But I just want to run through a couple of the contributions that we've heard from the other side this afternoon, and the first one of those that I heard was from Duncan Webb. Duncan Webb, I thought, made an interesting contribution when he said "Forests are not the way to a carbon-free future."—forests are not the way to a carbon-free future. I thought to myself: well, tell that to Shane Jones. Tell that to Shane Jones who, as Minister of Forestry, has led an overseas investment on a scale that's unprecedented in terms of forestry investment to specifically invest solely in forests, for more forests in New Zealand. And I'd like to ask that member, and perhaps we can catch up afterwards about it, about what it is or why is it that he thinks that if forestry should not be the future for a carbon-free future, then why is it that we're seeing so much new forest go into places like the Wairarapa? Why are we seeing new forests go into places like Marlborough, where there has just been a sale recently for more forests to go into Marlborough?