I have attached a copy of an announcement I picked up during my trip to
Moscow last week.  I have several friends at the Moscow Aviation
Institute who have asked me to post this announcement.  (I have done
some editing, but the contents is unchanged from the original
announcement.)

For those of you not familiar with the Moscow Aviation Institute, it is
the leading Russian school of higher education dedicated to the training
of aircraft and spacecraft designers.  It specializes in airframe
design, powerplant design, control systems, and power systems.
Virtually all of the major former Soviet airframe designers (Tupolev,
Su, Iluchine, Migoyan, etc.) were schooled at MAI.

I had the opportunity to tour the two museums that are maintained at
MAI.  The aircraft include Mig23, Su 27, Yak 38, the cockpit of an
F-111(!), among others.  It was a fascinating and eye opening
experience, expecially given the fact that the museum was, until a year
or so ago, closed to virtually everyone.  I also had the opportunity to
see some of the experiments being conducted with plasma drive engines
for future space craft use.

If you have any questions about the Institute, or the program, I would
be glad to try and answer them.  The institute, and most of it's faculty
have e-mail addresses.  However, it takes about a day or so for the
receiver to get the message.  They are still a bit antiquated - but they
are rapidly changing!

Steve Emmett
semmett@gmuvax2.gmu.edu

ps  please send any questions you have for me via e-mail.  George Mason
university has about a 2 week (!) delay in news feed delivery.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

		MOSCOW INTERNATIONAL AVIATION SCHOOL

The aviation school "Poljot" (meaning Flight) is organized by the the
Moscow Aviation Institute, the prominent Russian Center of airspace
education and the foreign trade firm Poljot, well known in various
parts of the world for their quartz and mechanical wrist watches.

The course of studies will last only 50 days, but during this time
you will have the unique opportunity:
	- to listen to intensive courses on the main aviation
disciplines, the history and theory of techniques, and design of
airplanes;
	- to visit and get acquainted with the world known Russian
aviation firms - TU, MiG, Yak, Il and Su;
	- to meet and have discussions with famous aviation
scientists, engineers and pilots;
	- to visit the most interesting museums of unique aviation
techniques which were closed for many years to the public;
	- to see the International Airspace Show which will take
place in Moscow from 31 August through 3 September 1993;
	- to visit famous art museums, historical and architectural
monuments, theatres and concert halls;
	- to take part in sport competitions and have a great time
with new friends.

The Director of the school is Mr. Oleg Samelovich, a well known
Russian scientist, professor, general designer and the Chief of the
Airplanes Design Department of the Moscow Aviation Institute.  Mr.
Samelovich is one of the designers of the the Su-24, Su-25, and Su-27

The lectures are given in English, using a multi-media concept.  The
students are provided with all the necessary text books and
literature.  After the full course of studies are completed, the
student will receive a special certificate of graduation.

The cost of studies, including hotel, meals, excursions, theatres,
etc is $3500.

To apply for admission, send your application to:

109147 Moscow Marksistskaja 34
Foreign Trade Firm "Poljot"
274 00 13 (phone)
274 00 22 (FAX)
411989 POLEX SU (telex)

In your application, include your full name, address, date and place
of birth.  In addition, include complete passport information, as well
as a description of your education.

Upon receipt of this information, "Poljot" will immediately forward
to you an official invitation for obtaining a Russian entrance visa
as well as details on payment.

Should you require additional information, please do not hesitate to
contact us.

(signed)	O. Samelovich

------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

Steve Emmett				 semmett@gmuvax2.gmu.edu


Here are my predictions (try not to laugh hysterically)
Somebody save this so I can laugh when I win my own pool.
I don't have prizes, but we all love BRAGGING RIGHTS, so winner takes them.

Also.  If somebody has some sort of scoring system let me know.
I was thinking 1 for 1st round victories, 2 for second, 3 for 3rd, 4 for 4th
But we may get alot of ties.  Any ideas?

1. BUFFALO
2. MONTREAL
3. PITTSBURGH
4. WASHINGTON
5. CHICAGO
6. TORONTO
7. WINNIPEG
8. LOS ANGELES

9. MONTREAL
10.PITTSBURGH
11.CHICAGO
12.WINNIPEG

13.MONTREAL
14.CHICAGO

15. MONTREAL


Hi Everybody,

      I am interested in the following topics.

1)BIOS programming on 286 and 386.
2)Memory management in 286 and 386.
3)Developing Visual Basic Custom Controls.

     I would like to have your valuable opinion on the books
that are best in the above topics.  Please send a mail to
rmehta@paul.rutgers.edu . I will post a summary of the
suggestions.

  2**32-1  thanks in advance.


I just wanted to let everyone know that I have lost what little respect I have
for Jim LeFebvre after seeing today's Cubs game. First of all how could he
start Maldonado over May. After the way May played at the end of last year and
the way he tore up the Cactus League how could you let him sit the bench? Not
to mention that a right hander (Maddux) started. I really blew my top when
Lefebvre pinch hit for Rick Wilkins with TOMMY SHIELDS! How can you do that
just because of the lefty-righty thing, too much is made of that. Wilkins is
twice the hitter that Shields is. Then the next batter was Jose Vizcaino, one
of the weakest hitters I have ever seen, and who had looked terrible at bat all
day, and Lefebre let him hit, while May still sat the bench. I think even Arnie
Harris was stunned by this because he showed May sitting in the dugout while
Vizcaino was batting. Face it Lefebvre has got to be the worst manager in
baseball.
						A dishard Cub fan


   Other idea for old space crafts is as navigation beacons and such..
   Why not??

Because to be any use as a nav point you need to know -exactly- where
it is, which means you either nail it to something that doesn't move
or you watch it all the time.  Neither of which is possible on a
deactivated spacecraft.  Then you have to know exactly how far away
from it you are; this may or may not be possible with the hardware on
board.

Apart from which, there is absolutely no need for navigation beacons.


The Phillies were picked to be in first.
Someone replied that the people who picked them were the same people who
picked the Mets last year.

My reply:  Yeah, that may be true, but this IS the Phillies.


   > [A very nice article on the DSS, which I thought answered
   >  David Cruz-Uribe's original queries quite well]

   Here are some books I have read recently that helped me not only
   prepare for a 5 week series I taught in Sunday School, but greatly
   increased my knowledge of the Qumran scrolls. [...]

One other recent book I would heartily recommend is Joseph Fitzmyer's
_Response to 101 Questions about the Dead Sea Scrolls_ (Paulist,
1992).

Fitzmyer is one of the preeminent modern NT scholars.  He was also one
of the early workers on the DSS.  His book is written in a
straightforward Q&A that allows it to serve as a source for a great
wealth of clearly presented basic, up-to-the-moment information about
the DSS.

(This book is something of a companion volume to Raymond Brown's
_Response to 101 Questions about the Dead Sea Scrolls_.)

Nichael


Having read the various "Clipper" announcements on the net over the last few
days and a LOT of uninformed speculation about the chip, its uses,
government plots, etc, I have the following questions.

  1) What does the "Clipper chip" actually implement? Just the Skipjack
	cryptographic algorithm? Or does it also implement a "chip to chip"
	communications protocol? If it does implement a communications
	protocol, can it be used as just a "crypt chip" also.

  2) Where can the chip specifications and spec sheets be obtained?

  3) Who may purchase them and under what conditions?

  4) Are there restrictions as to how the chip may be used in a system?

  5) The security of the algorithm and the encrypted communications does
	not appear to require that the "Family key" be a secret. Why is
	it a secret? What happens when the "family key" becomes well known?
	If it's a secret to make traffic analysis more difficult, does
	the "Law enforcement message" contain any random information?
	How much and how random is it?

  6) Can the chip be programmed to reveal the "Unit key"? The chip "serial
	number"? Any of the programming parameters?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raymond S. Brand					rbrand@usasoc.soc.mil


Thanks for the information!

I assume p is the semi-major axis and e the eccentricity.  The peri-
helion and aphelion are then given by p(1-e) and p(1+e), i.e., about
2.90 and 3.95 AU respectively.  For Jupiter, they are 4.95 and 5.45 AU.
If 1977 was after the temporary capture, this means that the comet
ended up in an orbit that comes no closer than 1 AU to Jupiter's --
which I take to be a rough indication of how far from Jupiter it could
get under Jupiter's influence.

Where 1 Jupiter radius = 71,000 km = 44,000 mi = 0.0005 AU.  So the
1970 figure seems unlikely to actually be anything but a perijove.
Is that the case for the 1973 figure as well?
--
Mark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto		"Remember the Golgafrinchans"
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com					-- Pete Granger


I have heard that epileptic patients go into seizures if they
eat anything with MSG added.  This may have something to do with
the excitotoxicity of neurons.


He doesn't contradict himself.  The church is to last for all time.
However, there are those who use the church to bolster themselves.  This
is evident in many letters.  For instance, Paul talks about the
"super-apostles" to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11-12), he mentions
how people will be led away by miracles, signs, and wonders (2
Thessalonians 2:9-12), he tells Timothy that it is clear that some will
abandon the faith and teach lies (1 Timothy 4:1-3) and that some will
search for teachers to suit what they want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
Such passages go throughout the letters and Jesus does warn about them
(Matthew 24:4-14).  But look at the promise in this last part.  Verse
14:  "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world
as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."  Even today,
there are false teachings.  I can name two which I am well familiar
with:  the non-need of baptism and the "praying of Jesus into your life
for salvation".  Both are taught.  Both are DEAD wrong.  They have been
taken out of context from some verses, interpreted from others, and just
plain made up.  The ONLY way Jesus taught is given in Luke 9:23-26 and
Luke 14:25-33.  He then commands baptism in Matthew 28:18-20.  The
church Jesus founded, though, is alive and well.  It's not being
persecuted as much as back then (the laws won't allow it yet), but it is
being persecuted.

Joe Fisher


: > Last year the US suffered almost 10,000 wrongful or accidental
: > deaths by handguns alone (FBI statistics).  In the same year, the UK
: > suffered 35 such deaths (Scotland Yard statistics).  The population
: > of the UK is about 1/5 that of the US (10,000 / (35 * 5)).  Weighted
: > for population, the US has 57x as many handgun-related deaths as the
: > UK.  And, no, the Brits don't make up for this by murdering 57x as
: > many people with baseball bats.

: You just can't compare this way!  All homicides must be shown, per capita, not
: just handguns.  The availability of them in the USA makes them the preferred
: murder weapon, but ban them, and some other weapon will step in as the
: favorite.

