Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: I respect the work that Dairy New Zealand do, and they have estimated that. I refer back to, I guess, the 1980s, when, in fact, we had 70 million sheep. We now have half that number, but we produce the same amount of sheep meat. The ability and the potential for New Zealand farmers in agribusiness to innovate and to achieve the targets and the ambitions is unlimited, in my view, and this target that we're setting, or that the Climate Change Commission will set, will take on board all the realities of the effect on local communities and the effect on the industries to achieve all the ambitions that we have of a low-emissions economy but a higher-returning agribusiness sector. 