Watch from where?  Two miles away?  Far enough away that whatever
really happenned must be explained through the vengeful filter of
a humiliated agency that said (quote!) "Enough is enough."

The FBI sent letters to Martin Luther King's wife insinuating
that MLK was having an affair!  Again, please tell us exactly
how much you trust our supposedly benevolent government.

I suspect that there were plenty of camerapeople willing to
risk small arms fire to get some good footage.  These people
were told to get the hell out of camera range.  Why?

Drew


Do people expect the Texans congressmen to act as the N.J. Republicans did?
--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Podleski			|     phone: 216-433-4000
NASA Lewis Research Center     	|
Cleveland, Ohio  44135         	|     email: pspod@gonzo.lerc.nasa.gov


Thanks again Andy.

The image is in pub/delta-clipper now. The name has been changed to
"dcx-artists-concept.gif" in the spirit of verboseness. :-)

----Chris

Chris W. Johnson

Internet:   chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu
UUCP:       {husc6|uunet}!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!chrisj
CompuServe: >INTERNET:chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu
AppleLink:  chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu@internet#


    |
    |> Religion (especially Christianity) is nothing more than a DRUG.
    |> Some people use drugs as an escape from reality.  Christians inject
    |> themselves with jeezus and live with that high.
    |
    |Your logic is falty.  If Christianity is a DRUG, and once we die we
    |die, then why would you be reluctant to embrase this drug so that
    |while you are alive you enjoy yourself.
    |

Pardon the harshness that follows...

Once, I told a cradle christian: Please do not take advantage of Jesus
or anybody for the sake of your own (selfish) realization or search
for true faith/religion/belonging/'being in'/fear of hell/vanity/etc.
Instead of serving yourself, _we must be serving Him_.
*Until you have comprehended this truth, you are only doing things for your
own egoism.*

Let us not use Jesus, our religion, the Bible, anything or
anybody as a means of escape or getting ecstatic or high.
We are God's children and we must have a true and authentic
relationship with our Father with obedience, faith, hope and
love and works (the last as the most important).

Beware of our 'materialistic', 'worldly' and 'selfish' motives.
Atheists have this ground against us and I believe they are right about
*some* who call themselves 'christians'.


I saw a previous request for the Rules and Instructions for the USENET
playoff pool but I haven't seen any responce. Does anybody have this info?
If so post away or you could mail it to me. Thanks in advance.


Contents:Problems with table widgets in R5

	The following part of a program (an user interface for a simulation
	system) did work in R4, but refused to in R5. Of cause, the R4-version
	did not know about the xpTableWidgetClass (we used tableWidgetClass 			instead - caught from the net in times of R3) and XpTableChildPosition 			(formerly XtTblPosition).
	Since compiling with R5, the program causes a zero width or height error
	(on sparc-stations). The trouble-shooter is the (re)computation of the
	model_init_table - table widget: though its childs (label and asciiText
	widgets) exist, XtQueryGeometry returns a prefered width and height of 			zero.
	Thus the following asignment cannot perform anything else but set the 			width and height of the newly created widget to zero. No wonder XtPopup 		or XtManage- Child create zero width or height errors (dependent on 			whether width and height of the shell widget are set in the resource 			file or not).

	Question: Does anyone know, why XtQueryGeometry returns so low prefered
			values when working on table widgets or perhaps what
			to do about?

	I'll be happy, if someone is able to help me.
	Germans are requested to answer in german.

	Siegfried Kaiser
	email: kaiser@uniko.uni-koblenz.de

	The part of interest:

	/* Graphischer Neuaufbau des Model-Init-Formulars */
		/* Storing the old width and height of the viewport-	*/
		/* widget, which is the parent of the troubling table	*/
		/* widget, before the viewport widget is destroyed	*/
		/* The destroying of widgets before resizing them is a	*/
		/* relict from R3-age					*/

	if (model_init_popped_up)
		XtUnmapWidget(model_init_form_view);
	XtDestroyWidget(model_init_form_view);

		/* Creating the subtree within the shell, of which the	*/
		/* root is the viewport widget				*/

	n = 0;
	XtSetArg(args[n],XtNfromVert,model_init_title); n++;
	XtSetArg(args[n],XtNfromHoriz,model_init_button_view); n++;
	XtSetArg(args[n],XtNallowVert,True); n++;
	XtSetArg(args[n],XtNforceBars,True); n++;
	model_init_form_view = XtCreateWidget("form_view",viewportWidgetClass,
					      model_init_form,args,n);

	n = 0;
	model_init_table = XtCreateWidget("table",xpTableWidgetClass,
					  model_init_form_view,args,n);

		/* create_form_widget does create and position table	*/
		/* widget's childs. To position them it uses XpTable-	*/
		/* ChildPosition in R5 and XtTblPosition in R4		*/

	create_form_widget(ptr_model_init_obj,model_init_table);

		/* 							*/
		/* The crucial function call:				*/
		/* intended to return the maximum height possible: if	*/
		/* there isn't sufficient space to show the whole table	*/
		/* widget, then the viewport shall grow as large as 	*/
		/* possible, but not beyond the border of screen.	*/
		/* If there is enough space, the window is intended to	*/
		/* shrienk to the smallest possible height.		*/
		/*							*/

	XtQueryGeometry(model_init_table,NULL,&pref);

		/* According to the algorithms idea, the new value of	*/
		/* viewport widget's height is selected. Unfortunately	*/
		/* pref.height = 0 leads to new_height = 0.		*/

	if (form_view_height > pref.height) new_height = pref.height;
	else new_height = form_view_height;

		/* Setting the new values to viewport widgets ancestors	*/

	w = XtNameToWidget(model_init_form,"form_view");
	XtResizeWidget(w,width,new_height,pref.border_width);
	XtResizeWidget(model_init_form_view,width,new_height,
		       pref.border_width);

	if (model_init_popped_up)
	{
		/* In case the shell, which contains model_init_form_-	*/
		/* view and model_init_table, allready exists, is has	*/
		/* to be resized, too.					*/

	 n = 0;
	 XtSetArg(args[n],XtNwidth,&shell_width); n++;
	 XtSetArg(args[n],XtNheight,&shell_height); n++;
	 XtSetArg(args[n],XtNborderWidth,&shell_bw); n++;
	 XtGetValues(model_init_shell,args,n);
	 XtResizeWidget(model_init_shell,shell_width,
			shell_height - height + new_height,shell_bw);
	}; /* end of if */

	n = 0;
	XtSetArg(args[n],XtNwidth,&width); n++;
	XtSetArg(args[n],XtNborderWidth,&bw); n++;
	XtGetValues(model_init_button_view,args,n);
	XtResizeWidget(model_init_button_view,width,new_height,bw);

	XtResizeWidget(vert_bar,sbar_width,1,sbar_bw);

	resize_inits();

		/* If there is the shell's height set within the 	*/
		/* resource file, the program terminates within the	*/
		/* first XtManageChild on its second pass through the	*/
		/* observed function. The first pass succeeds.		*/

	XtManageChild(model_init_form_view);
	XtManageChild(model_init_table);

	if (!model_init_popped_up)
	{
		/* In case the shell isn't popped up it has to be done.	*/
		/* If there is no value set to the shell's height within*/
		/* the resource file, the program terminates here.	*/

	 XtPopup(model_init_shell,XtGrabNone);
	 model_init_pop_flag = True;
	 set_model_init_attributes();
	}; /* end of if */

	get_actual_init(&ptr_actual);
	load_form(ptr_actual);

	/*								*/
	/* If someone suspects the creation of table widget's contents	*/
	/* causes all the trouble, there are the sources of create_form */
	/*								*/

	create_form_widget(ptr,table)
	t_obj              *ptr;
	Widget             table;

		/* ptr is a linear list containing attributes and para-	*/
		/* meters of the model and additionally the correspon-	*/
		/* ding widgets						*/

	{
	 Arg               args[10];
	 int               n,
			   row,
			   col;
	 t_obj             *ptr_obj;
	 t_ident           *ptr_ident;

		/* Initialization of the local variables		*/

	 ptr_obj = ptr;
	 col = 0;
	 row = 0;

	 /* Schleife ueber die Objekte bzw. das Pseudo-Objekt (fuer die 				Parameter) */
		/* loop through the list of objects and pseudo-objects:	*/
		/* every object occuring in the model has zero or more	*/
		/* attributes and some parameters, which can be shared	*/
		/* by several objects. 					*/
		/* Because of locality the attributes of one object are	*/
		/* listed in a second linear list (of type t_ident),	*/
		/* whereas the parameters, which can belong to any ob-	*/
		/* ject are put together in a pseudo-object 		*/
		/* Thus the program loops through the list of objects	*/
		/* and pseudo-objects and for each object through the	*/
		/* list of its attributes resp. parameters.		*/

	 while (ptr_obj != (t_obj*)NULL)
	 {
	 	/* Each object and pseudo-object is represented in a	*/
	 	/* label widget						*/

	  n = 0;
	  XtSetArg(args[n],XtNlabel,ptr_obj->name); n++;
	  ptr_obj->label_w = XtCreateManagedWidget("object",labelWidgetClass,
					   table,args,n);
	  XpTableChildPosition(ptr_obj->label_w,col,row);
	  col++;
	  row++;
	  ptr_ident = ptr_obj->ident;

	  /* Schleife ueber die Objekt-Attribute bzw. Parameter */
	  while (ptr_ident != (t_ident*)NULL)
	  {
	  	/* Each attribute and parameter is represented in a	*/
	  	/* label and has a corresponding asciiText widget, in 	*/
	  	/* which it is to be initialized.			*/

	   n = 0;
	   XtSetArg(args[n],XtNlabel,ptr_ident->name); n++;
	   ptr_ident->label_w = XtCreateManagedWidget("ident",labelWidgetClass,
					      table,args,n);
	   XpTableChildPosition(ptr_ident->label_w,col,row);
	   col++;

	   n = 0;
	   XtSetArg(args[n],XtNlength,ROW_LENGTH); n++;
	   XtSetArg(args[n],XtNstring,ptr_ident->text); n++;
	   XtSetArg(args[n],XtNeditType,XawtextEdit); n++;
	   XtSetArg(args[n],XtNwrap,XawtextWrapWord); n++;
	   XtSetArg(args[n],XtNresize,XawtextResizeHeight); n++;
	   XtSetArg(args[n],XtNuseStringInPlace,True); n++;
	   ptr_ident->text_w = XtCreateManagedWidget("text",
					asciiTextWidgetClass,
					     table,args,n);
	   XpTableChildPosition(ptr_ident->text_w,col,row);
	   col--;
	   row++;
	   get_next_ident(&ptr_ident);
	  }; /* end of while */
	  col--;
	  get_next_obj(&ptr_obj);
	 }; /* end of while */
	} /* end of create_form_widget */


Not to mention that the story was rewritten today. Those two BD's who
"admitted to starting the fire", forget 'em, they don't exist anyone.
Today, "a few saw someone starting a fire" and "our aerial surveillance
showed them starting fires" at this morning's press conference.
Tomorrow, even this excuse may evaporate. A reporter pointed out
that a BD being brought to arraingement shouted that tanks knocking
over lanterns started the fire. Curiouser and curiouser.


