I’ve never understood the whole points thing, scholarships, etc. for open comps. I don’t do enough open comps for it to matter – but I’d love to understand it. I’ve tried to look it up and other than the official rules which are like reading a law-book ( in other words make no sense to me!) I can’t find a simple explanation of it all. If anyone can give a layperson’s explanation it would be cool!
I had to clarify. What to which “points” was she referring, exactly?
Maybe you are referring to being top student or top teacher in a competition or a district or in a competition series? If that is the case, what happens is you get a certain amount of points for each entry you are in (or your instructor dances), and then more points for placing higher. Like when I got top student in San Diego it was like 8 points (or something, I don’t exactly remember the point value) for 1st place, 6 for 2nd, down through 6th and then 1 point for participating. You get more points for participating more and for placing higher. Your instructor gets points for the same things, but obviously if they bring more students and dance more often, they earn more points.
So I checked it out, not being familiar with proficiency points. No one had ever mentioned them to me before.
Ellen, I’ve looked at the proficiency point guide and I’m intrigued. Seems to be a complicated system to determine which category you should dance in…what age, what level, as an attempt in making sure people are competing at an appropriate level – not too high or too low. It says in the guide that USA dance will make a database online of the points so I’m now trying to find that. I’m curious to see where I might rank. I’ve always been told that the instructor decides which category you dance at. It seems like the points might be more important for high level amateur competitors or professional couples. I’ll ask Ivan about it, but who knows if he knows anything about it. It does say that you can be disciplined for dancing below your level! Thanks for asking this question. I love learning more about my favorite sport! I’ll keep you updated.
The topic sparked my interest in a number of facets of ballroom dancing that involve points and I had a big ‘ole conversation with Ivan about it after my lesson today.
Sadly, he didn’t know about proficiency points, but he did comment on another type of points used by ballroom studios which I found intriguing. Also, I did a little more research and found on http://DanceForums.com some old comments about the proficiency points. You can see the comments I found here.
First, the database is not current. I don’t even know if you can find it. Someone who is on the USA Dance board must have been in the conversation because he or she commented that they needed someone to volunteer to keep up with the points. I guess you are supposed to keep track of them yourself! Well, I for one, haven’t been doing that.
Second, the link Ellen sent me on the USA Dance page that directs you to the rules about the Proficiency points is outdated. I guess there have been changes (that a couple must now only accrue 200 points instead of the 300 mentioned in the pdf file) that aren’t reflected in that edition of the rules.
But the plot thickens. These mystery proficiency points are only applicable to USA Dance sanctioned events.
USA Dance isn’t the only governing body of ballroom dance.
There are different proficiency points and rules for the National Dance Council of America (NDCA) and the Youth College Network (YCN).
So there are points you accrue in competition. But after my conversation with Ivan, I have learned there are also points you can accrue at a studio. Now, I don’t purport to have expertise in this area because I’ve never danced in a ballroom dance franchise studio. I’m going on what Ivan told me. If things are different, feel free to comment below and fill us all in. At least this is what I gather went on at Ivan’s studio when he was employed by a franchised studio.
Students accrue points and have proficiency tests to determine what level they are at: pre-bronze, bronze, silver, etc. Then packages are sold around getting to the next level. Like for every lesson you take or every figure you learn it’s recorded and there are charts of points and where you are. There are also charts proclaiming which student is which level, so you can compare yourself to other students and follow your and their progress.
To me, this seems a bit weird. I guess it is great for goal setting and is some form of monitoring progress, but just knowing the steps in the gold syllabus doesn’t necessarily, I think, mean you are a gold level dancer – meaning that you might be dancing a gold step with bronze level technique.
What it does do is give a person a sense of being able to put a feather in their cap. I’ve had people ask me what level dancer I am, but since I have no points or proficiency tests to go on, I honestly don’t know. I have no idea what level the steps I know are considered nor my level in terms of technique.
Seems like another VCR manual to me, but at least this one only applies to amateurs. I still don’t know what this means if I’m dancing Pro/Am since my proficiency in Pro/Am shall not be used in determining my amateur proficiency level….though I don’t dance Am/Am, myself!
Sheesh! I think it’s an interesting topic, but still kind of a mystery even after all this writing and after all the various research!
So, now the ball is in your court. Do you know anything about points tracked in ballroom? What do you think of these point systems? Does your studio use them? How? Have you heard of them in the context of NDCA or USA Dance? Have you kept track of yours? What do they mean….really? I’m curious to know.
Ooohhh, I’m a bit nervous writing this post, but I think it is a very important subject that is not often talked about. It kind of relates to my previous post about when learning to dance that you make sure you find an instructor that can teach in a way that you can understand and process. And if it’s not working out, to feel free to move on to a different instructor who can suit your needs. Sometimes that can be a little tricky. One of those situations where it is easier said, than done.
The topic I’m talking about is whether or not as a dance student we are free agents, at liberty to dance with whichever instructor we desire and the sometimes-weird possessiveness that the instructor or studio may exhibit for his/her/its students.
