To just respond to the point that the member is trying to make, though, which is that she's trying to say that the number of people exiting benefit is less than those that have come on, well, that doesn't ring true when you look at the overall numbers, which were, in January, 390,000 and now sit at 360,000. So we have seen an actual reduction of New Zealanders on benefit, and the majority of those have exited off benefit because of employment.