The truth is that if she'd gone out there, there would've been no violence, there would've been no threats. There would have been person after person, much as I saw myself when I did go out and walk around the streets of Broadway, Newmarket, and Mount Eden village, and Remuera village, places in the centre of the Auckland isthmus, where people are saying, "We're putting on a brave face behind the mask." They're putting on a brave face, but, if you look into their eyes, you can see people who are desperate, people who are frustrated, people who were borrowing money from relatives to keep their businesses afloat, people who've spent decades building up what they have and they've just run down all their capital and may be left with nothing at all. One woman came up to me, she was hesitant to talk, and then she said, "You know, the truth is we could have people over for a picnic. We did when it was first allowed, but there's nothing to talk about because nobody does anything."