29/07/2016 Newsnight


With Kisty Wark. Was the Hinckley Point nuclear power deal paused due to concerns over Chinese involvement? Plus Emily Maitlis watches Hillary Clinton's nomination for President.

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The Chinese President riding high over


the new business relationship with Britain.


But are the wheels coming off the carriage?


Tonight, the Government says it's reviewing


the whole plan for Hinkley Point C, but have concerns about China's true


This former government adviser says it could be


I am confident that Jeremy Corbyn will come out as a leader of Labour


as well as our next Prime Minister at Number 10.


And is the battle for the soul of the Labour Party all


Is the good life really all that good for you?


Celebrity gardener Monty Don pours a pile of manure on the the idea


of self sufficiency from a great height.


If one of you so much as sniggers, I'm going straight back indoors.


And on Artsnight tonight, Lynn Barber meets King


I look at it as a really, really, seriously good achievement.


I wouldn't have given myself the chance at 21.


When the Chinese Premier came to Britain on the first state visit


in a decade last year, it was heralded as a Golden era


Hinkley Point C was to be the first nuclear power station built in the


UK for a generation. Costs rising, and doubts


about whether it was the right technology, when the Chinese came


in to plug the EDF funding gap The Government says it would be


irresponsible if the new Prime Minister, Theresa May,


did not review the deal, but is it China's long


game that's sending alarm bells I'm joined by our Business


Editor, Helen Thomas. There was definitely an element of


surprise. Some senior management at EDS, some board members, they did


not know this statement was coming. There is some dismay on the French


side. They have already spent ?2.5 billion preparing this site. That is


money they do not get back if the deal does not go ahead? Is this


about a general review all the Chinese? The official government


line is this is a new Prime Minister wanting to do her homework. She


wants to be on top of the details but this will take into


consideration all elements of the project, value for money, etc. What


Newsnight has been told is the issue of China and National 's does loom


particularly large in Theresa May's thinking. What we have been told is


that when she was Home Secretary she voiced concerns about the idea of


China investing in nuclear power in this country. She said these


concerns with some of her Cabinet colleagues and these worries were


discussed at the National Security Council, as well as proposals to


give the UK Government more of a hand in vetting foreign investment


in our critical infrastructure. That is not to say the deal will not go


ahead. Greg Clark, the business and Energy Secretary met the companies


today with a reassuring message. But it does feel like this is more than


dotting the eyes and dotting the Tees. Is it Theresa May driving


mess? That is what we are told. If it were the case of mixing the


Chinese money, would anyone else step up to the mark? Hinkley is not


necessarily be concerned. The Chinese are putting money into


Hinkley and not the technology. The concern is what happens further down


the line, the idea of the Chinese reactor in Bradwell. Hinkley needs


?6 billion of Chinese money. EDF has jumped through hoops to try to get


financing in place. They have sold assets and raised funds. They do not


have another 6 billion line spare. If Chinese money is unavailable for


the project, where do you go? One idea, could the new government but


with its new attitude in investing in infrastructure helped to plug


some of that gap? I am joined now by an energy expert


from EDL. Is it a broad, general review or is this about concerns


over Chinese involvement down the line? It looks like a broader view


of what is going on, including questions of French financing and


clarification about the deal which may not be such a good thing for the


UK. Certainly, there are concerns and issues with the idea of letting


China into our critical nuclear infrastructure. And this would be a


case of not letting them into the critical nuclear structure as Helen


said. Now, beyond Hinkley and Sizewell, it would be about building


and controlling a power station in Branwell, would that be right? Yes,


it is. The Chinese are acting as deep pockets to help the French with


Hinkley. We understand later on potentially, if Hinkley comes off,


which it may not, with Sizewell, on the understanding they will be


allowed to build that own home-grown nuclear reactor, build and operate


their own nuclear reactor in Bradwell further down the line. They


see this as a loss leader. Not many people would have that much faith in


Hinkley as a technology. The EPR, the reactor brand that is being


mooted for Hinkley, the two EPR 's which are being built in China.


