• Falmarri
In summary, there is no solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide. However, if you ignore or completely specify the mechanical properties of the spheres (and any interaction between the two other than direct contact), you can solve the problem.
Falmarri
Is there a solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide? I know how to do it for equal mass and radius, finding the line of the collision, and then the components of velocity perpendicular to that line don't change. Does that hold true for all spherical collisions or just uniform spheres?

I just took a look at that. That doesn't seem to have a solution for when the spheres are offset. For example if sphere 1 is 1 meter, sphere 2 is 3 meters. Sphere one is at x=0 with velocity y=2. Sphere two is at x=1 with velocity y=-2.

Falmarri said:
Is there a solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide? I know how to do it for equal mass and radius, finding the line of the collision, and then the components of velocity perpendicular to that line don't change. Does that hold true for all spherical collisions or just uniform spheres?

IMO under ideal situations where you do not consider the rotation of the sphere, the diameter should not matter.

Rest you can figure out the final velocity of the 2 balls (but only assuming the above is true) using conservation of kinetic energy and momentum.

You need to make 2 sets of equations from fact that K.E and momentum of the arrangement will remain the same after collision (one from momentum and one from the K.E.).

Unless you ignore or completely specify the mechanical properties of the spheres (and any interaction between the two other than direct contact), you cannot completely solve the problem.

To see if there is a geometric interpretation I would sketch the problem with at the point of contact. Draw a radius on each sphere (drawn as a circle in a plane) to the contact point, and put up a velocity vector on each sphere. The impulse force should act along the common radius and have x-y components. It may be possible to treat the spheres as perfectly elastic and resolve the momentum components. These are just my first thoughts on a possible approach ...

I posted this on a programming forum as well, as that's the end result of this problem. But here is where I'm at; am I correct so far?

I'm working on the math now. And this is what I have, am I on the right track?

Ball 1 has mass M1 and is at p1=[2,5] with v1 = [-1,0], ball 2 has mass M2 and is at p2=[4,1] with v2=[1,0]. Let's assume ball 1 is 3 meters and ball 2 is 2 meters (So they're colliding). Then that means the angle between the velocity of ball 2 vector and the line between the two balls is

x1 = cos theta1 = v1.(p1-p2)/root((v1.v1 * (p1-p2).(p1-p2))).

And the angle between the velocity of ball 1 vector and the line between the two balls is

x2 = cos theta2 = v2.(p2-p1)/root((v2.v2 * (p2-p1).(p2-p1))).

And so the portion of the velocity vector perpendicular to that angle is the same before and after the collision. Right? So

||v1i|| * x1 = ||v1f|| * x1

||v2i|| * x2 = ||v2f|| * x2

And since x = cos theta, sin theta =

root(1-x{1,2}^2) = y{1,2}

And M1 * || V1i || * y1 + M2 * || V2i || * y2 = M1 * || V1f || * y1 + M2 * || V2f || * y2

Am I right so far? Now I have 1 equation for 2 unknowns, do I use KE for the other equation? I assume I break up the KE equations as well along my theta1, theta2?

(Sorry, It's been almost 5 years since I've taken mechanical physics. And I hope you can read my equations)

If you have solid spheres of radius R and mass m which transfer angular momentum, the moment of inertia is
I = (2/5)MR2,
the angular momentum is Iw, and the rotational kinetic energy is
E = (1/2)Iw2[/SUP]
where w is the angular velocity in radians per second.

This is also important if they are rolling without slipping.

Bob S

I am not taking into account rotation, or friction.

Physics by Halliday and Resnick says the problem of 2 or 3 dimensional collisions cannot be solved only from knowledge of initial motion of the particles, except if they stick together after the collision (totally inelastic case). This is because you will have three equations and four unknowns (two components of velocity for each body). You either need knowledge of the force interaction, or knowledge of one of the bodies after the collision, in addition to the initial motion, to solve such problems.

I'm pretty good at shooting pool (pocket billiards) so I wonder how my body anticipates the result so well?

If the solution is unsolvable, what approximations are used to do this kind of simulation in software? Games, etc?

I seem to remember, at A level, having been given problems about colliding spheres ('billiard balls') with a coefficient of restitution of less than 1 and being able to solve them using momentum conservation and using separation velocities, modified by the restitution coefficient. I thought we did it assuming something like no change to tangential velocity (frictionless contact) and it came out alright with that approximation.

My textbook says you can always pick the reference frame such that one sphere is stationary. The general problem appears to be addressed under the keyword phrase "collision detection and response" in the game developer literature. You could search for some simple tutorials and see what turns up.

