Tuesday, February 24, 2015

The 3800 Dollar Miner

The February Venture-Killing Contest is still going strong. Hundreds of these disproportionately botted mining frigates are going *POP* all over highsec.

Some feel it's inappropriate to shoot a Venture, since it might be piloted by a new player. But a pilot old enough to violate the Code is also old enough to obey it. Consider Shadows Knight, who had been playing EVE for a few days before she lost her Venture.

Agent Jack Van Impe is a chivalrous, gallant Knight. When he discovered that Shadows was a new player, he sent her some money to get a new ship. He even offered to train her how to fly a gank Atron--the same ship he'd used to kill her Venture. This is classic New Order: Helpful, informative, and polite. When you put good out into the universe, you get good back.

...Unless you're dealing with a highsec carebear, that is. Shadows refused the reimbursement money and threatened to get Jack banned for committing the crime of shooting a spaceship in a spaceship-shooting game. The miner wasn't keen on the whole "violence" aspect of EVE. If only she knew about it before she pre-purchased an entire year's subscription.

Jack wasn't intimidated by Shadows' threat to get him banned from the game. Gankers get these kinds of threats all the time. You'd be surprised how many miners truly believe it's against the rules to shoot someone in highsec. Our hero maintained his courteous demeanor and sent Shadows additional information about the game. Now that the carebear had spent some time cooling off, maybe she would appreciate it.

...Or not. Shadows claimed to have spent the last five days trying to complete the tutorial. (I know things have changed since I was a newbie, but I don't recall the tutorial being quite that long.) In addition, Shadows was going to cancel thirty accounts.

Jack kindly pointed out that the carebear was ganked while mining in a 0.7 security system. A detour from the "tutorial", perhaps? Even so, Agent Jack tried to help her understand EVE. This time, Shadows didn't reply for an additional hour. Perhaps she was really giving the matter some thought.

...No, the miner was busy complaining to CCP--probably bending their ears with stories about her thirty accounts.

Jack sent one more EVEmail, this time with detailed instructions about avoiding ganks in highsec. He concluded by telling Shadows that he would help her do something other than mining. Could Shadows Knight become a proper Knight?

...Unlikely. The newbie boasted about cancelling 32 accounts and $3,800 worth of EVE subscriptions. All because of one lost Venture. You know, that's a lot of money to invest in a game you've never played before, especially when a two-week trial is available for free. Jack didn't have the heart to tell Shadows how many Ventures she could've bought with $3,800 worth of PLEX.


  1. Typical criminal conduct from new order agents.
    The code always loses at the game, always!

    1. Oh my James, I really was right. You'd been saying "looses" for a month, and not one single person had pointed out to you that you'd been misspelling the word you'd meant to use. That's how many friendly eyes you showed your comments to. I'm so sorry, miner@1:09. Nobody should ever have to be that alone.

  2. As I like to say, the Knights of the New Order really are the First Line of Defense of this Great Game and its community. We introduce the gallant carebear to a completely new world of excitement and profit, and we simultaneously sweep the goofus carebears out of this game, or keep them economically destitute until they accept New Order Rule. Really, no matter what we do, The New Order wins, CCP wins, the EVE Community wins, random people who read Minerbumping win. It's like chain lightning, but with victory instead of electricity.

    1. Even Veers wins when he see's how we treat new players he's got to concede CODE. does it right

    2. Not sure how griefing and looking for rage is doing it right.

    3. This certainly seems like doing things 'right', at least in this particular instance. The net cost of having the Venture destroyed was less than 0, in addition, the new player got access to a mentor and links to valuable information. The reaction is disturbingly out of proportion.

      If this were the reaction I had gotten from a CODE agent, I'd have been pretty happy with it.

    4. "Ming TsoFebruary 24, 2015 at 2:23 AM"
      Now you are lying again.
      CCP bleeds money so you don't help them or do you lie about helping CCP too?

    5. Good morning, LieAnon. Did you have a nice, Code-Compliant evening?

    6. [citation needed]

    7. "Maria MalukkerFebruary 24, 2015 at 1:22 PM"
      Lying Code player tries to anger a non EVE playing person, how cute...

