 So those would be the kinds of things that would come out of the classroom, lunch table, cafeteria, conversations. We'd watch Bengals games at a local bar. That would be a time to kind of catch up on whatever was on our minds in a bigger way. Our families had become good friends as well because his wife was also our classmate in law school. And my wife went to Yale for undergrad, and she went there for med school and lived in the same kind of college as his wife did or something like this. So a lot of connections going back a long time. Our kids are about the same age. They've been very gracious, actually.