As I said before, this is the trade-off. We need to be much more careful about how we manage it and, of course, Grant Robertson loves to talk about the paradox of not being able to either spend more on good stuff or reduce debt. Actually, there are three choices in terms of managing the economy, and to reduce debt to prudent levels. The first choice is you can increase taxes and, gee, don't we know the Labour Government's good at that. You can increase taxes—that's one way of dealing with debt. The second way you can deal with debt is to make sure you don't do dumb spending and, unfortunately, the Government is great at dumb spending. I'll give you some examples: $280-per passenger subsidy on the Te Huia Hamilton to Auckland train service; $15 million on the road to zero advertising campaign; $20 million on the unnecessary Radio New Zealand / TVNZ merger; $51 million on the bike bridge. I can just go on. I have a list, Mr Speaker, of wasteful spending projects. I don't intend to go through that. But if the Government stopped doing dumb spending—that's how you reduce your operating losses at a Government level. 