Session 201810271

Session 201810271
“The Science Wave: Catching Up to Einstein”
“Perception: Question Your Reflections"
“The Function of Feelings”
“Time and Light”
"Black Holes"

(A link to Mary's talk before the session is available here)

Saturday, October 27, 2018 (Group/Hinsdale, New Hampshire)

Participants: Mary (Michael), Ann (Vivette), Bonnie (Lyla), Brigitt (Camile), Denise (Azura), John (Rrussell), John H. (Lonn), Kyla (Amie), Lisa, Lynda (Ruther), Sandra (Atafah), Tariq (Jessik) and Val (Atticus)

"Perception is simply the projection of energy that YOU generate, in conjunction with time, that creates reality. It is a mechanism that creates reality…. That doesn’t mean there isn’t MORE to your reality than what you see."

“I now challenge all of you to be playing with your perception in how you can alter it, how you can expand it….In any situation, in any experience, there is more occurring and there is more possible than what your senses are reflecting back to you that your perception has projected."

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

GROUP: Good afternoon, Elias!

ELIAS: (Chuckles) Now, this day, for the most part I will open for all of your questions and your subjects you can present, and I will engage with you in that manner.

But I will begin with one direction in appeasing some of you that are very interested in a science wave (group laughter), which hasn’t begun yet, but in the manner that you are moving it is likely that it will be beginning very soon.

Now, in that, what I will say to all of you about this coming wave is it is likely not what you expect. If you are expecting the science wave to be generating a tremendous surge in scientific breakthroughs or scientific realizations or new tremendous formulas, you might be disappointed. That will not be the direction of the science wave.

The science wave, in like manner to all of the other waves, is a wave in energy that is addressing to what you already believe that isn’t necessarily correct, and addressing to expressions and directions that you automatically move in, in reliance on science and the different branches of science, and how that can be in some capacities limiting to you because you don’t quite understand the basics yet. You have a tremendous knowledge in relation to science thus far, but there are some pieces that are very basic that your sciences don’t recognize yet. And this will be a significant piece.

One of the most important pieces in relation to ALL of your sciences is perception, and this is the one piece that science doesn’t recognize yet. It doesn’t recognize perception as being the base of everything, and it is. Perception is the foundation of everything.

Therefore, the secrets that science wants to unlock begin with perception. Science is moving in the direction at this point in time of attempting to define and quantify consciousness. Scientists believe and accept that consciousness is real, but they don’t know how to define it. They don’t know how to fit it into their scientific equations. They know it is important, but they don’t necessarily know WHY it is important because they can’t define it yet, because science moves in the direction of wanting to quantify whatever they are examining, and it is very difficult to quantify consciousness, because consciousness isn’t a THING. Therefore, it is difficult to quantify something that isn’t a thing.

In this, that, in their estimation, let us say, leads them in the directions of ideas rather than things, but consciousness isn’t merely an idea. What they don’t recognize yet, and what they define incorrectly to this point, is perception. And that is the base of everything in relation to science.

That will be one of the most affecting pieces in this wave as it approaches. In this, it isn’t only scientists that will be considerably challenged by this expression and mechanism of perception, but most of you also, as we have recently recognized that most of YOU incorporate definitions of perception that are incorrect. And even if you can offer a definition of perception in words that sounds as if you have a correct definition of perception, in actual practical application you don’t use that. You express perception in a very different manner. And as an example of that, I will ask each of you – excluding you [indicating Ann and John] because we already have discussed it – but I will ask each of you what your definitions of perception is. What is perception? How do you personally define perception?

SANDRA: Yeah. It’s, I guess, the way I blank reality… (Inaudible; group chatter as microphone is passed)…It's a group of senses, all five senses that are constructing, structuring something that I call reality, then I… (Inaudible; group chatter as function of microphone switch is discussed) … the way senses, five senses create. From that input, I… (Inaudible; group chatter and laughter concerning perception and the use of the microphone) Okay. Five senses create input, and then I make a translation of that input through my body or my apparatus, whatever you call it, and I construct reality or create an action to maneuver through my reality. That’s what I think perception is.

ELIAS: Very well. That is partially close. It is actually partially close, and I will explain why momentarily. Next.

BRIGITT: Well, I was in on that session, so I know your definition.

ELIAS: But what WOULD have been your definition?

BRIGITT: MY definition would have been how I see things.

ELIAS: Very well.

BRIGITT: There’s something, and it’s how I see it or feel it or interpret it or… yeah. That’s my description.

ELIAS: Very well. [To Val] And you?

VAL: And to add to that, I think beliefs have a considerable amount to do with it, the beliefs that we carry, how we perceive reality.

ELIAS: But what IS perception?

VAL: (Pause) In a sense it IS reality. It makes everything that surrounds us.

ELIAS: And how do you do that?

VAL: (Pause) Input-output. Constant changing. I’m sure there’s more. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: Very well. And let me express to you, all of you also: If you don’t know, you can express “I don’t know.”

LYNDA: That’s good.

JOHN: Ah yes. I think perception is the… like the conduit and the occurrence of translating non-physical consciousness into physicality.

ELIAS: Very well.

BONNIE: I think perception for me is an action, an action that involves all the inputs from the senses but also from other places, and it’s an action that then makes what I am experiencing. And I don’t know how I do that, actually.

ELIAS: Very well.

KYLA: I think you guys covered a lot, because I actually just heard the input as well, but perception for me would be… Your five senses are more of a tool, but it can go either way. It can go… Your emotions can affect how you’re perceiving. So perception is like in a sense a power, but you just need to know where you’re directing it. Is it…? In psychology they call it like an external locus of control and an internal locus of control, meaning the world affects you or do you affect the world. I would say perception is a power in that a lot of people don’t necessarily realize the power of it.

ELIAS: Very well.

DENISE: I don’t know. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: Very well.

TARIQ: Most people covered it, I think, my understanding, but I’d say my entire worldview in this moment, like how I’m inputting and outputting. I guess I’ll give a weird example of I smoke weed and I haven’t been in the past little while, and I can clearly see a different worldview that happens. So it’s an inner, subconscious, subjective/outward expression.

ELIAS: Very well.

LYNDA: I know from what you’ve said over the years that it has to do with time, and I can change it and make different things happen by my attention and speaking and expressing and changing an action, but I don’t… Stuff changes, but I actually don’t know how that works. But I know it works.

ELIAS: [To Ann and John] Now, what was the definition of perception? (Group laughter and chatter)

DENISE: She’s got it in her notes!

ANN: I have been told sometimes I listen but I don’t remember (Elias laughs), but I did write this down. [To John] Do you want to go by your memory?

JOHN H.: Well, what I remember… I remember more about what it wasn’t. (Group laughter) But if I remember right, it was how you process an experience with input from all your senses.

ANN: Okay. So, I have written down: Perception is not your thinking, it’s not your feelings, but they do influence your perception. And perception is a mechanism. In other words, like a movie projector – I stole this analogy from someone very smart – that projects energy into physical reality. So, it’s a mechanism, and it’s kind of like thoughts. You know how your brain doesn’t come up with the thoughts? The thoughts are around, and they come through your brain and your brain translates them? Well, perception is kind of the same way. Perception is… I might be messing this up, but perception is out there, and we use it as a mechanism to push it out, physical reality. And then once physical reality is out there, then we use our senses to interpret.

ELIAS: Congratulations! (Group cheering, applause and laughter) Yes. That is the definition of perception.

Therefore, what you were expressing in relation to senses is a part of it, but you were expressing that in reverse of what it actually is. Your senses ARE involved, but they are involved as reflecting BACK to you what you have projected and created. Your perception pushes out that energy and projects it and creates with time. There is the combination of energy and time, which together create matter, which is your physical reality.

Now; perception involves more than ONLY matter, but your senses input back to you what your perception has projected and what it has created. Therefore, your own senses are a reflecting mechanism, a reflecting aspect of yourself that allows you to see, hear, touch, taste, smell what you have created. And therefore, you can define it through your senses, but the actual mechanism of perception is a projecting mechanism. It projects energy outward from you and creates physical manifestations and matter, but not only matter.

And in this, a very significant piece of perception – or several significant pieces of perception – one is imagination, which is REAL, which I will express AGAIN. It is not fantasy. It is not unreal. Imagination is an avenue of communication, and it communicates to you what IS. Therefore, it is real. Even if it is communicating to you what is isn’t necessarily in your physical reality, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It doesn’t mean it isn’t real or it isn’t present; it is. Imagination is not unreal. It is VERY real.

And as I expressed to all of your friends yesterday, it is a very important part of your reality. All of you incorporate such esteem for Einstein. Take a lesson from this individual and recognize that he prized imagination above all else, and that was the most important expression to him – and, in a manner of speaking, should be to all of you, because that is the seat of your creating, is your imagination, be it good or bad. That this is what consequences come from, which are very real. This is what inspirations come from. This is what accomplishments come from. This is what failures come from, is your imagination. What you imagine, you translate into reality, and therefore it is very powerful.

But you are also correct that your thoughts and your feelings and what you pay attention to all INFLUENCE perception.

Now, as I have expressed many, many, many times, the single most affecting piece in relation to perception is attention. Attention ISN’T your perception; it is how you are directing yourself in relation to whatever is important to you in a moment.

