 my experience, um, by that point I was, uh, I was really getting into traditional rock climbing. I was also training in Kung Fu and people considered that I had a warrior spirit and I was like, okay, I mean, after working with true warriors, I realized that those guys were the warriors. I was just, you know, crawling on rocks and like whipping around a pole and stuff like that. But, um, she told me there was a two people. One of them was Annie Oakland.