Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, if the member wishes to have a conversation about improving the lot of children, we are here for that conversation. Let's get back to the fundamentals here: thousands of children are in State care, uplifts are traumatic, and we must stop children from being in circumstances where they are hurt and abused. The best thing we can do is start from preventing the need for them to be uplifted in the first place. If the member wants to discuss the best way to do that, let's hear it.