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Ukrainian passenger plane carrying 180 people 'crashes near Tehran'

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A Ukrainian passenger plane carrying 180 passengers and crew has crashed near Tehran. ( Mais...

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迪 兰 12
another missile attack?
Mike Atkins 5
An educated guess would have said yes yesterday, and apparently it is a fact.
john kilcher -5
Yessirree, very similar to the Swissair off Long Island some 20 years ago.
Michael Osmers 4
How is it similar? Swissair was a confirmed uncontrolled fire an unsuccessful 15 minute divert...
Samuel Bixler 2
I think he might mean TWA 800...
David Carr 0
Also the TWA 800.
The Swissair flight was off Nova Scotia in Canada
antennaman -2
Correct. Swiss Air was an inflight entertainment system fire that got out of control TWA800 was shot down by the govt during training drills
Michael Osmers 5
That certainly wasn’t in the accident report!
sparkie624 -4
Sure was... Lots of witness's and they tried to debunk them so they would be discredited, but could not... TWA800 was a total Clinton Lie because it was an election year.
David Rice 4
Assumes facts not in evidence, re: TWA800.
Harry Venison 1
Take it easy Sparky. Your traitor has surpassed any pres in history for lying.
Dan Grelinger 2
“If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan”.....
bentwing60 3
Only when their lips are moving.
WhiteKnight77 1
All politicians are liars.
Steve Western 1
Not at all, read the final report at the Canadian Transportation Safety Board website. Below is a small portion of the report tying the IFEN to the fire
“ A segment of in-flight entertainment network (IFEN) power supply unit cable (1-3791) exhibited a region of resolidified copper on one wire that was caused by an arcing event. This resolidified copper was determined to be located near manufacturing station 383, in the area where the fire most likely originated. This arc was likely associated with the fire initiation event; however, it could not be determined whether this arced wire was the lead event.”
Hans Siegl 12
Warfare and civil aviation never go well together, just check the last 30 years. It´s the airlines who are to blame as well as the shootists. They should quit flying into those critical areas upon the first missile-firing, but greed is the motor.
I experienced this in my 30+ years as airline pilot with a national European airline - we were the first in as soon as the shooting dissipated and the last out long after the shooting started.
James Cross 5
FWIW, Lufthansa has already canceled their flights to Iran. The flight yesterday returned to FRA halfway through the flight.
josef Sonntag 1
Hello Hans,

As a former pilot I totally agree with you. The disrespect and carelessness of Ukrainian airline.
are a significant factor in the event.
It is clear to everyone that after the assault, the Iranians will be tense and nervous.
It is clear to everyone that the plane had to be in motion in a dangerous airspace on a flight from Tehran to Kiev.

Just an airline sub leve
Protoavis 12
Taking off just 2 hours after a large missile attack on a neighboring Country on one of the largest Military powers in the World. Knowing the anti-aircraft batteries are manned by high school educated warriors on high alert. Not wise and from a Country the day before reminded us of our shoot-down of an Iranian airliner a couple decades back. No wonder they want to hold the Black Boxes as they can’t grasp why World doesn’t want them to obtain a nuke.
Kevin Keswick 15
Video of the Ukraine jet falling from the sky in a ball of flames
sparkie624 12
That is not caused by an Engine Fire... and the ball of fire coming down comes from an Explosion... IMHO.... Somebody is putting up a smoke screen.
RIP PS752/UIA752
Wolfgang Prigge 4
138 of the passengers had Canada as their final destination. Many of the 63 holding Canadian passports were of dual citizenship, and most of them had university degrees.
josef Sonntag 4
Despite all the Russian-assisted denials, the plane is likely to have been shot down by the Iranians
Those on their part who are false liars will do anything to erase their mistake
che mex 2
reminds me of the Iran Air Airbus shot down by the US navy ( a mistake as to the nature of the target but intentional as to the shooting) and the Libyan Arab airlines jet shot down by the Israeli military....
bbabis 7
So, Tehran shot down a Ukrainian airliner. We'll see how that works out for them.
Larry Toler 2
Caught in the crossfire perhaps?
Kevin Keswick 7
Here is a flight track for the Jet - it only reached 8000 feet before falling out of the sky - VERY VERY weird for this to happen on the same night Iran attacks US bases in Iraq
Sam Raymond 6
You know, adsb reports like every few seconds, even on my little Cessna's. It shows that's adsb reporting and it'll be a nice system and it has to at least update every few seconds, Why does it suddenly stop on the flight tracking? It would show the speed/decent as it went down, the video people have shown of it on fire shows a decent to crash of course but not vertically. Even if it was vertically that would still be enough time to show some more hits on the flight tracking.

