        Well, lets see....I took a class on this last fall, and I have no
notes so I'll try to wing it...
        Here's how I understand it. Remember from stellar evolution that
black holes and neutron stars(pulsars) are formed from high mass stars,
M(star)=1.4M(sun).  High mass stars live fast and burn hard, taking
appoximately 10^5-10^7 years before going nova, or supernova.  In this time,
they don't live long enough to get perturbed out of the galactic plane, so any
of these (if assumed to be the sources of GRB's) will be in the plane of the
galaxy.
        Then we take the catalog of bursts that have been recieved from the
various satellites around the solar system, (Pioneer Venus has one, either
Pion. 10 or 11, GINGA, and of course BATSE) and we do distribution tests on our
catalog.  These tests all  show, that the bursts have an isotropic
distribution(evenly spread out in a radial direction), and they show signs of
homogeneity, i.e. they do not clump in any one direction.  So, unless we are
sampling the area inside the disk of the galaxy, we are sampling the UNIVERSE.
Not cool, if you want to figure out what the hell caused these things.  Now, I
suppose you are saying, "Well, we stil only may be sampling from inside the
disk."  Well, not necessarily.  Remember, we have what is more or less an
interplanetary network of burst detectors with a baseline that goes waaaay out
to beyond Pluto(pioneer 11), so we should be able, with all of our detectors de
tect some sort of difference in angle from satellite to satellite.  Here's an
analogy:  You see a plane overhead.  You measure the angle of the plane from
the origin of your arbitrary coordinate system.  One of your friends a mile
away sees the same plane, and measures the angle from the zero point of his
arbitrary system, which is the same as yours.  The two angles are different,
and you should be able to triangulate the position of your burst, and maybe
find a source.  To my knowledge, no one has been able to do this.
        I should throw in why halo, and corona models don't work, also.  As I
said before, looking at the possible astrophysics of the bursts, (short
timescales, high energy) black holes, and pulsars exhibit much of this type of
behavior.  If this is the case, as I said before, these stars seem to be bound
to the disk of the galaxy, especially the most energetic of the these sources.
When you look at a simulated model, where the bursts are confined to the disk,
but you sample out to large distances, say 750 mpc, you should definitely see
not only an anisotropy towards you in all direction, but a clumping of sources
in the direction of the  galactic center.  As I said before, there is none of
these characteristics.


Sorry, _perijoves_...I'm not used to talking this language.


Find an encyclopedia. Volume H. Now look up Hitler, Adolf. He had
many more people than just Germans enamoured with him.

P.


I have a Bel-966.
I just looked at the manual yesterday... and it does indeed claim to be
undetectable by RDD's.


/(hudson)
/If all morality were relative- big hairy deal.

As I said, you appear to be the only person saying that all morality
is relative.  Most people I know do hold some absolutes in their
moral system.

I >>personally<< believe that the dignity of the individual and the right
of free will are absolutes.  I recognize that there are some moral
systems around which don't accept this; I reject them as dangerous
and anti-social (nazism, some forms of communism, fundamentalist
xtianity--no, that's not a slam).  But for the most part, almost
every moral system agrees on these two points.

(me)

/(hudson)
/Generally, Christians believe in a Creator-Creation distinction.  Other
/religions believe in one big whole.   I don't accept yor premises.

Too bad.  I know I'm right, so I get to enforce my view upon you whether
you like my premise or not.  And since you can't prove otherwise, there
isn't even an intellectual basis for your resistance to accepting my
viewpoint.

/(hudson)
/I don't think so.  once morality becomes relative, it degenerates.  I am
/saying that reasoning that it is generally evil to hurt other people is bad.
/(though I don't think it is sufficient.)

Well, then answer me this:   you seem to be opposed to moral relativism
(as you call it) because it has the capacity to degenerate.  Obviously,
then, you would advocate a nonrelative (absolute) moral system.

Whose absolutist moral system do we choose?

How do we come to this decision?

What about people who disagree with the chosen moral system?

/(hudson)
/But if morality is considered to
/be relative, and this rule isn't based on anything, but is just an arbitrary
/rule, people might abandon it.

Fine.  I can agree with most of what you typed here.  However, just because
morality gets based on something nonrelative does NOT mean that we have to
pick your xtianity as its base.


Hi,
	I am buying a Quantum LPS240AT 245 MB hardisk and is deciding a
	HDD/FDD controller. Is 32-bit VL-bus HDD/FDD controller faster
	than 16 bit IDE HDD/FDD controller card? I hear that
	the VL bus controller is SLOWER than a IDE controller?
	Which one is true?

	Please shed some light by email or post.
	Thanks a lot.

Best regards,

 ____________________________________________________________________________


There is a library of map projections in:

    charon.er.usgs.gov

in


930420

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The word of Sin is Restriction.

Sorry, the San Jose based Rosicrucian order is called A.M.O.R.C,
I don't remember for the time being what the A.M. stand for
but O.R.C is Ordo Rosae Crucis, in other words latin for
Order of the Rose Cross.

Response:

Yes, very true.  The entire title is 'The Ancient and Mystical Order
 Rosae Crucis'.  They are located at 1342 Naglee Avenue, San Jose,
California, 95191-0001, USA.

They are considered different and largely unrelated by a number of
sources.  I've seen documentation which links them through the figure
of H. Spencer Lewis.  Lewis was apparently involved with Reuss, who
was the O.H.O. of Ordo Templi Orientis for many years.  Apparently it
is also true that Lewis had a charter to form an O.T.O. body and then
created A.M.O.R.C. (as a subsidiary?  an interesting question).

Kent:

Otherwise their headquarters in San Jose has a pretty decent
metaphysical bookstore, if any of you are interested in such books.
And my son loves to run around in their Egyptian museum.

Response:

Indeed, and diagonally across the street is another metaphysical
book store called 'Ram Metaphysical', wherein I've purchased some
wonderful works by Crowley and others.  Ram Metaphysical Books,
1749 Park Ave., San Jose, CA.  (408) 294-2651.

Invoke me under my stars.  Love is the law, love under will.

I am I!


Not quite. 66MHz Pentium - 65 SPECint92, 57 SPECfp92 .
	   66MHz MC98601 - 50 SPECint92, 80 SPECfp92 .

Note that SPECint is more important for most real world applications.

As far as the 486DX2-66 goes - 32 SPECint92, 16 SPECfp92 .

Intel chips have traditionally been faster than their Motorola "equivalents"
although the significance of chip speed in real world application performance
is something that is highly debatable.

--
Ravikumar Venkateswar
rvenkate@uiuc.edu


   I need (probably) to write one or more new Motif widgets on the HP-UX
   platform. Do I need the Motif private header files and source,
   or can I make do with the public headers that are provided?
   "Motif" includes Xt in this context.

Yes.  You'll find it almost impossible without the source
at this point.  It does depend on how ambitious you are and
how concerned you are about compliance with the general
interface and items like traversal.

   One widget is a multi-column list (which lots of people have
   already written, I am sure), and would therefore be probably be
   a subclass of List rather than something simple like an Xt class.
   Is this more difficult (in principle, not lines of code)?

I'm not sure what you're asking.  You could create something
which is very much like a true multi-column list by placing
several lists within a geometry manager,  and putting that
manager within an automatic scrolled window.  This wouldn't
be good for very large lists,  but you might consider this
as an alternative.

   Alternatively, if anyone has a multi-column list widget they
   could sell me, this might save me from having to write one!
   Does it by any chance exist in Motif 1.2 already (I do not
   yet have the spec)?

Motif 1.2 does not have a multi-column list in it.  Have you
looked at commercial sets?  There are also some PD
widget sets,  one of these might have a multi-column list
you could port.


Oh, that must explain Matthew 18:

1) In that hour came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, "Who then is greatest in
the kingdom of heaven?"
2) And he called to him a little child, and set him in the midst of them,
3) and said, "Verily I say unto you, Except ye turn, and become as little
children, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
14) Even so it is not the will of your father who is in heaven, that one of these
little ones should perish.

Nice thing about the Bible, you don't have to invent a bunch of convoluted
rationalizations to understand it, unlike your arguments for original sin. Face
it, original sin was thought up long after the Bible had been written and has no
basis from the scriptures.


May I suggest the book: "Ethics" by Dr. Norm Geisler, of Dallas Theological
Seminary.  In it, he goes over all the arguments pro and con and in-between,
and comes up with a very reasonable answer.  If I have time, and there is
enough interest, I may post his position.

Jon Noring

--

Charter Member --->>>  INFJ Club.


[deleted]
think:
[deleted]
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Let me first say that "to believe that no gods exist" is in fact
different than "not believing in a god or gods".

I will argue that your latter statement, "I believe that no gods exist"
does rest upon faith - that is, if you are making a POSITIVE statement
that "no gods exist" (strong atheism) rather than merely saying I don't
know and therefore don't believe in them and don't NOT believe in then
(weak atheism). Once again, to not believe in God is different than saying
I BELIEVE that God does not exist. I still maintain the position, even
after reading the FAQs, that strong atheism requires faith.

