It is no matter what you call the teams, Jokerit and TPS, or Helsinki Tornado
and Turku Typhoon, the best palyers in Finland would eventually end up in
those teams anyway, if they were in the "big" league.


	I'm not sure that's true.  Let me rephrase; "You can file a complaint
 which will bring the person into court."  As I understand it, a
 "citizens arrest" does not have to be the physical detention of
 the person.

 Better now?


Does anyone know the performance ratings for a 1992 or 1993
5.0 L HO Mustang LX like the 0-60 time 1/4 mile and top end ???
Also can you tell me which magazine where these #'s come from so I
can look them up if possable ????  If you could the year and month and
eveen page # if you have it.


I dreamed that the great judgment morning had dawned,
     and the trumpet had blown.
I dreamed that the sinners had gathered for judgment
     before the white throne.
Oh what weeping and wailing as the lost were told of their fate.
They cried for the rock and the mountains.
They prayed, but their prayers were too late.
The soul that had put off salvation,
"Not tonight I'll get saved by and by.
 No time now to think of ....... religion,"
Alas, he had found time to die.
And I saw a Great White Throne.

Now, some have protest by saying that the fear of hell is not good for
motivation, yet Jesus thought it was.  Paul thought it was.  Paul said,
"Knowing therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men."

Today, too much of our evangelism is nothing but soft soap and some of
it is nothing but evangelical salesmanship.  We don't tell people anymore, that
there's such a thing as sin or that there's such a place as hell.

As Jayne has said, this doesn't mean we have to come on so strong so as to hit
people over the head with a baseball bat.  Yet the fact remains, there is a
place called hell.  A place so fearful that God died to save us from having to
experience it.  Whatever you or I, as Christians, do, we should do whatever we
can to win people to the Lord, if for no other reason, to keep them from going
to "outer darkness.".

Jesus, in Mt. 25, tells us that He didn't prepare hell for people.  He prepared
it for the Devil and his angels.  No where in the Bible do I read -anywhere,
that God predestined anybody to go to hell.  D.L. Moody use to say that the
elect are the "whosoever will" and the nonelect are the "whosoever wont's."
Whether or not that's theologically sound, I couldn't defend, but its
practical.  Jesus said to the people of Israel, "Ye would not."

Now, some of you may not be students of the Bible, heck -some of you may not be
Christians.  Have you ever said to somebody, "I don't believe in hell.  I
believe in the religion of Jesus."  But did you know that Jesus talked more
about hell than He did about heaven!  "Oh I believe in the religion of the
sermon on the mount."  You find hell taught by Jesus in the sermon on the
mount.  You'll read that Jesus talked about the tree being cast into the fire.
Several times he talks about hell and about judgment.  In fact, over and over
in the synoptics, Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus talks about hell.  Not Isaiah.
Not Moses.  Not John the Baptist, though he did, but Jesus, the Son of God.
The great Beloved One preached about hell because He loved people and didn't
want to see them go there.

Now, if there is no hell then Jesus preached in vain.  It was our Lord Jesus,
not some angry Baptist preacher, that said, "where the worm never dies, and
where the fire never goes out."  Jesus said that.  It was Jesus who called hell
a "furnace of fire."  It was Jesus that used the word, "condemnation."  "And
this is the condemnation, that men love darkness rather than light because
their deeds are evil.  Jesus said that.

How can we get it across to you that a loving, dying Jesus preached about hell?
 Not only that, but He went through hell.  That's what Calgary was all about.
When my Lord was on the cross, darkness fell.  He called hell, "outer
darkness."

Do you have this idea that hell is a place where the gamblers are gambling over
here, the drunks are getting drunk over there, and the prostitutes are
prostituting their bodies over there?  That's not what hell is.  Hell's not a
party.  There's no fellowship there.  He called it "outer darkness."  "Outer"
-away from God.  "Darkness" -God is light.

No when He was on the cross, He was made sin for you and for me.  God treated
Jesus the way sinners have to be treated.  That's is a sobering thought.  As my
son would say, an "awesome" thought.

"My God, My God why hast Thou forsaken me?"  Hell is isolation.  There's no
fellowship in hell.  There's no friendship in hell.  There's no loving embrace
in hell.  There's no hand shake in hell.  There's no word of encouragement in
hell.

"I thirst."  It goes much deeper than physical thirst.  Hell is eternal craving
with no satisfaction.  The man whose life was lived for drugs, will crave it
eternally.  The man whose life was lived for the lust of a woman's body, will
crave it eternally -and not be satisfied.  One theologian has put it this way
and I think it deserves merit.  What is hell?  Hell is just the kind of
environment that matches the internal condition of the lost.

In a recent post, I was trying to remember the founder of The Word of Life
ministries.  I've remembered his name, Jack Wertzen, and found that the
illustration that I gave wasn't his.  His illustration was that he was talking
to his barber and his barber's wife and daughter had just recently been saved
and he was commenting about it to Jack.  "They sing these songs and read Bible
verses, and their praising this and that -I can't stand it!  Jack, do you think
God would send me to hell?"  Jack answered by saying, "Yes I think he would!"
Of course the barber said, "What do you mean by that."  "Well if you can't
stand living at home with your wife and daughter who sing hymns and praises to
God now, what would you do in heaven where they'll do it for eternity?  You'd
be miserable.  Because God loves you, He'd put you where it would match what
you really are."   It makes a man think.

The crucifixion of Jesus Christ is a fact that necessitates the eternal
existence of hell because on the cross He performed an eternal act.  Don't ask
me how, I don't know.  But He is God and He is the infinite/eternal and when He
died, He died an infinite/eternal death.  It is by that eternal act that He
purchased eternal life for the "whosoever wills."  He suffered eternal
judgment.

A lot of people would like to detour around hell by saying "Everybody is going
to be saved eventually."  -universalism.  My Bible says no, He'll separate
them.  The sheep from the goats.  ".After you die there's a probationary period
in which God prepares you for heaven."  No, my Bible says that "It is appointed
unto men once to die and then comes judgment."  Some of the cultist believe in
annihilation.  After you die, sssswish.  Just like a mosquito you're squished
out.  No, in Rev we are told that their is eternal existence in hell just as
there is in heaven.

I don't enjoy making these kind of statements and maybe you don't enjoy
listening to them, but we have to preach the entire Word of God.  -There is a
place called hell.  If I could give one verse of Scripture that could give any
hope that people aren't going there, I'd give it to you, but I haven't found
it.  That fact that there is a place called hell, the fact that our God is a
God of holiness and must judge sin, the fact that He has made us the kind of
creatures we are and therefore we're responsible, the fact that He has placed
us in a "uni"verse that has purpose and design behind it, the fact that sin is
such an awful thing and the fact that God Himself went through hell to save us
from hell leads us to two applications.

1)  As I've already mentioned.  If you are a Christian, you must worn others.
Its not good enough to stop and fix their flat tire and not tell them that just
around the bend the bridge is out.  "Knowing therefore the terror of Lord, we
persuade men."

2)  If you haven't accepted Jesus are your Savior, you're taking an awful
chance.  As I say to the Jehovah Witnesses (who no longer frequent my door), if
you are right and I am wrong, then I will have lived a good life and will die
and cease to exist, but if I am right and you are wrong, then you will die and
suffer eternal damnation.  I don't mean to make fun at this point, but its like
Dirty Harry said, "You've got to ask yourself, 'Do I feel lucky?'  Well do
you?"  "A man's got to know his limitations."  Don't be one of the "whosoever
wont's."


I just read an article on the SWII. One thing puzzles me: the article says the
SWII is a serial-only device. Does that mean I'll have to unplug my modem each
time I want to print something???


In <1993Apr15.143320.8618@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu sez:

There's this minor thing called "interest of finality/repose".  What
it means is that parties aren't dragged into court over and over again
because the losing side "discovers" some "new" evidence.  I don't know
about you, Brett, but I suspect GM had the resources to find just
about as many expert and fact witnesses as it wanted before the trial
started.  Letting them re-open the case now is practically an
invitation to every civil litigant on earth to keep an ace in the hole
in case the verdict goes against him.

BTW, in federal criminal cases, Rule 33 does permit a motion for a new
trial "based on . . . *newly discovered* evidence" if made within 2
years of the verdict.  (Emphasis mine.)  If you're trying to make a
backhanded point about criminal justice in a discussion that has
little to do with criminal trials -- as the estimable David Brock did
in his amusing WSJ piece last week -- save your breath.

Yup.  Which is why they shoulda been brought around the first time
through.

Unless there's some reason to believe that this supposed bias predated
the trial (as opposed to being a product of it), and that GM was
unfairly prevented from discovering it (by venireman concealment or
otherwise), why should GM be allowed to complain?


Depends on what you mean by "for a living".  1974 was the year he led the
league in pinch-hit at bats with 50, but he'd been getting a lot of PH ABs
earlier than that, and was never a full-time player.  20-35 PH ABs early in
his career, 15-20 a year just before going to the Dodgers, and 30-50 in the
peak years.

We're talking about a guy with a 20-year career as an outfielder, a .300+
career batting average, and 1130 or so career hits.


