Rossi To Test The Ducati At Valencia

It appears the decision the world has been waiting for has finally been taken: According to MCN's Matt Birt, Valentino Rossi will be allowed to test the Ducati at Valencia. It appears that Rossi was told by Masao Furusawa on Saturday night that he would be allowed to test after the final MotoGP round of the year.

The decision had been almost inevitable, but Yamaha had been holding off on announcing for as long as possible. It has long been customary for factories to allow their departing riders to test for their new teams after the final race, the only exception in recent history being Valentino Rossi, after he left Honda to join Yamaha. Ducati had already set an example by releasing Casey Stoner early to test for Honda, the team he joins for 2011, and Rossi had expected Yamaha to do the same. Yamaha, however, had been playing their cards close to their chest, in part as this was the only leverage they had over Rossi to ensure he did not hinder his teammate Jorge Lorenzo's bid for the 2010 championship.

With Lorenzo's title secured at Sepang, that leverage was no longer needed, and Rossi could be told he was free to test the Ducati. The Bologna factory will be bringing two different engine configurations to Valencia for Rossi to test, a screamer and a big bang. The data from that test will then be used to assess which configuration will be raced in 2011.

In the end, this was a decision Yamaha had little choice in. The public outcry was already growing, and the situation could have turned into a PR disaster had Yamaha refused to allow Rossi to test. The reduced winter testing program also made it much more difficult to refuse: When Honda stopped Rossi from testing the Yamaha until December 31st, testing was almost unlimited, and Rossi had five or six tests in February and March before the season began. If Yamaha had refused to release Rossi, he would have lost two days of testing at Valencia, with only six more days at Sepang and a night test at Qatar before the start of the 2011 season. Allowing Rossi to ride the Ducati at Valencia gives Yamaha a PR boost, while meaning that Rossi only really gains two more days of testing. The advantage for Ducati is that they will have three months over the winter to work on the data which Rossi produces at Valencia.

The decision also brings to an end any speculation about the immediate future of Valentino Rossi. The Italian is now almost certain to finish the season, and ride at the last two races of the year in Estoril and Valencia. Speaking in the post-race press conference at Phillip Island, Rossi confirmed that he intended to see out the season, and then test the Ducati. He told the press he had a medical appointment scheduled for his return to Italy, to assess the state of his shoulder, but that he hoped he would be given the green light to ride. He will then have an operation to fix the problem as soon as possible after the test. Rossi also told the media that he felt it was a great gesture on the part of Yamaha to allow him to test the Ducati, and a token of their appreciation for all he has done for the brand over the years.

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This is a very exciting news indeed !

When was the last time the MotoGP was aroused to this level ? Stoner to try the Honda, Rossi on the Ducati., Ben Spies with the engine-that-has-all-the-right-parts.

I "bet" there will be as much people in Valencia for the test that for the race :)

Bring it on !

... But I'm glad Yamaha, like Ducati, have taken the high road and are letting Rossi test in Valencia. Who knows? Maybe all the fan postings on your site David helped with Yamaha making the correct decision!

Either way, it will be interesting to read your post after the testing. Especially in light of trying the screamer vs. the big bang engines along with Rossi's initial comfort on the 2011 Ducati chasis.

Additionally, I assume this will mean that Rossi will hold off on the shoulder surgery until after Valencia ... something DORNA will be happy about along with Rossi fans as we get the final two races with him on the grid.

Good decision Yamaha.

The names are descriptive. The canonical "big bang" engine would fire each of its two cylinders as a pair, making for two big bangs instead of four smaller ones. In practice, big bang engines just fire cylinders much more closely, rather than actually simultaneously, in part because of the huge loads having two cylinders firing at the same time would place on the crankshaft and gears.

A "screamer" fires its cylinders at equally spaced intervals, in the case of a four cylinder, at 180 degree intervals. Because it fires more frequently at the same revs, it makes a much higher-pitched howl, which gives it its name: Screamer.

Well, I'm confused about 180 degree intervals for the "screamer". My guess would have been 90 degree intervals, so would somebody please explain this to me? Full disclosure: math was never my strong subject area. Thanks.

