Since I've been seeing all kinds of complaints regarding Gateways
lately on here, I thought I post my recent pleasant experiences. My
machine (4DX2-66V) this past Friday. This was two weeks to the DAY from
when I called the order in.

   Upon unboxing it I found everything to be in perfect order. All the
peripherals I ordered were properly installed (Jumbo-250 & CD-ROM). I
was very impressed with the quantity and quality of the Gateway
documentation. All software came with the original disks and manuals.
The Gateway manual itself is in a nice 3-ring binder. The ATI GUP came
with build59 drivers. All other software I specified (Microsoft Office)
was properly installed. The machine came right up out of the box and
has been performing flawlessly. It's been on all weekend and it hardly
even reaches room temperature. I think the big roomy tower case has a
lot to do with it.

   It's up and running DOS 6.0 with no problems. I've also read about
some people having problems with high speed serial communications.
I used the DOS 6.0 InterLink program which lets me link to my old
computer via a serial port at 115.2K baud. It then "maps" the other
machines two hard disks as my disks F & G. You can "cd" to these
drives and either run programs or copy files. It's almost like a
peer-peer lan except you can also *run* programs on the other machine.
It's not a two way street. The other machine is the server and this
machine is the client. So thats where it seems to differ from the
peer to peer stuff. For a bundled DOS utility its very impressive.

  My Jumbo-250 took about 11 minutes to back up 117MB of data. I also
by-passed any potential Gateway monitor problems by taking the $430
credit and applying it towards a NEC 4FG. I love this monitor!

  So, I'm glad there is some good news Gateway stories and I'm glad it
was me. (Now if it just KEEPS working). :-)

					John


Well, if everything wouldn't be okay, then tell us what it is that
wouldn't be okay.   That is, if religions were no longer tax-exempt, then
what would be wrong with their lobbying or otherwise attempting to
influence politics?


[deletia wrt pathetic Jee-zus posting by Bissel]

NO. He hasn't extended to US the courtesy you've shown us, so he don't get no
pie. Tammy, I respect your beliefs because you don't try to stamp them into
my being. I have scorn for posters whose sole purpose appears to be to
evangelize.


Jesus also recognized other holy days, like the Passover.  Acts 15 says
that no more should be layed on the Gentiles than that which is necessary.
The sabbath is not in the list, nor do any of the epistles instruct people
to keep the 7th day, while Christians were living among people who did not
keep the 7th day.  It looks like that would have been a problem.

Instead, we have Scriptures telling us that all days can be esteemed alike
(Romans 14:5) and that no man should judge us in regard to what kind of
food we eat, Jewish holy days we keep, or _in regard to the sabbath. (Col. 2.)

I don't think that the Sabbath, or any other command of the law is totally
irrelevant to modern Christians, but what about Collosions 2, where it says
that we are not to be judged in regard to the keeping of the sabbath?


Looking for PostScript or Tex version of a paper called:
	"PUBLIC-KEY CRYPTOGRAPHY"

Written by:
	James Nechvatal
	Security Technology Group
	National Computer Systems Laboratory
	National Institute of Standards and Technology
	Gaithersburg, MD 20899

	December 1990

The version I obtained is plain text and all symbolic character
formatting has been lost.


Archive-name: space/controversy
Last-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:06 $

CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS

    These issues periodically come up with much argument and few facts being
    offered. The summaries below attempt to represent the position on which
    much of the net community has settled. Please DON'T bring them up again
    unless there's something truly new to be discussed. The net can't set
    public policy, that's what your representatives are for.

    WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SATURN V PLANS

    Despite a widespread belief to the contrary, the Saturn V blueprints
    have not been lost. They are kept at Marshall Space Flight Center on
    microfilm.

    The problem in re-creating the Saturn V is not finding the drawings, it
    is finding vendors who can supply mid-1960's vintage hardware (like
    guidance system components), and the fact that the launch pads and VAB
    have been converted to Space Shuttle use, so you have no place to launch
    from.

    By the time you redesign to accommodate available hardware and re-modify
    the launch pads, you may as well have started from scratch with a clean
    sheet design.

    WHY DATA FROM SPACE MISSIONS ISN'T IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE

    Investigators associated with NASA missions are allowed exclusive access
    for one year after the data is obtained in order to give them an
    opportunity to analyze the data and publish results without being
    "scooped" by people uninvolved in the mission. However, NASA frequently
    releases examples (in non-digital form, e.g. photos) to the public early
    in a mission.

    RISKS OF NUCLEAR (RTG) POWER SOURCES FOR SPACE PROBES

    There has been extensive discussion on this topic sparked by attempts to
    block the Galileo and Ulysses launches on grounds of the plutonium
    thermal sources being dangerous. Numerous studies claim that even in
    worst-case scenarios (shuttle explosion during launch, or accidental
    reentry at interplanetary velocities), the risks are extremely small.
    Two interesting data points are (1) The May 1968 loss of two SNAP 19B2
    RTGs, which landed intact in the Pacific Ocean after a Nimbus B weather
    satellite failed to reach orbit. The fuel was recovered after 5 months
    with no release of plutonium. (2) In April 1970, the Apollo 13 lunar
    module reentered the atmosphere and its SNAP 27 RTG heat source, which
    was jettisoned, fell intact into the 20,000 feet deep Tonga Trench in
    the Pacific Ocean. The corrosion resistant materials of the RTG are
    expected to prevent release of the fuel for a period of time equal to 10
    half-lives of the Pu-238 fuel or about 870 years [DOE 1980].

    To make your own informed judgement, some references you may wish to
    pursue are:

    A good review of the technical facts and issues is given by Daniel
    Salisbury in "Radiation Risk and Planetary Exploration-- The RTG
    Controversy," *Planetary Report*, May-June 1987, pages 3-7. Another good
    article, which also reviews the events preceding Galileo's launch,
    "Showdown at Pad 39-B," by Robert G. Nichols, appeared in the November
    1989 issue of *Ad Astra*. (Both magazines are published by pro-space
    organizations, the Planetary Society and the National Space Society
    respectively.)

    Gordon L Chipman, Jr., "Advanced Space Nuclear Systems" (AAS 82-261), in
    *Developing the Space Frontier*, edited by Albert Naumann and Grover
    Alexander, Univelt, 1983, p. 193-213.

    "Hazards from Plutonium Toxicity", by Bernard L. Cohen, Health Physics,
    Vol 32 (may) 1977, page 359-379.

    NUS Corporation, Safety Status Report for the Ulysses Mission: Risk
    Analysis (Book 1). Document number is NUS 5235; there is no GPO #;
    published Jan 31, 1990.

    NASA Office of Space Science and Applications, *Final Environmental
    Impact Statement for the Ulysses Mission (Tier 2)*, (no serial number or
    GPO number, but probably available from NTIS or NASA) June 1990.

    [DOE 1980] U.S.  Department of Energy, *Transuranic Elements in the
    Environment*, Wayne C.  Hanson, editor; DOE Document No.  DOE/TIC-22800;
    Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., April 1980.)

    IMPACT OF THE SPACE SHUTTLE ON THE OZONE LAYER

    From time to time, claims are made that chemicals released from
    the Space Shuttle's Solid Rocket Boosters (SRBs) are responsible
    for a significant amount of damage to the ozone layer. Studies
    indicate that they in reality have only a minute impact, both in
    absolute terms and relative to other chemical sources. The
    remainder of this item is a response from the author of the quoted
    study, Charles Jackman.

    The atmospheric modelling study of the space shuttle effects on the
    stratosphere involved three independent theoretical groups, and was
    organized by Dr. Michael Prather, NASA/Goddard Institute for Space
    Studies.  The three groups involved Michael Prather and Maria Garcia
    (NASA/GISS), Charlie Jackman and Anne Douglass (NASA/Goddard Space
    Flight Center), and Malcolm Ko and Dak Sze (Atmospheric and
    Environmental Research, Inc.).  The effort was to look at the effects
    of the space shuttle and Titan rockets on the stratosphere.

    The following are the estimated sources of stratospheric chlorine:

       Industrial sources:    300,000,000 kilograms/year
	  Natural sources:     75,000,000 kilograms/year
	  Shuttle sources:	  725,000 kilograms/year

    The shuttle source assumes 9 space shuttles and 6 Titan rockets are
    launched yearly. Thus the launches would add less than 0.25% to the
    total stratospheric chlorine sources.

    The effect on ozone is minimal:  global yearly average total ozone would
    be decreased by 0.0065%. This is much less than total ozone variability
    associated with volcanic activity and solar flares.

    The influence of human-made chlorine products on ozone is computed
    by atmospheric model calculations to be a 1% decrease in globally
    averaged ozone between 1980 and 1990. The influence of the space shuttle and
    Titan rockets on the stratosphere is negligible.  The launch
    schedule of the Space Shuttle and Titan rockets would need to be
    increased by over a factor of a hundred in order to have about
    the same effect on ozone as our increases in industrial halocarbons
    do at the present time.

    Theoretical results of this study have been published in _The Space
    Shuttle's Impact on the Stratosphere_, MJ Prather, MM Garcia, AR
    Douglass, CH Jackman, M.K.W. Ko and N.D. Sze, Journal of Geophysical
    Research, 95, 18583-18590, 1990.

    Charles Jackman, Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Branch,
    Code 916, NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center,
    Greenbelt, MD  20771

    Also see _Chemical Rockets and the Environment_, A McDonald, R Bennett,
    J Hinshaw, and M Barnes, Aerospace America, May 1991.

    HOW LONG CAN A HUMAN LIVE UNPROTECTED IN SPACE

    If you *don't* try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a
    minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your
    breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to
    watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your
    Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal
    experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no
    immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do
    not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness.

    Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some
    [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue)
    start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from
    lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes,
    you're dying. The limits are not really known.

    References:

    _The Effect on the Chimpanzee of Rapid Decompression to a Near Vacuum_,
    Alfred G. Koestler ed., NASA CR-329 (Nov 1965).

    _Experimental Animal Decompression to a Near Vacuum Environment_, R.W.
    Bancroft, J.E. Dunn, eds, Report SAM-TR-65-48 (June 1965), USAF School
    of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks AFB, Texas.

    HOW THE CHALLENGER ASTRONAUTS DIED

    The Challenger shuttle launch was not destroyed in an explosion. This is
    a well-documented fact; see the Rogers Commission report, for example.
    What looked like an explosion was fuel burning after the external tank
    came apart. The forces on the crew cabin were not sufficient to kill the
    astronauts, never mind destroy their bodies, according to the Kerwin
    team's medical/forensic report.

    The astronauts were killed when the more-or-less intact cabin hit the
    water at circa 200MPH, and their bodies then spent several weeks
    underwater. Their remains were recovered, and after the Kerwin team
    examined them, they were sent off to be buried.

    USING THE SHUTTLE BEYOND LOW EARTH ORBIT

    You can't use the shuttle orbiter for missions beyond low Earth orbit
    because it can't get there. It is big and heavy and does not carry
    enough fuel, even if you fill part of the cargo bay with tanks.

