In fact, Simon Upton argues that by allowing offsets in the way that we do in this legislation, arguably we are actually delaying the kind of change that the Minister's looking for. When we were talking before the dinner break about the high-emitting industries and the industrial allocations, that argument can be extended to other emitters who find by simply offering their customers or paying themselves for offsets, they don't make a change but go to bed at night feeling they've done good because a nice native tree has been planted somewhere in New Zealand. So I'm interested to hear the Minister's views on that in relation to this bill.