In a four-stroke engine, ignition occurs once every second rotation, or in other words, once every 720 degrees. With a four-cylinder four-stroke engine, each of the cylinders has to fire once every 720 degrees. A screamer configuration (what most normal road bikes are) sees the ignition spaced evenly apart, i.e. 720 / 4 = 180 degrees. Yamaha's M1 (and their R1 road bike) uses what they call a "long bang" configuration, which fires each cylinder 90 degrees apart, then has one full 360 degree rotation with no cylinders being fired.

Basically, once you realize that in a four-stroke engine, a single cylinder fires once every 720 degrees, or two full crankshaft rotations, then the maths gets easier.

Does the configure of the motor make a difference in choice of Big Bang or Screamer. I work in the HD world and that's a Big Bang, Long stroke 45 degree world, with a rev limit of 6500. Now the V-rod arrives with a wider degree,shorter stroke and revs to 8K. 1 thru 6 cylinders, V twins V fours, OEM Fours I know they all are 4 strokes but some rev and others don't...big bang or screamer choice?

You don't have a power stroke with every revolution, therefore the crank will actually rotate 720* for each cylinders complete cycle.

David, as for big bang, I don't know how the new Ducatis and Yamahas are doing it, but on my old oil cooled GSXR it fired off two cylinders at a time simultaneously. i.e. 1 and 4 were fired from the same coil using just one impulse signal and the same for 2 and 3.

This is very common. Most road bikes will fire their ignition coils every revolution (almost as if it were two-stroke), but the spark is wasted, as it fires right at the end of the exhaust stroke and the start of the intake stroke. The mixture going into the engine is not very flammable at that point in time. I'm presuming it's a lot cheaper to produce ignition systems with wasted sparks than to create a system with a single spark for each cylinder, and it's not detrimental to the performance of the bike. 

David, didn't Kawasaki use a screamer for a little while a few years ago, but then decided against it? I don't know what engine types are used currently by the different bikes other than Yamaha using the "Long Bang". Maybe that could make for an interesting write up... the "engines of the 4-stroke era".

Glad they released him to test,because I can't wait to see who's going to test who.The bike or the rider,chicken or the egg !!
#46 wins 46 for Yamaha and #27 wins 23 for Ducati.

Come to think of it, 23 wins at the premier class really is a lot. Perhaps we got a bit disctracted by Rossi's terrific numbers, but Casey is carving his way up the ranks too. To think he might soon leave Schwantz and Rainey behind...

And Casey is still the most successful rider in the 800 era in terms of race wins (23 vs 21 for Rossi). He is the one who won the most races these last 4 years!
However Rossi is the most successful championship-wise, being the only rider to win 2 crowns on the 800s.
Exciting news is this could change in 2011!

I'm glad Vale gets to test, but after Casey smoked everyone last night I doubt Vale will need to make very many changes to the Duc to make it faster.

I hope Rossi gives credit and thanks to Casey for "developing" the GP10/11 for him (tongue in cheek and big smile here - the riders give feedback, the engineers and programmers do the analysis, design, metallurgy, programming, integration, monitoring, etc. etc. etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I am a big Rossi fan but his stock goes down a little with me when he says stuff like " a token of their appreciation for all he has done for the brand over the years". Even if it is true (and it is to an extent) that is a little too much self aggrandizement for me.

Man o man - Casey was a man among boys last night!

Hard to say which is more accurate (or if this one sounds better or not?).

I have a hard time disagreeing with Vale - He's done a great deal for Yamaha and I think it would have been a PR nightmare for Yamaha.

Here's the URL:

Any news about the Valencia test?

“I spoke with Furusawa, and he told me that I will be allowed to test the Ducati at Valencia. I think that the decision was rightly based in part on all that I have achieved with Yamaha over the years. Also because if they keep you from testing, but there is a lot of winter testing, then it is understandable. But that isn't the case anymore."

So have you decided when the shoulder surgery will take place?

“I will have some examinations in Italy on Wednesday and Thursday. I hope they don't tell me that I have done further damage and that I have to stop riding right now. I want to race the last two rounds with Yamaha and I want to test the Ducati at Valencia. I'll let you know what the doctors say."

The following translation is not good English but it is literal, word by word:

"Penso che in qualche modo abbiano giustamente deciso di farmela provare in segno di riconoscimento per tutto quello che ho fatto per loro in questi anni."

"I think that in some way they have fairly decided to let me try it as a sign of acknowledgment for all that I have done for them in these years."