    Furthermore, it is not particularly sensible to do so, because much of
    that weight is things like wings, which are totally useless except in
    the immediate vicinity of the Earth. The shuttle orbiter is highly
    specialized for travel between Earth's surface and low orbit. Taking it
    higher is enormously costly and wasteful. A much better approach would
    be to use shuttle subsystems to build a specialized high-orbit
    spacecraft.

    [Yet another concise answer by Henry Spencer.]

    THE "FACE ON MARS"

    There really is a big rock on Mars that looks remarkably like a humanoid
    face. It appears in two different frames of Viking Orbiter imagery:
    35A72 (much more facelike in appearance, and the one more often
    published, with the Sun 10 degrees above western horizon) and 70A13
    (with the Sun 27 degrees from the west).

    Science writer Richard Hoagland has championed the idea that the Face is
    artificial, intended to resemble a human, and erected by an
    extraterrestrial civilization. Most other analysts concede that the
    resemblance is most likely accidental. Other Viking images show a
    smiley-faced crater and a lava flow resembling Kermit the Frog elsewhere
    on Mars. There exists a Mars Anomalies Research Society (sorry, don't
    know the address) to study the Face.

    The Mars Observer mission will carry an extremely high-resolution
    camera, and better images of the formation will hopefully settle this
    question in a few years. In the meantime, speculation about the Face is
    best carried on in the altnet group alt.alien.visitors, not sci.space or
    sci.astro.

    V. DiPeitro and G. Molenaar, *Unusual Martian Surface Features*, Mars
    Research, P.O. Box 284, Glen Dale, Maryland, USA, 1982. $18 by mail.

    R.R. Pozos, *The Face of Mars*, Chicago Review Press, 1986. [Account of
    an interdisciplinary speculative conference Hoagland organized to
    investigate the Face]

    R.C. Hoagland, *The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever*,
    North Atlantic Books, Berkeley, California, USA, 1987. [Elaborate
    discussion of evidence and speculation that formations near the Face
    form a city]

    M.J. Carlotto, "Digital Imagery Analysis of Unusual Martian Surface
    Features," *Applied Optics*, 27, pp. 1926-1933, 1987. [Extracts
    three-dimensional model for the Face from the 2-D images]

    M.J. Carlotto & M.C. Stein, "A Method of Searching for Artificial
    Objects on Planetary Surfaces," *Journal of the British Interplanetary
    Society*, Vol. 43 no. 5 (May 1990), p.209-216. [Uses a fractal image
    analysis model to guess whether the Face is artificial]

    B. O'Leary, "Analysis of Images of the `Face' on Mars and Possible
    Intelligent Origin," *JBIS*, Vol. 43 no. 5 (May 1990), p. 203-208.
    [Lights Carlotto's model from the two angles and shows it's consistent;
    shows that the Face doesn't look facelike if observed from the surface]


I am so tired about all this debate on how many gays there
are!  Such arguments are basically worthless, imho.  Would it
really matter if it were millions of people who are regularly
denied access to housing, employment, and personal security or
even only one?
    As for death threats, I happen to know from personal
experience that gay people are far more likely to receive
them based on political veiws or even personal philosophies
related to the issue of sexual orientation than are heterosex
uals. Not a week goes by that I personally or one of my friends
is not physically or verbally harrassed for even appearing to
be gay.
     Everyone is garaunteed certain unalienable rights under
our current form of government in theory, yet every day
gay people are victimized by their local governments, by
the police force, and by (for the most part) an uninformed
and ignorant public. Is this democracy? I don't think so.
   A society's sense of justice is judged on the basis of
the treatment of the people who make up that society.
All of those people. And yes, that includes gays, lesbians,
and bisexuals whose "crimes" have no victims, and who
are as varied and diverse as the society of wich they are
a part.


Does anyone have a rear wheel for a PD they'd like to part with?

Does anyone know where I might find one salvage?

As long as I'm getting the GIVI luggage for Brunnhilde and have
the room, I thought I'd carry a spare.

Ride Free,

Bill
___________________________________________________________________
johnsw@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu  prez=BIMC  KotV KotRR
DoD #00314  AMA #580924   SPI = 7.18   WMTC #0002  KotD #0001
Yamabeemer fj100gs1200pdr650 Special and a Volvo.  What more could anyone ask?


Let's fill in some winners here:


Pretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today.  Small
fun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the
performance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars.


Greetings fellow motorcycle roadracing enthusiasts!

 BACKGROUND
 ----------

 The racing listserver (boogie.EBay.sun.com) contains discussions
 devoted to racing and racing-related topics. This is a pretty broad
 interest group. Individuals have a variety of backgrounds: motojournalism,
 roadracing from the perspective of pit crew and racers, engineering,
 motosports enthusiasts.

 The size of the list grows weekly. We are currently at a little
 over one hundred and eighty-five members, with contributors from
 New Zealand, Australia, Germany, France, England, Canada
 Finland, Switzerland, and the United States.

 The list was formed (October 1991) in response to a perceived need
 to both provide technical discussion of riding at the edge of
 performance (roadracing) and to improve on the very low signal-to-noise
 ratio found in rec.motorcycles. Anyone is free to join.

 Discussion is necessarily limited by the rules of the list to
 issues related to racing motorcycles and is to be "flame-free".

 HOW TO GET THE DAILY DISTRIBUTION
 ---------------------------------

 You are welcome to subscribe. To subscribe send your request to:

        race-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM

 Traffic currently runs between five and twenty-five messages per day
 (depending on the topic).

   NB: Please do _not_ send your subscription request to the
       list directly.

 After you have contacted the list administrator, you will receive
 an RSVP request. Please respond to this request in a timely manner
 so that you can be added to the list. The request is generated in
 order to insure that there is a valid mail pathway to your site.

 Upon receipt of your RSVP, you will be added to either the daily
 or digest distribution (as per your initial request).

 HOW TO GET THE DIGEST DISTRIBUTION
 ----------------------------------

 It is possible to receive the list in 'digest'ed form (ie. a
 single email message). The RoadRacing Digest is mailed out
 whenever it contains enough interesting content. Given the
 frequency of postings this appears to be about every other
 day.

 Should you wish to receive the list via digest (once every
 30-40K or so), please send a subscription request to:

        digest-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM

 HOW TO POST TO THE LIST
 -----------------------

 This is an open forum. To post an article to the list, send to:

        race@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM

 Depending on how mail is set up at your site you may or may
 not see the mail that you have posted. If you want to see it
 (though this isn't necessarily a guarantee that it went out)
 you can include a "metoo" line in your .mailrc file (on UNIX
 based mail systems).

 BOUNCES
 -------

 Because I haven't had the time (or the inclination to replace
 the list distribution mechanism) we still have a problem with
 bounces returning to the poster of a message. Occasionally,
 sites or users go off-line (either leaving their place of
 employment prematurely or hardware problems) and you will receive
 bounces from the race list. Check the headers carefully, and
 if you find that the bounce originated at Sun (from whence I
 administer this list) contact me through my administration
 hat (race-request@boogie.EBay.sun.com). If not, ignore the bounce.

 OTHER LISTS
 -----------

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                         or  uunet!watmath!thinkage!harley-request
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                         (in body of message write: subscribe euro-moto)

 thanks, be seeing you,
 Rich (race list administrator)

 rich@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM


The only difference is the time the driver gets loaded. mouse.sys will be
loaded during the config.sys and therefor before the command.com. mouse.com
will be loaded during autoexec.bat and so after the command.com.

mouse.com could be started from the commandline after the booting and it
could - perhaps - be unloaded, if no other driver is loaded after it.
The working of both drivers is totally the same.

When I ran dos, I preferred loading most of the drivers in autoexec.bat,
because some programs won't run with some drivers and I could choose the
ones I needed during startup. But with DRDOS6, this advantage is gone,
because DRDOS lets you choose in config.sys which drivers should be loaded.

Michael


reconditioned at a
(still
Well, sounds like we need some kind of a Lemon Law on the hardware
industry.  After all it does sound unfair to me for someone that has
paid the price of a new drive for a reconditioned one.  What do you
guys think?


believeing blindly or not. I'm not sure how blindness comes into it. I do > not
deny reason, indeed I insist upon it, but reason only draws conclusions > from
evidence. If you decide in advance that your reason will act only on > the
evidence of the five physical senses, then you cut reason off from any >
possibility of reaching a conclusion outside the physical sphere (beyond the >
rather provocative, if inconclusive, conclusion that the physical sphere > is
not self explanatory).

So your are saying to rely on our feelings and experiences (since
this is the only other source of information left to us).
How can you then convince somebody that your "feelings and experiences"
are the correct ones then if you can't show somebody visible and
measurable effects?  If my experiences say that "there exists no god"
and yours says there does, where does that leave us?  Since we are only
going on experiences, then both of us are correct within our own personal
realities.

Furthermore, the trouble with "feelings and experiences" is that they
can lead you astray, as the tragic outcome of Waco illustrates.  I
am sure that many of Koresh's followers really believed in him but
I think that you and I will agree that they were being misled.

Finally, how on earth do you come to the conclusion that the physical
sphere is not self-explanatory when you only rely on the five senses?

You must be using a definition of "evidence" that I am not familiar with.
To me, evidence is something you can show others -unambiguously- that
what you are saying is true.

However, I agree with you that belief in a diety is a matter of faith.
It is not something you can share around - others must experience it
independantly.  Unfortunately, as I have explained above, this puts
belief down to a matter of experience.  My impression is that Christians
do not have the monopoly on reason, evidence and faith as far as any of
these things can go.

At the risk of repeating my argument : As I have explained previously,
the trouble is that Moslems, Buddhists, Jews, etc will ALL say that THEY
claim, with good reason, to be a valid system, possessed of the best
evidence, for explaining Gods revelations to man (for Buddhists it
should read "for explaining the non-existence of God").  So not only
must you "prove" your own case, you have to "disprove" theirs.

(alt.messianic is a good place to see people strong in the belief
of their own faiths ... and with their own good reasons)

I know that ALL people can use reason ... I never claimed that they don't.
I just wish to make sure that their arguments are well-founded.  It goes
without saying that if I make a blunder that I expect people to correct
me.  Once we have all gone through this process of removing the
non-essential and contradictory bits, we should (hopefully) have made
some progress towards the truth.


Excerpts from netnews.alt.atheism: 15-Apr-93 Re: thoughts on christians
by Dave Fuller@portal.hq.vi
I think it'd help if we got a couple good atheists (or even some good,
steadfast agnostics) in some high political offices.  When was the last
time we had an (openly) atheist president?  Have we ever?  (I don't
actually know; these aren't rhetorical questions.)  How 'bout some
Supreme court justices?

One thing that really ticked me off a while ago was an ad for a news
program on a local station...The promo said something like "Who are
these cults, and why do they prey on the young?"  Ahem.  EVER HEAR OF
BAPTISM AT BIRTH?  If that isn't preying on the young, I don't know what
is...

