Hon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central): Just to make a few comments in response to the Minister's comments, and my colleague Shane Reti will, no doubt, have more to say on this, but the question that is asked of us and, I'm sure, of the Minister is, given that we are then going to be spending a whole lot of time on disruption of the personnel in tertiary institutions, the amount of money, and the fact that a lot of this reform hasn't occurred, it could be very much a hindrance on our ability to be focusing on the main task at hand, which is to upskill people, to ensure that they are studying, that they are in training, when we are focused on the reorganisation of assets and the creation of these workforce development councils. 