Dr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei): Thank you, Madam Chair. The last point I want to talk to is fees-free, and clearly we've had issues with fees-free right from the very beginning. We just fail to believe that it is the correct tool to increase participation, which was the promise. We see less learners before than after, and we understand that that fits with the economic cycles, but the bare facts stand as they are. We have studies out of Canterbury, as I recall, where the vast number of students—94 percent—said fees-free wasn't critical for them actually attending university, and here we are now, where we're maybe going to increase our national public debt to maybe 50 percent of GDP, and the administrative cost to fees-free last year was $7.523 million, just administering fees-free. That's a lot of money for a programme that we're contending isn't doing the job and isn't the right lever for the outcome that was proposed. 