I used to be (ack, barf) a Catholic, and was even confirmed...Shortly
thereafter I decided it was a load of BS.  My mom, who really insisted
that I continue to go to church, felt it was her duty (!) to bring me up
as a believer!  That was one of the more presumptuous things I've heard
in my life.  I suggested we go talk to the priest, and she agreed.  The
priest was amazingly cool about it...He basically said that if I didn't
believe it, there was no good in forcing it on me.  Actually, I guess he
wasn't amazingly cool about it--His response is what you'd hope for
(indeed, expect) from a human being.  I s'pose I just _didn't_ expect
it...

I find it absurd that religion exists; Yet, I can also see its
usefulness to people.  Facing up to the fact that you're just going to
be worm food in a few decades, and that there isn't some cosmic purpose
to humanity and the universe, can be pretty difficult for some people.
Having a readily-available, pre-digested solution to this is pretty
attractive, if you're either a) gullible enough, b) willing to suspend
your reasoning abilities for the piece of mind, or c) have had the stuff
rammed down your throat for as long as you can remember.  Religion in
general provides a nice patch for some human weaknesses; Organized
religion provides a nice way to keep a population under control.

Blech.

Chris


Most cars have drain petcocks in the radiators, and I've never
seen nor heard of a vandal opening one.  I imagine that there
would be an even lower risk with an oil plug because you have
to crawl furthur under the car to open it.

Car vandals are usually real traditional in their methods, and do things
that don't get them dirty, like keying your car, dumping sand, sugar
or mothballs in the gas tank, TPing it, etc.


The investment was there in the form of huge tax breaks, and employer
benfits.  You are overlooking the difference that these could have
made to any company.  Part of the problem was that few industries
were interested in political settling, as much as profit.

True, which leads to the obvious question, should any investment have
been made there at the taxpayer's expense.  Obviously, the answer was
and still is a resounding no.


Secrecy in Clipper Chip

The serial number of the clipper chip is encrypted with the system key and
transmitted as one part of a three part message.

Presumably the protocol can be recovered (if by nothing else, differential
analysis).

Postulate if you will, a chip (or logic) sitting between the clipper chip
and its communications channel.  The purpose of this chip is twofold:

	1) Transmit Channel

	    The spoof chip XORs the 30 bit encrypted serial number with
	    a secondary keying variable.  This renders the serial number
	    unrecoverable with just the system key

	2) Recieve Channel

	    The spoof chip XORs the incoming encrypted serial number
	    with a secondary keying variable (assuming the serial number
	    is necessary for local operation).

This has the net result of hiding the serial number.  This gets more
interesting when the number of serial numbers issued becomes large,
making it difficult to distinguish between valid serial numbers and
a spoofed serial number.  Without knowing the system key, you could
lie about the serial number, but risk detection of the lie.

IF you had the system key and the encryption algorithm you could
successfully lie with a lower probability of detection by emulating the
format of your own serial number.


sale item: A brand new Stealth VRAM Hi-Color card w/ 1meg display
price    : $135

It comes with:  install disk
		Turbo windows 3.x drivers /w 24bit color
		Halo Desktop Imager (24bit) for windows 3.x
		Advanced AutoCAD accelerator (includes Big Picture)
		a complete manual

If interested, please e-mail  sunbum@cory.berkeley.edu


According to THE FAN here in T.O., Ottawa has won the Daigle e
sweepstakes.  They didn't mention why, but San Jose had more goals
than the Sen-sens, so I have a hunch this is why Ottawa would pick
first.....


This is incorrect.  Sun has made no such claim regarding Devguide, and as
manager of the Devguide engineering group I can state with authority that
work on Devguide is continuing apace.  We had quite a strong show of interest
from the Devguide user community at last week's Solaris Developer's Conference.
Devguide is being advocated not only as a valuable future builder tool, but
as an important bit of transition technology that will help sustain current
customers and facilitate their migration to the COSE Desktop Environment.

If you have specific questions about Devguide availability, etc., you can
contact Tali Aben, our Devguide Product Marketing person, at (415) 336-3536.


Nonsense.  I quite clearly state that it was Greg that made the claim
that Gainey never made an error.  And he made the claim. Read below.

From rec.sport.hockey Thu Apr 15 21:22:49 1993
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Message-ID: <1993Apr15.160450.27799@sol.UVic.CA>

[nonsense deleted]

Gainey is the best defensive forward ever.  I stand by that assessment.
He was a very good player who belongs in the hall of fame.  Did you
ever watch him play? He never made a technical error.

[more nonsense deleted]

To knowledgeable observers of the game my meaning is obvious.  Your
hockey education is not my responsibility.

He was just another player.  To laud him as anything more I find
bothersome.  I hated the Habs.  I hated Lafleur until I realized
that he was likely the most aesthetically pleasing player to ever
skate in my lifetime.  Why would anyone talk about Gainey?

Did he play hockey at a high level?  Was he any good?  If not, why
would you bother to bring JC up?  I am talking about hockey players
here.  If you can't follow the conversation don't follow up.  As I
said previously, it is not my responsibility to educate you.

Sure.  Two journeymen.  Big deal.  Neither one of them is worth
discussing.

That is an excellent idea and if I decide to waste any more time
responding to any of your, or Greg's, postings then I will be sure
to implement that very macro.

Tarasov claimed that Gainey was a "hockey god."  And Greg ate it up.
And that is what this thread is all about.  If you didn't know
that then why are you responding?

And as for "blanket disregard for these individuals", I can remember
Leaf teams, purely populated by such "individuals", winning four
Stanley Cups.  Teams.  No one ran around telling us that George
Armstrong was the best hockey player in the world.

Right.  I had to get to the end of your posting before I realized you were
a complete joke.

In the future, if you are going to respond to my postings I would appreciate
it if you could present a cogent argument supported by facts gleaned from a
version of reality that most of the rest of us would recognize.

cordially, as always,

rm


I have the ARRL Handbook for the Radio AMateur, and I'm getting the
Solid STate Design for the Radio Amateur.


Sorry to put a damper on your plans, but I was there three weeks ago and
it wasn't there.  Not that I would have known to look for it, of course,
but I combed the space exhibits pretty thoroughly and something like that
would have caught my attention instantly.


Hi !

I am interested in the source of FEAL encryption algorithm.
Does someone of you know where I can get the source from, or
where I can find documentation about FEAL.

Thanks in advance

Ciao Hermann


That's right.  Humans have gone somewhat beyond this though.  Perhaps
our goal is one of self-actualization.

Now you are letting an omniscient being give information to me.  This
was not part of the original premise.

Which type of morality are you talking about?  In a natural sense, it
is not at all immoral to harm another species (as long as it doesn't
adversely affect your own, I guess).


taken.

Hum, I guess this has some significance as opposed to having an incredible
drop during the last days in office. Unfortuantely having a loss in the
polls during the last days of office usually means no re-election. Ask
George.

Good one, Roooster. Thats hard to top.


I have the following items for sale.
Buyer pays the shipping costs.
Hardware is new and unused unless marked otherwise.
All software includes original disks and manuals.
No reasonable offers refused.
Send offers/questions to cpc3@po.cwru.edu

Hardware
---------
Hercules Graphics Card - mono graphics and printer ports
Hercules Color Card -  color graphics and printer ports
Teac 1.2MB 5.25"  floppy drive - doesn't work, sold as is for reapir or
parts
IBM ASYNC card - serial card for PC/XT/AT machines, comes with support
software
Kraft KC10 joystick - works with PC compatibles and Apple II series (not
Mac)
360K 5.25" floppy disks - over 200 bulk-grade disks
2 floppy disk storage boxes - each holds 60 5.25" disks, one has a lock
on it

Software
---------
Microsoft Macro Assembler 5.0 and 5.1 update - large manual and tutorial
included
Sideways 3.0 - rotates wide spreadsheets 90 degrees to print on 1 page

Games
------
WolfPack - WWII submarine simultaion
Space Station Oblivion - arcade-style game similar to Spectre
Demon Stalkers - dungeon game, like Gauntlet
Zork II, Moonmist, Ballyhoo - Infocom adventure/mystery games
Jack Nicklaus' Unlimited Golf and Course Design - excellent golf game
War In Middle Earth - similar to D&D games, based on Tolkien's "The
Hobbit"
Sargon 4 - excellent chess game, play against someone or against computer
Silent Service II - submarine simulation


As quoted from <1993Apr18.000152.2339@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> by jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:

Kind of sounds like Plessy v. Ferguson, huh?  Of course as in that case,
things change, huh?

No, if your little fantasy comes to pass, the country will have gone
TOWARD the KKK.  You're of course being a little disengenuous.  Violent
solutions are never passe FOR THE GOVERNMENT and CRIMINALS (who frequently)
cannot be distinguished).

"Avoid situations which encourage criminals"?  You mean don't be a woman?
Don't be Black?  Don't be gay?  I'm quite certain that having a surfeit of
unarmed victims will discourage your beloved KKK from engaging in "violent
solutions"....


[ Article crossposted from misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone ]
[ Author was Mark Wilson ]
[ Posted on Fri, 16 Apr 1993 13:18:42 GMT ]

UPDATE ("for sale" items):
(All plus shipping)

1. CORE 72Mb Hard drive, model AT72, works fine,
        5 1/4" full-height, reduced to $90

2. MFM controller for the above, would like to sell
        with above, have $15 asking price,
        but will sell with #1 above for $100 combined.

3. AT-style case $10 (in process of selling)

4. VGA card, 512K, now asking $25

5. 386 Max, version 6.0, now asking $25

Please email mark@ocsmd.ocs.com or use phone #s below.

- Mark
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson, Online Computer Systems.  1-800-922-9204 or 1-301-601-2215
(Try email address mark@ocsmd.ocs.com....)
This file .disclaims everything signed with my .signature, I .mean it!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson, Online Computer Systems.  1-800-922-9204 or 1-301-601-2215
(Try email address mark@ocsmd.ocs.com....)
This file .disclaims everything signed with my .signature, I .mean it!


People are seeming to be less concerned about Kariya's size as he leads
teams to championships (World Junior and US College) and collects
awards...everyone is watching with interest as to how he will perform
on left wing with Eric Lindros and Mark Recchi at the world
championships.

4 months of go...chances were not very good that he would go in the
top five...now it has become probable...a great world championship
could put him in the top 3 with Daigle and Pronger.


      Tennessee, at least, does not require any sort of safety class to
get a driver's license.  All that is required is one twenty question
quiz and to drive a car around the block without crashing.

      In all probability, no you don't.  You are required to be licensed
to drive on public roads.  A license is not necessary on private property.

       Most states do not require the registration of cars that are
not used on public roads.  Those that do (California I know of) do
so for tax purposes more than anything else.

       Many states do not currently require this, and most, again,
only make this requirement for public roads.  A car sitting unused
is not required to have insurance.

