{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/Kromster80/kam_remake/issues/265","repository_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/Kromster80/kam_remake","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/Kromster80/kam_remake/issues/265/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/Kromster80/kam_remake/issues/265/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/Kromster80/kam_remake/issues/265/events","html_url":"https://github.com/Kromster80/kam_remake/issues/265","id":208542143,"number":265,"title":"Iron ore mining time increasing with maximum 30%","user":{"login":"thunder6","id":11676710,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/11676710?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6","html_url":"https://github.com/thunder6","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[],"state":"open","locked":false,"assignee":null,"assignees":[],"milestone":null,"comments":3,"created_at":"2017-02-17T20:04:56Z","updated_at":"2017-02-18T11:21:37Z","closed_at":null,"body":"Hello!\r\nBalance case:\r\n**Increase ironore mining time with +20-30%**\r\n\r\nI think to you all read about this on forum. I collected some opinions and thoughts from former testers and better than average players. Well I use to get cold reactions some players see also what and why I recommend this change but the Mass PT army use to won. :S Use to won while the game balance is not perfect economicaly.  I spent time to make maps which have locations with only 2ironmine slots. I made a map where locations have 2-3-4-5 mines also(The Last Port). If somebody would compare performance strategies of these kind of locations TLP is a nice choice to check it.\r\nSo basicly spent time to research this.\r\n\r\nThere are many opinions and main research results.\r\nIt is long but I tried to summerize why I think it would be good for the game. Pros and cons at the end of the doc. The main reason of the change is the leather production has to catch the ironproduction much earlier than can do it now. \r\nhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1NLpXtiauzuhJ8mSq-paiirhTqzuclBNKlpOCha6k__U/edit\r\n\r\nHere is a shoutcast also (made by Ben) about a 2mines game. Interesting because in that game were lots of scouts without boosts. \r\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5z9QcsOqpg\r\n\r\nThank you to think on this!\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n"},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/Kromster80/kam_remake/issues/comments/280839290","html_url":"https://github.com/Kromster80/kam_remake/issues/265#issuecomment-280839290","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/Kromster80/kam_remake/issues/265","id":280839290,"user":{"login":"thunder6","id":11676710,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/11676710?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6","html_url":"https://github.com/thunder6","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/thunder6/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2017-02-18T11:21:37Z","updated_at":"2017-02-18T11:21:37Z","body":"I don't want to be pessimistic, but this game never be good on every PT. \r\nThe zero PT games are not popular because maybe because there is also one very effective strategy way. And playing always the very same way maybe is boring. Longer PT games can give more strategies, but those are not balanced well either so yes still one very effective building way is there. \r\nShould match the economic side to the power of the troops.\r\n\r\n\"You shouldn't decide by current popularity. \"\r\nTrue. These game modes (0-60) are played very rarely, If open remake will see mostly 90min++ with script games// Anytime. And can wait whole day for normal game without TS and friends and that still not guarantee game.\r\n\r\n\"You're wrong. Every pt is an option. \"\r\nmany cases have no sense for play in the curent release. It is not a star craft game. A minimum 45 minutes PT is recommended for a healthy game. Maybe should make votes about the prefered PT setting on facebook or forums to check it :S . 0,30,45,55,60,65,70,75,90,100,120. with question which is the most played by you? i'm almost sure over 90++ would be the winner,,,\r\nWe could discuss whole day all of the PT settings pros and cons, but there were more radical game changes which made this visible situation to this release.\r\n\r\nThe Remake already broke many original KAM TSK traditions or rules, and actualy did it always(?) on the right way, \r\nBut somehow the iron and leather production is switched in time, no risk to going to making iron production before 30mins. And it is why other strategies lost their real strenght. OKay the ironproduction is avaiable before leatherproduction, but on what costs?\r\n\r\nSo yes, strategicly there is this a problem. You have similar problem on low PT, me and some other player see kind of similar problem on higher PT.\r\nBut I can say different way to reflect the problem. Going for mass swordman +knights is much easier and cheaper than going for MASS Xbow+pike which still not guarantee can beat the swordman+knight combination. Compare a village with ~65 building with a village which has ~75buildings becuase going for MASS pikes or xbows need larger village and more citizens. Seems the diference is not to large but have to see that need more knowledge to build that than the Swordman+knights....\r\n\r\nWeaker food maybe could help on lower PT also(it is mentioned on the forum.net), but I prefer slowing down iron mining time. 20-30% is not a ridiculus changes but would make more variations avaiable on competitive level. \r\n\r\nAnd really sorry but I can not tell you when I played 0-30PT game last time. Maybe was it on Cube for fun without any fun....sad, but true.\r\n\r\nI know the trend of the game is be faster in time and there are many players who are forcing faster openings, faster buildings. (like skip the inn after the school and immediately open woodcutter+quarry or playing higher speed than 2*2* etc...) But sometimes it makes disasters. i accepted many of these changes hardly but said okay let it be.\r\n But I'm not blind to say NOT everything is OK. the game has one very effective building way and the reasons are known, only should match some values which not touched yet.\r\n\r\nSome offered solution:\r\n*Foods be weaker.- It can be a solution because the players would have to force the faster and more farms erlier than iron. Ironrush would get Hunger risk. As I know there were some hunger settings already. This would change radically the game. The players wood need new prebuilds and completly new thinking ways. It would not be popular either.\r\n\r\n*Slows donw the ironore mining time- It would touch mainly the produced iron ore only. An elegant and easy way to broke a traditional KAM TSK parameter to adjust this value to the other values which already were changed. This solution would not be popular either because the players like to start with mass iron after PT...But the leather get less focus because this mass iron...\r\n\r\nSo the problem is visible, but many of the former testers and players sit into this easy and comfortable situation. Players are afraid of the changes still if agree the problem is there...\r\n No scouts, no axefighters as main army...No reason to make them in early games...No real late games because mass knights use to can kill the bunch of mass bows...\r\n\r\nPersonaly, the game has less challange then it had before. Still the players going for games where the very mass spams are available shortly and easily and not need too much brain to build. I know and agree to hard to judge this. But as a mapmaker who always has long discussions  about the game, about the mechanisms, about maps(still discussion about not my maps also) about the actualities with much better player than me still can say should care with the economic balance much better...\r\nWith regards!\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n"}}
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