Archive-name: ripem/faq
Last-update: 31 Mar 93 22:00:00 -0500

ABOUT THIS POSTING
------------------
This is a listing of likely questions and information about RIPEM, a
program for public key mail encryption.  It (this FAQ, not RIPEM) was
written and will be maintained by Marc VanHeyningen
<mvanheyn@cs.indiana.edu>.  It will be posted to a variety of
newsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific to RIPEM
is redirected to the group alt.security.ripem.

WHAT'S NEW
----------
I am now running a World Wide Web archive of RIPEM information.  It
does not contain much of anything that isn't available elsewhere, but
it has convenient pointers to the most current version of this FAQ and
some other stuff.  The URL is "http://cs.indiana.edu/ripem/dir.html".

This month's version has a fair amount of new pointers to information
on patents and stuff like that.  I've also reordered a few things to
have a more sensible ordering.  I hope I don't have to edit this again
soon. :-)

DISCLAIMER
----------
Nothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything
other than one layperson's opinion.  If you want real legal advice,
talk to a real lawyer, preferably one with experience in patent law,
export regulations, or whatever area of law is in question.

LIST OF QUESTIONS
-----------------
1)  What is RIPEM?
2)  How can I get RIPEM?
3)  Will RIPEM run on my machine?
4)  Will RIPEM work with my mailer?
5)  What is RSA?
6)  What is DES?
7)  What is a fingerprint, like MD5?
8)  What is PEM?
9)  What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?
10)  Isn't it a bad idea to use patented algorithms in standards like PEM?
11)  What about RSADSI/PKP?
12)  Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?
13)  What is PGP?
14)  What about RPEM?
15)  What is MIME?
16)  What is TIS/PEM?
17)  I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
---------------------

1)  What is RIPEM?

 RIPEM is a (not yet complete, but useful) implementation of Privacy
 Enhanced Mail (PEM).  RIPEM allows your electronic mail to have the
 four security facilities provided by PEM: disclosure protection
 (optional), originator authenticity, message integrity measures, and
 non-repudiation of origin (always).  (See: "What is PEM?")

 RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan <mrr@scss3.cl.msu.edu>.
 Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines,
 which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc.

 The current version of RIPEM is 1.0.5; the current version of the
 Macintosh port of RIPEM is 0.7.

2)  How can I get RIPEM?

 RIPEM uses the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is
 considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution
 to persons who are not citizens or permanent residents in the U.S or
 Canada without an export license.  No such license has been obtained
 (nor would one likely be granted unless the RSA key exchange were
 shortened to 512 bits and the symmetric cipher changed to something
 weaker than DES.  There are some suggestions that this situation may
 change now that Clinton is in office.)  The author requests in the
 README file that this law not be violated:

 #Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution
 #outside of the USA or Canada.  This is a personal request from me,
 #the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM.

 Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is
 included with the distribution.  You should read it before using
 RIPEM.

 RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent
 residents in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README
 file for info.  Note that the non-RSAREF portion of RIPEM is not a
 product of RSA Data Security, Incorporated; they merely are helping
 distribute it.

 RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its "home site" on
 ripem.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the
 U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents.  To find out
 how to obtain access, FTP there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file
 GETTING_ACCESS.  For convenience, binaries for many architectures are
 available here in addition to the full source tree.

3)  Will RIPEM run on my machine?

 Probably.  It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of
 Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.)  Ports to
 Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice
 Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt.  More ports
 are expected, and help of users is invited.

4)  Will RIPEM work with my mailer?

 Probably.  How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend
 on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though.  The users
 guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM
 with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH.
 Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU
 Emacs.

 If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one
 in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure,
 and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem.

5)  What is RSA?

 RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key.  This means
 that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to
 decrypt.  Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other,
 you may publish your encryption, or public, key widely and keep your
 decryption, or private, key to yourself.  Anyone can use your public
 key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to
 decrypt it.  Note that the "message" sent with RSA is normally just
 the DES key to the real plaintext. (See "What is DES?")

 Note that the above only provides for disclosure protection.  For
 originator authenticity, message integrity, and non-repudiation of
 origin services to be implemented, the fingerprint of the message
 (See "What is a fingerprint, like MD5?") is encrypted with the
 sender's private key.  The recipient, or a dispute-resolving
 authority, can use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm
 that the message must have come from the sender and was not altered.

 RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who
 invented it.  To find out lots more about RSA and modern cryptography
 in general, ftp to rsa.com and look in pub/faq/.  Some information
 also may be in sci.crypt.

6)  What is DES?

 DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or
 secret-key, crypto system.  Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to
 encrypt and decrypt messages.  However, DES is much faster than RSA.

 RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts
 your mail with DES using that key.  It then encrypts that key with the
 recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter,
 allowing the recipient to recover the DES key.

 DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a
 key length considered too short by modern standards.  However, it
 should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large
 corporation or government agency.  It is not likely that the PEM
 standard will incorporate support for other symmetric ciphers in the
 near future, because there is a strong feeling that PEM should be
 stable so it can become utilized widely without early problems with
 interoperability.

7)  What is a fingerprint, like MD5?

 MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc.
 It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash,
 of the plaintext.  It is cryptographically secure because it is not
 possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a
 different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint.  Thus,
 instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key,
 only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication.

 MD5s can also be exchanged directly for authentication; for example,
 RIPEM public keys include an MD5 of the public key in the file, so
 parties wishing to confirm their keys are authentic via a separate
 channel merely need exchange MD5s of keys and verify their accuracy.

 MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often
 used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a
 passphrase interpreter or cookie generator.

 MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in
 RFC 1321.

 There have been some recent suggestions that MD5 may not be as strong
 a hash as was originally believed; presumably some other hash
 function will be used if this is accepted as true.

8)  What is PEM?

 PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a standard for allowing transfer of
 encrypted electronic mail generated over a long period of time by a
 working group of experts.  It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these
 documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115.

 RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM
 specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not
 handle at this time.  Their addition is planned.

9)  What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?

 For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know
 your public key.  For you to be able to confirm that the message
 received came from her, you must know her public key.  It is important
 that this information be accurate; if a "bad guy" convinces her that
 his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read.

 RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server,
 the distributed finger servers, and a flat file.  All three are
 described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution.
 None of them provide perfect security.  The PEM standard calls for
 key management by certificates; the addition of this feature to RIPEM
 is planned, but chicken-egg issues still exist.

10)  Isn't it a bad idea to use patented algorithms in standards like PEM?

 This issue has been considered in the standards process.  RFC 1310,
 the specification for Internet standards, has a discussion (section
 6) on what specifications for nondiscriminatory availability must be
 met for a patented method to be included in a standard.  RFC 1421
 addresses this issue with regard to the patents covering public-key
 cryptography.

 This does not, of course, mean that all questions are settled or that
 everyone is in agreement.  An interesting exchange on the use of
 patented algorithms in standards with regard to public-key
 cryptography is in the League for Programming Freedom archive
 (available via FTP: ftp.uu.net:/doc/lpf) in the files bidzos.letter
 and bidzos.response.  (Amusingly, the LPF files on ftp.uu.net are
 compressed with a patented algorithm.)

11)  What about RSADSI/PKP?

 RSA Data Security, Inc. (RSADSI) is a California-based company
 specializing in cryptographic technologies.  Public Key Partners is a
 firm which holds exclusive sub-licensing rights of the following U.S.
 patents and all of their corresponding foreign patents:

      Cryptographic Apparatus and Method
      ("Diffie-Hellman")............................... No. 4,200,770

      Public Key Cryptographic Apparatus
      and Method ("Hellman-Merkle").................... No. 4,218,582

      Cryptographic Communications System and
      Method ("RSA")................................... No. 4,405,829

      Exponential Cryptographic Apparatus
      and Method ("Hellman-Pohlig").................... No. 4,424,414

 PKP claims these four patents cover all known methods of public key
 cryptography.  The two businesses are rather closely related (for
 example, the same person, Jim Bidzos, is president of both of them.)
 PKP has licensed this technology to a considerable number of
 companies (IBM, DEC, Motorola, AT&T, Lotus...) for use in their
 products.  PKP has also threatened and filed lawsuits defending their
 patents.

 RIPEM was originally created with no connection to RSADSI other than
 its use of the RSAREF library, and for no reason other than its
 author's desire to see widespread use of public-key cryptography.
 However, after the ball started rolling, people at RSADSI got
 interested.  RSADSI decided to carry RIPEM on its FTP site, and some
 people there started making their own RIPEM keys and contributing
 code.  RIPEM even won the "Best Application Built on RSAREF in 1992"
 award.

12)  Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?

 RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS (Public-Key Cryptography
 Standards) identifier describing various characteristics about the
 key, so the first bunch of characters in your key may be the same as
 those of lots of other people's keys.  This does not mean your keys
 are similar, but only that they are the same class of key, were
 generated with the same program, are of the same length, etc.

13)  What is PGP?

 PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy.
 PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently.
 PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA.

 A few major differences between PGP and RIPEM:

 - PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without
   a direct network connection.

 - RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability
   of working with other PEM software.  PGP makes no attempt to be
   compatible with anything other than itself.

 - RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSADSI which
   comes with a license allowing noncommercial use.  PGP uses its own
   implementation of RSA.  PKP claims that it is a violation of its
   patents to "make, use or sell" PGP in the U.S. or Canada without
   either a license or written permission.  (See: "DISCLAIMER")
   (See: "What about RSADSI/PKP?")  Phil Zimmermann, the author of
   PGP, stopped distributing it after being threatened with legal
   action; he believed that a licensing scheme could be arranged, but
   it hasn't happened and there seems little prospect of it happening
   in the future.  He acknowledges in the PGP User's Guide:

   #In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency,
   #you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public
   #Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software.  PGP is
   #contraband.

 - Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside
   the U.S. and Canada without an export license.  However, PGP
   already exists on many ftp sites in Europe and other places.

 Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is
 recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues.
 Unfortunately, it's not distributed separately from the program,
 which can be difficult to find in the U.S. on FTP sites due to
 liability concerns.

14)  What about RPEM?

 RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail.  It was similar to RIPEM,
 but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in
 an attempt to avoid the patents on public-key systems.  It was
 written by Mark Riordan, who later wrote RIPEM.

 Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many
 (including Rabin), PKP claimed that their patents were broad enough
 to cover the cipher employed.  This claim is not universally
 accepted, but was not challenged for pragmatic reasons.

 RPEM is not really used anymore.  It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP.

15)  What is MIME?

 MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is
 described in RFC 1341.  You can find out about it in the newsgroup
 comp.mail.mime; a FAQ exists on it.  How PEM should interact with
 MIME is not yet entirely clear; some people use the stopgap solution
 of having a MIME type application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM
 messages as MIME ones.  I hope some standards will emerge.  Draft
 Internet documents exist on the matter.

16)  What is TIS/PEM?

 Trusted Information Systems is working on a version of Privacy
 Enhanced Mail for general availability.  Last I heard, it was
 rumored to be integrated into an existing mail user agent (MH)
 rather than a stand-alone system, and in beta test.  I don't know
 much more than that.

