How can you tell if a guy is manipulating you or if you’re just overthinking the matter?

AskWomen Original (deleted)
Pastrami-on-Rye 124 2019-02-10 16:56:08
MissAnthropoid 261 1h10m

If you're asking yourself this question and you don't ask it with every person you meet, then something must be "off" about this guy. Trust your gut.

Pastrami-on-Rye 84 1h21m

Dang this was extremely helpful, and not just for my current situation. I’ve rarely wondered this before about other people. I’ll definitely remember this for the future. Thank you so much for the advice!

Wildernessinabox 24 6h52m

Be extra careful when you start to feel you are overthinking things when it comes to manipulation, its a very common sign of gaslighting.

Hippotheh 3 8h38m

Paranoia can cause one to think everyone is out to get them. It's a sign of schizophrenia, but also a side effect of some drugs and other things.

But If you dont have one of these^ asking yourself the question means you are not overthinking things.

Ask the manipulator (calmly and kindly) if they realize they are doing this. It is possible they arent aware and do not mean to be. Their reaction to asking will tell you everything you need to know.

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 12h21m

I don’t have paranoia or schizophrenia and I’m not on any medications and I definitely never think everyone is out to get me.

I asked him and he said he wasn’t manipulating me. I told him that I felt he was for reasons x, y, and z but he said that I’m wrong. Had no idea what to say after that.

pamplemouss 2 9h49m

Yeah, if you thought this of someone OFTEN, I would say probably get into counseling to figure out why. If it's only happened a couple times, trust your gut.

Pastrami-on-Rye 3 12h3m

I’ve only thought this about one other person before and I was correct in that instance. I don’t think I’m a paranoid person so I’ve been a bit confused lately about why I’ve been feeling this way. I confronted this current guy and told him that I think he’s manipulating me and he said “I’m not” and tbh I’m not sure what I was expecting him to say but I had nothing to follow that up haha. I’m still trusting my gut here though.

pamplemouss 2 12h19m

Def go with the gut.

Are there behaviors of his, or things you find yourself doing, that are setting off alarms for you? (Even if you can’t, still trust your gut!)

Pastrami-on-Rye 2 12h27m

Yeah he’s told me stories of manipulating people for months just to get revenge for something bad that they had done to him. He also has some anger issues so I usually just sit quietly and don’t look at him or speak when he gets into those moods. He doesn’t attack people, he just screams or cusses a lot or claps his hands together really hard, but it’s still spooky.

pamplemouss 1 1d2h29m

Geez, yeah, he sounds awful. "Doesn't physically attack people" is a damn low bar.

cwaabaa 5 10h4m

From the age of about 5, I had an “off” feeling about two of my uncles. Twin brothers. I was a shy kid and thought it was my fault for feeling weird. Specifically at their respective weddings, I had a sense of generalised stress. 17 years later, one is (somehow) on parole after having sex with his two stepdaughters, starting on the honeymoon. His twin said he didn’t understand why his brother ended up in prison for this: “he didn’t do anything that bad. It’s not like he killed someone!” This dude has a mail-order bride. Freaking listen to gut feelings! It’s only been the last couple of years that I’ve really been paying attention, but I cannot believe how accurate they are. You may not be able to articulate why you feel the way you do, but your brain is remarkably good at piecing together seemingly innocuous observations and detecting a potential threat.

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 12h35m

What the.... that is horrifying. I’ll keep this in mind. I wouldn’t feel this discomfort for no reason.

not_doing_that 66 33m

If you’re asking a bunch of strangers on the internet if you can trust a dude, you can’t trust that dude

_liloooooo_ 64 19m

You're being manipulated if you find yourself doing things you actually didn't want to do in the first place.

pamplemouss 7 9h49m

Yeah, but the thing with *good* manipulators, is sometimes you feel like you did wanna do the thing, but the thing is out of character. But then you question if it's really out of character or you're just 'evolving,' or you 'never really knew yourself before.' Good manipulators fuck with your head.

