 With all the riders, the mortality and expense, the admin fees, I mean, they stack up. Okay. So that's where they gain. So even if you make some tax deferred growth, about 2% or 3% of that could go toward expenses. Absolutely. That's a lot of money. It is. It is. And the other side of things, Tom, too, most folks, when they're looking at annuities, they don't want market risk.