       The two are not the same, as I pointed out above.  There are
significant difference between making rules for *use on public property*
and *making rules for ownership*.

       The other half of the objection is trust.  Similar things to this
have been tried in many local jurisdications across the country, and
have been abused in far too many cases.   Safety classes which are
never sheduled, never funded, or only one or two is held a year for
a limited number of participants.  Registration lists in New York,
Chicago, and California have been used for confiscation.  *Many* gun
owners would, in theory, support these planes.  (Although the
numbers overwhelmingly show that competence is not the problem, that
intentional misuse is).  They've simply seen it abused and are leery of
the next person who comes down the pike with a "reasonable" suggestion
they've already seen abused.


I understand Caddy is working on one, double battery, super high perf
engine, more gauges, a bit 'stretched', etc, lots of communication equipment,
the works. Color selection is limited though.

The problem is that the guy at 1600 Penn. Avenue is about to get it
(Pres. Clinton) (Last time it was a Lincoln, this time a Caddy).

Not to my knowledge; I know GM does conversion work for things like
hot climates (i.e. the Chevy Caprices sold to the Middle East) but
things like that are always done by third parties, NOT the manufacturer.
Maybe you will need to buy a specific package that has beefed-up everything,
perhaps the police cruiser package on the Caprice/Crown Vic and start from
there.

"And I wuz drivin' along in my armored Seville STS and this punk pulls out
of nowhere with an RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade) but the bulletproof
windshield stopped him" :-) Don't think many people on the net have a need
for bulletproof cars.

Check with local armored service companies/security/bodyguard places. They'd
know best. I think your average luxury car dealer will have a coronary if
you told them "I'll take the blue Caprice, with options FZ01 (Fuzzy Dice),
PR11 (power everything), and AR007 (Armor).

I believe an article on the conversion process appeared in the car press within
the last few months.

Spiros


I am in need of the Driver for the Bernoulli Cartridge on a DataFrame
XP60+B.  The hard disk on the system got fried and I haven't been able to
locate the original disks.  If anyone has it or know where I can get this
please let me know via e-mail.

Thanks in advance.

Wayne Lyle

--


OK, the small programme that can be used to switch a SunCD drive into
2048 bytes/block mode for use with MSDOS/Adaptec/APSI it now available
by 'ftp' from

	ftp.novell.de (193.97.1.1) pub/pc/adaptec/cdblksize.zip


  I've been told that Panasonic has uploaded some to Compu$erve, but I
don't have a CIS account.  I just use the Epson FX-80 driver myself,
and it comes out very pretty (if very slowly) on my 1080i.


Configuration of IDE Harddisks
		    ==============================

last update:	14.4.1993

collected by Carsten Grammes (ph12hucg@rz.uni-sb.de)
and published regularly on comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is explicitly NO WARRANTY
that the given settings are correct or harmless. (I only collect, I do
not check for myself!!!). There is always the possibility that the
settings may destroy your hardware!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since I hope however that only well-minded people undergo the effort of
posting their settings the chance of applicability exists. If you should
agree or disagree with some setting, let me know immediately in order
to update the list.

If you possess a HD not mentioned here of which you know BIOS and/or
jumper settings, please mail them to me for the next update of the list!

Only IDE (AT-Bus) Harddisks will be accounted for.
If not specified the Landing Zone should be set equal to the number of
cylinders. If not specified the 'Write Precompensation' should be set
65535. (There are BIOSes that don't even ask for it).

Another statement (maybe right):
IDE harddisk don't have Precomp and LZone. The precomp is a built-in parameter
and lzone isn't used because most if not every IDE disk has autopark.

The jumpers' names are given as printed on the HD's board, often only a
jumper number (JP12 means the jumper '12'). A zero means that the jumper
is left open, a one means that the jumper is closed.

***************************   C O N N E R   ***************************

		Conner Peripherals Drive Geometry

IDE/AT

Conner drives are low level formatted at the factory. It is only necessary
to run SETUP, FDISK, and DOS FORMAT.

Model   Heads  Cylinders  Sectors   PComp   L-Zone  Type  Table    LED

CP2034     2     823         38      0       823    *UT     3      N/A
CP2064     4     823         38      0       823    *UT     3      N/A
CP2084     8     548         38      0       548    *UT     3      N/A
CP3184     6     832         33      0       832    *UT     1       A
CP3104     8     776         33      0       776    *UT     1       A
CP3111     8     833         33      0       833    *UT     1       A(?)
CP3204    16     683         38      0       683    *UT     2       B
CP30064    4     762         39      0       762    *UT     2       B
CP30084    8     526         39      0       526    *UT     2       B
CP30104    8     762         39      0       762    *UT     2       B
CP30084E   4     903         46      0       903    *UT     3       C
CP30174E   8     903         46      0       903    *UT     3       C
CP30204   16     683         38      0       683    *UT     3       C
CP3304    16     659         63      0       659    *UT     3       D
CP3364    16     702         63      0       702    *UT     3       D
CP3504    16     987         63      0       987    *UT     3       D
CP3554    16    1054         63      0      1054    *UT     3       B

Table 1                                  Table 2

       Jumper Settings                          Jumper Settings

Single Drive = Jumper ACT and C/D        Single Drive = Jumper C/D
Master Drive = Jumper ACT, C/D and DSP   Master Drive = Jumper C/D & DSP
Slave Drive = No jumpers installed       Slave Drive = No jumpers installed

Table 3
                                     All Conner 20 Mbyte drives use
        Jumper Settings              Drive type 2.  All Conner 40
                                     Mbyte drives use Drive type 17.
Single & Master Drive = Jumper C/D
Slave Drive = No jumpers installed   *UT = Universal translate.
                                     Select a drive type that is
                                     close to but does not exceed
                                     the megabyte capacity of the
                                     drive.  The drive will
                                     translate to the megabyte
                                     capacity that you have
                                     selected.

  LED

  A:           B:                       C:         D:
  J-4          J-5                      J-5        J-3
  Pin 1 = +    Pin 3 = +                Pin 3 = -  Pin 3 = +
  Pin 2 = -    Pin 4 = -                Pin 4 = -  Pin 4 = -

***************************    F U J I T S U      ***************************

DETAILS OF FUJITSU DRIVES M261xT (Standard)

                   M2614ET     M2613ET     M2612ET     M2611T

Heads (physical)       8           6           4           2
Cyl (physical)      1334        1334        1334        1334
Sec/trk               33          33          33          33
Speed (rpm)         3490        3490        3490        3490
Capacity           180MB       135MB        90MB        45MB

              +-----------------------------------------------+
              |                                               |
              +--+                                            |
        PSU   |  |      CNH-2                                 |
              +--+          1                                 |
            1 |  |          .                    LED          |
              |  | CNH-1    9      CNH-3      Connector       |
              |  |   1           6..1            o o          |
      40-way  |  |   .                           | |          |
        IDE   |  |   .                                        |
              |  |   .                                        |
              |  |  12                                        |
              +--+                                            |
              +-----------------------------------------------+

                 Pin        Function
                 Position

                 *  1- 2    Active mode
                    2- 3    Slave present mode
                    4- 5    Pin 27=IOCHRDY
CNH-1 JUMPERS    *  5- 6    Pin 27=RESERVED
                    7- 8    2 drive system
                 *  8- 9    1 drive system
                   10-11    Pin 29=IRQ14 : Pin 31=RESERVED
                 * 11-12    Pin 31=IRQ14 : Pin 29=RESERVED

                 Pin        Function
                 Position

                    1- 2    SLAVE drive mode
CNH-2 JUMPERS    *  4- 5    MASTER drive mode
                    7- 8    ECC 4 bytes
                 *  8- 9    ECC 7 bytes

                 Pin        Function
                 Position

                    1- 2    Write protect enabled
CNH-3 JUMPERS    *  2- 3    Write protect disabled
                    4- 5 -6 Reserved

Key:  * (I guess!) marks factory default setting for jumper

BIOS SETTINGS

BIOS setting for the M2614ET in my system is 667 cylinders, 33 sectors
and 16 heads.

MODEL      CYLINDERS   HEADS    SECTORS   CAPACITY (Million bytes)

M2622T      1013        10        63         326.75
M2623T      1002        13        63         420.16
M2624T      995         16        63         513.51

There are 6 switches on the switch block on these drives.  Only 4 of
them have a use that I am aware of (from my M2624T manual):

Master/Slave        Master (*)      SW1-5 OFF
                    Slave           SW1-5 ON
ECC bytes           4 bytes (*)     SW1-4 OFF
                    7 bytes         SW1-4 ON
Write Protect       Disabled (*)    SW1-3 OFF
                    Enabled         SW1-3 ON
IO Channel Ready    Disabled (*)    SW1-1 OFF
                    Enabled         SW1-1 ON

I have no idea about the function of SW1-2 and SW1-6.  The values
listed with a (*) are the factory default settings.

***************************   K A L O K     ***************************

KALOK	KL3100	  105 MB
BIOS:	cyl 979     heads 6	sectors 35

KALOK   KL3120    120 MB
BIOS:	 Cyl 981     heads 6     sectors 40

The following jumper settings have been reported for KL3100 but are probably
also valid for other Kalok drives.

Single HD:
o o o o o

o o o o-o    <-- same row as pin 1 of the IDE connector.

Master (disk 1):
o o o o o
    |
o o o o o

Slave:
o o o o o
      |
o o o o o

These 5 pairs of pins are at the righthand side of the disk.

***************************   M A X T O R   ***************************

Model           Cyls    Heads   Sectors Precomp Landing Zone
----------	-----	-----	-------	-------	------------
LXT-200A	816	15	32	0	816
LXT-213A	683	16	38	0	683
LXT-340A	654	16	63	0	654
LXT437A		842	16	63	0	842
LXT535A		1036	16	63	0	1024

Jumpers are as follows:

The bottom of the drive looks like this (well, sort of):

+[POWER] [IDE CONNECTOR]-----+

				Single drive	  Dual Drive System
Pin numbers	Jumper		System		Master		Slave
-----------	------		------------	------		-----
1-2		Slave Drive	remove		remove		install
3-4		Activity LED	optional	optional	optional
5-6		Slave Present	remove		remove		optional
7-8		Master Drive	remove		install		remove
9-10		Sync Spindle	remove (n/a)	optional*	remove

* only one drive (the master) in an array should have this jumper installed.

