• hodar

    Sure, it has to be Wi-Fi.

    I could never be the local environment, insectacides, weather patterns, changes in the solar output, changes in water vapor in the atmosphere, water tables, seasonal changes, water contamination, temperature changes, insect damage, mineral variations in the soil.

    Nope, it’s Wi-Fi. Why? Because someone said so. Just like Global warming. No, …. err, I guess it’s Global Cooling again like in the 70’s …. no? Err how about Global Change?

    Let’s mine some data, cherry pick findings that agree with our pre-determined theory, then tweak the data and then destroy the raw data. Anyone who disagrees must be silenced and their credability and funding destroyed.

  • BobSmith

    Global warming is occurring. The evidence is clear, and agreed upon universally by scientists around the world. You’re misinformed on this one, hodar. The only people who disagree are folks who have something to gain by people not believing it (politicians), cranks, fools, and those who believe the other three. The science is in, is clear, and has been for quite some time now.

    However, the science isn’t clear at all on this claim about wifi affecting trees. No mechanism is identified, and aside from the one study at the end, which listed no controls, the only thing they have is that it happened in the last decade, which, a lot of things could have happened in the last decade. Chemicals affecting the trees, or some source of radiation that can actually cause mutations, would seem far more likely. I doubt this hypothesis will be borne out by the evidence in the long term.

  • JoeyBravo

    Man-made global warming claims are a scam. The evidence is far from clear. BobSmith is the one who’s buying into the hype, and is essentially calling everyone he disagrees with an idiot or a scammer (that’s not nice, Bob). Anyway, you’re so versed in global warming, you probably don’t need to even Google Ottmar Edenhofer – but for all the other “idiots”, he was a lead author for the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which shared the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize with former Vice President of the United States Al Gore. I know, exciting stuff. Well, he just came out with this gem of a quote: “…one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore…”
    Man-made global warming = wealth redistribution. Will you dismiss the quote above and just say it’s out of context? Fine. Here’s a partial list of scientists who do not fit into your assertion of “universal” agreement:

  • hodar


    Bobby, Bobby, Bobby … get a clue.

    The only thing certain is that the weather will change. Perhaps you ought to do a little investigating all by your lonesome, research things for yourself.

    Then ask one very basic, very simple question.

    If things were as fixed as you like to believe – why was raw data destroyed? There is only ONE reason to destroy data – only ONE. And that is if the data you destroyed does not support your fore-gone conclusion.

    What other reason is there to permanently and forever erase data? Data that was historical was first massaged to fit a now disproven ‘Hockey Stick Graph’ and then destroyed. Gone!! Poof, over 100 years worth of data is gone! Why? Are hard drives getting more expensive and have the ability to store less data? Data that was stored at dozens of independant and safeguarded storage facilities was DESTROYED by the very people you opt to believe.

    Then the conclusions they derive defy logic. Global Warming will create more hurricanes and of greater intensity. Well, the facts show that we are having FEWER hurricanes, and the one’s we are having are not following their model. The model they use is the same model that your local station uses for screwing up the forecast for the weekend. Yet, people insanely use this demonstrably bad predictor to forecast 100 years in the future. It can’t reliably predict tomorrow, and you want to use this as evidence for 100 years in the future??

    The IPCC has been caught, red-handed perpetrating fraud, destroying the careers of anyone who dared to question their conclusion – why? Here’s a hint: Political gain.

    The USA is going into a Depression, first with Billions of dollars wasted creating a now-bankrupt Green Economy.

    Here’s a cincher … when someone says that it is ‘criminal’ to even question Global Warming – they are perpetuating a hoax. As a Geek – you should be smart enough to QUESTION EVERYTHING!!!!

    But, I see you are simply a Lemming.

  • lamorpa

    Looks like it is time for large tin foil tree ‘hats’

  • NoTracking

    Why is the proposal that man-made radiation is harmful such a crazy one Hodar? Truly – how long have we studied and measured the effects of Wifi in detail? Particularly its effect on various other life forms. Assuming it would have no harm to the environment simply because it seems to have no harm to Humans is like saying “well if we can eat chocolate.. so can a dog!”.

