 but joe biden fit that mold that uh... that old uh... you know white haired you know comes across as the elder statesman i was vice president that was senator for half uh... a century et cetera et cetera where people you know can relate and he had uh... degree of retail uh... politics to him where he was used to getting uh... into trouble in getting himself out of it using this chart so that made him a good retail politician