: What has this got to do with comp.windows.x?
:

I agree that this is a side track, but it is funny that I skip so many
other articles (threads) but I couldn't resist reading this one.

My beliefs, opinions, and expressions are strictly my own and do not
represent or reflect any official or unofficial policies or attitudes
of any other person or organization....

but.  I have heard that Ford Motor Company has (had) a recruiting bias
toward engineers and away from computer science graduates.  The reasoning
is supposedly to better meet long range personnel requirements.  This is
evidenced by the large number of CS people who are employed via contracts
and are not brought on board except in special circumstances.  This is
a generalization which obviously doesn't always hold true, but there are
statistics.  Furthermore, most "software engineering" at Ford gets done
by electrical engineers.  I know of 2 univerities that have merged the
computer science department and the electrical engineering so that you
can get a computer degree which qualifies you for much more than programming.


Hi Netters,

As promised, here are the summary of opinions on DoubleDisk Gold v.6.0.
People seem to be quite happy with the product. There is no much of
opinion on how good it is compared to the industry leader Stacker 3.0.
(Superstor Pro is not considered since it is slower than Stacker although
just as reliable - BYTE Magazine's conclusion ;-) ), so it's hard to make
any decision to go with Stacker or with DoubleDisk Gold v6.0.
However, it seems that at $39.95, it is quite a buy.

Buddy Christyono
buddy@optics.ece.wisc.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
summary of replies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Buddy,

I do not have DD Gold 6.0 experience.  I just ordered it.  I currently have
DD 2.3 (the last version).  I am very pleased with its performance.

Here is my suggestion...

1)  If you do not have any compression software currently, I would go with
	DOS 6.0's compression.  All the discussion on the net indicates that
	for $50 you get the compression (built into the OS), plus the other
	utilities that you would pay way more than $50 for.  Besides, you
	are now at DOS6.0 (whatever that means...)

2)  If you have DoubleDisk 2.3 already (like I do), the cost is $29.95
	for the upgrade.  After thinking about it and asking the net, I
	decided that I could not go wrong with the update cost!
	I have never suffered from performance of DD.  I have a 12ms HD with
	large SW packages in both compressed and uncompressed format.  It
	works great.  Not delays.  I think the "A" is better than "B"
	arguements are a lot of bunk... they are all comparable in performance.
	I am looking forward to being able to "LOADHIGH" the DD sw.  That
	has been an annoyance.

3)  If you have Stacker, et.al. currently, I would not see it worth the
	effort to upgrade.

Just my $.02 ...

Regards,
Mark Bagdy
----------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy,

I got the same mailer. About 2 weeks ago I got DDG and installed it. The
documentation was, in my opinion, easy to follow. I used the automatic
installation (not the custom) and everything went smoothly.

There were some specific instructions on a readme file for dealing with 386max
& QEMM. DDG has an uninstall (unlike DOS6.0) if you need it. My system has a
203Mb hard drive. before installing DDG I had ~5Mb free. After DDG I had
~197Mb free. Pretty good statistics considering that my 8Mb permanent windows
swap file stayed on the uncompressed portion (along with other drivers and
such).

I have had no problems whatsoever. I have noticed no slowdown (other than it
takes a little longer to boot) either in windows or dos. So far I am a very
happy camper.

-Bruce
--
  Bruce F. Steinke                    | "Never know when you're going to
  bsteinke@dsd.es.com                 |  need a good piece of rope."
  Software Technical Support Engineer |               Sam Gamgee
  Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.   |      <My mail, My Opinions>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

	I have been using DoubleDisk Gold for a little more than a month on
a 486DX 33Mhz, 120MB Seagate drive, running DOS & Windows in 386 enhanced
mode.
	I ran some tests and concluded that the speed of a DoubleDisk drive
with a drive read cache is about equal to the bare drive without a cache.
	I have no complaints about reliability.  It was very easy to install.
The only problem I had was with Castle Wolfenstein 3-D.  I assumed the game
was trying to bypass DOS disk access and moved the game to the non-compressed
region of the disk.  Since then the game has never given me a problem.
There was never any damage to the DoubleDisk drive.
	Compression performance for the whole disk has held steady
around 1.8:1.  This is lower than expected but about 20% (size) of my files
are compressed image files and some large zip files.

If you have any more specific questions let me know.
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I bought it an have been happy with it.  I use it on both MFM and IDE 40
MB drives.  I was using DoubleDisk before Gold came out.  That is the
same product MSDOS 6.0 is shipping with.  No problems with either
product.


Panasonic KX-T3000H, Combo black cordless & speaker phone all in one.
 new- $160, now- $100 + shipping OBO.

Curtis Mathes VHS VCR Remote included and it works with universal remotes.
 Works great but I replaced it with a Stereo VCR.
 paid $300 years ago, will sell for $125 delivered OBO.

Radio Shack stereo amp.  2 inputs, tone, and left and right volume.  Speakers
 not included.  $20 plus shipping.

If you are interested in either of the above mail me at
 radley@gibbs.oit.unc.edu or call me, Keith, at 919-968-7779.

PS- I made a type on my email address the first posting.  It is now correct.


That would be a very expensive toxin indeed!


Has anyone written a device driver to use the Ascension bird with XWindows ?

