NICOLA WILLIS (National): Well, that was an apologist speech from a Minister who knows that he is overseeing an explosion in the number of gang members in our country. He can claim that it doesn't matter if there are more people with patches on the street, that that's just what the media's focusing on, and we need to worry about something else. Well, I'll tell you, if we are walking down the street in Napier and we see a patched gang member—I'll tell you the effect that has on an everyday person, Stuart—it is intimidating, it is frightening, and it tells us that we're living in a community where people who snub their noses to the law can get away with it, and we don't like it.