 and they would try to make them profitable so they could sell them or profitable to keep them. He said at that time, we're talking about the 1970s, really, he called it I Travel and Talk, not International Telephone and Telegraph. And he said the same thing, that the smart companies, they have employees or they hire lobbyists that will befriend the Republicans and also somebody who will befriend the Democrats. He said that's what the smart ones do.