As a "favorite", sure.  As lethal, not likely.  A study of violence in
Chicago produced this table:

		Percentage of Reported Gun and Knife Attacks
			    Resulting in Death

	Weapon				Deaths As Percentage of Attacks
	---------------------------------------------------------------
	Knives (16,518 total attacks)		 2.4
	Guns (6,350 total attacks)		12.2

	Source: Firearms and Violence in American Life

It might be contended that if gun murderers were deprived of guns
that they would find a way to kill as often with knives.  If this were
so, knife attacks in cities where guns were widely used in homicide
would be expected to show a low fatality rate, and knife attacks in
cities where guns were not so widely used (like Vancouver) would show
a higher fatality rate.  But the Nat'l Commission on the Causes and
Prevention of Violence Task Force analyzed the data and found this
not to be the case.  It appeared to them that as the number of knife
attacks increased in relation to the number of firearms attacks
(which presumably happened where guns were less available to assailants),
the proportion of FATAL knife attacks did NOT increase relative to the
proportion of gun attacks.  In fact, the reverse was true.

What was found was that most homicides did not show a determination on
the part of the assailant to kill.  Fatalities caused by knife tended
to show a single-mindedness on the part of the assailant to do grave
physical injury: multiple stabs wounds, wounds concentrated about the
head neck and chest, etc.  Most gun homicides did not show this
pattern.  Rather, more fatal attacks were committed during a moment of
rage and not the focused intent to kill the victim.

	Source: Report on Firearms and Violence

: Then, since England != USA (my ancestors left because of the oppression) you
: must compare England before strict gun laws to England after strict gun laws to
: be able to draw any meaning at all.  England has essentially legalized drugs,
: so there are no drug gangs battling for turf, etc., there.  If you drop out the
: drug related killings here, the USA would look a whole lot more peaceful.

There are a lot of factors which make a difference.  Actually, I'm not
fond of making ANY kind of social parallels between Europeans and
Americans. There are more cultural, beahvioral and economic
differences between us than similarities.  I just sort of found
myself backed into that corner over the last couple of weeks.  I
don't think we could ever attain the low levels of European violent
crime here in the US, whether we banned guns or required every
law-abiding citizen to carry a loaded Uzi.

On the other hand, we can draw lessons from neighbors who are more
culturally similar, namely the Canadians.  In fact, an exhaustive,
seven-year study has already been done of the respective crime rates
of Vancouver, British Columbia and Seattle, Washington... cities
with roughly the same population, urban economy, geography
and crime but with decidedly different approaches to gun control.

In Seattle, handguns may be purchased legally for self-defense.  After
a 30-day waiting period, a permit can be obtained to carry a concealed
weapon.  The recreational use of handguns is minimally restricted.

In Vancouver, self-defense is not considered a valid or legal reason
to purchase a handgun.  Concealed weapons are not permitted.
Recreational uses of handguns (target shooting, collecting) are
regulated by the province.  Purchase of a handgun requires a
restricted-weapons permit.  A permit to carry may be obtained in
order to transport the weapon to licensed shooting clubs.  Handguns
transported by vehicle must be stored in the trunk in a locked box.
In short, gun control but not unreasonably so.

Both cities aggressively enforce their gun laws.  Convictions for
gun-related offenses carry similar penalties.  The researchers
studied all cases of robbery, assault (simple and aggravated),
burglary and homicides occurring in Seattle and Vancouver from
1/1/80 to 12/31/86. In defining the cases, they used the same
standard: the FBI's Unified Crime Report.

Results: during the seven-year study the annual rate of robbery in
Seattle was found to be only slightly higher than that in Vancouver
(1.09 / 1.11).  Burglaries occurred at nearly identical rates (.99).
18,925 assaults were recorded in Seattle versus 12,034 in
Vancouver.  The risk of being a victim of a simple assault in
Seattle was found to be only slightly higher than Vancouver (1.18 /
1.15) and the risk of aggravated assault was also slightly higher
(1.16 / 1.12).  However, when aggravated assaults were subdivided by
weapon and the mechanism of assault, a clear pattern emerged.
Although both cities reported nearly identical rates of aggravated
assault involving knives and other dangerous weapons, firearms were
far more likely to be used in Seattle.  In fact, 7.7 times as often.

Over the seven-year study, 388 homicides occurred in Seattle
(11.3 per 100,000) vs. 204 homicides in Vancouver (6.9 per 100,000).
After adjustment for differences in age and sex among the populations,
the relative risk of being a victim of homicide in Seattle, as
compared to Vancouver, was found to be 1.63.

When homicides were subdivided by the mechanism of death, the rate
of homicide by knives and other weapons (excluding firearms) in
Seattle was found to be almost identical to that in Vancouver.
Virtually ALL of the increased risk of death in Seattle was due to
a more than fivefold higher rate of homicide by firearms.  Handguns
accounted for roughly 85% of homicides involving firearms.  Handguns
were 4.8 times more likely to be used in homicides in Seattle than
in Vancouver.

The authors of the report also investigated "legally justifiable"
homicides (self-defense).  Only 32 such homicides occurred during
the seven-year study, 11 of which were committed by police.  Only
21 cases of civilians acting in self-defense occurrred: 17 in
Seattle and 4 in Vancouver.  Only 13 involved firearms.  After
excluding these cases, there was virtually no impact on these
earlier findings.

-------

This is, I feel, a very fair report.  One might even make the
argument that it is biased against Canada as a whole because
Vancouver reports annual rates of homicide two to three times
that of Ottawa, Calgary and Toronto while Seattle reports
annual homicide rates only half to two-thirds that of NYC,
Chicago, Los Angeles and Houston.

Critics of handgun control always argue that limited legal access
to handguns will have little effect on the rates of homicide because
persons intent on killing others will only try harder to acquire a
gun or will kill by other means.  This report shows differently.
If the rate of homicide in a community were influenced more by
the strength of intent than by the availability of weapons, we
could expect the rate of homicides by weapons other than guns to
be higher in Vancouver than in Seattle.  However, during the study
interval, Vancouver's rate of homicide by weapons other than guns
was not significantly higher than that in Seattle, suggesting that
few would-be assailants switched to homicide by other methods.

As well, ready access to handguns for self-defense by law-abiding
citizens was not endorsed in this report.  Although Seattle did
experience a higher rate of firearm death for self-defense, these
cases accounted for less than 4% of the homicides in both cities
during the course of the study period.  And, as was reported,
Seattle apparently didn't enjoy relief from any crime category
over Vancouver because citizens may legally arm themselves for
self-defense.

	Heavily quoted source: Handgun Regulation, Crime,
	Assaults, and Homicide: A Tale of Two Cities.

	John H. Sloan, Arthur L. Kellerman, Donald T. Reay,
	James A. Ferris, Thomas Koepsall, Frederick P. Rivara,
	Charles Rice, Laurel Gray and James LoGerfo


Avoiding mistakes is certainly highly desirable.  However it is also
widely acknowledged that perfectionism is inimicable to creativity.
And in ordinary life, perfectionism carried beyond a certain point is
indicative of a psychological disorder.  In the extreme case, a
perfectionist becomes so paralyzed by all the possible mistakes he might
make that he is unable to even leave the house.

In science, we want to discover as much truth about the world as possible
and we also want to have as much certainty as possible about these
discoveries.  Usually there is some trade-off between these two desiderata
--- the search for scope and the search for certainty.

If 18th century mathematicians had demanded total rigor from Newton and
Leibniz then there would probably be no calculus today, because neither
of the two could explain calculus in a way that really made sense, since
they lacked the concept of a limit.  And in fact, because of the lack of
a rigorous foundation, they made a number of errors in their use of calculus.
It was only a hundred years later that Weistrass was able to give a solid
grounding for the ideas of Newton and Leibniz.  Nonetheless, what Newton
and Leibniz did was undoubtedly science and mathematics gained a great
deal more from the application of their important ideas than it lost
through the mistakes they made.

These are not the rules according to many who post to sci.med and
sci.psychology.  According to these posters  "If it's not supported by
carefully designed controlled studies then it's not science."

Taken to the extreme, I believe that the attitude that empirical studies
are everything and ideas are nothing results in a complete stultification
of science.

For one thing, an insistence on an elaborate and expensive methodology
results in a sort of scientific trade-unionism, where those outside
the establishment and lacking institutional or corporate support have
no chance to obtain a hearing.  (I don't in the least believe that this
is the intention of the arbiters of scientific methodology.  Nonetheless,
it is one of the results.)   And although institutional science has
certainly produced many wonderful results, I think it is a foolish
arrogance for scientists to believe that no one outside the establishment
--- and using less than perfect empirical methodology --- will ever come
with anything worthwhile.

Furthermore, the big bucks approach to science promotes what I think is
one of the most significant errors in science:  choosing to investigate
questions because they can be readily handled by the currently
fashionable methodology (or because one can readily get institutional
or corporate sponsorship for them) instead of directing attention to
those questions which seem to have fundamental significance.

For instance, certain questions cannot be easily investigated with
statistical methods because the relevant factors are not quantitative.
(One could argue that this is the case for almost all questions in many
areas of psychology.  In my opinion, a perusal of many of the papers
resulting from the attempt by psychologists to force these questions
into a statistical framework gives the lie to Russell Turpin's
assertion that current scientific methods "avoid all known errors.")

I think that asking the wrong question is probably the most fundamental
error in science.  (Ignoring potentially valuable ideas is one of the
others.)  And I think that scientific journals are full of all
too many studies done with impeccable empirical methods but which are
worthless because the wrong question was asked in the first place.

--
In the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems
less like a science than a collection of competing religious sects.


Another source:  There's a poly blitter for mode y (mode x in 320x200)
at sunee.uwaterloo.ca.  Also there is REND386, an even faster 3D
renderer with VR extensions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quoting Jeffrey J. Nucciarone's (nucci@microwave.gsfc.nasa.gov) article
<C4G8Hv.Cs4@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov> of 04-06-93, in pertinent part:

 JJ>   I am considering buying a used '90 Taurus SHO.  The car in
 JJ> question has 37k miles. I took it for a test drive the other day
 JJ> and a few questions came up.
 JJ>
 JJ> . . .
 JJ>   Second, is there anything I should specifically look for in an
 JJ> SHO of this vintage? Anything I should specifically ask abt?
 JJ> (Brakes, cluthch, etc.)  I noticed on the drive the clutch engagemen
 JJ> point seemed a little high; since all my other cars are auto-tragics
 JJ> I'm not sure abt this point. I had my foot firmly planted on the
 JJ> brake when I started it up. There was a bit of a pop in the pedal
 JJ> soon after the engine started. This also occured on a few T-bird SC'
 JJ> I test drove. Was this the ABS self test?

Brake rotors and the clutch are the main things.  There has been a clutch
replacement program; you might check to see if the car is still eligible,
as it is a change well worth making.  You can also swap the cruddy cable
shifter for the newer rod shifter, also a change worth making, but that'll
cost you some $$.

