00:23:26 *** qubodup has joined #parpg 00:57:42 *** aspidites has joined #parpg 01:34:19 *** chew-ie|log has joined #parpg 02:03:38 *** rowanas has joined #parpg 02:07:22 hello, people 02:15:13 hello, rowanas 02:15:18 :o) 02:17:49 hi 02:29:01 *** Spummy has quit IRC 02:29:18 heh. It's interesting to see new smileys. My dad uses ( :{>. (It took me all this time to find the smiley he uses. Turns out it was in an email he sent me. I finally found it) 03:27:20 *** eoc is now known as eoc|afk 03:36:34 *** Q_x has joined #parpg 03:37:32 hujambo? 03:39:08 qubodup: something is wrong with the graph... looks like Beliar's entry has a value of 0,5 and you have counted my qvga as 800x600 (valued 0,5), and it is as low as 320x240, not 800x600 03:39:42 oh 03:40:14 xga and sxga+ (1024x760 and 1400x1050). Plus QVGA PDA, which I guess does not count here. 03:40:31 ah 03:40:35 I didn't count the qvga 03:40:48 so where is 800x600 from? 03:40:57 with 0,5 value 03:40:59 ? 03:41:00 Roach 03:41:06 ahh,OK 03:44:47 anyway, its a great job 03:45:52 Q_x: do you think we should work on char selection mockups today or tomorrow? 03:46:04 Q_x: alternatively, I think there are actually some GUI elements missing 03:46:17 [+]/[-]/[<]/[>] buttons 03:50:11 I thought this to be a characters, glyphs from font, just on a background 03:50:27 like white, green, whatever, semi-transparent 03:50:46 I was wrong? 03:51:40 Not much to work is there actually, I will post some mockups today and you can do as well 03:52:30 Q_x: do we have the button backgrounds though? 03:52:44 two, but too big 03:52:57 70 and 135 by 30 pix 03:54:48 Its not that I won't make it smaller, I just don't have a clue if it would be reasonable 03:55:06 35x30 pix may still be too big 03:58:11 We need indication that the ><+- sybols can be clicked 03:58:25 also I'd say we need a border for the name input area 03:58:25 that should be obvious 03:59:01 its never obvious, nothing 03:59:11 what size should this elements have? 03:59:11 obviously 03:59:17 depends on font I think 03:59:24 exactly 03:59:31 is it researched? 03:59:39 being reserched? 03:59:50 if you put them near the things they're meant to alter, it's fairly obvious. 04:00:17 we have to have the prototype running first, and later it will be all obvious 04:00:41 Q_x: nope. let's go with http://ompldr.org/vN2YzbQ 16x16 04:01:19 I'd make the glyph thicker, personally 04:01:42 you mena you would set it to bold to indicate interactivity? 04:02:30 yeah... sure :D 04:02:44 now how about this: we have some buttons, if we would used within smaller buttons it will be clipped to the needed size, I will investigate that and later and produce pixel-OK buttons, and not just guess and assume. Is it a good idea? 04:02:49 I just figured that it looked a bit pathetic 04:02:59 there is no bold typeface 04:03:18 *that later 04:03:44 I don't know what you use to produce these, so I specified "thicker" not bold 04:04:27 if you have a typewriter, there is no bold. Underline, highlighted, thats all 04:08:05 hm. also scrollbars and bars (weight/bulk) 04:08:17 this we have, I think 04:08:23 * qubodup checks 04:08:34 in pychan, natively 04:09:30 oh 04:11:19 Q_x: could you do 16x16 buttons and 8x16 left/right parts for text input plus ?x16 repeating center part? 04:11:48 no problem 04:14:32 thanks 04:24:16 My idea, long time ago, was to make single universal button that will solve that type of issues. It is doable with pychan (Beliar supported me in this regard), and it will save LOTS of pointless work. I wrote that, noone cared, as often. 04:26:08 awww 04:26:36 how would you make this single, universal button? 04:28:16 I would provide graphics only rowanas, logically it would be similar to window border 04:29:12 basically four corners, four borders and a texture to fill it 04:29:25 well... that makes sense 04:29:34 otherwise all the buttons will look slightly different 04:37:40 *** Kilian] has joined #parpg 04:40:49 hey kilian 04:41:26 fyi: http://qubodup.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/parpg-character-view-steps/ 04:42:19 hi 04:49:22 hi 04:49:35 where's the bells? 04:50:07 parpg: luke * r728 /branches/active/character_customization/game/gui/notebook/buttons/ (9 files): 04:50:07 parpg: Patch by Q_x 04:50:07 parpg: Small buttons I made. 04:53:53 qubodup: plenty od stuff, lots of work 04:54:12 BTW, I just posted a mockup on forums 04:54:26 no, I did not 04:54:42 mwhahaha 04:56:53 meeting board has smaller allowed file size 04:56:58 :/ 04:57:09 graphics has like 2x that much 04:57:24 Q_x: you con commit the mockup and embed from there.. 04:57:25 but I posted 04:57:31 ok 04:57:52 keeping mockups in SVN is a thing I rarely do 04:58:09 I know this is sprint branch, buth whatever 04:58:44 I thought it might be good to use the notebook for all guis 04:59:02 I guess I'll make a mockup some time 04:59:38 Oh, it will be boring 05:02:44 I quite like the variety now - sheet of metal, piece of paper, worn notebook 05:03:00 who knows what HUD will be 05:04:32 where's the bells again? 05:05:21 ?? 05:06:03 parpg: luke * r729 /branches/media/graphics/gui/ (squared_paper_1.png squared_paper_2.png): 05:06:03 parpg: Patch by Q_x 05:06:03 parpg: Commit, in which Q_x adds squared paper to our media collection. 05:35:23 with ( in file name? 05:35:28 oh wait 05:35:30 :) 05:41:20 something is not wrong, yet I dunno what can it be 05:43:32 *** Beliar has joined #parpg 05:43:56 heya 05:47:54 hi 05:51:17 hiho 05:57:04 *** Wr4i7h has joined #parpg 06:24:29 Q_x, have you got spare time on your hands at the moment? 06:25:00 sorry rowanas 06:25:13 now I have to earn for my living 06:25:33 when I'll end - I'll tell you 06:41:54 ok, cheers 06:58:17 *** BobBobson has joined #parpg 07:03:48 hi 07:04:36 Hey, Q! How're you? 07:04:45 hi BobBobson 07:05:17 I'm OK, how about you? 07:05:22 rowanas: shoot 07:05:44 hey, Beliar - I'm good, thanks Q 07:28:19 oops. got distracted by Widelands again 07:28:51 the game Widelands? 07:29:06 no, the singer/songwriter Widelands 07:29:10 YES, THE GAME. 07:29:12 :D 07:29:21 jeez 07:29:42 what do i know if theres something else called widelands? 07:29:43 hehehe 07:30:14 ok, ok. No offence meant. 07:30:14 I was disappointed by Widelands' last album, personally 07:30:18 mwhahah 07:31:30 anyway, bob, would you mind giving your creative input to an idea I had? 07:31:40 and Q, I assume you're still available? 07:31:55 (even though I missed you by about 20 minutes) 07:32:07 sure, go ahead 07:32:18 available 07:32:26 shoot 07:32:34 ok 07:33:22 it's a quest arc about someone trying to trick the PC into believing in aliens, ghosts, mutants, etc 07:33:35 he pulls off various tricks to provide "evidence" 07:33:41 but he's a complete, raving nutter 07:34:58 I'm trying to find my earlier, better description 07:35:23 *** PARPG-Guest has joined #parpg 07:35:58 hi PARPG-Guest 07:36:04 ... 07:36:05 that's me 07:36:11 :D 07:36:11 hmm 07:36:20 i though i checked 07:36:29 but i looked at the wrong nick 07:36:40 ah. Easily done 07:37:09 *** PARPG-Guest is now known as amirror 07:37:20 *** amirror is now known as amirrordarkly 07:37:28 better 07:39:47 he's completely nuts, but should be believable enough that the player will keep tagging along 07:39:47 17:19:15 as he becomes more and more desperate and crazy, his lies start to wear thin, providing the player with a chocie of some sort 07:39:47 17:19:19 choice"" 07:39:47 17:19:46 he's harmless enough, but he should probably end up getting the character almost killed 07:39:48 17:20:15 maybe he's performing unconscionable deeds in his delusion 07:39:48 17:21:15 hopefully, it'll be fun for the player, but still force them to consider the whole "road to hell is paved with good intentions" thing 07:40:29 that was part of a conversation I had with KB about it. He was very helpful, but didn't provide the "tear it to pieces" feedback that you guys do :D 07:40:59 what do you think, amirrordarkly? 07:41:14 I think you're awesome and the best person ever. 07:41:18 thank you. 07:41:22 pfft, what's the point of feedback that doesn't destroy the self-esteem of the person who comes up with the idea? 07:41:28 mwhaha 07:41:56 *** amirrordarkly has quit IRC 07:42:33 OK, how would the quest end? I mean all the endings 07:42:58 1. PC gets spooked and comes back when fitter 07:43:24 well, Q, it's important to differentiate between quest and quest -arc- 07:44:00 the quests will end in a variety of interesting and entertaining ways, which lead on to other quests. 