Hon JAMES SHAW (Minister for Climate Change): Right, so just for the sake of clarity, it's an increase of 3c to 9c, right? My point was to illustrate the fact that during an economic downturn, when you have reduced demand, prices fall—statement of the blindingly obvious. But the point is that, in introducing change now—which is the central argument that the National Party has been making about this legislation—because prices have fallen so much, the cost, actually, is a lot lower. If COVID-19 hadn't continued—