Tuesday, January 27, 2009

In The Museum ...

Conversation overheard at the museum premier of Safiyyah's digital art:


(digital art plug-in courtesy of http://www.dumpr.net/)


Avi said...

Those onlookers sure do make a good point. Hamas today attacked and murdered an Israeli soldier, despite a supposed truce.

Avi said...

And I kinda find it offensive that you should make a claim as to "Orthodox Judaism's position on Zionism" as a Muslim apostate from Judaism. I would invite you to my synagogue and make that claim to my rabbi.

Yasemin said...

Who was talking about the rockets Safiyyah? Ordinary Americans? I'm glad to hear that your putting your great talents on the map!

Safiyyah said...

Shaalom BK:

First of all, to my readers, BK is referring to a comment I made at his blog.

Now, BK - you have missed the point of this image. It is a manipulation of my photography using an online photo plug-in. And the caption was meant to be a sarcasm.

OK, BK. You know that, despite our differences, I would not offend you. I don't think that you can point to an instance where I intentionally offended you. And I appreciate, more than you know, that you have not permitted any of your Zionist commenters to abuse me. And I wouldn't let my commenters abuse you.

You know that I seek to learn. As I am rock solid in my faith in Islam, I do not believe that learning can harm me.

So, if I have offended you, please forgive me.

My great grandparents were Orthodox Jews. They were not Zionists. When they left Poland and Russia, they came to America. They had no interest in making aliya to Palestine/Israel.

Most Muslims believe that Orthodox Jews do not support Zionism. I think it may come from the position of these Orthodox Jews:


You say that these Jews are in the minority. Why do they differ with the "majority" of Orthdox as you claim?

Safiyyah said...

@ Lisa:

Read my comment to Bar Kochba. The photo is my creation. The plug-in puts one of my photographs into a museum frame. The photo in the museum frame is one that I took at a pro-Gaza demonstration. The caption was meant to be sarcastic.

I'm glad that the digital art looks so real, lol!

Yasemin said...

Does Bar Kochba have other blogs besides The Truth and For Zion's Sake?

Anyway, I was trying to wrap my mind around you doing museum demonstrations, your job, Salat, and making time for husband. I'm glad that the museum thing isn't real, though I know you could have handled it effortlessly as well!

I like that your not immune to other viewpoints because your faith is rock-solid. I think that's one of my gripes with hijab blogs that seem interested in preaching to the choir.

Safiyyah said...


Yes, he does. If you click on his name here in the comments, it will take you to his profile page. Scroll to the bottom to see his other blogs.

He'll be back here real soon, I am sure :)

Avi said...

Neturai Karta are an extreme fringe group, consisting of a few thousand followers in New York, Montreal and Jerusalem. They have been condemned by virtually all major mainstream Orthodox groups. They attended the Iranian-sponsored Holocaust denial conference, as well as have celebrated the murder of Jews at the hands of jihadists. Their opinion is completely illegitimate. They would have faded into obscurity if not for the importance that anti-semites and anti-Zionists invest in them. They have been excommunicated from every mainstream Jewish group.

The problem with Zionism and Judaism is one of definition. I see Zionism as not beginning with Herzl but rather with the Jews sitting down by the rivers of Babylon and mourning for Zion. I understand Zionism to be just another aspect of Judaism, just as keeping kosher or observing the sabbath. Nachmanides and many other rabbinic codifiers consider dwelling in and conquering the land of Israel to be one of the 613 commandments of the Torah. Maimonides writes that is preferable to live in a majority non-Jewish city in Israel than a majority Jewish city in the Diaspora. Many great rabbis founded communities and sent their disciples to live in the Land of Israel. A great many of the commandments can only be performed in Israel, and some only when the majority of Jews dwell there.

There are three main reactions to Zionism in the Orthodox world. (I'll generalize for simplicity's sake). Religious Zionists (characterized by their knitted kippot) and modern Orthodox view the state of Israel as "the first flowering of the Deliverance", or the dawn of the Redemption. This is based on the philosophies of the Rav Kook. They believe that the State of Israel, though it is secular, has intrinsic holiness, as do its institutions.

Another group is that of ultra-orthoodox, chareidi and chassidic. Many of them support growth and settlement in the Land of Israel but oppose the government which they see as secular and unholy. They believe that the Zionists have provided the physical framework for the Redemption ie. Ingathering of the Exiles, return of Jewish sovereignty, but they do not associate with the secular state. An example would be Chabad chassidim who would vehemently deny that they are Zionist, yet the Rebbe supported the IDF, opposed territorial withdrawal, etc. Chabad chassidim have been giving relief packages and spiritual support to the soldier in Gaza.

A minority view is that of Satmar which hold that Jews cannot have a sovereign state until the coming of the Messiah. This is a legitimate opinion, although a minority one which we do not hold by. (Judaism allows plurality of opinion, within the framework of Jewish law). They do not, however, deny the holiness of the Land of Israel, and many Satmar chassidim live in Israel.

Safiyyah said...

Shaalom BK:

Thank you for your excellent explanation.

I would also like to ask you some more questions.

1. re: original sovereignty - were the original physical borders the same as they are drawn today?

2. what to do with non-Jewish people living there. If a "two-state" solution could be worked out, is this possible within original sovereign borders?

What to do with these non-Jewish people, BK, as you probably know that they are not going to leave.

Will Israel become like Saudi Arabia where human rights are limited or even denied for non-Muslims?

Thank you so much, BK. I really appreciate what you are sharing.

Hijabee said...

Salam Safiyyah,
You've got an award, check it out!

Sundas said...

I accidentally found your blog on Google. Are you Safiyyah Al Kasabi? I first came to know about you from youtube. Your blog seems really nice and I'm glad that, although you've converted, you're so patient with all those who find ways to try to offend you for it (I've been reading comments). Just the way Islam teaches. God bless you and give you success in this life and the Hereafter.

Safiyyah said...

Salaams Sundas:

No, I'm not her, lol. Insha Allah I'll go to YouTube and check her out when I get a chance.

Hope to see you around here regularly! Jazaka Allahu Khayrn for your comments!

Sundas said...

You're not? Well, it still doesn't matter. Since we're both Muslims, it still makes us sisters!!