I differ with our moderator on this.  I thought the whole idea of God coming
down to earth to live as one of us "subject to sin and death" (as one of
the consecration prayers in the Book of Common Prayer (1979) puts it) was
that Jesus was tempted, but did not succumb.  If sin is not part of the
basic definition of humanity, then Jesus "fully human" (Nicea) would not
be "subject to sin", but then the Resurrection loses some of its meaning,
because we encounter our humanity most powerfully when we sin.  To distinguish
between "human" and "fallen human" makes Jesus less like one of us at the
time we need him most.

First, the Monophysites inherited none of Nestorius's version -- they
were on the opposite end of the spectrum from him.  Second, the historical
record suggests that the positions attributed to Nestorius were not as
extreme as his (successful) opponents (who wrote the conventional history)
claimed.  Mainly Nestorius opposed the term Theotokos for Mary, arguing
(I think correctly) that a human could not be called Mother of God.  I mean,
in the Athanasian Creed we talk about the Son "uncreate" -- surely even
Arians would concede that Jesus existed long before Mary.  Anyway, Nestorius's
opponents claimed that by saying Mary was not Theotokos, that he claimed
that she only gave birth to the human nature of Jesus, which would require
two seperate and distinct natures.  The argument fails though, because
Mary simply gave birth to Jesus, who preexisted her either divinely,
if you accept "Nestorianism" as commonly defined, or both natures intertwined,
a la Chalcedon.

Second, I am not sure that "Nestorianism" is not a better alternative than
the orthodox view.  After all, I find it hard to believe that pre-Incarnation
that Jesus's human nature was in heaven; likewise post-Ascension.  I think
rather that God came to earth and took our nature upon him.  It was a seperate
nature, capable of being tempted as in Gethsemane (since I believe the divine
nature could never be tempted) but in its moments of weakness the divine nature
prevailed.

Comments on the above warmly appreciated.

Jason Albert

[There may be differences in what we mean by "subject to sin".  The
original complaint was from someone who didn't see how we could call
Jesus fully human, because he didn't sin.  I completely agree that
Jesus was subject to temptation.  I simply object to the idea that by
not succumbing, he is thereby not fully human.  I believe that you do
not have to sin in order to be human.

I again apologize for confusing Nestorianism and monophysitism.  I
agree with you, and have said elsewhere, that there's reason to think
that not everyone who is associated with heretical positions was in
fact heretical.  There are scholars who maintain that Nestorius was
not Nestorian.  I have to confess that the first time I read some of
the correspondence between Nestorius and his opponents, I thought he
got the better of them.

However, most scholars do believe that the work that eventually led to
Chalcedon was an advance, and that Nestorius was at the very least
"rash and dogmatic" (as the editor of "The Christological Controversy"
refers to him) in rejecting all approaches other than his own.  As
regular Usenet readers know, narrowness can be just as much an
impediment as being wrong.  Furthermore, he did say some things that I
think are problematical.  He responds to a rather mild letter from
Cyril with a flame worthy of Usenet.  In it he says "To attribute also
to [the Logos], in the name of [the incarnation] the characteristics
of the flesh that has been conjoined with him ... is, my brother,
either the work of a mind which truly errs in the fashion of the
Greeks or that of a mind diseased with the insane heresy of Arius and
Apollinaris and the others.  Those who are thus carried away with the
idea of this association are bound, because of it, to make the divine
Logos have a part in being fed with milk and participate to some
degree in growh and stand in need of angelic assistance because of his
fearfulness ...  These things are taken falsely when they are put off
on the deity and they become the occasion of just condemnation for us
who perpetrate the falsehood."

It's all well and good to maintain a proper distinction between
humanity and divinity.  But the whole concept of incarnation is based
on exactly the idea that the divine Logos does in fact have "to some
degree" a part in being born, growing up, and dying.  Of course it
must be understood that there's a certain indirectness in the Logos'
participation in these things.  But there must be some sort of
identification between the divine and human, or we don't have an
incarnation at all.  Nestorius seemed to think in black and white
terms, and missed the sorts of nuances one needs to deal with this
area.

You say "I find it hard to believe that pre-Incarnation that Jesus's
human nature was in heaven."  I don't think that's required by
orthodox doctrine.  It's the divine Logos that is eternal.


--
Hi netland,

I thought that I once read about the existance of a virtual mwm like vtwm.
On the usual ftp sites (gatakeeper.dec.com, export.lcs.mit.edu) I can't find
any trace of this program. Could anybody give me a hint where to find this
program or confirm/deny the existance of this program.

Regards,


Our group recently bought a Mitsubishi P78U video printer and I could use some
help with it.  We bought this thing because it (1) has a parallel data input in
addition to the usual video signal inputs and (2) claimed to print 256 gray
level images.  However, the manual that came with it only describes how to
format the parallel data to print 1 and 4 bit/pixel images.  After some initial
problems with the parallel interface I now have this thing running from a
parallel port of an Hewlett-Packard workstation and I can print 1 and 4
bit/pixel images just fine.  I called the Mitsubishi people and asked about the
256 level claim and they said that was only available when used with the video
signal inputs.  This was not mentioned in the sales literature.  However they
did say the P78U can do 6 bit/pixel (64 level) images in parallel mode, but
they didn't have any information about how to program it to do so, and they
would call Japan, etc.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that if this thing can do 8 bit/pixel images
from the video source, it can't store 8 bits/pixel in the memory.  It's not
like memory is that expensive any more.  If anybody has any information on
getting 6 bit/pixel (or even 8 bit/pixel) images out of this thing, I would
greatly appreciate your sending it to me.

Thanks.


G'day all,

Can anybody point me at a utility which will read/convert/crop/whatnot/
display HDF image files ? I've had a look at the HDF stuff under NCSA
and it must take an award for odd directory structure, strange storage
approaches and minimalist documentation :-)

Part of the problem is that I want to look at large (5MB+) HDF files and
crop out a section. Ideally I would like a hdftoppm type of utility, from
which I can then use the PBMplus stuff quite merrily. I can convert the cropped
part into another format for viewing/animation.

Otherwise, can someone please explain how to set up the NCSA Visualisation S/W
for HDF (3.2.r5 or 3.3beta) and do the above cropping/etc. This is for
Suns with SunOS 4.1.2.

Any help GREATLY appreciated. Ta muchly !

Cheers,
	Markus

--
Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility
email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au
Australian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia.
[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]


Nothing but errors and omissions here!


--

Try MetaCard - a HyperCard-like programming environment on X.


  Yup. I agree with ya. I think Devils can beat Red Wings easily. SO I think
  all those who send in their votes should try all these diffrent teams
  before voting. I think Islanders and Quebec are much better then I had
  expected.

  COBRA


If I don't think my belief is right and everyone else's belief is wrong,
then I don't have a belief. This is simply what belief means. Where does
the authority for a belief come from? Nowhere, for a belief is itself
authoratative. If I produce authority for a belief, where will I find
authority for my belief in the legitimacy of the authority. In short,
the mind has to start somewhere. (By the way, the majority of Christians,
i.e. Catholics, believe in the authority of the Church, and derive the
authority of the Bible from its acceptance by the Church.)


      AH! But what, exactly, is "inherently abhorrent" and WHY is it so?
What you're saying is, in effect, "I think some things are repulsive,
and I know a whole bunch of other people who agree with me, so they
should be deemed absolutely immoral now and forever, period".

      Which in and of itself is nice enough; to some extent I agree with
you. But I do _not_ agree that things are 'inherently' or 'absolutely'
immoral; they are labeled 'immoral' each for its own good reason, and if
the reason can even theoretically change, then so can the label.

[...]

      No it doesn't. Humans are to some extent similar, because we all
belong to the same species; that that species has evolved is another
story altogether. To a certain extent evolution can even lend credence
to moral absolutism (of a flavour).

[...]

      You're saying morality is what'll keep society alive and kicking.
It is, I think, up to a point; but societies are not all alike, and
neither are their moralities.

      Similar != identical.

      No, it's falsifiable through finding someoe who was "created
different", whatever that might be in the "real" world.


Motorola has a good app note on a 10 band equalizer using a 56000 DSP. It
could be easily ported to an Ariel board, or even a Turtle Beach 56K
development system.


  >[I'm sort of mystified about how a Christian might respond to this.]

  I'll start with a parable.

  A Christian woman hires a carpenter to build her a birdhouse.  When he comes
over, they begin talking about religion.  "So you believe that you understand
God?" he asks.  "Yes, I do," she replies.  "Then have him build you the
birdhouse."


  I have found that this isn't a very effective argument.  Most atheists are
perfectly willing to acknowledge the existence and ministry of Jesus--but are
quite capable of rationalizing the miracles and the resurrection into
misunderstandings, hoaxes, or simple fabrications.  They can always make an
analogy with the _Iliad_, a book that tells the story of the historical Trojan
War, but also talks about gods and goddesses and their conversations.
  I don't think it's possible to convince atheists of the validity of
Christianity through argument.  We have to help foster faith and an
understanding of God.  I could be wrong--are there any former atheists here who
were led to Christianity by argument?


Just out of curiosity, what happened to the weekly AL and NL Game
Score Reports?  I used to enjoy reading them throughout the summer
for the last two years.

Inquisitively yours,

Joel


But he said,
	Yea rather,
	blessed are they
	that hear the word of God,
	and keep it.


There is something going on here.  It seems that once a month, the VW
group must have get a specific detailed question about Hondas.  I
would like to ask that next month we get one about Hyundai instead of
Honda.  Thank you.


Well, it's been a while since this was discussed so i take the liberty of
reprinting (without permission, so sue me) Eric Haines reprint of the very
interesting discussion of this topic...

                /Jonas

                         O /         \ O
------------------------- X snip snip X ------------------------------
                         O \         / O

"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat one day.
Give a man a fishing rod, and he'll laze around fishing and never do anything."

With that in mind, I reprint (without permission, so sue me) relevant
information posted some years ago on this very problem.  Note the early use of
PostScript technology, predating many of this year's papers listed in the
April 1st SIGGRAPH Program Announcement posted here a few days ago.

