Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member appears to have pored over words as if they are a trade-off. I've already rejected that premise. If you wish to debate the issue of gang-related crime in New Zealand, let's have that discussion. We all know the origins of that track well back from well beyond the last three years. This has been a consecutive years' worth of issue, exacerbated, unfortunately, by some of the decisions made by Australia to export their gang problem to New Zealand.