Here's another one that talks about the outcomes for children: "One in five children spend at least seven years of their childhood up to the age of 14 in households that rely on benefit income." As I said, if someone is in work, they'll be earning three times—it might be more than that now—what they'd be getting in a benefit. So how is that better for children? How is that better? No, no answer. No answer from the other side. 