Rossi should thank Stoner as he did build the bike that won the last 2 World Championships, i would give Stoner a pat in the back if i was Rossi for what he did in 2007, but nothing else...FernandoARG

My understanding is this, but I stand to be corrected. I'm no engineer. Think about the four strokes or cycles, of the internal combustion engine - Induction, Compression, Ignition, Exhaustion (?) Thats where the 4 in 4 stroke comes from. Every time the piston is pushed up in the cylinder it behaves one of 2 functions (compression/exhaustion), likewise each time it moves down (induction/power stroke). Thats why the intervals are for every 2 rotations. There is only one power stroke for every second cycle. Not very efficient, in theory at least. Unlike 2 stroke engines that produce a power stroke every cycle. Induction and power cycle are combined and compression and exhaustion are combined due the the internal porting and lack of a valve train. Much more efficient, and why a 500cc stroker can produce as much power (more or less) as a 1000cc 4 stroke. Unfortunately 2 strokes are far less environmentally clean.

Were Honda the first to experiment with the big bang 500cc NSR that Doohan used to ride? They produced an engine with so much power only Doohan or maybe even Gardener before him could control it. It was a beast. I expect the principal was the same, 4 pistons firing in quick succession to produce a monsterous power cycle. What were the firing intervals of that NSR500, anyone remember?

-edit- : crap, i posted this out of the thread, my apologies

"Unfortunately 2 strokes are far less environmentally clean."

I think moving to direct injection would solve these issues, and in GP racing changing to 2-stroke DI engines could have provided real "from racing to road" benefits.

Glad that's finally been settled.

Will be interesting to see the lap times during the testing, particularly Hayden v Rossi and Stoner v Pedrosa. Spies will be on a real factory bike now as well.

Now that the dust has almost settled on riders and teams, does anyone know who will be crewing for Casey in 2011?

Casey is reported to take with him most of his crew from Ducati to Honda, with Suppo already on site playing a key role (probably team manager for his side of the garage), just as Vale will take most of his crew, including JB and Brivio, from Yamaha to Ducati.
Spies on his side will take part of his crew who followed him from WSBK to Yamaha Tech3 (most notably Houseworth and Woods) to the officiel Yamaha team where his former team manager in WSBK, Massimo Meregalli, will assume the team manager role for his side.

I still think the Duke will be a challenge for Rossi. Stoner is the only guy to ever succeed on it and Hayden was in disbelief about how fast Stoner was on it. To think it will be just hop on and go...I don't know it will be interesting to see. Certainly, I'm sure he'll be crazy happy about being on a V4.

in the days before traction control was very well developed (if it existed at all), the main reason the majority of folks liked (and went faster) on big bang (close firing order) motors was that, the big bang motors gave the tires time to hook back up between bangs. this made the original 2 strokes of the Doohan era much less high side prone... much like traction control today, they made the non-alien riders better. their downside is they are tougher on cranks, gears and chains (all the drive train) much like a single...

looks like Yamaha's cross plane crank (long bang) is a compromise between an even firing order and "big bang". IIRC, teams were experimenting with lots of different big bang firing spacings back in the day, that was made possible due to the geared together pair of twins that made up the V fours of the era. the phasing of the two cranks could be changed fairly easily.

I don't think Yamaha necessarily wanted (it's not out of the goodness of their hearts) to let Rossi test the Duc but they really had no choice but to acquiesce otherwise they would have faced a public relations quagmire. As is, I think they handled this whole ordeal poorly.

I agree that it is excellent news that Rossi will be allowed to test in Valencia, if he is healthy enough. Does anyone know if this, finally, allowed testing is predicated upon Rossi racing the final two races? I'm sure his desire to test the Duc will make him determined to make it happen, then have the shoulder surgery afterward if that is at all possible. But what if he has to miss even one of the next rounds?

Basically, he is saying that they were shit without me. I think Stoner did contribute to Ducati as much as Rossi did to Yamaha. If you look at his winning ratio compared to other Ducait riders, he was extraordinary good with them. But, he never says Ducati allows me to test Honda because of all the achievements I have done to them. I think Rossi is bit unprofessional to say that he was glad to see Ducati was fast at Phillip island in the post race interview. His mind is already focused on next year, and the other riders are too. But, I have never heard the other riders talking so openly about the rival teams they join next season before the season ends.

