Let's be honest, we think the Labour Government has not only engineered a cost of living crisis; they've engineered a dependency crisis that is the exact opposite of kindness and compassion. They don't care that they have written off and consigned a whole bunch of New Zealanders to a life that's just slightly better than poverty and subsistence. They've decided in their heads, with all their lovely white-collar backgrounds as academics and professional career politicians and union organisers, that somewhere between where they are and where the other jobs are there's a miraculous line that work below that level isn't worthwhile. I can tell you right now, we want people off welfare, getting into work, and we know why—because, when you get a job, when you get into work, you get a sense of self-worth; you get a sense of mastery; you get a feeling of control of your life. I have to say National is more aspirational for New Zealanders. We care deeply about all of this this; we care deeply about New Zealanders; we don't want them consigned for ever to be on welfare; we want them in work. We think that's dignity; we think that's the pathway that they need. 