WEBVTT NOTE recognizability 0.920 NOTE language en-us 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:01.050 Welcome to the program. 00:00:02.230 --> 00:00:07.020 Here so let's begin there with obama care have to get your reaction to the supreme 00:00:07.020 --> 00:00:13.000 court decision upholding the ac...seven to two decision there. 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:17.770 over the last decade the...become kind of really integral part of the fabric of the 00:00:17.770 --> 00:00:20.000 healthcare system here in the us 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:24.510 and at the same time there's always been this sort of it's an overhead as 00:00:24.510 --> 00:00:28.970 president front used every means possible including the... 00:00:28.970 --> 00:00:35.620 Including the legislature including the negative authority to try to undermine it and... 00:00:35.620 --> 00:00:40.450 today saw the end of that, you know, seven...ruling which says you don't even have standing 00:00:40.450 --> 00:00:45.240 ...close to get this case are...court if you're going to hear from the supreme court. 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:49.710 You do have to ask why people who don't have standing in other words they're not even being harmed 00:00:49.710 --> 00:00:54.750 by the law would...work so hard to take healthcare away from so many people 00:00:54.750 --> 00:00:58.630 but there's probably a broad topic for us so let me ask you one more 00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:03.350 question on this subject because what does it mean going forward I mean you talk in your book about the need for 00:01:03.350 --> 00:01:08.100 better public health policy does now the opportunity to expand 00:01:08.100 --> 00:01:14.900 health care for millions of americans address some of those concerns that you raise in the book. 00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:19.990 Well, you know, one of the things that should the book shows is that we're healthcare system worked 00:01:19.990 --> 00:01:24.530 ...as people lost their jobs here in the us is...word by the millions they 00:01:24.530 --> 00:01:29.940 ...also losing their health access to health care so we've situation and they were...of 00:01:29.940 --> 00:01:35.510 someone filed in the...amazon warehouse who had this sort of triple threat of 00:01:35.510 --> 00:01:40.870 ...job got covert couldn't get paid and couldn't get a covert test 00:01:40.870 --> 00:01:46.020 because we didn't have enough so the situation for many americans was sort of 00:01:46.020 --> 00:01:49.870 a system that was the opposite of resilience it didn't help us in terms of 00:01:49.870 --> 00:01:52.490 painted piled on top of us in 00:01:52.490 --> 00:01:57.340 terms of difficulty, yeah, nightmare scenario that you just painted right there speaking of a potential 00:01:57.340 --> 00:02:01.880 nightmare scenario let's talk about this delta variant first detected in india the 00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:06.860 cdc director saying today that she doesn't dissipate that it's going to become the dominant variant here in the 00:02:06.860 --> 00:02:11.920 united states world health organization saying the same globally you have called this 00:02:11.920 --> 00:02:18.720 encoded on steroids how concerned are you about this particular variance? 00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:23.610 I'm quite concerned for the globe the un vaccinated parts of the world which is, 00:02:23.610 --> 00:02:28.500 you know, we ...many have a more 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:33.210 ...visible bugs to deal with so it steps 00:02:33.210 --> 00:02:38.020 of the urgency directly that low same is true with the parts of the us and the people...us that... 00:02:38.020 --> 00:02:43.570 in vaccinated their chances of walking into a room and 00:02:43.570 --> 00:02:48.790 getting cove...are probably about double than the original code of twenty, 00:02:48.790 --> 00:02:53.420 twenty so if it's if you ten minutes of exposure before it may take you 00:02:53.420 --> 00:02:58.220 five minutes now so that's kind of thing that's invisible to us and we should be wary of it 00:02:58.220 --> 00:03:02.870 ...another reason why if you're not vaccinated you should strongly consider talking to your doctor and 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:06.000 get vaccinated protect yourself because if you are vaccinated 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:11.560 ...good news then this variant is very harmless and 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:17.590 ...parts of the country and parts of the world...people are vaccinated this is not a 00:03:17.590 --> 00:03:23.780 real threat so it is a once again I have...have the story? 00:03:23.780 --> 00:03:27.690 That is reassuring how about for children however we know that not all 00:03:27.690 --> 00:03:31.040 children are vaccinated now they haven't been approved at 00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:36.080 ...receive their vaccines children twelve and younger are you concerned at all 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:42.730 about how this could impact them going into the summer and then obviously in the fall the sort of a new school year. 00:03:42.730 --> 00:03:46.670 I think it's very little risk I mean I would classify. 