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[–]newt02 24 points25 points ago

Yeah, I had stepped on a nail at work and had to go go the emergency room, I was supposed to get a tetanus shot but the doctor decided not to "because you should have gotten the shots at school last year" (when I graduated) and all I received was my foot being cleansed, a band-aid on it and a ~$700 bill for the entire thing, luckily workman's comp covered it but still, I don't much like how unreasonable the entire experience was.

[–]N4pkins 19 points20 points ago

I scratched my cornea once, went to the emergency room in quite a bit of pain, not knowing what was causing it.

In a 15 minute time-span, the doc gave me an eyedrop of topical anesthetic for my eye, and told me it was scratched.

By the end of the visit, it was wearing off, and I asked for another drop before I left the hospital, and he replied "I already put it away".

Two weeks later I received a few bills totaling ~$2,700... for 15 minutes.

[–]Nasreth 9 points10 points ago

I was in a roll over car accident 3 years ago. My hand was trapped outside the car. It was mauled up badly and they couldn't stitch anything. After the CT Scan and lots of morphine. Four days in the hospital. My bill was over $23,000. The CT Scan alone was $9,000. And they said that was with the cash payer discount. Its all good though. The accident wasn't my fault, but I'm sure his insurance company freaked out when they saw that bill. When everything was said and done i had a new car and 23k in my pocket.

[–]Psycon 12 points13 points ago

So what you're trying to say is we should all get injured in car accidents in order to put pressure on auto insurance companies to use their massive corrupt lobbying power to implement restrictions on healthcare costs?

I like it!

[–]arandur3 1 point2 points ago

It doesn't really work like that. Speaking for PA, anyways, auto insurance companies only pay a small percentage of what you would pay out-of-pocket. Yup, that's right - they pay drastically less just because they're the insurance company. Out of 23k, they'd probably only pay something around 6-7k, which is chump change to them.

[–]Psycon 0 points1 point ago

Wow, that's ridiculously unjust, though sadly not surprising.

[–]RavianGale 0 points1 point ago

It risks human life, but this actually works.

[–]Shadycat 1 point2 points ago

I fractured two vertebrae four years ago. Luckily, they didn't require surgery. I was in the hospital for a total of eight hours. Four hours were just waiting for them to find a back brace. They performed a CT scan, but again, no surgery. I also received a bill for $23,000.

Unfortunately, I did not have insurance. (I loudly proclaimed this and begged for them not to do anything expensive as I was wheeled into the emergency room.) I learned to avoid calls from 800 numbers. I no longer receive credit card offers in the mail. (I'm happy about that, actually.) I pay cash for rent and don't know what I'd do if I had to move. One look at my credit would get my application tossed.

[–]Maxentius22 2 points3 points ago

Stuff disappears from your credit after 7 years IIRC.

[–]Shadycat 1 point2 points ago

That's what I thought, and that's what I'm waiting for. Three years to go!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

They can technically sue you and still come after you though. Good luck!

[–]SpectreFire 1 point2 points ago

Christ... seeing how much you people pay for medical fees makes the cost for dental work in Canada seem a whole not reasonable...

[–]Kuplex 1 point2 points ago

Holy crap. I scratched my cornea about a month back. My optometrist saw me a total of 3 times, I got the steroid and pain relieving drops I needed from her, and got the prescription antibacterial drops I needed from CVS. I paid a $20 copay that covered all 3 visits and only paid $8 for the antibacterial drops.

[–]BetaAlphaBeta 1 point2 points ago

I was bit by a stray cat I was trying to capture (neuter and release). The total bill without insurance would have been ~$35,000. The hospital attempted to bill $23,000 for the 3 shots of rabies immunoglobulin I received. Even after insurance the hospital managed to fuck up my bill to the tune of an extra $890, and now that it's all resolved I'm still stuck with $1,200 in bills.

Before anyone tells me I should have been wearing PPE - I was. The cat managed to pierce the leather gloves I was wearing along a seam on the palm.

[–]MeatballWizard 1 point2 points ago

I'd probably bite you too if you were going to catch me and cut off my nuts LOL Seriously though that's a good service you are doing. There are way too many stray cats, basically an invasive species and they do a lot of damage to native wildlife.

[–]jobrody 0 points1 point ago

My nearly identical experience came with a bill for $2300.

[–]newt02 0 points1 point ago

dang, guess I was somewhat lucky then, but still a $700 foot wash really doesn't feel justified..

[–]DiscoCarp 82 points83 points ago

After reading that article ... I feel ill.

Dr. Warren Browner, the chief executive officer of California Pacific Medical Center, said that there were good reasons that hospitals charged what they did: [...] They charge paying or well-insured patients more to compensate for others they treat at a loss.


California Pacific Medical Center’s main campuses spent 1.27 percent of their more than $1.1 billion in net patient revenues in 2011 on free care for indigent or uninsured patients, lower than the state average of 2.07 percent,

Ahh. I see.

[Dr. Warren Browner again:] “We take every penny of the revenue we earn and use it to build new and better facilities for everyone in the city.”


California Pacific, Sutter’s main campus, [...] has just broken ground on a $2.7 billion renovation, which includes a new flagship hospital [...] with all private rooms, underground parking and roof gardens with flowers and bees “to enhance the quality of the healing environment,” according to California Pacific Medical Center’s website. Its Facebook page has called it “the coolest hospital in San Francisco, possibly the country and even the world.”

So you do, so you do.

Sutter contracts also include “gag clauses” that prevent employers from knowing what rates have been negotiated by their insurers on their behalf, Mr. Lansky said.

That reminds me of a story. When I was arranging the surgery to remove a cancerous tumor from my leg, I asked the hospital about how much I would need to pay.

They sent me to their financial office where I met a nice woman who was able to tell me all about their different programs to help pay the bill, but who couldn't give me any idea at all about how much it would be.

"Ballpark," I asked. "Above or below $20,000?"

"Why that amount? Why would you think that amount?"

"I don't really have any idea how much it might be. That's why I was hoping you could give me an idea."

"Well it depends on your insurance."

"Okay. That makes sense. So look, how much would it be without insurance? At least that will give me a place to start."

"Oh that depends. There are all sorts of variables with surgery ..."

"Good point. Something could go wrong. Okay, assuming that I will be in this hospital for two days, and assuming that nothing goes wrong -"

"Well, the doctor will have his own charge. And the anesthesiologist. And - "

"Okay. How much for a hospital room here for two days, with nothing else?"

"I really couldn't say."

"May I speak to someone who could? I don't mean to be a bother, but it's really important to me to know how a very rough ballpark of how much this will mostly likely cost - preferably before I go bankrupt."

"I'm sorry. You should really talk to your insurance company. You are insured, right?"

[Edit: Having trouble with the formatting.]

