ERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): Thank you, Mr Chair. Leading on from that, it seems that the answer from the Minister in the chair, the Hon Eugenie Sage, is indicating that there has been some real to-ing and fro-ing between her and the Minister of Fisheries, and it seems that the Minister of Fisheries has won out, because we haven't had any new marine reserves in three years. But I guess the way that leads into my next question is that we've got 15,000, I think it is—if I remember correctly—seabirds dying every year, and I want to know what the Minister's opinion is on cameras on fishing boats, because I think that—