THE WHITE HOUSE

                  Office of the Press Secretary
                   (Pittsburgh, Pennslyvania)
______________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release                         April 17, 1993

                  RADIO ADDRESS TO THE NATION
                        BY THE PRESIDENT

                Pittsburgh International Airport
                    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

10:06 A.M. EDT

             THE PRESIDENT:  Good morning.  My voice is coming to
you this morning through the facilities of the oldest radio
station in America, KDKA in Pittsburgh.  I'm visiting the city to
meet personally with citizens here to discuss my plans for jobs,
health care and the economy.  But I wanted first to do my weekly
broadcast with the American people.

             I'm told this station first broadcast in 1920 when
it reported that year's presidential elections.  Over the past
seven decades presidents have found ways to keep in touch with
the people, from whistle-stop tours to fire-side chats to the bus
tour that I adopted, along with Vice President Gore, in last
year's campaign.

             Every Saturday morning I take this time to talk with
you, my fellow Americans, about the problems on your minds and
what I'm doing to try and solve them.  It's my way of reporting
to you and of giving you a way to hold me accountable.

             You sent me to Washington to get our government and
economy moving after years of paralysis and policy and a bad
experiment with trickle-down economics.  You know how important
it is for us to make bold, comprehensive changes in the way we do
business.

             We live in a competitive global economy.  Nations
rise and fall on the skills of their workers, the competitiveness
of their companies, the imagination of their industries, and the
cooperative experience and spirit that exists between business,
labor and government.  Although many of the economies of the
industrialized world are now suffering from slow growth, they've
made many of the smart investments and the tough choices which
our government has for too long ignored.  That's why many of them
have been moving ahead and too many of our people have been
falling behind.

             We have an economy today that even when it grows is
not producing new jobs.  We've increased the debt of our nation
by four times over the last 12 years, and we don't have much to
show for it.  We know that wages of most working people have
stopped rising, that most people are working longer work weeks
and that too many families can no longer afford the escalating
cost of health care.

             But we also know that, given the right tools, the
right incentives and the right encouragement, our workers and
businesses can make the kinds of products and profits our economy
needs to expand opportunity and to make our communities better
places to live.

             In many critical products today Americans are the
low cost, high quality producers.  Our task is to make sure that
we create more of those kinds of jobs.

             Just two months ago I gave Congress my plan for
long-term jobs and economic growth.  It changes the old
priorities in Washington and puts our emphasis where it needs to
be -- on people's real needs, on increasing investments and jobs
and education, on cutting the federal deficit, on stopping the
waste which pays no dividends, and redirecting our precious
resources toward investment that creates jobs now and lays the
groundwork for robust economic growth in the future.

             These new directions passed the Congress in record
time and created a new sense of hope and opportunity in our
country.  Then the jobs plan I presented to Congress, which would
create hundreds of thousands of jobs, most of them in the private
sector in 1993 and 1994, passed the House of Representatives.  It
now has the support of a majority of the United States Senate.
But it's been held up by a filibuster of a minority in the
Senate, just 43 senators.  They blocked a vote that they know
would result in the passage of our bill and the creation of jobs.

             The issue isn't politics; the issue is people.
Millions of Americans are waiting for this legislation and
counting on it, counting on us in Washington.  But the jobs bill
has been grounded by gridlock.

             I know the American people are tired of business as
usual and politics as usual.  I know they don't want us to spin
or wheels.  They want the recovery to get moving.  So I have
taken a first step to break this gridlock and gone the extra
mile.  Yesterday I offered to cut the size of this plan by 25
percent -- from $16 billion to $12 billion.

             It's not what I'd hoped for.  With 16 million
Americans looking for full-time work, I simply can't let the bill
languish when I know that even a compromise bill will mean
hundreds of thousands of jobs for our people.  The mandate is to
act to achieve change and move the country forward.  By taking
this initiative in the face of an unrelenting Senate talkathon, I
think we can respond to your mandate and achieve a significant
portion of our original goals.

             First, we want to keep the programs as much as
possible that are needed to generate jobs and meet human needs,
including highway and road construction, summer jobs for young
people, immunization for children, construction of waste water
sites, and aid to small businesses.  We also want to keep funding
for extended unemployment compensation benefits, for people who
have been unemployed for a long time because the economy isn't
creating jobs.

             Second, I've recommended that all the other programs
in the bill be cut across-the-board by a little more than 40
percent.

             And third, I've recommended a new element in this
program to help us immediately start our attempt to fight against
crime by providing $200 million for cities and towns to rehire
police officers who lost their jobs during the recession and put
them back to work protecting our people.  I'm also going to fight
for a tough crime bill because the people of this country need it
and deserve it.

             Now, the people who are filibustering this bill --
the Republican senators -- say they won't vote for it because it
increases deficit spending, because there's extra spending this
year that hasn't already been approved.  That sounds reasonable,
doesn't it?  Here's what they don't say.  This program is more
than paid for by budget cuts over my five-year budget, and this
budget is well within the spending limits already approved by the
Congress this year.

             It's amazing to me that many of these same senators
who are filibustering the bill voted during the previous
administration for billions of dollars of the same kind of
emergency spending, and much of it was not designed to put the
American people to work.

             This is not about deficit spending.  We have offered
a plan to cut the deficit.  This is about where your priorities
are -- on people or on politics.

             Keep in mind that our jobs bill is paid for dollar
for dollar.  It is paid for by budget cuts.  And it's the
soundest investment we can now make for ourselves and our
children.  I urge all Americans to take another look at this jobs
and investment program; to consider again the benefits for all of
us when we've helped make more American partners working to
ensure the future of our nation and the strength of our economy.

             You know, if every American who wanted a job had
one, we wouldn't have a lot of the other problems we have in this
country today.  This bill is not a miracle, it's a modest first
step to try to set off a job creation explosion in this country
again.  But it's a step we ought to take.  And it is fully paid
for over the life of our budget.

             Tell your lawmakers what you think.  Tell them how
important the bill is.  If it passes, we'll all be winners.

             Good morning, and thank you for listening.


Do you have the specs for this monitor?  What have they changed from the
F550i?

Do you know if their is going to be a new T560i soon? (a T560iW?)


Ihave had a frozen shoulder for over a year or about a year.  It is still
partially frozen, and I am still in physical therapy every week.  But the
pain has subsided almost completely.  UNTIL last week when I mowed the
lawn for twenty minutes each, two days in a row.  I have a push type power
mower.  The pain started back up a little bit for the first time in quite
a while, and I used ice and medicine again.  Can anybody explain why this
particular activity, which does not seem to stress me very much generally,
should cause this shoulder problem?

Thanks.


Archive-name: space/mnemonics
Last-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:14 $

ASTRONOMICAL MNEMONICS (This is the last FAQ section posted to sci.astro)

    Gathered from various flurries of mnemonic postings on sci.astro.

    Spectral classification sequence: O B A F G K M R N S

	Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Me Right Now, Sweetheart. (a classic)

	O'Dell's Big Astronomical Fiasco Gonna Kill Me Right Now Surely
	Obese Balding Astronomy Found Guilty; Killed Many Reluctant
	    Nonscience Students.
	Octopus Brains, A Favorite Gastronomical Kitchen Menu,
	    Requires No Sauce
	Odd Ball Astronomers Find Generally Kooky Mnemonics
	    Really Nifty Stuff
	Oh Big And Ferocious Gorilla, Kill My Roomate Next Saturday
	Oh Boy, A Flash! Godzilla Kills Mothra! Really Not Surprising!
	Oh Boy, An F Grade Kills Me
	On Bad Afternoons Fermented Grapes Keep Mrs. Richard Nixon Smiling
	On, Backward Astronomer, Forget Geocentricity; Kepler's Motions
	    Reveal Nature's Simplicity
	Our Bad Astronomy Faculty Gets Killed Monday
	Oven Baked Ants, Fried Gently, Kept Moist, Retain Natural Succulence
	Overseas Broadcast: A Flash!  Godzilla kills Mothra!
	    (Rodan Named Successor)
	Overweight Boys and Fat Girls Keep Munching
	Only Bored Astronomers Find Gratification Knowing Mnemonics
	Oh Bloody Astronomy!  F Grades Kill Me

    Order of the planets:

	Sun
	Mercury
	Venus
	Earth (Terra)
	Mars
	(Asteroids)
	Jupiter
	Saturn
	Uranus
	Neptune
	Pluto

	My Very Earnest Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizzas
	Mother Very Thoughtfully Made A Jelly Sandwich Under No Protest
	My Very Erotic Mate Joyfully Satisfies Unusual Needs Passionately
	Men Very Easily Make Jugs Serve Useful Nocturnal Purposes
	Man Very Early Made A Jug Serve Useful Noble Purposes
	My Very Educated Mother Just Showed Us Nine Planets
	My Very Eager Mother Just Showed Us Nine Planets
	My Very Exhausted Mother hAs Just Swept Up a Planetary Nebula
	Most Voters Earn Money Just Showing Up Near Polls
	My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizza-pies
	Many Viscious Elephants Made John, Suzy and Uncle Need Protection
	Solar Mass Very Easily Makes All Jupiter's Satellites Undergo
	    Numerous Perturbations.

	Mein Vater erklaert mir jeden Sonntag unsere niedlichen Planeten
	    (My Father explains to me every Sunday our nine planets)
	Man verachte einen Menschen in seinem Unglueck nie -- Punkt
	    (Never scorn/despise a person in his misfortune/bad luck/misery
		-- period!)

    Colors of the spectrum: Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet
	ROY G. BIV  (pronounce as a man's name)
	Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain
	Read Out Your Good Book In Verse

    Galilean Satellite of Jupiter: Io Europa Ganymede Callisto
	I Expect God Cries
	I Eat Green Cheese
	I Embarrass Good Christians

	Ich erschrecke all guten Christen
	    (I scare all good Christians)

    Saturnian Satellites
	MET DR THIP
	Miriam's Enchiladas Taste Divine Recently. Tell Her I'm Proud.
	(Mimas, Enceladus, Tethys, Dione, Rhea, Titan, Hyperion,
	    Iapetus, Phoebe)

    Uranian Satellites:
	MAUTO
	Mispronunciations Afflict Uranus Too Often
	My Angel Uriel Takes Opium
	(Miranda, Ariel, Umbriel, Titania, Oberon)

NOTE: the remaining FAQ sections do not appear in sci.astro, as they cover
    material of relevance only to sci.space.


I posted this several days ago for Dave Butler.  He may have missed it - my
Usenet board has changed a little.  Just in case he missed it, here it is again.

