Difference Between Similar Terms and Objects

Difference Between Ahmadi and Qadiani

Founder of the Ahmadiyya movement.

Ahmadi vs Qadiani

Ahmadi and Qadiani are essentially different names for a same islamic movement.

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib was the founder of Ahmadi Movement.

According to the Ahmadi sect believes that all those who have read ‘Kalimah-e-Tayyebah’ are Muslims, irrespective of the sect that he or she belongs to and also even if he has not taken the pledge of Founder of Ahmadi. The Ahmadi sect believes that non-belief in Mujaddid (Promised Messiah) is a sin. Moreover, no one is thrown out of Islam and no one becomes Kafir if he has committed a sin.

Ahmadi sect has their headquarters in Pakistan.

In Islam, there is a prophecy about coming of a spiritual reformer in latter days with two titles. One is Promised Messiah and other is Mahdi.

Ahmadi Muslims believe that both titles belonged to one person, subservient to Holy Prophet Muhammad. They have their full arguments. They believe the reformer will stop use of force for religion as it was foretold.

[Non-Ahmadi Muslims are waiting for two separate men; one as Promised Messiah and second as Mahdi. Mahdi will shed blood.]

After the death of Ahmadi Promised Messiah, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (on whom be peace) in 1908, a system of Khilafat (successor-ship) started [as per prophecy of Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)].
Their head office remained in Qadian (India). Those who thought, Khilafat was not needed, they went to Lahore (then India, now in Pakistan)

Both types are called Ahmadis because they Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s.) gave the name of his Community as Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

At maximun, one can say:
1- Ahmadi Muslims (who follow Khilafat; currently Fifth Khalifah is heading the worldwide community)

2- Ahmadi Muslim (who do not believe in Khilafat, they are much lesser, they are called LAHORI GROUP)

By the way, Khilafat based Ahmadi Muslims do not call them selves as QADIANI,
as now it is slang term used as hatred by fanatics mullahs.

You can find official information at alislam.org

(Updated by one of our Ahmadi reader)

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  1. This text is completely false and misleading. Even Wikipedia can give more precive and true information on this matter.

    Ahmadi Muslims call themselves as Ahmadi Muslims because their founder Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as has gave them this name. But their opponents label them as Qadiani, referring to the city Qadian where the founder was born. For them he didn’t deserve the name Ahmad, which is a second name of the Prophet Muhammad saw. Thus they avoid calling him by his name and just say Mirza. In the same way they say Qadiani instead of Ahmadi.

    I think the writer wanted to write about the difference between Ahmadies and Lahori Ahmadies. The latter is a group that splinted from the main Ahmadi community and as they settled in Lahore first, they are called Lahori Ahmadies.

  2. Ahmadis/Qadianis are non-muslims because they don’t believe Mohammad (pbuh) as the last Prophet, and anyone who don’t believe Mohammad (pbuh) as last prophet is not a muslim..Please correct.

    • And 99% Muslims clearly declair them as non-muslim kafir.

      • And you too in that soil..
        First You gather information about Ahmadis (on net) individually…


        • Please tell me what is the reason to form this sect if everything is similar to original Islam. I hope this is the conspiracy of either Christian or Yahudi people to weaken the Islam by divide and rule.

        • Qadiyanis is the right name for these fake Muslims. These murthadhs cannot be called Ahmadia, since Ahmadia means those who follow the last and final prophet MUHAMMAD SALLALLAHU ALAIHI WASALLAM. These Qadiyanis claim themselves as peace loving Muslims. First, Qadiyanis are not Muslims and these Fakians are indulged in terrorist activities to bring bad name to ISLAM. In no instance, Islam does not spread Terrorism. These Qadiyanis are paid agents of Israel

      • AssalamuAleykum brother,

        This is unfortunately typical of our non Ahmadi Muslim brothers. You don’t read the comments which clarify your question, you simply keep posting the same allegations/queries/comments over and over. This “99%” has already been clarified in a post below but you felt that your comment would somehow bring new light into those following this discussion?

        Remember, the first commandment given to Prophet (saw) at the time of Qurans revelation was “Iqra”, which means READ!! Why do we so easily accept the rulings of the majority when the Quran is clear in its verdict, if you follow the majority, you will be among the misguided. “99%” has no meaning if the 99% are misguided. Our defense against hell fire on day of judgment will not be accepted if we say to Allah that we only believed this because of the 99%! You must ask Allah to guide you to truth! Simply following majority serves no purpose for your Iman or Deen.

        Jazak’Allah kher
        Shoaib Abaidullah

        • I don’t know if this site is run by Qadiyanis or Lahoris but I want to know why do Lahoris even consider themselves a different sect if they deny that Mirza Ghulam was a messenger?
          The main controversy is that that you people consider Mirza Ghulam a messenger (Astaghfirullah) but if Lahoris don’t consider him a messenger then why do they even associate with this Mirzayi group?

        • Shoaib, you make no sense my brother.

        • It is not the reply of my question. I would like to know the reason for formation of this separate sect.

        • I think you consider, , ahmadis as close to muslims……
          But i think ……… .. even Christians are better than ahmedis ..because they believe in right prophet ( essa a.s ) though they don’t believe in hazrat Muhammad ( s.a.w ) ……..so …correct your emaan……….that they are kafirs…….kafirs…and just kafirs………

    • Goodday friends.. I think you need to ask from Ahmadi Muslims the truth rather than writing base on assumptions.. Ahmadi Muslims believe in Prophet Muhammad (s. a. w) as Khatama nabiyyeen.. if they do not, why do they say “laila ilallah muhammadu rasulullah”.. how have they become non-Muslims?
      The only difference between Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis is the view of Jesus(a.s),his death, and the return of Mahdi, The promised Messiah.. Ahmadi have their proofs..

    • don’t just assume or say what you don’t know.. Why do Ahamadis say Lailaha ila llah Muhammadu rasulullah. to know about Ahmadis visit http://www.alislam.org read the book titled Jesus in India, and Ahmad the Guided one.. may Allah bless us

    • Why do we not find qadianies or ahmedies reading the writings of Mirza in complete and why do they bribe people to stay in their religion and they target poor and needy people and why do they help in killing muslims with zaniest

  3. zafar comment is right both sects are non muslims.

