Hi there,

Does anyone know why Apple has an ambiguous message for
C650 regarding fpu?  In all Mac price lists I've seen, every C650
has the message "fpu: optional".  I know from what we've discussed in this
newsgroup that all C650 have the fpu built in except the 4/80
configuration.  Why would they be so unclear about this issue in their
price list?
I'm planning to buy the C650 8/230/cd pretty soon, but I'm now getting
confused with whether it comes with fpu or not.
Why say "optional" if it's built in?
Please, anybody help me understand this game.

Regards,


Actually, they are legal! I not familiar with the ad you are speaking of
but knowing Popular Science it is probably on the fringe.  However, you
may be speaking of "Public Missle, Inc.", which is a legitimate company
that has been around for a while.

Due to advances in composite fuels, engines are now available for model
rockets using similar composites to SRB fuel, roughly 3 times more
powerful than black powder motors.  They are even available in a reloadable
form, i.e. aluminum casing, end casings, o-rings (!).  The engines range
from D all the way to M in common manufacture, N and O I've heard of
used at special occasions.

To be a model rocket, however, the rocket can't contain any metal
structural parts, amongst other requirements.  I've never heard of a
model rocket doing 50,000.  I have heard of > 20,000 foot flights.
These require FAA waivers (of course!).  There are a few large national
launches (LDRS, FireBALLS), at which you can see many > K sized engine
flights.  Actually, using a > G engine constitutes the area of "High
Power Rocketry", which is seperate from normal model rocketry.  Purchase
of engines like I have been describing require membership in the National
Association of Rocketry, the Tripoli Rocketry Assoc., or you have to
be part of an educational institute or company involved in rocketry.

Amatuer rocketry is another area.  I'm not really familiar with this,
but it is an area where metal parts are allowed, along with liquid fuels
and what not.  I don't know what kind of regulations are involved, but
I'm sure they are numerous.


Does anyone have any information/advice on large color monitors
(17"-21") to use with a 486 system running X server software?
I maining looking for quality information and price, but all
information is welcomed.

Thanks,
David


Surprise surprise, different people react differently to different things. One
slightly off the subject case in point. My brother got stung by a bee. I know
he is allergic to bee stings, but that his reaction is severe localized
swelling, not anaphylactic shock. I could not convince the doctors of that,
however, because that's not written in their little rule book.

I would not be surprised in the least to find out the SOME people have bad
reactions to MSG, including headaches, stomachaches and even vomiting. Not that
the stuff is BAD or POISON and needs to be banned, but people need to be aware
that it can have a bad effect on SOME people.

Lone Wolf


I thnik i'll be able to pick up  a piar of Mac 512K's for nothing, but
their power supplies are dead.  Anyone know where I can pick up a pair
of refurbished PS's for cheap (preferably mail order).
Yes, I do have uses planned fior them.  One will be sold to a friend who
just needs a terminal to connect via modem to his e-mail account.
The other will be used by me as a net client to run my downloads and/or
printing.


How long does it take a smoker's lungs to clear of the tar after quitting?
Does your chances of getting lung cancer decrease quickly or does it take
a considerable amount of time for that to happen?


Hell, just save your candle stubs and bring them.  Light them up, and
dribble the wax all over the kindling wood and light _that_.  Although
I like the belly-button lint / eggshell case idea the best, if you're
feeling particularly industrious some eventful evening.  Or you can
do what I did one soggy summer: open the fuel line, drain some onto a
piece of rough or rotten wood, stick that into the middle of the soon-to-
be inferno and CAREFULLY strike a match... As Kurt Vonnegut titled one
of the latter chapters in Cat's Cradle, "Ah-Whoom!"

Works like a charm every time :-)


I don't know a whole lot on Proton, but given that it is a multi stage
rocket,  up to 4 stages, it may not really need the Centaur,  plus
it may end up seriously beating on said centaur.

Also, the centaur is not small,  unless the Proton has an oversize
shroud you may not be able to get the centaur in under it.

Dennis,  you know much about this?


Sounds like the picture tube lost vacuum.  This would cause the filament
to ignite and could actually turn the tube from a vacuum to a pressure
vessel, followed by an explosion when the neck assembly (mostly likely
cracked to begin with) blows off.  During the whole sequence of events,
the other circuits may continue functioning, which accounts for not
losing sound.


The cryptographic algorythm MUST be kept secret, or
private individuals could make ClipperClones with
which they could transmit messages which the feds would not have
ready access to.  This is clearly unacceptable.


Hello World,
	     just bought a new Stealth two weeks ago. Got a grad student
 rebate. Someone told me that there's another $400 reabet for 1st time
 Chrysler buyer. True ? If yes can I still get it or am I too late ?


Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My computer from Gateway is freezing up on me.
Gateway tech support couldn't help me. They want more specifics on when
it freezes up.  I DID!  Anyway, here it is.  If the keyboard is left idle
in Dos for more than 15 minutes, I can type on the command line, but as
soon as I hit a carraige return, the computer locks up.  This will happen
almost every time, whether I've just booted up, reset, or finished using a
dos program.  Everything works fine if I don't let it sit.  Windows is a
different story.  If I let the machine sit while in windows for 15 minutes
or more, it does not freeze up.  However,  I do get frequent application
errors that kick me out of an application unexpectedly, losing my work.
I just don't know if this is a hardware or software problem.  Any help
in diagnosis or things to try, would be greatly appreciated.

P.S.  I do not run any TSRs (except smartdrive) and QAplus diagnostics
says everything is good.

System is:  486SX-33
            15" Crystalscan Gateway Monitor
            VLB-ATI ultra pro (using mach32 driver build 55)
            Winchester 170MB HD
            Microsoft mouse
Thanks,


Go back to nursery school jerk.


I'll have to disagree with you on this one. I think Vancouver will go as
Bure goes, and if he continues on his goal scoring slump, then they
won't even make it out of the first round. I think the Kings will make
it out of the first round, regardless of who they play. They seem to be
doing pretty well, even with that bad game against Minnesota on
Saturday. I think it'll be either Calgary or Los Angeles to win the
Smythe (i.e. go on to the conference finals).


Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part05
Last-modified: 1993/4/15

FAQ for sci.crypt, part 5: Product ciphers

This is the fifth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are
mostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest.
We don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask.
Notes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part.

The sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu
as /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx].  The Cryptography
FAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers
every 21 days.

Contents:

* What is a product cipher?
* What makes a product cipher secure?
* What are some group-theoretic properties of product ciphers?
* What can be proven about the security of a product cipher?
* How are block ciphers used to encrypt data longer than the block size?
* Can symmetric block ciphers be used for message authentication?
* What exactly is DES?
* What is triple DES?
* What is differential cryptanalysis?
* How was NSA involved in the design of DES?
* Is DES available in software?
* Is DES available in hardware?
* Can DES be used to protect classified information?
* What are "ECB", "CBC", "CFB", and "OFB" encryption?

* What is a product cipher?

  A product cipher is a block cipher that iterates several weak
  operations such as substitution, transposition, modular
  addition/multiplication, and linear transformation. (A ``block
  cipher'' just means a cipher that encrypts a block of data---8 bytes,
  say---all at once, then goes on to the next block.) The notion of
  product ciphers is due to Shannon [SHA49]. Examples of modern
  product ciphers include LUCIFER [SOR84], DES [NBS77], SP-networks
  [KAM78], LOKI [BRO90], FEAL [SHI84], PES [LAI90], Khufu and Khafre
  [ME91a]. The so-called Feistel ciphers are a class of product
  ciphers which operate on one half of the ciphertext at each round,
  and then swap the ciphertext halves after each round. LUCIFER,
  DES, LOKI, and FEAL are examples of Feistel ciphers.

  The following table compares the main parameters of several product
  ciphers:

  cipher   |   block length   |   key bits   |   number of rounds
  LUCIFER          128               128                16
  DES               64                56                16
  LOKI              64                64                16
  FEAL              64               128            2^x, x >= 5
  PES               64               128                 8

* What makes a product cipher secure?

  Nobody knows how to prove mathematically that a product cipher is
  completely secure. So in practice one begins by demonstrating that the
  cipher ``looks highly random''. For example, the cipher must be
  nonlinear, and it must produce ciphertext which functionally depends
  on every bit of the plaintext and the key. Meyer [MEY78] has shown
  that at least 5 rounds of DES are required to guarantee such a
  dependence. In this sense a product cipher should act as a ``mixing''
  function which combines the plaintext, key, and ciphertext in a
  complex nonlinear fashion.

  The fixed per-round substitutions of the product cipher are
  referred to as S-boxes. For example, LUCIFER has 2 S-boxes, and DES
  has 8 S-boxes. The nonlinearity of a product cipher reduces to a
  careful design of these S-boxes. A list of partial design criteria
  for the S-boxes of DES, which apply to S-boxes in general, may be
  found in Brown [BRO89] and Brickell et al. [BRI86].

* What are some group-theoretic properties of product ciphers?

  Let E be a product cipher that maps N-bit blocks to N-bit blocks.
  Let E_K(X) be the encryption of X under key K. Then, for any fixed K,
  the map sending X to E_K(X) is a permutation of the set of N-bit
  blocks. Denote this permutation by P_K. The set of all N-bit
  permutations is called the symmetric group and is written S_{2^N}.
  The collection of all these permutations P_K, where K ranges over all
  possible keys, is denoted E(S_{2^N}). If E were a random mapping from
  plaintexts to ciphertexts then we would expect E(S_{2^N}) to generate
  a large subset of S_{2^N}.

  Coppersmith and Grossman [COP74] have shown that a very simple
  product cipher can generate the alternating group A_{2^N} given a
  sufficient number of rounds. (The alternating group is half of the
  symmetric group: it consists of all ``even'' permutations, i.e., all
  permutations which can be written as an even number of swaps.)
  Even and Goldreich [EVE83] were able to extend these results to show
  that Feistel ciphers can generate A_{2^N}, given a sufficient number
  of rounds.

  The security of multiple encipherment also depends on the
  group-theoretic properties of a cipher. Multiple encipherment is an
  extension over single encipherment if for keys K1, K2 there does
  not exist a third key K3 such that

  E_K2(E_K1(X)) == E_(K3)(X)                (**)

  which indicates that encrypting twice with two independent keys
  K1, K2 is equal to a single encryption under the third key K3.  If
  for every K1, K2 there exists a K3 such that eq. (**) is true then
  we say that E is a group.

  This question of whether DES is a group under this definition was
  extensively studied by Sherman, Kaliski, and Rivest [SHE88]. In their
  paper they give strong evidence for the hypothesis that DES is not a
  group. In fact DES is not a group [CAM93].

* What can be proven about the security of a product cipher?

  Recall from above that P_K is a permutation produced by E under
  some key K. The goal of the designer of E is to ensure that P_K
  appears to be a random element of S_{2^N}, the symmetric group.
  Let R be an element of S_{2^N} selected randomly. We will say that P_K
  and R are indistinguishable if an observer given P_K and R in some
  order cannot distinguish between these two permutations in polynomial
  time. That is, with time bounded resources, the observer cannot
  determine which of the permutations is produced by E: the optimal
  decision is no better than simply guessing.