In that, what you pay attention to is very influencing of your perception, because it is inputting information to that mechanism, and that mechanism in turn is projecting that to create a reality. Therefore, you are paying attention to myself, my energy speaking to you in this moment. That attention is providing information to your perception. That mechanism is projecting images. It is creating this room. It is creating the furniture that you are sitting upon. It is creating the floor, the ceiling, the walls, the environment outside, and all of the images of all of the people that are around you.

All of that is being projected outward in energy from you to create all of this. And you do it immediately, and you do it very vividly and very solidly. This is a tremendous amount of power that you are expressing. I recently expressed to individuals that you can think of yourselves as individual atoms. How much power does one atom hold?

ANN: Lots. All the power of an atomic bomb.

ELIAS: Precisely. That is a considerable amount of power, and YOU hold that much power and more, every moment of your existence. And you evidence it to yourself by everything that your senses input to you—everything you see, everything you hear, everything you taste, touch and smell. EVERYTHING that you input to yourself, every feeling, every thought, is all being generated by your perception.

In this, that is a very powerful tool. And it also generates in somewhat of absolute manners in physical realities, because yes, your senses ARE feeding back to you what you are projecting, and your senses ARE very absolute, but your perception is somewhat absolute also in how it projects to be precise.

Now, at this point in your development, in your evolution, what is important to be aware of is that you are moving in a direction of changing yourselves by becoming more self-aware, and in that, changing your reality by being more aware objectively and experientially of your interconnectedness. That is a part of being more self-aware. This is a very different experience from what you are accustomed to and what you have been accustomed to from the dawn of your species, because you create a reality in which your perception generates separateness.

You generate separate entity beings for yourselves, and you create separate beings for everything else, and separate manifestations for everything else, in which your senses reflect back to you that the tree outside is not part of your body. The floor is not a part of your foot. The electricity that powers your lights is not wired into your bodies. Everything is separate from you.

But as you are evolving and becoming more self-aware, you are becoming more aware – or you are moving in the direction of it – of realizing that all of these expressions of separation are generated through your perception and are very real in relation to your reality, but they aren’t absolute and they aren’t true.

You aren’t separate from everything. Everything IS a part of you, and you are a part of everything else. It merely seems that you aren’t because you generate a perception of separation and individual manifestations, but you aren’t. And you are at a point now in your evolution that you can accept that interconnectedness and that lack of separation without threatening your identity.

You don’t know how to do that yet, but you can. And it won’t threaten your identity, because your identity individually isn’t threatened or isn’t taken away because you can perceive yourself to be interconnected and to be a part of everything and that everything is a part of you. And that is definitely not intellectual—it is experiential, that it isn’t a matter of altering your senses to input to you that the tree outside doesn’t exist as a tree outside, separate from you. Yes, it does – in your physical reality. But that you experientially also know, because you experience it, that you ARE that tree and that tree is you. You know that through experience, and your perception allows it in experience. But first, it is a matter of allowing yourselves to relax your perceptions, to practice and learn how to expand your perception – not merely change it, but expand it to allow for more than you recognize at this point.

Therefore, when you are engaging any action with yourself or with other individuals—although it may be easier for you to practice in relation to other individuals, because they do present something different from you—in this, it is a matter of allowing yourselves to relax that mechanism of perception, not hold to it so tightly in protection of your identity, but to allow it the possibility that what is happening or what is being expressed outside of you might be different from what you assess it to be. That your perception, your projection of what is happening in your world, in your experience, in your environment, in your interactions, that projection is very influenced and has lenses on the projector in relation to what you believe – not your beliefs but what you believe in the moment, in the situation, in the environment.

Let me offer an example to play with, and you can develop your own version of the example. Let us say that you choose to engage an evening with friends, and you choose to be engaging fun and communion together and you go out to a restaurant for dinner. And you are engaging with each other, and there is music at the establishment that you are engaging.

Now; in that, your perception likely will begin automatically. If the music is what you term to be live music, you will automatically immediately perceive that as very loud and that it hinders your ability to hear anything other than the music. Therefore, without thinking you will accept that the music is loud, and you will automatically, if you are interacting with each other, begin speaking to each other in very loud tones, because you BELIEVE that if you don’t speak in very loud tones you won’t hear each other. You BELIEVE that the music that is being played by the other individuals in the band is very loud and overrides your ability to speak or hear unless you match the volume.

Now, that is a very strong perception, and it generates a very absolute projection of energy. And you reflect it through your senses in a very absolute manner, and you don’t question it, and you don’t think about it. You merely respond to it in these automatic manners.

Now; practicing relaxing and altering your perception to the possibility that there is more beyond what your perception is projecting – because your projector has lenses and influences that are all about you and YOUR information and YOUR experiences. It doesn’t include other experiences. What you are attempting to do in these practices is attempting to give your perception other information that it doesn’t already have and that isn’t only your experience, but allowing your perception to have the input of information of behind the curtain (group laughter), that it is projecting the energy, but perhaps there is a curtain that could be moved slightly, and you could peer behind that curtain and perhaps see something different.

It may not be tremendous, but you might notice something that you weren’t aware of before. Perhaps the band will not sound as loud. Perhaps you will notice you can hear someone speaking at the table near you that isn’t shouting at you but you can actually hear them, regardless that there are other individuals shouting at you and that the band is playing. But suddenly you can hear a conversation that isn’t being directed at you as if the band wasn’t playing and as if you weren’t struggling to hear what someone is expressing to you.

This gives you a difference in perception. Your projector has now incorporated new information, and it is including it in the projection. Now what your senses are reflecting back to you is wider than what they were projecting back to you and reflecting, and you have more to think about. Which, what is your thinking mechanism? It is a translator. And now your translating mechanism is being engaged to decipher what your experience is and what you are perceiving. It is translating it to you.

I would express that you can do this in any situation, in any moment in any place, by yourselves, with other individuals, interacting, not interacting. You can do it with anything.

In the beginning of my interactions with individuals in physical focus in our original group, I expressed an exercise to them to experiment with turning off one sense, allowing them to focus their attention in a manner that they could turn off one sense and not be engaging that one sense, and what difference it would generate in their reality – because their reality would be different, and in that, their perception would be different. That was an experiment and an exercise that I engaged in those early days with individuals that was about what we are discussing now, many years later. They didn’t understand what we were doing. They didn’t understand that this was about perception and changing perception or moving in a direction in which they were relaxing their perception, but that was precisely what they were doing in that exercise. [See Note 1]

And in that, you have much more information now and much more trust of your abilities now than they incorporated at that point. Therefore, I now challenge all of you to be playing with your perception in how you can alter it, how you can expand it. This is the movement that will be influencing your scientists to be paying more attention to this subject of perception and perhaps incorporating their own breakthroughs scientifically in discovering what the foundation and the base of reality and consciousness is in your physical realm, which is perception.

And I shall open the floor to all of you for questions.

KYLA: I wanted to hear your commentary along those lines of… in a sense, science has kind of acknowledged that, because when they put out a medication, it’s a placebo effect, okay? So, it’s a pill that someone thinks that might be the actual pill, but they show in their physical body as if they were healing even though it was a placebo pill. It could have been a sugar pill or something like that. In a sense, I think that they do acknowledge it, but not to the depths of what you’re talking about, because I always have wondered about the placebo effect and the fact that it’s in textbooks, they teach it in medical schools, so they DO know about it, because why would they have that?

ELIAS: Partially. But in that, what they are expressing is more in relation to perception being what you believe, that that IS perception, that perception is an opinion, that perception is what you believe.

What you believe INFLUENCES perception, most definitely, but they aren’t the same. They aren’t synonymous, because you can believe something very strongly and unintentionally present some type of information to yourself that you aren’t even thinking about, and your perception can change regardless of what you believe, regardless of what you trust, that this is real, this is absolute, this is correct.

A very significant piece in this in also how perception operates is that regardless of whether YOU are objectively aware of being interconnected or not, perception is influenced by that. That you don’t have to know objectively that you are interconnected—it IS a factor that influences perception.

Therefore, how do – as you are expressing in relation to a placebo and medications – how do some medications affect certain behaviors or affect certain outcomes if the individual doesn’t know what those medications are and doesn’t know what the affectingness is of those medications and has no information themself? But you are all interconnected, and you have much more information than you objectively think you do.

And in that, an individual can experience symptoms or affectingnesses from a medication, or from anything that they themselves have no objective information about, or in relation to a placebo. The individual believes that they are being given some type of medication that will generate a particular effect, a particular action, but in the interconnectedness of everything and everyone there are, in your terms, plenty of individuals that know that a placebo has no power whatsoever. All of that information is being expressed with all of you.

In that, the individuals that believe that a particular medication will, in your terminology, work – even if it is a placebo – many individuals WILL create a perception that generates that action. Some won’t, and some will have no effect whatsoever because they are tapping into or moving in alignment with other individuals that don’t believe it, even though they themselves may not express that they believe or don’t believe in a particular expression.

I have engaged individuals recently that have been somewhat astounded that they are expressing affectingnesses in relation to religious beliefs but they have no religious involvement, they have no religious affiliation, they have no interaction in a religion, therefore why would they be affected by religious beliefs? You don’t have to know anything about religion to be affected by religious beliefs, because the collective is aware, and you are part of that collective. You ARE it and it is YOU. Therefore, you have all that information. Your perception can change very quickly without you thinking, because it is accessing other information.