    8. I literally just wished you a good morning, and asked you about your weekend. Are you ok, LieAnon? Calling someone a liar and accusing them of trying to anger you is a pretty disproportionate response to a friendly greeting.

    9. "Maria MalukkerFebruary 24, 2015 at 2:00 PM"
      A liar is never friendly, bad for you but that's the truth.

    10. So you believe it is physically impossible for anyone you consider a liar to be friendly, ever, under any and all circumstances? Yet I'm sure you see Agents of the Code being friendly to each other all the time here. Do you think these friendly-seeming greetings and conversations are somehow not-friendly?

    11. Maria,
      Let us go with LieAnon's logic for a moment. New Order Agents aren't liars at all. We do only tell the truth. That's why we are so friendly. If we were liars, we wouldn't be nearly as friendly as we are.

      It does not help that this particular miner is so unfriendly. So according to its logic, if it is unfriendly, it must also be a liar.

      According to this, if we combine LieAnon's blatantly unfriendly behaviour, with its insistent reports that "Eve is Dying™," One may then conclude that it is LieAnon who is actually the liar here, and is projecting that trait onto innocent Agents of the New Order.

      Even by carebear logic, the New Order Always wins. Always.

    12. Ming Tso,
      But perhaps LieAnon does not believe that the "unfriendly" and "liar" groups are synonymous? Perhaps in his mind, all liars are unfriendly, but not everyone who is unfriendly is a liar.

      I have noticed over the years that carebears are often the fiercest proponents of the "everyone in EvE is unfriendly or a scammer" myth. One can speculate that because of their unhealthy obsession with greed and the acquisition of material wealth, carebears come to believe (through projection) that everyone else is as obsessed with wealth as they are, and that the only motivations people could ever have for doing anything are either profit-seeking, or griefing (as these are the only two motivations which a carebear personally knows or is capable of imagining).

      And so, perhaps LieAnon does not believe that being unfriendly makes you a liar. Perhaps he simply believes that everyone is always unfriendly and hostile (as he himself constantly is), and therefore anyone who appears to behave in a friendly manner must be lying. This would of course lead him to suspicion and hatred of all New Order Agents, since he could not help but interpret their genial demeanor and selfless kindness as some kind of lie or scam.

      I don't think that LieAnon is necessarily a liar. Perhaps he is only so tragically broken by years of highsec mining, that he truly believes that his own greed and misanthropy are universal human traits. Either way, it is the New Order's sacred duty (and this is to our credit) to reach out to this poor lost soul, and enlighten him through the sale of a Permit and the exhortation to follow the Code. And through this, the New Order must Always win. Always.

    13. According to Mark Twain, lying is often the highest form of social harmony, and usually done with only the friendliest intentions.
      I do agree on two points though...
      1) care bears make more broad generalizations about Eve and it's players than any gamer I've ever encountered in any game
      2) CODE always wins

    14. And only lies again.
      Lies is unfriendly no matter what you try to say.

    15. Calling people liars without evidence to back it up is unfriendly too.
      Maybe you should take your advice and start treating Agents of the New Order in a more friendly way.

      Like with respect.

      As the Code commands you to do.

    16. "Ming TsoFebruary 24, 2015 at 8:57 PM"
      You told me you did open the economy reports and found evidence that your so called Code group keep players subscribe to EVE.
      A few posts later you admit that you never opened the reports.
      A few more posts later you admit that it's OK to lie as much as you can.
      So there is proof that you lied and thinks lying is totally ok.

      And don't be so childish that you can't admit that you lied and try to hide behind the so called Code.
      Remember, I don't play EVE so I don't give anything for your in game fake Code.

      Try harder if you are going to get rage but be prepared if you get what you hunted for.
      Remember I have guns and won't hesitate to defend my life if needed ;-)
      But you are far to childish to even reach near a threat worthy defending against :-P

    17. "Try harder if you are going to get rage but be prepared if you get what you hunted for.
      Remember I have guns and won't hesitate to defend my life if needed"

      what are you gonna do shoot the screen? :D

  3. "That still only counts as one!"

