 and look at the whole idea of what they're doing. They didn't have rhetoric in school the same as we didn't go to school, as Charlie Parker didn't go to school to study music, or John Coltrane, or Dizzy Gillespie, all the people we know, or Louis Armstrong. So they're all part of the same continuum. It's like taking the least and making something out of it. It's what we've always had to do. And it personifies the genius of black folks in this country, creative genius, that is.