Now, what I am expressing is somewhat different, because I am expressing the challenge to all of you to INTENTIONALLY look for different input or REFLECT to yourself different experience that indicates that you are allowing more of an openness of that projection of energy, that perception that more is possible than absolutely what your senses are telling you and inputting to you. That in any situation, in any experience, there is more occurring and there is more possible than what your senses are reflecting back to you that your perception has projected, that your projection is only one frame.


JOHN: I have a quick, it’s an observation [that] maybe they’re interconnected; and then more of a non-question, because I…

My first observation is maybe (inaudible). It's like all the waves are innate to humans, waves and truths and whatever, except for religion and science, which are two waves that are manufactured human things, which is interesting. There’s something related to that, I think, in relation to everything you’re talking about. I don’t know how to phrase it.

The other thing is I don’t actually understand perception, I just have to be honest, and so maybe you don’t have to answer this question because it’ll come out in the thing. But there’s perception, there’s perception-ing, which is maybe a better way to say perception, it’s an action. There’s more to it because there’s other people that are going to influence my perception, there’s more to my perception, but there’s no official reality but there is a wider reality. I don’t know. I’m not understanding the definition, really (laughs), as you can tell.


JOHN: My reality.


JOHN: Yeah.

ELIAS: And you are correct. There is no official reality.

JOHN: Right.

ELIAS: There is no separate reality from your reality. That doesn’t mean there isn’t MORE to your reality than what you see.

JOHN: Yeah.

ELIAS: If you partially block your vision by cupping your hands around your eyes, you block out your periphery. It doesn’t mean that you don’t HAVE a periphery. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t a periphery that exists. It means you are generating an action in which you are limiting what you can see.

JOHN: Okay.

ELIAS: Perception can be viewed in a similar manner. Perception is your projector—

JOHN: Yeah.

ELIAS: That is your mechanism. It is your projector that projects energy, in conjunction with time, that creates reality.

JOHN: Yeah.

ELIAS: It creates expression. It creates matter. It creates reality.

JOHN: Right.

ELIAS: Now; because of HOW you are USING that projector, it projects certain frames. It projects certain pictures, certain experiences. That doesn’t mean there isn’t MORE to the picture or the experience. It is YOUR focusing of it in that projector that creates that particular reality. And yes, there are many, many influences that create different lenses for your projector.

JOHN: Can I ask one really quick question on top of it? Because I understand what you’re saying, but I’m trying to reconcile my other understandings. Because if you… You said previously if you perceive the world as flat, right, the world is flat. But you’re sort of saying that’s not actually true now.

ELIAS: No. I am not expressing that that is not true.

JOHN: Okay.

ELIAS: What I am saying is whatever your projector creates, whatever it projects, that perception is real. It is real. I am not saying it is wrong or it isn’t real—it IS real. That doesn’t mean that it is absolute only. There can be more, therefore, yes.

JOHN: It can be flat and round at the same time.

ELIAS: It can be. Because in your perception, yes, the world can be flat. That is what you perceive, and that is real. That doesn’t mean that it is ONLY that, that there is nothing else in addition to that. It means that that is real for you at that time framework. Therefore, if you reach the end of that flat earth, that flat surface, you would fall off, because you have created it to be real.

JOHN: Right.

ELIAS: I am not expressing to any of you at any time that your perception isn’t real. It definitely is.

JOHN: So, individual perception overpowers all other influences ultimately. And all consciousness, including all atoms, have a perception.

ELIAS: No. No.

JOHN: Okay, then…

ELIAS: Because—

JOHN: I’m done now. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: Perception is an objective mechanism.

JOHN: Right.

PARTICIPANT: Animals don’t have it.

ELIAS: Yes, they do. It is an objective mechanism. Therefore, anything that incorporates an objective awareness has perception. Therefore, does everything have a perception? No, because not everything is physically oriented. Not everything is objective. Objective awareness is limited to physical orientation. Without physical orientation, it isn’t necessary to have objective awareness, therefore it is not necessary to incorporate perception. Perception is limited to physical reality, physical orientation.

BRIGITT: So, you don’t have a perception?

ELIAS: No, no.

BRIGITT: When you’re speaking through Mary, do you have perception?

ELIAS: No. Michael has perception. Do I incorporate perception? No.

ANN: I have a perception that Sandra is busting out to say something— (Group laughter)

SANDRA: (Group chatter and laughter concerning microphone)I don’t even need the mike. I don’t even need it now. (Group laughter) There is a tree, and you want to set your projector up. Now you see the tree, you could smell it, it’s green, you see the—all right. Now you want to expand your projector. So, you said before, we relax a little. But also you said we project something. Now what could I project? Maybe it’s a crystal, maybe it’s a tree, maybe it’s Brigitt. I wanted to expand what I’m configuring. I relax, and then are there a series of mechanisms to accomplish?

ELIAS: You are complicating it.

SANDRA: I’m complicating it.

ELIAS: It is not that complicated.

SANDRA: I just say it, then it’s over?

ELIAS: It doesn’t require all of that complication. It is merely incorporating the question of “is this all that is, in relation to what I am experiencing?”

SANDRA: And then the projector opens up?

ELIAS: It can.

SANDRA: All right.

ELIAS: It is dependent upon how strongly you are absolutely holding to that perception. It might not open up immediately, or it might not open up for a while, because it is a matter of how strongly you hold to that projection.

SANDRA: Got it.

ELIAS: If you are looking at this individual and you are observing what she is wearing, and in that, you see what she is wearing and you designate each color and texture of what she is wearing, you have already set that in an absolute. You aren’t going to likely see through your visual sense her wearing a blue blouse.

ANN: But you know, we’re doing that. Like we’ve done that in the games on Facebook.


ANN: Some people see one color of a dress and some people see the other color of a dress.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. Yes.

ANN: Now that’s changing perception. And you can change it back and forth on yourself.

ELIAS: Yes, you can. And yes, you do. And that is an example. That is a part of it. It is a matter of when you look at that, it is a matter of merely interjecting that question, “Is that actually this color? Is that actually absolute? Is it possible? Is it possible to see a different color? Or to see a different style? Or to see a different texture?”

It doesn’t have to be dramatic. You don’t have to change the color of the blouse. Anything that might be different: “Is there anything more to what my senses are inputting?”and not forcing it. In actuality, you can’t force it.

SANDRA: And desire has nothing to do with all of this, for instance? Like if the desire is strong for me to have a different experience of Brigitt, would that play into it?

ELIAS: Yes, it does.

SANDRA: It seems to power it up a little.

ELIAS: It does. It does. It definitely incorporates a piece. But let me express to you, what is a larger piece is the willingness to (pause) experience different. That is more important than desire, because you can want tremendously to be expressing an expansion and continue to hold very strongly in that absolute manner, and therefore disappoint yourself and not be successful.

You are experts at being absolute with your perceptions. You do it automatically. You don’t think about it. And in that, that allowance for something else to be included with your perception is significant. And it does require practice, and it isn’t always as easy as you might think. It is simple in principle, in a manner of speaking, but it isn’t necessarily easy, because your perception IS so strong and SO absolute and so directed.

And your senses are very interconnected with your perception, because they are reflecting back. They are the mirror of your perception, showing you the mirror image of what you are projecting. And you all know how difficult it can be to affect your senses.

ANN: How come it’s easier doing it with the dress online? Because we think it’s online and it’s a visual —

ELIAS: First of all, that also is a matter of what you believe, which DOES influence, because you BELIEVE that viewing a color or certain textures on your computer screens is distorting it, that you aren’t seeing a definite absolute image, that it is questionable. Therefore, you ARE including that question.

ANN: Is that practice for us, I guess?


ANN: And those books, you know those books that you can see just a bunch of splotches and then you hold it just a way and then a picture emerges, is that also practice?


ANN: In your perception?

ELIAS: Yes. Because it allows you to practice with turning one image into something else or something more, that it isn’t absolute in one capacity, that that tree isn’t one particular color and one particular texture and in one particular position.

ANN: Is this just related to our senses, perception, or what about—


ANN: You believe that, like back when people believed that a lot of people were lesser and now we’re like no, that’s silly. Does that alter your perception?


ANN: We changed our perception about that.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

ANN: Those are easier perceptions to change than the physical perceptions.

ELIAS: Not necessarily.

ANN: No?

LYNDA: Differences are not that easy to change. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: For some individuals. Not for some.

BRIGITT: So, when I… actually, this has happened quite a few times. I step on a scale at the gym and I weigh a certain way and I’m thinking, “Okay. This scale is broken. There’s no way I lost that much weight in however many days.” I step off it. I step back on it again seconds later, and then I’m up five pounds. That’s perception?


BRIGITT: It’s not a broken scale?

ELIAS: Yes. (Group laughter)

BRIGITT: And complaining to the gym guy to get a new scale... (Group laughter)


BRIGITT: Okay. Thank you. I thought that, yeah. Now I want to keep that perception, the lower perception.

ELIAS: That is a matter also of practicing crediting yourself—

BRIGITT: Yeah. Crediting yourself.

ELIAS: That you actually accept and credit yourself with the first perception and don’t question it.


ANN: So, some weird stuff has been happening that I can’t tell you. (Group laughter) I mean, I wish I could remember an example, but I would say in the last week or two prior to coming here, weird shit is happening, and I’m just… But I’m like, “Okay, reality is changing.” And I can’t really recall it, but that feels to me like we’re prepping ourselves to get ready for… okay. It’s okay. I mean, I just feel like I don’t really know what’s going on, but okay. Something is going on. And yeah, yeah. Anyhow.

