# Statistical probility, baye's theorem

• Dec 22nd 2011, 01:14 AM
brentvos
Statistical probility, bayes' theorem
Hi,

I am looking for a solution to the following problem, which according to the question can be solved using bayes' theorem:

The same event occurs a 1000 times
Every time, the chance of it being positive is 17%
Everytime 11 events in a row are negative, the 12th is positive with a 100% chance.
There are no external events apart from the aforementioned rules
What is the expected amount of positive events, and how did you reach this conclusion?

My approach was invalid because it was to simplified, yet the end result was close to the actual answer (which still hasn't been provided)
(1000-1000/12)*0.17+1000/12=239.17

Does anyone have a solution?
Edit: recieved a hint: the chance that the event will be negative 11 times in a row is 12.69%. This implies that that number has something to do with it, otherwise the tip would not have been given
• Dec 22nd 2011, 03:10 AM
Plato
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
Quote:

Originally Posted by brentvos
The same event occurs a 1000 times
Every time, the chance of it being positive is 17%
Every 12th event will be positive regardless of chance.
There are no external events apart from the aforementioned rules

That is simply a series of statements.
What is the question?
• Dec 22nd 2011, 03:36 AM
brentvos
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
The question is:

What's the amount of positive events given the conditions, and how did you come to that conclusion.

Thanks for the help!
• Dec 22nd 2011, 04:09 AM
Soroban
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
Hello, brentvos!

Quote:

I am looking for a solution to the following problem which,
according to the question, can be solved using Bayes' Theorem.

I don't understand the hint; this is not conditonal probability.

The same event occurs a 1000 times
Every time, the chance of it being positive is 17%
Every 12th event will be positive regardless of chance.
There are no external events apart from the aforementioned rules
Find the expected number of positive events.

My approach was invalid because it was too simplified, .
How do you know this?
yet the end result was close to the actual answer .
And how do you know this
. . (which still hasn't been provided). . . . . . . . . . .
if you don't know the answer?

Every 12th event will be positive. .It will be positive.$\displaystyle \left[\frac{1000}{12}\right] = 83$ times.

For the other 917 events, it will be positive 17% of the time.
. . $\displaystyle 0.17 \times 917 \,=\,155.89$ expected positive events.

Therefore, the expectation is: .$\displaystyle 83 + 155.89 \:=\:238.89$ positive events.

• Dec 22nd 2011, 04:16 AM
brentvos
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
The question giver told us it had something to do with Bayes' theorem. I didn't understand the hint either, but hoped one of you would.

As for your answer, except for different decimals, I had the same answer as you did. This was incorrect, as told by the question giver.

He gave another tip, saying that the possibility of not having a positive event 11 times in a row is 12.9% thereby declaring that it has something to do with the given statement.

I'll edit the original post to include this
• Dec 22nd 2011, 04:44 AM
Plato
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
Quote:

Originally Posted by brentvos
The question giver told us it had something to do with Bayes' theorem. I didn't understand the hint either, but hoped one of you would.
As for your answer, except for different decimals, I had the same answer as you did. This was incorrect, as told by the question giver.
He gave another tip, saying that the possibility of not having a positive event 11 times in a row is 12.9% thereby declaring that it has something to do with the given statement.

Well I agree with Soroban's answer.
Perhaps we all are misreading the intended question.
But rather I suspect that this a case in which the author has a very specific method in mind. So for someone not privy to his/her style any effort at a solution would simply guessing.
• Dec 22nd 2011, 05:03 AM
brentvos
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
Ah I've found the mistake.

I copied it wrong.

I changed OP, but the change is:

Every time 11 events in a row have been resulted negative, the 12th is positive.
(the first 11 are negative, the 12th therefore is positive, regardless of any previous chance)

Sorry for the mistake, would you be so kind to look at it again?
• Dec 28th 2011, 06:44 AM
awkward
Re: Statistical probility, bayes' theorem
Quote:

Originally Posted by brentvos
Hi,

I am looking for a solution to the following problem, which according to the question can be solved using bayes' theorem:

The same event occurs a 1000 times
Every time, the chance of it being positive is 17%
Everytime 11 events in a row are negative, the 12th is positive with a 100% chance.
There are no external events apart from the aforementioned rules
What is the expected amount of positive events, and how did you reach this conclusion?

My approach was invalid because it was to simplified, yet the end result was close to the actual answer (which still hasn't been provided)
(1000-1000/12)*0.17+1000/12=239.17
$\displaystyle 11 \times 0.17 + 989 \times [0.83^{11} + (1 - 0.83^{11}) * 0.17]$
The content structure of the passage is a forum post where a user presents a probability problem and seeks a solution, including the expected number of positive events over 1000 trials with specific conditions. The user also provides their own attempt at a solution and mentions a hint given by the question giver.
single_question_with_answer

here is the analysis:

1. the passage contains a mathematical question: "what is the expected amount of positive events, and how did you reach this conclusion?"
2. an answer to the mathematical question is provided in the text: the user's attempt at a solution is given as \((1000 - 1000/12) \times 0.17 + 1000/12 = 239.17\).

however, the user mentions that their approach was invalid and that the question giver provided a hint: "the chance that the event will be negative 11 times in a row is 12.69%."

to solve the problem correctly, we need to account for the condition that every 12th event is positive if the previous 11 events are negative. here is a step-by-step solution:

1. **calculate the probability
Given a text passage, determine:
    1. If it contains a mathematical question (including word problems or calculations)
    2. If an answer to that mathematical question is provided in the text

First, describe the content structure you found in 1-2 sentences.