  Luby and Rackoff [LUB88] have shown that a class of Feistel ciphers
  are secure in this sense when the round mapping is replaced by
  random boolean functions.

* How are block ciphers used to encrypt data longer than the block size?

  There are four standard "modes of operation" (and numerous non-standard
  ones as well).  The standard modes of operation are defined in the U.S.
  Department of Commerce Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS) 81,
  published in 1980.  See the question about "ECB" below for more details.

  Although they are defined for the DES block cipher, the "modes of
  operation" can be used with any block cipher.

* Can symmetric block ciphers be used for message authentication?

  One may use a symmetric cryptosystem block cipher to prove to himself
  that he did or did not generate a message, and to prove to himself
  whether his message was altered or unaltered since generation.  But one
  cannot prove these things to another without revealing the key, and
  thereafter that key cannot be used to prove anything about any messages
  that were authenticated using that key.

  See ANSI X3.106-1983 and FIPS 113 (1985) for a standard method of message
  authentication using DES.

* What exactly is DES?

  DES is the U.S. Government's Data Encryption Standard - a product
  cipher that operates on 64-bit blocks of data, using a 56-bit key.

  It is defined in FIPS 46-1 (1988) [which supersedes FIPS 46 (1977)].
  FIPS are Federal Information Processing Standards published by NTIS.
  DES is identical to the ANSI standard Data Encryption Algorithm (DEA)
  defined in ANSI X3.92-1981.

* What is triple DES?

  Triple DES is a product cipher which, like DES, operates on 64-bit
  data blocks.  There are several forms, each of which uses the DES
  cipher 3 times.  Some forms use two 56-bit keys, some use three.
  The "DES modes of operation" may also be used with triple-DES.

  Some people refer to E(K1,D(K2,E(K1,x))) as triple-DES.

  This method is defined in chapter 7.2 of the ANSI standard X9.17-1985
  "Financial Institution Key Management" and is intended for use in
  encrypting DES keys and IVs for "Automated Key Distribution".  Its
  formal name is "Encryption and Decryption of a Single Key by a Key
  Pair", but it is referenced in other standards documents as EDE.

  That standard says (section 7.2.1): "Key encrypting keys may be a single
  DEA key or a DEA key pair.  Key pairs shoud be used where additional
  security is needed (e.g., the data protected by the key(s) has a long
  security life).  A key pair shall not be encrypted or decrypted using a
  single key."

  Others use the term "triple-DES" for E(K1,D(K2,E(K3,x))) or
  E(K1,E(K2,E(K3,x))).

  One of us (Carl Ellison) keeps advocating DES triple use in the form
  E(K1, TRAN( E(K2, TRAN( E(K3, COMPRESS( x )))))), where each DES instance
  has its own key and IV (for CBC mode) and TRAN has been posted on
  sci.crypt.  (It is a large-block transposition program taking its key
  from the data stream itself, so that it is not an encryption program on
  its own part.)

* What is differential cryptanalysis?

  Differential cryptanalysis is a statistical attack that can be
  applied to any iterated mapping (ie. any mapping which is based on
  a repeated round function). The method was recently popularized by
  Biham and Shamir [BIH91], but Coppersmith has remarked that the
  S-boxes of DES were optimized against this attack some 20 years ago.
  This method has proved effective against several product ciphers,
  notably FEAL [BI91a].

  Differential cryptanalysis is based on observing a large number of
  ciphertexts Y, Y' whose corresponding plaintexts X, X' satisfy a
  known difference D = X+X', where + is componentwise XOR. In the
  basic Biham-Shamir attack, 2^{47} such plaintext pairs are required
  to determine the key for DES. Substantially fewer pairs are required
  if DES is truncated to 6 or 8 rounds. In these cases, the actual key
  can be recovered in a matter of minutes using a few thousand pairs.
  For full DES this attack is impractical because it requires so many
  known plaintexts.

  The work of Biham and Shamir on DES revealed several startling
  observations on the algorithm. Most importantly, if the key
  schedule was removed from DES and a 16*48 = 768-bit key was used,
  the key could be recovered in less than 2^{64} steps. Thus
  independent subkeys do not add substantial security to DES.
  Further, the S-boxes of DES are extremely sensitive in that
  changing even single entries in these tables yields significant
  improvement in the differential attack.

  Adi Shamir is quoted to say (NYTimes Oct 13 1991), ``I would say
  that, contrary to what some people believe, there is no evidence
  of tampering with the DES so that the basic design was weakened.''

* How was NSA involved in the design of DES?

  According to Kinnucan [KIN78], Tuchman, a member of the group that
  developed DES at IBM is quoted as saying, ``We developed the DES
  algorithm entirely within IBM using IBMers. The NSA did not
  dictate a single wire!'' Tuchman and Meyer (another developer of
  DES) spent a year breaking ciphers and finding weaknesses in
  Lucifer. They then spent two years strengthening Lucifer. ``Their
  basic approach was to look for strong substitution, permutation,
  and key scheduling functions ... IBM has classified the notes
  containing the selection criteria at the request of the NSA....
  `The NSA told us we had inadvertently reinvented some of the deep
  secrets it uses to make its own algorithms,' explains Tuchman.''

  On the other hand, a document called ``Involvement of the NSA in
  the development of DES: unclassified summary of the United States
  Select Committee on Intelligence'', printed in the IEEE
  Communications Magazine, p53-55, 1978, states: ``In the development
  of DES, NSA convinced IBM that a reduced keysize was sufficient;
  indirectly assisted in the development of the S-box structures; and
  certified that the final DES algorithm was, to the best of their
  knowledge, free from any statistical or mathematical weakness.''

  Clearly the key size was reduced at the insistence of the NSA.
  The article further states that the NSA did not tamper with the
  algorithm itself, just the parameters, which in some sense
  resolves the apparent conflict in the remarks of Meyer and Tuchman
  presented above.

* Is DES available in software?

  Several people have made DES code available via ftp (see part 10 for
  pathnames): Stig Ostholm [FTPSO]; BSD [FTPBK]; Eric Young [FTPEY];
  Dennis Furguson [FTPDF]; Mark Riordan [FTPMR]; Phil Karn [FTPPK].
  A Pascal listing of DES is also given in Patterson [PAT87].

  FIPS 46-1 says "The algorithm specified in this standard is to be
  implemented ... using hardware (not software) technology.  ...
  Software implementations in general purpose computers are not in
  compliance with this standard."  Despite this, software
  implementations abound, and are used by government agencies.

* Is DES available in hardware?

  The following paragraphs are quoted from messages sent to the editors.
  We don't vouch for the quality or even existence of the products.

  encryption/decryption device for use on standard, digital 64Kbps PCM
  telecom data streams. It is capable of processing data in real time,
  e.g. one sample/frame. It is the DS2160. Their phone number is
  214-450-0400. You would probably need to talk with Dewight in Telecom
  marketing.''

  Cryptech CRY12C102: 22.5Mbit/s according to Data Sheet, with 32 Bit
  interface. We use this one, because it was the only one available when
  we started the project. No problems !  2. Pijnenburg PCC100: 20Mbit/s
  according to Data Sheet. Address: PIJNENBURG B.V., Boxtelswweg 26,
  NL-5261 NE Vught, The Netherlands.  3. INFOSYS DES Chip (Germany):
  S-Boxes must be loaded by software. So you can modify the Algorithm.
  Sorry, I don't have the data sheet handy. Please E-Mail me if you need
  further information.''

  DES and Proprietary Storage for 16 56-bit keys Key stream generator
  Integrated hardware DES3 procedure Extended mode with 112 bit keys;
  Computer Elektronik Infosys; 512-A Herndon Parkway,; Herndon, VA
  22070; (800)322-3464

  an AM9568 compatible DES chip that operates at 25MHz, performs a
  round of encryption in 18 clocks, has a three-stage pipeline,
  supports ECB, CBC, CFB-8 and >>> CFB-1 <<<<.  Further it is very
  reasonable priced as opposed to other high-end DES chips.  Call
  Newbridge Microsystems, Ottawa, (613) 592-0714.  (... there are no
  import/export issues with Canada and the US).  If you require custom
  DES or Public Key ICs then Timestep Engineering developed
  Newbridge's crypto chips and ICs for other commercial and
  educational establishments. They can be reached at (613) 820-0024.

* Can DES be used to protect classified information?

  "This standard will be used by Federal departments and agencies for
  the cryptographic protection of computer data when the following
  conditions apply: 1.  ...  cryptographic protection is required; and
  2. the data is not classified according to the National Security Act
  of 1947, as amended, or the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended."

* What are "ECB", "CBC", "CFB", and "OFB" encryption?

  These are methods for using block ciphers, such as DES, to encrypt
  messages, files, and blocks of data, known as "modes of operation."
  Four "modes of operation" are defined in FIPS 81 (1980 December 2),
  and also in ANSI X3.106-1983.

  FIPS 81 specifies that when 7-bit ASCII data is sent in octets, the
  unused most-significant bit is to be set to 1.
  FIPS 81 also specifies the padding for short blocks.

  The four DES modes of operation are:
	Electronic Code Book  (ECB),
	Cipher Block Chaining (CBC),
	K-bit Cipher FeedBack (CFB), and
	K-bit Output FeedBack (OFB).

  These methods are explained below in a c-language-like notation.

  Some symbols:

  P[n]	The n'th block of plaintext, input to encryption, output from
  	decryption.  Size of block determined by the mode.

  C[n]	The n'th block of ciphertext, output from encryption, input to
  	decryption.  Size of block determined by the mode.

  E(m)	The DES encryption function, performed on 64-bit block m, using
  	the 16-key schedule derived from some 56-bit key.

  D(m)	The DES decryption function, performed on 64-bit block m, using
  	the same key schedule as in E(m), except that the 16 keys
  	in the schedule are used in the opposite order as in E(m).

  IV	A 64-bit "initialization vector", a secret value which, along with
  	the key, is shared by both encryptor and decryptor.

  I[n]	The n'th value of a 64-bit variable, used in some modes.
  R[n]	The n'th value of a 64-bit variable, used in some modes.

  LSB(m,k) The k least significant (right-most) bits of m.
  	e.g.  m & ((1 << k) - 1)

  MSB(m,k) The k most significant (left-most) bits of m.
  	e.g.  (m >> (64-k)) & ((1 << k) - 1)

  = ^ << >> &  operators as defined in the c langage.

  Electronic Code Book (ECB):

  	  P[n] and C[n] are each 64-bits long.

  	  Encryption:			Decryption:
  	  C[n] = E(P[n])		P[n] = D(C[n])

  Cipher Block Chaining (CBC):

  	  P[n] and C[n] are each 64-bits long.