ELIAS: Very well. (Chuckles)

DENISE: In your projection analogy, when we open up to the question of is this absolute, does that change the energy that we’re projecting through, or does it merely fill in more details in the frame, so to speak? Or what?

ELIAS: Both.

TARIQ: How does it change the frame?

ELIAS: It changes the frame because you are including more. Therefore, whenever you are including more, whenever you are introducing more, regardless of what it is and regardless of how small it is, it automatically changes the entire frame.

Let me express to you in a very simple manner that you don’t automatically think of as changing your perception, but if you are looking at a tree and you are perceiving a particular environment in which this tree is, and suddenly a particular color butterfly lands on the tree that you didn’t see fly to the tree, but you see the butterfly on the tree. The color of the tree changes, the environment changes around the tree because the butterfly is an added piece in that frame, and the entire frame changes.

TARIQ: Is that what’s happening when like I think I’m having acid flashback or something, it’s actually my energy?


TARIQ: And not necessarily—

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. And that would be an example of real. And in that, not to be frightened but also to definitely, genuinely credit yourself that it is different, that you are generating a different experience and that it is real, it isn’t fantasy. It IS imagined, and imagined is real.

TARIQ: Thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome.

SANDRA: Could we get a definition of imagination before you…?

ELIAS: I have defined imagination. Imagination simply is an avenue of communication that involves the presentment of everything that is known.

We shall break and continue shortly.

GROUP: Thank you. Thank you, Elias. See you later!

(Break after 1 hour and 15 minutes for 1 hour and 10 minutes.)

ELIAS: Continuing. (Chuckles) And your questions?

ANN: So, my question is we were talking about— (Group laughter and chatter as microphone is passed)

JOHN: Two quick questions, because they tie together in my mind and I don’t know how to tie them together. So, we’re calling this the science wave, and I said this before and you didn’t address it. Religion is constructed, right? Science is a constructed thing. The rest of the waves are not constructions, right—

ELIAS: How so? What is your distinction?

JOHN: Relationships are not… Relationships are the design of… humanity. Other things that can be waves, the waves in truth, waves in emotions—those are things that are intrinsic to the blueprint of humanity, right? Religion is a constructed thing. Science is a constructed only less than a millennium ago, which is interesting. So, it’s science, and you’re talking about imagination. There’s maybe imagination and then there’s hypothesis and then there’s testing, and then there’s a conclusion and add to the body of knowledge, and like this circle. But in that, you’re also saying there’s perception and perception is real but it’s not all of reality. So perception is… at least it’s a part of what’s real. But what is real? I mean, there’s truths in consciousness that you talk about, but then there’s also things that are not truths that are surely real, like concepts like essence families or blueprints or whatever else. So, what’s real? What are we talking about with perception? (Group laughter)

ELIAS: Everything that you perceive is real.

JOHN: Yeah.

ELIAS: It doesn’t mean that it is the only piece of reality, that it is the whole of reality, although in the moment it is the whole of reality for you. That is the reason that you don’t question it and that it would somewhat require you intentionally wanting to expand perception to do it, because you don’t question it. Because that reality is not only real, but it is the whole of reality for you in the moment.

It isn’t that there is some other additional reality that is waiting for you. It is more the concept that you can make a greater reality. You can include more in your reality than you do. And in many situations, it would aid in your ability to be interactive and communicating with each other more effectively and more efficiently. Because you each do create your own reality through your own perception, they don’t always match.

They match in certain capacities, for the most part, because you are interconnected, and therefore in a physical sense, for the most part most of you do create very similar physical imagery in relation to objects or in relation to your environment. But in relation to how you process, how you express yourselves, what you believe, what you engage and how you express yourselves, you also do all of that through your perception, and that doesn’t always match with other individuals. Those are not as much of shared information and shared experiences and shared expressions as physical manifestations.

Therefore, your lens of your perception in interacting with other individuals is expressing in a manner that is influenced by your guidelines, by what is important to you, by what you pay attention to, whether you are paying attention or listening to your feelings or what your feelings are, and therefore what your communications are to yourself emotionally, and how you process information in relation to even thinking. Those parts of your perception are more individual. They aren’t entirely, but they are more individual than the other parts of perception. And therefore, if you were allowing yourself to expand your perception, that would aid greatly in how you interact with other individuals and how you communicate with each other, because you wouldn’t only be filtering through your own experience or your own expression. You would be open to and aware of objectively what is important to the other individuals and therefore what they are expressing.

And many times, you do interact with other individuals, and in that interaction you generate assessments about what is important to the other individuals, and you are somewhat accurately translating what the other individuals are expressing. But there are also many times in which you are not, and that is confusing. And either you become confused or frustrated, or it leads into conflicts or you are distressed, because you are assessing that the other individual doesn’t understand you or you don’t understand them.

And therefore, there are many situations and interactions that would be more efficient and easier and less conflicting if your perception included more than only your input, than only your lens.

LYNDA: How do you do that?

ELIAS: And that is what we were discussing previously: you practice. And how you practice is you begin with the questions to yourself when you are engaging in anything, whether it is by yourself or whether it is with something else or someone else. You begin by questioning yourself: “Is this only what I am seeing? Is this only what I am hearing or feeling? Are my senses inputting to me everything that is? Is this what I am reflecting to myself in its entirety?” Or, you can turn the question in relation to yourself and what you know: “How much of what I am seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting is what I expect it to be?”

LYNDA: That makes sense.

ELIAS: “Is it ALL what I expect it to be? Is it possible that there is some part of this expression that I don’t expect?” In that, then you are beginning to relax that rigidity of your perception, and in doing so, eventually you can present to yourself through that projection.

Let me express, you are still projecting, because your projection is creating the reality – but now; this is the key piece. You also know that you don’t create other individuals’ realities. You don’t create animals’ realities, either. You don’t create any other sentient being’s reality. Therefore, you aren’t making their choices, and although they are reflecting to you because of your projection, HOW they are projecting back to you, how they are reflecting to you is THEIR choice. And you know that. You have that information.

Therefore, it isn’t that you are not creating all of your reality—you are. But you can be privy to other realities, in addition to your own.

TARIQ: Through interconnectedness.

ELIAS: Yes. And through expanding your perception. Your perception, remember, is the projector. It is projecting, and that creates the scene. It creates the matter. It creates the expression. It creates the world. It creates everything that your senses interact with, be they outer senses or inner senses. It creates EVERYTHING that you engage.

In that, what your perception DOESN’T create are other individuals’ choices or THEIR expression. You don’t create their perception. You don’t create their reality. THEY create their reality, in the same manner that you do.

Those realities all are intertwined, but you only see yours. All of those realities are individual, but they are all intertwined with each other because you are all interconnected. All of those realities are not separate. And they influence each other, but you don’t know that because all you see is your own. Therefore, expanding your perception, expanding the input to your projector, allows you to begin to see more realities than only your own.

TARIQ: My question is, what do you see? So, there’s one earth, but I only know my reality. And not your perception, but what’s out there? So, is there a bunch of earths kind of sitting next to each other that are just interplaying? Or how does this work?

ELIAS: I would say that that is an assumption or an explanation that is very understandable and very accepted and expected. It is accepted by most of you, because that is the manner in which you think. That is also the manner in which you perceive, because as I expressed, you perceive in singularities. You perceive in individualities. You don’t perceive in interconnectedness. You see separation.

Therefore, it is understandable that your automatic question would be, “Are there many different worlds side by side and they are all moving, and there many, many different me’s, or there are many, many different other individuals living on all these different worlds and they are all moving alongside of each other?” No. (Chuckles) No. (Group laughter) Because it is all energy.

TARIQ: Not solidified?

ELIAS: It is, in YOUR reality. It is in many realities, because you incorporate objective awareness and perception. And therefore, you project energy in a specific configuration. You project it in a configuration that connects with time and light, and that creates actual physical matter. It creates physical manifestations. And all of your physical manifestations are individual. They are separate. Your table is a table—it isn’t a kite.

VAL: It has a different frequency.

ELIAS: Not entirely. No, that is a metaphysical belief. That is… Let me rephrase that: a metaphysical belief construct.

VAL: How about vibration? Let’s rephrase it: different vibrations. Like I’m part of the tree, obviously I project the tree, but the tree itself is different from me.

ELIAS: It is only different from you because you perceive it to be so.

VAL: But it… the atoms and everything that make up this tree are vibrating in the same manner that I am?


VAL: That’s amazing.


VAL: Because I can feel the energy from trees, and in actuality it DOES feel like a part of me. But I thought there would be a different vibration in—


VAL: In a rock? It’s the same?


VAL: And an animal? And a plant?


VAL: Because I’m projecting it.


SANDRA: So, is it kind of like what happens is there’s this infinite or out-of-time expression of consciousness which is an action, and then perception focuses attention and almost seems to solidify a little piece of all this exponential action that you could never even contain?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.

SANDRA: And it does it through time somehow? So that the vibrational thing—which is very helpful, by the way to see that—but what happens is that vibrational thing then drops away a little bit because it’s PERCEPTION that’s doing it. Now perception is consciousness also, isn’t it?

ELIAS: (Chuckles) No. No.

SANDRA: Aren’t mechanisms consciousness? Isn’t everything consciousness? It is?