      __
     (_   / /  o_   o  o |_
     __)/(_( __) (_(_ /_)| )_


Group A					Group B
~~~~~~~					~~~~~~~

Cardiff Devils  7-3  Bracknell Bees	Nottingham Panthers  8-3  Billingham
Humberside      7-7  Whitley Warriors	Murrayfield Racers  11-2  Fife Flyers
Whitley Bay     6-9  Cardiff Devils     Billingham Bombers   6-8  Murrayfield
Humberside      8-5  Bracknell Bees	Nottingham Panthers 11-5  Fife Flyers
Cardiff Devils 10-4  Humberside		Murrayfield Racers   6-4  Nottingham
Bracknell Bees  4-9  Whitley Bay	Fife Flyers          2-5  Billingham
Bracknell Bees  3-8  Cardiff Devils	Billingham Bombers   2-8  Nottingham
Whitley Bay     5-7  Humberside		Fife Flyers          3-12 Murrayfield

		P W D L  F  A  P			     P W D L  F  A  P
Cardiff Devils  4 4 0 0 34 16  8*	Murrayfield Racers   4 4 0 0 37 15  8*
Humberside      4 2 1 1 26 27  5	Nottingham Panthers  4 3 0 1 31 16  6*
Whitley Bay     4 1 1 2 27 27  3	Billingham Bombers   4 1 0 3 16 26  2
Bracknell Bees  4 0 0 4 15 32  0	Fife Flyers	     4 0 0 4 12 39  0

* indicates qualified for Championship Finals

Relegation/Promotion A			Relegation/Promotion B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~			~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Basingstoke    10-4  Swindon Wildcats   Sheffield Steelers  12-8  Peterborough
Durham Wasps   13-5  Romford Raiders	Slough Jets          1-9  MK Kings
Basingstoke     6-0  Durham Wasps	Sheffield Steelers   9-4  Milton Keynes
Swindon         8-5  Romford Raiders    Milton Keynes Kings  4-6  Peterborough
Durham Wasps   17-2  Swindon Wildcats	Slough Jets          2-12 Sheffield
Romford         4-10 Basingstoke 	Peterborough        10-2  Slough Jets
Romford        *8-3* Durham Wasps	Peterborough	     8-5  Sheffield
Swindon         7-11 Basingstoke        Milton Keynes Kings 10-4  Slough Jets

		P W D L  F  A  P			     P W D L  F  A  P
Basingstoke     4 4 0 0 37 15  8	Sheffield Steelers   4 3 0 0 38 22  6
Durham Wasps    4 2 0 2 33 21  4	Peterborough         4 3 0 1 32 23  6
Swindon         4 1 0 3 21 43  2	Milton Keynes Kings  4 2 0 2 27 20  4
Romford Raiders 4 1 0 3 22 34  2	Slough Jets	     4 0 0 4  9 41  0


OK, I'll join in the fun and give my playoff predictions:

1st round:
----------

PITT vs NYI:  PITT in 4.
WASH vs NJD:  WASH in 6.

BOS  vs BUF:  BOS  in 5.
QUE  vs MON:  MON  in 7.

CHI  vs STL:  CHI in 4.
DET  vs TOR:  DET in 6.

VAN  vs WIN:  WIN in 6.
CAL  vs  LA:  CAL in 5.

2nd round:
----------

PITT vs WASH: PITT in 4.
BOS  vs MON:  BOS  in 6.

CHI  vs DET:  CHI  in 7.
WIN  vs CAL:  CAL  in 5.

3rd round:
----------

PITT vs BOS:  PITT in 5.
CHI  vs CAL:  CHI  in 5.

Finals:
------

PITT vs CHI: PITT in 5.


   On Palm Sunday at our parish, we were "invited" to take the role of
Jesus in the Passion.  I declined to participate.  Last year at the
liturgy meeting I pointed out how we crucify Christ by our sins, so
therefore it is appropriate that we retain the role of the crowd, but
to no avail.

   As a member of a liturgy committee, I can tell you that the problem
is certain people dominating, who want to try out all kinds of
innovations.  The priests don't seem even to _want_ to make any
decisions of their own in many cases.  I guess it's easier to "try
something new" than it is to refuse to allow it.

   At our parish on Holy Thursday, instead of the priests washing feet
("Who wants to get around people's feet," according to one of our
priests) the congregation was "invited" to come up and help wash one
another's hands.

   The symbolism of this action distressed me, and again I refused to
participate.  I thought that if we were to have to come up with
rubrics for this liturgical action (i.e. "Body of Christ" -- "Amen"
for receiving Communion), that they could be "I am not responsible for
the blood of this man."

   Also for part of the Eucharistic Prayer ("Blessed are You, God of
all creation...") was substituted some text read by a lay couple.  The
priest certainly should not have given this part of the Mass over to
others, and I was so disturbed that I declined to receive Communion
that night (we aren't required to anyway -- I instead offered up
prayers for our priests and parish).

   The quality of the Mass has not changed.  Again, if it were to be
celebrated according to the rubrics set down by the Church, it would
still be "liturgically" beautiful.  The problem comes about from
people trying to be "creative" who are not.

   I think the answer to your question on participation could be that
given by Father Peter Stravinskas in answer to the question posed by
the title of Thomas Day's _Why Catholics Can't Sing_.  "They don't
want to" because of all this nonsense.

   By the way, for any non-Catholics reading this, the problem does
not reflect bad liturgy by the Catholic Church, but by those who are
disobedient to the Church in changing it on their own "authority."


For sale in the Baltimore - DC Area

One Mac 2X 8/80 with Radius 24 Bit Color Dual Page display and adapter
Microtek 300Z color scanner
QMS ColorScript 10 Color Postscript Printer
2400 Baud Modem
Dyanfile with 360 K and 1.2Meg Floppies
30 Software packages including Pagemaker, Quark Express, Style, Photoshop, etc
$7000 OBO

One Compaq LTE 286 with internal modem and 1.5 Meg ram 20 Hard drive
$750 OBO

One Compaq SLT 286 with 5 Meg ram and 40 Meg Hard drive
$950 OBO

One Compaq 386N motherboard only Make an offer
this has just returned from Compaq Service.

Six Muxes with 9600 Baud modems built in.  Make an offer

20 S-100 CPU from a Multi-user TurboDos system Offer


I was *hoping* somebody would mention clutch.  Clutch?  Baerga?  The
two words simply do not go together.  With runners in scoring
position, Baerga batted .308/.366/.418 last year.  This doesn't quite
*suck*, but most batters hit *better* in this situation.

Alomar?  He hit .354/.439/.517 with runners in scoring position!

The difference?  Alomar had 68 RBIs in 147 such AB.  Baerga had 81
RBIs in 182 such AB.  Baerga got 25% more chances, yet succeeded only
20% more times.

Frankly, I don't believe in clutch.  But if I did, my vote would
go to Alomar for MVP (let alone "best 2B in the AL").


IK> Nntp-Posting-Host: elm

IK> I know it sounds stupid, but....

IK> Does anyone know how to control individual mouse buttons.
IK> I am writing an application, which currently makes use of
IK> ButtonPressMask, however this is invoked by the pressing
IK> of any mouse button. I want to be able to restrict this
IK> to one of the 3 buttons. I tried Button1PressMask, but
IK> just get undefined errors. I know it can be done, and I
IK> am pretty sure theres an easy answer to it, but I just don't know
IK> what it is.
IK> "time is of the essence ..."

There is no event mask for a particular mouse button press. However in your
event handler you can use the event structure passed in and query it to find
which button was pressed i.e.

void
SomeEventHandler(Widget w, XtPointer data, XEvent *event)
{
    /* Catch the button 1 (usually left button) */
    if ( event->xbutton.button == Button1 ) {
        /* do some action */
    } else {
        /* do nothing and exit from function */
    }
}


I have a new MR535 Mitsubishi hard drive (RLL or MFM) that has been
in storage and will not format.  I suspected that the switch settings
may have been moved in the movement of the drive from one place to
another.  Does anyone have the switch settings for this drive.  It has
J1 SW1 with 6 switches and SW2 has 8 switches.  SW2 is the one that
selects the drive number.  If you have info on this drive, or know
a number I can call to configure it, please, please let me know by
email.  It has 977 cyl 5 heads and I think is type 17.

Thanks in advance!

Chuck Browning


--------- Forwarding begins here ---------

Date: Wed,  7 Apr 1993 15:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Women's Center <women+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/women/dlists/happyhour-announce.dl@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: PROGRESSIVES HAPPY HOUR

Enjoy good food and interesting company at the Progressives Happy Hour,
Thursday 8 April, starting at 5:30pm at the Women's Center (located next
to the laundromat in the Margaret Morrison Plaza).  Kosher for Passover
food will be served.  All are welcome.

(Good things to drink will be there, but paper cups won't.  Please  be
progressive and bring a cup or mug with you.)

Co-sponsored by the Student Government President and funded by the
student activites fee.


How would you deal with Arabs who ALWAYS threaten to drive you into the sea or
burn half your conuntry?  Would you talk nicely?  Would you say please?  You
wouldn't.  The language of the middle east is power and force.  Sorry - that
is the way it is now.  If you aren't strong, you go down.  Israel has to talk
and act tough.  Notice, Israel talks and acts tough in battle, but is willing
to talk peace.

True - and they have brainwashed their people into thinking Jews are some sort
of monsters.  Arab non-recognition of Israel and support of war and terror
is also an important factor, wouldn't you say?

What do you want Israel to do?  They are negotating? I'm sick of people calling
for Israel to withdraw from the territories now.  That's not realistic, don't
you realize that?  A solution must be negotiated.  It is on the table.  Have
patience.


Why not? Horner played 130 games in 1985 and hit 27 HR.
Murphy played 162 and hit 37.
In 1986 Horner hit 27 in 141 games and Murphy hit 29 in 160 games.
(and the Braves lost 96 and 89 games).


I'm plannig to trade my Sentra SE-R in with a NX2000.  My car has 11,500
miles on it and is a '92 model.  The NX2000 the dealer is selling is a '91
model with 23,000miles on it.  It has a T-Bar Roof, a/c, and an airbag,
which my Sentra does not have.  They are asking for $1500.  Is that a fair
deal?  The only thing I noticed about the NX2000 is that the engine did not
seem to have as much torque as my Sentra which has the same identical
engine.  I presume that the last lady owner did not really push the engine
to it's limits occassionaly while I did that on mine, thuis the NX2000's
engine is a little "tight."  So, if I buy the NX2000 and "excercise" it
well, should that slight power problem go away?  Any advice on this will be
much appreciated.  Thanks.  Please reply via e-mail if possible.
--
A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.


You somehow missed Nabil's comments, even though you included it in
your followup:

  >The number which could have arrived to the Holy Lands must have been
  >substantially less ude to the harsh desert and the killings between the
  >Jewish tribes on the way..

I am not aware of "killings between Jewish tribes" in the desert.

The point of "typical thinking" here is that while Arabs STILL TODAY
act in the manner you describe, like "any nomadic people occupying a
land", killing and plundering each other with regularity, others have
somehow progressed over time.  It is not surprising then that Arabs
often accuse others (infidels) of things that they are quite familiar
with: civil rights violations, religious discrimination, ethnic
cleansing, land theft, torture and murder.  It is precisely this
mechanism at work that leads people to say that Jewish tribes were
killing each other in the desert, even without support for such a
ludicrous suggestion.


If babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn't the Bible
ever say so.  It never comes right and says "Only people that know
right from wrong or who are taught can be baptised."
        What Christ did say was :

        "I solemly assure you, NO ONE can enter God's kingdom without
         being born of water and Spirit ... Do not be surprised that I
         tell you you must ALL be begotten from above."

Could this be because everyone is born with original sin?


_Cycle World_ puts one out, but I'm sure it's not very objective.  Try talking
with dealers and the people that hang out there, as well as us.  We love to
give advice.

Most of the bigger banks have a blue book which includes motos -- ask for the
one with RVs in it.

Couldn't help you here.

You're reading it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Inguiry by address:er1@eridan.chuvashia.su


...
[shameless woofing deleted]

On behalf of the rest of us Tiger fans out here, I appoligize for this
shameless woofing.  We try to keep it to a minimum, but we did WIN A GAME
the other day, so sometimes it's hard to control.  see: Phillies Fans


Is there anyone out there in NetLand that has/has had one of these?

Can someone give me a non-Consumer Reports review (or point me to a source) ???

Thanks
Scott