Dave Butler writes...

From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
Subject: Re: NEW BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS [Fallaciously] ANSWERED (Judas)
Date: Thu Apr  1 20:52:11 1993

"I can basically restrict this post to showing the type of evidence Mr DeCenso
has presented, and answering his two questions (and a couple of his spurious
insults and false claims)."

MY REPLY...
O.K.

DB...
[By the way Mr DeCenso, you really should have looked in the index of your
Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich Greek lexicon.  You would have found that the word in
Acts for "lot" is "kleros," not "CHORION" as stated by Mr Archer, and nowhere
in the very large discussion of kleros in done the to "Theological Dictionary
of the New Testament" by Bromley, is the meaning "burial plot" discussed.  It
discusses the forms of "kleros" (eg: kleros, kleroo, etc), and the various
meanings of "kleros" (eg: "plot of land," and "inheritance"), but mentions
nothing about CHORION or "burial plot." (Why does this not surprise me?) Thus
it would seem to be a very good thing you dumped Archer as a reference.]

DB later corrected himself...
_____________________________________________________________________
From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
Subject: Re: NEW BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS [Fallaciously] ANSWERED (Judas)
Date: Fri Apr  2 02:32:11 1993

I owe the group an apology.  It is my habit to check my articles before and
after their submission for errors.  In my last article I stated:

I was wrong. I admit that I do not have a handle on Greek grammar, and thus
confused "kleros", the second to last word in Acts 1:17 as being the plot of
land discussed.  In actuality it is "chorion", which is the last word Acts
1:18.  Unfortunately my Greek dictionary does not discuss "chorion" so I
cannot report as to the nuances of the word.

I don't know if someone else would have caught this, though I am sure that
someone would be able to do so, but I have an aversion to disseminating
mistakes, especially when someone else might use that mistake to prove a point"

_____________________________________________________________________

MY REPLY...
Vary noble of you Dave.  I didn't want to have to go to x number of sources to
show you wrong.  (Although I am researching CHORION a little).

DB...
"Of course the only other reference Mr DeCenso has given is Bullinger.  And
Bullinger uses such ridiculous exegisis that when I accused Mr DeCenso of
actually believing Bullinger, he replied that I misquoted him:

of > my response to see what I REALLY said in my posting of this article.

 [Actually Mr DeCenso, you said that there was "benefit" to our argument, in
  that it caused to to rediscover Bullinger's exegisis.  I did not realize
  that you would find such garbage beneficial, unless you were convinced by
  it]."

MY REPLY...
Thank you for correcting your restating of my points.

DB...
"and Mr DeCenso also replied:

Thus I apologize for thinking that even Mr DeCenso could find such "drek"
convincing....he should specify which parts of Bullinger he finds convincing
and quit hiding behind a disingenuous mask of "This is what Bullinger
believed, not necessarily what I believe." So which is it Mr DeCenso? Do you
find the exegisis convincing or not?)"

MY REPLY...
One of my purposes in debating these alleged contradictions with you and
others is to diseminate many different views of possible reconciliations
raised by various Bible scholars and students alike.  When I present MY VIEWS,
I will clearly distinguish them from now on.

DB...
"Of course without Archer and Bullinger we find that Mr DeCenso has presented
no Greek exegisis at all, and Mr DeCenso has made a big thing about my not
referring back to the actual Greek.  Thus we find this demand on his part for
quality Greek exegisis to be a hypocritical requirement."

MY REPLY...
Good point.  But in your declaring that these passages are contradictory, you
have produced only superficial reasonings and observations. Nor have you dug
deeper.  I'm glad you have begun in this post.  I will begin Greek studies on
these passages in more depth than I thought necessary, as well.

DB...
"It would be appropriate to look at what Mr DeCenso has actually USED as
evidence.  Now we know what he claims for a standard, as he has stated it
often enough:

But are these actual standards he has used, or simply empty hyperbole.  Let's
see, he has used (a), and since he is trying to reconcile it to other
passages, we see that he has also used (b).  On the other hand he has
presented no use of:

(d) historical context                or
(e) historical content                or
(f) other pertinent historical info   or
(g) cultural context                  or
(h) cultural content                  or
(i) other pertinent cultural info     or
(j) grammatical construction          or even
(k) Hebrew and Greek word studies [remember, Archer and Bullinger don't count]

Thus we find his vaunted criteria for exegisis is just empty mouthings."

MY REPLY...
Question:  Do you find such criteria important?  If so, do you plan on starting
to use them to the best of your ability, or will you continue to present
shallow observations (I don't mean this in a bad way).
At this point in our _debates_, I have not found it necessary to present a
total exegetical analysis of these passages, since we seem to keep beating
around the bush and not getting into the core of the verses.  I do not believe
it necessary to use many of the above criteria to refute your arguments re:
Judas in Acts and Matthew, but I will do my best from this point on to use
several of the above criteria, since you desire me to.  I hope you will also.
It will greatly enhance our study of these passages.

DB...
"The only thing he has actually used, beyond the passage itself, is any other
passage.  Thus Mr DeCenso should be honest and note that most of his list is
red herring and his only real criteria seems to be:

MY REPLY...
The reason is simple...you are mistating the passages.  You claim that the
PASSAGES contradict one another; I do not see the PASSAGES contradicting one
another.
(1) They may very well be complimentary, as many scholarly sources mention;
(2) Matthew may not be presenting Judas' death, as you claim.  But we'll look
at your defense of this later.

Also, the "reward of iniquity" in the Acts PASSAGE may not be the 30 pieces of
silver in Matthew's PASSAGES.  (Although you have a valiant attempt later at
stating why you believe it is).

At this beginning stages in our debates, we are laying some Scriptural
groundwork, which will be expanded upon through deeper exegesis.

DB...
"Of course the only reason I can see to so drastically reinterpret a passage
as he has done with Judas' death, is to make it agree with another passage so
that both could be considered correct."

MY REPLY...
One of the reasons I have given a different exegetical view of the passages is
that you seem to think the majority of scholarship is wrong in concluding these
passages are complimentary.  However, I see no problem in Tony Rose's
explanation of Judas' death...

_____________________________________________________________________

HOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THE INACCURACY BETWEEN JUDAS HANGING
HIMSELF IN MATTHEW 27:5 AND "FALLING HEADLONG HE BURST OPEN"
=============================================================

This question of the manner in which Judas died is one with which we are
constantly confronted in our travels. Many people point to the apparent
discrepancy in the two accounts as an obvious, irreconcilable error.
Some have gone so far as to say that the idea of an inerrant Bible is
destroyed by these contradictory accounts. However, this is not the case at
all.
Matthew relates that Judas hanged himself, while Peter tells us he fell and
was crushed by the impact. The two statements are indeed different, but do
they necessarily contradict each other?
Matthew does not say that Judas did not fall; neither does Peter say that
Judas did not hang himself. This is not a matter of one person calling
something black and the other person calling it white. Both accounts can be
true and supplementary.
A possible reconstruction would be this: Judas hanged himself on a tree on the
edge of a precipice that overlooked the valley of Hinnom. After he hung there
for some time, the limb of the tree snapped or the rope gave way and Judas
fell down the ledge, mangling his body in the process.
The fall could have been before *or* after death as either would fit this
explanation. This possibility is entirely natural when the terrain of the
valley of Hinnom is examined.  From the bottom of the valley, you can see
rocky terraces 25 to 40 feet in height and almost perpendicular.
There are still trees around the ledges and a rocky pavement at the bottom.
Therefore, it is easy to conclude that Judas struck one of the jagged rocks on
this way down, tearing his body open. It is important to remember that we are
not told how long Judas remained hanging from the tree or how advanced
was the decomposition of his body before his fall.
Louis Gaussen relates a story of a man who was determined to kill himself.
This individual placed himself on the sill of a high window and pointed a
pistol at his head. He then pulled the trigger and leaped from the window at
the same time.
On the other hand, a person could say that this man took his life by shooting
himself, while another could rightly contend he committed suicide by jumping
form the tall building. In this case, both are true, as both are true in the
case of Matthew's and Peter's accounts of the death of Judas. It is merely a
situation of different perspectives of the same event.

_____________________________________________________________________

Your only reason for rejecting this is, I believe, your attempt to discredit
inerrancy.  You haven't related how this is IMPOSSIBLE or highly unlikely.
Here's what you said in an earlier post...

_____________________________________________________________________
DB [quoting Tony Rose]...

"The added text in this version is so heavy that, assuming you are truly so
opposed to such tactics, you should find it not credible.  But you seem to
find Tony Rose's eisegesis satisfactory, while clearly rejecting David
Joslin's."

_____________________________________________________________________

Here, you discredit Tony's explanation based on what you deem too "heavy" for
the passages.  But you haven't addressed why you feel that way.  You can say
it's a vain attempt to reconcile the contradiction, but that doesn't tell me it
didn't happen, nor have you shown why you reject that possibility.

Questions:  Is Matthew lying or is Luke lying?  Or are they both lying?  Or
are either or both of them misinformed?  Why do you think there is such an
alleged contradiction?  I do not think you have ever told us what you believe
in this respect.

DB...
"At present though, Mr DeCenso only asks two questions of me:

Actually I find question (1) to be a rather stupid request, but I will answer
it because he now restricts himself to two points.  First I would point out
that hanging is a very efficient manner for ending a life.  In fact it is a
bit of a fluke when someone survives hanging (except in fantasy cowboy
movies), and even then it usually referred to as an attempted hanging."

MY REPLY...
I work at an agency that investigates child abuse and neglect.  Today, I got a
call re: a child that attempted suicide by hanging himself because his mother
is on crack.  He failed in his attempt and is in a child's psych ward at a
local hospital.  Hanging attempts are not always successful.

To assume that because most hangings are successful, this one was also is
"begging the question", if I may quote you.

[Last night, listening to _The Bible Answer Man_ broadcast, The Christian
Research Institute's show, one of the scholars on there used several of these
terms that you use.  I am not all that familiar with them.  The man on the BAM
show teaches Comparative Religion and Logic.  It was interesting]

DB...
"This is so prevalent that, so that to say a man hung himself with no other
qualifiers is synonymous with stating that he killed himself."

MY REPLY...
Qualifiers are important at times, as we'll see in an OT passage I'll mention
below.
Does hanging ALWAYS have this outcome?  Did Matthew, who is the only source we
have re: Judas hanging himself, state that Judas died as a result?  To say it's
synonymous means it has the same meaning as.  A boy (age 14) hung himself.  But
he lived.  This is only one of probably thousands of documented cases we can
discover.