[–]dave45 24 points25 points ago

Here's an idea that would fix this mess. In 1971 the State of Maryland formed a commission that has put a cap on how much hospitals can bill.

How well has it worked? Well, for comparison, in 2011 california hospitals billed an average of nearly four dollars for every dollar they expected to collect from their payers (Figure 9 of link) whereas Maryland hospitals billed only 24% more than what they expected in payments that same year (page 12 of link).

What's more, if you compare profits margins you'll find they weren't all that different for either State that year (Figure 11 and bottom of page 12).

[–]DiscoCarp 0 points1 point ago

Fascinating! Thanks for the links.

[–]dave45 0 points1 point ago

No problem. Spread the word when you can.

[–]Rocket80 6 points7 points ago

And this is a major reason why the prices can continue to skyrocket and there's nothing we can do about it - even the 1% of us who would actually attempt to 'comparison shop/price' our healthcare cannot get straight answers.

Call any doctors office right now and ask "How much for a check-up?" and there's no way you'd get a straight answer.

[–]Zazzerpan 1 point2 points ago

It's $40 for me. $20 copay if I choose to use my insurance. I get what you are saying but you are exaggerating and it's not helping your point.

[–]I_HOPE_YOU_ALL_DIE 1 point2 points ago

Freedom is expensive. I can walk into my doctor's office any time and pay nothing, but then I live in a socialist country...

[–]Maxentius22 0 points1 point ago

Can I move to your country?

[–]I_HOPE_YOU_ALL_DIE 1 point2 points ago

You'll have to pledge allegiance to Karl Marx in order to be let in.

[–]Maxentius22 0 points1 point ago

Deal. Let me the fuck in to your socialist utopia!

[–]_Z_E_R_O 0 points1 point ago

This is an example of an extremely common scenario. When my insurance refused to pay for my yearly visit the bill went from "free" to over $300. When I called to dispute the bill I was told that because the doctor found something wrong it became a regular visit and wasn't covered any longer. This insurance company is one of the only providers in the state, so I'm faced with either staying with their scamming plan or dropping insurance entirely. Insurance companies don't care about your health, and a $40 visit can skyrocket very quickly depending on what happens and what they agree to cover (anesthesia, lab costs, prescriptions, etc).

[–]shiveringmeerkat 0 points1 point ago

Clinic I work at:

Initial visit- $160 without insurance (doc will often give you a discount though, so that's the top price for the visit)

Any additional procedures/xrays/etc are extra but we can give you a ball park figure. Matrixectomy is going to be $360, xray are $40 I think. But I'm always happy to look up prices. If you don't have insurance we generally give a discount too depending on what you can pay.

It seems like our clinic is the exception though.

[–]commonplatypus 7 points8 points ago

I went to the ER after getting back from Mexico in July and spent maybe two hours there. They gave me a drip IV to re-hydrate me, did some blood testing, gave me some Tylenol, and then sent me home with some anti-biotics to clean the bacteria from my system that was making me sick after seeing the doctor for about 10 minutes. (I did not drink non-filtered water, but it turns out you can get sick anyways because filtering does not entirely remove the bacteria strain native to the region. You simply have to build a tolerance or not go at all in some cases it seems.)

So after all of that I ended up paying just under $700. My insurance covers 90% on hospital visits. 90%. That's higher than most insurance plans even dare go.

Total bill before insurance paid out was something like almost $7000. That's absurd. Just fucking absurd. Pricing for health care is out of control and something needs to be done about it.

Insurance companies were only part of the problem and definitely the smaller part. The real crooks here at the hospitals and care givers who can just charge whatever they want whenever they want.

[–]Thistleknot 1 point2 points ago

why is it hospitals are allowed to sell you (edit) their service without listing the price. An auto mechanic has to give an estimate, and remain within that estimate by 10% (at least in California) when giving an estimate. So why not a hospital?

[–]Shadycat 3 points4 points ago

They have better lobbyists.

[–]bobskizzle 2 points3 points ago

Because they've lobbied to make it illegal in a lot of states. Literally heard the words "it's illegal for me to tell you that [the price of an ER stay w/o insurance]" from an ER doc on the phone.

[–]toplel2013 1 point2 points ago

why is it hospitals are allowed to sell you there service without listing the price

In other countries, it is actually mandatory and you face charges if you don't.

But for some reason , americans refuse to vote such a law.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Because they can. Hospital prices, just like prescription drug prices are unregulated and not negotiated by the goverment like it is in Canada, UK, France, etc. Free market. A monopoly. And they spend millions on lobbyists to keep it that way.

[–]Thistleknot 0 points1 point ago

this is why I 'hate' (corporate) america. They bend too much to corporate profits because it drives america. But we never talk about corporate profits when we talk about "american life" at our july 4th bbq's or xmas dinners, but it's these policies that are in place that affect our day to day lives, while we try to maintain some visage of a better way of life that I'm sure North Korea tries to do with their own people. Keep your eyes on TV america. Just keep watching CNN.

Just recently today I ranted about H1-B visas, and how America/globalization (an american push) has basically made all US jobs competitively open on the world market.

[–]nvonliph 1 point2 points ago

My father had a similar sort of never-ending discussion with the billing department over at UCSF regarding a colonoscopy. Ultimately, the hospital charged some 90K (I know! I saw the bill, though) and the insurance and the hospital agreed to just forget about most of it, except for the ~1200 that was out of my pops' pocket. The rest of that charge? vanished

*edited the final adjustment price after confirming story with my father.

[–]dave45 1 point2 points ago

You should read this. It's an analysis of the financial records of 387 California hospitals over a nine year period (2003-2011). I'm guessing it will make your blood boil.

[–]nvonliph 0 points1 point ago

Good link, thanks.

[–]Psyladine 0 points1 point ago

So much for the sanctity of non-profit institutions.

[–]tellMyBossHesWrong 21 points22 points ago

"Orla’s forehead was sealed with a dab of skin glue for $1,696. "

Skin glue is the exact same thing as Super Glue.

[–]snorgsniffer 10 points11 points ago

Redditors, there are few things you ever read on these boards that's more directly important to you than the trend pointed out by the OP's article. As a group you are young and healthy right now, so it's only an abstraction, but trust me, as you get older things begin to change. As in WILL change, not might. And when they do, and you are forced to deal with the healthcare system in this country, insured or not, you will start doing a daily dance with complete financial ruin. Living under such a Sword of Damocles fucks up too many things to list.

And that's today. Unless something changes dramatically, in another generation healthcare costs will control and drive pretty much everything in society. Your only defense---holding action, actually---is to stay as healthy as possible as long as possible through proper diet, exercise habits, and recreational choices.

[–]d0peamine 3 points4 points ago

Looks like its a better idea to just go to the vet if you need stitches.

[–]DiscoCarp 1 point2 points ago

I actually had this discussion with my vet.