Maxtor 7060A    16    467   17     62,0 J14 closed, J13 closed
Maxtor 7060A     7   1024   17     59,5 J14 open,   J13 open
Maxtor 7060A     4    762   39     58,0 J14 closed, J13 open
Maxtor 7060A     8    925   17     57,9 J14 open,   J13 closed

Maxtor 7120A    16    936   17    124,3 J14 closed, J13 closed
Maxtor 7120A    14   1024   17    119,0 j14 open,   J13 open
Maxtor 7120A     8    762   39    116,0 J14 closed, J13 open
Maxtor 7120A    15    900   17    112,0 J14 open,   J13 closed
Maxtor 7120A     8    824   33    106,2 J14

Jumpers for the above 2 drives:

                  J11  I/O-channel ready ( open: disabled; close: enabled )
                  J13  see above
                  J14  see above
                  J15  operation-status ( open: normal; close: factory )
       J J J J J
       2 1 1 1 1
       0 9 8 7 6

Power  data-cable

J16: Idle mode latch ( open: disabled; close: enabled )
J17: drive model ( open: 7060A; close 7120A )
J18: ECC Bytes ( open: 7 bytes; close: 4 bytes )

Master/Slave: drive is master and alone    : J20 closed, J19 closed
              drive is master of two drives: J20 closed, J19 open
              drive is slave of two drives : J20 open  , J19 closed

Maxtor 7213A

Default (power-up) AT BIOS Translation Parameters (others possible)
Cyl   Hds  SpT  MBytes
683   16   38   212

There are two sets of jumpers. A set of 5 and a set of
4. With the power and IDE connector toward you, the set of 5 is
numbered (left to right) J16 - J20  , and the set of 4 is numbered
(bottom to top) J22-J25.

The only jumper of normal interest is J20. Jumper it for only
drive in a single drive system, or master drive in a dual drive
system.

Remove the jumper J20 for slave drive in a dual drive system.

J19 is a dummy and may be used to store the spare shunt if the
drive is configured for a slave mode.

Jumpers J17, J18, J24, J25 are factory reserved. Abnormal operation
may occur if jumpered.

Jumper 22 is sync spindle enabled/disabled  (open=disabled)
Jumper 23 is sync slave/master              (open=slave)
Jumper 16 is I/O Channel Ready              (open=disabled)

Maxtor 7245A (245Mb IDE; self-parking; Universal Translate):
Drive type : User defineable
Cyl    Hds    WPC    LZ     S/T
967    16     0      0      31      (WPC and LZ optional)

Master(2):  J20 closed
Slave(2):   J20 open (use J19 for shunt storage)
Single:     J20 closed

**********************   M I C R O P O L I S   ****************************

Drive		2105A		2112A
----------------------------------------
Unformatted MB	647		1220
Formatted MB	560		1050
Platters	5		8
Heads		8		15
Cylinders	1760		1760
----------------------------------------

Performance (both):

	Track to track (read)		1.5 msec
	Track to track (write)		2.5 msec
	Average				10 msec
	Max				25 msec
	Avg Rotational Latency		5.56 msec
	Rotational speed		5400 rpm (+/- 5%)
	Data Transfer Rate		upto 5Mbytes/sec
	Internal data rate		24-40 Mbits/sec

BIOS Settings:

2105A		1084 cyl	16 heads	63 sectors
2112A*	master	1024 cyl	16 heads	63 sectors
	slave	1010 cyl	16 heads	63 sectors

* the 2112A emulates both master and slave

Jumpers (labelled J6 on the drive)

	----
	|oo| W1\ only these 2 are used
	|oo| W2/
	|oo|
	|oo|
	|oo|
	----

	W2	W1
	--	--
	in	in	2112A only - drive emulates both master + slave
	in	out	Drive is master, slave is present
	out	in	Drive is slave
	out	out	Drive is master, no slave present (ie single drive)

**********************   M I C R O S C I E N C E   ****************************

MicroScience

Model: 7100-00
Heads: 7
Cylinders: 855
S/T: 35 (?)
Size: 105M

Model # 8040-00.
Size 40M  5hd/17sec/977cyl

**********************   M I N I S C R I B E    ****************************

Miniscribe

MODEL   AT               CAP   CYC  H  RWC  WPC ENC  RATE ACCESS  SPT COMMENTS
8225AT            3.5"    21   745  2  -    -        8    28 MS    28
8051AT            3.5"    42   745  4  -    -        8    28 MS    28
8450AT            3.5"    42   745  4  -    -        8    40 MS    28

Master(2):  5-6
Slave(2):   1-2
Single:     1-3 (shunt storage)

***************************   N E C   *********************************

NEC     D3735,  40 MB
BIOS:	Cyl 537     Head 4	sect 41

NEC	D3755,	105 MB
BIOS:	Cyl 625     Head 8	sect 41

NEC	D3741,	44 MB
BIOS:	Cyl 423	    Head 8	sect 26		WPcom 0		LZone 424

Jumper	JP12	JP13	    (for all above NEC drives)
Single  0       0
Master	1	0
Slave   1       1

There have been reported difficulties in using WD Caviar as Master and
NEC drives as slave - the other way it works.

***************************   Q U A N T U M   *************************

Logical Specs for Quantum AT Drives
COMPLIMENTS OF COMPUTER BROKERS OF CANADA

Model       Cap     Avg Acc	Cylinders     Heads    Sectors/Track
            (MB)     (ms)

40AT        42        19           965          5            17
80AT        84        19           965         10            17
120AT       120       15           814          9            32
170AT       168       15           968         10            34
210AT       209       15           873         13            36
425AT       426       14          1021         16            51
LPS  52AT   52        17           751          8            17
LPS  80AT   83        17           611         16            17
LPS 105AT   105       17           755         16            17
LPS 120AT   122       16           901          5            53
LPS 240AT   245       16           723         13            51

=================================================
Legend:  1=Jumper Installed  0=No Jumper
=================================================

40 & 80 AT Jumpers

DS  SS   Meaning
1   0    Single drive configuration
1   1    Master of dual drive
0   0    Slave of dual drive
0   1    Self-Seek Test

=======================================================

120, 170, 210 & 425 AT Jumpers

DS  SP  SS   Meaning
0   0   0    Slave when the Master is Quantum PRODRIVE other than 40/80A
0   0   1    Slave in PRODRIVE 40/80A mode
0   1   0    Slave when Master is non Quantum Drive
0   1   1    Not Used
1   0   1    Master drive PDIAG mode checking DASP for slave
1   1   0    Master in PDIAG mode using SP to check if slave present
1   1   1    Master in 40/80A mode using SP to check if slave present
1   0   0    Single drive

=======================================================

LPS 52, 80, 105, 120 & 240 AT Jumpers
DS  SP  DM*  Meaning
0   0   0    Slave in standard PDIAG mode for compatibility with drives that use
             PDIAG-line to handle Master/Slave communications
0   0   1    Slave in PRODRIVE 40/80A mode compat. without using PDIAG line
0   1   0    Self Test
0   1   1    Self Test
1   0   0    Master in PDIAG mode using DASP to check for Slave
1   0   1    Master in 40/80A Mode using DASP to check for Slave
1   1   0    Master in PDIAG mode using SP to check for Slave without
             checking DASP
1   1   1    Master in 40/80A mode using SP to check for Slave without
             checking DASP

======================================================================
* While my Spec form marked the jumper name DM, it is labeled as CS on
  my LPS 240AT drive.

The QUANTUM ELS series:

Model       Cap     Avg Acc     Cylinders     Heads    Sectors/Track
            (MB)     (ms)

ELS42AT        42        -           968          5             17
ELS85AT        85        -           977          10            17
ELS127AT       127       -           919          16            17
ELS170AT       170       -           1011         15            22

Write precomp = 0 for all Quantum drives ( probably no significance)
Landing Zone = Cylinders

Straps: If an ELS drive is
	master only, use DS
	master with slave, DS or, DS and SP in some cases
	slave, no strap

***************************   R O D I M E    *********************************

Information for RO 3008A and RO 3009A series hard disk drives:

Drive Types

   Model	Cyls	Hds	Sectors/Trk	 No. blocks	Formatted Cap.
  -------	----	---	-----------	 ----------	--------------
  RO3058A	868	 3	    34		   88,536	 45.33 MByets
  RO3088A	868	 5	    34		  147,560	 75.55 MByets
  RO3095A	923	 5	    34		  156,910	 80.33 MByets
  RO3128A	868	 7	    34		  206,584	105.77 MByets
  RO3135A	923	 7	    34		  219,674	112.47 MByets

  RO3059A	217	15	    28		   91,158	 46.67 MByets
  RO3089A	325	15	    28		  136,737	 70.00 MByets
  RO3129A	492	15	    28		  206,645	105.80 MByets
  RO3139A	523	15	    28		  219,735	112.50 MByets
  RO3209A	759	15	    28		  319,053	163.35 MByets
  RO3259A	976	15	    28		  410,211	210.02 MByets

Link Options

   In order to install the Rodime Ro 3000A series drives the dumpers for
the single/dual drive and LED operation on the drive need to be set as
described in the relevant product specification.
   I a single drive environment the drive is described as a Master.
   In a dual drive environment the drives are described as a Master and a
Slave. This is due to the protocal the takes place between the two drives
when performing diagnostics.
   There are four links, LK1, LK2, LK4 and LK5, adjacent to the 40 way
interface connector. They have the following functions and are described
in order as viewed from the end of the drive, with the first jumper
described nearest the 40 way interface connector.

LK2: LED
     When fitted, this jumper connects the LED drive to pin 39 of the
     interface. This allows a LED to be connected to the interface. An
     external current limiting resistor needs to be fitted in series with
     the LED when this option is selected. The value of the resistor will
     be dependant on the LED type chosen but will be in the range of 130
     Ohms ot 220 Ohms.

LK1: Dual Drives
     This jumper must be fitted when two drives are attached to a single
     bus. It fallows communication across the 40 way interface connector,
     indicating, to the Master drive, the presence of a Slave.

LK4: Master
     When fitted this signifies that the drive jumpered is a Master. If
     there are two drives connected on a single bus then only one may be
     jumpered in this way.

LK5: IOChRdy
     When fitted this connects the IOChRdy signal to the drive, it is
     fitted when the drive is used in host systems that have a higher
     data transfer rate than the drive i.e. greater than 4 MBytes per
     second when using 1:1 interleave. This jumper is not normally
     fitted as most hosts transfer at a lower rate than 4 MBytes per
     second.

   There are four possible Master/Slave configurations in which a drive(s)
may be jumpered:

     Master, single drive with LED on interface		LK2 & LK4 fitted.
     Master, single drive without LED on interface	LK4 only fitted.
     Master, dual drive without LED on interface	LK4 & LK1 fitted.
     Slave, dual drive without LED on interface		No jumpers fitted.
     Master, dual drive with LED on interface		LK4, LK1 & LK2 fitted.
     Slave, dual drive with LED on interface		LK2 only fitted.

   The Master drive will delay power-up for approximately two seconds to
reduce power surges in applications where dual drives are used.

   The other connections for a LED will be found close to the 28 way
connector at the other end of the drive. This LED driver is not affected
by the link options. An internal current limiting resistor is on the
drive for this LED driver. Refer to the product specification for further
details.