    1. Isn't it the b*wh*re again?

    2. Ok, I'll bite. What does the first asterisk stand for? I've been trying all the possible combinations in my mind, and nothing works. Bewhore? Bowhore? Biwhore? What were you trying to say, anon@12:56?

      Incidentally, do you think sexual harassment is acceptable behavior? Do you harass everyone you believe might be female, or does Tisophone Dira have a special place in your heart?

    3. Try again liar, I know you can figure it out even if you are a Code player.

    4. There are only five vowels. Assuming that "wh*ore" is short for "whore", that leaves "bawhore", "bewhore", "biwhore", "bowhore", and "buwhore". The second and third are at least composed of words, but they don't make sense in context (unless you consider bisexuality to be an undesirable trait, and calling someone bisexual an insult?). The whole thing is maddeningly ambiguous, which is why I asked you for clarification. Instead of childish name-calling, could you please spare a moment from your undoubtedly busy day to explain what you'd meant "b*wh*re" to mean?

    5. Why should I explain this to you, ask your pimp James instead.

  4. I don't approve, but understand the rage of the missioner over his lost blinged Mach.

    I can't understand why does anyone cry over a 0.002B Venture. This just doesn't compute for me.

    1. hey idiot you used a decimal instead of a comma in your numbers, which means you are fake.

    2. It's simple - story is fictional.

    3. Or it means that he applies a different system than you use in your culture, oh enlightened one. Basically the british and their former colonies use a point as a decimal mark whereas continental european countries and their former colonies use a comma as a decimal mark.

    4. Gevlon, I'm interested. Have you ever attempted to calculate a "crying threshold?" Some kind of mathematical formula which takes into account isk lost, player age, and other factors to determine the probability of the isk loss event producing "crying?"

  5. Yep, my balls go pop when I fuck Veers Belvar in his donkey ass.

    1. Getting real tired of your shit fake James

  6. Uh oh.

    CCP lost umpteen accounts!!!

    Quick!! To the nerfmobile!!!


    Mike Adoulin

  7. Replies
    1. EVE is a game about death. Dying in EVE is so important, CCP went so far as to include it in the tutorial. They intentionally put every newbie into a mission that they can't win, to combat the "attachment" that carebears develop toward their "stuff."

      By killing newbies, we actually help them along in that process of learning, as nobody ever truly learns anything in EVE without dying, or losing, being humiliated or ridiculed. Most would get that we're only trying to target the crustiest carebears, forcefully breaking them out of their molds, kicking them outside of their comfort zone, and forcing them to actually get angry enough to do something -themselves.- But "getting them while they're young," as some would call it, also has merit, as it allows us to spare them a life of misery and boredom.

    2. "Ming TsoFebruary 24, 2015 at 2:59 PM"
      Once again you admit that you do hunt for rage, anger and other bad things.

    3. @Anon8:16
      And, once again, you mistake the means as an end.

      To you, New Order Agents breaking eggs means that they are violent egg-violencers, but to everyone else, The New Order is simply making omelets.

    4. "Ming TsoFebruary 24, 2015 at 8:54 PM"
      For most EVE players Code is pirates and terrorists nothing more.
      For me that don't play the game you are just a bunch of childish players that can't admit when you're lying and that you sir have admitted that all Code does is hunting for rage and sadness in other players.

      I scan this site and collect everything written here for use in education so I have your old posts about that.

    5. for someone who doesn't play eve or like Code you have a real unhealthy obsession with them.

  8. When I feel guilty because I killed inexperienced player in PvP I come here sometimes. Between this bunch of childkillers I feel like a saint then.


    1. How do you think inexperienced PvPers become experienced, if not through having PvP experiences?

    2. Training...you clowns are the sink or swim type...many people do not respond well to your anal training methods...and you lot are too arrogant to try any other way...

