Mission 02: Qliphoth (V's Secret Mission 04 occurs in the hotel area) - Seen in background

Wouldn't V's cameo in Mission 02 be a plot hole, since he does that during his Mission 05, while his Mission 04 is simultaneous with Nero's Mission 03? Or do we have something in canon to suggest that Secret Missions do some light time travel?(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 14:14, April 24, 2019 (UTC)

Naw, I don't think the secret missions really occur in the timeline at all, it's just using a recording of that secret mission to show V doing stuff at the same time as Nero is in the hotel, not that V's secret mission actually takes him back in time or something. Evil Tim (talk) 21:49, April 24, 2019 (UTC)
I mean, do we have anything in canon or from the directors to verify that?(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 19:41, April 26, 2019 (UTC)
Do we have anything to verify the alternative assumption that Nero is watching V from a later mission, even though that would make no sense? Cameos are generally a little wonky plot-wise, the Prologue cameo, if it's a player, is often going to show Dante using weapons and abilities he doesn't have yet. But I don't see any reason to assume that recording SM04 for that scene means you're supposed to be looking at V in M05. Evil Tim (talk) 19:53, April 26, 2019 (UTC)
SM04 should be considered canon since not only is there a cutscene in M02 which explicitly closes in on V in the background and Nero comments on it, but V also appears after Nero defeats the Goliath, which ties in to him being around that area. The gameplay mechanic in SM04 can't be canon. (i.e the way V enters the Secret Mission) Akaza 20:10, April 26, 2019 (UTC)
What do you mean it "should be considered canon?" There's no plot to any of the secret missions, they just warp you into some existing area with arbitrary rules which for no apparent reason gives you an Orb fragment if you beat a challenge. I don't think any entry in the series has treated a secret mission as an event in the game's world rather than something that exists because it's a videogame.
What I don't doubt they did was say "we can record V doing stuff from this mission, so it'll look like an actual fight rather than being scripted." I don't see any reason to assume that scene shows anything other than V fighting demons in M02 while Nero watches, the combat just happens to be recorded from an area in the no-plot zone rather than them putting together a parallel mission for V as they normally would. Evil Tim (talk) 20:23, April 26, 2019 (UTC)
It's canon only in the sense that V was there at that time of the day, since there is a cutscene about it and then later a voice line during Nero's gameplay. Dante's cameo in the Prologue is also canon. The gameplay around it, such as if Dante is in NG+ and is using the DSD can't be canon because it makes no sense, same goes for any cameo where the Nero player is in NG+ with his arm back.
The mechanic around Secret Missions in general makes no sense of course because that'd mean V teleports through time, but the fact that he was there during the time M02 takes place is canon, don't you think? All the cameos make sense from a story perspective, including this one. Akaza 20:58, April 26, 2019 (UTC)
Oh sure, I was mostly addressing the other user's idea that there was some kind of plot hole in V being there because it's recorded from a secret mission later, when obviously that isn't the idea. As you say, V being there is canon, but it being him in the secret mission from M05 is not. Evil Tim (talk) 07:43, April 27, 2019 (UTC)
Honestly I don't know why there is this confusion in the first place. It's not like the game doesn't feature non-linear narrative already. The player jumps back and forth to various points in the story all the time, and it has nothing to do with timetravel. Starring: DEADWEIGHT 11:46, April 27, 2019 (UTC)
And that's completely irrelevant to what we see in that scene, though. Nero's Mission 02 explicitly comes before his mission 03. V's Mission 04 is explicitly before V's Mission 05. However, Nero's Mission 02 depicts V's Secret Mission 04, which (from V's point of view) occurs during his Mission 05. Either V's traveling back in time, or the Secret Missions allow them to somehow reexperience events they've already experienced. Either way, the events of V's Secret Mission 04 are depicted as in continuity with the plot, not as mere gamecruft. I'm not seeing where anyone provides compelling evidence that SM04 isn't in continuity besides claiming that it "obviously" must be.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 23:57, May 5, 2019 (UTC)
Either I am missing something really, really hard, or you are reading way too much into this, KK. So what if an encapsulated part of a mission, a Secret Mission, jumps back in time? It's still a narrative jump. Some cutscenes jump very suddenly like this - in particular at least two sequences during the mission when Dante just woke up.
Even if that is still... somehow... not a satisfactory explanation to you, I fail to see how this is even important. That little trivia adds absolutely nothing to the plot, it's just done for the convenience of the Cameo system. We can't even argue whether it's canon or not because it adds or subtracts precisely zero to the canon either way. Starring: DEADWEIGHT 00:51, May 6, 2019 (UTC)
It's not satisfactory, no, because it's not actually answering the question I'm posing. The presentation of an entire mission as a flashback, or having flashbacks in the opening and closing scenes of a mission, is different from doing so in the middle of a mission -- particularly when the location in question can only be accessed via secret mission portal. There's no other entrances or exits.
"That little trivia adds absolutely nothing to the plot" -- we have a shit-ton of trivia notes that are even worse, come on.
"it adds or subtracts precisely zero to the canon either way." -- it adds an in-universe implication that the secret missions are more than just gamecruft and have a real plot presence, similar to when in Kingdom Hearts, various characters acknowledge the save points as real objects, not just gameplay conceits. It's also not tonally dissonant with the series, considering that the characters very often do take time away from their mission to show off, and that time and space manipulation is rampant.
The point is we have justification (1) to treat secret missions as "real" to the plot, not just gameplay conceits, and (2) to either have a trivia dit noting the somewhat amusing plot hole, or to interpret the secret missions as being one of the many forms of time manipulation in the series.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 13:54, May 9, 2019 (UTC)
Is it presented as a flashback? I don't think V sees Nero during that secret mission, I'd have to check. Evil Tim (talk) 18:47, May 9, 2019 (UTC)


Date Time Nero V Dante
June 157:27 AMM06M05
Nero and V make their way towards the main Qliphoth tree. Nero slays the Gilgamesh treading across the city, while V encounters the Cavaliere Angelo and its Elder Geryon steed, who he chases off.
Cameo system: Nero's battle against Gilgamesh is visible while V makes his way through the cargo ship, and vice versa. Whether V defeats the Gilgamesh's legs determines whether they come up damaged or not.
?? M13

Draft idea:

  • when missions with different "times" have cameo system, the listed time would show both (ex. "6:26-6:35 AM")
  • The "Story" snippets from loading screens should be catalogued somewhere, but the timeline in this (or other proper) article should avoid beating around the bush (ex. "Gilgamesh" instead of "colossal demonic monstrosity"). The synopsis we use here should use the story snippets as a guide for what to focus on.
  • This can probably be converted into several mini-templates to make it easier to code (ex. the cameo system line, the colors of cells, the mission links).(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 14:39, April 24, 2019 (UTC)

M5, 6? Edit

Are we sure that M05 and M06 don't have real-time matching? Seems like they'd be more important than 14-16.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 13:44, May 9, 2019 (UTC)

I've never seen any name but my own in 6, and I don't think the name even appears in 5. Evil Tim (talk) 18:49, May 9, 2019 (UTC)