Now, these fines are high. When you look at the range of fines that we can get for, for example, criminalised traffic offences, they are about $400 to $1,000. These are high, and in New Zealand, just to look at one of our biggest social problems, we are the second most incarcerated population per capita in the OECD. In New Zealand, people actually go to prison for unpaid fines. We actually have people being massively harmed in prison—we know that's what happens. We have their whānau and their community harmed for unpaid fines. 