The next mention where Lou Sanson is glowing is in an area where DOC had a very difficult relationship, he says, with farmers formerly—and he's referencing the Mackenzie Basin in the South Island—and he says it is remarkable how this project has coalesced now since the Department of Conservation and the local councils and iwi have all got together. Well, they forgot to ask the farmers what they thought, because those very high country farmers who either have tenure on the land, or land and free title—which is highly contested—they're not being asked. They're not being asked what's going on, they are not being included, and that is not a good way to treat stakeholders out in the world.