17)  I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...


	You talking bout the same Noemi I know? She makes me think of big bore
hand guns and extreme weirdness. This babe rode a CSR300 across the desert! And
a borrowed XL100 on the Death Ride. Don't fuck with her man, your making a big
mistake.

--
Go fast. Take chances.


Has someone a list of CD-ROM's with no SCSI-Interface and if known
how much they are present in the market.

Please mail direcktly as I am not reguarly reading the group.

I'll post a summary if wanted.

Thanks

Ihno

==============================================================================
Ihno Krumreich       | Phone (49) 721 955 253 0        U   U N   N  III  X   X
Synerix Gmbh         | email: ihno@generics.ka.sub.org U   U NN  N   I    X X
Bach Strasse 24      | FAX   (49) 721 59 02 11         U   U N N N   I     X
D-W7500 Karlsruhe 21 |                                 U   U N  NN   I    X X
                                                        UUU  N   N  III  X   X
--


Greetings:

Can someone steer me towards sources of information on vehicle data
logging systems?  In  particular, I would like to build/buy (or a little
of both) a system that is small enough to fit on a motorcycle and will
take input from various sensors (pressure, LVDT's, acceleration, RPM,
O2 sensor...), digitize and record it for later analysis.

Please email me any info.  If I get anything interesting, I'll compile
it and get it on the net.  Thanks.


A freeze dried Tootsie Roll (tm).  The actual taste sensation was like nothing
you will ever willingly experience.  The amazing thing was that we ate a second
one, and a third and ....

I doubt that they actually flew on missions, as I'm certain they did "bad
things" to the gastrointestinal tract.  Compared to Space Food Sticks, Tang was
a gastronomic contribution to mankind.
--
Dillon Pyron                      | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support    | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here)     |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home)     |God gave us weather so we wouldn't complain
pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com          |about other things.
PADI DM-54909                     |


              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

When are we going to hear a Christian answer to this question?

In paraphrase:


I am resending this message because my news program may have goofed the first
time.

Terry, I recently bought an LCIII and a Datadesk 101E. I don't
remember trying to rebuild the desktop with it, however it did give me
a strange problem.  When I held down shift during startup to disable
all extensions, nothing happened. I tried it with another keyboard, using
the same adb connector cable- and it worked with the other keyboard.
The shift key on the Datadesk keyboard worked well otherwise. I checked
the dipswitches and they are fine.  Try disabling your extensions and tell
me if it works.

I am annoyed with Datadesk.  I sent them the keyboard in the mail for
inspection/repair/replacement.  The technician on the phone said they
have a 10-14 day turn around time- meaning you should receive the
inspected/repaired keyboard in that time.  Well, they have had the
keyboard for over 3 weeks and I still have gotten very little info
from them about it. It's annoying because it cost me $12 to send them
the keyboard and their technical support line is not toll free. tell me
if you have a similar experience with them.


Hi!

I need a Windows 3.1 driver for the Matrox PG-1281 CV
SVGA card.
At the moment Windows runs only in the 640x480 mode.
If you have a driver for this card, please send it
with the OEMSETUP.INF to

bockamp@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE

Thanks!


I think you can add former A's first baseman Mike Epstein (no relation) to
the list.


       This seems a strange argument to make considering that Canada's
violent crime rate in general is far lower than that of the U.S.  (Our
non-gun crime rate is greater than their *entire* crime rate).  It
would seem strange to suggest that it, to, were the result of gun
control laws.

       I think if we looked we'd find very specific (cultural and
enforcement) reasons why the non-gun rate is low as well, and then
that reasons could be applied to the with-gun rates as easily.

       Aside from the fact that I find the idea of being punished
because somebody might steal something from me and go and commit a
crime with it a silly solution, it still doesn't address the
question of Canada.  (Which is now, by the way, blaming their rising
gun-crime rate on the U.S.  Strange that the border used to "magically"
keep the guns out, but now isn't.)

       The other side of the coin, of course, is that far "illegal drugs"
are purchases legally or stolen from people who purchase them legally.
I've still not been convinced that guns, a commodity which criminals
have shown their perfectly willing to pay for from illegal sources
(stolen either from police, military, or civilian) we wouldn't simply
see South American sources from which drugs come start smuggling guns as
well, since there's a thriving gun manufacturing industry down there.

        And as was not pointed out in the study, but in critiques
of it, (two seperate articles by James Wright and David Kopel come
to mind) it was pointed out that the difference was *also* almost
entirely minority related.  That is, the gun crime rate skyrocketed
for poor minorities (Blacks and Hispanics primarily) while when you
compared the white majority they were virutally identical.

        The problem with the NEJM study was they compared minority vs.
non-minority percentages but failed to take into account the relative
conditions of those minorities.  That there was an eqaul percentage of
nomn-whites was about as far as they went.  They failed to take into
account that the non-whites in either city were not living in the
same conditions.

        If the situation was entirely based on availability of guns,
then we'd expect that the white rates, the two groups which are
arguably fairly comparative in the two cities, would have a far
higher rate in Seattle.  Yet the majority in Seattle is not only
not significantly higher when the minorities are excluded, but slightly
lower.

       The point is, of course, that many of the U.S. "inner-city"
problems are not mirrored in Canada.  As such  if there is a condition
which is significantly different in Canada from the U.S., and violent
crime is highly correlated to that area, suggesting that gun control
is the source of Canada's low rate is highly questionable.  (As one
Canadian pointed out on talk.politics.guns, Canada's major gun control
in 1978 did not result in either a reduction or a slowing of an increase
in violent crime rates, which have been rising steadily since.  Apparently
they didn't even mirror the U.S.s very large drop of violent crime in
the early eighties.

       True only to a certain extent.  Take Washington D.C., where
gun control was instituted while it had crime problems true, but that
crime proceeded to explode afterwards.  Similarly for New York.

       The question is not simply a point in time where crime was high
or low.  Did the gun control significantly and positively impact
violent crime.  Since it's gone up in those areas, often faster than it
was going up before, you can't simply dismiss the high crime rate by
saying gun control was caused by it.  Yes, gun control may be instituted
to deal with high crime.  But if the crime is not positively impacted, you
can't continually say that that crime rate was entirely a cause of
that gun control, since much of that crime rate increased after gun control
was implemented, just as happened in Canada.

       As would be expected if violent crime was generally independent
of gun control.

       Would this be the laws which made manufacturers liable for what
others did with their guns, and suddenly the police found nobody would
sell to them?


Sorry for the repeat of this request, but does anyone know of a good
free/shareware program with which I can create ray-traces and save
them as bit-mapped files?  (Of course if there is such a thing =)

Thanks in advance


##I strongly suggest that you look up a book called THE BIBLE, THE QURAN, AND
##SCIENCE by Maurice Baucaille, a French surgeon.  It is not comprehensive,
##but, it is well researched.  I imagine your library has it or can get it
##for you through interlibrary loan.
##

  I shall try to get hold of it (when I have time to read of course :-)

##In short, Dr Baucaille began investigating the Bible because of pre-
##ceived scientific inaccuracies and inconsistencies.  He assumed that
##some of the problems may have been caused by poor translations in by-
##gone days.  So, he read what he could find in Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic.
##What he found was that the problems didn't go away, they got worse.
##Then, he decided to see if other religions had the same problems.
##So, he picked up the Holy Qur'an (in French) and found similar prob-
##lems, but not as many.  SO, he applied the same logoic as he had
##with the Bible: he learned to read it in Arabic.  The problems he
##had found with the French version went away in Arabic.  He was unable
##to find a wealth of scientific statements in the Holy Qur'an, but,
##what he did find made sense with modern understanding.  So, he
##investigated the Traditions (the hadith) to see what they had to
##say about science.  they were filled with science problems; after
##all, they were contemporary narratives from a time which had, by
##pour standards, a primitive world view.  His conclusion was that,
##while he was impressed that what little the Holy Qur'an had to
##say about science was accurate, he was far more impressed that the
##Holy Qur'an did not contain the same rampant errors evidenced in
##the Traditions.  How would a man of 7th Century Arabia have known
##what *not to include* in the Holy Qur'an (assuming he had authored
##it)?
##

    So in short the writer (or writers) of Quran decided to stay away from
science.  (if you do not open your mouth, then you don't put you foot into
your mouth either).

   But then if you say Quran does not talk much about science, then one can
not make claims (like Bobby does) that you have great science in Quran.

   Basically I want to say that *none* of the religious texts are supposed to
be scientific treatises. So I am just requesting the theists to stop making
such wild claims.

--- Vinayak
-------------------------------------------------------
                                           vinayak dutt
                                   e-mail: vdp@mayo.edu

             standard disclaimers apply


Has anyone heard what game ESPN is showing tonight.  They said they will
show whatever game means the most playoff-wise. I would assume this would
be the Blues-Tampa game or the Minnesota-Red Wings game...  Anyone heard for
sure???


The CD300 (external) is already shipping and has been shipping for quite awhile
now.  Demand for the units are high, so they are pretty rare.  I've seen them
listed for around $525-550 at local computer stores and the campus Mac
reseller.  I've also heard rumors that they are bundled with a couple of CD's,
but I can't confirm it.


[Note, Ohio legislation unlike Federal legislation, shows the entire
law as it would be changed by the legislation.  These parts are in
ALL CAPITALS, the rest (i.e., current law is in regular type)].

AS INTRODUCED

120TH GENERAL ASEMBLY

REGULAR SESSION                       H. B. NO. 278

1993-1994

REPRESENATIVE BEATTY

A BILL

To amend sections2923.11, 2923.17,and 2923.20 and
to enact section 2923.181 of the Revised Code
to expand the defintion of dangerous ordnance to
include military weapons that do not use bolt
action, to increase the penalty for a violation
of the prohibition against possession of
dangerous ordnance, to prohibit any person from
acquiring a military weapon on or after the act's
effective date, to require the licensure of
military weapons acquired for aproper purpose
prior to the act's effective dte, to prohibit a
person from importing, manufacturing, or selling
a military weapon, and to declare an emergency.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF OHIO:

Section 1. That sections 2923.11, 2923.17 and 2923.20 be

amended and section 2923.181 of the Revised Code be enacted to

read as follows:

     Sec.  2923.11.  As used in section 2923.11 to 2923.24 of
the Revised Code:
     (A) "deadly weapon" means any instrument, device, or thing
capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted
for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon.
     (B)(1)  "firearm" means any deadly weapon capable of
expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of
an explosive or combustible propellant.  "firarms" includes an
unloaded firearm, and any firearm which is inoperable but which
can readily be rendered operable.
     (2) When determining whether a firearm is capable of
expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of
an explosive or combustible propellant, the trier of fact may
rely upon circumstancial evidence, including, but not limited to,
the representations and actions of the individual exercising
control over the firearm.
     (C) "Handgun" means any firearm designed to be fired while
held in one hand.
     (D) "Semi-automatic firearm" means any firearm designed or
specially adapted to fire a single cartridge and automatically
chamber a suceeding cartridge ready to fire, with a single
function of the trigger.
     (E) "Automatic firearm" means any firearm designed or
specially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a
single function of the trigger.  "Automatic firearm" also means
any semi-automatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire
more than thirty-one cartridges without reloading, other than a
firearm chambering only .22 caliber short, long, or long-rifle
cartridges.
     (F) "Sawed-off firearm" means a shotgun with a barrel less
than eighteen inches long, or a rifle with a barrel less than
sixteen inches long, or a shotgun or rifle less than twenty-six
inches long overall.
     (G)  "Zip-gun" means any of the following:
     (1)  Any firearm of crude and extemporized manufacture;
     (2)  Any device, including without limitation a starter's
pistol, not designed as a firearm, but which is specially adapted
for use as a firearm;
     (3)  Any industrial tool, signalling device, or safety
device, not designed as a firearm, but which as designed is
capable of use as such A FIREARM, when possessed, carried, or
used as a firearm.
     (H)  "Explosive device" means any device designed or
specially adapted to cause physical harm to persons or property
by means of an explosion, and consisting of an explosive
substance or agency and a means to detonate it.  "Explosive
device" includes without limitation any bomb, any explosive
demolition device, any blasting cap or detonator containing an
explosive charge, and any pressure vessel which has been
knowingly tampered with or arranged so as to explode.
     (I)  "Incendiary device" means any firebomb, and any device
designed or specially adapted to cause physical harm to persons
or property by means of fire, and consisting of an incendiary
substance or agency and a means to ignite it.
     (J)  "Ballistic knife" means a knife with a detachable
blade that is propelled by a spring-operated mechanism.
     (K)  "Dangerous ordinance" means any of the following,
except as provided in division (L) of this section:
     (1)  Any automatic or sawed-off firearms. zip-gun, or
ballistic knife;
     (2)  Any explosive device or incendiary device;
     (3)  Nitroglycerin, nitrocellulose, nitrostarch, PETN,
cyclonite, TNT, picric acid, and other high explosives; amatol,
tritonal, tetrytol, pentolite, pecretol, cyclotol, and other high
explosive compositions; plastic explosives; dynamite, blasting
gelatin, gelatin dynamite, sensitized ammonium nitrate, liquid-
oxygen blasting explosives, blasting powder, and other blasting
agents; and any other explosive substance having sufficient
brisance or power to be particularly suitable for use as a
military explosive, or for use in mining, quarrying, excavating,
or demolitions;
     (4)  Any firearm, rocket launcher, mortar, artillery piece
grenade, mine, bomb, torpedo, or similar weapon, designed and
manufactured for military purposes, and the ammunition for that
weapon;
     (5)  Any firearm muffler or silencer;
     (6)  ANY MILITARY WEAPON;
     (7)  ANY DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, MAGAZINE, DRUM, BELT, FEED
STRIP, OR SIMILAR DEVICE THAT HAS A CAPACITY OF, OR THAT READILY
CAN BE RESTORED OR CONVERTED TO ACCEPT, MORE THAN FIFTEEN ROUNDS
OF AMMUNITION;
     (8)  Any combination of parts that is intended by the owner
for use in converting any firearm or other device into a
dangerous ordinance.
     (L)  "Dangerous ordnance" does not include any of the
following:
     (1)   Any firearm, including a military weapon and the
ammunition for that weapon, and regardless of its actual
age, which employs a percussion cap or other obsolete ignition
system or which is designed and safe for use only with black
powder, and
     (2)  Any pistol, rifle, or shotgun, designed or suitable
for sporting purposes, UNLESS THE FIREARM IS EITHER OF THE
FOLLOWING;
     (a)  A military weapon as issued or as modified, and the
ammunition for that weapon;
     (b)  AN automatic or sawed-off firearm.
     (3)  Any cannon or other artilery piece which,
regardless of its actual age, is of a type in accepted use prior
to 1887, has no mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic, or other system
for absorbing recoil and returning the tube into battery without
displacing the carriage, and is designed and safe for use only
with black powder;
     (4)  Black powder, priming quills, and percussion caps
possessed and lawfully used to fire a cannon of a type defined in
division (L) (3) of this section during displays, celebrations,
organized matches or shoots, and target practice, and smokeless
and black powder, primers, and percussion caps possed and
lawfully used as a propellant or ignition device in small-arms or
small-arms ammunition;
     (5)  Dangerous ordinance which is inoperable or inert and
cannot readily be rendered operable or activated, and which is
kept as a trophy, souvenir, curio, or museum piece.
     (6)  Any device which is expressly excepted from the
definition of a destructive device pursuant to the "Gun Control
Act of 1968," 82 Stat. 1213, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4), as amended, and
regulations issued under that act.
     (M)  "MILITARY WEAPON' MEANS ANY OF THE FOLLOWING;
     (1)  ANY FIREARM THAT ORIGINALLY WAS MANUFACTURED FOR
MILITARY USE, OR A COPY OF ANY SUCH FIREARM, IF THE FIREARM IS
NOT A BOLT ACTION FIREARM;
     (2)  ANY MODEL OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A
SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM AND IS A RIFLE OR ANY MODEL OF ANY COPY OF
ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM
AND IS A RIFLE;
     (a)  ARMALITE AR-180;
     (b)  AUTO-ORDNANCE THOMPSON MODELS 1927A1 AND M-1;
     (c)  AVTOMAT KALASHNIKOV;
     (d)  POLY TECH AK-47S;
     (e)  CHINA SPORTS AK-47 BULLPUP;
     (f)  MITCHELL AK-47 AND M-76
     (g)  BARRETT LIGHT-FIFTY MODEL 82A1;
     (h)  BARETTA AR-70;
     (i)  BUSHMASTER AUTO RIFLE;
     (j)  CALICO M900 AND M-100
     (k)  COLT AR-15
     (l)  COMMANDO ARMS CARBINE, MARK 111, MARK 45, AND MARK 9;
     (m)  UNIVERSAL 5000 CARBINE, ENFORCER;
     (n)  AMERICAN ARMS ARM-1 AND AKY 39;
     (o)  DAEWOO MAX-1 AND MAX-2;
     (p)  FABRIQUE NATIONALE FN/FAL, FN/LAR. AND FN/FNC;
     (q)  FAMAS MAS 223;
     (r)  FEATHER AT-9;
     (s)  FEDERAL KC-900 AND XC-450
     (t)  GALIL AR AND ARM;
     (u)  GONCZ HIGH-TECH CARBINE;
     (v)  HECKLER AND KOCH HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, AND PSG-1;
     (w)  MANDALL TAC-1 CARBINE
     (x)  RUGER MINI 14/SF FOLDING STOCK MODEL;
     (y)  SIG 57 AMT AND 500 SERIES;
     (z)  SPRINGFIELD ARMORY SAR-48, G-3, BM-59 ALPINE, AND M1A

CARBINE;
     (aa)  STERLING MK-6 AND MARK 7;
     (bb)  STEYR AUG;
     (cc)  UZI CARBINE AND MINI-CARBINE;
     (dd)  VALMET M-62S, M-76, M-78, AND M82 BULLPUP CARBINE;
     (ee)  WEAVER ARMS NIGHTHAWK;
     (ff)  MILITARY M14 AND MILITARY M1 CARBINE .30;
     (gg)  SPRINGFIELD ARMORY M1A ASSAULT;
     (hh)  THOMPSON 27A-5 WITH DRUM MAGAZINE;
     (ii)  PLAINFIELD COMMANDO UNIVERSE 5000 CARBINE;
     (jj)  COBRAY M-11 WITH OR WITHOUT SILENCER;
     (kk)  SPECTRE AUTO CARBINE;
     (ll)  SWD    COBRAY;
     (mm)  ARMI JAGER AP-74 AND AP-74 COMMANDO;
     (nn)  ARMSCORP OF AMERICA ISRAELI FN-FAL;
     (oo)  CLAYCO SKS CARBINE;
     (pp)  DRAGUNOV SNIPER;
     (qq)  EMF AP-74;
     (rr)  IVER JOHNSON PM30 P PARATROOPER;
     (ss)  NORINCO SKS;
     (tt)  PARTISAN AVENGER;
     (uu)  SIGARMS SG 550 SP AND SG 551 SP;
     (vv)  SQUIRES BINGHAM M 16;
     (ww)  WILKINSON "TERRY" CARBINE.

     (3)  ANY MODEL OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A
SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM AND IS A PISTOL OR ANY MODEL OF ANY COPY
OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM
AND IS A PISTOL:

     (a)  BUSHMASTER AUTO PISTOL;
     (b)  CALICO 100-P AUTO PISTOL;
     (c)  EBCIN NJ-IV, MP-9, AND MP-45;
     (d)  FEATHER MINI-AT;
     (e)  GONCZ HIGH TECH PISTOL'
     (f)  HOLMES MP-83 AND MP-22;
     (g)  INTRATEC TEC-9 AND SCORPION .22;
     (h)  IVER JOHNSON ENFORCER;
     (i)  INGRAM MAC-10 AND MAC-11;
     (j)  MITCHELL ARMS SPECTRE AUTO;
     (k)  SCARAB SKORPION;
     (l)  STERLING MK-7;
     (m)  UZI PISTOL;
     (n)  UNIVERSAL ENFORCER;
     (o)  WILKINSON "LINDA" AUTO PISTOL.

     (4)  ANY MODEL OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A
SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM AND IS A SHOTGUN OR ANY MODEL OF ANY COPY
OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FIREARMS THAT IS A SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARM
AND IS A SHOTGUN:

     (a)  FRANCHI SPAS-12 AND LAW-12;
     (b)  STRIKER 12 AND STREET SWEEPER;
     (c)  BENELLI M1 SUPER 90;
     (d)  MOSSBERG 500 BULLPUP;
     (e)  USAS-12 AUTO SHOTGUN.

     Sec. 2923.17.  (A)(1) No person shall knowingly acquire,
have, OR carry any dangerous ordnance.