When it all boils down, I personally believe that I am the customer, I am the one paying to learn, and I should be able to go wherever I want to do that.
However, it actually isn’t as black and white as that. It isn’t as easy to navigate as one might think.
Hopefully you can avoid some of the difficulties I’ll mention by doing “dancer-views” before settling on a particular instructor. I plan to write a post later on about how to go about the process of finding and selecting an instructor, so I’ll leave that for another time. However, even if you do your due diligence, it may not always be possible to stay with your current instructor indefinitely. Life happens. I’m with my third instructor, and in both previous cases, there were life events that pushed that change along.
But for now (and for what I hope is a long, long time to come) as you know from the blog, my primary instructor is Ivan, who is an independent dance instructor. He is my #1. Any place I go to take group classes or whatever (unless it is just social dancing or I’m not there enough for it to matter and it’s none of their business) is aware of my instructor. Conversely, Ivan is aware that I take group classes at Inna’s studio, and I often inform him if I go social dancing as well, out of courtesy.
With Ivan, he has made it clear that if I want to dance with other instructors for ballroom, then I need to not dance with him. Coaching would be a different situation, or a lesson with Marietta or Nona as a one time deal for styling or something would be fine too, and he’d know about it.
But if I want to learn something that he doesn’t have expertise in, like West Coast Swing, or Argentine Tango, then I just have to tell him my desire and he’d be cool with that. That is the arrangement we have set up. But the point is, we had a conversation about it. At no point did I go behind his back and do things. I wouldn’t want to risk losing him as an instructor. We have this agreement set up and I respect it.
Somehow, however, I’ve managed to be dancing at like three different places (sometimes more), but this is not, from what I’ve heard, the “norm” when it comes to ballroom dancing. And if you are going to go that road, it is extremely, extremely important to be respectful of the professionals at each location, as well as their students, and the relationships between them. It is extremely, extremely important to be upfront and clear on what relationship you have to each place you dance. Otherwise, things can get very messy, very quickly!
From my past personal experience, and from that of others who have shared with me, some teachers and studios can become almost possessive of their students. I can even understand it, to a point. They want to protect their business and that only makes sense. However, I feel like it comes from a scarcity mindset – the idea that the instructor or studio has to keep the student away from any other dance influences for fear that the new or different dance instructor or class may “steal” the student away is focused on a fear of losing something. From my perspective, it isn’t possible to steal a student. If you are providing the value a student is looking for, they won’t go anywhere, no matter how many “other” group classes they take, or instructors they are exposed to. This would be an abundant mindset.
But the fact is, some of the studios just don’t offer everything a person might be looking for. Not everyone offers Lindy Hop, or ballet. If I can’t get those at my primary studio, and I want them, I should be at liberty to go elsewhere to find them. My primary studio can always take that as feedback and grow such areas if they so desire. But to prevent me, threaten me, or guilt me into not doing more dancing if I have that desire, I feel is poor behavior. To allow myself to let any threat, or guilt deter me from what I really want is not okay either.
However, there is really something to be said for sticking with one instructor or studio when its good for you, even if it is tough. Sometimes there are issues to work through, even if you adore your instructor. I’ve had a lesson or two with Ivan where we had to get clear on a few things and it wasn’t necessarily comfortable. But I’d choose being uncomfortable and having open, honest communication, than to lose a fab instructor any day of the week. That is just me.
Again, as mentioned in a previous post, there isn’t necessarily one “right” way, the be-all and end-all way of dancing. That means that each instructor you learn from will give you some similar information, and some very different information than others. This can be very confusing and muddle the clarity of your dancing. A person has to be careful of not always thinking the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. It might be very green right where you are. Sticking it out with your instructor may be the best choice you ever make. Also, if you do decide to receive instruction from multiple sources, be aware that you may need to filter some of the information and make sure that you apply those things that will best serve you while leaving the rest behind. This will take discernment on your part.
If the time does come when you feel the need to change instructors, I’d encourage you to do it in as clean, clear, and honest manner as possible. Although some people just stop taking lessons, not only can this strain your relationship with the instructor and the studio, but it steals the opportunity for the instructor or studio to respond to your issue, and even if the issue can’t be amended, it robs them of the feedback you could provide so they don’t recreate the same pitfall with another student.
So, to answer the primary question of this post, am I a free agent? Yes…and no. Yes, because I take classes at a variety of places that I feel will enhance and enrich my dancing. But no, because I am very clear that Ivan is my primary ballroom instructor and I’m not going anywhere else for that. I mean, the entire relationship is built on trust. You can’t have trust if you are not engaging in open, honest communication or going behind someone’s back. I guarantee it will show up in your dancing.
What about you? Do you only dance with one instructor at one location? Why? How does that work for you? Or do you dance a lot of places? What positive or negative experiences can you share around that? What advice would you give someone who was considering dancing more than one place or changing instructors? I’d love to hear your thoughts!