From:	MX%"Andy.Macrae@Corp.Sun.COM"  6-APR-1993 06:48:34.96
To:	SRGXNBS
CC:
Subj:	Re: I^2C bus and long haul serial (also Axlo

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From: Andy.Macrae@Corp.Sun.COM (Andrew MacRae)
Message-ID: <9304051847.AA05710@grendal.Corp.Sun.COM>
To: srgxnbs@grace.cri.nz
Subject: Re: I^2C bus and long haul serial (also Axlo
CC: Andy.Macrae@Corp.Sun.COM
content-length: 693

Bruce,
	For the latest information on Access.Bus call the Access.Bus
Industry Group at (408) 991-3517.  Also, Sun will be hosting the next
meeting of the group on April 19th, here in Mountain View.  For some reason
I am not able to post to any newsgroups today, so please feel free to pass
this information on yourself as you see fit.


Hello,


  Did the Russian spacecraft(s) on the ill-fated Phobos mission a few
years ago send back any images of the Martian moon?  If so, does anyone know if
they're housed at an ftp site?
  Thanks.


I have a Maxtor 212MB on an ISA IDE controller, although my machine is
DX2/66 VLB. I has the save transfer rate of 0.647 MB/s regardless of
the variations of the ISA bus speed. I tested it with speed between
5.5MHz and 8.33MHz. Not _any_ difference. The problem is not the
interface between the controller and the memory.

My advice: Buy 4Megs of RAM, save $70 and enjoy performance.

--
Penio Penev  x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu


  If the emphasis is on the "in general", then of course you're
  correct, since you haven't really said anything.  If we restrict
  our observations to practiced religions, there are lots of
  examples of god mandated genocide.  Just ask the Canaanites.  The
  point is that if you believe in a god, and if you believe he has
  ordered you to eliminate an entire race, you will likely make the
  attempt.  After all, if it was OK in the past, it could surely be
  OK in the present.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM

They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,
and sank Manhattan out at sea.


Hi I am a Sociology student and I am currently researching into
young offenders.  I am looking at the way various groups of
children are raised at home.  At the moment I am formlulating
information on discipline within the Christian home.

Please, if you are a parent in this catagory can you email me
your response to the following questionaire.  All responses
will be treated confidentially and will only be used to prepare
stats.

1.  Ages & sexes of children

2.  Do you spank your kids?

3.  If so how often?

4.  Do you use an implement to spank with?

5. If you do not spank, what method of discipline do you use?

6.  Your age?

7.  Your location

8.  While under the age of 16 did you ever commit a criminal
offence?

9.  How ere you disciplined as a kid

Thank you in advance for any reply you can make.  Please e-mail
your replies rather than post them on the newsgroup


Yes, and everyone thinks as you do.  No one thinks that he is going to cause
or be involved in a fatal accident, but the likelihood is surprisingly high.
Just because you are the man on the firing squad whose gun is shooting
blanks does not mean that you are less guilty.

You mean that killing is wrong in all but one situtation?  And, you should
note that that situation will never occur.  There are always other options
thank killing.  Why don't you just say that all killing is wrong.  This
is basically what you are saying.

Are you attempting to be condescending?

But, most people have found the risk to be acceptable.  You are probably
much more likely to die in a plane crash, or even using an electric
blender, than you are to be executed as an innocent.  I personally think
that the risk is acceptable, but in an ideal moral system, no such risk
is acceptable.  "Acceptable" is the fudge factor necessary in such an
approximation to the ideal.


[After a small refresh Hasan got on the track again.]

   |>    |> I get the impression Hasan realized he goofed and is now
   |>    |> trying to drop the thread. Let him. It might save some
   |>    |> miniscule portion of his sorry face.

   |>    Not really. since i am a logical person who likes furthering himself
   |>    from any "name calling", i started trashing any article that contains
   |>    such abuses without responding to, and sometimes not even reading articles
   |>    written by those who acquired such bad habits from bad company!
   |>
   |> Ah, but in my followup on the subject (which you, by the way, never bothered
   |> responding to..) there was no name-calling. Hence the assumption.
   |> Do you feel more up to it now, so that we might have an answer?
   |> Or, to refresh your memory, does the human right issue in the area
   |> apply to Palestinians only? Also, do you claim there is such a thing as
   |> forfeiting a human right? If that's possible, then explain to the rest of
   |> us how there can exist any such thing?
   |>
   |> Use your logic, and convince us! This is your golden chance!

   |> Jonas Flygare,

   well , ok. let's see what Master of Wisdom, Mr. Jonas Flygare,
   wrote that can be wisdomely responded to :

Are you calling names, or giving me a title? If the first, read your
paragraph above, if not I accept the title, in order to let you get into the
um, well, debate again.

   |> [hasan]

   |> |> [flax]

   |> |> |> [hasan]

   |> |> |>    In case you didNOT know, Palestineans were there for 18 months.
   |> |> |>    and they are coming back
   |> |> |>    when you agree to give Palestineans their HUMAN-RIGHTS.

   |> |> |>    Afterall, human rights areNOT negotiable.

   |> |> |> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the right to one's life _also_
   |> |> |> a 'human right'?? Or does it only apply to palestinians?

   |> |> No. it is EVERYBODY's right. However, when a killer kills, then he is giving
   |> |> up -willingly or unwillingly - his life's right to the society.
   |> |> the society represented by the goverment would exercise its duty by
   |> |> depriving the killer off his life's right.

   |> So then it's all right for Israel to kill the people who kill Israelis?
   |> The old 'eye for an eye' thinking? Funny, I thought modern legal systems
   |> were made to counter exactly that.

   So what do you expect me to tell you to tell you, Master of Wsidom,
							       ^^^
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you insist on giving me names/titles I did not ask for you could at
least spell them correctly. /sigh.

   when you are intentionally neglecting the MOST important fact that
   the whole israeli presence in the occupied territories is ILLEGITIMATE,
   and hence ALL their actions, their courts, their laws are illegitimate on
   the ground of occupied territories.

No, I am _not_ neglecting that, I'm merely asking you whether the existance
of Israeli citicens in the WB or in Gaza invalidates those individuals right
to live, a (as you so eloquently put it) human right. We can get back to the
question of which law should be used in the territories later. Also, you have
not adressed my question if the israelis also have human rights.

   What do you expect me to tell you, Master of Wisdom, when I did explain my
   point in the post, that you "responded to". The point is that since Israel
   is occupying then it is automatically depriving itself from some of its rights
   to the Occupied Palestineans, which is exactly similar the automatic
   deprivation of a killer from his right of life to the society.

If a state can deprive all it's citizens of human rights by its actions, then
tell me why _any_ human living today should have any rights at all?

   |> |> In conjugtion with the above, when a group of people occupies others
   |> |> territories and rule them by force, then this group would be -willingly or
   |> |> unwillingly- deprived from some of its rights.

   |> Such as the right to live? That's nice. The swedish government is a group
   |> of people that rule me by force. Does that give me the right to kill
   |> them?

   Do you consider yourself that you have posed a worthy question here ?

Worthy or not, I was just applying your logic to a related problem.
Am I to assume you admit it wouldn't hold?

   |> |> What kind of rights and how much would be deprived is another issue?
   |> |> The answer is to be found in a certain system such as International law,
   |> |> US law, Israeli law ,...

   |> And now it's very convenient to start using the legal system to prove a
   |> point.. Excuse me while I throw up.

   ok, Master of Wisdom is throwing up.
   You people stay away from the screen while he is doing it !

Oh did you too watch that comedy where they pipe water through the telephone?
I'll let you in on a secret... It's not for real.. Take my word for it.

   |> |> It seems that the US law -represented by US State dept in this case-
   |> |> is looking to the other way around when violence occurs in occupied territories.
   |> |> Anyway, as for Hamas, then obviously they turned to the islamic system.

   |> And which system do you propose we use to solve the ME problem?

   The question is NOT which system would solve the ME problem. Why ? because
   any system can solve it.
   The laws of minister Sharon says kick Palestineans out of here (all palestine).

I asked for which system should be used, that will preserve human rights for
all people involved. I assumed that was obvious, but I won't repeat that
mistake. Now that I have straightened that out, I'm eagerly awaiting your
reply.

   Joseph Weitz (administrator responsible for Jewish colonization)
   said it best when writing in his diary in 1940:
	   "Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both
	   peoples together in this country.... We shall not achieve our goal
						^^^                  ^^^
	   of being an independent people with the Arabs in this small country.
	   The only solution is a Palestine, at least Western Palestine (west of
	   the Jordan river) without Arabs.... And there is no other way than
	   to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to
	   transfer all of them; not one village, not one tribe, should be
	   left.... Only after this transfer will the country be able to
	   absorb the millions of our own brethren. There is no other way out."
				   DAVAR, 29 September, 1967
				   ("Courtesy" of Marc Afifi)

Just a question: If we are to disregard the rather obvious references to
getting Israel out of ME one way or the other in both PLO covenant and HAMAS
charter (that's the english translations, if you have other information I'd
be interested to have you translate it) why should we give any credence to
a _private_ paper even older? I'm not going to get into the question if he
wrote the above, but it's fairly obvious all parties in the conflict have
their share of fanatics. Guess what..? Those are not the people that will
make any lasting peace in the region. Ever. It's those who are willing to
make a tabula rasa and start over, and willing to give in order to get
something back.

   "We" and "our" either refers to Zionists or Jews (i donot know which).

   Well, i can give you an answer, you Master of Wisdom, I will NOT suggest the
   imperialist israeli system for solving the ME problem !