     (2)  NO PERSON SHALL KNOWINGLY USE ANY DANGEROUS ORDNANCE.
     (B)  This section does not apply to ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
     (1)  Officers, agents, or employees of this or any other
state or the United States, members of the armed forces of the
United States or the organized militia of this or any other
state, and law enforcement officers, to the extent that any such
person is authorized to acquire, have, carry, or use dangerous
ordnance and is acting within the scope of his duties;
     (2)  Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and users of
explosives, having a license or user permit issued and in effect
pursuant to the "Organized Crime Control Act of 1970," 84 Stat.
952, 18 U.S.C. 843, and any amendments or additions TO or
reenactments OF THAT ACT, with respect to explosives and
explosive devices lawfully acquired, possessed, carried, or used
under the laws of this state and applicable federal law;
     (3)  Importers, manufactuers, and dealers having a license
to deal in destructive devices or their ammunition, issued and in
effect pursuant to the "Gun Control Act of 1968," 82 Stat. 1213.
18 U.S.C. 923 and any amendments or additions TO or
reenactments OF THAT ACT, with respect to dangerous
ordnance lawfully acquired, possessed, carried, or used under the
laws of this state and applicable federal law;
     (4)  Persons to whom surplus ordnance has been sold,
loaned, or given by the secretary of the army pursuant to 70A
Stat. 62 and 263, 10 U.S.C. 4684, 4685, 4686, and any
amendments or additions TO or reenactments OF THAT ACT, with
respect to dangerous ordnance when lawfully possessed and used
for the purpose specified in THAT section;
     (5)  Owners of dangerous ordnance registered in the
national firearms registration and transfer record pursuant to
the act of October 22, 1968, 82 Stat.1229, 26 U.S.C. 5841, and
any amendments or additions TO or reenactments OF, and
regulations issued UNDER THE ACT.
     (6)  Carriers, warehousemen, and others engaged in the
business of transporting or storing goods for hire, with respect
to dangerous ordnance lawfully transported or stored in the usual
course of their business and in compliance with the laws of this
state and applicable federal law;
     (7)  The holders of a license or temporary permit issued
and in effect pursuant to section 2923.18 of the Revised Code,
with respect to dangerous ordnance lawfully acquired, possessed,
carried, or used for the purposes and in the manner specified in
THE license or permit.
     (C)  DIVISION (A)(1) OF THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO THE
ACQUISITION, HAVING, OR CARRYING OF DANGEROUS ORDNANCE THAT IS A
MILITARY WEAPON IF BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY:
     (1)  THE PERSON WHO ACQUIRES, HAS, OR CARRIES THE DANGEROUS
ORDNANCE IN QUESTION ACQUIRED IT BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF
THIS AMENDMENT AS A COLLECTOR'S ITEM OR FOR A LEGITIMATE
RESEARCH, SCIENTIFIC, EDUCATIONAL, INDUSTRIAL, OR OTHER PROPER
PURPOSE;
     (2)  NO LATER THAN THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE SEVENTH DAY
AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS AMENDMENT, THE PERSON WHO
ACQUIRED THE DANGEROUS ORDNANCE IN QUESTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH
DIVISION (C)(1) OF THIS SECTION SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION PURSUANT
TO SECTION 2923.181 OF THE REVISED CODE FOR A LICENSE TO HAVE AND
CARRY IT AND THE APPLICATION HAS NOT BEEN DENIED OR A VALID
LICENSE HAS BEEN ISSUED TO THE PERSON.
     (D)  DIVISIONS (A)(1) AND (2) OF THIS SECTION DO NOT APPLY
TO THE ACQUISITION, HAVING, CARRYING, OR USING OF ANY DANGEROUS
ORDNANCE DESCRIBED IN DIVISION (k)(7) OF SECTION 2923.11 OF THE
REVISED CODE THAT WAS ACQUIRED PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF
THIS AMENDMENT.
     (E)  Whoever violates this section is quilty of unlawful
possession of dangerous ordnance, a AN AGGRAVATED felony of the
FIRST degree.
     Sec. 2923.181.  (A)  ANY PERSON WHO ACQUIRED A MILITARY
WEAPON BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION SHALL FILE A
WRITTEN APPLICATION FOR A LICENSE TO HAVE AND CARRY THE MILITARY
WEAPON WITH THE SHERIFF OF THE COUNTY OR SAFETY DIRECTOR OR
POLICE CHIEF OF THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATION WHERE THE APPLICANT
RESIDES OR HAS HIS PRINCIPAL PLACE OF BUSINESS.  THE APPLICATION
SHALL BE FILED NO LATER THAN THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE SEVENTH
DAY AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION AND SHALL BE
ACCOMPANIED BY A FILING FEE OF FIFTY DOLLARS.  THE PERSON SHALL
FILE A SEPARATE APPLICATION AND PAY A SEPARATE FILING FEE FOR
EACH MILITARY WEAPON THAT HE HAS OR INTENDS TO CARRY.  THE
APPLICATION SHALL CONTAIN ALL OF THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:
     (1)  THE NAME, AGE, ADDRESS, OCCUPATION, AND BUSINESS
ADDRESS OF THE APPLICANT, IF THE APPLICANT IS A NATURAL PERSON,
OR THE NAME, ADDRESS, AND PRINCIPAL PLACE OF BUSINESS OF THE
APPLICANT, IF THE APPLICANT IS A CORPORATION;
     (2)   A DESCRIPTION OF THE MILITARY WEAPON FOR WHICH A
LICENSE IS REQUESTED, INCLUDING THE SERIAL NUMBER AND ALL
IDENTIFICATION MARKS;
     (3)  A STATEMENT OF THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH THE MILITARY
WEAPON WAS ACQUIRED AND FOR WHICH IT IS TO BE POSSESSED, CARRIED,
OR USED;
     (4)  ANY OTHER INFORMATION THAT THE ISSUING AUTHORITY MAY
REQUIRE IN GIVING EFFECT TO THIS SECTION;
     (5)  THE OATH OF THE APPLICANT THAT THE INFORMATION ON THE
APPLICATION IS TRUE.
     (B)(1)  NO LATER THAN THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE
FOURTEENTH DAY AFTER AN APPLICATION FOR A LICENSE TO HAVE AND
CARRY A MILITARY WEAPON HAS BEEN FILED UNDER DIVISION (A) OF THIS
SECTION, THE ISSUING AUTHORITY SHALL EITHER APPROVE THE
APPLICATION AND ISSUE A LICENSE TO THE APPLICANT OR DENY THE
APPLICATION AND SEND A LETTER OF DENIAL BY ORDINARY MAIL TO THE
APPLICANT.  AFTER CONDUCTING ANY NECESSARY INVESTIGATION, THE
ISSUING AUTHORITY SHALL ISSUE A LICENSE TO AN APPLICANT WHOM IT
DETERMINES SATISFIES THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:
     (a)  THE APPLICANT IS TWENTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER, IF
THE APPLICANT IS A NATURAL PERSON;
     (b)  IT APPEARS THAT THE APPLICANT WILL POSSESS AND CARRY
THE MILITARY WEAPON AS A COLLECTOR'S ITEM OR FOR A LEGITIMATE,
SCIENTIFIC, EDUCATIONAL, INDUSTRIAL, OR OTHER PROPER PURPOSE;
     (c)  IT APPEARS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SUFFICIENT
COMPETENCE TO HAVE AND CARRY THE MILITARY WEAPON AND THAT PROPER
PRECAUTIONS WILL BE TAKEN TO ENSURE THE SECURITY OF THE MILITARY
WEAPON AND THE SAFETY OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY;
     (d)  THE APPLICANT OTHERSWISE IS NOT PROHIBITED BY LAW FROM
HAVING OR CARRYING DANGEROUS ORDNANCE.
     (2)  A LICENSE ISSUED PURSUANT TO DIVISION (B)(1) OF THIS
SECTION SHALL BE VALID FOR ONE YEAR AFTER THE DATE OF ITS
ISSUANCE.  THE LICENSE SHALL BE RENEWED PURSUANT TO DIVISION
(C) OF THIS SECTION.
     (C)(1)  EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN DIVISION (C)(3) OF THIS
SECTION, ANY PERSON WHO IS ISSUED A LICENSE UNDER DIVISION (B)(1)
OF THIS SECTION SHALL RENEW THE LICENSE BY FILING AN APPLICATION
FOR RENEWAL BY REGULAR MAIL WITH THE SHERIFF OF THE COUNTY OR THE
SAFETY DIRECTOR OR POLICE CHIEF OF THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATION WHO
WAS THE ISSUING AUTHORITY OF THE LICENSE.  AN APPLICATION FOR
RENEWAL SHALL BE FILED ANNUALLY NO LATER THAN ONE YEAR AFTER THE
DATE ON WHICH THE LICENSE WAS ISSUED OR LAST RENEWED.
     (2)  EACH SHERIFF AND EACH SAFETY DIRECTOR AND PEACE OFFICER
OF A MUNICIPAL CORPORATION SHALL MAKE AVAILABLE APPLICATIONS FOR
THE RENEWAL OF A LICENSE ISSUED UNDER DIVISION (B)(1) OF THIS
SECTION.  IN THE APPLICATION THE APPLICANT, UNDER OATH, SHALL
UPDATE THE INFORMATION SUBMITTED IN THE PREVIOUS APPLICATION FOR
A LICENSE OR THE RENEWAL OF A LICENSE.
     THE APPLICATION FOR THE RENEWAL OF A LICENSE SHALL BE
ACCOMPANIED BY A FEE OF FIVE DOLLARS.  THE APPLICANT SHALL FILE A
SEPERATE APPLICATION FOR RENEWAL AND PAY A SEPERATE RENEWAL FEE
FOR EACH MILITARY WEAPON THAT HE INTENDS TO CONTINUE TO HAVE AND
CARRY.
     (3)  A PERSON WHO HAS CHANGED HIS RESIDENCE OR PRINCIPAL
PLACE OF BUSINESS TO A LOCATION OUTSIDE OF THE JURISDICTION OF
THE ISSUING AUTHORITY SUBSEQUENT TO THE ISSUANCE OR RENEWAL OF A
LICENSE UNDER THIS SECTION SHALL RENEW HIS LICENSE BY FILING AN
APPLICATION IN THE MANNER PRESCRIBED BY DIVISION (A) OF THIS
SECTION WITH THE SHERIFF OF THE COUNTY OR THE SAFETY DIRECTOR OR
POLICE CHIEF OF THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATION WHERE HE THEN RESIDES
OR HAS HIS PRINCIPAL PLACE OF BUSINESS.  WHEN MAKING AN
APPLICATION TO RENEW A LICENSE AFTER A CHANGE IN RESIDENCE OR
PLACE OF BUSINESS, THE APPLICANT SHALL GIVE NOTICE OF THE CHANGE
OF ADDRESS BY REGULAR MAIL TO THE ORIGINAL ISSUING AUTHORITY FOR
THE LICENSE AND THE STATE FIRE MARSHALL ON NOTIFICATION FORMS
PRESCRIBED BY THE SHERIFF, SAFETY DIRECTOR, OR POLICE CHIEF FROM
WHOM HE SEEKS RENEWAL.
     (D)  A LICENSE TO HAVE AND CARRY A MILITARY WEAPON SHALL
IDENTIFY THE PERSON TO WHOM IT IS ISSUED, IDENTIFY THE MILITARY
WEAPON FOR WHICH IT IS ISSUED, STATE THE PURPOSE IDENTIFIED IN
DIVISION (B)(1)(b) OF THIS SECTION FOR WHICH THE MILITARY WEAPON
WILL BE POSSESSED AND CARRIED, STATE ITS EXPIRATION DATE, AND
LIST ALL RESTRICTIONS ON THE HAVING OR CARRYING OF THE MILITARY
WEAPON AS PRESCRIBED BY THE LAWS OF THIS STATE AND APPLICABLE
FEDERAL LAW.
     (E)  ANY PERSON WHO IS ISSUED A LICENSE TO HAVE AND CARRY A
MILITARY WEAPON UNDER THIS SECTION AND WHO CHANGES HIS ADDRESS
SHALL NOTIFY THE ISSUING AUTHORITY OF THE CHANGE OF HIS ADDRESS
NO LATER THAN NINETY DAYS AFTER THE CHANGE HAS OCCURRED.
     (F)  THE ISSUING AUTHORITY SHALL FORWARD TO THE STATE FIRE
MARSHALL A COPY OF EACH LICENSE ISSUED OR RENEWED UNDER THIS
SECTION.  THE STATE FIRE MARSHALL SHALL KEEP A PERMANENT FILE OF
ALL LICENSES ISSUED OR RENEWED UNDER THIS SECTION.
     (G)  THE ISSUING AUTHORITY SHALL CAUSE EACH APPLICATION FEE
OF FIFTY DOLLARS, FILED UNDER DIVISION (A) OF THIS SECTION, TO BE
DEPOSITED IN THE GENERAL FUND OF THE COUNTY OR MUNCIPAL
CORPORATION SERVED BY THE ISSUING AUTHORITY.  THE ISSUING
AUTHORITY SHALL CAUSE TWO DOLLARS AND FIFTY CENTS OF EACH RENEWAL
FEE, FILED UNDER DIVISION (C) OF THIS SECTION, TO BE DEPOSITED IN
THE GENERAL FUND OF THE COUNTY OR MUNICIPAL CORPORATION SERVED BY
THE ISSUING AUTHORITY AND SHALL SEND TWO DOLLARS AND FIFTY CENTS
OF EACH RENEWAL FEE TO THE TREASURER OF STATE FOR DEPOSIT IN THE
STATE TREASURY TO THE CREDIT OF THE GENERAL REVENUE FUND.
     (H)  WHOEVER VIOLATES DIVISION (A) OF THIS SECTION IS
GUILTY OF FAILING TO APPLY FOR THE LICENSURE OF A MILITARY
WEAPON, A FELONY OF THE FOURTH DEGREE.  WHOEVER VIOLATES DIVISION
(C) OF THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF FAILING TO APPLY FOR RENEWAL OF
A LICENSE FOR A MILITARY WEAPON, A MISDEMEANOR OF THE FIRST
DEGREE.
     (I)  A MILITARY WEAPON THAT IS NOT LICENSED AS REQUIRED BY
THIS SECTION IS CONTRABAND, AS DEFINED IN SECTION 2901.01 OF THE
REVISED CODE AND IS SUBJECT TO FORFEITURE UNDER SECTION 2933.43
OF THE  REVISED CODE.
     SEC. 2933.20.  (A)  No person shall DO ANY OF THE
FOLLOWING:
     (1)  IMPORT, MANUFACTURE, POSSESS FOR SALE, SELL, OR
FURNISH TO ANY PERSON ANY MILITARY WEAPON;
     (2)  Recklessly sell, lend, give, or furnish any firearm to
any person prohibited by section 2923.13 or 2923.15 of the
Revised Code from acquiring or using any firearm, or recklessly
sell, lend, give, or furnish any dangerous ordnance to any person
prohibited by section 2923.13, 2923.15, or 2923.17 of the Revised
Code from acquiring or using any dangerous ordnance;
     (3)  Possess any firearm or dangerous ordnance with
purpose to dispose of it in violation of division (A) of this
section;
     (4)  Manufacture, possess for sale, sell, or furnish to
any person other than a law enforcement agency for authorized use
in police work, any brass knuckles, cestus, billy, blackjack,
sandbag, switchblade knife, springblade knife, gravity knife, or
similar weapon;
     (5)  When transferring any dangerous ordnance to
another, negligently fail to require the transferes to exhibit
ANY identification, license, or permit showing him to be
authorized to acquire dangerous ordnance pursuant to section
2923.17 of the Revised Code, or negligently fail to take a
complete record of the transaction and forthwith forward a copy
of THE record to the sheriff of the county or safety
director or police chief of the municipality where the
transaction takes place;
     (6)  Knowingly fail to report to law enforcement
authorities forthwith the loss or theft of any firearm or
dangerous ordnance in such person's possession or under his
control.
     (b)  Whoever violates this section is quilty of unlawful
transactions in weapons.  Violation of division (A)(1) OF THIS
SECTION IS AN AGGRAVATED FELONY OF THE FIRST DEGREE.  VIOLATION
OF DIVISION (A)(2) OR (3) Oof this section is a felony of the
third degree.  Violation of division (A) (4) OR (5) of this
section is a misdemeanor of the second degree.  Violation of
division (6) of this section is a midemeanor of the fourth
degree.
     Section 2.  That existing section 2923.11, 2923.17 and
2923.20 of the Revised Code are hereby repealed.
     Section 3.  This act is hereby declared to be an emergency
measure necessary for the immediate preservation of the public
peace, health, and safety.  The reason for this necessity is that
with immediate action, this act will prohibit the continued
purchase, possession, and use of military weapons and as a result
will ameliorate a substantial threat of death and injury to the
public caused by the misuse of improper use of these weapons.
Therefore, this act shall go into immediate effect.