-----------------------
sdexter@ucrengr.ucr.edu
	Computer Science Undergraduate,
	University of California, Riverside
	Internet :  138.23.166.21

sdexter@technet1.shl.com
  	 Facilities Engineer,
	 SHL SystemHouse, Inc. ,Technology Network
         Internet : 192.75.61.2


I tried to install a foreign language Windows application
that required a file named WINNLS.DLL.  I checked all of my
WIndows 3.1 installation disks for this file, but could not
find it.  Does anybody have any idea what this file is for and
where one could get it from?


This is a difficult problem for which there is no obviously good
solution.  One approach is simply to try and move political opinion
and hope a new more libertarian consensus lasts for a while.  Another
approach is to try and amend the constitution.  The original
constitution restrained the U.S. government from economic intervention
for 100 to 150 years, depending on just how one wants to count it.
The First Amendment, though weakened in many ways, still restrains
government (particularly state and local), even though on many
particular issues the majority is in favor of censorship.  I think
libertarians would be happy with another 100 years of restraint via
an amendment or two (not that I think that's likely to happen).

Not necessarily Mr. Hendricks, but other posters seem to see this as
a problem with libertarianism, that it cannot be stable.  That might
be true, but it is not an objection to libertarianism per se.  If
a libertarian political consensus forms for a decade or two and then
falls apart again, we would just be back where we are now.  This is
unlike the case for socialism where a socialist consensus that held
for a while and then fell apart would not leave us where we are now,
but instead with lots of bureaucracy that would be hard to get rid of,
if not tyranny as the end condition of a strong socialist consensus.


     ah c'mon, give the guy three days and see what comes up.

     LEO


Well, if you want to stick the nose of your car up the ass of a 50 foot semi, I
suppose it's your neck, however, I'm not going to let you kill me in the bargain.
If you get frustrated by somebody delaying your inevitable death due to less that
wise driving practices, then TOUGH!!!

"Thank God for the Fourth of July, for it yearly rids the earth of a considerable
load of fools"


:Judge: "I grant you immunity from whatever may be learned from the key
:	itself"
:You:    "The keyphrase is: "I confess to deliberately evading copyright;
:	the file encoded with this keyphrase contains illegal scans of
:        copyrighted Peanuts strips.""
:Judge and CP: "Oh."
:     How will they get you now? I'm not saying that they won't, or
:can't (or even that they shouldn't :-), but what legal mechanism will
:they use? Should we be crossposting this to misc.legal?

Hm, could another court try you via a bypass of the double jeopardy amendment
like they are doing in the LAPD trial?  Ie your judge is a state judge, and
then a federal judge retries you under the justification that its not the
same trail.


this borders on blasphemy.


IDE also uses DMA techniques.  I believe floppy controller also uses DMA,
and most A/D boards also use DMA.  DMA is no big deal, and has nothing to
do directly with SCSI.

You can thank your software for that.  If DOS had a few more brains, it
could format floppies etc. while you were doing something else.  The
hardware will support it, but DOS (at least) won't.  Again, this has
nothing to do with SCSI.

And if you stick with DOS you'll wonder why you can't multitask.


Actually I don't think there is any conflict if we really understand
what these passages say.  First, what is faith?  If you study the
meaning of the Greek and Hebrew words so translated I think you will
come to the conclusion that the word means a *lot* more than mere
belief.  Faith means both trust and action.  If you do not put your
belief into action it simply cannot qualify as faith.  I think this
is what James means when he says that "faith without works is dead"
and, "I will show you my faith by my works."  Remember James was
writing to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad."  This
probably means he was writing to those who would hear the gospel much
later and wouldn't understand the meaning of the original Greek.
(Indeed I suspect James was writing to us, today, among others he
intended to reach.)  Paul, on the other hand wrote mostly to the
people of the Roman empire who generally understood the meaning of
the Greek.

Another key to why there is no conflict is to look at Paul's
statements in their context.  I think you will find that when Paul
contrasts faith and works it is in the context of comparing the
gospel with the Law, meaning the Law of Moses.  This was the great
burden of Paul's life.  As the apostle to the Gentiles he would go
convert a bunch of people, then the "Judizers" would come along and
try to convince them that they also had to obey the Law of Moses (cf
Acts chapter 15).  In this context Paul condemns the idea of being
saved by the works of the Law, saying that we are saved by the blood
of Jesus and our faith in him.  I believe that a better translation
for today would be that we are saved by *faithfulness*.  I think
"faithfulness" today has a meaning closer to what the original
writers intended.

I think you misunderstand Romans.  What Paul is really saying is
that God prefers a faithful Gentile who does not "keep kosher" to a
kosher Jew who fails to stay faithful in the more important matters
of following the Lord and having charity toward his fellows.

In the sense of faith described above, you cannot have real faith and
be lukewarm.  If you know God but are lukewarm (unfaithful), you are
worse off than the person who never heard of Him.  Remember, Jesus in
the parable of the pearl of great price (Mat 13:45-46) and again in
the one on the treasure hidden in the field (Mat 13:44) indicates that
the price of the Kingdom of God is *all* we have.

[I agree with you in general, including the fact that "pistis" has
some of the force of "faithful".  However if you take that too far,
you can end up with something that Paul definitely would not have
intended.  Being faithful means following God in all things.  To say
that we are saved by being faithful is very close to saying that we
are saved by commiting no sins.  I assume that's not what you meant.

I have almost given up on finding a specific verbal formula that
completely captures this.  However I think Paul is describing what I'd
call a basic orientation, including aspects such as trust and
commitment.  Jesus speaks of it as rebirth, which implies a basic
change.  We may still do things that are sinful, and may fail to show
the new life in Christ in many situations where we should.  But in any
Christian there had better be the basic change in orientation that
Jesus calls being born again.


This is to let you know that the fourth issue of the Copt-Net Newsletter
has been issued. The highlights of this issue include:

 1. Easter Greating: Christ is risen; Truly he is risen!
 2. The Holy Family in Egypt (part 1)
 3. Anba Abraam, the Friend of the Poor (part 4)
 4. A review of the Coptic Encyclopedia
 5. A new Dictionary of the Coptic Language

This Newsletter has been prepared by  members  of  Copt-Net,  a  forum
where news, activities, and services of  the  Coptic Orthodox Churches
and  Coptic communities outside Egypt are coordinated  and  exchanged.
If you want your name to be included in the mailing  list, or have any
questions please contact Nabil Ayoub at <ayoub@erctitan.me.wisc.edu>.


I'm looking for a replacement radio/tape player for a 1984
Toyota Tercel.  Standard off-the-shelf unit is fine, but
every place I've gone to (Service Merchandise, etc.) doesn't
have my car in its model application book.  I want to just
take out the old radio, and slide in the new, with minimal time
spent hooking it up and adjusting the dashboard.

If you have put in a new unit in a similar car, I'd like to hear
what brand,  how easy it was to do the change, and any other
relevant information.

Please answer via E-mail.
Thanks,  Tom Ostrand


And then cs1442aq@news.uta.edu (cs1442aq) quoth:

That's too bad.  I really had hoped Nolan could end his career with a great
year.  I suppose there is still hope.


Robert,

You have probably solved your problem by now.  Anyway, if you can get your
hands on QA Plus (version 4.21, maybe others as well), it will let you write
the COMPAQ CMOS settings.  I know because I just did it.

I was just about to search for such a diagnostic disk when my brother-in-law
fixed an old DESKPRO with it.  You might try the simtel mirror FTP sites.


"Put not your trust in princes" is the Biblical proverb.  The modern
analog is governments.  At the time of the founding of the US, the
idea that citizens had rights above those of the government was not
that common, but was explicit in the writings of the founders.  To a
considerable extent, Englishmen also had those rights.

Yes, times change, and technology changes.  The possibility of
a few governments enserfing all of mankind was not possible until
quite recently.  In the feudal system, the lord was almost as
restricted as the serfs, so having the people enserf themselves
does not make anything better; most feudal lords, and even most
slaveowners, did not mistreat those under them.

Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are under real attack NOW.


Yeah, but what's your point?  You still need the offense to score more runs
than you allow, too.

The Braves do have a fine pitching staff.  But that's still only half the
game.


I love the FAQ.

The comment about contact lenses not being an option for any remaining
correction after RK and possibly after PRK is interresting.  Why is
this?  Does anyone know for sure whether this applies to PRK as well?

Also, why is it possible to get a correction in PRK with involvement of
only about 5% of the corneal depth, while RK is done to a depth of up to
95%?  Why such a difference?  I thought the proceedures were simmilar
with the exception of a laser being the cutting tool in PRK.  I must not
be understanding all of the differences.

In the FAQ, the vision was considered less clear after the surgery than
with glasses alone.  If this is completly attributable to the
intentional slight undercorrection, then it can be compensated for when
necessary with glasses (or contacts, if they CAN be worn afterall!).  It
is important to know if that is not the case, however, and some other
consequence of the surgery would often interfere with clear vision.  The
first thing that came to my mind was a fogging of the lense, which
glasses couldn't help.

would not help.


Having had limited tinea pedis for more than 30 years, and finding
it resistant to ALL creams and powders I have tried, I wonder why
dermatologists do not use lasers to destroy the fungus. It would
seem likely to be effective and inexpensive. Are there good reasons
for not using lasers?
I was told that dermatology had not yet reached the laser age.

John McKay
vax2.concordia.ca


Yes, a point well-taken ... however, even in areas that finally got
some games, there's something nagging in the back of your skull when
the network that has the national rights in its pocket says on its
sports news, "There's an awesome overtime going on in Quebec City,
and we'll *try* to get you an update through the show ..." when you
know that it's on a satellite's feedhorn somewhere up there ...

From today's Times, ABC got great ratings in Chicago and St. Louis (a
4.2), and the Kings-Flames got a 2.9 on the West Coast, but only a 2.2
in metro New York (i.e., the Devils squandered their newfound support
from a year ago when they played the Rangers )-;).  In comparison,
Seniors Golf did better ...

I fear that the overall national numbers will not be so great ...
I can't tell if ABC did any advance marketing or not, 'cos I don't
watch much TV ... the NHL should have made sure that it was solid
on cable before going on the air.  Even ESPN could've sold second
rights to third party systems (i.e., non-SportsChannel) since they
are not making any extra money by sitting on the games ... hockey
fans will not necessarily be watching pre-season beach volleyball
if playoffs games aren't being shown somewhere ...

gld


Ignorance is STRENGTH!


Very likely possible.  Reminds me of the movie "The Rapture".


I have and use xrecplay for X11R5.  Does one exist for X11R4???

I have tried to contact one of the developers, Eric Swildens, at
ess@hal.com but he is no longer there and has no forwarding email
