True.  At first, the news media seemed entranced by all the new gizmos
the military was using, not to mention the taped video transmissions from
the missiles as they zeroed in on their targets.  But later, and especially
after the bunker full of civilians was hit, they changed their tone.  It
seemed to me that they didn't have the stomach for the reality of war,
that innocent people really do die and are maimed in warfare.  It's like
they were only pro-Gulf-War as long as it was "nice and clean" (smart
missiles dropping in on military HQs), but not when pictures of dead,
dying, and maimed civilians started cropping up.  What naive hypocrites!

[ discussion about blanket-bombing and A-bombs deleted.]
                            ^^^^^^^^^

I should have said here "militarily justified".  It seems from your
comments below that you understood this as meaning "morally justified".
I apologize.

I have often wondered about this.  I've always thought that the first bomb
should have been dropped on Japan's island fortress of Truk.  A good,
inpenatrable military target.  The second bomb could've been held back
for use on an industrial center if need be.  But I digress.

Yes, I have heard that we found evidence (after the war, BTW) that Japan
was seriously considering surrender after the first bomb.  Unfortunately,
the military junta won out over the moderates and rejected the US's
ulimatum.  Therefore the second bomb was dropped.  Most unfortunate, IMO.

I don't regret the fact that sometimes military decisions have to be made
which affect the lives of innocent people.  But I do regret the
circumstances which make those decisions necessary, and I regret the
suffering caused by those decisions.

[...]

Actually, it was the fact that both situations existed that prompted US
and allied action.  If some back-water country took over some other
back-water country, we probably wouldn't intervene.  Not that we don't
care, but we can't be the world's policman.  Or if a coup had occured
in Kuwait (instead of an invasion), then we still wouldn't have acted
because there would not have been the imminent danger perceived to
Saudi Arabia.  But the combination of the two, an unprovoked invasion
by a genocidal tyrant AND the potential danger to the West's oil
interests, caused us to take action.

[...]

I'm not setting up a strawman at all.  If you want to argue against the
war, then the only logical alternative was to allow Hussein to keep
Kuwait.  Diplomatic alternatives, including sanctions, were ineffective.

Well, in a sense, yes.  They probably had no idea of what end Hitler
would lead their nation to.

They suffered along with the rest.  Why does this bother you so much?
The world is full of evil, and circumstances are not perfect.  Many
innocents suffer due to the wrongful actions of others.  It it regretable,
but that's The-Way-It-Is.  There are no perfect solutions.

[...]

Probably because we're not the saviors of the world.  We can't police each
and every country that decides to self-destruct or invade another.  Nor
are we in a strategic position to get relief to Tibet, East Timor, or
some other places.

Tell me how we could stop them and I'll support it.  I, for one, do not
agree with the present US policy of "sucking up to them" as you put it.
I agree that it is deplorable.

Are they?  Or are they supposed to reflect the population of the locale
where the trial is held?  (Normally this is where the crime is committed
unless one party or the other can convince the judge a change of venue
is in order.)  I'm not an expert on California law, or even US law, but
it seems that this is the way the system is set up.  You can criticize
the system, but let's not have unfounded allegations of racial
prejudice thrown around.

No, not at all.  The point is that the fact that there were no blacks
on the first jury and that Rodney King is black is totally irrelevant.

Germans, perhaps.  "Peers" doesn't mean "those who do the same thing",
like having murderers judge murderers.  It means "having people from
the same station in life", presumably because they are in a better
position to understand the defendent's motivation(s).

OK, granted.  However, you are using this reasoning as part of *your*
logical argument in this discussion.  This is not a court of law.

The media is not totally monolithic.  Even though there is a prevailing
liberal bias, programs such as the MacNeil-Lehrer News Hour try to give
a balanced and fair reporting of the news.  There are even conservative
sources out there if you know where to look.  (Hurrah for Rush!)

BTW, I never used the word "conspiracy".  I don't accept (without *far*
more evidence) theories that there is some all-pervading liberal
conspiracy attempting to take over all news sources.

Hardly.  I didn't say that it's a Good Thing [tm] to kill innocent people
if the end is just.  Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and
there are no perfect solutions.  If one is going to  resist tyranny, then
innocent people on both sides are going to suffer and die.  I didn't say
it is OK -- it is unfortunate, but sometimes necessary.

I would agree that it was evil in the sense that it caused much pain
and suffering.  I'm not so sure that it was unnecessary as you say.  That
conclusion can only be arrived at by evaluating all the factors involved.
And perhaps it *was* unnecessary as (let's say) we now know.  That doesn't
mean that those who had to make the decision to bomb didn't see it as
being necessary.  Rarely can one have full known of the consequences of
an action before making a decision.  At the time it may have seemed
necessary enough to go ahead with it.

But don't assume that I feel the bombing was *morally* justified -- I
don't!  I just don't condemn those who had to make a difficult
decision under difficult circumstances.

You certainly are not in such a position if you are a moral relativist.
I, as an absolutist, am in a position to judge, but I defer judgment.

Wrong.  They were neither moral then nor now.  They seemed necessary to
those making the decisions to bring a quick end to the war.  I simply
refuse to condemn them for their decision.

One day I will stand before Jesus and give account of every word and action;
even this discourse in this forum.  I understand the full ramifications of
that, and I am prepared to do so.  I don't believe that you can make the
same claim.

And BTW, the reason I brought up the blanket-bombing in Germany was
because you were bemoaning the Iraqi civilian casualties as being
"so deplorable".  Yet blanket bombing was instituted because bombing
wasn't accurate enough to hit industrial/military targets in a
decisive way by any other method at that time.  But in the Gulf War,
precision bombing was the norm.  So the point was, why make a big
stink about the relatively few civilian casualties that resulted
*in spite of* precision bombing, when so many more civilians
(proportionately and quantitatively) died under the blanket bombing
in WW2?  Even with precision bombing, mistakes happen and some
civilians suffer.  But less civilians suffered in this war than
any other iany other in history!  Many Iraqi civilians went about their lives
with minimal interference from the allied air raids.  The stories
of "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqi civilian dead is just plain bunk.
Yes, bunk.  The US lost 230,000 servicemen in WW2 over four years
and the majority of them were directly involved in fighting!  But
we are expected to swallow that "hundreds of thousands" of
*civilian* Iraqis died in a war lasting about 2 months!  And with
the Allies using the most precise bombs ever created at that!
What hogwash.  If "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqi civilians died,
it was due to actions Hussein took on his own people, not due to
the Allied bombing.

Regards,


Short of changes by the feds, there is no way.  Codeine alone is very
difficult to prescribe without a lot of hassles.  Tylenol #3 is the
best compromise.  That way he can get refills.  The amount of acetominophen
he is getting with his codeine won't hurt him any.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon."


If a 'dog's prayers were answered, bones would rain from the sky.
Did you know that the word 'Karabag' itself is a 'Turkish' name?
Before 1827, before the Russians and their 'zavalli kole' Armenians,
drove all the Turks/Muslims out, it was a Turkish majority town. Well,
anyway, it is not surprising that Armenians also collaborated with the
Nazis.

 "Wholly opportunistic the Dashnaktzoutun have been variously
  pro-Nazi, pro-Russia, pro-Soviet Armenia, pro-Arab, pro-Jewish,
  as well as anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, anti-Communist, and
  anti-Soviet - whichever was expedient."[1]

[1] John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), 'Cairo to Damascus,'
    Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1951, p. 438.

As a dear friend put it, the Tzeghagrons (Armenian Racial Patriots)
was the youth organization of the Dashnaktzoutun. It was based in
Boston (where ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle is located) but
had followers in Armenian colonies all over the world. Literally
Tzeghagron means 'to make a religion of one's race.' The architect
of the Armenian Racial Patriots was Garegin Nezhdeh, a Nazi Armenian
who became a key leader of collaboration with Hitler in World War II.
In 1933, he had been invited to the United States by the Central
Committee of the Dashnaktzoutun to inspire and organize the
American-Armenian youth. Nezhdeh succeeded in unifying many local
Armenian youth groups in the Tzeghagrons. Starting with 20
chapters in the initial year, the Tzeghagrons grew to 60 chapters
and became the largest and most powerful Nazi Armenian organization.
Nezhdeh also provided the Tzeghagrons with a philosophy:

 "The Racial Religious beliefs in his racial blood as a deity.
  Race above everything and before everything. Race comes first."[1]

[1] Quoted in John Roy Carlson (real name Arthur Derounian), "The
    Armenian Displaced Persons," in 'Armenian Affairs,' Winter,
    1949-50, p. 19, footnote.