Just wondering if anyone had info/experience with a video/fpu for a mac LC,
just thinking of adding a second monitor, most likely grayscale.


I have tried almost everything under the sun to get a null modem connection
between a Mac Duo 210 and a PC. I have used MacKermit and VersaTerm on
the Mac side. I have used Procomm, Kermit, and Softerm (on OS/2) on
the PC (or PS) side. I have used non-Hardware handshaking and hardware
ahdshaking cables. And know MY hands are shaking from the effort. Nothing
has allowed file transfers from the Mac to the PS.

In general, I can type back and forth with no trouble, but only if both sides
are set to speeds OVER 9600 baud. I cannot send files from the Mac to the
PS at all, and file transfers from the Duo to the PS are not possible.
When I do a straight ascii send, I can send from the PS to the Duo flawlessly.
I can send Binhex files this way quite fast, and I know that the
transmission is error free.
But straight ascii sent from the Mac to the PS is full of errors.
Unless, of course, I do text pacing so slow that it is like human
typing. (well, like 2-3 times faster than human typing).

I would like to hear from ANYONE who has been able to transfer files
from a Duo 210 to a PS via modem or null modem. If you can do it, please
tell me your EXACT combination of hardware and software. Obviously, I am
talking of a true serial port modem, not the express modem. Maybe some
kind soul with access to a modem and a Duo 210 can check this out for me.

Right now, I am of the opinion that it won't work at high speeds because
of the power interrupts on the Duo, and it won't work at low speeds
because of some crazy reason I don't understand.

Could I hear from someone attesting that they can really pump information
out the serial port of a Duo 210 fast? Like via a modem or via a
sys-ex dump?

Could anyone with a Duo help me out?? I am going absolutely INSANE.
I wanna know if the problem is MY Duo, or all Duo 210s, or all Duos,
or just me.

Yes, I have checked the cable 1,000,000 times. And not only can I type
back and forth, but Zterm alerts the users if s/he uses hardware handshaking
and CTS is down. So I know that hardware handshaking is working. And also,
According to Zterm port stats, the buffer never overflows.

Please help me figure out what's going on...


:Of course, one again faces the question of how one circumscribes government
:power (and keeps it circumscribed) in a complex society when it is in the
:interest of neither capitalists nor consumers to refrain from using
:government power for their own ends.  But apart from that little
:conundrum...
	Without having a complete answer to this question,  I should think
it obvious that the first step should be to convince people this would be
a desirable result.  There are still quite a lot of people who feel that
the command economies of eastern Europe failed due to corruption rather than
essential weaknesses of caommand economies,  and you still have a majority
in this nation that favors keeping unenforced and unenforcible laws on
the books in order to "send a signal".

:It would seem that a society with a "failed" government would be an ideal
:setting for libertarian ideals to be implemented.  Now why do you suppose
:that never seems to occur?...

I fail to see why you should feel this way in the first place.  Constant
combat isn't particularly conducive to intellectual theorizing.  Also,
they tend to get invaded before they can come to anything like a stable
society anyway.

:I wouldn't call it "vague."  I'd call it elastic.  All "regulation" is
:not necessarily the same.  By opposing all government regulation, some
:libertarians treat every system from a command economy to those that
:regulate relatively free markets as identical.  That's one reason
:many of the rest of us find their analysis to be simplistic.

Umm, is there any distinction between "vague" and "elastic" in this
context aside from one having a more positive connotation than the other?

At any rate,  we've been through all this before.

:Steve Hendricks                        |  DOMAIN:  steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM
:"One thing about data, it sure does cut|  UUCP:    ...!uunet!isc-br!thor!steveh
: the bulls**t." - R. Hofferbert        |  Ma Bell: 509 838-8826

Incidentally,  this is a libertarian newsgroup,  you can get away with
saying,  "bullshit" here.   You're welcome,


I am looking for shanghai, solitaire game with mahjongg tiles
for PC's.  if you have a copy laying around, send email to:

richg@sequent.com

thanks,


When I left, it was 4-3, Blues with 2:00 to go!  As I predicted in
"@#$%! I was right in the first place!!!"  Blues in 6!  YES!!!

Of course it's only one game -- that could be the 'Hawks stab in the face to
wake them up -- that's what playoffs are about, on any given day... :-)


critus


These new rule changes are great!  However, I think that your rules are
MUCH too complicated.  How will the normal average fan be able to count
how many fouls a player has?  And then we would even have to remember the
names of the players, in order to determine who drew the foul!  And, of
course, there will have to be new "sub-positions", like the power center
who just sits in the slot until the (blue, of course) puck comes near him,
and the "shooting defenseman" and the "point defenseman".  Finally, we'll
be able to keep stats on the best and the worst penalty-shot takers.
Since almost everyone on the ice will be getting fouled, we'll be able to
see Ulf Samuellson (sp?) and Tie Domi miss penalty shots like crazy.

;-) ;-) ;-)

--
    Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
						LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
	kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!


Forwarded from Doug Griffith, Magellan Project Manager

                        MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT
                            April 16, 1993

1.  The Magellan mission at Venus continues normally, gathering gravity
data which provides measurement of density variations in the upper
mantle which can be correlated to surface topography.  Spacecraft
performance is nominal.

2.  Magellan has completed 7225 orbits of Venus and is now 39 days from
the end of Cycle-4 and the start of the Transition Experiment.

3.  No significant activities are expected next week, as preparations
for aerobraking continue on schedule.


Be sure a dietician is up to date on Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis.
Previously, low residue diets were recommended, but this advice has
now changed.  Also, there will be differences in advice in patients with
and without obstructuon remaining, so input by the physician will be
important.  I find the dietician very important in my practice, and
I send most of my patients to a dietician in the course of seeing
them, since dieticians know so much better how to get diet histories
and evaluate the contents of a diet than I do.


Here at Lewis and Clark College we have recently installed a Digital Film
system (based on the Mac Quadra) that does non-linear, full digital editing.

If you're considering such a system, here are the pros and cons:

For the educational environment, this system is excellent.  We use it to
produce a variety of educational materials for disemination on our local
network.  Because this programming is going to be viewed on other Macs, the
image quality is not as important as the ability to directly export the
video to the Net.

