Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: In answer to the first part of the member's question, absolutely, yes. In answer to the second part of the question, do I think that the elapsed time to achieve genuine pay equity is an acceptable one? No, I don't, at all. One of the things that I have been pushing as Minister for the Public Service is making sure that we are prioritising and properly resourcing pay equity claims so that we can actually get those settled. There is a significant financial cost involved in those, and over the next 18 months or so, I think members will see just the scale of the cost that's involved in settling those pay equity claims. But we need to think about that not just in terms of the cost but in terms of who is bearing the cost of that at the moment, which is that yes, that will be an increased cost to the taxpayer, but what that actually means is that the women of New Zealand are currently subsidising the operation of Government and public services by not being paid what they should be.