For me, an important part of this whole kaupapa is wairua, it's our spirituality. It is my belief that our drive to be who we are, our sexuality, our gender, is part of our wairua, our spirituality, that comes to us from our ancestors, from our gods, the way that we experience them. For takatāpui, we know that our sexuality and our cultural connection is as important to us as our sexuality, as our gender identity, as our sex characteristics. The real issue around conversion therapies is (a) it's not good to tell someone that who they are is wrong, ever, in any context. What it does, though, is it takes something else that is a part of someone, their commitment to their religion, their spirituality, the way they experience that, and uses that against another part of themselves. That is the thing that our mental health system currently is nowhere close to being set up to help resolve. A shout-out to groups like OutLine, like all of the leading groups within our rainbow communities: Intersex Awareness New Zealand, Gender Minorities Aotearoa, InsideOUT, RainbowYOUTH, of course. It's left to the community to try and untangle those things, those hurts, and try and give healing.