  	  Encryption:			Decryption:
  	  C[0] = E(P[0]^IV)		P[0] = D(C[0])^IV
  (n>0)	  C[n] = E(P[n]^C[n-1])		P[n] = D(C[n])^C[n-1]

  k-bit Cipher FeedBack (CFB):

  	  P[n] and C[n] are each k bits long, 1 <= k <= 64.

  	  Encryption:			Decryption:
  	  I[0] = IV			I[0] = IV
  (n>0)	  I[n] = I[n-1]<<k | C[n-1]	I[n] = I[n-1]<<k | C[n-1]
  (all n) R[n] = MSB(E(I[n]),k)		R[n] = MSB(E(I[n]),k)
  (all n) C[n] = P[n]^R[n]		P[n] = C[n]^R[n]

  	  Note that for k==64, this reduces to:

  	  I[0] = IV			I[0] = IV
  (n>0)	  I[n] = C[n-1]			I[n] = C[n-1]
  (all n) R[n] = E(I[n])		R[n] = E(I[n])
  (all n) C[n] = P[n]^R[n]		P[n] = C[n]^R[n]

  CFB notes: Since I[n] depends only on the plain or cipher text from the
  previous operation, the E() function can be performed in parallel with
  the reception of the text with which it is used.

  k-bit Output FeedBack (OFB):

  	  P[n] and C[n] are each k bits long, 1 <= k <= 64.

  	  Encryption:			Decryption:
  	  I[0] = IV			I[0] = IV
  (n>0)	  I[n] = I[n-1]<<k | R[n-1]	I[n] = I[n-1]<<k | R[n-1]
  (all n) R[n] = MSB(E(I[n]),k)		R[n] = MSB(E(I[n]),k)
  (all n) C[n] = P[n]^R[n]		P[n] = C[n]^R[n]

  	  Note that for k==64, this reduces to:

  	  I[0] = IV			I[0] = IV
  (n>0)	  I[n] = R[n-1]			I[n] = R[n-1]
  (all n) R[n] = E(I[n])		R[n] = E(I[n])
  (all n) C[n] = P[n]^R[n]		P[n] = C[n]^R[n]

  OFB notes: encryption and decryption are identical.  Since I[n] is
  independent of P and C, the E() function can be performed in advance of
  the receipt of the plain/cipher text with which it is to be used.

  Additional notes on DES "modes of operation":


Woops.  I'm not sure if I screwed up, but this is either forgery or some
sort of mistake (aborted post that didn't abort) on my part.

Bogus article below if seen in another post should be ignored..

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) /  3:29 pm  Apr 13, 1993 /
/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / papresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) /  1:49 am  Apr 12, 1993 /

Let's look at this critically:
1.How many guns did this illegal manufacturing site make compared to
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<and so on...>


I'm looking for a PC that is small and doesn't break apart if you drop
it on the groud.
It doesn't have to have graphics, text only will do
just fine. It doesn't have to be fast either, 8086 will do, I hope.
But you must stand a pretty hard enviroment without breaking apart,
jumnping on it or trying to use it outdoor while it is raining and so
forth. I need 640Kb of memory and a convinient way of loading
applications into it that I wrote myself (floppy or somekind of
writeable cartridge?).

Is there a PC like that?? And where can I get more info?
I know of the Atari portfolio but it can't stand the rain....


They may collect the data, but making sense of it is another matter.

On sci.crypt I'm a graduate CS major (with strong math background) and
experienced programmer taking a cryptology course.  (<< keyword for
alleged NSA filters).

On sci.skeptic I'm an ex-physics major who's a new-age flake, talking
about silly things like how a person's expectations colors what he
sees.

On talk.religion.newage I'm a physics geek who enjoys squashing
interesting idea with WASP science, although I do write occasional
posts showing a minimal knowledge of Zen, mythology, etc.

I could go on, but I'm sure you see my point.  I'm a single person,
but I react differently on different groups (admittedly, in part
because I'm a contrarian you always shouts "but, on the other hand...").
On top of that, I _loath_ certainty and have taken public positions
in the past for no reason other than to challenge "conventional wisdom".
I wish them luck in figuring out who "I" am based on that information.

(They can probably figure out I'm liberal, with a technical degree
but humanistic interests, from a common thread throughout my posts.
But that describes a fair portion of the users of Internet).


I assume you have evidence that he was responsible for the deaths?

Again, I'd like to see some evidence.

Once again, where's your proof? Suicide is considered a sin by Branch
Davidians.  Also, Koresh said over and over again that he was not going to
commit suicide.  Furthermore, all the cult experts said that he was not
suicidal.  David Thibedeau (sp?), one of the cult members, said that the fire
was started when one of the tanks spraying the tear gas into the facilities
knocked over a lantern.

Evidence please?

I'd like to point out that the Bible says "Do not commit murder." The NKJ
translation mistranslates.  Self-defense was never considered murder.  The
reason why they were stockpiling weapons is because they were afraid the
government would try something.  Their fears were obviously well founded.
--Ray Cote


Have you checked out Adobe Illustrator? There are a few Unix versions
for it available, depending on your platform. I know of two Unix versions:
One for Mach (NeXT) and for Irix (SGI). There may be others, such
as for Sun SparcStation, but I don't know for sure.

ttyl,


If you want a summer without rain, you're in the wrong place. You must not
have been here a whole year yet. Keep the Rain-X handy my friend.

             Thatch


I would hardly consider the BD's to be Christian.  They were acting in
direct contradiction to scripture.  Jesus' Second Coming is something
that everyone will know of.  Jesus also predicted that there will be
false Messiahs who will use His name.  His prophecy has been fulfilled.

I agree with you there.

Me too.  I have already given my life to God.  If God tells me to lay
down my life, it will be to save another life.

Do you judge all Christians by the acts of those who would call
themselves Christian and yet are not?  The BD's contradicted scripture
in their actions.  They were NOT Christian.  Simple as that.  Perhaps
you have read too much into what the media has portrayed.  Ask any
true-believing Christian and you will find that they will deny any
association with the BD's.  Even the 7th Day Adventists have denied any
further ties with this cult, which was what they were.

Do you judge all Muslims by the acts committed by Saddam Hussein, a
supposedly devout Muslim?  I don't.  Saddam is just a dictator using
the religious beliefs of his people to further his own ends.

God be with you,

Malcolm Lee   :)


Being a big fan of the official IBM keyboards, I have a PS/2 keyboard attached
to my clone computer.  I want to know if there is a software utility
out there that can be used to switch the locations of the ctrl and
cap locks keys.  Even better, does IBM or any third party make ctrl
and cap lock key replacements that can be used to visually switch
the keys as well?


Subject: Re: Seeking Christian opinion, all sorts.
From: Rob Steele, rsteele@adam.ll.mit.edu
Date: 5 May 93 06:52:54 GMT

One day a few years ago Franky Schaeffer walked into a Greek Orthodox
Church.  He is now an Orthodox Christian.  So is his mother and if his
father, Fransis Schaeffer, had not passed away he too would have come
into the church.
Franky, like many Americans who have recently found the Orthodox church,
described the experience as finally coming home after a long jouney
through a desert.  You should also read the book "Becoming Orthodox" by
Peter Gillquist.  It describes the long journey of some 2000 weary
Evangelical Protestants to the Orthodox church.   Come taste and see how
good the Lord is.


#
#No doubt this is an old question, but I didn't find the answer in the
#FAQs I could find, so - here goes:
#
#I have a Sunview application that I want to convert to X (OpenLook,
#Motiv, whatever). I remember hearing quite some time ago that there
#are tools to accomplish this task.
#
#	a) is that so?
#	b) are they public domain?
#	c) any good, i.e.
#	d) advantages over reimplementing the interface myself?
#

The simple answer is for you to obtain use XView to do this.  XView is a
one to one replacement for Sunview.  It should already be provided with
you Sun running OpenWindows.   It is also free available as part of the
contrib side of the MIT X11R5 release.

Patrick L. Mahan

--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------


Well, it's been fun. This is my last day at Bellcore and
It will be a while before I have net access again (taking
time off and scheduling Military Schools for the summer
on joint operations, and anything else that looks good).
I have had a blast reading, responding and commenting on
things posted here. My final say is 9mm's are inferior
to .45's errr oh wrong news group. Hopefully I'll be back.
I guess "internet withdrawl" starts around 1pm or so and
considering I never knew inet existed 2 years ago I am
really going to miss it.

OH yea, to the guy who called me this morning about the
"Military issue" boots, good luck, I think you will be
happy with the tankers boots.


So antihistamines can cause weight gain.  NOW they tell me. :-)
Is there any way to find out which do & which don't?  My doctor
obviously is asleep at the wheel.

The original poster mentioned fatigue.  I had that too, but it was
mostly due to the really bizarre dreams I was having -- I wasn't getting
any rest.  My doctor said that was a common reaction.  If astemizole
doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, how does it cause that side
effect?  Any ideas?

--


Only if you have a weeny insurance company. Unless it's
some stupid PA law.  I know that if some jerk hits me while
I'm in a parking lot, if my insruance company doesn't sue
his (or his doesn't immediately say, 'Yes, it's his fault')
I'll sure him myself and tell my insurance company to go to
hell if they raise my rates.


Left hand steering wheel placement was not standard until the 20's in the
US. Driving on the right has been standard since standards came into being.
Interestingly, Chrysler has just begun building right hand drive cars again
for export to Japan.


I think you are suffering from some alignment or color
table or <whatever> problems, if a Color Classic is as fast
as a Quadra rendering to screen.

What screen card you use does of course matter much (built-in
video is almost always faster than NuBus)

Or you measured "scroll entire screen" where the Color Classic
had a VRAM 10" screen in 4-bit color and the Quadra had a
21" 24-bit screen on NuBus :-)

Cheers,

						/ h+


	Where did you get this driver.  Please, please, please !!!!
	I've been waiting months for this.


Sorry, not so -- the changes in sunrise and sunset times are not
quite synchronized.  For example, neither the earliest sunrise nor the
latest sunset comes on the longest day of the year.


Hey Serdar,
           What nationality are you anyway? You are the supreme geek of
geekdom of the usenet. You are laeding a totally useless and futile life on
your computer Mr. Wimpy. You are the epitamy of a coward.I can predict that
you will spend the rest of your useless, wastefull and pitifull life on the
Usenet.  What a wasted life.
********************************************************************
System: fourd.com                                Phone: 617-494-0565
Cute quote:  Being a computer means never having to say you're sorry
********************************************************************


How about a group called talk.that.thomas.parsli.approves?
--
Clinton Administration e-mail addresses | clintonhq@campaign92.org (MCIMail)
    provided as a public service by     | 75300.3115@compuserve.com (CompuServe)
    Jon Edward Shum (jon@mitre.org)     | clintonpz@aol.com (America Online)


[rest deleted...]

You were a liberal arts major, weren'tcha?

Guess you never saw that photo of the smallest logo in the world--
"IBM" made with noble gas atoms (krypton? xenon? I forget the
specifics).

