NICOLA WILLIS: Oh, Ayesha Verrall says, "No, that's not true. We haven't spoken of the virtue of gangs." Well, she needs to go back and listen to Duncan Webb equating people in poverty with people in gangs, and saying that those are the conditions that lead to gang membership. Well, Duncan Webb should treat people in poverty with more respect, because just because you're poor, it doesn't mean you think you need to commit crime to get ahead. Actually, the vast majority of people in limited material circumstances don't resort to crime and meth dealing and rape and assault and murder in order to further their own material circumstances. That's actually what gangs do, and to equate that behaviour with poverty is wrong and we do not support it. 