-- Eric

Intersection Between a Line and a Polygon (UNDECIDABLE??),
	by Dave Baraff, Tom Duff

	From: deb@charisma.graphics.cornell.edu
	Newsgroups: comp.graphics
	Keywords: P, NP, Jordan curve separation, Ursyhon Metrization Theorem
	Organization: Program of Computer Graphics

I think that this is a very difficult problem.  To start with, lines and
polygons are semi-algebraic sets which both contain uncountable number of
points.  Here are a few off-the-cuff ideas.

First, we need to check if the line and the polygon are separated.  Now, the
Jordan curve separation theorem says that the polygon divides the plane into
exactly two open (and thus non-compact) regions.  Thus, the line lies
completely inside the polygon, the line lies completely outside the polygon,
or possibly (but this will rarely happen) the line intersects the polyon.

Now, the phrasing of this question says "if a line intersects a polygon", so
this is a decision problem.  One possibility (the decision model approach) is
to reduce the question to some other (well known) problem Q, and then try to
solve Q.  An answer to Q gives an answer to the original decision problem.

In recent years, many geometric problems have been successfully modeled in a
new language called PostScript.  (See "PostScript Language", by Adobe Systems
Incorporated, ISBN # 0-201-10179-3, co. 1985).

So, given a line L and a polygon P, we can write a PostScript program that
draws the line L and the polygon P, and then "outputs" the answer.  By
"output", we mean the program executes a command called "showpage", which
actually prints a page of paper containing the line and the polygon.  A quick
examination of the paper provides an answer to the reduced problem Q, and thus
the original problem.

There are two small problems with this approach.

	(1) There is an infinite number of ways to encode L and P into the
	reduced problem Q.  So, we will be forced to invoke the Axiom of
	Choice (or equivalently, Zorn's Lemma).  But the use of the Axiom of
	Choice is not regarded in a very serious light these days.

	(2) More importantly, the question arises as to whether or not the
	PostScript program Q will actually output a piece of paper; or in
	other words, will it halt?

	Now, PostScript is expressive enough to encode everything that a
	Turing Machine might do; thus the halting problem (for PostScript) is
	undecidable.  It is quite possible that the original problem will turn
	out to be undecidable.

I won't even begin to go into other difficulties, such as aliasing, finite
precision and running out of ink, paper or both.

A couple of references might be:

1. Principia Mathematica.  Newton, I.  Cambridge University Press, Cambridge,
   England.  (Sorry, I don't have an ISBN# for this).

2. An Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation.  Hopcroft, J
   and Ulman, J.

3. The C Programming Language. Kernighan, B and Ritchie, D.

4. A Tale of Two Cities. Dickens, C.

--------

From: td@alice.UUCP (Tom Duff)
Summary: Overkill.
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ

The situation is not nearly as bleak as Baraff suggests (he should know
better, he's hung around The Labs for long enough).  By the well known
Dobbin-Dullman reduction (see J. Dullman & D. Dobbin, J. Comp. Obfusc.
37,ii:  pp. 33-947, lemma 17(a)) line-polygon intersection can be reduced to
Hamiltonian Circuit, without(!) the use of Grobner bases, so LPI (to coin an
acronym) is probably only NP-complete.  Besides, Turing-completeness will no
longer be a problem once our Cray-3 is delivered, since it will be able to
complete an infinite loop in 4 milliseconds (with scatter-gather.)

--------

From: deb@svax.cs.cornell.edu (David Baraff)

Well, sure its no worse than NP-complete, but that's ONLY if you restrict
yourself to the case where the line satisfies a Lipschitz condition on its
second derivative.  (I think there's an '89 SIGGRAPH paper from Caltech that
deals with this).

--


Well, actually, most of ours is based on what really happened and yours is
based on some fantasy of how it happened. But that's OK, I understand you
have a hockey background. Stats like "plus/minus" make RBI look good.

OK, how about a straigh answer, then. Here's a very simele question to which
I'm sure a fair number of us are very interesed in the answer to. Please
answer yes or no, Roger:
 Can a pitcher cause the offensive players on his team to score more runs?
AL only, please.

For anyone else following along, it is a well-known and demonstrable fact
that a team's win-loss record is closely related to the number of runs the
team scores and the number the team allows. It's not a definite,
hard-and-fast function, but there is definitely a correlation. In fact, as a
rule of thumb, if teams A and B both score X runs and team A allows Y runs,
for every 10 runs fewer than Y that team B allows, it will win another game.
So, for instance, if we look at the 1991 Toronto Blue Jays, we find that
they scored 780 runs and allowed 682, of which Morris allowed 114. All other
things being equal, if Frank Viola, with his 3.44 ERA had replaced Jack
Morris for the 240.2 innings Morris threw (plausible, since Viola threw 238
for Boston), the "Red Jays" would have allowed about 15 fewer runs, or
enough for 1-2 more wins. Now, that doesn't take into account that Viola
pitched half his innings in Fenway, which is a harder park to pitch in
(particularly for a lefthander) than Skydome. So, um, Roger. Unless you
really do believe that a pitcher can somehow affect the number of runs
his team scores, could you enlighten us to the fallacy in this
analysis? Clearly, it would be foolhardy to claim that Viola would
necessarily have put up a 3.44 if he had been on the Jay last year, but
that is not the claim. We look at what the actual performances were and
evaluate Viola's as better than Morris' in the sense that "had Morris
performed as Viola did, his team would have been better off."

This is true, but not so open that your brain falls out.

 Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com


And the reason that the Soviet Union couldn't achieve the ideal of pure
communism was the hostility of surrounding capitalist nations...Uh huh.
Somehow, this all sounds familiar.  Once again, utopian dreams are
confronted by the real world...


I just recently bought a 4 MB ram card for my original mac portable
(backlit) and have since had some bizarre crashes. It happens when I put
the machine to sleep and wake the machine up. sometimes it will just
freeze the cursor and lock the machine up forcing me to push the reset
switch. Other times it will give me the usual bomb box with the error
message of "Co processor not installed".

I know one solution is NOT to put the machine to sleep, but does anyone
have any ideas on what could be causing this or better yet what might fix
it? The memory card is Psuedostatic ram and goes into the PDS Slot. That
probably figures into the problem. the manufacturer is King Memory (Not
kingston) from irvine, CA. They say the problem is in my machine.

Any Ideas? -- Gene Wright.


Whether there is a "why" or not we have to find it. This is Pascal's(?) wager.
If there is no why and we spend our lives searching, then we have merely
wasted our lives, which were meaningless anyway. If there is a why and we
don't search for it, then we have wasted our potentially meaningful lives.
Suppose the universe is 5 billion years old, and suppose it lasts another
5 billion years. Suppose I live to be 100. That is nothing, that is so small
that it is scary. So by searching for the "why" along with my friends here
on earth if nothing else we aren't so scared.

What if you woke up at a party, with no memory, and everyone was discussing
who the host might be? There might not be a host, you say. I say let's go
find him, the party's going to be over sometime, maybe he'll let us stay.

Because we recognize our own mortality we have to find the "why".

This is a good point. But more of a good point for studying religion
than ignoring it. Some Christians disagree with me, but it is worthwhile
to study different religions and philosophies and glean the truth from
them. To quote (of course out of context) "Test everything and keep what is
true."


Who compared Quayle to Gore?  Mark said he had never heard of any incident
in which the thrower of the ceremonial ball had been booed before.  I mentioned
another incident.  (And if the media had a liberal bias, I'm sure he would
have heard of the Quayle incident.)

If I was to compare Quayle to anyone, it most likely would be Elmer Fudd.


Dyer, you're rude. Medicine is not a totallly scientific endevour. It's
often practiced in a disorganized manner. Most early treatment of
non-life threatening illness is done on a guess, hazarded after anecdotal
evidence given by the patient. It's an educated guess, by a trained person,
but it's still no more than a guess.
It's cheaper and simpler to medicate first and only deal further with those
people who don't respond.

There are diseases that haven't been described yet and the root cause of many
diseases now described aren't known. (Read a book on gastroenterology
sometime if you want to see a lot of them.) After scientific methods have
run out then it's the patient's freedom of choice to try any experimental
method they choose. And it's well recognized by many doctors that medicine
doesn't have all the answers.

This person said that they had relief by taking the medicine. Maybe it's a
miracle cure, maybe it's valid. How do you know?

You might argue with the reasoning, the conclusions. But your disparaging
attack is unwarranted. Why don't you present an convincing argument for you
r beliefs, instead of wasting our time in an ad hominem attack.


740 Turbo in UK was good for 124mph. Useful for blowing away VW Beetles, though I
believe the Beetle corners better.

I can say without any doubt that I have never been blown away by any Volvo, ever.
I've been blocked into a few car parks though by shit-head Volvo owners who 'only thought they'd be a few minutes'. This does not happen with the owners of any other makes of car.


Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the
_Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television
station, KTVB Channel 7.

Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 5.

Monday, April 19, 1993 was the fifth day of the trial.

Synopsis: Government informant Kenneth Fadeley testified that
Randy Weaver sold him two shotguns in violation of the National
Firearms Act of 1934.  U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge
asks jurors not to hear accounts of the Waco fire because
of possible influences on the Weaver/Harris case.

The testimony of FBI Special Agent Greg Rampton apparently
ended without further incident, as it was mentioned neither
by KTVB nor the _Idaho Statesman_.

The day was highlighted by the testimony of Kenneth Fadeley,
who had been posing as an outlaw biker and illegal guns person
named Gus Magiosono.  Fadeley testified that he was acting as
an informant for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
in his dealings with Randy Weaver.

Fadeley began by stating that he had met Weaver in 1987 at an
Aryan Nations summer conference in Hayden Lake, Idaho.  The two
then met again October 11, 1989 (note the huge separation in
time) at a restaurant in Sandpoint, Idaho, to begin a weapons
transaction.  He stated that Weaver had said, "He felt like he
(Weaver) was being prepared to do something dangerous for the
White cause."