But first let me say the following.
We might have a language problem here - in regards to "faith" and
"existence". I, as a Christian, maintain that God does not exist.
To exist means to have being in space and time. God does not HAVE
being - God IS Being. Kierkegaard once said that God does not
exist, He is eternal. With this said, I feel it's rather pointless
to debate the so called "existence" of God - and that is not what
I'm doing here. I believe that God is the source and ground of
being. When you say that "god does not exist", I also accept this
statement - but we obviously mean two different things by it. However,
in what follows I will use the phrase "the existence of God" in it's
'usual sense' - and this is the sense that I think you are using it.
I would like a clarification upon what you mean by "the existence of
God".

We also might differ upon what it means to have faith. Here is what

faith
1a: allegiance to duty or a person: LOYALTY
b  (1): fidelity to one's promises
   (2): sincerity of intentions
2a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God
   (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b  (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   (2): complete trust
3: something that is believed esp. with strong conviction; esp: a system
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of religious beliefs
syn see BELIEF

One can never prove that God does or does not exist. When you say
that you believe God does not exist, and that this is an opinion
"based upon observation", I will have to ask "what observtions are
you refering to?" There are NO observations - pro or con - that
are valid here in establishing a POSITIVE belief. All observations
can only point you in a direction - a direction that we might even
be predisposed to (by predisposed I mean, for example, people whoes
partents "believe in God" also tend to). To actually draw a conclusion
about the "existence" or "non-existence" of God requires a leap - and
you have made this leap when you actively say "I believe that God
does/does not exist". Personally, I think that both statements are
misguided. Arguing over the "existence" of God is precisely the wrong way
to find Him (and yes, I use "Him" because a personal God is the only
viable concept (IMO) - if a person wants to use "She" go ahead. Of course
God is neither He nor She - but we have no choice but to
anthropomorphise. If you want me to explain myself further I'll be
glad to.)

And please, if someone does not agree with me - even if they violently
disagree - it's in no ones advantage to start name calling. If a person
thinks I've misunderstood something in the FAQs, or if they they think
I have not read them well enough, just point out to me the error of my
ways and I correct the situation. I'm interested in a polite and well
thought out discussion.


--

I would like to be able to detect the angular position (low accuracy) of an
IR emitting source at a distance of about 100 meters (more is better) in
daylight.  The IR source could be emitting a signature; I'm leaning toward
30 KHz square wave with 50% duty cycle.

I am considering the use of a quadrant detector from Centronic Inc. to give
information to a pan/tilt head to point the sensor and thus determine the
angles.  For the source I am considering wazing the heck out of an IR LED(s),
possibly an Optek OP290 or Motorola MLED81.  Wazing would mean at least 1 Amp
current pulses.  At this current the duty cycle of the LED drops to 10% and I
would need to cycle five of them in turn to get the 50% required.

Has anyone done something like this?


I am one of those people who always willl have unlimited stores of unfounded
respect for people who have been on newsgroups/mailing lists longer than I
have, so you certainly have my sympathy Tom.  I have only been semi-regularly
posting (it is TOUGHto keep up) since this February, but I have been reading
and following the threads since last August: my school's newsreader was down
for months and our incompetent computing services never bothered to find a new
feed site, so it wasn't accepting outgoing postings.  I don't think anyone
keeps track of where other posters go: it's that old love 'em and leave 'em
Internet for you again...

best regards,


A friend has the following symptoms which have occurred periodically
every few months for the last 3 years.  An episode begins with extreme
tiredness followed by:

	1. traveling joint pains and stiffness affecting mostly the elbows,
	knees, and hips.
	2. generalized muscle pains
	3. tinnitus and a feeling of pressure in her ears
	4. severe sweating occuring both at night and during the day
	5. hemorrhaging in both eyes.  Her opthamologist calls it peripheral
   retinal hemorhages and says it looks similar to diabetic retinopathy.  (She
        isn't diabetic--they checked.
	6. distorted color vision and distorted vision in general (telephone
	   poles do not appear to be straight)
	7. loss of peripheral vision.

	Many tests have been run and all are normal except for something
called unidentified bright objects found on a MRI of her brain.  The only
thing that seems to alleviate one of these episodes is prednisone.  At
times she had been on 60 mg per day.  Whenever she gets down to 10-15 mg
the symptoms become acute again.


The best auto-shifters on the street (AND NOT THE TRACK) are those from
Porsche... they wont change if you floor the gas during a turn.... a few
years back a was in a 200SX auto (you guys call it a 240SX [without turbo])
and was going round a corner.... I floored it and next thing I know I was
pointing backwards! The other drivers seemed quite amused ;-)


if
team!
Yeah but Soderstrom's mask has always appeared to be a lot bigger than the
average helmet-and-cage variety.  It has a certain appeal on its own

josh


Yo--earth to Clayton--*my* philosophy?  I have never discussed this with you.
I know it's a minor point, but, gee, dude, you have no idea what economic
and political principles I adhere to.  But don't let that stop you--you're on a
roll.  Just ascribe to me whatever you want--I know you'll choose wisely.
After all, I *do* believe in personal responsibility.

Duh.  What else would you *expect* a socialist to do?

(a) Just when and where have I encouraged people not to be responsible
for themselves?  Be specific--but do make up random dates and heinous
acts as you see fit.

(b) You and I have encouraged many people to do many things.  How does that
in any way make our audiences less responsible for their actions?  Is there
a finite amount of responsibility, so (cf. conservation of energy) as
I become more responsible for an occurrence by encouraging it the actual
perpetrator becomes correspondingly less so?  At what point does the
perpetrator become completely innocent altogether?  You know, this lends
a whole new meaning to the term "the moral high ground".

I will pass the info on.  Out of curiosity, what kind of jobs would these
be?  What's the demographic mix wrt race, age, culture?

Life's a bitch, ain't it?  Man, you've got to get out of Fornicalia--have
you considered someplace perhaps geographically distant but politically
more friendly to you, like, say, Indiana?  Or maybe Utah?

I don't doubt it, but unless you can show me statistics to the contrary
I will persist in my apparently dogmatic socialist belief (hey, if *you* say
so) that most AFDC money really does--for better or worse in the long
term--feed FDCs.


Could somebody please tell me if there is a Dodgers newsletter on the Net,
and if so how to subscribe?  Thanks,
Joel


I'm looking for the following paper:

Marlow, S. and Powell, M.J.D.
A FORTRAN subroutine for plotting the part of a conic that is inside a given
triangle. Rep. R-8336, Atomic Energy Res. Establishment, Harwell, England
1976

Or anything related (including 3D cases)
 Max
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Max Froumentin                    |
Laboratoire d'Informatique        |  "Always better, never first."
Fondamentale de Lille             |         - Tigran Petrossian
France                            |


Recently, my video monitor went dead, no picture, some low distorted sound.
I didn't hear the tell-tale cracking that indicated HV at work, nor are the
filaments at the far end of the tube glowing orange, just nothing.

On examining the power board, I noticed the largest capacitor with a very
bad bulge at the top.  Naturally, I want to replace it, but I can't find
any sources.

The electrolytic capacitor is 330 mF at 250WV.  It has radial leads, and is
roughly 1 1/2 inches long, 1 1/8" wide.  The dimensions are important since
the whole board fits in a metal cage, leaving little room.

Living in the Los Angeles area, I've been to numerous stores (Dow Radio,
All Electronics, ITC Elect, Sandy's, Yale Elect) with empty hands.

Can anyone suggest sources for high-voltage capacitors?  Mail order is
fine, although I'd rather check out a store to compare the can.  I'm going
to try a video electronics store, hopefully they'll have HV caps.

(By the way, the monitor is a ATARI SC1224, Goldstar circuitry, Masushita
tube.  Anyone else had problems?)

Thanks in advance,
Rich K.


	The only way out seems to be death.

---

  " I'd Cheat on Hillary Too."


Just doing a quick reality check here - is this for real or did someone
invent it to provoke a reaction from people?  It sounds more like the
sort of thing you'd have heard, suitably rephrased, from the leader of a
certain German political party in the 1930's....


Howdy! I'm just posting this for a friend so don't reply to me!

    I have a friend who has some 1x9 SIMMS for sale, 8MB for $250 or 4MB for
125$. He also has a Conner 170MB hard drive for $250. It runs at 14ms. His name
is John and he can be reached at his BBS called Classified Connection at
(614)575-1345, he is the Sysop, and you can call him and hear his awesome voice
at (614)577-9673.
          Adios


Bad driving habits can damage a car in a couple of months, not 6 years.

If that were not the case, everyone would be driving fleet rental re-solds...

And while you are considering things (factors in stat terms), how about
city vs. highway driving ratios, owner vs. dealer service, extreme weather
or environment, adherence (sp?) to maintenance schedules, whether the car
has ever been in an accident, number of different drivers of the same car
in a family, whether the car is garaged, warmed up, ...

