Arsenal? (courtesy

“Elvin Payamps, 38, of Glendale was inside a TD bank on Metropolitan Avenue Wednesday afternoon when a witness, 54, standing behind on line heard him talking about wanting to kill cops and having guns at his house,” reports. “The witness called 911, but Payamps left the bank before cops could arrive. Police put a description of him over the radio, and he was spotted getting into a car on Metropolitan Avenue. Cops followed the car, and then pulled him over at a nearby intersection on Rentar Plaza. A bag of pot was found near the front seat, and Payamps was arrested.” That’s not all they found. Back in Payamps crib cops confiscated . . .

Two guns, two bulletproof vests, brass knuckles, and a holster (as above).

While we applaud the citizen who dropped the dime on Payamps (it had to be done) and credit the cops for collaring the criminal, we wonder about the New York Post headline hovering above this article: NYPD find arsenal after busting man who ‘talked about killing cops’. 

As TTAG tipster TP wrote, “If this is an arsenal, my coat closet is a battalion supply depot!” To which I’ll add: in the land of the ballistically blind, a man with a shotgun and pistol is King Rat. Or something like that.


  1. Jeez, if someone snitched every time I used a little hyperbole when speaking, or wished ill upon a jackbooted thug, I’d get swatted every day and twice on Mondays.

    • +1

      And they got this guy for possession of some pot and some guns. Would have been a lot better if they got him for attempted murder so he wouldn’t be on the street again… tomorrow.

      • “Would have been a lot better if they got him for attempted murder so he wouldn’t be on the street again… tomorrow.”

        I don’t think you’ve been keeping up. Getting him for attempted murder is no impediment to the revolving door revolving.

        • “I don’t think you’ve been keeping up. Getting him for attempted murder is no impediment to the revolving door revolving.”

          In fact, it makes the door spin even faster. I honestly think he would get *more* time on the weed charge.

        • Looks like the barrel is still at least 18″, and the overall length is at least 26. Nothing to see here. The real issue will be whether or not he was allowed to have those weapons at all. In the city… almost surely not.

        • Looks like a Mossberg 500 with factory 18.5″ barrel and a pistol grip. IIRC, putting the two together gets you a handgun, which needs to be registered as such in police states like NY,

        • I going to disagree with both of you; that barrel looks like it’s around 16 inches long to me, based on the amount protruding past the mounting lug. If so, it’s Club Fed time (if they can get the Feds to prosecute).

          Check this recent TTAG article’s photos, which include a Mossberg 500 barrel that’s 18.5 inches long, and compare how much barrel extends forward of the mounting lug:

          and then compare it to the above photo.

        • I’m going to disagree with both of you; that barrel appears to be around 16 inches long, based on how much is protruding past the mounting lug.

          Check the recent Mossberg 500 contest article posted about three pages back from this article; the photos in that gun test include an 18.5″ Mossberg 500 barrel, and it’s showing about twice as much barrel out past the mounting lug as the one shown above.

          It’s Club Fed for this guy, if they can get the Feds to prosecute (big “IF”, right there).

        • Sorry about the dual reply, above; the system “ate” the first post (no response at all, for several minutes), so I posted a second, slightly different message. Eventually, both posts popped-in.

      • Wouldn’t an “attempted murder” charge require that he actually, you know, attempted to murder someone? Near as I can tell, he’s just guilty of “attempted talking shit”.

        • Yeah, in fact it looks like illegal search, to me, where is the probable cause to search his car in the first place, because he said something? How did they justify pulling him over?

        • Thanks. Got it. And in NYC threatening Talk is apparently like real estate -location, location, location. To think that this guy, had he said the same things in the right part of the Bronx (instead of a branch bank in Queens) could have kept his guns and weed, and they would have waived gang initiation, too. Odd that the kid was so oblivious.

  2. Let’s be real here.

    As far as the antis are concerned, any firearm larger than (the rumored) .22lr, and any quantity in excess of one round of ammunition will be considered an ‘Arsenel’.

  3. How is it they can search his house after a traffic stop that yielded a pot possession? Did the guy say, “I’m leaving after making my deposit and killing some cops.”. If not, how is a fellow citizen dropping dime in this case a good thing? A guy talking tough in jest, no matter how repugnant, isn’t a crime.

    • I’m sure the NYC judge who issued the search warrant has a strong respect for individual liberty, and firmly believes that government must show restraint when…sorry…I couldn’t finish that sentence without laughing.

    • Reggie, did you catch the fact that according to the linked article, the “fellow citizen” that overheard the conversation in the bank was a former NYPD cop?

  4. Notice though that the handgun only has seven rounds next to the magazine, and one by the barrel.
    Apparently the criminal element is complying with the SAFE Act.

    • Well, that shows me. I’m on record as saying the 7 round limit is the stupidest part of the law because no one breaking the law will follow that one. Go figure.

      • I actually think criminals are likely to follow that rule. After all how many friends has the average thug seen go down from gotcha laws? We also know the average criminal shooting involves one or two rounds and the popular guns are low cap hi points mouse guns and revolvers.

  5. If someone says he’s going to kill cops and the threat seems reasonably credible, well, he’s breaking the law. Is the law an infringement on First Amendment protections of free speech? Debatable.

    • Brings up the issue of at what point talking becomes conspiracy. Should require some sort of action along with talk, but that could apply if he got the vests and guns with the intent to use them. Or maybe he made some admissions.

      In any case an arrest is not a conviction and I can see how in this case it’s better to arrest on probable cause since if you let him walk around while you build your case he might end up killing someone.

