IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-11-14

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pupnikclutter doesnt antialias application overview?00:02
felipecjkridner|work: I don't really know anything about this, just what ds has said00:02
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lcukn900phone is saying 3.5g whats that then00:05
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range3.5 * 9.81m/s^200:06
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, HSPA00:09
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javispedropupnik: GL_TEXTURE_MIN_FILTER, GL_NEAREST00:14
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javispedroso I guess not...00:14
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* GAN900 <3 Comcast00:16
pupnikthanks javispedro00:23
pupnikis there a feature request to send/share video clips from media player?00:23
pupnikthat seems pretty obvious00:23
pupnikand reviewers will want it00:23
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pupniktablet-encode is addictive00:28
pupniki have such great looking conversions 200-500ÃB00:29
lcukn900why would a desktop shortcut vanish o_O00:29
GeneralAntillesBecause hildon-home crashed?00:30
lcukn900not that i know of00:31
lcukn900its got everything else00:31
GeneralAntillesIt wont necessarily tell you.00:31
lcukn900just one is mia00:31
qwerty12_N810What shortcut, exactly?00:31
lcukn900its not listed in the add thing either00:31
lcukn900i used it about an hour ago00:32
lcukn900me needs new sw so i can file bugs if they occur00:32
lcukn900mind you this is same hw that failed at summit too00:33
* lcukn900 has given it northernitis00:33
lcukn900lukes major illness btw is tonsilitis00:34
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serenityhi there00:43
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serenityis there a plugin for conversations that i can use icq?00:43
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greenflyserenity: the AIM plugin should work for icq as well00:46
greenflyjust use your icq # as the username00:46
serenityok, thanks00:46
serenitysame company, should work ;)00:47
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Xisdibikwould love any of your guys input in my offtopic thread ;)
simulai heard that n900's started shipping on the 10th... anyone get their n900 yet?00:52
Xisdibiksimula: not me :(00:53
pupnikmedia player not supporting youtube flv is going to bother ppl too00:53
SpeedEvilsimula: they diddn't really.00:53
SpeedEvilsimula: they started shipping to distributors00:53
SpeedEvilsimula: Not one user has reported availability.00:53
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SpeedEvilI ordered through, and have had no email saying they're shipping.00:53
simulame neither00:53
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pupniklook at these multi-megabyte python apps that do almost nothing00:58
GeneralAntilles Erm00:59
GeneralAntillesDo you have Python installed? :)00:59
pupnikfmtuner > 6 MB00:59
GeneralAntillesWhere do you get "multimegabyte" then?00:59
GeneralAntillesThose are libraries, mostly.00:59
pupnikmirror > 6 MB00:59
pupnik6 > 100:59
GeneralAntillesErm, yeah, you don't have the libs installed.00:59
pupnikwith libs it was 22 MB01:00
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pupnik4 minutes downloading one python applet01:02
lcukpupnik, did you get your phone sorted then01:02
lcukGeneralAntilles, HSPA is super broadband stuff?01:02
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's 3.5G01:02
pupnikexternal charger lcuk01:03
mikkov__fmradio 445KB when I have one another python app installed01:03
pupnikok ty01:03
GeneralAntillespupnik, told ya. Libs.01:03
pupnikthen i misunderstood the reporting01:03
pupnik"details" said 22 MB01:03
mikkov__you didn't have python installed then01:03
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jaem_n900hey folks01:05
GiantTalkingCowAny IRC clients currently running on Freemantle?01:05
jaem_n900I just called Rogers to ask about data plans, and the rep pulled a Verizon01:05
lcukbut i notice after an evening with it, its not perfect01:05
mikkov__pidgin too01:05
lcukwhen i minimize to tray, where does it go?01:05
GeneralAntilleslcuk, lol.01:05
GeneralAntilleslcuk, that's not XChat's fault.01:06
lcuknever said it was01:06
GiantTalkingCowAlready ported, is it? Thanks.01:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk, there's no support for that built-in in Fremantle.01:06
lcukits a legit question tho, where does it go and how do i get it back01:06
GeneralAntillesIt gets minimized01:06
GeneralAntillesBut the hildon statusbar doesn't support that functionality01:06
lcukcant it become a tray icon thingy01:06
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jaem_n900the Rogers rep said that data overages were "0.03 cents" per MB01:06
GeneralAntillesIf you write an applet for it.01:06
jaem_n900somehow I doubt that01:07
lcukor host it inside xchat itself01:07
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lcuki hear ya01:07
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kurtanfrals: såg du att klas skrev på minhembio ?01:07
lcukim also not sure if its sleeping01:07
fralsnegative, checking not01:07
* lcuk will have to powertop01:07
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kurtanfrals: wut?01:08
fralschecking now*01:08
kurtanhehe :D01:08
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mikkov__lcuk: try installing Notification Area from extras-testing01:08
lcukare there multiple versions of xchat now01:08
* lcuk thinks he remembered something01:08
pupniklest this noise distract from the point - gross, fat, slow... python.  mirror is still installing TEN MINUTES later01:08
lcukpupnik, what kind of connection are you on? ip over avian?01:09
GeneralAntillespupnik, there are tradeoffs in everything.01:09
GeneralAntillespupnik, Python's low barrier to entry makes it heavier and slower.01:09
jaem_n900lcuk: IPoA is all the rage now01:09
GeneralAntillespupnik, not really worth freaking out about, however. ;)01:09
GeneralAntillesPersonally I'd rather have more applications.01:09
fralskurtan: god the language in that post is quite bad, id expect someone like him to take greater care when he posts on a public forum01:10
jaem_n900seriously, though I read an article about a South African company switching to flash key-carrying pidgeons01:10
kurtanfrals: well, yes01:10
kurtanbut it is still him01:10
fralsyeah just saw the twitter msg01:11
Macerthere is something special about kung fu the legend continues01:13
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Macerwhere back in the day people would settle their differences by kung fu fighting on the streets01:13
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pupnikRST38h's ines is  95KB01:14
DantonicN800penguinbait, hi u there?01:15
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sp3001and now to find out why ubuntu decided to <blink>the wireless light</blink> at me01:18
Stskeepscos whoever made that feature should be shot01:19
sp3001I'm ....I'm ...I'M SENDING DATA!111 <blink/><blink/><blink/>01:19
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sp3001it's the HI YOU MIGHT BE ON IRC light01:19
sp3001also, the HI YOU MIGHT STILL BE ON IRC light01:19
sp3001fascinating stuff01:19
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lcuksp3001, has the light conge off now?01:21
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sp3001dammit, now you made it blink again01:22
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lcuko_O lol01:22
zackyf*. I want my phone allready..01:23
pupniki was just on n810 and tried to switch to n900 in tasklist01:23
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pupnikovi live not working here - maybe overloaded01:24
pupnikn900 ad-hoc wlan streaming webcam could be a nice applet01:26
pupniksome thing that lets you share your bideo without a central server01:26
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pupnikfeature idea: fast switching between 10 running apps with shift-fn + number01:32
DantonicHey if I'm partitioning to boot from internal SD, are there any drawbacks to creating a boot partition and swap partition on the same internal card?01:32
Dantonicshould the swap be on the external SD?01:32
Dantonicthis on N800 btw01:33
jjmarinjjmarin: I'm using the SDK. How can I close ' start' nicely. If I close with ctrl C I can't start it again, I  get several messages of error stop01:33
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jjmarindmj726: yes, thanks ;)01:36
dmj726had the same problem yesterday :)01:36
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pupnikapp idea - media transcoder to automatically transcode unplayable videos01:37
pupnikmencoder right on tablet01:37
GeneralAntillesBleh, battery killer01:38
GeneralAntillesBetter to use tablet-encode on a server.01:38
pupnike.g. someone sends you a youtube flv .. metacrawler finds it and trandcode daemon pops up to ask user "transcode now"?01:38
pupnikwe are mobile01:39
GeneralAntillesBetter to get flv playback working.01:39
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pupnikthe front facing cam is cute01:39
jjmarinI'm getting a lot of messages on the Xephyr window like wdgt_va_24h, wdgt_va_date_long, wdgt_va_24_time, wdgt_bd_done, wdgtbdsave, etc . How can I fix this ?01:39
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pupnikreally cool lookin bnoise in dark rooms!  like a movie effect01:40
GeneralAntillesjjmarin, is it impacting functionality?01:40
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pupnikthe daily history in maemo5 browser is very useful!01:44
pupnikfast to get-to.  well done!01:44
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Dantonichey GeneralAntilles can I ask you a partitioning question?01:56
DantonicDoes the location of the swap partition matter in regards to speed? for example would placing the swap at the beginning of an SD card be faster than at the end?  I guess I don't know how memory is accessed in an SD card01:57
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`0660_to my understanding the swap partition is already in a high speed flash01:57
`0660_also the location does not matter with flash01:58
Dantonicwell I'm about to create the swap...01:58
Dantonicbut yeah your second statement is what I was interested in...01:58
Dantonicso how is memory accessed in SD?01:58
till-you don't need to position a read/write head01:59
till-so the position does not matter01:59
`0660_around 128KB at the time i think01:59
`0660_actually no01:59
DantonicI mean physically you're saying there is no difference in time to access the 1st byte on the card as the last byte?02:00
`0660_that's correct02:00
`0660_there are no moving parts in flash02:00
till-maybe a very little difference, as the electric energy travels with lightspeed and the distance to one end of the memory might be a little bit longer ..02:01
dmj726Anyone do icons here?02:01
Dantonicright I understand that but doesnt the electricity still have to travel physically from one byte located phisically somewhere on the card, or another byte located somewhere else??  Or probably that's not a bottleneck in regafds to accessing it?02:01
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`0660_but that delay would be hidden by the controller anyway02:01
Dantonicok so the controller is the bottleneck basically02:02
Dantonicso it doesnt matter02:02
till-and the memory itself i would say02:02
`0660_i think the controller waits a fixed period of time for the data to arrive02:02
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Dantonicdo you guys have a NIT?  boot from SD card?02:02
till-did once02:03
till-but the file system got corrupt, so i switched back02:03
DantonicI guess tho definitely keep the swap on a separate SD card tho right?02:03
Dantonicso if I boot from internal, keep the swap on external?02:03
Dantonicotherwise it might get too slow?02:03
till-i don't think so02:04
Dantonicor it wouldnt affect anything?02:04
DantonicI mean in that case the same controller would be having to deal with accessing memory for swap and for the OS?02:04
till-normal computers put the swap on the same hd as the files02:04
Dantonicbut wouldnt it be better to have swap be accessed by a different controller that is ONLY accessing the swap at that time?02:05
till-and are there really two memory controllers, or just one with two card slots connected?02:05
Dantonicas opposed to having to compete for information?02:05
Dantonicoh IDK about that02:05
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Dantonicidk if its 1 controller02:05
Dantonicor 202:05
jjmarinGeneralAntilles: What do you mean with "is it impacting functionality?". These messages appear on several menus across Maemo.02:05
till-someone should do some benchmarking02:05
Dantonicya that'd be interesting...02:05
till-my problem with swap is that the whole nit freeze for some seconds02:06
till-and i guess it's because of swapping02:06
Dantonicwell I'm gonna make a 500mb Fat, 1500mb linux, and make a swap on my external... and see what happens02:06
till-yeah, no reaction02:07
Dantonichmm  yeah I've experienced that02:07
till-and then after maybe 30 seconds or so it continous normal work02:07
Dantonicoh woah not 30 second freezes02:07
till-or crashes the desktop02:07
Dantonicmaybe few seconds02:07
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Dantonicnot 3002:07
till-and reset my customized menu and desktop02:07
Dantonicno that's not swapping02:08
Dantonicfor me it was GPE summary02:08
pupnikxterm needs url log and launch!02:08
DantonicI figured out it was crashing my desktop02:08
Dantonicdo you use that prog?02:08
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till-i had claws mail, pidgin, xchat and some websites open :)02:08
Dantonicwell since I got rid of GPE summary no more desktop crash...02:08
till-for me it was the home tools applett02:08
Dantonicthen I found that there was an updated version of GPE summary in extras devel... and installed that... its been 3 days and no crash yet... we'll see how it goes02:09
till-since i removed it the desktop keep beeing stable02:09
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Dantonicyeah some applets have problems02:09
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till-does somebody know if the email-app on the n900 supports folders in imap?02:10
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jjmarinAnybody knows why I get this wdgt* messages:
GeneralAntillesjjmarin, you're missing strings.02:15
GeneralAntillesnokia-binaries and nokia-apps installed?02:15
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jjmarinGeneralAntilles: Yes, I installed this afternoon with fakeroot apt-get install nokia-binaries nokia-appss nokia, but I can try it again02:16
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure why some people are missing strings02:17
kurtanfrals: lol02:17
kurtani got a pm from klas..02:17
kurtanhe invited me to try the n900 on sunday D:02:17
fralsnerf :<02:17
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fralstell him to ship one my way so i can play some with mms ;P02:18
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kurtanill take my d300 with me to take som pics02:18
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kurtanfrals: hehe02:18
lcukGeneralAntilles, new or changed apps published since the system strings were updated02:18
kurtanwow.. im still in chock from getting that response from him02:19
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jjmarinthe newest version of nokia-binaries and nokia-apps are installed. Which language work for you ?02:21
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jjmarinGeneralAntilles: English UK seems to work good for me02:24
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CutMeOwnThroatso how long until the N900 will be cheapish02:57
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simulaa truly portable computer for $550 seems pretty cheap to me :)02:59
`0660_CutMeOwnThroat, around the time the next model will show up03:00
kurtanits cheap already, its more about availibility03:00
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CutMeOwnThroatsimula, it's not a total replacement, you can't connect a monitor or beamer!03:02
simulacutmeownthroat... it has a video out03:02
simulaa beamer?03:02
CutMeOwnThroatit does?03:02
CutMeOwnThroatha, missed that03:02
CutMeOwnThroatbut that's TV03:03
kurtanstill.. its something out03:04
CutMeOwnThroatsimula, err video projector03:04
Proteousjust hack it to support video out via usb03:04
CutMeOwnThroatare there translators that'll go usb->dvi or usb->VGA03:05
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simulamost video projectors have vga inputs03:06
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Proteousyou can buy monitors tha connect via usb03:06
CutMeOwnThroatgoogle just told me that03:06
Proteousalso you can buy usb video cards03:06
ProteousI elieve there are linux drivers03:07
lcukyeah but you would lose the speed03:08
lcukyou can buy a dongle for the video out to vga03:08
CutMeOwnThroatso with bluetooth or usb keyboard and mouse you'd really be rather close to a desktop03:08
CutMeOwnThroatwell, more notebook03:09
lcukvideo out rocks btw03:09
CutMeOwnThroatwell, don't have a TV03:09
lcuknor do i03:10
lcukit kicks ass for presenting from tho03:10
lcukno need for a computer03:10
simulamy monitor has vga input :)03:10
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simulabut i'm just planning on using it's sweet 800x480 screen while toting it and just plugging it into my desktop when i need it's data03:12
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kurtan"think of it like shipping channels in the ocean"03:14
lcukive been mucking about with a projector that is small enough to fit into a bag and still be lighter than my laptop03:14
CutMeOwnThroatha... wait some more years and a projector and a laser keyboard will be integrated03:15
* lcuk nods03:15
lcukcant wait03:15
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CutMeOwnThroatyou'll have to03:15
lcukthe alternative is proper real wireless video out03:15
lcukbeing tethered to give a presentatation takes the fun out of it a tad03:15
dmj726lcuk: that would be a killer app03:15
lcukdmj726, which03:15
lcukwireless video o03:15
zelrikriandowhat app03:16
lcukr projector03:16
dmj726wireless video out03:16
lcukthats not an app03:16
lcukit would have uses03:16
zelrikriandoThat s a device03:16
* lcuk is considering something along similar lines03:16
dmj726(which is a lot easier to do "in software" than a projector)03:16
zelrikriandonot an app03:16
CutMeOwnThroatmm, a projector would need to be laser-based, else it'd eat up much too much energy, I guess03:16
CutMeOwnThroateven then...03:16
lcukhow would you keep the shark alive?03:16
lcukit would need a little tank03:16
dmj726oh, I see the kind of video out you're thinking03:16
lcukno you dont03:17
dmj726Do they even have wireless video standards like that?03:17
zelrikriandoI am not sure but I think the app would be easy to write03:17
CutMeOwnThroatbut I do!03:17
lcukdmj726, ive been getting wireless video for years ;)03:17
lcuki actually have something cool in mind03:17
dmj726Do mention!03:18
lcukand if i can get it working for one thing it might cascade into many things03:18
lcukthis is the pseudo version:
lcuki want that working for real but knowing where the devices are positioned relative to each other03:18
lcukand i think if i can get it working for that one case, it might work for all of liqbase03:19
dmj726hooray, n900 wall!03:19
zelrikriandolol what03:19
lcukyeah dmj726 but if the ui crosses 4 screens03:19
lcukand i just break one off to be a list03:19
lcukand another to be tools03:19
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lcukand another to be design view03:20
zelrikriandohey are there decent review of the n90003:20
lcukbut thats been something ive pondered for a while03:20
lcukill get it right with one goal first to see how it can work03:20
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dmj726Too bad I wouldn't be able to take advantage of it!03:21
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lcukliqbase works nicely on n81003:21
dmj726(Only for lack of multiple nxxx's)03:21
lcukheh its just the principle03:22
lcukand those multiple devices were just a few friends coming together03:22
dmj726And the principle has me excited03:22
lcukto collaboarate and have fun03:22
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dmj726I do know of one working n800 that a friend has03:22
dmj726their other NIT has the horrid screen of death issue03:23
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lcukahhh the 770 Torch apP!03:23
lcukapp even!03:23
CutMeOwnThroatbut... the devices should have adjusted to changing position on the table with information from the GPS!03:25
lcukgps doesnt work indoors03:25
CutMeOwnThroatI know03:26
CutMeOwnThroatI was kidding03:26
lcukthis is a technical problem im discussing with folks03:26
dmj726and it isn't *that* precise either!03:26
lcuktheres a few methods03:26
lcukaudio would be one03:26
lcukhave the devices chirp from each speaker in sequence03:26
lcukand have the others listening03:26
lcukthen compare notes on the relative volumes of each other03:26
lcukand work out location based on that03:27
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simulathere is a radio transmitter and receiver ;)03:27
lcukput up a 2dbarcode when the master machine says "cheese"03:27
lcukradio is harder to get info reqd03:27
CutMeOwnThroatactually... I dunno if that could really work, but "together" at a relatively low frequency might work better than "in sequence"03:27
lcuksequence is better03:27
lcukand easier to manage03:27
lcukand if done properly will sound like old school spectrum tapes (H)03:28
CutMeOwnThroatyou'd get a typical interference pattern at the micro, depending on distance/orientation03:28
lcukradio is mono03:28
lcukusing audio i can shout from 2 places03:28
lcukeasier to triangulate03:28
lcukanother alternative is 2dbarcode03:29
lcukon the display03:29
* lcuk just said that already03:29
CutMeOwnThroatwhat's the radio transmitter for?03:30
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lcuktransmitting audio03:32
lcukin car stuff without wires03:32
lcukworks really well03:32
lcukcould hack the planet03:32
lcukhost it in a wok and go for distance03:33
dmj726in a wok?03:34
CutMeOwnThroatthat's a thing used for cooking03:34
CutMeOwnThroatlike a big metal pan03:34
dmj726yeah, but why host it in one?03:34
CutMeOwnThroatprobably because it's kind of parabolically shaped...03:35
dmj726Oh, right.03:35
dmj726Could probably get rather good distance if you focus it tightly in one direction.03:35
dmj726directional wifi gets about 1 km range03:36
CutMeOwnThroatmore, I think03:36
CutMeOwnThroatI read the story of a guy who used 2 satellite dishes to connect to a... "neighbor", because his region of the city didn't have DSL, but some people a couple of km off did...03:38
CutMeOwnThroatactually he just went to houses in the direct line of sight and knocked... offering to pay for a DSL connection if they'd forward it to him (which was cheaper than all "normal" alternatives available at his house)03:39
CutMeOwnThroatlcuk, I bought a used satellite dish for a couple of dollar because I wanted to see how far I can connect to things03:42
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CutMeOwnThroatonly... lease doesn't allow to mount stuff outside the apartment and there's nothing much inviting to mount it on anyway03:43
dmj726balcony furniture?03:44
lcukneighbours wall?03:44
