

Problems for migrants

“Don’t complain about things that you can’t change”

After a generation of migration, barriers to social mobility remain

See article

Readers' comments


madamme lunettes

Where and who we are born to should not be the only factors that define who we are. However, the "hukou" system is tying every Chinese down to their roots, allowing them little room and freedom to stretch beyond their ancestral/birth places. This is no doubt limiting the mobility of labors and valuable resources, creating great inefficiencies due to the inflexibility of the system.

It would be extremely idealistic, however, to ask for the Chinese government to eliminate the hukou system. Such large-scale deregulation would only cause the already-large migration of rural farmers to expand even future. City limits are already being tested by the current influx of immigrants, and deregulation would only add more pressure to the already overburdened city resources, such as healthcare and education.

One of the comments here suggests the Chinese to keep complaining. That would just create even more trouble than there already is. The hukou system creates tremendous disparities and inequalities among the rich and the poor, and among the city and county folks. A reason that China isn't falling apart is because the people are gritting their teeth and marching through the tough times. Not saying that this trait is all good, and there definitely needs to be some progressive changes to the hukou system, or else even the pressure cooker will erupt.

I don't know the reality in China, but believe I know better than many others, is that "Hokou" is not to restrict your mobility these days but deny your entitlement, to resources such as school low income housing, etc.

It was sort of a caste system in Mao's days, it was tied to housing (which was tied to employment as anything else), even the right to stay anywhere else (no mobility).

livefromCA2 in reply to watchingchina

No migration ALWAYS exist, when the process was implemented, people can no longer migrate freely, they have to obtain permit to move. This permit has been lifted after Deng, but entitlement issue is still there. You are only entitled to your HOME place, and therefore you are not entitled to anything in a new place.


"Illigitimate governments don't have the backing of the people, ..."

1% government does not have the backing of the 99%. Is the 1% government illigimate?


This is why the communist party is destined to die. Illigitimate governments don't have the backing of the people, no matter how many parades they hold.
The last line sums it all up. The gov't can erase computer files, but they can't erase memories.


guest-iswosoe in reply to Democrates76

China has made great progress in 30 years and still moves on today.We should see that the migrants have some freedom to choose their jobs(they can go if the job is dissatisfied).Yes, there are difficulties in raise in the ladder in China but this is a prevailing phenomenon in the world not just China. ALL we can do is changing yourself rather than complain the envioronment.God help those who help themselves. And we should look further and put our confidence in developing countries' transformation. Am I right?


This is a real problem that any exploding city would need to solve. Look at the slums in Mumbai, the ghettos in Rio, or even any U.S. cities.

In the U.S., "hukou" is status quo maintained by what house you can buy, or rent you can afford. Of course it is much better if you can make as much as someone living in Santa Monica as a migrant worker, chances are you will end up in a ghettos like Compton with 5 other families, your children will dream to go to Harvard but most likely they will join a gang and drop off school. Is this something you can change?

Of course everybody would like to have a good job, good education, nice house, in a prosperous city. Too bad there is only so little space, so many schools (where you will build them without houses to host families?), and so many streets.

guest-iswollj in reply to livefromCA2

There is no Hukou in the U.S.

In fact, most Americans up until recently migrated from city to city, State to State
looking for work in their field. When Michigan went down during this last
recession, some people sought work in Seattle, Arizona and Texas.

Education is expensive, but there are things like scholarships, Pell Grants, and
CLEP test out of basics that mitigate these hindrances.

Housing is expensive in both coasts, but anywhere else in America there
is such a thing called financing by Owner. A person can pay extra on their
rent and after a few years, the extra paid is accrued as the down payment
(equity) sought by the owner. The person continues paying after that and
owns the home after the agreed term. No subprime; no magic; no B.S.

Most Universities are offering web based classes and money for retraining is
available albeit it takes effort to apply and obtain.

Mumbai, Rio, Western China cities, and other third word, er, "Emerging markets"
slums do not have even 1/1000 of the support found in the US.