    • dear brother
      I think you got to know that there is no such differences in ahmadis/qadianis. both r the same

      my humble request is data u dont trust dis anti,waste,sites giving such differences …

      but these differences r nt said by an ahmadi brother author….

      so if u have such doubts/misbeliefs again pls c alislam.org. or contact at quest@MTA.tv. which is rahehuda. or on my mail..

  4. Ahmadis/Qadianis are not muslims,they not believe in Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).In Islam person is not muslim if he/she does not believe Muhammad(PBUH)
    Kindly correct

    • Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      Salam brothers and sisters,

      I am an Ahmadi Muslim and would like to clarify some things presumed by the author of the article.

      1- we have absolute belief and no ambiguity as to the place of our Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) as the Khatamun Nabiyyein (seal of the prophets)

      2- we do consider Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian as the Imam Mahdi, as well as the awaited Messiah (Isa Ibn Maryam (as) in the metaphorical sense))

      3- He is also valued as having attained Prophethood, albeit the Prophethood is not distinct and apart from Prophet Muhammad (saw), rather it is a reflection of that Prophethood, which has only the purpose for reviving the Muslims’ faith as taught and practiced by the Holy Prophet (saw) himself and bring the Iman back from Plaedies.

      4- The belief in a prophet coming after the holiest of all Prophets (saw) is not a belief unique to the Ahmadiyya Jam’at, it is a belief penetrating even the most devout Sunni clerics and scholars as they too are all awaiting the return of Isa (as), and when asked whether he will be a prophet upon return, all are in agreement that he will have the status of a Prophet.

      5- so our beliefs aren’t a derision from Sunni beliefs, the question is merely one of identity. since it is our belief that Hazrat Isa (as) died a natural death LONG AFTER his survival from the attempted crucifixion, the question of his return isn’t possible in literal terms, so we have accepted the return in metaphorical terms after clear manifest signs, in the person of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian.

      7- All the way from the times of Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw), the Muslims have waited for the head of the 14th century so that He (Isa as) would return, but the Muslims of today devise different techniques to obscure the faith of the layman Muslims just to answer the question of the return and why He hasn’t returned. We believe he has in the person of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian!

      I will by the grace and Leave of Allah end my clarifications here, although if anyone has any further inquiries, please do not hesitate to email me at sa9135@gmail.com and with Allah’s help, I will do the best I can to answer your questions as well as clarify any other misconceptions about our beliefs in Khatamun Nabiyyein, Isa (as), and all other necessary and relevant questions.

      I invite the reader to visit askislam.org and alislam.org as an introduction to Ahmadiyyat!

      May Allah out of infinite Mercy guide us all and bless us with his infinite Bounties!

      Jazakallau kher
      Assalmu Aleiykum Warahmat’ullahi wa barakatuhu

      Your brother,
      Shoaib Abaidullah

      • AOA,

        Just to clarify, my above comment was not to discuss the differences between Ahmadi/Qadiyanis, its purpose rather was to highlight the similarities between Sunni/Ahmadis and only in response to brother Hafiz Omairs comment that we do not believe in Khatamun Nabbiyyien.

        The original comment was posted by me on the Article named “differences between Sunni/Ahmadi”.

        I apologize for the confusio
        Jazakallhu kher

        Shoaib Abaidullah

      • Shoaib,

        Christians never call Essa (A.S) son of God directly…They say things about him as you said about mirza (holy spirit, metaphor, autaar, etc etc).

        I don’t have much knowledge about ahmadiyat neither i am an aalim but u answer me, why constitution of Pakistan declared Ahmadis non-muslims???

        • Salam

        • Dear brother Zafar,


          Thank you for your inquiry. By the grace of Allah, I will do my best to clarify the reasons why we were declared non Muslims by Pakistan and some of the other Muslim Nations.

          It must first be borne in mind that this is a direct violation of the Qruan as well as the sunna of Prophet Muhammad (saw), as the Quran is clear in It’s verdict that no person or community or even nation for that matter has the right to declare anyone or any community Non Muslim. As such, this law passed against Ahmadi Muslims is in violation of that command.

          The Quran describes a Muslim as a person who recites the shahada (la ilaha illallah Muhammad arrasulillah), performs salat (prayers) 5 times a day in the sunnah of Muhammad (saw), fasts during the month of Ramadan, gives zakat (alms giving), and performs hajj (pilgrimage). These are the conditions set forth by the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (saw). By the grace of Allah, we fulfill these requirements to the fullest and no non Ahmadi Muslim scholar will refute this truth. As such, it is incomprehensible, not just by the Ahmadi Muslims but other muslim scholars as well, why the Parliament of Palistan altered their constitution and deemed us non Muslims.

          Furthermore, the holy Prophet (saw) has given strict instructions to the Muslims that he who openly declares him or herself to be a Muslim cannot be labeled a non Muslim by a believer, so in short, I guess I would ask that you find out from the government of Pakistan, on whose authority did they declare Ahmadi Muslims as non Muslims.

          If you seek direct references from the Quran and Ahadith, please let me know and I will by the leave of Allah provide those for you. As for now, I will curtail this discussion here.

          Jazak’Allah kher

          • Prophet Mohammed is khatamun-nabien, in other word seal of prophet and no prophet will come. Therefore, those who follow other than Prophet Mohammed can not be a muslim.

          • Prophet is the last prophet as mentioned in Holy Quaran i.e. he is seal of prophet. Therefore, those who accept other person over and above Prophet Mohammed how can he be a muslim.

        • hello brother i am muslim r u muslim i need a ahmadis friends

          • Assalamu alayikum brother Atif,

            By the Grace of Allah’s Mercy, I am Muslim and subscribe to the Ahmadiyya viewpoint because my logic, intelligence and heart have been sold to this ideology. I have been blessed by Allah with these faculties of mind, eyes, ears and tongue and when I look around to the Muslim Ummah and the practices and beliefs they adhere to, of fantasy and myth, my faculties do not permit to accept that ideology.

