Hon WILLIE JACKSON: No, the embarrassment is the National Party and the people who want to lock up people for ever and a day. It's always, "Lock 'em up. Throw the key away, don't give a damn about the Māoris." Well, you see, the tribunal that Nick Smith chooses to ignore—the Waitangi Tribunal—has come out very clearly. Nick Smith's not interested in that because he's not interested in Māori rights. It's come out very clearly that this is a breach of the Treaty of Waitangi, but no one cares in National when they're in Opposition. In fact, they didn't even care when they were in Government. But the reality is here is that some of us who've had a lot to do with prisoners through the years, who've had gang members work for us at different times, believe in one thing, and that's that they have to be given an opportunity—they have to be given an opportunity.