Worrisome Side Effects
4-Fluoroamphetamine, Methoxetamine, 2C-T-21, Cannabis & Etizolam
by Xorkoth
Citation:   Xorkoth. "Worrisome Side Effects: An Experience with 4-Fluoroamphetamine, Methoxetamine, 2C-T-21, Cannabis & Etizolam (exp102835)". Erowid.org. May 12, 2014. erowid.org/exp/102835

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T+ 0:00
120 mg oral 2-Fluoroamphetamine (powder / crystals)
  T+ 0:35 30 mg rectal 2-Fluoroamphetamine (powder / crystals)
  T+ 1:35 15 mg insufflated 2-Fluoroamphetamine (powder / crystals)
  T+ 1:35 3 mg insufflated 2C-T-21 (powder / crystals)
  T+ 4:50 15 mg insufflated Methoxetamine (powder / crystals)
  T+ 5:10 35 mg oral Methoxetamine (powder / crystals)
  T+ 5:15   mg insufflated Methoxetamine (powder / crystals)
  T+ 7:30 2 mg oral Etizolam (pill / tablet)
  T+ 0:00   repeated smoked Cannabis (plant material)


Last night I had an experience I thought I should communicate, as it resulted in a negative interaction that I'd like to report for the sake of anyone else thinking about this combination. Yesterday I received my order of psychedelic experimentation materials, which, among other things, included 4-FA and MXE. I had been looking forward to the 4-FA for a while, as it's been a while since I did a euphoric stimulant. So at 6:40pm, I decided to take some of it. I ingested 120mg orally and began waiting for it to take effect by reading through posts and participating in some conversations, and telling my buddies about it in the wonderful PD Social thread that I started years ago (and it brings me great joy that it still exists!).

At about 15 minutes in, 6:55, I began to feel the beginnings of a clean, smooth stimulation, and my mood improved. I had been putting off cleaning my kitchen for a while, and I took the opportunity to do the dishes, clean the counters and stove top, and sweep/mop the floor (it's all hardwood). I accomplished this task quite quickly, leading to me wonder why I had been putting it off. At 7:15, T+0:35, I ingested 30mg more using the rectal route. The light, good, euphoric feelings steadily built, and after about 10 more minutes they began building more rapidly. So far there was no overstimulation nor any other negative side effects. At about 7:30, T+0:50, the euphoria really clicked into place. I felt wonderful, my body felt very light, and I felt talkative and joyful. I continued to post on forums, and I began to notice that I had a wonderful light feeling placed in the center of my head, and the euphoria, strangely, seemed to emanate from there. This was an odd feeling as usually euphoria seems to be centered in my chest, coming from my heart, rather than my head. It was an odd feeling, but pleasant. It made me feel like my head was beginning to float, completely weightless. At this point I also turned on some Radiohead, first In Rainbows. At 8:15 (T+1:35), I decided to snort about 15mg more of 4-FA. It burned quite sharply but the burn faded within minutes. I also snorted ~3mg of 2C-T-21, as that compounds produces a very nice euphoria of its own as well as a wonderful body high. The T-21 did seem to increase all of the positives slightly. It burned less but for much longer. My heart had started to beat pretty heavily, not too rapidly but every beat felt like a powerful, echoing and vibrating *THUD* in my chest. It didn't really worry me but it wasn't ideal. The T-21 perhaps increased this slightly but not substantially... 2C-T-21 really doesn't make me feel particularly stimulated.

I continued my activities, participating on forums, reading trip reports, taking notes for this experience, and listening to music. I also smoked hits of cannabis periodically, about every 45 minutes. The cannabis made the whole thing a bit smoother, increased euphoria and added a mental aspect, not different from regular cannabis effects but it was a nice addition. I listened to more Radiohead albums first, once In Rainbows was done, I put on Amnesiac, then Hail to the Thief, then Ok Computer. I greatly enjoyed them all, music appreciation was absolutely enhanced, and I was listening through a really nice set of headphones. I enjoyed the euphoria greatly, and got into some private conversations with friends. I almost called my mom and dad, but decided not to because I was quite high and although I wanted to talk to them and don't think I would have had trouble, it was likely they would want to talk about some pretty heavy stuff that's been going on and I didn't want to do that. I became so euphoric that I was rolling my eyes back in my head and overcome with joyful thoughts, I started making silly posts to the effect of 'Hey guys, serious guys, I'm feeling SO AWESOME right now, this is great'.

