Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): I would just encourage members to be careful when they talk about the breakdown in the relationship between the teaching profession and the Teaching Council because of the inherent assumption in that, that all of the teaching profession think the same when it comes to the Teaching Council, because they don't. As a result of this legislation, one of the things that we did do was actually talk to the profession about where some of the leadership functions that the council have at the moment should set, including considering whether, in fact, we should remove them completely. We received representations from the NZEI opposing that, from principal groups clearly opposing that, from advocates for Māori teachers opposing that, and about the only organisation in favour of that was the Post Primary Teachers' Association (PPTA). Now, I acknowledge the PPTA have opposed the council's existence in its current form from when it was introduced and when it was established in 2015, and that's a long-held in principle position by the PPTA, and I respect that position. I don't happen to agree with it, and all of those other organisations that I just mentioned also don't agree with that.