The two later met October 24, 1989 behind the restaurant and
later went to a city park to make the sale.  During this second
meeting, Fadeley was wearing a small recording device to
tape the conversation.  Weaver allegedly showed him an H&R 12-
gauge shotgun with a 13-inch barrel and an overall length of
19.25 inches.  He additionally showed a Remington 12-gauge
shotgun with a 12.75-inch barrel and an overall length of
24.5 inches (NFA requires minimums of 18 inches for barrel
length and an overall length of 26 inches).  On tape, Weaver
is reported to have said that he could perform better work once
his machine shop is set up.  The two then discuss the possibility
of future sales.  Fadeley then counts out three hundred dollars
for the two guns and promises the balance of one-hundred fifty
dollars when they next meet.  (Note that the ATF could have
simply arrested him here.  Why did they wait until January 1991 -
over a year later - to arrest him?  This is not explained).

The next meeting took place on Nov 30, 1989.  Fadeley stated that
his "source" had only come up with one hundred dollars instead
of the one-hundred fifty he'd promised.  At this point, Weaver
suspected he was dealing with an informant, "I had a guy in
Spokane tell me you were bad."  Fadeley managed to convince
Weaver otherwise.

The _Idaho Statesman_ states explicitly that three tapes were
made of conversations with Randy Weaver.  Thus, each of these
meetings must have been recorded.  However, the _Statesman_ also
reported that a tape of a telephone conversation involving Vicki
Weaver (Randy Weaver's wife) was played to the court.  There must
have also been phone taps.

These tapes were played to the court via both headphones and
loudspeakers under the objections of Gerry Spence, Weaver's
attorney.  Spence said to a KTVB reporter that he wanted to
make sure that the government proved its case, "...if it has a
case at all..." according to the rules.

Randy Weaver tore off his headphones and wept when he heard his
wife's voice on the tape.

U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge asked jurors not to hear
accounts of the Waco fire because of possible influences on the
Weaver/Harris case.  Exactly how such information could affect
this trial is not explained.

Other notes: Sunday evening there was a report on KTVB concerning
Kevin Harris.  Unnamed agents within the FBI admit that they are
surprised that Kevin Harris is still alive.  First, they were
surprised that he survived the initial gunshot wound(s) sustained
in the initial firefight at the Y-junction.  Later, when Randy
Weaver was struck by sniper fire the sniper had reported that
Harris had been struck (not Weaver).  Finally, there was a report
that the FBI agent who killed Vicki Weaver believed he was aiming
at Kevin Harris instead.  (This is what was reported).  Critics
are charging that the FBI was blatantly trying to eliminate the
only non-government witness to the deaths of Samuel Weaver and
Deputy Marshal William Degan.  Some local people believe that
Harris's survival is simply due to divine intervention.


Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their
fingers.  Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his
future.  Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best
signing.  And don't tell me Boston will win this year.  They won't
even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.


I assume you are posting to encourage comments - how much history has
Tony Campello read?  Not much it seems.

It is good to hear that there are a few reasonable Christians about.
If only those christian "scientists" would take note.

(In Australia there is a very strong movement, a bunch of christian
scientists who believe that every single event in the bible is exactly
true, and that there is a rational explanation for it all that can be justified
by using the laws of physics.  For example, there are a few chaps who are
trying to prove that the age of the universe is 6000 years old, and that the
error in conventional calculations is the result of the fact that the speed
light has been rapidly decaying over the years, and this has not been
accounted for. :-] )

Or (of course), that he never existed, and the bible was a story, and was never
intended to become a manifesto for a billion people.  Did Tony follow that one
up?

Millions of people have "died for a lie".  This  point is difficult to
substantiate since it is not well defined (a great many religious arguments
work in that way), but consider the many Aztec warriors who sacrificed
themselves to their gods in the belief that this act would bring them victory
of the Spanish invaders.  The list is endless.  The Aztecs lost, BTW.

That is perfectly reasonable, but it is not grounds for me (or anyone)
to become a christian.  More to the point, it does not add weight to
the claim that Jesus was the "real thing".

Have you ever seen a documentary about the rise of Nazi Germany?  More to the
point, did Tony mention this?  One could hardly call Werner Heisenberg and his
many colleagues  fools, or  illogical men, their support of Hitler was based
(I presume) upon an emotional issue rather than a rational agreement with
his principles.  Obviously my argument is invalid if Tony thought that Hitler
was sane....

Hmmm.... I don't think his arguments warrant the use of a "Therefore..."

This is (unfortunately) what alot of religious discussions I have had with
people result in - quoting the bible.  The only reasonable way I think
people can look at the bible is to treat the stories as some sort of
metaphorical representation of the messages that the authors were trying to
present.  If someone tries to interpret parts of the bible literally, he or
she will end up in all sorts of shit.

Tony's argument would be perfectly reasonable for people who believe
the events described in the bible took place, but to convince someone,
who thinks the bible is total fiction, that Jesus is real by quoting the
book is totally pointless.  For example, in mathematics you cannot say "a is
equal to b because a is equal to b".

That would possibly explain why there have so many people being killed
in religious wars, and why there are hundreds of different versions all
claiming to be correct.

It

I think if you posted this part to alt.religion you would get more flames
than here :-).  I have never really understood why the emotional sentiments
of a stranger should be of interest to other people.

Someone famous said that there two evils in life, polititians and churchs, one
rules by fear of the living, the other by fear of the dead.  If I am pressed I
could probably find the exact quotation.


You are right but PLEASE DON'T DO THIS.  It makes my brain hurt.
USPosition and USSize should ONLY be set if the USER specified the
position and size.

You say: "Tom, don't blow a gasket, what's the harm?"

Some window managers do very different things (besides positioning the window)
when they see USPosition rather than PPosition.


What, did you leave the room each of the 100 or so times they said that
there WERE NO OTHER NIGHT BASEBALL GAMES? Every break they took back at
the studio mentioned it, followed by 'so...we're gonna show you hockey
instead.' My wife and I are hoping for rain at every baseball game they
have a feed for tommorrow night...

Point is, be glad they showed hockey, but if baseball was available
anywhere else you can bet you would've watched baseball last night.


I'm looking for a Singer Featherweight 221 sewing machine (old, black
sewing machine in black case).

Please contact:


I've changed the battery in the thing (shortly after the problem first
happened) and I've noticed an inordinate number of Bus errors lately...


According to what I have read on Biblical idioms, speaking "in X's
name" is a standard Aramaic/Hebrew legal idiom for what we today
would call Power of Attorney.  A person from Jesus' culture authorized
to conduct business "in John's name" had full authority over John's
financial affairs, but was held under a solemn fiduciary obligation to
work only for John's benefit and consonant with John's wishes.  It was
not required for the steward to preface each business transaction with
"in John's name"; it was sufficient to have valid power of attorney
and be operating in good faith. (Note the overlap here between legal
and religious definitions of "faith".)

With this cultural background, praying "in Jesus' name" does not
mandate a particular verbal formula; rather it requires that the
petitioner be operating faithfully and consciously within an analogous
"fiduciary" relationship with Jesus and for the purposes of His
Kingdom.  The message of "praying in Jesus' name" is thus closely
aligned with the parable of the talents and other passages about God's
delegation of Kingdom business to his stewards, both resources and
responsibilities.  This idea of praying "in Jesus' name" is not only
present but prominent in the Lord's Prayer, although the verbal
forumula is absent.

The act of praying the words "In Jesus' Name" may be beneficial if
they cause us to clarify the relationship of our requests to the
advancement of God's Kingdom.  For that reason, I'm not quite ready
to say that the praying the formula is without meaning.

Prayers to God for other purposes (desperation, anger, thanksgiving,
etc.) don't seem to be in this category at all, whether uttered by
Christian or non-Christian, whether B.C. or A.D. (that's B.C.E. or
C.E. for you P.C. :-).  I don't see anything in Christ's words to
contradict the idea that God deals with all prayers according to His
omniscience and grace.

Van Kelly
vek@research.att.com


In <1r1om5$c5m@slab.mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)

Then it is a good thing we already have this:

The csspub mailing list: csspab@mail-gw.ncsl.nist.gov, and address on
the clipper mailing list, seems to contain basically the members of
the NIST security board.

In addition to the names already posted, their true names are as
follows:

burrows@ecf = James Burrows a director of NIST's National Computer
Systems Laboratory

mcnulty@ecf = F. Lynn McNulty an associate director for computer
security at the National Institute of Standards and Technology's
Computer Systems Laboratory

Gangemi@dockmaster.ncsc.mil = Gaetano Gangemi is director of the
Security Basics by Deborah Russell and G. T.  Gangemi, Sr. -1991,
O'Reilly and Associates

slambert@cgin.cto.citicorp.com = Sandra Lambert is vice-president of
information security at Citibank, N.A.

lipner@mitre.org = Lipner is Mitre Corp.'s director of information
systems.

gallagher@dockmaster.ncsc.mil = Patrick Gallagher, director of the
National Security Agency's National Computer Security Center and a
security board member

walker@tis.com = Stephen Walker a computer security expert and
president of Trusted Information Systems, Inc. in Glenwood, Md

willis@rand.org = Willis H.  Ware a the Rand Corp.  executive who
chairs the security board.

whitehurst@vnet.ibm.com = William Whitehurst is a security board
member and director of IBM Corp.'s data security programs.

--
Harry Shapiro  				      habs@panix.com
List Administrator of the Extropy Institute Mailing List
Private Communication for the Extropian Community since 1991


Splitfires work mainly by providing a more-or-less unshrouded spark to the
combustion chamber. If an engine's cylinder head design can benefit from this,
then the splitfires will yield a slight performance increase, most noticeably
in lower rpm range torque. Splitfires didn't do diddly-squat for my 1992 GMC
pickup (4.3l V6) but do give a noticeable performance boost in my 1991 Harley
Sportster 1200 and my best friend's 1986 Sportster 883. Folks I know who've
tried them in 1340 Evo motors can't tell any performance boost over plain
plugs (which is interesting since the XLH and big twin EVO combustion chambers
are pretty much the same shape, just different sizes). Two of my friends who
have shovelhead Harleys swear by the splitfires but if I had a shovelhead,
I'd dual-plug it instead since they respond well enough to dual plugs to make
the machine work and extra ignition system worth the expense (plus they look
really cool with a spark plug on each side of each head)


Most of the key issues in the 284 line post to which I am following up are
dealt with in the following post I made on talk.abortion yesterday,
modified to correct the next to last paragraph.

