I'm interested to know whether he believes that the winter energy payment allows low-income people to genuinely meet the cost of living and if he believes that's why they were excluded—because the evidence tells us otherwise—and, if so, I simply do not understand how the fact that people on very low incomes who may get a top up but yet somehow are still struggling to survive are excluded from this payment that, while modest, will make a difference. For people on a main benefit, it is the difference between often surviving, like being able to keep a rental. For people on closer to $70k a year, it's a much different impact having an extra $350.