Falmarri said:
Is there a solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide? I know how to do it for equal mass and radius, finding the line of the collision, and then the components of velocity perpendicular to that line don't change. Does that hold true for all spherical collisions or just uniform spheres?

I now think the problem has a solution when b is known, but I'm unable to find a reference or derive the exact solution. Here are some interesting related resources.

Flash player simulating two-diminsional collision:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/restitution.shtml

For General Reference Billiard ball collision (2 page pdf):

http://billiards.colostate.edu/technical_proofs/TP_3-1.pdf

1. What are spherical collisions?

Spherical collisions occur when two objects with a spherical shape collide with each other.

2. How do you solve for non-equal mass and radius in spherical collisions?

The solution for non-equal mass and radius in spherical collisions involves using conservation of momentum and conservation of energy equations to determine the final velocities of the two objects after the collision.

3. What factors affect the outcome of spherical collisions?

The outcome of spherical collisions is affected by factors such as the mass, radius, and velocity of the objects, as well as the angle and direction of the collision.

4. Can spherical collisions be perfectly elastic?

Yes, spherical collisions can be perfectly elastic if there is no loss of kinetic energy during the collision. This means that the objects will bounce off each other with the same speed and direction as before the collision.

5. How are spherical collisions different from other types of collisions?

Spherical collisions are different from other types of collisions because they involve objects with a spherical shape. This means that the collision dynamics and equations used to solve for the outcome may be different than those used for collisions involving other shapes.

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The text passage is a discussion thread about the mechanics of collisions between two spheres of non-equal mass and radius. It includes a primary question about the solvability of such a problem and several responses that provide insights, approximations, and references to further resources.
single_question_with_answer

the passage contains a single mathematical question: "is there a solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide?" the question is addressed with multiple responses, including discussions on the conditions under which the problem can be solved, approximations, and references to relevant concepts and resources. therefore, the type is single_question_with_answer.
Given a text passage, determine:
    1. If it contains a mathematical question (including word problems or calculations)
    2. If an answer to that mathematical question is provided in the text

First, describe the content structure you found in 1-2 sentences.

Then provide your analysis in the following format:
TYPE: <one of the following values>
- NO_QUESTION
- SINGLE_QUESTION
- SINGLE_QUESTION_WITH_ANSWER
- MULTIPLE_QUESTIONS
- MULTIPLE_QUESTIONS_WITH_ANSWERS
system
• Falmarri
In summary, there is no solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide. However, if you ignore or completely specify the mechanical properties of the spheres (and any interaction between the two other than direct contact), you can solve the problem.
Falmarri
Is there a solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide? I know how to do it for equal mass and radius, finding the line of the collision, and then the components of velocity perpendicular to that line don't change. Does that hold true for all spherical collisions or just uniform spheres?

I just took a look at that. That doesn't seem to have a solution for when the spheres are offset. For example if sphere 1 is 1 meter, sphere 2 is 3 meters. Sphere one is at x=0 with velocity y=2. Sphere two is at x=1 with velocity y=-2.

Falmarri said:
Is there a solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide? I know how to do it for equal mass and radius, finding the line of the collision, and then the components of velocity perpendicular to that line don't change. Does that hold true for all spherical collisions or just uniform spheres?

IMO under ideal situations where you do not consider the rotation of the sphere, the diameter should not matter.

Rest you can figure out the final velocity of the 2 balls (but only assuming the above is true) using conservation of kinetic energy and momentum.

You need to make 2 sets of equations from fact that K.E and momentum of the arrangement will remain the same after collision (one from momentum and one from the K.E.).

Unless you ignore or completely specify the mechanical properties of the spheres (and any interaction between the two other than direct contact), you cannot completely solve the problem.

To see if there is a geometric interpretation I would sketch the problem with at the point of contact. Draw a radius on each sphere (drawn as a circle in a plane) to the contact point, and put up a velocity vector on each sphere. The impulse force should act along the common radius and have x-y components. It may be possible to treat the spheres as perfectly elastic and resolve the momentum components. These are just my first thoughts on a possible approach ...

I posted this on a programming forum as well, as that's the end result of this problem. But here is where I'm at; am I correct so far?

I'm working on the math now. And this is what I have, am I on the right track?

Ball 1 has mass M1 and is at p1=[2,5] with v1 = [-1,0], ball 2 has mass M2 and is at p2=[4,1] with v2=[1,0]. Let's assume ball 1 is 3 meters and ball 2 is 2 meters (So they're colliding). Then that means the angle between the velocity of ball 2 vector and the line between the two balls is

x1 = cos theta1 = v1.(p1-p2)/root((v1.v1 * (p1-p2).(p1-p2))).