Atoms, trees, electrons are all independently observable and
verifiable. Morals aren't. See the difference?

Tep


THE WHITE HOUSE

                    Office of the Press Secretary
_____________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release                                  April 15, 1993

                            PRESS BRIEFING
                           BY DEE DEE MYERS

                          The Briefing Room

9:45 A.M. EDT

	     Q	  Why was the 10:00 a.m. postponed?

	     MS. MYERS:  Just due to scheduling conflicts.  So as we
put out, the President will meet with the leaders of the national
police organizations at 2:00 p.m. in the Rose Garden, as opposed to
10:00 a.m.  The only other things on his schedule today are:  At
11:00 a.m. he'll meet with General Vessey, who, as you know, is on
his way to Vietnam to continue working on the MIA-POW issue.  At
12:30 p.m. he'll have lunch with the Vice President in the Oval
Office.  And at 2:00 p.m. he'll meet with the police organizations.
Then from 3:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. he'll do his weekly photos with the
various groups.

	     Q	  A photo op with Vessey?

	     MS. MYERS:  There's no coverage on the Vessey meeting.

	     Q	  Why?

	     MS. MYERS:  Why?  It's a closed meeting.

	     Q	  What about the lunch?

	     MS. MYERS:  The lunch?  No, there's no coverage.

	     Q	  Is he meeting with any congress people today?

	     MS. MYERS:  Nothing scheduled.

	     Q	  There are no meetings --

	     MS. MYERS:  There are no congressional meetings today,
no.

	     Q	  Has the President been given any information by the
Pentagon or reached any conclusion about the validity of this report
from Hanoi?  Any instructions to Vessey on how to deal with the
Vietnamese on that subject?

	     MS. MYERS:  Well, clearly, the report is the first order
of business.  It's high on the agenda on something that they'll
discuss.  I think the President and General Vessey will discuss the
parameters of his visit to Vietnam today, but the President hasn't
drawn any conclusions about the report yet.  Certainly, it's
something that he wants General Vessey to talk with the Vietnamese
about first.

	     Q	  Did the President talk with any Republican senators
yesterday about the stimulus package?

	     MS. MYERS:  He spoke with Senator Dole.

	     Q	  How many times?

	     MS. MYERS:  I believe once during the day and once last
night.

	     Q	  What was the outcome of that?

	     MS. MYERS:  They're continuing to work toward some kind
of an agreement on a jobs package.

	     Q	  Is it your impression that Senator Dole is in any
way flexible on this?

	     MS. MYERS:  Well, I think we're hopeful that we're going
to get some kind of jobs package through the Senate, and we'll
continue to work with Senator Dole and others until we reach some
kind of an agreement.

	     Q	  Did they discuss the VAT tax?

	     MS. MYERS:  I don't know if that came up.

	     Q	  Can you check that?

	     MS. MYERS:  Sure.

	     Q	  So what are they -- is the President offering to
scale down his program -- is that what he's trying to do, buy it down
to where Dole will sign on?

	     MS. MYERS:  Well, he's trying to protect as much of it
as he can.  But it's important to him to get some kind of a jobs
package through the Senate and through Congress now.  And as soon as
we reach some conclusions on that, we'll let you know.  But at the
moment, he's continuing to consult with members of Congress
including, obviously, Senator Dole.

	     Q	  Is he talking to anybody else?

	     MS. MYERS:  I don't believe he talked to any other
Republicans yesterday.

	     Q	  Is he talking to anybody today?

	     MS. MYERS:  I don't think anything is scheduled, but I
wouldn't rule it out.

	     Q	  We were led to believe that the President called
Mr. Dole on the subject of Russian aid and that Bob Dole brought the
conversation around to stimulus package.  Is that correct?

	     MS. MYERS:  I think the President has contacted several
people on Russian aid.  I think that it was always expected that the
stimulus package or the jobs package will be part of any conversation
he would have with Senator Dole.  The primary objective of the
conversation was Russian aid.  That was the first order of business,
but it was both.

	     Q	  In the President's mind, are they linked
politically in that if the Republicans continue to reject the
stimulus package, he thinks it will be harder to sell Russian aid to
the American people?  Has he made that argument?

	     MS. MYERS:  I can't talk about specifically what
arguments he might have made.  The President is obviously committed
to both.  He liked to see a jobs package to the American people
first.  But as you know, we outlined the details of additional
Russian aid last night in Tokyo.

	     Q	  But does the President believe that the stimulus
package will make it more difficult to persuade Americans to vote for
Russian -- to accept a vote for Russian aid?

	     MS. MYERS:  I think that the President is going to
continue to work to pass the stimulus package, to pass a jobs
package, and we're still hopeful that we'll get some kind of jobs
package through the Congress.

	     Q	  Is it fair to say that the President is negotiating
now with Dole?

	     MS. MYERS:  He's discussing options with him.

	     Q	  On the stimulus, is it your understanding that over
the break some Democrats, themselves, have left the support that they
had earlier for the package, the stimulus package?

	     MS. MYERS:  I think we still have wide support in the
Senate for the jobs package.

	     Q	  But specifically, that you've lost Democrats other
than Shelby?

	     MS. MYERS:  I don't believe so.  There hasn't been a
vote.

	     Q	  What about Kohl?

	     Q	  Kohl and Feingold?

	     MS. MYERS:  There hasn't been a vote yet.  And we'll
continue to work with senators to try to get a majority to try to
bring the package to a vote, because we believe that a majority of
the members of the United States Senate support the package.

	     Q	  If you're weren't worried about Kohl and Feingold,
why did George mention Milwaukee projects the other day?

	     MS. MYERS:  I think George pointed out a number of
projects in a number of states that stand to be funded, or to lose
funding if this jobs package doesn't pass.

	     Q	  No Democrats.  (Laughter.)

	     MS. MYERS:  I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

	     Q	  Does he plan to talk to Dole again today or any
other Republicans again today?

	     MS. MYERS:  There's nothing specifically scheduled, but
again, I wouldn't rule it out.

	     Q	  Does he plan to put out any more press releases to
any other states today?

	     MS. MYERS:  What we've done is we're in the process of
breaking down the benefits of the jobs package state by state.  I
think it's entirely feasible that as we sort of are able to sum those
up, we'll send out press releases to the various states that suggest
how their states would benefit from this package.

	     Q	  Will you share those with us?

	     MS. MYERS:  Sure.  As we did yesterday.

	     Q	  Do you have copies of the ones you sent --

	     MS. MYERS:  Yes, we made those available yesterday.  And
we certainly can continue to provide them today.

	     Q	  Dee Dee, since yesterday's questions and subsequent
stories about the VAT, what further consideration of this issue has
been given?

	     MS. MYERS:  Nothing's changed since yesterday.  I think
the President commented on it this morning to say only that it was
something he knew was being considered by the task force and that he
has not made a decision on, and I don't think we have anything to add
to that.

	     Q	  But he also said that business and labor groups are
telling him they support it.  Can you tell us --

	     MS. MYERS:  I think that there has been -- I'm not going
to speculate on who supports it.  I think the President said that
there has been some support among business and labor groups.  I don't
think he said he was directly contacted by them.

	     Q	  Are we to take that to mean that the administration
has sounded out business and labor groups on this --

	     MS. MYERS:  I think there's been plenty of public
discourse on this over the years and even recently, but I don't think
I want to add to that.

	     Q	  In February, though, the President said that this
was something to be considered 10 or 15 years down the road.  What
has happened between then and now to cause this administration to
change its mind?

	     MS. MYERS:  I think as we said yesterday, it is
something that the working groups are looking at.  They're
considering a wide variety of options on everything from funding to
specific options that will be covered by the President's health care
plan.  The President has not taken it up yet, has not made a decision
on it.  And beyond that, I don't have anything to add.

	     Q	  You haven't answered the question.  It wasn't being
considered by anyone in the White House after the President's
comments in February, and George reaffirmed that in a briefing.

	     Q	  And then suddenly --

	     Q	  What happened?

	     MS. MYERS:  The working groups, as we have said
throughout, we instructed to consider a wide variety of options
across-the-board.  And one of the things that has been talked about
and that they are clearly considering is some kind of a value-added
tax.

	     Q	  But the President himself took this off the table,
Dee Dee, and suddenly it reappears.  And this goes to the credibility
of this administration in a way.  What has happened in the meantime?

	     MS. MYERS:  The President has not looked at this, it
hasn't been presented to him, again, yet.  The working groups are
looking at it, as they're looking at a wide variety of options, and
no decisions have been made.

	     Q	  And it raises the question of how independently the
task force is working.

	     MS. MYERS:  The task force was instructed to consider
all options, and they've taken that mandate seriously and they're
considering all options.

	     Q	  But that's not the impression that the President
left in February.  The impression he left was that this was something
that was long-range, to be looked at 10, 15 years down the road.  The
clear implication of his remarks was that this was something that was
not on the table, not an option.

	     Q	  "If it changes I'll tell you."

	     Q	  Bring him on.

	     Q	  And you repeatedly referred to the President's
remarks, telling us that those were still in operation.

	     MS. MYERS:  It's changed, and we told you.  (Laughter.)

	     Q	  But that's what Alice Rivlin's comments and Donna
Shalala comments were about.  I mean, that seemed like an
orchestrated effort because you have two independent Cabinet officers
--

	     MS. MYERS:  I wouldn't -- no, Alice Rivlin's not a
Cabinet member, first of all.  Second of all, it was not
orchestrated, but clearly, they both said yesterday and in the last
couple of days that it's something that's being looked at.  We
confirmed that yesterday.  And I don't have anything to add to that.

	     Q	  Is it because he has very few options?

	     Q	  Is this something that it will be incumbent upon
the task force to convince the President about?  In other words, has
the President himself personally ruled it out and it's now up to the
task force to convince him to put it back on the table?  Or is it, in
fact, back on the table, having been placed there by discussions with
the President?

	     MS. MYERS:  It is not the working group's mission at
this point to convince the President of anything.  It is their
mission to put before him his options and to explain the benefits and
the costs and the basic pros and cons of each of those options.  I
think that they will certainly present the VAT to him in that
context, and at this point he's not -- that presentation has not been
made, but it's something that he will hear and he has not made a
decision on.

	     Q	  They will present it to him as one of his options,
though he specifically ruled it out?

	     MS. MYERS:  Correct.

	     Q	  Dee Dee, is this more than a trial balloon?  Is
this a serious consideration that the working groups are giving to
this form of taxation?

	     MS. MYERS:  It's simply a statement of fact.  The
working groups are considering a wide variety of options on a number
of issues relating to health care reform.  One of the options that
they're looking at is the VAT.

	     Q	  Dee Dee, when the working groups were examining
this possibility, was this on the table during the same time period
that you were telling us that it was not?

	     MS. MYERS:  I don't know what the specific timing of
their drafting of options is.  I don't know.

	     Q	  Who was telling you that it was not under
consideration?