By the time 11:30pm rolled around (T+4:50), I was finally starting to drop off a little bit. The euphoria had reduced, though I wasn't feeling that 'lossy' feeling you get when MDMA or amphetamines fall away. I noticed the faint beginnings of a headache, focused in that same exact spot in the center of my head that the euphoria was centered in. This was not ideal but I barely noticed it and it didn't impact my enjoyment of the experience. I had been listening to Pink Floyd albums which I enjoyed very much, Wish You Were Here and then, at this moment, Dark Side of the Moon. It ended, and I decided to put on Shpongle's Nothing Lasts... But Nothing Is Lost. As it got going, I was reminded of my last methoxetamine journey which I wrote a trip report on, where I reached the oneness in a most shocking and profound way. This got me thinking about MXE. I had allowed the possibility of ending my experience tonight with a moderate dose of MXE. A friend had told me he didn't think it would be a good idea to combine a serotonergic substance, especially an amphetamine, with MXE. Some other friends offered that they had combined MXE with MDMA on the come-down, and the original friend said that it might be okay as long as I wasn't stacking peaks, which was never my intention. So I decided to give it a try, particularly since I was beginning to come down more and had some slight physical discomfort (usual comedown stuff, a feeling of loss of euphoria, a bit of soreness, a bit of letdown, and in this case, a slowly growing headache - the headache was still very minor though).

I began by snorting 15mg of MXE. I hadn't snorted it before, only taken it orally and rectally, but my reason was that I heard snorting it can produce a little more a recreational effect, plus it takes effect slightly sooner. So I insufflated the 15mg, and within 5 minutes I felt a small shift in energy, I felt less 'up', a little smoother physically and mentally, and that looseness of body and mind that dissociatives produce. I continued listening to Shpongle, and I noticed that my appreciation for that sort of music increased (this particular album is the one I usually listen to on MXE experiences, it seems to absolutely built for the experience). So after about 20 minutes, I made the decision to go ahead and take a full dose, not as high as my breakthrough experience but a good upper mid-level dose so I could end my experience with a dissociative journey. I weighed out 35mg more and ate it. Then I gathered my computer, headphones, marijuana, bag of MXE, a glass of water, and my e-cigarette and went upstairs, my walking only slightly disturbed by the light MXE effect, but that effect was growing by the minute.

Once I got upstairs, I laid in bed and turned the lights off. I packed a hit into my bowl, restarted the CD, and laid down with my eyes closed. I removed all but one pillow, because I find when trying to get CEVs, it helps, for whatever reason, so lay flat on my back and have my eyes (though they're closed), pointing straight up in the air, perpendicular to the angle my body is laying at. For whatever reason, this brings on the best CEVs. I started listening to the music, but after 5 minutes I realized I wasn't high enough and I felt that my dose was not going to quite get me there. So I dipped into the bag with my pinkie and snorted 2 more doses, which I estimate at 10mg each based on previous measurements with the 'fingertip method'. [Erowid Note: Two samples of powder (even of the same chemical) with equivalent volumes won't necessarily weigh the same. For this reason, eyeballing is an inaccurate and potentially dangerous method of measuring, particularly for substances that are active in very small amounts. See related article]

I also got up to walk downstairs and pee in the bathrooms. I noticed as I walked down the stairs that my equilibrium was quite off by now, and walking felt really crazy. I always find it odd that no matter how high I have been on MXE, I can manage to walk and do things without messing up. I went to pee and I had an odd sensation where as I tried to go, I could feel that strange carrier wave feeling that often leads up to physical movement happening on ketamine and MXE, and only when the carrier wave crested did the urine emerge. However I still felt strangely non-dissociated. It was odd, my vision was all crazy and I felt very off, but I was much more cognizant than I usually am on that level of MXE. This would maintain throughout the experience. Done relieving myself, I walked out and realized my cats needed more food so I gave them some. Then I walked upstairs to begin my journey, the new doses already beginning to make the stairs more difficult. I got into bed, smoked the big hit of cannabis I had prepared, and restarted the Shpongle CD one more time, closed my eyes, and began my journey.

It started out slow, but as about 5 minutes went by I began to feel my body stretching, sliding and traveling somewhere. The now familiar CEVs began to emerge. I also noticed that I had a much stronger headache now. It was an odd feeling though; that center spot where the euphoria and headache had both been centered that I mentioned before was still the focus of the headache. However, now it felt like there was a very thin, flat plane that was emitting pain. It passed through that center point in the head, and extended out in all directions to form a disk of pain that went from the bump on the back of my head, through the point, and across to my eyes. No other part of my head hurt, but this flat disk hurt significantly. However it was so thin that the total amount of pain was not very great. But it felt weird, and I was aware of it for the entire experience. It felt kind of wrong, it felt like my head was being bisected by a very well-defined area. It felt kind of like I would imagine a migraine to feel, but I've never had one of those, and as I said it wasn't too painful. But it felt wrong and strange and it gave me a bit of apprehension.