CutMeOwnThroatthere is none03:45
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CutMeOwnThroatI'm on the 7th floor on a corner more or less facing the next crossroad, as all direct neighbors are only at ground-floor level03:45
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CutMeOwnThroatI'm underneath the roof, but... it's a bit weird for access03:47
lcukCutMeOwnThroat, im having trouble visualizing the layout, what happened to the neighbours on 2,3,4,5,6 floors?  do you live in a floating tower?03:47
lcukarrive by helicopter?03:48
CutMeOwnThroatyes... no, by a flying horse03:48
lcuk:D lol03:48
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CutMeOwnThroatanyway, my neighbor the princess wouldn't like it03:48
lcuksurely she lives in a tower herself and would welcome the prospect of a prince offering to share his wifi with her03:49
CutMeOwnThroatoh, but I'm just a humble woodcutter...03:50
lcuki just let the cat in cos he was out and its raining03:51
lcukand just came all the way back up03:51
lcukand didnt realise both of em were out and i left one ther03:51
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CutMeOwnThroatand all that just so they can run over keyboards...03:56
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lcukthe kitten likes sleeping on the laptop03:57
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dmj726by laptop, you of course mean heated cat bed, right?04:12
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kurtanthats enough for me to crave the n900 even more04:15
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dmj726 xchat shouldn't have that massive scrollbar04:16
kurtanirssi thou.. <304:17
dmj726pannable area would make a lot of sense there.04:17
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GeneralAntillesdmj726, it doesn't.04:19
dmj726not in xchat?04:19
GeneralAntillesdmj726, feel free to implement panable. ;)04:19
dmj726instead of the scroll thing?04:19
dmj726a right xchat, not gchat04:19
GeneralAntillesXChat has a custom widget for the chat area.04:20
GeneralAntillesSo changing that to pannable is non-trivial.04:20
dmj726oh...that's much better04:20
dmj726might be nice to be able to bring up a list of channel participants04:21
dmj726...perhaps as a popup?04:21
CutMeOwnThroatkurtan, there still doesn't seem to be a key for '|', though04:23
kurtangotta be accessible trou the sym-key?04:24
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CutMeOwnThroaton the N810 I could just put a button on the screen next to Tab etc.04:24
CutMeOwnThroatwas a pain until I figured that out... what's a terminal without pipe?04:24
kurtanill try to figure that out on sunday04:25
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kalikianatoliand xchat still hasn't fixed the close icon :-]04:25
kurtanbut.. irssi, weechat > xchat :P04:26
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kalikianatoliwell, since xchat has no menu, the only difference is that it has buttons to switch tabs04:26
kurtanoh god, i want my n900 so :(04:27
GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, just rebind something.04:27
CutMeOwnThroatyeah, there's even free spaces on the keys with <>... but the on-screen button worked well enough so I didn't bother to figure out how to get it on a key04:28
CutMeOwnThroatdmj726, got me04:28
CutMeOwnThroatno, actually it's not... but probably near as bad to use :)04:29
kurtandebian on a mobile device.. its so epic i cant even.. well, gaaaah04:30
microlithkurtan: you and thousands of others04:30
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kurtanits like something from star trek04:33
dmj726there's a theme for that!04:33
CShadowRunDoes maemo use X11?04:34
CShadowRunthought it did...someone is wrong on the internet!04:35
dmj726there's an xkcd for that04:35
CShadowRuni know. :D04:35
GeneralAntilles CShadowRun, particularly where Maemo is concerned, that's usually the case.04:35
dmj726digital compass conspiracy I say!04:35
GeneralAntillesCShadowRun, Maemo is basically the GNOME mobile stack.04:36
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CShadowRunYea i figured it was04:37
* CShadowRun corrected the guy who was wrong on the internet.04:37
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GeneralAntillesCShadowRun, personally, I can't read any discussions about Maemo 'cause of all the people that insist on being wrong.04:38
CShadowRunI can't wait to get my hands on the N900 personally, gonna install irssi on it ;)04:38
dmj726Have you heard the rumor that the n900 has a laser projector?04:38
dmj726and tha Nokia just wants it to be a surprise?04:39
CShadowRunNope, but i bet i know where that stemmed from04:39
GeneralAntillesCShadowRun, install screen instead. ;)04:39
CShadowRunI bet that somehow originated from 3M's mini projector04:39, I just pulled it out of thin air, either that or darker places.04:40
CShadowRunI've always wanted to install ubuntu and compiz on the N900 too04:40
TermanaAnyone else excited that they are suppose to be finally releasing the GLES driver for OMAP2 today?04:40
CShadowRuni know it wouldn't be particularly practical, but it would be awesome.04:40
kurtanthou i'd like a phaser-function04:40
CutMeOwnThroatkurtan, yeah, I wonder if they'll drop maemo and just supply some extra-apps to a regular debian... I mean... 32GB - that really doesn't justify scraping all manpages and all the things that are done in maemo to save space...04:40
kurtanblast my enemies away04:40
dmj726it's not a straight up 32 GB04:41
kurtanhaha, compiz on the n900 is a bit far fetched :P04:41
GeneralAntillesTermana, according to whom?04:41
dmj726the root partition is like 256 MB04:41
kurtanepic thou04:41
dmj726didn't they get compiz on the n800?04:41
FirebirdTermana, really, yes, according to whom?04:41
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TermanaGeneralAntilles: SD6904:41
kurtanCShadowRun: :D04:41
dmj726with ubuntu 9.04?04:41
TermanaFirebird: SD69 posted it in the thread04:41
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CShadowRunwell, it does have an opengl capable graphics card on it04:42
CShadowRunand i assume all those funky effects that are running are composited04:42 theory04:42
FirebirdTermana, "the thread" ?04:42
TermanaFirebird - lol,
Firebirdah, nice04:43
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GeneralAntillesCShadowRun, it's part of the SoC, not a separate GPU.04:43
Firebird"Timeline: 2-4 months(?) " :o04:44
TermanaFirebird - wheres it say that?04:44
FirebirdTermana, diablo community project wiki page04:44
TermanaYeah, thats for the community edition of Diablo, it has nothing to do with the release of the GLES drivers.04:45
GeneralAntillesFirebird, that's for Diablo community SSUs.04:45
GeneralAntillesSD69, sounds more like he's saying that work is starting.04:45
Termanalol :P04:46
kurtani have to say, it really seems like nokia has something going here, they really got the "developers, developers, developers"-thingy04:46
TermanaBut at the start of his post he specifically says "TI will be releasing the drivers today"04:46
kurtann900 and meamo will attract loaaads of them04:46
Termanakurtan - yeah, just without the whole Steve Ballmer crazyness thing04:46
GeneralAntillesTermana, they "confirmed today"04:46
GeneralAntillesNot that it's happening today.04:46
GeneralAntillesTermana, I was under the impression that they'd already confirmed that.04:47
GeneralAntillesAt the Summit.04:47
dmj726Nokia got me to pick up Python04:47
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TermanaGeneralAntilles: Touche. You could be right, hes worded it very sneakily :P04:47
Termanakurtan - oh no :|04:49
kurtanthe end of the universe is steve ballmer in a sweaty shirt04:49
kurtanone just has to realise it :P04:49
dmj726panting Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers...04:49
Termanakurtan - Just wait. Soon someone from Nokia will also say "I LOVE THIS COMPANY"04:50
TermanaWhen you hear that, you know the four horses are on their way.04:50
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kurtani prefer the white horse04:51
kurtancash <304:51
Termanaisn't that white horse suppose to represent evil?04:51
Termanaand/or righteous?04:52
dmj726I thought it meant Gandalf is coming?04:52
kurtanmysik: Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around <04:26>04:52
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aepi wonder if we will finally see sophisticated linux viruses now that consumer devices are going to run a real linux04:56
aepmaemo doesnt run forced security updates, does it? or at least some sort of super annoying popup that wull remind the user to do security updates04:58
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zerojayaep: No... just the way Linux works keeps that from generally happening anyways.05:00
zelrikriandoI think it might increase still05:00
zelrikriandoat least by a bit05:00
dmj726I've seen Linux viruses.  The developer kindly pointed me to the paper he wrote about it on his website.05:01
zerojayYou'll see scripts attempt to root boxes, but not virii.05:01
aepzerojay: the way linux usually works is that people too fast and to diverse for any virus to spread properly05:01
GeneralAntillesHey, zerojay.05:02
dmj726that and repositories make it harder to infect via warez05:02
zerojayaep: How are you going to infect a computer when you have no access to root? Simple, you don't.05:02
aepnow with phones i'm not sure05:02
zelrikriandoPPA's and stuff can make it happen though05:02
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Hey.05:02
aepzerojay: bugs. (ssh for example)05:02
zerojayAnd that's not a virus.05:03
aepwell or worm. whatever you call it05:03
aepsorry for not using the technical correct word "malicious software"05:03
dmj726Linux can get infected but it is technically harder to spread the infection.05:03
aepdmj726: thats what i am worried about. is it really  if there are thousands of devices now with the exact same software?05:04
zerojayTalk to all the people with tivos out there.05:04
dmj726Won't there be security updates though?05:04
zelrikriandoit's pretty hard to root a phone05:04
dmj726not an n90005:04
aepdmj726: if they are optional you can be pretty sue 90% of users dont do them05:04
dmj726The iphone has a virus05:05
aepwell its still hard i guess. yeah. not sure if its even worth for virus vendors. not sure what their intentions are05:05
CutMeOwnThroatdmj726, shouldn't that be a worm, if it's in something from apple? :)05:05
dmj726Only affects jailbreakers who don't set a password though.05:06
aepwell thats operator error :P05:06
dmj726There are n900 virii already05:06
zelrikriandomost viruses are developed by microsoft05:07
CutMeOwnThroatthere are?05:07
dmj726Getting one would present a challenge though.05:07
kurtaniiiim baack05:07
zelrikriandoCutMeOwnThroat: I am making shit up05:07
CutMeOwnThroatget orf our back05:07
CutMeOwnThroatzelrikriando, I meant the dmj72605:07
dmj726Yeah, just find a debian virus and try it...a considerable feat in itself.05:07
kurtandmj726: indeed05:08
aepdmj726: obviously its trivial to brick your phone by downloading and executing random crap as root05:08
aepmy real concern was related to real worms though :P05:08
Termanaaep - its even easier than that to brick a phone05:08
kurtani'd say thats pretty awesome if you manage to do that05:08
dmj726Tell people to stick to the repos?05:09
Termanaaep - all you do is simply, firstly grab a brick and then THROW that brick at the phone. You have sucessfully bricked your phone.05:09
dmj726If you manage to get a Linux virus these days, you pretty much deserve what you get.05:09
b-man17qwerty12_N810: do you still have the config.mtd file from your N800 by any chance?05:09
CutMeOwnThroatdmj726, how many "debian viruses" are there?05:09
Termanaaep - Probably literally bricked it as well, since I doubt it would work after that05:10
CutMeOwnThroatI mean there's rootkits and things05:10
aepinfinite if you count bogus ones that you have to install yourself.05:10
aeptheres a billion blog bosts with "OMG LINUX VIRUZZ"05:10
dmj726Step 1: Find instructions to write your own virus.05:10
dmj726Step 2: Write the virus.05:10
dmj726Step 3: Exectute the virus.05:10
dmj726You have successfully been infected by a linux virus.05:10
CutMeOwnThroatand there was that infamous un*x worm which forced a shutdown of the internet05:11
kurtanthats the proper way to do it05:11
TermanaI wonder weather they have patched Maemo 5 up so that you can't execute rm -rf / - like Ubuntu has done05:11
zelrikriandoThere is software to find vulnerabilities on any platform now05:11
Termanasudo rm -rf / rather05:11
zelrikriandoIf you find a vulnerability, you write a virus which exploits it05:12
zelrikriandothen you re done05:12
CutMeOwnThroatdmj726, my theory for the lack of linux viruses is, that all the people who would write one learn rather quickly, that they get much more appreciation and positive feedback, if they indeed use their skills in one open-source project or other...05:12
kurtanCutMeOwnThroat: i have downloaded internetz to my 5.25" floppy05:12
kurtanim epic05:12
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aepoh that reminds me of something i wanted to ask anyway:  can you install a different distro on the n900?05:12
CutMeOwnThroatkurtan, impossible, the woman in Utah deleted it!05:12
Termanakurtan - I have the internetz on a little finger long stick05:12
CutMeOwnThroataep, why shouldn't you?05:12
aeppreferable with hildon gui...05:13
dmj726Does mer work yet?05:13
Termanakurtan - minding the fact its a 3G mobile broadband dongle05:13
aepCutMeOwnThroat: because theres some propriatary stuff05:13
CutMeOwnThroataep, you might not be able to get all hardware to work, though...05:13
aepyeah that was my concern :(05:13
dmj726Previous NITs have05:13
dmj726Ubuntu ARM might not let you make calls05:13
Termanadmj726: Yes mer "works". They are still saying its "not ready" yet. But I would wait for .17 anyway, when the new interfaces and Maemo 5 stuff is coming05:13
dmj726I'm probably not going to bother with Mer for a while.05:14
aepi wonder if i could build a shell only phone. heh. propably worth nothing, but nice for the "ITS HACKABLE" feeling05:14
luke-jraep: my N810 is mostly shell only05:15
kurtanuntil then, n900 is the shiat05:15
Termanadmj726: If the TI drivers get released the Nokia N8*0s will get the N900 interface, otherwise they will get a qtablet interface.05:15
Termanadmj726: From mer that is05:15
dmj726I'm not especially concerned about the OMG closed drivers thing...unless the closed drivers don't work, in which case I hate on them for not letting me fix it.05:15
aepluke-jr: well that doesnt have phone functions. the trick would be to call people from the shell :D05:15
luke-jrdmj726: the N810 closed blobs don't work well05:15
dmj726In that case, the TI drivers really should be released05:16
luke-jraep: I plan to do just that when/if I ever find a decent Linux-capable phone05:16
aepi think there is even software to do it. i just wonder how the hardware drivers are coupled to the system05:16
aepluke-jr: well the n900 isnt? :(05:16
luke-jraep: no, N900 is GSM05:16
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luke-jrGSM service is a ripoff05:16
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zelrikriandomeaning what?05:16
Termanaluke-jr: Is GSM not open enough for you?05:17
zelrikriandono 3G?05:17
luke-jrTermana: GSM is just a ripoff :p05:17
luke-jrmeaning $50+/mo just for 5 GB cap05:17
aepoh thats what you mean05:17
zelrikriandosounds like what I have05:17
aepbut thats not the phones fault05:18
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aepbesides it should be capable of voip. is it?05:18
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luke-jraep: well, it *could* support that other SIM thing05:18
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zelrikriando5Go is a lot though05:18
zelrikriandofor a phone at least05:18
luke-jr5 GB is nothing05:18
luke-jrcertainly makes VoIP impossible05:18
aepthats not a phone :(05:18
zelrikriandoI am not sure I even use 1Go05:18
luke-jraep: hm?05:18
aepwell he said 5gb is nothing for a phone05:19
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aepfor a "phone" that has a tiny wap browser maybe05:19
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aepi want to stream live music all day damit! :D05:19
zelrikriandooh yeah05:20
zelrikriandothat might do it05:20
luke-jraep: if N900 supported iDEN...? :p05:20
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TermanaI am on 3G constantly. I pay $60 Australian Dollars for 8GB a month. I've never got up to it. But I don't download heaps of movies and stuff.05:20
aepanyway,  back to the maemo drivers.  are they real linux drivers?  do i get an interface to use as modem?05:20
Termanaaep - I don't think anyone knows yet05:20
aepwhut, but you all have the n90005:21
luke-jrTermana: Boost Mobile has unlimited for $1/day05:21
aepwell lots05:21
zelrikriandoI am stupid05:21
Termanaaep - sorry I thought you were talking about something else :P05:21
luke-jrbut Boost Mobile is iDEN, so their SIM cards won't work in N900 :(05:21
zelrikriandoI should have waited more before getting my new phone05:21
Termanaluke-jr: Boost Mobile in Australia?05:21
aepzelrikriando: you didnt get a n900? D:05:22
luke-jrTermana: Boost Mobile in USA at least05:22
zelrikriandoaep: no05:22
zelrikriandoaep: I didnt know it existed at the time05:22
zelrikriandoaep: actually it didnt exist officially at the time even05:22
Termanaluke-jr: Ahh, that  would be why. We've never had any sort of unlimited consumer plans for ANY internet connection.05:22
aepi've been lurking and waiting for a linux phone the last 5 years05:22
Termanazelrikriando: What did you get? An Android phone?05:23
kurtani guess that means "attack the bed" time05:23
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luke-jrTermana: it's very slow, I think05:26
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luke-jrTermana: but I can have my Asterisk box route via POTS/cell ;)05:27
Termanaluke-jr: Slower than GPRS? When I'm on my Nokia N810 I have my 3G broadband SIM in a 2G phone and bluetooth it to my N810 - so its GPRS speeds.05:28
luke-jrTermana: I think about 128kbps?05:28
zelrikriandoTermana: yup05:28
zelrikriandoTermana: I am a quite disapointed, it's quite unresponsive...maybe it's because I am installing custom roms I am not sure05:29
GeneralAntilleszelrikriando, why an Android phone and not an N900?05:29
Termanaluke-jr: 128kbps is faster than GPRS. GPRS is only dial up speed, its like average 30kbps05:30
zelrikriandoGeneralAntilles: Back in the day, android was the only viable 'open' mobile platform05:30
luke-jrI think I'm wrong :p05:30
zelrikriandothe n900 was anounced maybe 2 or 3 months after I got my phone05:31
Termanazelrikriando: What type of Android phone did you get?05:31
zelrikriandoTermana: the HTC Magic05:31
zelrikriandoI tried a few custom roms on it though05:31
TermanaDoesn't look too bad05:32
TermanaI hate to say it though, but are any of these android phones or the n900/future maemo phones ever really going to take market share back from apple?05:32
zelrikriandoYeah it's ok05:32
zelrikriandoI think Apple is there to stay for a while05:33
zelrikriandobut their market share will saturate05:33
zelrikriandonot everybody likes them05:33
TermanaI hate their coolness factor. Theres just so much cool around them, you almost feel disappointed having a linux phone/mobile internet device05:34
zelrikriandoOne thing they do get right05:35
zelrikriandois responsiveness05:35
zelrikriandothat thing feels like it anticipates your actions05:35
aepwow is the accelerometer really that acurate that you can play games with it?05:35
aepthe quake3 demo is impressive05:35
zelrikriandoI played games with that05:36
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Termanaaep - i thought that would of been a major reason to chuck in an accelerometer05:36
zelrikriandoit's like a Wii-mote05:36
aepi never tryed a weemote05:36
aepbut if this actually works, it would make up for the lack of a d pad05:36
zelrikriandoaep: it really does05:37
aepnice stuff going on.05:37
zelrikriandoand most android devices have a trackball05:37
* aep eyes his old dusty nokia e series05:37
zelrikriandowhich can be potentially uses in games05:37
aepoh yeah well android...05:37
zelrikriandoThe iphone has like 1 bouton05:38
aepi'm not so into technology unless i can hack it05:38
zelrikriandoandroid is quite hackable :p05:38
aepis it?05:38
TermanaI'm worried Maemo will be left in the dust for the popularity of Android05:39
zelrikriandoaep: my phone is rooted, and the kernel changed05:39
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aepTermana: i wouldnt be05:39
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aepnokia still has enough market power to win over google here05:39
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zelrikriandoTermana: maemo seems better than android though05:39
aepthe n900 is even hyped in consumer groups05:40
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aepalso because of maemo, yeah05:40
aeppeople dont know what to do with android05:40
zelrikriandoEven the new Droid05:40
aepthe iphone has a gay^D^D^D i mean fashion factor05:40
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zelrikriandois pretty disapointing05:40
aepandroid can deliver a billion java apps. it won't make it more marketable.  maemo has taken up some serious sell points fro both consumer and geek05:41
aepwhich is imo key to sell any technology05:42
zelrikriandoIf any manufacturer can do something good with it, it s HTC05:42
aepHTC should stay windows mobile imo. its a good market for them05:42
zelrikriandoaep: Android is not Java only05:42
luke-jrzelrikriando: since when?05:42
zelrikriandoluke-jr: since it s C++ too05:42
aepyeah i know, but they're all hyped about the fact thats its so java optimized05:42
luke-jraep: HTC should port Linux to one of their good phones05:43
aepwhich is totally useless, as it covers only a limited portion of geeks05:43
aepluke-jr: or that, but thats a drastical change05:43
aepand if any linux, they're going to do a cripled one like android05:43
luke-jrI don't care, as long as Linux is ported05:43
luke-jrjust un-patch Android and use it w/ Gentoo...05:44
aepit should in fact run. the hardware is not that new05:44
luke-jraep: by good phone, I mean Touch Pro 205:44
luke-jrwhich is pretty new05:44
aepoh. dont know that one05:44
zelrikriandoAndroid is pretty far away from the spirit of Linux though05:44
zelrikriandoGoogle really changed stuff05:44
luke-jrzelrikriando: Android is at least partly in mainline now :/05:44
luke-jrunder staging05:44
aepwell if it runs the kernel, you can likely hack it to run a gnu/linux distro which is good05:45
aepbut i'd be to lazy05:45
luke-jraep: I want to run KDE 4.305:45
luke-jrwith a shell script to use the phone05:45
aepwell to each their own05:46
aepn900 should be able to do that05:46
zelrikriandoI dont like KDE05:46
luke-jraep: N900 is too closed for me :p05:46
luke-jrand again, GSM05:46
aephm i wonder if it can run xmonad :D05:46
aepwhats closed on it? i dont have it yet05:47
zelrikriandoone thing though with Android, is google sync05:47
zelrikriandoif you dont have a google account05:47
zelrikriandothe phone wont do shit05:47
luke-jraep: battery charger, phone stack, 3D, etc05:47
aep3d is opengl es. what more open do you need?05:47
luke-jraep: it's a blob05:47
aepand who cares about the gdm driver as long as you get a real model device05:47
aepwell i don't at least05:48
luke-jraep: the entire point of GNU/Linux is a free OS05:48
aepi'm not a gnuist.05:48
