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Relationships Are Everything With Stewart Fleming

In this episode, Stewart Fleming from Logan tells us what he does and what he thinks about recession. We also talk about Logan, the group Innovate Logan, the advantages of keeping things local, sharing resources and the mindset that we don't need to own everything anymore, innovating, the overall health of the economy, going from a materialism environment to a postmaterialism environment, having zero waste schools, his vision for Logan to not be just a drive-thru but the destination, and so much more! 

Josh: All right. Everyone out there in podcast world I've got a very special guest for you today, I've got Stewart. He is from Logan, and actually you know what, I'm going to let you tell me about what it is that you do in the voodoo that you do.

Stewart: I do a lot of stuff. I'm involved in about four or five different organisations as a volunteer. I run multiple businesses. I'm on the board of a number of different organisations in the city and currently running for mayor. So I keep myself a pretty busy man.

If you want to learn more about recession-proofing your business through automation, talk to a dork. 

Stewart FlemingJosh: Do you have time to sleep?

Stewart: I get probably three to four hours of sleep a night. Now, I'm pretty controlled to be very consistent about making sure I get at least five hours when possible. You do what you can with the time that you got.

Josh: I know I've gone through periods of time where I'm going, 'Okay, I'm going to get something down and just working.' And you, you're getting no sleep. So you can get used to having no sleep, and then you have that one opportunity to have an eight-hour night. And you feel like you've slipped the four days. Sometimes you have to be in the candle at both ends.

Stewart: I think there's also that, if you are used to running at that speed, sometimes if you have too much sleep, you get crazy tired at that point. It's like, well, you've had that now I want that four days in a row. Like, yeah, I dunno. Let's just keep running.

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Josh: The way the body works. So, we've been talking a lot of different business owners through this channel and, which is something that's on people's minds, whether they're saying it or not. And that is around the the recession coming or isn't coming? And we want to talk about how to recession-proof your business. Today, we're going to be talking a bit about specifically keeping things local. So I've been running a business for 13 years throughout Logan and been in business in one way or another for around 20 years in Logan.

I've only more recently found out about a whole bunch of advantages to making sure that you are staying local, running your business within the local area that you are running a business. So what have you seen out and about around the traps in regards to a business, the overall health of the economy? What are your thoughts on that?


Stewart: Logan is uniquely positioned at the moment to grow. We're halfway between Brisbane Gold Coast. We have a very large amount of land available to us. We've got some very good infrastructure. As much as we hate being stuck in the traffic, The M1 brings millions of cars passed.

Stewart FlemingWe've got train lines coming through and giving access to some pretty good infrastructure at the moment. Can get better for sure. But from a business point of view, we're uniquely positioned, Brisbane and Gold Coast have come from our sort of higher socioeconomic background and are starting to shrink in, as you say, this recession. The economy is shrinking and I think it's changing.

And we had someone talking to the most recent chamber of commerce about going from a materialism environment to a postmaterialism environment. And what he was talking about was the idea that we start to share resources. So rather than own a thousand shirts, you might only own 30 shirts and you switch them around more rather than own a car you use over rather than own a holiday house, use Airbnb. And I know those are two very specific examples. But the examples sit behind our mindset and the mindset is that we don't need to own everything anymore. What you're talking about doing business locally is one of the things that we were talking about at a fairly high economic level.

When I started to put my hand up to run for mayor, I wanted to reach out to those that had some fairly significant influence in the economy of Logan. So some of the more significant business owners, some of the more significant landowners, and some of the property developers now.

Yeah, property developers. Ooh, terrible. You can't take money from them. You should be listening to them because what they understand is some really cool stuff about how things are developing now and the changing way that we're looking at. We should be looking at economies. Sure. We should be making sure we get great roads, but if we had fantastic internet, I'm not talking good internet. I'm talking fantastic internet. Would you need to leave your house to run a business? Do you need to go to an office? If you are fully automated running from home, what does that do? Can you spend more time with your kids? Can you spend more times in the local parks? This is the kind of economy that we're moving towards, and Logan is set to take advantage of that because we haven't overcapitalised yet on the infrastructure that Brisbane and Gold Coast have.

We're still growing. The reason I put my hand up from there is the opportunity I saw for Logan needed someone that had some innovative ideas in their head.