            I was born Ahmadi Muslim, but having taken it for granted, I was very weak in faith and understanding. I became an athiest and began to try and reject Allah altogether. A grave sin on my part, for which I seek His forgiveness. It was by the Mercy of Allah that He brought me back to guidance and ever since, Hehas been slowly revealing more and more truthful understanding of the scriptures and the etiquette of a true follower of Prophet Mohammad Mustafa (saw). Not the etiquette of the everyday Muslim which may be apparent to some readers of this very blog by reading just a few of the comments, because they disclose certain truths about the author.

            I should like to be a friend to you for the sake of Allah and Allah alone. Insha’Allah, if He so wills, may your friendship help me come closer to guidance and may Allah bestow upon me the ability to return the favor to you.

            My email is sa9135@gmail.com

            Jazak’Allah kher
            Shoaib abaidullah

          • Do you have any doubt about me.

          • Please clarify what is the need of forming separate sect of Islam as Islam is complete in all respects. This fact was clarified while delivering the last sermon at the time of Haj. – Alyaoma Akmalto Lakum Dinakum Wa-atmamto nemati waraziata Lakomul Islama Deena.

      • All your points are messed up, before claiming you’re a Muslim, please take the time to research the components of a Muslim. You mentioned that he had attained prophethood however not the distinctive prophethood, however this “opinion ” is refuted with a Hadith in which Nabi SAW said if there was to be a prophet after me it would’ve been Umar, if you had studied any level of USUL UL DEEN, You’d know that prophet is mutlaq which means unconditional, hence distinctive or not, Or normal prophet or not.

      • JazakaLlah khairan.. am An Ahmadi Muslim also

    • But why do they called prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) Katama Nabie?
      Katama Nabie means the seal of all prophets. And they don’t considered Ghulam Ahmad (s.a) as another prophet after Muhammad (s.a.w).
      He was a messenger to reinstate the teachings of the holy prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)

  5. I am not sure if the author does any homework as such, none of these two sects are a part of Islam.

    Islam mandates one believe in Allah as the only one true God and Prophet Muhammad (S) as the last and final prophet from God.

    • Assalmu Alaikum brother Abdul Raheem,

      As explained above, we have perfect belief in Tauheed(oneness of Allah) and perfect belief in Khatamun Nabiyyeen, we declare ourselves to be Muslims and follow the tenets of Islam. Just uttering the words of those whom you align yourself with and closing your eyes and ears to investigate Islam Ahmadiyyat serves you no purpose. It would be better if you investigated Islam Ahmadiyyat with a true and unbiased approach and if still you were not able to conclude that here lies the truth, then your claim has foundation. However, just saying we are not Muslims does not make it so, nor does it assist you in accomplishing and distinguishing truth from error. The Quran declares: truth stands distinct from error, but first investigate the truth, then decide.

      Jazak’Allah kher

  6. Well Shoaib,
    I think you are already misled. To use sweet words and long sentences to justify your cause is so foolish. Do you even know that the Ahmadiya founder died in a toilet. well I think no. You are allowed to know only those stuff which will help qadiyanis to propagate themselve. Go and first educated yourself and then try to be a teacher here.

    • Assalamu Alaikum brother Zurez,

      This allegation has been kindled by the non Ahmafi Ulema and they have tried their utmost to somehow prove that he died (na’auzubillah) in the lavatory. It has been clarified innumerable times by the doctors as well as those present at the time of the demise of Hazrat Masih e Moud (as) that these are completely false allegations and have no relation to the truth.

      It seems, and I do not presume to know, that you have also heard this allegation from the scholars which you follow and without doing any research on your own, you have accepted their claim. The Quran is clear on this verdict, he who passes forth information without doing just research and investigating the information is in clear error:


      If you had merely gone on YouTube and searched for “death of Mirza ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani? Lies of Anti ahmadiyya exposed” you would have been satisfied. I hope you will watch this video, it is in Urdu, if you need English translation, please do not hesitate to ask.

      as per your allegation that my “sweet” words and long sentences are in some way my attempt to conceal some truth or that I am using this to hide some shortcomings about Islam Ahmadiyyat then I must respectfully disagree as this no objection at all. In fact you are affirming that by the Grace of Allah, I am blessed to use this language for the Quran instructs me to use this type of language and not foul and expletive language.

      …..nor defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. How bad is it, to insult one’s brother after having Faith [i.e. to call your Muslim brother as: “O sinner”, or “O wicked”, etc.]. And whosoever does not repent, then such are indeed Zaalimoon (wrong-doers). (Surah Hujaraat:11)

      I pray to Allah that he grants us His Mercy and His forgiveness

      Jazak’Allah kher


      • First of all, for me to swear at a kafir who claims to be a Muslim would not go against this ayat. Brothers: what does this betoken; it means those brothers sharing a link of the same religion, yes as long as they believe 1 Allah, and Nabi SAW is the last prophet, another seminal factor is…… You cannot be on a path that is beside the path of the believers. If you then say ” oh just by listening to the majority doesn’t get you the correct answer” then read this which is mentioned in the holy Quran : whoever follows a path beside the mumineen, then they’ll turn and we’ll turn and their place is jahannum. The path of the believers is that which most Muslims are upon, also if you claim to be a muslim, why do you feel the need to say, ” yes I’m a Qadiani”. There’ll always be two sides of this argument: your way and the right way, and whoever is arguing against you is on the right( I extended the latter part as I was afraid you’d not contemplate as my lack of clarity)

    • Why do you just talk boy really you dont make any sense i mean hoe said that hazrat mirza ghulam ahmed qadiyanni died in a toilet. Give me just i person name who saw it any and really any proof. I am waiting for it. And if you dont have any proof shut your mouth but let me tell you the truth

      It is sad to see how low they will stoop to try to find any weakness against Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, may peace be upon him, but for such an allegation to be made, then there needs to be proof. But where is the proof? Where are the witnesses who saw where he passed away?

      The facts are that there are no witnesses claiming that they saw him die in the toilet!
      It is not written in any of our books that this is where he died!
      The doctor never stated that he was found in the toilet!
      In fact this wasn’t even spoken about at the time of his death!
      This allegation came much later, but based on what? No proof that is for certain; just lies.

      The fact is that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, may peace be upon him, died in Lahore. He went to Lahore with his family as he had to deliver some speeches and meet members of the community. He also took the opportunity to write his last book Paigham-e-Sulah.