ELIAS: Yes and no. (Group laughter) I would say… I would say yes only in the manner that YOU are consciousness. Perception in itself isn’t.

TARIQ: It’s an action.

ELIAS: And consciousness is an action. But perception is a specific action, but it isn’t only an action. It is a type of manifestation. It isn’t a physical manifestation, but it is a type of a manifestation, and therefore it is different from only being a pure action, which would be consciousness. Therefore, in one capacity I could express accurately yes, that it is consciousness as an extension of you. But more accurately, I would express no, because it isn’t a pure action. It is a manifestation that is also an action, but in that, it is different from YOU being a manifestation. You are an actual configuration of consciousness in a specific method that incorporates the action of consciousness, manipulates it and configures it into links that create the physical configuration which is filtered through objective perception that creates the projection of solidity of matter.

LYNDA: WE do that, not some outside consciousness god of us?

ELIAS: Correct.

LYNDA: Oh my god.

ELIAS: You do that.


VAL: So, would the links be energy that form the physical?


VAL: And energy is a thing, or an action?

ELIAS: Both.

VAL: Okay.

ELIAS: It IS both. That is very similar to what you recognize as electricity. It is a thing, but it also is an action. And in that, you see the effect of that thing, but you don’t necessarily always see the thing.

Air is a thing. You don’t necessarily see the thing; you see the effects of the thing. In that, air generates action, electricity generates action, electricity can BE action, but it also has the component of being a thing.

Perception has the component of being a thing also. But it is a thing that is used to manipulate energy in a specific configuration to create the projection of that energy in relation to other components—time and light—that allow it to configure in an actual physical manifestation.

Now; mechanisms that aren’t physical are not necessarily classified, in a manner of speaking, as consciousness. They are mechanisms. They are methods.

SANDRA: So, methods may not be. So, the mind is a translating mechanism, you say, so that would fit into this category.

ELIAS: Thought.



LYNDA: Thought itself.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. That it isn’t actually a physical manifestation. It is a manifestation, though. And in that, it is a method. Therefore, it is different from what you recognize as your bodies or as physical matter in your physical reality. It is different from that, but it isn’t necessarily classified as consciousness because it is a method. It is an intention. There is a difference between an intention or a method and a pure action or a thing. It is neither.

KYLA: I’ll chime in. I’m going to try to keep it quick. So we have, in our perception, in our earthly existence, past, present, future. But then there’s something called the line of infinity, and this is what I’ve read, that you can access it by being in the present. And everything… like time doesn’t even really necessarily exist, but we’ve been so heavily conditioned to think that it does, that in that line of infinity I find my impressions in my perception, it’s a way of changing it, almost immediately. When I become present, when I just, you know, I’m worried about something in my head, but is it really happening right now? Am I worried about the apocalypse and fireballs shooting from the sky? I mean, yeah, it might be a fun ride, but (laughs) is it happening now? No.

So this line of infinity, if you think of a cross, because a cross is… you know, you have the blessing of not being in a physical incarnation, and we have bills to pay and medical issues and everything. That line of infinity is the perpendicular to our thinking of past, present, future. So, is that a way to change, keeping that in mind, your perception?

Like if let’s say – I’m not going to swear, but stuff’s hitting the fan. Okay, let’s just say shit’s hitting the fan and it’s hard for me to be present. But really if you can develop the tools to even though you feel that anger, you feel like you want to smash somebody’s face (laughs)… you know that’s probably not the best thing to do, but then I stop and I say, “Okay, well, what reality am I reflecting right now?” And my tool for myself, I’ve been finding, is being in the present. And that’s accessing the line of infinity where there almost in a sense is no time. That’s where time meets… if anybody knows what I’m talking about. It might be a little too deep, but… Yeah. Is that a way, when I stop?

Because when I’m angry, I’m angry. And then I’m like well, let’s just enjoy the ride. But would that be a beneficial way to go about it? Because my practice this year has been changing my perception. This whole session has been… I need to hear this. (Laughs) But I’m trying to find tools to change my perception, because it’s not easy.

ELIAS: I agree.

KYLA: You don’t have bills to pay, Elias. (Laughs) The stress of earthly life and everything—in our existence tools, what would you recommend?

ELIAS: Precisely what you expressed. Being present is an excellent tool. And yes, it can change your perception. And it can also be an effective method to use in what we have been discussing today, in expanding your perception, allowing it to widen and incorporate more information or more possibilities.

Let me express to you, I very much do understand what you experience in your physical reality, and the stress and the emotional factors and the tension that you express. And I am very much aware of this present time framework and how much more stress and anxiety you express with yourselves and why. Which is the reason that I express to you so frequently and repeatedly how important it is to BE present, because stress is not about what is happening in this moment.

Stress is an anticipated factor, in very similar manner to fear. Fear is not about what is happening in this moment. Fear is an anticipated expression of future. Stress is also an anticipated expression of future. And let me express to you, your future may be five minutes from now, but it isn’t now. When you are experiencing stress or fear or dread, it is not about now; it is about what is anticipated. And in most situations—not merely many, [but] most situations—you don’t even actually know what you are anticipating. You can’t define what the anticipated stress or fear is. You may incorporate some generalities, but specifically you don’t even define that. You merely follow the feelings.

Therefore, this is the reason that I have incorporated so much time with all of you expressing information about being present and about not following feelings. Feelings are important. They are important signals, just as your traffic signals are important because they guide you and they keep you safe. Your feelings are those types of signals. They are signals, but in themselves they are only a signal.

When you approach a traffic signal, in itself they are only different colored lights. But each of those colored lights incorporates a message, a statement: stop, go, slow. Each one has a statement behind it, but in itself it is only a colored light.

Feelings are those colored lights. They are equally as bright, for you to see them, therefore they can be very intense. And in order for you to see them and not miss them, for the most part they are also very attractive. Therefore, you can view your feelings—whatever they are, whether they are good, whether they are bad, whether they are comfortable or whether they are very uncomfortable—whatever your favorite color is, that is what ALL of your feelings are. They aren’t different colors. They are all your favorite color, and they are all attractive. Whether it is anger, whether it is anxiety, whether it is excitement, whether it is affection, whether it is suspicion—regardless of what that signal is, they are all your favorite color, and you are attracted to them all. And you pay attention to them.

And how you pay attention to them is you focus on them. You stop being present. You stop paying attention to you and what you are doing. You become blinded by that favorite color, regardless of what it is, and you pay attention to it and you allow IT to tell you what to do: “My best friend went to the cinema with the individual that I am ultimately attracted to. This is a betrayal. I am so angry at my best friend.” And what does that anger tell you? That anger tells you, “Yell at the best friend. Don’t engage them. Don’t speak to them. Shun them. Shame them. Strike them. Beat them. Hurt them.” That is the feeling dictating.

And you listening to the feeling and responding to it is not a benefit and not helpful to you. What is helpful is you notice that feeling, you recognize it, you define it: “I don’t like this feeling. I’m angry. What is anger? No choices. Do I have choices? If I do have choices, then I can’t be angry, because I do have choices. But I still can be irritated. But what is this irritation? What is the betrayal? Can someone else betray me, or do I betray me?”

Other people, other things, other beings don’t create your feelings. They don’t throw them at you. They don’t project them to you. They don’t create them for you. The only one that can create feelings for you is you, because they are YOUR signals. They come from your body, not from any outside source.

And in that, your body is signaling you about what? Not what the other individual is doing. Not what the situation is doing. Not that your vehicle has a flat tire and you are very irritated. It isn’t the vehicle that is communicating to you. What is that signal for? That signal is alerting you to your communication to yourself about what you are doing in that moment. If you are angry, it is because you perceive you have no choices. If you are hurt, something threatened you and you agreed with it, and that is the reason that it hurt. If you are betrayed, you betrayed you. You generated some expression that was in opposition to yourself, not the other individual.

When you allow feelings to dictate, especially in negative capacities, most of them include blame. Whether it be with yourself or with other individuals, blame is a weed. It is useless. It is a poisonous weed that infects you and deserves to be plucked out. It is what motivates you to move in directions of vengeance and vindication or justification of yourself.

I would express that these are all wastes of energy. You have so much more that you can be engaging that is so much more productive and that is so much more beneficial and uplifting to yourselves, fun and comfortable and actually that promotes being happy. Don’t you want to be happy?

GROUP: Yeah! (Group cheering and clapping)

ELIAS: How you move in those directions is to genuinely be practicing being present and definitely not following feelings or allowing them to dictate to you. That isn’t their function. Their function is a signal, and that is all. They HAVE a specific function and it is important, but it is also important for you to use them with their function in mind, not in something else.

You don’t expect your cars to fly, because they don’t fly. Don’t expect your feelings to rule your reality. That isn’t their function. That isn’t what they do. And when you allow them to do that, or when you do that in relation to them, you likely will not be happy, and you will be confused as to why you can’t be happy. You can be, but it is your choice. What do you choose? Do you choose to be subject to signals? Or do you choose to pay attention to what you are actually doing and what is actually important? Do you stand on principles, or do you stand on what you are actually doing and what is important in being?

LYNDA: I like that. (Laughs)

ELIAS: I would express to you, all of you, that this also is definitely a matter of perception, because what you think and feel does influence your perception. It doesn’t create it, but it does influence it. And in that, especially if you are feeling strongly in relation to some expression or action, that can definitely influence your perception considerably.