I'm on the board of Innovate Logan. It's a little group that represents manufacturers, state government, local government, chambers of commerce, and it looks at how do we get more innovation happening in the city. There's some very, very cool stuff going on, but I think the idea of more people working locally will reduce the load, and it also helps us start to recession-proof our businesses.

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Josh: I couldn't agree more. You said it perfectly at the start. From a geography standpoint, we've got the Gold Coast, they've got the beaches and bits and pieces. You've got Brisbane. It's, I guess, the original, Mecca hub for working Logan is positioned in a perfect environment where it's growing from either edge. You've got all of the manufacturing and industry coming up from the gold coast, edging into Logan, and then you've got a lot of the other industry coming from Eight Mile Plains and so on and so forth. Building up as it's coming more and more within Logan, and from an investment standpoint, it's the best place, in my opinion, to buy any house because if you do have a business that is shrinking because of the recession and you need to be tighter with your dollars, the dollars go further in Logan. The dollars allow you to achieve more things in a localised area. With investment properties, there's a hell of a lot of people that are moving to Logan because instead of buying a place in Brisbane that's gonna set you up for $1 million or more, and then you have to walk around with traffic everywhere.

In Logan, you still have beautiful parks. You can still get something that's more than living on top of each other. It's at an affordable price with, as you said, at an intersection as well, where you're able to go out to Ipswich if you need to go and go wherever you need to. It's perfect, from a location and drivability standpoint.

Stewart FlemingI think Innovate is fantastic. Some of the other cool stuff that I've seen around the place, Substation 33, that's something that they're using to, I haven't seen anywhere else where they're up-cycling old laptops, old gear. You think you're going to throw at that record player because no one's going to use it. There is someone down there, brainy ethics going to turn that into something cool and then they're going to upcycle and start utilising that to bring more money to Logan.

You probably know more about it. Some of the signs that they've made out of old, old gear and they look professional, schmick as for looking at the water levels and turning on flood signs along with, they made a bucket for giving power to third world countries. These are super innovative things.

I've only just started to dip my toe into some of the cool stuff that's happening around Logan that I wasn't even aware it was happening. I've been recruiting people. Okay. So I've got a friend that was in Tenerife and I was talking to him about some of the cool stuff that Substation 33 was doing. And he thought, 'Oh, that sounds really awesome. Let me check that out.' And they came down and I was talking to them about making PCBs and all this other electronic stuff that he's building together with them.

He was so interested, he moved two streets away from them so he could be spending more time building stuff. So you've got your coffee shops in bits and pieces, in Tenerife. And he's like, no let's go to something that's making a difference and actually changing around the way people's minds are working.

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Stewart: Yeah, we have this, and you're 100% right. Things are changing in Logan, and I think we're on the tipping edge of an absolute explosion in business in Logan. Now, we've already been growing in incredible rate, without population, but the business opportunities that we have here in real estate, you say, buy the worst house and the best street. Well, we're on the best street. And realistically, Logan is probably the worst house in the best street. If you look at Brisbane, Gold Coast, Logan, we are.

Stewart FlemingJosh: On a 10-year plan, if you look at where Logan was 10 years ago versus where it is now versus where it was 10 years prior to that versus where it is going to be in 10 years, it's all on the up and up. The worst house in the best street, so to speak. You can find a lot of bad houses and you could find a lot more before, but so many people are moving in. There's young blood moving in and it's similar to a lot of areas, I guess, that did have a bit of a stigma or had a couple of things that happen.

Like we had that fence fight thing that happened years ago, just a small thing that got blown out of proportion. And overall, bad things happen everywhere. One of the things that I always say, and I stand up for Logan pretty heavily off of friends who, hell, why do you live in Logan?

I said, well, because if I lived in a nice house down in the areas that you're living in, $2 or $3 million houses, it'd be too much of a reason for people to come in and break in and steal all my stuff. No one's going to come up here to do that.

Obviously being facetious, the reason why I love Logan is it takes good people in bad areas to make a change and to make an area a good area. And you can have good people in good areas and they do nothing. But if you had these people that are actually the movers and the shakers, the people like Tony from Substation 33, and that the systems like Innovate where they are helping businesses locally and they are giving people the step up, it really makes a difference. And, that is what it's all about. Just putting your name out there, listening to what is available to help you out if you are struggling.


