 Oh, yeah. I had a course with him on Churchill. And I guess I am the chief one of his students who turned to Churchill. But there wasn't any reason. We used to press Churchill. Who's greater, Plato or Aristotle? Who's greater, Churchill or Lincoln? We just loved to ask questions like that. And he had a common thing he would say about it. He would say, if you look up into the high mountains, they're tops shrouded in clouds.