How Cheryl Ditched Corporate America And Is Making $10,000/Month In The Real Estate Niche



How Cheryl Pinkard Ditched Corporate America And Is Making $10,000/Month In The Real Estate Niche. 

Niche: Helping real estate teams and agents land more leads, close more deals with Facebook lead generation and conversion strategies 

Here's what we cover:

1. Where Cheryl was before joining Consulting Accelerator. 

2. The corporate environment Cheryl was in and why she needed a change.

3. Who Cheryl helps and how she structures her offer to them.  

4. How she services her clients and why it is more effective than traditional methods. 

5. How Cheryl started booking speaking events and closing more deals. 

6. Cheryl’s vision for the future of her business. 

Cheryl’s #1 piece of advice for members:

Don’t give up. 


Transcript / MP3

Nick Hauser: Welcome everybody, Nick Hauser here and in today's interview I want to be sitting down with Cheryl pinkerd and Cheryl's got a pretty interesting and unique story, you know, Sheryl was working a full time corporate job and she joined the consulting accelerator program and has grown her agency up to the point where it's making $10,000 per month right now. And Cheryl helps. I want to make sure I get this exactly right because we talked about earlier, Cheryl homes, real estate teams and agents land more leads and close more deals with facebook lead generation and conversion strategies. So we're going to really dive into, you know, how Cheryl was working in this corporate job and made this transition and actually starting to have success now with the point where she has no salad momentum and you know, she's at the point where, um, you know, she's really able to look into scale with the revenue she's currently making. So first off, Cheryl, how are you doing? Cheryl Pinkard: Great, nick, thanks for having me. How are you doing? Good. I'm good. Awesome to have you here. Happy to be here. Nick Hauser: So let's start, you know, you're at this corporate job before the program were like, what kind of job were you working at? Like what industry were you doing? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, so my background is finance, so I majored in finance and business administration and then I basically worked on Wall Street for like 10 years. So I worked at Goldman Sachs for awhile and then uh, Ernst and Young for awhile and then my last corporate job was capital one and their commercial bank and I did a range of different marketing and research and analytical types of jobs during that 10 to 12 year time span. Nick Hauser: Got It. In, Nick Hauser: did you get to a point ever where, you know, right before you joined the program, like was anything going on in those jobs where you weren't feeling fulfilled or you're looking for a change? Can you describe that? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, so I'm the kind of person who really never wanted to work for anybody out. So even in college it kind of like gave me hives to think about having to leave and work for somebody else forever. So I um, I was a kid in high school who did the Reading Rich Dad, poor dad and multiple streams of income by Robert Allen, like real estate investing books. So I think really my whole career I was looking for a way out, like I knew that, you know, train this thing into a full job, full time job. Back then it was Kinda like, you know, it's the thing that you do right. There wasn't such a big entrepreneurial push like, like we have now where people are kind of aware that there are different options earlier on in their life and their career. Um, but yeah, it was just always kind of looking for a way to go out on my own. Cheryl Pinkard: In the last job I had a lot of management changes so I ended up basically kind of being manager list for almost a year. And if anybody has ever worked in a corporate job, you know that if you don't have a manager or somebody going to bat for you, it's pretty easy to get lost in the shuffle. And it just doesn't end up being a really good working experience. So that was, that was what was going on and uh, from manager to manager ended up on one team that just really wasn't a good fit and we mutually agree that it was probably best that, uh, uh, that we go. So, you know, I was able to get, you know, like a severance package and, you know, they've sent me on my way and I happily went and instead of looking for a new job, I actually started to apply for new jobs. Um, but then I was like, you know, I'm not going to, I don't want to go to work, I don't want to work for anybody else again. Um, it was around that time that Sam had been in my newsfeed for awhile. Like it happens with most of us I think. And I just scrolled by him for awhile, but you know, at that point in time I was like, you know, I'm gonna check this out and maybe this will be a blueprint to help me to do what I want to do. So. Nick Hauser: Nice. And before we kind of transition into when you actually joined and what happened next? I think it's really important because a lot of people out there, they are more aware of the options, but there's some people that are still very stuck in that we'll call it older mindset where you come out of college and did you can land a job, especially at one of these corporates like you're talking about like Goldman Sachs. That's like the best thing ever. Yeah. And you mentioned too like you know, people maybe you don't go into at bat for you and can you explain just that what that culture and environment is like in a very large corporate relation like that versus working for maybe like a small business? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So the, the, like the big, like fortune 500 or 100 companies. The corporate culture is, it's its own kind of like be spent, you have to adapt to. So um, it's interesting because it's almost kind of like a lot of many cultures within a greater culture. So, you know, I had colleagues who had very different experiences for me working at the same company, but just, I guess generally to answer your question, the corporate culture at tech generally, especially in finance is pretty rigid so you have to, you know, fit into a specific mold and there are certain behaviors and things that are expected in terms of just like working all the time and always being on Paul and not really having a personal life and not valuing things outside of business and work. Um, so just like the values were not really aligned with what I wanted to do ultimately for, you know, for my, for my life and for my career. Cheryl Pinkard: I think there they were all great learning experiences and I met great people and I learned a lot in those jobs and I think it was great preparation for kind of going out on my own because it was almost like I got the most intense type of culture right up front. So everything else kind of seem to be a little bit easier after that. But um, yeah, it's, there's a lot of sort of like checking the boxes and not a whole lot of room for individuality and creativity and that sort of thing. So I don't know if that answers your question, but feel free to let me know if not. Nick Hauser: Yeah, a little bit. You know, GimMe Gimme an example like what a week would look like working in a Goldman Sachs I. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So I mean I worked for the most part. I worked in the investment banking division and I worked in their, their merger group, so my day started around like 7:00 because I have to get in before the markets open and go through the newswires and look at look kind of like scout for deals that we're either going to be announced or potential deals and report that to the other bankers and the group. So started super early and usually ended really late. There are some nights where I will like till midnight or later and some nights where I was, would be working on a deck for a client or something like that. And um, you know, I work just long enough to like get to go home and shower and come back to work so it didn't happen every night and it wasn't all the time, but it depends on where you are in the bank to some departments have, you know, a shorter hours than others, but you know, like the traders, they get an early but they leave around four or five when the markets close. Right. But um, yeah, so just a lot of, a lot of hours and a almost kind of like a lot of work for little little appreciation sometimes. So, uh, so yeah, it was a, it was an intense. And when people ask me what it was like in a, in a word, I usually send it up to say it was an intense experience. Nick Hauser: And what did you mean by, you know, people maybe not going at that for you in that corporate environment and why that's so important. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. Yeah. So this is probably the biggest lesson I learned in corporate America. So when I started working, I thought that, you know, if you just did a good job and you were good at your job, then naturally you ascend up the corporate ladder. Right. But I found out pretty quickly that that wasn't the case. Um, you know, if people who are in the higher management positions don't know who you are, then you're pretty much not going to go anywhere if you don't have a senior person who was there saying, yeah, I worked with Cheryl and she did really great on this project or I worked with her and I think she should get this opportunity or I want her to work with me on this project because she did so well on this one. Then if you really, it's almost like you kind of just end up spinning your wheels a little bit. Cheryl Pinkard: So it's the whole, um, you know, what is it the, the old saying of it's not what, you know, it's who, you know. I realized that that is largely true in corporate America as I saw people who were like less qualified and had been there for less time but had made friends with the right people, you know, were able to get farther than, um, than I wasn't a lot of cases. So that was something that was definitely frustrating. So when I say when you don't have someone to go to bat for you, um, you know, if you're in corporate America and that's your jam and you love that, and then you should find somebody who's not just a mentor, but um, we call them a sponsor, somebody who will, you know, in those meetings when they're talking about promotions and raises amongst all the managers, they talk about you in a favorable way and they fight for you to get to get, you know, your advancement. Nick Hauser: Got It. And right before we kind of cut the self to just at a high level for anybody out there, what does like a Goldman Sachs and artist, young guy? No, just like what do those companies do it as far as like, who they help and service. Cheryl Pinkard: Uh, yeah. So that range is, but you know, Goldman Sachs is a full service investment bank. They also do, you know, sales and trading and asset management. They basically help big companies buy and sell other companies. Um, they help companies go public. So they do mergers and acquisitions, right? Like billion dollar companies, things like, um, like the budweiser in Inbev merger that happened a while ago. That's the type of deal that they would work on or the facebook IPO. That's something that Goldman worked on. Um, eye is a big four consulting firms. So there they're also global. They have I think, something like maybe 100,000 employees or something like that across the world. And they, it's a consulting company and an accounting firm. So they do those two things also for big businesses. Capital one, I think most people know them for the, the credit card commercials. Uh, but more recently they've also acquired a commercial bank. That's where I worked. And um, they have, they have acquired retail branches now, so they have like diversified. So all financial services, all mostly helping companies in the B, two b space. There's some consumer B to c in, in most, I guess two of them. But uh, yeah, mostly B to B in financial services. Nick Hauser: Got It. So let's transition now. So you're going through this corporate America initially probably would seem like this is the best thing ever. I'm kind of on the right path. And then you're like, yeah, it was just intense as you described it to seminole up, you saw a face, a Sam a lot on the facebook ads and the consulting accelerator program he joined and then what happened next? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, so I joined, I started going through the course and it was also intense. It was a lot of information all at once and I went through it and uh, I think I finished the first. It was before he did the whole revamp, what the latest version. So I went through it a little over almost three years ago I think. Um, and I love like the mindset part of it and just like scheduling out your day. And um, I love to because I had a really a great structure on, on what to do. So like when you're working for somebody else, even if you don't like love working for somebody else, there's always somebody telling you what to do, right? But then when you go out on your own, it was kind of like, oh, like what am I supposed to be doing with my day? Cheryl Pinkard: So I, so I went through that, digested the information, um, and I had some time to kind of figure things out. So I actually initially put it down for a little while and then I started picking up some facebook specific training and going that route with other things. And then I came back to it a few months later, um, when after I landed, it landed a pretty big client and um, and I was looking to kind of like ramp up and close more, you know, do, you know, close more deals, do more sales. So that I picked it back up and I was like, I need to figure out how to grow this thing. Because I had that one client and it was good, but you know, it was also a scary position because when you have one client who is most of your revenue, then that when they go away it's not so not so fun anymore. Cheryl Pinkard: So I picked it back up and I started going through the, um, the 30 day sprint and um, uh, the, the, the war map, what they like the 30 day plan and just kind of started all over again. So I think what I've seen in the group is like a lot of people kind of pick it up and put it down and have to start over it depending on where they are in, you know, in their business or their journey. Um, so that's what I did. I landed my first big client as a result of what I was doing later that year, um, uh, around Septemberish, uh, and then they've stayed with me for about seven months and then I had to kind of start all over when they left. And then I switched niches and it was a first client, was a financial services client and then switched to a finally landed on real estate and started to really hone down on, on the real estate industry. And that's what I've been focusing on since then. Nick Hauser: Got It. So when you joined, were Cheryl Pinkard: you still working in your corporate job? Yeah, it was right on the cusp of knowing that I was going to leave and uh, probably that that month or so before I left and when I was actually gone. So yeah, there's a little bit of an overlap, but it was towards the end of my full time employment. Nick Hauser: Got It. And then when you know, the first thing we have you do is like our members will know, but anyone else watching because we have you pick a niche and figure out the actual group of people, you're going to help them what their problem is. And you went, you said you went to financial services, which kind of makes sense for where you came from. Is that where you were thinking going in that it was just a natural fit? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and that first client actually found me, so, you know, I put up my, I'm actually just kind of got a click funnels page and did a one page website or a landing page of my website just because I was trying to get stuff up quickly and that client was actually looking for somebody. His words to me were, he was looking for somebody with a financial services background to do his linkedin marketing. So he wanted to do linkedin outreach to reach his target market and you know, set appointments and generate leads, that sort of thing. So niching down, I think a super important because that first client literally told me he was looking for somebody with my background and um, uh, you know, he had the option of looking for somebody who was sort of like a general, like linkedin person. And he went with me instead of that other, that other option because of that. Nick Hauser: Nice. And was that, that client was paying you per month? Yep. And then how much, how much was that first client worth? Cheryl Pinkard: Like promoting that first client? So the initial time for a couple of council, that company, so they were paying $5,000 a month for like five or six months. So, um, made a decent amount of money from, from that first client. Nice. Nick Hauser: And then ultimately you said that the client left after like seven months. What transition now to that? If you had the background in financial services and corporate America and such, and then you were helping this client for awhile and they were paying you good money, why'd you make the pivot to real estate? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, good question. So, so that client, they were kind of like a niche financial services clients, so they, they specialized in donor advised funds and it's basically kind of like a fund that helps a rich people create charitable organizations or like, you know, give philanthropically to for tax benefits. So I didn't really, I didn't really see that as a niche that had a ton of opportunity in terms of it being big enough for me to actually put the resources towards going after, you know, organizations and that uh, in that niche. So, and, and I was kind of done with the linkedin stuff. I still do some of it now, but I was kind of, I was ready to do something different. So I basically changed my offering and change my niche at the same time, which may or may not be advisable. But, um, yeah, once that contract ended, I basically was just trying to figure out where, um, you know, where I could leverage my time more because what the linkedin stuff, you can automate some of it, but a lot of it is, a lot of it is manual, at least the way that I was doing it in order to kind of stay within the parameters of not getting flagged. Cheryl Pinkard: Um, but yeah, so I made the transition just because I was, I was looking for something that I'm a bigger niche basically some thing, you know, a pool of prospects that I knew would never, I'd never run out of um, and I actually left this out. But over the course of probably the last, uh, last year or so that I was working full time, I got my real estate license because it's something that I always wanted to kind of like invest in real estate, but I never really got started. I took a lot of courses on it but never really got started. So I figured let me get my real estate license now in case if I, you know, if I need it to um, you know, if I needed to fall back on, if work doesn't work out and that ended up being the case. So, um, so yeah, so the fact that I also have my real estate license helped with that transition to the next niche. Nick Hauser: And you mentioned like right at the start of the call also a little bit now to just real estate, you know, what's interesting about real estate to you and what really piqued your interest from yes, your business and like what niche you're going to pick standpoint, but also just personally, you know, while you were into it. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So I think probably the driving horse does that. My father was into real estate so he worked sort of like on the development side and um, and I was exposed to that as an early age, like I would go to work with him on the weekends and like hang out in his office and it Kinda got to see what he did and then just in and learning more about real estate. Like I said, I read, I was reading Rich Dad, poor dad in high school and trying to figure the whole thing out. Just realizing what a tremendous wealth building vehicle it is, whether you're, you know, an investor or owner in it. Um, it was something that was attractive to me just because of the, like the massive earning potential that you can have, you know, and there's so many different segments within real estate and real estate investing that the opportunities are really endless in terms of what you can do with it. So that was, that was what peaked my early interest in it. Nice. Nick Hauser: When you said you gotTa have your licenses, you mean like as a real estate agent? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, yeah. I'm a licensed real estate agent in the state of New York. Nick Hauser: So once you did that and then you kind of chose like, I'm going to make this pivot. Real estate's been an interest of mine for awhile. My Dad did it really worth it. I got the license now. Like what'd you do next? Like, how did you know where to go or who? Because you said there's a lot of different segments in there. Who did you really go for and how did you start finding these people? Talking to them, understanding their biggest challenge is to make a good product and service for them. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So I actually, I went back to Linkedin, so I started building up the things that I was doing for my clients. I had actually started doing it for myself. So I went to linkedin and started building up a database of real estate agents and, and um, kind of connections and just started messaging them and um, you know, did the research. I knew, I knew a lot of it, I guess intrinsically of like what the struggles were. But I still went through the exercise of talking to people, so that was really the first, the first resource that I used was linkedin to just make those connections and start to have conversations with people. Men Get strategy sessions scheduled. Nick Hauser: So what would that process look like as far as like, would you connect with them just in a house, in the research part of it, when you're understanding like how did it systematically you go about doing it and then what did some of those conversations look like to get somebody to open up to you? Like who might be a stranger and the reach out? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So yes, I would just connect with people like crafted, you know, sort of like a canned message, but it would have their name on it, you know, like, Hey meg, I noticed that uh, you're in, into real estate industry, would love to connect with something like, pretty basic like that. And then once they would connect, then I basically started messaging sequence for that towards them just asking, you know, if they had a couple of minutes to speak. I just wanted to talk to them about like their business and what they're doing for lead generation and I'm on my linkedin profile. It basically said that, you know, I helped her, it had my help statement on there so people knew pretty much what I was reaching out for. And you know, real estate agents are independent contractors, right? They, they eat what they kill as I say, like in sales. So they're always looking for ways to get more leads and get more business. So I found that a lot of them were, were pretty willing to talk to me about what they were doing Nick Hauser: and how did you know like what to do to get them more leads, like what your service was going to be. Did you have that first or did you go speak to them, understand their problems and then say, hey, you know what, this might be a good vehicle to help them get more of those leads. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, so I, I had the vehicle because at that point I had studied a lot of different facebook ad advertising courses and then I started taking some like initial niche specific facebook ad advertising training and kind of got hooked up with a, with a coach and the and the facebook ad space who um, uh, his name is James, remember he runs a, a, like a million dollar, a digital agency focusing just on real estate. So I'm so in developing those relationships with him, I was able to see how he does it now he runs, runs his business and was able to sort of model that. So, so I basically had the solution going in, um, but I just, I still wanted to get the feedback directly from the market so then I can then go back to those people and, and you know, or you know, uh, basically transitioned them into a strategy call to talk to them more about how I could help them. Nick Hauser: So who do you help now? Like, you know, what is your, I said in the beginning, who is like, what's your statement? If somebody said, you know, as you're like, what, what is it you do know, what would you say to them? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So, uh, I help real estate teams and agents close more deals and get more business using facebook lead generation and conversion strategies. So basically helping agents close more deals with, uh, with facebook ads. Nick Hauser: When you say real estate teams, like what do you mean? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So in the real estate world there are different sort of business model, so there's the independent or the solo agent that somebody who, you know, all the, all agents or brokers work for themselves, but that's somebody who is on their own. They're not really working with anybody else in terms of generating leads. So, but a team, a team, we'll have a team leader and then other agents on that team. So you could have a theme of, you know, um, anywhere from at least two people to, you know, 20 or 40 or whatever. And they tend to like the team leaders. A lot of times we'll provide support and infrastructure. So some, if somebody is not working, somebody doesn't like working on their own, they can still have that sort of um, you know, jobs not job but like team environment but still be working for themselves. So the team leaders will provide lead or provide training or um, you know, they'll help with uh, like their help them craft their marketing and that sort of thing. So, so a team is just sort of like a, the company model of a, of a real estate agent, so to speak, and a lot of brokerages, well, uh, are based on like the team model. So having one person create a team and you know, expansion teams and that sort of thing. Nick Hauser: Got It. And then, you know, at a high level of kind of structurally what is it you help them do as far as get leads with facebook and then close more deals. Like how does that look? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So, um, so basically we start, I usually like to start people. So the thing with real estate is a lot of listings are sort of like the name of the game, right? Everybody wants to listings it because they, they feel like it's easy. And if you have a listing that's basically, it basically means that somebody who wants to sell their home, they've signed the contract with you to allow you to represent them, to sell their home. Right? So everybody wants that because it's almost like they feel like it's guaranteed money. Um, but really with a, with, with leads, it's almost like it doesn't really matter if it's a buyer or seller lead. There's one in every four, so buyer leads as a seller lead as well. So I try to focus on getting them leads rather than designating buyer versus seller leads. So we set up a campaign, um, it's to, you know, to attract either buyers or sellers, but really the leads can end up being one or the other. Cheryl Pinkard: And a lot of times we start with, um, building up their data. So I'm using facebook custom audiences. So a lot of times people will have data that they're not even using on facebook on their business page. So if an aiden has a ton of videos on their page and we'll create custom audiences from those videos and then create look alike audiences from those videos because they are there, it's warmer traffic than just doing something like a targeted list where you're doing the core audience is like um, so like the people who are like half families are living in a certain location, that sort of thing. So we start basically by building up data or using their current customer list to create custom and lookalike audiences. Let me start with lead generation campaigns. So a primarily use the lead form with a lot of clients because facebook tends to reward you for keeping the transaction within facebook rather than sending the traffic outside of facebook. Cheryl Pinkard: And then we usually tie the lead generating the lead, but it's also starting to re create the conversation because leads are fine, but conversations, that's really where you get the return, right? Can't sale doesn't happen unless you're starting to talk to somebody. So we have messenger about tied in to start to create the conversation. So I'll ask the lead question. Qualifying questions like when are you looking to move, what's your price range, what's your credit score like? And then that seat Bot sequence all culminates in asking them to schedule time to speak with the client. So we link it to like a calendly or acuity link and they can actually go in and schedule time to talk with the agent before the agent has even had to step in and actually have a conversation with someone. Um, so it's really getting people from the point of like dead cold traffic to somebody who has made all these little micro commitments and now they're saying they want to talk to you. So it's warming up before, um, before they get to that end result. Nick Hauser: Got It. I think just the, the video cut out right at the important point that you said facebook. And then, um, I think, you know, you said Chat Bot in front of you listening. So basically they fill up the lead gen form and then in an automated Bot via messenger will ping them and it'll pop up and it'll start a conversation sequence where if the prospect starts answering more questions will be asked eventually leading to that book time kind of you as you finished there. Yeah, exactly. Yep. And then do you help the agents or teams, you know, do you help them with the sales aspect of things, like any kind of coaching and consulting on that? Are they, do you bring them just the most qualified leads and then it's from there, their job to close them? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So right now it's mostly the front end on the lead side. Um, and I do, I do coaching around that because handling, handling Internet leads is a different beast than I think a lot of agents tend to be used to. So a lot of agents, they built their bit late, they say they'll put, they've built their business on referrals or you know, direct mail or something like that. But with the Internet leads, it's very much a numbers game, like any type of lead. But it takes a lot more nurturing and warming up to convert those leads and a lot of times people follow. I always tell people like, generating leads, that's the easy part, but the followup is really where you make the return on your investment and if you're not willing to follow up, then don't even like start to generate leads because you're in it. You're just kind of wasting your money if you're not willing to make those eight to 10 plus a touches to, to get somebody on the phone or to get somebody out to see a home or, you know, to get the listing appointment Nick Hauser: from the real estate point of view. What is the problem with direct mail? Cheryl Pinkard: Um, I don't think there's necessarily a problem with direct mail, but I think anytime you're doing direct mail, you need a large budget, right? You can't mail 100 pieces or a thousand pieces at one time and expect to be done. You have to have a campaign so that there's not really a problem with it. It's just the fact that it takes a lot more money to be successful with it. And it works, people get leads from direct mail, but I honestly, I think it's an outdated way of marketing to folks because I have a stack of, I probably should have had it, what wasn't good. I have a stack of direct mail from real estate agents was probably this thick and I just, I save it as, because I'm eventually going to use it start anyway if I haven't gotten around to it, but they send those postcards and it's just sort of like blanketed to everybody, right? Cheryl Pinkard: It's kind of like the every door direct mail strategy and they don't know that I'm a real estate agent. I'm not going to use a real estate agent to sell to buy a house if I want to buy a house or you know, till Tillis my, uh, my condo. So it's just going out to everybody. It's not super targeted. Um, and it's really expensive and you can't really, a lot of people, you're not really able to measure the return on it unless you're having those specific codes are specific phone numbers for them to respond to. I'm. So to me it's just like the return is so low for the investment and the time it takes to start to produce results. But like I said, like I always say anything works if you, if you work it right, if you do it long enough, you put enough money into it. If you know the strategy well there's some people who love it, but it's not some, it's not a strategy that I would put a whole lot of time and effort into and money into. Nick Hauser: Yeah. Just through one of those yesterday. Yeah. It sounds like, were you going to come in with all this is your method of attracting more of these leads and ultimately more sales for them on their own is it's more cost effective, more measurable, more highly targeted. So overall just more efficient and gets the job done quicker and faster versus male, well may work and they have the right strategy stuff. It's harder to track more money, slower. Makes Sense. And just before we transitioned to um, you mentioned that buyers and seller leads can kind of be the same sometimes. Like what did you mean by that? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So a lot of times if somebody is looking to buy a house as particularly like in certain price ranges are neighborhoods there, if somebody who's already a homeowner, so you know, I'm looking to, I'm looking to buy a house in the next town over, but I'm currently a homeowner so I'm a buyer lead, but I'm also, you know, a seller, a seller as well, so, and I might need, I probably need to sell my house before I can buy a new one or at least have those transactions having happened somewhat simultaneously. Um, so it's more so focusing on getting people who are interested in talking to you into your funnel, into your pipeline rather than focusing on, I only want this type of lead because I think it's a limiting way of looking at your market because what you really want to do is you want to be the dominant agent in that market, right? Cheryl Pinkard: You want to be, I'm the president. You want to be everywhere. And it also made to do that is with facebook. You know, you can essentially become like the local market expert. Um, and that way people are coming to you either way whether they want to buy herself, um, but there are some agents who like, they only want to work with listing leads and only want to work with buyer leads. Um, and that's fine, but I usually tell them, you know, it's, it's, uh, you're limiting your opportunities by only focusing on one side of the deal or the other. So, but that's just my perspective of other, other people ever. Agents have different. They're their own philosophy on it. Nick Hauser: Yeah, that makes sense. So like, absolutely just people who were overall had the interest in like the hunger to move somewhere, right? If