Rep. Lois Frankel Is Demanding Congress Investigate Trump’s Alleged Sexual Harassment

"It is a slap in the face to every #MeToo victim to say that the President of the United States is immune to investigation."

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Like many women, Lois Frankel has been heartened by the #MeToo movement. But just because the moment of reckoning with sexual harassment didn't come sooner, the Florida congresswoman says, doesn't mean President Trump's own storied history of alleged abuse should be forgotten.

On Monday, Frankel, a Democrat, called on Congress to investigate the more than a dozen accusations of sexual abuse against the president. In a letter to the House Oversight and Government Reform committee, she and 150 other signees (all Democrats) asked the committee to investigate the reports of sexual misconduct. “The American people,” they wrote, “deserve a full inquiry into the truth of these allegations.” (According to a Quinnipiac poll released last week, 70 percent of Americans agree.)

It's unlikely that the committee, which is both chaired by a Republican and counts more Republicans than Democrats among its ranks, will actually launch a probe into a Republican president. But Frankel isn't deterred. Here, she explains why she's leading the charge for a congressional investigation, her thoughts on Sen. Al Franken's resignation, and why she thinks congressional sexual harassment settlements are actually a good thing.

We've known about these allegations against President Trump for more than a year now. Why send this letter now?

The #MeToo movement has arrived. I think there is a new movement in the country. Sexual abuse is no longer tolerated. We have seen, from Hollywood to the Olympic athletes to the restaurants to the halls of Congress, this flurry of victims coming forward, and just a new way of dealing with these allegations. You see sexual harassment and abuse happening at every level of society. It doesn't know a party, it doesn't seem to know an industry. And it is a slap in the face to every #MeToo victim to say that the President of the United States is immune to investigation.

Has there been any response from the committee?

Yes. We got what I think is a bogus letter that we’re responding to. Basically, Mr. Gowdy [the committee chairman] told us that there are no committees in Congress that prosecute crimes. Our response to him, which is about a page-and-a-half letter, says “Really?” We’re talking about potential criminal activity, but we're not asking you to prosecute a crime. We're asking you to do what the oversight committee does, which is to investigate.

Were you surprised by that, though? He's a Republican. It was unlikely he was going to investigate allegations into a president from his party. I imagine that wasn't shocking for you to hear.

No. What we didn't know would be the excuse, which I think is a dismissive and lame excuse, which is contradicted by historic situations that the committee has looked at. I could give you a dozen where criminal activity [was investigated]. I mean, Benghazi. The Clinton emails. Enron. I could go on and on. To me, it was just dismissive.

But as you know, Gowdy isn't going to do this. It's a majority of Republicans on the committee. Republicans are not going to let this happen. So why bother?

Why bother is because, first of all, I feel like we have a responsibility. This is the process we set up in Congress. You can ask me about anything I do, "Why do I bother to go to committee? Why do I bother to vote?" I'm on the losing end of almost every vote in my chamber. Why do I do a lot of things? We try to do what we think is right. For me, we're pursuing justice. We're responding to this #MeToo movement, and we're responding to the public. And don't think that just because he wrote a dismissive letter that this is going to stop. We're going to write him back, we're going to try to give him another opportunity, and if it doesn't work, we will try to find another forum. We're not going to just throw up our hands and say, “My, oh my.”

What would be the next step if it becomes clear that the oversight committee is not going to take this up?

I think if I start talking about that, it takes any pressure ... I don't want to give Mr. Gowdy any other excuse to not deal with this. So we're going to take it one step at a time. We believe that this is the right forum. The oversight committee has wide jurisdiction. Obviously, if it was a Democratic president, they probably would've all went in on this. But we think it's the right forum, so I'm going to keep pressing it. If that doesn't work, we'll scratch our heads and we'll figure it out.

Trump tweeted yesterday that Sen. Gillibrand would do anything for campaign contributions. Many interpreted it as essentially calling her a whore. This isn't the first time he's made comments like this, and every time something like this happens, there's this moment of outrage, and then we all move on. Do you think this latest attack on Gillibrand amounts to anything?

