But in terms of the merchant payment fees that the Minister talked about, I think it might be really important, particularly for people who watch Parliament TV and who are actually listening to this debate, is to perhaps actually talk about what this Retail Payment System Bill literally deals with. I think when we actually talk about the bank charges, a lot of people would have experienced in their time, when they're either using credit cards or EFTPOS, that there are some fees attached to the services that they are wanting to use. For example, particularly during COVID, people were not able to use the insert option for the EFTPOS terminal because they didn't want people to touch them, so the contactless payWave system was used and that actually incurred fees as well. So the high merchant services fee that the Minister actually talked about is the interchange portion, which is actually the biggest portion in the merchant service fee that customers are actually charged, which is often what the merchants, as in the shops that we go to, pass on, because it is the banks who actually charge these things to the merchants and the merchants basically pass it on to the customers. 