-> Actually, the words "A well regulated Milita, being necessary to the
-> security of a free state" is a present participle, used as an
-> adjective to modify 'militia', which is followed by the main clause of
-> the sentence, the subject being 'the right', the verb 'shall'.  It
-> asserts that the right to keep and bear arms is essential for
-> maintaining a milita.
-> a free state.

Yes, I agree the first half of the amendment does modify the noun
militia.  But the difinition of modify that applies to how "well regulated"
modifies "militia" is:
	to qualify or limit the meaning of.  For example, "wet"
	modifes "day" in the phrase "a wet day."

The amendment is similiar to the statement:
	A wet day, being annoying, the right of the people to keep
	and wear boots, shall not be infringed.
So how does a dry day pertain the right to use boots?  Similiar,
what does the "unorganized militia" have to due with the right to
own guns?

-> The sentence [in the Second Amendment] doesn't restrict the right, or
-> state or imply possession of the right by anyone or anything other
-> than the people.  All it does is make a positive statement regarding a
-> right of the people. The PEOPLE, as in you and me, as in the First,
-> Fourth, Ninth, Tenth, as well as the Second amendment.
-> The existence of this right is assumed - it is not granted by the
-> amendment. There is no stated or implied condition relating the right
-> to bear arms to the necessity of a well-regulated militia to the security of
-> In other words, the entire sentence says that the right to keep and
-> bear arms is UNCONDITIONAL.

No not, unconditional, but "shall not be infringed".  Infringed
is defined as:
	To break or ignore the terms of or obligations (an oath,
	an agreement, law, or the like); to disreguard; violate.
	To go beyond the boundaries or limits; tresspass; encroach.
This definition implies the following of some form of existing
agreement.  Laws and agreements are made in advance.  Boundaries
or limits of behavior are set by society as a whole.  The word
"unconditional" implies no agreements or all previous agreements
are off, which is the opposite.

The words used in the first amendment are much stronger, i.e.,
"congress shall make no law," are much stronger.  They clearly
	         ^^^^^^^^^^^
imply "unconditional."  If the writers of the amendment, wanted
unconditional whay didn't they says, "congress shall make no
laws pertaining the the right of the people to keep and bear arms"?
The second amendment implies a sort contract between the people
the people and the state.  The bigger part of the contract is
the people have the right to overthrew the government and its laws
at any time.  To guarantee this right, the laws cannot stopped
the people from forming a "well regutaled militia."  The duties
of a "well regulated militia" to the government are descussed in
Federalist No. 29.  And the limits of of the governmental control
of the militia are descussed in Article I Section 8, Article II
Section 2, and the Second Amendment of the constitution.


IBM 3510-001 cd-rom drive 350ms. drive only make offer or trade.


I've just read Richard Langley's latest "Navstar GPS Constellation Status".

It states that the latest satellite was placed in Orbit Plane Position C-3.
There is already one satellite in that position. I know that it's almost
ten years since that satellite was launched but it's still in operation so
why not use it until it goes off?

Why not instead place the new satellite at B-4 since that position is empty
and by this measure have an almost complete GPS-constellation
(23 out of 24)?

/Thomas
================================================================================
Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden


It is interesting that you posted those lyrics, because just the
other day I was thinking of doing the same.  I like those lyrics,
since whenever I am approached by judgemental, pharisitical,
evangelical fundamentalists who throw the Bible at me because
I have long hair, wear a black leather jacket, and listen to Black
Sabbath, I have something to throw back.  Usually their chins drop
and they come up speechless over those not very satanic lyrics.

It just goes to show that there are more important evils in the
world to battle than rock lyrics...........


[article deleted]

It sounds like a joke (but then the war on drugs has always been a joke...).


Note: I am cross-posting (actually, emailing) this to
bit.listserv.catholic while main posting goes to
soc.religion.christian.

[Quotations omitted.  This is in response to a question about
the Immaculate Conception.  I explained it, but left justification
up to our Catholic readers.  --clh]

There is no direct reference in the Holy Scripture except for the
mention of Mary's _blessedness_/full of grace in the "Annunciation" by
Angel Gabriel in Luke 1:26-28

 And in the 6th month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto
 a city of Galilee, named Nazareth.  To a virgin espoused to a
 man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's
 name was Mary.  And the angel came unto her and said, _"Hail,
 thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed
 art thou among women."_

Now, now, hold that line of thought - "the Lord is with Mary &
blessed art thou among women" - while you read on....

In the book, "First Lady of the World, A Popular History of
Devotion to Mary" by Peter Lappin:

The _Immaculate Conception_ matter is really far more complicated
than the _Assumption_.  This arose in 430 AD.  It is quite possible
that the feast of _Mary's Conception_ under the title "The Conception
of Saint Anne", originally commemorated the _physical miracle_ of
a woman _beyond the age_ of child bearing, conceiving a daughter,
just as Elizabeth had conceived John the Baptist.  A transfer in
emphasis from the physical miracle wrought in Anne to the miracle
of grace wrought by God in the soul of Mary was _logical_.  Mary
is the incorruptible timber "out of which was hewn the _tabernacle_
of Christ's sinless body"; she is "God's Eden, in whom there is
no tree of knowledge, and no serpent that harms."  Her perfect
beauty and spotlessness find their exemplar in Christ, her
purity in that of the Father.  At the time of the Council of Ephesus,
she was hailed as "innocent, without blemish, immaculate, inviolate,
spotless, holy in soul and body, who was blessed as a lily from
among thorns, unlearned in the evil ways of Eve".
...
At the end of the thirteenth century, an Irish Franciscan,
John Duns Scotus (1266-1308),...God maintained that it was a
greater thing for Him to preserve His (the Son) mother from all
sin _than to use His power to clease her from it later_.
...

Now let's go to the discussion of baptism and original sin.
From "Pocket Catholic Cathechism" by John A. Hardon:

Baptism -
Concupiscence Remains after Baptism.
Concupiscence or the tendency to sin remains in the baptized
but since it is left to provide trial, it has no power to
injure those who do not consent and who by the grace of
Christ Jesus, manfully resist (Canon 5).

Original gifts of Adam and Eve before their fall:
In the light of the foregoing, we see that our first
parents were originally gifted three times over:
-They had the natural gifts of human beings especially the
 power to think and to choose freely.
-The had the _preternatural_ gifts of bodily immortality
 and of integrity, or the internal power to control desires.
-They had the _supernatural_ gifts of sanctifying grace,
 the virtues of faith, hope, and charity and the corresponding
 title to enter heaven.
By their disobedience, they lost the _supernatural and
preternatural_ gifts entirely, and were weakened (without
losing) their natural capacity to reason and to choose
freely.

Baptism restores the _supernatural_ life lost by Adam's
sin.  It _does not_ restore the _preternatural_ gifts
but gifts as a title to a glorified restoration of our
bodies on the last day...

Going back to _Immaculate Conception_
(I am not sure if this interpretation is in any other
books but it may be another contribution to the 'puzzle'):

Given the miracle of St. Anne bearing a child at a
non-childbearing age, AND Christ was not yet born
AND _there was no baptism yet_ on Mary's birth but
STILL, the Angel Gabriel's greetings was:
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.
Blessed art thou amongst women".

Even Mary was confused about this greeting.

Mary could very well have possessed all of the
_treefold original gifts above_ given to our first
parents (Adam and Eve before their sin):
    Hail Mary (Example of praise given by the Angel Gabriel)
    Full of grace (natural, preternatural, supernatural)
    The Lord is with you (At those times, God would
                definitely want to be with those He
                has made _blessed_)
    Blessed art thou amongst women (that says it all)

At the conception, God made Mary _full of grace
and blessed_ as the 'tabernacle' for the coming body
of Christ and so,

Immaculate Conception of Mary is true and Mary still
has maintained her Immaculate Heart.


-> > This mention of a well regulated militia is what confuses me.  According
-> > to the Federalist Paper's, a well regulated militia has a well defined
-> > structure and follows nationally uniform regulations.
->
-> Perhaps you should actually READ the Federalist Papers!!

Perhaps you should, reread Federal 29 which deals exclusively with the
"well regulated malitia."  Here is what is says about its character:

	 To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes
	 of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through
	 military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to
	 acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the
	 character of a well-regulated militia,

It also talks about the "well regulated militia" having a nationally
uniform in structure and disipline.

I will note you did quote the end of this particular paragraph which states:

    	Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with
	respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed
	and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it
	will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of
	a year.

But, do you knew how much organization is required to training a large
group of poeple twice a year.  Just to try to get the same people
every year, provide a basic training to new people so they can
be integrated into the force, and find a suitable location, it
requires a continually standing committee of organizers.

Since a well regulate militia is nationally uniform in structure and
disipline, and meet once or twice a year to train, how can you claim
a "well regulated militia" is not well organized.  But I will concide
a "well organized militia" is not necessarily a "well regulated militia."

Several people have stated that the "well organized militia" is
what is defined under 10 USC 311, which states

	The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
	males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in
	section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are,
	or who have made a declaration of intention to become,
	citizens of the United States and of female citizents of
	the United States who are commissioned officers of the
	National Guard.

This deos define the militia, but were is the adjective "well regulated."
10 USC 311 does not define a "well regualed militia" in any way, shape,
or form.  It only defines who can become part of a well regulated militia
The Federalist Papers CLEARLY define the "well regualed militia" as a
proper SUBSET of the militia.  In the same paragraph quoted above, it
talk above "disciplining all the militia of the United States" so they
fit the "character of a well-regulated militia."  This is what the
paragraph states about the associated costs:

	It would form an annual deduction from the productive labor
	of the country, to an amount which, calculating upon the
	present numbers of the people, would not fall far short
	of the whole expense of the civil  establishments of all
	the States. To attempt a thing which would abridge the
	mass of labor and industry to so considerable an extent,
	would be unwise: and the experiment, if made, could not
	succeed, because it would not long be endured.

Another quote provide by Charles Scripter is:
James Madison, Federalist Paper 41 (regarding the "General Welfare" clause):
	"Nothing is more natural nor common than first
	to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a
	recital of particulars."

So the phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall
not be infringed" must either qualify or explain the phrase "a well
regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state."
The definition of "explain" as stated in "The American Hertitage
Dictionary of the Enlish Language" The New College Edition, 1982 is:
	1) To make plain or comprehensible; remove obscruity from;
	   elucidate: "It was the economists who undertook to explain
	   this puzzle"
	2) To define; explicate; expound: He explained his plan.
	3) To offer reasons for or a cause of; an answer for' justify:
	   explain an error
The second phrase clearly does not "explain" the first, therefore
the second phrase must "qualify" the first.  The definition given
for "qualify" is:
	1) To describe by enumerating the characteristics or qualities
	   of; characterize.
	2) To make competent or suitable for office, position, or
	   task.
	3) To give legal power to; make legally capable.
	4) To modify, limit, or restrict, as giving exceptions.
	5) To make less harsh or severe; moderate
	6) Grammar: To modify the meaning of (a word or phrase)
Since "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed" does not describe, modify or make less harsh anything and
it has nothing to do with grammar or some sort of position or task.
By process of elimination it must fall into definition #3.  And since
#3 deals with legal power, the same thing the Constitution does, it
must be the correct definition in this case.  Therefore, "the right
of the people to keep and bear Arms" gives legal power to the "well
regualated militia" and this legal power "shall not be infringed".

