{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/valueflows/valueflows/issues/228","repository_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/valueflows/valueflows","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/valueflows/valueflows/issues/228/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/valueflows/valueflows/issues/228/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/valueflows/valueflows/issues/228/events","html_url":"https://github.com/valueflows/valueflows/issues/228","id":235934840,"number":228,"title":"Possible VF apps: freelancers and refugees","user":{"login":"fosterlynn","id":3776081,"avatar_url":"https://avatars3.githubusercontent.com/u/3776081?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn","html_url":"https://github.com/fosterlynn","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/fosterlynn/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[],"state":"open","locked":false,"assignee":null,"assignees":[],"milestone":null,"comments":0,"created_at":"2017-06-14T16:18:31Z","updated_at":"2017-06-14T16:59:57Z","closed_at":null,"body":"From the welcome chat, see detail below, but here are a couple key points pulled out:\r\n\r\nAlex:\r\nSo what we hope for is an easy server that i can just npm install valueflows and then npm start and the server will run and have a web interface\r\nand hopefully an easy way to connect via API to services like our accounting service (http://quickfile.co.uk) or even the official government websites and our bank account\r\n\r\nand have some kind of market place that gives you an overview over products and services offered by others and also \"construction sites\" (like what resoures exist under which terms and conditions so that you can start be a little \"entrepreneur\" (like the guy who printed and sold a 3D model in our past printer example)\r\n\r\nLynn:\r\nso, VF is vocabulary and protocols, not software - although we hope there will be lots of \"native\" VF apps, see here https://www.valueflo.ws/introduction/usedfor.html\r\n\r\n======================\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n09:00\r\n@bhaugen hey :grinning: i hope you remember me. It's been at least a few month. I'd like to pick up the conversation from back then about how to integrate valueflo.ws\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n09:02\r\nhi alex, welcome back :grinning:\r\nBob Haugen\r\n@bhaugen\r\n09:22\r\n:wave:\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n09:34\r\nhello @fosterlynn :grinning: yes\r\nWe still have http://refugeeswork.com and we have our software agency http://fairydust.agency\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n09:35\r\nhow is it all going?\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n09:35\r\nI'm currently working on a project for a client, but we would like to connect to other companies or self employed individuals that use valueflows\r\nyes - it's kind of fine. My girlfriend and me were living in asia for the last 8 months teaching ppl javascript\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n09:36\r\nwow\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n09:36\r\nwe still have an active group in taiwan which we will visit again this winter :grinning:\r\nthey are currently self organizing once a week to go through our program http://wizardamigos.com and the related app http://app.wizardamigos.com\r\nWe want to outsource paid tasks to those learners in the future\r\nand also to refugees\r\nFor now, most of our team of self employed individuals is listed on http://codingamigos.com\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n09:38\r\n\r\n    I'm currently working on a project for a client, but we would like to connect to other companies or self employed individuals that use valueflows\r\n\r\nare you looking to have all the companies and people implement a valueflows api, or are you looking for people who already have implemented it? (there is not much implemented yet, we're still very early stage)\r\nbut we would definitely work with you to do so\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n09:38\r\nWe try to update an overview over this ecosystem of related projects on https://github.com/SquatUp/projects\r\nyes both\r\nwe would like to connect to people who already have it implemented and then slowly roll it out to others\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n09:43\r\nwe're doing an api (just barely started though) for some of FairCoop's software that will be VF - and there are some other implementations starting up, but none done enough yet for you to just hook in to them that I know of... pinging @elf-pavlik to see how far along Vientos is\r\nbut I think that for your group, we would need to implement for all of them at once\r\ni'm looking at your links.... you have a lot going on!\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n09:51\r\nand you should be aware that not all of the vocabulary has been agreed to.... but there is nothing like a live project to push that along, and we would commit to work to your needs as best we can (I would be happy to work directly with you)\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n10:08\r\nhere is the currently published state, first release: https://www.valueflo.ws/\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n10:59\r\nok\r\nWhen i read through http://valueflo.ws i get lost. It all reads nice, but i would love to start more basic.\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:00\r\nsure\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:00\r\nAlso, we are a network of self employed ppl. All the ppl on codingamigos.com have their own legal entities (e.g. UK limited)\r\nor sometimes \"sole proprietors\"\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:00\r\nyes\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:00\r\nor how that's called :stuck_out_tongue: ... normal freelancers\r\nSo they would all like to host their own instance\r\nand then connect to others as necessary\r\nIt would be very very cool to have some kind of marketplace to see\r\n...like in the 3D printer example\r\nwhat products/services are offered\r\nor which \"constructions sites\" exist\r\nand under which \"terms of use\" they stand\r\nthats how i imagined the 3D printer example ...buying printer, buying material, making a 3D model, printing & selling it all hooks into the \"terms of use\" of ppl already part of the \"unfinished supply chain\"\r\nthe accounting software we use is http://quickfile.co.uk (it's free and has an API)\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:03\r\n\r\n    So they would all like to host their own instance\r\n\r\nlike serving their own \"person\" or \"small business\" instance from their computer, or all together hosting?