Now wait, there is more.

THE GRUESOME extent of February's killings of Azeris by Armenians
in the town  of Hojali is at last emerging  in Azerbaijan - about
600 men,  women and  children dead  in the  worst outrage  of the
four-year war over Nagorny Karabakh.

The figure  is drawn  from Azeri investigators,  Hojali officials
and casualty lists published in the Baku press. Diplomats and aid
workers say the death toll is in line with their own estimates.

The 25  February attack on Hojali  by Armenian forces was  one of
the last moves  in their four-year campaign to  take full control
of Nagorny Karabakh,  the subject of a new  round of negotiations
in Rome on Monday. The bloodshed was something between a fighting
retreat and  a massacre, but  investigators say that most  of the
dead were civilians. The awful  number of people killed was first
suppressed by  the fearful  former Communist government  in Baku.
Later  it  was blurred  by  Armenian  denials and  grief-stricken
Azerbaijan's wild  and contradictory  allegations of up  to 2,000
dead.

The State Prosecuter, Aydin Rasulov,  the cheif investigator of a
15-man  team  looking  into  what Azerbaijan  calls  the  "Hojali
Disaster", said  his figure of 600  people dead was a  minimum on
preliminary  findings.  A similar  estimate  was  given by  Elman
Memmedov, the mayor of Hojali. An  even higher one was printed in
the Baku newspaper  Ordu in May - 479 dead  people named and more
than 200 bodies reported unidentified.  This figure of nearly 700
dead is quoted as official by Leila Yunusova, the new spokeswoman
of the Azeri Ministry of Defence.

FranCois Zen  Ruffinen, head  of delegation of  the International
Red Cross  in Baku, said  the Muslim imam  of the nearby  city of
Agdam had reported a figure of  580 bodies received at his mosque
from  Hojali, most  of  them  civilians. "We  did  not count  the
bodies. But  the figure seems  reasonable. It is no  fantasy," Mr
Zen Ruffinen said. "We have some idea since we gave the body bags
and products to wash the dead."

Mr  Rasulov endeavours  to give  an unemotional  estimate of  the
number of  dead in the  massacre. "Don't  get worked up.  It will
take  several months  to  get a  final  figure," the  43-year-old
lawyer said at his small office.

Mr Rasulov  knows about these  things. It  took him two  years to
reach  a firm  conclusion that  131  people were  killed and  714
wounded  when  Soviet  troops  and tanks  crushed  a  nationalist
uprising in Baku in January 1990.

Those  nationalists, the  Popular  Front, finally  came to  power
three weeks  ago and  are applying pressure  to find  out exactly
what  happened when  Hojali, an  Azeri town  which lies  about 70
miles from the border with Armenia, fell to the Armenians.

Officially, 184 people have so  far been certified as dead, being
the  number of  people that  could be  medically examined  by the
republic's forensic department. "This  is just a small percentage
of the dead," said Rafiq Youssifov, the republic's chief forensic
scientist. "They were the only bodies brought to us. Remember the
chaos and the fact that we are  Muslims and have to wash and bury
our dead within 24 hours."

Of these 184 people, 51 were women, and 13 were children under 14
years old.  Gunshots killed  151 people,  shrapnel killed  20 and
axes or  blunt instruments  killed 10.  Exposure in  the highland
snows killed the last three.  Thirty-three people showed signs of
deliberate mutilation, including ears,  noses, breasts or penises
cut off and  eyes gouged out, according  to Professor Youssifov's
report. Those 184 bodies examined were less than a third of those
believed to have been killed, Mr Rasulov said.

Files  from  Mr  Rasulov's  investigative  commission  are  still
disorganised -  lists of 44  Azeri militiamen are dead  here, six
policemen there,  and in handwriting  of a mosque  attendant, the
names of  111 corpses brought to  be washed in just  one day. The
most heartbreaking account from  850 witnesses interviewed so far
comes  from Towfiq  Manafov,  an Azeri  investigator  who took  a
helicopter  flight  over  the  escape route  from  Hojali  on  27
February.

"There were too many bodies of  dead and wounded on the ground to
count properly: 470-500  in Hojali, 650-700 people  by the stream
and the road and 85-100  visible around Nakhchivanik village," Mr
Manafov  wrote in  a  statement countersigned  by the  helicopter
pilot.

"People waved up  to us for help. We saw  three dead children and
one  two-year-old alive  by  one  dead woman.  The  live one  was
pulling at her arm for the mother to get up. We tried to land but
Armenians started a barrage against  our helicopter and we had to
return."

There  has been  no consolidation  of  the lists  and figures  in
circulation because  of the political  upheavals of the  last few
months and the  fact that nobody knows exactly who  was in Hojali
at the time - many inhabitants were displaced from other villages
taken over by Armenian forces.

THE INDEPENDENT, London, 12/6/'92

Serdar Argic


And we all hope, Teddy, that you will graduate from the first grade
while Clinton is President. Keep trying.


Well, here are the results of the Mathematica test which I posted to
this newsgroup.  The "test" was the following command:

I was just curious how fast the plot command would be executed on
various Macintosh machines as well as other personal computers and
workstations.  The results are posted below:

Machine		System		Math vers.	# of trials	time, min

PB 170		7.0.0 with	2.1		2		2:08
		tuneup/8MB
		RAM/5MB for
		Mathematica

DEC 5000	Ultrix v4.2a	2.1 for		1		0:25
		DEC RISC

IIsi		7.1/cache@96MB	1.2f33Enh.	1		4:30
		25MHz/5MB RAM/
		3MB for Math./
		w/ 68882

C650		7.1/8MB RAM			2		0:32

Q800		8MB/Cache@384/	1.2				1:01
		4MB for Math.

Sparc		SunOS4.1.3					0:14
Station		40MB RAM

SGI Iris/4D	R3000 RISC					<0:01
		processor
		version

Sparc		SunOS4.1.2	2.1 				0:26
Station2

IIsi		7.1						3:15

NeXT		NeXTSTEP 2.1	1.2				2:38
Cube		68030 based/
		w/ coprocessor

NeXT		NeXTSTEP 3.0	1.2		5(ave)		0:52
Cube		68040/25MHz/
		20 MB RAM

IIsi		17MB/8MB for	2.102 Enha			3:15
		Math.
		w/ 68882

NeXT		16MB RAM/			1 		0:37
		25 MHz 040/
		Workspace
		Manager 2.1

Funny how the IIsi running at 25 MHz is slower than other equivalent
machines, lots slower in fact.  Perhaps the version of Mathematica
makes a difference or the fact that not much RAM was allocated.
Another interesting thing is how fast the SGI did it.  Wow.

Basically, though, I wouldn't draw any conclusions from this data.  It
seems that Mathematica's speed is dependant on a lot of variables.  I
was just curious how different machines would measure up.

Well, if you have any questions or if I forgot something, just drop me
a line at "cmmiller@iastate.edu".

Chad


People get a life !!!!!!!!!!


I booked a hotel (Red Roof Inn) last week in Cincinnati (Blue Ash, which
is at the northern tip of the metro. Cincy area).  I chose it for a few
reasons.
  1.  All hotels in and near Dayton were booked solid.
  2.  This hotel is only costing $28/night.
  3.  It was one of about 4 rooms left on the night I reserved.
  4.  Cincinnati probably has more to to at night than Dayton.  I intend
      to hit the riverboat entertainment at dusk!

If anyone has other suggestions for nightlife, please let me know of
other hot spots.  Thanks!


Hi!

   I'm busy resurrecting some old machines (hey, they're cheap and they
work :)) and would be grateful for any help with the following card -

Magitronic - full length 8 bit memory only card.
Has room for 8 rows of 256K dips for a total of 2MB RAM.
Has an 8 position dip switch on it, presumably for addressing.

Does any kind soul out there have any docs or drivers for this beast?
I'd be disgustingly grateful.

                            Thanks,
                                    Lee.


etc. ...

Dyer is beyond rude.

There have been and always will be people who are blinded by their own
knowledge and unopen to anything that isn't already established. Given what
the medical community doesn't know, I'm surprised that he has this outlook.

For the record, I have had several outbreaks of thrush during the several
past few years, with no indication of immunosuppression or nutritional
deficiencies. I had not taken any antobiotics.

My dentist (who sees a fair amount of thrush) recommended acidophilous:

After I began taking acidophilous on a daily basis, the outbreaks ceased.
When I quit taking the acidophilous, the outbreaks periodically resumed.
I resumed taking the acidophilous with no further outbreaks since then.