address.  Archie is no help either.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks,


You are correct!  The motherboard manufacturer where I usually buy boards says
that they will have this problem fixed in about two weeks...


Try lyman.pppl.gov -- /pub/8051


	Uh oh...
	Umm, there are a number of copy protection schemes.  Some involve
modifying the physical media, and some involve encryption schemes, &c.
	All of the ones that have existed over the course of computing have
been successful for a time.  I recall, however, near monthly releases of new
ways to "crack" the copy protection scheme of the latest releases.  The fact
is, none of them are completely secure, or anywhere near it.  Some are more or
less difficult to crack, and some have already been cracked.
	I guess what I am saying is that your question is difficult, if not
impossible, to answer.  What exactly do you want to know?  Do you need a good
one for a project you are working on?  How secure must it be?  Are you trying
to crack one that someone else has used?  I can probably make suggestions,
assuming the activity is strictly legal.  (In general, it is a BAD idea,
legally, to tamper with copy protection.  It can also lead to corruption of
files which you necessarily do not have back ups of (being as they are copy
protected,) which can be devestating.)  Do you have absolutely no ideas for
practical applications, and are merely curious?
	Please clear up those questions, and I'll try to help as much as I
can.

	Incidentally, the "Uh oh..." at the top is indicative of the dread
anyone who has watched their friends hacking equipment be carted off feels
when they are asked how to hack.  The area you are broaching is wrought with
dangers, many of which include breaking the law, or at least addressing it
(from one side or the other.)


Panasonic KX-T3000H, Combo black cordless & speaker phone all in one.
 new- $160, now- $100 + shipping OBO.

Curtis Mathes VHS VCR Remote included and it works with universal remotes.
 Works great but I replaced it with a Stereo VCR.
 paid $300 years ago, will sell for $125 delivered OBO.

Radio Shack stereo amp.  2 inputs, tone, and left and right volume.  Speakers
 not included.  $20 plus shipping.

If you are interested in either of the above mail me at
 radley@gibbs.out.unc.edu.


I'd love to see a Shea Stadium gif.

                                    -Sean


You are conveniently ommitting the fact that the Arab governments told the
Arab citizens of Israel to leave Israel, join with the Arab armies so that
after what they felt like an assured victory occured, these Arabs could
return to their former homes, reclaim them as well as anything else they
wanted that belonged to Jews.  When the Arabs lost, Israel was left with
a bunch of people who has just tried to kill them who now wanted back
into the country as citizens.  What would you have done?  Let them in so
they could kill Jews?  Israel sees those Arabs who stayed as citizens
because they were loyal to Israel during the war and didn't leave.  Of
course some Arabs could have left to avoid the fighting but distinguishing
between the two is impossible.  Therefore a decision was made based on
secuturity of the country.

No kibbutz that I have ever visited has any "employees" unless they had to
hire some people for the restaurants, hotels etc if there weren't enough
people ON the kibbutz to do them.  In such cases, they are paid properly.
If a kibbutz turns away an Arab, 9I have never seen or heard of this) but it
reflects only on the membership comittee of that kibbutz, not the whole
kibbutz movement.

This just shows how ignorant you are of Israeli politics.  Although the
major parties in Israel aren't religious (however not totally secular),
due to the format of the government (coalition) the religious parties have
always had a lot of pull since they were needed to form a majority coalition.
In fact, from what I heard the present government is the least influenced
by the religious parties in the existance of Israel.  Israel CANNOT be
called a secular state.  For instace, Haifa is the only city in the country
(except for maybe some Arab cities) where buses run on the Jewish Sabbath.
There are many other examples of religion in Israel.  Marriages in Israel
are NOT contolled by the state, but by Rabbis and Priests.  Obviously your
disbelief of this fact sheds some light of your ignorance of the country
you claim to know so much about.

  Steve
--


      What does anyone think that Judge Wopner would do if Karadzic was
      on trial before him?  (Nevah happen, but just a thought...)


: Speaking of great players, man-oh-man can Quebec skate.  I haven't seen a
: team so potent on the rush in a long time.  Watching them break out of their
: zone, especially Sundin, is a treat to watch.  They remind me of the Red
: Army.

: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (pissed-off Habs fan)

Yeah, the Nords look like they're going to be good...but (excuse the
bias) have you ever watched the Pens on a rush?...Don't answer: everyone
has seen this footage.  Near the end of the season when the Pens played
the Nords it was like watching a (younger) double of the Pens.  ...The
Nords looked good right up to the point when they lost.
--
Ravi Shah
shah+@pitt.edu


A few days ago I posted a question about trying to call a function which set
up an X app multiple times.  It was pointed out that XtAppInitialize() should
never be called more than once.  This helped.  However, I am still having
some problems.  Below is a new little test program that more closely models
my real program.  In the actual program, I am writing a library, callable
from any other program.  This means that the first time the lib function is
called, it must initialize things, and after that, it should just use the
old stuff (still around because of static variables).  In the demo below,
main() represents the main program calling my library and doit() represents
the interface to the library function.

#include <X11/Xlib.h>
#include <Xm/Xm.h>
#include <Xm/PushB.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

void bla(XtAppContext app, Widget top)
{
        Widget topone = top;		// in real prog, these are member vars
        XtAppContext theapp = app;	// of a class
        int junk = 0;
        Display *dis = XtOpenDisplay(theapp, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, 0, &junk,
                                        NULL);

        Widget box = XtVaCreateManagedWidget("blaaa", xmPushButtonWidgetClass,
                        topone,
                        XmNheight, 50,
                        XmNwidth, 50,
                        NULL);

        XtRealizeWidget(topone);
        for (int i=0;i<=25;i++)	// real prog returns when "Exit" button clicked
        {
                XEvent event;
                XtAppNextEvent(theapp, &event);
                XtDispatchEvent(&event);
        }
        XtDestroyWidget(box);
        XtCloseDisplay(dis);
}

// SetItUp - should be called once only
void SetItUp(XtAppContext *app, Widget *top)
{
        int junk = 0;
        (*top)=XtAppInitialize (app, "test", NULL, 0, &junk, NULL,
                NULL, NULL, 0);
}

// doit - some library function callable from the outside
void doit()
{
        static XtAppContext app;	// use these every time called
        static Widget top;

        static int setup = 0;

        if (!setup)
        {
                SetItUp(&app, &top);
                setup = 1;
        }
        bla(app, top);
}

// main - program which links to my library
main()
{
        for (int i=0;i<=20;i++)
        {
                doit();
                printf("sleeping...\n");//widget still on screen at this point
                sleep(5);
        }
}

The problem is that the widget does not go away until the new one is created.
(It is still on the screen -- unusuable -- during the "sleep" in the main prog,
despite the XtDestroyWidget call).

Anyone see something I'm missing?

Thanks very much.

(Please respond via email)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder


Mike Terry asks:

No Mike.  It is imposible due to the shaft effect.  The centripital effects
of the rotating shaft counteract any tendency for the front wheel to lift
off the ground.


The problem is that the pins in the ADB connector
are close to each other, and if you happen to bend the
cable a little while inserting it, you short the ADB
port. If you take it to an Apple Repair Centre, that
means a new motherboard (though a component replace IS
physically possible)

Same goes for serial ports (LocalTalk as well)

Cheers,

					/ h+
--
 -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --


[deleted]

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post, but DRAM *does not* have to
be refreshed on *each access cycle*.  So cycle time does *not* have to be
twice the access time *because of refresh phase*.

The access time usually means the delay time from falling edge of raw
address strobe (RAS) to data bus driven.

DRAM access cycle timing chart can be roughly shown as following (some
signals are intentionally omitted);

ADDR --<RA><CA>-------<RA><CA>--------- RA=Raw Address, CA=Column Address
RAS  ~~~~\________/~~~~~\________/~~~~~		~=High, _=Low, -=Floating
CAS  ~~~~~~~\_______/~~~~~~\_______/~~~		<..>=driven either H or L
DATA ---------<VALID>--------<VALID>---
         |-------+------|
         |-+--|  |
           |     +----------- cycle time
           +---- access time (or RAS access time)

Yes, the cycle time is more than twice as the access time but *not*
because of the refresh phase.  The refresh can be done either as a
trailing phase of normal access cycle or as an individual cycle.

[other stuff deleted]

Ken Nakata


The Angels won their home opener against the Brewers today before 33,000+
at Anaheim Stadium, 3-1 on a 3-hitter by Mark Langston.  J.T. Snow and
Gary Discarcina hit home runs for the Angels.


Hello,

  I'm investigating the purchase of an Object Oriented Application Framework.  I have
come across a few that look good:

  Zapp 1.1 from Inmark
  Zinc 3.5 from Zinc software
  C++/Views from Liant
  Win++ from Blaise

Some considerations I'm using:

  Being new to Windows programming (I'm from the UNIX/X world), the quality and
intuitivness of the abstraction that these class libraries provide is very
important.  However, since I'm not adverse to learning the internals of Windows
programming, the new programming methodology should be closely aligned with
the native one.  I don't believe arbitrary levels of abstraction, just for the
sake of changing the API, are valuable.

  Since we will be developing for the 32bit Windows NT system the
memory management issues and issues particular to the Windows 3.1 API are less
important.

  We will probably buy another C++ class library (something like Tools.h++ or Booch
components from Rational) to handle data structures and other miscellaneous stuff
 (allocators etc...).  So those features are not that important for this toolkit to have.

The two that I have narrowed it down to are ZApp and Zinc, they seem to be the two
toolkits that have received the most attention from the media.  I was wondering if
anyone had any first-hand experience with any of these toolkits (especially ZApp and Zinc).

A couple of observations about these toolkits that seem particularly noteworthy are:

ZApp
----
  Seems to have the most extensive coverage of Windows functionality and
    also includes some other miscellaneous useful classes.
  Has new fancy 3D-style controls available, and support for custom controls.
  Has a Windows NT version (Essential)
  Redirectable graphics display/output architecture (useful for printing)
  Sizer class for automatically managing control layout after resize.
  Seems to be the newcomer, this could be an advantage in designing a better system.

Zinc
----
  Has a platform independent resource strategy.  (Not too important for me right now)
  Comes with a interface builder tool
  Has a Windows NT version (Essential)
  Seems to have been around longer (more mature), but grew up out of a DOS version.
  Had a better demo :-)

Both have source code availability options
Both are lacking OLE support
Neither seem to have any particular support for multimedia type stuff

Any thoughts anyone has on this would be much appreciated,

Thanks,
  Brett Harper


 OK, I should have read the thread before posting my own $0.02.  I would
just add to Phil's very infomative discussion the following caveat: the
fifth amendment applies ONLY in crinial cases.  ("...nor shall any person .
. . be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...").
