Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member well knows that we have a Public Finance Act reform process under way. At the moment that does not include a specific provision, as she has just articulated. But the conversation that the Treasury Secretary and myself have both begun is about talking about the place of debt targets and where debt sits in our overall work. What I would make sure that I assure the member, though, is I continue to believe that it is important for New Zealand to manage carefully its debt levels. We are a small country. We are prone to natural disasters. We often face the severe impacts of other financial shocks and so on. But I do think there is a valid conversation to be had about the place of public debt and how it supports New Zealand's resilience and wellbeing.