      • Umm, not “conspiracy”, that requires more than one person and at least one “overt act” in furtherance of the criminal objective. And an “attempt” must include at least one act beyond “mere preparation”.

    • That’s right. Everyone needs to keep a watchful eye on their political hyperbole and funny jokes – otherwise you could get rolled over on the floor for the application of handcuffs by the state. Your funny jokes might be a moment of panic for citizens of the populace.

      It’s also a great excuse for the state to go searching through your stuff for a fishing expedition.

  6. Applaud the citizen?. How much did he know about the information. How did you not know he was having a bad day because he just got a speeding ticket. This seems like a supreme violation of 4th amendment rights. Where was the RAS or PC behind pulling over the person. A witness account has to include specific details of the plot to be consider enough to follow through with an investigation of his person and property. No judge in the world would sign off on a search warrant without this…if we lived in a world where no cop has ever ’embellished’ the reasons for the warrant and judges actually did their jobs.

    • If you don’t think there’s reasonable suspicion for a stop here you are so far outside legal norm that you can’t even see the mainland.

      • Of course you say that. You are nothing but a government thug who thinks that government employees lying as a matter of business is a good thing. Get an honest job.

    • Good points ChiGurh. I’m glad someone was close enough to see the logical mainland. This could definitely be “abused.” Imagine a statist sees a guy open carrying. Calls the cops and says he made some threats. Next thing you know the cops are taking his “illegal” guns because they weren’t 922R complaint.

    • Guy standing in line inside a bank, running his mouth? No way a stop is justified, I suspect this will go away. OTOH, I really have no objection to this, given the recent history with NYPD, investigate the piss out of this guy, make sure he is not going to be the next assassin, then kick him loose.

  7. NSA will likely flag the posters here an search on the email we had to use, locate us in the real world. An bust our chops for our comments.
    But I lost most my arms in a boating accident. With lots of ammo, an I hope this individual can afford a outa state good lawyer. The things I find wrong with the story is outstanding. Like how the cops acted, and the yeller belly citizen who could have been lying…

    • And what makes the citizen “yeller belly”, exactly, about reporting this guy who says he’s going to murder people? He may not have meant it, but if you hear someone talking on a phone about setting off a bomb at a marathon are you going to assume they’re probably just having a bad day and go about your errands?

      • Yep, that’s exactly what I’d do. The odds of overhearing a really dangerous conspirator talking about a terrorist action are dwarfed by the number of guys talking shit to their friends, talking about a film or tv show, making a bad joke, or just blowing off steam. It’s not my job to monitor my fellow citizens with the purpose of turning them in if I hear something I don’t like. Mind your own goddamn business and keep yer trap shut is my motto.

        • Hear, hear! Unless more damning information comes up, I say this is a bad case and the slipperiest of slopes.

        • ” It’s not my job to monitor my fellow citizens”

          So, they are not really “fellow citizens,” then…since society does require a certain degree of connectedness to exist.

          At some point, turning that blind eye to everything crosses over to apathetic, asocial behavior.

        • I vote, I pay taxes, I performed many years of public service and I currently work at a non profit for the mentally ill for far less than I could make elsewhere. What I am not is a spy for the government, who clearly does not have the best interests of average citizens at heart.

      • Why not have one of your government paid liars question him first? You seem to love violating the First Amendment even more than you love lying to citizens.

  8. They called this a small arsenal on the network news. No I don’t know for certain if this pot soaked loud mouth had any real criminal aspirations. He’d be guilty in the 2054 world of Minority Report. Pre-Cog Thought Crime don’tchaknow…

  9. The guy made a threat. This is enough to at least check in on him to see if he’s serious. They found illegal drugs in his car (could be a plant, but there’s nothing to suggest that) and that was reason enough for a search warrant for his home (to look for more drugs). When searching they found the “arsenal”.

    Where it all falls apart is “what cause did they have for searching the car?”

    • “The warm smell of colitas, rising up through the aiiiir…” no doubt justified the car search. Always has. To me, the idea that this can then be strongarmed into a legal home invasion is what’s disturbing.

    • Unless he was talking to a cop at the time, he did not even threaten anyone. He was having a conversation (dunno with whom) but not threatening anyone.

  10. Since the person who made the 911 call is “an ex-NYPD cop”, not just some jerk-off who read MDA’s Blog about calling 911 if they saw a person with a gun in their local Kroger Store. that pretty much explains why he made the call and why NYPD took it seriously.

    Anyway, describing Payamps’ guns possessed as an “arsenal” is pretty laughable, but not surprising given the Media’s bias against gun owners. From the NY Post’s description of Payamps, based on a few “neighbor’s” opinions, it kind of sounds like he was steering his fate in a bad direction. Payamps reminds me of guys I have met over the years. Overbearing loudmouths and always following some compulsion to make themselves sound tough and trying to impress everyone they meet with their self-imagined, grandiose delusions. Prone to ending-up badly. Boorish and best walked away from.

  11. It’s NYC the land of hype, melodramatics and sensationalism…and arsenals.. Including, and up to one and two gun arsenals… and Multiple rounds of ammunition, hell that right there could bring the entire city to it’s knees….

    All this logic coming from tough new yorkers..

  12. Elvin Payamps has a big mouth. That much is obvious. There is a good chance he said something stupid when the cops stopped him which led to his car and home being searched. The busybody that reported his thought crime is a true New Yorker doing what he/she thought was right. I dont think the whistle-blower is a hero, just a brainwashed sheep who happened to do something useful. The recent events in NYC and around the nation probably helped spur the search warrant.


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