Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I agree with the Auditor-General, and similar concerns have been raised by the Tertiary Education Commission. Te Pūkenga has only been in existence for a relatively short period of time, and they have inherited a sector that was in a great deal of difficulty. So we do have to give them time and support to make sure they are getting to the bottom of the structural problems that they inherited from the 16 component organisations that make up Te Pūkenga to make sure we get the sector back into a viable state. I would note that they continue to deliver educational outcomes for their learners whilst they are undertaking this reform programme. In fact, there are some very good indicators there, including the fact that the number of people engaged in work-based learning, which now also comes under the Te Pūkenga umbrella, has been continuing to increase, including a 50 percent increase in the number of building and construction apprentices, for example.