_liloooooo_ 1 13h38m

True and that's the scary thing.

dinnerbreakfastfood 51 2h52m

You may wanna look out for him pushing your personal boundaries. This isn’t always as obvious as you think! If you find yourself feeling guilty often, constantly questioning your decision making, walking on eggshells, or if he doesn’t accept/acknowledge/validate your feelings.

Pastrami-on-Rye 10 3h28m

Thanks for pointing this out! This is pretty different from what everyone else has been saying and I appreciate your input. I’ll pay attention to this!

dinnerbreakfastfood 2 9h26m

Anytime, I wish you all the best!

zenitramivel 2 3h39m

Understanding and validating your feelings is big.

localgyro 32 2m

It all comes down to if you have a reason to trust him. Does what he's saying match up with what seems to be true from other sources (including your own judgement)?

Pastrami-on-Rye 23 27m

I trust him but he definitely has a past of manipulating people. He even brags sometimes that one of his greatest strengths is getting people to do something that he wants them to do by making them think they’re doing it by their own free will. So sometimes I can’t tell if he’s doing that to me or if I’m just being dumb and trying to think too hard.

bitchy_butch 80 41m

If someone brags that they're good at manipulating people, it's a safe bet that they're manipulating you too. You have no reason to trust that you're the one special person he'd never do that to.

dinnerbreakfastfood 16 2h56m

This. 100%. The fact that this is something he brags about is concerning. Even if, in a perfect world, he isn’t manipulating YOU, him bragging about doing it to others is a red flag.

Pastrami-on-Rye 10 53m

That’s true... this is so embarrassing lol.

bitchy_butch 32 1h0m

Sorry, I didn't mean to embarrass you! Unfortunately, making people feel special is one thing that manipulators are very good at. It's a tactic some people use: they "warn" you that they're actually terrible, but then they make you feel so special that you feel like you're the exception, and then when it turns out you're not the exception they try to excuse themselves by saying they warned you they were like this.

Pastrami-on-Rye 8 1h16m

No you’re fine! I just hadn’t really put much thought into what you had said even though it seems like such an obvious thing to consider.

Do you think it would be playing into his hands if I try to just meet him half way on what he wants from me? I feel bad to just turn him down when he says he needs help, but when he starts saying “if you were in this situation, you know I’d help you,” and I think like, “darn he probably would help me, maybe I’m just being selfish?” He just expects me to do certain things to return the favor of him doing something, but if I do something first, he doesn’t feel that he has to do anything for me (which I don’t expect him to) but he says that what I did wasn’t the same as what he did so he doesn’t need to return any favors.

bitchy_butch 29 2h7m

I think someone who insists that any favors he does must be repaid tit-for-tat, but that any favors you do are just favors, is not someone who is interested in a fair and equal relationship with you.

Pastrami-on-Rye 17 2h27m

Right! The act of just writing this down helped me see how ridiculous it is, but hearing other people’s opinions really confirms it all for me. Thank you for the help!

Wildernessinabox 7 6h54m

Doing nice things for people isn't a form of currency, just remember that. Normal people don't think that way.

Ineedafantasy 13 4h21m

Everything you said here is red flag material.


This is 101 of manipulation, I would say the guy is even not that great a manipulator, even though he clearly wants to be.

Pastrami-on-Rye 6 4h33m

That statement was definitely what got me thinking about this. I’m not really used to people trying to manipulate me so I think that’s why I was so confused as to whether or not it was just in my head. But I’m definitely feeling more confident as more people say what they’re seeing!

jay-eye-elle-elle- 5 6h59m

I had an ex-boyfriend like this. He thought the nice things he would do for me, should count as much as the nice things that I actually did for him. I don’t know if it’s “manipulative” per se, as much as it’s just a version of “judging yourself by your intention but judging others by their actions.”

