CHRIS BISHOP: —blue-sky thinking sessions. Brainstorming sessions. Lots of that. That's all fine, keeps people employed and occupied. But that's actually not why we have MBIE. So I make the point: we're going to get rid of all these DHBs, and you could already see it coming through in stories from the health system, which is morale. That's the other big thing about change and managing change is that it affects people's morale. So all of a sudden, everyone who works in the health system is always looking over their shoulder going, "What's coming up behind me? What's this next change the Government's doing? Do I have a secure job in the next 12 months? What's my pay going to be like? Who am I going to work for? Who's my boss?"