Gordon Rubenfeld responds to Ron Roth:
GR>
GR> RR> Well, Gordon, I look at the RESULTS, not at anyone's *scientific*
GR> RR> stamp of approval.
GR>
GR>    If you and your patients (followers?) are convinced (as you've written)
GR>  by your methods of uncontrolled, undocumented, unreported, unsubstantiated,
GR>  subjective endpoint research - great.  But, why should the rest of us care?

 Gordon, even if you are trying to beat this issue to death, you'll
 never get more than a stalemate out of this one!
 I have never tried to force my type of medicine on any of you. Why
 should I?  My patients are happy. I'm happy. You and your peers seem
 to be the only miserable ones around bemoaning the steady loss of
 patients to the alternative camp.
 Just look at Europe. There has been a steady exodus from 'synthetic'
 medicine for over a decade now, and it'll be just a matter of time
 before more people on this continent will abandon their drug and white
 coat worship as well and visit different doctors for different needs.

GR>     You see Ron, the point isn't whether YOU and your patients are
GR>  convinced that whatever it is you do works; it's whether what you do is
GR>  MORE effective in similar cases (of whatever it is you think you are
GR>  treating) than cupping, bloodletting, and placebo.

 This is very interesting. I have come exactly to the same conclusions
 but in regards to *conventional* medicine.

 You see, I don't just treat little old ladies that wouldn't know any
 different of what is being done, but a bulk of my patients consist of
 teachers, lawyers, judges, nurses, accountants, university graduates,
 and various health practitioners.
 If these people have gotten results with my method after having been
 unsuccessful with yours or their own, I certainly wouldn't lose any
 sleep over whether you or your peers approve of my treatments ---
 let's face it, with all the blunders committed by "scientific" MDs
 over the years, I know a lot of people who hold your *scientific*
 method in much lower esteem than they hold mine!

GR>  As far as we know ayurveda = crystals = homeopathy = Ron Roth
GR>  which may all equal placebo administered with appropriate
GR>  trappings...

  Sorry, but I'm not familiar OR interested with what appears to be
 'NEW AGE' medicine (ayurveda, crystals), with the exception of homeo-
 pathy, of which I took a course. But Gordon, you already knew that -
 you just wanted to make my system look a bit more far out, right?

 I use homeopathy very little, since my cellular test (EMR) is hard to
 beat for accuracy and minerals are more predictable, while homeopathy
 does have a problem with reliability, especially in acute conditions.
 An exception perhaps are homeopathic nosodes which act fairly quickly
 and are more dependable in certain viral or bacterial situations.

GR>  My colleagues and I spend hours debating study design
GR>  and results, even of therapies currently accepted as "standard".
GR>  As good (well, adequate) scientists, we are prepared, *if
GR>  presented with appropriate data*, to abandon our most deeply held
GR>  beliefs in favor of new ideas.

 I have met the challenges of hundreds of sceptics by verifying the
 accuracy of measuring their mineral status to their total satisfac-
 tion --- in other words EVERYONE INVOLVED is happy!
 If you were to cook a meal, would you worry over whether EVERYONE
 in this world would find it to their liking, or only those that end
 up eating it?
 Since I have financed every research project that I have undertaken
 entirely myself, I don't need to follow any of your rules or guide-
 lines to satisfy any aspects of a grant application, which YOU may
 have to; neither am I concerned of whether or not my study designs
 meet your or anyone else's criteria or acceptance.

GR>    Sorry Ron, if conviction were the ruler of truth, a flat Earth would
GR>  still be the center of the Universe and epilepsy a curse of the gods.

 I think there would be more justification for an uneducated person
 growing up in an uncivilized environment to believe in a flat earth,
 than for a civilized, well educated and scientifically trained mind
 to follow the doctrine of evolution.
 Genetic engineering of course is now the final frontier to show God
 how it is (properly) done. Now we've become capable of creating our
 own paradise and give disease (and God) the boot, right?

 But just before we get rid of Him for good, perhaps He could leave us
 some pointers on how to solve a couple of tiny problems, such as war,
 poverty, racism, crime, riots, substance abuse... And one last thing,
 could He also give us a hint on how to control natural disasters, the
 weather, and last, but not least --- peace?

   --Ron--


Actually this stuff from Mogilny doesn't surprise me all that much.  About 4
or 5 weeks ago I read in the Toronto Sun a quote from Alex; it went something
like [sarcastically]:

"Yep, Patty's the man.  He's responsible for the team's success...I'm a
nobody around here."

I was going to post it at the time...I must have forgot since nobody else
was talking about him being a problem.

Yep, I'd beat the shit out of him too.  LaFontaine really must be a team
player...makes you wonder what the Islander management was thinking.
My question is what the hell is Muckler doing?  Whether he wishes to admit it
or not, the team is his to coach, and if he can't do the job then maybe the
job should be given to somebody who can.

Gee, kinda like Alex's spot on the team, isn't it?


fix the table in .../X11R5/mit/server/ddx/sun/ or
use xmodmap(1).

put
  stty pass8; setenv LC_CTYPE iso_8859_1; setenv LESSCHARSET latin1
in your .login. the first prevents the stripping of bit 7.
the second sets the locale. the third makes less(1) show the character
instead of the octal representation.

rj


I also use Retrospect, but I noticed that Central Point Software's
"MacTools Backup" also supports the Apple tape drive under 7.x.
The Apple tape drive is quite slow, so the advantages of Retrospect
relative to the simpler MacTools Backup are less significant than
might be the case for someone backing up a large server to a DAT drive.

Used Apple tape drives are going for ~$100, so it might make less
economic sense to pay an extra ~$140 for Retrospect when MacTools
is cheaper and includes other worthwhile utilities.

Retrospect is nice, though, and I'm probably going to upgrade to 2.0.


the 'Center for Policy Research' writes...

    Considering all the murders of innocent Israelis at the hands
    of Arab death merchants, I see nothing wrong with the advice.

    As usual, the bias of the 'Center for Policy Research' echoes
    through this newsgroup.  Here we have an enraged Likudnik who
    is venting his spleen, and you portray it as if this is going
    to become policy.  You don't say what the response to Matza's
    suggestion was.  Do do not mention whether he was refering to
    terrorists caught in the act, which could be a clear cut case
    of self-defence.  Would you care to elaborate on this, or was
    this all you wanted to say on the matter.  Why don't you give
    up this 'Center for Policy Research' crap, and just post your
    biases without trying to legitimize them with a pompous name?

    A laudable precaution.

    Every single thing you post about Israel is posted to portray
    Israel as negatively as you can.  Deliberate omissions are an
    integral part of the shtick.  And it's not only the incidents
    that you do not mention, but even the stories you do post are
    fraught with omissions, which change the entire meaning.  The
    absurdity of your respectable name cannot hide your bias.

    In your effort to portray Israel in an unfavorable light, you
    have accomplished nothing, except to prove that a respectable
    sounding label like the Center for Policy Research is nothing
    but a smoke screen for someone with a heavily biased attitude
    against Israel and the need to vent it.  You


Hi Gang,

I'd like to subscribe to the White Sox mailing list, if one exists.
Can someone please e-mail me the address?

Thanks alot,
-John


For what it's worth (I haven't confirmed it), a Diamond tech-rep told
me that ALL S3-based video cards use port addresses 0x2E0 and 0x2E8.
If this is true, it appears that you canNOT use more than one S3 card
in your system.

Lance Hartmann (lance%hartmann.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com)
               Yes, that IS a '%' (percent sign) in my network address.


Yes, I know it's nowhere near Christmas time, but I'm gonna loose
Net access in a few days (maybe a week or 2 if I'm lucky), and wanted
to post this for interested people to save 'till Xmas.   :-(
Note: Bell Labs is a good place IF you have a PhD and a good boss, I
have neither.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Xmas light set with 2 levels of brightness

Another version of a variable brightness Xmas light set:
This set starts with a 2 blinker 35 bulb string.

DIAGRAM:  orginal 2 way set

120v---+--b-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--!
       !---b-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-!
                           !
120rtn_____________________!

modified set for 2 level brightness:

                string 1
120v---------*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--!
  \_10K_______*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-!
    5w    !      string 2     !
          b   ________________!
120v rtn__!___!

             ^ Note: no mods to wiring to the right of this point.

Only one blinker is used.

Note that the blinker would not have as much current thru it as the
string 1 bulbs, because of the second string of bulbs in
parallel with it.  That's why the use of the 10K 5W resistor
here to add extra current thru the blinker to make up for the
current shunted thru the second string while the blinker is glowing
and the second string is not glowing.  When the blinker goes open,
this resistor has only a slight effect on the brightness of the
strings, s1 slightly dimmer, s2 slightly brighter.
Or use a 3W 120v bulb in place of the 10K resistor if you can get
one.  Caution, do not replace with a standard C9 bulb, as these
draw too much current and burn out the blinker.  C9 = approx 7W.

