 What was the differences between working for the two men? Oh, my God. Oscar and Felix? I don't know. Should we call them that? You know, I think the thing of the perception, this goes to kind of our early meetings with him, is the perception of President Obama is often that he is like this massive extrovert, right? Because he's such a brilliant orator. I mean, the speech he gave at the convention is still the best one ever. I challenge anyone to do a better one.