That's a bit bizarre personally. The adsb is very basic it's a box and can be a very small box mounted within the plane, on GA planes it can even be mounted on the wingtip it's that small.
It simply needs an external GPS/WAAS antenna the size of your wallet, connected to this small box which then feeds to the transponder paired with some good old electricity.

Just to clarify, ADSB basically reports GPS co-ordinates, altitude data from the encoding transponder, a tail number assigned to the ICAO code, speed, basically designed for aircraft tracking and air traffic purposes.

There seem to be a few reporting stations in that area and failing that MLAT can bounce, aircraft > aircraft > reporting station through multiple aircraft to reach a ground station even to GA aircraft the same system is used by both airlines and General aviation. 100's of thousands of stations have been set up privately that feed into this network, I have one on my building myself. They are common even out there in the sticks, it costs like $100 or some websites hand them out for free to benefit their website and add coverage.

So, did it just not update for what looks like at least 30 seconds? Unlikely when it's so rapid normally.

Did the small box that is mounted internally and near the transponder so I'd imagine up front in the cockpit get hit by something? Alternatively, If it's a new system it probably had to be directly connected into the console behind the screens if it's anything like the glass cockpit in GA systems ADSB upgrades we had recently.

Did the aircraft lose electrical power as the result of some damage from the engine?

The radarbox24 link Kevin provided showed updates from this plane as it took off about every 10 seconds from adsb when I counted it out, unless the plane gets in trouble at exactly 10 seconds it would have had to hit the ground or go so low to the terrain that it couldn't transmit within let's say 20 seconds to give a massive benefit of the doubt.

Just for reference, my ADSB antenna mounted at about 30ft off the ground picks up multiple aircraft in excess of 250 miles away via MLat so Multi-Lateral aircraft to aircraft to ground to my very antenna on a daily basis in large numbers. So at 8,000 feet, that signal is reaching an internet-connected antenna I can guarantee with full certainty that it would.

Personally I believe the only way that the signal is getting cut off like that with an ADSB device is cutting the power to it or damaging the cabling/box between the transponder/adsb box/gps / waas antenna or damage to any of those components.

Just my thoughts at 3.30am.

Roger Anderson 2
The climb looks pretty nominal as well.
Jason Bell 1
The ADS-B quit at 7350' asl. What "8000 feet"?

The B738 didn't fall out of the sky. The pilots turned around for an emergency return back to OIIE. A witness on the ground filmed the last moments of the B738 on fire with a cellphone. Other aircraft traffic reported the same fire.

The B738 somehow caught fire, remaining in wings level flight but losing altitude until the bitter end, preceded by visible fuel/air backfire and two fuel explosions.
Gary Bain 0
Guess you got that one wrong eh Jason?
Kevin Keswick 3
Here are details on the jet that went down - it was less than 4 years old
Robert Jennings 3
Puzzling why LH600 FRA-IKA even boarded/departed. What was the company thinking!!!! Revenue???
Heatseekerws6 6
Pictures of a wing and fuselage show penetrations originating from the exterior side. I think it got locked onto by Iranian surface to air defenses that were waiting for a US retaliation- dooming it as soon as it took off.
Greg S 9
Possibly. Iran says it won't provide the black boxes to Boeing. That could be because we're practically at war with Iran, or it could be because they are trying to cover it up. But note that an AA launch and intercept at 8,000 feet be seen by many, many people and that would leak out all over social media.

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Why would you think that?
The Ukrainian Embassy thinks that it was caused by a mechanical failure, and then, the Iranian government thinks a rocket was shot towards it.

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Harold Berk 7
Threatening to kill members of Congress is a federal offense, and you should be reported to the FBI.
Wilbur Wright 6
Son, you best consider deleting this shit.
Rich Pasco 3
It’s not like they haven’t done it before.
joel wiley 1
There is a character limit to posts so you can't include all that the various sides could nominate for your 'solution'
So, turns out it WAS shot down.....