Message-ID: <nyikos.734890344@milo.math.scarolina.edu>

References: <nyikos.734360987@milo.math.scarolina.edu> <nyikos.734640769@milo.math.scarolina.edu> <1993Apr13.122356.3612@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>

Dean did not.  He called them "the Great Commission" but this is NOT
descriptive of Jesus's words in Matt. 10:15.

Matt. 10:14, Jerusalem Bible translation:

	"And if anyone does not welcome you or listen to what you have
	to say, as you walk out of the house or town shake the dust
	from your feet."

Matt. 10:15:

 	"I tell you solemnly, on the day of Judgment it will not
 	go as hard with the land of Sodom and Gomorrah as with
 	that town."

"> The above is a good description of Kaflowitz, who keeps harping on
 > shaking the dust off the feet but ignoring what Christ said next."
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                                ^^^^

The highlighted words refer to Matt 10:14 and 10:15 respectively.

And Dean countered:

"Actually, this comment of your's is a perfect example of what an
intellectually dishonest little sparrowfart you are, since I
specifically acknowledged the Great Commission and the entreaty
to spread the word.  In fact, it is the combination of the two
statements I was addressing, and not just the one, and for you to
characterize that as "ignoring" the instruction to spread the
word is a good example of what a dishonest little fellow you are."

Of course, Matt 10:15 [quoted above] makes no mention of "instruction
to spread the word."

All these quotes btw are from:

Message-ID: <1993Apr13.121624.3400@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>

And I claim it correctly, because my question went:

"Do you, too, measure
the goodness of a post by its entertainment value, and care not
a whit for such mundane things as truth and falsehood?"

and the closest Dean came to an answer was:

"Peter, Peter, Peter.  You're just so stupid, pretentious, dull,
and generally unworthy of the value you place on yourself that
the sport is all there is."

Of course, this does NOT answer my question, which has to do with posts
in GENERAL and not my posts in particular.  Surely even Dean knows this,
yet he brazenly asserts otherwise, reinforcing his claim with an insult:

"So I now restore the answer to your question
that you deleted.  If you're still unable to figure it out, ask
a nice kid at the local junior high to help you.  It really
doesn't take much sophistication to understand."

On top of which, I doubt that the "answer" is at all representative
of Dean's true frame of mind.  The insults you have seen quoted thus
far are but a small sample of the stream that oozes out of Dean's
mind throughout the 284-line post from which these quotes were taken.
One wonders whether Dean's mind is so warped as to find sport in all
this.

He even dredges up a falsified account of
events that transpired earlier on another thread:

"You made an ass of yourself by claiming that it
				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
was in the tradition of Lent to make public announcements of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the "sins" of other individuals."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

False.  I said it was the tradition to recall and atone for one's sins.
That I made public announcements of the "sins" of others
--"sins", BTW, that were a matter of public record, documented in
the posts of others-- is a different matter.

Many of the individuals involved are so nearly amoral that
they do not see as sins what morally upright people see as sins, so
I pointed some of them out.  And I expressly set up a whole thread,
YOUR TURN, to let people point out MY sins to me.

Dean again:

"You made an ass of yourself
by saying that my statement of the tradition of tzedukkah was
somehow an attempt to "paint Jews as plaster saints," thereby
revealing your inability to understand the discussion as well
as showing your dislike for people saying positive things
about Jews, and now you show your intellectual dishonesty by
repeatedly ignoring the simple argument being made, and then
claiming I am ignoring the very argument I acknowledge."

Actually, what happened was that Dean made it seem like ANY Jew
who gave alms or did other acts of charity in public was a hypocrite
according to Jewish customs.  In doing so, he was caricaturing
Jewish customs as being almost impossibly demanding, as well as
implicitly slandering all Jews who make public their acts of charity.

I went very easily on Dean for this, giving him the benefit of
the doubt in a post following my initial crack about "plaster saints",
suggesting that he had been merely careless in his wording.

In an astonishing act of ingratitude, Dean now serves up an incredibly
distorted picture of what took place between us, and using it as
the basis of one insult after another.


The XView version 3 source distribution included in the contrib section
of X11R5 included the source to the textedit program.  I'd like to take
the sources and modify them to add support for a ToolTalk-like message
server, and maybe for ToolTalk while I'm at it, since the Sun-supplied
textedit binary doesn't seem to speak tooltalk.

However, the sources in the R5 contrib area seem to be for an older
version of textedit than the version shipped with OpenWindows 3.  For
example, the OWN 3.0 textedit includes drag and drop support and a
dropsite in the main control area, while the source in contrib/xview
knows nothing about drag and drop.

The textedit.c included in the xview sources says it's version 15.50,

        textedit.c 2.62 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro
        dragdrop.c 1.26 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro
        tooltalk.c 2.16 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro
        ds_relname.c    1.7 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro

So, does anyone know if the 9/14/91 sources to textedit are available?
I'd really like to work from the latest source if possible.

Please reply by email, and I'll post a summary if there's enough
interest.


Hi, netters

I am looking for source code that can reads the ascii file
or bitmap file and produced the thinned image.
For example, to preprocess the character image I want to
apply thinning algorithm.


	I have a similar configuration: Colorado 250mb on 66 DX/2 tower.

	You got suckered in the same way I did.  Silly me, believing
	that the "250" logo on the front meant actual carrying capacity.
	The people who do this sort of thing for a living call it
	"marketing."  Lawyers who prosecute it call it "fraud."
	Perhaps we can have a bunch of other duped buyers march on
	their corporate headquarters.

	This is a bit long.  My system takes about 45 minutes to do
	the same thing.  Usually 4.5 hours, particularly if the tape
	is grinding away the whole time means that your block size for
	the write is too small.  Is there any way to change the block
	size or write buffer size so it's bigger?

	This is because the files are opened by DOS.  The files in the
	TAPE directory are likely the executable file or the configuration
	file for the tape system.  I would recommend running the backup
	from DOS so it will make a complete backup of the TAPE directory.

	The 250mb cartridges won't do you any good since the drive
	won't write 250mb of physical data on the tape.


Please do...and let us know specifics.  (lest I'm the only one on this).

Mickey


If you force me to do something, am I morally responsible for it?

Well, make up your mind.    Is it to be "instinctive not to murder"
or not?

It's not even correct.    Animals of the same species do kill
one another.

Sigh.   I wonder how many times we have been round this loop.

I think that instinctive bahaviour has no moral significance.
I am quite prepared to believe that higher animals, such as
primates, have the beginnings of a moral sense, since they seem
to exhibit self-awareness.

So what?     Are you trying to say that some killing in animals
has a moral significance and some does not?   Is this your
natural morality>

Are you blind?   What do you think that this sentence means?

	"There must be the possibility that the organism - it's not
	just people we are talking about - can consider alternatives."

What would that imply?

I find the fact that they do to be significant.


You assume this because you believe in a designing creator,
and you observe our ability to procreate...

.... But then you observe our ability to modify fertility
through intelligence & experiment, and draw no similar conclusions
about God designing us for scientific inquiry & the use of the
technology that it produces.  How is it that one ability is "obviously
from God", and the other not?

I want to know the truth, and hold the Truth as the most
basic of all ethical values, because correct moral judgement
relies on knowing the truth, not vice versa. Moralities that
assert that assent to a belief is a moral choice, and not
compelled by evidence inevitably cut off the limb they sit upon.
Falsification of evidence, conscious and unconscious, follows
corrupting both the intellect and the heart.

If there is a God, he has nothing to fear from truth.
As to imaginary gods and there followers: Be afraid. Be very
afraid.


April 24th is approaching, and Armenians around the world
are getting ready to remember the massacres of their family members
by the Turkish government between 1915 and 1920.
    At least 1.5 Million Armenians perished during that period,
and it is important to note that those who deny that this event
ever took place, either supported the policy of 1915 to exterminate
the Armenians, or, as we have painfully witnessed in Azerbaijan,
would like to see it happen again...
    Thank you for taking the time to read this post.


------------- cut here -----------------
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

              +------------------------------------------------+
              !                                                !
              !              Health Info-Com Network           !
              !                Medical Newsletter              !
              +------------------------------------------------+
                         Editor: David Dodell, D.M.D.
    10250 North 92nd Street, Suite 210, Scottsdale, Arizona 85258-4599 USA
                          Telephone +1 (602) 860-1121
                              FAX +1 (602) 451-1165

Compilation Copyright 1993 by David Dodell,  D.M.D.  All  rights  Reserved.
License  is  hereby  granted  to republish on electronic media for which no
fees are charged,  so long as the text of this copyright notice and license
are attached intact to any and all republished portion or portions.

The Health Info-Com Network Newsletter is  distributed  biweekly.  Articles
on  a medical nature are welcomed.  If you have an article,  please contact
the editor for information on how to submit it.  If you are  interested  in
joining the automated distribution system, please contact the editor.