	     MS. MYERS:  I was referring back to the President's
comments.

	     Q	  Have they discovered that the sin taxes won't raise
enough money to fund the core benefit package?

	     MS. MYERS:  No, there's no decisions that have been made
on how to pay for the health care plan.

	     Q	  I'm asking whether the projections --

	     MS. MYERS:  There's a number of options depending on how
the plan is structured.  You can't decide how much the plan is going
to cost until you decide what the plan is going to look like.  And so
you can't discuss what financing options have been ruled in our out
until you know.

	     Q	  Dee Dee, we've been told that they have a computer
models on a number of possible packages.

	     MS. MYERS:  Correct.

	     Q	  The question is whether they have now determined
whether sin taxes would not produce enough money for even the barest
minimum package.  That is not a very difficult computation.

	     MS. MYERS:  It is a question that you know that we're
not going to answer until -- there's a number of options being
considered.  It depends on how the package is structured.  The exact
details of the package and the financing mechanisms used to pay for
them are all among the decisions that have yet to be made.

	     Q	  And when the President has been meeting with health
care -- his health care advisors, which we are told he has been doing
--

	     MS. MYERS:  Correct.

	     Q	     they have never once said to him, these are your
funding options, including the VAT?  He has never heard the word VAT
in his --

	     MS. MYERS:    I am not going to comment on the specific
nature of the daily -- they're not daily, but the quasi-regular
briefings.

	     Q	  Well, you have.

	     MS. MYERS:  I have not, other than to say that he's not
considered the VAT.  And I think that is a true statement.

	     Q	  No, but you said that it has not been presented to
him as an option.

	     MS. MYERS:  Correct.

	     Q	  That doesn't mean he hasn't heard about it.

	     MS. MYERS:  I'm not going to get into the details of
what's discussed.  I think that statement stands for itself.

	     Q	     specific, Dee Dee.  When you say he hasn't
looked at it, do you mean that he hasn't looked at it in terms of
paying for medical coverage, or hasn't looked at it in general?
Because back in Chilicothe he was very specific in defining how it
works, what the advantages are, the whole thing.  It sounds like --

	     MS. MYERS:  But that was -- I think in Chilicothe, if
you go back to his remarks there, it was a broader philosophical
discussion of the tax structure.  And I think the comments were
generally in reference to the overall economic plan.  But clearly,
it's something that he's thought about in the broad context.  I mean,
that was clear in Chilicothe.  What I'm saying is that in the process
of the working groups it's something that he hasn't considered yet.
It's something that the working groups will present to him among the
number of options, and that no decisions have been made.  And I'm not
going to comment any further on the details of the meetings where
health care issues are being discussed.

	     Q	  It's your statement from this podium that no
discussion of this has taken place.  You say that no option -- that
the option has not been presented to him.

	     MS. MYERS:  That is correct.

	     Q	  Do you stand by -- does the White House still stand
by George's statement in March that this will not be in the proposal?

	     MS. MYERS:  No decisions have been made.  We have
nothing to add to what's already been said.

	     Q	  Let me follow up here.  Do you stand by what Rivlin
said yesterday, that if any kind of VAT were to be used or
considered, that other changes to the tax code would have to be made
so that it would be less regressive?

	     MS. MYERS:  I'm not going to comment any further on what
might happen if.

	     Q	  But do you stand by the previous conversations in
February that if there were to be a VAT, I think the President said
you'd exclude food and energy --

	     MS. MYERS:  I'm not going to comment on the specific
structure of a decision that hasn't been made.

	     Q	  Was the President aware prior to Donna Shalala's
comments yesterday that this was under consideration by the working
groups?

	     MS. MYERS:  I don't know specifically what --

	     Q	  Could you check for us, because that's a real
important credibility question?

	     MS. MYERS:  Sure.

	     Q	  Since the task force was brought together this
issue has been discussed, at the beginning and throughout, as one
fairly painless way to raise a lot of money.  Were you all kept in
the dark?  Was the Press Office kept in the dark over the past month
and a half when you've been denying that a VAT tax would be
considered that it was actually on the table over there as an option?

	     MS. MYERS:  I think we've said all that we have to say.
It is something the working groups are looking at.  The President has
not made a decision about it yet.  And beyond that, I have nothing to
add.

	     Q	  Well, sorry, Dee Dee, there are still a couple of
questions that we are going to have to ask because we have a problem
with credibility here -- yours primarily.  What we're asking is, if
you all were not told at all that this thing was being considered
while you were coming out here and telling us that it was not, or if
it's a case that you were coming out here and deliberately misleading
us.

	     MS. MYERS:  I don't believe that anyone has ever come
out here and deliberately misled you from this podium -- ever --ever.

	     Q	  Has anyone tried to shade it a little bit to
indicate something -- has anybody told anybody to come out --

	     MS. MYERS:  We're not trying to shade answers or
deliberately mislead anybody.  I've said what I have to say about
this issue.

	     Q	  All we were trying to find out --

	     MS. MYERS:  I understand what you're trying to find out
and I've given you the answers, Helen.

	     Q	  We're trying to find out what changed -- what made
it an option again.  That's the --

	     MS. MYERS:  The working groups were given a broad
mandate to investigate all options, and they are doing that.

	     Q	  Yes, but it wasn't an option before.  How can you
investigate it if the President has taken it off the table?

	     MS. MYERS:  It is something that they're obviously
considering and the President has not made a decision on.

	     Q	  Yes, but he took it off the table in February.

	     MS. MYERS:  Working groups are considering it.  They'll
present it to the President at some point and he'll make a decision.

	     Q	  Why would they consider it if he has taken it off
the table?

	     MS. MYERS:  It's clearly on the table.

	     Q	  Yes, but he took it off the table.  Did he change
his mind?

	     MS. MYERS:  It's back on the table, Bill.

	     Q	  Did he change his mind?

	     MS. MYERS:  He said this morning that he hasn't made a
decision about it.  He obviously knows that it's on the table.  It's
something that he will look at at some and when we have a decision on
this we'll let you know.

	     Q	  So he must have changed his mind, right?

	     MS. MYERS:  At some point it will be looked at.  I mean,
--

	     Q	  Dee Dee, there's like two options -- either he
changed his mind or the working groups think they're authority
exceeds the President's.

	     MS. MYERS:  The working groups were given a broad
mandate to look at all options; they've done that.

	     Q	  Are you going to put out his income tax?

	     MS. MYERS:  Yes, there will be something available on
his income tax probably later this afternoon.  His return will be
available.

	     Q	  Will there be any kind of briefing to go through
it?

	     MS. MYERS:  No, nothing's planned.  I think someone will
be available, probably not in a briefing setting, but to walk you
through the questions.

	     Q	  We're used to be walked line-by-line through the
presidential tax forms.

	     MS. MYERS:  I've seen those briefings.  (Laughter.)

	     Q	  Could we have one?

	     MS. MYERS:   No, I don't think there will be any kind of
a formal briefing, but there will be somebody available to answer
your questions about it.

	     Q	  Did they file a joint form?

	     MS. MYERS:  Yes.

	     Q	  When did he file it?

	     MS. MYERS:  I believe it's being filed today.

	     Q	  Dee Dee, is there going to be a backgrounder for
Miyazawa?

	     MS. MYERS:  No, there will be a readout after the
meeting.

	     Q	  No backgrounder today?

	     MS. MYERS:  No backgrounder today.

	     Q	  This is complicated stuff.  We need help.
(Laughter.)

	     MS. MYERS:  We can't give you taxes and Miyazawa all in
one day, it's too confusing.  (Laughter.)

	     Q	  Vance and Owen have opened the doors on the use of
force in Bosnia.   They've both said that, A, they never ruled it
out, and B, it might be necessary now.  Does that influence your
thinking on whether or not to change your approach?

	     MS. MYERS:  There's been no change in our policy towards
Bosnia.  We have always said that we'd consider --

	     Q	  But does that impact upon your decision?  Are they
people whose opinions would carry weight with you?

	     MS. MYERS:  They're people whose opinions carry weight
certainly.  I mean, the President supports the process that they've
initiated.  But there's been no change in our policy for Bosnia,
although we're considering a number of options right now.  If the
Serbs don't come back to the negotiating table, if they don't sign on
to some kind of an agreement, we will consider additional options,
which we've been saying regularly.

	     Q	  One follow-up question then?  We cannot get a
straight answer from anyone in the administration.  Why do you not
set a deadline for the Serbs?  Can you tell us the strategic or
tactical reasons for not giving them a deadline to come to the table?

	     MS. MYERS:  We're continuing to put pressure on them
every day.

	     Q	  Which doesn't work so --

	     MS. MYERS:  Well, we think it is having some effect.
We're going to continue to tighten sanctions.  As you know, we
support the omnibus resolution.  We expect that to come to a vote on
the 26th.

	     Q	  You say it's having an effect -- can you give us
any documentation?

	     MS. MYERS:  I'd be happy to provide somebody to talk to
you about the impact of the sanctions and things like that.

	     Q	  There's been no -- you have not been able to
provide anybody who can tell us that the sanctions have had any
effect in Bosnia.  Serbia, yes; in Bosnia, no.

	     MS. MYERS:  I think that they've had effect in Serbia
and we think they've had some effect in Bosnia.  And again, I'll be
happy to provide somebody to walk you through the details of that, if
you'd like.

	     Q	  We would like to hear from someone who can show us
what the effect has been in Bosnia.  We had the briefing on all of
the terrible things that are happening in Belgrade, but we haven't
seen anything that indicates an impact on the fighting.  Can you
provide something along those lines?

	     MS. MYERS:  I will see what I can get you.

	     Q	  On the extra Russian aid that Christopher announced
this morning -- where is that money coming from?

	     MS. MYERS:  We'll have to work with Congress on the
details of that package.

	     Q	  So that would be new money that you would hope to
get?

	     MS. MYERS:    Yes, that's new money, in addition to the
$1.6 billion announced in Vancouver.  So I assume that you all have
seen the $1.8-billion package that was announced this morning in
Tokyo by Secretary Christopher.

	     Q	  Isn't there a concern, though, about offering
something which you have to get in Congress?  I mean, that was the
concern with Vancouver; you didn't want to do that.

	     MS. MYERS:  The concern with Vancouver was to do
something immediately, which required money that was already approved
in the Fiscal '93 budget.  What we're looking at now is a little bit
longer-term plan to build on top of the $1.6 billion that we
announced in Vancouver.  This clearly will require congressional
approval, or some of it will anyway, and we're going to continue to
work with Congress to make that happen.

	     Q	  To what extent has that been vetted or agreed to by
Congress?

	     MS. MYERS:  The President has had a number of
conversations with members and will continue to work with them as
this process moves forward.

	     Q	  Was Christopher able to put this package out with a
fair degree of understanding that you will be able to get it through
Congress?

	     MS. MYERS:  It was created in consultation with
Congress.

