DAVID SEYMOUR: —in New Zealand, because it started off—I recommend to you, Madam Chair, James Belich's Paradise Reforged, where they talk about a bigger prism. This country was supposed to have 50 million New Zealanders, and that was the justification for building a railway line from the Bay of Islands to Southland. As it turned out, for a variety of reasons I don't have time to go into, the population growth did not arise, and New Zealanders ended up being a group of people scattered over 1,500 kilometres who, mainly, want to drive.