07:44:09 I'm not interested in good beginnings too much, you know, there are plenty of those, yet very few good ends 07:44:38 yeah 07:44:41 first thoughts, ro; you have two ideas here. 07:44:43 the quest -arc- will end with you making a decision about this raving lunatic, or parting ways with him, having "defeated" a "monster" of some sort, that he's managed to get you to believe in 07:44:49 One of them's a 'believable' madman 07:45:01 mhmm 07:45:06 the other one's a sort of comedy easter egg character for all elements of the supernatural 07:45:11 2. (most probably) guy is being killed while pranking 07:45:26 as in, you can't have him believe in ghosts AND mutants AND aliens and expect the player to go along with it 07:45:32 sure you can 07:45:33 because you're too obviously making him a crazy 07:45:39 not necessarily 07:46:03 (also, I'm really not sure about ghosts) 07:46:59 but having him believe in, and have evidence for, scifi things, probably won't be too hard 07:47:13 but I take your point 07:48:11 the 'conspiracy theory' nutter who believes in all sorts of supernatural stuff is an established comedy stereotype 07:48:18 Q, once we've established whether the idea(s) work(s), then we can work out how to do it properly in game 07:48:35 so if you give him one clearly defined imaginary nemesis, that might be more believable, non? 07:48:47 hmm. I suppose it may well 07:48:53 rowanas: this NPC has not much sense sitting in this arch. Where did he came from? Maybe PC met him before, maybe could met but wanted not to and player can recall that. Why is he spooking people at all? Why is he spooking PC in particular? Is he hiding something very big or valuable maybe? Or he likes solitude? Maybe there is another reason? How PC kan find out what is going on? Is there anyone else involved? 07:49:34 kan > can 07:49:58 so to start, and I have asked about the endings allready 07:50:10 but we can get to the endings later 07:50:16 sure 07:51:11 arch > arc, typing comes hard today 07:52:16 I believe he should be a perfectly nice guy, maybe runs a bar or hunts for a living. However, every now and then, he gives in to his insanity, effectively becoming another person, even to those who know him 07:52:58 there was a remake of the Jekyll and hyde story that showed this quite well. 07:53:32 ok, fits of madness 07:53:53 so in this case, why doesn't everyone that knows him warn the player that he's nuts? 07:54:11 there was no physical change, but jekyll's wife thought he was a cousin or brother, rather than the man she had married for several years 07:54:25 because they don't know, bobson 07:54:55 he's got a clark kent/jekyll and hyde thing going on 07:56:33 mmm... 07:56:42 but what do kent and jekyll have in common? 07:56:57 they're mild mannered, respectable people 07:56:59 they live in large cities 07:57:16 places where they can lead dual lives unnoticed 07:57:20 and are well known 07:57:54 Lois lane doesn't figure it out for years, in fact I think she ends up getting told. You'd think she'd notice of all people. 07:59:08 cause he has not glasses 07:59:11 heh 07:59:21 hell, people recognisable for a few specific traits can disappear just by not having one of them. I've personally experienced not knowing someone because her trademark look was not present one day 07:59:25 but you're right, rowan...it is unbelievable that she wouldn't recognise him 08:00:15 I'm no superman expert, but isn't that plot point usually made fun of? 08:00:28 i do think so 08:00:30 shhh.... shhh 08:00:55 ok, so superman was a bad example 08:01:00 but jekyll and hyde isn't 08:01:34 he never undergoes any form of physical change 08:01:45 but merely by his demeanour, he's taken as a different person 08:01:48 in the book, he does 08:02:06 I do not believe so, bobson. It's been ages since I read it though 08:02:17 non, he does 08:03:04 jekyll/hyde story has a second bottom - it shows dual nature of every human in post-freud christian society 08:03:17 hyde is described as small, ugly and dwarfish 08:03:55 ...anyway, you were referring to a tv version, I believe, so go on, and ignore my pedantry 08:03:56 but it's never explicitly said that he that is anything other than how he appears 08:04:33 he may appear to be small, dwarfish and ugly, by his mannerisms, gait and such 08:05:28 although they -are- called metamorphoses in the book 08:05:30 no...honestly, it is explicitly stated. 08:05:42 I'm skimming through the project gutenberg version now 08:05:47 yeah, at one point he looks down to discover he's become Mr Hyde 08:06:03 he even becomes physically smaller to the extent that his clothes no longer fit him after he's changed. 08:06:13 is that in the suicide bit? 08:06:25 anyway 08:06:25 yup. 08:06:28 your point is made 08:07:34 indeed, please continue! 08:08:41 (and, as has been said before, please don't see this as 'tearing to pieces' - but we do need to try to be thoroughly, remorselessly critical of everything we write) 08:08:47 well, I'm now pondering over the bloke (referred to herafter as Jekyll) being rarely seen, and his crazy side (Hyde) never seen 08:09:34 bob, I wouldn't ask for you and Q_x to discuss my ideas if I thought your opinions held too little merit 08:09:39 in fact, I'm disappointed that you haven't been crueller about my work. Be crueller, rowan! 08:09:55 well, I honestly, like all your factions. I haven't seen the most recent one yet 08:11:16 *** prock has joined #parpg 08:12:01 so, do you think the idea would work well if he is split, but maintains a degree of solitude, so that he is never (or rarely, there can be a quest about it) discovered 08:13:27 ok, so how would that quest arc work then? 08:13:45 the PC encounters the 'ordinary' him as a hermit, apparently sane... 08:13:54 when does the mad side kick in? 08:14:02 sometime during the night, perhaps 08:14:07 he offers the PC shelter 08:14:10 food, warmth 08:14:25 things that nobody is going to refuse 08:14:49 perhaps he is concerned (even when sane) that he is being hunted that night 08:15:17 but a storm comes, throwing shadows around his tiny cabin, and causing him to lapse into HYde 08:15:25 the idea of having his personality alter drastically depending on whether it's night or day would be pretty neat 08:15:26 Hyde" 08:16:11 I was thinking of thunderstorms. They mostly come at night (weather generation permitting), but could occur during the day, for extra surprise 08:17:00 so he won't lapse every night, but enough nights to keep the quests moving 08:17:24 ok, that'd be cool - but this is turning into quite a different beast from 'the player won't realise he's insane' 08:17:40 true 08:17:44 because if we're talking a complete personality shift...the player *will* notice. 08:17:55 well, not "complete" 08:17:57 but noticeable 08:18:28 so could we divide these ideas into two separate characters in the game, maybe? 08:19:12 wouldn't that eliminate the quests entirely? 08:19:57 depends on what kind of quests you had in mind 08:20:00 or perhaps it is simply a single sane man, driven slowly mad over time by imagined horrors 08:20:10 hmm 08:20:32 my thought was that the player's unlikely to accept quests from an obvious lunatic, except out of curiosity 08:21:01 indeed. So if they find him sane, they get to trust him, and watch his eventual slide into lunacy 08:21:02 so you could have the 'madman who doesn't seem to be insane' giving your supernatural quests 08:21:40 and, elsewhere, a bloke with multiple personality disorder who does change according to when thunderstorms turn up or what-have-you 08:22:02 hmm... 08:22:49 well, I am less convinced that the sane-seeming-madman would work, now 08:23:39 P.S. Q_x, I've been googling stuff to try and work out what you were on about (post freud christian society) but I'm at the end of my tether. What do you mean? 08:24:17 oh, mocked-up casual interpretation 08:24:27 psychological suppression of the 'bestial', I guess 08:24:33 Bobbobson, which of the (now 3) characters do you think would work best? 08:24:57 that assumes that the bestial is suppressed, and not just expressed differently 08:25:30 ...eh? 08:26:31 yups, that is pretty much what christianity does 08:26:35 well, as to the 3 characters; the mpd bloke would make a great small-time location/character to stumble upon 08:27:22 I think the sane-seeming madman needs work if he's going to function as a quest-giver (which I think you might agree with) 08:27:26 I can't see any quests for him, really. It would be so easy to never even discover him, let alone on a stormy night 08:27:56 that was directedat 1, not 2 08:28:45 *** eoc` has joined #parpg 08:29:28 nope, I agree - a couple of conversations would be fine for that character 08:31:09 ok, so, that leaves the slow descent into insanity guy, then 08:31:14 your thoughts? 08:31:53 uh, bit vague atm, plenty of potential. 08:32:10 I'd rather hold myself until I see more TBH 08:32:16 needs context, details of the imagined terrors. 08:32:36 like at least shape of a bunch of quests, anything 08:32:38 *** eoc|afk has quit IRC 08:32:43 *** qubodup has quit IRC 08:32:50 so you're both of the opinion that there must be more fleshing out. to the Fleshing Out Mobile! 08:32:55 netsplit? 08:33:10 ? 