	     Q	  In meeting with the law enforcement officials, is
that -- does that have a set speech and a goal?  A direction?

	     MS. MYERS:  Yes, the President will talk about -- and
the law enforcement organizations are endorsing the President's jobs
package.  They believe particularly the summer jobs package will help
give kids something to do.

	     Q	  Who are they?

	     MS. MYERS:  It's members or leadership from three
organizations:  NAPO, which is the National Association of Police
Organizations; IBPO, which is the International Brotherhood of Police
Organizations, I believe; and IUPA, which is the International Union
of Police Associations.

	     Q	  Will the FBI chief be there?

	     MS. MYERS:  The FBI chief?  No.

	     Q	  Or any other federal law enforcement officials?

	     MS. MYERS:  No, it will be the President and these
national law enforcement organization leaders.

	     Q	  Does the $1.8 billion announced today include the
$400 million that's in the FY '94 budget for disarmament?

	     MS. MYERS:  No.  The Nunn-Lugar money is separate.

	     Q	  So this would be the $700 million that's in the
budget already, plus another $1.1 billion?

	     MS. MYERS:  I believe all of this is on top of the $700
million already in the budget.

	     Q	  Is this going to be part of the supplemental or
Fiscal '94 --

	     MS. MYERS:  We'll work with Congress on the exact
funding mechanism -- on exactly how this will be paid for.

	     Q	  This $1.8 billion on top of --

	     MS. MYERS:  On top of $700 million -- on top of the $400
million Nunn-Lugar money we announced earlier.

	     Q	  And this is what prompted the President to call Bob
Dole -- it was on this tranche, not on the previous money he was
calling Bob Dole?

	     MS. MYERS:  Correct.

	     Q	  Is there a briefing on Miyazawa?

	     MS. MYERS:  There will be a readout after the meeting
with Miyazawa.  Tomorrow.

	     Q	  Dee Dee, on a totally unrelated matter, some
Republicans who are active in the U.S. Chamber of Commerce are
complaining about this new cozy relationship between the White House
and the Chamber of Commerce.  There are -- the town hall meeting the
other night, the satellite and all of this relationship.
Does the White House feel that you're getting too close to these
Chambers of Commerce?

	     MS. MYERS:  That's an interesting charge.  (Laughter.)
After how many years of Democrats being accused of not paying any
attention to the Chambers, now there are those who would accuse us of
being too close.  I think that's interesting.  But no, we're thrilled
by the support we've received from the national Chamber and local
Chambers across the country and we'll continue to work with them on
this and other initiatives.

	     Q	  What's the status of the President thinking about
going to this Democratic retreat?

	     MS. MYERS:  It's on his calendar.  I think he'll almost
certainly go.

	     Q	  All three days?

	     MS. MYERS:  We haven't figured out exactly when he'll be
there yet.

	     Q	  Is it open to coverage?

	     MS. MYERS:  No, I believe the whole thing is closed.

	     Q	  Is he going to have any kind of address, statement,
anything at all on the gay rights march on the 25th?

	     MS. MYERS:  We're still looking at that.  We haven't
made a final decision about how we'll -- who will make a statement or
what --

	     Q	  Any meetings scheduled with any of the leaders?

	     MS. MYERS:  Nothing is scheduled, but I wouldn't rule it
out.

	     Q	  What about an AIDS czar?

	     MS. MYERS:  It's coming.

	     Q	  Anything on the weekend?

	     Q	  There's been a suggestion that he's going to this
retreat to avoid having to participate in the gay rights -- or appear
or have any involvement in the gay rights march.

	     MS. MYERS:  No, I think this is something he's been
discussing for a long time -- appearing at the Senate Democratic
retreat.

	     Q	  The weekend?

	     MS. MYERS:  Weekend?  Don't know -- the only thing on
right now is the radio address on Saturday.

	     Q	  Any travel plans?

	     MS. MYERS:  If it changes -- none right now.

	     Q	  He's not going to be off campaigning for his
stimulus package?

	     MS. MYERS:  No specific plans right now.

	     Q	  What about mid-week?  Anything likely?

	     MS. MYERS:  It's possible.  Yes, I think it's likely
that we'll travel next week -- certainly the weekend.

	     Q	  Has he called Thurmond about his daughter?

	     MS. MYERS:  I don't know.  I'll check.

	     Q	  Going to name a drug czar this weekend?

	     MS. MYERS:  This weekend?  I don't believe so.

	     Q	  And the radio address on Saturday -- is that going
to be focused on the stimulus package?

	     MS. MYERS:  I'm sure it will.

	     THE PRESS:  Thank you.


Does XDM work with DECnet? I have an Ultrix machine running both TCP/IP
and DECnet. I have a number of X-terminals hanging off the Ultrix host also
running TCP/IP and DECnet. Presently I am using XDM for the login procedure
on the X-terminals using TCP/IP. Since XDM is basically just an X-windows
client, shouldn't I be able to run XDM on the DECnet protocol tower as well?


Actually, I'm still trying to understand the self-justifying rationale
behind the recent murder of Ian Feinberg (?) in Gaza.


You are correct. See today's (4/21) Washington Post. The gas the
FBI used is most certainly fatal in high concentrations. Of course,
non-toxic tear gas is an oxymoron; the whole point of tear gas is
that it is toxic, and its toxic effects cause people to seek
fresh air.


Didn't one of the early jet fighters have these?
I also think the germans did some work on these in WWII.

A lot of this was also done by the military...

Weren't the first microwave landing systems from WWII too?

Egad! I'm disagreeing with Mary Shafer!


Title 18, 241 and/or 242 seem to apply.  241 is conspiracy (two or
more persons) against rights of citizens.  242 is deprivation of
rights under color of law.  Both call for up to life in prison if
death occurs.  Reno, Bentsen, and Clinton are probably all principals
to the crime (as they are responsible for authorized actions on the
part of their subordinates).

You forgot one detail, they should be turned over to the Texas
authorities for trial, as the crime was committed there (Article 4,
section 2).

--
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931


So that still leaves the door totally open for Khomeini, Hussein
et rest. They could still be considered true Muslims, and you can't
judge them, because this is something between God and the person.

You have to apply your rule as well with atheists/agnostics, you
don't know their belief, this is something between them and God.

So why the hoopla about Khomeini not being a real Muslim, and the
hoopla about atheists being not real human beings?

Cheers,
Kent


I was reading Popular Science this morning and was surprised by an ad in
the back.  I know that a lot of the ads in the back of PS are fringe
science or questionablely legal, but this one really grabbed my attention.
It was from a company name "Personal Missle, Inc." or something like that.

Anyhow, the ad stated that they'd sell rockets that were up to 20' in length
and engines of sizes "F" to "M".  They also said that some rockets will
reach 50,000 feet.

Now, aside from the obvious dangers to any amateur rocketeer using one
of these beasts, isn't this illegal?  I can't imagine the FAA allowing
people to shoot rockets up through the flight levels of passenger planes.
Not to even mention the problem of locating a rocket when it comes down.

And no, I'm not going to even think of buying one.  I'm not that crazy.

-Paul "mine'll do 50,000 feet and carries 50 pounds of dynamite" Dokas


misc.entrepreneurs,misc.wanted,pnw.forsale,uw.pc.ibm,seattle.forsale,uw.
.forsale,misc.forsale,
misc.forsale.computers.d,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone,misc.forsale.co
omputers.other,
Distribution: world
From:yuri@atmos.washington.edu
Reply-To: yuri@atmos.washington.edu
Organization:
Subject: 100 simms and 100 sipps  1MB needed
Keywords:

	I need  100 simms and 100 sipps 1MB, but price should be around $17-20/piece.
I am waiting for an offer.


You know, I never really appreciated them before!


Yes. Reasonable parallels. (though I don't think Russia ever claimed to be
Communist)

I must protest your "...in a Communist country". How do you know?
There haven't been any, and are unlikely to ever be any. In some Socialist
dictatorships, you can't, whilst in some socialist democracies
(such as France or Australia)
you can. Of course, some people may disagree about France & Australia being
socialist...

Yet.

In some circumstances. I was at a public meeting last night (in the USA), where
a protester, who was very nice and calm, and just said before the
speaker started to beware of his opinions, was forced out of the meeting by
two armed policemen.

There are a lot of things that one cannot do in the USA. You may not
notice them, but as an Australian visitor, I notice them.

Yes, we are lucky at the moment. I hope that is still true in
a few years time. Because it didn't just happen...it required concious
effort.

Of course don't over react --- but don't under react.

Andrew.
Disclaimer: All my opinions are my own, and do not represent the society
for the conservation of momentum or any other group. I hope I don't lose
my student Visa as a result of these opinions..

--


If Clipper comes to cellular phones along with legal proscriptions against
using other cipher systems on these phones, a new and potentially dangerous
class of crime is created.

Criminals who very badly want inscrutable tactical communications (specifically
the terrorists and drug dealers who proponents of key escrow cite as threats)
will be highly motivated to steal the cipher phone of a legitimate user, and
to kill this person or hold them hostage so discovery of compromise of the
device will be delayed.

Once a suitable collection of devices is stolen, criminals can communicate
with impunity (assuming the cipher system carries no trapdoors apart from
key escrow) until and unless the compromise is discovered by some other means.

Because life-is-cheap criminals are currently willing to kill people to steal
very large and conspicuous property (luxury cars), it is reasonable to assume
that they will be willing to kill people to steal small and inconspicuous
property (a cipher cellular phone).  Just as we have seen in the past with
"blue box" technology, and in the present with modified cellular phones,
we can expect to see among high-stakes criminals a lucrative market for
stolen cipher phones which can be used for a few days.  The high-stakes
criminals will pay the life-is-cheap types substantial amounts for stolen
instruments.

Because a person is typically discovered as missing or dead in a few days,
a stolen instrument will be usable for only a few days.  There will be a
continuing demand for fresh phones: fresh bodies.

In other words, Clipper and similar systems have the potential to turn a
current inconvenience to law enforcement into a direct, vicious, and
persistent threat to the general public.

On the other hand, if a criminal were to apply some arbitrary cipher to a
device in a mostly non-ciphered network, the communication will at least
stand out as being unusual, and perhaps worthy of other means of investigation.

Finally, because there is essentially no possibility of intercepting in
realtime the scrutable content of communications between stolen instruments,
there will exist strong motivation to record and archive _all_ communications
in the network for ex-post-facto scrutiny (once some criminal act is discovered,
and the instruments involved have been identified).  While recording and
archiving may not be feasible for wireline networks, it is probably feasible
across the more limited bandwidth of radio networks.  The existence of these
recordings could open up vast potential for abuse.


I don't have the wiretap statute handy.  But here's what the law says
on pen registers.  This is all from Title 18 of the U.S. Code.  Note
how vague S. 3125(a)(1)(B) is....  I haven't had a chance to check
out 50 U.S.C. 1801 yet.