We also use it to produce orientiation and promotional video programs for
use by the Lewis & Clark community.  Since these programs are not meant for
commercial or broadcast use, image quality is not critical.

The Digital Film system, for those of you who are uninitiated, is an A/B roll
digitizing system on one $5000 JPEG compression card.  It was promoted as
an inexpensive online editing system with SVHS quality.  SuperMac, the maker
of the card, is trying to achieve this quality level, but as yet, has been
unable to deliver.  Our system produces "near VHS" quality at 30 fields per
second (640x480 overscan).  The card repeats every other field to get 60
fields per second.  This results in a kind of Super 8 film look that some
find distracting.

If you can get past this problem, you'll find the Adobe Premier editing
software quite enjoyable with which to work.  It produces thousands of
different effects from crystalize filters to DVE transitions to color matting.

Because of its non-linear nature, editing is fast and easy.  If you've ever
used (or seen used) an AVID or Montage system, you'll recognize the methodology
and the user interface.

The total system with Quadra 950 (40Megs of RAM), 1 gig drive, 21" Apple mon-
itor, Panasonic SVHS 1960 edit deck, audio gear (cassette, CD, EQ, mixer, etc),
Composite monitor, Digital Film card will set you back about $20,000.

For you video cowboys and girls, this system will not output at a quality
that will satisfy most of your clients.  Even though you can perform more
effects than a toasterhead can imagine, an Amiga based off-line based system
will look better.

We use both Macs and Amigas for our video work.  Each for what each does best!


	This sounds like a VERY good thing to do.

	I will now, whenever I don't have my handy-dandy automatic coin
fetcher/toll payer (Annette :-) with me.

	Thanks for the tip.

Later,


: As a new BMW owner I was thinking about signing up for the MOA, but
: right now it is beginning to look suspiciously like throwing money
: down a rathole.

i concur with this.

the politics and bickering going on has
ruined BMWMOA to me.  because of the
politics and fighting, i'm i'm going to
let my current membership lapse when it's
up for renewal.

-- hesh


I don't meant to defend Eric Molas- I find it somewhat annoying when
someone pops up on alt.atheism to tell us all about his (usually
atheistic) beliefs, so I can certainly see how Christians might be
annoyed- but I'd like to point out a few things.

"no meaning from God" is not the same as "no meaning". From my (atheistic)
point of view, if you want meaning in your life, you get to go and
get some or make some.

No free gifts of meaning. (I never quite understood how any
God can just "give" your life meaning, actually. If he
says you exists to do or be X, that gives you a purpose
if you care to accept it, but is that the same thing? But
I digress...)

This would truely be a miserably existance, which I doubt Eric
endures. Life can be enjoyable, so you can live it because you like
it, or purposefull, so you can live it to get something done. One should
endeavour to make it so, if it is not. Otherwise it would be as you say.
Terrible.

Probably true. Remeber he almost certainly sees that particular joy as
an illusion, and does not want it. So maybe it isn't so bad?

As an atheist, I am free to be a human person. I think, love, choose,
and create.

Ah, now here we begin to diverge. I will not live forever
with anyone.

(I don't think you will either, but you are welcome to your
opinion on the matter.)

I tend to agree with you.

It's my opinion that (unlike drugs) religions are normal
parts of human societies.

I think they have outlived their usefullness, but they
are evidently quite ordinary, normal things that haven't
proved lethal to humanity yet.

I have heard this claim quite a few times. Does anybody here know
who first came up with the "God-shaped hole" business?

You might want to provide some evidence next time you make a claim
like this.

I don't know Eric, but I do not think it is wise to assume he has a less
joy-filled and abundant life because he holds certain beliefs.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this irrelevant?

Either the data shows something, or it doesn't. Regardless of what other
studies show.

Admit it. What you SHOWED to us doesn't prove that gay men are more likely
to be molesters.

Brian


Looking at historical evidence such 'perfect utopian' islamic states
didn't survive. I agree, people are people, and even if you might
start an Islamic revolution and create this perfect state, it takes
some time and the internal corruption will destroy the ground rules --
again.

Cheers,
Kent


There is or was a microwave tower next to Florida's Turnpike, and you
could watch the cars hit the breaks as they came in sight of it every
morning...


The parable of the Prodigal Son is not about who is and who isn't an
immoral person. It is about grace and the love of God. Most people
would agree with that concerning the younger son. The elder son is
simply a negative example of the some thing. He thinks that he must
earn his father's love, that he has earned it, that he is entitled
to it. His father tells him that he is on the wrong track. He has always
been loved--for the same reason his brother has always been: he is
his father's son.

We are too performance oriented to consistently get the point. We are
willing to be saved by grace, but once we are Christians we want to
go back to earning and deserving.

"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying
 to attain your goal by human effort?" Gal 3:3 NIV


We're all set to buy one of these for the office, to use for scanning in
color photographs and for optical character recognition.  We've played with
the original grayscale OneScanner and were very pleased.  Is the color model
comparable in quality?

Also, what brand of OCR software would you recommend?  We're leaning toward
Caere OmniPage.  Any better ideas?  Thanks.


Like most high-volume manufacturers, Adcom has most of its PC boards
assembled off-shore (in their case, mostly in the far east).  Final
assembly _and testing_ are done in East Brunswick.

The products are, and have always been, designed entirely in the US;
by their own staff and by audiophile gurus like Walter Jung.  Adcom
also tends to prefer American and European components over their
Japanese/Far East equivalents.

Off-shore assembly is one reason that Adcom is able to make products
that perform as well as those from people like Audio Research and Van
Alstine (and better than Hafler and Forte'), but at a much lower cost.

Of course, if your musical diet consists mostly of Rock, you might
prefer components from Kenwood or Pioneer...


Absolutely, unless you are in the U.S.  Then the cager will pull a gun
and blow you away.


Mark Singer brings up the Strawberry Incident, where he lost a homerun
and the fan caught it.

Yes, I think he should have done more to get out of the way.  As much
as fans want to catch a ball, they really should be aware that winning
the game is more important.  As a Dodger fan, he has to be aware that
this is the home stadium, and that entails helping the home team win
in any way possible.  As soon as the ball was hit that far, his first
instinct should be to root for Darryl to catch it, not to try to catch
it himself, particularly when he is sitting that close.

I enjoy the attitude of the Wrigley fans, where they are against
visiting team home runs so much, they actually throw them back on the
field.

Now, this has nothing to do with whether Darryl could have caught it or
not.  Sure, he probably screwed up, but the fan should realize his
first responsibility is to get out of the way and help the team win.


A typical example of seep-minded thinking. We all know that David
Sternlight is a jerk, but I'm afraid that in this case 90% of the
population will think like him. Realize it guys - NSA, Dorothy
Denning, and the US government have already won the battle...

Unless... unless you succeed to wake up the people... but nah, that's
too unlikely... The events are happening too fast, cryptography is a
too sophisticated issue, and almost nobody cares anyway... A few
thousand of net.readers won't make the difference, if millions are
caught asleep... Too sad... :-(((((

Regards,
Vesselin


If you are interested in receiving the final player stats for
the 1992-1993 NHL Season as well as playoff box scores, stats and
scores/updates...
then e-mail my stat server

mmilitzo@skidmore.edu


Farr's ERA is in the


With everyone bitching about the hockey coverage by ESPN its almost like the
Detroit-Toronto game was not televised last nite.  I was just thankful to see
hockey on a night that it wasn't supposed to be carried.  Thanks to ESPN, no
matter why they televised the game


If a X-window package exists, that runs om PC, DOS (and maybe MS-windows)
I would be very happy to hear about it.

Thanx in advance.


There is another way to view this.  The True Celebration is Easter,
the Resurrection of Our Lord.  This has been true from the foundation
of the world.  Pagan practices are then either:

1. foreshadowings of the True Celebration of the Resurrection,
   in which dim light was shone forth so that people would
   recognize the full truth when it was manifested, OR

2. satanic counterfeits intended to deceive us so that we would not
   recognize the truth when it was manifested.

I don't believe the second argument, because I believe in the power
of the Resurrection, the fulfillment of the Incarnation, and our hope.
Earlier or parallel ideas in other religions clearly are dim images of
the truth of the Resurrection.  As Paul states, we see through a glass
darkly.  So do others.  It serves no purpose arguing about who has
the darker or lighter glass.  The foreshadowings are not perfect.
So what? Our understnding of God is today imperfect, for we are not
yet perfected.  Theosis is not a gift such that WHAM, we're perfect.

Larry Overacker (llo@shell.com)
--


I have a 512k VRAM chip for sale. Worked fine in my LCII and will give 256
colors on 640 x 480 size screen. Asking $50. I'll cover postage. Speaking
of which, does anyone know what the best way to send a chip is. I have a
plastic antistatic sleeve, but what's the best way to send it? In an
envelope? First class? All info appreciated.


A book that I can somewhat recommend is :

                     Pratical Image Processing in C
                     by Craig A. Lindley
                     published by Wiley


First of all, the original poster misquoted.  The reference is from 2 Tim 3:16.
The author was Paul, and his revelations were anything but "(at best)
second-hand".

	"And is came about that as [Saul] journeyed, he was approaching
	 Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and
	 he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul,
	 why are you persecuting Me?"  And he said, "Who art Thou, Lord?"  And
	 He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, . . ."
		(Acts 9:3-5, NAS)

Paul received revelation directly from the risen Jesus!  (Pretty cool, eh?)  He
became closely involved with the early church, the leaders of which were
followers of Jesus throughout his ministry on earth.

I agree.  I don't believe anyone but the Spirit would be able to convince you
the Spirit exists.  Please don't complain about this being circular.  I know
it is, but really, can anything of the natural world explain the supernatural?
(This is why revelation is necessary to the authors of the Bible.)

The Spirit is part of God.  How much closer to the source can you get?
The Greek in 2 Timothy which is sometimes translated as "inspired by God",
literally means "God-breathed".  In other words, God spoke the actual words
into the scriptures.  Many theologians and Bible scholars (Dr. James Boice is
one that I can remember off-hand) get quite annoyed by the dryness and
incompleteness of "inspired by God".

That's what the verse taken from 2 Timothy was all about.  The continuity of a
book written over a span of 1500 years by more than 40 authors from all walks
of life is a testimony to the single authorship of God.

What source to you claim to have discovered which has information of superior
historicity to the Bible?  Certainly not Josephus' writings, or the writings
of the Gnostics which were third century, at the earliest.

Jesus was fully God as well.  That's why I'd assert that he is wise.

Please rethink this last paragraph.  If there is no God, which seems to be your
current belief, then Jesus was either a liar or a complete nut because not
only did he assert that God exists, but he claimed to be God himself!  (regards
to C.S. Lewis)  How then could you have the least bit of respect for Jesus?
	In conclusion, be careful about logically unfounded hypotheses based
on gut feelings about the text and other scholars' unsubstantiated claims.
The Bible pleads that we take it in its entirety or throw the whole book out.
	About your reading of the Bible, not only does the Spirit inspire the
writers, but he guides the reader as well.  We cannot understand it in the
least without the Spirit's guidance:

	"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit
	searches all things, even the depths of God."  (1 Cor 2:10, NAS)

Peace and may God guide us in wisdom.