Spiros


I would really like to get one of the new CD300i CDROM
drives for my c650, but my local Apple doesn't know
when they will be available.  He doesn't even have a part
number yet.   Does anyone know what the part number
for this drive is and when it will be available?

My Apple dealer suggested I buy one of the CD300 external
drives, but I don't want to pay extra for a case/power supply
I'm not going to use.


I found this press release from Trial Lawyers for Public Justice on
another system, and thought it would be of interest on campuses
where the administration or the athletics department wants to
eliminate the women's ice hockey team.

 Women Athletes, TLP Win Sex Discrimination Ruling: Brown University
Ordered to Restore Two Women's Varsity Teams
To: National Desk, Sports Writer
 Contact: Lynette Labinger, 401-421-9794, home 401-274-7507, or
          Ray Marcaccio, 401-831-8900, both of Trial Lawyers For
          Public Justice


	Actually, I've been following her remarks for some time, with
interest. I'm also a member of academia, and her remarks have nothing
but elevate her respectability in my eyes. It remains to be seen whether
you are the radical fringe, or I.

	It is generally an error to assume that your beliefs are held by
the majority, or even a sizable minority. Especially when you're seeing
tens, nay dozens, of people on usenet agreeing with you.


	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front,
drums rear.

	Your argument still boils down to "An SHO shouldn't be driven
fast because I, Jim Frost, say it isn't designed to go fast."

	Pffffftttttt.

	Damn straight.  You're one of those people who makes stuff
up and tries to pawn it off as God's own truth.  If I want lies I can
go listen to television.


OK, I'm sure that this has been asked 100's of times before, but I
have wondered since I heard it...  Where the hell did the nickname
of the "Habs" come from for the Montreal Canadiens?


In my case that's not for another 3+ years, so I'd appreciate any
hints on what will keep the organization in business that long.  (And
preferably longer, of course, and worth being part of.)


  If you need speed, and your client can run on the same host as the X server,
  you should use the shared memory extension to the sample X server (MIT-SHM).
  xdpyinfo  will tell you if your server has this extension. This is certainly
  available with the sample MIT X server running under SunOS.
  A word of warning: make sure your kernel is configured to support shared
  memory. And another word of warning: OpenWindows is slower than the MIT
  server.
  I have written an imaging tool (using XView for the GUI, by the way) which
  yields over 10 frames per second for 512*512*8 bit images, running on a Sparc
  IPC (half the cpu grunt of an IPX). This has proved quite sufficient for
  animations.

				Regards,


Greetings,

I am using an X server that provides 3 visuals:
PseudoColor 8 bit, Truecolor 24 bit and DirectColor 24 bit.

A problem occurs when I try to create a window with a visual that is different
from the visual of the parent (which uses the default visual which is TC24).

In the Xlib reference guide from 'O reilly one can read in the
section about XCteateWindow, something like:
"In the current implementation of X11: When using a visual other than the
parent's, be sure to create or find a suitable colourmap which is to be used
in the window attributes when creating, or else a BadMatch occurs."

This warning, strangely enough, is only mentioned in the newer editions
of the X11R5 guides.

However, even if I pass along a suitable colourmap, I still get a BadMatch
when I create a window with a non-default visual.
The code looks like this:

------------------ cut here and you'll destroy your CRT ----------------

Window create_8bit_window_on_truecolour_display(dpy,width,height)
Display *dpy;
int width, height;
{
  Window win;
  XVisualInfo vinfo;
  XSetWindowAttributes attr;

  fprintf(stderr,"Opening 8 bit window...\n");
  if (!XMatchVisualInfo(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),8,PseudoColor,&vinfo)) {
    fprintf(stderr,"Your display can't handle 8 bit PseudoColor.\n");
    exit(1);
  }
  fprintf(stderr,"Using visual: %x\n",vinfo.visual->visualid);
  cmap = XCreateColormap(
           dpy,
           DefaultRootWindow(dpy),
           vinfo.visual,
           AllocNone
         );
  XSync(dpy,False);
  XInstallColormap(dpy,cmap);	/* ommision of this line gives same result */
  attr.colormap = cmap;
  win = XCreateWindow(
          dpy,
          DefaultRootWindow(dpy),
          10,10,
          width,height,
          CopyFromParent,       /* border width */
          8,                    /* depth */
          InputOutput,          /* class */
          vinfo.visual,         /* visual */
          CWColormap,
          &attr
        );
  return win;
}

--- cut here and you'll destroy your CRT -----

Executing this piece of code results in a BadMatch error.
Anybody who knows why?
If so, please drop me a line.

	Take care,


From article <1993Apr18.001319.2340@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>, by jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:

It certainly is provable.  Around a million Americans every year defend
themselves with firearms.  In many of these cases the defender doesn't even
have to fire a shot!  The mere presence of a gun is oftentimes all the
deterrent that is needed.

I don't like violence anymore than anyone else does.  But, taking away the
right of Americans to keep and bear arms is not the solution to the violent
crime problem in this country.  If honest, law-abiding citizens are unable
to get firearms then they will be preyed on even more by criminals who will
be able to acquire guns through illegal channels.  Expect to start seeing
the crime syndicates who smuggle drugs into this country start smuggling
guns.  Believe me this will happen.  There is *plenty* of economic
incentive for gangsters to illegaly import guns into this country if guns
should be banned by the Klintonistas.

Statistics, por favor?

See my previous post.  That ought to set you straight.

People have the right to keep and bear arms no matter what the
Constitution says.  That means that even if the 2nd Amendment is
repealed the *people* (that's all American citizens FYI) will *still*
have the right to keep and bear arms.

Scott Kennedy,  Brewer and Patriot


: >There is an emergency oxygen system that is capable of maintaining a
: >breathable atmosphere in the cabin for long enough to come down, even
: >if there is something like a 5cm hole in the wall that nobody tries
: >to plug.

Josh Hopkins (jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) replied:
: Wow.

: Double wow.  Can you land a shuttle with a 5cm hole in the wall?

Personnally, I don't know, but I'd like to try it sometime.

Programmatically, yes, we can land an Orbiter with a 5 cm hole in
the wall -- provided that the thing which caused 5 cm hole didn't
cause a Crit 1 failure on some of the internal systems.  There are
a few places where a 5 cm hole would cause a Bad Day -- especially
if the 5 cm hole went all the way through the Orbiter and out the
other side, as could easily happen with a meteor strike.  But a
hole in the pressure vessel would cause us to immediately de-orbit
to the next available landing site.

-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
      kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov  (713) 483-4368


I have an HP 1815 TDR plug-in for an HP180 series scope or mainframe
that I'm never going to use (no scope any more). If you're interested
in it, please let me know. Price? Probably real cheap.

This notice may have appeared once before. I posted, and it never showed
up on our local server...

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
       Dave Medin			Phone:	(205) 730-3169 (w)
    SSD--Networking				(205) 837-1174 (h)
    Intergraph Corp.
       M/S GD3004 		Internet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com
  Huntsville, AL 35894		UUCP:  ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin

   ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******


: We are interested in purchasing a grayscale printer that offers a good
: resoltuion for grayscale medical images.  Can anybody give me some
: recommendations on these products in the market, in particular, those
: under $5000?

: Thank for the advice.


From: Center for Policy Research <cpr>
Subject: From Israeli press. TORTURE.

/* Written  4:41 pm  Apr 16, 1993 by cpr@igc.apc.org in igc:mideast.forum */
/* ---------- "From Israeli press. TORTURE." ---------- */
FROM THE ISRAELI PRESS.

Newspaper: Ma'ariv Date: 18. December 1992 Author: Avi Raz

Subject: Torture

Title of article: Moderate physical pressure

Several times in the course of the long hours in the interrogation
room in Tulkarm prison, during which he says he was humiliated,
beaten and tortured, Omar Daoud Jaber heard his interrogator, a
Shabak agent 'Captain Louis', chatting on the phone with his wife.
"At those moments", Omar said, "I felt that he was like a
humanbeing, but right after he finished talking, he would be beat
me and say, 'You listened to the conversation and enjoyed
yourself' and I understood that he was not really a human being".

In late October 1992, after 38 days in detention at Tulkarm
prison, Omar Jaber was released without charges. "Among the Jews,
as among the Arabs, there are good people and bad people", he said
after his release, "but there, in Tulkarm, in the interrogations
rooms, you cannot find even one person about whom you can say that
he is a human being". Although he left the detention installation
in Tulkarm bruised and humiliated ("I sat at home for ten days. My
hands shook from nerves"), one may consider Omar Jaber lucky: He
got out, not so healthy, but entire, and even ultimately returned
to normal functioning, at the small solar heater plant he owns.

In contrast, Hassan Bader al-Zbeidi, for example, was released
seven weeks ago from detention in Tulkarm after 33 days in the
Shabak wing, cut off from his surroundings. He doesn't speak or
react. Mustafa Barakat, aged only 23, who was arrested in early
August and was brought to the Tulkarm detention installation, left
it one day later - dead. "We have recently received an especially
large number of testimonies concerning cruel tortures employed at
the Tulkarm detention installation by Shabak interrogators", noted
Dr. Niv Gordon, director of the Association of Israel and
Palestinian Physicians for Human Rights. (...)