(I was telling him how much my rats liked the meat-flavored oral medication for mites and lice. He mentioned that he had to buy the fruit-flavored version for his kids because they wouldn't take the meat-flavored.)

[–]chasem167 4 points5 points ago

We charge crazy prices in our vascular surgery procedures 1k to 25k for stents thats patient charge 1k for a patch thats about 2cm wide to help hemostasis. Which can be acheived with just my hand. 100 for a scalpel. And that's just a few things. I have put enough stents in a patient to buy a modest house. It's absurd.

[–]Funky_Farkleface 1 point2 points ago

If a person pays $100 for a scalpel are they allowed to keep the scalpel? If the hospital is charging for physical items and those items are salvageable, they should then belong to the patient. If I ever get an insane bill like the ones described in this post, I'd ask for an itemized list and ask for the items I'm paying for.

[–]chasem167 1 point2 points ago

No it goes in the sharps to.the garbage the actual cost is about 4 bucks

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points ago

U.S. healthcare industry is seriously freaking out of control. Health care should be a right, not a privilege but that's how it's set up in good ol' USA. Insurance companies, medical equpiment companies, big pharma, hospitals and a small percentage of greedy doctors are raking in the dough. It's all about maximizing profits. Americans don't seem to realize that in America, healthcare is a big BUSINESS because most of us think being able to see a doctor when you are sick is a vital right and common sense. WAKE-UP folks to reality! For those of you who have insurance, actually take a look at the explanation of benefits your insurance company sends you after a visit. Ask the clinic/hospital for a detailed breakdown of charges. Most people with insurance rarely have any clue the cost associated with procedures because they only pay a small amount of copay. We also like to assume that if it's a non-profit hospital, it's a benevolent charity hospital running on goodness. Hah! Charity accounted for only 1% by the nonprofit hospital mentioned in the article. Nonprofit hospitals make plenty of profits--in healthcare, nonprofit status just means they put the money back into hospital rather than paying stockholders. The CEOs still make millions of dollars, they build fancy new wings, buy the latest jazzy equipment.

What other industry is there where you are completely blind and have NO idea what the cost of the item is before you purchase it? There's such a lack of transparency in cost involved with health care. Try calling up a clinic/hospital for how much a certain procedure will cost and it's like pulling teeth. Often they're evasive, won't give you an exact figure or tell you to check with your insurance company. They tell you get your operation done at a hospital with reasonable cost but how exactly are people supposed to shop around for the best care/low cost if prices are not listed? And most hospitals play dumb when you ask about cost. Total bollocks.

There should be a law that every hospital is mandated to post their chargemaster list. Hospitals like to claim that chargemaster is irrelevant because most people pay the negotiated rate by their insurance company or goverment (medicare/medicaid/veteran), but I beg to differ. If you don't have insurance, you are basically fu*ked because they charged you the FULL overinflated amount. Or if you happen to unpleasantly discover after a procedure that a specialist doctor (for example, Anaesthologist) is considered out of network even though you were treated at an in network facility, you are screwed. Your insurance will pay a scant amount based upon the Medicare reimbursement rate and YOU will be responsible for majority of the cost, based upon the chargemaster rate.

Several years ago, I ended up at the ER at 4 am with pain. I couldn't even see anyone without first going through a 30 min. interview with their financial person. Luckily, I had very good health insurance at the time but that was my first clue into how a hospital's top priority was FINANCIAL rather than the medical care of the patient. I do understand that they have to get paid to keep running but the obvious priority of money over care was unsettling. I finally got admitted and they ran few basic bloodwork and I went through like 6 IV bags before I got discharged the next mid day. Received the bill few weeks later and was astonished to be charged about $16,000! Never have I been so grateful to have health insurance. I only ended up having to pay about $300 out of pocket but seriously, $16,000 for few labs and IV fluid which probably cost few hundred dollars in total--utterly ridiculous and outrageous.

All this evasive hidden price tags, overinflated charges and wheeling/dealing between hospitals/insurance companies/medical equip companies and big pharma need to STOP. Health care should be about treating the sick, not gaining greedy profits from ill patients. This is how it's done by other industrialized nation. There needs to be one constant national chargemaster for all procedures that is regulated by a goverment/medical group for all hospitals to consult. A reasonable chargemaster with a small profit margin built in rather than being charged $500 for some minute thing that cost only $10 at Walgreen. Rant over.

Edit: spelling/typo fix

[–]Crunkenstien 14 points15 points ago

Had a motorcycle wreck a few years back and the hospital accidentally sent me the bill instead of my insurance. $140,000. Didn't even spend the night in the hospital, just an ambulance ride, a couple MRIs and a cast. Biggest WTF moment of my life. Luckily insurance paid for it all. Oh how I miss that sweet, sweet military health insurance.

[–]biggest_tuna13 -1 points0 points ago

I agree with a lot of what you have to say, however I disagree with the statement that healthcare is a right. The Declaration of Independence states that we have an unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It then goes on to state that to SECURE these rights governments are instituted. It does not say that it is the duty of government to provide these rights. I have a right to a gun but I have to buy my own gun. I have a right to write whatever I please but I have to pay to have it published (or find someone who is willing to do so).

You say that when you get sick, an individual has a right to see a doctor. But doesn't the notion that you have a right to see the doctor when your sick contradict the doctors individual right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? The doctor is providing a service to the patient but in exchange they receive no compensation if the patient does not have money to pay them for their time, overhead, malpractice insurance, ect.

[–]redcell5 4 points5 points ago


That's the thing about positive rights: someone has to pay for them.

Related, but see Flemming v. Nestor, which held that there is no right to social security payments.

[–]catin 4 points5 points ago

Forget about the fucking government.

Consider your rights as a human on Earth! In the past, doctors were taken care of by the village. They would be provided for because people need them, want them. No one would come and take the doctor's house away because the people need a doctor, and there are plenty of people that actually want to be doctors, and not for the money but to actually help people.

What we have right now, is a flux of doctors who are doctors for MONEY and money alone. There are plenty of doctors who would be HAPPY to treat people for free, so long as they had food to eat and a place to sleep at night - but those doctors don't have that choice, they are several 100k in debt when the graduate. The problem is so much bigger than just healthcare.

We, as a species, do not have to live like this. Society can change. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the only "rights" we have are the one's the government let's us have.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

I actually meant healthcare is a necessity, not a privilege. Semantics, sorry. Though I personally believe if a person is ill, there should be a fundamental human right to get care. From a humane decency pov, rather than constitutional govt one that you speak of.

[–]alwaysonanal -1 points0 points ago

If you are going to become a doctor your pursuit of happiness is to fucking heal people. why else would you become a doctor? to fuck sheep? Also the clause "pursuit of happiness" guarantees you healthcare, because you cannot pursue shit if you are dying, so in order to fulfill the constitution you NEED to have universal healthcare that every person can access because otherwise you cannot fill the right the constitution gives you to pursue your happiness.