You could look at it this way.
1) If Rossi had not moved to Yamaha (and...key here...Taken Burgess and crew with him) ...Yamaha would have remained mid-pack at best (but not totally $hit, because they seemed to have been on a better path the winter that Rossi/Burgess moved over)..but mid-pack may as well be no better than $hit.
Now...Burgess wouldn't have gone without Rossi first making the I think Rossi and Burgess both deserve quite a bit of credit for Yamaha's success in recent years...certainly not ALL Rossi's doing...but quite a bit of credit is due to him...for it is HE who brought the right talented Team together at Yamaha.

2) Stoner (on the other hand) has seemed to learn to ride what no other Ducati rider could figure out....and done it blindingly-fast on whatever configuration Ducati has handed him (give or take a few crashes early this season). What is whether/how much.. Stoner influenced the development of the Ducati. I could be wrong, but it seems that Stoner adapts himself to the opposed to Rossi who adapts the bike to him...and in doing so ...he (fortunately for Yamaha) happens to make the Yamaha easier for others to follow him. (I would like to hear others comment on what Casey has/had done to help develop the impresssion is that he can ride the Hell outta anything someone gives him...and thus doesn't provide that much input on development...or worse...his style is so different from other riders that Ducati kept going down the wrong direction (that -amazingly- Casey could still ride)...and it took Ducati this long to get back to a bike that other riders -other than Casey- could realistically ride). So I give full credit to Casey for winning...but the big unknown is his role in development(?)

I don't understand, how could Casey not be much involved in the Ducati development given he's been their number one rider for 4 years, and by far the quickest, who else would they rely on?
Don't you think any factory development is based on their first rider's input?

Ok, maybe except Honda, especially in the past, but what makes you think it could be like this at Ducati?
Indeed, they are eager to start the development based on Rossi, so I would assume this is the way they work, listening to their riders.

I agree that Casey adapts to the bike and Vale produces a bike to suit him - some of Casey's comments add to this.

He said recently that development during the season is very limited at Ducati - the bike he gets at the start of the year is essentially the bike he finishes the year on, other than tweaks here and there.

Honda and Yamaha have often conducted major reviews of geometry, chassis design and engines during the year to compete.

It remains to be seen if Vale can work in this environment (I suspect he will as he is a freak :P )

The bastardisation of the the term "screamer" gets on my tits... ;/

That term was coined to describe the Doohan era 180 cranked, "double-strike" motors. While they could technically be described as having an even firing order, they were a whole different animal than what the word is used for today.

Over time, it was accidentally dumbed down to describe "even fire" motors. Just another sad casualty of the 2T era...RIP.

I would be very interested to see what configuration Rossi decides to use at the end of the test as blueprint for his GP11.

Can we somehow estimate he will prefer one firing system above the other knowing his experience with 500cc tw strokes and the M1 ? Will he go Big Bang ? Will he go screamer ?

With the Desmo,Ducati have produced extremely efficient powerplants no matter the firing order.The big issue for most who ride them is comfort zone or twilight zone handling.Its not a V-TWIN OR V-FOUR,its an L configuration,much less compact than transverse 4 or narrow V-4 configurations.This restricts engine placement,given ideal wheelbase and centre of gravity issues.To put it in a nutshell,the compromise with the L layout is sacrifice stop and go corners for fast,sweeping advantage.Witness which tracks Ducati are traditionally good at.
Stoner is just the enigma that defies the logic.He uses phenomenal lean angle to bring it in through tight stuff,then has the occasional tipped front end issue.
I reckon Rossi has seen this and will work much more on chassis issues and geometry than engines in order to find a balance that suits him.Remember,Rossi is a lot taller than all the current and past Desmosedici riders.I expect radical chassis changes between Valencia and Sepang,rather than engine changes.
Might compromise Hayden though.Like when HRC built the RC212V chassis around Dani.