luke-jrmight as well run WinCE then05:48
aepa little open wins over closed05:48
Termanaluke-jr: Have you ever considered contacting RMS and asking to be his side-kick. Fighting closed source crime.05:49
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luke-jrI don't especially like RMS.05:49
aepi run closed source nvidia drivers on desktop happily. i'd buy amd if it was open, but since it's not, i'm ok with something that works05:49
luke-jraep: AMD/ATi *is* open05:49
aepsince when? :D05:49
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luke-jraep: years and years ago05:50
luke-jrmaybe even a decade05:50
luke-jrthough for a while there it was only their oldest cards05:50
aepwell i only checked for the high end cards and you needed a very bad closed source driver a year ago05:50
luke-jrsure, they have a blob that supports their Digital Restrictions Management, but just 3D accel works fine w/ open drivers05:50
aepon the other hand the nvidia driver was closed too but at least works fine05:51
aephm does that mean ati stopped sucking?05:51
luke-jra year ago the newest stuff was probably beta05:51
luke-jraep: personally, the Radeon 9200 worked just fine until the new stuff was usable05:52
luke-jrI'm sure probably better than the N900's GLES05:52
aepand its open ?  nice05:52
luke-jr9200 has been open since at least before X.org05:53
aepi dont know which is which.  havent looked into ati for over a year05:53
aepi care about games, and the open source drivers i know have inferiour to no 3d accel05:54
zelrikriandoI am not even sure anybody I know use ati05:54
aepwell, had05:54
luke-jr9200 would be OpenGL 1.4 generation05:54
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luke-jrOn September 12, 2007, AMD released documentation for the RV630 (Radeon HD 2600 PRO and Radeon HD 2600 XT) and M56 (Radeon Mobility X1600) chips for open source driver development, for its strategic open source driver development initiative05:55
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dmj726so pidgin starts eating tremendous cpu if you leave the a key pressed for too long.06:07
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pupnikdoes flash have access to webcam on n900?06:09
pupnik  trying this06:09
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pupnikdont look like it..  another big hole06:11
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leonzhao1did anyone install maemo sdk? i try to change the language , but failed06:31
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pupnikgoogle's nokia mobile client search is broken08:08
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pupnikwow sdl game screen updates also work in clutter app overview! - on an emu from diablo....08:27
pupnikway cool08:27
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dmj7261zaheerm: Have you considered adding a search feature to zoutube?08:29
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dmj7261Would it be possible to edit gtk widgits using clutter?09:33
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dmj7261I mean place/animate them09:56
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BluesLeeis it possible to tv out the content of a vnc viewer session (n900 to pc via wifi) on a n900 to the tv?10:29
BluesLeeor do i get a black window?10:30
dmj7261I don't have a device, but my understanding is that it outputs exactly the same thing to both screens10:31
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BluesLeeif its fast this a good option for me to tv out pc content to my tv otherwise i would need at least a 10m cable10:35
dmj7261yeah, although keep in mind that you only get 480 line output.10:35
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BluesLeethats correct10:37
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dmj7261I was very impressed by the tv out ability10:38
BluesLeei also10:38
dmj7261Actually there is a very limited number of things that haven't impressed me.10:38
BluesLeei thought of getting me the wii but now i will get me two controllers and use emulators10:39
BluesLeeemulators for snes etc10:39
BluesLeethat would be enough fun10:39
dmj7261and you get a phone out of the deal!10:40
BluesLeei only worry about ovi maps and the battery life10:40
BluesLeethe latter isnt a real problem as i dont want to be online all the time, i dont use 3g10:41
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BluesLeei thought of an app which downloads me automatically some content (news, emails) if i am at home, that would be enough10:42
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dmj7261I worry about the lack of usb host mode, the scratchability of the screen, and a few other things.10:42
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BluesLeei thought usb host is possible10:42
dmj7261Hmm...not sure of one.10:42
Stskeepsso far no scratches and i treat my n900 mean10:42
dmj7261It *may* be possible10:43
BluesLeedmj7261: use a screen protector10:43
dmj7261It was a community hack on prior tablets, but nobody has done it yet.10:43
BluesLeedmj7261: i always use a protector (zaurus models, freerunner etc) and i am fine10:44
BluesLeedmj7261: the lack of usb host mode would be very bad10:44
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BluesLeedmj7261: if all the hackers out there didnt succeeded yet its a bad sign10:45
dmj7261There is only a small fraction of the community with the device10:45
Stskeepsno usb host on n900. afaik.10:46
Stskeepscharging/usb specification issue10:46
BluesLeeStskeeps: yeah,
Stskeepspeople should look into sdio maybe though10:52
microlithDoes the microSD slot spec even support it?10:53
dmj7261Anyone here a clutter guru with respect to maemo?10:55
Stskeepsmicrolith: yes it does10:56
microliththat might be of some use then, if people are willing to punch holes in their battery covers10:57
dmj7261perhaps have a custom cover made?10:57
microliththat's what dremel tools are for10:58
BluesLeedo we have a gps app like tangogps or navit on the n900 yet?11:00
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StskeepsBluesLee: there is some but wouldnt mind seeing tangogps11:06
BluesLeeStskeeps: with ovi maps routing is only possible for registered users?11:07
BluesLeeStskeeps: and for pedestrian ...11:08
Stskeepsno registered users stuff in ovi maps11:08
Stskeepsi dont like ovi maps personally11:08
BluesLeei want to use osm11:08
Stskeepssame.. there is gpxview and emerillion too11:09
BluesLeei dont know them, routing included?11:09
Stskeepsi just want maemo mapper11:09
BluesLeeporting navit to n900 shouldnt be a big problem11:10
Stskeepsfamous last words11:11
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JaffaMorning, all11:15
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Stskeepsmorn jaffa11:16
CorsacArrivage prévu Samedi 28 Novembre11:24
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TermanaThe Android room is a rather quite room on freenode :P11:42
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Stskeepscompared to maemo11:44
TermanaStskeeps - yep, especially compared to Maemo :P11:44
thuxmaybe google doesn't give devices like nokia?11:45
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Termanathux - What? How does that have anything to do with the popularity of the Maemo room vs the Android room?11:45
cehtehhow many people are in #android?11:46
thuxmaybe people dev easily if got device?11:46
Termanacehteh - 50811:46
cehtehseen :)11:46
Stskeepsthux: #maemo was active even before devices were given out11:47
thuxok then i don't understand why11:47
Termanathux - There are Android devices out, so I don't understand what this "no device" thing is about11:48
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cehtehmy first n900 part arrived already today :P11:48
mikhasmaemo is simply cooler, that is why11:48
* cehteh ordered a display protector foil11:48
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cehtehstill waiting for the device :P11:48
thuxboth are linux11:48
Corsacnot really ;p11:49
SpeedEvilThey are both linux.11:49
mikhasI dont like all linuxen, either.11:49
SpeedEvilThey aren't both gnu/linux11:49
cehtehlinux yes, gnu no11:49
TermanaThey both have a linux kernel11:49
SpeedEvilThough you can just about have a non-gnu 'normal' linux system11:49
cehtehthey are not even a 'normal' system11:49
SpeedEvilyes, far from a normal linux.11:50
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thuxif you do diff is there lot of dfferences?11:50
cehtehbtw does andoid use an xserver or framebuffer?11:50
CorsacSpeedEvil: even the kernel is crippled11:50
TermanaPersonally, I favour having a normal linux system available rather than having to have apps run on top of a CHANGED java runtime11:51
cehtehthux: yes very much andoid is all in a crippled java vm11:51
cehtehits a complete different platform than any common linux system you know11:51
cehtehthe only thing is that they needed some kernel and used linux for that11:51
thuxbut both run same devices?11:51
cehtehandoid programs are specially rigged java programs11:52
cehtehbecause of the linux kernel you can put an andoid platform on same or similar hardware like maemo11:52
TermanaAnyone think maybe they just used Linux as a part-marketing scheme part-build-on-top-of-a-already-built-foundation-cause-we-can't-be-stuffed-to-make-something-new?11:53
cehtehbut the platform becomes very different11:53
SpeedEvilTermana: no.11:53
SpeedEvilTermana: I think they utterly don't care about linux as linux.11:53
cehtehporting android programs to maemo would be a complete rewrite11:53
SpeedEvilTermana: The number of people that buy it becasue it's linux are - if the project goes right - statistically insignificant11:53
SpeedEvilcehteh: well - no.11:54
cehtehwell almost11:54
SpeedEvilcehteh: It would be a android API emulator and JVM11:54
cehtehno such thing yet for maemo11:54
TermanaEither way, Google are just taking Linux shiz and crippling it. First Android and now of course they want to release a linux OS that is JUST a browser.11:54
mikhaswould programs written for android run in a normal JVM?11:54
Termanamikhas - doubtful11:54
cehtehis the android jvm free software?11:54
cehtehSpeedEvil: i rather wonder if one could run a android in parallel to maemo .. but i dont really care much11:55
mikhasTermana, for most people that might be enough, a browser-based OS. See what the game consoles come with, and appearently the consumers are happy.11:55
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cehtehmikhas: no the bytecode is different .. and the sourcecode depends on the android apis11:55
TermanaYou know Android isn't all free software either, IIRC, things like the built in Gmail app are closed etc. Not saying its an entirely bad thing, afterall Maemo has closed bits, but they are touting it at totally open11:56
cehtehandroid is a platform on its own11:56
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mikhasdifferent bytecode. scary11:56
Termanait as*11:56
cehtehwell maemo has some closed blobs too to be fair11:56
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SpeedEvilThe only more open phone (well - not quite - but practically) was the OpenMoko Freerunner.11:57
Termanacehteh - "Not saying its an entirely bad thing, afterall Maemoo has closed bits" I think you missed that part :P lol11:57
cehtehthe firmware of the n900 camera and the dsp are binary blobs or?11:58
TermanaEven with all of this stated, and my liking for Maemo more than Android, I think Android is going to be more popular than Maemo11:59
cehtehtechnically there is no reason for that, i would like to hack on the camera firmware11:59
Stskeepscehteh: not entirely sure about camera fw. dsp yes11:59
cehtehwell maybe one can fry the flash leds when doing things wrong :P but iirc these are already exported11:59
Stskeepscehteh: look at kernel driver i guess11:59
cehtehStskeeps: i am only guessing too, i dont have the device yet and didnt looked at the kernel sources11:59
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dmj7261I would hope that the camera driver is open to improvement.12:05
ohmyAnyone know if exist any benchmark to measuer scheduling time for thread and process ? i mean the time spent but the kernel to switch between x threads and x process ?12:07
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dmj7261By the way, with regard to Google and Android being rather closed and incompatible.  I suspect that there are a significant number (can't say how many) of Google employees who *do* care about openness.  However, Google is a slave to its business model.  This is not a justification for the shortcomings of Android, but just a thought before people say that the people at Google don't care about openness.12:09
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dmj7261Hmmm...not sure if there is such a tool.  It would be handy of course.12:10
suihkulokkiohmy: lmbench has lat_ctx12:10
SpeedEvilPeople caring is irrelevant.12:10
wazdhello maemo12:10
SpeedEvilIt's the right people caring.12:10
dmj7261I stand corrected.12:10
SpeedEvilAnd they don't.12:10
ohmysuihkulokki, thank you12:10
dmj7261SpeedEvil: I never said it was relevant to the Android platform.12:10
dmj7261I'm sure some of them don't.12:11
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suihkulokkiohmy: np. if you find any interesting results/improvements please publish them :)12:11
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dmj7261But I would bet money that there *are* Android developers out there somewhere who do care about openness.12:12
dmj7261That said, they might just be codemonkeys in the grand Android scheme.12:12
dmj7261I can't speak for Google as a whole.12:13
ohmysuihkulokki, sure i'll do12:13
dmj7261And no, I'm not an Android user or developer and don't particularly want an Android phone.12:14
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mikhasit's ok, even if you *had* an android phone, #maemo still loves you =)12:15
tekonivelsuihkulokki: hyvä nikki! :)12:15
cehtehis there no git for the maemo kernel?12:15
dmj7261Just saying that calling people's motivations into question isn't productive.12:15
Termanadmj7261: Tell the truth - your lusting for the fashion statement Motorola Droid12:15
tekonivelgood to see that the gnu/linux -issue was mentioned in the backlog :)12:15
Stskeepsno, is best bet12:15
qwerty12_N810mikhas: No we don't. We head for the guns =)12:16
Termanadmj7261: j/k :P12:16
TermanaI have to admit though, the Droid is rather stylish imo12:16
dmj7261I would have been jumping up and down for the Droid 6 months ago.12:16
dmj7261It does have a certain visual appeal.12:16
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dmj7261I ran across someone who had one a few days ago.  it was nice except for the autofocus and the keyboard and touch aspect of the screen.12:17
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dmj7261(speaking strictly to the hardware, not the Android bits12:18
TermanaAnd Motorola too - remember the Razr craze? (or maybe not, maybe I just thought there was a Razr craze)12:18
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dmj7261I kept having a hard time getting it to do things until I realized that the fingernail didn't do anything.12:18
cehtehi wonder what nokia saies when you port maemo to motorola hardware :P12:19
dmj7261There was a Razr craze.12:19
cehtehmaemo on iphone .. hehe :P12:19
dmj7261They say they would rather you port mer12:19
SpeedEvilMameo includes closed source bits - that presumably they don't license to be distributed.12:19
Termanadmj7261: I wonder if they will be able to get the same momentum of the Razr as with the Droid. So far it looks like its sort of going that way-ish12:20
SpeedEvilSo you can't legally distribute it anyway12:20
dmj7261The Razr craze screwed moto over in the years after because it made them just think about thin.12:20
cehtehare there nokia officials sometimes in this channel?12:20
SpeedEvilThere are maemo staff.12:20
Stskeepsbut i doubt any official statements would be made here :P12:20
SpeedEvilI would doubt that anyone with decisionmaking authority on the project is lurking.12:20
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lbt"Mer is excellent"  <<< OFFICIAL!12:21
cehtehSpeedEvil: on the other hand, if they want to keep a dent on the market the have to open their platform, one-vendor platforms never worked well12:21
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TermanaI wouldn't bother even trying to "port" Maemo. Just do Mer. I'm not sure weather Nokia would be all to happy with other phone companies doing it though12:21
SpeedEvilcehteh: yes. That'll be why apple has such a tiny slice of the audio player market.12:21
dmj7261I think Nokia would object to (at least widespread) distribution of Maemo's proprietary bits on non Nokia hardware, but Mer is fair game12:21
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TermanaSpeedEvil - Dun dun chh?12:22
SpeedEvilOr the original palm12:22
dmj7261Apple did do a good job getting lots of people to buy their stuff12:22
SpeedEvilwhich was _hugely_ popular12:22
prometoyshi, I want to file a bug against "End current task". which is the correct component?12:23
SpeedEvilAnd mostly closed during the time it became popular12:23
dmj72612 of my suitemates have an iToych12:23
Stskeepsprometoys: desktop possibly12:23
Stskeepsor system UI12:23
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tekonivelopenneess is no freeway to success in smartphones. fostering, cherishing and gardening a developer community is12:24
dmj7261openness is simply a path to nurturing that community.12:24
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dmj7261a pretty good one in my book12:24
prometoysStskeeps, thanks12:25
tekonivelalso, i would say a lot of the smartphone market is quite saturated already; ppl who are inclined to get a smartphone (you can call them "internet in your pocket" if u wish), already have an apple product12:25
tekoniveldmj7261: t though12:25
tekoniveldmj7261: but apple did it, with fascism12:25
TermanaIf you read Engadget they seem to be huge Apple fans, but the App Store rejections seem to be getting the best of them12:25
tekoniveldmj7261: but surely openness is *a* path to success12:25
dmj7261Openness is a path to success, or can be if done right12:26
TermanaIf theres an app store rejection and its not featured on Engadget, strike me down!12:26
dmj7261Whatever way to success you take, you have to do it right.12:26
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tekonivelalso many sorts of openneess exist. f.ex. even if the platform is open source, but hard to install programs on, it's not open12:26
dmj7261A lot of times an early platform leader will be closed, but open (loosely defined) competitors often have the advantage as the market matures.12:27
tekoniveldmj7261: yeah, exactly, but there are also external factors, f.ex. what the competitors are doing (or saying they are doing) and whta the market is like12:27
dmj7261Windows could be considered an open *platform*12:27
TermanaLets face it - the consumer doesn't really care weather its open or not. They care about things like "coolness" - this is why Apple products are popular. It's also why the Droid seems to be becoming popular, it looks sleek, stylish and cool.12:28
tekonivelpersonally i'm doubtful Maemo will fly. i hope i'm wrong, since i'm getting one! :)12:28
tekonivelTermana: amen12:28
dmj7261Worst case scenario with Maemo, we get a couple years with a nice device that has a small, but high-quality selection of apps.12:29
tekonivelTermana: the way is see it, maemo 5 is a step to co-develop (community+nokia together) maemo (6) to be "cool"12:29
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Termanatekonivel: Lets hope so. But Nokia needs to do it quickly.12:30
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dmj7261It wouldn't surprise me if the Maemo 5 device(s) have more geek appeal than many/most of the Maemo 6 ones.12:30
tekoniveldmj7261: i can imagine a worse case: a few years of tacky apps that don't integrate well, only have nerd appeal and don't properly work12:30
tekoniveldmj7261: the way i see it, that's exactly nokeas plan12:30
Stskeepstekonivel: actually m6 is the co-development one in many areas i think12:30
tekoniveldmj7261: to make maemo5 interesting for nerdies to make it intereting to real people12:30
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tekoniveli mean the m5->m6 transition is the most important development-window for the platform.12:31
tekonivelbut i haven't thought of what comes after m612:31
dmj7261I'm seeing a number of apps that will work well *for me* already.12:31
TermanaThe unfortunately thing is its a bit chicken-and-egg - to get developers you need users, and you guessed it, to get users you need developers.12:31
tekoniveloh well, speculatio speculation12:31
tekonivelmikhas: lol i guess!12:32
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Jaffalo crashanddie12:32
dmj7261Yes, the old bootstrapping issue.12:32
dmj7261I think that's why the gnu aspect of maemo is so important.12:32
tekonivelTermana: i think the nerdies have been doing (quite) fine without users with n770 and n8[01]012:32
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dmj7261since it makes it much easier to get more effective developer hours.12:33
TermanaStskeep - joy to the world that Mer will hopefully be able to bring all this goodness to us old device owners and owners of other devices12:33
dmj7261via easyish ports12:33
dmj7261The iphone only has 2,000 times the apps as OS200812:33
StskeepsTermana: just as long as people realize we're not just dying at the point we have fremantle on n8x0 :P12:33
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dmj7261make that 200 actually12:34
tekoniveldmj7261: are they're developed for the platform. porting can be a horrible idea too, not neecssarily good12:34
tekonivelesp. the UI12:34
dmj72612000 is the ratio for maemo 5 apps12:34
dmj7261I consider reworked ui to be an essential element of a phone port.12:34
* Stskeeps is happy as long as libs are easily ported.12:35
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Stskeepsthen it's a matter of modifying View in any MVC app12:35
dmj7261Who would want to do a java rewrite of Gstreamer when you can just port the original?12:35
tekonivelStskeeps: yeah libs are importaant!!12:35
mikhasoh yeah, just rewrite the UI, it's easy =p12:35
Termanadmj7261: If you feel like paying for a device that denies you the right to certain applications based on stupid reasons and having a ratio of 1:200 fart apps, you can freely buy an iPhone.12:35
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tekonivelmikhas: re/design/!12:36
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dmj7261I don't want an ifart12:36
dmj7261I mean iphone.12:36
TermanaThats right you release enough gas already. You stinky man12:36
Termanaj/k :P12:36
tekonivelTermana: "rights" are not very importatnt to many ppl12:36
tekoniveli know it's sad12:36
tekonivelbut i think that's true12:37
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* Stskeeps ponders idly the nokia buying palm rumour12:37
dmj726199% of the iphone apps aren't worth considering really.12:37
Termanatekonivel: I realise that, but shhh your lessening my argument to dmj726112:37
TermanaStskeeps: I wonder what they would DO with all the Palm stuff?12:37
tekonivelTermana: oops sorry. let's all get an N900!12:37
Termanatekonivel: lol :P12:38
* tekonivel sure is getting one12:38
Stskeepstekonivel: palm pre is omap312:38
dmj7261Okay, I'll go for this n900 thing?12:38
StskeepsTermana: and some of the expertise is probably useful12:38