    3. If you had bothered to look at my corp history, EllipseAnon@9:30, you would have seen that I spent a good 5 months with Brave Newbies, and before that another 5 months with Enlightened Academy (A GSF feeder corp). I donated no small amount of my time and money to training newbies in exploration, combat, and logi roles. Even before I became a vocal New Order supporter, I spent my time trying to help newbies, and teach them about the wonderful game that is Eve. So you might want to double-check those assumptions you're making. Most of us New Order Agents love to teach and help newbies fully enjoy the gameplay possibilities of this unique game, EvE. You'll never find a more newbie-friendly bunch, and that's coming from someone who spent time in HERO.


    1. Hello Anonymous February 24, 2015 at 2:45 PM


      What a totally original statement for a carebear. Will you be making history and leading the charge?

    2. That'd be pretty awesome, Anon@2:45. Fight back! Struggle valiantly against our forces! Lead a highsec-wide rebellion! We look forward to hearing from you regarding your resistance. Bonus points if you get a website put together.

    3. I smell another miner bingo card spot filled.

  10. There is no such thing as a ship only newbies fly. Any ship can be taken to very high levels of use. I have 66mil SP and live in null, but use a Venture to ninja gas mine in WH space. Saying that a mining frigate is a newb ship because of it's size is moronic and only further proves the lack of understanding of Eve mechanics by care bears. Just like the famous rookie ships killed with dozens of PLEX in the cargo.
    Only in Eve can you 'succeed' at the game by squatting forever in a newbie area (high sec). Any other game would stop rewarding people for such squatting.
    For the truly new player-- your enemy should be all the 50mil SP players that insist on staying in high sec forever, rather than moving out and letting the newbs have that content. They continue to do newbie activities in newbie areas and thus destroy any notion of either being actual newb content/area. New players are the collateral damage caused by the weak and cowardly that can play a game for years, yet never progress beyond what they did in their first month of playing.

    1. I'm glad you put "succeed" in quotes.

      "Success" is so relative in EVE. When I was a newbie, I thought 10 million isk was a lot. But I was so wrong. And only by listening to people like Agents of the New Order, was I able to be introduced to the world THEY came from. And only then could I see, that my miserable life running missions in Highsec was making me slave away for relative pennies an hour. New Order Agents were absolutely right to gank me, ridicule me, and harass me for thinking THAT was what EVE was about.. and I thank them for freeing me from it. I'm just so glad that someone cared enough about me to shake me and wake me up from that nightmare.

    2. the new order is not required....... everybody wakes up to the wonder that is eve eventually (yes i know it can take a long time for some).
      the new order is just having fun while they can (ganking is fun for some yes)
      stop crying bears and go kill some gankers and maybe visit null and low (don't just go there alone it will end badly seek some advice at least first).
      code is right eve is a game about spaceship combat everything else you do in new eden is meant to provide the werewithal to fight.
      it's fun honest ..........and it beats the heck out of staring at red crosses for hours or asteroids for that matter ..... just do it......... i dare you .

    3. There's nothing finer in this universe, than watching a mission-runner cast off the chains of their oppression. Watching them take their mission running ship, fit it with large smartbombs and cap boosters for one final "mission," and then heroically diving headlong into a group of miners, scouted of course, by a cloaked New Order Agent.

      In a single, New Order-infused blast, they destroy both their own bot-aspirancy and the bot-aspirancy of several others- as a message to all, stating to all that their days being a Highsec "carebear" are done.

    4. "Ming TsoFebruary 24, 2015 at 8:05 PM"
      You may believe in yourself but we all know you are a simple liar.

    5. "Liar liar, pants on fire"

      Perhaps someone should teach LieAnon a new nursery rhyme.

      Ring around the Carebear,
      A pocket full of Veldspar,
      Blasters! Blasters!
      Miners fall down.

      Why not try that one for a while, just for variety's sake?

    6. "Maria MalukkerFebruary 24, 2015 at 8:33 PM"
      To childish to admit that you are a liar?

    7. But I am not a liar, LieAnon. I understand that nothing I say can get through your obsession with lies and liars, and that to you everyone in minerbumping (except for you, of course) is one of the dreaded Liars which trouble you so. But I am always sincere in these comments. I honestly believe that obedience to the Code is good for the miners, good for all carebears, and good for the game. And I honestly believe that James 315, the Father of Highsec, is also its Savior for having written such a perfect document.