And the angle between the velocity of ball 1 vector and the line between the two balls is

x2 = cos theta2 = v2.(p2-p1)/root((v2.v2 * (p2-p1).(p2-p1))).

And so the portion of the velocity vector perpendicular to that angle is the same before and after the collision. Right? So

||v1i|| * x1 = ||v1f|| * x1

||v2i|| * x2 = ||v2f|| * x2

And since x = cos theta, sin theta =

root(1-x{1,2}^2) = y{1,2}

And M1 * || V1i || * y1 + M2 * || V2i || * y2 = M1 * || V1f || * y1 + M2 * || V2f || * y2

Am I right so far? Now I have 1 equation for 2 unknowns, do I use KE for the other equation? I assume I break up the KE equations as well along my theta1, theta2?

(Sorry, It's been almost 5 years since I've taken mechanical physics. And I hope you can read my equations)

If you have solid spheres of radius R and mass m which transfer angular momentum, the moment of inertia is
I = (2/5)MR2,
the angular momentum is Iw, and the rotational kinetic energy is
E = (1/2)Iw2[/SUP]
where w is the angular velocity in radians per second.

This is also important if they are rolling without slipping.

Bob S

I am not taking into account rotation, or friction.

Physics by Halliday and Resnick says the problem of 2 or 3 dimensional collisions cannot be solved only from knowledge of initial motion of the particles, except if they stick together after the collision (totally inelastic case). This is because you will have three equations and four unknowns (two components of velocity for each body). You either need knowledge of the force interaction, or knowledge of one of the bodies after the collision, in addition to the initial motion, to solve such problems.

I'm pretty good at shooting pool (pocket billiards) so I wonder how my body anticipates the result so well?

If the solution is unsolvable, what approximations are used to do this kind of simulation in software? Games, etc?

I seem to remember, at A level, having been given problems about colliding spheres ('billiard balls') with a coefficient of restitution of less than 1 and being able to solve them using momentum conservation and using separation velocities, modified by the restitution coefficient. I thought we did it assuming something like no change to tangential velocity (frictionless contact) and it came out alright with that approximation.

My textbook says you can always pick the reference frame such that one sphere is stationary. The general problem appears to be addressed under the keyword phrase "collision detection and response" in the game developer literature. You could search for some simple tutorials and see what turns up.

Falmarri said:
Is there a solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide? I know how to do it for equal mass and radius, finding the line of the collision, and then the components of velocity perpendicular to that line don't change. Does that hold true for all spherical collisions or just uniform spheres?

I now think the problem has a solution when b is known, but I'm unable to find a reference or derive the exact solution. Here are some interesting related resources.

Flash player simulating two-diminsional collision:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/restitution.shtml

For General Reference Billiard ball collision (2 page pdf):

http://billiards.colostate.edu/technical_proofs/TP_3-1.pdf

1. What are spherical collisions?

Spherical collisions occur when two objects with a spherical shape collide with each other.

2. How do you solve for non-equal mass and radius in spherical collisions?

The solution for non-equal mass and radius in spherical collisions involves using conservation of momentum and conservation of energy equations to determine the final velocities of the two objects after the collision.

3. What factors affect the outcome of spherical collisions?

The outcome of spherical collisions is affected by factors such as the mass, radius, and velocity of the objects, as well as the angle and direction of the collision.

4. Can spherical collisions be perfectly elastic?

Yes, spherical collisions can be perfectly elastic if there is no loss of kinetic energy during the collision. This means that the objects will bounce off each other with the same speed and direction as before the collision.

5. How are spherical collisions different from other types of collisions?

Spherical collisions are different from other types of collisions because they involve objects with a spherical shape. This means that the collision dynamics and equations used to solve for the outcome may be different than those used for collisions involving other shapes.

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user
The text passage is a discussion thread about the mechanics of collisions between two spheres of non-equal mass and radius. It includes a primary question about the solvability of such a problem and several responses that provide insights, approximations, and references to further resources.

TYPE: SINGLE_QUESTION_WITH_ANSWER

The passage contains a single mathematical question: "Is there a solution to finding out how exactly 2 spheres of non-equal mass and radius rebound after they collide?" The question is addressed with multiple responses, including discussions on the conditions under which the problem can be solved, approximations, and references to relevant concepts and resources. Therefore, the type is SINGLE_QUESTION_WITH_ANSWER.