***************************   S E A G A T E   *************************

There is a list of most Seagate HD (including MFM, SCSI, ESDIand IDE) on
every Simtel mirror under

/msdos/dskutl/1seagate.zip

It contains info about the following drives:

	    st1144a	st138a	    st274a	st3283a
st1057a     st1156a	st1400a     st280a	st351ax
st1090a     st1162a	st1401a     st3051a	st9051a
st1102a     st1186a	st1480a     st3096a	st9077a
st1111a     st1201a	st157a	    st3120a	st9096a
st1126a     st1239a	st2274a     st3144a	st9144a
st1133a     st125a	st2383a     st325ax

*********************	T E A C   **************

Model: SD-3105

                Cyls.   Heads   Sect/T  PreCmp  LZone   Capacity
                ------  ------  ------  ------  ------  ---------
Physical         1282       4      40       -       -   105021440
BIOS (AMI)        641       8      40       0       0   105021440 (100.2M)
     (Award)      926      13      17       0       0   104778752  (99.9M)
     (Phoenix)    776       8      33       0       0   104890368 (100.0M)

Connectors and Jumpers:

   +----+                    1           Jumper  Function
   |....| +---+ +-------/ /---+   2 0       0    ON:  -ACT selected (ext.LED)
   |    | |...| |::::::/ /::::|  ::::            OFF: -SLV PRESENT selected
   +----+ +---+ +-----/ /-----+  3 1        1    ON:  Two HDD's
     J2     J7  40    J1         ----            OFF: Single HDD
   Power (Power)    Signal      Jumpers     2    ON:  Master (/Single)
                                                 OFF: Slave (with 2 units used)
                                            3    ON:  -I/O CH RDY not output
                                                 OFF: -I/O CH RDY is output
Master Slave Settings:

Jumper no.:   1     2
-----------------------
Single....:   0     1                            1, ON  = jumpered
Master....:   1     1                            0, OFF = not jumpered
Slave.....:   1     0

*********************	W E S T E R N	 D I G I T A L	 **************

Caviar series:

Name        Size (Mb)    Cylinders   Heads   Sectors
----------------------------------------------------
WDAC140      40.7         980            5        17
WDAC280      81.3         980           10        17
WDAC2120    119.0        1024           14        17
WDAC2170    162.7        1010            6        55
WDAC2200    202.8         989           12        35
WDAC2340    325.4        1010           12        55

Please note that these are the *recommended* CMOS parameters. All the disks
support so-called dynamic translation, and should thus be able to work with
any parameters having fewer sectors than the total number of sectors on
the disk.

Now, according to the manual, the jumper settings are as follows:

Jumper                               CP   MA   SL
-------------------------------------------------
Single                                0    0    0
Master                                0    1    0
Slave                                 0    0    1
Slave with Conner CP342 or CP3022     1    0    1

Maybe there are 2 kinds of Caviar's floating around:

If your jumpers read MA SL and SI then use:
Jumper	SI	MA	SL
Single	1	0	0
Master	0	1	0
Slave	0	0	1

There have been reported difficulties in using WD Caviar as Master and
NEC drives as slave - the other way it works.

WD93044-A  (40 MB)
BIOS-Settings
977 cyln, 5 heads, 17 sect, LZone: 977 ( wenn sie sie braucht )

+-------+ +---+---+---+  1: drive is master
+-------+ +---+---+---+  3: second drive is a conner-drive

No jumper set: this is the only drive.

********************  Useful telephone numbers...  ********************

Miniscribe:
  303-651-6000

Maxtor:
  Info/tech support: 800-262-9867
  FAX-back: 303-678-2618
  BBS: 303-678-2222
  They list their 800 number as 1(800)2-MAXTOR.

Quantum:
  408-894-4000
  408-944-0410 (Support)
  408-894-3218 (FAX)
  408-894-3214 (BBS)

Seagate:
  Info/tech support: 408-438-8222
  FAX-back: 408-438-2620
  BBS: 408-438-8771

*******************   last but not least   *****************

If I could help you with my little collection and if you live in a
part of the world far away from me, how about a postcard for my pinboard?
I will surely answer!


Where did you hear this?  I seem to have missed it.

No.  Will L.A. burn?  No.  (Regardless of the verdict.)

Count your blessings.


from Dean:

Yes, you're right. After going home and reading the paper, I got the
full details. That's what I get for making a post based on WDUQ's news.
I should know by now they get just about every sports related item wrong.


Nor mine, either of them!


# ## Face it, Clayton, he was not found guilty, and so what if gays sometimes
# ## make it consensually with 16 year old boys. There ARE 16 year old gays, you
# ## know. And as I recall, the case of the state rested on the testimony of one
# ## "victim" who declined to testify, even under threat. I have had teens since
# ## I was 40, and so have a lot of people. Face it Clayton, you're just a jerk!
# ## -RSW
# ## --
# ## * Richard STEVEn Walz   rstevew@deeptht.armory.com   (408) 429-1200  *
# ## * 515 Maple Street #1   * Without safe and free abortion women are   *
# ## * Santa Cruz, CA 95060    organ-surrogates to unwanted parasites.*   *
# #
# #I am always amazed to see people admit to breaking the law -- and
# #putting their address in the signature.  Please tell us more about
# #this.  Were they 13?  14?  Would you like to make a statement for
# #the district attorney?
#
# I had sex with a 13 year old boy, it was great, we did *everything*,
# well, a hell of a lot.  It was fun anyway.  Oh, and before you turn
# purple with rage I was 12 at the time.
# #--
# #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!

The Walz monster above, however, was past 40 when he molested these
kids, as he says above.


Subject says it all.  Do any exist?  Are they shareware?  Where?

Phil Trodwell


: Can anyone tell me where to find a MPEG viewer (either DOS or
: Windows).

: Thanks in advance.

: --
: Alan M. Jackson      Mail : ajackson@cch.cov.ac.uk

:      Liverpool Football Club - Simply The Best
:               "You'll Never Walk Alone"

You can find a Windows MPEG viewer at wuarchive.wustl.edu in the
mirrors/msdos/windows3 directory.

--


Again, Mr. Frank has come to the rescue with his cool headed reason.  How
about, "One charge per victim?"  Of course I'll think about it in a few days
and find a case where this doesn't apply either.

What the heck, I don't study law, I just hate lawyers. :)


Dynamic RAM is not based on flip-flops; there's basically a single
transistor and capacitor to store each bit!  Static RAM is based on
flip-flops, and is much more expensive and much less dense.  And
neither has any parts that "move", if electrons and thermal expansion
are ignored...

Chris


I think, as do the owners, that hockey will do well in Miami since there
is a lot of people from the Northeast that spend their winters in
Florida every year. As for the coverage, someone will have to come up
with some money for that since broadcast rights can be expensive!

Just my $0.02!

Dale


  For a commerical package try WAVE from  Precision Visuals
                                           505-530-6563

  For a free package try KHOROS from University of New Mexico
                                      508-277-6563
                                   ftp from
                              ptrg.eece.unm.edu

    Login in anonyomus or ftp  with a valid email address as the password
               cd /pub/khoros/release

   That will get you to the right place.


    I heard FASTMicro went out of business.  Is this true?
They don't answer their 800 number.  It's 800-821-9000.


Was the ABC coverage of the Kings/Flames game supposed to be the
way it was shown in BC with CBC overriding the ABC coverage?  When I flipped
to ABC, it was the same commentators, same commercials even.  My question
is:  Was this the real ABC coverage or did CBC just "black out" the
ABC coverage for its own?

	comment:

	CBC had a great chance for some double headers:  Toronto/Detroit
and Vancouver/Winnipeg, but today they said that the East gets the Leafs
and the West get the Vancouver game.  I thought that they would show them
both.


The actual algorithm is classified, however, their main thrust here is
for cellular phones, and encryption is only over the radio end, not
end to end, I think.   End to end will come later.

And of course you have to identify yourself to the phone company, and
since the phone company complies with court orders, they will know the
magic number of your chip when they sign out a warrant on you, and
then can present the warrant to the key escrow house.


Does it do it to all tapes?  Were the two tapes that it unwound of the same
type from the same batch?  The reason I ask is that I bought some generic tapes
that did this and found that the tape markers were not fully punched out and
had closed the little marker hole.  It was only on a few tapes of a set.

Did you open up the tape cartridge and put the tape back on the reels?

If you have not yet, open it up by removing the two screws on the bottom of
the tape cartridge and snap the plastic shell away from the metal base.
As you are pulling the tape through the assembly try not to touch any more
than you have to.  As you are doing it, look for a couple of little holes in
the tape.  These are the marker holes which let the tape drive know when it is
at the end of the tape.  The holes are spaced a couple of inches apart.  My best
guess is that the drive finds the first marker and then stops on the second
marker?

Anyhow, If the tape has the holes, then check to see if the mirror on the tape
is clean.  The function of the mirror is to detect the marker holes.  The
tape drive shines a light at the mirror and has a pickup in the area where
the reflection would come out.  When the hole goes by, the pickup detects the
light that was allowed to pass and it knows when to stop.  If the mirror is dirty
or out of alighment (unlikely since it is made into the case) you might have
a problem detecting the end of the tape.

If the tape drive does it on all tapes and the tapes all look good, then either
the pickup or the LED of the sensor system has failed or is dirty.  If you open
the drive door you will see the sensor assembly to the left of the R/W head
assembly.  If it looks clean and nothing is in its way, then the drive may
need to be serviced.  It is possible that the LED is burned out or the sensor
is out.

If it is still in warranty, you might be able to send it back to CMS for
repair.

---
Scott Hiles
whiles@relay.nswc.navy.mil


Interesting.  Does she know you have placed this info request on the
net for the world to see?  If not, how do you think she would react
if she found out?  Why would you accept the advice of unknown entities
rather than a counselor?

See the counselor.


Seeing as Motif has been adopted by Sun, IBM, HP +++ (can't remeber the
other members in the recent announcement), I'm sure you'll see it on
virtually every workstation (ie. Sun, IBM, HP and DEC must make up the
**VAST** majority of all hardware).

Ports of Motif to both 386BSD and Linux are available for a fee of about
$100.  This is cost recovery for the person who bought the rights to
redistribute.  The activity in both the BSD and Linux news groups
pertaining to Motif has been high.

I can't see why.  If just about every workstation will come with Motif
by default and you can buy it for under $100 for the "free" UNIX
platforms, I can't see this causing major problems.

Side Note :
---------
All the X based code I am writing (and will distribute freely when
completed) is based on Motif because from a programmatic and also "look
and feel" point of view I like it the best (no flames on this one
please).

bambi


	It seems radio reports were overly optimistic.  All Clinton wants to
cut is $2.5 Billion for community block grants, keeping in summer jobs.

	Hmmm, well, looks like we need to keep up the pressure on our
congresspersons.


Jammer !

 Dit is geen fantastische advertentie over nep-rolexen
 maar een evenzo duidelijke mededeling hieromtrent :

 Aangezien het alleen al aanbieden van deze horloges onder
 vermelding van de echte merknaam niet geheel correct is,
 wil ik met dit bericht duidelijk maken dat ik, Marcel Engelbertink,
 niet meer zal adverteren met imitatie-horloges van het merk ROLEX.

