SIMON COURT: —that met ethical standards, Mr Brown, even though people are trialling these substances every day around New Zealand. I'm talking about a medical trial, a controlled trial that met ethical standards where doctors and scientists could test what is the safe level to take a substance that may one day well be therapeutic, like magic mushrooms or LSD, and then to operate a motor vehicle. The limit may well be zero. It may well be you can't take any of that and then drive, but we don't have any evidence.