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Flori chats to Publicist and PR Mentor Odette Barry from Odette & Co about how to DIY your own PR as a small business owner.

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  • The 8 step framework you need to follow to DIY your own PR
  • Why less is more when it comes to sourcing your media outlets
  • How romance is the key to successful PR
  • The 5 main reasons why people say 'no'





Odette is a strategic storyteller with a passion for helping businesses share their own stories. Having studied Strategic Communications and working many sides of the media landscape, Odette has picked up a thing of two about PR. Her roles have spanned corporate communications and marketing and for the last three years on the agency side of the fence as a business owner of Odette and Co. Thanks to her understanding of both the media, but more broadly marketing and content marketing, Odette’s clients regularly appear across major titles and outlets including The Courier Mail, Sydney Morning Herald, Studio10, The Australian, The Morning Show, ABC TV and radio, Women’s Health, Mama Disrupt and Smart Company (to name a few). But what Odette enjoys most, is sharing what she has learned throughout her career with small business owners so that they can pitch their own story to media outlets.





Instagram: @odetteandco



Flori Pyke: [00:01:24] Hello and welcome to Episode 70. It's Flori here today. And today, I get to connect with Byron Bay-based publicist and PR mentor Odette Barry from Odette and Co. Hey, Odette. How are you?

Odette Barry: [00:01:38] Hi. I'm very good. Thank you so much for having me today.

Flori Pyke: [00:01:42] Oh, it's such a pleasure. Can I just say how much I love your name by the way?

Odette Barry: [00:01:46] Oh, thank you. I feel like it’s unfair to take praise for it. Obviously, my parents were the creative ones. [both laugh] But, the funniest thing that I love about my name is that I was talking to a natural-born French speaker and he was like uh it's like a very old grandma daggy name in French. So, for English-speaking people, we're like oohh that's exotic and then for French, they're like hmmm that's a bit of a daggy Grandma name. [laughs]

Flori Pyke: [00:02:14] Well, no one has to know that. Let's just keep that one under wraps because I think it's brilliant. [Odette says "Thank you so much."] No, my pleasure. So, how's it going? Now, look, obviously we've got lots to cover today but I thought before we did, I'd love for you to share with our listeners a little more around you and what you do over at Odette and Co.

Odette Barry: [00:02:36] Yes, sure. Well, thank you so much for the opportunity. So, a few years ago, I think it was almost four years ago now, I went out on my own as a freelancer and that very quickly turned into an agency without an awful lot of desire ambition or focus on that being what I wanted. But, being in Byron Bay, there's not a lot of amazing jobs. You know, it's a real backpacker’s town. It's where people go to holiday, less so to forge a career.But, as a result of that kind of snowball, I was so lucky to build a little digital marketing and PR agency off the back of working in communications for Westpac, TAFE New South Wales and Australian Physiotherapy Association. So, I kind of had a really broad non-niche background in communications and that has kind of evolved over the last few years to really niching down into PR more than any of the other services and really moreover teaching small business owners how to DIY their PR because I think you know through my time working in the media, working for women's fitness magazine and then working on the other side of pitching to journalists, I've seen how badly it can be done and also how beautifully it can be done and just like tiny little simple things can make such a difference. So these days, I take on a really tiny book of clients to keep my skin in the game. But, at the same time, largely, I teach small business owners how they pimp themselves out through media coverage.

Flori Pyke: [00:04:09] I love it. And in fact, I know that in one of our Mastermind's strategy days, we had a student of ours come along, Emma, who I know has been connecting with you. So, Emma Browning has a business that she is yet to officially launch but it is basically it's called Love Haidee and it's all-around clothing for girls who are in their tween years and I know that she connected with you and you came highly recommended to me.

Odette Barry: [00:04:41] Oh, she was an absolute sweetheart. It was a real joy to connect with her. And, I think I recently launched doing short power sessions to give people a quick intro into where they could hit on their PR outreach. You know, some creative ideas for activations, maybe some outlets and angles that might be helpful and the sorts of conversations that would be good to have around their brand because often I think people come into PR thinking you know this is an advertising medium where I will spray out my message and it will appear in the media as I serve it up to journalists by a media release and it just isn't my case. So, I really like to help business owners think about what the broader context that their brand operates in and what are the conversations around their brand that are going to be really meaningful to their end customer so that we can wedge them into the media on that avenue. So, we had some really fun conversations about young girls, empowerment and method of communication streams that would be helpful for her. So, I think that's going to be a lot of fun for her.