My brakes usually do one wibble-wobble on startup, so that is probably
normal.  Didn't know they had a self-test, that's interesting.

What kind of tires does the car have on it?


Some time ago I sent the following message:
   Every once in a while I design an orbital space colony.  I'm gearing up to
   do another one.  I'd some info from you. If you were to move
   onto a space colony to live permanently, how big would the colony have
   to be for you to view a permanent move as desirable?  Specifically,

   How many people do you want to share the colony with?

   What physical dimensions does the living are need to have?

   Assume 1g living (the colony will rotate).  Assume that you can leave
   from time to time for vacations and business trips.  If you're young
   enough, assume that you'll raise your children there.

I didn't get a lot of responses, and they were all over the block.
Thanx muchly to all those who responded, it is good food for thought.

Here's the (edited) responses I got:

   How many people do you want to share the colony with?

100

   What physical dimensions does the living are need to have?

Cylinder 200m diameter x 1 km long

Rui Sousa
ruca@saber-si.pt

=============================================================================

100,000 - 250,000

100 square kms surface, divided into city, towns, villages and
countryside.  Must have lakes, rivers amd mountains.

=============================================================================

1000.  1000 people really isn't that large a number;
everyone will know everyone else within the space of a year, and will probably
be sick of everyone else within another year.

Hm.  I am not all that great at figuring it out.  But I would maximize the
percentage of colony-space that is accessible to humans.  Esecially if there
were to be children, since they will figure out how to go everywhere anyways.
And everyone, especially me, likes to "go exploring"...I would want to be able
to go for a walk and see something different each time...

=============================================================================

For population, I think I would want a substantial town -- big enough
to have strangers in it.  This helps get away from the small-town
"everybody knows everything" syndrome, which some people like but
I don't.  Call it several thousand people.

For physical dimensions, a somewhat similar criterion:  big enough
to contain surprises, at least until you spent considerable time
getting to know it.  As a more specific rule of thumb, big enough
for there to be places at least an hour away on foot.  Call that
5km, which means a 10km circumference if we're talking a sphere.

                                         Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
                                          henry@zoo.toronto.edu   utzoo!henry

=============================================================================
My desires, for permanent move to a space colony, assuming easy communication
and travel:

Size:  About a small-town size, say 9 sq. km.  'Course, bigger is better :-)
Population:  about 100/sq km or less.  So, ~1000 for 9sqkm.  Less is
better for elbow room, more for interest and sanity, so say max 3000, min 300.

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams | 517-355-2178 (work) \\     Inhale to the Chief!
18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu  | 336-9591 (hm)\\  Zonker Harris in 1996!


Stop! Hold it! You have a few problems here. Official history says that
the first accusations of homosexuality in the SA came from OUTSIDE of the Nazi
party, long BEFORE the Nazis ever came to power. So this objection is a red
herring, even if established history is wrong on this point. Moreover, none of
the histories I've read ever made mention of Hitler or anyone else ever using
homosexuality as a pretext for purging Roehm. A point I saw reiterated was that
Hitler and the party covered up these accusations. If you are going to accuse
official history of being a fabrication, you should at least get your facts
right. The pretext for purging Roehm was that he was planning to use the SA in
a coup against Hitler. Nowhere is there mention of using allegations of
homosexuality as a pretext for the purge, nor as a justification afterwards (it
is possible that the histories I've read have not mentioned this, but I doubt
it - would it be in Hitler's best interest to admit to the world that his
former right hand man was a homosexual?).

Anyway, as I said before, it is always possible that I have missed references
to the Nazis making use of charges of homosexuality against the SA after the
night of the long knives - but this does not prove that they were false. Even
the Nazis could tell the truth when it was to their advantage. In any case,
this does not deal with accusations of homosexuality in the SA during the
1920's.

Ah, yes. I forgot this was being posted to alt.conspiracy. I can smell the
paranoia from here. Since the Nazis never officially charged Roehm with
homosexuality (at least, not according to what I've read), I'd like to know
what tainted "evidence" you are talking about. Since the accusations were made
by persons outside of the Nazi party, long before it came to power, and those
accusations were common knowledge to journalists and others in Germany in the
1920's and 30's, just how would it be possible for the Nazis to go back in
time and plant "tainted" evidence? How exactly does one doctor newspapers
which were circulated around the world, without the discrepancies being
obvious? What actual incidences of Nazi doctoring evidence on this matter
do you know about? And what about the testimony of people who were involved in
these matters, some of whom were not Nazis? And what is the point of making a
false accusation of homosexuality if you do not publicize it? Since the point
here seems to be to discredit established history, then the burden of proof
falls on the revisionist. The revisionists had better do their homework
before making accusations. Otherwise they simply look like conspiracy nuts.

This is just about the *only* thing we agree on.

I suspect that the notion that there might have been bad people - Roehm and
his SA buddies - who were homosexuals must disturb some people. The feeling
seems to be that if a nasty individual is accused of homosexuality, that this
must be an attempt to bash homosexuals. This fear - often justified - is what
lies behind this distrust of official history, or so it seems to me. But this
is not a good justification for trashing accepted accounts of this subject. If
you really think that historians are so incompetent, why don't you write them
and ask where they got their sources on this subject, if you can't tell from
their footnotes? I'm a graduate student in history. Writing to professors and
tracking down sources is old hat. But my time is limited and this is not my
specialty - and neither you nor anyone else have said anything that would
cast one shred of doubt on existing evidence. I'm not going to waste my time
trying to debunk someone's paranoia. Do the research yourself.

Given that you already consider all evidence "tainted", what on earth would
constitute concrete particulars? And since when have concrete particulars been
considered "shrewd guesses"?

I suggest that those who do not trust popular historians (Irving et al) -
historians writing for a popular audience do not, as a rule, provide copious
footnotes - should try instead reading academic historians, who usually
provide footnotes to all their sources in immmense detail. This is the place
to start looking. Assuming that one really wants to know the truth.

I'll bet the folks on alt.pagan are tired of this subject already. My
apologies - we seem to have gone off on a bit of a tangent. I forget which gods
are responsible for keeping strings within appropriate newsgroup subject
boundaries...


No, he's not missing anything.  You're right that some models of the 650 ship in
the USA without FPU or Ethernet.  Per Ejeklint is also right -- *all*, I repeat,
*ALL* Centris 650's sold here in New Zealand and, I assume, Europe have the FPU
and Ethernet.


ADL authorities seem to view a lot of people as dangerous, including
the millions of Americans of Arab ancestry.  Perhaps you can answer
the question as to why the ADL maintained files and spied on ADC members
in California (and elsewhere??)?  Friendly rivalry perhaps?

Perhaps Yigal is a Greenpeace member? Or the NAACP? Or a reporter?
Or a member of any of the dozens of other political organizations/ethnic
minorities/occupations that the ADL spied on.

Paranoia?

The names of half the posters on this forum, unless they already
have them.


Tell me, 'kmagnacca', were you high on 'Arromdian of ASALA/SDPA/ARF'
when you wrote that? Humane behavior and tolerance of Turks was a
legend even 500 years ago when they accepted tens of thousands of
Jews from Spain who were fleeing from the Spanish Inquisition. Again,
many Jewish families escaping from Nazi Armenians and Hitler's Nazi
Germany took refugee in Turkiye during the 1940's. Turkish people
have unselfishly given home, protection, and freedom to the Jews over
the centuries, including to thousands and thousands of them during
the Second World War. Get a life or a cup of Turkish coffee.

"History of the Jews in the Islamic Countries," chapters in Parts I and II,
Jarusalem, Zalman Shazar Center for Jewish History, 1986.

Baron, Salo W., "A Social and Religious History of the Jews," New York,
Columbia University Press, Vols. III, V, XVIII.

Benardete, Mair Jose, "Hispanic Culture and Character of the Sephardic
Jews," New York, Sepher-Hermon Press, 2nd corrected edition, 1982 (original
publication 1953).

Lewis, Bernard, eds., "Christians and Jews in the Ottoman Empire," New York,
Holmes & Meier, 1982, Vol. I, The Central Lands.

"La Turquie dan les Archives des Grand Orient de France: les loges ...,"
in Jean-Louis Bacque-Graumont and Paul Dumont, eds., Economie et Societes
dans L'Empire Ottoman, Paris, Centre National De La Reserche Scientifique,
1983.

Inalcik, Halil, "Turkish-Jewish Relations in the Ottoman Empire," 1982.

Sevilla-Sharon, Moshe, "Turkiye Yahudileri, Tarihsel Bakis," Jerusalem, The
Hebrew University, 1982.

Source: John Dewey: "The New Republic," Vol. 40, Nov. 12, 1928, pp. 268-9.

"Happy the minority [Jews] which has had no Christian nation to protect it.
 And one recalls that the Jews took up their abode in 'fanatic' Turkey
 when they were expelled from Europe, especially Spain, by Saintly Christians,
 and they have lived here for centuries in at least as much tranquility and
 liberty as their fellow Turkish subjects, all being exposed alike to the
 rapacity of their common rulers. To one brought up, as most Americans have
 been, in the Gladstonian and foreign-missionary tradition, the condition of
 the Jews in Turkey is almost a mathematical demonstration that religious
 differences have had an influence in the tragedy of Turkey only as they
 were combined with aspirations for a political separation which every
 nation in the world would have treated as treasonable. One readily
 reaches the conclusion that the Jews in Turkey were fortunate..."

He also stated that:

"they [Armenians] traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian
 invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and
 fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least
 a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population."

                TURKEY AND THE HOLOCAUST

An  interview  with  Stanford  J. Shaw  (History),  who  recently
completed  two books:  The Jews  of  the Ottoman  Empire and  the
Turkish Republic, and Turkey and  the Holocaust: Turkey's Role in
Rescuing  Turkish  and  European  Jewry  from  Nazi  Persecution,
1933-45. Shaw  chairs the undergraduate  interdepartmental degree
program in Near Eastern Studies and has organized the Program for
the Study of Ottoman and Turkish Jewry. He is affiliated with the
G. E. von Grunebaum Center for Near Eastern Studies.

Editor: How did  you come to write these two  books on Turkey and
European and Turkish Jews?

