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12:10 AM
I'm so excited. I just realized something. My nephew's old enough to go trick or treating now and my sisters got him on Halloween this year. I am totally going to go rock that and be the creepy uncle reliving my childhood favorite holiday. I have an excuse now.
in The Nineteenth Byte on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 2 mins ago, by Dennis
> This site is for programming contests and challenges. Please get your question closed on Stack Overflow instead.
12:25 AM
@Magisch nice work!
Morning all
I have to document an XML schema. I always have trouble with this. Do you guys have any suggestions on a good format / favorite way to present it?
My XML documentation always ends up just being a mess of nested bullet lists.
Better than a mess of nested angle brackets.
Yeah that's true.
The other difficulty is my target is power users, not programmers. So things like xsddoc always end up looking a little too technical.
1:25 AM
30 second dance party GO!
Well done
1 hour later…
2:49 AM
@JasonC I rather like presenting it as JSON
...but failing that, XML seems to lend itself well to nested boxes illustrating example data.
3:14 AM
6 messages moved to Chimney
3:32 AM
XML documentation does lend itself well to homes for birds.
... that's a nested box, in case nobody gets it >.>
/me goes back to bed.
3:52 AM
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4:14 AM
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4:34 AM
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4:48 AM
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5:29 AM
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5:43 AM
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5:54 AM
sd 11k
6:24 AM
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6:58 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: How to deal with sexual advances from students by Jacky on academia.stackexchange.com
sd k
@SmokeDetector and rude, including comments
7:37 AM
(not sure the site is blacklisted)
> Url in title
Title - Position 1-29: http://brooklynsoriginal.com
7:48 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to recover data after rm -rf in Mac by Max A. Pettit on superuser.com
8:09 AM
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8:35 AM
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sd 4k
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8:51 AM
Hmm, smokey .. assume good faith?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer, pattern-matching website in answer: wget (or curl) the entire contents of a forum thread? by Steve Chatwin on superuser.com
9:26 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: How to move data from HTC to iPhone 7? by Krystal Alex on android.stackexchange.com (@qwer)
assume good faith?
9:49 AM
@rene is this a new command? ;)
I dunno but it seems to be parsed by ShadowWizard
Although the response could be better ;)
418 I'm a teapot
@rene bloom
the new rene commands don't seem to be working
@Magisch he's already in full bloom, probably error messages are turned off.
@rene giveFriendshipPellets=>@ShadowWizard
yep, doesn't seem to work.
10:03 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Redirection old domain with cat= in url redirect me to uncategorized page by saadi on wordpress.stackexchange.com
@Derpy syntax error in operator or whatever you imagined would need to happen there
@Derpy nah, just slow. Maybe @rene needs a CPU upgrade?
@Magisch unauthorized, needs credit card first
@ShadowWizard we don't want to overheat a flower
@rene bloom(PayPal('shadow@shadowwizard.com', 1000));
domain not found, user not found, paypal not found, credits too low, just back-off ...
10:09 AM
@rene so stronger coolant is needed as well!
sd k
10:20 AM
uh oh, I'm afraid someone cast a Sleep spell here.... trying to figure who did this
!!/blame whoever cast Sleep spell
@ShadowWizard It's Derpy's fault.
I knew it!
@ShadowWizard Between me and Smokey, who is the Unicorn and who is the Pegasi?
@rene will bloom for cash
@Derpy hard to tell, I suspect you switch roles sometimes
@Magisch let's see...
@rene bloom(Cash(50000));
Sorry for the delay!
Different place, about half are different socks. :D
11:02 AM
I was looking for a solution to a problem I am having with ng-options in angularJS
(Basically - I need to have it NOT add an empty value when the model isn't yet initialized but instead select the first option - I can't initialize the model because the options come out of a promise and then are filtered by a | operator in the ng-options)
I found something that matches my requirement, a custom directive on github.
this is the second line of the comments in the directive:
@ShadowWizard you do know white socks are not fashionable since 1985-1986 right?
> // service to initialize your model. This "feature" is great for SPA, [censored] for CMS
^ would you say it is a sign, @ShadowWizard? The directive was written to be great for me?
I knew it! See, everypony? Finally we have proof!
Look! @rene replied to me instead of @ShadowWizard!
It is all as we always suspected!
The flower is a sock!
It has been just a familiar summoned by Shadow all along!
@Derpy LOL, sure it is! :D
That said, think I had this same problem, found a solution without a new directive.