I thank you very much Mr Scripter, you have provided me with more
evidence that the Second Amendment only concerns itseft with the
people's right to form well regulate militia, and says very little
about the right of an untrained person to "keep and bear" a .50 caliber
machine gun.  And since I, totally untrained in the use of any firearm
(something I personly have meant to correct by going to a NRA gun
safety course and joining a gun club), cannot legally buy such a machine
gun, I conclude the courts and democraticly elected congress agree with
me.

-> So now we know which category Mr. Rutledge is in; He means to destroy
-> our Liberties and Rights.

I mean "to destory our Liberties and Rights."  Is that why a participate
in the discussion of exactly what "our Libertues and Rights" are?  I
force my version of "our Liberties and Rights" by begining statements
of what "our Liberties and Rights" with "All that the Second Amendment
clearly states to me."   Using expressions, such as "states to me,"
clearly mean I intend to force my views on others?  I don't think so.

So in effort not to force my views and not "to destory our Liberties and
Rights,"  I state that nothing I have written, or will write, in
the matter of "Liberties and Rights" is the final word.  For I am only
one person among many and the final word on "Liberties and Rights" cleary
and irrevocably belongs to the many.


Nope, I've answered each question posed, and most were answered multiple
times.


boxscores.

Beware.  The original poster looks to be from Louisville, and chances are
Louisville gets the edition of the NYTimes that is printed in Chicago for the
MidWest.  This edition has boxscores only on Monday (and Sunday) and an
extremely skimpy sports section (few game summaries, mostly just color
stories).


there you go the greeks have been trying for over a year, even though
mr. mitsotakis was threatening the EC that if Macedonia was recognized
that the honourable papandreou would be back...

well i guess the europeans pulled the plug eh ..? theis is just one
other example about the corruptness and the "perversity" of greek
foreign policy objectives...

pity to those who have to live under the greek flag with "these"
political decision-makers...

MORE RECOGNITION FOR MACEDONIA.  Belgium, Germany, and Italy joined
Denmark on 15 April in recognizing the Republic of Macedonia, AFP
reports.  Each is an EC member state. Greece, which has blocked EC
recognition of Macedonia, noted that such recognition "does not
facilitate" negotiations between Athens and Skopje now underway in
New York.  Duncan Perry, RFE/RL, Inc.

the day will come when reuters will write "despite lengthy negotiations
and numerous attempts to reunite the island THE TURKISH REPUBLIC
OF NORTHERN CYPRUS " was recognized by...


Of course it releases radiation! Thats why your car goes faster when
you punch the holes in it. All that radiation gets on your engine
and gives it "pep" (scientific term). You get more horsepower &
torque too! If you don't know what HP & torque are, you can read
mile long threads on the subject, but they are all wrong. Horsepower
is how much power a horse can make pulling a Subaru, and torque is
a name invented by Craftsman for a wrench.


Anybody seen the date get stuck?

I'm running MS-DOS 5.0 with a menu system alive all the time.  The machine
is left running all the time.

Suddenly, the date no longer rolls over.  The time is (reasonably) accurate
allways, but we have to change the date by hand every morning.  This involves
exiting the menu system to get to DOS.

Anyone have the slightest idea why this should be?  Even a clue as to whether
the hardware (battery? CMOS?) or DOS is broken?


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, lend me your ears for but a moment,

	The National Legue Eastern Division Champions will be the...

       			Philadelphia Phillies

		I one hundred and ten percent guarantee!!!

	Chamberlain Hollins Dykstra Incaviglia Jackson Williams
	Daulton Greene Kruk Mulholland Rivera Thompson Duncan


The situation in this regard has changed considerably in recent years.
See the discussion of "high-power rocketry" in the rec.models.rockets
frequently-asked-questions list.

This is not hardware you can walk in off the street and buy; you need
proper certification.  That can be had, mostly through Tripoli (the high-
power analog of the NAR), although the NAR is cautiously moving to extend
the upper boundaries of what it considers proper too.

You need special FAA authorization, but provided you aren't doing it under
one of the LAX runway approaches or something stupid like that, it's not
especially hard to arrange.

As with model rocketry, this sort of hardware is reasonably safe if handled
properly.  Proper handling takes more care, and you need a lot more empty
air to fly in, but it's basically just model rocketry scaled up.  As with
model rocketry, the high-power people use factory-built engines, which
eliminates the major safety hazard of do-it-yourself rocketry.


Dominik,

	Have you tried xgrasp?  It's out there on several ftp sites.(not sure which, but archie can find it, I'm sure.)  It works ok but it lacks an interface.


NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4/14/93.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  STANDINGS
      PATRICK              ADAMS              NORRIS              SMYTHE
 TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT

xPIT  56 21  7 119  xBOS  51 26  7 109  xCHI  46 25 12 104  xVAN  45 29  9  99
yWAS  42 34  7  91  yQUE  47 27 10 104  yDET  46 28  9 101  yCAL  42 30 11  95
yNJ   40 36  7  87  yMON  48 30  6 102  yTOR  44 28 11  99  yLA   39 34 10  88
yNYI  39 37  7  85  yBUF  38 35 10  86   STL  36 36 11  83  yWIN  39 37  7  85
 PHL  34 37 11  79   HAR  26 51  6  58   MIN  36 37 10  82   EDM  26 49  8  60
 NYR  34 38 11  79   OTT  10 70  4  24   TB   23 53  7  53   SJ   11 70  2  24

x - Clinched Division Title
y - Clinched Playoff Berth

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boston Bruins    (51-26-7)   2   2   0   -   4
Ottawa Senators  (10-70-4)   0   1   1   -   2

1st period: BOS, Roberts 5 - (Juneau) 7:19
	    BOS, Wiemer 1 - (Juneau, Oates) 17:47

2nd period: BOS, Neely 11 - (Juneau, Murphy) 6:10
	    BOS, Hughes 5 - (Richer, Kimble) 7:55
	    OTT, Archibald 9 - (Rumble, Lamb) 11:37

3rd period: OTT, Boschman 9 - (Kudelski) 5:10

Powerplay Opportunities-Bruins   0 of 2
			Senators 0 of 4

Shots on Goal-	Bruins    13  11  10  -  34
		Senators   5   9  12  -  26

Boston Bruins--Moog (36-14-3) (8 shots - 8 saves)  Blue (9:38 second)
	       (18 shots - 16 saves)
Ottawa Senators--Sidorkiewicz (8-46-3) (27 shots - 23 saves)  Berthiaume
		 (6:36 third) (7 shots - 7 saves)

ATT-10,500

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Washington Capitals   (42-34-7)   0   0   2   -   2
New York Rangers     (34-38-11)   0   0   0   -   0

1st period: NONE

2nd period: NONE

3rd period: WAS, Bondra 36 - (Pivonka, Cavallini) 6:54
	    WAS, Bondra 37 - (Cote, Pivonka) 10:10

Powerplay Opportunities-Capitals 0 of 2
			Rangers  0 of 1

Shots on Goal-	Capitals  16  11  12  -  39
		Rangers    8   7   8  -  23

Washington Capitals--Tabaracci (7-11-0) (23 shots - 23 saves)
New York Rangers--Richter (13-17-3) (39 shots - 37 saves)

ATT-17,897

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New York Islanders  (39-37-7)   2   1   1   0   -   4
Hartford Whalers    (26-51-6)   2   1   1   1   -   5

1st period: NYI, Ferraro 13 - (Malakhov, King) 1:29
	    NYI, Hogue 32 - (Thomas, Turgeon) 1:57
	    HAR, Yake 21 - (Poulin) 4:15
	    HAR, Yake 22 - (Nylander, Poulin) 16:44

2nd period: HAR, Verbeek 39 - (Cassels, Weinrich) (pp) 2:43
	    NYI, Thomas 35 - (King, Ferraro) 7:58

3rd period: HAR, Burt 5 - (Sanderson, Cassels) 13:41
	    NYI, Malakhov 14 - (Hogue) 17:45

Overtime:   HAR, Janssens 12 - (Poulin) 1:08

Powerplay Opportunities-Islanders 0 of 3
			Whalers   1 of 3

Shots on Goal-	Islanders  16   8   7   1  -  32
		Whalers     7  13   7   1  -  28

New York Islanders--Fitzpatrick (16-15-5) (28 shots - 23 saves)
Hartford Whalers--Lenaduzzi (1-0-1) (32 shots - 28 saves)

ATT-10,915

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pittsburgh Penguins  (56-21-7)   2   3   1   0   -   6
New Jersey Devils    (40-36-7)   2   4   0   0   -   6

1st period: PIT, Daniels 5 - (Needham, Tippett) 4:14
	    NJD, C.Lemieux 29 - (Semak, Driver) 10:19
	    PIT, K.Stevens 55 - (Tocchet, Murphy) (pp) 12:40
	    NJD, Zelepukin 22 - (Driver, Niedermayer) 17:26

2nd period: PIT, M.Lemieux 68 - (Stevens, Tocchet) 1:42
	    NJD, Semak 36 - (C.Lemieux, Zelepukin) 2:27
	    PIT, McEachern 28 - (Jagr, Barrasso) 4:24
	    NJD, S.Stevens 12 - (Guerin, Pellerin) 5:45
	    PIT, M.Lemieux 69 - (sh) 12:40
	    NJD, Richer 37 - (Nicholls) 15:53
	    NJD, C.Lemieux 30 - (Semak, Zelepukin) 17:40

3rd period: PIT, Mullen 33 - (Jagr, M.Lemieux) 18:54

Overtime:   NONE

Powerplay Opportunities-Penguins 1 of 5
			Devils   0 of 3

Shots on Goal-	Penguins   9  11   8   2  -  30
		Devils    12  15   9   3  -  39

Pittsburgh Penguins--Barrasso (43-14-5) (39 shots - 33 saves)
New Jersey Devils--Billington (21-14-4) (30 shots - 24 saves)

ATT-14,796

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes.  Unfortunately, there is also the concept that the owner of a car
is not responsible for the actions of any (authorized) user of the car.
That's one of the biggest arguments against photo-radar ticketing
systems.

Trouble with that is, you then have no recourse if a mis-issued ticket
or a clerical error on a computer follow you around.  The City of Chicago
(the informal motto of which being "The City the Works") issues dozens
of parking tickets each year to people who have never set foot (or tire)
in the city.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As a muslim (spelled sometimes as Moslem) I must say that Muslims strong
ly believe in Jesus.  Refered in islamic text as eesau(as)

         Jesus ==>  J - esu  - s    ===> esu (pronounced eee-saw)

Yah we knew him well.  Ideally, this war should not even be.  And even in
a time of war, our goal is peace.  We should try to refrain from viloating
the peace of others as then if we do violate, we will not have peace in
ourselves.  I don't like this war eaither,  It is a conflict of territory.
Croats, Muslims, and Serbs lived together before in peace.  The rallying
point is 'race'.  And Im sure that there is a General out there who wouldn't
mind being a president.

