SIMEON BROWN: That's what they said: increased participation, more students going to university, more students in tertiary education, and that this policy of paying for their first year, or giving them a free first year, was going to do that. Of course, the evidence that we've seen has been to the contrary. In fact, there's been a drop in the number of students participating in tertiary education over its first year. The data for the second year is, I don't believe, fully complete, but if the Minister of Education, the Hon Chris Hipkins, would like to take a call and enlighten the committee around what the 2019 figures were, that would be greatly appreciated. 