E-Mail Address:
                                    Editor:
                          Internet: david@stat.com
                              FidoNet = 1:114/15
                           Bitnet = ATW1H@ASUACAD
LISTSERV = MEDNEWS@ASUACAD.BITNET (or internet: mednews@asuvm.inre.asu.edu)
                         anonymous ftp = vm1.nodak.edu
               Notification List = hicn-notify-request@stat.com
                 FAX Delivery = Contact Editor for information

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

                       T A B L E   O F   C O N T E N T S

1.  Comments & News from the Editor
     OCR / Scanner News ...................................................  1

2.  Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR
     [16 April 1993] Emerging Infectious Diseases .........................  3
     Outbreak of E. coli Infections from Hamburgers .......................  5
     Use of Smokeless Tobacoo Among Adults ................................ 10
     Gonorrhea ............................................................ 14
     Impact of Adult Safety-Belt Use on Children less than 11 years Age ... 17
     Publication of CDC Surveillance Summaries ............................ 21

3.  Clinical Research News
     High Tech Assisted Reproductive Technologies ......................... 24

4.  Articles
     Low Levels Airborne Particles Linked to Serious Asthma Attacks ....... 29
     NIH Consensus Development Conference on Melanoma ..................... 31
     National Cancer Insitute Designated Cancer Centers ................... 32

5.  General Announcments
     UCI Medical Education Software Repository ............................ 40

6.  AIDS News Summaries
     AIDS Daily Summary April 12 to April 15, 1993 ........................ 41

7.  AIDS/HIV Articles
     First HIV Vaccine Trial Begins in HIV-Infected Children .............. 47
     New Evidence that the HIV Can Cause Disease Independently ............ 50
     Clinical Consultation Telephone Service for AIDS ..................... 52

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                            Page    i
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
                        Comments & News from the Editor
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I would like to continue to thank everyone who has sent in a donation for the
Mednews OCR/Scanner Fund.  We have reached our goal!  A Hewlett Packard
Scanjet IIp was purchased this week.

Thank you to the following individuals whose contributions I just received:

John Sorenson
Carol Sigelman
Carla Moore
Barbara Moose
Judith Schrier

Again, thank you to all who gave!

I have been using Wordscan Plus for the past couple of weeks and would like to
review the product.  Wordscan Plus is a product of Calera Recognition Systems.
It runs under Windows 3.1 and supports that Accufont Technology of the Hewlett
Packard Scanners.

When initially bringing up the software, it lets you select several options;
(1) text / graphics (2) input source ie scanner, fax file, disk file (3)
automatic versus manual decomposition of the scanned image.

I like manual decomposition since the software then lets me select which
parts of the document I would like scanned, and in what order.

Once an image is scanned, you can bring up the Pop-Up image verification.  The
software gives you two "errors" at this point.  Blue which are words that were
converted reliability, but do not match anything in the built-in dictionary.
Yellow shade, which are words that Wordscan Plus doesn't think it converted
correctly at all.  I have found that the software should give itself more
credit.  It is usually correct, instead of wrong.  If a word is shaded blue,
you can add it to your personal dictionary.  The only problem is the personal
dictionary will only handle about 200 words.  I find this to be very limited,
considering how many medical terms are not in a normal dictionary.

After a document is converted, you can save it in a multitude of word
processor formats.  Also any images that were captured can be stored in a
seperate TIFF or PCX file format.

I was extremely impressed on the percent accuracy for fax files.  I use

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  1
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

an Intel Satisfaxtion card, which stores incoming faxs in a PCX/DCX format.
While most of my faxes were received in "standard" mode (200x100 dpi), the
accuracy of Wordscan Plus was excellent.

Overall, a very impressive product.  The only fault I could find is the
limitations of the size of the user dictionary.  200 specialized words is just
too small.

If anyone has any specific questions, please do not hesitate to send me email.

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  2
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
               Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

                         Emerging Infectious Diseases
                         ============================
                   SOURCE: MMWR 42(14)   DATE: Apr 16, 1993

                                 Introduction

     Despite predictions earlier this century that infectious diseases would
soon be eliminated as a public health problem (1), infectious diseases remain
the major cause of death worldwide and a leading cause of illness and death in
the United States. Since the early 1970s, the U.S. public health system has
been challenged by a myriad of newly identified pathogens and syndromes (e.g.,
Escherichia coli O157:H7, hepatitis C virus, human immunodeficiency virus,
Legionnaires disease, Lyme disease, and toxic shock syndrome). The incidences
of many diseases widely presumed to be under control, such as cholera,
malaria, and tuberculosis (TB), have increased in many areas. Furthermore,
control and prevention of infectious diseases are undermined by drug
resistance in conditions such as gonorrhea, malaria, pneumococcal disease,
salmonellosis, shigellosis, TB, and staphylococcal infections (2). Emerging
infections place a disproportionate burden on immunocompromised persons, those
in institutional settings (e.g., hospitals and child day care centers), and
minority and underserved populations. The substantial economic burden of
emerging infections on the U.S. health-care system could be reduced by more
effective surveillance systems and targeted control and prevention programs
(3).
     This issue of MMWR introduces a new series, "Emerging Infectious
Diseases." Future articles will address these diseases, as well as
surveillance, control, and prevention efforts by health-care providers and
public health officials. This first article updates the ongoing investigation
of an outbreak of E. coli O157:H7 in the western United States (4).

References

1. Burnet M. Natural history of infectious disease. Cambridge, England:
Cambridge University Press, 1963.

2. Kunin CM. Resistance to antimicrobial drugs -- a worldwide calamity. Ann
Intern Med 1993;118:557-61.

3. Lederberg J, Shope RE, Oaks SC Jr, eds. Emerging infections: microbial
threats to health in the United States. Washington, DC: National Academy
Press, 1992.

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  3
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

4. CDC. Preliminary report: foodborne outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7
infections from hamburgers --western United States, 1993. MMWR 1993;42:85-6.

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  4
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

            Update: Multistate Outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7
             Infections from Hamburgers -- Western United States,
                                   1992-1993
            =======================================================
                   SOURCE: MMWR 42(14)   DATE: Apr 16, 1993

     From November 15, 1992, through February 28, 1993, more than 500
laboratory-confirmed infections with E. coli O157:H7 and four associated
deaths occurred in four states -- Washington, Idaho, California, and Nevada.
This report summarizes the findings from an ongoing investigation (1) that
identified a multistate outbreak resulting from consumption of hamburgers from
one restaurant chain. Washington
     On January 13, 1993, a physician reported to the Washington Department of
Health a cluster of children with hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS) and an
increase in emergency room visits for bloody diarrhea. During January 16-17, a
case-control study comparing 16 of the first cases of bloody diarrhea or
postdiarrheal HUS identified with age- and neighborhood-matched controls
implicated eating at chain A restaurants during the week before symptom onset
(matched odds ratio OR=undefined; lower confidence limit=3.5). On January
18, a multistate recall of unused hamburger patties from chain A restaurants
was initiated.
     As a result of publicity and case-finding efforts, during January-
February 1993, 602 patients with bloody diarrhea or HUS were reported to the
state health department. A total of 477 persons had illnesses meeting the case
definition of culture-confirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection or postdiarrheal HUS
(Figure 1). Of the 477 persons, 52 (11%) had close contact with a person with
confirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection during the week preceding onset of
symptoms. Of the remaining 425 persons, 372 (88%) reported eating in a chain A
restaurant during the 9 days preceding onset of symptoms. Of the 338 patients
who recalled what they ate in a chain A restaurant, 312 (92%) reported eating
a regular-sized hamburger patty. Onsets of illness peaked from January 17
through January 20. Of the 477 casepatients, 144 (30%) were hospitalized; 30
developed HUS, and three died. The median age of patients was 7.5 years
(range: 0-74 years). Idaho
     Following the outbreak report from Washington, the Division of Health,
Idaho Department of Health and Welfare, identified 14 persons with culture-
confirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection, with illness onset dates from December
11, 1992, through February 16, 1993 (Figure 2A). Four persons were
hospitalized; one developed HUS. During the week preceding illness onset, 13
(93%) had eaten at a chain A restaurant. California
     In late December, the San Diego County Department of Health Services was
notified of a child with E. coli O157:H7 infection who subsequently died.
Active surveillance and record review then identified eight other persons with
E. coli O157:H7 infections or HUS from mid-November through mid-January 1993.
Four of the nine reportedly had recently eaten at a chain A restaurant and

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  5
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

four at a chain B restaurant in San Diego. After the Washington outbreak was
reported, reviews of medical records at five hospitals revealed an overall 27%
increase in visits or admissions for diarrhea during December 1992 and January
1993 compared with the same period 1 year earlier. A case was defined as
postdiarrheal HUS, bloody diarrhea that was culture negative or not cultured,
or any diarrheal illness in which stool culture yielded E. coli O157:H7, with
onset from November 15, 1992, through January 31, 1993.
     Illnesses of 34 patients met the case definition (Figure 2B). The
outbreak strain was identified in stool specimens of six patients. Fourteen
persons were hospitalized, seven developed HUS, and one child died. The median
age of case-patients was 10 years (range: 1-58 years). A case-control study of
the first 25 case-patients identified and age- and sex-matched community
controls implicated eating at a chain A restaurant in San Diego (matched
OR=13; 95% confidence interval CI=1.7-99). A study comparing case-patients
who ate at chain A restaurants with well meal companions implicated regular-
sized hamburger patties (matched OR=undefined; lower confidence limit=1.3).
Chain B was not statistically associated with illness. Nevada
     On January 22, after receiving a report of a child with HUS who had eaten
at a local chain A restaurant, the Clark County (Las Vegas) Health District
issued a press release requesting that persons with recent bloody diarrhea
contact the health department. A case was defined as postdiarrheal HUS, bloody
diarrhea that was culture negative or not cultured, or any diarrheal illness
with a stool culture yielding the Washington strain of E. coli O157:H7, with
onset from December 1, 1992, through February 7, 1993. Because local
laboratories were not using sorbitol MacConkey (SMAC) medium to screen stools
for E. coli O157:H7, this organism was not identified in any patient. After
SMAC medium was distributed, the outbreak strain was detected in the stool of
one patient 38 days after illness onset.
     Of 58 persons whose illnesses met the case definition (Figure 2C), nine
were hospitalized; three developed HUS. The median age was 30.5 years (range:
0-83 years). Analysis of the first 21 patients identified and age- and sex-
matched community controls implicated eating at a chain A restaurant during
the week preceding illness onset (matched OR=undefined; lower confidence
limit=4.9). A case-control study using well meal companions of case-patients
also implicated eating hamburgers at chain A (matched OR=6.0; 95% CI=0.7-
49.8). Other Investigation Findings
     During the outbreak, chain A restaurants in Washington linked with cases
primarily were serving regular-sized hamburger patties produced on November
19, 1992; some of the same meat was used in "jumbo" patties produced on
November 20, 1992. The outbreak strain of E. coli O157:H7 was isolated from 11
lots of patties produced on those two dates; these lots had been distributed
to restaurants in all states where illness occurred. Approximately 272,672
(20%) of the implicated patties were recovered by the recall.
     A meat traceback by a CDC team identified five slaughter plants in the
United States and one in Canada as the likely sources of carcasses used in the

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  6
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

contaminated lots of meat and identified potential control points for reducing
the likelihood of contamination. The animals slaughtered in domestic slaughter
plants were traced to farms and auctions in six western states. No one
slaughter plant or farm was identified as the source.
     Further investigation of cases related to secondary transmission in
families and child day care settings is ongoing.

