 who's really emphasized self-reliance and not negotiating to lift sanctions, but neutralizing sanctions. Zina Tusi is a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy. Thank you so much for your time and your insights. Thank you. If you think about snorkeling, you probably think about a coral reef or the ocean. Well, how about a river in the southern Appalachian Mountains? Paul Garber of member station WFDD takes us on a not-so-deep dive along the Blue Ridge snorkel trail.