Stewart: Yeah. We also have here one of the most giving communities in Australia. The amount of volunteers, people that volunteer, to help other people in this city is higher than anywhere else.

Stewart FlemingWe've got the social enterprise global forum coming to Logan. Why? Because this is where people give. It's such a giving community. It's such a sense of that there is this sense of community here, but it's not integrated. And one of the things that I have done as part of this campaign is going out and talking to these various groups, finding out what their problems are.

Because as a coach, that's what you do. What do you want? What do you want? What do you want as the constant question? Finding out what they want, and then talking to the next group and realising that all of these groups and whether it's a seniors group, whether it's mental health, whether it's a domestic violence, whether it's the homeless people working with the homeless, they are all working towards the same thing.

Most of them have the same problems. They're working together to solve those problems. And I think this is sort of the cornerstone of what I want to do as mayor of Logan is to create these groups that champion and bring together the group guys that are already doing it. Like we should not be putting our hand up and saying, we're going to try and solve mental health as a council.

What are we doing? What we can connect the groups that are already doing it. There are at least 13 different groups in the city, work with men's health but then don't talk to each other. Hmm. Now if we counselled and put someone on as a men's health coordinator, and it doesn't have to be, you know, their only job, but someone has to do the administration.

Because if one group tries to do that, it falls over. And this is actually what Logan together is based on, is a model called Collective Impact 3.0 came out of California. And it talks about how you heard the cats. All of the organisations are doing fantastic things.

But if you asked any one of them to coordinate with the others, it's too much. The straw has broken the camel's back. But if you have a central backbone organisation like Logan Together, they can coordinate. They can actually do the coordination, but also they can collect the statistics. The moment we don't know how many homeless that are in the city. Now, if I talk to every organisation, I might be able to get some idea, but even then there's going to be crossovers, so we don't know how big the problem is. And as you know, you can't solve the problem unless you actually know how big it is.

Josh: Data in or data out. If you don't have any data to work on, you can't really make a decision.

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Stewart: If you think the problem is 100,000 people that are homeless, you apply a solution for that amount of people when the problem was a hundred people. If you think it's a hundred and it was actually a thousand, you've applied the wrong solution, and you're never going to get anywhere, and then you'll say, we shouldn't have even tried.

innovationYou've got to find out what the size of the problem is, whether it's seniors, whether it's the sporting clubs. We don't have a peak sporting body for Logan, and we should. It’s not a hard thing to organise. The council could do that very simply because they're great organisers. The sporting club then gets representation as a peak body.

I've spoken to a bunch of these sports, whether it's squash or rugby or soccer, about this idea, and they're like, yeah, yeah, that'd be fantastic. We could say, would you be part of it all? We can see how it would work. Yes. The seniors' groups, national centres are structuring, how do we do this?

Now I've moved away from business, but the business side of it is the same sort of thing. If you've got some vertical businesses that are doing business automation or they're looking after finance for foreign companies. I know we spoke before we went on air talking about the multicultural aspect of Logan. We have access to get into over 217 different cultures. I'm pretty sure if we've got some really good to sell, we have it really big market to sell to.

This is the strength, man. This is where I get really excited because we're doing some stuff in the schools at the moment. Mosman High has piloted a program where they're recycling all of their waste. So there was a $7,000 a month bill, now, they're making either a zero or making a small profit, or sometimes they pay $100 for it. So to outsource, to send that amount of waste to landfill, 100 bucks, or they make a small profit because they're recycling the green waste, they're recycling all the plastics, they're recycling the white paper.

Josh: That's not just beer money we're talking about. That's some serious money.

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Stewart: There are 17 high schools. It's now gonna be pushed into Mabel Park. They're looking to roll it. It won't be rolling out into every school. I think and I honestly believe this hand on heart, we could be zero waste for all our schools. That's pretty exciting in and of itself. We're saving the planet a little bit. Yeah, but hang on, it gets cooler. The kids coming out of high school have a cert three. We could upgrade that to a cert four so they're coming out as recognized recycle experts.

We have 217 nationalities, and I'm pretty sure that the nationalities or the cultures that they represent all have a problem with recycling and green waste and all that sort of stuff. If we can teach our kids to do it, then we can teach other countries' kids to do it. We could be exporting recyclers.

