• Naru2008Naru2008 ✭✭✭✭
    MistyTera wrote: »
    MistyTera wrote: »
    I'm surprised that they are ignoring, when simply XIGNCODE was proven to cause BSODs.

    EVEN A BSODs should be enough to notify that this ANTI-HACK tool is garbage!
    Look, any driver can cause a BSOD. I troubleshooted a BSOD on my machine that was caused by an old version of VPN software that installed a network driver that didn't uninstall properly. I troubleshooted a BSOD that was caused by a controller driver, even when the controller wasn't plugged in at all. I troubleshooted BSODs caused by incompatibilities introduced by Microsoft themselves in new Windows updates that required them to release another update to fix the first update they broke. Not to mention BSODs caused routinely by video card drivers, audio drivers, network drivers, and on and on. At least we're no longer living in the Windows ME days when you'd get a BSOD basically all the time because things were just that unstable.

    Respectfully, your whole thing about "oh no it causes a BSOD!" is another piece of fear-mongering paranoia that won't be taken seriously, even though XIGNCODE is not fit for purpose.

    BUT IT WAS LINKED TO WELLBIA/XIGNCODE FILES IN THE BSOD! Counterpoint, where is your head?

    I've begun wondering why you're all over the place. I know your paranoia about Discord. Literally everyone uses it.

    You continue to sit here and draw all these left-field claims, but have no basis for it. At this point, you're spamming and flooding the forum with this nonsense, and need to stop. You're violating the rules at this point.

    You have legitimate concerns, just like everyone else, but you're actually making the problem WORSE by spreading the paranoia without any basis for your claims, just like with Chrome saying their website was malware, when it was literally nothing less than an unsecured connection to GOOGLE for loading a CUSTOM FONT for the WEBSITE.

    Please, you're not helping your case, or anyone else's. You're making the true complaints become buried in non-sense and paranoia, making it worse. Please Misty. Stop.
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    MistyTera wrote: »
    FORGET IT! EME/BHS if you really want know? The truth...


    Causes BSODs (conflicts with Kernel)
    Causes ruined SDDs
    Very intrusive on some gaming devices and programs. Even windows system files!

    Releasing something that awful, shouldn't be considered, and is unprofessional!

    Xigncode3 on Tera doesn't really do much of anything in terms of system resources. Under normal conditions it has non-existent cpu and disk usage with memory only taking up ~2mb. It's only a minority group, like with every other form of software, that is seeing issues. Now, rather than actually fixing the problem, or sharing any data so EME can fix it too, there's people making up a bunch of exaggerated lies.

    If you know nothing about BSODs, there's a Windows forum dedicated purely to finding out what causes them and any steps you may take to resolve them. For those having performance issues, it is as simple as disabling every non-essential software, running the game, then enabling one or a couple at a time until the problem shows up. Otherwise, following your logic, NVidia's software is also intrusive malware out to take over the world because it causes BSODs or made a handful of games unplayable unless you disabled it under the Windows 10 startup until it got fixed.

    Also, your suggested alternatives to Xigncode3, contrary to your typical lying, has in fact also caused BSODs or performance issues. The same is true for every single other additional software for other games, even from big publishers like Riot and Blizzard. You also have the option of sticking to console gaming over PC gaming if all the complexities that come with playing games on a PC is that unbearable, unless you truly do enjoy your fictional story telling and conspiracies, as that's what you'll have to do on every official forum for any game due to them all using additional software that causes some sort of issue and collects data.
    LegateTR wrote: »
    I find it amusing how many people consistently hop on eme's [filtered] and defend even their dumbest choices like it's their job.

    Let's all just agree XIGNCODE needs to go.

    Not agreeing with lies=/=supporting failed software.
  • As someone who spends the better part of their workday doing programming work... this is rich. Feels like when you see someone who knows nothing about cars arguing with mechanics about what their car "needs", since they watched a 5 minute YouTube video "explaining" it.

    ...I would like to make a request. Sure, we all know BSODs are bad. We can agree there. But please... if you don't actually understand what any of the tech jargon means - if you just are Googling a Microsoft tech page and copy-pasting, maybe with a few bolded sections for emphasis - then stop. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

    Every non-trivial program allocates memory. Every non-trivial program accesses memory. This is a simple fact of computer life. It does not matter whether you work on Minesweeper, or the guts of a system-level driver. Memory is a basic, fundamental feature of modern computer design - and allocation/access simply means you are using it. A program that uses no memory does nothing. (And perhaps would make a good entry in the obfuscated C contest.)

    When your normal program screws up, it crashes. This can manifest in many ways - the infamous "not responding", maybe a crash report dialog, etc. Either way, your program is isolated, so the host OS can chop it off and let the rest of the computer continue. For a good example, look at TERA - when it goes down, it just dies, and you're back at the launcher.