Also you can bring this into the life and liberty parts as well, you can't have life or be free if you are ill, if your life is threatened by disease.

[–]biggest_tuna13 -3 points-2 points ago

Wow. First, people go into medicine for a multitude of reasons. Personally, (like you said) I decided to go into medicine to help people. But if that was the only reason why I would definitely not be going to med school. I decided on medicine because it isn't a 9-5 job, its fast paced, challenging and I enjoy using science. All of those things bring me happiness but so does bourbon and basketball. So does that mean the government is required to provide me with a bottle of pappy van winkle and Bulls tickets. Absolutely not! But if I want to work to be able to afford these goods then the government exists to ensures my right to buy these items so that I can enjoy them. Why should someone if they decide to become a doctor only be allowed to have one pursuit of happiness?



Suspending my beliefs for a moment and using your belief that healthcare is indeed a right couldn't one make the argument that housing is also a right? Without a house and place to sleep clearly an individuals health will suffer, would it not? And what about food? If you are can't find enough to eat then clearly your health will suffer. So should the government step in and ensure these as well since they affect an individuals health?

[–]joepierson 4 points5 points ago

Yes, and we do, (foodstamps, Section 8 etc).

What good is it if you make 350K/year but live in a country where you have to build 12 foot walls around your house to protect yourself from the starving homeless poor?

If you don't help the poor with their misery, they will bring their misery to you.

[–]biggest_tuna13 -1 points0 points ago

So then why would anyone work is the government is just gonna provide them with food and housing. And then they're gonna need clothes too, right? I looked at your comment history and you said:

..."everyone knows since 3rd grade what to eat but no-one does it because we are addicted to junk food"

I love junk food and sugar as much as the next person so why should I have to potentially pay for someone else healthcare if they are not going to take responsibility for it themselves? To me personal responsibility is one of the defining characteristics of this country.

[–]alwaysonanal 1 point2 points ago

With housing and food they do to an extent, there is programs in place to help people find housing as well as good stamps, soup kitchens, food shelves. Howeve,,r there really isn't a healthcare program that doesn't suck in USA as compared to say most of western Europe that provides people with access to healthcare. Even people who have good jobs and make good money struggle with how outrageous health costs are. There is far better solutions but the govt won't implement them because of some unfound fear of a scary word...

[–]biggest_tuna13 0 points1 point ago

Maybe there is a better healthcare system than the current one out there and maybe there isn't. No one can know for certain. But the original point I was trying to make is if you assume healthcare is a right and as such so too are food and housing what is the incentive for anyone to work? Or to work harder? And ultimitely it begs the question who is gonna pay for healthcare, housing, food? Once you call healthcare a right then you have to ensure food, housing and clothing but what limits someone from saying they need a big screen tv and wii fit so that they can stay in shape? This is the real problem with healthcare and is not just in this country. How do you decide what does and does not constitute healthcare?

[–]Lobsterassassin 0 points1 point ago

Actually Canada has healthcare for everyone. Everyone just pays into the system. It can work because their country is not revolved around insurance so the prices for healthcare are actually reasonable.

And people still work there.

[–]Shadycat 0 points1 point ago

By the numbers, including costs incurred and patient outcomes, almost every healthcare system in the industrialized world is better than ours.

[–]alwaysonanal 0 points1 point ago

Because food, shelter and clothing us a right doesn't mean you get a mansion and dine on lobster and steak. Making health care a right also important, Germany has had no problem covering their citizens for over 130 years or having incentives for personal success, and they lost two major wars and were bombed to shit. Sorry but if you reform the health system to a proper single payer you would reduce the cost, how much do you think shareholders and c level execs make a year, it does nothing to cover people. This current system is beyond fucked, it bleeds people dry and the notion that as a human you don't have right to at least basic medical care is assinine, do not forget the creed you took as a doctor. How does it go again? Something about helping people?

[–]uguuuuu -2 points-1 points ago

I love that people are downvoting you for a completely reasonable post. God bless America!

[–]delicate_flower -1 points0 points ago

The healthcare industry in America has a LOT of problems. Most of them are directly caused by lawyers, insurance companies, and government bureaucracy.

What I do NOT understand is how anyone thinks that healthcare is "right".

-Is food a right? Everyone needs to eat, so why cant you walk into any restaurant you please and demand to fed?

-Is housing a right? We all need a place to live... why cant you set up camp in any house or apartment you want, or demand that the government provides you with one?

-Is clothing a right? All of us need to cover our butts... are you suggesting that you should be allowed to take whatever you want from your favorite clothing store?

No person has the right to lay claim on the labor of another person. That's called slavery.

[–]bobskizzle 2 points3 points ago


(Especially when it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable student loans to get the education to get the license to provide that service we have a "right" to.)

[–]_Z_E_R_O 0 points1 point ago

Everything you described above, from squatting in another person's house to eating in a restaurant for free, is stealing. Social security and other programs are payed for by workers over time, and are available for them when they need them. When social security was founded by FDR nearly 50% of senior citizens lived in poverty. Source. These programs were very necessary and are still used to lift millions out of an impoverished lifestyle. It's hardly slavery - it's contributing to society. I'll gladly pay into these programs in order to keep the elderly, sick, and underprivileged children from starvation and homelessness.

[–]delicate_flower 0 points1 point ago

Things dont suddenly become ethical just because they get coded into law. Do you work for free? Would you be happy if the government established your fee schedule forcing you to take a significant pay cut?

The founding principals of a country define its character. If you prefer those of Greece or France or The Democratic Republic of Congo, that's fine, but that's not America. Here, no one has the right to confiscate the property of another person or the fruits of their labor. Not even the government (without a good reason and just compensation). In principal, anyway.

I SUPPORT safety net social programs. But unless you are blind, you can see that they are being horribly abused.

[–]chicofaraby 13 points14 points ago

Nations with single payer systems have lower medical inflation.

[–]JoeyX06 8 points9 points ago

THAT'S SOCIALISMS!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!111

I can't think of anything more evil than paying taxes, and in return having affordable healthcare. I'd much rather spend $4,000 on an MRI that costs $250 in the UK, and sleep better at night knowing I'm not a commie socialist marxist.

[–]InkingShips 4 points5 points ago

I live in Australia, I've never paid out of pocket for a doctor's appointment in my life and most public hospital stays are heavily/entirely subsidised by the government including in-hospital treatment, accommodation, medication etc. Prescription medication is usually $5 for the generic brand that the government has negotiated price subsidies with and covers everything from antibiotics to birth control pills.

All of this is paid for by a 1.5% levy on taxable income. That is such a fucking small price to pay for an adequate minimum standard of health nationwide. You can even be publicly and privately insured at the same time if you want.