tekoniveldmj7261: get it or /leave. this is fanboi-central!! ;)12:38
tekonivelterveisett kaikille fanipojille ja fanitytöille!12:38
TermanaStskeeps: Sure, but what would they do with all the currently developed software, just dump it? Or continue the Palm line?12:39
dmj7261I'll reserve my right to criticize all of the n900/Maemo faults thank you very much!12:39
Stskeepsdmj7261: we complain about those all te time12:39
tekoniveldmj7261: i'm afraid i must reserve that too, and continue to live in love+hate -relation wwith my personal device12:39
* tekonivel at m has an N9512:39
dmj7261Apple fanboys don't do that critique thing much.12:39
tekonivels/at m/atm/12:39
tekoniveldmj7261: tru fanbois!12:40
dmj7261I will admit to being an n900 fan, but it's not the holy grail.12:40
dmj7261It is the first smartphone that looked remotely worthwhile though.12:41
tekoniveli don't think i've ever heard an iFan say a single bad word about their iPdoducts... scary, really!12:41
tekoniveldmj7261: the same12:41
dmj7261It's not a limitation, it's a feature Apple designed to make it easy to use.12:41
mikhastekonivel, I once did. He said the iTouch wasn't expensive enough. Now everyone would have one.12:41
qwerty12_N810tekonivel: They are now a part of The Cult of Apple. There is no going back.12:41
tekonivelmikhas: lol xD12:41
tekonivelmikhas: you cannot blame the n900 on those same grounds12:42
mikhascertainly not =)12:42
dmj7261The big problem until now is that smarphones have always looked like tiny computers more than phones to me, and as such I compare them to my desktop.12:42
* tekonivel is quite happy with the asus eeepc 90112:43
tekonivelwhat comes to true mobile computimg12:43
dmj7261Rather, I expect a smartphone to pass my standards for computers, whereas the dumbphones seem more like a toaster or a microwave or a printer.12:44
tekonivelbut oh well, i want candy on my personal phone, but (even remotely) useful candy12:44
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dmj7261I like my eee pc 90012:44
TermanaI have an EEE PC 701SD (srsly 701SD not the 701)12:44
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TermanaI like it, but for me - its WAY too bulky to be carrying around everywhere12:44
TermanaMy N810 just gets stashed in my pocket12:45
TermanaIts magic, really12:45
dmj7261yeah, my eee 900 only fits in some of my pockets.12:45
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dmj7261and it's a snug fit in those cases.12:45
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tekoniveldmj7261: good point  about {dumb,smart}phones12:46
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tekonivelTermana: my eeepc is with me at all times12:46
tekoniveldmj7261: but i wish n900 was larger12:46
tekoniveli'd be more than willing to invest pocket-space for screen+battery12:47
dmj7261Of course, being a linux user, my standards for openness on smartphones are very tough.12:47
tekoniveldmj7261: is vrms ported to maemo already?12:47
dmj7261I wouldn't mind a 4 inch screen on a maemo phone.12:47
tekoniveli'd assume it runs without porting, though12:47
Termanatekonivel: If I could take my EEE PC with me everywhere, I would of never bought a N810 (and I only just brought it recently)12:47
tekoniveldmj7261: personally i'd love a 8" touchscreen+handsfree12:48
TermanaPlus, no one gives it a second thought when I take a N810 into the toilet12:48
Termanalol :P12:48
tekoniveldmj7261: virtual richard m. stallman, a daemon that nags if you have non-free (in the stallmannian sense) programs installed12:48
dmj7261Stallman would complain about maemo.12:49
mikhasI dont think so.12:49
mikhaswe should ask12:49
dmj7261It has non-free software.12:49
Stskeepsstallman would complain about mer.12:49
Stskeepsdue to our attitude towards HW blobs12:49
qwerty12_N810As soon as you install it, on a fresh N900, you'd be nagged.12:49
tekonivelTermana: i got a n810 to see if i can live without a lapto. i cannot. the netbook is quite perfect (but could be better still, and will be in the future)12:49
tekonivelrms always companins. i love him12:49
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TermanaStallman probably doesn't shop at any shops that use non-free software for their checkout system12:50
dmj7261I don't care about hw blobs if they work well and are distributable.  However, drivers should be open whenever possible.12:50
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* tekonivel <3 rms12:51
dmj7261RMS does have many useful things to say, though I think his ways aren't practical for many of us.12:51
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Stskeepsdmj7261: we also accept that some blobs may only be distributable to certain device types, but that's about the limit :P12:51
Corsacdoes rms write any code nowadays?12:51
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dmj7261I very much agree with him concerning the "benefits" of software patents.12:52
dmj7261I don't know if RMS does code these days or not.12:52
SpeedEvilhardware is as bad in some cases.12:52
SpeedEvilThere are some really bad patents granted.12:52
dmj7261The only use of a hw blob is to run on said hardware.12:52
TermanaCorsac: Obviously so, have you SEEN his beard? Obviously he sits in his basement coding all day.12:52
dmj7261I have seen his beard12:53
dmj7261From 5 feet away, it's huge.12:53
CorsacTermana: he gives conferences, but besides that...12:53
Corsacdmj7261: yeah12:53
Corsache signed my gpg key, i was scared12:54
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RobertH[AU]Hey everyone. I just installd the SDK for a second time, but the browser doesn't have a network connection. i can wget stuff from the scratchbox terminal, but no luck with the browser. Any ideas as to what is wrong?12:55
RobertH[AU]I didn't have this issue before12:55
Stskeepscheck /etc/resolv.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf12:55
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RobertH[AU]Stskeeps: ok will do, thank you12:56
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tekonivelbugger, emacs died on me12:57
RobertH[AU]Stskeeps: ahhh thank you very much. It is working now :)12:57
tekonivelanyhow, about rms, i was bragging about this
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qwerty12_N810tekonivel: It detected there were people taking the piss out of rms and activated its protections accordingly12:58
dmj7261fortunately you can reprogram it using your super GPL powers.12:59
tekonivelqwerty12_N810: that must be it12:59
tekonivelgtta leave now13:00
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dmj7261Is there a jamendo app for maemo?13:02
dmj7261because a player app for jamendo (analogous to the zoutube client for youtube) would be insanely cool13:07
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dmj7261it could even be able to integrate with transmission if available to download it.13:08
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Jaffaanybody seen a fremantle port of Vagalume yet?13:09
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Jaffalo konttori13:11
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: Not sure how is going to work, TBH, considering banned any unofficial mobile phone clients from using their service last year...13:11
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Jaffaqwerty12_N810: The N900 isn't a phone - it's a mini netbook with a SIM card13:12
JaffaI don't want to use it on 3G, just wifi13:12
saLOUthi all, i just got an garage account. Is it really ment to register manually to the forum? is there any connection between the accounts?13:13
wazdqwerty12_N810: eeeeek :D13:13
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: It'd be you'd need to convince, not me. I'm sure they wouldn't see the difference, but I'm just speculating here :-)13:13
JaffasaLOUt: you can link them, but they are separate13:13
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: indeed13:13
saLOUtJaffa: thx13:14
qwerty12_N810wazd: What? I see nothing wrong there... :p13:14
Termanawazd, I don't think you mean eeeeek, I think you mean WHOOOO! *holds nuts*13:14
TermanaNokia N900, its not my phone, its just a phone and you know I'm not an owner13:15
wazdqwerty12_N810: I had to make this shot cause I can't hold all these properties in my head :D13:15
wazdqwerty12_N810: you've done a nice job anyway :)13:16
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saLOUtJaffa: ok. Do you know if there is somewhere a how-to installing the recent sdk on an non-debian 64bit linux? (i have opensuse, rpm-based)13:17
qwerty12_N810wazd: It is rather long, indeed. Finger-friendly tabs would do some good there :)13:17
JaffasaLOUt: Isn't it included in the instructions?13:18
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RST38hsaLOUt: 1) uninstall your current Linux 2) install 32bit Ubuntu Linux 3) follow with the normal instructions13:20
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saLOUtRST38h: no way, i need my linux for working, too.13:28
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RST38hUsing >4GB databases?13:30
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SpeedEvil32 bit linux can cope with >4G files for some time now13:35
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RST38hSpeed: If you are actively using databases, you want 64bit OS though13:37
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RST38hOtherwise, there is absolutely no reason13:38
SpeedEvilif using beeeg ones, then yes.13:39
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Andy80hi all13:59
Andy80isn't possible to upgrade to the new firmware for N900 even for people who don't have Windows :P ???14:00
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JaffaAndy80: It's not possible to upgrade on Windows either AIUI14:02
JaffaIt just looks like it.14:03
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Andy80Jaffa: what? Aniello just did it yesterday14:03
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BluesLeedeb fremantle/extras free non-free14:06
BluesLeefor extras is correct or not?14:06
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BluesLeei get a "14:06
BluesLeeErr fremantle/extras/free Packages14:06
BluesLee  404 Not Found14:06
Stskeepsdeb fremantle free non-free14:08
JaffaAndy80: According to Peter@Maemo and danielwilms you need a different kind of flash if you have a pre-prod device for this update. However, if anidel can point to a change in something (such as the version of some package) rather than just the "About product" panel, that'd be interesting14:08
* qwerty12_N810 doesn't buy it. Considering he downloaded the flash image from NSU and had no problems flashing it14:09
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: probably a fix in nolo or similar that needed to be done to act OK with NSU :P14:10
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Anidelhi there14:12
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Andy80is it possible to just download the image from NSU?14:12
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: dpkg -l hildon-desktop?14:12
moo__Andy80: I think no... NSU was made more bit tamper proof when people started to root Symbian devices14:13
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: I've got  1:2.2.100-28+0 on 41-10.14:13
Anideldid you guys have luck updating via NSU?14:13
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: is the tool you use 'public' btw?14:13
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: 1:2.2.100-29.014:13
Jaffawhere is the download on NSU?14:13
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: 1:2.2.100-29.014:13
Anidel1:2.2.100-31+0 here14:13
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: interesting14:13
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Yes, check your favourite GSM warez site14:14
AnidelJaffa: select a phone and it'll show you the NSU download14:14
qwerty12_N810Bollocks, this is older, then14:14
JaffaAnidel: select a phone *where*?14:14
Stskeepsmy 42-11 is +31 too14:15
Anidelno idea.. I just did google for nokia nsu14:15
Anidelit shows a page14:15
Anidelhang on14:15
Stskeepser, -3114:15
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qwerty12_N810Looks like I'll be redownloading another image, later...14:15
JaffaAnidel: N900 not included.14:16
Anidelwhat are package could we check? it did flash it yesterday.. it told me 42-11 was available and I had 41-10 .. it downloaded 161Mb of stuff and sent it to the n90014:16
AnidelI know.. choose something else14:16
JaffaAnidel: Anything?14:16
Anidellike E6114:17
Jaffaand then reboot connected via USB?14:17
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Anidelin the end it's only one software.. dunno why they ask you to choose a phone.. may be older ones require something different14:17
Anidelinstall it.. it'll ask you to reboot, we didn't.14:17
Anidelrun it and it asks you to connect the phone14:18
JaffaCommunity seems to have got a lot worse at sharing info :p14:18
Anidelconnected the n900 while on14:18
Anidelit detected it and its firmware, checked online noticed a new one14:18
StskeepsJaffa: probably cos of SnR on being too high14:18
Anideldownloaded, and rebooted the n900, sent the new image and restarted14:18
Anidelit asked language and everything again14:18
Anidelso it did flash it14:19
Andy80I've to relogin...14:19
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JaffaStskeeps: I'd've expected something useful on -users or pmo14:19
Anidelor at leat did flash something and did change something if the about now says 42-1114:20
qwerty12_N810Oh, -users is actually worth subscribing to, now?14:20
StskeepsJaffa: i unsubscribed from -users personally14:20
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: +114:20
Anidelthere's not that much traffic anyway14:20
* Stskeeps ponders if there's a project in grabbing fremantle gitorious packages building them and pushing them out on a repository for people to upgrade from14:21
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: It'll be hard to manage with SSU, and all...14:22
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Stskeepswouldn't be bad to have SSU-BleedingEdge line to be able to follow ;p14:23
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* Stskeeps glances at the blinking cursor in his thesis document14:25
BluesLeecan someone help, i cant install packages from extras in the sdk, source.list looks like
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BluesLeePackage supertux is not available, but is referred to by another package.14:26
BluesLeeThis may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or14:26
BluesLeeis only available from another source14:26
BluesLeeW: Duplicate sources.list entry fremantle/free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_fremantle_free_binary-i386_Packages)14:26
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wazdqwerty12_N810: <- muhaha :)14:32
wazdqwerty12_N810: you can combine these two and produce a transmissin TP roll :D14:32
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cehtehn910 will have a crank to scroll through preferences :)14:33
qwerty12_N810There is only one solution for this: Nokia must produce a 21" display and I must make it support portrait mode14:33
qwerty12_N810+on the next Maemo-running device14:34
cehtehmhm using the accelerometer for scrolling would be cool14:34
cehteh2D scrolling by moving the device up/down/left/right14:35
pupnik_or tilting14:35
* Stskeeps wishes fremantle could do 180 degree rotation14:35
pupnik_but blech14:35
cehtehnah moving .. just to make you look like an idiot at the tram stop :)14:35
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Are you a... lefty?14:36
pupnik_bounce does that already14:36
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i have my charger on my right14:36
pupnik_got my bluetooth game controller - zeemote14:36
cehtehlefty .. 180° ... huh .. hey that means keyboard on top :P14:36
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: but no, i'm right-handed14:36
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: *sighs*14:36
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bymoorHi! Anyone using flipclock on N900? It dies on startup. :(14:54
bymoorerror is "could not create pipeline, no element "dspmp3sink""14:54
pupnik_  cool games and usb stuff (zeemote driver)14:55
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crashanddiehey Jaffa14:57
pupnik_bymoor - clock on n900 is also in upper left of desktop :)14:58
bymoorpupnik_: yep I know that.. :DD But the thing is that I would like to wake on radio.14:59
javispedropupnik_: harbaum made a special version of drnoksnes with zeemote support14:59
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pupnik_hey javis, running drnok on n900 - wow ... slow!14:59
javispedroyeah, software scaling15:00
pupnik_the diablo build runs on fremantle and you see screen updates in app overview mode15:00
pupnik_ty! i try to ask til15:00
javispedroyeah, the diablo builds work but AFAIU trying to enable Xsp blacks the screen out15:00
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* javispedro needs hardware and time :(15:01
pupnik_what do you think os a good way to update screen in maemo5?  std sdl?15:01
javispedropupnik_: not sure, I have _a lot_ of candidates right now15:02
RST38hpupnik: GtkImage does it for me15:02
pupnik_right - ty15:02
RST38hpupnik: In full screen mode, I directly bang /dev/fb015:02
crashanddieis anyone trying to do IP over FM?15:02
RST38hIt is faster, but I guess ou can achieve the same result with Xv15:02
pupnik_how can i force download a .deb from extras with apt-get?  yeemote fails on dependency15:02
javispedroconsidering: Xshm (what SDL uses), omapfb, painting to a clutter actor (what seems will be the best default)15:03
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Banging device nodes? Man...15:03
Anidelif you guys try the BBC iPlayer inside MicroB can you play videos?15:03
javispedroand even patching hildon-desktop to get what I'll call "HildonRemoteFBO"15:03
crashanddieAnidel, PM15:03
* RST38h winks innocently15:03
javispedroand then render using PVR15:03
AnidelI've created mms.cfg in /etc/adobe with OverrideGPUValidation=true and it works even though at 3-4 fps but audio goes well...15:04
pupnik_crashanddie: are some modem algotirhms foss?  bet you could do "acoustic coupling" over fÃm15:04
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pupnik_who knpws15:05
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SpeedEvilAnidel: get_iplayer15:06
saLOUtRST38h: i found a way to use the sdk on rpm based machines: ssh + x-forward, sftp to a virtual client pc running under the rpm-based host ;)15:06
Anidelspeedevil I am not interested in iPlayer but in checking if that flags improves flash on n900 as well15:07
Anidelbefore the change it asked me to kill the browser because it was stuck.. now I am able to play it15:07
Anidelso it seems to do15:07
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: (IP over FM) TX:89.0MHz, RX:107.2MHz?? o.O15:10
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer, I dunno15:10
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: with "FM" you actually refer to Radio?15:11
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer, no, to satellite encryption reverse engineering using a 77015:11
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: You're looking into that too?!15:12
crashanddieoh yeah15:12
RST38hsaLOUt: Oh.15:12
* DocScrutinizer wonders how an encrypted satellite might look like15:13
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qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Although, I do think Cable is better for these purposes...15:13
DocScrutinizerI'm not quite sure you'll get any reasonable bandwidth over a FM transmitter with stereo-encoder15:17
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, or clark gable15:17
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, I'm actually about a end-of-the-world scenario morse encoder as well15:17
crashanddies/ly/ly thinking/15:17
infobotcrashanddie meant: qwerty12_N810, I'm actually thinking about a end-of-the-world scenario morse encoder as well15:17
DocScrutinizerability to tune the TX to 433MHz would be a rather cool option though15:18
crashanddiewon't happen15:18
DocScrutinizerI bet15:18
Andy80uhmm..... 15 estimaed minutes are passed, now it's saying "1 second left" since 5 minutes, during firmware upgrade via NSU :\15:19
crashanddieunless you change the caps and length of the antenna15:19
DocScrutinizeryeah, I know15:19
Andy80yes I know, but I'm a bit worried :\15:20
qwerty12_N810Andy80: NSU sucks. I used the Maemo Flasher :)15:20
Andy80qwerty12_N810: and how did you get the flash image?15:21
Andy80qwerty12_N810: ok... but how did you get it :) ?15:22
qwerty12_N810That Navifirm program; I thought it was obvious :p15:22
RST38h"Replicas actively attempt to kill living beings when left unsupervised, for the purpose of increasing their numbers. This behavior even extends to non-humans, especially cats."15:23
Andy80"Upgrade failed" !15:24
DocScrutinizer(IP over FM) still I consider the main usage of FM-TX *for me* will be to base a cheap RF-remote on that (e.g. garage door etc) rather than IP or audio15:24
Andy80qwerty12_N810: could you please send me Navifirm, I'll try to flash with it?15:24
SpeedEvilbt-serial modules are very cheap15:26
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DocScrutinizeryep, but the logic to act on serial input is -amazingly enough- more complicated than a simple remote control receiver decoder15:28
DocScrutinizerand FM radios are also really cheap15:29
SpeedEvilWell - not really15:29
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SpeedEvilSend 0x55 a lot, rectify the AC component and use it to drive a solenoid15:30
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SpeedEvilencrypted, ... all by the module15:31
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: let me put it this way: I *hate* IR-remotes as you always have to aim at the controlled device. Probably is much simpler and cheaper to replace the IR-receiver in my TV by a 5$ FM-radio than by a BT solution15:33
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lcukcrashanddie, still not set for london tuesday?15:35
crashanddielcuk, working on it15:36
bymoorhow far you can go with that FM-transmitter? 10 metres?15:36
Anidellcuk, you're coming as well?15:36
DocScrutinizerat ,ost I'd guess15:36
lcukdunno yet15:36
crashanddiebymoor, mostly depends on the quality on your reception15:36
lcukhey Anidel btw15:36
bymoorsure there's lots of dependencies15:37
crashanddiebymoor, you can read any signal from 10 feet to... where is voyager right about now?15:37
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: possibly.15:37
DocScrutinizerbymoor: the design is such you won't usually annoy your neighbour15:37
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DocScrutinizerso TX power is very low15:37
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lcuktim the toolman taylor would give n900 moar power!15:38
bymoorcrashanddie: I guess you have voyager in your carage then..15:38
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lcuki'd hazard a guess bymoor meant garage :P15:39
DocScrutinizerI'm not sure voyager can be read by any receiver on earth ATM anymore15:40
lcuknot by one, i believe it takes a concerted effort15:41
lcukwith multiple dishes and heavy signal processing15:41
lcuklike picking a needle out of a haystack15:41
zerojayAndy80: Why don't you just wait for the official flashing solution to be released by Nokia for the prerelease N900s?15:43
DocScrutinizeractually it seems both are well?