Unfortunately, there are some significant problems with that


build. On the question of Branwell, what are the dangers question what


is the worst scenario? Our relationships with China can ebb and


flow in the 40 years in nuclear plant runs and powers. China is well


known for seeding data and taking data and for seeding certain kinds


of data in critical structures. This, we are talking about, is


critical nuclear infrastructure. We're not talking about military, we


are talking about civil. Security is actually concerned about this key


issue. Let's be quite clear on this. Is it possible the Chinese could


actually reduce the power coming out of Branwell is they made it? Could


it affect our energy supply? It is theoretically possible. It is


theoretically possible. There are other issues around what kinds of


data they could get from other forms of nuclear plant and what kinds of


data they can push around. It is not simply about shutting down Bradwell,


if Bradwell were ever to be constructed. It is a slightly


broader issue. Remember, there is a slight distinction between people in


the Treasury and people at the MOD. Tell me about that. I understand you


were in a meeting with military chiefs where there was a concern


about this. Absolutely. It is a long discussion and a well rehearsed


discussion. It is a discussion that needs to be ongoing. The Treasury,


you could argue, is more concerned about the money. Tell me, what was


the concern of the military? China is not necessarily militarily a


friendly nation to us. It is all well and good to do trade with them


and critically important, nuclear is different. It is a different form of


technology with different risks, different problems, issues and


concerns that it is a critical nuclear infrastructure. America


would not let China within 100 miles of their critical nuclear


infrastructure. Is it your view that this is a Chinese Trojan horse?


Certainly, it is a loss leader for China. It has no great expectations


for Hinkley. It wants to get into the UK market in order to


potentially then expand its nuclear export elsewhere. Thank you very


much indeed for joining us. Hillary Clinton will be desperately


hoping for a post Convention poll bounce that she can capitalise


on after she formally accepted the Democratic presidential


nomination last night, so today she headed straight out


on a bus tour of two "Rust Belt" swing states -


Pennsylvania, where she's narrowly ahead of Donald Trump and Ohio


where they are tied. Trump is in another swing


state, Colorado, today. Will either of these hugely


divisive candidates, who are groundbreakingly unpopular


in their own party, actually be able to get the vote out


after a rancorous Primary season? And might the disillusionment


be such that the Green candidate, Jill Stein,


and the Independent, Gary Johnson, Emily charts how the next three


months might play out. My hero and our next


president, Hillary Clinton. In Philadelphia, the birthplace


of American democracy, introduced by the only


person who can call her mum, Hillary Clinton cemented her


own place in history. When any barrier falls in America,




ceilings, the sky is the limit. She reached across the aisle not


just to Republicans, but to her own party,


telling Sanders supporters, Clinton's speech marks the end


of the convention and the beginning of the general


election campaign. But once the dust has settled


and the air has gone out of hundreds of balloons,


then the real work begins. How to mobilise the vote


and talk to a people who feel I catch up with


Nancy Pelosi, to date America's highest-ranking


female politician. I know about power,


I know about Hillary. She just happens to be a woman


and that makes it very exciting. Do you think the Democrats have


captured that message of optimism? I think so.


I think so. It's a question of


turning out the vote. Messaging is one thing.


Voter turnout is another one. You can't have turnout


without the message. Having a strong message of economic


security for all Americans, And to communicate that to people


so they understand what is in I'm worried about those people


who have become cynical and say, "It's not going to make any


difference what my vote is." Or the ones who say that


Donald Trump will win Those are people that we really


have to be careful about. We also need to be


concerned about people that have just become so disgusted


with government, that they just kind There are parts of


Philadelphia that look They call this the Valley,


gangland in the 1970s. Rough and poor.


But it's nice. Bernard was a former


gang member here. We was on lots of drugs


and things like that. We had to do this


stuff at a young age. We didn't know nothing.


Actually, we didn't know no better. So we wised up, not only living


in poverty and growing up in it, we became young juvenile


delinquents, drug abuse delinquents. There are still no-go


areas, but electorally The black American vote


galvanised behind Clinton. It's very important.


