Arguably, things have got worse. So what was the counterfactual on the Reserve Bank printing all that money and pushing down the Government's interest rate? Well, the counterfactual is that the Government would have had to be honest with the New Zealand people and say, "This money that we're borrowing has real cost to future generations because interest rates will rise and that's when you'll see how much it cost." And people would have seen in the 2020 election quite how much debt this Government was putting New Zealand into and quite what the effect on future generations would be, and we would have had a much more sceptical view of this Government's handling of COVID if we saw the real cost. But did we see that? No. That's the counterfactual. What actually happened is that we saw a Government that signed a deal with the Reserve Bank— the Minister says it should be independent—to print $53 billion that was loaned to the Government that reduced the Government's interest rate. As a result, this Government was able to borrow and spend and pretend that there was no tomorrow. 