Can someone please remind me who said a well known quotation?

He was sitting atop a rocket awaiting liftoff and afterwards, in answer to
the question what he had been thinking about, said (approximately) "half a
million components, each has to work perfectly, each supplied by the lowest
bidder....."

Attribution and correction of the quote would be much appreciated.


G'Day

Windows NT is a step forward, but not by much. I guess for DOS users who
think multi-tasking is really _neat_ (add puke here) and are overjoyed to
be able to use more than 64K of memory, its a major improvement. For Windows
users its more like an upgrade with facilities most Unix users take for
granted. Most of  Windows users only use PCs for text processing or running
3rd-party applications anyway so the operating system features are not even
a real issue. My ideal operating system:

	Binary compatible across all plaforms. It should recognize
	binaries and configure on the fly, so I don't have to have
	bin/Mac bin/DOS bin/Dec bin/Sun bin/HP etc...

	Multi-CPU. So I can use the CPUs on my PC and W/S and Mac
	and Transputers and DSPs. I don't know a single site which
	has gone for a single vendor. I am not going to trade-in
	80Mflops per H1 transputer or ultra-fast FFT on DSP chips.
	Note NT runs on Symmetric multi-CPU systems.

	Built-in portable GUI/Graphics tools. You can call DrawButton
	or DrawLine and it does the same thing no matter what platform
	or display. It should also translate graphics commands on-the-fly.
	so I can use PC graphics S/W on my workstation and X software on
 	my PC. I think GUIs are not just nice to have but essential.

	Configurable front-end. So you can make it look like Unix or DOS
	or NT or OS/2, and run shell scripts or command/BAT files.

	Object oriented. So I can program easily under it and not have
	to re-invent the wheel if the networking is not up to scratch
	or my application needs to access source/object code on the fly.

In other words it should have some AI capability. That and a tight, clean
kernel so you can actually understand it. Anyone know of something like this ?

	adios
	     Ata <(|)>.


Interesting discussion.

I limit myself to *one* 'standard serving' of alcohol if I'm
going to ride. And mostly, unless the alcohol is something
special (fine ale, good wine, or someone else's vsop), I usually
just don't drink *any*.

But then alcohol just isn't really important to me, mainly
for financial reasons...

At least one of the magazines claims to follow the
aviation guideline of "no alcohol whatsoever" within
24hrs of riding a 'company' bike.

Don't remember which mag though, it was a few years ago.

Regards, Charles (hicc.)
DoD:0.001
RZ350


Greetings!

          HP 20s forsale.
          comes with case
          no manuals
          excellent condition

          asking for $13.00

          If interested, please E-mail today.


I've a curiousity --

  Whenever a person is put on the 15-day, 30-day or 60-day,
 the person is on the list longer than the specificed time

  I've seen a person on the 15-day for maybe 4 months last year, I don't
 remember what...

 I just need a little clarification on the disabled list specifications.

- Scotyy


In most cases information you come by properly is yours to use as you wish,
but there are certainly exceptions.  If you write a paper which includes
sufficiently detailed information on how to build a nuclear weapon, it is
classified.  As I understand the law, nuclear weapons design is
_automatically_ classified even if you do the work yourself.  I believe you
are then not allowed to read your own paper.

A less serious example: if you tell drivers about a speed trap they are
about to run into, you can be fined, even though you might argue that you
broke no law when you discovered the location of the policeman.  The charge
is interfering with a police officer, which is quite similar what you would
be doing by reverse engineering the Clipper chip.

Don't tell me that you think this violates the Constitution -- find some
court cases which have struck down such laws.  Many people would not be
comforted by the fact that the government violated their rights when it
imprisoned them.


I have a genie garage door transmitter forsale, this unit is a three
button station. will operate three different door or gate openers.
Has never been used, normaly goes for $45.00 Im ask $20.00 + shipping.
If interested please email me.


The subject line says it all -- I'm trying to locate a copy of SPI's
board game "War of the Ring."  Anyone have a copy with which they are
willing to part?

Thanks a million ...


No.  Plug the printer in the printer port, and the modem in the modem
port. ;)


I'll contact you offline about this.


The last state church was in Massachusetts.  Sam Adams, the patriot-brewmaster,
during his tenure as governor after the Revolutionary War got it passed.
I believe it was eliminated around 1820.


I suspect that you think that this is less lethal than the typical
"assault weapon".  You are wrong.  Compared to what most criminals use, a
9mm with military ammo (FMJs), or a military rifle (use is extremely
rare), .223 or 7.62mm with military ammo (FMJs), the .32 H&R magnum with
"civie" bullets is more lethal.  Most of the arms which criminals (and
the military) use are among the least lethal arms in existance.


Squids are everybody but me and you.  Chris Behanna is especially a squid.


Of course, the list has to agree with the nickname laws laid down by the
GIPU almost 2000 years ago (you know... the 9 of them that were written on
the iron tablets that melted once and had to be reinscribed?).  Since I am
a prophet of the GIPU I decree that you should post the whole list of
nicknames for the frequent posters here!


Could someone please send instructions for installing simms and vram to
jmk13@po.cwru.edu?  He's just gotten his 700 and wants to drop in some
extra simms and vram that he has for it.


What position does Mike Lansing play?  I cannot seem to find it
 anywhere.  Thanks!!!!1

	K-->
--


Some recent postings remind me that I had read about risks
associated with the barbecuing of foods, namely that carcinogens
are generated. Is this a valid concern? If so, is it a function
of the smoke or the elevated temperatures? Is it a function of
the cooking elements, wood or charcoal vs. lava rocks? I wish
to know more. Thanks.


Hi !

I am using Xview 3.0 on a Sparc IPX under Openwindows along with a XVideo board
from Parallax which enables me to use 24 bit color. I am having some problems
utilizing the 24 bit color and would greatly appreciate any help in this matter.

I use Xview to create a Frame and then create a canvas pane inside which I use
to display live video. My video input is 24 bit color.

The problem is that my top level frame created as
	frame = (Frame) xv_create(NULL,FRAME,NULL);
seems to have a depth of 8 which is propagated to my canvas.

I would like to know how I can set the depth of the frame to be 24 bits.
I tried using the following Xlib code :

XVisualInfo visual_info;
int depth = 24;
Colormap colormap;
XSetWindowAttributes attribs;
unsigned long valuemask = 0;
Window *win;
Xv_opaque frame;

win = xv_get(frame,XV_XID);
XMatchVisualInfo(display,screen,depth,TrueColor,&visual_info);

/* So far so good */

colormap = XCreateColormap(display,win,visual_info,AllocNone);

/* It dies here with a BadMatch error :( */

attribs.colormap = colormap;
valuemask |= CWColormap;
XChangeWindowAttributes(display,w,valuemask,&attribs);
XSetWindowColormap(display,win,colormap);

Am I using a completely wrong approach here ? Is it possible to set the depth
and colormap for a window created by Xview ? What am I doing wrong ?

Thanks in advance for any help that I can get. I would prefer a response via
email although a post on the newsgroup is also okay.

Thanks again,

Alok.


I'm selling the following items...

	- a pair of hard saddle bags
	- easy installation
	- snap release feature with lock
	- black
	- brand is Krusures

	- two oshi full face helmets

	take all for $275

These are comming off of my bike that I'm selling, maybe
you could use the whole thing, bike and accessories.

	1983 Yamaha, vision 550

	call Medi @ work (415) 940-2306
		    home (408) 744-1169

Thanks


Don't you think it would be better to E-mail back to you that we read sci.space
so that you can count them and every server in the world does not have to get
BW'd to death.  Or instead you could possible cut and past all the senders into
a single post and save on header bandwidth....  Not meaning to be taken as a
flame  it's late and we have to work toward a demo .... little punchy
--


: I've started to look at some devices doing serial data transmission
: over fairly decent distances in fairly noisy environments, and have
: seen a variety of schemes for protecting the RS232 transceivers (and
: the rest of the circuit) from transients on the serial lines.  I'm
: left wondering what is the best way of doing this?  How necessary is
: it?
: [stuff deleted]
: What is the wisdom on this out there?
:
: Ta,
:
: Martin.
:
:
From what I know, protection is necessary, esp. if you plan to route
the cables into an unknown environment (out of your control). Things
like accidental shorts between the signal lines and power cables, or
even lightning strikes are very likely and I don't think you like to see
the sight of your computer going up in smoke! [Even ethernet cards are
protected. I've looked at the one in my PC and the connector is
protected by a gas discharge tube!]

