 It lasted two, two and a half hours, the reason being the questions that he had and me trying to explain to him what we were trying to do as far as creating a strategy, a solution for his retirement. As we went through it, of course, I've done this for 22 years now, and I'm watching his face, and that's one thing I do, and I see he's lost several times because we're talking of things he's never heard of before.