What you'll see when it's working:  powerup, string 1 will light
at full brightness, and b will be lit, bypassing most of the current
from the second string, making them not light.  b will open, placing
both strings in series, making the string that was out to glow at a
low brightness, and the other string that was on before to glow
at reduced brightness.


I agree we need sleep & etc, but I disagree we are _just_ animals.
That statement is a categorical negative; it's like saying there are
_no_ polkadoted elephants.  It may be true but one would have to be
omniscient to know for sure.


Back in the 70's I was a service technician for a cash register company.
The cash registers used microprocessor circuits and back then they were
VERY susceptible to electrostatic discharge and line noise.  The biggest
problems came from outlets that were not properly grounded.

In almost every place we went to do an installation, we found outlets
with the ground connected to the neutral.  For 99.9% of the things you
can plug into one of these, they work fine.  For our cash registers they
were a nightmare -- line noise tended to scramble the memory
periodically.

With modern electronics using switching power supplies this should be
less of a problem.  Even the company I used to work for is no longer
recommending a dedicated line with a seperate ground for their
equipment.  I imagine if you check MOST household wiring you will find
that the ground and neutral are connected.  Although not ideal, it
should be o.k. for most applications.

---
 . SLMR 2.1 . My reality check just bounced.


We have a minivas-2 and we want to record to an Abekas A66.
We have most of the functions working but when we go to
set up a record the minivas hangs. We are sending the
abekas SMPTE time code. Does anyone have code we can
compare to what we have done and is there and ftp site
for minivas and abekas code.

Gordon Phillips
glp@cray.com


That's open for debate.  Certainly, an excessive number of people are
murdered every year but people also do save innocent lives with firearms.
The media just don't tell us when it happens...

I think there are more of us than there are federal marshalls...

Crap.  It's simplistic thinking on the part of feather-headed dolts.

Nuts.


Hi,
   I'm currently in the process of writing a number of PD programs
for the sound blaster. The first of which is a CMF voice editor which
is hopefully going to be available soon (as soon as I can get it to
an FTP site).

Anyway the next stage is to use the midi port to enter music and play
the FM synth remotely. The problem is that I have little or no info
on the SB midi port.

I have tried using the Sound blaster freedom project routines, however
this just results in the port locking after a couple of accesses and
loss the of note velocity data byte.

I am using Turbo C and would be grateful for any info or source fragments
may help. When I was in Berlin this summer I saw a book which seemed to
have all this information, but my German is poor to say the least, if anyone
has this book could they please mail me.

My second request for help concerns standard file formats (how can a file
format be standard if you keep it secret ?) I need to know the file format
for instrument bank files *.BNK and Roland music files *.ROL.

Finally does anyone have a source for displaying PCX or GIF files to EGA
or VGA monitors.

Please Help, You know it makes sense.


This sounds a bit high to me.  Still higher accelerations have been endured
*very briefly*, during violent deceleration.  If we're talking sustained
acceleration, I think 30-odd gees has been demonstrated using water immersion.

I doubt that any of this generalizes to another order of magnitude.


I have owned my Sprint from the beginning and that sensor light comes on every
30K to let you know it's time for a check up.  When that light goes on, I just
take it to the delaer tell them "It's that time" and they work on it for 4 hou
and you pay $5 for parts and $100 for labor. (Ahh...what they get for labor)
I currently have about 95K on my Sprint and of all the times I took it in for
service, I never say on the payment sheet anything about the replacement of the
Oxygen sensor.  What the heck is an Oxygen sensor?  As far an I know of, I have
never had that thing replaced in my car and the car is purring like a kitten.
Now, I don't have a/c (Mother Nature does that for me :-) ) and that might have
something to do with it, but I still never heard of an Oxygen sensor.  The only
MAJOR service job I have had on my car (besides getting the tires replaced
if you want to call that a service job) was getting the Rotor, Distributor and
Gasket replaced.  And that was all done within the past 2 months.

What I do at 30K is have a good tune-up, let them replace what ever they need
to, pay the bill (about $125) and go home and don't worry about the car for
another 30K.  Oh, I just remembered something.  If that little sensor light
bothers you, in the fuse box right below the turn-signal lever up against
the dash, there is a swith on the right side.  Flip that switch and the light
will go off.  I do that so that little light won't annoy me.  If you can't
find it, look it up in the car manuel.  I hope that I have helped a little
and good luck with the _Oxygen sensor_?

				- Thomas -


er, excuse me but since the escrow agencies aren't yet chosen, how can you
say they have a "history of untrustworthy behavoir[sic]"?

I'm sure each of us can think of agencies without such a history. Price
Waterhouse has kept the secret of the Academy Awards for many years, even in
the face of an aggressive press. The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee
has successfully kept decisions from leaking for the statutory period until
publication. Even the Department of Agriculture has successfully kept crop
forecasts from leaking prematurely.

Frankly, I'd trust the above (not the D of A, of course since they might be
subject to political pressure) far sooner than the ACLU, EFF, or CPSR which,
though not exactly government apologists, have no particular track record
for internal security that I know of.

David


Once again, Mark, you don't specify the means through which the government
is to be prevented from becoming the tool of business interests.  As a
left-wing, big government, conventional liberal, I'm just as willing as
you are to vote against anti-competitive regulations that favor auto
dealers.

But what I hear from libertarians is a desire to limit incumbents' terms,
to weaken government by eliminating its power to enforce antitrust laws,
and a desire to eliminate legislator's pay.  Each strikes me as a
particularly ineffective way to insure that auto dealers and other special
interests cannot influence public policy.  In fact, they seem clearly
designed to accomplish the opposite.

jsh


	I think this is a misnomer.

	But, this just shows then that painful execution is not considered
"cruel" and unusual punishment. This shows that "cruel" as used in the
constitution does NOT refer to whether or not the punishment causes physical
pain.
	Rather, it must be a different meaning.

---

  " I'd Cheat on Hillary Too."


   >This is turning into 'what's a moonbase good for', and I ought not
   >to post when I've a hundred some odd posts to go, but I would
   >think that the real reason to have a moon base is economic.
   >
   >Since someone with space industry will presumeably have a much
   >larger GNP than they would _without_ space industry, eventually,
   >they will simply be able to afford more stuff.

   If I read you right, you're saying in essence that, with a larger
   economy, nations will have more discretionary funds to *waste* on a
   lunar facility. That was certainly partially the case with Apollo,
   but real Lunar colonies will probably require a continuing
   military, scientific, or commercial reason for being rather than
   just a "we have the money, why not?" approach.

Ah, but the whole point is that money spent on a lunar base is not
wasted on the moon. It's not like they'd be using $1000 (1000R?) bills
to fuel their moon-dozers. The money to fund a lunar base would be
spent in the country to which the base belonged. It's a way of funding
high-tech research, just like DARPA was a good excuse to fund various
fields of research, under the pretense that it was crucial to the
defense of the country, or like ESPRIT is a good excuse for the EC to
fund research, under the pretense that it's good for pan-European
cooperation.

Now maybe you think that government-funded research is a waste of
money (in fact, I'm pretty sure you do), but it does count as
investment spending, which does boost the economy (and just look at
the size of that multiplier :->).


This was known as *Journey to the Far Side of the Sun* in the United
States and as *Doppelganger* in the U.K.  It was produced by the great
team of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson (whose science was usually a bit
better than this).  It may have been their first production using live
actors-- they were better known for their technophilic puppet shows,
such as *Supercar*, *Stingray*, and *Thunderbirds*.  Later, they went
on to do more live-action SF series: *UFO* and *Space: 1999*.

The astronomy was lousy, but the lifting-body spacecraft, VTOL
airliners, and mighty Portugese launch complex were *wonderful* to
look at.


...for very small values of six and nine.


    None. You need to buy 2 80ns 256k VRAM SIMMs. They cost about $30
each from your favorite memory distributor.

    The 512k is soldered to the logic board. There are 2 SIMM slots for
expansion.


For Sale ---

        U.S.Robotics 16.8k HST external modem, including power adapter,
        Users Guide and Quick-Reference Card.

        $515.00.

        Call me voice at (513) 831-0162 -- let's talk about it.

        Herb...


Apple has patented their implementation of regions, which presumably
includes the internal data structure (which has never been officially
documented by Apple).  Apple cannot patent the concept of a region.

I'm guessing that either NuTek reverse-engineered Apple's internal data
structure for regions (I dunno if this would hold up in court), or they
came up with their own data structure.  If it's the latter, then they
won't be able to draw PICT files containing regions.  Besides PICT files,
there aren't many places where regions are stored on disk.  (QuickTime
movies, perhaps?)  As long as the region isn't being stored on disk and
transferred from a Mac to a NuTek clone (or vice versa), it doesn't
matter if NuTek uses a completely different internal data structure.

I remember reading that Apple also has a patent on their ADB hardware,
and that the NuTek clones would therefore be lacking an ADB port.  What
other patents does Apple have on the Mac?