Shaw: Basically, I'm  an Ottoman historian, but  I'm also Jewish.
I've  spent twenty-five  years studying  Ottoman history,  and as
time went along, whenever I  found materials on the Ottoman Jews,
I collected  them. But  I never  did anything  with them  until a
couple of years  ago, when I suddenly realized that  1992 was the
500th  anniversary of  the  Jews being  expelled  from Spain  and
coming  to Turkey.  Then the  Sephardic Temple  down on  Wilshire
Avenue invited me  to give a series of three  lectures on Ottoman
Jewry.  These lectures  were  greatly appreciated,  and I  became
motivated to  undertake further research  to develop a  book, The
Jews of the  Ottoman Empire and the Turkish)  Republic. This book
is quite different from the  works of most Jewish historians, who
tend to look  at the Jews in any country  more from the viewpoint
of the Jews  and the Jewish community, and rely  mainly on Jewish
sources.  I  view my  subject  as  an  Ottoman historian,  and  I
approach the Jews of the Ottoman Empire largely from the point of
view of Ottoman  society, using largely Ottoman  sources. After I
finished  this book  and  sent it  to the  press,  I came  across
additional documents  relating to  Turkish Jews during  World War
II. In the completed book, I had said that Turkey had done a good
deal  to rescue  the Jews  during  World War  II, but  I did  not
actually have many details. Then I  found a batch of documents in
the Foreign Ministry archive relating to actions taken by Turkish
diplomats to  help the Jews  before and during the  Holocaust. It
was too late to add this new information to the book in press, so
I decided to  write a second book. I  conducted further research,
mainly in the archives of the  Foreign Ministry in Ankara and the
Turkish Embassy and Consulate in Paris. The result was the second
book, Turkey and  the Holocaust, which details  how Turkey helped
rescue Jews from the Nazis.

- How exactly did they do this?

The story takes  place over a number of years.  The book presents
the material in three parts, first of which deals with the period
before the Holocaust. When the Nazis  came to power in Germany in
1933,  they immediately  started  dismissing  Jews and  anti-Nazi
Germans from universities,  hospitals, scientific institutes, and
the like. Turkey at that moment was just beginning the process of
reforming its  universities, and it  saw in these Jews,  who were
being fired from their positions in Germany, a good source of new
talent to  help modernize the Turkish  universities. Within three
months  after the  Nazis  started dismissing  these Jews,  Turkey
arranged to take many of them in. They were brought to Turkey and
were   given   appointments   as  professors   in   the   Turkish
universities, as  heads of scientific institutes,  and as medical
personnel in hospitals. About 300  to 500 major Jewish professors
came to  Turkey in  the 1930s. Ernst  Reuter, a  German political
scientist,  spent the  war  years teaching  political science  in
Turkey. After  World War II,  he was  mayor of Berlin  during the
Berlin Airlift.  Fritz Neimark, a major  German Jewish economist,
came to Turkey and helped  establish a modern school of economics
in Istanbul.  A man named  Reichenbach, who was rescued  from the
Nazis by  Turkey and  spent the war  years in  Turkey, eventually
came to  UCLA, where he  became a professor of  philosophy. Other
German Jewish  emigres engaged in cultural  activities in Turkey.
One  such was  Karl  Ebert,  who had  been  a leading  theatrical
producer in Berlin until he was expelled by the Nazis. He went to
Turkey, where he  organized the Turkish National  Theater and the
Turkish National Opera  Company in Ankara, with the  help of Paul
Hindemuth. So  the first  section of the  book covers  this first
phase, when Jews were being  persecuted in Germany and rescued by
Turkey.  Oddly enough,  the  German emigres,  when  they were  in
Turkey, did not seem to think too badly of Germany. They regarded
themselves more  as Germans than Jews,  and they did not  join in
the anti-Nazi activities of the local Turkish Jewish community. I
even  found  letters  from  the Nazi  representatives  to  Turkey
praising these German Jewish refugees for their work in promoting
the idea  of German  culture. Even though  these people  had been
persecuted by the Nazis and rescued by the Turks, they shared the
Nazis' feelings of  Aryan racial superiority over  the Turks. The
second part of the book deals  with the Holocaust, which began in
1940 when the Nazis occupied France.  In Europe at that time, and
especially in France, there were  about 20,000 Turkish Jews. They
had migrated to Europe for various reasons from about the turn of
the century onward. Most of them had settled in Europe during the
Turkish war for  independence after World War I,  when Greece was
threatening to overrun Turkey. The Greeks had persecuted the Jews
throughout the nineteenth century, and the Jews feared what might
happen to them if the Greeks  took over in Turkey. Many Jews fled
to France during  the 1920s and 1930s. Many  also abandoned their
Turkish  citizenship and  became  French  citizens. Suddenly  the
Nazis invaded France in 1940 and started introducing all sorts of
anti-Jewish laws.  The Turkish  Jews soon found  that it  was not
worth very much to  be a French Jew, but that it  was worth a lot
to be a Turkish Jew.

- How so?

Turkey remained neutral through most of World War II. It retained
its embassies  and consulates in all  the Nazi-occupied countries
until it finally entered the war on the side of the Allies at the
end of 1944. During the war,  therefore, Turkey was in a position
to  defend its  citizens  against anti-Jewish  measures, and  the
actions that  Turkish diplomats took  form the second  chapter of
the  book. Turkish  diplomats  who were  stationed  in France  in
particular intervened to protect Jews of Turkish citizenship from
the Nazis. For those Turkish  Jews who had retained their Turkish
citizenship,  there  was  generally  no  problem.  If  they  were
arrested and sent to a  concentration camp, the Turkish diplomats
would  communicate with  the  commanders of  the  camp and  other
officials and say in effect:  "These people are Turkish citizens.
You  can't do  this  to  them." And  the  Turkish  Jews would  be
released.  If  their  businesses were  confiscated,  the  Turkish
diplomats would protest and the businesses would be restored.

The Nazis  in general  wanted to keep  the friendship  of Turkey.
They hoped to be able to use  Turkey as a gateway for an invasion
of the Middle  East, and they also wanted to  obtain chromium and
manganese from Turkey. In order  to keep Turkish friendship, they
usually accepted  these interventions on behalf  of Turkish Jews.
The Turkish  diplomats sometimes went to  the concentration camps
to secure the release of Turkish Jews. At times they even boarded
trains hauling  Turkish Jews  to Auschwitz for  extermination and
succeeded in getting them off the train. Most of the foreign Jews
were sent  to a concentration  camp at  a place called  Drancy in
Paris,  and that's  where  most of  the  intercession by  Turkish
consuls took place.

The greater problem came with  the Turkish Jews who had abandoned
their  Turkish citizenship  and had  become French  citizens. The
consuls couldn't declare that  these people were Turkish citizens
because  they were  not.  My book  includes  photographs of  Jews
lining  up in  front  of  the Turkish  consulate,  either to  get
passports to  return to Turkey or  to get a restoration  of their
Turkish  citizenship.   This  was   a  bureaucratic   matter,  so
processing the application would take  some time. In the meantime
it was a  real emergency, because the Nazis would  arrest Jews on
the streets for almost nothing.  The Nazis would even arrest them
if they  had radios  or telephones  in their  apartments, because
radios and  telephones were  forbidden to Jews.  To take  care of
these  former  Turkish Jews,  the  Turkish  diplomats invented  a
document called  gayri muntazem  vatandash, or  "irregular fellow
citizen." The  document said in  effect "This person is  a former
Turkish  citizen  who has  applied  for  the restoration  of  his
Turkish citizenship.  In the meantime  we would appreciate  it if
you  would treat  him  as  if he  were  a  Turkish citizen."  The
diplomats wrote  the document in  Turkish and put their  seals on
it. Since  the Nazis could  not read  Turkish, on the  whole they
accepted  these papers  as certificates  of citizenship.  By this
means, the  Turkish diplomats were  able to rescue many  Jews who
had relinquished their Turkish citizenship.

Actually the Nazis were of two minds about the Turkish defense of
Jews. On the one hand the  Nazi Foreign Ministry, which wanted to
retain the friendship of Turkey,  was in favor of accepting these
interventions. On the other hand, Himmler and Eichmann wanted all
Jews exterminated.  At times  Himmler and  Eichmann were  able to
prevail and some  of the Turkish Jews were sent  off to Auschwitz
before the Turkish consuls could do anything.

- Do you have statistics on how many Turkish Jews were rescued?

There were about  20,000 Turkish Jews in Europe  before world War
II,  about 10,000  of whom  were living  in France.  Most of  the
information in this section of  the book relates to the situation
in France. I have published  the letters that the Turkish consuls
sent to  the Nazi  officials and  the letters  that came  back in
reply. Generally the Nazis said  that if the Turkish consul would
present  documents  certifying   that  arrested  individuals  are
Turkish citizens,  and promise  to send them  out of  France, the
Nazis would release them from the concentration camp. The Turkish
consuls also organized  special trains to take  Turkish Jews from
Nazi-occupied  territory   back  to  Turkey.  These   trains  ran
regularly in 1943 and 1944. The Nazis gave the Turkish Jews visas
so they  could pass out  of Nazi  territory, but the  trains were
often  held  up by  the  Nazi-influenced  governments of  Eastern
Europe  -   Croatia,  Serbia,   and  Bulgaria  -   because  these
governments really didn't want the Jews to escape. As a result of
the Turkish consuls' efforts, about 3,000 to 4,000 of the Turkish
Jews  in  France were  saved.  Another  3,000  were sent  off  to
Auschwitz, where  most of them  died. The remaining  3,000 either
escaped  across the  border into  Spain or  fled to  the area  of
southern France occupied  by the Italians, who  treated Jews much
better than  the Nazis did.  At the  end of 1943,  however, Italy
fell out of the war, and that was the end for those Jews as well.
Incidentally, the Turkish diplomats  in Nazi-occupied Greece also
worked to rescue Jews in that country.

- The second part of your  book then deals with Turkish diplomats
acting to  rescue Jews of  Turkish citizenship or  Turkish origin
from Nazi persecution.