You're talking about what are the jobs are going to be, 'Oh no, I'm going to go big on you, man. I'm going to go big, go big or go home.' If we're exporting recyclers, we are the centre of recycling. If I can get the schools to be zero waste, guess what? Business is next. If you get the kids that are currently in school to be lifelong recyclers, assuming they're going to live for probably another 60 years, once they leave school, there are 55,000 kids in school in Logan at the moment. It works out to be about 3.3 million years worth of recycling. If I only got the kids that are in school right now, not the ones coming in next year or the ones that left last year. Just the ones that are in there. 3.3 million years of recycling.

Someone said to me, 'How are you going to change global warming and the certificate 4 at a time? And seriously, the guy that was moderating said he's running for mayor? He can't do that.' I'm like, 'Let me try.' I honestly believe we can be the centre for recycling. But that's just one of the innovations we've got in the city. As you mentioned, Substation 33 and the upcycling stuff that's going on there.

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innovationJosh: They're replacing backs of TVs to create filaments to 3D print stuff. How sick is that?

Stewart: Cool. You know there's a manufacturer in Logan that creates the nuts for nuclear reactors. If you want to build a nuclear reactor anywhere in the world, you will buy the nuts for those nuclear reactors from Logan. 

Josh: There's been over the years, obviously some stigma around Logan, and some of the different names that happen to rhyme with the word Logan.

Stewart: It should be 'A new slogan for Logan.' Is that what you're trying to say?

Josh: That sounds much better.

Stewart: A new slogan for Logan.


Josh: That is where we have these cool stories, like these nuclear nuts and the flow hive. It's been a huge, huge success or being manufactured within Logan and that, that's something that was developed within Australia. 

That's been a fantastic new way of harvesting honey. There are all these really, really cool bits and things that people are doing that needs to be really pulled together to have people go, 'Oh wow, this is what they're doing.' And we sang on recycling 217 different paths, walks of life, backgrounds and belief systems that have all been bought together underneath one roof.

That spans, I don't know what the radius is of Logan off the top of my head, the theory that Logan does and, and all these different people will be eating different things and have a different idea on the foods that they're buying and the different plastics, and they're all be able to take that back to their homeland to talk to them about how they would be able to do this.

Maybe there's a certain enzyme within Rogan Josh, for instance, that gets broken down differently to what it would if you'd be having a kebab. And so that is what is awesome. Being able to have those many minds work to that. And that's an advantage that you don't have it anywhere else in Australia.

We are the most multicultural area in Australia.


Stewart: I don't think we've taken advantage of it though. And look, there are some things that I've done. I'm a businessman, but on the community focus, business matters. How are we going to do five different things? But one of the things I looked at was one of the questions I got asked was, where is the CBD?

Where's the CBD? Logan, what's the centre?

Josh: If I had to pick a spot, it wouldn't be the bit that I would say would really represent Logan as much as I'd wanted to, but I guess it'd just be where the council building is, I guess.

Stewart: Logan Central. Yep. Okay. Right. What about Springwood? What about Beenleigh? What about Jimboomba? We have opportunities. We are, uniquely placed to have three, possibly four, possibly five different hubs within our city. Now you've got Chermside for Brisbane, which is sort of the Northern hub, and you've got Mount Gravatt is sort of the Southern hub. We had the opportunity to do the same sort of thing, and so what I did was I actually went and found a guy that's created.

I managed to meet Joe Versey who set up a park road, several fair, the coffee culture. He created the coffee culture for Brisbane. Late-night coffee was not a thing until Joe came along and created it. Now Joe drives Ferrari's and he still does that sort of stuff. He was instrumental in getting James straight off the ground.

innovationHe has bar spritz on Kangaroo Point Cliffs and was talking recently to the council about putting a zip line between the top of Kangaroo Point cliffs and the botanical gardens because he is a visionary that sees things before they exist. Yeah. I brought him down and drove him around Logan Central.

We went to Springwood, Logan Central and Beenleigh and I've got his take on what do you do to create a scene? Yeah. What do you do to create a precinct, and it was interesting because I've taken the ideas that he gave me and then I've taken them to the businesses in those areas and the property guys that own the land in those areas and the residents around those areas to see does this actually make any sense to you guys?