P.S. Take the blue line to Long Beach and get off at Compton. You will find that
not all of Compton is a Ghetto. I bet many people in the awful places you

Here the article and livefromCA2 are talking of migrants in big cities, where resource is scare and competition is fierce, not "anywhere else". And my feeling is, many rural people in China could afford housing in "anywhere else" in China, and many of them WOULD CONTENT THEMSELVES LIVING IN A LITTLE BIGGER TOWN near home (at least within China), instead of COMPTON 10000 miles away from their home and family.

Migrants or not, money or power decides. It is true in anywhere in the world.

livefromCA2 in reply to guest-iswollj

"I bet many people in the awful places you mention WOULD LOVE TO LIVE IN COMPTON."

I think that sums up our opinion differences, thanks but no thanks, and that is pretty sad. That is "Hukou" to me, you can move anywhere you want to, but they are as bad as your last ghetto, only marginal differences. That is decided by your income, migrants are by default mostly low income and uneducated/unskilled people, you categorize migrants like they are from San Francisco to Los Angeles, that is totally not what this article describes, we are talking about from Comptom to Bevelly Hills, from waiter to movie star, from ghetto to mansion - everybody wants to live in Bevelly Hills, sorry, only a few can get in.

If you were well educated and high income individual in China, I do not believe you fall into the "migrant" category.


Some countries treat people "unequally" for one reason or the other, as long as there are ways to get an urban Hukou, then people should make such a big fuss. Here are some examples.

1) West vs East Malaysians, East Malaysians can work in West Malaysians, the reverse is not true
2) Quebec university students have lower tuition that the rest of Canada. The same with Scotland vs England.

Our drugged up hippies types criticize China for allowing migrants into Tibet, but at the same time criticize China for not allowing then into Shanghai. Well both sides are hypocritical.

However, the irony is the children of a migrant from Yunnan who immigrates to Singapore has more rights than if his/her parents were to go to Shanghai in search for work. The chances of getting a Shanghainese Hukou is most likely harder than getting a Singaporean PR. The irony is that the most friendly city to migration/ immigration for PRC citizens, happens to be outside of China !!! It only takes about 1 year to become a PR, and a couple of years to become a citizen in Singapore. The only bummer is your son has to become a NSman when he reaches 18.

east wind in reply to Bismarck888



The "HUKUO" system came into existence in the "Confucian" countries of China, Japan and Korea 1000s of years ago

So-- it is an East-Asian thing

And by the way --- Singapore is keen to attract as many foreign talent as possible --- that's why it is easy for some qualified Chinese to get into Spore



Bismarck888 in reply to east wind

But the current system in China is alot more rigid than the Hukuo in Japan and Korea, and alot more strict than China in the past. South Korea abolished theirs 4 years ago.

Actually many countries in SEA have household registration system courtesy of the Japanese. Taiwanese system is based on the Japanese one, not the one setup by the Qing. Indonesia and Thailand also have a household registration system introduce by the Japanese. To get a Jakarta (capital city) residency permit, requires residency for a year, letter from your employer and US$ 2 administration fee. Even with the bribes its not going to cost anymore than $5.00.

The current system of hukuo in China is a whole different creature than the hukuo of the past, or in other countries. Its much strict.

As for Singapore, basically anyone can apply who is not Malay/Indonesian. They have bus drivers, clerical staff, laborer etc. The qualifications are almost non-existent for Chinese and Indians. Mainland Chinese make up 1 Million of the PR, Indian PR come in at 130,000

new student 2009

@ To Democrates76 in reply to east wind June 1st, 16:08

//Oh yes, that's right, I forgot I'm Indian//

You should not forget you are an Indian and you should be proud that you are (there is no necessary to hide it), even though TE says India is in bad shape and revolution in India is possible.

According to TE articles your per capita GDP is only 25% of my GDP, not what you have boasted. 480 million Indians (40% of total population) are living under poverty line. That is democracy with Indian characteristics.

India has the most of malnourished children in the world, making India population in future a liability in the world, not a benefit to India.

I don’t want to laugh your poverty or economy, but you always attack on these threads even though it has nothing to do with India. You should worry revolution in India and split up of India, not my BMW.

new student 2009

Wow that big long comment and not once did you actually mention the article.

Didn't offer a counter point or more information. The article clearly states that "Shanghai had 170,000 students enrolled in high school in 2010, but there were 570,000 migrant children aged 15 to 19 living in the city who were unable to attend those schools"

Are you one of those that got the schooling or missed out?

