View Full Version : Bouncing Bettys

03-01-2005, 01:39 PM
I'm pretty new to PF but have lots of time on CFS 1,2 & 3, Falcon 4.x, Mig Alley, etc. I'm having a lot of problems shooting down Bettys when flying the P-40 in a stand alone campaign. I do fine with the fighters, but the rear gunner keeps getting me when I try a trailing approach. I know enough to keep moving around, but to do any damage, it seems like I have to give it at least a one second burst from closer than .3 and in that one second, I get nailed! I've also tried head on and a variety of high deflection shots with very little luck. I've tried to aim at both the fuselage (very little luck), engines (the best) or the wings (they are suppost to be vulnerable but I've had no luck). Can anyone help with some suggestions as to tactics?

03-01-2005, 02:30 PM
Dive on them from above. Try to get your airspeed above 200 km/h faster than theirs in the dive. Pick out a bomber on the edge of their formation. As you're coming down, aim for its engines. Continue diving past at and below it, then turn away from the formation and climb above them and try again.

Also, you can try giving them headon attacks. Also, if you kill either pilot, the rest of the crew will bail out, regardless of whether there is anyone left that is qualified to fly the aircraft.

03-01-2005, 02:30 PM
Practice going on head on and high angle shots more. Seriously trailing a bomber is setting you up for the sucker. Your giving that gunner all the time in the work to line your **** up in his sites with practically no lead on his part.

03-01-2005, 02:35 PM
Sorry, I forgot to add something (and firefox doesn't like me to edit my replies).

If you get an engine or a fueltank to pour thick, black smoke, consider that aircraft finished. It WILL explode sooner or later. No need to rake the bomber until it is totally destroyed. If you damage the bombers enough for them to drop their load or set them on fire, chances are you will get the kills for them when they eventually blow up, crash, or when they try to land.

03-01-2005, 05:05 PM
I was just reading an article by McQuire on how to bounce Bettys with P-38's. His tactic was to approach on a 45 degree attack from above aiming for the wing fuel tanks. Pass through the formation, come back up and do it again. That stinger in the Betty's tail is a 20mm which as you can see is quite deadly.

03-02-2005, 08:43 AM
Sounds intresting! How do I find McQuire's article?

03-02-2005, 09:50 AM
I tend to use 2 different methods depending on the target aspect at the merge.

The Head-On pass, aim for the cockpit. use this method when you are intercepting from a frontal aspect. On the betty, you have a rifle calibre gun in the nose. Shoot and blow on thru and set up your next attack.

The High Side Deflection Shot. From a trailing position, move off to one side of the Betty (this works for about any bomber) and stay out at the edge of his defensive fire range. Build Speed, and get abeam him (even with his wingtip or cockpit) and at this point surge ahead a little. Then pull Up and into the target. When you are just behind his wing pull back in a lead guns position and start to aim for his wing root or the area between the wing root and the nearest inboard engine and you will flame him. Dive away and to the side and set up for your next attack. You will need to practice this to find that sweet spot. What this type of attack does is keep you in the side and or the top turret gunner arc but he is going to have bad angles and high deflection to hit you if you can keep your speed up.

But the most effective attack is the Head on. The Germans perfected this attack on the bomber strings over the ETO. It was only after the installation of powered turrets in the nose of the bombers that made this type of attack hard on the attackers. But, due to a very high closing speed, it was still the perfered method.

Remember for a Head on to start targeting the bombers on the edge or outside of the formation, and work your way in to the center on the next attack.

Hope that helps.

03-04-2005, 04:32 PM

The article was in an old book titled "Pacific Sweep". It was about the two US fighter groups that served in the PTO from the beginning. In the appendices was the McGuire article as well as combat tactics on the P-47 and P-40. I can't remember the author's name offhand.

03-04-2005, 11:25 PM
Just google the "475th" 475th fighter group etc. T. Mcguires fighter group

03-05-2005, 08:46 AM
I found the German head on approach already mentioned to be the most effective against almost any bomber. The only one that seems to be more effective is to dive vertically onto the top of the formation but you'll need a fighter that can move pretty quick to get ahaed and far enough above the formation to make the attack worth while. When you go head to head with the bombers I've found it more effective to shoot at the engines rather than the cockpit. Killing the crew rarely works for me, and even if you do sometimes the gunners don't jump and they keep firing and its a big mess. Go for those engines. You can start a big fire very easily and that thing will go up like a Roman Candle.

03-05-2005, 08:49 AM
One other thing, when you go head to head make sure you do it slightly above the bomber. German pilots would wait until they were in firing range to jam the stick down and make their firing pass at about ten degrees of elevation. It made them harder to track by the gunners that could be brought to bear on them and it let their round sort of walk across the whole nose section.