Flori Pyke: [00:05:45] Yeah. No, definitely. So, I mean, on that note, obviously, you know you were able to give Emma some awesome tips and I'd love for you to share with us and our listeners today some of the same. And I thought you know just to get everyone kind of on a level playing field maybe we could start by you just really simply explaining you know what PR is and how does it work? So, that we can all get on the same page here before we kind of kickstart with these great tips.



Odette Barry: [00:06:11] Yeah, awesome. OK. So, PR is public relations which is the act of building reputation and the way people think and feel about a brand. So, it's really about extending the reach of your brand through other mediums other than your own. So, you always have your core existing messaging platform like your social media or your email marketing and your website but they're very limited to who you have attracted to your tribe already. So, when it comes to building trust and reaching new audiences, public relations is where you would pitch your business to podcasts, TV, print, radio, magazines to get access to new audiences but also to leverage the trust of those amazing outlets that people have already invested with them. They already have a deep sense of you know understanding that outlet aligns with their values. So, when they see a brand appear in those pages or on that masthead, they quickly fast track the process of building trust and coming across to your brand and believing in you. So, it is a lot of fun for me. I think it can be a bit of a roller coaster ride, for all parties involved. Public relation's one of those things that I think for any small business that's embarking on it, they need to chuck on a bulletproof vest and really remember that some of the key attributes of a good PR, you know just hustling and selling your story but also having some resilience and grit when people push back against you. You're not going to get a yes every time you pitch your story. So, understanding that there’s a little bit of a dance involved and also most nos aren't a hard no. So, a lot of PR is shooting through really beautiful emails to journalists, producers, editors and then that's followed up with some phone calls. So, there's a whole bunch of work that I recommend getting done before you get to that point. But PR, not rocket science, it's a lot of phone calls and emails, and being resilient and a little bit patient.

Flori Pyke: [00:08:20] Yes. I love it. OK. And so, you spoke about you know chucking... I love the analogy of chucking the bulletproof vest on and then you spoke about you know being resilient and being patient. And I certainly know from our experience, especially when we started out, I did a bit of a PR drive for us and (deep breath). Let that say enough. [Odette laughs] Like it was just like oh my goodness. And, I'd love for you to talk about that a bit more around the mindset element when it comes to PR because I certainly found that it really does involve you putting yourself out there time and time again. And, I mean, I don't know what the statistics are around you know noes versus yes's but certainly you're going to get a lot more noes than yes's and [Odette agrees] yeah and it can get quite deflating. [Odette agrees] I found. No. Yeah, but what do we do here? Like how do we get through this, right? 



