 The hope is that they'll get to where they need to go, but it could be that they get double-crossed at the end. And that happens a lot, and people don't want to admit to that oftentimes when you ask them about it, but you can definitely see it. But most of the violence that smugglers talked about when I would ask those kinds of questions, they didn't necessarily want to admit that they were doing stuff to migrants, even if I knew they were.