Hon JULIE ANNE GENTER: The way that you can reduce congestion—yes, you can do it through congestion pricing, Mr Court, and there are five to seven cities in the world that have implemented congestion charging. There are some commonalities amongst those cities—so Singapore, the City of London, Stockholm, Gothenburg, Milan; all of them had much higher investment in public transport before they went to congestion charging, so when they went to congestion charging, that infrastructure was already there and people could switch to it.