DB...
"Now I am not alone in this thought; in fact, since Mr DeCenso so respects
Christian scholarly (including Greek scholars) opinion, I did some research."

MY REPLY...
Thank you, Dave.

DB...
"Interestingly, not one of the Christian references I read, interpreted the
hanging as being anything but a fatal suicide.              ^^^^^^^^^^^

MY REPLY...
[^^^ above, mine]
So it's OK to use Christian sources to back your points?  What about Tony's
position.  Do you value it or even consider it as a valid possibility?

Also, is it possible that the sources you read may be wrong, or lying, or
deceived in other parts of their books?  If so, should we do, as we have done
with Archer, toss them to the side and not value anything they say, including
their "interpretation" of the hanging of Judas?  I am sure _you_ would find
some errors and maybe even some deception in those sources.

You also noted they "interpreted" the hanging as meaning he died.  Although
that is very possibly true, do you find that in the text itself?  Remember,
that's the first criteria we must examine.

DB...
"This included:

    "The Biblical Knowledge Commentary" by Woodward and Zuck"

MY REPLY...
Which I own.  It's a good source of commentary info.  But not inerrant.

DB...
    "The Interpreters on Volume Commentary on the Bible" by Laydon
    "The one volume Bible Commentary" by J R Dunelow
    "Word meanings of the Testament" Ralph Earl
    "The Abingdon Bible Commentary" published by Abingdon
    "Harpers Bible Commentary" by William Neal
     (Actually I could have presented many more as well)

MY REPLY...
I appreciate your doing this research, Dave.  Maybe we are getting somewhere
in how we both should approach these alleged contradictions - more in depth
study.

DB...
"In each case, these references specifically describe that the interpretation
of Matt 27:5 as successful, suicide and thus I can only conclude that the
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Greek word "apagchw"(ie: hang oneself) is translated as a successful hanging."

MY REPLY...
[^^^ above, mine]
No you can't only conclude this, although, as Tony says, this was a highly
probable outcome.  But Matthew does not state death as being a result.

The Greek word is APAGCHO.  Matthew 27:5 is it's only occurrence in the New
Testament.

In the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the OT used at the time of Jesus),
it's only used in 2 Samuel 17:23 : "Now when Ahithophel saw that his advice was
not followed, he saddled a donkey, and arose and went home to his house, to his
city. Then he put his household in order, and hanged himself, and died; and he
was buried in his father's tomb."             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Notice that not only is it stated that Ahithophel "hanged himself" [Gr. Sept.,
APAGCHO], but it explicitly adds, "and died".  Here we have no doubt of the
result.
In Matthew, we are not explicitly told Judas died.

Also, there is nothing in the Greek to suggest success or failure.  It simply
means "hang oneself".

DB...
"But Mr DeCenso, you are more than welcome to disagree and show more reputable
                                                                     ^^^^^^^^^
Christian scholars that insist that the hanging was not successful."

MY REPLY...
[^^^above, mine]
"Reputable"?  You mean ones that have never erred?
As far as   insisting that the hanging was unsuccessful, that can't be done,
even by me. ^^^^^^^^^

As I said in an earlier post...

_____________________________________________________________________
Although I still agree with Tony's exegesis as being the most probable
explanation regarding Judas' death (taking into account several criteria),
I've recently noticed some new things in Matthew.

MAT 27:5-8 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed,
and went and hanged himself. But the chief priests took the silver pieces and
said, "It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, because they are the
price of blood." And they consulted together and bought with them the potter's
field, to bury strangers in. Therefore that field has been called the Field of
Blood to this day.

First of all, notice that the text does not say that Judas died as a result of
hanging. All it says is that he "went and hanged himself." Luke however, in
Acts, tells us that "and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all
his entrails gushed out." This is a pretty clear indication (along with the
other details given in Acts - Peter's speech, the need to pick a new apostle,
etc.) that at least after Judas' fall, he was dead. So the whole concept that
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Matthew and Luke both recount Judas' death is highly probable, but not clear
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
cut.
^^^
_____________________________________________________________________

I also wrote...

_____________________________________________________________________
MY REPLY...

Here we have a stickler, Dave, that I have to say I just recently noticed.
Let's look at the passage in Matthew:

MAT 27:4 saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." And they said,
"What is that to us? You see to it!"

MAT 27:5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed,
and went and hanged himself.

MAT 27:6 But the chief priests took the silver pieces and said, "It is not
lawful to put them into the treasury, because they are the price of blood."

MAT 27:7 And they consulted together and bought with them the potter's field,
to bury strangers in.

MAT 27:8 Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.

Notice verse 5..."Then he...went and hanged himself."
Matthew does not say Judas died, does it?  Should we assume he died as a
result of the hanging?                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What does Acts say?
ACT 1:18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and
falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.

ACT 1:20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms: 'Let his dwelling place be
desolate, And let no one live in it'; and, 'Let another take his office.'

Here we may have a graphic explanation of Judas' death....So, my line of
reasoning to dispel your contradiction myth re:the "two" accounts of Judas'
death is this...Matthew doesn't necessarily explain how Judas died; he does
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
say Judas "hanged himself", but he didn't specifically say Judas died in the
hanging incident.               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
However, Acts seems to show us his graphic demise.  Therefore, there is no
contradiction between Matthew and Acts re: Judas' `death'.

.......

MY REPLY...
...we do know from Matthew that he did hang himself and Acts probably records
his death.  Although it's possible and plausible that he fell from the hanging
and hit some rocks, thereby bursting open, I can no longer assume that to be
the case.  Therefore, no contradiction.  Matthew did not say Judas died as a
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
result of the hanging, did he?  Most scholars believe he probably did, but...?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
______________________________________________________________________

I quoted all that to show that I highly regard the scholars' explanations, but
in looking at the texts initially, we can't assume Judas died.  It is, however,
highly probable.                            ^^^^^^

DB...
"By the way, while all agree that Judas died from the hanging, the books had
different ways of dealing with the contradiction we are discussing.  One
simply ignored it entirely and simply referred back to Matthew's version as
the correct version in both Matt and Acts.  "The Biblical Knowledge Commentary"
suggested the hypotheses that Judas hung and then when he rotted, his belly
exploded (which doesn't explain his headlong fall), or that his branch or rope
broke, and he fell to his death and his gut gushed out (which doesn't explain
how a hanging man, would fall headlong rather than feet first)."

MY REPLY...
The outcome of any fall is dependent upon many factors...how high the person
was suspended before the fall, any obstructions such as tree branches that may
have deviated the fall, how steep an incline of rocky surfaces the victim fell
upon, thus possibly rolling or bouncing of several rocks, etc.  In a
superficial examination of the Acts passage and the Matthew passage, we are not
given a lot of info on the geographical specifics, but Tony in the above quoted
post gave us some...

_____________________________________________________________________
A possible reconstruction would be this: Judas hanged himself on a tree on the
edge of a precipice that overlooked the valley of Hinnom. After he hung there
for some time, the limb of the tree snapped or the rope gave way and Judas
fell down the ledge, mangling his body in the process.
The fall could have been before *or* after death as either would fit this
explanation. This possibility is entirely natural when the terrain of the
valley of Hinnom is examined.  From the bottom of the valley, you can see
rocky terraces 25 to 40 feet in height and almost perpendicular.
There are still trees around the ledges and a rocky pavement at the bottom.
Therefore, it is easy to conclude that Judas struck one of the jagged rocks on
this way down, tearing his body open.
_____________________________________________________________________

DB...
Now truthfully, I do not see what is comforting about Matthew confusing the
source of the Potter's field prophesy, but on the other hand the author is
correct: Matthew does make that confusion.  Of course a Biblical inerrantist
who claim that every word of the Bible is guaranteed true by God, will have to
thereby add one more contradiction to the death of Judas (ie: where the
prophesy of the Potter's field came from)."

MY REPLY...
Please, when we are done with this study on his death, remind me to discuss
this with you.

DB...
As to your second question Mr DeCenso, you ask how we could be sure that the
money with which Judas purchased the land, was indeed for the betrayal, rather
than some other source.  I would point out that in Acts, where it specifically
mention "the reward of iniquity" [Acts 1:18], it also specifically mentions
what act of iniquity they were talking about (ie: Acts 1:16 "...concerning
Judas who was guide to those who arrested Jesus.").  Now I would point out
that when the Bible describes an act of "iniquity," and then immediately
discusses "*the* reward of iniquity," it would be rather inane to suggest that
it was an action of iniquity other than the one discussed."

MY REPLY...
Dave, we are getting somewhere, aren't we!

ACT 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples
(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said,
ACT 1:16 "Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy
Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide
to those who arrested Jesus;
ACT 1:17 "for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry."
ACT 1:18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and
falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.
ACT 1:19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field
is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)
ACT 1:20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms: 'Let his dwelling place be
desolate, And let no one live in it'; and, 'Let another take his office.'

Notice that in verse 16, the word "iniquity" is not used.  Rather, it states
that Judas "became a guide to those who arrested Jesus".
But the writer DID NOT stop there...vs. 17, "for he was numbered with us and
obtained a part in this ministry."  What part did Judas play in their ministry?
         ^^^^^^
JOH 12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a
thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.
JOH 13:29 For some thought, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus had
said to him, "Buy those things we need for the feast," or that he should give
something to the poor.

So, now we know what part Judas played - he was a treasurer, per se.
Right after Peter stated that Judas played a part in this ministry (treasurer,
according to John), THEN Luke adds the parenthetical explanation of "wages of
iniquity" - money that should have been put into the ministry, but was stolen
by Judas to purchase a field.  I believe this is a better exegetical
explanation of what the "wages of iniquity" are.  What do you think, Dave?

DB...
"Now since I have given you clear answers (and even references), perhaps you
could unequivocally state what type of inerrantist you are (instead of asking
me what type I think you are, as you did to Mr Joslin)."

MY REPLY...
I will gladly admit that I am a Complete Inerrantist, although I do not have
that big a problem with the Limited Inerrancy view.