08:33:19 more guts and more meats and we'll look for weak spots 08:33:35 hehehe. ok 08:34:37 well, I've been reading over something, which has given me an idea for the third guy. 08:35:37 On primitive living: guys in Canada, one year with stuff like stone axe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_fteTJQ_Q&feature=related 08:38:44 Perhaps he is, in fact, truly sane, although it will appear that he is losing his mind. This could be caused by the existence of an actual mutant. As in, a boar or something that really is more terrifying than a normal boar, all twisted and bog-standard actual mutant-y. Having a single "actual" mutant in the game should serve to highlight that this is not a game of mutants. That the only mutated -anything- in the entire game 08:38:44 killing villagers and spilling green goop when you cut it, it's just scaring the shit out of a dude in a hut. 08:40:41 taking the only mutant in whole game is selfish. but again - why he not just cook and eat it? 08:41:07 because he has no sodding clue what it is 08:41:24 and yes, it is selfish. But it's finder's keepers :D 08:42:15 finders 08:42:17 '' 08:43:09 if you met a wild, gnarled beast in the woods, with horns and teeth where such things should not be, wouldn't you soil yourself and run away? 08:43:18 I know I would 08:43:19 I'd kill the thing and investigate what it is by checking if it is edible :D 08:43:33 heh. I call bullshit 08:43:54 *** aspidites has joined #parpg 08:44:04 dig a hole, snare it, whatever 08:44:05 hi 08:44:24 Q_x, are you scared of bears? 08:45:06 I have never seen one, I see often boars though, and those I'm not affraid of 08:45:43 if you met a bear while hiking one day, would you try to snare it, or would you back away quickly and quietly? 08:46:24 hey 08:46:49 We are not making a hiking game, but nuclear winter RPG 08:47:12 hey, aspidites 08:47:26 ok, here's my point: if you hadn't even seen that bear, but just heard it roar in the middle of a stormy night, while you're alone, a strange, unnatural roar, that no bear makes, you'd be terrified, like every other human ever 08:47:30 hey aspid 08:47:56 And IF i was desperate, I'd snare, even something that big, or dig a hole to trap it in and stone to death 08:48:16 not if you met it in the dead of night, having failed to get to your cabin in time before it got dark 08:48:54 even being chased by that unnatural sound, as you charge through the brush, desperate to get home 08:50:16 i see where you are going rowanas, but in theory, if you live in post apocolyptic siberia and are used to seeing strange scary things and having to "survive", i'd imagine while you'd be frightened, you wouldn't simply run 08:50:35 for the first time - sure, but we are talking about someone who takes care of such creature, who is hiding it 08:50:49 well, aspidites, this thing is supposed to be the only strange thing in Scandinvia 08:51:03 Q_x, where did that come from? 08:51:09 its like that movie zombie town. characters that we would have usually have taken granted as wimps end up being the protagonists 08:51:43 so we aren't talking about a bear? that was just an analogy? 08:51:50 true, but this is a hardened hunter. He's killed bears, he's killed wolves, but he has never, even in his nightmares, hunted -this- 08:52:44 meeting (even if he cannot see it) something that should not be, would shake someone who thinks they've seen it all even more than average 08:52:59 he's no longer the scariest thing in the forest 08:53:27 dunno where it came from rowanas :( 08:53:36 well, Q, it's an interesting idea 08:53:47 one I'll probably use some time, but I don't think it's right for this 08:53:55 I thought you wrote it, bit I can't find it, so I'm wrong maybe :( 08:54:29 completely random topic; i kinda wish we could get away from the standard leveling/skill tree mechanic 08:54:47 standard levelling? 08:54:52 theres an mmo that avoids leveling all together and focuses strictly on skills. 08:54:58 mny of them 08:55:03 ...I thought we weren't levelling 08:55:05 we will not have levels or XP to distribute aspidites 08:55:06 zen and I both hate levelling 08:55:28 From the GUI mockups, it looks ike we won't even spend skill points 08:55:28 so where are the supposed skill points coming from that show up in the mock up? 08:55:52 we've drawn entirely different conclusions :D 08:55:57 http://wiki.parpg.net/File:Qubodup-Mockup-char_creation_1-1.jpg 08:56:07 that sure as hell looks like points being spent to me 08:56:20 or are they only ever done at creation and dont evolve? 08:56:51 ojh. In qubodup's post earlier, he noted that there was no way to spend points in the latest incarnation 08:57:13 you can shape your character at startup aspidites 08:57:24 later there is learning-by-doing 08:57:38 or learning-bu-tutor 08:58:28 i see. while i didn't see any reference to xp, the existence of the start stats seemed out of palce without them. thanks for clarifying. 08:58:42 perhaps i'll re-comb the skills article. i've missed something obvious 08:58:58 no skill (or experience) points, no leveling up, but also not much that what haunted Ultima - "I have to chop down the wood for two months more and I can to kill the dragon" 09:00:09 there's no way to prevent the last few ppints of grind 09:00:14 points"" 09:00:41 so in theory, how would that play out? eg, i kill some rabbits with a knife and get prompted that i've learned stab which then levels up? or i kill those rabbits and am then prompted to choose a new skill related to the knife i used? 09:00:45 it's easy for skills you use lots, but skills that you rarely use, but need to be good at when you do, are horrible 09:01:20 aspidites, I figured you'd just skin with a knife, and get a point in knives 09:01:22 or whatever 09:01:35 from wiki: "The basic assumption here is that player pays points for skills. To avoid unbalancing, the more "popular" or "useful" skills have to cost more. This was also mentioned in a forum topic " 09:02:00 sounding a bit like my second guess, but dunno 09:02:05 I have this when tying knots, and this is real life issue. Without practice I'm unable to memorize those 09:02:58 so I think game balanced this way it is really good idea 09:03:01 so skills that you don't use often are forgotten? 09:03:12 bloody hell, I hope not 09:03:15 not forgotten, just not mastered 09:03:57 you can do something well with a book, but without it - its all not that easy... 09:03:59 like you learn uber chop of doom late game but never use it so proficiency (eg strenght of attack) decreases (not pst minimum) or it just sucks to begin with until you use it a fgew times? 09:04:10 I think skill trees are pretty much unneeded. Unlocking things at different levels, or needing 25 X to get Y is...thoroughly crap 09:05:00 rowanas: agreed, but i do think prerequisites make sense a al "you can't learn to do a jumping slash without first learning to jump AND learning to slash" 09:05:18 I disagree with the whole concept of "jumping slash" 09:05:33 as an example of the concept you're explaining 09:06:39 so youre saying that a skill that is obviously a combination of two skills should be able to be learned before you learn the lesser skills? 09:06:45 nononoonno 09:07:11 that there should be no combination of skills 09:07:35 sequences, sure: shoot the rabbit, skin the rabbit, tan the rabbit, sell the rabbit 09:07:55 come out of cover, fire, leap down a nearby slope 09:08:04 no, flying, slope firing 09:08:41 seems rather linear and ristrictive if you ask me. predictable even, which i wouldl argue reduces replay value 09:09:12 my third time playing this game, after i've done X, i already know Y is next. boring 09:09:22 bbl 09:11:20 see you later 09:11:42 later 09:11:43 I think they will solve it differently 09:11:47 we will 09:11:54 mechanic guys 09:12:29 there could be simply a threshold value to perform a task 09:12:58 like: you have to have mechanics at 8 to fix the engine, otherwise you will not succeed 09:13:01 never 09:13:13 or you'll learn trying 09:14:10 so you don;t have to unwind whole tree of abilities and skills, you just have to master some more general stuff 09:14:57 indeed 09:15:18 having specific skills for every task is irritating as a player and harder work as a designer 09:15:28 nobody wins 09:43:52 *** BobBobson has left #parpg 09:47:26 *** BobBobson has joined #parpg 09:52:46 *** Q_x_test has joined #parpg 09:53:22 *** Q_x_test has left #parpg 09:55:49 back 09:55:56 i do like the threshhold idea 09:56:36 !seen Technomage 09:56:36 aspidites: Technomage was last seen in #parpg 1 day, 18 hours, 13 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: That is true 09:56:43 !seen barra_home 09:56:43 aspidites: barra_home was last seen in #parpg 23 hours, 57 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: not much, how about you? 09:56:51 !seen barra_away 09:56:51 aspidites: barra_away was last seen in #parpg 15 hours, 37 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: sounds good to me 09:57:05 !seen zenbitz 09:57:06 aspidites: zenbitz was last seen in #parpg 1 week, 0 days, 21 hours, 10 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: nick zenbitz_afk 09:58:05 ooh - does it do any other tricks? 09:58:36 !coin 09:58:36 Q_x: tails 09:59:02 !dice 1d6 09:59:02 Q_x: 1 09:59:24 I lose every time 09:59:27 :( 09:59:37 Call me easily amused, but that's awesome. 09:59:42 !seen barra* 09:59:42 Q_x: barra* could be barra_away (15 hours, 40 minutes, and 36 seconds ago), barra_home (1 day, 0 hours, and 54 seconds ago), barra_library (2 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, and 5 seconds ago), barraAway (4 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 13 minutes, and 18 seconds ago), barra_semiafk (4 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 22 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), barra_groceries (4 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 29 minutes, and 27 seconds (6 more messages) 10:00:20 * aspidites calls BobBobson easily amused 10:00:30 !help 10:00:30 aspidites: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. 