Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No, I'm saying that KiwiSaver is for people's retirement. We should not be depleting that important resource for them. As some KiwiSaver providers themselves have pointed out, actually, what the member is proposing, from someone at the age of, say, 40, through to their retirement, actually represents more than a $60,000 loss. What I am saying is there are already forms of Government support that help people with start-ups—the cost of starting up, the cost of paying themselves and surviving while they start up, and the cost of advisory services. The member obviously hasn't looked at some of those packages that already exist.