{But if you plan to use the serial cables for internal routings (i.e. in
controlled environments), it should be reasonably safe not to have
them.}

Suggestion: look in the RS data book. They have several RS232
transceivers that have overvoltage protection. Among them include the
LT1080, LT1081 and MAX250 and MAX251. The Maxims are suppose to be
electrically isolated ones but still need opto-isolators to work (don't
ask me why. I've never used them before.

Another alternative is an RS232 surge protector. Two are listed in the
RS catalogue. If you need additional info (i.e. stock nos.), just e-mail
me.


Alexis Perry asked if low blood potassium could be dangerous.  Yes.
ZZ


# ## #I remain pro-choice, but when pro-choicers compare abortion in a
# ## #clinic to a religious ritual in a church, you have to start wondering
# ## #a bit if the pro-life criticism of abortion as modern human sacrifice
# ## #doesn't have a grain of truth to it.
#
# ##
# ## Ah, Clayton, so I see that you have found someone new to bash.  Tell
# ## me, how many pro-choicers have compared abortion in a clinic to a
# ## religious ritual in a church?  I'll bet that you've seen "overwhelming
# ## support" for this opinion in some newsgroup or another.
#
# #No, but I've seen the comparison drawn by pro-choicers in ca.politics.
# #It is worrisome to me.  But not to you?
#
# 1. I've been reading ca.politics for a while now, and I don't recall
#    seeing such a comparison.

You don't read *my* postings very carefully; I'm not surprised.  It
was pretty shocking, and is part of why my sympathy (though not
agreement) with the pro-lifers is increasing.

# 2. A handful of lunatic opinions expressed in ca.politics does not
#    make me think that the opinion is widely held.

When did I say that it was?

# Clayton, I wish I knew what made you tick.  Your math sucks, and you
# take single instances of fringe opinions and proclaim the existence of
# a pernicious trend.  There's about a quarter billion people living in
# this country -- some small number of them are almost guaranteed to
# hold opinions that you (and I) find positively repellent.  As long as
# the small number is truly a small number, and as long as they're not
# my neighbor (highly likely), I'm not worried about it.

When they hold high public office, you should worry.

# By the way, when you cite experts, remember that Carl Sagan and Paul
# Ehrlich [sp?] are experts, too.  If I've never heard of your experts,
# I'll consider the source (you, a man who is clearly unable to master
# elementary statistics and uses of statistical inference) and ignore
# them.
#
# David Chase

You mean, I don't come to the conclusions that your emotional
state requires.


The traditions of the church hold that all the "apostles" (meaning the 11
surviving disciples, Matthias, Barnabas and Paul) were martyred, except for
John.  "Tradition" should be understood to read "early church writings other
than the bible and heteroorthodox scriptures".


Actually the book is called "Seventh Day Adventists believe..."  And there
are 27 basica beliefs.  I believe it is printed by the Reveiew and
Herald Publishing Association.

--

"Competition is the law of the jungle.
 Cooperation is the law of civilization." -- Eldridge Cleaver


****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****

FORSALE:

        ESIX UNIX System V Release 4 - NEW!
        2 user license system - $400
        Unlimited user license system - $450
        2 user license system with dev kit - $500
        Unlimited user license system with dev kit - $550

The above systems include all of the floppies or tapes and
instalation manuals. They are new and have never been
installed before. Market value for the above systems is
about $1500 US! If you are interested, please contact me
at 416-233-6038.

                                         Thanks,
                                               ...Mike
                                               mike.budlanski@canrem.com


Does anyone know of a dead first generation MR2? I need body parts, steering
rack, and a few minor pieces. I was about to buy a parts car, but the owner
backed out after 3 month of pulling my leg. ARRRRgh.
Mike.S


the transmission in my car contradicts both your assertions..  i get much
stronger acceleration if i let the convertor lockup.. which i can induce
by briefly lifting off,  then quickly (but not too quickly to trigger
a kickdown) applying throttle.  above 3000 rpms, the convertor will never
unlock;  it would kickdown first.

who says there's no skill involved in driving an automatic?  i think
of it as the throttle and shifter combined into a single pedal.  with
my car i can pretty much influence its shifting patterns with my
right foot, while having both hands to steer.


	We're talking about insurance agents from Bumf**k Illinois (ST.FARM is
HQ'ed in Bloomington).  What the hell do  they know about cars...  Both are
sports cars...  :-)


It doesn't make a whole lot of difference, actually, since they weren't
building spares of the station hardware anyway.  (Dumb.)  At least this
is only one launch to fail.


#
# > In Re:Syria's Expansion, the author writes that the UN thought
# > Zionism was Racism and that they were wrong.  They were correct
# > the first time, Zionism is Racism and thankfully, the McGill Daily
# > (the student newspaper at McGill) was proud enough to print an article
# > saying so.  If you want a copy, send me mail.
# >
# Was the article about zionism? or about something else. The majority
# of people I heard emitting this ignorant statement, do not really
# know what zionism is. They have just associated it with what they think
# they know about the political situation in the middle east.
#
# So Steve: Lets here, what IS zionism?

  Assuming that you mean 'hear', you weren't 'listening': he just
  told you, "Zionism is Racism."  This is a tautological statement.


GREAT post Martin.  Very informative, well-balanced, and humanitarian
without neglecting the need for scientific rigor.

(Cross-posted to alt.psychology.personality since some personality typing
will be discussed at the beginning - Note: I've set all followups to sci.med
since most of my comments are more sci.med oriented and I'm sure most of the
replies, if any, will be med-related.)

They are just responding in their natural way:  Hyper-Choleric Syndrome (HCS).
Oops, that is not a recognized "illness" in the psychological community,
better not say that since it therefore must not, and never will, exist.  :^)

Actually, it is fascinating that a disproportionate number of physicians
will type out as NT (for those not familiar with the Myers-Briggs system,
just e-mail me and I'll send a summary file to you).  In the general
population, NT's comprise only about 12% of the population, but among
physicians it is much much higher (I don't know the exact percentage -
any help here a.p.p.er's?)

One driving characteristic of an NT, especially an NTJ, is their obvious
choleric behavior (driver, type A, etc.) - the extreme emotional need to
control, to lead, and/or to be the best or the most competent.  If they are
also extroverted, they are best described as "Field Marshalls".  This trait
is very valuable and essential in our society - we need people who want to
lead, to strive to overcome the elements, to seek and thirst for knowledge,
to raise the level of competency, etc.  The great successes in science and
technology are in large part due to the vision (an N trait) and scientifically-
minded approach (T trait) of the NT personality (of course, the other types
and temperaments have their own positive contributions as well).  However,
when the NT person has self-image challenges, the "dark-side" of this
personality type usually comes out, which should be obvious to all.

A physician who is a strong NT and who has not learned to temper their
temperament will be extremely business-like (lack of empathy or feeling),
and is very compelled to have total control over their patient (the patient
must be obedient to their diagnosis and prescription without question).  I've
known many M.D.'s of this temperament and suffice to say I don't oblige them
with a followup visit, no matter how competent I think they are (and they
usually are very competent from a knowledge viewpoint since that is an
extreme drive of theirs - to know the most, to know it all).

Maybe we need more NF doctor's.  :^)

Enough on this subject - let's move on to candida bloom.

You've helped me already by your post.  Of course, I believe that I have
been misdiagnosed on the net as suffering from 'anal retentivitis', but being
the phlegmatic I am, maybe I was just a little too harsh on a few people
myself in past posts.  Let's all try to raise the level of this discussion
above the level of anal effluent.

In my well-described situation (in prior posts), I definitely was immune
stressed.  Blood tests showed my vitamin A levels were very low.  My sinuses
were a mess - no doubt the mucosal lining and the cilia were heavily damaged.
I also was on antibiotics 15 times in 4 years!  In the end, even two weeks
of Ceftin did not work and I had confirmed diagnoses of a chronic bacterial
infection of the sinuses via cat-scans, mucus color (won't get into the
details), and other symptoms.  Three very traditional ENT's made this
diagnosis (I did not have any cultures done, however, because of the
difficulty of doing this right and because my other symptoms clearly showed
a bacterial infection).  Enough of this background (provided to help you
understand where I was when I make comments about my Sporanox anti-fungal
therapy below).

The first question I have is this.  Can fungus penetrate a little way into poor
mucus membrane tissue, maybe via hyphae, thus causing symptoms, without being
considered 'systemic' in the classic sense?  It is sort of an inbetween
infection.