The right to complain against the Shabak does not excite Anan
Saber Makhlouf, a 20 year old student. In fact, he was extremely
fearful about describing the manner in which he was interrogated
in Tulkarm prison, in case the publication in the paper would
return him to detention and lead to renewed mistreatment.

(...follow description of tortures....)

Omar, a tall bearded man, was silent. "I do not want to talk about
it", he finally said, quietly. Some time later, embarrased and
ashamed, he spoke: "Sometimes he beats you and beats you until
you'll kiss his hand, and not only his hand. Even the hands of
another interrogator, and another, whom he calls into the room,
later if I want, you will kiss my ass."

These things take place in an Israeli army detention installation,
located within the military government compound in Tulkarm (West
Bank). But the Shabak interrogation wing is a separate kingdom. In
early March the IDF allowed representatives of B'Tselem, the
Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Territories, to
visit Tulkarm prison, but denied them access to the interrogation
wing. "The interrogation wing is Shabak property, being solely
under Shabak responsibility. All interrogations are performed by
it", said Lieutnant Sharon Sho'an, the commander of the
installation, according to the internal report written by B'tselem
member, Yuval Ginbar, following the visit. Major David Pe'er,
governing commander of the prison system in the Central Command,
was quoted in the report:  "There is an ethical problem here - no
one can enter the interrogation wing".


My mac monitor displays about 20 vertical lines when I use it.
It means that either my display memory goes wrong or monitor is bad
or video card is bad.
   I checked my monitor, it works fine with other Mac.
   I checked my video card, it's also fine.
   I replaced all the RAMs, it still didn't give me right answer.
   Hence I assume something wrong with some part of my motherboard.

   I don't know hardware architecture of the Macintosh.

   Can anyone tell me what's the problem ????

   It's a Mac IIcx.

   MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE.

kuan@netcom.netcom.com

--


I'd appreciate if you can email or post you positive
or negative experience with this monitor, especially
compared to to Nanao 550i.
I'd summarize if I got multiple responses.

Thanks.

--
-kin


   [There may be some misunderstanding over terms here...]

I agree.  Quite likely, actually.

                                                      [...I believe "Jesus
   only" originally was in the context of baptism.  These are folks who
   believe that baptism should be done with a formula mentioning only
   Jesus, rather than Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  This may have
   doctrinal implications, but as far as I know it does not mean that
   these folks deny the existence or divinity of the Father.  I'm not the
   right one to describe this theology, and in fact I think there may be
   several, including what would classically be called monophysite or
   Arian (two rather different views), as well as some who have beliefs
   that are probably consistent with Trinitarian standards, but who won't
   use Trinitarian language because they misunderstand it or simply
   because it is not Biblical.  --clh]

Not Biblical?  What then can they make of the end of Matthew?

(28:18)And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on
earth has been given to me. (19)Go therefore and make disciples of all
nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit, (20) and teaching them to obey everything that I
have commanded to you.  And remember, I am with you always, to the end
of the age." {Other ancient authorities add *Amen*} [NRSV]

The notes give no sense that this is emended.  Do other texts
contradict this regarding Baptism?  Or is a misunderstanding of the
Trinity the most likely explanation after all?

But maybe I simply misunderstand their views.  (Is anyone else out there
forced to read this group with both a good Bible and an unabridged
dictionary??  Christianity really is an education in itself.)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Arrgggghhhh.  When I talked about people who rejected Trinitarian
language as unBiblical, I was speaking of Trinitarian theology, things
like "one essense and three persons".  Obviously the three-fold
baptismal formula is Biblical, as you point out.  (I normally use the
term "three-fold" in referring to Mat.  While it is certainly
consistent with belief in the Trinity, the Trinity is a doctrine whose
full formulation occurred in the 4th and 5th Cent's.  It's unlikely
that Mat. had in mind the fully-developed Trinitarian doctrine.
Indeed the three-fold baptismal formula is used by some groups that do
not believe in the Trinity.)  The disagreement over baptismal formulae
occurs because of passages such as Acts 2:38, which command baptism in
the name of Jesus.  (There are a couple of other passages in Acts as
well.)  This leaves us with sort of a problem: we're commanded in Mat.
to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
and in Acts to baptize in the name of Jesus.

"Jesus only" groups baptize in the name of Jesus.  They consider this
consistent with Mat 28:18, because they say that Jesus is the name of
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  I'm not the right one to
ask to explain what this means.  I will simply say that it does not
appear to be normal Trinitarian theology.  (It is also an odd way of
dealing with the idiomatic phrase "in the name of".)

Those who use the three-fold formula don't seem to have a standard
answer to the passages talking about baptizing in the name of Jesus.
I suspect that the most common explanation is to say that "in the name
of" need not be a verbal formula.  To say that you baptize in the name
of Jesus may simply mean that you are doing baptism under Jesus'
authority.  In the 1st Cent. context, it contrasts Christian baptism
with the baptism of John or other Jewish baptism.  Of course there's a
certain parallelism between these passages.  That suggests that we
could just as well say that Mat 28:18 doesn't require the specific
three-fold formula to be used in baptism, but simply characterizes
baptism done by those who follow the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

One might well suspect that in the early church, more than one
baptismal formula was used.  So long as we consider following Jesus to
be the same as following the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, no great
damage would be done by such a difference.  This does *not* mean that
I think we should go back to using both formulae.  Baptism is one of
the few things that almost all Christian groups now recognize
mutually, so I do not think doing something to upset that would be in
the interests of the Gospel.  This is reinforced by the fact that
those groups that actually use "in the name of Jesus" now do seem to
have in mind a difference in doctrine.  But as I've said before, I'm
not the one to explain what their doctrine is.


Hi to all out there.  We have this problem, and I'm not certain I'm solving it
in the correct way.  I was wondering if anyone can shed light on this, or point
me in the right place to look...

We have an X-ray imaging camera and a metallic tube with a cylindrical hole
passing through it at a right angle to the tube's axis:

                                                          |
                                     ||                   [ image
                                                          |
  X-ray source ]                     ||                   | screen
                            metallic || tube              |
                                     ||                   |
                                                          |

We know source--screen centre distance, radius of the tube, radius of the hole.

We do some calculations based on the image of the hole on the screen.  However,
the calculations are mathematically highly complex, and must assume that the
object's hole projects an image (resembling an ellipse if the tube is not
parallel to the screen) in the centre of the screen.  However, it is unlikely
that the object is placed so conveniently.

Firstly, we must transform the major and minor axis of the ellipse.  I cannot
know what the angle between the tube and screen is.  Do I have to assume that
they are parallel to do the transformation?  How do I do this transformation?

Secondly, there is a distortion of the image due to the screen being planar
(the source--screen distance increases as we move away from the centre of the
screen).  How can I compensate the ellipse's axis for this image distortion?

So, please can anyone give us a few pointers here?  How do we transform the
image so it appears as it would if it were in the centre of the screen, and how
do I deal with distortion due to the shape of the screen?

We'd appreciate any help, either posted or emailed.

Thanks in advance, Simon.


I use the Diamond SpeedStar 24X in 1024X768X256 mode all of the time.  I
have NOT found distortions in the cursor.  The cursor is a little jumpy
from time to time (due to 32 bit access to the swap file), but it is never
distorted.


First off, let me congratulate you for not posting a flame about "You sick
perverts, you are immoral, you are all going to hell.", which seems to be the
usual "religious" post found on the alt.sex.* hierarchy.  Hopefully, you won't
get flamed, either.

You will, however, be argued with.  I personally think that your project is
built on unsteady ground.

First, I do not believe that there is any way to find an "objective morality".
Morality and value are inherently subjective - they represent the beliefs of a
person or a group of people.  They can be widely held, perhaps even
overwhelmingly held, but they are never and _can_ never be objective.

Second, I do not accept the assumptions that you make here.  If, as you say,
you are trying to be objective, then why accept a morality to begin with by
using the Christian Bible?  You're defeating your own purpose by doing so.

Third, call me a pessimist, but you won't stop the flamage.  There will always
be people who pop upin alt.sex.* to tell us how sick and twisted and evil we
all are.  Just out of curiosity, do alt.sex readers show up unprovoked in the
religion groups to tell you all that you are narrow-minded, censoring,
overbearing totalitarianists?

Hm.  Let me provide an example.  Four people get together over dinner, to
discuss morality: you, me, a rather conservative Moslem, and a sociopath.  I
start off by saying that I think it's immoral to force people to have sex with
you.  You agree, but also say that it is immoral to have sex with someone of
your own gender.  (Just a note: I really don't know your views on
homosexuality, I am just using this as a common view of morality for the
purposes of this example.)  The Moslem says that it is immoral for women to
have their faces uncovered.