@rene nobody ever told me.... :(
finally understands why everyone mocked me as a teenager ;)
@Derpy of course, but @Bart's sock
Aug 9 '15 at 9:33, by rene
@Bart Am I your sock?
11:30 AM
You really want me to link up the "Socks are Magic" remade version of the MLP opening?
Yes please! :)
12:01 PM
I got a dv here but except that it doesn't contain enough Linq I can't see what might be wrong. Strangely enough I think the accepted answer seems wrong as I have to assume their TAX property is of a type string. Do I miss something obvious?
Seems fine to me @rene
OK, thx
I posted something on codereview
@Magisch many users do
I rarely do
12:06 PM
If you really like to live on the edge, try posting a question on Stack Overflow. For starters I would try one about UB in C++....
That was the perfect storm of bad question yet somehow it was oddly well recieved.
1) No idea what I was doing
2) mysterious poorly documented constraints (XY problem)
3) using a dangerous and unrecommended technique
@rene well.... for one, this code might make some programmers cringe: sum = sum + num;
Why not sum += num;?
Not deserving downvote, but who knows... maybe there are those fanatic enough to do that.
@ShadowWizard I'd wager on account of the fact that OP is a noob
Also, no real need to add extra sum variable.
and noobs don't often know about these
12:12 PM
@Magisch of course, but I'm talking about @rene's answer, and he's not a n00b. ;)
But consider who rene wrote the answer for
Sometimes industry standard in shortcuts is not appropiate when you're dealing with complete beginners
Anyway, another way to achieve same goal:
RModel.TAX = RegionalEarn.ToList().ConvertAll(item => {
    int num;
    return Int32.TryParse(item.Split('=')[1], out num) ? num : 0;
Less readable, but more elegant. ;)
@ShadowWizard sure, that could be it.
If you want upvotes, use the elegant ways.... though sometimes they're not the best.
@ShadowWizard I already told that my answers lacks any LINQ, knowing that LINQ is the jQuery of c#
so, sure -1 for that
12:19 PM
@ShadowWizard you'd probably scare the f*ck out of a beginner though. If they don't know string vs int, then LINQ isn't going to make them happy.
@Bart they'll be happy with anything that solves their problem, and there's always the (slim) chance they'll learn how to use the scary way and adapt it. :)
"there's always the (slim) chance they'll learn" ... ha ... hahahaha ... HAHAHAHAHAHA
@rene and what's wrong with either of those? I'm not saying to convert int x = 1 + 1; to LINQ, but generally speaking, it does make programming lot easier.
@Bart lol, I'm afraid you're correct.... :D
@ShadowWizard sure
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@JasonC :D that man needs a hug
Around 1:02 I lost it.
The look on his face, the microwave shot.
Oh my god.
this is off-topic, right: meta.stackexchange.com/q/284791/158100 ?
Or am I missing modern/recent stuff
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12:45 PM
@JasonC note to self ... looking up some info ... that man doesn't need a hug ... never Google stuff, ever.
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1:14 PM
So the Firefox survey now include a "are you a brony" question?
(and an unicorn in the logo)
What are they planning? Bringing back FirePony?
bronies are an important demographic group yo
my girlfriend has been obsessed with MLP but I can't understand what she sees in it
The ones that turn into jailbait are weirdly hot.
I forget what they're called.
I'm so far from into that stuff that I can't comment
That just looks like some furry stuff
1:24 PM
Pretty much.
Twisted to be family friendly.
I'm not planning on having kids, but methinks this "family friendly" stuff is grossly exaggerated
I saw some disturbing stuff when I was 7, and yet it didn't traumatize me
Oh I know
Then you get people who are like "Oh please dont curse in front of my kids that would be ever so beastly"
Meanwhile their 11 or 12 year old has probably seen unspeakable things on the net' years ago
1:26 PM
I grew up watching like, Nightmare on Elm Street and Hellraiser and stuff when I was 5.
No it's retarded.
It's why people ask questions on Lifehacks now. But whatever we can only rehash the same old "kids these days" convo talking about it here.
I've probably heard at least 100k different curse word variations by now yet you don't see me running around @ work cursing everybody out.
I hold onto the hope that generational behaviors alternate and hopefully a few generations down the line kids will just rebel and be normal people again.
what bothers me more is the smartphone revolution
There has to be a bounce back from that at some point
There will be.
As soon as a generation of kids gets pissed off that their parents spent more time looking at their phones than paying attention to them, it'll be fine.