Frank


[much discussion about switching 5.25" and 3.5" drives removed]

Another (albeit strange) option is using a program like 800 II
(available via anonymous FTP at many major sites), or FDFORMAT
(also available via anonymous FTP), that allows you to format
5.25HD disks to 1.44Meg, or 3.5"HD disks to 1.2Meg (along with
many MANY other formats!) so you can DISKCOPY (yes, the broken
MeSsy-DOS DISKCOPY!) the 5.25" disks onto 3.5" disks or vice
versa...  I use this techniques with "NON-DOS" self-booting
game disks on my old Tandy 1000, and it works...  Another program
named Teledisk (shareware--available on many major BBS's) will
also make the weird format disks, provided you have 800 II
or FDFormat installed....  Some disks that won't DISKCOPY
properly can be readily Teledisk'd into the proper format...
At least this is a software solution for a hardware/BIOS
deficiency, eh?

--
Joseph Zbiciak                         im14u2c@camelot.bradley.edu
[====Disclaimer--If you believe any of this, check your head!====]
------------------------------------------------------------------


No problem, no offence taken ...

It is sad, just as a lover of the sport, that this team can be in
the metro New York area for over a decade and still exist as just
a non-entity ...

We're getting the Sabres-Bruins as the replacement game (and probably
so are you) while the Devils-Penguins game is played on SCNY and the
Islanders-Caps are the overflow game on the SCA (SCNY Plus).  If the
Sabres-Bruins ends early then we'll go to the Devils-Penguins game
(assuming that ESPN follows their previous patterns; we got the last
minute of the Islanders-Rangers and all of the overtime two weeks
ago).  ESPN's coverage started last night, by accident, but as one
or more other writers have pointed out, they could've gone to wild
hog wrestling for the evening instead ...

gld


Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in
the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps.


The only fungus I know of from California is Coccidiomycosis.  I
hadn't heard that it attacked bone.  It attacks lung and if you
are especially unlucky, the central nervous system.  Nothing new
about it.  It's been around for years.  THey call it "valley
fever", since it is found in the inland valleys, not on the coast.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon."


	The debate over the Second Amendment rages on.
Arguments continue over what a "well-regulated militia"
is and what TRKBA means in practical terms.  However, the
ONLY authority in this area, is a binding court decision
on the matter.  Even a decision in this area is subject to
an overturning by a higher court.  Is there anyone who
has the facts of a legal precedent, preferably a Supreme
Court decision on the specific meaning of the 2nd Amendment?


Did it ever accrue to you to just call INTEL'S 800 number and ask?


First game, first at bat.


Hi,

I just inherited an NCR 1204 external floppy.  This thing has every port known to man on the back.
The question is: Does anyone know how to connect this thing to a PC. What hardware is needed?
Software?

TIA,
Alex


Roger? Lecture someone on not using smileys? What sweet hipocracy...

KOZ


Is it a hidden option?  I'm using PowerStrip 2.0 (by Mr. Caputo) right now
and can't find any quick discharge option.  It definitely is on
mac.archive.umich.edu 'cause I submitted it!


[reply to geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)]

I think a case could be made that this is discriminatory, particularly
if an applicant had good board scores and recommendations but wasn't
offered an interview, but I don't know if it has ever gone to court.


	Would you please define "nth derivative of debt"?  Last time I asked
you seem to have disappeared....

	And it's the deficits themselves that came down to 2.9% of GNP.  The
numbers are posted in the previous posting.

	Cute, Paul, but with no numbers you still look foolish.

	Paul, like many others, is confusing the deficit with the debt.

	Not in terms of GNP, the one universally accepted measure of deficits
(at least among rigorous economists :)

...

	Semantics.  Lindsey proves otherwise.  Taxes make people change their
economic activities.
	Or shall we debate whether it is the gun, the bullet, or the person who
does the killing?

	Or whether this gentleman can win the same praise as Lindsey. :)


# Well said Mr. Beyer :)

He-he. The great humanist speaks. One has to read Mr. Salah's posters,
in which he decribes Jews as "sons of pigs and monkeys", keeps
promising the "final battle" between Muslims and Jews (in which the
stons and the trees will "cry for the Muslims to come and kill the
Jews hiding behind them"), makes jokes about Jews dying from heart
attacks etc, to realize his objective stance on the matters involved.


Hello,

I am writing a grant proposal for a Developmental Genetics class and I
have chose to look at the Neurofibromatosis 1 gene and its variable
expressivity.  I am curious what has already been done on this subject,
especially the relationship between specific mutations and the resulting
phenotype.  My literature search has produce many references, but I want to
make sure I am proposing new research.  If anyone knows aything that has been
recently or key peopl doing research to search for using MEDLINE, I would
apprciate being informed.

Thank you.


An open letter to Marc Afifi

Dear Marc,
	I believe that you are wrong about Mr. Freeman.  He has written in
a style that raises the level of posts on this board.  If you just don't seem
to get it, I believe that it is more of a reflection of you and your abilities
than of him.  His posts contain substance and and he defends his positions
well.
	Having said this, I would like to ask in general for people on this
board to realize that if they don't agree with the substance of posts, then they should respond to the substance (or lack of) of the posts rather than attack
the author of the posts.  When one has to resort to attacking a poster rather than what he/she has written, one can see that that person does not have the
ability to make a coherent argument concerning the post.

Peace,


OY] Henrik (?),
OY] Your ignorance manifests itself in an awkward form of intransigence. I'm not
OY] going to spend time to review with you the recent history of Cyprus.

I wish the fascist x-Soviet Armenian government would do that. Well,
if you prefer to imagine that the American, European, Jewish and Armenian
scholars were trying to mislead 'Arromdians', be my guest.

Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian
armies in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume
II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."
(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.

"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city
 of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population,
 closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan
 on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized
 and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during
 the next two days while the small Ottoman garrison had to retreat to the
 southern side of the lake."

Source: "World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers,
Inc., New York (1952).
(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5
 million Muslim people)

p. 361 (seventh paragraph) and p. 362 (first paragraph).

 'The most are inside houses. Come you and look.'
 'No, dammit! My stomach isn't-'
 'One is a Turkish officer in uniform. Him you must see.'
 "We were under those trees by the mosque, in an open space....
 'I don't believe you," I said, but followed to a nail-studded door. The
  man pushed it ajar, then spurred away, leaving me to check on the corpse.
  I thought I should, this charge was so constant, so gritted my teeth and
  went inside.

 The place was cool but reeked of sodden ashes, and was dark at first, for
 its stone walls had only window slits. Rags strewed the mud floor around an
 iron tripod over embers that vented their smoke through roof beams black
 with soot. All looked bare and empty, but in an inner room flies buzzed. As
 the door swung shut behind me I saw they came from a man's body lying face
 up, naked but for its grimy turban. He was about fifty years old by what
 was left of his face - a rifle butt had bashed an eye. The one left slanted,
 as with Tartars rather than with Turks. Any uniform once on him was gone, so
 I'd no proof which he was, and quickly went out, gagging at the mess of his
 slashed genitals."

p. 363 (first paragraph).

 'How many people lived there?'
 'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned.
 'Did you see any Turk officers?'
 'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.'

 "The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a voice woke me -
 Dro's. He stood in the starlight bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled
 so long and furiously I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into
 laughter, quick and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense
 of guilt, I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion,
 Christian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than the reverse would
 have been.

 From daybreak on, Armenian villagers poured in from miles around.....
 The women plundered happily, chattering like ravens as they picked over
 the carcass of Djul. They hauled out every hovel's chattels, the last
 scrap of food or cloth, and staggered away, packing pots, saddlebags,
 looms, even spinning-wheels.

 'Thank you for a lot, Dro,' I said to him back in camp. 'But now I must
 leave.'...We shook hands, the captain said 'A bientot, mon camarade.' And
 for hours the old Molokan scout and I plodded north across parching plains.
 Like Lot's wife I looked back once to see smoke bathing all, doubtless in
 a sack of other Moslem villages up to the line of snow that was Iran.'"

p. 354.

"At morning tea, Dro and his officers spread out a map of this whole
 high region called the Karabakh. Deep in tactics, they spoke Russian,
 but I got their contempt for Allied 'neutral' zones and their distrust
 of promises made by tribal chiefs. A campaign shaped; more raids on
 Moslem villages."

p. 358.

"It will be three hours to take," Dro told me. We'd close in on three
 sides.
"The men on foot will not shoot, but use only the bayonets," Merrimanov
said, jabbing a rifle in dumbshow.
"That is for morale," Dro put in. "We must keep the Moslems in terror."
"Soldiers or civilians?" I asked.
"There is no difference," said Dro. "All are armed, in uniform or not."
"But the women and children?"
"Will fly with the others as best they may."

p. 360.

"The ridges circled a wide expanse, its floors still. Hundreds of feet
 down, the fog held, solid as cotton flock. 'Djul lies under that,' said
 Dro, pointing. 'Our men also attack from the other sides.'

 Then, 'Whee-ee!' - his whistle lined up all at the rock edge. Bayonets
 clicked upon carbines. Over plunged Archo, his black haunches rippling;
 then followed the staff, the horde - nose to tail, bellies taking the
 spur. Armenia in action seemed more like a pageant than war, even though
 I heard our Utica brass roar.

 As I watched from the height, it took ages for Djul to show clear. A tsing
 of machine-gun fire took over from the thumping batteries; cattle lowed,
 dogs barked, invisible, while I ate a hunk of cheese and drank from a snow
 puddle. Mist at last folded upward as men shouted, at first heard faintly.
 The came a shrill wailing.

 Now among the cloud-streaks rose darker wisps - smoke. Red glimmered about
 house walls of stone or wattle, into dry weeds on roofs. A mosque stood in
 clump of trees, thick and green. Through crooked alleys on fire, horsemen
 were galloping after figures both mounted and on foot.

 'Tartarski!' shouted the gunner by me. Others pantomimed them in escape
 over the rocks, while one twisted a bronze shell-nose, loaded, and yanked
 breech-cord, firing again and again. Shots wasted, I thought, when by
 afternoon I looked in vain for fallen branch or body. But these shots and
 the white bursts of shrapnel in the gullies drowned the women's cries.

 At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down toward
 Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was steep and
 tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came out suddenly,
 through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled wheat my brothers-in-
 arms were leading off animals, several calves and a lamb."

p. 361 (fourth paragraph).

"Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair,
 large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble
 where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet
 had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between
 the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun
 dress.

 The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He
 lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the
 pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed
 just below his neck, into the spine.

 There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was
 empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking
 colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead."

p. 358.

 "...more stories of Armenian murdering Turks when the czarist troops fled
  north. My hosts told me of their duty here: to keep tabs on brigands,
  Turkish troop shifts, hidden arms, spies - Christian, Red or Tartar -
  coming in from Transcaucasus. Then they spoke of the hell that would
  break loose if Versailles were to put, as threatened, the six 'Armenian'
  vilayets of Turkey under the control of Erevan...

