I want to specifically mention an interaction with the CEO of MSD. I rarely single out officials, but this is relevant to this bill and is on the public record, where the CEO of MSD was questioned about the long history of complaints against staff members in child protection units and was then presented with a list of perpetrators of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse spanning decades. Thousands of allegations, hundreds of complaints over the years, covering staff at multiple institutions. Her response was that the Ministry has better policies in place to tackle complaints now. Does that sound familiar to this conversation? However, she was then confronted with allegations of a man still working in a youth justice facility, with 26 allegations of abuse against him, the earliest from 2006, including three upheld complaints. She characterised this as hugely unfortunate, when asked whether it was a major failing of the system. In response to more detail, she said it's complex because it's an employment issue.