Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think it is fair to say that the pandemic has had a major impact on the numbers of people that have come on to benefit. It's not the sole reason, though. As I've said in the House before, we do need to look at other figures rather than just the raw benefit numbers. If we look at the percentage of working-age population on benefit in December 2021, that was 11.7 percent. If we think about after the global financial crisis in December 2010, that was 13.1 percent.