I've heard over the past few weeks, when I've questioned Ministers on this issue, that they have made sure to introduce some checks so that fewer people are sanctioned and, therefore, we're starving out fewer people, but one sanction is one too many, particularly when there is no empirical evidence of a New Zealand welfare regime that includes sanctions supporting people into employment. All we've seen is a handful of overseas examples where maybe the sanctions regime helped, but all we know is that people are being put into hardship. I encourage all MPs in the House to talk to people on the benefit about their experiences with Work and Income, the threat that people are facing when it comes to that pressure of going to their appointments and knowing that, if they don't show up, they may have their benefit cut off. But we forget that, actually, this measure does not support our communities. Starving people out will not encourage them to show up at Work and Income to engage in services to see how they can meet their aspirations.