    When your driver screws up, it most certainly can cause a BSOD. There's not much lower-level than a driver, after all. There is no isolation at that level - a failing driver can take a lot of stuff out with it. For example, a driver has access to core kernel data structures - if the kernel detects one of those has gotten flubbed up, the kernel HAS to stop everything, or risk further corruption.

    IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL is one of those. It's a bugcheck, meaning the kernel noticed something happen that shouldn't have happened, and stopped to prevent further damage. "AHA", you say, "IT CAUGHT AN EVIL VIRU-" no. Stop talking and shut up. The kernel has no such concepts. Someone used stale pointer, or perhaps it referred to paged memory (which couldn't be paged in due to the current IRQL), or any number of things - it's been a while since I wrote drivers, so maybe I'm a little rusty in that knowledge. But it's likely almost any small thing. Dumb things. Logical errors. The kind of problems that bad programmers make (and even good ones, albeit less frequently).

    Is this BSOD good? No. Of course not.

    But it is not some kind of indictment of evil corporate espionage, or malicious accesses, or anything like that. It's just what it is - a faulty program, who just happens to be faulty at the driver level.
  • MistyTera wrote: »


    I'm not "opposing" you; quit acting like you're some victim or martyr. This xigncode thing is worthless garbage. I want it gone from TERA. We (almost) all do. And none of us said it "should" be causing a BSOD. The BSOD is bad, and should be fixed, as all programming problems should be fixed.

    But you're not helping.

    You're drowning the thread in hyperbole and misinformation. If you don't understand something, why try to present it as fact? Because now people spend dozens of posts arguing back and forth about it. If all you really were sure of was that this garbage shouldn't be BSOD-ing us, then just say that. And we'd all have saved pages worth of discussion.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    MistyTera wrote: »
    pltnmvenus wrote: »
    But you're not helping.

    I was a victim of martyr with XIGNCODE by BSOD from past experience! I'm evaluating by observations. Trying to understand what's going on! I'm sorry if you take it wrong. However, opposing me on my searches. I'm trying to my best, when I'm not computer savvy at all! Still correct me, but not like some person that is creating drama! We are trying to do this together!

    Do you know that a BSOD can happen with only Windows installed without anything more in your PC?

    Do you know that a 100% disc usage can happen with only Windows process running and some times for a long time making your SSD life shorter?

    Why are you not complaining about that on MS support forums?
  • TomRipleyTomRipley ✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    From what I've seen, EME won't remove xigncode.
    So, given that, your only choice is to either leave or live with it.

    I really appreciate your research, and I get that you are desperately trying to get your Tera fix again, but let's face it: EME (and BHS) won't do jack sh*t about the xigncode, you can either accept it or leave.

    KitTeaCup will, at some point, release an FAQ, but there will be no actual discussion.

    I've already made my peace with Tera. It's 3k+ hours, but life moves on. If EME doesn't want me, I say: let them go on with gold sellers posting every 5 seconds on every chat they can hijack, let people outside of established guilds wait ages for a queue to pop, let potato PC players struggle with 15-20ish fps (if lucky).

    It's their decision. Obvisouly, EME rather wants a no use 3rd party program forced unto everyone instead of a flourishing or even stable playerbase. Who are we to question it? There's better things in life to pursue than still debating about Tera getting a grip after 3+ years.

    PS In case someone is wondering why I'm stlil here: it's the free popcorn.
  • Hey @MistyTera
    you need to relax and chill a bit.

    no one is disagreeing with you
    no one likes this software
    there are no pro's, it's all con's
    it's even bad for EME/BHS

    so far as I can tell the only people benefiting are Wellbia.

    There is no need to create complex technical arguments that experts can easily poke holes in, if XIGNCODE is causing BSOD's then it is clearly doing something it should not be doing... end of story. Whether it is malicious intent or just incompetent design is totally irrelevant.
    It's just another excellent reason to throw on the massive pile of reasons why this cancer should be removed from the game.
  • In general, yes. Stuff done on the server side is safer, more secure, and less prone to hacking than stuff done on the client.

    A pretty fundamental rule when designing a client/server system is that the client cannot be trusted, ever. Period. The client runs on someone else's computer. You have no way (as a game developer, or website owner, or whatever) of knowing what that user is doing. What programs they have installed. What hacks and tweaks and stuff they might have. Anything important or critical must be verified by the server - because a sufficiently savvy user can (and will) make the client lie.

    Really, there are two fundamental ways to combat hacks and glitches and stuff. Either you find the bug/hole that allows the exploit and you fix it, or you leave the bug/hole in and prevent anyone from ever being able to exploit it. Obviously, the first is better; the second is just a bandaid. Xigncode is the second - it tries to stop you from running TERA with any "bad" programs, which would (in theory) stop exploits without ever having to fix the underlying bugs/holes.

    ...Doing it properly - actually stopping crap at the server, instead of just tossing some police tape up around your game - is much, much harder. It takes time, money, and effort. It doesn't surprise me that much that BHS opts to forgo actually fixing their code, instead paying someone else for a bandaid.
This discussion has been closed.