Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In order to be able to answer that very, very specific question, we would need to know a lot about the behaviour of Australians, and I would note, for the member's benefit, that for an Australian to travel to New Zealand right now, they require an exit visa, and so what we would have to know is just how many Australians would be prepared to go through the rigmarole of that; in return, in terms of the net benefit to New Zealand, how many New Zealanders would go to Australia. These are matters that are very difficult to quantify. Our premise is a principled one: that we will do this in the interests of New Zealanders and making sure that we have the right safeguards in place.