[–]barn4 2 points3 points ago

What is absurd is that in the United States we pay more than 1.5% of taxable income just for medicare.

[–]JoeyX06 0 points1 point ago

Affordable healthcare through a 1.5% tax that you barely feel out of your pocket? Sounds horrible! /s/

Seriously though, I don't know how anyone in American can be against seriously reforming(or trashing) our for-profit healthcare system. Obviously there is no perfect system, but the alternative to what we have now(which you described) is so much better.

[–]Denmark1976 3 points4 points ago

Its growth! Every time the price goes up, the profit margin grows too. It is a win-win situation, for the share holders.

[–]kjell81d 12 points13 points ago

I spent two weeks in hospital a couple months ago and my bill was over $18,000. If it were not for my top level insurance (which I pay out the ass for every month), I'd be completely destitute. I was charged $63 for two aspirin which I couldn't take because I'm allergic and was still charged because it was prescribed (thanks for reading my medical history doc). Good news is, I got off lucky. My IV's cost less than $100 and they decided not to fuck me on the life giving oxygen. It really bugs me that a bag of salt water can cost so much.

[–]whatgiftshouldiget 28 points29 points ago

Im an American who moved to Europe (Poland), and my friends from the states laugh at me when I tell them the state ran universal healthcare here is 1000 better than the system they have in US.

As soon as you hear universal health care in the US people label it as "socialism" ... yet Police, Schools, Firefighters ... they are all federal/state entities and somehow people ignore that.

Obamacare is not universal health care as everyone labels it. It is the con of the century, it is forcing everyone to buy PRIVATE insurance, if not you get punished.

I've been sick 4 times here, and I did not have to wait 6 months to see a doctor.

[–]Lawtonfogle 12 points13 points ago

What people need to do is start arguing to privatize current socialized systems. I go straight for the emotional kill shot and say we should privatize CPS and police work, and if a child is physically or sexually abused they should raise the money themselves to seek protection from their sexual abuser. I, acting with great (and obviously fake) sincerity, argue that any sexually pure child will have no issue raising donations to protect themselves (of course this is complete bullshit here).

[–]lowlatitude 2 points3 points ago

Excellent! I'll use that.

[–]Olyvyr 2 points3 points ago

Full coverage is still better than what we had. Don't get me wrong... we should at least have had a public option, but the ACA is a step in the right direction.

Once Americans get used to the idea of everyone being covered, reducing costs is the next step. Expanding Medicare if it saves costs will be more palatable thanks to the ACA.

[–]Rufus-McGillicutty 2 points3 points ago

Prices will go up. Inevitably.

[–]DiscoCarp 0 points1 point ago

<nod> For myself, the ability to buy insurance is a big deal. (Pre-existing conditions out the nose.)

Still, I am pushing in the limited ways I have right now for a proper single-payer system.

[–]Attiias 12 points13 points ago

What the fuck....I'm starting to understand why some people would rather risk death than go to a hospital for treatment, one little mistake and you are financially ruined, it's literally making me sick to think about.

[–]uguuuuu 16 points17 points ago

When I was unemployed (and uninsured) my biggest fear was that I would get sick (my family has a looonnnnngggg history of cancer). I actually remember thinking that if I became ill I would just kill myself because I didn't want to bankrupt my family. I remember just how casual that thought was, that if it happened, I would just get a gun and shoot myself because it's quick.

That's what it's like.

[–]MyCoddledModernAnus 5 points6 points ago


About five years ago I got a severe case of food poisoning. For two days I puked yellow shit and shit yellowish puke all over the place. I could not stand up, I could only walk way bent over. The pain was excruciating. At one point, I really thought I might die from this.

I did not go to the hospital.

[–]FormerDittoHead 5 points6 points ago

You should have "shopped around" for a cheaper hospital while you were ailing!

I'm sure that you would be able to anticipate everything you'd need, starting with a doctor who practiced there (OK, you don't get to keep your doctor here, either), and choose accordingly.

/sarcasm but some say this shit seriously as if it would be a good thing

[–]MyCoddledModernAnus 3 points4 points ago


You can't shop around, they don't give out prices.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points ago

Spent overnight (4am-4pm) in ER and got charged $16,000 for bloodwork and several IV bags.

[–]kjell81d 5 points6 points ago

That 18 grand I spent was after insurance. It covered all the procedures and medications but not the extra 8 days because it wasn't entirely life threatening.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

Do you mean you had to personally pay out of pocket $18,000? I read it as you being billed $18,000 by the hospital. (And assuming most of it paid by your ins.)

[–]kjell81d 2 points3 points ago

I was personally billed the $18,000.

[–]Lawtonfogle 0 points1 point ago

You might want to redo your original post as it reads as if the bill your insurance received for your was 18,000, not that that was the bill you received post insurance.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Oh man, I'm so sorry. I hope you have a good job and that you're doing much better! There's an extremely well written issue called Bitter Pill by Time magazine that came out earlier this year if you want to read about how the health industry in America works. Very enlightening. First time I learned what a "chargemaster" is. I've had to deal with insurance stuff for a family member recently so all this stuff riles me up. Next time, it'll be cheaper, less hassle and better care getting it done overseas. It shouldn't be like this in America.

[–]Maxentius22 16 points17 points ago

Meanwhile in other countries you can get stitches for $12.

[–]uguuuuu 17 points18 points ago

Yep, my then-boyfriend paid $28 for stitches in the Netherlands (it was a LOT of stitches).

This is what's absolutely infuriating to me, when people say that UHC is "socialist garbage" and doesn't work. It does work. Objectively. There are tons of countries where it works fine. People here are just selfish morons who don't want to contribute to the system. They'd rather pay thousands of dollars for fucking stitches than make health care more accessible to everyone. America really is the land of "fuck you, got mine". What an embarrassing, sad little country this is.

[–]DiscoCarp 3 points4 points ago


I think we started out as the land of "fuck you" - at least in our heads - which honestly isn't a bad way to be [edit: in an independence and especially independent thinking sense]. Somewhere in there the second clause crept in.

[–]delicate_flower 0 points1 point ago

You can have well-run social programs that everyone funds, or you can have open boarders. You can not have both.

Socialized medicine can work in small, homogenous countries. It can not work in a huge country where less than half the population doesn't pay income taxes.

[–]bobskizzle 1 point2 points ago

And the rest of the countries with cheap healthcare are either physical or economic satellite states of the US.

[–]toplel2013 1 point2 points ago

Socialized medicine can work in small, homogenous countries

What this actually means : I'm not racist but


It can not work in a country where more than 30% is obese, with the most expensive medical schools in the western world, and with "not for profit" hospital directors making 10 times more than "not for profit" hospital directors anywhere else in the planet.

As for the income taxes, they are not the only kind of taxes.

