CHRIS BISHOP: Well, that's a classic example of it—99 percent of freight in Northland, Mr Eagle, travels by road, as Matt King, I'm sure, will point out to the House. And why is that? The reason it travels by road is because it's fundamentally more economic to transport those goods by road. And my point, Dr Webb, is that if the people who transport goods around Northland want a rail service, they will be prepared to pay KiwiRail, through the charges that KiwiRail charges, to open those lines. That's the whole point of the economics of the system.