 So I, when I, I, you know, I was at, I met her at an AWP and, um, Ellen Brian Voight had introduced me to her. And, um, you know, when I was talking to Carol, you know, she says the thing that the editors say, Oh, you should send me some of your work sometime. And I said, okay. You know, thinking like, there's no way she's going to look at my work. And then, um, Ellen put her hand on my shoulder. She says, no, seriously, send her your work. And so I did. And, um,