Yes,  and  there  is  an  aside   I  might  add  here:  In  their
interventions on  behalf of Turkish  Jews, the Turks  cited their
treaty with Germany which stated  that Turkish citizens in German
territory would be treated the same as German citizens in Turkey.
On  that basis  the Turks  maintained  that the  Nazis could  not
discriminate  against Turkish  citizens who  are Jews.  The Nazis
claimed  (and the  Vichy government  agreed) that  they were  not
discriminating  because  they  were treating  all  Jews  equally.
Turkey  protested,   saying,  "You  are  dividing   our  citizens
according to religion, but the Turkish constitution requires that
all  citizens   be  treated  equally,  regardless   of  religion.
Therefore, you cannot single  out Turkish Jews." American consuls
in  Paris,  by contrast,  accepted  the  Nazi argument  and  told
American Jews  who were being  persecuted by the Nazis  that they
couldn't do  anything about  it, because  the American  Jews were
being treated the same as other  Jews. The third part of the book
takes place in Turkey, which  was the principal center during the
Holocaust for activities aimed at  the rescue of Eastern European
Jews. The  kwish Agency, an  organization established by  Jews in
Palestine to help resettle Jews to Palestine, set up an office in
Istanbul  in 1940  under the  leadership of  Chaim Barlas.  Other
Jewish organizations in Palestine, especially the kibbutzes, also
sent representatives  to Istanbul  to set up  headquarters. These
groups first tried to contact Jews  in Eastern Europe to find out
what was  happening. Today  we know about  the Holocaust,  but at
that  time people  didn't know  what  was going  on. They  didn't
imagine the Nazis could do the things they were doing. And so the
first step was to get information, and the Turkish government let
them use the Turkish mails to send letters to their relatives and
friends  in Eastern  Europe. The  Jewish organizations  found out
what was happening when they  received replies. Later on when the
Nazis  began  to  intercept   such  letters,  the  Jews  received
assistance  also from  the  Vatican nuncio,  Angelo Roncali,  who
served as  the Vatican  representative in  Istanbul from  1935 to
1944  and   later  became  Pope   John  XXIII.  As   the  Vatican
representative  during the  war, he  used the  facilities of  the
Catholic  Church to  supplement what  the Turkish  government was
doing to  assist Jewish  agencies in  contacting Jews  in Eastern
Europe.  With the  cooperation of  the Turkish  government, these
agencies  then  sent  hard  currency, food,  clothing,  and  even
railroad  and  steamship  tickets   to  Jews  in  Czechoslovakia,
Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary. They weren't able to help much in
Poland because  by then the  Nazis had  wiped out almost  all the
Polish Jews.  Whenever possible the rescue  agencies arranged for
the Jews to get out of Eastern Europe either by train through the
so called  Orient Express route  to Istanbul, or by  boat through
the Black Sea to Istanbul.

Turkey was not eager for all  these refugees to remain within its
borders during  the war, because  it was being blockaded  and was
suffering   terrible  shortages   of  food   and  clothing.   The
government,   therefore,   facilitated   the  movement   of   the
non-Turkish Jewish  refugees from Turkey to  Palestine, either by
the Taurus  Express Railroad through  the mountains to  Syria and
Palestine,  or by  small boats  across the  eastern Mediterranean
from southern  Turkey to  Palestine. These efforts  were bitterly
opposed not only  by the Nazis, but also by  the British, who did
not want  any more Jewish  immigration to Palestine  because they
feared it would hurt their  relations with the Arabs. The British
constantly pressured the Turkish  government to stop this traffic
and send those Jews back. In  a few cases the Turkish government,
yielding  to  British pressure,  did  send  the boats  back.  For
example, in  one incident,  the steamship  Struma, with  some 700
Jewish  refugees  from Romania,  was  sent  back by  the  Turkish
government  as  a  result  of the  intervention  of  the  British
ambassador. When  that ship was  sunk by a Soviet  submarine, all
were lost except one person.  Nevertheless, all told, the Turkish
government allowed no fewer than 100,000 Eastern European Jews to
pass through  Turkish territory and  move on to  Palestine during
the Second World War. The Turkish authorities also provided these
refugees with facilities  and money, and gave  them permission to
send money and food out of the country.

- Many  of these  Jews who  passed  through Turkey  may still  be
living in Israel.

Yes, and  their children. But  let's return  for a moment  to the
first group, the Turkish Jews who  came from Europe. They did not
go  on  to   Palestine;  they  stayed  in  Turkey.   It  was  the
non-Turkish, Eastern  European Jews who passed  through Turkey en
route to Palestine. Their story is very interesting.

- And you have rescued it from obscurity.

Many studies have been made of the Holocaust, but most of them do
not focus on the Eastern European or Middle Eastern Jews. Most of
the scholarship  has centered  on the  Western European  Jews, of
whom 6 million were massacred by the Nazis. My study deals with a
much smaller  number of  people. I  have tried  to round  out the
picture,  and I  hope my  book  will persuade  other scholars  to
undertake further investigations in the history of Eastern Jews.

When it  comes to numbers,  the German Jews were  also relatively
small in number. Most of the millions slain were Polish Jews. The
rescue  of  100,000  Eastern  European   Jews  may  not  seem  so
significant  compared  with  the  total of  6  million  who  were
murdered, but it meant a lot to those who were saved.

About  three-fourths   of  the  book  consists   of  documents  -
translations  of many  documents. They  are included  because the
story is not well known. Not  only are people in the West unaware
of  the courageous  actions of  the Turkish  diplomats; even  the
people of Turkey  did not know the story. I  felt that they would
not  fully understand  this  remarkable  achievement unless  they
could see the documents.

- What languages are used in the documents?

Most of them are in Turkish  or French; some are in Hebrew. There
is a great  deal of material in Hebrew about  the organization of
the boats  going to Palestine, the  passengers, and so on,  but I
did not go into those details extensively. I describe mostly what
Turkey did, so  most of my documents are in  Turkish or French. A
few documents are  in English. The Jewish groups  in Istanbul did
not necessarily  cooperate with  one another  to rescue  Jews; in
fact, they often fought with  one another. They took turns trying
to  get  the  Turkish  government to  deport  rival  groups.  For
example, some of  the kibbutz groups felt that  the Jewish Agency
was  run by  Western European  Jews who  were interested  only in
helping  Western  European  Jews.  Finally,  in  1944,  President
Roosevelt sent a personal  representative, Ira Hirschman, who had
been an executive of Bloomingdale's  department store in New York
City, and  Hirschman managed to reconcile  their differences. The
documents related to his mission are in English.

I also obtained many documents  from Serge Klarsfeld, a Holocaust
historian in France,  who mainly worked on the  French Jews. (His
father was  killed by  the Nazis.)  He gave  me materials  he had
gathered in the German archives on  the Turkish Jews, so I didn't
personally consult the German archives.  I believe that much more
can  be learned  from the  German  archives, and  I hope  someone
someday will make the effort.

- This new book fits in well with your teaching, doesn't it?

Right. I'm  giving a  course on  the history of  the Jews  of the
Ottoman  Empire.  I first  gave  the  course  two years  ago.  In
addition to  research, writing, and teaching,  I've been actively
involved in  the commemoration  of the  500th anniversary  of the
coming of the  Jews to the Ottoman Empire. Among  other things, I
helped organize  a large international conference  on the subject
which was held in Istanbul in 1992.

- Now that your  books are finished and the  conference has taken
place, what do you plan to do next?

I'm working on two new books. One is a history of the Turkish War
for Independence, which took place  after World War I, during the
years  1918 to  1923. The  Turks warded  off the  efforts of  the
victorious  European   powers  to  occupy  Turkey   and  end  its
independence. The  second book is  a study of Sultan  Abdul Hamid
II, the last major sultan, who ruled from 1876 to 1909. He was an
important modernizer in his own  way, although he also suppressed
all sorts of political movements.

Stanford  J. Shaw  received  a B.A.  in History  and  an M.A.  in
British History. He then shifted to Near Eastern History, earning
a second M.A.  and a Ph.D. at Princeton. As  a doctoral candidate
at Princeton, he  spent two years abroad, studying  at the School
of  Oriental  and  African  Studies, University  of  London;  the
University of  Cairo, the American  University at Cairo,  and the
University of  Istanbul. He  taught at  Harvard before  coming to
UCLA in 1966. His postdoctoral research has been supported by the
John Simon Guggenheim Foundation, the American Research Institute
in  Turkey, the  Social  Science Research  Council, the  National
Endowment for the Humanities, the Fulbright Program, and ISOP. He
has  received  honorary  degrees   from  Harvard  University  and
Bosporus University, Bebek, Istanbul, Turkey, and medals of honor
for lifetime contributions  to the fields of  Islamic and Turkish
studies from the Center for Research in Islamic History, Art, and
Culture in  Istanbul and from  the American Friends of  Turkey in
Washington,  D.C. In  addition to  undertaking many  professional
service activities and public lectures  in both the United States
and Turkey,  Shaw has  also produced eight  books and  one edited
volume. His  History of  the Ottoman Empire  and Modem  Turkey (2
vols.)  has been  published  in many  editions  (six editions  or
reprints  from 1977-1991),  and  translated  into Turkish  (1983,
1991) and French (1984). His book  The Jews of the Ottoman Empire
and  the  Turkish  Republic  (MacMillan,  London,  and  New  York
University Press, 1992) will  be published in Turkish translation
by the Turkish  Historical Society, Istanbul. His  Turkey and the
Holocaust: Turkey's  Role in Rescuing Turkish  and European Jewry
from Nazi  Persecution, 1933-1945 will be  published by Macmillan
Publishers,  London, and  New York  University Press  in 1993.  A
pamphlet summarizing the book was published in Ankara, Turkey, in
1992.

Serdar Argic


Senile keratoses.  Have nothing to do with the liver.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon."


/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / steiner@jupiter.ca.boeing.com / 12:07 am  Apr 15, 1993 /

Also, you need to consider our legal system.  Since any of these things
CAN be lethal, you are going to have a hard time explaining why you applied
lethal force when you DIDN'T think it was necessary.  (If you thought lethal
force was necessary, you wouldn't be using rubber bullets, would you?) Ouch.
If you are justified in shooting them at all, you are justified in using
the best self defense ammunition you can get your hands on.  It might actually
IMPROVE the legal outcome.

This is why hollow points hold up in court.  They are safer for you, safer
for innocent by standers, (don't as a rule go through the perp) and actually
safer for the perp.  If you are using military hard ball, you may have to
shoot him 'MANY' times, where one or two hollow points might stop him and
do the job.  As a rule, the fewer wound channels, the better the chance
for his surviving the incident.


Where do insparations/Miracles fit in?  I was a new reader to the bible
and Qu'ran at the same time in my life and I can tell you that I would
have drifted in my faith if Those books were not exposed to me.


COCHRANE,JAMES SHAPLEIGH writes

This group killed itself to fulfill its interpretation of prophecy
and to book a suite in Paradise, taking innocent kids along for the
ride. I hardly think the feds were motivated by persecution. If they
were, all Koresh would have had to do was surrender quietly to the
authorities, without firing a shot, to get the American people behind
him and put the feds in the hot seat. But no, God told him to play
the tough guy. There's great strength in yielding, but few appreciate
this.


I am currently writing a paper on computer protocols security. I would
appreciate your help.  I currently have no insight into these topics except
that they relate to security in multilevel security network.  Please semd me
any references, books, FAQs or contact persons names and Internet addresses.
The topics I am interested in:
1.  The "firewall gateway model" as implemented in Internet gateways.
2.  Kerberos Authentication Service

Please send me a private e-mail at eldar@sfu.ca and/or post it on the board.