Reported by: M Davis, DVM, C Osaki, MSPH, Seattle-King County Dept of Public
Health; D Gordon, MS, MW Hinds, MD, Snohomish Health District, Everett; K
Mottram, C Winegar, MPH, Tacoma-Pierce County Health Dept; ED Avner, MD, PI
Tarr, MD, Dept of Pediatrics, D Jardine, MD, Depts of Anesthesiology and
Pediatrics, Univ of Washington School of Medicine and Children's Hospital and
Medical Center, Seattle; M Goldoft, MD, B Bartleson, MPH; J Lewis, JM
Kobayashi, MD, State Epidemiologist, Washington Dept of Health. G Billman, MD,
J Bradley, MD, Children's Hospital, San Diego; S Hunt, P Tanner, RES, M
Ginsberg, MD, San Diego County Dept of Health Svcs; L Barrett, DVM, SB Werner,
MD, GW Rutherford, III, MD, State Epidemiologist, California Dept of Health
Svcs. RW Jue, Central District Health Dept, Boise; H Root, Southwest District
Health Dept, Caldwell; D Brothers, MA, RL Chehey, MS, RH Hudson, PhD, Div of
Health, Idaho State Public Health Laboratory, FR Dixon, MD, State
Epidemiologist, Div of Health, Idaho Dept of Health and Welfare. DJ Maxson,
Environmental Epidemiology Program, L Empey, PA, O Ravenholt, MD, VH Ueckart,
DVM, Clark County Health District, Las Vegas; A DiSalvo, MD, Nevada State
Public Health Laboratory; DS Kwalick, MD, R Salcido, MPH, D Brus, DVM, State
Epidemiologist, Div of Health, Nevada State Dept of Human Resources. Center
for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Food and Drug Administration. Food
Safety Inspection Svc, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Svc, US Dept of
Agriculture. Div of Field Epidemiology, Epidemiology Program Office; Enteric
Diseases Br, Div of Bacterial and Mycotic Diseases, National Center for
Infectious Diseases, CDC.

Editorial Note: E. coli O157:H7 is a pathogenic gram-negative bacterium first
identified as a cause of illness in 1982 during an outbreak of severe bloody
diarrhea traced to contaminated hamburgers (2). This pathogen has since
emerged as an important cause of both bloody diarrhea and HUS, the most common
cause of acute renal failure in children. Outbreak investigations have linked
most cases with the consumption of undercooked ground beef, although other
food vehicles, including roast beef, raw milk, and apple cider, also have been
implicated (3). Preliminary data from a CDC 2-year, nationwide, multicenter
study revealed that when stools were routinely cultured for E. coli O157:H7
that organism was isolated more frequently than Shigella in four of 10
participating hospitals and was isolated from 7.8% of all bloody stools, a
higher rate than for any other pathogen.
     Infection with E. coli O157:H7 often is not recognized because most
clinical laboratories do not routinely culture stools for this organism on

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  7
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

SMAC medium, and many clinicians are unaware of the spectrum of illnesses
associated with infection (4). The usual clinical manifestations are diarrhea
(often bloody) and abdominal cramps; fever is infrequent. Younger age groups
and the elderly are at highest risk for clinical manifestations and
complications. Illness usually resolves after 6-8 days, but 2%-7% of patients
develop HUS, which is characterized by hemolytic anemia, thrombocytopenia,
renal failure, and a death rate of 3%-5%.
     This report illustrates the difficulties in recognizing community
outbreaks of E. coli O157:H7 in the absence of routine surveillance. Despite
the magnitude of this outbreak, the problem may not have been recognized in
three states if the epidemiologic link had not been established in Washington
(1). Clinical laboratories should routinely culture stool specimens from
persons with bloody diarrhea or HUS for E. coli O157:H7 using SMAC agar (5).
When infections with E. coli O157:H7 are identified, they should be reported
to local health departments for further evaluation and, if necessary, public
health action to prevent further cases.
     E. coli O157:H7 lives in the intestines of healthy cattle, and can
contaminate meat during slaughter. CDC is collaborating with the U.S.
Department of Agriculture's Food Safety Inspection Service to identify
critical control points in processing as a component of a program to reduce
the likelihood of pathogens such as E. coli O157:H7 entering the meat supply.
Because slaughtering practices can result in contamination of raw meat with
pathogens, and because the process of grinding beef may transfer pathogens
from the surface of the meat to the interior, ground beef is likely to be
internally contaminated. The optimal food protection practice is to cook
ground beef thoroughly until the interior is no longer pink, and the juices
are clear. In this outbreak, undercooking of hamburger patties likely played
an important role. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued interim
recommendations to increase the internal temperature for cooked hamburgers to
155 F (86.1 C) (FDA, personal communication, 1993).
     Regulatory actions stimulated by the outbreak described in this report
and the recovery of thousands of contaminated patties before they could be
consumed emphasize the value of rapid public health investigations of
outbreaks. The public health impact and increasing frequency of isolation of
this pathogen underscore the need for improved surveillance for infections
caused by E. coli O157:H7 and for HUS to better define the epidemiology of E.
coli O157:H7.

References

1. CDC. Preliminary report: foodborne outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7
infections from hamburgers --western United States, 1993. MMWR 1993;42:85-6.

2. Riley LW, Remis RS, Helgerson SD, et al. Hemorrhagic colitis associated
with a rare Escherichia coli serotype. N Engl J Med 1983;308:681-5.

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  8
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

3. Griffin PM, Tauxe RV. The epidemiology of infections caused by Escherichia
coli O157:H7, other enterohemorrhagic E. coli, and the associated hemolytic
uremic syndrome. Epidemiol Rev 1991;13:60-98.

4. Griffin PM, Ostroff SM, Tauxe RV, et al. Illnesses associated with
Escherichia coli O157:H7 infections: a broad clinical spectrum. Ann Intern Med
1988;109:705-12.

5. March SB, Ratnam S. Latex agglutination test

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page  9
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

            Use of Smokeless Tobacco Among Adults -- United States,
                                     1991
            =======================================================
                   SOURCE: MMWR 42(14)   DATE: Apr 16, 1993

     Consumption of moist snuff and other smokeless tobacco products in the
United States almost tripled from 1972 through 1991 (1). Long-term use of
smokeless tobacco is associated with nicotine addiction and increased risk of
oral cancer (2) -- the incidence of which could increase if young persons who
currently use smokeless tobacco continue to use these products frequently (1).
To monitor trends in the prevalence of use of smokeless tobacco products,
CDC's 1991 National Health Interview Survey-Health Promotion and Disease
Prevention supplement (NHIS-HPDP) collected information on snuff and chewing
tobacco use and smoking from a representative sample of the U.S. civilian,
noninstitutionalized population aged greater than or equal to 18 years. This
report summarizes findings from this survey.
     The 1991 NHIS-HPDP supplement asked "Have you used snuff at least 20
times in your entire life?" and "Do you use snuff now?" Similar questions were
asked about chewing tobacco use and cigarette smoking. Current users of
smokeless tobacco were defined as those who reported snuff or chewing tobacco
use at least 20 times and who reported using snuff or chewing tobacco at the
time of the interview; former users were defined as those who reported having
used snuff or chewing tobacco at least 20 times and not using either at the
time of the interview. Ever users of smokeless tobacco included current and
former users. Current smokers were defined as those who reported smoking at
least 100 cigarettes and who were currently smoking and former smokers as
those who reported having smoked at least 100 cigarettes and who were not
smoking now. Ever smokers included current and former smokers. Data on
smokeless tobacco use were available for 43,732 persons aged greater than or
equal to 18 years and were adjusted for nonresponse and weighted to provide
national estimates. Confidence intervals (CIs) were calculated by using
standard errors generated by the Software for Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN)
(3).
     In 1991, an estimated 5.3 million (2.9%) U.S. adults were current users
of smokeless tobacco, including 4.8 million (5.6%) men and 533,000 (0.6%)
women. For all categories of comparison, the prevalence of smokeless tobacco
use was substantially higher among men. For men, the prevalence of use was
highest among those aged 18-24 years (Table 1); for women, the prevalence was
highest among those aged greater than or equal to 75 years. The prevalence of
smokeless tobacco use among men was highest among American Indians/Alaskan
Natives and whites; the prevalence among women was highest among American
Indians/Alaskan Natives and blacks. Among both men and women, prevalence of
smokeless tobacco use declined with increasing education. Prevalence was
substantially higher among residents of the southern United States and in
rural areas. Although the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use was higher among

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page 10
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

men and women below the poverty level, * this difference was significant only
for women (p less than 0.05) (Table 1).
     Among men, the prevalence of current use of snuff was highest among those
aged 18-44 years but varied considerably by age; the prevalence of use of
chewing tobacco was more evenly distributed by age group (Table 2). Although
women rarely used smokeless tobacco, the prevalence of snuff use was highest
among those aged greater than or equal to 75 years.
     An estimated 7.9 million (4.4% 95% CI=4.1-4.6) adults reported being
former smokeless tobacco users. Among ever users, the proportion who were
former smokeless tobacco users was 59.9% (95% CI=57.7-62.1). Among persons
aged 18-24 years, the proportion of former users was lower among snuff users
(56.2% 95% CI=49.4-63.0) than among chewing tobacco users (70.4% 95%
CI=64.2-76.6). Among persons aged 45-64 years, the proportion of former users
was similar for snuff (68.9% 95% CI=63.1-74.7) and chewing tobacco (73.5%
95% CI=68.9-78.1).
     Among current users of smokeless tobacco, 22.9% (95% CI=19.9-26.0)
currently smoked, 33.3% (95% CI=30.0-36.5) formerly smoked, and 43.8% (95%
CI=39.9-47.7) never smoked. In comparison, among current smokers, 2.6% (95%
CI=2.3-3.0) were current users of smokeless tobacco.
     Daily use of smokeless tobacco was more common among snuff users (67.3%
95% CI=63.2-71.4) than among chewing tobacco users (45.1% 95% CI=40.6-
49.6).

