The Government has put New Zealand so much further into debt because it has insisted on spending so much more money. It is now spending $127 billion a year; before COVID, $87 billion. And can the Minister ever explain what New Zealanders are getting for an extra $40 billion that they weren't getting when he was the finance Minister in 2019? I bet he could never explain that. So on the one hand, "COVID was fabulously managed and COVID's over now and everything is good.", on the other hand, it is now costing $40 billion to deliver the same stuff. Arguably, if you talk to people in health or education or any Government service today—at question time we heard the Defence Force has half of their people thinking of leaving. 