Thus if the father sued for custody of the children, the case would be
civil and the defendant mother would not have fifth amendment protection.
Oddly enough, her refusal to give information in a civil case can lead to
criminal contempt charges (thus landing her in jail.)  The interesting part
of all this is that in a murder trial, the woman CAN plead the fifth as
to the location of the child--this is routine.  A "computer crime"
prosecution thus would seem to be fertile ground for this kind of defense,
where a suit by a party injured by "hackers" would not.  If I am accused,
for example, of sending encrypted kiddie porn over the nets the fifth should
protect my key.  If I am accused of sending copyrighted material, however,
it proabably will not (copyright infringement not being a "crime" in the
technical sense.)  The REALLY tricky question is, say I do both (naughty
boy that I am) can the government use the information gained in the civil
trial (ie. my key) to gain access to my files for use in the criminal
prosecution.  The answer should certainly be no, but lord only knows how
this would work out.

Steve.


Th following cd's are for sale. Each cd cost 10$ except otherwise indicated
  which includes shipping and handling.

 Achtung baby				U2 *
 Joshua tree				U2 **
 The immaculate collection              Madonna **  $12
 Love hurts                              Cher *
 Garth brooks                           Garth brooks *
 Red hot ..chilli peppers..               **
 OOOOOHHHHH				TLC **
 Light and shadows			wilson **

 * Used only once.
 ** never used, most of them are still in shrink wraps

 Please email to


Huh?  If I buy a 128M optical, I might lose my friends?  Why - do they
smell bad?

:-)

On a serious note, I have heard the tales about SyQuest failures.  But I
am curious about Jon's comments on cartridge wear for the the Bernoullis.
Can someone elaborate?  Is there a general consensus that the 128M opticals
are the most reliable?  I am mostly concerned about media failures, as
opposed to drive mechanism failures.


   As for advertising -- sure, why not?  A NASA friend and I spent one
   drunken night figuring out just exactly how much gold mylar we'd need
   to put the golden arches of a certain American fast food organization
   on the face of the Moon.  Fortunately, we sobered up in the morning.

Hmmm. It actually isn't all that much, is it? Like about 2 million
km^2 (if you think that sounds like a lot, it's only a few tens of m^2
per burger that said organization sold last year). You'd be best off
with a reflective substance that could be sprayed thinly by an
unmanned craft in lunar orbit (or, rather, a large set of such craft).
If you can get a reasonable albedo it would be visible even at new
moon (since the moon itself is quite dark), and _bright_ at full moon.
You might have to abandon the colour, though.

Buy a cheap launch system, design reusable moon -> lunar orbit
unmanned spraying craft, build 50 said craft, establish a lunar base
to extract TiO2 (say: for colour you'd be better off with a sulphur
compound, I suppose) and some sort of propellant, and Bob's your
uncle.  I'll do it for, say, 20 billion dollars (plus changes of
identity for me and all my loved ones). Delivery date 2010.

Can we get the fast-food chain bidding against the fizzy-drink
vendors? Who else might be interested?

Would they buy it, given that it's a _lot_ more expensive, and not
much more impressive, than putting a large set of several-km
inflatable billboards in LEO (or in GEO, visible 24 hours from your
key growth market). I'll do _that_ for only $5bn (and the changes of
identity).


Someone sent me this FAQ by E-mail and I post my response here.

[I'm not enforcing the inclusion limits on this FAQ because most
of our readers probably haven't seen it.  --clh]

Christ warns that anyone who "breaks one of the least of these
commandments *and* teaches otheres to do the same will be called least in
the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:19.  This FAQ is so full of error that I
must respond to it.  I hope that whoever maintains will remove from it the
partisan theology.

1.  The law was known to man before it was revealed on Mount Sinai.  Rom
4:15 notes that "where no law is, there is no transgression."  Not only
did sin exist before Sinai (Eden), but the Sabbath was kept before it
was revealed on Sinai (Ex 16).

2.  The problem with the first covenant was not the law, but the promise
which undergirded it.  God wanted to perform his will in the lives of the
people, but in their ignorance after 400 years of slavery, they promised
"what ever He says to do we will do."  That is why the new covenant is
based on "better promises" (Heb. 8:6).  Rather than do away with the law
God promised to "put my laws in their minds and write them on their
hearts" (Heb. 8:10).

3.  Including the Sabbath in the Acts 15 is selective inclusion.  The
Sabbath was more important to the Jews than circumcision.  If any attempt
had been made to do away with the Sabbath the reaction would have been
even more strident than is recorded in Acts 15.  Do not confuse the weekly
Sabbath of the Decalogue with the ceremonial sabbaths which could occur at
any time of the week and were part of the law (ceremonial) which was
*added* because of transgression (of the moral law) (Gal 3:19).

4.  Israel stands for God's people of all time.  That is why God *grafted*
the Gentiles in.  Roma 9:4 says that the adoption, the glory, the
covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God and the promises
belong to Israelites.   In explanation Paul makes it clear that being born
into Israel is not enough "For they are not all Israel, which are of
Israel" v 6.  Then in Gal 3:19 he says "if ye be Christ's, then are ye
Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."  All Christians are
Abraham's seed, Jews, Israelites.  Not physically, for that is not the
criterion, but spiritually.  We are joint heirs with Jesus based on the
promise God made to all his people the Israelites.

People would probably agree but they are wrong.  How can the Sabbath
commandment be ceremonial when it is part of a law which predates the
ceremonial laws?  You are not free to choose your time of worship.  Even
if you were why do you follow a day of worship which has its origins in pagan
sun worship.  Would you rather give up a day which God blessed,
sanctified, and hallowed in exchange for one which all church leaders
agree has not biblical foundation (see Sabbath Admissions in
soc.religion.christian.bible-study).
I do not care what Calvin or any theologian says.  My guide is what God
says.  If being not under the law means we do not have to keep the law,
why is it that the only section of the law we have trouble with is the
Sabbath commandment, which is the only one God thought was important
enough to say *REMEMBER*?  If you study the word deeply you will note that
the message is that we are no longer under the condemnation of the law but
freed by the grace of God.  If a cop pulls me over for speeding, then in
court I ask for mercy and the judge does not throw the book at me but gives me
grace, do I walk out of the court saying "I can now go on speeding, for I
am now under grace?"  Being under grace I now drive within the speed
limit.  Paul adds to it in Rom. 3:31 "Di we then make void the law through
faith?  God forbid: yea, we establish the law."  "Wherefore the law is
holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Rom. 7:12).

Do you prefer implication to fact?  A careful study of the Acts 20 shows
that the meeting was on Saturday night and that on Sunday morning Paul did
not go to a worship service, but set off on a long journey by foot to
Assos.  In ICor 16 there is no way you can equate "lay by him in store"
with "go to a worship service."

Wrong.  These are the sabbath days of the ceremonial law, not the Sabbath
day of the moral law.
Why would you prefer to twist and turn, relying on different arguments
which conflict with each other, rather than obey a simple request from a
God who loved you enough to die for you.  Jesus died because the law could
not be changed.  Why bother to die in order to meet the demands of a
broken law if all you need to do is change the law.  Penalties for law
breaking means the law is immutable.  That is why it is no sin not to
follow the demands of the ceremonial laws.  It will always be a sin to
make false gods, to violate God's name, to break the Sabbath, to steal, to
kill, etc.  Except it you disagree.  But then your opinion has no weight
when placed next to the word of God.

Darius

[It's not clear how much more needs to be said other than the FAQ.  I
think Paul's comments on esteeming one day over another (Rom 14) is
probably all that needs to be said.  I accept that Darius is doing
what he does in honor of the Lord.  I just wish he might equally
accept that those who "esteem all days alike" are similarly doing
their best to honor the Lord.

However I'd like to be clear that I do not think there's unambiguous
proof that regular Christian worship was on the first day.  As I
indicated, there are responses on both of the passages cited.

The difficulty with both of these passages is that they are actually
about something else.  They both look like they are talking about
nnregular Christian meetings, but neither explicitly says "and they
gathered every Sunday for worship".  We get various pieces of
information, but nothing aimed at answering this question.

Act 2:26 describes Christians as participating both in Jewish temple
worship and in Christian communion services in homes.  Obviously the
temple worship is on the Sabbath.  Acts 13:44 is an example of
Christians participating in them.  Unfortunately it doesn't tell us
what day Christians met in their houses.  Acts 20:7, despite Darius'
confusion, is described by Acts as occuring on Sunday.  (I see no
reason to impose modern definitions of when days start, when the
Biblical text is clear about what was meant.)  The wording implies to
me that this was a normal meeting.  It doesn't say they gathered to
see Paul off, but that when they were gathered for breaking bread,
Paul talked about his upcoming travel.  But that's just not explicit
enough to be really convincing.  Similarly with 1 Cor 16:2.  It says
that on the first day they should set aside money for Paul's
collection.  Now if you want to believe that they gathered specially
to do this, or that they did it in their homes, I can't disprove it,
but the obvious time for a congregation to take an offering would be
when they normally gather for worship, and if they were expected to do
it in their homes there would be no reason to mention a specific day.
So I think the most obvious reading of this is that "on the first day
of every week" simply means every time they gather for worship.

I think the reason we have only implications and not clear statements
is that the NT authors assumed that their readers knew when Christian
worship was.


I'm looking for the address to join the Cleveland Sports Mailing List.
If anyone knows it, I would be greatful if they could email a copy of
it to me.  If you are a member, just mail me one of the List's letters.
I could probably figure it out from there.

Thanks!


I have an '89 Kawasaki KX 80.  It is in mint condition and starts on the first
kick EVERY time.  I have outgrown the bike, and am considering selling it.  I
was told I should ask around $900.  Does that sound right or should it be
higher/lower?
    Also, I am looking for a used ZX-7.  How much do I have to spend, and what
year should I look for to get a bike without paying an arm and a leg????
    Thanks for the help!

                                                    Rob Fusi
                                                    rwf2@lehigh.edu


While religion certainly has some benefits in a combat situation, what are
the benefits of cocaine?


"Computer Friends" nubus card - good for doing graphics overlays on
your videos etc. $275 with apple 8 bit vid card, $225 without. Wont
sell vid card separately. UPS (U pay shipping).
cheers
Mike.


The first time I heard this piece of news was on the post game radio
interview here in Jyvaskyla. That was the bronze medal game in the
SM-liiga which Tichonov's team Porin Assat (the Aces of town Pori:)
lost.  Vasili, the son of Victor Tichonov (the famous Soviet coach),
said that for a long time the Sharks have been persuading him to
take the assistant coach post. But he wants to be the head coach where
ever he goes. He definitely won't be coaching Assat anymore (after
three? seasons). I don't know why.