Odette Barry: [00:09:17] OK. So, I think knowledge is power and you can sort of push yourself forward with confidence when you understand the landscape that you're operating in and why you're getting noes. So, there are five main reasons why people get noes. The first one is the fact that the media landscape is constricting enormously. I think there was an IBISWorld report that said 4.7 percent shrinkage in the media landscape which means that there's less and less jobs, less and less staff on news desks, which means that they're just under the pump. They're completely under the pump. So, that's a really dire you know demonstration of the kind of sentiment that’s in there,that people are very stressed. They still have enormous deadlines. They still receive hundreds of pitches and media releases. One of the other main reasons is that you know you might get noes is also understanding that not every outlet is appropriate for your message. So, there was a statistic that said that 75 percent of journalists say that only a quarter of the pitches that they receive are appropriate to the outlet that they represent, which means that they're absolutely getting bombed with pitches and event invites and media releases for things that aren't appropriate which means that you have an enormous competitive advantage if you tailor your pitch. So, there's also a lot of ego in the media landscape and that's a really, it's a difficult thing to navigate. But there's some really easy things that you can understand. So, the ego comes into play when you know journos receive pitches for things that are clearly not for their outlet like of course you're going to be offended but also it's a very male-dominated industry and quite hierarchical and that means that there's kind of that sort of old school mindset where there's a bit of ego in there. But also, these journos and editors do know the power of what they do. They know that they can make and break careers and businesses through the coverage that they give. So, it does put a lot of power in their seat so you can get your foot in the door with some beautiful flattery with understanding what they're writing about and tailoring your pitches to specifically that individual's agenda not the broader outlet but to the individual at hand. So, my approach to PR is very much flipping it on its head, I would say. You know, back in the day you would pull together a broadcast media release and spray that out to every contact you could get your hands on. Whereas, for me, I like to hand-select a maximum of five targets and have a three-month romance with those people because if you forge a really meaningful connection with a journalist, that person is potentially going to serve your business for the rest of your lifetime in that business. Because you will have forged this, you know meaningful... You know how many dogs they've got. You know how many kids they've got. You know the last 10 articles that they've written and you're able to link your business to their narrative so they're going be inclined to cover you time and time again. And, the last thing that's really like comes into play is the fact that you know, nine times out of ten your pitch actually sucks because you don't understand the way to really get your foot in the door and it's not anything to do with people intentionally getting it wrong. It's just not understanding little cues, little etiquette and things that make journos' lives easier because we know they're completely under the pump. So, I think Australian culture also has massive tall poppy syndrome. And so, that's kind of the shifting mindset that we do need to be mindful of when we come into PR. Because I would wager particularly, I work with a lot of women, I work with some men but predominantly women business owners and women tend to fall onto the more humble side of the fence. [Flori agrees] I'm not the expert. I'm not the best in my category. You know they might believe in the thing that they're doing but they wouldn't use that sort of language and I can guarantee you that lukewarm language saying I'm good but not that great is not going to sell a story. So, when it comes to PR, we really do have to try and strip away that in doctrine mindset of being humble, playing small and shifting into you know what I believe in what I do, I get amazing results and feedback on my product or service. So, I am going to sing that from the treetops with confidence because that's the only way that you'll get coverage. And, I think the defining factor of success for small businesses is whether you are willing to hustle and put your name on the line as you know as a fallout if you don't succeed. So...

Flori Pyke: [00:14:09] Yeah. I mean, I'm just gonna jump in here. So, I really want to kind of amplify a message that you touched on which is you know when it comes to PR you know you really need to put the humble aside and put yourself in the driver's seat and really back yourself. And, I just want to say that you know I think that's when it comes to everything in life and business because especially you know this is something that makes us so different as other business schools is that we do so much around mindset because fundamentally you know if you don't believe you can do it, who else is going to back you? Right? And you know what's fascinating again is that this message keeps on coming up time and time again much like you're saying yourself. You know, it's not only in how you believe in yourself and how you talk to yourself but it's also the words that you're putting out there in how you convey yourself to the world. So, you know, it goes full circle and it's just so important I think to emphasise to our listeners that you know it's not only about how you're talking to yourself but it's also about how you're putting yourself out there that you've got to back yourself. [Odette agrees] So much truth to that. Now, Odette, we started by talking around the five main reasons that people said no. And then, you took us through a little bit around basically how to DIY your PR. So, you started to talk to us around your process and what you do and how you approach this and I'd love for you to build that framework out for us a little bit more just so that we can get clear on the exact steps that you recommend. So, you talked about having five targets and then pursuing something like a three-month romance and then really nailing the pitch. So, can you just really kind of elaborate on you know any additional steps that we need to consider? Or how this process works and a bit more detail?

Odette Barry: [00:15:54] Yes. All right. OK. So, I would say from start to finish there's probably 8 steps and there's a couple before what we just mentioned and a couple after. So, in summary, one is really understanding your audience and understanding what they consume because there's no point going to pitch to an outlet that's not going to have significant value to your business. And then, I would say from that, selecting just five outlets. So, and from those five... [Flori says "So, is that step one? understanding your audience?"] Number one, know your audience. Number two is selecting five outlets. Number three is nailing your key messages, making sure they're nice and tight.

Flori Pyke: [00:16:36] And can I just... Sorry. I mean, I ask more questions here because I'm very curious. But with respect to the outlets, do you have a bit of a designated approach to what kind of outlets you approach that you might have one that's digital, you might have one that is radio. I don't know, like do you have a bit of a framework here and approach that you recommend?