--
Mohammad R. Khan                /    khan0095@nova.gmi.edu
After July '93, please send mail to  mkhan@nyx.cs.du.edu


No, it's a sign of aristocrtic out-of-touchness with the middle
class.  You ask George Herbert Walker Bush about that.

And that's not his full name?  What, then, is it?

---
"Even Quayle had his honeymoon period.  It lasted a full 48 hours
after he was chosen as Bush's running mate."


Long time, no see.

			Andreas

--

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint


All of the arguments concerning the Sabbath ought to make the point
pretty clear - anyone outside of the Catholic or Orthodox orAnglican or
Monophysite churches ourght to worship on Saturday if they are really
sola scriptura.  Otherwise, they are following a law put into effect by
the Church, and only the above Chruches really recognize any power of
the Chruch to do so.

Andy Byler

[You will note that nothing in the FAQ said anything about the Church
establishing or changing a law.  The argument against the Sabbath is
that it is part of the ceremonial law, and like the rest of the
ceremonial law is not binding on Christians.  This argument is based
on Paul's letters, Acts, and in a more general sense, Jesus'
teachings.  Further, most people argue that Scripture shows worship
occuring on Sunday, and Paul endorsing it.  I understand that these
points are disputed, and do not want to go around the dispute one more
time.  The point I'm making here is not that these arguments are
right, but that the backing they claim is Scripture.

Accepting the principle of "sola scriptura" does not commit us to
obeying the entire Jewish Law.  Acts 15 and Paul's letters are quite
clear on that.  I think even the SDA's accept it.  The disagreement is
on where the Bible would have us place the line.

By the way, Protestants do give authority to the church, in matters
that are not dictated by God.  That's why churches are free to
determine their own liturgies, church polity, etc.  If you accept that
the Sabbath is not binding on Christians, then the day of worship
falls into the category of items on which individual Christians or
(since worship is by its nature a group activity) churches are free to
decide.


   >	The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes
   >out of nowhere to contend.  The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,
   >not the Cubs.

   Sorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with "no talent"
   over 162 games.

Well, with players, certainly.  However, it is quite possible to win
it all with no managerial talent.  Cf. Blue Jays, 1992.

David


Hey folks!

Just moments ago, I uploaded the Bungee Jumper After Dark module that
was widely talked about on here some time ago.

It's at ftp.cica.indiana.edu, in /pub/pc/win3/uploads, titled simply
bungee.zip.

Be sure to set your ftp connection to binary mode before downloading.
If you have any other After Dark shareware/freeware modules, please
upload them too.  The more the merrier.

Andrew
--


My boss is considering the purchase of a Powerbook or Duo. He is leaning
towards a 180, because of the math coprocessor (for Mathematica), but would
get a Duo if he could find a Mini-Dock with a coprocessor. Have any
third-parties announced such a beast?


HMMM... that brings up a neat idea.

Unfortunately, it's SOOO neat, I think I ought to patent it.

So I can't tell you about it.

Sorry.  :-)

	-Bill

Copyright 1993 William S. Yerazunis (aka Crah the Merciless)
All rights reserved, no responsibility taken.


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                     mike_johnson@mentorg.com


: The next question is how shall I carry the thing on the bike, given
: the metal frame and all. I have a big backrest (approx 12" high) and
: was hoping that I would be able to bungee cord the backpack to the backrest.

: Any one have any experiences on such experimentation?

Put the pack on the pillion and bungee it to the backrest.
If that is not possible then you should be able to bungee it behind the
backrest, just make sure it doesn't bend or break anything like the rear
fender or turnsignals.
--


Yes.  He thought about it.

Jack Waters II
DoD#1919


Other idea for old space crafts is as navigation beacons and such..
Why not?? If you can put them on "safe" "pause" mode.. why not have them be
activated by a signal from a space craft (manned?) to act as a naviagtion
beacon, to take a directional plot on??


The Duo Powerbooks seem to park the heads after a few seconds of
inactivity... is that builtin into the drive logic or is it being
programmed via software, any way to tune the iddle timeout that
makes the heads park themselves... I think the heads are being
parked since after a few seconds of inactivity you can hear the
clunk of heads parking.


Hi...

	THe best sound conversion program I've ever seen is SoundTool, which
is shareware from Germany.  I found a copy somewhere in wuarchive.wustl.edu
a long time ago, but I don't know offhand what directory it was under.  It's
GREAT at converting files of all types, including Mac, NExT, Sun, and
various PC formats... It's also a great player and editor, with various
special effects that put Windows' Sound Recorder to shame.  It requires a
driver for various sound cards... The only builtin one is for the pc speaker
(and even that sounds pretty good), but if you're just using it to convert
things, you can convert them in SoundTool and then play them in Sound
Recorder.

Give it a try!

Bret


I am upgrading my computer systems to FAX modems, and am selling my
2 2400/1200/300 baud USR modems without FAX or error correction.

One is internal ($25), the other is external ($30).

Both are U.S. Robotics (the highest rated modem manufacturer).

Add $4 shipping or pick up in the Washington DC area.

Offers welcome.  (I would trade either for a 1x3x70ns SIMM.)


	So, if I were to assert that there are no thousand year old
invisible pink unicorns* residing in my walls, I need to support this with
evidence? I think the _lack_ of evidence shall suffice.

	* Who happen to like listening to satanic messages found in playing
Beethoven's 45th symphony backwards.
---

        "FBI officials said cult leader David Koresh may have
         forced followers to remain as flames closed in. Koresh's
         armed guard may have injected as many as 24 children with
         poison to quiet them."

        -

        "And God saw everything he had made, and, behold, in was very
         good."


Apple doesn't make such a card, though I suppose a third party could.  One
big problem is that there isn't room for a standard NuBus card inside the
LC III.

noah


A month?  Well, he did have a short career--compared to what one might
have expected for such a highly touted prospect--due to being injury prone,
overweight, and having no work ethic.  But he certainly did not
suffer from being rushed to the bigs.


I think its an attempt to show lives_saved v lives_lost; all other
 gun related crimes don't result in lives_lost.  On the other hand,
 its impossible to know how many of the successful self defenses
 prevented lives from being lost.  In other words, the lives_lost
 is pretty clear [its the homicide and non negligent manslaughter
 number], while the lives saved is some percentage of the successful
 self defenses.  Clearly that percentage doesn't have to be real
 high to show that lives_saved > lives_lost.

As a semi-related point, check out Kleck's "Point Blank".  I believe
 it goes into some related areas; it also is well written and informative.


What is happening is this:
1) You turn the TV on.
2) The horizontal output begins normal operation.  This powers up the
   high voltage and most of the rest of the circuitry.
3) A problem is sensed and the horizontal oscillator shuts down.
4) After it powers down the cycle repeats.


Are you making a meta-argument here?  In any case, you are wrong.
Think of those invisible pink unicorns.

I was responding to the "historical accuracy... of Biblical claims",
of which the existence of Jesus is only one, and one that was not even
mentioned in my post.

Wrong.  That was exactly the issue.  Go back and read the context
included within my post, and you'll see what I mean.

Now that I've done you the kindness of responding to your questions,
please do the same for me.  Answer the Charley Challenges.  Your claim
that they are of the "did not!/ did so!" variety is a dishonest dodge
that I feel certain fools only one person.


The short answer seems to be: "I don't".
The particular package (wscrawl) seems to reset *all* its defaults
if *any* of them are missing from the .Xdefaults file.  Once I added
the missing ones to the .Xdefaults file, the problem goes away.

-Kevin


Hi there,

when I run Disk First Aid on my external hard drive (Quantum LPS 240) I get the followinf
message: Error -535: Missing thread record (TarID=31015; TarBlock 416)
Disk First Aid is not able to fix this problem, Norton Utils doesn't find it at all.
When I use Norton Disk editor to look at TarBlock 416 I can read something like "DirReservedArea"

My question: How can I get rid of this error (without reformatting of course)


There is a (likely) veto proof majority in the house.  The Senate,
unfortunately, is a different story.  The Lt.Gov. has vowed that the bill will
not be voted on, and he has the power to do it.  In addition, the Senate is a
much smaller, and more readily manipulated body.

On ther other hand, the semi-automatic ban will likely not live, as at least
fifty per cent of the house currently opposes it, and it is VERY far down in
the bill order in the Senate (I believe it will be addressed after the CCW
bill).

And I thought my TX Political Science class was a waste of time!


  >Have you head of small claims.  You may have to put money up
  >front for the filing fees, and then possibly having the local
  >sheriff of his/her city to deliver the bad news.  In the end
  >the other party will end up paying for his/her mistake with
  >interest from the time of the filing to the pay date of the
  >defendent

I think the problem with small claims court is that you have to go to
the location of the person you're taking action against.  It seems to
me the time and money involved in travelling out there (unless this
person is close to you) wouldn't be worth it for a small claim.
It really depends on how much money you're out.

If I am wrong about any of this, someone please correct me! ;)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth Simon               Dept of Sociology, Indiana University
Internet: KSSIMON@INDIANA.EDU              Bitnet: KSSIMON@IUBACS


try comp.dcom -  I was reading a thread a while back about an 800 number
that you could dial.  worked here.  It was a sales line for sprint I think
telling you that you could have all your customers numbers using there
ANI, then it told you your number.  Should work with any modern switch.

mycal


Hi Christian friends,

My name is Joel, I have a sister who's 25th birthday is tomorrow.....She
used to be on fire for the Lord, but somehow, for some reason, she
became cold....she don't want to associate anymore with her old
christian friends.........so I thought maybe some of you could help her
out again by sending her a postcard or card with a little message of
encouragement.....hand written is okay....her address is 3150 Hobart
Ave. San Jose Ca. 95127...........

Thank you and God Bless.

PS: Jesus Christ is LORD!!!!!!!!


Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it?
I

mean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it,
as

is Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell

Evans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in
Eddie

Murray and Jeff Reardon.

     Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody
giving

Hall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards,
marginal.

Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both

shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.

     Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors
so

liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if
something

isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When

certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential

candidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to

the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?


that's okay, he's perfectly welcome to come to Scotland you know ;-)


In <julkunen.734086202@messi.uku.fi> julkunen@messi.uku.fi (Antero

It's got potential.  Instead of *.chemistry, how about splitting the
classification into *.biochemistry (which are probably the topics
you're thinking of) and *.pharmaceutical (which otherwise might end up
in *.(bio)chemistry)?

(This is separate from the issue of whether there is sufficient potential
news volume to support either or both groups.)

I'll add 'em to my medical/health newsgroup wish list (which I'm looking
forward to posting and discussing -- but not for another 10 days or so).


> MOTOROLA EXPO VHF 2WATT/2CHAN. HT--------[new]-------$1200.00
> Would like $400, or BEST OFFER!!!

I'm sure that the Motorola is worth it, but this kind of thing
has always mystified me.  $400 is the price of very good, new
dual-band, fully synthasized HT.  Yes, yes, I know Motorola
HTs are bullet-proof, unbreakable, plutonium-based
indestructable -- you can drive a tank over them and they'll
still work.  But just how often does that come up?  Why are hams
willing (and they *are*) to spend the price of a synthaszied
dual-bander for a 2-channel xtal rig???  Note: this is not
a flame; as I said, I'm sure this is a good deal for this rig.
I'm just amazed that it *is* a good deal.  I would have guessed
that a 2 channel xtal rig could never be worth as much as a dual-
bander to a ham, no matter how durable. Just shows you how wrong
*I* can be.