Vasili is a good coach I believe. Assat was a good team, produced many
players to our national team. Assat wasn't a skilled team (IMHO) but
they had the fighting spirit. After all, they butchered Jokerit in the
playoffs and gave hard time to TPS, the champs. But Assat wasn't
consistent, only when they were in the right mood they could beat any
team in the SM-liiga.

I am not 100% sure about the deal with the Sharks. As I said, he wants
to be the head coach. But he and the Sharks are going to negotiate and
decide during the WC. I doubt that he will be the head coach but
maybe they'll do some compromise.


[stuff about RHD deSoto's deleted]

Australians still do drive on the "wrong" side of the road. I believe
Sweden changed in 1968. The way I heard it was that they swapped
all the traffic signs around one Sunday....


Well, there already is a sulfate process for TiO2 purification.  The
chlorine process is cleaner, however, and for that reason is achieving
dominance in the marketplace.

Most Ti is used in pigment, btw (as the oxide), where it replaced
white lead pigment some decades ago.  Very little is reduced to the
metal.

Which merely evades the issue of why those lunatics are
there at all (and, why their children would want to stay.)


 and  A VGA monitor..
e-mail


Hey, it's better than the status quo.

I am far less worried about "the feds" tapping my phone than high school
scanner surfers who get their kicks out of eavesdropping on cellular and
cordless phone calls.

It would be stupid to rely on even a "Clipperized" channel for truly
sensitive material, but it *does* seem to finally offer a reasonable way to
guard against casual eavesdropping.  For example, even with my strong "right
to bear arms" view of the private right to possess and use strong
cryptosystems, the system as described provides enough security that I would
actually buy a cordless phone, and would be much less wary of using cellular
phones, walkie-talkies, and so on.  As long as it's only used for mass-market
voice scrambling, I actually don't see a problem with it.

If you want more security than it offers, use something different.  Use PKCS
for electronic mail, CELP over DES or triple DES with Diffie-Hellman key
exchange for your voice traffic, or whatever.

And yes, I'd rather just see all crypto restrictions lifted, but this is at
least an incrememental improvement for certain applications...


burning yourself alive seems a rough way to go, given the waco bunch
had other choices.

but it reminded me of the russian old-believers who, thinking the
antichrist was coming in 1666, grew frantic when Peter the Great
started westernizing Russia and reforming the Russian Church a few
years later. They locked themselves in their churches and burned
themselves alive by the thousands.

are there other cases of apocalypse-obsessed christians resorting
to self-imolation? is there a history of precedents?


.
.
.

Are you sure about this? I'm currently looking at a copy of last
Thursday's SF Chronicle and there is the typical one column Traders
ad on page C7 in the Sports section. Not only that, but there is
a part in the middle which rather prominently says "WANTED: We pay
cash for assault rifles and pistols.". Granted, I haven't seen today's
paper yet. But I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Traders ad in it.
It's probably worth it to write to the Chronicle (and other papers)
anyway, because all their anti-gun editorials are disgusting.

By the way, let me put in a plug for Traders. I have shopped all
over the SF Bay Area and I have never seen another store with lower
prices. And their selection is amazing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lee Gaucher                         |   My opinions.
gaucher@sam.cchem.berkeley.edu      |   No one else's.


Eric, send me your email address, I lost it! I've reconsidered!


  There's documentation on how to use the shared memory extension in the
X11R5 distribution.

  Actually, I just finished writing a motif animation program...
(take-lots-of-image-data-and-display-it-pretty-darn-fast). When using
on-server pixmaps or shared memory, I had to insert a delay loop to keep
it from going too quickly :). Testing both methods side by side, they
were just about equal.

  The advantage of SHM is that your X server doesn't grow to ridiculous
sizes; but pixmaps can work over a network and *are* removed if your
application dies (one tends to use ipcrm manually quite a bit when
debugging SHM apps).

  Shared memory also has the problem that some operating systems (e.g.
Ultrix) seem to allow only a small number of segments (~6) to be
attached to a process at once; consequently, a redraw becomes
XShmAttach();XShmPutImage();XShmDetach(); on Dec systems. And Dec's 24
bit displays (like the ones I tend to use most often) don't seem to
support the extension (maybe someone compiled them wrong?), and using
pixmaps causes the X server to crash (failed mallocs), so one *has* to
use the local unix domain socket (which really isn't that bad; one
copies the info three times per redraw instead of one).

  In short: allowing all three forms of display, within the program is a
Good Thing (minus SHM if running over a network), and let the user pick
whatever feels fastest.

  (I just use an ximagehandler class and forget about it :)


GB> From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
GB> The HMO would stop the over-ordering, but in HMOs, tests are
GB> under-ordered.

That's a somewhat overbroad statement.  I'm sure there are HMOs in
which the fees for lab tests are subtracted from the doctor's
income.  In most, however, including the one I work for, there is no
direct incentive to under-order.  Profits of the group are shared
among all partners, but the group is so large that an individual's
generated costs have a miniscule effect.  I don't believe that we
under-order.  Then again, I'm not really sure what the right amount
of ordering is or should be.  Relative to the average British
neurologist, I suspect that I rather drastically over-order.


I would like to keep track of X development on:
- A/UX
- ULTRIX
- OpenWindows
Currently I cannot use the newsgroup comp.windows.x
and would like to use the Email based info.
Thanks,

Folkert Boonstra


From: Center for Policy Research <cpr>
Subject: Gaza and separation from Israel

Gaza and the idea of separation

The Israeli Left's inability to cope with the challenges it is
presented with by reality becomes obvious at those moments when
the reality does not line up with the expectations of the left. We
were able to see this clearly during the Gulf War.  Because of the
Palestinian's popular solidarity with Iraq, Yossi Sarid -
currently Minister of the Environment - made his infamous
statement: "You look for me !", i.e., I'am not making any more
efforts to speak with you. From Yossi Sarid's point of view,
Palestinian reality during the Gulf War was not the lengthy curfew
or the danger of hunger it brought with it, but whether or not the
Palestinians accepted what was acceptable to the party. Similarly
MERETZ, MK Deddi Tzuker, recently faced with criticism from
residents of the West Bank town of Beit Sahour over his
government's and his party's lack of action for human rights and
peace, responded by asking those present at the discussion whether
they would rather have a Likud government. From the Leftists'
perspective this is the best government because it is THEIR
government, regardless of what it does.

These members of the Israeli Left have already decided how the
future of the Occupied Territories will look, and they want to
dictate to the Palestinians how to get there. An essential step
towards this future is their participation in Yitzhak Rabin's
government, and from their point of view the expulsions were a
marginal byproduct of this "government of peace", which need not
disturb the routine course of events. Likewise the "Rabinic"
policies in Gaza - the blowing up of houses with anti-tank rockets
and the significant increases in the number of persons injured in
the suppression of demonstrations - need not disturb it.

But the fact that reality is not as they would have it forces
itself upon them when a mob in Gaza falls upon a settler who has
lost his way, when a settler is stabbed by his Palestinian
workers, or when a Palestinian knifes people in the streets of Tel
Aviv. Then all hell breaks loose and the Israeli Left has nothing
to propose except separation: Let's cut ourselves off from the
Palestinians, let's build a fence so high that they won't be able
to harm us - this is the cry of the Israeli Left. Let us erect a
fence between us and the reality whith is the occupation.

Meron Benvenisti writes about this in Ha'aretz (4-3-93): "...The
liberal Left. which does not differentiate between physical
separation and 'the future of the territories', must come to
understand that the regime of magnetic cards, exclusion of Arab
workers, closure, and curfew are instruments of enforcement
designed for the suppression of a population in revolt, and that
their ideological support for separation only provides
'humanitarian' arguments for the legitimization of the <status
quo>.

Enforced separation is carried out only to meet the need of the
ruling community, but it is only the ruled population which bears
its burden. [.....].

"Whoover thinks that 'out of Gaza first' is a liberal,
humanitarian idea had best contemplate the question of whether
this position is also moral. It is very easy to shake off
responsibility for this concentration of human suffering, and to
thus also disregard responsibility for it's creation. It is very
easy to erect a fence between Jewish and Arab neighborhoods in
Jerusalem, when this fence has a gate - the keys to which are at
the disposal of one hand - which opens to allow the Jews to pursue
all their interests, but is barred to the Arabs...".


;From the article "What's New" Apr-16-93 in sci.physics.research:
;
;........
;WHAT'S NEW (in my opinion), Friday, 16 April 1993  Washington, DC
;
;1. SPACE BILLBOARDS! IS THIS ONE THE "SPINOFFS" WE WERE PROMISED?
;What about light pollution in observations? (I read somewhere else that
;it might even be visible during the day, leave alone at night).
;Is NASA really supporting this junk?
;Are protesting groups being organized in the States?
;Really, really depressed.
;
;             Enzo

I wouldn't worry about it.  There's enough space debris up there that
a mile-long inflatable would probably deflate in some very short
period of time (less than a year) while cleaning up LEO somewhat.
Sort of a giant fly-paper in orbit.

Hmm, that could actually be useful.

As for advertising -- sure, why not?  A NASA friend and I spent one
drunken night figuring out just exactly how much gold mylar we'd need
to put the golden arches of a certain American fast food organization
on the face of the Moon.  Fortunately, we sobered up in the morning.


Using the VMODE command, all you need to do is type VMODE VESA at the dos
prompt. VMODE is included with the Speedstar 24.  I have used the VESA mode
for autodesk animator pro.


Gravity. It'll never let you down, er up, er...

Lesson: Put your helmet on the ground or your head. If you put it on the
ground, it isn't gonna fall down _to_ the ground. If you put it on your
head, well...

                  tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil


Tcpview is the result of several problems we had at UW.  We have several
Network General Sniffers which are heavily used to help debug problems on
several hundred subnets. These are good tools, but they are 1) heavy,
2) hard to find when you need one, 3) limited in their software expandibility,
4) difficult to use to upload data for analysis, 5) cannot be remotely
operated, and 6) cannot resolve names with DNS, requiring much manual
manipulation of the name table.  We also sometimes use tcpdump, but we found
it 1) too difficult for most people, 2) did not have enough information for
many protocols, 3) could not be used interactively, 4) could not handle
TCP streams and 5) could not read Sniffer files.  However, tcpdump did do
a reasonable job of decoding a large number of protocols, and could be easily
modified.  Tcpview is an attempt to resolve these problems
by adding a Motif interface to tcpdump and expanding its features.

Tcpview has been tested on a DECstation 5000 and Sun 4 under Ultrix 4.2 and
SunOS 4.1 respectively.  It should work on the same systems as tcpdump.
It compiles with cc and gcc on the DEC and Sun.  To build tcpview you will
need Motif 1.1 or better.

The following files are available for anonymous ftp from