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Wilbur Wright 0
That's a pretty extraordinary claim that I haven't heard anywhere else. Got a link?

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Christian Parada 4
The surface to air missiles Ukraine possesses are the Russian-designed BUK missile systems that have a maximum altitude of 25 kilometers. The largest weapons the US has supplied to Ukraine up until now have been the FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missiles that can reach a maximum altitude of 60 meters. The plane started to come down when it was around 8,000 feet.
sparkie624 2
That rules out the Javelin
Heatseekerws6 3
There's a number of Anti-Aircraft Artillery guns that can reach that altitude and higher. Could have been AAA or a surface-to-air missile.

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It was either a missile attack or a mechanical failure.
joel wiley 4
or a mechanical failure subsequent to an adjacent missile explosion.
sparkie624 8
Yeah.... The engine exploded and caught fire due to the injection of foreign matter that just happened to contain high explosive.
Larry Toler 4
ððð that mid air FOD is a bitch.
joel wiley 2
Awfully high for stepping on a surplus land mine.
jammen737 7
So every time there is an incident involving Boeing, they are now under pressure. How frustrating it must be for Boeing.
VKSheridan 7
Every time there is an incident, every aircraft manufacturer should embrace it as an opportunity to use the findings to improve their product. I certainly hope Boeing’s frustration is focused more on the questionable decisions made to the Max than this.
Chris B 4
Just taken off, gets to 8000ft and falls to ground in almost in one piece in flames if video is to be believed.

Hmmm..with all the interesting nationalities (Iran, Ukraine, etc) involved, have to wonder whether we'll ever get to the truth on this one.
Flavius Toader 4
Last night about two hours after the crash, when I checked FlightAware, it was showing this flight and airplane midair about two hours into the flight, just like tracking a normal flight midway to its destination. However, Flighradar24 was showing exactly the path from take off to where the airplane crashed. So why was FlightAware different? I double checked and triple checked comparing the two sites. I wish I took some screen shots.
bbabis 4
I've seen my airplane in 45 minutes into my planned flight on FA while looking at it sit on the ramp. Things happen.
RECOR10 -4
Sure, what again is the code word? >wink wink<. I will meet you over on the "dark web" to raitfy the plans...........
Heatseekerws6 2
Does FlightAware show the plot lines/paths flights on the maps to some extent based off the filed flight plan vs ADS-b/radar tracking?
Greg Daley 1
I noticed the same thing-thought the flight had been removed, but there it was, 08 Jan, underway and 3 some hours in and the map backing it up. I do think there was something on screen stating “estimated”, or the like, but the flight data had only 6 data points from 6:12 am to 6:14 am. I’d post a screen shot but I don’t think it’s possible.
I did that a few years ago with MH370....that path had the flight going into China. Few hours later....gone.
John Pasin 2
Why was a commercial airliner allowed the green light to fly after ALL these missiles where flying to US bases in Iraq?

The AIRLINE should not have put it up there!!!

The Iranians should NEVER have let it take off!!!

This baffles all logic!!!

What a world we live in!!!
mmc7090 2
I'm confused?

WhiteKnight77 1
About what? Iran first claimed engine failure, but how could they know so soon after it happened?
Lawrence Green 2
Iran Minister says 'human error' caused by 'US Adventurism' led to deadly crash of Ukranian jetliner.
So ... this is an admission of guilt by Iran. Iran is guilty ... face the penalty ... and let the world observe. Human error of this magnitude is unacceptable.
joel wiley 1
What level of human error do you find acceptable?
Michael Mitchell 2
This is truly a sad event, yet we have to be careful in drawing too many comparisons. I could understand the Iranians shooting down an INCOMING flight, but who cleared the Ukrainian flight to TAKE OFF in the first place? This is not a failure of equipment but one of human decision making and human systems. The Iranian Airbus turned its transponder off thereby asking for trouble flying in a "hot zone." I agree, there's plenty of evidence to question Tehran's decision making skills. Political ideology is always second to religious zealotry in accounting for historically poor outcomes.
Michael Mitchell 1
Just most of the popular press, including NPR.
VKSheridan 1
I’m not sure it’s been confirmed the transponder was de-energized. Do you have a source confirming that?
Samuel Bixler 1
He's referring to the Iran Air A300 shot down by US forces over the Persian Gulf in 1988, contrasting it with the current situation.
VKSheridan 1
Here’s what Flightradar24 captured which shows the transponder broadcasting from taxi to missile strike:
Chris Bryant 5
I've read that Tehran refuses to hand over the "black boxes" to Boeing or anyone else.