Andy80zerojay: are we testers or are we users :) ?15:46
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Anidelzerojay: what a question :)15:47
Anidelzerojay: one simply can't wait :p I can't sometimes.. I have this impulse and I had to do it yesterday.15:48
DocScrutinizerto add an point to crashanddie argument: crossing the Atlantic with 100mW TX power also seems possible15:51
crashanddienot on short wave though15:51
DocScrutinizerI'm not sure about the band they used15:52
qwerty12_N810lcuk: You need a "56k/tablet warning" on that thread :p15:52
crashanddieprobably horses15:52
lcukham radio people dxing around the world15:52
pupnik_have not been able to uplÃoad one video to flickr from n900 - please test this15:52
crashanddiepupnik_, I have been able15:52
lcukusing the ion cannon blast thingy to bounce signals back in15:52
crashanddiepupnik_, but video needs to be less than 90s15:52
lcuklol qwerty12_N810 yeah ok15:53
pupnik_48s here- trying 18 hpurs continuously15:53
lcuki should lower the res of the pics15:53
lcukby default15:53
crashanddiepupnik_, and your free account limits you to 2 videos per month15:53
pupnik_flickr seems to timeout15:53
lcukflickr flickers15:53
lcuk2 vids per month!15:53
pupnik_ upload starts.  that is not an account problem15:54
pupnik_sometimes gets to 75%15:54
pupnik_no resume possible!15:54
crashanddieflickr API doesn't support it15:55
pupnik_maybe timing out due to 380kb/s upstream15:55
pupnik_not a practical way to share video15:55
crashanddievideos work15:55
qwerty12_N810Why would you put videos on flickr, anyway? It's like uploading a photo album to YouTube :)15:55
pupnik_i try send a video to youtube then15:56
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pupnik_youtube not available - only ovi (no response to login)  flickr (no upload)15:57
pupnik_a better way to share would be "enter ip of recipient"15:58
pupnik_or "send to contact"15:58
qwerty12_N810Tried the Pixelpipe plugin? I had it uploading an image to an FTP server15:58
pupnik_no middleman15:59
pupnik_wow cool15:59
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lcukqwerty12_N810, can pixelpipe push a copy of the image to mmc16:00
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qwerty12_N810MMC as in a memory card, or?16:01
lcuki would like to have a dedicated mmc plugged in which gets copies of the images which i can swap in out as required, but the camera doesnt break if its not there16:01
pupnik_registering pixelpipe crashed media player16:01
lcukand i dont mind copies16:01
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Dunno, it's for uploading stuff to online sites. Just copy the images, manually, from the File manager when done with the camera :)16:02
pupnik_what about telling camera app to store on mmc alternatively16:02
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lcukdont want alternatively - just want a dynamic push to it, its simple enough for me to make a little daemon i suppose16:03
lcukjust wondered whether pp would manage it16:03
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qwerty12_N810No point. You would still have to instigate the sharing process manually, like you would when copying from File manager16:04
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lcuki thought pp was automatic?16:04
lcuklive like qic or whatever its called?16:04
qwerty12_N810It's a plugin that adds another option to the dialog containing "Share via Bluetooth" etc.16:06
Anidelit's called Share via Services16:06
* lcuk will make a daemon eventually then16:06
Anidelyou develop your plugin (documented) and it'll appear when you click Share via Services16:06
crashanddiegood lord, some chick from HSBC just flirted with me on the phone16:06
Anidelflickr, pp, ovi, facebook all are plugins for Share via Services16:06
Anidelshame is.. there's still no documented/public APIs for us to make use of it :(16:07
lcukupload to :D16:07
Anidelyou can make it, sure.. it'd documented :)16:07
lcukcompress and upload as tweet to twitter :D16:07
Anidelyou can make it open a thread :p16:07
Anidelthere's no share via twitter yet.. you can make that as well :) but you can simply then use pp for this16:08
pupnik_anidel ow!16:08
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Anidelpupnik what?16:09
Anidellcuk cool indeed :)16:11
lcukAnidel, i keep wondering about making an automatic thread maker on tmo16:11
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Er, they're called spambots16:12
lcuka juornal/diary/blog subforum for us16:12
lcuklol yeah q16:12
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pupnik_no documented api for sharing via service.. looks like this is a money issue16:12
pupnik_or securitty by obscurity16:12
lcukhas anyone asked officially (or via a bug) about how to access it?16:13
lbtsharing via aservice?16:14
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lcukhey konttori16:14
lcukassume so lbt16:14
lbtyou mean like the maemopad example source does?16:14
lbtshare by email16:15
lbtshare by bluetooth16:15
lbt"never attribute to malice that which can be explained through incompetence"16:15
Anidelpupnik you can create a new plugin16:15
pupnik_can fraps on windows stream the video?  i want to show someone my playing crysis on n90016:16
Anidelpupnik but can't make use of them (yet) in your own app16:16
qwerty12_N810lbt: It's missing "Share by service", which is the complaint here16:16
lbtah, not "share by $service"16:16
Anidelit's documented16:17
pupnik_crashed browser16:17
pupnik_i am *good*16:17 is functioning at its usual fast speeds, I see16:18
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pupnik_it is the dsmn nsa archiving everything16:18
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Anidelwell I've read tero is busy with the "move" so .. hopefully soon we'll have a faster maemo.org16:19
lcukim not sure why they want to archive the flotsam that tmo can create at times.16:19
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* lcuk is bugfixing liqbase this we16:20
* Anidel is working on a new awesome feature for Xournal :P :P :P 16:21
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: Echelon surely does ;-P16:21
Anidelsomething that that crap liqbase can only envy :P :P hihihi16:21
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lcuklol Anidel ;)16:22
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Anidelso something changed in 42-11 :
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AnidelI've read the italian article on 46-5 available from Nokia.. I think they just saw MickyFin screenshot of his own N900 that was upgraded at Nokia this week :)16:26
lcukAnidel, thread, not diff please16:26
Anidelthere you have it16:27
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lcukdont tell the police you have an n90016:27
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derfIt's still morning here, if that helps.16:40
lardmanit's a wet rainy galey afternoon here16:41
* lardman is not sure about forming an adjective from gale16:41
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lardmanso, what does one do when one runs out of space on root?16:42
lardmancurse the fact that python is not optified yet?16:42
lardmanare there any recommended things to remove?16:42
lizardolardman: that will be fixed soon (today or monday)16:43
lardmanlizardo: cool :P)16:43
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lizardolardman: but I'll only be able to upload the fixes to extras-devel, so we will have to wait some python application be promoted to pull the new packages :/16:44
* lardman is typing on a netbook, keep missing keys16:44
pupnik_curse python, join Ãme in song16:44
lardmanlizardo: oh right, well I'll update from there anyway so no worries16:44
lardmanpupnik_: python is nice really16:44
pupnik_i am happier with my minority opinion status than with worrying about whether it is justifiable16:45
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lcuklardman, theres a couple of themes which are large16:46
lcuksome localization stuff16:46
lcuksome deb archives16:46
pupnik_image viewer thumbnail pulls in every album cover on system16:47
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lardmanhmm, doesn't look like the themes can be removed individually16:48
lcukrm -r16:49
lardmanwow, a whole 6MB free now16:49
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derfThat's about all I ever have free on my N810.16:50
qwerty12_N810lardman: rm -rf /home/user/MyDocs/furry_archives16:50
lcukmydocs isnt include qwerty12_N81016:51
lcukhe can keep his stash16:51
lcukbut lardman needs to share16:51
lardmanqwerty12_N810: but that's not on the rootfs, so makes no odds16:51
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pupnik_on some share via flickr, n900 thinks photo upload is incomplete, flicker thinks it is complete, resulting in this mess of duplicates --   in ADDITION, flickr delete button does not work in n900 browser - is this a bugreport candidate for
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* pupnik_ is just trying out some basic features since that is what was requested17:02
cehtehaprops browser+buttons, i cant scroll in about:config in scratchbox/xephyr17:04
cehtehnor search17:04
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bymoorHave you tried adblock+ on N900 browser? For me the preferences page opens, but buttons ain't working. :/17:13
cehtehon n900 or scratchbox?17:14
bymoorSo I actually can't subscribe to any of the block lists.17:14
bymooron n90017:14
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bymoorFor example when I press "filters" in the upper menu, the dropmenu sometimes flickers there, but I really cannot access it.17:16
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bymoorsame for the rest of the menus17:17
bymoorWhen pressing "Add filter..", it clearly shows that button gets focus, but still nothing happens.17:18
bymoorOh.. Cancel is the only button that works. :)17:18
saLOUtis it possible do upload a 3GB image to the garage?17:20
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lcukhey javispedro17:27
* Stskeeps ponders the bullshit bingo thread17:27
javispedrohello lcuk17:27
Stskeepsit's hillarious cos they get the bullshit part censored on talk17:27
lcukStskeeps, if it were mixed up amongst 100s of apps it wouldnt be an issue at all17:27
javispedrotalk censoring?17:27
lcukbut i wonder how the effect of the first app being seen is17:27
Stskeepsjavispedro: bullshit = ********17:28
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javispedro"Shall I leave this forum" thread17:28
Stskeeps'oh yes please'?17:28
javispedroI foresee an imminent increase in popcorn shipments this weekend17:29
lcukim thinking of joining up as the devil and having a "should i join this forum" thread17:29
Stskeepsjavispedro: did sd69 catch you?17:29
pupnik_oh who said popcorn.  darn you brb17:29
* qwerty12_N810 votes yes on that poll for the fuck of it17:29
javispedroStskeeps: yeah, he pm'd me17:29
lcukme too17:30
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* lcuk should respond really17:30
javispedroStskeeps: what's his position either way?17:30
* lcuk was busy at the time and forgot17:30
Stskeepsjavispedro: position? diablo SSU, so same as you :)17:30
Stskeepsi've stated to him what i hope to see with them (info on where to watch for them, how restrictive it is to get libs and if a texture from pixmap extension is there or possible)17:31
qwerty12_N810SD69: Will respond when I'm sat behind my computer :)17:31
javispedrohey, how can you read my PMs qwerty?17:31
Stskeepsjavispedro: so it's in good hands now :)17:31
qwerty12_N810javispedro: I found about your Hello Kitty obsession and, hence, getting your password wasn't hard from there on...17:32
javispedroI ponder wheter to CC him and you in the TI discussion?17:32
javispedrojust in case he's also having one ongoing that I don't know of.17:33
Stskeepsjavispedro: feel free to cc me on the stuff so i'm aware what's going on17:33
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lcukgmail just got cool17:44
lcuksomeone signed me up for some spam17:44
lcukwhen i marked it as spam17:44
* javispedro ponders why gmail thinks the best adds to show alongside an email about "OMAP2" stuff are "Free love test" and "Free know-when-you're-going-to-die test"17:45
lcukthey offered to unsubscribe cos it was a known site17:45
qwerty12_N810lcuk: It was only intended as a joke...17:45
lcuklol qwerty12_N810 i get far more than you think17:45
* qwerty12_N810 has 317 spam e-mails in his Gmail account17:46
lcukmine normally bubbles at around the 2-3000 mark17:46
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lcukbut on some months its gone >15k17:47
javispedrowell, I aggregate a shitload of mail accounts to this one, so having 2910 is to be expected17:47
lcuki dont know why most of em say "hey javis,"17:47
javispedro*javis hides*17:47
qwerty12_N810lcuk: The "Come to London" one wasn't meant to go to Spam, BTW17:48
Anidelin the new firmware 42-11 they changed the way they handle rotation... I have two videos showing how xournal rotates in 41-10 and in 42-11 and I really like the way they were doing it before.. asap I'll update them17:48
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* lcuk goes coding17:51
javispedroman, BasiliskII is the best computer emulator :)17:51
* lardman is watching domino day 2009, great stuff17:53
* lardman is suffering from a hangover in case you were wondering why...17:54
RST38hAnidel: changed how? =)17:54
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qwerty12_N810lardman: Don't worry, we know you would've been watching it, anyway, hangover or no hangover17:54
lardmanqwerty12_N810: I imagine you must also be watching as you understand the quality of the programming17:55
qwerty12_N810lardman: I'm under the impression that your choice in programs must be just as bad as your choice in music17:57
javispedroanyone know by hand the bug# for the A-GPS cannot be used without the "A-" data?17:58
RST38hjavis: a moment17:58
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lardmanthis really is quality, do switch over and watch :)18:01
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lcuklardman, chan?18:05
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Anidelrst38h before I could see my toolbar changing before the rotation, the rotation, and when done, the canvas was fully rendered in portrait mode (and viceversa), very clean...18:16
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lcukAnidel, and now?18:17
Anidelrst38h: now it starts the rotation, when it ends, the toolbar is halfway in the middle of the screen (rotated), then you see it re-rendering the screen and pushing the toolbar to the lower part of the screen18:17
Anidelviceversa, when completing the rotation to landscape, you see half screen with the canvas and half screen empty and then it completes the rendering18:18
javispedrothe questions is... horrible, but any faster? :)18:18
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Anidelnot any faster...18:18
Anidelsame speed, worse looking.18:18
AnidelI'll upload tonight the two videos18:19
Anidelnow I am going out18:19
Anidelsee you later18:20
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jebbajebWhich script should I use to install SDK?18:24
jebbajeb    &
pupnik_bug: browser: can not clÃick on text entry field in google.com18:24
pupnik_can not enter text18:24
Stskeepspupnik_: summit version issue mostly18:24
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jebbajebit seems the script is more recent (sbox2 versus scratchbox1?).  But the other one is listed at Nokia's Maemo SDK 5 page.  Hmmm...18:26
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pupnik_jebbajeb: i would take the one referenced by maemo518:27
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jebbajeb     It is slightly older Oct 5.18:28
jebbajeb   2009-11-02   Newer...  seem quite different scripts though.18:28
pupnik_lus chances are better the .sh author knew what they were doing18:29
* pupnik_ takes cover18:29
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jebbajebheh. but i think  the .sh got me scratchbox1, not scratchbox2 (debian lenny)18:30
pupnik_do you want sb2?18:30
pupnik_maybe you dont18:31
jebbajebwell, i did the *whole* thing (with slow 'net), based on the docs.  Then I came across the link at garage, which appears more recent.  Plus it is  maemo SDK+ 1.0.19, and I think the other one is  maemo SDK+ 1.0.1618:32
jebbajebthe one at garage appears to use scratchbox218:32
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jebbajebI figure there ought to be just one standard SDK for N900, but the one on looks old...18:33
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pupnik_jebbajeb: i wish i knew.  hang around, someone should know18:46
pupnik_i hope to get stable dev pc setup today18:46
lardmanall over, they broke the world record! yay!18:47
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lardmanis there a Fremantle gmail app/applet?18:48
pupnik_what is the plan for hacker os bootloader for n900?  say i wanted to put the development env on device...18:48
lardmanjebbajeb: Domino Day 2009! ;)18:48
jebbajeblardman: i believe i stumbled across one somewhere18:48
pupnik_havent seen one lardman18:48
lardmanjebbajeb: there's something for diablo I just saw -
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lardmanqt web app which masquerades as safari and therefore gets the lightweight iphone like interface18:50
lardmancan desktop applet use acceleraiton?18:51
pupnik_i LOVE double-click to zoom on N900 browser .. solves the hard-to-hit-link problem nicely!18:51
lardmanoh, does it do that?18:51
lardmanis there a new image out yet?18:51
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lardmanI wonder what image the shpping phones use?18:53
pupnik_dunno!.  double-click near a link18:53
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pupnik_wb timeless_mbp18:54
pupnik_what is mbp?18:54
timeless_mbpmacbook pro18:54
qwerty12_N810pupnik_: Something you don't want18:54
mikhasunless you need 8h batteries18:55
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javispedropupnik_: timeless' loves safari, didn't you know ? ;)18:56
timeless_mbpjavispedro: you mean i love when osx forces me to restart so i can update safari?18:56
mikhaspupnik_, you dont have to doubleclick near a link, the browser always tries to zoom into the current block element on doubleclick18:57
javispedroI wouldn't expect otherwise from an operating system pet browser18:57
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pupnik_oh? mmm18:57
mikhasit's great for reading text, too18:57
pupnik_ok i love it18:57
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mikhassadly this feature is not in the hildon UI spec. I wish every app would do it18:58
mikhasevery app that deals with text at least18:58
pupnik_filebrowsers? :)18:59
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mikhasoh, the pain ...18:59
mikhasyou said it18:59
RST38hthe suffering!18:59
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pupnik_maybe a maemo user should seldom see a "file browser"19:00
mikhasyeah, right ...19:00
timeless_mbppupnik_: are you using my localization?19:00
pupnik_?  i dont get what is painful, precisely19:00
mikhasbut to be honest, I dont know how good the nokia whatever suite for windows is19:01
pupnik_timeless_mbp: not that i am aware..19:01
pupnik_timeless_mbp: i went to engl (usa)19:01
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: I think the filebrowser is so fubar usually, I tend to agree with you. And add we got terminal and mc for that, to do the job right :-/19:02
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mikhasI love how you can zoom in the terminal19:03
mikhasmakes me want to have 200 DPI screens on my laptop19:03
lopzhi :p19:03
mikhasand all the time I thought my eye sight is bad19:04
SpeedEvilmikhas: 140dpi is the minimum sane resolution IMO for laptops.19:04
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SpeedEvilmikhas: 100dpi is just stupid.19:04
mikhasyou are probably right, I was simply never aware of how big of a difference it can be19:04
mikhasI thought bigger DPI wouldnt help to increase readibility. how wrong I was19:05
moo__browsing web pages is quite nice compared to S60 devices - so I agree with mikhas19:05
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moo__user007, the secret agent19:06
moo__user007: has Q given you new toys recently?19:06
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user007not yet,...19:07
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user007guys, I get the follow error: files /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/defaults: No shuch file19:09
unixSnobwhat a lousy design for an iToilet19:09
user007but I have installed this...19:09
unixSnobmust be a knock-off.. apple wouldn't have a tank sitting on the back19:09
javispedrooh no, not another palm bought by somebody rumour19:09
SpeedEvilnokia bought palm.19:10
RST38hPlease, make it Oracle =)19:10
SpeedEvilOr was it JCB.19:10
javispedroit's Nokia this time it seems.19:10
SpeedEvilI know! Nasa!19:10
javispedro(nokia _again_. dang stupid people)19:10
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SpeedEvilmikhas: yeah. The obvious test case is - If you move the screen twice as far away - do you have to increase the fontsize by twice in order to see it?19:11
javispedroengadget even goes to say "nokia may be interested in webos"19:11
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javispedroyes. definitely.19:11
RST38hof course19:12
RST38hit just fits Nokia's strategy sooooooo well19:12
BBNSo.o what strategy?19:12
javispedrowell guys, starting getting books on webos internals!19:13
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BBNStrying to get QML working on N900 :319:14
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BBNSQML looks promising.19:15
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* lcuk finishes his lazy afternoon of coding 19:16
lcuktotal new LOC: 019:16
* SpeedEvil finishes his annoying afternoon of failing the practical driving test again.19:17
lcukdragged in code from March: 334 :)19:17
lcuklol SpeedEvil my missus failed her test a few times19:17
lcuktwice for speeding19:17
* lcuk laughed19:17
SpeedEvillcuk: Bad distance perception basically - not helped by my last several driving lessons being at night.19:18
lcuktracy had her first test in heavy rain19:18
SpeedEvilPulling out slightly too late, and getting a fault.19:18
lardmanSpeedEvil: how old are you?19:18
BBNSlcuk: how's the new job going?19:18
SpeedEvilNot got tested basically as through ill health not had car.19:19
lardmanSpeedEvil: how come you've not learned yet?19:19
lcukBBNS, interesting, lots and lots of reading and learning and picking up things19:19
lardmanmoving boxes hey?19:19
BBNSlcuk: i though it's opposite. =p you teach them.19:19
RST38hlcuk: congratulations, btw19:19
lcuksame as any new job, im more tired now than ive ever been19:19