  An Armenia without Armenians! Turks under Christian rule? His lips
  smacked in irony under the droopy red moustache. That's bloodshed - just
  Smyrna over again on a bigger scale."

Source: "U.S. Library of Congress": 'Bristol Papers' - General
         Correspondence Container #34.

 "While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the
  pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
  against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying
  their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus
  have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to
  govern or handle other races under their power."

Source: K. Gurun, "The Armenian File," (London, Nicosia, Istanbul, 1985).

"Many Muslim villages have been destroyed by the soldiers of Armenian troops
 armed with cannons and machine guns before the eyes of our troops and the
 people.....According to documented information, 28 Muslim villages have
 been destroyed...young Muslim women have been taken to Kars and Gumru,
 hundreds of women and children who were able to flee their villages were
 beaten and killed in the mountains..."

Source: W. E. D. Allen and Paul Muratoff, "Caucasian Battlefields,"
        Cambridge University Press, 1953, p. 481.

"As the Armenians found support among the Reds (who regarded the Tartars
 as a counter-revolutionary elements) the fighting soon became a massacre
 of the Tartar population."

Source: General Bronsart wrote as follows in an article in the July 24,
        1921 issue of the newspaper "Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung:"

"Since all the Moslems capable of bearing arms were in the Turkish Army,
 it was easy to organize a terrible massacre by the Armenians against
 defenseless people, because the Armenians were not only attacking the
 sides and rear of the Eastern Army paralyzed at the front by the
 Russians, but were attacking the Moslem folk in the region as well."

Source: Quoted by General Hamelin in a letter to the High Commissioner,
        February 2, 1919, in the official history, "Les Armees Francaises
        au Levant," vol. 1, p. 122.

 "They [Armenians] burned and destroyed many Turkish villages as punitive
  measures in their advance and practically all Turkish villages in their
  retreat from Marash."

Source: John Dewey, "The Turkish Tragedy", The New Republic, Volume 40,
        November 12, 1928, pp. 268-269.

 "that they [Armenians] boasted of having raised an army of one hundred
  and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at
  least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population."

Need I go on?

Serdar Argic


Learn what?  I know that 3 million dollars is A LOT of money.  I know
Rickey Henderson doesn't have a career out of baseball.  I know if he
didn't have baseball, he wouldn't be making near the money he is now.

I just don't understand how some athlete, who only plays a sport for a
living for millions of dollars, say he is not being paid enough.

If nobody will sign him for his asking price, he will be the one hurting.
The A's will still win without him.

Remeber, many of these athletes have NOTHING if not for their athletic
ability.  NOTHING.  They are getting paid MUCH more than most hard working
citizens, and they are complaining of not enough pay.


AllThe Devil ReincarnateSWR meter for CB radios

TD>From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
TD>Organization: CDAC, WA
TD>What
TD>is a good choice for a CB? 1/4 or 1/8 wave?
TD>  I read the installation instructions on a 1/4 wave antenna,
TD>and they suggested that I use an SWR to tune it at channel 12
TD>and channel 32 for a minimum reading.  Question is, why channel
TD>12 and 32?

The best antenna is one that will let out the most wave (probably not the
best explanation, but the rest makes sense) A one wave will cancell itself
out (BTW no such beastie) . The best is a 1/2 wave antenna, followed by
1/4, then 1/8 etc.

As for SWRing in, what you actually do is trim the antenna to the correct
length for the specific wavelength you will be transmitting on. Since the
wavelength varies with the channel you use, then it's recommended to SWR
in using the middle channel of those you are going to use.
Anyway in the beginning of CB's, all new antennas had to be SWR'ed in,
nowdays manufactures trim the antennas almost spot on, so that there's not
much point in SWRing. Then again you may be a fanatic and whish to do it
anyway.


I think that they go to divisional records before goals, but I could be
wrong, too.

--
    Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
						LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
	kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!


   From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)

   > Oh great. Wonderful news. Nobody can listen in--except the feds.

   Hey, it's better than the status quo.

   I am far less worried about "the feds" tapping my phone than high school
   scanner surfers who get their kicks out of eavesdropping on cellular and
   cordless phone calls.

I'm a political dissident. I'm scared shitless of the feds listening
in on my calls. My opinions are the sort that would get me
"disappeared" in a slightly less free society -- and who knows what
sort of society we will be in in five or ten years? I have friends who
have had their phones tapped -- none of this is theoretical to me.

As for "its better than the status quo", well, first of all, you can
get a cryptophone from companies like Cylink today -- and they work
well. In addition, a number of groups are now working on building
software to turn any PC into a privacy enhanced phone right now -- and
they are all working in overdrive mode.

   And yes, I'd rather just see all crypto restrictions lifted, but this is at
   least an incrememental improvement for certain applications...

There ARE no crypto restrictions... yet. You can use anything you want
RIGHT NOW. The point is to maintain that right.

--
Perry Metzger		pmetzger@shearson.com


On ftp.cica.indiana.edu in pub/pc/win3/misc/winadv.zip is a writeup by
Steve Gibson of InfoWorld with winbench 3.11 and a number of other
benchmark results for nine isa and four VLB video cards.  This is a
very current upload and is likely to have any card you're currently
giving serious consideration.  Not in XLS format.  Latest version of
WinBench that I know of is ver 3.11.  I believe they try to maintain
the same rating scale between versions, and new versions are released
to defeat the lastest coding tricks put in by driver programmers to
beat the benchmarks.  Don't know on the last one.


As an Amateur Radio operator (VHF 2metres) I like to keep up with what is
going up (and for that matter what is coming down too).

In about 30 days I have learned ALOT about satellites current, future and
past all the way back to Vanguard series and up to Astro D observatory
(space).  I borrowed a book from the library called Weater Satellites (I
think, it has a photo of the earth with a TIROS type satellite on it.)

I would like to build a model or have a large color poster of one of the
TIROS satellites I think there are places in the USA that sell them.
ITOS is my favorite looking satellite, followed by AmSat-OSCAR 13
(AO-13).

TTYL
73
Jim


Zero to very fast very quickly... lastest rumor is 115 hp at the rear wheel,
handles like a dream in a straight line to 80-100, and then gets a tad upset
according to a review in Cycle World... cornering, er well, you can't have
everything... Seriously, handling is probably as good as the big standards
of the early 80's but not compareable to whats state of the art these days.

All this gleemed from reviews and discussions with owners. I too lust after
this bike.


 :Because of some contract, IBM is not allowed to sell its
 :486 chips to third parties, so these chips are unlikely to become
 :available in any non-IBM machines.

I saw in this months PC or PC World an ad for computers using IBM's 486SLC.
So I don't think IBM is restricted in selling their chips, at least not
anymore. A clock-tripled 486, even without coprocessor would be great,
especially with 16k on-board cache. Make it 386 pin-compatible, and you
have the chip upgrade that dreams are made of :-)


I thought that Walt Weiss was jewish.  I seem to recall this
was mentioned once while he was still at Oakland.

Also, I have my suspicions about Esther Canseco (nee Haddad).


Here's the scoop.  When you get your home brew receiver working, would
you be willing to share it with the rest of us?  I always wanted to
build my own but never have the time to fool around and design it.

pin 1:  signal ground
pin 2:  signal
pin 3:  always hot +6 volts
pin 4:  +6 volts, hot only when preamp is turned on
pin 5:  infrared repeater connectors

The infrared repeater jacks on the back of the preamp are not connected
to anything inside the preamp except the 5 pin connector pin #5.  There
is a 150 ohm resistor between the two jacks, with a 1.5K from pin 5 to
ground.

The signal pin #2 in the preamp is summed with the built in IR receiver.
They use a chip called CX20106A and a BJT to amplify the signal.  I would
imagine the logical way would be to duplicate this circuit and use
it as the external receiver.

If you need more info, let me know.


I recently ftp'd Al's Circuit Simulator (ACS) and I'm looking for
the tutorial which is mentioned in the Users Manual (but not found there).
I don't have any experience constructing a netlist (such as for SPICE)
and I need a little help.

The examples which come with ACS aren't explanatory about the translation
between schematic and netlist. Does anyone have the fabled "Tutorial"
or any other reference which could help me in constructing a netlist from
a schematic diagram?

(I also emailed Al himself but received no response yet. He's probably
 busy with his next release.)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Pillsbury          Internet:  tsp@ccd.harris.com
                          uunet:  uunet!ccd.harris.com!timothy.pillsbury


The Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus in Fort Collins, Colorado,
submitted this as a questionnaire to the city council candidates
in the upcoming election. As expected, very few of the candidates
(3 of 13) responded, but they know we're watching.

Feel free to use any and all of these questions that strike your
fancy or use them as inspiration for your own.

                                *****

   1.  Would you be willing to state, in writing, that if you are
       publicly demonstrated to have violated your oath of office
       you would resign and never run for office again?

   2.  Under what circumstances do the rights of the group come
       before the rights of the individual?

   3.  Would you support a city charter amendment prohibiting the
       city government, its officials, agents, and employees from
       initiating force against any human being for any reason?

   4.  Please put the following list in order of precedence (from
       lowest to highest): a) city ordinance, b) city resolution,
       c) state law, d) federal statute, e) U.S. Constitution,
       f) state constitution.

   5.  Do you believe that it's appropriate for any city official or
       employee to be paid more than his or her average private
       sector constituent?

   6.  Do you believe that involuntary contributions are a legitimate
       means of funding council programs?

   7.  Would you support a program recognizing the right of
       taxpayers to "earmark" their taxes (either as "must be used"
       or "must not be used") for specific programs?

   8.  In the event that the candidate "None of the Above" were to
       win a city election, which option do you believe most
       appropriate? a) The candidate with the next highest vote total
       fills the office. b) A special election is held to fill the
       office, with none of the previous candidates eligible to run
       again. c) Let the office remain unfilled and unfunded until
       the next election. d) Abolish the office.

Please return your questionnaire to: [address of your choice]

A signature and date line were added here.

Thank you for taking the time to fill out this questionnaire.

                                 ******

The questionnaires were sent with self-addressed, stamped envelopes.

P.S. One person _did_ get a perfect score on the questionnaire, and,
no, he didn't help write it.

Cathy Smith


Sorry for the followup, but I couldn'y get email through on your addresses.
I, too, am trying to decide between these two printers, and I would like to
hear what users of these printers have to say about the questions above.

Thank you.