Do you have relatives or friends who are still considered second class citizens in their own country because they did what the government wanted. They emigrated to the cities and manned the factories that churned out cheap gee-gaws for consumption by the west.

But it is always easier to attack someone's real or perceived country or ethnicity.

Next time try to debate someone's opinion - that is, if you are able to.

You ask me [Do you have relatives or friends who are still considered second class citizens in their own country because they did what the government wanted.]

You are misunderstanding. There are rich people and poor people, but there are no second class citizens in my country. But there are second class citizens in your country of Australia.

Democrates76 is not for comment. He only want to insult Chinese, not one time but every time. He should be ashamed of his conduct.

new student 2009

I never claimed that every country has rich people and poor people. But this system is different and you know it. People are not being discriminated against because of income, people are being discriminated against because of their origin. Not even by their place of birth, but where their parents were born.

"But there are second class citizens in your country of Australia."

Trying to be disingenuous by highlighting my country doesn't change the facts on the ground in yours. First off, how does my government treat citizens differently? The law applies equally across Australia. There is no discrimination based on where you live or were born.

Remember, this is not a discussion on inequality, but on governmental discrimination in 2012.

I don't care about Demcrates76, stop blaming someone else. I clearly said you did not comment on the actual article, nor did you offer a counter point or more information.

You have done the same again. Debate someone's opinion. You have not done the same to me, just attempted to divert the subject to my country. Last time I checked the article was on your country!


Zhang Xiaohan should think about applying to Harvard, Stanford, M.I.T. or even NYU. These "very liberal" Universities are definitely against the evil "hukou" system. They truly believe in affirmative action, equal opportunity, political correctness and are totally against any kind of discrimination, so if she explains her case as a migrant in China, she might have a chance to study in the USA in a few years. There are a number of bright "well-known" Chinese students studying at these Universities already

nkab in reply to Sentinelese

You are being far too acrimonious on Chinese people. It's does no good to anyone.

Although China graduates well over 6.5 million college students a year, there is acute shortage of professional trades people such as techicians, shop workers and mill foremen etc.

It's a good opportunity to guide high students to professional trade schools instead and have them co-op with industries and gain employment after graduation as master-apprenticeship the Germany is famous for and works well.

As agriculture work is getting more scientific and efficient in rural fields with less farm hands, more migrant workers will enter urban employment and eventually got integrated with city folk. It may take some time, but it be be done in China, and all's well in time.

Sentinelese in reply to nkab

I agree. Guagua Bo should go back to China and following the footsteps of his grandfather, help fulfill the dreams of the billions of poor peasants and workers in China.
Power to the Proletariat!
Down with elite universities like Harvard!
Long Live the Marxist Revolution!
(perhaps this time with less Chinese but more German characteristics, since Karl Marx was a German, and Germany has good professional trade schools and apprenticeship programs, no?)

Unfortunately China shares a long border with Burma, so it is susceptible to Burmese ethnic violence attacks. I heard the Burmese really like to perform ethnic violence against their own ethnic minorities (Karen, Kachin, and etc), Christians, and foreigners in general (especially the Thai, Indian, and Chinese).

So Bo GuaGua, in the interest of his own safety, must stay in the USA, which is half a world away from Burma. The US Coast Guard, Department of Homeland Security, and CIA do a very good job protecting everyone living in the US, both citizens and visitors, from terrorist attacks.

guest-isemnlj in reply to Sentinelese

There are millions of Zhang Xiaohan in China, how many Harvard like universities are going to admit? Asking Zhang Xiaohan to apply for Harvard like universities is the same as asking an African American who has neither GPA or SAT score, nor other talent or money or connection (and maybe unequally treated) to apply for Harvard like universities.

In fact, a few out of MILLIONS study in Harvard like universities makes absolutely no difference except, maybe, it makes some people superior really good.