10:00:48 its awsom blend of supybot and plugins, also meetbot, lots of usful stuff 10:01:02 the other works with , 10:01:17 ,seen qx* 10:01:17 qx* could be qx__ (5 days, 18 hours, 11 minutes, and 19 seconds ago) or Qx_ (1 week, 0 days, 19 hours, 28 minutes, and 13 seconds ago) 10:02:16 !robot! Do my bidding! 10:02:17 BobBobson: Error: "robot!" is not a valid command. 10:02:39 Hmm. Something to be worked on. 10:03:37 !robot do my bidding! 10:03:37 aspidites: Error: "robot" is not a valid command. 10:03:54 was worth a shot 10:03:56 !bot 10:03:56 aspidites: Error: "bot" is not a valid command. 10:04:04 !ls 10:04:04 aspidites: Error: "ls" is not a valid command. 10:06:24 !list should do the trick aspidites 10:06:25 Q_x: Error: 'should' is not a valid plugin. 10:07:21 !list 10:07:21 aspidites: Admin, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, Games, MeetBot, Misc, Owner, RSS, Seen, URL, User, and Web 10:07:30 yep. thanks Q_x 10:07:41 at least it wasn't !dir 10:07:47 *** eoc has joined #parpg 10:07:55 ,list 10:07:55 Admin, Alias, Anonymous, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Later, Math, Misc, Network, News, NickCapture, Note, Owner, Plugin, Protector, RSS, Reply, Scheduler, Seen, Services, ShrinkUrl, Status, Time, Todo, URL, and User 10:08:04 just for the record 10:08:42 two different bots, yeah? 10:09:13 *** eoc` has quit IRC 10:09:21 yups, this is fabulous 10:10:32 !roulette 10:10:32 Q_x: *click* 10:10:51 thats funny 10:11:01 who is next? 10:11:10 !roulette 10:11:11 BobBobson: *click* 10:11:14 whew. 10:11:37 aspidites? rowanas? 10:11:39 *** eoc is now known as eoc|afk 10:12:36 what!? 10:12:47 do you play? 10:12:52 it has russian roulette, yet it's a IRC client 10:13:08 humanity has finally gone too far! 10:13:13 !roulette 10:13:13 rowanas: *click* 10:13:40 tension builds. 10:13:49 !eightball shall we try, aiming at aspidites? 10:13:49 Q_x: NO. 10:14:22 dunno what now, I'm clueless 10:14:24 mwhahaha 10:14:53 !eightball is Q_x a badger? 10:14:53 rowanas: The answer is a resounding no. 10:14:58 damn 10:15:08 !eightball what about bob? 10:15:08 rowanas: It is possible. 10:15:11 *** eoc|afk has left #parpg 10:15:34 dammit, it's onto me. 10:15:55 !eightball would the phrase "testiculos habet, et bene pendentes" apply to me? 10:15:56 rowanas: You know the answer better than I. 10:16:00 mwhahahahaha 10:16:07 fantastic. 10:16:33 screw all these real people. You're my new friendm UH-Guard 10:16:51 you know, he has the gun 10:16:58 !roulette spin 10:16:58 *SPIN* Are you feeling lucky? 10:17:03 !eightball can a man and a robot ever find true love together? 10:17:03 BobBobson: One would be wise to think so. 10:17:06 !roulette 10:17:07 Q_x: *click* 10:17:18 !roulette 10:17:18 rowanas: *click* 10:17:48 come on, bob. all the cool kids are doing it 10:17:59 aspidites? Beliar? 10:18:00 !roulette 10:18:01 *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?! 10:18:01 * UH-Guard reloads and spins the chambers. 10:18:21 i'd rather not die today 10:18:21 I tell mom 10:18:50 mum, Q_x. :D 10:19:02 what is mom in this case? 10:19:08 wrong 10:19:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message-oriented_middleware 10:20:14 hehehe 10:20:26 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mom 10:20:46 only people "oop north" say mom in the UK 10:20:52 you don't want to be like them 10:21:26 !eightball does rowanas have a mom 10:21:26 aspidites: Maybe... 10:21:36 I don't want to be one of those puffing editors that are behind webster 10:21:42 !eightball do I have a mum? 10:21:42 rowanas: I doubt it very much. 10:21:45 oh 10:21:50 haha 10:22:09 !eightball is rowanas a bot? 10:22:09 Q_x: Come again? 10:22:12 !eightball is rowanas a bot? 10:22:12 Q_x: You know the answer better than I. 10:22:15 !eightball is rowanas a bot? 10:22:15 Q_x: _I_ don't know. 10:22:19 OK 10:22:36 I give up 10:23:08 !eightball you do realise that if you ever betray my secret, I'll have you scrubbed from this channel, right? 10:23:08 rowanas: You know the answer better than I. 10:23:29 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mum 10:23:31 ... 10:23:41 !eightball would you mind giving us an actual answer? 10:23:41 rowanas: The answer is certainly yes. 10:24:05 mum is a beer since 1640 O_O 10:24:13 he 10:28:13 !eightball, do you have more than 7 responses? 10:28:13 aspidites: Error: "eightball," is not a valid command. 10:28:27 !eightball, will i ever learn to type? 10:28:27 aspidites: Error: "eightball," is not a valid command. 10:28:36 !eightball what? 10:28:36 aspidites: The outlook is hazy, please ask again later. 10:28:53 !eightball is it because i'm black? 10:28:53 aspidites: Yes! 10:28:57 ... 10:29:42 ironically, eightballs are also black 10:29:49 so...it's a self-loathing racist? 10:30:06 kind of like clayton bigsbie -- dave chappel 10:30:23 love that sketch. 10:30:56 !eightball did you know that you are black, too? 10:30:56 aspidites: I doubt it very much. 10:31:00 haha 10:32:05 stop taunting the racially confused bot 10:32:29 You have just made my day 10:33:00 what do you think? shoud we ban that sucker? 10:33:29 mwhaha 10:34:03 you want to ban him because he's black? 10:34:08 you sick, twisted bastard 10:34:18 wait...me or the ball? 10:34:30 both? 10:34:32 :D 10:34:39 I was talking about banning UH-guy 10:34:57 but without me there would be no one to fill the token black guy spot on this team 10:35:11 I wasn't aware until a few minutes ago that we -had- a token black guy 10:35:36 rowanas: you don't know what you have until it's gone... 10:36:00 I just kind of assumed everyone was a disembodied voice, except for Q, because I've seen a picture of him with actual flesh 10:36:04 and bob 10:36:15 ...wait, you've seen a picture of me? 10:36:40 ...is that *you* standing out on the corner in the white William Shatner mask? 10:37:00 who I envision as a fairly tall, rotund fellow with a very manly beard and rosy cheeks 10:37:09 sentence wasn't finished, bob :D 10:37:48 santa claus? 10:37:58 ...man, I wish I was more like that 10:38:20 apsidites, not that rotund 10:38:30 oh. sorry 10:38:34 instead of a scrawny 5 '10-er with a flaky beard 10:38:58 it is a spherical body that comes from having lots of muscle, rather than lots of fat 10:39:00 some day I'll have manly facial hair... 10:39:06 but now he's killed my vision 10:39:11 damn you, bob. damn you 10:39:12 thats ok. i'm 5'7 and this crap that grows on my face can barely qualify as a beard 10:39:42 aspid, you sound like the only man on earth less manly than I am :D 10:39:43 made military life easier though. hardly ever had to shave 10:40:12 rowanas: such warm words. thanks 10:40:14 I'm 5'8" with my trademarked "moles-tache" 10:40:33 or molest-tache" I suppose 10:40:35 ...what, so we're *all* short with grubby facial hair? 10:40:39 yup 10:40:51 Q_x, how tall are you? 10:41:13 as le courbusieur's modulor 10:41:15 anyone playe afterworld? http://www.afterworld.ru/ 10:41:25 well, aspidites, I lie, I know lots of less manly people :D 10:41:41 thanks. youre such a charmer 10:41:44 :D 10:41:54 no harm no foul though 10:42:06 its like that one arguing on the internet comic 10:42:27 http://xkcd.com/386/ 10:42:39 heh 10:43:27 well, I suppose if we were all 6'10" with muscles like 1990 Schwarzenegger, we probably wouldn't be typing right now :D 10:43:35 right - time for this rotund gent to head home. talk later, peeps. 10:43:39 *** BobBobson has quit IRC 10:44:12 so that afterworld projects produced a tech demo called Survival Tech-Demo and thought it was a good idea to abbreviate it - STD 10:44:20 mwhahahaha 10:44:40 is it based on the afterworld series that appeared a couple of years ago? 10:44:49 i've heard of people downloading a virus, but i don't want to download STD 10:45:10 rowanas: not sure. first i've seen of it and not heard of afterworld before now 10:45:13 *** Beliar is now known as Beliar|AFK 10:45:40 ah. 10:46:53 I refuse to believe that the russians weren't aware of the meaning of STD 10:47:02 those crazy russians! 10:47:06 They were 10:47:08 ubuntu forums have announcements dating back to 2008, so its possible 10:47:39 I'd go and download it, but why don't you try it out first, aspid? :D 10:47:50 they just like crude jokes more 10:48:10 i am 10:48:47 will test it out after my install of xonotic 10:49:31 may play some 007 for now though. 10:51:31 ooooh 007 10:52:53 got to go now. 10:53:07 speak to you all later, or not. It depends :D 10:53:38 well, I guess technically I'll speak to you later, just not necessarily "soon" later 10:53:56 depending on how you measure soon 10:54:10 *** rowanas has quit IRC 11:08:45 *** Beliar|AFK is now known as Beliar 11:14:22 *** prock is now known as prock|afk 11:17:39 *** rowanas has joined #parpg 11:17:46 change of plan! 11:19:16 lol 11:26:38 If you feelin "what shall I do now?" thing, waste some time here rowanas: http://www.youtube.com/user/SwedishMealTime 11:29:07 heh. I can't understand a word he's saying, but it's still pretty funny :D 11:30:46 not even "pre-fry the sausage"? 