I know the hypocrisy in this since I'm both a software dev and a gamer, but spending literally 99% of your waking time staring at various forms of screen can't be healthy
1:32 PM
It'll be a nice rebirth of punk.
I was the adult supervisor for a date my cousin had once (her parents couldn't make it and the restaurant wouldn't let them in unless an adult was accompanying)
I don't have anything against spending all one's time staring at a screen, as long as you're like, in a place that isn't surrounded by reality. Like, crossing the street.
they spent like 5% eating, 2% talking and 93% texting each other.
While sitting across from one another
Yeah lol. Well...
They did have a grown up spying on them, haha.
I'm the least likely guy to care in a 500 mile radius
1:34 PM
I bet they were talking so much smack on you.
most likely
I was enjoying a nice fantasy book and nice dinner paid for by her parents, so there's worse deals out there.
Oh no debate, that's a great gig.
My big social problem that I rant about is all these kids growing up communicating with eachother either anonymously, or with no body language feedback. Then when they have to interact with real people, they're completely dysfunctional.
Thankfully their parents were very open minded so I didn't have to watch anything else that weekend and they could spend the weekend at the parent's house w/o interruption
I know how annoying it is to have an adult in the house "just because"
Like for example, I've double-parked people into their parking spots before. If some in their 30's or 40's comes out, almost always they just straightforwardly say "Hey I've got to move my car, can you back up?" "Yeah no problem sorry about that." "Thanks."
If everybody is dysfunctional, nobody is
1:38 PM
But if somebody in their 20's comes out they simply don't know how to interact. Usually they just get angry off the bat, acting like it was the rudest thing ever. Super aggro.
And when you respond to them politely all of a sudden their attitude changes back to a normal person.
But they just don't know how to initiate an interaction out of the gate.
I blame that on lack of communicating with verbal and body language cues.
Thankfully though, none of my cousins are particularly IT-smart
So they can't pull fast ones on me
Well it's like, if you have a generation used to making and dealing with atrocities like YouTube comment threads as their primary mode of communication, when they have to interact in real life, they immediately start off on the defensive. That's a problem.
though I sometimes wonder, I'm 22 now, how vastly different the language of the 13-17 year olds is nowadays
And apologies for generalizing age groups I realize there are many exceptions.
It's just the easiest way for me to categorize.
I know
1:41 PM
@Magisch They'll normalize
I'm not offended
Its actually really hard to offend me at all
It's crazy right. Even you at 22 see a difference in the 13-17 year old group.
I was never really part of youth culture though
It changes so fast. I'm 34 and my sister is 29. We're incredibly similar except she has such a different view of online communication, Facebook, etc.
inherently getting drunk or high and this entire "text instead of speak" thing seemed so asinine to me
1:42 PM
I'm 35 and my sister is 30. Duh.
Birthdays last month. Forgot. >.>
My parents did nothing to influence that
I'm wondering how people would act if their online identity was tied to their physical one, without any way to separate the two.
@JanDvorak Really depends.
not as callous and not nearly as stupid, thats for sure
then again
Maybe they would
A younger crowd now maybe just as callous and stupid, I think.
It depends on what comes first: The online interactions, or the physical ones.
It's not so much identity as it is lack of physical cues. So tied together or not, if you grow up without interacting with people in reality, you're going to turn out differently. Louis CK's got a good bit about it lemme find it.
Oh and not to mention the fact that the last 15 years has basically blown away and invalidated a century of child psychology, given how exposed children are to the world outside their immediate family and friends now.
1:45 PM
It also depends on which people you meet physicall
Maybe. Probably. I don't know.
@JanDvorak I think that in the future, maybe not so far ahead, this will be real, i.e. the only way to use the internet will be after giving unique real identification like eye scanning or fingerprint scanning, then the identity will be sent just like the IP address.
Watch that bit ^ it kinda nails it.
I welcome you to take a look at the gypsy ghettos in Central Europe
These guys literally breed for money
@JanDvorak that doesn't sound good...
1:48 PM
It isn't. Luckily I didn't get much exposure to them.
They collect government money so that they could raise their kids, then let the kids raise themselves.
> Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. -- Robert E Howard
@Derpy It's nice to be called out for your mistakes instead of getting a 30 minute chat ban
@JanDvorak Oh don't get me started coughRory Alsopcough.
@JanDvorak yep, but if you know that you won't never get hurt yourself because you hurt others, then many "humans" will continue to do that.