  • John Pimm

    Hmmm… Out in the front yard of a WiFi enabled home you often can barely *pick up* the signal on a receiver that’s designed to receive it. Seems incredible to me that a merely adequate received signal strength could damage plant cells. What would it do to *our* cells as we sit right next to a WiFi transceiver in our computers?

    Seems kind of far-fetched.


  • LukeB

    Hodar and JoeyBravo

    I would suggest you both reassess your facts. Two of the biggest authorities in the world of science; the AAAS and the NAS, both have stated that this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed soon. This isn’t just a handful of tree huggers. These are THE people in the world of science.

    This isn’t simply about the US, this is about what scientists all over the world are saying. You are right Hodar, in saying that we can’t accurately predict the weather. That’s the scary part. One of our best tools are ice core samples. With these we are able to tell a lot about the Earth’s past. Namely what the climate has been like before. The changes going on now have occurred before, that true. Whats also true is that there IS a correlation between them and the amount of CO2 in the environment. Once we get to a certain point a flip occurs and the Earth’s climates undergo massive changes. Originally it was thought that those changes happened gradually over time but more recent studies are showing that these major shifts occurred in LESS then 50 years. But this is all about the past. That is what HAS happened and is truthfully part of the natural cycle of the Earth.

    Scientists are seeing these changes taking place again which worries them. But that alone isn’t what all the “hype” is about. The major issue is that the rate that the changes are occurring are way beyond anything that has ever happened in Earth’s history. It shouldn’t be happening this fast, and its only speeding up.

  • Durka Durka

    I realize you’re joking around and I appreciate your sceptacism of “global warming” but I wanted to point out that Water Vapor in the atmosphere does not change.
    That is all.
    -Durka Durka

  • Durka Durka

    correction, after reading the rest of the comments i realize you’re not joking around, which i appreciate even more. my comment still stands though.

  • GreebleGrobble

    What I find amusing is the fact that so many people either say “yes” or “no” to global warming… We have evidence supporting that it does, and evidence supporting that it doesn’t, but rather than agreeing to disagree and thinking “maybe we really have no clue what’s going on” you two will spit of all sorts of information to disprove the others point. This is exactly why very little is accomplished in our government, two distinct parties in power and they disagree on nearly everything.

    Why don’t we all just stfu and get along and do what’s best for humanity and the Earth? Regardless of the existence of global warming, we need to promote a ‘greener’ Earth and reduce CO2 emissions etc.

    This is similar to the idea of Religion… there are many different religions out there but it doesn’t mean you agree with them… Does that mean you should completely disregard their opinions or beliefs?

    My point is, no one knows for certain whether it exists or not, so let’s leave it at that. All of the arguing gets us absolutely nowhere, and I don’t think either of you are changing your perspective on the matter, so what have either of you accomplished…? e-peen growth?

  • JoeyBravo

    I don’t need to reassess my facts because they aren’t “my” facts. Go to the link, do a search, open your mind – the facts are at places other than the University of East Anglia (well they aren’t there anymore either, but you get the point). And by the way, facts are facts. You may not like them but they aren’t up for debate. I have opinions – I could reassess those – and I do, because I’m not a climate robot. But you don’t just change facts. There are scientists in applicable fields that do not agree with global warming or do not agree that it is man-made. That’s a fact. Maybe they’re wrong but it doesn’t change the facts.

    Durka Durka,
    Yours reminds me of Saul Alinsky tactics of demonizing an opponent – identify, isolate, freeze. Nothing about what Hodar said sounded like a joke. Your 1 minute interval between posts makes clear the game you’re playing. Oh, and …Mohammed Jihad. America…F*** yeah! I won’t assume that your name is a joke but it would be funnier if it was complete.