   I think that is fair enough .

No, that is _not_ an answer, since I asked for a system that could solve
the problem. You said any could be used, then you provided a contradiction.
Guess where that takes your logic? To never-never land.

   "The greatest problem of Zionism is Arab children".
			   -Rabbi Shoham.

Oh, and by the way, let me add that these cute quotes you put at the end are
a real bummer, when I try giving your posts any credit.
--


Officially, no. From experience (yours now included!), yes. Quantums seem to
be the most problem-free brand on the Mac.

It should not matter for the hard drive or the Mac.  Well, as long as it
doesn't fall over.   ;)

Doug


UN Resolution 666 guarantees humanitarian aid will get into Irag during
the Gulf War.  Is this war over? Is aid getting in, or are they still
trying to smoke out Saddam?  Is this the Middle East?  Are we talking
religious war here?  Am I ranting?


"Bare" means what it says. You get a case, a power supply, and a motherboard
(with RAM and a coprocessor). *Everything* else is yours to add as you like.

The case/power supply:

     - Standard desktop case. 230watt power supply with the usual connectors.
     - Room for five floppy/hard drives (three visible, two internal).

The motherboard:

    - US-made Micronics 8-slot motherboard with Intel 386dx/25mhz CPU
    - 64kb SRAM cache
    - 4mb 80us RAM using 4x1mb simms (worth $150 alone)
    - Cyrix 83D87 math coprocessor (worth $90 alone)
    - Norton SI 6.0 rating of 26.1
    - Latest version Phoenix BIOS

Please do not post/email saying "but I can get a Taiwanese SuperClone
386/90 for only $9.95 including a free toaster!". I am *certain* you can
find a cheaper Brand X board without even breaking a sweat. *New* Micronics
CPUs command a several-hundred dollar premium because they are US-made,
use high-quality components, and are known to be both very reliable and
compatible. They have been OEMed in systems sold by both Gateway and
Zeos at various points in the past. (Check out the ads in the back pages
of Byte or PC Magazine if you want to see this price differential for
yourself.)

Price: $495 complete, $100 less if you don't want/need the case and
power supply. The board is fully guaranteed. Email for further details
or for any questions.

Thanks!


The problem is with ISA bus-masters which
can only address the first 16MBs of system
memory.  Bus-masters do not use the CPU
nor the system DMA to do the actual data
transfer but transfer their data directly
to the system RAM.

rp93


I plan to post a summary of responses to this as soon as I have working
code, which I will also include.  The intersection of 3 planes method
looks best, but my implementation based on a short article in
Graphics Gems I doesn't work.  I may be misinterpreting, of course.

I had avoided the simultaneous solution of the plane equations in favor
of dot and cross products, but the former may actually be better.  In either
case a matrix determinant needs to be computed (implicitly in the solution
of linear equations).

To get the planes, I was taking the midpoint of the line from, say,
P1 to P2, and setting the normal as the "normalized" vector from P1 to P2.
These just plugged into the formula in Graphics Gems.  HOwever, the resulting
center point is only occasionally equidistant from all 4 of my test points
(for different tests).  My matrix/vector math is very rusty, but it looks like
I need to verify the formula, or use the simultaneous equation solution, which
will require bringing in another routine I don't have (but should be easy to
find).

Another method is to first find the center of the circle defined by 2 sets
of 3 points, and intersecting the normals from there.  This would also define
the circle center.  However, small numerical imprecisions would make the
lines not intersect.  Supposedly 3 planes HAVE to intersect in a unique
point if they are not parallel.

Ed

Thanks to all who answered so far.


# -#	Just curious (don't have to answer if you feel uncomfortable):
# -#	how many times have YOU had sex with boys?
#
# why do you care?  if a total stranger asked you how often you had sex,
# would you answer?
#
# # henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com#

This is so typical of homosexuals -- constantly making excuses for
child molesters.


Definitely, J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, numero uno, top dog, not one can touch, not
one can knock Bob out of the box. Bob kills me mon! Everyday!

But close El Segundo (el subliminal) is the infamous Paul (birthname Saul) the
Evangeline who became famous as a result of his numerous trampoline act
tours of the eastern Mediterranean.


I attended high school in the San Jose, California area in the early 1980's,
and I remember a (smallish) outbreak of a strange illness, in which
people developed measles-like spots on their bodies.  This condition
seemed to last only a few days, and I don't recall anyone reporting any other
symptoms.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that this was believed to have
been viral in nature, but I don't know for sure.

However, I have been curious since then about this.


think again!!  thanks to 60 minutes (tick tick tick), used 200
quattros are bargains.. '89s go for about $15K, '90s go for perhaps 1
or 2K more, the 20 valve 91's are quite a bit more because of an
enormous hp and torque gain.. i think they go for about $23 to $25K if
you can find one.  i have seen quite a lot of '89-'90 200 quattros (not
that many wagons though) at the dealer lot.. they use very high
quality paint and the entire car is zinc galvanized, so it will never
rust.

in short, typically a 4 yr old 200 looks no more older than a 1 year
old and the 5 bangers are bullet proof engines.  200K out of one is
not rare, even for a turbo, which is watercooled for the 200s.  then
there are aftermarket chips that you can buy to bump up turbo boost...

if you are into luxo-gizmos.. the cars are loaded with just about
everything too..

the price of parts is a different story though...


This is true as evinced by the popularity of shaft-drive drag bikes.


Hi all:
Thanks to you all who have responded
to my request for info on various kinds of fax modem.
I'd like to ask a few more questions.
1.  What are the advantages of buying a global village
Teleport Gold over other cheaper brands like Supra, Zoom etc?
2.  I heard that both Supra and Zoom use the same software.
Why are there so many complaints about the incompatibility problems
of Supra?  What kind of incompatibility is it?
3.  If I decided to buy the Teleport Gold, is there any
possibility to add a voice option in the near future?
4.  Has anyone heard of a possible voice option that Supra will offer
this coming summer?
5.  A person did mention a new AT&T modem.  Is it
getting good reviews from various Mac Magazines?
6.  If I want the best, fastest, most economically sound and
possible voice option, what fax modem should I buy?

Sorry for posting so many questions, but I think they're necessary.
I promise to repost any answers if they're not already posted by a responder.

Thanks so much in advance.

Regards,


Don't get too excited; Signetics, not Motorola, gave the 68070 its number.
The 68070, if I understand rightly, uses the 68000 instruction set, and has
an on-chip serial port and DMA.  (It will run at up to 15 MHz--I'm typing
at a computer using a 68070 running at that rate, so I know that it can
do so--so I seriously doubt the clock rate that ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
claims.)


Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick question
Summary:
Expires:
Sender:
Reply-To: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino  Tobio)
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords: Removing panels.

Quick question. Why are you posting this to a VW newsgroup?

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick Question
Summary:
Distribution: world
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords:

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick question
Summary:
Expires:
References: <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com>
Sender:
Reply-To: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino  Tobio)
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords: Removing panels.


	Good point, but I was just thinking.. I wanted to sell my HP28sx
calculator here in this newsgroup... It is called a calculator, but really
it is a computer, albeit a small one, but it does function as one... How
come car adds are acceptable? They cant run without computers nowadays....
Where does one draw the line? Accept it, live with it, and if you care to,
avoid it....
jonathan


Gee, I'd better tell this to the Mental Health Branch of the Israeli Army
Medical Corps ! Where would we be without  you, Davidson ?

Sigh.

Four (4) deer in Tel Aviv ?? Well, this is probably as accurate as the rest of
this fantasy.

Yisrael Shahak the crackpot chemist ?  Figures.  I often see him in the
Rechavia (Jerusalem) post office. A really sad figure. Actually, I  feel sorry
for him. He was in a concentration camp during the Holocaust  and it must have
affected him deeply.


Rob Reilly:

This is just not so - many of the earliest cars had their steering
controls in the center of the vehicle, and there is no discernible
pattern of left- or right-hand steering controls until a few years into
the 20th century, when, in America at least, left-hand wheels became the
pattern. The mule team (or horses, I imagine) explanation, however,
seems to have some merit.

Dan
dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University
Applied History


AL>>        Question:   Is there a certain device out there that I can
AL>>                    use to find out the number to the line?
AL>>        Thanks for any response.
AL>>                                                    Al

AL>There is a number you can call which will return a synthesized
AL>voice telling you the number of the line.  Unfortunately, for the
AL>life of me I can't remember what it is. The telephone technicians
AL>use it all the time.  We used to play around with this in our
AL>dorm rooms since there were multiple phone lines running between
AL>rooms.

It probably wouldn't help for you to post the number, since it appears
to be different in each area.  For what it's worth, in the New Orleans
area the number is 998-877-6655 (easy to remember, what?)

 * SLMR 2.1 * Ask me anything: if I don't know, I'll make up something.


To those interested in the new ATI Ultra Cards:

I had posted some questions regarding the new ATI Ultra Pro cards and
had asked confirmation of some opinions.