That's when they should get hurt
1:56 PM
Ha; he's got a new weirdly-relevant-to-our-convo bit on Conan:
A big problem is that today's kids learn their behavior from Hollywood media.
Lol come on, be honest, that's not a today problem. That's been a problem for decades. I fought that growing up, and so did my parents.
I guess...
That's the "kids these days with their ... tvs and their radios" complaint.
@JanDvorak isn't that the whole concept of law and punishment for those breaking it? Though sitting in prison isn't really physically hurting...
2:00 PM
Even ancient Romans had their Colosseum.
@ShadowWizard sitting in prison is one thing, that you won't get a decent job afterwards is far worse
Media success relies on programming young kids, it's always been that way. And it always will be. It's just a given. It's fine. It's just business. It's up to parents to give kids the tools they need to make their own decisions. That's where problems like what @Magisch was talking about come in.
I do really, really like that the internet gives kids options about what to consume. That's a super positive change over the past, I think.
@ShadowWizard but those are only the extreme consequences, and even then they will work only if you get caught.
I spotted a group of 15-18 year old kids talking about how upset they were that Netflix pulled MASH the other day. How great is that?
mostly, you don't have consequences if you bully someone online or such...
2:04 PM
That's what that first Louis CK bit I posted above was about, and one of the things I think is the issue, sort of related to the example I gave about parking my car.
so while maybe the fear of consequence would stop you from robbing a bank, it will probably do nothing while you decide to try and see if you can make someone cry on roblox, for example
Don't forget the other side
If you get bullied online a lot you have no recourse, really, and no way to get any feedback on your ability to defend yourself. So you end up coming out of the gate defensive in real life, without being able to handle yourself.
(note: roblox here is just an example since from what I see it is both pretty popular and played by very young users too)
People just get used to a default super aggro communication style
Anyways, I've enjoyed rehashing cliche armchair topics with you guys, and look forward to doing so again in the future. Back to work. Peace, lol.
@JasonC For later: When you're navigating online, often the only way to make your response count is to think of the most vile, vitriolic and revolting thing you could say back - thats why people resort to death threats over near everything these days
2:31 PM
@Magisch care for an example?
@Derpy he doesn't. Why should he?
(that wasn't nearly vitriolic enough, but I don't want to get chat-banned)
@JanDvorak Sorry, I left my lance at home...
2:49 PM
Ok, Nick, what did you break this time?
We are aware of issues on Stack Overflow right now. We are investigating.
fun that meta.so is still up
they forgot to pay the monthly protection-fee to baba?
That might be it. They are looking in the logs to find the IBAN number
they paid
"Thank you for your payment to BaBaBanking"
2:59 PM
then maybe the moebius-ring UPS system failed the reality checks again?
Surely they didn't forgot to feed the hamsters, right?
Stack Overflow appears to be stable again. We are keeping an eye on it.
3:16 PM
Can site 404 pages be a randomly chosen image from a set, or is it always fixed to one image?
@JasonC I believe that one is fixed, the error page is dynamic?
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3:56 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: Cognishield Redesign Your Health By Rewiring Your Brain by ZaiboPuter8055 on superuser.com
There was some spam on travel yesterday from some clothing outlet site
I sent an email to their registrar
"Thanks for your email.

I have deleted the domain.

Have a nice day!"
michaelkorsoutletonline2016.com - page not found, fist pump
I feel so validated.
All right I'm done patting myself on the back for trivial actions now. Carry on.
4:49 PM
5:12 PM
I just slept for 13.5h because it's a professional development day at my school.
You slept at school?
I slept at home and don't have to go to school.
Oh, that makes sense ...
… until now, since I have a 14:30 college class.
5:31 PM
When a "bad" question elicits a good answer, does it cease to be a bad question?
5:52 PM
@AaronHall I don't know but meta.stackexchange.com/questions/223454/… is related.
@AaronHall no. That's why self answered questions can't hide behind an awesome answer for example
@AaronHall, @Bart Well, the thing to keep in mind is: It's always possible that it wasn't actually a bad question, and you misjudged, in which case the extra info an answer gives may cause you to rethink your opinion. The other possibility is it wasn't the greatest question, but somebody who answered it was able to interpret it in a way that you weren't, and in that case perhaps retroactively improving the clarity of the question is in order.
It's not really cut and dry. It totally depends on the question, the answer, the context, your mood, your cat's mood, etc.
You just gotta remember that in some cases, other people interpret things in a way that puts them on the same page as the asker even if you're not on the same page (which isn't a shortcoming on anybody's part, it's just a fact).