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 11h33m

I’ve never heard this one before. That’s absolute nonsense.

MsTponderwoman 10 4h37m

My ex laid the groundwork for massive gaslighting by regularly disclosing how brilliant and adept he is at getting people to do things he wants by making them think it’s of their own volition.

Common decency and respect for others usually deters someone from sharing their perceived sense of being able to persuade or convince others...that he openly boasts about it with you should give you pause about his intentions with you.

EDIT: I just realized he’s a friend and not your partner. In my book, friends get less pretty, “stop your bs with me” lines! 😁

Pastrami-on-Rye 2 4h57m

Oh God that’s obnoxious! I guess it’s interesting when people can use that technique to trick someone who is doing them wrong, but bragging about being able to manipulate anybody like that just for the sake of doing it? It’s so shocking.

And no, he’s definitely not my partner! I hope I would never goob that badly and date someone who tries to guilt or trick me into doing things. But I’ve definitely gotta pay closer attention to people’s behavior with me from now on so I don’t internalize manipulation as me being dumb.

MavisMadrid 7 2h49m

Why would you want to be with someone who brags about taking advantage of vulnerable or innocent people? He sounds very childish and unattractive.

I feel like the fact that you are asking the question means that your intuition is waving red flags at you.

Pastrami-on-Rye 5 3h26m

Haha, he’s just my roommate and we’re not together or anything, but his influence on me has been a bit negative lately and I haven’t been sure if it was him or me who has been in the wrong. I’m moving out around May, so I won’t have to worry about this anymore after that. But you do make a very good point. A lot of people have been telling me to trust my gut and it’s making sense to me. I’ll definitely keep reminding myself to trust my intuition when I feel like he’s trying to manipulate me.

MavisMadrid 2 3h40m

Cool. Best of luck.

localgyro 5 48m

Ask him why you should trust him, when he says stuff like that. Because honestly, I don't know that I'd ever be able to trust or date a guy who bragged about that.

happy_sleepy 4 6h25m

My ex used to brag about that, too. And his "charisma" ..... I gtfo there a couple years ago

kgberton 3 5h34m

Wow, gross.

dumhuvud 16 4m

There are some common signs of manipulation, like gaslighting. If you recognize him doing such things, then he is probably manipulating you.

Pastrami-on-Rye 7 34m

How do you know if it’s gaslighting? How can I tell the difference between that or if it’s just me being not as smart as him?

dumhuvud 14 36m


You not being as smart as him? Who claims such things? You or him?

Pastrami-on-Rye 8 47m

Oh wow, thank you for the link! I think his actions aren’t as showy as the ones they described though. He’s more of a “I did Thing A so now you have to do something for me” and if I do Thing A he says that it was “JUST Thing A” and that he does more than me so he doesn’t need to do anything for me. Which I don’t expect anything in return but I can’t tell if what he’s doing is manipulation or if I’m actually not doing as much as he does and I just think that I am. I don’t want to be like “He’s making me question myself so it’s clearly gaslighting” if I’m actually the one who is wrong.

And it’s just my opinion that I’m not as smart, not his!

dumhuvud 12 52m

There are other things than gaslighting too, like emotional manipulation: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201510/14-signs-psychological-and-emotional-manipulation

Someone can be manipulating in many different ways.

I think he sounds manipulative though, only doing things in order to demand something from you, and making you question yourself. Also, if you have to ask, then it's probably your gut telling you it is like that.

Pastrami-on-Rye 3 1h0m

Oh gosh. Thank you for sharing this with me. I really appreciate your help!

dumhuvud 11 1h32m

No worries, I've lived with manipulate men so I know the feeling. The main thing is to always trust yourself and your gut. If you feel like you have to ask others about his behaviour, it means you've already noticed something is off and need confirmation from others to make sure that you aren't wrong, because he is probably telling you you are wrong. That is fine, sometimes we need others to point out things we ourselves might be trying to excuse, mainly because we've been manipulated into another way of thinking.