00:03:46.670 --> 00:03:50.630 Covered nineteen today...a manageable risk 00:03:50.630 --> 00:03:54.210 ...challenge we have lots of manageable challenges and, 00:03:54.210 --> 00:04:00.240 you know, it is threatening to children it is less threatening than so many other things in their lives 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:05.710 including...and swimming pool including other types of things so certainly 00:04:05.710 --> 00:04:11.250 it's possiblethe someone under twelve present vaccinated could get 00:04:11.250 --> 00:04:16.490 ...but remember they won't be able to pass it to you...teachers as adults 00:04:16.490 --> 00:04:20.020 ...they've been vaccinated unlikely respect one another and...likely to 00:04:20.020 --> 00:04:25.630 be very mild so we obviously when your children vaccinated as quickly as possiblebut, 00:04:25.630 --> 00:04:29.970 until that time and you should give it and you can serve...doesn't look 00:04:29.970 --> 00:04:34.670 however that the president united states going to reach the president's goal of seventy percent of the 00:04:34.670 --> 00:04:39.430 country being vaccinated by july fourth we know the vaccine hesitancy is very high in this 00:04:39.430 --> 00:04:44.370 country stubbornly high especially given the amount of vaccine that is available in the us 00:04:44.370 --> 00:04:49.970 it is sort of an embarrassment of riches compared to other countries especially developing world countries 00:04:49.970 --> 00:04:53.220 I was listening to an interview earlier about sort of the 00:04:53.220 --> 00:04:57.050 us' dominance in the vaccine roll-out relative to europe 00:04:57.050 --> 00:05:00.110 ...this experts said that may be the case now 00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:04.220 what by the end-of-the-year barring one or two countries in europe that most of 00:05:04.220 --> 00:05:09.690 european countries will have higher vaccination levels than the united states 00:05:09.690 --> 00:05:16.470 do you agree with that and how worried are you about this vaccine hesitancy here? 00:05:16.470 --> 00:05:20.940 Well, I think the question for us is going to be a regional one because they 00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:25.560 were going to be very close to the president's goal...percent by july fourth and they're going to keep 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:30.470 going and I think it will movie and then I suspect when the fda approves 00:05:30.470 --> 00:05:35.090 give formal approval for the drugs which by the way the miraculous development 00:05:36.790 --> 00:05:41.630 ...which was led by three heroes outlined in preventable which is in the 00:05:41.630 --> 00:05:47.850 book the talking about ...we get through that I think we're going to find is that there are 00:05:47.850 --> 00:05:52.050 parts of the country that are eighty to ninety percent vaccinated and therefore very 00:05:52.050 --> 00:05:55.860 safe plus some of the natural immunity and other parts of the country? 00:05:55.860 --> 00:06:01.870 ...thirty forty fifty percent and a lot of that in the southeast so, I think that's where 00:06:01.870 --> 00:06:06.360 there's going to be exposure and there's going to be risk and I know that 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:11.700 the president doesn't what country of half-and-half does want to see this 00:06:11.700 --> 00:06:13.950 happen so...going to just take tremendous focus 00:06:13.950 --> 00:06:18.600 on the part of the country where we don't yet have 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:23.580 ...levels and I think we need to I would invite people to...if the 00:06:23.580 --> 00:06:29.420 two take a little bit of a step back from how we think about vaccine has distance e 00:06:29.420 --> 00:06:34.060 imbalance that there are indeed people that are anti vaccine but the vast majority of people that 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:39.040 haven't taken cover backing I've taken other vaccines so the question is 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:43.090 ...we should assume that they have questions that they have concerns that it's 00:06:43.090 --> 00:06:47.030 ...considered process for them...it was say for me who knew right away that I wanted 00:06:47.030 --> 00:06:51.350 to get vaccinated and they probably will eventually get vaccinated but we have to help them get the 00:06:51.350 --> 00:06:56.090 questions answered by...doctor other people...trust and not 00:06:56.090 --> 00:07:00.840 drawn facebook to...it's about...effectively which is why perhaps 00:07:00.840 --> 00:07:05.830 would be a better idea from any of those who have questions to be able to get vaccinated by their doctors who they 00:07:05.830 --> 00:07:10.480 do indeed trust before we get to your book I do want to ask you about the eu lifting that 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:14.970 nonessential travel banned from us travelers to europe 00:07:14.970 --> 00:07:19.530 and is now the time to do that and why has the us not done this 00:07:19.530 --> 00:07:24.450 same m sure they do that now or should we continue to wait? 00:07:24.450 --> 00:07:29.240 Well, I think that we're moving towards a place where. 