    GreebleGrobble aka Rodney King,
    Ah, the “can’t we all just get along and be kind to mother earth” voice of reason. No, not really. See, the global warming folks want to redistribute money – not just from me, but from my kids and their kids. So, no. We can’t just do what they want “to promote a ‘greener’ Earth” because it doesn’t do anything but take my cash and send it to emerging markets who burn coal like – well, like China burns coal. You are right about the religious aspect since many warming (I mean, climate change – since you can’t figure out which direction temperature is going to back up your claims) people look at the planet as a god (I can’t help but notice that you spell Earth with a capital ‘E’).
    Lastly, you ask what I’ve accomplished? I know I’m not going to change your mind, or the others. That’s not the point – I like differing opinions. The point is that Hodar is not alone. I’m not alone. And just because the climate fear mongers say that the debate is over, doesn’t mean that it’s true. So I will speak, and those who think they cannot speak out because they will be villified can see that others (who have facts on their side) can use common sense and hold their own.

  • GreebleGrobble

    I understand your point – your China example is a good one, and I agree completely, that it would be a waste of money if it merely results in China burning coal, since that gets us nowhere… But that goes back to having a unified planet (and no I’m not talking about communism) that can agree on worldwide policies. I understand we have quite a ways to go before that happens (if it ever does), but in the mean time I don’t see how either side can make predictions. We only have about 50 years worth of research into the matter, and considering Earth has been around for millions…? maybe billions of years, I just don’t see how a decision can be made. Yes, there are advocates for both sides, one just gets tired of seeing all the gibberish.
    And yes, you make a good point – you reveal your opinions so those who agree can join you and won’t be afraid to speak out themselves… However, how the hell are two completely disagreeing parties ever going to make any decisions or get anything done (going back to my republican/democrat example)…? And the short answer is we won’t… There aren’t enough neutral politicians in D.C. but rather a majority of left and right wingers who can disagree with the other half all they want, but it seems rather stupid to me because as stated earlier, neither side is going to change their opinion, so what is the point? Our government needs a total re-haul as it’s outdated and ineffective…
    There isn’t anyway to reform or change the two parties in the climate change debate, so we’re going to end up with two people with differing opinions who cant make any decisions cause neither will agree with the other. Disagreement simply leads to conflict and conflicts lead to wars (not that this is that extreme) but I still don’t see the point. I understand your passionate about your view and opinion, but passion can result in ignorance (not that it is in your case) leading to further conflict. I like that you mentioned Rodney King, cause I do think we should all just take a step back and reassess the situation, but that doesn’t mean I see it happening.
    Just like you’ve voiced your opinions, I’ve voiced mine, but I don’t think anything is going to change now that I’ve done so, and its going to remain that way I’m sure…
    BTW, I used a capital E on Earth, because it’s grammatically correct to do so, not because I consider the Earth some sort of deity

  • deever

    until last fall relatively distant in our urban setting from cell
    power” new 2.1-something gHz transmitter was aimed our way (and the general ambient level is of course up as well with more & more
    wireless mania dependencies). A Norway maple previously resplendent (at least 15 of those years) suddenly this spring became defoliated by half — only on the side facing the mast (photos available). There are other aspects of vegetative stress on the property: a giant aggressive rosebush for years near that Norway, probably in the same plume of radiation descending on our yard, has turned sickly; there have been leaf deformities never seen all our years here on grape vine & pear tree; one fir tree sheltered mostly from that plume, has newly browned-out spots ONLY where the branches poke out around a north wall thus directly exposed to this new emitter. Wake up! Synthetic xenobiotic radiation like this is a universal bio-/enviro-stressor, and must be turned back starting now, lest everything with cells in its body eventually succumb in one way or another. All over our city, now further densely e-smogged with “smart” utility meters just activated this year, we have noticed accelerated tree stress this year, whereas In local ravines where radiation tends to be much lower there are few or no signs of this defoliation etc. Open your eyes, pay attention to your own symptoms and those of people around you, clue in & tell everyone you can, so as to effect drastic corrective change as speedily as possible. Another current anecdote: black raspberry bush
    part exposed to new “smart” electricity meter radiation (different
    locality, stronger transmission, higher frequency) had exposed cane leaves wrinkle and turn yellow and yield inedible-tasting fruit, canes sheltered just fine.