So what I think is that any Government's primary responsibility is to keep their people safe. That's their primary job, is to maybe stop them dying. So let's look at the facts: in the UK, 165,534 people have died with COVID-19 as the cause of death. If we do a little bit of basic maths and adjusting for population that would mean 12,353 New Zealanders would have COVID-19 on their death certificate as a cause of death. Now, the 35 that we've lost is a complete tragedy, and I'm never ever going to minimise the effect on their whānau or of the people who love them.