The sociopath, who has become bored, kills all three of us and eats us, but
feels no guilt because he has done nothing wrong morally in his own mind.

	(Evidence deleted)

I'm not going to accept your evidence for this.  You ask us to accept "The Word
of God" that everything good comes from God.  This is only a valid argument for
a person who shares your beliefs.

Still, I must say that cataloging the major themes and motifs in erotica could
be interesting for other reasons than yours, so good luck with this next part.

Hmmm...do I detect just a wee bit of condescence here?

                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
				not very objective.

One could construe this to mean that beautiful people are better, or "more
good" than non-beautiful people.  I would hope that people relize that this is
not necessarily true.

                    ^^^^
      Might I suggest the word "penis"? It seems more in line with the tone of
your post.

Bravo!  I respect you and your sense of humor, sir.

Yes, and this theme is usually what the better stories are about.  However,
they are not always selfish - I could point to examples in the work of Elf
Sternberg, for example.

It serves the same purpose as it does in pornographic movies: it affirms the
virility of the male involved, as well as assuring the reader that he (the
character) has orgasmed.

Your Whole Picture [TM] unfortunately only applies to people who accept your
church.

In addition, if sex is for procreation, then

1)	Why did God make it pleasurable, so that people would want to do it,
rather than building it in as instinct?
2)	Why did God make it fallible?  Not every sexual encounter results in
pregnancy, even among Catholics.  Does this mean that they have sinned?

Granted.

Pornography would not tend in those directions if there were not a demand for
it.  Many people have violent fantasies that they would never act out in real
life, but will think about and read about and mull over.

Later,
						Jeff


Dear Mr. Beyer:

It is never wise to confuse "freedom of speech" with "freedom"
of racism and violent deragatory."

It is unfortunate that many fail to understand this crucial
distinction.

Indeed, I find the latter in absolute and complete contradiction
to the former. Racial invective tends to create an atmosphere of
intimidation where certain individuals (who belong to the group
under target group) do not feel the ease and liberty to exercise
*their* fundamental "freedom of speech."

This brand of vilification is not sanctioned under "freedom of
speech.

Salam,

John Absood


The same way that any theory is proven false.  You examine the predicitions
that the theory makes, and try to observe them.  If you don't, or if you
observe things that the theory predicts wouldn't happen, then you have some
evidence against the theory.  If the theory can't be modified to
incorporate the new observations, then you say that it is false.

For example, people used to believe that the earth had been created
10,000 years ago.  But, as evidence showed that predictions from this
theory were not true, it was abandoned.


Since I have seen various different numbers to dial to get your number read
back to you by the phone company, could someonepost a list or point me to a
book where I could get a list of all the different numbers for the U.S.?
Failing that, could someone tell me Ohio's?


I've read estimates that Pol Pot killed somewhere in the neighborhood
of 2 million.

Drew


       The San Jose Mercury News described him as "a 61-year old retired
chemical engineer".


:
: While you brought up the separate question of Israel's unjustified
: policies and practices, I am still unclear about your reaction to
: the practices and polocies reflected in the article above.
:
: Tim

Not a separate question Mr. Clock. It is deceiving to judge the
resistance movement out of the context of the occupation.


You still need to supply a proper ground for a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter!
So rewiring is still a part of this job, however, the ground may be connected to
a local earth ground, rather than back at the breaker box.

As Jamie said, GFCI devices are required by code in a number of places, most
notably: bathrooms, and outside the house.  I do suggest the use of GFCI outlets,
rather than the breakers.  You will end up with much less headaches.  Noise pickup
in long cable runs is sometimes enough to cause frequent tripping of the breakers.

GFCI devices do save lives, if you decide to install them, be sure to check them
regularly (using the test button).

Running the family business (electrical supplies and lighting) for many years, I
have seen too many seasoned electricians fried, because they forgot to double check
their common sense list.  Please exercise caution.
---
			Gary Gendel
Vice President:				Current consulting assignment:
Genashor Corp				Mentor Graphics Corporation
9 Piney Woods Drive			15 Independence Boulevard
Belle Mead, NJ 08502			Warren, NJ 07059


A friend of mine is going in later this week for tests to see if has
emphysema.  His lung capacity has decreased over time.  His father died
of the disease.  He works in woodworking.  I believe he has a very
occasional cigarette, perhaps one cigarette a day or even less.  He tells
me this..I've never seen him light up.  He has some pretty healthy
life style habits, good diet, exercise, meditation, retreats, therapy
etc.  Anyhow..he is very concerned with this check up.  I know really
nothing about the disease.  I believe it interferes with the lining
of the lung being able to exchange oxygen.


I know someone had long talks about Solar Sails early this year and late last
year..Also about Solar Sailing. Not sure who captured it if possible..

I think it was one of the regulars who had most or all the data?

I think I started the latest round or the late last year round.. But the topic
has been around here, off and on for a year or two..


That's fine, but would you name the "industy experts" so I can try to track
this down?

Yup.  That's why I'm kinda curious... most SCSI problems I've encountered
are due to cabling.

noah


Read it again yourself, then re-apply the admonition you gave to the
previous poster to yourself, as well.  The first clause is not a condition,
it is a reason for explicitly supporting the right WHICH EXISTS, MILITIA
OR NOT, that the people have a right to keep and bear arms.  This is
NOT a right granted by the Constitution, it is a right presumed to exist
by default.  The Constitution mentioning a right is to prevent the
government from removing that right by stating very clearly the government
shall NOT infringe (mess with, block, limit) that right.  Remember the
Constitution is a bunch of negative things - things the government CANNOT
do.  All rights, etc not epxressly given to the government go to the
states and the PEOPLE (the same people the other 9 Amendments in the
Bill of Rights talk about).

Since I am sure you will summarily reject my interpretation, I am
appending a linguistic analysis by one far more expert than myself (and
you, I suspect).  I am sure you will find his qualifications adequate.
If that isn't enough I can send you the Senate Subcommitee to the
Judiciary on the Constitution report on the same thing...  There are
some things in there that Big Brother types, like Biden, etc must have
really had to swallow hard to admit.

I think you will find that people that seriously study the Constitution
and state what it means will say the same thing.  Those who come up
with 'new improved meanings' are those who are trying to subvert the
Constitution for a given agenda.  Like Clinton and his Clinton Cripple,
Gun Control, People Control, and Control Control, and the whole nasty
mess.

Please tell us how this person is in error, won't you? (And please back it
up with some proof, since I am backing my assertion up with independent
proof, and have a BUNCH MORE I can provide...).

NOTE:  Followups set to talk.politics.guns

--------- Begin included article -------

			THE UNABRIDGED SECOND AMENDMENT

			      by J. Neil Schulman

If you wanted to know all about the Big Bang, you'd ring up Carl Sagan,
right ?  And if you wanted to know about desert warfare, the man to call
would be Norman Schwarzkopf, no question about it.  But who would you call
if you wanted the top expert on American usage, to tell you the meaning
of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution ?

That was the question I asked A.C. Brocki, editorial coordinator of the Los
Angeles Unified School District and formerly senior editor at Houghton
Mifflin Publishers -- who himself had been recommended to me as the
foremost expert on English usage in the Los Angeles school system.  Mr.
Brocki told me to get in touch with Roy Copperud, a retired professor
journalism at the University of Southern California and the author of
"American Usage and Style: The Consensus."

A little research lent support to Brocki's opinion of Professor Copperud's
expertise.

Roy Copperud was a newspaper writer on major dailies for over three decades
before embarking on a a distinguished 17-year career teaching journalism at
USC.  Since 1952, Copperud has been writing a column dealing with the
professional aspects of journalism for "Editor and Publisher", a weekly
magazine focusing on the journalism field.

He's on the usage panel of the American Heritage Dictionary, and Merriam
Webster's Usage Dictionary frequently cites him as an expert.  Copperud's
fifth book on usage, "American Usage and Style: The Consensus," has been in
continuous print from Van Nostrand Reinhold since 1981, and is the winner
of the Association of American Publisher's Humanities Award.

That sounds like an expert to me.

After a brief telephone call to Professor Copperud in which I introduced
myself but did not give him any indication of why I was interested, I sent
the following letter:

"I am writing you to ask you for your professional opinion as an expert in
English usage, to analyze the text of the Second Amendment to the United
States Constitution, and extract the intent from the text.

"The text of the Second Amendment is, 'A well-regulated Militia, being
necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep
and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

"The debate over this amendment has been whether the first part of the
sentence, 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a
free State', is a restrictive clause or a subordinate clause, with respect
to the independent clause containing the subject of the sentence, 'the
right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

"I would request that your analysis of this sentence not take into
consideration issues of political impact or public policy, but be restricted
entirely to a linguistic analysis of its meaning and intent.  Further,
since your professional analysis will likely become part of litigation
regarding the consequences of the Second Amendment, I ask that whatever
analysis you make be a professional opinion that you would be willing to
stand behind with your reputation, and even be willing to testify under
oath to support, if necessary."