SpeedEvillcuk: Woo! hadn't heard.19:20
SpeedEvillcuk: Belated cogratiations19:20
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lardmanlcuk: you going to move then?19:20
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lcuklardman, at some point as reqd yeah, but not immediately19:21
lcukthx guys :D19:21
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mikhasSpeedEvil, sucks.19:22
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lcukis there a computerised potato peeler yet?19:25
lcukapart from the big sanding barrels the chipshops use19:25
javispedroAdobe PotatoShop ?19:27
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lardmanwhere should one look to produce 2d hw accelerated transitions?19:29
FlyserOpenGL ES19:30
lardmanthanks for that :p19:30
lardmanpassing by electrons enroute ;)19:30
javispedroor Clutter..19:31
lardmanah, of course19:31
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I suppose a totally analog approach to cook the potato 1mm deep from peel by really hot liquid, then just blow away the soft peel and 1mm of cooked potato with high pressure air19:31
lardmananyone know if desktop applets can use hw acceleration?19:31
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lardmanI guess so19:32
Flysermaybe XRender is accelerated too19:32
Flyserdont know for sure though19:32
Maceri am at the barber and some people shouldnt bother19:32
javispedrothey don't run in hildon-desktop process any longer19:32
lardmanFlyser: I'll do some digging, thanks19:32
Maceri mean cmon dude. why am i waiting 15 mins for a bald person19:32
lardmanjavispedro: ok19:33
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lardmanMacer: maybe he's having a polish?19:33
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lcuklol lardman19:36
lardmanhmm, can anyone else access the openismus site?19:39
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javispedroI can19:40
rangeSame here.19:40
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lardmanI get a timeout19:41
javispedrolardman: though, you may be interested in HildonAnimationActor19:41
mikhaslardman, the server can be slow sometimes19:42
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mikhaswhy not just a proxy, lardman. or ask someone to send you the pdf via a t.m.o PM =)19:44
lardmanlcuk: nice site19:45
lardmanmikhas: ok19:46
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lardmanlooks like a bunch of html pages, otherwise i'd grab it from the google cache19:47
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lardmanhmm, pdf is not cached19:50
mikhasdoes andre__ know anything about ocassional server problems w.r.t
Shapeshifter am I the only one seeing "0 viewing" on all these forums, while the toplevel will actually list numbers19:51
mikhasperhaps some stupid filtering on behalf of the provider. blame the script kiddies and their ddos attacks =(19:51
mikhasI fear that in 30 years or so we will tell our grand children that there was net neutrality, long long ago ...19:52
lardmanhmm, looks like my provider is just being crap atm19:53
rangeShapeshifter: No, I also only see the "0 viewing"19:53 also times out19:54
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andre__mikhas, isn't there an openismus channel for that? ;-)19:55
andre__i just got my mail19:55
lcuklardman, hold on, ill just reboot the internet for you, its been playing up for a few people today19:55
qwerty12_N810Anidel: Who said you can't use "Share via service" from your own app? - achieved with dlopen() and guesswork.19:55
lardmanlcuk: good stuff :)19:55
mikhaslcuk, lol19:55
mikhasandre__, but is it opened during weekends?19:56
lcukeveryone save their work19:56
* SpeedEvil saves.19:56
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810++ i mean :P19:56
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mikhasyou meant pr0n?19:56
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: You forgot ~ =)19:56
lcukmikhas, you should have a sizeable local cache (at least there was last time we took a copy)19:57
qwerty12_N810Although, I see the dialog isn't being set transient to my window19:57
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andre__mikhas, sure, 24/719:57
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: there's no api for share? only for making sharing plugins?19:57
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Correct. Make as much plugins as you want, but no way to bring up that sharing dialog from your app19:58
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: ..19:58
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: what lib has the dialog?19:58
Stskeepsk19:58, even19:58
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lardmanoff to the shops, bbl20:00
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: they can probably be convinced to push out sharing-dialog-dev as well20:01
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* Stskeeps adds to todo20:03
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Stskeepsi assume it's OK it would be L7/nokia-binaries?20:04
qwerty12_N810sharing-dialog is already in nokia-binaries20:04
qwerty12_N810So I can't see how else it'd be done :)20:04
Stskeepsyeah, that's what i figured20:04
lcukjavispedro, thanks for updating the code flow about the pathway20:05
lcuka bitmap takes20:05
lcukits still a very long pipeline!20:05
javispedroand I don't know exactly how costly the texture_from_pixmap conversion is. I had a better (but wrong) idea about the process before Sts pointed me to that nokia extension :P20:06
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lcukcan you store XYZ data on x11 that the server can access20:07
lcukthats not a normal pixmap etc20:07
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javispedrowell I guess you can store certain data as Atoms, bt why would you want to do that?20:08
lcukie, could you precache the powervr textures at your side and by some magic have the desktop use them without needign a conversion everytime20:08
javispedrohildon-desktop gets all its image data from windows20:09
lcukyes i know20:09
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javispedroso just create a offscreen one (for example hildonanimationactor) and draw it once20:10
lcukx-atom-use-this-texure-instead -> ptr to actual powervr texture20:10
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javispedrolcuk: that's my idea20:10
* lcuk nods great!20:10
lcukbbl tea20:10
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: bug 617720:13
povbotBug Consider pushing sharing-dialog-dev to nokia-binaries to encourage developer usage of sharing dialog20:13
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Thanks. Added my 2c20:16
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* lcuk strokes chin20:33
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* SpeedEvil strokes big toe.20:42
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jebbajebanyone know if the "correct" SDK to use for N900 is the one based on scratchbox 1 or sbox2 ?20:44
wazdDamn, I have a great interior design idea!20:44
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Stskeepsa chair?20:44
wazdBut I suspect that it's already done20:44
wazdStskeeps: yes!20:44
wazdStskeeps: :D20:44
Stskeepsoh dear20:45
qwerty12_N810wazd: Nonsense! Now just give me your ideas...20:45
wazdStskeeps: imagine some material for fake celling that can pass the light from beneath but looks opaque from the front20:46
lcuklike, paper20:46
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wazdlcuk: sort of, but more robust20:47
lcuklike, card20:47
lcukor plastic20:47
lcukor any one of hundreds of translucent/frosted materials20:47
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wazdso any source will look like fancy light spot on the celling20:48
wazdwithout any physical presence20:48
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lcukkotczarny posted this yesterday in #liqbase
lcuki thought ti was amazing20:50
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javispedrojebbajeb, scratchbox120:52
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SpeedEvilI want to make a virtual sky.20:54
Ceron^ <- here in the new IRC description from the tv series Numb3rs20:54
SpeedEvilI've got it sketched out.20:54
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Jaffajebbajeb: The "official" SDK is based on Scratchbox 120:54
wazdCeron^: ah, not again20:54
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wazdjavispedro: that's CSI I think :D20:55
SpeedEvilTake 1mm diameter refractive index 2 balls - you get them in barrels for use in signs. Now, paint on each ball a phosphor pattern on the top, to make a virtual sky scene. Align a hundred million of these on a ceiling, and back-illuminate with blue/UV LEDs to make the phosphor glow.20:55
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SpeedEvilVoila - an image at infinity, of a 20*20 or so sky scene.20:56
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javispedrowhat the..20:56
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javispedrodid the dialogue went by20:56
SpeedEvilI was commenting on lcuk's CF light.20:56
javispedro"Fortunately, I speak leetspeak!" "That's so hot..."20:56
javispedroSpeedEvil: na, I was commenthing the numbers youtube :)20:57
lcukhaha SpeedEvil go even madder and use a proper eink control interface behind each ball20:57
lcukand have a live ceiling20:57
lcukable to reflect and show proper info20:57
Ceron^LU(|<1L'/ 1 $P34|< L33720:57
SpeedEvillcuk: that would be tricky.20:57
lcukSpeedEvil, not really, its just jumbotron technology20:58
SpeedEvillcuk: the idea is for a million little projectors - that mean that you have the 'sky' at visual infinity20:58
lcukeven if you considered each pixel to be pingpongball size20:58
lcukomg, its full of stars20:58
lcukmake a wall/ceiling of n900s :)20:58
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SpeedEvillcuk: As you move, and look up at a specific point in the sky, you see a specific colour of phosphor, nomatter where in the room you move20:59
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* GeneralAntilles is finally out of scrollback21:00
SpeedEvillcuk: there is a big difference between a projected image, and a virtual sky at infinity though21:01
SpeedEvil(at least for those of us with ceilings of under 50m)21:01
lcuki wasnt thinking of it for a projector in this instance21:02
lcukit is the practically microscopic mirrorsed surfaces21:02
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lcukthat give the irridescent coloring based on angle of viewer21:02
lcukgoogle search made me go cross eyed for a moment21:05
lcuktheres 2 results21:05
lcuk"Cosmic Shimmer Irridescent Watercolour Paints"21:05
lcuk"IRRIDESCENT Edible Silk range : Cake Stuff"21:05
* RST38h moos evilly21:05
lcukwhich i misread as "Irridescent edible pants"21:05
lcukhey RST38h21:05
javispedrolcuk: radium.... yummy.21:05
RST38hthere is a variety of other irridescent things21:07
lcukmmm javispedro radium isnt irridescent21:08
lcukits luminescent21:09
lcukbut tasty i agree21:09
RST38hnot really, afaik21:09
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RST38hI think you all have Cherenkov's luminiscence in mind21:10
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RST38hNice bluish glow. When you see it, it usually means that you are already dead.21:10
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* RST38h idly wonders if he should push the new versions of his stuff to the -testing21:13
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lcukRST38h, you want to start the game again21:15
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RST38hNot really21:16
javispedrowhat the fsck is going on in tmo21:17
javispedroit is driving down the hill _fast_21:17
Firebirdcasual smartphone user invasion?21:17
javispedrofor sure. but will it fix itself this time?21:18
Firebirdofftopic really needs to be removed from active topics list... "Delete me...please (0)...Delete Me (0)" wth?21:19
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RST38hjavis: Ocr2009ers + Nov2009ers are ruling the game now21:19
qwerty12_N810The guy's doing it because he wants to be banned. Good riddance, I say21:20
javispedroEternal october.21:20
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mikhasexactly how much worse can t.m.o get?21:20
lcuksomeone please make god a super moderator21:20
javispedrowell, it has gotten worse enough up to the point i'm going to call it useless21:20
mikhasbut it was useless ... nvm21:20
javispedrowhen someone pms me and doesn't like using tmo to discuss something interesting because "of fear from trolls"21:20
RST38hjavis: Well, I can make a suggestion if you want21:20
javispedrothen tmo has failed in its job.21:21
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Firebirdbleh, it was so much better when everyone was some sort of dev21:21
javispedroit's now sadly useless :(21:21
mikhaseh, just make each post cost .1€21:21
mikhasthen each "thank you" gives back .02€21:21
mikhasproblem solved21:21
RST38hjavis: We can create a google group with premoderation, add all the usual suspects as members and continue there21:21
lcuk1 problem, being an idiot does not mean you are broke21:22
lcukoh god no21:22
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RST38hjavis: Everybody else will be able to read but their messages will go through moderation until one of us adds them as members21:22
lcuknot a google group21:22
mikhaswell, but at least t.m.o would profit from such idiots then21:22
lcukthat takes us one step closer to ummm him21:22
lcukfrom the ML21:22
RST38hlcuk: You mean, Him? The Tentacled One?21:22
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lcukno, him the disliked one21:23
RST38hlcuk: which one?21:23
javispedroSteve Ballmer?21:23
lcukthe reason i will never use a google group again21:23
* lcuk cannot remember his name21:23
* RST38h isn't getting it21:23
Firebird8/12 entries in the active topics bar, must be some kind of record21:23
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* lcuk was better not remembering21:24
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javispedroI don't who he is eitherway ;P21:24
rangeOkay, can someone drive over and choke him?21:24
RST38hchoke whom?21:25
javispedrothe idiot troll.21:25
RST38hJust one of them? Why?21:25
qwerty12_N810range: Choke him? Let's all go to his house, shank him, and eat him.21:25
javispedrocause he's opened like, 20 threads in the latest hour21:25
lcukthats ok21:25
lcuklet him21:25
lcukhe will get bored soon21:26
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lcuksince theres no mods around what else can we do21:26
javispedrolet him make tmo more useless, then, when every hope is lost even for eternal october users21:26
javispedrowe can go back and try to rebuild from the ashes21:26
mikhaslet's nuke it from the orbit ...21:27
Firebirdwoa, code injection?21:27
Firebirdthe last topic he made made firefox popup a message box21:28
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* javispedro adds to noscript blacklist21:28
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javispedrowe'll see when it gets out21:28
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Anidelqwerty12: so if you tell me, I'll put it in Xournal :)21:28
lcukthats a bit much21:28
Firebirdmmm, now tmo won't load21:28
qwerty12_N810Anidel: Hmm, do you mind having to use dlopen()?21:29
Anidelqwerty12: not at all21:29
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qwerty12_N810Anidel: Cool. Let me just clean the example up and I'll give you a link21:30
Stskeepsuhoh. tmo hacked?21:30
RST38hmoo konttori21:30
Stskeepswill someone mail reggie?21:30
Anidelqwerty12: cool,thanks21:30
RST38hSts: No, why? Just assaulted by idiots21:30
mikhasso NOW we have to nuke it, hah!21:30
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lcukmoderator to t.m.o, spillage in the isle21:30
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StskeepsRST38h: script injection may mean password at risk ..21:31
javispedromy guess is vb bug.21:31
javispedronot any kind of injection21:31
RST38hSts: He has not yet injected anything, just trying it21:31
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rangeI wonder why his post count isn't rising ...21:32
RST38hSts: Probably some adolescent idiot, with mental complications from boredom, lack of social life, and the seasonal change21:32
javispedrobut hey, sts is right, please mail any mod21:32
Firebirdrange, Offtopic doesn't count21:32
rangeDidn't watch where he posts :)21:32
AnidelI've been running 42-12 from a full battery now for uhm.. 4.5 hours always connected to UMTS/3G whatever was available and sharing GPS connection and taking 2 pictures and 2 small videos.. it went down.. 1 thiny bar :D amazing21:32
javispedroqole is online21:32
* frals hugs noscript and opens up t.m.o again21:33
RST38hAnidel: Better power saving has been reported, true21:33
Anidelrst38h: much true :)21:34
javispedrogood to hear that21:34
wazddamn, where all these faggots come from21:35
RST38hAnidel: Check the total typical runtime though, I have not yet flashed, interested to know what it is =)21:35
javispedroplanet earth.21:35
lcukimproving all the time javispedro, so much so, the n920 wont need a battery at all21:35
javispedroI would like to hear that :)21:35
javispedroup so far,21:35
RST38hlcuk: The Handle then?21:35
mikhasAnidel, I disabled the automatic wifi lookup to increase battery duration21:35
Anidelrst38h: what do you mean ?21:35
Anidelmihas: I didn't21:36
javispedrom130 had wonderful battery life -> t|x a bit less -> n810 a bit more -> n900 a bit less ....21:36
mikhasbut I always forgot to switch off bluetooth =/21:36
lcukRST38h, extract energy from the envionment and including a tiny sterling engine to get warmth from your hands etc21:36
mikhasit really helps, these constant lookups are expensive21:36
lcukthat would be sweeeeet21:36
cehtehoh .. didnt i saied N910 gets a crank for scrolling .. also for charging :)21:37
lcukit shouldnt need one for scrolling21:37
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javispedroah good, the tmo troll is already menacing us "an IP ban" won't be enough21:37
Stskeepswhat's reggie's mail anyway?21:37
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javispedroStskeeps: just emailed him using tmo's profile interface21:37
lcuktho, the n900 has one - Push N900 competition included a real rolodex which when you rolled it around scrolled a contact list21:37
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: reggie A.T internettablettalk.com21:38
* Stskeeps thinks moderators needs to use a bit more iron fist soon. can't be true we can't have ordinary threads there.21:39
RST38hlcuk: I am voting for a blood based fuel cell21:39
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, wish there were a script to ignore all posts by people with join dates post August 2009.21:40
* RST38h conveniently remembers the "Hitler: Rise to Power" flick21:40
javispedromore moderators! more though police! ;)21:40
RST38hAhhahaha, General is reading my and StsKeeps' minds :)21:40
RST38hGeneral: Actually it should ignore all posts by people who joined less than 3 months ago21:41
RST38hGeneral: Giving those who stay a chance21:41
GeneralAntillesUm, why is God sending popups?21:41
* javispedro votes for iron fist and large trout21:41
RST38hjavis: Premoderation and mandatory anal cavity exam to become a member21:41
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: guess what we're talking about21:41
lcukwe should not create a super junta of original members and we should be embracing the influx of fucktards and moulding them to our liking rather than ignoring and distancing ourselves from them21:42
GeneralAntillesSomebody ban the whole IP block of whatever country that prick resides in.21:42
lcukwhat if its yours?21:42
GeneralAntilleslcuk, all the better!21:42
mikhasno no, he sad ban already21:42
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RST38hlcuk: The keyword is "fucktard"21:42
RST38hlcuk: It kinda makes your proposal pointless21:42
GeneralAntilleslcuk, the success rate on efforts like that is extremely low.21:42
GeneralAntilleslcuk, but feel free to practice your own advice and hop to it.21:43
lcukno, everyone is screaming for this now cos of one idiot going wayyyy over board21:43
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I don't have that kind of time or patience to waste.21:43
lcukbut you do21:43
lcukyou constantly sit here whining about tmo21:44
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: now everyone hates switzerland.. gaddafi, people liking polanski, and now t.m.o users ;)21:44
lcukso as much as you hate it you cannot drag yourself away21:44
GeneralAntilleslcuk, whatever dude.21:44
MacerWoody Harrelson is in 201221:44
* GeneralAntilles is going to the grocery store.21:44
javispedroI like the iron fist idea. Clearly, the slider between "useful ------------------- welcoming" has gone way too far to the "welcoming" side21:44
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Macerno kidding21:44
Maceri'm waiting on the destruction21:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: An internal blood-glucose based generator with contactless output would be so cool.21:45
javispedrounfortunately, moderator work is not cheap :(21:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: ~100W or so output, and you could eat an extra couple of burgers a day.21:45
MacerTHE EARTH'S CRUST! it is destabilizing!!21:45
RST38hYou won't get 100W I guess21:45
wazd"I am a Christian and God fearing man, but someone has to be kidding, right?"21:45
javispedrowazd: and he has an iPhone in the avatar21:45
RobertH[AU]people are pretty touchy on tmo. has it always been like that or just since us new "fucktards" arrived?21:46
StskeepsRobertH[AU]: no, most of you are OK, there's just some idiots :/21:46
RST38hThe second21:46
RST38hYou can only endure that many repetitive posts from clueless idiots21:47
RobertH[AU]Stskeeps: yeah i know it's not most of us, good to know that eventually it will settle a bit21:47
Stskeepsit's what i've been saying for quite a while.. we needed to organise to be ready to receive the hordes21:47
RST38hStskeeps: not really21:47
RST38hStskeeps: hordes do not belong there21:48
RST38hThe forum has never been created for them21:48
StskeepsRST38h: well, it did not help with the communist cabal accusations :P21:48
* lcuk feels better now21:48
lcuki just prayed21:48
RST38hStskeeps: The cabal stuff has been goign on for years though21:48
lcuki havent prayed since i was in infant school21:48
GAN900I wish the conspiracy people would just move on.21:49
Stskeepslcuk: "God at, please go away"?21:49
javispedroRST38h: i do not want hordes either but everytime that comes out it seems the net result is that it has to be a user forum or else.21:49
lcukthats pretty much it21:49
GAN900They're pros at leaching positive energy from a community.21:49
