So if the Minister's using as an excuse that we don't need to trade in animals that are live, but at the same time his excuse for that is "We can still get embryos; we can still get sperm", but at the same time his officials have effectively killed that market, how does he reconcile that? How does he explain it? The Minister knows what I'm talking about. He's had the correspondence that I've had from people in that sector who say they can't do it anymore. It would have been on his desk, and he's seen it. He has seen that; his officials have seen it. They can't in this House ignore it; they can't in this House say that's not true. There are officials here that have seen those letters. They actually made the policies that do it.