Odette Barry: [00:17:00] Yeah. So I try and go for a mixed medium approach and I would try and have a mix of some that are dedicated to lifting reputation and visibility and they're more going to be a positioning tool. And in that case, that might and this is going to be a long game. But that's when you're going for more of a print target or TV and that's going to be really that it might only be 1 percent of their audience that is actually relevant to you but your niche audience being that badge of authority that you've appeared in the Morning Show or whatever it is. That's the important little piece and then I would try and have you know 3 or so mid-tier which you know by mid-tier it might be more of where your audience goes to seek their news and education and understanding of the world and they're going to be where you'll start to get a little bit more movement. And then, I would have my more niche outlet which is really the lead driving activities. And by and large, that's podcasts and digital at the moment because they've very refined audiences where we see people are only subscribing to those outlets or industries because they're so interested. So, that's where we see a lot of action. But those platforms are really wonderful for also coupling with your bottom of funnel activities where you have a free download for listeners on a podcast or you'll have an email nurture sequence off the back of it and a retargeting program through your Facebook or Insta ads. So, for me I don't ever recommend doing PR as a standalone activity. PR is very much that top of funnel activity where you're getting awareness, getting new people, understanding what it is you do or knowing about your brand and then you're using a sequence of complementary communication channels to really drive the message home and get the action. So, we've got knowing your audience, finding your outlets and key messages. The other 4 determining your angles, romancing the relationship, tailoring an amazing pitch and then polishing up a really awesome media bio and media kit that's got your high res images of you, your product, some against a white deep etch background and some lifestyle images and then the last and final clincher is the follow up emails and phone calls. So, we can dig into any of them in a little more detail if you think that will be valuable. But that's kind of that eight steps in sequence.

Flori Pyke: [00:19:34] OK. OK. I love it. So, yes, definitely, I would love to understand a little bit more because obviously, you know the pitch and the angle is pretty fundamental. If you can't get that right... Yeah, it all comes together. So, talk to me more around that. How do you determine the right angle? And then, how do you approach the pitch?

Odette Barry: [00:20:00] OK. Amazing. So, when it comes to understanding what your angles are, by and large, when we look at the media we will think OK what is the function of the media? The media is there to educate, inspire and inform its public, so its consumers, its listeners about what's going on in the world and largely what we are most interested in as humans is other human stories. So, human interest is where our fire is lit. We've been sitting around campfires for eons telling stories and that's just what we love. And I freaking love stories. I love the power of storytelling. So, when I work with clients and teach them how to uncover their angles and pitch stories, I really try and hone in on their Why because it takes us away from the product's features and benefits which when we stop pitching on features and benefits, the journalists and editors and producers will come back and say here's the contact details for my advertising team. What we really want to do is come in with a beautiful emotive story that is going to you know peak their interests and get them a little bit curious about what it's about. So, I think there's a great saying from Simon Sinek about people don't buy products and products they buy, buy with their heart. So, that's what we really want to try and fire people up with. So, when we look at our businesses, we really want to start reflecting on what inspired us to start. Was there an aha moment where we were like ahhh you know I got made redundant and it forced me into creating baby products or you know that you had friction point or a frustration in your life that inspired you to come up with something to ease that friction. So, it's those kinds of stories that often peak the interests of journalists. So, when I think of products and services I really try and encourage businesses to bake storytelling into the DNA of their business. So, what can you do to ensure that you can speak broadly about the pains and the pleasures of your end customer and bring people into your business from that point? So, when it comes to looking for angles for a media outlet, the easiest bit of research you can do is read the magazine from back to front several times over and I would scroll through the headlines and have a look and think to myself what more could I add to this conversation? Or what do I disagree with about this conversation? So, that gives you an opportunity to come in with a counter argument which often a journalist or editor will want to be able to present a rounded argument to things so they will be interested in sharing other sides of the story. But, I would also try and look at what are like global trends and local or national trends that you can leverage. What are some big conversations that are happening or some really you know pop culture event or brands that are in market that you could say well, we're the new Canberra design or we're the new you know food delivery. we're the Uber of food delivery. You know just like coming up with creative ways that you can leverage existing things in market that have a lot of equity and familiarity and pull your brand into those conversation. When it comes to pulling out media angles, I would really recommend all business owners to pull out at a minimum five different angles for each outlet and remembering that it's not to just each outlet. It's to the individual within that outlet because then that means that you can pivot and present a couple of different options should the first one not land.