This message is a summary of the responses. Thanks to all of you that
replied.

a) The higher memory limits apply to ISA cards only, as far as I know.  The VLB
   and EISA version should have no problems.

b) I'm pretty sure from my experience that the ISA version doesn't
   work in systems with over 16M Ram.  There is supposed to be way
   of switching the "memory aperture" feature off to prevent this,
   but apparently it doesn't work.  I posted some "help me" messages
   on the net and people indicated that the EISA card didn't have this
   problem.

c) FALSE

d) The VLB card, which I have, allows you to set memory aperture over 32M
   by using their configuration software.  No messing with jumpers necessary.

   The 32M problem is probably valid only for ISA cards.

a) Again, the memory aperture need only be disabled if you have more than 124M RAM
   (EISA and VLB) or 12 M (ISA).  32M should not be a problem for you.

b) Dunno.

c) Depends on the bus. YES if ISA, NO if EISA or Localbus

a) Nope.  I can use 640x480 at 72hz, 24-bit and 800x600 at 70hz, 24-bit, all
   non-interlaced.

b) Yes - According to PC Magazine, they've tested a local bus version
   that does 1024x768 in 24-bit which may or may not be interlaced.

c) Not for the Pro. Sometimes for the Plus.

   Some modes may run only interlaced on certain monitors. This has nothing to
   do with 24 bits ... only with screen size. Note that for 24 bit color
   and Windows you MUST have 2 megs, memory size calculations notwithstanding.

a) They aren't perfect, but are much improved.  I don't recall the last time which
   I had to leave mach 32 mode (ATI GUP mode) and switch to 8514 or VGA mode due
   to software incompatibility.

b) True.  Many people recommended going back to Build 55 or 54.

c) They appear to be excellent, but have a few bugs. For example, certain
   graphs with dashed lines in Mathcad 3.1 do not print correctly, though they
   do display OK on the screen. They are about par for fancy cards ..
   other accelerated cards also have bugs.

d) Overall, I like the card, even if driver performance is somewhat less than
   satisfactory.  I am running the 1024*768 16 Color mode as that is all my
   NT driver for October NT version seems to allow.

   I will say this that Color performance is not quite as nice as a Diamond
   Stealth VRAM, but I have not been able to try out a lot of the options on
   the old driver.

a) It's quite fast, but whether or not its the fastest is open to debate.

b) Yes - I'll admit it was very very fast in 16-bit mode, which is what
   I wanted to use it for.  Too bad it crashed (in many different ways)
   every 20 minutes or so...

c) Depends on many many things.

a) I like it.

b) Well - PC Magazine seems to think it is.

c) Yes, this appears to be true :-)

d) As to greatest thing since sliced bread, I doubt it.  Better cards are
   coming out.  Who knows, maybe ATI will come out with something faster yet.
   Several reviews I read rated one Pycon Winjet card as a superior performer
   at a cheaper price except for availability of drivers, which Pycon was
   developing at that time.  (PC Magazine, about two months or so back)

   Overall, the card has a lot of potential, but you have to be able to use it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is the end of the questions. These were the most discussed items in this
group so I thought they needed confirmation. For those of you not familiar
with the card I have included a summary here (from an ATI ad since I don't have
an Graphics Ultra yet.)

ATI Graphics Ultra Plus:
- Accelerated 1024x768 at 65K colours
- True colour(16.7M) at 800x600
- Multimedia Video Acceleration (for Indeo Video,RLE and Video 1 compressed)
  Stretch full motion video windows to full size
- Fast VGA
- Includes 3 button mouse (ISA versions only)
- Anti-aliased fonts (ed. avail in 16 colour mode only,I think)
- Real-time pan and zoom across large virtual windows desktop
- Around a 1/2 length card size
- Priced from $400 U.S.

ATI Graphics Ultra Pro:
- Everything in Graphics Ultra Plus
- Faster performance with VRAMS
- Accelerated 1280x1024 at 256 colours 74Hz non-interlaced
- Available in ISA, EISA and Microchannel
- Priced from $600 U.S.

ATI Technologies
(416) 756-0718

I hope this summary can be of use to you.

Al

P.S.  I am not associated with ATI Technologies in any way other
      than having used their previous ATI Ultra card for a few
      years (which I generally liked).


Yes.  But this is *irrelevant*.  You're talking about averages, when we
have lots of information about THIS PLAYER IN PARTICULAR to base our
decisions on.

I might as well say "We know that very, very few people are more than 7 feet
tall, so chances are that Manute Bol is really only 6 foot 4."

Why isn't Lopez likely to hit that well?  He hit that well last year (after
adjusting his stats for park and league and such); he hit better (on an
absolute scale) than Olson or Berryhill did.  By a lot.

As for rushing...  If there really is a qualitative difference between the
minors and the majors that requires a period of adjustment (and I don't
believe there is), then wouldn't you rather waste Lopez's 22-year old good
season than his 23-year old very good season or his 24-year-old excellent
season?  The sooner you get him acclimated, the more of his prime you get to
use.

The point was not that 17 AB is a significant sample, but rather that he
hadn't done anything in spring training to cause even a blockhead manager
to question whether his minor league numbers were for real, or to send him
down "until he gets warmed up".

Most players are *never* ready for the bigs.  What does this have to do
with Javy Lopez?

See above.

But I could apply the same reasoning to Frank Thomas or Barry Bonds.  Most
players aren't that good, so they probably won't be that good this year
either.

And demonstrated inabilities to hit their way out of a soap bubble.

Not superstars, not stars, not even good players.  Maybe average, if we're
being charitable.

Ummm.  Justice is a very fine hitter.  Pendleton might have another big year
in his bat, but he might also spend the season in Hamstring Hell.  Gant is a
big question mark.  The Bream/Hunter platoon is decent (not excellent) and
has rotten OBP or SLG (depending on who's in).  Blauser is a very valuable
bat... for a shortstop.

Wanna bet?  The difference between Lopez's bat and Olson/Berryhill could be
20 or 30 runs over the course of the season.  Given a choice between a player
with experience and a player who can play, I'll take the latter every time.

Just like Keith Mitchell did?

That was me, and you so far your only counter-proposal is that they
really don't understand how good Lopez is, or overvalue experience,
or some combination of the two.  I think my interpretation was more
flattering to the organization.

[Well-argued but inflammatory reply deleted.]


In <sfnNTrC00WBO43LRUK@andrew.cmu.edu> "David R. Sacco" <dsav+@andrew.cmu.edu>

Yes.

MAC
--
****************************************************************
                                                    Michael A. Cobb
 "...and I won't raise taxes on the middle     University of Illinois
    class to pay for my programs."                 Champaign-Urbana
          -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate             cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu


Hi All,
  I'm asking for info on behalf of a friend. Is there, what would
be, the best way to copy the output of a monitor on to video
tape? Any ideas? Please prescribe additional hardware and/or
software? (I'm just assuming an Intel/Windows environment).
Thanks in advance. --Jerry


For Sale:

      Tektronix 4208 Color Terminal
      Tektronix 4510A Rasterizer
      Tektronix 4692 InkJet Printer

      Tektronix 4692 Printer Extras (all Tektronix products):

        Paper (> 3 boxes)
        Transparencies (> 2 boxes)
        Maintenance Cartridges (2 cart)
        Magenta Ink Cartridge (1 cart)

  We would like to sell as a single lot, and preference
  will be given to offers for the entire list.  All offers
  accepted, best offer gets the equipment.

  -- Bob


: As far as I can tell, the MD is an offshoot of technology that already exists.
: It is an MO drive.  MO drives exist already for computers.  They're expensive
: and a bit slow, but the disks are cheep (128 mb disks).  Dan.

I read a recent article in Personal Computer World mainly about the new
digit audion formats (DCC and MD) but at the end talked about how nice
it would be to use these for data storage with a brief calculation of
how much data you could store. The author had been talking to someone
from Sony about these formats and mentioned this to get the reply "MD
is a purely audio format, we wouldn't use it for data", then when
pressed for info about MO the Sony man basically admitted that it was
no more than a slight adaptabtion on MD!

What I think the original poster was wanting was MO drives at MD audio
player prices. I'd assume that the problem here is that an MD system
can have higher tolerances than an MO system as the ear doesn't pick up
the occasional bit error as well as an archiving program!

--


The Wall Street Journal had an article on how the police were whining
about all the new guns; excuse me, but police are EMPLOYEES of the
government. Rather like having your janitor complain about job
conditions.

I say Californians should form armed block clubs that would engage
in coordinated strategies should BATF attempt to disarm them based
on the "nefarious tipster" theory of law enforcement. Unlike Waco,
Californians should be able to destroy armored vehicles in city
streets with incendiary weapons, acetylene after slowing them down
with abandoned car blockades. M-1 Garands should easily outclass
BATF shock troops with their H&K MP-5 SMGs, and there should be
enough Sony Walkmans and Boom Boxes to overwhelm any FBI psy-war
operation... yes, a good time would be had by all. Billary Clinton
would get what he wanted, a War on Gunowners, the BATF would attempt
to show the anti-gun press they they really, REALLY were in charge
with a 500-man "Charge of the Light Brigade," and the FBI would attempt
to show how _THEY_ really were in charge by asking the Californian
National Guard to level the area with artillary!


Did you remember to clamp ground to the engine block first?


/(hudson)
/If someone inflicts pain on themselves, whether they enjoy it or not, they
/are hurting themselves.  They may be permanently damaging their body.

That is true.  It is also none of your business.

