 But then there's also the things that they had to do while being these sort of street-level, small-time, point-to-point smugglers that were paid, as you say, very little for what they did. I mean, it's not all just holding migrants by the hand and taking them through the jungle to the next point. I mean, when they unburdened themselves to you, Professor DeLeon, did any of them talk about having done things to migrants that they regretted?