ANN: Can I ask a question? So, talking about kind of in a kind of opposite direction of her stepping on the scale and five pounds lighter and then stepping back and it’s… Quite often, and it happens usually at work (laughs) when I’m reading an email from a customer that I’m perceiving is annoying – perceiving as being annoying – I will read a letter or an email and I’ll answer it. And then they’ll answer back and there’s a little confusion. And I go back and I reread the email and I’m like, “Woah! I just read that all wrong.”

So, obviously I changed my perception. So I just tell myself I had preconceived notions, I was irritated, I was perceiving them as being pesky and then I created that. I interpret it as giving myself a signal just to pay attention, not have the preconceived notions, read more carefully. But I’m just curious about that, like that changing the perception just… In my mind, I just made a… like I had set the stage for what I read. And I had read it incorrectly because I had set the stage.

ELIAS: But you didn’t read it incorrectly.

ANN: I didn’t. I read it because of… well, I had set the stage.

ELIAS: You did set the stage, and then you read precisely what you created.

ANN: Exactly. Okay.

ELIAS: You didn’t read it incorrectly, but then you questioned it because of the reflection that you received. And in that, then you became aware of “I did set that stage. I don’t know that I want to set THAT stage.” Therefore, you change it. And that also is another action of changing your perception. What I would say to you in that, that definitely is an example of changing your perception very quickly and almost intentionally.

What I would say to you about that is rather than telling yourself that you made a mistake and that you read it incorrectly first, but rather credit yourself for what you created both times. That you created the situation the first time in one configuration, you decided you didn’t like it, you wanted it to be different, and you reconfigured it and changed it and changed your perception, and you created differently. But you did both of them, and neither of them was a mistake.

LYNDA: Oh, I love that. I’m going to use that.

ANN: And neither of them was just me being snippy? (Group laughter)

ELIAS: You may be being snippy.

ANN: Ah, yeah. But that’s okay.

ELIAS: You may be being snippy. And why are you being snippy? Because you are paying attention to the feeling. But then you are choosing intentionally that you don’t like that. Therefore, because you don’t like it you are choosing differently and to express yourself differently, and you accomplish in that also.

ANN: So, in what we pay attention to, that is a way to change perception? Is that a tool to change perception? (Elias nods affirmatively.) So, what we put our attention on changes our perception.

ELIAS: Definitely. Yes. Definitely.

LYNDA: I know we have to… I don’t know what I think we have to do, but it… Oh my. I actually don’t need it because I’m right in front of the microphone. I forget that I’m right… (Sighs) (Group laughter) Interconnection. In this process of individually working with our perceptions, it seems to me that we will become more able to walk in somebody else’s tennis shoes. Not only just understand the other person, maybe do some kind of a mergence with the other person.

I don’t kind of know what I’m talking about. I’m not just talking about being compassionate to people. I think that’s a byproduct of I think widening, because you become more compassionate with yourself. I think I’m trying to understand what you mean when you talk about interconnection with each other, and we’re all so different. What is it going to be that will sort of maybe mind-meld us to at least experience our differences and understand them better? Is that what you’re getting at with it?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking. Although it isn’t about merging; you are—

LYNDA: I’d already merged. Okay.

ELIAS: What I would say is it isn’t about generating some specific or additional action than you already are, because your mere BEING is interconnected. Therefore, that already exists. You don’t have to do something to do that. You already ARE that. It is a matter of becoming more aware of it.

Now; let me express to you that when you experience and you are aware of the experience, you understand it. That is what understanding comes from: when you experience and you are aware of the experience.

Now, what that means is you have many, many, many experiences. Are you aware of YOU when you are experiencing it? In many situations, no. This is one of the reasons that likely most, if not almost all individuals, people in your reality, incorporate some—in varying degrees—difficulties with associations, especially associations that they generate in younger ages, because in younger ages you generate experiences and you create associations with those experiences but you don’t know what they are. You don’t know what the association is that you made. You aren’t aware of it. You aren’t aware of making that association. Therefore, you are experiencing, but you aren’t aware of what you are experiencing when you are experiencing it.

But when you ARE, when you are experiencing and you are aware – and you can do this in retrospect. You can do this with memory. You don’t have to make the connection, in a manner of speaking, or be aware in the moment that you are experiencing. You can do it with memory also. But when you connect the awareness with the experience, then you generate understanding. And when you generate understanding, it changes your reality considerably.

Therefore, if you generate understanding in relation to other individuals’ expressions through experience and awareness, if you are aware objectively of your interconnectedness with another individual – not merely thinking about it; this is not an intellectual action—but if you are experiencing being interconnected with another individual, and you are AWARE of it while you are experiencing, you generate an understanding. And when you generate that understanding, it becomes as if that was your own experience. Not that you are hearing about an experience from another individual or watching an experience of another individual, but you are experiencing the other individual’s experience as if it is your own, because you generated actual understanding of it, because you have the experience and the awareness together.

BRIGITT: Would that include the emotions involved in that experience?

ELIAS: If there are emotional expressions being generated, yes.

BRIGITT: So even though they’re not actually your emotions, they’re someone else’s emotions that you’re…?

ELIAS: You understand them.

BRIGITT: Would you feel them? Would you FEEL the anger or the frustration or the sadness or whatever experience…?

ELIAS: You might, you might not. You might generate – it isn’t an actual feeling as if you are feeling it yourself, because you aren’t generating it. But you have a sense of the feeling. Therefore, it can be by many individuals somewhat interpreted as if they are feeling the other individual’s feeling. They aren’t actually; they are sensing it and translating it in the capacity of what they feel themself. And they may generate their own feeling that somewhat mirrors what the other individual is feeling, but they aren’t taking a feeling from the other individual; no. That they aren’t doing.

BRIGITT: If there is no feeling, like one person is having the feeling but if you don’t have that feeling, are you still…? Well, you could sense the feeling but you’re actually not generating that feeling yourself, is it still legitimately an understanding?

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.


ELIAS: Yes. Yes. Yes. You don’t have to FEEL what the other individual is feeling. You can. That is what I am expressing about being aware. If you are AWARE of it, you don’t have to actually experience it yourself, but it becomes as if you had experienced it yourself, and therefore you have an understanding of it.

VAL: Elias, would that be like an empathic experience?

ELIAS: Very similar. Yes. Yes. Very similar.

SANDRA: Can that be exhausting or overdone, that process with people? Like can you always be with people that are always having tremendous difficulty and then it becomes overwhelming because you’re in—

ELIAS: It can be if you aren’t being present. If you are being present—

ANN: It would give you energy, right? I would think.

ELIAS: It may not necessarily boost your energy, but it won’t deplete it. It doesn’t take away from. You don’t necessarily become exhausted or depleted in any capacity because you DO understand and you ARE being present and you ARE being aware. And you know that this is interconnected.

You don’t have to expend energy to understand or to experience or to be aware. You don’t have to be using energy for that. You become exhausted because you take on the other individual’s expression and then you create it yourself. You create your own feelings or your own experience, and yes, that can be exhausting, because in addition to whatever you are generating yourself in your own reality, you are mirroring someone else’s reality also and generating a mirror of what they are experiencing. And yes, that can be exhausting.

But if you are genuinely being present, and you are genuinely being aware of yourself and you are moving in that direction of being aware of that interconnectedness, you can observe another individual, genuinely allow their experience to be a part of your perception mechanism, filtering in that information into your perception; and in that, you understand but you don’t have to mirror the experience.

ANN: I think I missed a part. How do we do that? Just by paying attention to the other person? By being present?

SANDRA: But doesn’t presence imply – I’m adding to this – like being quiet rather than…?

ELIAS: No. No. No. Being present does not mean being quiet. Being present does not mean being calm. Being present is being whatever you are choosing in the moment.

SANDRA: But there’s choice there first.

ELIAS: There is ALWAYS choice. There is ALWAYS choice. Presence is not… (chuckles) is not automatically calm or quiet. You can be very present and be very excited. You can be very present and be very active. You can be present and be being very expressive. It isn’t about being in a coma to be present. (Group laughter)

It is about being self-aware. THAT is being present. Being now, being self-aware, being aware of your choices, what you are doing, what you are engaging, what is your perception, what is your perception doing—everything about you, but also about everything else, because everything else IS you.

ANN: So, I’m the thing that will link the… Okay, I get the being present, being aware. But when does this happen that I understand his experience? When is that going to happen? What am I doing when that happens? (Group laughter)

LYNDA: That’s a great question.

ELIAS: When will that happen? That will—

ANN: I mean I’m sure it HAS happened in my life. Hasn’t it?


ANN: Okay. So, let’s draw from that. (Group laughter and chatter about understanding Ann)

LYNDA: No, that’s really a good question. I want to hear the answer.

ANN: It’s a good question, I think.

ELIAS: I would express that when that will happen, it can happen at any moment or it can happen in a long time.

ANN: All right. What am I DOING? What am I doing that makes that happen?

DENISE: Widening perception.


DENISE: You’re widening your perception to include his experience so that you can understand.

ELIAS: Because you are aware of that interconnection piece.

ANN: Okay.

ELIAS: Experientially, not intellectually.

ANN: Then THAT is the question. How do I get aware experientially of interconnection?

ELIAS: In what I expressed in the first part of our interaction—

ANN: I like repeats.

ELIAS: I know. (Group laughter and applause, and Elias chuckles) I know, and I appreciate that.