I was concerned, too, because of the toxicity of vitamin A.  My doctor, after
my blood tests, put me on 75,000 IU of vitamin A for one week only, then
dropped it down to 25,000 IU for the next couple of weeks.  I also received
zinc and other supplementation, since all of these interrelate in fairly
complex ways as my doctor explained (he's one of those 'evil' orthomolecular
specialists).  I had a blood test three weeks later and vitamin A was normal,
he then stopped me on all vitamin A (except for some in a multi-vitamin)
supplement), and made sure that I maintain a 50,000 IU/day of beta carotene.
Call me carrot face.  :^)

Hopefully, Elaine's doctor will take a similar, careful approach and to
all supplements.  I'm even reevaluating some supplements I'm taking, for
example, niacin in fairly large dosages, 1 gram/day, which Steve Dyer had
good information about on sci.med.nutrition.  If niacin only has second-order
improvement in symptomatic relief of my sinus allergies, then it probably is
not worth taking such a large dose long-term and risking liver damage.

Though I do now believe, based on my successful therapy with Sporanox, that
I definitely had some excessive growth of fungus (unknown species) in my
sinuses, I still want to ask the question:  have there been any studies that
demonstrate candida "blooms" in the sinuses with associated sinus irritation
(sinusitis/rhinitis)?  (My sinus irritation reduced significantly after one
week of Sporanox and no other new treatments were implemented during this
time - I did not have any noticeable GI track problems before starting on
Sporanox, but some for a few days after which then went away - considered
normal).

BTW, my doctor dug out one of his medical reference books (sorry, can't
remember which one), and found an obscure comment dating back into the 1950's
which stated that people can develop contained (non-lethal or non-serious)
aspergillis infestations (aspergiliosis) of the sinuses leading to sinus
inflammation symptoms.  I'll have to dig out that reference again since it
is relevant to this discussion.

My doctor tested me (I believe a RAST or RAST similar test) for allergic
response to specificially Candida albicans, and I showed a strong positive.
Another question, would everybody show the same strong positive so this test
is essentially useless?  And, assuming it is true that Candida can grow
part-way into the mucus membrane tissue, and the concentration exceeds a
threshold amount, could not a person who tests as having an allergy to
Candida definitely develop allergic symptoms, such as mucus membrane
irritation due to the body's allergic response?  As I said in an earlier post,
one does not need to be a rocket scientist, or have a M.D. degree or a
Ph.D. in biochemistry to see the plausibility of this hypothesis.

BTW, and I'll repost this again.  Dr. Ivker, in his book, "Sinus Survival",
has routinely given, before anything else, Nizoral (a pre-Sporanox systemic
anti-fungal, not as safe and not as good as Sporanox) to his new chronic
sinusitis patients IF they have been on antibiotics four or more times in
the last two years.  He claims that out of 2000 or so patients, well over
90% notice some relief of sinus inflammation and other symptoms, but it
doesn't cure it by any means, implying the so-called yeast/fungus infection
is not the primary cause, but a later complication.  He's also found that
nystatin, whether taken internally, or put into a sinus spray, does not help.

This implies (of course assuming that excessive yeast/fungus bloom is
aggravating the sinus inflammation) that the yeast/fungus has grown partway
into the tissue since nystatin will not kill yeast/fungus other than by
direct contact - it is not absorbed into the blood stream.  Again, I admit,
lots of 'ifs', and 'implies', which doesn't please the hard-core NT who
has to have the double-blind study or it's a non-issue, but one has to start
with some plausible hypothesis/explanation, a strawman, if you will.

This brings up an interesting observation used by those who will deny
and reject any and all aspects of the 'yeast hypothesis' until the
appropriate studies are done.  And that is if you can't observe or culture
the yeast "bloom" in the gut or sinus, then there's no way to diagnose or
even recognize the disease.  And I know they realize that it is virtually
impossible to test for candida overbloom in any part of the body that cannot
be easily observed since candida is everywhere in the body.

It's a real Catch-22.

Another Catch-22:  Those who totally reject the 'yeast hypothesis' say that
no studies have been done (actually studies have been done, but if it's not
up to a certain standard then it is, from their perspective, a non-study which
should not even be considered).  I agree that the appropriate studies should
be done, and that will take big $ to do it right.  However, in order to
convince the funding agencies in these austere times to open their wallets,
you literally have to give them evidence, and the only acceptable evidence to
compete with other proposals is paradoxically to do almost the exact study
needed funding.  That is, you have to do 90% of the study before you even get
funding (as a scientist at a National Lab, I'm very aware of this for the
smaller funded projects).  I'm afraid that even if Dr. Ivker and 100 other
doctors got together, pooled their practice's case histories and anecdotes
into a compelling picture, and approach the funding agencies, they would get
nowhere, even if they were able to publish their statistical results.

It is obvious from the comments by some of the doctors here is that they have
*decided* excessive yeast colonization in the gut or sinuses leading to
noticeable non-lethal symptoms does not exist, and is not even a tenable
hypothesis, so any amount of case histories or compiled anecdotal evidence
to the contrary will never change their mind, and not only that, they would
also oppose the needed studies because in their minds it's a done issue -
excessive yeast growth leading to diffuse allergic symptoms does not, will
not, and cannot exist.  Period.  Kind of tough to dialog with those who hold
such a viewpoint.  Kind of reminds me of Lister...

Aren't there also other nutrients necessary to the proper working of the
sinus mucus membranes and cilia?

Again, the evidence from mycological studies indicate that many yeast/fungus
species can grow hyphae ("roots") into deep tissue, similar to mold growing
in bread.  You can continue to kill the surface, such as nystatin does, but
you can't kill that which is deeper in the tissue without using a systemic
anti-fungal such as itraconazole (Sporanox) or some of the older ones such
as Nizoral which are more toxic and not as effective.  This is why, as has
been pointed out by recent studies (sent to me by a doctor I've been in
e-mail contact with - thanks), that nystatin is not effective in the long-
term treatment of GI tract "candidiasis".  It's like trying to weed a garden
by cutting off what's above the ground but leaving the roots ready to come
out again once you walk away.

The $60000 question is whether a contained candida "bloom" can partially
grow into tissue through the mucus membranes, causing some types of symptoms
in susceptible people (e.g., allergy), without becoming "systemic" in the
classical sense of the word - something in between strictly an excessive
bloom not causing any problems and the full-blown systemic infection that
is potentially lethal.

Also, if one is an 'anal retentive', like I've been diagnosed in a prior
post, that can also provide more sites for excessive candida growth.  ;^)

As I've said in private e-mail, there are flaws in our current medical system
that make it difficult or even impossible for a physician to attempt
alternative therapies AFTER the approved/proven/accepted therapies don't work.
For example, I went to three ENT's, who all said that I will just have to live
with my acute/chronic sinusitis after the ab's failed (they did mention
surgery to open up the ostia, but my ostia weren't plugged and it would not
get to the root cause of my condition).  After three months of aggressive and
fairly non-standard therapy (Sporanox, body nutrient level monitoring and
equalization, vitamin C, lentinen, echinacea, etc.), my health has vastly
improved to where I was two years ago, before my health greatly deteriorated.
Of course, skeptics would say that maybe if I did nothing I would have
improved anyway, but that view is stretching things quite far because of the
experience of the three ENT's I saw who said that I'd just have to "live with
it".  I'm confident I will reach what one could call a total "cure".  The
anti-fungal program I undertook was one necessary step in that direction
because of my overuse of ab's for the last four years.  (Note:  for those
having sinus problems, may I suggest the book by Dr. Ivker I mention above.
Be sure to get the revised edition.)

Dr. Ivker started off having chronic and severe sinus problems, and his
visits to several ENT's totally floored him when they said "you'll just have
to live with it".  He spent several years trying everything - standard and
non-standard, until he was essentially cured of chronic sinusitis.  He now
shares his approach in his book and I can honestly say that I am on the road
to recovery following some parts of it.  His one recommendation to take a
systemic anti-fungal at the beginning of treatment IF you have a history of
anti-biotic overuse has been proven to him time and time again in his own
practice.  I'm sure if I commented to him of the hard-core beliefs of the anti-
"yeast hypothesis" posters that he would have definite things to say, such as,
"it's worked wonders for me in almost two thousand cases", to put it mildly.
I also would not be surprised if he would say that they are the ones violating
their moral obligations to help the patient.