[–]uguuuuu 0 points1 point ago

Yeah totally man, it's not as if there are any large countries with large immigrant populations and "open borders" that have successfully implemented and use publicly funded health care just fine. Canada is not a real place. It exists only in my imagination.

[–]delicate_flower -1 points0 points ago

I happen to know a little something about the Canadian health care system.

Whenever something is rationed, there is less to go around and the quality suffers. If medication A is indicated, but medication B is cheaper, guess which one the hospital will stock? If you need suture A, but all you have is suture B... you get the idea.

If you have a relatively minor health issue, and you can wait to see a referring physician, and wait to see a specialist, then you're going to be pretty satisfied. If you are acutely ill, you've got problems.

Sick Canadians who have money cross the boarder and get treatment in America.

[–]uguuuuu 0 points1 point ago

Sick Canadians who can afford it you mean.

I'm from a country that has publicly funded health care myself. Yes, it has shortcomings. No, they are not worse than paying $20,000 for a short hospital stay, or going bankrupt because your wife has cancer.

By the way, there can always be a private system in place that you can make use of if you don't want to wait. Publicly funded health care just means that those who cannot afford the private insurance still have access to medical care. There's literally no reason, zero reason, not to implement it in the US. There's no excuse not to. The only reason we don't have it is because the people who make these decisions are cartoonishly evil.

[–]Crunkenstien 6 points7 points ago

I wiped out while mountain biking in Costa Rica and had to go to the emergency room. 5 stitches and a couple shots of antibiotics later I was only out $160. Plus, I was pleasantly surprised at how nice the clinic was. Nicer than some emergency rooms I've seen in the U.S.

[–]socialisthippie 4 points5 points ago

Next time i get a gaping wound i'll just book a quick plane ticket to some other country.

[–]Maxentius22 0 points1 point ago

medical tourism is growing very rapidly. Its cheaper to to fly to India, have surgery, and fly back to america than it is to pay most insurance deductibles(let alone if you dont have insurance).

[–][deleted] ago


    [–]Wriiight 3 points4 points ago

    Dentists aren't usually out-of-control expensive in the US because no one really has dental insurance. Everyone pays for dentists out of pocket, so people shop around and dentists therefore have to be reasonable.

    [–]lethal_weapon_five 1 point2 points ago

    Same is true for canada. Sadly our health insurance does not covered dentistry. But prices are reasonable. I had to get gum surgery that required a skin graft from my hard palate. It cost me 1800$ cause I don't have dental insurance.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

    Actually, dental care is super expensive if you have to get anything beyond routine cleaning and occasional filling. Root canal, crowns, wisdom teeth removal etc. And most dental insurance will only have max coverage of like $1500. That won't cover a crown. Rest comes out of pocket and it ain't cheap. Take care of your teeth!

    [–]Epilsonnelson 5 points6 points ago

    And that's why we use superglue, kids.

    [–]socialisthippie 9 points10 points ago

    Regular superglue isnt that great for closing wounds, it can burn and doesnt have FDA approval... however theres a medical version, dermabond, that is AMAZING. It's chemically similar to regular superglue but better because it doesn't cause any irritation (burning)

    You can order the human version (expensive) or the pet version (cheaper/more!):

    [–]bender_2982 1 point2 points ago

    They used that to close my laparoscopic incisions after an appendectomy. Great stuff -- no skin irritation, lasted two months even with normal bathing, and minimal scarring.

    It is an odd feeling, though, to know that your surgeon glued you back together.

    [–]faceless_masses 0 points1 point ago

    Just try not to get it inside the wound if you can. I've always been told the stuff they use at nail salons is cleaner than what you find at the hardware store but haven't been able to confirm.

    [–]Ixium5 4 points5 points ago

    Since everyone else is telling their stories...

    I snapped my fibula near my ankle while playing soccer. Spent the day doing X-rays and getting it castes and being told to come back Monday for the surgery(it was Friday). Go back Monday and wait... And wait... 3 days in a hospital bed waiting for surgery since I was low priority. I get the surgery and a shitton of percs and a bunch of blood thinners in needle for since I'm traveling soonish...whole thing cost 0$

    Fiancée spent 4 days in the hospital being pump full of fluids and insulin(just found out she is type 1) in the ICU at one hospital then the transferred to another one... Then had to goto the pharmacy for a lot of insuling needles, test strips and whatever else she needed... Grand total was... About 100$... But that was just because the drug plan didn't cover the full thing of needles.

    So yay for Canada!

    [–]myrddyna 1 point2 points ago

    In 2012 California we collected signatures on 2 ballot initiatives that would have 1) not allowed hospitals to charge more than 125% of cost of drugs and procedures and 2) required non-profit hospitals (in cali these don't pay taxes so naturally most are setup this way) to spend %5 of their revenue in charity each year (currently they average around 1.5%).

    Sadly the union that backed this used these initiatives as a bargaining chip instead of pushing it into law. Laws that would have probably been stricken down by judges anyways.

    Ended up, the hospitals didn't honor the agreement made with the unions anyways, so we will probably be doing the very same thing again in 2014. Good times.

    [–]bigplrbear 2 points3 points ago

    Yup, had an ingrown toenail that I needed to get taken care of about a month ago. It was getting to the point where I really couldn't walk.

    Doctor numbed it up and fixed it in less than 10 minutes. Total cost: $6,731 and some change.

    I have no insurance until January 1st, at which time I'll be covered by Medi-Cal. Hopefully, the hospital and the doctor will wait until then to collect so that the price can be reduced to a level that I can afford.

    Otherwise, they're not getting paid. The bills will go straight to the drawer because I can't afford it.

    [–]shiveringmeerkat 2 points3 points ago

    Are you kidding me?! I work in a podiatry clinic (Pacific Northwest) and we charge $360 for that procedure... how the hell are they charging you over $6k?!

    [–]RSLFan 2 points3 points ago

    Because California

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

    This completely illustrates the whole screwed up current system. And wide ridiculous discrepancy in price. One place charges $360, another $6000. And you won't find out until you get the bill and die from sticker shock.

    [–]seek3r_red 2 points3 points ago

    Good god. This is just frigging ridiculous. No wonder health care in this country has so many problems.

    I think if any other business did crap like this, they would be accused of robbery and arrested.

    [–]JoeyX06 2 points3 points ago

    Worse than having a for-profit healthcare system, is that a good portion of Americans have been duped into arguing against a single-payer system, which has been ranked as superior in every non-partisan study and ranking ever conducted.

    Many puppet the line of "well why do Canadians come HERE for treatment then???", while neglecting to realize that our healthcare system sucks b/c of its high costs, and lack of access. Yes America has THE best treatments in the world, but the issue is that few can afford them. It's tough enough paying $4,000 for an MRI that costs $250 in the UK.