Flori Pyke: [00:23:55] And so, how do you do that? Like do you literally go and kind of e-stalk that person?

Odette Barry: [00:24:03] Absolutely. [both laugh] This is your permission to be the world's greatest creep. So, I really recommend that people as part of the process, they are snooping like an absolute demon online via LinkedIn. And, if you're stuck and not sure what outlets to approach and which journalists work there. Jump onto LinkedIn and type in food writer or interior writer or fashion journalist. Pop in those keywords because LinkedIn is the most highly optimised platform for job titles and then you can find some amazing people and then often they'll have their own freelance website because the industry is so fragmented. These people are not employees. Everyone’s a contractor or a freelancer and on their website often they will have all of their recent articles that they've published and they have contact details. So, you've suddenly found an absolute like honey pot of all of the information you need in order to reach out to that journalist but also a really clear idea of what they're interested in writing about.

Flori Pyke: [00:25:10] Yeah. OK. Got it. Love it. And before... I want to talk more around the pursuit of that three-month romance. What happens if you don't hear back and you know the whole kind of courting process that goes on? But before I do, you gave us some great insights around you know having kind of five different angles that you should look at pursuing for each of the outlets that you want to approach. What about the actual pitch itself? Is there like a structure that you follow here like intro, body? Talk to me more on that.



Odette Barry: [00:25:38] Yeah sure. So, I like to keep these pitch emails really brief. Journos are super, super busy so I reckon two or three paragraphs max. So, I'd like to open with a compliment and I like that compliment to be about a recent article that they've written and why it resonated for me. So, that means that they can see that we're interested in what they do. We're up to date on what they're writing about and that we're linking what they do to our Why. So, then we follow in with a second sentence that justifies that link. So, this really resonated with me because I've seen this time and time again with my customers or clients or in my day to day interactions. So, we then just put a really natural link to why, where, flattering the bejesus out of them. And then, in our second paragraph, I like to deepen that understanding with some examples of why you're a credible expert, why your product performed so well but then having that really well linked into a broader conversation. So, what's the big trend that you're leveraging having that clearly articulated in maximum one or two sentences and trust me, the process of skimming down your pitch into something really brief and succinct is something that requires brutal editing. You know you really do have to work really hard at refining your message here and then the last paragraph I like to have a really clear call to action like what's your ask. There is no point having sent this amazing pitch email but not made it really clear what you're willing to do. So, if you're offering an opinion editorial piece of content that's you writing an article which takes a task off their to-do list, make that very clear. If you're available for interview or you would like to invite them to tour your facility or try your spa treatment or you'd like to send some product to them, make that really clear in that last paragraph. And I also like to have two or three bullet point alternative angles to the initial one that I explained that are written like a headline that would give them just a couple more ideas in case that initial one didn't land. And that's it. Like I know that sounds really simple, though, just this little e-mail but it takes a lot of work to get to that point because you have to thoroughly research what it is they're about and how you align. You have to have your key messages completely buttoned up because you are using them through that communication. It might also be nice to have links to any blogs that you've written elsewhere so that they can see your capability. So, just having a little hyperlink in there and you can also pop a link to any high res images because then they could potentially know, yup I'm gonna be able to run this with ease.

Flori Pyke: [00:28:33] Yeah. Love it. OK. That's great. And so, going back now to the pursuit of the three-month romance, right? [both laugh] OK. How do we do this? Like what kind of process do you pursue if you send that email and you get nothing back? Like how do you do this?