      I don't know why you find it so hard to believe that, just maybe, the people who dedicate so much of their time and energy to spreading the tenets of the Code actually believe in its validity and value. But that's ok, LieAnon. The New Order has room even for one such as you, whose mind has been poisoned by years of highsec mining. Even you, if you buy a permit and follow the Code, may be healed of your afflictions someday. All it takes is belief, a sincere attempt at self-redemption, and of course 10m isk sent to your local Agent for a permit.

    8. Like the terrorists you believe in violence and disinformation.

    9. Violence is built into the game. From a development standpoint it wouldn't be hard to just prohibit players from shooting one another. Nobody actually dies. Even in universe you're virtual self isn't killed, but just reanimated somewhere else less a ship. Genuine murder is *impossible* in EVE. You can only destroy property.

      A problem with miner comments, aside from the serious lack of any kind of courtesy, is that they're purely speculative and unsubstantiated. You say 'disinformation'. Okay, but can you refute any of this information? Even better, could you refute any of this information *and* be civil about it?

      CODE takes a hardline approach, but, at least on minerbumping, they have always been polite to me. I would like to join some kind of organized resistance, but any available to me is hateful and antagonistic and when I want to play a game that's not the way I want to be, nor do I appreciate that I can be dismissed or shunned because I'm not spiteful enough to fit in. People don't see it, but one thing CODE wants is to keep new players from falling in with a spiteful hisec population.

    10. Well, maria, that may be that you believe in that trash, that means that you are willing to believe in a pack of lies that the buffoon of highsec has put forth...

    11. PoliteAnon@10:46

      It means a lot to have our Agents' efforts at maintaining civil discourse with our opponents recognized like that, so thank you. For our part, it is and always has been a pleasure to face off against polite rebels like yourself. It is a shame that you still would rather oppose the New Order family than join it, but it is an understandable impulse to wish to oppose a strong authoritarian force like we are. I can only hope that with time, and as you see more and more of the kind of people who you'd be defending as a rebel (for example, people who immediately call their opponents in a video game "terrorists" or "pedophiles") you too will come to see the value and necessity of the Code, and join our side.

      Until then, may you have the best of luck in real life, and horrible explodey spaceship death in EvE.


      Oh, relax, will you? We get it, you don't like James and think that the Code (which is, incidentally, a statement of values and a code of behavior and thus cannot objectively be "true" or "false") is a lie. We get it, and we've certainly heard it enough times on here for it to get a bit repetitive. Why not say something else, every once in a while? For example, you could explain why you think our values are wrong, and offer values of your own with which to replace them. Or you could list what you do, in-game, to oppose the New Order. Just change it up a bit, as it is you run the risk of being tuned out due to repetition.

    12. "Maria MalukkerFebruary 25, 2015 at 1:37 AM"
      You and Ming are the masters of repeating words.
      Why I really don't like players like you?
      Easy, you tell everyone lies, you are lying and try to force a playing style on other players.
      Tell me why your way of playing is the correct way and how that will keep players paying for their subscription?

      All evidence in the economy reports tells us that CCP is bleeding money, maybe it's not because of Code but they are still bleeding money.
      If your violent way of forcing a player style is so damn good, why does players flee EVE?
      Again, maybe it's not Code's fault but fact is that they are losing players.

      I have nothing against PvP games so that's not the point here, just don't like players that acts like you do.

    13. It would take a long time to completely explain why our way of playing is correct. Luckily, there is already a document put together which explains why ganking and selling permits is necessary, and what we hope to accomplish by doing so. There's a link to it at the top of the page, the one titled "The Code".

      It is interesting, however, that you link these two things: "Tell me why your way of playing is the correct way and how that will keep players paying for their subscription". These are two wholly separate things. The correct thing to do isn't always the one that gets the most money (and there we are again, running into that damnable carebear obsession with money). Moral imperatives are higher than money, they're more important, and if doing the right thing causes you (or CCP) to lose money, that doesn't stop it being the right thing.

