Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Again, I reject the premise of the member's question, and, in fact, it hasn't. But I would suggest that when he talks about bureaucrats, he might like to think about who he's talking about. It could be the thousand extra staff employed by the Ministry of Social Development to provide, among other things, the wage subsidy that kept hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders in jobs. It could be the extra 500-plus staff employed by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment to protect our border against COVID-19. It could be the more than 300 extra staff employed by the Ministry for Primary Industries to deal with Mycoplasma bovis, which is critical to our primary industries. It could be the extra 600 or so people employed by Oranga Tamariki, the vast majority of whom are social workers working with our most vulnerable children. Those are the sorts of people he's calling bureaucrats.