      On 20th May 1908, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, may peace be upon him, received his last revelation which was in Arabic:
      “It is the time of departure; yes, it is the time of departure and death is near.”

      Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, may peace be upon him, sadly passed away on 26th May 1908 at the age of 73 years old. He was to be buried in Qadian at Bahishti Maqbarah (Heavenly Graveyard), but in order to be allowed to go on the train; a doctor had to examine him to ensure he carried no contagious disease. The doctor issued a death certificate, but there was no mention of him dying by cholera (as alleged) or dying in the toilet, instead they recorded it as ‘complications arising from severe diarrhoea’. No doubt by suffering from diarrhoea it would have led to his weakness and eventual death, but that doesn’t mean that he died whilst on the toilet. That is just presumptions made by his opponents.

      His body was taken from Lahore to Batala by train and from there his faithful companions carried it on their shoulders to Qadian, a distance of eleven miles. He was buried the next day in the Bahishti Maqbarah.

      • I see here you’re using the same kind of language as others.
        Not good for you.

        • Using same language as others? Where did you see that?

          • Aliya ,

            If Mirza Ghulam qadiani is a messiah ( mehdi ) as per your religion .
            Then we all know that mahdi will be the last oppointed imam . He along with hazrat Esa will fight against dajjal . After that he will die .

            So according to you our whole religion and the end of this world as per authentic ahadis have a big questionmark .
            So what you believe in how this world would end and how Esa will decend .

  7. Mr. Shoaib,
    Why I Should not consider you as biased toward your cause, and presume you to be blindly following your scholars. I have done research, and saw the history of Ahmadis.. I know what they do, and what they do not. For every one page that says qadiani is right, there are million page which says they are fake muslims..or in other words not muslims.

    • Dear brother Zurez:

      Assalamu Alaikum,

      I implore you, do NOT believe my claim as unbiased. You should not believe me just because I am defending what I believe, rather as I stated above, you are commanded by Allah (SWT) to do due diligence on your own. Why not go to alislam.org and type any question you have regarding what the ulema are telling you. It is a place where you can go to to level your allegations and see for yourself why Islam Ahmadiyyat believes what it does.

      Type your question in the “Search Al Islam” bar and it should return you relevant material based on your inquiry. Read our responsestip the false allegations and decide for yourself. Just remember that Allah does not fault us for the things we attempt to rectify in our understanding about Iman if we approach with an open heart and are ready to declare the Truth if we see it. If we do not see the Truth after an unbiased attempt is made, then no way can Ahmadiyyat claim to be the true essence of Islam if he who seeks the truth with vigor is unable to see it. Then there must be something wrong in our claim. It is easy to dismiss and belittle something that goes against our beliefs but if we can put aside these biases and attempt to uncover the Truth then we all must have faith in Allah that he will surely guide us to it.

      I pray to Allah that may He make us all the true and just seekers of Truth so that the path we choose to attain the Truth inevitably leads to Allah.

      You can also go on YouTube and search for “Faith Matters” and you will find many answers covered in those discussions that Ahmadi Muslims as well as non Ahmadi Muslims submit as questions.

      I pray that may Allah guide us all to the path of the righteous and always keep us in his protection.

      Jazak’Allah kher

  8. What is metaphorical sense , Shoaib? Muslim believe is that Prophet Issa is not dead, he was raised to heaven where he is awaiting return. Secondly, Imam Mehdi and Prophet Issa arrival is to fight Dajjal. How can your Mirza figt Dajjal when he himself is dead? And what do you mean by prophet like? Are mad. There is no such term . Later on you will say God like. God said read, but He said read what is true. Your whole arguement is based on the theory of Mirza being divine. We oppose you whooly on the basisi that Mirza was not divine. Shoaib become a true Muslim. Come in the fold of real Islam, you are intelligent , but you are using your mind for the wrong cause. May Allah Guide You.

    • Assalamu Aleykum brother Zurez,

      You have asked many questions to which a short reply cannot be given. To do your questions justice, by Allahs grace, I will expound the answers and correct the question where necessary.

      I should like to tackle your last two comments first, regarding your claim that we hold Messih e Moud (as) to BE Devine. I can presume with some accuracy where and why this issue was raised in your mind. let me state very clearly to the reader that we do not claim, nor accept anyone who claims to BE divine. Our claim and belief is that he is a prophet of Allah, and like all Prophets (as) He (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian a.s.) is also Divinely GUIDED, not Divine (na’auzubillah).

      Then, turning our attention to your question regarding what I mean by “metaphorical sense”. It must be understood that man expresses everything, present, past and future, either in metaphors/similies or in literal terms. So when talking about Hazrat Isa (as) also, we must employ one of these two methods. If the prophesies are to be taken “literally” then ALOT of questions must be answered. Where is Hazrat Isa (as) now? How did he get there when viewed as a man, he is to be bound by laws that all humans are subject to, but if viewed as a God, then since there are no laws that apply, anything is believable which by the way is the Christian point of view ? Please answer these questions which arise if I interpret the meanings “Literally”, then our conversation can move forward.

      But if the meanings are taken metaphorically then such a beautiful picture is painted which is according to the Sunnat of Allah! A person would come who would be raised as a Nabi in the Ummah of Rasulullah (saw) whose mission would be that of Imam Mehdi (as), the return to the original teachings of Islam discarding all man made traditions, fighting Christianity with the pen to spread the true message of Islam. Which is what, by the Grace of Allah is a stark truth which stands in defense of Islam Ahmadiyyats truth. He would also be blessed with the attributes of The Messih (as). It would stand witness in Islam Ahmadidyyats favor that the winds of Justice began to gain sway after his advent. All the worlds justice and equality Organizations came into being and the greatest significance has been placed on these two specific issues within the last century. Taken literally, this Scenario wouldn’t even be discussed because we would still be here trying to figure out first of all where Hazrat Isa (as) went. This also deals with your issue about if he is dead then how can he fight dajjal. Perhaps we will also talk about what picture is presented to us when we take Dajjals prophecies literally.

      Next, your issue about “prophet-like”. Would you please post the full paragraph from where you got this word in my writings then we can discuss God-like (na’auzubillah).