Sentinelese in reply to guest-isemnlj

I agree, that's why this liberal, all men are created equal, equal opportunity, affirmative action, no discrimination blah blah blah politically correct stuff that these "prestigious" American Universities profess to is just smoke and mirrors. At the end of the day, they don't really mean it. In reality it's more about Race Rank and Religion in the USA and in China it's all about Hukuo, Guanxi and Corruption, I believe. Oh, I forgot to mention Guagua Bo and Mingze (Mimi) Xi, both studying at Harvard. How did they get in? Guanxi perhaps?
Anyway, good to see that the elite in both countries (US and China) are converging to the same universally valid values like exceptionality of the upper class as predicted by another wise German guy Henry Kissinger (he is wiser than Karl Marx, you know)

Coco_Chanel555 in reply to nkab

I agree with your point that vocational schools can offer many benefits to the student and to the wider economy, but you're missing the issue here. This is not an argument as to whether vocational schools are good or not, it is a fundamental rights issue concerning an individual's ability to choose what they wish to pursue and not be subject to discrimination based on who their parents were.

Acceptance into vocational or high schools or anything else for that matter should be based on merit, and educational barriers to migrant children are completely socially unjust.


The mark of the Beast:

That is why those with money are leaving....

Hong Kong is getting overcrowded

Keep Taiwan beautiful. Say no to "Reunification",
and yes to full independence. Support F-16 C/D
sales to Taiwan. Write to your Congressman.

You are one of those people who are unable to think logically or strategically. The Pentagon has already stated that conventional fighters (ones that have to take off from land air bases) are useless in any battle over the Taiwan Strait because China already knows where all these air bases are, and could easily destroy them with cruise missiles. Spending hundreds of millions on useless weapons while antagonizing the weakening and soon-to-fall CPC is probably a bad idea.

China will never attack Taiwan unless it is heavily antagonized, because popular sentient in the mainland is already very suspicious of the Communist government and Communist propaganda. Most educated people already know that the KMT was much superior to the CPC in the war against Japan and have discredited most Communist propaganda. (There is a joke in the mainland, and that everything CCTV says you can be sure to know is false.)

The CPC will fall by itself in the coming years. Antagonizing it would be very stupid right now for Taiwan.

One idiom to describe what you're doing is that you think with your dick and not with your brain. But unlike most people who have a hard on for girls, you have a hard on for an island. I think you should hit the gym and work out so you can find a girlfriend.


"People with nothing to lose will eventually revolt, the communists know this, they just choose to ignore it since they feel Chinese people in general will supposedly just shut up and take it (although 76000 protests a year should signal they won't)."

Chinese people have actually been doing very well in the last a few decades. Migrant workers have seen their wages risen 200~400% in dollar term in just one decade, and now they also have social security and basic medical insurance too.

Chinese people have much to lose if their government is taken over by the 1%.


I would like to call on someone to tell the other side of story here. The people who were born and raised and still reside in these big cities have been suffering a lot because migrant situation. The cities used to be pleasant and quiet, but now they are not so. Traffic jams, house price, crimes, pollution, beggers in Subways were just a few of the serious problems came with them. Is this the price we have to pay for “development”?

To tell the truth, I like the city (Beijing) as it was not as it now, being surrounded by skyscraper and stuck in the middle of the “road” (if you don’t call it parking lot) with a brunch of high end cars in front of me. It is no difference with other “Big cities” in the world, not my Beijing. You see, I have been to other countries and places, more advanced or less developed, I appreciate the view, the scene and their way of life. However, I always remember where I belong to. I always come back to my place. While, I have to say some people don’t, they keep dreaming about something they can’t get or someone they can’t become. They always want to be the people in shiny shoes and luxury suits which they can’t, and they blame others for that. They think the cities don’t treat them equally, they believe the longer the stay in cities, the more they suffer from it, but what about our life and our rights? Pursue of happiness is also my natural desire and my rights and I say you ruined my city and my life!

There is nothing wrong with working in textile factory or making IPAD on extra hours. It is YOU who went to the city and hope to get a job in a factory thinking this is decent than farming, it is YOU who abandoned your field and your senior parents and brought your handful of kids to the city which you didn’t resided in and hope for the city to provide you healthy insurgence and a house and school your kids. It is YOU who is dreaming all the time hoping to become a “white collar” and date celebrities. Well, WAKE UP! You had your place, you had your life which is not in here, in the city.