My letter framed several questions about the test of the Second Amendment,
then concluded:

"I realize that I am asking you to take on a major responsibility and task
with this letter.  I am doing so because, as a citizen, I believe it is
vitally important to extract the actual meaning of the Second Amendment.
While I ask that your analysis not be affected by the political importance of
its results, I ask that you do this because of that importance."

After several more letters and phone calls, in which we discussed terms for
his doing such an analysis, but in which we never discussed either of our
opinions regarding the Second Amendment, gun control, or any other political
subject, Professor Copperud sent me the follow analysis (into which I have
inserted my questions for the sake of clarity):

[Copperud:] "The words 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the
security of a free state,' contrary to the interpretation cited in your
letter of July 26, 1991, constitutes a present participle, rather than a
clause.  It is used as an adjective, modifying 'militia,' which is
followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject 'the right', verb
'shall').  The to keep and bear arms is asserted as an essential for
maintaining a militia.

"In reply to your numbered questions:

[Schulman:] "(1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep
and bear arms solely to 'a well-regulated militia'?"

[Copperud:] "(1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear
arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by
others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect
to a right of the people."

[Schulman:] "(2) Is 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' granted
by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a
preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state
that such right 'shall not be infringed'?"

[Copperud:] "(2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence
is assumed.  The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be
preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia."

[Schulman:] "(3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms
conditioned upon whether or not a well regulated militia, is, in fact
necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not
existing, is the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
shall not be infringed' null and void?"

[Copperud:] "(3) No such condition is expressed or implied.  The right to
keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence
of a militia.  No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the
right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated
militia as a requisite to the security of a free state.  The right to keep
and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence."

[Schulman:] "(4) Does the clause 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary
to the security of a free State,' grant a right to the government to place
conditions on the 'right of the people to keep and bear arms,' or is such
right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?"

[Copperud:] "(4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as
previously stated.  It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the
militia."

[Schulman:] "(5) Which of the following does the phrase 'well-regulated
militia' mean: 'well-equipped', 'well-organized,' 'well-drilled,'
'well-educated,' or 'subject to regulations of a superior authority'?"

[Copperud:] "(5) The phrase means 'subject to regulations of a superior
authority;' this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian
control over the military."

[Schulman:] "(6) (If at all possible, I would ask you to take account the
changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200
years ago, but not take into account historical interpretations of the
intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated."

[Copperud:] "To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the
meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the
amendment.  If it were written today, it might be put: "Since a
well-regulated militia is necessary tot he security of a free state, the
right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.'

[Schulman:] "As a 'scientific control' on this analysis, I would also
appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second
Amendment to the following sentence,

"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be
infringed.'

"My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,

"(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way
the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?;
and

"(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict 'the right of the people
to keep and read Books' _only_ to 'a well-educated electorate' -- for
example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?"

[Copperud:] "(1) Your 'scientific control' sentence precisely parallels the
amendment in grammatical structure.

"(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the
possibility of a restricted interpretation."

Professor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his
cover letter: "With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative
efforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach
any conclusion."

So now we have been told by one of the top experts on American usage what
many knew all along: the Constitution of the United States unconditionally
protects the people's right to keep and bear arms, forbidding all
governments formed under the Constitution from abridging that right.

As I write this, the attempted coup against constitutional government in the
Soviet Union has failed, apparently because the will of the people in that
part of the world to be free from capricious tyranny is stronger than the
old guard's desire to maintain a monopoly on dictatorial power.

And here in the United States, elected lawmakers, judges, and appointed
officials who are pledged to defend the Constitution of the United States
ignore, marginalize, or prevaricate about the Second Amendment routinely.
American citizens are put in American prisons for carrying arms, owning
arms of forbidden sorts, or failing to satisfy bureaucratic requirements
regarding the owning and carrying of firearms -- all of which is an
abridgement of the unconditional right of the people to keep and bear arms,
guaranteed by the Constitution.

And even the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), staunch defender of the
rest of the Bill of Rights, stands by and does nothing.

it seems it is up to those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms to
preserve that right.  no one else will.  No one else can.  Will we beg our
elected representatives not to take away our rights, and continue regarding
them as representing us if they do?  Will we continue obeying judges who
decide that the Second Amendment doesn't mean what it says it means but
means whatever they say it means in their Orwellian doublespeak ?

Or will be simply keep and bear the arms of our choice, as the Constitution
of the United States promises us we can, and pledge that we will defend
that promise with our lives, our fortuned, and our sacred honor ?

(C) 1991 by The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation.
Informational reproduction of the entire article is hereby authorized
provided the author, The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation are
credited.  All other rights reserved.

			About the Author

J. Neil Schulman is the award-winning author of novels endorsed by Anthony
Burgess and Nobel-economist Milton Friedman, and writer of the CBS "Twilight
Zone" episode in which a time-traveling historian prevents the JFK
assassination.  He's also the founder and president of SoftServ Publishing,
the first publishing company to distribute "paperless books" via personal
computers and modems.

Most recently, Schulman has founded the Committee to Enforce the Second
Amendment (CESA), through which he intends to see the individual's right to
keep and bear arms recognized as a constitutional protection equal to those
afforded in the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth and Fourteenth amendments.

------------- End included article --------

Can you still honestly say the Second is a 'State-Run militia only right'?


I like Alomar.  But I'd like to differ with your opinion about "a city
which is likely to pour in the votes...".

I attended many games last year during the balloting.  I know that a
great number of the attendees DID NOT fill out their ballots, but left
them, beer soaked and torn on the floor of the stands.  Toronto gets
no more and no less votes than any other city for the All Star game.

Unfortunately, this is not a one time thing.  I've attended games
during the last four seasons, and it has happened every time.  The
apathetic attitude to All Star ballots really offends me.


 It's made by Rohm. (as is all BAxxx parts). Call 714-855-2131 and ask if
 you can get a sample (it's only like a $2 part).


[...Dr. England's story deleted, it was a nice read the first time
through...]]

	It isn't so much a matter of 'interpretation' of Bible texts
that sets Mormonism apart from orthodoxy as it is a matter of
*fabrication*.

	About 20 years ago, _National Lampoon_ had some comic strips
in them that were drawn by Neal Adams. They were called "Son o' God" comics.
It was a parody of the Jesus in the Bible. In the comic, there were a
group of thirteen Jewish kids from Brooklyn, and when one of them said
the magic word, he turned into "Son o' God." He went from a myopic,
curly headed, yarmulke wearing boy to a replica of the stylizied
portraits of Jesus --- with long flowing brown hair and gentile
features.

	Now, if someone were to profess faith in this NatLamp Jesus,
and claim that they were a Christian because they believed in this
NatLamp Jesus, we would have to say that this was fallacious since
this Jesus was a fabrication, and did not really exist.

	This is the exact same thing that the LDS do when they claim
that they are Christian. They profess faith in Jesus, but the Jesus
that they profess to have faith in is as much a fabrication as the
NatLamp Jesus was.


I guess what I am really asking, like I did above, how does my government
who is my servent, tell me the soveriegn what I can or cannot possess?

It would seem to me that the act of possessing a machine gun is no less
"criminal", by definition, than the act of possessing a television set. I also would seem
to me that it would be better to pass laws that say, that if I harm
or kill someone with the machine gun or the television set that there
would be specific penalties for doing such.

Sorry, I was close.


AllMartin MccormickWhat's Exactly in a Flour

MM>From: martin@datacomm.ucc.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
MM>Organization: Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, OK
MM>	What sort of lamp is the little glass bulb found inside the
starter?
MM>It sort of reminds me of a NE2 neon lamp.  Starters appear open when m
MM>with an Ohm meter so the little lamp is either a neon or has a capacit
MM>in series with it.
MM>
MM>	I have seen these things all my life, but never read a really good
MM>description of what is happening inside that little can.

Do you know what a bi-metallic strip is?
Just in case: it is two strips of different metals bonded together, which
when heated bend to one side (check out the blinker globe in your
christmas tree lights).

So when you turn on the power, this causes the bulb to work like a neon,
heating up and shorting out, thus providing a loop to power the heaters in
the main tube. When the tube fires, insufficient current runs through the
starter to keep the heat up and the bi-metalic strip straightens out
(O/C).

BTW, I too thought that they were nothing more than a small neon, so one
day when the neon in my sisters digital (flip the metal squares type)
clock broke (flimsy leads), I replaced it with one from a starter. Well
powering up made a bit of a mess of the clock!


Thanks.  I've ftp'ed the FAQ file and it is just what I was looking for.


I would realy like to hear from someone that has one of these NANAO T560i
monitors that is driving it with a Diamond SpeedStar 24x. With the 24x
set up to run at its 58.1 khz 72.0hz output mode, and realy driving the
hell out of the monitor. Just woundering if the NANAO T560i would fall
apart with poor low capabilities like my (3) Sony 1604s did with the 24x
driving their balls off...Sam


I was out of date.  VW is stealing execs directly from Opel,
independent of Lopez.  Shameful.