+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=
Carter C. Page           | Of happiness the crown and chiefest part is wisdom,
A Carpenter's Apprentice | and to hold God in awe.  This is the law that,
cpage@seas.upenn.edu     | seeing the stricken heart of pride brought down,
                         | we learn when we are old.  -Adapted from Sophocles
+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=+-=-+-=+-=-+=-+-=-+-=-+=-+-=


I thought it was 1) wins 2) goals for.


I believe that E-Machines might produce something of this nature.


About a year ago I started work on a problem that appeared to
be very simple and turned out to be quite difficult.  I am wondering if
anyone on the net has seen this problem and (hopefully) some published
solutions to it.

	The problem is to draw an outline of a surface defined by two
roughly parallel cubic splines.  For inputs the problem essentially
starts with two sets of points where each set of points is on the
edge of an object which we treat as two dimensional, i.e. only extant
between the edges, but which exists in three dimensional space.  To draw
the object we

1) fit a cubic spline through the points.  Each spline is effectively
	computed as a sequence of line segments approximating the
        curve.  Each spline has an equal number of segments.  We assume
	that the nth segment along each spline is roughly, but not
	exactly, the same distance along each spline by any reasonable
	measure.
2) Take each segment (n) along each spline and match it to the nth segment
	of the opposing spline.  Use the pair of segments to form two
	triangles which will be filled in to color the surface.
3) Depth sort the triangles
4) Take each triangle in sorted order, project onto a 2D pixmap, draw
	and color the triangle.  Take the edge of the triangle that is
	along the edge of the surface and draw a line along that edge
	colored with a special "edge color"

	It is the edge coloring in step 4 that is at the heart of the
problem.  The idea is to effectively outline the edge of the surface.
The net result however generally has lots of breaks and gaps in
the edge of the surface.  The reasons for this are fairly complicated.
They involve both rasterization problems and problems resulting
from the projecting the splines.  If anything about this problem
sounds familiar we would appreciate knowing about other work in this
area.


This is not borne out of reality; the old Soviet Union had a very
serious domestic handgun and submachinegun trade, guns that were
of commercial grade because they were produced in honest-to-goodness
machineshops. Why would all production have to be local; don't we
have a road system that is the envy of the world?

I seem to recall incidents in the past where Chinese entreprenaurs
attempted to smuggle AK-47s (semi-autos) into this country to
get around import number limitations (May have been Gunweek where
I read that years ago...)

Any person with high-school drafting skills and vocational school
machineshop training could produce a submachinegun. You talk about
the average person not being able get even a zip-gun; well now, think
of all that private CNC controlled machinery that is not being used for
3 shifts a day; do you think that if guns were being sold on the
black market for say, $150, an enterprising mechanical engineer
could be using that machinery to produce workable submachineguns
for sale? After all, GUNWEEK had an article and pictures on how BATF
was looking for the manufacturer of quite efficient silencers that
were of commercial quality and finish.


They have a few problems. The biggest technical problem is the need to find
two satellites going to the same rough orbit for a luanch.

They also don't show much interest in commercial launches. There is more
money to be made churning out Titan IV's for the government. After all,
it isn't every day you find a sucker, er, customer who thinks paying
three times the commercial rate for launch services is a good idea!

  Allen


I have a 41M IDE HD forsale or trade.  I would like to trade it if possible.

HD
- 41M
- IDE Westren Digital
- No errors or bad sectors
- 13.8ms access time
- 855 kilobytes per second transfer rate
- working in my computer right now.

LOOKING FOR IN A TRADE MAYBE
- SEGA Genesis
- a pair of Sub Woffers
- Souround Sound Stereo/Reciever
- ANY KIND OF ELECTORNIC EQUIPMENT (IF YOU HAVE ELECTORINIC EQUIPMENT I LIKE
                                    ALMOST ANY KIND OF COMPUTRER, CAR, OR HOME
                                    EQUIPMENT, -- IF YOU WANT TO MAKE AN OFFER
                                    ON A TRADE LET ME KNOW. --CD PLAYER ..ect)

Please if you are interested in a trade let me know.

email ------ rogess@sage.cc.purdue.edu


I followed up without a thought of double-checking...if I double-checked
every fact people vomited onto the table here on the net, I'd never have
time to sleep.  But to pass the buck to the person who originally posted
that quote...

...well, Michael?  Take it away!  (wild applause)

Drewcifer


One more time.

It ain't about duck hunting.

It ain't about lone perps on lonely streets.

It's about DEFENDING OUR RIGHTS from the *GOVERNMENT*, which
has seen fit to ignore history and attempt once again to take
them from us.  They WILL SUCCEED if we don't do something NOW.

That's why I think the NRA is a bunch of WEENIES, because they
have FORGOTTEN that fundamental fact.

Pardon all my shouting, but there seem to be a whole helluva lot
of people on Condition White, fat, dumb, and happy, sucking that
glass teat for all they're worth.... Wake up and smell the cordite,
gang, they're shooting at us, and it's high time we shot back,
at least with our keyboards.....

my two bits'


Moreover, the BATF has admitted having agents in the compound, and as
far as I have been able to ascertain, those agents were still in the
compound when the first shots were fired.  For all we know, these two
people may BE the agents, who would certainly be unlikely to stay around
and "cook" with the faithful...

Assuming the two people in question were even in the compound at all.

Maybe I sound paranoid, but I watched Janet Reno last night harping on
how much David Koresh was a big, bad child abuser, and I kept wondering
why she -- much less BATF -- wanted us to infer that she had any
jurisdiction over such accusations in the first place.

I'm POSITIVE that the "sealed warrant" is not for child abuse.  What was
it for?  Peobably weapons violations.  Janet Reno didn't say WORD ONE
last night about weapons violations.  Why?  Because she knows that such
a case is no longer believable?
--


This is a general question for US readers:

How extensive is the playoff coverage down there?  In Canada, it is almost
impossible not to watch a series on TV (ie the only two series I have not had
an opportunity to watch this year are Wash-NYI and Chi-Stl, the latter because
I'm in the wrong time zone!).  We (in Canada) are basically swamped with
coverage, and I wonder how many series/games are televised nationally or even
locally in the US and how much precedence they take over, say, local news if
the games go into double-OT.

Email me so as not to waste bandwidth, please.  My news feed is kind of slow
anyways.


Then Mr Mozumder is incorrect when he says that when committing
bad acts, people temporarily become atheists?


As usual, you are missing the whole point, Russell, because you are not
willing to even consider questionning your basic article of faith, which
is that science is merely a matter of methodology and that the highest
purpose of science is to avoid making mistakes.

This is like saying that the most important aspect of business management
is accurate bookkeeping.

If science were no more than methodology and not making mistakes, it
would be a poor thing indeed.  What was the methodology of Darwin?  What
was the methodology of Einstein?  What was, for that matter, the
methodology of Jenner and Pasteur?

First of all, I think you are arguing against a straw man, because I
don't think that anyone here is arguing that quackery, pseudo-science,
homeopathy, chiropracty, and traditional Chinese medicine should be
accepted as science.  I, in particular, think the basic ideas of
homeopathy and chiropracty seem extremely flaky.

What some of us do believe, however, is that some of these things
(including some of the flaky ideas) are deserving of serious scientific
attention.

If in fact it were true, as you have stated above, that those who do not
use the currently fashionable methodology can have no idea what is
effective and what is not, then science today would not exist.  For all
of current science is based on the past work of scientists whose
methodology, by current standards, was seriously flawed.

It is certainly true that as methodology improves, we need to re-examine
those results derived in the past using less perfect methodologies.  It is
also true that the results obtained by people today who still rely on
those early methodologies needs to be re-examined in a more rigorous
fashion by those qualified to do so credibly.

But to say that nobody who fails to do elaborate double-blind studies is
capable of knowing their ass from a hole in the ground and to say that no
ideas that come from outside the scientific establishment could possibly
be worthy of serious investigation ... this truly marks one's attitude as
doctrinaire, cultist.  This attitude is not compatible with a belief in
reason.

--
In the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems
less like a science than a collection of competing religious sects.


I need a small battery powered hi voltage capacitive discharge supply to
deliver ~6 joules at 250 volts. This implies a 200uf cap. I have built
a very satisfactorily operating version from a MAX641, but do not like
the idea of using a $6 single source part. It seems that the ubiquitous
camera flash circuit is what I want, but I cant get mine apart without
breaking it. I would appreciate receiving the circuit description or
a source of one. I have already looked in several electronics circuits
handbooks to no avail. Thanx


does anyone know?

--


Hello...

I wonder if some one can suggest an answer to the following question:
I am a total X novice and would appreciate any suggestions you may have.

I am trying to create a simple drawing tool....

       __________
       |        |
       |     ___|___
       |_____|__|  |
             |	   |
	     |_____|

Let's say I have two rectangles on the canvas(see above)
one intersecting the other...
Now, I would like to delete one of the rectangles.
The way I do it is to create another GC wherein I use the
GXxor logical function and simply redraw the rectangle using the newly
created graphics context thus deleting it for all apparent purposes.
A problem with this approach is that at the points of intersection the pixel
locations belonging to the other rectangle also become white, which is
something that should be avoided.

Is there any way I can avoid this problem without having to redraw the other
rectangle too?
I also would not like to generate an expose event for the affected area
as this degrades performance very badly...


Sorry about that - don't want to alarm anyone...

I don't think there is any correlation between the crashes and PCTools.
I reinstalled Ami Pro, and ran compress again, with no problems.
I think problems may have been related to filling my disk until it had
0 bytes (!) left while FTPing, although I would think it wouldn't
matter since Ami Pro wasn't running at the time, and I made space available
immediately anyways.
But, whatever, the cause, it is working now.


$400included shipping


My mom has just been diagnosed with cystic breast disease -- a big
relief, as it was a lump that could have been cancer.  Her doctor says
she should go off caffeine and chocolate for 6 months, as well as
stopping the estrogen she's been taking for menopause-related reasons.
She's not thrilled with this, I think especially because she just gave
up cigarettes -- soon she won't have any pleasures left!  Now, I thought
I'd heard that cystic breasts were common and not really a health risk.
Is this accurate?  If so, why is she being told to make various
sacrifices to treat something that's not that big of a deal?

Thanks for any information.

-- Chris

--
black@sybase.com


	Sorry, I was, but I somehow have misplaced my diskette from the last
couple of months or so. However, thanks to the efforts of Bobby, it is being
replenished rather quickly!

	Here is a recent favorite:

	--

       "Satan and the Angels do not have freewill.
        They do what god tells them to do. "

        S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu)

--

       "Satan and the Angels do not have freewill.
        They do what god tells them to do. "


Does anyone know what frequencies the wireless transmitter/receiver
microphone systems that Radio Shack sells operate at?  I've tried
everything short of opening one up (not actually owning one makes
this difficult...) and just looking..  Any help would be greatly
appreciated..  These systems are designed for wireless PA systems, etc..