Meanwhile, the trip was increasing. My thought process began to deviate substantially from the norm, but it was different from my other MXE experiences. Whereas usually on MXE I get unusual thoughts that make sense at the time and feel quite profound, this time my thought process was almost just like a crazy person, very childlike as well. I was repeating words and saying stuff to myself like 'let's go here, yes, lalalala, here is the good place, oh wait, no I guess here, blahblahblah' (verbatim for one of the thoughts I remember). The trip seemed a lot less otherworldly than usual, and I was relative detached from it. It felt silly and crazy, like I felt extremely altered but in a chaotic way that didn't seem to have any relevance to anything. Usually on MXE, the thoughts make a lot of sense at the time and I feel in awe afterwards. This time I just felt insane. Also the physical sensations were much less and the visuals were much less rich. Instead of everything being complex fractals and shapes at many layers, this time it was simple shapes, and nothing in the background, and no color. Throughout the experience, the weird headache increased and it was quite distracting. The music was altered significantly; when I do MXE or ketamine and listen to music, when it gets really strong I hear it repeat, skip, flange, and otherwise be dramatically altered, it sounds totally different than normal. It did the same thing this time but the change was of a different sort. It sounded very disjointed. The whole experience was less coherent and engaging; at some point in the middle of the album, I got up to urinate. Walking downstairs was difficult but certainly doable. When I got up my head started hurting more as the blood redistributed in my body. The headache was beginning to worry me, I felt that it was starting to affect my vision slightly though it was hard to tell because of the MXE.

I got back upstairs and laid back down... the trip began to get more and more random and faded, I do not have a very clear memory of what exactly happened, unlike with my last trip, the one I wrote a trip report about, where I remember it all in great detail. Ketamine makes me forget a lot, but the reason I actually prefer MXE is because the place it brings you to is very similar but I remember it super well and the whole thing is more vivid and colorful. The CD seemed to drag on and on, and by the end I actually just wished it would end, though I was still going to be highly intoxicated at the end and I knew I probably wouldn't have been able to really do anything but lay there and try to sleep. Sure enough, the CD ended and I opened my eyes and shut off the computer. My reality was still very altered, and I had a weird, slightly bad feeling in my body. My head still hurt significantly. So I went downstairs and took 800mg of ibuprofen, and also 2mg of etizolam to try to relax me and help me sleep, and also because my heart was still thudding heavily in my chest, and by now it was starting to make me feel concerned. I noticed I was getting out of breath really easily, and sometimes my heavy heart beats would be accompanied by slight pain in my chest and shoulders, and certainly in my head.

I came back upstairs and laid down and tried to work through the MXE insomnia. I can never sleep for a couple of hours after MXE, so I laid there in confusion and with a headache that wouldn't quit. AT some point I drifted off, and I woke up at 9:00am. My headache was gone (thank goodness!), but I felt pretty crummy. I had been planning on going to church (I began singing in a local church choir recently), but I decided to stay home. I laid in bed and watched some episodes of good shows I had been wanting to catch up on, and snuggled with my kitties. Eventually I got up to to the bathroom, and I realized that my body felt incredibly weak, and my vision was weird; it looked like whatever I was looking at for more than a couple of seconds was slowly zooming out and lightly morphing. And most concerning, I was very easily getting HUGE head rushes that would cause my vision to sparkle and white out. If I stood up quickly it happened the strongest, but it was even happening if I turned my head too quickly, or bent down to pick something up. The weakness in my muscles was also extreme. I was out of breath almost immediately just upon standing up, and lifting a heavy pot containing some leftovers of a meal I had made caused me to become tired and after I put it down, my chest, back and shoulder muscles cramped up quite painfully.

I went out eventually to pick up some poppy seeds to make poppy seed tea, which I wasn't going to do today originally but I felt so alarmingly crappy that I went for it anyway. It made me feel substantially better, but the visual distortions continued throughout the day, even persisting lightly now (at 5:35pm, approximately 18 hours after first taking MXE). The weakness has also persisted, though it's better, and I haven't had a head rush in a couple of hours. I plan to sleep a full night tonight and restore myself.

Overall, I feel that the MXE reacted badly with the 4-FA, as my friend had suggested. I also realized that I have been overdoing it; I had 2C-I three days ago, 2C-T-21 two days ago, and 4-FA + MXE and traces of 2C-T-21 yesterday. I suppose I have been excited to get back into this world, but even though I used to trip 3 days in a row frequently in years past, I am a bit older now and I have realized that I can't go that hard anymore. And, of course, I shouldn't; I never should have. This experience has been a lesson to me to curb my enthusiasm somewhat and allow more time between drug experiences, and I wanted to share the story in case anyone else was thinking of trying to combine MXE with 4-FA. I feel confident the combination was the main problem, and since MXE is so new, I think it's important to report any adverse reactions or combinations.

I hope you enjoyed this report. Stay safe, and be sure to appreciate the world we live in these days, where there are literally hundreds of new psychedelic substances we have available to us to explore consciousness. We even have a new dissociative that is comparable to ketamine, which I personally even prefer to ketamine. If we all stay smart and safe, we should be able to continue to have all of these wonders available to us in the future.

Exp Year: 2014ExpID: 102835
Gender: Male 
Age at time of experience: 30 
Published: May 12, 2014Views: 29,243
4-Fluoroamphetamine (276), Methoxetamine (527), 2C-T-21 (290), Cannabis (1), Etizolam (568) : Alone (16), Hangover / Days After (46), Music Discussion (22), Difficult Experiences (5), Combinations (3), General (1)