Then provide your analysis in the following format:
TYPE: <one of the following values>
- NO_QUESTION
- SINGLE_QUESTION
- SINGLE_QUESTION_WITH_ANSWER
- MULTIPLE_QUESTIONS
- MULTIPLE_QUESTIONS_WITH_ANSWERS
system
# Statistical probility, baye's theorem

• Dec 22nd 2011, 01:14 AM
brentvos
Statistical probility, bayes' theorem
Hi,

I am looking for a solution to the following problem, which according to the question can be solved using bayes' theorem:

The same event occurs a 1000 times
Every time, the chance of it being positive is 17%
Everytime 11 events in a row are negative, the 12th is positive with a 100% chance.
There are no external events apart from the aforementioned rules
What is the expected amount of positive events, and how did you reach this conclusion?

My approach was invalid because it was to simplified, yet the end result was close to the actual answer (which still hasn't been provided)
(1000-1000/12)*0.17+1000/12=239.17

Does anyone have a solution?
Edit: recieved a hint: the chance that the event will be negative 11 times in a row is 12.69%. This implies that that number has something to do with it, otherwise the tip would not have been given
• Dec 22nd 2011, 03:10 AM
Plato
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
Quote:

Originally Posted by brentvos
The same event occurs a 1000 times
Every time, the chance of it being positive is 17%
Every 12th event will be positive regardless of chance.
There are no external events apart from the aforementioned rules

That is simply a series of statements.
What is the question?
• Dec 22nd 2011, 03:36 AM
brentvos
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
The question is:

What's the amount of positive events given the conditions, and how did you come to that conclusion.

Thanks for the help!
• Dec 22nd 2011, 04:09 AM
Soroban
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
Hello, brentvos!

Quote:

I am looking for a solution to the following problem which,
according to the question, can be solved using Bayes' Theorem.

I don't understand the hint; this is not conditonal probability.

The same event occurs a 1000 times
Every time, the chance of it being positive is 17%
Every 12th event will be positive regardless of chance.
There are no external events apart from the aforementioned rules
Find the expected number of positive events.

My approach was invalid because it was too simplified, .
How do you know this?
yet the end result was close to the actual answer .
And how do you know this
. . (which still hasn't been provided). . . . . . . . . . .
if you don't know the answer?

Every 12th event will be positive. .It will be positive.$\displaystyle \left[\frac{1000}{12}\right] = 83$ times.

For the other 917 events, it will be positive 17% of the time.
. . $\displaystyle 0.17 \times 917 \,=\,155.89$ expected positive events.

Therefore, the expectation is: .$\displaystyle 83 + 155.89 \:=\:238.89$ positive events.

• Dec 22nd 2011, 04:16 AM
brentvos
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
The question giver told us it had something to do with Bayes' theorem. I didn't understand the hint either, but hoped one of you would.

As for your answer, except for different decimals, I had the same answer as you did. This was incorrect, as told by the question giver.

He gave another tip, saying that the possibility of not having a positive event 11 times in a row is 12.9% thereby declaring that it has something to do with the given statement.

I'll edit the original post to include this
• Dec 22nd 2011, 04:44 AM
Plato
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
Quote:

Originally Posted by brentvos
The question giver told us it had something to do with Bayes' theorem. I didn't understand the hint either, but hoped one of you would.
As for your answer, except for different decimals, I had the same answer as you did. This was incorrect, as told by the question giver.
He gave another tip, saying that the possibility of not having a positive event 11 times in a row is 12.9% thereby declaring that it has something to do with the given statement.

Well I agree with Soroban's answer.
Perhaps we all are misreading the intended question.
But rather I suspect that this a case in which the author has a very specific method in mind. So for someone not privy to his/her style any effort at a solution would simply guessing.
• Dec 22nd 2011, 05:03 AM
brentvos
Re: Statistical probility, baye's theorem
Ah I've found the mistake.

I copied it wrong.

I changed OP, but the change is:

Every time 11 events in a row have been resulted negative, the 12th is positive.
(the first 11 are negative, the 12th therefore is positive, regardless of any previous chance)

Sorry for the mistake, would you be so kind to look at it again?
• Dec 28th 2011, 06:44 AM
awkward
Re: Statistical probility, bayes' theorem
Quote:

Originally Posted by brentvos
Hi,

I am looking for a solution to the following problem, which according to the question can be solved using bayes' theorem:

The same event occurs a 1000 times
Every time, the chance of it being positive is 17%
Everytime 11 events in a row are negative, the 12th is positive with a 100% chance.
There are no external events apart from the aforementioned rules
What is the expected amount of positive events, and how did you reach this conclusion?

My approach was invalid because it was to simplified, yet the end result was close to the actual answer (which still hasn't been provided)
(1000-1000/12)*0.17+1000/12=239.17
$\displaystyle 11 \times 0.17 + 989 \times [0.83^{11} + (1 - 0.83^{11}) * 0.17]$
user
The content structure of the passage is a forum post where a user presents a probability problem and seeks a solution, including the expected number of positive events over 1000 trials with specific conditions. The user also provides their own attempt at a solution and mentions a hint given by the question giver.

TYPE: SINGLE_QUESTION_WITH_ANSWER

Here is the analysis:

1. The passage contains a mathematical question: "What is the expected amount of positive events, and how did you reach this conclusion?"
2. An answer to the mathematical question is provided in the text: The user's attempt at a solution is given as \((1000 - 1000/12) \times 0.17 + 1000/12 = 239.17\).

However, the user mentions that their approach was invalid and that the question giver provided a hint: "the chance that the event will be negative 11 times in a row is 12.69%."

To solve the problem correctly, we need to account for the condition that every 12th event is positive if the previous 11 events are negative. Here is a step-by-step solution:

1. **Calculate the probability