So MPI needs to work with the environmental organisations that have got the data on this. And this bill needs to apply not just to timber products but to any forest products that are associated with illegal logging, because in a report that Greenpeace did last year—it was a very detailed report called Deceased estate: illegal palm oil wiping out Indonesia's national forest—Greenpeace has described the illegal palm oil plantations and their expansion into the rainforests in Indonesia's forest estate as, I quote, "the largest single cause of destruction of critical Indonesian rainforests over the last two decades." And who benefits from that encroachment? Not the forest, not the customary indigenous owners, but industrial agriculture in Aotearoa New Zealand and the New Zealand dairy industry. One of four palm oil producers with more than 50,000 hectares in the Indonesian national forest estate is Wilmar International, and it's a major importer of palm kernel expeller into New Zealand as a supplementary feed for the dairy industry. And, of course, Aotearoa is the world's largest importer of PKE, so we are directly involved in the destruction of rainforests. This bill will do nothing—nothing—to stop that. It will do nothing to stop the forest destruction caused by the illegal expansion of palm oil plantations. So that's where the bill needs to change, and if it changes there, then it would do something about protecting the 2,000 indigenous communities in the Indonesian rainforest. It would help protect the habitat of orang-utan, of elephants, and of the Sumatran tiger, and it would help reduce the climate pollution and the carbon loss from the land-use change involved in deforestation. 