Maybe those doctors who are reading this who have a practice and are
confronted by a patient having symptoms that could be due to the "hypothetical
yeast overgrowth" (e.g., they fit some of the profiles the pro-yeast people
have identified), should consider anti-fungal therapy IF all other avenues
have been exhausted.  Remember, theory and practice are two different things -
you cannot have one without the other, they are synergistic.  If a doctor does
something non-standard yet produces noticeable symptomatic relief in over a
thousand of his patients, shouldn't you at least sit up and take notice?
Maybe you ought to trust what he says and begin hypothesizing why it works
instead of why it shouldn't work.  I'm afraid a lot of doctors have become
so enamored with "scientific correctness" that they are ignoring the patients
they have sworn to help.  You have to do both;  both have to be balanced, which
we don't see from some of the posters to this group.  There comes a point when
you just have to use a little common sense, and maybe an empirical approach
(such as trying a good systemic anti-fungal such as Sporanox) after having
exhausted all the other avenues.  I was one of those who the traditional
medical establishment was not able to help, so I did the natural thing:  I
went to a couple of doctor's who are (somewhat) outside this establishment,
and as a result I have found significant relief.

Would it not be better if the traditional medical establishment can set up
some kind of mechanism where any doctor, without fear of being sued or having
his license pulled, can try experimental and unproven (beyond a doubt)
therapies for his/her patients that finally reach the point where all the
accepted therapies are ineffective?  I'd like to hear a doctor tell me:
"well, I've tried all the therapies that are approved and accepted in this
country, and since they clearly don't work for you, I now have the authority
to use experimental, unproven techniques that seem to have helped others.  I
can't promise anything, and there are some risks.  You will have to sign
something saying you understand the experimental and possibly risky nature of
these unproven therapies, and I'll have to register your case at the State
Board."  Anyway, if my ENT had suggested this to me, I would've jumped on this
pronto instead of going to one of those doctors who, for either altruistic
reasons, or for greed, is practicing these alternative therapies with much
risk to him/her (risk meaning losing their license) and possibly to the
patient.  Such a mechanism would keep control in the more mainstream medicine,
and also provide valuable data that would essentially be free.  It also would
be morally and ethically better than the current system by showing the
compassion of the medical community to the patient - that it's doing everything
it can within reason to help the patient.  It is the lack of such a mechanism
that is leading large numbers of people to try alternative therapies, some of
which seem to work (like my case), and others of which will never work at all
(true quackery).

I better get off my soapbox before this post reaches 500K in size.

What dosage of B6 appears to be necessary to promote the healing and proper
working of the mucos memebranes?

I'd like to see the role of complex carbohydrates, such as starch.

Brave soul you are.  The venom on Usenet can be quite toxic unless one
develops an immunity to it.  One year ago, my phlegmatic self would have
backed down right away from an attack of cholericitis.  But my immune
system, and my computer system, have been hardened from gradual
desensitization.  I now kind of like being called "anal retentive" - it has
a nice ring to it.  I also was very impressed by how it just flowed into the
post - truly classic, worthy of a blue (or maybe brown) ribbon.  I might
even cross-post it to alt.best.of.internet.  Hmmm...

Thanks again for a great and informative post.  I hope others who have
researched this area and are lurking in the background will post their
thoughts as well, no matter their views on this subject.

Jon Noring

--

Charter Member --->>>  INFJ Club.


.Chris


The P&G pots are very good.  The Alps ones are usually carried by
the same folks who run the Audio Amateur magazine.


Hi
     I have never used MYM so I can not help you with the comparison of the
two products.  I am, however,  a devoted Quicken user, and I can tell you
how to set up the weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly transactions.  First
use the Memorize feature (CTRL-M) to record the recurring transactions.
Next, define a transaction group which uses these memorized transactions
and specify the frequency that it should be used (i.e. monthly).  Quicken
will/can not automatically make the transactions for you, but now all you
do is recall the group and all of the individual transactions will be
entered at once.  Additionally if you are using the Bill Minder, it will
remind you when each transaction group is due.  For example, you could have
three transaction groups.  One for payments at the beginning of the month,
middle of the month, and one for quarterly payments.  I hope this helps.


Can any Apollo GURUS out there let me know of their experiences building MIT X11R5,
with or without GCC 2.3.3.  In particular, is there anything I should watch out for.

Thanks in advance


For those of you who couldn't find X-Appeal, it is availible at
the following sitex:

	ascwide.ascii.co.jp in the /pub/MSDOS/xappeal dir
	wuarchive.wustl.edu in the /mirrors4/garbo.uwasa.fi/demo
	directory

	The three files are xap13exe.aip, xap10fon.zip and
   drivers.zip.

Josh


HI,
  I am looking for an X app that will display dxf files. These are
  ascii text files that are normally associated with autocad. I have
  a large 9 meg. file of the state of wisconsin that i would like to
  views and or cut into smaller chunks.

  I also would like to find a complete file layout for dxf files.

  Any information would be appreciated.


I did not claim that our system was objective.


Phenylketonuria is a disease in which the body cannot process phenylalanine.
It can build up in the blood and cause seizures and neurological damage.
An odd side effect is that the urine can be deeply colored, like red wine.
People with the condition must avoid Nutrasweet, chocolate, and anything
else rich in phenylalanine.


[reply to zazen@austin.ibm.com (E. H. Welbon)]

For many atheists, the lack of belief in gods is secondary to an
epistemological consideration:  what do we accept as a reliable way of
knowing?  There are no known valid logical arguments for the existence
of gods, nor is there any empirical evidence that they exist.  Most
philosophers and theologians agree that the idea of a god is one that
must be accepted on faith.  Faith is belief without a sound logical
basis or empirical evidence.  It is a reliable way of knowing?

There is probably nothing else most people would accept in the absence
of any possibility of proof.  Even when we agree to take someone elses
word "on faith", we just mean that having found this person to be
reliable in the past, we judge him likely to be a reliable source now.
If we find faith less reliable than logic and empirical evidence
everywhere else, why assume it will provide reliable knowledge about
gods?

The difference between the atheist and the theist is fundamentally then
one of whether or not faith is held to be a reliable way of knowing,
rather than, as some agnostic posters would have it, whether ones faith
is in gods or no gods.  The theist believes that faith is an acceptable
basis for a belief in gods, even if he rejects faith as reliable at
other times, for example in his work as a scientist.  The atheist
believes that only logic and empirical evidence lead to reliable
knowledge.  Agnosticism seems to me a less defensible position than
theism or atheism, unless one is a sceptic in regards to all other
knowledge.  Without evidence, why should we believe in gods rather than
Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny?

I would also like to point out as others have that the atheist doesn't
require absolute knowledge of the lack of gods.  I don't believe that
there is any such thing as absolute knowledge.  Atheism is the best and
simplest theory to fit the (lack of) facts and so should be held until
contrary evidence is found.


}>On a
}>waterski bike, you turn the handlebars left to lean right, just like on
}>a motorcycle, so this supports the move-the-contact-patch-from-beneath-the
}>centre-of-mass theory on how to *lean*. This contradicts the need for
}>gyroscopic precession to have a countersteering induced *lean*.
}
}...FOR A WATERSKI BIKE.  It contradicts nothing for a motorcycle.

Not only that, but this morning I saw a TV ad for a waterski bike
(a Sea Doo, for those who care). I watched the lengthy ad very
carefully, and in every case and at every speed the riders turned
the handlebars left to go left, and right to go right. In other
words, they were *NOT* countersteering.

So perhaps it is only *some* waterski bikes on which one countersteers...


I pointed out the secession movement in Aceh which has also been
brutally dealt with in the past by the Indonesian government.  The
harshly with all secessionist movements.
the evidence, it appears to me that the Indonesian government has dealt
very harshly with all secession movements.

I know that the head of the Indonesian armed forces for a very long time
was Benny Murdani -- a "Christian".  Indonesia has been heavy handed in
East Timor for a long time , even when Murdani was head of the armed
forces.  The people who make up the
Indonesian government are in general motivated by national interests,
not religious ones.


I read somewhere, I think in Morton Smith's _Jesus the Magician_, that
old Lazarus wasn't dead, but going in the tomb was part of an initiation
rite for a magi-cult, of which Jesus was also a part.   It appears that
a 3-day stay was normal.   I wonder .... ?


	Would *you* have come out if you knew the only national TV
cameras were well over a mile away, and yet the agents with the guns
were only a few yards away?  They had contact with a lawyer, so I
am inclined to believe they had an idea of what their situation
actually was.  This also leads to the conspiracy theory that the
lawyer had the BATF pinned on rights violations if the BD's
acted as witnesses, hence the arson.  I doubt that one too, but
it is still quite clear that leaving a safe place to surrender is
a rather stupid thing to do until that place is no longer safe.

	As a matter of course, given how they've allowed no other
views to be heard.  I'll reserve judgement until the trial, but so
far as the FBI is concerned their statements carry the same amount
of weight as photons at rest.

	Ludicrous, yes.  Possible, yes.  Plausible?  Get the jury.

