 Yeah, some of our listeners know that Ron Diehl directs our Family Life Blended ministry and hosts our podcast for blended families. And today we're listening to a portion of an episode that Ron did with Jim Ramos, founder of Men in the Arena. And Jim's a friend of ours and endorsed his last book. I love all the stuff he does. And I didn't know a lot of the details of his life until we heard this interview.