Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: When it comes to Pharmac, I stand by the fact that we have increased considerably the Pharmac budget since we have been in office. But to come back to the member's actual answer, I almost cannot believe in this House that we are now having a debate over whether or not our COVID response was worth the lives it saved—absolutely—and it will be up to that member to justify outside of this House why he believes that we can emerge from this crisis with one of the lowest rates of unemployment that we've seen, growth, solid export earnings for our exporters, and a COVID recovery economically that is solid and saved thousands of lives—and yet he would rather have seen death.