You have missed something.  There is a big difference between being in
the SAME PLANE and in exactly the same state (positions and velocities
equal).  IN addition to this, there has always been redundancies proposed.

Bob
--


Yeah, the news is true...the Leafs lost to the Wings 6-3.
Wish I could say I'd seen the whole game but my husband wanted
to watch "Young Guns II" on another channel. Sometime between
the first time I tuned in and d saw the Leafs tie and the next time
I tuned in and heard the score was 5-1, something happened.
	Please no woofing from Red Wings fans.  They're my third
favourite team, and if they make it past the Leafs I'll wish them
luck.  As for Potvin...well, it WAS his fist playoff game.


You probably mean "RoHypnol", a member of the benzodiazepine family,
chemical name is flunitrazepam. It is such a strong tranquilizer that it is
probably best refered to as a hypnotic, rather than a tranquilizer. Just one
pill will knock you on your ass. Side effects may be similar to valium, xanax,
serax, librium and other benzodiazepines.


Some variant is quite popular.  This, and other arguments, are
discussed in John Leslie Mackie's "The Miracle of Theism: arguments
for and against the existence of God".  Although Mackie ultimately
sides with "against", his arguments are, I think, quite fair to both
sides.  Brief discussions can be found in the alt.atheism FAQs.


Pat> In article <SHAFER.93Apr6094402@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>

Pat> Gee, I thought the X-15 was Cable controlled.  Didn't one of them
Pat> have a total electrical failure in flight?  Was there machanical
Pat> backup systems?

All reaction-controlled aircraft are fly-by-wire, at least the RCS part
is.  On the X-15 the aerodynamic control surfaces (elevator, rudder, etc)
were conventionally controlled (pushrods and cables) but the RCS jets
were fly-by-wire.

Pat> What do you mean?  Overstress the wings, and they fail at teh
Pat> joints?

Navy aircraft have folding or sweeping wings, in order to save space
on the hangar deck.  The F-14 wings sweep, all the rest fold the
wingtips up at a joint.

Air Force planes don't have folding wings, since the Air Force has
lots of room.


I don't know if some lemons are out there, but from personal experience
My brother's has been trouble free.  Not one single repair, only
regular maintainance.  The only work he had done on it was a result
of his stupidity... he stopped suddenly in the middle of a left turn
on a busy intersection, and was rear-ended.  He has a 1989 Plymouth
Sundance.  I would recomend it, but I would also like to say that if
you can wait about six months, ChryCo is coming out with a new car
called the Neon, that is built in the same way as the LH's where.
Good luck with your desiscion.


I hear Daigle will eb the first pick next year. What is the word on Kariya???
Anybody ever seen him play on TV???? Is he also entering the draft???


Re: More on Gun Buybacks

The Denver buy back, trading guns for Denver Nuggets tickets was pretty much
a bust. Very few guns were turned in. The news tried to hype it but
when the best they could do was ".... including a loaded .38..." well,
you get the picture.

A side note- the news also reported that the guns would be checked for
whether or not they were stolen. STOLEN GUNS WILL BE RETURNED TO THEIR
OWNERS!!!!! (They say)

(Does this have anything to do with the rally on the Capital steps yesterday
 in support of the RKBA????)

Even the rally made the 5 pm news on 3 channels :-)


	So, if the Braves run production falls to 1 per game, which is
certainly where it's headed (if they're lucky), does that mean they'll finish
first?


Yes, both dblspaced and non-dblspaced drives can be defragmented. I believe
they use Norton's Speedisk.


Unfortunately, you seem to lack the ability to rate players.  Dave
Winfield has had a better career than half the people in the Hall of
Fame.  Eddie Murray and Darrel Evans are both one of the top 100 players
of all time.  Lee Smith has had probably the greatest long career
of any relief pitcher since 1960, with the possible exception of Gossage.

On the other hand, Kingman probably isn't one of the best 750 players
of all time.

And Reardon, though a good pitcher, isn't in Smith's class career wise.

We're talking 2 of the top 50 players of all time here.  There probably
aren't 5 shortstops in history who were better than these two.

Garvey sucked.  Morris, while a very good pitcher, simply doesn't
belong near Cooperstown.

 Gee, can these guys even compare to

If Puckett and Ryan (okay, no if there) get into to the Hall, they will be
marginal Hall of Famers (unless Puckett keeps hitting like he did last year for
a while longer)

To put this in perspective, here's a listing of the linear weights
values of the careers of the players you mention.  In parenthesis
is how high they are up on the greatest ever list if they make it.
While no one would claim these are perfect rankings, they should give
you a good value of these guys' careers as compared to average players.

Robin Yount 43.0 (41)
Ozzie Smith 42.1 (45)
Dave Winfield 40.3 (53)
Eddie Murray 37.5 (68)
Darrel Evans 35.2 (80)
Kirby Puckett 24.3 (180)
Nolan Ryan 21.6 (219)
Jack Morris 11.8 (478)
Dave Kingman 0.4
Steve Garvey -5.8

To give you an idea of how these numbers compare to those in the Hall:
Of the 71 eligible players whose career stats equaled 35.0, 64 are in the Hall
of Fame. The ones who aren't include 4 19th century players, Ron Santo, Bobby
Grich, and Bob Johnson.

Of those eligible who score between 30.0 and 34.9, 15 of 25 are in.  Of
those eligible who score between 25.0 and 29.9, 24 of 44 are in.


I just gotta ask... What ARE these questions you want to ask an active cop?
Working on your DoD qualfications? B-)

 ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----


So, it's okay to use civilians for cover if you're attacking soldiers
in your country.  (Of course, many of those attacking claim that they
aren't Lebanese, so it's not their country.)

Got it.  I think.  Hmm.  This is confusing.

Could you perhaps repeat your rules explaining exactly when it is
permissible to use civilians as shields?  Also please explain under
what conditions it is permissible for soldiers to defend themselves.
Also please explain the particular rules that make it okay for
terrorists to launch missiles from Lebanon against Israeli civilians,
but not okay for the Israelis to try to defend themselves against
those missiles.


Okay, okay, Norman himself isn't actually for sale.  BUT:

I have two Saturday Even Post's, both of which have Norman Rockwell
illustrations on the front cover.

October 29, 1960  --  with candidate Kennedy on campaign
   -- has, obviously, a Norman Rockwell of Kennedy on the cover

November 5, 1960  --  with candidate Nixon on campaign
   -- And here we have Nixon.  He's not a crook...

These are both in very good condition.
Let me know if you're interested, and to what tune.  ($$)


I dont know about the car comparison but as far as the price goes rest
assured that the street prices for the MX-3 and Escort and (maybe) even
the Honda will be lesser than that of the Saturn you're talking about.
All price comparisons I've seen are based on MSRP and of course the
saturn dealer will sell the car for sticker price whereas the others
will do it way below sticker.


  You're drifting off topic.  In any case, if you check on any of the
topics devoted to gun rights issues, you will find ample evidence that
the "misinformation" is your assertion that the term "the people" in
the Second Amendment has mysteriously taken on a meaning diametrically
opposite the meaning of the exact same term in the First and Fourth
Amendments.


From article <1qvgu5INN2np@lynx.unm.edu>, by osinski@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Marek Osinski):

Thessaloniki is called Thessaloniki by its inhabitants for the last 2300 years.
The city was never called Solun by its inhabitants.
Instabul was called Konstantinoupolis from 320 AD until about the 1920s.
That's about 1600 years. There many people alive today who were born in a city
called Konstantinoupolis. How many people do you know that were born in a city
called Solun.


Erickson did go on the 15 day DL with a pulled muscle in his left side (near
rib cage).  He is on until 4/18/93.

No news as to who the Twins will bring up.
----------------------------------------------
Kevin Hansen
MN Twin Family Study - University of Minnesota
(612)626-7224
khansen@staff.tc.umn.edu
----------------------------------------------
Contact: University of Minnesota Women's Basketball


Amishware has one included in their package. They were advertising here on the
net a couple of weeks ago with a riduculously (That is in a good way, Ted!)
low price. Does anyone remember what it was ?


My fiance has a pc-junior and wants to upgrade to a full 386.  Does anyone
know if we could use the monitor it came with on a new machine?  I heard
it's MCGA or EGA, but not sure which.  Also, does it use cards, so we can
use the drive controller, floppy, etc?

Thanks for the help!
-Bryan


	You mean he talks about those Jews, who, because of their self
hatred, spend all their time attacking Judaism, Jews, and Israel,
using the most despicable of anti-Semetic stereotypes?

	I don't think we need to coin a term like "Jedeo-Nazism" to
refer to those Jews who, in their endless desire to be accepted by the
Nazis, do their dirty work for them.  We can just call them house
Jews, fools, or anti-Semites from Jewish families.

