So we're talking about the conversion of farmland, and this is the really gnarly issue. So colleagues of mine who know more about rural New Zealand than me—and that's most of them—have spoken with eloquence and passion, indeed, about the need to ensure that rural communities are well serviced by the activities that are taking place on the land that surrounds them, and indeed that they live on. Of course, forestry is one such activity; it's a legitimate thing in itself, it has benefits in terms of the environment, but also it comes at something of a cost and the cost is, obviously, not just in dollar terms. And if we're on that subject, cost can go the other way of course—we can actually actively make money from forestry, most obviously from wood products and so forth, but also of course the carbon aspect under the emissions trading scheme and so on. 