      Lastly I would like to correct your comment about the belief of non Ahmadi Muslims. You are right that this is exactly their belief, could you please tell me how your scholars have resolved the issue of “Khatam Un Nabiyyeen”. Why is it that when you also accept that a Nabi must come after rasulullah (saw), then why have we been declared non Muslims by your scholars and the Pakistani Government? For us, Khatme Nabuwwah is raised as an objection yet your scholars who hold these beliefs are guilty of the same violation (if you call it a violation) yet no one questions them.

      I appreciate sincerely your call to Islam but brother unless you can give me a reason to leave all my objective knowledge which Allah has blessed me with, as well as leaving a set of beliefs which call me toward sacrifice for Allah, call me to prayers, call me to contribute to humanity, I think I’ll stay put. With all due respect to your call toward Islam, my brother, I have already been blessed with the wisdom to accept the truth.

      Insh’Allah may Allah continue to guide us to the light.

      Jazak’Allah kher

      Shoaib abaidullah

      • I need these clarifications :
        1. His name was unlike that of any Prophet.
        2. No Prophet had a teacher.
        3. No Prophet wrote a book.
        4. The books of the Prophets had single names.
        5. No Prophet was a poet.
        6. Prophets were sent to the language of their people.
        7. Prophets were from the offspring of Ibrahim [as].
        8. No Prophet inherited anything.
        9. No Prophet had a discharge.
        10. Prophets were buried in the place they died.
        11. All Prophets received revelation through Gibreel.
        12. All the Prophets performed hajj.
        Prophethood is not something acquired by a person who proves himself worthy, nor is it granted in recognition of piety. Prophethood is an office to which God appoints a man in order to fill a particular need. The Qur’an mentions four conditions under which prophets were sent to the world:
        1- When no prophet had ever been sent to a people before and no divine message had reached them
        2-When the message of an earlier prophet had been forgotten by the people or the teachings of former prophets had been altered with time
        3-When a second prophet was needed to assist a first one
        4-When a single people or group of them had not yet received complete instruction from God or previous prophet.

        After God’s message was completed through revelation to Muhammad and its preservation guaranteed, there was no further need for messengers to convey revelation. From the time of Muhammad’s prophethood, conditions in the world have been conducive to the transmission of God’s message to all civilizations, making the appointment of additional prophets unnecessary. This final message has undergone no amendment or alteration by man; not a single word has been added to it or deleted from it.
        If God intended to send another prophet after Muhammad, He would have made that fact clear in the Qur’an or commanded His Messenger to declare that a prophet would follow him. But the Qur’an clearly affirms that God has now completed His divine mission through Prophet Muhammad. Therefore, the office of prophethood has been canceled, enabling the world to unite in allegiance to the final prophet and obedience to God. For everyone who accepts Muhammad as the divinely appointed final messenger will seek instruction only within the message he conveyed.
        During Mirza’s reign non of above condition is met then why he is sent.Islam say’s during Mehdi’s reign there would be justice and they would followed by a huge community ,they would companion of Hazart Esa (a.s) fought against Christ.I does see all this happening in his(Mirza) reign.

      • Mirza Ghulam Announces the death of Hazrat Eisa Ibne Maryam:
        Despite Quranic injuctions and clear sayings of Holy Prophet Muhammad _about Hazrat Eisa Ibne Maryam,
        Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani had a different opinion. He believed that Hazrat Eisa Ibne Maryam was
        crucified, survived the crucifiction, went to Kashmir and died there at the age of 123. In the words of Holy
        Quran he just followed his conjectures. (which is very obvious when one reads his book Maseeh Hindustan
        “God has revealed to me in his special inspiration that Maseeh Ibne Maryam is dead.” (Tauzeeh-e-
        Maram, Roohani Khazain vol. 3 p.402)
        “I have been informed about the grave of Eisa (in Kashmir). And I have been informed by Holy Quran
        and God’s Revelation to me about the Death of Jesus.” (Roohani Khazain vol. 18 p.358, 361)
        Mirza claims to be the Promised Messiah
        “I proclaim that I am the Promised Messiah about whom every God’s book has prophesized that he will
        appear in the Last Days.” (Tohfa-e-Golravia, Roohani Khazain vol. 17 p.295)
        “I swear upon that God, who has sent me and fabricating on Him is the work of accursed one, He has
        sent me as Promised Messiah.” (Majmoo’a-e-Ishtiharaat vol. 3 p.435)
        From the above quotations it is obvious that Mirza claims that:
        • Hazrat Eisa Ibne Maryam is dead
        • Hazrat Eisa Ibne Maryam’s grave is in Kashmir
        • Hazrat Eisa Ibne Maryam will not come as Promised Messiah (as oppose to the belief of Muslims and
        • Mirza Ghulam has come as Promised Messiah.
        Although Mirza Ghulam claimed to be Eisa Ibne Maryam – the Promised Messiah, according to his own
        revelation, but read the Hadith again and then look at the life history of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani. He did
        not rule even for a single day his own village. Even 100 years after his death, there is no justice in the world and
        there are wars everywhere. Christians have increased To justify his claims Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and
        his followers have ridiculed this belief of breaking the cross and killing the swine, as the following quotation
        “Mian Imamuddin Saheb Sekhwani told me that Hazrat Maseeh Mowood often used to mention that
        according to our opponents when the Messiah will come and people will go to house to meet him, then his
        family will say that Messiah Saheb has gone out to the jungle to kill swines; then these people will exclaim
        that what kind of Messiah is this, that he has come for the guidance of people and he is roaming around
        game-hunting the swines. Then he (Mirza) used to say that the cobblers, sweepers and vagrants, who do
        such things, will be more happy with the coming of such a person; how can Muslims be happy? After
        describing this he used to laugh so much that many a times his eyes used to get watery.” (Seeratul Mahdi
        vol.3 pp 291-292)

  9. Assalamualaikum Brothers the best thing to do is to ignore people like Shoaib as arguing with them without knowledge could have an effect on our Imaan, and we could end up being brainwashed by these people.

    The best thing and the only thing we can do is make Dua for them that Allah gives them and us all Hidayat.
    And leave the debates and arguments to the scholars.