11:31:23 ok, so I lied. I can understand the occasional word 11:31:33 :D 11:32:03 I could learn the entire Swedish vocabulary for meal ingredients from this guy. Of course, I could only pronounce it like I'm very angry... 11:35:46 it is funny, but like 10% seems to have something in common with what I'm used to, like "smar" (butter) stands for "machine grease" in Polish 11:35:59 which is just extra funny 11:36:40 mwhahah 11:37:42 *** Bobson has joined #parpg 11:37:54 HE HAS RETURNED! 11:38:14 * Q_x hides 11:38:16 who? where? 11:38:30 AND HE HAS TEMPORARY MILD AMNESIA 11:38:38 OR MAYBE DEMENTIA 11:38:40 * Q_x hides more 11:39:11 HE HAS ALSO ACQUIRED A NARRATOR WHO SPEAKS ONLY IN CAPITALS. FEAR THE CAPITALS. 11:39:38 HOW DARE YOU MAKE FUN OF MY SPEECH IMPEDIMENT 11:40:24 SO DID YOU DISCUSS VALUABLE PARPG BUSINESS DURING MY BRIEF ABSENCE, OR WAS IT ALL HUMOROUS BANTER INVOLVING THE ROBOT? 11:40:43 Actually, I left, then came back 11:40:47 now I have to leave again 11:40:52 I wonder what'll happen this time 11:41:29 badmouthing of you? :P 11:41:45 :D 11:46:49 so... get a lot of badmouthing done? 11:47:37 not nearly enough 11:47:40 want to join in? 11:48:17 yeah, sure 11:48:59 hmm... it's kinda hard to find any flaws to mock. 11:49:33 !eightball will rowan's hubris bring doom upon his head? 11:49:33 Bobson: It is so. 11:49:42 mwhahaha 11:50:20 uhh.. rowanas' nose is kinda large! He has no social skills! 11:50:31 !eightball has that reduced the doom? 11:50:31 rowanas: The answer is def-- oooh! shiny thing! 11:50:54 err... 11:51:05 looks like our seer's lost it. 11:51:09 def? Def what?! ooooooooh. THe answer is Def Leppard! 11:52:59 !eightball should we rely upon your sound judgement to decide all of our major decisions? 11:52:59 rowanas: Of course. 11:53:22 I will never get bored of doing this 11:53:38 !eightball will I ever get bored of doing this? 11:53:38 rowanas: Of course. 11:53:41 NOOOOOOOOO 11:53:52 heh 11:53:55 it's just modest. 11:54:10 !eightball eightball, are you modest? 11:54:10 rowanas: You know the answer better than I. 11:54:27 wh...wait... what? 11:55:05 see, I think the reason you might get bored of doing this is that there really aren't many answers 11:55:20 you're overestimating my attention span 11:56:09 *** prock|afk is now known as prock 11:59:10 oh dear. I've just discovered the worst analogy ever: Politics and religion are like a penis. You don't pull it out in public and you don't dare shove it down my kid's throat. 11:59:28 you can thank Cracked.com for that :D 12:01:01 what a bizarre coincidence, I was just cracking up at the fake series of letters with Sandra Bullock 12:02:00 oh. That's the page I'm going to next 12:05:04 The paragraphs at the top are hilarious 12:16:38 *** prock has quit IRC 12:18:22 *** timong_ has joined #parpg 12:18:51 Bobbobson, is it just me, or have there been a lot of really depressing, miserable and (most importantly) not funny articles about childhood showing up on Cracked? 12:19:02 *** barra_home has joined #parpg 12:19:17 hi 12:19:19 um, I remember one written by someone who'd had an upsetting childhood 12:19:22 hey, barra 12:19:26 hey 12:21:17 hmm. I've read two, and there have been a couple of others about bad ways to bring up kids in the last month 12:21:42 hola 12:22:19 hi barra_home 12:36:27 you'll be glad to know my ugly Microsoft Paint faction map is coming along nicely, rowanas 12:39:03 I doubt it's ugly 12:39:26 you might be a talented artist 12:39:34 or even a mediocre artist :D 12:39:47 Ho, ho, just you wait and see 12:39:50 :D 12:40:16 anyway, I've only included the ones that have a specified location and that zenbitz hasn't yet shaken his head furiously at 12:40:22 so far...finland looks empty 12:40:31 other than helsinki 12:41:15 baltic'll need stuff too... 12:42:03 wait, you're also doing an entire map of the the PARPG "world"? 12:43:12 wait, should I not be doing that? 12:43:20 wait, what did you think I was doing? 12:43:26 waiting? 12:43:28 mwhahaha 12:44:20 anyway. I thought you were doing a map for a location, because you mentioned city randomisation 12:44:53 I didn't know you were doing a map of locations 12:44:54 did I say cities? 12:45:30 well, not a map of locations so much as a...'hey, what could be happening on this stretch of the map?' thingy for everyone's benefit 12:47:04 ah, I misunderstood. Well, that's really quite helpful. 12:50:02 back but semi-afk 12:50:06 *** aspidites is now known as aspidites|afk 12:50:24 semi afk? 12:50:40 back and forth 12:50:47 ah. ok 12:52:45 barra_home: i moved the build system to an epic user story since it deps on a few other tickets plus might be a bit of work getting up and going for windows 12:53:23 btw, i think i can use Wine for preliminary install tests for windows 12:53:49 aspid, if the mouse doesn't work, I can help 12:54:19 huh? 12:54:47 going afk for the better part of the afternoon now 12:54:50 After I had some issues, I discovered that some virtualisation software will complain about mouse drivers 12:55:15 bye bye, aspidites 12:56:33 nah, issue was lack of legal windows distro 12:56:43 hehehehe 13:01:23 sounds good to me aspidites|afk 13:21:16 *** timong_ has quit IRC 13:26:00 back for a second with a random idea: for stats. 13:26:10 ooh. do tell 13:26:30 the argument against using pure python objects was the fear that it would be less accessible to non-programmers 13:26:43 mhmm 13:27:00 if we mapped primary stats to modules that only had variable declarations, i doubt they could be misunderstood too much 13:27:08 give me a few minutes and i'll give you a visual 13:27:32 ok. 13:33:38 *** Bobson has quit IRC 13:34:15 *** Bobson has joined #parpg 13:34:16 done. just need to screenshot and pastebin 13:34:31 hello again bobson 13:34:36 accidentally delete the room? 13:34:45 er, no 13:34:49 no, of course not 13:34:53 why would you think that? 13:35:40 well, with you busy lifestyle and heavy workload, it can be hard to manage all of those screens at once 13:35:43 your"" 13:35:55 you're telling me! 13:36:19 *goes back to minesweeper 13:36:26 I thought perhaps you had left to research a supermodel, or to test the warmth of your tennis-court-sized indoor pool 13:36:43 I'm in it right now 13:36:53 my butler, Jenkins, is holding the laptop up so it doesn't get wet 13:36:57 he's soaking, of course 13:37:03 mwhahaha 13:37:06 bleh, i'll just explain it 13:37:12 ok, aspid 13:37:26 we add a package called packages with sub packages called PrimaryStatistics and SecondaryStatistics respectively 13:37:45 which contain only the ints related to stats? 13:38:01 in each of these sub packages are modules named after the statistic which then only have variables representign their values 13:38:27 (I knew it. I demand a medal) 13:38:30 in this way, a player need only write a file similar to this in order to create a new stat 13:38:42 ooooh 13:39:32 hmmm... that would work, but those files will have to hold a lot of detailed and lengthy information 13:39:43 http://parpg.pastebin.com/DnAhLiU7 13:40:04 rowanas: they will haev to hold a lot less info than the xml equivalent of such 13:40:29 how so? 13:41:22 http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/browser/branches/active/character_customization/game/character_scripts/primary_stats.xml 13:41:34 only pay attention to lines 3 through 10 13:41:45 *** Sindwiller has joined #parpg 13:41:52 moo :) 13:42:06 the argument against my idea might go something like "but then we need a separate file for each stat 13:42:12 Which one of you is of Polish descent? ^^ 13:42:31 Q_x is polish 13:42:38 he might not be of polish descent though 13:42:40 moo! 13:42:43 my rebuttal: we already have a separate file for each object, so how is it different? plus we could always zip them up, since python is able to imort from zip files 13:42:50 the code remains simple to: 13:42:57 from statistics.PrimaryStats import strength 13:43:05 print strength.short_name 13:43:05 Q_x, heh, so you found me on Facebook, eh? :) 13:43:10 >> ST 13:43:29 lol, I did 13:43:39 true. My objections to that system apply to both the xml and module systems 13:43:42 we're mooing that happily 13:43:56 Q_x, I was quite confused until I saw that you had parpg.net on your activities list^^ 13:43:57 and the modules do -look- much easier to deal with 13:44:22 cause it is important project to me Sindwiller 13:44:25 :) 13:45:15 only remaining objection that i can think of is size 13:46:37 actually, my objection is incompleteness 13:46:39 I'm pretty much a man from outer space, friending whoever I'm able to seek there last times Sindwiller, but it helps me a lot to feel that I actually live in a community of real people, not just anonymous nicks 13:47:26 Q_x, is that why you also hunted me down? :D 13:48:10 that was for a different reason 13:48:12 aspidites, these files give no indication of... anything... to do with the stats. No skills, nothing 13:48:12 :P 13:48:16 :D 13:49:27 Q_x, that's cool :) 13:49:42 rowanas: they aren't supposed to give indication of skills at all 13:49:47 1. its a prototype 13:49:52 aspidites, since I assume that we'll do the same thing with skills to make them more accessible, hunting through a couple dozen modules to find all the skills you want linked to a certain stat, and then altering them all, seems to remove any of the benefit you would gain from modding them at all! 13:50:10 2. see relevant http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=838.0 13:51:22 rowanas: by the way. midway thorugh your argument, i found another alternative: http://parpg.pastebin.com/bcHCj2yP 13:51:31 ok, ok. I'll shut up until it's time to make the proper versions 13:51:46 only one more line and some extra indentation. the difference: this then allows all stats to be in a single module, rather than a package 13:52:15 indeed 13:52:21 in theory, you could mix skills this way as well, but i'd imagine skills would be in a separate module 13:52:30 best of both worlds and no xml, IMHO 13:52:51 i'd be hard pressed to believe a user would complain about having to edit this versus the xml version 13:54:17 as for the bit about the stats making themselves known to a registry, python has a built in object, __subclasses__ (IIRC) that could be used for such a purpose. 