{"action":"created","comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/InFact-coop/InFact/pulls/comments/112321911","pull_request_review_id":33628402,"id":112321911,"diff_hunk":"@@ -0,0 +1,115 @@\n+# Meeting with Sion from Calverts (19/04/17 5.30pm)\n+Attendance: @jsms90 @nogainbar @bradreeder @sohilpandya @sofer\n+\n+## \"Agenda\" (discovered organically, not pre-determined)\n++ Very brief explanation of our history and current situation\n++ Sion: [How do you deal with non-coding elements in-house or through collaboration with external companies/individuals?](#in-house-vs-collaboration)\n++ Us: [What are generally the main difficulties for an emerging co-op?](#potential-difficulties)\n++ Points that emerged, which we need to answer internally together\n+  + [Employment and rates](#employment-and-rates)\n+  + [Work first or structure first?](#work-first-or-structure-first)\n+  + [Membership](#membership)\n+  + [Governance](#governance)\n+  + [Increasing in size](#increasing-in-size)\n+  + [Relationship to FAC](#relationship-to-fac)\n++ Us: [How to go about getting advice/training/support - particular schemes that we can apply to?](#schemes)\n+\n+## Minutes\n+### History & where we are now\n+See issue #17\n+\n+### In-house vs. collaboration\n+Sion: When you say an \"agency\", you're talking about an Enterprise, made up of FAC graduates?\n+Do you work with creative designers? Are you looking to collaborate with other partners on projects? There are so many skills that come into running a project.\n+\n+Noga/Sohil: Lucky to have a multi-skilled team who have interests in more areas than coding. Keep it in-house for now.\n+\n+Sion: I can see how this group would evolve very quickly. You have an \"in\" into paid work. You have an interest in a particular sector. I think it's very interesting that you're rotating tasks. It's very unusual in Tech but actually very common in worker co-ops.\n+\n+As we (Calverts) grew, we became more specialised. After a while it became evident that we needed someone to do the sales and marketing. There was silence in the meeting and I found myself saying \"I'll do that\". Little did I know, that would be what I would end up being my role.\n+\n+When Calverts started, the average age was early-20s. Over time, the average age was in the 40s. Made an active drive to hire young people. There's a new spirit brought to the business from that.\n+\n+If you've got a sympathetic client base, with open expectations, it seems like your offering would work.\n+\n+### Potential difficulties\n+What are the potential difficulties for an emerging co-op? What are the red flags that we should think about because down the line they can become more and more complex?\n++ Having a common vision. Keeping that strong. Making it explicit. Writing it down - having a manifesto/vision. That's your membership orientation document.\n++ Pitfalls of being in a trading enterprise will arise naturally and you will learn that as you go\n++ Business administration e.g. bookkeeping, maintaining register of members, running your governence stuff (making sure everything is recorded well). Do you have people who specialise in business admin or do you rotate those tasks? How do you service those \"rather boring\" aspects, that aren't core to what you're producing?\n++ Political disagreements within the group. Because the enterprise was growing and we had work, everything looked like it was going well, we didn't address it. We became inefficient and it affected the quality of the work. We tried to solve it by bringing more people in.\n++ Open book management. Making finances available to people in a way that they can understand. If you don't understand it, you can't be in control of it. When co-ops get into difficulties, it's when things aren't transparent. Maybe somebody whose role is dealing with financial information decides to sit on something and try and solve it, thinking \"they don't need to know this\". When you veer away from open, honest, solidarity-based organisation.\n++ Where you get really unclear about membership. Clear expression about the process of becoming a member / falling out of membership. I see lots of co-ops saying \"we all know really\" but not making it explicit. Something goes wrong 6 months down the line, but nobody knows quite how to deal with it, because nobody knows how to deal with it or quite what happened.\n+\n+### Employment and rates\n+Calverts has the same day rate if you're trained. Members are employed, not freelancers. £20ph NET. Charge-out rate £95ph.\n+\n+The economy of hours is incredibly important. In this enterprise, which needs all of us, whatever role we are carrying out, we consider every role to be important in the proper functioning of the co-op. Our fees to clients are pretty much average for a firm of our size. Our overall wage bill is roughly average. But the way that we divide it is radical.\n+\n+Depends on employed vs self-employed vs mixture.\n+\n+To some degree, you learn these things as you go along. You develop the skills as you need them.\n+\n+Co-ops are people organising around the question of work.\n+\n+You can build flexibility into an employment model. A zero-hours contract model can be helpful, in order to retain flexibility but still be employed and gain all the benefits of being employed.\n+\n+### Work first or structure first?\n+Noga: would you agree that we focus on getting some work done together and worry about structures once we know that we have that working?\n+Sion: It's a bit chicken and egg - whether you get governance & pay defined before work or start work first. But you don't want to embark on some work together without the same vision in 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you want this to appear on a new line you need to have a line break between these.","created_at":"2017-04-19T21:46:25Z","updated_at":"2017-04-19T21:47:16Z","html_url":"https://github.com/InFact-coop/InFact/pull/20#discussion_r112321911","pull_request_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/InFact-coop/InFact/pulls/20","_links":{"self":{"href":"https://api.github.com/repos/InFact-coop/InFact/pulls/comments/112321911"},"html":{"href":"https://github.com/InFact-coop/InFact/pull/20#discussion_r112321911"},"pull_request":{"href":"https://api.github.com/repos/InFact-coop/InFact/pulls/20"}}},"pull_request":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/InFact-coop/InFact/pulls/20","id":116635388,"html_url":"https://github.com/InFact-coop/InFact/pull/20","diff_url":"https://github.com/InFact-coop/InFact/pull/20.diff","patch_url":"https://github.com/InFact-coop/InFact/pull/20.patch","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/InFact-coop/InFact/issues/20","number":20,"state":"open","locked":false,"title":"add minutes from 19th April meeting with Sion","user":{"login":"jsms90","id":15656538,"avatar_url":"https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/15656538?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90","html_url":"https://github.com/jsms90","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/jsms90/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"body":"Fairly comprehensive minutes.\r\n\r\nBut any time I was asking questions, I didn't write 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