Thanks a lot,


   |>
   |>    Final Solution for the Gaza ghetto ?
   |>    ------------------------------------
   |>
   |>    While Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they
   |>    repress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and
   |>    attempt to starve the Gazans.
   |>
   |>    [...]
   |>
   |> The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were fighting to keep themselves and
   |> their families from being sent to Nazi gas chambers. Groups like Hamas
   |> and the Islamic Jihad fight with the expressed purpose of driving all
   |> Jews into the sea. Perhaps, we should persuade Jewish people to help
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   |> these wnderful "freedom fighters" attain this ultimate goal.
   |>
   |> Maybe the "freedom fighters" will choose to spare the co-operative Jews.
   |> Is that what you are counting on, Elias - the pity of murderers.
   |>
   |> You say your mother was Jewish. How ashamed she must be of her son. I
   |> am sorry, Mrs. Davidsson.
   |>
   |> Harry.

   O.K., its my turn:

	  DRIVING THE JEWS INTO THE SEA ?!

   I am sick and tired of this 'DRIVING THE JEWS INTO THE SEA' sentance attributed
   to Islamic movements and the PLO; it simply can't be proven as part of their
   plan !

   (Pro Israeli activists repeat it like parrots without checking its authenticity
   since it was coined by Bnai Brith)

   What Hamas and Islamic Jihad believe in, as far as I can get from the Arab media,
   is an Islamic state that protects the rights of all its inhabitants under Koranic
   Law. This would be a reversal of the 1948 situation in which the Jews in
   Palestine took control of the land and its (mostly Muslim) inhabitants.

   However, whoever committed crimes against humanity (torture, blowing up their
   homes, murders,...) must be treated and tried as a war criminal. The political
   thought of these movements shows that a freedom of choice will be given to the
   Jews in living under the new law or leaving to the destintion of their choice.

   As for the PLO, I am at a loss to explain what is going inside Arafat's mind.

   Although their political thinking seems far fetched with Israel acting as a true
   super-power in the region, the Islamic movements are using the same weapon the
   Jews used to establish their state : Religion.

   Ahmed.

Forget the syntax, Ahmed, and focus on the semnatics. The fact is that
the PLO does not recognize Israel's right to exist. This is perfectly
obvious from the PLO covenant (Cairo, 1968). The covenant calls for
the destruction of the "Zionist entity". As far as I know the
Israel-destruction clauses still exist in the document which specifies
the purpose for the existence of the PLO. If you would like, I can
post the relevant caluses.

Now the Hamas ideal is far more radical, it seems. I know it has been
posted here several times, and while I do not have a copy of it, I am
sure that someone does and he (or she, of course) would be more than
happy to repost it.

Regardless of phrasing, groups like Hamas, and the Hezbollah, and
even the newly moderate and politically-correct PLO, have at the very
heart of their ideologies the need for the destrcution of Israel.

It just seems to me that Mr. Davidsson's suggestion that Jews support
people envolved in these organizations is not a particularly appealing
one to many Jews.


(Attempting to define 'objective morality'):

      So long as you keep that "almost" in there, freedom will be a
mostly valuable thing, to most people. That is, I think you're really
saying, "a real big lot of people agree freedom is subjectively valuable
to them". That's good, and a quite nice starting point for a moral
system, but it's NOT UNIVERSAL, and thus not "objective".

      It isn't in Sahara.


Ahhh, of course. Israeli morality pales in the face of charming events
like the string of PLO-run skyjackings in the mid 80's (remember those
TWA jokes?), and not to forget the Achille Lauro and however many airline
bombings they have committed, not to mention bombings on the streets of
Israel (It's gotten to a point where children are told not to go near any
bags or containers whose origins they don't know, because they could be
bombs), or last weeks Katyusha rocket attack on Northern Israel by Fatah,
those wonderful "mainstream moderates" with whom Israel is attempting
to negotiate.

Let's not forget the fact that more Palestinians are killed by Palestinians
than by Israelis.  Ahh yes, those charming humanitarian death squads.
I've actually seen a videotape of an interrogation (DSee the documentary
_Deadly Currents_--very neutral and balanced--seriously)--It was rather
inquisition-esque. essentially, to prove his loyalty to "the cause" of
whichever group it was that was interogating him, he had to turn in someone
else, or else face death in one of the many fun-filled ways that the death-
squads love so much--beatings, dismemberment, acid, pouring melted plastic
on the face of the 'guilty party,' and of course beheading, always my
favorite.  Did you catch the photos in the Washington Post a while back
the execution of a "collaborator?"  3 photos:
1) one Palestinian leading another at gunpoint.
2) The "collaborator" on his knees, the gun pointed at his temple.
3) The executioner standing on the corpse of the "collaborator
shouting about how this is what happens to collaborators.

Wonderful justice system, and lots of regard for Human rights.
Remember Black September?
Ok, so they just tried to take over Jordan, big deal.

I'm rambling now, but are you getting what I'm saying?


I would rather be at a higher risk of being killed than actually killed by
                              ^^^^                      ^^^^^^^^
mistake.  Though I do agree with the concept that the type D and E murderers
are a massive waste of space and resources I don't agree with the concept:

	killing is wrong
	if you kill we will punish you
	our punishment will be to kill you.

Seems to be lacking in consistency.


The screws are Torx screws and the tool isn't to hard to find. It's a
matter of finding one with a long enough shaft to do the trick.

No it is not a good idea to take that fan out.  Why because it will
cause stuff to over heat.  Internal hard drives, motherboard...You name
it and this can cause damage.  I've known people to have hard drive
failures because of fans that didn't work right....


Hi there,

	Does anyone know about any greek database/word processor that
can do things like count occurrences of a word, letter et al?

	I'm posting this up for a friend who studies greek.

Thanks,

Nico.

P.S.	Can you email as I seldom look into usenet nowadays.
--
+--------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
+--------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


[deleted]
[]       And as far as fully-automatic weapons, you can be a lot better
[]armed if you want to hit what you aim at.
[]

Define "armed better". Go shoot a revolver and a semi-auto like the
Colt .45. Does one fires faster than the other? Nope. Aside from which
faster rate of fire is usually not desirable. Sure it makes the other
guys duck for cover, but just *YOU* trying hitting anything with a Thompson
in hose-mode. This is why the military is limiting it's M-16 now to
3-round burst-fire. Simple semi-auto would be better, but the troops
like to be able to rock and roll even if it is wasteful of ammo (something
often in short supply when the enemy is plentiful).

A revolver is equally capable as a semi-auto in the same caliber.

- A revolver also has the advantage that if it misfires you just pull
  the trigger again.
- A double-action revolver (almost all of them) can be hand-cocked first,
  but will fire merely by pulling the trigger.
- A misfire in a revolver merely means you must pull the trigger again
  to rotate to the next round.
- A revolver can be carried with the 6th chamber empty and under the
  hammer for maximum safety, but still can be drawn and fired with an
  easy motion, even one handed.
- Speedloaders for a revolver allow reloads almost as fast as magazines
  on semi-autos. Can be faster depending on users.

- A misfire in a semi-auto will require you to clear a jammed shell
  first, time spent which can be fatal. And a vital second or so is often
  lost as you realize "hey, it's jammed!" before starting to do anything
  about clearing it.
- Most semi-autos must have the slide worked to chamber the first round
  and cock the hammer. Some police carry their semi-autos with the
  chamber loaded and hammer cocked, but a safety engaged. I do not consider
  this safe however. You must trade-off safety to get the same speed
  of employment as a revolver.
- There are some double-action semi-autos out there, but the complexity of
  operation of many of them requires more training.

Some police departments switched to Glocks, and then started quietly
switching many officers back to the old revolvers. Too many were having
accidents, partly due to the poor training they received. Not that Glocks
require rocket scientists, but some cops are baffled by something as complex
as the timer on a VCR.

Anyone who goes anyone saying that the criminals obviously outgun
the police don't know nothing about firearms. Turn off COPS and Hunter
and pay attention. I do not seek here to say "semi-autos are junk"
merely that assuming they are better for all jobs is stupid. A cop
with a revolver on his hip and a shotgun in the rack is more than
equipped for anything short of a riot.

Gun control is hitting what you aim at. If you whip out a
wonder-nine and fire real fast you may find you don't hit anything.
Good controlled fire from a revolver is more likely to get you a hit.
I own a 9mm Beretta myself but consider it inferior as a carry weapon
to something like the Ruger Security Six revolver. If I haven't hit
what I'm aiming at in the first 5 shots, something is quite seriously
wrong somewheres. While I might like having the backup capacity of those
extra shots in certain cases, overwhelmingly the # of shots fired in
criminal encounters is less than 5.

What do crooks overwhelmingly use in crime? Why the same nice simple
.38 revolvers that the police often use. Well actually some police
prefer the much heftier .357 Magnum, but anyway.....

ObPlea: Don't flame me, I prefer semi-autos for most things. But they
        introduce unneccessary complications to something as nerve-wracking
        as an abrupt encounter with a lone criminal.


I need to reduce the speed of a Boxer fan by about 30-50%. I recall
reading somewhere that the right capacitor in series will do it.

If this isn't a case of brain fade, can someone suggest the cap value ?

The specifics; It's a real Boxer Fan (tm). The label says 115 V, .2 amps.

Al Dykes


SW8,SW7	number of 5.25" drives
0,0	1 drive
0,1	2 drives
1,0	3 drives
1,1	4 drives

SW6,SW5	type of display
0,0	reserved
0,1	40x25 color (mono mode)
1,0	80x25 color (mono mode)
1,1	mono 80x25

SW4,SW3	amount of memory on system board
	64k chips	256k chips
0,0	64k		256k
0,1	128k		512k
1,0	192k		576k
1,1	256k		640k


That doesn't worry me at all; they're not going to cheat at something
they can get caught at.  And key size is one of the things that can be
verified externally.  Feed lots of random key/input pairs into the
chip, then try flipping random key bits, and see what happens to the
output.  We already know what *should* happen -- about half the output
bits should vary, on average, from a 1-bit key change or input change.

If they were out to build a weak cryptosystem, it might be the case that
some of the bits are much less powerful than others, in the sense that
they only enter into the encryption very late in the game.  By contrast,
DES was designed to use each key bit as early as possible; the 50% output
change rate appears as early as round 5.  Again, though, I don't think
NSA is going to cheat that crudely; they're likely to get caught.

Remember that they've promised to let a committee of outside experts see
the cryptosystem design.  If you assume something DES-like, a biased
subkey generation schedule will stick out like a sore thumb.  The committee
can and should run lots of tests, and retain the output.  This can be verified
later against the chip.  And yes, the civilian community has at least some
secure storage facilities that I don't think even NSA can get into without
it being noticed, until Fort Meade gets its transporter working again.
(Oops -- I don't think I was supposed to talk about that...)  The committee
members can even retain secure copies of the code -- in two halves, which
you have to XOR together to recover the program...