I'll tell you my story as an example of what *not* to do.

Early in 1984 I took some riding lessons from my college roommate on
his old Honda CB360T.  He had taken the MSF beginner's course, so I
actually learned *some* of what I needed to know to ride.

I proceeded to buy a beat-up Honda CL350 for $400 and a $12 helmet and
rode around wearing this and a cotton windbreaker.  Then I decided to
invest in a full-face helmet (first smart move).  Sometime around then
I also passed my road test.

On May 4, 1984, I got caught in a rainstorm on my way home from a
4-mile trip.  Entering the town where I lived (a rather urban suburb),
I had to stop suddenly for a red light that I noticed too late,
skidded the rear tire out, and was ejected face upward into the
oncoming lane of traffic.  Fortunately for me the oncoming traffic was
also stopped for the same red light, otherwise I might have slid under
a car and been killed.

Now this is anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but I later took the
Experienced Rider Course from the MSF and saw that earlier training
could have helped me greatly.  In your case the need is even greater
since you have nobody to help you practice even the most basic stuff
as I did.

So my advice is to take the MSF beginner's course first thing.  I
wouldn't even buy a bike until you've taken the course, unless you
happen to pick up a real good deal and can store it someplace until
you're ready to use it.

While you're waiting to take the course (it might take a few weeks in
DC, as I recall there were always waiting lists in Boston), could you
save up some more money to start out right?  Say $300 for riding gear,
plus the cost bike, plus maybe $100 (guess) to a mechanic to make sure
the machine is safe (assuming you economize by buying some old beat-up
machine from a private individual), plus insurance, plus registration
and licensing fees, plus the course, you're looking at maybe $600 not
including the bike itself and a reserve for ongoing maintenance.

I pay about $100 insurance now (upstate NY) but it was closer to $200
in Boston (more urban) for decent insurance including substantial
coverage for liability, which you want unless you plan always to be
poor.  I'd guess DC is more like Boston than like a rural area, ergo
more expensive.

There used to be annual buyer's guides in the usual motorcycle
magazines; I found those helpful in getting an idea of what new or
recent models might be available.  You could probably look through
past issues to size up what used bikes might be available.  (My first
bike was 13 years old when I bought it so I went on my friend's advice
instead.)  Also look at the bikes that you see people riding or that
are parked on the street.  I basically settled on my present bike by
noticing that there were a lot of high-mileage BMW's running around
and they were generally set up the way I wanted.

Nothing wrong with talking to various dealers in your area or visiting
showrooms.  Dealers in the Boston area, at least when I was shopping,
were very nice about letting you look around their showrooms and
quoting prices for bikes that weren't the latest models (hence
cheaper), although I ended up buying both bikes in private sales.


1993 Andrew Tutorial
                                  and
                          Technical Conference

When:  Thursday and Friday, June 24 and 25, 1993
    (Deadline for Registration:  June 4, 1993)

Where:  Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Sponsor:  Andrew Consortium of CMU's School of Computer Science.

Schedule:  The Tutorial  will be on Thursday, followed by dinner and the
    Annual Meeting.  The Conference proper will be on Friday.  All
    Conference attendees are welcome at the Annual Meeting.

    Wednesday, June 23

        Check in:  After 4:00 PM
        Informal Reception:  7:30 PM

    Thursday, June 24

        Tutorial:  9:00 A.M. - 5:00 PM
        Conference Dinner:  6:30 PM
        Annual meeting:  8:00 PM

    Friday, June 25

        Technical Conference:  9:00 AM - 5:00 PM

Cost:
    Tutorial fee includes breaks, lunch and tutorial materials:  $100
    Conference fee includes conference dinner, breaks and proceedings: $100
    Rooms (student housing):  $50 / night

Housing is tight around the campus area, so please register soon.  If you
prefer to stay in off-campus housing, please contact us for suggestions.
Mary Anne Cowden will be handling registration.  You can contact her by
email,  mc8b+@andrew.cmu.edu,  or by phone, (412) 268-6710.
 Registration Form

Please complete the attached form and return it to:

Mary Anne Cowden
Andrew Consortium Technical Conference
Carnegie Mellon University
Smith Hall 106
5000 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890

                                     <-       cut along here       ->
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Name:              ______________________________________________

Address: 	______________________________________________

		______________________________________________

Organization: 	______________________________________________

Email:               ______________________________________________

Phone:              ______________________________________________

Tutorial		$ ___________     $100
Conference		$ ___________     $100
Housing		$ ___________      $50/night

	TOTAL ENCLOSED     $ ___________


I find these to be intriguing remarks.   Could you give us a bit
more explanation here?   For example, which religion is anti-semitic,
and which aesthetic?


There were some recent developments in the dispute about Masonry among
Southern Baptists.  I posted a summary over in bit.listserv.christia, and
I suppose that it might be useful here.  Note that I do not necessarily
agree or disagree with any of what follows: I present it as information.

 *

For a short summary:  a Southern Baptist named Larry Holly wrote a book
claiming that Freemasonry is a religion incompatible with Christianity.
(Mr Holly's father rejects Christianity, and Mr Holly blames that on the
Masons.)

The SBC's Home Missions Board includes an interfaith witness department,
which studies other religions and how to teach them about Christ.  A few
years ago, they were ordered to produce a report on Masonry: they concluded
that it was not a religion, and therefore was outside their speciality.
However, Mr Holly led a movement of people who oppose Masonry, and
last year the Convention again ordered the HMB to study Masonry.  (I got the
feeling that they were saying "You got the wrong answer last time, try to
do better and get the answer we want.")

Anyway, there's been a bit of infighting and some inappropriate actions, but
the dust has settled and the report is in.  Nobody is entirely happy with it,
but everybody seems willing to live with it.  Both sides are saying things
such as: "This was the best we were going to get in the current environment."

The report commends the Masons for the charity work they do, such as the
hospitals and burn centers they operate, as well as efforts to help the
elderly and prevent drug abuse.  The report acknowledges that many well-
known Christians are and have been Masons, and notes that many teachings
of Masonry are "supportive of Christian faith and practice".  Examples of
the latter include belief in God, emphases on honesty and integrity, and
that some Masonic lodges incorporate explicit Christian beliefs.

On the other hand, they note that some aspects of Masonry are incompatible
with Southern Baptist principles.  These included the use of titles which some
people consider sacrilegious, the taking of certain oaths (even though they
are not meant seriously), the "undeniably pagan and/or occultic" writings of
some Masonic leaders, the implication in some Masonic writings that salvation
can be achieved by good works, and the racial discrimination practiced by many
Masonic lodges.  (I note with some chagrin that Baptist churches as a whole
aren't really in a place to speak on this last point.)

The report concludes that Masonry is not a religion, and says that membership
should not be endorsed or censured, but left to the discretion of individuals.
This was in part because there is variation among different Masonic Lodges,
and while one may include elements strongly against Christianity, another may
not.  Many Southern Baptists have strong convictions about the priesthood of
the believer and the autonomy of the local church, and this history probably
influenced how the report came out.

 *

The information above was gleaned from "The Religious Herald", a publication
of the Baptist General Association of Virginia, and "Baptists Today", which
does not have any direct links to a religious organisation.  (Autonomy is a
big issue among some Baptists.  8-)

Because I have neither the report itself, nor whatever Masonic documents are
relevant to these issues, none of the above comes with a guarantee.  Your
mileage may vary.  Void where prohibited.

Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu

Milton:  "We use only the finest baby frogs, dew picked and flown from Iraq,
          cleansed in finest quality spring water, lightly killed, and then
          sealed in a succulent Swiss quintuple smooth treble cream milk
          chocolate envelope and lovingly frosted with glucose."


Does anybody know what Delaunay Triangulation is?
Is there any reference to it?
Is it useful for creating 3-D objects? If yes, what's the advantage?

Thanks in advance.


No!  Distribution keywords are case sensitive.  What you want
is

	Distribution: world

or no Distribution line at all.  "WORLD" in capital letters is wrong.


To everyone who wants fonts in Vivid/POV/Polyray.
The Borland BGI font converter is VVFONT18.ZIP.
This program can be found on FTP.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE directory
pub/dkbtrace/utils.
Also WUARCHIVE has mirrored this site (directory graphics/graphics/mirrors/
ftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/pub/dkbtrace/utils.
There are more nice utilities present in this directory.
A new version of Polyray 1.6 (for those asked for it) can be found on the
same sites but in the directory INCOMING instead of UTILS (PLY16386).
Also in this directory POVSHELL and PV3DV060 could be found.
Have a nive raytrace time.
Peter


Why?  I'm calling this Penguins ... in 6.  Only that with the way
things stand, the only radio game at that hour is from the Devils
on WABC, 770 AM.  It'd be nice to have a Sony Watchman, but ...

