Hon Dr NICK SMITH: They are soft on crime and are soft on gangs and I invite the member that's interjected to look at what's going on in places like Hawke's Bay and look at what's going on in Tauranga. Even in my own community, I'm seeing the impacts of the Government's policy of not holding people to account for when they do bad or dumb stuff. I just say it's flawed. I say the view that you heard from Greg O'Connor represents Government policy, and that is, "Actually, we don't think that fines or penalties on people work." We've even got this Government saying that people that commit offences have got to have the freedom to vote, and I'm going to debate a bill on that.