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VKSheridan 3
Unless I’m mistaken, the plane was Ukrainian so assisting Ukraine shouldn’t be relevant to sanctions against Iran.
bentwing60 5
I question you knowledge of ICAO international agreements in general, and why they would turn them over to Boeing specifically. The accident occurred on foreign sovereign soil, non U.S., and thus the country in which it occurred and their aviation civil authority is charged with the investigation, unless they agree to defer and bring in an outside national authority. NTSB, EASA, whomever. Fat chance! Boeing is not one, but under normal protocols, would be in on the investigation as the manufacturer of the airframe, as well as CFM vis. a vis. the powerplants. Not to mention the Ukrainian investigative authority as the nation of origin of the air carrier. Your AB claim is a gas light. Also an airframe manufacturer, not a civil authority. Iranian airlines have lost operational authority, rights to fly to other countries, all over the the civilised world and their investigative body is just as suspect. You wouldn't want them for a neighbor.

The ICAO agreements have always depended on a certain level of civility that is sorely lacking in todays world and 'you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube'. Their resolution authority is the UN.

The UN, not exactly the current model of international harmony!
Mike Atkins 2
"The UN, not exactly the current model of international harmony!"

Why is it so easy to blame the United Nations when the current American isolationism is simply failing our nation?
bentwing60 1
Susan Rice, is that you?
Brad Littlejohn 0
They already announced that hostilities and sanctions would prevent them from helping, despite the agreements you mentioned.
bentwing60 -3
So, while we are reinventing the new SJW justification for why nothing really matters anymore under previous agreements and protocols, what do you really stick up for?
Brad Littlejohn 2
All I am saying is that they are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. There is no way they can come out looking clean, especially for doing the right thing. Do I think they should help? yes. do I think they should violate US Sanctions to help? yes. The issue is, would those sanctions be there if the situation weren't already escalated due to politics.
bentwing60 2

Since when is shootin' down a foreign air carriers 737, "the right thing".
sharon bias 3
Five years after MH17 crashed in the Ukraine, 4 people were just charged with murder. It appears a trigger happy Russian soldier shot the plane down. All of his superiors were charged. Given the political tension in Iran right now, I wouldn't be surprised that some young, under-trained Iranian soldier caused this disaster. As actor Fred Thompson said in the Hunt for Red October, "Admiral Josh Painter: This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
Greg S 8
After about 2 days everybody understood a few things: 1) it was of course a mistake. No matter how much we demonize our adversaries there was no reason to shoot down a civilian airliner; 2) the Russians had shot down a Ukrainian military transport a few days previously, so this was likely what they mistook MH-17 for; and 3) the entire missile battery and its C2 was controlled by the Russian government and its troops. No way are they going simply hand a Buk battery to their proxies in the area.

The only surprising thing was that the Russians continued to deny it. It was downright bizarre. In the days following the shoot down an enormous amount of photographic and written evidence was found on publicly available sites like social media (Vk was a treasure trove) providing incontrovertible proof. The British website Bellingcat took this evidence a step further and identified the people, places, equipment, timelines, and movements of the equipment between a particular Russian battalion and their base in Russia to/from the location of the Buk when the missile was launched. The Russian denials became increasingly bizarre. It was almost as if Russia decided it was too poor to own up to its mistake and pay the enormous compensation.
Mike Atkins 2
It isn't political it's turned military .
Larry Toler 2
Stay in any military long enough, life does get political. That's the quickest way to make rank to stay on top of that agenda. They probably didn't mean to shoot the plane down. Not funny, but damn, no NOTAM about rockets flying in said airspace?