Seriously, there are, I think, problems with this whole scheme.  But the
people who invented it aren't stupid, and they've been in the crypto game
and the smoke-and-mirrors game far longer than most of us.  They're not
going to lie in ways that can be detected easily, since their credibility
is the *only* thing they can use to sell this system.  If they've lied
about the civilian committee, no one will believe them about the absence
of other back doors.  If they've lied about the key size, no one will
believe that they haven't copied the programming disk with the U keys.
If they've lied about obvious aspects of the strength of the cryptosystem,
no one will believe the escrow agencies aren't in cahoots with them.

That isn't to say that they aren't lying about all those other things
anyway.  And I'm certainly not claiming that NSA can't build a cryptosystem
with a back door that the committee can't find -- look how long it took
for folks to believe that the S-boxes weren't sabotaged.  It's entirely
possible that the committee will release an ambiguous report, for just
such reasons.  But that's a subtle point (i.e., one you can't explain to
a Senator...).

I don't like the unit key generation process any better than you do.
However -- S1 and S2 are supposed to be under control of the same
escrow agents.  If they can't be trusted to keep the seed values secure,
they can't be trusted to keep the half-keys secure.

I still don't know if or when S1 and S2 change.  I thought I had seen
something about them being constant, but I just reread Denning's technical
information post, and it doesn't say anything, one way or the other.


While we're on the multipurpose subject, let's not forget Shea, which
was designed to accommodate both the Mets & Jets.  It was the first
stadium (I think) to have the box seats on rollers so they could be
oriented at right angles for baseball & in parallel for football.

Of course, with the Jets gone to Jersey (and a truly good football
stadium), the Mets are saddled with a multipurpose stadium where,
because it's circular, the seats are almost always too far from the
action.  The Mets announcers--Kiner & Murphy in particular--have
always hyped it as "beautiful Shea
Stadium," a tipoff to how unbeautiful it truly is.


Look, asshole, I got him confused with somebody else.  I didn't flame
you, and I would appreciate it if you extended me the same courtesy.

No, I don't know everything in the world.  Does that surprise you?


To: ad994@Freenet.carleton.ca

JW> 1) Where is there a book or code that will teach me how
JW> to read and write pcx,dbf,and gif files?

JW> 2) How do I access the extra ram on my paradise video board
JW> so I can do paging in the higher vga modes ie: 320x200x256
JW> 800x600x256

JW> 3) anybody got a line on a good book to help answer these question?

Here are some that I have that are very good:

  Graphics File Formats, Kay and Levine, ISBN 0-8306-3059-7
  Supercharged Bitmapped Graphics, Rimmer, ISBN 0-8306-3788-5
  Programmer's Guide to the EGA and VGA Cards, Ferraro,
     ISBN 0-201-57025-4 (has a whole chapter on Paradise SVGA)

Dave


And then cjkuo@symantec.com (Jimmy Kuo) quoth:

Well, either way, the Reds have to play a man down for 3 days.


Finding the circumcenter of a tetrahedron is discussed on page 33 in

CONTOURING: A guide to the analysis and display of spatial data,
by Dave Watson, Pergamon Press,  1992, ISBN 0 08 040286 0, 321p.

Each pair of tetrahedral vertices define a plane which is a
perpendicular bisector of the line between that pair.  Express each
plane in the form Ax + By + Cz = D
and solve the set of simultaneous equations from any three of those
planes that have a vertex in common (all vertices are used).
The solution is the circumcenter.


Elevated levels of Glu and Asp in the blood are able to bypass the
Blood-brain barrier through the circumventricular organs (or CVO), in
particular the adeno and neurohypophysis (pituitary gland) areas.  The
arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, and the median eminence regions
are particularly effected.  CVO areas are not subject to the
blood-brain barrier. These areas control the release of gonadotropin,
which controls the release and flux of steroids governing development,
especially sexual development. Changes in adult rats, which are less
sensitive to Glu than humans, have been observed: after ingesting Glu,
on a chronic basis, cycles of several steroids are disrupted. Blood
levels of somatostatin are significantly reduced, and cyclic release
of steroids becomes flattened.


The Japanese are still on the learning curve as far as nuclear power goes.
This means that unlike the Germans (who do great things all by themselves)
the Japanese tie up with foreign companies. The major one is Mitsubishi
(who else) who have a sharing agreement with GE I think. No chance of a
new design.

Sodium has *lots* of chemical problems. Like it eats stainless steel. Very
slowly but it gets there in the end. Not what I call a desired property.
As for design difficulties, what does sodium do there? It is a bitch and
it is only its chemical properties (flwed though they are) that means it
gets used. Two loops? That's not a design problem? Isolation from air and
water? That doesn't cause design problems? In comparison BWR's a dream rides!

Don't get none of that in a Liquid Sodium Breeder! More steel, more complexity.

Joseph Askew


Cathy Smith posting for L. Neil Smith

Dear Bill --

Very, VERY good -- you made my whole day with this post. Thanks
a lot.

L. Neil Smith


How many NuBus slots do you have?

Applied Engineering has something called the QuadraLink, which is
a card with 4 serial ports that you get at through the comms
toolbox (in addition to the built-in ones) It also comes with
software for fooling applications to open an AE port when they
think they open a built-in port.

They also have a more expensive card with DMA (better performance)
and I _think_ they, or someone else, have a card that handles
8 ports simultaneously.

As I said, with NuBus, you're green. Learn how to use the Comms
Resource Manager to get at the various installed cards.

Cheers,

					/ h+


Have you ever met a chemist?  A food industry businessman?  You must
personally know a lot of them for you to be able to be so certain that they
are evil mosters whose only goal is to inflict as much pain and disease
as possible into the general public.  Gimme a break.

 person who is very sensitive to msg and whose wife and kids are

Because it makes the food TASTE BETTER!  Why does it put salt in food?
Same reason.

Obviously.

Of course not!  (Although I would think that a person like you would be a
big fan of such recycling if that were the case).

On occasion that's probably the case, but in general the idea is that MSG
improves the flavor of certain foods.

No.

No.

Obviously.

As I recall, these are natural by-products of heating up certain foods.
They don't "put it in there".

have a number of criteria in choosing how to process food.  They want to
make it taste good, look good, sell for a good price, etc.  The fact that they
use it tells me that THEY think that it contributes to those goals they are
interested in.  One of those goals is NOT "making people sick".  Such a goal
woud quickly drive them out of business and for no benefit.

Warning of what?  In California there is a law requiring that ANYTHING which
contains a carcinogen be labeled.  That includes every gasline pump, most
foods, and even money cleaning machines (because Nickel is a mild carcinogen).
The result is that now nobody pays any attention to ANY of the warnings.

Why?  What if not 30% of people wanted to buy this ugly, rotten, not-as-tasty
food?  I guess it will just be wasted, huh?  How terribly efficient.

Because it makes food look better.  I LIKE food that looks good.
If vitamin companies want to do that it is fine, but who are you to
tell THEM how to make vitamins?  Who are you to tell ME whether I should
buy flavored vitamins for my kids (who can't swallow the conventional ones
whole).

How do you define "junk"?  Is putting "salt" in food bad?  What about
Pepper?  What about alcohol as a preservative?  What about sealing jars
with wax?  What about vinegar?  You seem to think that "chemicals" are
somehow different than "food".  The fact is that all foods are 100% chemicals.
You are just expressing an irrational prejudice against food processing.


:
: >Similarly, people usually use dB for dBm. Another common mistake is spelling
: >``db'' instead of ``dB'' as you did in your article. See the ``B'' is for
: >``Bell'' company, the mother of AT&T and should be capitalized.
:
: Thus, a deciBell (deci-, l., tenth of + Bell) is a fractional part of the
: original Bell.  For example, SouthWestern Bell is a deciBell.

Out of what hat did you pull this one?  dB is a ratio not an RBOC!

: And the measure of current, Amp, is actually named after both the AMP company
: and the Amphenol company.  Both companies revolutionized electronics by
: simulatenously realizing that the performance of connectors and sockets
: were affected by the amount of current running through the wires.

Sorry.  The unit for current is the AMPERE which is the name of a french-man
named AMPERE who studied electrical current.  The term AMP is just an abbreviation
of it.  The company AMP came after the AMPERE unit was already in use.

: The Ohmite company was the first to characterize resistances by numbers, thus
: our use of the Ohms...

I don't know about this one, but it doesn't sound right.

:
: Alexander Graham Bell, actually, is where Bell came from...
Well you got one thing right!
:
:
:
: Actually, Bel refers
:
: >                          With highest regards,
: >                               Babak   Sehari.
:
: >--
: --
: Joseph Chiu        | josephc@cco.caltech.edu  "OS/2: You gotta get this thing!"
: MSC 380 - Caltech  |
: Pasadena, CA 91126 |   OS/2: The operating system of tomorrow, today.
: +1 818 449 5457    |


I learned when riding bareback as a kid to "palm-reign", by just
pushing on the right side of the horse's neck with your right palm to turn
left - a lot like countersteering. So that came pretty easy to me in the
transition to motorcycles. It took a while however to break my habit of
kicking the rear fender with my heels to go faster.


terminated

It is very possible to connect another internal hard disk in any
macintosh if you can find the space to put it. I have a IIsi that came
with a Quantum 80 meg drive. When I ran into space problems, I slapped in
another 40 meg quantum that I had sitting on a shelf. Here is what I did.

First off, I was concerned about space. Since both drives are Quantum
quarter height drives, I finally decided that the logical place for them
was stacked one upon the other. Fine, they fit snugly. (I have not had a
problem with heat yet, and these drives have been running together for
over two months.

The next problem was connecting the drive. If you have a spare internal
hard disk power cable as I did, then half of your troubles are over. just
splice in the extra cable so that you get one square motherboard
connector and two hard disk power connectors. If you don't have a spare
cable, you will have to buy the wires and connectors which can be found
in any good electronics store for about $10. I would suggest properly
soldering/heatshrinking the connections to reduce the possibility of
shorts or bad connections.

Next, you need a ribbon cable connection. Again, I had a spare hard disk
ribbon cable, and I wanted to be careful in case this didn't word so what
I did was purchase a crimp on 50 pin cable connector that gave me another
male connector in the middle of my spare cable. The part cost $10 again,
and is easily attached with any good wood vice. The theory behind using a
crimp on connector is that if this doesn't work, my original cable is not
damaged, and I can go back to the original setup.

Having done all that, I couldn't be bothered to check the dev notes for
power consumption so I plugged it in and it works like a charm to this
day.

In a mac II, everything should work the same. Be careful with the ID's of
the drive, and ensure that the terminating resistors on both drives are
intact. I did not try this without the terminating resistors but it
seemed logical that if I am splitting the SCSI chain, that the signal
should be terminated at all the ends.