	I think "house Jews," a reference to a person of Jewish
ancestry who issues statements for a company or organization that
condemn Judaism is perfectly sufficeint.  I think a few years free of
their anti-Semetic role models would do wonders for most of them.

Adam

Adam Shostack 				       adam@das.harvard.edu


THE ARMED CITIZEN
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mere presence of a firearm, without a shot being fired, prevents
crime in many instances, as shown by news reports sent to The
Armed Citizen.  Shooting usually can be justified only where
crime constitutes an immediate, imminent threat to life or limb
or, in some circumstances, property.  The accounts below are from
clippings sent in by NRA members.  Anyone is free to quote or
reproduce them.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   Retired Las Vegas deputy police chief Larry Bolden initially
tried to defend himself with a steering wheel bar lock when a
criminal attacked him in his car.  But then the intruder wrestled
it from him, Bolden pulled his pistol and fired several times,
wounding his attacker and stopping the incident.  "He was just a
citizen defending himself," a police official said.
	(The Review-Journal, Las Vegas, Nev., 11/11/92)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   A pair of teenaged robbers armed with a sawed-off shotgun and
handguns took the day's receipts from Brooklyn bodega owner Hector
Martinez.  As they made their getaway, Martinez grabbed his
registered 12-gauge shotgun and gave chase.  When one fired,
Martinez returned three blasts, slightly wounding his assailants.
They fled but were apprehended when they sought medical attention.
	(Newsday, Long Island, N.Y., 01/05/93)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   A sign posted on the door of Roman Paras' shop reads "The
owners of this property are armed and highly skilled to protect
life, liberty and property from criminal attack."  Apparently, a
pair of robbers didn't pause to read it as they threatened Paras'
wife in their Oxnard, Calif., convenience store.  Hearing her
scream, Paras grabbed his .38, ran to the front of the store and
shot it out with the masked and armed men, killing one criminal.
	(The Times, Los Angeles, Calif., 12/04/92)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   Anne Marie Sullivan was showering in her Portland, Oreg., home
one morning when she heard the front door crash in.  She jumped
out of the shower in time to see a man entering the home.  Running
to the bedroom, Sullivan retrieved her boyfriend's pistol and
fired two shots, mortally wounding the intruder.  The dead man had
a lengthy police and prison record.
	(The Oregonian, Portland, Oreg., 01/07/93)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   Mike Baranelli would have let two robbers who burst into a
Birmingham, Ala., barber shop keep his money.  But the 75-year-old
retired teacher was unwilling to surrender his life.  When the
intruders ordered Baranelli, the shop owner, and another man to
lie on the floor, Baranelli pulled his pistol and shot both men in
the head, killing one.  "I felt sure there was going to be three
dead people in there.  I think I had some divine help," Baranelli
said.
	(The Sunday Advertiser, Montgomery, Ala., 01/03/93)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   Believing an elderly Harvey, Ill., couple would again be easy
prey, a knife-wielding home invader instead met death when the
76-year-old homeowner loosed three rounds from a semi-automatic
pistol.  Police said the dead man had been charged several times
for thefts from the couple's home.
	(The Star, Chicago Heights, Ill., 01/07/93)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   The criminal's profile was scheduled to appear on "America's
Most Wanted," but his shot at fame was abruptly canceled by a
Hallandale, Fla., service station clerk.  The Michigan prison
escapee walked into the station and announced a robbery.  Instead
of cash, he got bullets in the head and chest from station clerk
Gary McVey.  Police said McVey acted in self-defense and would not
face charges.
	(The Sun-Sentinel, Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., 12/04/92)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   A Bridgeport, Conn., oil delivery man handed over the few
dollars he had.  But the thug, apparently unsatisfied with his
take, turned his gun on his victim and demanded more money.
Instead of more cash, the deliveryman instead pulled his own
pistol and fired, mortally wounding the robber.  Police said the
dead man had held up a nearby market just before the fatal
incident.
	(The Courant, Hartford, Conn., 01/13/93)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   After repeated burglaries at her San Marcos, Calif., home, Joan
Vessel, 64, was ready with a .38 and a cordless phone when she
heard glass breaking one afternoon.  When she found two teenagers
attempting to get into her woodshed, Vessel fired a warning shot
over their heads, marched them into the front yard and called
police.
	(The Times Advocate, Escondido, Calif., 12/25/92)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   Angry that his auto insurance had been canceled, a client used
brass knuckles to take it out on Brandon, Fla., agent Steven
Taylor.  When his assailant walked out of the office, Taylor
grabbed a pistol kept there and held the former client at gun-
point until police arrived.
	(The Tribune, Tampa, Fla., 01/14/93)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   Dozing one evening at his Exeter, Pa., office, Jim Pisano was
awakened by the barking of his dog.  Sitting in stunned amazement,
he watched as two men smashed out his office window, reached in
and grabbed one of his hunting rifles.  Reaching a pistol on his
desk, Pisano fired several shots, apparently wounding one of the
burglars, and putting them to flight.
	(The Times-Leader, Wilkes-Barre, Pa., 12/09/92)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   Trying on a pair of shoes was just an act for a criminal who
then pulled a knife and demanded money.  When the man advanced,
the Flint, Mich., shoestore owner drew his pistol and fired,
critically wounding the would-be robber.
	(The Journal, Flint, Mich., 01/13/93)
==================================================================
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==================================================================
   Disarmed and pistol whipped after struggling with a pair of
shotgun-toting thugs, Brooklyn, N.Y., pharmacist Soel Melero
continued fighting and managed to retrieve a second-also licensed-
hidden pistol.  Firing three times, the druggist killed one of his
assailants.  The other fled empty-handed.
	(The Daily News, New York, N.Y., 01/18/93)
==================================================================


  I've talked with Mark and he faxed some literature, though it wasn't very helpful-
  just a list of routine names: _BSplineSurface, _DrawString3D... 241 names.
  There was a Product Info sheet that explained some of the package capabilities.
  I also found a review in April/May '92 MacTutor.


This is true, but the main thing the commish i.e. Selig needs to do
is to suspend Bobby Cox.  You *cannot* allow a team to come out at
the ump as the Braves did.  I usually rip umps, but in this case,
the players were dead wrong.  Cox should go for 5 games.  If I
had ever umped a game where that happened, I'd have ejected every
player that came out.  Only Cox and Gant would have been spared, and
then Cox would have gone in the ensuing argument.


I forwarded an old posting about CELP speech compression:

	In case you'd like to experiment with CELP, you can obtain a software
	implementation of the 4800 bps Fed Std CELP coder for free:

	The U.S. DoD's Federal-Standard-1016 based 4800 bps code excited linear
	prediction voice coder version 3.2 (CELP 3.2) Fortran and C simulation source
	codes are now available for worldwide distribution at no charge (on DOS
	diskettes, but configured to compile on Sun SPARC stations) from:

I've since been told that the source of this is on cygnus.com
in /pub/celp.speech.tar.Z

I'm not in a position to; any Sun tcp/ip gurus out there who think they
can marry this with netfone by the end of the week? ;-)  Seriously.  I
think someone with real net access and two sparcs could have this running
by the end of the week.  Then we ask the pgp guys to add a bytestream
crypto filter.  Two weeks at the most.  [Damn, I wish I had my sparc
back... I'm stuck on a 25mhz 386sx]

Share and Enjoy!


: However, unless I
: missed something, the only source they suggested (aside from a hardware RNG)
: that seems available, and unguessable by an intruder, when a Unix is
: fresh-booted, is I/O buffers related to network traffic. I believe my
: solution basically uses that strategy, without requiring me to reach into
: the kernel.

A few more sources are statistics on your filesystems (easily
and quickly obtained) and the output from the "rusage" system
call.

You can also exec a finger to one or more favorite heavily-used
systems, though this can take several seconds.

cf. the source code to RIPEM on ripem.msu.edu.


=I think that's the correct spelling..
=	I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow
=do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking
=that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for
=sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly
=appreciated.
=	In case you don't know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my
=knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic
=object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns
=or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type
=of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might
=extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within
=the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.

Go to the library and look up "corona discharge."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL


Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually happens
after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:

1) Is this a common problem?
2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?

Thanks for any info.
Tom


Could be the (folk?) song "Clementine".  If memory serves, part of it goes:

   In a cavern, by a canyon,
   Excavating for a mine,
   Dwelt a miner, forty-niner,
   and his daughter, Clementine.

Anyone who watched Huckleberry Hound can sing you the chorus :-)
Is there a story/real person behind the song?


It looks like Dorothy Denning's wrong-headed ideas have gotten to the
Administration even sooner than we feared. It's time to make sure they
hear the other side of the story, and hear it loudly!

Phil

------- Forwarded Message

Subject: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption

Note:  This file will also be available via anonymous file
transfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and
via the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717.
     ---------------------------------------------------

                         THE WHITE HOUSE

                  Office of the Press Secretary

_________________________________________________________________

For Immediate Release                           April 16, 1993

                STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY

The President today announced a new initiative that will bring
the Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary
program to improve the security and privacy of telephone
communications while meeting the legitimate needs of law
enforcement.

