When we talk about debt, the greater the debt the less that we have as a country and pay for public services. So there is a clear correlation. You can spend today but you have to pay it back tomorrow. The correlation in regards to the fact that the more that that debt level is, the less that we have to spend on public services. And as a reality of that, this country, as a result of the increasing debt, is continuing to go backwards. That interest cost alone is just over $2,000 per annum for every Kiwi household. That is a heck of a lot of money. And that amount is only going to increase with the increasing interest rates, because that's based on an interest rate of around 2.8 percent. Well, I can tell you what. You can look in the back page of the Herald and the financial section and see what mortgage rates and interest rates are sitting at. Of course, the Government don't pay what you pay in terms of a mortgage, but you're absolutely going to see, probably, a 1, 2, potentially 3 percent increase in regards to that. That will all correlate in terms of pressure on the public purse, and it will all create pressure in terms of the affordability of paying for public services. That is what is coming down the track at the moment.