No need to be paranoid, Robbie.  Don't judge me by my geographic
coordinates ...

Jets over Nordiques in the final ... 7.

gld


It might pay to start looking at what this proposal might mean to a
police agency.  It just might be a bad idea for them, too.

OK, suppose the NY State Police want to tap a suspect's phone.  They
need a warrant, just like the old days.  But unlike the old days, they
now need to

   (a) get two federal agencies to give them the two parts of
       the key.

Now, what happens if there's a tiff between the two escrow houses?
Posession/release of keys becomes a political bargaining chit.  State
and lower-level police agencies have to watch the big boys play politics,
while potentially good leads disappear, lives and property are lost,
statutes of limitations run out, etc.  Not to mention: a moderately
clever person who suspects the police are after her/him will be buying
new phones faster than tap requests can be processed.  Or using stolen
ones.  [Will the Turing Police come and arrest you for transmitting
without a dialing license?]

There's also bureacracy and security problems -- within each escrow house,
how will requests for key disclosure be authenticated?  Put in enough
safeguards of the kind bureaucrats and activists feel comfortable with, and
it might take a LONG time to get that key.  [Even when a request is approved,
how is the key going to be disclosed?  Will it be encrypted by a Clipper-type
chip for transmission?  In a bureaucracy the size of the Federal
Government, with a databank of the necessary size, and data traffic of
the projected volume, there's going to be a lot of weak links.  How many of
these kinds of problems will be open for public or "expert" scrutiny?]

Furthermore, the Feds might be leery of handing completed keys around,
even to State Police agencies: a trust and security issue.  This would be
an especially acute issue if some other State's Police had mishandled a
key, resulting in lawsuits, financial settlements, and political
embarassment.  So, the Feds implement it this way:

   (b) some federal agency gets the keys, performs the tap, and
       turns the results over to the NY State Police.

But let's say Cuomo's been causing some problems over a Clinton
Aid-To-Urban-Areas proposal.  Or there just happens to be a turf war
going on between the State cops and the Justice department on a case.
Now, not only do we have the keys as a political chit, we have an
extra player in the game *and* we have the tap's tapes as another
bargaining chit.  Again, the State Police lose.

I understand that (legal) wiretaps are quite expensive to maintain. In
scenario (b), who pays the bill?


I understand there have been a couple of raves in LA billing themselves as
"Virtual Reality" parties. What I hear they do is project .GIF images around
on the walls, as well as run animations through a Newtek Toaster.

Seems like we need to adopt the term Really Virtual Reality or something, except
for the non-immersive stuff which is Virtually Really Virtual Reality.

etc.

___Samuel___


No, you have completely misunderstood.  I was opposed to intervention in
Somalia for the same reason I am opposed to intervention in Bosnia - there is
no security interest of the United States there which justifies risking the
lives of American servicemen, and there are too many crises in the world for us
to take on all of them.  In the case of Bosnia, the risks are obviously much
greater, and there are other countries in a much better position and with far
better reasons to take action than the US.

You continue to misunderstand.  I did not say the reason why people want to
intervene is because of racist (<- you seem to be overly fond of using this
word, btw.  I said the phenomenon was race-related, which is not the same as
racist.  Perhaps this distinction is too subtle for you to grasp) motives - I
said the attention and outrage at the entire Yugoslavian situation was a result
of it being 1) closer to home, 2) happening to people we can identify with, and
3) relentlessly harped on by the media.  I never said anything about which side
would be preferred, which has a lot more to do with the presentation of the
conflict than any psychological factors.  I think there is no doubt that despite
the fact we intervened in Somalia, the level of attention devoted to there was
considerably less than what is devoted to Bosnia, if the newspapers and tv news
I see are any guide.


Yeah, right.  And the company was started by George Simon Ohmite.


Unless I've got my notes mixed up, 939 F.2d 499 comes close to this.
Regular guy.  Blue-collar worker at a regular company.  Hauled into
court.  Convicted.  Appeals to 7th circuit.  Makes all the right
arguments (his brief is cited by Mr. Teel as an example of a
"winning" brief).  Shot down, 3-zip by the 7th circuit.  Appeals to
the Supreme Court.  And...

...Certiorari denied.  Defendant goes to jail.  Oh well.


Archive-name: atheism/overview
Alt-atheism-archive-name: overview
Last-modified: 5 April 1993
Version: 1.2

                                   Overview

Welcome to alt.atheism and alt.atheism.moderated.

This is the first in a series of regular postings aimed at new readers of the
newsgroups.

Many groups of a 'controversial' nature have noticed that new readers often
come up with the same questions, mis-statements or misconceptions and post
them to the net.  In addition, people often request information which has
been posted time and time again.  In order to try and cut down on this, the
alt.atheism groups have a series of five regular postings under the following
titles:

   1.  Alt.Atheism FAQ: Overview for New Readers
   2.  Alt.Atheism FAQ: Introduction to Atheism
   3.  Alt.Atheism FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
   4.  Alt.Atheism FAQ: Constructing a Logical Argument
   5.  Alt.Atheism FAQ: Atheist Resources

This is article number 1.  Please read numbers 2 and 3 before posting.  The
others are entirely optional.

If you are new to Usenet, you may also find it helpful to read the newsgroup
news.announce.newusers.  The articles titled "A Primer on How to Work With
the Usenet Community", "Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Usenet"
and "Hints on writing style for Usenet" are particularly relevant.  Questions
concerning how news works are best asked in news.newusers.questions.

If you are unable to find any of the articles listed above, see the "Finding
Stuff" section below.

                                   Credits

These files could not have been written without the assistance of the many
readers of alt.atheism and alt.atheism.moderated.  In particular, I'd like to
thank the following people:

kck+@cs.cmu.edu (Karl Kluge)
perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)
NETOPRWA@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken)
chpetk@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Toby Kelsey)
jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
geoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold)
torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf)
roe2@quads.uchicago.edu (Greg Roelofs)
arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
J5J@psuvm.psu.edu (John A. Johnson)
dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)
mayne@open.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
ajr@bigbird.hri.com (Andy Rosen)
stoesser@ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser)
bosullvn@unix1.tcd.ie (Bryan O'Sullivan)
lippard@ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)
s1b3832@rigel.tamu.edu (S. Baum)
ydobyns@phoenix.princeton.edu (York H. Dobyns)
schroede@sdsc.edu (Wayne Schroeder)
baldwin@csservera.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin)
D_NIBBY@unhh.unh.edu (Dana Nibby)
dempsey@Kodak.COM (Richard C. Dempsey)
jmunch@hertz,elee.calpoly.edu (John David Munch)
pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
rz@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Richard Zach)
tycchow@math.mit.edu (Tim Chow)
simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)

...and countless others I've forgotten.

These articles are free.  Truly free.  You may copy them and distribute them
to anyone you wish.  However, please send any changes or corrections to the
author, and please do not re-post copies of the articles to alt.atheism; it
does nobody any good to have multiple versions of the same document floating
around the network.

                                Finding Stuff

All of the FAQ files *should* be somewhere on your news system.  Here are
some suggestions on what to do if you can't find them:

1. Check the newsgroup alt.atheism.  Look for subject lines starting with
   "Alt.Atheism FAQ:".

2. Check the newsgroup news.answers for the same subject lines.

   If you don't find anything in steps 1 or 2, your news system isn't set up
   correctly, and you may wish to tell your system administrator about the
   problem.

3. If you have anonymous FTP access, connect to rtfm.mit.edu [18.172.1.27].
   Go to the directory /pub/usenet/alt.atheism, and you'll find the latest
   versions of the FAQ files there.

   FTP is a a way of copying files between networked computers.  If you
   need help in using or getting started with FTP, send e-mail to
   mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with

      send usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq

   in the body.

4. There are other sites which also carry news.answers postings.  The article
   "Introduction to the news.answers newsgroup" carries a list of these
   sites; the article is posted regularly to news.answers.