ANN: Thank you. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: You begin by those questions to yourself.

ANN: Okay. Oh. Okay.

ELIAS: That is how you begin. You begin by asking yourself those questions: “Is what I am perceiving in this moment what I expect? Is everything that I am perceiving presently in this moment what I expect it to be? And if it is, what DON’T I expect? What could possibly be being expressed that isn’t part of what I see?” Someone else may be doing something directly in front of you and you don’t necessarily see it, because your perception is being expressed in relation to what you expect.

ANN: I get that. Actually, I get that.

BRIGITT: So, would there need to be a motivating factor? Maybe she looks sad, so that would motivate her to expand a little bit?

ELIAS: It could, but I would say that the motivating factor is you—you wanting to expand your reality, wanting to be experientially aware of interconnectedness. Or, in very simple terms, wanting to be happy most of the time.

ANN: Oh, I can do that.

LYNDA: I love that idea.

ELIAS: Therefore, that would be the motivation, that you want to be happy most of the time. You want to be comfortable and content. And if you aren’t, you want to know that you chose that, intentionally, that “I want to be irritated today.” And that may sound silly, but I would express that there are many individuals that actually express that intentionally. And many of them that do, do it because they ARE generating that evenness so much that they don’t incorporate the spice.

ANN: The same with drama.

ELIAS: Yes. Definitely.

BONNIE: Do you have time to explain to us the light and time components of the projection of energy?

ELIAS: (Chuckles) Let me express to you, these are significant components in relation to physical reality. Without light, without time, you cannot create a projection of energy that will create matter, that will create physical manifestations.

Let me express to you in this manner: Physical realities incorporate time factors that are tremendously slow. Time exists in every area of consciousness, but without physical manifestations time moves so quickly that it is expressed as being simultaneous. Because it is moving SO rapidly, it appears that it is not moving at all, that there is no time, because it is simultaneous, that consciousness cannot be a thing because that would require non-simultaneous time. In order to create physical reality, the component of time must be bent in a capacity that slows it tremendously.

Now; the more solid reality is, the slower time moves. In realities in which there is very little movement, such as one reality that was identified in this forum a time framework ago in which the beings in that reality you would view to be very similar to crystals in your reality. In that reality, the beings move very, very, very slowly. You seem to be moving (pause) as rapidly as bees’ wings in comparison with that reality. It moves so slowly. That reality incorporates a tremendous density in matter. Therefore, time moves very, very slowly in that reality.

Time moves slowly in your reality because you incorporate so much physical density, so much matter in your reality. Therefore, it requires time to slow to generate that physicalness, that density of anything, of all energies, to create that matter, that physicality.

Light is also a requirement, because without light you have no depth. If there is an absence of light, even with the slowing of time and the incorporation of energy, it cannot create that blending in which the matter appears.

ANN: What about a blind person? I know it’s not what you’re talking about, but I just want—

ELIAS: I would express that what you don’t recognize in relation to individuals that are blind is that they… you perceive them as being in the dark with no light, and that is incorrect. It is not true.

Individuals that are blind see differently than you see, because they are not necessarily using their actual optic nerves to perceive in relation to their reality. But they do see. They see color, they see shapes, they do see. And they can actually see in detail. They merely see differently than you see. Even an individual that has incorporated sight and loses their sight, eventually they learn to see also.

VAL: Elias, do they use the third eye, or how is that processed?

ELIAS: I would say that that is, for the most part, also a metaphysical construct.

VAL: How do they do it?

ELIAS: Actually, in actuality—

ANN: Dreaming?

ELIAS: No. They very objectively see, and they actually see with their eyes. They see differently. They use them differently. But that is the avenue in which they see. They don’t see from their stomach—

ANN: What if they don’t have eyes?

ELIAS: It matters not. (Group chatter) Where the eyes would be is where they would see from. (Group chatter)

SANDRA: Bonnie’s question about the light and the time, could the light be something else that isn’t light like… We know light is a truth. There are other truths. Are they interchangeable, or…?


SANDRA: And is light color also? (Elias turns his head negatively.) No. So light is simply light, which we measure in terms of vibration, but that’s a perception of ours? That’s what we do to light?


SANDRA: What is light, exactly? It’s not energy. What is it?

ELIAS: (Pause) Light is another physical manifestation. It is an objective manifestation that is similar in capacity to electricity or to air. It is actually a physical expression that is a manifestation that is also a projection of perception. Without perception, you don’t generate light, because you don’t generate the manifestations that you believe create light. You believe light is created by certain bodies. Light is created by stars.

LYNDA: Or the sun.

ELIAS: Which is a star. (Group laughter and chatter and Elias chuckles) Or light is generated by harnessing certain other energy such as electricity, or fire. Light is generated by other bodies. That is what you believe.

In this, you create those other bodies. You create the manifestations that create light. Therefore, light IS a manifestation of perception. It is an objective expression of perception.

This is the reason that your scientists are (chuckles) behind, because everything in your physical reality is generated by perception. In this, when you combine the projection of perception in relation to the creation of light with the incorporation of time—

VAL: Is time projected also? Time…?

ELIAS: No. Time is a factor that is a part of consciousness in the capacity that it is a method. It isn’t consciousness, but it is a truth. It exists in all areas of consciousness. Even in nonphysical that does not incorporate objective awareness or perception, time exists. But it moves so quickly that it is designated as simultaneous.

VAL: Is that how we get the black holes? Is that a factor of time?

ELIAS: That does incorporate a factor of time, but it also incorporates the factor of the absence of light.

ANN: So is that not a projection, then? Because if you have to have light—I mean, is that not perception then? If you have to have light for perception—

ELIAS: No. You have to light for matter, for physical manifestations.

ANN: Oh. So, there’s no physical manifestations in black holes then, if there’s no light?

ELIAS: Correct.

SANDRA: So, these people that talk about meditating and going into the void, like we recently had a session on a religious expression that was examined and the terror of going into the void. This person was describing that. Is that place the place of no light?


SANDRA: There’s even light in that?

ELIAS: No. What I would express, the reason that individuals view that as terror and experience in that manner, what they are experiencing in relation to what they term to be “the void” is they are allowing themselves to project outside of physical reality into nonphysical, which does not incorporate emotion. There is no feeling, and there is no emotional communication. That can be terrifying to many individuals because it is so foreign to what you know.

SANDRA: Have we all done that in this group? Been in that place where we have completely disengaged from our feelings?


SANDRA: Is it a case-by-case thing?

ELIAS: Yes. And I would express that most individuals don’t know what that experience is. (Group chatter)

SANDRA: Is it a long time experience or a short time experience? Or it doesn’t have anything to do with that? In other words, certain—

ELIAS: Both.

SANDRA: — Far Eastern techniques bring you to a place where you experience it, other people have it spontaneously. If they’re fearful or something, let’s say, they drop into a… whatever. So, I’m asking is it time-related? Is it like you stay there?

ELIAS: You could.

SANDRA: Oh. Okay. So, it’s not having anything to do with that.

ELIAS: No. No.

SANDRA: Is it a desirable place to be? Like is it expansive, in terms of perception that we’re talking about today? Like once you have that experience, whether it’s spontaneous or not, you have the experience of not being connected to your emotions and you go through the terror of it and you come out of it, it’s experience. Is it expansive? Or desirable?

ELIAS: It could be classified as that, in the respect that any new experience expands you.

SANDRA: This person felt it was good.

ELIAS: And that would be a matter of perception.

SANDRA: Perception. Got it. All right.

ELIAS: That would be that individual’s evaluation and how they perceived the experience. Some individuals would express that it is not beneficial at all, that it is terrifying and that they wished they didn’t do it.

SANDRA: So that’s what death is like for all of us, the ultimate like “Oh, here we go!”…?

ELIAS: Actually, no.


ELIAS: Because when you die, you don’t do that. You don’t move into a void. You move into—

SANDRA: Well, I understand that, but I meant isn’t dying or disengaging—

ANN: Wait a minute! What do we move into? (Group chatter) It’s a cliff-hanger.

ELIAS: You move into blinking into nonphysical, but you are continuing to create imagery of physical reality.

SANDRA: But isn’t the experience of death a perception also, in terms of what we’re talking about? Like you get sick maybe, you’re in a hospital, you have tubes in you, you know, whatever. Isn’t that partly perceptual?

ELIAS: It is very much perception.

ANN: When we die, do we still have perception?

ELIAS: Yes. For a time framework. Yes.

ANN: Oh, FOR a time framework. Because you don’t have perception anymore, right?

ELIAS: Correct. Once you move into nonphysical transition, once you choose that, then you shed the objective awareness, you shed all of the beliefs associated with the reality that you disengaged from, and you shed perception.

ANN: Sounds kind of like a bummer, Elias. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Many individuals choose to continue with the objective imagery for quite some time (chuckles), but eventually they move into nonphysical transition, and then you choose in other capacities. You choose other experiences, many of which we will never engage conversation about because you will never understand in physical focus.

ANN: It’s hard enough understanding perception, and that’s what makes it physical.

ELIAS: I would agree. I would agree. Yes.

BRIGITT: Can we ask about Steve Lord? We mostly knew him. What he’s doing, Steve Lord? Last we chatted, he said he was seeing the holes.


BRIGITT: And is he still creating imagery?


BRIGITT: He’s still there?



SANDRA: Did Polly pass through here today?


SANDRA: Mary’s dog, Polly. Was the energy here of Polly today?


