Britain and Ireland

Friendly persuasion

Two ways to bury the past

See article

Readers' comments




The state visit by Queen Elizabeth, methinks, will do more to move/conclude the peace process. I'd go as far as to say that this symbolic trip will begin the normalization of the temultuous relationship between Britain and Ireland.


"Irish Republic"? "Ulster"? Your Ireland style guide seems to be stuck in a 1970s time warp.



In any article on another topic you would not refer to the country of Ireland as anything other than Ireland, why the need here?

Ireland is the correct english language name of the country consisting of the 26 counties south & west of the 1922 partition of the island. Éire in the irish langauge. So as we are writing in english we use Ireland. Ireland is a republic, but it is not called the Republic of Ireland or the Irish Republic or Southern Ireland or any other such nonsense. It is simply Ireland. Ulster consists of 9 counties, 6 of which are part of the UK in an area now known as Northern Ireland. Ireland is also the name of the island, so if you must please denote that you are writing in the sense of the entire island by refering to it as the island of Ireland.

Simple really.


@ Podocarpus.... well done, your cheap jibe illustrates your ignorance more than your humour; ever hear of wikipedia?!

@economist... Ulster is 9 counties; 3 of which are Éire and 6 of which are N. Ireland. It has been a fact, for both Ireland & the UK since 1922! Sometimes it must be good to hide behind a nameless article; a modicum of knowledgeable effort and research in this article is sadly missed.

This article is like chewing gum! It's all lovely and nice but the flavour is plastic and artificial. Why is there no criticism of the Irish government?? They only want to use this probable Royal visit to keep the masses occupied by something that means nothing to most people. A visit by the current British PM would however be a more appropriate reflection of our modern relationship. In the end, this is just smoke and mirrors by the Irish government to divert the nation away from the Irish government’s handling of the, mainly, home-growth economic crisis.


I don't understand how a state visit would improve or enhance the relationship between Ireland and Britain considering the amount of opposition there is to it in Ireland. I've experienced it personally and to be honest wouldn't like to see the Queen of England in Dublin for a number of reasons.
A visit by the prime minister, who has control of practical matters concerning the two countries would be a better reflection on the modern relationship. The Queen of England rather, I have been lead to believe, is merely symbolic of the British empire, past and present.
Finally it would undoubtedly cost millions in security measures, to the Irish Government, should the visit go ahead. The point here being Ireland is near broke.

Stephen Bishop

"But there is no reason to suppose that republican objections would go beyond rhetorical and token protests."

Cloud and cuckoo spring to mind.


The majority of Irish Citizens want peace and good relations with our neighbor. There are some however who hold onto the past without realising or caring about the views of the rest of the country. Unfortunately, it's these people's views and actions that catch all the headlines and give Ireland this negative image in the world media. Blood has been shed, many lives lost, but bearing eternal grudges over this will not solve the issue. It's important not to forget the past but we must also forego.
Yes, certain people will object and jeer the Queen's visit but for the sake of the majority let's move on.


> The pattern was for Irish politicians to
> demand British withdrawal from Northern
> Ireland, with Britain declining to oblige.

And also for Britain to lodge a formal complaint every time Ireland joined any multilateral institution, demanding that institution not use the country's name: "Ireland", but one of a number of suggestions recommended by the British foreign office instead. There was an abundance of nonsense on both sides.

I will say, should she arrive, I'm not convinced there will be many people holding Union Jacks on O'Connell St. The qualities of Britishness are still viewed with antipathy and skepticism amongst a good chunk of the population, and the Saville Inquiry's results will be used to confirm, not refute, that skepticism. There's also little respect for the concept of a monarchy and aristocracy. Neither will help.

The main issue though, isn't republicans. When the Orange Order visited Dublin, it was criminal gangs that stirred up trouble among youths, ultimately provoking riots. A very careful security presence, and lots of endorsements from celebrities (Colin Farrell, U2, etc.) will need to be put in place to allow things run smoothly, and prevent, for example, opportunistic boo-ing. If it ran smoothly however, it would, as the article says, be an historic event.



Comments on the Irish now playing cricket are not a jibe but an observation of three things.

First the encouraging recent performance of the Irish in international cricket is a positive for the sport broadening its pool of genuinely competitive countries.

Secondly it reflects the role that cricket has played over the last 150 years in breaking down religious, ethnic and social barriers in sport. Think Ranji, Basil D'Oliveira, George Headley etc in the West Indies and for some at least removal of the "Gentleman versus Players" distinction which admittedly lasted far too long -but only in the UK.

I also have rather painful recollections of being lectured at length on the subject of "garrison sports" by an Irish republican. It was complete tripe in the late 20th century and is even more ridiculous in the context of this article. To be very clear, I have watched both Gaelic football and hurling, and while enjoying them as spectator sports would argue that beating the English at their own games is the best way to put them in their place. Been working for Australians in cricket since 1877 and New Zealand in Rugby since the early 20th, and South Africa similarly - and Pakistan, India and others in cricket and Bangladesh just the other day. I think Irish beating the English at cricket is far preferable to either side bombing or shooting the other.

You mention Wikipedia but I have no idea what you mean. Most of what I have discussed is covered there.

There is some issue you have - please feel free to expound.

For what it is worth I am of Irish descent...

And if you are looking for a jibe check out my version of your pen name


On the naming issue, I suggest that the The Economist should consult it's own Style Guide which says:

"Ireland is simply Ireland. Although it is a republic, it is not the Republic of Ireland. Neither is it, in English, Eire"


I do think that the apology given in the House of Commons has cleared the air and it has allowed a number of us in Ireland to want to move the relationship between our two countries forward. I think the time has come for Queen Elizabeth II to visit Ireland and she should be welcomed with the normal courtesies afforded to all visiting heads of state.
However, what I do find annoying is the slightly biased or maybe uninformed writing style in the article where terms like Ulster and Southern Ireland and Irish Republic are used. Why can't such an illustrious magazine, such as the economist, just say Northern Ireland to refer to the 6 counties of Ulster in the other jurisdiction, Ireland to refer to our country and the Island of Ireland to greater whole?
I think mutual respect has to start between our people by using terms that do not offend even inadvertently. I look forward to the visit of Queen Elizabeth II to Ireland and I look forward to a renewed greater sharing of a common past and a common future with our closest neighbour.



Sorry for misleading you with the wikipedia comment. I just had a Canadian college read your first post on this thread and he agreed that it just simply came across as condesending but your second comment to the thread implies that this is not the case. The first comment seemed like you didn't know what you were talking about. The wikipedia reference was that Ireland has been playing the sport for well over a century and that you could read all about it on that specific page!

As for rejigging my penname to blueH2Oetc.... thanks for putting a smile on my face.... it's really quite funny; it cheered me up after a crap day in the office :)

I wonder?....

When you read some of the comments here, and indeed hear the views of Irish people, I still very much get the impression that the Queen would be far from welcome in the Irish Republic by the rank and file. It may suit the governments, but I'm sure even the Lady herself would not want to go if not welcome by the people there.

I get the impression that Sinn Fein and other nationalist groups opposition to such a visit would amount to a lot more than just 'traditional rhetoric'. I don't think Gerry Adams' view would be limited to 'I'd rather she didn't'?! Remember, these are people that not that long ago openly tried to , and in one case succeeded, in killing members of the Royal Family. They have an open hatred and distrust of Britain, and the British people, and are now in positions of power.

This needs to be thought through properly me thinks.



Products and events


Take our weekly news quiz to stay on top of the headlines

