I'm a strong believer in the efficiency of markets, and I'm also a strong believer of internalising into economic transactions within those markets environmental externalities, and I've spent a fair bit of my life trying to achieve those ends. Sometimes it seems futile in the imperfections that we end up with in New Zealand, given compromises that are made either on the way through or by subsequent Governments that undo them. But one of the drivers of forestry for people that own land—and they're not all overseas owners; they're New Zealand owners, often—is that they're actually doing it for the money, because they can make more money out of forestry than they can alternative land uses. Well, that's how markets are meant to operate, including, particularly, the internalisation of environmental externalities that sometimes leads to that outcome.