they have to move, right, because they're tied to the physical location there right now they have to sell eventually. So if they get in touch with, you know, like one of your clients, then they're more likely to convert some kind of deal or no deal if they exploded somebody. Yep, exactly. Now how did you go about landing some of these first clients in real estate? Cheryl Pinkard: Uh, yeah. So the, the first real estate client that I landed was actually a result of being part of a group that specializes in facebook advertising for real estate. So now it was actually a course that I purchased and I'm the core space it talks about, it's for agents and agencies. So, you know, when I got my, um, uh, when I was posting in a group, actually got an. It's funny. So I'll back up. So before the hat, the first client that I got was I, I'll say client and quotes and then explain the first client I got found me on facebook because he was looking for like real estate, facebook lead generation. Um, so I close that client, got the contract, got the contract signed, like met with them in person, like, you know, old school, went out to his broker agent, went out, went out and got the contract signed and I posted in that group about it. Cheryl Pinkard: And then as a result, somebody messaged me and then they want it to be like, Hey, I'm, I'm generating leads for, for my team. And I liked, you know, some help doing facebook ads. So, um, so fast forward that first, the contract that I posted about, that guy actually backed out of that contract and never paid me, so he didn't end up becoming a client, but because I signed that client and posted about it like in the moment that sparked somebody else to reach out to me. So that was really my first client from, from that facebook group, um, and then after that I started to do and to use a, an event marketing strategy. So I'm have another coach, her name's Gina Pool. She has a strategy where she basically teaches you how to get multiple clients at one time using some sort of an event. Cheryl Pinkard: Right? So whether it's like a trade show or like a, like a business networking group or whether you're hosting your own workshops and trainings. Um, so I followed her model in terms of starting to create my own workshops. So, uh, so I mark, I set up a date for workshop, I marketed it to real estate agents. I got about 20 people in the room and that first workshop I closed by people in that, in that workshop. So, so that started to become a big client acquisition tool for me. Um, and then the next one I raised the price and then I closed three people and then I have another one coming up in January that I'm, that I'm trying to fill up now in marketing now. So from a, actually from the, the second workshop that I did, that's actually also sparked other opportunities. So, um, so it's like something really cool happens when you teach people what you know how to do, right? Cheryl Pinkard: So you're automatically the expert. You're automatically the authority in the room and nobody's questioning you as to whether or not you know what you're talking about it you can get results. They're not asking you for like, case studies and testimonials. It's just kind of like, I see what you can do. Can you help me? Can you help me do it? Um, so one client, one person who came to my second worship actually signed up as a client and she introduced me to her brokerage and then I was able to go into her brokerage and do a lunch and learn presentation. Um, and then from that lunch and learn presentation to more people signed up as clients and then that brokerage now wants to work with me in terms of doing some branding and strategy work and in recruitment work for them and a client to came to that lunch and learn and signup is now referred me to another client. So it's just like the opportunities just keep snowballing from being positioning yourself as, you know, as the authority figure and teaching people and, and being a resource. So, um, so, so that's been really a game changer for me in terms of acquiring clients. Nick Hauser: Yeah, that's cool. Kind of like word of mouth and you know, working and stuff. When you were at like marketing those, those events, are you doing that on facebook or is that offline? Cheryl Pinkard: Uh, at the, uh, email marketing actually for, for the most part to fill up the events. So I do a cold email and that's the way I filled out probably like 98 percent of my events ironically. Um, you know, agents get inundated with email, but if you have a message that kind of cuts through then, then they'll respond to you and I'm, so I use a combination of email, cold email marketing and then I had an appointment set call to follow up on the emails because like we all tell our clients if we're in marketing I'll hope is important. So at you have to take your own advice with that when you're marketing your own stuff too. Um, and then, and that was the way that I feel most of them, I did use facebook ads a little bit. I sold a couple of your facebook ads, but I was trying to do it really on a shoe string budget and like prove that I didn't need to like spend a whole lot of money to get it done. So, um, so yeah, primarily cold email but also some facebook, some word of mouth. Nick Hauser: Good. That's smart to start there with. Is this all local, these events you're doing or is it other people like is there were agents of you're reaching out to, are they local as well? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. Yeah. So, so far all local. So I'm in a, I'm in Brooklyn in New York City, so the first time I did it it was in queens and then the second time I did a workshop in Manhattan, um, then did one in Jersey City and the next one I'll do it will be in, in Manhattan, so it's all, it's all local so far. But I've been thinking about, you know, as I travel kind of matching up my travel schedule with a, uh, with a workshop and, and try and get out that way and kind of taking the show on the road so to speak. But so far all, all local within New York and New Jersey. Nick Hauser: Do you think in that market, because that's where I grew up in everything and I know a little bit about it is that you think that there's, there's a massive pain because there's so much competition among the agents. There's so many properties to be, you know, sold and bought that they experience a large problem if they don't have all those things that you helped them do. Like in order because the people were crushing it and doing really well, they're so far ahead and since there's so many properties and stuff, they can just keep gobbling them up. And the smaller person who doesn't have these strategies to get new leads, they're just like you. They're really left out to drivers Nick Hauser: maybe somewhere else. If they didn't have that stuff, they can get away with selling some things. Would you agree with that based on your observations and working with them? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, definitely. So like you said, the people who are crushing it, they're so far ahead right there, like the Ryan started hands who have their own TV shows and you know, the million dollar listing guys. But there are something like 57,000 agents just in like the five boroughs in and around New York City. So there's tons of competition. But um, there are really, well I guess with anything, only a few people who are really at the top. And I think there's a, almost like a misnomer that you have to be one of those like celebrities in order to do well. But the, I think the awesome thing about facebook is you can basically market you, you have your own TV show, your own TV channel is channel, it's actually on facebook. So like leveraging video and ads and different strategies. You can become that local celebrity in your market and become the goto person and um, you know, do just as well as the people who are, you know, have their own TV shows on Bravo or, or whatever. Um, so yeah, I think if, if they don't have the tools and they don't have a system for prospecting and following up, then they're, they're probably not going to do very well. And um, and that's, that's what you really need. You need a system for prospecting and you need a system for following up and converting the deals. Nick Hauser: And then when you're doing these events as well, when you're signing them up or you like having a presentation or is it a q and a or combination of both. And then at the end you say, hey, if you'd like this information to kind of like what I'm doing, then come speak with me. Or do you book a call afterwards? How does that actually sales process work, you know, when you get the people to this event? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. Good question. So yeah, it's a, it's a half day workshop, so it's four hours and it's um, I'm basically teaching them a whole bunch of stuff that they need to know to do facebook ads and I tell them in the beginning, you know, like, um, you know, some people will usually come up and asked me how I work with clients or if I can help them and I'll let you, I can, I'll talk to you a little bit about that later on in the day. Um, but you know, I'll give you everything. So if you want to take this and do it yourself, you can and if you want some help you can get some help. So then I go through the presentation and then I um, then I pitch, you know, towards the middle end of end of the day. And then if they want to sign up then I put a deadline on it. So, you know, if they sign up that day, then they get x bonus. Um, but I'll bet if they sign up the next day by the end of the day, then they don't get that bonus, but they still get the discounted price. So the Adams, I'm handing out sign up forms, they're signing up right on the spot and filling it out with their all their information and then taking it back and, and you know, targeting their cards and sending them the onboarding documents that I do with that process. So yeah, it's, um, that's, that's pretty much how, how it works. Nice. Nick Hauser: And how do you structure your offer as far as pricing and that is it one off month to month? Cheryl Pinkard: Uh, yeah. So, uh, currently I'm doing a three month, three month commitment and then month to month after that. I'm so it. So, and it really all depends. So this is something also that I, that I've been working on, like segmenting my audience because I've been marketing to agents and like solo agents, independent agents are able to afford one thing, but teams are able to afford something else. Uh, so for the Solo agents that pricing is usually a little bit less, like it'll be like a thousand a month and for the teams a little it'll start at more like $1,550 and up depending on, you know, what they want to do and, and how, like how involved they want to get in and how are, how involved they want me to get in putting together their, their systems and integrating different things like email campaigns and that sort of thing. So Nick Hauser: no, in New York City and that area too. How have you found like an spend to be? Because there's so many people and there's probably a lot of agents also advertising. So have you found you needed more ad spend because there's such a competitive space even online or less because there's such a large pool of people? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, that's a good question. I'm not sure if I haven't really compared it. Well, I do have clients who are outside of New York, so I will say the lead cost in New York tend to be a little bit higher than other places. So I have clients in Pennsylvania and Florida and uh, and like Pencil, my Pennsylvania client, I was able to get some leads for like less than a dollar. But in New York it's used for most of my clients. It usually hovers around like five to $10, sometimes more per lead, but you know, it's a. So I think the lead cost is probably a little bit higher. I don't know if it's because of just the nature of real estate being so much more expensive here or if it's, you know, that there are more people here and, and that a better advertising online or just the, the available audiences are that much bigger and in a shorter condensed I'm territory or is of code. Cheryl Pinkard: But yeah, there will be costs do tend to be a little bit higher. But really, you know, if, if an agent closes one deal then they pay for my marketing for the whole year essentially. So I'm, the lead costs tend to be higher, but you're really, it's almost like a no brainer because the return is so much, so much bigger than a lot of the other marketing efforts. Like I know agents who were spending like $40,000 a month on zillow and not really getting a whole lot from it or you know, buying leads, third party leaves from other sites like and that sort of thing. So, uh, and those territories are expensive too. You'll play, um, sometimes like a thousand bucks for two leads a month on depending on what their zip code is. So it's really, it's like super underpriced for what you can do if you know, if you take the proper steps to make it work. Nick Hauser: Yeah. And immunity agents watching here around the area. I'm sure they're not surprised that something in New York's a little more expensive than everywhere else. Yeah. But if you, like you said like you know, versus what they're doing, it's cheaper than it's really valuable to them because everything is more expensive. Exactly. Yep. Now are you doing all this work all on your own or do you have a team? You mentioned an appointment setter. Do you run the ads or do you have a team you're kind of building around yourself? No. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So, so far I'm doing all the fulfillment, so I'm running all the ads. Um, I do have the appointment setter that I use for filling up the events, um, but that's more of like just like a con on a contractor basis. So, um, so yeah, it's mostly me I hire, I hire out help when I need it in terms of some of the administrative stuff, but since I know that I'm like, I know how to do the ads and I know how to get the results for my clients. That's something that I, that I've been holding onto. Um, but I'll probably start to scale and an outsource at a certain certain important time. But right now I'm doing all the fulfillment. Nick Hauser: A lot of people ask this question to when they are still running the ads and they're trying to grow. How do you structure your day as far as client work? Prospecting, speaking with new potential clients, you know, and then other admin tests just related to your business, the books, accounting, like how do you structure that? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, that's the million dollar question. It goes. I'm still figuring out the answer myself, but I usually like to start today with client work, so I'll go through all the different accounts and look at all the different campaigns that are running and tweak things as I need to or fix things. And usually the first part of the day is that. And then if clients want to speak, then I've usually tried to get that, get those calls scheduled in the morning so that afterwards, then I can work on my own business. So like, you know, marketing, the next small seminar are setting up, you know, prospecting funnels, that sort of thing. Um, and then it's usually after hours I tend to do like the other admin stuff, like all the stuff we didn't get through, get through during the day. Like I'll work on building out. Cheryl Pinkard: I'm like, I don't know, an email campaign for myself or doing my own sort of marketing and that's usually, that usually happens after I've done everything else for our clients. So, um, so it's, it's, and it's something that I struggled with because I don't keep myself strictly to that schedule all the time. So, um, I think like building out processes like, you know, we talked about a lot and in the course helps and having that structure. So I find that when I appear to it, my day goes a lot, well a lot better than when I jump around and try to do, you know, jump from, you know, this thing to this thing. So, so yeah, it's, it's tough. It definitely hurt them in order to keep some sanity, some level of sanity. Nick Hauser: What seems to jump in all the time that throws you off that schedule. Cheryl Pinkard: Um, probably just emails like client emails and um, you know, me like remembering to do like things that I've been putting off that I need to do and just regular distractions and uh, you know, just that's, that's pretty much pretty much it. Um, you know, I think we're all in this sort of sensory overload, so they're always like alerts and pings and things going off that I, that I've tried to reduce the alerts that I get on my phone. I've tried to silence some of them, like the emails now I don't get the email alerts on my phone all the time. I try to chunk my time and like check email, like, you know, maybe once an hour or whatever. Um, but yeah, it's just, you know, there's, I feel like there, there's always somebody pulling at your time. So just figuring out how to, you know, sort of batch your responses to people and, and uh, set out that time dedicated to whatever task you're trying to do at the time. Nick Hauser: Have you ever considered having a fixed time or set expectations upfront with your clients have when you'll be speaking with them so they know and then not that you just don't want to speak to them because you just want to blow them off and like hang out on the beach, but position it as an actual, um, you know, asset to you helping them. Because the more I speak with you, the less I'm actually running your campaign, getting you better results, innovating, trying to make you stand out versus the other, you know, x amount of agents in New York City. Have you ever had that conversation with them versus them being able to always ping you and then throw you off? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, no, that's, that's an awesome question. So I've never had that conversation to that extent, but I have been like in my mind just kicking around, setting up like, you know, like a scheduling link, so if they want to talk and you know, conditioning them so that what they want to talk to me, they go and they just like book a time here and it's less of an interruption to my day and I can do it in a more structured way. So, so yeah, that's, that's an awesome suggestion and something I've been thinking about doing, but it just hadn't actually put it into practice, but I'm sure it would make a big difference if I could, you know, structure the day so that all, all of those things that require this type of energy are done from here to here. And then all the things that require something else or done from this time to this time. So, uh, so yeah, I like that a lot. Nick Hauser: It'll probably massively helped because it's like you always, whenever they think you have to put out a fire and if they know it's Kinda like a professor at a college or university if somebody international internationals while it seems like they have the office hours so they know, like they know that you're still there for them in some sense and they know when they're going to maybe get the report or when they can ask you some questions. But yeah, because those are the, that's the hotter stuff when you're trying to do stuff to either help them or did you try to just grow your own business and they're throwing a new fire at you, like you know, and then you got to go do that and they might take the call, may take x amount of minutes within. You're going to be thinking about it after. Then you might have to do something again for them. And then like you said, like everything else gets lost and when you do stay on that schedule, you've seen your best results. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So then you know, what for you has been like the most transformative part of the accelerator program and working through everything. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. So I'll sound like a broken record from, from most people, but, but it's really the mindset stuff. It's like, you know, the marketing, you can kind of learn that anywhere and a lot of people there different ways to do all, you know, consulting and what and whatnot. But the mindset stuff is really helpful, especially going out on my own because you really have to almost like you become a new person. Um, you know, like the trading says you have to kind of like shake off the old like corporate drone mentality of coming in from this time to this time and doing your job and going home and like shutting off your brain. Um, so really just the, um, I don't know, there, I forget which video it was, but you know, since like Sam went through the same thing, but a lot of us are going through some of the things he sat or like exact things I was thinking like, you know, you know, you have to prospect but instead you're going to go clean your office, are you going to go, you know, do you know, buy office supplies or something like that. Cheryl Pinkard: So I'm just, I guess training yourself to be able to overcome obstacles and, you know, kind of like push through the fear of not wanting to like pick up the phone or not wanting to, you know, get on a sales call or not wanting to do the work that it takes to actually see the results because you can want to succeed all day long by. Right? But if you don't actually take the steps to set yourself up for success, then you're basically just kind of, you know, you're spinning your wheels and you're wishing instead of actually taking action. So, um, everything he talks about in terms of just mindset and just, you know, becoming that person and, and kind of like manifesting that success. That all resonated with me. I'm a quite a bit Nick Hauser: Gerald Pinker, corporate America, Cheryl Pinkernell, entrepreneur, maybe not productivity levels or I'm professor presidents. I have a little more on the personal side, like what's the difference, like, you know, are you happier? What does that to you versus who you were and where you were at with everything and now this new business you have and you know, controlling your time and destiny. Like what does that feel like for you? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, it's um, it's freeing. I would say. I mean, you know, being an entrepreneur comes with its own set of stresses as well. But um, I'd say it's free. Like in corporate America, I, you know, I commuted on the subway, which is not the most glamorous way to get around. And it was, yeah, a up to like an hour each way, sometimes or more depending on if the trains were we're renting, right? Which they never are in New York City. Um, but yeah, commuted every day. You know, in the heat, in the freezing cold, sat in the cubicle, got to the point where I was just kind of like, even like almost like working myself sick, like I developed Sciatica from sitting so long and like had a pinched nerve and it was just like terrible. Just like I had a coworker used to call working in corporate America, a soul sucking job and that's what it felt like. Cheryl Pinkard: I'm just like, you know, no autonomy, you're just, you're just there and you know, you're not really achieving anything towards entrepreneurship where I can see the difference that I make in my clients every day. Like when, you know, when I'm talking to them and they're like, um, you know, one client was telling me, hey, I have a couple. They're looking for one point $6,000,000 condo in the middle of the next year. So that's somebody that he's essentially a premarket lead who responded to the ad that we ran for him. And now there's somebody who's most likely gonna work with him and by, by, with them when they're ready. So actually seeing those results and seeing it make a difference in other people's lives. Um, and then my time, like, you know, I can, I can travel, I can go and, you know, go visit a family member and still be working and I don't have to report to a certain place at a certain time, um, and I can, you know, Kinda just be my own person and I decide how much I'm, I make not some, some 360 degree review based on what people think about me and if they like them or not. Cheryl Pinkard: So, um, I just, I just think the freedom to, to make what you want and do what you want and just design your own life rather than just, you know, fitting into this box that so many of us are just put into and you know, trying to figure a way to get out of. Nick Hauser: That's really cool. Thanks. Five years from now, 10 years since. What's the vision for Your Business? What you want to do with your company you have now and your life? Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, a good question. So, uh, I'd say five years they definitely want to be at a place where, um, you know, at least in the New York market that, um, you know, like the Goto for like, you know, facebook advertising or digital marketing for real estate. I think real estate tends to be really old school industry and you know, there's a lot of still like paper transactions going on and there it's been kind of slow to evolve. But I'm just being like, like at the cutting edge and being a leading voice in the real estate market in terms of a digital marketing and I'm an innovation. I think that would, that would be pretty cool. Um, I've been, I'm a lifelong New Yorker, so I think five years from now I'd probably want to be maybe living someplace else. I've always had a dream of doing the whole digital nomad thing to a certain extent. Like I kind of want to go live in Bali for a little while or do some, some cool travel that way. Um, and you know, just kind of making sure that I'm at, at the point where I have a business that can run without me, that I can, you know, step outside of and be more of like the visionary rather than the practitioner and um, you know, be impactful that way Nick Hauser: you wherever you go, no subways that is, that's the most soul sucking part secretly up on it. It's Cheryl Pinkard: single handedly was the worst part of my day getting waking up and getting on the subway and then at the end of the day getting on the subway, it got to the point where I would like treat myself to like treat myself once a week and take an uber home just so just like for some piece of Pizza Mito cost me like 40 bucks. So it wasn't cheap. But yeah, it's just, yeah, the subway is not, it's not a nice place unless you're traveling like off hours and you're not rush hour and you don't have to be any place at a certain time then it's fine. Whatever. But yeah, not, not an awesome way to start or end. The day Nick Hauser: is, I think it's an interesting conversation too for like owners of companies and stuff because from the like you know, you