Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): I respect Phil Ker, and I do recognise his considerable contribution to vocational education in New Zealand, and I respectfully disagree with him. I note that he was not a fan of the vocational education reforms from the beginning. The model of vocational education that we had in New Zealand wasn't sustainable, and it wasn't delivering the skills that our employers are crying out for. We hear examples of that every single day, with employers complaining that they cannot get access to the skilled labour that they need. That is a sign that our vocational education system has been under delivering for New Zealand for a long time—not to mention the fact that most of our polytechs were in a great degree of financial difficulty that was getting worse. I absolutely reject the assertion that additional funding hasn't gone to improving outcomes for learners, particularly coming from the National Party, who are arguing we're spending too much money.