13:54:51 anyways, off to work out for real this time, just wanted to get that recorded somewhere for consumption/criticism/chastizing/posterity 13:55:17 ok, cheers 13:55:27 it is, indeed, superior 13:58:32 rowanas: we are not mooing happily, why would that be a good reason? 13:58:50 ...? 13:59:31 ? ...? 14:00:27 !eightball any idea what they're talking about, robot? 14:00:27 Bobson: No chance. 14:01:01 !eightball Would you mind stinging Q with electric shocks until he explains himself? 14:01:10 damn 14:01:20 !eightball Would you mind stinging Q with electric shocks until he explains himself? 14:01:20 rowanas: NO. 14:01:20 now he ignored you 14:01:45 so... UH would not mind stinging you with electric shocks :D 14:02:00 I'm completely confused now 14:02:01 ok, Q, what did you mean? 14:02:06 I'm baffled 14:02:51 We are all in a pretty healthy and big community - here around FIFE, around freegamer, opengameart and so on 14:02:57 ok... 14:03:08 I thought well, what the heck, what is facebook for 14:03:19 playing crappy games? 14:03:44 I never used any external app there 14:04:08 not even once agreed to infiltration by alien spying stuff 14:04:13 mwhahahaha 14:11:02 well, because of that, you're the only person that knows what I looked like several years ago. Well done :D 14:16:39 well, I will add those photos sonn 14:16:57 so that you all believe I live in a very pesky place 14:17:02 :P 14:18:36 uhh... you live in Poland. Now, I don't know what Poland is like, but I figure you've got cities, towns, villages and large hills. Maybe some fields. That sounds about as pesky having to eat to survive. (Not very) 14:18:48 as pesky as"" 14:19:23 *** timong has joined #parpg 14:19:43 hey 14:19:48 hiho 14:19:56 hey 14:20:09 hey-ho 14:20:30 im into experiment with some electric guits 14:20:40 vst samples, not a live one 14:20:57 perhaps some riffs for a combat track 14:21:10 good to hear that :) 14:21:44 its an uncharted area for me in midi, second or third track with guits 14:24:07 as deep and bass-y as you can make it, please, tImong 14:24:18 lulz 14:24:46 bass is king! 14:24:54 is there anything for us to hear? 14:24:57 well, yep certainly i will need some 14:25:04 Q_x: not yet 14:25:10 just loading up instruments :P 14:25:28 bass players and drummers have not the best reputation in music world, at least here :P 14:25:30 timong, what do the intros of Kashmir, Iron Man and Orion have in common? 14:25:58 i guess something related to bass :D 14:26:13 i remember those of iron man and orion, but not crystal clear 14:26:55 they are very deep, and very awesome. Two of the all-time greatest metal songs, and Kashmir is one of the best songs by Led Zeppelin 14:27:33 the greatest, most hardcore songs, are all heavy on the bass 14:27:39 and hardcore is good for combat 14:27:40 :D 14:27:43 QED 14:28:25 nah, what we need for the combat scenes is some chilled-out soul 14:28:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbKY8pAIQAw 14:28:38 bobson, your right to speak has been revoked 14:28:40 :D 14:29:11 also, to type 14:29:17 no getting clever with me, sonny 14:29:37 damn your ingenious legal manoeuvring! 14:29:57 also, I stand by my position. 14:30:04 I'm picking up subtle hints of insincerity... 14:33:03 "you\re killing some dudes, but hey, don't stress out. Just sip some tea and lie back while your former opponents give you a massage..." 14:34:13 Now I'm looking for this old song, maybe from 1920-s or 30-s, with this extraordinary double bass line there, and all I remember is that there was record on youtube video, and that the song was about love... 14:34:27 what have you done to me? 14:34:48 it's horrible when you can't remember anything important about a song, but you can remember a tiny bit of the tune :D 14:35:43 loading up drum kit 14:35:46 and then bass... 14:36:27 DRUMS?! Take a leaf out of the book of the 1812 overture! 14:36:44 rowanas: I will find it 14:36:55 I admire your determination, Q 14:41:59 any of you peeps been reading/have read that thread about the game-name? 14:42:02 old thread. 14:42:07 indeed 14:42:20 I'm happy with PARPG. It's certainly unique 14:42:38 true, though hardly evocative 14:42:58 or...if it is evocative, I'm not sure what it's evocative *of* 14:43:11 It's Bloody Cold And I Think It's Getting Colder? 14:43:35 oh my this huurts 14:43:36 :D 14:43:38 genius! 14:43:55 *** LinuxDonald has joined #parpg 14:44:16 I'm just reading through one of the old Ragnarok poems and there's a few things that could be considered 14:46:17 it's not original enough, but they keep mentioning the 'wolf's hour', as in Fenris' rise...but the hour of the wolf's also the hour in the depths of the night when people suffer nightmares, when they're born and die... 14:46:48 But 'It's Bloody Cold And I Think It's Getting Colder' is actually unbeatable. 14:53:49 Dear Player, Save Me, and Also Whole World, Accidentally 14:54:18 BLERGH 14:54:27 no saving the world, accidentally or otherwise 14:54:42 stumbled onto this, keep on searching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhsIcUf36c4&NR=1 14:57:45 I've got to go now. My fiancee and I are watching a B movie to celebrate the murder of a saint about whom the Catholic Church know nothing. It's special. 14:58:54 *** rowanas has quit IRC 15:01:49 Saint Trifun? 15:01:50 Shit 15:01:52 He's gone 15:02:06 And it should be Triphun(?) :P 15:04:38 wait, st tryphon? 15:05:58 I'm totally clueless now 15:06:11 and confused 15:07:26 ha, looks lie rowanas is spending his valentines day well 15:14:07 I boycott those :P 15:18:21 *** Sindwiller has quit IRC 15:25:14 im sure u gonna hate me for this...uploading something you will rightfully dispise 15:25:58 well, its just something to start out with, or right into the wastebin, tomorrow ill decide ;) http://www.box.net/shared/47x0trn5r7 15:27:17 the tempo is really going out of control for most of the instruments like a very amaturish band 15:28:09 i know how to continue it, but should I!?! :D 15:28:17 Q_x: help here 15:28:35 name makes me nervous 15:28:37 its completely fresh to me 15:28:50 chaotic 15:28:51 def sounds like a battle tune though 15:28:59 thats for sure 15:29:22 * aspidites|afk plays again 15:29:28 and plays nicely with at least two songs we allready have 15:29:47 lot of staccato, huh? 15:30:07 I feel this are more like two pieces that could live separate lives 15:30:13 Q_x: well, i dont want anyone to go mad while playing games on this music, so better think twice to use this ;) 15:30:24 Q_x: its just a draft, really 15:30:34 throwing up some ideas 15:30:41 well, excellent for a draft. i'd say roll with it 15:30:53 *** aspidites|afk is now known as aspidites 15:31:07 well, thx aspidites 15:31:58 I'm not saying this is bad timong, I like it a lot 15:32:15 without any "... just bla bla blah" 15:32:16 well, staccatto a lot,i listened to Iced earth a bit too much in the last week lulz 15:33:33 Q_x: ok, thanks for encouraging, i will try to beef it up with some escalation 15:33:48 put in lots of beef! 15:33:53 spam a lot 15:33:54 ;) 15:34:01 as well 15:35:32 have you seen how splitting hair with razor looks like BTW? 15:35:58 (most probablt not inspiring) 15:36:03 probably 15:37:37 ah, well, I really have to sleep 15:37:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AwOYbZmvlw 15:37:43 and goodbye 15:37:52 *** Q_x has quit IRC 15:45:45 *** rowanas has joined #parpg 15:46:02 Well... she fell asleep. 15:46:26 damn 15:46:30 ? 15:49:21 wow. Chat's dead. Looks like it's been dead since Q left 15:49:32 he only left a few seconds ago... 15:49:44 oh. I looked at the timestamps then 15:49:48 and i said damn because it didn't take her that long to pass out 15:49:56 ... 15:50:06 Well, what's the point of hanging around if Q's not there? 15:50:16 the movie we watched turned out not to be B-movie funny. It was B-movie tedious 15:50:26 well, thanks, Bobson. 