The question here, as well, around the minimum family tax credit, the threshold amount, is that ultimately it provides OK incomes for some. We may be talking about people who don't want to go into paid employment, and that's used as a scapegoat by members to my right, but the truth is that the people who lose by having a policy that discriminates against unemployed people are the children of unemployed people. Why should we be punishing children because of a policy that has chosen to punish those that are unemployed? And those people that are unemployed, often it's not just because they want to be in that situation. Often there's just no employment that meets their aspirations. Often they're actually already doing meaningful productive labour in their communities, via caregiving, via volunteering, and we should be recognising that labour and valuing it as such. So the issue that we take with the minimum family tax credit is the fact that children and whānau who are living on income support ultimately are discriminated against, and those families deserve to have liveable incomes. 