Mehir to Ivan, "Stop and hold, some shit is aboit to go down."
Ivan to Mehir, "No bro, I got to get back to Kiev, just direct me around it. We all good."
Mehir,"Okay then." At the same time Mehir is thinking "What an idiot."
Nathan NKOT 3
Even if it is Iran's responsibility, the United States must stop thinking that it can do what it wants where it wants it.
We have to stop these rogue behaviors, where we have to take by force what does not belong to us, by narcissistically declaring that we have bigger bombs
Whenever normally elected leaders say no, no, they act to destabilize countries under the banner of democracy.
Everyone must save their country my dear friends.
There is no reason to cross thousands of kilometers to go and create bases all over the world, by walking every time on IN texts
David Rice 2
Grow up. You seem to live in a fantasy world. You state “...whenever normally elected leaders say no, no, they act to destabilize...”. Your supposition is childlike.
Jim DeTour 2
History of the airline and country is agreeable with flying civilian aircrafts through a warzone. There is also a history of the two being in for the money.

History of the day is more restriction on Iran. Was Ukraine informed of air travel being restricted so they wanted their plane out of Iran before it would be grounded for years there?

History of the night is a battle starting up. America employees heavy jamming via drones and satellites blocking radio and radar with spoofing decoy targets.

It's easy to decide to risk flying through that environment. It's not easy to survive.

Last I knew microwave and even HF can induce electrical currents on wires so jamming has a possibility in tripping the igniters of a rocket. I've got a does all coffee maker with alarm clock timed grinding and brewing that goes nuts clicking and clacking away when I'm on HF sending 75 watts of CW. I also remember Ukraine had another plane in their country shot down. Sad days.
WhiteKnight77 1
The new video showing a rising ball of fire hitting something and making an even bigger explosion looks very similar to the Patriot missile shootdowns of Scud missles during Operation Desert Shield. The only reason for a plane to lose electricity and then crash is a shootdown where the engine is hit and part of the wing falls off, in this case the right one.

That the crash site was to the right of the track tells us that the right wing came off and the left wing was the only one providing lift.
Lawrence Green 1
Suspicious ... guilty of a deliberate and planned attack.
lynx318 1
Latest is a SAM. My guess is a trigger happy low rank military ground pounder, after the rocket attack launch, but I can only speculate so far. This smacks of MH17 incident. Supposedly reports of an infrared track on something heading at the plane.
Many people do not know about advisories concerning airports, need to check out any unusual destination.
David Rice 1
Was there any “unusual destination” involved? No, Tehran and Kiev are quite well travelled airports.
Michael Mitchell 1
I stand corrected. It was the radio that was turned off or at least the pilot didn't respond to numerous attempts to contact. Not exactly the actions of an "innocent" civil airliner; leaving only the transponder to i.d. the craft in an active war zone. A very dangerous game of "chicken" as it turned out.
VKSheridan 1
The CVR should be able to confirm communication before the explosion. Since he taxi’d and was approved for departure, that implies communication but certainly doesn’t confirm it. As for communication after/during the strike, it’s unlikely either pilot was able to broadcast, rest their souls. I do agree with your initial question though, why was he cleared to depart in the midst of Iran waiting for a response from all those missiles they launched. Seems like a reckless thing to for sure.
josef Sonntag 1
It is likely that the plane was shot down by an Iranian missile
These Iranian fraudsters as they know how to do so will not admit their mistake and take no responsibility.
This is also their international conduct, the operation of international terrorism.
There are only people or stakeholders who refuse to acknowledge it
David Rice 2
Who didn’t admit their mistake? The Iranians were quite quick in accepting responsibility for their mistake.
WhiteKnight77 1
Only after worldwide pressure.
Nathan NKOT 2
You're not stakeholders of USA?
David Rice 1
The USA is not a stakeholder of this event. Please educate yourself on what a “stakeholder” is.
bentwing60 1
Boeing, as a US chartered corp. is indeed a "stakeholder" and when the lawsuits start flyin', will be a major one. Some educations are not the same as others.
josef Sonntag 0
The disregard and carelessness of the Ukrainian airline are a significant factor in the event.