					Thanks,


Using XPutImage, your source is maintained by the client and the
destination is maintained by the server, thus you incur the overhead
of transporting through whatever client-server communications
mechanism you are using.

Is it possible for you to maintain your source images in pixmaps?
These are maintained by the server, so copying them into a window is
much cheaper.

Also make sure you are not sending any unnecessary XSyncs, or running
in XSynchonize mode.
--


I'll third the opinion about this outfit/franchise. Now, when I
buy over the net and pick up the shipping costs, I'll specify that I
only pick up the normal UPS charges (as if delivered directly to
UPS), as I've been burned by $10 shipping charges for a $2.49 pkg.
I will never use a mailing service unless I don't have the
right box and the buyer needs whatever IMMEDIATELY. I'll also
tell the person, if they agreed to pick up shipping, what is going on.

Other things to watch out for/consider:

	The rates are $5 to $30 higher than UPS direct.

	For a non-UPS (truck) package, they quoted a rate
	of $85. Fed Ex economy air was only $85 for the
	same weight! RPS (a trucking package company, in many
	cities) only wanted $18. Guess who got it. The Mailbox
	operator told me I was not telling the truth about
	competitors' rates, said RPS was unreliable (I've used them
	before with NO problems), etc. Right.

	A COD check goes to the mailing service. Our local
	Mailbox then takes its sweet time mailing me the
	remade check. All this for an additional $3.00 over the
	UPS COD charge. What a deal.... :-)

	For packages over $100, they charge you about double over
	what UPS charges them for insurance. I've never had
	a claim, but other netters (is Ralph Seguin out there?)
	have told horror stories about them...

	All package traces have to be done through Mailbox by
	Mailbox.

	Our local Mailbox operator told me I was lying when I
	asked him why their rates were stratospheric compared
	to direct UPS. Does he ever check? Probably not...

	Their UPS ground rates come close to Fed Ex's economy
	air rate, and Fed Ex will pick up!

	UPS will pick up for a $5 charge in most areas!

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
       Dave Medin			Phone:	(205) 730-3169 (w)
    SSD--Networking				(205) 837-1174 (h)
    Intergraph Corp.
       M/S GD3004 		Internet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com
  Huntsville, AL 35894		UUCP:  ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin

   ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******


*** 10 MONTH OLD POLK SYSTEM FOR SALE ***

Excellent condition 10 month old (proof available) Polk Monitor 4.6 bookshelf
speakers are being offered for sale. The are excellent, and sound great. I am
going for a higher model. So I need to sell these speakers. I paid $250 for
the pair of bookshelf speakers. I am willing to consider the best offer.
Send me your offers. E-mail: suraj@cs.jhu.edu.

Also have excellent condition Luxman receiver R-351 and Onkyo tape deck
TA-RW404 for sale. Both are in excellent condition and just 10 months old.
Makes an excellent system. Paid $950 for receiver, tape deck and speakers
10 months back, will consider the best offer. Each piece will be sold
seperately if wanted. E-mail best offer to suraj@cs.jhu.edu


so when is PRODIGY going to open the doors for inetgate to accept
internet mail eh?

obviously if you can post news, mail should go through as well..


I think that's the correct spelling..
	I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow
do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking
that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for
sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly
appreciated.
	In case you don't know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my
knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic
object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns
or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type
of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might
extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within
the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.


I have just been introduced to Macintosh systems.
I have a few questions.  E-mail prefered.

1) Just what is System 7?  I want hard details not dingy commercials
like their ads in magazines...

2) Has anyone used the Microsoft Office 3.0?  I would like
suggestions on, and descriptions on:
* each has a microsoft before the actual name.

a) *Word 5.1:
b) *Excel 4.0:
c) *Power Point:
d) *Mail 3.1

3)  What is the major differences between Mac Wordperfect and Word?


IF you can remember to tuck properly, the bits that are going to take most
punishment with the gear you have will probably be your feet, then hips and
knees. Get boots then  trousers. The gloves come last, as long as you've the
self control to pull your arms in when you tuck. If not, get good gloves
first - Hands are VERY easily wrecked if you put one down to steady your
fall at 70mph!! The other bits heal easier.

Once you are fully covered, you no longer tuck, just lie back and enjoy the
ride.


I have a Macc IIci and a Color scanner.
I scanned a picture at 600 dpi. When I try to print
it on my HP500 color printer, after 10 minutes of
making noise, the mac hangs. I would need to reboot it.
What does this mean? Do I need to buy more memory? I have
5.0 MB now. I also have about 50 MB of disk free, and the
scanned picture is about 12 MB.

---


It's not a cycle.  Free helium will escape from the atmosphere due to
its high velocity.  It won't be practical to recover it.  It has
to be mined.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon."


53 seconds to hash 20M of core (I bet I know who the source of your
information is!). No, it's not acceptable if it's part of your login
process. But if you are going to use network traffic as the source of
pseudo-random information, do the right thing and pass it through a
cryptographic hash function, not a compressor. Aside from the fact
that it will run faster, it will give better results (think of a
cryptographic hash as a function that "distills" randomness).
Something along the lines of
	etherfind -t -x -n  | dd bs=1k count=10 2>/dev/null | md5
should do the trick. -t gives you timestamps, and the lack of -u makes
sure that dd does not get ten lines as opposed to ten K. The above
takes a couple of seconds on a lightly-loaded ethernet.


These substitutes exist, and at this time are available. Its the future
availability that is in doubt.

1) GHG-12

Get it from People's Welding Supply 800-382-9006

2) butane/propane

You can mix this yourself so no one can ever regulate it away.
Just make sure you use good quality (dry) gases.

I don't know of any 200mpg carb distributors :-)


dillon comments that Space Food Sticks may have bad digestive properties.

I don't think so.  I think  most NASA food products were designed to
be low fiber 'zero-residue' products so as to minimize the difficulties
of waste disposal.  I'd doubt they'd deploy anything that caused whole sale
GI distress.  There aren't enough plastic baggies in the world for
a bad case of GI disease.


Les Bartel's comments:

Let me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not
work as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups
identical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same
result. Don't know if this is just a problem with Ford or what??


Hey puppy, you are getting further around the bend every day. But
I wouldn't miss your adolescent ravings for the world, everyone
needs a good laugh now and then. :-)


Off the top of my head, I might try:

Given: p_1, p_2, p_3, p_4

Find:  p_c (center of sphere determined by p_1, ..., p_4),
       dist(p_c, p_i) (radius)

p_c is the same distance from our four points, so
dist(p_c,p_1) = dist(p_c,p_2) = dist(p_c,p_3) = dist(p_c,p_4)

Of course, we can square the whole thing to get rid of square roots:
distsq(p_c,p_1) = distsq(p_c,p_2) = distsq(p_c,p_3) = distsq(p_c,p_4)

Plug in the variables into the distance formula, simplify, and the
x^2_c, y^2_c, and z^2_c terms cancel out, leaving you with three
linearly independent equations and three unknowns (x_c, y_c, z_c).
Solve using your favorite method.  :)

All the best,

- John :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John S. Eickemeyer                 ::     "The Lord God is subtle,
Information Technology Institute      ::::     but malicious He is not."
National Computer Board, Singapore     ::
Email: johne@iti.gov.sg                ::                     - Albert Einstein


responds to a lot of grief given to him
a.k.a. "The Sagemaster"
[ . . .]

Most of Scotty's followup *was* irrelevant to the original question,
but this is not unusual, as threads often quickly evolve away from
the original topic.  What I could not understand is why Jim spent so
much time responding to what he regarded as irrelevancies.

[ . . . ]
[ . . . ]

Well, I guess hypothetical Adam was "the majority of mankind"
seeing how he was the ONLY man at the time.

I understand what you mean by "collective," but I think it is an
insane perversion of justice.  What sort of judge would punish the
descendants for a crime committed by their ancestor?

Well, I must admit that you probably read a.a. more often than I read
the Bible these days.  But you missed a couple of good followups to
your post.  I'm sending you a personal copy of my followup which I
hope you will respond to publically in a.a.


I'm pretty sure that Sandberg has done this at least once.  (I know someone
will correct me if I'm wrong.)

RBIs and Runs scored are the two most important offensive statistics.  You
can talk about OBP and SLG% all you want, but the fact remains:

	The team that scores more runs wins the game!
	---------------------------------------------

Flame Away

-- John Bratt


A person posted certain stuff to this newsgroup, which were highly
selected quotes stripped of their context.  Here is the complete
posting which was quoted (lacking the context of other postings in
which it was made):

Probably within 50 years, it will be possible to disassemble and
re-assemble our bodies at the molecular level.  Not only will flawless
cosmetic surgery be possible, but flawless cosmetic PSYCHOSURGERY.

What will it be like to store all the prices of shelf-priced bar-coded
goods in your head, and catch all the errors they make in the store's
favor at SAFEWAY?  What will it be like to mentally edit and spell-
check your responses to the questions posed by a phone caller selling
VACATION TIME-SHARE OPTIONS?

Indeed, we are today a nation at risk!  The threat is not from bad genes,
but bad memes!  Memes are the basic units of culture, as opposed to genes
which are the units of genetics.

We stand on the brink of new meme-amplification technologies!  Harmful
memes which formerly were restricted in their destructive power will
run rampant over the countryside, laying waste to the real benefits that
future technology has to offer.

For example, Jeremy Rifkin has been busy trying to whip up emotions
against the new genetically engineered tomatoes under development at
CALGENE.  This guy is inventing harmful memes, a virtual memetic Typhoid
Mary.


Greetings baseballers,

	I have a choice of two more or less identical conferences to
attend, one in
Denver, and one in Dallas, both May 24-28. Could some kind Rockies
or Rangers
(they DO play in the Dallas area, right?) fans please let me know if
there
are home dates for that week. I'd love to catch a game.


As far as I know ISDN (call it Swissnet here, and it's being plugged in) it's
8 bit 8000Hz (gives you one channel of 64kBit/sec) I guess you should not go
below a sampling rate of 6000 Hz if you want to have same quality as on an
analog-line. Anybody knows compression-algorithms & -factors for voice ?

Greetings,

	Germano Caronni


Hi!...

I am searching for packages that could handle Multi-page GIF
files...

Are there any on some ftp servers?

I'll appreciate one which works on PC (either on DOS or Windows 3.0/3.1).
But any package works on Unix will be OK..


What are you stupid?


Since the losers that sold me the hard disk for my computer are
so generous, I need the info to set this drive from master to
slave. Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Please reply via e-mail.

Incidentally, avoid purchasing a computer from ACS in Endicott, NY.


You probably need an X server running on top of MS DOS.  I use Desqview/X
but any MS-DOS X server should do.

--


And at least 500% more user unfriendly as well!


It's great that all these other cars can out-handle, out-corner, and out-
accelerate an Integra.

But, you've got to ask yourself one question: do all these other cars have
a moonroof with a sliding sunshade?  No wimpy pop-up sunroofs or power
sliding roofs that are opaque.  A moonroof that can be opened to the air,
closed to let just light in, or shaded so that nothing comes in.

You've just got to know what's important :^).