I think one of the interesting things when I read the media comments of shock and outrage about this from the member who's just resumed his seat is if he'd actually listened in the Estimates hearing, the chief executive of Kāinga Ora shared all this information with the committee. It was really clearly laid out in the conversation that we had, and so I was somewhat shocked to see the member's shock at that briefing as it came out, because clearly this was a piece of work that had been going on for some time. 