The reality is that in the last 20 years, 24 councils have tried to establish or introduce Māori wards. What they've had to do is go out to their communities and consult. That's democracy at work. Out of those 24, two have ended up being successful, so that tells you that the communities, when democratically considering it, do not want separate Māori wards. Local government has complied with the rules in the Local Government Act. They consult with their communities, and they're the responses that they get. 