Some people may also reason that by reading the bible and being a Xtian
you are permanently damaging your brain.  By your logic, it would be OK
for them to come into your home, take away your bible, and send you off
to "re-education camps" to save your mind from ruin.  Are you ready for
that?

/(hudson)
/And why is there nothing wrong with it?  Because you say so?  Who gave you
/the authority to say that, and set the standard for morality?

Why?

Because:
I am a living, thinking person able to make choices for myself.
I do not "need" you to show me what you think is the way; I have observed
too many errors in your thinking already to trust you to make up the
rules for me.

Because:
I set the standard for my *own* morality, and I permit you to do
the same for yourself.  I also do not try to force you to accept my rules.

Because:
Simply because you don't like what other people are doing doesn't give you
the right to stop it, Hudson.  We are all aware that you would like for
everyone to be like you.  However, it is obnoxious, arrogant thinking like
yours, the "I-know-I'm-morally-right-so-I-can-force-it-on-you" bullshit
that has brought us religious wars, pogroms against Jews, gay-bashing,
and other atrocities by other people who, like you, "knew" they were
morally right.

(me)

/(hudson)
/Aren't you?  Aren't you indicating that I should not tell other people what
to do?  Aren't you telling me it is wrong for me to do that?

It is not a moral standard that I am presenting you with, Hudson.  It is
a key to getting along in life with other people.  It is also a point of
respect:  I trust other people to be intelligent enough to make their
own choices, and I expect the same to be returned.  You, on the other
hand, do not trust them, and want to make the choice for them--whether
they like it or not.

It is also a way to avoid an inconsistency:  if you believe that you have
the right to set moral standards for others and interfere in their lives,
then you must, by logic, admit that other people have the same right of
interference in your life.
(Yes, I know; you will say that your religion is correct and tells you that
only agents acting in behalf of your religion have the right of interference.
However, other people will say that you have misinterpreted the Word of
God and that *they* are the actual true believers, and that you are
acting on your own authority.  And so it goes).

(hudson)
/Who gave
/you the authority to set such a moral standard for me to tell me that I
/cannot set a moral standard for others?

You can set all the standards that you want, actually.  But don't be surprised
if people don't follow you like rats after the Pied Piper.

At the most basic form, I am not going to LET you tell me what to do;
and if necessary, I will beat you to a bloody pulp before I let you actually
interfere in my life.


Thanks to all who responded.   The three items (electric vest,
Aerostitch Suit, and Scarf) are all spoken for.

-Gary


I bought a Viewsonic 17 for use at home but after a week I took it back.  I
felt for the money my NEC 5FG that I use at work was a much better monitor.
The NEC is sharper, flatter, less distorted, and more stable.  I have heard
complaints from people about the NEC FG series having some quality control
problems but mine has been in use for about a year with no problems at all.

There was nothing really broken with the Viewsonic but overall it did not
match up.  I used my ATI Graphics Ultra in setup mode to push the
frequencies to their limits and the Viewsonic exhibited some problems that
the NEC did not.  I personally like the non-etched NEC with the OCLI filter
and the tube on the 17 was not as nice.  The 17 had some uncorrectable
pincusion and edge distortion problems.  Also, it would change brightness
when I switched modes and I was constantly having to fiddle with the
controls.  And the yoke was crooked and I had no way to compensate for the
raster that tilted downhill.  On the postive side, although not as handsome
as the NEC, the 17 had a smaller footprint and was not as heavy.

I have heard that Panasonic owns Viewsonic and the model 17 is being sold
through OEM channels with a Panasonic label on it.  If it's available that
way at a lower cost I could get more serious about it.  For now the NEC has
my vote but I'm searching for one of the new, cheaper, NEC 5FGe's to see if
it's just as good as its older brother the 5FG before I decide which one to
buy.

I have no experience with the Nanao.  I can never keep the Nanao models
straight and don't have any place I can walk in to get a good comparison of
all models.

--

Standard employer disclaimers apply


Use a GC with the subwindow_mode attribute set to IncludeInferiors. The
default is ClipByChildren. However, beware if any of the children are of
a different depth to the parent; the semantics of this are undefined by the
protocol.


Please help if you can with the following strange problem:

  The Maxtor 340 drive in my 386 clone would from time to
  time, for no obvious reason spin down completely (one can
  tell by the sound) and simply refuse to be accessed. DOS
  reacts with an error (Drive D: cannot be accessed or
  something the like). Unfortunately, I cannot just reproduce
  the error. Sometimes it occurs more often, sometimes
  less. The last time it happened was when I wanted to
  demonstrate some software to a colleague.
    I would like to know if anybody has experienced similar
  problems. I don't like to take the thing to the dealer
  only to be told that there's nothing wrong with it. I
  checked the other post in this group about Maxtor, and
  I don't seem to be the only one who has problems. However,
  no one describes the same problem, and I also have a
  different configuration.

  Thanx in advance for any e-mailed help.

  Peter

LIST OF EQUIPMENT
  Computer "Mandax" Mainboard 386-33, 2MB
  Adaptec 1542 SCSI Master
  Maxtor LXT340S SCSI-II Hard Drive
  NEC CDR-83 CD-ROM Reader (problem remains with CD-ROM removed)
  ET4000 VGA Card

CONFIG.SYS
  files=30
  device=C:\dos\setver.exe
  device=C:\windows\himem.sys
  device=C:\system\aspi4dos.sys
  device=C:\system\aswcdnec.sys /d:neccd
  DOS=HIGH
  COUNTRY=041,,C:\dos\country.sys
  device=C:\dos\display.sys CON=(EGA,,1)

AUTOEXE.BAT
  C:\windows\smartdrive.sys
  PATH=C:\windows;c:\dos
  SET TEMP=C:\dos
  MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((437) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
  MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=437
  KEYB SG,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
  C:\SYSTEM\MSCDEX /D:NECCD /L:d /v


...

Please.  Have a care with Phil.  We liked him a lot in Pittsburgh.  He
didn't score a lot if you look at his stats last year but he worked his
butt off.  It was his speed that created opportunities in the offensive
zone that allowed the Pens to utilize his potential.  I haven't been
paying attention to him this year so I can't say I know what you're
objecting to.  He has been out with injuries though, hasn't he?  And
if the offense isn't there, there's not much his speed will do for you.
Like I said, he created opportunities but he didn't score much.  I thought
the money offered from the Rangers was a little high, and so did the Pens,
I guess.

Joseph Stiehm

...

Please.  Have a care with Phil.  We liked him a lot in Pittsburgh.  He
didn't score a lot if you look at his stats last year but he worked his
butt off.  It was his speed that created opportunities in the offensive
zone that allowed the Pens to utilize his potential.  I haven't been
paying attention to him this year so I can't say I know what you're
objecting to.  He has been out with injuries though, hasn't he?  And
if the offense isn't there, there's not much his speed will do for you.
Like I said, he created opportunities but he didn't score much.  I thought
the money offered from the Rangers was a little high, and so did the Pens,
I guess.


Because you are uptight?

Many computer-literate people see advantages in each system.

You act like a Mac ate your cat.


No, they fold on the dotted line.  Look at pictures of carriers with loads of
a/c on the deck, wings all neatly folded.


[it has to do with honoring the laws of the state, and]

I would go further: if a couple are unwilling to have their commitment
publicly witnessed and recorded, that's prima facie evidence that the
commitment isn't really there.


I agree with you about the upgrade path; but I think I was fair.

The original posting complained (1) about SGI coming out with newer (and
better) architectures and not having an upgrade path from the older ones,
and (2) that DEC did.

On statement (1), I merely attempted to point out that all computer
companies are constantly attempting to improve their product (& market
position/share).  In so doing, they eventually come to a point where they
have a new architecture, and the only upgrade path is to replace the
system.  And the particular system he was complaining about was (in
computer lifetimes) relatively old.

On statement (2), I felt DEC's history of providing upgrades was not far
superior than the industry "average", and that, in my opinion, SGI's
history is better than DEC's.

(And what is DEC doing with it's MIPS based DECstation line?  Are they
going to "abandon" it for their Alpha based line, or provide an upgrade
path to R4400's and TFP's and R5's?)


I was recently talking to a possible employer ( mine! :-) ) and he made a reference to a
48-bit graphics computer/image processing system.  I seem to remember it being called IMAGE or
something akin to that.  Anyway, he claimed it had 48-bit color + a 12-bit alpha channel.  That's
60 bits of info--what could that possibly be for?  Specifically the 48-bit color?  That's 280
trillion colors, many more than the human eye can resolve.  Is this an anti-aliasing thing?  Or
is this just some magic number to make it work better with a certain processor.

	Also, to settle a bet with my roommate, what are SGI's flagship products?  I know of
Iris, Indigo, and Crimson, but what are the other ones, and which is their top-of-the-line?
(sadly, I have access to none of them.  Just a DEC 5000/25.  Sigh.)


The floppy is served by DMA on the motherboard,
and original DMA-controller can't reach more than the first
16MB (The address-space of the ISA-bus)
joerg


DAMN RIGHT it doesn't!  Ohm's come from the greek letter omega, which
is used for resistance/impedance.

Of course, the original poster MAY have been being facetious (let's hope
so).


Bullshit.  You've been in Iceland for the past 30 years.  You told us
so yourself.  It had something to do with not wanting to suffer the
fate of your mother, who has lived with Jews for a long time or
somesuch.  Sounded awful.

