ERICA STANFORD: Yeah, here we go. Here's the interjection—and this is the whole reason that the Minister has tried to back out of how this is not his problem. Oh, it was something that the National Party did back in 2015; they didn't quite get the law right! Let me make it clear: this happened under his watch. Any good Minister with his finger on the pulse would have known what the Teaching Council were up to: building their empire; hiring more staff, increasing their staff costs from, what was it, $5 million in 2016 to over $8 million in 2020; not consulting properly with the sector; taking what was a triannual registration to a yearly registration, increasing teachers' costs. Any Minister with his finger on the pulse, if he knew what was going on, would have headed this off at the pass. And I say to whoever that member was that said, "Oh, it was a 2015 problem.": this happened under this Minister's watch because he didn't have his finger on the pulse.