The SC1/SC2 has a shorter wheel base than the SL/SL1/SL2/SW1/SW2, just a
thought. Ithink your right though......


Evelyn Wells, on the 12 Apr 1993 11:43 CST wibbled:
: Once again, this morning I pulled up to the designated motorcycle
: parking area, only to find a cage pulled up behind the bikes.
: If people don't double-park cars, why do they do it to motorcycles?
: Never mind that rhetorical question, I know *why* they do it.

: What I want to know is, what can I do about it?  Carry pieces of
: paper that say "Don't park your car in the motorcycle area!!" ?
: Call the cops?  Wait until they emerge from the building and berate
: them until they beg forgiveness?

: Does anyone else have this problem, and what do you do about it?

: Evie

I don't know if you have a local branch where you are, but the preferred method
over here is to 'phone the IRA and tell them about the car and that it
belongs to an MP who is on a Northern Ireland Government Committee.  An hour
or so later, and the car is no longer a problem.  It's best not to park too
close to it, though.
--

Nick (the Vengeful Biker)   DoD 1069   Concise Oxford   Plastic

M'Lud.


Not to mention the thread about selling someone's wife. I am a guy, therefore
not overly bummed by it, but a little common sense would dictate that this
is offensive to many women, and not really necessary.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Ferguson                        Exxon Research & Engineering Co.
Project Engineer                      New Jersey


According to reports, if you don't have DOS yet, and don't have any
utilities (QEMM, Stacker, PCTools, Norton, ...) then DOS6 may be worth it.

For people who have DOS5, and some sort of utility, DOS6 doesn't offer
much. You'd never know it from the usual hype that marketing is able
to create, however. :-)


Just had the opportunity to watch this flick on A&E -- some 15 years
since I saw it last.

I was very interested in the technology demonstrated in this film
for handling infectious diseases (and similar toxic substances).
Clearly they "faked" a lot of the computer & robotic technology;
certainly at the time it was made most of that was science fiction
itself, let alone the idea of a "space germ".

Quite coincidentally [actually this is what got me wanted to see
the movie again] I watched a segment on the otherwise awful _How'd
They Do That?_ dealing with a disease researcher at the CDC's top
lab.  There was description of the elaborate security measures taken
so that building will never be "cracked" so to speak by man or
nature (short of deliberate bombing from the air, perhaps).  And
the researchers used "spacesuits" similar to that in the film.

I'm curious what people think about this film -- short of "silly".
Is such a facility technically feasible today?

As far as the plot, and the crystalline structure that is not Life
As We Know It, that's a whole 'nother argument for rec.arts.sf.tech
or something.


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

				Declaration of Independence
					4 July 1776


  For that matter, it shouldn't be that difficult to design a black box
that gives off EMR similar to a monitor with gibberish on the screen....


Mark Prado

Old pioneer song from the 1850's or so goes as follows:

  "In a cavern, in a canyon,
   Excavating for a mine,
   Dwelt a miner, forty-niner,
   And his daughter, CLEMENTINE"

Chorus:
  "Oh my darling, Oh my darling,
   Oh my darling Clementine.
   You are lost and gone forever,
   Oh my darling Clementine."

 I've also had it explained (but not confirmed from a reliable data
source) that CLEMENTINE is an acronym.  Something like Combined
Lunar Elemental Mapper Experiment on Extended Non Terrestrial
Intercept Near Earth.  Personally, I think that acronym was made up
to fit the name (if it really is an acronym).
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
 Wales Larrison                           Space Technology Investor


The Command Loss Timer is a timer that does just what its name says;
it indicates to the probe that it has lost its data link for receiving
commands.  Upon expiration of the Command Loss Timer, I believe the
probe starts a 'search for Earth' sequence (involving antenna pointing
and attitude changes which consume fuel) to try to reestablish
communications.  No-ops are sent periodically through those periods
when there are no real commands to be sent, just so the probe knows
that we haven't forgotten about it.

Hope that's clear enough to be comprehensible.

--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden


Comet P/Helin-Roman-Crockett also spent some time as a temporary
satellite to Jupiter a few years ago if you believe the calculations
by Tancredi, G., Lindgren, M. and  Rickman, H.(Astron. Astrophys.,
239, pp. 375-380, 1990).
--

-------------------------------------------------------------


================ ------------------------------------------------------------
 |||||||| SciP+Fi  ction set in C-Sci\programming environs list by Ian Feldman
 ..........:::::: ---------------------------------------- ---- --------------
 Written by:_____ _Book Title_; publisher'year, pp         v2.7           ISBN
 -----------       =============================== ------- ==== ##############
     John Brunner _Shockwave Rider_; Ray/Ballantine'84 $5_______ 0-345-32431-5
                   "cracking the net to free information for the common good"
      Pat Cadigan _Mindplayers_; ("an absolute must-have" --Bruce Sterling)
      Pat Cadigan _Synners_; Bantam $5; (virtual reality)_______ 0-553-28254-9
 Orson Scott Card _Lost Boys_; Harper Collins'92; (programmer and family     \
                   encounters strange events in North Carolina)
     Denise Danks _Frame Grabber_; St.Martin's, hrdb [GBP]17____ 0-312-08786-1
                   computer-illiterate journalix tracks down murderer via BBS
    Toni Dwiggins _Interrupt_; ("a techno-mystery set in Silicon Valley")
    Michael Frayn _The Tin Men_; Fontana, ("inspired lunacy" but out of print)
    David Gerrold _When HARLIE was One Release 2.0_; Bantam'88__ 0-553-26465-6
   William Gibson _Count Zero_; (computers as gods, part of a trilogy)
   William Gibson _Mona Lisa Overdrive_; (virtual reality)______ 0-553-28174-7
   William Gibson _Burning Chrome_; (cyberpunk short stories)___ 0-441-08934-8
   William Gibson _Neuromancer_; (industrial espionage)_________ 0-441-56959-5
                   (author guilty of inventing the cyberpunk genre)
      James Hogan _The Genesis Machine_; Del Ray'87 $3__________ 0-345-34756-0
      James Hogan _Thrice Upon A Time_; ("time travel for information")
      James Hogan _The Two Faces of Tomorrow_; Del Ray'79_______ 0-345-27517-9
                   ultimate test of AI-OS by letting it run a spacelab -> amok
    Stanislaw Lem _His Master's Voice_; (failed attempt to decode ET-message)
       Tom Maddox _HALO_ ("remarkable SF of robots & artificial intelligence")
 George RR Martin _Nightflyers_; Tor Books'87___________________ 0-8125-4564-8
      R A MacAvoy _Tea with the Black Dragon_; ("mystery around a computer   \
                   fraud situation; computing bits ring true.")
 Vonda N McIntyre _Steelcollar Worker_; in Analog Nov'92; (blue-collar VR)
     Marge Piercy _Body of Glass_; Penguin'92, 584pp; (data piracy++) review \
                   finger "books=Body_of_Glass%danny"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au
 ---> David Pogue _Hard-Drive_; Diamond'93 $5, 304pp____________ 1-55773-884-X
                   (*programmer dies in accident, leaves no documentation    \
                   behind; software firms fight for market share with virii; \
                   "right out of the pages of MacWorld" --Steve Brock)
   Richard Powers _The Gold Bug Variations_; Morrow '91, (famous molecular   \
                   scientist ponders on the ?why? of love, life in EDP dept.)
      Paul Preuss _Human Error_; (nanotech computer infects brain-damaged kid)
    Thomas J Ryan _The Adolescence of P1_; ACE'79_______________ 0-671-55970-2
                   (runaway AI experiment takes over mainframes, wrecks havoc)
   Bruce Sterling _The Difference Engine_; (with W Gibson) Bantam'91; finger \
                   "books=The_Difference_Engine%danny"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au
      Cliff Stoll _The Cuckoo's Egg_; (non-fiction but reads like one); review
                   FTP <garbo.uwasa.fi>; /mac/tidbits/1991/tb048_18-Mar-91.etx
     Tom T Thomas _ME_; ("smart computers")
     Vernor Vinge _Across Realtime_; Baen Books_____________ [several titles \
     Vernor Vinge _Tatja Grimm's World_; Baen Books__________ soon available \
     Vernor Vinge _The Witling_; Baen Books___________________ as Millennium \
     Vernor Vinge _Threats and Other Promises_; Baen Books_____ Books in UK]
     Vernor Vinge _True Names & Other Dangers_; Baen Books'87___ 0-671-65363-6
     Vernor Vinge _A Fire Upon The Deep_; Tor Books, 640p, $6___ 0-8125-1528-5
                   ("essentially about the future of the Internet")
      John Varley _Press Enter_; ("Short story, gruesome, but good")
       Ed Yourdon _Silent Witness_; ("Computer crime caper story; gumshoe    \
                   has to explain intricacies of computer OS to girlfriend")
 Herbert W Franke _Das Zentrum der Milchstrasse_; ("the center of the galaxy")
 Herbert W Franke _Letzte Programmierer_; ("'the last programmer';           \
                   I do NOT mean Frank Herbert!")
       Emil Zopfi _Computer Fuer 1001 Nacht_; Limmat Verlag, Switzerland
       Emil Zopfi _Jede Minute Kostet 33 Franken_; (last 4 in German; last 2 \
                   "set in the commercial computing world of the early 70's")
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 current version of this list via `finger "scip+fi%danny"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au'
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 compiled 930424; % mail -s "additions/ comments/ updates --->" ianf@random.se
 ================ ============================================= ==============

     Statistical breakdown
--------------------------
 +-- --------------------- SciP+Fiction -----+------------+------------------+
 | # nominations /title    ~~~~~~~~~~~~         /author    # books nominated |
 +-- =========== ----------------------------+ =========== ================= +
 | 5 _The Adolescence of P-1_; Ryan          |    Vinge 10          6 titles |
 | 5 _Neuromancer_; Gibson                   |   Gibson 10          5 titles |
 | 4 _True Names and Other Dangers_; Vinge   |     Ryan  5 _The Adolescence..|
 | 4 _Shockwave Rider_; Brunner              |  Brunner  4 _Shockwave Rider_ |
 | 4 _When H.A.R.L.I.E was One_; Gerrold     |  Gerrold  4 _When H.A.R.L.I.E.|
 | 4 _A Fire Upon The Deep_; Vinge           |    Hogan  3          3 titles |
 | 2 _Threats and Other Promises_; Vinge     |      Lem  3 _Fiasco_HMV_Solar.|
 +-- ----------------------------------------+ ----------- ----------------- +
 | # total nominations: 85; authors: 27; female: 5?6; sent in by: 42 readers |
 +======== ================ ============ ============ =======================+