Trump is a racist. I think she will probably


make a difference. We've had the men,


it's time for a woman now. In recent times turnout in this


city has been abysmal. Last year, its citizens


were offered the chance to win Now though, it is not the apathetics


you meet, but the angry. Those once hungry for


politics who know haven't I just really oppose both


of the main candidates. They put me to work at Gino's,


the cheese steak institution that has become a rite


of passage for politicians. Bill Clinton campaigned


at that point. One of their - or should I say


my - customers, feels let down by the whole lot.


Will you be voting in November? No.


Nobody's vote counts. That's why 70% of eligible


voters don't vote. I mean, it doesn't make any


difference who you get. The people pulling the puppet


strings are the same group. So it's crazy to think that -


if they say they're going to do something,


they won't, if they say they're not going to do


something, they will. It doesn't matter if


it's a Republican or Joseph, who formerly backed


Bernie, now favours the Libertarian candidate,


Gary Johnson, an independent. He wants to be president


because he wants to live in a country where an interracial,


newly married gay couple can fly the Confederate flag out front


and grow marijuana in the back without the government stepping


in to tell them what to do. But to do that this time


round, he says, would be viewed as treachery.


And that's is the big unknown. Will the popularity of each main


candidate make people stay at home? There are people who have been


totally put off because of the last 18 months and the


discourse we have seen. While no, we've had actually


a very good turnout. And I think it bodes well for a good


turnout at the election because people know


the stake is high. In other words, perhaps fear


of the other outweighs frustration. can be as powerful a force


as voting for. Bitter political fights aren't


confined to the other But here the vicious


battle is between two men on the same side,


and here, the gap in support for Corbyn and Smith appears to be


widening not narrowing. This week Owen Smith promised a cold


eyed practical socialist revolution, words that could have come out


of the mouth of Jeremy Corybn, and by the tally of CLPs it looks


like if anyone is going to deliver Lewis Goodall has been in York this


evening to watch a Corbyn rally, and to look at the increasing


divide between Labour parties in the north -


and those in the capital. Up and down the country Jeremy


Corbyn's foot soldiers are busy fighting their second leadership


battle in under a year. For them, their leader has lost none of its


lustre. He feels -- makes me feel quite proud. I feel like he cares


about everyone. He has policies I agree with, including an end to


Trident, an end to austerity and increasing investment in our


infrastructure. A lot of people are suffering and Jeremy knows what is


best for people like me. I am confident that Jeremy Corbyn Time


now to get the news, travel and weather where you are. Out as leader


of Labour as well as the next Prime Minister. Support for Jeremy Corbyn


in York appears undiminished. They are expecting about a thousand


people here tonight. It's hard to imagine another politician of that


could be set. For example, Owen Smith managed to attract 200 to one


of his rallies last night. Many local Labour Party 's remains solid


behind their leader. This area near Leeds nominated Jeremy Corbyn last


year. They are not tempted by Owen Smith. Why should I be? Jeremy's


conviction has not changed in 12 months. I voted for Jeremy 12 months


ago and I will do so again. There are a lot of members who may not


have supported him at the last meeting but on the principle of


democracy within the party will be supporting him now. Entirely because


there is this feeling that democracy has been undermined. Very few people


attacking Jeremy now because of his politics are finding inventive ways


to attack him because of his personality, his demeanour, his


character. My view simply is that he is an honest, authentic politician,


who has always held his views, expressed them honestly and


continues to do so. Joining the European referendum there was a


disconnect between the party based in London and the party in places


like Yorkshire. I've got many friends down there who are quite


anti-corporate. -- against Corbyn. They can't understand why people


like me are still backing him. Similarly I have got friends across


Yorkshire and can't understand why comrades in London are against him.