	That's what gets me too.  It is likely the cult members were
holed up in an enforced place inside the building.  With a decent arson
attempt I suspect many of them could have been trapped.  In addition,
the introduction of CS gas for several hours would have rendered many
of them immobile if not unconscious when their masks quit.  All the props
are there, but proving what scene was played is difficult.  The only
certainty is that the FBI and BATF have few witnesses against them.


Somewhere in this thread, it has been said that Windows NT (tm) is a
multi-user OS, as well as multi-threading, etc.  I certainly haven't
seen this to be the case.  There are seperate accounts for each person,
and even seperate directories if that is desired.  I don't see an
implentation of simultaneuos use though.

		Scott

--


(Dean and I write lots and lots about absolute truth and arrogance.)

I agree that we'll probably never agree, and I'm starting to feel
frustrated, and I'm tired of having my conversations with my husband
dominated by this topic (just kidding, :-)).

I do have to say, though, that participating in this discussion has been
a good learning experience for me.  My views on this topic have evolved
and clarified through this, and I suspect that we may not disagree as
much as we think.

I admit that I'm strongly prejudiced against evangelical Christianity,
and I may not always be rational in my reactions to it.  I grew up
in EC, and went to an EC college.  It was definitely the wrong place
for me, and I react strongly to any implication that EC or conservative
Christianity has any sort of stronghold on true Christianity.  I shudder
when I remember the condescending attitude I had about other Christians
who didn't adhere to the EC model.

I have come to see that my real objection to this whole notion of
absolute truth is the actions I have seen it lead to.  I have had some
very bad experiences with evangelical Christians claiming to know the
truth, and judging me or others based on their belief that they have
the answers.  Knowing the truth doesn't seem to leave a whole lot of
room for others' opinions.

I can accept your belief in absolute truth as long as you* don't try to
use that belief to try to force others to comply with it, and you are
very careful that you don't hurt others with it.  Love your neighbor
seems to go totally out the window when one knows the truth and believes
that everyone should be living by that truth.  Other people have
convictions about the truth every bit as strong and sincere as yours,
based on careful searching, prayer, and their relationship with God.
Don't dismiss them because God didn't lead them to the same conclusions
as yours.

*This is not directed personally at you, Dean.


: > until...and more Saturn retailers are built(like 2 in the same city),
:                        		     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: ...most medium and large cities have...a small handful of Saturn dealers now

Sacramento has two Saturn dealerships.

: Mihir Shah


Does anybody have Bobby's post in which he said something like "I don't
know why there are more men than women in islamic countries. Maybe it's
atheists killing the female children"? It's my personal favorite!


This will be my last post ( promotion ) of the hockey pool.. I will
update the pool ( or try to ) every wednesday

Subject: Please join my hockey playoff pool.
Deadline for pool: Midnight Saturday
Rules: Read on
Cost: NONE
PRIZES: NONE
Send replies to : Montana@pinetree.org

Note: if your entries is send by midnight saturday it will be accepted
      please include your name

               Rules to the ACME hockey playoff pool

Critierias
 Pick 9 forwards  ( as long as they are forwards LW=RW=C is okay)
 Pick 6 defensemen
 ( arrange them in a lines, 3 forwards and two defense = 1 line
 ( and arranged them in line order , which of your players would
 ( play in the first line and which plays in the second line
 Pick 1 designated playmaker
      ( can be any positions...try a defensemen )
 Pick 1 designated scorer ( can be any positions )
 Pick 1 goal-tender
 Pick a team   ( the one you think may win the cup )

 *note: players can only be chosen once !
 ie Cannot have Sakic as forward and again as designated passer
 -----------------------------------------------------------------

 Calculation of points:
  ( except for designated scorer and playmaker)
   1 assist  = 1 pt   IXI  1 goal = 1 pt  II
   ( for players in line 1, their pt totals will be *2 )
          line 1 = pts * 2
          line 2 = pts * 1.5
          line 3 = pts * 1
   1 win     = 2 pt  ( for goalies)

   The team that wins the Cup = 10 pts

For the designated playmaker         Designated
Calculation will be as follows       Scorer:Goal    = 3 pts
Every goal scored = 0.5 points             Assists = 0.5 pts
Every assists     = 2 points

  In the event of a tie, the tie will be broken by unmodified
  Goal totals and then by game winning goals
  ----SAMPLE-------------------------------------
   eg designated scorer = Jeremy Roenick
      Actual: G=12, A=10, Pts=22  Modified G=(12*3) + A=(10*0.5) = 41
   .
       designated playmaker = Steve Smith
      Actual: G=1,  A=11, Pts=12  Modified G=(1*0.5)  + A=(11*2) = 22.5
   .
   line 1 = J Murphy(24)- G Courtnall(14)- M Messier(14)
                   Dave Manson(12)-  Iafrate(7)
       Total points = 142 points for that line!


It's always possible, but if this is the case, I think that there is some
blatant discrimination going on here. Clearly Selig is allowing the opposition
to use pre-1920 baseballs against the Dodgers.

And almost more impressive was that he also got an intentional walk.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
           We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511


"auto
from


I had a GE Emerson 13" color TV for about 3 years and one fine day,
while we were watching something (I doubt if the program was the cause),
we heard a mild explosion.   Our screen went blank but there was sound,
so we thought, 'oh we have special effects on the program'.  But soon
the sound stopped and smoke started to appear at the back of the TV.
The brilliant EEs we are, we unplugged the TV and called customer service
only to be thrown around by please hold, I will transfer u to blah blah..
  Finally we abandoned the idea of trying to fix the TV and got a new one
(we wanted a bigger one too!).
 After all the story, what I wanted to know is: Is my problem an isolated
incident or a common one? (I recall reading about Russian TVs exploding, but
not here, in the US). Why would the picture tube explode or even smoke?
 I still have the left over TV set, I might dig into it this summer. Any
idea where I can get parts for these things? (probably will cost more than TV).


Hmmm. I seem to recall that the attraction of solid state record-
players and radios in the 1960s wasn't better performance but lower
per-unit cost than vacuum-tube systems.

	Mind you, my father was a vacuum-tube fan in the 60s (Switched
to solid-state in the mid-seventies and then abruptly died; no doubt
there's a lesson in that) and his account could have been biased.


I hope you're not going to flame him.  Please give him the same coutesy you'
ve given me.


I have the same problem and was about to post this....

Hello duo owners (and Apple technical people :-)

I have a new duo 230 which appears to have a problem waking up from
sleep when running on battery power. When woken (usually for the second
time) after sleeping, the wake fails and the screen appears with a
corrupted image of broken horizontal lines and control can only be
recovered with control-command-poweron or the reset key at the back of
the machine. The problem occurs even when the system is stock standard
(no extensions, no virtual memory, a fully charged new battery, system 7.1
etc). I have not had the problem when the machine is plugged in to AC.
I've checked that the battery is properly seated (it appears to be fine).

What's going on here ? Anyone else had this problem ? Is it software or
hardware ?

If you have a duo 230 and a bit of time, try repeatedly sleeping and
waking the machine on battery power and let me know if you see the same
behaviour (and let Apple know too !).

Many thanks to anyone who can clear this one up for me.

Bruce


   A program in the archive keymap00.zip on simtel and mirror sites in the
msdos/keyboard directory will do this.  It is written in assembler and it
best if you have a compiler to create a new keyboard map.  It is possible,
however, to use a binary editor to edit the provided compiled keyboard
driver if you do not have a compiler.  I used hexed100.zip, also available
on simtel.  Simply serach for the codes 00 01 02 03 to locate the biginning
of the "normal" keyboard map.  Then swap the codes for the keys that you
wish to swap.  See the keyboard directory of simtel for programs that report
the scancode for each key to you (some bios programs also have this info).
Good luck,

- Pete
____________________________________________________________________________


i installed dos 6 last week, and had nothing but trouble afterwards.
windows apps are hitting protection faults more than a kid can do
to a pinata, and it does not seem to like to work with NDOS (norton
dos 7.0).  other probs include:

set pcplus=d:\pcplus for procomm plus no longer works.
many of the little utilities to written for dos no longer works
	either. (mostly shareware)

i now have uninstalled dos 6 , and dos 5 works just fine.
are there any apps that dos 6 will be able to run that dos 5 wont?


Replace "Stephen" with "David Joslin," since you directed the same
    In t.r.m. Robert Weiss writes [a promise from Psalm 9:10]
    Gee, since you wouldn't be at all hypocritical, you must be really
    busy arguing against these out-of-context extracted translations!