I guess another case is if the question is so bad that it's almost good to have around as a warning sign; like my favorite example is stackoverflow.com/questions/3905734/… - which currently holds the title as SO's biggest reversal.
Speaking of biggest reversals: Holy crap, I'm glad I missed meta.stackexchange.com/q/272956/230261
That did not exist the last time I checked my reversal query, lol.
6:24 PM
@Bart oh, that's an interesting principle, it sounds perfectly reasonable - can you cite the source of that axiom?
@JasonC Heisenberg's cat?
@JasonC That just means the lion had courage all along.
I think I've rescued several of my own questions by providing my own answer - so that might be evidence against that reasoning, @Bart.
@AaronHall not really. If your answers for example clarify the question, that still implies the question wasn't good/clear enough. But granted, nothing is black or white. Varying levels of grey, with the occasional beige.
schemes to change his SO identity to "Heisencat" with the requisite kitty picture, but never follows through
Self-answered improvements, that I'm not sure about... I mean if you asked "How do I de-asterisk my somaflange?" and then self-answered it with "It sounds like you've forgotten that array indices in C start at 0" and accepted that answer on the grounds that you totally knew what you meant, that's not really a fair retro clarification.
6:38 PM
Here, let's take off an unnecessary constraint that I think is impairing logic: self
@AaronHall You're ignoring the greater question here: How to handle a somaflange that has unseemly asterisks.
I have managed to read the mind of some questioners, answer the question that they're really asking, then I clarified their question with an edit.
@JasonC you deflange the qwerplinks. Geez. RTFM
In the process, they usually went from negative score to positive.
@AaronHall because you made the question better ... not because the answer is good
6:40 PM
Yeah; so from the pov of a reader who wasn't you, who didn't understand the question like you did, your answer in a way made the question better, and then your edit highlighted that.
@Bart Wth dude stop power tripping. Typical. I'm sick of this site. Good luck, morons.
Maybe what I'm saying is this: Yes, great answers can provide more clarity to a question. That however does not make the question better. It, in isolation, is still as poor as it was before. (Assuming there were not clarifying edits)
It was then that @JasonC got flagged and suspended for his language in chat. Comedy never backfired as beautifully
And, @AaronHall, my personal take on it, which is different than Bart's (and Bart's take is very reasonable), is: Sometimes great answers can make a reader realize a question wasn't as poor as it originally looked.
If you think the questions' and answers' scores aren't related, you ignore the mountains of evidence on these sites for it. In spite of the "reversals."
When did "moron" get on the offensive language list, lol
@AaronHall Ah, but I have let go of the idea that what is upvoted is also good a long time ago. :p
6:46 PM
@JasonC somewhere between the be-nice post and the post about banning rep-*****
The quality of posts is highly subjective. We want objective, but that's elusive.
I remember a rather trivial question some time ago that had an absolutely brilliant answer by Jon Skeet. In return, the question got quite some upvotes just because of the amount of visits and the appreciation of the answer (of course, that's my interpretation). But that doesn't mean (to me) that the question has become great in light of the answer.
Then again, I'm a grumpy Dutch guy who is trying to find darkness where there is light. So interpret that as you wish.
+1 for grumpy Dutch
I have a supportive role in this discussion
= Dumpy?
Or Grutch
@JasonC that was the name of my cat when I still lived at my parents, before the war.
6:51 PM
Or... the comment you actually replied to, because I'm an idiot.
@JasonC Yes
@rene ah, the 1560's were great, weren't they?
they sure were
Jun 16 at 13:40, by Andy
I'm going to disagree that a post that has nearly 10 times more votes should be bumped down a notch.
^^^^ this is a sentiment you disagree with?
@Bart I think that means everybody questioned their own judgment once they saw that Jon Skeet found it worthy to answer, lol.
6:56 PM
Hey, what happened with this idea?
Jun 14 at 14:29, by Shadow Wizard
@bluefeet since Jeff left there is a feeling that things can radically change in SE, and that feeling is still there for me. All the changes so far were cosmetic or new additions, but I believe the current management and team can, and will, touch the very core and change it if convinced it is required. Not talking about removing downvotes or accepts, but something like letting votes expire, or change the sort algorithm is possible. Just need someone strong enough from the inside to push it. :)
@JasonC hah, could very well be. I've got to find that one again.
Votes need to expire - or something.
@AaronHall everybody got behind it, all cheered, plans were made, and then we realize @ShadowWizard said it, so we moved on. :p
