Many of my esteemed colleagues to my left and opposite have referred to those on the ground, those who have the reality of living in these situations, and it's that that we need to talk about. Our whānau haven't rocked up to the Work and Income New Zealand office and willingly said, "Put me on a benefit." These are whānau who have endured all sorts of situations from economic unemployment and redundancies to relationship issues, and we actually need to put faces to our people here. There are hundreds of thousands of our whānau living in poverty in Aotearoa, and material hardship is increasing. Around 200,000 tamariki are living in poverty. So it's really concerning when I see our colleagues to my right talking about giving Māori back our independence, especially when they're the first to shun mana motuhake the minute we mention it. 