Pastrami-on-Rye 7 2h9m

Thank you so much. I wouldn’t have seen this if you hadn’t explained it. I wasn’t sure how much it would help to post this question on Reddit, but everyone’s actually been super helpful. Also, I’ll only be living with this guy for a few more months until this school semester ends around May, so luckily I’m not stuck with him!

dumhuvud 2 2h11m

Yeah, there's tons of helpful women here, so it's always great to post here. :)

[deleted] 1 2h17m


dumhuvud 9 3h17m

For me, I needed to constantly remind myself that decent people don't do the bad things those exes did. When I thought "Aw, he might actually be sorry." I also reminded myself that "He wouldn't have to be sorry if he never was a douche in the first place, it's not hard, I am never a douche. Other people are never douches. Why is he making such an effort to be a douche? Because he is a douche."

It also helped a lot to talk to other people about it, especially women my own age, because they could tell me things like "Dude, that's not normal behaviour." when I was too deep into it to see it.

[deleted] 2 3h46m


PurpleWeasel 4 1h3m

Also, in general, if he's doing something you didn't ask him to do to try to force you to feel obligated to him, that's classic manipulation.

[deleted] 6 1h55m

I just trust my gut. If I have a funny feeling, like little invisible hands pushing me around, then I know I'm being manipulated to some degree. You say he has a past and brags about it. That would be enough for me! I'd get AWAY from him.

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 2h20m

Yes this is very true! I just wasn’t sure if it was only in my head or if it was actual manipulation. But going off of the advice I’ve gotten so far, it seems to be manipulation. I live with him right now so I can’t just get away, but we aren’t dating or anything. He’s just my roommate until around May. Until then I’ll just try to hold my ground more and remind myself of how he is.

zenitramivel 6 3h32m

The trick is always treat others as you want to be treated but also never let anyone treat you any different than you would treat them

Example: if you would never get someone’s card and Order a pizza with out their permission. Don’t let anyone do it to you or anyone around you

If you would not manipulate people then don’t hang out with people who do.

Pastrami-on-Rye 2 4h37m

Ooh this is a good one. I’ll definitely keep this in mind! Thank you!

zenitramivel 3 4h38m

I just got out of 5 year one way relationshi. It’s a tough call.

Pastrami-on-Rye 2 5h1m

Whoa, 5 years? I’m glad you’re out of that! But that must’ve been so stressful.

zenitramivel 3 5h4m

It’s all good now. Karma always pays out. IMO.

sodadrinkin4 4 1h55m

The feeling of being uncomfortable. If it feels wrong to you, don't feel like you need to please him.

AlphaBaymax 4 7h21m

As a guy, it's intention. If a guy's intention for you to to something ends up being selfish in nature at the expense of your comfort then it is manipulation.

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 11h56m

Makes sense! Thank you for your input!

Curia-DD 3 54m

I ask myself the same thing all the time.

QueenWhitethorn 3 5h6m

Actions > Words. Always!

Gaslighting is real too, so whenever someone says that you're overthinking it and not to worry about it then blows it off, but doesn't take the time to acknowledge it and understand your feelings and thoughts, it's a red flag.

Potchari 3 7h6m

Ask your friends! Your closest friends. I bet one of them is noticing and is keeping quiet about it.

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 11h40m

Thanks for the advice!

AdriBlossom 3 7h9m

As someone who recently left a highly manipulative and gaslit situation and who just read your comments .... my gut says "run" for you.

If something is off early, it only gets harder over time.

Some light examples: someone who is always on their phone when you just started dating. If they're distracted during the "we shouldn't be able to keep our hands off each other" phase, will it get better when that phase passes? Please feel free to sub "on phone" with whatever applies.

For the manipulation, examples:

"I took care of X when you let me borrow X so now I'm entitled to use X more / whenever I want." Where X is something that is yours.

