Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): I thank the member for ceding his time to me to be able to answer the questions. Firstly, in terms of the question around the counterfactual model—it's a very good question. Can I say that the model that we have landed on delivers the full range of benefits that I've spoken to and is fair. It delivers benefits to ratepayers; it ensures that there's a financially sustainable pathway to be able to invest in infrastructure for the long term, which is a huge challenge for councils; and it ensures that by removing debt and liability off the council's books and the Crown's books, we have these water service entities that have sufficient scale to be able to self-invest within this network.