Hon WILLIE JACKSON: What we're doing about it is working with them actively and supporting them in terms of strategies where they can attract people from our communities. It's not about us just punishing and being punitive with people, which is the National Party strategy. It's about working in tandem with the community and trying to upskill them, which we're doing through programmes like Mana in Mahi, He Poutama Rangatahi, and Māori trade training—programmes that the National Party never rolled out.