 Can you do this without the chakra at all, without the pineal gland at all? In other words, if the mind can have these experiences, like if you have an out-of-body experience or a near-death experience, you can perceive the universe without the physical there. In fact, you're observing usually your own body as you're looking. If you're standing outside your body, looking down at your body, how can you have that experience if you're depending on your physiology for it?