 they coexist there there's no fine lines between them it all melts together so i you know as i was coming up as a youth i didn't say like oh i'm in this african spirituality and it's something different and it's no it was integrated into my experience it was a part of my my day-to-day um and that that's how it is for for many african spirituality practitioners you know the supernatural is right there butted up against the natural and like like baba said it's hard to pinpoint it because it's just it's just a part of our experience