

October 24, 2007



Discussion Topic: Students Launch Empty Holster Protest

Evanpeck01From The Columbus Dispatch:





Check out the full story and tell us your reaction.



Good points Mike - I think.

You point out one state where you say you need a ccw.

OK - this thread is about toting on campus - nothing about minority ridden Fla.

So then - besides Columbine and VT,
Name another school shooting that was nearly as bad.

I ain't saying for anyone not to protect themselves - there is a difference from thinking concealed weapons are needed in some instances or some areas of the world, and advocating the advance of firearms in the hands of young people at school.

Stay on topic.


Also Mike, as many of our counterparts here are quick to correctly point out, there are plenty of freaking gun laws on the books...

They just need to be enforced properly.


I AM on topic.....and if you will notice in my previous post....i mention laws that DO NOT work......or are NOT enforced.

I point out FL (or any other state or municipality for that matter)that when you arm law abiding citizens (last i checked 18 y/o students ARE citizens)violent crime diminishes, typically exponetially.

My point in brief is this....if you want to stop school shootings (on college campuses) arm the student body. (those that choose to) At grade school level allow teachers to carry in class rooms (those that choose to and take additional training)

Twas an attempted shooting at the law school just up the road from VT (the name eludes me at the moment...my "oldtimers" is acting up....mayhaps a nice person reading could help out with the name) well, it didnt work considering a couple of students drew their LEGALY concealed handguns and dropped the fool in his tracks...........too bad for him.


One other odd thought....isnt VT an ROTC school?!....OH, i guess we shouldnt arm our (soon to be) military officers. That wouldnt be "civilized" would it?


Good point on extra training Mike.

I would say let the students go through some form of crisis mgmt. seminar, or a course in something similar to blet's for law enforcement and then perhaps we could think they will be more prepared to use their guns effectively in a terrible situation.

And of course there will be times when the bad guy would be stopped, and rightly so!

But I think, you know as well as I do, that those times would recieve far less attention than the times when the students erred in judgement, and innocent people were killed by friendly fire. That is what I am really worried about.

Not one to deny anyone the right to protect themselves my friend, but also not quite ready to jump on the bandwagon of gun toting students becoming the norm.

My 2cts.



I TOTALLY agree with your sentiments that if a scumbag be stopped by a legally concealed handgun on campus, the mainstream media would say exactly NOTHING about it. As was the case with the law school shooting whos name STILL eludes me. Lets forget "unbiased" reporting of the facts.

Being the father of a 17 y/o son completely understand your reservations with folk that young "packing"

That being said, on the flip side of the same coin, I would MUCH prefer my son have my 1911 (a weapon he is getting to weild better than I) in his hand as opposed to having to bury him, or deal with the trauma of seeing dear friends killed in such a violent and mindless manner.

One more point (slightly off topic) In the state in which we reside (IN) 18 is the legal age to apply for and recieve your CCW permit. Not alot of violent crime here coming from our 18, 19, 20 year olds legally packing.


If those numbers are correct Mike...

You make a good another great point. Just remember, just as easily as your son may be able to save his or another's life if he had a gun, he could accidently take one in a school crisis scenario as well.

Really, it is a situational thing that has no correct answer. And neither option is full-proof.

I guess I would have to end by saying what I have pretty much already said...
If the area dictates you need a gun to feel safe, or actually be safe. By all means ''pack''. But be sure, be rational and above all else, don't pull it unless you plan to use it.

I am glad we seem to understand one another a bit better as well.

Good day Mike.


I have an idea...Why don't they allow students to carry a gun on campus if they: 1. Have a completely clean record (especially no violent crimes), and a stable psychological background. 2. Go through an extensive safety training so that students aren't accidently blowing their foot off. 3. And finally, sign an agreement that they will only use that gun if their LIFE or someone elses LIFE is in danger. Not even if they are getting their @$$ kicked in a fight should they use it (unless the other person is using a weapon themselves). The seriousness and responsibility behind shooting someone should be stressed, and the consequences clearly stated. I think responsible students should be able to carry a gun, but my concern is that a student may be getting picked on and all of sudden snap and shoot someone. They may have had a clean record before.


Any rule or law that prohibits me from keeping and or bearing arms at any time is in a violation of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States Of America


I agree, no body will take my guns from me. I am a law abiding citizen, and I would never use it for the wrong reason. Do you think convicted criminals (that have been released) or people with psychological disorders should be able to carry?


Nope! I think the retrictions in place that prevent those that have sustantially greater potential for doing harm to others are warranted.


I think we are fundamentally arguing the wrong problem. I think the problem is that we have unsafe campus' where security is completely lax. There wouldn't be the need to carry on campus if student tuition money was used wisely and contributed to security. I realize every person is responsible for protecting themselves but there are others like Campus Security and Police that are paid to "Serve and Protect". It is beyond me what the use for student-paid-student serving positions like Campus Security is for when they can't even respond with due force in a timely manner to stop school shootings.


In particular to Blue OX.. In response to when you will see bullet proof jackets in school. Ask no more here it is


Bullet proof backpacks!! It is a backpack with a kevlar liner!! For your kids in school!! Banning guns must be doing a world of good because there is a need for this product!! HAHAHAHAHHA.

What the hell happened to the world I grew up in? Its a damn shame that arming competent teachers and students is a viable solution to a sick problem. Violence de-sensitisation via T.V., video games, thugs for "parents"{term used very loosely}and a seemingly uncaring public for uor constitutional rights! Just to add my 12 and 9 year old boys were on the computer yesterday and I found them watching people beating the sh#$ out of each other. Made me sick they thought it was funny. Obviously they have never taken a "whoopin" cause that aint never funny. Sorry to get off topic , trying to back up my de-sensitization of our youth.

Blue Ox

Ha! A bullet-proof backpack! That's effing brilliant! Thanks and kudos for showing this to me. Even at $175 I think it's a hell of a deal if there is a chance where it will save a child's life. Hikers too, might benefit from the extra protection, but I'm not sure how well kevlar would hold up againt a bear's claws. Perhaps we could ask Evan to field test this theory?

don mitchell



I commend these young people for standing up for what is generally an unpopular view. Most young people my niece knows wouldnt know the butt-plate from a muzzle. These are college age kids. Most of them think guns are an evil thing even though they know nothing about any of it. That dangerous behavior.

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