As you may recall, you mailed me six mail messages quoting articles by
Robert Weiss, all sent within a few minutes of each other.  You added:
    Naturally, I await your arguments against this out-of-context
    translation.  But I shall not await holding my breath...
and
    Wonder when you get to sleep, disputing all these out-of-context
    extracted translations!
and other similar comments.

Perhaps you could explain why you ever thought that I might have a
reason to read all of these articles you pulled off of t.r.m, much
less write responses to them?

I am familiar with inductive logic.  Go ahead and give me the details
of the "logic" that led you to conclude, incorrectly, that I would
condone Robert Weiss taking verses out of context.  Your conclusion was
wrong, of course, since I agree that both you and Robert Weiss were
guity of taking verses out of context.  Nothing hypocritical about
that, is there?

Since you reached a false conclusion, you made some mistake in your
"logic."  The only question is where.  Did you think that it would
be hypocritical for me not to post a reply to Robert Weiss' articles?
Did you make the common creationist error of confusing a lack of
evidence for X with evidence for the lack of X?   Is your grasp of
inductive logic not quite as firm as you think? See if you can figure
out what your mistake was, and learn from it.


Hi,

I've got a Victor PC/XT with a 20 MB harddisk in it. The controller is
a Toshiba MFM controller, with an additional 9 pins connector.

There are 2 busses from my harddisk to this controller. One with 9 wires
and another with 34 wires.

The controller has two connectors for a 9 wire-bus and one for a 34 wire
bus.

Now I got a 20 MB harddisk from a friend of mine, and I wondered whether
I can connect this second harddisk to the same controller (there is room
for a 9 wire-bus, but not for the 34 wire bus)

How can I solve my problem, any suggestions?

If you need more info, mail me, please (luttik@fwi.uva.nl).


I have a modest system of aliases/macros that enables me to download
mail from a public access UNIX system to my MS-DOS box. I read and reply
to the mail with a MS Windows 3.1 based editor.

Everything works peachey keen as long as the author of the message has
maintained his text at 80 col. max. width. Sometimes I get slightly wider
messages that run off-screen, so I have to use the cursor/slider to read
the whole thing.

I'm using NDW Deskedit mainly, but I've experienced the same prob with
all other MS WIndows editors. I've fiddled with word wrap settings in
the various editors, but to no avail. I know I'm missing something very
basic in editor setup, but what is it?

Oh yeah, MS Word for Windows converts everything flawlessly but for what
I'm looking for that's like using a tank to crack walnuts.

I'd really like to have an editor setup that would display all incoming
ASCII files in a readable format to my screen.

Thanks in advance,


Does anyone out there know if there are print drivers for Windows for the
Panasonic KX-P1091i 9-pin dot matrix printer?


       Here's a question:  If most marijuana is domestic and
producing it here is economical, why would we expect it to be
imported?

       Yet it was done.  Done quite successfully for a number of years.
*Somebody* thought it was worth the risk.

       Your assumption is that this "low" dollar/pound area is
sufficiently low as to make gun-running unprofitable.  On what
do you base this?

       And given that smuggling channels are already established,
and given the economies of scale, would it really add significantly
more expense to start smuggling firearms, especially considering
doing so would be less hazardous (in terms of getting caught) than
drugs?

       Now *that* was a jump.  In any case, define "local."  It's
a big country.

       Wow, you gotta love the speculation.

       As I posted before, we import billions upon billions of raw
ores across the Mexican border.  Not only that but ships come in and
out of U.S. harbors every day full stuff.  And customs doesn't even
have the extra advantage of being able to sniff them out.

       I'd be willing to wager that a shipload of handguns would be
worth more than a shipload of raw ore, *and* you're virtually guaranteed
to get it past customs, because they'd have to hand search every hold of
every ship which came through.

       It's not simply a matter of how much money are they worth, but how
much *more* money are they worth than other goods, based on the likelihood
of being caught.  Less money than drugs, but also a safer thing to smuggle.


                                                 ^
I'd make that, "1 BIG, MAD, and HUNGRY with CUBS NEARBY Polar bear @..."

Drew


THE FOLLOWING POSTING WAS FORGED IN MY NAME! PLEASE IGNORE SUCH POSTINGS!

[FORGED] Newsgroups:soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.
[FORGED] soviet,soc.culture.greek
[FORGED] From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
[FORGED] News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
[FORGED] Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
[FORGED] Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 21:36:00 GMT
[FORGED] Lines: 293
[FORGED]
[FORGED] Dear friends,
[FORGED]
[FORGED] I am a graduate student in Education at the University of Tennessee.
[FORGED]
  .
  .
  .
[FORGED]
[FORGED]
[FORGED]                         __QUESTIONNAIRE__
[FORGED]                  Teaching Music for deaf children.
[FORGED]
[FORGED] NAME ________________________________
[FORGED] ADDRESS/ E-MAIL _____________________
[FORGED] EMPLOYING INSTITUTION _______________
[FORGED] YEARS OF EXPERIENCE_________ GRADE LEVEL(S)____
[FORGED] EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND:BACHELOR__ MASTERS__ DOCTORATE__
[FORGED] PROFESSIONAL FIELD:SPECIAL EDUC.__  MUSIC EDUC.__ OTHER*__

THE ABOVE POSTING WAS FORGED IN MY NAME! PLEASE IGNORE SUCH POSTINGS!


Do you have a terminal cold? Karabag is 'Turkish' and will remain
'Turkish'. Here we are, almost at the end of the 20th century, and
a whole community, the Azeri Turks of x-Soviet Armenia and Karabag,
is facing forced assimilation, torture and murder on one hand and
forced exodus, expulsion and genocide on the other, all because
of their ethnic and religious background. And one should ask herself:
is the world community really so powerless? Where are all those human
rights advocates? Where are all the decent people? Are we going to
let this human tragedy go on and do nothing about it? The number
of Azeris murdered by the terrorist Armenian army and its savage
gangs is increasing. On the one hand they wish to distort the truth
and on the other, they beg mercy from Turkiye.

        The Age...Melbourne...6/3/92

        By Helen WOMACK  .... Agdam, Azerbaijan, Thursday

        The exact number of victims is still unclear,  but there can be
        little  doubt that Azeri civilians were massacred  by  Armenian
        fighters in the snowy mountains of Nagorno-Karabakh last week.

        Refugees  from the enclave town of Khojaly,  sheltering in  the
        Azeri border town of Agdam, give largely consistent accounts of
        how  their  enemies  attacked their homes on the  night  of  25
        February,    chased  those  who  fled  and  shot  them  in  the
        surrounding forests. Yesterday, I saw 75  freshly dug graves in
        one  cemetery  in  addition to four mutilated corpses  we  were
        shown in the mosque when we arrived in Agdam late on Tuesday. I
        also  saw women and children with bullet wounds in a  makeshift
        hospital in a string of railway carriages.

        Khojaly, an Azeri settlement in the enclave mostly populated by
        Armenians,  had a population of about 6000. Mr.  Rashid Mamedov
        Commander of Police in Agdam,  said  only about 500  escaped to
        his  town.   " So where are the rest?".  Some might have  taken
        prisoner, he said, or fled. Many bodies were still lying in the
        mountains  because  the  Azeris were short  of  helicopters  to
        retrieve them. He believed more than 1000 had perished, some of
        cold in temperatures as low as minus 10 degrees.

        One  refugee,  Rami Nasiru,  described how Khojaly residents at
        first thought the attack was no more than the routine  shooting
        to  which they had become accustomed in four years of conflict.
        But  when  they  saw the Armenians with  a  convoy  of  armored
        personnel carriers, they realised they could not hope to defend
        themselves  with  machineguns and grenades,  and fled into  the
        forests. In the small hours, the massacre started.

        Mr.  Nasiru,  who believes his wife and two children were taken
        prisoner,   repeated what many other refugees have said -  that
        troops of the former Soviet army helped the Armenians to attack
        Khojaly. "It is not my opinion, I saw it with my own eyes."

Serdar Argic


Hello to everybody,
I write here because I am kind of desperate. For about six weeks, I've been
suffering on pains in my left head side, the left leg and sometimes the left
arm. I made many tests (e.g. computer tomography, negative, lyme borreliosis,
negative, all electrolytes in the blood in their correct range), they're
all o.K., so I should be healthy. As a matter of fact, I am not feeling so.
I was also at a Neurologist's too, he considered me healthy too.

The blood tests have shown that I have little too much of Hemoglobin (17.5,
common range is 14 to 17, I unfortunately do not know about the units).
Could these hemi-sided pains be the result of this or of a also possible
block of the neck muscles ?

I have no fever, and I am not feeling entirely sick, but neither entirely
healthy.