I think it elevates her. I think he's given her a platform that she may not have had. She happens to be a terrific person — very smart. Let me tell you something: I think you have to be very courageous to be tweeting back at the president because he's got the bully pulpit. He's the most powerful man in the world and I think that he's allowed to Kirsten Gillibrand to show, "Hey, I'm not afraid of the most powerful man in the world. When he disrespects me like he has, I'm going to stand up." I think it's a message to anybody: She's going to stand up for herself and she's standing up for all the #MeToo victims in this country.

I want to ask you about the Alabama Senate race. Obviously, Democrats are very happy about Doug Jones's victory, but Roy Moore, an accused child molester, only lost by one point. What does that say to you about this country, that he came that close to winning despite these accusations?

You could have asked me the same question about how Donald Trump could get elected President of the United States. What happened in Alabama was absolutely historic. I mean, Donald Trump won that state by 40 points, something like that. [Editor's note: He won the state by 28 points.] So I'm not going to say, "Oh, well, Doug Jones just won it by a percentage or two." No, what happened with Doug Jones is he's amazing, and it's a credit to him.

But is that concerning to you that he still, despite these very disturbing allegations, got that close?

No, I — you know what? It's like asking me glass half empty, glass half full. I say glass half full. I say hallelujah that the people in Alabama stood up to a child pervert.

Congressman Trent Franks resigned last week over allegations of sexual harassment, as did Sen. Al Franken. Do you think every politician who is accused of any kind of sexual misconduct should be forced to resign?

No, absolutely not.

Why not?

There should be a process in place where accusers can come forward with privacy, with dignity, and there should be a fair process where they're treated fairly and where whoever's getting accused is treated fairly. To me, that's what I'm focused on. One of the reasons I wrote this letter about the president is because I'm interested in a fair process rather than just calling for his resignation. But I guess a better way to answer your question is: Not every offense is the same. Not every offender is the same. You have to have proportional responses to the offense that is committed.

Do you think it was unfair that Democrats essentially forced out Franken without the ethics inquiry being finished?

I don't know whether I agree with it, but I would say ... I don't think fairness is the issue. Because he made the decision in the end. He could have opted to say "If you think I've done wrong, I'm submitting myself to an ethics investigation."

But Democrats placed an extraordinary amount of pressure on him.

Well, that was — a lot of it was political.

You don't think that was —

There's a difference between fairness and being political. He — I don't know, maybe it sounds too nuanced to you, but I think that if he didn't have another way to get judged, then I would say it wouldn't be fair. But I don't want to play semantics with you. They made a judgment. I don't want to really — I didn't call for his resignation. I had very mixed emotions about it, but I'm not really judgmental about those who did. Maybe they had more information. I don't really know.

In the past month, two congresswomen have testified about sexual abuse in Congress, and it's come to light that Congress has used taxpayer money to settle sexual harassment complaints. Were you surprised to hear that this was going on on the Hill? And as a woman in a male-dominated industry, having been in politics for a long time, have you personally experienced sexual harassment?

It's hard for me to think back throughout my life. I'm sure when I was younger. Listen, I think there's hardly any way that a woman, unless she's, like, hibernating or something, is going [avoid being] insulted. I don't ever remember a molestation or anything like that. I've always been a pretty hardcore feminist, so truthfully, if somebody were to say something I would either kick them where it hurt or — I don't know. I'm only kidding about that. I usually would either say something or ignore it.

In terms of the compensation ... you know, it's funny. I can understand the public's concern about taxpayer money being used. But guess what? Taxpayer money is being used to pay our salary. And the public elects the members to office. And I think what's very important is that we have in Congress, like in any workplace, a respectful workplace. And there have to be policies and procedures in place for that to happen. There's gotta be training and then there has to be interactive training. There also has to be a process. [When] somebody is abused, you come forward privately, without fear. And there has to be accountability. Not only accountability by the offender, but there also has to be accountability to the person who is hurt. … I absolutely believe they should compensated.

So you think that the sexual harassments settlements are a good thing?

I think the institution has to be accountable for the members that are doing this. So I think the victims, number one, should be compensated. The only real way you're going to assure that is if there is a fund to do that.

More broadly, were you surprised that this was so rampant on the Hill? Had you seen this yourself on the Hill?

No. Because if I had, I would have reported it. Absolutely. Am I shocked now to know that it's happening? I'm not shocked, but I just didn't know.

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

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