In front of the Springwood Hotel, the very large copper, which you can see from the M1. Yup. If there was a function there every Friday night with a live band and laser lights and spotlights and food, you've got to have food, you've got to have beverage, we would get people coming off M1 on a Friday night.

I may meet my mates at the Gold Coast or Brisbane, let's meet in the middle. Let's meet at Springwood. Make it easy to get off, easy to get back on, great food, great entertainment and know it's there. Yup. You've now got a precinct.

Now that precinct will grow because corporations will want to have their office workers where they can let off steam on a Friday, Saturday night if it's open longer. There's an opportunity. Being lean, different perspective. Logan Central.

The global food market at Logan Central should be the entire area of Logan Central. But what it was saying was you don't let just any old person come in and start stumping up. You have to foster culture. You have to get, if you want to have a food precinct, you get a restaurant that's already really good somewhere else.

innovationThey know how to run a business and know how to market. They've got that bit sorted. Bring them in. Entice them in, bring a few in, and then make the local businesses come in around them and learn from them. Yep. So you're fostering local business based on the models that actually currently work.

People will come for the big, big ones, and then they will also visit one of the local ones. And so what you do is you start to build this presenter and everyone wins. Everybody wins. Logan is so uniquely placed to do this sort of thing. But you've got to have someone with a vision that can drive that vision forward, and that's why I ran for mayor, not for one of the divisional seats, because the mayor is the person that sets that big vision and then brings everyone along for the ride.

For the last eight years, I've been doing executive coaching, working with the leaders of TAFE or Queensland government or Domino's, big organisations, to work out how they fix their culture, and that's what I teach them how to do. The culture in the council needs some work, right? So again, applying my skills to my schools to better serve me representing the people as a divisional counsellor. What do my skills better serve me at the top? Trying to set the culture from the top down. Because when you try and set the culture from a mid-level, it really is hard. If you've got toxic people at the top, then what tends to happen is that they learn really good lessons about managing up, but there's a struggle and you're never going to get there until you've got the right person at the top.


Josh: Richard Branson and the more close to home Dick Smith. Had the idea of the culture of a business and how it should run and that that is. Dick Smith said, 'One day a month, no matter what level of business you're in, you need to be in one of the stores looking and servicing the people to make sure you're making the right decisions for the right people and see the impacts and the effects of a decision that you've made.'

You know, just pushing paper and ticking boxes. You're actually able to see the flow-on effects and how that has affected that business. With the council and with the people that sits within that council, there is a, I don't know if the right terms or hierarchy, but there is definitely, if you've got a toxic environment that will flow down and if you have a great environment, the people within the environment will promote and back up that council or business or boss or whatever the case is till the cows come home. And that's where there definitely needs to be a bit of a shift in the mindset of the people that are making these big decisions that are impacting the smaller guys. And definitely the smaller guys will carry that through and have a lot more respect for the location that they're in.

And as I said, I love Logan. I see no issues with Logan. I'd love to see more people have the same approach and the same thought on it. 

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Stewart: It’s not bad. It's awesome. One of the things I think we're missing though, and I'll finish up here, is that the Logan has to be the easiest place to do business.

We want our economy to grow. We've got to be the easiest place to do business at the moment. Brisbane is giving waivers to business. There are waiving application fees. They're doing all sorts of stuff to attract more business. We're not. Yeah. We have to not only match them, we have to get smarter than them.

Then we have to use things like your business automation skills and get that. How do we get that into 100,000 businesses? We've got 15,000 businesses in the city, but let's say I went big, well, let's say there are 15,000 businesses. How do we get 15,000 businesses? And this is one of the things that I've learned very early on: work the solution to the size of the problems we spoke before.

If the solution is 15,000 businesses, and you said, I'm gonna run a workshop and you can put 15 people in it. Yeah. You've completely messed them up. What are you doing? You know, you've turned on the light. I want you to get hit the sun. How do we do that sort of stuff? And I think that's the big vision thing that I'm trying to bring into the council.

The guys that I'm running at currently, they're all set in the past. They're talking about the 80s. They're talking about the 90s that they don't realize things like...


Josh: I'm investing in the yellow pages.

