 What's your household income? We make around $140 combined before taxes. And your question is simply how to start the baby steps? Yes. Okay. We get on an every-dollar budget. You and your wife are in agreement that we're going to get out of debt, and we're going to sacrifice to do that, because if you didn't have any of these payments, you'd have a lot of money. Agreed? Exactly. And that's the whole idea. And so do you have any savings that's not in retirement? No.