Are you as concerned about peace and justice in Palestine (Jordan)?

Let's say that Israel grants the PLO _EVERYTHING THEY EVER ASKED FOR_.
That Israel goes back to the 1967 borders.  What will the "Palestinean
Arabs" in Tel-Aviv call themselves?  The Palestineans in West
Jerusalem?  In Haifa?  Will they still claim to be "occupied"?

Or do you suggest that Israel expell or kill off any remaining Arabs,
much as the Arabs did to their Jews?

Indeed, there is much which is not symmetrical about the conflict in
the M.E.  And most of this lack of symmetry does NOT favor Israel.


And, I might add, vitamin C has been endorsed by a Nobel Laureate as a
panacea for almost everything from the common cold to cancer.

Wait a minute. S&K did NOT compare trends.  If they did, they would
have seen that the advent of Canada's gun law had no effect on
homicides, total or handgun.  Without a pre- vs. post comparison, one
cannot speculate as to the utility of anything.  All they have is a
correlation, and correlation DOES NOT prove causality.

Hold it again. You dismiss a point about demographics, then you ask
about socio-economic demographics? Very slick.

Once again, correlation does not prove causality.  Looking at pre-vs.
post data, the Canadian gun law had no effect.

Sir, if you were a Canadian, and owned a gun before the restrictive
gun laws were passed, and decided to hide it rather than turn it in,
would you answer truthfully a question about gun ownership from
someone who calls, writes, or asks you on the street?  That is one
problem with surveys.  Nobody will answer an incriminating question.
Another is that people will often tell you what they THINK you want to
here.

Does that mean no Vancouver citizens have handguns? I think not. You
are discounting guns purchased beforehand, and guns purchased for
purposes other than self-defense, which can also be used for defense.

He makes valid points about demographic differences.  You then resort
to the kind of argument that the "Politically Correct" movement often
uses to stifle any debate.  Nice, real nice.

One doesn't have to produce his own data in order to point out the
flaws in the methodology and conclusions of another's study. Again,
you resort to PC tactics.


  > Hi.
  >
  > I use Emacs and I want to customize my keyboard better.
  > When I set up stuff in my .emacs with a keymap and define-keys,
  > I can only access certain of the keys on my X-Terminal's
  > keyboard. I can't get e.g. F10, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn; they all
  > seem to have either the same or no keycode. I have a feeling
  > this can't be fixed in emacs itself, but that I need to do some
  > xmodmap stuff. Can someone help me?

Unfortunately, the key event handling is pretty much hardwired into
emacs.  I ran into this problem a while back; my solution was to
change the source code so that all of these special keys generated
character sequences which basically encoded the keysym and modifier
state as escape sequences -- for example, the sequence "ESC [ 1 B 7"
would indicate that the "HOME" key was pressed, with the shift key
down.  You could also detect standard keys with odd modifiers, such
as "shift-Return".

If anybody wants these changes, they're welcome to them, but you'll
have to have the source available and be comfortable munging with
it a bit.  Basically you have to replace the keypress handling code
in the source file "x11term.c".  Maybe if someone at OSF is
interested, I can send them the tweaks, but I imagine they've got
bigger fish to fry (hopefully including the much talked about
emacs V19!).  If there's sufficient interest, I'll post the mods
somewhere, although this probably isn't the appropriate group for it.

Notes:

 * This special code will only apply if you let emacs create
   its own (X11) window.  If you run it in plain old tty mode (which
   includes Xterm windows) then it's business as usual.

 * The patches I made were to version 18.58, under Sun OS 4.1.2
   [I also did this a while back under HP-UX].  The patches are
   in a chunk of code between '#if sun ... #endif' but could
   easily be adapted for anything else.


If you are really interested in these orbits and how they are obtained
you should try and find the following paper:

     Hiroshi Yamakawa, Jun'ichiro Kawaguchi, Nobuaki Ishii,
     and Hiroki Matsuo, "A Numerical Study of Gravitational Capture
     Orbit in the Earth-Moon System," AAS-92-186, AAS/AIAA Spaceflight
     Mechanics Meeting, Colorado Springs, Colorado, 1992.

The references included in this paper are quite interesting also and
include several that are specific to the HITEN mission itself.


Re: Waving...

I must say, that the courtesy of a nod or a wave as I meet other bikers while
riding does a lot of good things to my mood... While riding is a lot of fun by
itself, there's something really special about having someone say to you "Hey,
it's a great day for a ride... Isn't it wonderful that we can spend some time
on the road on days like this..." with a gesture.

Was sunny today for the first time in a week, took my bike out for a spin down
to the local salvage yard/bike shop... ran into about 20 other people who were
down there for similar reasons (there's this GREAT stretch of road on the way
down there... no side streets, lotsa leaning bends... ;) ... Went on an
impromptu coffee and bullshit run down to puyallup with a batch of people who
I didn't know, but who were my kinda people nonetheless.

As a fellow commented to me while I was admiring his bike... "Hey, it's not
what you ride, it's that you ride... As long as it has 2 wheels and an engine
it's the same thing..."
--


I'm a system and network admin. One of my users has a Duo 230
([*]specifications below) that has been having slowdown problems.
Leaving the Duo on for several hours causes it to slow down
unacceptably. It can take 10-15 seconds to change applications. During
this time it is completely hung.  If he reboots, the problem goes away
(For a while). It seems the system is getting itself into a wedged
configuration.

He's re-installed System 7.1 and rebuilt the desktop. Neither of these
have helped.

It's possible that it's network-related, he uses Eudora which checks his
email every 10 minutes (over Ethernet). He hasn't checked to see if this
problem occurs while undocked (he's docked most of the time).

Little to no non-Apple inits, I don't want to start yanking the rest
unless I know that might *really* be the problem.

He hasn't tried zapping the PRAM, I have advised him to do that next.

Anyone who has ideas, I'd love to hear about them. I'd call Apple, but
I've found they're best to call during the week (it's Sunday evening).

[*] Powerbook Duo 230  16/120. 12mb RAM card from Tech Works to replace
non-self-refreshing 8mb card. Is using System Enabler 1.0.1. Express
Modem (including latest software). Has been to Apple Dealer for Keyboard
replacement.


Newsgroups: comp.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Logitech 2-button mouse pin-out & BIOS routine availability?
Distribution: world
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

I have a Logitech 2S-2f (or 2f-2S) 2-button mouse that I want to
interface to a serial port of a different (non-ibm-compatible) system.
The mouse is XT/AT/PS2 compatible, with a DB25 connector.  I tried
to reverse engineer the mouse, but it has a micro-controller inside
it.

If I could get the DB25 pin-out, and perhaps a copy of the BIOS routines
that support it, I could map all this into my target system?

Anyone know where I might get the pin-out or the BIOS routines?
Are the routines published someplace convenient?

Thanks!
Silvio


I'm having trouble receiving News at the moment due to an overloaded
News server. I think that I can post out reasonably quickly, though.

I'm in a couple of threads at the moment which may be pending replies.
If anyone wants a reply from me over something I've posted then I
suggest sending an e-mail copy of the point to me so that I can reply by
News.

This is one way to shut me up!!

Cheers,

David.

---
On religion:


	Can you say, "I get more background radiation from living in
Denver or having an office in a limestone building than I do standing
next to a power reactor at full power or standing next to a nuclear
warhead that is armed?"  Look up "shielding" in your dictionary.  You
don't need six feet of lead to make decent shielding; your dead skin
cell layer does an excellent job on alpha particles, and neutrons
are slowed by mere *water*.  What do you think 75% of you is?

	If the militia has as its job the overthrow of an illegal
government, they are indeed useful weapons to the militia.  They
won't be too useful in certain areas, but leveling the Pentagon
would be a "good thing" for said overthrow and it's likely one man
carrying a backpack would stand a better chance than one thousand
armed with Colt Peacemakers.  Don't let self-defense become the
only reason you can have a gun and your sole means of justification.
Myself, I won't overthrow my government until it ceases to be my
legal government, but if I need to I want every weapon I can get.

	One can just as easily say no rifle larger than a .22 is
needed to kill a human being.  They are right.  When that human
being is wearing armor and riding in an APC, things get a bit
different.  I don't see where the weapon is a problem.  It's not.
Only the manner of use is in contention here.

	I guess you either don't have an alarm clock or have never
heard the terms "timer" or "martyr" either.  Don't forget remote
detonation devices.  That CB radio in the pickup next to you can
easily transmit ten miles in decent weather.  That's out of the
blast radius of many portable nuclear devices.

	Just what is it about radioactive decay that has you worried?


Not one, but two:

Obesity in Europe 88,
proceedings of the 1st European Congress on Obesity

Annals of NY Acad. Sci. 1987


These circuits abound in most electronic project books.  If you're more
inclined to buy something, try Radio Shack.  I think they still have a
device that is designed to disconnect an answering machine when an
extension line is lifted.  It has LED indicators also.


How does that saying go: Those who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt
those who are doing it.

Jim


Another word (offense) makes them my pick for last too.
(Well, there's also my policy of never picking a Buck Rodgers' team for last)

The 1961 Angels were  1/2 game out of 7th. The Athletics and
expansion Senators finished tied for last.
The 1962 Colt 45's finshed 8th - ahead of the Cubs (the Mets were last).
The 1969 Royals finshed 4th - ahead of the White Sox (the Pilots in last).
The 1977 Mariners finished 6th - ahead of the Athletics(in last).

