Hon JAMES SHAW (Minister of Climate Change): Thank you, Madam Chair. Clearly, no, it is not a tax; it is a market. The Hon Dr Nick Smith talked about and exchanged words with the Hon Dr David Clark about the debates that were had in the 2000s, when there was an attempt to introduce a carbon tax, which, because National pushed hard on it, said that "No, we wouldn't introduce a carbon tax as a country; we would, in fact, have an emissions trading scheme." So what we have is an emissions trading scheme (ETS) and not a carbon tax.