Stewart: Drone buses are coming. You know, two years away, we'll be able to get in a little pod, a drone. We'll pick it up and it'll take you somewhere. So, uh, we were doing, uh, measuring distances. It's so crazy. Yeah. You're planning by big league, bigger roads, and the academia will tell you that smarter roads, if you manage the roads with a different way, like you think about how to make the roads, who's carrying what lanes they're in, all this sort of stuff, you get a 30% return on your investment versus a 3% return building a bigger road.

Josh: Yup. Man of my own heart. I was going to say, you've touched on a topic that I think if we actually had smarter control of the way that the lighting for traffic lights work throughout the area, along with not throughout the area being pretty, well, Queensland, probably Australia, but then also took advantage of paint.

It sounds like such a weird thing to do, but that made the lanes a little bit narrow, except for, as you're saying like heavy haul vehicles that might need the left lane. It's a wider lane. If we did things like that, you'd be able to squeeze, if you look at the road from here to Brisbane and extra lane, the entire distance along.

Now, I think if you look and you said 15,000 businesses throughout Logan, if you are running a fantastic, absolutely jaw-dropping, amazing business in Logan, people would come from Brisbane to Logan, and the beautiful thing is they'd be coming to work at a time there's no traffic. You'd be burning those greenhouse gases. You wouldn't be burning the brakes. You wouldn't be burning in the other resources around your car and run consumables there. You'd be running a more efficient lifestyle and be able to spend more time with your family and friends. So that's my sort of 2 cents on that.

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Stewart: Look, I think if we can hit the goal of making Logan the easiest place to do business, the economy will look after itself. We've got to set those big priorities: zero waste schools. Let's try and do that. The upside is all acute, or a lot of our kids will come out with some, a little bit of an extra certificate and maybe we can export that. Like it's a big dream.

Josh: It carries onto their mentality and mindset at home. And that then carries through the parents and see what their children like doing and why they like doing it. And that then affects the whole community. Schools are great to use that as a point because the schools have areas where the home is located close enough to the school. So you know that the impact of changing around their mindset within the schooling system will change around the mindsets within the homes, which will change around the amount of landfill that's going to change around the amount of rubbish. Everything wins. It's just a carry-on effect, butterfly effect, domino effect.


Stewart: If we do it really, really well, we become the centre that others copy. I don't want to do this just for Logan. If we do this really, really well, we can show Townsville how to do it with all your schools. We can be the template for how, who changed the planet.

innovationThere's this idea of lifelong recycling. You're absolutely right: the parents start picking it up. But we're also starting to talk to the schools about how to get more entrepreneurship into the schools. So we've got Logan Junior Chamber of Commerce kicking off. So it's how to get the kids, and not only just get them to think about it now, but provide a pathway for them to move into the adult world of business.

Josh: That's perfect. And that, that's going to set them up for success. As someone who went to school in Logan, I can say that...

Stewart: What school did you go to?

Josh: I went to Winder High School. While I was there, I had my ups and downs, but overall, it's set me up with information technology, and it put me into an environment or I started doing the IT work for the school. I was very, very happy to be able to automate and better a lot of the processes there and have people come underneath me and learn what I had to do and what I was doing. And it's something that is a great opportunity.

Things, as I said again, that are just there that your kids can start doing now. It was much better for mum and dad, to be honest. I was working getting a bit of a coin at the school doing training ship, instead of a friend's going off to McDonald's and having to do the backwards and forwards driving. So any parents listening, totally an advantage. 

Is there anything else, any finishing notes, final thoughts?


Stewart: No. Look, Logan is amazing. I really hope that whoever wins. Hopefully, it's me, but whoever wins actually has the vision and that brings innovation in. If we can vet the innovation and tie that to the multicultural tie, that's the precincts, tie that to the schools. It's kind of the same thing. It's not like I'm not trying to invent seven different things just to solve seven different problems. It's the same sort of problem.

Rinse and repeat. Let's keep going. I think, you know, in three to four years, Logan will be the place that people travel to for work. Logan will be the place that you should've invested four years ago. We're not the worst house in the best street anymore. We're not a drive-thru. We're a destination.

Josh: I could not have said it better. Well, it has been great talking with you and I'm really happy to have had you here. Anyone else that's listening, if you'd like this, jump across to iTunes. Leave us some love. Give us some feedback. Leave us a review.

Let us know what your thoughts are. Stay good.


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