Mike, N4PDY


When your helmetted nogin hits an immoveabe object, there are only four things
to dissipate the energy: the immoveable object, the helmet shell, the helmet
liner, the rider's head, the rider's ego (ok, five). Assuming that the helmet/
head assembly takes the same impact, if the shell cracks in one case, then in
the other the liner must be dented, or the head gets jiggled. If it's the
the liner that's dented, the helmet is just as toast as if the shell were
cracked, it won't absorb energy form an impact in that area. If it's the head
that's getting jiggled, maybe the new gear isn't of as high quality after all?


This announcement is somewhat disconcerting; it doesn't do anything
evil in and of itself, but bodes badly for the future of open
algorithms and standards in information security.  I won't start
panicking until/unless DES or RSA or stuff like that is prohibited, but
I'm a little anxious.  (No doubt it won't be long before someone posts
explaining how this just a small part of some far-ranging and
long-lived NSA-PKP-IRS-FBI-CIA-HandgunControlInc-Clinton conspiracy to
subvert freedom, democracy, and mathematics.)  My feeling is that the
administration probably isn't that worried about things like DES and
RSA and PGP and RIPEM, since they'll never be used by a group much
wider than us computer geeks.

The fact that this just came out now suggests one of two things:

1.  The NSA has been working on this for a long time, and it only just
    now happened to be ``ready'' to release to the world at this time.

2.  The NSA has been working on this for a long time, but wasn't able
    to get the Bush administration to go along with this plan.  (I
    find it unlikely that this would have been because of a sympathy
    for the unescrowed use of cryptography; more likely the
    administration felt that even escrowed, secret-algorithm and, for
    all we know, trivially breakable cryptography should not be made
    widely available.)

Thus said clipper@csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (Clipper Chip Announcement):

The majority of the discussion involving this "Clipper Chip" seems to
pertain to the encryption of telephone conversations.  Does anyone
know if that means this chip is designed to work primarily with analog
signals?  The language sort of suggests this, but it's hard to say.

The main thing I just don't get is whether this chip implements
symmetric or asymmetric cryptographic techniques.  Anybody know?

I'm guessing symmetric, but they don't get very clear about it.  If it
is symmetric, how is it useful for anything other than link-level
encryption with an identical chip at each end?  How can you negotiate
a per-session key using symmetric cryptography without using a trusted
third party who knows your key?  (Or does it even use a per-session
key?)

If it's asymmetric, what about PKP's patents, which they claim cover
all methods of doing asymmetric cryptography?  Are they getting
royalties, or is hiding infringement the real reason for keeping the
algorithm secret? :-)


'SDPA.ORG' criminals/Nazis in action. Your fascist government got away with
the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men, women and children and is enjoying
the fruits of that genocide. And your criminal organization will not get away
with the genocide's cover-up. In June 1915, a major uprising took place in
Sebinkarahisar under the leadership of the famous Nazi Boyadjian. The Moslem
districts were burnt down. Hundreds of soldiers and gendarmerie were killed
and hundreds of civilians also perished.

   Armenians first of all occupied the Talori region, which included
   the villages of Siner, Simai, Gulli-Guzat, Ahi, Hedenk, Sinank,
   Ekind, Effard, Musson, Etek, Akcesser. Leaving their wives,
   children and property in these inaccessible spots, the Armenians
   joined forces with other armed bands coming from the Silvan
   districts in the plain of Mus, after which the whole body of
   3000 men gathered in the Andok Mt. Five or six hundred wished
   to surround Mus, and started off by attacking the Delican tribe to
   the south of the city. They slaughtered a number of the tribe and
   seized their goods. The religious beliefs of the Muslims who fell
   into their hands were derided and disparaged, and the Muslims
   themselves murdered in the most frightful manner. The rebels
   also attacked the regular troops in the vicinity of Mus, but the
   large numbers of the regular forces prevented them from
   occupying the city.

   The rebels joined the bandits in the Andok Mts., carrying out
   the most frightful massacres and looting among the tribes of the
   neighbourhood. They burned Omer Agha's nephew alive. They
   raped a number of Turkish women at a spot three or four hours'
   distance from Gulli-Guzat and then strangled them.

   At the beginning of August the rebels attacked the Faninar,
   Bekiran and Badikan tribes, perpetrating equally horrible
   atrocities. The rebels in the villages of Yermut and Ealigernuk in
   the nahiye of Cinan in the kaza of Cal attacked the Kurds in the
   neighbourhood, as well as the villages of Kaisser and Catcat.

   Towards the end of August, the Armenians attacked the
   Kurds in the vicinity of Mus and burned down three or four
   villages, including Gulli-Guzat. As for the 3000 rebels in Talori,
   they continued to spread death and destruction among the
   Muslims and other Christian communities, refusing to lay down
   their arms.

Source: Uras, Esat: The Armenians in History. Documentary Publications
(Istanbul), 1988.

p. 954.

"In his speech given at the Sivas Congress, Mustafa Kemal once again drew
 a picture of the  country under occupation:

 In the East, the Armenians are making preparations for advancing to the
 River Halys (Kizilirmak), and have already started a policy of massacring
 the Moslem population."

pp. 966-967.

"The situation of the southern provinces of Turkey after the signing of the
 Mudros Armistice is described by Ataturk in his speech:

 The Armenians in the south, armed by foreign troops and encouraged by the
 protection they enjoyed, molested the Mohammedans of their district. They
 pursued a relentless policy of murder and extinction everywhere. This was
 responsible for the tragic incident at Maras....the Armenians had completely
 destroyed an old Mohammedan town like Maras by their artillery and
 machine-gun fire.

 They killed thousands of innocent and defenceless women and children. The
 Armenians were the instigators of the atrocities, which were unique in
 history.

Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
        "Document No: 15," Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 113, Drawer
        No: 3, File No: 520, Section No: 2024, Contents No: 11-1; 11-3.
        (19 Feb 330 '4 March 1915', District Governor Kemal)

"List of male inhabitants of Mergehu Village murdered or annihilated
 with the utmost savagery by Armenians:

 Names				Method of Annihilation
 -----				----------------------
Haci Ibrahim, son of Abdi	Bullets and bayonet
Abdi, son of Haci Ibrahim	Bullets and bayonet
Reso, son of Abdi		Beaten and cut into pieces
Sado, son of Omer		Beaten and cut into pieces
Aso, son of Reso		Beaten and cut into pieces
Kulu, son of Canko		Stabbed in the eye with a bayonet
Musa, son of Canko		Bayonet in his eye
Emin, son of Molla Hamit	Bayonet in his eye
Molla Abdullah, son of Hamit	Bayonet in his eye
Ibo, son of Haci		Bayonet in his eye
Sado, son of Haci		Bayonet in his eye
Abdullah, son of Canko		Slaughtered
Ibo, son of Ahmet		Abdomen ripped open
Ismail, son of Ibo		Burnt in fire
Musto, son of Ozu		Bullets
Mahmut, son of Seyyo		Slaughtered
Kocak, son of Birro		Bullets
Musto, son of Husnu		Bullets
Uso, son of Alo			Bullets
Maksut, son of Peri		Bullets
Haci, son of Peri		Bullets
Mehmet, son of Hasanali		Bayonet
Ibo, son of Hasanali	 	Bayonet
Abdo, son of Mehmed		Bayonet
Molla Suleyman			Burnt in oven
Mazgi, son of Abdullah		Stabbed in abdomen by bayonet
Sulis, son of Hasan		Bullets
Mahmo, son of Mehmet		Stabbed with a dagger
Murat, son of Hasan		Stabbed with a dagger
Uso, son of Avci		Blinded with a bayonet
Lesko, son of Mehmet		Stabbed with a dagger
Abdullah, son of Kasim		Bullets
Coban Abdullah			Bullets
Seymo, son of Mumin		Bullets
Muammer, son of Reso		Bullets
Paso, son of Merzi		Bullets
Gulu, son of Bitor		Bullets
Murat, son of Yusuf		Bullets and bayonet
Cedo, son of Haci Ibrahim	Bullets and bayonet
Faki Mehmet			Bullets and bayonet
Silo, son of Abdulcebbar	Bullets and bayonet

 List of massacred females from the same village:

Kasi, daughter of Huso and
wife of Haci Ibrahim		Bullets
Fati, daughter of Isa,
wife of Aduz			Bullets
Zeresan, daughter of Amat,
wife of Reso			Bayonet
Gullu, daughter of Iyso		Cutting off her breasts
Sulnu, daughter of Sulo,	Ripping open her abdomen and burning
wife of Ibo			her baby in oven
Fatma, daughter of Ibo 		Slaughtered and burnt in oven
Fidan hatun			Burnt in oven
Gulfizar, daughter of Hacihan,
wife of Musto			Slaughtered
Rahime, daughter of Mehmet,
wife of Halil			Bullets
Binefs, daughter of Haci Kerim,
wife of Suleyman		Burnt in oven
Mahiye, daughter of Ali,
wife of Sivno			Slaughtered
Hati, daughter of Haci,
wife of Ahmet         		Slaughtered
Hacer, daughter of Meho		Bullet and bayonet

 List of Females of the same village raped and murdered:

Nadire, daughter of Haci, wife of Suvis
Hani, daughter of Kulu, wife of Zerko
Zaliha, daughter of Telli, wife of Silo
Arap, daughter of Sami, wife of Hilo

 Wounded males and females of the same village:

 (a long list)

 List of massacred males and females at Istuci village:

Mikail, son of Alo		Bullets
Musto, son of Ismail		Bullets
Dervis, son of Maksut		Bullets
Ali, son of Nimet		Bayonet
Esat, son of Kelo		Bayonet and bullets
Isa, son of Nebi		Bayonet and bullets
Cevher, son of Gani		Beaten by rifle butt
Ziro, daughter of Hasan		Died from injuries
Hazal, daughter of Ali,
wife of Acem			Died from injuries
Hamsa, daughter of Huseyin,
wife of Huseyin			Died from injuries

 List of raped women at Istuci village in life:

Sabo, daughter of Maho		Virgin
Miri, other daughter of Maho	Virgin
Emine, daughter of Meho, wife
of Sofi Salih
Sahap, daughter of Ali, wife
of Nevruz
Gullu, daughter of Mahi		Virgin

 List of persons attacked by Armenian gangs:

 (a long list)"

Serdar Argic


I think that HCI people honestly believe that passing more gun control
laws will be in the best interests of public safety.  Why do I think
this?  Because I used to buy the HCI line.  During my freshman year (1987),
their line made so much sense -- only people who "need" guns should be
able to get them, and the people who "need" them are the police and
other elites.  Unfortunately for us, this position is highly emotional
and not well thought-out.  They never stop to think that HCI's position
basically says that the non-elite are incompetents (that's you and me,
folks!) and that the Second Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with
hunting or other "legitimate" uses (which excludes overthrowing tyrannical
governments and defending yourself when the police have proven they
can't protect you).

Every pro-control person I've talked to is always left  stumped when I
simply argue the facts of gun control (that it has yet to be proven to
lower crime rates) and weapons terminology (and I'm no expert -- but
explaining exactly how an "evil" semiautomatic weapon really works
does wonders).