    Jazakallah e khair

    • Wa’alaikum Salam brother Sohail,
      Please forgive me if I have been unable to explain why I believe in Hazrat Masih e Moud (as), as I have Certainly been blessed with the opportunity on this forum.

      While I agree with you that it is only Allah who can bestow hidaya (guidance), it is the duty of every Muslim to perform Jihad with the help of Quran against the unbelievers as well as ourselves. This Jihad is referred to by the Quran as “Jihad e Kabeera”, the loftiest struggle. So, with all due respect, I must inquire from you what you mean when you advise others to ignore people like me? Firstly, I am not an Aalim or a scholar. I am a Muslim who is trying to fulfill, by the Grace of God, my duty, while you are advising people that they should ignore this duty and should not educate themselves so that they too can fulfill this duty.

      If during my discourse on this forum my demeanor has seemed argumentative, then I apologize as that is not what I intended. I would like to share with you my personal experience and how I feel that Allah out of his mercy has guided me to the path where not only do I ask his help in guiding me, but as part of my active prayer, I read and try to learn the message which the holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) has for me. I began, not with improving my Imaan, rather by questioning the Imaan I already had. As more and more questions arose in my mind about Allah, it was his mercy which ultimately provided me with answers that were not only logically acceptable, but the answers also satisfied my heart. It is only Allah who can ultimately rectify our Imaan but He insists that we should struggle for ourselves first and show Him that we are truly seeking his guidance.

      As I have mentioned in my above posts, I neither wish to, nor do I have any power or authority granted by Allah to “brainwash” the reader, however, I can neither sit idle with the gift of guidance which Allah has bestowed upon me, nor claim it as my own. It is a gift and mercy to be shared. Prophet Muhammad (saw), was able to bring the Arabian Peninsula out of darkness not by brainwashing the inhabitants of that area, or by forcing them, he asked Allah to turn their hearts to the way of the truth. In doing so, he personified the claim which Allah makes in the Quran, that he (prophet Muhammad saw) was Rahmat ullil Alamin (mercy for all mankind). I hope you will not find offense in my words, rather, I pray to Allah as you prayed, that Allah out of his infinite mercy bestows guidance upon us all.

      To protect ones Imaan is certainly of great import, but to scare others out of something which is only granted and protected by Allah, Is doing a great injustice to them. I should now like to relate the final story which has been vouchsafed in the Quran for all times to come about Hazrat Musa (as). It is in stark contrast to your advice to the readers and seems very relevant. The reader should know whether his or her prerogative should be to sit idle or to learn as much as possible and then ask Allah to guide him or her to the right path.

      When the Pharaoh and his high officials were contemplating the murder of Hazrat Musa (as), a wise man who had secretly accepted Hazrat Musa (as) stormed into that council and said, what are you doing? Are you really contemplating the murder of this man? He said, IF he is truthful, then what he (Hazrat Musa as) promises you will certainly befall you. So my advice to the readers is this, and I pray to Allah that a seeker of truth shall heed this advice, and reevaluate his/her Imaan. If the claim of Hazrat Masih e Moud (as), Miraz ghulam Ahamd of Qadian, is true, Then what shall be the answer on the Day of Judgment for those who rejected him? Since only knowledge and guidance can lead to the right path, I plead with the reader, do not, I repeat, DO NOT accept my claim simply because I am making it, but please, I beg you , please DO NOT sit idle either and hope for the best as Allah says in the Quran, ignorance will not be an excuse. Please go out there and seek knowledge, if we are Muslims and have complete faith in the mercy and benevolence of Allah towards his creation then know this, Allah says in the Quran, a true seeker of truth shall I lead unto myself. Herein is another beauty which is in the Quran and finds no equal in any other Holy scripture of the world. The Quran in this verse teaches us that there is not one path to God, there are infinite paths, but the only way your path can be turned toward him is by His mercy. So strive in the way of your Imaan, do not take it lightly. Allah is not a distant entity who began the Universe and now sits in some corner, watching. He is with you, He is the hand which works behind the veil, protecting you and sustaining you every single moment of your life. Have faith only in Him, and as He promises, if you seek the truth, undoubtedly He will reveal it to you.

      I know there are many place the reader can go to gain knowledge, but I would be remisced if I didn’t direct the reader to the same place where I found the truth. It is my humble and sincere request that the reader visit alislam.org or askislam.org to either begin their journey towards Imaan, or to find a bearing for the Imaan which you already posses by Allahs mercy.

      You may also write to me if you have any questions, it may take some time for me to get the answers because as I sated earlier, I am not a scholar at all. My email is sa9135@gmail.com

      Jazak’Allah kher

      Ps>> I apologize forthr long email

  10. Shoaib,
    How are you? What are your views on Incident of Mairaj? Kindly take ur time and render me detailed reply. I do not like to plead like ignorant ppl. Let us debate and talk.

    Hamid Mirza

    • Assalamu Aleykum brother Hamid, I apologize for the late reply. With respect to your question, I have recently undertaken an elementary study of Miraj of Rasulullah (saw). The issue which, if I’m not mistaken, you are raising is with respect to whether it was physical or spiritual in nature, correct?

      If my assumption is correct, then I should like to say that I do not believe it to be of a physical nature. Instead I currently believe it to be of spiritual nature. I believe the narration a that are related to us about Isra wal Miraj gain such great significance if taken spiritually, but lose many of the beauties if taken to be physical.

      I’m certainly excited about this discourse as it will allow me to learn more about this incident. With that introduction, I should like to invite you to begin with you understanding and either agree or disagree with my claim, citing references hopefully, to either narrations or the ulema of past times, not the ulema of today.

      Jazak’Allah kher

  11. actually there is no doubt that you qadianis are out of the folds of Islam. Anybody with just a grain of intelligence can grasp that. But if you want the absolute litmus test to verify the true color of this misguided lot, then ask why:
    a) why they have an headquarter, above all places, in Haifa/ Israel?
    b) why the western countries support them and give them special rights?
    c) why mirza was so faithfully to the British raj and until today their world Headquarters is in the UK?

  12. well………..interesting thread…. just want to say……..DIVINE GUIDANCE also ended with Prophet Muhammad (SAW) so………………no more prophets….no prophet like beings and no more divine guidance

  13. The thoughts of Ahmadi or Lahore Grroup or Qadiani totaly baseless. Infact ghulam ahmad was a tout of britishers as they always dose to damage the Islam. ghulam ahmad was mentaly and sexualy sick man.