    [–]Todda468 1 point2 points ago

    Where does the money go to? Seriously if stuff is paying for costs + something else who or what is the something else? Could we follow where that money goes to?

    [–]lowlatitude 2 points3 points ago

    It goes into already deep pockets due to greed. A good example is the pharmaceutical industry. They pitch all these drugs for all sorts of issues (real or fake). They claim enormous R&D costs, but the reality is that the government subsidizes them and oftentimes the R&D already has a very good head start from either government research or university research (sometimes both). These pharmaceuticals don't pursue a cure (the last cure was polio in the 1950's) because it's better for profits to treat symptoms. They clear 200%-400% profit on a pill that had already been researched, claim high costs, charge outrageous prices, and the icing on the cake is the patent and patent extensions to prevent competition. Not exactly free market. It's socialism for pharmaceuticals.

    [–]vxicepickxv 2 points3 points ago

    Given the fact that R&D is about half the cost of prescription drug advertisement in the US is kind of total bullshit too.

    [–]Murtank -2 points-1 points ago


    Do you realize how retarded you sound? There is NO CURE FOR POLIO. Polio was eradicated by preventative treatment...e.g. a shot that people get TO THIS VERY DAY. Greedy fucks , those 1950s docs, right? Oh wait, nevermind, because patents on those treatments EXPIRE!

    You have to wonder why someone would dedicate a significant part of his/her life to going to medical school to learn how to treat people when apparently all they have to do is sit on their ass and shout at the top of their lungs about how everyone is getting screwed to truly make a difference. I tip my hat to you

    [–]rmm45177 -1 points0 points ago

    Polio is still around though...

    [–]Murtank 3 points4 points ago

    Which is why people still get the shot TO THIS VERY DAY ?

    [–]slip-shot -1 points0 points ago

    Very easily. It goes predominately to insurance companies. Also Hospital administration and paying for indigent care.

    [–]Murtank 0 points1 point ago

    How do hospital bills get paid to insurance companies?

    [–]slip-shot 0 points1 point ago

    The rates the uninsured pay subsidizes the rates offered to insurance agencies.

    [–]Murtank 1 point2 points ago

    The rates the uninsured are initially charged are not what they pay, firstly

    Secondly, they are charged for the services rendered. If you want to play the subsidy game, then its the insurance companies subsidizing the uninsured. Since the insurance companies are the ones that wind up actually paying...

    Thirdly, you're the first person I've heard to ever make the claim that the uninsured are subsidizing anyone... let alone insurance companies. I applaud your creativity

    [–]Lemontrees2 1 point2 points ago

    These rising costs are about keeping the shareholders happy, and keeping company hospital CEO's and big wigs getting those large bonuses and big million dollars salaries folks.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

    My husband got an x-ray and two staples. We were only there for an hour.

    The bill came to $5,800 and some change.

    [–]Grnd33p 0 points1 point ago

    Medical tyranny is still tyranny. This is an outrage. Close all medical schools at once.

    [–]bender_2982 4 points5 points ago

    That won't solve anything. The doctors aren't setting the prices. And we still need doctors anyway.

    [–]Grnd33p 1 point2 points ago

    What good are doctors if no one can afford their services? The proverbial dead horse is dead.

    [–]RyogaXenoVee 0 points1 point ago

    Quick, buy stock in the company that makes that thread.

    [–]ph-ceo 0 points1 point ago

    We just released helpful data around what cash rates and insured rates are for one of the procedures in this article, both at Cal Pacific and throughout San Francisco. The rates in the article are wholly list prices, or the charged amounts in hospital chargemasters that almost no one actually pays.

    The cash rate for the CT scan is nearly $1800 less, and you can save almost $1000 more off that by going to a hospital less than 10 miles away. More data is available on the link above and at

    [–]catin 0 points1 point ago

    This is why my parents always put duct tape on my cuts. Cheapest stitches around.

    [–]iamsoserious 0 points1 point ago

    Damn I lucked out, got 4 stitches recently and only cost $1500.

    [–]Gunski 0 points1 point ago

    Must be a black Friday sale.

    [–]optionallycrazy 0 points1 point ago

    I have insurance and my accident where I sliced my hands open cost me about 150 bucks, if that.

    I thought it would be hundreds of dollars but I was very lucky to have insurance and went to the ER and got it all patched up and didn't have to pay a whole lot.

    Personally I think these sort of articles are false. Obamacare sucks, but I mean it doesn't suck this badly. It only sucks for the millions who lost their insurance and have to "shop" for a new one and finding out that it's not as cheap if you get it from your work place. The procedures such as this are still covered the same if not better. It's just that since you're paying the entire charge (workplaces pick up some percentage of the bill and per month cost). I think there's a lot of lies spreading on the cost of medical procedures for insured people. If you're uninsured, that's a totally different story and you'll get the full burden of the bill which isn't really something that can be debated.

    For millions who are uninsured, I think the key debate here is really isn't why it's costing so much but how come we arrived to this point. I figured Obamacare would be the first steps towards making medical care free for all in the country but instead it turns out to be way more complicated than I thought. My thought is that going into the future, health care would be so complex that no normal person can determine what is going on or what to do. We're at that point already.

    [–]sqykjl 0 points1 point ago

    Umass Memorial hospital in Massachusetts, which until recently had been laying off tons of nursing and other staff due to budget "constraints" decided to pay somewhere up to $4 million to pay models to get people to donate marrow. Worse, they never told people who came in that they would be billed by hospital if their insurance didn't pay for it and ended up paying $525,000 in fines to the State attorney general and dealing with a bunch of lawsuits.

    This is the kind of shit that's happening in hospitals across the country.

    [–]adirtygerman 0 points1 point ago

    Last time I was in the ER, I had a room and a few vicodin. The hospital charged my insurance almost three grand.

    [–]senior_dgaf 0 points1 point ago

    if you want to become a doctor for the money, youre becoming a doctor for the wrong reasons

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

    Ever heard of god complex? Some doctors have it, particularly surgeons. Doctor=prestige +money. Status and cache. A profession regarded highly by almost everyone unlike being a lawyer. Of course it'll attract those who crave power and money. Like politics. If all hospitals switch to a salary system rather than the current system of docs getting a cut of every procedure ordered, it may improve care and weed out better. It's what Mayo Clinic uses.

    [–]svs323 0 points1 point ago

    Insurers and patients negotiated lower prices, but those charges were a starting point.

    Bingo. Truth is that basically nobody actually pays $1500 for stitches. Have insurance? 90% covered. Medicare/caid? 100% covered. No insurance? Either paid by hospital, or in cash maybe 75-85% discount.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

    Um no, you are wrong. People without insurance get billed for the FULL amount and most hospitals don't tell you that it's negotiable or there may be a cash discount. Not in their best financial interest.

    Where do you get your info from?