I hvae personally found well-reasoned arguments to be most effective
against the emotional pro-control people.  The trick is to get them to
realize that the Second Amendment exists not for hunters but for the
oppressed and the terrorized.


No, not really. It may be that your winfile.ini has gotten corrupted for
some unknown reason. Have you tried re-creating it by either
1.exiting filemanager with the save setting option on when the status bar
is visible,
or
2.double clicking on the Control menu(the one with minimize and maximize
in in) when everything looks proper?

If you have, and it still doesn't work, you may want to delete your
winfile.ini and try one of these two saving procedures again to totally
recreate the file from scratch.

Good luck!

Mark Waschkowski


Would someone please send me James Oberg's email address, if he has
one and if someone reading this list knows it?  I wanted to send
him a comment on something in his terraforming book.

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu


I've got the same problem; I can't dig up any info on the jumper settings
on the hd 3.5" drives.

Can anyone recommend a reference book(s) on the subject, rather than a
"quick fix" type answer??  I was going to start hooking up things and
logging the results, but the prospect of a ten second smoke test deters
me...

Thanks, Kirk Cowen.


It is obvious that Mr. Cramer has the 'ability' to take the 'leap of faith'.
I have listened to several of the men involved in this study, and even they
claim that the men involved will not 'tell the whole truth'.

I put little value in extrapolating from these types of 'studies' or 'surveys',
they have limited subsets of individuals, and there is alot of skewing due
to improper selection methods, and the bias of the people involved in the
studies on both sides- subject and researcher.

Would you admit to be part of a group that was not very well liked?  Would
you admit to having had sex with other people at some considered abnormal
rate (this applies to heterosexual men).  In fact, as one gay man and one
straight man put it, "men lie about the number of partners, because that's
the thing to do"- our culture for the male almost requires this type of
response.  It may seem harmless and silly, but carries a large emotional
and mental price tag.


     Hey, *I* wasn't the one dancing and singing on Jan. 20, now
     WAS I?   I was roundly ridiculed for my "predictions".

     Sure they were easy.  TEll that to the other 43% of the people. :)

      Just WAIT until the see what Clinton has planned for
      their pension funds!  :)  This one doesn't take much thinking
       either.    Uncle Sam needs money, BAD, and pension funds got it.

      Well, they USED to have it.  Turns out the states  have been
      plundering state employee funds for the past 2-3 years.  ;)


I agree completely, but there was only a refund for people who bought the GC
with a Quadra. I have seen an alpha version of an extension from Apple called
8.24 GC QuickTime Video which offloads QuickTime compression/decompression
from the cpu to the AM29000 on the card. So it seems it can be done even though
in a developer article it states that the GC can't be programmed - but they
asked that any suggestions be sent in anyway...


Never said you didn't publish, merely that there is data you don't
publish,  and that no-one scoriates you for those cases.

IBM research  publishes plenty, it's why you ended up  with 2 Nobel
prizes in the last 10 years,  but that some projects are deemed
company confidential.  ATT Bell Labs,  keeps lots of stuff private,
Like Karamankars algorithm.  Private moeny is entitled to do what
it pleases, within the bounds of Law,  and For all the keepers of the
temple of SCience,  should please shove their pointy little heads
up their Conically shaped Posterior Orifices.

pat


I'm totally p*-o'd, too!  Vancouver-Winnipeg is great west-coast hockey -
fast-paced and loads of talent.  What I've seen so far is hardly
entertaining, with the exception of the odd shift every now & then (of
course I missed Calgary-LA & Pitts-Jersey...)

Amen...

That's cheaper than what I do - PHONE CALLS.  (There must be a better
system - one ring, Adams to Linden, he SCORES; two rings Bure rushes up
the ice, he SCORES, etc etc :-))


Well, most hangings are very quick and, I imagine, painless.

And, hangings and firing squads are allowed today, too.  And, if these
things were not considered cruel, then surely a medical execution
(painless) would not be, either.


Get Xarchie 2.0 instead.


I'm a biker and a dog-lover.

First and foremost, I want to mention some common sense.  If it's a choice
between injuring/killing a dog or getting yourself injured/killed, there is
only one rational decision.  Only the most insane animal rights kook would put
the dog first.

Second, it's useful to learn how to read a dog's body language.  How you react
to a dog who is chasing you because he thinks it's a game (and that you're
playing with him) is completely different from how you react to a dog which
has hostile intent.

Third, it's useful to learn how to present yourself to a dog.  Dogs are social
beasts, and recognize a domination/submission hierarchy.  To a dog, there are
two types of fellow-creatures; that which he dominates, and that which
dominate him.  You need to unambiguously represent yourself as being of the
latter class.  You are God: you are easily angered and your anger is terrible.
But God is also amused by one who properly submits to His dominance, and may
even on rare occasions dispense a kind word, a kind word, or even (oh joy oh
rapture unforeseen) A Dog Bisquit!

Now, how does that all relate to biking?  Well, first, it's a good idea to
assume that most dogs who chase motorcycles do so because they think it's a
game, and not out of overt hostility.  The MSF suggestion is a very good one;
when you see the dog coming, slow down so he determines a particular place of
interception.  Just before you (and he) reach that spot, punch the throttle so
that when he reaches it you're already long gone.  Dogs take a few seconds to
react to new input, and definitely cannot comprehend the acceleration that a
motorcycle is capable of.

With a hostile dog, or one which you repeatedly encounter, stronger measures
may be necessary.  This is the face off.  First -- and there is very important
-- make sure you NEVER face off a dog on his territory.  Face him off on the
road, not on his driveway.  If necessary, have a large stick, rolled up
newspaper, etc. (something the beast will understand is something that will
hurt him).  Stand your ground, then slowly advance.  Your mental attitude is
that you are VERY ANGRY and are going to dispense TERRIBLE PUNISHMENT.  The
larger the dog, the greater your anger.

Dogs will pick up anger, just as they can pick up fear.  And, since you and he
are not on his home territory, it may suddenly dawn on the dog that perhaps he
is on your territory, and that you are prepared to fight to the death.

Most dogs will decide that it is a good idea to retreat to their own territory
where there is at least a home advantage.  They'll also observe that you are
satisfied by that retreat (gesture of submission) and thus they have escaped
punishment.


Oops! Quite right. I got so busy that I saved Frank's last post back then,
intending to respond when I could, and I sort of forgot. I'll try to do it
soon if anyone's still interested, and probably even if they're not.

Well, yes, maybe I am. I'm trying to have people buy and take on my opinions,
thus causing said opinions to spread in time-honoured memetic virus mode until
the world is a veritable paradise. So how about it, folks? As they say over
here, You Know It Makes Sense.

Cheers

Simon


When is it did you say?  Well let me shell out here and run this
handy dandy program....

$ mlb -m pit phi

And the answer is:

           Monday,  5/10 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
          Tuesday,  5/11 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
        Wednesday,  5/12 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
           Friday,  6/25 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
         Saturday,  6/26 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:05 pm)
           Sunday,  6/27 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (11:35 am)
           Friday,  7/30 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
         Saturday,  7/31 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:05 pm)
           Sunday,  8/ 1 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (11:35 am)
           Monday,  9/27 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
          Tuesday,  9/28 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
        Wednesday,  9/29 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
         Thursday,  9/30 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)


In Detroit, the octopus is a symbol from the old days of the league. In
the era of the Original 6, four teams made the playoffs.  To win the Cup,
a team had to win two seven-game series - in other words it took 8
playoff wins to win the Cup.  The octopus (8 legs) has become a common
Detroit symbol.  Every year around playoff time people start sneaking
octopus (octopi?) into the Joe Louis Arena and throwing them onto the ice.


1993 World Championships in Germany:
 ====================================

 Group A results:

 SWEDEN - CANADA  1-4 (0-0,1-1,0-3)

 1st:
 2nd: CAN 0-1 Geoff Sanderson      (Kevin Dineen)                  7:24
      SWE 1-1 Patrik Juhlin        (Jan Larsson)                  15:23 (pp)
 3rd: CAN 1-2 Geoff Sanderson                                      5:54 (ps)
      CAN 1-3 Mike Gartner         (Greg Johnson,Adam Graves)     10:44
      CAN 1-4 Rod Brind'Amour      (Shayne Corson)                19:59

            Shots on goal:    Penalties:    Attendance:     Referee:
 Sweden     10 15 12 - 37     4*2min        6,500           Rob Hearn (USA)
 Canada     10 13  6 - 29     6*2min

 Bill Ranford stopped 36 shots to lead Canada to a 4-1 victory in a very well
 played game.

 The first period started with a give away from a Canadian defenseman and
 Rundqvist came in alone on Ranford but couldn't put the puck over a sliding
 Ranford. Later on, Kevin Dineen had a great opportunity but Soderstrom
 played very well too. Stefan Nilsson had a couple of great dekes and set up
 Jan Larsson but again Ranford came up big. Period ended scoreless but the edge
 to Sweden in creating more opportunities.
 Second period action saw Tommy Soderstrom making a GREAT save. Mark Recchi
 made a backhanded cross ice pass to Lindros, Eric one timed the puck but
 Soderstrom was there to make a glove hand save. At the 7-minute mark, Canada
 started applying pressure on the Swedes. Sanderson-Dineen-Brind'Amour worked
 hard and kept the puck in the Swedes' zone. Dineen gave the puck to Sanderson
 who skated around a screened Swedish defenseman, came in on Soderstrom and
 made a wrist shot that went it by Soderstrom's far post, 1-0 Canada.
 The Swedes picked up their game after that, and Peter Forsberg had a shot
 that hit Ranford's post (the inside), went parallel to the goal line and out.
 Then Gartner got a penalty and the Swedes a power play. Jan Larsson took
 a shot from the slot, Ranford gave a rebound to Larsson who saw Juhlin by
 the far post, passed the puck and Ranford was beat, 1-1.
 Third period started as the other periods, Swedes having most of the pressure
 but the Canadians always dangerous once they were close to the Swede goal.
 At 5:54, Canada created some great chances and Arto Blomsten was forced to
 cover the puck in the Swede goal crease since Soderstrom lost sight of it.
 That resulted in a penalty shot, since a defenseman can't cover the puck in
 the goal crease. Geoff Sanderson took the penalty shot (his first ever, he
 explained afterwards), and he put it low on Soderstrom's stick side, close
 to the post. Excellent penalty shot to give Canada a go ahead goal.
 Canada increased the lead on a very suspect offside, Gartner volleyed a
 bouncing puck past Soderstrom to make it 3-1. The Swedes ran out of gas
 then and couldn't produce as good scoring chances as they had for 2,5 periods.
 The 4-1 goal came with only 1 second left, Rod Brind'Amour scoring on a
 rebound from Soderstrom, where the Swedish defense already had their minds
 in the dressing room.

 A very good game (the best in the WC so far?), with both goalies playing
 great. Soderstrom best player in Sweden, but Ranford even played better
 than Soderstrom, that tells you something about Ranford. Probably the best
 goalie in the world, were some comments after the game.
 Canada played a very disciplined defense, Ranford pointed out that it is
 easy to play well with a good defense. Lindros played A LOT and played well,
 Sanderson naturally game hero with two goals.

