GINNY ANDERSEN: Oh there you go, thank you. "Sending someone off to jail for their first shoplifting offence might make society feel good, but if that then sets them on a lifetime path of crime, then I don't think society has won out of the deal." That was by the former Minister of Justice the Hon Amy Adams in 2016. Here's another one: "Having sat through these panels, they are not soft on crime. The offender certainly has to pay the price." So it's great to know that there's agreement across the House on the fact that having a community response, having an offender work within their community to address the underlying issues of what is driving low-level offending, is actually how you drive transformational change within the justice system.