So for those who are watching this debate, listening to this debate, just remember that the statistics were going in the wrong direction pre-COVID. And so as a constructive Opposition, we will focus on the issues that matter. If you look at child poverty, for example, we talk about material hardship because those are the children who live in the worst conditions. And yes, we talk about jobs, because you are far more likely as a child to be living in material hardship if you are in a benefit-dependent home. If you want to talk about lifting incomes, you're earning three times as much in the minimum wage job as you are on the jobseeker benefit. 