Ok people, I really need to sell this sampler to pay off bills, so
I'm even going to include 3 sample cds worth at least 200 separately in
this deal.....

	It's an Emax II with standard memory and 16 bit stereo sampling
	It's rackmount and has at least 24 voice pol., It's got a brand new
	Connor (sp.?) 170 meg internal scsi drive (4 wk old, never used)
	it works perfect and runs perfect. In addition access to a friends
	sound library of over 1gig of sounds is available... All this for
	only $1600.. The sample cd's are based on dance/house/techno stuff.

Email or call 213-341-4425
thanks


I'm not sure it is the fluctuation so much as the estrogen level.
Taking Premarin can certainly cause migraines in some women.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon."


Wow, the WWII channel did something not-WWII?

The graphics capabilities of the computers were very faked for movie
audiences who have not ability or patience with numbers.  The book was more
realistic in that respect.  In all respects, actually.  The robotics are
still out of range, but not impossible.

SF (and I"ve always wondered how Crichton escapes this classification) is
usually ahead of science in both prediction and precaution.  NASA's
decontaimination processes were supposedly taken to prevent SF story
disasters.  I mean, NASA scientists were often SF readers (and
sometimes writers) and felt pre-warned by their reading.

I think the film still holds up among the best of SF films, but that isn't
saying a whole lot.


The "`little' things" above were in reference to Germany, clearly.  People
said that there were similar things in Germany, but no one could name any.
They said that these were things that everyone should know, and that they
weren't going to waste their time repeating them.  Sounds to me like no one
knew, either.  I looked in some books, but to no avail.

It has *caused* problems?  Again, no one has shown that things were better
before the motto, or that they'd likely be better after.  I don't think
the motto initiates any sort of harassment.  Harassment will occur whether
or not the motto is present.


The point is that the original poster was talking about connecting
ground and neutral in the *outlet* box (big NO NO), and you are talking
about them being connected in the breaker box (as things should be).

If this is not obvious, the point is that there should be current
flow in the white, i.e. neutral/return wires when things in the
house are operating.  There should not be any flow in the ground wires
unless there is a fault condition.  Notice also that in the breaker box
there is a wire leading from the above-mentioned junction to earth ground,
usually a pipe or spike driven into the ground.


How hard would it be to somehow interface them to some of the popular
Motorola microcontrollers.  I am a novice at microcontrollers, but I am
starting to get into them for some of my projects.  I have several 256k
SIMMs laying around from upgraded Macs and if I could use them as "free"
memory in one or two of my projects that would be great.  One project that
comes to mind is a Caller ID device that would require quite a bit of RAM
to store several hundered CID records etc...

                                                             - Dan
--
             Daniel Joseph Rubin     rubin@cis.ohio-state.edu


Hi,
Could some kind soul post me the max power/voltage/current ratings of
2SC1096 and 2SA634 transistors, their conductance types and pinouts.
They are used in the sweep portion of a TV set.
Thanks in advance,


SPEAKING OF VAT:  Did anyone see CNN's report yesterday (4/15)?  It
was quite hillarious (no pun intended).  They ran down how a percent tax
was added at each stage of manufacturing, graphicaly depicting a stack of
quarters being added at each wholesale stage.  When they got to the final
stage (the actual retail sale) the small stack of quarters added to the
large stack already there was said to be "the amount paid by consumers."
In other words, they completed ignored the fact that at each stage the
tax would of course be passed on to the next buyer with the retail consumer
paying the full load.

These are not journalists--they're lap dogs.


Mouseless operation is documented in the man pages for olwm and olvwm...
However, I can't get it to work in either.
I have this line in my .Xdefaults:
OpenWindows.KeyboardCommands:           Full

That should do it...
I haven't rebound the keys.
Am I missing something?


I'm attempting to transfer files from my home computer running
Windows 3.1 Terminal to a workstation at school.  The file transfer protocol
at home is Kermit for binary files.  I'm running Kermit on the workstation at school and
setting the file transfer protocol to binary.  I am unable to upload files
to school but can download files from school to home.  During download,
Terminal displays ther retrying message several times then the message '
Verify you're using the correct protocol'.
	Anyone have any ideas on how to fix?  Either e-mail or post to this
group.

Thanks, in advance,


As promised, I spoke today with the company mentioned in a Washington
Times article about the Clipper chip announcement. The name of the company
is Secure Communicatiions Technology (Information will be given at the end
of this message on how to contact them).

   Basically they are disturbed about the announcement for many reasons that
we are. More specifically however, Mr. Bryen of Secure Communications
brought to light many points that might interest most of the readers.

   His belief is that AT&T was made known of the clipper well before the
rest of the industry. This is for several reasons, several of which are:

 - A company of AT&T's size could never be able to make a decision to use
   the new chip on the SAME DAY it was announced.

 - Months ago they proposed using their own chip for AT&T's secure telephone
   devices. AT&T basically blew them off as being not interested at all.
   This stuck them as strange, until now...

   Also I spoke with Art Melnick, their cryptographer, he expressed several
concerns over the new Clipper Chip:

  - The obvious backdoor will be able to let many people decrypt the code.

  - Once the key is released to authorities the security of the crypto
    system is lost forever. These keys can end up in the hands of any agency
    of the government.

  - The fact that the escrowed keys never change means that the algorithm
    is vulnerable over time to an attacker.

  - The classified algorithm may hide another backdoor. But he feels that
    it is probably to keep people from forging fake serial numbers, or
    changing the keys themselves.

  - Additionally he feels that the NSA has probably spent enough time and
    money in working on a way to keep this chip from being reversed
    engineered, that he feels that reverse engineering it will be very
    difficult to do. He feels that they have developed a suitable technique
    to protect the chip from this attack. Also he feels that the chip is
    hardware encoded with the algorithm and not microcoded onto the chip.

Additonally I spoke with Mr. Melnick about their algorithm. He couldn't tell
me much about their new agorithm because it hasn't been patented yet.
However he told me a little:

 - The algorithm will be released for public review after patents have been
   granted for it. This is so the crypto community can see that it is
   secure.

 - The algorithm is called NEA for New Encryption Algorithm.
   The details were sketchy because now it is held as a trade secret
   until the patent was issued, but I was told that it will incorporate
   the following:

    - It will have fast encryption of data (Exact specs not given, but
      Mr. Melnick stated "Much faster than what an RS-232 can put out.")

    - It is a symmetric cipher, just like IDEA and DES.

    - It will use 64 bit data blocks for encryption (like DES and IDEA).

    - The key length was not given to me, but Mr. Melnick states that
      it is _adujustable_ and is "More than adequate for security."

    - The algorithm is written in C and Assembler in software form, and
      can be ported to many platforms (Unlike the the Clipper Chip which
      is hardware ONLY and cannot be made into software) This I
      consider a definite plus for the NEA for widespread use.

    - The algorithm will accomodate public key distribution techniques
      such as RSA or Diffie-Hellman. This will also be supported in the
      hardware chip.

    - Right now the projected cost of the NEA chip will be about 10 dollars
      for each!! (Clipper will run 25 each chip [that is if it is produced
      enough, which probably won't happen]).

    - They currently sell a program called C-COM that uses the algorithm
      and a special streaming protocol that does not divide the encrypted
      data into "blocks." This could prevent plaintext attacks if you know
      what the block header is. This program operates at all supported
      RS-232 speeds and uses the software implementation of the algorithm.

    - Most importantly: IT DOES NOT HAVE A BACKDOOR!!

Right now the company is afraid that the new clipper chip will put them out
of business. This is a very real possibility. So they really need help in
stopping the clipper chip from becoming a standard. If you want to contact
them, they can be reached at..

Secure Communications Technology
8700 Georgia Ave. Suite 302
Silver Spring, MD

(301) 588-2200

I talked to Mr. Bryen who represents the company. He can answer any
questions you have.

Any factual errors occurring in this write up are my own and I apologize for
them ahead of time.


Since the actual verdicts were not known by the authorities, it was
smart not to allow "Friday night for fighting" (sorry, Elton) and to
seal them for this morning.  Also, it allows for maximum daylight to
wear down and frustrate any potential troublemakers, as well as give
more preparation time.

Are you a local news intern? (-;

Actually, that was 8 PM 'cos it was shown live on our 11 PM news
and cut into CNN's 11 O'clock Sports (sorry, but I didn't watch
the Devils-Islanders game!  No SportsChannel ...).

We had cutovers to LA's KNBC on our WNBC, and I didn't recall this
detail.  But I'll not comment further on that ...

A net-contact in L.A. tells me that the alert will remain over this
weekend, as some elements may find excuse over the not-guilty verdicts
on three of five charges (the aiding-and-abetting).  Those acquittals
seem to balance out the fact that Rodney King himself was not any kind
of angel that night, speeding and fleeing et al.  However ...  Another
consideration is any street celebrations over the two convictions on
the excessive force charges (Koons for incompetance, and Powell for
overreacting --- both guilty as heck even from the view of NYPD cops
interviewed) that might get out of hand. )-;  Also, some elements
may take the acquittals as an excuse to challenge the cops (a dumb
move, obviously).  And, Koreans are still scared and certain people
are really mad over how they have armed themselves in the last year.