 The Forsberg-Naslund-Bergqvist line Sweden's best along with Larsson-Juhlin-
 Nilsson. Swedish defense played well, 197 cm 104 kg Peter Popovic had the
 task of neutralizing 192 cm 107 kg Eric Lindros, and managed this very well.
 Ranger defenseman Peter Andersson finally got to go to the WC, and considering
 that he landed in Germany just a few hours before the game, he played very
 well. Swedish coach Curt Lundmark was irritated after the game, partly because
 of the Swedes inability to score, and partly because of the linesman's mistake
 on the 1-3 goal.

 Lines information follows further below.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 ITALY - SWITZERLAND  1-0 (0-0,1-0,0-0)

 1st:
 2nd: ITA 1-0 Orlando          15:47
 3rd:

 Penalties: ITA 10*2min, SWI 8*2min
 Referee: Anton Danko, Slovakia
 Attendance: 3,500

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Group B results:

 CZECH REPUBLIC - GERMANY  5-0 (0-0,3-0,2-0)

 1st:
 2nd: CZE 1-0 Kamil Kastak        1:51
      CZE 2-0 Jiri Dolezal       12:26
      CZE 3-0 Petr Hrbek         19:10
 3rd: CZE 4-0 Radek Toupal        8:28
      CZE 5-0 Josef Beranek      17:07

 Penalties: CZE 7*2min, GER 6*2min 1*5min 1*10min game penalty
 Referee: Darren Loraas, Canada
 Attendance: 10,200

 The Czechs were clearly better than the Germans, and the German crowd
 showed their discontent by throwing in stuff on the ice after a while.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 FINLAND - USA  1-1 (0-0,1-0,0-1)

 1st:
 2nd: FIN 1-0 Jarkko Varvio      4:00
 3rd: USA 1-1 Ed Olczyk          4:26

 Penalties: FIN 7*2min, USA 6*2min
 Referee: Valeri Bokarev, Russia
 Attendance: 2,800

 I hope some Finns can provide information from this game (I didn't see the
 whole game). The Finns took the lead on a Jarkko Varvio slap shot from the
 blue line, and a soft goal for an unscreened Mike Richter.
 As far as the play in the second period goes, the Finns seemed to have the
 most control, so a 1-0 lead was warranted as I saw it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

		   SWEDEN			   CANADA

 Goaltender:	30 Tommy Soderstrom		30 Bill Ranford

 Defense:	 8 Kenneth Kennholt		 5 Norm Maciver
		14 Fredrik Stillman		24 Dave Manson

		 3 Peter Popovic		25 Geoff Smith
		55 Peter Andersson		19 Brian Benning

		 7 Arto Blomsten		 6 Terry Carkner
		28 Roger Akerstrom		 3 Garry Galley

						 4 Derek Mayer

 Forwards:	29 Mikael Renberg		15 Dave Gagner
		 9 Thomas Rundqvist		27 Adam Graves
		34 Mikael Andersson		22 Mike Gartner

		19 Markus Naslund		20 Paul Kariya
		21 Peter Forsberg		88 Eric Lindros
		18 Jonas Bergqvist		 8 Mark Recchi

		 5 Patrik Juhlin		17 Rod Brind'Amour
		20 Jan Larsson			 9 Shayne Corson
		 4 Stefan Nilsson		11 Kevin Dineen

		22 Charles Berglund		10 Geoff Sanderson
		26 Michael Nylander		12 Greg Johnson
		(34 Andersson/18 Bergqvist)	14 Brian Savage

						16 Kelly Buchberger


I believe you are right.  Both SCSI and SCSI-2 support 8 devices on the bus
(normally that would be the host controller and 7 targets) each of which
may have up to 8 logical units (LUNs).


Also, has anyone heard any rumors that the new docks (the ones with the CPU
:-) will be better designed that this first batch?  I love my Duo, but
installing cards in the dock is not much fun.

-Bob


It helps to have some idea of the source of the distortion - or at least
a reasonable model of the class of distortion.  Below is a very short
description of the process which we use; if you have further questions,
feel free to poke me via e-mail.

================================================================
*ASSUME: locally smooth distortion

0) Compute the Delaunay Triangulation of your (x,y) points.  This
   defines the set of neighbors for each point.  If your data are
   not naturally convex, you may have very long edges on the convex hull.
   Consider deleting these edges.

1) Now, there are two goals:

    a) move the DistortedData(x,y) to the Reference(x,y)
    b) keep the Length(e) (as measured from the current (x,y)'s)
       as close as possible to the DigitizedLength(e) (as measured
       using the digitized (x,y)'s).

2) For every point, compute a displacement based on a) and b).  For
   example:

    a) For (x,y) points for which you know the Reference(x,y), you
       can move alpha0*(Reference(x,y) - Current(x,y)).   This will
       slowly move the DistortedReference(x,y) towards the
       Reference(x,y).
    b) For all other points, examine the current length of each edge.
       For each edge, compute a displacement which would make that edge
       the correct length (where "correct" is the DigitizedLength).
       Take the vector sum of these edge displacements, and move the
       point alpha1*SumOfEdgeDisplacements.  This will keep the
       triangulated mesh consistent with your Digitized mesh.

3) Iterate 2) until you are happy (for example, no point moves very much).

alpha0 and alpha1 need to be determined by experimentation.   Consider
how much you believe the Reference(x,y) - i.e., do you absolutely insist
on the final points exactly matching the References, or do you want to
balance some error in matching the Reference against changes in length
of the edges.

WARNING: there are a couple of geometric invariants which must be
observed (essentially, you can't allow the convex hull to change, and
you can't allow triangles to "fold over" neighboring triangles.  Both of
these can be handled either by special case checks on the motion of
individual points, or by periodically re-triangulating the points (using
the current positions - but still calculating DigitizedLength from the
original positions.  When we first did this, the triangulation time was
prohibitive, so we only did it once.  If I were motivated to try and
change code that has been working in production mode for 5 years, I
*might* go back and re-triangulate on every iteration.  If you have more
compute power than you know what to do with, you might consider having
every point interact with every other point....but first read up on
linear solutions to the n-body problem.

There are lots of papers in the last 10 years of SIGGRAPH proceedings on
springs, constraints,  and energy calculations which are relevant.  The
above method is described, in more or less detail in:

@inproceedings{Sloan86,
author="Sloan, Jr., Kenneth R. and David Meyers and Christine A.~Curcio",
title="Reconstruction and Display of the Retina",
booktitle="Proceedings: Graphics Interface '86 Vision Interface '86",
address="Vancouver, Canada",
pages="385--389",
month="May",
year=1986  }

@techreport{Curcio87b,
author="Christine A.~Curcio and Kenneth R.~Sloan and David Meyers",
title="Computer Methods for Sampling, Reconstruction, Display, and
Analysis of Retinal Whole Mounts",
number="TR 87-12-03",
institution="Department of Computer Science, University of Washington",
address="Seattle, WA",
month="December",
year=1987  }

@article{Curcio89,
author="Christine A.~Curcio and Kenneth R.~Sloan and David Meyers",
title="Computer Methods for Sampling, Reconstruction, Display, and
Analysis of Retinal Whole Mounts",
journal="Vision Research",
volume=29,
number=5,
pages="529--540",
year=1989  }


 I know that there wasn't other games on the schedule, but ESPN sometimes
shows classic games from previous season to fill in the time slot.


If you're talking about this intellectual engagement of revelation, well,
it's obviously a risk one takes.

I'm not an objectivist, so I'm not particularly impressed with problems of
conceptualization.  The problem in this case is at least as bad as that of
trying to explain quantum mechanics and relativity in the terms of ordinary
experience.  One can get some rough understanding, but the language is, from
the perspective of ordinary phenomena, inconsistent, and from the
perspective of what's being described, rather inexact (to be charitable).

An analogous situation (supposedly) obtains in metaphysics; the problem is
that the "better" descriptive language is not available.

This word "reliable" is essentially meaningless in the context-- unless you
can show how reliability can be determined.


I look at zApp and really liked it. However, I think you should
wait for version 2.0 (I think it will be out soon).


Hi,

I have a problem when using subscripts with MSWord.  The
problem is the subscripted characters get cut off on the display,
but print out ok.  Anyone know how to fix the subscripts so
I can see them on the screen?

Many thanks,


I happen to be a big fan of Jayson Stark.  He is a baseball writer for the
Philadelphia Inquirer.  Every tuesday he writes a "Week in Review" column.
He writes about unusual situations that occured during the week.  Unusual
stats.  He has a section called "Kinerisms of the Week" which are stupid
lines by Mets brodcaster Ralph Kiner.  Every year he has the LGTGAH contest.
That stands for "Last guy to get a hit."  He also writes for Baseball
America.  That column is sort of a highlights of "Week in Review."  If you
can, check his column out sometime.  He might make you laugh.

Rob Koffler


"Thinking if I could see, I would believe. Then someone said


I would like to sell some software. Shipping is $3 per order - 1 or more
games in the continental U.S.  $6 to Canada.  Contact me for shipping
to other locations.

Contraption Zack                                $20
	Perfect condition. Unregistered & all docs/disks/packaging
	A 3-D puzzle game with great animated graphics.  Your tools for
	fixing up a manufacturing plant are hidden throughout the levels
	and you must solve puzzles to get the tools and then use the tools
	to fix the machines.  The levels are HUGE and span many screens.
	The graphics are cartoony and humorous.  (256 color VGA,MCGA,
	AdLib,Soundblaster,Roland,3.5")

Legend of Kyrandia                              $30
	Perfect condition. Unregistered & all docs/disks/packaging
	An adventure where you are the unknowing heir to the throne of
	the kingdom of Kyrandia.  An evil jester has murdered your parents,
	the king and queen, and attempted to take control of the kingdom,
	only to be thwarted by a spell cast upon him by your grandfather
	and three other magic users.  You must travel to find each of the
	magic users to gain use of an amulet that will help you to defeat
	the jester.  Beautiful graphics and a great soundtrack. (VGA,MCGA,
	Adlib,Sound Blaster,SoundBlaster Pro,MT-32/LAPC-1,3.5")

Spirit of Excalibur by Virgin Mastertronic      $15
	Good condition. All docs/disks/packaging.
	A fantasy game combining Role-Playing, adventure, and combat
	simulation.  You are the Heir to the throne of Britain after Arthur
	has died.  You must re-unite the land under your rule and then
	defend it against an invading army from the north. (EGA, Tandy, MCGA,
	VGA, Sound cards, 5.25")

Loom                                            $15
	Perfect condition.  Unregistered & all docs/disks/packaging.
	Received a Computer Gaming World Award for Artistic achievement.
	An adventure game where you play the role of a young weaver of
	musical spells.  You must save your fellow weavers from oblivion
	by traveling through the land, casting spells, learning new spells
	befriending people you meet, and foiling an evil plot.  All
	point and click -- no typing.  Every action in the game involves
	casting your musical spells. (VGA,EGA,CGA,MCGA,TANDY,AdLib,CMS sound,
	5.25")

Dark Seed					$35
	Perfect condition, used very little. Unregistered & all docs/disks/
	packaging.  An adventure based on the surrealistic and macabre
	artwork of H.R. Giger -- the inspiration for Alien, Alien III, and
	Poltergeist II.  You have just bought an old victorian house
	at a bargain in a secluded town.  You find that there is a portal
	to a dark, sinister world in your house and a plot against the
	world as you know it.  You must save yourself and your world from
	a horrible fate.  Gorgeous and Gory high resolution graphics.
	(VGA,Adlib,SoundBlaster,3.5")


To clarify:

VC++ *is* considered an upgrade for C7.  There will be no product
called C 8.0 (although the command-line compiler of VC++ lists its
version as 8.00).  C7 is not a "DOS"-only product -- it is a C/C++
compiler capable of producing executables for DOS or Windows, as is
VC++ (Pro. Ed.).  The (significant) difference is that VC++ comes with
many Windows-hosted tools (ide, etc) which assist developers in
creating Windows executables much more quickly (basically by
automating the thousands of lines of boilerplate code).  Initial
impressions have been very favorable.

