I was part of the select committee process, and so I agreed that it was very important that we actually put examples in here about what conversion practice is. I look at key words like where a particular type of practice, a sustained effort, or treatment that uses shame or coercion because of same-sex attractions or non - gender-conforming behaviour, where gender orientation, gender identity, and gender expression are seen as a defect or a disorder, and where prayer, a deliverance, or an exorcism is used to change or suppress. I'm not sure how the law or the police can interpret that, or, if we're leaving it to the Human Rights Commission through their civil redress process, how they are meant to then interpret whether those things are happening and that people understand that they're happening because of reasons that are not defined in the law. 