Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: —and the carnage that would cause—some of the epidemiologists who are quoted by the members opposite have argued exactly that—and it would do untold damage to New Zealand. Then, on the other hand, the next day we'll get a claim from the Opposition saying we're being too restrictive, we're not moving fast enough to open up to the rest of the world, we're not moving fast enough on the trans-Tasman bubble, and why weren't we opening up to China more quickly. It wasn't that long ago that they were arguing that.