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lcukthose conspiracy people really get on my arse, i have to drive 12 miles out of my way to get to my secret meetings now21:50
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javispedrothe community is no longer there.21:50
RobertH[AU]From what I read there, it seems like a lot of people forget that all of the people who work at Nokia actually have their jobs to do. I especially hate those thread's where they demand that Peter respond to them. It is so impolite.21:50
StskeepsRobertH[AU]: that's mostly newcomers doing that21:50
RobertH[AU]Stskeeps: yeah i thought it would be21:50
lcukRobertH[AU], of course, but what about those where they asked peter to marry them21:51
w00t_Stskeeps: hey, don't tar us all with the same brush :P21:51
lcukit was great then21:51
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Stskeepsthere was a -fairly- respectful atmosphere before, but with the occasional exceptions21:51
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RobertH[AU]lcuk: i did like the "peter is so hot" tag on the old shipping thread :)21:51
pwnguindoes the n900 have a front facing webcam?21:51
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* GAN900 was on the receiving end of that often enough. ;)21:52
pwnguini was under the impression that was no, but says yes...21:52
RobertH[AU]pwnguin: yes, but not much support is implemented in software ATM21:52
lcuktheres good things in everything21:52
Stskeepsthere's really no moderators that can do something about 'God'? :P21:52
lcukthis rabble will quieten down21:52
javispedrothe worst part is that tmo was so near getting more nokians' posts, and now I wonder why qgil keeps posting there.21:52
lcukits just a shitstorm, and every site has them21:52
w00t_Stskeeps: yeah..21:52
Stskeepsjavispedro: qgil has amazing patience.21:53
Stskeepsalso, he's getting paid to do it21:53
Stskeepswhich probably helps21:53
w00t_getting paid to do it is one thing21:54
w00t_managing to remain that stoic is amazing21:54
javispedrotheoretically, lardman should be able to ban someone?21:54
* Stskeeps pokes lardman with a stick21:54
lcukqole is online21:54
RST38hlcuk: Use the Nokia-issued blakc helicopter then!21:54
javispedrothe Ninja team?21:55
lcukgood ide21:55
Dantonicomg this guy with the script...21:55
lcukas is wazd21:55
Ceron^6. Built-in GPS Routing Software (no extra charge)21:55
Ceron^The N900 comes with turn by turn GPS routing at no extra charge. No need to buy or download extra software. Maps and routing are provided by Nokia’s Ovi service.21:55
Ceron^thats bullshit :P21:55
`0660does lardman work for nokia?21:55
lcukwazd you are a moderator, moderate him21:55
Ceron^you hafto pay for it to be used for routing21:55
RST38hwe need lardman, where is lardman21:55
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javispedroI think mods can't ban21:55
Ceron^it wont give instructions21:55
javispedroat least they can't in phpBB21:55
RST38hlcuk: He can only moderate the guy in Design21:55
RobertH[AU] might be helpful for now21:55
w00t_lcuk: where 'moderate' implies 'castrate' or 'sterilise'?21:56
wazdlcuk: Can't ban anyone21:56
Stskeeps`0660: no21:56
wazdlcuk: I'm a good cop :D21:56
lcukhah ok21:56
Dantonicwait wait... Ceron^ what is that statement you made? is that a fact about the N900 or a wish?21:56
pwnguinits a quote from the link i posted21:56
`0660good, the person who would be banning people better not work for nokia :)21:56
RobertH[AU]well he has "thanks", maybe his account was hacked? if you look back the user "God" joined on oct 28 and has made actual posts21:57
Dantonicpwnguin, that's not accurate is it?21:58
Stskeeps`0660: fwiw, does include nokia employees who spend their free time on the forums as well21:58
Ceron^Dantonic: my statement was that they say it comes no no extra charge for routing21:58
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Ceron^thats wrong21:58
Stskeeps`0660: any sane soul knows that unjusitifed banning would cause the worst marketing disaster..21:58
pupnik_n900 yields less RSI stress than N810 keyboard for me!21:58
Dantonicthat's what I thought Ceron^21:58
thephilosopherdoes maemo5 have something like offline maps ?21:58
Dantonicjust checking21:58
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thephilosopherno ?21:59
Dantonicwell let's just hope that gnuite gets maemo-mapper going better than ever21:59
Stskeepsthephilosopher: yes, depending on where you bought it21:59
`0660some forums have a set of rules, which helps to decide who to ban21:59
serenityi'm using maemo in scratchbox. I'm i allowed to publish videos/screencasts of it, concerning Nokias EULA21:59
thephilosopherStskeeps: i dont have one , i am still hesitating with the droid22:00
Stskeepsserenity: i highly doubt you'll have an issue with that22:00
thephilosopherStskeeps: does the maps app have public transportation info ?22:00
Stskeepsthephilosopher: not sure.. i personally like openstreetmaps22:01
pwnguinDantonic: i posted the link to ask how reliable it was. so far the answer is "not very"22:01
pupnik_serenity, if your screencast is to show how much it sucks, maybe not.22:01
serenityStskeeps: is advertisement for nokia, sure. But i dunno if there is a paragraph22:01
lcukthat is the first time in the history of t.m.o that i have seen unity22:01
* Anidel nods22:01
Stskeepsserenity: i don't think so. read ?22:01
RobertH[AU]ahhh well, night all. It's 4 am here!22:01
pupnik_on what, lcuk?22:01
w00t_lcuk: hahaha22:01
lcukgod bein a wanker22:01
Stskeepsserenity: and frankly a lot of people would have been sued if that was so..22:02
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javispedroeven though nokia could claim copyright22:02
javispedroon any video showing their closed GUI stuff etc22:02
javispedroAFAIU, since IANAL.22:02
Stskeepsserenity: is it for a commercial purpose?22:02
serenityStskeeps: no, just to show off22:02
pupnik_like Ford Motors threatening an owners club for posting pictures of their cars in the net22:03
Stskeepsserenity: then i think you should be OK.. the nitpicking issue would be artwork22:03
pupnik_i think ford even won a court case22:03
thephilosopherStskeeps:  what is the name of the map app.. i will google it22:03
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Stskeepsthephilosopher: ovi maps22:03
Stskeepsthephilosopher: keep in mind that there are alternatives from community22:03
Stskeepsso you aren't locked to that app22:03
pwnguinpupnik_: video game screenshots are apparently copyrighted by the game maker22:03
pupnik_right, clearly, but there is fair use22:04
lcukin which country?22:04
javispedroyeah, at least here we don't have fair use.22:04
Dantonicman Ovi needs to compete with googlemaps on android don't you think?22:04
Dantoniccan they stay afloat with their navigation model?22:05
RST38hDantonic: You tell that to Nokia22:05
javispedro(and that's the reason the spanish wikipedia is nearly stripped of any image)22:05
thephilosopherStskeeps: dont get wrong but usually community apps sucks22:05
RST38hTelling this to us is somewhat academic22:05
Stskeepsthephilosopher: in this particular case, ovi maps suck more..22:05
DantonicRST38h, I'm just asking for your opinion I'm not telling you... hence  "... don't you think?"22:05
pwnguini  haven't seen ovi, but my general impression is that vendor supplied software typically sucks22:05
* javispedro kisses his N810 for no reason22:06
Stskeepsthephilosopher: but you probably wouldn't get a objective opinion about community software here :P22:06
pupnik_n810 feels incomperable. dunno if such a device will come again soon22:06
RST38hDantonic: And can you guess my opinion? =)22:06
Dantonicthephilosopher, I felt the same first impact:  Community software sucks.  But I've since changed my mind22:06
pwnguinit was pretty smart of google to hand out gps trackers to taxis for their ride finder service22:06
lcukjavispedro, rule 3422:06
DantonicRST38h, I can guess yes.22:07
pwnguinnow they have road traces for big cities22:07
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pupnik_pwnguin: owch, d'oh.. yes22:07
Dantonicthephilosopher, it's often not as polished as it could be... but very functional22:07
javispedrolcuk: (had to look that up) lol22:07
* Shapeshifter wants google maps navigation on his future n900 in Switzerland22:07
* Shapeshifter thinks it's a bit much to ask right now.22:07
lcukcan google maps help me when i go in ikea, or when im at a conference in strange room layouts?22:07
StskeepsShapeshifter: i hope you're not God ;)22:07
lcukcan it help me for mining tunnels?22:07
Dantonicthat's what maemo-mapper is for lcuk !!22:07
RST38hDantonic: *exactly*, and that is why it is academic :)22:08
ShapeshifterStskeeps: I'm not. saw his ramblings on the forums22:08
StskeepsShapeshifter: maemo mapper looks up using google maps :P22:08
lcukcan it help when i need to know where the 770,800,810,900 rooms at the summit?22:08
Shapeshifterwhat's up whith him >.>22:08
lcukDantonic, yes i agree22:08
pupnik_with topolÃogcal data, one could estimate e-bike range on n90022:08
ShapeshifterStskeeps: interesting.22:08
Dantonicsorry I stated the obvious huh?22:08
lcukbut i dont think we need to copy google maps to do something better22:08
StskeepsShapeshifter: i'll pay 5 euro if you go bash him in the head22:08
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ShapeshifterI was always expecting the n900 to be like 2 months late. It's to be expected.22:08
serenitywe have a good alternative: osm22:09
lcuki keep taking photos of adhoc maps around my vicinity22:09
rangeStskeeps: Let's start a collection22:09
lcuklocal knowledge > internet crap22:09
rangeShapeshifter: Want to get rich?22:09
Shapeshifterrange: :D22:09
Dantoniclcuk not copy, but some functionalities that google maps has are very nice... and I believe essential to compete.. Like turn by turn of course... and even voice activation which could mature very nicely on android and iphone22:09
w00t_yes, I'd put £10 into that fund22:09
w00t_anyone got contacts in switzerland?22:09
lcukturn by turn has existed forever22:09
lcukand isnt a problem22:09
lcukgoogle has voice maps22:09
javispedroTBH, God as a troll is deceiving me. I give him 2 / 10 points.22:09
javispedroI've seen worse ones.22:10
lcukbut that as i say doesnt help when i need maps the most22:10
lcukie in conf buildings with no gps22:10
Dantonichey howcome you guys never posted any video samples for download taken with the N900?  I want to see the quality ov the video first hand, not on youtube. :P22:10
RST38hpoints for what?22:10
javispedroRST38h: evilness.22:10
qwerty12_N810Anidel: ping22:10
lcukfind new strengths and opportunities22:10
Stskeeps'Because you are f u c k i n g disrupting a community by being a f u c k t a r d and a stupid a s s h o l e. '22:10
Stskeepswhere's the thanks button22:10
RST38hDantonic: That is only because you have not searched well enough22:10
RST38hDantonic: Having said that, video recording is not very good, it stutters22:11
RST38hMaybe next firmware...22:11
DantonicRST38h, possibly I've searched extensively though... I've found 1 video sample from Tnkgrl and that's it22:11
Dantonicah ok22:11
DantonicRST38h, ok I wanted to verify that22:11
RST38hStskeeps: Actually, he WANTS you to react like that22:11
pwnguinwonder why it stutters22:11
RST38hStskeeps: Trolls feed on exactly this kind of behavior22:11
rangeYeah, sorry I exploded there.22:11
StskeepsRST38h: probably..22:11
thephilosopherDantonic: i am a big fan of the opensource movement but we have to admit that usuability wise there are not the best22:11
pwnguintoo much IO, too much CPU, or just random jitter on capture?22:12
Stskeepsrange: nah, i felt the same :P22:12
javispedroReggie online22:12
javispedrosay goodbye22:12
mikkov__switching to Classic style filters the javascript22:12
pwnguinthephilosopher: compared to what?22:12
lcuklol @ reggie not managing to get to his console cos of 400 popups22:12
RST38hStskeeps: The best way to behave is never even acknowledge that the troll exists22:12
Dantonicthephilosopher, yes not as user friendly I agree22:12
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Shapeshiftermeh, I don't see the point in answering most of the topics on the forums. I don't see why people actually bother answering to inane questions like those22:12
lcuki havent seen any popups either22:12
RST38hStskeeps: Makes 'e absolutely mad22:12
lcukblack style22:12
lcukwhatever its called22:12
pwnguinthephilosopher: there's a wide diversity of open source projects, just as with closed source projects.22:13
DantonicAre there any libraries available for voice recognition? could that be implemented on maemo-mapper?22:13
Stskeepsthephilosopher: ah, yes, :Pthe good thing about projects is that we have talented designers helping out22:13
thephilosopherpwnguin:  yes  but i am talking about the general tendency22:14
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RST38hDantonic: Yes there are. Yes it could.22:14
pwnguinthephilosopher: you say you're generalizing, but i think the general tendency of closed commercial software is just as bad22:14
Shapeshifteralso, the n900 again got cheaper here :) Now at ~466 euros22:14
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ShapeshifterSwitzerland. And the contract I'm going to purchase also got cheaper.22:15
pwnguinie, you're holding google / apple as representatives, and comparing it to some crappy GPL'd tcl app22:15
ShapeshifterQuite lucky.22:15
lcukthephilosopher, early in december, there is a maemo long weekend with a specific UX meets code hackfest emphasis.22:15
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DantonicRST38h, really??!  Is gnuite willing to share the effort in regards to that?  (Sorry I'm not a programmer) so that others in the community might get in on it...22:15
cehtehdamn i dont want a swiss keybaord :P22:15
Dantonicunless he's already working on it :P22:15
Shapeshiftercehteh: ^^22:15
lcuksome of Nokias heaviest UX designers will be on hand to liase with the open source community to devise and help with maemo related OSS projects22:15
Shapeshiftercehteh: paint them all black.22:15
RST38hDantonic: Maemo Mapper sources are open afaik22:16
lcukwhat you say about a general tendency is true, but Nokia are firmly ontop of this and are on hand to help out22:16
RST38hDantonic: So?22:16
cehtehhehe .. well swiss keyboard are the worst ones for a german, familar but slightly off enough to confuse one completely ..22:16
cehtehbut i dont know if they localized the n900 for swiss22:16
Shapeshifter"damn where's the "!" ?!?!"22:16
serenityrumour: when android 2.0 with turn-by-turn navigation is available in more than 5 countries, nokia will offer ovi maps navigation also for free22:17
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DantonicRST38h, "So?" about what?22:17
flounderOn a N900 would it be possible to block data transfer across the cell network and only allow it when connect to wifi? This way you could have a standard cell plan (no data) and only do data transfer when connected to wifi which is available most everywhere now?22:17
lcukflounder, sure22:17
Shapeshifterstill, google navigation with street view enabled is uber-sweet22:17
RST38hDantonic: So, you are volunteering to add voice recognition to Maeom Mapper or what?22:17
lcukjust dont configure the 3g data side22:17
lcuki had a normal sim that wouldnt connect properly22:17
DantonicRST38h, well what could I do to help?22:18
Shapeshifterat least, it looks like that. But I wonder how the bandwidth on a phone should keep up with downloading street view images.22:18
lcuki could call and sms but no data for ages22:18
flounderlcuk, thanks for the info.22:18
Stskeepsyeah, reggie started deleting script threads22:18
DantonicShapeshifter, well so far on maemo-mapper it keeps up fine...22:19
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RST38hDantonic: Whip out the Scratchbox and start coding?22:19
pwnguinon a related data plan note, does network-manager have scripting hooks, for say "after wifi connects"?22:19
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pwnguinmy employer runs a retarded wifi gateway over http22:19
DantonicShapeshifter, even when I used to get google maps on it, would download in real time no prob... edge is a little slower but still fine...22:19
serenitywhat is the right place to annouce a translation fault?22:19
RST38hserenity: bugs.maemo.org22:20
DantonicRST38h, well I'm not a programmer, wouldn't know where to start22:20
cehtehwell i ordered a n900 for 498,99 or so at .. if it is sufficently cheaper somewhere else and deliverable i just cancel the preorder22:20
pwnguinall traffic is blocked until you auth, except for http which is redirected to the gateway22:20
Dantonicbut I am taking an intro to C class right now :)22:20
Dantonicmaybe soon!22:20
RST38hDantonic: Then it made no sense for you to inquire whether it could be done22:20
thephilosophercan ovi maps be used offline22:20
ShapeshifterDantonic: I mean street view22:20
Shapeshifternot just the maps22:20
DantonicRST38h, why is that?22:20
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DantonicShapeshifter, I see22:21
Stskeepsthephilosopher: yes, the internal MMC comes with maps22:21
RST38hDantonic: Because independently on whether the source code available or not, you can't do anything useful with it22:21
DantonicN800so i'm not allowed to make suggestions unless i can make them happen?22:22
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pwnguinfirst lesson in open source: suggestions are worthless. patches are priceless.22:22
RST38hMmm, I guess you could ask that question differently22:22
RST38hDantonic: You could ask "Is there anyone willing to add voice recognition to Maemo Mapper?"22:23
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RST38hDantonic: And then answer to this question is "no".22:23
DantonicN800all right sure22:23
pwnguinDantonicN800: if you're a student, you might consider summer of code22:23
* pwnguin wonders if maemo is a SoC project22:24
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DantonicN800pwnguin, whats that?  and I'm a student part time, still have to work a full time job22:24
Stskeepspwnguin: we parcticipated in gsoc, yeah22:24
RST38hOtherwise, anyone can make suggestions. I can suggest flying to Jupiter for deuterium for example, but what use is my suggestion to anyone?22:25
pwnguinDantonicN800: google hosts a summer open source internship22:25
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pwnguingoogle funds the money, and the open source projects handle the managment and work22:26
DantonicN800RST38h, is this how you greet anyone that comes in here with a suggestion?22:26
pwnguinRST38h: maybe nobody thought of deuterium powered jupitor flights before!22:26
DantonicN800pwnguin, sounds interesting, but i probably wouldn't have the time, unless I get laid off.22:27
qwerty12_N810DantonicN800: I believe he is giving you what they call a "reality check"22:27
DantonicN800ya i got that.22:27
pwnguinDantonicN800: marat's point is that good ideas aren't that hard to come up with, but finding someone with the time, money and skill is difficult22:28
pwnguinyes, voice recognition is neat. obviously so22:28
DantonicN800I see22:29
SpeedEvilOnboard voice recognition and storing of inbound voice.22:29
SpeedEvilA call you are screening pops up as closed caption on the bottom of your desktop22:29
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pwnguinDantonicN800: there's an old aesop fable
SpeedEvilAnd text searchability of all voice calls.22:30
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w00t_lcuk: congrats, my monitor is now covered in pepsi22:35
lcuk:D hahaha22:35
crashanddiewhat would you do that for?22:35
DantonicN800pwnguin, well, one of my first statements was that I am not a programmer. as far as I am concerned the creation of maemomapper is an impossible task.  I have basically no understanding of how libraries work, and i've guessed they are like subroutines of code with certain functionality (the wheel doesn't have to be reinvented.)  So it didn't sound unrealistic to me that people who can code something such as MM could implement somethin22:35
DantonicN800g like that.22:35
pwnguinnobody said it was impossible22:35
pwnguinyou're taking an intro to C course?22:36
crashanddieDantonicN800, you type way too much to say nothing22:36
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crashanddiepwnguin, you're flame bait, get out22:36
DantonicN800you catch my drift22:36
DantonicN800ya intro to c22:36
Stskeepsw00t_: oh dear22:36
crashanddielcuk, tuesday, what time and where?22:37
thephilosopherok so ovi maps a available offline that great new22:37
DantonicN800crashanddie, ?22:37
lcukdont know dont know22:37
w00t_Stskeeps: it's official, I've finally lost my sanity :P22:37
GeneralAntilles10 days?22:37
GeneralAntillesReggie's a whimp.22:37
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lcukGeneralAntilles, you cannot ban god forever.  seriously dude, whaat if you need him22:38
* GeneralAntilles doesn't believe in god.22:38
crashanddielcuk, just wait for him to re-invent the universe?22:38
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qwerty12_N810What if you're an Atheist? =)22:38
crashanddielcuk, I mean, that's like second coming anyway, no?22:39
lcukwould take a while22:39
lcuki havent got enough jaffa cackes to last22:39
pwnguinDantonicN800: a library is just a program that's mixed in with another one later, by the linker. it takes time to learn what subroutines are available, and come up with a plan to integrate it with the app in question.22:39
lcukcakes even22:39
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crashanddieqwerty12_N810, most people are not atheist, they're agnostics, or their "ahaven'tthoughtaboutit"22:39
DantonicN800pwnguin, ok ty22:39
lcukpwnguin, or you just just bash everything together, make sure it compiles, then ship it22:39
infobotcrashanddie meant: qwerty12_N810, most people are not atheist, they're agnostics, or they're "ahaven'tthoughtaboutit"22:39
* Hydroxide idly wonders whether it's really true that hasn't shipped yet to people who have preordered with the BH-703 headset bundle from early september ...22:40
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: lol22:40
crashanddieHydroxide, why would they have shipped before others?22:40
Hydroxidecrashanddie: eh? I don't understand the response22:40
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crashanddieHydroxide, why would have shipped before any other website?22:41
pwnguincrashanddie: as i understand it, if you bill a credit card you have 30 days to deliver or it's basically fraud22:41
SpeedEvilpwnguin: not true.22:41
crashanddiepwnguin, bollocks22:41
pwnguinmaybe nokia didnt bill until they shipped22:41
jebbajebpwnguin: well, they likely haven't charged the cards yet...22:41
Hydroxidecrashanddie: in theory Nokia has started shipping from the factories in korea to stores and distributors and such. I think nokia has some exclusivity before others get it. but that's not actually related to what my question was22:41