    A while back when I didn't have ins coverage, I was charged $700 for an annul exam and basic labs. Hospital billed me for full ridiculous mastercharge amount and I paid out of pocket for entire amount. Now, I know better but no one informed me about any cash discounts then.

    PLENTY of people pay the entire overcharged amount because they don't know they're being overcharged.

    [–]CommanderZx2 0 points1 point ago

    This is what happens when you give monopolies in the medical sector, they can charge whatever they want for medical supplies.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

    Can't be! Free market will lower prices and increase competition as long as you remove all the govt bureacracies! This is 'merica!

    [–]mdconnors 0 points1 point ago

    That's our health care system in a nutshell. Right now I have a horrible plantar wart that I wish I could get rid of, but there is no way I am having a doctor do it because my health insurance isn't great and I am terrified as to what it will cost at the doctor. Initial estimates I've read are anywhere from $300-500.

    [–]TyphoonJoe 1 point2 points ago

    Try duct tape. Seriously google it. Just get good sticky tape, and change it daily will take a few weeks and hurt a bit.

    [–]dontnation 0 points1 point ago

    Get some liquid nitrogen. put it in a Styrofoam cup. dip a swab in it and press it against the plantars wart for 30 secs. wait a minute, repeat.
    This is what the doctor will do, but it will cost a helluva lot less.
    For even cheaper you could try dry ice, but that would probably be a bit hard to handle and isolate on the affected area. Though I'm sure it can be done.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

    Do this. Freeze it off. Remember getting this done by doc in college.

    [–]LordDwia 0 points1 point ago

    The solution is probably to let a lot of people die.

    I know this sounds callous, but when you compare how much money is being spent fixing broken arms, birthing babies, and prescribing antibiotics, versus how much money is being spent keeping extremely old and chronically sick people alive just a little bit longer...

    Bring on the death panels. Seriously. Even a single-payer system won't save you at this point, you need a fundamental change in the way people think about sickness, death, and their consequences.

    A young man breaks his arm and gets an infection? Pull out all the stops and get him better.

    A fifty year old man with diabetes and heart disease needs a bunch of expensive tests, surgeries, and treatments? Let him die in a ditch.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

    Yep, and we should also kill ugly people too, ay? And those born with Down Syndrom, Autistic kids, babies born with cleft palate, people with mental illness, non white people, Jews, Muslims, gays . . . why not kill all people once they hit 50?

    [–]LordDwia 0 points1 point ago

    Tell me why not.

    Do you know why not?

    Tell me.

    [–][deleted] ago


      [–]GiantWhiteGuy 9 points10 points ago

      Wow you're so full of shit.

      It's amazing how every other hospital in the world manages to do all these things, and not charge $130. I got sick in SE Asia, went to a top hospital (read: American educated doctors), needed about 5 IV bags, medicine, and the grand total, for the IV bags, the bed, the nurse (who actually nursed me I might add, as in stayed near me constantly, not checked up on me ever 4 hours), the doctor, and everything else was like $250.

      homeless, destitute, or others who can't afford to pay

      This is the reason. Not all that other bullshit. And you know what? Thanks to them, I can't afford to pay. If it's them, or me, it's me. Fuck 'em.

      Let 'em die in the street if that means I don't lose my whole life if I get banged up. How am I going to carry the homeless, once my injury turns me into one of them?

      And no, there have not been "radical advances in IV bag technology" in the last 50 years. Same shit they were using in WWII.

      [–][deleted] ago


        [–]Wriiight 2 points3 points ago

        Boy, you've never been to SE Asia. I've had $30 cab rides here in Singapore, and the grocery store across the street sells cartons of milk for $15.

        But I've been in and out of ERs, and paid cash no sweat. Yeah, you can pay a lot for a private doctor if you want to (I went to a gyno the other day who charged $500 for the appointment) but that's definitely not the norm.

        [–]kharlos 1 point2 points ago

        "I forgot I'm on reddit where every 20 year old kid is an economist..." Oh sorry. I didn't realize you were an economist. Where did you get YOUR degree in economics? I'm not an economist myself so I'm confused, naturally, as to why all of these medical procedures are so much more expensive in the US than in a hospital in Germany or even Switzerland (without subsidy or insurance) when those countries have a such a higher cost of living? Why, as a foreigner living in Switzerland, should I have to pay 3 times more for an apartment but less than half in medical bills than as a citizen in the United States?

        [–]GiantWhiteGuy 0 points1 point ago

        Yeah and I wonder why. I don't have to carry 8 bums when I walk in the front door, and afford some hospital CEOs mega-yacht.

        I don't care about any of that shit. All I need is an IV bag, and it shouldn't cost me $130. I'm sure some stuff has to be expensive, but that doesn't.

        If you're over 20, and you think it does, you're a god damn retard.

        Have you ever been to SE Asia? Do you still think it's all people in straw hats coming in from the fields? Holy shit Singapore, Bangkok, Manila, Taipei, all those cities ARE Manhattan. There's a fucking tidal wave of money running through them. Sure, there are some slums, but there's plenty of brand spanking new skyscrapers filled with highly paid ex-pats. Every corporation we got here, they got there.

        If you're still thinking it's 1970, and America is the only country in the world with technology and a good economy you smoke crack, sir.

        [–][deleted] ago


          [–]GiantWhiteGuy 3 points4 points ago

          Okay and are they bumbling idiots who kill one out of every two patients while saying "Oh me so sowwy, me no healy-fixy." No.

          You walk in, they fix your shit, they hand you a bill you can pay, and you move on with your life. How is that not in every way a superior system? And they had all brand new machines, clean as a whistle, hell even the food was better.

          And the doctors I saw were all US trained. And being from SE Asia, I bet they worked their fucking asses off in Med School.

          Give me a doctor who grew up poor over one that grew up privileged here any day of the week. He must have busted ass to get from where he started.

          [–]brugada 0 points1 point ago

          Which hospital were you at?

          [–]Dr_Pepper_spray 1 point2 points ago

          Argument noted however $130.00 isn't a realistic price for any of that, it's just the hospital pulling a number out of it's ass and trying to get lucky.

          [–]Love2Watch -2 points-1 points ago

          And yet Americans still want circle jerk and try and act like "Durrr America is D best, a durrr we so cool and free, a duuurrrrr" What a fucking joke, pathetic fucking country.

          [–]nvonliph -1 points0 points ago

          I had the poor luck of getting treated at the very CPMC emergency room that is examined in the article. One infected finger tip drained, bandaged, and a scrip for anti-biotics. $3200. Ugh. They didn't use any stitches, but then charged me for the entire set of surgical instruments (of which only one was used). Don't people have autoclaves anymore?

          [–]Chew_Monster -1 points0 points ago

          Anyone going to the hospital for 3 stitches deserves to pay thousands.