 and is a good person morally, she has no more left the church than I have. But what she's talking about is the organization which she found abhorrent for some reason or other. And of course, if she had said to me, no, I practice Wicca, and I worship the devil, or I worship idols, or I worship this world, and no, I don't have any belief or attachment to the Lord Jesus, or to, as you call him, or the Virgin Mary or the angels, that would be a different story. But...