Everyone who is a registered user of C7 should have received a
considerable amount of info regarding the specifics of C7. If you
haven't, call Microsoft and I'm sure they'd be happy to send you some!


[...]

  Who makes them forget and destroy all copies of the key once they've
decided you're not a criminal today?  Just curious.
------- Any views expressed are those of myself and not my employer. --------
Steven C. Johnson, WB3IRU / VK2GDS      |
TRW                                     | johnson@trwacs.fp.trw.com
FP1 / 3133                              |         [129.193.172.90]
1 Federal Systems Park Drive            | Phone:        +1 (703) 968.1000
Fairfax, Virginia  22033-4412  U.S.A.   | Fax:          +1 (703) 803.5189


I don't have nor Imagine nor Real 3d, but as old
Amiga user I think you should take a look also to
Real 3d 2.0 for the Amiga. I saw Imagine 2.0 on the
Amiga for a long time at my friend's home, and
I've seen R3D 2.0 in action at Bit.Movie 93 in Riccione,
Italy (an Italian Computer Graphics Contest).
Many professionals using 3d Studio on PC, SoftImage
for Silicon Graphics and Imagine on the Amiga were
*VERY IMPRESSED* by the power of this programs.
Sorry, I've lost the posting with full description
of features of this great program.

For more informations give a look in comp.sys.amiga.graphics.

Representative of Activa International told me that
it will be out in 2 weeks for the Amiga and that
PC MS-Windows, Silicon Indigo and Unix version are
under development.

Ciao,
	Sergio


Since I repost this message again for the second time, I hope to hear from
some folks on this topic.  Please reply.

Regards,


I don't know how to reach Serdar, but you might be able to reach his
sysadmin by email, phone, or snail-mail.

Here is information from rs.internic.net:

Ahmet Cosar (ANATOLIA-DOM)
   1530 S. 6th St.
   Suite C705
   Minneapolis, Minnesota, 55454

   Domain Name: ANATOLIA.ORG

   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Cosar, Ahmet  (AC234)  cosar@ANATOLIA.ORG
      612-376-7873

And here is what "finger cosar@umn.edu" gets you:

            name: Ahmet Cosar-1
            info: Last registered 1993 Winter Qtr
Internet mailbox: cosa0001@student.tc.umn.edu
   other mailbox: PROFS: COSA0001@UMNTCML
  postal address: 1530 So 6th St Apt C705
                  Minneapolis
                  MN 55454
         surname: Cosar
       telephone: +1 612-376-7873
           title: Grad
          userid: cosa0001
   X.400 mailbox: /G=Ahmet/S=Cosar-1/OU=mail/O=tc/PRMD=umn.edu/ADMD= /C=us/


They certainly are until the Arabs make peace.  Only the most leftist/Arabist
lunatics call upon Israel to withdraw now.  Most moderates realize that an
Israeli withdrawl will be based on the Camp David/242/338/Madrid formulas
which make full peace a prerequisite to territorial concessions.


HI,
    Recently, when I run the Norton Disk surface test, I realize a slow
down in harddisk accessing.  At begining of the test, the harddisk will
be checked at the speed that usually is.  As the surface test scaned
half way through my harddisk, a tremendous slow down occured.  The
expected time for operation will jump from 3 to 6 minutes.  I try to use
some of the harddisk tools to check if there is any physical damage to
my harddisk and report always turn out to be none.  The surface test
only slow down for a certain section of the disk and turn back to the
original speed after it gets over the section.  I am wondering whether
it is a harddisk problem or some other problems. Anyway help or comment
will be appriciate....
                                                 Shane Cheney Wang


Hi!

I am looking for ftp sites (where there are freewares or sharewares)
for Mac. It will help a lot if there are driver source codes in those
ftp sites. Any information is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


Contact Circuit Cellar Inc., 4 Park St. - Suite 12, Vernon, CT 06066
(203)875-2751, FAX (203)872-2204 and inquire about HAL-4 EEG Biofeedback
Brainwave Analyzer.

In addition, if you want to build your own system from board-level compo-
nents (biosignal amplifiers, analog isolators and isolated multiplexers)
you can contact The Davron Group,P.O. Box 237, Deerfield, IL  60015
FAX (708)948-9290.

- David


It's one of those animals you dance with.
But seriously, I saw this video for sale brand new at Palmer Video
for $9 + tx.   I guess if I could resell them for $12 I would dance
like a Wovie.


Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap
a harvest if we do not give up.


Hi, I have a trident TVGA-8900 video card and need the updated
drivers for Win3.1 where can I get them from an ftp site.

					Thanks


I agree, which is why I've asked for help with it.

The reason I'm working on this list is because I've recently had one
too many Christians tell me "the Bible contains no contradictions
whatsoever."  They believe that it's true, and that it describes
reality perfectly, and even predicts history before it happens.

Before I can carry on any sort of meaningful conversation with these
people, I've got to SHOW them, with concrete evidence, that the Bible
is not nearly as airtight as they thought.  I hope to do that with
this list.

Specifically: when I bring up the fact that Genesis contains two
contradictory creation stories, I usually get blank stares or flat
denials.  I've never had a fundamentalist acknowledge that there are
indeed two different accounts of creation.


THE WHITE HOUSE

                    Office of the Press Secretary

  _______________________________________________________________

  For Immediate Release	   	     	           April 14, 1993

                 TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT
                        TO THE SPEAKER OF THE
                    HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND
               THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE OF THE SENATE

                           April 13, 1993

  Dear Mr. Speaker:      (Dear Mr. President:)

  As part of my continuing effort to keep the Congress fully
  informed, I am providing this report, consistent with section 4
  of the War Powers Resolution, to advise you of actions that I
  have ordered in support of the United Nations efforts in
  Bosnia-Herzegovina.

  Beginning with U.N. Security Council Resolution 713 of
  September 25, 1991, the United Nations has been actively
  addressing the crisis in the former Yugoslavia.  The Security
  Council acted in Resolution 781 to establish a ban on all
  unauthorized military flights over Bosnia-Herzegovina.  There
  have, however, been blatant violations of the ban, and villages
  in Bosnia have been bombed.

  In response to these violations, the Security Council decided,
  in Resolution 816 of March 31, 1993, to extend the ban to all
  unauthorized flights over Bosnia-Herzegovina and to authorize
  Member States, acting nationally or through regional organi-
  zations, to take all necessary measures to ensure compliance.
  NATO's North Atlantic Council (NAC) agreed to provide NATO air
  enforcement for the no-fly zone.  The U.N. Secretary General
  was notified of NATO's decision to proceed with Operation DENY
  FLIGHT, and an activation order was delivered to participating
  allies.

  The United States actively supported these decisions.  At my
  direction, the Joint Chiefs of Staff sent an execute order to
  all U.S. forces participating in the NATO force, for the conduct
  of phased air operations to prevent flights not authorized by
  the United Nations over Bosnia-Herzegovina.  The U.S. forces
  initially assigned to this operation consist of 13 F-15 and
  12 F-18A fighter aircraft and supporting tanker aircraft.
  These aircraft commenced enforcement operations at 8:00 a.m.
  e.d.t. on April 12, 1993.  The fighter aircraft are equipped for
  combat to accomplish their mission and for self-defense.

  NATO has positioned forces and has established combat air
  patrol (CAP) stations within the control of Airborne Early
  Warning (AEW) aircraft.  The U.S. CAP aircraft will normally
  operate from bases in Italy and from an aircraft carrier in the
  Adriatic Sea.  Unauthorized aircraft entering or approaching
  the no-fly zone will be identified, interrogated, intercepted,
  escorted/monitored, and turned away (in that order).  If these
  steps do not result in compliance with the no-fly zone, such
  aircraft may be engaged on the basis of proper authorization by
  NATO military authorities and in accordance with the approved

                                more

       	    	      	   	     	       	    (OVER)

                                  2

  rules of engagement, although we do not expect such action will
  be necessary.  The Commander of UNPROFOR (the United Nations
  Protection Force currently operating in Bosnia-Herzegovina) was
  consulted to ensure that his concerns for his force were fully
  considered before the rules of engagement were approved.

  It is not possible to predict at this time how long such
  operations will be necessary.  I have directed U.S. armed forces
  to participate in these operations pursuant to my constitutional
  authority as Commander in Chief.  I am grateful for the con-
  tinuing support that the Congress has given to this effort, and
  I look forward to continued cooperation as we move forward
  toward attainment of our goals in this region.

       	    	      	   	Sincerely,

       	    	      	   	WILLIAM J. CLINTON


Since everyone else seems to be running wild with predictions, I've
decided to add my own fuel to the fire:
They might seem a bit normal, but there are a few (albeit, small) surprises.

American League East	 W	 L	GB
1)New York Yankees	93	69	--
2)Baltimore Orioles	90	72	 3
3)Toronto Blue Jays	86	76	 7
4)Cleveland Indians     84      78       9
5)Boston Red Sox	77	85	16
6)Milwaukee Brewers	74	88	19
7)Detroit Tigers	73	89	20

American League West	 W	 L	GB
1)Minnesota Twins	94	68	--
2)Kansas City Royals	92	70	 2
3)Texas Rangers     	85	77	 9
4)Chicago White Sox	77	85	17
5)Oakland Athletics	74	88	20
6)Seattle Mariners	70	92	24
7)California Angels	65	97	29

AL MVP-Kirby Puckett
AL Cy Young-Kevin Appier
AL Rookie of the Year-Tim Salmon
AL Manager of the Year-Buck Showalter
AL Comeback Player of the Year-Ozzie Guillen

National League East	 W	 L	GB
1)St. Louis Cardinals	91	71	--
2)Philadelphia Phillies 89	73	 2
3)Montreal Expos	88	74	 3
4)New York Mets		84	78	 7
5)Chicago Cubs		79	83	12
6)Pittsburgh Pirates	73	89	18
7)Florida Marlins	54     108	37

National League West	 W	 L	GB
1)Atlanta Braves	96	66	--
2)Cincinnati Reds	94	68	 2
3)Houston Astros	89	73	 7
4)Los Angeles Dodgers	82	80	14
5)San Francisco Giants	81	81	15
6)San Diego Padres	75	87	21
7)Colorado Rockies	59     103	37

NL MVP-Barry Larkin
NL Cy Young-John Smoltz
NL Rookie of the Year-Wil Cordero
NL Manager of the Year-Joe Torre
NL Comeback Player of the Year-Eric Davis

NL Champions-St. Louis Cardinals
AL Champions-Minnesota Twins
World Champions-St. Louis Cardinals

The St. Louis picks are what my heart says.
What my brain says, is they will win the division, lose to the Braves
in the NLCS, and the Braves will win the Series against Minnesota.
But for now, I'll stick with the Cards all the way.