       Contributions by [unsorted FIFO]:
----------------------------------------
 From: sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock)
 From: "John Lacey" <johnl@cs.indiana.edu>
 From: malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy)
 From: thom kevin gillespie <thom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
 From: Paul Christopher Workman <pw0l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
 From: kellys@code3.code3.com (Kelly Sorensen)
 From: whughes@lonestar.utsa.edu (William W. Hughes)
 From: North_TJ@cc.curtin.edu.au (Tim North)
 From: LORETI@FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Maurizio Loreti)
 From: Stephen Hart <stephenh@cs.mun.ca>
 From: Duane F Marble <dmarble@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
 From: Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch>
 From: Wolfram Wagner <ww@mpi-sb.mpg.de>
 From: webb@tsavo.HKS.COM (Peter Webb)
 From: setzer@ssd.comm.mot.com (Thomas Setzer)
 From: kevles@acf3.NYU.EDU (Beth Kevles)
 From: dp@world.std.com (Jeff DelPapa)
 From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
 From: hartman@uLogic.com (Richard Hartman)
 From: Vernor Vinge <vinge%saturn@sdsu.edu>
 From: Paul Lebeau <plebeau@cix.compulink.co.uk>
 From: "Lawrence Rounds" <ljr@beach.cis.ufl.edu>
 From: phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu (David Weingart)
 From: chgs02@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (By learning+courtesy)
 From: Rowan Fairgrove <rowanf@cache.crc.ricoh.com>
 From: peterc@suite.sw.oz.au.sw.oz.au (Peter Chubb,x114,6982322,3982735)
 From: Gara Pruesse <gara@cs.toronto.edu>
 From: russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz)
 From: ahm@spatula.rent.com (Andreas Meyer)
 From: jon@cs.washington.edu (Jon Jacky)
 From: eugene@nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
 From: "A.M.MAIR" <CHGS02@VAXB.STRATHCLYDE.AC.UK>
 From: mengel@dcdmwm.fnal.gov (Marc Mengel)
 From: Roger Scowen <rss@seg.npl.co.uk>
 From: kevino@clbooks.com (Kevin Oster -- System Administrator)
 From: chavey@cs.wisc.edu (Darrah Chavey)
 From: Vonda McIntyre <mcintyre@cpac.washington.edu>
 From: Bruce Sterling <bruces@well.sf.ca.us>
 From: "Scott Thomas Yabiku" <yabi@midway.uchicago.edu>
 From: Thomas Adshead <uad1212@dircon.co.uk>
 From: Paul Andrews <76050.161@CompuServe.COM>
 ===== ======================================= ---------> MUCHO thanks to all!


Last year Brein Taylor was in A ball, probably at Tampa in the
Florida State League.  I believe he began this year in AA which
is Albany.  Hopefully George won't rush him and he'll be
allowed to progress at his own rate to AAA and then to the
Bronx.  This guy is the real thing.


Jesus:

Black and white.  A spade is a spade.  There is no hidden
agenda behind this, so stop trying to look for one.   It is an
easy and as straight forward as it reads.

Kent, I am not accusing you of evil things.  Jesus is accusing you.
And it is not only you that He is accusing.  He is accusing everyone.
Me, you and everyone in the world is guilty.  Whether one
sees the light or does not seen the light has nothing to do with
whether we do evil things.  We do them regardless.

Jesus uses the word "men".  I am included.  Jesus is not soloing you out.
Jesus is making a general statement about out the sad state of man.
Christians are not immuned from doing evil things.  A Christian
is just a person in whom the Holy Spirit indwells.  A Christian
can see the evil he is doing--because his evil has been brought
out into the light.  Jesus is not saying that just because evil has been
exposed, that the Christian will stop doing evil.  If you haven't
seen Jesus's light, your evil deeds simply haven't been
exposed to the His light.  You may shed some light on your
own.  Your human spirit shines at perhaps 1 candela.  But the
Holy Spirit shines at a Megacandela.  The Holy Spirit can
shine light into places inside us where we didn't even know
existed.

So do you see Jesus's point?  Christians are not perfect.  Nonchristians
are not perfect.  Nonchristians do not want to come into the
Light of Jesus because they will see all the problems in their lives,
and they will not like the sight.  It is an ugly thing to see how far
we have fallen from Jesus's perspective.  Do you think you want to
know how really ignorant you are?  Do you think Brian Kendig wants
to know?  Do you think I want to know?  Ego verses the truth,
which do you choose?

And I watched Koresh too, an imposter who thought he saw the light,
who made sure that the 19 children burned to death, sadly, as part
of his delusion.  It is even sadder that the people who
died with him chose to die with them, and that ignorance was
their downfall to death.

And Kent, don't you bury yourself underneath a rock with an
excuse like bringing up Koresh--as if Koresh actually had truth in him.
David Koresh was no light and no excuse for
you to stay away from the real Jesus Christ.  David Koresh, who
claimed to be Jesus, was a fraud.  It was obvious.  David Koresh
was born in America. Jesus was born in Bethlehem.  Koresh wasn't
even a good imposter having missed an obvious point as that.

Jesus warned of such imposters in the end-times.  David
Koresh wasn't anything new to Jesus.  Jesus told us to be
aware of imposters 2000 years ago.

So the next time an imposter makes a scene and claims to
be Jesus.  Ask the obvious.  Where were you born?  Was your
mother's name Mary?  If the Branch Davidians asked that
simple question, they would have labeled Koresh a liar
right from the start.  The wouldn't have followed Koresh.
They wouldn't have died.  But look what happened.  Their
ignorance cost them their lives.  Their choice to be ignorant
cost them a lot.

Kent, since you studied the Bible under Lutheranism, do you
not remember what tactic Satan used to try to tempt Jesus?
Did not Satan quote the Bible out of context?  Do you
remember what tactic the serpent of Genesis used to tempt
Eve?  Did he not misquote God?  What Satan used on Eve and succeeded,
was the same ploy he tried on Jesus.  But in Jesus's case,
Jesus rebuked Satan back with the Bible _in_ context.  It
didn't work with Jesus.

Does what Satan did to Eve in the Garden and what Satan
tried to do with Jesus in the desert remind you of what
Koresh did to his followers?  Who did Koresh emulate?
Who was Koresh's teacher?  Koresh did to his followers what
Satan did to Eve.  Did not Koresh kill his followersr?  Did
not Satan cause Adam and Eve to die as well?  Did not
the cult followers believe Koresh even though they knew
the real Christ was born in Bethlehem?   Did not Eve
choose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and
evil despite knowing that it would cause her death?  God
held them all responsible--deceiver and the rebeller.  None
of them had an excuse.


Yes, there is:  consumer confusion.  In the early 80's with the
fuel crisis, etc., everyone wanted better fuel mileage.  Diesel fuel
was the cheapest fuel available and usually provides better mileage
than comparable gasoline engines.  So, GM decided to conver their
350 gas engine into a diesel engine (I think was a 5.7 liter).  Big
mistake.  The engine was not redesigned, but converted.  The engine
could not handle the higher compression, etc.  Lots of problems with
these cars.  This thew up a big red flag to the casual observer --
DON"T BUY A DIESEL.  THEY ARE BAD.  This was a gross generalization.

Ask yourself this question -- if your livelihood depended on driving,
LOTS of it, would you use a dependable or undependable (but cheaper
in the short run) vehicle?  What do Greyhound busses have in them?
Trailer Trucks?  Even Train Locomotives?  Are these gasoline engines?
No, they are diesel.  Tractor trailer truck manufacturers provide a
500,000 mile warrantee with they vehicles.

I own an `82 Diesel Suburban.  The 6.2L diesel is a GREAT engine.
Just keeps going.  It was more expensive (when new) than the gasoline
engine vehicle was.  The only problem with diesel engines is that
when they need to be rebuilt, they are expensive.  In a gas 350
engine, you will pay about $1000 for a rebuild.  Diesel 6.2L is about
$2000.  But then again, the diesel engine lasts about twice as long
and gets about 50% better mileage.  A carburator for a gasoline engine
costs about $100 to rebuild (or less).  A rebuild of the fuel injection
pump on a diesel will cost about $500 (or more).  But then again,
you never need a tune-up.

If you're looking at a rebuilt 6.2L, I'd say you got a great deal.
Check to see if the fuel injection pump was rebuilt also.


IMO, a Christian has no need of weapons.  I know it is very contrary to the
American NRA ethos of the right to bear arms, but Christians should rely on
the strength of God to protect them.  Note that I say *should*.  We are
inherently insecure but I feel that that is not proper justification to be
armed to the teeth.  A Christian should not have to rely on physical weapons
to defend himself.  A Christian should rely on his faith and intelligence.
For instance, I have the faith that God will protect me but God also gave
me the intelligence to know not to go walking down that dark alley at night.
To jump off a cliff and say that God will save me would be putting God to the
test.  And who are we to test God?

God be with you,


I'm from Dallas, and you have alot of nerve saying that WFAN has a bunch of
Hoodlum Mets fans.  During the football season, the local cowboy station here
had the WIP on several times for simultanious broadcasts.  I have never heard
a bigger bunch of low intellect, bed wetting ,obnoxious, woofing, cranial
deformed, assholes in my entire life!  The IQ of the average eagles fan must
be in the 10-15 range at best, and they have been known to be big droolers.

(Please no flames) ... <let's see if it works for me Bob>  ;-)


I am selling a one way ticket from Washington DC to Champaign, IL ( the
home of the University of Illinois).  Am willing to offer a good price.

If you are interested, please email me at:  eshneken@uiuc.edu


Here are some corrections and additions to Hellman's note, courtesy of
Dorothy Denning.  Again, this is reposted with permission.

Two requests -- first, note the roles of S1 and S2.  It appears to me
and others that anyone who knows those values can construct the unit
key.  And the nature of the generation process for K1 and K2 is such
that neither can be produced alone.  Thus, the scheme cannot be
implemented such that one repository generates the first half-key, and
another generates the second.  *That* is ominous.

Second -- these postings are not revealed scripture, nor are they
carefully-crafted spook postings.  Don't attempt to draw out hidden
meanings (as opposed to, say, the official announcements of Clipper).
Leave Denning out of this; given Hellman's record of opposition to DES,
which goes back before some folks on this newsgroup knew how to read, I
don't think you can impugn his integrity.