Simply an airline sub-level - which indeed makes them familiar with this third-world level of conduct
Kevin Keswick -2
I wonder if this apparent downing of a Ukraine jet is connected to Ukraines arrest of ISIS's deputy minister of war two months ago? ISIS has carried out attacks in Iran so they are in the country and they also have access to American made Manpads that they used in Syria. I really doubt Iranian military would shot down this jet
David Rice 3
You doubt that the Iranians shot down the jet? They admitted their mistake. What will it take to convince you?
Samuel Bixler 1
The comments you're replying to were posted several days ago, before Iran acknowledged the shoot-down. So they were responding to what was known at the time. Be a bit more charitable in your replies!
racerxx 0
Embassy to Ukraine reports engine failure
Igor Ivanov 6
They did that definitely because of some political reasons. A failure of an engine does not lead to the immediate crash, well known, while FlightRadar24 shows a normal trend and then abrupt end of the track at about 8000ft and 270kt. That were possible only if the plane has been hit/suddenly blown away. Besides, the published pictures of debris show now the multiply typical shrapnel perforations similar to MH17.
Greg S 3
"That were possible only if the plane has been hit/suddenly blown away..."

Oh, I think there are other possibilities.

But I do agree that an explosion of some kind is a reasonable guess based on the abrupt transponder stoppage plus the plane being on fire before crashing.
Igor Ivanov 5
The Telegraph says:
"Initially, Ukraine's embassy in Iran said on Wednesday morning that engine failure caused the plane to crash and denied that it was terror-related or that a rocket had hit the aircraft.

But it later withdrew this statement, saying that anything was possible, and Mr Zelensky instructed Ukraine's prosecutors to open criminal proceedings over the crash."

Take a look at the pictures:
Torsten Hoff 3
Not only did they withdraw that statement, but supposedly there were no communications between the controllers and the cockpit crew after takeoff indicating any hint of trouble. The CVR and FDR have been recovered but not analyzed yet.

So unless the crew reported a engine problem to the controllers, I don't know what the embassy would base their statement on.
sparkie624 1
Yeah... right... The Engine Failed due the insertion of a missile to it..UGH! Pull the fire handle, fire goes out as nothing to feed it, or the crew grossly mishandled the engine fire procedures!

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sparkie624 6
You may have misread my statement... If it was an Engine Fault, pulling the fire handle removes all source of fuel, and discharge the bottle and the fire goes out.... This was in my opinion a terrorist attack by Missile or something similar.
Tom Pera -1
why would anybody....especially in and out of Iran??
Wolfgang Prigge 3
Because they have family there for example. Most of them had dual citizenship and were on their way back after visiting over the holidays. One of them worked as a mechanical design engineer for Bombardier Recreational Products near my place. BRP are makers of skidoos and seadoos. The guy was highly competent and well loved by his coworkers. In a short period he became a tutor to new colleges, he liked hanging out with colleagues for a beer or two. Quite a loss, just like many of the other with a high percentage of them university trained, PhDs and masters etc.
David Rice 1
So you plan to live in a hole and disavow interpersonal connections throughout the world? Wake up, we all live on planet Earth, and many of us are connected to people in other countries.
Karl Nicholls -1
I told my wife that this crash was related to the action going on that night. But I have a feeling that I believe the Iranians. It would not surprise me to learn that another bad actor was at play here. They may even like the color red or perhaps even the Stars and Stripes......
Gary Bain 1
Oh come on Karl. Get real.
VKSheridan 1
Not sure why you’re thinking it was anyone but the Iranian State. Nobody “thoroughly investigates” a crash site with a bulldozer before the country it’s flagged to can come in. It’s hard to think Americans or Russia snuck in, shot down a plane and snuck out when everybody and their brother had their head on a pivot expecting a U.S. response. It’s even more doubtful since Iran didn’t pitch your theory first. There’s just so much to consider beyond the current most plausible theory - A mistake was made.
David Rice 0
Really? You are trying to blame the USA for this accidental shoot down? You are a worthless pinko commie idiot.

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the hobbs 11
No details on the events that took place and already making comments about how it was the company who built it?

Talk about jumping to conclusions...

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kc0rzw 0
Calm down

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Roger Anderson 9
We have no idea what went wrong yet. A technical problem could be a shortcoming on the airline's part as well. We'll have to wait and find out.

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kc0rzw 3
Unless Iranian missiles specifically target Boeings, then it had nothing to do with the aircraft

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Highflyer1950 3
No worries Bill, most people get what you were saying.
william baker 2
Thanks HighFlyer at least some appreciates my comment. You have always been a good friend on here. Thank you.

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Calvin Chan 0