\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:03\r\nfrom their computers or rented hosting\r\nbut under their control\r\nso it should be trivially simple\r\nwe all will never have employees\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:03\r\nright\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:04\r\noh actually we will all have one employee\r\nourselves :stuck_out_tongue: ...as managing director :smiley:\r\n@ninabreznik and me will go to UK in fall to fix our employment status\r\nBob Haugen\r\n@bhaugen\r\n11:05\r\nWill the coding amigos work together on projects and share income and expenses etc?\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:05\r\nto finally be able to pay ourselves salary and dividends and are not anylonger in a legal grey area\r\nwe are not sure yet - for now we try to avoid common costs and common assets\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:05\r\nhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1S_OVoaEAYMrLjxVmdlmirXNxmPTy2ONY5slscEw2jtg/edit?usp=sharing\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:05\r\n...as long as we run into a use case that wont work without dealing with it\r\nWe have one such use case\r\nhttp://fairydust.agency\r\nit's co-owned by @ninabreznik and me\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:06\r\nlink above is a beginning idea for a \"Person App\"\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:06\r\nso we want to turn that into a UK Ltd. company\r\nand co-own it as share holders\r\nthrough our personal UK Ltd. companies\r\n....so all costs and profits would be split according to the shares\r\nbut, we did not go into detail yet\r\nGood thing: opening and maintaining a UK Ltd. can be done all online and costs 15 GBP a year\r\nso it's totally viable to open a seperate company for each app or business idea that is co-owned\r\nit's trivial and has no costs attached to report changes in the shareholder structure\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:08\r\nvalueflows is totally fine if you are a person or a UK Ltd company or whatever, all are vf:Agents and can do anything an agent can do\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:08\r\nThe UK has excellent support for all of this through their online government services (e.g. the companies house and the \"her majesties revenue and customs\" HMRC web apps)\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:08\r\nnice\r\nAlex, should we move to an issue to continue to explore so this doesn't get lost?\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:09\r\nThat sounds great. So what we hope for is an easy server that i can just npm install valueflows and then npm start and the server will run and have a web interface\r\nand hopefully an easy way to connect via API to services like our accounting service (http://quickfile.co.uk) or even the official government websites and our bank account\r\nwe are now using http://fire.com\r\nsure\r\nplease\r\n:grinning:\r\njust didnt know where to put all this\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:10\r\nno this is cool\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:10\r\nWe try to document our project\r\nso how to open the uk limited and what is necessary. which services to use (quickfile.co.uk, fire.com, etc...)\r\nand how to combine all this\r\nwe would like to make it a one-click-installer (maybe electron app) to manage hosting your own instance to run your own business\r\nand connect to others\r\nLynn Foster\r\n@fosterlynn\r\n11:11\r\nso, VF is vocabulary and protocols, not software - although we hope there will be lots of \"native\" VF apps, see here https://www.valueflo.ws/introduction/usedfor.html\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:12\r\nand have some kind of market place that gives you an overview over products and services offered by others and also \"construction sites\" (like what resoures exist under which terms and conditions so that you can start be a little \"entrepreneur\" (like the guy who printed and sold a 3D model in our past printer example)\r\nthat would be nice\r\nAlexander Praetorius\r\n@serapath\r\n11:13\r\nyay :grinning: so all this is the long term goal. it's easy to home brew our custom solution but it always faces the risk of \"code rott\" and it wont be build on top of a standard that many others can use too\r\nwhich is important to be able to connect.\r\nI'm personally always a bit reluctant to use rfd or something that is no JSON, but yeah - maybe... if i can use javascript implementations that manage that stuff in the background i might not be bothered with it so much\r\nand it probably creates some value"},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/valueflows/valueflows/issues/comments/308494471","html_url":"https://github.com/valueflows/valueflows/issues/228#issuecomment-308494471","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/valueflows/valueflows/issues/228","id":308494471,"user":{"login":"serapath","id":1771897,"avatar_url":"https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/1771897?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath","html_url":"https://github.com/serapath","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/serapath/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2017-06-14T16:59:56Z","updated_at":"2017-06-14T16:59:56Z","body":"**Our plan**\r\nWe will probably - over the next months or year - try to build an electron app with a little tray icon that allows a user to interact with a deamon and to deploy/manage a remote server that hosts \"the business server\"\r\nWhere \"the business server\" is something, that connects to the API of companies house or other UK government institutions and to the API of quickfile.co.uk and the API of fire.com in order to manage the company registration and filings, to manage the bank account and to manage the accounting software and invoicing. It will have a little dashboard to have an overview of whats going on\r\nwe will then try to figure out how to show an individuals products and services\r\n... and how to list resources/assets it has\r\n... and how to list all \"supply wishes/requests\" (kind of like job offers)\r\nThen other users, who manage their company through the same software can discover and connect, by either using offered products/services or to provide the \"supply requests\"\r\nOnce this is kind of working\r\nwe plan to add the \"holding\" feature so several ppl using the software can co-create new projects wrapped in it's own limited and then co-owning it through shares\r\n...this is roughly our plan\r\n\r\n"}}
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