15:50:27 oh 15:50:31 ah 15:50:34 eh 15:50:34 and she fell asleep 15:50:44 what was the movie? 15:50:50 Monster 15:50:55 it's by The Asylum. 15:51:01 this thing becoming something strange 15:51:12 normally their movies are funny for being incredibly lame 15:51:21 in this one, nothing much happened 15:51:41 depends 15:52:04 some of their later 'spoof' stuff has been deliberately lame, therefore, funny 15:52:10 but their early work... 15:52:19 this movie was 2008 15:52:37 'vampires vs. zombies' was possibly the biggest disappointment after an awesome title I've ever encountered 15:53:04 cloverfield ripoff, eh? 15:53:21 indeed 15:54:04 ...with an octopus 15:54:05 we had to fast forward to 6 minutes before the movie ended to see a single goddamn tentacle 15:54:16 IN JAPAN 15:54:18 :D 15:54:26 oh, dear... 15:54:48 it had a lower tentacle to second ratio than if they had simply walked down a japanese road for 90 minutes :D 15:55:57 soo.... yeah. Are all of you guys single, or just anti-valentines? 15:56:14 well... allowed to be anti-valentines 15:57:30 I actually didn't even remember it was Valentine's until late in the day 15:57:37 heh. lucky you 15:59:27 exporting second draft 16:00:49 there you go, suffer!! http://www.box.net/shared/47x0trn5r7 ;) 16:03:18 now i think it will need a low register riff combo intersplit for easier listening, and its almost done if i dont look at the brain smashing tempo errors ;) 16:04:00 Have you been listening to Primus or Rush recently? 16:04:14 no, more like iced earth :D 16:04:19 not that it resemble 16:04:21 s 16:04:40 heh. It's too... oriental 16:04:56 yeah, that might be 16:05:18 will try to ease that if you prefer solid western lulz 16:05:42 Being the voice of bass, apparently, I would exchange the high pitched sitar music (I have no idea) for a deeper, but still as chaotic noise 16:05:50 well... it IS in SCandinavia 16:06:21 hmm its a telecaster actually lulz 16:06:28 home of the heaviest of metal and vikings 16:06:53 I'm going to admit that I don't even know what a telecaster is 16:06:53 well i will have a look at how it goes in a lower register 16:06:54 and the blondest woman ever :D 16:07:14 mwhehehe. THanks for the input, Kilian :D 16:07:31 timong, does that mean deeper? 16:07:51 lets say lower, but yes lulz 16:08:14 deeper reminds me of something else 16:08:15 damn your hippie music-babble! ;) 16:08:42 damn your metal cravings! 16:08:52 an RPG fan who likes metal! 16:08:58 such a thing has never been heard of! 16:09:01 heh 16:10:04 I'm just saying... heavier = better :D (That's also my excuse for putting on weight) 16:10:35 observing lines 120 onward, which method between A and B would be preferred? http://parpg.codepad.org/XTqhJJcE 16:11:20 namedtuples are allegedly the preferred way of representing structs in python, but they are immutable, so using class attribbutes would be more flexible 16:11:58 instance attributes would be more "correct" probably, but complicates the syntax needlessly 16:12:01 ok, will replace with an ibanez 16:12:02 Ahh!!! 16:12:03 it cant hurt 16:12:13 * rowanas hides from the onslaught of things he doesn't understand 16:16:07 *** Beliar has quit IRC 16:17:03 later guys 16:17:04 *** aspidites has quit IRC 16:25:34 *** Kilian] has quit IRC 16:28:09 *** Bobson has quit IRC 16:34:34 rowanas: here it goes with ibanez http://www.box.net/shared/47x0trn5r7 16:36:59 damn. I wanted to hear them both, so I could accurately judge them 16:37:11 it sounds less oriental, from memory 16:37:20 but that was half an hour ago 16:37:25 heh 16:37:56 the score is just as oriental, but on an ibanez it sounds like depressive western metal ;) 16:38:22 ...so... sounds less oriental, then? :D 16:56:29 bye 16:56:34 bye bye 16:56:34 *** timong has quit IRC 17:12:40 *** rowanas has quit IRC 17:12:49 *** barra_home has quit IRC 17:29:51 *** vtchill has joined #parpg 17:31:09 *** Technomage has joined #parpg 17:45:51 *** rowanas has joined #parpg 17:46:01 Hi rowanas 17:46:04 hey 17:46:09 how goes it? 17:46:25 Busy day, haven't had enough time to work on PARPG :( 17:46:44 I'm sure you've put in your 5 hours a week :D 17:47:04 Fair enough :) 17:47:10 what's been so busy about today, then? 17:47:11 How's everything with you? 17:47:16 meh 17:47:22 Taking some vocational training classes 17:47:27 oh, cool 17:47:38 which ones? 17:48:01 Training to be A+ certified in computer repair. 17:48:32 Maybe start making money, instead of debt! 17:48:52 no technological fault will be beyond your ability to fix 17:49:20 How does the american dole system work? Beliar and I were wondering 17:49:32 dole? 17:49:45 uh.. unemployment benefit 17:49:49 Oh 17:49:54 it's called the dole over here 17:50:50 Well, I'm sort of in the void in unemployment benefits. I worked as a graduate teaching assistant for a few months, but no one here seems to think that was a "real" job 17:51:22 So technically, I'm not unemployed. Go figure. 17:51:32 hehehe 17:52:02 so, it's as bad as I thought, then :D 17:53:02 In general, I think that if you work for a company that they take care of your unemployment benefits. The government-funded safety nets are hard to work with and overcrowded, and they tend to just throw pennies at you rather than try to find you a job. 17:54:29 but, if you work for a company, you don't need unemployment benefits. Unless they just fired you, in which case, surely they fired you so they wouldn't have to pay you any longer 17:54:50 rowanas, where were you during our last election cycle? 17:55:40 paying no attention to which bloated capitalist overlord won America for the next 4 years 17:55:54 I'm not fond of american politics. 17:55:57 Seriously. Our debates have turned into: "do we want to have unemployment benefits?", instead of "how do we fix umemployment?" 17:56:43 Meanwhile, I'm sitting here on my ass, the next "bright", college educated generation, trying to find a paycheck at BestBuys 17:56:58 It's the way of things 17:57:27 education is losing to experience, as far as I can tell 17:58:25 Are your colleges like everyone else's universities? 17:58:44 I ask because our colleges are nothing like your colleges 17:59:16 Depends. The State Colleges and big universities, like the UC system and private unitversities, are pretty comparable I think 18:00:02 The community colleges are mostly vocational training. Nothing too high level. 18:01:07 ah. so your community colleges are our colleges 18:02:17 Hmm, so European Uniersities are comparable to 4-year Universities in the U.S.? 18:03:17 pretty much 18:03:48 how do 4 year unis work over there? 18:06:09 In 4-year universities, like Stanford and Harvard, and some state-funded Universities, you generally get both a general education in humanities, science, and other areas of your choice. By the end of the first or second year you generally then select a major focus area, which you then get a degree in. 18:07:24 Unfortunately, as you pointed out, there isn't a lot of vocational training. So you usually have to go on to the next tier and get a masters degree in some field. 18:09:19 hmm... 18:10:43 well, this has proven to be quite insightful. My knowledge of the higher levels of an educational system of a country I will never visit has risen dramatically today. I'll store that with my knowledge of Sassanid cavalry tactics. 18:10:53 Haha 18:11:03 thank you 18:12:44 Well we'll see. Maybe in a few years we won't even have universities any more. We'll just have people with cattle tasers and a bit hampster wheel. 18:12:58 mwhahaha 18:13:46 I reckon we're moving towards a much more module-based approach. I'm hoping, at least 18:15:45 Higher up modules will end up requiring certain core modules, with additional modules available if you want them. So, if you want to study chemistry, you need not bother with the trigonometry modules, as long as you have proved your worth in the chemistry related modules 18:16:59 Hmm, I'm not against general education by any means. Specialization just leads to people throwing food at each other in ever more sophisiticated ways. 18:17:01 *** eoc` has joined #parpg 18:17:13 hehehe 18:17:36 But some state-funded job training would be nice 18:18:15 well, are your community colleges free? I guess not, or there would be no such thing as college savings 18:19:12 Its pretty inexpensive, but most are severely underfunded and overcrowded and have a reputation for bad teaching. 18:20:05 ahhh. whereas over here, colleges are considered like schools, only at a higher level. People without college educations are a rarity 18:20:08 But in general, if you don't have at least a 4-year degree on your resume most employers don't want to hire you 18:20:44 hmm. much greater focus on degrees over there 18:21:08 Well there has been talk lately of increasing funding to community colleges. Hopefully it pans out - it really helps pull a lot of people out of poverty. 18:21:22 perhaps that is because of a lower standard of "basic" education 18:21:51 well, I hope your politicians become less evil and it all works out 18:22:35 Not likely. But I can always move to Canada if things don't improve :) 18:22:41 mwheehehe 18:23:41 I feel sorry for Americans. At least over here we have the choice between evil, spineless and 50/50 evil spineless. 