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:33.810 We should be and I'm going to say a word that people are going to have a hard time...but, 00:07:33.810 --> 00:07:39.330 celebrate the success we've had in the fact that we're able to get import parts of our 00:07:39.330 --> 00:07:44.490 life back exactly when and what order we do things like lifted travel 00:07:44.490 --> 00:07:49.540 and, go to concerts so forth are going to be both governmental decisions as well as individual decisions 00:07:49.540 --> 00:07:51.820 ...going to have to make but you know, 00:07:51.820 --> 00:07:55.500 for many of us who for more than a year have seen 00:07:55.500 --> 00:08:01.000 kobe this big existential threat it's hard to picture that a lot of things that we 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:05.910 were not doing are indeed safe again and they are...of all things 00:08:05.910 --> 00:08:10.320 ...change...will need to pay attention but right now I think people would regret not 00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:14.910 viewing this summer we're very low exposure as a time 00:08:14.910 --> 00:08:19.760 to get back to things in their life that they've missed so much I love hearing that from you 00:08:19.760 --> 00:08:24.760 andy because I've been following your work throughout this past year-and-a-half if not longer 00:08:24.760 --> 00:08:30.070 and there were times where you were very concerned you are not only sounding this optimistic so 00:08:30.070 --> 00:08:35.140 it is reassuring to hear this coming from you right now let's talk about the book and, 00:08:35.140 --> 00:08:39.060 what you've uncovered here because you focus on the lack of leadership 00:08:39.060 --> 00:08:44.280 fright the technical mistakes that were made in the united states that were never expected to 00:08:44.280 --> 00:08:45.770 have been made in the most advanced 00:08:45.770 --> 00:08:51.160 ...richest country in the world no doubt we would have been suffering many thousands 00:08:51.160 --> 00:08:56.160 of deaths regardless of who was in leadership here but can you talk about that 00:08:56.160 --> 00:09:01.130 ...impact of all of those mistakes combined having on a country advance 00:09:01.130 --> 00:09:06.190 to the united states right well let's posit some mistakes are 00:09:06.190 --> 00:09:09.810 ...right I mean magic epidemic is hard and if someone 00:09:09.810 --> 00:09:14.750 gets something wrong but they're but they're well-meaning and their empathetic and 00:09:14.750 --> 00:09:19.890 ...they fix them we should be forgiving ...those types of leaders 00:09:19.890 --> 00:09:24.830 because this was a novel endemic and tough choices to be made nobody's perfect but 00:09:24.830 --> 00:09:30.310 there were three I think what I would call deadly sins that I that I did we witnessed 00:09:30.310 --> 00:09:32.880 ...the trump administration and by the way this is a 00:09:32.880 --> 00:09:37.780 democrat republican thing I think of mit romney or another type of type of republican would 00:09:37.780 --> 00:09:42.750 have manage things very differently but, we witness for I think three things that really 00:09:42.750 --> 00:09:47.080 ...above and beyond just pure mismanagement one was just 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:48.950 ...ability to deny? 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:50.330 Is willingness to denied 00:09:50.330 --> 00:09:54.440 ...virus...try to cantor reality? 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:57.000 ...to his version of events, you know, 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.530 if you...very simply set early on when he knew in january 00:10:00.530 --> 00:10:05.430 ...have a problem and we all need to be careful...have saved hundreds of thousands of 00:10:05.430 --> 00:10:09.940 lives that one thing alone just simply not denying the problem 00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:13.680 ...don't...continuously the second is the question 00:10:13.680 --> 00:10:17.520 descent, you know, put room to have a scientific phenomena 00:10:17.520 --> 00:10:22.330 striker country and you decide that you don't want people to speak out 00:10:22.330 --> 00:10:27.290 who have expertise it's very dangerous I give you one example in the book is alex 00:10:27.290 --> 00:10:31.740 says are you is that painted necessarily particularly sympathetically 00:10:33.020 --> 00:10:37.880 at one point months ago on fox and friends and say that they're going well which 00:10:37.880 --> 00:10:42.430 they weren't but, the things could change rapidly just that one phrase 00:10:42.430 --> 00:10:46.330 got the white house took him off a fox and friends and banned him from media 00:10:46.330 --> 00:10:50.090 for forty five days so imagine...we have a pen dynamic in this country 00:10:50.090 --> 00:10:55.050 in our own department of health and human services isn't allowed to talk to the press or the public 00:10:55.050 --> 00:11:00.060 big because it was different from the...is this whole thing is overblown... 