But, looking back on it, that very same access—and I think of up around the Ōparara area. When you get to Karamea and someone tells you there's a very good place to go and see about an hour's drive from Karamea, you think, "Where can you drive for an hour from Karamea?", but if you ever get a chance to, go in and see the Ōparara arches, a wonderful area. If you were to have a look in there and see what happens as a result of the afforestation in there, probably you'd say it's a good thing, because you wouldn't get an access there had it not been for those good timber trails in there. That really comes to the point that getting the timber out is not that easy a job, and in doing so, from my experience of what I've seen over the years, there's considerable damage caused. 