    • You dont him so shut your mouth but today everyperson who reads this comment knows what kind of person you are a person full of dirty mind who does not care about someones fellings imagine wat if i have said the same things about your religion. It hurts really it hurts a lot. So please dont come here to give peaple pain we are all just a humans i am just 15 and i have enough knowledge about wat hurts peaple why dont you guy. Go away please be silence if your words are not better the silence go have a life find your life and stop with your those comments which can hurt anyone.

      • Right you have a point

      • During his life Mirza Ghulam Ahmad always supported english govt.He was like a sycophant of english govt who would proudly mention in his writings the service rendered by his family to British govt.Imagine a prophet of god working for govt of Infidels.And when quran and Hadith explicitly declare finality of Prophet Muhammad saw.Why should one believe in zilli nabi?I have a lot of stuff to prove mirza and his followers wrong.

  14. Those people who want to attain guidance always get guidance.
    If you all are not satisfied after reading all of Shoaib’s comments then visit alislam.org or askislam.org for further information.

  15. they are totally darama…………their is not prophet after Muhammad PBUM and no more guidance is required everything is fullfilled after Muhammad PBUM. such claiming are totally ruthless and based on hypocracy.
    We must condemn this Ahmadiat and Qadayaniat they are totally shits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • If there is no more guidance required then why are you waiting for second arrival of prophet eesa and why is Muslim ummah going in crisis?

      • Muhammad PBUH is our last prophet . Sentence is complete no more discussion. If it is mention in quran we should stick to it and those who need more guidence inspite of having quran and our beloved last prophet PBUH sayings should refrain your self from islam .

  16. Theri founder looks more like a Hindu pandit than a Muslim.
    And by the way qadianis, no matter what they call themselves, are non-Muslims. There are no ifs and buts. MOHAMMED peace be upon him is the last Messenger of Allah.

  17. salam alaikum warahmotullah.
    As everyone has expressed their opinion, so do I write to clarify Islamul-Ahmadiyya..
    Firstly, I would like to thank Shuaib for his contributions, may Allah reward him with the best..my words would not be much as he has said almost all I would like to say.. but “Allah guides whom He wills” ..
    When the Jamaat first started, the greatest problem we had was with other muslims who failed to recognize the Mahdi(a.s),as it has been happening since the beginning of Prophethood, that a part of those who prophets were sent to ,disbelived in them and even go as far as fighting them, even desperately planning to have them dead.. so its not unusual when the Mahdi id denied.. but,do those who deny him carefully assess and justify his claims? have you read his books?The signs that will occur when the Mahdi comes? We have to think.. If the mahdi will force people into islam, hope its not going to be against “laa ikra fideen “(there shall be no compulsion in religion) and it ill tarnish the image of Islam as a religion of Peace..
    The prophet said:
    “A time will come,when Iman, and the light of lslam would have left the earth and gone far away to a star(surayya),The Mahdi will come to restore the beauty of islam, kill the Swine(remove dirty, all blemishes against islam and cleans islam), break the cross (resolve issues and clear all accusation against Jesus(a.s) regarding the cross)…. not that he shall take sword to defend islam.. the two terms musnt be taken literally but figuratively(metaphorically)
    He also said “Laa mahdi, illah Isa ibn Maryam.. this clearlyvstate that Both are the same person..
    also,the concept of dajjal must not be viewed as a single person, but a group of people, who aided disbelive on earth, causes mischief on earth, with one eye ,left eye(spiritually blind),
    kufr will be seen(by both literate and illiterates)at his forehead (who are the dajal if not the westerners that spread immoralties and causes mischief on earth).. this prophecies are not literal but metaphorical signs..
    its so disgusting that the Muslims of this day av became hard hearted and blindfolded by self beliefs.
    About the ascension of christ to heaven by non Ahmadis ..
    This claim is similar to that of the Christians, but let us justify.. if anyone is to be bodily ascended to heaven, it should be the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) ,saying Jesus(a.s) was ascended bodily will be a disrespect to the holy prophet(s.a.w) as this give the christians reason to say He is superior to Muhammad (s. a. w).. 2. It will be against the the verse of the holy Quran that said
    “All souls shall have the taste of death”
    “Messengers hve passed away(all including Jesus) before muhammad (s.a.w) if he die or was killed, will you turn back?”(q3 vs 185)
    “no Qur’an verse as ever said anyone ascend alive,bodily to heaven, without having died”
    “Prophet Muhammad (s. a. w) during his spiritual journey (miraj) met Jesus and Yahya(alaihum salam) in second heavens and they both salamah to him.. Alas! Jesus died a natural death!
    Have you forgotten how the story of Jesus was related to Jonah(a.s)?
    both the bible and the quran justify dat Jesus didn’t ascend to heaven bodily ..
    The verse of Quran said .
    “they planned, Allah plans, Surely, Allah is the best of planners”
    why would the Almighty took away his servant when his trial and mission(the lost sheep of isreal) is incomplete? Allah is not author of confusion..
    The words that are misunderstood by many Muslim scholars are “rafa’a” nd Mutawwafa”
    Allah said” Jesus was not crucified(did not die on the cross) not that he was not nailed to the cross,
    Let us examine some verses..