That sense of geographic divide between North and South is reflected


by the numbers. We have now had nominations for a leader from 63


local constituency parties. The clear majority, 51, have plumped for


Jeremy Corbyn, including Pudsey and Chesterfield. Yet of those which


have opted for Owen Smith, two thirds are in London, which is not


surprising when you consider that polling shows that among Labour


Party members support for Jeremy Corbyn is weaker in London than


anywhere else. That is potentially hugely significant because around


half of all Labour members are in London and the South of England. If


Owen Smith can take advantage of that, and many of those 185,000 new


Labour members in the last couple of weeks are also in London, there am


-- then maybe, just maybe he has a chance in this contest. Richmond


Park Labour Party in south-west London nominated Jeremy Corbyn in


2015. This time they are backing Smith. I think a lot of it was down


to Jeremy's position on the European Referendum Bill stop I think a lot


of people in Richmond, a lot of them are in professional services, they


could see the benefits of staying in the European Union. If you think


about a lot of the reasons people voted to leave comment terms of


immigration, a lot of people in London have had a better experience


of immigration and have not been adversely affected. There was a


strong Remain camp in Richmond and many people felt that Jeremy had not


been as positive in the campaign as he could have been, particularly at


the start. And at some of the campaign launches. People are


frustrated about how quiet he had been in the beginning and eventually


when he came out in support of it, he sounded apathetic. He was not


making ace Gronk, loud coherent case. People said that while they


voted a lot of his views, they didn't feel that he was a person


could lead the party to victory in the general election. He is excited.


It's an irony that a politician synonymous with metropolitan London


should be weakest in his own city and strongest in the industrial


north. When the votes are counted, the chances are even a London


rebellion will not be enough to stop a second Jeremy Corbyn tight. --


tide. I'm joined now by two


seasoned Labour-watchers - Ellie Mae O'Hagan, a columnist


with the Guardian, and Conor Pope Ellie Mae, you want a left leader.


What Owen Smith is offering is practical, cold-blooded socialism.


He can command more of the Westminster MPs and form an


effective opposition. Why do you not back him? I think the problem with


Owen Smith is that he has run on a platform of competence. He said that


he is going to run on a platform as competence on the same principles as


Jeremy Corbyn. That is very difficult for Corbyn supporters to


believe in. They feel is campaign has been lacklustre. I don't feel he


understands the constituency of people he is trying to appeal to.


Also, the circumstances in which is leadership is taking place. It is


perceived as hostile and anti-democratic, and driven by a


wing of the party that has been hostile to Jeremy Corbyn from the


outset. In those circumstances it is very hard for anybody who belongs to


the Labour left, who wants a left-wing leader, to back anybody


like Owen Smith, despite the fact is policy platform is quite impressive.


I would have voted for it a few years ago. Isn't it interesting that


the CLP membership coalescing around Jeremy Corbyn, and yet the opinion


polls say only 13% believe that Jeremy Corbyn is effective at


tackling the government. So Owen Smith has failed to build on that?


The Labour Party is not in a hugely different place to where it was a


year ago. What a lot of Labour Party members did then was they voted for


Jeremy Corbyn because they felt he was offering something different.


All of the other candidates said, we are more likely to win an election.


They looked at them and thought, none of you will win an election.


