Hon KIERAN McANULTY: I would define "ownership" much more accurately than the description the member has just given about the three waters reforms. This is a situation where without reform the ratepayers of this country will bear the full cost of $185 billion. That is $185 billion that individually they simply cannot find the resources to pay for it because of the debt caps that are imposed on councils. The restructure proposes a particular and deliberate structure that removes that potential, that future liability, from both the balance sheets of councils and of central government—and whilst doing so, retains ownership in the entities.