouldn't be that way, and some people interpret various documents
 differently.  Unfortunately, discussions of it on the net inevitably
 seem to produce more heat than light, and probably belong in
 misc.legal.computing.  (See:  "DISCLAIMER")

12)  What about RPEM?

 RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail.  It was similar to RIPEM,
 but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in
 an attempt to avoid the patent on RSA.  It was written by Mark
 Riordan, the same author as RIPEM.

 Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many
 (including Rabin), Public Key Partners (PKP) claimed that their patent
 was broad enough to cover any public-key cipher whose strength rested
 in the difficulty of factoring products of large primes, not just RSA.
 This claim is not universally accepted by any means, but was not
 challenged for pragmatic reasons.

 RPEM is not really used anymore.  It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP.

13)  What is MIME?

 MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is
 described in RFC 1341.  You can find out about it in the newsgroup
 comp.mail.mime.  How PEM should interact with MIME is not yet entirely
 clear; some people use the stopgap solution of having a MIME type
 application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM messages as MIME ones.  I
 hope some standards will emerge.  Draft Internet documents exist on
 the matter.

14)  I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...


I am having a problem with the high order bit of a character being
clipped when entered in an xterm window under motif. I have reprogrammed
the F1 key to transmit a <ff> <be> character sequence by using the
following line in .Xdefaults:

~Ctrl ~Shift ~Alt <Key> F1 : string(0xff) string(0xbe) \n\

I merge in this line with xrdb -merge and then create the new xterm
which has the remapped F1 key. The problem that arises is that the
application which is recieving input at the time only sees a <7f> <3e>
sequence, which is <ff> <be> with the high order bit of each
character being filtered or ignored.

When I run xev and press the F1 key, I get the correct value showing
up in the following two key events:

  KeyPress event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
  root 0x28, subw 0x0, time 2067815294, (67,80), root:(74,104),
  state 0x0, keycode 16 (keysym 0xffbe, F1), same_screen YES,
  XLookupString gives 0 characters:  ""

  KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
  root 0x28, subw 0x0, time 2067815406, (67,80), root:(74,104),
  state 0x0, keycode 16 (keysym 0xffbe, F1), same_screen YES,
  XLookupString gives 0 characters:  ""

Notice that the keysym being transmitted is correct; 0xffbe.
But when I use the F1 key while in vi or in a program I wrote to
spit back the hex values of keyboard input, I only get <7f> <3e>.

Does anyone know why the high order bit is being filtered and what
I can do to make sure that the entire 8bits make it through to
the final application? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Please *email* any responses.


: Thanks to all those people who recommended Workspace managers for
: Windows 3.1.  I found 3 shareware Workspace Managers, from Australia's
: MS-WINDOWS archive (monu6.cc.monash.edu.au), which mirrors some
: sites in the U.S.  The three I found were:
:
: 1. WORKSPACES 1.10 (wspace.zip)
[ review deleted ]
: 2. WORKSHIFT 1.6 (wrksft16.zip)
[ review deleted ]
: 3. BIGDESK 2.30 and BACKMENU (backdesk.zip)
[ review deleted ]

I really appreciate this information.  However, given that I don't have
direct Internet access - which means I don't have Archie access - I must
resort to using FTPMAIL.  This means that I need the site name and the
directory where these workspace managers are located.

So, can you (or anyone else) post or Email me the needed information?

Thanks very much!!!

Chris
--


Actually, the "ether" stuff sounded a fair bit like a bizzare,
qualitative corruption of general relativity.  nothing to do with
the old-fashioned, ether, though.  maybe somebody could loan him
a GR text at a low level.

didn't get much further than that, tho.... whew.


I assume that can only be guessed at by the assumed energy of the
event and the 1/r^2 law.  So, if the 1/r^2 law is incorrect (assume
some unknown material [dark matter??] inhibits Gamma Ray propagation),
could it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic
events happening much closer to us?  The even distribution could
be caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays
being shorter then 1/2 the thickness of the disk of the galaxy.

Just some idle babbling,
--

   Jim Batka  | Work Email:  BATKAJ@CCMAIL.DAYTON.SAIC.COM | Elvis is
              | Home Email:  JBATKA@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU      |   DEAD!


Yes, I saw a 200 Turbo Quattro wagon on I-287 in NJ on Monday.  I thought
Audi stopped selling wagons in the US after the 5000.  This is exactly the
type of vehicle I would like to own.  I bet its price is 4-5 times my
car budget.


