 and blindly assuming, well, maybe somehow it'll fix itself. It won't. What is the tipping point? How much debt is too much debt? I don't know. It's too much now because it's continuing to go up. If they can stabilize it, that would be fine. I'd like to get to a point where the revenue that's coming in exceeds the expenses that are going out. So if you don't want to pay down debt,