Please answer by direct email on <ghilardi@urz.unibas.ch>

Thanks for every hint


LISTOWNER: I have sent this to Mr Anderson privately. Post it only
if you think it of general interest.

Here is a copy of something I wrote for another list. You may
find it relevant.

A listmember asks:

 > What makes common-law marriages wrong?

A common-law marriage is not necessarily wrong in itself. There is
nothing in the Bible (Old or New Testament) about getting married by
a preacher, or by a priest (Jewish or Christian). And in fact Jewish
priests have never had any connection with weddings.

There is a common notion that the marriage is performed by the
clergyman. In fact, the traditional Christian view (at least in the
West) is that the bride and groom are the ministers of the marriage,
and that the clergyman is there only as a witness.

HOWEVER!

The essential ingredient of a marriage is mutual commitment. Two
persons are considered to be married if and only if they have bound
themselves by mutual promises to live together as husband and wife,
forsaking all others, till death do them part.

      The reason why those who have reason to be concerned about who
is married to whom have always insisted on some kind of public
ceremony is in order that society, and the couple themselves, may be
clear about whether a commitment has been made.

Suppose that we do away with the public ceremony, the standard vows,
etc. Instead, we have a man and a woman settling down to live
together.
      After a year or so, the man says to the woman: Hey, honey, it
was great while it lasted, but I think it's time to move on.
younger.
ocean, as eternal as the stars. As long as I live, I am yours,
utterly and completely. When I lie on my deathbed, my last feeble
breath will utter your name. My..."
man is in a romantic mood, he is bound to say all kinds of silly
things like that. You mustn't take them literally.

And that is why you have an insistence on a formal ceremony that is
a matter of public record.
      The Church insists on it, because it is her duty (among other
things) to give moral advice, and you cannot give a man moral advice
about his relations with a woman if you have no idea who is married
to whom, if anybody, and vice versa.
      The State insists on it, since the state has a concern with
property rights, with child care and support, and therefore needs to
know who has made what commitments to whom.
      Prospective fathers-in-law insist on it, because they don't
want their daughters seduced and abandoned.
      Prospective spouses insist on it, because they want to make
sure they know whether what they are hearing is a real commitment,
or just "poetry."
      And persons making vows themselves insist on making them
formally and publicly, in order that they may be clear in their own
minds about what it is that they are doing, and may know themselves
that this is not just rhetoric. This is the real thing.

      Hence the insistence on a formal public explicit avowal of the
marriage commitment.  The Church goes further and insists that, when
Christians marry, a clergyman shall be present at the wedding and
record the vows on behalf of the Church, not because it is
impossible to have a valid wedding without a clergyman, but in order
to make sure that the couple understand what the Christian teaching
about marriage is, and that they are in fact promising to be married
in a Christian sense. The Church also prefers a standard marriage
vow, and is wary of letting couples Write their own vows, for much
the same reason that lawyers prefer standard terminology when they
draw up a will or a contract. Certain language has been repeatedly
used in wills, and one can be sure how the courts will interpret it.
Try to say the same thing in your own words, and you may find that
the probate judge's interpretation of them is not at all what you
intended.  Similarly, the Church prefers to avoid endless debates
about whether "You are my main squeeze" and "I am here for the long
haul" do in fact cover the same territory as "forsaking all others"
and "till death do us part."

      This topic has come up on the list before. (Is there any topic
that hasn't?) One listmember was asking, "If a couple love each
other and are living together, isn't that marriage in the eyes of
God?" Eventually someone asked, "In that case, what is their status
if they break up? Is that the moral equivalent of getting a divorce?
Are they in a relationship that God forbids either of them to walk
of that!" In fact, there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that
someone who says, "We don't need a piece of paper or a ceremony in
front of a judge or a preacher in order to show that we love each
other," is trying to have it both ways -- to have the advantages of
marriage plus the option of changing his mind with a minimum of
bother.

At this point someone may say, "None of this applies to me and my
mate. We are quite clear on the fact that we have assumed a lifelong
commitment, 'for better or worse, forsaking all others, till death
us do part.' So in our case, no ceremony is needed."
     To this my reply would be: The reason for requiring a driver's
license is to keep dangerous drivers off the road.  What is wrong in
itself is not the existence of unlicensed drivers, but the existence
of dangerous drivers. However, testing and licensing drivers is an
obvious and reasonable means of pursuing the goal of reducing the
number of dangerous drivers on the road. Therefore the State rightly
makes and enforces such laws, and you the citizen have a positive
moral obligation to refrain from driving without a license no matter
how much of a hotshot behind the wheel you think you are.

Back to the original question. We have a listmember who knows a
couple who have been living together for around 20 years. He asks:
At what point did they stop fornicating and start being married? I
answer: at the point, if any, where they both definitely and
explicitly accepted an obligation to be faithful to each other, for
better or worse, as long as they both lived. If they have accepted
such an obligation, what are their reasons for not being willing to
declare it in front of, say, a justice of the peace?


Be very careful when you plug in a external monitor and a external speaker.
Make sure that all the power cords are in the same strip.  If you don't you
take a chance of having a very bad audio buzz.  This is caused be a "ground loop" and the only way of getting rid of this loud buzz is to make sure that you
have a common ground.
Make sure that all the power cords are going in to the same strip or off the
same outlet.  This will assure you of a common ground.


Well i'm not sure about the story nad it did seem biased. What
I disagree with is your statement that the U.S. Media is out to
ruin Israels reputation. That is rediculous. The U.S. media is
the most pro-israeli media in the world. Having lived in Europe
I realize that incidences such as the one described in the
letter have occured. The U.S. media as a whole seem to try to
ignore them. The U.S. is subsidizing Israels existance and the
Europeans are not (at least not to the same degree). So I think
that might be a reason they report more clearly on the
atrocities.
	What is a shame is that in Austria, daily reports of
the inhuman acts commited by Israeli soldiers and the blessing
received from the Government makes some of the Holocaust guilt
go away. After all, look how the Jews are treating other races
when they got power. It is unfortunate.


Yes, however, with the top off and the rear window down this car is more
like a convertible than a coupe.  Think of it as a convertible with an
integrated roll-bar like addition.


This is silly. Is Unix a mature OS? Depends on who you ask, and how
you define mature. System 7 is, if anything, less mature than Windows 3.1.

So why do you need something like BeHierarchic to create groups under
the Apple Menu? Everyone knows that Apple Menu Items are a ripoff of
the Program Manager. If you want a hierarchic program launcher there
are lots available.

And this is easy on a Mac? Give me a break. Having spent hours moving
System Extensions around and restarting the Mac to see why a certain
app crashes all the time, I find this laughable.

Oh great. Ever hear of aliases? Wonder why Apple implemented them.

Eh?? I don't follow.

Why is it that I find the Mac desktop incredibly annoying whenever I
use it?

Yeah right. You post flame bait, yet ask for no flames.

--


zillion lines in response to article <1993Apr18.034101.21934@iti.org>,
in which Allen wrote a zillion lines in response to article
<17APR199316423628@judy.uh.edu>, in which Dennis wrote another zillion
lines in response to Allen.

Hey, can it you guys. Take it to email, or talk.politics.space, or
alt.flame, or alt.music.pop.will.eat.itself.the.poppies.are.on.patrol,
or anywhere, but this is sci.space. This thread lost all scientific
content many moons ago.


Sorry to disappoint you but the Red Wings earned the victory...easily.

I watched most of the game on ESPN (as soon as I realized that they
were televising the game which was at the beginning of the second).
The Maple Leafs were flat.  Very flat.  Meanwhile, the Red Wings were
skating very freely and dictating the pace of the game.  I didn't
detect any bad penalty calls (Van Hellemond did his usual good job).
Toronto looked like how I expected them to for their first playoff
game in a few years -- nervous.

For the Leafs sake, I hope they can rid themselves of the butterflies
for game 2.  If game 1 is indicative of the series, it's gonna go
quick.


Not according to the NEC nor the CEC, as explained in the electrical wiring
FAQ, which I posted here separately.  Note the material under the headings

and

Of course, as they said -- "Local codes may vary".

I'm not sure about this.  If the ground connections on the outlets are
connected to anything, they should be connected to a wire that runs back to the
main panel, where it is bonded to the neutral connector and to the house ground
rod.  A connection to a local earth ground would not necessarily meet one of
the goals of the ground wire, which is that if a short develops from hot
to the ground wire, enough current would flow to trip the breaker.

Hmmm.  How are those orange "isolated ground" outlets (often used in
computer rooms) wired?


Apple does not authorise sales through Mail Order.  As a result mail order
companies have to obtain their machines by the grey market.

