Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): I would simply point out to the member a couple of things. One is that centres at the moment apply for funding to build new early childhood centres without, in many cases, ever having applied for a licence. They don't apply for the licence until the centre is already finished. In fact, in one case, as the local member of Parliament, not as the Minister of Education, I attended the opening of a new early childhood centre in my own electorate only to discover that, in fact, at that point, the centre hadn't even applied for its licence. It's a very nice centre. It subsequently did apply for a licence. It's been a very popular centre, and is serving the local community very well, but that centre had gone all the way through the process of consenting, building, employing staff, and getting ready to go before they even applied for a licence. So the idea that there is less certainty now when centres are, basically, being given pre-approval of a licence before they go through that process is, I think, absurd. No banks submitted during the select committee process. No banks have raised this issue with the Ministry of Education, so I don't accept the assertion that the member makes, that this somehow is going to lead to less certainty.