However, now since you chose to come we don’t blame you, we offer you the best we could, although we still have our own problem to solve. The limited resources in the city become even tighter under this circumstance and we shared everything with you. Please don’t blame the reality while you keep dreaming all the time. And, one more time, we don’t ask you to thank us, just do not blame the people who live here all their life that you want to be bigshot. There is no such thing as “YOU DESERVE”.

eDv6bqNjmP in reply to Skip27

If you were one of them, you have already settled on this issue, haven't you? If it really matters, don't you really think that they haven't thought that through? It is never about fair, its personal and it has been on all over the world. Call me old fashion, but look at the new problems come along? How many migrants to overseas have got the real identity and been accepted as residents?

Jaccy in reply to Skip27

If a Chinese does something bad in the foreign country , he deserves the discrmination by the residents there .But what if he do things just like the people there ? Even if there's something he does wrong but polite and harmless, he will still be treated poliely by most people. I am an Shanghainese,and I love Shanghai.So, when the migrants spit everywhere or steal things even rob people and we can do nothing .Some migrants use our resources , lift all the prices here,earn a lot money ,nut they still don't like Shanghai .They complained about something such as the crowd everywhere and the traffic jam.They will say that we Shanghineses say Shanghai dialect and it's hard for us to accept them. The fact is that they never want to be a new Shanghainese.Maybe you don't know ,many Shanghaineses don't say our dialect in fear that the listener is a migrant.And the policy calling on children in school say mandarin has made most of the Shanghaineses' children can'tsay even understand Shanghai dialect.
There was one thing a few days ago.A DJ of the famous Shanghai radio read one audience message online saying"Please don't say Shanghai dialect!I hate your Shanghainese".Then,the DJ said "If you don't like Shanghai,please rolling like a ball and leave here"which means "get the hell out of here".As a DJ,he is wrong, but he behaves as "muzi"which mean "good and brave people "in Shanghai dialect.What's disappointed was that he was blamed by a Shanghai local newspaper and was insulted by one of his colleagues who is a migrant.At last,he apologized but the DJ who insulted him didn't say sorry to him.
Indeed,I have some friends who are migrants.I like them .I learned a lot from them.Some of them are also worrying about the "hukou" coz they also want to live in Shanghai.I want to help them coz I can feel that they truly love Shanghai from the bottom of their heart.
So,to migrants,if you love Shanghai,you are welcomed.If don't ,please go away,thank you.

Bao Shu in reply to eDv6bqNjmP

I wanna say that without those immigrates who work in the factory, who sell breakfast to so-called townspeople, and who do those stuff that YOU unwilling to do, how can the city you live in functions well, how can you get the newspaper home, and how can you live in the skyscrapers built by peasant laborers, etc.


These people should feel fortunate that the communist party has chosen them to slave away so it can flourish.


The sooner China rids itself of spoiled communist elites, the sooner its people will benefit from China's rise. Otherwise, between war with the West, war with its Muslim minority and its demographic timebomb, China is destined for another lost century or three.

east wind in reply to Democrates76


China's GDP per capita is 4 times bigger than India --- and if you say that Chinese are slaves ---then Indians are super -slaves with 4 times less income than Chinese

At least the Chinese hold 76000 protests--- the 700 million lower castes HINDUS in India are so suppressed for the past 5000 years that they dont even have the guts to protest --- as these Dalits/Sudras Hindus quietly accept their Fate

HINDUISM preaches that they must not protest but accept their Fate as "KARMA"



Democrates76 in reply to east wind

Oh yes, that's right, I forgot I'm Indian, the only logical explanation to all things that bother Chinalovers.

So what? My GDP is about 15x larger than your middle class, and I'm only middle class.

Perhaps the wannabe superpower should compare itself to the real superpower instead of some backwater new money country that's in the came "BRIC" group as your beloved communist party.
Wearing Prada, driving BMW, riding English horses and drinking French wine not making you feel important anymore? Perhaps you need bigger eyes and whiter skin?

It's best China's communist party and new money stick to immitating Wester culture and let the real powers of the world run things. Yeah yeah yeah, treasury bonds, that "threat" is getting old.

watchingchina in reply to Democrates76

And the world will surely benefit from the loss of racist bigots like you.

