 And, Mark, if you're our age, maybe you remember holding the cover art in your hands while you listened to the music. And these images of Bruce and what he represents, they just get seared in your mind. Yeah, I think for a lot of people, Springsteen is kind of as much of an idea, like an ideal maybe even, as he is a person. Absolutely. But what is that idea? Our next two guests would argue that it can be whatever you need it to be.