Apparently being an expansion team with a poor A's or Chicago
team around is a `good thing'

This may be an appropriate comparison.
The 1929-31 Yankees finshed 2nd, 3rd and 2nd finshing
18, 16 and 13-1/2 games out of first.
In 1933,'34 and '35 they also finished second ( though they were only
7, 7 and 3 games out).
Even great teams can lose - That's why they play the season.
(on the other hand... I'm still picking the Braves to go all the way)


I posted about this a while ago but without code excerpts noone was
able to help me.

The problem is that main_win.win is doing fine, but when I create
detail_win.win, it does not receive it's initial expose events until
main_win.win receives an event. Here are the relevent calls:

main_win.win = XCreateSimpleWindow (mydisplay, DefaultRootWindow(mydisplay),
                myhint.x, myhint.y, myhint.width, myhint.height,
                main_win.line_thick, fg, bg);
XSetStandardProperties(mydisplay, main_win.win, main_win.text,
                main_win.text, None, argv, argc, &myhint);
main_win.gc = XCreateGC (mydisplay, main_win.win, 0, 0);
XMapRaised (mydisplay, detail_win.win);
XMapSubwindows (mydisplay, main_win.win);
The event mask for main_win is:
	PPosition | PSize | StructureNotifyMask | ExposureMask| KeyPressMask |
	EnterWindowMask | LeaveWindowMask;
The flags are
	PPosition | PSize

I then create detail_win.win with the following calls (hints has new values):
detail_win.win = XCreateSimpleWindow (mydisplay, DefaultRootWindow(mydisplay),
                myhint.x, myhint.y, myhint.width, myhint.height,
                detail_win.line_thick, fg, bg);
XSetStandardProperties(mydisplay, main_win.win, detail_win.text,
                detail_win.text, None, argv, argc, &myhint);
detail_win.gc = XCreateGC (mydisplay, detail_win.win, 0, 0);
XMapRaised (mydisplay, detail_win.win);
Event Mask and flags are identical to main_win's flags and event mask.

If anybody has any idea why the initial expose events of detail_win.win
are not received until main_win.win receives an event I'd love to hear
from them. Other that that everything works great so there must be some
detail I'm overseeing.


I have a long sighted eye and a short sighted eye. My right eye tends
to cut out when I look at distant things, my left eye when I am close
up.  I had specs to balance things up a bit but could do without them.
I thought that, one way or another, I would always be able to see
clearly.  Unfortunately middle age is rearing its ugly head and I can
no longer see close up objects clearly.  Maybe it's just that my arms
are getting shorter :-)


If you recall, a subject was raised some weeks ago that touched upon
this.  When someone claimed that guerillas were manifestations of
popular sentiment, the topic arose:"When does a civilian stop
becoming a civilian?".  If he houses and shelters guerillas of
his own free will, aiding them, has he violated his "civilian" status?

But don't you see that the same statement can be made both ways?
If Lebanon was interested in peace then it should accept the word
of Israel that the attacks were the cause for war and disarming the
Hizbollah will remove the cause for its continued occupancy.  Afterall,
Israel has already staged two parts of the withdrawal from areas
it occupied in Lebanon during SLG.

That is not exactly true.  The Hizbollah and their affiliated groups
have made several attempts to infiltrate the border of Israel.

True, but the Syrians did allow (until at least 1984) guerillas to operate
in the areas that were under their control, provided that those guerillas
were attacking Israeli lines.

The problem is that Syria is also not as stable a partner for long term
peace as others in the area might be.


Well, it wasn't that way for Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were
translated directly into heaven.  It's beyond my grasp why some object
that Mary, who was far greater than either Enoch or Elijah, should not
benefit from the same privelege they recieved.  She was after all,
Mother of God, full of grace, and immaculate.

And in St. Germain of Constantinople and St. John of Damascus, and in
St. Andrew of Crete, among others.

And it should be noted that the Monophysite Chruches of Egypt and Syria
also hold to this belief as part of divine revelation, even though they
broke away from the unity of the Chruch in 451 AD by rejecting the
Council of Chalcedon.  It might be argued by some Protestants that the
Catholics and Orthodox made this belief up, but the Monophysites, put a
big hole in that notion, as they also hold the belief, and they split
from the Chruch before the belief was first annunciated in writing (as
far as is known, much has been lost from the time of the Fathers).


Please reply via e-mail since this is job related:

I have a Colorado Jumbo back-up system at one of my places of
employment and it has eaten two tapes by winding the tape off the spool.

Is there an easy fix or is the tape drive fried? Does it simply need
cleaning?

Any and all comments will be appreciated!

Stephen Husak


My Apple 13" RGB monitor has over the past few months gone brighter and
brighter and the colors are not as rich as before. Has anyone out there
encountered a similar problem? Dows anyone happen to know what this problem
may be due to?


If anyone is interested in the history of AMORC, I do think Spencer
Lewis published books about the beginning and his mission. The
Alexandria bookstore (that's the name of the book store operated
by AMORC) should have a selection that should provide the interested
reader more insight).

Cheers,
Kent


<In response to a debate about who has has a better season- Jagr of Francis>

I think Jagr did he probably had a better point per minute ice time- stats
don't exist to properly analyze this and he had a substancially better +/-.

+/- is a useful statistic.  If a player is on the ice when his team scores a
lot of goals and only allows a few goals, he must be doing something right.
It is especially useful to compare between teammates- as they play for the
same team and should have roughly similar +/- ratings if they are equally
good players.  It can be adjusted- with varying degrees of success to compare
between players on different teams.

I agree it would be nice for the NHL to keep more statistics- but how useful
are the ones that you suggest??  Total ice time would be very useful- it is
a missing stat in Jagr vs Francis arguments from before.  Somehow measuring
the quality of ice time as you suggest would be useless.  It would be a
better stat for evaluating coaching- ie are the players given quality ice
time actually their talented ones?  A very good player could be given low
amounts of quality ice time because of team depth or a stupid coach who
doesn't recognize his talent and a very bad player could be given lots of
quality ice time because of a lack of team depth or a stupid coach that
thinks he is an effective player.  This stat would be much more flawed than
+/- and almost no conclusions could be drawn regarding player talent.

+/- is a useful stat.  It is quite useful in evaluating player talent.
You are the one displaying ignorance because of your unwillingness to see
that being on the ice when goals are scored but not when they are allowed
is a very positive thing- and should be evaluated as such.


Take Everything for $210

TurboGrafx-16 Base Unit (works like new) with:
       1 Controller
       AC Adapter
       Antenna hookup
     * Games:
         Kieth Courage
         Victory Run
         Fantasy Zone
         Military Madness
         Battle Royal
         Legendary Axe
         Blazing Lasers
         Bloody Wolf

  --------------------------------------
* Will sell games separatley at $25 each
  --------------------------------------


Tough question -- more dangerous than driving a car, and far more
dangerous if you don't apply a modicum of intelligence to the
activity.  Basically, stupidity will get you hurt/killed a lot
faster on a motorcycle than in a car.  But with care, it is
not unreasonably dangerous.  Also, buying good protective
clothing is helpful, that way if something does go wrong,
you are likely to be less severely injured.

First thing, if possible take a (MSF) driver training course,
this will get you started on the right foot -- they teach
control of the vehicle and safe riding practices.

Second, buy protective gear.  At minimum a good helmet
and a pair of leather gloves are a must.  A good sturdy
piece of footgear is also very helpful, though leather hiking
boots, a pair of old army boots, or something similar works fine
for this purpose as long as you make sure the laces stay
tied.  After those, a leather jacket and leather pants or chaps
are nice as well; but these are also expensive items.  For the
pants, many people consider a good pair of jeans to be reasonable,
preferably recent and of a fairly heavy weight.  Similarly for
a jacket, a good jean jacket is a reasonable compromise, though
more people tend to have leather jackets around than pants.  Another
thing to do is drop in on garage sales looking for a second-hand
leather jacket.  Look for a fairly thick leather in these items.

Third don't do anything stupid -- don't ride after
drinking, even one drink can noticeably affect you judgement
and balance; don't ride in the snow, or when conditions
are such that black ice is likely; be very careful riding
in the rain -- slow way down, take corners gingerly,
brake early and gently;  try not to ride if you are sick,
tired, taking any medication with drowsiness warnings, or
otherwise not in average shape.

With care, you should be ok.

I would suggest mid to late 80's japanese mid-sized standard.
Something in 400-650 cc range would probably be reasonable.  If
you are shorter/lighter than average, you might want to go as
low as a 300-400 cc bike.

Possible models:
The Suzuki GS### series (eg. GS500, GS650, etc.).  These are generally
inline 4 bikes, generally dependable except for a tendency to
weakness in the charging system.  (Stator and/or Regulator/Rectifier
problems.)  My first bike was a (about '82) GS650, it server me well.

The Honda Nighthawk series (this may also be known as the CB### series
I think).  eg. Honda CB450, CB650, etc.  This is another series of
standard motorcycles.  Also fairly dependable.

Kawasaki and Yamaha probably have similar bikes, but I don't know
them as well.

For mid to late '80s models of the above, you should be able to
buy the bike for under $2000, leaving you money for protective
clothing and insurance and licensing costs.