18:24:57 Indeed, our politics are quite pitiful. Though there are few places in the world with laudable political systems these days. 18:25:20 and yet we don't rise up in glorious armed rebellion 18:27:16 Nothering glorious about armed rebellion. We'd probably be taken over by libertarians anyway 18:27:21 The yanks have had practice, guns are plentiful and the ratio of cattle to politicians is in the populace's favour. Plus, you've had experience from throwing off the chains of progressive socialist overlords :D 18:27:23 nothing* 18:29:21 I disagree. Armed rebellion against a tyrannical ruler is the most noble of causes. 18:30:28 If it ever comes to violence in America, the world will weep for the number of dead. I don't even want to imagine to horror. 18:31:02 so instead we grow complacent and submissive. 18:31:39 Take Egypt's example. Non-violent protest. 18:32:25 it's nice, sure. But Egypt doesn't suppress their dissidents like the West does 18:34:11 U.S. at least has a somewhat non-biased judicial system to fall back on though. In Egypt, you just disappeared. 18:34:23 we do it without any violence, and that, if anything, is worse. You can't defend yourself when any action would be criminal. 18:36:56 when the media, the courts, your livelihood and such rely upon the thing you're fighting, that's worse than disappearing one day. 18:38:11 more insidious. 18:38:41 I disagree with that assessment. But I do agree with you general point: that it doesn't take physical violence to suppress dissidents, and many Western states are quite good at non-violent supression. 18:40:24 fair enough. 18:43:48 I would rather be dead than powerless. My worst nightmares are that I can't protect the person I love. 18:44:31 so living in a country that would rather lock me up nice and quietly is horrible 18:46:46 It is a great dilemma. Thankfully, individual power seems to have been growing with the advent of communication technology like the internet and twitter. The sort of unarmed revolution that occured in Egypt and in other countries like Iran, successful or not, could not have happened 20 years ago. 18:47:20 I disagree 18:48:43 You assume that it is because of, rather than in spite of, this technology, that revolutions occur 18:49:50 Sorry, that's not what I meant. What I meant was that it is difficult if not impossible for state governments to create media blackouts and commit atrocities to their own people. 18:50:09 ahh 18:50:37 I think you overestimate the free flow of news 18:51:01 things will leak 18:51:08 Imagine what would have happened if tiananmen square had been broadcast on twitter to everyone in china. 18:51:15 nothing 18:51:49 people would've been terrified and stayed at home, like they do when anything bad happens 18:52:54 In such a densely populated country? I doubt it. There certainly wouldn't be such a strong patiotism. 18:53:07 heh. Patriotism has nothing to do with it 18:53:31 IRA bombs in London? We knew about it 5 minutes afterward 18:53:36 we stayed at home, frightened 18:54:11 two towers? People ran about screaming being frightened 18:55:28 But those are examples of a small groups waging guerilla warfare on the populace. There's nothing anyone can do en mass about that sort of attack. Government attrocities, on the other hand, are attributable. 18:56:21 like those being committed every day in small doses? 18:57:22 the abusive schools in Africa, supported by state money? 18:57:49 Oh I'm not saying that twitter will be the salvation of human kind. I'm not a techno-optimist by any means. 18:58:08 But its better than nothing 18:58:19 ok, I'll concede that :D 18:58:23 it helps 19:00:50 Techno, what do you know of transhumanism? 19:01:05 trans-whatanism? 19:02:04 heh. never mind. THat tells me all I need to know :D 19:02:04 * Technomage looks up transhumanism on wikipedia 19:02:22 now that's the salvation of humanity. bloody wikipedia 19:02:30 Haha, agreed :) 19:03:15 *** chew-ie|log has quit IRC 19:03:58 Oh, I have heard of some transhumanist arguments. Basically the idea that we will correct all of the flaws that natured imparted upon us through technology. 19:04:20 well, flaw correction is only the beginning 19:06:51 Well, would it be fair to categorize human gene therapy propoents as transhumanist? 19:07:09 no 19:07:25 they do not embrace the ideal in it's entirety 19:07:48 that's like calling all vegetarians Jewish, because they don't eat pork 19:08:03 Alright, fair enough :) 19:08:21 heh 19:11:36 *** eoc has joined #parpg 19:11:49 techno, are you an atheist? 19:12:03 existentialist :) 19:12:40 I've never heard someone claim to -be- an existentialist. What does it entail? 19:13:25 Well, to be fair existentialism is sort of a broad philosophic field. 19:13:26 how does it differ from being a humanist? 19:13:31 indeed 19:14:41 I was wondering how you manage to be -just- an exitentialist 19:14:47 existentialist"" 19:14:48 It is somewhat related to humanism, I guess. At least in the sense that existentialists recognize that action (or inaction) have repercussions. 19:15:05 *** eoc` has quit IRC 19:16:12 Basically, as an existentialist I accept that I do not have complete control of outside forces, but that I have complete control over my internal state. 19:16:22 Or nearly so, anyway 19:17:37 but how does that influence the way you act? Existentialism places no moral onus on anyone 19:18:16 Meaning comes from action and my interpretation of that action. So I don't believe in absolute morals or anything of that sort. But at the same time I have strong individual morals which I have developed through action and reflection, and which I use to guide my actions. 19:19:15 That is a common misconception of existentialism. It doesn't preach that all meaning is relative and therefore meaningless. That is nhilism. 19:19:35 well, I ust wondered howyou drew any moral code from existentialism 19:20:02 Through learning, and doing mostly 19:20:43 but it seems you've gone for the fairly modern standard "relative, personally defined morality" 19:21:08 I'm trying to think of the name of an existentialist philosopher who I really like, hold on... 19:22:57 Bah, now I know I'm tired :/ 19:23:13 heh 19:24:38 Santre! 19:24:47 Sartre rather 19:24:51 heh 19:25:09 I'm not familair with much of sartre. He's famous, thst's about all 19:26:18 I must say that of any philosopher, Sartre explains existentialism in the clearist and most grounded manner 19:26:23 *** Wr4i7h has quit IRC 19:27:21 hmm. Then i'll read more of him some time. So much philosophy, so little time 19:27:39 http://www.amazon.com/Existentialism-Human-Emotions-Philosophical-Library/dp/0806509023 - Thats the book I was trying to think of. 19:30:02 Of course, sartre was an atheist. So maybe not the best example :p 19:30:33 well, is existentialism incompatible with religious faith? 19:31:38 Good question. Sartre would say no, as would many other prominant existentialists. But I would ask what "religious faith" means. 19:32:36 If you mean an absolute set of moral guidelines from which one cannot diviate, then no. 19:33:08 If you mean a belief in higher meaning than everyday experience, then yes. 19:33:33 hmm... 19:33:35 interesting 19:36:59 And I'm not using the term "higher meaning" as any sort of code word for a one and only God or some such. I mean it literally - humanists believe in a cause bigger than themselves, the human condition. I count that as religious faith. 19:37:18 I wouldn't, but ok 19:39:25 wait.. humanists? 19:39:34 you're a humanist as well? 19:39:58 I suppose so. 19:40:32 that answers another of my questions, which so far has not been asked 19:41:20 What would you characterize yourself as, if you don't mind my asking? 19:41:33 hehehe. THat's a very complex question 19:43:41 my day to day moral code is based purely on hedonism (not as most people think of it, but as it actually is), with the people I care most about having absolute priority over everyone else 19:44:31 I would deprive anyone or anything of joy, to provide it to someone with worth, as I judge it 19:45:18 Zenbitz calls me a psychopath 19:45:20 Hmm, interesting. 19:45:22 lol 19:45:25 :D 19:45:57 merely by knowing someone, they have infinitely greater worth than someone I do not 19:46:33 do not know"" 19:46:47 That's actually quite similar to my own modus operandi. 19:47:16 I doubt you would practice as you preach 19:47:33 How so? 19:48:26 would you strangle a stranger in cold blood to bring a smile to the face of a friend? (assuming no repurcussions) 19:49:50 Well... no :) But hypothetical situations aside, I do favor the happiness of my closest friends and family over that of a complete stranger 19:49:59 heh. 19:50:04 that makes perfect sense 19:50:25 youre not devoid of emotional responses 19:50:27 you're 19:58:43 *** linuxdonald_ has joined #parpg 20:01:33 *** LinuxDonald has quit IRC 20:05:02 My brain is now officially dead for the day. Time for the boob tube. L8er 20:05:10 *** Technomage has quit IRC 20:05:21 *** rowanas has quit IRC 20:37:23 *** intripoon_ has joined #parpg 20:40:26 *** intripoon has quit IRC 21:38:12 *** linuxdonald_ has quit IRC