 sometimes consolidation can feel like the solution is like, okay, we took two things and we turned it down to one. Just transferring from one place to another using different types of debt. It sounds good on paper, and then the same people will call us back and say, hey, I did a 0% transfer balance on the credit card to this one. I did a personal loan. I did a HELOC because the interest rate. And that's never the solution. We have to get at the real heart of the issue, which is the person in the mirror, not the interest rate.