SANDRA: Okay. Because I saw a little puppy going around here just checking—

LYNDA: Polly was here today?


SANDRA: And was Togi here at all today?



ANN: Is he still here?


ANN: Oh, interesting.

ELIAS: [To John] Yes?

JOHN: Could you define science? I mean, we’re using the word, and…

ELIAS: Science is the exploration of— (Group chatter and laughter) It is the exploration of what is possible and the exploration of – I would say what they want it to be –everything.

JOHN: So, it’s not the method. You can look back maybe three hundred years, right, and you can say that’s the scientific method and that’s what we call science, but your science is not that science?

ELIAS: Science is ever-changing in its methods. It evolves as much as anything else evolves. And therefore, I would say that the methods don’t necessarily define science as one thing. I would say that science has been part of your reality and your explorations for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. They merely are not defining it with that word, but in the actions of science, I would express that it has been a part of your explorations and your fascinations for most of your existence.

JOHN: So philosophy, philosophic inquiry, even the things, this kind of philosophy that underpins religion, you would classify as science?

ELIAS: Also is very connected with science, yes.

ANN: Can I ask, when the science wave is underway and stuff—and you are always saying the scientists are missing the consciousness perception piece—is it just because they get a result? Is the thing that’s being missed is there’s really no one—like you can do a scientific experiment forever and ever and then someone changes their perception the next day and then it’s a different thing. So, it’s almost like you can’t ever really nail it down as far as—

ELIAS: What is quantum?

JOHN: What is quantum?

ELIAS: What is quantifying?

JOHN: To count, right? To enumerate. To—

ELIAS: Measure.

JOHN: Measure, yeah.

ELIAS: And how can you quantify if you haven’t got something you can measure? But science wants to quantify.

ANN: Okay. So—

JOHN: But everything can be quantified, right?

ELIAS: Everything—

JOHN: Approximately.

ELIAS: — could be quantified. Can it? (Group chatter) Can you measure consciousness?

JOHN: Maybe. (Group laughter) You can approximate it. You were talking about artificial intelligence in the other session, right? Which—

ELIAS: I was.

JOHN: Which is what? Which is mathematics, right? Underlyingly. I mean it’s quantum. It’s quantifiable.

ELIAS: It is. It is. But when that alternative reality and intelligence reaches a point of being sentient, then how do you quantify that?

JOHN: I’ll worry about that when we get to it. (Group laughter and chatter)

ELIAS: That is the point, is that science is and has been moving in the direction of very much desperately wanting to quantify everything, and everything can’t necessarily be quantified. That doesn’t mean it isn’t real, and it doesn’t mean that it can’t be defined or identified—

JOHN: Or described.

ELIAS: It can’t necessarily be measured. And that is the difference. They want everything to be quantified. They want everything to be a thing. You have to have a thing to quantify it. You cannot quantify something that isn’t a thing. You can quantify the thing that does an action, but you can’t quantify the action without the thing. Consciousness is the action without the thing. Therefore, you can’t measure what that is without the thing.

In this, that is the problem. You can’t measure perception, because it isn’t a thing. You can measure what it does, but you can’t measure what it IS because it isn’t a thing.

JOHN: That is fair enough.

ELIAS: Therefore, this is the gap, that they are attempting to quantify everything but you can’t quantify everything, because everything isn’t a thing.

JOHN: Yeah.

ANN: So how will science change when they realize we can’t quantify everything?

LYNDA: I was just going to ask that question. What will happen?

ELIAS: They will accept that everything can’t be quantified, and they will change their design or method of mathematics, that mathematics can be included to be expressing in relation to consciousness and even perception, but not in the form that it is being expressed now; it has to include imagination. (Group chatter)

Therefore, when they catch up to Einstein, then they will be incorporating a closer expression.

ANN: Is there a human being alive today that understands what Einstein understood, to the capacity?

ELIAS: No. Not yet. But there are humans that are moving very close.

ANN: Is Elon Musk one of them?

ELIAS: Not yet. (Laughs)

JOHN: His tweets tell otherwise. (Elias laughs heartily)

BRIGITT: Can I ask a question, Elias?


BRIGITT: A black hole is just a lack of light, right? It is…

ELIAS: It is energy.

BRIGITT: It is energy, but there’s no light.

ELIAS: Correct.

BRIGITT: So what was spewing out of that black hole? They found a picture. a couple weeks ago in the news, did you see that? They actually photographed or whatever—

ELIAS: Anything that comes OUT is manifest—

(Group chatter)

ELIAS: Correct. Correct. Is not inside. Is manifest outside.

(Group chatter)

BRIGITT: (Inaudible) the black hole, it was a trick or it was a bad photography— (Group chatter)

ELIAS: [In response to different inaudible comments] No. No. No. No. No. (Group chatter) No. No. No. (Group chatter)

JOHN: It was asymptotic, right? Like you go in and then it gets less and less and less light—

ANN: Because there's no matter in a black hole. (Group chatter) No. Ever. There is no matter. (Group chatter and laughter)

ELIAS: No. Outside of it, it emerges. (Group chatter)

BRIGITT: It emerged outside the black. It didn’t come from the black hole. It in close proximity. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: (Inaudible) It IS an expression of energy—

ANN: Okay. John wants to tell you what a black hole is.

ELIAS: Yes? (Group chatter and laughter) Yes?

JOHN H.: Well, my understanding of a black hole is like a single point of so much mass that light can’t actually escape. And so, you take this table. It’s mostly just empty space. And a black hole is where everything is so dense and contracted to itself that it’s massive energy.

ELIAS: That is the speculation. That is not actually accurate. (Group chatter)

ANN: A black hole is complete absence of matter.


ANN: And light. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: Yes. (Group laughter) But it IS a tremendous concentration of energy. This is what you term to be anti-matter. (Group chatter)

ANN: What is anti-matter?

ELIAS: Which is not matter. It is not a density of matter. It is tremendous density of energy, that the energy is configured in such tremendous density, such tremendous strength that it creates almost a vacuum. But there is no matter. There is no substance. There is no manifestation in a black hole. (Group chatter) It would be I would not say impossible, but it would be tremendously difficult to maneuver through a black hole. It definitely would not be a tunnel. Because the energy is so dense, there is no passage.

JOHN: So, what’s the function of it? Of a black hole?

ELIAS: And that is for you to discover. (Group chatter)

JOHN: I had a similar question. What is… you’ve talked about, early on, flying, going faster than the speed of light, whatever that means. But given what you’ve said today, what does that even mean? It’s sort of a meaningless…

ELIAS: In what capacity?

JOHN: Moving faster than light is a meaningless phrase because—

ELIAS: Not necessarily, because that affects time.

ANN: Can you go backwards, really?

ELIAS: You can. Yes.

SANDRA: And isn’t a thought faster than light? I mean, I think I’m in Mars, I’m there.

ELIAS: Yes. It can be. It isn’t automatically, but it can be. Yes.

SANDRA: So faster than light, and we do it all the time.


JOHN: That’s not teleportation—


JOHN: That’s faster than light.

ELIAS: But yes, you can do that also. And that that would be also an action that you could incorporate that would be faster than light. (Group chatter) But it doesn’t necessarily always mean that synonymously, but it can be. Yes. Yes. (Group chatter)

Very well, my friends. You have much to be discussing (group chatter and applause), and much to be practicing with each other and with yourselves.

And I shall be watching, observing (group laughter) and encouraging with all of you along your journeys.

GROUP: Thank you. (Group cheering and applause)

ANN: I was going to say this was such a small gathering because this was such cutting-edge material only we could understand, but now— (Group laughter and applause)

ELIAS: No. (Group laughter and chatter)

ANN: I take it all back. (Group laughter and chatter)

ELIAS: And I will say that you are my favorites. (Group cheering, applause and laughter) (See Note 2)

LYNDA: (To Ann) You got your wish, sister. You created your reality really good there. (Group laughter and chatter)

ELIAS: And the rest are my favorites also. (Group chatter)

ANN: (To Bonnie) Would you edit that part out?

BONNIE: No. (Group laughter) I will edit some parts out all right, but not that one. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: I express tremendous lovingness to all of you. I express an encouragement to you all and that you are all wondrous, wondrous beings.

GROUP: Thank you. Thank you.

ELIAS: Congratulations in all that you are accomplishing. Credit yourselves more. (Chuckles) And I shall be anticipating our next meeting with all of you. In wondrous lovingness and dear friendship, au revoir.

GROUP: Au revoir. Au revoir, Elias. (Applause)

(Elias departs after 1 hour and 42 minutes. Total session time was 2 hours and 57 minutes)

Note 1: This probably refers to Session 122. Partial excerpt: "I express to you that you may be manipulating within your clarity, for what you have experienced presently within this exercise is only noticing. As your week progresses and you are incorporating this exercise, you may attempt to manipulate these senses. Allow the clarity of your hearing, and then intentionally turn it off. Allow the clarity of your sense of smell, and then disengage. Allow yourselves the opportunity to view your own ability to manipulate your own consciousness and its functions; for in this, you may much more easily recognize how to be manipulating when encountering different events within alternate focuses."

Note 2: Elias is referring to a discussion at a group dinner in a restaurant the night before the session, concerning explanations for the smaller number of participants attending this session compared to other group sessions. One interpretation which caused great laughter was that this smaller group were in fact Elias’ favorites.