Sunday, August 9, 2015

Male - Female Friendships Part Two: How Females View Male Friends

Part One


In yesterday's post, I talked about male-female friendships mostly from the perspective of males. Now I'd like to shift to focusing on females and how they view friendships with us. First, it's important to understand one critical point - when you first meet a woman in real life (I doubt online interactions count), she's going to make an impression of you based on some fairly obvious criteria. As a result of that first meeting, she's going to place you on one of two ladders - the "Real Ladder" or the "Friends Ladder."

If you're placed on the Real Ladder, she's sexually attracted to you. That means she would not only be willing to hook up with you, but also sees you as potential relationship material. Read the linked post in the last paragraph for a more detailed explanation. 

If you're placed on the Friends Ladder, she is not sexually attracted to you. If she doesn't immediately reject you and keeps you around, you will forever be in her Friendzone (there are exceptions in the same linked post.) 

The Idea of Orbiters

In the last post, I mentioned "Orbiters." If you've been placed on her Friends Ladder, you are an Orbiter. Orbiters are the dudes that voluntarily occupy a woman's friendzone. They stay there because, per their mating strategy, they sincerely believe being a woman's friend allows them the opportunity to demonstrate their value by treating the woman like a princess. They don't understand that placing a woman on a pedestal is the worst way to increase a woman's sexual desire. Still, they persist. 

Women with orbiters are often accused, usually unfairly, of "leading men on." I don't buy into that because most women genuinely believe the dudes are entirely platonic friends. It's the men that set up the "if I'm nice, you'll reciprocate with affection and/or sex" expectation. Still, women usually maintain the friendship because it often provides a tangible benefit. Some of these benefits may include:

  • Companionship - The Orbiter provides the woman with company. This is the most "pure" and innocent form of male-female friendship. She just likes him as a person and enjoys his company. If he didn't think of her as a potential sexual partner (which may happen if he is much higher value and she's in his Abyss, she's dating or married to an important friend or family member, or if he's gay), these friendships can be very mutually-fulfilling.
  • Social proof - A woman surrounded by dudes is perceived as having a higher value to males she may be interested in versus a woman that is alone. Orbiters give social proof, or the appearance she's desired. This is especially effective if the Orbiters are attractive themselves.
  • Emotional validation - Humans like to know they're right. We like to know our emotional expression is the correct emotional expression. Orbiters are kind of like "Yes Men" in this way. No matter what batshit crazy emotional response women may have, the Orbiters will tell her it is completely justified. 
  • Sexual validation - Humans also like to feel desired sexually. Honestly, this is where I think some females cross an ethical line. They have zero intent to ever enter into a sexual relationship with their Orbiters, but they may sexually tease them to feel desired. 
  • Gain material goods and services - This one is a little morally-questionable to me, too, but maybe not quite as much. If a dude is willing to buy his crush shit and run her errands, that's his prerogative. 
  • Amusement (court jester) - This isn't "he's a funny persona that makes me laugh" so much as "my friends and i laugh because he's so pathetic." I don't see this happen too often in the adult world, but I did see it a lot when I was a high school teacher. The hot popular girl would lead on her "friend" Orbiter because his cluelessness amused her. 
  • Emotional tampon - This is the proverbial "shoulder to cry on" task many Orbiters complain about bitterly. His crush dates an "asshole"; when they break up she looks to him for emotional comfort. This is confusing to the dude because, since he doesn't understand that he's on the wrong ladder, he genuinely believes he would and should be a "better man" for her. 
Animated Batman does not understand Ladder Theory

It was kind of tough deciding which memes to share as part of this post, so I'll just go with this one:

If you were nodding at any of those, you might want to consider joining our Facebook group...

What About "Friends with Benefits?"

Ah, friends with benefits. Too many dudes look at that construct and conflate it with Orbiters. If you're friends with a woman and she's fucking you, you're not on her Friend Ladder. You're on her Real Ladder. Congrats! In fact, she would be considered a Plate. Women like sex just as much as guys (though their actual sex drive isn't as strong unless they're ovulating.) 

What makes women different is they don't desire to fuck almost anything like guys do. Blame evolution for that one... the cost of fucking a low-value loser, given the rigors and dangers of pregnancy, birth, and the subsequent child-rearing is FAR greater for a woman than a man. As such, men rarely if ever experience sexual revulsion. Women, however, DO experience sexual revulsion. THAT is what separates their Real and Friend Ladders. Being sexual with someone on their Friend Ladder would be like licking the toilet bowl in the Taco Bell bathroom on a Saturday night.

The moral of the story - Orbiters and Friends with Benefits are completely different constructs to a woman. 

Using a Female's Male AND Female Friends to Assess Personality Quirks and Spot Red Flags

This is an excellent skill men can use to assess a woman's value, especially as a potential long-term partner. Women are excellent at assessing men; that's the whole point of shit tests. However, since a great deal of female value is visual, the only other thing we're pretty good at is assessing if she'll likely have sex with us in a timely fashion. We're kinda bad at assessing her suitability for a long-term relationship, so we usually rely on advice like this:

This video, by the way, isn't necessarily incorrect. ;-)

Anyway, assessing a woman's friendship patterns with both men and women can offer A LOT of insight to a particular woman's personality (and suitability for long-term relationships.)

The Good Signs

  • She has a lot of male and female friends, with some close, long-term female friends. This is a powerful indicator that she's emotionally stable and socially-competent. She knows enough about male and female behaviors to effectively navigate life. She's probably the best bet for long-term relationships.
  • She has only female friends and a few have been long-term friends. Same deal as above, but she's not going to be a sympathetic to male issues. That lack of empathy might be problematic and lead to some fights, but she's otherwise stable.

The Major Red Flags

  • She has no friends. She has no social skills and her ability to maintain a relationship is seriously suspect. She'd better bring A LOT more to the table. 
  • She has no close friends. If she normally cycles friends regularly or all of her friends are due to propinquity (people she works with, people that live a door or two away), that usually means her social skills are decent but she's a drama queen that burns bridges. 
  • All of her friends are family members. This woman suffers the same problem as the woman with no friends, but also has the problem of family members constantly inflating her ego. This is bad news.

Run for the Fucking Hills!

  • She has only guy friends and she's hot. When a woman cannot make friends with other women (usually by complaining women are "too catty" or "backstabbing bitches", it's not a problem with every other woman. It's a problem with her. If she's really attractive, this usually means she needs male validation and gets it sexually. She's a plate to at least a few high value alpha dudes.
  • She has only guy friends and she's not hot. Some deal as above, except she'll surround herself with beta Orbiters which she uses for validation. This particular woman also tends to feel a sense of entitlement ("I deserve a hot, rich, loyal man!") even though she herself is low value. 


Females have two kinds of male friends: Orbiters on her Friends Ladder and "guys I'd fuck" on her Real Ladder. Once you're on the Friends Ladder, you're not getting to the Real Ladder because she's sexually-repulsed by you. Orbits are NOT Friends with Benefits. Once you understand these points, you can then use the information to assess a woman's potential for a long-term relationship. Good luck, gentlemen!


Some science:

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