 The odds are against you, right? They don't, I mean, they, you know, the system doesn't want that. So it's always a challenge. So when new technology and new things like podcasts, no, he was totally supportive of it and thought it was good. Again, we all have to figure out all these different trade-offs and challenges and whatever. And it's a tough road, I think. And pretty amazing when I look back at it.