 Cliff Thornton crops up in that book, and he's still at it all these years later. An amazing, amazing guy who helped me through a lot of misconceptions and kept me on the straight and narrow, for sure. But they're all over the place, and some of them are, they're mostly guys, but there's women, there's Polynesians, there's, of course, there's anthropologists, archaeologists, maritime historians, all sorts of people who are members of this