Hon DAVID BENNETT (National—Hamilton East): That member just has made a lot of assumptions about what people want and believe. The reality is, if somebody commits a crime where they're put in imprisonment, they lose some rights, and one of those rights is the ability to vote. It's actually pretty hard to get to prison in New Zealand. Basically, you've got to be a large-scale offender or do a major crime, especially under this Government, where they let everybody out of jail and make sure that people don't get into jail. They've had a whole programme over the last three years of indicating to courts and to parole officials and other people in the criminal justice system that nobody should be in jail, because, in their belief, jails should not exist. The Minister even said that. He said that nobody should be in jail, with the Prime Minister, two years ago. They've followed that through. They do not actually believe—