He then had his first serious interview, which was on Q+A with Jack Tame, and he wouldn't commit to anything. He said, "Well, you've got the job; what's your plan?" And he wouldn't give one, because he hasn't got one. So what did he say? By the end he was pinned as wanting to borrow less but spend more. It wasn't a very good start from the Leader of the Opposition, and maybe that's why, on his way into caucus—his first caucus as Leader of the Opposition—that he actually lost his way a bit. The mistakes that were made on the way into that caucus—look, I've never seen it. I've been here for a while. I was here when Don Brash took over the National Party. That was a time of real backbiting. There was real division within the National Party. We had our share of that when we were Opposition too—we've been through this. We came through it—we came through it very strongly, but you can see they're just at the start of this in the National Party, can't you?