started to work at nine or for you is seven and then you're saying to on an average day, I don't know, let's say 6:00, 7:00 by the time you actually get to work, you're fried. Because of that, there's like a crazy amount of an only like only commuters would know this like what we're discussing here, but like the amount of stress and in toll it takes and like you know, like you'll hear Sam talk a lot about decision fatigue and the only have a fixed amount of decisions to make the best decisions possible in the day. That's even why some, you know, like I love entrepreneurs like Zuckerberg and stuff. They were the same thing everyday. Like Steve Jobs and by the time you get on those damn trains, you made like thousands of decisions that you don't even know. Nick Hauser: You have bumped into. People who are just probably nasty and like upset there was on the train. Like you, by the time you actually get to work, you're probably like, you know, half your capacity, what you could do if you just woke up and went to work, they'll just ended the conversation because like obviously in an owner of a company wants their employees to perform at the highest level possible to get the maximum output from their inputs. But that train thing, like it doesn't work. I don't know what the problem is. If somebody could figure out how to solve that problem, just like at a canoe, but still keep everyone together like anything with virtual reality where people can just like show up on a Hologram, that'd be pretty great. Like Star Wars, that's my person, not because I, I went to and it's a pain in the ass. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah. It's like you're right, 100 percent. Like I would get to work and I'd feel like I worked a full day before I even did anything because of like, like you said, the energy meditates. So just the fatigue and. Yeah. So yeah. So I actually have a coworking space. No, so it's funny. All I ever wanted to do was work from home when I was in the nine to five, but now that I can work from home, I actually rented an office in a coworking space and I go there and I find that I'm like super productive. I've actually picked up a client from that who also works in the same cohort in space. So, um, so it's, it's funny, like the thing that I wanted to do most, it's now the thing that I don't do as much now that I can, you know, I can do whatever I want to do. So. So it's an interesting transition that happens. Yeah. Nick Hauser: Yeah. Only only a computer and understand what we're discussing. There's a lot of them out there, so hopefully they're like, where they're like none of the resident and like get it. These people get it. What would your number one piece of advice be for other members of the consulting accelerator program? Cheryl Pinkard: Uh, yeah. So I'd say just in short, don't give up. Um, you know, it's easy to get started and then you hit roadblocks and then you feel like, oh, like maybe this isn't for me or maybe I can't do it, but if you pushed through like really like hone in on that mindset training, if you haven't gone through all of it, it's definitely worth it to go through it at least once a multiple times, but you really have to condition yourself and you know, make a decision and a commitment that you're going to, you know, succeed no matter what. And then just keep going like it's okay if you know, stuff happens. If a client contract, if a client backs out of you and they signed the contract, like you can, like money is abundant, right? You can always get more money. You can always sign more clients don't take every like six no setback or failure as you know, this is the end of it. So I would say just, you know, just Nick Hauser: he did say, well I don't know that I phrased this now. It cut out just, I'm just, when you said like it's not the end of the world for anyone who is a client leaves or something. Cheryl Pinkard: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So basically just like keep going and also um, community I think is important stories or other entrepreneurs, whether it's virtually like with the consulting community, um, you know, getting around other like minded people who understand what you're going through and can help lift you up when your dad or you know, encourage you and celebrate your wins and your successes with you because that's something that's, uh, that's important too. Nick Hauser: There's a leg of the thing. So you were staring and talking. Yeah, you're still here. It might be a little lag, but let's just, we only have one more question anyway, just to close out. Where can people find out more about you if they're interested in learning more? If they were like an agent or have a team? Cheryl Pinkard: Uh, yeah. So you can email me by email. Is Cheryl at dividend digital? So that's d I v I d e n d d I g I t a or he'd go to my website. It's dividend Whenever I'm hosting workshops, if they're just attending a workshop that are rail is fb, so f, like phase be like book, workshop, Dot Net. And that will always have the latest information on when the next workshop is. So uh, so yeah, those are the best ways to reach me. Nick Hauser: Awesome. Yeah, it's just a little delayed so. Yeah. But it was awesome speaking with you. A really cool story and dry. I think it's going to jump into the Corporate America thing too because I think there still are a good amount of people. They, they think it's the right path and there's nothing right or wrong, but it just what's closer to the truth. And I just, I've seen personally to a lot of people they think like the Goldman Sachs job is the best thing ever for some people may be when they start out, but once they keep going on then I've seen a lot of people find what you found too. So it's ingenuity here, like what that was like and kind of how you took a different option and how it's working out really well for you and how you also use that as a positive or to help you with your journey here. Nick Hauser: And you know there's a great piece of advice like never don't let one thing be like this at the end because you can always go out and like you have no other option, right? You can cry about it for a little bit of but not even. It's too much credit for too much. Somebody else was calling another prospect on the phone. So it was great speaking with you and look forward to seeing your success here. And if we can just manage up the time, you're going to really go even further and eventually we can get you into like a, a program and scaling out to then you wouldn't have to do as much. You could be the advisors to some of these people to do some of these strategies you mentioned, like the events you could teach them how to do the marketing, follow up, all that kind of stuff. So they really cool stuff. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, no, go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. Nick Hauser: Yeah, I just don't know. It was um, I think it froze again. I was just gonna say that at least it happened at the end here. Cheryl Pinkard: Yeah, I was just going to say that's the next step. Like people are actually starting to ask me if I have a, a course or if I do coaching. So I'm actually starting to like, you know, consult with people who don't want done for you, but they just, you know, they want help and the strategy and that sort of thing. So it's interesting you say that because it's almost like the natural progression. It's what people started to ask me about, so yeah, definitely looking forward to building out that part of the business too. Nick Hauser: It's cool because it also. It opens up the market to you like the done for you as needed to have the knowledge to build a course. Right, but because it's only usually a one off fee, then they still get all the same information the way it is more on them and you're there because you can troubleshoot because you did have your hands dirty already, but also more people can afford it because even if it is like a $6,000 program, they can still invest in that. It's one time versus having to know they have to pay you even though you probably getting them return anyway, but some people when you say it's going to be like two grand a month from my management fee, they just keep sending every single month I got to pay this thing and it opens up the market for people at different levels. As you said, you're helping now to just everyone for one offer reduces your complexity, your actual time to service them. You'd have fixed q and a calls where they would come on and ask the questions when they need an IV versus just emailing you like crazy and then ruining everything. But yeah, it's all good. It's natural. I think where you're going in is in the right direction for sure. So again, it was great speaking with you and um, you know, we've already a success moving forward. All right. Thanks Mike. Appreciate it. Nick Hauser: Sure. See you later. Bye. Have a good one. Bye.