Odette Barry: [00:28:55] So, before you even send that email, I would be working all of the angles that I can find to make personal contact with this individual. So, the one thing that I would say is an absolute no-no is adding them if they have a private Instagram. In that case, I'll just leave it until we have forged a bit of a connection. All other mediums are on the table. So, finding them on LinkedIn and sending and I think you've got 250 characters on that LinkedIn DM message. Tailor it. Do not waste that real estate. So, use that to say "Hey Pen, I know you write about health and fitness. My brand is in the same space and you know I really would love to connect with you for future opportunities." You know it doesn't need to be super detailed but at least acknowledging who they are and what it is you do. And then, I would be going through... So, if it's a digital outlet, using all touch points to complement them. So, if the article is published to that outlet's Facebook page, being in the comments section on that article when it's pumped out and say "wow this really resonated with me. Great article Penny." You know and so they're starting to see that this name is appearing because we know that these journalists, if they step away from their inbox when they're on deadline, their inbox is going to mount up to having 50 or 100 new emails in their inbox. So, we want to be a familiar entity by the time we get to their inbox for the first time. So, when we talk about that romance it's very much about becoming familiar. I think a really great way to become familiar is also to share their articles on your own platforms and tag them. So, you might share one of their articles on LinkedIn and say you know "Great article Penny. Big shout out to all the people that were featured in this. It was a really valuable read for me and I've shared it out by my email database this month." Something like that that you're already showing them that you're going to be a big fan and advocate into the future and that you're also going to help amplify their message. So, lots of those little moments are what I like to see businesses doing in the early stages of their romance. We certainly don't want to get to the first date and ask for a marriage. Do we? We're going to get a little bit taken aback. So then, by the time it gets to that first really strategic touch point, it's when we're sending that pitch email. Or, it might be that we're reaching out to them and we're inviting them to experience a thing or catch up for coffee.

Flori Pyke: [00:31:36] OK. Got it. No. That's really great. And then, if you... I guess what happens if it's like crickets? You send that e-mail and there's nothing. I mean, I imagine... [Odette says "This is like the most common outcome ever."] Yeah. I'm like 'cause I feel like I certainly got a lot of crickets, granted, I probably wasn't as effective or efficient as a stalker as I should have been from what great tips you've shared. But, what do you do then?



Odette Barry: [00:32:05] Yeah. Look. So, number one, you've already put your bulletproof vest on so you’re not affected when they may not reply and you understand the context that they operate in. So, you're like OK cool. It's not me, it's you.

Flori Pyke: [00:32:19] It's not me, it's you. Even though I just flirted with you for the last God knows how long and you've just totally left me here high and dry. [Odette laughs]

Odette Barry: [00:32:30] It's fine. I don't mind. So, we're putting the Kleenex tissues to the side and we're just going back in. And, it's our opportunity to number one, I like to kind of act as though they sawit and they weren't interested. I like to hedge my bets so I come back in and I have more angles up my sleeve in case they did read it and they hated it. So, at that point, I would circle back with a really even briefer email and just say "Hey Penny, I know you're unbelievably busy and under the pump. I'm circling back because I think this is a really well-aligned opportunity. Love that other article that you just wrote. If none of the other ideas landed for you here's a couple of other suggestions." And again, bullet points. So, it's super simple for them to read and quickly get an idea of what you're about and you're still very likely get crickets. So, I spoke to Josie Tutty who is one of the editors or was one of the editors for Mumbrella which is an industry publication for marketing and media and I was like OK Jo, what's the secret formula from your perspective? And she said that she really has a feeling that older journos are much more open to phone calls and younger journos are very against them. You know younger generations, in general, are terrified of telephones. It's like you know they have to hold, touch, feel, play with it but with a phone call… [Flori says "I was gonna say I like they're terrified and yet they like live with it in their hands 24/7. But that's another story."] Just don't ring me. [laughs] But actually, like one of my girlfriends, Penny Carroll, writes for Women's Health and she says do not ever call me, ever. And like a lot of journos will have visible on any public profiles that they absolutely do not accept phone calls in which case, just don't do it. [both laughs] But Josie, her idea was that send one email, your initial pitch email. Wait one week. Send your follow up email. Wait two days and then do a follow up phone call if you are brave. So, I, personally, am an enormous fan of the phone call. Like I would say that nine times out of ten I can get a story across the line on a phone call as opposed to an email. But I have to send that series of emails first to give the journalists an opportunity to read and digest whilst we’re on the phone, which is why you want that email to be so brief and succinct.

Flori Pyke: [00:34:58] Yeah, because in like the context they can relate to whilst you're on the phone.