      You ask why players leave EvE, a 10-year old MMO? For the same reasons that players eventually leave every older MMO: they get tired of the game, they feel like they've already done everything there is to do, life and work get in the way, they have kids and stop playing so many games, they find a new and more exciting game to play, etc etc. This shouldn't be surprising or confusing. That CCP has made some very bad decisions for their money in the recent past (again, the whole Dust 514 debacle) only exacerbates the problem.

      But I'd like to go back to that "what's good is what gets CCP money" statement. I guess I'm curious: do you agree that it is possible for the morally correct course of action to also be one which will cost you (or CCP) money?

    14. *Calls us "masters of repeating words"*

      *Tells us we tell everyone lies, and that we are lying*

      *goes on more about so-called "economy reports" that only he has access to*

      And New Order Agents are the ones who repeat ourselves. *shrug*

      But since the New Order is about more than throwing mere accusations back and forth, propose we do something more constructive.

      Let me address the real reason why you don't like us, because we "force a playing style on others."

      Well, what's wrong with that? Parents "force" codes of conduct on their children all the time! I mean, what child hasn't wanted to just "do what they want" and then been stopped and punished by a parental figure for doing something detrimental to theirs or someone elses health and safety?

      New Order Agents ARE this parental figure to miners, who freely admit, they have no idea how to play EVE Online. Like "mama birds" we have to "force" these "baby birds" to develop their wings by "pushing" them out of the supposedly safe "nest" that is Highsec- because if we didn't, the miner would get fed up with EVE and go off and tell other people "EVE is boring" and then we would have those dropping sub numbers you're so sure about.

      But nobody ever comes to Minerbumping to read about boring mining. They come to see the excitement and adventures of our noble order, as we struggle to bring bring a full stop to PVE activities in Highsec and actually end the practice of "shooting people that can't shoot back," for the simple reason that everyone will be well-equipped to shoot back.

      Sure, actually "flying a spaceship" is scary for miners, who only want to sit and make peacefully make money AFK, but honestly, with a little bit of effort, even the lowliest miner can become a PVP terror. It just takes practice, and a little bit of isk. These are the lessons that the New Order teaches in The Code.

      You should really give your fake "economy reports" a rest and give The Code a second look. It contains so much more good information that will actually help you instead of pointing you in a random direction- and making you repeat yourself.

    15. "Ming TsoFebruary 25, 2015 at 2:37 PM"
      The childish Code player that's to childish to read a real report that every company is forced by law to produce.
      So keep on lying and play childish, or grow up and read reports and stop nagging for rage.

    16. Care bears should be thanking gankers. CODE is essentially a roving E-Uni, teaching skills and mechanics that CCP has utterly failed to present in their tutorials.
      The most common reason given why people never leave high sec or attempt PvP is that they simply have no idea how. Many would even like to try, but it's frustrating when you are clueless as to what to do and why.
      Consider what CODE has taught the care bear-- watch local, check bios, stay aligned, tank properly, watch D-Scan, create safe spots, know timers and mechanics of the game.....
      This is exactly what you need to do to survive in low, null, and WH space. Even better, care bears often pass this info on to other care bears, making them useful members of the community.
      By making high sec dangerous, CODE is teaching what you need to know to go anywhere in New Eden. And- if it's just as dangerous (honestly, moreso) in high sec, there is no reason not to go to low/null/WH and benefit from better rewards.
      Added to this, CCP has given care bears the tools to leave high sec and ninja up massive rewards right under even sov owners' noses. I live in sov space, and believe me, any number of miners could be raping our belts and never even be noticed. There are thousands of belts of high end ore that have never seen a mining vessel out there.
      If you can be killed in high sec for mining crap ores, you're a fool for not taking that same exact risk mining something useful in null. CODE has taught players how to do it. The same things that keep you out of CODE's gunsights work for keeping you out of everyone else's too.

