Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The Minister interjects and says "Read the bill." I have. But what I ask of the Minister is was the law—because we can change all the laws we like, but, if the law as it was was not followed, do not pretend that we are going to the core and—excuse the pun—hitting our target of making sure we have reacted responsibly and properly to the awful tragedy that occurred in Christchurch. I find it appalling that 15 months after the tragedy, the Minister has ducked and dived, he has gone all around the circle, but he has not been prepared to answer that fundamental question, and it's simply this: who were the two referees that in November 2017 met the legal requirement for this madman to get a gun licence. 