 it's totally non-hierarchical right so everybody helps everybody everybody has to support for everyone else it happens in real time so it's not like you message some group with your trauma and then you never hear back and that's kind of an awful experience and unlike the kinds of one-offs that you get if you call hotline it's this group might meet over several weeks or several months or in some cases whitman walker told us groups have met for years and they've developed an enormous amount of trust