side blade kicks

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by TheDudeAbides, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. TheDudeAbides

    TheDudeAbides Valued Member

    Last night I learned a side blade kick. I can do it poorly but as a beginner it's to be expected. I didn't get the chance to ask my sensi about methods for improvement. Last night was sparring right after the group class and I didn't want to hold everyone up and there was a line of folks to speak with our instructor. As a result I didn't get a chance to ask about methods to practice at home. I won't have another class until Thursday.

    I can maintain a good base and balance to about groin height with my right leg and a bit higher with my left. My form isn't bad but might be called a good mediocre. What are some things that would help my noviceness for improving both height/flexibility while improving and maintaining my form? I'm not expecting an overnight miracle but I always feel better going in with a plan rather than practicing something the same way when it's not quite right.
  2. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    My instructors didn't recommend beginners to practice at home. If you aren't 100% sure about your technique it may just ingrain bad habits.
    For flexibility you may want to take a look at Van Zandt/Redcoat's threads, they're stickies in the flexibility forum.
  3. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    No beginner is 100% sure about their technique. Quite frankly I'd rather run the risk of a student practicing it poorly for a couple of days, but practicing it, than a student whose only time spent on their practice was in the classroom.
  4. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    For terminology's sake, is this a side kick where you are hitting with the blade edge of the foot? Do your instructors allow you to counterbalance by leaning your upperbody away? Are they teaching you to rotate your hip into it or is more of a snap? This will matter with advice about how to develop height to your kick.

    As a side note, that (blade edge) kick is a great way to break or sprain an ankle if you hit a solid object with it, it has some use for low targets, but usually if you are throwing a side kick I would recommend you hit with your heel.
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Slow motion kicks. Do slow motion kicks almost every workout. Focus on proper form as you do them. And not putting your foot down.

    Assuming you have all these in your style, and have learned them, Front snap kick, side blade kick, rear kick as one round.

    I just started dedicating myself to them and am seeing improvements. Wish I had done so years ago as my school encourages us to do.

    They are not the most fun part of training, but you do sort of get into it once you make up your mind to do them regularly.
  6. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I would recommend OP doesn't let MAP users convince him to do the kick differently than his instructor.

    It is a viable kick, my style has it as do many other styles. You just need to understand proper targets for it.
  7. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    Agreed, which is why I was asking about how the instructors set the sideboards on the technique.

    But I view part of the forum mission is to educate and to propogate good information, I happen to think that particular kick is often misused and potentially dangerous the way I have often seen it taught. The student can take my advice or leave it, the individual is responsible for their development as a practitioner. I have probably produced alot of advice on these forums that runs contrary to what some instructor said, I don't have any regrets with that regard.
  8. TheDudeAbides

    TheDudeAbides Valued Member

    So what I was shown started at a front horse and then a gate step to a side horse with hands at guard then bringing the knee up to a crane stance rotating slightly inwards curling the toes in basically making a fist out of my foot. Next rotating the foot back towards the outside and finish at full extension. The end goal was not for the snap or power just a goal to build form and balance looking to land a kick in the abdominal area near or on the bottom rib. Then repeat by getting back to front horse and change to the other side.

    With regard to practice at home my sensei recommends it. He suggests at least 5 minutes of practice with any new technique from the last class attended. He recommends 5 minutes per day with every step kempo combination block and pinion we know. Each time he teaches something weather it is to a white belt, though I've only seen 1 besides myself or to a black belt he makes a point to remind you 1,000 , 5,000, 10,000 it is the practice that causes improvement. Your first 1,000 will be okay by the time you have reached 5,000 kicks you will be better and 10,000 you should be skilled at that punch kick kempo or whatever it happens to be.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Another thing, Can you practice in front of a mirror? And/ or have someone tape your kicks for you to review them? That way, you can maybe see what can be improved instead of just going by feeling.

    And, of course, have your instructor take a look at it- one on one- and ask for specific advice.
  10. TheDudeAbides

    TheDudeAbides Valued Member

    The mirror is a yes. I do in fact have a mirror for practice. Until I snag a heavy bag or a bob I try to work on accuracy by targeting my soft spots in the mirror. The camera not so much. I do plan to go over it Thursday night if there is time. If not I'll hit on it during my solo lesson on Saturday morning. I've been hitting 3 group and 1 private class per week. Then I spend 1-2 hours on my non class nights trying to improve with what I have been shown already.