----

18 USC  S. 3121 Pen Registers (as of 4/93)

S. 3121. General prohibition on  pen register  and trap and trace device
use; exception

   (a) In general. Except as provided in this section, no person may
install or use a  pen register  or a trap and trace device without first
obtaining a court order under section 3123 of this title or under the
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.).

.....

S. 3125.  Emergency  pen register  and trap and trace device
installation

   (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter , any
investigative or law enforcement officer, specially designated by the
Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the Associate Attorney
General, any Assistant Attorney General, any acting Assistant Attorney
General, or any Deputy Assistant Attorney General, or by the principal
prosecuting attorney of any State or subdivision thereof acting pursuant
to a statute of that State, who reasonably determines that--

   (1) an emergency situation exists that involves--

   (A) immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury to any person;
or

   (B) conspiratorial activities characteristic of organized crime,

   that requires the installation and use of a  pen register  or a trap
and trace device before an order authorizing such installation and use
can, with due diligence, be obtained, and

   (2) there are grounds upon which an order could be entered under this
chapter to authorize such installation and use "may have installed and
use a  pen register  or trap and trace device if, within forty-eight
hours after the installation has occurred, or begins to occur, an order
approving the installation or use is issued in accordance with section
3123 of this title."

   (b) In the absence of an authorizing order, such use shall
immediately terminate when the information sought is obtained, when the
application for the order is denied or when forty-eight hours have
lapsed since the installation of the  pen register  or trap and trace
device, whichever is earlier.


*Paranoia part deleted.*


No, that's not how it works.

This may be through a different mechanism.

Tenderizing beef involves sprinking or marinading it in papain, an enzyme.
"Meat tenderizer" packets might contain papain and MSG and seasonings, but
MSG doesn't act as a tenderizer.


I agree entirely.  Speaking as an atheist (heterosexual, for what it's
worth), this is one of the least attractive parts of some varieties of
Christianity.  Although I'm sure it's possible to argue theologically
that we shouldn't make analogies between discrimination on the basis
of sex and race and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation,
morally the case looks unanswerable (for those outside religion): the
three forms _are_ analogous; we shouldn't discriminate on the basis of
sex, race or sexual orientation.

I found the moderator's FAQs on the subject instructive, and recommend
everyone to read them.

There seem to be three different levels of acceptance:

1) Regard homosexual orientation as a sin (or evil, whatever)
2) Regard homosexual behaviour as a sin, but accept orientation
(though presumably orientation is unfortunate) and dislike people who
indulge
3) As 2, but "love the sinner"
4) Accept homosexuality altogether.

My experience is that 3 is the most common attitude (I imagine 1 and 2
are limited to a few fundamentalist sects).

I suppose I can go along with 3, except that I have this feeling that
a 14--15 year old living in a community with this attitude, on
discovering that they were more attracted to members of the same sex,
would not feel the love of the community, but would rather feel the
pressure not to exhibit their feelings.  I'm not saying that the
community (in particular the parents) would not love the child, but I
suspect the child would not feel loved.


I hope you realize how trivial it is to manufacture these compounds.  Given
about $10k in lab equipment and chemicals (which are commercially available)
and given the knowledge that I have (graduating BS, Ch, 1993) I could
synthesize enough of these compounds to make a serious dent in the population
of several major US cities.  As also noted, the knowledge is there for
the production of nuclear weapons.  It's not even that restricted.  The
only thing is the expense.

Now I'm not going around making these things, but it's not 'cause of any
law; I simply don't get any marginal benefit out of killing anyone.  Any
law you enact in this respect is only going to give you the ability to
add a charge against someone who does make and use said weapons.  In the
case of chemical agents, I seriously doubt that you would even know that
someone had set up a lab until after the weapons had been used.

Part of the trouble with the chemical-weapons ban treaty between the US
and the USSR is that many of the precursors to chemical weapons such as
GB and Sarin, etc., is that they have very valid commercial uses, and
it is very easy to divert those precursors to chemical weapons manufacture
without anyone knowing about it.


:It occurs to me that if they get a wiretap order on you, and the escrow
:houses release your code to the cops, your code is now no longer secure.

A very good point!

:It's in the hands of cops, and while I am sure most of the time they are
:good, their security will not be as good as the escrow houses.

Why should we expect the cops to be honest!  They're underpaid
for the risks they face every day.  The media dumps on the all
the time and blames them for all sorts of discrimination,
brutality....  How can we expect them to be more than human?

Besides there are lots of cases of police abuses ranging from
protection scams to outright robbery (when I worked in D.C. there
was a breakin at a local Radio Shack and the alarm company heard the
cops responding to the call over the audio pickup in the store:-).

:What this effectively means is that if they perform a wiretap on you,
:at the end of the wiretap, they should be obligated to inform you that
:a tap was performed, and replace (for free) the clipper chip in your
:cellular phone so that it is once again a code known only to the
:escrow houses.

Then you would know that Big Brother had been listening.  Does he
really want to let you know?

:Do the police normally reveal every tap they do even if no charges are
:laid?   In many ways, it would be a positive step if they had to.
:Judges set time limits on warrants, I assume.  At the end of the time
:limit they should have to renew or replace your chip.

:That's if we go with this scheme, which I am not sure I agree with.

I'm completely against anything that makes it easier for the
government to encroach on the rights of individuals.  The
founders of this country spent a lot of effort limiting the power
of the government and specifying exactly what the governments
rights were (and this didn't include a gov't spy in every
bedroom).  IMHO, there are entirely too many things going on
today designed to preserve the government organism at the expense
of individuals.  Look around and reread 1984 and many early
Heinlein books.  Aren't there many parallels between the thought
police (can you spell Waco Texas?), and Heinlein's ``Crazy Years''?

Bill


Who knows... I just quoted what was "written" in SCSI Director...

I've tried calling Transoft Corp about this and have either gotten the
response "Huh?" to "Yep" to "Nah"... You would expect that a damaging state-
ment like this would have _some_ "data" to back it up...

Anyone want Transoft's phone number?


In-Reply-To: <20APR199312262902@rigel.tamu.edu> lmp8913@rigel.tamu.edu (PRESTON, LISA M)


This rumor didn't happen to appear on April 1st?

If this DigiKey rep was serious, I think I will buy my parts elsewhere.
If that is the way they do business, you cannot trust them.


  Game two of the Detroit - Toronto series will be a rougher game.  I believe
that Clark will be coming out hitting on all cylindars.  I believe that Probert
will take exception to this and a fight between Clark and Probert will result.
  I know this sounds kind of ridiculous, but I know game two Toronto will come
out hitting.
  Any takers on this issue?


Hello,

We are having troubles using the PC/TCP onpredir (printer redirection program
with lpr support) with the Windows print manager. The onpredir simply waits
an do only the capture till the end of the Windows session, while after some
printer inactivity  it should start the printing.
 Does anybody uses this two programs together?


Gun clubs:
If you are a member you CAN borrow weapons....(Suprised??)
You are supposed to train with a .22 for the 6 months, THEN
you can start with anything bigger.

Drivers licence:
Forgot that USA is THE land of cars.....
Getting one in Scandinavia (and northern europe) is not easy.
Average time is about 20 hours of training, and the cost is rather......
But we think this is acceptable because a car is NOT a toy, and
bad drivers tend to hurt OTHERS.
(If you are really bad, you WON'T get a lincence!)

Abuse by the goverment:
This seems to be one of the main problems; Any harder gun-control
would just be abused by the goverment.(!)
Either some of you are a little paranoid (no offence...) OR you should
get a new goverment. (You do have elections??)

Guns 'n Criminals:
MOST weapons used by criminals today are stolen.
Known criminals can NOT buy weapons, that's one of the points of gun control.
And because gun control are strict in WHOLE scandinavia (and most of europe),
we dont have any PROBLEM with smuggled guns.

Mixing weapons and things that can be use as one:
What I meant was that cars CAN kill, but they are not GUNS!
Someone said that if we 'ban' guns we'd have to ban cars to, because they 'kill' to...
I don't think we should argue on this one..... ;)

The issue (I hope..):
I think we all agree that the criminals are the main problem.
Guns are not a problem, but the way they are used is.... (and what are they for??)

I think this discusion is interesting when you think of (ex)Jugoslavia:
They should all have weapons, it's their rigth to have them, and if they use them
to kill other (Innocent) people the problem is humans, not guns.

If 50% of ALL murders was done with axes, would you impose some regulations on them
or just say that they are ment to be used at trees, and that the axe is not a problem,
it's the 'axer' ??
(An example, don't flame me just because not exactly 50% are killed by guns...)

Think about the situation in Los Angeles where people are buying guns to protect
themselves. Is this a good situation ?? Is it the rigth way to deal with the problem ??

If everybody buys guns to protect themselves from criminals (and their neighbor who have
guns) what do you think will happen ?? (I mean if everybody had a gun in USA)

Don't flame the Englishmen because of Northern Irland, they have gun control that works
(in England) and fonds from USA are one of the reasons why IRA can bomb innocents...
(Something about throwing stones in glass houses...)
Don't flame them because of what to (three?) children did either.
(Can an Jugoslav have an oppinion on guns or even peace??) (YES!)

(My numbers about crime rates after restrictions on shot-guns are from the police
and the Statistisk Sentralbyraa) (understood that one Sorenson??)

LAST WORD:
Responsible gun owners are not a problem, but they will be affected if you want to protect
your citicens.

	This is not a .signature.
	It's merely a computergenerated text to waste bandwith
	and to bring down the evil Internet.


	Yeah, I'm also curious as to why you felt compelled to remind us of the
guy's race. BTW, I don't mean to imply that you're clueless or anything, but
the statement was *hardly* "benign".
--


The Casio 7500 lectric diary has a 3-wire serial interface with param
setting like RS232, for which one get a magic but expensive cable to
connect to a PC. Does anyone know the spec of this interface, e.g., it
needs inverting and boosting from CMOS signals to match RS232 lines?


Two LH Research SM11-1 power supplies (series SM10).

1000W, 5V, 200A (currently wired for 115VAC)

Control lines: +/- sense, on/off, pwr. fail, high/lo margin, current monitor

(List price from LH Research $824.00 each, qty. 1-9)

Asking $350.00 for the pair obo


	When I'm riding my 900RR, my goodies are already up
	against the tank, because the design of the Corbin seat
	tends to move you forward.

	Wouldn't the major danger to one's cajones be due to
	accelerating into and then being stopped by the tank?  If
	you're already there, there wouldn't be an impact
	problem, would there?

				- Michael -


Is there such a thing as the new '94 Eagle Talon? I heard from a freind that
the new '94 Talons have been released? Is this true and if so what are the
differences between the '93 and '94? Any opinions? I would appreciate any
replies and I would also prefer E-mail, thanks!


