DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT): Well, that was an extraordinary statement from the Minister we heard just a moment ago. He said that he takes an optimistic view of workplace relations, and I think that's certainly true. Optimistic—hopeful, perhaps. He said that he doesn't think that there would ever be discrimination based on people having dependants. Well, here's a bit of reality: the more laws the Government makes that entitle people to extra leave, the more expensive it is for employers to employ people who are more likely to take leave. If his view of human nature is really that no employer has ever looked at an employee and thought "Is this person more or less likely to take leave?", then, first of all, there's a whole range and manner of statistics in the employment literature he won't be able to explain, but also he's just out of touch with basic reality.