Another example: I went on a double date once with my then SO's friend and his bf. I watched, cringing, while the friend would ask questions he knew the bf didn't know, and "light heartedly make fun" of the bf for not knowing whatever it was. The second or third time this happened, I said "Knock it the fuck off." "Excuse me?" "Knock. it. the. fuck. off. I don't know what you think you're doing, but it's gross to watch." They broke up that week, and I've never been happier for someone I didn't know before (I had never met either of them prior).

People are messed up. If your gut is sending red flags and alarms before you're emotionally invested, before you share a life and potentially assets, finances, family, and whatever else: leave. In all likelihood your gut will continue to send up emergency flares and the more things you share, the more things you'll miss / have to deal with when you get out later.

I realize that this got longer than I intended. I just don't want to see anyone else fall into Oz / Wonderland.

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 11h48m

Wow thank you for this! He’s just my roommate and we aren’t dating or anything and I’ll be moving out around May, so I just have to learn to deal with this until then. But I think it’s probably a good learning experience in the very least. Now I know the signs of a manipulative person and hopefully I can make wiser choices in choosing the people that I spend time with in the future.

avocado__dip 2 2h12m

Trust your gut.

Invisibaelia 2 7h41m

If you feel like you can't tell the people who love you about what's been going on

Pastrami-on-Rye 2 11h57m

I told my family today because I was piiiissseddd.

juliekablooie 2 8h4m

Look into gaslighting manipulation, if you haven't already. The jist of it is that the manipulator will warp your reality so you can't trust yourself, or your memories.

This includes the phrase "you're being too sensitive, you're overreacting", if you ever try to discuss anything that upsets you. Also outright lying about what they said or did, making you question if you're going crazy.

Like others have said, if you're only wondering about this for only one person, that's a pretty big sign. Best case scenario they don't realize they're being manipulative. Set firm boundaries, and the instant they break them (which could seriously be as soon as the next sentence they speak), then break contact and distance yourself immediately.

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 12h12m

Right! Thank you for this. Gaslighting was a new word for me today. But I feel like he knows what he’s doing because he has come to me before saying he felt bad because he had manipulated someone in some way. He’s also told me a stories of the stuff he’s gone through just to get back at someone for having wronged him in the past. It’s crazy stuff. I can’t really distance myself from him until May because he’s my roommate lol but I will keep your advice in mind!

juliekablooie 2 12h26m

Oh my gosh that just sounds like an exhausting person to be around. I'm sorry you have to live with him for so long! Hopefully all these replies will give you an arsenal of tools to keep him from getting in your head <3

Pastrami-on-Rye 2 12h32m

Yes everyone has been so helpful and I appreciate all of the advice! I actually feel like my confidence has boosted so much today from these replies, because earlier today I thought I was just overthinking the issue and that I was dumb. I think I’m usually pretty patient with him and I ignore a lot of his bad behaviors, but lately I’ve been getting really sick of it haha. But it’s just a few short months left. I’ve got this!

Rini365 2 11h20m

This sounds like gaslighting tbh. This person has turned your brain around so you look to blame yourself instead of them. That way they can still be in control. I’ve been through this a couple times and could finally see what was being done to me.

Pastrami-on-Rye 1 11h51m

This is such a crazy concept to me. A lot of people have been saying that it seems to be gaslighting. I’ve just been reminding myself of what everyone has said all day, that I’m not in the wrong here.

Rini365 2 11h53m

You can get through it. It took me a while to even figure out that something like this was happening to me. And it takes a lot to get past it mentally because if this is what is happening then he has trained your brain to think differently. It’s a habit. You just need to break it. Good luck friend!

Pastrami-on-Rye 2 12h14m

Thank you for the encouragement! :) I’ll remember this.

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mallykv -1 9h5m

Depends on the his hot: my hot ratio.

10:1 ... it’s fine

2:10 ... it’s not fine.

pamplemouss 3 9h51m