Like Mr Seymour, I was interested in Teanau Tuiono's comments about trusting the evidence of the experts. The plumbing analogy: I would have a slightly different take on it. It would be analogous to a qualified plumber coming in and fitting systems that had not been approved by any standards organisation, and everybody going, "Well, they're the experts. That's OK". Now, it is slightly different, but I think we should be healthily cautious about the expertise. 