The initiative will involve the creation of new products to
accelerate the development and use of advanced and secure
telecommunications networks and wireless communications links.

For too long there has been little or no dialogue between our
private sector and the law enforcement community to resolve the
tension between economic vitality and the real challenges of
protecting Americans.  Rather than use technology to accommodate
the sometimes competing interests of economic growth, privacy and
law enforcement, previous policies have pitted government against
industry and the rights of privacy against law enforcement.

Sophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to
protect electronic funds transfer.  It is now being used to
protect electronic mail and computer files.  While encryption
technology can help Americans protect business secrets and the
unauthorized release of personal information, it also can be used
by terrorists, drug dealers, and other criminals.

A state-of-the-art microcircuit called the "Clipper Chip" has
been developed by government engineers.  The chip represents a
new approach to encryption technology.  It can be used in new,
relatively inexpensive encryption devices that can be attached to
an ordinary telephone.  It scrambles telephone communications
using an encryption algorithm that is more powerful than many in
commercial use today.

This new technology will help companies protect proprietary
information, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations
and prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted
electronically.  At the same time this technology preserves the
ability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to
intercept lawfully the phone conversations of criminals.

A "key-escrow" system will be established to ensure that the
"Clipper Chip" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding
Americans.  Each device containing the chip will have two unique

                                2

"keys," numbers that will be needed by authorized government
agencies to decode messages encoded by the device.  When the
device is manufactured, the two keys will be deposited separately
in two "key-escrow" data bases that will be established by the
Attorney General.  Access to these keys will be limited to
government officials with legal authorization to conduct a
wiretap.

The "Clipper Chip" technology provides law enforcement with no
new authorities to access the content of the private
conversations of Americans.

To demonstrate the effectiveness of this new technology, the
Attorney General will soon purchase several thousand of the new
devices.  In addition, respected experts from outside the
government will be offered access to the confidential details of
the algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report
their findings.

The chip is an important step in addressing the problem of
encryption's dual-edge sword:  encryption helps to protect the
privacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield
criminals and terrorists.  We need the "Clipper Chip" and other
approaches that can both provide law-abiding citizens with access
to the encryption they need and prevent criminals from using it
to hide their illegal activities.  In order to assess technology
trends and explore new approaches (like the key-escrow system),
the President has directed government agencies to develop a
comprehensive policy on encryption that accommodates:

     --   the privacy of our citizens, including the need to
          employ voice or data encryption for business purposes;

     --   the ability of authorized officials to access telephone
          calls and data, under proper court or other legal
          order, when necessary to protect our citizens;

     --   the effective and timely use of the most modern
          technology to build the National Information
          Infrastructure needed to promote economic growth and
          the competitiveness of American industry in the global
          marketplace; and

     --   the need of U.S. companies to manufacture and export
          high technology products.

The President has directed early and frequent consultations with
affected industries, the Congress and groups that advocate the
privacy rights of individuals as policy options are developed.

                                3

The Administration is committed to working with the private
sector to spur the development of a National Information
Infrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer
technologies to give Americans unprecedented access to
information.  This infrastructure of high-speed networks
("information superhighways") will transmit video, images, HDTV
programming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone
system transmits voice.

Since encryption technology will play an increasingly important
role in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act
quickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding
its use.  The Administration is committed to policies that
protect all Americans' right to privacy while also protecting
them from those who break the law.

Further information is provided in an accompanying fact sheet.
The provisions of the President's directive to acquire the new
encryption technology are also available.

For additional details, call Mat Heyman, National Institute of
Standards and Technology, (301) 975-2758.

- - ---------------------------------

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S
TELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE

Q:   Does this approach expand the authority of government
     agencies to listen in on phone conversations?

A:   No.  "Clipper Chip" technology provides law enforcement with
     no new authorities to access the content of the private
     conversations of Americans.

Q:   Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on
     a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation
     encrypted using the device.  What would they have to do to
     decipher the message?

A:   They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a
     court order, to do the wiretap in the first place.  They
     would then present documentation of this authorization to
     the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and
     obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug
     smugglers.  The key is split into two parts, which are
     stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key
     escrow system.

Q:   Who will run the key-escrow data banks?

A:   The two key-escrow data banks will be run by two independent
     entities.  At this point, the Department of Justice and the
     Administration have yet to determine which agencies will
     oversee the key-escrow data banks.

Q:   How strong is the security in the device?  How can I be sure
     how strong the security is?

A:   This system is more secure than many other voice encryption
     systems readily available today.  While the algorithm will
     remain classified to protect the security of the key escrow
     system, we are willing to invite an independent panel of
     cryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all
     potential users that there are no unrecognized
     vulnerabilities.

Q:   Whose decision was it to propose this product?

A:   The National Security Council, the Justice Department, the
     Commerce Department, and other key agencies were involved in
     this decision.  This approach has been endorsed by the
     President, the Vice President, and appropriate Cabinet
     officials.

Q:   Who was consulted?  The Congress?  Industry?

A:   We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on
     encryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify
     as we carry out our review of encryption policy.  We have
     briefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the
     decisions related to this initiative.

Q:   Will the government provide the hardware to manufacturers?

A:   The government designed and developed the key access
     encryption microcircuits, but it is not providing the
     microcircuits to product manufacturers.  Product
     manufacturers can acquire the microcircuits from the chip
     manufacturer that produces them.

Q:   Who provides the "Clipper Chip"?

A:   Mykotronx programs it at their facility in Torrance,
     California, and will sell the chip to encryption device
     manufacturers.  The programming function could be licensed
     to other vendors in the future.

Q:   How do I buy one of these encryption devices?

A:   We expect several manufacturers to consider incorporating
     the "Clipper Chip" into their devices.

Q:   If the Administration were unable to find a technological
     solution like the one proposed, would the Administration be
     willing to use legal remedies to restrict access to more
     powerful encryption devices?

A:   This is a fundamental policy question which will be
     considered during the broad policy review.  The key escrow
     mechanism will provide Americans with an encryption product
     that is more secure, more convenient, and less expensive
     than others readily available today, but it is just one
     piece of what must be the comprehensive approach to
     encryption technology, which the Administration is
     developing.

     The Administration is not saying, "since encryption
     threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement,
     we will prohibit it outright" (as some countries have
     effectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that "every
     American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an
     unbreakable commercial encryption product."  There is a
     false "tension" created in the assessment that this issue is
     an "either-or" proposition.  Rather, both concerns can be,
     and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned,
     balanced approach such as is proposed with the "Clipper
     Chip" and similar encryption techniques.

Q:   What does this decision indicate about how the Clinton
     Administration's policy toward encryption will differ from
     that of the Bush Administration?

A:   It indicates that we understand the importance of encryption
     technology in telecommunications and computing and are
     committed to working with industry and public-interest
     groups to find innovative ways to protect Americans'
     privacy, help businesses to compete, and ensure that law
     enforcement agencies have the tools they need to fight crime
     and terrorism.

Q:   Will the devices be exportable?  Will other devices that use
     the government hardware?


There was a Volvo owner that had $3000 dollars worth of improvements to the
looks of the car by hail :).


I have a 486DX 25mhz with local bus.  Would I see much of an increase in
speed in my drives if I got a VESA IDE controller card?  I need advice!


	Ah, so now we're into European player bashing?  What next?
No more French Canadiens?  Yeah, there's an idea!  Let them French-
speaking Canadiens have their own hockey league!  We don't want them!
	Are you _CRAZY_?  The NHL is one of the true international
leagues, and yes, there _ARE_ many Europeans who deserve to play in
the NHL and are better than some North Americans, look at Teemu!!!
I, for one, am glad to see Europeans in the NHL and I hope the
NHL soon expands to Europe.  Its nice to see all these different
people come together to form the (soon to be) 26 hockey teams.

Darryl Brooks                    University at Buffalo
                __                 ______                        ///
       | |     /  \  \ \     / /  / _____          / /         ////
       | |    / /\ \  \ \___/ /  (  \          ---/-/---       ///
       | |   / /__\ \   \   /      \  \       ---/-/---       ///
 \______/  / /      \ \  | |     ______/                  ///////


Hello.

     I purchased a video card called ET-4000 true color card which
     can provide about 1700K colors. But the question is I can't find
     the corresponding drivers for windows 3.1 , I am now using 65k
     colors driver for win31. It works fine , but I think it will be
     better if I use 1700k driver. So, please tell me whether such a
     driver is available !

     Thanks in advance.


...

Open up the .PIF file with the PIF Editor, click on the "Advanced" button,
and then reserve the PrtSc key for the application.  Any keys that you
select in this section will be passed along to the application rather than
being processed by Windows.


un, you better add at least another plus to the Pederson
for Neely trade, the Bruins also received a number 1 round
draft pick, didn't play great this year but Wesley's still a
decent defenseman....  And the Bruins got Pederson back eventually
anyway.....

