 Yes, sir. Let's say you could get a 4.5%. That's a 2% spread. And let's say you got $200,000 by then still outstanding. So 2% of $200,000 would be $4,000 a year you would save. Right? Okay. And if your refinance cost is $8,000, how long at $4,000 a year savings does it take to break even? Two years. If you're going to be in debt long enough to break even, then you would talk about refinancing.