    . “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me– `Worship Allah, my Lord andyour Lord’ and I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher overthem, and Thou art Witness over all things.” (5:118)The corruption of the Christians has been categorically stated in the Holy Quran:“Indeed they are disbelievers who say, `Surely Allah is none but the Messiah, son of Mary’.” (5:73) “They are surely disbelievers who say’, `Allah is the third of three; `there is no God but the One God.” (5:74)As God in the name of Hazrat Jesus(as)declares that Christians became corrupt after the death of Hazrat Jesus(as), how can we think that Hazrat Jesus(as)is not dead but alive in heaven?Imam Bukhari in his book,Sahih Bukhari–the most authentic book after the Book of God, has quoted the saying of Hazrat Ibn Abbas(ra)under the commentary of Verse 5:118: “Qaala Ibno Abbasin Mutawaffeeka Mumeetoka“, i.e., Hazrat Ibn Abbas(ra)said, the meaning ofTawafeeis death.Imam Bukhari has named a Bab (Chapter)–Babo Tawaffiyo Rasool-ullahi Sallallaho Alaihi Wa Sallam, in which the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of God be on him) has connoted the meaning of Hazrat Jesus’(as)Tawaffeeas that of his ownTawaffee. The Holy Prophet(saw)said:“On the day of Qiyamat some people of my Ummat would be taken towards Hell. Then I shall say, `O my Lord! these are my companions’, Then it would be said! `thou don’t know what they innovated after thee’. Then, I shall say as the righteous servant said: `I was a witness over themas long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them.’” (BukhariKitabul Tafseer, Vol. 3, p. 79, Vol. II, p. 159)Again, we also read in the Holy Quran:“O Jesus! indeed I will cause thee to die and exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee of (the charges of) those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who deny thee, until the Day of Resurrection.” (3:56)Hazrat Jesus(as)was exalted (or raised) to God after hisdeath like all other righteous servants of God. The words `exalt thee’ or `raise thee’ come after the words `cause to die’. We have no right to change the order of the Holy Quran. It is reported that the Holy Prophet(saw)was asked, whether he would make the circuit of Safa first or that of the Marwa. He replied,Abdao Bima Bada-Allaho–I shall start with what Allah has started. Hence, we have to keep the order of the Quran. The meaning ofTawaffeehas already been given..
    also, the passing away has been adjudged only in two ways–either by death or through assassination. Had there been any third way of passing away (like that of ascending to heaven) it shouldhave been mentioned by God. As a matter of fact this verse (3:145) has been revealed specifically to declare the death of Hazrat Jesus(as), as the passing away of other Messengers had already been mentioned in 5:76 wherein Allah says:“The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food.”It is an admitted fact that the ceasing of Mary’s eating was due to her death, hence, on the same analogy, the ceasing of Hazrat Jesus’(as)eating too was due to his death, as both have been mentioned equally..
    Another verse of the Holy Quran which proves the death of Hazrat Jesus(as)is:“We granted not abiding life to any human being before thee. If then thou shouldst die, shall they have abiding life?” (21:35)God loves the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) more than He loves anyone else. He was the purpose for all creation as Hadith says: “Had I not created thee I would have created neither heaven nor earth.”Hence, if any man deserved to remain alive and ascend to heaven, it was our Holy Prophet(saw). If he has died in the usual way, other prophets have died in the same way. We know too well that the deniers of the Holy Prophet(saw)challenged him and asked him if he could perform the miracle of ascent to Heaven? They said:“We will not believe except if you ascend to Heaven. And we will not believe in your ascent unless you bring to us from Heaven a Book which we may then read.” (17:94)In reply to this challenge, God did not empower the Holy Prophet(saw)to show the miracle which the Holy Prophet’s(saw)deniers asked him to show. Instead,

    • Assalamu alaikum,

      This is shoaib posting after a long time. I appreciate your kind words but I would like to inform you that I am not longer an Ahmadi and have accepted Islam.

      All my comments from past few years were based on the Friday sermons and Q&A sessions of Mirza Tahir Ahmad sahib on YouTube along with Faith Matters programs. It was only when I began to read the writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib that I became familiar with his actual claims and beliefs.

      After a thourough study of his work and the works of his predecessors, I came to realize that I had been misled and could no longer remain in this ideology.

      May Allah shine his Mercy upon you as well so that you may also be guided away from this falsehood. Ameen

      Assalamu alaikum

      • Dear Shoaib,
        Could you please state the ”actual claims and beliefs” mentioned in your last mail?
        Also make reference the ”books” which contained the writings of The Promised Messiah (as) and relate to us the story of how you found Íslam’

      • Shoaib is no more.
        His ghost is wringing all this.

      • Mr. Shoiab you’ve very long and detailed comments but I think it will be helpful to present and argument on the debate in 70 which have proven Ahmedi as non Muslims. I missed the comments and arguments made by Mulana Mofti Mehmood.

        What I’ve learned from my religion though being a Muslim I should read more about Islam. This is very sensitive issue to debate being similarities in your belief but some dissimilarities. let me clear one thing, After Muhammad SWS there would be no Nabi, once chapter of Ambyaa has been closed then no more wahi can be sent to anyone as Islam and Quran is complete from all aspects.
        In my opinion in light of what I have learned about Islam:
        A Muslim is a person who believes Allah almighty is the one and there is no God except Allah.

        Muhammad SWS is last messenger and no messenger after him in any form and Quran as last and complete book. It’s well cleared from Quran that after Muhammad SWS no Nabi. As it’s complete Deen so no messenger no wahi. Isa Alihe Salam would come as his umati.

        For Miraj, it’s physically possible and has been proven by physics. E=MC2. If anything travel at double speed of light the matter would be converted into energy. Roh is Noor and Noor comes from where. When someone gets die what happens to his weight. This very debatable topic.

        Allah almighty guide and put us on right track.

  18. God made the Prophet say: “Holy is my Lord! I am not but a man sent as Messenger.” (17:94) Knowing this, how can we think the Holy Prophet(saw)should rise to Heaven, but die in the normal way and be buried here in thisearth,and Hazrat Jesus(as)shouldgo to Heaven and remain alive for these two thousand years?“And those on whom they call beside Allah create not anything, but they are themselves created. They are dead, not living; and they know not when they will be raised.” (16:21,22)Hazrat Jesus(as)is also among those to whom they callbeside Allah (5:73), hence, he is dead…Wallahu ‘alam..May Allah open our hearts to accept the truth, Guide us in the right path..forgive our sins and Grant us aljannah..

  19. The Ahmadi community is facing God’s will and wrath, as they helped create Pakistan along with the Shias, Aga Khanis, Khojas etc. In spite of serving Pakistan dedicatedly and sincerely, they deserve this fate and destiny just like the rest of the countrymen, majority or minority.

  20. You guys are id*ots. Some guy in Qadian made some claims more than 100 years ago and you motherfuckers still can’t stop fighting over it. Just wow. Jamaat e qdiani are full of shit deceitful pigs, why yall gotta stoop to their level.

  21. Misguided lot, you are!

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