Stoner has ridden a bike that NO ONE could ride! Nicky is FINALLY coming to grips w/the bike, but its been the 'death' of many/MANY riders who thought they could tame it. When Spies came to GP, he said of Stoner, that he was making the bike do things it did NOT want to do! Simo said he followed Stoner at PI and didn't have a clue as to what he was doing . . . other then he was FAST!!! IMHO Stoner is the ONLY rider that could ride a NON-electronic bike and give Rossi a run for his $$$!

no doubt major changes will have to be made especially to chassis and engine characteristics and even riding style. which is why rossi must test the different configurations so he can decide which of the engine characteristics will best suit his style. the ducati has been known to be nimble and requires a different method of riding compared to the honda and yamaha. i dont see rossi win races yet until about mid season when he would have dialed in on the gp11. he will sure run upfront but it will take alot more than that to beat lorenzo (who stays on the same bike again), stoner (who has ridden the honda before) or even dani who seemed to finally get his acts together.
what will rossi have to say about his derogatory comments towards stoner weeks ago were he said stoner doesnt stay out long enough in practise doing laps to understand the behaviour of the ducati in practise. he must feel rather stupid for having said that. over the years, we have seen it doesnt take stoner more than 2- 4 laps to understand exactly what changes he needs done on his bike. he's the best guy with bike setup in the GP and we see that with the results he's pulled outta the bag in recent times after struggling mid season.
aain, so much for a mini championship within the champioship when u finish 10sec behind ur teammate...

Modern fighter jets are designed to be inherently unstable, and rely on massive computing power to constantly trim all flight surfaces to keep them in the air. This lack of stability has a trade-off/benefit - the aircraft is extremely responsive and agile.

Maybe Casey likes his bikes to be unstable for the same reason.

One other 'minor' matter that nobody's mentioning: Keeping Vale from the Ducati this year could be a real motivation mistake. Remember that Honda tried the same thing. And the first thing Vale does is take the formerly uncompetitive Yamaha to a victory in the first race with his new team.

You don't want to give the man any more motivation than is minimally possible if he's riding against you.

Yes, I’m glad Yamaha have decided to let Valentino test at Valencia. Of course Rossi is well known for his excellent feedback and Ducati with the help of Jeremy Burgess will be able to change the bike to suit him and I’m sure Nicky as well. Nicky’s pleased Rossi and his team are coming because he knows the bike will get better. I have no doubt Valentino will be competitive straight away aka Welkom 2004.


Rossi did not say anything about Stoners riding. Rossi was asked did you learn anything about the Ducati when you are following Stoner and Rossi said. "you cannot learn anything behind Casey as he speeds up and slows down and only stays out for a couple of laps"

Rossi knows not to make comments about how another rider wants to practice or race.

to add on what Big T said, rossi did not say anything negative about stoner. he just stated what was obvious for anybody. and at the time he made the comments there were not the classic short runs that casey does and is fast on. there were even shorter runs on wich he was not that fast as the problems with the bike were not sorted yet. he would even go for one lap sometimes.
the italian press seemed to have wanted to flamme the situation and reported the story to casey as oh valentino said you are not riding the bike hard enough etc which is not what he said. you know the rest.
as for stoner being the best in setting up a bike i dont think the arguments brought above are relevant. doing short runs like casey, long consistent runs a la jorge or between the two like rossi is just a diffrent approach of working over an hour. casey is however often the fastest to be on the pace

lets not judge lorenzo's setup ability just yet cos he's not been in difficult situations and had to work his way out of it. i think that yamaha is a near complete package and just needs a few tweaks here and there to dial it in. and that lorenzo has been able to do on a rather more consistent basis- even better than rossi this season may just say a thing or two about rossi's setup strengths. especially considering that he has done all the development work on that yamaha.stoner on the other hand has had to dig himself outta front end losses and a not so good setup over the past weeks and has come out in shining colors. we have seen stoner test the 09, 10 and 11 front forks, change the bike's geometry and much more over race weekends to get where he is. most riders cant even contemplate this and would rather wait for testings to try this drastic changes. the ability to make this changes in 3 practise sessions and still run upfront albeit in 3rd position is exceptional. we must know that all the GP riders can and will eventually get a good setup if given a whole year of daily testings. what marks a rider as good with setup is how fast he gets his bike setup good cos he understands faster what changes he needs done on the bike. i must say too that there is difference between bike setup and bike development, and development is rossi's strong suit. rossi will be fast on the gp11 no doubt and that is because he has the ability to adapt his riding style like he did with the 800s, but winning races will be a rather tall order just yet. not because he's not fast but because other guys are faster than he is. time was when rossi didnt even have to push hard to be pole or get on the front row in Q cos he would always win from the 3rd or back row. not anymore. the level is so high now that just being fast wont win races. everything has to be in unison and rossi wont achieve that just yet until somewere about mid season.