5. If you don't have FTP, send mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu
   consisting of the following lines:

      send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources
      send usenet/alt.atheism/faq
      send usenet/alt.atheism/introduction
      send usenet/alt.atheism/logic
      send usenet/alt.atheism/resources

5. (Penultimate resort)  Send mail to mail-server@mantis.co.uk consisting of
   the following lines:

      send atheism/faq/faq.txt
      send atheism/faq/logic.txt
      send atheism/faq/intro.txt
      send atheism/faq/resource.txt

   and our poor overworked modems will try and send you a copy of the files.
   There's other stuff, too; interesting commands to try are "help" and
   "send atheism/index".

6. (Last resort)  Mail mathew@mantis.co.uk, or post an article to the
   newsgroup asking how you can get the FAQ files.  You should only do this
   if you've tried the above methods and they've failed; it's not nice to
   clutter the newsgroup or people's mailboxes with requests for files.
   it's better than posting without reading the FAQ, though!  For instance,
   people whose email addresses get mangled in transit and who don't have
   FTP will probably need assistance obtaining the FAQ files.


Hi,

has anybody implements an RPC server in the HP Xwindows? In SUN Xview, there
is a notify_enable_rpc_svc() call that automatically executes the rpc processes
when it detects an incoming request. I wonder if there is a similar function in
HP X/motif that perform the same function.

any help is appreciated.


-- and --

Good grief; has no one ever heard of Biostatistics??  The University of
Washington (plus 3 or 4 others [Harvard, UNC]) has a department and
advanced degree program in Biostatistics.  My wife has an MS Biostat, and
there are plenty of MDs, PhDs, and postdocs doing Biostatistical work.
People do this for a living.  Really bright people study for decades to do
this sort of study well.

Anecedotal evidence is worthless.  Even doctors who have been using a drug
or treatment for years, and who swear it is effective, are often suprised
at the results of clinical trials.  Whether or not MSG causes describable,
reportable, documentable symptoms should be pretty simple to discover.

The last study on which my wife worked employed 200 nurses, 100 doctors,
and a dozen Ph.Ds at one University and at 70 hospitals in five nations.  I
would think the MSG question could be settled by one lowly Biostat MS
student in a thesis.


You obviously did not watch the Twins in Chicago.

No cold spell?  It's been snowing most of the week in Minnesota.
(5 inches in Duluth last weekend)

Yup.


I sold my '86 Sprint last April with 95k on it.  I'd driven it since
the previous July, putting 20k miles on it.  The sensor light used to
light up regularly, starting about 5k miles after I bought it.
My brother and I rebuilt the engine but used all of the original equipment,
so I suppose the sensor could have used replacement.  Performance (hah,
if you could call it that) did not change.  Perhaps emissions increased,
but how much emissions could a CA-registered 3 cylinder engine produce?
That was a neat car, I held the engine block easily in one hand!  Has
anyone ever driven the 'Turbo' variant?  Just curious...


When I first saw this, I thought for a second that it was a headline from
The Star about the pliers found in the SRB recently.

Y'know, sometimes they have wire-cutters built in :-)

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \\ As the radius of vision increases,
18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ the circumference of mystery grows.


Hi, I'm just getting into PoVRay and I was wondering if there is a graphic
package that outputs .POV files.  Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Later'ish
Craig


Do you really have *that* much information on him?  Really?

I don't know.  You tell me.  What percentage of players reach or
exceed their MLE's *in their rookie season*?  We're talking about
1993, you know.

If that were your purpose, maybe.  Offerman spent 1992 getting
acclimated, if you will.  The Dodgers as a team paid a big price
that season.  Perhaps they will reap the benefits down the road.
Do you really think they would have done what they did if they
were competing for a pennant?

For a stat-head, I'm amazed that you put any credence in spring
training.  Did you notice who he got those 10 (!) hits off of, or
are you going to tell me that it doesn't make a difference?

Wait a minute.  I missed something here.  First, forget Keith
Mitchell.  Are you saying that a kid who moves from AA to AAA
and then does not improve would have been better off making a
direct leap to the majors?  If a player does well at AA and then
does not improve at AAA, isn't that a sign that maybe he doesn't
belong in the bigs?

Now, Keith Mitchell.  As I recall (no stat books handy - surprise!)
he jumped from AA to Atlanta in 1991.  He did so well that he was
returned to the minors, where he didn't do very well at all.  Now
his career is in jeopardy.  So how does he fit in with your
point.  Good MLE's in AA.  Moved him right to the big club.  Now
he's one step away from being traded or moved out of baseball.
Duh.

Well, I've cast my lot.  Certainly you may understand better how
good Lopez is.  And I may overvalue experience.  But neither one
of us runs a baseball team.

--	The Beastmaster


    I'm sick too watching all-american names like GRETZKY etc.

    Which names you accept ? Sitting bull and dances with wolves ?

    It is North America. What are you doing here ?


Wanted:  Amiga 1000 Memory Expander
 	   Any Size (at least 1 meg), populated or not

	 eg. AX2000, Insider, etc.

Needed Desperately!

Cash deal or trade for:

2400 mnp4 Everex Evercom 24e External Modem
2400 pc internal modem
PP 2400SA V42.bis external modem
Apple II+ parts
Lots of PC cards
Panasonic Video CCD Video Camera (BL204) w/ lenses
(Great for Digi-View etc...CCD...no lens...no burn-in!)

Send Email ASAP!
--
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
               The HeartBeat of America...Yesterdays Camaro Z28
                             tfoley@camaro.uucp
     Call the Camaro Linux Pub-access site: 1-416-238-6550 USRobotics HST
    Note: Please, no ftpmail or mailing lists or the host gets annoyed :)


Hi.  My last question for the year.  I have a mail-order no-name notebook
with 4 meg ram.  I never have problems with my huge ramdisk or when
running desqview, but Win3.1 and W4W2.0 constantly crash on me, most
commonly citing a "memory parity error."  The only thing I can do is TURN
OFF and re-boot.  My CMOS ticks off & counts all the memory every startup,
and there is never a problem with this either.

Could it be a bug in my Windows copy instead of the hardware?  I remember
having some disk error problems when installing it.

Is there any change I could make to lessen the frequency or likelyhood of
this happening (I think win vs win /s produce different crashes, but both
crash frequently nonetheless)


I've been given the sites of some excellent 3D objects on all sorts of file formats ...
Here's where they are:

Host plaza.aarnet.edu.au

    Location: /graphics/graphics/mirrors
      DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x        512  Apr  4 14:32  avalon.chinalake.navy.mil

Host compute1.cc.ncsu.edu

    Location: /mirrors/wustl/graphics/graphics/mirrors
      DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x        512  Mar 14 09:15  avalon.chinalake.navy.mil

Host wuarchive.wustl.edu

    Location: /graphics/graphics/mirrors
      DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x        512  Jan  3 06:29  avalon.chinalake.navy.mil


Archive-Name: rec-autos/part2

Automotive Mailing Lists (Electronic Mail, that is):

[last updated 3/17/93; new lotus, exotic cars list subscription info;
   added Portland, OR motorsports list, Corvair list, Triumph TR8 list -- rpw]

There are a number of electronic mailing lists on the network devoted to
various special automotive topics.

To the best of my knowledge, all the lists appearing here have open
membership policies.  It is my policy not to list `closed' mailing lists
here.

Most mailing lists provide separate addresses for administrative
queries and for general mail; where separate administrative
addresses exist, I have listed those below, as the general addresses
are not appropriate for inquirys and requests.