    17. "SollyLamaFebruary 25, 2015 at 7:06 PM"
      The violence you use to "teach" players what you want only breed rage, nothing more.
      There are real people behind what you gank and for decades it have been no success on using violence to control people or as you would say "teach" them.

      No, Code does no good except for your own sick amusement.

    18. "violence"

      Do you understand, Anon@7:33, that you are playing a computer *game*? To beat someone else at a game they have chosen to play with you is not doing them violence. When someone beats you at chess, do you get angry and rage? Assuming you're not so bat-shit crazy as to answer "yes", why do you treat a computer game any differently?

    19. "Ming TsoFebruary 25, 2015 at 2:37 PM"
      BTW, don't ever get kids. You seems to enjoy punish them!
      If you punish a kid it just grows up to be a serial killer like most of the Code players.

    20. "Maria MalukkerFebruary 25, 2015 at 7:37 PM"
      No one dare to challenge me at chess since they won't survive to the end.
      Read a few studies about games and rage and you will quickly see why Code is the wrong way of doing stuff in EVE.

    21. "No one dare to challenge me at chess since they won't survive to the end."

      Seek help in dealing with your disproportionate anger at losing, Anon@7:47. Freaking out because other people are better than you (whether at internet spaceship games, or chess) can't be healthy for you or those close to you.

    22. @Anon7:47

      Consider your challenge accepted.

      I look forward to not only "surviving" our little Chess game, but I also look forward to metaphorically beating the ever-living shit out of you, and proving once and for all, that when you challenge an Agent of the New Order to a game of Chess, you're going into battle unarmed.

      We should do this via correspondence on our Minerbumping comments. If you win, I shall acknowlege your victory. If you win, you will acknowledge mine.

      Do you have a color preference?

    23. The exact same violence is what teaches people how to play Eve in low/null/WH. It is no different to be blown up regardless of where you are in New Eden. If you go to low sec and don't watch local, use D-Scan, etc....you are educated that those things are required to survive. High sec is no different.
      Again, this is stuff CCP doesn't bother teaching people and as a result many people avoid leaving newbie space because they are wholly unaware of how to do so. CODE teaches players these exact lessons.
      CODE's presence in high sec acts as a tutorial that CCP should have developed itself.
      Now that care bears have learned to look at local, use a D-Scan, travel safely, tank their ships....they are prepared to leave high sec and experience more of Eve than what people do in their first week of playing. They are prepared to go out and reap far better rewards in low/null/WH, and actually advance within the game.
      It used to be that one had to funnel into a small set of content to 'learn' Eve. Join FW and be forced to plex, join a null sec alliance and deal with the politics, or become a pirate and wreck sec status to 'try' PvP. CODE has made the most basic skills needed for advancement a lesson for all players- even miners and haulers.
      At this point- there is no reason why people scratch about high sec, doing miserable content for peanuts rather than progress thru the game.
      All CODE has done, is address the fact that in Eve, people can squat in newbie areas and still 'win' at a game.
      Take a game like WoW....there, you cannot just hide behind the newbs in 'safe' areas and advance within the game. You must venture out to ever more dangerous areas to progress. It's a natural progression fully within the intent of the game itself. Eve was supposed to work this way, but the risk v reward system was broken by the endless mewling of cowardly players that demand to basically sit in newbie space but still advance. Simply put- if you insist on squatting in newbie space, you should not advance. If the risk v reward was valid, it would take a year of mining in high sec to afford a T2 fit frigate.
      That broken mechanic is exactly why low sec and null sec are so utterly empty compared to high sec. That is why only a couple factions now control most of sov space- because there is no challenge to them by players going out there and challenge for resources.
      It should be for CCP to nerf high sec rewards to the point where players are forced out to get anywhere in the game. Until that time, CODE is doing the job that CCP won't or can't accomplish.
      Rather than rage at not being able to squat and remain forever a newbie- try progressing in a game where the clear intent was to go from high to low to null to WH space.
      I wouldn't have any problem if people remained newbs for years on end- so long as they never gained rewards above what newbs get. There should be no Incursions in high sec. Missions should stop rewarding you once you achieve the status with factions to advance in their mission lines.