00:11:00.060 --> 00:11:05.420 other continuously throughout the process so those types of things 00:11:05.420 --> 00:11:11.380 where things that are just well above just normal kind of father of war kind of 00:11:11.380 --> 00:11:16.550 mistakes...yeah, I think it was exactly or right around this time last year 00:11:16.550 --> 00:11:21.690 were...question came out and said that we had overcome covert right that had been defeated 00:11:21.690 --> 00:11:25.070 and digests next month last year was when my pants wrote 00:11:25.070 --> 00:11:30.140 ...similar op-ed as well it was just shocking to not 00:11:30.140 --> 00:11:35.010 be able to trust public officials in a country like the united states of america but that is 00:11:35.010 --> 00:11:38.360 where we were looking forward you've also sounded the alarm that 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:43.050 we're not prepared run in a place where we can be prepared where we need to be in terms of 00:11:43.050 --> 00:11:47.460 the next pandemonium you list a number of issues as to why some of 00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:51.990 that ison us as americans as citizens to watch out for each other 00:11:51.990 --> 00:11:56.920 as a community but I'm curious to get your take on how much of that depends on finding 00:11:56.920 --> 00:12:01.730 the origins of this pandemonium and whether there was a lab 00:12:01.730 --> 00:12:05.440 leak whether this was naturally in nature from bad to animals 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:11.100 ...human how important is that in your view in terms of 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:15.740 making sure something like that doesn't happen again? 00:12:15.740 --> 00:12:19.990 Right well versus and, you're christian or, you know, one of one of 00:12:19.990 --> 00:12:24.800 ...reasons I wanted to write the book preventable is because I had a first-person a 00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:30.010 set of interactions throughout the course of last year with...and with the...with 00:12:30.010 --> 00:12:35.480 ...e so there is inside story to be told which...narrative form 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:41.510 virtually verbatim all of those interactions which is quite telling it was we 00:12:41.510 --> 00:12:46.550 think about preventing this from happening again you know, 00:12:46.550 --> 00:12:50.990 first of all the question of the origin of the viruses 00:12:50.990 --> 00:12:56.100 unsettled we don't know there's some circumstantial evidence which would 00:12:56.100 --> 00:13:00.780 cause you to paint a picture which is a was this...lab...the 00:13:00.780 --> 00:13:06.290 league there's another scenario which says low most viruses...an article in these 00:13:06.290 --> 00:13:11.280 jump from bad to human so...more likely that case but neither in either case 00:13:11.280 --> 00:13:16.030 ...have the evidence that we need china's cooperation and we should be put in a lot of pressure on china 00:13:16.030 --> 00:13:19.950 ...we should be singular so here the us regardless of the cause 00:13:19.950 --> 00:13:24.830 ...matter viruses are going to be with us and we 00:13:24.830 --> 00:13:30.170 ...sort of led a charmed existence in the us where we have not been affected by 00:13:30.170 --> 00:13:35.150 ...and we tend to think in this in the us that...so what above the world problems being a wealthy nation 00:13:35.150 --> 00:13:39.730 being an island nation but the truth is we're not so the question is what we have to 00:13:39.730 --> 00:13:42.240 be prepared next time and that is better technically prepared 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.120 ...only just the cdc has to do a better job but, you know, 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:50.540 until the time there's such a vaccine the only medicine we have is how we relate 00:13:50.540 --> 00:13:55.030 to one another is how we communicate with one another is whether we protect one another so 00:13:55.030 --> 00:14:00.420 there's a our questions at the book races to say you know, are these things we can get better next 00:14:00.420 --> 00:14:04.880 timeand, I think those are things I hope you have a dialogue about 00:14:04.880 --> 00:14:09.380 love a constant reminder of that forever in our history unfortunately will be the six hundred 00:14:09.380 --> 00:14:14.240 thousand american lives that were lost because in part because of what you 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:18.460 describe in your book is just not being prepared and we do need to look out for each other 00:14:18.460 --> 00:14:22.920 andy thank you so much for your time and for all of your work this has been 00:14:22.920 --> 00:14:27.160 a nonstop blood sweat and tears for you and we appreciate everything you've 00:14:27.160 --> 00:14:31.450 done your service for this country thank you thank you so much?