 I don't know that he did and I don't know that he didn't. But, you know, people back then just don't tell you their business. But he doesn't own them anymore. He let them all go. So my belief is that he didn't do real well with them. In fact, I think he's told me the story before and he did well for a while and then didn't and so on and so forth. So it was up and down type of thing. But the bottom line is, is that he experimented.