Odette Barry: [00:35:04] Totally and I like to use that phone call as well A) I'm pivoting like a demon to make sure I can get the story across the line. So, I've got all my angles, you know 10 angles if I need to, so that if they're like we ran that story yesterday about that. Cool what about this and then I mean we've covered that 17 times. You're like oh that's embarrassing, how about this? You know and you just keep going and you know if they're like you know what Odette, calm your farm it’s not going to run this time.That's when I use that opportunity to say OK cool, I want to know why this story isn't of interest to you? What could I do to make this of interest you? And what are you covering right now? So that I can be across these sort of things. So, I use that conversation to suck the intel out so that next time I pitch I'm definitely gonna get it right. And I'm also asking them how many dogs they've got or how their dog is because I've been following them on Instagram. You know using that time to forge a beautiful relationship. So, like a no is not a hard no in my book until I get hung up on. [laughs] [Flori says "Good. I love it. Very persistent. Well, you need to be, right?"] You really do like you know if you think about the volume of emails they receive daily like that would give me hives.When I worked for Women's Fitness, I probably wouldn't have been up that high but we would have got at least 20 pitches a day on top of all your back and forth with experts that you were working with and like the rest of the team and that was, you know we still had to produce five plus articles every day. So...

Flori Pyke: [00:36:40] Yeah. It's a lot. [Odette says "Yeah, hectic."] Yeah, yeah, definitely. All right. Awesome. Well, thank you. Those have been some really great tips. I love how descriptive you've been. I think there's been so much great for us to take away in terms of the wealth of knowledge that you've shared because yeah it's hard to get this right. And there's certainly a lot in there that you've shared that I certainly have never thought of doing, to be honest. And I, you know what I really particularly like, that less is more. Like choose you know just five people but make sure that those five people are working for the right media outlets and then go from there. I think for me, it really cuts through the overwhelm because I know yeah when I kind of tackled the whole PR angle it would've been like three years ago now. Oh my God. I had like Excel sheets of people and it was just exactly like you said you know, just blanket e-mails and don't get me wrong, we eventually did get some stories and... [Odette says “Yeah you got some great stories out of that.You should be really proud of that."] Well, thanks. It's also was like me banging my head against the wall.

Odette Barry: [00:37:50] Yeah. I find like you know like instead of having enormous databases of intel, I like to think of having more enormous databases of intel about your industry and about that outlet so that you've got like deep fact sheets. What are all the statistics around your product or service offering? What are all the conversations that are happening? What are all of the usage trends or anything like that? So, that's where I would invest that energy instead of the list building and pummelling emails.

Flori Pyke: [00:38:23] Yeah. No. And, like I said, I just love that more streamlined less is more but really focused approach. It just cuts through the overwhelm in a big way and gets you more focused on making sure that you get results because if you've only got to talk to five people, you know.

Odette Barry: [00:38:41] Totally. And I think also, like the beautiful part of that is really that it's not going to just be this opportunity that the work serves you for. It's going to be you know year on year, that'll keep circling back when a new topic comes out and they'll be very receptive because you're so thoughtful and engaged with who they were.

Flori Pyke: [00:39:02] Yeah. No, I really love it. OK. So, Odette, in terms of finding out a little bit more about you and all that you do. Can you share with us what are your hyperlinks, please?

Odette Barry: [00:39:15] Yeah sure. So, you can jump onto my website which is odetteandco dot com dot au. And, there's a little pop up on there for an email download for my three simple tricks for DIY-ing your PR. So, a couple of things that we chatted about today and a few others. Otherwise, jump onto my Instagram which is odetteandco. All one word.

Flori Pyke: [00:39:35] Oh, I love it. OK. Now, for our listeners, make sure to get your hands on the show notes and to learn more about Odette, you can head over to our website at And Odette, drumroll, putting you on the line. [both laugh] The parting thought of today. I would love for you to share with our listeners a bit of a parting thought based on business, what we've discussed, anything that you think is a great gold nugget for our listeners.

Odette Barry: [00:40:07] Well, my favourite quote aligns with someone that I also deeply respect in the industry and a brand that has been performing very well for eons.And, it is just f***ing do it. I think it is the golden nugget for everything that we do. And you know, there's moments with PR where we feel stuck, we feel afraid and I think just do it. Just have a crack.

Flori Pyke: [00:40:30] Yeah, which is the same like PR business life again. So true. And, it's so simple. Yup. Love it. [both laugh]. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the podcast.

Odette Barry: [00:40:44] Oh, thank you so much.

Flori Pyke: [00:40:45] All right. All right ladies, that is a wrap. And as always, remember to elevate your business game.



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