Finally, just around the Minister's comments on the different models of early childhood education (ECE). We've got $9 billion in these Estimates going to ECE—$9.2 billion, I think—there's a requirement to pay more. The Minister's alluded to being possibly aware of a problem that some of the smaller-scale ECEs are less able to average out the unders and overs, as he calls them. I just wonder, is the Minister aware that there are smaller ECEs, some that have approached me, who said, "We can't make this work. The numbers will not add up for us based on the funding formula that we've been given, on the one hand, and the payment for staff that we're required to make on the other." They're between a rock and a hard place. They also said to me, "Actually, I happen to be from a relatively wealthy area where we probably can raise our rates, but in poorer areas we are going to have to either reduce our standards or close, which nobody wants."