Let me know if you have any more questions.


Henry,

didn't the Little Joe  and Big Joe  get built in under a year?
6 months for little Joe,  and 12 Months for Big Joe?

i thought i saw something on that for  a old mercury film.


I have no doubt that God hears everybody's prayers.
However, He does things His way, i.e. things will happen
only if it is His will.

Now if the question really is "Does God grant everybody's wishes ?"
then you'll get a brutal shot of reality similar to when you didn't
get that toy you wanted for Christmas. You just cannot expect
to get everything you want in this world.

--


@===@                                                                     @===@
 ###  Mark Juric                               A.I. Programs               ###
 ###  mjuric@ai.uga.edu                    University of Georgia           ###
 ###                                       Athens, Georgia 30602           ###
@===@                                                                     @===@


[Pitt vs. Penn State controversy deleted]

No.  It wouldn't be sufficient cause to bitch to the system operator if this
was just some guy saying that atheists are going to hell.  The point was
that recently many messages were posted from that address.  Each of these
messages was posted to a different newsgroup, with the apparent intent of
provoking the readers of that particular group.  This, along with the fact
that these posts were written in all-caps, makes these posts suspect.
Whoever is using this account is using it irresponsibly.  If it is the
intended user, they should consider appropriate action.  If it is someone
else-- which seems a possibility, then this is also reason to report it.
	We get many posts in the flavor of the one that started this thread.
It is only because I have seen posts on other groups by this user that I
am considering action.


however, the word "pa^ques" in french _is_ the word for easter.  ask
any francophone, whether from quebec or from paris.  besides, haven't
you heard of the phrase "the paschal lamb" (meaning jesus)?

sorry to nitpick on the more trivial part of this thread....


The problems with Catholic liturgy are likely to continue for
some time.  The problem is, in a nutshell, this: the Liturgy is a
symbolic action - in other words Catholics do [or should] believe that
the _signs_ during the mass - Water, Blessings, Vestments, Altar,
Relics, etc - are real. That is the sprinkling of water bestows real,
almost tangible, holiness, the Vestments are a real indication of real
sacred time. The point of a _symbol_ is that it is understood by all
to be connected to an underlying REAL referent. This kind of thinking
precludes analysis; holy water is not holy because of anything, it
simply IS holy.

But, modern westerners find it extremely difficult, especially if
well- educated, to think of the mass as a symbol. We are more likely
to see it as a _sign_, ie an action that represents grace, but which
could be replaced with other signs. In concrete terms, this means the
mass has become a commercial for God's grace rather than the real
thing. You can mess around with a commercial in a way you wouldn't
dare with the real thing [ask Coca-Cola Co.!]. These attitudes have
been encouraged by Liturgy workshops, etc. which instead of focusing
on _how_ to do do liturgy, have focused on how to create a meaning in
liturgy. You can only create signs, symbols have to come from God [or
the heart, or somewhere deeper than analysis. The most dramatic
example of this shift in understanding has been in the treatment of
the sacred species [the consecrated host and wine]. Now, with pita
bread etc, it is common to come away from the altar with hands covered
in particles. If the Host is a sign of Grace, this isnt and issue; but
Catholics in the past would have been distraught at this real
desacration of the real symbol of Jesus' body.

Modern Catholic liturgy  is caught in this epistemological shift. We
try to perfrom the old rites, but then we have some liturgomaniac
priest get up and 'explain' what we are doing - so we stop doing it and
start pretending to do it. This is not a soul filling experience.
It doesn't help BTW that we have got stuck witha huge amount of two and
three chord ersatz-folk music [again a result of mis-analysis: complicated
tunes are in fact easier to remember than simple ones - this was the
genius of Wesley and the 19C Anglican hymn writers]. Taize' is only
slightly better.

What are we to do? Well I suggest rejecting the parish system if it
doesn't work for you. Search out a Church where the liturgy is well
prepared not well-explained. They exist in every city. This is not BTW
a matter of particular style: the music might be old or new. It is
the attitude of the church that counts. Also, note that a conservative
liturgy - harking back to pre-Vatican II days, does not necessarily mean
the Church will be socially conservative.

In NYC I can recommend:
	Corpus Christi - W 12st St.
	Corpus Christi - W 12st St. - very conservative liturgy,
	St. Joseph's, Greenwich Village.  - Modern, "clean", largely gay
	Oratorian Church, Brooklyn - Very beautiful

Avoid, anywhere, anytime a church with electric candles.

Happy Easter: Christos Aneste', Christos Voskrezhne, Christ is Risen


Well, I think that most Christians believe that your conciousness will
somehow continue on after your 'physical' death, which contradicts what
most atheists (myself included) believe, namely that your conciousness,
being contained in your brain, dies when your brain dies.

I fear the pain that often comes with the process of dying, but since I
won't be around to worry about it, I don't fear eternal death.

This is something I've always found confusing.  If all your nerve endings
die with your physical body, why would flame hurt you?  How can one "wail
and gnash teeth" with no lungs and no teeth?


They spent quite a bit of time on the wording of the Constitution.  They
picked words whose meanings implied the intent.  We have already looked
in the dictionary to define the word.  Isn't this sufficient?

But we were discussing it in relation to the death penalty.  And, the
Constitution need not define each of the words within.  Anyone who doesn't
know what cruel is can look in the dictionary (and we did).


Ah, yes, the big chunks down in the sump. The solution is simple. Sort of
like the advice my Aunt always gave -- never scratch your ear with anything
except your elbow.


THE HAMAS WAY of DEATH

     (Following is a transcript of a recruitment and training
videotape made last summer by the Qassam Battalions, the military
arm of Hamas, an Islamic Palestinian group. Hamas figures
significantly in the Middle East equation. In December, Israel
deported more than 400 Palestinians to Lebanon in response to
Hamas's kidnapping and execution of an Israeli soldier. A longer
version appears in the May issue of Harper's Magazine, which
obtained and translated the tape.)

     My name is Yasir Hammad al-Hassan Ali. I live in Nuseirat [a
refugee camp in the Gaza Strip]. I was born in 1964. I finished
high school, then attended Gaza Polytechnic. Later, I went to work
for Islamic University in Gaza as a clerk. I'm married and I have
two daughters.
     The Qassam Battalions are the only group in Palestine
explicitly dedicated to jihad [holy war]. Our primary concern is
Palestinians who collaborate with the enemy. Many young men and
women have fallen prey to the cunning traps laid by the [Israeli]
Security Services.
     Since our enemies are trying to obliterate our nation,
cooperation with them is clearly a terrible crime. Our most
important objective must be to put an end to the plague of
collaboration. To do so, we abduct collaborators, intimidate and
interrogate them in order to uncover other collaborators and expose
the methods that the enemy uses to lure Palestinians into
collaboration in the first place. In addition to that, naturally,
we confront the problem of collaborators by executing them.
     We don't execute every collaborator. After all, about 70
percent of them are innocent victims, tricked or black-mailed into
their misdeeds. The decision whether to execute a collaborator is
based on the seriousness of his crimes. If, like many
collaborators, he has been recruited as an agent of the Israeli
Border Guard then it is imperative that he be executed at once.
He's as dangerous as an Israeli soldier, so we treat him like an
Israeli soldier.
     There's another group of collaborators who perform an even
more loathsome role -- the ones who help the enemy trap young men
and women in blackmail schemes that force them to become
collaborators. I regard the "isqat" [the process by which a
Palestinians is blackmailed into collaboration] of single person as
greater crime than the killing of a demonstrator. If someone is
guilty of causing repeated cases of isqat, than it is our religious
duty to execute him.
     A third group of collaborators is responsible for the
distribution of narcotics. They work on direct orders from the
Security Services to distribute drugs as widely as possible. Their
victims become addicted and soon find it unbearable to quit and
impossible to afford more. They collaborate in order to get the
drugs they crave. The dealers must also be executed.
     In the battalions, we have developed a very careful method of
uncovering collaborators, We can't afford to abduct an innocent
person, because once we seize a person his reputation is tarnished
forever. We will abduct and interrogate a collaborator only after
evidence of his guilt has been established -- never before. If
after interrogation the collaborator is found guilty beyond any
doubt, then he is executed.
     In many cases, we don't have to make our evidence against
collaborators public, because everyone knows that they're guilty.
But when the public isn't aware that a certain individual is a
collaborator, and we accuse him, people are bound to ask for
evidence. Many people will proclaim his innocence, so there must be
irrefutable proof before he is executed. This proof is usually
obtained in the form of a confession.
     At first, every collaborator denies his crimes. So we start
off by showing the collaborator the testimony against him. We tell
him that he still has a chance to serve his people, even in the
last moment of his life, by confessing and giving us the
information we need.
     We say that we know his repentance in sincere and that he has
been a victim. That kind of talk is convincing. Most of them
confess after that. Others hold out; in those cases, we apply
pressure, both psychological and physical. Then the holdouts
confess as well.
     Only one collaborator has ever been executed without an
interrogation. In that case, the collaborator had been seen working
for the Border Guard since before the intifada, and he himself
confessed his involvement to a friend, who disclosed the
information to us. In addition, three members of his network of
collaborators told us that he had caused their isqat. With this
much evidence, there was no need to interrogate him. But we are
very careful to avoid wrongful executions. In every case, our
principal is the same: the accused should be interrogated until he
himself confesses his crimes.
     A few weeks ago, we sat down and complied a list of
collaborators to decide whether there were any who could be
executed without interrogation. An although we had hundreds of
names, still, because of our fear of God and of hell, we could not
mark any of these men, except for the one I just mentioned, for
execution.
     When we execute a collaborator in public, we use a gun. But
after we abduct and interrogate a collaborator, we can't shoot him
-- to do so might give away our locations. That's why collaborators
are strangled. Sometimes we ask the collaborator, "What do you
think? How should we execute you?" One collaborator told us,
"Strangle me." He hated the sight of blood.


: 	Does anybody out there know how the hand held breathalyzer used
: by our police works?  I would like to hear about this and the more
: general problem of detecting smells by machine.
:
: Thanks, William.
:
: williamb@ee.ubc.ca
:

From what I have read about these little gadgets, it works on
a electrochemical galvanic principle. The sensing unit has a
chemical matrix which produces an electrical voltage proportional
to the amount of chemical compound it is designed for ... in this case
I believe it is the Hydroxyl group???

I have also heard -  not tested :-)  - since common gasoline is also
a member of this Hydroxyl group, it will also cause a failing breathalizer
failure! Next time you get stopped for DUI, say you just siphoned gas from
your neighbors car (you know..... the Oklahoma credit card) and chances
are you won't get a DUI ticket!!!!

Jerry Long