A Commander from Nassau, Long Island was questioned about how his
people would have handled Rodney King, and he said "We'd have let
him roll around in the dirt 'til he got tired, then handcuff him".

gld


Where do I get hold of these widgets?


Indeed, an extreme example.  It came "out of nowhere."  The connection
Kekule saw between it and his problem is fortunate but not extraordinary.
I, for example, often receive/conjure solutions (hypotheses for solutions)
to my everyday problems at moments when I appear to myself to be occupied
with activities quite removed.  Algorithms for that new software feature come
when I trample the meadow on my occasional runs.  Alternative (better>) ways
to instruct and rear my sons arrive while I weed the garden.  I'll swear I am
not thinking about any of it when ideas come.

These ideas are not the stuff of "great" discoveries, of course, but my
connecting them to particular problems is fraught with deliberation and
occasional fits of rationality.

Yes.  And he was lucky to have such a colorful, vivid image.  I, alas, will
never figure out why returning worms to the loose soil of my garden brought,
"have him count objects instead of merely count" to mind regarding my 2
year-old's fledging arithmetic skills.

The latter.  Worms wiggling around in the dirt fascinate my son.

Regards,

Ted


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Revised 1990 edition. Includes 6 full length exams with detailed
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Includes an official full-length GRE Economics Test from 1985-1986 and
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no explanations) and one additional GRE General Test complete with
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A lot of us out here in the hinderland will trust the Japanese
before we'll trust the NSA, the President, or those stupid
Fortune 50 companies you're so proud of.

And since the Japanese corps aren't part of our "government/governors"
they may be more trusted out htere than you are.

People are getting tired of this "be patriotic, do whatever we say
without question, and pay more taxes" attitude that comes from
America's political party...
or should that be caste?


From where I come from in Canada, Borshevsky sounds more Canadian than
Smith! -)

Anyways, crawl back into the hole you crawled out of...the NBA doesn't
care where they get basketball players from, major league baseball
doesn't give a damn where they get baseball players from (except Cuba,
that is).

Canada is in no imminent danger of being overtaken as the primary
supplier of players...Sweden, Finland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia
are all relatively small countries, and cannot really produce players
at a greater rate than they are already producing them, and the
potential influx from the former Soviet Union is severely blunted
because the system has been raided and is starved for finances and
will take a decade or two, to recover and become a real threat, and
the US will just maintain its slow increase.  Canada should continue
to supply 60% plus of the top hockey players in the world for the
forseeable future.

Besides we need the European hockey market if hockey is to take
its rightful place besides soccer as the two predominant world
sports...and since soccer is essentially boring, unlike hockey.

Canadians are under no threat...the European numbers will soon saturate,
if they haven't already...and by the time Russia comes online again,
the NHL should be a world league, and there will be many more teams
to stock and many more jobs for Canadian hockey players.  In the near
team, the percentage of Canadians will mostly decline because of
Americans, not because of Europeans.

Crawl into a hole and die...


: How hot should the CPU in a 486-33 DX machine be?

: Currently it gets so hot that I can not hold a finger on it for more than
: 0.5 s.

I seem to recall that 486s run somewhere close to the boiling point of water.
Anyone have an exact temperature?

Anyway, putting a CPU fan/heat sink on it won't hurt and could help. Depends
on how paranoid you are...


  Koresh had a lawyer, Deguin(?) who he spoke to in person several times during
the last few weeks.

  This strikes me as a tad ingenous.  "If X had done/note done Y, then Z would
never have happened."  I tend to place tha responsibility on the group/person
actually committing the act, not on those whon "forced them to do it".

  After all, to take an extreme example, if the British were not in Northern
Ireland, the IRA would not be forced to place bombs in shopping centers.

  That said, this whole sorry story was a totally unecessary, utterly fucked
up mess from the get go.

semper fi,


Message-ID: <1993Apr15.174657.6176@news.uiowa.edu> Mr.Napoleon responds:

*******************************************************
********************* TO MR. NAPOLEON******************
*******************************************************

** There were a couple millions of Greeks living in Asia Minor
**until 1923 Someone had to protect them. If not us who??

Is that so? or you were taking advantage of weakness of ottoman
empire to grab some land. As soon as you got green lights from
allied forces, you occupied Izmir and other cities in western
Turkey. You killed and  raped millions people without any reason.
Of course, you paid the price. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk made
you swim in aegean sea but not far enough. Your aggressions thru
Turkey at anytime in the past did not get you any reward and shall
not get you anywhere.

**Compromise on what, the invasion of Cyprus, the involment of Turkey in
**Greek politics, the refusal of Turkey to accept 12 miles of territorial
**waters as stated by international law, the properties of the Greeks of
**Konstantinople, the ownership of the islands in the Greek lake,sorry, Aegean.

What compromise are you talking about on Cyprus. That is not Greece
business to join the island to Greece. That is up to people in the island
to live or not to live together. They made their decision and they are
living  separetely now.There is a peace there. Greeks can't slaughter
Turks anymore because turkish peacemaking force is there.
Your dream will never come true. 12 mile territorialwater!!!!
Are you joking or dreaming? We can declare our 12 miles territorial
water which can come close to Athens. How would you like it?
If you have any guts why don't you shoot at some Turkish ships
in your dream 12 mile territorial waters?
We do not have any city called Konstantinople. We have a city
called ISTANBUL!!!! All the greeks in Istanbul are being
treated just any other Turks. There is no difference among people
in Turkey. You look at your own backyard first before talking
about human rights in Turkey. What are the rights of Turks in Greece?
Nothing. They do not even have basic human rights like right to
have property, fredom of religion, fredom of press, fredom of
vote elect their community leaders. Government of Greece publicly
encourages people to destroy and burn schools, religious places,
houses, and farms belong to turkish minority. Then, Greek government
forces these minorities to go to Turkey without anything with them.
You will dream to see Aegean sea as Greek lake but it will never
happen. Think about the war between Turkey and Greece in 1915.
The river called SAKARYA flood 21 days filled with blood in 1915.

**Any person who supports the policies of the Turkish goverment
**directly or indirecly is a "bad" person.
**It is not your nationality that makes you bad, it is your support
**of the actions of your goverment that make you "bad".
**People do not hate you because of who you are but because of what you
**are. You are a supporter of the policies of the Turkish goverment and
**as a such you must pay the price.

You mean that any person who supports the actions and policies of the
government of Greece is a good person. That is your Greek idea to
say Turks are bad people. We know who we are and proud to be TURKS
anywhere in the world. That is not Greeks business to tell us what
kind of people we are. You are not at position to judge people because
you are not civilized enough to give equal rights to your own minorities.
Millions of minorities are being treated as third class citizen,
their rights are taken away from them, and they have no voices under
the Government of Greece. They are almost being treated as slaves
even though we are getting into 21th century. Therefore, do not make me
laught at you.

**You do not need brainwashing to turn people against the Turks.Just
**as Greeks, Arats, Slavs, Kurds and all other people who had
**the luck to be under Turkish occupation.
**They will talk to you about murders,rapes,distruction.
**You do not learn about Turks from history books, you learn about
**them from people who experienced first hand Turkish friendliness.

The Government of Greece is actively supporting terrorism against
Turkey.Armenian and Kurdish terrorists have headquarters in Athens.
They are being trained in special camps in Greece. They are taught how to
kill innocent women and children.This not a claim, this is a fact known
by whole world. In conlusion, you are in action to murder, rape,
destroy the innocent people. I do not take you seriously because you
are not at any positions to talk about human rights and dignity.
Your own government, the Government of Greece actively supports
atrocities in Bosnia. Serbs's Barbarism pleases your government.
Please Napoleon think twice before you write anything about Turks and
Turkey. You are the worst in human right conditions and treatment of
the minorities. Who wants to be a fried with someone whose government
does not respect the human rights, supports terrorism in Turkey,barbaric
actions in Bosnia, treats Turkish minorities as third class citizen and
take away all of their rights, treating them as slaves at the beginning
of 21th century???????

Aykut Atalay Atakan


mark andy (living in pittsburgh) bought his RZ350 from a dude in
massachusetts (or was it connecticut?).


I know what the 68HC811E2 is all about, but I'm trying to figure
out what the 68SEC811E2 is... specifically, what does the SEC
stand for?


I want to be able to take a bunch of home-made songs (from DAT or other
suitable master) and output them to a short run (10-20 off) of standard
music CDs. Would one of the CD recorders designed for writeable CD ROMs work
for this purpose? Alternatively, is there a service that does this sort of
thing for a fee?

I'm after as much information as possible on the alternatives (cost, lead
time, equipment required, procedure to follow, etc.)  Email replies would be
appreciated.