Reported by: Office on Smoking and Health, National Center for Chronic Disease
Prevention and Health Promotion; Div of Health Interview Statistics, National
Center for Health Statistics, CDC.

Editorial Note: The findings in this report indicate that the use of smokeless
tobacco was highest among young males. Adolescent and young adult males, in
particular, are the target of marketing strategies by tobacco companies that
link smokeless tobacco with athletic performance and virility. Use of oral
snuff has risen markedly among professional baseball players, encouraging this
behavior among adolescent and young adult males and increasing their risk for
nicotine addiction, oral cancer, and other mouth disorders (4).
     Differences in the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use among
racial/ethnic groups may be influenced by differences in educational levels
and socioeconomic status as well as social and cultural phenomena that require
further explanation. For example, targeted marketing practices may play a role
in maintaining or increasing prevalence among some groups, and affecting the
differential initiation of smokeless tobacco use by young persons (5,6).
     In this report, one concern is that nearly one fourth of current
smokeless tobacco users also smoke cigarettes. In the 1991 NHIS-HPDP, the
prevalence of cigarette smoking was higher among former smokeless tobacco
users than among current and never smokeless tobacco users. In a previous
study among college students, 18% of current smokeless tobacco users smoked

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page 11
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

occasionally (7). In addition, approximately 7% of adults who formerly smoked
reported substituting other tobacco products for cigarettes in an effort to
stop smoking (8). Health-care providers should recognize the potential health
implications of concurrent smokeless tobacco and cigarette use.
     The national health objectives for the year 2000 have established special
population target groups for the reduction of the prevalence of smokeless
tobacco use, including males aged 12-24 years (to no more than 4% by the year
2000 objective 3.9) and American Indian/Alaskan Native youth (to no more
than 10% by the year 2000 objective 3.9a) (9). Strategies to lower the
prevalence of smokeless tobacco use include continued monitoring of smokeless
tobacco use, integrating smoking and smokeless tobacco-control efforts,
enforcing laws that restrict minors' access to tobacco, making excise taxes
commensurate with those on cigarettes, encouraging health-care providers to
routinely provide cessation advice and follow-up, providing school-based
prevention and cessation interventions, and adopting policies that prohibit
tobacco use on school property and at school-sponsored events (5).

References

1. Office of Evaluations and Inspections. Spit tobacco and youth. Washington,
DC: US Department of Health and Human Services, Office of the Inspector
General, 1992; DHHS publication no. (OEI-06)92-00500.

2. National Institutes of Health. The health consequences of using smokeless
tobacco: a report of the Advisory Committee to the Surgeon General. Bethesda,
Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service,
1986; DHHS publication no. (NIH)86-2874.

3. Shah BV. Software for Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN) version 5.30 Software
documentation. Research Triangle Park, North Carolina: Research Triangle
Institute, 1989.

4. Connolly GN, Orleans CT, Blum A. Snuffing tobacco out of sport. Am J Public
Health 1992;82:351-3.

5. National Cancer Institute. Smokeless tobacco or health: an international
perspective. Bethesda, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services,
Public Health Service, National Institutes of Health, 1992; DHHS publication
no. (NIH)92-3461.

6. Foreyt JP, Jackson AS, Squires WG, Hartung GH, Murray TD, Gotto AM.
Psychological profile of college students who use smokeless tobacco. Addict
Behav 1993;18:107-16.

7. Glover ED, Laflin M, Edwards SW. Age of initiation and switching patterns

HICNet Medical Newsletter                                              Page 12
Volume  6, Number 10                                           April 20, 1993

between smokeless tobacco and cigarettes among college students in the United
States. Am J Public Health 1989;79:207-8.

8. CDC. Tobacco use in 1986: methods and tabulations from Adult Use of Tobacco
Survey. Rockville, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services,
Public Health Service, CDC, 1990; DHHS publication no. (OM)90-2004.

9. Public Health Service. Healthy people 2000: national health promotion and
disease prevention objectives. Washington, DC: US Department of Health and
Human Services, Public Health Service, 1991; DHHS publication no. (PHS)91-
50213.

--------- end of part 1 ------------


Dear Rob,

Sometimes I do come across condesending, and I am sorry I come across that
way at times.  Thank you for the reproach, I really do appreciate it.  I'll
try to get better.

Rob, at the same time, I have also learned that some people respond to the gentle
approach while others respond only at a harsh rebuke.  Brian K., so far,
only responds to the latter.  And I am glad he responds at all.   In both
cases of approach,  my intention is to be loving.  I am making no excuse
for myself if I am coming across condesending.  I apologize for that.

Rob, sometimes Brian K. comes across as honest. I know this.  But Brian K.
vasillates back and forth.  One post looks honest; the next is
an excuse.  Now he wants me to explain the universe in 50 words or less.
I think Brian Kendig is really trying but he is too comfortable with
his set of excuses.

I just want Brian K. to be honest with himself.  If he really wants
to know, he will ask questions and stop asserting irrelevant excuses
which have nothing to do with my God.   I wish Brian would read the
Bible for himself and come to his own decisions without being
sidetracked with the temptation to mock God.

From my perspective Rob, when I look at Brian Kendig, I see a man
standing out in the middle of a highway.  Off into the distance I
see a Mack truck heading right for him, but Brian K. is faced away
from the oncoming truck.  He doesn't see it.   Here's is how I see
the dialog:

Me:  "Brian K, please step aside before you get run over."

BK:  "There is no truck."

Me:  "Turn around at look."

BK:  "No."

Me:  "Look!  You will be healthier if you do take a look at
     the oncoming truck."

BK:  "No. Explain to me why trucks exist."

Me:  "Turn around or you will run over."

BK:  "No. I won't because I like hiking and tomorrow is Tuesday."

Me:  "You blind fool!  Why do you choose ignorance? You have nothing
      to lose if you look.  But if do not look, you will certainly lose your life."
      I do not want to see you squashed all over the road.

BK:  "It is my life to lose.  I rather not look.
      Besides, a truck running over me will not harm me."
      And by the way, I really have an open mind."

So is my motivation to belittle Brian, or to love Brian the best I know how?

I do not wish to single Brian Kendig out.  Because millions if not
billions of people fall into the same category.  Perhaps all people
fall have fallen into this category at one time in their lives.  I have.
I can now see the truck behind Brian.

My hope is that Brian will look and will see the ramifications of the
truck coming towards him.  My hope is that Brian will want to step out
of the way.  My fear, though,  is that Brian will instead choose to glue himself
to the middle of the highway, where he will certainly get run over.  But if
he so chooses, he so chooses, and there is nothing I can do beyond that
to change his mind.   For it is his choice.   But at this very moment,
Brian hasn't gotten even that far.  He is still at the point where he
does not want to look.  Sure he moves his eyeball to appease me, but his
head will not turn around to see the entire picture.  So far he is
satisfied with his glimpse of the mountains off in the distance.


Are there any graphics cards for the SE/30 that also have, say, an 040
accelerator?  There seem to be plenty of accelerator/graphics cards for
the _SE_, but none (that I've seen) for the SE/30.

Thanks


I wondered the same thing.  When he first mentioned it, I thought he was
just making a mistake but then he said it over and over.  And then in the
examples from other years, he gave stats for players from both leagues even
when only one league expanded.

So (since stats *NEVER* lie :-) ), I guess there is an effect on both leagues
because the expansion draft takes talent from both leagues equally making
every team in both leagues dilute their major league talent by calling up
players that, normally, they would not have had there not been expansion.


Hi folks!

Recently saw one post about KREME being a *bad idea*, but that was only
one man's opinion.


Yea, thanks to lots of good information in this newsgroup, I was prepared
for lots of details (even shipping time ... got my C610 8/230/CD in 5 weeks).
I guess my biggest disappointment is the lack of detail in the written
specs and documentation.  The case load spec is an example -- the setup
section says Apple 14" and 16" monitors can go on top, but 21" and other
big ones can't.  Why couldn't they publish a maximum load?

Now if I can figure out if there's any hope using the "partition" button
on the hard disk setup utility (do I dare just try it and see what happens?),
then maybe I can divide up the wealth among the family members a bit more
securly.  The "getting more information" section of the manual suggested
trying other avenues before calling Apple, but didn't mention the net.


Hey!? What happened to the solar sail race that was supposed to be
for Columbus+500?


Oh contrer mon captitan!  There is a way.  Certainly it is not by human reason.
 Certainly it is not by human experience. (and yet it is both!)  To paraphrase
Sartre, the particular is absurd unless it has an infinite reference point.  It
is only because of God's own revelation that we can be absolute about a thing.
Your logic comes to fruition in relativism.