 Enig persoon die hierin geiinteresseerd is kan ik jammer genoeg ook niet
 meer helpen.

 For all the foreign people who can't even understand dutch ?!? :

 In spite of earlier mailing about fake-rolex's, I announce that I
 don't have any information available any longer and I won't use
 the trade name ROLEX anymore for those fake models.

 Yours fakefully,


Hi everybody,

Can anyone name an anonymous ftp-site where I can find the sources
of the PBM-PLUS package (portable bit/gray/pixel map).
I would like to compile and run it on a Sun Sparcstation.


Does anyone have some information on the relative fraction of the final
cost of each component in an average hard drive?  For instance, I'm pretty
sure the heads and the platters are the most expensive parts, with the
assembly costs running a close third.  Cost of the electronics is likely
in the noise.
  Any hard numbers ($$ or percentage)?  Thanks.

+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+


Forgive me if this is a FAQ (I have checked the list but I cant find it).

I have a problem with the cursor within Xterm on MONO (not grayscale monitors)
The problem is that when I have an character application that displays input
fields in reverse video the Xterm text cursor gets lost on the edge of the
input field.

The solution would appear to be to set the xterm cursor to a line rather
than a block, but how do you do this. I can't find any means although
various sources seem to indicate it can be done.

When the xterm loses the input focus the cursor becomes an outlined block.
This would also be preferable but I can't seem to force this to be the
default either.

Configuration is  : Motorola 88K X11R4

Please reply by email if poss.

Thank you

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Weet - European Mis - Motorola Cellular Subscriber Group
Beechgreen Court, Chineham, Basingstoke, HANTS England.
Phone : +44 (0)256 790154  E-Mail  stevew@chineham.euro.csg.mot.com
Fax   : +44 (0)256 817481  Mobile  : +44 (0)850 335105  Post : w10075

--


High power assault gun?  Why, you must be talking about the 155mm Howitzer.

Or did you want to try a 16 incher?  Or one of the German railway guns?


Phew! That takes a load off. I don't want to live forever.  I wish
most Christians held this view.  You can't walk across campus in
spring without being assailed by fire-and-brimstone preachers.  I
really think the metaphor should be limited, at least with respect to
teaching our children.  It's criminal to put these ideas into a young
and trusting mind.  Besides, why not rely on the positive aspects of
your religion to win their faith?

-Tim


	This appears to be generic calling upon the name of the anti-christ.
Just for the hell of it, let's destroy this remark. Let us imagine that
the executive branch actually could extract keys from the escrow houses
without anyone knowing, or telling. Now what? Dick has 80 bits of data.
What the hell's he gonna do with it?

	1) Trot around to the telco and say 'we'd like an unauthorised
decrypting tap'. Uh huh.
	2) Break in to watergate and install his own tap (so his people still
do have to break in, neat, huh?) record some noise, then get the Executive
Branch Phone Decryption Box (huh? they've got one? Goodness, wait 'til the
washington post gets hold of this) and decrypt the noise.
	3) More likely, stare at the key, and say 'Oh, hell it's not
worth all this bloody hassle'

	Truth is, even granted *lots* of covert power on the part of
the Executive Branch, this system is *more* difficult to tap with than
POTS gear. The fact that it is easier to tap than some hypothetical
system neither you nor I am going to place on our phones is neither
here nor there.

	The only rational concerns I am seeing raised are:

	a) is the key really just chopped in half, and not some XOR
arrangement? That is, has some egregious technical error been built
in to the plan?
	b) is this is the first step toward strict regulation of strong
encryption?

	This is b), of course. I suspect not. If the government actually
wanted to make such regs, they'd just do it. A few hundred people on Usenet
yelling about it wouldn't even slow the machine down.

	Besides, who is this mysterious 'they' who's going to take away
all our rights the instant we let our guard down? Congress? That gang
of buffoons can't even balance their checkbooks. The FBI? But.. they
don't make the laws. The NSA? Ditto. The white house? Bill Clinton
is probably still looking for the bathroom. It's a big place, after all.

	Andrew


Did you miss my post on this topic with the quote from The Indonesian
Handbook and Fred Rice's comments about temporary marriages?  If so,
I will be glad to repost them.  Will you accept that it just may be
a practice among some Muslims, if I do?  Or will you continue to claim
that we are all lying and that it is "not practised at all amongst Muslims".

I don't think F. Karner has to tell everyone anything.  Least of all that
he is lying.


: I need to know the Pins to connect to make a loopback connector for a serial
: port so I can build one.  The loopback connector is used to test the
: serial port.
:
: Thanks for any help.
:
:
: Steve
:
Me Too!!!!!!!
skcgoh@tartarus.uwa.edu.au


	That really depends upon where you draw the line while defining
these weapons, and also on if you intend the law to be reflective of
modern practice five months or five centuries down the road.  I'll give
you a little hint:  see that manure pile in the farmer's field down the
road?  In the USA, that is a weapon of mass destruction, biological in
nature, because if it gets washed into an open well it will contaminate
the aquifers that supply thousands of cities with drinking water.  So,
where do *you* draw the line?  In the USA, the EPA has ruled that
a pile of scrap iron is illegal.  Care to draw a thinner line this time?


This reminds me of the last Graham Kerr cooking show I saw.  Today he
smoked meat on the stovetop in a big pot!  He used a strange technique
I'd never seen before.

He took a big pot with lid, and placed a tray in it made from aluminum foil.
The tray was about the size and shape of a typical coffee-table ash tray,
made by crumpling a sheet of foil around the edges.

In the tray, he placed a couple spoonfuls of brown sugar, a similar
quantity of brown rice (he said any rice will do), the contents of two
teabags of Earl Grey tea, and a few cloves.

On top of this was placed an ordinary aluminum basket-type steamer, with
two chicken breasts in it.  The lid was put on, and the whole assembly
went on the stovetop at high heat for 10 or 12 minutes.

Later, he removed what looked like smoked chicken breasts.  What surprises
and concerns me are:

1)  No wood chips.  Where does the smoke flavor come from?

2)  About 5 or 10 years ago, I remember hearing that carmel color
    (obtained by caramelizing sugar -- a common coloring and flavoring
    agent) had been found to be carcinogenic.  I believe they injected
    it under the skin of rats, or something.  If the results were conclusive,
    caramel color would not be legal in the U.S., yet it is still being
    used.  Was the initial research result found to be incorrect, or what?

3)  About 5 or 10 years ago, I remember Earl Grey tea being implicated
    as carcinogenic, because it contains oil of bergamot (an extract
    from the skin of a type of citrus fruit).  Does anyone know whatever
    happened with that story?  If it were carcinogenic, Earl Grey tea
    could not have it as an additive, yet it apparently continues to do
    so.

WRT natural wood smoke (I've smoking a duck right now, as it happens),
I've noticed that a heavily-smoked food item will have an unpleasant tangy
taste when eaten directly out of the smoker if the smoke has only recently
stopped flowing.  I find the best taste to be had by using dry wood chips,
getting lots of smoke right up at the beginning of the cooking process,
then slowly barbequing for hours and hours without adding additional wood chips.

My theory is that the unpleasant tangy molecules are low-molecular weight
stuff, like terpenes, and that the smoky flavor molecules are some sort
of larger molecule more similar to tar.  The long barbeque time after
the initial intensive smoke drives off the low-molecular weight stuff,
just leaving the flavor behind.  Does anyone know if my theory is correct?

I also remember hearing that the combustion products of fat dripping
on the charcoal and burning are carcinogenic.  For that reason, and because
it covers the product with soot and some unpleasant tanginess, I only grill
non-drippy meats like prawns directly over hot coals.  I do stuff like this
duck by indirect heat.  I have a long rectangular Weber, and I put the coals
at one end and the meat at the other end.  The fat drops directly on the
floor below the meat, and next time I use the barbeque I make the fire
in that end to burn off the fat and help ignite the coals.

And yet another reason I've heard not to smoke or barbeque meat is that
smoked cured meat, like pork sausage and bacon, contains
nitrosamines, which are carcinogenic.  I'm pretty sure this claim actually
has some standing, don't know about the others.


God CAN be seen:
        "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."
        (Ex. 33:23)
        "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his
        friend." (Ex. 33:11)
        "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
        (Gen. 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
        "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
        "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man
        see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
        "Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)


Woah...The context is about God's calling out a special people (the Jews) to
carry the "promise."  To read the meaning as literal people is to miss Paul's
entire point.  I'd be glad to send anyone more detailed explanations of this
passage if interested.


I should probably re-post this with another title, so that
the guys on the other thread would see that this is a practical
use of "temporary orbits..."

Another possible temporary orbit:


I've acquired an old Logitech Series 7 (3-button) mouse, and I'm told
that this is a bus mouse.  Does anyone want to unload an old
(pc-clone) bus-card for this mouse?

email replies to:  bobmon@cs.indiana.edu


Can someone send me ticket ordering information for the
following teams:  Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston.

Also, if you have a home schedule available - can you tell me the dates
for all home games between July26-Aug6 and between Aug30-Sept10 and if
any of these games are promotion nights or special discount nights?

Thanks !!!  Ron

PS: and also who the opponents are for these games :-)

Do NOT reply to this account,
please reply to:  ronc@vnet.ibm.com


I need a device (either an ISA board or a subsystem) which will
take two RGB video signals and combine them according to a template.
The template can be as simple as a rectangular window with signal
one being used for the interior and signal two for the exterior.
But I beleive fancier harware may also exist which I do not want
to exclude from my search.  I know this sort of hardware exists
for NTSC, etc. but I need it for RGB.

Please email and or post any leads....


[Stuff deleted]

Check with the local fire department.  My buddy is a firefighter and they
have these small map books which are Amazing!  They are compact, easy to
use (no folding).  They even have a cross reference section in which you
match your current cross streets with the cross streets you want to go to
and it details the quickest route.  They gave me an extra they had laying
around.  But then again I know all those people I'm not really sure if they
are supposed to give/sell them. (The police may also have something
similar).

--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ..vela.acs.oakland.edu!psgi!todd  | '88 RM125 The only bike sold without
  Todd Doolittle                    |           a red-line.
  Troy, MI                          | '88 EX500
  DoD #0832                         |


Saku isn't that small any longer I guess I heard he is 177cm tall at the
moment and will still grow 6-8cm.


Archive-name: atheism/resources
Alt-atheism-archive-name: resources
Last-modified: 11 December 1992
Version: 1.0

                              Atheist Resources

                      Addresses of Atheist Organizations

                                     USA

FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION

Darwin fish bumper stickers and assorted other atheist paraphernalia are
available from the Freedom From Religion Foundation in the US.

Write to:  FFRF, P.O. Box 750, Madison, WI 53701.
Telephone: (608) 256-8900

EVOLUTION DESIGNS

Evolution Designs sell the "Darwin fish".  It's a fish symbol, like the ones
Christians stick on their cars, but with feet and the word "Darwin" written
inside.  The deluxe moulded 3D plastic fish is $4.95 postpaid in the US.