: I've been trying to view .tga files created in POVRAY.  I have the Diamond
: SpeedStar 24 Video board (not the _24X_).  So far I can convert them to
: jpeg using cjpeg and view them with CVIEW but that only displays 8 bit color.
..
: Just want to see the darn things in real color...

I have an ATI ultra pro card, and have found that the easiest way to view
true color images is using their windows drivers and something like winjpeg
or photofinish.

If anyone has a non-windows solution, I'd love to hear it!


 	Attacking? Who is attacking who? Even the country you live in,USA, have condemned
	Armenia for it's attacking. And you start to say that the attackers
	are the Azeris?????

	|>Armenians have lived in Nagorno Karabakh ever since there were Armenians

	?????
	Azeris have lived in Nagorno Karabakh ever since there were Azeris...
	Don't come with nonsence, there is no reason to attack a people
	just because a man called "Gorbatjov and co." gave the "freedom" to the people
	in this area.

	It's easy for people like you to blame history. The were a lot of
        Indians living in USA. There is no reason for these
	Indians to attack the "American"
	people and say:"It was the fault of the government of Germany and Great
	Britain, because they made people come to our place......" Armenians lived in
	harmony with the Azeris until "Gorbatjov and co." gave "freedom" to the people
	in Karabag, then the Armenians started to kill, rape and torture the Azeris, not only
	in Karabag but also noe in Azerbadjan....

	|>It's too bad you would want Turkey to start a war with Armenia.

	  That's what i don't want, you couldn't imagine the result of a war.....
	  So France, Greece and  USA wants to start fighting with Azerbadjan????
	  They give a lot more weapons to the Armenians without
	  saying it, that's no secret any more......

	  I must say that these Armenian Government is very shortsighted.
	  Do they think that they shall move from it's neigbours when the war
 	  is over???? The neighbour around will be there and Armenia must
	  live in harmony with these if they don't want a "stone-age" country,
	  for that's what's will happen Armenia if the wars continues.

	  Look, The President of Turkey, Turgut Ozal, died and  Petrosyan
	  the Armenian Presindent is now in Turkey for the funeral. Is it because
	  he liked him? Sure NOT, because Armenia needs it's neighbours and must
	  live with these. But Armenia can't stop this war with continued ordertaking
	  from states like France and USA. With other words, if you love your people
	  you must think twice.....

	  And i wonder, "Shoot down turkish planes" WITH WHAT????? ohhh i forgot
	  the Armenians can't find food but there are a lot of arms from the mentioned
	  countries.....


Why don't you consider PHIGS in X or PEX lib?


Uh, I'm afraid that your information is slightly out of date... PKWare
has obtained a license to export their program to the whole world,
except a very limited list of countries... Draw your own conclusions
about the strength of the algorithm... :-)

Regards,
Vesselin


They recycled a lot of models and theme music for UFO.  Some of the
concepts even showed up in SPACE: 1999.


That's nice, but it doesn't answer the question.  There is a difference
between "the feds can mandate literacy" and "the feds can't interfere
with literacy/book possession".

Actually, the Miller court did nothing of the kind.  It remanded
the case back to the trial court because the miller court didn't
know if the weapon in question was a militia weapon.  (Doesn't it
bother anyone that a major constitutional issue was taken up in
a case where there was no defense?  Miller had been released by
the appeals court and disappeared - only the govt was represented.)

We don't know what would have happened with the reasonable "all guns
are militia weapons" argument.

-andy


I think it's simply because DOS doesn't use the IRQ for anything. OS/2 does,
so with that you can't share the IRQ.

Anssi


:Thousands?  Tens of thousands?  Do some arithmetic, please...  Skipjack
:has 2^80 possible keys.

We don't yet know if all 80 bits count.  Anyway, its looking like the
keys and escrow arrangements are smoke and mirrors to cover the way the NSA
can regenerate the key from the transmitted serial number.


From article <1pq6i2$a1f@news.ysu.edu>, by ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker):

	Oh, sure -- sorry, but the absence of a cupholder is not gonna
discourage anyone from eating/drinking in the car;  let's just put one
in anyway, so at least they don't have the further distraction of trying
not to spill it.
	Furthermore, you are obviously not a smoker; on a cold day, it
takes a certain skill to toss a butt out of a cracked window without having
it wind-deflect into the back seat.  Also, just 'cause some smokers use
the window, doesn't mean all of us do.
	This reminds me of *one* pleasant feature in the otherwise
ergonomically-hellish interior of the Alfa Romeo Milano:  you could ash
your cigarette without even removing your hand from the wheel; the 'tray
was *right*there*.

	These, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake
continental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies
try to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion
in the way.
	Most pitiful fake convertible top: on a "Cadillac" Cimarron, with
all the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.
Of course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...


: I believe that Rusty Staub was also a jewish ball-player
: Also, Mordaci Brown back in the early 20th century.  He was a pitcher whose
: nickname was "3 fingers" Brown....for obvious reasons....he had 3 fingers.

0 for 2, ma_ind25.

Daniel Patrick Staub is a Catholic school kid from Nawlins, Mordecai
Brown a farm kid (probably Protestant) from somewhere in the Midwest.
He lost those fingers in a farm machinery accident.

Jim Palmer isn't Jewish himself, but Mr. Jockey Shorts's adoptive
parents are.

Also, I'm not absolutely certain that Carew actually converted.  His
wife and children certainly are Jewish.

--


Is life a pass/fail course, and does God grade on a
curve?
	I'm new here, and only vaguely religious, but I want to
know what some of you people think.  Specifically, are there an
infinite number of Heavens, and a person goes to the one that
he/she deserves?  Or is it simply Heaven or nothing (Hell?)
Also, are we "graded" by those around us, or has there always
been some unchanging method?  Is the person's childhood taken
into account?
	I'm sure these must sound like over-simplifications to
most of you, but I figure that you're the experts.

						-Quinn

[Eschatology is an area on which Christians do not agree.  I suspect
that's because our primary source of information is prophets and
visionaries, and their writings tend to be highly symbolic.  However
both Jesus' teachings in the Gospels and books such as the Revelation
to John talk primarily about the difference between eternal life and
eternal death.  On a number of occasions Jesus does say things that
imply some sort of differentiation, e.g. Lk 10:14 and a number of
similar passages where Jesus says things like "even XXX will be better
off than you in the judgement."  Also, I Cor 3 talks about someone who
gets into heaven, but by the skin of his teeth, as it were.  But these
passages are not normally interpreted as suggesting separate heavens,
so much as differing levels of prestige or punishment in heaven or
hell (and not all Christians would even go as far as that).  The only
Christian group I know of that believes in multiple heavens is the
Mormons, and they are very far from mainstream Christianity (far
enough that many of our readers would not call them Christian).  Their
ideas in this area involve specific Mormon revelations, in addition
to the Bible and "Holy Tradition" of a more generic Christian sort.

Note that many Christians will cringe at the very thought of
associating grading with God.  The whole point of Christ was to free
us from the results of a test that we couldn't possibly pass.  If you
like test analogies, God grades on a very strict and unbending scale,
but he also cheats -- he replaces our test papers with an exam that
was prepared by the teacher, before actually doing the grading.
Because some people end up in heaven and others in hell, it's easy to
see why you'd be inclined to think of it as grading.  While there are
differences among branches of Christianity on details, I think we all
agree that in one way or another, God cheats.

I am personally very sceptical about anyone who claims to know exactly
how far God's cheating extends.  Will he accept people who don't
explicitly acknowledge Christ, but somehow still follow him in their
hearts?  Many Christians believe that this is possible, at least in
principle, but certainly not all do.  Jesus provided us with a clear
description of how to be saved, but it's not clear to me that he
provided an exact description of how he's going to place the dividing
line.  Certainly he made it clear that we can't expect to know whether
other individuals are saved or not.


Actually, the way I understand it, it is an octapus.
Apparently, a number of years ago, a fan threw an octapus on
the ice and the announcer said "Octapi will not occupy the ice"
or something like that, and it's happened ever since.  The fans
cheer those who pick up the dead octapus with their hands, and
boo those who use a shovel.


I think the next time I post something like this, I obviously need to make
the sarcasm a bit more obvious...

chuck


Link with '-lm' (math library).

This is a bug in Sun's shared libraries. Linking with
'-assert nodefinitions' should do the trick.


Educate yourself before you rip on this years manager of the year.
Lankford injured himself in a previous game and Torre was resting
him.

As far as the Whitten/Gilkey controversy.  Whitten adds some more
needed power, and if Jordan continues to hit the way he has been,
Gilkey will find himself in the starting lineup soon enough.

Sam


: >Hi, it's an *easy* question for you Windows gurus.  I'd appreciate any help.

: >We need to write an on-line help for our application.  We don't have
: >Windows Software Developer's Toolkit (yet :-) ). Since we just want to build
: >a .HLP file around Windows' help engine, I hope it won't be that complicated?
: >Anyway, could someone kindly give me some hints of how to build such an
: >on-line help, if it does not take 100 pages to explain? Or if it is complicated,
: >would you help to point out what I would need to do it?
: >--

: >Vincent Q. Yin
: >umyin@ccu.umanitoba.ca

: Hi,

: If you have developed your own windows application you must have a
: SDK of some sort that contains the HC.EXE or HC31.EXE file to
: compile and generate .HLP files out of .RTF files.

****------->  No, U can download what??.zip from ftp.cica.indiana.edu
              This package from MS is all U need to buid (simple?) .HLP
              files from Rich Text Format Files (.RTF). This package
              also contains .DOT tamplates for MS Word4Win.

: RTF files are generated by a wordprocessor like Word for Dos or W4W.

: If this is not the solution be more specific about your application.


: > 	   I'm a commited Christian that is battling with a problem.  I know
: > that romans talks about how we are saved by our faith not our deeds, yet
: > hebrews and james say that faith without deeds is useless, saying' You fools,
: > do you still think that just believing is enough?'
:
: [Stuff deleted]
:
: > Now I am of the opinion that you a saved through faith alone (not what you do)
: > as taught in Romans, but how can I square up in my mind the teachings of James
: > in conjunction with the lukewarm Christian being 'spat-out'
: >
: > Can anyone help me, this really bothers me.
:

I have received tons of mail from people replying to this article I wrote, and
I would just like to thank everyone who took the time to give me a hand.  It
has indeed helped me and re-affirmed alot of theories that I held but was a
little unsure about.

God bless you all

Will


[deletions]

 People with advanced science degrees use state of the art equipment
and spend millions of dollars to simulate tornadoes. But tornadoes
do not require intelligence to exist.
 Not only that, the equipment needed is not really 'state of the art.'
To study the *products*, yes, but not to generate them.

 Oh, I will. :->

Sincerely,