             Pat Ellis

P.S.  GO BRUINS    GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS    42-1-2       NUMBER 1......

                   HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS.....
                   HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>......
                   PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER.......
         NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hello world,

I want to write my Xt-application code like this:

{
    do_some_work();
    /* now I need some user input */
    XmCreateDialog();
    wait_for_user_input(input);
    if (input == "OK") {
       more_work();
    } else {
       other_work();
    }
}

So "more_work() and other_work()" are not in callback functions but the
application simply waits for the user to answer the question.

How can I code this in my Xt/Motif-application?

Thanks very much in advance.

Greetings, Huub.


There have been a *lot* of posts lately about "I wanna buy my first bike - is a
GSXR/ZX/CBR/FZR a good bike to learn on?" etc.

I think I'm going to put together a FAQ on buying a new bike. Ravi used to post
one all the time.


   >Finally, because there is essentially no possibility of intercepting in
   >realtime the scrutable content of communications between stolen instruments,
   >there will exist strong motivation to record and archive _all_ communications
   >in the network for ex-post-facto scrutiny (once some criminal act is
   >discovered, and the instruments involved have been identified).

"All" is a *very* big number.  The AT&T Long Distance network has
around 20,000 T3 trunks (45 Mbit/sec), which is on the order of 10**12 bits/sec.
That doesn't even count the amount of traffic in the LOCAL phone companies,
or our long-distance competitors.  It's about 200 Exabytes tapes / second,
which is pretty large even for the NSA :-)

On the other hand, I can easily see them recording the traffic for
"interesting" people, such as dissidents, suspected criminals,
foreign telephone calls, and anybody noticed using encryption.
As Ken Shiriff speculates, recording encrypted traffic will probably
be judged not to be an invasion of privacy pretty soon ....


I am using X11R5patch23 with the R5-SUNOS5 patch posted on export.
I did optionally apply the patch.olit.

libXmu compiles fine .. when I try to use it with clients (i.e. bmtoa and
twm), I get errors ... I can not figure out what is wrong:

gcc -fpcc-struct-return -o twm gram.o lex.o deftwmrc.o add_window.o gc.o list.o twm.o  parse.o menus.o events.o resize.o util.o version.o iconmgr.o  cursor.o icons.o -O2   -R/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib${LD_RUN_PATH+\:$LD_RUN_PATH} -L../.././lib/Xmu -lXmu -L../.././lib/Xt -L../.././extensions/lib -L../.././lib/X -L../.././extensions/lib -lXext -L../.././extensions/lib -lXext -L../.././lib/X -lX11 -L/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib  -lsocket -lnsl
ld: warning: file ../.././extensions/lib/libXext.so: attempted multiple inclusion of file libXext.so
Undefined                       first referenced
 symbol                             in file
XtAppSetWarningMsgHandler           ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtScreenDatabase                    ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtDisplayStringConversionWarning    ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtErrorMsg                          ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtRealloc                           ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtIsManaged                         ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtMalloc                            ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtGetApplicationResources           ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtOwnSelection                      ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtGetConstraintResourceList         ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtCalloc                            ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtName                              ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtStringConversionWarning           ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtAppSetTypeConverter               ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtDisplayToApplicationContext       ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtGetResourceList                   ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtFree                              ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtDestroyWidget                     ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtGetValues                         ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtWarningMsg                        ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtTranslateCoords                   ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtCvtStringToFont                   ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtWidgetToApplicationContext        ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtWarning                           ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtCreateWidget                      ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtWindowOfObject                    ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtVaSetValues                       ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtAppWarningMsg                     ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtGetSelectionValue                 ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
XtResolvePathname                   ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so
ld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to twm
*** Error code 1


That's not true.    I gave you two examples.   One was the rather
pevasive anti-semitism in German Christianity well before Hitler
arrived.   The other was the system of social ranks that were used
in Imperail Germany and Austria to distinguish Jews from the rest
of the population.

Neither of these were very terrible in themselves, but both helped
to set a psychology in which the gradual disenfranchisement of Jews
was made easier.


I agree.  This is the danger I see, not the system itself.  That is to say,
this is a political issue, not a technical one.


[Text deleted, no value judgement implied]

More than shocking.  What this says to me is no less than that government
is very interested in monitoring the public.  This does more than scare me,
it mortifies me.

PGP and RIPEM must become widespread enough to resist what Mr. Finney has
[IMHO correctly] identified as the next logical step.  What was once an
academic discussion with regard to concealing cyphertext, has now become
a real consideration.

The rhetoric that the clinton administration seems obsessed with, harmony,
either or propositions, tension, tells me that they know how difficult
it will be to sell this proposition.

The phrase I hear more and more is "I can't believe this is actually happening
here."  Call me conserative, Clinton was a huge mistake that we'll all be
paying for tommorow and many years from now.

Have we approached the age of speakeasy public key depositiories?

uni (Dark)


  Which one?  The one yesterday, or has there been another?  If it was yester-
day, catch up.

  IMO, 90% of all "conspiracy" charges are easily explained by the simple
fact that in these days of instantaneous news transmission, all kinds of
stuff gets said when people really just don't know what the hell's going on.
Then the story changes once the facts are in and suddenly cries of "its all a
whitewash!" start.  Naturally, everybody wants to cover his/her ass.

  Damnfino.  I just tend to take issue with absolute statements that are ob-
viously wrong on their face and tend to inflame, not inform.  The isolation
was significant, but not total.

semper fi,


Can't we move the political bickering to a more appropriate group?
--
Brad Kepley                  Internet         kepley@photon.phys.unca.edu
Work-days                    Voice            (704)252-8330


On export.lcs.mit.edu directory contrib, and avahi.inria.fr directory pub/xpm:
xpm-3.2f-to-3.2g.patch.Z
xpm-3.2g.tar.Z

/* Copyright 1990-93 GROUPE BULL -- See license conditions in file COPYRIGHT */
/**************************************************************************\
* 									   *
*  			HISTORY of user-visible changes			   *
* 									   *
\**************************************************************************/

3.2g	(93/04/26)

    ENHANCEMENTS:
	- much faster close colors
	- piping from/to compressed files now handles GNU's gzip (.z)  format
	- added XpmColorKey attribute - ability to specify which visual's
	  colors to use (ie: now it's possible to read in a pixmap in a
	  color visual, but use the colors specified for monochrome).
	- added -mono, -grey4, -grey and -color options to sxpm to demonstrate
	  the XpmColorKey attribute.
		- Jason Patterson <jasonp@fitmail.qut.edu.au>

    BUGS CORRECTED:
	- fixed bug where redefining "None" as a pixel stopped mask generation
	- minor SVR4 defines for <string.h>
	- fixed annoying closecolor bug related to read/write color cells
	- fixed minor bug in color value -> pixel overloading
	- manual updated to include new red/green/blue closeness attributes
		- Jason Patterson <jasonp@fitmail.qut.edu.au>

	- the top Imakefile was missing the depend target
	- sxpm/Imakefile fixed so that -L../lib is set before the standard
	  library location.
		- Vivek Khera <khera@cs.duke.edu>

	- lib/xpmP.h now defines bcopy as memcpy for VMS (required by recent
	  versions of VMS)
		- J. Daniel Smith <dsmith@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com>

	- the lib/Imakefile didn't work with X11R4.


If you want to have some fun.

Plug the basic formulas  into Lotus.

Use the spreadsheet auto re-calc,  and graphing functions
to produce  bar graphs  based on latitude,  tilt  and hours of day light avg.


I was planning to use the following pipe to move some display data to a system
that has a color hardcopy unit:

	xwd | xwud -display hostname:0.0

I had tested it with some simple windows like the OpenWindows file manager,
and it worked fine, but when I tried it with a more complex (larger) image,
the xwd part blew up with a segmentation fault.  I tried it without the pipe,
by redirecting xwd's output to a file and then used the file as input to xwud
and got the same error from xwud.  If I had to guess, it seems like it's
running out of memory, but this happened on a SPARC 10 with 64 megs, 128 meg
swap space, and only one user with minimal activity.  The file was about 3 MB.

This verion of xwd/xwud was supplied with the Sun OpenWindows 3.0 distribution
which I believe corresponds to X11 R4.

Any ideas?  Thanks in advance.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Humes        |    Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory
(410) 792-6651    |    humesdg1@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu


 Computers are a special case.. and it's a pretty good idea to
 leave them on.. cuz everytime you turn on a computer, you're
 putting a surge of electricity through its delicate components.
  Imagine you're turning on your computer 5 or more times a day.
 You're increasing the chances of damaging the chips, memory,
 etc on all the components of your computer. So you may save
 a few cents here and there in electricity bills, but it won't
 look like much when it come time to fix your computer.


I've gotten migraines after exercise, though for me it seems to be related
to exercising without having eaten recently.