Most of the points you made about Lopez v. Berryhill/Olson have been
made by others, and realizing that Lopez must be the second coming of
Frank Thomas, I have relented and praised the unmistakeable wisdom of
his supporters.

See?  This is essentially what everyone was doing  -  comparing Lopez
to one of the best players in the game.  I'm really looking forward
to seeing this can't-miss superstar now.  As for Thomas, I remember
being an advocate of his being brought up in 1990 even though he was
only 21 or 22 (can't remember).  But who did the Sox have at first?
Calderon?  Martinez?  Kittle?  The spot was there.  The talent was
there.  Sure, I say go for it.

I am not convinced that Lopez is anywhere near as talented as Thomas
was after his AA season in 1989, and I am not convinced that Olson/
Berryhill are nearly as bad as Kittle/Martinez were.

BTW, I don't think Thomas was hurt by those three months.

Well, if we can't compare our guy to one of the best in the game,
let's compare our decision to one of the most "Boneshead", right?

Cal Eldred was 24 when he came up, with a full season at AAA and a
longer minor league career.  Frankly, I don't know why he didn't
make the club in 1992.  Bones is a year younger with a lousy prior
history, and just watching him makes me think that I missed a
career as a big-league pitcher.  No one -  I repeat NO ONE  -
laughed louder than I did at the Sheffield trade.  (Though I guess
Mieske has a future.)

(I take it back. McIlvaine may have laughed louder.)

aw, gee, shucks.  thanks guy.  except I missed the part where SDCN's
admit they're wrong.

--	The Beastmaster


Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages).
(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5
 million Muslim people)

p. 19 (first paragraph)

"The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of
 ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same
 fate befell the Tartar section of Khankandi."

p. 130 (third paragraph)

"The city was a scene of confusion and terror. During the early days of
 the war, when the Russian troops invaded Turkey, large numbers of the
 Turkish population abandoned their homes and fled before the Russian
 advance."

p. 181 (first paragraph)

"The Tartar villages were in ruins."

Serdar Argic


I'd appreciate any advice about a video card for my system:

486-33 DX, 16 mb of ram
on a Novell 3.11 network
Monitor:  NEC 4FGe, capable of 76 Hz vertical refresh rate

Major considerations:

I expect I will work mostly in windows, but with some DOS
applications and I would want decent speed in DOS.  I do mostly word
processing, database and communications--not much intensive graphics.

With a 15" monitor, I expect I will work mostly in 800X600 and 256
colors seems plenty, but I'd like like the image to be sharp, fast,
and rock solid.

Other considerations:

I sometimes run a Unix clone (Coherent) and I understand that some
companies (e.g. Diamond?) don't encourage the third-party
development of drivers.

I might move to OS/2 if I decide I need better speed and reliability
than I get with Windows for my database work and multitasking.

I don't have a local bus motherboard--I'm not sure how much to invest
in an ISA video board (versus getting something less expensive now and
upgrading to local bus later).

I like buying things from companies that treat their customers well.

If you have any advice for me, I'd love to hear it via email or post.

Thanks.


What hardware do plan to run on?  Workstation or PC?  Cost level?
Run-time licensing needs?

Bob


  You are hereby authorized not to laugh.  By special dispensation of
her Hillariness.  This offer void where prohibited by law, consumer must
pay applicable sales tax.....
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Forwarded from Doug Griffith, Magellan Project Manager

                     MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT
                         April 23, 1993

1.  The Magellan spacecraft continues to operate normally, gathering
gravity data to plot the density variations of Venus in the
mid-latitudes.  The solar panel offpoint was returned to zero degrees
and spacecraft temperatures dropped 2-3 degrees C.

2.  An end-to-end test of the Delayed Aerobraking Data readout
process was conducted this week in preparation for the Transition
Experiment.  There was some difficulty locking up to the data frames,
and engineers are presently checking whether the problem was in
equipment at the tracking station.

3.  Magellan has completed 7277 orbits of Venus and is now 32 days
from the end of Cycle 4 and the start of the Transition Experiment.

4.  Magellan scientists were participating in the Brown-Vernadsky
Microsymposium at Brown University in Providence, RI, this week.  This
joint meeting of U.S. and Russian Venus researchers has been
continuing for many years.


: >We could start with those posters who annoy us the most, like Bobby or
: >Bill.

: Your wish is my command.

