Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because, as the member will know, having worked across corrections, if you are seeking to reduce the prison population, that's often the equivalent of reducing recidivism. Many people in our prison population are circulating back through. So if you focus on rehabilitation programmes that make a difference—if you focus on having, as prisoners exit, work to ensure that they are in employment and those things which prevent reoffending—then you ultimately also reduce victimisation.