  11. Looks like the antigankers cant stop anything and all they can do is cry

  12. High sec belongs to CCP and if CCP loses to much money because of high sec, I am certain high sec will be changed. With griefers being a minority in the game its a no brainer really.

    1. Highest belongs to the players like it always has (well, now it belongs to James 315). In fact, highsec has never been safer, so why do you think only now, 11 years in that CCP will suddenly change its mind and remove suicide ganking?

      I am not saying that it couldn't happen, just that it isn't something that I would bet on. A highsec with risk is a key element of the game and won't be changed lightly. In fact, CCP Seagull seems to be willing to double-down on the whole player driven conflict thing so I wouldn't be surprised to see more risk and tools for non-consensual PvP in highsec in the near future.

      Besides, like in life, one man's griefer is another man's hero.

    2. CCP doesn't lose money by high sec players leaving. Those players are just fodder. There is a constant influx of new players to high sec. Care bears are entirely replaceable. They amount to nothing within the game because there is always someone to replace people doing newb activities.
      This is why CCP has been more concerned with null sec over time. These are the long term players that are not so easily replaced when they leave. It is low/null/WH space that drives the interesting parts of Eve- the parts that make news or are made into trailers. The parts that get people to subscribe to begin with. CCP doesn't peddle "in Eve, you can ignore our game and watch TV while mining in high sec', it peddles 'be the villain' in it's advertising and shows it's PvP content.
      The simple fact is that mining could be entirely removed from Eve, with no effect on the game. Ore could be seeded directly to markets the way skillbooks are, and it wouldn't matter. Miners contribute virtually nothing whatsoever to the game. They do nothing for the MMO aspect, they squat forever in newb space, and the only time they are interesting is when someone is blowing them up.
      What Eve needs is BETTER players, not simply more bad/afk ones. The steep learning curve and brutal nature of the game used to accomplish this. Sadly, it no longer keeps the weak and lazy out of the game, and Eve suffers as a result. The more the game caters to that crowd, the less unique and intriguing it becomes, and the player base is watered down as a result.

  13. Eve is about griefing, kill it and you kill the game

    1. HS belongs to those who are too weak to play the game. given the nature of human interaction you must realize those who prey on the weakest are only making the less weaker a little stronger. This applies to everyone in HS except the AFK incursion runners who contribute nothing to the game

    2. A minor (heh) correction: Highsec belongs to James 315 and the New Order, and nothing belongs to those too weak to play the game properly. They deserve nothing, because they earn nothing of value. Morality is such an important resource in this game, so much more valuable than ISK. The Code provides a way for those less fortunate to become rich in this resource.

  14. why do people find it so hard to grasp this fact ....."high sec is meant to be a temporary place to stay" a place where you learn what is required to live in new eden i.e combat skills, industrial ability,and the ability to acquire goods (either by manufacture or purchase).
    your not meant to stay there for years on end !!! why do you think that all the good stuff happens elsewhere (low and null ) because your supposed to venture into the unknown and experience new eden (good and bad ) fight,die, build, destroy, eve is a game of interaction NOT solitude !! if you want fluffly n friendly there are countless games to bore yourself to death with, go play them.
    new eden is dangerous, deadly even ...if you expect to be pampered here your in for a rude awakening!
    the day they make high sec "safe" is the day new eden dies.
    thank you code for your tireless efforts to keep new eden "ours" and not "theirs"
    long live piracy, ganking, scamming, thievery, sculduggery, honour, friendship, loyalty,and courage ( yes they do all live in new eden )

  15. All those who believe that shooting new players - that move outside the systems where such activity is considered harassment by CCP - is the main reason why new players quit the game, should check this out: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504176#post5504221 Given that this 3,800 Dollar miner also moved himself into the real eve, where those protection rules do'nt apply, he's still an exception. But a hilarious one, I think.
    People that play such cards (30 accounts canceled, cost 3,800 dollars), I do'nt think I would want to encounter them in the game anyway. Who knows, they might sue me if I play the sandbox to his disadvantage.

