 Yeah, before starting this book project, I did a big reporting project on meditation, and it was kind of the same thing. Neurobiologists, people who studied the brain, anyone who was working in a meditation lab looking at the physiological effects of meditation, several people I spoke to stumbled into this as PhD researchers, were not meditators, and then saw the proof and just became meditators and got, you know. So there are these things that do cross between those two realms, and in botany,