Sorry to disappoint you, but China is a much happier and pleasant place than your little mind permits you imagine. But, live with your degrading fantasies if it makes you happy.


It's incredible that the government has more than the required resources to eliminate the hukou system, migrants know that they do, but say nothing. Instead of Olympics or space travel, providing public education for migrants and their children is a much better investment.

If migrants are paying tax (VAT, income, or otherwise) in Shanghai, why are they not allowed to reap the benefits of these tax dollars? Shanghai's hukou-holding caste are freeloading off of VAT-paying migrants.

east wind in reply to Ghentis


Stop your mis-information

China has more than 700 million rural people

AND -- if there is no "Hukuo" system--- these 700 million rural could migrate to the cities and simply overwhelm the cities

eg -- Shanghai has more than 12 million people --- bigger population than Sweden or Norway or New Zealand and if another 20 million rural folks migrate into Shanghai--- Shanghai will become another MUMBAI --- which is a giant cess-pool and a giant open air toilet



Ghentis in reply to east wind

That doesn't stop people from moving to cities, it just means their kids can't get an education. They are already in the cities, waiting tables, cleaning houses, and building skyscrapers.

Explain why a migrant worker should pay taxes in Shanghai when all of their tax money goes to middle and upper class Shanghai people with hukou.

Terrantr in reply to Ghentis

Explain why a international student in a private school in US should pay tax when all of his tax money goes to US citizens?

raskarll in reply to Terrantr

explain why you not going to school in your own country? the parallel you are trying to draw is flawed, since you are there benefiting from the taxes you pay since , i am certain you dont spend 100% of your time at that private schoool and even though you did, what about the services you enjoy i,e communications, roads etc, shouldnt you pay something to keep enjoying them

Terrantr in reply to raskarll

i am certain migrants dont spend 100% of your time at that construction sties or factory floors and even though they did, what about the services they enjoy i,e communications, roads etc, shouldnt they pay something to keep enjoying them


As an outsider, I feel it necessary to comment.

Change is absolutely necessary, and difficult and initiated change is always the hardest.

So I say to The Chinese - Never stop complaining !

,nough said


Hukou is an institutionalized caste system. It benefits the politically powerful urban middle and upper class in China. Whether migrants will take it as their fate or will attempt to change the system will determine how the Hukou policy evolves.

guest-iswwjem in reply to qrio1

I agree, but in 10-20 years, we will be talking about how the borders between different countries are "institutionalized caste systems." Eg a person born in America is entitled to many more benefits and opportunities than a person born in Mexico.

The world, and not just China, needs to liberalize in this regard.

qrio1 in reply to guest-iswwjem

Absolutely. The notion of nation states and national sovereignty is a very recent construct and by no means is a permanent idea. The recent financial crisis is only a temporary challenge for the European Union (a supranational union) but in the longer run, we are going to see collapse of the idea of national sovereignty when people fully realize how dependent they are on the rest of the world. In this sense, universal ideas of Human Rights and Open Society for all takes added significance.

What is unique about China's Hukou system is that a government representing the interest of ALL Chinese (not just urban Chinese) is preventing a large part of its OWN population (not foreigners like Mexicans) from participating in labor markets on an equal/fair basis.

watchingchina in reply to qrio1

Nobody is preventing China's populatioin from participating in labor markets anywhere. Movement and job search are free to everyone.

Millions of Shanghai's 25 million people have no Shanghai houkou, and don't much care about it. The effects are far less than this article pretends.

It's mostly just more cheap China-bashing, so don't get carried away.


As a self-professed socialist state, I find it odd that the Chinese government is stubbornly maintaining the hukou system. How can it be socialist when such a huge portion of the population is denied many basic rights. Perhaps there's a general feeling that keeping the hukou system is instrumental in keeping the flow of migrants steady; well, half a billion migrants later, job well done.

I am probably not the first to percieve a sense of superiority of Chinese city dwellers over their rural compatriots. A Chinese-French friend of mine was telling me and a Chinese girl of his internship experience in Shanghai. He said he liked it a lot but for one thing; the Chinese habit of spitting everywhere which he found repulsive. The Chinese girl became very defensive and vehemently claimed that spitters aren't urbanites like herself; they had to be rural migrants. Well, to me they're both Chinese.


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