But Rossi says it is hard to judge the potential of the Ducati because Stoner does not ride the machine to its limits. “It is very difficult to understand the level of the Ducati because Stoner doesn’t push at 100 per cent,” Rossi said. “Both (Honda’s Dani) Pedrosa and Lorenzo work a lot in practice on their bikes and they try to understand everything with long runs but Stoner makes just one lap, so it is difficult to understand the performance.”
just the point i am making. with the benefit of hindsight ala stoner winning races now, what will rossi have to say about this comment? bad to make such comments about another rider since the rider has shown that he doesnt need to make 40laps to understand the bike's needs. ducati have failed to harness the strength in stoner and its a major coup for honda to have signed him.

What is confusing you is Rossi's mode of English expression - what he is actually saying is that HE can't guage the Ducati's performance from practice because Stoner doesn't stay out turning enough laps for anybody else to judge whether what the Duc is doing is at the limit or not. He's not saying that Stoner can't be judging whether the bike is achieving its best - just that there isn't enough time for anybody else to see what it is doing before Stoner goes in to make adjustments.

Quite early in Stoner's time at Ducati, Suppo said that Stoner was the fastest he'd ever seen at telling whether an adjustment to set-up was better or worse and then coming in to try to improve on that. Rossi himself is very strategic in his practise sessions - he works on different sectors of the track in different laps, he and Burgess work on the telemetry and then late in the session - or in QP - he finally puts it all together. Sometimes that doesn't quite gel, and they obviously take the QP data as well and do the old 'pull out some magic in the warm-up' trick. As the old saying goes: 'Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time' - well, no longer every time, but pretty damn often.

you arent considering rossi"s statement in totality and in relation to the circumstances prevalent at that time. stoner was struggling with the bike while lorenzo and dani were getting the job done on it was convenient for rossi to adduce reasons for that when asked. it was a direct criticism made towards stoner's methods, though veiled and meant to sound rather plausible. i bet he wont say that again now if asked. no doubt about rossi's setup tactics like you have stated; unfortunately though, youth and skill seem to have upstaged old age and treachery in recent times judging by race wins this season and ultimately ofcos, the championship. rossi has his work cut out next season with a new bike/team and i really want to see him fighting for wins regularly on that ducati

I don't see this at all. He is currently riding with a serious shoulder injury that affects him differently at various tracks.

Anyone that doubts that Rossi will be at the pointy end of the procession at the beginning of next year does so at their own peril.

I just hope he and the rest of the grid doesn't get too depressed from looking at Mr Spies tail pipes all next year. (wishing, hopeing, big smile here)

Big T, there's a difference between being competitive and winning races. you can be competitive and always finish on the podium yet 15secs behind the winner. thats not gonna win any titles NOWADAYS. look at lorenzo's win/podium record...that speaks for itself. read my pieces, i have maintained that rossi will fight upfront but he wont win races just yet. on different days and on different circuits, one the aliens will always be faster than him. now thats because this guys would have attained a certain level of unity with their bikes that rossi will not reach until about mid season with a new bike and team. and you dont wanna get into how long i have been watching motogp. yes spies is my outside favorite next season. he's done magic on that tuned down tech 3 machine and currently even ahead of hayden on the factory duc. with a pole and front row starts this season, he's most likely to join the aliens next season.

new motivation, new bike, new points to be proven....i think he is going to be fast!!

He will have all he needs :)

i hope the faster guys hold off and shoot fastest as 2011 whatever really happens this will be a great year to have documented.

with Nicky finding his feet on this red devil (in Claudio voice, lwr) i can help but think he will not benefit from this as well, the question really is will this be better for him than colin. not that i am aspecting him to be a solid second in the championship run next year.

I'd like to know why Ducati did not give Stoner a chance to decide which motor to use at the start of this year. Based on his results on the old screamer, I'd say he was faster and more consistent on it. I'm suprised Rossi gets to choose between the two and Stoner did not.

At Valencia last year, both Stoner and Hayden tried the screamer and the big bang engine. Both said they preferred the big bang, and so Ducati decided to go forward with the big bang engine.