No.  There are two problems here:

(1) Peter died two millenia ago.  The original letters he wrote have
long since decayed into dust.  If he were alive today and I could
question him, then this might lend credibility to your claims (but
probably not much, because after all, I've heard people claim with all
sincerity that they've spoken with Elvis recently).  But after his
death, Peter's writings were transcribed by monks for centuries, and I
find it hard to believe that one of them somewhere didn't decide to
change the wording of something to make it (in his opinion) a little
easier to understand.

(2) Even if Peter did witness the miracles of Jesus two millenia ago,
that doesn't mean that your deity is what the Bible says it is (God
might just be Satan, trying to convince everyone that he's a nice
guy), or even that your deity is still alive and active in the world
today.

Nice try, but it just isn't enough to convince me, especially since
your wild claims about your deity seem to fly in the face of the way
I've observed the world to work.  Please find something more compelling.


1) The next time you get stoped by a cop, never never never admit to anything.

2) Don't volunteer any information.

3) When a retoracle question is ask by the cop, like "...it <looked> like you were going kinda fast coming down highway 12.  You <must have> been going at least 70 or 75?" -- the correct reponse is to deny it. This technique is employed by police to help establish guilt, especially when (9 times out of 10) he/she is not sure who was doing the speeding. If the cop is unsure this may be the difference of him letting you off the hook or getting the tissue.

Hope this helps for next time.


Four tickets available for the Paul McCartney concert at the Alamo Dome
in San Antonio, TX on May 29th...

GROUND FLOOR SEATS.

Will sell all four, or in pairs:  $100 each.


Are there significant differences between V2.01 and V2.00 ?
Thank you for helping

Marc.


Nobody is using discrete IC's to do these functions anymore if at
all.  I doubt any of the Motor electronics had any to start with.
...Much less TTL.


I'm looking to build a DSP for guitar processing. Hence lots of background
information would be really useful !

If anyone's got any info, could they email.....

Thanks in advance...

Chris ;-)

  +====================================================================+
  |Name : Mr Chris Smith       |     Twang on that 'ole guitar !       |
  |Addrs: scst83@uk.ac.liv.csc |                                       |
  |Uni  : Liverpool University |Quest: To build more and more hardware |
  |Dgree: Computer Science     |                                       |
  +====================================================================+

 "What ever the sun may be, it is certainly not a ball of flaming gas!"
  -- D.H. Lawrence.


Sure.  Contact the World Space Foundation.  They're listed in the sci.space
Frequently Asked Questions file, which I'll excerpt.

    WORLD SPACE FOUNDATION - has been designing and building a solar-sail
    spacecraft for longer than any similar group; many JPL employees lend
    their talents to this project. WSF also provides partial funding for the
    Palomar Sky Survey, an extremely successful search for near-Earth
    asteroids. Publishes *Foundation News* and *Foundation Astronautics
    Notebook*, each a quarterly 4-8 page newsletter. Contributing Associate,
    minimum of $15/year (but more money always welcome to support projects).

	World Space Foundation
	Post Office Box Y
	South Pasadena, California 91301

WSF put together a little paperback anthology of fiction and
nonfiction about solar sails: *Project Solar Sail*.  I think Robert
Staehle, David Brin,  or Arthur Clarke may be listed as editor.

Also there is a nontechnical book on solar sailing by Louis Friedman,
a technical one by a guy whose name escapes me (help me out, Josh),
and I would expect that Greg Matloff and Eugene Mallove have something
to say about the subject in *The Starflight Handbook*, as well as
quite a few references.

Check the following articles in *Journal of the British Interplanetary
Society*:

V36 p. 201-209 (1983)
V36 p. 483-489 (1983)
V37 p. 135-141 (1984)
V37 p. 491-494 (1984)
V38 p. 113-119 (1984)
V38 p. 133-136 (1984)

(Can you guess that Matloff visited Fermilab and gave me a bunch of
reprints? I just found the file.)

And K. Eric Drexler's paper "High Performance Solar Sails and Related
Reflecting Devices," AIAA paper 79-1418, probably in a book called
*Space Manufacturing*, maybe the proceedings of the Second (?)
Conference on Space Manufacturing.  The 1979 one, at any rate.


I think you have to go a little further back.
This opinion comes from riding CB750's GS1000's KZ1300's and a V-Max.
I find no enjoyment in riding a V-Max fast on a twisty road.


Well the attorneys of the Davidians reported on Larry King that
the tanks had actually damaged the structure to the extent that
effectuating egress from the building was difficult at best.
With a rapidly spreading fire and large amounts of smoke and
tear gas, finding the right exits, or acceptible holes in the walls
were nearly impossible.  I find this explanation to be completely
plausible.  Doesn't mean that it's true, but I don't find it
intrinsically less believable than the government stories.

I concur.

Indeed.  According to the lawyers, the Davidian survivors say that
lanterns were knocked over during the "probing" and that's how
the fire started.  A tragic accident, if true.

See above.  This one is going to be thoroughly investigated.  Maybe
we'll eventually get some idea of what happened.  My view is that,
from beginning to end, this operation was a botch and that it is
completely possible that nut cases who were otherwise law-abiding
citizens were victims of a bureaucratic execution.
--
paul hager		hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu


I apologize for the long delay in getting a response to this posted.
I've been working reduced hours the past couple of weeks because I had
a son born (the day after Umar's article was posted, btw).  I did
respond within a couple of days, but it turns out that a a
coincidental news software rearrangement caused postings from this
site to silently disappear rather than going out into the world.  This
is a revision of that original response.

[this was in response to the claim that "Rushdie made false statements
about the life of Mohammed", with the disclaimer "(fiction, I know,
but where is the line between fact and fiction?) - I stand by this
distinction between fiction and "false statements"]

I had not seen that claim, or I might have been less sweeping.  You
have made what I consider factual misstatements about events in the
book, which I have raised in the past, in the "ISLAM: a clearer view"
thread as well as the root of the "Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]"
thread.  My statement was not that you had not read the book, but that
you had not convinced me that you [inter alia] had.  As I said before,
if you want to defend your position, then produce evidence, and
respond to the evidence I have posted; so far you have not.  Of
course, my statement was not directly aimed at you, but broadly at a
number of Muslim posters who have repeated propaganda about the book,
indicating that they haven't read it, and narrowly at Gregg Jaeger,
who subsequently admitted that he hadn't in fact read the book,
vindicating my skepticism in at least that one case.

So far, the only things I have to go on regarding your own case are a)
the statements you made concerning the book in the "a clearer view"
posting, which I have challenged (not interpretation, but statements
of fact, for instance "Rushdie depicts the women of the most
respected family in all of Islam as whores"), and b) your claim (which
I had not seen before this) that you have indeed read it cover to
cover.  I am willing to try to resolve this down to a disagreement on
critical interpretation, but you'll have to support your end, by
responding to my criticism.  I have no doubt as to the ability of a
particular Muslim to go through this book with a highlighter finding
passages to take personal offense at, but you have upheld the view
that "TSV *is* intended as an attack on Islam and upon Muslims".  This
view must be defended by more than mere assertion, if you want anyone
to take it seriously.

And I appreciate it, but welcome to the club.  I am defending my
honest opinion that this book should not be construed as a calculated
(or otherwise) insulting attack on Islam, and the parallel opinion
that most of the criticism of the book I have seen is baseless
propaganda.  I have supported my statements and critical
interpretationa with in-context quotes from the book and Rushdie's
essays, which is more than my correspondents have done.  Of course,
you are more than welcome to do so.


I just got a copy of Tobias' Managing Your Money v9.0.  I have Quicken 6,
and it's wonderful for some things, but MYM seems to have some features
that Q6 doesn't.  For example, Q6 doesn't seem to be able to handle
monthly automatic deductions from a checking account (you know, a
monthly payment that gets electronically deducted every month from
my checking account).  Or is there something that I'm not doing right,
and Q6 can actually do that?  Anyway, MYM seems to be able to handle
monthly deductions.  In fact, it can apparently do better than that.
That is, you can specify monthly, bimonthly, quarterly, even yearly.
Anyway, is anyone aware of a comparitive study of the two programs?
Or can someone just give me their own personal impressions?  Maybe
someone who has used both.  Or maybe someone who is familiar with
each could give me a capsule review?  Anything would be greatly
appreciated.  If I keep MYM, I have to pay for it, and I don't know
whether it's worth doing.  If MYM is better than Q6, of course I
will keep it.  But if Q6 can do everything MYM can do (maybe even
better), I won't.  Thanks all!