Oh yeah -- the folks who invented Clipper aren't stupid.  If you think
something doesn't make sense, it's almost certainly because you don't
understand their goals.

		--Steve Bellovin

-----

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 07:56:39 EDT
From: denning@cs.georgetown.edu (Dorothy Denning)
Subject: Re:  Clipper Chip
To: (a long list of folks)

I was also briefed by the NSA and FBI, so let me add a few comments to
Marty's message:

        The Clipper Chip will have a secret crypto algorithm embedded in

The algorithm operates on 64-bit blocks (like DES) and the chip supports
all 4 DES modes of operation.  The algorithm uses 32 rounds of scrambling
compared with 16 in DES.

	In addition to the system key, each user will get to choose his
	or her own key and change it as often as desired. Call this key
	plain old K. When a message is to be sent it will first be

K is the session key shared by the sender and receiver.  Any method
(e.g., public key) can be used to establish the session key.  In the
AT&T telephone security devices, which will have the new chip, the key
is negotiated using a public-key protocol.

	encrypted under K, then K will be encrypted under the unit key UK,
	and the serial number of the unit added to produce a three part
	message which will then be encrypted under the system key SK
	producing

	     E{ E[M; K], E[K; UK], serial number;  SK}

My understanding is that E[M; K] is not encrypted under SK (called the
"family key") and that the decrypt key corresponding to SK is held by
law enforcement.  Does anyone have first hand knowledge on this?  I
will also check it out, but this is 7am Sunday so I did not want to wait.

        The unit key
	will be generated as the XOR of two 80-bit random numbers K1
	and K2 (UK=K1+K2) which will be kept by the two escrow

The unit key, also called the "chip key," is generated from the
serial number N as follows.  Let N1, N2, and N3 be 64 bit blocks
derived from N, and let S1 and S2 be two 80-bit seeds used as keys.
Compute the 64-bit block

        R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1]

(Note that this is like using the DES in triple encryption mode with
two keys.)  Similarly compute blocks R2 and R3 starting with N2 and N3.
(I'm unlear about whether the keys S1 and S2 change.  The fact that
they're called seeds suggests they might.)  Then R1, R2, and R3 are
concatenated together giving 192 bits.  The first 80 bits  form K1 and
the next 80 bits form K2.  The remaining bits are discarded.

	authorities. Who these escrow authorities will be is still to be
	decided by the Attorney General, but it was stressed to me that
	they will NOT be NSA or law enforcement agencies, that they
	must be parties acceptable to the users of the system as unbiased.

Marty is right on this and the FBI has asked me for suggestions.
Please pass them to me along with your reasons.  In addition to Marty's
criteria, I would add that the agencies must have an established record
of being able to safeguard highly sensitive information.  Some suggestions
I've received so far include SRI, Rand, Mitre, the national labs (Sandia,
LANL, Los Alamos), Treasury, GAO.

	When a court order obtains K1 and K2, and thence K, the law
	enforcement agency will use SK to decrypt all information
	flowing on the suspected link [Aside: It is my guess that
	they may do this constantly on all links, with or without a
	court order, since it is almost impossible to tell which links
	over which a message will flow.]

My understanding is that there will be only one decode box and that it
will be operated by the FBI.  The service provider will isolate the
communications stream and pass it to the FBI where it will pass through
the decode box, which will have been keyed with K.

	for "the wiretap authorizations." When Levy asked for
	the details so he could review the cases as required by
	law, the agent told him that his predecessors just turned
	over 40-50 blank, signed forms every time. Levi did not
        comply and changed the system, but the lesson is clear:
        No single person or authority should have the power to
        authorize wiretaps

No single person does, at least for FBI taps.  After completing a mound
of paperwork, an agent must get the approval of several people on a chain
that includes FBI legal counsel before the request is even taken to the
Attorney General for final approval.


I am in the midst of designing a project which requires two motors and an LED
illuminator driven with Pulse-width modulation.  I'm using the 8751, and
I understand that the -FB version has a programmable counter array that can
essentially be set and forgotten to do the PWM.  The problems is, that variant
is difficult to come by.  I need two or three of the D prefix (ceramic window)
version for development, and then lots of the P prefix (plastic OTP) for later
production.  I've tried Avnet, Arrow, and Pioneer.  They (might) have them, but
I'm looking for samples at this point, and they're not too willing to provide
them.  I would buy them, but these vendors have $100.00 minimums.

Any help is appreciated.


As many people have mentioned, there is no reason why insurers could not
offer a contract without abortion services for a different premium.
The problem is that there is no guarantee that this premium would be
lower for those who chose this type of contract.  Although you are
removing one service, that may have feedbacks into other types of covered
care which results in a net increase in actuarial costs.

For an illustrative example in the opposite direction, it may be possible
to ADD services to an insurance contract and REDUCE the premium.  If you
add preventative services and this reduces acute care use, then the total
premium may fall.


As John Gilmore has pointed out repeatedly, if you produce the
infrastructure that would permit a police state to function, all that
is required to suddenly find yourself living in one is a change of
attitude on the part of the government.

Our constitution was built by men who had to risk their lives to
ensure freedom in our country. They designed the system to make it
difficult for tyranny to arise. For instance, one of the reasons the
fourth amendment was put there was to make it harder for the
government to try to make smuggling a crime. Think I jest? John
Hancock made all his money smuggling rum, which is, after all, a drug.

Think about it. The government has everyones keys in escrow, and the
FBI gets their pet "wiretap without leaving the office" scheme. There
is a coup, which happens every day all around the world. Within hours,
everyone in the country who might oppose the tyrants is being
monitored more closely than ever before possible.

Without the tools being in place, a tyranny cannot stand. With tools
like this in place, a tyrannical dictatorship could actually be
successfully imposed.

Why give the government tools with which to enslave you? Maybe you can
trust Bill Clinton, but are you willing to tell me that you can trust
EVERY government that will ever arise in the U.S. hereafter? I am not
willing to make that leap of faith.

I'm a political dissident. As such, I am acutely aware of what happens
to political dissidents in most of the world. In most of the world, I
could be killed for my beliefs. Call Amnesty International some time
to find out what happens to dissidents in most of the world.

All that seperates the U.S. from most of those places is a thin piece
of parchment in the National Archives thats being constantly more and
more eroded by such farces as the war on drugs. Coups have happened in
countries that have had stable democracies for over a hundred years.
Governments throughout history have fallen. No government has lasted
for more than a few hundred years. Often, they are replaced by
dictatorships. Do you really believe so intensely that it could never
ever ever happen here that you are willing to bet your own life and
the lives of your children and other loved ones on it?

If we construct the tools with which tyranny could be enforced, we
make it orders of magnitude more likely that it could happen, because
if it happened with the tools already in place it could actually
stick.

Naive fools such as our leadership believe they can protect us where
hundreds that have gone before have failed. Thriving democracies led
by men far more skillfull than Bill Clinton have fallen to
dictatorship. Rome had a thriving republic run by exquisitely skilled
men before they became a tyranny.

I, for one, am unwilling to trust that it could never happen here.
Only hubris would allow us to believe we are immune to what has
happened elsewhere.

--
Perry Metzger		pmetzger@shearson.com


It is just as Christ said about his return:

"Some will say, 'He is in the desert.' or some will say, 'He is in the
wilderness.'  But do not believe them.  For as lightning flashes east to
west so shall the coming of the Son of Man be."
                                         { My paraphrase - I think the
verse is
                                           somewhere in John }

Jon

----------------
sig file broken....

please try later...


The media is beating the incident at Dodger Stadium on Wednesday to
death, but I haven't seen anything in rsb yet.

Gerald Perry of the Cardinals pinch hit in the eighth inning with two
on and his club down by a run.  He stroked a line drive into the
right field corner.  The ball cleared the three-foot high fence and
went into the crowd.  Darryl, racing over from right center, got to
the spot in time to reach his glove up over the short fence, but he
missed the ball.  A fan sitting in the front row, wearing a mitt,
reached up and caught the ball.  Home run.

Now I've seen the replay several times and I have concluded that
Darryl missed the ball, and that the fan's glove was essentially
behind Darryl's.  Several Dodger fans with seats in the immediate
vicinity have claimed that the fan unquestionably interfered with
Strawberry.  What cannot be disputed, however, is that the fan
who caught the ball never took his eye off it;  he was oblivious
to where the fielder was playing.  He was also quite exuberant as
soon as he realized he had made the catch.

That exuberance disappeared immediately, however, when Strawberry
went into a tirade at the man.  All reports indicate he used a lot
of profanity and accused the man of interference, and therefore of
costing the Dodgers a game.  Shortly afterwards other fans hurled
food and beverages toward the man who made the catch.  Dodger Stadium
officials started to remove him from the park, but then relented and
just relocated him to another area.  In an interview after the game,
Lasorda blamed the fan for the loss.  Strawberry also went into a
tirade about how the fans are stupid and they don't care about
winning.  L.A. Times columnists similarly blasted the man who made
the catch.

Before each Dodger game the public address announcer makes a speech
wherein he says that fans are welcome to the souvenirs of balls that
are hit into the stands as long as they do not interfere with any
that are in the field of play.  Was the fan wrong?  Should he have
been more aware of the situation and acted to avoid any possibility
of interference?  Or was he human and just reacting?  By the way, he
is a season ticket holder and on his request the Dodgers have relocated
his seats to another area of the Stadium where future interference is
impossible.

Others have questioned why Darryl should be so concerned with what
the fan did when he has a grand total of 1 rbi through the first
nine games.

I question what he was doing in right center with a left-handed pull
hitter up and the game on the line.  Had he been closer to the play,
he certainly would have had a much better chance of catching the ball.

But I guess the big debate continues as to what are the responsibilities
of the fan.

--	The Beastmaster


Hello Brad!

Monday April 26 1993 17:24, Brad Smalling wrote to (crosspost 1) All:

 BS> For a VGA card these are the correct files but you can't just copy them
 BS> back and expect it to work.  You have to create a new WIN.COM file.  Try
 BS> the command (you will have to worry about what directories each file is in
 BS> since I don't know your setup):

 BS> COPY /B WIN.CNF+VGALOGO.LGO+VGALOGO.RLE WIN.COM

 BS> (I grabbed this from _Supercharging Windows_ by Judd Robbins--great book)
 BS> This is also how you can put your own logo into the Windows startup
 BS> screen. An RLE file is just a specially compressed BMP file.

Brad,
    What is the procedure used to 'specially' compress the BMP file?  I would
love to use some of my BMP files I have created as a logo screen.  Thanks

Chris