: Bill "Shit-stirrer" Connor
: Bobby "Circular" Mozumder

I'm not sure my new nom d'net is exactly appropriate, but it comes
very close. Considering what I have to wade through before I make one
of my insightful, dead-on-the-money repsonses, I have to agree that
something's getting stirred up. I would like to believe my
characterization of what I respond to would be kinder though, but if
you insist ...

I am also surprised to find that I have offended anyone, but in some
cases it's unavoidable if I am to say anything at all. For those to
whom fairness is important, check out my contributions, haven't I been
most generous and patient, a veritable paragon of gentility?

Oh, BTW, I don't mind being paired with Bobby; I admire his tenacity.
How many of you would do as well in this hostile environment - you
think -I'm- offensive ?! read your own posts ...

Love and kisses,

Bill

P.S.


For sale
--------

STR-AV1070 Audio Receiver
-------------------------
120 Watts per channel
Dolby Surround sound with Pro Logic
Learning Programmable remote
10 Watts per channel for surround sound
Supports Dual Room Link Control (to hear another source in a different room)
Index filing of all radio stations
7 band equilizer with real-time analyzer

I need to get $450 for this unit or best offer.

CDP-C910 Sony ten disc changer
------------------------------
Ten disc cartridge
Custom File of your favorite program or title or volume for each disc
		(Up to 184 disc memory!)
Remote control
Fixed and Variable volume outputs
Optical output
8x Oversampling rate

$325 firm.

I purchased these items about 6 months ago and need to sell them now to
buy a house.  Both units are in immaculate shape and are priced to move.


[Stuff about the connection between IDE and IDA deleated]
If IDE speed come from IDA WHERE does the 8.3MB/s sighted for IDE come from?

SCSI is not complex. It is just the way the industry uses and talks about it.
There are THREE key differences in SCSI; the controller chip, the port, and
the software.  THAT IS IT.
Let us look as SCSi in from THIS stand point.

SCSI-1: asynchronous and synchronous modes {SOFTWARE SCSI DRIVER ONLY}
 asynchronous is slower then synchronous mode {only 0-3MB/s vs. 0-5MB/s}
 synchronous speeds can be reached by most SCSi-1 divices with a
 rewrite of the software driver {As is the case for the Mac Quadra.}

SCSI-2 {8-bit}: THIS is the main source for the confusion. This differs from
 SCSI-1 ONLY in the controler chip in most machines.  In the Mac and some PCs
 this is called 'fast SCSI-1' because it uses SCSI-1 ports and software drivers
 AND can produce SCSI-2 SPEEDS through SCSI-1 INSPITE of this even in the
 slower asynchronous mode.  Average speed in asynchronous SCSi-1 mode
 4-6MB/s with 8MB/s{See in both Quadras and higher end PCs} Synchronous
 mode just allows a higher burst rate {10/MB/s}

SCSI-2 {16-bit}: TWO versions-Wide/Fast.  Wide SCSI-2 requires TWO things
 over 8-bit SCSI-2:  a SCSI-2 software driver and a wide SCSI port on the
 machine and the external device.
 Fast SCSI-2 also requires TWO things over 8-bit SCSI-2: SCSI-2 driver
 software and that the RECIEVING devise support 16-bit fast SCSI-2.
 Speed of both is the same: 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst.

SCSI-2 {32-bit}:  Also know as Wide AND Fast SCSI.  Over 8-bit SCSI-2 this
 requires: SCSI-2 driver software, wide SCSI-2 port, and that the RECIEVING
 devices ALSO have a 32-bit mode SCSI-2 chip.  As expected this is VERY
 expencive.  Speed: 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s bursts


I've been thinking of sending into Mad magazine an idea for a
parody, of those books entitled "How Things Work" that
engineers buy their sons, which explain how engines, elevators,
flourescent lights, etc. work.

The parody would be "How Things Really Work."  Under "Canned
Food", on the left page you'd see the description from
"How Things Work": gleaming stainless steel equipment
pasteurizing the food to precisely the right temperature,
then sealing the can in an oxygen-free environment, etc.

On the right page you'd see "How Things Really Work":
brain-dead workers sending disgusting food to the
gleaming equipment -- rotting vegetables, parts of
animals people don't eat, barrels of sugar and chemicals.

Under "Elevators" you'd see (on the left) computer geniuses
working out algorithms so that X number of people
waiting for Y elevators will get to Z floors in the shortest
time.  On the right, you'd see giggling elevator controllers
behind a one-way mirror in the lobby choosing which people
appear to be in the biggest hurry and making them wait longest.