ftp.cac.washington.edu in /pub/networking

tcpview-1.0.tar.Z	tcpview and tcpdump source code
tcpview-1.0.sun.tar.Z	Sun4 binaries
tcpview-1.0.dec.tar.Z	DEC Mips Ultrix 4.2 binaries

What tcpview adds to tcpdump:
- easier interface
- enhanced protocol decoding
- hex display of frame
- capture based on time, number of frames, or user interrupt
- can show ethernet addresses with manufacturer's name
- ethernet address host table
- can easily follow a stream, highlighting out-of-order frames
- can send TCP data to an external file or filter for additional
	processing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHANGES TO TCPDUMP 2.2.1

New features:

Now reads and writes Network General Sniffer files.  When used with '-r', the
file type will be automatically detected.

Can now read in (and use) an SNMP MIB file.

The hex format has been changed.

New time options have been added.

Options were added to allow viewing and processing of the data in TCP packets.

Bugs were fixed in the relative TCP sequence numbers. (-S flag)

New flags:
-R	read Sniffer file.  Not usually needed, except for reading from stdin
-ttt	prints delta times
-tttt	prints times relative to the first frame
-W	write a Sniffer save file (use with -w)
-x	print frame (minus link-level header) in hexdump format.
	Sample output:

16:36:23.349851 jeff.cac.washington.edu.1285 > nic.funet.fi.ftp: S 0:0(0) win 16384
        0000  45 00 00 28 8a 98 00 00 3c 06 7c 9c 80 5f 70 02   |  E..(....<.|.._p.
        0010  80 d6 06 64 05 05 00 15 5b 19 4a 00 00 00 00 00   |  ...d....[.J.....
        0020  50 02 40 00 4e 13 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00         |  P.@.N.........

-X	print TCP data in hexdump format (used with -Z)
-z	write TCP data to stdout (use with -t to eliminate timestamp)
-Z	write frames and TCP data to stdout

Martin M. Hunt
martinh@cac.washington.edu
Networks & Distributed Computing
University of Washington

--


The problem with "Let's assume" reasoning is that, taken to the extreme
(and you're close), you arrive at "Let's assume this is perfectly OK."

The assumptions you make are big ones. If the system is really secure, then
why does the government have to keep the algorithm secret?  There are plenty
of encryption algorithms that don't depend upon nondisclosure to be secure,
so why in the world use one that does?  There are reasons, of course, but
I certainly can't think of any honest ones.

Next, you assume we can "trust" the escrow houses. But the last time I checked,
EVERY SINGLE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT has experienced unauthorized disclosure,
corruption, and even fabrication, of supposedly secure data. The govt is
saying "Yeah, but NOW we're serious, so you can trust us."  Bullcrypt.

And finally, although you didn't state it explicitly, you implicitly assume
that the warrant mechanism in this country is safe and reasonable. The case
in Ventura County of a man shot and killed by officers serving a deliberately
fraudulant warrant tells me that the govt has a long ways to go on this
score.

Remember that all this is to catch the drug dealers, right?  As others
have pointed out, the current proposal will, if deployed, render truly secure
encryption much more expensive and inconvenient than Uncle Sam's brand.
Who will be able to afford, and be sufficiently motivated, to purchase this
expensive, inconvenient higher protection?  Somebody with lots of extra
cash...

The following is more true than ever:

  "When [strong] encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have [strong]
encryption."


Why thanks for your reply to my post.  By the way, I never, never ever said
that it was right to shoot "THOSE kind" of babies.  However it was the Branch
Davidian people in there that insisted on staying there with their "savior"
(yeah right budy boy) because he had brain-washed them into believing that
what ever he says is the truth, even if means that they are to give up their
lives for <<<<HIS>>>> cause.  Therefore it is Davids fault and not the ATF's
who gave them 50 to 51 days to get out, this was 50 days to many for me and
for many of the rest of the U.S.  I am however sad to hear of the death of any
child unlike the sick bastard I supposedly am.


Peir-Yuan Yeh asks:

same >or part of them are the same?  How about Torah? Are the first five
books >of OT as the same as Torah?????

Yes, yes, and yes.  Jewish history as recorded in the Old Testament and
as shown by archaeology are the same.  Kings, revivals, Temples, and all.

The Torah, as far as I know, is the five books of Moses.  Then come the
Prophets (all the Prophets, plus Joshua, Judges, 1&2 Samuel, 1&2 Kings)
and the Writings (Psalms, Proverbs, Lamentations, Ruth, Esther, Ezra,
Nehemiah, Ecclesiates, Song of Songs, 1&2 Chronicles, Job).

And the veracity of Isaiah, which you quoted to your Moslem friend is
quite well known.  A complete manuscript exists that dates back to past
200 BC, and is kept in a Museum in Israel.  It was found among the Dead
Sea Scrolls, which greatly enhanced our knowledge of the veracity of the
Old Testament, as they date back to around the time of Christ, whereas
before, the oldest complete manuscript in Hebrew was from around 900 AD.

Your Moslem friend is sorely mistaken, but understandably so.  If Jesus
was crucified, and atoned for our sins, he must have been God, for only
the death of God could atone for the sins of all humanity.  And as
Isaiah predicts, the messiah will be called "the mighty God."  And if he
was God, then he must have rose, for as St. Paul wrote, it was not
possible that death could hold him.  And if Jesus rose from the dead,
your Moslem friend would have little reason to be a Moslem.  Which is
why he denies the authenticity of the Old Testament.


But you still get into trouble. For example - how often are crimes
of violence not "hate crimes"? The question is then who are you
hating? If its another gang member, then its better than if
the person you hate is of a differnt color?

Also, is it realistic to declare that crimes of hate are worse
than crimes of gross negligence? (Like random drive by shootings
where they can't be hate crimes because the shooter doesn't know
who he is going to hit - he just shoots into the crowd).

First, I heard today that there is a good chance that the U.S. instead
of New York is going after the bombers. This means no capital punishment.

Secondly, double jepardy does help keep the government from going after
you for first one murder, then the next, etc. A "sovereign" has essentially
one chance with a single fact pattern (such as the World Trade Center bombing).
That is why the bombers will in all probability be tried for all the
deaths, as well as the property damages, as well as conspiracy, at once.
Of course, as we discovered in the Rodney King case, there are two
"sovereigns", neither of which can try you twice for the same crime.


Okay, I don't use it very much, but I would like for it to keep working
correctly, at least as long as Apple continues to make System software
that will run on it, if slowly :-)

Here is the problem:  When the screen is tilted too far back, vertical
lines appear on the screen.  They are every 10 pixels or so, and seem
to be affected somewhat by opening windows and pulling down menus.
It looks to a semi-technical person like there is a loose connection
between the screen and the rest of the computer.

I am open to suggestions that do not involve buying a new computer,
or taking this one to the shop.  I would also like to not have
to buy one of Larry Pina's books.  I like Larry, but I'm not sure
I feel strongly enough about the computer to buy a service manual
for it.

On a related note:  what does the monitor connector connect to?


Most of you will have probably seen the news by the time you read this,
but the Branch Davidian compound is no more.  This morning about 6:00,
the feds punched holes in the compound walls by using a tank.  They
then started using non-lethal tear gas.  Shortly after noon, 2 cult
members were seen setting fire to the compound.  So far, about 20-30
people have been seen outside the compound.  The fate of the other 60 or
70 people is unknown, neither is the fate of the 17 children that were
inside.  The compound did burn to the ground.

Koresh, who at times has claimed to be the Messiah, but then backed off
and only claimed to be a prophet, had promised several times to come
out peacefully if his demands were met.  First, he demanded that his
message be broadcast on the radio, which it was, but he didn't come out.
He claimed to be waiting for a message from God.  Finally, he said that
God told him that he needed to decipher the mystery of the 7 seals in
Revelation, and when he was finished, he'd come out.  He finished the
first one, but didn't do any more work that anyone knows of since then.
The federal agents did warn him that if they didn't come out, they
would be subjected to tear gas.

I think it's really sad that so many people put their faith in a mere
man, even if he did claim to be the son of God, and/or a prophet.  I
think it underscores the importance of putting you faith only in
things that are eternal and knowing for yourself what the Scriptures
say and what they mean, instead of relying on others to do it for you,
even if those others are learned and mean well.


I posted this over in sci.astro, but it didn't make it here.
Thought you all would like my wonderful pithy commentary :-)

What? You guys have never seen the Goodyear blimp polluting
the daytime and nightime skies?

Actually an oribital sign would only be visible near
sunset and sunrise, I believe.  So pollution at night
would be minimal.

If it pays for space travel, go for it.  Those who don't
like spatial billboards can then head for the pristine
environment of Jupiter's moons :-)


Again, I do not speak for Peter Tattam, but it is my understanding that it
will shareware status as Trumpet 1.05 for DOS is, and I imagine that the
registration fees will be similar.  I also believe that a new version of
Trumpet for DOS will be released sometime in the near future.

Ashok


Ok, here goes.  Yes folks, I realize I have stuck my foot in my mouth
quite a few times already so please let me make some clarifications.  My
inaccurate information in my posts was due to lack of knowledge.  Thanks
to you kind (and some not so kind) people I am learning.   Some people
have given me several good points to ponder and I see how I was wrong.
In no way was this inaccurate information supposed to be trying to
further the anti-gun cause.  I have said several times before (but
nobody seemed to be listening) that I am pro-gun and anti-gun-control.

As far as the race can of worms that I have opened up I have only one
thing to say - I am in no way prejudiced.  Some of the things I have
stated were said to demonstrate that I am not prejudiced and/or a racist
but I have been accused of being too aware of race and prejudiced.  I will not
say anymore about that subject because no matter what I say it will be the
wrong thing.

Boy, what a start to being on a new group.  Oh well, things have been
worse in my life.

I hope this clears things up but I guess that will remain to be seen.

By for now,


I remember someone mention about a 150meg syquest.  Has anyone else
heard anything about this?  I'd be interested in the cost per megabyte and the
approximate cost of the drive itself and how they compare to the Bernoulli 150.


I've started to notice the same thing myself. I'm running DOS 5 and Win 3.1 so
I can fix it from the Windows Control Panel. At times it is the date, at
others the clock seems to be running several minutes behind where it should
be.

If you find out I'd like to know also. Oh, and I also leave my system running
all the time.


Well, may I point out that paranoia is an IRRATIONAL fear, without basis
in reality.  As we've seen here in the US, there is nothing irrational
about it.  Perhaps you folks in Finland have been down on your knees
being good little boys and girls so that the former Soviet Union didn't
come across the border and stomp the snot out of you for so long that
you just figure everybody should be so accomodating to tyranny.

If you don't like us talking about political issues involving attacks
on people for owning guns, don't read talk.politics.guns.

Nobody's trying to save YOU from anything, so butt out.  I couldn't
care less about what somebody on the other side of the world thinks
about this. Of course, you do have a right to an opinion...  but I've
always figured that opinons are like hemmorhoids.  Every asshole's
got them, I just don't care about yours.