 forces, Americans, Canadians, Europeans, Australians, struggling with, do we want design? And if we do, how do we want it? And it's too disruptive. Tone it down, put it in doctrine. No, no, get a small cell, have them do this crazy stuff, but then keep them away from everyone else. And that becomes a significant tension that's still unfolding today with how military design is a small minority movement, if you will, within the defense industry and defense institution on how they're dealing with change.