Ah, now it is clear.  Ludwig was a desciple of Russell. Ludwig's fame is often
explained by the fact that he spawned not one but two significant movements in
contemporary philosophy. Both revolve around Tractatus Logico-Philosphicus
('21) and Philosophical Investigation ('53).  Many of Witt's comments and
implicit conclusions suggest ways of going beyond the explicit critique of
language he offers.  According to some of the implicit suggestions of Witt's
thought, ordinary language is an invaluable resource, offering a necessary
framework for the conduct of daily life.  However, though its formal features
remain the same, its content does not and it is always capable of being
transcended as our experience changes and our understanding is deepened, giving
us a clearer picture of what we are and what we wish to say.  On Witt's own
account, there is a dynamic fluidity of language.   It is for this reason that
any critique of language must move from talking about the limits of language to
talking about its boundaries, where a boundary is understood not as a wall but
a threshold.
  vonWrights's comment that Witt's "sentences have a content that often lies
deep beneath the surface of language."  On the surface, Witt talks of the
insuperable position of ordinary language and the necessity of bringing
ourselves to accept it without question.  At the same time, we are faced with
Witt's own creative uses of language and his concern for bringing about changes
in our traditional modes of understanding.  Philosophy, then, through more
perspicacious speech, seeks to effect this unity rather than assuming that it
is already functioning. Yes?  The most brilliant of scientists are unable to
offer a foundation for human speech so long as they reject Christianity! In his
Tractatus we have the well nigh perfect exhibition of the nature of the impasse
of the scientific ideal of exhaustive logical analysis of Reality by man.
Perfect language does not exist for fallen man, therefore we must get on about
our buisness of relating Truth via ordinary language.

  This is why John's Gospel is so dear to most Christians.  It is so simple in
it conveyance of the revealation of God, yet so full of unlieing depth of
understanding.  He viewed Christ from the OT concept of "as a man thinketh, so
he is."  John looked at the outward as only an indicator of what was inside,
that is the consciousness of Christ.  And so must we.  Words are only vehicals
of truth.  He is truth.  The scriptures are plain in their expounding that
there is a Truth and that it is knowable.  THere are absolutes, and they too
are knowable.  However, they are only knowable when He reveals them to the
individual.  There is, and we shouldn't shy from this, a mysticism to
Christianity.  Paul in ROm 8 says there are 3 men in the world.  There is the
one who does not have the Spirit and therefore can not know the things of the
Spirit (the Spirit of Truth) and there is the one who has the Spirit and has
the capacity to know of the Truth, but there  is the third.  THe one who not
only has the Spirit, but that the Spirit has him! Who can know the deep things
of God and reveal them to us other than the Spirit.  And it is only the deep
things of GOd that are absolute and true.
   There is such a thing as true truth and it is real, it can be experienced
and it is verifiable.  I disagree with Dr Nancy's Sweetie's conclusion because
if it is taken to fruition it leads to relativism which leads to dispair.

"I would know the words which He would answer me, and understand what He would
say unto me."  Job 23ff

--Rex


In order of your questions, I oppose it, I oppose it, I oppose it and
(Huh?  Wha?  Where did _that_ topic come from and what's it got to do
with the discussion at hand? :-)

When I was discussing the concept of different criminal laws for crimes
against different classes of people (and yes, I do consider laws which
allow/mandate enhanced penalties following conviction based upon the
convict's attitudes towards the class membership of the victim to fit
into that category), the category of classes I had in mind was that of
the standard civil rights discussion -- classes based upon race, gender,
ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc.  Having you ask about
classes based upon one's _profession_ rather than one's personal
characteristics caught me off guard, and I had to think out the question
from scratch.

What I finally decided was that the law should not recognize such
classes because to do so would be to formally and officially declare
some people to be of more worth than others, and that would be anathema
to the underlying American concept of equal treatment under the law.

Last year, when a federal crime bill was under consideration which would
have expanded the federal death penalty to an additional fifty-plus
crimes, including the murder of various federal officers hitherto not
protected by that "aura of deterrence," critics pointed out the
absurdity of having laws which made the death penalty available for the
murder of a federal postal inspector but not for ther murder of a
civilian teacher, when the latter [arguably] provided a much more
valueable service and therefore would be the greater loss to society.
This was an emotionally compelling argument, but even the proponents of
that viewpoint appeared to tacitly assume that the state should judge
some lives as being more valuable than others on the basis of their
"contribution to society."  I view that doctrine as being both (a)
personally repugnant and (b) repugnant to the Equal Protection clause of
the 14th Amendment.

Accordingly, I believe that there should be no laws which give any
profession-based class of people special protection (via the mechanism
of supplying stronger statutory deterrence of crimes against members of
that class), not even police officers, federal officers or high-ranking
members of the Executive Branch of the federal government.


I have never been to Wisconsin, though I have been to
neighbor Minnesota. Being a child of the Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA)
I found that there were few states in the provences that stood
out in this youngster's mind: California, Texas, and Florida to
name the most obvious three.  However, both Minnesota and Wisconsin
stuck out, solely on the basis of their politics.  Both have
always translated to extremely liberal and progressive states.
And my recent trip to Minnestoa last summer served to support that
state's reputation.  My guess is that Wisconsin is probably the
same.  At least that was the impression the people of Minnesota left
with me about their neighbors.

The only question in my head about Wisconsin, though, is
whether or not there is a cause-effect relationship between
cheese and serial killers :)


Their Hiten engineering-test mission spent a while in a highly eccentric
Earth orbit doing lunar flybys, and then was inserted into lunar orbit
using some very tricky gravity-assist-like maneuvering.  This meant that
it would crash on the Moon eventually, since there is no such thing as
a stable lunar orbit (as far as anyone knows), and I believe I recall
hearing recently that it was about to happen.


We had those f*****g photo-radar things here in Sweden a while ago.
There was a lot of fuzz about them, and a lot of sabotage too (a spray-can
with touch-up paint can do a lot of good...).

Eventually they had to drop the idea as there were a lot of court-cases
where the owner of the car could prove he didn't drive it at the time
of speeding.

I especially recall a case where it eventually proved to be a car-thief that
had stolen a car and made false plates. He, ofcourse, chose a license number
of a identical car, so the photo seemed correct...

In conclosion: Photo-radar sucks, every way you look at it!


massacre.

Answer: a(1-1/2-1/4-1/11)=280 -> a = 1760


I have a Radius Precision Color 24x video card for the Mac that fits in a
NuBus slot.  The card has 3 Mb of VRAM on it, which means that 24-bit color
is possible on the card!  The card supports just about any monitor scan
rate you can think of (I used it at 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768, but it
can go higher).  You can switch resolutions and depth on the fly with a
software control panel.

  This is the ACCELERATED version of the card, which means all QuickDraw
calls are not executed by the CPU but taken over by the video card, freeing
up the mac processor for other tasks.

  The cheapest I could find this card for when I called around last night
was $1738 at Mac's Place.  I will sell it for $1250 + shipping.  It is just
over a year old and never been any problem.  It comes with software and the
original manuals.

  Hurry!


I don't personally, but Clay just posted it.  Yes, we do.

Unfortunately, it shows that Lopez wasn't as good an example as Nieves would
have been, since his last year numbers were out of line with the previous
years (which I didn't have access to).

The point remains, though; knowing a guy's minor league history is as good
as knowing his major league history, if you know how to read it.

The MLE is not a *projection*, it's an *equivalence*.  It's a "this is how
well he hit *last* year, in major league terms" rating.  So, in essence, he
has *already* reached it.  I would guess (Bob?  Clay?) that essentially half
of all players surpass their previous MLEs in their rookie seasons.  Maybe
more than half, since all of these players are young and improving.

Did they?  Offerman may have been the difference between 4th or 5th place
and last place, but no more.

Sure; they didn't have anyone better.  I suppose they might have gutted the
farm system to acquire Jay Bell or Spike Owen or somebody if they were really
in contention.

If you'd read what I wrote, you'd be less amazed.  Nowhere do I claim to put
any credence in spring training.  Quite the contrary; I said that Lopez hadn't
done anything that even the bozos who *do* put credence in spring training
could interpret as "failure".  Just because I think spring training numbers
are meaningless doesn't mean that Bobby Cox does; it's just a case of ruling
out one possible explanation for sending Lopez down.

Keith Mitchell did very very well at AA, AAA, and the majors over a season,
then did very, very poorly for a year in AAA.


If you're thinking of reactive polymers they're making ESD safe
contauiners out of it. As far as being conductive goes anything with
a resistance less than 10 to the fouthrth power ohms per cubic measure
is classed as conductive per MIL-STD-1686 for ESD protection. My $0.02
($0.016 US).


The oclock widget was written using the SHAPE extension.
You can do the same in your widgets.  Few current widgets
support SHAPE, so you'll have to subclass them to add that
functionality.


Help me make money for a new modem
                         $180.00 takes it ALL

              ***** SHIPPING NOT INCLUDED IN PRICE *****

  *   All original documentation & disks are include.
      Some software unregistered, others will have letter for transfer
      of ownership.

  *   Will sell software seperately, purchase must be greater than
      $30.00.

  *   Purchases over $60.00 get choice of two (2) software selections
      with "*" footnote

  W - Windows 3.x version
  D - DOS version
  R - Registered (letter of transfer)
  U - Unregistered
  * - Special offer

MS Windows 3.0
MS Windows 3.0 Resource Kit (bound ed.). . . . . . . . . . $ 15.00 WR

Norton Desktop for Windows 1.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 15.00 WR

MS Excel 4.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 70.00 WR
   Gateway 2000 version (all docs & disks MS)
   This is the real thing, it only shipped
   with my computer!!

MicroCourier 1.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 15.00 WU
   Communucations software

MS Entertainment Pack I. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 10.00*WR

MicroProse's Gunship 2000 (VGA only). . . . . . . . . . . .$ 20.00 DU

Links 386-PRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 25.00 DR
   Includes Bountiful Golf Course

Wing Commander II
(Vengeance of the Kilrathi!). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 20.00 DR

F-15 Strike Eagle II. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR

Risk (EGA). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$  8.00*DU

EasyFlow 6.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 35.00 DU
   Brand new - Never used

Quicken 4.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 15.00 DR

Franklin Language Master. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR
    Not a spell checker, but a dictionary
    TSR that pops up for any DOS app.
    Each word has direct link to the thesaurus

IBM DOS 4.00. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR

                                            TOTAL. . . . . $313.00
                                          - DISCOUNT. . . .$133.00
                                                           -------
                                            YOUR COST. . . $180.00

Call Michael @ (804) 486-7018 any day between 10a & 10p est. or leave
E-mail.  Thanks!