    Is the flexibility for this coming more from the hip the obliques/abs or the quads/thigh area?
  11. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    To improve flexibility for a side kick stand square to the target with foot on floor. Lift into a high tuck with the knee pointing at the target. Then try to bring the knee of the kicking leg across your body as close as possible to the opposing shoulder while leaving the hips square to the target. Then extend into the kick with the knee driving one way and the hip driving the other. As you do this you rotate your body so you hips and shoulders are facing at 90 degrees to the target. You should end up looking at the target down the shoulder on the kicking side. The shoulder, hip, knee and ankle are all in a straight line. If you have a central stripe on the side of your trousers you should be able to sight straight down it to the target. After striking the target remember to Rotate back, tuck back, then place the kicking foot back on the floor where it started from. Just in case you feel like kicking them more than once.

    I am totally with Blindside both on his original comment and his justification of his original comment (not that any justification was necessary). In my personal experience it is only at low angles chopping downward at up to 45 degrees towards the floor where there is any benefit gained from angling the foot into a blade. At angles above 45 degrees to the floor i get more effect with the heel. This said I do have over-rotating / hyper-mobile angle joints so it might not be the case for everyone.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  12. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    I have done this kick for a few years technicaly correct. Today I learned a new way to train it and why I might use it.
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    A guy much more flexible than me I noticed had good side kicks. He told me to work on doing the splits. The secret was to rotate the feet forward as I stretched forward with my chest.

    I don't know why it helps. It must work muscles that normally I don't stretch or use. Anyway, it is strange to me because the foot position I use for side kick has my toes slightly up with the back foot pointing to the rear like the following (kind of opposite of the stretch):


    or more like this too:


    I use minimal hip rotation and step through the target. The chamber is the same for roundhouse kick, side kick, and heel kick so it doesn't telegraph which kick is coming.

    Training the kick is like this:

    [ame=""]Sidekick Training - YouTube[/ame]

    Here is it applied in the ring (called side-teep):

    [ame=""]Samart Payakaroon: The "Thai Side-Kick" - YouTube[/ame]

    Although I was taught the following way and used it a lot, I do NOT use side kick like the following any more:

    [ame=""]BEST BRUCE LEE Powerful Kick Kicking Heavy Bag & Shield w POWER Speed Sliding Side Sidekick - YouTube[/ame]

    Notice the different where the hand and elbow is with Bruce Lee's kick compared to the side-teep I like to use better.

    As for striking with the edge of the foot, I've seen a small guy kick like that under the chin of an opponent a foot taller than him. I think that kick under the chin worked well. I know they teach side kick striking with the edge of the foot to the ribs, I don't really know how reliable that kick is.

    Sorry to temporarily hijack the thread. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  14. TheDudeAbides

    TheDudeAbides Valued Member

    Thanks, all of the above helps. I worked at it for about 20 minutes last night. I was wobblier than when I was the first time but it was later into my practice. My thighs were already pretty whooped from jump rope, 5 minutes of snake guard and 5 minutes of front ball kicks and a 3 punch kempo. All in all I didn't start practicing it until about an hour into my evening workout. Mostly because I wanted to spend a longer period of time at it because it's new so I stuck it in at the end right before I switch to some free weights.
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Try to practice your new stuff when you're fresh. Practice of new mechanics are all about instilling proper execution and that works better when you're not already fatigued in some way.
  16. TheDudeAbides

    TheDudeAbides Valued Member

    I have talked it over with my instructor at my private lesson on Saturday. He put me on to a couple of things he said should help. There were two stretches he recommended. One was a nearly double wide horse stance with one foot rotated 90 degrees and then hands at guard. Then using the hip flexor rotate which deep into the stance and hold it keeping the knees above the foot but no further than the toes. The other stretch was a seated stretch that had one leg out straight and the other bent at the knee and crossed over the straight thigh with a goal of being able to hook the opposing elbow in front of the knee and rotate just above the hip to hold the stretch.

    I am also thinking that my overall accuracy will get a boost as well. I have been scouring craigslist several times a week for a heavy bag and came across Bob instead. It was in great shape and about 1/3 retail price so I swooped up on it. Now I just need to figure out what to do with all the TKD sparring gear that is too small for me that was included in the deal.

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