Audi
         (send requests to quattro-request@aries.east.sun.com)

Autocross/Solo
         (send requests to autox-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

BMW
         (send requests to bmw-request@balltown.cma.com
          both regular and digest forms available)

British Cars
         (send requests to british-cars-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

Buick Grand National/Regal/GNX
         (send requests to gnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com)

Camaro/Firebird (GM F-body)
         (send requests to f-body-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM)

Corvair
         (send requests to bryan@pegasus.mitre.org)

Corvettes
   there are two lists; the first is more of a competition oriented
   list, and the second is more general in nature (or so i am told)

   Competition:
          (send requests to vettes-request@cimage.com)
   General:
          (send requests to vettes-request@compaq.com)

Datsun/Fairlady Roadsters
         (send requests to datsun-roadsters-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

Dodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT
	(send requests to stealth-req%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu)

Eclipse/Talon/Laser
         (send requests to diginst!talon-request@radius.com)

Electric Vehicles
         (send requests to info-ev-request@ymir.claremont.edu)

Exotic-Cars
	 (send requests to exotic-cars-request@sol.asl.hitachi.com)

Fabrication (race cars)
	 (send requests to racefab-request@pms706.pms.ford.com)

International Harvester (discussion of Scouts, pickups, etc.)
	 (send requests to ihc-request@balltown.cma.com)

Italian Cars
	 (send requests to italian-cars-request@balltown.cma.com;
          both regular and digest forms available)

Hondas
         listserv@brownvm.brown.edu; use standard listserv subscription
         procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be
         "sub HONDA-L your-real-name" with no subject line in the header

Hot rods
         (send requests to hotrod-request@dixie.com)

Land Rovers
	 (send requests to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com)

Lotus
	 (send requests to lotus-cars-request@netcom.com)

Mazdas
         (send requests to mazda-list-request@ms.uky.edu)

Miata
         listserv@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu; use standard listserv subscription
         procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be
         "sub miata your-real-name" with no subject line in the header

Merkurs
         (send requests to merkur-request@pcad.UUCP)

Mopar
         (mostly high performance Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth products.
          send requests to mopar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu)

MR2
         (send requests to mr2-interest-request@validgh.com)

Mustangs
   There are two lists, the first is for Mustangs through 1973,
   the second for Mustangs from 1980 on.  nobody cares about
   the Mustang II, so don't ask.

   classic:
         (send requests to classic-mustangs-request@hpfctjc.fc.hp.com)
   modern:
	 (send requests to mustangs-request@cup.hp.com)

Offroad & 4X4
         (send requests to offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu)

Porsches
	 (send requests to porschephiles-request@tta.com)

Portland, Oregon Motorsports Activities
         (send requests to pdxracer-request@reed.edu)

Rally
         (send requests to rally-request@stratus.com)

RX7
	 (send requests to jjn@cblpf.ATT.COM)

Saabs
         (send requests to saab@network.mhs.compuserve.com)

Saturn
         (send requests to saturn-request@oar.net)

School (high performance driving schools)
         (send requests to school-request@balltown.cma.com)

Sentra SE-R, G20, N2000
         (send requests to se-r-request@pencom.com)

Supras
         (send requests to supras-request@vicor.com)

Toyota
	 (send requests to toyota-request@quack.sac.ca.us)

Triumph TR7/V8, TR8
         (send requests to jtc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)

Volvos
	 (requests to swedishbricks-request@me.rochester.edu)

Wheel-to-Wheel Racing
         (forum for race drivers, workers, crew, and wannabes;
          send requests to wheeltowheel-request@abingdon.sun.com)

Z-Cars (Nissan/Datsun)
         (send requests to z-car-request@dixie.com)


Hi there,
I'm having a bizarre video problem within Windows 3.1.  I have a 286 with
a GVGA-16 video board.  I've been using the standard Windows VGA driver
with other similarly configured computers.

I am thinking that my problem is with the way Windows refreshes it's screen.

The problem is that once Windows has been envoked, the colors start
changing themselves.  At first I thought it was hardware, but if you open
a full screen DOS program from within the Windows session, you don't have
any problems until you get back to Windows - however, when you initially
return to Windows, the original colors get refreshed properly.

Also, it is not a uniform color change - so if you are in solitaire, the
design on the back of the card maintains it's original color scheme, but
the white fronts of the cards will turn grey, then blue, etc.

The color changes keep getting darker until finally everything is a dark
purple-ish black.  If you pop out to DOS and exit back to Windows - the
screen gets refreshed again.

If I don't log into Windows and just do DOS things from the Novell
network, everything is fine.

I originally loaded the software by bouncing it down to the net from the
other machine I had just finished configuring, then from the net to this
machine.  When I ran into problems, I deleted everything on this machine
and the net, and tried bouncing it again.  When that didn't work, I tried
reloading Windows to no avail.

Any thoughts on things to check out?  I am totally baffled!

Thanks in advance for any assistance and instruction!


Dear fellow netters,

From time to time a term like 'Oneness Pentecostals' (or something
similar) has occurred in posts to this group. I also know that there
is a movement called something like 'Jesus alone.'

I believe in the Trinity and have no plans to change that, but reently
I was made aware that there is at least one person within our church
who holds the view that there is no trinity. In the near future we
will discuss this item, and I feel that I shall ask you, my friends on
this group, for background information.

Can anybody tell me the basic reasons for holding a belief that there
is only Jesus? And vice versa: The foundations for the Trinity?

I shall appreciate both quotes from the Bible and historical
development.

Thank you all.

In Him,

Bjorn


Hello, recently I have been printing out a lot of files on school's laser printer and feeling guilty about it.  Please help me by showing me where to get a post script viewer for X-windows.  Thank you for your help.


Hi, I was wondering if anyone out there knows of any books that give helpful
hints and tips on writing thesis papers in WfW.  I know about the dissertation
template that comes with word but I want more.  I would like to have tips on
how to use all the {seq ...} , {bookmark ...} , {index ...} , { chapter ...},
fields that are available in word.  I have looked through the help files,etc.
but they really don't explain a whole lot.  I will post the results(That means
email me first) if I get a lot of different suggestions since I think this
might be of help to lots of crazy grad students such as myself. Thanks.

Brian Servis

p.s. How do you change the font that Help uses when printing a topic?  The
     default is so choppy and hard to read.


In light of my recent paranoia concerning government proposals, I'd love to
see a UNIX-based encryption scheme that:

1) Kept some files encrypted on the host machine (say, all the files in your
   home directory)
2) Used a key system that could not be compromised by eavesdropping over a
   modem line.

It seems that this would require modifications to a shell program and a
way of telling whether a file was encrypted or not, among other things.

I'd love to know about potential security holes in such a system.

Does such a system exist?  If it were made easy-to-use and readily
available, I think it would be a Good Thing(tm).  I realize that this
would probably just involve putting a nice front-end on a readily available
and very secure encryption scheme, but it should be done.


  Actually Steve, I think he was refering to the Leafs, and when they can
be expected to hit the greens...


You get a mic with the C650 if you get it with the internal CD ROM drive.

Gary

--


According to what reasonable principle of justice does standing in intimate
geographical and psychological relations to a league give one some privileged
right to play in it?


Has an X version of whois been written out there?  If so, where can I ftp it
from?  Thanks.


	You sonuvabitch.  Rub it in, why don't you?  "We have great weather
and great roads here, unlike the rest of you putzes in the U.S.  Nyah, nyah,
nyah."

	:-) for the severely humor-impaired.

	You'll likely not notice her weight too much.  A piece of advice
for you:  don't be abrupt with the throttle.  No wheelies, accelerate a
wee bit more slowly than usual.  Consciously worry about spitting her off
the back.  It's as much your job to keep her on the pillion as it is hers,
and I guarantee she'll be put off by the bike ripping out from under her
when you whack it open.  Keep the lean angles pretty tame the first time
out too.  You and her need to learn each other's body English.  She needs
to learn what your idea is about how to take the turn, and you need to
learn her idea of "shit!  Don't crash now!" so you don't work at cross
purposes while leaned over.  You can work up to more aggressive riding over
time.

	A very important thing:  tell her to put her hand against the tank
when you brake--this could save you some severely crushed cookies.

Have fun,


They exist.  Even photosynthetic varieties.  Not economical at this
time, though.


Many X servers supporting graphics accelerators do not allow the creation
of pixmaps exeeding the size of the screen.  One workaround is to create
several smaller pixmaps and add the results.


Bryan Murray has done very little as GM...Yzerman, Fedorov, Cheveldae,
Chaisson, the whole Russian strategy was a product of the previous
GM...Murray has made a couple of decent trades...that's about it...
that would hardly rank him as the best GM.

Wasn't Primeau, Murray's first decision as GM...


This has been discussed before, by several people, on this net.  The
statement is attributable either to Hajj Amin al-Husseini, former Grand
Mufti of Jerusalem - and the leader of the Palestinian death squads
during the 1948 war, or to one of his chief henchmen.

It was not coined by B'nai B'rith or, for that matter, any Jewish
organization.


# ##For a while, homosexuals paid higher insurance rates than straights,
# ##and with very good reason, until the government made it illegal to
# ##do so.
#
# Well if we go by this philosophy how many Children do you think
# we help pay for with our insurance premiums???  Children who obviously
# cannot be afforded, since the insurance companies have to pay for
# all of the prenatal and birthing.....  What about the children born
# with horrible flaws who cost the system an arm and a leg to be kept alive?
# We all pay because we are all part of this society and we should take
# care of one another.....

Oddly enough, dependent coverage costs a bit more than for one self
alone.  But if you really believe your claims, you could make a lot
of money starting the "Homosexuals Health Insurance Co." and refuse to
insure "breeders."  But I shudder to think what your premiums will be
like.

