Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Of course, if the member goes back and looks at the statements I made when we launched the fees-free policy for the first year free, he will see that—the things the Government was talking about: breaking down barriers to participation to ensure that those who might not otherwise participate in tertiary education were able to do so; making sure that those who complete their tertiary studies have less debt at the end of their tertiary study, something that I know a lot of New Zealanders are anxious about—the level of indebtedness that our young people have when they complete their tertiary studies.