 But the debate has also led to some concern overall for the country. Phil Boas, columnist for the Arizona Republic, wrote about the future of American leadership in the current climate. He joins me along with Elvia Diaz, editorial page editor at the Republic, to talk about this. And Phil, let me start with you about the column you wrote. And you looked at the debate through the lens of what it meant for the country. And in your mind, it was not necessarily such a good thing.