I just purchased The Norton Desktop for windows, and I also have
Norton Utilities.  When I installed NDW, it wanted to rem out the line
that installed EP (EP /ON) and the command to invoke the Image utility.
It replaced the Image command with a new image command that invokes the
version of Image that came with NDW.  This makes sense, as presumably the
Image version with NDW is newer than the one with NU.  It did not, however,
install smartcan in the autoexec.  Now two questions:
   1:  Will NU use the image data saved by the newer version of image invoked.
       i.e. Are the two version of Image compatable?
   2:  Will erase protect use the info from smartcan, and vice versa?
       I use both dos and windows, and I want to make sure that when I
       erase files in either environment, they are going to be protected.

From the experiments I have run, The two programs (Erase Protect and
smart Erase) don't use each others info.
I currently have both EP and smartcan loading within my autoexec, and
I don't see any conflicts;

FYI :  Norton Desktop for Windows version 2.2
       Norton Util's version 6


Now, I am jumping into the middle of this thread so I may not know
what y'all been talking about, but I have a few comments:

There are a number of other factors that are very important, the three
biggest being air velocity, air momentum and shock waves.
Velocity stacks have been used for years and are now being used inside
of stock airboxes on a number of bikes.  At a tuned engine rpm, the
stacks can greatly increase the speed, and thus momentum of the air
rushing in.
Air momentum is critical in getting good air intake: the momentum of
the air stack outside the combustion chamber will force its way inside
long after the piston has begun its compressive up-stroke.
Shock waves are used to induce air intake and to prevent fresh air from
escaping out the exzhaust ports.  Shock waves are the product of expansion
chambers or any other means of presenting a 'wall' (opening or closing)
to the air in motion.  Beyond this I am lost in the mystery of how they
design for shock waves.


Hi There,
	I am trying to find out a reliable Power Center, it is basically
a surge protector that sits below the monitor and has individual control
for each outlet. Some people have an opinion that none of them work well.
The ones that I could locate in Microcenter catalogue were:

Tripp Lite's Isobar Command COnsole ($79)

Proxima Power Director (89.95)

Kensington Masterpiece Plus (109.95)

Has anyone used one of these? Could you please send me your feedback
on these?

thanks


Is there evidence independent of the FBI that indicates that the Branch
Davidians set the fire?  What have the survivors said?  Did the press see
anything?

There is, unfortunately, precedent for the U.S. government saving children by
roasting them alive.  (There is precedent for religious self-imolation
as well.)


Time for a new discussion, maybe ? I asked in these groups some time ago
what about the TC++/VE, and got no answers, so I decided to try. My brother
who lives in the US bought and sent it to me, and I'm still trying to get
used to it.

Before I put my good/bad points list, consider I am a Turbo Pascal/DOS
programmer, and sometimes try to make something in Unix with C (just
some exercises from university). I used to make some programs in
Microsoft C version 5 (!!) because we used some third-party libraries
that required that.
- I like Borland. It seems to me much more easier to use than Microsoft,
  specially the debugger. I tried to learn Codeview sometimes, but never
  felt confortable with it.
- TC++ V/E seems very nice to create simple apps, like the examples on the
  ObjectWindows book. So far, no problems. Lets see next week or so, when I
  will try something more complex.
- It works nice even in my "weak" machine 386/16Mhz, 6 Mb Ram.

But.....

- The manual for the Resource Workshop seems to be from a different version
  from the Workshop itself. Some of the windows that appear on the manual
  have more itens than in the manual.
- I think I will run into trouble since I got this TC++/VE from my brother
  as a present. I didnt wanted to buy the Japanese version because 1) I
  suspect that the manuals will be in Japanese :-( and 2) I believe it
  will be far more expensive here. So he bought it as a present and sent to
  me, I send the registration card to the Japanese branch of Borland, but...
  who knows.

So, I'd like to ask some questions for you all;

- I know that there are some Microsoft guys around here in this group. Is
  there anybody from Borland ? Is there any e-mail address that we can
  contact the technical support ? Not for stupid questions, but to ask
  for example, why the RW manual seems to be different from the RW itself ?
- Is there anybody else using it around here ?
- Will the book of Petzold be useful for me ? I intend to use RW and ProtoGen
  to make the interfaces and then work on the code itself.

Answers to my e-mail or comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools, please.

Thanks in advance,


	Oh, yeah.  Dave Winfield--marginal player.  Guy didn't hit a lick, had
negligible power, was a crap fielder and had no staying power.  Dave Winfield,
now entering his (I believe) 20th big league season, is still a damn decent
hitter.  Admittedly, his defense has slipped a great deal, but in his prime,
he had a powerful arm and great range.  Take a look at the stats:  I don't
know where you even BEGIN to make an argument that Winfield and Kingman are
similar players.  Kingman was a one-dimension power hitter--he couldn't field,
he ran like an anvil, hit for a low average (though, if I remember right, his
OBP wasn't THAT hideous...), and (for those who consider such things important)
was a absolute-primo-dick.
	Eddie Murray?  Yup, only the best 1st baseman of the 80's.  I know that
MVP votes are conducted by mediots, but given that he got jobbed out of the
MVP he deserved in 1983, it seems that he wasn't overrated by the media.
	Lee Smith?  Hmmmm... This one's actually pretty close.  He's had a s
solid, dependable career as a closer despite pitching in some nasty parks
(Wrigley, Fenway...).  I'd have to take a closer look at the stats (it's been
a while), but it seems Lee Arthur is of HOF caliber.
	You do make a legitimate point about the HOF credentials of relievers,
simply racking up a lot of saves doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot if you
blow a bunch, too.  Simply because Minnesota and Boston and (for a month)
Atlanta used Reardon as a closer for longer than he should have been one,
the Equalizer has racked up an impressive number of saves.  No way should
HomerMan be in the HOF, IMHO.
	Darrell Evans?  Nice career, actually a bit underrated (kinda like
Ted Simmons, IMHO), but not a HOF'er.

	Lemme ask you this.  Who the hell playing the game ISN'T marginal?

	Now, wait a goddamn minute here.  Ozzie Smith absolutely REDEFINED the
position of shortstop.  His defense was SO good that he's won something along
the lines of 10 Gold Gloves.  Again, Gold Gloves are mediot-biased, and a
good argument could be made that Larkin deserved one or two of Ozzie's more
recent awards, but usually, this is tempered by someone else in the early
80's getting the Gold Gloves Ozzie deserved earlier in his career.  Ozzie's
offense, you ask?  Good OBP, great speed numbers, in a park which, for most of his
career, depressed offense, admittedly, no power ('cept against Tom Niedenfuer
:-|), but still, a definite asset offensively.
	Yount?  3,000 hits, MVP at two different positions, uh-huh, a real
stiff.  His '82 was one of the great years EVER by a player in recent memory,
and probably ranks behind only the peak seasons of Wagner and Banks, as far as
SS numbers go.  He's a clear HOF'er, IMHO.

	Well, as far as Garvey goes, you're right.  Garvey is a "mediot"
candidate, pushed because of his "winning attitude" (a minor factor, if one
at all), and his "great defense" (no errors, admittedly, but the range of
a tree stump...).  Garvey shouldn't be in the HOF.
	SkyJack?  I've said a lot of nasty things about SkyJack in the last
year or so, but this is mostly in response to mediots and woofers who talk
about Morris' "ability to win" which is nothing more than Morris' "ability
to pitch when Toronto to score tons of runs".  At this point, Morris is an
average pitcher (although from his early returns in '93, he may be damned
close to done.).  But, in all fairness, Morris was a dominant pitcher in the
80's for up-and-down Tiger teams.  While 1984 was (obviously) a great year
for Detroit, the rest of the decade, the team was generally in contention, but
not favorites.  Morris' career numbers are quite good, and worthy of HOF
"consideration".
	Ryan?  Of course, but be careful.  I guarantee you that someone will
throw back your earlier logic about "Yount and Smith being shortstops who
hung around a long time".  After all, Nolan never won a Cy...  Damn, he's
just pitcher who hung around for 99 years...  His W-L record is mediocre...
(Of course, Nolan's a HOF'er...)
	Puck?  Probably, although he's got to play reasonably well for a few
more years (10 years, even good ones, aren't enough to make the HOF, most
likely).  That said, I believe Puckett WILL make the HOF, pretty much
regardless of how the rest of his career turns out (barring something REALLY
tragic or sudden).  He's very popular in the media and with fans, and
legitimately has been one of the best CF's in the game since he joined the
league.  I've always liked the guy, and I hope he does make it.  And, in the
end, I think the Puck will make it in.  But, really, it's too early to sell.

	This debate comes up rather frequently on the net, and, believe it
or not, I never tire of it.  It's an interesting subject.  Here's an off
the top of my head list of potential HOF'ers from each team.  I probably
left a couple of guys off, so feel free to follow up.  I won't consider ANYONE
who started playing after about 1985 (again, too early to tell.) [Note: these
are all active players, I'm not counting recent retirees]

Baltimore:  Cal Ripken (should be a lock by now, even if Gehrig's record stands)
Boston: Roger Clemens (might be a lock already, which is amazing), Dawson (?)
Detroit: Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker (possibilities)
Milwaukee: Robin Yount (discussed earlier)
New York: Wade Boggs (possibly), Mattingly (long shot)
Toronto: Paul Molitor and Jack Morris (possibilities)

Kansas City: George Brett (lock)
Minnesota: Kirby (too early to tell), Winfield (lock)
Oakland: Eckersley (lock), McGwire (too early), Rickey (lock), Welch (LONG shot)
Texas: The Mighty Nolan [Too early to consider Canseco or Strange :-)]

Cubs: Sandberg (lock)
St. Louis: Ozzie (lock), Lee Smith (probably)
New York: Murray (almost a lock), Saberhagen (obviously, he's got to regain
				  	      past form)
[And most certainly, NOT Vince Coleman, despite what he'll tell you :-)]

Los Angeles: Butler, Strawberry, and Hershiser are all long shots.
San Diego: Tony Gwynn (pretty good shot)
Colorado: Dale Murphy (a good shot), Ryan Bowen (just to see if you're awake)

	[Before I get flames: this is an off-the-top-of-the-head list, there's
probably a few deserving candidates that I left off, and, I didn't include
Barry Bonds, Will Clark, Any Atlanta Starting Pitcher, Frank Thomas, Canseco,
McGriff, etc. because I only considered guys who started playing before
1985)]

	E-mail or post, I almost fear what I may have started here...


I too, usually wear sunglasses inside my full face helmet to keep dirt & wind
out of my contacts.  Mumble, mumble, mumble ...


Good luck.


I'm looking for a version of xterm which handles color and vt220 style status
lines. Can anyone out there help?


[Lots of trippy stuff deleted]

Wow...  What is this guy smoking and WHERE can I GET SOME?

Dan


	Why "must"?

---

        " Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. "


I heard the same thing, but without confirmation that he actually said it.
It was just as alarming to us as to you; the Bible says that nobody knows
when the second coming will take place.


I am involved with a Michigan company that has an application requiring
wireless data transfer.  If you have expertise or information that may
assist us in this project, please contact me (INTERNET: leblanc@cvm.msu.
edu).