When a zimmun (rabbotai nevarech, etc.) is done, I have heard that the first three paragraphs should be said aloud by the leader.

(That'd be:

Baruch Ata Adoshem Hazan Et Haolam......Baruch Ata Adoshem Hazan Et Hakol

Nodeh Lecha Adoshem.. bchol ayt uhvechol shahah

VeAl Hakol....Baruch Ata Adoshem Al Haaretz VeAl Hamazon.


I am wondering if just the end of the first and third have to be said aloud? I wonder this as the first and third end in actual brachot.

What is the rule for what has to be said aloud?

I notice there are other brachot after that though (e.g. UhVenai yerushalayim....Baruch ata adoshem bonai verachamav yerushalayim amayn) and I haven't seen that said aloud, whereas with the harachamans some do say them aloud.

What is the rule?

Are there differences between ashkenazim and sephardim in this regard? Apparently, sephardim say a bit more aloud like harachamans, but I'd like confirmation of this and preferably a source.

  • Incidentally, see this question regarding using "Adoshem." – Fred Mar 24 '14 at 2:21
  • @Fred what do you suggest? baruch ata hashem hashem melech haolam. And instead of HaEl HaKadosh. Ha Hashem HaKadosh? I don't think there's a good alternative. And what does that hebrew sentence of Taz translate to? – barlop Mar 24 '14 at 8:41
  • "We can further learn from that which we have mentioned here that, in a place where we do not want to mention the name of adnus (i.e. 'Adonai'), one should say 'HaShem,' unlike that which the masses say 'AdoShem,' for that is not a way of respect to the One Above. Rather, one should follow the language of the tanna (Yoma 4:2): 'HaShem.'" The Taz is discussing alternatives to substituting the name of adnus in the place of the Tetragrammaton. Seemingly, "HaShem" would not be an appropriate substitute for names other than the Tetragrammaton. – Fred Mar 24 '14 at 16:26
  • @Fred ok so the tetragrammaton is covered "Hashem". What about Elohainu? and El? – barlop Mar 24 '14 at 19:15

When there is a Zimmun, what is supposed to happen is the leader recites the entire Bentching aloud on the group's behalf and everyone else listens with the intent to fulfill their obligation and replies Amen at the relevant places.

If one is unsure of his ability to pay attention to the leader the whole time (this is common), he should recite in an undertone along with the leader but be careful to get a few words ahead of the leader at points where an Amen should be said in order that the listener can still respond Amen to the leader. (Shulchan Aruch OC 183:7)

Some (Magen Avraham ad loc. and endorsed by Mishna Berura and Aruch haShulchan) hold that for Ashkenazim the above trick (reciting along in an undertone) only works beginning after haZan et haKol because for Ashkenazim until that point is still considered the essential part of Zimmun (cf. Rama OC 200). (For the curious, Friday night Kiddush and the first blessing of Bentching have almost the exact same number of words to focus through.)

  • Here is Shulchan Aruch OC 183:7 with Mishneh Berurah. pastebin.com/raw.php?i=MYj4VgK1 – barlop Mar 23 '14 at 22:07
  • @barlop The original Hebrew is linked to in my post. Whose translation is that? – Double AA Mar 23 '14 at 22:13
  • davka program -mishneh brurah, part of their judaic classics collection, if I do help..about it says davka corporation and feldheim publishers. it has i.imgur.com/obewGT6.png so, has english shulchan aruch OC (not the rest of the shulchan aruch), and english mishneh brurah – barlop Mar 23 '14 at 22:19

There are many different practices on this.

The Vilna Gaon's practice was to have one person bench out loud for everyone -- presumably until "al Yechasrenu"?

After learning the halachos of benching in a sefer (which didn't address this), my teacher said "okay, now the way I was taught in yeshiva is that the mezamen should bench the first paragraph out loud."

  • thanks btw re vilna gaon. In the uk at least, our benching ends in a last paragraph of yuhru et adoshem kee tov.....hamevarech et amoh yisrael bashalom. So, they continue past al yechasraynu, i think after al yechasraynu is baruch ata adoshem elokaynu melech haolam hakel avinu malkaynu adiraynu boreinu goalaynu... – barlop Mar 23 '14 at 12:51
  • source?????????? – Shmuel Brin Mar 23 '14 at 16:45
  • Such was the Vilna Gaon's practice....along with Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Yehuda haNasi, Rava, Abaye, Rav Ashi, the Rif, the Rambam, the Ramban (among others)... – Double AA Mar 23 '14 at 17:56
  • @DoubleAA yes. A source that it was the Gra's practice. – Shmuel Brin Mar 23 '14 at 20:59
  • @ShmuelBrin You mean aside from "Duh!"? I suppose you could consider the last Beiur Hagra to OC 195 if you want. – Double AA Mar 23 '14 at 21:17

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