KAREN CHHOUR (ACT): Well, I'd just like to let you know I have had the lived experience of growing up in a benefit household and also a household where, when it first started, we were working, and I can tell you that being in a benefit-dependent household is not all it's cracked up to be. I'm not saying single parents and people on a benefit are bad parents; I'm just saying it's a lot harder on a benefit to raise a child. So when you're having a child on a benefit, yes, it is hard. It is lower than the wage you get when you're working, and it's never going to be the same as a wage when you're working. 