 Well, I guess it's a zero on both of them. All right. Well, thank you very much. I apologize. I apologize. I really wanted to make you happy, Jeff. Thank you, Jeff. Ingo died on 2013, didn't he? He did. Yep. January 31st. It's hard to believe it's been 11 years already. I know. It's amazing. Gosh, where does the time go? When he put his book together, Penetration, was he a believer in all these things?