This market is supplied with machines from authorised resellers who have
more machines than they can sell.  They come into this state of affairs
by overordering either accidentally or deliberatly to get a better
wholsale price from Apple.  In either case they often obscure the serial
nunber to protect their identity.  As a result the warranty is void.

You may save on sales tax but you have to pay for shipping.

I should also point out that mail order companies cannot get lower prices
thatn the high volume authorised dealers unless they buy below dealer
cost.  As a result the only way they can sell cheaper is by cutting costs
and trimming margins.  Unfortunatly they dont seem to be doing too well.
The lowest prices I have been quoted mailorder do not beat the lowest
prices available from authorised local dealers.

They are even further away from educational prices.


The speculum is the little cone that fits on the end of the otoscope.
There are also vaginal specula that females and gynecologists are
all too familiar with.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon."


At the Lester Patrick Awards lunch, Bill Torrey mentioned that one of his
options next season is to be president of the Miami team, with Bob Clarke
working for him.  At the same dinner, Clarke said that his worst mistake
in Philadelphia was letting Mike Keenan go -- in retrospect, almost all
players came realize that Keenan knew what it took to win.  Rumours are
now circulating that Keenan will be back with the Flyers.

Nick Polano is sick of being a scapegoat for the schedule made for the
Red Wings; After all, Bryan Murray approved it.

Gerry Meehan and John Muckler are worried over the Sabres' prospects;
Assistant Don Lever says that the Sabres have to get their share now,
because a Quebec dynasty is emerging ...

The Mighty Ducks have declared that they will not throw money around
loosely to buy a team.

Oilers coach Ted Green remarked that "There some guys around who can
fill Tie Domi's skates, but none who can fill his helmet."

Senators' Andrew McBain told off a security guard at Chicago Stadium
who warned him of the stairs leading down to the locker room; McBain
mouthed off at him, after all being a seasoned professional ... and
tumbled down the entire steep flight.

gld


Undoubtedly.  In fact, it is the fact that hospitals frequently compete
for physicians rather than for patients that (in part) complicates and
undermines a simplistic free-market analysis of the market for medical care.

Once again, there is no evidence that this is true in regard to kidney
dialysis.  Although price controls have promoted an expansion of services
to a much greater volume of patients, RD is still a profitable service.
Otherwise, one would expect to see evidence of rationing rather than the
vast expansion that has occurred.

Can you spell "loss leader?"  I knew you could.  Grocery stores do not
attempt to make up the loss on an individual product by selling more of
it.  In fact, your argument above is that kidney dialysis is a loss leader
for other medical treatments where lost revenue can be regained.

But the evidence does not support this contention.  Rather, it appears that
price controls have disciplined the market by forcing an expansion of
service and development of improved lower-cost technology to provide
comparable benefits.  Providers continue to profit from RD, they simply
make less on each treatment than they would have if the price had
risen at the rate that uncontrolled treatments have.

There is no question that had price controls forced the price of RD
substantially below its actual cost that some or all of the doomsday
predictions of free-market advocates would have been seen -- restriction
of service, lagging technological development, etc.  Likewise, it appears
that in the VA and armed forces medical care systems, where providers
are government agencies, some of these negative impacts may occur.
(RD patients in the VA system in Spokane, for example, must travel to
Seattle, 300 miles away, for treatment.)

The bottom line, however, is that this is an example of government
intervention (of a rather extreme sort) that appears to have had beneficial
results for both providers and consumers.  Claims that "government
bureaucracy" inevitably leads to undesirable outcomes in the marketplace
should take such such cases into account.

jsh


I need help binding some value to the HOME and END keys on my keyboard.  I have an
rs/6000 w/ aix3.2.3ext running X11R5pl19 mit dist.  I'm using a PC running eXceed
for windows as my xterminal.  The HOME and END keys do not send a value, and my
application needs them to be defined.  I used this in my Xdefaults to define the
keys:

varnet*VT100.Translations: #override \
    <Key>Home: string("\033[8~") \n\
    <Key>End: string("\033[7~")

Then I xterm -name varnet.  This works perfect, however the 7 and the 1 key on my
keypad are also defined as \033[8~ and \033[7~.

Any ideas?  Help please.

Thanks.


No, no, we aren't talking about receptors for the brain's sensory
innervation, but structures such as the thalamus that handle pain
for the entire organism.  Apples and oranges.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon."


Preliminary negotiations started already, I believe.  Though the word
is that they are going slooooooooooooooooooooooowly.


Interesting is rigth.. I wonder if they will make a mention of her being an
astronaut in the credits.. I think it might help people connect the future of
space with the present.. And give them an idea that we must go into space..


[ANAS] A high rank Israeli officer was killed during a clash whith a Hamas
[ANAS] Mujahid.  The terrorist Israelis chased and killed a young Mujahid
[ANAS] using anti-tank missiles.  The terrorist zionists cut the Mujahid's
[ANAS] body into small pieces to the extend that his body was not recognized.
[ANAS] At leat ten houses were destroyed by these atni-tank missiles.

If indeed Israeli soldiers killed a "Hamas Mujahid" with an anti-tank missile
then I'm almost sure that the "terrorist zionists" would not have been able
to cut up a body which was probably desintegrated by the missile.

Stop polluting the net with you fantasies.

Tsiel


I'm having an X resource problem using Brian Wilson's wscrawl 2.0
(a wonderful interactive conferencing program, by the way).  I'm
running OpenWindows 3.0 on a SPARC 1+ under OS 4.1.3.  I have
the following defaults in my .Xdefaults file (among many others):
  wscrawl.telePointerName:	Kevin
  wscrawl.syncScrollbars:		True
  wscrawl.continuousTelePointer:	True
  wscrawl.showPointerCoordinates:	False
  wscrawl*background:		LightBlue
  wscrawl*swindow*foreground:	yellow
  wscrawl*draw_area_frame*foreground:	Blue
  wscrawl*keyboardFocusPolicy:	pointer

Naturally, I exited the server and restarted it after adding
those lines to .Xdefaults .

If I run the following from a cmdtool (pwd = my home dir.):
  xrdb -m .Xdefaults
and then start up wscrawl, then all those defaults are used
properly.  Wonderful, yes?  Except that I can't get them to be
operative except by *manually* invoking the afore-mentioned
xrdb command.  If I try:
  xrdb .Xdefaults
the defaults "won't take."

So, I tried to change the xrdb call in my .xinitrc file from:
  xrdb  $HOME/.Xdefaults
to:
  xrdb -m $HOME/.Xdefaults

No go.  So I tried adding in:
  xrdb -m /home/kbw/.Xdefaults
at the beginning or end of my .openwin-init file.  Still no go.

Any notions what gives?  Thanks for the help.


I'm buying a new system this week to replace my brain dead 286, and
could use some feedback on a couple systems I'm looking at if anyone is
familiar with them.

        The system that looks the most interesting is the Budget 486/66 VLB
tower.  For about $2343 (delivered) it offers VLB, 8MB, 200MB IDE, a Mitsumi
CD-ROM (with software bundle), Media Vision Sound board, 14" CTX 1468NI,
128K Cache, and the usual drives, ports, & OS software.  Since my budget is
$2350 for a system, it seems almost too good to be true (which may mean it
IS too good to be true, of course). Among other things, I've never seen a
review of the Budget systems (or their parent company, Micro Smart), or of
the motherboard they are using (the Aetana). Any feedback would be
appreciated.

        In a similar vein, the second system I'm considering Midwest Micro's
Elite VESA 486/66 tower with a Diamond Viper (2MB) & Midwest Micro 14" MI
monitor is one I've never seen reviewed anywhere.  I'm familiar with the
firm but not the product line - and some idea of their quality would be abig
benefit here as well.

        Any other suggestions in the price range would be appreciated - my
greatest needs are speed and graphics capabilities.

	Email response would be greatly appreciated.

	Thanks,

--


Well, I didn't bother writing to Boxer, Feinstein or Eshoo, the terrible
trio who allegly represent me.  Instead, I wrote to Bentsen.  My letter
was not exactly strongly-worded; I simply stated that the BATF approach
was immoral (military-style assault, firing into a house where they knew
there were kids).

Aparently, Bentsen forwarded my letter to the BATF and they responded to
me directly.  It follows the text of your reply pretty closely.  However,
I intend to send another letter directly to them, in return.

This section is not in the letter that I received.  The parts about ATF
logo and steenking badges or their loss of the element of surprise
were not included, either.

The same guy with the bad handwriting apparently signed my letter, "for
Richard L. Garner; Chief, Special Operations Division".