NICOLA WILLIS (National): That was wholly unsatisfactory, but I'm going to move to a new track on State house building. The Minister repeatedly claims the Government will deliver 18,350 new public and transitional housing places by 2024. The Kāinga Ora Sustainability Financing Framework notes that 45,000 houses are due for renewal or replacement in the next 20 years. My question for the Minister is: how many houses will be demolished between now and 2024, and how many, therefore, will Kāinga Ora need to build in total to reach the 18,350 additional target, which the Minister repeatedly states?