PENNY SIMMONDS: Well, to me, that's what you do. You get your feet on the ground and you talk to the people and you find out what the issues are. So I couldn't convince the select committee to do that, but instead I took my 2020 colleagues from our National caucus and we went to Alexandra, because I knew that there are a lot of these water schemes in Alexandra. I'd had a look at them and I knew that we would get a really good feel for them. We went and listened to a gentleman there, an incredibly capable gentleman, who talked to us about the examples—took us up and showed us some of the examples. He is a fourth-generation farmer in that area. He's also a qualified engineer and had put in water schemes in Ireland and also in New Zealand and was responsible for two schemes in that Alexandra area.