=========================
=Car Audio System Items:=
=========================

Sony XR-7070 Head Unit (Radio): Pullout
==============================
20 W x 4 max. Dolby B. Controls all Sony CD Changers: disc/track
select; track/disc scan; repeat; shuffle play. Features auto reverse;
logic controls. 6AM/18FM presets; strong station memory; preset scan;
tuner monitor; seek/manual tuning; mono/stereo and local/dx switches.
Metal tape compatible. Fader.......Orig $299

Sony CDX-A15 10 Disc CD Changer:
===============================
4x oversampling, dual D/A converters with single clock design. Features
one-beam laser; spring and silicon-charged suspension system; horizontal
or vertical mounting; 13-pin DIN connector; 10-disc magazine; connecting
cable. 5-20,000 Hz; 0.05% THD.......Orig $399

**** ASKING **** $450 for Both the Radio (CD Controller) and the CD Changer.
There are no problems with either unit and they are both in reasonably good
condition. (The Radio and CD Changers will only be sold TOGETHER.).

TWO (2) Coustic Amp-360:
========================
3 Channels; bridgeable. 30w x 2 + 105w X 1 into 4 ohms from 20-20,000 Hz
with 0.09% Thd. 1 Channel - 150w x 1 into 4 ohms from 20-20,000 Hz with
0.2% Thd or 2 Channels - 65w x 2 into 4 ohms from 20-20,000 Hz with 0.09%
Thd. 2 ohm stable. Features pwm switching power supply w/ protection
circuits.......Orig $249

**** ASKING **** $150/each. The units are in good working condition and
are currently being used to supply power to my subs (Can demonstrate
power ratings!!).

If you are interested in any of the above items, or have any questions
drop me some E-Mail.


Peter,

I believe this is your most succinct post to date. Since you have nothing
to say, you say nothing! It's brilliant. Did you think of this all by
yourself?

-marc


  No, that's praying on the young.  Preying on the young comes
  later, when the bright eyed little altar boy finds out what the
  priest really wears under that chasible.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM

They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,
and sank Manhattan out at sea.


William December Starr writes...

in a typical lawyer baiting fashion, as usual.

(All the while ignoring every principle of the ACLU.)

Good to see your still out there WDS. Surely we've
been around the ring enough by now, that you know
you can't spin me up with expletives.

Let's see if there's anything left worth responding to...

E for effort. Heard about the folks who live around foghorns and
airports?

Seems right in character to me -- creature of the state.
Btw, are you still happy with your presidents?

See the part about the children following the "and" in the first line
above.

As to a connection, your "cult" is "faith in rules".

Sure. My concern is the well being of the children.

{Interesting that you would respond "emotionally" in defense of the
government. Maybe there is a beating heart there.}

For the record though, the biggest-baddest goverment on earth claims
the most sovereignty over man. Best I can tell God allows anyone to
go to hell who wants to. Omnipotency logically determines that "allowing"
and "sending" mean the same thing.  (Mere human concepts of course.)

So come on WDS. Why bother to try some flimsy facade of logic. Waco
proves it's not needed -- the demonstration that government can walk
over it's own rules in the name of justice has been made. No problem
by me. Noted and announced -- for the record. Just giving the govern-
ment it's due, and getting back to more worthwhile non-government
concerns.


If anyone has the current Moto Guzzi National Owners Club
address please e-mail it to me. Thanks in advance!
T.K.


Note: I am *not* a cable freak, so I might have completely
misunderstood what you said.  Also, my math is frequently noted for
being wrong, so you'll better check the calculations yourself.

I assume that 14.4K means 14.4K Bits.  So if we assume one start and
one stopbit, and no protocol overhead, the effective number of bytes
per second is 1.44K.

Let's also assume that you do not want to transmit your speech in
stereo, so that you can send 1,440 samples/sec.  This corresponds to a
Nyquist frequency of 720 Hz, which should be too low, especially if
you think about the 8-bit low quality sound.  Furthermore, your D/A
converter will probably not present you with a signal that has been
cut off at 720 Hz, but will instead alias in all the higher
frequencies.  (Although you can definitely build a filter to overcome
that problem.)

On the other hand, speech should be easily compressible.  For example,
you could form power spectra, or you could simply band-pass filter and
then linearize the fourier transforms.  It won't be CD quality sound,
but it'll be discernible.  The power spectrum method is very good in
that respect.  I have once programmed such a software compressor, and
compression rates of 90% with relative errors due to linearization of
less than 5% were common.  Although I must say that these were musical
sounds, not speech.

Have fun.


The National Air & Space Museum has both the prototype and the film.
When I was there, some years ago, they had the prototype on display and
the film continuously repeating.


Anyone,

    I am a serious motorcycle enthusiast without a motorcycle, and to
put it bluntly, it sucks.  I really would like some advice on what would
be a good starter bike for me.  I do know one thing however, I need to
make my first bike a good one, because buying a second any time soon is
out of the question.  I am specifically interested in racing bikes, (CBR
600 F2, GSX-R 750).  I know that this may sound kind of crazy
considering that I've never had a bike before, but I am responsible, a
fast learner, and in love.  Please give me any advice that you think
would help me in my search, including places to look or even specific
bikes that you want to sell me.

    Thanks  :-)


Anyone know what would cause my IIcx to not turn on when I hit the keyboard
switch?  The one in the back of the machine doesn't work either...
The only way I can turn it on is to unplug the machine for a few minutes,
then plug it back in and hit the power switch in the back immediately...
Sometimes this doesn't even work for a long time...

I remember hearing about this problem a long time ago, and that a logic
board failure was mentioned as the source of the problem...is this true?


I second that suggestion.  Although I don't own the HP Portable Deskjet,
I *do* own the HP Deskjet 500.  It gives the nicest outputs, with only
a minor loss of quality.   For all intensive purposes (papers, letters,
resumes), I treat my Deskjet like a laser printer (You *do* have to
look a bit closely to see the blurs in the characters).  Only one
grudge, the ink that HP gives you does smudge rather quickly in the
presence of moisture (Even though the ink is waterproof).  However,
you would have to spend about $500 more for laser quality.

The cannon bubblejets are nice, however they don't seem to have as
much support (eg: drivers for popular programs) as the HP ink-jets.
Also HP Deskjet (regular,plus,500,500c) accepts xerox paper (I believe
that the cut-sheet feeder is an option for the cannon bubblejet).

If you don't mind refilling your printer with cheap ink (say
fountain-pen ink), then the HP deskjets are *very* cheap to maintain
(I paid $3.50 for my last bottle of ink and I expect it to last 9
months).

	-Kimball (who doesn't work for HP, but just loves his printer
		  very much!)


(Deletion)
(Deletion)

An universe it has created. By the way, can you tell me why it is less
tyrannic to let one of one's own creatures do what it likes to others?
By your definitions, your god has created Satan with full knowledge what
would happen - including every choice of Satan.

Can you explain us what Free Will is, and how it goes along with omniscience?
Didn't your god know everything that would happen even before it created the
world? Why is it concerned about being a tyrant when noone would care if
everything was fine for them? That the whole idea comes from the possibility
to abuse power, something your god introduced according to your description?


I am not sure whether I am here in the right area, but does
anybody here know whether Windows NT does/will include a X
Windows server so that it can run X Window applications
remotely? This is because we are considering at our university
to use PC's for word processing and program development,
whereas the bigger jobs are to be run either on SUN
workstations or on Fujitsu super computers.

Thank you very much in advance,
Hein.


 Are you using the traditional radiosity method, progressive refinement, or
  something else in your package?

 If you need to project patches on the hemi-cube surfaces, what technique are
  you using?  Do you have hardware to facilitate the projection?

  What are the guest username and password for this ftp site?

   Thanks, Stephan.


on wednesday morning, another driver decided to illegally
		turn left in front of me, doing great damage to my car
		(Honda Civic).
		i have yet to pay off the car, and the body shop says the
		insurance company wants to total the car.  i haven't
		been able to get in touch with the person handling my claim,
		so i checked on some things:

			1) my payout is $3700.00
			2) Blue Book retail is $5650.00
			3) loan value is $4450.00
			4) trade-in value is $4000.00

		could anyone give me any advice on what i should/could do
		if the insurance company does not give me a reasonable
		amount for the loss of the car.

				thanks,
				james baker


At the cost of repudiating the FAQ, I think too much is made of the
strong vs weak atheism issue, although in the context of alt.atheism,
where we're continually attacked on the basis that strong atheists
"believe" in the non-existence of god, I think the separation is a
valid one.

To cover my arse, what I'm trying to say is that there is an
infinitely grey area between weak and strong, as well as between
strong and the unattainable mathematical atheism (I wish!).  Whereas I
_logically_ can only support the weak atheist position, in effect I am
a strong atheist (and wish I could be a mathematical one).  To
justify my strong atheist position I believe I need only show that
the evidence presented in favour of any of the gods under scrutiny
is faulty.

If I read the FAQ correctly, no argument for the existence of god
(generic, as represented by mainstream theologians) has ever been
found to be unassailable.  To me this is adequate evidence that the
_real_god_ is undefinable (or at least no definition has yet been
found to be watertight), which in turn I accept as sufficient to
base a disbelief in each and every conceivable god.

I'm a little fuzzy on the edges, though, so opinions are welcome
(but perhaps we should change the thread subject).