Well, the title says it all...I'm looking to buy cheap used
TG-16 Gmaes which have 2 or more player support (Simultaneous)....

Please email me all offers with a price...


Has anyone done a model of the 52 pin version of the 68hc11?  It doesn't
seem to be too big a job, but if someone else has already done it ...


$6.95 each. add $1.05 for postage (4th class), that makes it $8.
All these 5 discs are still shrink wrapped


: >NEWSPAPER AD CENSORSHIP
: >
: >San Fran. Independent	San Fran. Examiner	San Jose Mercury News
: >1201 Evans Ave		110 5th St.		750 Ridder Park Dr.
: >San Fran., CA 94124	San Fran., CA 94103	San Jose, CA 95190
:
Hmmm, the SJ Merc. carries Targemasters West, National Shooting club,
 Reeds sportshop, Sportsmens supply and Big 5 ads. They all sell guns.
No they don't have any adds like in Shotgun news.  If they won't at least
run the current adds I swear I'll cancel my subscription and end to cash
to the CRPA.


Hi,

I found what I believe is an undocumented feature in my windows directory,
Microsoft Diagnostics, ver 2.00. I am specifically interested in a more
in depth explanation of the legends in the memory mapping report.

Thanks.


[why are atheists atheists/ believes it could be the result of
"brokenness"]

i agree -- if you are going to find out anything from people who don't
share your beliefs, do not attack them or condescend to them and hope
to get a neutral picture of them.  come to them with an open mind.

well, you do believe in something, as i see it, even if it is a sort
of "anti-belief" (no negative connotation meant; i mean simply that
you believe that God _does not_ exist).  christians can also feel that
sense of "difference", however, when they are associated with "those
weird televangelists who always talk about satan".  if you'll excuse
the cliched sound of this, everyone has to deal with his/ her
differences from other people.  i can understand how being an atheist
could be hard for you; being a christian is sometimes hard for me.

you should not have to repress how you feel -- you should be able to
discuss it without fear.  i think there are admirable things to learn
from any belief, which can enrich your own -- by asking myself the
questions that atheists may ask me, i can learn the answers and become
stronger in my faith.  if my faith can't support knowing the answers
to those questions, it is weak and untrue.

in some way the pressures were different, of course, because you
"chose" your beliefs -- or are you saying that they were not your
choice, but born of necessity?  [please, no flames about whether or
not gay people "choose" their lifestyle -- that's elsewhere in this
newsgroup]

i'm not sure i understand this sentence -- could you explain?

[moderator points out that many/ most atheists aren't "hostile", they
just cease believiing in xiantiy/ religion]

ouch, yes.  part of being a christian is accepting _everyone_ with an
open heart -- including people of "our own camp" with whom we
completely disagree.  by the same token, i believe that accusation and
suspicion are not the best way to reach out to those not of our faith,
nor is it effective to try to browbeat people into accepting our
religion.  i have a different idea of mission: be what i am, a
christian who is happy in her faith, and if others see that and want
to know about either the happiness or the religion, i'll share what i
know without pressure and let them make their own decisions.  at some
point you just have to agree to disagree -- acceptance of diversity,
not uniformity, is the way to sow peace....

vera noyes


     :
     :

   |>    XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXxor);
   |>    XSetForeground( myDisplay, gc, drawIndex);
   |>
   |> Then to draw I do:
   |>
   |>    XDrawLine( myDisplay, XtWindow( drawingArea1), gc, x1, y1, x2, y2);
   |>    XFlush( myDisplay);
   |>
   |> And when I'm all done, to return things to normal I do:
   |>
   |>    XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXcopy);
   |>
   |>
   |> What I'd like to happen is for the lines I draw to be the inverse of
   |> whatever I'm drawing over.  Instead what happens is I get white lines.  If
   |> the lines are over a white background - nothing shows up.  If the lines are
   |> over a black area - nothing shows up!  It's very strange.  But the GXxor
   |> function seems right - since if I do a rubber-banding box, it erases and
   |> redraws itself correctly (ie. not disturbing the underlying image).
   |>
   |> Any suggestions what I'm doing wrong?
   |>
   |> david

      Try change the GXxor to GXequiv.  I have to do this for programs that
      are to run on NCD terminals (on Sun terminals I have to change it
      back to GXxor)...

There is a small section in the O'Reilly Xlib books that describes
the right thing to do.  The key is to set the plane_mask in the
GC to the OR of the foreground and background pixel values.


[The following is my comment on an article by Desiree Bradley.  --clh]

Koresh did originally claim to be the Christ, but then backed off and
said he was a prophet.  The latest news at 8:00 CDT from Waco is that
the feds broke through a wall of the compound with a tank.  No news
besides that at this time.


Elias' initial statement certain *is* hot air. But it seems to be
almost standard procedure around here to first throw out an absurb,
overstated image in order to add extra "meaning" to the posting's
*real point*.

However, his second statement *is* quite real. The essential sealing off
of Gaza residents from the possibility of making a living *has happened*.
Certainly, the Israeli had a legitimate worry behind the action they took,
but isn't that action a little draconian?


They are news because they are the exceptions. And the 'Islamic Holocaust'
is much the topic of the day. The historical evidence proves that during
the period of 1914 to 1920, the Armenian Government ordered, incited,
assisted and participated in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people
because of race, religion and national origin. Armenians perpetrated acts
of sabotage, destroyed telephone cables, blew up bridges, blocked passes,
set up ambushes, attacked security stations and small Turkish outposts
behind the Ottoman Army lines on the one hand, and on the other ruthlessly
attacked Turkish and Kurdish villages, slaughtering the Turkish population
indiscriminately, women, children, old and young alike. Innocent
Muslims were one by one cruelly bayonetted to death, or massacred with
axes and swords, or else shut up in mosques or in schools and then burnt
alive as can be seen below.

Widespread Armenian massacres of innocent Muslims took place in regions
of Van, Kars, Sivas, Erzurum, Bitlis, Erzincan, Mus, Diyarbakir and
Maras. The Ottoman Army, while fighting to prevent the Russian invasion,
also had to deal with Armenian genocide squads who cowardly hit from
behind. The Armenian genocide of the Muslims spread to all parts of
Eastern Anatolia. Starting from late 1914, Armenians committed
widespread massacres and genocide in Eastern Anatolia, because the arena
was left to the Armenians. Almost every Turkish town and village from
Erzincan up to Azerbaidjan suffered large scale massacres and genocide
by Armenians and the Turkish genocide has been documented by Armenian,
Russian, American, British, Ottoman, German, Austrian and French
journalists and officers who observed the first genocide of this century
committed by the blood-thirsty Armenian genocide squads.

The Ottoman Army, liberating Trabzon, Bayburt, Erzincan, Erzurum,
Kars and other regions from the Russians, saw that the cities and their
villages had been destroyed and burnt, people slaughtered, massacred.
The massacres conducted by Armenians, which became a black stain for
humanity, shocked and disgusted even the Russian, British, German,
Austrian, French and American authorities.

Almost every Ottoman document is related to Armenian massacres and
cruelties. The inhuman treatment, cruelties, atrocities, genocide by
Armenian genocide squads perpetrated against innocent Moslem Turkish
and Kurdish people, are sufficiently reflected in historical documents.
Even today over seventy-five years later, the terrifying screams of
the victims of these cruelties can be heard.

Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
        "Document No: 76," Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 109, Drawer
        No: 3, File No: 346, Section No: 427(1385), Contents No: 3, 52-53.
        (To Lt. Colonel Seyfi, General Headquarters, Second Section,
        Istanbul - Dr. Stephan Eshnanie)

'Neues Wiener Tagblatt' - Vienna, 'Pester Lloyd' 'Local Anzliger' - Berlin,
'Algemeen Handelsblat' - Amsterdam, 'Vakit' - Istanbul.

"I have been closely following for two weeks the withdrawal of Russians and
 Armenians from Turkish territories through Armenia. Although two months
 have elapsed since the clearing of the territories of Armenian gangs, I
 have been observing the evidence of the cruelties of the Armenians at
 almost every step. All the villages from Trabzon to Erzincan and from
 Erzincan to Erzurum are destroyed. Corpses of Turks brutally and cruelly
 slain are everywhere. According to accounts by those who were able to
 save their lives by escaping to mountains, the first horrible and fearful
 events begun when the Russian forces evacuated the places which were then
 taken over by Armenian gangs. The Russians usually treated the people
 well, but the people feared the intervention of the Armenians. Once these
 places had been taken over by the Armenians, however, the massacres begun.
 They clearly announced their intention of clearing what they called the
 Armenian and Kurdish land from the Turks and thus, solve the nationality
 problem. Today I had the opportunity to meet Austrian and German soldiers
 who had escaped from Russian prison camps and come from Kars and
 Alexander Paul (Gumru-Leninakan)...Russian officers tried to save the
 Turks and there were clashes between Russian officers and Armenian gangs.
 I am now in Erzurum, and what I see is terrible. Almost the whole city is
 destroyed. The smell of the corpses still fills the air. Although there are
 speculations that Armenian gangs murdered Austrian and German prisoners as
 well, I could not get the supporting evidence in this regard, but there is
 proof of murdering of Turkish prisoners of war."

                                                     Dr. Stephan Eshnanie

Serdar Argic