Write to:  Evolution Designs, 7119 Laurel Canyon #4, North Hollywood,
           CA 91605.

People in the San Francisco Bay area can get Darwin Fish from Lynn Gold --
try mailing <figmo@netcom.com>.  For net people who go to Lynn directly, the
price is $4.95 per fish.

AMERICAN ATHEIST PRESS

AAP publish various atheist books -- critiques of the Bible, lists of
Biblical contradictions, and so on.  One such book is:

"The Bible Handbook" by W.P. Ball and G.W. Foote.  American Atheist Press.
372 pp.  ISBN 0-910309-26-4, 2nd edition, 1986.  Bible contradictions,
absurdities, atrocities, immoralities... contains Ball, Foote: "The Bible
Contradicts Itself", AAP.  Based on the King James version of the Bible.

Write to:  American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 140195, Austin, TX 78714-0195.
      or:  7215 Cameron Road, Austin, TX 78752-2973.
Telephone: (512) 458-1244
Fax:       (512) 467-9525

PROMETHEUS BOOKS

Sell books including Haught's "Holy Horrors" (see below).

Write to:  700 East Amherst Street, Buffalo, New York 14215.
Telephone: (716) 837-2475.

An alternate address (which may be newer or older) is:
Prometheus Books, 59 Glenn Drive, Buffalo, NY 14228-2197.

AFRICAN-AMERICANS FOR HUMANISM

An organization promoting black secular humanism and uncovering the history of
black freethought.  They publish a quarterly newsletter, AAH EXAMINER.

Write to:  Norm R. Allen, Jr., African Americans for Humanism, P.O. Box 664,
           Buffalo, NY 14226.

                                United Kingdom

Rationalist Press Association          National Secular Society
88 Islington High Street               702 Holloway Road
London N1 8EW                          London N19 3NL
071 226 7251                           071 272 1266

British Humanist Association           South Place Ethical Society
14 Lamb's Conduit Passage              Conway Hall
London WC1R 4RH                        Red Lion Square
071 430 0908                           London WC1R 4RL
fax 071 430 1271                       071 831 7723

The National Secular Society publish "The Freethinker", a monthly magazine
founded in 1881.

                                   Germany

IBKA e.V.
Internationaler Bund der Konfessionslosen und Atheisten
Postfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany.

IBKA publish a journal:
MIZ. (Materialien und Informationen zur Zeit. Politisches
Journal der Konfessionslosesn und Atheisten. Hrsg. IBKA e.V.)
MIZ-Vertrieb, Postfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany.

For atheist books, write to:

IBDK, Internationaler B"ucherdienst der Konfessionslosen
Postfach 3005, D-3000 Hannover 1. Germany.
Telephone: 0511/211216

                               Books -- Fiction

THOMAS M. DISCH

"The Santa Claus Compromise"
Short story.  The ultimate proof that Santa exists.  All characters and
events are fictitious.  Any similarity to living or dead gods -- uh, well...

WALTER M. MILLER, JR

"A Canticle for Leibowitz"
One gem in this post atomic doomsday novel is the monks who spent their lives
copying blueprints from "Saint Leibowitz", filling the sheets of paper with
ink and leaving white lines and letters.

EDGAR PANGBORN

"Davy"
Post atomic doomsday novel set in clerical states.  The church, for example,
forbids that anyone "produce, describe or use any substance containing...
atoms".

PHILIP K. DICK

Philip K. Dick Dick wrote many philosophical and thought-provoking short
stories and novels.  His stories are bizarre at times, but very approachable.
He wrote mainly SF, but he wrote about people, truth and religion rather than
technology.  Although he often believed that he had met some sort of God, he
remained sceptical.  Amongst his novels, the following are of some relevance:

"Galactic Pot-Healer"
A fallible alien deity summons a group of Earth craftsmen and women to a
remote planet to raise a giant cathedral from beneath the oceans.  When the
deity begins to demand faith from the earthers, pot-healer Joe Fernwright is
unable to comply.  A polished, ironic and amusing novel.

"A Maze of Death"
Noteworthy for its description of a technology-based religion.

"VALIS"
The schizophrenic hero searches for the hidden mysteries of Gnostic
Christianity after reality is fired into his brain by a pink laser beam of
unknown but possibly divine origin.  He is accompanied by his dogmatic and
dismissively atheist friend and assorted other odd characters.

"The Divine Invasion"
God invades Earth by making a young woman pregnant as she returns from
another star system.  Unfortunately she is terminally ill, and must be
assisted by a dead man whose brain is wired to 24-hour easy listening music.

MARGARET ATWOOD

"The Handmaid's Tale"
A story based on the premise that the US Congress is mysteriously
assassinated, and fundamentalists quickly take charge of the nation to set it
"right" again.  The book is the diary of a woman's life as she tries to live
under the new Christian theocracy.  Women's right to own property is revoked,
and their bank accounts are closed; sinful luxuries are outlawed, and the
radio is only used for readings from the Bible.  Crimes are punished
retroactively: doctors who performed legal abortions in the "old world" are
hunted down and hanged.  Atwood's writing style is difficult to get used to
at first, but the tale grows more and more chilling as it goes on.

VARIOUS AUTHORS

"The Bible"
This somewhat dull and rambling work has often been criticized.  However, it
is probably worth reading, if only so that you'll know what all the fuss is
about.  It exists in many different versions, so make sure you get the one
true version.

                             Books -- Non-fiction

PETER DE ROSA

"Vicars of Christ", Bantam Press, 1988
Although de Rosa seems to be Christian or even Catholic this is a very
enlighting history of papal immoralities, adulteries, fallacies etc.
(German translation: "Gottes erste Diener. Die dunkle Seite des Papsttums",
Droemer-Knaur, 1989)

MICHAEL MARTIN

"Atheism: A Philosophical Justification", Temple University Press,
 Philadelphia, USA.
A detailed and scholarly justification of atheism.  Contains an outstanding
appendix defining terminology and usage in this (necessarily) tendentious
area.  Argues both for "negative atheism" (i.e. the "non-belief in the
existence of god(s)") and also for "positive atheism" ("the belief in the
non-existence of god(s)").  Includes great refutations of the most
challenging arguments for god; particular attention is paid to refuting
contempory theists such as Platinga and Swinburne.
541 pages. ISBN 0-87722-642-3 (hardcover; paperback also available)

"The Case Against Christianity", Temple University Press
A comprehensive critique of Christianity, in which he considers
the best contemporary defences of Christianity and (ultimately)
demonstrates that they are unsupportable and/or incoherent.
273 pages. ISBN 0-87722-767-5

JAMES TURNER

"Without God, Without Creed", The Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore,
 MD, USA
Subtitled "The Origins of Unbelief in America".  Examines the way in which
unbelief (whether agnostic or atheistic)  became a mainstream alternative
world-view.  Focusses on the period 1770-1900, and while considering France
and Britain the emphasis is on American, and particularly New England
developments.  "Neither a religious history of secularization or atheism,
Without God, Without Creed is, rather, the intellectual history of the fate
of a single idea, the belief that God exists."
316 pages. ISBN (hardcover) 0-8018-2494-X (paper) 0-8018-3407-4

GEORGE SELDES (Editor)

"The great thoughts", Ballantine Books, New York, USA
A "dictionary of quotations" of a different kind, concentrating on statements
and writings which, explicitly or implicitly, present the person's philosophy
and world-view.  Includes obscure (and often suppressed) opinions from many
people.  For some popular observations, traces the way in which various
people expressed and twisted the idea over the centuries.  Quite a number of
the quotations are derived from Cardiff's "What Great Men Think of Religion"
and Noyes' "Views of Religion".
490 pages. ISBN (paper) 0-345-29887-X.

RICHARD SWINBURNE

"The Existence of God (Revised Edition)", Clarendon Paperbacks, Oxford
This book is the second volume in a trilogy that began with "The Coherence of
Theism" (1977) and was concluded with "Faith and Reason" (1981).  In this
work, Swinburne attempts to construct a series of inductive arguments for the
existence of God.  His arguments, which are somewhat tendentious and rely
upon the imputation of late 20th century western Christian values and
aesthetics to a God which is supposedly as simple as can be conceived, were
decisively rejected in Mackie's "The Miracle of Theism".  In the revised
edition of "The Existence of God", Swinburne includes an Appendix in which he
makes a somewhat incoherent attempt to rebut Mackie.

J. L. MACKIE

"The Miracle of Theism", Oxford
This (posthumous) volume contains a comprehensive review of the principal
arguments for and against the existence of God.  It ranges from the classical
philosophical positions of Descartes, Anselm, Berkeley, Hume et al, through
the moral arguments of Newman, Kant and Sidgwick, to the recent restatements
of the classical theses by Plantinga and Swinburne.  It also addresses those
positions which push the concept of God beyond the realm of the rational,
such as those of Kierkegaard, Kung and Philips, as well as "replacements for
God" such as Lelie's axiarchism.  The book is a delight to read - less
formalistic and better written than Martin's works, and refreshingly direct
when compared with the hand-waving of Swinburne.

JAMES A. HAUGHT

"Holy Horrors: An Illustrated History of Religious Murder and Madness",
 Prometheus Books
Looks at religious persecution from ancient times to the present day -- and
not only by Christians.
Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 89-64079. 1990.

NORM R. ALLEN, JR.

"African American Humanism: an Anthology"
See the listing for African Americans for Humanism above.

GORDON STEIN

"An Anthology of Atheism and Rationalism", Prometheus Books
An anthology covering a wide range of subjects, including 'The Devil, Evil
and Morality' and 'The History of Freethought'.  Comprehensive bibliography.

EDMUND D. COHEN

"The Mind of The Bible-Believer", Prometheus Books
A study of why people become Christian fundamentalists, and what effect it
has on them.

                                Net Resources

There's a small mail-based archive server at mantis.co.uk which carries
archives of old alt.atheism.moderated articles and assorted other files.  For
more information, send mail to archive-server@mantis.co.uk saying

   help
   send atheism/index

and it will mail back a reply.


If I am not mistaken, the Jewish family names Cohen, Kahn, etc.
are considered to be legitimate indicators of descent from Aaron.
The family names Levi, Levene, etc. are considered to be legitimate
indicators of descent from Levi. The main legal issue is the purification
of the priesthood, which is supposed to involve finding the ashes of
of the red heifer last used for this purpose 2000 years ago.
_______________________________________________________________________________


I don't think this is the case, at least not on all jetskis.  On my
friend's jetski, bars turn left to go left.  Anyway, all you're doing
there is changing the yaw of the jets, so the relationship between
the handlbars and the rear-mounted jets is completely arbitrary
(simple linkage could make it work either way).

It seems to me that jetskis are even more irrelevant to this discussion
than snow skis.  But it *has* been an amusing digression.

Hey Ed, how do you explain the fact that you pull on a horse's reins
left to go left?  :-)  Or am I confusing two threads here?