# Bil Snodgrass III


I  am  cleaning  out  the coffers.  I have a virtually
          MINT collection of HEAVY METAL magazine.  This is  NOT
          a  music  mag  but the really neato mag with Giger and
          Moebius  artwork,  et  al.  Jam  packed  with  amazing
          sci-fi  and  fantasy artwork by many masters.  All are
          mint with the exception of the 3 that have split  seam
          on  the  cover  only but are otherwise perfect, no cut
          outs or missing pages.  I have Sep, Nov and Dec issues
          for 1978, ALL issues for 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982,  1983
          and  Jan  thru  Sep  for  1984  (72  issues  in  all i
          believe).  I will not break  them  up.  They  will  be
          sold  as  a  single  lot.  Send  your  offers  to  me.
          Shipping not included,  these  are  pretty  heavy.  Of
          course  if  you are local (Mass, USA) you can come get
          'em in person.


Reading this definition, I wonder: when should you recognize something
as being a "mistake"? It seems to me, that proponents of pseudo-sciences
might have their own ideas of what constitutes a "mistake" and which
discoveries of such previous mistakes they accept.


please tell me where you where you FTP'd this from? I would like to have
a copy of it. (I would have mailed you, but your post indicates you have no mail
address...)


:If the Clinton Clipper is so very good, why not make its algrithm public
:so many people can exchange ideas and examine it, rather than a few
:isolated 'respected experts' (respected by whom?  for what?  Perhaps a
:certain professor who likes key banks would be one of the selected
:experts... this does seem to expand on some ideas the person was
:advocating, if I recall :-).  How would anybody know that what the

Actually, I am *completely* baffled by why Dorothy Denning has chosen
to throw away her academic respectability like this.  It looks to me
like a *major* Career Limiting Move.  There can be very few people
who know what she's been saying who take her seriously any more.

I wonder if she landed such a fat fee from cooperation with the NSA in
the design and propoganda stages that she doesn't care any more?


	No, no no. The Ack man is apparently an alien life-form, much
like the pod people from planet Mars, who can take on any form (the
ability remains the same, however). The Ack-people have been spotted on
many teams to date, but it appears that the Orioles staff (mentioned
above) and the Expos bullpen (Barnes, Walton, Fassero, Gardiner and
Rojas) have been the prime target. Apparently John Wetteland was roughed
up by the Ack-people during spring training due to the fact that his
system rejected the takeover, and has been on the DL ever since. Contact
the authorities! This evil plot must be stopped! (the Ack-people can
keep Jack Morris and Juan Guzman, though. I enjoy watching Toronto fans
suffer too much to want these guys returned to normal ;-)

Scot.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scot Hughes        | Department of Chemical Engineering | Expos in '93!
falcon@cs.mcgill.ca| McGill University, Montreal, Quebec| {witty saying here}


   My understanding is that the 'expected errors' are basically
   known bugs in the warning system software - things are checked
   that don't have the right values in yet because they aren't
   set till after launch, and suchlike. Rather than fix the code
   and possibly introduce new bugs, they just tell the crew
   'ok, if you see a warning no. 213 before liftoff, ignore it'.

Good grief. And I thought the Shuttle software was known for being
well-engineered. If this is actually the case, every member of the
programming team should be taken out and shot.

(given that I've heard the Shuttle software rated as Level 5 in
maturity, I strongly doubt that this is the case).


hello testing


:What happened in Waco is not the fault of the BATF. If they would of
:had the proper equipment and personal then they could of captured the
:
:With the WoD and the increased crime in the streets the BATF is needed
:more now then ever. If they blast away a few good fokes then that is
:
:With the arms build up in Waco they needed to hit that compound with
:mega fire power. They could of gone in there blasting and killed a few

I hope this is a joke... if not, here's my response:

The BATF has a history of no-knock raids with poor evidence, often resulting in
innocent people being killed or suffering injury to person or property.  I will
NOT support the BATF until they clean up their act... Maybe...  As to equipment,
the BATF has damn near anything it wants...  Their faults were in intelligence
(military and civilian definitions apply), tactics (attacking during DAYLIGHT??), methodology (the FBI stated that it is against government policy to assault
a position where there are non-combatants/potential hostages without attempting
negotiations first), and legality.  The BATF's jurisdiction is TAXES on firearms
and tobacco.  They are a branch of the department of the treasury.  They have
very curiously backed away from their claims of illegal weaponry to push the
child-abuse charges... The BATF has no jurisdiction over non-firearms/tobacco
issues! And the charges of child-abuse had been investigated in the past with
no violence and no validation.  This was a clear case of first the BATF, then
the FBI, having watched too many Rambo movies...  My opinion is that the agent
in charge should be charged with executing an illegal raid, criminal negligence,
murder, civil rights violations, and breaking his/her oath to uphold and defend
the Constitution of the US.  The warrant should be unsealed to reveal to the
public what justification the BATF thought it had in committing an armed assault
on American citizens.  And while on the issue of investigating this issue,
the Randy Weaver case and the Johnny Lawmaster case should be investigated for
BATF wrongdoing.

James

btw, if the BATF came busting in my windows with concussion grenades, you could damn well bet I would return fire to the utmost of my ability.


I am a newbie to the net, and I am trying to get some information for a paper
I am working on to get back into college.  If anyone can send me data on
Solar coronal holes and recurrant aurora  for the past thirty years it would be
a big help.  Or, if you have information on more esoteric things like Telluric
current, surge bafflers power companies use, or other effects sporatic aurora
have on the Earth's magnetic field, I'd be eternally gratefull.  Please send
anything interesting to me at
        Marty Crandall-Grela
        Van Vleck Observatory
        Wesleyan University
        Middletown,Ct 06487
 or e-mail it to me at mcrandall@eagle.wesleyan.edu
 Thank-you in advance,      Marty


Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #011
                 Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh

        +-------------------------------------------------------+
        |                                                       |
        |   "Right, we should slaughter the Armenians!" and     |
        |    "There's no need to be afraid, all of Moscow is    |
        |    behind us." I even heard that: "All Moscow is      |
        |    behind us." Well I watched and listened in and     |
        |    realized that this was no joke.                    |
        |							|
        +-------------------------------------------------------+

DEPOSITION OF YURI VAGARSHAKOVICH MUSAELIAN

   Born 1953
   Line Electrician
   Sumgait Streetcar and Trolleybus Administration

   Resident at Building 4/21, Apartment 29
   Block 14, Narimanov Street
   Sumgait [Azerbaijan]

I spent almost all of February doing overhaul. The 27th was a short day at
work, we worked until eleven or eleven-thirty and left for home. I decided
to go for a short walk. I went to Primorsky Park. I walked past the Eternal
Flame and saw a group of about 8 to 10 people standing there. When I had
walked another 15 to 20 yards I heard the screech of automobile brakes
behind me. I turned my head toward the sound. It was a light blue GAZ-24
Volga. I see that the people who were standing there have gone over to the
car. A man and a woman get out. The man is expensively dressed, in a suit,
and the woman has a raincoat on. She doesn't have anything on her head, and
her hair is let down, sightly reddish hair, a heavy-set woman. They're 40 to
45 years old. They get something out of the trunk. The people start to help
them. I become curious just what are they pulling out of there?

When I got up close I heard them turn something on. I didn't see what it was,
but it was probably a tape recorder. They put it on the ground near the
Eternal Flame honoring the 26 Baku Commissars and formed a tight circle
around it. I ask, "What's going on?" Someone tells me, "Come listen." Well
they were Azerbaijanis, I had asked in Azerbaijani. I hear appeals: "Brother
Muslims, our time has come . . . " and something else along that line. I
didn't understand what it was all about. I walked around the group trying to
get a look at the owner of the tape recorder. But the circle drew in tighter.
New people started coming from various directions, five here, seven there. And
the comments started: "Right, we should slaughter the Armenians!" and "There's
no need to be afraid, all of Moscow is behind us." I even heard that: "All
Moscow is behind us." Well I watched and listened in and realized that this
was no joke. I quietly left and went home.

Now before that at work I had heard that something was going on in Karabagh,
that there were demonstrations there. Well, people were saying all kinds of
things, but I didn't have any idea what was really going on.

My wife and son were at home, but my daughter was at my aunt's house in Baku.
I didn't say anything to my wife. We sat and drank tea. Sometime around two
o'clock right behind our house suddenly there is noise, whistling, and
shouting. I looked out the window and saw a crowd. The crowd is moving slowly,
like they show on TV when blacks in South Africa are striking or having a
demonstration and move slowly.