lcukthey have 30 days to ship it if that was the terms of the product you purchased22:41
SpeedEvilpwnguin: If you explicitly explain to th user what's happening, and give them the opportinity to cancel, they can ship years later22:41
lcukif you buy a product that says "will be delivered at the end of time"22:41
pwnguinSpeedEvil: on a credit card?22:42
lcukthen thats what you are buying22:42
DantonicN800Hydroxide, what he means is don't ask questions he thinks are stupid22:42
SpeedEvilpwnguin: If you say 'it's in stock' - they have to deliver within 30 days.22:42
HydroxideDantonicN800: heh22:42
DocScrutinizerhas Nokia shipped anywhere yet (or any of the resellers)?22:42
jebbajebboth my nokiausa and amazon orders are still listed as "preorders" fwiw22:42
HydroxideDocScrutinizer: nokia has definitely shipped from the factory. that's in an official press release.22:42
lcukSpeedEvil, no, if the site has a 30 day term and they break it then yeah22:42
pwnguinSpeedEvil: perhaps you can explain this to open pandora's lawyers22:42
SpeedEvil(the UK nokia store has not - for me at least - reported that they are shipping my order on the 20th.22:42
crashanddieHydroxide, press release or blog post?22:42
SpeedEvilof the 20th of Oct22:42
HydroxideDocScrutinizer: the question is what destinations have been directly or indirectly shipped to22:42
Hydroxidecrashanddie: both22:43
crashanddieHydroxide, link?22:43
SpeedEvilThey have also not taken my card money22:43
SpeedEvilHydroxide: There is a shipment crossing the alps by elephant right now.22:43
Hydroxidecrashanddie: for example22:43
crashanddieHydroxide, thanks22:43
Hydroxidewhich seens to redirect to
DocScrutinizerHydroxide: I know the fab has moved sme containers.My question though has been "has any user received his payed device yet"22:44
HydroxideDocScrutinizer: right, and I'm somewhat wondering the same thing22:44
lcukif the pizza shop tell you its on its way, the pizza is on its way22:44
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* lcuk is hungry22:45
HydroxideDocScrutinizer: but I was more specifically hearing that people like me who preordered when they were still doing the BH-703 bluetooth headset bundle might have their orders held until they decide to call you and offer you options, since the headset is supposedly not compatible with the N90022:45
jebbajebDocScrutinizer: i haven't heard of anyone yet.22:45
crashanddielcuk, true, people really shouldn't be looking at the dough factory to know when the pizza will be ready22:45
Anidelqwerty12: pong22:45
* lcuk nods22:45
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* Anidel nods as well22:45
w00t_I don't quite understand the impatience now22:45
Hydroxidecrashanddie, lcuk: except brightpoint/nokiausa is very bad about giving accurate indications in that regard, even historically22:45
crashanddieHydroxide, if that was your question, you seriously need to take writing classes ffs22:45
* lcuk orders pizza using sebs creditcard22:46
w00t_I mean it was fine to be impatient when there was -no- information22:46
qwerty12_N810Anidel: (flickr upload tested using it: First argument is your OSSO Context, second is the window you wish to make the dialog transient to, and the third is a URI to your file. I haven't tried giving it a "normal" path, though22:46
* lcuk offers Anidel a slice22:46
w00t_but now they're on their way, that's really all that you need to know22:46
Hydroxidecrashanddie: I disagree, but let's not get into an argument about that22:46
crashanddielcuk, bonus point if you manage to actually get the code off it:
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* Anidel accepts lcuk's slice22:46
* Anidel thanks qwerty12 ;)22:47
* lcuk accepts sebastians challenge22:47
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Hydroxidew00t_: the reason I'm impatient is that they haven't even changed my order status since mid-september and not one person has even reported their status changing from "in progress" to "shipping" or otherwise receiving a tracking number yet, four days after the PR and five to seven days after rumors say they left the factory22:48
DocScrutinizerw00t_: lol. I couldn't care less about where my device is ATM. I just want to know when I'm supposed to be at home to catch the packet before it drops to my neighbour22:48
Hydroxidew00t_: they're doing a horrible job at communicating, IOW22:48
w00t_Hydroxide: why?22:48
crashanddieHydroxide, dude, are you thick or what?22:48
* Anidel loves the dirty, dirty as well22:48
crashanddieHydroxide, from factory to reseller does not mean it's shipping to your ass!22:48
w00t_what he said22:48
Hydroxidecrashanddie: I realize that.22:48
crashanddieHydroxide, then stop fucking moaning about it22:49
* Hydroxide sets crashanddie on ignore but continues to engage with those who aren't insulting him22:49
w00t_so, when your order status changes, then it's on the way to you22:49
SpeedEvilHydroxide: You're gonna have to fundamentally just shut up and wait.22:49
Hydroxidew00t_: I realize that too22:49
SpeedEvilHydroxide: Or cancel your order. Or go on a killing spree.22:49
* Hydroxide sets speedevil on ignore too22:49
* SpeedEvil wonders if we can get him to ignore everyone.22:50
crashanddieoh yeah, that's a loss SpeedEvil!22:50
crashanddieSpeedEvil, our lives are going to be so empty22:50
crashanddiefragile, shallow22:50
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w00t_Hydroxide: don't get me wrong, I'm impatient, I just really don't see how they can really communicate more than they have.. they've said they're on the way to retailers, presumably, once retailers have them, they'll be able to tell you roughly when you'll get them22:50
crashanddiewhat shall we do without Hydroxide in our lives?22:50
Hydroxidew00t_: look ... I'm not expecting any special treatment here. I am just saying that nokia is doing a horrible job of communicating - for example, many people have reported on nokiausa forums that they have been told by nokiausa sales reps that the phones are shipping to preorder customers already22:50
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Be more acidic?22:50
Hydroxidew00t_: and yet none of them have a tracking number22:50
SpeedEvilNokia customer sales reps lie a lot. As do all reps.22:51
w00t_Hydroxide: nokia usa is not run by nokia, so that's not nokia's problem strictly speaing22:51
Hydroxidew00t_: some people were also called specifically about this compatibility issue22:51
crashanddieso you'll get another headset, what's the big deal?22:52
Hydroxidew00t_: they outsource their customer service, but nokia is definitely responsible for what they say, just like my employer is responsible for what the outsourced portion of our customer service says22:52
* crashanddie loathes Nokia for making the N900 more appealing to idiots like Hydroxide22:52
Hydroxidew00t_: it's not nokia's fault at first, but it's nokia's fault if they don't re-educate their outsourcing partner's staff22:52
Stskeepsoh dear, please take this to talk.* :P22:52
Hydroxidew00t_: they need to give them the right things to say22:52
crashanddieqgil: WHHYY??22:52
w00t_crashanddie: I think you could probably word things a little more productively22:52
crashanddiew00t_, am I not on ignore?22:53
crashanddiew00t_, also, please observe22:53
w00t_crashanddie: not for me, even if you are for him22:53
* Hydroxide is really stunned that people aren't accepting of constructive criticism here, and acquiesces to the decision. bye - feel free to /msg me if you want to continue the discussion - will remove all /ignore's22:53
crashanddielcuk, have you ever asked me to watch my language, all good friend that you are to me?22:53
Stskeepsuhm, there's no qgil here ;p22:53
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Shapeshiftermeh. you're just all on edge because you haven't received your most desired drug yet.22:54
Shapeshifterchill. have some tee.22:54
crashanddieactually, is there any of the usual irc club that hasn't asked me to watch my language?22:54
crashanddieShapeshifter, actually, the majority of people in that discussion have an n900 ;)22:54
Chanier... my n900 is only listing my skype-skype contacts... not my skype-phone contacts22:54
Shapeshiftercrashanddie: :'(22:54
Shapeshifteryou make me sad22:54
Chanianyone know how to make a call to a real phone with hte n900's skype?22:54
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Not me. But that's because I love to swear22:54
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StskeepsChani: through the phone interface22:54
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, I thought you how to swear, bitch :P22:54
StskeepsChani: if it doesn't pull skype-phone contacts, report it as a bug22:55
crashanddiedamn my english skills are low... I'm going australian already!22:55
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Thank God you did not teach me English22:55
w00t_apparantly someone needs to teach you how to spell :P22:55
Stskeepsenough of God tonight22:55
crashanddieaye, aye22:55
ChaniStskeeps: it doesn't. :(22:55
crashanddieBTW, qwerty12_N810 I might just be moving to Oz!22:55
StskeepsChani: but anyway, just go to phone, click dialing pad, click Call type: your skype account22:56
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Serious?22:56
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, aye22:56
qwerty12_N810NOOOOO!  Why? *facepalm*22:56
DocScrutinizerChani: for the make-a-call, what about just type in the number?22:56
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, cuz I got a kickass job offer/promotion?22:56
* Chani tries...22:56
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: But on the other hand, you've got Australia22:56
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* qwerty12_N810 hides22:56
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, 32C at the moment22:57
crashanddieqwerty12_N810, have you seen our weather today?22:57
qwerty12_N810Good point22:57
w00t_Chani: you seem to lurk far too many of the same places as me, btw22:57
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qwerty12_N810Aww, w00t_ has a stalker22:58
lcukbut moving to oz/nz means you will be in danger from man eating spiders22:58
lcukahhhh my mistake, you are a girl so you are safe :P22:58
w00t_qwerty12_N810: I have many stalkers, and I am stalking many people in return :-)22:58
qwerty12_N810w00t_: I'm not sure whether I should laugh or run :p22:58
w00t_don't run, unless you see the shadows moving more than they should22:59
crashanddiew00t_, nice balance in your life22:59
pupnik_can i search skype names with N900?22:59
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crashanddiepupnik_, Skype only has one name "Skype"22:59
Chanigrr. it keeps telling me "incorrect address"22:59
pupnik_can i search skype user names with N900?22:59
Chaniit's not an address, it's a phone number!22:59
Chanialso, I can't figure out how to type + on the phonead, I always get *22:59
crashanddieChani, try 0023:00
pupnik_ty crashanddie.  laziness is an enemy23:00
Chanioh, doubleclick23:00
lcuk<3 unlimited texts23:00
pupnik_you have a problem when you are too lazy to even type your question accurately.23:00
lcuksending 1 word per text rocks23:01
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* JosefAssad looks in the scrollback buffer and sees that the "why hasn't it shipped yet" whining has spilled over into irc23:01
lcukits like a jigsaw for the recipient!23:01
crashanddieJosefAssad, sadly, it has23:01
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Getting a two word reply back from the recipent is even more fun!23:01
javispedrowhy hasn't the 3D drivers shipped yet!23:01
crashanddielcuk, you could go scrabble and send one letter per text23:01
lcuki tried that yesterday23:01
lcukshe shouted23:01
ChaniI thought it *had* shipped?23:02
javispedrobtw lcuk the resistive beach is brilliant :)23:02
w00t_JosefAssad: if you think that was whining.. dear, dear god ;)23:02
lcuk;) javispedro23:02
crashanddielcuk, did you answer "SORRY HUN, YOU CAN'T MAKE THAT WORD WITH THOSE LETTERS"23:02
Chaniwhich scares me, as the one I've got here has a heck of a lot of bugs23:02
JosefAssadw00t_: I don't want to know. Serious :)23:02
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Chanialso: voicemail is lame.23:02
* Chani sulks23:02
crashanddielcuk, yeah, spiders could be dangerous23:02
lcukcrashanddie, the recipient loved it and didnt actually care what it said.  the phone was buzzing all night long23:02
crashanddielcuk, but on the other hand, I don't need to think about kids anymore, I'll just get a wombat at some point23:03
lcukahhh going up the evolutionary ladder i see23:03
w00t_JosefAssad: I'm not going to tell. Just that t.m.o has been ..insane.. (and I'm speaking as a relative newcomer). I've been equally guilty of this, but I think there are some people around that need some -serious- help. ;)23:04
crashanddiewell, I'm staying at the same place on evolution, going up on corporate, but my genes however are very quickly becoming extinct23:04
* javispedro has an idea23:04
crashanddieactually, qwerty12_N810's genes are probably going down the drain faster than mine23:05
lcuknahhh w00t_ sometimes it takes an extreme case to bring calm23:05
lcuklike a birufcation23:05
w00t_like god, you mean?23:05
w00t_that seems to have made everyone else seem positively sane23:05
javispedrohey, can anyone send me certain line of the n900's mce.ini ? I want my N810's LED to light blue when charging :)23:05
* lcuk nods23:05
lcukwazd you are running this app arent you23:05
lcukas in not just designing it in psp or whatever?23:06
wazdlcuk: erm, no :)23:06
crashanddiewazd, I say that's a fake23:06
crashanddiewazd, you're good with photo editors, and there's no way you're downloading at 2megs per sec in russia23:06
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wazdcrashanddie: well, I can, from russian trackers in fact :P23:07
crashanddiewazd, looks good though23:07
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: heh FR fan, huh?23:07
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javispedroNot really, just think that Orange is the perfect color for that :)23:08
wazdqwerty12_N810: I was thinking to move play/pause to the pop-up too23:08
javispedroand then I'll use green for something else23:08
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pwnguin  <-- anyone tried this?23:09
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qwerty12_N810wazd: Pop-up? Sorry23:11
wazdqwerty12_N810: making up a shot right now :)23:12
wazdqwerty12_N810: wish my brain had a print screen function :D23:12
pupnik_n900 video has glitches in exposure compensation, and seeming focus probs.23:13
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DocScrutinizerwazd: HDMI interface23:13
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jebbajebwoo hoo! just built my first test .deb in a scratchbox  :)23:16
crashanddiejebbajeb, nice work23:16
Stskeepsjebbajeb: welcome to a new level of insanity23:16
w00t_jebbajeb: you're still talking coherantly23:17
w00t_are you sure you did?23:17
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crashanddiethat's probably the geekiest metaphor ever: "Can I build my deb in your scratchbox?"23:17
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ping23:18
pwnguinsurely scratchbox isn't much more than a crosscompiler; you haven experienced real pain until a vendor ships a custom gcc, patched to accept $'s in var names, because they're too silly to use _23:18
Stskeepspwnguin: it's lot's worse than that..23:19
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w00t_there is a *reason* Stskeeps moved to the home of vodka23:20
pwnguinqemu, arm, chroot, pbuild, upload and bam23:20
Stskeepspwnguin: and wait 3 days on Qt? naah.23:21
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pwnguinworst case scenario there's an unused 12 node cluster downstairs23:21
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w00t_just do what i'm gonna do: distcc cluster on devices23:22
lcukthats what does23:22
jebbajebw00t_: ya, i'm sure heh23:22
lcukhow else did you think autobuilder worked?23:22
w00t_lcuk: black magic?23:22
javispedromagic indeed23:22
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* lcuk nods23:23
lcukok thats a good answer23:23
javispedrocause some days it works, the others it tries to ssh login into a random remote server23:23
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, pong?23:23
pwnguinactually, why do you have to build qt?23:23
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javispedrolcuk: God has heard your prayers and is back!23:24
pwnguinshouldn't it already be built and packaged?23:24
RST38hNow he is his own God though23:24
lcukpwnguin, i ask that question daily23:24
RST38has in Oh-My-God23:24
Anidelqwerty12: do you see this link?
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Anidelyou should ;) click on the file with your name :D23:26
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serenityhow can i scroll into pictures?23:26
AnidelI just need to polish it a bit and fix a bug I found while testing :) thanks23:27
RST38hV For Vendetta on TV. Purrrfect23:27
lcukyes w00t_ :D23:27
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thephilosopherOVI MAPPPPPPPPPSlol23:27
* RST38h wonders why they even show this movie, given how many things it implies23:27
* serenity found no option to zoom in23:27
javispedroohm an, I wish. Here on TV I can choose between "Blade II" for the 46th time this year, or23:27
qwerty12_N810Anidel: Trying it on the N900 :)23:28
Anidelshould work as well :)23:28
javispedroor nothing else.23:28
RST38hjavis: Torrent.23:28
qwerty12_N810wazd: Ah! Thanks :)23:28
qwerty12_N810Anidel: Hehe23:28
* RST38h keeps TV off most of the time anyway23:28
javispedroand they even WONDER why we flee to torrents like flies23:28
pwnguinwazd: quick suggestion. change "delete torrent" to something like "disconnect torrent"23:29
RST38hjavis: We are not normal. Remember that.23:29
RST38hjavis: Normal people watch reality shows.23:29
pwnguinit always bugs me that you have delete torrent and delete torrent+file23:29
RST38hjavis: And laugh at soaps. Ever heard that laugh in background? That is them, the NORMAL people.23:29
Anidelthe Share dialog tries to create a small thumbnail though.. it's empty as these are PDFs23:29
Shapeshifterwazd: looks nice, but... what's wrong with transmission?23:29
wazdpwnguin: disconnect torrent = pause23:29
Anidelbut that's fine.. I don't care23:30
Stskeepsneat, media player widget + dead upnp server = intense loop of "no connection to server" banners23:30
pwnguinwazd: hmm.23:30
qwerty12_N810wazd: When you finish Marina (and if fiferboy is busy, or something), I'd be honoured to package it for Extras23:30
lcuklol @ wazds' Marina like Zoolanders' Magnum23:30
pwnguindrop swarm?23:30
* javispedro fins something that could be called a good film23:31
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serenityor is there no option to zoom in? Tried circular scrolling, but nothing happend23:31
wazdRST38h: V sounds like a droid, pfff23:31
rdorschI copied a native diablo rootfs on my external flash on the N800 as described here
* wazd has V in 1080p in his collection :P23:32
rdorschIt boots and asks all the parameters (Language, Phone, etc.) but it seems that my external flash partition gets mounted readonly.23:33
rdorschHas anybody thoughs on why that is?23:33
wazdqwerty12_N900: well, that won't happen any time soon, but thanks :)23:33
rdorschmount shows /dev/mmcblk1p2 on / type ext2 (ro,noatime)23:34
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Stskeepsrdorsch: should be rw23:34
Stskeepshow did you boot externally?23:34
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rdorschvia an entry in bootmenu.conf23:34
Stskeepsshow me the entry23:35
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rdorschMENU3 is the one I added for the external card23:38
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* lcuk goes to code, bbl23:39
rdorschMENU2 works well (was created by as a clone of the internal flash)23:39
Stskeepsrdorsch: it might mount it readonly due to needing a fsck or something23:40
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Anidelwhy I can share a Video but not a Music file ? :)23:42
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serenityhow good is the quality of the tv-out?23:43
Stskeepson n900?23:43
Stskeepsbetter than my PC.23:43
Shapeshifteroh... shit. The Droid looks damn sexy. Specially with the google navigation.23:43
StskeepsShapeshifter: snap out of it..23:43
serenitybut i only geht pal resolution, not the native one23:43
Shapeshifterand it's thin23:44
qwerty12_N900Shapeshifter: IT'S A TRAP!23:44
javispedroand it runs android!23:44
Shapeshifterbut this is cool, phones are finally going somehwere23:44
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rdorschStskeeps: I did run e2fsck when I booted from the internal SD card, but nothing to repair....23:44
javispedroto a trash can?23:44
Shapeshifterno wonder I was still on prepaid all this time using a 10$ LG crap phone23:44
pupnik_i thought output on mine looked worse than at conference - need to test with other displays23:45
Shapeshifternow there's finally some useful stuff coming up23:45
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, keyboard sucks, dpad sucks, touchscreen sucks, the slide tries to cut your fingers.23:45
Shapeshifteryeah I think the n900 is still much nicer23:45
w00t_the droid is a lie23:46
Shapeshifterbut I really want that google navigation. But it's not available in europe anyway. yet.23:46
RST38hwazd: The original sounds human enough, afaik23:46
Shapeshifterthe panel at the top looks rediculous23:47
Shapeshifterand the design in general is quite ugly I think.23:47
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jebbajebso what i'm building needs  unicode-data package.  This isn't in fremantle, but is in lenny. Can I just grab the lenny .deb and use it or do I have to rebuild unicode-data too?  (it is a noarch package, not i386 nor arm)23:51
pupnik_the image quality of n900s (on those pro beamers) at summit 2009 was incredible.23:51
pupnik_noarch means you do not rebuild23:52
ShapeshifterI'm wondering about how the "public" will pick up the n900. I've got a feeling it's going to be bashed hard.23:52
pupnik_after seeing how the public votes, i dont feel bad if they dont understand a good thing23:53
crashanddiejebbajeb, a python or sh script would be noarch, for example23:53
pupnik_and the -data in the darn package name implies...23:54
jebbajebcrashanddie: ya, this is just unicode data, noarch for sure.  I'm rebuilding it anyway, just to get the hang of it  ;)23:54
jebbajeb"standalone data"23:55
crashanddiejebbajeb, you do realise there's a script out there that does the fetching of sources and recompilation automatically for you?23:55
pupnik_what is it called23:55
Stskeepswazd: speaking of chairs23:55
pupnik_less typing23:55
javispedroI guess
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