When you look at the polls now, Labour is so far behind. Is about


redefining labour though? A huge priority of the Corbyn platform is


redefining the Labour Party. Who they stand for and who they


represent. It is about the heart of the Labour Party now. It is not


about winning an election. It is about redefining who you are. It is


about all these people who have joined the party. That is what they


want. Is that what the voters want? It is very good to sit on national


TV and to say I have spoken to hundreds of Corbyn supporters and


actually, this idea that Corbyn supporters are not pragmatic, that


they are away with the fairies and just want to embrace these pure


left-wing ideals, is not true. They look at the lay of the land. They


think, we probably won't win with Owen Smith, we didn't win with Ed


Miliband. The other three candidates in the leadership election didn't


look like they could win an election. We have been failed by the


Labour Party. We have been pushed out of the Labour Party for 30


years. This is our chance to actually have a debate about how we


reform Society within the party that we are a part of. That is what is


driving them. I definitely have not met any Labour supporters who are


not worried about a split and not worried about the election. They


are. But they are being driven by Ola Mulders at the moment. It is not


about a lack of pragmatism. -- other motives. The split between Labour in


London, where this new phalanx of 185,000 members are coming in, this


would seem to be the natural heartland, and yet he is not taking


that? This stuff about the EU referendum is absolutely right. If


you look where Remain were strong, it was in London. A lot of Labour


Party members might feel aggrieved that the party did not do more in


terms of trying to win that referendum. There is a bigger


problem. If you look at the traditional working class heartlands


that have been his party's base for 100 years, and they voted out, 95%


of MPs were voting Remain. Not only is there a disconnect between the


MPs and the CLPs, there is a disconnect between the MPs and the


voters? Absolutely. There is no appetite for a split within the


Labour Party. You could have a centre-left party, which are being


wiped out across Europe, and a hard left party led by Jeremy Corbyn,


neither of which address the problems. In the daily Telegraph


tomorrow morning, Senior Labour revels, so convinced Jeremy Corbyn


will win, they are going to launch a legal bid for the name of the Labour


Party. I think it is a possibility. Rumours fly around Westminster all


the time. We will take it with a pinch of salt. If the Labour rebels


decided to do that, that would be an absurdity. It would confine the


Labour Party to electoral oblivion for a very long time. What is


interesting to me is, when Labour rebels talk about why they are


launching an attack that Jeremy Corbyn, they say it is because we


want to win an election. If that is true, they will do something that


will destroy the party for decades. I don't think there will be a split.


There has been talk about having an alternative leader in parliament for


a while. There is no written constitution. This is unprecedented.


It looks like John Bercow is good -- not going to look particularly


kindly upon it and say, sort out your own party. Thank you.


The kale was put among the courgettes today


when the gardener, Monty Don, wrote in that most august of journals,


BBC Gardeners World Magazine, that self sufficiency


consigns you to a life of dreary repetition,


terrible food and, at worst your teeth fall out,


your breath stinks and you erupt in boils.


And to make matters worse, he poured manure all over the '70sTV


sitcom, The Good Life, opening that he found Tom


Maybe everything in the garden isn't lovely, after all.


Talking of which, here's Stephen Smith.


You can use nettles for hundreds of things.


The Good Life was one of the most popular and best


Let's just pause there a minute and imagine what that


It was the story of suburbanites, who went


I would find yourself some dock leaves.


Today, TV's Mister Gardening, and a great


personal friend of this programme, dropped a metaphorical Agent Orange


overrode the hard won crops of Tom and Barbara Good.


If the sound of Monty Don's voice has woken you up, I'm


sorry, it's not Gardner's World, it's Newsnight.


But we are talking about the great Don and his


explosive remarks today about self-sufficiency.


I might have referred to halitosis, boils and


There have actually been serious attempts at this.


What they found was they desperately missed all kinds of things like


If they went for 80% self-sufficiency, that was enough.


# We stopped beside a little flower storm.#


Just here we've got Portuguese cabbage.


Behind, we've got onion, carrots, beans.


On that side will have tomatoes, squashes, pumpkin,


lovely asparagus, that look like a forest right now.


We took a trug and a kneeler to these allotment gardens


We had cows, we had pigs, we had chickens.


When I think of it, we bought very, very little.


Maybe self-sufficiency would work in France,


where you're from because people would do a ten, 15 hour week,


Mind you, we are much happier than you, so...


You can grow a lot but probably not enough.


The good news is that nowadays you don't need to be


Gardening has moved from survival gardening to


pleasure gardening, learning gardening and a community gardening.


In the past, when people did live in this way,


It would depend on where they lived and what they were


farming themselves and what they could grow themselves


Don't forget to ask Margo to talk to the


chickens while she is feeding them because they do like it.


I can't vouch for the actual content of the conversation.


Well, the truth was, I didn't enjoy watching it.


I don't understand why people make such a thing about it.


I found the lead characters, attempting self-sufficiency,


So, that's the thumbs down from Monty to all


Sorry you had to crank up the generator and


burn a load of pig slurry to hear it from us.


Fresh from a European tour and with a new album,


John Lydon discusses his life and legacy with Lynn Barber.


Has 40 years of life on the road changed him?


Unsurprisngly you can expect strong language from the start.


MUSIC: Pretty Vacant by The Sex Pistols


and I must have interviewed hundreds of people by now.


With Kisty Wark. Was the Hinckley Point nuclear power deal paused due to security concerns over Chinese involvement? Plus Emily Maitlis watches Hillary Clinton nominated for President and Lewis Goodall investigates local Labour party support for Jeremy Corbyn.

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