My wife asks what's going on out there. I say I don't know. I put on some
outdoor clothes and went out to find out what it was all about. In the crowd
people are shouting "Down with the Armenians!" and "Death to the Armenians!" I
waited for the entire crowd to pass. At first they went down Narimanov Street
on the side with the SK club and the City Party Committee; then they turned
and went against the traffic--it's one way there--down the Street of the 26
Baku Commissars toward the streetcar line. I went home and told my wife there
was a demonstration going on. In fact I thought that we were having the same
kind of demonstrations that they had had in Yerevan and in Karabagh. Aside
from the things they were shouting, I was surprised that there were only young
people in the crowd. And they were minors, under draft age.

My wife and son wanted to go upstairs to visit a friend, but I was kind of
uneasy and said, "No, let's stay at home instead." An hour went by, or maybe
an hour and a half. Well, I wasn't keeping track of the time, I can't say
exactly how long it was. I look and see another crowd on Narimanov, but now on
the side with the microdistricts, the bazaar, and the Rossiya movie theater.

I put outside clothes on and went out again. There's noise, an uproar outside,
and the crowd has grown. There are more people. And whereas the first time
there were individual shouts, this time they are more focused, more
aggressive. No, I think, something's wrong here, this isn't any demonstration.
They would run, stop, then walk quickly and make sharp dashes, and then run
again. I was walking along the sidewalk and they were in the street. I
followed them. I was thinking I'd just watch and see. Who knew where this was
leading? We came out on Lenin Square. At the square the SK club is on one
side, and the City Party Committee is on the other. I went toward the square
and heard noise and shouting, as though the whole town had turned out. There
was some sort of a rally going on. I go closer and hear exclamations, appeals.
I heard both anti-Armenian and anti-Soviet appeals. "We don't need
perestroika, we want to go on living like we have been." Now what did they
mean by "living like we have been?" The Azerbaijanis work like everyone else.
But too many people live at the expense of the government and at the expense
of others. Speculation, theft, and cheating go on all the time. And not just
in Azerbaijan, everywhere, in all the republics, but I've never seen it
anywhere else like I have in Azerbaijan.

Now at this rally someone says that they should go around to the Armenians'
apartments and drive them out, beat them and drive them out. True, I didn't
hear them say "kill them" over the microphone, I only heard "beat them and
drive them out." I stayed at the square a few minutes longer. First one, then
another are going up onto the stage, and no one tries to stop the crowd. Off
to the side of the crowd there were small groups of three or four people, and
I think they were MVD [Ministry of Internal Affairs] or State Security KGB.
There were also uniformed policemen there, but I didn't see any of them try
to pacify the crowd. New people kept coming up onto the stage.

Well I had finally decided that this could end badly: This was no
demonstration, and I had to protect my family.

I left the Square to return home and suddenly noticed a truck. It was next
to the City Party Committee, on Narimanov Street, it stood next to the tai-
lor's shop there, a low truck, and it had low, wooden panels. I see that some-
thing is being unloaded, crates of some sort. I decided to go look because
after all those appeals I was apprehensive and thought there might be weapons
in there. They pulled the crates out onto the square, not toward the City
Party Committee, but toward the SK club. And when I went right up to them I
saw that they were cases of vodka. There were two people handing down the
cases from the bed of the truck, and on the ground there were many people, 15
to 20. They were handing them down from the truck and each case was carried
off by two people. Two people, one case of vodka. And there was a man standing
right next to the truck and he was handing out roundish black lumps, maybe
about the size of a fist, maybe a little bigger or smaller. It was anasha.
When I passed next to that person, he stood with his side to me. There was
about a yard and a half between us, and two people were standing near him. He
has a package in his hand, and he's pulling out anasha and handing it out. I
have never smoked it myself. Once I tried it for fun, but I've seen a lot of
people smoke it, I've seen it many times, and I know what it is. I strolled
around and no one asked me who I was or what I was doing there.

Before I got to the Glass Bazaar I heard more howling, more warlike shouting.
I turned around and saw them running. Well I'll just keep on going like I am,
I thought. When they caught up with me I saw that they were carrying flags.
And I recognized the person who was carrying the flag on my side of the
street. He's a young guy, 21 or 22 years old. He was carrying a red flag,
which had "Ermeni oryum" written on it in Azerbaijani, that means "Death to
Armenians!" That guy used to live off the same courtyard as us. I don't really
know what his name is, but I know his father very well. His father's name is
Rafik; he used to be a cook, and then became head chef. He used to have a dark
blue Zhiguli van, then he sold it and now he has a white Zhiguli 06. His
family, as I said, lived on the same courtyard as we did. Our building was on
Narimanov Street, and theirs was on the Street of the 26 Baku Commissars;
their apartment was in the far entryway, on the fifth floor, the door on the
left. Now Rafik's little brother lives there, and he, Rafik, I heard, got a
new apartment either in the forth or eighth microdistrict. In a word, his son
was carrying a flag that said "Death to Armenians!" I was surprised because
before this I had gotten the impression that all of this nonsense was being
done not by people from Sumgait, but by Azerbaijanis from Agdam and Kafan.

Well anyway I went home. My wife was upset. I told her, "It's OK, it'll pass,
they're young kids, they've just gotten all whooped up." Naturally I didn't
want her to get overly upset. After a while a new surge of crowd went by. And
this time they were breaking glass. I could hear it breaking, but I couldn't
see where. Well I think, here we go, the machine's in motion. They weren't
handing out that vodka and anasha for nothing. I didn't see people drinking
and smoking on the spot, but they certainly hadn't unloaded the vodka and
hashish to put in a store window!

So the thought flashed through my head that the machine was running, no one
would stop them now, they weren't even trying, although, I'll say it again,
the police were there, I saw them. And it's not just that the police weren't
breaking them up, they were joking with them, they were having a good time.
True, at the time I couldn't even imagine that under our government, our much-
vaunted leadership--and I'm not afraid to say these words: so many people
died, So many women were abused, and how many abominations there were!--I
couldn't imagine that under our much-vaunted authorities, and if I were to be
specific, I would say under the much-touted authorities in our city of
Sumgait, I couldn't imagine that such things could take place.

When they started breaking glass I told my wife and son: "Let's go upstairs."
We went to our neighbors, the Grigorians, on the fourth floor. And in the
evening, when those crowds started going past again, I went outside once more.
I stopped at "The Corner," a place called that right next to the bazaar. I
look and see a crowd on the run. And there, a few yards from the entrance to
the bazaar, are three respectable-looking men of around, say, 50 years old.
The crowd was running and one of the three waved with his arm and pointed
toward the bazaar. And then the whole crowd, as though it were one person,
wheeled and raced toward the bazaar. And not a soul went past those three, as
though it were off limits! Well everything got all churned up, there was more
noise, and the glass was flying again.

We spent the night at the neighbors'. My apartment was on the first floor,
there was really no way to defend yourself there.

In the morning I went out to buy bread and to see what was happening in town.
On the way I saw someone hunched up, still. I never found out who it was or
what happened to him. There were 10 to 15 people standing near him. I got the
bread and on my way back, they had gathered around the person who was lying
there hunched up, sort of enclosing him; because of the way they were standing
you couldn't even see him.

That was on the morning of February 28. Everyone knows the rest.

   May 17, 1988
   Yerevan

		     - - - reference - - -

[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,
    Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by
    Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 161-164


Joystick A:
1        +5 VDC
2        Button 1
3        X Axis
4        Ground
5        Ground
6        Y Axis
7        Button 2
8        + 5 VDC
Joystick B:
9        +5 VDC
10        Button 1
11        X Axis
12        Ground
13        Y axis
14        Button 2
15        +5 VDC

---
 . SLMR 2.1 . Soft judges make hardened criminals.


Didn't your operating system come with X?  SysV usually does as far
as I know.  You'd do best to contact the people from whom you bought
ths OS.  If you're running Linux or something similar, good luck. :)


Thanks to everyone who sent replies regarding this case.  A few of them were
very informative and helped very much.


If you can find a copy of "8088 Assembler Language Programming: The IBM PC"
by Willen and Krantz, 2nd ed. pub. by Sams, there is a discussion of the
game control adapter, monostable multivibrators, and conversion to other
uses, as well as an assembler program. If you need greater accuracy, there
is no reason you couldn't modify the approach to suit your needs.