{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/pure-data/pure-data/issues/139","repository_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/pure-data/pure-data","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/pure-data/pure-data/issues/139/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/pure-data/pure-data/issues/139/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/pure-data/pure-data/issues/139/events","html_url":"https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/139","id":244981636,"number":139,"title":"Add \"~/Documents/Pd\" as a Standard Path for MacOS","user":{"login":"porres","id":5360142,"avatar_url":"https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/5360142?v=4","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres","html_url":"https://github.com/porres","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[],"state":"open","locked":false,"assignee":null,"assignees":[],"milestone":null,"comments":35,"created_at":"2017-07-24T06:18:00Z","updated_at":"2017-07-27T14:02:28Z","closed_at":null,"pull_request":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/pure-data/pure-data/pulls/139","html_url":"https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/139","diff_url":"https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/139.diff","patch_url":"https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/139.patch"},"body":"Hi, I Added a new standard path for mac os in **~/Documents/Pd**, but kept **~/Library/Pd** for backwards compatibility. I've tested it, and it works great.\r\n\r\nThis deals with inconveniences in managing/installing externals since OS X Lion (10.7, released in 2011), when the current standard user folder (**~/Library/Pd**) was hidden by default. This makes it really hard managing externals there. For example, if you want to add it to the preference=>Path, you can't navigate it there, unless you know it is a hidden folder and how to make it visible to you. But making the folder visible might be not desired, so another option is knowing how to get there and make aliases. As someone who's teaching Pd workshops, I can tell you that's always hard and confusing to students!\r\n\r\nAnother option could be to access all standard folders from the Pd interface, such as from the \"Path\" tab in preferences. though this wouldn't require \"hacks\", it'd be a much more complicated fix, which would require a big interface overhaul. But the solution here in this Pull request makes it easier and it's a very simple addition.\r\n\r\nThis is not something unprecedented in Pd. For other reasons and issues specific to linux users, the last update (Pd 0.47-1) added a new standard path for Linux, namely: **~/.local/lib/pd/extra**\r\n\r\nThis update to Mac Os has also been discussed in the Pd list after the release of Pd 0.47-1. I realized It is more common to install such files as addons/plugins in somewhere like **~/Documents**, this is where Max/MSP uses, for instance, to install externals. Processing also uses there for external addons.\r\n\r\nSo, there was no opposition in the list about this idea, and others have agreed with me in that discussion. For instance, @megrimm wrote:\r\n\"+1 on this... i just had a classroom of students navigate to **~/Library** and create\r\n**~/Library/Pd** .... its quite a pain to teach some of these basic skills. (...) \r\nBTW arduino and processing also both install libraries in: ~/Documents\"\r\nsource: https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2017-03/118277.html\r\n\r\nAnd @danomatika  wrote:\r\n\"I agree that something in the **~/Documents** would be more standard than anything in **~/Library** as that has been a hidden folder in Finder since OS X 10.7 or so as is not meant to be directly user-accessible. The preferences file, OTOH, should stay as that uses the same format & location that most macOS apps use.\"\r\nsource: https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2017-03/118278.html\r\n\r\nSo, I hope I've made a good case that we'd benefit a lot if we'd also change this in the next release, in the same way it was last changed in linux for the 0.47-1 release.\r\n\r\nthanks"},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/pure-data/pure-data/issues/comments/318371284","html_url":"https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/139#issuecomment-318371284","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/pure-data/pure-data/issues/139","id":318371284,"user":{"login":"porres","id":5360142,"avatar_url":"https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/5360142?v=4","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres","html_url":"https://github.com/porres","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/porres/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2017-07-27T14:02:28Z","updated_at":"2017-07-27T14:02:28Z","body":"> If this works as a middle ground, I can  make a proposal PR\r\n\r\nFor deken adding a path folder? It's cool but it'd still only be a \"path\" and not a \"standard path\" (which is special and I could develop how so if necessary). So about having a new \"standard path\" or not, I can only see the options:\r\n- A) \"do not add another one cause we think we shouldn't\"\r\n- B) \"add another standard path cause we think it'd be better\"\r\n\r\n> you seem to be making the case that we should simply forget about it, right? (...) I get the objection to this whole concept/idea. But not the objection to not change it.\r\n\r\nThere's also this idea I'm not sure it's being proposed to simply disconsider \"standard paths\". Though I said I \"get it\", it didn't seem a good idea to me. Now thinking throughly, seems counterproductive as it'd create more problems to deal with than anything else.\r\n\r\nIn short, \"standard paths\" are part of Pd's structure. That I can think of: \r\n1) - It's in the Path's preferences tab, as in the \"use standard paths\" check box option (checked by default); \r\n2) - Deken needs them and uses them to propose a default folder; \r\n3) - It's a flag in [declare] (namely: -stdpath / -stdlib) - this one I like use a lot, btw. \r\n\r\nSo maybe let's think about it first, and probably discuss with the community before deciding on this big overhaul. \r\n\r\n> It seemed the idea was that \"documents\" wouldn't be a place for such a thing, but @megrimm was able to show hard evidence that it would be.\r\n\r\nIs that the point? That there's no other proper \"standard path\"? Cause I really think we have a case here for what we propose. And I can remind the precedent of adding a new path for Linux in Pd-0.47-1 to point how things may change. So please reason with us why not to add a new path or this particular one.\r\n\r\nThanks"}}
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