For the last time, Bobby. Lack of belief in YOUR god does NOT imply
atheism. Just because some moslems aren't moral does not mean they don't
believe in a god named Allah, although their Allah may not do the things
your Allah does. If a moslem says he/she believes that a god exists, he/she
is a theist (though maybe not a TRUE follower of islam).

Jerk.


Let's see... April 15th... less than 30 at bats.... and you claim that he
hasn't done too much so far!

Cut this guy some slack. Danny will produce this year. It's scary to think
just how much he'll produce if he were to stay healthy all year.

The Yanks have a lot going for them this year: good starting rotation, good
bullpen, good defense and a good lineup. Also, I like Buck Showalter. Frank
Howard on 1st is also a good move. Everything sounds good so far.

If the Yanks stay healthy, they have a good chance at winning the pennant. This
is the most fun I've had watching the Yanks since "78!


Desiree Bradley (Desiree_Bradley@mindlink.bc.ca) asked us whether we
should think of the Serbs as doing God's work in Bosnia.  I've
refrained from posting, in hope that someone who is more familiar with
the OT than I would answer.  But at this point I feel I have to say
something.

Many things about this posting bother me.  I know of not the slightest
suggestion in the NT that Christians should use force to propagate the
Gospel, and the idea that we should not be concerned about the death
of Moslems violates the heart of the Gospel.  Christ died to break
down these distinctions.  In him there is neither Jew nor Greek, there
is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female.  If
Moslems do not know him, we may preach to them, but we don't kill
them.  Furthermore, the attack is between states, not religions.
There are Christians being attacked as well.  One of the towns under
attack is one of the few places where Christians and Moslems are
living together peacefully.

The precedents being suggested are from the OT.  There are in fact two
different things being alluded to.  The first is from the entry into
Canaan.  For that to be a parallel, we would need for God to have
promised this land through a prophet.  And we would need the war to be
a holy war.  There were tight constraints on behavior in those
attacks.  Any violations were likely to cause the Israelites to be
defeated.  Rape would not have been tolerated.  While the accounts in
Joshua emphasize towns that were totally destroyed, note that it was
possible for a town to make peace with the Israelites, and that once
that was done -- even when deception was involved -- they were
expected to honor it.  In contrast, there have been many violations of
agreement in this incident. I see no evidence that God has granted
Bosnia to the Serbs as a promised land, and if he had, their behavior
would have disqualified this from being a holy war.

The other OT parallel is from later, when Israel was defeated by
Assyria and Babylonia.  The prophets saw this as a judgement on Israel
for her sins.  Someone asks whether we shouldn't see this as a
judgement on the Bosnians for their sins.  This sounds like a replay
of the old claim that we shouldn't have doctors or hospitals because
illness is God's judgement.  Yes, even bad things may be used by God
for good.  That includes actions of bad people.  But that doesn't
justify them.  If you read the prophets, you find them very clear that
in attacking Israel, the Assyrians and Babylonians were acting as
*unintentional* agents of God.  Their intent was to attack God's
people, and they would be judged for it.  The fact that they were
actually carrying out God's plan didn't excuse their action.
Furthermore, we shouldn't conclude from this that all attacks are
judgements from God.  God explicitly interpreted that case, through
his prophets.  As far as I know, he did not send any prophets to
Bosnia.  While I find it hard to see any good in the current fighting,
I am sure God will eventually make good come out of bad.  But that
doesn't justify it, and it won't save the people who are doing it from
judgement.


Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.

You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.


As the subject says.  It has 70k and my brother-in-law wants $250.  Please don't
reply to me as I am posting this for him. Here's his numbers :
              5pm-10pm   712 676 3669
              daytime    712 269 1261


My Western Digital also has three sets of pins on the back. I am using it with
another hard drive as well and the settings for the jumpers were written right
on the circuit board of the WD drive......MA SL ??

I can't remember what the last one was. If you can't find these markings on the
circuit board, I'll open my machine and tell you what mine are.......


SMARTCAM VERSION 7 FOR SALE. Purchased in August 1992. Latest version!
Also willing to sell 486 33dx. 124mg hard drive. 17" multi scan monitor.

paid $11,000 for software and $2800 for computer. Also includes 1 yr maintanence
contract that can be updated every year for apx. $950 per year.

Make offer.

Call 1 800 940-7874
or 216-941-7400