 And there was an interview yesterday in which President Volodymyr Zelensky talked about the sense that he has that Ukraine and the West have different understandings of what victory means. Can you give us a sense of what you see as victory, what the NATO alliance is prepared to commit to do in terms of ensuring that there is in fact a victory in Ukraine that preserves Ukrainian sovereignty and that positions the West in an advantageous way vis-a-vis Russia?